From MAILER-DAEMON Sat Feb 28 11:15:24 2009 Return-Path: <> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.8 (2007-02-13) on industrial X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-86.4 required=2.4 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,ROLEX,SPF_HELO_PASS,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.8 X-Original-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Delivered-To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Received: from listserv.albany.edu (unknown [169.226.1.24]) by metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B75490B3 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n1SG3YXR017258 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:35 -0500 From: "University at Albany LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG0809D" To: adamf@IBIBLIO.ORG Message-ID: Content-Length: 113816 Lines: 2623 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:09:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: mite-way II In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mike & All, > Bob how do you treat the triples, with both products. I have not treated triples with mite away 2 as i always have pulled the bottom box by spring treatment time. The few triples I have in the yards now were left for various reasons and not my normal method of beekeeping as I run on pallets in doubles. *if* I have a few in triples in a yard I do give the triple a 50 ml. dose of apigard. > I currently put the product between the second and third brood chamber if the third is full of only honey, I am sure a better method than mine. I simply place a spacer on top and place the apigard on the tray in center. Do you place the apigard in the center of the top of the second box Mike? You are quite a bit farther north than me. I have completed two treatments on my hives and will do the last this this week. I am a week later treating than last year. I hope to complete feeding ,treating and getting ready for winter by Oct. 6th. Many of my doubles are solid bees in two boxes with brood in both boxes. Some are solid bees in the spacers and hanging off the front. However after the old bees die off the bees will be mostly in one box and a half boxes. > How do you measure the 25 ml of apigard?? Randy Oliver had a picture in one of his articles and I measured and his picture is right on. I did use a bull syringe to measure but found Randy's hive tool measure the quickest and easiest method. Scope a dip with your hive tool back about a inch and a half. Two scopes make 50 ml. Randy might give the month of the article that has the picture. if its a triple do you put the 50 ml on the triple?? and do it three times. Two 50 ml. should work but you need to consider temps etc. > All the rest of the hives that I put apigard instead of mite-way, cleaned it up in under seven days. Your hives must be strong as I find you can tell the strength of a hive by the way they remove the apigard. *Dinks* always have got a little pile left but strong hives you find the holder removed and in front of the hive. I wonder about hives which remove the apigard so fast as the time period is supposed to be 7 days minimum. >when i used to treat for tracheal mites with menthol, hardly any beeks use the bags these days. menthol on shop towels is the norm and is an approved method. >now that the golden rod is gone, We are getting a strong goldenrod flow now. Bees are all over the bloom and you can smell the nectar when in the yard. I don't like to let the bees winter on only golden rod so have got the feed truck going and feeding. I think the bees winter better when golden rod is mixed with sucrose. Has been four years since we had a strong fall golden rod flow. I should be catching and selling but thinking getting the bees ready for winter now. The bees look better than they have in years so have got my fingers crossed they will stay in excellent shape. What are other BEE-L members bees looking like? bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Cause and Effect - Diabetes In-Reply-To: <200809212359.m8LNxo3b017001@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Moderator's note: This thread has gone far astray the intended topics for BEE-L discussion! **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:47:53 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Yet another "cure for bee colony collapse-associated virus" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Uncertainty and confusion is the native habitat for scoundrels, so I'm not sure what to think about this. http://tinyurl.com/4yfqgj or http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enDispWho=Articles^l2290&enPage=BlankPag e&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enVersion=0&enZone=Health "According to the company, Remebee provides protection from IAPV." Now RNA interference is a perfectly legit technique, but by now, everyone knows that they are targeting the wrong pathogen, as IAPV clearly predated CCD by several years in the US, and IAPV does not correlate to CCD anywhere near as well as initialy claimed. http://bee-quick.com/reprints/claims_collapse.pdf http://www.dadant.com/documents/ChenandEvansarticlefromDec07ABJ.pdf **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:19:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Montana State Beekeepers, Oct 16-17, Helena, MT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 To all Bee-L members. The Montana Beekeepers Annual Meeting will be in=20 Helena, MT, Oct 16-17, at the Red Lion Colonial Inn. David Westervelt from= =20 Florida will be the Keynote Speaker and will address CCD, hive beetle, and=20= other =20 issues. =20 Dave Wick and I will talk about Nosema ceranae and viruses in bees, now tha= t=20 we have the results from several hundred bee samples from across the U.S. =20 We've found one that reproduces in both mites and bees (first discovery in=20 U.S.), and we have learned a lot about viruses and are beginning to see how= bee=20 management affects viral infestations in bees. =20 Sue Blodgett will talk about alfalfa weevil control (chemical and=20 non-chemical) in the Dakotas and MT. Western Bee and Mann Lake will be the= re. =20 One thing that may be of interest to Bee-L members - MT still has a strong=20 apiary law, and Patty Denke, our State Entomologist, and the MT Beekeepers=20 have been working on changes to update the law. =20 The law change committee will be having a conference call on Sept 22nd. =20 During the conference call they will be wrapping up all of the proposed chan= ges =20 and moving them up forward to the 2009 legislator to be come law. Members =20= of=20 the Committee are Andy Drange, Steve Parks, James Rehm, Jim Rodenberg, Bria= n=20 Dyer, Tom Hamilton, or Wade Anderson. =20 The following is from Andy Drange, President of MT Beekeepers:=20 "We hope to see everyone at convention. There will be lots of good=20 information. Don=E2=80=99t forget : Make room reservations ASAP, Auction it= ems, items for=20 speaker baskets. Please return your registration to us by OCT. 8th. We hav= e to=20 give head counts to the Hotel. Registering the day of, may mean you can= =E2=80=99t go=20 to any of the meals. They need a count 72 hours in advance." Andy Drange,=20 Pres.=20 Note: The hotel block of rooms reservation ended on Sept 16, but you can =20 call them at 1-800-733-5466. Tell them you are with the MT Beekeepers =20 Association. (Jerry) If you'd like to attend, you can reach Andy or Jodie Drange at=20 _HnyBnyMT@aol.com_ (mailto:HnyBnyMT@aol.com) , 406 628-8839.=20 The meetings start at 1 on Thursday, end with a Banquet Friday evening. MT= =20 Beekeepers are mainly large scale, commercial, family-run operations, but t= he=20 Association welcomes all beekeepers.=20 Jerry=20 **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial=20 challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips a= nd=20 calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=3Demlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:39:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?windows-1252?Q?Mike_Bassett?= Subject: Re: mite-way II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:09:28 -0500, Bob Harrison wrote: >center of the top of the second box Mike? true, I put it in the center of the second box if the third box has only honey, if alot of brood in third box then I put it on third box. > >I am a week later treating than last year. I'm treating at the same time but the weather is cooler this year. >We are getting a strong goldenrod flow now. Bees are all over the bloom and you can smell the nectar when in the yard. since our golden rod is done, I'm guessing you have a different variety. Did you ever consider collecting the seeds and selling them to us northerners, with the climate change and all we could go another couple of weeks b/4 pulling our supras, I don't think my back could take it. >What are other BEE-L members bees looking like? Many hives here are in excelent shape, mite counts are higher than the last three years, almost no early swarms, but we only had one week without rain(bass wood) until golden rod came in, all the swarms happened in Aug- sept, similar to two years ago and everyone lost many hive. but the flow was better this year than two years ago so we will see. I also received the following from mite-way II I have heard of all of the following requirements except:minimum colony size six full frames of bees for the cluster. If my hives are heavy they may be down to six frames but I never really checked. below is a response I sent to Bee-L last Monday. For some reason it was not posted, even though I received the automated "received" notice. > From: David Vander Dussen > Subject: Re: [BEE-L] mite-way II > Hi Mike; > > The MAII formula has not changed. Just a few comments: > > I am presuming that you have followed the label: bottom > entrance fully open, inch and a half spacer rim on the brood > chamber, MAII pad up on half inch sticks set on the top > bars, holes are facing down, maximum hive size double brood > chamber standard Langstroth supers, minimum colony size six > full frames of bees for the cluster. > > I am also presuming that you treated in the spring so the > varroa mites didn't get above threshold. If not, check > out the "Save Your Bees" treatment program, > available free by request off the website www.miteaway.com, > for developing a treatment program. > > What you are seeing does not sound out of the ordinary for > the start of a Mite-AwayII treatment, unless the bee loss is > more than a couple of cups. Then other stresses are likely > to be in play. Formic acid vapors are being used to kill > mites, a living thing, and bees under stress can be > impacted, especially if the varroa levels got above > treatment threshold (3,200 mites). Are these mostly drones, > workers, mite damaged brood/young bees being ejected, or a > mix? > > For our registration we had to document effects to the > environment. Vegetation browning within 6 to 8 inches of > the entrance is normal. I'm surprised this wasn't > noticed before. Usually the plants are not killed and will > be putting up new top growth shortly. > > Every container of MAII has a production code number on it > - look for the sticker between the pail ridges. The formic > acid used to manufacture MAII is run in 26,000 kg batches, > (57,320 lbs.) each batch is independently certified by an > outside lab before it is brought on stream. > > From your email you treated on Wednesday, September 10th. > Feed now for winter if you haven't yet, in a way that > won't interfere with the MAII application (Miller > feeder, through a lid feeder hole or inner cover with a > pail, open barrel method, etc,). If there is any nectar > flow on at the time the bees will ignore the feed but will > get into it when the flow shuts off. Check the colony on > October 10th. What you will see is clean hatching brood for > the winter cluster, the queen will probably still be laying > and you can look forward to healthy hives come spring. > > Treatment with MAII can look different from other treatment > methods. Formic acid is a cleanser, killing bacteria. It > is commonly used to de-stone medical equipment in a 10% > concentration. It is also used agriculturally to preserve > calf feed at room temperature for 3 to four days for demand > feeding systems. > > Bees can take higher levels of formic vapor than the mites, > both varroa and tracheal, which is why it can be used as a > mite control product. MAII is the safest and most effective > way to apply formic acid. There is often some initial brood > loss as it says on the label, usually less than three days > and just the youngest larva and eggs so there has been very > little investment by the bees. This is one of the trade > offs to get an effective treatment. The MAII chemistry was > developed and many applications were tested before bringing > MAII to the market place. The bottom line was that it had > to work to control mites with minimum damage to the > colonies, no residues in the hive or the honey. We are > proud of the result. > > yours truly, > David VanderDussen > NOD Apiary Products > > **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:33:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Darrell Subject: retail price of fresh propolis In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I have a customer who wants to buy fresh propolis. What is a fair retail price? I will be supplying him with clean propolis from a hive top trap. Bob Darrell Caledon Ontario Canada 44N80W **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 04:23:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: retail price of fresh propolis In-Reply-To: <473AD811-7DFB-4406-BD55-C7E5C5B5BB49@interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "I have a customer who wants to buy fresh propolis. What is a fair retail price? I will be supplying him with clean propolis from a hive top trap" Brazil sell its green propolis to Japan at US$100 per kilo I sell mine at US$50 per kilo. Somewhere there I guess is fair -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:37:16 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: retail price of fresh propolis In-Reply-To: <473AD811-7DFB-4406-BD55-C7E5C5B5BB49@interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, Back in 2000 I was getting a good $200 a lb. for mine. Won't tell you what = I am getting now, but in capsules think 2 for $1 in small container "O" siz= e. But keep in mind that propolis has a higher affinity for absorption of c= ontamination then beeswax too!=A0 =A0 D =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:39:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: retail price of fresh propolis In-Reply-To: <473AD811-7DFB-4406-BD55-C7E5C5B5BB49@interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The lowest *retail* price I have seen as been in the mid forties range. The highest around eighty. However those prices are after removing everything but the propolis. I am not sure of the current wholesale price but the price varies with the amount of wax etc. with the propolis. Buyers will accept most propolis sent but will only pay after extracting the propolis I have been told. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:55:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: C Hooper Subject: Bees Can Spread Genetically Modified Crops Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bees Can Spread Genetically Modified Crops Bees Can Mediate Escape of Genetically Engineered Material Over Several Kilometers http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080922100152.htm ScienceDaily (Sep. 22, 2008) — A study by scientists from the Nairobi-headquartered international research centre icipe, in collaboration with the French Institut de Recherche pour le Développement (IRD) has established that bees have the potential to mediate the escape of transgenes (genetically engineered material) from crops to their wild relatives over several kilometres… www.ApitherapyNews.com - The Internet's Best Source of Information About the Medicinal Use of Bee Products **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:40:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER IS A MAJOR PROBLEM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline found on the internet: COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER IS A MAJOR PROBLEM Save the Bees offers high quality green products- green clothing. T-shirts, caps and more. Ten percent of every purchase goes to bee research and scholarship grants. Wear the logo. Be envirocentric and educate the youth of America. SAVE THE HONEY BEES SAVE YOURSELF WHEN YOU WEAR OUR DISTINCTIVE LOGO NOT ONLY DO YOU PROCLAIM YOUR CONCERN FOR THE PLIGHT OF THE BEES YOU ALSO MAKE A STATEMENT OF CONCERN FOR ALL ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES FROM SILENT SPRING TO GLOBAL WARMING Save the Bees They are your friends. If They Die Out The World May End. "What bees ask of us is simple: a world free from poisons and other stressors, with places where they can nest and a sweet, season-long supply of flowering plants. In return, they offer to teach us their deepest lesson yet. Much as a honeybee belongs to her colony, so we humans belong to the living community of the Earth." [Hmm. I thought their deepest lesson was to sting the piss out of anything that tries to mess with you] **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:32:33 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bill Lord Subject: Apiguard and screened bottoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob and Randy; Excellent discussion on practicalities of working with Apiguard. I have been using it since it first came out with good results. Howver,the biggest pain I have is closing off screened bottom boards. I have tried all sorts of paper barriers but just like the Apiguard trays-they get eaten out. What do you guys do to close off bottoms? Bill Lord Louisburg,NC **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:14:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Research Highlights Animal behaviour: Counting bee Honeybees (Apis mellifera) can count up to four — giving them another string to their navigational bow. Working at the Australian National University in Canberra, Marie Dacke and Mandyam Srinivasan trained the insects to fly down a tunnel in search of food placed beside one of five identical landmarks positioned at intervals. When trained bees flew into a tunnel that had no food, they searched most at the previously rewarding landmark — unless it was number five. Moving the landmarks nearer to or farther away from each other did not fool the bees, showing that they were not relying on distance, but were counting the number of landmarks before the food. Changing landmarks from stripes to spots had no effect either, suggesting that bees can use numbers in an abstract way. Anim. Cogn. 11, 683–689 (2008) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:44:43 +1000 Reply-To: Trevor Weatherhead Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Drawing small cell foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Way back I reported that I was having problems getting my bees to draw = some wax coated small cell foundation. I think it was Dee who advised = to make the side bars 33 mm instead of the standard 35mm as the extra = space was allowing the bees to not draw off the foundation but to draw = brace combs. Well did that and guess what? They still did not draw it off the = foundation but created a mess by drawing off the comb and across the = space. So my experiment to get some of my bees to convert to 4.9 small = cell has failed. Maybe I was a bit ambitious to get them to go down in = one go. Where can I get 5.1 foundation, plastic preferred? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:09:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_de_Bruyn_Kops?= Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Trevor Weatherhead wrote: > Where can I get 5.1 foundation, plastic preferred? I have heard that Pierco is 5.1 but have not measured it myself. I had difficulty getting nicely drawn comb using 4.9 all-wax foundation from a major US beekeeping supply house. I recall discussing the general issue with Kirk Webster who had not used that particular foundation but had experience with a number of foundation mills over the years. He suggested the possibility that the angles of the cell bases in the foundation could be incorrect and the bees made a mess trying to work around that defect. Maybe he will chime in with more explanation. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:13:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone on the list used a reefer or box semi-trailer in areas where bears are a problem? I know the archives list lots of info on fencing techniques, including baiting, to teach bears to stay away from the apiary, but that is a lot of investment for a possible short term stay...Suggestions welcome Jim not that jim the one from the state of jefferson **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:48:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: randy oliver Subject: Re: Apiguard and screened bottoms In-Reply-To: <092420081832.22643.48DA87C100007F210000587322230703629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B9D01040999@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > >What do you guys do to close off bottoms? I'm using the same corrugated plastic sign board that I use to catch mite drop. FWIW, we are seeing some colonies apparently having a hard time with formic this past week. Unfortunately, I'm off to a conference, and won't be able to check for several days. Randy Oliver **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:15:08 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: joe carson Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim=2C I have three Conex's or refer trailers which I use for bees. I also have t= wo buses. The refers work well in the summer but the buses get to hot in t= he winter with all the radient heat through the glass windows causing the b= ees to eat too much of their winter stores. The refers work well for winte= ring. I like to keep mine at 40 degrees as best I can in the winter. In C= entral Europe they have trailers which are permanent bee hive carriers whic= h are very good protection for the bees. They pull the trailers to locatio= n and work the hives from inside. Hives are lined up inside=2C mounted to = the interior floor on both sides of the trailer. This can be costly when y= our operation in large. You can actually get two hives on top of each othe= r per side. You must keep on top of the apiary to prevent overcrowding but= it is very do-able and I know hives that produce many hundreds of pounds o= f honey per yearin good locations. Joe Carson Alaska _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC=2C the Web=2C and your mobile phone with Windows= Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim Smith & All, I think a fence will be cheaper but a reefer would work if in the shade. Temps would reach 120 F. the reefer on a hot day in the sun. Ventilation would be a problem. Tires are a problem if left in place very long. Bear fence: Good ground for bear to stand on. cattle panels or fencing on ground hooked to copper rod 3 ft. in ground . Hot fence with bacon hanging on wires. Against the law but I have heard of beeks hooking up 110 to the wires. Nose and mouth parts when shocked get the bears attention. Bare feet pads make a good ground. Bears are harder to control once the bear/bears have been in the yard and tasted the honey. In bear country a strong fence should go up before the bear finds the yard. Only a novice would set a yard in bear country without a fence. I have had discussions with Peta people over the above. My position has always been no bear has died from a shock from a electric fence. The alternative is usually a bullet in the head which is not needed . relocating the bear usually means you simple move the bear into another beeks territory and he/she may be using the second option. It has always been my experience that it is cheaper to buy a fence than lose a yard of bees to bear damage. The University of Montana at their web site has directions ( video) on a bear proof fence. Hastily put up fences are usually the fences bears get through. Jerry Brumenshenk has greater experience with bears than I have however I have cleaned up after bears and built fence. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:28:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This message was originally submitted by deelusbybeekeeper@YAHOO.COM to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove HTML formatting. -----Original Message----- From: Dee Lusby [mailto:deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 1:21 AM To: Trevor Weatherhead; BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Subject: Re: [BEE-L] Drawing small cell foundation Trevor, Way back you say...well, I guess that has to be a few years by now depending upon whether the S. Korean first batch or Dadant second batch. But there was more mentioned then size of end bars for doing back then. It also included time of year, and positioning of frames, in order to avoid overlaying of comb drawing which I think is what you are talking about. since bees draw out comb differently for worker then for storage/drone size. Also, depending upon size of bees starting with, there are other things to consider also.   D **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:27:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: Silencing Viral Genes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Silencing Viral Genes Beeologics' solution - Remebee - utilizes a mechanism called RNA interference (RNAi, also known as gene silencing) to hinder or inhibit gene expression. "The technology is based on naturally occurring biological agents. Conceptually, we're introducing the factor that prompts the silencing response," said Nitzan Paldi, the CTO at Beeologics. "We didn't invent gene silencing. However, as far as we know we are among the first to use it commercially on non-humans." Ben-Chanoch hopes that Remebee will just be the start for Beeologics. The businessman who founded GreenOvation Labs, a Florida-based business accelerator for innovative biotech technologies in 2007, hopes the company will become the 'go to' company for bee health. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:48:11 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Bear Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -- Bob Harrison wrote: >Against the law but I have heard of beeks hooking up 110 to the wires. hrrrm...given that details are given as to how to setup a fence (grounding, baiting, etc), it seems (at least from my perspective) irresponsible at best to discuss charging the fence at 110v, and not even mention the safe, effective, and legal ways to charge a fence. you might as well also recommend charging barbed wire to really get the job done :( folks, there are good and effective fence chargers that use pulses of dc current that will do the job just fine. they can run off of line current, battery (mine stay charged about a month with cheap tractor battieries), or even solar/battery combo. the off chance that a person, child, pet, or other wildlife could get tangled and zapped with ac line current (not such an off chance if you are baiting with bacon) should keep you from doing this under any circumstances. deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:48:11 -0700 Reply-To: naturebee@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "J. Waggle" Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <20080925.074811.18910.0@webmail12.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here in Pennsylvania, the Game Commission has adopted an effective means of ridding areas of problem bears. They set a trap, bait it with donuts, capture, and then transport the problem bears to woodland areas where they can become someone else’s problem. So in my woodland area, these problem bears have little fear, and routinely come to the house and bee yard looking for food, electric fences don’t always work on these bears. I have adopted an effective solution to the problem. I keep an apiary at about 50 meters from the house, a motion detector alerts me when an intruder is in the yard. At this time, most of the bears attention is focused on destroying my apple trees, but soon, they will start getting into the beeyard. When they do, my .35 Winchester has done a fine job eliminating problem bears. Under Pennsylvania state law, bears may be killed when caught in the act of destroying property. So all that is then required is to report the kill to the game protector within twelve hours, so they can come get their problem bear. Joe http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:07:10 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had great success using trailers of the "lawn service" type (low to the ground, steel trailers with ramps) http://www.acetrailersales.com/images/lawn_th614ls.jpg fitted with the sort of heavy-duty chain-link fencing one would use to make a "dog run" at a kennel. The "roof" must be reinforced with extra cross-members. The Blue Ridge Mountains are infested with (small!) black bears, so this is very much an east-of-the-Rockies solution. Removing trailer wheels so that the trailer sits flat on the ground and padlocking the ramp/door also kept humans at bay. The advantage of this "passive" approach is that there is no equipment to maintain or break down. If not for the premium price commanded by sourwood honey, this would have never paid off. Sourwood honey requires one to place hives in remote locations where either fires or clear-cuts took place 4 or 5 years ago, so one is placing one's hives smack in the middle of the bears' turf. My reading of the relevant documents does not permit me to exclude bears from the general principle "Thou Shalt Not Kill". **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:05:56 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Peter Dillon Subject: Hives on trailers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi To all, Placing bee colonies on trailers does, can or may lead to complications. Due to the close proximity of the boxes holding the bees. Drifting and robbing may occur. Depending on the season, dealing with these conditions will become difficult - to such an extent that colony manipulation becomes impossible without major disruption. Disease transfer can occur with greater ease. Population decrease noted as inter colony competition is set up. Colonies are often in a heightened defensive mode - where normal colony "investigation" can lead to swirling mass of stinging bees. Know what you are doing, watch for and react to potential negative consequences. A little like barrel feeding - seems a good fix until.... Regards, Peter **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:07:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "=?windows-1252?Q?J._Waggle?=" Subject: Re: Bear Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The heavy-duty chain-link fencing as recommended by a pervious poster is a good alternative, but it is not without its own unique problems. I have seen black bears roll over a large dog kennel type bee enclosure that was perhaps 15 X 15 feet wide. After a remedy was made to secure the enclosure to the ground, I saw evidence that bears were pulling back the heavy wire fence in some places, reaching inside and tipping hives. A bear did eventually gain entry by pulling back the fence enough to squeeze through, and caused damage to hives. Perhaps, a wire cage may work, but IMO would require routine; perhaps weekly inspection of the enclosure. Joe **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:43:36 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Hives on trailers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Due to the close proximity of the boxes > holding the bees, Drifting... Sure, drifting can happen, but one has the same problem with hives on pallets, don't they? My Dad is a big fan of brightly-painted plastic coffee-can lids thumb-tacked to the front of hives, and he keeps his hives in a very tight semi-circular line year-round. > and robbing may occur. When the blooms are over, the hives go back to their yards and are taken off the trailers. Hives working blooms rarely get to robbing. > colony manipulation becomes impossible without > major disruption. Such a major disruption, sometimes I even get stung! :) Seriously, life is too short to work nasty bees. I'd requeen if this became an issue. > Disease transfer can occur with greater ease. For some diseases, that's partly a function of drift, but for other diseases, drift is a very minor component, isn't it? > Colonies are often in a heightened defensive > mode - where normal colony "investigation" can > lead to swirling mass of stinging bees. Wow, got any video? I've not seen or experienced this myself, nor has anyone every mentioned it to me, despite bees being crammed into very close quarters by many backyard beekeepers who keep making splits. I'd be willing to wager that the overwhelming majority of beekeepers in North America keep their hives no more than an arms length away from each other year round. Here's what appears to be the earliest apiary ever found, and the hives were no more than a few inches apart, just about as close as one can get them on a trailer. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20588417/ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:29:32 -0400 Reply-To: bee-quick@bee-quick.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have seen black bears roll over a large dog kennel > type bee enclosure that was perhaps 15 X 15 feet wide. The mass of the trailer itself seemed to have prevented this problem in my experience. > I saw evidence that bears were pulling back the > heavy wire fence That would be a workmanship issue. Welding heavy-gauge wire loops through the fencing and around the structural supports might be the difference. The bent-wire clips are useless - even a St. Bernard can deform them by merely leaning against the fence, so any bear except a cub could do the same. When in doubt, weld that metal, including all the "friction-fit" fence structure components. Bears can't weld worth a darn. Keeping everything tight is important. Bears will play with anything "loose", and they are easily amused. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:18:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The best guards against bears that I've seen have been the one's designed by MT Fish and Wildlife working with beekeepers like Lance Sundberg, and a different design that I saw last year in the Peace River area of Canada. Lance has ~ 90 fenced beeyards in the mountains around Columbus. In our dry climate, even weed zappers don't work well when the soil is dry, vegetation brown. And fencing laid on the ground to improve grounding often gets covered with dry vegetation that grows through it. MT FW&P came up with a different approach. The yard is first fenced with ranch panels. These can be bought at any Farm and Ranch Center. They are welded steel panels, galvanized, designed to be used as quick to set up, rigid panel, movable fences. Each panel is a grid of ~1/4 steel, often 16' long by 4-5' tall. The innoative part is that the ranch panel is then grounded (hammer 10' grounding rod into the ground, attach to the ranch panel). Next, a solar powered electric fence is fastened to the outside of the ranch panel on plastic standoffs ~ 5-7". When the bear approaches, he/she will try to climb over the ranch panel. In doing so, paws and often nose contact the grounded ranch panel, and the full zap from the fence is received, often to the head or belly. This works so well that one trapped a grizzly. A railroad car tipped on a curve near Glacier Park, spilling a pile of grain. FW&P quickly fenced the pile of grain with one of these systems. A hungry grizzly eyed the situation, ambled up an embankment above the pile of grain, took a running leap, and landed inside the fence. Had a great meal, then couldn't get back out without hitting the electric fence. FW&P found a very grumpy bear. Now, the other grizzly proof (brown bear) fence was in Canada. Beekeeper didn't trust electric fences. First installed heavy, 8' tall posts. Then found a ~ 15' wide, heavy welded wire fence material. He mounted this to the posts in a unique way. A strip along the bottom was bent out at 90 degrees, laid flat on the ground, to prevent the bear from squeezing, digging under. Then, the next 8 ft was securely fastened to the posts, and the remaining mesh stood several feet above the posts, and was not fastened to anything. If a bear tried to climb, he/she had easy climbing for the first 8 feet, then the loose part of the mesh flexed outward, and the bear couldn't get over it, often falling off. Beekeeper says he's never had a bear defeat this setup. Both of these fence systems are top of the line in terms of reliably keeping bears out AND unfortunately in price. But, should still be cheaper than a reefer. Jerry **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:41:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Both of these fence systems are top of the line in terms of reliably keepi= ng bears out AND unfortunately in price. But=2C should still be cheaper tha= n a reefer." =20 I would add that it depends on the usable life of these systems as to wethe= r they are cheaper or not. A reefer should last a long time=2C with very b= asic maintance. I have all but given up on electric fences. The available= chargers don't put out enough voltage to discourage the most persitant bea= rs=2C unless you want to pay alot of $$ for one. Solar chargers don't last= long enough to justify the high price of them. I have found that if you p= ut up a fence with poly strands=2C that the bears will often just walk thro= ugh them...so I put poultry netting around the outside to keep them from do= ing that. The electric sheep fence being sold works well=2C but is easily = grounded out by growing vegitation=2C so requires lots of mowing=2C and I j= ust don't think it is high enough=2C but that's just MHO. =20 There are no easy answers=2C and certainly no cheap ones when dealing with = bears. J Waggle has the right idea=2C but you can't kill'em all=2C althoug= h at times I would like to. =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5= 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:20:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jerry Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim said: I have all but given up on electric fences. I agree with the comments that the cheap electric fences won't do the trick, both in terms of service life and in terms of deterring bears. The system described by MT FW&P does work and holds up for a long time, but it is pricey. The Canadian tall fence eliminates the problem of failure of solar power or fence zappers. Remember, most of our MT sites and those up in the Peace River area don't have line power, so solar-electric or a passive fence are the only options. Keep in mind, our beekeepers use electric fences on yards of 30-50 colonies, not a couple of hives. And, these are not the chicken wire, ACE hardware $30 specials. These are top of the line units, used by ranchers to power miles of fence, known as weed choppers. Jerry Jerry **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:15:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jerry =20 The fencers I have tried include the 50-75 mile varitey=2C put out by Parma= rk=2C and also Zebra=2C an about half a dozen other brands. The problem is= they peak at about 5000-6000 volts. In order to deter bears=2C you need t= o be in the 7500-10=2C000 volt range. The lesser voltage will deter the le= ss presistant bears=2C but won't stop the really persistant bears=2C which = I have....unless I can get a bead on him...The solar charger was one made b= y Parmark=2C top of the line for solar fencers=2C an it lasted just over th= e warrenty period=2C about 2 years. Gotta be a better way. =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part= of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:28:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Juanse Barros Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It is good that we do not have bears in Chile, however I will love to know if you take the beehives all the time to the same places. -- Juanse Barros J. APIZUR S.A. Carrera 695 Gorbea - CHILE +56-45-271693 08-3613310 http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/ juanseapi@gmail.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:13:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Brian Ames Subject: info on imported honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am looking for info online that could be used to explain to customers why cheap honey around $1.00 a pound in drums is likely from outside the USA. Can anyone point me to any online references which explains the current honey wholesale market and also gives some information concerning imports and prices OUS. I did some looking around and did not come up with much. Thanks for any help on this..... **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:52:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's interesting. I wonder whether that means that drifting will tend not to occur unless you put more than 4 identical hives in a row. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:04:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have more or less given up using sheets of foundation and find that: 1) the bees produce a variety of sizes of worker comb ranging usually from about 5.0 in the middle of the brood nest to maybe 5.4 on the periphery (at Lat 50 N). Occasionally some 4.9 is found. Probably about 5.2 would be typical. The last time I measured some boughten foundation it was 5.7. 2) the slabs of brood seem much healthier with far fewer misses. 3) I am beginning to notice in some hives that the bees are not uniform in size, and 4) the hives with different sizes of bee in them seem to be doing better than those which have more uniform bees. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:04:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Hives on trailers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 26/09/2008 02:51:14 GMT Standard Time, pdillon1@ROGERS.COM writes: Placing bee colonies on trailers does, can or may lead to complications. Very true. Ameliorating factors may include painting hives distinctive colours; using bees attuned to this style of living; and using hives that can be accessed with less public disruption. Or in other words: if you are using package-derived bees in identical Langstroths placed cheek by jowl you are asking for trouble. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 19:44:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <7eb65cc10809261228m26420068qa1871ec6cf9fd05e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have my beehives in permanant yards. But I do move them if I can't deter= the bear=2C as he will just keep coming back until they are all dead. =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn =9310 hidden secrets=94 from Jamie= . http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5= 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:36:13 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: info on imported honey In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for info online that could be used to explain to=A0 customers = why cheap honey=A0 around $1.00 a pound in drums is likely from outside the USA= .=20 =A0 Reply: Brian, simply=A0ask them could anyone in USA sell for $1.00 a pound with th= e price of gas the way it is, plus labor rates for wages for self and emplo= yess, and throw in utilities used, rents, maintenance work=A0etc, plus numb= er of trips to get a barrel/drum of honey. Then see if they simply can keep= costs to under a $1.00 a pound........or want to live instead with a respe= ctable price. It's really nothing hard except where for some reason cheap h= oney is being sold...........they/you might=A0 want to wonder why? Sell fas= t at cheap price or sell for higher...........why is it afraid for some to = sell higher? Also, are we a dumping ground here in USA, does Europe do same= ? Just some added questions to ask your customers..... =A0 D =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:31:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: David MacFawn Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, how do you get the bees to draw out the comb parallel to the frame and not across frames without the foundation? What is your success rate getting the bees to draw comb within a frame? Do you use a starter strip? **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:21:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim I don't know how to put this in an email without sounding condescending, but I'm not trying to be. If the best you have tried is Parmak and Zebra, then you really haven't used a good fencer. In the world of electric fencing, they're the only ones telling you they're the best. They are like buying an $100. watch instead of a $20. one, when you're looking for a Rolex. They have their place, but shouldn't be viewed as top of the line. I my opinion you need to go to the experts. Companies that design a fencer to withstand a mob of sheep hitting the line at same time, not just a single animal. We try to train our bears with a Gallagher or Speedrite fencer made in New Zealand and then put on a Solar Parmak 6V or 12V. Shooting a bear, just means another one will move into the area and you start over. Give them a good jolt to begin with and as long as there is something ticking through the lines, they rarely challenge it. The bonus is, boars especially will keep others out of their territory. I had a hired man who would check the Parmaks by gripping the wire, rather carrying a fence tester. A favorite trick was to grab the wire and then touch somebody as they went by or were tying down the truck. Once he didn't realize that I had swapped out the Parmak for a Speedrite HB12, because the former needed service. Poor guy couldn't let go of the wire and wet himself before his co-worker could stop laughing and turn off the fence. He had no strength in is upper body for the rest of the day. With the limited day length up here in the spring and fall, we throw out the Parmak batteries. We have a place called Battery World that carries a battery virtually the same size, but with twice the capacity. Dave Tharle Ardmore, AB Canada Thankfully haven't caught a grizzly, but did get a coyote once that was more afraid of the fence once he was inside than me. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 22:29:03 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You will never get small cell foundation drawn out right, without following= basic parameters for drawing comb specific for worker bees. You follow tha= t which most do for honeyproduction/drone size and you will fail every time= ! =A0 This is why HSC fully drawn is on the market for you types. But still you h= ave to follow the basic guidelines for easy using. But it changes the time = frame from a few years to just months too! =A0 D =0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 05:31:48 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When a comb is simply old and dark and there is no suspicion of disease I simply use a hive tool or knife to remove it from the frame leaving maybe half an inch (more in the corners) to guide them. Otherwise I use starter strips, which average about an inch deep, but are cut on the slant so one end is deeper than the other and these are placed alternately so a deep end is next to a shallow end. I often use the thin foundation supplied for cut comb to make the strips. It introduces the least amount of other bees' wax (and, we now learn, chemical contaminants) into the hive. The one time I use a full sheet of foundation is when doing a Bailey change. One placed centrally in the new brood box which is placed over the old provides a bridge that queen and workers can use to get to the upper storey. The queen goes up and starts laying in the new comb even as it is being drawn, so keen she is on fresh comb to lay in. After a few days the beekeeper, having ascertained that she is there, can put the queen excluder between the 2 boxes, removing the lower one after 3 weeks, taking with it some sealed drone brood with its complement of varroa. I have found that a good time to make a Bailey change is when the first oilseed rape is appearing in the fields nearby, so the farmer, not me, feeds them. I have normally had no trouble with combs straying off course except occasionally in my top bar hive, which has, of course, no frames. When persuaded back on course with a gently applied hive tool the comb resumes the straight and narrow. An important factor in working hives without using foundation is that the hives must be LEVEL as the bees use gravity to guide them. A spirit level is part of my kit as well as a few wooden wedges to make adjustments. On the odd occasion when I haven't been able to find the level among the junk in the back of the car I have improvised with a bottle of drink. Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:47:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Daniel Dempsey Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James look at one of these. http://www.patriotchargers.com/p30.htm Will make your arm ache to your shoulder and throw a 3/8 inch spark Don't ask how i know!! Dan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:36:57 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "deknow@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit we also do not use foundation. we did (as dee suggested) regress using HSC, then all foundationless from there. as chris said, the hives must be level. we don't use starter strips, but glue "jumbo craft sticks" (bit popsicle sticks from walmart or michaels crafts) into the top bar groove all the way across the frame. this takes 2 full sticks and a partial (about 3 cents per frame). an untested plan is to, when there is a full box of comb to cull, just put the whole box over a pan, and put glass ontop in the sun. since the comb guides are wood (and glued in, not waxed in), they should be all ready to use after the wax melts off. when i want to add a box of empty frames, i try to do it in the brood nest. 2 brood frames in the center of otherwise foundationless frames right above the brood nest seems to work well. an empty box on top will often result in the bees building comb from the bottom of the frames (which doesn't work very well). the 2 full frames act as a "ladder", and the bees seem happy to expand out from there pretty well. we showed our county bee club one of our hives last weekend. what i think surprised people the most was the drawing of foundationless frames (which was in progress, as this was a fairly recent split). without the foundation to divide the bees onto either side of the foundation (where they draw horizontally in one direction), the cluster of bees hangs off the bottom of the comb, drawing both sides at once. we did photograph an entire hive a few weeks ago (both sides of each comb). this hive was used to hold equipment against wax moths, so there is plenty of room in there. a good goldenrod flow has been on, and i haven't checked this hive to see what is going on, but this will show you some foundationless comb (some better, some worse), interspersed with some HSC. http://picasaweb.google.com/Dean.Ramona/VirtualLeafHiveSept152008 deknow **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:58:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <36D5E5CCC2904251B6F31D4D2CCCFF4B@Office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "I don't know how to put this in an email without sounding condescending= =2C but I'm not trying to be." =20 Well=2C those fencers are all great and dandy=2C but=2C most of us have a b= udget. I wouldn't be able to buy just one=2C as I set up new yards every y= ear=2C and given the unpredictablity of where a bear is going to be at any = given time=2C it would seem prudant to have one of these on each new yard. = They are also prone to the same failures as any other equipment.=20 " If the best you have tried is Parmak and Zebra=2C then you really haven't= used a good fencer."=20 =20 =20 I think I stated that they weren't strong enough=2C and that the "good" one= s were too expensive. " Shooting a bear=2C just means another one will move into the area and yo= u start over."=20 =20 =20 All bears are indivuals. By getting rid of the really persistant bear=2C y= ou do indeed create an open territory=2C but chances are good you won't get= another bear that is that persistant. But the real problem we are having = isn't just a few bears=2C we have "many" bears. Too many for our area to s= upport without unreasonable crop damage. That is the fault of our DEC=2C a= nd their failure to control the population in a reasonable manner. " I ha= d a hired man who would check the Parmaks by gripping the wire=2C rather c= arrying a fence tester. A favorite trick was to grab the wire and then tou= ch somebody as they went by or were tying down the truck. Once he didn't r= ealize that I had swapped out the Parmak for a Speedrite HB12=2C because th= e former needed service. Poor guy couldn't let go of the wire and wet hims= elf before his co-worker could stop laughing and turn off the fence. He ha= d no strength in is upper body for the rest of the day." =20 =20 Well=2C that's funny=2C but=2C it could just have easily killed him. That'= s why they make fence testors=2C so this unnessacery risk can be avoided. = I have seen lambs tangled up in electric fences die this way. " With the li= mited day length up here in the spring and fall=2C we throw out the Parmak= batteries. We have a place called Battery World that carries a battery vi= rtually the same size=2C but with twice the capacity." =20 I use the deep cycle marine battries. They work well and hold a good charg= e. You also deal with different bears than we do. Black bears respond wel= l to electric fences=2C the only time there is a real problem is when you g= et the one's that will go through anything to get a meal. =20 Jim =20 =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ =20 _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part= of your life. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:53:05 -0700 Reply-To: deelusbybeekeeper@yahoo.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dee Lusby Subject: Re: Drawing small cell foundation In-Reply-To: <20080927.083657.22971.0@webmail13.dca.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deknow wrote:we did (as dee suggested) regress using HSC, then all foundationless from there. Also as Chris pointed out it seems 5.7mm is common now in UK for worker siz= e and quite different from 1800s sizing wise. This is what makes for the pr= oblems in drawing uniform naturally sized comb in UK as bees can only shift= size .2mm to .3mm maximum each time and then to uniformly get whole area d= oing same takes much time, and that if all going for worker size and not st= andard honeysuper size that then ends up in the broodnest. =A0 Until spheres of influence for natural size combs are wanted again, basical= ly it will not happen until someone actually wants to do it and gets others= in a general area doing same. This is the way things got bigger and is way= it will have to go down as history must be repeated, unfortunately! =A0 D --- On Sat, 9/27/08, deknow@netzero.com wrote: =A0=0A=0A=0A **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 21:42:11 -0400 Reply-To: james.fischer@gmail.com Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Fischer Subject: Re: info on imported honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > explain to customers why cheap honey around > $1.00 a pound in drums is likely from outside the USA. There is a more general rule of thumb that applies here: Food from China, that isn't Chinese food, isn't FOOD at all! Here's the story of the day on that subject from the Chicago Tribune: http://tinyurl.com/4rzyj4 or http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-coffee-recall_satsep27,0, 1265148.story But the specific answer to your question can be found in the "price per ton" data. Excel Spreadsheets, including 2007 data: http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/Sugar/Data.htm For data from 2006 and earlier: http://apitrack.com/noticias/honeyreport052006prices_en_open.htm The 2006 data above may be much easier to use, in that it shows prices paid for each nation's honey, in prices per ton. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 22:45:54 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That's interesting. I wonder whether that means that drifting will > tend not to occur unless you put more than 4 identical hives in a row. Hi Chris and All: I keep all my hives on long stands of five in a row. I find them easy to pick up with the boom (slide hives together, one ratchet strap per stand, stands are 8 feet (2.4 m) long so load is allowable width on truck, stand feet go just inside rails on the truck, so only the last stand on truck and trailer need to be strapped down to the bed unless we are stacking stands) We can move 100 hives per load without stacking. It seems to me that if one assumes that bees could count up to four, they would have to start counting from one side of the stand or the other. It would be likely then that a stand of five would not be a problem, unless the bees always counted from one side. Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 04:32:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Chris Slade Subject: Re: Honeybees can count MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 28/09/2008 03:55:20 GMT Standard Time, sandler@AURACOM.COM writes: I keep all my hives on long stands of five in a row. I find them easy to pick up with the boom Do you find that the hives at one end of the row tend to be heavier than the other; or that the centre one is heaviest; or that weight is evenly distributed between them? Chris **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 09:41:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Honeybees can count?(1KB)? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Everett [mailto:everett@beehavin.com] Sent: Sun 2008.09.28 08:58 I'm also interested in this question. I have the same arrangement and I also have pallets with hives facing in all four directions. I'm curious about the weight distribution for pallets as I've noticed that the = colonies that most in the flight path tend to be heavier; perhaps due to more foragers accumulated from drifting. I have not noticed any pattern of weight distribution for the "5 in a row" arrangement. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:14:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim "I think I stated .... "good" ones were too expensive." Your original post said nothing about price or budget. You were lamenting about the power you required. You even refered to the Parmak as "top of the line for solar fencers". Had there been indication that this was simply a management decision, I'm sure some of us wouldn't have bothered to reply. --------- "most of us have a budget." Been in this business for 35 years, the last 25 as our sole source of income. Know a thing or two about budgets and making choices. --------- "it would seem prudant to have one of these on each new yard." Yes. You must run them on a new location for a month or so, and some yards every spring. ---------- "They are also prone to the same failures as any other equipment." No. Just like an excellent watch, you get what you pay for. With proper maintence we average a problem (not ususally a complete failure), every three-four years out of a 15 units. Finally had to replaced one that was twenty thre years old because the components are not longer available. ---------- "the real problem we are having isn't just a few bears, we have "many" bears." I feel for you on this one. We went through this in the 80's when the wildlife biologist for this region felt the need to close the season. After 5 years it was determined we not only had the highest bear population for an agricultural area in the province (surpassing the Peace River area), but in North America. One July night, I had shooters at 7 locations. Tipped 5 in 4 yards. Was sitting or had someone waiting for a bear every morning and evening, every day from about mid June until the 20th of October that year. EVERYDAY. Woke up one night to find a bear on top of a truck loaded for the next morning. That's when I learned how to fence for bears. The next year was a hell of a lot more relaxing and profitable. Fortunately Fish & Wildlife saw the light and opened the season again because of all the complaints they received. Their field officers were as busy as I was. I'm told our population is back down to about 1 per every 2 sq miles. ---------- "I use the deep cycle marine battries." Good choice. Again, not all are created equal. Price is not an indicater though, you have to the try different brands avaiable in your region. We've have found some will cycle many more times than others. ---------- "You also deal with different bears than we do." Quess I'll have to take your word on that one. By the way you have a nice website. Dave Tharle Ardmore, AB Canada _________________________________________________________________ **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:50:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: John & Christy Horton Subject: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven bee following this closely, buthave motion detectors attached to loud aloarms etc been tried? hard to believe they havent because I am sure that seeing a beeyard destroyed would kick in the creative processes. John Horton **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:11:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: =?UTF-8?Q?Kirk_Jones?= Subject: bear fences for north Michigan that work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for all the ideas and links to different chargers. We started getting huge increases in bear damage about 5 years ago. Within a couple of years we were losing about 250 hives a year. We tried to get help from the state and that was a total waste of time in Michigan. The state is promoting the bear population. Putting up fences turned it around. You can only go out and sit waiting for bears with your rifle so many nights getting bit by mosquitoes, etc. ha ha. Here's what we did: We put up three to five wire fences with tee posts and the newer style black plastic wire holders that don't break with the snow load and energize it with the IntelliCharger that we picked up at Premier One. http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=24359&cat_id=43 They put out about 9,000 plus volts. The beauty of this system for us is the charger batteries. We buy 9 volt gel batteries that last the whole season and the unit fits into a deep box that I set inside the fence. One could put a solar unit on it that is available, but why bother? The largest gel battery is about $35 when I buy a bunch of them. That's not too bad. We buy the larger 165 AH battery. You'll get another year on the batteries with solar, but the cost outweighs the benefits and they will attract attention. I started out with the 20B model, but have switch to the newer bigger brother. More joules! http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=379&cat_id=44 This keeps out most black bears and the costs is bearable.(couldn't resist that one) Sometimes we put barbed on the lower wire just about 4 inches from the ground to keep em from digging under the fence. Sometimes I put only two smooth above that. If the bears give more pressure, than we'll add another wire or two. Maybe even a barbed wire. I build them so I can step over(step high or else) A good ground is very important. I get 2,000 more volts between the ground wire and hot, than I get between the actual dirt ground and hot wire. First wire....about 4 inches high. Second wire....about 8 inches above the ground Third wire.....right at crotch level Add more to suit. This simple setup keeps out most bears. Be sure to weedspray with roundup. No weeds. No weeds. I also like the black and white braided poly that is about as thick as a pencil for the top wire and gate lines. Deer and snowmobilers can see them. Premier also carries this. Get the better grade. You can weave the ends back on themselves through the braid and they hold well. Kirk from Sleeping Bear Farms www.sleepingbearfarms.com **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:40:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Dave Cushman Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris > Do you find that the hives at one end of the row tend to be heavier than the > other; I have kept both five in a row (separate stands spaced about four feet apart) and pallets of four (one each direction) on one particular site at different times. There were differences between hives, but no pattern was ever established apart from the rows in the open being heavier than rows under or adjacent to trees and hedges. The prevailing wind was perpendicular to the rows and came from the direction of the trees. -- Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY http://melliferabees.net Email: dave.cushman@lineone.net Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01 Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1 **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:48:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Jim Smith Subject: Bear Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To paraphrase what I am reading here about using reefers or boxed trailers for bear exclusion: 1. Works but be carful about temps inside. 2. Fences work better 3. Build properly designed fence with good ground and sturdy fencing, even using stock panels 4. Smaller trailers may work with full enclosure I still wonder if a 'persistant' bear could gain entry into a reefer? And--Thanks for the feed back so far. Very helpful. Jim >From the State of Jefferson **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 14:01:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: "Peter L. Borst" Subject: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Inspection program's goal to create hive registry stirs fears of fees, bee-nappers By RICK KARLIN, Capitol bureau Click byline for more stories by writer. First published: Monday, September 22, 2008 ALBANY -- It's been more than a year since New York's agriculture officials started rebuilding their bee inspection program after finding it riddled with conflicts of interest, and after it was stung by an unemployment insurance scam. But as another honey-making and pollination season draws to a close, the effort is drawing criticism from some beekeepers, who view the state's stepped-up efforts to police them as a major bureaucratic bumble. So far, only 9 of 38 newly created inspector slots have been filled. Moreover, beekeepers fear the state's plan to compile a beehive registry could be a prelude to new fees, or even serve as a roadmap for thieves. While talk of ethical conflicts, bee rustlers and bureaucracy may sound strange to the uninitiated, New York's aging and shrinking beekeeper population has battled the state for years. "It's unfortunate when politics and biology mix -- and you have probably the biggest mess of politics and biology in New York State of any state that I'm aware of," said Kim Flottum, editor of Bee Culture, an Ohio-based publication that follows the beekeeping industry nationwide. The buzz about bee or apiary inspections dates back more than a year, after the state Department of Agriculture and Markets -- following the advice of the state Ethics Commission -- concluded that inspectors shouldn't own their own hives. Beekeepers had long complained that some inspectors used their positions for unfair advantage by ordering the destruction of competitors' hives and by poaching the best spots to build colonies. To avoid these conflicts, the state tried to hire inspectors who had no hives of their own -- only to discover that, other than beekeepers, there are few people willing to take on the seasonal inspection job, which involves traveling through woods and farm fields, enduring stings and physical labor -- all for $16.45 to $20.53 per hour. "We're talking about a very small universe of people," said Jessica Chittenden, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Agriculture and Markets. Chittenden said only a dozen inspector slots would be filled this year. The pool of inspectors shrank even more last year when some were caught collecting unemployment checks when they were working during the off-season. Adding to the recent turmoil, though, was the way beekeepers learned of the new registry. "There was no real consultation with the industry, none whatsoever," said Bob Brachmann, a western New York beekeeper. While the law has a confidentiality clause, it also calls for signs to be posted, with the owner's ID number at the hives. Even so, apiarists like Brachmann worry that those locations may get out. "There's a long history of stealing bees," said May Berenbaum, a University of Illinois entomology professor, who explained that beehives are valued for both their honey and their ability to pollinate crops. "It's yet another reason that beekeepers aren't anxious to be 'on the grid.' " Others fear that inexperienced inspectors may err in identifying maladies such as mites or American Foulbrood, a spore that has wreaked havoc since the 1930s. "I'm a gardener, but nobody comes around from the government and says, 'Yeah, that's blight on your tomatoes,' " said Harry Whitehead, a commercial apiarist in Allegany County. "The whole thing, from my perspective, is more empire-building than productive," he added. Not all beekeepers oppose the new law. The state Farm Bureau supports it, hoping it may help slow the decline in New York's bee production. "We've seen a lot of hive dropoffs," said Bureau spokesman Peter Gregg. State officials estimate there are about 1,600 apiarists, or beekeepers, in the state, a steep decline from decades ago. About 80 percent are hobbyists. Nationally, the number of managed hives has fallen from 5 million in the 1940s to 2.5 million today, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. New York isn't the only state where inspections have been controversial. Beekeepers in Ohio took a case to the U.S. Supreme Court three decades ago, said Flottum, and Arizona abandoned its inspections a few years back in light of protests. In California, inspections were turned over to the counties for similar reasons. But New York's situation is particularly contentious. "There's some real distrust out there," said Brachmann. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:28:54 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris, Everett and All: > Do you find that the hives at one end of the row tend to be heavier than > the > other; or that the centre one is heaviest; or that weight is evenly > distributed between them? I do not have records that would constitute data, but my impression is the same as Everett's: there does not seem to be any pattern of weight distribution. That is after 30 years of using this system. Nor does there seem to be any pattern of spring survival being better at the ends or middle. That would be very noticeable after cleaning off the spring deadouts and before we restock all the stands when we make our first move into blueberries. In addition, I feel that when hives swarm, supercede, or I requeen using a cell my mating success is acceptable to me (most seem to return to the hive, no good records to quantify however). However, when the stands are arranged in a line (each stand has a different directional orientation, boxes are a range of many colours and lack of colours) I do think that the end hives of the end stands gather some drifting bees. If we unload on both sides of the truck along a north sheltered treeline the more southerly line of hives seems to benefit from drifting bees in the early spring. These winter yards are often very heavily stocked with hives (often over a hundred hives). Stan **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Bear Question In-Reply-To: <49BFC47605E548D887573D57B5B07345@jimji6rjlhoevb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Jim & All, As a lifelong semi driver I maybe should comment. > I still wonder if a 'persistant' bear could gain entry into a reefer? I doubt if the old style all steel reefer but most of these have been cut up for steel by now. I doubt an all steel ocean container. If the new style with light sheet metal with quarter inch pop rivets I would think they could if they wanted to. Most of these are aluminum which would tear easy. Using a reefer might be OK if you plan on simply pulling into a location and leaving forever. Its hard to go through scales with old reefers and sitting in a field is hard on old equipment. The most knowledgeable beeks I know on bear control are the Wootens ( California). I would give Shannon or Glenda a call and ask their advice. The Wootens have been running bees in bear country all their lives. A picture of their giant bear traps has been in ABJ. I believe Lance Sundberg would also provide information on his methods if asked. If you want to contact either email me direct and I will provide phone numbers. With the methods provided by members of BEE-L on the way they control bears and perhaps from Lance or Shannon I would simply build a fence as they build. Once built then unless a bear tears the fence up all you need to do is replace the batteries at regular intervals. With today's high prices paid for steel and aluminum I do not believe buying a reefer would be cheaper than a fence. Not even close. 40 foot ocean containers are running $1600 -2000 plus tax & delivery in our area. If the war in Iraq ends the price of steel will drop to pre war levels exactly like it did when the Nam war ended. Then your 40 foot ocean container would be worth half as much if you went out of beekeeping and wanted to try to get your investment back. An ocean container would fit the bill as no tires ,brakes or lights to worry about but you need set on 4-6 inches of gravel (not cheap) * and* at least 120 feet of clearing in order to set or pickup the container. Lots of work in remote areas of heavy brush. I can't really believe you are still considering a reefer. Pickup & delivery of reefers in our area by semi drivers is running over $2 a mile and the reefer has to be able to pass a scale inspection. Must have current plates. bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:13:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: James Plaisted Subject: Re: The biggest mess of politics and biology of any state In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter =20 Interesting article=2C but the bee inspection program is the least of NYS's= problems. They best start addressing the bear problem if they want to kee= p honeybees in NY. You can only afford to lose so many hives before you gi= ve up....and DEC at this point doesn't seem to care much. =20 Jim =20 =20 http://www.northernqueens.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5= 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008= **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:43:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Honeybees can count In-Reply-To: <984812655D694962AD8DB70939E6687E@AM1610E1202A> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Stan & All, I do believe that end of row hives do seem to collect drift bees I also have an hypothesis that certain hives for whatever reasons seem to draw bees from other hives. Perhaps the queen has stronger pheromones or perhaps the foragers seem to like the hive better. I base my hypothesis on working hives in spring and noting the amount of brood in a hive. Then I at times find a huge number of bees a few weeks later which could not have possibly came from the current queen. It is my opinion that many times bees in a "dink" hive tend to go forage and return to a strong hive and keep returning until a member. Also when a hive becomes queenless and does not raise a new queen most the bees drift to other hives until almost no bees are in the queenless hive. Part of my success in beekeeping has came from trying to keep only 1 and 2 year old queens. It is my opinion that Italian queens produce in the first year but many times carniolan queens do poorly the first season but do quite well the second year. What are others on the lists opinions? bob **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu From: Bob Harrison Subject: Re: Apiguard and screened bottoms In-Reply-To: <092420081832.22643.48DA87C100007F210000587322230703629B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B9D01040999@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill asks: What do you guys do to close off bottoms? I do not use screened bottoms Bill as all my hives are on four way pallets. I have considered trying to make a few pallets with a screened bottom. Randy uses a boom loader and screened bottoms. I think he said once he uses a special board he made to close the bottom. The secret to apigard in my opinion is to use three 25 ml doses at exactly 7 day intervals and treat for varroa spring and fall. I alternate between apigard ( fall usually) and miteaway 2. ( spring and at times fall) Once a year only with either miteaway 2 or apigard is pushing the issue *unless* you run a Russian or varroa tolerant bee which allows you to not treat as much. I test and decide if to treat both times ( spring & fall) but since I went to soft treatments I have needed to treat. I have yards which I do not treat but my high production prolific Italians need treatment. Once a year with miteaway 2 has made me able to drop my menthol treatment for tracheal mites in my Italians (but the treatment I used only cost about fifty cents a hive so not a big deal.) Formic is very effective against the tracheal mite which my prolific Italians are susceptible to. bob Ps since the internet beekeeping lists have become popular I hear every year of beeks which have lost all their bees trying to quit all treatments as put forth on the *other* list. I heard of a beek last month which dropped his treatments for AFB. last i heard he was burning all his new frames from 35 hives and scorching his boxes and starting over. He saw the foulbrood but followed the advice from the other list that his hygienic bees could clean the problem up. **************************************************** * General Information About BEE-L is available at: * * http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm * ****************************************************