========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 21:06:11 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Varroa collapse In-Reply-To: <046400746151c38UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Lloyd Spear wrote: > Carlos Aparicio questioned why a colony would collapse from Varroa when it > has been existing with populations of Varroa for some time. > I think we have all experienced this. I live in a temperate climate and, > because I raise only comb honey, I keep good records on every colony. Twice > in past years I have had my highest producing colony collapse just after the > supers were pulled. > Dr. Nick Calderone from Cornell University thinks this is due to such an > explosion of Varroa that both a high percentage of nurse bees are infected > and a high percentage of worker larvae are infected. The net effect is that > very few worker larvae mature into bees, and the existing worker bees have a > very short life. In these conditions, a colony can collapse in just 3 weeks > as there are no new worker bees to replace those that die. Dr. Calderone > thinks that tracheal mites do not cause a sudden collapse, but a longer-term > degeneration. > Carlos, this applies to hives in temperate climates where summer/early fall > collapse is seen. If bees are raising brood throughout your winter it might > also apply in that case. > Hi Lloyd and All, The compexity of the sudden collapse is beyond just a high level of Varroa. Stress can do it, like moving the bees. That happened to me 3 years ago. 30 hives came down out of thee mountains and I placed them at my place and the went up 30 days later to move the rest down and was goint to treat all 90 at the same time. The first 30 were all dead. the ones that I did not move were ok and took the treatmment with no losses.They made it through the winter.We have another problem. Varroa is a vector for 3 virues. They have a play in the sudden collapse.When my bees went down, it was too fast for just weak bees. There are different opinions on what came first the chicken or the egg.My bet goes with another pathogen working with Varroa to cause the sudden collapse. I have kept bees for over 30 years and I had some very strong hives , with great flight for two weeks after they came out of the mountains. Then nothing. Thats my nickle. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:10:59 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Moving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I asked Andy: >I've been wondering: all the pollinators seem to move at night. We've >moved bees in the daytime and had good luck, but not on the scale that >we'll be moving this summer. Andy repied: A lot depends on the length of the trip and the temperatures. Beekeepers in the hot hot southwest have no problem moving short distances in the heat of the day when the bees do not fly because of the heat. Here in California moving bees in the day time during the spring, summer, and fall is to invite bad trouble with people problems. A few years ago a loaded semi broke down up north and was parked a few hours for repairs then took up the journey. Along comes a pedestrian out for a walk, his body was found a few hours later. There are certainly many cold foggy days during the winter that bees can be moved all day long and many do take advantage of this when moving from semi holding yards to the almonds, normally a short trip. Moving bees anytime requires a lot of common sense not shared by the average non beekeeper. One thing that most do on long trips such as moving to the Dakotas from California is to have pre arranged watering stops to wet down the load if the weather is warm. A lot of bees that used to not make it are saved this way. Said as it is all across the United States on migration routes used by beekeepers there are as many horror stories as their are beekeepers. Mostly beekeepers moving when temperatures allow the bees to fly, then when the driver stops for coffee, fuel or rest, the bees bail out. Some towns have ordnances prohibiting bee trucks from stopping anytime usually passed after a bee forced closed down of town merchants or stinging incidents. Its bad enough that bee keepers forget that bees sting, but forgetting the fear the public has for bees is short sighted. The California Legislature has attempted several times to require all bee trucks to be netted when moving any kind of bee hives or equipment such as supers filled or not. A few states have these kind of laws already. These laws are proposed by the Highway Petrol every time some beekeeper causes a problem. >What do you know about this possibility? I gather no one screens hives on >a commercial scale? When I started there were still a few beekeepers screening hives to move them, and all the first used bee hives I started with had staples for the screens and I used to cuss them every time I ripped my clothes or hands. From working with package bees which are screened I learned early on its one good way to kill a lot of bees by suffocation, and that was a problem those who used moving screens had at the time. They all would talk of getting to the new location and having nectar running out of their hives onto the truck bed. Lots of Luck and I hope you remember that "pollination is excellent farming practice but seldom good beekeeping". Beekeepers seldom recover what they lose in pollinating, and for most that pollinate it is a cash flow problem and not a nectar flow one. ttul, the OLd Drone ... Nor will a bee buzz round two swelling peaches, ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 00:27:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: HELP! abandon colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi bee-l'ers! I need some second year new-bee advice on how to handle my problem! I started out last year with two colonies: one Buckfast, one Italian. Today I went to check on how they were doing and discovered to my dismay my Italian colony is dead--well abandon actually. There are a couple of dead bees inside, nothing unexpected for a overwintered colony. What was unexpected was no bees; not a trace of them *anywhere*, They had plenty of food. The top deep super is full of capped honey and virtually untouched. The bottom super's center frames are emtpy although the outside ones are only partially empty. There are no signs of disease that are obvious. The other thing I noticed was there was some mold growing on the underside of the top cover. Not a lot, just in an area directly above the escape hole in the inner cover. Was it too damp inside causing them to leave at the first opportunity? We had a very mild Winter for New Jersey. In early February, we had almost Spring like weather, which some on the list noted. At that time, I both colonies were active. The bees working the Italian colony were definitely Italian. I did treat both my colonies late last Summer with Apistan (following label directions to the letter) and oil patties. So what happened to my bees? More importantly, right now, is what to do about rebuilding the colony? I have ordered 2 Buckfast queens a few months ago. Originally, I planned to split each colony using the new queens. Right now I have one colony and two queens which won't arrive for a couple of weeks. I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I split the remaining colony, let them raise their own queen and replace her when the new queen arrives? The new colony has plenty of food, so I don't think I'll need to feed them. Will I be able to start a nuc with the second new queen? Or should I just wait until the new queens arrive? In that case, how to I care for the abandon hive in the meantime? Though I got 2 supers of honey from the Italians last year, they never seemed to be as active as the Buckfast. I attributed it to just normal variation. Going into the second year, the Buckfast are certainly outpacing them now. Ahhh... what a way to start my second year. Thanks for any help y'all can offer! bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@pobox.com second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so far) bob-bee@pobox.com (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: the cure for the Windows 95 virus. -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 08:47:56 +0200 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Good Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Allen, I have never sawn a queen cell with varroa. I don't know whether this depends on special care of my bees or on me. Because I take those hives for queen rearing which are healthy and of good constitution. Sincerely Reimund ___________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ___________________________ > I presume we are talking adult queens here. Has anyone seen a queen cell > with varroa inside? > > Allen > --- > FAQs? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can > search for answers to most common questions by visiting > http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm > or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say > Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S) > ('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:23:45 +0200 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bob, > I need some second year new-bee advice on how to handle my problem! Don't be sad. That's quite normal and happens to other and even elder beekeepers, too. > I started out last year with two colonies: one Buckfast, one Italian. > Today I went to check on how they were doing and discovered to my dismay > my Italian colony is dead--well abandon actually. There are a couple of > dead bees inside, nothing unexpected for a overwintered colony. What was > unexpected was no bees; not a trace of them *anywhere*, > It is impossible to tell you the reasons from such a long distance. Although I have some suppositions (loss of queen, deseases) it isn't possible to give you an exact advice. > The other thing I noticed was there was some mold growing on the underside > of the top cover. Not a lot, just in an area directly above the escape > hole in the inner cover. Was it too damp inside causing them to leave at > the first opportunity? > Probably not! The reasons are others! > I did treat both my colonies late last Summer with Apistan (following > label directions to the letter) and oil patties. So what happened to my > bees? Forget it, it is hard or even impossible to find out. > More importantly, right now, is what to do about rebuilding the colony? > I have ordered 2 Buckfast queens a few months ago. Originally, I planned > to split each colony using the new queens. Right now I have one colony > and two queens which won't arrive for a couple of weeks. > > I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I split the remaining > colony, let them raise their own queen and replace her when the new > queen arrives? The new colony has plenty of food, so I don't think I'll > need to feed them. Will I be able to start a nuc with the second new > queen? Or should I just wait until the new queens arrive? In that case, > how to I care for the abandon hive in the meantime? > I wouldn't split it at that time of the year. Wait until you get the new queens and make a split with capped brood and some young bees. You only can divide a hive you want to do in summer when there are enough drones.I you divide the hive at the moment you also get no or less honey from your bees. Because you need strong hives to do so. So be calm, wait and use time to read more about beekeeping. ;) > Though I got 2 supers of honey from the Italians last year, they never > seemed to be as active as the Buckfast. I attributed it to just normal > variation. Going into the second year, the Buckfast are certainly > outpacing them now. Ahhh... what a way to start my second year. > That points to an old queen or a disease. Although you treated with apistan, perhaps varroa mites? I've often seen empty hives caused by varroa during mild winters. Sincerely Reimund ___________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ___________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:41:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gary Bradshaw Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01BD5AE6.23615080" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BD5AE6.23615080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob Our problem here in NJ is moisture, not cold temperatures. You must provide a top entrance for your hives during the winter, not as an escape for the bees, but for the moist air. If you don't, that moist air hits the cover, condenses and rains back down on the bees and killing them. We hold classes at our store and are always available to help you with your problems. Gary Bradshaw gbees@worldnet.att.net > -----Original Message----- > From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > [mailto:BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Billson > Sent: Sunday, March 29, 1998 12:28 AM > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: HELP! abandon colony > > > Hi bee-l'ers! > > I need some second year new-bee advice on how to handle my problem! > > I started out last year with two colonies: one Buckfast, one Italian. > Today I went to check on how they were doing and discovered to my dismay > my Italian colony is dead--well abandon actually. There are a couple of > dead bees inside, nothing unexpected for a overwintered colony. What was > unexpected was no bees; not a trace of them *anywhere*, > > They had plenty of food. The top deep super is full of capped honey and > virtually untouched. The bottom super's center frames are emtpy although > the outside ones are only partially empty. There are no signs of disease > that are obvious. > > The other thing I noticed was there was some mold growing on the underside > of the top cover. Not a lot, just in an area directly above the escape > hole in the inner cover. Was it too damp inside causing them to leave at > the first opportunity? > > We had a very mild Winter for New Jersey. In early February, we had > almost Spring like weather, which some on the list noted. At that time, I > both colonies were active. The bees working the Italian colony were > definitely Italian. > > I did treat both my colonies late last Summer with Apistan (following > label directions to the letter) and oil patties. So what happened to my > bees? > > More importantly, right now, is what to do about rebuilding the colony? > I have ordered 2 Buckfast queens a few months ago. Originally, I planned > to split each colony using the new queens. Right now I have one colony > and two queens which won't arrive for a couple of weeks. > > I need some advice on how to handle this. Should I split the remaining > colony, let them raise their own queen and replace her when the new > queen arrives? The new colony has plenty of food, so I don't think I'll > need to feed them. Will I be able to start a nuc with the second new > queen? Or should I just wait until the new queens arrive? In that case, > how to I care for the abandon hive in the meantime? > > Though I got 2 supers of honey from the Italians last year, they never > seemed to be as active as the Buckfast. I attributed it to just normal > variation. Going into the second year, the Buckfast are certainly > outpacing them now. Ahhh... what a way to start my second year. > > Thanks for any help y'all can offer! > > bob > -- > Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@pobox.com > second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so far) bob-bee@pobox.com > > (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) > {|||8- Linux: the cure for the Windows 95 virus. -8|||} > (/ \) > ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BD5AE6.23615080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bob
Our problem here in NJ is moisture, not cold = temperatures.  You must provide a top entrance for your hives = during the=20 winter, not as an escape for the bees, but for the moist air.  If = you=20 don't, that moist air hits the cover, condenses and rains back down on = the bees=20 and killing them.

We hold classes at our store and are always = available=20 to help you with your problems.

Gary Bradshaw  gbees@worldnet.att.net

=
>=20 -----Original Message-----
> From: Informed Discussion of = Beekeeping=20 Issues and Bee Biology
> [mailto:BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob=20 Billson
> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 1998 12:28 AM
> To:=20 BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: HELP! abandon=20 colony
>
>
> Hi bee-l'ers!
>
> I need some = second=20 year new-bee advice on how to handle my problem!
>
> I = started out=20 last year with two colonies: one Buckfast, one Italian.
> Today I = went to=20 check on how they were doing and discovered to my dismay
> my = Italian=20 colony is dead--well abandon actually.  There are a couple = of
> dead=20 bees inside, nothing unexpected for a overwintered colony.  What=20 was
> unexpected was no bees; not a trace of them=20 *anywhere*,
>
> They had plenty of food. The top deep super = is full=20 of capped honey and
> virtually untouched. The bottom super's = center=20 frames are emtpy although
> the outside ones are only partially=20 empty.  There are no signs of disease
> that are=20 obvious.
>
> The other thing I noticed was there was some = mold=20 growing on the underside
> of the top cover.  Not a lot, just = in an=20 area directly above the escape
> hole in the inner cover.  = Was it too=20 damp inside causing them to leave at
> the first=20 opportunity?
>
> We had a very mild Winter for New = Jersey.  In=20 early February, we had
> almost Spring like weather, which some on = the=20 list noted.  At that time, I
> both colonies were = active.  The=20 bees working the Italian colony were
> definitely = Italian.
>
>=20 I did treat both my colonies late last Summer with Apistan = (following
>=20 label directions to the letter) and oil patties.  So what happened = to=20 my
> bees?
>
> More importantly, right now, is what to = do=20 about rebuilding the colony?
> I have ordered 2 Buckfast queens a = few=20 months ago.  Originally, I planned
> to split each colony = using the=20 new queens.  Right now I have one colony
> and two queens = which won't=20 arrive for a couple of weeks.
>
> I need some advice on how = to=20 handle this.  Should I split the remaining
> colony, let them = raise=20 their own queen and replace her when the new
> queen = arrives?  The=20 new colony has plenty of food, so I don't think I'll
> need to = feed=20 them.  Will I be able to start a nuc with the second new
>=20 queen?  Or should I just wait until the new queens arrive?  In = that=20 case,
> how to I care for the abandon hive in the=20 meantime?
>
> Though I got 2 supers of honey from the = Italians last=20 year, they never
> seemed to be as active as the Buckfast.  I = attributed it to just normal
> variation.  Going into the = second=20 year, the Buckfast are certainly
> outpacing them now.  = Ahhh... what=20 a way to start my second year.
>
> Thanks for any help y'all = can=20 offer!
>
>        &nb= sp; =20 bob
> --
> Bob Billson,=20 KC2WZ           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;      =20 email: kc2wz@pobox.com
> second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so=20 far)           &nb= sp; =20 bob-bee@pobox.com
>
>    = (\    =20 MS-DOS, you can't live with it.  You can live without = it.  =20 /)
>  =20 {|||8-          Linux: the = cure for=20 the Windows 95 virus.       =20 -8|||}
>   =20 (/            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 \)
>

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BD5AE6.23615080-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 07:47:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: "Optimum" honey-producing unit In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Late last summer a NY commercial beekeeper wryly commented to me, "You know, I think I've got it -- I think I've figured out how to make honey!" He was grinning as we continued along, harvesting yet another yard's worth of heavy supers. At first I wasn't sure just what he meant. "How to make honey??" He went on to explain that just what he was referring to was how the colonies are prepared in the spring. Divisions made early in the season would build up just right and in time for the main nectar flows, resulting in large crops and very little swarming. He had come to the conclusion that a 6-frame spring division (or thereabouts) was ideal, and the most profitable, at least in this part of the country. THe size of the initial colony is the KEY. Such a unit is strong enough to maintain itself and thrive, can build up quickly in time for the honey-flows, and isn't likely to swarm in the meantime. The result has been very large per-colony yields, with minimum labor. ("Minimum labor", in a manner of speaking -- after loading and unloading load after load of full supers, my back and I can attest to that.) The guy has been running between 600 and 1000 colonies for many years, and over the past several seasons has come to this conclusion. He now has the "formula." The practice apparently has been paying off nicely. So... I wonder if anyone else has noticed similar results, or has determined what comprises their <> colony at the beginning of the season. I had noticed before that ~6-comb divisions of my own, made in early May and kept on 1 to 1-1/2 brood-chambers would do a tremendous job, sometimes filling more honey-supers than overwintered colonies that were full strength right along. Perhaps colonies like this are kept in "growing-mode" through the swarm period (not shutting down like bigger colonies that become congested) and once the main flows hit, they are all set to go like gangbusters. The term "colony morale" comes to mind. thanks for any comments on this... JWG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 08:03:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Splits from swarm cells Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I discovered many swarm cells in one of my hives today. There were probably a dozen on each of five frames. I destroyed those on a couple of frames, but quit when I realized how many there were. So, I have 3 frames, each with 2-4 swarm cells. The cells haven't been capped, but contain larvae floating in royal jelly. Here's the question: Can I use these frames to make three splits, effectively dividing this colony into 3-4 hives? I know I won't get much honey from any of them this spring, but I'm interested in increase anyway. Besides, with this many swarm cells, these ladies look pretty serious about dividing themselves. If I do split them up into nucs, should I destroy all but one swarm cell in each, or leave them all for insurance and let the new queens sort it out in each hive? Finally, When do I do this? As I say, the cells aren't yet capped, but I seem to recal reading the a swarm normally issues just as the swarm cells are capped. Should I do it now?, will the new hives have enough nurses to carry the queens through to full maturity? Thanks for your help Greg ____________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Mt. Gilead, NC ghankins@ac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 12:25:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Moving Bees, Smothering Mites, Etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all: A couple of comments. As far as I can determine, the notion that Mineral Oil smothers mites is a "guess" promulgated by this list. It seems to be derived from the fact that Vaseline smothers mites. Studies of various oils and greases have come up with other explanations. My first guess was that the bee became too slippery to hold on to (I'm joking). A better guess may be that the oil or grease interfers with the ability of the mite to properly find and identify its host (with some pretty good evidence that this is the case for the blind tracheal mite). Using enough oil to physically smother the mites would be pretty messy - and I would expect that much oil to be obviously harmful to bees. Anyway, I am prepared to keep the subject open until someone shows me the results of well designed experiments aimed at properly identify the mechanism(s) involved. As per moving bees: We have successfully moved bees from Montana to Maryland (@2600 miles) during the hottest part of the year on more than one occassion. Like many topics, this one gets complex when you cross different climatic zones. In the West, overheating is the main problem. Our bees were screened tightly. None could fly or get to water, although all were in nucleus hives. Our on-board temperature probes proved to be very informative. Unlike most commercial beekeepers, we drove during the day and stopped for a few hours at night. Why? Because the bees can't thermo-regulate properly when the truck stops during the day. They can fan, but need water and lots of air movement. At night, when the sun is no longer beating down on the boxes, they have a chance of cooling (don't need as much air flow) - if they can get water. During the day in bright sun, they can overheat in a matter of minutes. But, driving down the road at 65-85 miles/hr (yep, 85 is legal in some western states), enough air is forced through the hives that the need is mainly water. The first time that we made the trip, we pulled over and sprayed the load with water whenever the temperature in the hives began to climb. In the second year, we installed a drip irrigation system (with a little misting nozzle under the cover of each hive). An electric pump, switch under the dash, and a tank of water on the truck did the truck. Whenever the hive temperature began to climb rapidly (and it did about 3:00 in the afternoon in full sun), we gave them a short spritz of water. No stopping - and the temperatures fell almost immediately. Surprisingly, a small zip of water cooled things down fast and lasted for 1/2 hour or longer. One lesson that we learned very quickly - refueling stops during the day are when things can quickly escalate out of control. Pull in to a fuel station, stop, and the temperature begins to climb in less than 5 minutes (down right scarey). In our case, we added a small generator and fan to move air through the load (during these stops or any roadside breakdowns). Without the fan system - don't stop! Even parked in the shade, without added air movement, the colonies had a tough time staying cool. At night, with a dab of water, they were fine (as indicated by their overall condition as well as the temperature charts). Typically, the western part of the trip is hot and dry and water is critical. As we near the east coast with its high humidity, we sometimes had the opposite problem - the confined bees could literally drown in their own condensation. In fact, after three years, the only bees lost in transit were from excess moisture - and in one case, it happened on an overnight move of only a couple of miles. So, when working under humid conditions, be sure to provide plenty of ventilation and keep that air moving. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:35:37 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Oil and Mites. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Group, There is no question about oil and mites. The oil kills mites. Period. How? By covering the mite in oil and thereby smothering it. First hand knowledge? Yes. We also raise rabbits, they get ear mites. Solution? Mineral oil, or baby, oil or olive oil, corn oil, etc. We could buy something from a Vet but you don't need to. If you go to a Vet with a pet that has ear mites they will give you a perscription for and oil or ointment to put in the ears. Ask the vet what it does and he will tell you that it smothers the mite and they can not breath and die. The perscription from the vet may have something in it to prevent infection or scracthing but the results are the same. Ask if you can use the above mentioned oils and he/she will tell you yes. Re-apply the oil in about 7 days or so and the mites that just hatched will also be killed. Any oil or cream that will cover the mites will kill them. So what does this have to do with bees. Not much other than to put to rest the strange notions of how oil works on mites. Whether you use oil in you hives is up to you. The type of oil is up to you. FGMO seems to be the safest and what most use. What does it do to wax or honey? I have no idea. But be assured that from years of raising many different types of animals, Oils kills mites. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:57:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: FGMO treatment In-Reply-To: <66e9963a.351d97f2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Carlos, Vaseline is a PETROLEUM PRODUCT and can NOT be used like Mineral Oil. > You can drink Mineral Oil and it would not harm you, only make you go to the > bathroom. Mineral oil is also a petroleum product. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 11:39:53 -0800 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Help! abandon colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Billson asks about a colony which apparently absconded from the hive during late winter, about making splits, and care of the hive. Bob, you don't say what the level of Honey Bee Tracheal Mites (HBTM) were in the two colonies in the fall, or what your observations were in September and October before the weather became cold. You say the Italian colony was active in early February, does that mean you removed the hive cover to see how many bees there were? Without this information there are three possible explanations from my experience: One is a high level of HBTM, the second is queen loss, and the third is bee genetics i.e. bee or colony behavior. 1. Usually with high levels of either HBTM or Varroa the colony collapse/absconding occurs in late summer or early fall when supers are removed. 2. Queen loss. Quite often these days a high percentage of new queens are lost by fall and in many cases the bees make no effort to supercede them. If the queen was lost in mid August the bees could have moved over to the remaining hive, over a period of several weeks. You didn't mention any robbing of the honey in the empty hive which leads me to presume that it didn't occur. This means the colony collapse probably began, or occurred, later in the fall to early February, when robbing doesn't occur. 3. This is the most likely cause: bee genetics i.e. bee or colony behavior. Between 10 and 90 percent of new queens (average 30 percent), and packages, exhibit what I have been calling aberrant behaviors. These include a lack of queen retinue, "noisy" colonies, runny bees, a failure to cluster in the proper shape at temperatures in the 50s F., all of which result in the colony's failure to winter. There are other aberrant behaviors but these are the most easily recognized. In a few cases, when there are only low levels of these aberrant behaviors, the colonies may not finally disappear until early spring. In my own experience over the last 12 years these behaviors have caused 25 to 30 percent colony losses (exactly as you describe) though I have purchased queens from at least as many sources. My HBTM levels have been around 10 to 15 percent, and Varroa counts between 50 to 450 per colony in mid August. Apistan was used when the honey was removed. The colonies were three to four westerns (2 + deeps) full of bees in late September, but after two weeks of cold weather (40s down to 30s F.) these aberrant behaved bees disappeared from the hives in early to mid October. Don't worry about the mold in the hive. A new colony will clean up the combs. If you had the proper amount of top ventilation, excessive moisture shouldn't have been the cause of the mold, just no bees to keep the hive properly ventilated. I would suggest waiting until your queens come to make splits. Let your remaining colony built at its maximum rate until then. You may even find it necessary to replace last years Buckfast queen, judging by local beekeeper experience here. To all BEE-Lers: It would be quite helpful if you give us the number of combs of bees (deep or westerns) in hives when you are describing a problem colony and when comparing it to a "good colony." The size of the colony cluster is extremely important in making a diagnosis because it is a variable which often easily suggests the colony quality and maybe queen quality for the time of year. James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com 509 576 3041 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 12:59:04 -0800 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Queen rearing, larvae MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was told by Dr. Laidlaw years ago that nurse bees feed larvae about every 15 minutes. He suggested that combs of brood should be returned to the hive in ten minutes, since it takes the bees some time to respond to the brood. Obviously, this would take care of the chilled or drying larvae issue. You can buy queen grafting tools from one of the major bee suppliers in the U.S. and I presume in Canada. Michael Palmer stores queens over an excluder. I've seen that done successfully several times. I have even done it successfully in a top nuc, over a parent colony with honey supers in June and July. Regards, James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:37:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: varroa collapse Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit When my colonies collapsed it was at the end of a very productive season. Productive for mites as well as honey. I did not like to treat while honey was on the hives. My theory at the time was that because the developing larvae in the late summer were parasitised they were not able to lay down the fat bodies etc to turn them into "winter bees", thus considerably shortening their life span. I did not notice any obvious signs of virus such as crawlers. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:37:43 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: Laidlaw Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is there a UK supplier of the latest Laidlaw Book? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 15:37:17 -0600 Reply-To: rcanaday@ionet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Canaday Subject: Re: Oil and Mites. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ditto on the rabbits, and apparently on the bees, too... although the effectiveness on the rabbits is probably far more apparent to the casual observer. Thanks again to Dr. Rodriguez for pointing out to me that what I've been using for years on rabbits is also quite effective on bees. If it's not broke, DON'T FIX IT. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:46:35 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: "Optimum" honey-producing unit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is what I've been doing for quite awhile. 5-6 frames of brood, and a good queen at the beginning of May. That's about all you need here in the northern Champlain valley of NY and VT. Colonies with less brood than that get frames of brood from strong colonies. This is a good time to requeen the weak ones. Any strong colonies left at the end of the yard get split. This seems a better plan than fighting with them all summer trying to stop swarming. Doesn't insure a honey crop though. As Charlie Mraz says, you get a honey flow when god turns on the faucet. I guess that must be so. In a good year, even the weak colonies make a crop. In a bad year none of 'em do. Having a standard starting point for a colony in your area, at a specific time in the bloom cycle should be a better approach than waiting to see what kind of year it will be, and then trying to play catch-up for the rest of the season. Mike Joel Govostes wrote: > Late last summer a NY commercial beekeeper wryly commented to me, "You > know, I think I've got it -- I think I've figured out how to make honey!" > He was grinning as we continued along, harvesting yet another yard's worth > of heavy supers. > > At first I wasn't sure just what he meant. "How to make honey??" He went > on to explain that just what he was referring to was how the colonies are > prepared in the spring. Divisions made early in the season would build up > just right and in time for the main nectar flows, resulting in large crops > and very little swarming. > > He had come to the conclusion that a 6-frame spring division (or > thereabouts) was ideal, and the most profitable, at least in this part of > the country. THe size of the initial colony is the KEY. Such a unit is > strong enough to maintain itself and thrive, can build up quickly in time > for the honey-flows, and isn't likely to swarm in the meantime. The result > has been very large per-colony yields, with minimum labor. ("Minimum > labor", in a manner of speaking -- after loading and unloading load after > load of full supers, my back and I can attest to that.) > > The guy has been running between 600 and 1000 colonies for many years, and > over the past several seasons has come to this conclusion. He now has the > "formula." The practice apparently has been paying off nicely. > > So... I wonder if anyone else has noticed similar results, or has > determined what comprises their <> colony at the beginning of the > season. > > I had noticed before that ~6-comb divisions of my own, made in early May > and kept on 1 to 1-1/2 brood-chambers would do a tremendous job, sometimes > filling more honey-supers than overwintered colonies that were full > strength right along. Perhaps colonies like this are kept in > "growing-mode" through the swarm period (not shutting down like bigger > colonies that become congested) and once the main flows hit, they are all > set to go like gangbusters. The term "colony morale" comes to mind. > > thanks for any comments on this... > JWG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 14:39:00 -0800 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Varroa collapse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade: Colonies should be surveyed for mites in the spring to see what level of Varroa is to be found. Depending on where you are located (northern climes) you should be able to treat with Apistan once in the fall about mid August. Take the honey off early and let the bees store Sept. honey in the brood nest for winter. I've never heard of a fall flow heavy enough to fill one or more supers, so I usually suggest that the bees be required to put the fall flow in the second brood nest for winter. That way treatment can be done before mite levels cause collapse. From my many observations, it appears that fall collapse occurrs when the hive space is reduced AND when fall temperatures are experienced. Removing supers in mid to late August does not appear to initiate colony collapse. In fact, colonies in apiaries where one or more colonies are found with 1500 mites on a sticky board appear to respond well to the treatment, perhaps only losing ten percent of their old bee population. In the first year of an infestation (of HBTM or Varroa), or the year following a proper treatment, colony collapse appears to be limited to the old bees. Observations suggest that these young bees go into the winter well as a smaller than normal cluster. In the second year of infestations without treatment, total colony collapse occurs. By proper treatment of Varroa I mean the use of one Apistan strip per each five, or less, deep combs of bees (or equivelent in smaller size combs), for the recommended time period stated on the label, or a 30 day treatment in the spring and another 30 day treatment in the fall. I am not aware of any research which proves that viruses kill colonies. Viruses have been found in dead colonies and there is some evidence that viruses may be associated with the presense of Varroa. And there is data that shows that viruses exist in U.S. bees. It does not follow that viruses kill colonies. To my knowledge "crawlers" do not constitute an "obvious sign of virus(es)." James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:06:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bob: You are new to bees, and unfortunately "it shows". This is almost April, and apparently you did not examine INSIDE YOUR HIVE from about October. Only God can diagnose bee problems from outside a colony! I demand that all my "students" examine the inside of a colony at least once/month in Nov., Dec., & Jan. and at least twice each month in Feb. and March. Remember that next winter! I can't, and I doubt if anyone can describe what happened to your bees; but I have two STRONG suggestions: Your symptoms are classic symptoms of loss by tracheal mite. 80-90% of tracheal mite death occurs in Jan. and Feb. leaving practically no dead bees in the hive and lots of honey. I noted that you did not mention treating with Menthol, which is the only approved killer of tracheal mites. Grease patties do not KILL, only control tracheal mites, and they must be used 12 months of the year (even during the nectar flows), and the grease patties must be free of Terramycin. My second choice for the demise of your colony would be death of the queen. Queens have suffered much change over the past 20 years in poor breeding because of drone loss resulting from mite kill of feral bees, and the stresses that were not present years ago; e.g. parasitic mite syndrome, virus, medications, increased nosema or chalk brood, and poor handling by beekeepers. You can't keep bees like Daddy did! Times have changed. You have a computer and e-mail - Daddy didn't! Daddy's bees did not have mites, nor exposed to Apistan, menthol, FGMO, essential oils, and you name it. What you need is a lot of Reading and good advice. If you want, e-mail back your address (just the town is enough) and I will see if one of the New Jersey Master Beekeepers is close by who can help you FREE of charge of course. Don't get discouraged, just learn more. LEARN LEARN LEARN. George Imirie, 65 years with bees in Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 15:37:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Moving Bees, Smothering Mites, Etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980329102030.39870096@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:25 PM 3/29/98 -0500, you wrote: Hi Jerry and All Beekeepers, Jerry, I always enjoy your comments and scientific reports and appreciate your help but expect different then what I read here from any scientist...beekeeper or not. My comments are critical but not to be taken personal and should and could be applied to many in the bee science community who use the tired old refrain "more scientific study needs to be done before I will accept any opinion", which seems to talk down to us poor lousy bee folks who are not near as dumb as we may pretend to be to the tax man or bee regulator and only express our opinions here based on personal thinking and experiences. I believe we all have a right to express our opinion, and I respect yours as I do the newest poster to this list or the guy with no hives who is just thinking about keeping bees. At the same time I expect that these opinions right or wrong can and should be challenged by others with differing views, but do not accept that one opinion is necessarily wrong because scientific research has NOT been done to show it to be right. It would be far better if an opinion was wrong because research or experience had a different result and would be good reason to change anyone's opinion but not because science has not researched the subject yet or even plans to in the future which in most things is not the case. The continual challenge of any beekeeper's opinion because of the lack of science does not add anything to resolving problems and changes only the few with flex able opinions and in my opinion is the wrong path that so many scientists seen to need to use, maybe only to express their own lack of practicable experience or knowledge. I do agree that more scientific study of bees is needed but because of this attitude expressed by so many of the bee scientists for many years in the US I see little real beekeeper support for increased or even continuing public funding of it. I talk often to scientists who are just entomologists and chi mists, or you name it and none of them talk down to me or any beekeeper because they recognize the vast experience and knowledge beekeepers have in cross dimensional fields of scientific interests and value the kind of hands on type of experience most beekeepers have. We solve problems everyday without academic or scientific help and live with those we can not solve. An exception would be those beekeepers who use this list as most are "friendly" to bee science and I think their opinions should be treated with a little more...difference...will lets say a little different from the average every day beekeeper who would never read a scientific bee paper and would like them all removed from the beekeeping journal's and put into their place in the entomology journals which at the least would give them more exposure to real critics with doctorates. It should be stated that much seen here does seem to leave this list and make its way to the real world. I question why is it that so often if any beekeeper would suggests a common action such as "MO smothering mites" without citing chapter and verse of science text it always brings on the rhetoric "more research is needed"? The truth may well be that "oil kills mites" or "essential oils kills mites" and for most beekeepers who have a problem today this is all they need or want to know. If it does not, they will also know that soon enough and more times then not long before any scientific research can be done as most science require years of planning before anything positive is even started and then there is no guarantee that the solution will match with the original problem. This is the problem of the bee scientists but does little to address my problems which are today's problem and may or may not be a problem years from today. There are not enough bee scientists to expect that in any beekeepers ten lifetimes every idea, problem or anything else bothering us as beekeepers will ever be run as an scientific experiment and some things we will always have to do because of our own experience or that of other beekeepers. These things are no less the right thing to do because science has not approved of them first then those that have been approved by scientific testing...much of which is never used by anyone else including other scientists who's interest may only be in proving the first scientist wrong anyway. At the same time to cite lack of science and then cite lawful speed limits of astronomical values without any reference to any laws and in which states is hard to understand. (not to say you are wrong) I am NOT a scientist just a reader and at many times what I read I do not remember it as it was written so I always try to indicate what I write is my opinion on what I may have experienced or heard from others or even read,,, but I expect more from those with doctorates working with bees as it is hard to tell the difference from their personal opinion from scientific facts when so many times what a beekeepers writes is challenged because his opinion or experience lacks scientific research. I want to believe the science is correct, but if it is mixed with opinion that I have not found by experience to be the way it is in my small world then a problem develops with believing the science part. And I know from experience that some scientists in beekeeping are not honest in their own work, as in some "killer bee" research. Having been a commercial beekeepers and I have always been one and I can say for a fact that the majority of bees in the US that are moved long distances are moved by common agricultural carriers who specialize in transporting bees. The bee hives are netted to keep the bees from flying off the load and causing problems. These trips are planned with NO stops for fuel or food during daylight hours other then emergency except when the weather is so cold the chance of any bees coming out is null. During dry or warm weather movement arrangements are made ahead of movement for watering stops. Some carry special equipment to make watering fast and easy, others make arrangement for the use of them at pre arranged water stops. Something that I have not seen much written about is what beekeepers do before loading the hives and this includes some very efficient watering systems that vary from beekeeper to beekeeper. I have helped load many truck loads of 400-500 hives of bees most of the time without the need for a veil because of the better watering systems in use today. NO not everyone follows the shippers instruction but these drivers are soon found out and eliminated from moving bees. And for sure some beekeepers just throw a load on the truck with little care for the bees that fly off and are lost or sting every living thing for miles around. We all pay a price for this small minority and they sometimes find themselves and property wrapped up in damage suits that no one really wins. I know of no states that allow 85 mile per hour speed limits for these commercial carriers that move the majority of bees cross country, but I am not current with the laws and many of you know more on this subject then I and would like you to cite those highways or states for me that commercial trucks can go 85 so I will know and can inform others as they would be interested if not down right shocked to think anyone driving with a 50,000 pound cargo of bee boxes would or could legally travel that fast. How may loads of 400 to 500 hives have you moved, helped to load, or hired moved in the last ten years? It seems to me that if we applied the same scientific principals to the work so many others are doing we would serve our selfs and others well. I am sure it was not intend to say we are doing it all wrong because we do not have the scientific research needed to prove we are right. We do have a very good success ratio and having bees die in transit from suffixation is not one of our worry's today or even a minor problem in moving bees for the majority of the bees and beekeepers who move them. More hives of bees are lost in traffic accidents and they are, thank God, rare. Beekeepers have been watering bees for as long as they have been moving them, in fact the cost of shipment of bees by train in the old days when this was the preferred method always included the added cost for one person to go along with the bees to water and care for them. Even the first chartered air fright of bees had a bee man to care for them. I know of no scientific research to show this extra care was necessary or do I see the need for it today but I am positive that beekeeper experience of that day gleaned them the knowledge to judge for themselves what was necessary to ship their bees. It was easy to see when the cargo doors were opened on that early air plane and sugar ran out that was not the way to do it and expect the plane to make many trips. So walk in or dry sugar feeders were used. Around here in the old days when bees were moved with a team of mules water was also hauled for the animals and bees. Movement was at night and during the day the team was released from the wagon to graze away from the flying bees. One of the old time honey plants around here was named by beekeepers because it grew so high it was a real job to recover the animals when it was time to hitch them back up to the wagon loaded with bees. This is "Jackass Clover", now a rare plant because it grew on flood plain land that is now cultivated. It produced in the late summer or fall a very large crop of light colored mild flavored honey. I have seen it grow so high that I would have to climb on top of the cab of the truck to find the bee yard. This I only add to make a point that beekeepers have some experience moving bees without the benefit of up to date scientific research. I have left out telling of those who moved their bees up and down the Sacramento river system from blooming field to blooming field and how they over come their problems for another story. All one has to do is find at the end of his bee movement trip a large number of his bees are dead to know something different needs to be done. The fact is that today I see no problem with the way we are moving bees as far as the health of the bees is concerned, interesting but not something I would like to spend my time and money on. At the same time it would be very productive to work out the bee environmental problems that have been experienced in hauling bees enclosed in a refrigerated van as that would contribute to the next advance in moving bees when the public could be 100% protected from exposure to bees, out of sight out of mind. I guess it could be said it is needed to do the basic research on the netted loads to advance to the van stage of the future. >As far as I can determine, the notion that Mineral Oil smothers mites is a >"guess" promulgated by this list. It seems to be derived from the fact that >Vaseline smothers mites. Well what I have read is a little different from what you have read and I know of no reason for the readers of this list to "promulgate" anything, but their own personal opinions which I am sure comes from much more then reading this list and includes some experience in many walks of life other then beekeeping or beekeeping science, I call it common sense by virtue of life's little experiences. >Studies of various oils and greases have come up with other explanations. >My first guess was that the bee became too slippery to hold on to (I'm >joking). It may be a joke to you but it was not to the people (bee scientists) who proposed this as the mode of control with other substances . I hope they have a sense of humor, of course they were not American and we all know all others can not be trusted in beekeeping science especially those in India who may have had the vampire mite a few years more to study then we have but have such a poor record with hive bees. > A better guess may be that the oil or grease interfers with the >ability of the mite to properly find and identify its host (with some >pretty good evidence that this is the case for the blind tracheal mite). Here we go again with "guess" work from a "Bee Scientist", but from an lowly bee keeper it would become a "joke" or group hysteria, I know you did not want it read that way but that's how I could read it.. >Using enough oil to physically smother the mites would be pretty messy - >and I would expect that much oil to be obviously harmful to bees. Well for a fact I have looked at these small mites under low power and small amount of material applied to them does make them look a mess. It would take very little to smother them at least none I looked at lived, and to the human eye would not be a detectable mess. Have you done research on this or even looked at live mites in the lab on a greased slide so they could not move out of view or are you just speaking "beekeeper talk" and not scientific facts? >Anyway, I am prepared to keep the subject open until someone shows me the >results of well designed experiments aimed at properly identify the >mechanism(s) involved. That's nice of you, I hope you will let us know when your satisfied....but don't be disappointed if we don't wait for you....hardly a satisfactory answer to the beekeeper who has a problem today and looking for todays solution. I would guess there will always be a difference between the way someone with a problem looks at that problem and any solution and the doctor looking for a proper scientific treatment, especially if one life style is suffering or could suffer because of the problem. >Unlike most commercial beekeepers, we drove during the day and stopped for >a few hours at night. I have been on the road with bees as many as 200 nights and days per year and never have met a beekeeper, commercial or otherwise, that stops during the day except in an emergency or a pit stop when moving bees. I have met many at truck stops across the nation during the night when we stop for fuel and food but believe me the norm is to drive during day light hours, even some have been know to have two drivers while others have two log books so they don't have to stop for sleep. But I am sure you are telling the truth, just not sure you are right about the putting this label on all or any commercial beekeepers as the many I know do not plan on stopping during the day and all the problems that causes for their bees and the public. We are not scientists but we do know the difference between right and wrong and burden 100% of the responsibility for our own actions when it comes to working with our bees or the actions of those who work for us. > Why? Because the bees can't thermo-regulate >properly when the truck stops during the day. They can fan, but need water >and lots of air movement. At night, when the sun is no longer beating down >on the boxes, they have a chance of cooling (don't need as much air flow) - >if they can get water. Interesting, but very old information...and one only need a small amount of common sense and not a doctorate to figure this out I hope. >One lesson that we learned very quickly - refueling stops during the day >are when things can quickly escalate out of control. Pull in to a fuel >station, stop, and the temperature begins to climb in less than 5 minutes >(down right scarey). In our case, we added a small generator and fan to >move air through the load (during these stops or any roadside breakdowns). >Without the fan system - don't stop! Proper every day normal pre bee movement planning would include amounts of fuel, coffee, sodas, and junk food so day time stops are not required. This is a no brainier for most beekeepers who move bees long distances. To add this kind of equipment to bee trucks would reduce the number of hives that could be carried and increase the cost per hive for every load moved. We are looking for things to increase our productivity not increase costs. Loss from breakdowns is very rare and any bee loss of bees is covered by cargo insurance that is required before any trucker moves bees commercially over the road. Beekeepers who move their own bees are assumeing this loss risk by not having cargo insurance. Most hives are now value at over $120. for cargo insurance coverage because so many are going to or from pollination jobs. >Typically, the western part of the trip is hot and dry and water is >critical. As we near the east coast with its high humidity, we sometimes >had the opposite problem - the confined bees could literally drown in their >own condensation. In fact, after three years, the only bees lost in >transit were from excess moisture - For sure when large amounts of bees expire due to suffocation their appears to be an excess of moisture. I have never tested it to see what it really was, heck I never even tasted it. In the old day when hives were screened top and bottom this moisture was thought to be nectar that splashed out and drown the bees but in most cases I am sure this was not true but in some I am also sure it was as I did taste it once and it was nectar. I can tell you from experience and for a fact it matters not what the condition or humidity of the air is as all bee suffocation have this excess moisture appearance in common even in areas of little or no humidity such as the highs of the Rocky mountains or the arid southwest. >overnight move of only a couple of miles. So, when working under humid >conditions, be sure to provide plenty of ventilation and keep that air moving. The rule beekeepers should remember is that cold bees can be revived but seldom are overheated ones and even if they live don't have much value...Cold bees will fall down in a package bee cage but this seems not to harm them and they do not smother because of it and will get back up when warmed up. When hot bees drop and smother each other and they are dead and don't get up. ttul, Andy- Los Banos, California (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:32:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit We in Connecticut also have a moisture problem. I use an insulation between the inner cover and top cover. It's absorb ant and collects the moisture that the hive generates and holds it so that it does not fall back down on the bees. It also has a 3/4 inch slot in it so the bees can exit from the bee, also for ventilation. You can used something like ceiling panels cut down to fit. Works like a charm. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:20:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Moving Bees, Smothering Mites, Etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >These trips are planned with NO stops >for fuel or food during daylight hours other then emergency except when the >weather is so cold the chance of any bees coming out is null. I wonder what happens if the bees arrive at their destination at noon. Do the beekeepers unload at mid-day? If so is there much problem with drifting? Do they continue to water them? Or do they plan not to arrive during the heat of the day. >Some carry special equipment to make watering fast and >easy, others make arrangement for the use of them at pre arranged water >stops. Something that I have not seen much written about is what beekeepers >do before loading the hives and this includes some very efficient watering >systems that vary from beekeeper to beekeeper. I have helped load many >truck loads of 400-500 hives of bees most of the time without the need for >a veil because of the better watering systems in use today. Andy, I would *very* much like to hear about these systems. >At the same time it would be very productive to work out the bee >environmental problems that have been experienced in hauling bees enclosed >in a refrigerated van as that would contribute to the next advance in >moving bees when the public could be 100% protected from exposure to bees, I did send a semiload of bees (400 hives) to Arizona a number of years ago by reefer. We built special ducts in the front and kept one tiny door open at the back. AFAIK they arrived just fine. However that was November. Just the same, they did go through Las Vegas at mid-day and the truckers said they did stop for lunch. >>As far as I can determine, the notion that Mineral Oil smothers mites is a >>"guess" promulgated by this list. It seems to be derived from the fact that >>Vaseline smothers mites. Well, actually it came from Dr. Rodriguez' talk at the ABF convention in Virginia last year. He put up a large slide of the mite and explained that due to differences of scale and the small size of the varroa's pores and the mechanism by which they control their body moisture, that they were susceptible to small amounts of oil that would not bother bees due to the larger size of everything on the bee. Effects that are weak at larger sizes get relatively stronger as the scale decreases. ...Something to do with capillary action and surface tension and viscosity and water bugs walking on water wheras we can't... >> A better guess may be that the oil or grease interfers with the >>ability of the mite to properly find and identify its host (with some >>pretty good evidence that this is the case for the blind tracheal mite). I believe Sammataro did some work on the attractiveness of young bees coated with oil when working with tracheal mites. Her video is a must to see. Even better than Ulee's Gold. >>One lesson that we learned very quickly - refueling stops during the day >>are when things can quickly escalate out of control. Pull in to a fuel >>station, stop, and the temperature begins to climb in less than 5 minutes >>(down right scarey). In our case, we added a small generator and fan to >>move air through the load (during these stops or any roadside breakdowns). >>Without the fan system - don't stop! Good advice, Jerry, and much appreciated. Some people don't know that and it bears repeating. >The rule beekeepers should remember is that cold bees can be revived but >seldom are overheated ones and even if they live don't have much >value...Cold bees will fall down in a package bee cage but this seems not >to harm them and they do not smother because of it and will get back up >when warmed up I wonder about the chilled bees. I contend that, yes, they do get back up and look okay, but only long enough to sell to a northern beekeeper. In my early years I bought some packages that I found out later had been chilled. They looked okay on arrival, but did not stay up; they dropped again the first night (which was cool) and had to be combined two for one to make decent colonies. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:02:09 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Moving Bees, Smothering Mites, Etc. In-Reply-To: <000c01bd5b8a$f60cf260$b5e5a1c6@allen> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:20 PM 3/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >I wonder what happens if the bees arrive at their destination at noon. Do >the beekeepers unload at mid-day? If so is there much problem with >drifting? Do they continue to water them? Or do they plan not to arrive >during the heat of the day. Come on Allen, you know how many hours it is to Grandmother's house, most plan that trip to arrive at a time that insures they will get a good meal and not in the middle of the night and not so early that they will have to mow the lawn or something. The same type of logic is used to plan long distance moves of bees. Trucks mostly arrive here in the middle of the night so they can be unloaded by daylight and make a back haul from the bay area or southern California. No one plans to arrive in the heat of the day the plan is not too. If a driver was to screw up we would do our best to keep the bees cool by removing the nets and work with the hand we were dealt, which could be unloading the truck right away or waiting until it cooled off. This has never happened to me that I can remember with bees transported by bee haulers so I can't say from experience but it would not be the normal. But people who are in the business of transporting bees across country know how to arrange their schedule so they arrive at the best time as ordered by the shipper and I am sure they do stop and sleep at night as the law requires it so that is when adjustments are made in arrival times. During the time of winter when it is foggy here and the night time and day time temperatures are close to the same many loads come in from the north and can be moved day or night as any bee that comes out to see what's up soon goes back in to keep warm and few problems have been reported. As for unloading bees in the middle of the day. I did have one very bad experience with this years ago. In the early summer it is foggy and cool sometime all day on the coast and you can load bees just about anytime. I had a driver who had a hard time listening to directions and he and I were making a load off the coast. I told him to wait until six to load, but we arrived about two several miles apart to load. I had a bad feeling that he would just load and leave and knew it was 90 to 100 degrees in the valley 50 miles away from the coast and the bees would explode off the truck in that heat if they had the light to see by. I loaded as fast as I could so I could rush over and make sure my helper did not leave too early, when I got there he was gone and as fast as I could I got on his trail. I caught up with him just as he reached the sunshine and warm temperatures and it was too late to turn back. It was a mess, the bees covered everyone's wind shield and they all had their wipers on to try to clean them off. I never have seen so many index fingers raised toward anyone as what we got when we got to wide spots in the road so people could pass. At last we made it to the farm location after about one hours trip in the hot sun. I unloaded as fast as it was possible and the bees fogged out by the millions paying no attention to any amount of smoke. They were not happy but we got the job done without being stung to death. As we left the bee yard the bees were a black cloud over the yard. I wish this was the end of the story, but I had to return the next day to check things out. I could not believe what I found. Dozens of swarms of bees as large as man on willow trees maybe a 100 yards away. I hoped they would come back but that did not make it happen. The 250 hives were just about a total loss as so many adult bees left the queen and a few young bees could not care for the brood or regulate the temperature and many just died out within a few weeks those left took the rest of the season to look normal but never were worth the effort to keep them. I really could blame no one but myself and I now know that to turn back away from the heat of the valley for a few hours would have been the right thing to do the next time. There never was a next time, thank God. >Andy, I would *very* much like to hear about these systems. Nothing more then standard orchard spray rigs washed clean of chemicals. >I did send a semiload of bees (400 hives) to Arizona a number of years ago >by reefer. We built special ducts in the front and kept one tiny door open >at the back. AFAIK they arrived just fine. However that was November. >Just the same, they did go through Las Vegas at mid-day and the truckers >said they did stop for lunch. Yeah, it can and is done, but......problems have been reported and I am not sure if anyone is using this type of equipment to move bees today on a regular basis. >>>As far as I can determine, the notion that Mineral Oil smothers mites is a >>>"guess" promulgated by this list. It seems to be derived from the fact >Well, actually it came from Dr. Rodriguez' talk at the ABF convention in >Virginia last year. He put up a large slide of the mite and explained that >due to differences of scale and the small size of the varroa's pores and the >mechanism by which they control their body moisture, that they were >susceptible to small amounts of oil that would not bother bees due to the >larger size of everything on the bee. Effects that are weak at larger sizes >get relatively stronger as the scale decreases. ...Something to do with >capillary action and surface tension and viscosity and water bugs walking on >water wheras we can't... I can buy that, but it really matters little how it works as long as it works. >I believe Sammataro did some work on the attractiveness of young bees coated >with oil when working with tracheal mites. Her video is a must to see. Even >better than Ulee's Gold. Well I have not seen Ulee's Gold but I will watch late nite TV for Sammataro movie unless you want to loan it to me. >>The rule beekeepers should remember is that cold bees can be revived but >>seldom are overheated ones and even if they live don't have much >>value...Cold bees will fall down in a package bee cage but this seems not >>to harm them and they do not smother because of it and will get back up >>when warmed up >I wonder about the chilled bees. I contend that, yes, they do get back up >and look okay, but only long enough to sell to a northern beekeeper. In my >early years I bought some packages that I found out later had been chilled. >They looked okay on arrival, but did not stay up; they dropped again the >first night (which was cool) and had to be combined two for one to make >decent colonies. Well my point is that the over heated one's don't get up at all. But from my own experience with thousands of packages I made and used myself I never lost a hive because of the cold. I sure you did but I was lucky. I loved the cold, I would divide the four ponders into two and dump in the queen and run home to warm up in a few hours instead of days. The first time I did this I just knew all was lost, but that was a real good year and never had to replace a dozen queens in the 1,000 plus hives. I always waited until the last day of the bee shipping season to take my own packages to Colorado and most of the time the weather was spring like when I got there and it would take several evening of hard work to get them all in. I made up some of the late start with feed and drugs but in the end a reduction in crop was also taken but it paid as the costs never ran much over 70 man days for the total operation and we were never there more then 30 days in any one year and had time to fish two or three times each and every day we were out in the field. . ...I love it all, the snow that covered the 1st cutting of hay in July, they only make one cutting a season, the thunder storms every after noon and the fat skunks running around town at dusk cleaning up all the dog and cat food left out... and thousands and thousands of Elk in herd's...the deer following behind the bailer...the sheep herders and their distinctive trailers with the same for their horse...the beef shortage with fat cattle in every pasture... and one year no chicken.. the local restraints that opened at 8 am and close at 7pm, they roll up the sidewalks...and the God Blessed rodeo ground down the hill from the honey house and most of all country music, Coors beer so weak the football coach treated the team after every practice.. friendly people who respect others hard work and property...and then came oil shale and all went to hell in a hand basket and I sold out twice but the 2nd time it stuck...well the oil shale boom busted and all went away but I have never returned to Meeker, Colorado, American west as it once was. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 21:09:56 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Honey bees v Wild Bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does anyone know of the work of Graham Pyke in Australia and David Roubik & >William Schaeffer in North America which raises concerns about the impact of >honey bees on native wild bees? Graham Pyke is known to apiarists in Australia as a campaigner against honey bees on the grounds that they are not native species. He is not employed in research related to honeybees and apiarist associations challenge his media releases on the basis of inaccuracies and exaggerations. He is pursuing a personal campaign against honeybees. As far as pollination is concerned I put more faith in a C.S.I.R.O. research report that eucalyptus species benefitted from pollination by honeybees, with greater number of seeds and more weight per seed being measurable when honey bees take the role of pollinator. Dr. David Paton has conducted research for a number of years on feral bees on Kangaroo Island and also the effect of honeybees on the population of native pollinators in the Ngarkat Conservation Park (which was declared a conservation site on the urging of beekeepers as a national resource). This research was funded by the Conservation Council. I have not seen a final report on this but the initial conclusion was that no detrimental effect on native pollinating species could be established. There has also been research conducted on whether honeybees compete for nesting sites to the detriment of the Orange Bellied Parrot. This indicated that the size of hollows preferred by honeybees was not suitable for the bird. Honey bees are extremely effective pollinators. The native bee and Australian insects and birds that were the main pollination agency (apart from wind) prior to introduction of honey bees are less effective. Birds can migrate between nectar sources and eucalypts have evolved producing massive amounts of nectar and pollen on cycles varying from annually to 20+ years. This cyclical flowering is reflected amongst feral honeybees in that hive numbers rise and fall over a period of years. Potential nesting sites that have been occupied by bees are then colonised by birds or possums who consume the larvae, honey and wax. This does not appear to be recognised by the anti-bee campaigners who insist that 10% of all potential hollows are invaded by bees each year, presumably denying the hollow to any other occupants for all time. Surveys by beekeepers indicate that of 100 potential nesting hollows in an established eucalypt forest, 4 are occupied by birds. (It is a little harder to tell if possums are occupying hollows). There are moves for co-operation between conservationists and beekeepers to address real problems by consultation and assistance. Beekeepers are advising on artificial nest designs that are not attractive to honeybee swarms, are trapping feral swarms and educating National Park staff on the inter-action of honeybees and the flowering cycle. Graham Pyke is not a participant in this process. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Comments: Authenticated sender is From: aweinert Subject: Buckwheat honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been doing some research into buck wheat and see that this honey is supposed to be prised in the US and Canada. Is this still the case and is there a market for it. Also how long dose it yield for and how much can one expecx from a hive thanks Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 07:15:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gary Bradshaw Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology > [mailto:BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU]On Behalf Of GImasterBK > Sent: Sunday, March 29, 1998 6:07 PM > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony > > > Bob: You are new to bees, and unfortunately "it shows". This is almost > April, and apparently you did not examine INSIDE YOUR HIVE from > about October. > Only God can diagnose bee problems from outside a colony! I > demand that all > my "students" examine the inside of a colony at least once/month in Nov., > Dec., & Jan. and at least twice each month in Feb. and March. > Remember that > next winter! > George Imirie, 65 years with bees in Maryland > George - with an attitude like this, I am surprised that you have any students! Being a 'Master Beekeeper' doesn't make you infailable nor does it give you the right to belittle a new beekeeper. We all make mistakes unless of course our name is Imirie. Gary ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:07:54 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JOHN TAYLOR Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:06:50 EST, you wrote: >Bob: You are new to bees, and unfortunately "it shows". This is almost >April, and apparently you did not examine INSIDE YOUR HIVE from about = October. >Only God can diagnose bee problems from outside a colony! I demand that= all >my "students" examine the inside of a colony at least once/month in = Nov., >Dec., & Jan. and at least twice each month in Feb. and March. Remember = that >next winter! I'm in a situation similar to that of Bob. I'm new. I've lost my colonies the last two winters (my first two years). I suspect tracheal mite the first winter - however, I had a ton of dead bees in the hive. They had been alright through the winter and died after a mild period, followed by a nasty cold snap. This last winter I got varroa mites. Found a few dead bees, an empty hive and what I believe are dead mites on the bottom board (somewhat sesame seed color and shape, but much smaller). Tell me more about looking into the hive in the winter. I thought you don't get into a hive below about 60 degrees. =20 -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:16:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Buckwheat honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I have been doing some research into buck wheat and see that this >honey is supposed to be prised in the US and Canada. > >Is this still the case and is there a market for it. Also how long >dose it yield for and how much can one expecx from a hive > >thanks > >Andrew There is still a specialty market for buckwheat, and the price is good, if it is straight buckwheat honey. The problem many beekeepers encounter in buckwheat areas is that it darkens up the honey from lighter sources that bloom concurrently. This tends to lower the overall wholesale price of the crop. Some honey packers purchase straight buckwheat honey but then mix milder honeys in prior to bottling. As one guy told me, "people don't like pure buckwheat -- it's way too strong." Here in NY I have had yards located between Cayuga and Seneca Lakes, that would yield 2-3 supers of buckwheat honey (up to 70 lbs. or so). The yield of course depends on the surrounding acreage. The bloom lasts through most of August, usually. An interesting note regarding this crop: evidently it only yields nectar in the morning, and then tapers off. If you go into a yard of bees in the afternoon they can be quite cross! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:18:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James P Parkman Subject: OLd Drone makes defecation flight, again In-Reply-To: <199803300504.VAA14314@mail.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Once again we are subjected to the lengthy tirades of Mr. Nachbauer. In fairness he offers some first hand knowledge and advice useful to some beekeepers. But it could be said in 2-3 paragraphs not an epistle. Apparently some members of the list have to pay based on the amount of email received. Long-winded posts are not in their ( or anyone else's) best interest. We are sending electronic mail posts to the world, not talking over our back fences. Most of us aren't retirees with nothing better to do than pontificate, belittle and reminisce. Have a nice day. J. Patrick Parkman University of Tennessee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:26:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Moving Bees, Smothering Mites, Etc. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:37 PM 3/29/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 12:25 PM 3/29/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi Jerry and All Beekeepers, > >Jerry, I always enjoy your comments and scientific reports and appreciate >your help but expect different then what I read here from any >scientist...beekeeper or not. >The continual challenge of any beekeeper's opinion because of the lack of >science does not add anything to resolving problems and changes only the >few with flex able opinions and in my opinion is the wrong path that so >many scientists seen to need to use, maybe only to express their own lack >of practicable experience or knowledge. Whew!! I knew it was too good to last. Andy said something nice about us in his last post, then took me to task. First, I am not picking fights between "scientists" and beekeepers. I was trained by commercial beekeepers and have only been able to keep the research going with the help of both hobbiest and commercial beekeepers. However, I do muddle around in a field called science - that implies a life-long addiction to a "systematic" search for accurate "facts". Pointing out that we don't know the mechanism by which mineral oil kills mites in beehives is not an issue of a scientist against the beekeepers. It just means that we don't really know the mechanism, and the apparently obvious answer may or may not be the right one. But the oil smothering notion has begun to sound like dogma; and it may not be right. Those of us who wear the title of scientist are trained to be critical of making claims without solid evidence. Is there evidence that oil smothers mites - yes. But there is evidence that oil may have operate in other ways in beehives - i.e., Sammataro for one. Scientists aren't saints. We make unsubstantiated claims more often than we would care to admit. But we are trained to be critical, of ourselves, and or others who claim to have the "facts". My students have trouble understanding why we write articles for journals that send them out for review. Each paper comes back with lots of comments (many of which can be frustrating and upsetting), but every so often a reviewer hits on a critical weakness. After we recover from the criticism and respond to it, we then get to pay a page charge to get it published. Something the journalism students cringe at - paying to get yourself published. Anyway, I am wandering off track. As per moving the bees. No one doubts that commercial beekeepers know how to move bees - and yes Andy I have moved hundreds of colonies. No, semi's can't roll through Montana at 85 (legally), although some do hit that speed. Smaller trucks often run that fast and don't get stopped - its a judgement call by the person in the car with the lights on top. I offered my comments for two reasons: 1) Questions from beekeepers who haven't moved thousands of colonies over a period spanning decades 2) We were carrying loads across the U.S. with probes equipped to monitor actual temperatures in the colonies in the load. Yes, it verifies the obvious - but even we were surprised about the speed with which the load heats up if you stop, how little water it takes to cool them down if you can get the water to them. 3) Most commercial semi's going between MT and CA don't stop, and many have a relief driver. But I think most states have a 10 hr limit on any given driver. Drive bees from MT to the east coast, and you either need a relief driver, or you need to find a time to stop. If you must stop, our temperature probes say do it at night. Skip that lunch break - you can't believe how much stress that can put on the hives in the middle of the day. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:40:15 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JOHN TAYLOR Subject: Re: FGMO treatment In-Reply-To: <199803290157.RAA04133@mail.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope that I haven't missed this in an earlier message . . . By treating for varroa mites with FGMO, will that also cover tracheal mites and replace grease patties? Also, I've seen references to some type of FGMO treatment of top bars, both by spraying and some other type of application (spreading?). What is the other type of application? -- John Taylor -- Wild Rose Creek Apiary Southeast Missouri When in danger, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:34:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Mike Swintosky ([330] 471-3128)" Subject: Blue Ridge Apiaries Does anyone have experience buying package bees or queens from Blue Ridge Apiaries? I would be interested in all comments, good or otherwise. Reply directly to me at swintosk@timken.com. Thanks! Mike Dellroy, Ohio 3 hives, going on 5 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 07:11:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Sites Now Work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT AFAIK, the bugs are now hopefully shaken out of my websites. Both the Free Bee Classified Ads and the Homemade Bee Science sites should work okay now. Please let me know if they continue to cause any problems or if the web server 'hangs' while you are reading or posting. TIA Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:24:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Apiaries In-Reply-To: <199803301440.AA13430@gateway.timken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Does anyone have experience buying package bees or queens from Blue Ridge > Apiaries? I would be interested in all comments, good or otherwise. Reply > directly to me at swintosk@timken.com. Thanks! The name sounds awfully familiar. If they're the guys in Cayce, South Carolina, stay away. They never deliver! One time I waited three months past the scheduled delivery date and still nothing. Everytime I called, they said it was ready to ship and I'd have it in a few days. Eventually, I gave up and asked for the money back. When the money didn't get refunded, I asked the credit card company to credit me. If I'm confusing these bums with a reputable firm, I ask Blue Ridge Apiaries to accept my apology. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:33:11 -0500 Reply-To: kferner@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kferner Subject: Finding Stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I am working on doing a presentation on beekeeping for kids in school and libraries. I am looking for honey sample packs to be able to pass out to the kids to taste honey, or something along that line, and also for anything else I could use to show these kids about beekeeping. My husband is a beekeeper and I am his "helper" so I already have a suit and tools and I will use a hive box and a super with frames to "try" to explain the process, keeping it as simple as possible. Anyone know of any other educational tools I might use to help create this program?? I remember seeing some advertised in one of our beekeeping journals, but can't find it. THanks for any help. Karen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:17:20 -0600 Reply-To: rcanaday@ionet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Canaday Subject: Re: OLd Drone makes defecation flight, again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose that's one of the real beauties of the system. I'm free to read or not read whatever I want. Scanning back several months, I see many unread messages in my INBOX, but none of them are Andy's. I always read his, because I enjoy them so much. And I also forward them to my dad, who also enjoys them very much. And it is a really beautiful day, except that the wind is a little strong for the bees. I miss Dr. R., & his posts, too. Oh well, so much for my little defecation flight. Sorry if I've wasted anyone's time. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 16:56:30 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: " Coalition of Maverick Beekeepers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reprinted without permission March Issue American Bee Journal CONCERNED BEEKEEPERS Form Educational Group Alvin Texas-A number of U.S. honey producers are deeply concerned that the recently approved policies of the American Honey Producers Association (AHPA) and the American Beekeeping Federation(ABF) may, if finally adopted into law, actually rob the U.S. producer of any opportunity to sell his product for a decent price. Anticipating this eventuality, a group of honey industry leaders have banded together for the express purpose of championing the U.S. producers cause. This new group will be called " Coalition Of Maverick Beekeepers" (COMB) COMB its members say, will mainly devote attention to educating the U.S. honey producers about the nuts and bolts of a smooth running check off program and how best to protect their rights when dealing with non-producer groups such as the packers and dealers. Glenn Gibson, Oklahoma and Jerry Stroope , Texas will co-chair the coalition. Both men are past presidents of the AHPA. "A five man Executive Board of Directors has been set up, but appointments have not been confirmed," Chairman Stroope said. This was the end of the article with the huge dis-service being done to the readers of ABJ by not giving contact phone numbers. Jerry Stroope office phone number is 281-996-1523 Fax. 281-996-9484 e-mail stroope@wt.net mail Rt.3,Box 258 Alvin, Texas 77511 CONTRIBUTIONS AND MEMBER SUPPORT ARE NEEDED NOW BEEKEEPERS come to attention and speak out before it is too late. Walter Patton a COMB supporter PS I have heard that none of the BEE organizations and the Publications ABJ and BEE CULTURE will not print any more letters about the National Honey Board Issue. Futher they may not accept paid advertising about the NHB issue. I hope this is wrong and I will find out and repoert back to the list. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:46:44 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: " Coalition of Maverick Beekeepers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WAKE US BEEKEEPERS Learn about the National Honey Board ISSUES. Join COMB today and volunteer to do some telephone and letter writing work Jerry Stroope Organizer COMB office phone number is 281-996-1523 Fax. 281-996-9484 e-mail stroope@wt.net mail Rt.3,Box 258 Alvin, Texas 77511 CONTRIBUTIONS AND MEMBER SUPPORT ARE NEEDED NOW BEEKEEPERS come to attention and speak out before it is too late. > PS I have heard that none of the BEE organizations and the Publications > ABJ and BEE CULTURE will not print any more letters about the National > Honey Board Issue. > Futher they may not accept paid advertising about the NHB issue. I hope > this is wrong and I will find out and repoert back to the list. Correction I called today and the correct information is: I just spoke to Joe Graham at ABJ and he said that the ABJ would run the letters submitted by April 30th (double check that date) in the June issue. He said he had notified the three groups AHPA, ABF and COMB of the deadlines. He did confirm that ABJ would not accept paid ads about the issue. He also agreed to print in the May issue the contact information for COMB if submitted this week. He said he only ran the COMB article in the March issue as it was submitted. His e-mail is ABJ@Dadant.com I just hung up with Kim Flottum at BEE Culture and he reports that he will only run short editorials about the NHB issue if submitted. He says he is flooded with long letters about the issue and his editorial decision is that he can not do the issue Justice even if he gave 6 pages to the issue. He did say that Paid advertising would be accepted and published. He also said he would run in his May issue the COMB information about organization efforts and the contact information if submitted this week his deadline is now and his e-mail is kim@AIRoot.com Come on Beekeepers this is a BIG issue. Walter in Hawaii A fighting mad COMB member ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:57:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Re: OLd Drone makes defecation flight, again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, I think Andy Nachbaur can defend himself perfectly well, however let me say that your message is impolite and ofensive. I am quite glad to have Andy's comments and reports. Since I joined Bee-L I could hardly find more valuable contributions than those from Andy Nachbaur. His insight and experience are not common gifts among beekeepers. You can learn a lot from him and be a much better beekeeper. Martin Braunstein Malka Cabania Apicola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:50:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: Re: OLd Drone makes defecation flight, again In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, James P Parkman wrote: >Once again we are subjected to the lengthy tirades of Mr. Nachbauer. In Yes, it is Monday morning again, back to the 'grind'. Go have another cup of coffee and *relax*. As a new beekeeper, I, for one, enjoy reading the Old Drone's 'tirades'(?). >Apparently some members of the list have to pay based on the amount of >email received. Long-winded posts are not in their ( or anyone I would *much* rather read a long, interesting post pertaining to beekeeping than a lengthy one containing requoted previous messages (unedited) with "Me, too" at the very end. >Have a nice day. You, too. But first have that cup of coffee. It's only Monday. bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@pobox.com second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so far) bob-bee@pobox.com (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: the cure for the Windows 95 virus. -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:53:06 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Cornell Stock Improvement Program - calling all queens! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I received a request to post the following program announcement from Cornell University. You may have seen this published in ABJ or Bee Culture, and in an attempt to reach as wide an audience as possible it is included here on BEE-L. This program may be a candidate for inclusion on Andy's top ten list. The potential for results is high provided the beekeeping community provides the requested input. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! CORNELL UNIVERSITY STOCK IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM Cornell University is establishing a honey bee stock improvement program. The long-term goal is to develop stocks of honey bees that can serve as sources for breeder queens for commercial queen producers. To achieve this goal, it is necessary to evaluate bees from as many different sources as possible. The best queens for initial screening are naturally-mated, supercedure queens or naturally-mated queens that you reared yourself. I would like to start by screening workers from 150 - 200 different sources representing as many different geographical regions throughout the country as possible. If you would like to donate 1 or 2 HIGH QUALITY QUEENS reared this spring or sometime last year, please contact Dyce Laboratory for Honey Bee Studies at 607-255-5443. Leave a message and your call will be returned. BE SURE TO LEAVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, AS WELL AS YOUR CITY AND STATE. your city and state. Target shipping dates are April 15th through May 15th. Your support is very important and deeply appreciated. **************************************** * Nicholas W. Calderone * * Assistant Professor of Apiculture * * Department of Entomology * * Comstock Hall * * Cornell University * * Ithaca, NY 14853 * **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:29:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Rupert Subject: Another new-bee what-should-I-do question I live in southwest Missouri. Last November I acquired 3 colonies of bees from Pennsylvania. Each hive consists of two hive bodies and all three colonies were made from last years' swarms. Colony #1 was made from an early swarm and colonies #2 and #3 came from swarms later in the year. I was told that each had plenty of stores. When we unloaded them from the truck the weight differences were obvious. Colony #1 was much heavier and I was told it had a large bee population, and had produced three medium supers of honey last season. Colonies 2 and 3 were noticeably lighter. I did not open the colonies (except to peer down through the inner cover hole to check for stores) until late February when I installed Apistan strips and Terramycin patties in each colony. Here is what I noted at the time: Colony #1 was very full of bees with large amounts in both hive bodies. I did not remove any frames but by observation and the weight of the top hive body I judged it had plenty of stores. I installed two Apistan strips in the lower hive body and a patty on top of the frames. Colony #2 had only a small cluster of bees mostly on the center three frames of the lower hive body. I did not remove any frames. There were plenty of stores. I installed two Apistan strips in the cluster and a patty over the frames. Colony #3 had a small cluster in each hive body. Again I did not remove any frames and there were plenty of stores. Not knowing which cluster might contain brood, I installed an Apistan strip in the middle of each cluster and a patty over the frames in the lower hive body. March 22 was a warm day so I decided to open the colonies for inspection. This is what I found: I examined the weakest hive (#2) first. The bees were still clustered in the lower hive body on the center three frames. The bees were flying and bringing in pollen. I looked at each frame but saw very little capped brood, maybe 10% of one frame. I saw no eggs or larvae. I did find the queen and I watched her for a short period and she appeared to wander aimlessly. Practically none of the patty had been removed. I cleaned off some of the burr comb, cleaned the bottom board, moved a couple of frames of honey in next to the cluster, and reassembled the colony. Next I examined colony #3. It still had a small cluster in each hive body, each cluster about the size of the single cluster in colony #2. I inspected each frame and found some green mold on one outside frame in the lower hive body. There was a small amount of capped brood on one frame in the lower cluster. I cleaned off some of the burr comb (there was a lot) and also cleaned off the bottom board. I then looked at the cluster in the upper hive body. There was more brood there but still on only one frame. I never did see the queen. I didn't open colony #1 because the weather turned cool. for the past couple weeks I have been feeding 1:1 syrup with fumidil by inverting a jar over the innercover. I re-read all the reference material I have and tentatively decided on the following course of action: 1. Order a new queen. (This I have done and a new buckfast queen should be here on April 24.) 2. Rearrange the two clusters of bees in colony #3 so that all bees are in the lower hive body. 3. Unite colonies #2 and #3. 4. When the new queen arrives, place her above the united colony over a double screen board with several frames of capped brood and nurse bees from colony #1 ( the strong colony). This past Saturday (March 28) was another warm day so I inspected colonies #2 and #3 again. Colony #2 looked the same as the previous week with a small amount of larvae and capped brood on only 1 frame. In colony #3 there was noticeably more larvae on the three frames that make up the upper cluster. I moved those frames to the lower hive body with the rest of the bees and made sure that adjacent frames were full of honey. I refilled the syrup jars. My goal is to end up with two strong colonies instead of 1 strong and two weak, and also to (hopefully) reduce the likelihood of swarming in colony #1. But after this latest inspection I wonder if my plan is the correct one. Since there was noticeably more larvae in colony #3 maybe that queen is okay. Should I: a. Continue with the plan I outlined above? - or - b. Unite colonies #2 and #3, killing the queen in colony #2 (the weakest colony) and add several frames of brood from colony #1. When the new queen arrives introduce her in colony #1 ? (since this colony came from an early swarm last year, this queen could date from 1996, couldn't it ?) - or - c. Some other approach that I haven't thought of? TIA Rod Rupert rrupert@mail.orion.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 07:29:16 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: Eucalyptus Information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bob Keep me posted if you find the article. Walter ---------- > From: Bobstjohn > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Eucalyptus Information > Date: Saturday, March 07, 1998 10:00 PM > > Walter; > > The state has a list of eucalyptus and their honey producing abilities. I have > a copy somewhere and will give it to you if I ever find it. I think I got mine > from the forest association. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:43:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LJConnor Subject: Re: Laidlaw Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi For U.K suppliers of newest Laidlaw book: Try Jerry Burbage at Northern Bee Books, International Bee Research Association or Karl Showler at B & K Books of Hay-on-Wye. L. Connor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:46:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Andy Nachbaur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT OLD TOPIC!!! Don't like Andy's post? Don't read 'em! For the rest of the story, send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu that reads: SEARCH BEE-L Nachbaur Aaron Morris - thinking, no wishing I had Andy's bee brain! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:18:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, GImasterBK wrote: >Bob: You are new to bees, and unfortunately "it shows". This is almost I sure am. In my short time, I've made some *really fine* mistakes. From reading the experiences of the Old Drone and others on the list, I can see in coming years I will make some *really fine* mistakes in beekeeping. As you can see, I'm making a good start. :-) >April, and apparently you did not examine INSIDE YOUR HIVE from about October. No, I stopped check the colonies when the cold weather set it last Fall. Everything I have read basically said to avoid opening colonies when the temperature gets below 50 F. Inspecting colonies during the cold of Winter seems to be needlessly stressful on them. Certainly merely lifting the cover will not tell me a lot, except maybe it was too damp inside--or am I clueless here? Up to the time I stopped checking, both colonies appeared to be doing quite well. I let them keep all their late Summer/Fall honey. Up to that point everything seemed normal. They had plenty of capped frames in both supers. >Dec., & Jan. and at least twice each month in Feb. and March. Remember that >next winter! Even in the cold weather? That seems counter-productive. What am I missing here? I can't "should have in January/February in late March". Yes, I should have checked more thoroughly back in February; but at that point, the damage was already done. I would know what I discovered later on--a dead colony; only I would know it a few weeks earlier. While I do want some clues as to what I did wrong, my main cry for help is what to do *now* to rebuild. >chalk brood, and poor handling by beekeepers. You can't keep bees like Daddy >did! Times have changed. You have a computer and e-mail - Daddy didn't! 'Daddy' never kept bees; although he thinks it's cool. I'm the first one in my family to even try. My family already thinks I'm 'weird' since I play with ham radio, computers and other 'odd' things. Taking up beekeeping hasn't really surprised them much. :-) But I get your point. If I discovered a collapsing colony in Jan/Feb, what should I have done? Could I have done anything more than simply wait until the warm weather arrive? >Don't get discouraged, just learn more. LEARN LEARN LEARN. I don't get discouraged easily. I think beekeeping is cool. I'm hooked on the little critters for the long haul. :-) I expect to make mistakes. Having a resource like this list makes the mistakes a little easier to deal with. bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@pobox.com second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so far) bob-bee@pobox.com (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: the cure for the Windows 95 virus. -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:24:06 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Buckwheat honey Comments: To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-30 07:09:35 EST, aweinert@tpgi.com.au (aweinert) writes: << I have been doing some research into buck wheat and see that this honey is supposed to be prised in the US and Canada. Is this still the case and is there a market for it. Also how long dose it yield for and how much can one expecx from a hive >> I grew up on buckwheat honey, and it is still my favorite, as it is for many in my generation and older. Unfortunately, buckwheat acreages are much reduced from previous years, and the new hybrid varities do not yield as much nectar as the old. Some of the market has been spoiled by beekeeper fraud, ie, mixing other dark honeys, and/or cappings melter honey into buckwheat. There is also some replacement by a plant invader, Japanese Bamboo, which is actually a wild buckwheat, and makes a nice honey, though milder in taste. Back in the glory days, some New York beekeepers made 200 pounds or more on buckwheat honey. (And some had already made a hundred pounds or so on sweet clover. Some younger beekeepers would not believe this possible, but I've seen records of some of the old beekeepers who AVERAGED 300+ lb crops. The old varieties of buckwheat were some of the best honey producing plants that have ever been prized by beekeepers. Bee yard locations where the bees could fly one way to sweet soils for the early clover flow, and then in another direction for the acid soil, late buckwheat and goldenrod flows, were also valued. Nowadays, the beekeepers more the bees.) Believe it or not, buckwheat grows best on poor, acid soils. A common mistake of a beginner buckwheat grower is to give it fertilizer. The plant then makes great growth, but very little seed. It is not a grain; it is a broadleaf plant. In the northeast and north central US, it is sown in early July, comes into bloom in August, with a pretty white flower, and is usually covered with bees through the morning hours. At midday, the plant suddenly stops producing nectar, and woe be to the beekeeper who tries to handle the bees in the afternoon. A buckwheat flow is wonderful, but the bees are equally awful, when they are mad about the flow shutoff. The seed is harvested by combining in September. One unfortunate drawback for the growers is that the seeds do not all ripen together. If a grower waits until the later seeds are dry, he risks a wind shucking out all the early seeds onto the ground. So yield averages are often poor, or at least not what they could be. Buckweat is sometimes used as a green manure, and it is a great feeder for wildlife. Hope this helps in your quest for information. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:56:55 +0300 Reply-To: Rimantas Zujus Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Beekeeping in Lithuania Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD5C1E.5FA0F440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD5C1E.5FA0F440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Bee-L members Some time ago I was asked to tell about the bee keeping in Lithuania. On = 19.03.98. we had annual meeting of Kaunas beekeepers society. We had a = guest the president of Lithuania beekeepers=92 union Mr. J.Balzekas. He = presented us some news. The union consists of 44 departments (regional beekeepers=92 societies) = including 3421 member (50% of all country=92s beekeepers) with total = 41.000 bee colonies. Average bee density 1.5 colony per 1 square km. The = best ratio is 3 colonies.=20 Dr. J.Balzekas declared his personal achievement in beekeeping: In 5 = years period with 700 hives average honey yield 15 kg per colony. 67% of beekeepers hold from 1 to 10 colonies. It makes 33% of a total = bee colony number. 31% hold 11-50 colonies, 50% of a total bee colony number. 4.2% hold 51-300 colonies, 25 % of a total bee colony number. A beekeeper having 200 colonies can survive in Lithuania without = additional job. The beekeepers are mostly elderly people. Our honey is usually less contaminated if to compare with the western = one. (An economic decrease before 3- 8 years.) Annual membership fee 10 Litas (2.5 USD), much less than 1kg of honey. In 1994 Lithuania entered =93APIMONDIA=94 as a member. Professor P.Karosas presented a plastic hive made under his drawing: 8 = frames, all one size (=93supers=94 i.e. a half of Dadant frame ), 6 = boxes (advisable), queen excluder, a varoa mite grid on the bottom, = feeder-sealing. A possibility to transform a hive to a bottomless. Price = Apr. 200 Litas (50 USD). A number of frames is optimized for bee wintering requirement.=20 I apologize for my delay. A simple reason: last time I=92m very busy. = Saving my time I get now only =93Best of bee digest=94. Therefore your = questions should be sent directly to my e-mail box.=20 Best congratulations to the all List Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm 55 Deg North, 24 Deg East ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD5C1E.5FA0F440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Bee-L members

Some time ago I was asked to tell about the bee = keeping in=20 Lithuania. On 19.03.98. we had annual meeting of Kaunas beekeepers = society. We=20 had a guest the president of Lithuania beekeepers’ union Mr. = J.Balzekas.=20 He presented us some news.

The union consists of 44 departments (regional = beekeepers’=20 societies) including 3421 member (50% of all country’s beekeepers) = with=20 total 41.000 bee colonies. Average bee density 1.5 colony per 1 square = km. The=20 best ratio is 3 colonies.

Dr. J.Balzekas declared his personal achievement in = beekeeping:=20 In 5 years period with 700 hives average honey yield 15 kg per=20 colony.

67% of beekeepers hold from 1 to 10 colonies. It makes = 33% of a=20 total bee colony number.

31% hold 11-50 colonies, 50% of a total bee colony=20 number.

4.2% hold 51-300 colonies, 25 % of a total bee colony=20 number.

A beekeeper having 200 colonies can survive in = Lithuania without=20 additional job. The beekeepers are mostly elderly people.

Our honey is usually less contaminated if to compare = with the=20 western one. (An economic decrease before 3- 8 years.)

Annual membership fee 10 Litas (2.5 USD), much less = than 1kg of=20 honey.

In 1994 Lithuania entered “APIMONDIA” as a = member.

Professor P.Karosas presented a plastic hive made = under his=20 drawing: 8 frames, all one size (“supers” i.e. a half of = Dadant=20 frame ), 6 boxes (advisable), queen excluder, a varoa mite grid on the = bottom,=20 feeder-sealing. A possibility to transform a hive to a bottomless. Price = Apr.=20 200 Litas (50 USD).

A number of frames is optimized for bee wintering = requirement.=20

I apologize for my delay. A simple reason: last time = I’m=20 very busy. Saving my time I get now only “Best of bee = digest”.=20 Therefore your questions should be sent directly to my e-mail box. =

Best congratulations to the all = List

Rimantas Zujus

Kaunas

LITHUANIA

e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt

http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm<= /A>

55 Deg North, 24 Deg East

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD5C1E.5FA0F440-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:30:32 -0500 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: " Coalition of Maverick Beekeepers" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wait a second, COMB is being organized by Jerry Stroope, ex-president of American Honey Producers? The same guy who is now being taken to court for allegedly embezzling money and stealing large office supplies (like a copier) from AHP??? I don't know all the info (only know what little Richard Adee, current president of AHP, released in a letter to the AHP membership) and certainly it is for the courts to decide innocence or guilt, however, I personally will not send a man money for any reason until the theft charges and his name are cleared. Besides, is it not a bad idea to further split beekeepers into yet another group? Wouldn't a united front help us keep from being pushed around so much? (Is my naivete showing?) Kathy Unless Walter Patton wrote: > WAKE US BEEKEEPERS Learn about the National Honey Board ISSUES. > > Join COMB today and volunteer to do some telephone and letter writing > work > > Jerry Stroope Organizer COMB > office phone number is 281-996-1523 Fax. 281-996-9484 > e-mail stroope@wt.net > mail Rt.3,Box 258 Alvin, Texas 77511 > > CONTRIBUTIONS AND MEMBER SUPPORT ARE NEEDED NOW > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:05:20 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: AHB, ABF, NHB, COMB???? POLITICS! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT !!! INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology !!! I have not heard any allegations against Jerry Stroope, would hesitate to pass on any unsubstantiated allegations and encourage others to do the same. If there are indeed charges against Jerry, this is the land of innocent until proven guilty. > Besides, is it not a bad idea to further split beekeepers into yet > another group? Great point! Seems to me that the AHP and the ABF have reached agreement on what to do with the NHB, seems COMB isn't comfortable with that agreement, so now we'll have three (four?) factions quibbling over the issues and ultimately no one will be served, but we'll waste a lot of time, money, effort and bandwidth to accomplish nothing. Problem is, I don't know how EVERYONE will reach an agreement, I have nothing new to offer regarding the issues, hence I'll stay out of it. Requesting that subscribers clearly label further discussion of this alphabet soup in the Subject header with a key word of 'POLITICS' for the benefit of those who care to avoid the discussion. Aaron Morris BEE-L Owner/Editor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:25:20 -0800 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: OLd Drone makes defecation flight, again In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:18 AM 3/30/98 -0500, you wrote: Hi Bee Folks, Of course the poster below is right and in the near past it was indeed a real hardship on the majority to have some poster post long articles all were not interested in or just don't have the time to read, and it may still be that way today in a very few locations. To these people I apologize but must say if you are not interested in what anyone has to say then there are way's of blocking that person's posts from your mail box...check with you system administrator...For most of us e-mail and list mail is not a problem. As to the contents of my own posts I assume all responsibility for the loss of friends it may cause, but you can be sure that some effort does go into each article and consideration is given to what pain it may cause others and myself as no one likes hate mail. Sure there is good, bad, and ugly in all things including beekeeping and I am not the one to sort this out for the group and only report the good,..and in fact I personally want to know the downside of most new things before I make adjustments to my own life's work. What is not said by the poster below is what he would like this list to be about and who he would like to see posted here? Not just who he would not. I am for making adjustments but must know a little more then I what I am doing is a bore which is far from the realities in this list. Dr. Jerry and I, as many other experienced posters know the rules of good posting, and we use them, sometimes it looks personal but don't be confused it is not.. it also is not to polarize the list into groups. What it is that I want other then share with you our own experiences and ideas is that you read what we have to say....and THINK ! Why, because I don't know it all and you may think of something I missed, in that way we all win. I can handle being told I am off base, and I know how to end any tread... Why not take it to personal e-mail you ask? Well we do, but there is nothing more attention getting to think that the whole world is watching. As painful as this process is it is informative and does require both sides of any issue to expand and reinforce their ideas and this is good. I thank all who take the time to read what I post as they do others knowing I am not going post my experiences in one or three paragraph. Special thanks to those who not only take the time to read but post back their own thoughts, good or bad, with style or with none. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California http://209.76.50.54 >Once again we are subjected to the lengthy tirades of Mr. Nachbauer. In >fairness he offers some first hand knowledge and advice useful to some >beekeepers. But it could be said in 2-3 paragraphs not an epistle. >Apparently some members of the list have to pay based on the amount of >email received. Long-winded posts are not in their ( or anyone >else's) best interest. We are sending electronic mail posts to the world, >not talking over our back fences. Most of us aren't retirees with nothing >better to do than pontificate, belittle and reminisce. Have a nice day. >J. Patrick Parkman >University of Tennessee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:22:45 -1000 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: COMB ATTACK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear M's Kathy Well I don't know if it is naivet=E9 or cunning behavior on your part th= e cheap way that you try to slander Jerry's name. I do not pretend to know any details about Little Richard's attempts to slander Jerry's name and I understand that rumors are a float about the past dealings of some other honey producers that Little Richard might know something about. The best way to divide the beekeepers is to start throwing dirt around when none o= f the players are above reproach. Come on Kathy is naivet=E9 or slick cunningness?=20 COMB only represents AMERICAN HONEY PRODUCERS and is trying to get a ver= y important message to the US beekeepers. I do not know who you are and how many pounds of honey you paid assessment on last year and COMB will best advise you about what is best for US beekeepers. The PACKERs( IMPORTERS) will dictate the voting and they like the idea of making more money available to promote their honey packing operations without regard for US honey producers. Why do the big packers fill their warehouses with foreig= n honey, so that they can beat the US honey producers into selling to cheap just to stay alive. Sitting on honey can be painful when the bills need t= o be paid and your good old boy packers is saying "Naw I don't need your honey Mr. US beekeeper, and by the way what do you want for your honey in your desperate situation" This is a very dangerous situation for all of America. What if US beekeepers just gave up . Think about this issue. Walter Push US Honey COMB =20 > > Join COMB today and volunteer to do some telephone and letter writing > > work > > > > Jerry Stroope Organizer COMB > > office phone number is 281-996-1523 Fax. 281-996-9484 > > e-mail stroope@wt.net > > mail Rt.3,Box 258 Alvin, Texas 77511 > > > > CONTRIBUTIONS AND MEMBER SUPPORT ARE NEEDED NOW > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:40:49 -0400 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Apiaries In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ... >If I'm confusing these bums with a reputable firm, I ask Blue Ridge >Apiaries to accept my apology. > >Conrad Sigona >conrad@ntcnet.com nope. you got it right, Conrad. Huck Babcock's outfit, by any name... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:25:45 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: HELP! abandon colony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > ......................................................... I demand that all > my "students" examine the inside of a colony at least once/month in Nov., > Dec., & Jan. and at least twice each month in Feb. and March. Remember that > next winter! Gee, the weather in Maryland must be awfully nice in winter for you to have such a demand. Unfortunately, for many of us northerners it's just too cold to do anything other than lift the cover a little and listen for signs of life. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:46:21 +0100 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Re: Honey bees v Wild Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To Betty McAdam, Hog Bay Apiary Thanks for your interesting report of the ecological influence of honeybees in Australia. Can you give me more info. on G. Pyke. and why English Nature should be so influenced by him? Where are his "Media releases" published? Sorry I don't know what CSIRO is. Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK You reported that: >Graham Pyke is known to apiarists in Australia as a campaigner against honey >bees on the grounds that they are not native species. He is not employed in >research related to honeybees and apiarist associations challenge his media >releases on the basis of inaccuracies and exaggerations. He is pursuing a >personal campaign against honeybees. > >As far as pollination is concerned I put more faith in a C.S.I.R.O. research >report that eucalyptus species benefitted from pollination by honeybees, >with greater number of seeds and more weight per seed being measurable when >honey bees take the role of pollinator. >Betty McAdam >HOG BAY APIARY >Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island >j.h. & e. mcadamhttp://kigateway.eastend.com.au/hogbay/hogbay1.htm > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: paul s leroy Subject: Help MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am receiving messages from bee-l more than once and it is becoming a burden to reread and delete them. What can I do to get the messages only once? Thanks Paul LeRoy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:13:26 +1200 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT SUMMARY: You can easily join the ASSIST distribution list, set up to enable computer users to get and give help to other computer users... ------------------------------------------------ I've set up a 'self managing' distribution list that is intended to make the keen computer users even more keen and capable! Once you have subscribed to the list you'll receive a text file telling you about the list, how to post to it and how you can use it to ask for assistance, or to help others by answering their questions... Many of us will in the course of the day say something like "I can't remember the shortcut key for indenting a paragraph" or "How would you write an Excel formula to count the number of students on a list" or "I've just received an attachment and I don't know how to read it". By sending a question out 'to the list', you just might be surprised at how many knowledgeable people we have out there on the staff, and you will hopefully get a polite, useful answer in a minimum of time! Try it for awhile - it will probably take a few weeks to get working effectively, and if you don't like it, what have you lost? You can always UNSUBSCRIBE! To SUBSCRIBE? Send an email message addressed to ASSIST and put the word SUBSCRIBE in the Subject: line... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:39:48 +1200 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My sincere apologies to the list for the posting about the ASSIST list that you just recently received! Though "I" sent it, "I" didn't push the buttons - it was in the form of an autoresponder that I have set up here at my office to help my Polytechnic's local users. I was as surprised as you were to see it had responded to the list when I just returned to my desk! Again, my apologies. I'll change the rule that triggers this one to avoid it happening again! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:50:36 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Apiaries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Stay away from Blue Ridge. I waited and waited and still never got anything but lies. Finally had to write the B.B.B. and file a complaint. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:59:34 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Apiaries Havn't delt with Blue Ridge Apiaries since they changed their name from Huck Babcock, but had plenty of trouble with them then. The first time I tried them was bad, the second year was a disaster. Jerry B. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:13:24 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beedaz Subject: OLd Drone has the real poop! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Had to chuckle and grin in re: to the Old Drone and his cleansing flight. IMO, Andy has the real poop and has a way of putting the hammer to the nail. Andy, if you read this, please take my advice and write a book of your experiences and thoughts regarding bees, beekeepers and the human race. I hope to read it some day. Mark Twain has been reincarnated, and his name is Andy N. Carry on, Kirk J. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:24:55 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Apiaries MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would want to be fairly certain about whom I was talking, if I were making the comments below. JRH P.S. I am in several other special-interest groups. This one takes the cake for the level of hostility. Conrad Sigona wrote: > > Does anyone have experience buying package bees or queens from Blue Ridge > > Apiaries? I would be interested in all comments, good or otherwise. Reply > > directly to me at swintosk@timken.com. Thanks! > > The name sounds awfully familiar. If they're the guys in Cayce, South > Carolina, stay away. They never deliver! One time I waited three months > past the scheduled delivery date and still nothing. Everytime I called, > they said it was ready to ship and I'd have it in a few days. Eventually, > I gave up and asked for the money back. When the money didn't get refunded, > I asked the credit card company to credit me. > > If I'm confusing these bums with a reputable firm, I ask Blue Ridge > Apiaries to accept my apology. > > Conrad Sigona > conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:42:38 -0500 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: AHB, COMB & POLITICS! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Aaron and other members of Bee-L; > !!! INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology !!! I'm sorry to have been the one to write the letter that prompted you, Aaron, to shout informed both in the opening line of this post and as a permanent part of the reply to line of the header. > I have not heard any allegations against Jerry Stroope, would hesitate > > to pass on any unsubstantiated allegations and encourage others to do > the same. I guess my problem is that I have heard these allegations, we received a letter sometime within the last three months that outlined the allegations and the charges that were going to be brought by AHP against Jerry Stroope. I wish that I could now locate that letter, so I could substantiate what I said in my other post. Perhaps it is again naivete that I believe when an organization takes a member to court, it would take a vote of (at least) the officers of that organization to do so, and that the officers would not vote to do so unless it was clearly indicated. Not being one to look for more complicated reasons for anything, I simply had not considered that there could possibly be a personal vendetta or conspiracy and that the allegations against Jerry Stroope could be completely false. For this I apologize to Jerry Stroope. > If there are indeed charges against Jerry, this is the land > of innocent until proven guilty. Yes, it is the land where the law says we are innocent until proven guilty. It is also the land where I get to voice my opinion, and my opinion is that if someone is an alleged embezzler or thief, I do not want to send them money--for any reason. Perhaps if I personally knew Jerry Stroope, Richard Adee or some of the other officers personally, I would feel better able to evaluate whether the allegations had merit or not. Since I don't, my simplistic view that the vote of many (and this does assumes a vote) carries more weight than the vote of one. That is all I was saying and I'm sorry again if it offended any of you. > > Besides, is it not a bad idea to further split beekeepers into yet > > another group? > > Great point! Seems to me that the AHP and the ABF have reached > agreement on what to do with the NHB, seems COMB isn't comfortable > with > that agreement, so now we'll have three (four?) factions quibbling > over > the issues and ultimately no one will be served, but we'll waste a lot > > of time, money, effort and bandwidth to accomplish nothing. > Thank you, and I concur that COMB is unlikely to accomplish much. This seems especially likely if Walter Patton continues to spout conspiracy theory and accusations at anyone who questions the organization or its' members. > Problem is, I don't know how EVERYONE will reach an agreement, I have > nothing new to offer regarding the issues, hence I'll stay out of it. > > Requesting that subscribers clearly label further discussion of this > alphabet soup in the Subject header with a key word of 'POLITICS' for > the benefit of those who care to avoid the discussion. Not a problem to include POLITICS in the header and I probably won't participate in this discussion any further. Seems futile (feudal?). Sorry again for any stress I may have caused, Kathy (thinking I may have to work on my cunning behaviour if that was it...) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:12:16 -0600 Reply-To: stroope@wt.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: jerry stroope Organization: Stroope Bee Subject: Re: AHB, ABF, NHB, COMB???? POLITICS! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron- Thanks for the words of wisdom about passing on unsubstantiated rumors. Are you familiar with the term red herring? AHPA complaints against me were nothing more than a red herring to divert members attention from my sound arguments about promoting U.S. honey by the NHB. Those that know me know that I have given very generously for over fifteen years to the AHPA and my cash contributions exceed $50,000. There are extremely few whose contributions to AHPA could surpass mine. How many out there could claim that they have donated over two years full time labor for a national beekeeping group? Only two that I know of, and they both are organizers of COMB! FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE NOT BEEN SUED AND I AM NOT A THIEF. JERRY STROOPE INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology !!! > I have not heard any allegations against Jerry Stroope, would hesitate > to pass on any unsubstantiated allegations and encourage others to do > the same. If there are indeed charges against Jerry, this is the land > of innocent until proven guilty. > > > Besides, is it not a bad idea to further split beekeepers into yet > > another group? > > Great point! Seems to me that the AHP and the ABF have reached > agreement on what to do with the NHB, seems COMB isn't comfortable with > that agreement, so now we'll have three (four?) factions quibbling over > the issues and ultimately no one will be served, but we'll waste a lot > of time, money, effort and bandwidth to accomplish nothing. > > Problem is, I don't know how EVERYONE will reach an agreement, I have > nothing new to offer regarding the issues, hence I'll stay out of it. > > Requesting that subscribers clearly label further discussion of this > alphabet soup in the Subject header with a key word of 'POLITICS' for > the benefit of those who care to avoid the discussion. > > Aaron Morris > BEE-L Owner/Editor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:37:09 -0700 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert E Butcher Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Apiaries thankyou all for the info i'll pass it on . I t will save some headaches. God Bless You Robert&Teresa Butcher bobbees@juno.com On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:50:36 EST Beekeeperc writes: >Stay away from Blue Ridge. I waited and waited and still never got >anything >but lies. Finally had to write the B.B.B. and file a complaint. > >Norm > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:18:38 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: FMGO for varroa - the Origins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Forgive an old man's rambling... I was reading the mail today and realized that so much info passes us by that we miss a lot of it. Info overload is a real problem. Often I find the answer to my own question by searching the email I've received over the last few years ...and believe it or not, (hehehe) my own website. As an Illustration: Regarding the recent exchange about FMGO, I refer you to one of the more obscure older pages on my site (which mostly works: they tell me they installed anew server today): http://www.internode.net/honeybee/oil/default.htm It is a rather poignant statement of Dr. Rodriguez's journey in search for a *safe* treatment for varroa (Did anyone catch the reference to how fluvalinate affects drones in recent posts?) Frankly, I'd forgotten that page exists. I think Barry has more recent pages on the enigmatic Dr. Pedro's work. Right Barry? If you include the logs and all the bee books, we are inundated with fact. I remember the good old days when there were only 5 or 10 bee pages on the web. That was only two years or so (3?) ago? And I remember when there were only a few bee books (written in a now obsolete and passive style). That was a few more years back. Changing the topic: I guess I'm with Andy on science: "Prove it (whatever) doesn't work". That challenge is as valid as "Prove it does work". I've set up a site to get this stuff dealt with. http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BeeScience/ is the URL It's a page for anyone -- scientist or layman -- who wants to tackle any problem with reason and co-operation. Jump in if you dare. Post your wish list and bee prepared to put your money where your mouth is and bee prepared to get dirty. Science can't be done without some pain -- mostly the agony of surrendering comforting ignorance and cherished beliefs in favour of truth and enlightenment and more cash in your jeans. Changing the topic again: What's happening? Are the dreaded vampire mites turned into pussycats this year or have beekeeepers learned to cope? What is going on? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:34:12 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: Re: Help! abandon colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, James C Bach wrote: >Bob, you don't say what the level of Honey Bee Tracheal Mites (HBTM) were >in the two colonies in the fall, or what your observations were in >September and October before the weather became cold. The TM levels, I don't know. With only 2 colonies, I didn't have my bees tested. I assumed (correctly?) TM is virtually endemic (sp?) in our bees. I thought the vegetable oil patties would keep them under control. Up until October both hives were very active bring in pollen and nectar. (We had an unusually mild Fall and Winter this year.) Both colonies packed in a lot of stores. The top deep supers (10 frames) in both hives were completely filled and capped. The bottom supers were likewise, well packed. They looked ready for winter. > You say the Italian >colony was active in early February, does that mean you removed the hive >cover to see how many bees there were? Sorry I wasn't clear on this part. By active, I meant actively foraging. You see, in the beginning of February, we had an unusual warm spell here in New Jersey. Many of the trees and flowers started to bloom (something doesn't usually start happening until around late March. Both colonies were actively bring back some pollen. The weather turned cold again. This was the last time I saw any activity for the few weeks. Towards the end of last week, our weather got real warm (80s F). That's when I became aware the Italian colony had a problem (an understatement). I didn't open the colonies to inspect the frames back in February. The air was too cool by the time I got home from work. A few of the foraging bees didn't get inside soon enough, chilled and died. I didn't want to risk chilling the brood. There is another clue I discovered today when looking through the abandon hive more carefully. Some of the cells had larvae in them. The larva appeared to be only a few days old and beginning to decompose. I thought about AFB and tried the matchstick test. The larva were pretty solid but definitely did *not* show signs of AFB. It appears the queen started to lay eggs and stopped very suddenly. >2. Queen loss. Quite often these days a high percentage of new queens are >lost by fall and in many cases the bees make no effort to supercede them. >If the queen was lost in mid August the bees could have moved over to the Given what I discovered today, it seems the queen may have made it through the winter. >remaining hive, over a period of several weeks. You didn't mention any >robbing of the honey in the empty hive which leads me to presume that it >didn't occur. No there was no robbing going on at all that I ever discovered. >3. This is the most likely cause: bee genetics i.e. bee or colony >behavior. Between 10 and 90 percent of new queens (average 30 percent), >and packages, exhibit what I have been calling aberrant behaviors. These >include a lack of queen retinue, "noisy" colonies, runny bees, a failure to ^^^^^^^ Retinue? The Italian colony never seemed to do as well as the Buckfast even though they had a two week head start. Last Spring was unusually wet and cold here in NJ. The Italian package arrived first. I was able to hive them a few days later. The Buckfast arrived about a little over a week later. It was a few days before the rain stop and it was warm enough to hive them. The Buckfast really took off. The Italian colony just kind of lagging until mid-July, then they started to take off. The Italians always seem much more defensive than the Buckfast even during the nectar flows. I just attributed this to the difference between the strains. >In my own experience over the last 12 years these behaviors have caused 25 >to 30 percent colony losses (exactly as you describe) though I have >purchased queens from at least as many sources. Seems there isn't a lot I can do about this cause then, or is there? >remaining colony built at its maximum rate until then. You may even find >it necessary to replace last years Buckfast queen, judging by local >beekeeper experience here. I'm curious what the problem? How I would know if I need to do this? I am planning to requeen the original Buckfast colony in the Fall. >To all BEE-Lers: It would be quite helpful if you give us the number of >combs of bees (deep or westerns) in hives when you are describing a problem Noted for future reference. Sometimes, especially for we new-bees, it is hard to know what information is important and what isn't. The more experience folks would ignore some bits of information. Being inexperienced, we new-bees might think the same information is very important. Thanks for the lesson. :-) bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@pobox.com second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so far) bob-bee@pobox.com (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: the cure for the Windows 95 virus. -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:37:01 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BRADLEY B THOMPSON Subject: Yugoslavian Carniolan Hi from Wisc, Ok I'm new at this, both at this list service and bee keeping. I have been looking at my Bee Journal and trying to decide on a bee to raise, and I'm getting a bit more confused than normal. My questions are these: 1) What is a ARS Y-C-1 Carniolan Yugoslavian bee? And is it really a mite resistant ? 2) What type of bee should I bee looking for? I appreciate your responses .Brad _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:07:52 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Honey Board? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee People, So who and what is the "Honey Board" exactly. Is it part of the Federal Goverment? What powers do they have and why do they have them and who gave them the power? From what I read not to many are happy with this "Board" Too change the subject. Am I the only one that seems to be missing messages. I will see a reply but the original post is not there. So I get half the info and have to wait for someone to repost quote part of the message so I can try to figure out what is going on. Please answer the "Honey Board" question first. Thank You.... Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 21:18:27 -0800 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Help! abandon colony - response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Billson and all, are you ready for more thoughts? HBTM is indeed indemic, but I'm not satisfied yet that grease patties will keep them below the economic threshold. There are many things going on in a colony at the same time but they have not been identified in a manner which would determine if any correlations exist between them. I think this is true with grease patties and HBTM. I have been using only Terramycin (TM), and grease, patties on my colonies for the last ten years. My HBTM levels have only been about 10 to 15 percent, but the brood patterns have been less than ideal, i.e. spotty. This lack of larval survival could account for keeping the HBTM levels low. This year I'm going to withhold patties (using only TM dust) on some of the colonies and see what will happen to the HBTM levels in the treated and control colonies. The dead pollen collectors on the hive entrance in February may suggest that the colony was collapsing at that time. I would recommend that next time you remove the hive cover, if the hives are not wrapped, and look down between the frame top bars to determine the visible size of the cluster. One can count the number of combs with bees on both sides and what percentage of the length of the frame is covered. The top brood nest can be lifted to see if the cluster hangs down into the bottom brood box, and again estimate the size of the cluster in the bottom. This data can be converted into an estimate of full combs covered with bees. This will not chill any brood but give you a quick (two minute) observation and estimate of the colony size, shape, and cluster density. You saw some larvae in the cells. It is sometimes difficult to determine how long the dead larvae have been in the cells in cold weather. It could have been for a week or a month. Sometimes the queen has been gone for a long time and laying workers have laid the eggs. The difference between the two is that the queen lays in some semblance of an elipse (normally) while laying workers just place eggs in single cells scattered over the comb and their cell caps are slightly to mostly bullet shaped. I am more enclined to think that your problem was HBTM from what you have added to the discussion. A queen retinue, as seen in pictures in ABC-XYZ and The Hive and The Honey Bee and other places, is when the workers form a ring around the queen when she stops on the comb face. They lick her and touch her with their antenae to remove queen pheromone which they then distribute to other bees in the colony. This pheromone cues most of the behaviors of the bees. From what you say I might think that your Italian queen started off slow at egg laying, or she was poor and possibly superceded, which resulted in the delayed start of the colony. This may be indicated by the poor temperament you mention which happens because of genetics and also when colonies are in trouble. It is important that beekeepers pay more attention to bee behaviors. If they encounter the aberrant behaviors they may need to requeen, or take their chances with wintering. I would make some value judgement about how well your current Buckfast does this spring. I usually recommend that all colonies be requeened the second spring. I do this with a top nuc which I combine down by July 4th. That way I usually have a young queen going through the winter. It can also be done with a top nuc which is combined with the bottom colony in 30 days if the lower queen is failing. I agree that it is hard for a beginner to know what is important. I try to educate beginners to think like an investigator, i.e. a) what am I looking at, b) what is happening, c) why is it happening, d) what do I hear in the hive, e) do other colonies behave the same, f) and what are the differences between colonies? Some of the things I assess when working a hive are: a) how many combs of pollen are there, b) how many combs of honey, or feed, c) how many combs of bees, d) what is the ambient temperature, e) how are the bees clustering - elliptical or chimney shaped at 55-60 F., f) do they cluster tightly or loosly, g) does the queen have all her body parts, h) is she wide and long, i) do the bees quickly turn towards her as she passes by, and form a retinue around her when she stops on the comb, j) does she lay eggs in an ellipse with brood of different ages appearing in concentric ellipses, k) is the brood pattern tight with very few skipped cells, l) do the bees remain evenly distributed over the brood rearing area and face of the comb, m) do the bees remain quiet on the comb or do they slowly or rapidly move off the brood rearing area, n) does some level of a queenless roar occur even though the queen is present (60-85 dB), o) do the bees stick their abdomen in the air and scent fan on the combs and throughout the hive. How is that for a list to challenge your psyche? They are the things I think are important to note because they reflect the health of the colony and ultimately its ability to survive. Best wishes, James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:03:46 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: FMGO for varroa - the Origins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > As an Illustration: Regarding the recent exchange about FMGO, I refer you > to one of the more obscure older pages on my site (which mostly > works: they tell me they installed anew server today): > http://www.internode.net/honeybee/oil/default.htm It is a rather poignant > statement of Dr. Rodriguez's journey in search for a *safe* treatment for > varroa (Did anyone catch the reference to how fluvalinate affects drones > in recent posts?) Frankly, I'd forgotten that page exists. I think Barry > has more recent pages on the enigmatic Dr. Pedro's work. Right Barry? Hi Allen and all- Yes, I do keep a page going at: http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/mineraloil.html with Dr. Rodriguez's info on FGMO treatment. Several different file formats are available. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 02:56:34 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Buckwheat honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Dave (and all): You wrote: (snip, snip) > Unfortunately, buckwheat acreages are much reduced from previous years, and >the new hybrid varities do not yield as much nectar as the old. > The old varieties of buckwheat were some of the best honey producing plants >that have ever been prized by beekeepers. A fellow here in PEI grew about 20 acres of buckwheat and got some hives from me for pollination. They didn't seem to be working it very well (and it was in the morning, I knew about that) although there were lots of bumblebees and wasps in it. So I didn't charge him, but he gave me a few hundred pounds of seed and the next year I planted it (about 8 acres). Same thing happened: lots of bumbles and wasps, very few honeybees. The first year I could at least see quite a few combs of buckwheat honey (I love the taste myself), the second year I did not even see much buckwheat honey. I wouldn't mind growing it again if I could get some of the seed of the old varieties you mentioned. Do you happen to know the names of them? Do you know where one might get them? There is also supposed to be two sort of buckwheat families, tartarian and silver-hulled. But I know no more than that. Would like more info before I plant another crop that the bees ignore!! Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:27:54 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Scott Subject: Web address to Montana State University online beehive project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does any one out there have the web address to the M.S.U. online bee hive project. This is the one where they have the beehives hooked up to all kind of sensors and a camera. I lost my address when I had to reload my computer, any help with the address will be appreciated. Dennis Scott ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:40:41 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Web address to Montana State University online beehive project In-Reply-To: <000901bd5cc1$f67be480$3b198fd1@scott> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:27 AM 3/31/98 -0500, you wrote: Hi: This is not an Montana State University Project!!! Our sister institution can't take credit for this project. They may have an entomology program, but they don't work with bees. We do the bee research at THE UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA. Easy to remember, MSU is the home of the Bobcats. We are the home of the Grizzlies! Think about bears and bees. The hive was set up last Friday. The camera went on today. The flight counters will be added in a couple of days (as soon as the bees learn how to go in and out of the window entrance). Temperature probes, etc. will be added over the next few weeks. In the meantime, you can access a video camera mounted in the flight tube, access the indoor and outdoor temperatures and barometric pressure, and view some of our data from last summer from our home page at: http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees DO NOT BOOKMARK THE CAMERA!!!! Currently it is hooked to a machine called Yoda. This will shortly become BEEKEEPER. You can bookmark the main page, but if you bookmark the camera, the link will fail in a few days. I am flying to MD and then to FL on Thursday to drive bees from GA back to Baltimore - so beekeeping will take precedence over the fancy hive. But it is slowly getting there. Cheers Jerry > Does any one out there have the web address to the M.S.U. online bee hive >project. This is the one where they have the beehives hooked up to all kind >of sensors and a camera. I lost my address when I had to reload my computer, >any help with the address will be appreciated. > > Dennis Scott > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk Research Professor The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu 406-243-5648 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:46:43 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: SFleischak Subject: Web add to MSU bee online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees/ Steve ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:59:03 -0400 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Buckwheat honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > > Hi Dave (and all): You wrote: (snip, snip) > > > Unfortunately, buckwheat acreages are much reduced from previous years, > and >the new hybrid varities do not yield as much nectar as the old. > > > The old varieties of buckwheat were some of the best honey producing > plants >that have ever been prized by beekeepers. > > A fellow here in PEI grew about 20 acres of buckwheat and got some hives > from me for pollination. They didn't seem to be working it very well (and > it was in the morning, I knew about that) although there were lots of > bumblebees and wasps in it. So I didn't charge him, but he gave me a few > hundred pounds of seed and the next year I planted it (about 8 acres). Same > thing happened: lots of bumbles and wasps, very few honeybees. The first > year I could at least see quite a few combs of buckwheat honey (I love the > taste myself), the second year I did not even see much buckwheat honey. > > I wouldn't mind growing it again if I could get some of the seed of the old > varieties you mentioned. Do you happen to know the names of them? Do you > know where one might get them? > > There is also supposed to be two sort of buckwheat families, tartarian and > silver-hulled. But I know no more than that. > > Would like more info before I plant another crop that the bees ignore!! > > Regards, Stan Stan: A year or more ago, I saw a report (not on line, as I remember) which was an English translation of a Russian study on nectar producing plants. They referred to several varieties of buckwheat by name, and reported on their study as to nectar and pollen supplies. There was a vast difference in them. I wonder if there is any way of accessing this Russian study? As I remember, there were several European countries also included in the study. I had the same experience as you did about ten years ago. A new field, recently claimed from woodlot, had been planted to buckwheat as cheap cover crop. My hives were less than 1/4 mile away, and got very little nectar. It was a real disappointment, as buckwheat is one of my favorite honeys. Hope this helps. Eunice ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:06:54 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Web add to UM bee online In-Reply-To: <7cae0f6.35211df5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:46 AM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote: Steve and others: Please don't use this address. Our University decided to phase out grizzly. Instead use http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees >http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees/ >Steve > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:08:07 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bees On-Line Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" When we get the on-line beehive fully operational, it will controlled by a computer named BEEKEEPER. It will have its own direct link address at http://beekeeper.dbs.umt.edu. This address is NOT FUNCTIONAL at this time. It will be in the near future. BEEKEEPER will be brought to you in part by funds provided by THE MONTANA STATE BEEKEEPERS ASSOCIATION and by THE UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA. The technology was developed under a series of grants and contracts from a variety of sources. We expect a few bumps in the road, so have patience. Also, remember that we are in Montana, are on Montain Standard Time, and are just coming out of winter. Typically, the bees don't even think about leaving the hive before 10:00 a.m. and may not even fly on any given day. By 3:00 p.m. they are done. If you dial in from Europe or Asia, you will likely get a black screen. At night, the lights are off and the camera won't see anything. We have already gotten complaints about "blackness". Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:31:25 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Buckwheat honey In-Reply-To: <352120D7.69A@pei.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > My hives were less than 1/4 mile away, and got very little nectar. It > was a real disappointment, as buckwheat is one of my favorite honeys. Me too. I put some bees on seed buckwheat a few years back and got nada. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:07:55 -0600 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "A. A. De Villar III" Subject: Sign-off MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5CAE.66B450C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5CAE.66B450C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SIGNOFF BEE-L ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5CAE.66B450C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
SIGNOFF BEE-L
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5CAE.66B450C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:15:23 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Queen mating boxes In-Reply-To: <14084577722483@systronix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am toying with the idea on making up some Kenya top bar mating boxes. Before I plunge into the project I was wondering if someone on the list might know of a supply house, prices, phone and or address of commercial mating nucs. I would tentatively want around 50 and it would be quicker and easier to buy them then spending a couple of days in the garage. Seems I recall seeing some made of cardboard dipped in wax or similar type material as postoffice boxes if I make my own they may be based on a queen rearing project we did in Peace Corps in N Africa, mini boxes with four top bars. Seems to be a bit of interest in local (NE USA) Queen production. I would like to have a few queens on hand over the course of the summer for replacement of failures with long term interest in bees adapted to local conditions. Please E-mail me or post up Thanx MIke Griggs Finger Lakes Beekeepers Association ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:24:53 -0600 Reply-To: rcanaday@ionet.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Canaday Subject: Re: Buckwheat Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those interested in Buckwheat, there is a wealth of info at http://soba.shinshu-u.ac.jp/contents/contents.html and numbers 57 and 62 jumped off the page at me... (honeybees) Wish I had more time to research this before posting... maybe when I'm through w/ IRS (or is it the other way around..) 73's. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stephen Davis Subject: Re: Buckwheat honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I have been doing some research into buck wheat and see that this >honey is supposed to be prised in the US and Canada. > >Is this still the case and is there a market for it. Also how long >dose it yield for and how much can one expecx from a hive > >thanks > >Andrew Just bought a hundred pound of buckwheat seed today which will be sown on a couple of acres for soil improvement. The last time I planted buckwheat was twenty years ago. Don't know what kind it was but the bees did work it from the spring sowing. When it came back from tilling later in the summer, the bees ignored it. Could the problem with nectar secretion be the time of year it blooms? The variety is not listed on the bags I purchased today. Will post the results of what happens with this year's time, money and work. Steve Zone 6 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:03:50 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Help! abandon colony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 30 Mar 98 at 22:34, Bob Billson wrote: > The Italian colony never seemed to do as well as the Buckfast even > though they had a two week head start. Last Spring was unusually > wet and cold here in NJ. The Italian package arrived first. I was > able to hive them a few days later. The Buckfast arrived about a > little over a week later. It was a few days before the rain stop and > it was warm enough to hive them. The Buckfast really took off. The > Italian colony just kind of lagging until mid-July, then they > started to take off. I have followed this thread with interest, and while I agree with the majority of what has been written to date, would like to add my 2 cents worth. First I would like to tell you a little story, having just put the phone down answering similar problems from a customer. Scene setting. New bee keeper, brand new hive, all foundation and a nuc supplied by a local bee keeper. Good year, two deeps full, plus some excess in a shallow. Lots of bees, well medicated, and fed in the fall. No mites. Early season checks, all alive and making noises, cleansing flights. A phone call yesterday from a despondent newbee, hive dead. Long discussions on the phone and finally I picked up a small point. He helped the nuc supplier to split the hive, find the queen (which he was given) which he then put under his arm and took home. Queen failure! Classical case of an old queen not making it through the winter, which I would suggest is the problem with our original poster's hive. As Aaron so frequently says 'buyer beware', they are not all honest or knowledgeable bee raisers. ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:59:25 -0800 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Tooker" Subject: Honey Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well I have been so long among the Lurkers I hope this post gets too the right place. I have a four frame Woodman Little Wonder stainless manual extractor. I am sending this post to see if anyone has info. on a kit to mototize my extractor. All help greatly appreciated. Jeffrey R. Tooker ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:12:02 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc Subject: Re: Honey Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Call Brushy Mountain Bee Farm their phone number is toll free 1-800-BEES-WAX Good Luck Norm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:14:52 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Honey Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! Woodman? Good luck in finding parts for this extractor. I believe they went out of business in the early 70's?..they were located in Chicago. Dadant bought their surplus. I have a Woodman 2-frame manual extractor.. Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey R. Tooker To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:59 PM Subject: Honey Extractor >I have a four frame Woodman Little Wonder stainless manual extractor. >I am sending this post to see if anyone has info. on a kit to mototize >my extractor. > >All help greatly appreciated. > >Jeffrey R. Tooker > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:18:44 -0600 Reply-To: stroope@wt.net Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: jerry stroope Organization: Stroope Bee Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Honey Board?] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------09E586C8C7883C623E2027AB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------09E586C8C7883C623E2027AB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------42FE6C6A7FD2D25F28EBCA5A" --------------42FE6C6A7FD2D25F28EBCA5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Gary- Walter Paten thought that I might like to answer your question on the National Honey Board. Walter could have done an excellent job, but thought that I might use the practice sending e-mail and using bee-l. Please keep in mind that I am a beekeeper that has been politically active for over fifteen years. My answers can be flawed if you wish to pick, but they are usually fairly accurate. The National Honey Board is an agency or board that is authorized by Federal law to collect assessments (1 cent per pound) on honey produced or imported into the U.S. I believe the authorizing legislation was called the National Honey Promotion and Research Act. The American Beekeeping Federation (AFB) had an internal split over 29 years ago over this honey board idea. The spin off group who opposed the formation of the honey board called themselves the American Honey Producers Association (AHPA). The members that walked from the ABF didn't believe that they needed to promote honey when this country could not produce enough honey to supply the demand (a fact still true to this day). Any increase in demand would have only meant an increase in imports. The AHPA kept the honey board idea dead until the early eighties, when certain ABF members asked AHPA leaders what it would take so that AHPA would not oppose the formation of the National Honey Board (NHB). AHPA leaders said that they would not oppose the legislation if the program would be voluntary. ABF agreed and proceeded to promote the new legislation that would create the NHB. One of the main points ABF promoters used was that the program would be voluntary. After the legislation passed and the NHB became a reality, the ABF started a drive to eliminate the refund provision which would make the program mandatory. Those same ABF leaders that went back on their word are still very active today in the ABF. They continue to be the driving force behind the new NHB amendments which will expand the authority of the NHB and increase our assessments. They have proven that they can not be trusted. The original authorizing legislation had to be approved by the beekeeping industry in a referendum. Each five years thereafter another referendum is held.. Each referendum sees fewer supporters, but unfortunately has passed anyway. Possibly the reason the NHB continues to pass is because only the beekeepers that have not been avoiding the assessments are eligible to vote. So in effect, only the supporters are voting. Now in special cases (like a large producer), he will vote against, but he is outnumbered by the hundreds of small producers that don't mind the assessments. The thousand of small producers that do mind paying the assessments have just kept quite and the NHB continues. Incidentally, the NHB has the full authority of the law. Beekeepers not paying the assessments can be fined heavily per offense. I do not have the amount of the fines close by, but they are enough to put most beekeepers in the poor house. Beekeepers should wake up and stop the NHB before it really gets offensive. If the NHB was promoting U.S. honey, possibly it could do some good. But promoting U.S. honey would be counter productive for importers and packers. Packers want honey to stay generic, so that they may switch from cheap imported honey to cheaper imported honey without any penalties from their buyers. If U.S. honey became a preferred honey, then the packers could not switch to cheaper sources so easily. This year the AHPA experienced a split similar to the split the ABF experienced 29 years ago. The new group called the "Coalition of Maverick Beekeepers" (COMB) have strong feelings about the NHB. They believe that the NHB should be run by beekeepers only and not allow non producer participation ( that definitely have different economic interests). COMB believes in the promotion of U.S. honey. Anything less is not acceptable. COMB needs your support. Join the ranks of many beekeepers that would like to see the U.S. beekeeper get a fair break. COMB does not have any set membership rates. Contributions of $20 or more will entitle the new member to our updates on what's happening in bee politics and the satisfaction that you are becoming active and not just sitting and complaining and doing nothing. Act now or live with it! Please be advised that this piece was quickly written. I have intentionally left a few mistakes for the pleasure of the "nit pickers"! Jerry Stroope Co-Chairman of COMB Send contributions to: COMB Route 3, Box 258 Alvin, Texas 77511 telephone 281-992-0802 fax 281-9969484 email stroope@wt.net --------------42FE6C6A7FD2D25F28EBCA5A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Gary-

Walter Paten thought that I might like to answer your question on the National Honey Board.  Walter could have done an excellent job, but thought that I might use the practice sending e-mail and using bee-l.

Please keep in mind that I am a beekeeper that has been politically active for over fifteen years.  My answers can be flawed if you wish to pick, but they are usually  fairly accurate.  The National Honey Board is an agency or board that is authorized by Federal law to collect assessments (1 cent per pound) on honey produced or imported into the U.S.   I believe the authorizing legislation was called the National Honey Promotion and Research Act.

The American Beekeeping Federation (AFB) had an internal split over 29 years ago over this honey board idea.  The spin off group who opposed the formation of the honey board called themselves the American Honey Producers Association (AHPA).  The members that walked from the ABF didn't believe that they needed to promote honey when this country could not produce enough honey to supply the demand (a fact still true to this day).  Any increase in demand would have only meant an increase in imports.

The AHPA kept the honey board idea dead until the early eighties, when certain ABF members asked AHPA leaders what it would take so that AHPA would not oppose the formation of the National Honey Board (NHB).  AHPA leaders said that they would not oppose the legislation if the program would be voluntary.  ABF agreed and proceeded to promote the new legislation that would create the NHB.  One of the main points ABF promoters used was that the program would be voluntary.

After the legislation passed and the NHB became a reality, the ABF started a drive to eliminate the refund provision which would make the program mandatory.  Those same ABF leaders that went back on their word are still very active today in the ABF.  They continue to be the driving force behind the new NHB amendments which will expand the authority of the NHB and increase our assessments.  They have proven that they can not be trusted.

The original authorizing legislation had to be approved by the beekeeping industry in a referendum.  Each five years thereafter another referendum is held..  Each referendum sees fewer supporters, but unfortunately has passed anyway.  Possibly the reason the NHB continues to pass is because only the beekeepers that have not been avoiding the assessments are eligible to vote.  So in effect, only the supporters are voting.  Now in special cases (like a large producer), he will vote against, but he is outnumbered by the hundreds of small producers that don't mind the assessments.  The thousand of small producers that do mind paying the assessments have just kept quite and the NHB continues.

Incidentally, the NHB has the full authority of the law.  Beekeepers not paying the assessments can be fined heavily per offense.  I do not have the amount of the fines close by, but they are enough to put most beekeepers in the poor house.  Beekeepers should wake up and stop the NHB before it really gets offensive.  If the NHB was promoting U.S. honey, possibly it could do some good.  But promoting U.S. honey would be counter productive for importers and packers.  Packers want honey to stay generic, so that they may switch from cheap imported honey to cheaper imported honey without any penalties from their buyers.  If U.S. honey became a preferred honey, then the packers could not switch to cheaper sources so easily.

This year the AHPA experienced a split similar to the split the ABF experienced 29 years ago.  The new group called the "Coalition of Maverick Beekeepers" (COMB) have strong feelings about the NHB.  They believe that the NHB should be run by beekeepers only and not allow non producer participation ( that definitely have different economic interests).  COMB believes in the promotion of U.S. honey.  Anything less is not acceptable.

COMB needs your support.  Join the ranks of many beekeepers that would like to see the U.S. beekeeper get a fair break.  COMB does not have any set membership rates.  Contributions of $20 or more will entitle the new member to our updates on what's happening in bee politics and the satisfaction that you are becoming active and not just sitting and complaining and doing nothing.  Act now or live with it!

Please be advised that this piece was quickly written.  I have intentionally left a few mistakes for the pleasure of the "nit pickers"!

Jerry Stroope
Co-Chairman of COMB

Send contributions to:

COMB
Route 3, Box 258
Alvin, Texas 77511

telephone 281-992-0802
fax            281-9969484
email        stroope@wt.net
 
  --------------42FE6C6A7FD2D25F28EBCA5A-- --------------09E586C8C7883C623E2027AB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by mailz2.wt.net for stroope (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Tue Mar 31 16:51:45 1998) X-From_: hihoney@ilhawaii.net Tue Mar 31 15:18:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lehua.ilhawaii.net (lehua.ilhawaii.net [206.127.242.100]) by mailz2.wt.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11640 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:18:51 -0600 Received: from hihoney (mx1-26.ilhawaii.net [206.127.241.122]) by lehua.ilhawaii.net (8.8.7/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA21163 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:17:13 -1000 (HST) Message-Id: <199803312117.LAA21163@lehua.ilhawaii.net> From: "Walter Patton" To: Subject: Fw: Honey Board? Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:15:40 -1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry I THOUGHT YOU COULD PRACTICE BY ANSWERING THIS PERSON LETTER. IT CAME YESTERDAY AND I WAS NOT SURE IF YOU SAW THIS OR NOT. YOU CAN CLICK FORWARD AND ADRESS TO BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU then highlite and delete my message to you and type in your reply. You can also delete portions of his posting to save space. Good Luck Walter ---------- > From: Gary C. Lewis > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Honey Board? > Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 10:07 PM > > Hello Bee People, > So who and what is the "Honey Board" exactly. Is it part of the > Federal Goverment? What powers do they have and why do they have them > and who gave them the power? From what I read not to many are happy with > this "Board" > Too change the subject. Am I the only one that seems to be missing > messages. I will see a reply but the original post is not there. So I > get half the info and have to wait for someone to repost quote part of > the message so I can try to figure out what is going on. > Please answer the "Honey Board" question first. > > Thank You.... > > Gary C. Lewis > Duke Center, Pa. --------------09E586C8C7883C623E2027AB-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:27:17 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized than me! :-) Subject: Re: Help! abandon colony In-Reply-To: <19980331210505202.AAA78@Default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, David Eyre wrote: > As Aaron so frequently says 'buyer beware', they are not all honest >or knowledgeable bee raisers. The folks I bought the Italians seemed to be fairly well respected as being knowledgeable and honest. I've seen their name mentioned here on the list a once or twice as an example of good suppliers. (This was after I already had ordered my packages.) If they did make a mistake, I doubt it was anything intential. Other then dealing with reputable folks, what else can one do to be sure you really are getting good stock? It's not like buying food at the store where you have an expiration date stamped on the package. Then again, maybe I should look at the underside of my remaining queen for a 'Best if used by 1998' stamp. :-) bob -- Bob Billson, KC2WZ email: kc2wz@pobox.com second year beekeeper, 2 colonies (so far) bob-bee@pobox.com (\ MS-DOS, you can't live with it. You can live without it. /) {|||8- Linux: the cure for the Windows 95 virus. -8|||} (/ \) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:40:46 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Darrells Subject: Re: and Bees in TREES ??? In-Reply-To: <19980328102829.1839.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've heard that tracking wild bees back to their hive can be made easier with flour. Set out a saucer of syrup or honey with a sprinkling of baking flour on the honey and the edge of the saucer. The bees pick up some flour on their bodies making them easier to see, especially in darker areas amongst trees. I've never used the method but can see how the beeline could be more visible. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:05:24 -0800 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: stock selection In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:27 PM 3/31/98 -0500, you wrote: >Other then dealing with reputable folks, what else can one do to be sure >you really are getting good stock? It's not like buying food at the store >where you have an expiration date stamped on the package. Then again, >maybe I should look at the underside of my remaining queen for a 'Best if >used by 1998' stamp. :-) Well actually it is like buying fresh produce at the store in that if you like the looks, taste, and flavor of a certain item produced in the west during the early summer you should not be disappointed that item purchased another season in the same year is different. Because you should know it is not the same as the gowning area and variety may/will be different. One of the critical elements in rearing good queens as far as their longevity or life as a egg laying machine is the weather at the time the queen was mated. So spring queens in some years do not, because of poor weather, mate with the maximum number of drones and just run out of sperm earlier to queens mated latter in the season or with excellent mating weather. Some may think this is a bee breeder problem but it is not because most buyers want the queens then and must have them and not months latter when they also are available and be better quality but would have little value for making spring increase, so the buyer assumes the risk getting queens in the spring and that they are different in their life expectancy from year to year depending on the weather. So you should keep an eye on the general weather not only in your area but the queen breeders area if you want to know what to expect from those queens or wait to buy your queens later when you can be sure they will be fully mated. As far as buying over wintered queens from a bee breeder, this is one way to get a "tested" queen mated in the fall that will be bigger in size and do just as well, and live just as long in most areas as a spring queen. I personally would prefer all over wintered queens if they were available most today are used to make up divides that bee breeders make up for other people after they finish making up their queen nucs. Here is Los Banos, California all the queen nucs are out and many are ready to catch the first round of queens, yet the making of divides has been going strong from several weeks because these bee breeders buy or more times then not they insist the buyer buy his queens and they are using queens reared in Texas, Hawaii, and some over wintered queens from Northern California. The locally reared cells are being used by many beekeepers to make their own nucs and all the locally reared new queens will be used as fast as they come off by beekeepers making divides. First year queens normally do not swarm, but if you are fortunate enough to live in an area of extended spring build up such as many have in the far north even 1st year queens in two pound packages will build into a unit that will require swarm control before the flow or they will swarm. The actual live of a queen is short under commercial conditions in California and it is common to find hives trying to replace the young spring queen by late summer. The darker races of bees or the queens of the darker races do live longer then the yellow Italians. This is because there is still a difference in the race's of bees and the Italian race will rear brood under conditions that the darker race's will not so the Italian queens run out of sperm first. No science in all this just lots of hard work and experience. One fun thing is to take advantage of the different lines of bees that are still out there. Have light colored bees for early divides or increase because the build up early and have lots of brood but use black or dark queens as the replacement queens. I can think of a hundred mind boggling ways to do all this, but it is very importaint that each beekeeper have some plan for his or her own area and operation and try different stock to build his own gene pool and find the best for his own operation one hive or ten thousand. ttul, the OLd Drone for local weather conditions in California bee & queen areas http://209.76.50.54 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:14:52 -0500 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BILL HUGHES JR Subject: Re; Blue Ridge Api. Don't walk but run away from this bunch. Bill Hughes ____ Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, Tennessee USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:04:17 -0800 Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Spraying Bee attractants to Avocado Orchard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" THe avocado orchards are in full bloom here in S. Calif. A local avocado orchard grower is going to spray a bee phermone on his blossoming avocado orchard to attract more bees to the blossoms. Has anyone heard of this proceedure before? Would this be a viable project for other plant species? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:13:14 EST Reply-To: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Spraying Bee attractants to Avocado Orchard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-31 22:57:59 EST, paulc@silcom.com (Paul Cronshaw, D.C.) writes: << A local avocado orchard grower is going to spray a bee phermone on his blossoming avocado orchard to attract more bees to the blossoms. Has anyone heard of this proceedure before? Would this be a viable project for other plant species? >> Yes it is being done for many crops, with quite variable results. It may help in some cases, such as plentiful bees, but marginal weather. But there is no substitute for good strong hives of bees. And it is cheaper to put a hive into an acre of orchard than to spray a pheromone on that acre. If there aren't bees around, you can't attract them. (We had a peach grower, this past week, spray corn syrup on his peach trees to try to stimulate bees. Personally, I think it was more effective applied at the hives.) You might try a search of the APIS newsletter archives. I recall it being discussed there. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm