From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Jan 14 10:28:49 2001 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06275 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:28:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01961 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200101141531.KAA01961@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 10:31:39 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0002D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 106429 Lines: 2237 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:30:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Formic Acid Gel Packs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Formic acid use has only been made legal since Betterbee was able to pack it as a gel, known as Apicure. None of that has been shipped yet. The first shipments are supposed to be made in March. Maybe the bee supply house that you mentioned is telling false tales about Apicure because they DON'T sell it. I suggest you check. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 16:06:06 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bienendude@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Beekeeping Association Subscriptions. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/18/00 10:17:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, beeman@BEEMAN.FREE-ONLINE.CO.UK writes: << Dear all, I am researching the cost of being a member of Local Beekeeping Associations. (Not National ones) Primarily, I am interested in British ones, but any information from elsewhere, gratefully received. Of further interest, is what do you get, in return for your money? Members nights, lectures, demonstrations, loan of equipment, loan of bees, club apiaries etc. If there is sufficient information I will endeavour to do a small breakdown and post it. Many thanks in advance. Pete. >> Our Sonoma County (CA, USA) Beekeeper's Association meets monthly. $12 annual dues for singles, 18$ for couples, $6 each for additional family members. Paid dues entitle members to monthly newsletter (the Extractor), placement on the annual swarm list, voting priveleges, free use of library books & videos, & use of extracting equipment. Meetings are 2 hours long and usually at least 1 hour is devoted to an informative program, usually a topic of seasonal concern. The SCBA is involved in local agriculture, education and fairs. We have approximately 65 paid members and an attendance of 35. Anyone is welcome to attend the meetings. Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:00:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Formic Acid Gel Packs In-Reply-To: <200002201618.LAA19923@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There has been some discussion here recently on Formic Acid. I heard (from > one of the bee supply companies) that the formic acid gel packs were not > really reliable yet... I live in Florida... Does anyone here have experience with the new gel packs? I realise you are probably hoping to hear direct from a Florida beekeeper here, but there is quite a bit about formic and release rates, etc. in our archives. As for the Florida experience, Betterbee Bob wrote the following right here, just the other day: "We are still working on the California registration, but with the state bee inspectors working against us in Florida, we may withdraw the Florida application". So, you may not have to worry about formic in your hives, unless you start pushing hard for it to be approved. For those who need to get up to speed on formic now that it is legal in one form, at least, in some of the USA, I recommend going to http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ and searching the BEE-L archive, using 'formic' as a key. Or you can chose the 'Varroa & Formic Acid' link from the menu on the above page, where you will find enough links and info to keep you reading for weeks. Other search variations are 'formic AND gel', and 'formic AND Florida'. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:21:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: granny1897 Subject: Re: Liquid Smoke I've tried it, and found it ineffective. Would anyone like to buy a nearly-full quart of concentrate? W. T. Weller -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hoare To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:25 PM Subject: Liquid Smoke > but nevertheless will test Liquid Smoke myself. It would be >interesting to know whether others that have used this substance feel the >same as you. > >Ken Hoare Shropshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:16:37 -0500 Reply-To: Honeybees@inorbit.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: FW: Organic bees?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, I received the following email today and was wondering if Someone could provide the answers ? I had heard of a university researching the use of bees to spread a fungus preventative, but nothing in more than a year. Thanks in advance. Garry Libby Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA Hey, Guys: I've got questions for you. A local farmer wants to certify his strawberry field as organic, and can do that if he uses bees to carry some kind of yeast to the strawberries. That's all I know right now, but I intend to find out more soon. Do you know anything about this since you work Ward's fields? Also, do any of the chemicals/antibiotics used in the hive jeopardize his organic certification? Thanks for any help! igor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:15:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: Human problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al wrote: > > I went out and checked one of my yards today. The "rednecks" had been in > it and made a mess. Three hives had been knocked over using fallen pine > branches and then an attempt was made to set the hives on fire! The fire > must have driven the bees out and run off the vandals as the fire went > out before destroying all of the equipment. Several frames were burned and > most of the boxes were broken. One swarm of bees in the top of oak tree, > but out of reach. > > The yard was out of sight and hard to get at, past a locked gate and a way > down a dirt road. Having found a "live" shot-gun shell near by, the yard > may have been found by "hunters". They may have crossed the nearby river > and walked up. Hey "Al", (or should I say Mr Holmes) You described the action of "trespassers" and "vandals", not "hunters" and "rednecks". How do you know they aren't a bunch of 17yr old green haired "punks"? "Hunters" and "rednecks" don't destroy property for entertainment, "vandals" do. You say they may have crossed the river, but you didn't mention a bridge. Could this be a senseless attack by "anglers"? Do I make light of property damage? No. But check your use of labels for accuracy - please. Some of us rednecks are alright kinda guys and we might even bring ya a squirrel or rabbit. > > When visiting out yards use caution! I would have hated to think what > could have happened if I had come around the corner while this was in > progress! I have suggestions for a chance encounters with these idiots. But, you probably have labels for "that kind of person", so I'll just shut up. AL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:30:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Coumaphos and comb honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It seemed like Al's post and Lloyd's subsequent post on Coumaphos were worth checking out. In checking the Federal register for the years 1997-2000, many hits relating to coumaphos were returned. The matter on its use on beehives comes up numerous times in Federal Register: January 24, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 15), Notices, Pages 2699-3709. The contact person repeatedly cited is Barbara Madden. Some surprising things concerning coumaphos came up, like this one in FR VOL 64, No 147, Monday August 2, 1999. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY [OPP–36194; FRL–6097–3] Organophosphate Pesticide Tolerances-No Finite Residues Considered to be Reassessed By EPA AGENCY: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). ACTION: Notice. SUMMARY: This notice announces that EPA is considering as reassessed 80 meat, milk, poultry, and egg (MMPE) tolerances. These MMPE tolerances are for residues of azinphos-methyl, coumaphos, fenthion, isofenphos, methidathion, naled, phorate, and profenophos. The Agency has evaluated 105 MMPE tolerances listed in the table in this Notice and has concluded that there are no reasonable expectations of finite pesticide residues in or on meat, milk, poultry, or eggs for the listed organophosphate pesticides. Since 25 of these tolerances were previously reassessed by final rule revocation in the Federal Register, 80 of the 105 tolerances are counted here as reassessments made toward the August 1999 review deadline of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) section 408(q), as amended by the Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA) of 1996. EPA will propose a rule to revoke these 80 reassessed MMPE tolerances in a subsequent Federal Register notice. Elsewhere in EPA documentation, feeding coumaphos to chickens to rid them of parasites was mentioned. My appetite for some of my favorite foods is waning. The coumaphos label from 1999 does not specifically address comb honey. The Federal Register is where an ultra dutiful legalistic citizen might search for some new and wonderful regulation applying to him. Searching the FR for "honey" showed no rulemaking relating to comb honey, and searching for "comb honey" returned only entries relating to honey in general. The EPA web site is shut down due to the hacker scare. The search also produced a warning to the effect that the FR is being reindexed, so the search engine may not find everything. Sometimes overzealous local offices of bureaucracies, sometimes staffed by people who got into that line of work because of a personal agenda, get out of line. Perhaps that's what is happening. Meanwhile, the regulation that can't be found in the proper places for a regulation probably isn't a regulation. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:29:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jay Mowat Subject: Bees and landmines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This from Associated Press today: AM-Scenting-Landmines 123 21-02 0498 AM-Scenting-Landmines code:2 INDEX: International, Defence, Technology Scientists all abuzz about prospects for tiny mine-detectors WASHINGTON (AP) -- Scientists are investigating the keen senses of honeybees and other insects as a possible way to detect landmines. Honeybees have such an exquisite sense of smell they can detect the vapour that wafts from the ground from the explosives in buried landmines. Traces of the chemicals are then carried by the bee back to its hive. Jerry Bromenshenk, speaking at the national meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, said Monday researchers now hope to exploit this remarkable talent of the honeybee to identify areas that have been mined and perhaps even pinpoint individual mines. "Honeybees can pick up traces of all sorts of contaminants," said Bromenshenk, a researcher at the University of Montana in Missoula. "Our studies have shown that they can distinguish individual explosive compounds." The trick, he said, is getting this information from the bees. Under a contract with the U.S. army, Bromenshenk and a group of researchers have already shown by putting sensors inside beehives they can tell if a bee foraging in the field has detected an explosive compound and carried traces of it back to the hive. The next step is to follow the bee back to the place where it found the explosive. Bromenshenk said his group has developed tiny antennae that can be placed on individual bees, allowing them to be tracked electronically as far as 275 metres from the hive. For now, the antennae are too large to be practical but the scientists are working on a radio frequency chip that could be quickly glued on and easily carried by the insect. Researchers are also trying to exploit the keen senses of cockroaches and wasps to detect landmines, said Bromenshenk. The bees also are being trained to seek out the distinctive odour of explosives. "They are easy to train," said Bromenshenk, adding all that's needed is to give the insect a sugar water reward for flying to the target and returning the hive. He said it is clear a hive of bees could be used to detect the presence of explosives in an area of about 2.5 square kilometres. Using a series of electronically equipped hives, he said it would be possible to narrow down the presence of mines to an area the size of a room. "Whether or not they can be used to pinpoint the explosive is still an open question," he said. Current land-mine-removal systems use metal-detectors to locate the mines. Clearing teams then must use sharp sticks to investigate the buried object that triggered the metal detector. This is extremely tedious work because the metal detectors give scores of false alarms for every mine detected -- and each false alarm can cost the mine clearing teams about 10 minutes to investigate. CP 2052ES 21-02-00 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:48:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Gaucho and effects on Honeybee populations Comments: cc: "BEE-LMOD (E-mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by MNASR@EVBHORT.UOGUELPH.CA to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ------------ Original message (ID=49622FA8) (73 lines) ------------------- From: "Medhat Nasr" Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture To: peter dillon , BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:27:22 EDT Hello Peter, This product (Gaucho) has been approved in Canada this year. It will be used for the first time on Canola this year, 2000. It will be interesting to see what is goning to happen to our bees. Bayer says that Gaucho did not cause the problem in France. It could be something else!! Beekeepers should keep open eyes and watch what is going to happen to their bees. Medhat Nasr > I would be most grateful if anybody has any info. on bee colonies before, > during and after field contact with the molecule IMIDACLOPRIDE - as found > in the systemic seed treatment product "Gaucho"(Bayer).... > Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Ontario Beekeepers' Association Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Tel: (519) 824-4120 Fax:(519)837-0442 e-mail: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:29:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: FLAX (LINSEED) AND BEES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is becoming popular in my area. I am told that the bees work it in the mornings as the flowers cease to yield nectar in the afternoon. The honey is said to be the colour and consistency of lard and very bland. Hope this helps. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:15:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Subscriptions Dorchester & Weymouth BKA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Further to my previous post, 2 hours ago D & W BKA dramatically added value to its members subscriptions by deciding to pay for their first attempt at all the BBKA exams. If all members take up the offer we will be bankrupt, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:45:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: hive beetle website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://everest.ento.vt.edu/~fell/apiculture/hivebeetle/index.html I found this site to be a good source of information. Vivian Arlington, Va ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:44:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Gaucho and effects on Honeybee populations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Medhat wrote: >This product (Gaucho) has been approved in Canada this year. It will be >used for the first time on Canola this year, 2000. It is my understanding that the pesticide "Admire" is also imidacloprid. This has been used on potatoes in Prince Edward Island (Canada) for three or four years now. But bees do not visit potato flowers, and they do visit canola and sunflowers. Here in PEI our beekeeping association has asked members to be on the lookout for kills resulting from bees drinking contaminated water in the drills. So far no one has reported anything. The following is quoted from an exchange on the bombus-l in 1996: From: wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu (Whitney S. Cranshaw) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 06:16:19 -0700 In response to: > > We have made observations on the reaction of the bumblebees and also > checked concentrations of the substance in different parts of the > plants. We found that for several weeks after application of > imidacloprid, significant levels found in the plants. Moreover, > concentrations in the flowers were tenfold higher that in other > parts of the plant. > Fascinating. This is absolutely a first, where an insecticide is concentrated in flowers. With other insecticides, the fruit and flower are a major barrier to insecticide translocation. > > The most significant reaction of the bees was to avoid the flower. > We could observe workers attempts to visit flowers, but when coming > into close range (1-3 cm. from the flower) they stopped and taken > aback. This response lasted for 2-6 (six) weeks after usage of the > imidacloprid. > Again, such a response to an insecticide, i.e., a long distance repellency (1-3 cm) is absolutely unique. Although some insecticides (e.g., pyrethroids) are known repellents on contact, imidacloprid has never been demonstrated to be repellent - much less show repellency beyond the surface. end of quote The observer was a company that raises bumblebees in Israel and uses them for pollinating tomatoes (which are sprayed with Imidacloprid). I might add that I have made the observation on three separate occassions that bees that are put in blueberry fields that have been sprayed with the new formulation of carbaryl (Sevin XT? or some such thing; supposed to be harder to get carried back to the hives in pollen) will NOT work those fields, and the effect (residual smell?) lasts for at least a week. I don't blame them at all, but it is hard on their pollinating ability reputation as the pesticide company and government agriculture extension people seem to deny to the growers that the pesticide has this effect. It is very frustrating to me, because it is not a difficult scientific observation: Next to no bees were in sprayed areas; there was normal foraging outside those areas in same crop. Once I put down square metre frames and counted them; there were about five times the bees in the unsprayed crop. Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:19:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Gravel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have opened a beekeeping club on yahoo and I invite you all to j oin the club. What you need to do is get a Yahoo Email account which is free and go to http://www.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/generalbeekeeping and click on j oin button. Have fun ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:21:35 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lars Hansen Subject: Tri-Bio-System? The Tri-Bio-System - of German origin? - is beeing promoted here in Denmark right now. Seems to be a 3-family-in-1-hive system. Does anyone (for example the German Bee-L-ers) have practical experience with it? Or comments? Tried the Bee-L archives and the web without luck. Lars Hansen in Denmark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:19:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lars Hansen Subject: Research on oxalic acid Beekeepers interested in the use/not use of oxalic acid might have a look at the work of Danish scientists on the site below belonging to a branch of the Danish Department of Agriculture. The site is in danish, but the article is in english :-) You have to subscribe to look at all the pages, but the article is freely available by following this procedure: 1 - go to www.planteinfo.dk 2 - click the grey button with PL@NTEINFO DIREKTE written on it 3 - click the link SYSTEMER in the left frame 4 - click the link BIAVL in the left frame (biavl is beekeeping) 5 - click the link OXALSYRE in the right frame This will lead You to an article - about the subject. I think You will find it interesting. Kind regards, Lars Hansen Denmark ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:03:51 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Re: Beekeeping Association Subscriptions. In-Reply-To: <200002181817.NAA18216@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <200002181817.NAA18216@listserv.albany.edu>, Peter R Watt writes >Dear all, >I am researching the cost of being a member of Local Beekeeping >Associations. (Not National ones) Harrogate and Ripon Beekeepers Association is affiliated directly to the British Beekeeping Association. The annual subscription is 12 UK pounds which provides the following benefits: -Third party/public liability insurance -Bee disease insurance for 2 colonies (more covered at member's cost) -Quarterly Asociation magazine (typically 32 pages per quarter) -Annual Association Directory stuffed full of contacts and information -Access to library of over 350 books and video -Access to low cost Group Subscription to Beekeeping Quarterly -Monthly indoor meetings with guest and local speakers (September - April) -Monthly outdoor meetings/visits (May-August) -Low cost hire of honey extractor, heather honey press, steam wax extractor and refractometer (for moisture measurement in honey) -Loan of compound microscope (for members who have taken microscopy course) -Free advice on all aspects of beekeeping via visiting advisors -Fellowship of fellow beekeepers -convenient access to purchase a full range of beekeeping supplies -slightly subsidised and extremely convivial Winter Dinner and Summer Barbeque -Free bee health clinic for diagnosis of acarine and nosema -Annual Honey Show (as part of the Great Autumn Flower Show held on the Yorkshire Showground) where members who exhibit or steward can sell honey and hive products. -50% rebate on BBKA exam fees for all exams passed -Free SWARMSEARCH operation to put beekeepers in need of swarms in touch with members of the public who have swarms they want removed -Spray warning scheme in conjunction with contractors and farmers -Access to low cost courses on beekeeping and related subjects. The Association runs a 24 week combined theoretical and practical course every year, a weekend course for novices to try out beekeeping, and candle making and microscopy courses in alternate years. The Association is a Registered Charity, so is able to reclaim basic tax paid on the subscriptions of members who give a Deed of Covenant. -- Mike Rowbottom Hon. Treasurer, Harrogate and Ripon Beekeepers Association HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:52:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: s_l_kidman@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Screens for bottoms CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/103 87b178c3 REPLY: 240:244/101 fbaf44cd PID: FDAPX/w 1.15 UnReg(45) BL> Kent asked if bees propolize these boards. 7 years ago before varoa came to cheshire ,i strarted using 1 foot square holes in floorboards covered with wire mesh about 1/4 inch. In the Autumn the bees in a large hive started to propolise the bottom screen. Later on in the winter they had removed all the propolis. Tim Kidman 240:244/103 sidney@unisonfree.net --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/103) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:43:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: Raising comb honey ban MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paragraph 8 of the exemption granted to the Florida Department of Agriculture for the use of Coumaphos by the U.S. E.P.A. on January 20, 2000 states: "Coumaphos has a high octano/water coefficient and is lipophilic, if residues were to occur they would be expected to be found in the beeswax. To insure the use is non-food, a restriction is required prohibiting the sale of comb honey from treated hives. Therefore, the following statement should be added to the label: "Sale of Comb honey from hives treated with coumaphos is prohibited." The last sentence is in bold print. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: Raising comb honey ban Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:43 PM 2/23/2000 -0600, Bob Stevens wrote: >Paragraph 8 of the exemption granted to the Florida Department of >Agriculture for the use of Coumaphos by the U.S. E.P.A. on January 20, >2000 states: "Coumaphos has a high octano/water coefficient and is >lipophilic, if residues were to occur they would be expected to be found >in the beeswax. To insure the use is non-food, a restriction is >required prohibiting the sale of comb honey from treated hives. >Therefore, the following statement should be added to the label: "Sale >of Comb honey from hives treated with coumaphos is prohibited." The >last sentence is in bold print. Thank you Bob, for referencing the document in which the cited language appears. It seems clear that use of coumaphos obtained under the Florida exemption as modified by the EPA on January 20, 2000 incurs the cited prohibition in addition to the prior language present on the coumaphos label. It is likely that this prohibition will be added to each exemption as it comes up for renewal, unless there was an error in the Florida renewal, and that error gets corrected. The language "added to the label" shows that the additional prohibition is new, and the date of the addition is stated. I suspect that retroactive addition of that prohibition to prior label coumaphos use would require publication of such added prohibition, probably in the Federal Register. It has long been required by law that pesticides be applied according to the label that must, by law, accompany the pesticide when it is purchased. We are even required to have that label on our persons applying pesticides. The label is "sacred." The lesson here is "READ THE LABEL." I also file all labels from pesticides used here to establish a record of my legal obligations thereunder. Also, to avoid wasting money on pesticides that one might decline to use because of label prohibitions, it might be wise to ask the vendor about the label prohibitions prior to purchase. The permitted uses of coumaphos in agricultural commodities cited in EPA documents seems widespread, to an extent that causes me worry. Meat lack not in lipids, in fact chicken has been disgustingly fatty of late. Unlike beeswax, which often traverses the alimentary canal intact, animal fats in food are digested. One cannot but wonder if we beekeepers, being less organized than the meat, milk, poultry, and egg (MMPE in EPA lingo) industry, are being subjected to relatively greater rigor, perhaps being thrown as a sop to the adherents of Green Religion. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:52:48 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: chris utting Subject: colour slides MIME-Version: 1.0 The Northern Branch of the Devon (England) Beekeepers Association is developing an outreach programme to the public. Can anybody recommend a retail source of 35 mm colour slides on general beekeeping ? Also does anybody know where I can get 35 mm colour slides produced if I supply the originals on disc from Microsoft 'Power Plus' software ? -- chris utting ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 07:34:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: expeller/hexane processed soyflour Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If one searches the list archives for soyflour one will find numerous references, many stating that expeller processed soyflour is the product of choice for bees. But Allen Dick has one post in which he gives the Honeymead company of Mankato, Minnesota as a supplier. Their product (Honeysoy) is I understand a hexane processed product. The other big company which produces soyflour is ADM (perhaps the biggest soybean processing company in the world). Their product (Nutrisoy) is also hexane processed. In speaking with the company yesterday the representative also said that 95% of all the soybean meal (the last two years I have ground soybean meal at a grist mill) in North America is hexane processed now. I also note that in the current Beemaid/Manitoba Honey Producers catalogue the soyflour has a disclaimer in bold print (NOT EXPELLER PROCESSED). So, is the need for expeller processed soyflour a beekeeping "urban myth"? What problems if any have occurred in the past with hexane processed product? The Nutrisoy manufacturer was willing to quantify what the amount of residual hexane was, but I had no idea at what level it causes problems to the bees. Is that level known? I really hope this question generates some response on the list. In the past I have been very disappointed with the amount of information forthcoming on the subject. I know that Allen was following a soybean list for awhile, and I know that Tom Sanford did work on pollen substitutes at one time, and I know that Adony is doing work on nutrition now, so I expect someone has some information on this. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:08:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: expeller/hexane processed soyflour In-Reply-To: <200002241240.HAA13483@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...Honeymead company of Mankato, Minnesota... Their product > (Honeysoy) is I understand a hexane processed product... > ...is the need for expeller processed soyflour a beekeeping "urban myth"? No, Stuart of Mann Lake told me that they use expeller processed flour and that there is only one supplier in North America. The use it in BeePro because he says the residual chemicals in the other product can repel bees. Derrick at AHPC chased a supplier down for me. Apparently they only have meal, but would be happy to grind it for us. With time and distance constraints and all, I did not follow up, since most of us get acceptable results with the HoneySoy. I plan to now, though since you have reminded me. Expeller process also has some residual lipids which are not in the chemically produced product. The lipids (fats) are considered beneficial in the quantities that they occur in the expeller product. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:08:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garrett Dodds Subject: eye mutations Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Does anyone know where I can find honey bees with eye color mutations? Any help in finding some mutations would be appreciated. Thanks, Garrett Dodds Royal Gold Farms Custom Inseminations 305 E. Hale St. Ridgeway, OH 43345 937-363-3119 gdodds@bright.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:41:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Prohibition on comb honey production from hives treated with Coumaphos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit During the past three weeks there have been several reports of the new prohibition on comb honey production from hives treated with Coumaphos. Bob Steven's, today, was just the latest. This restriction is now on the labels for FL, GA, WA, and MN and will be on the labels for every state that gets a renewal of their 1999 label. Several days ago in "Another reason not to use Coumaphos", I asked Bee-L members how I could make contact at the EPA to discuss this label restriction. I received several private responses, which were of considerable help. Of great interest to me was that one response provided exactly the right person to contact, but was sent via a web site that makes it impossible to trace the sender! Big Brother watching? I had a long conversation with the EPA person, which I will share. First, however, I have to tell you that while my contact was at a very high level and was very knowledgeable, I cannot directly quote this person. After our discussion, I specifically asked that question and was told that their policy is that the only persons who can talk for attribution are those in the EPA's press office. So, you have to trust me, or not. The exact wording in question is: SALE OF COMB HONEY FROM HIVES TREATED WITH COUMAPHOS IS PROHIBITED. This wording was added at the request of Bayer, as was the additional 14 day waiting period between when strips are removed and when supers can be put back on hives. It was explained to me that Bayer has no data to support these restrictions, but they just wanted to be very conservative. However, during the summer of 2000 Bayer has promised to do such studies, so the 2001 labels may again be modified (based on the outcome of the studies). I had three questions that were addressed in our conversation: * The comb honey restriction seems to run "forever". Was that intended? * Does the label restriction concerning comb honey production apply if Coumaphos was used in the fall of 1999, and not in the spring of 2000? * Why does the label not contain a use restriction or limitation such as "This product is only to be used for the control of small hive beetle and/or when there is documented resistance of varroa mites to fluvalinate"? Question 1. The comb honey restriction seems to run "forever". Was that intended? No. By law, Section 18 labels are limited to no more than one year. Products sold with Section 18 labels cannot be used after expiration of the label. (A surprise to me, and I wonder how anyone is supposed to know that. Does the label say, "This label expires on xxxx, and use of this product after that date is illegal"?) During 2000, Section 18 renewals for Coumaphos are effective from the renewal date until February 1, 2001. (In 2001 all the state labels will expire (and, presumably, be renewed) on the same date.) As a practical matter, the intent of the label was to say "if you treat in the spring of 2000, you cannot produce comb honey during 2000." Personally, I think this could have been said in a manner that was clearer. Question 2. Does the label restriction concerning comb honey production apply if Coumaphos was used in the fall of 1999, and not in the spring of 2000? No. My contact wondered why anyone would think this could possibly be the case, as it was clear to him that the 1999 label could not possibly apply to 2000! Hmmm, this gets back to the question of whether it is clear to a buyer (who reads the label) that the label has an expiration date and products sold under that label are not to be used after such date. Specifically, my contact told me that if Coumaphos strips were used in the fall of 1999 and not in the spring of 2000, beekeepers were free to produce comb honey from hives so treated. Question 3. Why does the label not contain a use restriction or limitation such as "This product is only to be used for the control of small hive beetle and/or when there is documented resistance of varroa mites to fluvalinate"? Simply put, the answer to this is "Because no one ever asked for it." The EPA is convinced that if the label is followed, there will be no detectable (or dangerous) levels of Coumaphos in liquid or comb honey. As their job is public safety, they would have no reason to ask for wording similar to that mentioned above. However, my contact acknowledged that there were at least two good reasons for such label wording: * Eventually, mites will (not may, but will) develop resistance to Coumaphos. Restricting use to only when necessary will delay such resistance. * If the label is not strictly followed (not only as to duration of treatment, but also as to treatment methodology concerning number of strips, use of gloves, removal of supers, etc.) there could be very severe effects as Coumaphos is a very dangerous chemical. This could lead one to say the chemical should be avoided if at all possible. My contact said that if they were to get such a request from beekeeping organizations such as the ABF, EAS, state beekeeping organizations, and/or state departments of agriculture, they would be taken very seriously. My impression is that it would be "easy" to get this kind of wording added if groups such as those listed were to make such a request. If asked, I can provide the name and telephone number of the proper person to whom such requests should be forwarded. I hope this information is helpful, and thanks again to all those who helped me make the proper contact. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:43:13 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: harry hoover Subject: help needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Honey Help Needed. Dear Bee-L I am a second year degree student in the Sport Science = program at the Waikato Polytechnic, Hamilton, New Zealand. I am very = interested in sport, and have for many years followed the advice of an = old wives tale, which says; A teaspoon of HONEY, eaten an hour before an exam will enhance one's = thinking processes, making one calmer and able to produce better = results. Years ago I also applied this practice to my own performance in sport, = and while I can't say conclusively that it ever did me any good, it = definitely didn't do me any harm, as I've been national champion more = than once, and had a generally very successful career in sport. I am now interested in scientifically testing this tale for my Degree = research project (3rd year,) and would like to find out if there have = ever been any studies done on the effects of Honey on either the = cognitive evaluation process (thinking) or performance in sport.=20 Are you aware of any studies which may have impinged on these areas? I = have been searching archives all over the planet but so far have drawn a = blank. =20 To date I have not been able to find any research other than for the = medicinal effects of honey and other bee products. I would appreciate any help you could give me. I can be contacted at; h.hoover@internet.co.nz Any suggestions as to other areas to look would also be very much = appreciated. Sincerely,=20 Enrico Hoover. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: expeller/hexane processed soyflour Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allen wrote: >No, Stuart of Mann Lake told me that they use expeller processed flour and that there is only one supplier in North America. The use it in BeePro because he says the residual chemicals in the other product can repel bees. I actually just found a source of expeller processed soybeans local to me in Mactaquac, New Brunswick. The name is Mactaquac Soybean Inc and they are just a small family farm operation. They put the meal through a roller mill after and maybe by tightening the rollers they can produce a fine enough product. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:49:32 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Spring in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, Thank you to all who replied to my southern beekeepers looking for bloom thread. Things are heating up fast here in New England. I live in a mountainous region at an elevation of 1100 feet. This week had some early arrivals, very early as a matter of fact. Snow fleas were spotted on the 22nd, Evening Grossbeaks on the 23rd, a pair of sparrows tried to start a nest on my porch today, and a friend of mine had a 50 gallon sap run yesterday.( For Maple syrup) We saw a Pileated Woodpecker today eagerly digging out grubs in a dead tree. February has an interesting almanac too. Out of the past 24 days, 15 had high temps above 32. Four days had temps, over 40, hence bee flight. Not bad for the mountains of New Hampshire. It's raining now and the snow is disappearing fast. The bees are doing well too. One hive has all but finished off an 8 OZ. pollen pattie that went on a couple of weeks ago during a 2 hour window of opportunity, as the temps hit 40. Over night temps are in the 20's. I plan to receive my queens during week 15, (April 10 or so). It will be an early spring again this year here in New England. As soon as the bottom wire of the electric fence shows up from the melting snow depth, I will start it pulsing. I know it's too early for bears, but better a couple of weeks early than a day late! Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 02/24/99 14:49:32 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:15:55 -0000 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: colour slides MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris utting" > Can anybody recommend a retail source of 35 mm colour slides on general > beekeeping ? > Try the International Bee Research Association (IBRA) E-mail ibra@cardiff.ac.uk John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:17:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: eye mutations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garrett Dodds wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find honey bees with eye color mutations? Any > help in finding some mutations would be appreciated. Give the Baton Rouge Lab a call - they used to maintain stocks such as this. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:13:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Subject: Re: Spring in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spring in southern Alabama. Hi all, I live one half way between Montgomery and Mobile and the fruit trees down here have been in full bloom for about four days now. The sad part about the whole thing is that in the four or five times I've closely observed the blooms, I've only seen one bee working the blossoms. I can't wait the get things together so that I can get my own hives going in this area. There seems to be a real dearth of pollinators around here. Mike Stoops Excel, Alabama, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:14:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: stimey Subject: Winter kill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On opening my bees today, it was 60 degrees, I found no activity and fewer bees than I expected. This was my first year and a rocky one. With mites then mice then opposums. I was doing well till the opposums, I fear their predatation weakened my two hives to late in the season to recover as they had food but the numbers didn't seem to be there. Anyway there was almost no brood, spotty on the edge of one comb and that brood haddegraded to a yellow liquid. Is it possible to reuse this comb ( duragilt ) ? If so should I cut away those cells ? Or would it be better to disgard the foundation and scrape the frame ? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:26:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Winter kill In-Reply-To: <200002251229.HAA28487@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Anyway there was almost no > brood, spotty on the edge of one comb and that brood had degraded to a yellow > liquid. Is it possible to reuse this comb ( duragilt ) ? If so should I cut > away those cells ? Or would it be better to discard the foundation and > scrape the frame ? There is some difference of opinion about this. Since drawn comb is very valuable and a limited resource, most beekeepers simply remove the most obvious and easily eliminated junk and give even quite dirty combs -- as long as they do not have AFB -- to a reasonably strong colony at a time of year (spring or summer) when they are able to deal with it easily. Usually they clean it up in an instant with little apparent burden on the colony. There are, on the other hand, those who believe that combs should be renewed often and that *any* old or dirty combs should be discarded. Apparently there are equivalent successes in both groups. Most beekeepers, commercial and hobbyist, re-use just about any comb that is sound and flat and mostly worker cells, regardless of dead brood, mold, etc. If necessary, areas can be partially or completely scraped down, but Duragilt is a special case. When scraped down so that the plastic midrib is exposed, it will never be drawn again and should be discarded. We have a lot of discussion about this sort of thing in the logs and a search for 'Duragilt' might be helpful. A little imagination in choosing other keys could bring you a flood of responses from the logs that almost seem to be written in response to your very question here, and others you might be wondering about. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:36:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Spring in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the following from the AP wire: D.C. Prepares for Burst of Cherry Blossoms Horticulturist Predicts Early Peak WASHINGTON (Feb. 25) - Officials are forecasting an early spring bloom this year for the cherry blossoms in the nation's capital. ``They're going to bloom the first week of April,'' Robert DeFeo, a horticulturist with the National Park Service, said Thursday. He's successfully predicted the time of peak bloom activity for the 3,000 Japanese cherry trees that line the Potomac River tidal basin for the past nine years. The trees, whose fragrant blooms mark the start of spring, are direct descendants of the Yoshino cherry trees given to the U.S. government by the Japanese in 1912. They have become a major spring tourist attraction. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:36:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: Expeller Processed Soyflour MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From the 1992 Hive and the Honey Bee, pp. 215-221: Erickson and Herbert in 1980 ABJ 120, pp. 122-126 concluded: 1. Soyflour should be fully toasted to remove trypsin inhibitors 2. Soyflour should have a fast content about 7% if fed without pollen 3. Soyflour should have a fat content of about 0.5%-1% if fed with 10-20% pollen, as in pollen supplement 4. Soyflour should have a high protein content (about 45-60%) Expeller processing and solvent processing leave different amounts of fat in the resulting product...it is presumably the fat content not presence of contaminates that is important... There is good in-depth information in the chapter cited. Tom Sanford -- =========================================================================== Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Extension Apiculturist, University of Florida Bldg. 970, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Ph. 352/392-1801 ext. 143 Fax 352/392-0190 E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Screen bottoms and Formic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Three questions and an idea: 1. In meditating on two recent threads and some literature, the matter of screen bottom boards and the matter of formic acid varroa treatment, I have been hit by a question. It seems to be generally agreed that formic acid vapors are heavier than air, for which reason the gel packs (or other delivery systems where applicable) are placed in the top of the hive. If such treatment were done with an open screened bottom board, would not the desirable vapors merely drain out through the bottom? I like the idea of both methods, but would hate to do two good things only to find that the second had rendered the first ineffective. Perhaps Bob Stevens has some information on whether this combination has been tried, and if so, what happened. 2. Does anyone know of a selective harmless anaesthetic that would even temporarily knock out mites but not disturb the bees. We know that CO2 anesthesizes bees, and it is relatively harmless except for its ability to smother. 3. If varroa attempt to get up from below a screen to reattach themselves to the bees, since they have no wings, do they jump, or do they merely crawl across the horizontal surface upon which they fell until they find something to climb? If mites do the latter, I believe it practical to develop an apparatus that would kill the mites as they crawled, and simultaneously count their deaths. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Erick and Wendy Platt Subject: Re: Screen bottoms and Formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On mite killing.. A quick note on this.. the other day I saw some bottom screens in use which had a metal pan beneath coated with Pam cooking spray which killed the mites when they fell off the bees. This was designed to sit on a regular bottom board. THe screen was obviously small enough to prevent bees from contacting the oil. This, I thought, was a novel idea. I'm not sure how effective it is though. Erick Platt ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:41:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Screen bottoms and Formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/26/00 2:47:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, morharn@KYND.NET writes: > If mites do the latter, I believe it practical to develop an apparatus that > would kill the mites as they crawled, and simultaneously count their deaths. > Would a pan of mineral oil beneath the 8 mesh screen accomplish this? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:51:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Stevens Subject: SCREEN BOTTOMS AND GEL PACKS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Marong's question of the effectiveness of formic when used with an open bottom board is a good one. When they developed the directions for the gel pack in Beltsville, they wrote that it should be used with an open entrance. I assume they meant a regular 3/4" entrance without an entrance reducer in it or a 3/8" entrance on a pallet.This is to keep the fumes from building up in the hive and killing queens or bees. If you used the screen on a bottom board, you would have the same size entrance. A screen without the bottom board would seemingly allow the fumes out even faster. However, the polyurethane hives that the Scandinavians are using all come with a screen built into the bottom board, and they have been using nothing but formic, lactic and oxalic acid for mite control so it must not cause a problem. I will pass it by Dr. Jeff Pettis at the Beltsville lab, and since he developed both the gel and the screened board, he can probably give us a better explanation. 2 The question of anesthetizing the bees - the Russians used some kind of heat treatment but anything like that would be vary labor intensive - if we were getting what they are getting (relative to their standard of living - $50 lb.for honey), we could pick the damn things off one at a time. The only Russian I met at Apimondia showed me a picture of his car and his beehives - the car was a Mercedes 450. The research that was done on smoker additives to knock the mites down - was it brought to fruition? Grape fruit leaves and neem were supposed to be ideal. Is anybody using it or were their some negative consequences to its use such as honey contamination? Two years ago at the ABF at a small workshop attended by Dr. Shimanuki and four or five others, I heard someone from the midwest report on his success knocking the mites off by making them go through a pollen trap. If you can knock pollen out of sack, why couldn't you scrape mites off the bees by forcing them through a specially designed entrance - maybe with some neem impregnated bristles - a kind of automatic car wash for bees. Come out in the morning open up a back entrance, let the field force out and make them come back in the front where you have your car wash entrance. You can see that the pressure of getting the gel on the market has gone to my head - I lay awake at night killing varroa rather than counting sheep. 3) There seems to be an unwillingness on the part of some writers to accept the idea that live mites that fall through the screens just sit on the bottom board waiting for a ride until they die. Maybe the light stuns them. We have all seem them move and know they are capable of crawling back up, but they don't. They just sit there waiting for a warm body to jump on - like muggers in Central Park. We can advance any number of explanations for this behavior, but I'm not sure it is worth research dollars to discover the correct explanation. Two weeks ago today, I was down speaking at the beekeepers' meeting in Florida and Kim Flottum indicated that there were rumors about the the honey price was going to jump because of drought conditions in Brazil and Argentina? He implied that he would know about it in a day or two. Has anyone heard anything? I don't wish a drought on anyone but I sure would like to sell last year's honey for what it cost me to make it. Bob Stevens \ \ Incidentally, the address that comes though on my posts Betterbee@nycap.rr.com does not work for anyone trying to contact me directly. The address betterbee@betterbee.com does work however. I have Roadrunner high speed cable access which is wonderful until you have a problem - then you can't get Ted Turner or the President of Time-Warner on the phone. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 06:47:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "WM. ARNOLD JONES" Subject: pollen patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My pollen patties are a little more runny than I would like any = suggestions? arnold=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:29:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Junk on Screen Bottoms In-Reply-To: <200002262050.PAA25595@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To anyone who has used screen bottoms for several years: We have talked about propolizing, and that apparently is not a problem, but I wonder what kind of maintenance is required to keep the screens reasonably clean over time and what the act of cleaning them is like. What tools work best, if any are required? When we use solid bottoms for several years, a lot of junk piles up unless it is scraped off. When we cut comb and it falls into the hive or the bees chew off comb, it falls to the bottom and sits there. Usually, it builds up or is made into stools. After a few years, I would think that some kind of scraping or cleaning would be needed, and that it might be hard on some kinds of screen. Perhaps this consideration should be paramount in selecting a mesh and wire size for the screen. Maybe not. Does anyone have any real experience with this? allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 06:50:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: The Price of Sugar Comments: To: "sci.ag.bee" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob was asking about the price of honey. I have no further news, but can shed some light on world sugar. It is trending down and approaching long time lows. I recall I saw it at 2.5c or so a decade or more back, but at the current price, and considering the decay of currency over time, I would think that we are well below the cost of production and also at a low. Several charts can be found at http://futures.tradingcharts.com/menu.html The prices for the #11 contract are not to be confused with the artificial domestic prices which prevail in many countries due to import restrictions or tariffs. It is the real price of the standard, almost fully refined product in bulk on ships in various ports worldwide. It can vary in price quite a lot without affecting what we as beekeepers pay for bee feed. Nonetheless it is a competitor to honey and the low price currently shows that the world has a surplus of sweets. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:16:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Junk on Screen Bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > We have talked about propolizing, and that apparently is not a problem, but I > wonder what kind of maintenance is required to keep the screens reasonably clean > over time and what the act of cleaning them is like. >From my experience there is almost no scraping required. The bees seem to regard the screen as something they don't need to deal with. It's only when you get grass or other plants growing against it that the bees start to seal with propolis. To keep hives on pallets well off the ground works good, and you will need that anyway to get the ventilation to work through the bottom. > When we use solid bottoms for several years, a lot of junk piles up unless it is > scraped off. When we cut comb and it falls into the hive or the bees chew off > comb, it falls to the bottom and sits there. Usually, it builds up or is made > into stools. What falls down from inside the hive is carried out by the bees. But I guess the cleaning behaviour of the local bees will have influence on this. I seldom see what you refer to, rather the opposite. Some of them even nibble off the paint from my bottom boards during spring cleaning...... So basically you only need to keep weed away from the screen. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:37:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: pollen patties In-Reply-To: <200002271321.IAA09313@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My pollen patties are a little more runny than I would like any = > suggestions? We add sugar or soy to get the patty just right. A little goes a long way. Also, bee sure to visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ and check out the pollen patty link, and to visit the BEE-L logs. In the meantime, a simple and obvious answer is to simply add more of something dry until the texture gets the way you want it. Just remember that the patties will get drier for a few hours after they are made, since the dry ingredients will soak up the moisture slowly, so you usually want them a little sloppy at first. Another point: don't stop in the middle of making them and have lunch. They will get difficult to work with sometimes due this setting up process. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: [Fwd: looking for employment in beekeeping in FL] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------69DBDF6DCAD44A4509C4A223" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------69DBDF6DCAD44A4509C4A223 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any takers? -- =========================================================================== Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Extension Apiculturist, University of Florida Bldg. 970, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Ph. 352/392-1801 ext. 143 Fax 352/392-0190 E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== --------------69DBDF6DCAD44A4509C4A223 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com by GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24361) with ESMTP id <01JMD9UTKX4E8Y7DYS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU> for mts@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:35:09 EST Received: from ESchlothauer@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id y.88.11eb36c (3867); Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:35:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:35:01 -0500 (EST) From: ESchlothauer@aol.com Subject: looking for employment in beekeeping in FL To: Workwax@aol.com Cc: deweesc@doacs.state.fl.us, AdamsHonCo@aol.com, mts@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU Message-id: <88.11eb36c.25e992f5@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Dear Sir or Madam, I am looking for an employment at an apiary (bee farm) for the season of March-October. I am ready to provide the resume , and reference information at your request. I have 5+ years experience working in the industry in Russia and possess an associate degree from the Academy of Beekeeping in Russia. I am currently in the US on a 12-month J-1 visa with work authorization. I will appreciate any links, names of interested parties that you might help me with, Sincerely, Nikolay Potapov 4057 Ayers Dr Kennesaw,GA 30144 TEL/FAX.770-420-7236 --------------69DBDF6DCAD44A4509C4A223-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:20:47 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Mesh floors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just like P-O Gustafsson from Sweden I experience no propolis being stuck to mesh floors. VERY OCCASIONALLY there may be a little comb, obviously a small piece has fallen down (probably my fault) and they have fixed it to the mesh. If the floor is removed for any reason my cure for this is the gas torch - an essential piece of beekeeping equipment. Obviously the mesh must be steel wire, but then plastic mesh is a waste of money. A friend informs me he did have a colony that propolised the mesh in autumn but then removed it all by mid winter. He considered that the overwintering colony appreciated the ventilation, and I think he is correct. Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:54:57 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Spring in New England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/25/00 10:42:24 AM, JMitc1014@AOL.COM writes: <> I spoke to Rob Defeo yesterday, and he says that if his prediction is off this year, it will be because the blooms arrive even earlier than predicted. <> Actually, only 150 of the orignial trees are still alive. As the trees die off, they are replaced with commercial stock, except for last year when 500 clones of the original trees were planted. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:27:55 -0600 Reply-To: dehenry@mb.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Brood Foundation in Top Bar Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, I am considering starting at least one top bar hive this season. I have access to plans and construction techniques from web sources. What I'm most uncertain about is providing foundation for brood. Should I just dump the bees in the hive and expect them to construct brood foundation from the starter strips? I couldn't find any reference on this aspect in the archives. Thanks, Doug Henry Lockport, Manitoba VE4TG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: midnitebee@cybertours.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: Pres.EAS Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Greetings! > The Presidents EAS 2000 newsletter is located here: > http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/pres.eas2000.htm > > Other events are located here: > http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/contentpages/events.html > > -- > Herb/Norma > Holly-B Apiary > PO Box 26 > Wells,Maine 04090-0026 > The Beekeeper's Home on the Internet > http://www.mainebee.com > Stony Critters > http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/ > "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:37:33 -0600 Reply-To: beerich@bellsouth.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry & Becky Richards Subject: Package bees in Alabama, Mississippi In-Reply-To: <200002271718.MAA13504@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know it is early to be shaking out package bees. With the mild weather, I wonder if anyone in Alabama or Mississippi is doing so already. I will be driving on business from Laurel, Missippi to Nashville, Tennessee through Alabama this week (I-20 and I-65)and would love to pick up some packages enroute. I am trying to recover from tracheal mite losses without sacrificing anything to wax moths. TIA -Barry Richards ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 11:25:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "BOGANSKY,RONALD J." Subject: Quiet Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In my part of the world spring is just around the corner. In a few weeks the maples will be blooming and a new season will be underway. A thought that usually excites most beekeepers is depressing to me this year. For some reason, I lost more colonies this year than any other since I started beekeeping. Usually I have very little winter loss. Even back in '95 or '96 I lost very few colonies when other beekeepers were sustaining huge losses in this area. In past years the colony strength is so good that I make a number of nucs and sell them in the spring. The last time (8 or 9 years) I had a huge loss was the first time I came up against T-mites. I didn't think I had them and didn't treat for them. But since then I have not had any problems. I knew something was wrong in December. I noticed on a warm day two colonies were being robbed out. Upon investigation the colony had collapsed and there were no bees present. I wanted, and probably still do, to blame it on varroa. I never lost colonies in the fall. When I first was hit with varroa the colonies I lost died in late summer. My treatment for varroa has been the same since I encountered them. I use Apistan in the late summer and I also use some mineral oil on top bars whenever I work a colony. I felt that only using it once a year would slow down resistance. I also viewed the mineral oil as a secondary treatment that would also help the resistance problem. I did not notice many mites this year at all. I always check drone brood every time I work a colony. In fact I found only one colony in July that was being hit. I thought I would try an experiment. There was a large number of dead bees in front of the colony. I thought maybe a pesticide problem. They did have mites. What I did was split the colony in three. I treated each one for mites and I gave them some brood to help them out and a queen cell. My thought was that a break in the brood cycle would expose the mites for treatment. They built up and went into winter fairly strong. These colonies are still surviving. A number of beekeepers in the area including most of the commercial ones were all going to use the chumophos (sp?) just in case they had resistance. I wasn't convinced I had any resistant mites in fact as I already stated I didn't see much mite activity at all. In early September I started the menthol treatment. The colonies were strong and looked like they would winter well. I always leave the fall flow for the bees so I don't bother much after October 1st. Two months later was when I noticed the dead colonies. In early January I checked the colonies and found one more had died. I didn't open any colonies but confirmed the other colonies were still alive. Most of these were requeened with purchased queens in the Spring. Then we had some really cold weather. Haven't had a winter this cold in a long time. The snow had melted enough this weekend to allow me to check another yard and I found more had died. These had small clusters and probably couldn't take the cold. I don't know if the beekeepers in my area that used the chumopos did any better. I am not totally sure what happened here. In fact I have been debating whether to post this or not since Christmas because I don't think I gave enough information for anyone to be able to figure it out. But there are some really good beekeepers on this list so I thought I would throw it out for discussion. We have a saying at work "One oh no, erases 100 atta boys". I guess just when I thought I was really understanding and doing well after all these years, I am still a novice. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:44:52 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Mesh floors In-Reply-To: <200002280106.UAA23861@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <200002280106.UAA23861@listserv.albany.edu>, Ken Hoare writes >Just like P-O Gustafsson from Sweden I experience no propolis being stuck to >mesh floors. VERY OCCASIONALLY there may be a little comb, obviously a small >piece has fallen down (probably my fault) and they have fixed it to the >mesh. If the floor is removed for any reason my cure for this is the gas >torch - an essential piece of beekeeping equipment. Obviously the mesh must >be steel wire, but then plastic mesh is a waste of money. Our experience on this directly is strictly limited, but we do talk to a number of people who also use them, and propolising does not occur in any but very rare cases. The gas torch is, of course, lethal to these floors and boxes as used by P-O and widespread in Northern Europe, because they are made from expanded polystyrene. We get a few bits and pieces lying on the mesh, which youcan just tip out, but no 'stools' as mentioned by Allen Dick on the actual mesh. They occur as usual on the surrounding solid area, but not attached to the actual mesh. The majority of these mesh floors available on the market are the polystyrene version although there are some wood ones too. Somepeople say the plastic mesh in some of these floors is no good, others are perfectly happy with it. Whilst we have not YET had any problems at all with the plastic that is not to say we will not in future as it gets old and brittle. I would tend to concur that steel would have been better, preferably stainless steel when it is this close to the damp ground. Choice of material comes down to price. The plastic costs a fraction of using steel mesh, an even smaller fraction of the stainless version. It comes as a ready to use made to measure piece (it is a slotted grid, rather than a mesh), so there is little labour in cutting/trimming/fitti ng/replacing it. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:43:16 +0100 Reply-To: Apiservices - Gilles Ratia Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices - Gilles Ratia Organization: Apiservices Subject: Re: looking for employment in beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nikolay Potapov (ESchlothauer@aol.com) wrote: > I will appreciate any links, names of interested > parties that you might help me with, Try http://www.beekeeping.com/jobs/ Regards, Gilles RATIA APISERVICES gilles.ratia@apiservices.com http://www.apiservices.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:06:57 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: winter loss's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I've noticed a few postes regarding dead colonies. I to have lost 2 colonies this winter. This is the first in very many years. It was warm here this past weekend (Ontario Canada) and the snow is mostly gone. But we're not done with winter here yet. I wasn't able to do a full examination of the colonies. I'm suspecting something was stressing the hives. There is a small amount of feces around the top ventilation hole on the hives that died and none on the survivors. They were all cared for the same in the fall. These hives were not as sheltered as the others. Or mites could be the culprit. Kent ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:15:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: Screen bottoms and Formic acid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:41 PM 2/26/2000 EST, Beecrofter wrote, concerning the extermination of fallen mites: >Would a pan of mineral oil beneath the 8 mesh screen accomplish this? Mineral oil would surely would kill the mites, but oily mites still have to be counted, and the oil filtered to remove detritus. What I had in mind is more like a bug zapper to turn each mite into dust, and count the zaps, i.e. mites. This would be quite simple to do. The idea of counting mites is less than attractive to those of us already needing reading glasses. The sugar roll technique developed at the University of Nebraska sounds great, but for that test I intend to try to weigh the bees in and the mites out, and take the mite-to-bee weight ratio as my measure. Which of us doing inventory would count our frame wedge nails, and they're larger than mites. Life is too short to emulate "The Count" in the Dr. Seuss story. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:12:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Winter losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in Southeastern CT USA we had a period in January where the temperature went from near 60 degrees F to 5 Degrees F in less than 24 hours. In two hives which died out I found the cluster split into two places in the hive and dead in the starved mode with heads buried in uncapped cells and honey still available within 3 frames from the clusters. Of 33 hives I have 6 confirmed deadouts to date percentage wise the heaviest losses I have had since beginning 6 years ago (18%). The remaining hives are strong a few still have some drones they carried over. One hive had signs of mouse damage but the culprit had since moved away and other than a bit of chewed comb and debris the bees seemed fine. I have begun stimulative feeding in a few hives as I like to catch the maple and dandylion flow instead of building on it. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:57:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Quiet Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Ron, I'm sorry for your losses. Been there, done that. It's no fun. As did many of us, I took a big hit in '95-'96. And even after I vowed diligence, I did not fare well in '98-'99. Problems can (and do) happen, even under a watchful eye. > T-mites. I didn't think I had them and didn't treat for them. But since > then I have not had any problems. It's easy to forget about T-mites. In these days of touted resistant strains, it's easy to become complacent to their threat. T-mites are not to be overlooked and veggie oil patties should be routine fall treatments. This is soap box advice, the problem you describe sounds (as you suspect) more like varroa, which can be in check in your yard and still hit you hard if your neighbors have a problem. > I knew something was wrong in December. I noticed on a warm day two > colonies were being robbed out. Upon investigation the colony had > collapsed and there were no bees present. This is a tough call. Varroa collapse is typically late fall (Sept-Oct/Oct-Nov) with corpses left. T-mites is more a mid-winter killer and leaves a mysteriously empty hive. So, December could be a late varroa collapse or an early t-mite demise. The presence or lack thereof of dead bees might be a helpful clue. > In fact I found only one colony in July that was being hit. I thought I > would try an experiment. I'm not sure I follow what your experiment was, but that's not important. In a non-experimental way I can concur with your observation that newly split hives (hives set up in mid-summer) seem to fare much better than seasoned hives going through the winter. Even hives left alone in the fall (no fall crop harvested) do not seem to fare as well as splits set up in the summer. Please note I'm using "seem" without the backing of empirical data. Also let me qualify it with "in my climate" - upstate NY is harsher than Pennsylvania where your are, but not THAT different. But most new hives (with the exceptions of those that just didn't build up and one that built up so quickly it swarmed in mid-September) are looking the best of all my hives right now. I suspect it's due to a queen that did not have the stress of a full blown production season, but frankly I can't say. I wonder (and have conjectured on BEE-L before) if it is the break in the brood cycle. Perhaps a youthful hive has just the right balance of stores, or ratio of foragers to house bees, or ratio of pollen to honey, or something not obvious to me, but it "seems" the new mid-summer hives have fared best this year (and last). So much so that I have been rethinking the whole production and over wintering strategy and begin to wonder if it might be better to run my hives for early summer production and go for massive splits around purple loosestrife bloom. Sure would make for a less hectic fall! Full blown production through July, split 'em all and let them be. I doubt I'll convert to that strategy in my entire operation, but perhaps one yard (I have 4, averaging 15 hives per). There's lots of other things to try this year - formic at long last(!), screened bottoms, drone trapping, IPM methodology. > A number of beekeepers in the area including most of the commercial ones > were all going to use the chumophos (sp?) just in case they had resistance. No comment. I'll spare my usual rant over coumophos. But I wonder if anyone verified Apistan resistance in your area or simply jumped scared onto the coumophos wagon. > I guess just when I thought I was really understanding and doing well after > all these years, I am still a novice. Don't be too hard on yourself. Anyone who makes the efforts you do to learn the ropes is way ahead of the pack. In spite of your perceived failure, you're doing a good job! As I've said before, seems the more we know the more we realize we don't really know a hell of a lot. Wishing you more success this year, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:57:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew Dubas Subject: why do beekeepers use bottom boards? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was at our local county beekeepers assoc. meeting and one commercial beekeeper shared he does not use bottom boards. He goes to home depot and buys scrap plywood and closes the bottom of the hive body up. Then drills 1 3/4" hole just under 1 handle on each hive body. The hole is more defensable. in addition, can anyone find a beehive in the wild that their entrance is below the comb ? It is usually 99.9% above the nest. So why do we use commercial bottom boards ? Also having bottom boards allows an easier entrance for mites to re-enter the hive. The small 3/4" hole is easier for the bees to defend and is higher off the ground. Seems ferral colonies that are high up in the trees or in soffits in homes they don't have mite problems. Imagine a mite trying to crawl back up 3 stories to get back into the entrance of the hive. .... Just a thought. wanted to see what you b-L'ers would have to say about bottom boards. Andrew Dubas www.dubees.com ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:27:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Quiet Spring MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron reports on a number of lost colonies in Eastern PA, with some losses stemming back to late fall of last year. I have only ten colonies in Central New Jersey. Lost one this winter, so far. Used apistan for 5 days last summer after the spring flow died out, then reapplied for the balance of the treatment period after the fall flow was almost over (it seems to dwindle here gradually). Medicated grease patties in the early Spring, then in the late fall (never when supers are on). Have not seen any varroa last year or this. Am assuming the grease patties are working for the trachea mites. The colony I lost did not produce well last year, should have been re-queened or combined I think. The cluster was a good size, but they depleted the nearby frames and I guess one of several cold snaps we had did them in. I did use Mr. Morong's bee candy recipe and have been giving all hives candy this Spring, begining about a week ago. They have been taking it, some more agressively than others. This is my first year using candy - in prior years I would use syrup on installed nucs or only on those colonies that seemed to have populations that seemed too low (not enough flying). Candy is easier, but I suspect it will reduce losses due to starvation only but not particularly mimic a real flow, and thus not be much good for stimulating egg or comb production. /Curtis Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:26:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: anti-varroa bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I will experiment the screened bottoms next summer. I was planning to try using tobacco smoke in my smoker to artificially provocate the mite fall. In Ontario tobacco smoke has been used in conjunction with a sticky board as a sampling method. This method has been discarted because it was not sensitive enough to show early infestations. Nevertheless I think tobacco could be of some help. Has anybody used tobacco smoke aganist varroa? What is the best type of tobacco for this purpose? I also suspect that any treatment used in conjunction with screened bottoms could gain some efficiency by eliminating the varroas that are momentarily weakened but not killed. It could also slow down the development of resistance to acaricides since more of these tougher varroas would be eliminated. Jean-Pierre Chapleau 1282, rang 8 Saint-Adrien, Québec J0A 1C0 (819) 828-3396, fax: (819) 828-0357 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 11:48:36 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Why do beekeepers use bottom boards? In-Reply-To: <200002281257.HAA06447@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andrew Dubas wrote > Just a thought. wanted to see what you > b-L'ers would have to say about bottom boards. Whilst the thread on bottom boards has been about varroa which we do not have, the following comments about Andrew's idea of no entrance on the bottom and a hole in the super move away from varroa to my experiences. The first problem that I have seen is chalkbrood mummies. Here in Australia we did not get chalkbrood until 1992. Before this there were several beekeepers who had top entrances for various reasons. One was so cane toads found it harder to get at the bees for a feed.. With the advent of chalkbrood, it was found that a lot of the hive debri incluing the mummies lay in the bottom of the hive and was a great place for wax moth to breed. I had some queen mating nucs that were 4 in one box. This was before chalkbrood. I put the entrances half way up the box. This was to allow for grass that may grow and block the entrance if it was lower. I quickly found that any water that got in made a swimming pool in the bottom of the nuc as it was water tight at the base. I am sure the bees did not appreciate going for a swim. So these are two reason why I would not use a high entrance with a fixed piece of wood on the bottom with no lower entrance. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA