From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 07:47:33 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-85.9 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SARE_FRAUD_X3,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Delivered-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1E64909B for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SCLoY3010061 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:38 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0204B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Message-ID: Content-Length: 81635 Lines: 1822 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:57:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: Spraying Fine Sugar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I wrote: >But Danish, Dutch and German beekeepers seem to be handling varroa without chemicals. So why cannot I? I should have said But Danish, Dutch and German beekeepers seem to be handling varroa without fluvalinate, flumethrin and coumaphos. Some IPM treatments use chemicals like oxalic and formic acid, but these are chemicals of a relatively more benign type and with little or no residual effects on wax and honey. And of course FGMO is a food grade product. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland (Thinking - read the e mail at least twice before hitting 'send') ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:45:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: Spraying Fine Sugar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All & Ruary Rudd Ruary wrote: >I know that the Open Mesh Floor is on all year, but what are the criteria >which you will use to decide on: spraying sugar,FGMO Ipereat I will use the paper insert in the Open mesh floor periodically to obtain an estimate of the level of infestation in the hive by counting varroa which fall naturally. This is my first year with varroa but I am going to try to avoid using Bayvarol. I realise that this may result in my losing hives due to inexperience but I must start from where I am. I have one apiary at present with varroa to my knowledge but the infestation appears to be very light. By using different treatments I am hoping that the claims made for IPM are borne out in practice. A friend of mine has used Ipereat last year and this year, and reported good mite kills. This is an Italian product and there is a supply on its way to me. A Fogger is on its way to me to use FGMO and by all accounts this is showing good results. In the last couple of days I had an e mail from a New Zealand beekeeper who also has a Fogger on its way to him and we will be comparing results. Perhaps others may wish to share their experiences with us using IPM. Ireland and New Zealand on opposite sides of the globe both have varroa only for a relatively short time. I have made a simple sugar sprayer from a plastic mineral water bottle to add another string to the IPM bow. And thanks to the BEE-L archives for the assistance with this and also to those kind beekeepers who wrote to me with more help. At this stage I could not have less experience in using IPM but I am going to do my best with it. I can only hope that I will gain experience in using these IPM treatments faster than the mites can exploit my initial lack of experience. I realise that the problem of reinfestation will stalk my initial efforts, until the mite is fairly evenly distributed and until feral colonies and those maintained by non compliant beekeepers are eliminated by the mite. But Danish, Dutch and German beekeepers seem to be handling varroa without chemicals. So why cannot I? Only time will tell. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:51:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Propolising vent holes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 07/04/02 06:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << > How large a hole can a bee propolize closed?... I think there is a natural reaction to stuff propolis in any crack that they can get a tongue into, but not a head. Holes larger than this can be bridged, but I think a different mechanism is at work. >> I have a Top Bar Hive with the entrance hole at one end. This hole can be described by joining your finger tip to thumb tip. The bees once made a propolis screen reducing the entrance to a single bee way in the centre of the hole. Wasps were troublesome that year but I don't know whether that was the reason for this behavior. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:18:39 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: food grade feeder pails? In-Reply-To: <200204070230.g372UuGU006522@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This site is explicit about food packaging (1-4). I didn't look beyond this page, but I'm sure the Plastics Council is a place to start. http://americanplasticscouncil.org/benefits/about_plastics/resin_codes/resin.html On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Carmenie Stemmler wrote: > ,,, Food grade > buckets normally have a 1 or a 2 in a triangle, these have a five. I > cannot find a page online explaining what all the grades mean. THe buckets > are brand new by the way. Please advise ASAP. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 11:03:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Selecting breeding stock MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John & all There are many colony evaluation systems in use... A good place to start is http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/assessmentcriteria.html Followed up by a visit to http://homepage.tinet.ie/~eduard/ Which is the home of the Galtee Bee Breeding Group (GBBG) Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:28:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Queen still in cage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put four packages of bees in one week ago and went to check to see if the queens had been released yet. The first three were fine but the fourth still had the queen in the cage. All the sugar was gone from the cage and so many bees in the cage you could hardly see the queen. About 60% of the bees from this package was also missing. I did get her out of the cage but she moved real slow. My friend and I had an extra queen and we installed it with what bees were left and took the queen from the package out. Comments anyone? Rodney in VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:34:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: Spraying Fine Sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett wrote: > > But Danish, Dutch and German beekeepers seem to be handling varroa without > fluvalinate, flumethrin and coumaphos. Some IPM treatments use chemicals > like oxalic and formic acid, but these are chemicals of a relatively more > benign type and with little or no residual effects on wax and honey. And of > course FGMO is a food grade product. Tom, LOL : this is definitely NOT true ! In Belgium (as well as in Holland) beekeepers have been using Apistan (fluvalinate) with success for approx. 15 years, until the mite wun the battle by becoming resistent to fluvalinate. Now the official Belgian beekeeping orgnizations recommend (+ sponsor) the use of Apivar (amitraz) + Perizin (coumaphos). Yeak. It was not before last year that more beekeepers moved to formic acid. Recently oxalic acid is considered to be the silver bullet. cheers, Hugo (half a bee) -- Hugo Thone do bee do bee do ... email : hugo.thone@alcatel.be (\ phone : +32-(0)3-240.94.52 {|||8- fax : +32-(0)3-240.99.49 (/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:19:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Keith Benson Subject: Plastic comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List, Once upon a time a gentlemen who sold beekeeping supplies in the Framingham/Grafton area of Massachussetts convinced me to purchade all plastic comb. There were 2 types. One came in three pices and was fitted to a frame. The center pice was white, and the "comb" portion was bright yellow plastic. The other was once pice comb and frame and was white. I cannot for the life of me recall what the stuff was called or who made it. I was trying to explain the material to a friend and am drawing a blank. Would anyone on the list know what these combs are called? Thanks for any info, Keith "maybe I just need some Ginko" Benson ;) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:50:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: True Story Once in South Africa I was watching a hive of Scuts that I had by my garage. They were used to people, and fairly gentle, and standing there something seemed wrong. Then it occured to me, with my jaw dropping and eyes big, that they were all coming in, and none were going out at all. It was warm, noonish and (as I realized in one of those flashes) unusually still, no bugs chirping, etc.. In that moment of surrealism, I told my wife that she had better take the clothes off the line, and I showed her what the bees were doing. We spoke briefly about all those stories we had heard about animals predicting earthquakes and such, and just as I was opening the door for her to enter with the last of the laundry, one of those South African hail storms hit. Wind to bend trees over, loudness, then hard rain. No earthquake, and the storm soon passed, but, as they say, I'm now a believer. Anyone else? Regards Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:09:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: Spraying Sugar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Hugo Thone wrote as follows: >It was not before last year that more beekeepers moved to formic acid. >Recently oxalic acid is considered to be the silver bullet. But surely Hugo this is exactly the problem. The Apistan solution is purely a short term solution until resistance occurs. Then you must move up the 'chemical' ladder or 'resort' to IPM. My question is simply 'Why not use IPM in the first instance and avoid the hive pollution caused by Apistan, and avoid Coumaphos entirely?' It would seem to me that when resistance to Coumaphos appears, you can try going back to Apistan but now you are alternating between the frying pan and the fire. Of course I realise that large commercial beekeepers cannot by and large use IPM and still show a profit. But that is another question. If you visit the Danish Beekeeping site you will find detailed information on using 'non chemical' treatments. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:41:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Plastic comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Keith & all > The center pice was white, and the "comb" portion > was bright yellow plastic. This sounds like ANP comb, but all the samples that I have seen had a brown centre sheet. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:52:35 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Arturo Fernandez Subject: arturo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It wanted to know the caracter=EDsicas of its bee and that so holds the = cold one, like inverna etec It wanted information on the price of the = queens, at first they would be 5 or 10 and its transport to Spain. luis = it wanted to know as the natural crossings with apis would seran = mellifera mellifera, and the characteristics of his reign=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:44:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Arheit Subject: Re: Spraying Fine Sugar In-Reply-To: <200204081337.g38CdWLA008640@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:34 PM 4/8/02 +0200, you wrote: >Tom Barrett wrote: > > But Danish, Dutch and German beekeepers seem to be handling varroa without > > fluvalinate, flumethrin and coumaphos. > >It was not before last year that more beekeepers moved to formic acid. >Recently oxalic acid is considered to be the silver bullet. We just had a talk given by a professor from Virginia and the inventor of Honey B Healthy gave a talk on a method of using formic acid to kill mites that only takes 12-24 hours and doesn't have the problem of loosing queens like the gel packs do. From their work and demonstration it looks promising. Joe Latshaw from Ohio Queen Breeders also gave a talk on his work. They have developed a queen (rather two strains of queen) that are 100% SMR (no mites survive after 145 days I think it was after introducing their SMR queen). They have also selected them for gentleness (they don't use protective gear), and production. One strain is selected for overwintering and the other is selected for brood production all the time. The good thing is that the SMR trait is retained at about 50% with open breeding unlike the hygienic traits of the Russian bees. This level is often high enough that treatment is not needed. If the number of SMR queens in an area grows (and hence the SMR carrying drone population grows) this percentage will accumulate or grow. His work looks very promising. Unfortunately his instrumentally inseminated queens are $500 so I'll have to settle for an open breed queen when I try them. Incidentally, while they make no effort to select for resistance to tracheal mites, their SMR queens seem very resistant to them as well, with levels of mites nearly non-existent compared to normal queens. -Tim ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 04:39:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Menthol and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have never heard of menthol having any reported effect on varroa. A friend mentioned to me yesterday that she had read in the ABJ or Bee Culture that menthol used to treat for tracheal had been noticed by someone to have caused at least some live varroa to drop off the bees onto the hive floor. Thus -- IF this is true -- menthol potentially should have some beneficial effect on varroa levels where open mesh floors are in use. Since many BEE-L members use the screened bottom boards and some use menthol, can anyone confirm this and, if so, comment on the degree of mite drop? We have started to use menthol in Blue Shop Towels, and wonder if there is a side-effect on the varroa. NOTE: I am NOT saying this is true, and I do not want to start a mindless rumour that menthol works on varroa. I'm just asking. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:05:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Spraying Fine Sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > By using different treatments I am hoping that the claims made for IPM are > borne out in practice. A friend of mine has used Ipereat last year and this > year, and reported good mite kills. This is an Italian product and there is > a supply on its way to me. This product has not been discussed here, but has on the IBL, and I'll quote the most cogent parts, since I no longer recommend visiting Yahoogroups due to serious recent serious privacy and reliabilty concerns (I have to visit anyhow since I have several lists there and, besides, I have my shields up and working): --- begin ibl quotes -- Have translated that info from Italian but to be quite honest it just gives info on how to administer it and the results of experiments with it.I'll just condense it for you.Its composition is water,simple sugars,organic acida,{ph solution 1+-0,5},purified and sterilised propolis and essential oils.Comes in a liquid form and sold in 1 and 1.5 litres respectively.Before applying, it should be heated to between 35 and 40 degrees celsius in a bain marie and then administered to the colony using a syringe or sprayed directly on the bees between the frames at the rate of 3cc per frame and a total of 25cc per hive.This should be done twice over a period of 16 to 20 days ie 8 to 10 day interval.It is more effective on a sunnless day with temperatures not less than 10 degrees celsius. It can be applied at any time of the beekeeping year{provided the temperature is as above directed}, even over a cluster with the exception that in this case there is just one dose of 50 to 60 ccs.It has been found effective in cases of chalk brood and will also knock down braula.I know nothing of its effects on tracheal mites or any of the other ailments known to affect the bees.This is one of the questions to be asked.They recommend not using it on freshly caught swarms until they have established their new home and just before the new brood have hatched out. Can be used with supers on and experiments have shown no ill effects on bees,honey or queen. This is basically it Tom and now I will just give a brief account of my own experience with it: I used it at the above specifications in late October on 11 double brood hives of the nature of a national and a commercial brood chamber.That previous spring these same hives were checked using bavoral strips for 48 and 72 hours and the maximum mite fall was just 2!! in just 3 of the 11.In October this product showed varroa in all hives.They were checked over a period of 18 days,second treatment after 9 days.The mite drop showed a steady increase up to the 13 and 14 day and then dropping rapidly to tens and twenties.I finished counting them on the 19 day but were still dropping in small numbers.In some hives at the beginning daily numbers of 6 and 7 hundred were to be found culminating in an overall average of 2500 and a maximum of 4020.There was also one or two with just a few hundred.I was also finding transparent mites which am told are to found only in the cells,this is an interesting indication of the strength of this product.On administering the product the bees did'nt seem unduly disturbed,indeed no smoke was required,although there was an ivy flow on at the time which would account for this. Most of the mites were alive but thankfully the floor was vaselined quite well.There was also a good knock down of the braula and again seemed quite a large number were alive and kicking.Clearly ipereat seems impressive and surely deserves a place in IPM.? --- second person commentson ibl --- First: The list of ingredients is too vague to know what chemicals we are dealing with organic acids covers a multitude including the one known to be used for treatment of varroa ( Formic, lactic and oxalic) but might also include others. From the description of dosage I think it probably has oxalic acid as its active ingredient. Similarly for essential oils again this covers a multitude of chemicals. Secondly; the personal experience a test using Bayvarrol for 48 / 72 hours produced a drop down of 2 or 3 mites in some colonies in the SPRING. Spring is when the bees brood nest is expanding rapidly and any self respecting varroa having spent the winter in phoretic state will be in the brood cells procreating like mad. Bayvarrol is not effective on mites in the brood cells ( which is why treatment is for 42 days or two full brood cycles). This could well ex[lain the low levels of drop with the Bayvarrol test. When Varroa was found in the Apiary all the hives should have been TREATED with Bayvarrol for the full 42 days, this does not seem to have been done! >From Dr. Martin's paper a colony with 180 mites in March will reach the critical level of 2,500 mites in September, and this does not include for the further infestation which arises from feral colonies collapsing, robbing etc. So the levels found in October are not surprising. If I am right in the active ingredient being oxalic acid this does not kill the mites in the cells, the pale immatures which were found are a natural product of the mite laying eggs which have not matured before the adult bee emerges from its cell. The male mite and all the immatures perish and will be found on the Vaselined paper when the cell has been cleansed. The story is a lesson to us all: when varroa is found treat it to kill the mites, then monitor the levels by checking the natural drop down of dead mites, and if necessary treat again before mite levels attain too high a level and the colony is likely to collapse. --- end ibl quote -- At any rate, the product is proprietary and the ingredients are not disclosed, other than in very general terms. It may also be an incomplete list. Ipereat appears to be persistent and the reasons for the persistence are not disclosed. I presume your honey is for your own use only, not sale, and I do not know anything about Irish law, but for us selling into international commercial channels -- using such an unapproved product could easily result in condemnation of the entire shipment of honey and any honey with which it is blended -- and even honey from a whole country -- resulting in a nightmare of expense and unnecessary anguish. > A Fogger is on its way to me to use FGMO and by all accounts this is showing good results. FGMO seems to pose some control with little threat of honey contamination. Its efficacy needs to be examined in any particular environment and local parameters established, particularly in view of the large number of applications required in the published work discussed here some time back. FWIW, Californians used oil fog years ago in the very early days of mite problems, but seem to have abandoned it entirely early on. Just for interest sake, for those looking for such a device, I should mention that around here, a Burgess fogger can be picked up off the shelf at Home Depot or one of its clones for about $75 CAD (<$50 USD)last time I looked. > Perhaps others may wish to share their experiences with us using IPM. That is a good idea. I think most of us are using IPM to some extent or another, although our understanding of the term seems to vary. I wonder if the term IPM has different meanings in different parts of the world or in different groups of people, since many seem to use the term IPM in a context of unapproved, 'natural' and/or experimental solutions, while my understanding is much different and includes the idea of using well-studied and officially sanctioned control methods. As I understand IPM, the term merely refers to testing for a pest or pests, comparing results of tests with known benchmarks to determine whether econonomic damage is occurring, or likely to occur, and then applying approved treatments in an intelligent and safe manner. A crucial part of the IPM idea is taking into consideration more factors than just obliterating the foe ASAP. Safety in its many aspects, then testing to see if the treatment worked and repeating the cycle are central to the concept. Rotation of treatment methods and dose optimization are also part of any intelligent approach, to forestall resistance as much as possible, to minimize damage to non-target organisms, and to minimize residues in crops and the environment. > At this stage I could not have less experience in using IPM but I am going to do my best with it. I hope you will consult with your local authorities and follow approved methods, use only approved chemicals, or obtain advice and consent from trained professionals, especially if you are planning to market any honey. The authorities are sometimes annoyingly slow to adopt new methods and materials, but they have many factors to weigh besides immediate apparent efficacy against one pest. > But Danish, Dutch and German beekeepers seem to be handling varroa without chemicals. So why cannot I? Many reports are confused, some are not complete, and some are just plain dishonest or uninformed. Some pretty harsh substances are often not considered 'chemicals' by some people. I don't know why. If Ipereat is not an chemical cocktail, I don't know what is. As for success -- reported here and there -- in living with varroa without harsh treatments, there are many factors involved, including climate, local management techniques and bee stock. We are finding that the experience of beekeepers in other regions with regard varroa does not apply here at all and that the recommendations of others far away are interesting and give us insight, but are simply not applicable. Yes, IPM is what is needed, but what will be observed both before and after treatment -- if required -- will not be consistent between observers in different locations. It may not even be consistent from year to year. Good luck allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 08:30:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Spraying Sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett wrote: > Of course I realise that large commercial beekeepers cannot by and large use > IPM and still show a profit. But that is another question. > > If you visit the Danish Beekeeping site you will find detailed information > on using 'non chemical' treatments. IPM is Integrated Pest Management and is not tied to "non chemical" treatments. You can use a variety of methods, including Apistan, Cumophose and the like and still practice IPM. IPM is a method of assessing when to treat, so unnecessary treatments are avoided (saving money and increasing effectiveness) and is practiced by some commercial operations since it does save money by reducing pesticide use. I do see some problems in the approach you are taking since it is not IPM but the opposite. You are using a variety of "non chemical" (they are all chemicals, BTW. Just most are considered benign. Except for drone trapping.) approaches and by doing so, you have no idea what has worked. I am not a supporter of FGMO, for example. A noted bee researcher tried it and the fogger is now gathering dust. But it has a following and if you disparage it they will protest loudly and proclaim that it is effective. But many use it like you, in conjunction with several other treatments (including Apistan!) so there is no way to measure what worked. Another problem is that the effects of varroa are cyclic and can give a false sense of security. Here in Maine, Varroa counts have been low and over wintering has been exceptional with few losses. So we will have a load of swarms in the spring and restart the feral population. Which means we will recreate a Varroa pool and will see increased colony kills in a couple of years. Meanwhile, all those who have tried the latest and greatest will assume that it has worked and you will read about it on this and other beekeeping lists as being effective. But when Varroa peaks again, you will hear of colony deaths, but not attributed to their treatments, since they "worked" for several years. Few like to admit they were wrong. The mythology surrounding those treatments will continue. You may think this a bit cynical, but I prefer realistic. I have seen too many beekeepers follow the current fad and lose everything. And they are not beekeepers any more. I am the last one in my area, where there were at least five others. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:40:39 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mats Andersson Subject: Re: Menthol and Varroa In-Reply-To: <200204091215.g39BgjIi014632@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Allen wrote: "Since many BEE-L members use the screened bottom boards and some use menthol, can anyone confirm this and, if so, comment on the degree of mite drop? We have started to use menthol in Blue Shop Towels, and wonder if there is a side-effect on the varroa." And i'm curious: What is a "Blue shop towel"? /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 08:40:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Menthol and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Allen and Everyone, A few years back - ok probably several years back - there were reports on = research done in Canada using menthol for varroa control. In the articles = in American Bee Journal menthol seemed to work fairly well as I recall but = the varroa mites had to feed on it for it to have any effect. The = research reported using a microencapsulated form of menthol which was fed = to the bees so the mites got it when they fed on the bees. Have not heard = any more about it so either they have run into problems administering it = or it didn't work out as well as thought. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 07:23:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Menthol and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > > Since many BEE-L members use the screened bottom boards and some use > menthol, can anyone confirm this and, if so, comment on the degree of mite > drop? We have started to use menthol in Blue Shop Towels, and wonder if > there is a side-effect on the varroa. > > NOTE: I am NOT saying this is true, and I do not want to start a mindless > rumour that menthol works on varroa. > Hi Allen and All, I have been using peppermint oil for years and it does not kill the mites. I have all my hives on screens and do not see a change in mite drop. With that said, Varroa reproduction in the cells can be reduced greatly if menthol ( mint ) in the brood nest. ( cells) The relationship between the larva and Female Varroa has been researched by Dr. Harbo. He has found that larva give off a pheromone that induces the mite to lay eggs. Through observation with mint present in the brood nest , mite population will go down. I think it mask's the pheromones of the larva. The problem for beekeepers is getting the mint (menthol) in the cells. I did put peppermint oil in a jar with Varroa and it did not kill the Varroa. By the way, all peppermint oils you buy are NOT equal..Thats a subject all by itself. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:00:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: low synthetic mite use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is evidence that Denmark has low reliance on synthetic miticides. Hugo Thone wrote: <...this is definitely NOT true ! In Belgium (as well as in Holland)beekeepers have been using Apistan (fluvalinate) with success for approx. 15 years, until the mite wun the battle by becoming resistent to fluvalinate. Now the official Belgian beekeeping orgnizations recommend (+ sponsor) the use of Apivar (amitraz) + Perizin (coumaphos). According to a March 2001 survey, only 14% of Danish beekeepers and 22% of Danish colonies are treated with synthetic acaricides (Bayvarol, Bayticol or Perizin). By contrast, 86% of beekeepers and 77% of colonies were treated with a combination of "apicultural techniques, physical methods and organic acids". The most widely used organic acid was formic acid, which was accounted for approximately 80% of organic acid use (formic, oxalic and lactic acid). Although heavier reliance in synthetic miticide use was observed among beekeepers with more than 200 colonies, fewer than 40% of larger Danish beekeepers used synthetic acaricides. Similar trends have been reported in Ontario, Canada, where a terrific effort be beekeepers and their technology transfer group greatly increased the use of formic acid. Over 80% of Ontario beekeepers are reported to use formic acid. Broodsgaard, C. J. H. Hansen, H. F. Brodsgaard and J. Jakobsen. 2001. Beekeeping in Denmark 2000: A survey based on questionnaires to skilled beekeepers and beeinspectors. Danmarks JordbrugsForskning. 45: 1-94. Regards, Adony ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: low synthetic mite use MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adony Melathopoulos wrote: >The most widely used organic acid was formic acid, which was accounted for approximately 80% of organic acid use (formic, oxalic and lactic acid). Although heavier reliance in synthetic miticide use was observed among beekeepers with more than 200 colonies, fewer than 40% of larger Danish beekeepers used synthetic acaricides. > > Similar trends have been reported in Ontario, Canada, where a terrific effort be beekeepers and their technology transfer group greatly increased the use of formic acid. Over 80% of Ontario beekeepers are reported to use formic acid. My understanding is that the Ontario Beekeepers use a combination of Formic and Apistan, not Formic exclusively - which I note you did not say but it could be infered. It is a rotating schedule to lengenthen out Apistan's life. At least that is what I remember from Medhat's comments at last year's Maine State Beekeepers meeting. Plus, in Europe, where resistance is fairly widespread, I also would be using the acids since the synthetics might not or would not be effective. Oxalic Acid has been used successfully by a beekeeper in Maine last year. Got good mite drop from Cumophose resistant bees. I am awaiting his results this year. Bill Truesdell Bath, Me. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Van Roekel, Bill" Subject: Subject line suggestion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I strongly encourage all who submit ideas to this list to change the subject line to match the topic you wish to discuss. I do not read every item sent in, I base my decision to delete or read an item on the SUBJECT. I just finished reading 3 submissions which had nothing to do with the subject line. How much information that I am interested in reading do I miss because the topic listed is not of interest?? I will never know, because I have no desire to wade through each submission to see if it is really about what the subject line indicates. Please, please, please, do not just hit reply on a random message. Take the time to change the subject line to reflect the topic. I enjoy this list, have learned a lot, and intend to learn more, but when the subject indicated does not match the subject discussed, I will continue to miss out on what may be items that are important to me. Thanks, Bill Van Roekel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:12:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Finding Resistant Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In our examining samples for a neighbour, we came across one that had the most varroa we have seen in a sample this spring. There were seventeen varroa mites in one sample of roughly 300 bees -- 5.35%, as it works out using the actual numbers -- in the alcohol wash. The yard had been treated with Apistan a year ago. Yards treated identically (AFAIK) in our own outfit are returning zero varroa in all the washes we have done so far. We are recommending that he sample that yard again for varroa, add two strips of ApistanŽ and do an alcohol wash again in three or four days. If Apistan is still working, then there should be few, if any phoretic mites after the first two days according to my understanding, since Apistan should knock down virtually all the phoretic mites within a few days -- if they are susceptible. A friend sent me the latest info on testing for resistance, and it involves exposing a caged sample of bees from a hive with significant phoretic varroa to a predetermined dose of fluvalinate and monitoring the mite fall and detecting any mites not killed by the Apistan. I'm wondering if what we are doing is a good enough quick-and-dirty field test to assure ourselves that the beekeeper in question is still getting adequate response to Apistan -- without going to all the bother of the more elaborate test until later? What have others found? allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:17:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Subject: Re: Menthol and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Blane, Blane mentioned: "there were reports on research done in Canada using menthol for varroa control. In the articles in American Bee Journal The research reported using a microencapsulated form of menthol which was fed to the bees so the mites got it when they fed on the bees." This report was regarding tracheal mites not Varroa. The microencapsulated showed a modest control of tracheal mites. medhat Medhat Nasr, Ph. D. Blueberry and Cranberry Research Center Rutgers University, Chatsworth, New Jersey 08019, USA Ph. 609-726-1590 Ex 25 Fax. 609-726-1593 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:23:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Menthol and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Medhat, Thanks for correcting me on the menthol research. Menthol for tracheal = mites thymol for varroa I guess. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:36:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Finding Resistant Mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Allen and Everyone, I tried the jar test for fluvalinate developed by Jeff Pettis a few years = back but had difficulty getting consistent samples ( the method used = paired samples from each of several hives ). The more consistent field = test when fluvalinate resistance did show up was any method of checking = varroa population after treatment. In our experience within a week of = putting in the strips you should have low levels of varroa on the bees. = You may find a few mites on an ether roll or alcohol wash due to mites = emerging from the brood but in the situation you described you would = expect pretty high numbers if the treatment is not working. If you do the = check a little more than two weeks after the strips are put in all the = brood that was infested before the strips were inserted should have = emerged and you would expect to find only very few or more likely no = varroa on your test at that point. Full treatment failure is very easy to = see but partial treatment is more difficult to detect since you may have = many mites on the sticky board at first but still not get enough for a = fully effective treatment. The result of course is very high mite levels = fairly soon after treatment and often colony losses. Treat and check back to make sure the treatment worked. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: low synthetic mite use In-Reply-To: <200204100400.g3A3pfHE016263@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >According to a March 2001 survey, only 14% of Danish beekeepers and >22% of Danish colonies are treated with synthetic acaricides This is interesting news. What species of mite have the Danish beekeepers got? ; ) -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:27:48 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?koi8-r?B?8NLP1MHTIOEu5i4=?= Subject: HELP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sers, It may be somebody new about use of wax moth extract in apitherapy. There are data, that it`s used for treatment asthmas and a = tuberculosis. Unfortunately, it is not enough these data. Sincerely, Alexandre PROTAS ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:46:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Finding Resistant Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The more consistent field test when fluvalinate resistance did show up was any method of checking varroa population after treatment. In our experience within a week of putting in the strips you should have low levels of varroa on the bees. Thanks Blane. After looking at the Pettis protocol and thinking about the real world situation, it looked to me to be more work and more precision than we need for the job at hand. All we want to know is whether the treatment worked reasonably well -- or not. We will also want to know if the next treatment with the same method will work too, but that should answer itself in time if we keep monitoring the levels, and we will regularly now that we see what appears to be a failure of treatment. These bees are in another beekeeper's outfit, so at this point and from my POV, bad technique, accidental omission, or bad strips (left in the sun?) are as likely guesses as resistance. Why assume and test for the worst case right off the bat? We can do that next week if the follow-up test shows poor efficacy. Given our resources, and timeframe ,and the number of yards under consideration, simply treating the worst yards and monitoring should soon tell us if we are getting the degree of control that Apistan (r) is famous for providing. If not, then and only then, the question of why arises. Then the solution is to remedy the situation by applying another method. That may mean using an alternate control agent or just being more careful. IPM again. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:40:05 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robt Mann Subject: Re: True Story In-Reply-To: <200204090435.g393J6KE007042@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tim Vaughan recounted a v interesting anecdote tending to support the inference that his Scuts foretold a sudden hailstorm. The impression that some animals can sense impending violent acts of nature is quite common and has been taken seriously by some researchers. For at least 3 decades the Chinese govt has been researching various animal behaviours in attempt to foretell earthquakes. I've not tried to keep up with the results, but already within the 1980s they were claiming some interesting discoveries. If beekeeping could be better organised, some reporting of 'research hints', leading to systematic exploration of possible sensings such as Tim recounts, might get done. R ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:46:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Got.honey@AOL.COM Subject: Re: True Story Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think you have an excellent idea...if there was some way to do collaborative research. There are so many eyes and ears of the collective BEE-L@LISTSERV membership. If we could develop and respond to proposals in some organized fashion our collective experiences would have great weight. A single or few researchers can better organize about a bee topic but hundreds of us could bring a statistical significance that could shorten the time to results. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:04:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: True Story In-Reply-To: <200204110349.g3B3dGGk022535@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I think you have an excellent idea...if there was some way to do collaborative research. A few comments based on experience - yes, this is an excellent idea and can be done. We did it with about 120 beekeepers in Seattle/Tacoma/Whidbey Island in the early 80's and got the findings published in SCIENCE - one of the most respected and widely read of the science journals, with followups in the bee journals - ABJ, etc. As far as bees and weather, our electronic hives in MD, TX, Mississippi, and MT all show that bees anticipate and hurry home before thunderstorms - beginning to arrive about 20 minutes ahead of the rain. Now, for the reality check. Marcia at the National Honey Board has been trying to get honey samples to establish background levels for adulterated honey, and other studies such as the antibacterial properties of certain varietal honeys. for some she need small vials of honey, for others about a pound. Her project is posted on the National Honey Board web page. She will provide containers, guidelines, etc. I forwarded her request to the list some weeks ago. SO FAR, Marcia has only heard from a few beekeepers. Surely most of us could spare some honey for these experiments, or let her know that we can and will get the varietal honey's that she needs in the upcoming season. So, I'm challenging the "good idea". Here is an opportunity to do exactly that - a group research project that should benefit the industry and cost each of us very little time and honey. Please contact Marcia at the Honey Board today. Thanks Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:16:49 -0400 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: True Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim Vaughan said: > ...unusually still, no bugs chirping, etc... > ....just as I was opening the door for her to enter with the last of the > laundry, one of those South African hail storms hit. Wind to bend trees > over, loudness, then hard rain. For those interested in gathering data on this issue, get a barometer. I've seen this phenomena, and the behavior appears to correlate to sudden drops in air pressure, which often preclude storms. I had lots of chances to observe this, since in South Florida, it rained nearly every day between May and October at almost exactly 4pm for about 15 mins. How do bees and other animals detect air pressure changes? No idea. Could it be some other factor? Sure, but what? Are all storms "announced" by a drop in air pressure? Not all, but most. If you want to know in advance when to go check on bee flight operations, http://www.weather.com has some decent maps made from a mix of doppler and "NexRad" radars. We who work the day shift at the idea factory use the two images listed below to decide between afternoons of bits, bytes, and nanoseconds, or afternoons of bees, buds, and bumming around. http://image.weather.com/web/radar/us_ric_closeradar_large_usen.jpg http://maps.weather.com/images/maps/lightning/ec_lightning_720x486.jpg One of our dogs (a Corgi) also predicts bad weather with excellent accuracy. He will "announce" storms by moving to a position directly at one's feet and whimpering. He does not like storms in the least, which is a perfectly valid point of view for a herding dog. jim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:59:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Marcia, National Honey Board, Honey Samples Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some folks had the same problem that I did, finding the phone number on the web page. Its buried several layers down. Thanks Jerry National Honey Board 390 Lashley St., Longmont, CO 80501-6045 Phone: 303-776-2337 Fax: 303-776-1177 URL: http://www.nhb.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:46:49 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Robt Mann Subject: BACTERIA, FUNGI COULD BUG TERMITES TO DEATH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This reminds us that the search by biologists for biological controls of pests has, by & large, paid off - without creating any novel hazards. Better study of what already exists is the way to go. No need to play God. R BACTERIA, FUNGI COULD BUG TERMITES TO DEATH, SAYS STUDY Bacteria and fungi could soon join pesticides in controlling termites, responsible for causing millions of dollars in damage to homes and forests in the United States each year, government researchers said Thursday. Scientists at the U.S. Department of Agriculture said they had found one bacterium and two fungi that can kill nearly 100 percent of the Formosan subterranean termite population within a week without harming humans or plants. Source: Reuters http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/04/04122002/reu_46927.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:46:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: The Shortest Wintering in Lithuania MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beefriends This year we watched early activity of our bees. On February 3 in Kaunas region was registered the earliest fly-over of bees during all monitoring time. It was a full fly-over of all bee colonies. Almost all beehives were cleaned by bees. Until this year the earliest fly-over is registered on February 12, 1974. On the other hand, recent autumn our bees had a late last fly-over (November 1). The average autumn fly-over takes place on October 10. Therefore, the wintering time was the shortest of all cases registered till now. It continued only 94 days, while the perennial average wintering time is 152 days. As you see our bees had a very short and successful winter this season. Last Saturday I watched my bees already bringing pollen from the pussy willows and coltsfoot blossoms. Best wishes Rimantas Zujus e-mail : zujus@mail.lei.lt ICQ 4201422 http://gytis.lei.lt/~zujus/ http://www.lei.lt/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:09:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Finding Resistant Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen and All, > What have others found? The best method to find resistant to fluvalinate mites is to use another chemical for 24 hours with a sticky board two weeks into the Apistan treatment and then again after the treatment is done. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:13:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: True story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/04/02 05:04:28 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << How do bees and other animals detect air pressure changes? >> They do have internal air sacs in their abdomens. Presumably a sudden drop in external air pressure would cause the internal sacs to expand and give the bees a sensation, tummy ache perhaps, that suggests they head for home. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:55:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any information on how far a swarm will go from its parent hive? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:58:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I remember correctly from a class I took honey supers should not be put on until you have 2" of capped honey in your top box (along the top of the frames) comments? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:10:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: bees perception of weather changes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: After 7 years of running bee hives with flight counters and simultaneous weather measurements, up to 50 hives at locations in MT, MD, TX, Mississippi - we offer the following: 1. Bees know when a thunderstorm is approaching and head home about 20 minutes ahead of the RAIN. 2. They reportedly can sense barometric pressure changes, but the pressure does not always drop before the clouds open and dump, yet the bees still come home. Overall, we can only make a weak case for barometric pressure. 3. Bees respond to strongly to solar radiation (and not simply light intensity). Whether this is a direct stimulus or a secondary effect because of the influence of solar radiation on plants and things like nectar release is unknown. But, under good flight conditions (reasonably calm and warm with flowers in blossom), the overall flight activity of a colony seems to almost synchronize with changes in solar radiation levels. 4. Turn a colony away from the sun in the morning and it will start to fly 30-60 minutes later than a colony with the entrance facing the sun. 5. We suspect that bees sense an array of weather variables, don't just key on one or two. So, if the winds picking up, temp dropping, solar radiation decreasing AND THE BAROMETRIC pressue is dropping, like you and I, it adds up to a storm on the way. No reason why they'd make decisions about whether to fly out of the hive or return based on ONE variable. And, our data and models indicate that sometimes bees just don't know, anymore than we always make the right prediction. In other words, some days, all of the colonies race home before the storm, or all of them ignore the clouds on the horizon -- and the storm sweeps around, missing the yard. But on some days, some of the colonies race home, others don't, and some mill about (can't quite decide whether to make another trip or not). Cheers Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:18:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Distances Swarms Move Comments: cc: joschmid@u.arizona.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rodney Farrar asked: >Any information on how far a swarm will go from its parent hive? Schmidt and Thoenes studied that problem. One can find some of their results in the December 1990 issue of the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL, pages 811-812. With respect to the question asked, they wrote (in part): "...European swarms typically travel about 250 to 500m from the parent colony, with shorter distances (e.g., 100m) and longer distances (e.g., 1000m being relatively less common." They furnished me with their original results, which we worked into a graph. One can view that graph as Figure 6 in Item #15 on the following web site: www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm Although the scale shown in that figure is in logarithms, 2.0 means 100m and 3.0 means 1000m (or yards, close enough), values that corresponded with those in the above quotation. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 [http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm] ***************************************************** * * "We not only believe what we see: * to some extent we see what we believe." * * Richard Gregory (1970) * ***************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Organization: Oregon VOS Subject: Re: bees perception of weather changes In-Reply-To: <200204131617.g3DFbUVh022290@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Were you able to check on a reaction to a build up of electrical charge? Would that help explain flights home even when barometric pressures were static? On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > 2. They reportedly can sense barometric pressure changes, but the pressure > does not always drop before the clouds open and dump, yet the bees still > come home. Overall, we can only make a weak case for barometric pressure. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, Raw Honey | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:23:35 -0500 Reply-To: Golden S Bee Ranch Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Golden S Bee Ranch Subject: West Virginia Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have any experience to share regarding the West Virginia Queens? I have been unable to find much information at all on the web and none in the archives. I have some on order to arrive later this month. What little I have read sounds promising, but I wondered if anyone had practical experience. Thanks, Tim Tim Stalnaker BeeRanch@Multipro.com Golden S Bee Ranch Rock Island, TN USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:20:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Loss of the old honey program MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, James wrote: > > So, at least in 1994, dollar-value numbers turned out to be a > > self-inflicted gunshot > > wound to the foot of every beekeeper who had hoped to "save" > > the honey program. Truer words were never spoken! I commend Jim on his knowledge of the situation. Many beekeepers still do not clearly see why the industry lost the honey program. Thankfully the present leadership of the national organizations understood why their predecessors were unsuccessful and got the program reinstated. Too late to keep a close friend from losing his business. I hold no animosity to the prior leadership and only point out reasons for the prior failure as James did. The leadership of the AHPA and ABF get heavy criticism when things do not go as promised and rarely (if ever) get commended for their accomplishments. I commend both groups and their leaders on their recent accomplishments. Sadly I agree with Dr. Shilling (ABF convention 2002) that protectionism will not work in the long run . Increasing productivity by 17 times seems out of reach also. Dr. Shilling used the example that the U.S. farmer is 17 times as productive now while over the same time period the U.S. beekeeper still has the same honey production average per hive (in some states less) as a 100 years ago. I am always asked about the four large beekeeping operations which closed last year in Missouri. Why did they quit after so many years people ask? One started in the 20's, one in the 50's, one in the late 60's and the last in the early 70's. The issue is complex so I would appreciate help with a single sentence to explain quickly to non beekeepers. All help appreciated. Sincerely, Bob Harrison American Beekeeper Endangered species (from 2001 National Honey Board T shirt available from NHB) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:16:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Barrett Subject: Mite thresholds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I am presently working on some beekeeping lectures, and am attempting to draw together information on the analysis of infestation by varroa by counting the mites which fall to the sticky board through natural causes, and using tables to determine if the treatment threshold is reached. Steve Martin, who issued a Varroa Calculator in the UK, has issued the following table to convert fallen varroa into an estimate of the number of mites in the hive, by multiplying the fallen varroa by the multiplier. Month Multiplier JAN 400 FEB 400 MAR 100* APR 100* MAY 30 JUN 30 JUL 30 AUG 30 SEP 100* OCT 100* NOV 400 DEC 400 The figures asterisked are somewhat imprecise due to the colony and mite number expanding and contracting rapidly. Thus if a daily mite fall of 100 mites were counted in June the estimate of the total mites would be in the region of 3000. The problem with which I need help is as follows: Investigations carried out in the UK showed, that if there are more than 2500 mites in the colony that immediate treatment is required. But I have data from the Swiss Bee Research to say that if more than 30 mites fall per day that the colony is heading for trouble. This would mean that if the above table be used that 900 mites would be the threshold in June. Perhaps this difference is explained by differences in climate between the UK and Switzerland or perhaps there is some other explanation, eg both figures are incorrect. It would appear essential that if non acaricide treatments are used that some reliable data must be available to determine if the colony is headed for the threshold to find out if the treatments are working. It would also seem important to know this data, to establish if an acaricide treatment is now dealing with resistant mites. As always any help will be most appreciated. Sincerely Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:15:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: upper entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, Here in south eastern Ontario we have had a wet spring, with tastes of = sunny warm weather. The pussy willows have been out here for almost a = month but no pollen on them yet. I see the hives starting to bring in = some pollen last week, but small amounts. Hopefully this week should = bring some sun and warmth. All of my hives survived the winter in good = shape this year. Although it was a mild winter with not much snow. =20 I have been searching the archives regarding using the upper entrances = but I didn't see any with a follow up. The design I mean is a upper = entrance with out the conventional lower entrance. Is there anyone on = the list that does not use a lower entrance? Someone had posted a link = regarding an experiment that was reported through ABJ back in 1985 using = this method.=20 Kent Stienburg ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:38:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Supers In-Reply-To: <200204140400.g3E3sPUb003416@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" question: >If I remember correctly from a class I took honey supers should not be put on >until you have 2" of capped honey in your top box (along the top of the >frames) comments? reply: I have always felt that there was no harm in putting supers on *in advance* of the anticipated honey flow. I would put one on and see if they use it. If they start filling it up, add another. I do not believe there is any harm done by supering "prematurely". I also do not believe there is any advantage to putting the new one under the old one. In fact, a long term study done in the vicinity of Ottawa demonstrated *no difference* between under and over supering and pointed out that even if there were a difference, under supering requires *considerably* more labor. But I am sure this has been discussed at length before. -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:40:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Tooley Subject: Re: Loss of the old honey program In-Reply-To: <200204141854.g3EIqMUJ012596@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Harrison wrote: . > The issue is complex so I would appreciate help with a single sentence to > explain quickly to non beekeepers. All help appreciated. "Too much cheap foreign honey ,delivered here at a price below our cost of production."You cannot compete against the government of China,which is what American beekeepers are being forced to due.Protectionism may be a bad word to some,but for right now its all we have.If this keeps up ,we had all better learn to speak Mandarin. --Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:46:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Bees perception of weather changes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tim Vaughan, Robert Mann, and Jerry Bromenshenk provided information about bees' perception of weather changes. Some might find interesting some of Virgil's comments, about 50 B.C., in the Georgics (Book IV): "...At dawn they pour from the gates --- no loitering; again, when the star of eve has warned them to withdraw from their pasture in the fields, then they seek their homes....Nor yet, if rain impend, do they stray far from their stalls, or trust the sky when eastern gales are near, but round about, beneath the shelter of their city walls, draw water, and essay short flights..." Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 [http://www.beesource.com/pov/wenner/index.htm] ***************************************************** * * "We not only believe what we see: * to some extent we see what we believe." * * Richard Gregory (1970) * *****************************************************