From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 08:49:55 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.7 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02F749063 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SDdDKH012145 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:44:18 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0409B" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 122190 Lines: 2747 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:36:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Honey bottling valves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jack: I have been using a 3/4" ball valve for bottling. It has a stainless steel ball and a plated brass body. My recollection is that it cost about $10 US. It drips less than my purpose made " dripless " valve. If you are filling large pails, it might be better to use a 1" valve. Best regards Donald Aitken --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 06/09/2004 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:00:43 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Re: Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris & All, > If you find that some hives are better at damaging mites than others it might > be one of the factors to consider in your selection policy. > Selection for what? . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:14:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Everyone, I have two somewhat related questions. I use a Maxant Uncapping Plane to uncap all the frames from about 35 colonies. Although it is heavier than a knife, it has less stress on the wrist. The problem is I am on the third heating element and this one may be going. The seem to last about two years. I only have power to the unit when I am actually uncapping. I use a foot control to avoid overheating or just forgetting to turn it off. I realize the heat has to transfer from the element to the copper blade but I am unable to uncap a complete frame. By the time I am half way down the second side the blade has cooled enough that I am pulling the cappings rather than cutting them. I don't think I am overusing this and the fact that it is the third element I am wondering if there is an overall problem. I would have thought that this plane would easily handle 100 colonies and last a few years between elements. I don't want to keep replacing elements and thought about just buying a new one. But before I do I was wondering what others using this tool were doing. Second question. I harvested a super of very dark honey. It looks just like buckwheat, but has a very mild taste. It appears this was filled in the last few weeks. Goldenrod has been blooming well but I thought it was not as dark as this and would have a stronger taste. Asters have started blooming but I don't think that is it either. Whatever it is there is a very strong flow as packing it everywhere they can. The colonies are located on a wildlife sanctuary. There are no cultivated fields close by but there are some a few miles away. I don't know of any loostrife stands in this area. Again the only plant I see blooming in numbers is goldenrod. Any thoughts on what this may be? Thanks in advance. Ron Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:49:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Maxant Uncapping Plane ... third heating element ... foot control to turn it off.... Perhaps this is the problem, the constant on/off action (SWAG). I used to use an uncapping plang (before my Cowen Silver Queen) and never had a problem. I would leave it on constantly, resting in the cappings to avoid overheating between frames. > harvested a super of very dark honey. My guess is Knotweed or Japanese Bamboo (Latinus unknowtous). Lots in the archives. It is an exotic invasive commonly found in damp areas, blooming right now in upstate NY, produces copious amounts of dark, reddish, pleasant honey. Aaron Morris - thinking winter is just around the corner. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:19:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Second question. I harvested a super of very dark honey. It looks > just like buckwheat, but has a very mild taste. It appears this was > filled in the last few weeks. Are you seeing many aphids? We are here this year. In occasional previous Falls when we have seen similar numbers of aphids, we have also seen light flavoured, very dark coloured honey and we concluded that the source of the dark colour was honeydew from the aphids. Fortunately that honey was a hit with our local and mail-order customers. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:28:23 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Two Questions > I use a Maxant Uncapping Plane... > ...I am on the third heating element... > I use a foot control to avoid overheating... > By the time I am half way down the second side the blade has > cooled enough that I am pulling the cappings rather than cutting them. I don't own one, but I'd get out a volt meter and check the voltage at the foot switch, the uncapper cord (both ends) and the connection to the thermostat (if any) and heating element. Clearly the heating element gets voltage, and sufficient voltage at first, but then the connection gets broken somehow, and the element cools. Heating element failure is most often a "catastrophic failure" - they fail, and never heat up again. This happens, but only after a number of repeats of the problem you describe. Armchair Detective analysis indicates: a) If your plane has a thermostat, it is perhaps set too low. The element heats up fine, but the thermal load of the comb requires more heat, and the thermostat is set too low to supply "enough" heat, and the element goes cold "whenever used". b) Failing after movement down the comb implies that the uncapping plane power cord would be moving/twisting as the plane moves, so this might be a flaky power cord. c) I've seen foot pedals and switches exhibit all sorts of weird behavior, as the forces applied by the weight of a foot can do some serious damage. Don't rule out a "flaky" switch, or one that is makes a partial connection, heats up from current flow, and breaks the contact just like a "thermal circuit breaker". d) The heating element itself could be expanding and contacting "too often" with the foot-switch approach, and either making the electrical connection screw/nut loose through expansion/contraction cycles. Star washers are your friend here. How could any of the above cause premature failure of the heating element itself? Well, elements are made of metal of a certain thickness, and each will survive only a finite number of "heat up/cool off" cycles before the metal breaks. All of this on/off cycling might be the basic cause of the premature heating element failures. jim (Do what you can, where you are, with what you have.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:00:01 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Aphids In-Reply-To: <005201c495b7$339b5c30$2db85ad1@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Alan, Honey dew honey is big in some parts of Europe. My Croatian colleagues put hives in spruce/fir forests to collect it. Often wondered why I never heard reports of the same from N. America. Jerry :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "John R. Cunningham" Subject: honey bottling valves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walter Kelley Co has the plastic valves. I have used them in the past. = Check their catalog or Kelleybees.com. John Cunningham Perrysville, IN 108 hives and growing :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:19:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Two Questions In-Reply-To: <005201c495b7$339b5c30$2db85ad1@Nemo> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT allen & all, >>Second question. I harvested a super of very dark honey. It looks >>just like buckwheat, but has a very mild taste. It appears this was >>filled in the last few weeks. >> >In occasional previous Falls when we have seen similar numbers of aphids, we >have also seen light flavoured, very dark coloured honey and we concluded >that the source of the dark colour was honeydew from the aphids. > Very interesting. Here in Alaska honeydew is indeed a dark colour, but it has a very strong flavor. Tom Elliott Chugiak, AK :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:58:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Americal Foulbrood Spreading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bees will fly a long way for a free meal, particularly in times of local dearth. Prof Ratneiks at Sheffield University reports that his bees at Sheffield regularly gather heather honey from the moors about 8 miles away. This has been confirmed by marking bees. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:27:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Said, > Second question. I harvested a super of very dark honey. It looks just > like buckwheat, but has a very mild taste. It appears this was filled > in the last few weeks. > Ron, The honey you are speaking of may be from Japanese Knotweed AKA Japanese Bamboo-an invasive and definitely unwanted weed. I purchased some knotweek honey when at a workshop in PA several years ago. Knotweed is related to buckwheat. Hold the jar up to the light. If the color is that of deep red wine, it is probably knotweed. I found the flavor to be very good. The plant blossoms late summer to frost. Coleene > > + > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 18:49:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: High Moisture Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LeavesHi, Here in Michigan we had a very wet spring and early summer. I have followed the thread on the high moisture honey with interest. I pulled honey on Friday, 9/3 and extracted on Saturday, 9/4. The honey is thinner than in the past-less viscous. I extracted approximately 65 medium frames and 9 shallow. Only one side of one frame of all that I extracted was partially uncapped, and that was the outermost side of one of the frame next to the super wall-a shallow. What is the possibility of this honey being too high moisture since it was virtually 100% capped. Thanks, Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:58:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Charles Harper Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey In-Reply-To: <005b01c495f6$25c09cd0$1b64ead8@coleene8roq280> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in south Louisiana fully capped honey is running 19.5% to 22%. All my honey had to be dried 105 drums. Harper's Honey Farm Charlie labeeman@russianbreeder.com Ph# 337 896 5247 Coleene wrote: > > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:01:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What is the possibility of this honey being too high moisture since > it was virtually 100% capped. I've never seen any direct corrlation between capping and moisture. I consider the oft-repeated advice to wait for cappings and then feel safe to be an 'old spouses tale'. You need to compare to a known standard. A refractometer is nice, but a sample of known moisture in a similar bottle filled equally and at identical temperature makes a good comparison. Invert them both and compare the rate at which the bubbles go up. The faster rising bubble is in the thinner honey. Usually that means the moister honey, unless one sample is thixotropic (see archives) or partially granulated. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:39:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The honey is thinner than in the past-less viscous. >What is the possibility of this honey being too high moisture since it was virtually 100% capped. Generally speaking being capped means the moisture is in the correct range but not always. Generally speaking sealed honey in our area will be in the 19.5 % range if the weather has been rainy. Unsealed honey or nectar *can* run as high as 22% moisture content in our area. Only a small amount can raise the moisture content of honey in the 18.5% range . Sealed honey will pick up moisture if kept in an area of high humidity. I always tell beekeepers which have not got a moisture tester or a method of testing the moisture to take a jar of store honey and a sample of theirs and set together in a room until the temperatures are the same (important). Then turn both jars and compare. you should be able to tell easily if your honey is too thin. Most store honey is around the 18.5% range. If too dry many packers add water to get the honey in the 18 % range (little known fact). Honey from the Dakota's can be so thick the honey is hard to spin from the comb as most is in the 16% range in dry years. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:40:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coleene said: The honey you are speaking of may be from Japanese Knotweed AKA Japanese Bamboo-an invasive and definitely unwanted weed. I am very familier with the above plants so will comment. Knotweed ( Smartweed, doorweed, persicaria, lady's thumb, water pepper , etc.) which is a slang name for Heartsease (polygonum) and Japanese bamboo (actually chinese bamboo or sachaline) Polygonum sachalinense are two very different plants. The knotweed is not a problem for farmers and cows actually will eat knotweed (called smartweed in the Midwest ) but the bamboo is disliked by farmers as can grow to a height of 12 feet and is difficult to eradicate. Both are honey plants I have got hives on smartweed as far as the eye can see. Looks like a pink carpet. Pink and white are the midwest colors but I am told two other colors occur. When the honey is mostly smartweed the honey has a decent flavor, can be as dark as Buckwheat which the weed is of the same family and has a distinct odor which prevents most beekeepers from selling the smartweed as a specialty honey. People which like Buckwheat honey, people which believe the darker honey has more antioxidents and mead makers buy smartweed honey but bakeries buy the most from me. The japanese knotweed is an ornamental and normally found only in small plots so most honey plants books say of little importance as a honey plant but bees freely work all of the above and they bloom at a time in our area when little else is blooming. Sincerely, Bob Harrison :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:05:01 +1000 Reply-To: T & M Weatherhead Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What is the possibility of this honey being too high moisture since > it was virtually 100% capped. I have seen honey from the coastal tropical areas of north Queensland that was fully capped in the hive, taken immediately out of the hive and extracted. It went 22% moisture content on a refractometer reading.. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:27:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Allen Subject: Re: Aphids >we concluded that the source of the dark colour was honeydew from the aphids My guess, too, is that it's honeydew. We get it this time of year in Anchorage since there are few flowers left for bees to work on. It seems to have the flavor of molasses, though milder. Honeydew here in the U.S. gets little praise from beekeepers. At bee meetings it is often delicately couched in the euphemism "aphid-poop". Older, crustier beekeepers will likely use a more more graphic four letter word to describe it. I don't think that's completely accurate, though, is it? My understanding is that most of the sap aphids pump from trees bypasses the gut and is ejected through their cornicles. Can one of you entomologists comment on that? Regards, Dick Allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:35:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey In-Reply-To: <001201c49616$57606ac0$2abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-41E45841; boundary="=======2E3C47E5=======" --=======2E3C47E5======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-41E45841; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >Sealed honey will pick up moisture if kept in an area of high humidity. > Bob And visa-versa. Sealed honey left in a dry hotroom will lose moisture. Cut comb in its container will also dry out over time. I have some that is three years old, and never crystallized. It is now thick as glue. Mike --=======2E3C47E5=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:37:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Said, > Second question. I harvested a super of very dark honey. It looks just like buckwheat, but has a very mild taste. It appears this was filled in the last few weeks. I might add plants which are related to Buckwheat are found in many areas of the U.S. and all produce a very dark honey. Many beekeepers never see a dark honey in the U.S. as they pull and extract the crop in July before the dark honey producing plants produce honey . More than once when they see my entry at the state fair in the dark extracted class (dark as Buckwheat) and produced in Missouri they ask how high a temp does the honey need to be heated to produce a honey so dark . They really have never seen a dark honey produced in Missouri other than by their own carelessness in over heating honey which has crystallized. I then go get a jar and let the beekeeper smell the honey. Smartweed , goldenrod and most very dark fall honey has a slight smell with is detectable. I have never won a blue ribbon with smartweed honey but did get a second once. I have won a blue ribbon with goldenrod before in the dark extracted class but pure goldenrod honey is not as dark as smartweed or buckwheat. you can at times get the smell to leave goldenrod (by leaving open to air for a few days) but not smartweed . Mixing Goldenrod with clover loses the smell but you would need a heavy mix of clover for smartweed to lose the smell! When a dark honey is entered without a detectable smell the honey usually places higher in judging and should in my opinion. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Bee repellant to clear feral hives? > The discussion about Bob's experiments with the dropped Bee Quick > formula and Sucracide made me wonder if the dropped formula could be > used to clear a feral hive in a tree? You could, and lots of folks have sent me e-mail saying that they have driven bees from trees, walls, what-have-you with the current "production" Bee-Quick formula, but the problem is that one needs to realize that there is simply no way to afford product liability insurance premiums to cover such applications, moreso in areas where AHB are present, and that anyone in their right mind would say what I must say below: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <> WARNING!! MULTIPLE RISKS OF INJURY OR DEATH! <> <> NEVER USE BEE-QUICK ANYWHERE EXCEPT A BEEHIVE! <> <> ANY OTHER USE IS AT YOUR OWN RISK AND LIABILITY! <> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Now that I've made my legal beagles happy, let's assume that you are perfectly confident in your own bee-wrangling, climbing, high-wire hoisting, destruction, and construction abilities, and have signed a very thick set of documents absolving Fischer Alchemy, The James and Laura Fischer World Domination Fund, Fungi Fun Guys LLC, and me personally of any and all liability for even suggesting that you do something so silly as even climb a stepladder in pursuit of a feral bee colony or swarm. I can at least pretend to summarize what I might have heard in a presentation given at EAS 2004 on the subject of doing bee removals, with the understanding that I am not offering advise, but simply summarizing and commenting on the what might have been suggested by one who does this for money. (As an aside, this fellow described himself as the "Indiana Jones of Beekeepers", which is somewhat like being the "Batman of Actuarial Accountants".) You need a few things to use a purely hypothetical repellent to remove those highly hypothetical bees from that equally hypothetical tree or wall: a) Bees in an enclosed space (which means perhaps you are wrapping the tree with some of the giant rolls of "saran wrap" used to wrap pallets of boxes) b) An SINGLE entrance/exit for the bees (which means that you are blocking all secondary exits) c) An opening that you make (using hole saw, drill, small-scale explosives, whatever is handy) at the opposite end of the hive (several small holes may have to be drilled in the tree/wall to find the actual "top" or "bottom" of the hive.) One could then cover the hole with a thin cloth, soak the cloth with repellent, and plug a shop-vac hose into the shop-vac's exhaust vent to blow air through the cloth, and hence, into the hive, herding the bees toward (and out) the entrance. That's the theory. In theory, theory is the same as practice, but not in practice. In practice, your mileage may vary, and you may get nothing but a very funny story out of the experience. Driving bees off brood is very difficult, but if one thinks about the situation, one need not drive ALL the bees out. One only needs the queen to leave, and then duct-tape or staple a plastic queen excluder over the entrance to keep her from re-entering. From that point on, one can hive the queen, and with her, most of the colony in a nuc box or hive with yet another queen excluder over the entrance, and let the colony rob out its former home, raise the brood in the former home, and generally do most of the cleaning up for you. If one has a tree, one can then seal the entrances, or try to use a power washer and some hot water to remove the comb left behind. Another approach would be to cover the entrance(s) with 8-mesh, and let the wax moths take care of it for you. In a residential setting, one might want to physically remove all traces of the hive, but sealing entrances with 8-mesh and dropping a few wax moth larvae in might be a less destructive option to consider. jim (If you talk about fishing to a starving man, you're a consultant) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: honey from 1939 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, A close friend of mine gave me a gift yesterday of a still vacuum sealed (key opener still on top), unopened 5 lb. can of honey from 1939. I believe the honey is a one of a kind. The still perfect label reads: Bradshaw's Clover Blossom Honey US No. 1 Grade A Extra light Amber R.D. Bradshaw & Sons Wendell, Idaho 1939 I have been unable so far to locate Bradshaw Honey. Are they still around? The sons? I have instructed my family to donate the can to be sold at an ABF convention banquet auction with proceeds going to the ABF general fund after my death. Until then will be a conversation piece. Sincerely, Bob Harrison Ps. I would love to open the can but not bad enough to ruin a one of a kind part of beekeeping history. What would a 65 year old honey from a vacuum pack be like? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:53:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lynn Osborn Subject: Re: Americal Foulbrood Spreading I had read that it is rather difficult to transfer disease if you used some precautions when going from hive to hive or apiary to apiary. I also know that this disease is highly infectious so I wonder if my precaution are sufficient. I flame my hive tools and scrub them as well as scorch my smoker bellows. I wear throwaway gloves and change them between yard and after working any infected colonies. I wash my suit each day and take precautions to dispose of my gloves in a cardboard box that I carry with me. However I wonder if just walking around in a heavily infected yard and then going to another yard might spread the spores. There might be other things I hadn't thought of and I want to be absolutely certain that disease is not transferred to my yard or any other. This disease really surprises me. The original apiary where the beekeeper was leaving dead AFB infected hives to be robbed out is now disease free. As a matter of fact I inspected it yesterday and found the four remaining colonies out of 20 were not only disease free but one had 7 modified supers so full of bees and honey that they had built comb up through the inner cover and into the space between the inner cover and the raised outer cover. The other colonies had 4,5 and 6 supers totally full. What makes some hives thrive in the presence of so much disease and others die out always is a surprise. I doubt these hive avoided exposure to AFB but they never showed it and ended the year with an outstanding crop for this area so I can only assume that they have the traits or genetics the others didn't have. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:54:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks all for your help. I have not had this problem before, but our weather was very different this year too. I have ordered a refractometer and I will compare to know and find out where I am. Fortunately I have some honey left from last year and can mix if necessary. It is ungranulated, not fermented, very "thick" and still tastes good. Thanks again, Coleene :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:25:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If you find that some hives are better at damaging mites than others it > might > >be one of the factors to consider in your selection policy. > > > > Selection for what? Selection for bees that need less interference from the beekeeper to thrive in the presence of mites. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:15:35 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Curtis Crowell Subject: Re: Americal Foulbrood Spreading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have had limited experience with AFB, but in those instances where it has occurred I have seen little spreading of the disease, possibly because I pick it up soon and either treat or destroy the hive. It is also curious that I have only had single hives affected, even though there are hives close by they do not seem to be affected. I think it is a combination of genetic susceptibility; severity of exposure, and the general health of the colony to start with. I only wish I could pick up on the disease sooner, so I can skip the step of destroying wooden ware. I can only say that my reaction to having lost a few hives to it is that I am more rigorous about rotating out old brood comb, and doing a thorough brood nest inspection in the Spring, plus responding as soon as practicable when a hive seems to in distress w/o apparent cause. /C.Crowell - NJ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:20:31 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey > You need to compare to a known standard. A refractometer is nice, > but a sample of known moisture in a similar bottle filled equally > and at identical temperature makes a good comparison. But you can't do that until AFTER you extract, which will be too late. If you don't sort your supers by moisture content before you extract, you both loose the ability to dry out "wet" supers before extracting, and lose the chance to blend "wetter" with "drier" to yield "on spec" honey. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd much rather deal with moisture issues when the honey is still in the comb. There have been no SHB outbreaks near here, so we can warm and dehumidify full supers for a few days if we have to, and we seem to have to do this to about 1/4 to 1/3 the supers we harvest every year. For those who persist in thinking that refractometers are only for honey judges and big beekeeping operations, recall that an $80.00 refractometer is less expensive than even a single 5-gallon pail of honey at wholesale prices (60 lbs * $1.33 = $80.00). So even if you save only one 5-gallon pail (2 to 3 medium supers) of honey from fermenting, the refractometer pays for itself in the first season. Social-political and geo-economic concerns aside, the ones from Red China are not as bad as you might think. I bought an "RHB-90ATC" from Dadant (their model M00596, the middle-priced of the three available) for $79.95 when my much more expensive Atago took a one-way trip down a flight of stairs, and I can't complain at all. Nice bright and crisp display, automatic temp compensation, and good linearity/stability as compared to refractometer wielded by honey show judges. The only drawback is the cheap plastic box it comes in. Be advised that I was warned away from the cheapest ("economy") refractometer offered by Dadant. jim (The war on terrorism? "Mission Accomplished", then "Mission Miscalculated", and now, "Mission Impossible") :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:03:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Selecting Better Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris & All, > > Selection for what? > > > Selection for bees that need less interference from the beekeeper to thrive > in the presence of mites. > Thanks, for the reply. Am I safe in assuming that your suggesting that beekeepers Select for colonies that show damaged mites on bottom board debris and rear and mate queens from these possibly promising colonies? I think that is a great idea but that is coming from a me a person that believes that beekeepers should breed bees to improve their own beekeeping conditions. You have intrigued me to get a x10 pocket magnifying glass as you suggested and look at bottom board debris closer. Even though I can see without my glasses on real close up, and can see and count mites on a mite monitor board, the x10 pocket magnifying glass would definitely allow me to examine the mites for damage inflicted by the bees. Lots of beekeepers here in the USA simply buy a new queen from a queen breeder and toss the old queen when a colony is requeened successfully, so, candidates for genetic improvement literally gets wasted. I would hope that more beekeepers would begin to look at the bees they keep closer and breed for a better bee. Chris, that's what I like about British beekeepers, instead of depending on others to do your beekeeping most of y'all do your own. Maybe I am wrong. Thanks for the encouragement. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:38:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Two Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Harrison" > Knotweed ( Smartweed, doorweed, persicaria, lady's thumb, water pepper , > etc.) which is a slang name for Heartsease (polygonum) and Japanese bamboo > (actually chinese bamboo or sachaline) Polygonum sachalinense are two very > different plants. > Bob, Thank you for the distinction, this has been confusing for many of us around here. We have much more of the bamboo around here and it produces a pretty good honey crop some years. The honey from this plant, if the diagnosis is correct, is a medium to dark amber depending on the year. Would this be your diagnosis? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:43:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am writing a newsletter article about the blue shop towel (BST) delivery of menthol as a fall treatment for tracheal mites. Allen Dick's Beekeeper's Diary features a recipe to prepare 60 rolls of 55 sheets each to treat 3,300 hives once or 1,650 hives twice. http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2001/diary032001.htm That's overkill for my audience. I can roughly translate Allen's recipe to a single pound of Crisco vegetable oil to a pound of menthol crystals to soak a single roll of BSTs. I would be inclined to cut the roll of BSTs in half and divide the Crisco/menthol between the two half-rolls. I am not altogether comfortable with my conversions, especially to publish in a newsletter. I have googled to no avail to find an authorative recipe for a small batch of mentholated BSTs. Has anyone a recipe of pointer to one that is tested and true? Thanks in advance, Aaron Morris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:25:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Selecting Better Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Am I safe in assuming that your suggesting > that beekeepers Select for colonies that show damaged mites on bottom > board debris and rear and mate queens from these possibly promising > colonies? There was a beekeeper from Eastern Europe who had discovered and was promoting that idea with a book about ten years back. With the right search key, details will come up easily in the archives. The idea is good, and mite damage is one of the chaacteristics that breeders do look for and use in selection, but I think that selecting for mite damage has some problems. As I recall, the characteristic is variable in a colony and depends on he mite load, season, and some other factors that make it a little hard to rate. Moreover, John Harbo presented a list of selection characteristics that can be used in breeding for varroa resistance last year at the ABF, and I think that this characteristic was on the list (can't find my notes off hand), but if it was, it was near the bottom when they were ranked by heirability (and thus usefulness). Percentage of mites in brood was at the top of that ranking and highly heiritable, followed by SMR, and other traits, and thus, logically these more highly heiritable charcteristics receive much more weight. The problem is that the greater the number of characteristics that are used in selection, the more rapidly the gene pool narrows, and without bringing in new stock, the line dead ends quickly. Of course, if too much new stock is being brought in, how selective can that be? There is a practical limit to how many selection criteria one can use in a real world, in the short term at least. So, if one is lucky and finds that characteristic in an otherwise desirable and selected group, that is a bonus, otherwise, it can be a distraction. That's how I understand it, anyhow. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 02:53:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I can roughly translate Allen's > recipe to a single pound of Crisco vegetable oil to a pound of > menthol crystals to soak a single roll of BSTs. I would be inclined > to cut the roll of BSTs in half and divide the Crisco/menthol between > the two half-rolls. I am not altogether comfortable with my > conversions, especially to publish in a newsletter. Many recommend a half-roll, but also, many of them also mention bees driven off the brood, brood damage, etc. We found 1/3 was right for us, and our conditions are fairly cool, so in warmer places, beware. As it happens, I was at an oxalic research discussion/demo today, and in the discussion, menthol came up. A new commercial beekeeper had made up the towels, but found that they were hard to separate (he had stored them in a cold place, I gather) and therefore decided to make them on the spot as he went next time. He did, and it was not nice. I also gather that this (liquid, hot Crisco and menthol) was killing bees on contact and driving them out, too. Ugghhh! It is important IMO to use Crisco, and not some other brand, since some are not as flexible when cold. Also I can assure you no other towel but the blue shop towel works well. I've tried fooling around a bit with the formula. What I present on the pages works well for me and for others who have followed the instructions. The problem is that it is very hard to mention every detail and anticipate every misunderstanding readers might have. In a nutshell, about 6 grams of menthol and 6 grams of Crisco saturate a 1/3 roll of towel. I think Bob described here on BEE-L how to melt the Crisco and then the menthol in a coffeee can, then soak the roll. It is that simple. I think there should be a link to his BEE-L post from somewhere in my shop towel pages. See the third ref, below. http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/blueshoptowels.htm http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2001/diary041701.htm#Blue http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/blue2.htm http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/blue.htm There are about 55 sheets per roll, so about 330 g of each is required for a 1/3 roll. A half roll takes 10 grams of each for 550 g menthol and 550 g Crisco. Otherwise the process and details are just as described for our washtub amounts. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 03:42:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Chinese Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My wife returned from China last week, and brought home a jar of Chinese honey as a treat. We took it out at supper with beekeeper friends visiting to try it, and were amazed. If it is honey, it is not like any we have ever tasted. It felt _strange_ on the tongue, and the flavour was like an added perfume. Honey? HFCS? Ultra-filtered honey? Dunno. None of us wanted more. Yuck. Moisture? 24.6%! Picture: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/images/chinahoney.jpg allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:18:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: ALDEN MARSHALL Subject: Re: Americal Foulbrood Spreading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Americal Foulbrood Spreading > Bees will fly a long way for a free meal, particularly in times of local > dearth. > This is interesting how much honey do you suppose is left in the honey stomach after returning. Whatever it takes to get back has to be drawn upon to get there. I wonder if Jerry B. has any insight on this? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries NH 03051 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:29:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: OhioBeeFarmer Subject: Feeding back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently recovered some hives after a flood here in Ohio. I now have = 6 full super full of honey although all the super are capped and just = stuffed with honey I don't want to package this for my customers. I = want to feed this back to the bees and have tried in the past to put = excess honey over the inner cover so that the bees would take it down as = easy as I have heard. Is there any other ideas out there that would = allow me to feed this back without causing robbing and not just setting = it out in the open? Thanks Wet in Ohio :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:55:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a nutshell, about 6 grams of menthol and 6 grams of Crisco > saturate a 1/3 roll of towel. Ooops! That should say each _sheet_ of a 1/3 size roll. The rest is correct. > There are about 55 sheets per roll, so about 330 g of each is > required for a 1/3 roll. A half roll takes 10 grams of each for 550 > g menthol and 550 g Crisco. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:33:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: Chinese Honey In-Reply-To: <004901c4971a$6df2d070$2ab85ad1@Nemo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 It may have had citric acid to retard granulation and some type of flavor (perfume) added. Of course you know, but for some on the list, never feed any honey that you don't know the contents. It could contain spores of one type or the other. Could be deadly to the bees. Lionel -- 3Mbps Cable Modem provider (http://pclnet.net) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:52:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Suzanne Geisler Subject: beekeepers, hurricanes and floods MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reading the posting from the Ohio beekeeper who was flooded got me = thinking about the awful weather we've (the US) been having.=20 How are the beekeepers in Florida doing? How do you prepare your = apiaries for hurricanes? Floods? Suzanne Geisler Springboro, OH :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 15:40:35 +1000 Reply-To: T & M Weatherhead Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Chinese Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My wife returned from China last week, and brought home a jar of Chinese > honey as a treat. > Moisture? 24.6%! This is not legally honey as it is above the international legal limit which I think is around 21%. Are you going to give it to your CFIA for research? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:47:06 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: West Edmonton Mall - Again! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alberta Beekeepers Convention 2004: http://www.albertabeekeepers.org/ Edmonton info: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/misc/ABA2004.htm allen :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:21:22 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kevin Gibbs Subject: Re: Chinese Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be interesting to get someone who can read chinese to see exactly what is wrtten on the label. Kevin Gibbs :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:53:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Selecting better Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think that selecting for mite damage > has some problems. As I recall, the characteristic is variable in a colony > and depends on he mite load, season, and some other factors that make it a > little hard to rate. > The interesting thing about the one I tracked for same months was that as the number of mites increased the proportion of damaged ones increased. So it may be learning rather than inheritance (this was during the winter period so the bees were living longer). Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:46:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Selecting better bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/09/2004 05:02:25 GMT Standard Time, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU writes: > Am I safe in assuming that your suggesting that beekeepers Select for > colonies that show damaged mites on > bottom board debris and rear and mate queens from these possibly promising > colonies? Yes > You have intrigued me to get a x10 pocket magnifying glass as you suggested > and look at bottom board debris closer to examine the mites for damage > inflicted by the bees. > Great. Tell us what you see. Chris :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:35:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites Comments: To: Aaaron Morris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, I got this some time ago and saved it as I thought it might come useful. The proportion of menthol to canola seems to be the same the quantities are more manageable "1): Measure and mix the following: Place two standard packs of menthol crystals (3.4 oz. or 100 grams) in an 8-oz. (118.3 cc) measuring cup, and then add canola oil to fill. Microwave for 4 minutes at 50% power. Check to see that all crystals dissolved-if not, microwave for an additional minute at 50% power. Must be used while warm otherwise crystals will reform. 2): Add to paper towels: Remove 30 paper towels from one roll; fold in half and stack. Put stack of paper towels into a large zip-lock bag and add 1 cup of warm menthol-canola. Zip the bag shut then squeeze the towels in the bag until all towels are evenly saturated. If one end of towels is somewhat dry, turn the bag sideways putting dry end down-in about 10 minutes, all will be evenly saturated. Thus, one cup of menthol-canola mix will treat 30 paper towels-using 2 towels per colony, this will treat 15 colonies. Towels can be stored at room temperature indefinitely if the bag is zipped closed. 3): Add to colonies: Do not add to colonies while a honey flow is on. Place one paper towel over the top bars of each brood chamber. Best time to treat is September. (Tracheal mites are usually not a problem from May to September, so no menthol needs to be used until the time that mites begin to build up in late August or September). Colonies can be treated anytime during the winter when temperatures rise above about 45 F (8 C). We recommend this treatment whenever tracheal mites are found; additional treatments can be made in December, January and February. The bees will chew up the paper towels and discard them at the entrance in 3-4 days (or longer in winter). This mix caused no harm to our bees but definitely reduced or eliminated the tracheal mites. ----- Original Message ----- > >I have googled to no avail to find an authorative recipe for a > small batch of mentholated BSTs. Has anyone a recipe of pointer to one > that > is tested and true? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:46:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <003b01c49713$a8fa8660$2ab85ad1@Nemo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-72B4429; boundary="=======5D021F6E=======" --=======5D021F6E======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-72B4429; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I was at an oxalic research discussion/demo today >allen Tell us more about this. Mike --=======5D021F6E=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:29:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, In the U.S. many of us tried to use the approved menthol packets for TM control. Did not work in cold weather and cost beekeepers a bunch of money plus dead hives from TM. Sorry for your losses said the USDA.! The USDA-ARS came up with the shop towel method for colder areas of the U.S.. Many on Bee-L when I first talked about the method said illegal. I said not so which is correct. Now almost twenty twenty years later I say test and see if you even need to treat for TM as many lines do not need treatment and if they do not spring and fall.( and certainly not Sept., Dec., Jan. & Feb. as the method Ruary found and posted suggests). The method which the USDA_ARS came up with was presented to many beekeepers in an article in the American Bee Journal. My modified version is in the archives (using less menthol). I will comment on a few points in the below flawed (my opinion) method. >Place two standard packs of menthol crystals (3.4 oz. or 100 >grams) in an 8-oz. (118.3 cc) measuring cup, and then add canola >oil to fill. Microwave for 4 minutes at 50% power. Check to see that all crystals dissolved-if not, microwave for an additional minute at 50% power. Must be used while warm otherwise crystals will reform. The above is a Mickey Mouse way to get the result . I would never make the formula in the house due to smell and risk of spilling a chemical which stinks for months and doubt many beekeepers wives would lend the kitchen or microwave. The "must be used while warm otherwise the crystals will reform" says to me the crystals ARE NOT FULLY DISOLVED. Using your Barbeque grill or a hot plate outside and a coffee can is better and safer. >Towels can be stored at room >temperature indefinitely if the bag is zipped closed. The above makes me wonder if the writer has ever really made the mentholated towels? Even in a zip loc bag the menthol starts to disapate into the air. Soaks through even two zip loc bags, Stinks up the area the mentholated towels are for a very long time. I keep my menthol in the freezer which is the only place I have found to keep a pound of menthol to still be a pound the next season. "stored indefinitely at room temp" is simply BS! Is not so! >Place one paper towel over the top bars of each brood chamber. SHOULD SAY ACROSS END BARS AND NOT OVER BROOD NEST! >Best time to treat is September. SHOULD GIVE TEMP RANGES INSTEAD OF SEPT as all beekeeping is local. >(Tracheal mites are usually not a problem from May to September, so no menthol needs to be used until the time that mites begin to build up in late August or September). Tracheal mites can be a problem any time when infestation are high. I believe the writer of the above is getting TM and varroa mixed up. TM is usually seen as a dwindling of the hive over a certain period of time. TM reproduces in the tracheal of bees over a given period of time regardless of time of year unlike varroa.. Varroa peaks in fall after a season of reproducing in BROOD. Treatment is done many times for TM before the cold winter in the north as losses from TM in winter are common but TM can kill a hive any time of the year in areas without a winter cold period. >Colonies can be treated anytime during the winter when temperatures rise above about 45 F (8 C). Correct but a higher temperature with menthol produces better results. Should say the temperature needs to be above 45F. for the entire treatment period. >We recommend this treatment whenever tracheal mites are found; additional treatments can be made in December, January and February. Tells me the above treatment is not very effective as a single treatment period (two applications) should clear TM. I believe the writer is only guessing as to control & need to treat ( as many beekeepers do) and is wasting time and money ( not unusual with many beekeepers). >This mix caused no harm to our bees but definitely reduced or eliminated the tracheal mites. Should be: After the Sept. treatment period we tested bees under a microscope and found we had eliminated the TM. problem. Please do not tell me a noted beekeeper or researcher provided the method and information! The method is based in fact but like giving you a recipe and leaving out important steps. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 03:20:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Now almost twenty years later I say test and see if you even > need to treat for TM as many lines do not need treatment But the key here is test, test, test. TM resistance is not consistent in many commercial lines or from generation to generation. We discussed this some time back and a chart from USDA and some discussion can be seen at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/articles/tracheal.htm. At http://msa.ars.usda.gov/la/btn/hbb/rgd/survey.htm DANKA, R. G. and J. D. VILLA say, "The most striking result of this survey was the variability in levels of tracheal mite resistance among colonies of U.S. commercial breeding stock. This breeding population can be expected to yield propagated queens that range widely in quality: some queens will be useful in improving stock by imparting resistance, while others will predispose their colonies to damaging mite infestations. In the absence of knowledge about the resistance levels of individual breeder colonies, the performance (vis-a-vis tracheal mites) of production colonies headed by commercial queens becomes largely a matter of the chance associated with a queen producers' random selection of a grafting source from among his or her breeder colonies. " > > Microwave for 4 minutes at 50% power. Check to see that all crystals > > dissolved-if not, microwave for an additional minute at 50% power. > > Must be used while warm otherwise crystals will reform. > > The above is a Mickey Mouse way to get the result . I would never > make the formula in the house due to smell and risk of spilling a > chemical which stinks for months and doubt many beekeepers wives > would lend the kitchen or microwave. If I recall, menthol is also flammable (explosive?). > Using your Barbeque grill or a hot plate outside and a coffee can is > better and safer. And constant attention is necessary or you'll have a fire or evaporate all your menthol out of the mixture. >> Place one paper towel over the top bars of each brood chamber. > > SHOULD SAY ACROSS END BARS AND NOT OVER BROOD NEST! That's for sure, and we went to 1/3 towel from the 1/2 because that was all we found we needed. Not two towels. They need two, because they use cheap household towels rather than the thick, absorbent shop towels, and because they use twice the dose we do. > > Best time to treat is September. I agree with Bob on this. Best time to treat is when you know you have tracheal mites and can see that they will reach damaging levels, the weather is appropriate, and there are no supers on. That leaves most of us with spring or Fall. I had some reservations about this article as well. It is in our archives, and was in some of the references I provided recently, but has some serious flaws IMO. The menthol does is twice what we use, and placing that many towels above the brood will drive the bees off it for sure. Bob brought the blue shop towel method to our attention, and many of us have adopted it. If done right, it is simple, places the menthol where it actually does some good, ON TOP of the hive, and ensures it evaporates. Recent discussion in Saskatchewan reveals that the Hamilton boards, a similar idea popular there, for over a decade, which placed menthol and grease mixture UNDER the hive, have been shown not to have been working nearly as well as thought! As Bob says, TEST. It is amazing how people can use a technique for a decade or more, as with the Hamilton board, then find that someone does a test and finds it does not work or the dose was wrong. One problem with TM, though is that the dead mites and tracheal scarring remain in the bee after treatment until the bees die, and the methods of testing are more technical and labour intensive than varroa surveying, so evaluating success of TM treatments is more difficult than with varroa. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 06:48:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Michael Palmer Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <63D883CB0A1B204EB053673DD882CB53933937@email.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-79A4B85; boundary="=======7E063D84=======" --=======7E063D84======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-79A4B85; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit With all the talk about using menthol, which never really worked that well here in the north...just try to get all your honey off the hives by mid-August...and not have them swarm on the Goldenrod flow... what ever happened to focusing on resistant bees? TM resistance is too easily selected for to rely on menthol...in my opinion. I guess if everyone requeens with southern queens which have never been selected for TM resistance, then menthol is necessary. Same old story...all beekeeping is local, and breed from the best. Mike --=======7E063D84=======-- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:41:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Andrew Dubas Subject: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I may have missed it, but where can I buy these blue shop towels? Regards, Andrew Dubas Du-Bees Apiaries http://www.dubees.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 15:05:05 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040912064230.00b90f40@pop.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Emne: Re: [BEE-L] Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites > > > With all the talk about using menthol, which never really worked that > well here in the north...just try to get all your honey off the hives by > mid-August...and not have them swarm on the Goldenrod flow... If you are using formic acid for Varroa control then you are also fighting the Tracheal mite! Formic acid is of course an aggressive treatment, killing the Varroa because of their thinner skeleton. Opposite to oxalic acid it also kills Varroa in the capped cells. Best regards Jorn Johanesson maybe the best and Only Multilingual software for beekeeping on the net. With integrated update facility. Version 8.0.2.7 now translated into 13 languages with more to come. hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk forum = http://apimo.dk/apimo_forum e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:06:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I may have missed it, but where can I buy these blue shop towels? Wal mart in the automotive dept. or any auto parts store. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:37:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites Comments: To: Jorn_Johanesson@APIMO.DK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jorn said: Formic acid is of course an aggressive treatment, killing the Varroa because of their thinner skeleton. Opposite to oxalic acid it also kills Varroa in the capped cells. There were reports of varroa kills in capped cells when beekeepers were using 85% formic but were also many brood and queen kills which is why beekeepers went to the lower percent. I have attended many formic acid talks over the last few years and have not heard the claim formic acid clears varroa out of capped cells made. I do remember hearing claims of clearing varroa from capped cells on the internet years ago. Most beekeepers now use a 65% formic which I have been told does not kill varroa in capped cells but could be wrong as I do not use formic and am going by what others have said to me. Does 65% formic acid kill varroa in capped cells ? I have been told by Bill R. that if you do not get a certain amount of brood kill the formic dose is not strong enough clear a hive of varroa which is why I doubted the efficacy of the formic acid gel from the start. Efficacy with formic acid is nowhere near the efficacy of chemical strips (98%) research has shown as too many variables exist (temp , humidity & dosage which is hard to figure out ) . Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 02:12:50 +0200 Reply-To: Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites In-Reply-To: <002701c49910$c6135a20$2abc59d8@BusyBeeAcres> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Emne: Re: [BEE-L] Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal > mites > Opposite to oxalic acid it also kills Varroa in > the capped cells. > There were reports of varroa kills in capped cells when beekeepers were > using 85% formic but were also many brood and queen kills which is why > beekeepers went to the lower percent. Yes it can be aggressive in the hive, but it is in my experience related to wrong use (to hot weather = to much formic released) we recommend that the temperature is not higher than 20 degrees Celsius and not less than 15 degrees Celcius. we are using 85% concentration in formic acid pads made from 1cm thick wood fibre plates soced with 250 milli litre. It is then sealed in a plastic bag and when used then cut open with 2x2 cm square slices a frame. pads must be on seven days. The 2x2 cm slice and temperature 15 to 20 deegres celcius allows 7 to 10g a day to be released. 85% formic acid is also used in vaporizers. 60% formic is used as a free acid treatment, dripping 2 ml 60% formic 4 days in a row. > Does 65% formic acid kill varroa in capped cells ? not that I will count on that, I use always 85% formic my self. I have lost a few queens due to formic treatment, but I have always some spare queens around to replace with. > Efficacy with formic acid is nowhere near the efficacy of chemical strips > (98%) research has shown as too many variables exist (temp , humidity & > dosage which is hard to figure out ) . Well It works here. The fact is that we have used it since the Varroa first showed up. Best regards Jorn Johanesson maybe the best and Only Multilingual software for beekeeping on the net. With integrated update facility. Version 8.0.2.7 now translated into 12 languages with more to come. hive note- queen breeding and handheld computer beekeeping software. home page = HTTP://apimo.dk forum = http://apimo.dk/apimo_forum e-mail apimo@apimo.dk :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:42:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Lannie D. Ballard" Subject: Powered Sugar to treat for varroa mites I would like to know if there is any beekeepers that has used powered sugar in there bee hives to control Varroa mites and if any one has used power sugar and garlic power to control Varroa mites. If so did this keep the mite population in check how ofter did you use the treatment. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:17:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Coleene Subject: Re: Powered Sugar to treat for varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lannie, Check with Jerry Hayes in Florida. I believe he has some hives that he needs to keep chemical free and he is using Powdered Sugar to keep the mite in check. Coleene > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:15:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey In-Reply-To: <001601c496af$2987def0$2d78ead8@coleene8roq280> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having a small portable refractometer, I have been measuring and getting figures for the % of water being present in the honey that has been brought into my hot room. Temperature correction has been taken into account to ensure that the reading translated into a valid final figure. BUT, since the refractometer was purchased second hand from a previous beekeeper, I have no evidence that the figures being gained are correct. This being due to the fact that I do not know if the refractometer is correctly set. I need to know if my 18.2% humidity level in my Canola honey is really 18.2%. Is it possible to create a standard medium of known moisture %, one that may be created by the average beekeeper in domestic conditions? Regards, Peter Manitoba, Canada. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:39:51 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Powered Sugar to treat for varroa mites I've used it from time to time. Do an archive search on both "powdered sugar" and "powered sugar" for details. jim (I'm so well-informed about this election that I may just flee to Uruguay.) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:50:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: calibrating refractometer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you have a good quality refractometer you should be able to purchase from the company a small glass block c/w special fluid to calibrate your refractometer. You may find that a research station or the provincial apiarist may let you use theirs, as they are fairly expensive. Peter K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Dillon" Subject: Re: [BEE-L] High Moisture Honey > Having a small portable refractometer, I have been measuring and getting > figures for the % of water being present in the honey that has been > brought into my hot room. > Is it possible to create a standard medium of known moisture %, one that > may be created by the average beekeeper in domestic conditions? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 08:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Use of 65% formic for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said "I have been told by Bill R. that if you do not get a certain amount of brood kill the formic dose is not strong enough clear a hive of varroa which is why I doubted the efficacy of the formic acid gel from the start. Efficacy with formic acid is nowhere near the efficacy of chemical strips (98%) research has shown as too many variables exist (temp , humidity & dosage which is hard to figure out )." I THINK the efficacy may be close to or actually at the 98% level, if used 'properly'. See the web site www.mitwaway.com. This formic acid product has been extensively tested by Medhat Nasr (who helped develop it) and others. I understand that Nick Calderone is among those convinced that it does the job. They have applied for FDA registration, and then will follow will all the states. I understand that FDA registration for next spring is likely. HOWEVER, and this goes directly to Bob's above-quoted statement, the dosage DOES kill virtually all brood and there is a two-week hiatus before egg laying commences. In the fall, this effect on brood is of little consequence. The effects in the spring are another matter. The Canadian beekeepers I know who use it in the spring are convinced that the loss of brood is well worthwhile. They use it in the very early spring, when earnest brood rearing is just beginning and 100% requeen shortly thereafter. They tell me they figure they lose 2 frames of brood, and more than make up for it by having pest-free hives with wall to wall brood from mid-spring onward. One such beekeeper runs 400-450 hives solely on comb honey so he must be doing something right. Even if formic is used only in the fall it will be a welcome alternative to constantly using pesticides! I, for one, am really looking forward to US regristration. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner Ross Rounds, Inc. Manufacturers of Ross Rounds Comb Honey Equipment, Sundance Pollen Traps and Custom Printer of Sundance Labels. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:51:05 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>There were reports of varroa kills in capped cells when beekeepers were using 85% formic but were also many brood and queen kills which is why beekeepers went to the lower percent. Could the queen be removed from the hive for the duration of the treatment? I just treated my hives with sucrocide for the second time and had the impression the bees' 'morale' had improved markedly since the first treatment. Does anyone know if sucrocide kills TM as well as Varroa? Thanks, Waldemar LI, NY :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:05:05 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: High Moisture Honey > This being due to the fact that I do not know if the refractometer is > correctly set. I need to know if my 18.2% humidity level in my Canola > honey is really 18.2%. > Is it possible to create a standard medium of known moisture %, one that > may be created by the average beekeeper in domestic conditions? There's no need to create one - standard fluids exist for the purpose. Here's one source, another may be the maker of your refractometer. http://www.bs-ltd.com/ltd/calibration/calibration_ref.html Or, if you are really cheap, take your refractometer to a honey show, and calibrate it against one of the honey judges. Once calibrated, I paint some red fingernail polish over the adjustment screw to eliminate any possible bumping, and act as a "calibration seal". This worked great with my old Atago, but I have not owned my new one long enough to know if it will stay within calibration for a season. So far, so good... jim (If apes really can communicate with humans, why have none asked why they are being held captive?) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:13:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Use of 65% formic for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd said: Even if formic is used only in the fall it will be a welcome alternative to constantly using pesticides! I, for one, am really looking forward to US regristration. In other words suit up with your eye protection, respirator, special gloves and such and go for it. I guess the rest of us are on the wrong path not wanting to use *any chemicals in our hives*! Half my bees will be left untreated for varroa this year .( my Italians continue to not be able to tolerate varroa) All of Purvis Brothers hives remain untreated for several years. Taken from the B. Weaver ad from pg. 16 of the Sept. Bee Culture mag. " 3 years and 5,000 + booming colonies with no varroa treatment" I have not bought queens from the Weavers in years but were happy with the queens I used to get so am not endorsing their bees but only pointing out the claim they make. I may buy a few Weaver's queens to see if they tolerate varroa. What do others on the list say? Can you leave the Weaver's bees untreated? I do not know as all the beekeepers I talk to which use the Weavers bees blanket treat! Even my partner is amazed I leave bees without treatment. How will we ever find a bee which will survive varroa and can replace the dead feral colonies if we blanket treat all hives? Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:41:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Sucracide and Tracheal Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Does anyone know if sucrocide kills TM as well as Varroa? Tracheal mites are internal (inside the bees' trachea) hence will NOT be killed by sucracide. Sucracide must cover the mite to kill it. It will kill any tracheal mites that are questing during treatment, but the majority of the TM population will not be harmed. Aaron Morris - thinking there's more than one way to skin a mite! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:17:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Bogansky,Ronald J." Subject: 1939 Bradshaw Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Bob and All, I think I can shed some light on this one for you Bob. I have a good friend (Jim) who is the grandson (on his mother's side) of the founder. His mother did not want anything to do with the bee business, so she moved to New Jersey once she became an adult. Here job, while growing up, had been to grade and package comb honey. Jim worked for his grandfather during his summers off from school, and was exposed to all the different aspects of the operation. I arranged for him to speak at our association and relay the history of his family. I have often asked him to write it all down. I think it would make a very interesting article in one of the journals. I will try and give a brief account/history here. Around the turn of the last century, as a youth, Mr. Bradshaw tended a few colonies. He bought his first one around the age of 12 or 13 and carted it to his New Jersey home on his bicycle. He tended these for a few years and upon becoming an adult decided to go to California to seek his fortune. On his way there was a brief stop in Salt Lake City. When he stepped off the train and looked around at the mountains, he decided it was too beautiful a place to leave. He landed a job stringing wire for either the phone or power company. One day he was working on a pole and noticed a beehive in the yard below. He stopped for a while just to watch. The owner came over and they had a conversation that lead to him being invited back for dinner that evening. They hit it off so well that he was offered the opportunity to start an operation in Idaho. A few days later he was on a train going north with a few hundred colonies. This was the beginnings of what was to become one of the largest honey producing operations in the western United States. Eventually it took the name 3 Bears Honey. They were one of the first companies to produce creamed honey using the Dyce Method. They may have even bought the patent on the process, but don't quote me on that. The business flourished for over 50 years. During the 1950s the business was split up among the sons and eventually most was sold to Sioux City who still produces creamed honey and markets it in the West under the 3 Bear name. When Jim tells the story, he relates many personal memories and also some of the firsts in the company's history. He tells of a time when business was much simpler and there was never need for a contract. Business deals were sealed with a handshake. Early on bees were transported by trains and horse drawn wagons. The horses would have to be blindfolded before taking them into the bee yard, "the second time". They also tried to use a live bear for an advertising campaign. Mr. Bradshaw was the first to bring diesel powered trucks to the Rocky Mountains. The companies first two trucks were purchased, at a discount, under the agreement that one of the trucks would be loaded with and would deliver truck parts to the newly opened dealership in the Denver area. He sent one employee to Detroit to pick up the two trucks. While there the employee was to hire another driver to bring the vehicles back. This was during the Depression. He had many applicants and ended up hiring someone and then loading his family, and all their possessions, then moving the entire lot back to Idaho. The man stayed on as a permanent employee for many years. Jim also shows a picture of a highway overpass in western Idaho. This bridge was over the only highway to California, and determined the number of colonies a truck could carry because of clearance. They would load the bees one row higher than the clearance and upon arriving at the overpass they would unload, by hand, the top row and carry them to the other side and then reload for before continuing the trip. One other story relates a time when a truck carrying a load of bees blew a tire in a small eastern Oregon town. This was during WWII and tires were being rationed. Before the garage could sell a new tire the inspector had to approve the sale. Being that it was very late at night the inspector wanted to wait until morning. The driver told the local police chief at the scene that if the sun came up and this truck was not on the move "the town would never be the same". The sheriff escorted the inspector to the garage, and then escorted the truck out of town. The senior Mr. Bradshaw lived and celebrated his 100th birthday. He passed away just a few years ago. Listening to Jim tell the tale of a "family run bee business" in the first half of the 20th century was a great example of the spirit to succeed. Bob, if you wish to contact me off list I will give you Jim's contact information. I am sure he would like to know there is still some of the product still around. Ron Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA + :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:30:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Medhat Nasr, Ph. D." Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Waldemar Said" I just treated my hives with sucrocide for the second time and had the impression the bees' 'morale' had improved markedly since the first treatment" How did you measure the bees' morale? Medhat :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:04:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: allen dick Subject: Re: Use of 65% formic for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I may buy a few Weaver's queens to see if they tolerate varroa. What > do others on the list say? Can you leave the Weaver's bees untreated? I recall, that at Apimondia in Vancouver, Danny was saying in a public address that he had noticed that some of his lines were able to overcome varroa. He said, in particular, that he had a drone colony that was badly infested and had requeened it, then let it go. He had been pleased later to observe that it had recovered nicely with no treatment. That was a few years ago. At the time, such reports were very unusual, and Aaron and I looked at one another and wondered. There are a lot of factors that combine to add up into resistance. Some are environmental, some are related to management, and the balance are in the bees themselves. Bees that exhibit tolerance under some conditions may be overwhelmed in others. Test, test, test. allen A Beekeeper's Diary: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:09:46 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites Medhat asked: > How did you measure the bees' morale? The exact methodology is covered in the Bible. In the "Bee-Additudes", of course. jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:07:02 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?iso-8859-1?B?S29tcHBhLVNlcHDkbOQ=?= Subject: honey from 1939 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob . What would a 65 year old honey from a vacuum > pack be like? As far as I know the answer is not good if the honey has not been kept in a cold storage. Honey turns in storage dark and it developes HMF as the sugars break down from the influence of acids. When HMF goes over 100 mg / kg humans start to taste it as bitter taste. That limit comes in about 7 years in room temperature + 20 C. The reaction is chemical and depends of temperature. In +1 C the same change takes about 150 years ! So it is quite important that if we store honey for any time over 1 year we need to find a cool / cold place. Ari Seppälä Finland :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:59:26 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Mentholated Blue shop towels for tracheal mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My impression was subjective for sure, Medhat, and just a general observation of bess on the frames, increased bee traffic at hive entrances, increased bee population, increased honey stores. I also felt I saw fewer bees with their wings spread out as to being almost orthogonal to their bodies. (Hence, my question about a possible effect of sucrocide on TM if sucrocide was able to enter the bees' trachea. At 1.5 oz per frame, the bees were drenched and I speculated some sucrocide may have gotten into the trachea.) I also saw markedly fewer bees with shriveled wings. One may say that the bees' higher activity might be related to improved forage in the area but these hives have been out in a large goldenrod field which has been abloom since the 1st week in August. Regards, Waldemar LI, NY ========================== Waldemar Said" I just treated my hives with sucrocide for the second time and had the impression the bees' 'morale' had improved markedly since the first treatment" How did you measure the bees' morale? Medhat :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:37:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Lionel Evans Subject: Re: honey from 1939 In-Reply-To: <007a01c49a34$c68999e0$2f24d5d4@pomi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Honey stored in containers at ambient temperatures in America, (some variation in temp from -35degrees F. to +110 degrees F.), does not harm the honey taste. I was working in Rockport, In 1998 and I read an article about an archaeological dig where no one had been in the city for at least 1500 years. 3 urns of honey were found, they liquefied and ate and said it was very good. This, however, was not vacuumed packed. Maybe the key to storing honey is to not vacuum pack. Lionel -- 3Mbps Cable Modem provider (http://pclnet.net) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:22:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Matthew W." Subject: Re: Feeding back Comments: To: OhioBeeFarmer@HOTMAIL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe I'm missing something in your post but isn't your solution simply to give the 'full' honey super(s) directly into your hive(s) anyplace above brood? Perhaps you have something different you're trying to accomplish? If you're trying to transfer frame honey directly into your hives it doesn't make much sense to lose half from energy consumed by bees while robbing. Or is your concern the extra honey is in 'super' form (assuming ~7" vs. deep ~9"?) & you're not sure how to exchange? You could place the supers above the inner cover but I doubt they'll rob them out in a timely fashion considering your rapid climate change in Ohio. Bees consider anything 'in' the hive as 'theirs' and likely won't spend the effort to bring honey down in even 1/10'th the speed they would if left outside the hive. Use the 'super' as a brood box/feed for overwintering. Move the box to the bottom board next spring & back to the top next summer. Or save the supers until Feb/March and throw them above the inner cover for spring feed. Or you could simply place the supers BELOW the hive and the bees would likely consume this honey first this fall/winter. In Ohio (like here in Colorado) you only have a month or two of decent weather for bees to feed without risk of getting 'caught' outside the cluster during a frost - & would plan accordingly with methods used above the inner cover. Regards, Matthew - E-Bees - Castle Rock, CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "OhioBeeFarmer" Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 6:29 AM Subject: [BEE-L] Feeding back > I now have 6 full super full of honey although all the super are capped and just stuffed with >honey I don't want to package this for my customers. I want to feed this back to the bees and >have tried in the past to put excess honey over the inner cover so that the bees would take it :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:39:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: honey from 1939 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lionel said: . I was working in Rockport, In 1998 and I read an article about an archaeological dig where no one had been in the city for at least 1500 years. 3 urns of honey were found, they liquefied and ate and said it was very good. This, however, was not vacuumed packed. Maybe the key to storing honey is to not vacuum pack. Now I am curious as to the honey condition. >From the label on the can: " This hermetically sealed sanitary package insures you that all of the fine qualities of the honey are preserved just as they were when packed" (1939). The seal on the can has not been broken but the can has a bulge at the bottom . I do not know what caused the slight bulge. Thanks to Ron for the information on Bradshaw's honey and contact information. Bob :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:31:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Keith Malone Subject: Selecting better Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris & All, > The interesting thing about the one I tracked for same months was that as the > number of mites increased the proportion of damaged ones increased. So it > may be learning rather than inheritance (this was during the winter period so > the bees were living longer). > If indeed it is a learning experience on the bees part it would perhaps show some degree of intelligence and I think that would be worth propagating by selecting for breeding. You know a Smart Bee. . .. Keith Malone, Chugiak, Alaska USA, http://www.cer.org/, c(((([ , Apiarian, http://takeoff.to/alaskahoney/, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Norlandbeekeepers/ , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ApiarianBreedersGuild/ :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:21:43 -0400 Reply-To: jfischer@supercollider.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Organization: Bedford Advanced Technology Test Lab Effort Subject: A "Bee repellant" NOT RECCOMENDED to clear feral hives >From The AP Newswire WATERLOO, Iowa Sept. 13, 2004 - Firefighters had to be called after a plan to evict a swarm of bees went up in smoke. Residents used gasoline to start a fire in hopes of smoking out a hive of bees from under their home Thursday when the house caught on fire, Battalion Chief Virgil Powell said. "It wasn't a very good plan," Powell said. Only minor damage was reported and no one was injured. Firefighters removed the hive by flushing it out with water, Powell said. Reported by the Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier, Waterloo Iowa jim :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and other info --- ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::