========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:46:25 +1100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Compensation claim from worker In-Reply-To: <05305386331317@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > to contribute to tooth decay. I would think dentist literature is the only > place you will find surveys of tooth decay causes. Know a friendly > dentist? I've always quoted literature that said that levulose had a lower cavity causing ability than either sucrose or dextrose, but I'd be hard pressed to lay my hands on the paper. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Sugar syrup to beeswax At our shows and in our publicity, I quote 6 kilos of honey to make one kilo of beeswax. I remember reading, a log time ago, the figure some where of 6 to 1 ratio of honey to beeswx. With sugar syrup, I would imagine it would depend on the strength of the sugar syrup. As sugar syrup does not have as higher a concentration of "sugars" as sugar syrup, I would have thought the ratio would be higher. Beeswax is certainly not 6 times the price of honey so I tell the public that is why we put drawn combs back in our hives and don't just cut up the comb and strain the honey out. It is not profitable to have bees drawing beeswax. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:57:00 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Graham Read EOS Subject: hive population ? Out of curiosity, I'm interested in tracking the changes in hive population, and so I was wondering, is there any way to roughly estimate the number of bees in a hive ? I considered: * weighing the hive, but of course that includes all the honey etc, and I'd probably need a small crane to lift it anyway ! * tipping all the bees out into an empty box, and weighing that, but that seems a rather an unfair disturbance on the poor old bees (particularly the queen). Any ideas, perhaps it's possible to estimate the no. of bees based on no. of frames covered ? Thanks Graham grahamr@eos.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:44:05 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: NYTimes Sunday Magazine article Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > One must remember that the only power the bureaucrats have it the power to >say no. > I keep 24 hives in Connecticut and the last involvement wanted other than >registering with the state entomologist for hive inspection is with the local >apparatchiks. > Urban beekeeping is more like hey buddy you garden -got room for a >couple hives? > Very true - our Council has regulations that bees cannot be kept in residential areas without Council permission - but if permission can be refused without any reasons being given, is there any value in asking? I receive referrals from the Council to collect swarms and solve feral hive problems so if I have a hive or two around the back yard this is assumed to be short term storage. It is important always to have a reserve site for removal of hives to in the event of unwelcome interest. Since all hives are registered with the State Primary Industry Apiaries Officer, surely the local council should leave enforcement to this department. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Lots of Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Its July and the tempertures are in the mid 90s. I have noticed lots of >bees on the front of one of my hives but not the others. I have 5 hives. >I wondering if adding another super or leaving a space with space between >the hive cover and top super would help in cooling this hive. Is there a >chance that hive may swarm? If the bees have have mostly filled the super, it is time to add another one. It is also advisable to check the queen is laying well as bees clustering when other hives are working may be a symptom of queen trouble. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: A wandering queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Yestersday (Sunday) afternnon, I was at the hive, watching the bees > come and go (as you do) in what seemed like the first decent day for > ages. I looked at the ground and noticed my clipped queen wandering > around next to my foot. I got her to crawl onto a leaf and put her > back into the hive through the entrance, but I am perplexed and > worried about how she got out of the hive. Does anyone have any > thoughts? > > My guesses so far have been > > 1. I clumsily knocked her off a frame when I opened the hive a few > days ago and she's been on the ground ever since Possible. > > 2. She went for a wander and just fell off the alighting board Unlikely that she left the hive without a definite destination in mind. > > 3. The bees tried to swarm (or even did swarm) and, because she's > clipped, she just fell off the alighting board Very likely. > > 4. The other bees pushed her out of the hive for some reason Unlikely. Hives make collective decisions. If the queen was not performing they would make queen cells rather than evicting the only one they have. > > A beekeeping friend has suggested I wait a couple of days then check > the hive throroughly, making sure she is there and laying, and that > there are no queen cells. Very good advice. > I also had a subsidiary question: when I looked at the hive on friday, > there were a few bumblelbees hanging around underneath it and, > seemingly, harassing those honey bees which were on their own (below > the level of the hive entrance), but the bumblebees did not seem to be > trying to get into the hive - any thoughts? I would suspect attempted robbing by the bumble bees. > Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harvey Hyde Organization: Government of Prince Edward Island Subject: Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An article in June Consumers' Research on Sting Treatment quotes researcher P.Kirk Visscher saying pinching the stinger to remove it "doesn't drive venom past the pump". The important thing is to get the stinger out as quickly as possible to prevent swelling. -- Harvey Hyde RR#2 Cornwall, PEI Canada C0A-1H0 hhyde@cycor.ca http://www.angelfire.com/hi/HarveyHyde ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:24:23 +1100 Reply-To: p.bray@airborne.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Subject: Re: Sugar syrup to beeswax In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Paul Basehore wrote: > > > >I have read something on how many gallons of sugar syrup it takes for > > >bees to make a pound of beeswax. > > >Anyone have any ideas? > > >All answers will be appreciated. > > >Thanks, > > >Mark > > > > > I think it is 4 pounds of honey to make 1 pound of wax > > Is the price of beeswax 4 times the price of honey, then? > > Robert C.L. Watson > rwatson1@freenet.npiec.on.ca > pipe organ technician organist - choirmaster early woodwind player > hobby beekeeper homebrewer tenor > There are various studies showing levels of between 7:1 and 18:1. The latest copy of "The Hive and the Honey Bee" has references to more recent work that points to the higher ratio. Peter Bray, Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@airborne.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:38:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brenda Wishin Subject: Re: Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where can I find this article? Could you send me a copy? How did you find this source? ---------- > From: Harvey Hyde > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Stings > Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 1:14 PM > > An article in June Consumers' Research on Sting Treatment quotes > researcher P.Kirk Visscher saying pinching the stinger to remove it > "doesn't drive venom past the pump". The important thing is to get the > stinger out as quickly as possible to prevent swelling. > -- > Harvey Hyde > RR#2 Cornwall, PEI Canada C0A-1H0 > hhyde@cycor.ca http://www.angelfire.com/hi/HarveyHyde ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 11:49:43 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The following was taken from _The_Lancet_, which is a medical journal on the internet fount at: http://www.thelancet.com REMOVING BEE STINGS: SPEED MATTERS, METHOD DOESN'T (pp 301-02) If you are stung by a bee, get the sting out of your skin as quickly as possible, no matter how. That is the practical message reached by two Californian scientists who describe stinging themselves with bees in the interest of science in The Lancet this week. Kirk Visscher and Richard Vetter, who study insects at the University of California, Riverside, questioned whether the conventional advice to scrape the sting apparatus out the skin, perhaps with a knife blade or credit card, is sound. Or, they postulated, should you pinch the sting out with fingers or forceps? "Volunteers me and me" was the order of the day. With a lucky (or wise) medical colleague, Scott Camazine from Pennsylvania State University, as observer only, Visscher and Vetter drew up their shirt sleeves and "collected a worker honey bee as she flew from her hive, grasped her by the wings, and pressed her against the skin" until they were stung, twenty times in all in each volunteer. Two seconds later, the stingers scraped the sting off with a credit card or pinched it out with their thumb and forefinger. Camazine measured the size of the wealts that appeared ten minutes later. There was no difference in the size of the weal after scraping or pinching: means of 80 and 74 mm2, respectively. Visscher did other self-experiments, involving a total of fifty forearm stings. The sting was left in for between half and eight seconds, and Camazine measured the wealts ten minutes later. The mean weal size increased the longer the sting was left in, from just over 60 to about 82 mm2, which is why fast removal is a good idea. Bee stings are painful and sometimes fatal. About 17 people die each year in the USA after being stung by bees. When the honey bee stings, the sting embeds in the skin along with a venom sac, a nerve cell, some muscles, and the end of the bee's abdomen. Barbs on the sting itself work deeper into the flesh as the muscles contract. The contractions also pump venom from the sac via a valve and piston. The longer the sting is in, the more venom is released. Hence the advice from the researchers to get the sting out as quickly as possible. Bees also release an alarm chemical when they sting that attracts other bees to come and sting you. If you are stung by an Africanized bee (a cross-breed noted for its aggression, and sweeping northward in the Americas), the researchers modify their advice. Run away fast, they say, before worrying about removing any stings. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:51:35 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Lots of Bees In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970708124411.0067d164@kigateway.kin.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, j h & e mcadam wrote: > >Its July and the tempertures are in the mid 90s. I have noticed lots of > >bees on the front of one of my hives but not the others. I have 5 hives. > >I wondering if adding another super or leaving a space with space between > >the hive cover and top super would help in cooling this hive. Is there a > >chance that hive may swarm? > > If the bees have have mostly filled the super, it is time to add another > one. It is also advisable to check the queen is laying well as bees > clustering when other hives are working may be a symptom of queen trouble. > > Hello Betty and All, Bee populations this spring and summer in western Washington USA have been very high. We have been having rain about 90% of the time and the bees could not fly.The queen keeps laying and very few were dieing , do to no flight. A friend told me that he had 19 calls in 2 days to pick up swarms.I helped out a couple of 2 year beekeepers that thought, just putting on another box would stop the swarming. The problem is congestion in the bottem box. Remove a couple frames with brood and put it in the center of the top box. The bees that they had swarming were new starts this year.Also check the bottem box frames for drone brood comming off of the bottem bar of the frames.That can reduce the air flow in the hive. I had a few of my hives that looked almost solid with very little bee space looking from the bottem up. I have had some of my hives swarm. Do to the weather , I have not checked them as close as normal. I have 180 hives and it has been a chore to keep up with the bees this year. The weather that we are having in western Washington this year , may be natures way to replenish the feral colonies.We don't like to loose our bees to swarming , but it is the reason we still have bees on this Earth.They have been around for a long time and they are needed to keep nature in balance.If you loose a swarm now and then , it is helping Mother Earth to get back into balance. We can't change Nature , we can only observe and try to understand it as we take our journey through life. Bees are wonderful creatures and we are very blessed to be beekeepers. We see nature more as a whole as we learn more about our bees.We will never understand everything about Honey Bees.We just get bits and pieces and they are all wonderful. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:55:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "P. Aras et M. Boily" Subject: Re: Humming bird feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ed, Some feeders have the internal level of nectar that come very close to the feeding holes, making it possible for bees and wasps to reach the liquid. Maybe you should look for the models where the feeding opening is the highest in relation to the opening of the bottle that holds the nectar when the feeder is mounted. Hope this makes sense to you. Or else you could try to install short pieces of plastic tubing over the feeding holes so that the insects tongue can not reach the nectar. Philippe Carillon, PQ. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:57:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: Compensation claim from worker -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In reply to Peter Bray's request for help regarding a former employee claiming that honey accelerated his tooth decay: Peter, given the long-established antiseptic qualities of honey, perhaps you could counter-claim that the honey your employee stole would have actually inhibited his tooth decay by killing the bacteria responsible. Perhaps Dr Peter Molan at the University of Waikato, New Zealand, who has recently published on the antibacterial properties of honey could help you? Regards, Barry J. Donovan Canterbury Agriculture and Science Centre, Lincoln. New Zealand. DonovanB@Crop.cri.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:12:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Chester T. Lauck" Subject: Re: Lots of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, Two things could be happening, but here in Virginia, when we are in the middle of our honey flow as we are now, we find that we either placed an excluder on a hive that would not accept it, or we need to add another super. We add a piece of twig in between the inner cover and top to aid in ventilation and try to place them in cool and shaded areas. Lots of luck, Chester Lauck, J&J Farm/Apiary. ---------- > From: Mark Franklin Almond > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Lots of Bees > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 12:49 AM > > Its July and the tempertures are in the mid 90s. I have noticed lots of > bees on the front of one of my hives but not the others. I have 5 hives. > I wondering if adding another super or leaving a space with space between > the hive cover and top super would help in cooling this hive. Is there a > chance that hive may swarm? > All replies will be helpful. > Thank you, > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:36:01 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JRmintin@AOL.COM Subject: Re: hive population ? i give each one of my bees a name. this helps keep track of them. lately i have been running out of names we all have problems Jerry the beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:29:12 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Stings In a message dated 97-07-08 19:48:31 EDT, you write: << REMOVING BEE STINGS: SPEED MATTERS, METHOD DOESN'T (pp 301-02) >> Maybe they did not ask any beekeepers who just rub the sting out with whatever is handy- hiv tool trouser leg what have you and puff a bit of smoke to hide the alarm scent and go back to what they are doing. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:29:35 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: hive population ? In-Reply-To: <970708183518_-24074977@emout03.mail.aol.com>; from "JRmintin@AOL.COM" at Jul 8, 97 6:36 pm According to JRmintin@AOL.COM: > > i give each one of my bees a name. this helps keep track of them. lately i > have been running out of names we all have problems Jerry the beekeeper > I only name the queens. Keeps things simpler. In case of a supercedure or swarm the new queen gets the same name, with a Roman numeral after it (II, III, IV) as with human royalty. If you really want to name them all, you could thus recycle the names about every 6 weeks. Hope this helps. Regards, Fred ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:44:44 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Best Web Sites List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Now that there are getting to be more bee sites on the web every day, many of us have given up trying to maintain lists on our web pages -- or even to try to bookmark them. Therefore, I wonder who has the most up-to-date and definitive list of beekeeping related sites -- preferably catagorized and maybe with comments? (I don't mean the just results of some search -- I mean rather a selected and carefully maintained list). Any nominations for the best? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:24:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Margaret Maringgele Subject: Earwigs in hive covers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm having a problem with earwigs. There are masses of them on the underside of my hive lids. Do earwigs harm the bees? Is there a safe way to get rid of the earwigs without harming the bees. I appreciate any advice or ideas. Thankyou. Hubert Vancouver Island, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:17:48 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8BEC.CA6FD280" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BEC.CA6FD280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been wondering about this too. A film of mineral oil floating on a = cup of tea with my honey in it would be unacceptable! I know someone = who was using Crisco patties year-round for a while. She had no sign of = mites but there was an oil slick on her tea. I'm not that desperate = yet. Hopefully this isn't a problem with the current system, but I'd = like to hear more on the subject before I oil up my equipment. ---------- From: Trevor Weatherhead[SMTP:queenbee@gil.com.au] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 1997 7:20 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil there is one aspect that has not been raised to date which I believe is important. Does the mineral oil become a residue in the honey? Judging by the application method there must be a possibility that it will enter the = honey at some time. I realise that it is food grade mineral oil that is used but, as mineral = oil is not a natural occuring part of honey, then any that finds it way into = honey must be classed as a residue. 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The background: Some neighbors called and had a swarm, about two to three weeks old, exposed on the second story in their eves. After spending a considerable amount of time removing the combs, one by one, I did manage to take a lot of the swarm, including the queen, and put it in a brood chamber. They already had capped brood, eggs, pollen and honey. This was a full blown hive. My problem - the sections of comb, mostly brood comb, are just arranged in a pile inside the hive. The combs are of course very fragile when not suspended from something. I have tried to put some between frames (some drawn, others foundation) to support them, but for the most part, it is just a pile of brood comb in the middle of the hive body. I am not sure how to save all this brood comb (to allow the colony to build) and at the same time have the hive start building into a regular 10-frame brood box. Has anyone experienced this type of situation and have some suggestions? I am located in the western part of Oregon (near Portland). Rick Grossman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 06:54:17 -0600 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Randy, Isa & Alina Chase" Subject: Re: Earwigs in hive covers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our chickens, ducks and guienia fowl do a pretty good job of keeping the earwig population under control before they take up residence in the hives. This year I have found that a spider has usually taken up residence in the hive cover area. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:58:14 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Earwigs in hive cover MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A good organic earwig trap is a hollow tube (such as a hollow bamboo shoot or the cardboard spacer on the bottom of clothes hangers. Earwigs hide out in the tube and can be captured/destroyed by shaking them out of the tube into some soapy water. This tip came from Rodale's _Encyclopedia_of_Organic_Gardening_. Why do they call it an earwig anyway? It has no ears, it has no wig, what's earwig all about? Jerry Seinfeld ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:14:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Brood dimensions Hi Curtis A standard cut 1" X 10" is now 3/4" X 9 1/2". Many beekeepers ??? use this size to make brood boxes with as it is less expensive than buying a 1" X 12" (3/4" X 11 1/2") In our area it causes no problems (We only use one deep brood box and one shallow super under the excluder anyway.) The extra depth is over the bottom board and causes no problems. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com On Sun, 6 Jul 1997 04:53:37 +0000 Curtis Atkinson writes: >I have some homemade broods that are 9 1/2 deep rather than 9 5/8. > >Will that 1/8 inch make any differences? >Curtis Atkinson >2701 S. Caraway >Jonesboro, Ar 72401 >501-932-7838 >catkinson@intellinet.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:14:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Lots of Bees My hives have been very busy this month. Last week I added supers on all but one. All hives have spacers for nine frames each. It does help some with the heat and humidity. (These are standard ten frame hives.) Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com On Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:22:54 -0400 Eugene Makovec writes: >of >hives. >between >there a > >I've noticed the same thing on one of my 3 hives. This is my busiest >hive -- >>From a starter 3-pound package on April 1, they're on their super. I >first >thought their habit of clustering on front of hive was from the heat, >and I >put a stick between 2 supers for ventilation. But this past weekend >temps >were in the 70s and when I checked them they were on the front again. >Any explanation would be appreciated. > >Eugene Makovec >Kirkwood, MO > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:14:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: Handling a twoweek old swarm Hi Rick The easiest way to handle the "Loose Comb" is to lay it flat on a board and cut it to fit in a frame. Place them in a frame and hold them in place with rubber bands or string. The bees will draw comb around and tie it all together. If you don't get up off of the bottom board, you could have a problem with wax worms soon. Just a couple of pieces in each should do it. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com On Wed, 9 Jul 1997 05:16:37 +0000 Rick Grossman writes: >I need some advice on how to successfully develop a two week old swarm >that >I have captured. The background: Some neighbors called and had a >swarm, >about two to three weeks old, exposed on the second story in their >eves. >After spending a considerable amount of time removing the combs, one >by one, >I did manage to take a lot of the swarm, including the queen, and put >it in >a brood chamber. They already had capped brood, eggs, pollen and >honey. >This was a full blown hive. My problem - the sections of comb, mostly >brood >comb, are just arranged in a pile inside the hive. The combs are of >course >very fragile when not suspended from something. I have tried to put >some >between frames (some drawn, others foundation) to support them, but >for the >most part, it is just a pile of brood comb in the middle of the hive >body. >I am not sure how to save all this brood comb (to allow the colony to >build) >and at the same time have the hive start building into a regular >10-frame >brood box. Has anyone experienced this type of situation and have >some >suggestions? I am located in the western part of Oregon (near >Portland). > >Rick Grossman > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:14:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert E Neely Subject: Re: NEWbee questions... Comments: To: rcanaday@ionet.net Hi Roy: On Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:39:35 -0600 Roy Canaday writes: >My first attempt at questions, of which we have several... > This is our second year of 'beekeeping'. Lost first (only) hive >last yr due to mites, oppossums, wax moths (translated => >ignorance)... >started this year with two, each w/a 3 lb. package & queen. >So far, looking fairly good w/2 deeps & 2 shallows about full on each, >but I suspect some basic mistakes. >1) re spacing of frames - the supers appear to be wide enough for > about 10 1/2 frames; should frames be evenly spread across super, >or > should they be adjacent to each other w/empty space at one side? > We spaced 'em evenly & have trouble inspecting without damaging >them. 1. There is a spacer available from DADANT SUPPLY for either 9 OR 10 frames. I run nine frames in my hives. This makes for easy inspections with less chance of mashing the queen. In the supers, the comb is usuall drawn out full which makes uncapping easier with a knife. >2) re wax moths - granted, we shouldn't have had to deal with them, >but 2. By restricting the size of the entrance to 1 1/2" to 2" will make it easier for the bees to defend the hive. After a month it may be increased to 3" to 4". This also helps to prevent robbing while feeding sugar syrup to a new hive. > would cedar top/bottom boards (frames?) reduce this nuisance? >3) starting small, we have no extractor. One of our books mentions >that > NO upper entrance is provided if cut-comb honey is produced, with >no > explanation why? Looks like a long, crowded trip from the hive > entrance to the shallow supers. Any thoughts? >We have a few more questions, but will save them for later. Thank you >very much in advance for any insight or guidance. 73's to you HAMS, >too. > 3 .An upper entrance would invite pollen in the cut comb. (Yuck) Or possibly brood if you are not using an excluder to keep the queen down. I have never produced cut-comb honey. We did produce "Chunk Honey" at one time. We just cut out a piece of comb honey approx. 2" wide and placed it in a jar and filled it with honey. Replace the frame and it was quickly rebuilt and filled. The scrap honey was strained through cheeze cloth. (Put the honey in a square of cloth draped in a large mixing bowl, gather up the corners and twist and squeeze.) It also must be filtered and settled out to clear it up. Caution: Always leave at least one inch of comb at the top of the frame. They will fill it in from there. Bob Neely Goose Creek, SC neely-bee@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:50:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: hive population ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:36 PM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >i give each one of my bees a name. this helps keep track of them. lately i >have been running out of names we all have problems Jerry the beekeeper > I taught my bees to move in a forward and backward motion with there bodies while vigerously rubbing the landing board with their two front feet in the opisite motion. And now I find out there is even a name for this feat, called washboarding ;) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:56:14 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Ellman Subject: wastewater and apiculture: historic problems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I'm a hydrologist in Tucson, Arizona doing development work in Latin America. My company, which specializes in design and construction of subsurface flow constructed wetlands for wastewater treatment, is increasingly trying to incorporate micro-enterprise opportunities into our wastewater treatment systems. We were recently shortlisted for a grant to development a constructed wetland in Mexico that will grow mesquite seedlings (for eventual use as firewood, fodder and landscaping) and gourds (for the hand-tooled crafts market). Because we will have an abundance of flowering vegetation we intend to establish a couple of trial beehives as well and have contracted with a Mexican ag. extension service to provide that expertise. While all untreated wastewater will be below ground and protected by a 6" gravel cap some concern has nonetheless been raised about the sanitation issues related to apiculture and wastewater. In particular, the editors of the Journal of Environmental Health to whom I have submitted an article on the project, report anecdotal evidence of problems with contaminated honey, particularly honey originating from Mexico. Are any of you aware of such a history or such problems? A search of the internet has yielded little so far, other than your list's address. Any help that any of you might be would be much appreciated. Sincerely, Eric Ellman Environmental Compliance International P.O. Box 85073 Tucson, AZ 85754 (520) 623-8832 e-mail: wetland@goodnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:56:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: TBH Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've finally gotten around to some updating on the tbh webpage at: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm I've added a page written by Jimmy Mahuron on his construction of a KTBH. It has seven photos provided by Jimmy. I've reduced the size of the photos about as much as I could, but the load time is still about 3.5 minutes at 14.4. The photo of the hive hanging beneath the catalpa tree is worth the visit and wait.:) I've also added some more names of tbh beekeepers to the "list" link. If you keep tbh's and would like to be added to the list, send me the information to include, especially any comments you'd like appended. The site continues to be visited often. I am happy that many have found the information helpful. I think the plans are perhaps buried a little too much in some of the pages, so I'll be making up a section on plans for the home page and compiling the links for easier access. I'm sure many visitors are looking for plans first, and then may come back for more information. I hope that your beekeeping year is going well. Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:31:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tnx for the answer, but just what do you do with the cappings and honey drips. I put it all in the freezer for now, as even the supers have a little honey left in them. I was going to put the shallow supers back on the hive to be cleaned up, but didnt know if under the inner cover or above it was the best way to go. Ive done very well on honey this year, both dark and lite. WALT, MARTIN, SC. ---------- > From: Robert E Neely > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 12:38 PM > > Hi Walt: > Leaving your extractor open could encourage "Robbing" . This may cause > you to lose a colony or two. > > Bob Neely > Goose Creek, SC > neely-bee@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:53:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee > on the hive to be cleaned up, but didnt know if under the inner cover or > above it was the best way to go. Go above the inner cover. Herb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:05:17 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "M.S.Bain" Subject: Re: wastewater and apiculture: historic problems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT There has been much in the press lately about Clostridium botulinum spores remaining viable in honey and causing botulism in children of less than 1 year old. As this organism is fairly widespread in the soil and could be in much higher levels in wastewater this could prove a risk. The majority of bacteria present in wastewater would tend to be vegetative forms of E.coli, Salmonella etc and these should not survive in honey due to its natural antiseptic properties and dehydrating effect.The risk from these therefore is minimal. It is the spore formers like Clostridia and Bacillus species that would give more cause for concern. AFB spores cetainly remain viable in honey and this feature is used in some countries to monitor the disease. M.S.Bain Lacon Villa Nook Lane Weston under Redcastle Shrewsbury SY4 5LP England Tel +44(0)1948 841249 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:40:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dusty Rhodes Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil In-Reply-To: <01BC8BEC.CA66AAC0@C6.hotcity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:17 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: > >I've been wondering about this too. A film of mineral oil floating on a cup of tea with my honey in it would be unacceptable! Would disolved Apistan or other insectacide be more to your taste? Can you offer a less toxic or less "offensive" solution to the mite problem? Just curious.. Dusty Angel's Old Town HomeBrew http://www.netropolis.net/dusty/homebrew.htm Beauty is in the hands of the beerholder! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:37:06 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Washboarding movement: forward and backward movement at the hive entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As far as I know this movement indicates a nectar shortage.=20 Regards. Martin ---------- > From: Paul Basehore > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: hive population ? > Date: mi=E9rcoles 9 de julio de 1997 11:50 >=20 > At 06:36 PM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: > >i give each one of my bees a name. this helps keep track of them. late= ly i > >have been running out of names we all have problems Jerry the beekeepe= r > > >=20 > I taught my bees to move in a forward and backward motion with there bodies > while vigerously rubbing the landing board with their two front feet in the > opisite motion. >=20 > And now I find out there is even a name for this feat, called washboarding ;) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:36:40 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Michael Reddell wrote: Dear Friends: It is saddening for me to see people making arguments (pro or contra) just about any subject for the sake of argumentation. I agree, that everyone under the sun is entitled to his/her own opinion BUT to me it does not make sense to opine if one is bordering on the ridiculous. To opine against the use of mineral oil because one person does not like the idea of the possibility of mineral oil getting into ones beverage is as incomprehensible as the person who says that he/she will not fly airplanes because airplanes may crash. I am sure that readers on this list will most likely find more suitable comparisons, but be it as it may, the type of argument can cause serious damage to the present method of bee mites treatment with mineral oil, especially when I have insisted that only medicinal, FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL, should be used. I have not measured analytically the presence of oil in honey. I do not have the means nor the funds to undertake that type of study. I am sure that investigators with such means will soon undertake the task. I am proud of my contribution to beekeeping and to humanity. I have and I am still providing updates on my findings about the use of FG mineral oil for the treatment of bee mites. I truly believe that the method has great potential for the control of bee mites. It not only offers a control method for bee mites but also a substitute method for the elimination of toxic substances from our food chain. I think that consumers who are becoming ever so more conscious about their food sources will soon be looking for honey labeled as free of pesticides. It is to the best interest of those of us who love our bees and the art of beekeeping to promote systems or methods that work toward that purpose. I think that waiting until further testing (if you want to take your chances of losing some of your bees to Varroa) of the use of mineral oil before trying the method is the prerogative of each individual. To knock the method on the world wide web based on one's individual ideas, I think is damaging to beekeeping. My opinion. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:18:50 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dusty Rhodes wrote: > Would disolved Apistan or other insectacide be more to your taste? > Can you offer a less toxic or less "offensive" solution to the mite problem? what about the http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:25:17 +0000 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Brood dimensions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert E Neely wrote: > > Hi Curtis > A standard cut 1" X 10" is now 3/4" X 9 1/2". Many beekeepers ??? use > this size to make brood boxes with as it is less expensive than buying a > 1" X 12" (3/4" X 11 1/2") > In our area it causes no problems (We only use one deep brood box and one > shallow super under the excluder anyway.) The extra depth is over the > bottom board and causes no problems. > > Bob Neely > Goose Creek, SC > neely-bee@juno.com > > On Sun, 6 Jul 1997 04:53:37 +0000 Curtis Atkinson > writes: > >I have some homemade broods that are 9 1/2 deep rather than 9 5/8. > > > >Will that 1/8 inch make any differences? > >Curtis Atkinson > >2701 S. Caraway > >Jonesboro, Ar 72401 > >501-932-7838 > >catkinson@intellinet.com > > Hi Bob - Here in the Midwest, I haven't been able to buy 1X10 lumber that measures 9-1/2" for many years. Everything around here measures 9-1/4" and that just won't cut it for brood chambers so 1X12's are the thing to use here. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:24:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James Meehan Subject: Re: Handling a twoweek old swarm I heard of someone actually attaching the comb to the frames with rubberbands and letting the bees figure out what to do. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:26:09 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James R Shaver Subject: Re: Bee question Try William Safire at The New York Times. Jim Shaver On Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:02:06 +0000 "Malcolm Tom Sanford, Extension Apiculturist" writes: >Sorry, I can't help you on this. Am sending it out to another >list on bees to see if there is any help there. > >Tom Sanford > >At 04:28 PM 7/1/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Hello! >> >>I'm a reference librarian at a university in Texas. I have had a >>question from a patron, couldn't answer with standard ref. sources, >>threw it out to the incredible WWW listserv "Stumpers" which is a >>collaboration of librarians across the world and they have suggested >>that this mysterious word is bee-related. >> >>I am trying to find the meaning of the word: >> >>apisling >> >>A patron's family is described in a 1870 Georgia (USA) census as >>'apislings on a farm'. >> >>I've used the Oxford English Dictionary plus several other general >>English language dictionaries with no luck. Is this word in fact >>in the vocabulary of beekeepers? >> >>thanks so much for any hints! >> >>Pam Spooner (whose flower garden is nicely full of bees!) >>Wildenthal Memorial Library >>Sul Ross State University, Alpine >> > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 05:36:09 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is not either apistan or mineral oil in honey. It is none of both. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:13:40 GMT+0 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "p.munn" Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: noxious substances in honey Dear all, Discussion of honey contaminated with insecticide or mineral oil must have been buzzing around in the back of my head last night when I was reading a gardening mag and came across a description of a species called 'Aconitum' that said almost as an afterthought 'all parts of the plant are highly poisonous'. Does that mean the nectar too? I asked myself. And if the bees take it, is the poison altered at all, or rendered harmless within the hive? Does it remain as a trace? The only poisonous plant I've ever had in my garden is the foxglove. These grow wild in the British countryside and the bumble bees make an awful racket in their long, tubular flowers, so they're definitely visited by bees (although I've never actually seen a honeybee in one). Does anyone know anything about this subject? There are quite a lot of plants whose poisonous parts include the flowers, yet I've never heard of anyone dying from a poisoned batch of honey. There are plenty of references to death and/or madness ensuing from other kinds of food that have become contaminated. Two examples that come to mind are ergot contamination of rye and corn cockle contamination of wheat (corn cockle is a poisonous weed of grainfields that has been almost eradicated in Britain). Honey, however, only ever seems to be contaminated in the course of the human processing that takes place after it leaves the hive - by overheating, for example, or (in the days of skep hives) over-sulphuring. I would love to hear what all you knowledgable beekeepers have to say about the possibility of 'natural' contamination since I'm a very novice beekeeper and still don't properly understand what the bees get up to inside the hive. Penny Munn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 06:33:26 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Treatment of Varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez wrote > Dear Friends: > It is saddening for me to see people making arguments (pro or contra) > just about any subject for the sake of argumentation. I agree, that > everyone under the sun is entitled to his/her own opinion BUT to me it > does not make sense to opine if one is bordering on the ridiculous. > To opine against the use of mineral oil because one person does not > like the idea of the possibility of mineral oil getting into ones > beverage is as incomprehensible as the person who says that he/she will > not fly airplanes because airplanes may crash. We are losing it here. I sympathise with you and your defense of your strongly held ideas, but, until they are proved, they have no more merit than my saying that I ran tests for the past ten years using peach pits as an anti-varroa technique. I would hope that there would be some questioning of my statements, including peach pit residue, until they were backed up by independent testing. When you consider how much time, effort and money any drug, pesticide or food additive company has to invest to get somthing to the market, what you have done to date is only a small first step on the road they have to take. And it is not an either you use oil or your hives will die proposition. You may have had failures with Apistan, but I have not. I use it and crisco patties and have done fine even last year, when many around me lost most of their hives. Most who use Apistan and practice good beekeeping have done well in this age of varroa and tracheal mites. And drone trapping, brood interruption, and other non-chemical techniques also work. I will continue to use Apistan because it is less labor intensive than the mineral oil technique and I know it works. And as far as mineral oil getting in the honey. With our trendy food fads, do you want honey to be known as a fatty food and have to add fat content (is mineral oil saturated or unsaturated?) to a honey lable? Peace. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:35:12 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: hive population ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:29 PM 7/8/97 EDT, you wrote: >According to JRmintin@AOL.COM: >> >> i give each one of my bees a name. this helps keep track of them. lately i >> have been running out of names we all have problems Jerry the beekeeper >> According to Frederick L. Hollen >I only name the queens. Keeps things simpler. In case of a >supercedure or swarm the new queen gets the same name, with a >Roman numeral after it (II, III, IV) as with human royalty. If you >really want to name them all, you could thus recycle the names >about every 6 weeks. Hope this helps. I started by naming hives alphabetically from Athens and Budapest down to Xanadu, Yokohama and Zanzibar. Edinburgh's claim to fame was as the most aggressive hive I ever encountered - I had to divide the hive 3 successive times to get the population down far enough to locate the queen - gave me great satisfaction to squash that one. Quarrelsome lot, the Scots. So as not to be accused of racist remarks (and I ran out of names) these days I number boxes and list queens according to breeding line and year e.g. W1* is the breeder queen, all her daughter queens bred this year are W1/97 and a daughter selected as a breeder is W1-1*. The initial letter indicates the first origin of the line. The Roman numerals is a good idea. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Handling a twoweek old swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rick, The next time you take a feral hive, prepare some wired frames without foundation. As you cut off the brood arrange it on the frame and when you have a full frame of brood loop a length of string 5 or 6 times around and pull to hold it firm. I usually tie one end tand then do a rough knot (my hands are generally sticky by then). This can then go into your hive box and the brood will develop. The frame will have to be rotated gradually to the outside and removed for melting down. I think the brood lying in the bottom of your hive is a lost cause but if you have drawn frames the queen will move to these to lay. There is no point in salvaging honeycomb for frames - if you lay this on top of the frames under the lid the house bees will transfer it. At this stage if the bees are still altogether, provide frames for the hive to use. The old brood can be discarded. Anything that is viable will probably have hatched by now. With food and shelter a hive can recover from set-backs and replace their losses very quickly. It is important to give the queen maximum good drawn frames/foundation to avoid wasted space. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Earwigs in hive cover Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Why do they call it an earwig anyway? It has no ears, it has no wig, >what's earwig all about? > I recall stories from the school playground of earwigs crawling up pillows and into ears - guaranteed to produce terrified shudders in 6 year olds. If they are inside the hive it sounds like a very damp environment - is the hive tilted forward to allow moisture to trickle out? Earwigs are attracted to half open matchboxes filled with damp wood shavings or rotten leaves - my organic gardening book recommends transferring the catch to the branches of apple and pear trees where they can feed upon codling moth larvae. They are useful scavengers in compost piles. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: hive population ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I simply name mine C1, C2, C3, etc. for Chauvin Honey Farms. I name my landlord's hives M1, M2, etc for Matkin's I name my father's hives A1, A2, etc. not very orginal hugh? Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:19:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Earwig Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What is an Earwig???? snail? Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:51:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Treatment of Varroa using mineral oil Comments: To: Bill Truesdell In-Reply-To: <33C4E4A6.6780@clinic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > And as far as mineral oil getting in the honey. With our trendy food > fads, do you want honey to be known as a fatty food and have to add fat > content (is mineral oil saturated or unsaturated?) to a honey lable? Mineral oil is not digestible. If you eat it, it comes out the same way. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:06:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Earwig On Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:19:14 -0500 Steven Albritton writes: >What is an Earwig???? snail? Mais non, cher. It's a long bug with pinchers on the behind end. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:25:33 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil Comments: To: jtemp@xs4all.nl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Jan Tempelman wrote: Dear Jan: This is a magnificent example of a research project. However, it does not take into consideration that the VARROA infested bees will take their mites with them while foraging and that as every beekeeper in the entire world knows, bees have a tendency to stray into other (than their own) colonies and thus transfer their mites to new colonies. Since the proponents of this method do not use any other form of controls for Varroa mites, I would have to think that their practice is contributing to the spread of Varroa! Also their method seems more expensive, more complex and labor intensive than applying mineral oil to the frame's top bars. Be your own judge. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: wastewater and apiculture: historic problems? In a message dated 97-07-09 20:18:12 EDT, you write: << There has been much in the press lately about Clostridium botulinum spores remaining viable in honey and causing botulism in children of less than 1 year old. As this organism is fairly widespread in the soil and could be in much higher levels in wastewater this could prove a risk. >> I think you would be hard pressed to find any foodstuffs without the spores in them. I personally believe honey got the beating because it was an easy target. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:50:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Treatment of Varroa using mineral oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Food grade mineral oil is sold as a laxative at most pharmacies in the US and most grocery stores in the health section. Would it be good to have it known that their is a possibility of having a small amount of laxative in the honey? I guess it depends on the risk vs rewards. All things we do to the bees to control the mites carry certain risks. Apistan could turn out to be like allar (sp?) was to the apple industry. At 09:51 AM 7/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >> And as far as mineral oil getting in the honey. With our trendy food >> fads, do you want honey to be known as a fatty food and have to add fat >> content (is mineral oil saturated or unsaturated?) to a honey lable? > >Mineral oil is not digestible. If you eat it, it comes out the same way. > >Conrad Sigona >conrad@ntcnet.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:20:34 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Handling a twoweek old swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 James Meehan wrote: Dear Friends: I have tried many types of materials to attach comb to frames with varying degrees of success. The most effective and quickest to install I have found to be rubber bands. Also, bees spend a lot of time chewing off the tie materials. With rubber bands, when the bees chew them off, most of the time the bands snap and fall to the bottom board without further consequences. Other materials tend to stick to the combs and one has to remove them later usually finding them imbedded in the comb. My opinion: I prefer rubber bands. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: wastewater and apiculture: historic problems? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Clostridium botulinum spores are common on all raw agricultural products. The problem is honey cannot be washed. It is not recommended to feed raw vegetables straight from the garden to any child under 1 year old. Washing the vegetable removes most of the spores, but on items like carrots or radishes, the skin is porus or "wrinkled" enough that you need to "peal" the vegetable before feeding to children. The only reason honey is so stressed is because of the impossibility of washing. All raw agricultural materials have the spores and it is common sense to wash before eating. At 10:44 AM 7/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-07-09 20:18:12 EDT, you write: > ><< > There has been much in the press lately about Clostridium botulinum > spores remaining viable in honey and causing botulism in children of > less than 1 year old. As this organism is fairly widespread in the > soil and could be in much higher levels in wastewater this could > prove a risk. >> > I think you would be hard pressed to find any foodstuffs without the spores >in them. >I personally believe honey got the beating because it was an easy target. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:23:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Plans for Top Bar Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've done some more editing on the home page for the Top Bar Hive Beekeeping website at http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm I have created a compilation of the links to plans on the website and to those I know of on other websites. If you are looking for plans, check on these. Be sure to read the text associated with the plans...you'll get a lot of useful information. I have a half dozen other sources of plans that I hope to scan and post eventually if I can get permission from the publications. Hope your summer or winter is going well for you wherever you are. Cordially yours, Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------- | James D. Satterfield | E-Mail: jsatt@gsu.edu | | 258 Ridge Pine Drive --------------------------------| | Canton, GA 30114, USA Canton is about 40 mi/64 km | | Telephone (770) 479-4784 north of Altanta, Georgia USA | | | | TBH Beekeeping Website: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm | ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:26:08 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: wastewater and apiculture: historic problems? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 RICHARD BARNES wrote: It is unfortunate, because in so doing they are deprived of a magnificent source of nutrients, but honey is not recommended in the diets for infants and senior citizens. The old adage: "better an ounce of prevention than a pound of medicine." Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:42:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: mineral oil in honey hi all, i've been reading the currently growing debate over the mineral oil treatment that Dr. Rodriguez is using. i remember some time ago when spearmint, wintergreen and other oils were being embraced by the beekeeping community, with little or no argument about them showing up in honey. why now is there such a concern over food grade mineral oil? i must admit this is a bit perplexing to me when i read all the criticisms. also, when we use apistan, don't we not harvest that crop of honey due to the presense of apistan? we let the bees use it up over the winter. so why can't the same "rule" apply to mineral oil? the current law states only apistan. so if everyone is so concerned, then stick to the law. but allow persons like Dr. Rodriguez to continue to experiment with reports on progress. I do think that a more scientific approach, with controls and monitors, should be put in place, but for "first pass" analysis, i think he is doing what many others are doing, but not saying anything about it. i would caution Dr. Rodriguez and others doing experiments not to sell their honey lest our industry be tainted by reports of contaminated honey. but surely let the testing continue, and keep the community informed of progress. my two cents worth. (\ John {|||8- in (/ Soquel, Ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:51:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dusty Rhodes Subject: fogging of mineral oil In-Reply-To: <199707101448.AA20756@interlock.halnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oh my goodness, it might be in our bread!!!! I contacted some people about fogging mineral oil. This is one of the responces I got: Dusty Rhodes wrote: > > john, > You are probably not aware that honey bees are having a terrible time > with Varroa Mites. > It seems as though food grade mineral oil put on the frames in hives is > an effective treatment for these mites. > There is a bee-L group of about 500 beekeepers which comunicate via > email. > Recently the group was wondering if mineral oil could be dispensed by > fogging? > Also this may be a market for you products which you unaware of. > Dusty Dusty, I am not aware of any way to "fog" our mineral oil. We do sell it to the grain elevators who "mist" it on the grain to reduce dust and the possibility of explosion inside the elevator. I'm sure there is a way to do this though I just not aware of any. Our lightest mineral oil is a 50 second oil(about a 3W...very light). Please contact me at 1-800-486-0203 for more information. John -- John Kiser Columbia Oil Company johnk@columbia-oil.com www.columbia-oil.com Angel's Old Town HomeBrew http://www.netropolis.net/dusty/homebrew.htm Beauty is in the hands of the beerholder! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:16:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I caught another swarm late yesterday evening. shook them off a blackberry vine into a new hive with six frames of drawn comb. I had someone look at the hive and they said. some are going in and out but some are swarming around the hive. I did not move the hive after I caught the swarm. I simply sat it on a milk crate. Sound normal? Why the still swarming around the hive? Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:17:12 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Morris Booton Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net YEA!!! Very Well Put Dr: I second all you have said amd More. If what is offered in good faith and is rejected????? Does everyone have a delete key? And does it work. I've said enough. Morris Booton /9/97 4:36PM, in message <33C40467.4CF1650E@norfolk.infi.net>, "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" wrote: > Michael Reddell wrote: > Dear Friends: > It is saddening for me to see people making arguments (pro or contra) > just about any subject for the sake of argumentation. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:00:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: PondSite Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tnx for the info WALT in SC ---------- > From: Midnite Bee > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Honey in Extractor > Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 3:53 PM > > www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee > > > on the hive to be cleaned up, but didnt know if under the inner cover or > > above it was the best way to go. > Go above the inner cover. > Herb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:44:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Repost: Best of Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT How to receive "Best of bee": Subscribing to Best of Bee will bring you only selected and edited posts from BEE-L. This is a reduction of 10 to 90% in mail flow depending on the current quality of posts. This option is best suited to experienced or professional beekeepers who wish to avoid very basic discussions, chatter, flames and tomfoolery but still track what is happening on BEE-L. There are currently 250 subscribers to Best of Bee. To Join, send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SET BEE-L NOMAIL, and at the same time send email to HoneyBee@systronix.net, saying JOIN BESTOFBEE you@whatever.com (where 'you@whatever.com' is your the email address to which you want the list to be sent). For more information, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND BESTBEE in the subject line. You will receive a text file in return. For those who want to know more about the selection and editorial policies of Best of Bee, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND CRITERIA in the subject line. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:00:09 -0700 Reply-To: edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "J.Edwards" Organization: USDA-ARS Subject: Re: BestOfBee Digest for 9 Jul 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As my old teacher, Dr Alan Woodrow used to say, the "stinger" is the bee. I believe you are referring to "sting" removal. ;) John Edwards, USDA, Tucson, Arizona ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:21:02 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Treatment of Varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conrad Sigona wrote: > Mineral oil is not digestible. If you eat it, it comes out the same way. I appreciate the correction. Had I known that, I would have said that maybe we should sell our honey with a dipstick to check the oil level. Keep smiling. Bill Truesdell BAth, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:39:43 +0000 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: mineral oil in honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Day wrote: > i remember some time ago when spearmint, wintergreen and other > oils were being embraced by the beekeeping community, with little > or no argument about them showing up in honey. why now is there > such a concern over food grade mineral oil? i must admit this is > a bit perplexing to me when i read all the criticisms. As far as I know, the essential oils were NOT being used in the hive when supers and a flow were on. The mineral oil IS being applied while supers and a flow is on. Not having used this method, I could be wrong. > also, when we use apistan, don't we not harvest that crop of honey > due to the presense of apistan? we let the bees use it up over > the winter. so why can't the same "rule" apply to mineral oil? I suppose it could as long as the mites will agree not to grow in numbers untill after you get your honey crop off the hives. > the current law states only apistan. so if everyone is so concerned, > then stick to the law. but allow persons like Dr. Rodriguez to > continue to experiment with reports on progress. I do think that No one in this group is, or could, do anything to hold Dr. Rodriguez back from doing his work. Discussions with disagreements and differing points of view is very healthy in my book. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:49:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Lots of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Eugene Makovec > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Lots of Bees > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 12:22 AM > > > I've noticed the same thing on one of my 3 hives. This is my busiest hive -- > From a starter 3-pound package on April 1, they're on their super. I first > thought their habit of clustering on front of hive was from the heat, and I > put a stick between 2 supers for ventilation. But this past weekend temps > were in the 70s and when I checked them they were on the front again. > Any explanation would be appreciated. > > Eugene Makovec > Kirkwood, MO What you have is To many bees with nothing to do combined with high temperatures. The house bees can no longer keep the hive cool so they chase out the foragers that aren't busy and are just taking up space and restricting airflow. Here in the Southeast it is common to see large clusters of bees hanging from the landing board in July and August when the Spring flow has ended and the beginning of the fall flow. I have seen them hang out there even is driving rain for short periods, Frank Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:58:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Hole through cell bottom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ---------- > From: Conrad Sigona > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Hole through cell bottom > Date: Monday, July 07, 1997 7:18 AM > > Yesterday I noticed in one hive that some of the brood comb, after > the bee emerged, had been cleaned out but the bottom of the cell was > cleaned out a little too much: a hole had been poked right through the > foundation! Some of the facts: > > a) This occurred three times all on one frame. > b) All occurrences are from the same side. > c) The three holes aren't near each other. > d) The foundation was newly drawn; that is, the cells in question were > used only once. > e) The other side of the frame is not yet fully drawn. > > Can anyone explain the hole? It would seem the housekeeper was trying > to remove something that wasn't easy to remove. > > > Conrad Sigona > Newport, New York > conrad@ntcnet.com There may have been a wax worm or two behind the cells. I recently hived a swarm on some combs that had waxworm damage and the bees cut large chunks of the foundation out the get at the wax worms. It only took them one day to clean 4 frames. On the 2nd day they were starting repairs and the ground in front of the hive was littered with waxworm cocoons and carcasses. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:39:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I've been away for a couple of days and was quite surprised to see = the intensity of the reaction to my inquiry about oil getting in honey. = My post was not an "argument ... for the sake of argumentation". I = simply wanted to spark some conversation on whether or not noticeable = amounts of oil end up in the honey with this method. I hadn't heard any = proponents address the question (and still haven't). I am NOT against using mineral oil (or essential oils either for that = matter) in the hives, and I did not knowingly attack Dr. Rodriguez' = contribution to beekeeping. I just need more information. I don't know = enough yet to risk a honey crop. The people who get honey from me would = not be happy about anything they perceived as a contaminant in my "pure" = honey, whether it was food grade or not. My reputation would be mud. = (And no, I don't leave Apistan on my honey crop either.) I appreciate the work Dr. Rodriguez and others are doing in this area, = and genuinely hope to benefit from it. I just need more info and would = prefer not getting torched for asking about a legitimate concern. If = the tone of my original note was offensive, I apologize. It was not = intended to be. Michael Reddell ---------- Dr. P. Rodriguez wrote: Dear Friends: It is saddening for me to see people making arguments (pro or contra) just about any subject for the sake of argumentation... =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:48:49 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Wilson Subject: Re: noxious substances in honey In-Reply-To: <1B08F301C4@mail-gw.uclan.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII email: pjwilson@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, p.munn wrote: > Dear all, > Discussion of honey contaminated with insecticide or mineral oil must > have been buzzing around in the back of my head last night when I was > reading a gardening mag and came across a description of a species > called 'Aconitum' that said almost as an afterthought 'all parts of > the plant are highly poisonous'. Does that mean the nectar too? I > asked myself. And if the bees take it, is the poison altered at all, or rendered > harmless within the hive? Does it remain as a trace? > The only poisonous plant I've ever had in my garden is the foxglove. > These grow wild in the British countryside and the bumble bees make > an awful racket in their long, tubular flowers, so they're definitely > visited by bees (although I've never actually seen a honeybee in > one). > Does anyone know anything about this subject? There are quite a lot > of plants whose poisonous parts include the flowers, yet I've never > heard of anyone dying from a poisoned batch of honey. There are > plenty of references to death and/or madness ensuing from other kinds > of food that have become contaminated. Two examples that come to mind > are ergot contamination of rye and corn cockle contamination of wheat > (corn cockle is a poisonous weed of grainfields that has been almost > eradicated in Britain). Honey, however, only ever seems to be > contaminated in the course of the human processing that takes place > after it leaves the hive - by overheating, for example, or (in the > days of skep hives) over-sulphuring. I would love to hear what all > you knowledgable beekeepers have to say about the possibility of > 'natural' contamination since I'm a very novice beekeeper and still > don't properly understand what the bees get up to inside the hive. > > Penny Munn > Hi Penny and B-Liners My ancient ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping refers to poisonous honey being used as a form of chemical warfare in 400BC in an ancient country on the Black Sea. Apparently Rhododendron Honey , collected from hives! was used to render 10000 soldiers senseless for a day or two. The same ABC and XYZ refers to Mountain Laurel (Kalma latifolia) honey as being poisonous. Apparently 15 pounds were analyzed but no poisonous substance was identified. However when some of the honey was consumed it produced a tingling in the feet and toes; then difficulty in standing ' followed by a severe headache. It is advised to test the honey by first feeding it to a dog and observing its behaviour. Refer to the 1972 ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping, A I ROOT CO. pp511 -512 regards to the List Peter Wilson Edmonton, Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:28:01 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: beekeeping as a career? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dcrocodile@AOL.COM wrote: Hi Diana. Yes, I wouldn't mind doing an interview. Be my pleasure. Please let me know how I can help. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:44:16 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: Wandering Queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" You mentioned that you had added another box with a queen excluder. I suspect you added another box with un drawn comb, in other words, foundation only in it. If so this is your problem. Never put foundation above a queen excluder. The bees don't like it, and even though you may find a handful of bees there, the vast majority won't go, resulting in overcrowding and swarming. Take the queen excluder out, leave the new foundation there, and once it is drawn out, put the eluders back, making sure the queen in below it. I haven't heard of bumble bees being a concern to honey bees, but yellow jacket wasps like to eat honey bees. 0000,0000,ffffW. J. Fernihough (Bill, billfern@istar.ca Engineer, Beekeeper, Computer Nerd ffff,0000,0000All things cometh to he who waiteth if he worketh like hell while he waiteth. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:46:49 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: noxious substances in honey >It is advised to test the honey by first feeding it to a dog and observing >its behaviour. What a thing to do to your dog! Take your best friend, who trusts you, and feed it honey you suspect is unwholesome! Fie on Mr. Root! Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:56:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Wax moth control. In-Reply-To: <199707070403.VAA12724@beach.silcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Roy Canaday asked some NEWbee questions... [snip} 2) re wax moths - granted, we shouldn't have had to deal with them, but would cedar top/bottom boards (frames?) reduce this nuisance?" He reminded me about an article I came across an article in our local Sunday THursday paper's Gardening section, entitled "Some bacteria can fight pests in the garden: "The velvety green cabbageworms that chew leaves of broccolli and cabbage to shreds can be stopped by making insect pests sick. And the way you do this is by spraying the plants with Bt - short for Bacillus thuringiensis, a bacterium that causes disease in certain insects. Since Bt is toxic only to certain insects, it does not pose a danger to other creatures, such as birds, cats, dogs, humans, even beneficial insects. .. More recently, additional strains have been discovered that are toxic to insects besides caterpillars...Another strain, Bt var.aizawai, is deadly to the wax moth of beehives." How effective is Bt var.aizawai for control of wax moths? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:43:13 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Putting comb in sideways Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I got a bee call yesterday to check out bee hive in a tree. Thinking it was in a tree stump, I came prepared today for a bait/cone bee removal procedure. Lo and behold, I arrived to find that a swarm had built a 4 comb hive hanging from a branch. The hive was 12 feet in a tree that hung over a nursery school playground. Naturally I shared the director's concern about this hive coming down onto the playground on a very windy day. I climbed a ladder and cut each comb to fit into 3 frames. However, I found that they fit better sideways and secured them with several rubber bands. My question is: Will the bees get upset with this re- orientation of the comb to a sideways position? Interesting thing I noticed was that there was very little honey in the area above the brood section. Though Santa Barbara has a Mediterranean climate, I guess that a lot of it was spent making wax and keeping the brood warm in this outside hive. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:50:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: No drones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ever since changing over to plastic foundation and lack of feral hives in the vicinity, I have noticed less drones flying in and out of my hives. The bees don't appear to make drone cells on plastic foundation. Perhaps this will help minimize the varroa invasion = no drone brood to carry out the life cycle?? Anyone else seen this? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 06:55:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Laying workers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I've learned (the hard way) that a hive of laying workers cannot be >requeened. Can, however, a hive of laying workers be combined with a >healthy hive using the neswpaper/queen excluder method, or will they >just kill the queen once they get through the newspaper? Has anyone >ever tried? >************** > Yes, put the healthy hive on top over a piece of newspaper with some >slits cut into it. > And, yes, I have done this successfully. > (I guess you ought to put the laying worker colony under the >healthy hive on the healthy hive stand. ) >Tim Sterrett > Tim, I have also successfully combined hives this way, adding the laying worker hive to a healthy new hive that was still building, but in this case, I put the laying worker hive body on top of the healthy hive. It worked just fine. I shook the bees out to the ground from the laying hive first, and also scratched open all the sealed drone brood (that was in the worker comb area). Why did you suggest putting the healthy hive on top? Rick Grossman Newberg (just outside of Portland), Oregon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:05:54 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Re: Attaching Combs with Rubber bands In-Reply-To: <199707100403.VAA21436@beach.silcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim, This is exactly what I did today when I took down a 4 comb hive hanging freely in a tree. Here is the method you can use: 1.Make up empty frames each with 3 rubber bands stretched around the ends. 2. Place the frame up next to the comb to measure the dimensions. 3. Cut the comb with a charp knife. 4. Drop the comb into the frame and secure with the rubber bands. 5. Place it into a hive and repeat this process until all combs are placed in the hive. There will always be some comb with honey and brood left over. You can give the brood comb to the chickens or put it into a solar wax melter to extract the wax. Hope this helps. Paul Cronshaw DC Cyberchiro and Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA ****** Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 19:24:52 -0400 From: James Meehan Subject: Re: Handling a twoweek old swarm I heard of someone actually attaching the comb to the frames with rubberbands and letting the bees figure out what to do. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:05:12 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: mineral oil in honey In-Reply-To: <33C53A7F.53E5@Birkey.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello, > John Day wrote: > > > i remember some time ago when spearmint, wintergreen and other > > oils were being embraced by the beekeeping community, with little > > or no argument about them showing up in honey. why now is there > > such a concern over food grade mineral oil? i must admit this is > > a bit perplexing to me when i read all the criticisms. > > Barry Birkley wrote: > > As far as I know, the essential oils were NOT being used in the hive when supers and a flow > were on. The mineral oil IS being applied while supers and a flow is on. Not having used this > method, I could be wrong. 'Essential oils' is perhaps a bit of a misnomer because they are not 'oils' in the generally accepted sense, they are not lipids and nor are they essential to the plant. As these plant essences are much more volatile than mineral oil, contamination of hive products is likely to occur in different ways. Whatever treatment is placed into a hive must come out by some route apart from that absorbed by the hive furniture. A Bee World article from Switzerland showed that after Apilife VAR was used in 9 apiaries for 7 weeks, thymol levels in honey were found to be in the range 0.05-0.5mg/kg of honey. The World Health Organisation apparently accepts that anything below 50mg/kg is safe as a foodstuff. Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:05:12 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Wax moth control. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello, Paul Cronshaw wrote: > He reminded me about an article I came across an article in our local > Sunday THursday paper's Gardening section, entitled "Some bacteria can > fight pests in the garden: > > "The velvety green cabbageworms that chew leaves of broccolli and cabbage > to shreds can be stopped by making insect pests sick. And the way you do > this is by spraying the plants with Bt - short for Bacillus thuringiensis, > a bacterium that causes disease in certain insects. Since Bt is toxic > only to certain insects, it does not pose a danger to other creatures, such > as birds, cats, dogs, humans, even beneficial insects. > > .. More recently, additional strains have been discovered that are toxic to > insects besides caterpillars...Another strain, Bt var.aizawai, is deadly to > the wax moth of beehives." > > How effective is Bt var.aizawai for control of wax moths? This topic has been mentioned before on Bee-l. In the UK there is a product available called Certan based on BT. I have used it and found it to be very effective. It is easy to use but in the quantities that I have purchased quite expensive. The makers claim (and I think they are correct) that the product can be used with no harm to bees on combs which are in use at the time of application. I seem to remember from the previous discussion that this product is or has been available in the US and Canada. Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:59:08 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul & Sandra Roberts Subject: Fw: Lots of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Too many bees - Its a great problem to have! I thought I would add my two bobs worth ( to coin a great Australian term). I have also encountered this phenomenon on my stronger hives in late spring. I have asked more experienced beekeepers about it and been told that it is the young house bees which are not yet foraging being kicked out due to the temperature of the hive. The problem (?) usually dissipates over a month or so which would support the idea as the bees mature and take to fields. Enjoy your problem, you are probably the envy of many! Regards to all Paul Roberts psrobert@gil.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:57:28 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Best Web Sites List In-Reply-To: <02470462101959@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It's amazing! I'd have thought there would be at least 5 or so contenders for the best Beekeeping Sites List. But there are none! As short a time as 6 months ago, there were several I knew of that were comphrehensive. I guess the web has grown so fast that no one can claim to have an up-to-date compilation of beekeeping related sites any more. It's unfortunate, since the search engines all give different and incomplete results, making finding sites a job. Can anyone recommend a favourite search engine for getting the best listing of beekeeping sites with minimum spurious hits? Any recommendations for keys to use in searches beyond the obvious -- 'bees', 'honey', 'hive', beehive', etc.? Allen > Now that there are getting to be more bee sites on the web every day, > many of us have given up trying to maintain lists on our web pages -- or > even to try to bookmark them. > > Therefore, I wonder who has the most up-to-date and definitive list of > beekeeping related sites -- preferably catagorized and maybe with > comments? (I don't mean the just results of some search -- I mean rather > a selected and carefully maintained list). > > Any nominations for the best? > > Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:59:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Brood dimensions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:14 AM 09/07/97 EDT, you wrote: >Hi Curtis >A standard cut 1" X 10" is now 3/4" X 9 1/2". Many beekeepers ??? use >this size to make brood boxes with as it is less expensive than buying a >1" X 12" (3/4" X 11 1/2") It makes no sense to spend extra money on 1 x 12 and then throw away 20% of the lumber. You might be able to find lumber that is planned (planed) on only 3 sides or try this idea. For years I have made my supers out of 1 x 8 lumber. Cheap, easy to obtain. I make each side out of 2 parts, being certain to stagger the joints. I make the final cut to depth after assembly. To cut and assemble takes a little more time but it is more than compensated for by the reduced price of the materials. This also produces very little waste wood. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:59:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: misery loves company Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is a story that most of you who employ people to help you with your bees will relate to. Perhaps you have had this kind of a day yourself. This story is about one of those days that makes other days look good. I have two people working for me who are just terrific. Dependable, capable, etc. One has been here for 4 seasons. Anyway, they left with a truck to move barrels, winter stuff and junk from old locations to new locations and in general do a little clean up and check a few locations. When they finally returned at the end of the day they had accumulated: 1. Got stuck - used a traction device we carry, and managed to get unstuck only to lose the device in the mud. Found it. 2. Lost a drum off the load. Retreived the drum. 3. Backed into a pallet of hives and dominoed several hives over. Damaged trailer in doing so. Destroyed on of our nice new insulated lids. Damaged a couple of supers. 4. Drove around a mud puddle and pealed off a side mirror. 5. Had difficulty with 3rd gear and started back to the honey house in second (slowly). We have had major transmission work and problems so thought this was related. Found that it was really an operator error and so retraced the route again. However, it seems no great damage was done except for the time lost. In the end they were able to solve the problems and keep going. We will check the knocked over hives in a few days. Is it only coincidence that this is the first time I have ever sent two women out alone like this? :) Not likely but it was an interesting day. What make it more interesting is that we were in touch by cell phone throughout the day as the events unfolded. Ulee never had so much fun. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:59:58 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: More misery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am sure many of you have been here so you might identify with this. I have a one ton 4 x 4. Last fall I had a lot of work done on engine and clutch. Two clutches and the transmission in and out several times. This spring it becomes clear that all is not right for after depressing the clutch pedal and waiting a few seconds a serious vibration starts. The shop the did the work earlier is out of business. (And I thought I supported it to the extent that it would be in business without needing any other customers.) Had transmission removed. Bolts on flywheel were rubbing on clutch. Easy fix, simply grind down the bolt heads. Found a yoke (don't know what else to call it) on transmission had at some time been broken and welded. It was wearing and may not have been aligning properly. Turned out this was not the case but at the time it might have been. Had yoke replaced, then upon installation, it was discovered that a pilot bearing had never been installed. This allowed the shaft to wander all over and all kinds of things happening. And the shop that was at fault had dissappeared in the middle of the night earlier in the year. All was installed but when set on a jack to test there was a terrible growl coming from the transmission. Removed again. Remember, the cost of all this work is mostly in the removal and installation of the transmission and transfer case. Bad bearing. Mechanic replaced it, looked over the transmission and bolted it in place again. I picked it up - after many days. Hitched up my trailer, drove 10 km to a yard. Forgot something, back to Honey house, back to yard and just before the yard, the drive shaft fell off. Wow, does one stop quickly. Fortunately I was in the process of gearing down for a corner and was going slowly. Turned out the mechanics helper only turned some bolts on the universal joint in hand tight. Busted up the steady bearing and univesal joint. Phoned mechanic and had a 'discussion'. Before he arrived I managed to unbolt the balance of the driveshaft and was motoring along on the front wheels. 4 wheel drive is nice. A few days later all was repaired :-) Sure it was :-) Used the truck but had difficulty going into 1st gear and it was impossible to downshift from 3 to 2. This makes for interesting driving. Back to the shop. Mechanic tried it and could only shake his head. Clearly synchro problems. Remove and sure enough the synchro was gone. He ordered parts from dealer on Thursday. No parts local but in warehouse 200 km away. By now he is trying to keep customer happy (I have already spend several thousand dollars there this season) and wants to get a quick turn around. Besides, I need the truck. Parts should be in the shop on Friday and I get truck back. No parts, dealer forgot to order. Ordered again. Should be in Saturday or latest Monday. Monday - no parts. dealer forgot again. I believe the mechanic had a 'discussion' with his supplier at this point. Dealer sent a man to get parts and deliver. Parts installed, transmission remounted. I have the truck back and so far it works. Now to get the mirror fixed (see previous message) and go get some honey. Have a nice day. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:42:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Wax moth control. In a message dated 97-07-11 12:34:21 EDT, you write: << .. More recently, additional strains have been discovered that are toxic to insects besides caterpillars...Another strain, Bt var.aizawai, is deadly to the wax moth of beehives." How effective is Bt var.aizawai for control of wax moths? >> Wasn't that the stuff the Brtits use called "Certan"? My question is what does it taste like? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:11:26 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Berube Subject: KTBH plans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The site continues to be visited often. I am happy that many have found >the information helpful. I think the plans are perhaps buried a little too >much in some of the pages, so I'll be making up a section on plans for the >home page and compiling the links for easier access. I'm sure many >visitors are looking for plans first, and then may come back for more >information. I figured the same was probably true on my page so added a link to KTBH plans directly from my "bee stuff" page (http://pinc.com/~bwarner/bees.htm) or you can get there by typing in the name of the plans directly http://pinc.com/~bwarner/ktbhplan.gif IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS GETTING TO pinc.com//~bwarner/bees.htm THEN TRY vvv.com//~bwarner/bees.htm (THOSE ARE "V'S" AS IN "VERY VIRTUALLY VICTORIA" _NOT_ WWW AS IN "WORLD WIDE WEB"-- ALSO I THINK THE ADDRESS MAY BE CASE SENSITIVE SO MAKE SURE YOU USE LOWER CASE LETTERS AS APPEAR IN ADDRESS REFERENCES-- IN A WORSE CASE SCENARIO USE ALTA VISTA TO DO SEARCH ON "ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT") - Conrad Berube " ` ISLAND CROP MANAGEMENT " ` 613 Hecate St. _- -_`-_|'\ /` Nanaimo, B.C. _/ / / -' `~()() V9R 4K4 \_\ _ /\-._/\/ (250)754-2482; fax (250)656-8922 / | | email: uc779@freenet.victoria.bc.ca '` ^ ^ website: http://pinc.com/~bwarner/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:41:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Berube Subject: KTBH plans (oops) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >TRY vvv.com//~bwarner/bees.htm Aw, bee-butts! that should have been vvv.com/~bwarner/bees.htm (only one "/") Sorry. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:05:50 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: No drones In a message dated 97-07-11 13:11:13 EDT, you write: << Ever since changing over to plastic foundation and lack of feral hives in the vicinity, I have noticed less drones flying in and out of my hives. The bees don't appear to make drone cells on plastic foundation. >> Not seen here I think once the bees fully draw the foundation out and run into the edges they will make drone comb- also once you extract some they will do the same where the comb gets a little beat up or has blowouts. So far the only complaint I have with plastic frame/foundation is bees trapped in the frame hollows and that stops once you are drawn out and switch to a 9 frame per box spacing. Had a little burr comb problem but with a hand plane and some shims I was able to get most of my gear adjusted and I now make my own supers. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:54:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward A Craft Jr Subject: Fogging Mineral Oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Keeping 800 hives leaves no time to put oil on top bars. I decided that I needed to come up with something else. I went to Builders Square bought a $50 Burgess Portable Propane Fogger. They use them to fog insecticide. I filled it with mineral oil (food grade of course), pulled the trigger and like magic I had Mineral Oil fog. I don't know yet how it will work in my hives. I will set some aside soon for testing. I still don't know if oil will be effective as fog. Also I don't know how long this machine, which was made for insecticide, will continue to make MO fog. I can only hope that the fog doesn't kill my bees. I'll find out soon. Ed Craft 14887 Oldham Dr Orlando, FL 32826 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:17:05 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: misery loves company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric: This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve your self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! Try assessing the day without reference to the gender of the workers, please! ---------- > From: Eric Abell > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: misery loves company > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:59 AM > > Here is a story that most of you who employ people to help you with your > bees will relate to. Perhaps you have had this kind of a day yourself. > This story is about one of those days that makes other days look good. > > I have two people working for me who are just terrific. Dependable, > capable, etc. One has been here for 4 seasons. Anyway, they left with a > truck to move barrels, winter stuff and junk from old locations to new > locations and in general do a little clean up and check a few locations. > > When they finally returned at the end of the day they had accumulated: > 1. Got stuck - used a traction device we carry, and managed to get > unstuck only to lose the device in the mud. Found it. > > 2. Lost a drum off the load. Retreived the drum. > > 3. Backed into a pallet of hives and dominoed several hives over. > Damaged trailer in doing so. Destroyed on of our nice new insulated lids. > Damaged a couple of supers. > > 4. Drove around a mud puddle and pealed off a side mirror. > > 5. Had difficulty with 3rd gear and started back to the honey house > in second (slowly). We have had major transmission work and problems so > thought this was related. Found that it was really an operator error and so > retraced the route again. > > However, it seems no great damage was done except for the time lost. In the > end they were able to solve the problems and keep going. We will check the > knocked over hives in a few days. > > Is it only coincidence that this is the first time I have ever sent two > women out alone like this? :) Not likely but it was an interesting > day. What make it more interesting is that we were in touch by cell phone > throughout the day as the events unfolded. Ulee never had so much fun. > > Eric > > > > > > Eric Abell > Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 > Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 > eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:19:55 -0400 Reply-To: Robert Watson Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Putting comb in sideways In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > I got a bee call yesterday to check out bee hive in a tree. ....snip.... > found that they fit better sideways and secured them with several rubber ...snip again... > My question is: Will the bees get upset with this re- orientation of the > comb to a sideways position? Probably... My brother Ian was given a colony of bees in very old and totally glued together equipment...the queen would not go up and lay in the new brood box he placed above...[so he got a box full of honey instead]... finally this year, we turned the old equipment upside down...brood was found above soon enough... ...sideways??? i'm no expert but I bet the queen wont like it.... It would be a good idea to put another super on top now, with foundation, and retire the wild comb as soon as possible. IMHO regard, Robbee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:24:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: No drones In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > Ever since changing over to plastic foundation and lack of feral hives in > the vicinity, I have noticed less drones flying in and out of my hives. The > bees don't appear to make drone cells on plastic foundation. > > Perhaps this will help minimize the varroa invasion = no drone brood to > carry out the life cycle?? > > Anyone else seen this? > Both my brother and I have plastic foundation ... mainly plasticel, but some duragilt too, [alas]...We see plenty!!! of drones...They stilll find places to make drone cells. We have some very strong colonies however, so they can afford to have a lot of drones, I suppose... bye, rob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:53:05 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: misery loves company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eunice and all.... I believe what Eric was employing is a little known literary devise called "Humour" The intended reaction was "Laughter", which is denoted by a strange vocalization and smiling...... (by the way, the word "gender" refers to language; the word Eunice was looking for was "sex"...) Eric, thanks for the giggles....:) Ian Watson ian@gardener.com St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone beekeeper ---> 8 colonies, 3 nucs on order ---------- > From: Eunice Wonnacott > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: misery loves company > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 4:17 PM > > Eric: > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve your > self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! Try > assessing the day without reference to the gender of the workers, please! > > ---------- > > From: Eric Abell > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > Subject: misery loves company > > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:59 AM > > > > Here is a story that most of you who employ people to help you with your > > bees will relate to. Perhaps you have had this kind of a day yourself. <> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:18:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Attaching Combs with Rubber bands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A couple of weeks ago I transferred a colony (fairly recent swarm) from a firewood-box to frames using rubber bands. The only complications were: 1- the combs had been built with small pieces of logs/firewood still in the box, so they were in-between and underneath some of the wood. 2 - there had been a pretty good honey flow up to that time, so lots of the comb had capped and uncapped honey in them, and 3 - it was a hot day, so even in the shade of the porch, it was hard to handle the fragile white combs. They were very soft from the heat already. I cut up the brood-combs into roughly hand-size chunks and fit them into some empty deep frames, as best I could. Sort of like a capped-brood-jigsaw puzzle. Over each frame went 5 or 6 rubber bands to hold the comb in and together. In short, within a few days the bees had begun re-connecting the pieces of comb securely together, the brood continued to hatch, and spaces left in the frame were filled with new comb. These hodgepodge combs will have to be replaced, of course, but it got them established in the hive, and ensured that a good portion of the brood was not wasted. Oh - the bees eventually chew through the rubber bands and dump them outside the entrance. By then the combs are all repaired and patched together. Best regards, J. Govostes Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:11:42 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Fogging Mineral Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Edward A Craft Jr wrote: > Keeping 800 hives leaves no time to put oil on top bars. I decided > that I needed to come up with something else. > > I went to Builders Square bought a $50 Burgess Portable > Propane Fogger. They use them to fog insecticide. I filled it with > mineral oil (food grade of course), pulled the trigger and like > magic I had Mineral Oil fog. I don't know yet how it will work in my > hives. I will set some aside soon for testing. > > I still don't know if oil will be effective as fog. Also I don't > know how long this machine, which was made for insecticide, will > continue > to make MO fog. I can only hope that the fog doesn't kill my bees. > I'll find out soon. > Ed Craft > 14887 Oldham Dr > Orlando, FL 32826 Hi Ed. Please make sure that you let me know about your results. Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:25:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Twine (smoker fuel) - is it coated with preservative ?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We often get bags of used baling twine from farmers, and the twine is a pretty good smoker fuel. It is readily available and easy to get smouldering, although it doesn't seem to last very long between refills. (Another drawback is that it tends to produce hot smoke after it's been smouldering a few minutes.) QUESTION: Almost all of the twine we get is light green in color, suggesting that there is some type of preservative on/in it. Anyone know what it is, or if products of its combustion might be especially dangerous/toxic to the bees? Many thanks, J. Govostes Freeville, NY ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:15:08 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: misery loves company Eunice sez: >This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve your >self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! Try >assessing the day without reference to the gender of the workers, >please! Whew. Lighten up a little. Eat some honey, honey. The days are too short to spend them trying so hard not to smile. 8-) Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:45:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: misery loves company Wouldn't you know it? There just had to be a chip-on-the-shoulder female out there somewhere. People who can't take kidding ---- Eunice, your remarks fail to raise you in MY eyes. Relax a bit. On Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:17:05 -0300 Eunice Wonnacott writes: >Eric: > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may >improve your >self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! Try >assessing the day without reference to the gender of the workers, >please! Walter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:36:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Twine (smoker fuel) - is it coated with preservative ?? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My best guess would be that it is toxic to both the bees and the beekeeper! I avoid using binder twine, either treated or not, like the plague. FWIW On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Joel Govostes wrote: > We often get bags of used baling twine from farmers, and the twine is a > pretty good smoker fuel. It is readily available and easy to get > smouldering, although it doesn't seem to last very long between refills. > (Another drawback is that it tends to produce hot smoke after it's been > smouldering a few minutes.) > > QUESTION: Almost all of the twine we get is light green in color, > suggesting that there is some type of preservative on/in it. Anyone know > what it is, or if products of its combustion might be especially > dangerous/toxic to the bees? > > Many thanks, > > J. Govostes > Freeville, NY > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:34:48 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Lots of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank & Phronsie Humphrey wrote: > - > > thought their habit of clustering on front of hive was from the > heat, Yep, have the same thing just south of you in Poplar Bluff, Missouri. It is the heat. As a matter of fact, while working my hives today, A dog was chasing a cat through my apiary and they were both walking...:-} Chris Michel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 18:45:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: misery loves company In-Reply-To: <199707112030.RAA07298@bud.peinet.pe.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Eunice Wonnacott wrote: > Eric: > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve your > self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! isn't that a rather "age-ist" comment? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:07:39 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: misery loves company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ALL: So sorry to be so gloomy. I truly missed the point. Went back and read the note again. Thanks for setting me straight. It's been a hard week, and yes, I do need to learn how to "lighten up". Thanks again. Eunice ---------- > From: Ian Watson > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: misery loves company > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 6:53 PM > > Eunice and all.... > > I believe what Eric was employing is a little known literary devise called > "Humour" > The intended reaction was "Laughter", which is denoted by a strange > vocalization and smiling...... > (by the way, the word "gender" refers to language; the word Eunice was > looking for was "sex"...) > > Eric, thanks for the giggles....:) > > Ian Watson ian@gardener.com > St. Catharines, Canada (near Niagara Falls) > real estate agent gardener homebrewer baritone > beekeeper ---> 8 colonies, 3 nucs on order > > ---------- > > From: Eunice Wonnacott > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > Subject: Re: misery loves company > > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 4:17 PM > > > > Eric: > > > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve > your > > self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! Try > > assessing the day without reference to the gender of the workers, > please! > > > > ---------- > > > From: Eric Abell > > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > > Subject: misery loves company > > > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:59 AM > > > > > > Here is a story that most of you who employ people to help you with > your > > > bees will relate to. Perhaps you have had this kind of a day yourself. > <> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:01:54 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: Lots of Bees I had the same thing happen and when I read about his little porch loafers, I went into the one hive (the other four were okay), and took two of the ten frames out because the rest were so full of brood and honey that the foundation in the one frame I took out had warped badly from the heat. I took one of the ten frames on the second deep super on top of it that was not as closely packed. So far, so good. It has not been quite as warm since I did that, but even when it was not quite so hot before, the bees were hanging onto each other outside the hive almost like they were preparing to swarm. With two supers on top of the two deep ones, I thought that would be odd and I'm glad the problem was posted and you gave such a good answer. They should be enjoying some improved ventilation with the remodel on the frames. Thank you. Beverly ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:21:32 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: CHAN KONG YEE Subject: Re: Earwig Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:19 AM 10/07/1997 -0500, you wrote: >What is an Earwig???? snail? >Steven Albritton >LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms >Monroe, Louisiana > An earwig is a kind of insect. With 3 pairs of leg, 3 section body, short antenna, hard wing case with a pair of small wing (which can't use it for flying), dark brown in color. NAME : JERRY CHAN KONG YEE No. MATRIKS : A 53379 FAKULTI : SAINS HAYAT (BIOLOGI SEL & MOLEKUL) ADDRESS : K1B-301, KAMSIS TUN HUSSEIN ONN ( COM Z ), UNIVERSITI KEBANGSAAN MALAYSIA, 43600 BANGI, SELANGOR. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:03:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ross M Subject: Re: Need Honey Greetings: This may or may not be the place to ask, if not please advise, if so please relpy. This is my first year that I have had a hive. And I bought a couple of Hundred Honey bears to fill. Thinking that I would be "giving it away" to friends and co-workers. I happened to meet someone on the Golf Course and we got talking about honey. He was a buyer with a chain of stores in Canada. He told me he may be able to provide some shelf space for a North Americian product. (he has been buying from a broker that is based in Hong Kong, product made in China) Today I got a trial order from him to "test the market" he ordered 2500 - 8oz bears thats 1250 pounds of honey. (I hope to produce 100 to 200 pounds myself) if this test runs ok I would been looking at 2500 to 5000 units every month. The purchase order states that the Honey be "Pfund 60 or below" and a moisture content of 18.6 % or less. If you have Honey to sell (wholesale) I would be pleased to look at offers My Fax number is 613-821-0157 Thanks, Ross Murray RR # 3, Metcalfe, ON. K0A 2P0 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:04:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: misery loves company On Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:17:05 -0300 Eunice Wonnacott writes: >Eric: > >This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may >improve your self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone >else's eyes! Try assessing the day without reference to the >gender of the workers, please! Eunice, granted I am also a male "old timer", but I hardly think mention of gender is a "bad" thing. Eric's workers certainly have some sort of "gender", although these days you never know what gender (if any) you are looking at. The same funny sort of day, or worse, could have as easily happened to males. Just ragging you in really a friendly way. :-) After all, you did make your point in a pleasant, civilized and polite manner. Maybe, you can just teach us old dogs some new tricks after all. :-) Al, awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Honey Bees & Beekeeping - / - Doktor Finkle Play " Interlotto " and win at: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:42:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Digest Cesar Flores Subject: Another swarm story I picked up a swarm yesterday. It was a difficult job and I think I may have lost the queen. When I installed them they decided to cluster on the front of the hive as if rejecting the location. I moved them to a new spot that happened to be right next to a swarm nuc that I had started about a month ago. They rejected this one too. The interesting part was they started nasanov fanning at the nuc entrance and then just walked right in! OK I am new at this, but it seems unusual that a hive of bees would just accept a whole swarm like this. And the funny part was they spent about a half-hour talking about it peacefully in groups before making the decision. Has anyone else experienced this or care to comment? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:33:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: No drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8E53.08B15380" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8E53.08B15380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have most of my brood in plasticell now for the second year and I'd = say it's about 5-10% drones, mostly at the edges of the brood frames. = They seem to be forcing enough cells to drone size to accomodate their = needs.=20 ---------- From: (Thomas) (Cornick)[SMTP:BeeCrofter@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:05 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: No drones In a message dated 97-07-11 13:11:13 EDT, you write: << Ever since changing over to plastic foundation and lack of feral hives = in the vicinity, I have noticed less drones flying in and out of my hives. = The bees don't appear to make drone cells on plastic foundation. >> Not seen here I think once the bees fully draw the foundation out = and run into the edges they will make drone comb- also once you extract some = they will do the same where the comb gets a little beat up or has blowouts. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8E53.08B15380 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjUGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9sb2d5AFNNVFAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHAAAACdEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9s b2d5JwACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOkJFRS1MQENOU0lCTS5BTEJBTlkuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADBjUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEADgAAAFJFOiBObyBkcm9uZXMAWQQBBYADAA4AAADNBwcACwAXACEAJQAFAEgBASCA AwAOAAAAzQcHAAsAFwAXABUABQAuAQEJgAEAIQAAADcwQjBFQ0ZDNDJGQUQwMTFBMjU4NDAzQTAy QzEwNjI3AAoHAQOQBgAQBQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5 ACDPuIeNjrwBHgBwAAEAAAAOAAAAUkU6IE5vIGRyb25lcwAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8jo2HuPzs sHH6QhHQolhAOgLBBicAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAQAAAAbXdyQGhvdGNp dHkuY29tAAMABhDNyk+GAwAHELECAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJSEFWRU1PU1RPRk1ZQlJPT0RJTlBM QVNUSUNFTExOT1dGT1JUSEVTRUNPTkRZRUFSQU5ESURTQVlJVFNBQk9VVDUtMTAlRFJPTkVTLE1P U1RMWUFUVEhFRURHRVNPRlRIRUJSAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAogMAAJ4DAAAPBgAATFpGda9BCt7/AAoB DwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9 CoAIzwnZO/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRRQvyYwBAIEkgEYB2jGUgBGATwCBvZhtQ WHkgYgNgBHAgC4AgQwtRE8BpY2VsAyBuzm8H4AIQBcB0aBtAEbDlBaBuHFB5ZQrBAHAcUCRJJxxQ c2Eb8Gl0nicEIAGgCGAFQDUtGTCoJSBkA2BuB5AsG1O6bBvwYQVAHdIJgGcHkS8bsR3SHBQDUGEH gS4gfCBUHeAb8BGwE+AdwG/XHAAbQB2RYwuAZyHwHVDwdWdoIB0CBCAkYSCj+R4AaXobQCRhANAF oARh9yGQJtEd4GkFwCDQCYAjgYMKhQqLbGkxODAC0fJpIFA0NA3wDNAqgwtZXDE2CqADYBPQYwVA LV8spwqHK1sMMCwmRgNhOmctriwmDIIgKCPAA3FzHikxUAhQBKAc8GspW0BTTVRQOkIJ4EOnA2AB gASQQGEG8C4nQf5dLU8uXQZgAjAvjzCbL0BKaSeAeSEASnUhYTFCMSEAMTk5NzjxOjQwNRSwTTQf Ll1UbwM2XzCbQkVFLUxAAENOU0lCTS5BAExCQU5ZLkVExlU6HzUudWJqLGE8P6kwm1JlQfBOJiVz KK+5KbMzNisnGkUsJkkDoP5hG1AHkB9QIiAgkCeRHFA5OWAtMEjgOQA48DM6qzmRSWAgP1BUIQB5 CGAsIHcFEBPQOkSsPDzfCoVJ4BswBcAAkG4dACWg9xGAGRAlAm9MciRhHKUdgfZ1HlAhkGkCIB7D C2AyUN0bomYEkAdAGwBpGzAEIPcLgEvmHdJ2HPALgB+QOIH/GvUdUBziT3FIASCVHYAhYP8lAhxx HtIgAhu0UHMjkCPBV0vmJJAHkWQCICcFQGHccHAekiRhAMBrSFEmUycltE8hTi9uLkvmID7+Plpn RAEFQCQRA6Ad4BYQ/yOgGvAd0AuAT8FM0iKTVrLuZjjAIWEgoGEH4B3STqn7IAIe0nJOwEvmC4Ak YSHIPx3RG/AD8B0hV/oDcGItHx7AJeAkcF0jSkJleHT/I0AscWOQB4BhswqFYhNW8L8dxCNRSnBc Qx3SYxIgIiB+dB/BT4AfkCFQXZIhkXX+cBugBcARgAQgAmAdYCABvyOARK9Fv0bMCoUVMQBt4AAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzAAoG4YjI68AUAACDAAoG4YjI68AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAcXQ= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8E53.08B15380-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:48:26 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rick Grossman Subject: Re: Handling a twoweek old swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to all that responded to my inquiry. While the string method sounded appealing, I had no string so went with the rubber bands. I got about 5 frames of brood comb put in place - will check tomorrow (Saturday) to see how the hive is coming along. I don't know what amount of that brood will make it or not. All the honey had been eaten out, so I started feeding sugar syrup. When I originally collected the "swarm", a lot of the bees stayed behind. I went and got a lot of them two days later, believing them to be a lot of the field bees - put them in after I put the comb in the frames with the rubber bands. I will report back the bees' progress after the next inspection. Rick Grossman Newberg (southwest of Portland), Oregon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 06:21:27 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Oil Fogger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I woke up at 4:30am and could not get back to sleep thinking about the person who purchased a fogger to treat with mineral oil. The reason I could not sleep is that I had to kill my first hive because the hive I bought had AFB. Late in the evening, after all the bees were in the hive, I plugged up all the holes and poured a cup of gas down the inner cover hole and closed the hive up. I will never forget the noise that came from the hive. It is hard even writing this now, remembering. I am very concerned about using a fogger to dispense mineral oil. At first glance, it sounds like an easy way to dispense the oil. But recent posts, which got very angry replys, told us of angry and dead bees after applying "too much" oil using a honey bear as directed, make me wonder if we are heading for disaster using a fogger. First, if "too much" oil can kill, where is the advice from the proponets of oil on how to apply it with a fogger. I know it is untrod ground, but any high school math grad could figure out application rates based on the amounts presently used. You need to know the fogger rate and from that you can get the max time of the fogging. My guess is that it will be in the seconds range. My other guess is that it will be over applied if ther is no advice, and the gentleman who is trying this will kill his bees. I do not want him to go through what I did. They know it when the hive is dying. I would hope the proponets of the oil treatment would step in and make this a little more scientific than just- go for it. At least for the sake of the bees. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:04:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Victor E Sten Subject: Re: Fogging Mineral Oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few words of caution! Do not fog the mineral oil, the method may work well but it could cost you your life. Fogged/atomized mineral oil applied in a cylinder (hive box) will in the right mixture with air be explosive, combine this with the ever present ignition devise (smoker) and you have the ingredients for a disaster. Talking about the m.oil treatment I would like to hereby thank Dr. Pedro R. for his contributions in the fight against the mighty mites. Viktor in Hawkesbury, Ontario. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 20:57:48 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: hive population ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:29 PM 7/8/97 EDT, you wrote: >According to JRmintin@AOL.COM: >> >> i give each one of my bees a name. this helps keep track of them. lately i >> have been running out of names we all have problems Jerry the beekeeper >> According to Frederick L. Hollen >I only name the queens. Keeps things simpler. In case of a >supercedure or swarm the new queen gets the same name, with a >Roman numeral after it (II, III, IV) as with human royalty. If you >really want to name them all, you could thus recycle the names >about every 6 weeks. Hope this helps. I started by naming hives alphabetically from Athens and Budapest down to Xanadu, Yokohama and Zanzibar. Edinburgh's claim to fame was as the most aggressive hive I ever encountered - I had to divide the hive 3 successive times to get the population down far enough to locate the queen - gave me great satisfaction to squash that one. Quarrelsome lot, the Scots. So as not to be accused of racist remarks (and I ran out of names) these days I number boxes and list queens according to breeding line and year e.g. W1* is the breeder queen, all her daughter queens bred this year are W1/97 and a daughter selected as a breeder is W1-1*. The initial letter indicates the first origin of the line. The Roman numerals is a good idea. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I caught another swarm late yesterday evening. shook them off a blackberry >vine into a new hive with six frames of drawn comb. I had someone look at >the hive and they said. some are going in and out but some are swarming >around the hive. I did not move the hive after I caught the swarm. I >simply sat it on a milk crate. > >Sound normal? Why the still swarming around the hive? If a swarm does not immediately leave the hive box, it has adopted it as a new home. If the queen has not entered, the entire swarm will leave again within 5 minutes. Perhaps the swarming noted by your observer is bees orienting on the entrance. All field bees will have to re-orient to the new location and there is a lot of hovering for a day or so. Sounds pretty right to me. Betty McAdam> HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: misery loves company In a message dated 97-07-12 03:02:39 EDT, you write: << On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Eunice Wonnacott wrote: > Eric: > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve your > self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! isn't that a rather "age-ist" comment? >> Perhaps there is an advantage to keeping hives in all deep boxes- the women you get that can help will be manly women. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:04:59 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Swarm In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970712115750.00677530@kigateway.kin.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > If a swarm does not immediately leave the hive box, it has adopted it as > a new home. It's not at all uncommon, though, for such an apparently settled swarm to leave again from their new home around dusk the same day -- unless 1.) there is a frame of open brood added or 2.) the hive is relocated at a distant site (where they cannot navigate to continue on their planned journey). Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:29:25 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Fogging Mineral Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Do not fog the mineral oil, the method may work well but it could cost > you your life.... Fogged/atomized mineral oil applied in a cylinder > (hive box) will in the right mixture with air be explosive, combine this > with the ever present ignition devise (smoker) and you have the > ingredients for a disaster. Hmmm. I understand that formic acid is also explosive in the correct mixture and so is cyanide (used for many years as a method of killing hives), yet I've never heard of any explosions... As a matter of interest, I recently received a note that the oil foggers of which I had heard and enquired on this list may have been used to vaporize Mavrik or some such chemical into hives, rather than mineral oil, so it is interesting that someone is going to try using mineral oil. The idea is intriguing, and I salute the person who has gotten a fogger and is going to tinker a bit. As I recall, that person has a lot of bees. One does not keep that many hives for long without having a lot of smarts, so I imagine that there will be careful experimenting with quantity of oil, concentration of fog, and timing before very many hives get fogged. Nonetheless, the warning about smokers may be a good one, since for the oil fog to circulate through a hive, I should imagine that the bees would ideally *not* be clustered much, and that they should be fanning. Smoke helps obtain these conditions. I recall that -- when younger-- we used to fill 5 gallon cans with an oxygen/acetylene mixture and apply a spark with a spark plug tester transformer. Parts of the cans would be found a long way off; the sides usually separated at the seam and became more or less a flat piece and the ends balloned, then attempted earth orbit. So I can personally testify that a small volume of the correct gases mixed just right can generate a lot of bang. It wouldn't be hard to do a test explosion of oil fog in free air or an empty hive to evalute the hazard, but the best thing is obviously not to smoke a hive after applying the fog. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:34:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: No drones >From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." >Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:50:33 -0700 >Subject: No drones >Ever since changing over to plastic foundation and lack of feral hives in >the vicinity, I have noticed less drones flying in and out of my hives. The >bees don't appear to make drone cells on plastic foundation. Hi Paul, Drones can drift in from hives miles away so if you don't want drones in your hives you would need a queen excluder over the entrances. >Perhaps this will help minimize the varroa invasion = no drone brood to >carry out the life cycle?? One of the real early fears about the Vampire mite was that it was going to kill enough drones so that virgin queens would not get mated fully or even at all. A UC Davis grad student even wrote a paper on it and how it would effect his queen bee matings in Greece. Don't have a copy at hand, but do know that queens are still getting mated with a full load of drone deposits here and there. Would say sperm but don't want to get into the gender wars. ttul, the OLd Drone, or to bee more politically correct the OLd Bee or is it OLd Son Of Bee with not Father. I get confused as some say it was my Grandfather who was my father, but he died before my Mom was hatched so there could have been no insectivorous relationship. --- ~ QMPro 1.53 ~ "Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:26:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8EAE.1EA33F40" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8EAE.1EA33F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Betty's statement is generally true, but there are rare exceptions. This year I've hived 42 swarms and 2 of them settled into the box nicely = the first=20 day, only to abscond hours later the same day, or the next day. In one = case I=20 put them back in the same box and then they stayed. The other one took = off across the countryside and I lost track of it when it crossed a = creek. In both cases, the queen was in the box. A frame of brood in all stages of development will generally keep a = swarm in a box even if they don't particularly like it. Problem is, I = don't always have a spare frame of brood handy when hiving a swarm. If a swarm does not immediately leave the hive box, it has adopted it as = a new home. If the queen has not entered, the entire swarm will leave = again within 5 minutes. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8EAE.1EA33F40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjYRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADAFAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9sb2d5AFNNVFAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHAAAACdEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9s b2d5JwACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOkJFRS1MQENOU0lCTS5BTEJBTlkuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAFCjUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEACgAAAFJFOiBTd2FybQD7AgEFgAMADgAAAM0HBwAMAAoAGgAoAAYAOQEBIIADAA4A AADNBwcADAAKABoAKAAGADkBAQmAAQAhAAAANDg0RDUyNjQ5OUZBRDAxMUEyNTg0MDNBMDJDMTA2 MjcA4QYBA5AGAHQEAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAIJx9 wuiOvAEeAHAAAQAAAAoAAABSRTogU3dhcm0AAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvI7own1kUk1M+pkR0KJY QDoCwQYnAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEAAAAG13ckBob3RjaXR5LmNvbQAD AAYQBFlxgAMABxBsAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQkVUVFlTU1RBVEVNRU5USVNHRU5FUkFMTFlUUlVF LEJVVFRIRVJFQVJFUkFSRUVYQ0VQVElPTlNUSElTWUVBUklWRUhJVkVENDJTV0FSTVNBTkQyT0ZU SEVNU0VUVExFRElOVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAAoDAAAGAwAAkAQAAExaRnXyItH0/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesC gwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2Tvx Fg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUSUL8mMAQCBCEcB0efYnBCATwGET0QnwBUAEABwgZwnw BJAHQGx5IIR0cgpQLCBidQVA5HRoBJBlIArAHcAcgKEdsWV4Y2UFMGkCICRzLgqFVGgcEXllcQrB SSd2HcAfoCBQZNwgNBHgA+AKwG0EIABw0yDAEeBvZh1ybRtgGwFmbCCxC4B0bx1yHTBvPHggAwAe kByyI0FmaccRoAVACoVkYXkdIAIg/xyyIxABoATwAiAgwCBwCGGfBCALYBPQBcAjMnNhB4C3JSUn NBxgeAVAJTEuJnDOSQOgAiAdwGNhEbAgIK0ktnAdVCJAYgDQayLR/ydII3Ihgh2BK5McwBtxH+Du ZCkhH5AdwG8dgilzIwD+bytgIeAh8ADQA2AEESMy1QWgdQIwchOwaQ2wIXO/KhAVoCSRHOArQiHh aQVA3ncs0jIRL3MgsWEysQng3mspJAbgHYAps3MdICMy/nEKUCzhISAEICuFI3EfFr0KhUEkUByA J7Eh4WIDYP8EcCtyHJEbYhxABCAh4Q2weyBQFaBwG8MD8DiRHEhr/QngcDMxIRM4QyNjOXEycesh 8xzAZAIgJwVACrEewJRjdQtgchyxbGk7EPsyASkhUANgAmAiMQQAHSC/KhA9RAdAISATsCBwYSBR /zthCrEkQTd8EYAhkBzAMkN7IIELgGc7VjZdCvQ+cDN+Ng3wGdwTUC4wBZAkp0lvL0E7dT1AB5Fu LjAcAG39B4BkBzAT0D5CH/AgUSMy/yCCI2IdIDIREYAhYT1ABTD/IrJAMSFhCoUcYAfgJpAHgH8p IiHzNQVLAkiSG9EdoWT/NLQb0SRwJ3E7kzojSZQ44B8LcQqFA/AdgCuBNSBt/wuAHVAHkEQfRS8a RCS2FTECAFXwAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMEDBfgrnjrwBQAAIMCCcfcLojrwBHgA9AAEA AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAfPw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8EAE.1EA33F40-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:58:54 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Fogging mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote in response to the first quote: First quote > Do not fog the mineral oil, the method may work well but it could cost > > you your life.... Fogged/atomized mineral oil applied in a cylinder > > (hive box) will in the right mixture with air be explosive, combine this > > with the ever present ignition devise (smoker) and you have the > > ingredients for a disaster. Dick wrote > Hmmm. > > I understand that formic acid is also explosive in the correct mixture and > so is cyanide (used for many years as a method of killing hives), yet I've > never heard of any explosions... Nor have I from formic acid or cyanide. But I have from fogged liquid, and they do not even have to be confined. In the US Navy I experimented with them and they eventually were used in Vietnam with great effect as a dispersed gas which was then ignited. Even flour, when in a dust in air, has caused disasterous explosions. The advice was well meant and right on. To discount it was not. As an aside. Why is it when someone questions anything about mineral oil are they leapt on by some people on this list? If the stuff works, it will stand up under any questioning and the questioner does not need to be belittled for asking. To quote Elwin P. Dowd (close enough- Jimmy Stewart in Harvy) " In this life you can be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. I prefer pleasant." (Also close enough. You get the idea.) Or in the words of that immortal (or is it immoral) bard, Rodney King, "Can't we all get along?" Peace, and may your bed be free of cracker crumbs. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:05:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Re: Swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Reddell, Where are you located that you can catch 42 swarms? Are these from your apiary or are they calls that you get? Do you get this many swarms every year or is this exceptional? How many hives do you have total if you caught 42 this year? Just wondering-----------billy bee ---------- From: Michael Reddell To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Swarm Date: 12 juil. 1997 13:26 Betty's statement is generally true, but there are rare exceptions. This year I've hived 42 swarms and 2 of them settled into the box nicely the first day, only to abscond hours later the same day, or the next day. In one case I put them back in the same box and then they stayed. The other one took off across the countryside and I lost track of it when it crossed a creek. In both cases, the queen was in the box. A frame of brood in all stages of development will generally keep a swarm in a box even if they don't particularly like it. Problem is, I don't always have a spare frame of brood handy when hiving a swarm. If a swarm does not immediately leave the hive box, it has adopted it as a new home. If the queen has not entered, the entire swarm will leave again within 5 minutes. ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:32:28 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Jul 1997 to 10 Jul 1997 In-Reply-To: <868593915.123898.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <868593915.123898.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >Earwigs are attracted to half open matchboxes filled with damp wood shavings >or rotten leaves The easy way is to place an inverted plastic drinks cup on top of a garden cane. The earwigs go up the cane in the night, run around the edge of the cup looking for an escape route and can be removed in the morning. -- Tom Speight Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:02:08 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Fogging Mineral Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Victor E Sten wrote: Dear Viktor: Thank you very much for the warning. I have not tried fogging MO, but now I am sure that I wont! Also thank you for the your kind words. Please stay in touch. I continue waging my private battle against bee mites. I think that it will take a lot of effort (all working together before we can lick this terrible menace to humanity. Many people do no realize how much there at stake with these plague. Hopefully together we will lick it. Best regards Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:32:37 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Oil Fogger Comments: To: mister-t@clinic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Bill Truesdell wrote: Dear Bill: I think that I can safely claim as being the originator, hence the number one proponent for the use of FOOD GRADE mineral oil for the treatment of bee mites and therefor I will reply to your last post on the use of mineral oil. Previously, you stated that you would not use it. SO, don't. I do not like to kill ANYTHING that lives! Nada, Nil, nich, Zero. In my entire professional life I have not applied euthanasia to any animal. I have promised that I never will. I do not even kill drones in my hives. I think that they have a right to live. I can see that you would feel badly about having to kill your own bees. I sympathize with you, believe me, I do. You could have spared yourself the misery if you had been counseled properly before you disposed of your AFB sick bees. There is a standard procedure that employs cyanide in which one hears not even the slightest stir within the hive. I sincerely hope that you wont be in need of disposing of any more AFB infested colonies, but should you be, please let me know and I'll describe the method to which I am referring. In the meantime, I wish that you would quit worrying about MINERAL OIL. I am sure that in time the use of it will prove its worth or disprove its value. To help ease your concerns, if you care, let me suggest that you do a bit of reading and find out in how many ways mineral oil is used in medical and veterinary practice. I am not being silly, I am serious. Let me assure you, it is used widely because it is SAFE! Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA (USA) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:52:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jay B. Little" Subject: Mite treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am new to list and am interested in using mineral oil for the treatment of mites. Could someone please tell me the procedure of using this method. thanks, Jay B. Little West Palm Beach, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:49:47 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Mite treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DFD7179140776AE649B9F8D6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DFD7179140776AE649B9F8D6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jay B. Little wrote: Dear Jay: I am the originator of the procedure. With pleasure I will send you a copy of the a file that I posted to Bee-L some time back. Please write to me and let me know if you still have doubts after you read the file. By all means please stay in touch. Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA --------------DFD7179140776AE649B9F8D6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mineral oil for bee mites treatment.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mineral oil for bee mites treatment.txt" From - Tue Jun 03 22:08:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: from sysx.systronix.net (SYSX.SYSTRONIX.NET [204.209.166.9]) by mh004.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA17786 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialin9.internode.net (dialin9.internode.net [198.161.228.109]) by sysx.systronix.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id za033643 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:55:59 -0600 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Allen Dick" Organization: The Beekeepers To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:53:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Bee Mites And Mineral Oil Reply-to: allend@internode.net Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Message-Id: <22555949301934@systronix.net> X-UIDL: 7c4aad5e0b1e438a2d7d75dd3c21f20f X-Mozilla-Status: 2001 ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net To: allend@internode.net Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:49:52 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Bee Mites And Mineral Oil Priority: normal Here is the text copy which I have relayed to Best of Bee just now. You may wish to cut and paste it into an email and try posting to BEE-L again. If you would like, I could send it there for you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your following message has been delivered to the 242 members of the list BestOfBee@systronix.net at 16:45:36 on 3 Jun 1997. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is Dr Pedro Rodriguez's release regarding his mineral oil research: --- Bee Mites And Mineral Oil I wish to apologize for the delay in publication of details of my work on this subject. The reasons are unintentional and compelling. There were many questions that I felt needed to be answered (some of which I am still pursuing) and because I suffer from double vision (from a bout with hyperthyroidism) that induces severe headaches after periods of field work, reading, use of word processor and other tasks that require eye strain. Although the project is incomplete, I feel that my findings are significant and valuable to beekeepers who may wish to implement them. Also, my findings may be valuable to other investigators who may wish to perform related work on this subject. Hence release of present findings is considered appro- priate at this stage. (Technical language and statistical data has been carefully limited). Background: Born and raised on a farm, I was initiated with animal husbandry chores as a very young child. I started caring for sick animals by smuggling them into pens heavily crowded by my "patients." I still recall my parents' admonitions for "wasting" time and money on "worthless" causes, especially my mother's for using her castor oil to treat leg mites on chickens and ear mites on rabbits. My experience with mineral oil continued when as a young veterinarian I used mineral oil for treating ear mites on cats. Later in my career, mineral oil became part of my professional "tool bag" when as a government supervisor of food plants, I approved the use of food grade mineral oil for maintenance of food preparation equipment. I observed the first Varroa mites in 1983 while working with honey bees in Spain. From that date, I became fascinated with the ability of the little creatures for attacking honey bee colonies and eventually destroying them. At the time, Fulvex was the chemical of choice in Europe for treatment and cure of bee mites. I suspected mites would eventually develop re- sistance to Fulvex as most often happens with chemicals used for disease control, fact that was later corroborated by other investigators (Faucon et al, 1955; Lodesani et al, 1955; Smodgen et al, 1955). The potential need for a different agent to treat bee mites in case the mites develop resistance, led me to wonder if my "oil treatment of old" would be as effective for the treatment of bee mites. While pondering about this possibility, many other questions arose in my mind. 1. would mineral oil affect honey bees? 2. mode, quantity and frequency of application of the oil. 3. would the oil affect bee larvae or the egg laying ability of the queen? 4. could the oil be applied all year long or be limited to seasons? 5. what would be the mechanism of action of the oil? >From my previous experience, I knew that oil kills mites. I became intrigued with the idea of finding the answer to this puzzling question and started researching literature on mite biology, anatomy, physiology and other factors that could lead to the answer deriving the following data. 1. the body of the bee mites is flat, thus having a high ratio of surface volume (factor also used by Italian researchers of bee mites as expressed on a recent post to Bee-L), charac- teristic that make bee mites vulnerable to treatment with oils. 2. mites, like honey bees, breathe through spiracles. The bee/mite body size differential ratio may be utilized to attack the mites with oil without harming the bees. 3. mites utilize body pores for diffusion of gases and for moisture intake (Gary et al, 1989; Gary et al 1991b; Pugh et al 1992). A study with female mites has demonstrated that mites control gaseous exchange through adjustment of components of their respiratory system (Pugh, PJA; King, PE; Fordy MR Na: Experimental and Applied Acarology, Vol. 15, No. 2, pp 123-139, 1992). 4. mites have a short life cycle (12 days for tracheal mites and 18 days for Varroa mites) and are most vulnerable to treatment during their ectoparasitic phase. After eleven years of consecutive loses of bee colonies to mites and the economic impact that these parasites were having on apiculture worldwide, it was obvious that it was imperative to find an effective treatment for the parasites. Realizing that after continued treatment of my colonies with Apistan strips, mites continued to proliferate and that colony health and size were diminishing, I determined that a vigorous form of treatment had to be implemented. On 1 April 1996, I applied Apistan strips (three strips per colony) between frames in the brood chambers. After six weeks of treatment with Apistan, four colonies had perished and mites continued to proliferate in all remaining colonies. Based on my knowledge of success- ful treatment of mites on domestic animals, treatment was switched from Apistan to mineral oil. All the Apistan strips were removed (after waiting two weeks to allow Apistan to wear off) before starting use of mineral oil in an effort to eliminate the possibility of cross effect between the two agents. Treatment with food grade mineral oil was initiated on 1 June 1996 on twenty colonies while five colonies (randomly selected) were used as controls. Rationale: Mineral oil is effective in the treatment of mites on domestic animals. Food grade mineral oil is approved for use in food processing plants in the United States because it is not toxic and because it does not contaminate food products. Hence, mineral oil, if effective against bee mites, could be utilized for the treatment of bee mites during the entire year contrary to other acaricides that have seasonal limitations. The two species of bee mites existing in the United States (Acarapis woodi and Varroa jacobsoni) spend some of their life span on the surface of their host bee. Because of the known house keeping and grooming habits of the honey bee, it was reasoned that bees would "transfer" oil from their legs to the rest of their body and to other parts of the colony if they came in contact with oil. Food grade mineral oil does not contaminate honey or honey bee products and is not toxic to honey bees, provided that the oil is not applied in excessive quantities (see description of different methods of application employed). Twelve consecutive months of work with oil have revealed amazing (positive) results in the treatment and control of bee mites. Method: A. Laboratory work: 1. Mineral oil was applied with the tip of a prove directly to mites seen on bees. Close observation revealed that mites would drop off the bees (time was not measured). 2. Live mites were carefully collected from various colonies, placed in open glass jars and brought home. Some mites were treated with oil directly in the jars, others were carefully removed (to prevent physical harm) and placed on a glass surface coated with a film of mineral oil, or, on waxed paper or seran wrap coated with a film of mineral oil. Some mites were allowed to remain untreated in the glass jars, surviving for several days. Mites exposed to oil were observed to become motionless almost immediately, however, some remained active (lethal doses or lethal times were not evaluated) for some time. B. Field work: Several methods of application of the mineral oil have been tested in a period of time spanning 51 weeks, (1 June 1996 - 24 May 1996). 1. Sheets of waxed paper or freezer paper were coated with a film of mineral oil and placed on the bottom boards of the colonies. Dead mites were collected and counted. Yields varied between ten in a small colony to 112 in a large colony. 2. Strips of waxed paper (10 inches long x 1 1/2 inches wide) were coated with a film of mineral oil and placed between frames in the brood chambers. The number of strips varied between six and ten depending upon the size of the colonies. Coated strips of paper were replaced every two weeks while this form of application lasted. . 3. A continuous bead of mineral oil (up to 2.5 cc) spread on top bars of the frames. Evaluation of treatment: Effect of the mineral oil treatment was measured by counting mites by uncapping brood cells. Yields varied according to degree of infestation, size of the colonies and length of treatment. Initial count yielded as high as 54 infected cells per one hundred cells opened. Mite count varied between one to three per cell. Mite count per hundred brood cells uncapped dropped drastically (54 % in some colonies to four percent in others) as oil treatment continued. It was acknowledged that the procedure was labor intensive early in the process. Other avenues of treatment were sought in order to make the procedure cost effective to commercial operations dedicating special attention to varying quantities of oil applied. The most successful method was determined to be when oil was applied in a continuous bead along the surface of the top bars. At first, the amount of oil was measured and applied with a graduated eye dropper (available to any beekeeper), arriving at 2.5 cc of oil as a safe quantity (before the bees became soaked in oil). At present, oil is applied from a bottle (similar to a honey bear) with a spout with an opening of 1/16" diameter. Oil is applied steadily, along the top bars leaving a continuous line of oil measuring approximately the size of a thin noodle. In the beginning of the operation, it was thought that the oil should be sprayed on the bars or spread by hand. In the course of the applications it was determined that it is not necessary to spread the oil, the bees spread the oil as soon as they walk on it. I have now designed a board (from bakelite) that blocks the bees inside the brood chamber while the oil is applied. The board is fitted with slits that coincide with the top bars allowing application of the oil while perfectly barring the bees inside to prevent stinging and applying the oil directly to the bees. Observations: After 51 weeks utilizing food grade mineral oil in various ways the following observations have been made: 1. Food grade mineral oil can be utilized effectively to control bee mites (acaricide) with quantities ranging from a mere film applied on waxed paper and up to 2.5 cc applied on the top bars of the frames. 2. Mite count per hundred capped cells examined diminished drastically, (54 % to 4 %). 3. Application of mineral oil in the form described above has not affected the queen's laying ability. 4. All five colonies utilized as controls perished. (Test colonies were distributed in three sites at least ten miles apart and each site had control colonies). 5. Of the twenty colonies utilized for treatment with mineral oil: One absconded; two were small and died due to pilferage. Seventeen remaining colonies are thriving and building very large populations. Two colonies have two brood chambers and eight honey suppers each. Two colonies have two brood chambers and six honey suppers each. 6. Control colonies perished quickly due to a combination of factors: Parasitized bees became weak and abandoned their house keeping habits. Stores were quickly robbed. Queens stopped laying and the bees died fighting the robbers, from disease and lack of food. Nosema was observed in two of the heavily parasitized colonies. 7. The use of sheets of waxed paper smeared with oil and placed on the bottom boards was abandoned promptly because these were observed to become covered with debris thus reducing the effectiveness of the oil. Waxed paper or other impervious type paper placed on the bottom boards while treatment is taking place maybe valuable if used for the purpose of collecting and counting dead mites. 8. Capped cell exams revealed mites within drone cells as well as in worker bee cells. 9. Worker bee samples were collected, dissected and examined for tracheal mites. No tracheal mites were found during the test period. 10. Mineral oil was applied continuously every two weeks during the test period including the winter months. The use of mineral oil did not affect egg laying of the queens nor the health of the developing larvae. While it may seem that oil applications should be made more frequently (judging by the presence of mites after 51 weeks of treatment) economics tend to indicate that more frequent applications might be prohibitive. This remains as one of my questions still under study. Conclusion: Contrasted to the characteristics of other oils, lard, Apistan or menthol (used as acaricides), mineral oil seems to offer a preferable medium based on per unit cost, physical characteristics (odorless, flavorless, does not deteriorate, does not contaminate honey or bee products, can be utilized all year long) for utilization as an acaricide. --- NB:1.Send replies to the author or BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU - not this list 2.To unsubscribe, email HoneyBee@systronix.net saying leave BestOfBee --------------DFD7179140776AE649B9F8D6-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:29:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: Swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think we finally got them. Wed. caught them off blackberry vine. Thurs. evening they left the box and swarmed on a tree limb about 12 feet high. got them into a swarm trap by strapping to a latter and holding under them from the back of my 4-wheeler trailer. My landlord reached up and shook the limb with a long prunner. Friday noon they swarmed back to the tree. However by 5:00pm they left the limb and went back to the box. 5:30 we moved them back to reg. box. Baseball today but did not hear anything from landlord bad. Stupid bees. Don't they know I'm busy? Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Chauvin Honey Farms, Sports America Monroe, La http://sports.iamerica.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: hive population ? It seems to me the original posting under this heading was asking for a way to estimate a hive's population; we seem to have gotten off the subject. I, too, would like an answer to his question. I have three hives with widely varying populations, and would like to know which is "normal". Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:57:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Robert A. Roach" Subject: Bee Wranglers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Ulee's Gold I just saw the movie "Ulee's gold" and when it came to the credits I saw = they did not have any bee wrangler. They had a dog wrangler though and = all that dog ever did was lay on the porch. Somebody had to wrangle = those bees too. I think it was much harder to make a swarm than to have = an old dog lie down on the porch. The credits did list 4 or 5 bee = consultants. =20 I really enjoyed the movie. Check it out if it is playing near you. Bob Roach ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:40:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Ulee's Gold Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I finally went to see Ulee's Gold tonight, thanks to a few movie passes. Had heard a lot of good things about this movie, including on this list, and was not disappointed. IMO, this bee movie was one of the most authentic scripts, giving a true glimpse of life as a beekeeeper. It definetly was a pleasure to watch in comparison to the sci-fi killer bee movie several weeks ago. It could not have come at a better time to help increase public awareness with regards to our friends - the honeybees. And, lad to see that credits were given to "the cast of thousands" = the bees. I highly recommend this movie for your viewing pleasure. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:03:02 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Need Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Whilst I am always pleased to see a beekeeper tackle the direct marketing of his product I doubt that it is a good idea to start by filling 2500 honey bears. A market this size requires a little practice to handle, not only in the requirements for labelling but in selecting honeys and processing so as to postpone candying for a reasonable shelf life. Start small and local so that marketing problems can be solved on a small scale rather than incurring the risk of having your product judged unacceptable and returned. Is there a local beekeeping association you can join to learn the tricks of the trade? Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Twine (smoker fuel) - is it coated with preservative ?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" QUESTION: Almost all of the twine we get is light green in color, >suggesting that there is some type of preservative on/in it. Anyone know >what it is, or if products of its combustion might be especially >dangerous/toxic to the bees? If you contact a stock agent (you may have another name for these companies - they supply fencing materials, rope, farm supplies to farmers and frequently also as agents for sale of livestock) they will be able to identify the twine and what it is comprised of. Much jute twine has been replaced by a black polypropylene twine which is presumably more durable but which I would not like to ignite in my smoker. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Another swarm story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Truly amazing how often bees will work out their own best survival strategy. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Fellow Beekeepers: Ken Lawrence here about 25 miles north of Kansas City Mo. Pulled honey off of 12 hives yesterday and brought home 19 supers full. Left 2 supers on the hives to help out on the room as there were many bees. I have this yard close to a large Basswood Tree grove. Honey sure tasted good. Have the water heater heating up now so will be unncapping in about a hour. Still have 18 hives to remove from but in different areas. Some of the hives have 6-7 supers plus they are pulling out fouundation on hive bodies. This has been a SUPER year on the first honey flow. Have 100 supers and about 10 hive bodies on my 30 hives. Some hives will have a new Queen this fall or have company of a strong hive to go into the winter with. Need to get supers off and back on for the soybeans. Soybeans are in bloom here now. Well off to the beeshed with a big grin. Hope y'all are having a good year. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 09:38:47 -0700 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Curtis Spacek Subject: Re: Treatment for varroa using mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit some people are just entirly too sensitive.probably a hormonal thing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:59:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Franklin Almond Subject: Feeding sugar syrup MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have started two new hives which are Italians bees and the Queen is a Buckfast queen. The queens are laying a good brood pattern. My question is when I add another half gallon of sugar syrup, there is lots more activity at the entrance of each hive. Seem like that robber bees are coming in but there is no fighting at the entrances. Do bees load up with sugar syrup, leave the hive and then come back to place the sugar nectar in the storage cells? I see lots of bees with pollen on their back legs going in too. I know is going to be very productive next year if things go as they are now. This my first time trying the Buckfast Queens. All answers will help me learn more about THE WONDER WORLD OF BEEKEEPING as a hobby. Mark F. Almond Concord, NC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:06:19 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wilhelm E Kaosse Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 11 Jul 1997 to 12 Jul 1997 Today I finally purchased some mineral oil which I thought had a probability of being FOOD GRADE. I live in a border community(Point Roberts, WA) and had to go into Canada to find ANY mineral oil. The feed stores & pet stores had oil but it seemed to have other additives so I figured it wasn't FOOD GRADE. Drug stores though, do carry mineral oil--- but there are two types. One(LIGHT MINERAL OIL) is labeled as a rub and the other(HEAVY MINERAL OIL USP) is labelled as a laxative. Assuming the laxative to be FOOD-GRADE, I purchased a half litre for under $5 Canadian. Can anyone verify that THIS is the Canadian version of FOOD GRADE mineral oil or suggest a less expensive source? Stuart Grant(49degrees N; 123 degrees, 20 min W; elevation 20m; Strait of Georgia 2k; rural urban combination in an oceanside temperate rainforest setting) -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:12:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Fogging Mineral Oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:54 AM 7/11/97 -0400, you wrote: > Keeping 800 hives leaves no time to put oil on top bars. I decided >that I needed to come up with something else. > > I went to Builders Square bought a $50 Burgess Portable >Propane Fogger. They use them to fog insecticide. I filled it with >mineral oil (food grade of course), pulled the trigger and like >magic I had Mineral Oil fog. I don't know yet how it will work in my >hives. I will set some aside soon for testing. > > I still don't know if oil will be effective as fog. Also I don't >know how long this machine, which was made for insecticide, will continue >to make MO fog. > The Burgess Propane Fogger is designed to be used with a mineral based insecticide so it will not effect the longivity of it however it may have an adverse effect on the bees. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Feeding sugar syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mark Franklin Almond wrote: Dear Mark: Generally, honey bees will allow entrance to their hives only to bees that share their "mark" of pheromones or to bees that come to their landing laden with food or water. Any others are generally chased away. Hence, your condition seems highly irregular. My only guess is that your bees are not yet quite impregnated with the pheromones of their new queen and thus are allowing others in. Not to worry, if you have a strong enough population in those hives, they will soon chase away those robbers that come in looking for a free meal. One thing to do is to make sure that you reduce the entrance to your hives. This might be contradictory at this time though. During the summer season you want to make sure that the entrance to the hive is free and allows lots or air circulation. Use common sense. Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:57:57 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 11 Jul 1997 to 12 Jul 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Wilhelm E Kaosse wrote: Dear Wil: You want to use the USP type mineral oil (used as a laxative). However, you should be able to find stores in the US that charge around US$2.00 for a pint. Do you have Drug Emporium, SuperKmart, Pharmor, Revco type stores in your area? Those would carry medicinal type mineral oil (their brand is equal in quality to USP mineral and acceptable. Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:00:57 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Big Happy Face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Just finished with my 19 supers mentioned in earlier post. Looks like I got about 600 lbs of honey extracted. I can see some bottles going to the Fair this year. This honey has a great taste. Well just letting y'all know how I came out today. Will be moving bees tonight over to soybeans. I keep all my bees on trailers so the move will be very easy. Have 4 hives on one and 8 on the other in this yard. This is the first year to use my Cowen Mini Uncapper. I bought it used but it works GREAT. About 50 seconds to uncap a 9 frame super. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 18:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Mineral oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just got to thinking about all this use of mineral oil. If there is this much interest as we are seeing on the net and there seems to be quite a bit, then the stores that sell it and the manufactuers are going to be wondering what's going on. Hope this doesn't cause a run. (no pun intended) (Yeah ---it was) billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:05:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Franklin Almond Subject: Bottom board revising MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am wondering if anyone has tried leaving the back slat off the bottm board? This would allow another entrance and would give more air circulation in the Summer months. Would this be a good idea? Mark F. Almond Concord, NC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:11:27 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Franklin Almond Subject: Moving beehives MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have two beehives that I would like to move to another location which is about 200 feet away. I would like to have all hives in one location. How would I go about moving these two hives? Or wait til colder weather? Mark F. Almond Concord, NC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:29:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Chester T. Lauck" Subject: Re: Moving beehives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, I have heard that moving them requires one of two things, 3 feet or over 1.5 miles. I have moved them 2 or 3 hundred feet and only had a few straglers. I moved them when the weather was not good flying weather. I don't know if this is what others do, but it works for me. Good Luck with your move. Chester Lauck J&J Farm/Apiary ---------- > From: Mark Franklin Almond > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Moving beehives > Date: Monday, July 14, 1997 12:11 AM > > I have two beehives that I would like to move to another location which > is about 200 feet away. I would like to have all hives in one location. > How would I go about moving these two hives? Or wait til colder weather? > > Mark F. Almond > Concord, NC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:43:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Chester T. Lauck" Subject: Re: Feeding sugar syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, the pollen on the legs is indeed a good sign, as for the robber bees, if they are infact robber bees, according to an aticle in a Bee Journel about a year or so ago, they stated that robber bees would fly in a zig-zag pattern while approaching the hive while the foragers fly straight in. Good luck in identifing. Chester Lauck J&J Farm/Apiary ---------- > From: Mark Franklin Almond > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Feeding sugar syrup > Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 1:59 PM > > I have started two new hives which are Italians bees and the Queen is a > Buckfast queen. The queens are laying a good brood pattern. My question > is when I add another half gallon of sugar syrup, there is lots more > activity at the entrance of each hive. Seem like that robber bees are > coming in but there is no fighting at the entrances. Do bees load up with > sugar syrup, leave the hive and then come back to place the sugar nectar > in the storage cells? I see lots of bees with pollen on their back legs > going in too. I know is going to be very productive next year if things > go as they are now. This my first time trying the Buckfast Queens. > All answers will help me learn more about THE WONDER WORLD OF BEEKEEPING > as a hobby. > > Mark F. Almond > Concord, NC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:38:05 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Mineral oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 bartlett wrote: > Just got to thinking about all this use of mineral oil. If there is > this much interest as we are seeing on the net and there seems to be > quite a bit, then the stores that sell it and the manufactuers are > going to be wondering what's going on. Hope this doesn't cause a run. > > (no pun intended) (Yeah ---it was) > > billy bee Good one, Billy! Nice to hear from you! Best regards Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:41:15 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: sugar syrup and bee activity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" First, I find it quite normal to get extra activity at the hive entrance when sugar syrup is introduced. If the hive is new, and has not been fed before, the bees may be quite hungry, and therefore the new food gets them going. I watched a hive near starvation come back to life almost immediately when sugar syrup was introduced. Next, if the hive is a swarm, they don't have any food with them for a long stay, and if the weather has been bad, then the food again is probably just getting them back to be active. I doubt seriously if robber bees are the cause of the extra activity. I am feeding a weak swarm, we've had lots of rain in our area, and the other hives are ignoring the whole thing, they are too intent on real nectar. Hope you are medicating the bees, if you don't expect honey from them this summer, medicate and use apistan to keep them healthy. Next year there will be a strong hive. 0000,0000,ffffW. J. Fernihough (Bill, billfern@istar.ca Engineer, Beekeeper, Computer Nerd ffff,0000,0000All things cometh to he who waiteth if he worketh like hell while he waiteth. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:50:28 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: moving bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Lots of talk about moving bees. First, I move bees regularly, and have noticed few things. If you move them a bit, say 3 feet each day, on sunny days, they can tolerate it ok. The trick is to move very early in the morning, but I prefer after sunset. I put the hive, usually a super or two, in a wheelbarrow, and just move it 3 feet each night. Any direction is ok, back, forward, sideways. The trick seems to be to keep the entrance in the same direction. That gets them around my small lot ok. They seem to get used to being moved each day, and it seems to be important that they are moved before they get active for the day. So don't move during the day. Second, if they bees are confined for a few days, cloudy, rainy, cold, winter, they seem to tolerate longer moves ok. I have kept moving them on cloudy days the 3 feet mentioned, and although they did not go out, they seemed to accommodate a 9 foot difference on the first day of return to activity. So you might get away with 200 feet. If you really have to do this, its safer to wait till winter. Its a pain otherwise. If it doesn't work, you are out a lot of bees. 0000,0000,ffffW. J. Fernihough (Bill, billfern@istar.ca Engineer, Beekeeper, Computer Nerd ffff,0000,0000All things cometh to he who waiteth if he worketh like hell while he waiteth. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 02:00:10 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Twine (smoker fuel) - is it coated with preservative ?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >QUESTION: Almost all of the twine we get is light green in color, >>suggesting that there is some type of preservative on/in it. > Much jute twine has been >replaced by a black polypropylene twine... Baler twine (natural, not plastic) is not jute but sisal. The fibers come from the agave cactus. Jute is used for bags, such as potato bags. I do not know if it is treated. Sisal twine usually IS treated even if it is not coloured. The light green colour is likely copper napthenate. But if zinc napthenate is used for treatment there would be no colour. Almost all sisal twine is treated to be insect and rodent resistant. I used it for smoker fuel for years since I always seemed to have some in my pocket, and found it burnt great. But I no longer use it because several people remarked that I was poisoning myself. It is not really necessary since there are so many other things that are just as good. I now grab a bit of sawdust from under the table saw and mix it with a bit of dried manure that I scrape from the stable wall where it splashes and dries to a crisp flake. The smoke from the manure is not at all unpleasant surprisingly. Even though it is not wholesome smoker fuel, sisal twine is a much nicer product than the plastic. It provides an export product for developing nations. It is less likely to cause bowel impaction if animals eat it accidentally. If some goes out the manure spreader accidentally it decomposes in the soil more quickly. And the treatment actually makes rodents less likely to chew it than the plastic twine. Unfortunately this year the price difference between the two is the highest it has ever been, with the sisal costing 50 percent more than plastic. An addition to the thread (strand?) on twine stan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:07:18 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bruce Hamilton Subject: Wax Moth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Early this summer I was able to add (3) hives from swarms that I caught. This then totaled 6 hives that I have. It seems that I have not poor luck with all three. All three hives (from the caught swarms) have left. Two of them started comb and had some capped brood. I was away for about 5 weeks and when I can back my only active hives were my original ones. When I examined the empthy hives I notices wax moth larve and some type of spider web material. My other 3 hives are quite well. Question: Are newly established swarms more suseptable to the wax moth? If so , the how do you protect them? Thankls for any help. Bruce Hamilton BruceHam@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:07:29 GMT+0 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "p.munn" Organization: University of Central Lancashire Subject: Re: noxious substances in honey Hi Penny and B-Liners My ancient ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping refers to poisonous honey being used as a form of chemical warfare in 400BC in an ancient country on the Black Sea. Apparently Rhododendron Honey , collected from hives! was used to render 10000 soldiers senseless for a day or two. The same ABC and XYZ refers to Mountain Laurel (Kalma latifolia) honey as being poisonous. Apparently 15 pounds were analyzed but no poisonous substance was identified. However when some of the honey was consumed it produced a tingling in the feet and toes; then difficulty in standing ' followed by a severe headache. It is advised to test the honey by first feeding it to a dog and observing its behaviour. Refer to the 1972 ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping, A I ROOT CO. pp511 -512 regards to the List Peter Wilson Edmonton, Alberta Canada Hello Peter and list, Thank you for this information. I presume Rhododendron honey is only poisonous under certain conditions - these plants grow wild all across the west coast of Scotland but I don't think they contribute much to my honey. They flower quite early in the year and the bees don't pay them much attention. (I hope not, anyway!) I've put in an order for the ABC & XYZ - it sounds just my kind of bedtime reading, although getting the 1972 edition is probably a little beyond the university bookstore. Penny Munn, Preston, Lancashire (but the bees live in Cumbernauld, Scotland) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:45:55 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Swarm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Betty's statement is generally true, but there are rare exceptions. >This year I've hived 42 swarms and 2 of them settled into the box nicely the first >day, only to abscond hours later the same day, or the next day. In one case I >put them back in the same box and then they stayed. The other one took off across the countryside and I lost track of it when it crossed a creek. In both cases, the queen was in the box. > Now that my memory cells have been jogged I do recall being summoned by my across the road neighbour some years back to collect a swarm that had settled on a low bush. I wheeled a hive across the road on my trolley, dumped the swarm in and watched them settle and explained I would pick them up after dusk when all the bees would have gone inside. No problem apparently but my neighbour then decided to whipper snipper the road verge and marched up and down within 20 yards of the hive trailing petrol fumes and noisome clatter. It takes a 30 minute conversation to get a point across to him so I just watched from across the road wondering what my legal liability was if the bees took offence. There was no immediate problem but at 5 o'clock after all was quiet again the swarm resumed their journey - across the road and into a cardboard box holding broken frames under my back verandah. They did not object to being shaken into a hive box again and settled promptly so I am not sure whether the cardboard box was their original destination and I interrupted their journey or whether they took an understandable dislike to the first location. I have had difficulty in getting swarms settled where I had to make three trips climbing a ladder to brush bees into a bucket and down to shake them into the box. Obviously the queen was still above since the bees were running out of the box faster than I could shake them in. I also never take a frame of fresh brood to settle a swarm. I keep nucleus hives with old brood comb around my apiaries to provide for my own swarms and generally only have to turn up to count the new tenants. I also attract feral swarms in this way, particularly around canola growing areas. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: hive population ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >It seems to me the original posting under this heading was asking for a way >to estimate a hive's population; we seem to have gotten off the subject. > >I, too, would like an answer to his question. I have three hives with widely >varying populations, and would like to know which is "normal". > Hive populations vary considerably according to effectiveness of foraging bees, nectar sources available, whether queen is laying full combs or skipping cells, quality of pollen sources and type of bee. Your management technique should be directed to having all hives at the same site working at maximum efficiency. If one hive has a higher population than the others, examination of the hives and comparison of the brood patterns is a good place to start. Hives with higher populations collect more honey. Some bees will swarm with only half a box of bees - these should be culled as unproductive. I expect to see hives at the same apiary within about 10% variation in bees and honey. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: noxious substances in honey In a message dated 97-07-14 06:12:27 EDT, you write: << It is advised to test the honey by first feeding it to a dog and observing its behaviour. >> Why feed it to a dog when there is such an abundance of grad students? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:33:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Laura Key Subject: Re: noxious substances in honey In-Reply-To: from "Peter Wilson" at Jul 10, 97 09:48:49 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > It is advised to test the honey by first feeding it to a dog and observing > its behaviour. > > Peter Wilson > Edmonton, Alberta > Canada > This is terrible advice! Whatever would possess someone to be so cruel to a helpless lifeform -that has no voice what what is done to it?? There are other ways to test your substance. Ex-husbands are perfect for testing of toxic substances...as are IRS agents, bad attorneys, corrupt polititians, and child molesters. Everyone knows that a dog is to be loved and worshiped. After all...spell "dog" backwards! :)))))) --Anima -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:03:14 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: moving bees In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970713215026.0069f7c4@istar.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Lots of talk about moving bees. First, I move bees regularly, and have > noticed few things... Me too. We've written lots here about this here and each time it's made me more observant of what we are doing, and I've realised that there is just no simple answer. The bees just do not read our books or this list :) They will tell you clearly what they can handle if you can read the signs. We move bees daytime, nightime. We move them winter, spring, summer and fall. We move them 1 foot or 100 miles -- and any distance in between. We seldom lose many bees, although sometimes some wind up drifting into other hives due to the mixup. I guess the best answer is you can try just about anything -- and it may or may not work depending on the bees, the time of year, the time of day, flow conditions, etc. The most important thing is to think ahead and consider what you may have to do if your move does not work out. Then move, watch for a while at both locations -- new and old. Decide if the bees are adjusting or hopelessly lost and that you might have to move the hive back or place a nuc there to catch the stragglers. It may take an hour or three for the bees to stop re-orienting. Just don't wait half a day or more and decide to move them back, 'cause you'll just double your trouble. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:43:45 -0700 Reply-To: vcoppla@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Wax Moth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce Hamilton wrote: I was away > for about 5 weeks and when I can back my only active hives were my > original ones. When I examined the empthy hives I notices wax moth > larve and some type of spider web material. My other 3 hives are quite well. > Question: Are newly established swarms more suseptable to the wax > moth? Hi Bruce, A normal colony will not be overcome by waxmoth, the bees will guard against them. When a colony fails for any reason the moths quickly move in. I have occasionaly seen moth damage in a hive while there are still bees but so few bees that they cannot defend the colony. These colonies are on the way out anyway, failing from an abnormal condition. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:19:12 -0700 Reply-To: vcoppla@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Feeding sugar syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Franklin Almond wrote: > > I have started two new hives which are Italians bees and the Queen is a > Buckfast queen. The queens are laying a good brood pattern. My question > is when I add another half gallon of sugar syrup, there is lots more > activity at the entrance of each hive. Seem like that robber bees are > coming in but there is no fighting at the entrances. Your bees are responding to a stimulus, the rush of sugar into the hive. The foragers interpret this as a honey flow and fly out to see where all this "nectar" is coming from. In a large apiary this can initiate robbing and the death of nucs or weak colonies, especialy when feeding during a dearth. In this situation it may be a good idea to reduce the entrance size of your smaller colonies. The bees respond this way even in cold weather. When feeding in the late fall, on days there is no flight, they start flying as soon as we start feeding. It always surpries me that some colonies start flying before we get to them. Could it be the smell of the syrup, or some kind of communication between colonies? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:25:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Apistan Last night I was at the Tampa Bay Beekeepers association and heard some concerns about Apistant strips. No one could understand what was happening so I said I'd ask the beeline and see if anyone else had similar problems. Problem: Beekeepers are putting in Apistan strips and finding that they are not working. After three weeks in the hive, ether rolls are stil indicating high mite infestations. Observations: The strips that are being put in seem different, stiffer, a darker color, less flexible. Trial solution: Take a hacksaw blade, draw it across the surface of the strips and reinsert them in the hive. This solution seemed to do the trick for, when ether rolls were done after reinsertion of these "rasped" strips the mite count was way down quite quickly. Word is that people don't want to question the efficacy of the strips lest the EPA get word that someting is amiss. The thinking is that people "don't want to talk about" this problem. something like we might lose the only treatment we have for the mites if it is discovered to be ineffective. This sounds a tad paranoid but I pass it along as one more piece of the puzzle. Anyone else had similar problems. I'm presently bee-less in Fla. since I commute to Virginia to take care of my bees there (a true "migratory" beekeeper!). I am also discovering what an amazine difference Florida beekeeping is from the way we Yankees do it. How about a year round honey flow? How about needing to extract four or five times a year? How about honey with flavors from palm trees, mangroves, punk trees, Brazilian pepper (sound hot and spicy to me). Citrus, of course, is the big honey flow here and that I've heard of, but cabbage palm? Sounds like it would either make a good salad or be good on one. Thanks for your input on the Apistan strip question. I promised I'd pass all thoughts along to the membership. Faith Andrews Bedford, Beekeeper, Tampa FL and Ivy VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:40:53 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: misery loves company Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve your >self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! Try >assessing the day without reference to the gender of the workers, please! > Geez you are sensitive. If you re-read the message you will note that I was most complimentary about these two. And they really are terrific. I left their gender to the end because it does not really have anything to do with the story. The observation was simply an attempt at humour and I suspect that most people will see it as just that. The two women do. As to my self esteem. Just check around and see how many women are employed in the field. In my operation the only difference between one worker and the other is their skills and perhaps their physical strength. I don't expect a 110 pound person (any sex) to handle the weight that a 200 pounder might handle. Our women work the bees and throw the boxes around as well as the men. The men clean the washroom and scrub the sink as well as the women. ...and this is as it should be. Both of these women are in the petite category and do a great job of anything they take on. Else I never would have sent them off to handle some chores in the yards. Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:41:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: misery loves company Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:30 AM 12/07/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-07-12 03:02:39 EDT, you write: > ><< > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Eunice Wonnacott wrote: > > > Eric: > > > > This "old timers" style of referring to women helpers may improve >your > > self esteem, but does little to raise you in anyone else's eyes! > > isn't that a rather "age-ist" comment? > >> >Perhaps there is an advantage to keeping hives in all deep boxes- the women >you get that can help will be manly women. > I must dissagree. The best women I have employed have all been very womanly. While they have been great workers they have not been large. I am struggling with how to say this without getting a bunch of hate mail but they are an attractive group of women - and they have been from age 16 to 50. While they wear mostly coveralls here I suspect they would attract a lot of male attention if they were on the beach. \ Eric Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:16:46 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Apistan Not Working in Florida In-Reply-To: <15125922112538@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Problem: Beekeepers are putting in Apistan strips and finding that they > are not working. After three weeks in the hive, ether rolls are stil > indicating high mite infestations. > > Observations: The strips that are being put in seem different, stiffer, > a darker color, less flexible. > > Trial solution: Take a hacksaw blade, draw it across the surface of the > strips and reinsert them in the hive. Sounds like a defective bunch of strips. This would be of great interest to the manufacturer. Be sure to get in touch with them right away. The address is on the package. Be sure not to be put off by a receptionist when you call. Make sure you speak to someone with auhtority since this problem, if verified, could have serious impact on their business and also on other beekeepers who only have a short period in which to treat. Allen. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:13:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Apistan problem in Tampa? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > From: Faith Andrews Bedford > Subject: Re: Apistan > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >... > Problem: Beekeepers are putting in Apistan strips and finding that > they are not working. After three weeks in the hive, ether rolls are > stil indicating high mite infestations. > I hope this doesn't bode fluvalinate resistant mites in Florida. Resistant strains of varroa has been the forewarned result of misuse of Apistan. Without casting unsubstantiated accusations at any one particular beekeeper, I have heard rumors that it is not uncommon to use Apistan in a manner not consistant with label instructions in the south eastern most state in the continental United States. (I hope I put that in the proper politically correct, non offensive to everyone in the world manner - Sheesh! it's become impossible to converse in these times!). > Observations: The strips that are being put in seem different, > stiffer, a darker color, less flexible. > Has the formulation changed? Comment requested from Sandoz (I know they aren't Sandoz anymore, but I forget their new name - Sheesh again!). Perhaps there was a bad batch that made it past quality control? Have the stips been stored properly? Has the expiration date passed? Correspondence with the vendor, including lot number of batch in question would seem appropriate. > Trial solution: Take a hacksaw blade, draw it across the surface of > the strips and reinsert them in the hive. > Modifications such as this seem to me to be similar to the attempts made to reuse strips by scratching their surface to "activate" more pyrethin. Such attempts were strongly condemned by the manufacturer. > This solution seemed to do the trick for, when ether rolls were done > after reinsertion of these "rasped" strips the mite count was way > down quite quickly. > However, such modifications may also be delivering other than the vendor intended amount of treatment to the bees, which may in turn hasten the day when Apistan resistance arrives. Use of the product contrary to label instructions voids all bets. > Word is that people don't want to question the efficacy of the strips > lest the EPA get word that someting is amiss. The thinking is that > people "don't want to talk about" this problem. something like we > might lose the only treatment we have for the mites if it is > discovered to be ineffective... > Not talking about a problem won't solve it or make it go away. It seems to me that this problem SHOULD be brought to the attention of people in a position to determine its cause. Incidently, posting the problem on this forum has let the cat out of the bag! I don't know that EPA needs to be brought in on this at this time, and methinks that too much money is being made to pull the only sanctioned treatment from the market, but minimally as a first step the vendor should be made aware that their product is not working as advertised, at least in the Tampa Bay area. > Anyone else had similar problems? .... Fortunately I have not, nor have I heard of anything similar from any members of the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association. I hope it's an isolated incident. However if this is yet another occurence of Apistan resistance (something we have been led to expect), it only ups the incentive to find alternatives. This is all the more reason to make this problem known rather than not talking about it. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:02:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "P. Aras et M. Boily" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Jul 1997 to 10 Jul 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > My ancient ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping refers to poisonous honey being used >... > It is advised to test the honey by first feeding it to a dog and observing > its behaviour. > > Peter Wilson > Edmonton, Alberta > Canada > What a thing to do to your dog! Take your best friend, who trusts > you, and feed it honey you suspect is unwholesome! Fie on Mr. Root! > > Susan > -- > > Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, > snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. If the dog survives, it will only mean that the dog survived. Having a different digestive system from us you cannot simply extrapolate the dog's survival to a "safe for humans" statement. Clinical test are much more complex than what you imply. But, to express my opinion, doing this to any animal should be outlawed as it was for experiments conducted, in a not very distant past, on prisonners or slaves of any origin. Philippe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:15:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Calkins, Rob" Subject: Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Last night I was looking at my hives and noticed what I thought were red spider mites on the outside of the hives. Are these red spider mites? Or do tracheal mites or Varrera Mites look like red spider mites? They ran fast when I went to kill them. How fast are TM or VM? The hives are strong and I just took out the Apistan Strips after seven weeks. Any thoughts or help will be appreciated. Thanks, Rob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:27:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Mites In-Reply-To: <20E1A7F01AA1D011BFD50060971BC267032C91@Watchdog.Wolfgang.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Last night I was looking at my hives and noticed what I thought were red > spider mites on the outside of the hives. > Are these red spider mites? Or do tracheal mites or Varrera Mites look > like red spider mites? They ran fast when I went to kill them. How fast > are TM or VM? The hives are strong and I just took out the Apistan > Strips after seven weeks. Any thoughts or help will be appreciated. Tracheal mites are too small to see. Varroa are not so spidery looking. They look more like ticks. They are flat, about the size of a pin head, and have eight legs (all on one side). They do not move quickly. Further, you're not likely to see them on the outside. Most of the time you don't see them at all, unless you have a whole lot of them, and then you might see them attached to the bees. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:46:33 -0700 Reply-To: dadant@dadant.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Avise Organization: Dadant & Sons Inc Subject: new web page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This will be a one time announcement. Dadant & Sons Inc has a web page. It can be found at http:\\www.dadant.com. We have covered several aspects of our company. We will be expanding the supplies and updating the ordering process in the future. We would like to welcome everyone to stop by and check it out. Thank you. Dadant & Sons Inc. -- Dadant & Sons Inc 51 South Second St Hamilton, Il 62341 Manufacturers and Suppliers of Beekeeping Equipment Publishers of American Bee Journal Manufacturers of Religious & Decorative Candles Phone 217-847-3324 Fax 217-847-3660 email Dadant@dadant.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:55:47 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: new web page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The slashes in the dadant web page were given as back slashes. Proper url is: http://www.dadant.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:06:53 -0700 Reply-To: dadant@dadant.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Avise Organization: Dadant & Sons Inc Subject: Re: new web page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, Thanks for the correction. I will give it another try. Best laid plans of mice and men. Teryr -- Dadant & Sons Inc 51 South Second St Hamilton, Il 62341 Manufacturers and Suppliers of Beekeeping Equipment Publishers of American Bee Journal Manufacturers of Religious & Decorative Candles Phone 217-847-3324 Fax 217-847-3660 email Dadant@dadant.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:08:54 -0700 Reply-To: dadant@dadant.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Terry Avise Organization: Dadant & Sons Inc Subject: new web page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Correction of url. The correct url for Dadant & Sons Inc web page is http://www.dadant.com. It is a long way from the mind to the fingers. Sorry for the typo. -- Dadant & Sons Inc 51 South Second St Hamilton, Il 62341 Manufacturers and Suppliers of Beekeeping Equipment Publishers of American Bee Journal Manufacturers of Religious & Decorative Candles Phone 217-847-3324 Fax 217-847-3660 email Dadant@dadant.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:27:53 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gunnar Thygesen Organization: Micro Computer User Group Subject: Command confirmation request (3C6D9B) From: gunnar@mcug.ping.dk (Gunnar Thygesen) TO:LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU ok --- Terminate 4.00/Pro -- |Fidonet: Gunnar Thygesen 2:235/15.32 |Internet: gunnar@mcug.ping.dk | | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:53:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: adony melathopoulos Subject: Re: Mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rob : At 11:15 AM 7/14/97 -0600, you wrote: >Last night I was looking at my hives and noticed what I thought were red >spider mites on the outside of the hives. >Are these red spider mites? Or do tracheal mites or Varrera Mites look >like red spider mites? They could be Varroa mites. Tracheal mites are too small to see without magnification and nearly transparent. Some generalist mites drift into colonies from the surrounding soil and feed on the bottom board litter. Your best bet is to take a sample and show it to your local extension apiarist. Being able to recognize Varroa is important for anyone keeping bees. >They ran fast when I went to kill them. How fast >are TM or VM? Varroa runs very fast, tracheal mites do not. >The hives are strong and I just took out the Apistan >Strips after seven weeks. Any thoughts or help will be appreciated. Varroa can drift into clean colonies on stray workers or drones from surrounding infested colonies. You should learn how to sample for Varroa from the extension apiarist in your area. Sampling will enable you to decide if you have Varroa, and if so, how high are the levels. Adony ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:19:26 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Faith Andrews Bedford wrote: Dear Friends. Any one having second thoughts about Faith's post should read the original file tht I posted at Bee-L again. Write to me if you want more details. Best regards Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:40:01 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Calkins, Rob wrote: Dear Rob: BTM are not readily seen without the help of magnifying instruments. Varroa mites are visible and quite agile while they are on the surface of the host bees. In all my experience with Varroa mites I have not observed them to demonstrate the type of activity that you describe. I have isolated and kept Varroa mites "in vitro" but they become lethargic soon and don't last very long. You did not state where you saw the mites, but I tend to think that they were not bee mites. On the other hand, that does not rule out the fact that you might have bee mites. Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:41:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Mites In-Reply-To: <199707141953.MAA29285@ferrari.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Varroa runs very fast, tracheal mites do not. Maybe my varroa are so full of bee essence that they can't run so fast. Seriously, I have not seen varroa run. They just sort of moved about. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:31:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Bogansky Subject: Bees, Bears, Good Family & Friends Comments: cc: BOGANSRJ After reading some of the posts where things don't quite go as planned I thought I would share this quick story. On July 2 I fell and broke my wrist/arm (first broken bone ever). A co-worker said to keep a list of all the strange that will happen. I laughed. In a cast past my elbow, lifting full supers is impossible. On Sat (5th) I mentioned to my wife Carol "Gee Honey, I really should check and add supers at "X" out yard. (It's a small yard, about 40 mi. away, and tends to get neglected.) She replied, feeling sorry for me, " I'll go with you and help out." I promised 10 minutes, max. A quick look, add supers, leave. Upon checking the first hive, the supers were full. I said "Gee Honey, if I were here alone I would pull this honey, but we can just put the empties on top." She looked at her watch and said "we have time, it would be foolish not to do it now." You can see who has the brains in this match and why I married her. (Actually, no one else would put up with me.) We pulled the supers and left. She did all the lifting. When we arrived home I had my son Jon (12) and daughter Sara (16) help me unload. They don't really like bee work, but they will help when I ask. With the supers inside and the kids about to leave I said, "Gee guys, these supers are nice and warm, it would really be a good time to extract." They looked at each other, smiled, then agreed to help. Sara did all the uncapping, by hand, and Jon filtered. He also bottled 100 lb. that was already in the tank. It started out that I was giving the directions, but by the time we were through they were ordering me around and finally told me I was just in the way. On Sunday (6th) my older daughter Jess said she would help us at the Farm Market because "dad wasn't too good with one hand". On the way home, she drove over a nail. First flat tire in years. (Her car has new tires.) On Tuesday night (8th) we in town, Jon had a ballgame. We were talking to the family that owns the farm 1/4 mi. up the road. They told us there was a bear on their front porch at 10:00 the night before eating the bird feeder. We are not suppose to have bears in our area. We got home from the park at 10 PM. You guessed it, the bear was paying us a visit. He was knocking over hives when we scared him off. He was a good size, 300 lb. Fortunately, he was at some splits I had made and had not gotten to the hives with honey. While my son held the flashlight, Carol and I stood them back up. The bear did not return that night. The next day I contacted the Game Commission, they were no help except to tell me not to hurt the bear. I decided to move the hives. This time I couldn't get any volunteers to help. Even Carol had this please-don't-ask-me-to-help look on her face. She has helped me move many hives in the past. At 6:00 PM I called a beekeeper friend. I told him what happened. He asked when did I want help. I said now. He laughed and said he would be over. He lives 20 miles away. We started to get the hives ready to move and a thunderstorm rolled in. We finally got them moved and had a good visit the rest of the evening. Sorry if I went on a bit, but this story shows the importance of a good family and friends. My broken arm is 12 days old. It has been exciting. On my way out the door to work this morning I noticed my wife had a flat tire. I can't wait to see what will happen next. I think God is testing my patience, for which I am failing, or he is showing He has a sense of humor. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:25:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Jul 1997 to 10 Jul 1997 >> What a thing to do to your dog! Take your best friend, who trusts >> you, and feed it honey you suspect is unwholesome! Fie on Mr. Root! >> >> Susan > >If the dog survives, it will only mean that the dog survived. Having a >different digestive system from us you cannot simply extrapolate the >dog's survival to a "safe for humans" statement. Clinical test are >much >more complex than what you imply. But, to express my opinion, doing >this >to any animal should be outlawed as it was for experiments conducted, >in >a not very distant past, on prisonners or slaves of any origin. > >Philippe > To reuse a recently overworked word -- Sheesh! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:39:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: bartlett Subject: Mineral oil use Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earlier I posted a problem about MO. I stated that it seemed to upset the bees. It was the last hive of 17 that I had to do and thought maybe I had used too much oil because the bees were running out of the hive and I had a hard time putting the supers back. It also was a hot afternoon and I thought the oil dirpersed too fast. This time I was very slow and deliberate. I tried a little oil at first and even put some in harms way for the bees. Some got into it pretty good. Others I saw stick their tongues into it. I didn't have any bees start running around. All went very well for the first 16 hives. Then I got to the hive that had acted so bad last time. I carefully put the oil on and watched. The bees in this hive went crazy on me again!!!!! My conclusion is that something else here is in play. I don't know what. The hive is in the shade and I was careful with the MO. Just an observation that may help somebody, billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 22:34:00 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Beverly Ellen Stanley Subject: Re: Moving beehives Dear Chester: I made the mistake of moving a hive a little too early in the evening, and not far enough away for them to forget where they came from. The next morning I had thousands of bees sitting on the bricks I had left at the spot where the hive first stood. That particular hive had an awful lot of bees in it anyway, so instead of moving the hive back to its original position, I took a frame of brood out, some capped, some new, with the nurse bees (since they all came from the same hive). Within a couple of days they had built queen cells. A couple weeks later, we had a queen. Now its six weeks later and the hive is doing well. It has many less bees than the original, but it's building very fast with loads of capped brood and one deep super and one shallow super full of honey above the brood and honey. I moved them a couple of days ago to a farm about four miles from here to give them an extra good chance of building up for the winter. I heard the farmer next door has a soybean field and grows flowers for sale. They bee in bee heaven, right? I took along another hive as well since we have three others left in our yard and I was afraid the neighbors would start complaining. Two have so many bees that they are sitting out on their front porches on this warm night. All of them came from one hive last year that swarmed three times. The daughters must have taken after the mother queen, because they all seem to fill up the supers extra fast and with the same patterns. I wish I knew more so that my young son (the real beekeeper - age 10), could do all the best for them, but our mistakes proved to be fruitful, and we learned a lotfrom them. Beverly ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:51:02 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Cliff Van Eaton Subject: Replacement Bee Book Needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I realise that this a long shot, but... Does anyone out there have (or know of) a copy of Crane, E (1975) Honey - A Comprehensive Survey. Heinemann, London.? A friend of mine has lost just about all his beekeeping literature (and over 2000 supers) in a honey house fire, and desperately wants to find a replacement copy of this book. Even though it is now over 20 years old, Honey - A Comprehensive Survey is considered an essential reference by most people who work in commercial honey processing. There really is no alternative I know of which comes even close. We are trying Amazon (the world's biggest virtual bookstore), and they in turn are probably trying the used book stores in England. However, I thought I'd try BEE-L, just on the off-chance that someone out there has a copy they'd like to sell. Please don't clutter up BEE-L with replies. E-mail me direct at: Many thanks.