From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:09:15 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-87.0 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CAE49089 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YWp017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0804D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 152471 Lines: 3243 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:41:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Stoops Subject: Re: burning brush near a hive In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aurora's Garden wrote:I've a newly established hive about 40 feet or so from the brush pile, and I'm wondering if the brush fire/smoke would upset the bees? I'd so appreciate some help with this question. Debbie Should not be a problem at all. I would suggest that you run two hives. That way, if you have a problem with one hive you can use the resources of the other to try to correct the problem. Mike in LA (Lower Alabama) --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:43:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Video: The Healing Power of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Video: The Healing Power of Honey CBS 2-TV, 4/14/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/video-healing-power-of-honey.html Honey is effective in treating MRSA-infected wounds. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:04:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Burgess wrote: > And another term is "tanging", the process of > persuading a swarm to come > to ground by e.g. beating a frypan with a ladle! Thanks John, I checked it out. Some interesting history about tanging swarms dating to Ancient Roman times. “…since Ancient times it was believed that a flying swarm could be induced to settle by ‘tanging’-striking two metal objects together to make a loud noise…” (The World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting, Pg 239, Eva Crane, 1999) “This custom of tanging swarms was as universal in the British Isles as in the Roman Empire, and it may be that the custom was introduced into Britain by the Romans, but it is certain that the English were acquainted with it before they came to England.” (The Sacred Bee in Ancient Times and Folklore, Pg. 225, Hilda M. Ransome, 2004 (Rural Recollections: with Other Poems, William Holloway, 1803) “…And the shrill tinklings of the brazen pan, In van of swarming bees….” tang - tanging or tinkling “innilusque cie et Matris quäle cymbala circum” Tinnilusque cie. "Call forth, also, tinklings," i. e., make a tinkling noise with brazen vessels. A tinkling noise is generally, though erroneously, considered to be useful in inducing bees to settle ; it is usually made by drumming smartly upon a frying-pan with a large key ; and the cottagers, according to Bevan, call it tanging or ringing. It was probably practised at first, as Butler says, to proclaim to the neighbours that a swarm was up, serving as a public notification to them from what quarter the swarm proceeded. "This view of the matter is confirmed," says Bevan, " by the opinion prevalent in some districts, that unless the apiarian can prove the tanging, he cannot justly lay claim to the swarm, if it happen to cluster on the premises of a neighbour. The original of this proceeding seems, however, to be lost sight of, and what was founded on reason has been continued from habit ; consequently, the practice is regarded by most of the cottagers as quite necessary to effect a speedy and satisfactory settling of the bees. Most scientific apiarians discountenance it, and I am convinced that it is wholly unnecessary. It is, however, a very ancient practice, older than the days of Aristotle." (The Eclogues and Georgics of Virgil, Pg 401, Charles Anthon, 1847 Tanging was called ‘tinkling’ by the ancient Roman times. In Virgils Book of Georgics, we can date the custom of tanging to 29 B.C.E. Here, a section from the Book of Georgics that describes tinkling swarms. “You marvel at yon dusky cloud that spreads And lengthens on the wind, then mark them well; For then 'tis ever the fresh springs they seek And bowery shelter: hither must you bring The savoury sweets I bid, and sprinkle them, Bruised balsam and the wax-flower's lowly weed, And wake and shake the tinkling cymbals heard By the great Mother: on the anointed spots Themselves will settle, and in wonted wise Seek of themselves the cradle's inmost depth.” (The Georgics, Virgil, 29 B.C.E.) Best Wishes Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:17:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Popularity of Royal Jelly May Increase Allergy Incidents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Popularity of Royal Jelly May Increase Allergy Incidents Case of Anaphylaxis Caused by Ingestion of Royal Jelly The Journal of Dermatology, Volume 35 Issue 4 Page 222-224, April 2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/popularity-of-royal-jelly-may-increase.html Anaphylaxis is a severe form of allergic disease. Royal jelly is widely consumed in Japan, but a few cases of anaphylaxis caused by royal jelly have been reported. We encountered a 26-year-old Japanese woman who developed anaphylaxis after drinking a beverage of crude royal jelly including honey... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:57:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dick Marron Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did a lot of research for an article on "Telling the bees." It was published in Bee Culture a couple of years ago. For those unfortunate enough to have missed it, I've excerpted a couple of paragraphs. I think it fits here. Mail me off-list if you want more of it. >>>>>>>In Greek mythology, at one time Kronos was the chief god. He had been warned that one of his children would slay him. Being no fool, he proceeded in what must be the apex of tough love, to eat his children as they were born. After about the fourth time this happened, his wife, also no fool, chose to do something about it. She took the next child, a male, and hid him in a cave. Titans were left to guard him. Nymphs were there to care for the babe. The bees were there to feed him on honey. Since these stories are based mainly on gossip, they vary a little. Some say the bees morphed into the nymphs. If you'll remember, a nymph is a stage of insect development. Coincidence? I don't think so! When the baby cried, the guards would clash their armor so that old Kronos wouldn't hear him. I can't help but connect this with the custom of later folks banging pots and pans to call the bees. In any case, the plan worked. The child grew up to be Zeus. He put an end to the disgusting eating habits of old Kronos and became the big cheese god himself. The bees found their place in history. Caves in the mountains were thought to be entrances to the underworld. Since bees lived in those caves they got the reputation of being messengers to that world. It didn't hurt their status at all that they had nurtured a god.<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dick Marron **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:13:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: possible lead in chinese honey drums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps Tim's response was too brief. Testing by our CFIA (and I believe the US FDA) of the paint "inside" the drum does not show any lead, however some of the paints used on the exteriors do. Care must be taken when the barrel is filled or opened. Flipping the lid upside down on the empty or filled drum (to insert the gasket for example) can drop exterior paint flecks inside. Debris (including flecks of exterior paint) can be sucked in onto the honey when the barrel is opened if there is no barrier such as a barrel liner or even a piece of plastic under the lid. The FDA have detained and rejected loads entering the US where flecks of lead base paint were found on the top of the honey. Those originating in Canada were not allowed by CFIA to return. In the latest case, it is my understanding that the barrels were manufactured or at least reconditioned in the US. David Tharle Ardmore, AB Canada "Where now there is 2 feet of snow on the ground again." **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:47:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Peter_Dight?= Subject: CCD Waves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Having waited two weeks for any specific details of the allegedly observed 'waves' of CCD spreading through holding yards, I'm starting to wonder if those reports are reliable or not? Peter Cambridge UK **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:24:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: George Fergusson Organization: Sweet Time Apiary Subject: Re: burning brush near a hive In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aurora's Garden wrote: > I've a newly established hive about 40 feet or so from the brush pile, > and I'm wondering if the brush fire/smoke would upset the bees? Burn when the wind is blowing away from the hives. I've burned brush in the general vicinity of my hives and it hasn't bothered the bees at all. Take adequate precautions to prevent the fire from getting out of control, obviously. George- **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:47:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: CCD Waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We saw CCD move through holding yards, from one end to the other, as early as December, 2006. We've been all over the U.S. looking at CCD, have often seen it move through holding yards and apiaries. We've also seen it move from bees brought in from one state to bees in another state - when the introduced bee colonies were set down beside colonies already in the receiving state's beeyard. Again, we first saw this in 2006, and have seen it happen over and over - put CCD colonies in a yard with non-CCD colonies, and you are likely to see many of them collapse. Keep in mind, we DO NOT see every colony in a CCD beeyard collapse, but we see a few, than more, until only a few are left. In some cases, it takes them all out, but more often, it will take out 50-80% of the colonies in an apiary before its run its course. In some cases, the beekeeper has picked up the survivors from several beeyards, placed them all in a common yard. Depending on whether these are 'survivors' or still collapsing, the next visit is likely to show one of two extremes - colonies coming back, or all of them dead. Jerry **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:38:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Edwards Subject: Re: CCD Waves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5425_12179892.1208921925027" ------=_Part_5425_12179892.1208921925027 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Waves - new to me. If you can put standard deadbee traps (Todd?) on spaced colonies in an apiary where you identify this phenomenon, then there would be kill data and bees to work with. I would be interested in seeing such data. - John Edwards, Vancouver, WA, USA On Tue Apr 22 16:47:31 CDT 2008, Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > We saw CCD move through holding yards, from one end to the other, > as early as December, 2006. We've been all over the U.S. > looking at CCD, have often seen it move through holding yards > and apiaries. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ------=_Part_5425_12179892.1208921925027-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:25:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Venom Therapy Used to Treat Infertility MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Bee Venom Therapy Used to Treat Infertility Bee-Sting Therapy, an Alternative Slamet Susanto, The Jakarta Post (Indonesia), 4/23/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/bee-venom-therapy-used-to-treat.html If you've had trouble conceiving for some time, you might want to try apitherapy, otherwise known as bee-sting therapy, in Moyudan, Sleman regency in Yogyakarta... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:37:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: CCD Waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Putting dead bee traps on colonies in CCD yards will not help much - remember, there are few or no dead bees associated with CCD. We've had a counter on an observation hive with CCD and a trap. We recovered very few dead bees. The bees fly out, never to come back. Jerry **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:03:38 +0100 Reply-To: ruaryrudd@iol.ie Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: acetic acid fumigation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glacial acetic acid is liquid at normal room temperature it is so named because when it freezes it has the appearance of ice. Sorry for the delay in relying but I have been away for a fortnight. Ruary -----Original Message----- Glacial acetic acid is 100% concentrated. 60 - 80% is fluid. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:05:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 21/04/2008 16:55:22 GMT Standard Time, bba@DISCOVERYNET.COM writes: While on the Irish list I quickly realized many felt bringing in outside genetics was not a good idea as they felt A.mm was all they needed. We all have got our opinions and rightly so. However when rules tie the hands of people trying to improve bee stock then in my opinion new rules need to be made which allow both sides some leeway. The trouble is that your 'improvement' is not confined to your own hives and drones from your imported stock will cross with your neighbours' queens resulting in some very bad tempered bees. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:55:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: An Etymological Dictionarie of Historic Beekeeping Terms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 In a message dated 22/04/2008 13:19:39 GMT Standard Time, =20 naturebee@YAHOO.COM writes: since Ancient times it was believed that a flying swarm could be induced=20 to settle by =E2=80=98tanging=E2=80=99-striking two metal objects together=20= to make a loud =20 noise=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D Not only in ancient times. In 1992 the Head Gardener of a country mansion =20 not far from me telephoned to say that a swarm had issued from the chimneys=20= =20 (which the recently deceased John Atkinson knew to be inhabited by bees in t= he =20 1940s) and that he had "banged on a bit of galvanise [zinc coated corrugated= =20 iron] and managed to bring them down in the small courtyard." Which was =20 whence I collected them. =20 Chris =20 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:43:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John Edwards Subject: Re: CCD Waves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_15_1149197.1209008617115" ------=_Part_15_1149197.1209008617115 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ((Well, I "thought" I just sent you a message, but I guess it kicked me out - I'll try to duplicate it....)) That's strange - the bees have to go somewhere - sounds like the symptoms we used to hear for sacbrood, Nosema, or some such. If a colony is losing bees, some percentage of those exiting bees have to have some anomaly (ruling out kingfisher birds, of course). How about pollination cages to trap'em all when the weather warms up? Thanks for the reply. - John On Wed Apr 23 10:37:35 CDT 2008, Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: > Putting dead bee traps on colonies in CCD yards will not help > much - remember, there are few or no dead bees associated with > CCD. We've had a counter on an observation hive with CCD and a > trap. We recovered very few dead bees. The bees fly out, never > to come back. Jerry **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ------=_Part_15_1149197.1209008617115-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: The Australian Birds and Bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The trouble is that your 'improvement' is not confined to your own hives and > drones from your imported stock will cross with your neighbours' queens > resulting in some very bad tempered bees. I think the same could be said for trying to breed a better bee. other beekeepers stock hinders your breeding program. For my purposes I never cared for Amm but I think some should be kept for old times sake. Every hive of A.mm I ever kept had traits I did not care for. The first bees I owned were A.mm. Always trying to sting. 48 years ago when I started there were plenty of A.mm bees around. Not now. No talk of an A.mm import. In America what we call Hereford cattle is a far cry from the tiny cattle kept pure across the pond. We still have got a few ranchers which keep what the U.S. calls pure registered Herefords but with current registration standards they are hardly pure. The standard allows for a unregistered bull brought in and then the offspring bred back to registered stock until able to be registered pure again. its called the one eighth rule. Still after all these years Herefords are still susceptible to "Pink Eye". In my opinion always will be. Herefords & Angus used to be small cattle ( when I was a kid) but now are huge (thanks to the way cattle are roistered). Not unusual to see a 2500 lb. angus bull these days. Breeding within a pure race of bee or cattle has its limits. Many commercial beekeepers like a carniolan/Italian cross. I can't even say the number of these I have tried over the years. I stick with the Italian bee. Carniolans differ from year to year and queen producer to queen producer. Last years NWC were very poor. Reason unknown. Supercedure was the highest any of us had seen. The Italian bees from the same queen producer were great like they always are. Having been through most colonies by now its hard to find a last years marked NWC queen. The marked Italian queens are about 90% still in the hives. Supercedure costs me money in lost production. The reason I mark queens and at times buy marked queens. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:51:59 +0100 Reply-To: ruaryrudd@iol.ie Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Bees not Taking Syrup in Spring- question for M. Palmer In-Reply-To: <003101c89c2c$e37d8f90$8ce84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One microscope will not cover all the things you have mentioned. A Dissecting ( preferably stereo) microscope is needed for Acarine ( it can be done using a X10 hand lens on stand but it is awkward. The magnification wanted is X10 or X20. For nosema a compound microscope with a minimum of X200 is required but X400 is preferable, For AFB spores you need X1000 for Pollen identification the usual magnification is X400 Ruary -----Original Message----- Behalf Of John & Christy Horton I am now shopping for one for use in Nosema ,Tracheal etc and whatever other little beaasts arer out there. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:27:44 +0100 Reply-To: ruaryrudd@iol.ie Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: tracheal revisited In-Reply-To: <040c01c89d3e$7cc29800$0200a8c0@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The trouble with measuring is that there is an overlap in the lengths between N apis and N ceranea Ruary -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Peter Edwards Were you able to measure the spores? Peter Edwards **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:23:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Propolis Protects Cells From Radiation Damage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Propolis Protects Cells From Radiation Damage Radioprotective Effects of Propolis and Quercetin in Gamma-Irradiated Mice Evaluated by the Alkaline Comet Assay Phytomedicine, 2008 Apr 16 [Epub ahead of print] http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/propolis-protects-cells-from-radiation.html The radioprotective effects of ethanolic extract of propolis (EEP) and quercetin on the white blood cells of the whole-body irradiated CBA mice were investigated. Irradiation was performed using a gamma-ray source ((60)Co), and absorbed dose was 9Gy... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:56:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Nosema dimensions (wasRE: [BEE-L] tracheal revisited) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruary Do you have any data on the variability in dimensions of the two nosema spores? At a recent talk I attended, Mike Brown of the UK National Bee Unit quoted the following dimensions for the major and minor directions (but no variabilities): Nosema Apis 5.55 microns by 3.05 microns Nosema ceranae 5.14 microns by 2.68 microns regards Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK > FromOn Behalf Of Ruary Rudd > The trouble with measuring is that there is an overlap in the lengths > between N apis and N ceranea **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:31:05 +0100 Reply-To: ruaryrudd@iol.ie Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Nosema dimensions (wasRE: [BEE-L] tracheal revisited) In-Reply-To: <200804241256.HXE33627@C2bthomr05.btconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only information I have is from Natural infections of Nosema ceranae in European honey bees Fries et al Journal of Apicultural Research 45(3): 230-233 (2006) Quote Although the differences in spore size between N. ceranae and N. apis are not immediately apparent in light microscopy, there is a consistent size difference between the spores of the two species, with N. ceranae being slightly smaller compared to N. apis (Fries et al., 1996). The length of unfixed spores of N. ceranae isolated from A. cerana measure 4.7?0.46 ?m, range 3.3 - 5.5 ?m, n=25.The width of the spores measure 2.7?0.25 ?m, range 2.3 - 3.0 ?m n=25 (Fries et al., 1996). Although there is a slight overlap, with the smallest N. apis spores being smaller than the largest N. ceranae spores, the average spore size of N. apis is approximately 1 ?m larger in length . The spores of N. ceranae sometimes appear slightly bent which gives a less consistent appearance compared to N. apis . Unquote Ruary -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Mike Rowbottom Do you have any data on the variability in dimensions of the two nosema spores? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:46:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD Waves In-Reply-To: <17198255.1209008617132.JavaMail.root@web02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello John & All, I do not want to get in between John & Jerry's discussion but I believe I can answer John's question to a degree. > That's strange - the bees have to go somewhere - The bees are found in the field. Dead bees are found and most seem to have problems . Samples deteriate quickly so accurate information is hard to come by. The problem starts with adult bees. The bees fly out to die from whatever is wrong with the bees . Fly out to do what bees do. One hypothesis is due to a midgut problem simply run out of fuel and can't make it back. Unknown is why the bees leave the hive to die. One hypothesis (which I do not agree with) is the bees leave at once. Most beeks believe the leaving of the hive happens over a short period (usually less than two weeks.) sounds like the > symptoms we used to hear for sacbrood, Nosema, or some such. Sacbrood you can rule out as fairly rare but easily detected. Nosema ceranae produces symptoms EXACTLY like the CCD documents. I think its fair to say some documented CCD cases were caused by high levels of nosema ceranae. In fact some migratory beekeepers are telling their growers that last years bee problems were from nosema ceranae and the problem has been solved this year by the feeding of X amount of antibiotics. Which seems to be true in certain cases. If a > colony is losing bees, some percentage of those exiting bees have > to have some anomaly They do! Nosema ceranae and KBV to name the two main issues. The problem is in deciding which of the several problems found was the main factor which killed the bees. Many problems were found in the CCD hives. The reason my advice has always been to eliminate (as beekeepers) each issue until you are left with simply one or two possibilities. Control of varroa goes a long way towards control of virus as research in the U.K. by Norman Carrick and Brenda Ball has shown. Control of nosema is needed with nosema ceranae ( personal experience and research done in Spain). Clean comb from mitacide contamination and pesticide contamination will improve the beekeepers situation with contaminated comb. STILL: Most beekeepers running larger numbers of bees doing all of the above are seeing a higher number of bees crashing than what has always been considered as normal. Some hives completely empty of bees and in some cases brood with a small bunch of bees and a queen. Nutrition has been a important issue with commercial beeks. Which has led to the large scale feeding of *supposedly* irradiated *correctly* bee feed pollen from China. 600 50 lb. boxes to a container and in many cases a 4-6 week waiting period on delivery. Many beeks jumped on board. So much the Weslaco Bee Lab looked into the nutricinal value of such pollen ( ABJ spring 2007 article by Bob Harrison) and found the food value was very low. Also found that bees feed HFCS lived half as long as bees feed sucrose. ( same ABJ article). Aphis has indicated that the import of some virus issues could have came in with the Aphis unapproved China bee feed pollen and has forced a recall. To support their position the irradiated boxes of David hackenberg did better than those not irradiated but those bees in even the irradiated boxes had problems. reason unknown but the irradiated boxes did not all eliminate problems. David Hackenberg when he approached me about getting some of my boxes irradiated ( AQBF convention Austin) was convinced the process would solve his CCD box problems. The only unknown area was would the method remove any pesticide problems in the boxes. Could the China bee feed pollen be contaminated with pesticides? Did anyone check? Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:54:25 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD Waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said: > Unknown is why the bees leave the hive to die. "Leaving the hive to die" is actually fairly common, and is considered a very basic and important part of the "colony immune system", not to be confused with the immune system of a bee. The difference with CCD is only: a) The quick spread of the disease pathogen within the hive b) The lack of symptoms among the remaining bees c) The virulence of the pathogen, proven by the apparently healthy hive with a large brood area degrading to a "depopulated" hive with little more than the brood area left. d) The lack of clear evidence (so far) as to the specific agents at work. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:06:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: N. Ceranae - Heat Treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Posted in Kim Flottums Newsletter Catch the Buzz From Bee Alert Technology, Inc., Missoula, MT FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Heating Kills Honey Bee Pathogen Bozeman, Montana-April 24 , 2008 – Researchers at Montana State University have d iscovered a possible treatment to sterilize beekeeping equipment exposed to Nosema ceranae, according to Dr. Robert Cramer, an expert in fungal pathogenesis. Using a technique called flow cytometry to measure the viability of the fungal spores of N. ceranae, Julie Elser in the Cramer Lab discovered that treatment of the spores with heat at 50°C (122°F) for 90 minutes led to 96% mortality of the spores. Similar treatment of the spores with extreme cold did not significantly affect viability. While these results are preliminary, the ease, cost, and safety of heat treatment suggests that beekeeping equipment could be disinfected at temperatures that will not melt the wax in the combs. Randy Oliver, a California beekeeper, who has been writing about Nosema and coordinating with the researchers, comments: "This is an important confirmation of a potential practical method for comb sterilization, that could be of immense benefit to the industry. It confirms a body of research on the previously known Nosema apis which suggested that N. apis spores were susceptible to heat treatments. The demonstrated heat sensitivity helps to explain the newer Nosema ceranae epidemiology. But until the actual Cramer trial, we did not know if the Nosema apis sterilization data was applicable." Many beekeepers have hot rooms that could be used to clean up comb, says Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk, CEO of Bee Alert Technology, Inc. in Missoula, MT. At this time of the year, beekeepers who have lost bee colonies to Nosema disease may be reluctant to put new bees on to old combs, fearing re-infection. A 2-3 hour exposure of bee equipment to temperatures around 120°F may be warranted. Bee Alert is working with the Cramer lab, Randy Oliver, and other beekeepers to set up field trials of the effectiveness of heat treatment. Funding for the Nosema research was provided by the California State Beekeepers Association and the Montana Agricultural Research Experiment Station. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:09:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD Waves Comments: To: bee-quick@BEE-QUICK.COM In-Reply-To: <000201c8a634$3d699920$0201000a@j> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello James & All, James makes some excellent points which I will take a little farther. > a) The quick spread of the disease pathogen within the hive In the case of nosema ceranae the spread can be very fast. Some beeks are fighting high nosema ceranae levels every three months. It * seems* ( not yet known) that fumidil per label is only knocking levels back unlike with nosema apis when per label provided a easy control. Dr. Eric Mussen is looking into further. > b) The lack of symptoms among the remaining bees I have always had a problem with the above as troubles were found and documented in all bees in CCD colonies. In research I have read I would have to conclude that the bees which are considered healthy had plenty wrong which means in my opinion those bees were sick also but not showing symptoms. For some unknown reason some CCD hives can turn around but not often ( my observations) and I recommend killing off the small queen and clusters left. In fact a friend Brian McDonald just returned from making nucs in Texas and he said commercial beekeepers were shaking all dink hives into big screened boxes to be eliminated. Spreading those bees among your other bees or giving brood to dinks is not what those beeks recommend doing. They tried three years ago but found only increased the problem. Not sure what they did with the brood left. Also taking all your dinks and making into nucs ( fairly common practice) is not recommended by those beeks. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:11:32 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Richard Rogers Subject: Recent Nosema papers FYI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Recently accepted manuscript is now searchable on ScienceDirect.com Williams, G.R., Sampson, M.A., Shutler, D., Rogers, R.E.L., Does fumagillin control the recently-detected invasive parasite Nosema ceranae in western honey bees (Apis mellifera)?, Journal of Invertebrate Pathology (2008), doi: 10.1016/j.jip.2008.04.005 A search on title keyword "nosema" and author "williams" should also return the previously published paper: First detection of Nosema ceranae, a microsporidian parasite of European honey bees (Apis mellifera), in Canada and central USA. Journal of Invertebrate Pathology, Volume 97, Issue 2, February 2008, Pages 189-192. Geoffrey R. Williams, Aaron B.A. Shafer, Richard E.L. Rogers, Dave Shutler, Donald T. Stewart -- R.E.L. (Dick) Rogers, MSc, PAg Wildwood Labs Inc "For nature and technology in balance" **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:55:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Do we need a new name for the Israeli Virus? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Published online 23 April 2008 | Nature | doi:10.1038/452923a Politically correct names given to flu viruses Names of flu viruses appearing in the scientific literature have undergone something of a mutation this year. The group of H5N1 avian flu viruses, once known as 'Fujian-like', has morphed into 'Clade 2.3.4'. And its 'Qinghai-like' cousin is now called 'Clade 2.2'. They are part of a complete revision of H5N1 nomenclature recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO). The system is now more politically correct. It avoids the "stigmatizing labelling of clades by geographical reference", according to the WHO. In 2006, when scientists assigned the name 'Fujian-like virus' to a vaccine-resistant strain of H5N1 that spread across Asia, China objected strongly to the name. Government officials argued that the southeastern Chinese province of Fujian was tainted by association as the virus spread. But a WHO official told Nature that discussions for a revised nomenclature were underway before the spat, and that the "impetus was scientific". "We recognized that naming based on geography was probably not a good idea for other reasons," she says. "I find the geographical naming system rather confusing and unspecific; this more precise numbering system is far more rigorous," says Edward Holmes, a flu genomicist at Pennsylvania State University in University Park. The new system does not affect the naming of individual H5N1 virus sequences — held in the GenBank database — that make up such clades. These will continue to display geographic and species data on the sample. Geographic information is relevant, says the WHO official, because it locates the sample's place of origin. -- Peter L Borst Danby, NY USA 42.35, -76.50 http://picasaweb.google.com/peterlborst **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:52:55 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Gavin Ramsay Subject: Re: CCD Waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Bob > For some unknown reason some CCD hives can turn around but > not often (my observations) and I recommend killing off the > small queen and clusters left. Bob, these colonies have likely survived a huge challenge as whatever-it-is swept through the yard. Isn't the best explanation that they have the genetics to tolerate the pathogen? Isn't it likely that if you build up again from these colonies then next time your losses would be a lot smaller? all the best Gavin **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD Waves In-Reply-To: <907142.62474.qm@web86211.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gavin & All, > Bob, these colonies have likely survived a huge challenge as > whatever-it-is swept through the yard. Isn't the best explanation that > they have the genetics to tolerate the pathogen? Hard to say exactly why these hives are not dead. Perhaps a queen breeder might try to breed form those dinks but commercial beeks look at things different. Breeding from survivors is an expensive proposition for the person which makes a living from bees. We placed two truck loads of bees in apples tonight. We figure out what the problem is an treat. Let others breed from survivors. I seriously doubt a bee which can tolerate nosema ceranae is around the corner. Even if the USDA_ARS claimed they had a bee which did not need treatment I would only risk a 100 hives at first. Been burned too many times by claims. You are right of course for researchers but keeping dinks and sick bees around does not work for most of us. I am curious what Dee is going to do when her hives start crashing from n. ceranae. Or has it already started. Will her small cell protect her bees? > Isn't it likely that if you build up again from these colonies then next > time your losses would be a lot smaller? Packages delivered to the Midwest are now around $75 and queens even in the amounts we order are $15 and up. I am a businessman and am not interested in management of losses. I had 6% winter loss. Looks like a decent year in the bees this year. Keeping a dink hive around when I can make splits from healthy hives does not make sense to me. I have got two yards which are doing poorly. The bees were strong enough to take brood but I left alone. When things slow down I am going to try to figure out what's wrong. Management of N. ceranae and switching to sucrose has improved my operation and also my partner Bell Hill Honey. Bell Hill bees went to California strong. Made great splits over the last two weeks and went into apples strong. I do feel for beeks which are having problems. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:33:02 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everyone, Well, now that we are back (and a little settled), I'll tell you what's been going on. Ramona and I, after returning home from the organic conference in Arizona, turned around, went back, spent about 2 weeks working (and filming) with Dee Lusby...and in the middle of it all, got married. The first of the videos are now on our homepage (if you were ever curious what small cell/unlimited broodnest/treatment free beekeeping looks like): http://www.BeeUntoOthers.com/ ...more to come, but these first two didn't require editing. Please note that hardly any smoke was used, and these hives are huge. I'd be curious to see some footage of similar sized hives (5-6 deep). There are lots of bees flying...but there are simply lots of bees (and again, almost no smoke). Enjoy, deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:34:18 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Wedding Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not since Richard Taylor put a classified ad in Bee Culture seeking a wife has there been wedding so long-awaited by so many. Kim Flottum and Kathy Summers, both of Bee Culture magazine, will be married on April 26 in Medina Ohio. In lieu of gifts, they suggest donations to the Medina Community Church in Medina Ohio, or to the Medina County Beekeepers Library Observation Beehive Fund. Cards can be sent to: Kim Flottum & Kathy Summers AI Root Company 623 West Liberty St. Medina OH 44256 In the event I am not bribed sufficiently to not do so, photos will be put up online next week. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:23:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Malaysian Researchers Study Medicinal Benefits of Bee Venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Malaysian Researchers Study Medicinal Benefits of Bee Venom http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/malaysian-researchers-study-medicinal.html Anti-Inflammatory Effect of Malaysian Bee Venom [The following presentations were offered at the 6th German Apitherapy and Apipuncture Congress held in Passau from March 27th to April 1st.] Abstract: The present study was designed to test the hypothesis that Malaysian bee venom (MBV) can serve as a potent anti-inflammatory agent in a localized inflammatory state... Discovery of Malaysian Bee Venom Bioactive Components: A Proteomic Approach Abstract: Recent studies have shown that the Malaysian bee venom (MBV) possess anti-inflammatory effect. However, the active substances within MBV that exert the physiological effect are still unknown... Proteomic Analysis of Differentially Expressed Proteins in Sera of Carrageenan Induced Rats Treated with Malaysian Bee Venom Abstract: Proteomic analysis offers the sensitivity and reliability in attempts to understand the mechanism of the anti-inflammatory action of the Malaysian bee venom (MBV) in a complex cellular system... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:45:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am looking at the video now, and that is not a strong colony. No way it contains 120,000 bees. And they are really pissed off. I doubt you could be there without all that protective clothing they're wearing. I usually work bees wearing street clothes and if they ever got that pissed off, I'd be taking a sample to see if they were AHB pb **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:55:14 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit peter, of the 2 videos i posted, there are in excess of 20 colonies being shown. i didn't edit anything after the fact, so this doesn't just show "the strong ones". what colony are you referring to (which video, and at what time)? it also must be noted that smoke is hardly being used at all (in order to keep the nurse bees on the brood frames for splits). do you have a film we could see of you going into that many hives, that many deep, and no smoke so we can see "what it's supposed to look like"? also, my recollection is that africanized bees are supposed to maintain small colonies...are these small colonies? (and if so, can you please provide a picture of a large colony to compare it with)? "all that protective clothing" consists of an inspectors jacket, painters pants from wallmart, dollar store dishwashing gloves, and some velcro spats. we are also used to working our bees in street clothes (wearing a veil, jeans and a tshirt)...but the numbers of bees when the colonies are 5-6 deep is a different story. deknow -- Peter Borst wrote: I'd be taking a sample to see if they were AHB **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:26:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Re: CCD Waves-question for Bob H MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: > might try to breed form those dinks but commercial beeks look at things > different. Breeding from survivors is an expensive proposition for the > person which makes a living from bees. Bob, Are there hives in the yards that are still strong and healthy after the "waves" pass through? Thanks John Horton **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:04:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: CCD Waves- question for Bob H MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob wrote: To support their position the irradiated boxes of David hackenberg did better than those not irradiated but those bees in even the irradiated boxes had problems. reason unknown but the irradiated boxes did not all eliminate problems. Bob, I have seen many subjective comments like the one above but have found it more difficult to find out hard info. Questions like: -How many survived in the treated group non-treated. -Average hive strength for treated vs non-treated. remain in my mind. These are simple basic questions that to me seem to be readily answerable. Since the study was done on the original CCD colonies I am perplexed why I have not seen hard data. If this hard data has been published and I have overlooked it, I would appreciate you pointing it out so I can have a look. Thanks John Horton **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:20:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Russ Dean Subject: other Wedding Annoucment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations To Kim Flottum and Kathy Summers, on their up coming wedding. I pray that you'll have a long happy marriage. I to a beekeeper in West Virginia and the webmaster for the WV State Beekeepers Association am due to wed an incredible woman from Scotland. I am truly blessed to having looking for a pen pal and ending up with a Christian woman for a wife. We do have gift registries at Sears, Walmart, Kmart and even Lowes. But we would enjoy and treasure cards even more for they'd come from you heart also. Russ Dean & Angela McCall Route 1, Box 3 Advent, WV 25231 Angela is at her home now but the cards can get to her at this address also. I hope to visit her family, soon to be my family too next month in beautiful Dumfries, Scotland in the UK. My God richly bless us all. Russ Dean **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:10:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Peter_Borst?= Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit deknow@NETZERO.NET and all: I regret stirring up this bees' nest, and will avoid further public comments. I can be reached at: peterlborst@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:40:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: H. Depot Canada Phases Out Pesticides Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/April2008/22/c8079.html TORONTO, April 22 /CNW/ - The Home Depot(R) today announced that it will voluntarily stop selling traditional pesticides and herbicides in its stores across Canada by the end of 2008 and will increase its selection of environmentally friendly alternatives. The Home Depot is the first home improvement retailer to stop selling pesticides voluntarily across Canada and will phase out the products long before legislated deadlines. The Home Depot stores in Quebec do not sell pesticides. In addition, there are currently over 55 municipalities in Canada where the residential use, but not sale, of pesticides is banned. As the leader in the Canadian home improvement industry, The Home Depot will not sell any traditional pesticides and currently offers over 50 natural alternatives for its customers. "Like our customers, we, at The Home Depot, are concerned about the environment," said Annette Verschuren, president of The Home Depot Canada and Asia. "We are going above and beyond government regulations by working with our suppliers to develop pesticide alternatives that are environmentally friendly and produce excellent results on lawns and gardens." Pesticides will be phased out of The Home Depot stores across Canada starting today. By June 2008, The Home Depot anticipates that 62 of its stores nationwide will no longer sell pesticides, with all 166 stores offering additional environmentally preferred replacement products by the end of 2008. "Our stores will prominently feature green pesticide alternatives, in addition to our current Eco Options products, and our trained associates will continue to provide customers with product information and tips, as well as on-line support," added Verschuren. Product categories currently affected by The Home Depot's voluntary phase-out include herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, slug baits, moss control products and lawn fertilizers with weed control. A total of 60 products will be affected. As the environmental leader in the home improvement retail sector, The Home Depot Canada has developed a number of environmental initiatives to date. For the past eight years, the company has held its Mow Down Pollution lawnmower trade-in event to help consumers reduce smog emissions when trimming their lawns. The Home Depot Canada also offers more than 1,500 Eco Options products, including all-natural insect repellents, organic plant food and vegetables in biodegradable pots. The wide array of Eco Options also includes compact fluorescent light (CFL) bulbs, programmable thermostats, cellulose insulation, front-load washing machines, and certified wood. The company also offers the only national recycling program for CFL bulbs. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:21:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:55:14 GMT, deknow@netzero.net wrote: >it also must be noted that smoke is hardly being used at all (in order to keep the nurse bees on the brood frames for splits). It did not appear that many bees at all were staying on the comb. They were either on the run or in the air. All beekeeping is local but up here my bees stay on the comb in gobs sometimes hanging off the edge as frames are removed from the brood nest and a layer of bees stay on the top bars in a large colony.....like I have to shake bees off to see any larva or eggs. what do you see at your home apiary? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:50:26 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Were these videos in the middle of an intensive flow? [I did not catch much capped honey in the upper frames.] My strongest hives will get to be the equivalent 5-deep high at the end of our spring/summer honey flow in early July and will have stored upwards of 150 lbs of honey. The entire stack will be solid with bees from top to bottom. This certainly is not the case in the fall or coming out of the winter. What is the nectar flow period by Dee in Arizona? I believe the entire Southwest has been going through a drought. Is that still the case? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:25:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Edwards Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > And they are really pissed off. I doubt you could be > there without all that protective clothing they're wearing. With handling as rough as that I am not surprised! Is this normal in the US? Best wishes Peter Edwards beekeepers at stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:08:20 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reading Kim's "Catch the Buzz" re the AIA survey, I looked at the = following two statements:- 1. The second strain is more frequent in sampled colonies from the = western U.S.. This strain matches more closely to several isolates = sequenced to date from Australian package bees. 2. Extensive variation in the genetic sequence of the virus suggests = that the virus is rapidly changing in the U.S. or has been present as = multiple lineages for some time. When the debate on the IAPV coming from Australia first raised its head, = I wondered where Australia would have got the IAPV. The most logical = place was the USA as we imported a lot of stock from the USA prior to = the quarantine station going in place around 1983. So if the virus is rapidly changing, couldn't it have been the case that = Australia got the IAPV from stock imported from the western USA prior to = 1983, the virus has changed since then and what came back to the USA in = bees is a mutated version of what came out in the first place? The = statement says the Australian and western USA isolates are a close = matches. Food for thought. Not wanting to lay blame but just interested in where = IAPV came from in Australia. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:46:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Steve_Noble?= Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "With handling as rough as that I am not surprised! Is this normal in the US?" As if there were some peculiarly American way of handling bees? Come on! Steve Noble **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:56:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- "waldig@netzero.net" wrote: Were these videos in the middle of an intensive flow? >>no, there were some wildflowers, and a bunch of very small desert flowers, but the first main flow (prickly pair, achateia(sp)) had not yet hit. My strongest hives will get to be the equivalent 5-deep high at the end of our spring/summer honey flow...This certainly is not the case in the fall or coming out of the winter. >>yes, this is coming out of winter. we saw some of these hives a month previous (from the outside only...just righting tipped hives), and it was like a whole different world. Dee leaves everything in the 3 bottom boxes (deeps) for the bees...and some hives had brood in 4+ boxes _before_ the flow. What is the nectar flow period by Dee in Arizona? I believe the entire Southwest has been going through a drought. Is that still the case? >>what we saw looked good, and yes, there has been a long drought. the most exciting part was visiting official CCD yards, and making strong splits to make up the losses. dee can speak better as to what she is experiencing, but it looked like a promising season to my untrained eye. >>a couple of other observations about the aggressiveness of the bees in these videos. we were going through about 100 hives a day, reeked of alarm scent, for the north kings video i was in front of the hive entrances the whole time...and the bees simply do not like the video camera. >>we've got less than 20 hives ourselves, neither one of us will climb 10' up a ladder, we are relative amatures, and even chicken. this didn't feel out of control to us. we went through about 500 hives in 7 working days, and made up about 100 splits. dee has everything rigged so that aside from lifting deeps that are not full of honey, nothing heavier than a frame of honey ever need be lifted. the truck loads/unloads with walter t. kelly handtrucks and a liftgate (special video just on that coming), etc. everything is extremely well thought out _and_ simple. >>deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:45:25 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... In-Reply-To: <20080425.155026.19407.1@webmail05.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Waldemar: > Were these videos in the middle of an intensive flow? [I > did not catch much capped honey in the upper frames.] Reply: No, not in middle of intensive flow. In fact it is first workup for coming year and Ocatilla and pricklypear have not bloomed yet. Bloom started in middle February with mustard, fillery,verbina, poppie, aka various groundcovers only. So taking best of upper 1/3 for divides/splits by ripping apart and moving on when I can see first two full boxes or more of brood already layed in. Many of these were already putting honey in drawn combs in 4th and 5th in pyrimad setup. Getting ready to pop, and so using the upper best for more bees after so long a drough out here in western states. But still no cactus blooming which is normal preflow buildup for going into main flow of acacia (mesquite/catsclaw), so taking normal advantage of it. Just a normal workup with second to follow 21 days later for evening out brood for weakest then for more frames for then doing cricitcal mass cycle counting for main flow coming in another month. continuing: > My strongest hives will get to be the equivalent 5-deep > high at the end of our spring/summer honey flow in early > July and will have stored upwards of 150 lbs of honey. The > entire stack will be solid with bees from top to bottom. > This certainly is not the case in the fall or coming out of > the winter. > Reply: Right.....this is first workup coming out of our winter months and now getting ready for active beekeeping year. Figure on decent years have to be done with first workup NLT 1-15 April for all yards, then second pass by middle May and then you let them roll........and go for the main flow that then ends sometime in July, only to re-start then late Aug/early Sep for fall..... continuing: > What is the nectar flow period by Dee in Arizona? I > believe the entire Southwest has been going through a > drought. Is that still the case? Reply: pretty much so. At least still not officially declared over. and mostrains so far this year,have missed south of Tucson, Arizona where I keep bees, having fallen north of Tucson up towards Phoenix area instead... But the main flow active period is you start end of Feb/beg Mar, workup Apri to mid May, Main flow end May till over in July, then summer lull and summer rains come, then fall flow Sep thru middle Nov....... So I technically at beginning of decent pre=buildup now with prickly pear and Palo Verde, greasewood now hitting, that then goes into main flow in another few weeks. So now is time to take the strongest, and balance back to weaker, take up equipment if any and get ready to roll. Just normal workups in two average runs that takes about 7 days to go thru 600 plus colonies on a fast working for speed, due to price of gasoline and other. Nothing hard, with me and Ramona here doing/working, with Dean filming. Also, setting up for more splits/divides following main flow, to get numbers back from last Aug/Sep setback in Central Colo Mtns of Arivaca/Moyza Arizona. But going for honey first. D- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:01:53 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian: > It did not appear that many bees at all were staying on the > comb. They were either on the run or in > the air. All beekeeping is local but up here my bees stay > on the comb in gobs sometimes hanging off > the edge as frames are removed from the brood nest and a > layer of bees stay on the top bars in a > large colony.....like I have to shake bees off to see any > larva or eggs. Reply: In the hives ripped apart and boxes carried several yards to new location they were full of bees and simply set down in new location. That way field force quickly goes home and nurse bees start sorting out new location. For what was in air, actually many times that was still in hives (nurse bees) with field bees then leaving to get home and or see what was happening. For the most part I am not trying to remove frames from hives, with bees hanging. I am simply taking whole super and any bees falling while walking out bottom, simply have to find own way home, or to new home of which most all do. Also boxes of bees/brood/stores carried to new home are set on one deep box comb, then new box bees, brood, stores, then another deep box comb, and then one more box, with new foundation and some drawn combs in center, to start pyrimading up for usage later on. This is old way of splitting I was taught back in 50s/60s in New York state by the way for unlimited broodnest setups for production colonies. You want to see how strong they are, come on out and see, as this is first spring workup run, that is also using upper best of upper 1/3 for new hive making. Then second pass thru starting in 21 days for equilization run for final workup going into flow just prior to main flow. got until end of May to be completely ready. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:19:15 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... In-Reply-To: <009601c8a71a$ef9c3800$0200a8c0@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Peter Edwards: > With handling as rough as that I am not surprised! Is this > normal in the US? Reply: Well, with half bee suit, rubber dishwashing gloves and leg wraps only, didn't consider them pissed off, as they weren't stinging. They were just flying around, and trying to reorient to new locations and old locations at same time, while flying around forage in area of location. At least the field bees were doing this, as someone stole a whole box of their brood and hopefully queen away, though just ripped off and didn't really care if she there or not in strong hives torn apart. But if pissed off instead of disorientated, would have supposed that we'd have been covered from head to foot with stinging bees of which we were not. though many came to veils due to breathing so close to boxes when opening hives. But if pissed should have been more, but didn't happen. But yet, there should have been more to me if pissed, for to me pissed means wanting to sting, and these bees were not doing that! We were not getting stung, it just put a lot of field bees in air. But if you look our legs and arms and bodies were not covered with killing bees, nor stinging bees.....Just plenty of field bees in air that are returning home and disorientated, for their homes had been ripped apart and moved sorta!!! Nothing hard. Also something that is done, to me, commercially, in remote locations away from cities, towns and municipalities in western states more then many think........as have visited too many in past to know the difference. Could say same for many bees in air for doing shakedowns for packages at times I have seen in past done, or mass feeding of large outyards with ditches in countrysides too, or setting boxes down with honey in open to have field bees go home and then at dark take and load, after day time flights is stopeed and over for day. D- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:48:51 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Bees, bees, and more bees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Since it has been mentioned.........question: Since it has been said, many pictures of CCD bees show beekeepers covered from head to foot with bees on their bodies........yet two videos just posted with my bees showed many flying in the air, but not on my body nor worker's with me.......... Now just what is the difference other then one group is attached (CCD sorta) and doing what?.....while the other's in flying are doing what due to disorientation by manipulations? Just what are you actually seeing? Comments wanted! Sincerely, Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:05:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Product Packages Should Include Allergy Warnings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Bee Product Packages Should Include Allergy Warnings Surveillance of Suspected Adverse Reactions to Natural Health Products: The Case of Propolis Drug Safety, Volume 31, Number 5, 2008 , pp. 419-423(5) http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/bee-product-packages-should-include.html Abstract: Natural health products are promoted to the public as equally or more effective and less toxic than conventional drugs. However, some `natural' medicines are known to have adverse effects... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:16:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Indian Beekeepers to be Trained in Royal Jelly Production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Indian Beekeepers to be Trained in Royal Jelly Production Domestic Makeover: No Need to Import Royal Jelly Anymore Anuradha Mascarenhas, Express India, 4/25/2008 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/indian-beekeepers-to-be-trained-in.html Soon, you would be able to sample from the very fountain of youth as there will be no longer a need to import royal jelly - the stuff that queen bees produce and which has found aficionados among celebrities the world over. Arguably for the first time in the country, 2.5 lakh beekeepers will be trained in making this premium product... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:13:04 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > "With handling as rough as that I am not surprised! Is > this normal in the > US?" > > As if there were some peculiarly American way of handling > bees? Come on! > > Steve Noble I need to add in here to what Steve has said. You hear of constant reports of beekeepers taking 30-40-50% makeups of hives each year. You see or hear of beekeepers with staging yards or holding yards with swarms hanging in trees all over the place, where they have just worked the bees, made up numbers, and they are disoriented and hanging in clumps all around and flying...........Now were these stong hives worked or weak nucs worked to do so? For healthy bees fly and sick bees just mop along and you pray they make it! Also, You telling me that isn't rougher on bees or same in a way, then what I simply did, by taking full boxes of brood, bees, and stores and simply walking to another part of same yard and setting down to make up simple walk away splits/divides, with field bees in same then to fly home and re-setup and regroup? For if you are commercial you know what I am talking about.......if you are not commercial, or work with what I call tonka toys or 1 box deep full nucs, than how is that actual commercial beekeeping, except in small numbers counting, for it certainly isn't going for honey the old way. Also maybe perhaps why so much honey is now imported instead of done here in USA. D- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:09:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: U.S. Honey Researcher Seeks Patients for Diabetic Foot Ulcer Study MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII U.S. Honey Researcher Seeks Patients for Diabetic Foot Ulcer Study Honey of a Healer Your favorite bee product is good for more than just food Andrew McDonnell, The Daily Page (USA), 4/25/08 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/us-honey-researcher-seeks-patients-for.html ...Researchers at the University of Wisconsin and elsewhere are exploring uses of honey for a number of ailments, from diabetic ulcers to the effects of radiation treatments... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:16:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bee Venom May Help Prevent Development of Arthritis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Bee Venom May Help Prevent Development of Arthritis Suppressive Effects of Bee Venom on the Immune Responses in Collagen-Induced Arthritis in Rats Phytomedicine, 2008 Apr 16 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/study-bee-venom-may-help-prevent.html The effect of bee venom (BVA) on the development of type II collagen (CII)-induced arthritis (CIA) in rats has been studied... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:52:23 -0700 Reply-To: k.kellison@earthlink.net Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Kathy Kellison Subject: Farm Bill update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Word is the $10 billion increase in total net increase farm bill spending has been resolved and that by sometime later this week the new Farm Bill will move out of conference. There are a few more issues being finalized this weekend. Now we just have to hope the pollinator provisions, which included substantial funding for honey bee research and related categories included in the conservation language portion, remain throughout these final conferences. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:18:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: The World According To Monsanto - Video 12 parts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On March 11 a new documentary was aired on French television (ARTE – French-German cultural tv channel) by French journalist and film maker Marie-Monique Robin, entitled 'The World According to Monsanto' (Le Monde selon Monsanto[1]). Starting from the Internet over a period of three years Robin has collected material for her documentary, going on to numerous interviews with people of very different backgrounds. She traveled widely, from Latin America, to Asia, through Europe and the United States, to personally interview farmers and people in influential positions. http://100777.com/node/1805 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:22:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: CCD Waves In-Reply-To: <3dcef4a10804261940w1c63c513nc382458194255c9b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline HI All, Prelim report for my nosema trial of 7 types of treatments. 64 colonies, randomized 8 groups, 7 treatments & controls. All had high spore counts in fall, and most were failing. Two treatments, except drenches, which got 4. I've been too buried to do all the sample counts (before, during, after) but will soon. But doing quick field scope check, spot checks of survivors indicated most still had moderate spore counts, regardless of treatment. A few colonies had low counts, again didn't see correlation with treatment. What is interesting to me is that the yard is now divided between recovered colonies that are exploding and look great (supered up, at least one swarmed huge), and really sick colonies that are suffering with unknown brood disease (samples going in for viral check Mon). A few with only a good looking queen with a tiny patch of good looking brood and a handful of bees. Will be checking those for spores hopefully tomorrow. The point is, that the recovery of dinks is amazing me. In most of my yards, when we moved to almonds, we left one or two colonies that had only 2-3 frames and that we didn't expect to survive the rest of winter. But when we returned to those yards this month to restock with nucs, many of the expected deadouts were thriving! This is just a report, no answers. Just dang curious. Randy Oliver Curious in Californa **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:27:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ian_Steppler?= Subject: Re: poor crop in Argentina? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A few comments made about a year ago, towards the crop forcast in South America, >No fit intended. Just applying some logic and facts to the >speculation. > >To summarise my points relating to the Argentinean crop: > >1. Recently crop estimates have not matched recorded exports. So the >estimates have greatly understated the crop. > >2. They have 4,000,000 hives. A huge increase - reporting may not >be keeping up with these changing dynamics. > >3. Their current hive numbers will produce at least 100,000 tonnes if >they equal a previous *worst* crop situation. > >4. Worst crops are always accompanied by lots of noise of disaster, >requests for Govt. assistance, other affected industries etc. and the >noise is LOUD and nationwide. Their own monthly (Feburary) honey >report does not support a nationwide failure ("worst crop for xxxxx >years") of the honey crop. ...>The same thing happened in the US 2006 crop. A lot of noise about >crop failures etc. Outcome? 70,000 tonnes down from 79,000 the >previoius year and 23% down on average (remember decreasing hive >numbers). > >Initial crop estimates are normally excessive. i.e. our experience is >that final crop outcomes *always* move towards the average from early >crop estimates. It seems it is just human nature to embellish and >embrace the "newsworthy". These conditons and factors didnt hold and the actual outcome of that crop could be considered a disaster. Very little carry over and poor production. What are the current conditions south American beekeepers have and/or are experiencing, what kind of South Americian crop are we experincing on the market place as of now? There has been a trade of white honey here for 1.35$/lbs. Where is the market going to go? **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:29:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: CCD Waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy wrote: > The point is, that the recovery of dinks is amazing me. In most of my > yards, when we moved to almonds, we left one or two colonies that had only > 2-3 frames and that we didn't expect to survive the rest of winter. But > when we returned to those yards this month to restock with nucs, many of > the > expected deadouts were thriving! > > This is just a report, no answers. Just dang curious. One of my strongest hives had a large quantity of dead bees in front of it(measured in quarts) in March here in Alabama....... This happened with about 7 of my some 300 hives in the same time frame. Two or three died but some have bounced back super fast and are top producers...that particular hive being close to # 1 in a yard of (now)about 30 hives. Most of the hives that had dead bees seemed to be in a rough cluster(50 foot circle in a yard approx 1/4 mile wide with about 90 hives overwintered there(see above-was 30 hives) I suspected tracheal but was unable to detect any under a borrowed scope. I coisider operator inexperience a main data point in this diagnosis. John Horton N Alabama **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:07:55 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: poor crop in Argentina? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ian The situation in Argentina is very bad. The price is high (app US$2.4 per kilo) but there is no honey to sell. You should translate this two articles to have a better idea. http://www.agrodiario.com.ar/despachos.asp?cod_des=10255&id_seccion=27 http://www.agrodiario.com.ar/despachos.asp?cod_des=10765&id_seccion=27 In Chile the price is around US$2.6 per kilo. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:46:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Fredericksen Subject: Re: Farm Bill update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought President Bush was going to veto any Farm Bill without farmer income limitations on subsidies. He wanted a 200K annual income cap and the current bill has none. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:32:50 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>no, there were some wildflowers, and a bunch of very small desert flowers, but the first main flow (prickly pair, achateia(sp)) had not yet hit. Then, I'd say your hives are at an excellent build-up point. My strongest hives are in 3 deeps and starting to deposit nectar in the first medium (end of April, south-eastern NY state). It always amazes me how fast bees build up at the start of the season. Pickep an approx. 6-lb swarm the other day. An unmarked queen and extremely (100%) colored bees... I am not used to such uniformity even from queen producers. >>Dee leaves everything in the 3 bottom boxes (deeps) for the bees...and some hives had brood in 4+ boxes _before_ the flow. What are the coldest temps in the winter in Arizona? >>a couple of other observations about the aggressiveness of the bees in these videos. I am not used to such rough handling of bees but suppose this is how commercial beekeepers go through hives. There must have been quite a few squashed bees from the movements I saw in the videos. I hardly kill a bee when going through hives. And my bees, a little unlike the video, do boil over with bees. If I did not smoke them into the boxes, I'd bee killing scores each time replacing a box. If you say you reeked of alarm odor, how come you were not getting stung? You'd expected a few stings under such conditions even from European bees. I was also very suprised how easily the boxes separated. My bees strive for continuous comb and I have to push down on the lower frames before lifting off a box. I was also surprised how seemingly effortlessly Dee was lifting off those deeps! A strong person indeed. Even a brood-filled deep is somewhat heavy. >>...bees simply do not like the video camera. There also seemed to be quite a few bees at the black netting of your bee suits. >>we went through about 500 hives in 7 working days, and made up about 100 splits. Wow! There was a mention a couple of times that you did not want to use smoke to drive nurse bees off the brood. Why? Were you concerned there would be insufficient nurses for the splits? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD Waves- question for Bob H In-Reply-To: <005d01c8a6dd$6b88f4a0$05e84cd8@HortonFamily> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello John & All, Jeff Pettis touched on the results at the national convention. You can order the CD or DVD of his talk. I can provide the numbers to order if you feel so inclined. I know of no published results yet. Not sure there will be published results as very little was learned in my opinion. Hackenberg is having troubles like he had before. The irradiated comb did not end his problems. If you are not seeing anything strange in your bees John then you are the first I have talked to. We may not be losing all our bees but most of us are seeing some things we have never seen. Bees not taking feed. Virus issues in bees with varroa under control. Hives missing bees on a small scale. Today I received a call from a commercial beekeeper which treated with miteaway 2 correctly and finished treatment 3 weeks ago. He is seeing deformed wings and PMS signs. We are checking further and I plan to contact David V, about what we are seeing. We did find a couple varroa in drone brood cells but it seems varroa is under control. We are wondering what the problem is. We may have to hit again with miteway 2 or another treatment. The bees look great but the informed see a problem brewing as the next treatment would be Sept.. I only heard of the problem a few hours ago but seeing virus issues on bees which were eggs or larva when treatment period ended is serious. Randy Oliver knows what I am talking about. All beekeepers need to keep a close eye on all hives. Still hearing reports of large scale die offs in Washington State. Beekeepers using holding yards seem to be having the most problems. Beekeepers with bees on locations report a couple yards not doing right or a few hives in a yard. Those in holding yards report the bees look great and then on the next trip are crashing. First testing results seems to point to nosema ceranae being hard to control per label and virus issues emerging in bees with varroa under control. Both serious issues for which I have no answer. We (like Randy) are trying a few things. My bees looked great last time I checked about 7 days ago( except for small issues in two yards which I will be testing this week). Will be checking further this weekwith the other commercial beekeeper. Hopefully U.S. beekeeping will get a handle on the problem before long. Funding seems close at hand with the farm bill . bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:37:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>>waldemar, a few comments inline: -- "waldig@netzero.net" wrote: What are the coldest temps in the winter in Arizona? >>>http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-normals.asp?partner=netweather&traveler=0&zipChg=1&zipcode=85621&metric=0 >>>has some typical highs/lows for her approximate area...but i also know that it often gets below freezing (and did this last year). I am not used to such rough handling of bees but suppose this is how commercial beekeepers go through hives. There must have been quite a few squashed bees from the movements I saw in the videos. I hardly kill a bee when going through hives. >>>i do things more gently also...but with this many hives, with this much to do, and with the cost of gas, to make a living at this, one needs to be fast. when there are 12+ frames of brood, killing even a few hundred bees is down in the noise. And my bees, a little unlike the video, do boil over with bees. If I did not smoke them into the boxes, I'd bee killing scores each time replacing a box. >>>yes, i know what you are talking about. my thoughts (at least at the moment) are based on the mendoza canyon video. watch carefully....there are lots of bees flying, very few "landed" on us, and yes, less "on the comb" than you often see. yet, it isn't like there isn't plenty of capped (and uncapped) brood. there must be enough bees to forage for and raise all that brood. based on that, i can't really see being "concerned" that there aren't more bees on the combs...conversely, it makes me wonder why we often see the pictures (and hives) we do see that are "dripping" with bees during the daytime...what are all those bees doing? i would assume they are necessary to raise the brood, but dee's hives show that they can raise plenty of brood _and_ store honey without them. If you say you reeked of alarm odor, how come you were not getting stung? You'd expected a few stings under such conditions even from European bees. >>>oh, we got a few stings, no doubt...but i don't think i ever got more than 5 in a day (of 100 or so hives). if you look closely, you will see the bees hovering around the veils...the combination of co2 and alarm scent kept that going...but really, if you look at all the bees flying, and you look at us, you will see bees in the air, not on the beekeepers. I was also very suprised how easily the boxes separated. My bees strive for continuous comb and I have to push down on the lower frames before lifting off a box. >>>well, a few observations. first, dee doesn't treat and uses all deep boxes..this means that frames can migrate easily between broodnest and honey storage duty. dee harvests propolis in the honey house, by scraping frames...this certainly accounts for some of the cleanliness. secondly, dee makes her own foundation, and leaves plenty of empty space at the bottoms. this leaves the bees room to put plenty of drone cells on the frames...when beekeepers use full sheets of worker foundation, the bees are more motivated to put comb between the boxes for drones. I was also surprised how seemingly effortlessly Dee was lifting off those deeps! A strong person indeed. Even a brood-filled deep is somewhat heavy. >>>yes, a strong person indeed! i moved many of those boxes, and they are not as light as she makes them look. Wow! There was a mention a couple of times that you did not want to use smoke to drive nurse bees off the brood. Why? Were you concerned there would be insufficient nurses for the splits? >>>the splits were almost all full box splits, without finding the queen. the idea is to make each part of the split plenty strong enough to build up quickly. when splitting off a box, any foragers are going to return to the old location...so having a large number of nurse bees is important...as the bees in that box have to continue to do their house duties, while also providing foragers and guards. >>>deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:41:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 28/04/2008 03:17:07 GMT Standard Time, waldig@NETZERO.NET writes: My bees strive for continuous comb and I have to push down on the lower frames before lifting off a box. This is one of the disadvantages of using oblong boxes. With square hives you can reduce the problem by having alternate boxes at right angles to the adjoining one. Accurate bee spacing is helpful too. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:36:02 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.com" Subject: Re: CCD Waves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>I suspected tracheal but was unable to detect any under a borrowed scope. I wondered about the tracheal mite life cycle... I think my colonies shed a lot of tracheal mites in the early [cold] spring when weaker bees drop to the ground. I suspect - can anyone confirm?? - these bees take a lot t. mites with themn since quite a few have the wings at 90 deg. or so to the body. Do tracheal mites leave older, weaker bees to move onto younger bees? The colony populations seems to markedly decrease during this time. Then the populations quickly rebound and the 90 deg. wing orientation becomes hard to find and the colonies do very well for the rest of the season. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:39:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: CCD Waves- question for Bob H In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "First testing results seems to point to nosema ceranae beinghard to contro= l per label and virus issues emerging in bees with varroaunder control." =20 I tested hives for varroa and nosema in Aug of last year. Tests were clean= , low mite counts of 2-3 mites, low tm counts and no nosema. Lost most of = those hives, which when tested as deadouts had in excess of 16 million nose= ma spores per bee... =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr= esh_realtime_042008= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:12:43 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... In-Reply-To: <20080427.163250.29674.0@webmail10.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Waldemar: > What are the coldest temps in the winter in Arizona? Reply: In my areas for apiaries/hives had many nights in teens this past winter along with snow. continuing: > I am not used to such rough handling of bees but suppose > this is how commercial beekeepers go through hives. Reply: Only do this once a year when springs warrant it with good season coming on. Then you learn to roll and work up for both production and bees which doesnt come many springs, but this year it has. continuing: There > must have been quite a few squashed bees from the movements > I saw in the videos. I hardly kill a bee when going through > hives. And my bees, a little unlike the video, do boil over > with bees. If I did not smoke them into the boxes, I'd > bee killing scores each time replacing a box. Reply: Not as many as you'd think, for you do not slam the boxes down in putting back on when ripping a main brood box, you slide it and that makes a big difference. So why do your bees boil over? don't you match the queens for negating right and left running and boiling movements? Continuing: > If you say you reeked of alarm odor, how come you were not > getting stung? You'd expected a few stings under such > conditions even from European bees. Reply: Wasn't really getting stung nor bees upon me for what we were doing, and even yards with 30-40 colonies each only took about a couple of hours to go thru (we averaged 4 yards a day by the way). I never said I reeked of alarm odor by the way. Where did that come from? But box jamming hives this way and ripping hives does put foragers/field bees into air, and in a way that is good, for doing this work you are only concerned about nurse bees anyways......for job at hand. continuing: > I was also very suprised how easily the boxes separated. > My bees strive for continuous comb and I have to push down > on the lower frames before lifting off a box. reply: The boxes/supers serperate easily because I like proper bee spacing, and not burr combs inbetween them on top bars, that makes for problems and who wants that mess anyways? Bad enough I see what little I do, though I do use it for annalyzing drones for varroa to see how hives doing. continuing: > I was also surprised how seemingly effortlessly Dee was > lifting off those deeps! A strong person indeed. Even a > brood-filled deep is somewhat heavy. Reply: Deeps are not heavy to handle if lifted properly and carried properly. Heck I am a woman and have no problem, but then have been in classes on how to lift and haul also growing up. Don't they teach beekeepers that anymore for working unlimited broodnests? continuing: > Wow! There was a mention a couple of times that you did > not want to use smoke to drive nurse bees off the brood. > Why? Were you concerned there would be insufficient nurses > for the splits? Reply: Did not want to drive nurse bees off because want the nurse bees to match the frames, me being highly technical, and so with fast rip/divides/splits done the old way you do not do this, meaning use smoke. You are taught to not use smoker, but to eyeball the circumstances fast, and then count frames, see drones avail and then roll.But you want to look down thru the frames and not see bottom, but full of bees instead. Also you only rip off those with bees, brood and full stores to each side. Boxes with honey you exchange with weak hives bottom 1/3. Dee ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:33:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Spring Buildup & Spring Nectars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit waldig@netzero.net wrote: >> Then, I'd say your hives are at an excellent build-up > point. My strongest hives are in 3 deeps and starting to > deposit nectar in the first medium (end of April, > south-eastern NY state). This site (which is a bit slow to load) will give an idea of the bloom in that area this season. http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/flw_blooming.html According to information on site here, with spring growth starting sometime in mid January, and abundant blooms by mid March. It is perhaps, with good management, within the realm of expected performance, with the aforementioned most credited for this. I came through winter with some weak colonies and some strong colonies. My strong colonies worked up so fast this season, that I went about and supered them up one week into the dandelion bloom, and checked back last weekend to find some dandelion nectar being surplus-ed. My goal is to get the colonies into the locust bloom at full production. I don’t what to hold them back, split or do anything to risk black locust production. Question for those that may know. Should I pull the frames and save the dandelion, when capped for consumption? I hear it is bitter, but not sure if I should simply feed it back or not. I have black cherry just coming on now also. If the colonies are collecting surplus of dandelion, they will be strong enough to get the black cherry also. I understand that black cherry is also bitter honey. should I feed it back or keep it? Strangely enough, my customers do not want the tulip honey which overlaps the locust bloom here somewhat. Perhaps, if I do not find a market for the Tulip honey, will save it for winter feed back, maybe trading off the frames in the fall for the more finicky golden rod. Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles FeralBeeProject.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:50:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD Waves- question for Bob H In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim & All, Jim I do not have all the answers to our problems. Wish I did but will provide what I have learned. > I tested hives for varroa and nosema in Aug of last year. Tests were > clean, low mite counts of 2-3 mites, low tm counts and no nosema. No nosema? The problem in larger operations in my opinion is random testing. The recommendations from Spain shows that if you find nosema ceranae spores then you should treat. Regardless of spore counts. I don't want to step into an area my friend Randy Oliver is working on in his tests but what I was told. > Lost most of those hives, which when tested as deadouts had in excess of > 16 million nosema spores per bee... My opinion is you missed the fact you had nosema in the fall. Research done in Spain has shown that even nosema ceranae takes a period of time to kill the hive. However only symptoms can be beekeeper detected in the last two months (other than by microscope spore count). Faster crashes occur in my opinion when heavy nosema spore contamination is on comb. recommendation: I would treat the dead out comb with acetic acid before reinstalling bees. Sincerely, Bob Harrison **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:00:23 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... In-Reply-To: <20080427.233731.18820.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit deknow@netzero.net > > I am not used to such rough handling of bees but suppose > this is how commercial beekeepers go through hives. Hello Dean, Could you please comment on the propolis usage in those colonies you inspected? I do not know what is expected for bees in desert areas as far as the environmental influence on propolis usage are concerned. I DO realize it was spring there, and therefore, propolis usage I would expect to be more nearer to much lower than nearer to much higher. But it appears to me these colonies were either recently manipulated priory, Or propolis usage in that area is much nearer to none than nearer to some. ;) In observing the video, I was rater astounded to see that a quick half second wedge of a frame with the hive tool was all that was needed to jar completely free, the frames. And the pulling of frames by gripping from the center with one hand is NEVER possible in my area at any time of season due to propolis usage and weighted-ness. It always necessitates two hands to implement the procedure here, even in spring. And the ease in which the hives were pried apart indicated the hives were not propolised, and weighted to the low side. I‘m not sure, and I‘m not watching the video again, BUT did I see a few frames being pulled out two at a time from the box?,,,Or am I mistaken? Please elaborate on the propolis usage in that desert environment. Best Wishes, Joe ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:08:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Honey Effective Against Drug-Resistant Bacteria, Skin Infections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Honey Effective Against Drug-Resistant Bacteria, Skin Infections Medical-Grade Honey Kills Antibiotic-Resistant Bacteria In Vitro and Eradicates Skin Colonization Clinical Infectious Diseases, 2008;46:000-000 http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2008/04/honey-effective-against-drug-resistant.html We assessed the in vitro bactericidal activity of Revamil (Bfactory), a medical-grade honey produced under controlled conditions, and assessed its efficacy for reduction of forearm skin colonization in healthy volunteers in a within-subject-controlled trial. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:37:11 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: CCD Waves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob said: > Even if the USDA_ARS claimed they had a bee which did > not need treatment I would only risk a 100 hives at > first. Been burned too many times by claims. I don't know anyone with more hives than fingers and toes upon which to count them who would go "all in" on something new without first trying a small-scale roll out for a season. It is not that everyone with a new technique is wrong or cannot be trusted, it is just that techniques tend to be very hard to explain and understand without practice, and in a craft where technique matters so much, everything has to be exposed to all techniques in order to verify that it is compatible. A beekeeper is a lot like a magician, in that one must learn techniques and be able to do them effortlessly, and THEN one can assemble the techniques into "an act". It may be why mentoring works so well at teaching the craft of beekeeping, and why books and websites and even videos are so unsuccessful at doing more than raising questions and starting arguments. Randy said: > When we moved to almonds, we left one or two colonies > that had only 2-3 frames and that we didn't expect to > survive the rest of winter. But when we returned to > those yards this month to restock with nucs, many of > the expected deadouts were thriving! Doesn't this clearly indicate that the colonies mentioned were misdiagnosed in the first place? In my experience, there are no miraculous recoveries of colonies, there are no entomological medical miracles. There are only colonies that prove the beekeeper's diagnosis wrong by surviving unexpectedly, or, more often, prove the beekeeper's methods are faulty by dying unexpectedly. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:43:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: CCD Waves- question for Bob H In-Reply-To: <2C83F4249C954CE9B240F830C15F87CB@bobPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "My opinion is you missed the fact you had nosema in the fall." =20 That is also my opinion. It is also of concern that early testing didn't s= how a problem with nosema at all. =20 "I would treat the dead out comb with acetic acid before reinstalling bees. =20 I have also heard you could heat treat the old combs at 120F for 3-4 hours = and kill off 90-98% of the spores, how does this compare with acetic acid? = Thanks. =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Back to work after baby=96how do you know when you=92re ready? http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=3D= 5797498&ocid=3DT067MSN40A0701A= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:33:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: CCD Waves- question for Bob H In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim & All, Again I do not want to somehow indicate heating comb might not be a better method but for me acetic acid makes better sense. > I have also heard you could heat treat the old combs at 120F for 3-4 hours > and kill off 90-98% of the spores, how does this compare with acetic acid? Heating comb for control of spores: Some beeks say 3-4 hours is enough but I believe researchers say 24 hours. I think Jim Fischer explained that the comb takes awhile to reach the required temp which makes sense. My only experience with heating comb has been in the honey house hot room. My honey house has spray foam insulation and little heat escapes. Heat comes from a 100,000 BTU furnace. I can maintain the temp. at 100F. and could go higher with a different thermostat. At today's propane prices I would need to treat a bunch to justify using the room in other than hot weather. New comb might sag at 120F. but old dark comb would be ok. However if temps climber to 130F. for some unknown reason (such as thermostat problems) then I might end up with a mess. acetic acid: If you are bringing in say a dozen boxes which need treatment then you simply stack and apply acid on top. ( two stacks). A few minutes and done. Outside and you do not have to worry about wax moths. Brood comb sitting waiting for the hot room treatment needs protecting. When the acid is gone you simple move in and protect ( or in my case put on pallets on the container)as you normally would. discussion: The hot room treatment at certain times of the year might work for me but once extracting starts (late June) and can run until November using the hot room is almost impossible. Each beekeepers situation is different but using heat for the small beekeeper might be problematic. Most wives are not willing to let their hubbies use the cooking stove and wax is so flammable. I wonder if Phostoxin gas would kill nosema spores. Does the list know? A somewhat dangerous practice but legal and approved for bee hive comb. Most very large beekeepers use the gas. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: IAPV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trevor said: > So if the virus is rapidly changing, At this point, the claim is mere speculation, nothing more. Viruses certainly do change, often rapidly, but multiple "strains" of IAPV was merely the excuse offered when the Evans/Chen paper was published (buried!) in ABJ, merely to avoid retracting the claims of the Sept 2007 paper in "Science" in light of the contradictory findings of Evans/Chen, which refuted nearly every claim made in the "Science" paper: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0711A&L=BEE-L&P=R1466&D =0&I=-3&T=0 http://bee-quick.com/reprints/claims_collapse.pdf While it is gratifying to at hear that at long last, some data will be offered along with the claims "(J. of Virology, in Press)", the usual approach is to get some data FIRST and THEN to make some claims, rather than the other way 'round. :) > couldn't it have been the case that Australia got the IAPV > from stock imported from the western USA prior to 1983, Yes, that's possible, but it is not the only plausible scenario. IAPV >>might<< have come to the Western Hemisphere from Australia via Canada when the Canadian border was closed to US bees, and Canadian beekeepers were forced to get bees from elsewhere, thereby creating the entire wacky concept of shipping bees across oceans, setting up both Australia and New Zealand "in the business". But there's no need to claim that anything "came back" to the US from Australia at all to fit the data in hand. All the variants could have easily have developed here in the US without any outside "help". In fact, the sheer number of variants claimed to exist in the USA tends to indoicate that Australia was nothing but another victim of an infection that spread from the USA. > the virus has changed since then and what came back to the USA > in bees is a mutated version of what came out in the first place? > The statement says the Australian and western USA isolates > are a close matches. Yes, isn't that interesting. CCD was first noticed where in the USA? Not out west. 3,000 miles east of "the west". Let's walk though this: Assume for a moment that the following claims are true: 1) That there are "strains of IAPV" in the USA. 2) That these strains are "regional". 3) That one of these IAPV strains is somehow "associated with CCD". If follows that if IAPV has anything to do with CCD, CCD should have been a regional phenomena, or a specific strain of IAPV should be consistently found in CCD colonies, and traceable via specific movement of hives from the orginal region to the others. What has been found is that IAPV is nowhere near as consistent a "marker for CCD" as was claimed, as it is not even reliabily found at all in CCD colonies. The speculation about "IAPV strains", even if it was true, simply DOES NOT FIT the experience we have had with CCD. The AIA news release itself admits: "Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV) was found in 9 of the 11 states sampled, and in 47% of all sampled colonies." and "No cause and effect between IAPV and CCD was demonstrated" So why are we still being "informed" about Ian Lipkin's pet virus when it continues to become more and more irrelevant with every set of samples analyzed? And, when someone says: > "Australian and western USA isolates are a close matches." Recall that "Close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, as ALL the variants of IAPV could be said to be "close matches". Also, remember that this is the same gang that claimed IAPV was a "significant marker" for CCD and had been "traced to two points of entry into the US", only to be proven wrong by samples kept on the very next shelf in the same refrigerator. If "isolates" are "close matches", does this imply that one isolate is a ancestor of the other? It certainly is likely, but this exact logic is what prompted me to suggest last fall that IAPV originated in the USA! "Epidemiology 101" teaches that the place where the most viral variants are found is the site of origin of the virus. Further, we still have no association between IAPV and any disease, CCD included, as there was no "locality" or "regionality" to CCD as there appears to be for their suspect strain. Let me stress this, as it only requires one to think slowly about what is now being claimed. One thing is heartening - they are at long last tacitly admitting that what was suggested by another research team was both insightful and prescient, that there are multiple strains of Nosema ceranae in the US. A year ago, they ridiculed that team, and now owe them an apology and a few citations and notes. (We also have Higis in Spain, who reported very "CCD-like" pathologies in hives experimentally infected with Nosema ceranae, and left to cope.) In general, the experience of the Penn State/USDA CCD team has been an object lesson for all on the perils of becoming infatuated with any single theory. New data should not prompt even more unlikely scenarios to be offered, when the simple solution is to simply drop the single claim that was tacitly disproven by the new data. Others looking for IAPV in the field are finding it much less often than the "Science" paper claimed they would, and one is forced to wonder if "metagenomics" was a less discriminating assay than Penn State and USDA were led to beleive by Ian at Columbia. (Anyone heard from Ian lately? I wonder why he has distanced himself from his own findings when he trumpted them so widely at the time.) Bottom line, "Metagenomics" may have been just as misleading for CCD as it was for the Neanderthals: http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.003017 5 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:57:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Ian_Steppler?= Subject: Re: poor crop in Argentina? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A quote off one of the links provided, >>an industry that is in real collapse Wow, sounds bad. Kinda sounds like the current farming situation there. Are the beekeepers taking to the streets as the farmers are there, due to the added tax on thier export issued in March? Soo much can change in a matter of a year or two. It sounds as if the power house food producer is experiencing huge difficulty maintaining its production yeilds. Weather problems causing the most of the worries and difficulties, but also, underlying economic problems. I dont see this situation relieving itself in the near time future. It is nearly impossible to turn a collaping sector around in a matter of a year or even two. Even if the weather cooperates to make good conditions for cropping yeilds, it will take some time to rebuild the industry, beekeeping and cropping sectors need the government on their side to start with, **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:58:17 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>This is one of the disadvantages of using oblong boxes. With square hives you can reduce the problem by having alternate boxes at right angles to the adjoining one. I have not seen this - it commonly practices in the UK? Sounds like a neat idea but I wonder if/how it affects the bees. Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:18:45 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "waldig@netzero.net" Subject: Re: Lusby Videos, Marrage, and more... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >>when there are 12+ frames of brood, killing even a few hundred bees is down in the noise. Right. It seemed rolling or squashing a queen was not a big concern although definitely a possibility when shoving frames back into the boxes. >>...conversely, it makes me wonder why we often see the pictures (and hives) we do see that are "dripping" with bees during the daytime...what are all those bees doing? The good books say most of a colony's bees are one sort or another of a house bee. [One learns to read everything with a grain of salt...] Only a small % does the foraging according to them. Capped brood especially hardly needs covering bees other than regulating the temperature. It occured to me that bees in the desert Southwest behave somewhat differently that the bees in the Northeast. The amount of brood in Dee's hives did seem very impressive. A hive could not raise that much brood without sufficient bees to control temp & humidity. >>the splits were almost all full box splits, without finding the queen. So Dee does not care much if the laying queen is in the split or the parent hive? Waldemar **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:51:10 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: queenbee Subject: Re: poor crop in Argentina? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are the beekeepers taking to the streets as the farmers are there, due to > the added tax on thier export issued in March? Talking with a beekeeper in Argentina he tells me that the beekeepers did participate in the demonstrations. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:00:21 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: poor crop in Argentina? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ian You are abolutelly rigth about the situation in Argentina. I will like to add from MY point of view that part of the problem of the beekeeping industry in argentina is a structural change in their agricultural sector. Beekeepers there were use to put their hives around the Tambos (extensive alfalfa an other cattle pasture) but now the Soya have taken most of that beekeeping areas. In terms of the price for the near future, Argentina and beekeeping are surprising. They have some 2.5 millions colonies, so a minor change in favorable weather can put argentinian production back in the market. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************