From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:45:07 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.6 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FA348FDD for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDbKlF012089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:17 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0401C" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 70681 Lines: 1615 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:37:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Re: honey bee plant database Comments: To: Zachary Huang Zachary, It works for me! Thank you for all the wonderful phgotographs of bees and now your demo page of some of Dr. George Ayers wonderful photos of plants and flowers. IMO you are really helping to provide some wonderful tools for beekeeping classes etc.. A picture can be worth far more than 1000 words. It was worth every one of the many hours that you spent in development, congrats. Thank you, Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 00:13:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Fungus vs. Varroa: A New Tool? Have you read the article by Steve Sheppard in the Jan '04 Bee Culture? Looks like in the not too far future we may possibly have another tool in the toolbox; but unlike oxalic acid it looks like Dadant will most likely - if I am reading between the lines correctly - package the new tool: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:46:09 -0600, Rosalind James wrote: "I am a Research Entomologist (Insect Pathologist) at the USDA Agricultural Research Service's Bee Biology and Systematics Lab in Logan, UT..... I am currently working on developing a microbial control for varroa mites, that means, yes, the use of fungi for controlling varroa". "... but we are now at the point of doing field tests in collaboration with Dadant to determine effective doses and methods for application. The biggest problems..." Since Steve Sheppard reports that this stuff, Metarhizium anisopliae, in field studies "was equal to that achieved with the conventional treatment Apistan(R)" this just might work. Interesting to note that this was a thread that started back in May of last year on the Bee-L: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0305E&L=bee-l&P=R295. It appears that a great amount of work has been accomplished. Let's hope that if it does come to fruition that the FDA approved pesticide and its application can be purchased at a reasonable price since it was developed with taxpayers dollars. Chuck Norton Norton's Nut & Honey Farm Reidsville, NC :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bernard SAUBOT Subject: Imidaclopride (was G.M. bee) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for beeing a little long in answering questions . The information that some residues of imidaclopride were recently found = in underground water in Canada has been given by a scientist called Dr = Bonmatin, during his last conferences in beekeeping meetings last fall . Dr Bonmatin is a researcher working in the C.N.R.S. institution (Centre = National de la Recherche Scientifique). He is very well known in the french beekeeping world, because he spent = most of his time, during the last four or five years, working on the = problems that arose for beekeepers with the arrival on the market of = this new generation or neurotoxics . He has clearly established that = flowers of plants which seeds were treated with imidaclopride were = containing in pollen and nectar small quantities of the chemical (2 to = 3 ppb in the pollens of sunflower, 1 to 2 ppb in the pollen of ma=EFs) . And those quantities, if they are not letal, are very clearly important = enough to affect several behaviors of our bees . I am trying to contact him, but it is not possible immediatly . I'll let you know as soon as I get the answer . Bernard Saubot :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:29:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: West Virginia, Ag Day is Monday, February 2, 2004 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Important Notice to All WV Beekeepers > Ag Day is Monday, February 2, 2004 > Why should YOU go to the state capitol and get involved? 1. West Virginia Beekeepers Association has a display. We need beekeepers to help explain the importance of honeybees. 2. It is an opportunity to talk with your legislators. 3. You can help distribute complimentary jars of honey to each legislator along with an information sheet outlining the importance of supporting and funding the state apiary program. 4. It is important that we have a good turnout. If only a few beekeepers care enough to show up, it might send the message that beekeeping isn't all that important in West Virginia. When you come to Ag. Day: 1. Park free at Laidley Field and ride to the capitol on the shuttle bus. 2. Let me know if you need a map to reach the parking area. 3. Our display is on the main floor in the rotunda area. Met here at 9:00 A.M. 4. I will make name tags for each beekeeper so let me know who's coming. 5. Recruit some of your fellow beekeepers and I'll see you at the capitol. Gordon Mead 20 Shady Lane Winfield WV 25213 (304) 562-3339 E-mail: geniebee@juno.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:51:08 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have looked at the archives and am confused. I was told that supercedure queens are better than swarm queens. Which is right? I would like to know the way to raise queens for a hobby beekeeper. I have 14 hives, so I don't need 100 queens. Is there a good method that does not involve buying new equipment? Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 14 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:00:04 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: waldig@NETZERO.COM Subject: Re: Feeding in the middle of a cold winter. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I want to thank all who have offered advice on have to deal with low stores in the dead of winter. I found things are relative indeed. This one colony was much lighter than the rest when I lifted up the hives on one side. When the temps were reasonable, I looked inside the hive ready to present sugar. I was pleasantly surprised to see a nice, large cluster next to 6 frames of sealed honey. Mind at ease, I promptly closed the colony up. I may need to feed in late winter when brood rearing picks up. Things seem fine for now. Now, where do I get a hive scale... :) Waldemar Long Island, NY Michael Palmer writes >You could always pour granulated sugar around the inner cover escape hole. >Moisture from the colony helps liquify the sugar. Cut a cross in the bag, fold open, add a quarter cup of water, wait till it is absorbed, then turn it over and place over the hole above the cluster. Bees will climb up and have some insulation. -- James Kilty :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:28:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <1d2.17ee1ef2.2d38735c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swarm Queens are always the best queen as they are raised in the best of conditions. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 Kathy E Cox wrote: >I have looked at the archives and am confused. I was told that supercedure >queens are better than swarm queens. Which is right? > > > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:47:36 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Comments: cc: LovemgrFan@AOL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Kathy & All, >I would like to know the way to raise queens for a hobby beekeeper. I have >14 >hives, so I don't need 100 queens. Is there a good method that does not >involve buying new equipment? > The URL below will give you a good idea of some simple methods of rearing and mating some queens, I use a version of the alley method. http://www.gobeekeeping.com/queen_rearing.htm You may want to join in on the bee breeders guild I have started so you can begin to breed local bred queens in your area and start a local chapter in your location. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abahbb/ If I may quote from Bee Culture's magazine December 2003 issue. "Dr. Marla Spivak’s wonderful, J.I. Hambleton, talk to the Eastern Apiculture Society in August, 2003. She basically said that everyone in the room (mostly small or hobby beekeepers) had to stop using pesticides now. We need to be the leaders in the process of selection for Varroa resistance because we can take the hit of losing colonies for a few years until progress is sufficient for the Winter losses to end." It is not only time for Beekeepers to unite in Alaska to breed a good stock for Alaska but it is time for beekeepers across America and the Globe to unite to breed bees for the health and welfare of the honey bee. Marla thinks that small hobby beekeepers can be responsible for accomlplishing this task, and I think so too, not to say that we would not need help from larger even commercial beekeepers and breeders. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:19:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <1d2.17ee1ef2.2d38735c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy, There are several different methods to raise queens - without having to buy pieces of equipment. A general search on the net - under Bees +Queens + Rearing with a certain amount of site selection will indicate most of the techniques. Most are either simple to quite simple to undertake and will produce queens in limited quantities - as you indicated was your wish. Queen quality will depend on health of stock colonies, climatic conditions during the raising / fertilisation period. Enjoy you experience. Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:09:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: Imidaclopride (was G.M. bee) In-Reply-To: <004101c3db90$b4afcea0$6b01017d@eth07> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also one could contact: Isabelle Giroux. Ministry of Environment, Quebec, Canada. Re: Imidaclopride (amongst others) ground water contamination as found in potato cultivation areas. Regards, Peter :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:38:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Zachary Huang Subject: Re: honey bee plant database Comments: To: Chuck Norton Wow! five responses within 24 hours (and over 100 hits!) on the demo page is pretty impressive! I just hope the funding agencies are half as enthused with this project. In answering some of the questions raised: 1). no, you do not need to log in to use the database. 2). pollen and honey info are both provided -- you have to click the image to see the full description. 3). right now there is only 10 plants (hence a demo). We will try to finish about 100 Michigan plants within 2 years. 4). if we get more funding, national database is possible (might be >500 plants), but we do need to have the labor to put them into the computer (not to mention slide scanning takes so much time). Prof. Ayers says his bee forage plant book will be out in 2011, but this web will give you a taste of what will be in there. Cheers, Zachary Huang, MSU http://plants.bees.net (10 plant photo demo page) http://photo.bees.net (>700 bee photos) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:20:43 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would like to know the way to raise queens for a hobby beekeeper. This method is one that Norm Rice, one of Australia's best queen bee breeders (now retired), suggests. Take a strong double hive that has a queen excluder in place. Take two or three frames of young larvae from the bottom box, shake the bees back into the bottom box. Put empty combs back in the bottom and remove three or four frames from the top super and place the two or three frames of young brood in the top box. Place a bar of cell cups in the empty space in the top super. Put back together. The next day, remove the top super, and place a couple of sheets of newspaper on top of the queen excluder and punch a couple of small holes in the newspaper. Replace the top box. Take out your bar of cell cups and graft your selected larvae into them. Place back on hive. Ten days later your cells will be ready to place out in mating nucs or in demareed hives. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:32:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bernard SAUBOT Subject: Imidaclopride (was G.M. bee) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I just got the answer from Dr Bonmatin : he is referring to a recent = study organised in Quebec by the ministry of environment in relationship = with the culture of potatoes . A purpose of the study was to determine if a pollution of underground = waters was to be established, in relationship with the production of = potatoes . The results are unfortunately not surprising : yes, that kind of = pollution is existing, and as far as Imidaclopride is concerned, the = levels found in some water samples were around 38 ppb . I realise there was another question regarding GM plants modified to get = the capacity to absorb quantities of herbicides without dying, but I am = not sure that this forum is the right place to develop talks about GMO . It is just that as consumers, we take a great care -or we're trying to = do so - to what is arriving in our plates, and we know that most of the = herbicide resistant GM plants do absorb the herbicide, and then express = the resistance . When eating plants, we don't want to eat those = herbicides . May be, you can just now more easily understand that after 10 years of = the so called "mad cow", european people are more than ever concerned by = the quality of agricultural products... Bernard Saubot :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:58:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Feeding in the middle of a cold winter. In-Reply-To: <20040115.110004.20461.410008@webmail13.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-547C4587; boundary="=======77DF5C68=======" --=======77DF5C68======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-547C4587; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Now, where do I get a hive scale... :) I bought a commercial package scale from WWGrainger...about $75. I tip the hive sideways, insert the scale between the hive stand, and bottom board, and tip the hive up onto the scale. One person can easily weigh the hive. Mike --=======77DF5C68=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:09:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <40072227.70502@cox-internet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-547C4587; boundary="=======5AEF3635=======" --=======5AEF3635======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-547C4587; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Swarm Queens are always the best queen as they are raised in the >best of conditions. > Charlie I haven't found supercedure queens to be inferior, and don't think they are necessarily raised in poor conditions. Some would say that raising queens from swarm cells would lead to colonies more prone to swarming. Mike...opening a can of worms. --=======5AEF3635=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:44:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <1d2.17ee1ef2.2d38735c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-547C4587; boundary="=======48C43DA4=======" --=======48C43DA4======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-547C4587; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >I would like to know the way to raise queens for a hobby beekeeper. Is >there a good method that does not >involve buying new equipment? >Kathy Cox Think about what is needed for bees to raise quality queen cells. Plenty of nurse bees, a good pollen and nectar flow, larvae of the proper age, and good genetics. Nurse bees can be raised by adding combs of emerging bees. Flows, if non-existant, can be imitated by feeding thin syrup, and adding a comb of fresh pollen. Genetics can be selected for by using eggs/larvae from your best colonies. Larvae of the proper age...here's a trick. Separate the brood boxes with a queen excluder. Queen and sealed brood go in bottom box, unsealed brood goes in top box. Nine days later, check both for started queen cells. Destroy any found. On morning tenth day, here's what you have: Bottom box has queen. Brood has been hatching, and queen laying in those combs. There should be several combs of unsealed larvae...being fed by an abundance of nurse bees. Top box contains only sealed brood, and stores. No eggs here for the last nine days. Separate the colony. Use top box as cell builder. Shake five combs of nurse bees into top box from bottom...don't take queen...you may want to shake them through an excluder to be sure. Remove bottom box/queen to new location. After noon, here's what you have...a queenless colony...full of nurse bees...with no larvae to feed. They absolutely "freak." Running all over trying to save the colony...flying about the yard looking for a queen...totally distressed. What would happen if you gave this colony larvae of the proper age to build queen cells? Yes, those motherless nurse bees would devote ALL their energy to rearing a new mother. How you give them those larvae needed depends on you. You can graft, or add a comb of eggs/young larvae. The former takes a little practice, and a little extra equipment, while the latter will have cells that have to be dug out of the comb. I prefer to graft, as it really is the best method. I have seen the comb added on top of the frames, laying flat (horizontal)...on shims to keep it up off the top bars. While the queen cells must be dug out in about ten days, at least they are hanging straight down. You could use a "new" freshly drawn comb with eggs/young larvae, and the cells will be easier to remove. Or, you could use the Miller method to obtain larvae of the proper age and position on a comb to be easily removed when cells are ripe. Hope this helps Mike > --=======48C43DA4=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:17:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tim Vaughan Subject: African scam In an email I recieved from beeactor2001 there was, included in the email intitled Apis newsletter January, a solicitation for funds for an African honey investment opportunity to be located in Ghana. As a citizen of an African country please allow me to inform those of you (I trust few) who don't already suspect, that this is a scam. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:29:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: TxBeeFarmer Organization: The Little ~ Coldiron Farm Subject: Re: G.M. bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G.M. Bees? Personally, I'm a Ford man. (West Texas) Mark :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:43:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Dr. Pedro Rodriguez" Subject: Re: imidaclopride Good morning folks from a very cold Virginia Beach. I would like to add my observations to the thread on imidaclopride. As many of you may know, I have been doing honey bee research with FGMO in Spain for the last 5 years. In those 5 years I have seen thousands of hives die from the effects of imidaclopride. Bees affected by this substance leave the hive to harvest and never return. Affected hives seem perfectly healthy, some with frames full of honey yet few bees. Eventually the bee population dwindles down a small bunch of bees around the queen and very little if any brood. These observations have been made on bees harvesting on sunflower fields. Best regards and God bless. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:24:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. I have printed out the material and will sit down tonight and study all that you have told me. This is why I love the internet...so much to learn, and willing teachers. I know that if I ask 10 beekeepers the same question, I'll most likely get 10 different answers. So, I will look at everything and go from there. Thanks again listers, Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 14 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:50:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Pentek, Laszlo (DISR)" Subject: Houston MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'll bee in Houston, TX a wee bit next month. Any bee people in that area? Meeting bee people beats lame golf outings any day... Thanks. -Bee good :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:37:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040116070350.00b7bd48@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Palmer wrote: >> Swarm Queens are always the best queen as they are raised in the >> best of conditions. >> Charlie > I haven't found supercedure queens to be inferior, and don't think they are > necessarily raised in poor conditions. Some would say that raising queens > from swarm cells would lead to colonies more prone to swarming. Sorry for not cutting much, but... both statements are true and both are false. If you look at the archives there several threads about raising queens from swarms, splits and supercedure. What I carried away from the discussion was if the conditions are right you get good queens but if not, you can easily get inferior queens. My experience was you can do it for a while (even doing everything right) and get away with it, but in the long run, it is better to purchase queens and break the cycle. You may think you are breeding a better bee, but it does not always work out that way. The books are right. Most commercial beekeepers on this list who have been around for a long time requeen and manage to prevent swarms and supercedure. Most who were adamant about using swarms and supercedure are not around. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:14:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Herv=E9=20Log=E9?= Subject: Imirie method In-Reply-To: <004301c3dc01$42512cc0$b744ddcb@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I applied Imirie method (switching the two brood boxes every two weeks) last year. But I would like to ask those who use it why "every 2 weeks" ? I understood boxes are switched to let the upper boxe as a space for the queen laying (once new born bees left free cells). But I felt that brood is quite widespread in boxes and I switched boxes without really knowing if my "switching rythme" was in phase with the queen laying. I am quite reluctant to look at 4 frames per box every week in every hive to know where is the caped brood and where are eggs. Explanation and experience to help ? Hervé _________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:42:25 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Christine Gray Subject: Re: Feeding in the middle of a cold winter. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Now, where do I get a hive scale... :) >From your bathroom, when your spouse is not looking. Just lift one side of a hive, slip in the bathroom scales up to a line u draw across the middle (so u always put it in the smawe place), and lower the hive on. Not very accurate but enough t separate light hives from heavy ones - and more reliable than just hefting by hand. Robin Dartington :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:40:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Jan 2004 to 15 Jan 2004 (#2004-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/01/04 05:03:36 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > I have looked at the archives and am confused. I was told that supercedure > queens are better than swarm queens. Which is right? > > Either or both depending on circumstances. A swarm queen will have received optimum nutrition, but so will most supersedure queens with the possible exception of induced emergency supersedure. But a swarm queen may carry genes that are more inclined the make her swarm than a supersedure queen is. If this is a relevant factor in your beekeeping you should take it into account. The tendancy to supersede rather than to swarm is inherited and can be valuable and sought after, depending on your style of beekeeping. If you are into queen rearing as a hobby or a business, then managed swarminess is an asset as those bees tend to rear more queen cells well. If you want to avoid swarming problems and to rear just a few of your own queens, letting some achieve their natural life span, then supersedure is what you should seek. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:19:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/2004 6:14:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, mpalmer@TOGETHER.NET writes: >Swarm Queens are always the best queen as they are raised in the >best of conditions. > Charlie I haven't found supercedure queens to be inferior, and don't think they are necessarily raised in poor conditions. Some would say that raising queens from swarm cells would lead to colonies more prone to swarming. Mike...opening a can of worms. Mike, Ok! It seems that supercedure queens would have the very youngest eggs with which to produce queens. This would mean larger queens, who get fed more royal jelly. Worms, worms, worms..... Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 14 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:44:55 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Bill & All, >My experience was you can do it for a while (even doing everything >right) and get away with it, but in the long run, it is better to >purchase queens and break the cycle. You may think you are breeding a >better bee, but it does not always work out that way. The books are right. > I think that Marla Spivak is correct when she said it was time for us to stop using mitecides and to start breeding a resistant honey bee. If we continue to always buy replacement queens we can not break a cycle of losing colonies to mites without chemicals. What cycle are you speaking of Bill? . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ Caucasian Bee Keeper, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/ _________________________________________________________________ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:44:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Jan 2004 to 15 Jan 2004 (#2004-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/01/04 05:03:36 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > Now, where do I get a hive scale... :) > I exchanged a jar of honey and a piece of cut comb for a set of platform scales on the way to work this morning. The owner is in the food business and has gone to electronic scales. Unfortunately he can't find the weights so I may have to improvise. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 08:20:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Malone wrote: > Hi Bill & All, > >> My experience was you can do it for a while (even doing everything >> right) and get away with it, but in the long run, it is better to >> purchase queens and break the cycle. > What cycle are you speaking of Bill? The cycle is caused by problems other than varroa. Most books talk about problems with home grown bees. I did not believe them since I did not have the problems. But I did. Eventually, you have to bring in proven stock and that is the end of the cycle unless you start it again. If you raise your own in an area where there are many beekeepers you will end up not with the best bees, since you are inbreeding with the "chemical dependent" bee that you are trying to breed out. If you raise your own in an area with few beekeepers, you are perpetuating the problems of your own stock, even though they overwinter better and seem to be more tolerant of Varroa. Varroa resistance is not the be-all and end-all of beekeeping. We still have a multitude of problems that can bring down our colonies or result in characteristics that are not desired. There are plenty of good queen breeders who are doing just what we want and have to do so or they go out of business. They are not producing queens that are in any way inferior to our home grown. They are not producing "chemical dependent" queens any more than home grown are chemical free. My home grown bees did really well for several seasons, but in time they began to show problems. I requeened and they are doing much better. Bill Truesdell Bath, Maine :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 10:22:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ian Subject: Re: Imidaclopride (was G.M. bee) >>we know that most of the herbicide resistant GM plants do absorb the herbicide, and then express the resistance . When eating plants, we don't want to eat those herbicides Your comment specifically towards GM plants. Its resistance to a herbicide does not make it absorb and retain the herbicide and express it in your food. I think you will be hard pressed to find research to support that theory. As for the GM plant, it is grown no differently, or is grown any differently than anyother related non GM crop. The GM crop is just resistant to a certain type of non selective herbicide, Roundup in GM canola for eg. Just the same as all canola crops are resistant to the wild oat herbicide we spray on the crop. And just the same as wheat for eg is resistant to all broadleaf herbicides. To say that the herbicide sprayed on GM crops absob, and end up into our food is false. Herb sprayed on all crops would have to act in the same manner. I have never heard of traces of chemical showing up my food grown, from the herb that I applied. I hope that you were not making assumptions... Ian :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 15:46:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Leigh Hauter Subject: Re: raising queens In-Reply-To: <40093690.7070705@suscom-maine.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 8:20 -0500 1/17/04, Bill Truesdell wrote: > >Varroa resistance is not the be-all and end-all of beekeeping. We still >have a multitude of problems that can bring down our colonies or result >in characteristics that are not desired. True, I have a hive that has now gone 6 years without treatment but they are also very hot and poor honey producers. Their only remarkable or for that matter, desirable characteristic (from my point of view) is survivability. However, correct me if I'm wrong (I'm really a vegetable farmer who keeps bees) there is something very positive to be said for surviving without treatment. Therefore it doesn't seem to make sense replacing the non productive, hot but surviving hive's queen with a commercially grown queen. Instead, since I farm in an area with no other known beekeepers within at least five miles it seems to make sense to instead replace non-surviving hives with resistant commercial queens and by doing so to be including my surviving hives (hopefully good) characteristics to my bee's gene pool. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:15:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy E Cox Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/17/2004 2:17:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, alaskabeekeeper@HOTMAIL.COM writes: I think that Marla Spivak is correct when she said it was time for us to stop using mitecides and to start breeding a resistant honey bee. If we continue to always buy replacement queens we can not break a cycle of losing colonies to mites without chemicals. What cycle are you speaking of Bill? Last year's winter (02), I started with 6 hives. I came through with 2 hives of laying workers and one queenless hive, which I gave a frame of eggs from my best hive and it turned around. The hive I used the eggs from had early brood in 14 frames in an excellant laying pattern. The hive was exceedingly gentle. I used brood to make splits and nucs and to requeen swarms who didn't have eggs to make supercedure queens. I went into this winter with 18 hives (one an OB hive fall swarm that was lemon sized and really doesn't count). I have not used chemicals in the hives for the mites, chalkbrood, foulbrood or nosema. This winter I lost 2 hives due to lack of stores (beekeeper fault, I should have combined these 2 hives and given them honey from another hive). One hive at an out apiary got drowned by a bad wind and rain storm, while I was out of state for 3 weeks. I am now feeding all hives for spring buildup. I took several swarms issued from feral hives last year and will be watching those queens carefully. I use mesh bottoms and Serge Labesque's varroa trapping tray. With it I can tell without opening up the hive how big the cluster is, if it is in the first or second BB, if they are eating honey stores, if there is brood/queen, the mite count, if I have wax moths, etc. I feel that it is important to be stewards of the bees. I bought one queen last year. She layed for 2 weeks and I never saw her again. Kathy Cox, Northern California, Italian, 14 hives www.kathycox.frankcox.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:58:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: raising queens Greetings I have been working with bees since 1974 so I feel comfortable talking about the difference between commercial queens and homegrown ones. We have two quality issues here: the quality of the queen and the overall quality of the colony. Not the same. A supercedure or swarm queen may be big and fat and lay a zillion eggs, but the colony may be prone to disease or mean as hell. I think that if you let the bees raise their own queens for years or raise your own using your own stock, you needn't worry about inbreeding at all. The mating system of the honey bee virtually prevents inbreeding. Colonies can raise up to 5000 drones per year and the average colony is within range of hundreds of hives, so you can see the potential for inbreeding is small. You get mongrels, not inbred bees. It's like with dogs, if you aren't selecting both the mother and the father of each generation, you quickly lose any particular qualities you have -- and you certainly cannot move toward a quality you want. If you have a goal, you need to select for it, and use a technique that moves you toward that goal. Just letting the bees (or dogs) breed freely gets you mutts. Mongrels may be hardy critters, of course. But most of the crops and animals we use are selected and bred for particular qualities: taste, productivity, resistance to pests, and so on. Lots of cultivated species no longer exist in the wild forms. Many of the heavily bred types cannot exist without human care, but many also tend to revert backwards once they are no longer controlled by breeders. I would like to have a bee that is healthy, productive, and reasonably easy to manage. I think the future of beekeeping lies in controlled breeding. But others do not. Some point to wild vigorous types like those in South America that do not require breeding and excessive care. I certainly appreciate that view, even if it may not be practical for all areas. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:04:22 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: raising queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Peter & All, >I would like to have a bee that is healthy, productive, and reasonably easy >to manage. I >think the future of beekeeping lies in controlled breeding. > You want the same that most all beekeepers want. Extreme controlled breeding, such as I.I. or A.I., and letting the bees do their own thing are polarized and probably neither are the best way to breed a stock that will give us the qualities we as beekeepers desire. The answer to breeding bees that beekeepers desire probably lays in the middle of the road but all beekeepers must work together to accomplish this. The gene pool will be larger if we as beekeepers rear and breed queens in addition to trading and sharing material. We do not have to be polarized on developing a manageable honey bee. . . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:53:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Subject: Re: Weighing a hive in winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin Dartington wrote: slip in the bathroom scales up to a line u draw across the middle (so u always put it in the smawe place), and lower the hive on. (to weigh the hive.) If you put a slab of wood between the scale and the hive, balance the hive on that slab of wood when lowered, you would have almost the exact weight of the hive. Mike Located 1/2 way between Mobile and Montgomery, Alabama :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:57:00 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Keith, replying to Peter, said... > You want the same that most all beekeepers want. Extreme controlled > breeding, such as I.I. or A.I., and letting the bees do their own thing are > polarized and probably neither are the best way to breed a stock that will > give us the qualities we as beekeepers desire. The answer to breeding bees > that beekeepers desire probably lays in the middle of the road but all > beekeepers must work together to accomplish this. I see no need for 'polarisation'... II is seen by many as an extreme technique, but in reality is no different to putting a bull and a cow in a single pen and allowing nature to take it's course (it is merely controlled fertilisation). I do not say that it is not open to abuse, but it is a useful tool and should be employed when needed. The objective of any breeding program, no matter what methods are employed, should be to produce a bee that is 'improved' in some respect over it's predecessors. Such improvent should not be at the expense of any desirable characteristics that were in the 'un-improved' stocks. It is the implication that an 'improved' bee is deficient in some other ways that brings about the polarisation that is being talked of. It is also important in breeding to ensure that the trait being bred for is naturally propagated and does not need to be re-created on a regular basis by 'special techniques'. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:36:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chuck Norton Subject: Virginia Legislative Alert Subj: Fwd: Legislative Alert Date: 1/16/2004 3:46:05 PM Eastern Standard Time From: "Keith Tignor" To: Sent from the Internet (Details) To all Beekeepers..... If you have watched the news at all, you know that the Virginia lawmakers are in session. The two bills introduced that are of particular interest to beekeepers are listed below. We are asking that you immediately contact your Delegate and Senator to convince them to support these bills. Please pass this info to any other beekeeper you may feel to be interested. SB-199....Damage Compensation to be extended to beekeepers for losses to bees and bee equipment. ( partner bill in lower house: HB-1069 ) SB-200....Amends Plant Pollination Board structure to assist in setting up new Queen Bee research and development program in Virginia. This beekeeper sees these bills as worthy of your support. Your assistance to contact as many of the state lawmakers as possible to convince them to support passage of both bills is requested. Phone calls, emails, and personal letters will show we are interested in protecting the bees. Thank you... :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 17:51:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: raising queens Dave: It is the implication that an 'improved' bee is deficient in some other ways that brings about the polarisation that is being talked of. It is also important in breeding to ensure that the trait being bred for is naturally propagated and does not need to be re-created on a regular basis by 'special techniques'. I agree with point number one. While so-called improved types are often good in some areas and poor in others, it is not necessarily so. For example, breeders created excellent work dogs for centuries. Overly inbred types come about when certain traits are selected without regard for health and vigor. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that part two of the point is a problem. For example, one grafts a certain type of apple onto hardy rootstocks, but realizes that the seeds of the apple will probably not produce a good apple. I am afraid that the qualities obtained by breeding bees need to be maintained and cannot be expected to be self-propagating. I think there is a tendency to revert to generic types. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:20:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Alan Fiala Subject: Seeking picture of German Black bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone send me a URL or photo of a German Black bee? We want it to use in a class. Alan Fiala Northern Virginia :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:16:41 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > I am afraid that the qualities obtained by breeding bees need to be > maintained and cannot be expected to be self-propagating. I > think there is a tendency to revert to generic types. Your statement above is only true if you do not take enough care in selection or work with poor starting material. A breed or strain of bees that needs to be propagated by artificial means (and F1 hybrid for example), may well be very good from a commercial point of view ($$$ for the breeder), but unpredictable effects of further crosses is of no service to the rest of the population. Maybe that does not matter because the $$$ have been spent? Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:01:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: raising queens I said: I am afraid that the qualities obtained by breeding bees need to be maintained and cannot be expected to be self-propagating. I think there is a tendency to revert to generic types. Dave: Your statement above is only true if you do not take enough care in selection or work with poor starting material. reply: I don't see how it can hinge on selection if you are only selecting one side (the queen) and letting them mate with the neighborhood drones. That would be like trying to raise collies by letting a pure bred female out at night. In a very short time you would no longer have collies. They might be good dogs, but they would not be a "breed". Dave: A breed or strain of bees that needs to be propagated by artificial means (and F1 hybrid for example), may well be very good from a commercial point of view ($$$ for the breeder), but unpredictable effects of further crosses is of no service to the rest of the population. Maybe that does not matter because the $$$ have been spent? reply: I do not raise queens to sell, so I am not presenting the view point of someone who is making money from bees. I want good bees for myself and if I thought I could make them by selecting only queens, I would. I bought a very gentle carniolan strain, raised queens from it and let them mate with the neighborhood bees. The result was bees mean as hornets. pb :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:39:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee communication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anybody point me towards current/recent research into use of the infra red band by bees? As an example is it a factor in returning foragers and nectar receivers meeting efficiently? Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:52:21 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: raising queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter > I don't see how it can hinge on selection if you are only selecting one side > (the queen) and letting them mate with the neighborhood drones I was never suggesting this! The selection occurs (or at least should occur) in the previous generation to find colonies that are 'likely candidates' for both the queen side and drone side of the proposed matings. The resulting offspring then require further selection to ensure that the desireable features are present or enhanced, without losing features that were previously thought to be desirable. This is what I understand by improvement. I am not sure how 'selecting one side' ever crept into this discussion. > I bought a very gentle carniolan strain, raised queens from it and > let them mate with the neighborhood bees. The result was bees > mean as hornets. Your example has many duplicates among many beekeepers and is a typical outcome of expecting to breed a race or strain that is not compatible with the background population of bees. If you wish to propagate carniolan bees, then your starting point must be multiple populations of non related strains of carniolan bees, each of which has been morphometrically analysed to prove race. You will then need to either saturate the area with your own drones (very, very difficult) or use instrumental insemination (much simpler than most people think). The progeny of many of these colonies need to be tested and assessed, with the thumb and forefinger brought ito play if any queen does not come up to standard, it is this culling of the bad that has a big influence on the end result. This end result should be the gentle carniolan bees that you originally desired. Once you have a large enough population of your new strain and a few generations under your belt the chances of breeding true are greatly increased, but you will always need the thumb and forefinger for fine tuning your quality control. There are too many that attempt to do this and fail, because they use too few strains in the first place and end up with inbred strains with poor performance. Use enough typed strains and be diligent enough in your testing, follow this with selecting to a firm set of rules and characteristics and you will not fail... However there is considerable work involved to do it properly. Best Regards & 73s, Dave Cushman... G8MZY Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website Email: cyberbeek@tiscali.co.uk or dave@dave-cushman.net http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman & http://www.dave-cushman.net :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:31:36 -0600 Reply-To: whitehousefarm@mindspring.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Carol Mark Subject: Re: Bee communication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII hi chris, i don't know much about "what bees see", only what i have read and it was my understanding that bees see ultraviolet to the near red range, but not into the infrared at all. i sure would appreciate knowing more about this subject, good topic Carol Mark > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/21/2004 12:16:37 AM > Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Bee communication > > Can anybody point me towards current/recent research into use of the infra > red band by bees? As an example is it a factor in returning foragers and nectar > receivers meeting efficiently? > > Chris > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::