Received: from [169.226.1.21] by relay.internode.net (SMTPD32-3.02) id A7A4133C00FE; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:01:40 -0700 Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1290; Tue, 12 Nov 96 15:02:29 EST Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 2372; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:02:22 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at ALBNYVM1 (1.8b)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9607C" To: "W. Allen Dick" X-UIDL: 382 Status: U ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 01:44:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Alcantar Subject: two queen colonies Hi Everyone, I am new to beekeeping and this list as well. I want to try a two queen colony but am not sure whichi method to use. Does anyone have any suggestions. Looking for a simple way od doing it. Thank You David Alcantar ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 01:56:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Alcantar Subject: . "INFO REFCARD" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: The format and value of BEE-L logs At 08:20 7/12/96 EDT, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: Aaron Morris >Subject: The format and value of BEE-L logs >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >No one has commented (pro or con) about splitting the BEE-L Logs into >weekly vs monthly. The weekly logs certainly are of a more manageable >size. I have split all the '96 logs into weekly logs and am considering >doing so for the '95 logs also, but before I go to the trouble I thought >I'd ask for a general consensus to see if the group feels this is a >beneficial task. > >As I see it, the PROS for weekly logs is that they are smaller and more >manageable (easier to download and easier to peruse - some of the >monthly logs got so large that my editor couldn't even handle them). >The CON however are that there are more logs to examine if one is >searching for a particular piece of information. If someone is interested >in the discussion for say June '96, there are four logs rather than one. > >It seems to me that the weak point for the logs is that there is no >index of where to look to find a particular piece of information. >LISTSERV does have search capabilities, but I don't know of anyone who >has mastered the possibilities. > >So, my request is for comments regarding weekly vs monthly logging. >Shall I bother with splitting the '95 logs into a weekly format? Once >split, LISTSERV will offer and serve up the weekly logs. Prior to '95 >the logs were small enough that I wouldn't bother splitting them. Is >this a worthwhile exercise? How valuable are the logs? How often do >subscribers review them? Is anyone using LISTSERV search capabilities? > >Perhaps subscribers should respond to me directly to save bandwidth on >BEE-L and then I will summarize responses and report back late next week >or the week thereafter. > >Thinking, always thinking, >Aaron Morris > Hello, Aaron, Although I am not a heavy user of this function of the BEE-L, I would vote for the weekly logs. It certainly would help in locating items for research (less to have to download and wade through). I know you're, probably, looking at a lot of work, but I'm sure it would be well worth it and greatly appreciated by everyone. Thank you for your hard work. Cheers, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:39:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: Copy of: Mid-size Mammals At 02:39 7/12/96 EDT, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: "Kevin D. Parsons" <102372.624@CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Copy of: Mid-size Mammals >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >After a week away I returned to find the grass in front of all 4 of my hives >matted >down and the ground scratched up quite a bit. I assume I have been having >nocturnal visits by skunks, raccoons or possums. I have not seen the visitors. >I understand that this can make the bees more agressive to work, but is it >likely >cause a serious reduction in the bee population? > >Has anyone had success in dealing this problem? I am thinking of placing the >hives on 2 concrete blocks, which would get them about 16 inches off the ground >in the hope that this will expose the underparts of the animals to more stings. >I've heard of putting cayenne pepper or boards of nails in front of the hives. >Do >these really work? What about attaching a semi-circle of fence around the front >of >the hive? A full animal proof fence sounds like too much trouble. If I were >sure it >was not a skunk I'd try trapping the animal. I don't even want to think of >catching a skunk. >I'm sure glad we don't have bears around here. > >Any ideas would be appreciated, especially if they have worked for you. > >Thanks, > >Kevin D. Parsons >Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA > IMHO, the best thing to use is carpet tack strips. They're not very expensive. Cut and place them in such a way that you form a "pad" of them, around the entrance, about a foot out from the hive. Be sure to arrange your "pad" in such a way as to keep them from coming from the side, as well. Drive long nails through them, into the ground, to keep them from going anywhere. I guarantee that this works. Just you be careful not to step on them when you're working your hive. Regards, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 11:53:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Robertson Subject: Fighting bees I've been observing some behavior that I am having trouble figuring out. There are many instances of two workers seeming to become tangled with each other at the hive entrance. One will then drag the other onto the ground where they seem to wrestle in the grass for a few minutes. Then either they disengage and both fly away, or one will carry the other off. I don't see why two hive mates should be fighting. Any ideas what's happening? Defense from robbers? Elimination of sick bees? Just getting tngled up? Thanks you have all been a big help with previous questions. Sorry to seem such a "newbee". Hopefully I'll be in a position to help others someday soon. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:25:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Genta Subject: Re: Extra hole in supers Greetings Ann, I manage about 15 to 25 hives here in Greenville, S.C. I would not want to be without my upper entrance holes in the supers. Our main honey flow is in the spring (tulip poplar) and ther are times when I have to put on two supers at a time. The extra hole allows the bees to bring the nectar right to the honey supers instead of having to bring it all the way up from the brrod nest. My hives brought in five supers each, and I run brood chambers with a super used for food storage for the queen. The upper entrances are used as much as the main entrance. The upper holes do have guard bees there to protect them from being robbed. Just try putting your hand over the hole. I have not seen any drawbacks from using the upper entrances. It also helps in ventilation during the winter months. Steve Genta POLLENDOLL@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 18:39:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dennis A. Meeks" Subject: Re: Fighting bees > Any ideas what's happening? Defense from robbers? Elimination of >sick bees? Just getting tngled up? It is a natural instinct for bees to protect their hive from intruders. While bees will allow drift, bees bringing honey into their hive by bees from other hives,they will defend their hive to the death if necessary. Bees coming into the hive when challenged will offer a taste of necter they are carrying and through bee dance language will indicate the source of that necter. The worker bee spends its life gathering necter and especially when there are no floral sources available they are not too particular where they get it..that includes a neighboring hive. Should they be successful in gaining entrance and return home, it wouldn't be long before full scale robbing of one hive by another resulted. So, the guard bees defend their hive from intruders. Should you ever see full blown robbing, close down the hive under attack, and put some grass into the entrance reducer...by the time the bees have removed the grass hopefully the onslought will be over. Keep a close watch because the hive under attack was probably the weaker of the two hives. At another time, check the hive for a laying queen and disease, but make sure all exposed honey is covered to prevent another episode of robbing. A damp cloth over the frames of the open hive, allowing only the frame your working on to be exposed, helps. You can stack removed supers ontop of your innercover with the outercover on the top. Best of luck Dennis Meeks DAMeeks@noblecan.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:24:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank Battistolo Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder >At 12:30 PM 7/10/96 +0000, you wrote: >>Noticed for sale this year a new way to feed bees. >>It's called baggie feeding. >>BM sells them. They look like a cut down honey super. >> >>Does the baggie feeder have a bottom? >> >>Dave Verville >>Plaistow, NH >>mvdfv@mvcss.att.com >> >Hi Dave > >I started using the baggie feeder this year and I will never use anything >else again. It is a small super about 3". An empty shallow super will work >just as well. There are a few things I had to learn the hard way. Put a >queen excluder or something under the bags if you intend to manipulate the >hive while feeding. Use only heavey duty zip lock type freezer bags and make >sure they are completely sealed before they are put on the hive. Leave as >little air as is possiable when sealing. Dribble a little of the syrup on >the bees so they will come up and find it. > >After you get the hang of it, the baggie feeder is a great way to feed. > >Frank Humphrey >beekeeper@worldmet.att.net > Hi Frank If the bags are completly sealed,how do the bees get the syrup. Frank Battistolo frankb@cyberstore. ca frankb@cyberstore.ca Just another beekeeper... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 00:26:01 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Fighting bees At 03:53 PM 7/14/96 +0000, you wrote: > I've been observing some behavior that I am having trouble figuring out. > There are many instances of two workers seeming to become tangled >with each other at the hive entrance. One will then drag the other onto the >ground where they seem to wrestle in the grass for a few minutes. Then >either they disengage and both fly away, or one will carry the other off. I >don't see why two hive mates should be fighting. > Any ideas what's happening? Defense from robbers? Elimination of >sick bees? Just getting tngled up? > Thanks you have all been a big help with previous questions. Sorry >to seem such a "newbee". Hopefully I'll be in a position to help others >someday soon. > Hi Doug What you probably saw was a robber bee testing the colonies defenses. It's that time of year if you live in the south. Ther is very little nectar so the bees are checking every source where they may forage Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:37:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Extra hole in supers Where to put the extra entrance for supers? Personally, I don't like holes in supers or hive bodies. You can stick your hand over it when you are pulling the super off the hive (ouch!) and you have to remember to plug the holes when you stack the supers for storage (potential wax moth entrance. On my hives, I use notches cut in the inner covers as upper entrances/ventilation holes the year round. During supering season, I use Imirie Shims (we discussed them this Spring) or sticks under one side of the supers to proivide extra entrances. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:45:30 PDT Reply-To: TTOWNSE@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Subject: Re: two queen colonies David; I'm afraid their are easier ways to do and run two queen colonies, but there are no easy methods. If possible try to get ahold of Dr. Farrar's work on two queen management, it is very good, and you can use it as a basis for your own system. TPLR HONEY FARMS Tim Townsend RR 1 Stony Plain Alberta TTOWNSE@IBM.NET ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:55:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Garey B. Spradley" Subject: New Hives I put in two hives(one package bees, the other a captured wild swarm) on two different farms this spring. A friend started 4 hives of package bees at the same time. The package bees were ordered from the same supplier. My hives seem to be stronger than his (we are both feeding at the same rate). Is it easier for my bees to thrive because they have less competition? If so, how do the big guys do it with numerous hives in the same yard? Judy gspradley@gcc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:49:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: krengel lawrence e Subject: Re: New Hives In-Reply-To: <199607150255.WAA25608@moses> Judy - Your question about the number of hives and their effect on honey production is one that all the big beekeepers have to deal with. The answer, I understand, depends on the area. The conventional wisdom in our area (Northern Illinois) puts the maximum number of colonies in one apiary at about 40 or 50. Some might disagree with this number, but no matter where you are, the difference between 2 and 4 hives would not be noticed. The difference in the development of your hives is likely due to other factors. Larry Krengel Marengo, Illinois P.S. The honey is really flowing here. My scale hive has averaged six or seven pounds a day for the last 10 days. This is a longer honey flow and a later honey flow than I have experienced. Perhaps due to our strange - wet, cold, late, on-again-off-again - spring. LK ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 19:59:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard John Dwyer Hi, I was wondering if you could send me a description of a bumblebee's nest, or hive. The reason I ask is because I have one in my dryer vent, and cannot get it out.If you have any suggestions on how I might remove it, they would be greatly appreciated! My e-mail address is richjd@ix.netcom.com Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 17:07:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Re: The format and value of BEE-L logs > >Hello, Aaron, > >Although I am not a heavy user of this function of the BEE-L, I would vote >for the weekly logs. It certainly would help in locating items for research >(less to have to download and wade through). I know you're, probably, >looking at a lot of work, but I'm sure it would be well worth it and greatly >appreciated by everyone. Thank you for your hard work. > > >Cheers, > > >Mike Wallace >Sar Shalom Apiary >McKinney, Texas USA >"Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." > Hello Aaron and all: I use the archives from time to time. I think just from the point of managability the archives would be best kept in a weekly format. This is only my opinion. There was some comment about search problems. I use Netscape Navigator. It has a find function, which I use by subject, i.e. varroa or mites. It seems to work reasonably well. I may try some other searches. If they turn out well I will let you know. JRT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 19:44:23 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James C. Bach" Subject: Various issues ROY NETTLEBECK: Some time ago you wrote about having poor queens, etc. What percentage of poor queens have you had to-date - since April 6, 1996 in purchased vs home raised? In reply to your post Dave Green said that brood with holes in them are not more than 20% behind solid brood patterns. I wonder where he got this information or data? Your question was is the spotty pattern only caused by inbreeding? Are there other accompanying behaviors? My answer is yes, indeed! Poor brood patterns can be caused by anything from the quality of the eggs, not all eggs hatch according to the books. Also anything which causes or may cause prolonged interruptions in brood feeding cycles, quality of food, amount of food, age of nurse bee, and I think genetics and the quantity of queen pheromone available in the colony. I also wonder what percentage of the colonies (purchased vs raise) were noisy? ALLEN DICK: Some time ago you responded to my message on pollen tube growth. My reply apparantly didn't leave my computer. The almond pollen when used to artificially pollinate cherry blossoms results in deformed pollen tube growth. Also the tubes abort before they reach the ovary, thus no fertilization takes place and no fruit of course. WHITNEY CRANSHAW: Asked how long do Varroa live. I've read that they live for four days off a host bee and ten days on a dead host. However, a beekeeper here put a comb of brood from an infested colony into his warehouse where he uncapped brood over time to see how long he might find live Varroa. I talked with him at the three week point and he was still getting live Varroa crawling out of cells he opened. We could reasonably ask whether these were capable of reproducing. I have suggested to beekeepers here that there may be times when it would be better if they do not make up splits from hives of unknown Varroa levels but that they only use adult bees. That way they can treat all the adult bees with Apistan and kill the mites over a very short period of time perhaps even in five days. Of course this means that they perhaps make fewer splits if the number of adults per comb of brood is quite low in the parent colony. This is especially true sometimes in the spring. AARON MORRIS: You talked about using Pam on your frame nails. Were you aware that the brown coating on the nails is a material (like an epoxy) which heats up with the friction of your driving the nail into the wood? This heat causes the wood to bond with the nail holding the frame together much better. I think your Pam eliminates this gluing action intended by the manufacturer. Sorry, its better to get a few bent nails than to loose the frame integrity and durable longevity from the epoxy coating. MITE SOLUTION: Kerry Clark was correct in his brief discussion of this product recently on Bee-L. The product is not registered at this time and it is not likely to receive registration until more work is done to show its effectiveness. When I first saw the advertized labels for Mite Solution I approached the manufacturer to ascertain information about his testing procedures and the data he had compiled. I wanted to be able to support his registration request through the EPA process and to get a useful tool into the hands of beekeepers as soon as possible. That is, if the product could indeed be proven to have a debilitating effect on mites. We had several conversations about my concern with his scientific techniques and the apparant lack of reliable supporting data. I regret to have to inform you that his technique and his data do not support his claim that the solution kills mites. I don't think that this is the place or time to fully analyze his product and technique so I will not go into detail. Suffice it to say that EPA has not granted a registration for the product and is requiring more testing be done or the product will not be labeled. I have recommended to the manufacturer that he have other scientists recognized in the bee research community do studies on the product. I've been told that he has approached two scientists on this issue but he will not give them the information they require to conduct the tests. STEVE PHILLIPS: You wrote about bees plugging the brood nest with honey and pollen when you had empty supers on the hive. You asked: Why has this happened? and Is there a reason for concern? The replies you received may not be adequate responses to your questions. It would be helpful to know more about the size of the colony/hive, age of the queen, the external environment of the colony, ie. possible pesticide damage, HBTM and Varroa mite levels, and some observations about bee behaviors. In my many years of experience bees store honey in the brood nest for at least three reasons: a.) The hive is too crowded during the honey flow. b.) A failing one year or more old queen. Bees store honey and large amounts of pollen close to the brood rearing area. c.) A genetically poor queen. Of the queens I've introduced to nucs, and top splits over the past ten years, many have exhibited the behavior you describe. I have also seen and heard about this problem from numerous beekeepers. Currently, I believe the problem to be caused by poor queen genetics resulting in low levels of queen pheromones in the colony and hive. Such colonies become "noisy" when you manipulate the hive parts. The workers do a lot of scent fanning causing the noise. The bees do not form a retinue around the queen, do not pay much attention to her, and in many cases act like the colony is queenless. Beekeepers look at such a colony, find the queen and assume everything is alright. But the noise goes on each time the manipulate the hive. These colonies quite often produce a good crop of honey, but they put much of it close to the queen in responce to the low pheromone level. This behavior reduces the number of young bees produced, and results in the colony dying in late fall. In addition, these colonies do not cluster properly at low temperatures, apparently abscond during over a short period of time (two weeks) resulting in ten to fifteen frames of bees in September dissappearing by late October and November. Beekeepers come out in the spring to find an empty hive with six or seven deep combs of honey. These colonies also tend to store large amounts of pollen immediately above the brood nest. If you have taken care to prevent a.) and b.) is not the problem, and if you know what your mite levels are, then I suspect c.) to be the problem. bye for now James C. Bach WA State Apiarist PO Box 42560 Olympia WA 98504-2560 Ph.: 360 902 2068 fax: 360 902 2094 email: jcbach@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:40:54 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mark D. Egloff" Subject: A Depressing Day: Bees in the Honeyhouse Comments: To: ohbee-l@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu Gentlepeople: I pulled supers this past weekend and had a rather depressing day of it. I used fume boards (probably incorrectly) to pull supers and when I got home there were a LOT of bees that came home with me still in the supers. They were confused, flying all around the place, landing in small clusters, and generally trying to figure out where they were and what happened to them. Now my wife only tolerates this pastime of mine and wouldn't be caught dead in a bee suit. Bugs of any kind, stinging or not, are verboten. Need I say that several hundred (thousand?) confused honeybees flying around the neighborhood concerned both her and me. After all, suburbia is not the place where you want your neighbors to get stung or be afraid of being stung. At the time, the only way I could think of to deal with the problem was to hose the clusters down with the garden hose whenever they grouped. Thus went the day and the battle of the bees. It was NOT fun. I spent most of my year nurturing these insects trying to keep them healthy and such. Now I was killing them off by the hundreds. It definately took the pleasure out of the harvest. Two things for this group: First, Fume boards. Are there any special tricks or procedures that I should be aware of? I placed the fume boards on top after ensuring that about one tablespoon of repellent was squirted onto the board then waited about 5-10 minutes before I pulled the super. The pulled super was then placed on top of a cardboard sheet in the truck to seal the bottom then a bee escape was placed on top for whatever bees remained to use to exit the super(s). The fume boards did not work on the deep supers at all. Do you replenish your repellent frequently? How long do you leave the fume board on to drive bees out of a 6&5/8" super? A 9&1/4" super? ANY tips on these devices would be appreciated. As of right now, unless I learn of a way to make them more effective, I will go back to Bee Escape screens. It may have caused another trip to the apiary but in the past with them I didn't have to spend the day killing my charges. Second, was their ANY other solution to my problem of loose bees in my neighborhood other than killing them? Would a hive body of drawn comb drawn them into it to form their cluster? Living and still learning, Mark Egloff MEGLOFF@CSC.COM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:26:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Peters Subject: Re: A Depressing Day: Bees in the Honeyhouse At 09:48 AM 7/15/96 -0500, you wrote: As of right now, unless I learn of a way to > make them more effective, I will go back to Bee Escape screens. > It may have caused another trip to the apiary but in the past > with them I didn't have to spend the day killing my charges. > Hi Mark: I'm certainly not as experienced or as knowledgable as many others on the list; and I'm sure you'll get many other suggestions but here's my method..for what its worth. After experiencing mostly frustration with bee escapes and being unwilling to mess with fume boards, I happened on an article in Bee culture magazine last year that described shaking and brushing as a means of removing bees from supers. I bring an empty super with me when I am going to pull off honey supers. Frist I remove all the supers on a given hive. Then I pull each super frame, give it a sharp shake (do not knock) over the hive to dislodge most of the bees, then quickly brush off the stragglers. The frame then goes into the empty super. I place a piece of plywood on a hand truck, put the super on the plywood and cover with a spare outer cover. The process is repeated with each frame to be extracted. When transporting I strap the plywood, supers and cover together with my Kevlock straps, maintaining a bee tight package. Now for the qualifications. * This process is done most efficiently with two people * I was only working three hives w/3 supers/ea...this method may be too labor intensive for more than, say, 10 hives. Hope this is of some help. Tim Peters, Kirby VT tpeters@kingcon.com KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey I rather be flying! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 11:06:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Removing bees from supers Since we've had the first report of some (of many) bad experiences with trying to remove bees from supers, I'll offer my opinion of some options I've found effective (in order of preference): Any method of clearing supers (and extracting) works better in warm sunny weather, when the bees are still foraging (preferably actively). If you can extract the honey while it's still warm from the hive, things will go easier. You may have to remove some honey at the end of the flow when weather is cool and robbing is likely, but try to minimize it. 1. Abandonment method (the most elegant, IF conditions are right). Simply remove the super of honey, stand it on end and close the hive. Come back in 3 to 5+ hours, when the bees have abandoned the supers and returned to the hive. Take the supers for extracting. Conditions that have to be right: there MUST BE A HONEYFLOW continuing (or robbing may start) there must be NO BROOD in the supers (the bees won't leave it) The supers should be placed out of the flight path (beside or on top of the hive is OK). If done in mid morning, supers may be virtually clear by mid afternoon. Supers could be left overnight, but it isn't cold that makes them leave, and if supers are removed late in the day, the bees may cluster (then be harder to remove next morning) rather than return to the hive. A few supers may have a couple of hundred bees remaining. These can be blown or shaken out. If a super is placed in a flight path, it may fill with bees. If other supers have been vacated and you can come back later, move it away and the bees may leave it in another couple of hours. Or use method 2. Try this carefully if you haven't done it before. If it isn't working, be extra careful if you continue. The pandemonium of robbing is worth avoiding. 2. Blower method. You don't necessarily need the special (gas powered, noisy, stinky) blower equipment. If you have an electric outlet near your hives, try a vacuum cleaner with the hose attached to the outlet, so it blows. Some machines blow better than others. (Don't blame me if you get propolis on someone else's vacuum). Use a crevice tool to increase air velocity. Put a screen over the inlet so you don't suck bees and stuff into the vacuum. Work from behind the hive. Tip the super onto its front, so the bottom bars face you. (Smoke the bees off the top of the super below). Starting at a side frame, blow the bees out past the top bars, into the air in front of their hive. They will return to the hive entrance. Be thorough but don't dawdle (bees will be crawling back in). If the comb is capped, the bees leave easier. Don't forget the space between the end bars and the super. Work through the frames to the other side (if the super is really full of bees and comb, it may work better if you remove one frame first, then "leaf" the bottom bars along to make more room at the space where you're blowing. However, it's nice if you can avoid breaking open any honey-filled bridge comb). Remove the super from the hive and blow off the remaining bees. Cover top and bottom to avoid robbers. 3. Bee repellant (butyric anhydride) Works best in hot weather when top supers are mostly capped and bees aren't crowded in them. Boards specially made to apply the repellant are necessary. The best I've seen have black painted, aluminum covers to absorb sunshine and stay warm. They are stacked absorbent-side facing, and kept warm to stay repellant when moved between yards (1/2 hr). This method uses 4 to 6 boards to progressively remove bees from 24 to 30 hives (move boards to the next hive, as supers are removed). It's not elegant, you'd probably want a blower as backup. You'll need good bee protection and I find the repellant stinks (even the stuff with cherry overtones). Remove the lid from the hive and give it 3 to 5 good puffs of smoke to start the bees moving down. Put the boards on cross-ways or a bit ajar for a few minutes, then move them directly over the super. In a few minutes (check the bottom of the super) the bees will have moved down. Remove that super, and move the board down. If it isn't working fast enough, maybe add a bit more repellant. Don't repel the bees so strongly that they begin running out the entrance. When you're finished, leave your coveralls outside, have a good shower and consider the merits of method 1. Air the supers before extracting. (IF you want to requeen or split this hive soon: leave the repellant board on until the bees have left the upper brood box. Insert a queen excluder between the boxes and close up the hive. Within a few hours, the bees are re-established throughout the hive, but the queen is now in the bottom box. You can split/requeen the top box without finding her, or find her in the bottom box and replace her. If you want to split and the upper box is heavy with honey, it may be better to exchange some brood frames with the bottom box.) 4. Shaking and brushing. It's straightforward and OK for a couple of hives, but even for 1 hive, a vacuum-cleaner blower is more efficient, if you have power available. 5. Bee escape boards. Sometimes work OK, but rarely, in my experience. The supers have to be moved twice (first to put on the board) and if the bees don't leave, you have to use another method anyway. Happy harvest. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture 1201 103 Ave Dawson Creek B.C. V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (604) 784-2225 fax (604) 784-2299 INTERNET KCLARK@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:01:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: A Depressing Day: Bees in the Honeyhouse At 09:40 7/15/96 EST, you wrote: >---------------------- Information from the mail header ----------------------- >Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology >Poster: "Mark D. Egloff" >Subject: A Depressing Day: Bees in the Honeyhouse >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Gentlepeople: > > I pulled supers this past weekend and had a rather > depressing day of it. I used fume boards (probably > incorrectly) to pull supers and when I got home there were a > LOT of bees that came home with me still in the supers. They > were confused, flying all around the place, landing in small > clusters, and generally trying to figure out where they were > and what happened to them. > > Now my wife only tolerates this pastime of mine and wouldn't > be caught dead in a bee suit. Bugs of any kind, stinging or > not, are verboten. Need I say that several hundred (thousand?) > confused honeybees flying around the neighborhood concerned > both her and me. After all, suburbia is not the place where > you want your neighbors to get stung or be afraid of being > stung. > > At the time, the only way I could think of to deal with the > problem was to hose the clusters down with the garden hose > whenever they grouped. Thus went the day and the battle of the > bees. It was NOT fun. I spent most of my year nurturing these > insects trying to keep them healthy and such. Now I was > killing them off by the hundreds. It definately took the > pleasure out of the harvest. > > Two things for this group: > > First, Fume boards. Are there any special tricks or > procedures that I should be aware of? I placed the fume boards > on top after ensuring that about one tablespoon of repellent > was squirted onto the board then waited about 5-10 minutes > before I pulled the super. The pulled super was then placed on > top of a cardboard sheet in the truck to seal the bottom then a > bee escape was placed on top for whatever bees remained to use > to exit the super(s). The fume boards did not work on the deep > supers at all. Do you replenish your repellent frequently? > How long do you leave the fume board on to drive bees out of a > 6&5/8" super? A 9&1/4" super? ANY tips on these devices would > be appreciated. As of right now, unless I learn of a way to > make them more effective, I will go back to Bee Escape screens. > It may have caused another trip to the apiary but in the past > with them I didn't have to spend the day killing my charges. > > Second, was their ANY other solution to my problem of loose > bees in my neighborhood other than killing them? Would a hive > body of drawn comb drawn them into it to form their cluster? > > Living and still learning, > > Mark Egloff > MEGLOFF@CSC.COM > Mark, First of all, don't be too discouraged. We learn from our mistakes. By going through this, you're learning several methods of doing what you want to do. To specifically answer your questions - BEE-GO works best when it is HOT, HOT, HOT. This is no fun for us beekeepers, because we get super sweaty in our suits, but it is a fact. Also, sometimes you have to wait up to 15 minutes before you pull your super. Another thing, only run the bees out of one super at a time (if you have several supers stacked) and then remove it. Once done, move the fume board down to the next super. Don't expect that the one treatment at the top is going to clear all of your stacked supers. Also, don't remove the fume board until you're sure you want to remove the super. Finally, when you get them to the house, if you don't want them flying all over and are worried about them stinging people, you have to destroy them, one way or another. The method we use is, once we bring the supers into the honey house, we use a cheap wet/dry vac to suck the bees up. Of course, this vac is used only for that purpose. And, Oh, BTW, it stinks, BIG TIME. Hope this helps. Regards, Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 20:07:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael L. Wallace" Subject: Re: NDN: Re: Copy of: Mid-size Mammals >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > >Charlie Eagle (Mailbox or Conference is full.) > >sent via UUCP from: Raven Net, Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada > > Hello, All, I keep getting this message, every time I post to the list. Is anyone else experiencing this phenomena? Mike Wallace Sar Shalom Apiary McKinney, Texas USA "Out of the heart, the mouth speaks." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 01:55:34 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder >>> >>Hi Dave >> >>I started using the baggie feeder this year and I will never use anything >>else again. It is a small super about 3". An empty shallow super will work >>just as well. There are a few things I had to learn the hard way. Put a >>queen excluder or something under the bags if you intend to manipulate the >>hive while feeding. Use only heavey duty zip lock type freezer bags and make >>sure they are completely sealed before they are put on the hive. Leave as >>little air as is possiable when sealing. Dribble a little of the syrup on >>the bees so they will come up and find it. >> >>After you get the hang of it, the baggie feeder is a great way to feed. >> >>Frank Humphrey >>beekeeper@worldmet.att.net >> > > Hi Frank > > If the bags are completly sealed,how do the bees get the syrup. > > > Frank Battistolo > frankb@cyberstore. ca >frankb@cyberstore.ca >Just another beekeeper... > After laying the bags flat on the top bars or queen excluder, cut 2 or 3 2" slits in the bags. I have my hives tilted slightly forward so I slit the bags crosswise of the hive Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 01:55:34 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Franklin D. Humphrey Sr" Subject: Re: A Depressing Day: Bees in the Honeyhouse At 02:26 PM 7/15/96 +0000, you wrote: >At 09:48 AM 7/15/96 -0500, you wrote: > > As of right now, unless I learn of a way to >> make them more effective, I will go back to Bee Escape screens. >> It may have caused another trip to the apiary but in the past >> with them I didn't have to spend the day killing my charges. >> > Hi Mark: > > I'm certainly not as experienced or as knowledgable as many others > on the list; and I'm sure you'll get many other suggestions but > here's my method..for what its worth. > > After experiencing mostly frustration with bee escapes and being > unwilling to mess with fume boards, I happened on an article in > Bee culture magazine last year that described shaking and brushing > as a means of removing bees from supers. > > I bring an empty super with me when I am going to pull off honey > supers. Frist I remove all the supers on a given hive. Then I pull > each super frame, give it a sharp shake (do not knock) over the > hive to dislodge most of the bees, then quickly brush off the > stragglers. The frame then goes into the empty super. I place a > piece of plywood on a hand truck, put the super on the plywood and > cover with a spare outer cover. The process is repeated with each frame > to be extracted. When transporting I strap the plywood, supers and cover > together with my Kevlock straps, maintaining a bee tight package. > > Now for the qualifications. > > * This process is done most efficiently with two people > * I was only working three hives w/3 supers/ea...this method may be > too labor intensive for more than, say, 10 hives. > > Hope this is of some help. > > >Tim Peters, Kirby VT >tpeters@kingcon.com >KirBee Apiary, Bear Bait Honey >I rather be flying! > I tried the brush and shake method a few years ago and just about got carried off in the robbing frenzy that followed. I've since used a fume board and no smoke. I just put it on top of the hive and in about 5 min the bees are out and they don't try to take super away from me while loading. The key to using a fume board is to paint it flat black and use it in hot sunshine. Frank Humphrey beekeeper@worldmet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 02:52:22 GMT Reply-To: johntrn@ldd.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Taylor Organization: midwest.net Subject: Apistan Strips In-Reply-To: <960628063545_144788333@emout15.mail.aol.com> After installation of my first hive this Spring, Apistan Strips were installed. After I added the second BC, strips were also added to that. As I have come to not expect any honey this year (sigh!) I have just left the Apistan in place. What is the useful life of a strip? How often do they need to be replaced? -- John Taylor -- Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:06:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: When to requeen?? Hi Ken, Good ideas on when to requeen. Here I am in New England ,slightly different environment. My hives are at 1500 foout elevation with good slope from their southerly side and front entrance. Mild breeezes most of time. Hives protected from cold northwesterly storms. Insulated in winter. Now second week in July, have good honey in three supers of hive B ( a second year colony of Italtians) .I plan to requeen in the fall.No matter what happens between now and then to keep young queen in control of hive. What is your opinion on this? Hive A is new started in April 1996. Lost or destroyed original queen during an inspection . Replaced in late May.The new queen is going like gangbusters now after a slow start. Am worried about this hive making in through the next winter because the colony has not yet filled the lower brood chamber. Upper brood cahmber probably wont fill until fall. It is a wait and see situation with a possibility of needing to match with another colony. But then a queen is wasted. Suggestions or comments pleas. Hive C was started along with Hive A and has both brood chambers full and moving up to first honey super. Started from new 3# package in April.Probably will not have enough honey to collect this year. Plan to use this queen and colony as a base if I have to combine a weak colony with a stronger one. Queen should l get me into next season OK. At fall of 1997 will requeen this one. Suggestions or comments. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:05:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Swarming and varroa Adrian, thaks for the interesting hypotheses re subject. Why do you feel that swarming interupts the varroa life cycle. Is it because there are no cells in which to lay varroa mite eggs? Would not varroa adults travel on swarming drones? and thus be the progenitors of new varroa infestations? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:07:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: herbs & mites hello Geray, will add the Feverfew to my list. I havea good batch of mintbut do not see the bees on it much. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:07:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: plastic foundations and frames re foundation. With due respect to the rights of plastic foundation I make the following observation. Lasts year I used a combination of prodoucts for evaluation and thus had not hives that were 100 one product. I used (a) a all wax foundation with support wire, (b) plastic foundation with a coating of bees wax. and (c)some comlete frames and foundation of plastsic coated with beewax. Last year both (a) and (b) were well accepted and both brood and 6-5.8 inch frames came through the winter well. product(c) was not well accepted and it appears that they bees simply moved most sof the wax elsewhere and made little or no drawn cells. This spring I noted that the wax was gone from one side or large areas of (b) frames and was not replaced and in some cases one whole side would be lacking wax while the opposite side was in good condition and in use. I used one super with product (c) and it was totally ignored. Now we have the product evaluation. How about product support. Last summer I called the manufacturer of product (c) They would not take the product back even for review. Called them again to ask what would cause the bees to reject a foundation, how to correct the situation. . After three calls I got the message ,relayed from NZ, "recoat "them with melted cappings. Yes I had thought of that but my meager little three hives do not product enough capping to do that this fall. I suspect there is some phermome in the product that the bees dislike. Can not prove it. Now with respect to the problem with product (b) I got no useful information and denial that such a thing could happen. I know that I am not alone,have seen similar rejection of areas of (b) at local bee meetings, and total rejection in (c). We do know that some beekeepers are very happy with (b) and (c) . So for some the plastsic content is not a problem. If between the user and the manufacturer the problem can be resolved, then the industry will benefit. The firsdt thing to determine is in what areas have these products been successful and in what areas have they not been successful. If there is no area picture, is it the type of bee, could it be contamination of the surface. That there is a problem there is not doubt. The manufacturers must set up a program to determine the extent of the problem if they are to stay in business. The beekeepers need the simplicity of the type of product ,and the theretical longevity thereof. . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:05:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Copy of: Mid-size Mammals During the past two years I have had times when racoons and skunks went to my hives and took off the sugar syrup bottles and rolled them down hill some distance trying to get the cap off. They were not as patient as the bees and didnot let the sugar water seep out the tiny holes.In one instance the bottle broke.. My hives are on concrete blocks and the land in front of the hives slopes down. Putting chiken wire in front of the hives in the grass seems to help. I just stake in loose wire so that I can remove it easily to work the hives. Recently a racoon got into my garage where I has stored so honey in plastic bottles. The little devil chewed holes in two ,tipped them over and caused leaks that made all the rest of the bottles very sticky. Moved the rest to safer locations and all is well. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 00:07:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Milkweed - risky pollination We seee quite a bit of bee activity around milkweed here and have not yet noted the risky pollination problem will observe more closely Late last summer we noted that the bees really seemed to love it.And did not seem to have any problem. Where did you see it most? at the flower?and the hives?on the entry board? on the the comb.? I find it listed as a source of nectar in Nectar and Pollen Plant sof Central Massachusetts, published by the Worcester County Beekeepers Assosiation ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:00:43 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: plastic foundations and frames > With due respect to the rights of plastic foundation I make the > following observation. Lasts year I used a combination of prodoucts > for evaluation and thus had not hives that were 100 one product. I > used (a) a all wax foundation with support wire, (b) plastic > foundation with a coating of bees wax. and (c)some comlete frames > and foundation of plastsic coated with beewax. > > Last year both (a) and (b) were well accepted and both brood and > 6-5.8 inch frames came through the winter well. product(c) was not > well accepted and it appears that they bees simply moved most sof > the wax elsewhere and made little or no drawn cells. While I had hoped that this might tell us something about specific products on the market it seems it discusses products identified only generally by type -- did not appear to work well work in a specific situation. That is unfortunate inasmuch as the specific products are not named, and we might tend to draw conclusions based on a small sample of products in each category. They appear not to be the well known, nationally advertised products I have used over the years -- and which I will name. We read that some unmentioned brand of wax foundation of unknown cell size seemed to be well accepted, some plastic sheets of unstated manufacture (there are at least several on the market) were somewhat accepted and seemed to have problems when later examined, and some plastic frames with foundation built-in that are possibly -- in some way -- associated with New Zealand were not accepted at all -- each under circumstances that are not clear. I want to state specifically that I have used numerous (most North American) brands of wax foundation -- including some with considerable paraffin, I suspect. They all worked , but some brands, on some occasions were brittle and fell apart-- or they were poorly made and warped. In my experience, wax foundation -- of any brand -- has often been rejected by my bees due to poor position or bad timing, and has become useless before the bees got to it again another year. (I have only used the wax foundation that purported to have worker size cells and and although I have noticed that they vary somewhat in cells per inch, I have never been observant enough to decide if the bees care). As far as plastic goes, I have used Permadent ( and another brand, the name of which I forget) as well as the Pierco frames with foundation built in. In my opinion -- in commercial service --the bees draw a larger proportion of useful straight combs on any of them with less wastage than on any wax I have used, and I have had literally tons of wax foundation pass through my hands over the years. If the plastic is not drawn out the first year, it can be re-inserted until it is used. It will not be damaged by being handled and trucked repeatedly until it is lucky enough to find a hive that is ready to work on it. Wax is usually pretty useless if not drawn the first year, as it will not stand trucking and rough handling, or storage under some conditions. It cannot be handled in cold weather. As far as cross comb is concerned, We really don't find plastic any worse than natural wax. FWIW, we added 1,000 supers of new Permadent this year and love it. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:19:09 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Removing bees from supers "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" wrote: Since we've had the first report of some (of many) bad experiences with trying to remove bees from supers, I'll offer my opinion of some options I've found effective (in order of preference): [snip] I would add a method that I use. Compressed air from an old scuba tank with a air spray nozzel (the kind you use to pump up an air mattress. Tip the super up and blow the bees out. Fast and efficient. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:43:00 +400 Reply-To: dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dan Goodwin Organization: Yarmouth Hospital Subject: Dadant Address/ Tel # Hi Can someone post the address and/or phone number for Dadant ? Thanks -- Dan Goodwin Manager of Information Systems Western Regional Health Center Yarmouth, N.S. dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:36:24 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Current Varroa levels? Asked on science.agriculture.beekeeping: >In article <4sd9kt$kdg@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> >Michael@helium (Michael Courtney) writes: > >> >>Given that 90% of the wild honey bees have been wiped out by mites, >>and swarming is a means or replentishing them, is swarming bad? >> >>I am studying beekeeping and plan on keeping a couple of hives next >>year primarily for pollination purposes. Wouldn't it help the >>regional pollination if I let the bees swarm and just replaced >>colonies which were left too weak to survive the winter? >> >>-- >>Michael Courtney, Ph. D. >>michael@amo.mit.edu >> To which I answered the following: >The problem with swarming at this point is that the swarms provide >new "host pools" for the mites. Without treatment, most swarms will >be victims of the mites and the mite population that flourishes in >wild swarms will reinfect kept bees. > >I have not heard of the levels of varroa infestation equal to what was >being reported this time last year. I suspect this may be due to the >fact that varroa was SO successful last year that most of their hosts >were done in, hence there may not be as may pockets of varroa to infest >beekeepers' colonies. Hopefully all beekeepers are treating their >colonies at this point which leaves the primary source of varroa >as feral colonies (swarms). This is merely speculation on my part, >not borne out in any published research of which I am aware. > >A weak link in the Apistan treadmill is reinfestation from nearby >colonies (either feral or untreated hives). The most effective >treatment program requires that colonies be treated not only on a >beeyard basis, but on a larger geographic scale. For instance, all >colonies in the county. The problems with this strategy are >coordinating the treatment program (getting multiple beekeepers to >treat simultaneously), feral colonies that don't get treated at all, >and colonies in the next county over. It's the untreated varroa haven >that serves to reinfest other colonies. > Now my question to this forum regards my statement above that reports of levels of varroa infestation have not equaled what was being reported this time last year. I have not seen them in my hives nor have I heard of problems from my beekeeping buddies, whereas this time last year I heard of others' problems and saw them in my hives, figuring I'd be all right if I treated in September (a bad move on my part). This year I've been keeping a keen watch, but haven't seen them. This is not meant to instill any sort of assuredness to any beekeeper anywhere that the plague has passed, but I can't help but wonder if varroa populations are down proportionately to the level in which feral populations are also down. Observations and speculations from other parts are requested. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:28:14 +22324924 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Subject: Re: Current Varroa levels? In-Reply-To: <960716.083726.EDT.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> from "Aaron Morris" at Jul 16, 96 08:36:24 am I've been keeping a watch on the "on bee" varroa levels in the hives I work in SW Virginia--an area decimated by the poor conditions of last winter. The "on bee" level is a good way to estimate the varroa infestation. If I see more than 3-4 bees in a normal colony (expected # of bees per time of year) with mites attached. I count the colony as heavily infested. Colonies here were started from southern packages, or from strong, treated colonies that over-wintered well--and now, some are heavily infested. Where did the mites come from? I have no idea, but assume that infestations are going to follow the typical sigmoid growth curve pattern--build up, peak, and then population crash; only to repeat. There will probably be light varroa years, followed by heavy ones.Does this sound vague and hard to manage? Yep! Such is beekeeping now. Adam -- _________________ Adam Finkelstein adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Any advertisements sent to me will be billed $25 per message, $1 per character, including all header lines. No exceptions. Sending such mail constitutes agreement to these terms. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 09:27:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: exporting queens Bee liners I am going to Bulgaria next month and am considering taking some queens from the U.S. Does anyone know if this is prohibited or what regulations affect export of queens. I assume it is a matter regulated by the country to which one is traveling. Bill Lord -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 10:03:52 -0500 Reply-To: MTS@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm T. Sanford" Subject: Re: Last issue of APIS! To receive further copies, please subscribe to Apis-L. (fwd) Comments: To: BEE-EXTL@sun1.oardc.ohio-state.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 17:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Florida Extension Apiculturist" Subject: Re: Last issue of APIS! To receive further copies, please subscribe to Apis-L. Hello Tom, My parents are bee-keepers and have enjoyed reading your APIS postings that I have forwarded to them off of Sanet. When they find a new internet access provider they will most likely subscribe to Apis-l. Until then they have a few questions that they requested I send to the Apis-L. 1) What is known about alfalfa as a bee forage plant ? At what time of day is its nectar most available ? At what level of bloom (1/4, 1/2....) does it become of major interest to honey bees. Is it true that the flower morphology is challenging for honey bees (nectar access from the side) and thus is not a prefered plant by honey bees ? Can anyone recommend any articles that discuss alfalfa as a bee forage plant ? 2) My father is assembling a collection of photographic slides of honeybees on bee forage plants. He has high quality photos of bees on white dutch clover, hairy vetch, sweetclover, alfalfa, anise hyssop, beebee (Evodia) tree, golden rain tree, black locust, lavender, apple blossoms, squash blossoms... and many more... he has taken about 100 photos so far and is still gaining momentum... he intends to assemble a slide show for the Central MD beekeepers and possibly to produce some greeting cards, a calendar... If anyone is interested in these photographs... post me at jgruv@wam.umd.edu Joel Gruver jgruv@wam.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:39:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Apistan Strips Comments: To: John Taylor In-Reply-To: <31e56e6b.267762395@mail.midwest.net> On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, John Taylor wrote: > After installation of my first hive this Spring, Apistan Strips were > installed. After I added the second BC, strips were also added to > that. As I have come to not expect any honey this year (sigh!) I have > just left the Apistan in place. What is the useful life of a strip? > How often do they need to be replaced? > > > -- John Taylor -- > Southeast Missouri > > When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! > Hi John... Although I'm not an expert, i knoiw that you should not leave Apistan strips in for more than the recommended 7 weeks (42 days). Otherwise, You might be helping the mites become immune to the chemical. Well, thats my 2 cents worth..:) Has anyone tried using natural treatments?.....like putting peppermint or spearmint leaves on the top bars of the highest super?....One of the fellows in our local beekeepers group tried this and says he is mite free. Just wondering.... Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 17:25:37 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Varroa and old equipment A while back there was a question about the use of old beekeeping eqipment and the liklihood of infection of the new colony by varroa - to which I posted a reply. Talking this weekend with Stephen Martin of the National Bee Unit here in the UK, (who is doing some neat work on varroa biology), he has recently had some experience of transferring some old dis-infested brood combs into new colonies (which had previously received a miticidal treatment) and which were subsequently given a clear bill of health. However, a few days after introduction of the old combs into the new active colonies, he recorded a mite fall - not a great one, up to 10/12 mites, all dead. This was apparently due to the bees cleaning out the cells of all debris left behind by the previous occupants. The timing of the mite fall seems to vary but should show up within 2-3 weeks of old comb introduction in an active colony. It just goes to show how easy it can be to misinterpret a mite fall sometimes; this doesn't represent a new infestation, it's just good housekeeping by the colony. Sudden surges in mite fall before, during or after a miticidal treatment may be partly attributed to this factor. Just thought this would be of interest to the group. Max ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:26:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MR MARK G SPAGNOLO Subject: plastic foundation Hi I thought I might add my opinion on the discussion of plastic foundation and frames. In the past year I have converted my entire operation (35 hives for pollen collection and avocado and papaya pollination) to plasticell foundation. While it seems to me the bees prefered the wax foundation, when all they have to choose from is plastic, they have eagerly drawn and used it. My reasons for switching are many (more durable, can be reused if eaten by wax moth, don't blow out when extracted, no wiring), and now that I have made the switch and am using exclusively plastic foundation I know that I will never buy wax foundation again! My employer, Kona Queen, does not use plastic foundation. We thought about making the switch, but the conversion process would take years and when given the choice the bees seem to prefer wax over plastic. I would, and have, suggested plasticell (plastic) foundation to many people and will continue to do so. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 11:13:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: chemical mis use of warnings In-Reply-To: On Fri, 12 Jul 1996, Vince Coppola wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, (Kevin & Shawna Roberts) wrote: > > > I will internationalize my statement: > > > > Do not put any fluvalinate in your hives that is not properly registered for > > use in bee hives. > > > > Mites becoming resistant to fluvalinate is not just a U.S. concern; it is a > > world-wide concern. Improper use will hasten the time when fluvalinate will > > no longer control the mites. > > > Words of wisdom indeed. We should also be concerned with the other > materials used in some formulations of fluvalinate. These may be soluable > in beeswax and or honey. The also may be toxic to humans or bees. Lets > stick to beekeeping and leave chemical engineering to others. Hello All, Vince made a very important statement and everyone has to think about it. It is too late when the public hears about honey that may have unwanted chemicals in it and that beekeepers are using drugs on there bees that are not legal. I want that mite gone as much as the next guy or gal. In fact I'm on the soap box every weekend talking about the mite and what impact it has on beekeeping and the food supply. I see at least 3,000 people each weekend at the two farmers markets that I sell honey at. I was at a friends house last night who delivers 6,000 pound of honey a week on one contract. He was telling me about the new mite control chemicals that started up here in Washington state. It has been disscused here on the list a couple of weeks ago. He said that the FDA has approved it as a food product. This is all hear say. We have to work with facts. I was told that many large beekeepers have been using it and it works. This material has not been tested by qualified researchers.We don't need a loose cannon that can shoot us in the foot.We all want to save our bees, but lets do it the right way.Get the word out to the public so we may get more support for research and breeding programs. We have people working on the mite problem and we need more info on progress , so we can cut down on the backyard chemist that can get us all in trouble. I have asked before, for the USDA to give use a little info from time to time. It is needed now. I lost 50 out of 80 last fall, and I know how I feel about the mite and maybe loosing more bees this winter. I know that this mite will be behind us and we will talk about the problems that we did have in getting thru Varroa.Lets keep it just to Varroa and not a quality problem with honey.That would be much worse than Varroa. Thank You Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Current Varroa levels? In-Reply-To: <199607161328.JAA32600@vtaix.cc.vt.edu> from "Adam Finkelstein" at Jul 16, 96 09:28:14 am Adam, I keep bees in north central North Carolina, not so far from you. I have begun to treat my bees for Varroa in February and July and have had excellent results. One good thing about these treatments is they both come at brood low points and seem to be more effective. I think almost all of the feral bees are gone here. Bill Lord > > I've been keeping a watch on the "on bee" varroa levels in the hives I >work in SW Virginia--an area decimated by the poor conditions of last >winter. The "on bee" level is a good way to estimate the varroa >infestation. If I see more than 3-4 bees in a normal colony (expected # of >bees per time of year) with mites attached. I count the colony as heavily >infested. > >Colonies here were started from southern packages, or from strong, treated >colonies that over-wintered well--and now, some are heavily infested. >Where did the mites come from? I have no idea, but assume that infestations >are going to follow the typical sigmoid growth curve pattern--build up, >peak, and then population crash; only to repeat. > >There will probably be light varroa years, followed by heavy ones.Does this >sound vague and hard to manage? Yep! Such is beekeeping now. > >Adam >-- >_________________ >Adam Finkelstein >adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu >Any advertisements sent to me will be billed $25 per message, $1 per >character, including all header lines. No exceptions. Sending such mail >constitutes agreement to these terms. > > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:41:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Apistan Strips >On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, John Taylor wrote: > >> After installation of my first hive this Spring, Apistan Strips were >> installed. After I added the second BC, strips were also added to >> that. As I have come to not expect any honey this year (sigh!) I have >> just left the Apistan in place. What is the useful life of a strip? >> How often do they need to be replaced? On Tues, 16 Jul 1996, Ian Watson wrote >Although I'm not an expert, i knoiw that you should not leave Apistan >strips in for more than the recommended 7 weeks (42 days). Otherwise, >You might be helping the mites become immune to the chemical. Well, thats >my 2 cents worth..:) > >Has anyone tried using natural treatments?.....like putting peppermint or >spearmint leaves on the top bars of the highest super?....One of the >fellows in our local beekeepers group tried this and says he is mite free. >Just wondering.... When writing mite free, do you mean Varroa Mites, Tracheal Mites or both, I have heard of natural oil treating for Tracheal Mites but not for Varroa. Please verify this statement as it is very interesting. **************************************************** * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:02:00 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: early e-mail about use of apisatn in Ontario, canada Comments: To: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Hi Max: I send an e-mail about2 weeks ago. I had some questions about the use of Apistan. I have not recieved any answer. I am looking forward to hear somthing. Thank you, Medhat Nasr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:17:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: plastic foundations and frames On plastic foundation/frames: Count me as one of those who has had good success with plastic foundation/frames. My observation has been that if the nectar flow is good, the bees will draw anything. If the nectar flow is not good, everything will be ignored. Pluses for plastic: Easy to install (no installation in the case of all plastic frames) Tolerant of abuse. Can be installed in frames on a winter day if you like. Bees won't chew holes in undrawn foundation No extracter "blowouts" If the comb is eaten by wax moths, just put the sheet back in the hive during the next honeflow for re-use Disadvantages: Plastic foundation costs a bit more No good for comb honey production IMHO, except for comb honey production, plastic foundation is so superior to everything else that it makes other types of foundation obsolete. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 21:34:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Apistan Strips In-Reply-To: <199607161944.PAA04375@segwun.muskoka.net> On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, David Eyre wrote: > >On Mon, 15 Jul 1996, John Taylor wrote: > > > >> After installation of my first hive this Spring, Apistan Strips were > >> installed. After I added the second BC, strips were also added to > >> that. As I have come to not expect any honey this year (sigh!) I have > >> just left the Apistan in place. What is the useful life of a strip? > >> How often do they need to be replaced? > > On Tues, 16 Jul 1996, Ian Watson wrote > >Although I'm not an expert, i knoiw that you should not leave Apistan > >strips in for more than the recommended 7 weeks (42 days). Otherwise, > >You might be helping the mites become immune to the chemical. Well, thats > >my 2 cents worth..:) > > > >Has anyone tried using natural treatments?.....like putting peppermint or > >spearmint leaves on the top bars of the highest super?....One of the > >fellows in our local beekeepers group tried this and says he is mite free. > >Just wondering.... > > When writing mite free, do you mean Varroa Mites, Tracheal Mites or both, I > have heard of natural oil treating for Tracheal Mites but not for Varroa. > Please verify this statement as it is very interesting. > **************************************************** > * David Eyre 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, * > * The Beeworks, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1. * > * beeworks@muskoka.net 705-326-7171 * > * http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks * > * Agents for: E H Thorne & B J Sherriff UK. * > **************************************************** > Well....i'm not sure which mites the beekeeeper meant when he said "mite-free"......but i'm guessing it's the tracheal mites...possibly because the bees breathe in the volitile fumes from the peppermint or speermint...if anyone else has any other anecdotal evidence, i would like to hear.. Thanks.. Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 22:53:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian G. Merrill" Subject: Re: Package order refund >I had trouble getting my packages from them also. It got so bad (two >and a half months of delays) that I contacted the local police >department. The desk sgt gave me the name of a detective in the >Greene County sherriffs office to contact. I did not have to call >since my packages finally arrived. If you want the detectives name e- >mail at NHJV32A@prodigy.com or hughes@gomemphis.com. > > Just a quick update...I finally got Smokey Bee to answer the other telephone number that you included in your message...I chewed on the guy's ear for quite a time...indicated that he had no money, etc...I mentioned your name, the name of the desk sgt and detective and he finally agreed to try to send me a partial refund this week and the remainder the first of August. I expect to send notice to the ABJ and Gleanings in the future but I am waiting until I at least see part of my money. I'd like the entire industry to be aware of these people and how they deal with their collegues. thanks for your help to date. Brian G. Merrill bmerrill@ns.moran.com Ellie Bee Apiaries 61 Calumet St. Depew, NY 14043 USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 22:58:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Brian G. Merrill" Subject: Re: Package order refund >I had trouble getting my packages from them also. It got so bad (two >and a half months of delays) that I contacted the local police >department. The desk sgt gave me the name of a detective in the >Greene County sherriffs office to contact. I did not have to call >since my packages finally arrived. If you want the detectives name e- >mail at NHJV32A@prodigy.com or hughes@gomemphis.com. > sorry Bee-L...like others I replied to the wrong message and thereby sent it to the whole list... Brian G. Merrill bmerrill@ns.moran.com Ellie Bee Apiaries 61 Calumet St. Depew, NY 14043 USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 19:22:43 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: N/A Subject: Plastic Foundation My opinion of plastic foundation is overwhelmingly positive. Here in Alaska I have yet to see any drawbacks to its use. It may be a bit more expensive initially, but with spoiled, or broken, sheets of foundation counted in the cost evens out. Over the long run I believe that plasic is cheaper. I have been using it for several years. None lost to date. I am converting entirely to plastic foundation as I replace comb. Tom Elliott Eagle River, Alaska beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 07:22:39 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Clearing supers Many suggestions for clearing on the Bee list lately. Fume boards that require hot weather and one super at a time, compressed air which requires electricity on site or a special machine, brushing the combs one at a time (and how that infuriates bees) and finally standing the super on the hive and waiting several hours for the bees to leave it. I would advise inexperienced beekeepers to ignore the last mentioned. Admittedly bees are not interested in free gifts of honey when there is a nectar flow on and the writer wisely advised caution. With more than one hive on site if things went wrong all hell would be let loose. In 1891 W L Porter, a respected American beekeeper, introduced the bee escape, a simple one way device, for clearing supers. This has stood the test of time and now has many imitators. I have used his escapes all my life and consider it an ideal method for the small scale beekeeper. Some criticise it because it needs two visits to the hive. The first is a matter of minutes with little disturbance and the second even quicker and no disturbance at all. All the supers can be dealt with at one time and cleared in twelve to twenty four hours. Compare this with the fuss and risks of the methods mentioned above. There are a few points to consider. Make your own clearer boards, using two or three escapes per board. Fit a one inch lip top and bottom to ensure clearance.. Make suitable slots to take the escapes from above or simpler, drill one inch holes and pin the escape from below. Bees will not desert brood so if the queen has been wandering in the supers the escapes will not work. Moreover drones can block the springs. In a well-ordered hive, queen below the excluder and nothing but honey in the supers the system works perfectly. Take off the supers as soon as they are cleared. Once the bees are gone the honey is unguarded and robbers will quickly take advantage of any small gap or an ill-fitting roof. Within two days they will bave extracted the honey for you. Sid P. _________________________________________________________________ Sid Pullinger Email : sidpul@aladdin.co.uk 36, Grange Rd Compuserve: 100343.1216@compuserve.com Alresford Hants SO24 9HF England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:34:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dennis A. Meeks" Subject: Re: Dadant Address/ Tel # At 08:43 AM 7/16/96 +400, you wrote: >Hi > >Can someone post the address and/or phone number for Dadant ? > >Thanks > >-- >Dan Goodwin >Manager of Information Systems >Western Regional Health Center >Yarmouth, N.S. > >dgoodwin@yrhosp.ns.ca Dadant & Sons, Inc. Hamilton, IL 62341 (217)847-3324 Hope this helps Dennis Meeks DAMeeks@noblecan.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:13:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Scott R. Lindgren" Subject: Honey and pollen Per the topic of bee removal from supers: I tried the "double triangle" bee escape boards (looks like an inner cover with a screened triangle over the hole) last year and they worked great. My wife likes to help with extracion and she was glad that not one single bee came into the house with the honey supers. I ordered a few more of these escapes for this season. My question for BEE-Lers is this: Is it possible to make a couple bucks from pollen collection? I bought ten pollen traps that have the ability to be turned "on" and "off", but I'm having trouble finding guidelines for management. Should they be "on" for three days and then "off" for three days? What about collection during spring vs. summer vs. fall? Would sugar syrup feeding help during pollen collection? Do medication quidelines apply to pollen (not during Apistan treatment, 30 days after last TM treatment, etc)? Maybe you can't make money with pollen? Any help would be appreciated. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 07:40:15 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Clearing supers > brushing the combs one at a time (and how that infuriates bees) The trick is to shake most of the bees off first with a quivering shake and then brush UPWARDS. Being pushed upwards is quite natural to the bees compared to being brushed down. try it -- you'll like it. We extracted 125 hives many years ago, using only brushing and it was not too bad a task. Remember to carry two brushes and soak the one not in use to remove any honey. Shake to water off and change brushes at any sign of the brush in use loosing its softness. As far as escape boars are concerend, the triangle (either single or double) style far outperform the Porter type in our experience and are pretty rugged to boot. We used them extensively when we were producing hundreds of thousands of comb sections. We found the Porter type too finicky by comparison. If you use escape boards in hot climates, remember to use the kind with a fair sized (double?) screened hole in the centre or your combs will melt -- as one sadder but wiser member reported here recently. If anyone wants a design for a triangle escape, just say the word and I'll whip up a drawing and email it to those who ask. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:03:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug McCulloch Subject: fager corporation Just wondering if anyone had any information on how to contact the "fager corporation". Or perhaps it no longer exists? I have been trying to contact them and order a part for my wax press but to no avail. It seems that they have either moved or no longer exist. What I have: Fager Corporation Kewaunee, Wisconsin (414) 388-4495 If anyone has something else I'd appreciate the information. Thanks very much Doug McCulloch Willowbend Honey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:07:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Apistan Strips In-Reply-To: <199607161944.PAA04375@segwun.muskoka.net> from "David Eyre" at Jul 16, 96 03:41:53 pm Anecdotal reports of "mite" cures can be useful, if they provide some evidence of the claims. We can use all the good leads that we can get for solving these problems. . But, unsupported claims lead to the promulgation of unsubstantiated and sometimes erroneous information. Sometimes the conversations on this list seem to pit beekeepers against researchers. Yet, every beekeeper is a researcher, and every researcher keeps bees. Together, we all want to come up with answers to difficult questions. There are two articles in the last two issues of Bee Culture describing how to conduct a research project. Anyone can do it, but you need to design the study, no matter how small; use appropriate methods; keep good records, and report your results. Throwing something in a hive, than telling everyone that it got rid of the mites, without providing some evidence that this really happened or which mites were controlled doesn't help. Did you include some untreated colonies? If so, did they still have mites? which mites? at what levels? Our own studies show that strong colonies outpace both mites in mid-summer. So, if I throw agent X on a colony at that time, I won't have many mites, because the population dynamics of mites and bees are such that the mite levels will automatically decline. As far as I can see, no one is precluded from testing hives, even with substances that have not been approved for use in hives. The big difference is that those of us who conduct research as our prime occupation NEVER use or market the honey from hives treated with chemicals that have not been approved for use in bee hives. If you as a beekeeper want to do the same, I don't see any problem. But, if you as a beekeeper decide to throw a foreign substance into your producing hives, that is a very different issue. I have seen entire commercial operations running thousands of colonies treating using veterinary chemicals at very high concentrations squirted on cotton balls, paper towels, or cardboard. Ok, so some of you will say that it is the same chemical as in one of the approved strips; so what's the big deal? But, the concentrations are different, the means of dispersing the chemical is different, and the efficacy of using cotton balls has not been demonstrated. Our studies would suggest that a saturated cotton ball almost quarantees a high probability of contamination of the honey and wax. Should beekeepers use unapproved substances on producing colonies - no! Should beekeepers conduct tests - yes! There are a lot more beekeepers than researchers. If everyone got engaged in investigating and solving the problems, odds are that a beekeeper might find answers. Do you need lots of colonies? No! But you need more than 1. You have to replicate your study. Any response in a single colony could be from the luck of the draw. So, minimally you should have two untreated controls and two treated colonies. The treated colonies need to be treated exactly the same (same dose, method of application, etc.). Three replicates is better than two. With two, what do you do if each responds differently? With three, you have a tie breaker. So, ideally, you start with a minumum of 6 hives. Do ewerything the same with these six except for the "treatment". So if you want to soak a coffee filter in peppermint oil and test its effectiveness, you would get six filters and something to measure the weight or volume of the oil. Let's say you use a kitchen teaspoon. Take three coffee filters, put one teaspoon of oil in the center of each of three of the filters (this is probably way too much, but I am just pulling a number out of the air). Don't put any oil on the other three filters (in fact, don't even keep them in the same room as the one in which you pour the oil. Now, go out to your six hives. Give each a number or I.D. Write the six numbers on a scrap of paper, throw the papers in a hat. Draw out the papers and record the numbers in order of being drawn. For example, maybe you got 4, 6, 3, 1, 2, 5. Ok, use hives 4, 6, and 3 for the untreated colonies. Use 1, 2, and 5 for your treated hives. This ranomization step is critical. If you just pick the hives by eyeball, you may unwittingly pick hives that share some trait that could alter the test. For example, maybe you picked strong hives. If so, maybe they are strong because they don't have mites or may be somewhat resistant. If you have more than six hives, number them all, repeat the above, and draw out six numbers for the test. Now, it is obvious that you are going to put your coffee filters soaked in oil in three colonies. But, you have to put unsoaked coffee filters in the other three colonies (your controls). Now, I doubt that coffee filters have any affect on mites, but who would have guessed that oil or grease does? So, you can never assume anything. You also have to conduct some type of test to determine the mite levels before the test (numbers of mites and/or percent of bees infested). You also have to conduct a follow up test. Why is this necessary. Well, when I moved into my home on the mountain above Missoula, we found that the deer liked to sleep in our back yard. An organic gardening expert said deer hated the smell of Irish Spring soap. So, I hung bars of soap from all of our trees. That night, it rained. Next day I found a deer imprint in the grass right under the bar of soap. Not only did the deer not object to the soap, it took a shower! So, I decided the soap trick didn't work. A couple of days later, one of the neighbors asked why the soap in the trees. I told her, including my evidence that it didn't work. But, because someone said it worked, despite evidence to the contrary, she hung soap in her trees. Four years later, we don't have any soap in our trees, but all the neighbors do! And the deer are still coming into the yards and browsing the trees and shrubs. Cheers, Jerry Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:10:28 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Re: Queen Breeding. To those interested in queen rearing: Wicwas Press has in stock Contemporary Queen Rearing by Dr. Harry Laidlaw (1979) available in hardcover for $17.00 plus $2.50 surface postage. We are in the process of producing a new queen rearing book by Drs. Laidlay and Rob Page, both of UCalif, Davis. We are in the final editing stages right now. We expect publication in early 1997. The price has not yet been set. Larry Connor Wicwas Press P.O. Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 USA phone and fax 203 250 7575 ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:25:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William T Padgett Subject: Apistsn stuips In-Reply-To: <960717141027_239757485@emout17.mail.aol.com> I'll try again.... My question, What about re-using apistan stuips? Can you re-seal the strips after their first use and use them again for the next treatment? Yes, or no, and why or why not? Thanks, Tom Padgett Auburn, AL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:25:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Clearing supers On Porter bee escapes: I have been told that they work well when the nights are cool, as the bees leave the super to cluster in the cold, and then can't get back. Unfortunately, near Washington DC we take off our supers during the hot summer months. Since the bees won't leave the supers at night, the Porter bee escapes won't work here. Personally, I use a fume board with Benzaldehyde (synthetic oil of almonds) with excellent results. The stuff smells like almonds, unlike the "gags buzzards" smell of Bee Go. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Apistan strips Should an Apistan strip be re-used? In a word, no. Once they are used, dispose of them. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:55:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Stevens Subject: Re: Clearing supers I understood that Benzaldehyde was banned for use in beehives and no longer available. Where do you obtain it? Someone told me it was a known carcinogin. What's the story? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 18:11:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adony Melathopoulos Subject: Re : Beekeeper Science In-Reply-To: <199607171707.LAA24618@selway.umt.edu> Jerry : I really liked your posting. With federal and university research being cut up here in Canada, and with no interest from major chemical companies to get involved in a 'specialty crop' like honey (especially when it involves cheap, readily available control products such as essential oils), beekeepers should continue to experiment. Restricting these experiments so as they do not comprimise applicator and product safety is an important consideration. I agree that beekeepers need to think about experimental design before actually testing alternative management techniques. Your posting, as well as the Bee Culture article had some very good ideas on how experimental design problems can be addressed. I do not think beekeepers have the time and training to do all the bee research themselves. There is some work that requires the attention of professional bee researchers and the facilities they work out of. Nonetheless, I look forward to a continuing discussion of beekeeper-directed research on BEE-L, and hope that good tactics for dealing with the mite emerge from it. Cheers, Adony ######################################## *** Adony Melathopoulos **************** ***** Center for Pest Management ******* ******** Simon Fraser University ******* *********** Burnaby, British Coumbia *** ************** CANADA ****************** ######################################## 'If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows' - Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, mid-1800's e-mail : melathop@sfu.ca tel : (604) 291-4163 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 21:41:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: - Ed Levi Subject: Re: Apistsn stuips Tom, No, Don't re-use strips. They are formulated with fluvalinate which migrates to the surface. Because there's not an eternal spring of the stuff in a strip - they "run down". As they lose their strength, or weaken, the mites which survive the weaker doses are survivors which can/could breed more survivors which can/could become able to survive a slightly stronger, used strip. The surviving population of mites build a tolerance or resistance to the fluvalinate. This clearly brings us all closer to the point at which time Apistan becomes useless in controlling Varroa. Using chemicals in a manner which is inconsistant to its label instructions is a short-sighted mistake which could do serious damage to the entire industry in terms of the value of honey, resistance, and image. Due to the awakening of the media, we are at a renaisance of respect for bees and, therefore beekeepers. We need to build on this, not tear it down. I am not against research by beekeepers (thank you Jerry) but let's keep research out of the production line until it's tested, proven and approved. Science isn't an overnight process and dreams and wishes don't always come true. "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride." If wishes were cures then mites would die...so would suffering and pain but there aren't always answers just because you want them. Answers needs to be searched and researched. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Apistan strips In-Reply-To: <960717202509_579111347@emout08.mail.aol.com> On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Bill Miller wrote: > Should an Apistan strip be re-used? > > In a word, no. Once they are used, dispose of them. > > W. G. Miller > Gaithersburg, MD > Just an additional note to Mr. Miller's letter... Use care when handling the strips...maybe even latex gloves....they are potentially carcinogenic. I cant remember the source of this info, but i have heard it and its better to be safe than sorry, to quote an oft used expression..:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 23:43:42 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 16 Jul 1996 to 17 Jul 1996 Where can I get some of these bee escape boards? Paul Cronshaw DC Santa Barbara, CA Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:13:00 -0400 From: "Scott R. Lindgren" Subject: Honey and pollen Per the topic of bee removal from supers: I tried the "double triangle" bee escape boards (looks like an inner cover with a screened triangle over the hole) last year and they worked great. My wife likes to help with extracion and she was glad that not one single bee came into the house with the honey supers. I ordered a few more of these escapes for this season. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:15:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kirk Jones Subject: Re: fager corporation >Just wondering if anyone had any information on how to contact the "fager >corporation". Or perhaps it no longer exists? I have been trying to contact >them and order a part for my wax press but to no avail. It seems that they >have either moved or no longer exist. >Doug McCulloch >Willowbend Honey Hello Doug, I believe Cook & Beals, Inc. is now the manufacturer. Give Pat a call. They're in Loup City, Nebraska, I belive. ****************************************************** * Sleeping Bear Apiaries/Kirk Jones (616)882-4456 * * BeeDazzled Candleworks/Sharon Jones (616)882-7765 * * * * email b-man@aliens.com * ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:55:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com Subject: Re[2]: Apistan strips Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Ian, You are correct to recommend the use of gloves when handling Apistan but not for the reason you suggest. Neither Apistan nor its active ingredient, tau-fluvalinate are carcinogenic or "potentially carcinogenic". Long-term stringent tests have proven this fact and is one factor as to why Apistan has been registered as a veterinary drug in most countries. The main reason for using gloves is that slight contact dermatitis is not uncommon when handling any veterinary medicines or pesticides; gloves can prevent skin irritation. To reiterate the several responses to the question of Apistan re-use, strips should not be reused as they have been designed (through extensive research at independent laboratories in France, Germany and the USA to name but a few) to deliver a therapeutic dose over ONE TREATMENT, just as most other veterinary preparations. If you use them more than once you may see mite kill but there is no guarantee that what you see represents sufficient control. As was stated earlier, underdosing may select for more pyrethroid tolerant mites and you put your (and your neighbours') colonies at risk. The recommendation is NOT to reuse Apistan strips. Max ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Apistan strips Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 18/07/96 05:26 On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Bill Miller wrote: > Should an Apistan strip be re-used? > > In a word, no. Once they are used, dispose of them. > > W. G. Miller > Gaithersburg, MD > Just an additional note to Mr. Miller's letter... Use care when handling the strips...maybe even latex gloves....they are potentially carcinogenic. I cant remember the source of this info, but i have heard it and its better to be safe than sorry, to quote an oft used expression..:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:54:53 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: fager corporation At 11:03 AM 7/17/96 -0600, you wrote: >Just wondering if anyone had any information on how to contact the "fager >corporation". Or perhaps it no longer exists? I have been trying to contact >them and order a part for my wax press but to no avail. It seems that they >have either moved or no longer exist. >What I have: Fager Corporation > Kewaunee, Wisconsin (414) 388-4495 >If anyone has something else I'd appreciate the information. >Thanks very much > >Doug McCulloch >Willowbend Honey > I, too, have a Fager press. I believe it is no longer manufactured. I have had to replace some parts and the Alberta Honey Producers Co-op had a similar type conveyor built and may be able to direct you to some components. What parts are you looking for? Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:07:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jay Jones Subject: use of unfiltered honey for the treatment of allergies Comments: cc: serratoa@ULVACS.ULAVERNE.EDU Recently there has been discussion of the use of raw honey in the treatment of allergies. Ostensibly the ingestion of allergens in the honey results in decreased allgergies (e.g. hay fever . . .) We are interested in beginning such a study and have done a pretty thorough search of the literature. Our search did not yield any papers that directly dealt with this problem. We would really appreciate any information that members of this list might have regarding personal experience, references, knowledge of others that may be involved in this type of research. Thanks! Jay Jones Univeristy of La Verne La Verne, CA 91750 909 593-3511 x4040 jonesj@ulvacs.ulaverne.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:32:13 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Queen Breeding. In-Reply-To: <960717141027_239757485@emout17.mail.aol.com> from "owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU" at Jul 17, 96 02:10:28 pm Larry; Please send a copy to me @: William G. Lord Rt. 2 Box 36 Louisburg, NC 27549 VISA 4656 1101 6500 6525 exp 04/97 Thanks, Bill > >To those interested in queen rearing: >Wicwas Press has in stock Contemporary Queen Rearing by Dr. Harry Laidlaw >(1979) available in hardcover for $17.00 plus $2.50 surface postage. >We are in the process of producing a new queen rearing book by Drs. Laidlay >and Rob Page, both of UCalif, Davis. We are in the final editing stages right >now. We expect publication in early 1997. The price has not yet been set. >Larry Connor >Wicwas Press >P.O. Box 817 >Cheshire CT 06410 USA >phone and fax 203 250 7575 >ljconnor@aol.com > > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:33:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Help! I'm being Spamed This is slightly off topic, and I apologize. I've recently started receiving Spam email concerning investment opportunities that I am not interested in from someone with the address of chag@moneyworld.com. I don't know how they got my email address. Is it possible they got it from this list? Is anyone else getting mail from them? I have followed their instructions to be removed from their mailings, but they keep coming. Does anyone have any suggestions how to stop it? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:35:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Apistsn stuips In-Reply-To: On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, William T Padgett wrote: > I'll try again.... My question, What about re-using apistan stuips? > Can you re-seal the strips after their first use and use them again > for the next treatment? Yes, or no, and why or why not? > Thanks, > Tom Padgett > Auburn, AL > Well.....after using the strips for therequired and recommended 6 weeks, the level of chemical (fluvalinate) in the strips has reached a low point because of it migrating to the surface of the plastic. So re-using them would serve no purpose but to make the mites immune to the Fluvalinate because the level of it in the hive is too low to kill most mites and the ones that survive would be tolerant to it...... But, seing how im not an expert in genetics or evolution, I will leave the complete explanation to someone more qualified.. Sufice it to say that the Apistan strips are a "One use treatment". Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:53:16 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Re[2]: Apistan strips In-Reply-To: <0034700002043953000002*@MHS> On Thu, 18 Jul 1996 Max.Watkins@sandoz.com wrote: > Ian, > > You are correct to recommend the use of gloves when handling > Apistan but not for the reason you suggest. Neither Apistan nor its > active ingredient, tau-fluvalinate are carcinogenic or "potentially > carcinogenic". Long-term stringent tests have proven this fact and is > one factor as to why Apistan has been registered as a veterinary drug > in most countries. > > The main reason for using gloves is that slight contact dermatitis is > not uncommon when handling any veterinary medicines or pesticides; > gloves can prevent skin irritation. Well..as i said..i only heard the information about the alleged carcinogenic properties of the drug. And at one time DDT was sprayed around with abandon..and i'm sure it was tested "stringently"...Ah well..:) Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 20:04:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Queen Breeding. In-Reply-To: <199607181232.IAA22577@franklin> On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, WILLIAM G LORD wrote: > Larry; > > Please send a copy to me @: > > William G. Lord > Rt. 2 Box 36 Louisburg, NC 27549 > > VISA 4656 1101 6500 6525 exp 04/97 > > Thanks, > > Bill EEEEEPPPPPPPSSSSS!!!!!!!!..... FOR GOSH SAKES WILLIAM LORD.....DONT GIVE YOUR VISA NUMBER OUT OVER THE LIST....maybe it was a mistake, but sending your visa number to BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU of course sends it to all 400-odd members...and while i like to believe that we are all honourable men and women, there may be one who would take advantage of you and run up your credit card.... Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 21:16:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Alcantar Subject: Where to buy queens? Hi All, I really have learned alot from you folks. I am a begginner and relly like this list. Thanks to all who make this a great list. I live in Tucson, Ariz. I am wondering if anyone can give me a phone number or source to buy queens direct. Thank You All David Alcantar ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 00:21:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Help! I'm being Spamed SP>From: STEVE PHILLIPS >Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:33:40 -0500 >Subject: Help! I'm being Spamed SP>This is slightly off topic, and I apologize. I've recently started receivin >Spam email concerning investment opportunities that I am not interested >in from someone with the address of chag@moneyworld.com. I don't >know how they got my email address. Is it possible they got it from this >list? Is anyone else getting mail from them? SP>I have followed their instructions to be removed from their mailings, but >they keep coming. Does anyone have any suggestions how to stop it? I am also getting this un-requested mail, but have not tried to stop it figuring they would go broke before I did. But for sure they should be put on notice that this kind of activity is not allowed and should not be tolerated, or some such bull. Could be they have read how much honey has gone up in value and figure we all have large amounts of money to invest. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... To sway its silent chimes, else must the bee, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 23:25:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: Baggie Feeder Will you please send me address of source of the baggy feeder.!! How many do you use per hive? AT what point do you put them? about the brood chamber? above the honey supers? VArious? How much liquid do they hold? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 23:30:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Miller Subject: Re: Clearing supers Benzaldehyde is a know carcinogen, but then so are a lot of things we use every day. Bee-go must also be shipped as hazardous material. Although I have never specifically asked if the stuff was still legal, its use has been advocated in meetings in front of the Maryland State Apiary Inspector and our Extension Apiculturist. Neither of them said the stuff was illegal. Anyway, Benzaldehyde is available from Mann Lake (they have a website; search on "Mann lake"). The catalog only lists gallons, but you can get quarts if you call them. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:57:15 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave Black Subject: Re: Help! I'm being Spamed In-Reply-To: In message , STEVE PHILLIPS writes >This is slightly off topic, and I apologize. I've recently started receiving >Spam email concerning investment opportunities that I am not interested >in from someone with the address of chag@moneyworld.com. I have exactly the same problem, I'll watch for suggestions ! -- Dave Black Blacks Bee Gardens, Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 02:10:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gordon Goodwater Subject: Re: Help! I'm being Spamed In-Reply-To: <1A2nsDAb$z7xEwzQ@tfbplc.co.uk> On Fri, 19 Jul 1996, Dave Black wrote: > In message , STEVE PHILLIPS > writes > >This is slightly off topic, and I apologize. I've recently started receiving > >Spam email concerning investment opportunities that I am not interested > >in from someone with the address of chag@moneyworld.com. > I have exactly the same problem, I'll watch for suggestions ! > -- > Dave Black > Blacks Bee Gardens, > Guildford, GU1 4RN. UK. > My suggestion would be that everyone who got spammed should send back the original message with a simple "No thank you" at the bottom. If enough people do this it will burn up some bandwidth but they might get the message. Gordon Washington State U.S.A ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:34:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WILLIAM G LORD Subject: Re: Queen Breeding. In-Reply-To: from "Ian Watson" at Jul 18, 96 08:04:44 pm Well; What can I say. P. T. Barnun said there was one born every minute, not to mention idiots. Its that R key. Needless to say that VISA card has now been cancelled. Bill > >On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, WILLIAM G LORD wrote: > >> Larry; >> >> Please send a copy to me @: >> >> William G. Lord >> Rt. 2 Box 36 Louisburg, NC 27549 >> >> VISA 4656 1101 6500 6525 exp 04/97 >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bill >EEEEEPPPPPPPSSSSS!!!!!!!!..... > >FOR GOSH SAKES WILLIAM LORD.....DONT GIVE YOUR VISA NUMBER OUT OVER THE >LIST....maybe it was a mistake, but sending your visa number to >BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU of course sends it to all 400-odd members...and >while i like to believe that we are all honourable men and women, there >may be one who would take advantage of you and run up your credit card.... > > Ian Watson > iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca > > -- WILLIAM G LORD E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:29:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Clowes Subject: Re: Re[2]: Apistan strips Nice answer Max Ian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:12:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Credit info Dear List Members -- I ask that credit card customers call or fax me with credit card information. My phone machine is on 24 hrs, and is heard only by myself. So leave your number and expiry date on the machine. If you want to sent your cc info over the internet, send it directly to ljconnor@aol.com. Don't use the reply key!!! I DO NOT recommend use of the internet for purchases at his point, since I don't know how secure it is. We will hold books and wait for your check, it you want a fall-back system. Send your order by email and we will hold. For overseas customers, I will glady provide you with a quote which includes shipping costs, so you know exactly how much to send, and if items are still available. I have over 700 books, video programs, slide sets, charts, etc. on the inventory list, so we deal with a lot of different products. Of these over half are still available. I will smail a list to anyone,without charge. Don't forget to send my your address. I tried sending the slide list vit Bee-L several months ago, and got more grumbling than anything else... A web site for Wicwas Press is on the To Do list... Cheers! Larry Connor Wicwas Press P.O. Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 Phone and Fax 203 250 7575 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:20:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerry Visel Subject: Credit info -Reply Comments: To: LJConnor@aol.com It is never a good idea to send a credit card number over the internet. Yet, at least. The search engines on the web can find messages, even if they are not sent to a list server, making it real easy to read someone's mail. Always use the phone or snail mail. Gerry Visel GCVisel@SNDS.COM phone: (815) 226-6620 fax: (815) 394-5438 or -2827 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 21:22:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Credit info -Reply In-Reply-To: To all BEE-L subscribers: I would just like to appologise for my goof-up when i re-posted Bill Lord's visa number to the list.....In my sincere and good-natured haste to point out the dangers of posting credit information...i neglected to edit my letter.... Ian Watson iwatson@freenet.npiec.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 01:19:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Credit info >From: "" >To: Multiple recipients of list BEE-L >Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:12:45 -0400 >Subject: Credit info HI Larry, >I ask that credit card customers call or fax me with credit card information. >My phone machine is on 24 hrs, and is heard only by myself. So leave your >number and expiry date on the machine. This is best and if you keep it on file, they can use the internet to order at another time without sending the numbers. I have found this to work very well myself... >key!!! I DO NOT recommend use of the internet for purchases at his point, >since I don't know how secure it is. It is NOT secure at all from e-mail, it can be read by at least 20,000 sysops and who know how many of them are in prison. It can be very secure from a WEB page with a little effort. >forget to send my your address. I tried sending the slide list vit Bee-L >several months ago, and got more grumbling than anything else... Send any lists in ascii to me and I will be happy to make them available to only those who ask for them from my Beekeeper Auto Response system. ttul Andy- sysop@beenet.com --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ ... The bee, dost thou forget? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 10:06:15 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Moving Electronic Hives across the country Hi: Some members of this list have expressed interest in our electronic hives, equipped with bidirectional bee entrance counters, strain guages to measure weight changes, temperature and relative humidity probes in the brood chamber, and hot wire anemometers to measure air flow in the hive, and clock driven pollen traps. In addition, our hives are fitted with chemical sampling equipment for volatile chemicals in the hive atmospheres (sorption tubes and battery operated pumps). Descriptions of last year's model appear on our web page http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees. Next week, we hope to conduct the annual migration from Montana to Maryland. The trip is 2500 miles - we made it both ways in mid-August last year. We will be carrying 21 electonic units containing nucleus colonies of bees, and an additional 16 nucleus colonies for additional chemical sampling. All of this is mounted on a 6x14 ft, dual axle trailer. All colonies are certified disease free and have been treated for mites. All units are sealed and bee tight. Ventilation is provide by a sysstem of screened louvres and electric fans. When on the highway, the fans are off, when stopped, we turn them on to provide additional air flow to the confined colonies. An electric pump and drip irrigation system provides water to the confined bees. We monitor hive temperatures as we travel and give the bees water when the core temperatures begin to climb. Moving bees across the U.S. in mid-summer is not my idea of a fun trip, but part of the proof of our concept is that we can deliver our environmental monitoring system anywhere, anytime. Last year we made the trip in 3 1/2 days. We carried 6 units to Maryland and returned three weeks later. Total loss for round trip, about 1 1/2 cup of dead bees per unit - with each unit containing 3-4 pounds of bees. Hopefully we do as well this year. I mention this to the list because of the interest expressed in our system. We will be pushing hard to get to MD a.s.a.p. However, we will be traveling through lots of states. Last year some folks met us at pull-offs from the highway to see and talk about what we have. We have also contemplated stopping for a day mid-way across the country to let the bees fly. 4 days is a long time to stay confined to a hive. Can't say when we will leave - but I am guessing Wednesday or Thursday. Arrival in MD early next week. Cheers Jerry Bromenshenk The University of Montana jjbmail@selway.umt.edu 406-243-5648 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:20:54 +1100 Reply-To: nickw@wave.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Nat Beekeepers Assn of NZ Subject: South African bkprs... A local NZ beekeeper is on his way to South Africa in the next few weeks, and asked if I would put out a request for any beekeepers who might be willing to let him visit to talk bees and beekeeping. His name is Lee Crawshaw, and if you send email to me directly, I'll make sure he gets it before he leaves. Thanks! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.wave.co.nz/pages/nickw/nzbkpg.htm -- End --