========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 19:49:07 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Searching the Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT SEARCHING THE BEE-L ARCHIVE It is possible to search a number of mailing lists, including BEE-L at the following site: http://www.reference.com/ Unfortunately the list of BEE-L archived messages at this site go back no further than March 1997. However, the BEE-L listserv archive contains messages that go back to the very beginning when the OLd Drone was taking his first orientation flights and I thought hives was a skin complaint - 1989 I think. The listserv requires correct syntax in order to search the archives. I suggest that this message is saved and then the required example cut and pasted into a mail message. I usually find the listserv is quick to respond with a return message, generally less than 60 seconds but as they say 'your mileage may vary' according to traffic and your ISP. Send all messages to the listserv: LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Not the list! The following examples should work for any listserv, provided that it has the necessary software installed and that the examples are mmodified to refer to the list name. SEARCHING FOR MESSAGES THAT CONTAIN A SPECIFIC WORD The following example will return a list of the messages containing a particular word and then print each message. If you wish to just obtain a list of the messages omit the last line. To retrieve individual messages from the returned list - see the last example at the bottom of this message. Example -------------------------------------------------------- //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //Rules DD * SEARCH VARROA IN BEE-L INDEX PRINT ------------------------------------------------------------------- USING DATES Example -------------------------------------------------------- //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //Rules DD * SEARCH VARROA IN BEE-L SINCE 01-AUG-96 INDEX PRINT ------------------------------------------------------------------- The following date/time examples are valid- FROM 14 july TO oct 87. SINCE 86 UNTIL 23-JUN-87 SINCE today 11:30 SEARCHING BY SENDER In order to obtain a list of subscribers and their email addresses send a message to the listserv (address above) containing the line REVIEW BEE-L. This will return a list of the names and addresses of all the list subscribers. I have found that using the address from the left margin as far as the '@' sign will do the trick. Make sure to use the SaMe CaSe. Use brackets to enclose the name. The following example will return all messages in the archive sent by Allen Dick from that particular address. Example -------------------------------------------------------- //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //Rules DD * SEARCH * IN BEE-L WHERE SENDER CONTAINS (allend@internode.net) INDEX PRINT ------------------------------------------------------------------- BUT if you write a complex search that exceeds the length of one line it must be split up in such a way to let the Listserv know that the next line is a continuation of the previous. The way to do this is to finish the line with a space and a hyphen and start the new line with a space. Example -------------------------------------------------------- //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //Rules DD * SEARCH VARROA IN BEE-L - WHERE SENDER CONTAINS (allend@internode.net) - SINCE 01-AUG-1996 INDEX PRINT ------------------------------------------------------------------- SEARCHING FOR MESSAGES THAT CONTAIN PARTICULAR WORDS IN THE SUBJECT Example -------------------------------------------------------- //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //Rules DD * SEARCH * IN BEE-L - WHERE SUBJECT CONTAINS 'HONEYNUT CHEERIOS' - SINCE 01-OCT-91 INDEX PRINT ------------------------------------------------------------------- RETRIEVING INDIVIDUAL POSTS Example -------------------------------------------------------- //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //Rules DD * SEARCH * IN BEE-L PRINT xxxx, xxxx, xxxx (Where xxxx is the returned index number for the individual post) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Hemmens ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:56:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chip McCurdy Subject: Re: fledgling beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My father and I made it from scrap so there are no plans. Will see about getting some pix to send via e-mail. Give me a few days. (\ /) {III08< Chip >80III} (/ \) SEE OUR EXHIBIT AT THE GEORGIA NATIONAL FAIR IN PERRY, GEORGIA OCT. 3rd thru 12th 1997 ---------- > From: Elizabeth M. Bowles > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: fledgling beekeeper > Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 8:04 AM > > I saw your post to Joseph about the OH and am planning to make one. > Were did you get the plans for these hives, if I may ask? I need to build > one and cost is an issue. > I'd love to bring it to fairs also. > > In Him, > > Elizabeth M. Bowles > elizabeth@ctwok.com > Missouri, USA > > , > > > > I have 2 Observation hives which I use for an exhibit at the fair. I > built > > them for pennies. If you will send me your address, I'll send you some > > pictures of them. (\ /) > > {III08< Chip >80III} > > (/ \) > > > > SEE OUR EXHIBIT AT THE > > GEORGIA NATIONAL FAIR > > IN PERRY, GEORGIA > > OCT. 3rd thru 12th 1997 > > http://www.gnfa.com/fairindx.htm > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Joseph "Two Shadows" Keto > > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > > Subject: fledgling beekeeper > > > Date: Saturday, September 06, 1997 4:05 PM > > > > > > Greetings to all on this list. I hope to learn much here about bees & > > > beekeeping. I have wanted to start keeping bees for at least 15 years > > but > > > I now have an irresistable motivator. My wife who suffers from MS has > > > started Bee Venom Therapy (BVT). > > > > > > Some background and questions: > > > I live in the west central mountains of Idaho in a high > mountain > > valley > > > (5000 feet). The winters are looooooong and the snowpack averages 4 to > 5 > > > feet here. A local beekeeper with 20+ years experience here says > > > > > > wintering > > > your bees here is almost impossible. He further asserts that many > years, > > > there can be no harvestable honey. > > > Problem is; I want to winter my bees and harvest a modest > amount > > of > > > honey. Any advise would be much appreciated. Would like to correspond > > > with others who experience such conditions (email or snailmail). > > > Would also like advise on what type of bees, hive setups, > > equipment to > > > use. (I plan to start with 4 hives plus an observation hive. Would > > greatly > > > appreciate advise on setting up an indoor (observation?) hive to > > facilitate > > > obtaining of worker bees for BVT. > > > I am in a very tight financial situation just now and am > gleaning > > every > > > bit of free info possible. Later on I plan to buy a couple of good > > > reference books when I can. I have a need to inform myself as much as > > > possible now though because I am told that I must get in my orders for > > bee > > > packages and equipment as soon as possible. I am still in the process > of > > > searching the internet for info and any good URLs for a beginner would > be > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks for allowing me to post this barrage of questions. You > > must get > > > weary of breathless novices begging for advise. I will now sit back > and > > > listen and stay out of the way of the adults! :) > > > > > > > > > Mitakuye Oyasin > > > Joseph "Two Shadows" Keto ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:00:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: what to do with partially capped frames? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have 20 frames all together. Out of those I effectively have 2.5 > uncapped. Is that too high a percentage? I generally shoot for 80% capped in my dry climate, and I don't take it if it shakes out nectar regardless of the percentage. Looks like you're around 90%. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:37:20 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Newbies on BEE-L This is in addition to Allen's recent message about newbies and their basic type questions. I would suggest to you folks that are new to beekeeping, that in addition to previous suggestions-that you take some time exploring the wealth of information on the net at any of a growing number of web sites on Honey Bees. Actually, Nick's site in New Zealand is probably your best bet for a very comprehensive list of web sites. Some folks think Nick is a bit crazy, just kidding :-), but if you start with his Links and go exploring, we may not hear from you again for a couple of years :-) Seriously, check it out!! http://www.beekeeping.co.uk (I believe that is the right url) When you see something that catches your attention, then simply save the page while you are still on-line, and read it later at your liesure. Try it - you will be surprised at the great info available. Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:14:55 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" Subject: re-queening? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you have not followed this string let me fill you in. I think I may have killed my queen. :-( It was suggested that I take a look and see what's happening inside the hive a few days later and look for new eggs..... I looked today (this is 1 week after the incident). What I found was larva and capped brood in the brood chamber that the queen was (?) in and no queen cells. Now two chambers above in a shallow box meant for honey I found lots of large capped brood cells (mabey drones ?) and allot of larva and regular size capped brood. As for the middle box it was just being filled with honey and I found no evidence of brood there. My bees are Caucasian and usually very docile but today there were quite aggressive and I had to use smoke (something I rarely do). Soooo.......what's the verdict? do I get a new queen or what? Thanks for all your help, from a newbee. In Him, Elizabeth M. Bowles elizabeth@ctwok.com Missouri, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:06:02 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Thin honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit j h & e mcadam wrote: > > I overlooked the fact that freezing the honey will also kill the yeasts. As > the honey, the subject of this thread, has been frozen, heating to 160 > degrees Fahrenheit should not be necessary and the honey could now be stored > at room temperature. I would be dubious as to freezing "killing" yeast. As long as the honey is frozen there should be virtually no activity by yeast. But, yeast (at least some yeasts) will return to activity after returning to a warm temperature. My advice is to keep it frozen until it is to be used. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:29:59 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joseph \"Two Shadows\" Keto" Subject: Re: Bee VENOM THERAPY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isaac, Below is a URL for BVT info...there are some specific links there with regard to treating Arthritic and lower back conditions with BVT. http://www.beesting.com/mainpage.html Joseph ---------- > From: Isaac W. Williams Jr. > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Bee VENOM THERAPY > Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 10:55 AM > > BEE-L ,,,Is there any information on Bee venom therapy (BVT) for Arthridis > and lower ( Lumbar ) disc problems? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:57:36 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Les H Vaughn Subject: Buckeye trees? Seems like I remember somebody saying something about buckeye trees not being good for bees. What's the story here? I have a buckeye tree right in the middle of my bee yard. Should I be worried about this? Please advise. Les Vaughn leslist@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:17:58 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: list of Distributors... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi all, > > I was wandering where to find a list of distributors for bee-equipment out > there in the internet ? > > Regards > > Stefan Stepansky I know a lot of the bee equipment distributors, but I was recently considering asking the LIST who the members thought was the most reasonably priced for the more popular items like brood and super boxes, frames, etc. Since my brother and I are starting to expand, the difference in price is becoming more and more important. I'm looking for distributors either on or off the Internet. As long as they are in North America, I'd be interested. Maybe some price comparisons of some of these items would be a good idea? Thanks, Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 22:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: mineral oil and etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Bartlett wrote: Hello All. 1. Thanks Billy Bee. I appreciate your input. Testimonials like yours are very important because it will help to lend credence to my findings. Mineral oil does work as an acaricide. There are other beekeepers who have written and told me about their success with MO but you are the first one to do on Bee-L. Thanks buddy. 2.. Yes, MO does kill bees as well. You must remember that I explained that on my original post to Bee-L. The principle for its action is the same for bees and for mites. However, only those bees that do get too much oil on them will die. I do not want to see my bees die (from any cause) but if we must loose a few bees in getting rid of bee mites, I think that is a price that we might to pay. The alternative, is death of all the bees due to the effect of the mites. 3. Yes, vaseline works as well. I have recommended its use to some friends in Europe who can not get FGMO. I prefer FGMO (now called white MO) because it is approved by the United States government for use in food manufacturing, thus it is a tool that we can use all the time. Mineral oil has other advantages over other substances used against bee mites, however, I wont go into that. There is no need to do it. I have decided to let the test of TIME validate the merits of mineral oil. Good luck to all and happy beekeeping. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:13:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions In-Reply-To: <15063906109217@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, Allen Dick wrote: >partially insulated from the same old amateur Q & A, however the level of >discussion on BEE-L has now tended to decline to newbie level. Speaking as newbie, I think *everyone* asked the same old amateur questions when they were just starting. Maybe they have just forgotten that part as they gained experience. We newbies need the experienced folks to help us move up. >I guess we need a better way of querying the records and encourage >newbies to use the information before bringing up the same old question. But of course! If the information is hard to extract, it is pretty useless even if it exists. If we newbies keep asking the same old questions (old to y'all, not to us or we wouldn't be asking), that shows we don't or can't figure an easy way to extract info from the listserv archives. There is *lot* of stuff to sort through. >The body of previous posts is our FAQ. Unfortunately it is not web >searchable as a whole, and since it has been changed to weekly segments, >it has become far too difficult to use. That makes it even more difficult to avoid asking the same old questions repeatedly. >I do have a web page that is supposed to provide an interface for querying >the LISTSERV, however I have never put it to enough use to find out how >well it works, and haven't gotten any feedback on it. I wasn't even aware of it. I can't speak for the other newbies on the list. >Joe posted instructions for making queries and apparently has made >successful queries of the LISTSERV. I wonder who else has worked on this >and if we could incorporate such instructions into a periodic post or an >initial greeting message I missed Joe's posted. A periodic (monthly?) post would be most welcome. >Any ideas -- other than making the queries in the obscure and >non-intuitive language of the LISTSERV? I think Aaron was saying that >there is a web interface available, but he hasn't had time to figure it >out. How about a FAQ? Yes, the body of previous posts may be BEE-L's FAQ, but they are scattered all over the place and difficult to find. They would be more useful if collected in one file. The more experienced folks could contribute answers to the 'same old questions'. The FAQ can include instructions on how to get more detailed information from archives. If posted monthly, it should greatly cut down the number of newbie questions. Well--we can hope. :-) What do y'all think? bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: bob-bee@pobox.com first year beekeeper, 2 colonies kc2wz@intercall.net (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: Resistance is futile ... -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:07:44 -0700 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Straws MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GETPOST BEE-L 1354 1403 15173 15264 15269 15524 18103 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 00:37:12 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Buckeye trees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CALIFORNIA buckeye is the culprit. The big "horse chestnut" trees that most people think of are different, and apparently not a problem. California buckeye is a major pain if you're in the parts of California that have it. The nectar deforms or kills brood (symptoms are a little bit like the deformity from heavy varroa infestation) and a tell-tale sign is piles of dead bees in front of the hive that look bleached out or faded, many with deformities. I lost a couple of colonies to CB for the first time this year. I've seen increasing signs of it for the two preceding years but thought it was mites. I've heard, but don't know if it's true, that the pollen is also toxic and that it can cause a secondary winter kill. The idea is that the colony stores CB pollen in season, then covers it over with other pollen later. Then in winter or early spring, they uncover and use the CB pollen and another generation of brood is affected. I have noticed that only certain colonies are affected by CB. I suppose it has to do with different forage patterns for different hives. Only 3 out of 20 of my colonies at the affected yard seem to have been noticeably affected by the buckeye problem. Two of them died. The only solution I know of is to move the bees during buckeye bloom. > Seems like I remember somebody saying something about buckeye trees not > being good for bees. What's the story here? I have a buckeye tree right > in the middle of my bee yard. Should I be worried about this? > Please advise. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:01:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: The Bankses Subject: Re: Mineral Oil treatment files Comments: To: ajwelk@ibm.net I have been reading all of your info on the m.o. treatment, and am very interested in your files. I would be interested in having them sent to me. Wahkon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: The Bankses Subject: Re: bee fables - what a HOOT!!!! Re: PS1 - - I actually roared out loud when I read that one! Love your sense of humor, Hugo. Wahkon On Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:58:37 +0100 "THONE HUGO VE144 (240)9452" writes: >I suggest to close this topic and to discuss bee >matters. > >PS1 for Susan Nielsen : >Would you like to suck my fingers and toes ...... >;-) > >PS2 for all others : >Please accept my apologies if you feel offended by >postscriptum 1. > >+++++ > >Hugo Thone (SE144) (\ > {|||8- >ALCATEL TELECOM (/ >F.Wellesplein 1 >B-2018 Antwerp do bee do bee do .... > >email : thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be >phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 >fax : (32) 3 240 99 50 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:05:45 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: re-queening? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, We still need to know if you have eggs in either patch of brood. There is a sort of mystery going on about why there are two seperate brood areas, but the really big question is whether or not any of the brood is brand new. Based on what you've said I think you probably should re-queen but you must first determine whether or not there is a queen present. And you need to work quickly to avoid laying workers. (there's a good article on laying workers in the Sept. ABJ) By the way, I work with a lot of new beekeepers and have found that many have difficulty finding eggs. If you aren't sure what to look for you might miss them. If you use reading glasses you'll need them to see the eggs. Strong sunlight shining into the bottom of the cells is helpful, but be careful since too much direct sunlight kills brood. Eggs are very tiny, and almost invisible in light colored comb such as a new honey super. Once you find eggs, we also need to know how they are positioned in the cells. Are they layed one to a cell (an occasional double is ok) and standing on end at the bottom of the cell, or are there several in a single cell, sometimes laying down or stuck to the sides rather than the bottom of the cell? Michael ---------- > In case you have not followed this string let me fill you in. I think I > may have killed my queen. :-( It was suggested that I take a look and see > what's happening inside the hive a few days later and look for new > eggs..... > > I looked today (this is 1 week after the incident). What I found was larva > and capped brood in the brood chamber that the queen was (?) in and no > queen cells. Now two chambers above in a shallow box meant for honey I > found lots of large capped brood cells (mabey drones ?) and allot of larva > and regular size capped brood. As for the middle box it was just being > filled with honey and I found no evidence of brood there. > > My bees are Caucasian and usually very docile but today there were quite > aggressive and I had to use smoke (something I rarely do). > > Soooo.......what's the verdict? do I get a new queen or what? > > Thanks for all your help, from a newbee. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 01:25:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Oldtimers need "newbee" questions! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm occasionally a little frustrated by seeing a question come up that I, or some other list contributor answered in detail only a month or two before, but that's ok with me. I'm just happy to have all these new beekeepers getting involved. I'll put up with a lot of redundency just to make sure these people have a place to go for help. One subject that hasn't come up much in recent months is the steady decline in the number of beekeepers in recent years. It was a big topic a while back, and quite honestly, it's a topic I'd prefer to leave behind in favor of "newbee" questions. If you complained about the decline of beekeeping then, I hope you aren't complaining about this opportunity to do something about it! Maybe someone with a programmer's bent and time on their hands will come up with a better way to retreive archived info, but until then, we need to hang in there and not slam the door on new beekeepers. After 16 years I'm still full of questions, some of which aren't all that sophisticated, and I bet you are too. Michael Reddell mwr@hotcity.com http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:47:14 BST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: QUB Subject: Re: Q banks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Kerry, Your post confirms the effect that I have been experiencing. Since I began this debate it appears that others have found this too. Do you know if Wyborn, M. had any further publications from his/her M.Sc. thesis. I have searched BIDS literature bank with no joy > M. Wyborn. 1991. Mass Storage of Honey Bee Queens During the Winter. > M.Sc. Thesis Simon Fraser University. Burnaby, B.C. 121 p. encountered > the problem of sequential addition of queens to a queen bank. I don't > immediately see the discussion, but as I recall, queens in the same > laying condition could be accepted by a bank, but when any subsequent > "fresher" queens were added, most of the previous batch of queens would > die within a few days. > > The best results (60 % survival after 6 months, with subsequent summer > performance the same as for queens wintered in 5 frame nucs) obtained > were from outdoor bank colonies prepared from strong 2 queen colonies (3 > std boxes in Sept, reduced to 2 in October), queens removed 24 hr before > adding bank frames with up to 48 queens in cages 2.5 mm mesh without > attendants. All Q cells removed 1 week after introducing bank frames. > > > Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist > B.C. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food > 1201 103 Ave > Dawson Creek B.C. > V1G 4J2 CANADA Tel (250) 784-2231 fax (250) 784-2299 > INTERNET kclark@galaxy.gov.bc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:52:13 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Excluder over winter(?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In one of his recent beekeeping books, Ron Brown (of Devon) recommends >overwintering in one brood box plus a full honey super, with *excluder* >between. This way no brood ever ends up in the food super, maintaining >clean combs, and the bees have a good portion of honey situated directly >above them where it is most useful. > >Now, it is more commonly stated that excluders should *not* be left in >position during winter, as the queen could become isolated below, and then >the colony would lose her as the cluster moved upward. We leave our excluders permanently in place. The mild climate of Kangaroo Island ensures that there are only a few days over winter when the bees will not be able to fly for at least 30 minutes each day. Daily maximum temperatures during winter go from 12 degrees Celsius to 15 degrees Celsius. Winter maintenance is carried out in August (last month of winter) when the brood box is checked for brood and stores and foundation or good brood frames exchanged for full honey frames in brood box. We find bees remain in brood box the entire winter. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Excluder over winter(?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel: In the climate where I am, our winter temperatures are frequently very low for extended periods of time. It would seem that there would be a possibility of bees being unable to reach food before freezing, since they must cluster around the queen to keep her warm and would have to leave the cluster for food if there were an excluder present. I imagine a situation where the food is all gone below the excluder, and she can not follow the workers to the food. The main purpose of food supply over winter is for survival, so why take the chance? Eunice "From The Cradle of Confederation" ---------- > From: Joel Govostes > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Excluder over winter(?) > Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 10:25 AM > > In one of his recent beekeeping books, Ron Brown (of Devon) recommends > overwintering in one brood box plus a full honey super, with *excluder* > between. This way no brood ever ends up in the food super, maintaining > clean combs, and the bees have a good portion of honey situated directly > above them where it is most useful. > > Now, it is more commonly stated that excluders should *not* be left in > position during winter, as the queen could become isolated below, and then > the colony would lose her as the cluster moved upward. > > Have any BEE-L'ers out there overwintered in such fashion, intentionally or > by accident? Ever actually had queens deserted below an excluder in this > way? > > Just never have heard any actual accounts of this happening. It would seem > that any cluster worth overwintering would likely extend from the food > super down through the excluder and into the brood chamber, so the queen > would not be "left behind." > > Any comments appreciated > > Over and out > > jg ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 21:23:16 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An early experience, about 20 years ago. I had only a couple colonies, set up near a small woodlot. Late in October, I had taken off honey, and when I returned about a week later to feed for the winter , I discovered that my neighbor's cattle had been wandering around, and had upset the one colony. Supers were upside down, and separated. It had snowed, and there was about 8 inches of snow all over everything. My instinct to tidy up went into play;, and I "righted" the supers, to find the cluster and lots of bees below the snow. I brushed away as much snow as I could, and was delighted to find them still alive a week later. This is the first colony that lived over the winter for me. Seems to prove that they are tougher than we think. Or that ventilation is more important than anything else!! I have always had to drive at least 20 miles to tend the bees, so visits were not as frequent as possible for others. Eunice W "From The Cradle of Confederation" ---------- > From: Wiz Dumb > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: . > Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 4:58 AM > > Hi all, > Thanks to all for your posts... very helpful > I was reading the recent flames and thought why not use that energy in a > positive way. > I came across the idea as I was listening to a beginning beekeeper tell > me how he had obtained a swarm and hived it. He did not look inside the > box as thru the winter as he thought it was to cold and simply fed the > bees with sugar water. One day he noticed that the bee activity was not > what he considered normal after having refilled the boardman feeder. He > had been refilling the feeder for a month now. He opened the hive and all > the bees were dead. As he was looking at them a little bewildered as to > how they could be dead when he had faithfully been filling the feeder a > bees flew in and went straight to the feeder and helped itself and flew > off. In a few minutes there was about 5 or 6 bees coming to the feeder. > They emptied the feeder in a day he realized he had been feeding somebody > elses bees or a feral colony some where. > I thought it was pretty funny. > How about sharing some of them novice mistakes we all make as or made as > beginners. > Hope my post is well received > Thanks to all for your posts > David ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:01:51 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Extractor questions? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett D Bannon wrote: > > I am thinking of purchasing a new extractor. Hoping others on this list > have already reached the conclusions of what makes a good extractor. > Radial or Tangential or both? Reversible or non-reversible? Hand crank > or motor drive? Is a lid necessary? Need a good quality product for my > money! Plan on extracting from 10 to 50 hives. So then from which honey > supply house should I make my purchase. > With that number of hives, you should not even consider tangential machines. Radial is the only way to go. I would think you should have one that handles 32 or 40 frames. I picked up a 20 frame extractor years ago, then realized that it was rated for 20 full depth frames. Since I use only medium or shallow frames, I have always placed another 20 between the first ones on the designated racks, so making it in effect a 40 frame extractor. Even if I occasionally put full depth frames into it, I can still interdigitate with the mediums and get the maximum usefulness from it. Also - don't even consider hand cranking. I used to do that as a teenager (we used a 4 frame tangential then), which was probably a good use for all my excess energy in those days. I can't even imagine how much work it would be to hand crank a 40 framer!! Yes, a lid is necessary. You don't want junk falling into the extractor, and even if you would never do such a foolish think as sticking your hand into a moving machine, you may get visitors who might. And you don't need any unnecessary lawsuits over such a thing. I have no advice on supply companies. Mine is a Dadant, which has always given me the best of service for 19 years, but I haven't heard of any major manufacturers which give problems. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:22:52 +0200 Reply-To: ljstanis@bigfoot.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ljubisa Stanisavljevic Organization: Faculty of Biology Subject: Set Bee-L NOMAIL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------AB07C8E15DFB96B2CA46F7A1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AB07C8E15DFB96B2CA46F7A1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Set Bee-L NOMAIL --------------AB07C8E15DFB96B2CA46F7A1 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ljubisa Stanisavljevic Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Ljubisa Stanisavljevic n: Stanisavljevic;Ljubisa org: Institute of Zology, Faculty of Biology, University of Belgrade adr: Studentski trg 16;;;Belgrade, 11000;Serbia;+381;Yugoslavia email;internet: ljstanis@bf.bio.bg.ac.yu title: MSc tel;work: +381 11 187 823 tel;fax: +381 11 638 500 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------AB07C8E15DFB96B2CA46F7A1-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:39:41 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Your favorite queen breeder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mike was looking for favorite queen breeder of Italian queens. I second the recommendation for Rossman Apiaries where they breed exclusively Italian queens. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:47:29 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Varroa Mites, Wasps, Hornets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't see any varroa throughout the summer. However, now it is beginning to show up again, although not in great numbers. I treated all my hives with Apistan, and don't want to try leaving any untreated to be a varroa reservoir. I'd love to try the mineral oil treatment, but am holding off a little bit until I see more results (positive or negative). Jerry - what are the bee researchers doing re mineral oil? I don't see any publishing on this as yet. Is it being ignored or haven't the data come in yet? Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:18:40 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Buckeye trees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Reddell wrote: > > CALIFORNIA buckeye is the culprit. The big "horse chestnut" trees that > most people think of are different, and apparently not a problem. > The only solution I know of is to move the bees during buckeye bloom. Excellent advice. Can only add that ABCand XYZ of Beekeeping also suggests feeding sugar syrup and bee collected pollen from other plants when the buckeyes are in bloom to dilute the buckeye nectar and pollen- if you cannot move the hive. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:51:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: tough little buggers I had a starter package I installed early April, just before temperature dropped to low 20's. It stayed cold for a couple days. I had a boardman feeder on the front but the bees clustered up & away from it & died. I came back 3 days later & they were all dead. I dumped them all out on the ground and disassembled the hive. The queen cage (which still had 3-4 dead workers in it) I took home & put on the kitchen counter. A couple hours later my 8-year-old daughter noticed that they were alive!. I figured it must have been from the candy cork in there. Just for kicks, I jumped in the car with my daughter and went back to the site. We scooped up as many of the dead bees as we could find (maybe half the 3-pound package) and dumped them back in the shipping container. I took them home and doused them with sugar syrup. Sure enough, within a few hours a few hundred of them were walking around in there. I dumped the in front of another starter hive in hopes that some of them were still alive. I just wish I'd thought to douse them the first night in the hive -- maybe they all would have made it. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:59:53 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Your favorite queen breeder In-Reply-To: <199709052205.PAA09476@hotcity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 Sep 97 at 15:08, Michael Reddell wrote: > I'm in the market for about 20 fall queens and want to find a high > quality source. I'm looking for strong, well-bred Italians that are > positively selected for housekeeping and gentleness traits. That > means the breeder has a system in place to select for these traits > in his or her breeding stock. It also means that the breeding > guess I'm also interested in reports on how a particular breeder > backs up his product. It used to be that people were told 'go West, young man' now the expression is 'go North'. Try one on the Ontario breeders, not necessarily us. There is no possibility of African genes getting into our stock, leading to less agression. As far as I know we have the only official T-mite resistance testing program around, plus an organisation dedicated to improving bee stock on a province (State) wide basis. ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Phone 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:19:42 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: Buckeye trees? Comments: To: mister-t@clinic.net In-Reply-To: <34144180.3FAF@clinic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:18 AM 9/8/97 -0700, Bill Truesdell wrote: >Michael Reddell wrote: >> >> CALIFORNIA buckeye is the culprit. The big "horse chestnut" trees that >> most people think of are different, and apparently not a problem. > >> The only solution I know of is to move the bees during buckeye bloom. > >Excellent advice. Can only add that ABCand XYZ of Beekeeping also >suggests feeding sugar syrup and bee collected pollen from other plants >when the buckeyes are in bloom to dilute the buckeye nectar and pollen- >if you cannot move the hive. Its the nectar of the California Buckeye that kills the bees. When it is really bad, (when the trees are bothered by aphids and/or other pests), you can find dead bees on the ground under the trees, and on the blossoms themselves. The Buckeye bees hatch out with deformed wings in extreme cases after an initial kill of young bees that pile up in front of the hives. The bees will eat the hair off of the effected bees making them look shinny. The queens are also damaged and buckeye hives are hard to repair with added bees or brood, or a new queen as long as the nectar is in the hive. Preventing 100% of the pollen from entering the hive does not help and this pollen when fed to other bees does not seem to affect them. Feeding sugar syrup at the time of bloom does work mostly in the coastal areas as the trees seem to effect the bees less there and in some years on favored locations pure Buckeye Honey can be extracted. Its is white in color and granulates in the comb if left until the Sage flow. In the Sierra foothills the Buckeye seems to always be bad on the bees and moving away from it is the best plan. At one time a old time bee breeder had a line of bees that were not affected by Buckeye. I don't know if anyone continues with them today, they were naturally dark gentle bees and very productive. California Buckeye trees are very hardy and hard to kill. Beekeepers and cattlemen have carried out several eradication attacks on them without much success in the past. The cattlemen were interested because of a condition they call "Buckeye calves", the cows abort late term or the calves are deformed because they are believed to have eaten from the fruit of the Buckeye tree. The California Buckeye tree makes a nice yard tree and if irrigated will keep its leaves longer then in the wild where they are dropped soon after blooming unless it is a very wet year or they are growing with their roots in water. ttul, the OLd Drone ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:27:21 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbar )" Subject: Good Beekeeping Info for New Beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/31535 Beekeeping left* <Beekeeping Information Resources * <Beekeeping: Florida Bee Botany * <A Study in Profitability for a Mid-Sized Beekeeping Operation * <Diseases and Pests of the Honey Bee * <Beekeeping: Watermelon Pollination * <Pollination of Citrus by Honey Bees * <Florida Bears And Beekeeping * <Florida Honey Labelling Regulations * <Extension Apicultural Visual Aids * <Information On The African Honey Bee * <Good Neighbor Guidelines And Ordinances * <Chalkbrood Recommendations * <The Varroa Bee Mite * <Wax Moth Control * <Infant Botulism and Honey * <Removing Honey Bee Nests * <A Florida Beekeeping Almanac * <Protecting Honey Bees From Pesticides * <Honey and Its Uses * <Honey Adulteration * <Honey House Sanitation and the Florida Food Law * <Solar Beeswax Rendering and Hints * <Producing Pollen * <Bee Stings and "Allergic" Reactions * <Producing Section (Comb) Honey * <Sample Pollination Agreement * <How to Exhibit Honey * <Florida Bee Inspection ---------- ---------- go to higher level menu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:45:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664@compuserve.com> Subject: Rest of LISTSERV output? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you Donald Aitken for the instructions on how to use the SEARCH command on the LISTSERV. How can I get the rest of items of a search if = it only the first 100 matches, (unfortunately the most dated?) For example: Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:29:46 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" = Subject: Output of your job "71762.1664" To: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664@COMPUSERVE.COM> > SEARCH BEE-L Formic Acid -> 223 matches (only the first 100 will be shown). How can I get the subsequent 123 matches, which will be newer information= ? Thanx in advance for anyone's help, **************************************************************** * I believe that the phenomena of nature * * is the expression of infinite intelligence. * * I express my belief that all forms of life * * are manifestations of spirit * * and thus, we are all children of God, Peace * **************************************************************** * Rory Stenerson _ * * Member - Centre County Beekeepers Association _( )_ ^ * * V.P. - State College Underground Maltsters ( - ) * * State College, PA U.S.A. ^ ( - ^ ) ^ * * E-mail: 71762.1664@compuserve.com ( - - ) * * ( - +++ ) * **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:47:09 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Arnold Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Allen wrote: "I notice that we are going over the same very basic material again and again. These matters have been beaten to death repeatedly on BEE-L and are well answered in the archives." This does not make me, as a newbie myself, feel at all welcome here. I doubt that your intent was to alienate us, but I also doubt that I am alone in feeling that way. -Steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:41:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joseph \"Two Shadows\" Keto" Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, Yup! Joseph ---------- > From: Steve Arnold > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 10:47 AM > > Allen wrote: > "I notice that we are going over the same very basic material again and > again. These matters have been beaten to death repeatedly on BEE-L and > are well answered in the archives." > > This does not make me, as a newbie myself, feel at all welcome here. I > doubt that your intent was to alienate us, but I also doubt that I am alone > in feeling that way. > -Steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:44:08 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions In a message dated 97-09-08 12:49:28 EDT, you write: << Allen wrote: "I notice that we are going over the same very basic material again and again. These matters have been beaten to death repeatedly on BEE-L and are well answered in the archives." This does not make me, as a newbie myself, feel at all welcome here. I doubt that your intent was to alienate us, but I also doubt that I am alone in feeling that way. -Steve >> Guess what - you are entitled to feel anyway you wish it is beyond my control. This list was originally for the researchers to discuss beekeeping science and we hobbiests drove them away to their own private group somewhere in cyberspace. There is a new word in the oxford english dictionary called "aliterate" and it refers to people educated well enough to read but too lazy to do so. Perhaps when we ask a newbee question we should also refer to which books we have been looking in or which websites we have accessed for information. My .02 worth 25 nice healthy colonies finding a day fooling with the bees beats work hands down. BTW saw a worker with thread wings in an otherwise healthy colony sent me into varroa paranoia but saw no evidence of them on drone brood. Are the thread wings naturally occuring every now and again ? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:53:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chip McCurdy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for more info on Bayvoral. Anybody? (\ /) {III08< Chip >80III} (/ \) SEE OUR EXHIBIT AT THE GEORGIA NATIONAL FAIR IN PERRY, GEORGIA OCT. 3rd thru 12th 1997 For More Information: ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 13:16:49 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Arnold Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thomas Cornick wrote: "Guess what - you are entitled to feel anyway you wish it is beyond my control. This list was originally for the researchers to discuss beekeeping science and we hobbiests drove them away to their own private group somewhere in cyberspace. There is a new word in the oxford english dictionary called "aliterate" and it refers to people educated well enough to read but too lazy to do so. Perhaps when we ask a newbee question we should also refer to which books we have been looking in or which websites we have accessed for information. My .02 worth 25 nice healthy colonies finding a day fooling with the bees beats work hands down." My reply: I am amazed at the level of hostility on this list. Hawaii, off-color jokes, etc. Wow. Thomas, you are certainly entitled to put your two cents in. My two cents are that you are an ass. 'Nuff said. -Steve "<< Allen wrote: "I notice that we are going over the same very basic material again and again. These matters have been beaten to death repeatedly on BEE-L and are well answered in the archives." This does not make me, as a newbie myself, feel at all welcome here. I doubt that your intent was to alienate us, but I also doubt that I am alone in feeling that way. -Steve >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:53:13 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Joseph \"Two Shadows\" Keto" Subject: Fw: your .02 worth Comments: To: BEE-L list address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Joseph "Two Shadows" Keto > To: beecrofter@aol.com > Subject: your .02 worth > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 12:49 PM > > Mr. Cornick, > In regard to your comment to Steve: > > >Guess what - you are entitled to feel anyway you wish it is beyond my > control > > > I'm sure nobody wants or needs your "entitlement" , nor does anybody think > its within your control or would want it to be. > > You set much too high a value on your comment ($.02). I'll always remember > to delete your posts in the future without another thought. > > Are all of the wise asses on AOL.? It must be some kind of rule. > > Joseph Two Shadows ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:56:11 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I think that people get much more brave on the Internet than in person. Its the same with driving. If you accidentally cut someone off on the road, you usually get the finger as well as a long line of cuss words. However If you accidentally cut off someone with a shopping cart, the "victim" is usually much more forgiving and gracious. It is easy to be tough from a distance. I feel sorry that some on the list are irritated by the new bee keepers. However, I feel that both may be to blame. New bee keepers should do some research before posting simple questions, but as a newbie myself I found you can read many books and some times your questions are just not answered. It is in these situations that a experienced person can be a very valuable resource. To the ol' timers on the list: Thank you to those of you who are willing to help out us who are new to bee keeping. If you are irritated by the simple questions, delete them and move on (or join best of BEE-L). I see no reason for hostility. Personally I have found many people on the list who are willing to go out of their way, and not only answer my questions but add other helpful tips. I for one am very appreciative of these folks and find this list to be a great resource of knowledge. Sorry to ramble, but cant we all learn to play nice? Rett Thorpe Salt Lake City I really hope that this post does not stir up another huge discussion ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:04:14 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: newbie Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everyone of us ought to remember being a newby. I never met a person that was born bee smart, or anyone who didn't have a bunch of dumb things happen that we laugh about today. (or maybe we don't tell because we don't want anyone to think that we were so dumb) It is a wonder that to me so many people who have computers are also doing beekeeping. They don't seem to go together. Let the newbies ask all the questions they want. Yeah, you can mention that there is a FAQ thing. I just hope that there are enough people out there to answer the questions. Those kind of people who get a kick out of helping others and sharing information. Some of those newbies WILL be the ones helping newbies in the years to come. Too old too fast ------- too smart too late! billy bee 25 years with the bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:15:53 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WOW now before we get some kind of cyber space hate group started why don' t we talk about some solutions.Why doesn't some one develope a standard newbie response reply to be sent directly to the newbie to explain the ground rules about the bee-l list. Also a response could give simple instrutions on how to use the different FAQ search locations about bee questions.Included might be a list of books and where they are available, company names , addresses, phone numbers etc. Lets bee friendly to the newbies as we sure need all the new beekeepers that we can get. Then we can get on with the important stuff like if we should suck or not suck toes and tell about it. I mean really what important stuff or we not talking about. The newbies just have to be dealt with in a nurturing way. You old timers nearly ran me away when I first got on the list and you all know from my posting how sad you would have been. Another idea is that we all join best of bee-l and every body quit bee-l and let the whole process come to a halt.If no posting were made on bee-l then best of bee-l would not have anything edit and censor for publication. Walla no list at all. Bad idea how would we ever get to hear from the oldies when they do speak out with thier invaluable experiences. Well I have to get back to work. We have extracted the Ohia-Lehua honey and are now moving to the Christmas berry. The weather is great and the flows go on and on.If traveling to Hawaii and a newbie or oldie give us a call . Aloha Walter PS Andy please don't stop WRITTIN. Walter & Elisabeth Patton hihoney@ilhawaii.net 808-964-5401 Hale Lamalani { House of Heavenly Light } {Hawaii Std. Time} Bed & Breakfast www.alohamall.com/hamakua/lamalani.htm Hawaiian Honey House { Beekeepers & Honey Packers } 100 % HAWAII HONEY www.alohamall.com/hamakua/hihoney.htm 27-703 A. Ka`ie`ie Rd., Papa`ikou, Hawaii 96781 " ALOHA ALL " " The Beehive, the Fountain of Youth and Health " ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: newbees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember when I first started to keep bees. Maybe a couple years into it. I opened a hive and found a bunch cobb webs. Bees running all over, no queen, and no honey or brood. I still remember how scared I was. I just didn't understand what was going on. I called a fellow who I knew from the bee club who was an ol'timer. I guess he detected how I was and said he would drive over ( 18 miles). He explained it all to me. He is gone now and I miss him! billy bee I seem to philosophize alot on this site ---- sorry, Just feel more compelled to do it then to answer questions. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 15:54:30 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the Newsgroups I subscribe to post their FAQ's monthly. We might not want to post the extensive FAQ because it would generate the standard "bandwith" complaint, but could be a short "welcome" with many links, with the first to the Bee-L FAQ and the second to Alan's site with its BeeL archives. I note that many of you direct questions to links. It is a good technique. I appreciate it and usually go for a visit. My initial problem with the Bee-L was not in asking neewby questions. Even if I asked a complex question, I had no idea how to find out if it had already been thoroughly discussed because I was internet and listserv ignorant. I hate to tell you how long it took me to master NOMAIL, when I left on vacation. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Walter Patton wrote: > > WOW now before we get some kind of cyber space hate group started > why don' t we talk about some solutions.Why doesn't some one develope > a standard newbie response reply to be sent directly to the newbie to > explain > the ground rules about the bee-l list. Also a response could give simple > instrutions > on how to use the different FAQ search locations about bee > questions.Included > might be a list of books and where they are available, company names , > addresses, phone numbers etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:46:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Newbies,etc. And this too shall pass ... patience! We have seen worse in the past and have survived relatively intact and generally still on speaking terms. Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:07:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: newbee questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is no such thing as a dumb question ---- Only dumb answers!!! billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:00:02 -0500 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: apimondia pictures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit more apimondia pictures on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 20:18:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Info I received the following message. Could someone in Michigan thereabouts help these folks out. ---------- >From - Sun Sep 07 20:03:12 1997 Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by xensei2.xensei.com (8.8.3/4.22.97) with ESMTP id RAA31227 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:55 -0400 From: Goofy12345@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA29342 for alwine@xensei.com; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970908173707_-433501816@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: alwine@xensei.com Subject: Could you help me out?? Status: O X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Content-Length: 633 My uncle owns a boathouse around where I live in Michigan, and just recently...he found an unusual type of bee swarming around a tree nearby. Could you help us find out what type of bee it is? It would help us out a lot. Here is what I was told it looked like: a little bit larger than a yellowjacket either dark black or dark brown colored body & (i don't know the proper termilogy on bees, so im going to have to pinch hit) it had a white spot on its head and another one on its tail If you could help us out, we would really appreciate it, if not thank you for your time anyway. Sincerely, Goofy12345 --------------------- Thanks, Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA Cerberus - Three Sites In One Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:13:46 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Marking queens... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've just scanned an article I wrote some years ago for the NZ Beekeeper describing the marking of queens. If you're interested you can find the page reference from the address in my .sig file. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:36:03 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" Subject: Re: re-queening? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the help, now I know for sure what I'm looking for. As to the mystery of why two different location.......well. I had my shallow box in the middle of my two deeps to promote comb drawing in that area. At that time the queen was laying in the top, workers storing honey in bottom. I moved the box with the queen it it to the bottom the other deep on top of that then the shallow one on top of both. I figured when the time comes to get ready for winter I could just take off the shallow and bee done with it. It is this shallow that I'm finding these enlarged cells, (not peanuts shaped) just larger and longer. Thanks again, I'll check the egg situation in the am. Elizabeth > We still need to know if you have eggs in either patch of brood. There is > a sort of mystery going on about why there are two seperate brood areas, > but the really big question is whether or not any of the brood is brand > new. Based on what you've said I think you probably should re-queen but > you must first determine whether or not there is a queen present. And you > need to work quickly to avoid laying workers. (there's a good article on > laying workers in the Sept. ABJ) > > > In case you have not followed this string let me fill you in. I think I > > may have killed my queen. :-( It was suggested that I take a look and > see > > what's happening inside the hive a few days later and look for new > > eggs..... > > > > I looked today (this is 1 week after the incident). What I found was > larva > > and capped brood in the brood chamber that the queen was (?) in and no > > queen cells. Now two chambers above in a shallow box meant for honey I > > found lots of large capped brood cells (mabey drones ?) and allot of > larva > > and regular size capped brood. As for the middle box it was just being > > filled with honey and I found no evidence of brood there. > > > > My bees are Caucasian and usually very docile but today there were quite > > aggressive and I had to use smoke (something I rarely do). > > > > Soooo.......what's the verdict? do I get a new queen or what? > > > > Thanks for all your help, from a newbee. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:42:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" Subject: Re: Oldtimers need "newbee" questions! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Michael, Thank so much for this posting, I was feeling a little put out by the message about newbees. Bee-L has been a lifeline to me for beekeeping. I'm glad to know some of you are there for us. I read recently on Bee-L that folks can change there subscription to get just the more technical stuff from Bee-L, perhaps those that don't want to hear about all our "newbee" questions and problems could try that way of getting the Best of Bee-L. Of course this is your deal (not you personally Michael) and if you all really prefer that we go else wear I will sadly :-( go. > I'm occasionally a little frustrated by seeing a question come up that I, > or some other list contributor answered in detail only a month or two > before, but that's ok with me. I'm just happy to have all these new > beekeepers getting involved. > > I'll put up with a lot of redundency just to make sure these people have a > place to go for help. One subject that hasn't come up much in recent > months is the steady decline in the number of beekeepers in recent years. > It was a big topic a while back, and quite honestly, it's a topic I'd > prefer to leave behind in favor of "newbee" questions. If you complained > about the decline of beekeeping then, I hope you aren't complaining about > this opportunity to do something about it! > > Maybe someone with a programmer's bent and time on their hands will come up > with a better way to retreive archived info, but until then, we need to > hang in there and not slam the door on new beekeepers. After 16 years I'm > still full of questions, some of which aren't all that sophisticated, and I > bet you are too. > > Michael Reddell > mwr@hotcity.com > http://www.hotcity.com/~mwr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 21:04:21 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My lifestyle simply does not allow me the reading time that I would like to have. I am a full time wife, mother of two preteen boys, work full time and am a full time student and active in my church and community....... If it were not for Bee-L I would probebly not have a bee hive today becuase I simply would not have the time to keep up with all there is to know. I do read several of my bee books on occation but simply do not have time to search for every thing. If I had known that my questioning would irritate anybody I would not have done so much of it. I know this may irritate some of you but I really need bee-L simply as a time saving measure and to get to know other bee keepers. (I've found many of my cyber friends to be just a good or better than regular friends) In Him, Elizabeth M. Bowles elizabeth@ctwok.com Missouri, USA > keepers. However, I feel that both may be to blame. New bee keepers > should do some research before posting simple questions, but as a newbie > myself I found you can read many books and some times your questions > are just not answered. It is in these situations that a experienced > person can be a very valuable resource. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:08:52 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: gary helriegel Subject: Help! Content-Type: text/plain I cant leave the list( i trashed the message telling me how) HELP! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:28:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: test again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT please ignore ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 07:44:12 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is a test, please ignore. Aaron Morris - thinking there's going to be a bazillion posts about this test, please refrain! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:46:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Treatment for bee stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I have my bees (3 hives) in my back garden in suburban Dublin. As a service to my neighbours, I was thinking of having a supply of a medical product to counteract stings, should any of them be stung. I am told that anti histamine tablets are good for this. However the details on the carton specify hay fever but not bee stings. Are there any other products available to do the same job as I am anxious to compare prices and effectiveness. Thanks for any help Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:06:20 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Wintering Requirement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Andy and All: You wrote: >... One lesson all learn is that bees have nasty >habits of eating back on brood if the food intake falls below a certain >level, ... But you also wrote that "bees consume only liquids". Now I actually did not find that very contradictory, because brood is probably more liquidy than pollen. I can imagine the bees breaking up the outer cuticle of the larva and sucking up the juice much as a spider. (Do they haul out the larval shell afterwards? I can imagine that it might be less work than breaking it up into drinkable size pieces.) Anyway, Andy, I was pretty intrigued by the idea of bees DRINKING their beebread and it has some practical application in how firm one mixes his/her pollen substitute/extender. So I went to the anatomy section of Hive and Honeybee today and went over mouthparts and feeding. It never actually says that bees ONLY use their proboscis for feeding. It is in fact anatomicly possible for the bees to put something in their mouth without it going through the proboscis (using the mandibles). On the other hand, the proboscis is a perfect "sludge" pump for pumping very thick viscous stuff. It has a hairy tongue pumping up and down inside it to keep stuff moving and unclogged, and if it does clog, it disassembles very easily . So, I am not really doubting you Andy, but I am wondering how sure you are that bees ONLY drink. You might even pull our legs sometimes . Stan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 14:32:14 -0500 Reply-To: wwallace@concentric.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Wallace Organization: Wallace Apiaries Subject: Re: Help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: You are now subscribed to the BEE-L list Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 04:18:09 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Reply-To: BEE-L-request@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU To: "" Thu, 21 Aug 1997 04:18:09 Your subscription to the BEE-L list (Discussion of Bee Biology) has been accepted. Please save this message for future reference, especially if this is the first time you subscribe to an electronic mailing list. If you ever need to leave the list, you will find the necessary instructions below. Perhaps more importantly, saving a copy of this message (and of all future subscription notices from other mailing lists) in a special mail folder will give you instant access to the list of mailing lists that you are subscribed to. This may prove very useful the next time you go on vacation and need to leave the lists temporarily so as not to fill up your mailbox while you are away! You should also save the "welcome messages" from the list owners that you will occasionally receive after subscribing to a new list. To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the list, just send mail to BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. This is called "sending mail to the list", because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV makes copies for all the people who have subscribed. This address (BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU) is also called the "list address". You must never try to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed to all the people who have subscribed. All commands must be sent to the "LISTSERV address", LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It is very important to understand the difference between the two, but fortunately it is not complicated. The LISTSERV address is like a FAX number that connects you to a machine, whereas the list address is like a normal voice line connecting you to a person. If you make a mistake and dial the FAX number when you wanted to talk to someone on the phone, you will quickly realize that you used the wrong number and call again. No harm will have been done. If on the other hand you accidentally make your FAX call someone's voice line, the person receiving the call will be inconvenienced, especially if your FAX then re-dials every 5 minutes. The fact that most people will eventually connect the FAX machine to the voice line to allow the FAX to go through and make the calls stop does not mean that you should continue to send FAXes to the voice number. People would just get mad at you. It works pretty much the same way with mailing lists, with the difference that you are calling hundreds or thousands of people at the same time, and consequently you can expect a lot of people to get upset if you consistently send commands to the list address. You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. You can also tell LISTSERV how you want it to confirm the receipt of messages you send to the list. If you do not trust the system, send a "SET BEE-L REPRO" command and LISTSERV will send you a copy of your own messages, so that you can see that the message was distributed and did not get damaged on the way. After a while you may find that this is getting annoying, especially if your mail program does not tell you that the message is from you when it informs you that new mail has arrived from BEE-L. If you send a "SET BEE-L ACK NOREPRO" command, LISTSERV will mail you a short acknowledgement instead, which will look different in your mailbox directory. With most mail programs you will know immediately that this is an acknowledgement you can read later. Finally, you can turn off acknowledgements completely with "SET BEE-L NOACK NOREPRO". Following instructions from the list owner, your subscription options have been set to "MIME" rather than the usual LISTSERV defaults. For more information about subscription options, send a "QUERY BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can get a list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. You can then order these files with a "GET BEE-L LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter. This list is available in digest form. If you wish to receive the digested version of the postings, just issue a SET BEE-L DIGEST command. Please note that it is presently possible for other people to determine that you are signed up to the list through the use of the "REVIEW" command, which returns the e-mail address and name of all the subscribers. If you do not want your name to be visible, just issue a "SET BEE-L CONCEAL" command. More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:03:08 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Les H Vaughn Subject: buckeye tnx Thanx to all who responded to my question about buckeye trees. I live in Illinois, and have the "Ohio Buckeye". According to your responces I should have no worries. Les Vaughn leslist@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:33:43 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brian Myers Subject: Reflections on my first year with the bees (long!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Hello all - It was about a year ago that I started preparing myself for this adventure, which is really just now beginning; an adventure which reached a wonderful high point this last Saturday, with the gushing of that liquid gold from my extractor. I had decided, almost without thinking, that beekeeping would be an interesting avocation which could supply me with the large quantities of honey I use in my other avocation, brewing - beer and mead. I had no illusions that this would be to save money. The purpose was to have the rawest, freshest possible honey, and to have some fun along the way. I have succeeded. I had no real mentor; I knew a beekeeper, from whom I'd been buying my honey, but he lived a long distance away. I later found beekeepers who lived closer, but initially I had nobody to "show me the ropes". I say this primarily to encourage others who may have reservations - you can learn everything you need to know without help if you have to. I started by gathering information. This list, of course, is rich in information. I went to the library and read every book they had on bees. My beekeeper friend gave me a few back issues of "American Bee Journal" and "Bee Culture", the two primary American bee magazines. I subscribed to "Bee Culture", but both magazines are a great source of information - especially the advertisements. Armed with these contacts, I ordered five or six catalogs. Some were bare-bones plain, but some were quite informative. By far, the best catalog I have seen (for beginners, anyway) is the one from Brushy Mountain. No affiliation, yadda yadda, of any products I'll mention here. I strongly encourage any of you to check it out for yourself. I started looking in the want ads for an extractor - by this time I had realized that a new extractor was beyond my finances, so I hoped to find a retiring beekeeper. I soon did, and picked up a monstrous 32-frame stainless steel extractor, in pretty good shape, for $400. Considering that a much smaller hand-cranked model is nearly that price when new, I was very happy. If you are thinking about starting with bees, my advice is to watch the want ads and wait for a good deal - you might get lucky, like I did. I considered trying to find my hive parts used also, and decided against it. In spite of the cost, I wanted new woodenware and frames, mainly for two reasons: fear of disease, and because I wanted to try the plastic frames. I had heard both good and bad about the Pierco one-piece frame & foundation; but most of the bad stuff I heard was from people who tried to use the plastic and the wooden types together - people who used Pierco exclusively seemed very pleased. Well, now I am one of those who is very pleased. My bees seem to love the stuff, and they were not reluctant at all to draw it out into comb. I love the ease of use and durability of it. I would especially recommend it for the beginner, as it is one less thing to worry about. So, last winter I ordered all the gear, except a smoker and a bee suit (I only ordered a hat and veil). This turned out to be a mistake, as I'll explain shortly. If you're wanting to start with bees next Spring, you should order your woodenware in the Winter so you have plenty of time to put it together and paint it. Also, don't wait until Spring to order package bees - you don't know what the demand may be like in Spring, so place your order early - like December. I'm not kidding. I ordered two 3-pound packages from Calvert in Georgia, to arrive the first week of April. I have been very satisfied with the bees from Calvert, but there is one thing they could have done better. The package bees came with no instructions. I figured that wasn't a big deal, since I had read in several books how to install a package, except for one thing - no one had ever explained how the queen cage was secured inside. To back up just a bit... I was ready for my bees arrival. I got a telephone call about 8:30 Saturday morning the first week of April, from the post office. "Um - we open at 9:00, and we'd REALLY appreciate it if you'd be here then to pick up your package". The caller sounded a little nervous (nervous postal workers tend to make me nervous too ;-). At the PO, once they knew which package I was there for, I was escorted to the front of the line. I got quite a lot of attention carrying out my BUZZing package with the strong breeze coming from it! I put the cage in a dark room, and brushed thick sugar water on the screen until they stopped lapping it up. I took all my stuff out to the bee site and donned my hat, veil, and gloves, and set to work. I first drenched the bees with warm water, which seemed to upset them somewhat, but only for a few seconds. Then I pried off the wooden shingle and pulled out the syrup can. I had expected the queen cage to be attached somehow to the can, and when it wasn't, I didn't quite know what to do. Bees were beginning to pour out, so I started dumping them in the hive. When I had most of them out, I finally realized where the queen was. Maybe you old-timers all know this, but for the benefit of you newbies, the queen cage (at least on my package) is attached to the outside of the main cage with a piece of string. What you want to do is, take out the syrup can, then very quickly grab that string, fish out the suspended queen cage, and slap that shingle back on - quick! You might kill a few bees - don't worry. Once you have the main cage re-sealed, you can take your time preparing the queen cage. Find the end of the queen cage which has the white candy in it, and extract the cork plug from that end (not the other end!). Needle-nose pliers work well for this. Put the queen cage in the hive, and then re-open the main cage, and dump in the bees. Then, as best you can, close up the hive. That's what I did on my second attempt. The first hive didn't go so smoothly. The bees were crawling everywhere (since they were looking for the queen), and I had a hard time getting the cork plug out, because there were bees all over the cage. As it turned out, I didn't get the whole cork plug out - half of it broke off. A few days later, I opened the hives to make sure the queens were released. Hive #2 (where I did it right) was doing fine, the queen was not in the cage, and they had taken a lot of sugar syrup from the baggie feeder. The other hive seemed angry. I knew there might be a problem with the cork plug not being completely removed, but when I tried to grab the queen cage, it slipped down between the frames to the bottom of the box. I tried to take out a couple of frames so I could retrieve the cage, but when I started doing that, the bees got really pissed and started attacking me. Now, remember that I still didn't have a smoker or a full bee suit yet- I had to abandon the queen cage and hope for the best. I got twenty or thirty stings, I'd guess - mostly through my shirt and on my ankles. I found a good "bee suit" at an Army surplus store - it's a set of coveralls, gold-colored, made of a light, slippery nylon material. It works great, it's fairly cool, and it only cost $20. The smoker came mail-order. So, I re-opened the angry hive - this was one week after the installation. I got the queen cage out, and sure enough, she was still in there. I pulled out the remainder of the cork and - you guessed it - she took flight. I tried to catch her but lost her in the cloud of angry bees. I _thought_ I saw her re-enter the hive a few minutes later, but it could have been a big drone I saw. So, hopeful that she had returned home, I closed up the hive. One week later, it was clear she was gone - no brood. Either she never returned, or perhaps she returned and was killed by the bees; I'll never know. So, I did the only thing I thought might work - I took a frame of brood from my good hive and installed it in the queenless one. Sure enough, after a week, there were at least three queen cells on that frame. By the way, I've never been able to see eggs yet, even when I know they must be there. Small larvae are the closest I've come. So, I checked later that the queens had hatched out (I saw the empty Q cells). Then, about ten days after hatching, I saw some new brood - hooray! The mating flight must have been a success. However, this hive has never been anywhere near as strong as the other hive - I got no surplus from the weak hive at all, even though they were 'only' about a month behind. They seem to be doing fine; just not as populous as the other. So, they've been busy all summer. I gave them syrup for a month or so, then started supering the strong hive. I gave them both three medium depth boxes for themselves, and the strong hive got 4 additional boxes above the queen excluder. They packed two supers solid with honey, and filled part of a third. Thanks to this list, I learned how to operate my old extractor, and all went smoothly. I used the Hackler punch to uncap, and was very pleased with how it worked. Allen is correct, it gets clogged with wax quickly - you must keep a pot of boiling hot water handy to clean it after each frame. I haven't used an uncapping knife or scratcher, so I can't say it's any better than those, but it worked well for me. I liked the fact that I could just hold the frame over the extractor, run the punch over the surface, and load it - no cappings to deal with, no tank needed. I got about five gallons of delicious honey - more than I expected. This weekend I'll install Apistan strips and grease patties, and I'll feed Fumadil-B in sugar syrup when that arrives (mail-order), to prepare them for Winter. I'm sorry if anyone is upset by the length of this post, but my hope is that this rambling may help someone out there to avoid at least some of my mistakes. All in all, it's been a great experience so far! Thanks to all for your encouragement and support, Brian Myers Norman, OK, central USA First year, two hives (so far) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:28:25 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: IRS Question At what point does all the dollars that I spend having so much fun raising honey bees turn into a potential deduction on a Business Form for my yearly taxes. Heaven forbid that this be a newbee question! Brett D. Bannon Folsom, NM USA bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:37:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Queen size? Hi all: I just received and installed a queen from a reputable breeder. When comparing the old queen to the new queen that I just purchased I noticed the old queen to be considerably longer (having a longer thorax). Will the new queen increase in size once she is starting to lay? Are older queens naturally larger than young queens? If a queen breeder sends small queens is it reason to complain or quit using them? Brett D. Bannon bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:20:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" Subject: desease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More of the possible missing queen story....... I looked and it appears that there is fresh larva,(very small) but not standing on end like some had mentioned, but rather just tiny little curled around larva in the bottom of many cells. Mabey I just could not see well enough to see fresh eggs. This was in the box that the original queen was in and mabey still in. Now, in the box 2 above that one there is the oversized cells with large larva. Per Dr. R's advise I check to see if they were large with red eyes by picking them out. Well........ a few just popped out and did not appear to have red eyes, I do believe there were a few mites in them though. But..... most of them were a gooyee mesh that was kind of stringy and this made me worried about AFB. The cells did not look like those in my books. they looked well put together, just big. I'm thinking of just trashing the top box and trying to save the bottom two.....Please help! Have I come this far to loose my hive? Beekeeping is my relaxation in this busy life I live. Sincerely, Elizabeth M. Bowles elizabeth@ctwok.com Missouri, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:48:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnite Bee Subject: beeswax supplier/help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Greetings! Can anyone help this gentleman? He is looking for beeswax ( 20/lbs at a time.) Herb(Midnitebee) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- Tony rotondo Tue Sep 9 12:52:24 1997 Location: toledo,oh E- mail: TRotondo@aol.com Comments:i would like to find a list of beeswax suppliers(small craft 20 lbs) at a time. i enjoyed reading the fyi stuff also ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:29:00 +0002 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Krell, Rainer (REUS)" Subject: Attachments for "High" risk space mission with large plutonium load MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID ZNVqDkWLrriBO9mY0eFnQA)" --Boundary (ID ZNVqDkWLrriBO9mY0eFnQA) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sorry I forgot the attachments in the previous message. ---------------- Dear concerned all, The following is for your information and if you consider it worthwhile it is also for your participation, further distribution or at least your own awareness. Whether all the details are correct I cannot guarantee, but the fact alone of sending another spacecraft with a large load of Plutonium into space is enough reason for concern - not out of anti-technology sentiment (as is often argued by the pro-nuclear proliferation side), but out of simple safety concerns, particularly when there are other (just as high-tech) solutions available. Regards Rainer Krell ---------- The mission is called Cassini and intends to explore the rings around Saturn a.o.. In Italian, a casino is a whore house and "fare casini" means making a big mess. Accidental? The speed of the space craft at its most critical point (leaving earth or reentering and burning up in its atmosphere) near earth is supposed to be 711.666 Miles per minute. If you believe in numerical symbology this means "playing dice (gambling - casino) with the devil". Accidental? Accidental, accident or not, puns aside. No big deal if this would be just an ordinary space mission; but the payload is a Saturn explorer with 72 lbs of plutonium on board. The published risk analysis seems highly understated if considering case histories and keeps changing; and the worst case scenario is that enough Plutonium is distributed in the earth atmosphere to cause lung cancer in every human being; no speculation on what it might do to the rest of nature. The deal can supposedly be avoided by a few years' delay for redesigning the spacecraft with solar panels. No risk versus high risk? Are we that much in a rush or willing to gamble with a saved billion against trillions of dollars of damages to risk global health (i.e. possibly more Plutonium released than during all nuclear testing combined) for just a little bit more of scientific knowledge? OR? For more information read the attachment >Cassini.doc< or check http://www.lovearth.org/ What can we do? For suggestions see the attachment >todonext.doc< "We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive." Albert Einstein Your help and awareness will make a difference Rainer [[ CASSINI.DOC : 5728 in CASSINI.DOC ]][[ TODONEXT.DOC : 5729 in TODONEXT.DOC ]] --Boundary (ID ZNVqDkWLrriBO9mY0eFnQA) Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM; NAME=CASSINI.DOC Content-description: CASSINI.DOC Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOwADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAA AQAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAgAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAAAAAAD///////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:26:00 +0002 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Krell, Rainer (REUS)" Subject: FW: "High" risk space mission with large plutonium load MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear concerned all, The following is for your information and if you consider it worthwhile it is also for your participation, further distribution or at least your own awareness. Whether all the details are correct I cannot guarantee, but the fact alone of sending another spacecraft with a large load of Plutonium into space is enough reason for concern - not out of anti-technology sentiment (as is often argued by the pro-nuclear proliferation side), but out of simple safety concerns, particularly when there are other (just as high-tech) solutions available. Regards Rainer Krell ---------- The mission is called Cassini and intends to explore the rings around Saturn a.o.. In Italian, a casino is a whore house and "fare casini" means making a big mess. Accidental? The speed of the space craft at its most critical point (leaving earth or reentering and burning up in its atmosphere) near earth is supposed to be 711.666 Miles per minute. If you believe in numerical symbology this means "playing dice (gambling - casino) with the devil". Accidental? Accidental, accident or not, puns aside. No big deal if this would be just an ordinary space mission; but the payload is a Saturn explorer with 72 lbs of plutonium on board. The published risk analysis seems highly understated if considering case histories and keeps changing; and the worst case scenario is that enough Plutonium is distributed in the earth atmosphere to cause lung cancer in every human being; no speculation on what it might do to the rest of nature. The deal can supposedly be avoided by a few years' delay for redesigning the spacecraft with solar panels. No risk versus high risk? Are we that much in a rush or willing to gamble with a saved billion against trillions of dollars of damages to risk global health (i.e. possibly more Plutonium released than during all nuclear testing combined) for just a little bit more of scientific knowledge? OR? For more information read the attachment >Cassini.doc< or check http://www.lovearth.org/ What can we do? For suggestions see the attachment >todonext.doc< "We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive." Albert Einstein Your help and awareness will make a difference Rainer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 15:07:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Sugar Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I expect to feed my bees sucrose this fall and have been been looking around for cheap sugar. I will need about 500 lbs dry weight. Better Bee (near Albany NY) offers bulk sugar for around $0.25 but they are out of it. Restaurant suppliers actually charge more than supermarkets! So far, the best I can do is US$0.28 per lb at a chain called Aldi. About 25 years ago, there was a sugar shortage in the USA that made it clear that the price of cane sugar in the US was significantly higher than that of the rest of the world. I remember that the price had reached $0.40 per lb. in the US but that Mexican supermarkets had offered it for only $0.08. Right now, US sugar at the commodity market (112,000 lbs) sells for about $0.225 per lb while world sugar sells for about $0.11. I live within a 2 hour drive of the border. Would one of our Canadian BEE-l subscribers let me know what sugar costs in Canada? It might be well worth my trip. Conrad Sigona Newport, New York (smack in the middle of the state) conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:17:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MORRIS BOOTON Organization: NONE Subject: Re: Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > > I received the following message. > > Could someone in Michigan thereabouts help > these folks out. > ---------- > >From - Sun Sep 07 20:03:12 1997 > Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) > by xensei2.xensei.com (8.8.3/4.22.97) with ESMTP id RAA31227 for > ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:55 -0400 > From: Goofy12345@aol.com > Received: (from root@localhost) > by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) > id RAA29342 for alwine@xensei.com; > Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) > Message-ID: <970908173707_-433501816@emout19.mail.aol.com> > To: alwine@xensei.com > Subject: Could you help me out?? > Status: O > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > Content-Length: 633 > > My uncle owns a boathouse around where I live in Michigan, and just > recently...he found an unusual type of bee swarming around a tree nearby. > Could you help us find out what type of bee it is? It would help us out > a > lot. > > Here is what I was told it looked like: > > a little bit larger than a yellowjacket either dark black or dark brown > colored body & (i don't know the proper termilogy on bees, so im going to > have to pinch hit) it had a white spot on its head and another one on its > tail > > If you could help us out, we would really appreciate it, if not thank you > for > your time anyway. > > Sincerely, > Goofy12345 > --------------------- > > Thanks, > > Al, > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA > Cerberus - Three Sites In One > Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle > http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/Sounds like a Bald Faced Hornet. fwiw ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 13:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: kferner@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: kferner Subject: Honey Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know where, on the internet or otherwise, I can find out what the wholesale price per pound of honey it is right now? I understand it has gone down from .79 to .50 per pound. Could this be true? Thanks. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:57:11 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert Knight Subject: Thymol as a Varroacide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The discussion on this dated the 4th of September 1997 is of considerable interest to me and some of my beekeeping friends. Could the following questions relating to the watch glass method be answered:- 1. Where in the hive was the watch glass sited? 2. Was any covering used over the watch glass? Albert Knight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:57:50 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My uncle owns a boathouse around where I live in Michigan, and just > recently...he found an unusual type of bee swarming around a tree nearby. > Could you help us find out what type of bee it is? It would help us out > a > lot. > > Here is what I was told it looked like: > > a little bit larger than a yellowjacket either dark black or dark brown > colored body & (i don't know the proper termilogy on bees, so im going to > have to pinch hit) it had a white spot on its head and another one on its > tail > > If you could help us out, we would really appreciate it, if not thank you > for > your time anyway. Sounds to me like this person is talking about a common bald-faced hornet. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:36:09 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan Treatment necessary? Comments: To: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU If you're more or less certain you have no or minimal infestation why bother treating? Medicines are there for treatment of maladies - you don't need them all the time. Use varroa boards to check your mite drop but from what you've said it sounds like this particular colony of yours is one of the few fortunate ones to be lacking serious infestation. Treat only when (and` unfortunately, I don't mean if) you find an infestation and not before. Best regards, Max Vita (Europe) Limited ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Apistan Treatment necessary? Author: owner-bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU at INTERNET1 Date: 8/28/97 2:24 PM Both the county bee inspector and my own personal testing for varroa (visually inspecting drone larvae) showed no evidence of varroa in my first year hive. I am somewhat chemical averse, or at least prefer not to use any when no absolutely necessary. Is it customary to not treat a hive with Apistan if fairly confident the hive is not infested? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:33:53 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Rest of LISTSERV output? In-Reply-To: <199709081245_MC2-1F96-DD5D@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Rory Stenerson wrote: > Thank you Donald Aitken for the instructions on how to use the SEARCH > command on the LISTSERV. How can I get the rest of items of a search if it > only the first 100 matches, (unfortunately the most dated?) Hi Rory! The list can be searched for items in a particular date range. The following message ( To the LISTSERVER - not the BEE-L ) retrieves only the messages since January 1997. SEARCH formic acid IN bee-l SINCE Jan 1997 The capitals indicate commands which the LISTSERVER responds to and the small letters indicate the things that you specify. Best regards, Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:30:17 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rory Stenerson <71762.1664@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Searching the Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A big THANK YOU to Joe Hemmens on his list of instructions for using the LISTSERV commands for info searchs. = Nicely done sir, Wassail! A big grin on my face as I learn something new and VERY useful. **************************************************************** * I believe that the phenomena of nature * * is the expression of infinite intelligence. * * I express my belief that all forms of life * * are manifestations of spirit * * and thus, we are all children of God, Peace * **************************************************************** * Rory Stenerson _ * * Member - Centre County Beekeepers Association _( )_ ^ * * V.P. - State College Underground Maltsters ( - ) * * State College, PA U.S.A. ^ ( - ^ ) ^ * * E-mail: 71762.1664@compuserve.com ( - - ) * * ( - +++ ) * **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:43:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Re: beekeeping terminology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ahmed SLIMI wrote : > Would anyone out there please help me : I'm looking > for the French equivalent for the following terms :< You have : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices/dico_fr.htm http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices/dico_us.htm or, if it's too busy or slow : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices/dico_fr.htm http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices/dico_us.htm (\ {III8< (/ Ratia Gilles International beekeeping consultant APISERVICES "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - France Phone : (+33) 5 53 05 91 13 Mobile : (+33) 6 07 68 49 39 Fax : (+33) 5 53 04 44 57 Email : apiservices@compuserve.com URL 1 : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices URL 2 : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:26:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jasman-James Cleveland Subject: Re: Help! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:08 PM 9/8/97 PDT, you wrote: >I cant leave the list( i trashed the message telling me how) >HELP! > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. You can also tell LISTSERV how you want it to confirm the receipt of messages you send to the list. If you do not trust the system, send a "SET BEE-L REPRO" command and LISTSERV will send you a copy of your own messages, so that you can see that the message was distributed and did not get damaged on the way. After a while you may find that this is getting annoying, especially if your mail program does not tell you that the message is from you when it informs you that new mail has arrived from BEE-L. If you send a "SET BEE-L ACK NOREPRO" command, LISTSERV will mail you a short acknowledgement instead, which will look different in your mailbox directory. With most mail programs you will know immediately that this is an acknowledgement you can read later. Finally, you can turn off acknowledgements completely with "SET BEE-L NOACK NOREPRO". Following instructions from the list owner, your subscription options have been set to "MIME" rather than the usual LISTSERV defaults. For more information about subscription options, send a "QUERY BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can get a list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX BEE-L" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. You can then order these files with a "GET BEE-L LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter. This list is available in digest form. If you wish to receive the digested version of the postings, just issue a SET BEE-L DIGEST command. Please note that it is presently possible for other people to determine that you are signed up to the list through the use of the "REVIEW" command, which returns the e-mail address and name of all the subscribers. If you do not want your name to be visible, just issue a "SET BEE-L CONCEAL" command. More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 07:58:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Thin honey and the same old (basic) questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This thread really makes me proud! :( I thought we liked having new beekeepers join us. Yeah, the comments can be repetitive, but so is the subject of newbee questions. If you don't like them then please refer to the archives for previous complaints on the subject rather than flaming half the list with your bad attitude. There is a valid point hidden in all this though, and I think it's what Allen was trying to address with the note that touched this off. The internet is not a very well organized place, and a list like this is inherently somewhat chaotic. We need some useability enhancements. If you come up with something that solves the problem nicely, you might end up rich. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:48:31 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary here's the way off.... "You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF BEE-L" COMMAND TO LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU" Note: Don't do what I did and send it to every addressee on the BEE-L. Make sure you send it to the list server "LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU gary helriegel wrote: > > I cant leave the list( i trashed the message telling me how) > HELP! > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:45:41 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Pheysey Subject: Update on uniting colonies - carnage! Comments: cc: NHJV32A@prodigy.com, beeworks@muskoka.net, hogbay@kin.on.net Hi Bill (Hughes), David (Eyre) and Betty (McAdam) First of all, many thanks for reponding to my request for advice, I mulled it over and plucked up enough courage to have a go last Saturday - here's an update from Monday night's inspection. CARNAGE! - Absolute carnage, there must be at least one or two thousand dead bees lying on the ground in front of the hive along with the shredded newspaper. A carpet 10" by 14" of little bodies, all with their tounges extended, stropping in submission? or a response to being stung to death? What a sad sight - what did I do wrong? At it seems that I have just managed to wipe out half the entire population of one of my colonies, is there anything I can do to redress the loss? How about feeding heavily to stimulate the queen to lay additional eggs as we still have 2 or 3 more weeks to go before the first frosts begin to bite. Cheers, Mike Pheysey. Oldbury-on-Severn, Bristol, UK (100 miles west of London) mikeph@bri.hp.com --------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:07:50 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Grossman Subject: Help - Pollen Bound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I need some help and suggestions on a particular problem I have with a couple of my hives. Some of my hives have a very large amount (6 to 10 frames) of frames with pollen, mostly in the lower brood chamber (I use two standard brood chambers all year round). In years past, as the bees moved up, these pollen frames were particularly susceptible to becoming moldy - and occasionally the pollen gets so hard that it has to be cleaned out and thrown away. There is very little honey stored in these pollen frames, and no brood. Basically, these frames seem to be of little use for the bees in getting thru the winter. I need some suggestions on how to stop these pollen frames from becoming a moldy nightmare by next spring (should I remove them and "store" them somehow and put them back in the spring?), and depending on those answers, what should I do with a double brood chamber hive that essentially is using just the upper chamber for brood and honey storage at this time of the year. I am in western Oregon, just southwest of Portland. Our weather is mostly rainy in the winter and in the 40 degree Fahrenheit range. We get freezing weather a couple weeks worth. Thanks in advance for your help. Rick Grossman rgrossman@nutclub.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 08:07:45 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Grossman Subject: Re: Varroa Mites, Wasps, Hornets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:59 PM 9/4/97 +0000, you wrote: >We also seem to be having a more or less varroa free year in Missoula, >Montana. We intentionally keep some varroa infested hives for our >research, but no sign of the beasts. Nor have we seen any in our hives in >Maryland. > >I'd be interested in reports of areas where varroa has been a problem this >year. Are the successes of the various treatments due to the treatment or >just an artifact of a natural cycling in the varroa populations. > >Jerry Bromenshenk I live in the southwest area of Portland, Oregon. Since I got mites a few years back I have been treating with Apistan. I treated in spring this year. After removing the honey crop in late August, and going thru the hives in detail, everyone (11) had significant mite infestation. Some so bad, I am worried about their winter survival. I have treated with Apistan for the fall and will closely monitor the hives over the waning weeks of good weather. Rick Grossman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:08:08 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: "Newbees" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ---------- Elizabeth M. Bowles wrote: > My lifestyle simply does not allow me the reading time that I would like to > have. > > I am a full time wife, mother of two preteen boys, work full time and am a > full time student and active in my church and community....... > If it were not for Bee-L I would probebly not have a bee hive today becuase > I simply would not have the time to keep up with all there is to know. I do > read several of my bee books on occation but simply do not have time to > search for every thing. If I had known that my questioning would irritate > anybody I would not have done so much of it. I know this may irritate some > of you but I really need bee-L simply as a time saving measure and to get > to know other bee keepers. (I've found many of my cyber friends to be just > a good or better than regular friends) > > In Him, > > Elizabeth M. Bowles > elizabeth@ctwok.com > Missouri, USA > I totally relate because I too am a "newbee" (I'll be starting my first hives next spring) as well as a full-time wife and mother and business owner. Although I have done a lot of research on my own, have purchased several beekeeping books, and joined my local beekeeping association, I still value the Bee-L a great deal and would hope that my questions would be welcomed by the more seasoned beekeepers here on Bee-L. Thanks in advance to you on the Bee-L who are more experienced and endure the questions of us "newbees" with patience... you are our "cyber-mentors," and we appreciate your help a great deal. Thanks again... Mary Caldwell MPCEnterprises@mci2000.com Benicia, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:01:53 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: bee blowers and queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Donald and All: >We use queen excluders and find it simplifies this operation immensely. >You don't worry about blowing the queen away and you don't have brood in >the honey supers. I don't have queen excluders on and intend to blow the supers this year. I have no complaints with the triangle bee escape boards (they work great) but I do have some with the tightness of my equipment and over the years the bees have managed to reclaim quite a bit of their hoard by times. Donald you mentioned that you used a bee blower in some years without queen excluders. Did you find that some queens were lost in the blowing? I wondered whether she might just fly back into the hive along with the other bees? Are there techniques to minimize the chances of loss? Any replies will be appreciated, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:01:15 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert W Needham wrote: > I received the following message. > > Could someone in Michigan thereabouts help > these folks out. I am pretty sure that the insect to which this message refers is a hornet.It is very likely that within a short time their nest will be visible somewhere on that tree. Look for what I like to describe to inquiries as "gray, paper mache, chinese lantern looking object dangling from a limb. Also recommended: stay away from it. Get a professional to remove, if you wish it removed. Hornets are pretty aggressive. Us old-timers, remember with amusement the old cartoons: hornets chasing a kid who dared hit the nest with a stick, etc. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA > ---------- > >From - Sun Sep 07 20:03:12 1997 > Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com > [198.81.11.45]) > by xensei2.xensei.com (8.8.3/4.22.97) with ESMTP id RAA31227 for > ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:55 -0400 > From: Goofy12345@aol.com > Received: (from root@localhost) > by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) > id RAA29342 for alwine@xensei.com; > Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) > Message-ID: <970908173707_-433501816@emout19.mail.aol.com> > To: alwine@xensei.com > Subject: Could you help me out?? > Status: O > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > Content-Length: 633 > > My uncle owns a boathouse around where I live in Michigan, and just > recently...he found an unusual type of bee swarming around a tree > nearby. > Could you help us find out what type of bee it is? It would help us > out > a > lot. > > Here is what I was told it looked like: > > a little bit larger than a yellowjacket either dark black or dark > brown > colored body & (i don't know the proper termilogy on bees, so im going > to > have to pinch hit) it had a white spot on its head and another one on > its > tail > > If you could help us out, we would really appreciate it, if not thank > you > for > your time anyway. > > Sincerely, > Goofy12345 > --------------------- > > Thanks, > > Al, > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA > Cerberus - Three Sites In One > Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle > http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:37:27 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Organization: DNA Subject: Re: re-queening? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth M. Bowles wrote: Hi Elizabeth! 1. Caucasian Queens can be very hard to find, being solid black among black workers 2. Make the decision to try queen replacement on basis of NOT finding A. Eggs-- maybe you can find a local beekeeper to teach you to find them...Its easy to learn; for me its best done on light colored comb, in full sunlight; finding eggs proves a queen alive within the last 72 hours. A one day old larvae is about the size of two commas tail to tail (as on this page,,); in an additional 48 hours, then 6 days after the queen died, this larval brood can be easily seen in good light. 3. This queen, if alive, has skipped from the brood nest across the second box and into the one(s) above, Unfortunately, you have to search them all well enough to say NO QUEEN HAS LAID IN THE COLONY FOR 7 DAYS. If this is true, consider requeening(the most you'll be out of is the cost of a new queen) 4. If the queen is NOT dead, requeening will NOT work, she will not be accepted. 5. It sounds to me that your queen may very well not be dead, because you found no queen cells, which are not too hard to find if you carefully search every single bit of ALL brood area. Try to learn to identify larval brood by size, in days of age. I think one message from you said you could not often get out to your beeyard(distant). I understand that you have had a hard time here, but I wish you well in getting some help...which may not be easy. But Good Luck. Bob Barnett, Birmingham, Alabama > > In case you have not followed this string let me fill you in. I think I > may have killed my queen. :-( It was suggested that I take a look and see > what's happening inside the hive a few days later and look for new > eggs..... > > I looked today (this is 1 week after the incident). What I found was larva > and capped brood in the brood chamber that the queen was (?) in and no > queen cells. Now two chambers above in a shallow box meant for honey I > found lots of large capped brood cells (maybe drones ?) and a lot of larva > and regular size capped brood. As for the middle box it was just being > filled with honey and I found no evidence of brood there. > > My bees are Caucasian and usually very docile but today there were quite > aggressive and I had to use smoke (something I rarely do). > > Soooo.......what's the verdict? do I get a new queen or what? > > Thanks for all your help, from a newbee. > > In Him, > > Elizabeth M. Bowles > elizabeth@ctwok.com > Missouri, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:25:36 -0500 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Curtis L. Spacek" Subject: Re: Excluder over winter(?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit has anyone ever tried heating hives in severe winter climates?It seems to me that 2 or 3 small light bulbs (christmas lights?) behind a hardware cloth cover, to keep the bees from getting burnt,would raise the temp of the hive sufficiently for the bees to utilize their honey stores through out the hive.It probably wouldnt cost more than a dollar per hive to power the lights all winter.they could be wrapped in foil to maintain a dark interior.solar battery chargers for remote areas. its bound to be cheaper than mail order apiaries!!! its one of those newbee thoughts that happened while watching the bees, and swelling less these days. garth, cant get mail to you still trying ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:51:16 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: new beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all the "newbies" out there. 1. Humanity needs beekeeping. 2. Beekeeping needs all the beekeepers that we can get. 3. I know for sure that I do not know all the answers but I promise you that I will ALWAYS be there to assist with your questions. If I do not know an answer, I promise that I'll look it up or ask another one of the experienced beekeepers on the list. I'll never consider questions however insignificant to be without importance. 4. A lot of the people on this list are quite busy, so please do no get discouraged if you do not get the right kind of response. We all learn from the experience of others. I know that I have learned a lot since I subscribed to Bee-L and I know that I am going to continue to learn. 5. If any "newbie" out there feels unconfortable about posting questions to the list, please post them to me, I wont mind. 6. Another suggestion: look at the names of the people who post on Bee-L. That should give you an idea of the persons who may be willing to answer your questions readily. There is quite a few of us people who love honey bees and the art of beekeeping who will be willing to guide you in the right direction to assist you to become one of us. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:44:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chip McCurdy Subject: Re: Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are describing what sounds like a hornet. It is black, has a white face, and the last 1/3 of the abdomen is white (3 bands if you look closely). It builds a nest of paper, shaped like a football and is usually found hanging from a tree limb. They will leave the nest in winter. You can knock it down then. Best to leave them alone until then. They can be very nasty when disturbed. Unlike the honeybee, it does not loose its stinger when it stings you. It will come back for more. Chip ---------- > From: Albert W Needham > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Info > Date: Sunday, September 07, 1997 20:18 > > I received the following message. > > Could someone in Michigan thereabouts help > these folks out. > ---------- > >From - Sun Sep 07 20:03:12 1997 > Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) > by xensei2.xensei.com (8.8.3/4.22.97) with ESMTP id RAA31227 for > ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:55 -0400 > From: Goofy12345@aol.com > Received: (from root@localhost) > by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) > id RAA29342 for alwine@xensei.com; > Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) > Message-ID: <970908173707_-433501816@emout19.mail.aol.com> > To: alwine@xensei.com > Subject: Could you help me out?? > Status: O > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > Content-Length: 633 > > My uncle owns a boathouse around where I live in Michigan, and just > recently...he found an unusual type of bee swarming around a tree nearby. > Could you help us find out what type of bee it is? It would help us out > a > lot. > > Here is what I was told it looked like: > > a little bit larger than a yellowjacket either dark black or dark brown > colored body & (i don't know the proper termilogy on bees, so im going to > have to pinch hit) it had a white spot on its head and another one on its > tail > > If you could help us out, we would really appreciate it, if not thank you > for > your time anyway. > > Sincerely, > Goofy12345 > --------------------- > > Thanks, > > Al, > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > awneedham@juno.com - Scituate,MA,USA > Cerberus - Three Sites In One > Honey Bees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle > http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:08:29 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Beekeeping Information (NZ) In-Reply-To: <97Sep9.142246nzst.34568@gateway.boppoly.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" NZ Beekeeping: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz From the UNDERWORLD of New Zealand comes Nick's Beekeeping WEB pages and if you have not visited it lately you are in for a real treat. Maybe its the difference in time but most web masters will eat their hearts out in the speed from this site. Lots of BEEKEEPING information and some interesting Java and links. For something special try the NZ Radio link for the latest NEWS with the NZ slant on World and Local news. Its worth the trip...still in Beta so its free too! Also of note is the scrolling BEEKEEPING NEWS feature, and you will find many informational files to download via an e-mail auto responder. Bee sure and add the BEEKEEPING LINKS to your own browser as they are very good. ttul, the OLd Drone ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paula Franke Subject: Unusual nectar/pollen sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've read with interest everyone's observations on what their bees are working now. So I've been paying attention to who is working what here at Head of Happy Hollow Farm. Bumblebees and butterflies are working jewelweed and Joe Pye weed. Some sort of 1/4-inch long black bee with thin white stripes (which display frantic activity but are apparently very gentle) are doing something furious around the bottom of the tobacco plants and chrysanthemums, and collecting loads of white pollen. The honeybees are hard to find, but I've seen them collecting pollen from broadleaf plantain (bumblebees are collecting pollen from the English plantain), and are gathering syrup/nectar from wild cherry trees. By that, I mean they are on the sap that is oozing from the bark. They are also working what clover is left. And, OK, be warned that this is probably offensive, but the honeybees appear to have an unseemly attraction to certain fresh wet spots on the tires on all of our vehicles, shortly after the dogs visit the same tires. This is also the time of year for witch hazel trees/shrubs to be in bloom, but I haven't found any of those yet so don't know if the bees are there. Paula Franke in Tollesboro, KY pfranke@kih.net http://www.users.kih.net/~pfranke "There are only two rules in life: 1. Don't sweat the small stuff. 2. It's all small stuff." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:41:21 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: newbee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All: FWIW Old timers around here were always the most reliable source of information for new beekeepers. The good fellowship among all beekeepers has been one of the main reasons for carrying on, and taking the chances involved with a severe allergy to stings. All these kind persons were loved and respected, more than they knew. ----------One tip I also received from one of them: Do NOT wear a (ticking) watch....they seem to be readily agitated by this tiny sound.. Eunice > From: Bill Bartlett > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: newbee questions > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 5:07 PM > > There is no such thing as a dumb question ---- Only dumb answers!!! > > billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:39:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: Re: Unusual nectar/pollen sources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >And, OK, be warned that this is probably offensive, but the honeybees >appear to have an unseemly attraction to certain fresh wet spots on the >tires on all of our vehicles, shortly after the dogs visit the same >tires. Bees in my yard have always been overly interested in where the dog marked. We had the vet check the dog for diabetes, but that wasn't it. Must be something else that the girls are after. Ed Kear Southern Adirondacks of Upstate New York ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:40:32 -0400 Reply-To: mrayson@apk.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael J. Schuerger, Sr" Organization: Rayson Computer Services Subject: Re: Reflections on my first year with the bees (long!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suggest we keep Brian's post (if ok by him) as one of the FAQs being discussed. Very clear and readable. Congratulations on a successful 1st year! Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:53:46 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Unusual nectar/pollen sources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paula Franke wrote: I know for sure that bees will visit urine deposits from humans with diabetes mellitus (sugar diabetes) but I had never heard of the same thing for dogs. Based on a similar analogy, could be your dogs have sugar in their urine? Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:21:50 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: IRS Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brett D Bannon wrote: > > At what point does all the dollars that I spend having so much fun > raising honey bees turn into a potential deduction on a Business Form for > my yearly taxes. Heaven forbid that this be a newbee question! > You need to make a profit in 3 of every 5 years for the IRS to consider it a business and not just a hobby. You also should keep careful records to document all expenses and income. Then file schedule F with your tax return. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:56:51 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Reflections on my first year with the bees (long!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like you had a great first year's experience among the bees and learned a lot not only from others but from your own observations. My only comment is in regard to hiving a package of bees: It isn't important to get the queen cage out of the package and install her first. The bees are confused enough and will be curious about their new surroundings for quite awhile, easily enough time to fish out the queen cage and get it installed. Incidentally, I always just immediately release the queen into the hive (careful: not into the air!) just after shaking in the bees. All the bees are new to the hive, no territoriality has yet been established so the bees see the queen at first as just another bee and never attack her. However, this comment only applies to new packages. Never attempt to do this when installing a queen in any sort of established colony - they will kill her immediately. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:23:32 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Queen size? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The queen will swell up considerably when her ovaries become active. They are usually laying within 3-5 days and should be full sized by then. If not then you might have a bone to pick with your breeder. ---------- > From: Brett D Bannon > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Queen size? > Date: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 3:37 PM > > Hi all: > > I just received and installed a queen from a reputable breeder. > When comparing the old queen to the new queen that I just purchased I > noticed the old queen to be considerably longer (having a longer thorax). > Will the new queen increase in size once she is starting to lay? Are > older queens naturally larger than young queens? If a queen breeder > sends small queens is it reason to complain or quit using them? > > Brett D. Bannon > bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:10:27 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: Re: Update on uniting colonies - carnage! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" just forget them... anything more you do ... is damaging. don't hope to start new laying: the stuff your bees will most need is food (pollen reserves) at springs... if you have chance there will still be a queen at that time... other way springs is the best time to do what ever you do now. verify in march if there are larvae... for myself I never will unify hives but only move frames,... and this at the end of the season (august) greatings from belgium, Bernard. At 09:45 9/09/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Bill (Hughes), David (Eyre) and Betty (McAdam) > >First of all, many thanks for reponding to my request for advice, >I mulled it over and plucked up enough courage to have a go last >Saturday - here's an update from Monday night's inspection. > >CARNAGE! - Absolute carnage, there must be at least one or two >thousand dead bees lying on the ground in front of the hive along >with the shredded newspaper. A carpet 10" by 14" of little bodies, >all with their tounges extended, stropping in submission? or a >response to being stung to death? What a sad sight - what did I >do wrong? > >At it seems that I have just managed to wipe out half the entire >population of one of my colonies, is there anything I can do to >redress the loss? How about feeding heavily to stimulate the >queen to lay additional eggs as we still have 2 or 3 more weeks >to go before the first frosts begin to bite. > >Cheers, Mike Pheysey. >Oldbury-on-Severn, Bristol, UK >(100 miles west of London) >mikeph@bri.hp.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------- > > ********************************************************************* * Bernard Heymans bheymans@informix.com * * Informix Bruxelles -32-2 - 711 11 30 * * Support Contract Specialist * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:14:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: FW: "High" risk space mission with large plutonium load This sort of posting shouldn't happen. Whether we agree or disagree with Mr. Krell's opinions on this matter, he shouldn't promote his unrelated interests on Bee-L, no matter what they are nor how important he considers them. It's no different from advertising. On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 22:26:00 +0002 "Krell, Rainer (REUS)" writes: >Dear concerned all, > >The following is for your information and if you consider it >worthwhile it >is also for your participation, further distribution or at least your >own >awareness. Whether all the details are correct I cannot guarantee, >but the >fact alone of sending another spacecraft with a large load of >Plutonium into >space is enough reason for concern - not out of anti-technology >sentiment >(as is often argued by the pro-nuclear proliferation side), but out of >simple safety concerns, particularly when there are other (just as >high-tech) solutions available. > >Regards > >Rainer Krell > ---------- > >The mission is called Cassini and intends to explore the rings around >Saturn >a.o.. > >In Italian, a casino is a whore house and "fare casini" means making a >big >mess. Accidental? > >The speed of the space craft at its most critical point (leaving earth >or >reentering and burning up in its atmosphere) near earth is supposed to >be >711.666 Miles per minute. If you believe in numerical symbology this >means >"playing dice (gambling - casino) with the devil". Accidental? > >Accidental, accident or not, puns aside. > >No big deal if this would be just an ordinary space mission; but the >payload >is a Saturn explorer with 72 lbs of plutonium on board. The published >risk >analysis seems highly understated if considering case histories and >keeps >changing; and the worst case scenario is that enough Plutonium is >distributed in the earth atmosphere to cause lung cancer in every >human >being; no speculation on what it might do to the rest of nature. > >The deal can supposedly be avoided by a few years' delay for >redesigning >the spacecraft with solar panels. No risk versus high risk? > >Are we that much in a rush or willing to gamble with a saved billion >against >trillions of dollars of damages to risk global health (i.e. possibly >more >Plutonium released than during all nuclear testing combined) for just >a >little bit more of scientific knowledge? OR? > >For more information read the attachment >Cassini.doc< or check >http://www.lovearth.org/ > >What can we do? For suggestions see the attachment >todonext.doc< > >"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is >to >survive." Albert Einstein > >Your help and awareness will make a difference > >Rainer > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:53:47 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: finding eggs (was desease) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doesn't sound like foul brood to me. With foul brood there is a brown smelly soup in place of the larva and that's what's stringy. If you have white well-defined larvae they sound healthy with the exception of the mite problem. On the subject of finding eggs, It's hard to do until you've done it once. They're tiny and in light colored comb they're well camoflouged. Eyesight and lighting are important. Once you've seen eggs and know exactly what you're looking for it's a little easier. The tiny brood you describe sounds encouraging, indicating that there has been laying done within the past 2-4 days. Finding eggs is an absolutely essential skill for new beekeepers to master. In my opinion it is the most basic mandatory inspection task. I always look for eggs when I open a box. The reason finding eggs is important is that a good pattern of eggs is proof that your queen was present and laying within the past day or so. I rarely take the time to find a queen if there is a good egg pattern. And if there isn't, then I have good reason to hunt her down. The very first thing I teach my 4-H kids about inspecting a hive is how to find eggs and why it's important. I have gone a whole season without seeing the queen in some hives but remained confident in her presence and health because the egg pattern was always well configured and extensively developed. Finding the queen is sometimes necessary, but can be time consuming and frustrating. And you still need to find eggs to know she is doing well. If neccesary, get some strong cheap reading glasses and let them lay in the bottom of your veil under your chin until you are ready to look for eggs. Then you can grasp them through the netting and put them on for a moment to look at the cells and then drop them back into the folds of the veil. (I resorted to this just this year. It's a sign of middle age I guess.) Michael ---------- > From: Elizabeth M. Bowles > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: desease > Date: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 2:20 PM > > More of the possible missing queen story....... I looked and it appears > that there is fresh larva,(very small) but not standing on end like some > had mentioned, but rather just tiny little curled around larva in the > bottom of many cells. Mabey I just could not see well enough to see fresh > eggs. This was in the box that the original queen was in and mabey still > in. > > Now, in the box 2 above that one there is the oversized cells with large > larva. Per Dr. R's advise I check to see if they were large with red eyes > by picking them out. Well........ a few just popped out and did not appear > to have red eyes, I do believe there were a few mites in them though. > But..... most of them were a gooyee mesh that was kind of stringy and this > made me worried about AFB. The cells did not look like those in my books. > they looked well put together, just big. > > I'm thinking of just trashing the top box and trying to save the bottom > two.....Please help! Have I come this far to loose my hive? Beekeeping is > my relaxation in this busy life I live. > > Sincerely, > > Elizabeth M. Bowles > elizabeth@ctwok.com > Missouri, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:54:15 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Sugar Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Conrad and all The cheapest I have found here (in St. Catharines near Niagara Falls, Ontario) is about $1.50 per 2 kg bag, which works out to $0.34 per Pound. Even at Price Club, it is only marginally less unfortunately. Maybe someone else has found a better price?? Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ---------- > From: Conrad Sigona > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Sugar Prices > Date: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 4:07 PM > > I expect to feed my bees sucrose this fall and have been been looking > around for cheap sugar. I will need about 500 lbs dry weight. Better > I live within a 2 hour drive of the border. Would one of our Canadian > BEE-l subscribers let me know what sugar costs in Canada? It might be > well worth my trip. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:02:39 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Day Subject: Re: Sugar Prices sign 0ff bee-l ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:04:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Sugar Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit um..is it REALLY that difficult??? ---------- > From: John Day > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Sugar Prices > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 1:02 PM > > sign 0ff bee-l ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:24:32 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Old questions and new beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Just catching up on the past few days. I get BEE-L in digest format and for some reason as yet unbeknownst to me LISTSERV has been putting BEE-L on hold, two days in a row now. Don't know why but I'm workin' on it. Rest assured, no posts are lost they are just held until an administrator frees them up. However LISTSERV then processes them (at least in the digest) in reverse chronological order. I guess that's fine for our Chinese subscribers :) The "same old questions" thread is itself a same old issue. The proposed solution I liked best (partly because it was my suggestion :) was to reach a consensus on one or two texts, and when the same old question was asked again we could point the newbee to the chapter and verse in the agreed upon text. You can see the problems here. First, consensus amongst beekeepers is an oxymoron. How's that list of texts comin' Adam? I s'pect Adam's very good idea is coming along, but he has a day job too, which is my second point, someone has to take the time to do the work. FAQ? Great idea! Who'll tie the bell on the old cat's tail? I attempted to coordinate a group effort to filter the voluminous logs into more manageable files by topic, but again I got way laid by my day job. (some threads DID get condensed, thanks to those who helped and apologies that I never followed through). Furthermore, the exercise of condensing the logs convinced me that the information was already there in texts and what I (we) were trying to do was author a book. In the meantime, while I was writing this a staff member realized why LISTSERV has been holding BEE-L. The list is currently configured to allow 50 posts a day. If/when that threshold is hit, LISTSERV holds the list. Does this tell you something? How many BEE-Lers does it take to change a light bulb? I have been a staunch advocate of hands off management of this list, but it truly is getting out of hand!!! PLEASE FOLKS: 1) Keep the posts related to bees! No 'Plutonium in space'! No flames, counter flames, counter-counter flames or retorts. If it ain't bees take it off-list. 2) Keep requoting other's materials to a minimum. If you don't know how to edit quoted material, well LEARN! 3) No binary attachments! If you've got a binary, tell us where it is. If we want it, we'll find it. Aaron Morris - longing for the days when BEE-L taught me stuff. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. and or Marion S. Hills" Subject: Re: Reflections on my first year with the bees (long!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thoroughly enjoyed your story about your experience so far. I am a second year beekeeper who lost both hives over the winter of 95-6 to what may have been the dreaded varroa mite ... or maybe I left them too little food. I don't know ... my mentor died! I went back at this past Spring and have right now a weak hive and a very strong hive. Requeened the weak hive and now see the first new brood cells. But I'm afraid I may be too late to get a new program off the ground in the weak hive. Feeding them with those black plastic in-hive feeders works like a champ! The bees love a mix of 2/3 sugar and 1/3 water. They'll consume a gallon of this mix in a week in a strong hive! I found that owning a good pair of Better Bee gloves and the one-piece pullover/veil makes the beekeeper much happier because he is not going to be stung. When they really really really want to sting somebody they go and sting my yellow lab who likes to watch me do my bees. Jeff Hills Dorset, VT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:52:51 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joan Evans Subject: Science Advisory Board being formed Comments: To: members@scienceboard.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Colleague, A worldwide panel of scientific and medical experts is being formed to voice their opinions on a wide variety of topics related to new technologies used in research and clinical applications. Manufacturers of research products, laboratory equipment, medical devices and pharmaceuticals rely on the input of the Board for insights into how their products can be better designed to meet the needs of end-users. Perspectives are being sought from those with hands-on experience in all facets of the life science and medical professions. Board members will convene electronically on a regular basis to participate in online conferences, surveys, and discussions addressing issues of importance to their individual areas of investigation and/or clinical specialties. Your participation on the Board will be held in strict confidence, and you will be compensated for your time. If you wish to receive additional details on some of the topics currently being considered, and the specific areas of expertise needed, please visit http://www.scienceboard.net or feel free to contact me and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. Sincerely, Joan Evans Membership Secretary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:29:07 +0000 Reply-To: elevi@aristotle.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi &/or Jan Townsley Subject: Re: bee blowers and queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I > wondered whether she might just fly back into the hive along with the other > bees? Are there techniques to minimize the chances of loss? > > Any replies will be appreciated, > Stan Stan, I sometimes use blowers and usually use excluders so I don't have the problem of lost queens but: one technique would be to use a stand in front of your hive that directs the "blown" bees to land on or near the landing board. This also minimizes the number of bees in the air. A stand looks sort of like a tv tray with a piece of sheet metal going down one of the pairs of legs. Another thing to consider is whether one ought to be pulling honey so close to brood anyway. Ed ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 07:56:42 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Decline in new beekeepers (was Oldies need newbees) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I had the opportunity to hear Dr. H.R. Shimanuki speak in August at a seminar presented by the Southern Adirondack Beeleepers Association (blantant SABA plug) hosted at Betterbee in Greenwich, NY. Dr. Shimanuki addressed the alarming decline in beekeeping, which can be chalked up to "lies, damn lies and statistics". If you look at the stastics over the past 6 or 7 decades you will see a DRASTIC decline in the number of beekeepers between the 50s and today. However, what the figures don't show is that somewhere in that time span (I admit to poor notes here so I can't give the exact date but my feeble memory seems to recall it was the 80s) the bean counters/statistic takers decided that they would only count beekeepers if they had more than 5 (or 10 - feeble memory again) hives! So when that decision was made, VIOLA! there was a drastic drop in beekeepers! And as Andy will tell you those government people don't lie ;) It's true beekeeping isn't as populous as it used to be, but then again neither is agriculture in general. However things aren't as drastic as the "numbers" show and judging by the growth in this list alone, I doubt there is much to worry about. Keep them cards and letters comin'! Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 05:47:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: how to store wax foundation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, I looked in the archives and found no answer to my question so I guess it isn't a newbie question. :-) What is the best way to store *unused* foundation until next season? I have a lot of cut comb foundation and a fair amount of brood foundation. I am concerned that over the coming months bugs will find it make it unusable come next Spring. I have seen moth larva chew through plastic food bags to get at food in my closets. I don't trust that wrapping the foundation plastic will stop the little critters. Suggestions? bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: bob-bee@pobox.com first year beekeeper, 2 colonies kc2wz@intercall.net (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: Resistance is futile ... -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 22:49:50 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Uniting with sugar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of the threads on Bee-L lately has been about uniting colonies. I would like to pass on a method I and others in this area (Southern Oreg= on) use. When working colonies I carry a spray bottle of sugar syrup con= taining a few drops of mint extract. (Usually spearmint, as it is usuall= y cheapest!) When I find a bad colony, (Poor queen, no queen) I will put it on top of = a good colony that perhaps needs more bees. The bad colony, during inspe= ction for why it is bad (colonies with laying workers are shaken out on = the ground, disease is treated and not united!) is misted with the syrup.= The good colony that I add it to has the lid removed, the top of the = box and the bees there are misted and the bad box is simply placed on top= . If I want to make nukes, I will lightly mist each frame of bees as I put= them in the nuk box. The frames can come from several colonies, allowin= g much more flexability in this process. It seems that as the bees clean each other up the scent of the extract = overpowers the hive scent and changes it enough to allow the bees to get= on as one colony without difficulty. Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 20:29:52 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: bee blowers and queens In-Reply-To: <199709090601.DAA12870@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Stan Sandler wrote: Donald you mentioned that you used a bee blower in some years without queen excluders. Did you find that some queens were lost in the blowing? Hi Stan! I am sure we did lose some queens in the years when we were not using excluders. It did not seem to cause serious problems, and it may even have had a good side. The colony would normally raise a new queen itself and we have always found that new queens winter better and produce better in the next year. The loss can be minimized by taking a quick look at the combs. If they are completely capped over there is not much chance of the queen being there. Since at that time we harvested all the combs at once late in the year the top boxes seldom contained brood and were usually capped. Queen excluders are a real plus in our operation and enable us to harvest combs early in the season which are only partially capped. They are easy to uncap and can be used a second time which reduces the equipment cost and the storage required. Best regards, Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:41:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Queen size? New queens are smaller untill they get up to speed which won't happen unless theirs a good flow going on.. Don't give up on her untill this flow has been going on for 30 days at which time you should have fresh eggs to emerging activity plus an increase in her size. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at On Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:37:21 -0600 Brett D Bannon writes: >Hi all: > > I just received and installed a queen from a reputable breeder. >When comparing the old queen to the new queen that I just purchased I >noticed the old queen to be considerably longer (having a longer >thorax). Will the new queen increase in size once she is starting to >lay? Are older queens naturally larger than young queens? If a queen >breeder sends small queens is it reason to complain or quit using >them? > >Brett D. Bannon >bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:25:53 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Sugar Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > > um..is it REALLY that difficult??? > > ---------- > > From: John Day > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > Subject: Re: Sugar Prices > > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 1:02 PM > > > > sign 0ff bee-l Yes it is if you have never done it before. Why not email him a short note on how to do it since it is that easy. It took me months to figure out how to subscribe to a newsgroup and only stumbled on it when I inadvertantly right clicked and, shazam, there it was. Yet I downloaded all the info Netscape had on newsgroups. I was overloaded with info, and never found the requirement to *right* click. But, again, this is one reason I enjoy the list. We all make fools of ourselves from time to time. Most of the time we get away with it. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:04:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: The Bankses Subject: Re heating hives in severe winter climates Comments: To: cspacek@flash.net This issue was addressed in American Bee Journal a few months ago. Jerry Hayes, who writes "The Classroom" column, says that although it is possible, it is rarely economical to heat a beehive based on the retail price of honey. He further adds that healthy honey bees provided with adequate honey stores can withstand the very severe winters in North America. And if heat is added, the bees become more active and eat more honey, among other things. Wahkon On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 23:25:36 -0500 "Curtis L. Spacek" writes: >has anyone ever tried heating hives in severe winter climates?It seems >to me that 2 or 3 small light bulbs (christmas lights?) behind a >hardware cloth cover, to keep the bees from getting burnt,would raise >the temp of the hive sufficiently for the bees to utilize their honey >stores through out the hive.It probably wouldnt cost more than a >dollar >per hive to power the lights all winter.they could be wrapped in foil >to >maintain a dark interior.solar battery chargers for remote areas. >its bound to be cheaper than mail order apiaries!!! > its one of those newbee thoughts that >happened > while watching the bees, and swelling >less these days. > garth, cant get mail to you still trying > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:00:11 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Update on uniting colonies - carnage! In-Reply-To: <199709090845.BAA03280@palrel3.hp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Sep 97 at 9:45, Mike Pheysey wrote: > CARNAGE! - Absolute carnage, there must be at least one or two > thousand dead bees lying on the ground in front of the hive along > with the shredded newspaper. A carpet 10" by 14" of little bodies, > all with their tounges extended, stropping in submission? or a > response to being stung to death? What a sad sight - what did I do > wrong? > > At it seems that I have just managed to wipe out half the entire > population of one of my colonies, is there anything I can do to > redress the loss? How about feeding heavily to stimulate the queen > to lay additional eggs as we still have 2 or 3 more weeks to go > before the first frosts begin to bite. It's very difficult trying to keep track of every question that one answers. I don't understand the extended tongues, and so many dead bodies. On uniting a hive it is rare to have so many dead bees, I am suspicious and would suggest other problems. As to increased feeding, IMHO it is too late in the season to make a major difference to the hive population. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:00:13 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: desease In-Reply-To: <21232817100617@ctwok.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Sep 97 at 16:20, Elizabeth M. Bowles wrote: > see well enough to see fresh eggs. This was in the box that the > original queen was in and mabey still in. > > Now, in the box 2 above that one there is the oversized cells with > large larva. Per Dr. R's advise I check to see if they were large > with red eyes by picking them out. Well........ a few just popped > out and did not appear to have red eyes, I do believe there were a > few mites in them though. But..... most of them were a gooyee mesh > that was kind of stringy and this made me worried about AFB. The > cells did not look like those in my books. they looked well put > together, just big. Sounds like regular drone brood to me! When it's in the larvae stage it is soft and gooey, but then we don't usually test it. Provided it's white I wouldn't worry. Do your supers have drone foundation that you are unaware of? ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:00:12 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Sugar Prices In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Sep 97 at 15:07, Conrad Sigona wrote: > I live within a 2 hour drive of the border. Would one of our > Canadian BEE-l subscribers let me know what sugar costs in Canada? > It might be well worth my trip. We are buying bulk sugar, 40kgs or about 90lbs for $32 CDN. That translates to .355 per lbs. Or .26 per lbs US, hardly worth the drive. This is thanks to Sugar price fixing, but then we can't complain if it keeps up the price of honey!!! ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:13:37 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: newbees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have learned a lot from and because of newbees. They tend to question the why of things and because of that they sometimes come up with a different approach to doing things. I have been coaching a newbee this year and already he has come up with some ideas that I intend to test next season. The other way they help me to learn is sometimes they ask questions that I don't have a ready answer for and I have to dig out an answer. By the way my newbee friend harvested my honey for me this year because I broke my ankle just a week before harvest. When I thanked him, he brushed it off and a learning experience. We all need more good friends like that. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@cdc.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:29:09 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Queen size? In-Reply-To: <19970909.163722.11958.0.bbannon@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Sep 97 at 16:37, Brett D Bannon wrote: > I just received and installed a queen from a reputable breeder. > When comparing the old queen to the new queen that I just purchased > I noticed the old queen to be considerably longer (having a longer > thorax). > Will the new queen increase in size once she is starting to lay? > Are > older queens naturally larger than young queens? If a queen breeder > sends small queens is it reason to complain or quit using them? Queen size is very dependant on the feeding supplied by the bees while in the early stages of cell building. We have noted over the years how the size of the queen also affects her performance and longevity, to the point that we now have drastically reduced the amount of cells that our bees have to raise. We have noted some Southern breeders advertising (articles) where they add 120 cells per breeder hive. We find that 45 produced far superior queens. Other points to ponder. New queens have possibly only just come into lay. Therefore the bees have only just started feeding to bring her into egg laying condition. I would watch them carefully over a period of a couple of weeks, if her size (length) does not improve, then expect superscedure early in the spring. As to what can be done. Not much, it's still very much 'buyer beware', don't shop there again!!! ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Phone 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:21:00 CDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Otto, Warren" Subject: Re: Sugar Prices This is not a constant price however this week the local super markets have 10 kg (22 lbs.) for $5.99 CDN. This works out to $0.27/lb. CDN (approximately $0.19 US). Of course you are only limited to one bag at this price but I get my wife to buy a bag, my parents, etc., or I stop at a number of stores on the way home until I have enough. Unless you live in northern Minnesota or North Dakota however a drive up to Winnipeg may not be worth the trip. Warren Otto ---------- From: Ian Watson To: BEE-L Subject: Re: Sugar Prices Date: September 10, 1997 12:54 Hi Conrad and all The cheapest I have found here (in St. Catharines near Niagara Falls, Ontario) is about $1.50 per 2 kg bag, which works out to $0.34 per Pound. Even at Price Club, it is only marginally less unfortunately. Maybe someone else has found a better price?? Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies ---------- > From: Conrad Sigona > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Sugar Prices > Date: Tuesday, September 09, 1997 4:07 PM > > I expect to feed my bees sucrose this fall and have been been looking > around for cheap sugar. I will need about 500 lbs dry weight. Better > I live within a 2 hour drive of the border. Would one of our Canadian > BEE-l subscribers let me know what sugar costs in Canada? It might be > well worth my trip. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:24:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: State Fair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone feel like sharing knowledge today? I am considering entering some honey in the state Fair. Probally don't have a chance since what I have to enter has not been processed in any special way. Does anyone have any special methods for getting an entry ready? Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:02:52 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Sugar Prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: Yes! Food Lion Chain Stores (their brand) 5 lbs/$1.89. Now watch the price of sugar go up! Good luck Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:59:48 -0400 Reply-To: alwine@xensei.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert W Needham Subject: Re: Reflections on my first year with the bees (long!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian: Thanks for sharing with us about the "best beginner's story" I have read. I would like your permission to put your story on my Honey bee Web Site, with or without your name. Please reply privately on this to: alwine@xensei.com or awneedham@juno.com Thanks, -- Al Needham * Scituate,MA * USA "MailTo:alwine@xensei.com" Cerberus-Three Sites In One HoneyBees-LottoLand-Doktor Finkle http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 18:56:44 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ali Alowaid Subject: Protecting honey from crystallization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does Any body knows how to protect the honey from being crystallized, without losing its healing properties ? Regards, Somay ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 23:02:58 +0900 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Queen size? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I just received and installed a queen from a reputable breeder. >When comparing the old queen to the new queen that I just purchased I >noticed the old queen to be considerably longer (having a longer thorax). > Will the new queen increase in size once she is starting to lay? Are >older queens naturally larger than young queens? If a queen breeder >sends small queens is it reason to complain or quit using them? Queen bees frequently arrive looking small as they have not received the attention and food they will from their hive attendants. She will increase in size when well fed and possibly decrease in size again over winter when not laying. Give her a season before you judge. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: desease Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Elizabeth Exactly what do you mean when you say you are thinking of trashing the top box? If for some reason the brood is not viable, the hive will sort it out for themselves, removing dead larvae and refilling with honey when available. Hives have a marvellous ability to respond to changing circumstances. You may be getting a little over-anxious. My advice is to sit back and relax. Betty McAdam >More of the possible missing queen story....... I looked and it appears >that there is fresh larva,(very small) but not standing on end like some >had mentioned, but rather just tiny little curled around larva in the >bottom of many cells. Mabey I just could not see well enough to see fresh >eggs. This was in the box that the original queen was in and mabey still >in. > >Now, in the box 2 above that one there is the oversized cells with large >larva. Per Dr. R's advise I check to see if they were large with red eyes >by picking them out. Well........ a few just popped out and did not appear >to have red eyes, I do believe there were a few mites in them though. >But..... most of them were a gooyee mesh that was kind of stringy and this >made me worried about AFB. The cells did not look like those in my books. >they looked well put together, just big. > >I'm thinking of just trashing the top box and trying to save the bottom >two.....Please help! Have I come this far to loose my hive? Beekeeping is >my relaxation in this busy life I live. > >Sincerely, > >Elizabeth M. Bowles >elizabeth@ctwok.com >Missouri, USA > > HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Update on uniting colonies - carnage! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mike, Even if the uniting procedure has triggered an attack response from the hives, they may still be able to pick up the pieces. It would be interesting to know however why the uniting was not peacefully accomplished and you have not given enough detail for that. Did you carry out the action when the bees were flying or at dusk? Were both hives queenright? Did you smoke lightly or heavily? Did you have to move one hive to another site in the same apiary? Are you mixing black bees with other types (the black bees are said to have a greater ability to distinguish their own queen)? Did you open the hive after uniting them or leave for at least 7 days to settle? Did you punch airholes through the newspaper to let hive odour mingle? Was the newspaper thick enough to allow at least 24 hours before break-through? Above all, do not give up on the uniting procedure. It is too useful a tool for strengthening weak hives and solving problems to abandon. Beekeeping is the art of working with the instinctive behaviour evolved by bees. Bees working in accordance with their instincts are easy to manage but they cannot be forced to go against their own pattern without pain. If you can list the steps and the bees response, experienced beekeepers may be able to pinpoint where the bees detected everything was not as it should be. I do not know your climate well enough to judge whether feeding would do more good than harm. Betty McAdam >First of all, many thanks for reponding to my request for advice, >I mulled it over and plucked up enough courage to have a go last >Saturday - here's an update from Monday night's inspection. > >CARNAGE! - Absolute carnage, there must be at least one or two >thousand dead bees lying on the ground in front of the hive along >with the shredded newspaper. A carpet 10" by 14" of little bodies, >all with their tounges extended, stropping in submission? or a >response to being stung to death? What a sad sight - what did I >do wrong? > >At it seems that I have just managed to wipe out half the entire >population of one of my colonies, is there anything I can do to >redress the loss? How about feeding heavily to stimulate the >queen to lay additional eggs as we still have 2 or 3 more weeks >to go before the first frosts begin to bite. > >Cheers, Mike Pheysey. >Oldbury-on-Severn, Bristol, UK >(100 miles west of London) >mikeph@bri.hp.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------- > > HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Help - Pollen Bound Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" re excess pollen stored in frames, I frequently remove these from hives where they are limiting laying space for the queen. The frames are frozen to kill wax moth and then stored until I have a swarm to feed or there is a shortage in the hives. The amount of pollen used varies with the amount of brood raised but on pollen rich sources the amount coming in can choke the frames. My hives normally retreat into the bottom brood box over winter, leaving a full depth super above. As the weather warms up,they raid the stores and transfer down to where the brood is being raised. Betty McAdam >I need some help and suggestions on a particular problem I have with a >couple of my hives. Some of my hives have a very large amount (6 to 10 >frames) of frames with pollen, mostly in the lower brood chamber (I use two >standard brood chambers all year round). In years past, as the bees moved >up, these pollen frames were particularly susceptible to becoming moldy - >and occasionally the pollen gets so hard that it has to be cleaned out and >thrown away. There is very little honey stored in these pollen frames, and >no brood. Basically, these frames seem to be of little use for the bees in >getting thru the winter. I need some suggestions on how to stop these >pollen frames from becoming a moldy nightmare by next spring (should I >remove them and "store" them somehow and put them back in the spring?), and >depending on those answers, what should I do with a double brood chamber >hive that essentially is using just the upper chamber for brood and honey >storage at this time of the year. I am in western Oregon, just southwest of >Portland. Our weather is mostly rainy in the winter and in the 40 degree >Fahrenheit range. We get freezing weather a couple weeks worth. > >Thanks in advance for your help. > >Rick Grossman >rgrossman@nutclub.com > > HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Protecting honey from crystallization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ali Alowaid wrote: > > Does Any body knows how to protect the honey from being crystallized, > without losing its healing properties ? > > Regards, > > Somay I have no documentation but most feel that if the honey is only heated to 120F (some 140F) that you do not destroy the flavor, yeast or quality. I know that when you make yogurt it is heated to at least 110F and it does not kill the culture or yeasts. Al Welk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:00:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: IRS Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Brett, As long as you are trying to make money on the activity, you can claim your expenses on either schedule F (Farm income and loss) or schedule C (Business income and loss). Somebody wrote that you have to make money 3 out of 5 years to be a business not a hobby. This is an IRS guide line and not part of U.S. Law. You can get Publication 334 from the IRS site: http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/plain/cover.html. The file is in pdf format so if you don't have pdf reader you will need to down load the file. Lots of businesses have lost money for 20 years or more. (Farmers routinely go in the hole every year, this is offset by the gain in equity on the assets so the farmer stays liquid, but still they don't show a taxable profit for years.) Other considerations: 1) If you are in "business" you will also need a sales tax number from you state. This will allow you to buy supplies with out having to pay sales tax on the supplies. You will have to collect sales tax on your retail sales and give this money to the state. ( in most cases). 2) You don't have to have employees to have an EIN. This number is obtained by filling out a form called SS-4 and filing with the IRS. In effect, the EIN is just an alias to have with the IRS for your business. You will still be responsible for taxes, but for banking you can use this number instead of your own social security number for setting up accounts and you can also use the EIN when dealing with the state on sales taxes. The EIN does not mean you are a corporation or that you will have employees, it just gives your business a different identifying number to the government so the bookkeeping is easier if you get questioned about taxes. Good Luck, Richard L. Barnes CPA At 05:28 PM 9/9/97 -0600, you wrote: >At what point does all the dollars that I spend having so much fun >raising honey bees turn into a potential deduction on a Business Form for >my yearly taxes. Heaven forbid that this be a newbee question! > >Brett D. Bannon >Folsom, NM USA >bbannon@juno.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:10:40 +-800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alan Norris Subject: Re: how to store wax foundation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCBFC8.B7644EE0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBFC8.B7644EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I store mine in brown wrapping paper, the wax moth are not interested in clean foundation Alan Norris ---------- From: Bob Billson[SMTP:kc2wz@intercall.net] Sent: Thursday, 11 September 1997 17:47 To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: how to store wax foundation? Hi all, I looked in the archives and found no answer to my question so I guess it isn't a newbie question. :-) What is the best way to store *unused* foundation until next season? I have a lot of cut comb foundation and a fair amount of brood foundation. I am concerned that over the coming months bugs will find it make it unusable come next Spring. I have seen moth larva chew through plastic food bags to get at food in my closets. I don't trust that wrapping the foundation plastic will stop the little critters. Suggestions? bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: bob-bee@pobox.com first year beekeeper, 2 colonies kc2wz@intercall.net (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: Resistance is futile ... -8|||} (/ \) ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBFC8.B7644EE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii0OAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9sb2d5AFNNVFAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHAAAACdEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9s b2d5JwACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOkJFRS1MQENOU0lCTS5BTEJBTlkuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADBjUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEAIQAAAFJFOiBob3cgdG8gc3RvcmUgd2F4IGZvdW5kYXRpb24/AJULAQWAAwAOAAAA zQcJAAwAFgAKACgABQA2AQEggAMADgAAAM0HCQAMABYACAAZAAUAJQEBCYABACEAAAA5NDcwRUFB QkI4MkJEMTExQTBFMzQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADtBgEDkAYAxAUAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAA CwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAWqymhb+8AR4AcAABAAAAIQAAAFJFOiBob3cgdG8gc3RvcmUg d2F4IGZvdW5kYXRpb24/AAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8v4Wmo6vqcJUruBHRoONERVNUAAAAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAATAAAAYW5sZWNAaWluZXQubmV0LmF1AAADAAYQDtVG QgMABxAsAwAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASVNUT1JFTUlORUlOQlJPV05XUkFQUElOR1BBUEVSLFRIRVdB WE1PVEhBUkVOT1RJTlRFUkVTVEVESU5DTEVBTkZPVU5EQVRJT05BTEFOTk9SUklTLS0tLS0tLS0t LUZST006QgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAEAEAAA8BAAAswcAAExaRnUt/85i/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJ AgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUC gAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUcUL8mMAQCBJIBPABbA4ZSBtC4AbUAuAIGIFA2B3A6B3cmFwcCkL gGcgCrBwBJAsIER0aBtQd2F4G2Bv7R1QIArAG1BuHeAbsRPQGxYQE8FkCoUbwWNsZQMDkQIQdW5k YXRp9wIgCoUKhUEY8QewBbAFEIJzCotsaTE4MALR4GktMTQ0DfAM0CPjuQtZMTYKoANgE9BjBUC+ LSYHCockuwwwJYZGA2GOOicOJYYMgiBCbyqhCQMQbHMCIFtTTVQAUDprYzJ3ekAlHqNjB0BsLhuQ dF0/Jq8nvQZgAjAo7yn7VGjVCHBzIIB5HTAxGtAGYBsFMBPgYgSQMcA5OTdhMcA3OjQ3LR8nvVQG by9fKfxFRS1MQABDTlNJQk0uQQBMQkFOWS5FRMZVM08uLnViaiXBNW/tKftoHBAdQG8bBR2SIEjm PyDsIuYzNiSHGkUlhuxIaR4QKyAsIOwa8BWgfG9rCYAbsh1SCsARcGn+dgeRAHBDgCBDHlFEkQPg wzJxPUFteSBxClATwG8gsRsAPVAa8GdGUQQgaaJ0H0ZzbicFQGEeUA0H0GIIkEY3LiA6LfopIOxX EYAegQQgHVIyYK8TwB2BRiA9RyogYHURsPRkKiA5ICBgIKADIBuQlngFQBGwYStBPyAa4D8KhRGA RGBIYRWgBUBvZv0f0HUFQAWgBtBNGkSiSHD2ZgtwBcBhBGBN0VAyG/E7BHAgOS5Cp1JgUKFuY+8E kUNxHVBK0W9EYEXBHWEvULEcogRgAjBoBCBidf5nBCAD8CsgIDALgEOBBUD/AMBDYEd4TKIBoB/w UKIeQf1OQlMTUByhVAZCp0+TEbDnCfAdxAtgcnZIcBFwB9G/HVADYFdAHgALUUZxYyAx2VMxYmFX UT1BZxHAHhC/BUBecxvBRhAKhR/gbxGxNnNJgBrhZAIgSEF0cv9MwGHBSsIcVx1STSld9leD/RsR cB1CCoUjQAJAWZIFEG8CQASQYSI6sGdfQEZzc/c+vWiGBuBiCoUmhyrJHTDgS0MyV1poh2vvaIRb E+ALcGw7IGkRLTJgZcRAcCrQb3guULEKhfcjsBGgBUB5IAAFwG4RQ2D/MhAdEhHgFYIDAAeRcV9o hccr3xHAZ74oXFxohQXg0C1ET1MdMHkIYB/Q/wBwSEEjQE+xA/Ad8UeAYTF+WXZEdsgIYB6Bd4JO 8C+TScYDMHt8ekA4LXHf0kwLgHV4OyBSB5AEAHcBkFTxSvJmUIADEBtQLtN9YHqcLTh6QVwYgnS1 /i96n4Cfga+Cv3UgSc0/Py9ATyWVCoUVMQCIIAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwIJnFVYW/vAFA AAgwIJnFVYW/vAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAL27 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCBFC8.B7644EE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 09:39:04 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Re: State Fair MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I am considering entering some > honey in the state Fair. Does anyone have any special methods for > getting an entry ready? > Steven, I used to have a list of articles (not Bee-l archives) that could be requested by e-mail. I'm not sure, but I think it was the Bee-L server that held and distributed these articles. At any rate there were about 40 articles and one of them was how to prepare honey for shows. I understand that this post is not much value to you, but I'm hoping that someone on the list will recognize what I'm talking about and send out the information. Good Luck Rett Thorpe SLC, Utah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:04:42 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Essential Oils. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have just found the time to re-visit James Amrine's site ref. 'Using Essential Oils for.......'. For those who haven't visited it recently, I would suggest a visit. http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/ ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:39:14 +0000 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.Com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Oldtimers need "newbee" questions! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth M. Bowles wrote: > > Dear Michael, > > Thank so much for this posting, I was feeling a little put out by the > message about newbees. Bee-L has been a lifeline to me for beekeeping. > I'm glad to know some of you are there for us. > > I read recently on Bee-L that folks can change there subscription to get > just the more technical stuff from Bee-L, perhaps those that don't want to > hear about all our "newbee" questions and problems could try that way of > getting the Best of Bee-L. Of course this is your deal (not you personally > Michael) and if you all really prefer that we go else wear I will sadly :-( > go. Elizabeth - If you stay on this list long enough, you will see this same issue come up again, I guarantee it. It must have something to do with human nature. I took interest in your statement about this list being "your deal" and "if you all really prefer that we go else wear I will sadly :-( go." First, this is NOT "our" list. It actually belongs to someone/s who has ultimate control over it. The list owner is the one who decides and sets the prospectus of the list, not the list members (contrary to the way some make it sound). It so happens that BEE-L is not a monitored list which means that one can expect a wide range of discussion to take place. I guess you could say that it is self-monitored in a way. While the "purpose" of BEE-L is "for the discussion of research and information concerning the biology of bees. This includes honey bees and other bees (and maybe even wasps). We communicate about sociobiology, behavior, ecology, adaptation/evolution, genetics, taxonomy, physiology, pollination, and flower nectar and pollen production of bees.", according to the list owners, just what is and is not fitting tends to depend on the pulse of the group in their replies to any given post. If the owner of the list was unhappy about this, then I would expect there to be a change and the list to become monitored and that would be that. We would all have to abide by those rules then. We should all be sensitive to the fact that this IS a discussion group about bees and try to keep the talk, bee related. But as far as your "newbee" question not being worthy of the group or the reply "we've been over this before", there is no class separation on the internet. No one is anymore elevated than the other (except in their own minds). Unless someone does something to make the archives easily searchable, all the talk about having been over this ground before is somewhat nonsensical. If someone is tired of the "newbee" questions, let THEM do something about it, not you. I don't recall seeing the sign, "newbees, keep out" when I entered BEE-L. You're doing nothing wrong by asking. There is BestofBee for those who want that format. There is the delete button that works well too. There is the SIGNOFF command that takes care of "newbee" questions for good. And last but not least, you can just ignore those that bug you (like several I'm sure are doing to this post). Having said all this, I am in much favor of "some useability enhancements" as Michael Reddell said. There is alot of good information that gets said and passed on here but once it's been said, it's basically gone into an abyss called the archives, forever to be safely held for those who dare to have enough time and energy to locate the bit of information they are looking for. Kinda like trying to find a word in a dictionary whose words are not in any order. It would also be logical for this list to have an FAQ to help cut down on the redundancy of some questions and to give new subscribers a guideline of all the different avenues and resources available to them just through this group itself where there is a great wealth. Unless others are willing to do something about the problem, there's little room for complaining as I see it. Just a few thoughts. Regards -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.Com http://www.birkey.com http://www.promisechecks.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:40:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lisa Buttonow Subject: second hand equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Folks, I was wondering if there was anyone in the Lower Wisconsin area who was upgrading their bee equipment and wanted to sell their second hand equipment. I would like to set up one or two hives on my roof and am a little bit, umm, impressed, with the price of new equipment. Since this is going to be strictly a hobby, for fun and education, I don't need the newest and latest stuff. I will not be selling the honey or creating any business with it. Thanks for your time. Lisa Buttonow ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:10:00 CST Reply-To: lmb@plantpath.wisc.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: L Buttonow Organization: University of Wisconsin Subject: Second hand equipment Hi Folks: I accidentally erased a reply to this message. If you sent a reply, could you repost to me directly. Thank you. Lisa Buttonow ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:03:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Elizabeth M. Bowles" Subject: Re: desease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Exactly what do you mean when you say you are thinking of trashing the top box? I was going to just chuck it in the trash, but per the suggestin of many in addition to you I will just relax and let the bees do the weeding out. The gooey larva was nice and white and so it seems from what most of you have said that it is just plain old drone larva and not fully developed to the point that I can easily pluck it out in one peice. BTW the Good Dr. R. did not say to look for "red eyes" but rather "pink" and I did notice a very pail pink on some. Thanks all for keeping me calm. :-) I suppose a relaxed nature will come with age and knowledge. :-) The older I get the better I like life. > If for some reason the brood is not viable, the hive will sort it out for > themselves, removing dead larvae and refilling with honey when available. > Hives have a marvellous ability to respond to changing circumstances. You > may be getting a little over-anxious. > > My advice is to sit back and relax. > > Betty McAdam > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:27:18 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: second hand equipment NEW EQUIPMENT IS CLEAN EQUIPMENT I would advice any beginning beekeeper to start with new equipment. A number of beginners I know who started with used equipment had trouble with various maladies (ABF). It may not be that the previous owner knew of the problems but that they medicated and kept the problems at bay. Loosing your bees 2 winters in a row due to disease can cost $100 and be very disheartening. If you start with new equipment you are much less likey to have problems your first year! TWO HIVES ARE BETTER THAN ONE As has been stated before, I you can afford it, starting with two hives provides a better learning setting. You can compare the hive behaviors and at least see that both hives are behaving that way. You can use brood from one hive to supplement a weak hive or a hive that is hopelessly queenless. You have double the chance of experiencing various managment problems. Jim Moore 2nd year - 5 hives Ma. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:41:19 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: 11-Sep-1997 1430 -0400 Subject: any beekeeper around Lowell, MA? Hi, I'm interested in this whole bee keeping thing, and am curious to see what it's all about before making any decisions about whether to pursue the hobby or not. Are there any bee keepers near Lowell, MA who'd be interested in giving me a "tour" sometime? I don't know what else to call it. kim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:20:37 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: any beekeeper around Lowell, MA? Kim, I live in Acton Ma. and work at Digital - ZKO2-03, my dtn is 264-0989. I would be happy to talk about bees any time. I have five hives and would be happy to give you a tour sometime. Regards, Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:36:49 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: IRS Question In-Reply-To: <19970909.172849.11958.6.bbannon@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:28 PM 9/9/97 -0600, Brett D Bannon wrote: >At what point does all the dollars that I spend having so much fun >raising honey bees turn into a potential deduction on a Business Form for >my yearly taxes. Heaven forbid that this be a newbee question! One test is the "income" test. When you have income to offset some of the expenses you should be able to file using the agricultural form. In general answers are not the last word and if you have a real interest you can consult a tax preparer or do a lot of reading. ttul, the OLd Drone ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:15:46 -0700 Reply-To: fdesjard@agr.gouv.qc.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: France Desjardins Organization: MAPAQ Subject: hypoglycaemia and honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good afternoon, I've heard about someone who suffers from hypoglycaemia and she can't eat any sugar. But she says maybe she can eat honey because it's a different sugar. Is that true ? Thank you very much France Desjardins ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:45:32 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mark Falls Subject: is the ultraviolet spectrum visible to bees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, I remember reading somewhere that bees can "see" in the ultraviolet spectrum. Is this true? - - - - - in Dino veritas, mf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:52:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: Wintering Requirement In-Reply-To: <199709100706.EAA18740@bud.peinet.pe.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:06 AM 9/10/97 -0300, Stan Sandler wrote: >Hi Andy and All: You wrote: > >>... One lesson all learn is that bees have nasty >>habits of eating back on brood if the food intake falls below a certain >>level, ... > >But you also wrote that "bees consume only liquids". > >Now I actually did not find that very contradictory, because brood is >probably more liquidy than pollen. I can imagine the bees breaking up the >outer cuticle of the larva and sucking up the juice much as a spider. (Do >they haul out the larval shell afterwards? I can imagine that it might be >less work than breaking it up into drinkable size pieces.) That is how it works.. they dump the larva and if they eat anymore then the liquids I have never seen it. >Anyway, Andy, I was pretty intrigued by the idea of bees DRINKING their >beebread and it has some practical application in how firm one mixes his/her >pollen substitute/extender. So I went to the anatomy section of Hive and >Honeybee today and went over mouthparts and feeding. It never actually says >that bees ONLY use their proboscis for feeding. It is in fact anatomicly >possible for the bees to put something in their mouth without it going >through the proboscis (using the mandibles). Yep, they chew up many things including wood. If they could chunk off food to eat someone would have seen it by now at least in the contents of the gut. The size of the solid food found in the bees gut is measured in microns so what ever they take can flow in with ease as a liquid. >On the other hand, the proboscis is a perfect "sludge" pump for pumping very >thick viscous stuff. It has a hairy tongue pumping up and down inside it to >keep stuff moving and unclogged, and if it does clog, it disassembles very >easily . > >So, I am not really doubting you Andy, but I am wondering how sure you are >that bees ONLY drink. You might even pull our legs sometimes . I sure am not the last word on this or anything else and I have had bees land on my sweaty hands and try to chunk off a hunk of salty skin. Now since they never got the job done I an not be sure if they would have swallowed it or not, but it does make one wonder if bees could not change in time to become real meat eaters. BTW, it hurts, but the pain does not last long. ttul, Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:17:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Larry Morris Organization: AT&T Tridom Subject: novice bee removal story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I enjoyed reading Brian Myers' experiences as a novice beekeeper; I'm in much the same situation, my first year with two hives (came with the new farm I bought!) in North Georgia. Considering yesterday's intimate experiences with the bees, I thought this might be a good time for me to "de-lurk" as well. With only two struggling hives and an empty hive body, I was interested in perhaps catching a swarm (other hives too weak to split). But my pest control guy knew I was looking, and mentioned that he'd had a call for honeybees in the wall of a house...so... (experienced beekeepers now begin to chuckle, recognizing the setup for an embarrassing and painful experience...) Sure, I said, why not. I realized the *right* way to do it was with a bait hive and screen cone, but I didn't want to risk one of my only two hives as a bait hive, so I decided to do it the hard way and go in after them. Got there and met the owners, nice folks with persistent bees. They'd actually had someone clean the combs out before, but they were back (possibly a new swarm?) Second story, no way to get in from inside, bees inside the siding and sheathing board. Donning the trusty bee suit and veil, I climbed the rickety ladder, got siding off, cut the sheathing out (note: electric saber saws tend to upset bees ;-) and pulled it off. A *huge* colony, filling all the space between the studs and overflowing. I had visions of carefully cutting each comb off, examining for the queen, and gently rubberbanding them into frames. Hah. If these weren't "killer bees" they were at least clearly *pissed*. A healthy defensive instinct, I'd say. The bee veil wasn't sufficiently tight. It's possible that NO bee veil is sufficiently tight to stop 200+ kamikaze bees. The job rapidly became: frantically cut comb, drop it into a garbage pail suspended nearby, CAREFULLY climb down the ladder while receiving multiple stings, then RUN, deciding whether to be more afraid of the few bees inside the veil/suit or the many on the outside! I finally loaded as much brood/honeycomb as I could into a cooler and grabbed my tools. I don't think I got the queen, though, the beehive extended up above where I could get the siding off (into the attic?) and I suspect she moved up there. I explained to the couple I'd cut all the comb I could reach, but they may still need an exterminator; I'd had all I could take, with about a dozen+ stings. I deposited the bees + comb rather haphazardly into my waiting brood box at home; the bees were in multiple small clusters, so I suspect I did miss the queen; but I may try giving them a frame of new brood from another hive and see what they can do; I probably got a couple pounds of bees. So anyway, I suppose I'm well-initiated into the joys of beekeeping now! Examining a nice, well-organized frame hive doesn't seem nearly so intimidating at this point. Don't think I'll be volunteering for any more bee extraction efforts soon, though... ;-) Still itching, -Larry Morris hearth@stc.net lam@eng.tridom.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:16:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: is the ultraviolet spectrum visible to bees? In a message dated 97-09-11 15:56:51 EDT, you write: << Greetings, I remember reading somewhere that bees can "see" in the ultraviolet spectrum. Is this true? - - - - - in Dino veritas, mf >> Sure it is how they orient on the sun on a cloudy day by seeing the polarization of the UV which passes through the clouds . Also may flowers look quite different when visualized in the UV range and perhaps the bees key on this as well ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:12:38 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: Queen size? In-Reply-To: <19970909.163722.11958.0.bbannon@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:37 PM 9/9/97 -0600, you wrote: > I just received and installed a queen from a reputable breeder. >When comparing the old queen to the new queen that I just purchased I >noticed the old queen to be considerably longer (having a longer thorax). > Will the new queen increase in size once she is starting to lay? Are >older queens naturally larger than young queens? If a queen breeder >sends small queens is it reason to complain or quit using them? The size of the queen depends on many things, but for sure they shrink in storage and shipment. Small queens that are mated well will do as well and large ones, and your small queen may double in size in a few weeks of feeding and laying. It is possible to make queens bigger or smaller. You can get them so small that most would have a hard time telling them from workers, not a good idea. If you make your own queen cells and want larger queens add a little petrol wax (MOBIL Wax) to the bees wax. This wax has a lower melting point and the bees will make much larger cells depending on the percentage of petrol wax to bees wax. These larger cells will contain more food and produce bigger queens. They will be no better then smaller queens, just bigger. Now if you make those queens too big you will have a hard time getting them in that small hole in the queen cage (the wooden ones) and will have to make some adjustments. (NO ONE IS DOING THIS as far as I know.) ttul, the OLd Drone >Brett D. Bannon >bbannon@juno.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:45:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: any beekeeper around Lowell, MA? Comments: cc: glen@midnight.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 11-Sep-1997 1430 -0400 wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm interested in this whole bee keeping thing, and am curious to > see what it's all about before making any decisions about whether > to pursue the hobby or not. > > Are there any bee keepers near Lowell, MA who'd be interested in > giving me a "tour" sometime? I don't know what else to call it. > > kim Would Plaistow, New Hampshire be too far away? I currently am running 40+ colonies in southern New England and would be more than happy to act as your mentor. I can also tell you about some local clubs and local dealers. call me if your interested. Plaistow is just north of Haverhill about 20 minutes(?) from Lowell, right up 495 to exit 53! Dave verville 603 382-7626 nights ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:40:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Re: Wax Moth Traps Hi ya'll; Following a discussion on preventing Wax Moth damage at our local association meeting I found this tip from Ron Taylor, President of South Carolina and Colleton County Beekeepers: Treatment for Active Hives: (1) Use a 2 liter plastic drink bottle with a one inch diameter hole cut on the curve toward the top of the bottle. (2) Mix one cup granulated sugar, one cup vinegar, one whole banana peeling and eight cups of water. (3) Hang this bottle in the bee yard year round. Replace as needed. Use one bottle for every four hives. Does anyone have another idea for wax moth "traps" that may be affective? Rick Leber, Beekeeping Since 1987 Mobile, Alabama ricks.toy@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:34:19 -0700 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Wax Moth Traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard E Leber wrote: > > Hi ya'll; > > Following a discussion on preventing Wax Moth damage at our local > association meeting I found this tip from Ron Taylor, President of South > Carolina and Colleton County Beekeepers: > > Treatment for Active Hives: > > (1) Use a 2 liter plastic drink bottle with a one inch diameter hole cut > on the curve toward the top of the bottle. > (2) Mix one cup granulated sugar, one cup vinegar, one whole banana > peeling and eight cups of water. > (3) Hang this bottle in the bee yard year round. Replace as needed. Use > one bottle for every four hives. > > Does anyone have another idea for wax moth "traps" that may be affective? What he reccommended is classic for capturing moths so is probably the best. There are variations on the bait to capture coddling moths to protect apples. Good organic method. Thanks for the info. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:09:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Decline in new beekeepers (was Oldies need newbees) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > However things aren't > as drastic as the "numbers" show and judging by the growth in this list > alone, I doubt there is much to worry about. As long as we don't beat them to death for asking questions! This is good news! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:26:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: is the ultraviolet spectrum visible to bees? In-Reply-To: <970911171225_2084910513@emout20.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I remember reading somewhere that bees can "see" in the ultraviolet > spectrum. Is this true? > >> > Sure it is how they orient on the sun on a cloudy day by seeing the > polarization of the UV which passes through the clouds . Also may > flowers look quite different when visualized in the UV range and perhaps > the bees key on this as well I wonder how good their perception is in the infra red range. Does anyone know? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 18:26:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Newbies or Newbees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT There has been a lot of discussion based on what people thought I said -- rather than what I said. It is amazing how many people read very quickly think they see something, and miss the point. A few did understand, though, and I thank them for their thoughtful contributions. I am concerned about volume on the list and also about the integrity of the archives. I have more to say on this and will post more later after I have had time to re-write the essay on the matter in (probably a vain) hope of not triggering a flood of responses to things I did not say. Anyhow, in the meantime, here is an attempt to clarify the most popular confusions and perhaps salve some wounded feelings: *Newbies*: What I said was that newbies (to our group) asking questions without researching what had already been said on the matter are a causing a problem. It appears that people just subscribe and the next day jump in and ask very basic questions which have been discussed before, simply because they wish to generate live personal discussion -- when they could read a previous one that answers the question. I also said that it was perhaps because they did not know how or where to look (not that they are bad people or not welcome). *Newbees* on the other hand are simply those who are new to bees and many, if not most, newbees and newbies are pretty careful to make sure that they ask questions that count. Of course some newbees are newbies and not all newbies are newbees, if you follow. At any rate I never meant to imply that newbies or newbees are not an essential part of this group. I did indicate though that there needs to be some way to direct them to answers that are already in place . More to follow. Allen