From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 07:45:41 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-89.7 required=2.4 tests=AWL,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Delivered-To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A9349092 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SCLoXr010061 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:28:38 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0205A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Message-ID: Content-Length: 122708 Lines: 2765 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:59:52 -0500 Reply-To: John Cunningham Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Cunningham Subject: Crystalized syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I use high fructose 42 syrup to feed, got a good deal on it. I am = having a problem with it crystallizing. I warm a barrel of it and pump = it into gallon jugs in the evening to use the next day but by morning it = has crystallized in the jug. Anybody else had this problem and solved it? John Cunningham ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:56:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Storage of package bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Steve & All, > I am hoping that someone on the list has information on the > optimal storage conditions for package bees. > 50 TO 60 degrees F. > I am sure that temperature > plays a role as well as feeding the bees on the outside of the cluster > that are removed from the feeder can and can't access moisture as well as > those bees that are in the center. > Yes, it is a good idea to spray 50/50 sugar syrup on the bees in the packages upon arrival, spraying on of plain water periodically is also advisable. > I understand that the faster the bees > get into the hive the better it is for both the beekeeper and the bees. > What I am trying to get information on is how long, and under what > conditions can I store bees in the package while waiting for fellow > beekeepers to pick them up and hive them. > Package bees were developed to survive for up to five to seven days, But can survive a little longer if treated respectfully. Keep them in a cool (50 to 60 degrees F.), dry, dark location, out of the sun. never let them over heat (At 80 degrees F. bees will soon die). Explaining these requirements to new beekeepers will help make them better beekeepers. . .. c(((([ Keith Malone Chugiak, Alaska USA kdmalone@ideafamilies.org http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ Check out current weather in my area and 5 day forecast; http://www.wx.com/myweather.cfm?ZIP=99654 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 00:00:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: screened bottom boards >a literature reference to the Cornell studies Mr. Borst mentioned showing screen boards have no effect on mite populations. Hi Mark: I seem to vaguely remember that Nick Calderone may have mentioned something to that effect in an article in Bee Culture. Hopefully someone else can come up with something more concrete. Regards, Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:27:45 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Marking Hives with Odors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kyle & all > some beekeepers mark their hives with a bold geometric > pattern, to keep bees oriented to their own hive, > to cut down on drifting. I have not done this with honey production hives, but I have used geometric patterns on mating hives... I have many mating nucs with roofs that are hinged to the boxes. Each roof is hand made to a different overall shape and has wooden blocks screwed to it to form a unique pattern. The pattern blocks are painted black and the body of the roof is painted white, this give a 3 dimensional component to the pattern and so as an orienting bee or queen is spiralling around they see a different view of the pattern according to the direction they are. I do this because I mount the nucs on the vertical posts about 2 metres apart in a three rail fence which is otherwise a completely regular pattern that could easily confuse returning queens. > Here's an idea. Mark the hives in this situation with an odor. This looks a good idea, but I would think the odour would drift about on the wind in a variable fashion and so the smell at a distance may actually mislead them. I reckon the bees eyesight would be important at long distances with a smell marker coming into play at very short distances. Like so many things in beekeeping, that we take for granted, it needs testing. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Bees not consuming extender patties? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, all. Adding a tablespoon of (your own) honey to each patty will cause the bees to consume them at an acceptable rate, even on the top hive body. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:21:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Fellow Amateurs - A Lesson Learned! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Last year I had a hive in two deeps which the bees had stuck together. > In late summer, I told myself I would use a trick I had read about - use > piano wire to separate the burr/bridge comb... Well - I never did. A good trick in a case like this is to lay the hive down backwards, using a ladder or some such support (probably wouldn't be needed in this case, since it won't fall apart when you have it halfway down). Then you separate the boxes a bit and can work on separating the top bars with a hive tool (you do have a hive tool, I trust? -- screwdrivers just don't compare). This way, gravity is not working against you, and the returning bees won't be attacking you -- assuming you place a catch box on a floor on the original stand. As you separate the boxes, one at a time, you can scrape the top bars and bottom bars and set the hive back up. When the brood boxes are on end, the bees will not come boiling onto the top bars the way they do when it is upright, so scraping goes nicely using just a bit of smoke. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:58:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Robbing bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tim Stalnaker asked a couple of weeks back: >”...robbers eventually become smooth, shiny, and almost black."..... Could someone explain the physical change in appearance? Robber bees aren’t just field foragers. They are also combat veterans. Their smooth shiny appearance comes from fighting with guard bees in the colonies they are robbing from. Once they’ve been trained to locate a honey source in other colonies, they may continue searching for additional colonies to attack. Regards, Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 07:28:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Screened bottom boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Greetings I have been working at Cornell for three years now and we have tested screened bottoms every summer. They have been tried in a variety of situations. Last year they were tried on hives in four apiaries. Each yard had 16 hives and half had screened bottoms, half did not. I did not see or measure any beneficial effect from them. Infested hives succumbed to mites at the same rate whether screens were present or not. The original studies done by the US government showed *no significant difference* with or without. This result has been replicated by Cornell studies, many times. The research community does not support the idea that screened bottoms do anything alone; a few people say that when used in connection with fumigants or apicides, they may enhance the effect of these substances. I have asked this group repeatedly to show studies proving their effectiveness. -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 07:52:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Lescord Subject: Crystallized Frames of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone with suggestions how to feed crystallized frames of honey back to the bees? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:07:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Hanlin, Steve" Subject: Crystallized syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 John: I use about 30 barrels of 55% high fructose corn syrup a year here at the North Central Plant Introduction Station in Ames Iowa. We either dilute the syrup by half or a 1:3 ratio of water to syrup depending on the time of the year. This makes the syrup somewhat less viscous and we have never had a problem with crystallizing even after a week in our buckets. However, we do have problems with after a year, the syrup crystallizing along the sides and in the bottom of the barrels. A solution which was given to me for this problem and which might work for you also, is to put a small amount of water in the container prior to placing the syrup in. An example for a 55 gallon barrel is to put about 3 to 4 inches of water (approximately 1/5 of the barrel) and then pump the syrup in. When the syrup does crystallize in the barrel, we pump out most of the liquid as feed, break up the sugar and place a comparable or slightly greater amount of HOT water to dissolve the sugar. The liquid can then be used for feed and there is no loss of syrup. Steve J. Hanlin USDA; ARS North Central Regional Plant Introdution Station State Ave. & Mortensen Rd. Ames, IA 50011 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:34:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LLOYDSPEAR Subject: Screened Bottom Boards-What use are they? Two or three members of this list asked where researchers from Cornell had published their data on screen bottom boards. Peter Borst seemed to avoid answering the question, although he is employed by the principal researcher, Nick Calderone, and did considerable grunt work in Calderone's assessment of the efficacy of screen bottoms. At our last New York State meeting (December, 2001 ?), Dr. Calderone provided a verbal report. To the best of my knowledge, and I watch for such things, no paper or article has been presented. However, Dr. Calderone is extremely well respected and I am inclined to believe that the lack of a written report is due more to the press of other work than it is to any hesitation concerning the data or methodology. Bluntly, I recall Calderone said he could not find any relationship between the use of screen bottom boards and Varroa populations or honey production. However, I do not recall Calderone saying that screen bottom boards increased Varroa, or decreased honey production. The first reference I recall that screen bottom boards might be used for control of Varroa was in 1999, by Shimanuki and Pettis (ABJ 143(6): 471-473). They demonstrated that colonies with screen bottoms had significantly fewer Varroa early in the season than did colonies on solid bottoms. However, later in the season Varroa populations caught up with those on bees in hives with solid bottoms. Shimanuki and Pettis speculated that screen bottoms might be very useful as part of an IPM program, but said they could not be relied upon as a sole means of control. Since, their conclusions have been repeated by several other researchers, most notably Sammataro. So, while Peter Borst is correct in stating that no researcher has stated that screen bottoms can be used as a sole control, several continue to be of the view that they will be useful as part of an IPM strategy. Until recently, my personal view has been "why would anyone use a solid board"? I have never seen any indication that use of a solid board is of benefit when compared with use of a screen board. Moreover, a solid board is considerably more expensive and heavier than a screen board, and hives on screen boards (with proper upper ventilation) never develop the large bee beards commonly seen in hot weather. I have converted almost all my hives to screen boards. As reported a couple of weeks ago, new research in Canada has demonstrated a downside to screen boards. Apparently Varroa is much more sensitive to high temperatures than are honey bees, and that accounts for the fact that Varroa is not a significant problem in tropic climates. Since screen boards reduce hive temperatures, the Canadian researchers apparently conclude that they actually promote Varroa reproduction! (This could account for Shimanuki's and Pettis's observations that while screen boards initially have a significant effect on reducing Varroa populations, by the end of a honey season Varroa populations in hives with screen bottoms are equal to those in hives with solid bottoms.) Personally, I am keeping my solid bottoms but putting all new hives on screens and advising those making initial purchases to buy screens only. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frank I. Reiter" Subject: Do bees darken? In-Reply-To: <200205021156.g42BnEUh001471@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This spring I placed a small "fountain" (with no pump) near my bee yard with the intention of providing a close-by source of water during the dry times of the year when the bees might otherwise have to travel much farther to find any. Although everything is pretty soggy, they are using it already and the other day I had a wonderful opportunity to get down on my stomach just inches away from it and watch the bees very closely, as well as taking a few pictures. One thing that I was able to capture on film (well, on a memory card actually) was something I *thought* I had noticed last year already. Most of my bees have two pale yellow bands at the rear of their abdomens and three orange ones closer to the thorax, with black bands between the coloured ones. The orange colour is very obvious on most of the bees. Some tiny percentage of the bees however seem to lack the orange colour. Pictures of both can be seen here: http://www.blessedbee.ca/honeybees/ourbees/having_a_drink.htm I am at a loss to explain this. Do bees darken as they age? Could it be because the dark ones are over-wintered bees? (I don't think so - I was noticing this already last summer.) I have only two colonies at present so if the difference were colony based I should be seeing as many black as orange bees. To the best of my knowledge there are no other beekeepers nearby, and if there were I can't imagine that their bees would fly past thousands of puddles to drink at my bee yard. (In light of recent message I should mention that I have observed no robbing behaviour) Any thoughts? ----- The very act of seeking sets something in motion to meet us; something in the universe, or in the unconscious responds as if to an invitation. - Jean Shinoda Bolen http://WWW.BlessedBee.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:30:30 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: michael palmer Subject: Re: Fellow Amateurs - A Lesson Learned! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > use> piano wire to separate the burr/bridge comb... > > A good trick in a case like this is to lay the hive down backwards, using a > ladder or some such support Unless the hive has been worked recently, most any hive can be tipped onto its back without any support. I reverse all by colonies, and all (some 3 stories) are tipped first. > > As you separate the boxes, one at a time, you can scrape the top bars and > bottom bars and set the hive back up. Oh...you use the ladder to set it back up? Kirk Webster and Bill Mraz have each made a special device for tipping hives. It acts a bit like a hand truck, or barrel truck. Engage the forks under the back of the hive, and pull the hive backward onto the tipper. The hive is raised to a workable height. Bill's came first, I think. His is made of metal tubing, and is quite slick. Very engineered (he was an engineer with General Dynamics.) It even has a basket that catched the burr comb scrapings. Kirk's is made of hardwood...furniture grade appliance, as is everything else he builds. Besides the basket, it has places to hang combs. I have put this on the top of my list for next winter. Mike > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:45:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards In-Reply-To: <200205021157.g42BnEV9001471@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Efficacy of a bottom screen device, ApistanJ , and ApilifeVARJ in controlling Varroa destructor . Ellis, James D., Jr., Keith S. Delaplane, & W.Michael Hood. 2001. American Bee Journal 141(11): 813-816 ABSTRACT This study tested the efficacy of a hive bottom screen device in controlling varroa mites, when used alone or in conjunction with the miticides ApistanJ and ApilifeVARJ. Thirty six colonies were equalized and each assigned to one of six treatments: (1) no treatment, (2) bottom screen, (3) Apistan, (4) Apistan + screen, (5) Apilife, and (6) Apilife + screen. Adult bee populations were not affected by treatment, but the number of brood cells was significantly reduced in colonies treated exclusively with Apilife compared to that of colonies treated with Apistan or exclusively with a bottom screen. Brood production was numerically highest in colonies treated exclusively with a bottom screen. Varroa populations were significantly reduced in colonies receiving acaricide compared to non-treated colonies. Varroa populations in colonies treated exclusively with a bottom screen were 14.9 % lower than that of non-treated colonies, but this difference was not significant. The bottom screen did not affect the percentage of varroa mite population phoretic on adult bees. Apistan provided 100% mite control in South Carolina whereas in Georgia it provided 0% control in colonies treated exclusively with Apistan. With the addition of a bottom screen, Apistan-treated colonies in Georgia experienced an average mite control of 44.3%. This suggests that fluvalinate resistance exists in Georgia varroa mites. It also indicates that a bottom screen may help compensate for reduced acaricide efficacy. Average efficacy of Apilife ranged from 65.2 - 97.1%. " http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Research/archives.htm I'm sure Cornell can get a copy of the full research (and suprised you don't already subscribe to the publication of such in your own field, since there are so few doing research). -----Original Message----- From: Peter Borst I have been working at Cornell for three years now ... The research community does not support the idea that screened bottoms do anything alone; a few people say that when used in connection with fumigants or apicides, they may enhance the effect of these substances. I have asked this group repeatedly to show studies proving their effectiveness. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garret Martin Subject: Graftless Queen Rearing? I am looking at starting to experiment with raising Queens. I was considering a graftless system. One is a Jenter system and there are several others made by other suppliers. Does anyone have experience with how well these work and is one brand better than the others as they claim? Also anyone just itching to give advice on Queen rearing would be greatly appreciated. Garrett Martin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:23:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: waldig Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards-What use are they? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do we know above what temperature threshold Varroa start feeling uncomfortable and perish ? Would it be at the point when a 'bee beard' starts forming ? Thank you, Waldemar >>> As reported a couple of weeks` ago, new research in Canada has demonstrated > a downside to screen boards. Apparently Varroa is much more sensitive to > high temperatures than are honey bees, and that accounts for the fact that > Varroa is not a significant problem in tropic climates. Since screen boards > reduce hive temperatures, the Canadian researchers apparently conclude that > they actually promote Varroa reproduction! (This could account for > Shimanuki's and Pettis's observations that while screen boards initially > have a significant effect on reducing Varroa populations, by the end of a > honey season Varroa populations in hives with screen bottoms are equal to > those in hives with solid bottoms.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 00:35:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Screened bottom boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter wrote: ...a few people say that when used in connection with fumigants or apicides, they may enhance the effect of these substances. I have asked this group repeatedly to show studies proving their effectiveness. Apicides? Yikes! I can think of two that report an effect of screened bottom boards (SBB) in conjunction with miticides, although one is published and the other is in press. J. D. Ellis, K. S. Delaplane and W. M. Hood. 2001. Efficacy of bottom screen device, Apistan and Apilife VAR, in controlling Varroa destructor. ABJ Nov: 813-816. - Although SBB provided little varroa control on their own (15% fewer varroa after 50 days compared to colonies with no SBB and no miticide), they had two immediately useful effects: 1) reduced variability in varroa control among the thymol treatments and 2) 44% control of varroa in Apistan resistant colonies treated with Apistan (compared to 0% among Apistan-treated colonies without SBB). Adony ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 01:21:16 -0400 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards-What use are they? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear said: >...So, while Peter Borst is correct in stating that no researcher has > stated that screen bottoms can be used as a sole control, > several [researchers] continue to be of the view that they > will be useful as part of an IPM strategy. ...and the most important part they play is the part of an easy-to-use, low-cost, non-invasive monitoring tool. One cannot control what they do not measure. This is one of the most basic and fundamental truths that lead to IPM approaches. It does not matter if one's treatment approach involves the use of miticides, organophosphates, powdered sugar, FGMO, essential oils, flame throwers, sacred crystals, or short-range, low-yield tactical nuclear weapons. Regardless, you need to know when the mites are getting out of hand, and you need to know what impact your attempt to treat has on the mite population as represented by "unmedicated mite fall" after treatment. I have not heard anyone claim that a screened bottom board alone could keep mite populations in check. The various bee supply dealers have done a good job of bending over backwards to not "oversell" screened bottom board conversion kits, using language similar to that of the breakfast cereal companies ("...part of this healthy breakfast..."). jim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 08:42:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: CONFIRM BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" By now everyone has received the annual renewal notice for BEE-L subscriptions. I admit this is not a popular exercise. However, it does clean up the subscription list by removing people who subscribed and left without signing off the list, the result of which relieves the list owner of a SIGNIFICANT volume of email. Pitfalls to watch for in the CONFIRM exercise: The instructions say that one can CONFIRM their subscription simply by forwarding the confirmation notice back to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.albany.edu There are two things to watch for if one follows this method to CONFIRM their subscription. First, forward the mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.albany.edu DO NOT forward the mail to BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Second, if your mailed is configured to preface lines of forwarded mail with characters (caret space is very common), the commands in the mail forwared to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.albany.edu WILL NOT WORK! LISTSERV@LISTSERV.albany.edu needs to receive exactly: // JOB CONFIRM BEE-L // EOJ If LISTSERV@LISTSERV.albany.edu receives: > // JOB > CONFIRM BEE-L > // EOJ it will not understand the commands prefaced with caret space and your subscription will remain unCONFIRMed. I am not familiar with the web interface to BEE-L (I don't use it) so cannot comment or advise about using the web interface to BEE-L to CONFIRM your subscription. The most failproof way to CONFIRM your BEE-L subscription is to send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.albany.edu that reads: CONFIRM BEE-L If subscribers do not successfully CONFIRM BEE-L by May 15, they will be dropped from the subscription at midnight. If you get dropped against your wishes, resubscribe on May 16. Administratively yours, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:39:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So... We know that screened bottom boards are not a varroa control by themselves, but we knew that last year. We know that they increase the efficacy of a Varroa treatment (Delaplane et al), even when the bees exhibit resistance to the treatment! We know they are a good tool for easily checking mite levels. We know they have been used in cold climates (Denmark and New Hampshire) for the past twenty years with no problems. We know that there might be an increase (French-Canadian study) in Varroa over winter but not sure since the data was not statistically significant. But we know there is a decrease in warmer weather (Delaplane) but not statistically significant. So both studies tell us little because screened bottom boards are not a Varroa control by themselves. We know that screened bottoms lead to increased brood production (Delaplane) in the beekeeping year as well as, when left open over winter, during spring buildup with more surviving bees and brood (Danish study), which yields more bees. (And more Varroa, which may explain the French-Canadian results, but just speculating.) We have conflicting data on keeping the bottom open all winter. The French-Canadian study would say no while the Danish study and experience in New Hampshire would say yes (as well as my own experience). If the increased varroa of the F-C study is because of increased brood, which is a result of keeping the bottom open, then there would be a correlation (my supposition). Conclusion: They are a good tool for beekeepers and have few, if any drawbacks as long as you use them as a part of and not exclusively for Varroa control. Which is what we knew last year. Bill Truesdell Bath, Me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:28:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Screened Bottom Boards-What use are they? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a beekeeper. I went to college for 7 years no humanities and no degrees. Have been a beekeeper for a reason after managing 2000 acres of citrus and 105 aces of vegetables I realized that the most important part of farming without using toxic chemicals was the honeybee. It put the profit in farming and a product I would eat myself. The profit in research on honeybees or medical doctors always ends up with something that they can sell you. If you go to the doctor and he doesn't give you a pill, shot, and/or some chemical toxicants you go home thinking you didn't get your moneys worth. If you were told to go home and wait two weeks and you will have passed the cold you would want your money back. Bottom boards-What use are they? My eight grade teacher knew, but today they are said to be useless. I have studied 34 wild open air hives for 8 years. They are still in good to excellent shape thur mites, city and state bug spraying, and small hive beetles. The natural way of the bee controlling mites by the weakling and added weight dropping the bee from the bottomless outside the tree hive. The beetles larvae ate the wax which weaken the frame of wild wax (no plastic here) and it fell to the ground. These hives are 20 plus feet above the ground which is where the land breeze is higher than the pollutant ground smog. One hive is documented 40+years old. I have had to do my own research, asking others to watch observational hives too, and reading this informed list. Screen bottoms even in observational hives have been a plus in a natural unposioned hive. It is the honey that when I give it to my children I am sure that it is the best for them. No asptian that burns the memory. Is this something that we need to put on our labels to get research engineering? The accountable reversing of numbers by professional to disclaim screen bottoms is a real minus or a plus problem to our health in this business. I will continue to do my own research for Pure Natural Honey. (No chemicals) If anyone has ideas that are needing the tests completed lets see them on this list or send them to me. Michael Housel Orlandobee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:21:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards In-Reply-To: <200205031449.g43EFLUt015371@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am posting this from another list, that has been discussing the transalation of the french/canadian study. Possibly the increase in the Canadian study was only some sites - either site location of local climate played a role in the increase over winter or the increased clustering in cold weather. The first is an initial translation of the summary (computer trans, with comments from translator), the second comments from another beekeeper who reads French and translated it also. Karen ****** From the PDF file, via Altavista ***** Summary A plate [floor] antivarroas equipped with a latticed bottom was put at the large-scale test during apicoles seasons 2000 and 2001 in the area of Estrie in Quebec. Used `.fond closed [with the ventilation closed], the plate made it possible to slow down of 37% on average the population of varroas of the colonies during the season 2001. The overall performance obtained is however not statistically significant except for certain sub-groups for the sample where the conditions of eperimentation were more homogeneous [less variability]. These results reinforce those obtained from two other recent studies (1,2) carried out in the United States, but which was also nonsignificant. The output of the plate was variable according to ruchers [hive] and it is possible that certain environmental factors modulate its effectiveness. Research would be necessary to better include/understand this aspect. One should not absolutely use the plate antivarroas with its open bottom [Don't use it with the ventilation open] because the fall in the temperature of the nest with couvain [? Isabelle isn't around right now!] which results from this creates optimal conditions for the development of the varroa. As we A could check it in 2000 this condition cancelled not only the beneficial effect of the plate but resulted in rates of infestation definitely raised (29,2% more varroas, nonsignificant) compared to the reference group. The output of this plate was also very variable from one colony to another. It was observed that the spring force [strength in spring] of the colony and especially the line of its queen were factors which had a great influence on the progression of the infestation. The plate antivarroas also appears to increase the effectiveness of the acaricide treatments and could slow down the development of resistance to the pesticides in the bee. The plate antivarroas lends itself easily to the insertion of a drawer of sampling under its bottom. The plates used during our tests were thus designed. This characteristic simplifies tracking largely and even makes it possible to use the natural fall of the varroas over periods prolonged like indicator of the level of infestation of the colonies. This is an advantage Net in period of miellie. [miel means Honey - 'honey season'?] The use of the plate antivarroas is a means easy, economic, durable and clean to fight the varroa. It constitutes in our opinion an essential tool in a strategy of fight integrated not only because it contributes to slow down the infestation but also because it allows constantly to easily know the level of infestation of the colonies. It becomes thus a tool significant for the decision-making as for the choices of measurements of control to be adopted and as for the moments when to apply them. It can be used in conjunction with other means of fight like the use of resistant queens and the specific application of essential oils or formic acid. It will thus make it possible to reduce if not eliminate the dependence with the chemical treatments. Such a panoply could probably constitute a strategy of adequate integrated fight. The plate antivarroas emphasizes the behavior of natural delousing of the bee. This behavior could be developed thus besides more by selection. The plate antivarroas presents also prospects interesting for the development for methods of control which would quite simply consist in causing the fall of the varroas which are on the adult bees. *********** -----Original Message----- From: Ettamarie Peterson I had my friend Serge look at that French Canadian site as he is French and very interested in this subject. This was his reply: > Subject: Canadian test of screen bottoms > Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:49:45 -0700 > From: "Serge J Labesque" > To: "Ettamarie Peterson" > > Dear Ettamarie: > > Thank you for the link to this report. It is a text of twenty pages and it > took me a little while to go through it. I have to say that the > observations made by the researchers corroborate the ones I have made, and > we are reaching the same conclusions as far as the utilization of the screen > bottoms. Where we differ is in some of our explanations of the reasons why > leaving the screen open can be negative, but that is academic. > > The report in a nutshell: > The use of screened bottoms in beehives is strongly recommended as a means > of controlling the varroa population, particularly at the time of treatment > with chemicals such as Apistan¨. The report shows that, in some climatic > conditions or in some apiaries, leaving the screen open can have adverse > effects. An open screen mesh allows temperature inside the beehive to > fluctuate too much. The researchers simply say that "cooler temperatures > favors the multiplication of the mites". > Incidentally, they also say that adequate distance should be maintained > between the trays and the screens as the mites can climb back up (as you > know from our previous correspondence, I concur with them on this). > > My observations, the recording of minimum/maximum temperatures and the > monitoring of daily mite fall show that there is a direct correlation > between the atmospheric temperature and number of varroas that is collected > on the trays. My explanation is that the bees cluster for longer periods of > time and more tightly when they are exposed to lower temperatures. A large > difference between a daily minimum and maximum can be rather stressful on a > colony, and this is a typical feature of our local "Mediterranean" climate. > When it is cold, the bees cluster tightly around the brood area and the > mites can pass very easily from one bee to another, from a cell to a bee or > from a bee into a cell. In warm weather the bees move about in the hive > leaving relatively large spaces between them. Not only the increased > activity dislodges more varroas, but there is less of a "safety net", and > more mites fall through the screen. > > In conclusion, use screened floors in your beehives but keep them closed > with the trays. Open mesh bottom probably work in Ireland and similar > climates. > > Serge > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Screened Bottom Boards-What use are they? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have everything on screens and have watched a decrease in varroa. Less > winter loss by 20%. It is not the screens alone. I use IPM with Russian X My Hygienic bees. Screens sounded like a good idea , good enough for me to build 180 of them. The varroa situation is more complex than screen bottoms or one line of bees. Weather is a factor and stress has part to play in it also.Hive location has shown me a difference in mite load of a hive. I had one yard out of 5 that had Varroa last june. It was in a more shaded area at 4,000 feet. Two yards that were at the same elevation in a very sunny ( southern and no trees in the way ) did not show any varroa in the larva , just a few through the screen. ( 100 in 2 weeks on the bottom board.) I'm making progress up here in western Washington.This year is the best in 5 so far. Screens are only part of the equation. I will say that they help me.Studies that are done give us information. They do not work in all areas unless the work has been done in all areas.The more research that goes on ,the off we will all be in regards to the mites.We need to look at all tools that are out there and don't get hooked on chemicals. That's a short trip with a bad ending. The Best Roy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 19:46:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Screened bottom boards - drawings In-Reply-To: <200205031525.g43EFLYf015371@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1- Are drawings of those famous screened bottom boards available somewhere on the web with sizes ? 2- Karen Oland refered to a french-canadian study. Is this study available on the web in french ? Or who could provide it by e-mail ? Hervé ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 13:53:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Simoneau_Andr=E9_=28DRMONTR=29_=28L=27Assomption=29?= Subject: Open screen BB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill Truesdell wrote: "We know that screened bottoms lead to increased brood production (Delaplane) in the beekeeping year as well as, when left open over winter, during spring buildup with more surviving bees and brood (Danish study), which yields more bees. (And more Varroa, which may explain the French-Canadian results, but just speculating.) We have conflicting data on keeping the bottom open all winter. The French-Canadian study would say no while the Danish study and experience in New Hampshire would say yes (as well as my own experience). If the increased varroa of the F-C study is because of increased brood, which is a result of keeping the bottom open, then there would be a correlation (my supposition)." Bill: This french-canadian study was done by Jean-Pierre Chapleau from "Les Reines Chapleau" here in Québec,who is a very active and reknown queen producer. Perhaps Jean-Pierre can bring more precision to what I am writing here but, as we can read in his study, the explanation of the increased Varroa population with an OPEN SBB would be that the lowering of temperature affect the larva maturation time, perhaps delaying 2 to 3 days the normal adult emerging time.The cell being closed 2 or 3 days more would allow MORE young Varroa female to become mature before the adult emerge. Hence, the increase of Varroa population during colder temperature with an OPEN SBB. Hope I have helped. Docteur André Simoneau, b.sc.,d.m.v. CQIASA Laboratoire de pathologie animale 867, boulevard L'Ange-Gardien L'Assomption, Québec CANADA J5W 4M9 Tél. (450)-589-5745 poste 275 Télécopieur: (450)-589-0648 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:34:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Simoneau_Andr=E9_=28DRMONTR=29_=28L=27Assomption=29?= Subject: Open screen BB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://reineschapleau.wd1.net/ If you read french, you can find a résumé of Jean-Pierre Chapleau research on SBB Docteur André Simoneau, b.sc.,d.m.v. CQIASA Laboratoire de pathologie animale 867, boulevard L'Ange-Gardien L'Assomption, Québec CANADA J5W 4M9 Tél. (450)-589-5745 poste 275 Télécopieur: (450)-589-0648 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:58:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LLOYDSPEAR Subject: Screen bottoms While driving to work today, I got to thinking about my comment concerning Peter Borst's contribution to the research done at Cornell concerning screen bottom boards. From conservations with Nick Calderone, I was aware that Peter was very much involved on a day to day basis. I think it was probably unfortunate that I used the term "grunt work", as it might imply that Peter just followed orders rather than being part of a team effort on this and other projects. What I was trying to say is that Peter knew what he was talking about as he was very much involved...even though nothing has been published. I did not mean to give the impression that Peter is not a valuable member of the group doing honeybee research at Cornell. Nick has spoken highly of Peter's contributions. Thankfully, among my mail this morning was the following from a Bee-L member: "Thank you VERY much for your post on screened bootoms boards yesterday to the bee list. It answered several questions I have as well as demonstrated wisdom and diplomacy that I can only dream of. Its great to know there are people like you on the list!" Despite my faux pas... Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner of Ross Rounds, manufacturer of comb honey equipment for beekeepers and Sundance pollen traps. http://www.rossrounds.com Lloyd@rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 16:10:18 -0700 Reply-To: beekeeper82@yahoo.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carm Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards - drawings In-Reply-To: <200205031819.g43CPlvd011853@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, Try this link: http://www.beesource.com/plans/ipmbottom.htm I built one just about like that. Good design... Take care, Carm P.S. I put a small strip under the board that slides out the back so I could grab it and pull it out. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 18:47:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 May 2002 to 2 May 2002 (#2002-121) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 03/05/02 05:03:52 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Anyone with suggestions how to feed crystallized frames of honey back to the >> There are three possible ways. 1. Use these frames for feeding nucs. 2. If you have a box full place it under the hive (and a QE) having scored the cappings. The bees should move it up into the supers and mix it with whatever they are collecting. It will crystallise again if you don't extract quickly. If the QE is under the hive for long you will need a drone exit. 3. Score the cappings and place the super above an empty super and the crown board, leaving the feef hole open. The bees should rob it down. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:14:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards Karen quotes the study: Varroa populations in colonies treated exclusively with a bottom screen were 14.9 % lower than that of non-treated colonies, but this difference was not significant. My reading of *not significant* is *not significant*. pb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:13:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards Adony wrote: Apicides? Yikes! I can think of two that report an effect of screened bottom boards (SBB) in conjunction with miticides, although one is published and the other is in press. Whoops! It was early in the morning. I meant miticides, not apicides! pb ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 19:42:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter: > My reading of *not significant* is *not significant*. > pb Sad to say, but in statistics, "not significant" does not mean much. To be significant :-) , "not significant" must be accompanied by a significance level. For example, "not significant at the 5% level" means that there was a 5% chance of the result being due to random variation between samples. "Not significant" should not be construed as "meaningless". A result which is "not significant at the 1% level" can be quite significant at the 5% level. Best regards, Donald Aitken --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/2002 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:58:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Butcher Subject: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have info on Bee stings used on Gout attacks? Have a Blessed Day Bob Butcher Tucson Az. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 08:45:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Open screen BB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Simoneau André (DRMONTR) (L'Assomption) wrote: > > Bill Truesdell wrote: > > "We know that screened bottoms lead to increased brood production > (Delaplane) in the beekeeping year as well as, when left open over > winter, during spring buildup with more surviving bees and brood (Danish > study), which yields more bees. (And more Varroa, which may explain the > French-Canadian results, but just speculating.) Then Simoneau André wrote > as we can read in his study, the explanation of the increased Varroa > population with an OPEN SBB would be that the lowering of temperature affect > the larva maturation time, perhaps delaying 2 to 3 days the normal adult > emerging time.The cell being closed 2 or 3 days more would allow MORE young > Varroa female to become mature before the adult emerge. > Hence, the increase of Varroa population during colder temperature with an > OPEN SBB. > Hope I have helped. Actually it causes me a bit more trouble and would appreciate anyone clearing this up for me. In essence, their study indicates to me that the brood nest is not kept at about 95F with open bottoms which causes a delay in normal adult emerging time. Did they actually measure this or is this conjecture? All the studies I have read show the brood nest is kept fairly constant and there is no appreciable difference in the time for emergence of the adult bee. Have there been studies that show a difference in emergence time for larva/pupa on the edges of the brood nest? The Danish study showed a later startup of brood production with open bottoms (as well as more robust colonies compared to hives with mesh but solid inserts), so that does not track either, since the closed bottom would have more brood earlier, hence more Varroa. Unless there is more brood/bees in the open mesh hive when the F-C measurements were made. Which makes more sense than delayed emergence and tracks with other findings. The Deleplane study shows an increase in brood production and says nothing about changes in emergence, but they probably were not looking. However, there was no increase in Varroa, but a decrease. Another difference in results. There are so many anomalies in the data about open bottoms that it is obvious that the variables involved have quite an effect on data. One of the most apparent is the site of the hive and if it is sheltered or open to the prevailing winds. That would have a pronounced difference in the conditions inside the hive body. Or if there is also an upper entrance. The Danish study indicated that there should be none for overwintering, but do have them in warmer weather. But upper entrances are standard in most northern hives. None of this really matters since the key in each of these studies is that open bottoms are good. The reasons differ, but not much. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:54:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Screened bottom boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I wrote: I have asked this group repeatedly to show studies proving their effectiveness. Karen wrote: >I'm sure Cornell can get a copy of the full research (and suprised you don't > already subscribe to the publication of such in your own field, since there > are so few doing research). I most certainly read the study you quoted and even talked to the author about it. However, I came to quite a different conclusion than others. The study seems to me to reinforce the idea that screens alone are of little use, which is the only point I was trying to make. I have made this before, and I was only reiterating it because it seemed as if the discussion was focusing on these screens again. As far as using them in conjunction with chemicals, the study makes some observations, which so far as I know, have not been replicated. They do not make any recommendations based on these observations. More recently, Keith Delaplane touted John Harbo's work on the mite reproduction suppression trait as the really big news. I don't have the reference at hand, but I think it was in Bee World. Anybody see that? I am contributing to this list, not as a scientist but as a fellow beekeeping enthusiast of many years. Years ago I sold beekeeping supplies in California and it always bothered me when bogus stuff appeared on the market. Anyone remember those non-swarming frames? They were thin plastic panels that looked like queen excluders that you were supposed put in between the regular frames. If you think that would work, I have a bridge to sell you . . . -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 04:17:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bees not consuming extender patties? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Adding a tablespoon of (your own) honey to each patty will > cause the bees to consume them at an acceptable rate, even on the top > hive body. While this may be true, it is not the recommended method. The best way to ensure that the patties are effective is to follow the formula scrupulously and be sure to place them within an inch or two of the brood or between brood boxes. In our experience, the patties are effective whether they are consumed or not! Strange. Nonetheless, they must be removed -- having done their job -- weeks before any honey flow that may resulting honey being extracted, if there is any patty left. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 03:51:32 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 May 2002 to 2 May 2002 (#2002-121) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > << Anyone with suggestions how to feed crystallized frames of honey back...>> > There are three possible ways. We use a fourth: simply uncap the frames and then insert one or two (but not next to one another) into the supers that are put on immediately above the brood boxes early in the season. In our experience, the bees will liquefy these frames and the honey will stored, not be used for feed. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:13:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Re: Graftless Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, An interesting graftless method, the Hopkins Method, is described by Jerry Hayes under the point of view(POV) on www.besource.com. I have not tried it myself but it requires no additional equipment and should work well. Grafting is very easy to learn. If you use a Chinese grafting tool(from Mann Lake for $3), a cheap headband magnifier(less than $10 from Harbor Freight) and a headband flashlight from any sports($10). You can see the larva you want to select with the headband magnifier and lamp. The Chinese tool is then slide down the side of the cell and given a slight twist after it bottoms out to extract the larva on its bed of royal jelly. More of a feel rather than actually having to see the larva and pick it up as with conventional tools. To simplify the task even further wide base plastic JZ BZ cell cups can be purchased. These can be inserted into a normal brood frame if only a few cells need to be raised. Best Wishes Dennis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 08:43:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BEE_L_Moderator Subject: BEE-L FAQ and Guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEE-L is a moderated discussion list with published standards & guidelines. Discussion covers a wide range of bee-related subjects. Anyone with an interest in bees is welcome to join and submit articles for consideration. While anyone may read BEE-L, those submitting articles, by doing so, agree that acceptance or rejection of posts to be sent to the list is at the sole discretion of the moderators. GUIDELINES: BEE-L has rules that everyone who wishes to post messages to the list must observe. Please see http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L for details. Failure to meet guidelines will result in rejection of your article. IN PARTICULAR, DO NOT INCLUDE QUOTES OF PREVIOUS ARTICLES OR ANY PREVIOUS HEADERS WHEN REPLYING. CONTRIBUTIONS INCLUDING QUOTES THAT ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO UNDERSTANDING WILL USUALLY BE REJECTED *WITHOUT NOTICE* FAQ: Our FAQ is our archive of posts running back more than a decade. Every post that makes the list (and well over 90% do) goes into these archives and can be easily found by a search at any time now or in the future. 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CURRENTLY RECOMMENDED SOFTWARE: Zone Alarm is available as a free download at http://www.zonelabs.com/ for personal use. It is simply the best available, and simple to use. Don't trust the firewall built into Windows XP. It, and many others out there simply won't do the trick. A personal version of AVG anti virus is available as a free download from http://www.grisoft.com/ and it can be set to update automatically or updated manually (for free) over the net whenever you like. Please be sure to update your anti-virus daily so that your computer does not get infected with new worms that come along daily, and thus become a nuisance to the rest of us. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 16:44:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: No eggs, larva, or brood Comments: cc: BiologicalBeekeeping@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Myself and a friend requeened most of our hives at the beginning of last month. We took the old queen out and waited for 36 hours before putting the new queen in. All queens had left the cage in less than one week. At this point we still do not have any eggs, larva, or brood. We have not checked each and every frame for the queen yet. Any comments of ideas of what to do next? Rodney in VA (Leesburg) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 15:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: John Cunningham Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Cunningham Subject: uncapper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking at uncappers. Does anyone have experience with the Dakota = Model 100 or the Maxant model MCT1? Any others in the $2K price range that I should consider? John Cunningham ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:58:52 -0400 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Doubt, Uncertainty, Mites, And The Limitations Of Bee Research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another rainy weekend in Virginia. This time, no tornadoes. The discussion of screens and varroa mites has prompted multiple people to cite various studies. Each study was tossed on the table in expectation that it would land with a resounding thump, bearing weighty scientific evidence in support of a point of view. But how "weighty" are the papers that are trotted out to influence the consensus on practices intended to assure the survival of one's colonies? Are they more "weighty" than the consensus of the participants in the discussion? Does it strike anyone as funny that a beekeeper with decades of experience and hundreds of hives feels somehow obligated to cite a study of a few dozen hives over less than a year? I've been reading the literature for quite some time. As compared to papers in other fields, there are significant differences between the types of experiments and studies that result in published papers of interest to beekeepers, and the usual pile of published scientific papers from other fields. My intent is not to "critique" any individuals or papers. My sole aim is to attempt to point out some of the limitations that researchers are forced to accept, and suggest an approach that might overcome many of these limitations. 1) A Small Number Of Publishing Researchers There are far fewer researchers working in areas related to beekeeping than in many other fields of scientific inquiry. To give an idea of the scale of difference, I could start now reading only newly-arrived pre-prints of papers relating to radio astronomy, but new e-mail announcements arrive faster than I could read the referenced papers. I would never "catch up", even reading 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. To be honest, I don't even have the time to read all the abstracts. Fewer researchers mean that fewer studies are done, and as a result, many experiments remain unverified (or unchallenged) for years. Some are never subjected to the acid test of "reproducing the results". Even studies with surprising or counterintuitive conclusions can stand unchallenged for years. Time does not allow, and funding is not available. 2) Long-Term Studies Are Rarely Done Many of the problems that beekeepers look to science to solve involve the survival of their colonies, but many colony losses occur over time spans that are longer than the length of the majority of the studies. Sadly, researchers are subject to the tyranny of funding. Most studies relating to bees have a term of less than a year. While I'm sure that there have been many attempts to obtain funding for longer-term studies, such studies are very rare. As a result, the majority of knowledge and consensus about long-term effects tends to based almost entirely on anecdotal reports from beekeepers. Some fraction of these anecdotal reports are better described as "apocryphal", and very little of this type of data ends up being gathered, analyzed, or published. In the field of medicine, a similar situation exists, where most studies are neither long-term, nor large-scale. The difference is that anecdotal reports from doctors are considered a valid source of valuable data about long-term effects. Doctors are viewed as doing a better job of keeping records, perhaps because they use a more consistent set of terminology and test methodologies than beekeepers, or perhaps merely because they do keep records. 3) Most Studies Test Small Numbers Of Colonies Again, this comes down to funding, but the bottom line is that it is difficult to interpret data from a small number of colonies, since each hive is a significant fraction of the "data set". Most studies that use sample sizes that can only be described as "minimal", and many are being done at the limits of what would be considered "acceptable" for publication in other scientific fields. While large numbers of colonies certainly exist, the larger beekeepers tend to be migratory, and clearly cannot be expected to willingly allow some number of their colonies to be "controls" when "control colonies" can be expected to suffer fates such as lower production or death. To make matters worse, even if each beekeeper with more than 500 hives "adopted" a research project, many researchers would still be "orphans". 4) Outside Factors Can Overpower Experimental Parameters Everyone has seen side-by-side colonies, managed in exactly the same manner, with very different production totals. Most beekeepers try to eliminate obvious factors from the equation, and are left to shrug and blame poor production (brood, honey, whatever) on a queen that was somehow not up to snuff. But these same variations can skew studies, moreso when the studies are done on small numbers of hives over short periods of time. Yes, the careful application of statistical rigor to one's data can eliminate much of this problem, but sample sizes used in many studies are smaller than would be acceptable in other fields, making this a factor that increases doubt about nearly all studies done. To make matters worse, only a tiny minority of beekeepers have sufficient training in statistics to allow them to judge the statistical merits of one study or another, meaning that all study conclusions appear to many to be of equal authority and "weight". For a good overview of some basic concepts of statistical analysis in plain English, take a look here: http://www.sportsci.org/resource/stats/indexalpha.html Confused by it all? Don't feel bad. Keep at it. I've used statistical software made by the SAS Institute for several decades, and even this high-end software includes manuals and online help that constantly attempt to reinforce basic statistical concepts. Many well-funded research projects employ a professional graduate-level statistician to "keep the data honest", and create an aura of respectability similar to that created by the use of an independent accounting firm's audit on a company's financial reports. (Enron/Anderson are proof that numbers often have sharp edges, even in the hands of professionals.) 5) We Have Fired All The "Magic Bullets" Experiment design grows in complexity when one has multiple variables. Most experiments and studies focus on one variable at a time. Chemical company promotions to the contrary, there appears to be no single product or management practice that can assure colony survival. We are left to attempt to judge the relative merits of different combinations of tools, techniques, and practices. This makes for much more complex, and hence, expensive experiments. One Possible Future Of Practical Research The future might lay with the hobbyists. Groups of hobbyists, properly briefed and willing to tolerate being "instructed" in technique, could certainly implement studies designed by researchers. For example, if 20 beekeepers, each with 10 colonies were willing to participate in a study, this would reduce the costs of a 200-colony study to no more than the cost of "design", "data analysis", and a meeting or two to outline the specifics of the study. If funding was available, the studies could insure the colonies, by replacing any/all colony losses with packages. This would be a very good deal for the beekeepers, since colony looses are nonzero for nearly everyone regardless of management practices. This would also be a very good deal for the researchers, since the overall cost of such an approach would be less than doing the same study "on campus", even assuming high losses. Large scale, long term "experiments" are going on now, but no one is asking beekeepers to gather data in a consistent manner, and there is limited ability to assume use of consistent practices suitable for a coherent set of data. How long will the group as a whole continue to be epistemologically limited in our ability to search for patterns, but still ignore the fact that nearly every hive on the planet is being subjected to one experiment or another, intentional or unintentional? In other words, when do we get out act together, and start acting in our collective best interest? How many hives do you have at risk? What were your losses last year? Can you afford a spiral-bound notebook? Can researchers afford to ignore an offer of participation? jim ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 12:24:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob & all > Does anyone have info on Bee stings used on Gout attacks? I was once in conversation with an 'alternative therapist' who was a chemist, he reckoned that bee venom formulated in a cream with compounds that have 'lipid afinity' was good for gout... I am a gout sufferer, but I have never tried it. Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 12:55:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dee Lusby Subject: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all I am forwarding this to all as very interesting reading for thinking about. Regards, Dee A. Lusby --- In-Reply-To: To: BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com From: Erik Osterlund Delivered-To: mailing list BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:44:44 +0200 Subject: Re: [BioBee] Observations on feral honey bees in Florida, USA At 15.38 -0500 02-05-04, Barry Birkey wrote: >Scientific note: Observations on feral honey bees in Florida, USA >Tomas Mozer, Apicultural consultant/Apiary technician, University of >Florida[1] So Barry, here's an evidence then of a substantial size of a feral population in varroa country. ... > Of particular interest were colonies of smaller worker bees (avg. fwl > <9.0mm), approximately 21% of total samples, of which ~1% were identified > as Africanized honey bees by African mtDNA markers[8]. These then are rests from early 20th century imports of African bees and/or 1960 imports by Taber from Kerr in Brazil, as I've understood that Florida is not invaded yet by what is called AHB coming from Mexico. >The remaining ~20% >manifested substantial western as well as eastern European matrilines, >including an unknown mitotype that was neither European nor (sub-Saharan) >African, but perhaps of circum-Mediterranean origin[9]. This then could well be a native matriline, couldn't it, existing since time before Columbus? >These results coincide with previous studies of the diversity of feral and >commercial populations in the southern U.S. by Schiff & Sheppard[11] >showing significant genetic differences which suggest that the feral >population may represent a novel source of genetic variation for breeding >programs[12]. Yes, then get going and collect some swarms and establish an American good bee well adapted for the area. No one measured the cell size of course in those ferals. regards Erik __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 17:48:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Crutchfield Subject: swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello beekeeps, Just had a real blessing. After church this morning, sitting around the table . And one of the biggest swarms I have seen, decided to move in to a couple of hive bodies on the front porch. Needless to say, My visitors when they got over the killer bee thing. Learned a great lesson.:) Well a swarm of bees in may is worth a load of hay. Especially someone elses swarm:) preacher ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:45:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: No eggs, larva, or brood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rodney, How many colonies are you requeening? Where did the new queens come from? Why did you wait 36 hours before installing queen cages? Why have you NOT looked at all frames? Are the new queens still present? If I read your message correctly, you started this requeening around the 1st of April, and found EMPTY queen cages about April 10-15. Now, that is about 20 days ago, and you can't find any brood. Wow, something is BADLY wrong. Answer my questions, and maybe I can find a reason. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 07:36:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: What we know about screens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Bill writes: >We know that they increase the efficacy of a Varroa treatment (Delaplane >et al), even when the bees exhibit resistance to the treatment! I don't think we know this at all. I don't think *one* study proves a single thing. It has to be replicated. >We know they are a good tool for easily checking mite levels. I don't agree with this either. I think there are a variety of factors which make the mite drop an unreliable index of overall mite load. One is: how close to the bottom is the cluster? If it is close, you are apt to see more mites on the bottom than if it is higher up >We know that there might be an increase (French-Canadian study) in >Varroa over winter but not sure since the data was not statistically >significant. I am sorry, but I equate the words *not statistically significant* with *this doesn't mean much at all, so don't jump to conclusions*. >We know that screened bottoms lead to increased brood production I don't think this has been proved . In the trials I participated in there was no increase in honey production and no decrease in mite infestation. We didn't measure brood but if there was a significant increase in brood it should have created an increase in honey later. Screened bottoms are being touted as "part of an IPM program" but to be part of a program they have to have some *measurable effect* that is dependent on unique circumstances. I think people like the idea because it is easy and you just do it once. Annual requeening with improved stock is much more of a chore. -- Peter Borst ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 07:03:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Lescord Subject: Re: Bee Stings I'm a physician and gout sufferer and am aware of no literature that support usage of bee venom therapy in treating acute or chronic gouty arthritis. Interestingly, I just entered a period of heel soreness, a prodrome to an acute attack. I was stung by a package bee I was installing on the front portion of that left ankle, and I can inform you it had no effect on my gouty prodrome. I do understand venom therapy is advocated by some on a daily basis for a more extended period, but I think I will pass on that. Sorry to add a vote of no confidence. I would like nothing more to be able to offer therapy to my patients with my bees. Medical ethics exclude recommending venom therapy for gout or any other condition at this time. Any physician who recommends venom therapy is not practicing evidence based medicine. As an aside, the medical literature touts raw honey as a possible precipitant of an acute gouty attack. I ignore them and put up with a sore heel. Regards, Michael Lescord, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 10:16:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida >From Dee's forward: ">including an unknown mitotype that was neither European nor (sub-Saharan) >African, but perhaps of circum-Mediterranean origin[9]. This then could well be a native matriline, couldn't it, existing since time before Columbus?" Dee, wouldn't this be just another example of the data that seems to be piling up for the continued existence of pockets of Iberian bees brought by the Spanish? Seem's rather clear to me. Florida, like the South West was Spanish. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 10:49:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Odd Bee Statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for an estimate of the average weight of a European worker bee, and also for some back-up for the assertion, seen elsewhere, that in their lifetime a worker will produce about 1/12 of a teaspoon of honey. /Curtis Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 20:51:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen Oland Subject: Re: Screened bottom boards - drawings In-Reply-To: <200205031819.g43CPlvd011853@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I believe it is at http://reineschapleau.wd1.net Not sure where, don't read french. -----Original Message----- From: Hervé Logé 2- Karen Oland refered to a french-canadian ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 03:42:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Lescord Subject: Nucs through the mail Greetings, I wonder if any members have experience with nucs transported through the mail. I recently received 4 nucs (quite expensive I might add) from Buckeye Bee in Ohio. Three of the nucs were outright dead with only a couple of hundred bees adhered to nearly empty comb. The fourth had around 200 bees that were alive but no queen or eggs visible. Very little brood was present in any of these 5 frame nucs. Interestingly, Buckeye Bee is giving me fits over filing an insurance claim, (even though I paid for the insurance). There is no contact for them other than an AOL email address and someone named "Ken", who will not supply a phone number. Be careful with these people. I wonder if "nucs through the mail" is an unworkable concept, or did I just get taken from this one supplier? . Regards, Michael Lescord ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 11:20:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Odd Bee Statistics In-Reply-To: <200205061426.g46CAUc8008722@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:49 AM 5/4/02 -0400, you wrote: The weight of a European worker bee has been reported as ranging from 0.89 mg/bee to slightly over 0.1 gm (wet weight). Obviously, the weight varies by race, beekeeper, and type of bee - smoked, unsmoked, age, etc. We've weighed and counted lots of bees, can even provide the variance. For the latter, figure 10-12 flight days (sunny, flowers in abundance) as the life span of the average forager - based on work from Germany, this number appears again and again if you carefully examine other work. Estimate 6-8 flights per day for nectar gatherers (could be more -- water carriers make 50 or more trips -- depends on how far the bees have to go, how rich the source, etc.) Figure 75 - 90 mg loads of nectar in the crop for each trip -- I suspect the lower number is more representative. Now, estimate the amount of water driven off the nectar while making honey. >I'm looking for an estimate of the average weight of a European worker bee, and also for some >back-up for the assertion, seen elsewhere, that in their lifetime a worker will produce about 1/12 >of a teaspoon of honey. >/Curtis Crowell > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:47:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/05/02 05:01:36 GMT Daylight Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: James Fisher wrote (in part) << In other words, when do we get out act together, and start acting in our collective best interest? >> A few of us in the UK have been discussing this, both on the Irish list and in person. We see the need but have not yet arrived at any conclusions. If anything comes up in which we could help please include us, but bear in mind that an apiary with more than half a dozen hives is a rarity in the UK. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:00:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Odd Bee Statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry, You mean 89 mg., not 0.89 mg! Getting such an "average" weight is like asking "What is the weight of an average man?", and I am sure that you would get a different answer from a Japanese doctor than an American doctor. Speaking for myself, for many years package beekeepers have defined a pound of bees as 3500, which equals about 130 mg./bee. That is good enough for me. Sometimes I think people ask TOO much of we scientists; and then get frustrated when we can't give them a one word answer. Miss seeing you! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 16:48:44 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: slipped a decimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry, switching units, as someone pointed out. Bees weigh 89 - 110 mg. Rough estimate, wet bee weight about 0.1 gm per bee. About 5000 bees per pound. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:48:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rodney Farrar Subject: Re: No eggs, larva, or brood Comments: cc: rjro@starpower.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Old queens removed around April 1st New queens put in between 24-36 hours after taking old queens out Queens came from Wilbanks in GA All queens were out of cages in less than 7 days Suspect that we have 7 hives w/o queens out of 10 that were requeened No we have not checked all fame's but will check on Wed. I will let you know what we found out after we check on Wed. Thanks for your comments, Rodney ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:06:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: waldig Subject: Home made extractors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone come across a good design for a 3-frame extractor and actually built one ? Please share your information and experience. I came across one that called for a galvanized garbage can but I would like to use something safe (ie. food grade). Also, where does one turn for the miter gear mechanism ? Thank you, Waldemar Long Island ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 21:49:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HarrisonRW@AOL.COM Subject: Nucs in Nova Scotia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of someone who sells nucs in Nova Scotia, Canada Please reply to me rather than the list. Regards. Ralph harrisonrw@aol.coom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:14:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida In-Reply-To: <200205061418.g46D8Lbg010355@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Tim and All on Bee-l Tim, you wrote in reply to Erik's post to BioBee that was generoursly posted here for all to read by bee-l: Dee, wouldn't this be just another example of the data that seems to be piling up for the continued existence of pockets of Iberian bees brought by the Spanish? Seem's rather clear to me. Florida, like the South West was Spanish. Reply: Yes, data is piling up on differences that cannot be overlooked, but where does it say Iberian? Also are Iberian small and black. OUr bees were looked at for DNA and shown years ago to be similar to caucasian, like the small black bees in the hills of San Diego in the feral population. But similar is not the same as BEING. Are Iberian like or similar to caucasian? Many unanswered questions. Yet mtDMA is getting better! Also no full scale determination of what bees are in the Americas, both north and south I don't think has ever been done of the feral populations. Why? Shall be an interesting future I think finding out maybe1 Regards, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:47:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Housel Subject: Re: Home made extractors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The champane drums are stainless and make the best. The cutting down of the drums will give you the rings and brackets for the inside. The height of the frame plus 4 inches is the useable part of the drum. The cut off part is where you get the inside parts. The center rod at the top is connected to a Snaper mower drive disc. The snapper mower uses a drive rubber wheel that can be moved to increase the speed. I didn't build it but saw two used years ago. One was for dark frames and the second was for light honey frames. Michael Housel Orlandobee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 22:41:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Vaughan Subject: Re: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida >Yes, data is piling up on differences that cannot be >overlooked, but where does it say Iberian? The study quoted mentions the possibility that a percentage of the feral bees in Florida were circum-mediterranian, which includes the Iberian bee. Regards, and thanks for the food for thought. Tim Vaughan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 00:03:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Edward Osmun Jr." Subject: Screen bottom boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We have started 50 new packages this spring, 25 with home made screen = bottom boards and 25 with solid bottom boards. The frames are new wood = and wax but the boxes are mixed old and new. The covers are home made = and insulated. They are all in yards that we have had bees in and have = not had a problem with varroa last year when we picked them up. We are also picking up 50 nucs from Ontario this year. They also will = be on 25 screen and 25 solid bottoms. They will be going out to new = yards. When we installed the packages the day was great weather wise but = turned cold and rainy after that. I have noticed that generally the = hives with the screen bottoms have held a titer cluster and had not = drawn out the foundation as much as the solid bottoms. They are catching = up now that it is getting warmer. With all that is going on about to screen or not to screen (the hives = are on Cape Cod, MA.) we thought it would be good to try each. I have never done or been involved in any kind of study before so any = input would be greatly appreciated. This is just something that we are = trying on our own because we are starting 100 new hives. Ed eosmun@adelphia.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:12:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida In-Reply-To: <200205070253.g470TCeK001713@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All Tim wrote: The study quoted mentions the possibility that a percentage of the feral bees in Florida were circum-mediterranian, which includes the Iberian bee. Reply: Yes it does. but it also includes other bees other then those from Spain. Remember here circum-mediterranian seems to indicate all around doesn't it? Near east, middle east, southern Europe, etc. Yes, lots of food for thought!!! Regards, Dee A. Lusby __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:47:47 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mats Andersson Subject: Re: Graftless Queen Rearing? In-Reply-To: <200205031122.g43BBSV5010238@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Garrett Martin asked about the Jenter system for queen rearing: I have been using the Jenter system. It's very good and easy to use. The only problem i had was getting the wax drawn in the Jenter box. Then i put it in a box where i had a swarm, and they fixed it in a day or two. /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 23:37:59 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Fellow Amateurs - A Lesson Learned! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > As you separate the boxes, one at a time, you can scrape the top bars and bottom bars and set the hive back up. > Oh...you use the ladder to set it back up? No, I usually preferred stacking the boxes back up. A ladder or the ladder-like frame (or piece of plywood) *can* be used to set a hive up, but usually there is some re-arranging to be done, and boxes to be taken away and added, moreover the boxes being added are lighter than those being taken. The specific problem being solved was to how deal with a badly glued-up hive without the beekeeper killing a lot of bees -- or -- a lot of bees killing the beekeeper. By lying the hive over backwards, the bottom brood box or another box can quickly be put in place on the original stand to catch the returning bees, and then the other boxes stacked back on it as quickly or slowly as desired. Most bees which are disturbed by the work and which fly up will return to the stand and not bother the beekeeper in his work. Nor will they be disturbed again, since they are then in the part of the hive on which work is completed. This system does not work as well when upper entrances are used, since returning bees are looking for an opening in something tall and white. The beekeeper is the closest nearby approximation when the hive is lying down. allen http://www.internode.net/honeybee/diary/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 06:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garret Martin Subject: Re: Graftless Queen Rearing? Thanks Dennis and Mats For your input on this. I have a question though you said that you had problems drawing wax. I was under the inpression that the comb box is placed on drawn comb, is this not the case? I have ordered a cup-Kit system so I am looking forward to this new challenge. Regards Garrett ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:24:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee Lusby wrote: > Yes, data is piling up on differences that cannot be > overlooked But it may also be that bees from different areas of the world have hitchhiked to the US on ships or crates of machinery and the presence of any different dna in feral bees in any area cannot be accredited to what may have happened in the past. For example. We had, fortunately in the dead of winter, an AHB colony delivered with some generating equipment to a power station in Maine. They were alive after a trip from Brazil. No reason they could not come from Spain or any other country and have done so long ago or last month. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:28:47 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mats Andersson Subject: Re: Graftless Queen Rearing? In-Reply-To: <200205071226.g47BXZZe015100@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Garret asked: "I was under the inpression that the comb box is placed on drawn comb, is this not the case?" I guess that could be done, but a much simpler and cleaner way is to build a solid frame and cut out an opening the size of the Jenter box and then tie the box in place with some wire. I'll take some pictures of this and publish on the net for those of you who are interested. /Mats Andersson, Stockholm Sweden ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:59:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Open screen BB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Simoneau André (DRMONTR) (L'Assomption) wrote: > There are so many anomalies in the data about open bottoms that it is > obvious that the variables involved have quite an effect on data. Simoneau raises a valid point. Unlike the study of many other things it is hard (if not impossible to get x amount of hives alike in every way). The goal of the commercial beekeeper is to get all the hives in each yard as *close* to the same. The reason is so when you super they all need a super. There is little robbing as all are of the same strength. I would guess a 10 - 20 % difference between hives even with the best effort. Dr. Delaplane which I admire greatly is aware of the problem and keeps as close a eye out as he can. An example is on his video tape series *Honey Bees and Beekeeping available from most bee supply houses. Dr. Delaplane attempts to get ten hives ready for the spring flow. Although all are treated the same two lag seriously behind. Those two hives are simply not building up like the others. Dr. Delaplane requeens and the hives start building up. Dr. Delaplane concludes the two queens were the problem . I agree as the problem was solved *but* we have got eight hives with at least 10-20% more brood. Varroa reproduction is *directly* related (in my opinion) to the amount of brood being produced. The reason your strongest hive always has the highest infestation rate in the fall. Something not said before on Bee-L or ever in print I have seen. In my opinion Italians will carry a higher varroa count when tested early in the spring than any other race. Not rocket science. The Italian bee broods up faster and earlier than most races. So all bees should be of the *same* race when varroa testing is done to get accurate results when varroa testing screened bottom boards in spring. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:32:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Simoneau_Andr=E9_=28DRMONTR=29_=28L=27Assomption=29?= Subject: Influence of temperature in Varroa population MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Truesdell Bill, the following is an extract from Jean-Pierre Chapleau project on screen bottom board: > as we can read in his study, the explanation of the increased Varroa > population with an OPEN SBB would be that the lowering of temperature affect > the larva maturation time, perhaps delaying 2 to 3 days the normal adult > emerging time.The cell being closed 2 or 3 days more would allow MORE young > Varroa female to become mature before the adult emerge. > Hence, the increase of Varroa population during colder temperature with an > OPEN SBB. > Hope I have helped. There were some references with this extract which I forgot to mention. Here they are: 1. Fries, Ingemar, Varroa in cold climates: Population Dynamics, Biotechnical Control and Organic acids, in Living with varroa, 1993, pp37-48 where we can read: "(....)mite population seems to grow faster in cooler climates than in warm areas(...)it has been suggested that climates factors are decisive in determining the mite population growth although the nechanism remain unknown." 2.Kraus,B and Velthuis, H.H. The impact of temperature gradients in the brood nest of honeybee on reproduction of Varroa jacobsoni (abstract # 38) in Abstracts from the second international conference on africanized honey bees and bee mites. American Bee Journal, vol 140, no 10 (2000) p.827 Both scientists found that colonies in which brood nest temperature has been artificially lowered have doubled their Varroa population in comparison with a witness group. Then, laboratory test allowed them to set at 33C the fastest reproduction temperature for Varroa. (Kraus and Velthuis results were not published at the time J.-P.Chapleau build up his trials protocoles in 2000, those results have been published only in October 2000.). On the basis of those 2 references, it is plausible to assume that an OPEN screen BB could lower the brood nest temperature (1-2-3C? we do not know) and consequently extend the adult emerging time, allowing Varroa to be more numerous in such a situation. To answer your question, yes it is purely hypothetical and has been presented as such in Chapleau project. Best regards, Docteur André Simoneau, b.sc.,d.m.v. CQIASA Laboratoire de pathologie animale 867, boulevard L'Ange-Gardien L'Assomption, Québec CANADA J5W 4M9 Tél. (450)-589-5745 poste 275 Télécopieur: (450)-589-0648 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:57:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Hubbard Subject: garden hive top and upper entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have a hive of bees with one of those copper "garden" hive tops. This morning I noticed that at the gable ends of this top there may be space for acces to the hive through the top. Should I be concerned about this or does it benefit the bees both for ventilation and upper entrance / exit ? Should I really not be using this top to begin with? Mark hubbard@cofo.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 11:04:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Observations on Feral Bees in Florida MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dee wrote: > These then are rests from early 20th century imports of > African bees and/or 1960 imports by Taber from Kerr in Brazil, as I've > understood that Florida is not invaded yet by what is called AHB coming from Mexico. Quote from page 64 of the book *Following the bloom * by Douglas Whynott of the Bee-L list available from most U.S. bee supply houses. Excellent book! Wayne Knight foreman for large Florida beekeeper talking to Douglas Whynott: "You heard of these African bays?" "These here ARE African bays" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:18:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Harrison Subject: Coumaphos resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, Dr. Medhat Nasr reports in the new issue of *The Speedy Bee* (pg. 8) that using the test described by Jeff pettis (ARS-USDA, Beltsville, Md.) Dr. Nasr found the efficacy of Checkmite was on average 19% in the bees he tested in New Jersy. New Jersy is the third state to report Checkmite resistant varroa. Sincerely, Bob Harrison ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:12:01 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@fuse.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy & Dave Subject: Re: Odd Bee Statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit C.R. Crowell wrote: > I'm looking for some > back-up for the assertion, seen elsewhere, that in their lifetime a worker will produce about 1/12 > of a teaspoon of honey. Hi Curtis. I found this reference contained in a National Honey Board mailing. It was headed as a "News Release" with some "Interesting Facts about Bees". This mailing did not contain any citing reference, however. Perhaps you could email the NHB and ask them for their source? Judy in Kentucky ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 17:03:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dan hendricks Subject: Home made extractors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Waldig. For eight years I have used a home made extractor which started as a new galvanized garbage can. I painted it with a food-grade epoxy coating. Don't forget that after you wash it out after use and dry it, it sits idle and dry most of the time. There is no need to worry about everything. Dan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com