========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:15:51 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Re: Yugo-Carnolian ARS-1 cross Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eugene Makovec wrote >I have one of these ARS-1 colonies. I noticed, too, that they are generally >not agressive -- except when removing honey supers! > >I also noticed immediately that they were light propolisers -- however, they >more than made up for this by waxing everything together. They built comb >between most frames, and even between top & bottom frames, making it >impossible to remove top brood box without tearing up honey and brood comb -- >this, of course, upset their otherwise gently disposition. > I have used vaseline with good effect to stop bees propolising the hive. I am told that vaseline will also stop brace comb building. I have four hives, two treated with vaseline and two not. I will certainly treat the non treated hives this year. The hives treated with vaseline are a treat to work with, no breaking and entering with the hive tool and upsetting the bees. I appreciate from the comments of beekeepers local to me that the cost and time required to vaseline hives can be counterproductive especially if commercial beekeeping is involved. However I am driven by different motives, in that I am a suburban beekeeper and I do everything to make my manipulations as non intrusive on the bees as possible because I have neighbours within 15 metres of the hives. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg 16' 12.8" North Longitude 06 Deg 09' 44.9" West ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:11:05 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: from the end of the world!! In-Reply-To: <34BD1E2B.2AB63592@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable . Should my > "hypothesis" be right, regardless of the origin of the original Spanish > bees, introduction of Egyptian genetic material could have contributed = to > the development of one of the worlds best races of bees, the Iberian. > Based on eight years of experience, I have yet to see a better bee (tha= n > the Iberian). Granted, they are a little feisty; hence my belief that > they may have african genes in them, but they are hard workers and > disease resistant as any other race with which I have worked. I am sur= e > that perhaps you can add some of your expertise to this very important > thread. The good Dr's "hypothesis" would be for the natural development. We know that over the last 100 years, the Italian bee as we now know it = has been a mixing of a few races. It started by using the original Ligur= ian and mixing with the Egyptian bee and also what was called the Holylan= d bee. This is why our Italian is golden when compared to the colour of = the Ligurian. There may even be a mixture of other races in the Italian also. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:06:49 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: origins of bees thread Hi All THis is an interesting topic!! As Dr Rodriguez pointed out, there has been considerable movement of bees in the meditteranean area. There is some mitochondrial DNA work that shows quite a bit of interbreeding between the bee races on either side of the straits of gibralter. This has made an impact of present day italian bees. It is beneficial in that the impact is in mitochondrial DNA, and that means that one is seeing a transplant of the powerhouse of the african bee. The benefits of this are great, with increased 'fuel' efficiency. However I also read somewhere that there are sometime mitochondrial DNA incompatibilities between C (central european) and A (africa) lineage bees. This is not so for A and M (meditteranean) groups. This may explain why crossing say carnolians and italians is not always good, but can be good. There is a chance of incompatibility. The nile bee on the other hand has a lot of italian bee influence within it. Hundreds of thousands of italian queens were imported during british colonial rule 'to improve' local stock. This left a permanent impression in the DNA's of these bees. Walter, on the topic of the african bee reaching the cape. They have been kept there for reasonable time periods. Even over winters. The problem is however a bee racial one. The cape bee can convert there to cape colonies, so they would never reach the cape naturally. The But A.m.intermissa, the north african bee has been kept in spain quite successfully I believe, and it as an A group bee. Maybe onday the AHB will adapt?? Keep well Garth--- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:31:40 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bee lineage - read Brother Adam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There is great insight into the current discussion on bee lineage to be found in Brother Adam's book _In_Search_of_the_Best_Strains_of_Honey_Bee_ (I may have the title a little off from correct). Brother Adam discusses the strengths and weaknesses of the different strains, their origins and nacestry. Good reading, highly recommended! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:25:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: bee feed Comments: To: gmc@vci.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Be very careful of feeding any type of candy or syrup for candy. Many of these contain solids and other additives which can do an number of things to a bees digestive system. Most of these things are bad. In winter bees should have only carbohydrates with as few solids as possible. Undigested solids require cleansing flights and if the weather is bad, the hive becomes soiled, giving rise to all sorts of illnesses for the bees Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: beeman To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 11:51 PM Subject: bee feed >HI all! well i feed my bees suryp from a local candy manufacturing >plant, does anybody know if this is safe?? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 04:38:36 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: Re: from the end of the world!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Garth: Very interesting your motion on the possible evolution of the bee. We wait that in a next future the scientific evidence confirm with made these intelligent hypothesis. We have substantial differences concerning the possibilities and current expansion of the African Bee. In Latin America is thought that afro-bees does not has real possibilities in temperate climate, however in your post seems be deduced the contrary. Clear that your are in Africa and have motives to know the facts. If possible I would like to listen somewhat more on this, for example until where it can arrive the african bee in North America. Until Washington? or Massachusets? Regards Carlos Aparicio At 05:56 PM 14/01/1998 GMT+0200, Garth wrote: >Hi Carlos > >Some of the things you mentioned about african bees were interesting >but clashed with some things I have heard. >......... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:34:15 -0500 Reply-To: kferner@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: kferner Subject: Re: Missing Messages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nobody Nobody wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:44:56 -0800 "Gary C. Lewis" > writes: > >Hello All. > > I am missing messages from this list. Is anyone else having this > >problem? I see replies to messages but the original is not to be > >found. > > > >Gary C. Lewis > >Duke Center, Pa. > > > > Yes. It`s happening to me aswell. What I THINK is going on: > Somebody signed up to this list sends mail to a friend > privately. > That friend is signed up to this list, also. But instead of sending mail > just to their friend, unlike the first friend they send it to the entire > club, so we only get the reply to the first message which was sent > privately. (Sorry if that`s kind of confusing!!) > > -Ben M. Poehlman > Lincoln, Nebraska, USA > Ben32887@juno.com I am no longer getting a digest and am receiving single messages, which I don't want. Please help!! Karen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:36:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Fluvalinate effectiveness? In-Reply-To: <003501bd1f1a$b9a43880$c11399d0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 I think the "effectiveness of fluvalinate" for varroa mite control, has been well proven over the past 10 years of use of Apistan in many, many countries. I don't know from your brief message from what context this statement comes from but the breakdown of fluvalinate today is the same as it always has been. If there is a difference in mite kill following Apistan treatment then you have to look at the treatment regime and then at the biology of the particular mite race in question. The molecule and the product have not altered. Broad statements like this "original article" are easy to make on the net and need to be interpreted with some care. Unfortunately, I don't know the source of this one or why it's being considered. Max Director Vita (Europe) Limited In message <003501bd1f1a$b9a43880$c11399d0@default>, Midnitebee writes >Greetings! >I have received the following information..I emailed the original sender,asking >where he obtained this article...have not had a response...can anyone on the >list make a comment ? >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------------------------------- > >I have read that there has been some doubt about the effectiveness of >Fluvalinate against the Varroa mite in bees. Could this possibly have anything >to do with the fact > that Fluvalinate breaks down very quickly and therefore loses its effectiveness >before the beekeepers get around to using it. How long can Fluvalinate be stored >before it > is used. I read that in 20 days there is a 20-fold decrease in the amount of >undergraded fluvalinate present in any given sample. > Holly-B Apiary >P.O.Box 26 >Wells,Maine 04090-0026 >www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -- Dr Max Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:50:56 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Records of Apis mellifera to Brazil/the Americas Comments: cc: queenbee@gil.com.au trevor's and peter's postings have rekindled my curiosity on the date(s) of early introductions to the new world...does anyone know if the vikings were beekeepers at the time of their vinland settlement in Newfoundland (about a millenium ago)? I too have heard of a date in the 1530's for a presumed (Spanish) introduction, but have not been able to find documentation for this...my 2 editions of "the hive and the honeybee"(1975&1992) do not have the 1963 e.crane reference previously mentioned, could you post it more fully (peter)? (trevor, what response(s) did you get from beebrazil-list, you mentioned something from Portugal?) any further info would bee appreciated, thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:50:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Puerto Rico? it's been about 10 years or so since i last visited Borinquen (native Taino name for P.R.), but a must-see destination for any beekeeper should bee the botanical gardens at the Mayaguez (west coast) campus of the Univ. of P.R....the college's apiary was located there then, don't know about now, but try to contact the extension apiculturist, Daniel Pesante, at UPR animal science dept., pob 5000,mayaguez,PR 00681,phone (809)2653854. the botanical gardens in San Juan (north coast) were also impressive but don't recall any apiary there...can try to contact the apiary inspector, Nilda Perez, at the PR dept. of agriculture, san juan, PR 10163, phone (809)7244627. hopefully this info is up to date, got it from bee culture's who's who in beekeeping site...they also give a local association contact, gregorio rivera, pob 471, Lares, PR 00669, in the central highlands. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:43:38 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: queen cage help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can some one direct me to the source for buying Kohen or Conan queen bee shipping cages. Aloha and Thanks Walter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:59:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: FAITHAB Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Automation in beekeeping (?) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey, what's happened to the Best of bee. Up until today, the "from" column of everything I've been getting says "bees@styronix". Now I'm seeing that the messages appear to be coming into my mail directly from the sender, i.re. dronebee@norfolk, andy nachbar@ca,beekpr@bell.sou. What gives? Is this the way it is supposed to work. Are we actually getting these fed through BoB or is the route different. Any computer guru out there know? It may be that no one will get this message!! Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:14:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Best of BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Faith asked what's up with Best of Bee-l. BEST of BEE-L is a service provided by Allen Dick who receives mail at (allend@INTERNODE.NET or bees@SYSTRONIX.NET). I'm not sure of the particulars of how he provides this service other than he filters some of the "noise" on BEE-L and redistributes the rest via BestOfBee-L. I believe Allen is on vacation right now, escaping the great white north and touring parts of California. I and am not sure of his return date. Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:21:46 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: queen cage help In-Reply-To: <199801151545.FAA05154@lehua.ilhawaii.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:43 AM 1/15/98 -1000, you wrote: >Can some one direct me to the source for buying Kohen or Conan queen bee >shipping cages. The first place to try would bee at: C.F. Koehnen & Sons, Inc. (916) 891-5216 or (913) 934-5216 Good Luck, Andy- * A cynic smells the flowers and looks for the casket. * A beeman smells the flowers and looks for a bee location near the cemetery. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:21:37 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David W. Inouye" Subject: Re: Records of Apis mellifera to Brazil/the Americas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's an early reference to Apis in the America's, from a will: "Plymouth Colony Records," Vol. 1, "Wills and Inventories, 1633-1669" ed. C. H. Simmons, Jr. (Camden, Maine: Picton Press, 1996). pp 38-39, An Inventorie of the goods and chattells of Nathaniell Tilden late of Scituate in New England in America gen Deceased made & prized the xxxith Day of July 1641...(after a listing of the husbandry tools and cattle and hogs and fowl comes "tenn stocks & swarmes of bees" rated at ten British pounds. The cattle, consisting of two oxen, two bulls, two steers, one yearling, one cow, and one calf were valued at fifty British pounds. In an ajacent inventory three milk cows were valued at six pounds apiece. David Inouye, di5@umail.umd.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:44:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Problems with BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have been doing some administrative cleanup with the BEE-L subscription list (hunting down and removing subscribers who are no longer there). Based on responses from some users I'm beginning to think think I have screwed up subscription options, specifically MAIL/NOMAIL and DIGEST options. This may be related to the reported problems with the internal workings of BestOfBEE-L (which relies on NOMAIL being set on BEE-L). Users are encouraged to check their subscription options and verify ther are set as they wish. I am truely sorry for this inconvenience. Aaron Morris - thinking I may have goofed! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:14:05 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Best of BEE-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Aaron Morris wrote: >BEST of BEE-L is a service provided by Allen Dick who receives mail at >(allend@INTERNODE.NET or bees@SYSTRONIX.NET). I'm not sure of the >particulars of how he provides this service other than he filters some >of the "noise" on BEE-L and redistributes the rest via BestOfBee-L. > >I believe Allen is on vacation right now, escaping the great white north >and touring parts of California. I and am not sure of his return date. Yes, Allen posted a note to that effect and cautioned that we might have some trouble with BEE-L mail during his absence. Please be patient. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:14:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Records of Apis mellifera to Brazil/the Americas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tomas Mozer wrote: >Trevor's and Peter's postings have rekindled my curiosity on the date(s) >of early introductions to the new world...does anyone know if the >vikings were beekeepers at the time of their vinland settlement in >Newfoundland (about a millenium ago)? >I too have heard of a date in the 1530's for a presumed (Spanish) >introduction, but have not been able to find documentation for this...my >2 editions of "the hive and the honeybee"(1975&1992) do not have the >1963 e.crane reference previously mentioned, could you post it more fully >(peter)? One of the problems we have with the Internet is that erroneous information gets posted and then seems to have a life of its own. The Eva Crane reference is as follows: Crane, Eva. 1983. THE ARCHAEOLOGY OF BEEKEEPING. Cornell Univ. Press, Ithaca. She has always been most thorough in her research. On p. 33 of that volume she wrote: "Like Australia, the Americas have no native honey bees (Apis), but some of the tropical areas are rich in the social stingless bees or Meliponini...." And: "Hives of European honey bees were shipped to North America from 1621 onwards. The bees prospered, and gradually colonised North America except for the far north...and in the later nineteenth century by direct shipments to the West Coast." In my readings on the subject, I have found adequate independent confirmation of her statements --- in articles not cited by her. As in may cases, some retain a romantic notion that honey bees must have always been here (maybe Richard Taylor belongs in that category). Before honey bees, though, the native bees and hummingbirds (not found in Europe) thrived on native flora. The stucture and color of native blossoms also match what one would expect if honey bees had not been here before importation by Europeans. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:32:44 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JCHenry500 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Problems with BEE-L Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, someone has changed my options as I am getting tons of mail about Bees all of a sudden instead of one letter a day. For those of us who are barely computer literate, would you tell us how "TO CHECK MY MAIL OPTION SETTINGS and remind me how to set it to nomail Thanks charles Henry little rock ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:00:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lou Guske, Jr." Subject: Re: Problems with BEE-L In-Reply-To: <67e57a29.34be564e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to all! For those of you that have been wondering whether they have been doing (or have done) something wrong with their e-mail system, cheer up. It appears that the problem of getting individual e-mail from the group instead of everything at the end of the day in "Digest" format is the problem of the digest server. They appear to "bee" aware of the problem and are attempting to solve it. In the mean time, be prepared to get lots of e-mail in your mailboxes! Cheers, Lou Guske, Jr -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of Bee Biology [mailto:BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU] On Behalf Of JCHenry500 Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:33 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Problems with BEE-L Yes, someone has changed my options as I am getting tons of mail about Bees all of a sudden instead of one letter a day. For those of us who are barely computer literate, would you tell us how "TO CHECK MY MAIL OPTION SETTINGS and remind me how to set it to nomail Thanks charles Henry little rock ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:52:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Checking Options on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm convinced I messed up. Yes, I am fallible. I believe what I have done is inadvertently reset everyones' BEE-L subscriptions back to the default and I can't correct that without deleting some subscribers. If you have never changed your subscription options then you aren't effected by my error. Otherwise please check and reset (if necesary) your BEE-L subscription options. To check your subscription options send mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu with one line of mail that reads: QUERY BEE-L LISTSERV will return mail to you telling you your subscription options. To change your subscription options you must again send mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu with a line that reads: SET BEE-L option where option could be DIGEST or NOMAIL or whatever particular option you wish to set. Again, my sincerest apologies for this inconvenience. Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:55:14 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: bee origins - another good book Hi All Just thought I would post the details of this book. It is by a man who has had a great impact on the understanding of bees and makes great reading. It also has really nice photographs (B&W) of some of the other bee species and combs they build, as well as stuff on their languages, specifics and just about anything general one wants to know. Ruttner, Friedrich TITLE Biogeography and taxonomy of honeybees / Friedrich Ruttner PUBLISHER Berlin : Springer, c1988 ISBN 0-387-17781-7 DESCRIPTION xii, 284 p. : ill. ; 25 cm. NOTE Includes index Hope this is useful Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:19:23 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: from the end of the world!! In-Reply-To: <199801150138.EAA25625@chasque.apc.org> Hi Carlos and All Carlos wrote: > Very interesting your motion on the possible evolution of the bee. We wait > that in a next future the scientific evidence confirm with made these > intelligent hypothesis. I believe that the evidencefor this has been published in a book by Dr Friedrich Ruttner (I have read it cover to cover a few times and find it to be a very interesting book) - Biogeography and Taxonomy of the Honey Bees. He proposed on the basis of morphological measurements similar to those used at present to differentiate africanized bees from european bees by Texas State Authorities and others, the split into the three groups. I have tried to locate the references that backed this research up on mitochondrial level, but am having difficulty with the library online function at present. (will have to go and look in a file - eeeeeek) I think the they were by Dr Deborah Roan Smith, or maybe by a one of the big name german groups. I cannot remember. So I think that we can soundly say that Dr Ruttners brilliant reasoning has been confirmed by modern scientific techniques. (Interestingly enough those mitochondrial DNA papers use as a comparison/outgroup the eastern cavity nesting bee, A.cerana-which further shows that it shares a common ancestor with all of our bees.) > If possible I would like to listen somewhat more on this, for example until > where it can arrive the african bee in North America. Until Washington? or > Massachusets? I personally think that it will not go much further than it has in Texas, and that if it makes it to Florida it will thrive, likewise parts of Lousiana and much of California as these areas have extremes of climate that are maybe within the range the bees can tolerate. There is also the possibility of the bees harbouring in 'donor' hives. (hives maintained by people that do nice things like putting them in sheds with heating etc) These bees will swarm in spring - often- successfully. Anyhow, just some thoughts. Keep well Garth > > Regards > > > Carlos Aparicio > > > > > > > At 05:56 PM 14/01/1998 GMT+0200, Garth wrote: > >Hi Carlos > > > >Some of the things you mentioned about african bees were interesting > >but clashed with some things I have heard. > >......... > --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:12:38 -0600 Reply-To: gmc@vci.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: Re: bee feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i used it last year, and several other people are using it, but i was wondering if anybody else had used it or if it was known to be a safe practice. Michael Palmer wrote: > Beeman, did your bees do ok on it? Does it have any strange ingredients? > Experiment! > > beeman wrote: > > > HI all! well i feed my bees suryp from a local candy manufacturing > > plant, does anybody know if this is safe?? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: bee feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All. I would like to add a brief note to this thread because it seems to be a very significant one for the health of the bee colony. Without taking any accolades for personal habits, I want to point out that I enjoy reading, especially regarding my pet creature, the honey bee. Prior to developing double vision, I could be regarded as the proverbial "book worm;" hence in many cases, I remember having read something, but can't quite remember where. The case that comes to mind is one in which I remember reading a research report relative to colony temperature maintenance during the winter. If I remember correctly, in essence the author explained that honey bees utilized their intestinal contents as a means of heat preservation during the winter (by merely keeping their in intestinal contents metabolic byproducts). From other readings, I remember that "healthy" honey bees will never void inside their own confines. However, drones and "sick" bees will void within the confines of their colony. Agreeing with Frank, the presence of considerable bee excrement within the confines of the hive, should be considered as a serious sign of illness of the colony and a good indication to check for the cause of the illness. Best regards. Dr. Rodrigez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:49:10 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore DTN276-9448 ogo1/e17 508-496-9448 Subject: Were the BEE-L subscriber settings modified?? It appears that BEE-L is sending mail to the those who had the nomail setting. Also from a previous message maybe digest requesters as well. Did the list server trash the settings? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:11:35 -0600 Reply-To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Excerpts from BEE-L Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net Subject: Verbena Colors Desert with Rare winter Blush In-Reply-To: <199801142355.PAA01577@mail.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Temperatures have been 10 degrees above normal the last ten days which > could bring on a early bloom if they continue higher then normal. "Verbena Colors Desert with Rare Winter Blush" reports the Desert Sun (serving the Coachella valley since 1927) in front page headlines. The article continues to report : "In my experience, this is the first time I've seen sand vebana bloom in profusion in winter, or for that matter, fall, or for that matter, summer.: said Jim Conett, curator of natural sciences at Palm Springs Desert Museum... A local oldtimer reports the last time verbena was seen in this profusion was 1961-62, and others say it is a once ina lifetime experience. Other out of season blooms: creosote, desert sunflower, desert primrose, brittlebush, herons's bill, etc, etc. The cause? El Nino. According to the paper... Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:30:51 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: Re: Problems with BEE-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, you did change a few things, I had the digest set and now it isn't and that is a very disconcerting. I was set to no mail, as I was on vacation for quite awhile. Fortunately, just came back to you saved me the trouble of resetting that, but could you please make sure my digest option is set. I will try it from here, but did last night and it appears it did n ot take. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:45:25 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Records of Apis mellifera to Brazil/the Americas In-Reply-To: <19980115.050043.7463.1.tomasmozer@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > trevor's and peter's postings have rekindled my curiosity on the date(s= ) > of early introductions to the new world...does anyone know if the > vikings were beekeepers at the time of their vinland settlement in > Newfoundland (about a millenium ago)? > I too have heard of a date in the 1530's for a presumed (Spanish) > introduction, but have not been able to find documentation for this...m= y > 2 editions of "the hive and the honeybee"(1975&1992) do not have the > 1963 e.crane reference previously mentioned, could you post it more ful= ly > (peter)? > (trevor, what response(s) did you get from beebrazil-list, you mention= ed > something from Portugal?) Thanks to Tomas for his information on the beebrazil-list. I had a reply from Antonio from Portugal giving the 1839 date that Peter = quoted and also a reference to an article by the Royal Academy of Science= s in Lisbon saying that in 1799 there was no Apis mellifera in Brazil. I am not looking to re-write history. Just find out what the histroy act= ually is and apply that to the Australian situation. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:17:44 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Subject: African bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:50:21 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Constill Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Problems with BEE-L Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron, I have been getting my bee stuff all as individual e-mails to me instead of one list. I know something is wrong, but how do I fix it? Conni Still ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:59:58 -0500 Reply-To: bkeep200@concentric.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "J.Troyer" Subject: Digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, Could we please be put on a digest mode instead of individual messages? Thank you!!!! -- Mail to:bkeep200@concentric.net http://www.concentric.net/~bkeep200 Honey Hill Farm - Handcrafted Honey & Beeswax Soaps ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:15:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Illegal beekeeping In-Reply-To: <10263701010786@systronix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What city do you live in that has banned beekeeping? I'm in Gilroy CA, and we got such a law in 1995. It was brought on by a guy who had chickens running loose, roosting on cars, crowing at 3 A.M., getting in traffic and creating a general nuisance. The city fathers passed a blanket law listing specific livestock and honey bees. The local bee association (at http://www.hotcity.com/~bees) is researching the background of the law in preparation to try to get it changed. One thing we are doing is collecting examples of reasonable beekeeping ordinances to present as evidence. Obviously, we'll steer clear of your city's ordinance! Michael At 03:26 AM 1/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: wd6esz > >Kathy, Thanks for your suggested explanations. Yes, she was marked. When I >said "unusual color", I was referring to the MARK that made me notice her >coming in for a landing. And I ruled out that she was a new marked queen >because there were no other queens in the hive. And if it was a mating >flight, it seems she wouldn't be very successsful this time of year because >I'm in an urban area where beekeeping is illegal. > >Rich > > Michael ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:37:17 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nobody Nobody Subject: About setting options. Somebody Please tell me how I can set this up so I only get One e-mail per day from the BEE-L Electronic Mailing List. I am recieving upto 30 messages a day from club members. -Ben M. Poehlman Lincoln, Nebraska, USA Ben32887@juno.com P.S.-- If I set the options up so I get only one club message per day, Will all of the e-mails be 'merged' together? Please write back. ---End of Message--- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:01:10 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: simulated tropics above lattitude 35 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" AHB is not stalled at the border in California as some have suggested. They are all over the Imperial Valley, and progressing steadily toward the L.A. basin. They are likely to arrive there this coming season or the one following. L.A. is at about lattitude 34. It appears that AHB is limited by certain factors, such as winter temperature and absence of a steady year round food supply. It has been suggested that lattitude 35 is a sort of boundary line beyond which these conditions aren't met consistently enough to support AHB. However, there is a climatic band just inland from the California coastline that has me a little concerned (especially since I live in it). This area runs all the way up to the south San Fransisco bay area. It rarely ever freezes, there are abundant winter blooming plants, and the landscape is dotted with small, medium, and large cities. The cities are what have me wondering most, because cities in warm climates are never without a nectar flow. Urban plantings are so diverse, and are generally selected for bloom potential to such a large extent that bees are rarely without a steady food supply. It seems to me that this urban phenomenon might simulate tropical nectar flow conditions. I keep my bees in a rural setting and have about 2 months of near total dearth in late fall and early winter, but I have several friends with bees in the San Jose area who pull a box of honey off of their best hives every month of the year. (Finding a time to treat these hives for mites is a real problem, by the way!) This makes me wonder if AHB could get a foothold in cities near the California coastline well above the 35th parallel. (San Jose is just above lattitude 37.) Any ideas? Is there any other urbanized coastal area near the north or south 35th parallel with AHB exposure for comparison? Michael Michael ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Spaulding Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980116081514.007b5770@hotcity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Beepeople- Worcester, Ma. also has an ordinance against beekeeping. Not that it's enforced unless they're is a problem. But I was told to be very discrete. That is good advice any way. Out of site out of mind. John Spaulding juggler@nesc.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:25:27 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dusty Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L In-Reply-To: <980115.145532.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please remove me from the list. I have been too busy lately and would like to rejoin at a later time, Thank you Dusty "BEAUTY IS IN THE HANDS OF THE BEERHOLDER" Angel's Old Town HomeBrew http://www.netropolis.net/dusty/homebrew.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:45:38 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I grew up in the town of Hempstead NY. I was told it was the first township in the US to outlaw honeybees. I always thought it humerous to see all the bees on blooms in fields and waste areas. We all got stung as kids anyway from the bees on white clover on the lawns, *G* Michael Reddell wrote: > What city do you live in that has banned beekeeping? > I'm in Gilroy CA, and we got such a law in 1995. > It was brought on by a guy who had chickens running loose, roosting on > cars, crowing at 3 A.M., getting in traffic and creating a general > nuisance. The city fathers passed a blanket law listing specific livestock > and honey bees. > The local bee association (at http://www.hotcity.com/~bees) is researching > the background of the law in preparation to try to get it changed. > One thing we are doing is collecting examples of reasonable beekeeping > ordinances to present as evidence. Obviously, we'll steer clear of your > city's ordinance! > Michael > > At 03:26 AM 1/16/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology > >From: wd6esz > > > >Kathy, Thanks for your suggested explanations. Yes, she was marked. When I > >said "unusual color", I was referring to the MARK that made me notice her > >coming in for a landing. And I ruled out that she was a new marked queen > >because there were no other queens in the hive. And if it was a mating > >flight, it seems she wouldn't be very successsful this time of year because > >I'm in an urban area where beekeeping is illegal. > > > >Rich > > > > > Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:34:56 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: one week retreat MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 c2VlbiB0byBtZSB0aGF0IG9uZSB3ZWVrIHJldHJlYXQgZnJvbSB0aGUgbGlzdCB3aWxsIGJl IGdvb2QsDQpzbyBldmVyYm9keSBjYW4gc2V0IHRoZXJlIHN1YnNjaXB0aW9uIHRvIHdoYXQg dGhleSBsaWtlDQphbmQgSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIHRvIHJlYWQgdGhhdCBvbiB0aGUgbGlzdCBz ZWxmICA7LSkNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KQkVFLUwgYXJlIDgwMCAoPykgbWVtYmVycyBhbGwg b3ZlciB0aGUgd29ybGQNClRoZSAgTElTVFNFUlZAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFOWS5FRFUuIGlzIHRo ZSByb2JvdCB3aG8gZGlkIHRoYXQuDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCmNoYW5nZSBhbnl0aGluZyBh Ym91dCB0aGUgbGlzdHNlcnZlcj8/IGdvIHRvOg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5iZWVrZWVwaW5nLmNv Lm56L2JlZWwuaHRtDQphIHRlcnJpZmljIG1hY2hpbmUNCrCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsA0KSmFuIFRlbXBlbG1hbiAv IEluZWtlIERyYWJiZSAgICAgfCAgICAgRU1BSUw6anRlbXBAeHM0YWxsLm5sDQpTdGVycmVt b3MgMTYgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAzMDY5IEFTIFJvdHRlcmRhbSwgVGhlIE5ldGhlcmxhbmRz DQpUZWwvRmF4IChTT01FVElNRVMpIFhYIDMxICgwKTEwLTQ1Njk0MTINCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cu eHM0YWxsLm5sL35qdGVtcC9pbmRleDMuaHRtbA0KsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwDQoNCg0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:07:29 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: simulated tropics above lattitude 35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting, Michael. Thanks for your information on this thread. It worthy of thought and consideration by those that live in areas like you. Beekeepers have to be aware for the potential of their colonies being invaded by AHB swarms. You'll never know until you open one of them! Good luck. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:22:38 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Judy Spradley Subject: Re: Problems with BEE-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hope this is not a repeat. to receive the digest form - send a message to listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu in the body of the message type "set Bee-L digest" to unsubscribe - send a message to listserv@cnsibm.albany.edu in the body of the message type "unsubscribe bee-l" Judy, A Displaced Texan in PA (ironacres@geocities.com) IRON ACRES HANDCRAFTS - goat milk soap & beeswax candles Where the water is red & the grass is green! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:51:18 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Jeffries Barber Subject: Re: African bee In-Reply-To: <34BF17A8.4CF5@together.net>; from "Richard Drutchas" at Jan 16, 98 8:17 am According to Richard Drutchas: > > Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? > Disney World, then Daytona bike week :) -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:04:09 -0600 Reply-To: lawrence@the-link.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Lawrence W. Thompson" Subject: Re: African bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven Jeffries Barber wrote: > > Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? > Disney World, then Daytona bike week :) Thanks Steven, This really cracked me up when I read it!!!! <:'} Lawrence ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:33:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Subject: Re: Records of Apis mellifera to Brazil/the Americas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tomas, Dr. Crane dropped the 16th century reference in subsequent contributions to The Hive and the Honey Bee. I have a letter from her explaining she couldn't recall where she had the original information from but no longer had confidence in that first date. The 1963 reference simply reads "they were taken from Portugal to Brasil around 1530". In 1975 she relied upon Nogueira-Neto when she wrote "We now know that honeybees were not introduced to Brazil until 1839". Bob Gulliford, editor of the eminent journal The Australasian Beekeeper, has no confidence in these later dates and relies upon common sense that early Catholic missionaries must have managed to ship bees to Brazil in the 16th or 17th century. Peter > > trevor's and peter's postings have rekindled my curiosity on the date(s) > of early introductions to the new world...does anyone know if the > vikings were beekeepers at the time of their vinland settlement in > Newfoundland (about a millenium ago)? > I too have heard of a date in the 1530's for a presumed (Spanish) > introduction, but have not been able to find documentation for this...my > 2 editions of "the hive and the honeybee"(1975&1992) do not have the > 1963 e.crane reference previously mentioned, could you post it more fully > (peter)? > (trevor, what response(s) did you get from beebrazil-list, you mentioned > something from Portugal?) > any further info would bee appreciated, thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:15:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bees On-Line Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You are invited to examine daily flight activity and internal hive temperatures for seven hives as well as weather conditions over a two week period at the University of Montana's Electronic Apiary in Missoula, Montana. You can also see if Bob is working at his desk (updated every 15 seconds), or if our happy bee is sitting in front of the Video Cam. Finally, you can check the weather conditions in my office (updated every 15 seconds) by checking out the WeatherMax station. The on-line capability was just realized this week. The JAVA graphs work best under Netscape and sometimes exhibit compatibility problems with Explorer. Older machines and browsers may not properly support JAVA. Hive Flight Activity, Temperatures, Weather, etc.: We have seven electronic hives at our reference site at the Vo-Tech West Campus at the west end of the Missoula valley in western Montana. Flight Activity Data Tables and Plots: The numbers of bees entering and leaving each hive are continuously monitored from early morning through late evening. The bi-directional counters collect data at a rate of 200 times per second. Bees enter and leave the hives via 14 passageways, each of which has two infra-red detectors (sort of a honey bee toll booth system). Depending on which infra-red beam is blocked first by the bee and when the bee clears the second beam, the computer software knows if the bee is going in or out of the hive. This data is summarized every 30 seconds and the count is saved to the data file for the day. When you click on the Forager Flight link, our server will present a table of daily flight activity records from August, 1997. The left-hand column of files are text files containing the actual flight data. If your computer and browser supports JAVA, the right-hand column of files will download and graph the flight activity for all of the hives for a specific day. When the graph appears, you will see all of the data for all seven hives (a bit of a jumble). Move your mouse to the column of buttons with check marks and click on all but one box (e.g., Bees In, Hive 1). Now, click on the Bees Out, Hive 1 box, and that data series will be plotted. If you click on the Alt Y box, you can establish a second Y axis (an option that is most useful for examining hive temperature and weather station data). By clicking on the button boxes, you can toggle on or off any or all of the line plots. As such you can easily compare the hives. Some were very strong, some of moderate strength, and some had weak populations. All of these hives are mini-hives (see photographs posted on our site) with from 1-3 pounds of bees. When winter breaks, we intend to put the hives on-line in real-time. Day Length and Hive Temperature: The same computer collects light intensity data and the temperature at the top of each two story hive (just under the cover) and on top of the frames of the first box (near the brood nest). Again, we present the data from the seven hives in Missoula in August. Either link takes you to the same data files. If you choose the JAVA graph, you will note that the very high maximum values of light intensity tend to compress the plots for internal hive temperatures. You can either click on the button box to turn off the light intensity plot, or you can click on the Alt Y axis. That will force the light intensity data to re-plot on a new Y axis that appears to the right of the chart (but this axis sometimes disappears on Explorer Browsers). You will note some spikes in the data and some very low temperature values. The spikes are mainly electronic noise, which we are working to eliminate. The lowest temperature value plots (for the most part) are temperatures inside three bumblebee colonies in the same apiary. THESE ARE RAW DATA FILES. As such, you will see some glitches. Part of our work this past fall has been to produce our own data acquisition software for this system and for the weather station. We have not been pleased with the reliability of communication protocols used by several commercial software programs that can be used to interface with these systems. Again, we will put this system on-line in real-time in the spring. WeatherMax (on-line now) The weather station is sitting on top of Bob's computer. Indoor temperature and barometric pressure are correct. A temperature probe is hanging out the window to measure outside temperature. Because we have not gotten permission to mount a mast on our office building, the wind speed and direction instruments are sitting on a chair in front of a fan. The rain collector and outside humidity are not hooked up. But you can see 15 second updates of barometric pressure, changes in the pressure, outdoor temperature, indoor temperature, and how fast the fan is pushing the anemometer. To more easily read temperatures on the chart, turn off the barometric pressure or turn on the Alt Y axis for barometric pressure. When winter breaks, we will have all of the Weather Station functions on-line. If your browser does not support JAVA you can look at the 15 second Weather Station data in tabular form. If you examine the Historical Weather Files, you will find one for the current day about half way down the list. These files stores daily weather summaries, plotted on 5 minute intervals. Thus, today's weather will be plotted from midnight through the moment that you open the file. Again, you can also look at the text version of the weather files. Depending on the browser, the column labels may not line up quite right (they tend to shift to the left, not surprising under HTML). JAVA Charts do not print from the standard browser print command. On a PC, you can hit the Alt and PrintScrn keys to save an image to the clipboard. Paste it into a Paint Brush or Graphics compatible word processor or spreadsheet. The Tables for all data can be imported into spreadsheets. I think every beekeeper will be interested in looking at the time lags of incoming versus outgoing bees, differences in flight activity related to colony strength, and differences in flight activity due to weather conditions. We have provided you with about two weeks of data for 7 hives. We have about 6 months of data from 21 hives (96), 28 hives (97), and currently have 7 hives in MD and 7 hives in MT logging data. We will be publishing papers on these systems and unique data sets such as colony swarms, effects of smoke, etc. in the near future. Enjoy! Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:57:44 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: wd6esz Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980116081514.007b5770@hotcity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Michael, Here in Orange County, California, the bee laws are NOT reasonable. Every city within OC has a local law that prohits the keeping of bees. The only place you can keep bees legally is in the small bits of unincorporated county land. Sort of like keeping ferrets; it's illegal for no good reason, so people ignore the law. Rich On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Michael Reddell wrote: > What city do you live in that has banned beekeeping? > I'm in Gilroy CA, and we got such a law in 1995. > It was brought on by a guy who had chickens running loose, roosting on > cars, crowing at 3 A.M., getting in traffic and creating a general > nuisance. The city fathers passed a blanket law listing specific livestock > and honey bees. > The local bee association (at http://www.hotcity.com/~bees) is researching > the background of the law in preparation to try to get it changed. > One thing we are doing is collecting examples of reasonable beekeeping > ordinances to present as evidence. Obviously, we'll steer clear of your > city's ordinance! > Michael > > At 03:26 AM 1/16/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology > >From: wd6esz > > > >Kathy, Thanks for your suggested explanations. Yes, she was marked. When I > >said "unusual color", I was referring to the MARK that made me notice her > >coming in for a landing. And I ruled out that she was a new marked queen > >because there were no other queens in the hive. And if it was a mating > >flight, it seems she wouldn't be very successsful this time of year because > >I'm in an urban area where beekeeping is illegal. > > > >Rich > > > > > Michael > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:09:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: wd6esz Subject: Re: African bee => Florida needs to worry In-Reply-To: <199801170051.TAA89465@pen2.pen.k12.va.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII And what is the plan for earthquakes in Florida? Or flooding in Florida? Or drought in Florida? It's not exactly like out here in California where we deal with these things everyday and life goes on. On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Steven Jeffries Barber wrote: > According to Richard Drutchas: > > > > Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? > > > Disney World, then Daytona bike week :) > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:44:39 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was a beekeeper with 5 skeps in his garden The police forbit that after the neighbours complained "childeren get stings" So he takes the skeps to a other place, except one. After the neighbours complaining again about the new stings, and the police come back he takes the skep, set it on his head and walks away confused neighbours and police left behind Here in Rotterdam, we have beekeepers in the middle of the town Hives on the roof, or in little garden With al the parks, a great place to keep bees. And in 1996, almost all honey was from louses And in the sub-urbs, always anything is blomming greeting, jan Michael Reddell wrote: > What city do you live in that has banned beekeeping? > I'm in Gilroy CA, and we got such a law in 1995. > It was brought on by a guy who had chickens running loose, roosting on > cars, crowing at 3 A.M., getting in traffic and creating a general > nuisance. The city fathers passed a blanket law listing specific lives= tock > and honey bees. > The local bee association (at http://www.hotcity.com/~bees) is research= ing > the background of the law in preparation to try to get it changed. > One thing we are doing is collecting examples of reasonable beekeeping > ordinances to present as evidence. Obviously, we'll steer clear of you= r > city's ordinance! > Michael =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0 Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:14:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas D. Harker" Subject: Re: Bees On-Line In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980116191037.353705c4@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:15 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >You are invited to examine daily flight activity and internal hive >temperatures for seven hives as well as weather conditions over a two week >period at the University of Montana's Electronic Apiary in Missoula, Montana. > It sounds interesting but where is it? Could you also comment on what the DOD's interest is in bees and beekeeping? (I saw the grant on your resume.) Thanks, Tom -------------------------------------------------------- 2 hives in Northern Illinois ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:45:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Subject: Re: African bee => Florida needs to worry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wd6esz wrote: > > And what is the plan for earthquakes in Florida? Or flooding in > Florida? Or drought in Florida? It's not exactly like out here in > California where we deal with these things everyday and life goes on. > > On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Steven Jeffries Barber wrote: > > According to Richard Drutchas: > > > > > > Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? > > > > > Disney World, then Daytona bike week :) > > > > -- > >The reason I asked was because I brought bees to Florida for the first this winter. I remember the quarantine mess that almost occurred when mites where found, what was it nine ten years ago. When's Daytona bike week? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:54:53 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jan I live in Kaunas, apr. 400,000 citizen. At the outskirts one can see = some hives. There are many limetrees in some parts of our town. I rarely = notice any bee while lime blooming time. I haven't heard the bee keeping was forbidden. But what is a reason to = have them in town ? I suppose such honey should be contaminated at least = with lead. We almost don't have Buckfast bees but Caucasian, Carnica, = mixed with local ones. One my such "Carnika" is very bad-tempered. Good luck, Rimantas Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt Jan Tempelman writes : Here in Rotterdam, we have beekeepers in the middle of the town Hives on the roof, or in little garden With al the parks, a great place to keep bees. And in 1996, almost all honey was from louses And in the sub-urbs, always anything is blomming greeting, jan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:43:39 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Problems with Bee-L For all those with problems: SET BEE-L EL NINO This means that you will recieve vast quantities of mail when your mail box is full, and none when it is empty. (Given what EL NINO means, it could be seen as rude!!) Keep well Garth : ) or .^. (for those on the other side of the world directly above) --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ingrid Chesnick Subject: package o bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well spring is coming up is there anybody that lives near gettys burg that will be able to sell me a nuc? and some foundation? Ian Chesnick LPA 8 Champion tr Fairfield PA 17320 chestnic@cvn.net 717 642 8888 I 76 forever ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:57:15 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Onscure Bee Laws Hi All I remember once reading on the inside of a chappy (type of chewing gum here that has obscure trivia printed on its wrappers) wrapper that there is a twon in Tennessee where an old municipal bylaw prohibits bees from flying over the town, either in a swarm or singly. (must have been that Jim Bean/m whiskey that is being so aggressively marketed here at present that did the trick) In Harare, Zimbabwe - in the heart of AHB of Africa's domain it is perfectly legal to keep bees in an urban area. People just act sensibly around them and the bees educate people who don't into doing so next time. In most towns in south africa beekeeping is not allowed in urban areas, although many beekeepers use urban areas as a source of new colonies, collabourating with local authorities to put empty old hive boxes in the towns. Many leave them there once full because they 'did not know' the bees had moved in. (I know of a guy in Durban about a thousand kilometrs up the coast from me who aquires over a thousand new swarms this way each year) Anyhow, keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:44:42 -0500 Reply-To: bkeep200@concentric.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "J.Troyer" Subject: Digest Mode MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who gave instructions on how to receive the digest mode. This am I received all messages in a digest form!! Thanks again, Joan -- Mail to:bkeep200@concentric.net http://www.concentric.net/~bkeep200 Honey Hill Farm - Handcrafted Honey & Beeswax Soaps ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:56:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Address for On-Line Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Oops! That's what I get for working late on a Friday. The on-line Weather station, bee data sets, etc. is: http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees Sorry! Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:29:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bees On-Line In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980117071424.030c65bc@mail.icd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:14 AM 1/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 09:15 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote: >>You are invited to examine daily flight activity and internal hive >>temperatures for seven hives as well as weather conditions over a two week >>period at the University of Montana's Electronic Apiary in Missoula, Montana. >> >It sounds interesting but where is it? http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees (sorry) > >Could you also comment on what the DOD's interest is in bees and >beekeeping? (I saw the grant on your resume.) > The DOD is interested in whether bees can be used to help survey large areas for the presence of biologically available environmental contaminants. The goal is to provide cost-effective tools to ensure a safer environment. For example, we place bees at military landfills to determine whether any contaminants are being released or to decide whether removal of materials or capping of the dump has successfully contained the harmful materials. We are sponsored by the U.S. Army Center for Environmental Health Research, formerly U.S. Army Biomedical Research Development Laboratory. You can read about the DOD sponsored work in the January 16 (this week's) issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education (should be available at all U.S. college and University Libraries and some hospitals); the December, 1997 issue of National Audubon; the June 10, 1997 issue of The Christian Science Monitor, Vol 89, No. 136, p. 12; The Weekly Newsmagazine of Science, Science News, Vol. 151, No. 21, pages 313-326; and in the May issue of Ranger Rick. All of these articles are copyright by the magazines. Therefore I can not scan and post them to the list. Although most of these are U.S. publications, it is my understanding that The Christian Science Monitor article went worldwide. Our mission is to provide better tools to protect the health and welfare of the environment and of people. Bees can provide an invaluable service as a form of miner's canary. Miner's used to carry canaries to warn of the presence of toxic gases. We do much the same with our bees. Whereas the canary fell off its perch, our bees respond in similar ways such as fewer bees returning to the hive than went out (the normal return rate is about 94-96%) for a healthy hive or drops in core temperature as the bees fail to properly thermoregulate. Most beekeepers have seen a massive loss of bees from pesticides or mites (either piles of dead bees in front of a hive, or few bees in the hive). We can tell you if the return rate drops off by even a small percentage, and we can tell you if that change occurred at a specific time of day or trailed out across the day. Our system is so sensitive, we can tell you if someone has been standing in front of the hive and when. If you look at our site, find a day when the weather was variable (thunderstorms), then look at the flight activity for the same day. Eventually, you will be able to cross-link graphs (i.e., weather, hive temperatures, flight activity). At this point in time, you will have to capture the appropriate graphs and then compare them. Jerry >Thanks, > >Tom > >-------------------------------------------------------- >2 hives in Northern Illinois > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:29:59 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Channell Subject: pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This list has probably discussed how to make pollen collector for the hive. Regrettably I missed that discussion. Could someone direct me to instructions on building a pollen collector for my hives? As an aside, could the collection of pollen weaken the hive? Thanks. Tim Channell - El Paso, Texas 6 urban hives ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:35:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping In-Reply-To: <01BD2368.A2CDA900@gytis.lei.lt> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Many cities are great places to keep bees - abundant floral resources, water, etc. Unless you have really heavy traffic, the honey should not have unacceptably high levels of lead. You are more likely to see lead in the pollen. In Seattle, Washington, U.S.A. the highest lead values were downwind from smelters, along major highways (both in the city and the rural areas) and were highest in the bees themselves, followed by pollen, and lowest or undetectable in honey. Overall urban bees were no worse than the bees in more rural areas. Proximity to heavy industries was a more important factor regarding overall contamination. Similar results have been reported by several European studies, especially in Germany. Jerry Bromenshenk University of Montana At 04:54 PM 1/17/98 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, Jan > >I live in Kaunas, apr. 400,000 citizen. At the outskirts one can see some hives. There are many limetrees in some parts of our town. I rarely notice any bee while lime blooming time. > >I haven't heard the bee keeping was forbidden. But what is a reason to have them in town ? I suppose such honey should be contaminated at least with lead. We almost don't have Buckfast bees but Caucasian, Carnica, mixed with local ones. One my such "Carnika" is very bad-tempered. > >Good luck, Rimantas > > >Rimantas Zujus >Kaunas >LITHUANIA > >e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt > >Jan Tempelman writes : > >Here in Rotterdam, we have beekeepers in the middle of the town >Hives on the roof, or in little garden >With al the parks, a great place to keep bees. >And in 1996, almost all honey was from louses >And in the sub-urbs, always anything is blomming > >greeting, jan > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:52:13 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward A Markus SEARCH BEE-L petroleum jelly ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Tim: Bees need pollen as their source of protein. In bee colonies which deprived of pollen, the queen stops laying. Simple as that. Pollen is mixed with honey by the bees and stored as "beebread" which they consume later especially during winter clustering and at times when flowers are scarce. I have found that feeding pollen is especially helpful to colonies that are heavily parasitized by mites. So that is another consideration to keep in mind. If you have mites, it may not be a good idea to take pollen away from your colonies. It might be "okay" to collect pollen depending on circumstances in your area and time of the year, BUT, bearing in mind what I indicated above. Good luck with your project. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:54:21 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Problems with Bee-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Garth. Nice pun. I wonder how many flames you'll get from this one. Always good to hear from you. Dr. R. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:29:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer In-Reply-To: <30BEB11042@warthog.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The local commercial outfit I sometimes work for uses large flat-bed trucks (1-1.5 ton?) for bringing in the crop. The beds on these trucks are about 5 feet off the ground, at least, requiring one person to stay up there and stack the supers onto the pallets. (As the day goes by the height of the truck bed seems to increase, as the supers get "heavier!") This is okay, if there is always an "extra" person available, besides those carrying supers from the hives. I think we get something like 250 mediums on one load. The stacks are rolled off into the honey house with a hand truck. Another local NY guy, with a smaller operation, tows a low trailer instead, behind a smaller truck. This way he can load the supers right onto the trailer, with a minumum of lifting upwards. (Plus the trailer can be detatched and left wherever.) I believe he wheels the stacks off with a hand-truck as well. Anyway, can anyone offer any other points in favor of a trailer, vs. a pickup or other bed-truck? Besides the slight complications in driving, I wonder if anyone has found this to be a better arrangement, at least on a sideliner-scale. My pickup has a permanently frozen tailgate, so I have fun lifting the supers over the sides. Fortunately it is a small truck (not full size pickup) so it isn't too bad. Best regards and thanks for any input, JG ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:40:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:29 PM 1/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >The local commercial outfit I sometimes work for uses large flat-bed trucks >(1-1.5 ton?) for bringing in the crop. > >The beds on these trucks are about 5 feet off the ground, at least, >requiring one person to stay up there and stack the supers onto the >pallets. (As the day goes by the height of the truck bed seems to >increase, as the supers get "heavier!") > >This is okay, if there is always an "extra" person available, besides those >carrying supers from the hives. I think we get something like 250 mediums >on one load. The stacks are rolled off into the honey house with a hand >truck. > >Another local NY guy, with a smaller operation, tows a low trailer instead, >behind a smaller truck. This way he can load the supers right onto the >trailer, with a minumum of lifting upwards. (Plus the trailer can be >detatched and left wherever.) I believe he wheels the stacks off with a >hand-truck as well. > >Anyway, can anyone offer any other points in favor of a trailer, vs. a >pickup or other bed-truck? Besides the slight complications in driving, I >wonder if anyone has found this to be a better arrangement, at least on a >sideliner-scale. > >My pickup has a permanently frozen tailgate, so I have fun lifting the >supers over the sides. Fortunately it is a small truck (not full size >pickup) so it isn't too bad. > >Best regards and thanks for any input, > >JG > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:29 PM 1/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >The local commercial outfit I sometimes work for uses large flat-bed trucks >(1-1.5 ton?) for bringing in the crop. Most of our Commercial Beekeepers use flatbed trucks, although some use low-boy trailers. An obvious advantage of the trailer is the low ground height. One of the disadvantages is bounce and sway. Dual axles help. Also, going across a dip, like a ditch beside a road can sometimes bottom out on the hitch. As per moving the supers around. You use the grunt and toss method or a hand truck. Our guys vary from: Electric Hand Trucks and Ramps - one man can move the boxes around and end up on the bed for stacking. Electric booms and winches - works really well from trailers Fork Lifts - only for the largest of operations. Cheers Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:01:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHNBEKPR Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Fw: beeswax cleaning Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Betty I enjoy all your letter on the Bee list. I would like to obtain this information. I am a hobbiest beekeeper with 18 hives, this is my fourth year we are located in N. Smithfield, R.I. USA Thank you John ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:08:30 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: Problems with BEE-L In-Reply-To: <15293097013527@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <15293097013527@systronix.net>, Excerpts from BEE-L writes >Aaron Morris - thinking I may have goofed! Join the rest of us. -- Tom ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:30:18 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: package bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All. I saw a similar plea being made by one of our subscribers and decided to use her idea to locate package bees. I plan to incorporate a new phase for my FGMO application this year regarding my previously announced intentions of development of a processes that will make MO application cost effective. I plan to add another site to my research project in order to be able to fully and most appropriately test my equipment. In view of the increased volume of testing I will be in need of additional colonies of bees. Does anyone know of a bee package supplier from whom I may purchase package bees at the earliest possible date? If the weather continues to behave in a similar pattern as we are having at present, I am anticipating abundance of early flowers this year. Bushes and trees are budding all around this area already. Information on this subject will be greatly appreciated. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Anticipating Spring (feeding) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gardening and beekeeping share to wonderful potenital to make glomy winter days more bearable by allowing us to anticipate spring. In that vein, and this being my first beekeeping spring, a question on feeding. I'm in the southern end of the North Carolina piedmont. Data from the state university tells me I'll see blackberry bloom the second week in April (following two months of maple bloom and a month of dandelion), followed a week later by some clovers, and a couple of weeks later by tulip popular. I'm keen to catch some honey from the blackberry and the tulip poplar. So, how many weeks in advance should I start feeding syrup and/or pollen to stimulate brood rearing that will get me a healthy band of foragers by April 12? If it's 21 days from egg to bee, and another 10 for newly emerged worker to move outside the hive, it seems I'd want to begin stimulating strong egg-laying at least six weeks out (about March 1) through feeding both syrup and pollen substitute. Is that a good guess? Sooner? Later? Thanks for your help. Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:20:01 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur by way of Andy Nachbaur " Subject: DEC US HONEY MARKET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE (EDITED without permission) DATE: January 12, 1998 Fruit and Vegetable Division 2015 South I st Street - RM 4 Yakima, WA 96903 MONTH OF DECEMBER, 1997 Prices paid to beekeepers for extracted, unprocessed honey in major producing states by packers, handlers & other large users, cents per pound, f.o.b. or delivered nearby, containers exchanged or returned, prompt delivery and payment unless otherwise stated. ARKANSAS - Soybean, extra light amber, 69-70 cents CALIFORNIA - Alfalfa/Mixed Flowers, extra light amber, 63 cents - Blue Curl, white, 72 cents - Blue Curl, extra light amber, 63 cents - Clover, extra light amber, 75 cents - Cotton/Alfalfa/Buckwheat, extra light amber, 60-61 - Cotton/Alfalfa/Buckwheat, light amber, 60 cents - Mixed Flowers, extra fight amber, 73 cents - Mixed Flowers, light amber, 59 - 60 cents - Orange, white, 81 cents (delivered to east coast) - Sage, white, 72 - 81 cents (higher price indicates honey delivered to east coast) - Sage, extra fight amber, 63 cents - Sage, light amber, 61 cents FLORIDA - Brazilian Pepper, fight amber, 65 cents IDAHO - Alfalfa, extra light amber, 65 - 70 cents - Alfalfa, light amber,--67-cents - - - Buckwheat, amber, 61 cents - Buckwheat, dark amber, 55 - 61 cents INDIANA - Wildflowers, medium amber, 86 cents LOUISIANANA - Chinese Tallow, fight amber, 65 cents MICHIGAN - Mixed Flowers, medium amber, 90 cents - Napweed, medium amber, 86 cents MINNESOTA - Clover, white, 78 cents - Clover/Sunflowers, white, 70 cents MONTANA - Alfalfa, white, 74 cents - Clover, white, 68 - 76 cents . Clover, extra light amber, 74 cents - Sage, extra light amber, 76 cents NEBRASKA - Alfalfa, white, 75 cents - Cloven(Alfalfa, white, 68 - 70 cents N. DAKOTA - Clover, white, 68 - 75 cents - Clover, extra light amber, 63 cents OHIO - Clover, white, 75 cents OREGON - Alfalfa/Mixed Flowers, light amber, 61 cents - Alfalfa/Mixed Flowers, amber, 59 cents S. DAKOTA - Clover, white, 70 - 75 cents - Clover, light amber, 86 cents TEXAS - Chinese Tallow, light amber, 65 - 70 cents WASHINGTON - Carrot, light amber, 61 cents (small lot) - Clover, white, 72 - 75 cents . Loostrife, light amber, 63 cents - Loostrife, amber, 59 - 61 cents - Mint/Wildflowers, amber, 59 cents - Sage, extra light amber, 65 cents (small lot) - Vetch, white, 73 cents (small lot) WYOMING - Clover/Alfalfa, white, 75 cents Prices paid to Canadian beekeepers for unprocessed bulk honey by packers and importers in U.S. currency, f.o.b. shipping point, containers included unless otherwise stated. Duty and crossing charges extra. US-Cents per pound. MANITOBA - floral source unknown, extra fight amber, 75 cents Prices paid to importers for bulk honey, duty paid, containers included, cents per pound ex-dock or point of entry unless otherwise stated. EAST COAST ARGENTINA - Mixed Flowers, white, 64 - 67 - Mixed Flowers, extra light amber, 62 - Mixed Flowers, light amber, 62 cents WEST COAST MEXICO - Mixed Flowers, light amber, 58 cents CALIFORNIA BEESWAX MARKET SITUATION --- DECEMBER, 1997 (unbleached, raw beeswax, delivered to handlers's warehouse) Offerings of wax were about normal during December but some handlers still have warehouses full of wax they purchased last fall. Orders of wax products were fairly good during October and November but then declined in December. Prices being offered to producers were about steady for light colored wax and slightly lower for the darker wax. Prices in California for light wax ranged from $1.70 - 1.80. Dark colored wax was being purchased at $1.50 - 1.60 per pound. *HONEY MARKET REPORT was ripped off the United Stated Department of Agriculture without permission to use. History of US Honey Market, not necessarily today's market. PLEASE NOT THERE IS AND HAS NOT BEEN A MARKET FOR "ORGANIC" HONEY or have I in 40 years ever seen a price quoted for "ORGANIC" differentiates from any other bulk honey. This would indicate that the market is very small and the term "ORGANIC" does not differentiate in the value of all Honey which by definition and law must be pure. The world honey market today is so thin compared to other world commodities that even the quoted prices for bulk honey as provided by the USDA and others is at times questionable and does not represent all bulk sales especially on the import side. Interesting to note that the NHB assessments collected on imported honey late into the summer far exceeded that collected for domestic production. ttul, the OLd Drone * This message certified 100% tagline free. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:25:31 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer In-Reply-To: <00054911900060@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Anyway, can anyone offer any other points in favor of a trailer, vs. a > pickup or other bed-truck? Besides the slight complications in driving, > I wonder if anyone has found this to be a better arrangement, at least on > a sideliner-scale. We use both flat beds and trailers. The trucks have a 16 foot by 8 foot deck and the trailers have about the same deck area as the trucks. The trailers have a greater capacity as far as weight is concerned, and tag along as extra capacity when we need it. With a trailer, we can double our payload, even considering that the truck itself has to carry fewer boxes becauseof the hitch weight. The rest of the time the trucks suffice. We have also cut the standard boxes off normal 3/4 and 1/2 tons and made simple decks to put on. I said it before -- and I'll say it again: If I had to keep bees out of only a standard pickup box rather than a flat deck, I'd quit. Period. In that regard, a small trailer for your truck offers promise, 'cause you can keep the standard truck box -- after all it is handy for carrying loose junk, and have a nice little flat bed trailer with hooks and ropes -- the best of both worlds! (Exclamation mark thanks to DE -- since he hasn't been around lately to use the entire available supply all up in just one post) I've also seen decks put on top of the box, sticking out a foot or so on each side. Altho' such decks are high, I think they are still better than reaching over the side of a typical box. And if your tailgate works, you have a huge cave to store your odds and ends. > My pickup has a permanently frozen tailgate, so I have fun lifting the > supers over the sides. Gee. I'd fix that first. See your local auto wrecker -- preferably a rural one. Tip: Be prepared to wait around and be good humoured. Admire all the junk convincingly. Eventually they'll decide they like you and take pity and fix it for next to nothing -- especially if you are not too fussy about the colour. While you are there, talk about trailers and decks. Allen If you do get a trailer, be sure to read my post about the dangers carefully. That and a lot of discussion about trucks and trailers can be found in the logs. --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:25:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:29 PM 1/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >Anyway, can anyone offer any other points in favor of a trailer, vs. a >pickup or other bed-truck? Besides the slight complications in driving, I >wonder if anyone has found this to be a better arrangement, at least on a >sideliner-scale. Hi Bee Keeping Friends, Any configuration of beekeeping rolling stock depends on so many variable factors it is impossible to say this is best for all. Some of the arrangements I have used over the years start with a 1929 Model A Ford that came with a flat bed, was called the Ranch Wagon. I got mine 2nd hand for $35. cash from the old Pacific Telephone Company and it came with a full tank of gas, I added a new battery and drove it for several years. As my appetite for bees and the number of my hives grew to that then magic number of 100 that was surely enough for any one person to keep and make a living I got a bigger truck, a DODGE 3/4 ton and added a low flat bed and could carry about 50 hives if they were not too heavy. Sooner then later I found that 100 hives just was not enough of a challenge and went for the big time 1,000 hives and upgraded to a Ford two ton truck with boom bee hive loader that could carry 96 hives. After that I added a new truck each year along with more and more hives and one or more of my red two ton International Harvestor tilt cabs are still around as I guess since they were made by Mexican's in Canada they just keep on going for ever. Note, in those days any moderate size beekeeper could afford to buy a new truck every year, and I did, I guess those Canadian's and Mexican's worked a lot cheaper then. I never did finance a truck until I got my last new one and the sticker shock aged me three years as that's how long it took to pay for it except for the taxes which go on, and on, and UP. Then I got older and wiser and switched gears and reduced the number of hives to what I could almost take care of myself and tried a fork lift. I have pictures of that first one sticking with its forks buried in the ground up off it drivers, but I soon learned about fork lifts and how to drive them. Originally used one that I pulled behind a two ton truck on a small tip trailer and then switched to what I think is my last and maybe best setup. I use a Super Duty one ton Ford truck with a flat bed. I load the Swinger fork lift on the truck and pull a twenty foot trailer that holds 112 hives two high, 4x4. Best of all I use the fork lift not only to move the bee hives but also it is my hired man when I take off honey which I put on pallets and load on the truck with the fork lift. You can have many fork lifts or keep your bees arranged so that when you take off honey you pick the fork lift up at the last yard and use it at the next yard and (if you are in a protected area) leave it over night ready to pick up the next day for the next yard. You could carry it with you from yard to honey barn and I do when necessary. In any case here locally all but one of the beekeepers has switched to Swinger fork lifts. Most use a heavy two truck and load them up to three 4x4 bee pallets high. All use the fork lifts to take off honey. One beekeepers uses a fleet of heavy one ton pick me up and pulls little trailers each with a boom type bee hive loader and it also works out good for him. What ever you do check on your local laws as to driver classification, insurance, and tax rates. One thing that is nice about the lighter trucks and trailers is the annual costs of taxes, insurance, and driver licences are less. If you have to go commercial because the size of your truck here you would have to keep a log book, pay $50. every time some cop had a bad hair day, and when you get to be an old beekeeper with any of the many health problems that comes with time in service you could be refused a licence to operate your own equipment by the government you support with a lifetime of paying taxes. ttul, Andy- ... As doth the meadow-bee, (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:32:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Jack needs Dayton Beach FL USA for BVT (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there a beekeeper in the Dayton Beach area that could get in touch with Jack? Thanks for your help. Cordially yours, Jim James D. Satterfield Canton is about 40 mi/64 km 258 Ridge Pine Drive north of Atlanta, Georgia USA Canton GA 30114 USA 34.24N, 084.47W (770) 479-4784 TBH Beekeeping: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm Mother Crochets: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/mom/crochet.htm Old Jim's Fowl Page: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/fowl/fowl.htm ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:03:44 -0500 From: jtrovato@octonline.com To: jsatt@gsu.edu Subject: BVT My name is Jack. I have Multiple Sclerosis. I have been doing bee stings as a form of therapy. You may have heard of it. I have had some success with it. Any how here is my question to you. I live in-around Toronto Ontario Canada. I plan on taking a holiday in Daytona Beach around the 1st of March. Can you help me find someone in that vicinity that keeps bees, and would provide me with some? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am looking forward in hearing back from you soon. "Bee Well"... God bless..... Jack ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:50:34 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Puerto Rico? Comments: To: jinnah@river.netrover.com On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:02:25 -0500 jinnah@river.netrover.com writes: >>the extension apiculturist, Daniel >>Pesante, at UPR animal science dept., pob 5000,mayaguez,PR >00681,phone >>(809)2653854. the apiary inspector, >>Nilda Perez, at the PR dept. of agriculture, san juan, PR 10163, >phone >>(809)7244627. >> local association contact, gregorio >>rivera, pob 471, Lares, PR 00669, in the central highlands. >> >>Hi Tomas, > Do you have an e-mail address for any of the above? >Sincerely, >Abbas > > sorry, none was given in the source i found...btw, forgot to mention in the first posting that P.R. is now officially africanized, so travelers bee aware...and please send back any updates on what 's going on in Borinquen, beewise, thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:09:40 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Constill Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 16 Jan 1998 to 17 Jan 1998 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Regarding cities where beekeeping is illegal- The Village of Patchogue, Long Island (South Shore, half way between New York City and Montauk Point) has an ordinance prohibiting anyone harboring infestations of insects, aimed of course at beekeepers. My father-in-law said that every one in the village was breaking the law, because in the old houses, everyone will be harboring infestations of insects- termites! We live 4 miles west of Patchogue, in Bayport, have 4 hives on 1/4 acre. Our next door neighbor didn't even remember that we kept bees untill we presented her with our first jar of honey 16 years ago. In a neighboring town there was a beekeeper who had his hives in the upper floor of an old garage or barn. He owned a local laundromat and used the cotton socks (the ones that disappear from your drier) for his smoker fuel. What a fascinating hobby this is. Have you folks noticed the huge amount of bee "stuff" there is to buy these days, from wall plaques to cabinet door pulls to teddy bears dressed in bee costumes, and all sorts of fabrics with bee motifs. We are redecorating our kitchen to show off our skep collection, to put up all the plaques and cards we have collected. One thing I am looking for is a skep shaped brass bell. I have several ceramic one, but a brass one would be a nice addition. We just sent in an order for some Buckfast bees for the spring. Looking forward to trying these out, we have 2 italian and one Carni hive now. Bee talking to you- Conni and Clifford Still ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:14:44 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Pierco plastic frames? Have added several hundred 6-1/4 in past couple years, mostly honey supered. Have had a few for several years in brood chambers as well.Ialso ,replace alot of wax foundatin with the pop in Pierco foundation. I find cells stay in better condition longer than the wax. When time to replace its not difficult to clean them up with a pressure washer. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:22:17 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: BestOfBee Subject: Re: Honey and Botulism In-Reply-To: <980113.100302.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Actually, I think Dave is correct when he states that the connection > between honey and botulism is anecdotal. I think when the original > investigation of the case in which honey was identified as the cause of > botulism (I believe it was in California), honey was identified as a > 'possible' source. However as Dave pointed out in his post, 'possible' > sources are everywhere. You can get a short annotated bibliography on the subject of honey and infant botulism by sending a message to botulism@beekeeping.co.nz Nick Wallingford nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Tauranga, NZ http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:17:52 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Hauling supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here in Australia there are two common forms of lifting. Handraulics and the armstrong lifter. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:01:51 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel - I started with a pick-up. Got to be the worst way. Inconvenient, and doesn't hold much. When bed rotted(1974 IH), replaced it with PT homemade one. Not too bad for 100 colonies, but not really big enough for a day's work. Graduated to a gooseneck trailer pulled by a pick-up. Real nice!. Can leave trailer behind, and use pick-up for deliveries, kid taxi, etc. Nice and low for loading. Still use it. Got bigger pick-up/diesel engine. Great rig. Never buy another gas engine!. Have a 1-ton ford too, with flatbed. Easier to get around with!. Especially in mud season and snow. Doesnt take much to get a trailer bogged down, even on the flat! Joel Govostes wrote: > The local commercial outfit I sometimes work for uses large flat-bed trucks > (1-1.5 ton?) for bringing in the crop. > > The beds on these trucks are about 5 feet off the ground, at least, > requiring one person to stay up there and stack the supers onto the > pallets. (As the day goes by the height of the truck bed seems to > increase, as the supers get "heavier!") > > This is okay, if there is always an "extra" person available, besides those > carrying supers from the hives. I think we get something like 250 mediums > on one load. The stacks are rolled off into the honey house with a hand > truck. > > Another local NY guy, with a smaller operation, tows a low trailer instead, > behind a smaller truck. This way he can load the supers right onto the > trailer, with a minumum of lifting upwards. (Plus the trailer can be > detatched and left wherever.) I believe he wheels the stacks off with a > hand-truck as well. > > Anyway, can anyone offer any other points in favor of a trailer, vs. a > pickup or other bed-truck? Besides the slight complications in driving, I > wonder if anyone has found this to be a better arrangement, at least on a > sideliner-scale. > > My pickup has a permanently frozen tailgate, so I have fun lifting the > supers over the sides. Fortunately it is a small truck (not full size > pickup) so it isn't too bad. > > Best regards and thanks for any input, > > JG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:05:03 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Goodman Subject: VARROACIDE FREE WAX MARKET Comments: To: APINET-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anyone let me know if there is or might be a market for varroacide free wax. I am looking for bulk outlets which will pay a premium for such wax which has been produced in an area where it is still not necessary to treat for varroa. It may be that there are other areas in northwest europe where this product will command a premium eg Germany. Many Thanks & Best Wishes, JOHN GOODMAN Regional Bee Inspector (North East of England) CSL National Bee Unit, UK Tel/Fax:+44 1833 690561 j.m.goodman@csl.gov.uk International Coordinator for the "Apinet" APINET BEE (Bee Educ & Ext) NEWS # ( http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/ ) # # WEBSITE+LISTSERVER+DIAL-UP # ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:16:07 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 16 Jan 1998 to 17 Jan 1998 In-Reply-To: <885099633.055932.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <885099633.055932.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >So, how many weeks in advance should I start feeding syrup and/or pollen to >stimulate brood rearing that will get me a healthy band of foragers by >April 12? At least six. I would start the last week in Feb., giving 3 weeks to hatch and three weeks as house bees before foraging. -- Tom ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:27:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: African bee Eradication as long as its practical. Which part of Florida are you living? Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- -also at Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:17:44 +0000 Richard Drutchas writes: >Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:44:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: African bee Ha-Ha,that was funny. Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- -also at Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:51:18 EST Steven Jeffries Barber writes: >According to Richard Drutchas: >> >> Does anyone know what the plan is for the african bee in florida? >> > Disney World, then Daytona bike week :) > >-- > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:28:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Address for On-Line Bees In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980117095151.29c77756@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:56 AM 1/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >The on-line Weather station, bee data sets, etc. is: http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees Hi Jerry & Friends, This is really a nice site as well it should be considering its contents and that the source of most all of it comes from a public think tank and a lot of skillful workers which is great and the way it should bee. I, like most in this on line group including those who have spent much time in getting up their own beekeeping web sites, some with no more help then the same effort and capital put in by most hobby beekeepers, are just amazed at the number and quality of beekeeping web pages and all seem many years ahead of me as I too am looking forward to putting my first web page up. I guess I am a little slow, well, not really a guess, I am, and I just know enough about web making to know its not all that easy no matter how many megabytes the web page generator program you are using. I spent more then a day looking for what makes a line space. Anyway after looking at so many web pages I do know what looks good to me and that's about it. Your pages looks good to me but I got to make a few comments just so you don't think I am kiss'en up for a big favor or something. Now about your web page that Main or Index screen is really, REALLY great BUT really needs to be reduced in size so one can at least see it without having to scroll one way or another. With that kind of professional art work and the effort that must have gone into making that page the effect would be much better if you could see it in one shot using IE or Netscape 4. Then I know all you Dr's and the rest of the world has no trouble reading metric measurements and you all know your centigrade and Fahrenheit numbers which is great but to this OLd Drone mindless except when it's O c. or 32 f. degrees, that I know. Picky, picky, yep, but then I assume since you express the rain fall in inches you might want to add a Fahrenheit table to the temperature scales and leave the rain fall in inches. Anyway I will be checking back, not to see if you make any changes I suggested, but to see the progress of all the honey bee S&M gadgets and gismos you have connected to those poor girls. Are you sure its all legal? Keep up the good works, ttul, Andy- ... The roadside flowers, too wet for the bee, "and the bee keepers truck is in over its axles" (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:50:56 -0600 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: From the end of the world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone noticed the increase in sensitivity and the number of flames during the full phases of the moon?This often opproaches the point of being totally rediculous though often very entertaining. wishing a happy and prosperous new year to all ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer Comments: To: allend@internode.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having had 2 back injuries, broken rib injuries and one damaged knee, I'm not really into heavy lifting. My solution has been to put my hives on concrete blocks about 16" off the ground. I put them in rows and with enough room to drive behind them. I have a flatbed trailer that is !8" high. when I need to move hives, I back up to them and lift them aboard with a hand truck. If I am removing supers it is a simple mater to drive behind and standing on the trailer, remove supers, stack them on a hand truck, then place the stack where it needs to be on the trailer. The trailer I use is fairly light duty but can accommodate about 20 hives and works well for a small operation. I have often thought abut having a "Tommy Gate" lift installed on my pickup. these lifts can lift as much as 1500 lbs. from ground level to bed level. These can be removed an installed on a different vehicle when you trade. I was wondering if anyone had tried this option. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:23:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer In-Reply-To: <002801bd242a$c5975ea0$6c506020@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have often thought about having a "Tommy Gate" lift installed on > my pickup. these lifts can lift as much as 1500 lbs. from ground > level to bed level. These can be removed an installed on a > different vehicle when you trade. I was wondering if anyone had > tried this option. I've seen it used -- in one case it was in conjunction with a one ton enclosed van with a rollup door. Worked well for a large hobbyist who kept bees in the country, but did his extracting in the middle of a large city. Another was on a three ton truck. I think a one ton is about as small a truck as will handle one safely, since a power tailgate is a heavy weight right that sits right on the very tail end of the truck. Such lifts are often hydraulic with an electric pump to provide power. Other models run on pumps mounted on the transmission or fan belt. If you watch your local 'Bargain Finder' paper, they are in there for reasonable prices from time to time. Some welding is required to mount them. Once again, try your friendly local auto wrecker, since they tend to accumulate such things and will often mount them for a reasonable price. My loader page has a loader and some forklifts, but no tailgate ones. http://www.internode.net/Honeybee/loader/loader.htm Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:28:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: bee feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BD2404.2DF2D500" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BD2404.2DF2D500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was some discussion the other day about feeding bees candy and = candy syrup. I stated at the time that I didn't think it was a good = idea because of the solids contained in the candy. =20 I have been searching for an article that I read concerning solids in = bee diet. In the article the author stated that even healthy bees would = void in the nest if they had to many solids in their diet and to much = time between cleansing flights. The author advised against using = powdered sugar to make bee candy because of the corn starch contained in = the sugar. In this author's opinion syrup made from granulated sugar or = High Fructose Corn Syrup was better for bees than honey, in winter, = because of solids contained in honey. In other words in winter, = ideally, bees should be feed pure carbohydrates.=20 If someone else has this article maybe they can more closely quote it as = I am trying to remember it having read it over a year ago. At my age = it's sometimes hard to remember last week. Har Har! =20 Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BD2404.2DF2D500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There was some discussion the other day about = feeding=20 bees candy and candy syrup.  I stated at the time that I didn't = think it=20 was a good idea because of the solids contained in the candy. =20
 
I have been searching for an article that I read concerning solids = in bee=20 diet.  In the article the author stated that even healthy bees = would void=20 in the nest if they had to many solids in their diet and to much time = between=20 cleansing flights.  The author advised against using powdered sugar = to make=20 bee candy because of the corn starch contained in the sugar.  In = this=20 author's opinion syrup made from granulated sugar or High Fructose Corn = Syrup=20 was better for bees than honey, in winter,  because of solids = contained in=20 honey.  In other words in winter, ideally, bees should be feed pure = carbohydrates.
 
If someone else has this article maybe they = can more=20 closely quote it as I am trying to remember it having read it over a = year=20 ago.  At my age it's sometimes hard to remember last week.  = Har=20 Har!
 
Frank & Phronsie Humphrey
beekeepr@bellsouth.net<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BD2404.2DF2D500-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:27:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: African bee => Florida needs to worry try the fla.dept.of agriculture site: http://www.fl-ag.com look for division of plant industry/bureau of plant & apiary inspection links and search there (still under construction), if not found try to e-mail your query or give them a call at (352)372-3505x114,128. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Address for On-Line Bees In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:28 AM 1/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:56 AM 1/17/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>The on-line Weather station, bee data sets, etc. is: > > >http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees > >Hi Jerry & Friends, > >This is really a nice site as well it should be considering its contents >and that the source of most all of it comes from a public think tank and a >lot of skillful workers which is great and the way it should bee. Much of the work was performed by students, learn-as-you-go. Everyone in my group has to be capable of using new technologies (but that is our purpose). Your pages looks good to me but I got to make a few >comments just so you don't think I am kiss'en up for a big favor or something. Andy, I'd expect nothing less. > >Now about your web page that Main or Index screen is really, REALLY great >BUT really needs to be reduced in size so one can at least see it without >having to scroll one way or another. With that kind of professional art >work and the effort that must have gone into making that page the effect >would be much better if you could see it in one shot using IE or Netscape 4. Andy, you have your display set to low resolution. On most of the newer PC and Macs, the screen resolution is set a notch higher and the images fit perfectly. If you want to see the detail of the JAVA graphs, you need to set your screen up to the next higher resolution, if you can. So in a sense, the large page is a bit of a prompt to get you to setup your system to make use of the graphs. If I make the image fit low resolution screens, it is small and hard to read on some browers, particularly for those on Web TV where the resolution is really poor and fonts difficult to see. Unfortunately, our sponsors want the on-line data capability. We do all of the web building (for public use) on our own time (except for the specific programming that puts the data on-line)and the occassional bit of help from beekeepers and an odd scholarship or two. I built the new entry page using one of Microsoft's new software programs, then found that it sized to fit high resolution monitors. I have a deadline to meet in early February and decided to go with this version. It was either that or delay it more. > >Then I know all you Dr's and the rest of the world has no trouble reading >metric measurements and you all know your centigrade and Fahrenheit numbers >which is great but to this OLd Drone mindless except when it's O c. or 32 >f. degrees, that I know. Picky, picky, yep, but then I assume since you >express the rain fall in inches you might want to add a Fahrenheit table to >the temperature scales and leave the rain fall in inches. Andy, the weather station outputs its temperature in C. We need to add a subroutine for the conversion. Our sponsors demand metric units (as does all of the science world). Again, we have to satisfy them first. But yes, when we get time. However, except for the U.S., all of the rest of Bee-L will probably appreciate degrees C. > >Anyway I will be checking back, not to see if you make any changes I >suggested, but to see the progress of all the honey bee S&M gadgets and >gismos you have connected to those poor girls. Are you sure its all legal? > If you could interview the bees, I suspect they might complain. On the other hand, they have built-in fans to help them cool, robber guards, etc. Pretty deluxe accomodations. And they will be the celebrities of the bee world. Thanks Jerry P.S. The system runs under Linux, so you could easily run this yourself. >Keep up the good works, > >ttul, Andy- > >... The roadside flowers, too wet for the bee, >"and the bee keepers truck is in over its axles" > > > >(c)Permission is given to copy this document >in any form, or to print for any use. > >(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer Comments: To: allend@internode.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The beauty of a "Tommy Gate" is that they come in sizes for just about any pickup. I have seen light duty models on small pickups such as S-10, Toyota etc.. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net snip >I think a one ton is about as small a truck as will handle one safely, >since a power tailgate is a heavy weight right that sits right on the >very >tail end of the truck. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:09:44 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Goodman Subject: HELP-BOB COMMS BLOCK! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" STOP SENDING STOP SENDING STOP SENDING! How do I stop the individual BEST OF BEE messages and just stick with the digest? Many thanks in anticipation ... phew! JOHN GOODMAN Regional Bee Inspector (North East of England) CSL National Bee Unit, UK Tel/Fax:+44 1833 690561 j.m.goodman@csl.gov.uk International Coordinator for the "Apinet" APINET BEE (Bee Educ & Ext) NEWS # ( http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/ ) # # WEBSITE+LISTSERVER+DIAL-UP # ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:23:25 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: bee feeding In-Reply-To: <004001bd242e$17cc4340$6c506020@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 11:28 AM 1/18/98 -0500, you wrote:

There was some discussion the other day about feeding bees candy and candy syrup.=A0 I stated at the time that I didn't think it was a good idea because of the solids contained in the candy.=A0

In years past I have feed tons of waste candy from a large candy factory. There is no problem here in California feeding sugar syrup made from hard candies as they are made of pure sugar and what few other ingredients are added such as flavors are lost to the air in the melting process or can be removed by hand if they are contained in a small amount of fat as it will float to the top.

I learned by experience how little "cold" water to add to a tank or drum of hard candy. Using cold water takes a little longer but if one is not in a hurry the candy will be all liquid over night using a small amount of cold water. The resulting sugar syrup will be colorful for sure depending on what colored food dyes were used in the=20 candy.

The only problem I ever had was in bulk feeding a yard of 200 single's to build them up before the flow. They did real well and were chuck a block by the time the flow started. I was a few days late in supering them and they were glued to the ground and the tops were nailed down with wax but I got them supered with a couple full depths each.

Several weeks later I returned and was able to remove a very nice water white sage crop.

The STINGER,  The next day as I watched the old steam knives remove the heavy capping I swallowed my cud of tobac when I saw some of the honey was RED, GREEN, and YELLOW and I learned a lesson about bees moving honey out of the bottoms to the supers to make room for more brood, nectar, and pollen.    

It all ended well as the honey in total was not off colored by the dyes in the syrup fed earlier by the time it reached the top of the twenty drum storage tanks I use for bulk honey from the extractor. When I drummed it up for shipment the color grade was white but I learned a lesson about feeding bees any sugar syrup and that is there is no way if you feed anything just before a honey flow to keep some of it from getting mixed in with the honey.

I guess I just shot myself in the foot as far as have "ORGANIC" labeling for my honey goes, but sad to say in this state the word "organic" as applied to honey in the past has only been proof that if honey is not handled properly it may not spoil as organic fruit and vegetables do but it will naturally become very unattractive to the consumer in a few weeks on the shelf and has/does.

ttul, the OLd Drone

"Bannwabe"..Natural Verroa Mite Control

*not available in the US, SA, GB, Canada or
any other country that regulates chemicals*


(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.

(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE  AT OWN=20 RISK!
========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:03:07 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Soap Making Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I recently came across a comment about making soap, from I believe, beeswax. The article did not specify how to do it but laid claim to the beneficial effects of such a product. I was wondering if any body on the list knows of the procedure to make soap. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg North Longitude 06 Deg West ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:03:08 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Taranov Board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I was recently studying the concept of the Taranov Board to control swarms. The hive concerned must be on the point of swarming, i.e there should be advanced queen cells. You do not have to find the queen, which in my opinion is a major advantage of the system. From my understanding, it works as follows: Place the Taranov board in such a way as to form an inclined plane between the hive entrance and the ground. The upper end of the inclined plane should be about 10cm from the hive entrance or landing board. A white sheet can be placed with advantage at the ground end of the board. Shake all of the bees on all frames which do not have queen cells on to the board/sheet. The queen will be shaken off also. Where there are queen cells on a frame, this frame should be brushed on to the Taranov board to avoid damage to the queen cell contents. All of the frames are now returned to the hive. The bees now walk up the Taranov board. When they reach the top of the board, those bees which can fly will fly into the hive. The bees which cannot fly, (the nurse bees), will walk around the edge of the board and cluster with the queen on the underside. We now have a cluster of bees which we can hive that evening. Since they are a swarm, they have lost all knowledge of their previous hive, so that they can be hived within the apiary. What puzzles me about this is, that in my opinion, this 'swarm' is not the same as the real swarm which would in all probability have emerged a few days later if the Taranov board had not been used. In the case of a real swarm, the bees would have consisted mostly of flying bees, whereas the 'swarm' induced by the Taranov system consists mostly if not all of nurse (non flying) bees. How then can the Taranov system claim, that it is duplicating to the beekeepers timetable, what would have happened naturally?. Since I am a new beekeeper I am most likely missing something. If anybody can help to answer this conundrum for me, I would be most grateful. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg North Longitude 06 Deg West ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:21:15 -0500 Reply-To: ddouble@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David & Bobbi Double Subject: Re: Soap Making MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, My wife is in to making various types of soaps. There are many recipes such as: http://www.fragrant.demon.co.uk/elaine2.html http://members.aol.com/oelaineo/soapmaking.html There are soap lists as well. Good Luck Dave Double ddouble@worldnet.att.net ---------- > From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Soap Making > Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 5:03 PM > > Hi All > > I recently came across a comment about making soap, from I believe, beeswax. > > The article did not specify how to do it but laid claim to the beneficial > effects of such a product. > > I was wondering if any body on the list knows of the procedure to make soap. > > Sincerely > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail cssl@iol.ie > Tel + 353 1 289 5269 > Fax + 353 1 289 9940 > > Latitude 53 Deg North > Longitude 06 Deg West ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:45:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Re: Soap Making MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, You can make soap with beeswax and it is a nice soap. You need to use water, lye and fat. The problems begin with the fact that the temperatures of these ingedients are critical and the amounts of each are critical also. Once you learn how to make basic soap you can start experimenting with using bees wax. And then you can get fancy by adding scents and things like oatmeal and pumice. There are many books you should be able to find to give you the amounts and temps. But beeswax makes a nice soap. ( be careful with the LYE) billy bee Maryland USA ---------- > From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Soap Making > Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 5:03 PM > > Hi All > > I recently came across a comment about making soap, from I believe, beeswax. > > The article did not specify how to do it but laid claim to the beneficial > effects of such a product. > > I was wondering if any body on the list knows of the procedure to make soap. > > Sincerely > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail cssl@iol.ie > Tel + 353 1 289 5269 > Fax + 353 1 289 9940 > > Latitude 53 Deg North > Longitude 06 Deg West ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:24:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Soap Making MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out www.sugarplum.net to learn all you ever wanted to know about soap making. They even have soap batching software for adjusting the size of batches. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 05:05 PM Subject: Soap Making >Hi All > >I recently came across a comment about making soap, from I believe, beeswax. > >The article did not specify how to do it but laid claim to the beneficial >effects of such a product. > >I was wondering if any body on the list knows of the procedure to make soap. > >Sincerely >Tom Barrett >49 South Park >Foxrock >Dublin 18 >Ireland > >e mail cssl@iol.ie >Tel + 353 1 289 5269 >Fax + 353 1 289 9940 > >Latitude 53 Deg North >Longitude 06 Deg West > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:31:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: soap making MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD243F.44ABEEE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD243F.44ABEEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! "Art of Soap Making " by Merilyn Mohr. Wonderful book. Glorybee sells this book and many other books pertaining to = beeswax,candle making,etc.. Midnitebee(herb) Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD243F.44ABEEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings!
"Art of = Soap Making=20 " by Merilyn Mohr. Wonderful book.
Glorybee sells this book and many other books = pertaining to=20 beeswax,candle making,etc..
Midnitebee(herb)
Holly-B Apiary
P.O.Box = 26
Wells,Maine=20 04090-0026
www.cybertours.com/~midnit= ebee
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD243F.44ABEEE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:31:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: hydraulic tailgate (was "hauling supers...") In-Reply-To: <000401bd2448$71a00680$5d506020@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Something similar is illustrated in the USDA's BEEKEEPING IN THE U.S.. Of course with that setup you still have to climb up and stack the supers once they are on the level of the bed. That is, unless they go onto pallets right on the gate, after which you can use a hand truck to position the stacks tight. (This is not easy with full supers - even in a big hot room, let alone on a flat bed. A certain amount of skill in handling the weight (whilst gingerly "steering") is required - especially in tight spots - as I have learned!) A power tailgate/lift can obviate much if not all of the lifting-loading, though. >The beauty of a "Tommy Gate" is that they come in sizes for just >about any pickup. I have seen light duty models on small pickups >such as S-10, Toyota etc.. > >Frank & Phronsie Humphrey >beekeepr@bellsouth.net > >snip >>I think a one ton is about as small a truck as will handle one >safely, >>since a power tailgate is a heavy weight right that sits right >on the >very >>tail end of the truck. > >Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:00:51 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Texan beekeeper? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I had a contact from someone trying to get in touch with an old friend. The beekeeper in question is Mr DeKorne) and I'm pretty sure he was either semi- or full-commercial in the Bryan/College Station/Navasota, Texas area. He was previous to that a beekeeper in Michigan or thereabouts. He has a daughter by the name of Karen. If anyone on the list can help locate him, I'd appreciate it. Email me direct... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:08:25 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: bee feeding In-Reply-To: <199801182023.MAA10908@mail.thegrid.net> from "Andy Nachbaur" at Jan 18, 98 12:23:25 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, that last message clearly shows you are learning to use html. But, it is a bit distracting to read e-mail with html code embedded in it. Most of the more recent Word Processors allow you to automatically save documents in either text or html. Thus, you can save in one mode for your web page and another for your e-mail. Also, in an earlier message you commented that it was taking some time to learn html. Learning html gives you more flexibility than the canned Word Processors and Web building software, but it also has its learning curve downside. However, I suspect that you haven't noticed that for most web pages, hitting View Source will allow you to see how someone else handled specific coding. Lots easier than trying to figure it on your own. JAVA and CGI scripts are usually hidden, but most standard HTML is readily available for view. Some of the newer web page making software tries to hide more of the coding. But there are plenty of examples that can be seen. Also, I assume that you have learned to move your cursor over an image and click the right button. Remember, the image you like may be copyrighted. Finally, you commented that you were moving from UNIX to Windows. There are software packages readily available for free that can turn your UNIX box into a SERVER. We just went the other direction, from PC to UNIX for more flexibility and better multi-tasking. Either will work, but if you know UNIX, which many of us don't, why move to Windows? Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:22:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Bee Lift Demo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Parden the bee-l subscribers from parts of the world other than North Eastern USA but I wanted to get the info out to people that may be interested. Alan Tremley a local bee operator is hosting a group of Australians touring the states who are marketing the "Billett Easyloader" a one man loader that has been advertised in ABJ. They will be at his home for one week 1/19-1/28. Any parties interested in arranging a Demonstration are asked to call Alan. Mail me if you are interested and I will send out his phone number rather than broadcast posting it to the world. Alan is located in Spencer NY not far from Corning and Ithaca NY between the fingerlakes region and Pennsylvania boarder. Cheers Mike Griggs ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:40:29 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" Subject: Re: Bee Lift Demo In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I saw the Billett Easyloader demonstrated at the recent meeting of the American Beekeeping Federation in Colorado Springs. Quite an innovation it seemed to me; developed by an Australian who was in an accident and told by a physician never to lift a beehive again. Tom Sanford >Alan Tremley a local bee operator is hosting a group of Australians touring >the states who are marketing the "Billett Easyloader" a one man loader >that has been advertised in ABJ. They will be at his home for one week >1/19-1/28. Any parties interested in arranging a Demonstration are asked >to call Alan. > >Mail me if you are interested and I will send out his phone number rather >than broadcast posting it to the world. > >Alan is located in Spencer NY not far from Corning and Ithaca NY between >the fingerlakes region and Pennsylvania boarder. > >Cheers Mike Griggs Mike Griggs > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:50:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: bee web pages> was bee feeding In-Reply-To: <199801190008.RAA26797@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:08 PM 1/18/98 -0700, you wrote: Hi Jerry & All, I was going to take this private but since so many beekeepers are into web pages I did not as web page making seems to be a part of beekeeping today as it is to bee science and bee regulation. >Andy, that last message clearly shows you are learning to use html. But, >it is a bit distracting to read e-mail with html code embedded in it. Sorry about that but like you say you need to get on the cutting edge and get a mail reader that handles the html code same as I need to get a more advanced pc to view your beautiful web page. I am actually working on that, (viewing your index page), as a friend has invited me over to see your pages on his Pet II and he says it looks OK to him and he is able to view it without the east-west scroll bars. He would not say it was great as he is a web page designer and not a beekeeper. Actually the html code was in the message I was adding to and was in fact someone's quite lines and I missed it as the mail reader I use, Eudora v.4 does html code and sends a quoted message without it and I just missed it. >Most of the more recent Word Processors allow you to automatically save >documents in either text or html. Thus, you can save in one mode for your >web page and another for your e-mail. >Also, in an earlier message you commented that it was taking some time >to learn html. Learning html gives you more flexibility than the canned >Word Processors and Web building software, but it also has its learning >curve downside. Yep, thats the way of the computer, but it is sure nice to have a program to start with. >However, I suspect that you haven't noticed that for most web pages, >hitting View Source will allow you to see how someone else handled >specific coding. Lots easier than trying to figure it on your own. Is that not stealing someone else's ideas? But it is sure a nice feature and I am printing them out as examples to follow. >JAVA and CGI scripts are usually hidden, but most standard HTML is readily >available for view. Some of the newer web page making software tries to >hide more of the coding. But there are plenty of examples that can be >seen. Also, I assume that you have learned to move your cursor over an >image and click the right button. I have found several test drives and shareware programs that are just full of Java examples but I also have found that most of that good stuff really slows down the visitor at least it does me with only a 200mph cp and X-2 PP modem and I will start with a minimum of fancy code so even the low end beekeeper can get in and out of my site. I hope to have people come looking for content. >Remember, the image you like may be copyrighted. You mean I got to dump all those Pam Andersons pictures off my hard drive, that will be a bad day when the computer police brake my door down and take my HD so they can eye ball them down in their squad room at the station house. >Finally, you commented that you were moving from UNIX to Windows. There >are software packages readily available for free that can turn your UNIX >box into a SERVER. We just went the other direction, from PC to UNIX for >more flexibility and better multi-tasking. Either will work, but if you >know UNIX, which many of us don't, why move to Windows? Actually I have several PC's and one that I use for my bbs is dos and run's a unix to unix mail program for the bbs, but that part it is down now as I am changing providers for the beenet.com address and may just go the web page route and won't need nothing but the winds of 95. I will miss the dos and Desqview task switching/multi-tasking. ttul, the OLd Drone ... How doth the little busy bee "no well with these electrodes up my privates" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:23:07 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: [Fwd: Looking for "White" honey.] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *FYI* REPLY ADDRESS AT BOTTOM OF PAGE X-Newsreader: Anawave Gravity v2.00 Xref: zinger.callamer.com sci.agriculture.beekeeping:9169 Hello, I am looking for white honey in 60 lb pails, or will accept different sizes if necessary. Currently I have a supplier for light amber honey, but I can't seem to find any white honey produced in New York state and/or the surrounding states (Penn, Ohio..etc). I don't know what flavor of honey comes white (It really looks more like beige to me) such as Alfalfa or Clover. I have ordered white clover honey samples from an apiary but the sample I received was more of a very lite colored amber. Would anyone know of a geographical area in the US that might produce this honey? I have a large lists of honey producers, and any information really would help, otherwise I would have to call apairy's individually to inquire if they carry white honey. Thanks in advance, - Saleh ----------------------------------------------------------- Saleh Jamil Jamil10@Buffnet.Net Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless....but most importantly change what needs to be changed so that things work better. ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:24:23 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pollinator Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Anticipating Spring (feeding) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-17 18:47:42 EST, ghankins@ac.net (Greg Hankins) writes: << I'm in the southern end of the North Carolina piedmont. Data from the state university tells me I'll see blackberry bloom the second week in April (following two months of maple bloom and a month of dandelion), followed a week later by some clovers, and a couple of weeks later by tulip popular. I'm keen to catch some honey from the blackberry and the tulip poplar. So, how many weeks in advance should I start feeding syrup and/or pollen to stimulate brood rearing that will get me a healthy band of foragers by April 12? If it's 21 days from egg to bee, and another 10 for newly emerged worker to move outside the hive, it seems I'd want to begin stimulating strong egg-laying at least six weeks out (about March 1) through feeding both syrup and pollen substitute.>> We start stimulative feeding here in S. Carolina about the end of February. I have never seen any need for pollen supplements, as there is a generous natural supply in late winter and spring. The best hives are given a second brood box, so they can produce nucs. Once you start, you cannot stop, as bees build quickly and run out of reserves just as quickly, if you neglect them for a few poor days. While pollen is plentiful, nectar is not, at least until the end of March. Maple bloom is not two months; it is early, quite brief, and is followed by several weeks of dearth. It tends to stimulate the queens, so the bees expend all the maple, and then quickly start using up remaining honey reserves. Another caveat: bees will transition practically overnight from needing feed to wanting to blow off swarms when you feed like this. So keep on top of things. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:24:21 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pollinator Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-18 11:04:24 EST, beekeepr@bellsouth.net (Frank Humphrey) writes: << I have often thought abut having a "Tommy Gate" lift installed on my pickup. these lifts can lift as much as 1500 lbs. from ground level to bed level. These can be removed an installed on a different vehicle when you trade. I was wondering if anyone had tried this option. >> I have a hydraulic tailgate on my one ton truck. I bought it for honey drums, but am now using it more and more for moving bees, even supers. It does not speed up the work, but sure saves the strain on one's back. I hated to admit that I can no longer sling around hundred pound objects, but it is true. My bottom boards are made up to be a pallet for the hand truck. I've always done a lot of the lighter work with a pickup and a 4x9 flatbed trailer. A pickup is a lousy vehicle for hauling bees, but great for tools. If I had only the pickup, I'd take off the box and put a flatbed on it. The trailer will easily haul 30 single hives (45 if they are not too heavy), and it makes a great workbench too. Bees and equipment are strapped on the trailer with a smaller version of the nylon ratchet straps that the big truckers use. It is a great tool, available at WalMart or Lowes lumber yards. I've never had one break, though I've run over the ratchet and ruined them. The hyraulic tailgate is a great addition, though expensive. We have no loading dock, and I had to load and unload drums with ingenuity (dangerously) or with borrowed equipment. When I first got the tailgate, I put a honey drum on it and played with it for an hour or so. It was more fun than I've had since I saw my first flush toilet! Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:24:12 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: bee web pages> was bee feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur wrote: > >Andy, that last message clearly shows you are learning to use html. But, > >it is a bit distracting to read e-mail with html code embedded in it. > > Sorry about that but like you say you need to get on the cutting edge and > get a mail reader that handles the html code same as I need to get a more > advanced pc to view your beautiful web page. I am actually working on > that, (viewing your index page), as a friend has invited me over to see > your pages on his Pet II and he says it looks OK to him and he is able to > view it without the east-west scroll bars. He would not say it was great as > he is a web page designer and not a beekeeper. This is only related to ones monitor. Jerry is accurate about monitor display size but the problem is, most people browsing the internet are still on a 14" monitor that will not accommodate pages the size of Jerry's. You also really hurt the web tv people by going wider than 474 (somewhere around there) pixels as they can't do anything about it but scroll. Just be happy we all don't have to view web pages from window sizes that AOL uses!!! > >Also, in an earlier message you commented that it was taking some time > >to learn html. Learning html gives you more flexibility than the canned > >Word Processors and Web building software, but it also has its learning > >curve downside. > > Yep, thats the way of the computer, but it is sure nice to have a program > to start with. > > >However, I suspect that you haven't noticed that for most web pages, > >hitting View Source will allow you to see how someone else handled > >specific coding. Lots easier than trying to figure it on your own. > > Is that not stealing someone else's ideas? But it is sure a nice feature > and I am printing them out as examples to follow. Yikes! There are lots more interesting things to do with ones time than to create web pages using raw HTML code. I guess real geeks do it that way but with all the different editors out there (of which some are free), the need to write code is limited to tweeking something that your editor won't do. > I have found several test drives and shareware programs that are just full > of Java examples but I also have found that most of that good stuff really > slows down the visitor at least it does me with only a 200mph cp and X-2 PP > modem and I will start with a minimum of fancy code so even the low end > beekeeper can get in and out of my site. I hope to have people come looking > for content. You make a good point. I would be very careful using cutting edge technology in ones website as 90 percent of those visiting your site are still on the dull edge of technology. > >Remember, the image you like may be copyrighted. > > You mean I got to dump all those Pam Andersons pictures off my hard drive, It all depends on how you got them. I assume Pam gave them to you herself in which case you keep them and Hefner and the police get nothing. :>) Be sure to let us know when you get your site up so we can check out how you handled specific coding. Regards -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:25:34 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: [Fwd: Looking for "White" honey.] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forget NY or VT this year. Didn't make any "white" honey in '97. Try the northern plains? Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur ) wrote: > *FYI* REPLY ADDRESS AT BOTTOM OF PAGE > X-Newsreader: Anawave Gravity v2.00 > Xref: zinger.callamer.com sci.agriculture.beekeeping:9169 > > Hello, > > I am looking for white honey in 60 lb pails, or will accept different > sizes if necessary. Currently I have a supplier for light amber honey, > but I can't seem to find any white honey produced in New York state > and/or the surrounding states (Penn, Ohio..etc). I don't know what > flavor of honey comes white (It really looks more like beige to me) such > as Alfalfa or Clover. > > I have ordered white clover honey samples from an apiary but the sample I > received was more of a very lite colored amber. > > Would anyone know of a geographical area in the US that might produce > this honey? I have a large lists of honey producers, and any information > really would help, otherwise I would have to call apairy's individually > to inquire if they carry white honey. > > Thanks in advance, > > - Saleh > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Saleh Jamil > Jamil10@Buffnet.Net > > Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless....but most > importantly change what needs to be changed so that things > work better. > ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:27:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: PSU Honey Bee Lab Homepage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3D5C2B45E85C5E3616E797BA" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3D5C2B45E85C5E3616E797BA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here is penn states bee page http://www.psu.edu/dept/beehive/index.html --------------3D5C2B45E85C5E3616E797BA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="index.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="index.html" Content-Base: "http://www.psu.edu/dept/beehive/index. html" PSU Honey Bee Lab Homepage

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--------------3D5C2B45E85C5E3616E797BA-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:00:32 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James C. King" Subject: "Tommy Gate" Lift for a pickup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Regarding Frank and Phronsie Humphrey's recent question if anyone has tried a Tommy Gate on a pickup truck, I have not, but do have a 1000 lb. capacity Tommy Gate on my 11,000 GVW F-350 stake body truck. This works quite well in my small outfit. I can move 2 story hives by driving behind them and moving them to the lift at ground level. When taking honey off, I place small pallets on the lift and accumulate 3 or 4 piles, raise the lift to bed level and then move them forward with a hand cart. Unloading is just the reverse, using the hand cart to roll supers on pallets into the honey house. Occasionally I move drums of honey which can be easily done substituting the barrel cart for the hand truck. The only problem I would see with using this gate on a pickup truck would be that the floor of the pickup is not smooth like the stake body and so would cause problems moving the hand and barrel carts. Maybe a sheet of plywood would help in the case of moving supers. I have found that plywood will not stand up to the pressure of the barrel cart wheels loaded with a full drum of honey (nor will the corrugated metal pickup truck floor). Also, the Tommy Gate has the advantage that the gate can be dropped and chained at a 90 degree angle to the back of the truck and thus the truck can to backed up to a loading dock in the normal fashion. Jim King, Rieglesville, PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:35:16 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Bees and equipment are strapped on the trailer with a smaller version of > the nylon ratchet straps that the big truckers use. It is a great tool, > available at WalMart or Lowes lumber yards. I've never had one break, > though I've run over the ratchet and ruined them. We use the 2" straps that are available at Costco (better versions are available elsewhere too). We also use the 4" commercial truckers' straps with weld-on winches on one of our trailers. However I personally find straps to be expensive, troublesome and a real time-waster in many bee applications. In their favour, heavy straps are particularly useful for tall front or back rows and some items that ropes won't hold and large loads of full supers, however for most loads, we use 1/2" rope and the beekeepers' knot that Nick posted pointers to some time back. We've found that the time taken to sort out straps is excessive compared to a properly coiled rope. For those who do not know simple knots like the square knot and it's variations, the bowline, and several basic hitches -- and the proper uses of each knot -- ropes may pose a real challenge. Nonetheless ropes are very flexible, durable, cheap and quick. Knot tying is well worth learning. Moreover. ropes are relatively simple to store: just hand coil most of the rope, then whip the last several feet around the centre of the coil, making a tight waist. Then pull the last foot or so thru one opening and pull. If there is a loop permanently on one end, it can then be hung. We use 1/2" poly rope because it does not cut into boxes as badly as smaller rope and does not stretch much. Moreover it does not tangle easily. We cut the ropes 26' long and either tie or splice a 3" eye on one end to go on a hook under the deck. The other end ties onto either a hook or the rround rail we have running under the deck. I can shake out and tie a rope faster than talk about it, and I can tie four ropes while another fella might get one strap on. Straps do have their uses and we always carry 5 or so on each truck. For storing and transporting the straps, we've come to just making a ball of each one without particular care about twists. If we fuss and straighten them when rolling them up for storage, we find that often as not we re-introduce the twists when unrolling, so there is no point in fiddling. BTW, in use, we always introduce a twist in the strap where it comes down each side of a load and also where it crosses the top of the load, since otherwise the strap will hum in the wind and wear through at a sharp edge -- like the edge of the top super. Allen --- * Want to cut the volume of mail from BEE-L? * Want to improve the signal to noise ratio? Send email to honeybee@systronix.net saying join bestofbee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Dead Bees Mom and Dad were trying to console their son, a beekeeper. "You know, it's not your fault that your bees died". Their son was having none of it. Dad said, "You know, they are probably up in heaven right now with God." The little kid said, "What would God want with dead bees?" Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:04:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: Package o bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for a package of bees and some foundation I would prfer to get it from some1 around gettysburg Ian chesnick 8 Champion tr Fairfield PA 17320 chestnic@cvn.net 717 642 8888 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:44:32 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: Re: Package o bees Clint Walker III Walker Apiaries Walker Honey Company PO BOX 615 ROGERS TEXAS 76569 254.983.BEES WALKER_HONEYBEES@JUNO.COM Package Bees, Italian Queens, Varietal Honeys, Beeswax On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:04:16 -0500 "A.S. Chesnick" writes: >I am looking for a package of bees and some foundation >I would prfer to get it from some1 around gettysburg > >Ian chesnick >8 Champion tr >Fairfield PA 17320 >chestnic@cvn.net >717 642 8888 > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:21:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: Re: Package o bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TEXAS?!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:23:55 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Lewis Organization: Island Apiaries (Fiji) Ltd. Subject: Re: Employment Opportunity for '98 Crop Year MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, In response to your call for bee keepers as requested from your friend. Perhaps you can pass this along. There is a fellow here in Fiji that is interested. Prama Rath is currently a bee keeper/farm manager here in Fiji. Perhaps you an pass this message on to the interested party. His contact is: Prama Rath Box 188 Nausori Fiji Phone (679) 479-726 I can relay messages though this e-mail address Prama's qualifications are listed below. He asks what is the wages of a beekeeper over there, how long the job is expected to last, and if accommodation is provided or is readily available. He says long hours and weekend work are not a problem. Prama's qualifications: July 1991 Certificate of Achievement: Honey bee pest and diseases workshop; Centre for Appropriate Technology and Development, Nadave, Fiji July 1991 Certificate of Achievement, Honey Bee Pest and Diseases Workshop; Centre for Appropriate Technology and Development, Nadave, Fiji February 1992 Certificate of Achievement: Honey Handling, Packaging and Marketing; Centre for Appropriate Technology and Development, Nadave, Fiji February 1991 Certificate of Achievement: Integrated Management Approach for Successful Bee Keeping; Centre for Appropriate Technology and Development, Nadave, Fiji October 1992 Certificate of Achievement: Queen Rearing, Requeening and Marketing, Centre for Appropriate Technology and Development, Nadave, Fiji June 1995 Certificate of Achievement: A Skills Based Training Course in Tropical Beekeeping; Telford Rural Polytechnic, Balclutha, New Zealand. (Held in Fiji under the auspices of the Ministry of Agriculture) Work experience: 1989 to present Farm Manager for Ramoas Honey Company, Nausori, Fiji. Beekeeping duties include hive management, grafting and queen rearing, harvesting, packing, marketing and sales. Farm duties. 1970 - 1989 Worked in the construction industry as a Tradesman. Skills include: plastering, brick laying, tile laying, wall paper, painting. Regards, John Lewis Fiji Kevin & Ann Christensen wrote: > A commercial beekeeper from Northeast Alberta, Canada asked if I would let > you all know that he is looking for help for this coming season. > > Contact : Dave Tharle > > Phone or Fax: 403-826-6013 > > Kevin Christensen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:29:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Having your cake/think-learn-enjoy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD253A.68787EA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD253A.68787EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! I have included more articles about beekeeping techniques by George = Imirie. THINK-LEARN-ENJOY!! Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD253A.68787EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings!
I have included more articles about = beekeeping=20 techniques by George Imirie.
THINK-LEARN-ENJOY!!
 
Holly-B Apiary
P.O.Box = 26
Wells,Maine=20 04090-0026
www.cybertours.com/~midnit= ebee
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD253A.68787EA0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:43:52 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: NH Beekeepers Activities 7 CALENDAR March 28 - New Hampshire Beekeepers Association Spring Program, Hart s Turkey Farm Restaurant, Meredith, NH. For further information call Mike Bayko, Sec. NHBA at 603-424-5477; or Mike Zorawowicz, V.P. NHBA at 603-483-2063 (email- zzme95@grolen.com). 7 COMING EVENTS New Hampshire The Spring Program of the New Hampshire Beekeepers Association is scheduled for Saturday, March 28, at Hart s Turkey Farm Restaurant in Meredith , NH. Keynote speaker will be Dr. Medhat Nasr from the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada. His topics are: 1.] Integrated Parasitic Mite Management (IPMM) in Honey Bees: Ontario approach. 2.] Who needs bad Queens? Registration is from 9 - 9:30 a.m. and the cost is $15 which will include, in the morning session - coffee and pastries; afternoon session - buffet lunch. The program will end at 3 p.m. For further information contact Mike Bayko, Sec. NHBA at 603-424-5477; or Mike Zorawowicz, V.P. NHBA at 603-483-2063 (email- zzme95@grolen.com). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:28:56 -0900 Reply-To: beeman@alaska.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Wheast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was mentioned recently on a supplemental feeding thread that wheast is available again. Does anyone have a source? Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:20:42 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Goodman Subject: BEEKEEPERS IN SE SPAIN Comments: To: APINET-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A colleague of mine, Phil Cunningham the Seasonal Bee Inspector for South Yorkshire, England, is planning a trip to SE Spain in March, 1998 and hopes to visit a few beekeepers in the area. He plans to hire a car for a couple of weeks so should be able to travel fairly extensively in that part of Spain. Naturally, he would be happy to speak to any local associations which might be interested to learn more about beekeeping in Britain. Any talks he gives will need to be in English but no doubt someone locally could translate the essentials into Castillian or Valllenciana. Since he has no email at present please reply via John Goodman. JOHN GOODMAN Regional Bee Inspector (North East of England) CSL National Bee Unit, UK Tel/Fax:+44 1833 690561 j.m.goodman@csl.gov.uk International Coordinator for the "Apinet" APINET BEE (Bee Educ & Ext) NEWS # ( http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/ ) # # WEBSITE+LISTSERVER+DIAL-UP # ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:40:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gcbowley Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Apis mellifera Laboriosa or Dorsata Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I would like to learn more about these strains of honey bee. Is anyone actively using them? Since Laboriosa is the largest known honey bee (right up there with Dorsata) it is my understanding that these bee are very productive but there does not seem to be much done in the way of studying them. I would like to experiement with these bees but I haven't come across much information about them. Has anyone had any experience with these bees? Gene Bowley North Carolina USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:02:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Apis mellifera Laboriosa or Dorsata Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dr. Ben Underwood studied the natural history of A. laboriosa in Nepal, as his master's degree project at Cornell. That was in early 80's, when he was working with Roger Morse. His thesis might be available for your parousal through inter-library loan or something. It is a very interesting study, covering biology, taxonomy, and distribution of those largest honey bees. He also describes the local traditions of honey-hunting with A. laboriosa, how it ties in with the native culture, religion, etc. The nests are harvested from cliff-sides and both honey and brood consumed. The large, single comb nests are destroyed, although I have seen photos of dorsata nests inside shelters, where "management" possibilities were under study. The bibliography in Underwood's thesis would provide many references to the species, though in the literature there has been more or less distinction between laboriosa and the more widespread dorsata. There was also a National Geographic (I think) piece on the Nepalese honey-hunters a few years back, following Dr. Underwood's work. Maybe you can find a reference on the Net... >I would like to learn more about these strains of honey bee. Is anyone >actively using them? Since Laboriosa is the largest known honey bee (right up >there with Dorsata) it is my understanding that these bee are very productive >but there does not seem to be much done in the way of studying them. I would >like to experiement with these bees but I haven't come across much information >about them. Has anyone had any experience with these bees? > >Gene Bowley >North Carolina USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:05:36 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L In-Reply-To: <980115.145532.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Aaron I subscribed to BEE-L many years ago, but since then my mailing system has changed. I found that I could no longer send mail to the list (even though I still received postings from Bee-L). I resubscribed (I think my mail server is now called 'soda' rather than 'thor' now) and can send mail OK again. BUT even though I have successfully set my mail options to NOMAIL, I still get all the BEE-L postings - I'm getting it all twice!!! I can't remove my 'old' persona - can you delete it for me? I still want to subscribe to the list, but I'm getting swamped with mail! Hope you can help Best wishes Pam =================================================== Dr Pamela Munn, Deputy Director and Editor International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Tel: (+44) 1222 372409 Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 Email: munnpa@cf.ac.uk =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:12:46 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Organization: SMCOE Subject: Pennrose uncapper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee people! I just bought a Pennrose uncapping machine. It appears to be 10 days older then hell but works just fine. I guess it is about 20+ years old. Is there anyone out there, especially the folks from "Down Under" who might have an old manual they can copy or an address I can write to, to obtain maintainance and operating instructions for this beast??? Please e-mail me if you can help as the list will not be interested in the replys. Thanks very much, -- Mason Harris, MA (\ SMCOE Educational Audiologist -{ ||| 8- smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us (/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:50:32 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Microwaves and enzymes... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know of research related to the potential destruction of the various measurable enzymes of honey caused by microwaves? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:49:32 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Pollen books... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Can anyone on the list provide the details for particularly good books of microscopic photos of the pollens found in honey? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:14:04 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pilar de la =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=FAa?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tar=EDn?= Subject: allozyme analysis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello bee-L people=A1, I=B4m a PhD student from Spain and I=B4m working with honeybees from the Canaries trying to characterize these populations. Now I would like to do some allozyme analysis with the enzymes Malate deshidrogenase (Mdh) and Phosphoglucomutase (Pgm) but I=B4m having some problems with the starch gels so I=B4m thinking on changing to acrylamide gels, I will apreciate very much any suggestion like bibliography or, specially, recipes for the staining, buffers, etc. =20 Thanks in advance. Pilar Pilar De la R=FAa Departamento de Biologia Animal=20 Universidad de Murcia Apdo. 4021, Murcia, 30071, Spain Tlf. 34-68-307100 ext. 2308 Fax: 34-68-363963 pdelarua@fcu.um.es ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:54:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: FAITHAB Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 16 Jan 1998 to 17 Jan 1998 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-18 01:10:14 EST, you write: << Have you folks noticed the huge amount of bee "stuff" there is to buy these days, from wall plaques to cabinet door pulls to teddy bears dressed in bee costumes, and all sorts of fabrics with bee motifs. We are redecorating our kitchen to show off our skep collectio >> It would be great if you could share with the rest of us the addresses of catalogues where you find this stuff. Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:22:10 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Pollen books... Comments: To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kirk: A colour guide to pollenloads of the honey bee,IBRA, 1994 (no polle= n pict.) Sawyer honey: Rex Sawyer, Honey identification,1988 Sawyer pollen: Rex Sawyer, Pollen identification for Beekeepers, 1990 Hodges: The pollenloads of the honey bee, 1984 Ricciardelli D'Albore: Flora Apistica Italia, Federatione Apicoltore Ital= iani =B11995 Ricciardelli D'Albore: Textbook of Melissopalynology, Apimondia Publishin= g House, Budapest 1997 om my site is a (row/spartenic(?)) database with 1200 plants and the reference to those books http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/bijenweide.html Nick Wallingford wrote: > Can anyone on the list provide the details for particularly good > books of microscopic photos of the pollens found in honey? > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz > (/ NZ Beekeeping www.beekeeping.co.nz =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0 Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:13:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: FAITHAB Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-20 11:07:00 EST, you write: << BUT even though I have successfully set my mail options to NOMAIL, I still get all the BEE-L postings - I'm getting it all twice!!! >> I have to echo this. I have sent, according to someone's directions, a request to REsubscribe to Best of Bee but I too am getting everything twice with no beestyronix as the sender. Could someone please repeat just what I have to do to get OFF the main list and onto BofB only? Thanks. Faith Andrews Bedford Ivy Va and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:30:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: HENRY BOLANOS <104047.270@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Let me know when you find out. I like bees, but this is not what I wanted either. Regards, Henry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:53:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:13:55 EST FAITHAB writes: >In a message dated 98-01-20 11:07:00 EST, you write: >Could someone please repeat just what I >have to do to get OFF the main list and onto > BofB only? Thanks. ............................................................... Maybe this will help you... Al Needham ............................................................... From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Last Revised: January 31, 1997 *** Please save this message for future reference *** We are pleased to announce Best Of Bee, a new way to read BEE-L. (BEE-L is the internet mailing list for discussion of bees, wasps, etc.). As the volume has grown on BEE-L, a number of members have grown tired of receiving large numbers of messages daily, many of which are sent in error or not of general interest. Many worthy subscribers have simply given up and left. Therefore, to lighten the load, several list regulars (who merrily read *everything* anyhow), have agreed to select the best material (in their opinions) and re-post it to a new list, called Best of Bee (The '-l' is left off due to changing standards on the net regarding punctuation in list names). Since it is pretty well unanimous that BEE-L should not be split or censored, this provides a way for those who wish to read the list, but be selective and not be exposed to flames,and trivial or misdirected posts to enjoy a filtered version of BEE-L. Currently about 75% of the posts to BEE-L (or less) are being re-transmitted on BestOfBee. This varies from 0% to 100% on a given day. If you would like to try this new free service, simply send email to Honeybee@systronix.net saying join bestofbee You will shortly start receiving messages. IMPORTANT Additional Information For Current BEE-L Subscribers: --------------------------------------------------------------- If you get BEE-L currently, these messages from BestOfBee will be *duplicates* of *some* the ones you get from BEE-L presently, but some may be edited to remove excessive quotes from previous messages and bad formatting or gratutous material if they are otherwise suitable. Many messages from BEE-L will not merit repeating on bestofbee, since they are chatter, or redundant. After you are satisfied that the new list is working and get a feel for the degree of filtering, you may wish to send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SET BEE-L NOMAIL and thereafter read only the filtered messages -- if you like the way it works. You can get a full BEE-L log for comparison any time you like by sending email to the same LISTSEV, saying get BEE-L log9701b, (for example) where '97' is the year, '01' is the month, and 'b' is the (second) week of the month, or you may read them from Adam's Sunsite archives, the address of which is on my home page. IMPORTANT: You will still need your BEE-L subscription if you wish to post (or retreive BEE-L logs), since the only way to get a post to Best of Bee is through posting a message on BEE-L. We expect that soon you will be able to search these selected Best of Bee messages using a web brouser after a number have accumulated. This will give a searchable 'opinion base'. We may add some edited material from old BEE-L logs too. PLEASE NOTE: *No one* will be able to post to BestOfBee (regardless of what the welcome message says -- I haven't had time to fix it) except the three moderators, so direct all replies to Best of Bee articles to BEE-L where they will be read and perhaps selected for re-transmission. We hope this service helps more people to enjoy BEE-L, and that those who wish to post will do so freely now without fear of offending those who desire decorum and lower traffic levels. We are also open to constructive comments and ideas for improvement. Regards Allen W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper VE6CFK RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta Canada T0M 1Y0 Internet:dicka@cuug.ab.ca & allend@internode.net Honey. Bees, & Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:30:00 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As a NEW MEMBER of just 3 weeks, I will surely convert to B of B. As one of the 116 EAS Certified Master Beekeepers who has raised bees only for scientific study and interest for 65 years (1933), my interest in the BEE-L was to use it to try and UPGRADE today's beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS free of charge. At my age and having no time for foolishness, I was rapidly approaching the point of UNSUBSCRIBING to BEE-L; and get back to writing my final book dealing with beeKEEPING rather than HAVING bees. Thank you! George Imirie, Ph.D. Rockville, Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:21:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Best of Bee's First Anniversary In-Reply-To: <19980120.225331.3582.2.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > We are pleased to announce Best Of Bee... As the volume has grown on > BEE-L, a number of members have grown tired of receiving large numbers > of messages daily, many of which are sent in error or not of general > interest. Many worthy subscribers have simply given up and left... Thanks Al for passing that on. That was the original announcement for BoB. I noticed just the other day that it is now the first anniversary of Best of Bee (actually I got reminded by my annual bill from my provider :) and it got me thinking... One year ago, BoB was a controversial upstart. Our goals were to try to satisfy a wider range of readers by filtering out some of the tomfoolery here on BEE-L for the more time-challenged and/or sensitive among us, while leaving the BEE-L list open to free speech for the rest of us in the proletariat. Free speech by its very nature is free (surprise) and naturally includes everything from the erudite, polite and informed to the facetious, ignorant and accidental. The right to free speech sometimes has to be accompanied by the freedom not to listen :) We at BoB leaped into the breach. Have we accomplished anything? I note, looking back that BoB has relayed about 2,100 messages -- about 6 per day. I wish it had been fewer, but it is sure hard to tell which post is going to be the nugget some reader has been waiting for. I'm not sure how many messages passed through BEE-L in that time, but I suspect it must be at least twice that 2,100. Routinely, many posts passed on to BoB are edited to ensure quick readability and to foster steady blood pressure and tranquility in the BoB readership. (FWIW, I even cut my own innocuous posts back a bit -- for BoB only). I receive no complaints at all from the 440+ BoB subscribers -- even when I request feedback -- so I guess they are mostly happy or the server is down. FWIW, I know they sure weren't pleased when they suddenly started getting BEE-L again the other day, so I guess that proves something. However, I also do know that -- while we are steadily gaining readership on BoB -- we do lose people from BoB continuously, so maybe there is a natural lifetime for toughing it out on a list. Between the two lists, BEE-L and BoB, subscribership seems to top out around 1,200 (total) and, of course, we have to assume quite a bit of duplication between the two lists. I also know there are some who frequent sci.agriculture.beekeeping and never post here. Here on the BEE-L, I think most everyone -- the current crop of survivors at least -- are happy, too. Sure we have misdirected posts, occasional binaries, HTML posts, excessive quotes followed by 'Ata boy", a little pushing and shoving, and some foolin' around, but we have never had any really serious flame wars. Actually I can only remember two or three (hmmm... maybe four or five) real flames and they died out fast. It seems everyone usually ends up friends. And, since BoB started I think there is a whole lot less grumbling here on BEE-L than there used to be. What does the future hold for BEE-L and BoB? I don't know. Some day I hope to see some form of moderation here on BEE-L to damp out the accidental posts -- and the empty ones and the binaries, but not to stifle free speech. However, as an editor myself, I realise it is a job for someone -- and not a small job. I personally regard the BEE-L logs as a source of fascinating and searchable information and cringe everytime I see them diluted or polluted with long quotes, misinformation, and binaries (including my own). But then I am only one, and for others BEE-L is many other things -- and we do have to share. That is what makes BEE-L so vital -- the fact that no one viewpoint dominates. Sharing means compromising and accepting things are not going to always go the way we may personally wish. (FWIW, Sometimes, late at night, as I sit here at my ancient 486 2DX50, I imagine that -- perhaps -- there are even a few misguided souls reading BEE-L who do *not* wait in eager anticipation for my next missive. Such lack of appreciation is hard to imagine, I know, but I suspect it must be true from my knowledge of statstics, human nature -- and selected readings from my inbox). While I am waiting upon the day that BEE-L is moderated, I personally find BEE-L a real treasure and spend a lot of time panning here for gold. That gold, I try to refine for BoB. Sometimes I add in a bit from sci.agriculture.beekeeping too, although the signal to noise ratio is *much* better here IMO. In considering both these lists and their value to myself and others, I have to thank all the people who internationally give so freely and selflessly of things that in some industries might be considered 'trade secrets'. When I look back, I have to say that participating on BEE-L has certainly improved my beekeeping, my writing skills, and perhaps done something for my outlook and diplomacy (some may argue). Thank you everyone for your patience and good humour. As for BoB in 1998, we'll keep on trucking and hope that BoB continues growing and keeps with us at least some participants with us who would otherwise just fade away. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:47:47 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: sci.ag.beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone out there recently had trouble getting the messages on the sci.ag...beekeeping newsgroup? All the other groups I subscribe to are fine but I get a GPF every time I try to download the beekeeping newsgroup. This just started a few days ago. My guess is that there was a message on the group that directed you to a url and netscape could not handle it. But I still get a GPF even after I marked the newsgroup "read". Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:08:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GImasterBK wrote: > > As a NEW MEMBER of just 3 weeks, I will surely convert to B of B. As one of > the 116 EAS Certified Master Beekeepers who has raised bees only for > scientific study and interest for 65 years (1933), my interest in the BEE-L > was to use it to try and UPGRADE today's beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS free of > charge. > > At my age and having no time for foolishness, I was rapidly approaching the > point of UNSUBSCRIBING to BEE-L; and get back to writing my final book dealing > with beeKEEPING rather than HAVING bees. > Thank you! > George Imirie, Ph.D. > Rockville, Maryland Dear George, KINDLY UNSUBSCRIBE! I appreciate your generious offer to educate the havers to keepers. I think you are premature in classifying the entire membership as havers. There are many members who are keepers! Many of these keepers respond to these foolish questions privately and try to keep the BEE-L clean. The last thing I want to read is some one degrading and belittling the fine membeship of this group. David F. Verville Plaistow, NH ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:57:25 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: LALLEMENT Pascal 108006 Subject: For a french newsgroup about beekeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello. This message is the firts call for votes (of 3) about the creation of a newsgroup in french about beekeeping : fr.rec.apiculture . If you speak french, you may be interested in participating to this vote. If not, sorry for the disturbance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ceci est le premier appel ` voter pour la criation du groupe non modiri fr.rec.apiculture. Cet appel ` voter est simultaniment posti dans les groupes suivants : fr.usenet.forums.annonces fr.usenet.forums.evolution fr.rec.divers fr.rec.jardinage sci.agriculture.beekeeping La discussion formelle relative ` cette proposition s'est diroulie en dicembre 1997 et janvier 1998 dans , les appels ` discussion ayant iti postis dans les mjmes groupes que le prisent appel ` voter. Auteur de la charte : Pascal Lallement (pascal.lallement@cea.fr) Gestionnaire du vote : Pascal Lallement (pascal.lallement@cea.fr) Piriode de vote : les votes doivent jtre regus avant le 14 fivrier 1998 ` 23:59, heure de Paris. Comment voter : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Envoyer un courrier ilectronique ` : vote-fra@amandine.cea.fr Le corps de votre message doit contenir le bulletin de vote donni ci-dessous. Vous pouvez igalement ripondre ` ce message par mail avec votre lecteur de news, EN INCLUANT UNIQUEMENT LE BULLETIN DE VOTE ci-dessous, ET NON LE RESTE DE L'APPEL A VOTER. Pour remplir ce bulletin, il vous suffit d'indiquer 'oui' ou 'non' dans la case [Votre Vote] sur la ligne correspondant ` chaque groupe. Les adresses de courrier ilectronique des votants sont publiis ` la fin du vote dans l'article prisentant les risultats du vote. Il n'est pas privu de pouvoir cacher son adresse lorsque l'on vote. Il est igalement possible de s'abstenir en indiquant 'abstention' ou 'blanc' dans la case correspondante. -- BULLETIN DE VOTE -- A ENVOYER ` l'adresse email suivante : vote-fra@amandine.cea.fr Votre Nom: [Votre vote] Groupe ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [ ] criation fr.rec.apiculture -- FIN DU BULLETIN -- Modalitis de prise en compte des votes : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seuls les votes envoyis par courrier ilectronique sont pris en compte. Tous les autres types de votes, y compris ceux postis sur Usenet, seront ignoris. Les votes contradictoires dans un mjme bulletin ne seront pas comptabilisis. Veuillez utiliser votre adresse personnelle pour voter. Les adresses impersonnelles ou anonymes ne seront pas comptabilisies (par exemple: root, webmaster, usenet, adresses provenant d'"anonymizers"). Un seul bulletin de vote par votant est accepti. Cependant si vous votez plusieurs fois, seul votre dernier vote en date sera compti. Vous recevrez quelques jours aprhs avoir voti un accusi de riception de vote individuel. Si le girant du vote regoit en retour de l'accusi de riception individuel un courrier indiquant que votre adresse n'existe pas, votre vote sera considiri comme invalide. Si vous avez des questions ou des observations sur ce vote, vous pouvez me joindre ` l'adresse suivante : pascal.lallement@cea.fr Exemples de votes valides : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * Vote positif : From: arthur.martin@fai.fr (Arthur Martin) To: vote-fra@amandine.cea.fr [ oui ] criation de fr.rec.apiculture * Vote nigatif : From: arthur.martin@fai.fr (Arthur Martin) To: vote-fra@amandine.cea.fr [ non ] criation de fr.rec.apiculture * Vote blanc : From: arthur.martin@fai.fr (Arthur Martin) To: vote-fra@amandine.cea.fr [ blanc ] criation de fr.rec.apiculture Publication des risultats : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dans la semaine suivant la cltture du vote, les risultats seront publiis dans fr.usenet.forums.annonces ainsi que dans les groupes oy cet appel a iti posti. Une piriode d'attente d'une semaine s'ouvrira alors pour permettre de corriger les erreurs iventuelles et/ou de contester la validiti du groupe. Aprhs la piriode d'attente, s'il n'y a pas d'objections sirieuses, chaque groupe pour lequel il y a plus de 80 OUI que de NON, *ET* au moins 3 fois plus de votes OUI que de NON pourra jtre crii. ------------------------------------------------------------------- CHARTE DU FORUM NOM : fr.rec.apiculture STATUT : Non-Modiri DESCRIPTION : Forum sur l'apiculture. LANGUE : frangais OBJET : Le but de ce forum est de permettre aux personnes intiressies de discuter d'apiculture et d'ichanger des informations ` ce sujet. Ce forum concerne la vie des abeilles, leurs parasites, leurs maladies, les produits de la ruche, leur transformation, leur commercialisation et les techniques apicoles. Ce forum concerne l'apiculture sidentaire ou nomade. Voici une liste non exhaustive de thhmes pertinents : 7 Biologie des abeilles (les races, nutrition, la colonie, etc.) ; 7 Biologie appliquie (Pollinisation, silection, maladies, parasites, etc.) ; 7 Botanique apicole ; 7 Economie et ligislation (organisations apicoles, ligislation, etc.); 7 Histoire de l'apiculture ; 7 Conduite du rucher (essaimage naturel ou artificiel, ilevage des reines, hivernage, riunion de colonies, etc.) ; 7 Produits de la ruche (miel, pollen, gelie royale, propolis, etc.) ; 7 Matiriel (ruches, miellerie, etc.), etc. Les petites annonces de vente, d'achat sont accepties ` condition qu'elles ne soient pas ripities et qu'elles fassent l'objet d'un postage croisi avec le groupe didii a ce sujet : RAISON : L'apiculture est trhs populaires en France et dans les pays de langue francophone. Un forum sur le sujet permettrait de rassembler toutes les personnes intiressies. Il existe plusieurs mailing list en frangais sur ce sujet. Elles sont assez actives et regoivent environ une 10aine de messages par jour. Toutefois, la solution des mailing list est assez contraignante et un groupe de news serait plus adapti. Il existe un forum trhs actif en langue anglaise sur ce sujet sci.agriculture.beekeeping. Un forum en langue frangaise serait un plus pour la communauti francophone des apiculteurs. Ce forum sur l'apiculture est crii dans la hiirarchie fr.rec mais pourra ivoluer, dans le futur, dans la hiirarchie fr en fonction de l'ivolution de cette dernihre.. QUELQUES RAPPELS DE BON USAGE : Au cas oy un article aurait sa place sur plusieurs forums, il est possible de faire un postage croisi dans ces forums, ` condition de ne pas en abuser et de positionner la suite du message (champ " Followup-to: ") sur un seul forum. Les messages d'annonces de site Web concernant l'objet du forum sont acceptis, ` condition qu'ils ne soient pas ripitis et qu'ils fassent l'objet d'un postage croisi avec le forum didii ` ce sujet : (ce forum itant modiri, consultez sa charte avant de poster). Les rhgles en usage dans la hiirarchie fr s'appliquent ividemment ` ce forum, on rappellera en particulier que : 7 ce forum est d'expression francophone, il n'est pas interdit de doubler une contribution dans une autre langue, nianmoins, l'usage exclusif de l'anglais, par exemple, risque de se voir considiri comme particulihrement inconvenant. 7 les fichiers binaires, y compris les images, y sont interdits, et qu'on leur prifirera une rifirence de page Web ou de site FTP, 7 que les annonces commerciales et autres " Make Money Fast " y sont igalement interdits, et que leurs auteurs risquent le mipris de tous les lecteurs. 7 que pour priserver la qualiti des ichanges de ce groupe, on s'abstiendra de ripondre aux " Make money Fast ". FIN DE LA CHARTE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:55:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Goodbye and good riddance. We don't need anyone with your attitude on this list. with you on the list, the membership would drop to only one in short order. I for one have learned an awful lot from what you call "havers" as well as from the experts. One of the greatest source of ideas is new beekeepers. Some of us older beekeepers tend to get set in our ways and sometimes don't think to try something new. Quite often some newbe comes up with a good idea that is worth trying. We don't need someone on this list that will ridicule them. If you don't want to hear it, you don't belong here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One final post you could make is to tell us the name of your book so we will know what not to buy. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: David Verville To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 09:13 AM Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L >GImasterBK wrote: >> BEE-L >> was to use it to try and UPGRADE today's beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS free of >> charge. >> >> At my age and having no time for foolishness, I was rapidly approaching the >> point of UNSUBSCRIBING to BEE-L>Dear George, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:57:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Sturman Subject: Caught on the internet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Has anyone heard about the guy who was fined by the Texas Dept. of Agriculture for recommending Mite Solution over the Internet? At a recent Catskill Mountain Bee Club meeting, someone mentioned hearing of an individual giving advice about alternative mite remedies using something other than Apistan (gasp!) who got fined several hundred dollars. I would be interested in any information anyone might have about this event. I think that we need as many alternatives to nasty chemicals as we can get. Sandoz has a strangle-hold on the bee industry with Apistan. Meanwhile our bees are the victims as Varroa Mites build up a greater resistance to Apistan. Many commercial beekeepers are not using the product in the proper manner, because of the restraints of needing to manage many, many hives. It just gets too difficult to open and close hundreds of hives as they move them around the country following the growing seasons. It depends on us, the beekeepers of the US, whether they are hobbyists with 2 hives (like me) or they are commercial pollinators, honey producers, etc. with hundreds or thousands of hives, to make the noise in the right direction. Thanks for any feedback, comments, answers, or other correspondence. John Sturman Blue Moon Farm Lexington, NY john@sturman.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:56:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Matt Allan Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: South African beekeepers? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Good day, colleagues. I have been asked by a fellow beekeeper if I can make contact on his behalf with beekeepers in S Africa. Don Thomson is a knowledgeable, enthusiastic and committed beekeeper. He is travelling to S Africa in February, mainly to the Natal area, and is interested in seeing bees, particularly scutellata. I recommend his company. If anyone is able to give him a few hours of time, I am sure he would much appreciate it. Or any recommendations as to where he should go? Regards Matthew J Allan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:45:45 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Caught on the internet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Sturman wrote: > > Hi All, > > Has anyone heard about the guy who was fined by the Texas Dept. of > Agriculture for recommending Mite Solution over the Internet? At a John - I have this article from a few months back that makes mention of it. You might try contacting the writer for more info. It's Copyrighted so I have to include the tag. So long George! ---------------------------------------------- Subject: Imaginary Gardens - October 22, 1997 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:54:09 From: Richard Thieme To: rthieme@thiemeworks.com Free at Last? Not! by Richard Thieme Declan McCullagh, a writer for the Netly News, wrote recently of a beekeeper who advised others on Prodigy to get rid of parasites in the hive by mixing Mavrik with water and spraying the bottom of the hive. The Texas Department of Agriculture promptly charged him with violating a state law banning unapproved discussions of bee medicines and fined him $600. That, says McCullagh, violates his right to free speech. It also shows how quickly we can clamp down on the kind of environment that fosters creativity, needing to stamp out freedom and spontaneity in order to feel safe. We have all been in conversations in which the narrowest thinker in the room -- the one with the least ability to be flexible, the one terrified of life outside a rigid construction of reality -- succeeds in defining the parameters of the conversation. The person threatened most, hollers first. Others, at various places along the spectrum of flexibility, try to negotiate, but the Rigid One can't. The only job the fixed foot of the compass knows is how to stay stuck. Those who use the Myers Briggs Temperament Indicator -- a kind of thinking person's astrology chart -- will recognize the ends of the spectrum as "P" (who hates to foreclose options) and "J" (who writhes in pain if they don't have closure.) Obviously I'm a "P." But there's more evidence for openness than that. Experiments in artificial life indicate that the flow of information inside a system is maximized just on the edge of chaos, where we lean into our freedom like sailors hiking in a strong breeze. And chaos theory indicates that the most functional systems are open, evolving, and free. My intention for today? To vote for open and free, trusting the process to clarify what works -- in relationships, on the Internet, in the world. ******************************************************************** Imaginary Gardens is a daily reflection on techno/spirituality -- the interaction between ourselves, computer technology, and the ultimate concerns of our lives. To subscribe to Imaginary Gardens, send email to rthieme@thiemeworks.com with "subscribe gardens" in the body of the message. To unsubscribe, send an email to rthieme@thiemeworks.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. Imaginary Gardens and the weekly column, Islands in the Clickstream, are archived at the ThiemeWorks web site at http://www.thiemeworks.com. Copyright 1997 Richard Thieme. All rights reserved. ********************************************************************* -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:02:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: [Fwd: Attention TEXAS beekeepers - FREE SPEACH issued settled] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" *FYI* As requested. If reading this does not send chills up you spine then it obvious you may not have one! IMHO, ttul, the OLd Drone Reply-To: busykngt@mail.airmail.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55 Xref: zinger.callamer.com sci.agriculture.beekeeping:9190 Posted below is the result of a long battle (over two years) with one of our club members (Collin County Hobby Beekeepers Assoc. - Dallas, Texas area) and the state of Texas, Department of Agriculture. Unfortunately, the TDA backed down BEFORE the state statue was proven in court to be unconstitutional. This is a tactic the Texas Department of Agriculture took in order to perserve a BAD LAW and thus keep it "on the books". (IMHO, most likely to have at their disposal to cause future hassles for people). THANKS to those good lawyers who helped protect our (the people's) right of free speach in America. It's a good thing to know that our Bill of Rights are still safe and well in this day. BusyKnight Dallas, TX *************************************************************************** Texas Department of Agriculture Dismisses Free Speech Case Against Beekeeper After a two and a half year legal battle, the Texas Department of Agriculture has dropped charges that beekeeper John Caldeira broke the law simply by talking about pesticides on the Internet. In 1995, the Texas Department of Agriculture (TDA) sent beekeeper John Caldeira a letter in the mail claiming that he broke the law when he discussed the merits of Mavrik, a pesticide, in controlling varroa mites in beehives on Prodigy's bee hobbyist bulletin board. Under Texas law, a pesticide distributor can lose his license for "recommending" a pesticide inconsistent with its labeling or approved EPA use. But Caldeira wasn't a distributor of pesticides or even a commercial beekeeper. He was just a hobbyist repeating what he'd learned from USDA researchers at beekeeping conventions. The TDA went after him anyway, claiming that his Prodigy posts "gave the impression" that he was a knowledgeable commercial beekeeper whose "advice and suggestions would have a significant impact in encouraging illegal use of Mavrik." They inspected Caldeira's hives and found no violations of the law. Still, they pursued Caldeira, seeking to fine him $600. Caldeira countered that his comments were factually accurate, harmed no one and were protected by the First Amendment. After bringing his case to the readers of Fight-Censorship, an electronic mailing list, attorney Jennifer Granick put Caldeira in contact with Texas attorney McGready Richeson. Richeson, representing Caldeira pro bono, moved to challenge the TDA's actions on First Amendment grounds, filed for a stay of the proceedings and prepared to file a declaratory action to determine the constitutionality of the statute. In response, TDA drafted a statement for Caldeira to post "one time per month for three months" to Prodigy, parroting the TDA's position on pesticide use, in exchange for dropping the fine. Richeson rejected them offer, stating that no offer which forced Caldeira either to remain silent or to speak would be acceptable. Meanwhile, the TDA's case was in trouble. On January 12, 1998, Administrative Law Judge Barbara C. Marquardt granted Richeson's Motion to Continue, stating that "the nature of this action is problematic. While it is filed against a Texas resident, it concerns information he place on the Internet, and no harm was done to Texas residents... Thus, the ALJ would prefer that a district court address the constitutional issues." That same day, the TDA dropped their case against Caldeira. The TDA decision to dismiss the case prior to the constitutionality of the law being tested keeps the overly broad and vague law intact, perhaps to be used again. Meanwhile, the case demonstrates that free speech on the Internet is NOT just about pornography. See also: Previous article by Declan McCullagh for Time-Warner's The Netly News: ttp://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1509,00.html Monday, January 19, 1998 ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:19:53 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Caught on the internet In-Reply-To: <34C5B5B4.55FD@Birkey.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Has anyone heard about the guy who was fined by the Texas Dept. of > > Agriculture for recommending Mite Solution over the Internet? ... > Declan McCullagh, a writer for the Netly News, wrote recently of a > beekeeper who advised others on Prodigy to get rid of parasites in the > hive by mixing Mavrik with water and spraying the bottom of the hive. > The Texas Department of Agriculture promptly charged him with violating > a state law banning unapproved discussions of bee medicines and fined > him $600... Here's the original article: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/@@XWzi6AUAVyrIBMvz/netly/opinion/0,1042,1509,00.h tml Sorry about the word wrap in the above line. > Those who use the Myers Briggs Temperament Indicator For those who don't -- yet: http://www.keirsey.com/cgi-bin/keirsey/newkts.cgi http://www.halverson-law.com/1-3-1-4.htm > Experiments in artificial life indicate that the flow of information > inside a system is maximized just on the edge of chaos, where we lean > into our freedom like sailors hiking in a strong breeze. "Life begins at the edge of your comfort zone..." Allen --- BEE-L can be searched for items in a particular date range. The following message (To the LISTSERVER-not BEE-L) retrieves only the messages since January 1997. SEARCH formic acid IN bee-l SINCE Jan 1997 The capitals indicate commands which the LISTSERVER responds to and the small letters indicate the things that you specify. (Courtesy Don Aitken) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:42:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Abbas Edun Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone on BEE-L have the e-mail address of George Imrie? > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:54:09 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: lost e-mail address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone on the list the e-mail addres for Bryan Henle (Bryan lives in California). Thanks. Best regards. Dr. R. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:59:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Barricklow Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are obviously a different person than the George W. Imirie that was described in the Brushy Bee "Secrets of a Master" about the Imirie shim. Ive got books written by R. Bonney, R. Morse. and R. Taylor, but won't have one written by you, or any more of your shims in my hives. Move on quick, perhaps not even stopping at the Best of Bee. I give you this info free of charge. ---------- > From: GImasterBK > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 12:30 AM > > As a NEW MEMBER of just 3 weeks, I will surely convert to B of B. As one of > the 116 EAS Certified Master Beekeepers who has raised bees only for > scientific study and interest for 65 years (1933), my interest in the BEE-L > was to use it to try and UPGRADE today's beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS free of > charge. > > At my age and having no time for foolishness, I was rapidly approaching the > point of UNSUBSCRIBING to BEE-L; and get back to writing my final book dealing > with beeKEEPING rather than HAVING bees. > Thank you! > George Imirie, Ph.D. > Rockville, Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:11:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.JOHNSTON" Subject: Pollen Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An illustrated guide to Pollen Analysis. P.D.Moore,B.Sc. Ph.D J.A.Webb,B.Sc. Ph.D Published by Hodder and Stoughton ISBN 0-340-17236-3 ISBN 0-340-21449-X Paperback 1978 reprinted 1983 Not specifically honey but a good book,a set of microscope slides available to complement the illustrations. Honey Identification. Rex Sawyer. Cardiff Academic Press 1988 ISBN 1-871254-00-0 "The bible" exellent photos of "foreign" honey Mexican,African,Caribbean, Russian,australian&New Zealand,Canadian,Chinese,Easern europe,Mediteranean, UK,Irish,Norwegian and USA plus Honeydews. Regards Andy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:06:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Barricklow Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GlmasterBK@.aol.com, (Georges E-mail) ---------- > From: Abbas Edun > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L > Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 11:42 PM > > Does anyone on BEE-L have the e-mail > address of George Imrie? > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:18:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: email address/George MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! George Imire's e-mail address: GImasterBK E-mail Address(es): GImasterBK@aol.com Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- >GlmasterBK@.aol.com, (Georges E-mail) > > > > > > > >---------- >> From: Abbas Edun >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Checking Options on BEE-L >> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 11:42 PM >> >> Does anyone on BEE-L have the e-mail >> address of George Imrie? >> > >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:15:48 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Another bee fable! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There was this farmer who had a calf.... Just kidding! Seriously, when I'm not busy trashing everyones' subscription options I like to read a good book. I'm currently reading _The_Forgotten_Pollinators_ by Stephen L. Buchmann and Gary Paul Nabhan (Island Press - ISBN 1-55963-352-2). In Chapter 9, "Keepers of the Flame" pages 146-147 the authors tell a fable behind the rituals of harvesting honey from Apis dorsata in the rainforests of Malaysia. "Seems in ancient times, there was a Hindu handmaiden called Hitam Manis, 'Dark Sweetness,' for she was a dusky beauty. She fell in love with the reigning sultan's son, who returned her love. But they could not marry, for she was a commoner. She and her fellow maidens - called Dayang - were forced to flee the palace, for the furious ruler wanted to kill her. As she ran away, a metal spear pierced her heart. She and her friends were turned into bees and they flew away. One day, the prince - now engaged to a princess - noted a honey comb high up in a tree. He climbed the tree for it and discovered a sticky, sweet substance inside. He called down to his servants for a knife and pail. When the pail was hauled down, they discovered to their horror that the prince's body was in it, all chopped to pieces! A disembodied voice cried out that he had committed a sacrilege by using a metal knife in cutting the comb, for Hitam Manis herself had perished from a metal instrument. Later, a golden shower by the bees restored the prince to entirety." Here the authors are careful to distinguish the golden shower of the bees from the yellow rain of the Vietnam war era. The bees' "golden showers" are considered a gift of nitrogen to the depleted of the Malaysian rain forest. The fable continues, "To this day, no metal - only equipment of wood, hide and cow bone - is used at all stages, in deference to the early anguish of Hitam Manis." > End of Fable < _The_Forgotten_Pollinators_ is a good book but a sad tale of diminishing and fragmented habitat for plants and the animals on which they rely to successfully reproduce, enlightening the reader about endangered relationships rather than endangered species. The wake up call is the message that the endangered relationships must be protected. Good reading, highly recommended! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:32:31 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Another bee fable! oops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Should have read: ... considered a gift of nitrogen to the depleted soils of the Malaysian rain forest.... ----- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:51:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: Best of Bee's First Anniversary Allan, I, for one enjoy your banter and B-L and BoB. Keep up the good work. If I don't like it, that's why I have the delete button. Bravo Sir, keep on keeping on. Regards, J. C. Peacock, :-} E-Mail jayseapcok@Juno.com Retired Staff Sergeant. Grandfather to 6. 14 years Bee keepr. 8 Italian hives. Small Craft sailor. "Every day discover something new in the every day things around you, look at things differently." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:19:01 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: sci.agr.beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" News Group Help & Also includes a few bee barbs. Another of those big lies from our US state governments. "I am from the Texas Department of Agriculture and I am here to tell you what you can post or read!" Something is really wrong when any individuals property is put at risk because of a normal everyday viscera of post to any news group or news list. You all need to read this, true all the ends well is OK, but this has to bee an example of what makes cynics out of young beekeepers when it comes to Bee Regulators and their BS (Bee Science) allies in the US Department of Agriculture ARS, and many state Universities and Agriculture Departments. I see no difference in destroying a person for what he writes and destroying his livelihood in a Bee Quarantines because of some perceived pest once it has landed on our shores, and "give enough time they all will". http://cgi.pathfinder.com/@@XWzi6AUAVyrIBMvz/netly/opinion/0,1042,1509,00.h tml (X) You are here. If parts of the address are missing just type them in at the end of your browser html address line. Back on track. On of the of the problems with the news groups is that the posts are sometimes so slow to get around that many times an answer to a question is posted before the original question. Those of us who are on the slow end of the news servers find many different ways of overcoming this inefficiency that is built in to the news server system by spying on mail from more then one providers news server. Of course if both providers are using the same news server you get the bill but don't solve the problem, like getting your pick me up truck worked on downtown. Another popular solution is to use the DEJANEWS service to post and receive the beekeeping news group and its free: http://search.dejanews.com/bg.xp?level=sci.agriculture.beekeepingST=++ Several methods are available to search our posts or to check on your posts, this is one that works for me most of the time: http://dry2.jps.net/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=xovergroup=sci.agriculture.beekeep ing Then if you are looking for the kind of information the Texas Department of Agriculture would bar you from seeing try People Helping One Another Know Stuff. This is for sure a site that would be banned for Texas beekeepers, a state that would regulate beekeepers even on the net. I am sure Texas pattern's their bee laws over what California has but can not use because of the withdrawal of funding. About time Texas beekeepers wake up and cut them black hatted bee regulators off at the pocket book and not at the pass a heck of a lot cheeper then fighting them in the courts for years. Check out this site: http://www.phoaks.com/sci/agriculture/beekeeping/index.html ttul, the Old Drone ... And where the bee with cowslip bells was wrestling. "Until the Texas bee regulators stepped on them." (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:45:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: government MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy N. wrote: Another of those big lies from our US state governments. "I am from the Texas Department of Agriculture and I am here to tell you what you can post or read!" This technology that we are using now is is going to be the biggest bane to government bureaucrats that there ever was. News travels so fast and so much of it that I do believe that we are going to see more honesty and better government because of it. More people are finding out more things and telling more people faster and better then ever before in history. I LOVE THIS THING! Of course that goes for beekeeping. ; < ) billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:37:44 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Extractor Construction Plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings - Dave Verville contacted me some time ago about plans that he was working on for a 20 frame extractor. He finished the extractor and sent me the drawings he did for it. I have just finished putting them up on the web. There is also plans available for a 10 frame assembly jig. Thanks Dave. Files at: http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/index.html -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:40:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Beekeeping in the Bahamas (the "family islands") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is anybody on the list a Bahamian beekeeper? Before I became a Vermont beekeeper I used to be able to buy a very dark honey produced on an island somewhere near (but not on) Harbour Island. Apparently this beekeeper went out of business. I would really like to introduce bees and beekeeping to Harbour Island and am hopeful I can find a beekeeper on a nearby island willing to fix me up with a split to get us going. I'd be happy to supply the equipment. Am afraid that Bahamian customs wouldn't like me bringing a few 3lb package deals with me on the plane. Does anybody know about this? Many thanks. Jeff Hills . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: government On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:45:14 -0500 Bill Bartlett writes: >Andy N. wrote: > >Another of those big lies from our US state governments. >More people are finding out more things and telling more people faster >and better then ever before in history. I LOVE THIS THING! >Of course that goes for beekeeping. ; < ) As you can see from today's news, the big lies start at the 'top'. Shades of Richard Nixon. At least our bees don't lie ! Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:37:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: government On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:45:14 -0500 Bill Bartlett writes: >Andy N. wrote: > >Another of those big lies from our US state governments. >More people are finding out more things and telling more people faster >and better then ever before in history. I LOVE THIS THING! >Of course that goes for beekeeping. ; < ) As you can see from today's news, the big lies start at the 'top'. Shades of Richard Milhous Nixon. At least our bees don't lie ! Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:59:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: government In-Reply-To: <199801212338.SAA09467@eaglenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:45 PM 1/21/98 -0500, you wrote: >Another of those big lies from our US state governments. >"I am from the Texas Department of Agriculture and I am here to tell you >what you can post or read!" >This technology that we are using now is is going to be the biggest bane to >government bureaucrats that there ever was. News travels so fast and so >much of it that I do believe that we are going to see more honesty and >better government because of it. Hi Billy Bee, I really hope you are right... But I also hope that Mr. Caldeira does not let his experience end without some kind of political or civil action. Far too often over zealous regulators, and I include bee regulators are able to walk away when they are wrong or did wrong under the cover of law and the lowly beekeeper is the loser even when he wins. The powers of the State of Texas was mis applied against this beekeepers and who knows how many others because of not what he or they did but what was written or said. If I say, and I have said, that I am personally for beekeepers in the US being able to import bee stock in a regulated market, and also say I know how it can be done safely and successfully.Am I to expect a knock on my door in the future by some bee regulating agency of the government. Note no question mark because I can tell you I know the answer and it is yes. They may not come from the bee regulators, they may come in the dress of the tax appraiser, immigration agent, water or air quality board or some other of the legions of regulators whom I must work with in the apiary business, but informed by the bee regulator. In California we had a bee inspector accidently cause a fire that burned up a bee yard (100+). It was an accident and the loser was the beekeeper. In the same year we had a beekeeper accidently cause a fire because of his catalytic converter and dry grass, (at the time by regulation this could not officially happen), and he was made to pay the full cost of putting the fire out. Lucky for the beekeeper his bees were saved and his insurance company worked out the cost of the suppressing the fire, a $250,000.00 bill, with the state. To some my illustrations are like apples and oranges but to me both represent the arrogance of government and IMHO the misuse of the power people give the state. Thousands of hives were killed in the federal-state T-mite quarantine, most of them in Texas and California. Dozens of good bee people big and small had their lives forever ruined, some never recovered emotionally or financially. It was wrong, in fact so wrong that in recent years the federal administrators in charge of animal and plant quarantine use the Bee Mite Quarantine as an example of how not to have quarantines yet to this day no beekeeper involved has received an apology from those responsible or fair remuneration for their losses. Some of the regulators and academics who went as far as to even give the courts false and misleading scientific evidence today are still employed by their agency's and in fact one of the greatest enemies the bee industry ever had in California is now a big shot Federal administrator and dealing with some beekeeping programs. Even the beekeepers and queen breeders who promised to help those who fell under the ax for the most part reneged on their promises as they were overwhelmed by the enormity of the loss. Many quietly did help out their neighbors, God Bless them all. The Federal Quarantine on Afrikaans bees is another example of how far some in government will go even with the sure knowledge that what they are doing other then being interesting to some has no basis in fact or law and the regulation could not stand under a court challenge or the light of day, yet in Texas and other states quarantines or regulations still exist and are enforced or are they. It is easy to find bees from regulated areas of Texas that find their way to California, Washington, the Dakota's, Florida, and you name it. African bees as represented by the hype of the killer bees or the Tex-Mex bee, or the pure thing from Africa are NOT new to the United States and have never been a problem and are not a problem even though some will say they are for what ever their reason, more times then not what they have read, heard or been told, but not what they have experienced working with African and non African bees. Regulations should be made based on facts and not on what any one or any group perceives as the fact no matter that groups standing in government. The beekeeping industry in the past had years when the bee regulatory industry had a grater net income and this is one reason for more regulation at least if you are a regulator. Yes all bee regulators are not bad people, but few of them if told too would not have cited Mr. Caldeira. I have seen them crying as they gassed some poor beekeepers bees knowing they were doing the wrong thing and yet the next day they were back to gas some other beekeepers bees, oh how "sorry" they were. Maybe the tear's were from the gas fumes and not the heart, my own tears came from what's inside most beekeeper, and a respect for nature, and others efforts. I remember not one BS (bee scientists) giving testimony or support to those beekeepers, but I am sure there was at least one I just can't remember which one. Well, Mr Caldeira may not have to pay a $600 fine but the people responsible for trying to collect it are still out there and who know who will be the next beekeeper victim. ttul, the OLd Drone (Void where prohibited by common sense) (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:39:30 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: government MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Al. Only when we take their food stores away. They say, "I love you" in a buzzing tone accompanied by a bunch of drumming stingers. Keep well Pedro