From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:13:30 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26524 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09776 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171613.MAA09776@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:21 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9812B" To: adamf@TITAN.METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 133437 Lines: 2989 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:21:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: beemoflage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Slade wrote: > Could it be, however, that the new bee > suit doesn't smell of old stings and thus doesn't attract defending bees? > Chris Slade I normally rinse and spin my suit to rid of these alarm scents, etc. But to be more precise in these matters, does anyone know the amount and evaporation rate of the volitile oils present in a bee sting? Extremely mild winter so far this year. Colony populations are way too high and the present drought leave the bees gathering no nectar, but lots of dandelion(?) pollen. I will have to feed sugar this weekend. Temp this week high has been 78F. - 82F. This weekend we expect 50-60F. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, Virgina, USA On your map it's theSouth bank of the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, Central East Coast, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:41:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Organization: Hessische Landesanstalt fuer Tierzucht Subject: Re: left/right handed sugars and fondant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, > When I look at the sugars making up an "average" honey (Hive and the > Honeybee) I see that one of the major sugars is dextrose (which is > d-glucose) or right handed glucose in the way it will reflect > polarized light as I understand it. Not quite. The indicator D in D-glucose refers just to the sterical architecture of the molecule (to be exact: just to one of several sterical centres) and has 'nothing' to do with the direction polarized light is turned. In this particular case, you are right. D-glucose is turned polarized light to the right, therefore the usual writing is D-(+)-glucose, with the (+) indicating the direction to the right. I used the quotaton marks with 'nothing' because L-glucose necessarily turns the light the other way round, which is (-). There are substances, like e.g. lactid acid, which are either D-(-) or L-(+) and others that are either D-(+) or L-(-). The name invertase refers to the fact that this enzyme splits sucrose (D-(+)-Saccharose) into b-D-(-)-fructose and a-D-(+)-glucose. As D-fructose turns polarized light more to the left than D-glucose does turn it to the right, the direction of the polarize light is inverted with regard to a solution of sucrose. Best wishes, Michael -- Michael Haberl Hessische Landesanstalt fuer Tierzucht, Abt. Bienenzucht Erlenstr. 9, 35274 Kirchhain, Germany Tel: ++49-6422-9406-12 Fax: ++49-6422-9406-33 haberl@mailer.uni-marburg.de ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:49:33 -0800 Reply-To: ttownsen@telusplanet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: 1.Hive Insulation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > > On 5 Dec 98, at 18:27, Christopher Slade wrote: > > > 1. Insulation works both ways. Do those who add insulation to their hives > > in winter cover the sunny side as well as the rest? I have erected windbreaks of plastic greenhouse shading netting but am undecided whether to do more. Unless > > convincingly advised otherwise I shall probably drape plastic sacks over > > the N.E. and W sides and leave the S side with the entrance exposed to the > > midday sun. Chris: Depending on where you are and how cold it gets, you should be OK with the above protection. Let's face it it's better than nothing. > > But one point from the above posting, stay away from plastic! It > doesn't breath and condensation will form on the inside, freeze and > melt just at the wrong time. David: You might want to clarify the above statement,as pertaining to Eastern Canada, as out here in Western Canada 90% of all the hives wintered outdoors are wrapped with one form of plastic or another, ( either sheet, woven or tube), with no ill effects. We all tried tar paper out here but it didn't work as well as the plastic > We use roofing felt or tar paper, one wrap is enough to keep > out the wet, and on sunny days it will warm the hive interior. > > ***************************************** > The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Tim Townsend ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:52:04 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Putty collection... In-Reply-To: <199812081213.BAA07398@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A recent email to me described the problems of bees collecting putty from around the windows of a recreational vehicle. Even covering the material with a silicon layer hasn't deterred the bees. Can anyone recommend any reasonably effective bee repellent that might reduce the damage? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Bibliography: Weighing Beehives? Email to: weighing@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:47:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Formic, Lactic and Oxalic Acid for Fighting Varroa Comments: To: Chris Leo Chatfield MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Chris Leo Chatfield An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Datum: Dienstag, 8. Dezember 1998 07:54 Betreff: Oxylic Acid and Varroa Hi Mr.. Chatfield, there are several organic acids used to kill varroa mites in the hive. A lot of experiences were made about this theme. Let me tell you s.th. more about the advantages and disadvantages of these methods of fighting the pest from my personal point of view. Formic acid - it is very difficult to control the evaporation of this substance inside the hive. (Evaporation depends mainly on the temperature during medicamentation) There are a lot of different constructions (apparatus) to control the evaporation. If evaporation is too low there will be no usage, if evaporation is too high there will be a lot of bee killing. Only some of the evaporators can be recommended nowadays. I have lost some good queens 3 years ago by too much evaporation of formic acid inside the hive. It was very painful for me. Often brood is damaged. But the varroa mite can also be killed inside of brood chambers. Formic acid is an undangerous substance if little amounts of formic acid get into the honey. The method is practicable for the experienced beekeeper. Oxalic acid - it is used as a solution together with sugar in water and dropped on the bees in the hive. You have to be sure that there are no brood combs (in autumn) because the varroa cannot be killed in the brood combs. The second way to use the oxalic acid is by spraying a solution of this substance on the bees at the combs. The results are very good for the second way of application but the beekeeper has to protect himself with a gas mask, gloves etc.. Because of the amount of work it is a practical method only for the beekeeper with a few hives. The first method is very easy but the scientists tell us nowadays that there is some killing of bees, which fly out of the hive and don't come back. The hives can become very weak by this way of therapy. The oxalic acid can be dangerous for man if incorporated into of the human body. Personally I have never used this method. Lactic acid - it has to be sprayed on the bees just like the oxalic acid solution. I have used it once in my life for fighting varroa in splits. The substance is harmless and also used as an additive in food production (conservation). The disadvantage is that spraying on every comb with bees on it needs a lot of time. It's also a method just for the hobby beekeeper. Sincerely Reimund J. Schuberth ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 500 North, 110 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PS: Although I'm in a hurry and my English becomes worse, I hope I could explain the advantages and disadvantages of the different methods of usage. All was in a short. Details if necessary. >Hi, > >Does anyone on the list know of the use of oxylic acid in the treatment >of veroa, I believe someone in Italy is doing research into this. > >Is there a useful url for this topic? > >Tim JF Cuss UK > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:35:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Steven A. Creasy" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am trying to find new ways to use by beekeeping by-products. If anyone has any recipes for Hand Creme or lotion using beeswax and/or honey, please send them to me personally at screasy@esper.com in addition to posting to the list if you want. I am on Best of Bee and may not get them if they only go to the list! Thanks! Steve Creasy- (\ Maryville, Tennessee USA {|||8- Proverbs 24:13, 25:16 (/ screasy@juno.com Air Traffic Controller; Beekeeper ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:44:24 -0800 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Gloves and Bayvarol Ted Fischer writes: >The only time I ever tried inserting Apistan >with gloves was the first time, or rather at the beginning of the first time. >I found it quite impossible to separate the strips or fold the Apistan tabs >with gloves. Latex examination gloves work very well. You have a fine tactile sense, and they are disposible afterward. Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:53:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Vickie's newbee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are certainly asking the right questions, Vickie. I will try to help you by providing some observations that you can make yourself as well as answering some of your questions. - To determine if you have "enough" honey for the winter, go around to the back of your hive. Loosen the top box from the bottom with your hive tool and try to tip the top box up. If it is "real heavy", you have enough honey. If it is easy to tip, you don't have enough. I don't know just where Green Harbor is, but if it on the coast you only need 40 or so pounds to get through the winter. 40 pounds of honey and 20 pounds of hive equipment provides a slightly strenuous lift or tip. If the box is reasonably full of honey it weighs around 80 pounds, which will appear "real heavy" when you try to tip it. Only a little honey will weigh 30-40 pounds, which will feel real light. - Seeing the bees in the center is normal, and having frames beside them full of honey is a real good sign. I would not tell you to expect the bees to be in the bottom box, although if they were there it would not be unusual. Your bottom box "might" have very little honey in it, and that is not necessarily bad. As the end frames in your top box are almost certainly full of honey, and the bees are in the center with sealed honey on both sides, it seems as if they have plenty of food for the winter. - I suggest you just leave the bees alone and not try to move honey frames into the center. The bees will move as they need the honey. - How many bees will fly on a warm day in mid-winter is a function of the queen and their food. I have had years where I was convinced a hive was dead because there was no flight when other hives were real busy, and have found the hives with no flight to be real strong when spring finally came. If you can see a good size cluster I would not worry about how many bees are flying on warm days. - Do not hesitate to look at a cluster for a few seconds two to three times in a winter. Do not keep the cover off longer than a few seconds, and limit yourself to 2-3 peeks. - Instead of asking "why not heat hives", I suggest you ask "what is the benefit of heating hives"? As far as I have ever read or experienced, cold, by itself, does not damage honeybees. Better put, honeybees can cope well with cold. However, honeybees cannot cope with (1) excessive moisture or (2) lack of food. For example, in the days before mites we would occasionally find spring hives full of dead bees, but with significant stores of honey. What had happened was that severe cold had kept the bees in their cluster, where they had consumed all their food, so they starved to death. Food was just inches away, but they could not break their cluster to get to it so they starved. If you warmed a hive with a light bulb you would encourage the bees to eat more, and their metabolism would cause moisture which would have to be dispersed. Thus, they could run out of food and starve, or the moisture might not disperse, encouraging growth of mold and bacteria which might harm the bees. In fact, experiments involving wintering bees inside in Canada have demonstrated that the major difficulty in doing so is keeping the inside of the structure sufficiently cold! Failure to do so kills the bees! - From what I have read on Bee-L, "plain old vegetable oil" works just fine, in place of FGMO. However, it is much more expensive. A "medium path" is to melt Crisco. At a temperature of 150 degrees, a five pound can of Crisco in an oven will readily liquefy. Crisco is less expensive than vegetable oil and easier to find (in small quantities) than FGMO and works just fine against tracheal mites. Hope this helps, and keep attending those bee club meeting! Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:06:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medders Subject: Beekeeping Chat Reminder Hi Everyone, I just wanted to drop quick a note to invite you to join me and the gang in the beekeeping chat room tonight. Last week we discussed the bizarre weather patterns and how its effecting the bees. If you missed it chat starts tonight at 9:30pm est. and last for an hour or so. We love to have you join us. Thanks and take care. Chat Room: http://beekeeping.miningco.com/mpchat.htm Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:15:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Death of Billy Mellon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All The Irish beekeeping world was saddened to learn of the death of Billy Mellon on Monday night last. Billy was an extremely popular man who gave of his best to all of his pursuits especially to beekeeping. Nothing was too much trouble for Billy - you could ring him up anytime if you had a problem, and if he could not help on the telephone he would call to you. Many is the time he got a call from this beekeeper. Many Irish beekeepers including myself, owe their introduction to beekeeping to Billy. For many years he was the instructor at the Beginners' Beekeeping Course held each year in Dublin. To see Billy handle bees was to see a master at work. He will be greatly missed. Billy lived at the following address: 28 Trees Road Blackrock Co Dublin Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:27:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: left/right handed sugars and fondant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Michael and All: Thankyou for your explanation of polarization and sugars. I did not immediately understand it, but it led me to consult two different organic chemistry books where the diagrams made it all clear. I also learned the interesting story of Emil Fischer, your countryman who won the 1902 Nobel Prize for his work on sugars. What was confusing me was the duplication of names. Dextrose IS glucose, and levulose IS fructose. And these are by far the main constituents of honey, and also the products of inversion of sucrose (as you pointed out so well): >The name invertase refers to the fact that this enzyme splits >sucrose (D-(+)-Saccharose) into b-D-(-)-fructose and a-D-(+)-glucose. >As D-fructose turns polarized light more to the left than D-glucose does >turn it to the right, the direction of the polarize light is inverted >with regard to a solution of sucrose. The inversion can also be done by acid hydrolysis, and I suppose that is what people have warned about on the list (as being unsuitable for beefeed). I spent several hours looking at sites related to glucose, fondants, invert sugar, invertase...... and I reread the "syrup" factsheet by Murray Reid (from Nick Wallingford's autoresponder) because it alludes to the energy requirements of inverting sucrose syrup by the bees. But it does not really give good figures in that regard. I am left with several questions: How much energy does the inversion process "cost" the bees? (Without some idea of this it is difficult to figure whether other sugars are worth the added expense). Which is better beefeed, glucose or fructose or invertsugar (a 50% mix)? What companies in North America produce invert sugar by enzymatic process? (I found suppliers in India and UK, but not in North America.) Have a nice day, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:27:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Re- old boxes and frames Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ines, in Worcester County, Massachusetts, USA we use a gamma sterilization facility called ISOMEDIX to irradiate AFB contaminated hives with about 2 megarads of cobalt-60 gamma rays. The local association has been doing this for years, and it seems to work in cleaning up AFB comb. The cost is about 6-7$ US for a box big enough for a deep or two shalllows, if we pool our boxes. We of course kill the infected bees, then run the boxes, frame, and comb through the gamma cell. USDA has studied the method and has found that it works. Clothing and tools can be sterilized too. The facility near me normally sterilizes milk jugs, band-aids, medical one-use products, hypodermics and the like. They are willing to help us out on a yearly basis. We can irradiate capped honey, but we do not sell it, it is used for feed. Hope this helps, though not everyone has access to a big ccobalt cell! From: Ines Kinchen Brian and I bought some old bee boxes and frames from a retiring beekeeper. Some of them contained foul brood. The man told us that we would just have to clean them out and scroch them with a propane torch. We now read a reference telling us to burn frames (destroy them) which contained foul brood. What do you think/know? Is one able to reuse/disinfect old boxes and frames or should we get rid of them? If we have to get rid of the frames, can we still use the old boxes? We would appreciate all advice Thank you, INES ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:58:36 +0200 Reply-To: Khaleel Amer Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Khalil Amero Subject: re : bee & squash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear netter, I notice the following phenomenon, for the fourth season ( allways in December & Jan. ) the bee worker has a greasy appearance, I dont recognize this appearance, it might be due to the pollen of squash or traces of pesticide used. does any one notice this phenomenon especially with squash. is it harmful to bee. ------------- Khalil Amro k.a.mer@firstnet.com.jo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:43:46 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Organization: banjobee books Subject: Re: request for manuka honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try my friend Bruce Stevenson Kiwi Bee Kemp Road Kiri Kiri Bay of Islands New Zealand Also do a net search for Manuka, you'll find some references. James P Parkman wrote: > > I have had a request from a person here in eastern Tennessee USA for > manuka honey. He is interested in its proposed medicinal properties. Does > anyone on the list know of a source for manuka honey? > Regards, > Pat Parkman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:43:31 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beenetuk1 Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Beenet server required in Ireland Hello Bee-L and and Irish Beekeepers, Beenet is a Fidonet beekeeping network in Europe. We would like to have a Host Server in Ireland. This will involve leaving your computer on for other modems/beekeepers to call and collect conferences messages devoted to beekeeping. A existing Fidonet Bulletin Board easily handle this network. If interested contact me on beeman@zbee.com STEVEN TURNER G6LPF Beekeeper/gardener Sysop of ZBeeNet BBS. http://www.beeman.dircon.co.uk/ Email: beeman@zbee.com .. Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:57:36 +0200 Reply-To: Khaleel Amer Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Khalil Amero Subject: Re: alternative product to control AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear bee-netter, could any body help if their as other antibiotic ( other than terramycine, tetracycline) used to control AFB. THANKS IN ADVANCE Khalil Amro k.a.mer@firstnet.com.jo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:39:24 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Treating old boxes In-Reply-To: <19981207.055750.8095.2.tomasmozer@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tomas Mozer wrote:- > the oct.1998 issue of american bee journal (v.138,#10,p.738-742) has > articles on the > disinfection of afb-contaminated woodenware and testing efficiency of > disinfecting > with hot paraffin, by m.del hoyo et al. in argentina, corroborating > horacio's posting. As luck would have it my copy of the October ABJ turned up today by snail= mail. The article was very interesting. I could see nothing in the article to = support Horacio's observation that the paraffin treatment also helped pre= serve the timber. As I posted previously, it depends on the natural dura= bility of the timber being used and I notice in the article in the ABJ = that one of the timbers they were using was Eucalyptus. This could have = a high natural durability depending on the species. Here in Australia = if radiata pine or plantation hoop pine are used the wax treatment will = not preserve these timber. Radiata pine or plantation hoop pine will rot= within a few years even though it is wax treated if the hives are locate= d in high risk (decay) area. I asked the original question on the temperature relationship as work tha= t I have been involved in showed that at 100 degrees centigrade you neede= d 5 hours to kill spores of AFB with dry heat and 3 hours at 130 degrees.= If the heat is "wet" then the time is dramatically reduced. We used a powder coating kiln at 130 degrees for 4 hours to heat seeded = boxes but we still had about 30% of our sites showing viable spores. So = dry heat in a large commercial situation has not given the desired result= s. In our trials we used a concentration of 300 million spores per sample = which may have been higher than those in the article. The one interesting point of the article was the higher number of viable = spores after the longer incubation time. We also found this. It raises = the point, that whilst they are viable, are these spores virulent? The article is very interesting becuase I had heard anecdotal stories fro= m New Zealand that bees were removing the wax treatment from the boxes, = that had been waxed dipped, exposing the AFB spores underneath and the = hive was being re-infected. Looking at the Argentinian work it could be = the NZ case that they did not dip for long enough or at a higher enough = temperature. All in all it is very interesting work. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:48:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: re : bee & squash Comments: To: k.a.mer@firstnet.com.jo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/9/98 6:46:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, k.a.mer@firstnet.com.jo writes: > the bee worker has a greasy appearance Here in CT USA I notice that older bees which have worn away their fuzzyness have a greasy appearance. Especially evident in a failing hive where young bees are not being produced. I will pay closer attention when summer returns to bees working squash although mine is usually pollinated by a smaller wild bee. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:29:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Resistant mites speed of conquest (Dr. Max Watkins) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by max.watkins@VITA.DEMON.CO.UK to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of previously posted material. ------------------ Original message (ID=0F7F18) (110 lines) ------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:52:28 +0000 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Resistant mites speed of conquest Tom Barrett asked: > ... about the possible rate of spread of Apistan/Bayvarol resistant > mites ... assuming that resistance is achieved by the mites' > exposure over time, to control chemicals. If this be the case, then > ... the spread of the resistant mites will be very rapid indeed. You may be correct but experience with the spread of resistance in Europe does not follow this pattern. Here a resistant strain has been shown to have evolved in one region and has spread through migration, not by spontaneous evolution, from southern Italy following massive misuse of pyrethroids in that region. The case may be different in the States but my initial feeling is that a resistant pool is spreading rather than spot resistance evolution happening. The US scientists may be able to tell us more. > ... England (may) be colonised by resistant mites in far less than 6 > years from the date of the first confirmed outbreak ... migratory > beekeeping will not be a major factor, if indeed it be a factor at > all). Who knows? Hasn't so far, except by migration. > >I suppose that the advent of a chemical which operates differently to >Apistan and Bayvarol, and to which initially at any rate, the mites will not >have resistance, will in the short term improve matters. > Yep. Best regards, Max -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:35:19 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Gabon tapes (by Dr. Max Watkins) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by max.watkins@VITA.DEMON.CO.UK to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of previously posted material. ------------------ Original message (ID=4D2A76) (76 lines) -------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:29:41 +0000 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Gabon tapes Rimantas Zujus queried: > about "Gabon tapes". Can you tell me, what kind of chemical > against Varroa is it? Gabon tapes contain acrinathrin which is very closely related to tau- fluvalinate, the active ingredient in Apistan/Mavrik/Klartan and to flumethrin, the active ingredient in Bayvarol and Bayticol. It is proven that there is a cross-resistance in varroa to all three substances. This means that if there are pyrethoid resistant mites, Gabon will be no more effective than Apistan or Bayvarol. Regards, Max -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:47:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Apistan & Bayvarol (Dr. Max Watkins) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by max.watkins@VITA.DEMON.CO.UK to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of previously posted material. ------------------ Original message (ID=130962) (129 lines) ------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:43:03 +0000 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan & Bayvarol Well, you know any treatment which is used to the extent that pyrethroids have been used will suffer the same consequence - of the apparition of resistant strains at some point. That doesn't mean it's the end of using pyrethroids. The reason they have been used (in strip form or home-made concoctions) is that they have controlled varroa mites and saved millions of honeybee colonies from otherwise certain death over the past 10-12 years. Apistan [and later, Bayvarol] was developed because of the demand from beekeepers and beekeepeing institutes. Although by no means perfect, Apistan is a useful tool in protecting bee health. However, control programmes should involve more than one control agent where at all possible. This is not so simple where honeybees are concerned as most chemicals (and this includes naturally produced substances) can kill bees as well as varroa, or/and they have some undisirable effect such as being toxic to humans or leaving residues in honey etc. Biomechanical control methods may be useful but are not efficient on their own. Some form of hive treatment will always be necessary if varroa levels are to be kept down. Vita (Europe) Limited has considerable experience of R&D in this field and we are developing several new agents for protecting honeybee health. One such product, named Apiguard, is a slow-release essential oils gel, used for the control of varroa and other hive pests. This is not another Apistan. It would be extremely difficult to achieve those consistant 98-100% control levels. However, at an average of around 90% varroa control (often much higher, sometimes a little lower), this and/or other agents in rotation with proven medicines such as Apistan can help to sustain a useful toolbox for beekeeping. Resistance to one class of control agents does not necessarily spell the end to those agents nor to beekeeping; the way we do things just has to evolve. Best Regards, Max In message <912771066.1116321.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >Blane White wrote: > >>If the mites are resistant to one yes they are resistant to the other >>as well. This was clearly seen in the data obtained when fluvalinate >>resistant varroa were found in South Dakota USA last fall.>In that >>case neither apistan nor bayvoral provided any significant control of >>the varroa mites in those colonies. So the only benefit to have both >>available is you get to pick which one you want to use. You need to >>have another material with a different chemistry available to rotate >>with for resistance management. > True > In my opinion the above post must represent the tolling of the bell > for the use of both Apistan and Bayvarol for the control of varroa. > Again in my opinion, the use of chemicals has played us false. I > suppose that the big chemical companies will just pocket the dollars > generated by Apistan and Bayvarol, thank you all very much, and let > the R&D boys and girls get on with replacing these two products with > some other so called treatment for some other problem. What's a few > billion bees, when the P&L accounts and the shareholders' interests > must be protected?. Maybe now is the time to re visit the FGMO option > with significant research dollars while we still have bees to be > attacked by varroa. I don't know about "the P&L accounts and shareholders interests.." - Vita (Europe) Limited is a small company specialising in honeybee health. We are not a multinational giant but we do operate worldwide - through distributors. There is no hidden agenda here, we are dedicated to the development, manufacturing and marketing of honeybee medicines and we (generally!) receive great support from beekeepers for the work we are trying to do - to provide the industry with the tools it so badly needs. Best regards, Max -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:55:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Apistan and Bayvoral (by Dr. Max Watkins) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by max.watkins@VITA.DEMON.CO.UK to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of previously posted material. ------------------ Original message (ID=7D51C8) (84 lines) -------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:50:54 +0000 To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan and Bayvoral Harry Goudie wrote: > I would be interested to know if a difference exists between the > German instructions for Apistan and the English version Apistan is not sold directly in Germany. As you say, every country has its idiosynchracies and own label requirements. In the UK and in other countries where it is registered (over 40 countries) the Apistan label states that the withdrawal period is zero and it can be used at any time of the year, even during a honeyflow. The reason for this difference between Apistan and Bayvarol is that Apistan has an EU ruling for a Maximum Residue Limit in honeybees, as Annex II, NO MRL NECESSARY whereas Bayvarol only has an MRL for sheep, [not for honeybees] (the same active ingredient is used in the Bayer sheep-dip, Bayticol). Work that one out. Regards, Max -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:47:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Timing of varroa Comments: To: Ted Fischer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII RE: Winter/Late Spring applications thread >Seasons Greetings, Timing of Varroa "control" is tricky because it should >consider first the population level of Varroa. Treating when broodless is >great because Varroa that are present should be exposed to chemicals and >most be killed, however, will your colony make it to this time without >dying and/or be significantly weakened? I feel we should be overwintering >with young, healthy bees, that are not "shot full of holes" by mites >already. I've observed strong "appearing" colonies to crash within a week >when numerous Varroa were present. In cold regions you may not want to >open a colony in the winter months to treat. On "warmer" winter days you >could put in strips without taking out frames, assuming your ladies >haven't propolized the gaps. > >just a thought, grins, John > >John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall >Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee >jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:45:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Apistan and Bayvoral (by Dr. Max Watkins) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all >In the UK and in other countries where it is registered (over 40 >countries) the Apistan label states that the withdrawal period is zero >and it can be used at any time of the year, even during a honeyflow. If you mean by the "withdrawal period" that the time the strips should be in the hive, our Apistan labels say 42 days. Also, ours say that honey supers should be off when the strips are in. Why the difference? Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:22:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Formic, Lactic and Oxalic Acid for Fighting Varroa Comments: To: Conrad Sigona MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Conrad Sigona An: Dr. Reimund Schuberth Datum: Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 1998 11:02 Betreff: Re: Formic, Lactic and Oxalic Acid for Fighting Varroa >> Lactic acid - it has to be sprayed on the bees just like the oxalic acid > >What are the proportions in the spray? You can use the cheap commercial form of lactic acid (mixture of D- and L-Form). Every comb has to be taken out of the hive and has to be sprayed each side with 5 ml of lactic acid (15% solution in water). Varroa only on the bees are killed (efficiency over 90 %) but not the varroa inside brood cells. Therefore you will have to repeat this spraying once or twice in order to kill some of the later hatching mites, too. Best will be if this work is done when there is only a small amount of brood in the hive (autumn in Europe). Temperature when spraying the combs should be over 5 0C Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 500 North, 110 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:10:34 +1300 Reply-To: happy.valley.honey@xtra.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dot Rawnsley Organization: Happy Valley Honey Subject: request for Manuka Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit re Pat's request for Manuka Honey The address given by Pat Parkman has an Ausi. twist. The Address for Bruce Stevenson is KERIKERI not Kirikiri. There are many sources of Manuka Honey in N.Z., even ourselves. All Manuka Honey has medicinal qualities, but some has quite extraordinary effectiveness against bacteria, especially those causing stomach problems. The price is reflected in the level of anti-bacterial quality. Dot Rawnsley ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:18:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOBBY T SMITH Subject: Brood Chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many Beekeepers if Florida are using short supers as brood chambers. They have told be this has eliminated the problem of swarming, without a reduction in honey production. The down side is they require feeding when there is no flow. I will be trying this in the spring with a couple of colonies. If anyone has any info, pro or con, on the issue please let be know. Thanks Bob. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:31:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Ryan-questions from beginning beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan, it is very, very difficult to provide worthwhile assistance to you at your present level and without considerably more information concerning your climate. You reported you just purchased two hives, and plan on purchasing two more. You also reported that your bees are "hanging out", just now. The first item implies that you have contact with a beekeeper, but perhaps not. If you do, you might ask him or her for the name of a local beekeeping club. Members would be in a position to provide information based exactly on your climate and local flora. Alternatively, if you are in the US, let me know the state and a nearby city and I should be able to give you a beekeeping club in the area. If you are not in the US, and cannot find a club through the source where you purchased your hives, contact any state agricultural office for assistance. Based on the fact that your bees are "hanging out" just now, you must be in a mild to warm climate. In the Northern Hemisphere there is little in bloom until January or February, and your bees might be just waiting for a bloom. The fact that they are outside the hive might imply that there is too much honey stored, making it likely that the queen does not have enough room for brood, meaning the hives might swarm in the spring. Note the number of "mights" in the last sentences (3), this is because I have no idea where you are or your local conditions...something a local beekeeper would be immediately familiar with. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:36:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Short Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bobby says "Many Beekeepers if Florida are using short supers as brood chambers. They have told be this has eliminated the problem of swarming" What is a "short super"? 4 3/4", 5 1/2", 6 3/4", something else? What is the mechanism that they say is at work whereby the "short super" reduces or eliminates swarming? Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:38:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Brood Chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have been using a mixture of deep and medium boxes for brood chambers and am having good luck. My next configuration will be to use three medium boxes for brood with mediums added for honey storage. With three boxes I should be able to reduce swarming by moving boxes around and by making splits. The smaller boxes should allow me to pull entire boxes off to make a split without taking too much from the original colony. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:07:35 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Bee repellant Comments: To: nickw@BEEKEEPING.CO.NZ Hi All/Nick Nick - you mentioned a problem with bees nibbling a recreational vehicles putty - and that you needed a repellant. I would recomment anything with diethytoluamide. I have noticed that this insect repellant has a very interesting effect. It does not seem to stop bees landing on things - they land and fly and land and fly in an agitated way, but when they get back to the hive they will be stung to death. We have products here, called Tabbard, Peaceful Sleep and such that contain it. Hope that helps. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey The Universe is not here right now, if you would like to leave a message, leave your name and number after the long silence and it will get back to you as soon as possible. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:31:39 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Olda Vancata Subject: Re: Gabon tapes (by Dr. Max Watkins) In-Reply-To: <15371865604549@quicknet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Gabon tapes contain acrinathrin which is very closely related to > tau- fluvalinate, the active ingredient in Apistan/Mavrik/Klartan > and to flumethrin, the active ingredient in Bayvarol and Bayticol. > It is proven that there is a cross-resistance in varroa to all three > substances. This means that if there are pyrethoid resistant mites, > Gabon will be no more effective than Apistan or Bayvarol. Varroa will probably develope resistance to all pyrethroids. It's probably matter of time. But as I know, the tests - so far - showed that varroa resistant to Apistan was not resistant to Gabon. Not yet. Talking about relationship of pyrethroids (your statement 'acrinathrin which is very closely related to tau- fluvalinate' can be discussed...) is simillar to talking about relationship between antibiotics. It does exist bacterias which are resistant to some antibiotics and so far not to others. So far we can't say if some bacteria is resistant to one antibiotic, it's resistant to all of them. So far. When talking pyrethroids relationsship you must think that Gabon is - let say - a 'second generation' of pyrethroids. Take for example a look at the dosage for one beehive (mentioned before): Apistan: around 1000 mg (different in different countries ) Gabon: 0,1 mg I even mentioned before - toxicity for bee/varroa fluvalinate: 2x acrinathrine: 200x Lot of people are concerned about residues (when talking pyrethroids - in wax which can be present in honey ). LD50/man fluvalinate (Apistan ): 250 g acrinathrine (Gabon ): 280 g (compare with salt (NaCl) - 200g ) ADI/man (Acceptable Dayly Intake ): fluvalinate: 7 mg acrinathrine: 1,4 mg NOEL /man (NO Effect Level ): fluvalinate: 70 mg acrinathrine: 210 mg \vov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:30:06 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Stans sugar questions Hi All/Stan Interesting question - I think I can answer some of them: >How much energy does the inversion proccess cost the bees? Well the process requires enzymes - which are proteins. Proteins requite a source of amino acids to build - if that source is lacking the bees cannot do anything with the sugar syrup I believe and actually take it and dump it in the sky some distance from the hive (I have watched this happen clearly last year when I fed bees during a complete dearth. Within 20 minutes of feeding the was full of bee trails - and highlighted against the sun one could see cute little squirts or something ebing dropped -that made sticky marks on the trees). Hence I suspect that energy wise - if there is no source of protein coming in the bees are going to be hammered as they have to dispose of a potentially dangerous substance (can cause all sorts of problems they are programmed to avoid) - using resrouces they don't have. If they are healthy and have a good source of protein I would hazard a geuss that they inversion is most probably not one that the bees have to invest energy in - there is latent energy in a disaccharide that can drive the reaction. Heat would be enough. >Which is better - glucose or fructose or invertsugar? Glucose is slowly and efficiently broken down and enters the break down proccess at the beginning - where the bees have enzymatic controls to stop the reaction going too fast and bottle necking the breakdown - leading to other pathways being activated and other products like cholesterol being produced (I am assuming the same rules apply for bees as for things like fish and humans and yeast which do the same thing if they have too much). Fructose enters the breakdown cycles at a point beyond which they bees have enzymatic control over the rate of reaction - this forces the cycles to produce products - like cholesterol and ketones etc. This may not be good - or it may be good as it may provide starting blocks for wax synthesis? The mix would therefore be better - it is after all very similar to honey, and won't use much proccessing. THe US is the largest producer in the world of invert sugar - by a very long way. After that comes Japan. HFCS is an invert sugar I gather - check in the midwest somewhere in the corn belt. The same company manufactures a lot of corn starch and monosodium glutamate and lysine (you could probably get the name from any pig food manufacturer as they will buy their lysine from this source undoubtedly) The US companies use corn starch as a starting point, whereas the Japanese and Italians use mainly Rice. I suspect there are probably large scale rice inverters in the US as well as Budweiser uses this (rice invert sugar) as an ingredient. It is lower in protein than corn product and as a result produces a less milky beer. Hope that helps Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey The Universe is not here right now, if you would like to leave a message, leave your name and number after the long silence and it will get back to you as soon as possible. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:36:10 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Stans sugar questions In-Reply-To: <199812101636.FAA09370@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >How much energy does the inversion proccess cost the bees? You can get a copy of an article from the NZ Beekeeper called "The Inside Story of Feeding Sugar to Bees" that attempts a mathematical model of the conversion process by writing to the NZ Beekeeping autoresponder: syrup@beekeeping.co.nz and it'll be sent to you next time I log on... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Stings (Notes for a Radio Interview)? Email to: stings@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:44:16 +1300 Reply-To: happy.valley.honey@xtra.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dot Rawnsley Organization: Happy Valley Honey Subject: Manuka Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jack Geer asks the type of plant Manuka Honey is produced from. Manuka is the Maori name for Leptospermum scoparium, a member of the Myrtaceae family. It is a low growing scrubby bush, growing generally on low quality land on the coast or on the fringes of native forests or as first growth on recently cleared land. It's first cousin is Kanuku which is a taller variety with finer leaves and flowers. The honey from both varieties is medium dark, and very thixotropic. Almost impossible to extract without the right equipment and very easy to overheat. Properly extracted the taste is rich and very pleasant. The flowers are small and white in the wild varieties and pink and red in the cultured garden varieties. Interesting the number of words identical in both the Hawaiian and Maori languages. Do Rawnsley ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:10:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Stans sugar questions In-Reply-To: <199812101637.IAA00967@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:30 PM 12/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >>How much energy does the inversion proccess cost the bees? Hi Garth and Bee Friends, The Best of the Season to You All! Feeding sugar that has not been inverted causes a condition know by beekeepers here as bee "burn" out or "burning" them out. Not very scientific but common use experience that started in the old days with package bees that were kept for days on syrup made from dry cane or beet sugars. In those days it was well know again from experience the shorter time the bees were kept in the package the better they would do. Inverted sugars from beets or cane and blends of invert and sucrose in time replaced sucrose because the package bees did better on them; bees and feed may last longer in the package and the bees developed faster after installation. Still the faster they are introduced the better they do, but they can be kept longer on invert sugar then normal sucrose sugar. >Well the process requires enzymes - which are proteins. Proteins >requite a source of amino acids to build - if that source is lacking >the bees cannot do anything with the sugar syrup I believe and >actually take it and dump it in the sky some distance from the hive >(I have watched this happen clearly last year when I fed bees during >a complete dearth. Within 20 minutes of feeding the was full of bee >trails - and highlighted against the sun one could see cute little >squirts or something ebing dropped -that made sticky marks on the >trees). Hence I suspect that energy wise - if there is no source of >protein coming in the bees are going to be hammered as they have to >dispose of a potentially dangerous substance (can cause all sorts of >problems they are programmed to avoid) - using resrouces they don't >have. Well in the US this is not a reported problem with invert sugars recommended to bee feeders and without seeing the specs of the sugar you are using I would guess that it could be different from that which is provided here. All sugar is sold by analysis and no sugar company is so interested in selling beekeepers sugar that they would provide any kind of additional sugars or other ingredients that would make bees sick as this would invite law suites and bad press for both. Most problems occur when beekeepers buy sugars outside of the normal channels, such as fast buck sugar brokers who have on repeated occasions sold beekeepers sugars that were found to be contaminated or off grade in other ways that proved to be detrimental to their bees. If the deal is too good to be true, its true. >If they are healthy and have a good source of protein I would hazard >a geuss that they inversion is most probably not one that the bees >have to invest energy in - there is latent energy in a disaccharide >that can drive the reaction. Heat would be enough. >>Which is better - glucose or fructose or invertsugar? Feeding tests and millions of gallons fed each year has shown Invert sugar and blends to be the best and most economical sugar to use in feeding bees at least in California. We do not have real cold winters but we do have long periods of time when bees can not fly, 30 to 90 days or more, which can be just as bad if bees do not have good food sources. >The mix would therefore be better - it is after all very similar to >honey, and won't use much proccessing. My own experience with feeding pure honey is that there is no benefit at all compared to feeding invert sugar syrups. It normally is more costly then any other sugars and out of reach of the bud jets of most beekeepers. No scientific literature that I know of has demonstrated any real benefits to feeding bees honey, and many pitfalls. >THe US is the largest producer in the world of invert sugar - by a >very long way. We are that indeed and the reason for this is we have a large market and NO controls other then those found in everyday business economics. Corn syrups are not considered sugars for political reasons. US corn sugar technology is for sale and new plants are being built in other countries. It must be remembered that some areas that can grow corn also grow sugar cane or beet sugar and are not interested in expanding corn uses at the expense of cane production. >The US companies use corn starch as a starting point, whereas the >Japanese and Italians use mainly Rice. I suspect there are probably >large scale rice inverters in the US as well as Budweiser uses this >(rice invert sugar) as an ingredient. It is lower in protein than >corn product and as a result produces a less milky beer. The type of rice grown in the US is different from rice grown elsewhere such as the sweet rice of Japan and is milled into all kinds of rice products but I know of no large scale use of rice to make inverted sugar. One reason for this is that our rice growers may have a inflated idea of the farm value of rice compared to other areas of the world. It could be they want to get a price for the "food" rice they grow that includes a little profit and can not compete with "feed" grains grown on non irrigated lands. There are one or more Japanese alcohol beverage outfits starting up in the US, but I believe the economic conditions in Asia will keep these small for years to come. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com Los Banos, Ca USa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:27:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Formic, Lactic and Oxalic Acid for Fighting Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Lactic acid - it has to be sprayed on the bees just like the oxalic acid > >What are the proportions in the spray? You can use the cheap commercial form of lactic acid (mixture of D- and L-Form). Every comb has to be taken out of the hive and has to be sprayed each side with 5 ml of lactic acid (15% solution in water). Varroa only on the bees are killed (efficiency over 90 %) but not the varroa inside brood cells. Therefore you will have to repeat this spraying once or twice in order to kill some of the later hatching mites, too. Best will be if this work is done when there is only a small amount of brood in the hive (autumn in Europe). Temperature when spraying the combs should be over 5 0C Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 500 North, 110 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 15:54:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert E Butcher Subject: Re: Brood Chambers 90 percent of our hives are setup with a deep and a medium box for the brood section.We have a couple of hives that are three mediums deep. It makes it easier to make splits or to beef up another hive. It's nice to know using mediums could possibly help with swarming. we also use the medium boxes because of the weight factor , due to bad backs. Thanks for the info. Bob God Bless You Robert&Teresa Butcher bobbees@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:06:30 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Organization: Hessische Landesanstalt fuer Tierzucht Subject: unhatched eggs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anybody know something about honey bee eggs/embryos that do not hatch ('taube Eier' as would be the German expression)? Any information or reference would be welcome. Best wishes, Michael -- Michael Haberl, Germany haberl@mailer.uni-marburg.de ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:27:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Putty collection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Give the bees access to crown boards, queen excluders etc which are covered in propolis. This is probably what they really want. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:52:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Treating old boxes true, the articles in the abj 10/98 say nothing about preserving woodenware by dipping in paraffin...however, on the question of temperature and afb they are quite clear: "...at temperatures below 150oC results obtained on disinfecting are not satisfactory..."and"...there was absolutely no P.larvae growth detected, indicating that paraffin at 160oC [for 10 minutes] is an effective way of eliminating afb spores in contaminated hive parts..." it may be of interest to note the authors mention that vegetable oils, such as linseed oil, can be used instead...here in florida(usa), pine resin (rosin?) is added to the paraffin dip, perhaps for enhancing wood preserving purposes? regardless, dipping must be repeated after several years of use, presumably with the added benefit of re-disinfection. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:52:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: test, please ignore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT test, please ignore ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:58:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Brood Chambers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit After 51 years of "normal" beekeeping, 14 years ago I gave away every shallow super and deep box I had (over 500) and switched to ONE BOX, Medium (Illinois). I did it for JUST ONE REASON - I wanted a universal frame so I could move a frame to any position in the colony I wanted. I did this change on a 135 colonies, and wish I had been smart enough to start that way back in 1933 and not gone through the suffering I went through for 51 years by not being able to move a brood frame up into a super, or bring a super frame of honey down into the brood chamber. I use 3 medium bodies for brood chambers (The comb surface of 30 Illinois frames = 101% of 20 deep frames.) For reasons of nostalgia, I even put a "dummy" shim of 1 1/2" on the bottom bar and then put 4 Basswood Square Section boxes in place to make some square boxwood section honey for some of my ancient friends. It is nice to hear some young people getting "smart"! Have a fine Holiday season! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:33:33 -0600 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Randy & Isa Chase Subject: Over Wintering Observation Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the local apple orchards and "city folk" rural retreats off of I-94 wants to attempt to over winter a four frame observation hive. The frames are vertically stacked. Ventilation is provided by air slots along the sides and top and from the four foot long PVC tube exiting the building. The observation hive currently has a cluster of buckfast bees (smaller than one would normally like to see going into a Wisconsin winter). The queen is realtively young having superceded the original queen this summer. The original bees came from a nuc installed this past Spring. The owner wants to attempt to over winter the bees in an unheated building where they are currently located. The bees are not able to form a true cluster due to the configuration of the observation hive. Winter stores are also meager due to space limitations. Sugar syrup has been continually available at the base of the hive. The owner wants to attempt to keep the hive warm this winter with infra-red lamps. I noted that the cost of this would be high and that they may not survive. He is willing to try anyway. (As an aside one of the members of our beekeepers group kept a hive going during one cold winter with an extension cord and a heating pad.) I suggested that he continue to feed the bees syrup at a 2:1 ratio. Given the awesome knowledge of the BEE-L audience, I was wondering if anyone would like to hazard a quess on the chances of the hive surviving until Spring or offer their time proven methods for successful over wintering of an observation hive in a cold climate. In the past we just let the bees die off and started over in the Spring. However, the observation hive has become quite a popular attraction. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:28:46 +1300 Reply-To: peter@airborne.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Bray Subject: Re: request for manuka honey In-Reply-To: <199812052341.MAA22192@mx1.clear.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have had a request from a person here in eastern Tennessee USA for > manuka honey. He is interested in its proposed medicinal properties. Does > anyone on the list know of a source for manuka honey? Regards, Pat Parkman > Our New Zealand Honeys (including Manuka) are distributed in the Eastern US. Try the "Food Emporiums" in NY, or Zabars, Citarella etc in NY city. Contact us direct for further information if required. Cheers, Peter Bray ---------------------------------------------------------------- Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 peter@airborne.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:27:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Over Wintering Observation Hive Comments: To: ribac@wi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/11/98 7:03:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, ribac@wi.net writes: > The owner wants to attempt to keep the hive warm this winter with > infra-red lamps. I noted that the cost of this would be high and that > they may not survive. He is willing to try anyway. (As an aside one of > the members of our beekeepers group kept a hive going during one cold > winter with an extension cord and a heating pad.) I suggested that he > continue to feed the bees syrup at a 2:1 ratio. > > Given the awesome knowledge of the BEE-L audience, I was wondering if > anyone would like to hazard a quess on the chances of the hive surviving > until Spring or offer their time proven methods for successful over > wintering of an observation hive in a cold climate. I've gotten one through the winter here in South Carolina, though it wasn't easy. It was a good three framer, and they were down to one frame in the spring. I suggest that the proprieter of the store will not want to keep them too warm. This will encourage them to fly when it is inevitably fatal. Ideal temp would be around 50-60. The shop where we had ours was about 65 during the daytime and got down as low as 45 at night. We had a 75 watt floodlight about 4 feet away, and they tended to stay on the lit side. I think an infrared light would be too much. We turned off the light and covered them with a wool blanket at night. We had syrup on them continuously (on the top, not the bottom). We had some problems with condensation, so I also kept dry sugar on them, in the hopes of them using up some of the water on the sides, and it did seem to help. In the spring I added some bees and requeened them, as the queen seemed to be spent, and brood was spotty. Maybe she got too cold on some of the coldest nights. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:56:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Brood Chambers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are some excellent posts in the archives on mediums, and persuasive enough for me to buy ten mediums to start my shift to all mediums. I tried raising two queen colonies this year and doing so with deeps was too much heavy lifting. It would have been much easier with mediums, which is one reason I am shifting. The other is standardization. You can shift a honey super to be a brood super whenever you want, without having to make up a new brood box. Easier to split, add colonies... check the archives for more good reasons. My only concern is overwintering in Maine, with the one additional break between boxes that the bees are faced with, but I doubt if that will be a major problem Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:28:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Over Wintering Observation Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In response to Ribac's note on maintaining an observation hive: I keep a 2 frame hive going all year here in south-central Pa. on a sun porch that gets as low a 45 degrees F. at night. As it never freezes, the situation is a bit different that that in an unheated building. Even at 45 I use styrafoam covers over the glass to preserve heat. I find that they don't readily take feed during the cold weather, so I like to have a full frame of honey going into the Winter - and I have to force them to take that in the Fall because they would rather raise brood up until Nov. I keep a top feeder on all of the time from Sept until the frame is full. With our warm weather this year I am concerned at the usage. I have not tried it, but have you considered heat tapes of the type used for plant starter boxes. I believe they have a thermostat pre-set at about 70 degrees and if that could be fitted under styrofoam covers it should keep the bees "toasty warm" as long as the covers are on. Jerry in Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:37:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Olda Vancata Subject: Prophets In-Reply-To: <00241103110664@quicknet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I don't like doomsday prophets saying - don't use this or that pyrethroid, because varroa is resistant to Apistan. Why? Because too many of those prophets (not all of them) are partly guilty to varroa beeing resistent so fast to Apistan - and they become 'famouse' because they didn't their job. Discovery of resistant varroa has been done i Italy. Reports says that italian beekeepers manufactured varroa strips themselfs - dipping wooden sticks in solution with the active substance - because it was much cheeper to do it so instead of buying Apistan. Making so, you loose all controll over how much of fluvalinate you put in the beehive. Reports even says that many beekeepers let the strips be in the beehive for month, because 'the varroa was falling down, all the time' - due to the wrong dosage. Better strategy to manufacture resistant varroa does not exist. The researchers who discovered resistant varroa became 'famouse' and being famouse means - much easier to get more money for 'research'. I'm sad, when it's much easier to be famouse because doing nothing instead of stopping the possibility to buy on the open market a solution with the active substance. Instead of keeping seminars to educate beekeepers and convincing them that they are becomming suicide doing so. Even if we still have other pyrethroids which are working, we should stopp to use them - according to those prophets. What kind of alternative those antipyrethroid prophets offer? Formic acid, oxalic acid, or lactic acid. Formic acid is very toxic to bees and results too much dependent on the wheater conditions. Nasty substance for the user too. To many beekeepers discovered that the efficiency is sometimes very low (below 40%, and in some cases even below 10%). Thousands and thousands beehives i Denmark, Germany and Austria (and not only there) just died when beekeepers trusted prophets telling them - use formic acid. When europian commerciall beekeepers recently complained over the bad results, they has been told by a representant for a 'beekeeping research institute' that they know nothing, because they are not even able to learn to use formic acid properly. Oxalic acid. Acording to Italian reaserchers is oxalic acid working well against varroa.Test in Sweden confirmed those results, but all bees died shortly after the test. I asked an Italian resercher working with oxalic acid when the oxalic acid shoud be applied - to avoid killing bees. The answer was - in middle of december. In december I need skies to reach my beehives. Lactic acid. Again - too low efficency, too many killed bees reported, not possible to use for those having more then few beehives - time consuming. This is why I don't like doomsday prophets saying - don't use still working pyrethreoids, because varroa in some countries is resistent to Apistan - without giving beekeepers some realistic alternatives. \vov ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:25:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wolfgang Poehlmann Subject: formic, lactic and oxalic acid for varroa control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hello beel I use a combination of drone removal (in spring), formic acid after last crop in August or September and lactic acid in November or December. Sorry no experience with oxalic acid! I descirbed the method in detail on my homepage ( http://home.t-online.de/home/wolfgang.poehlmann/imkerei.htm) but at the moment only in german; may bee I can try to translate it in english during christmas time. In short: Most of my hives have bottom boards with a mesh. Under this is a from the backside removable thin board (drawer) from wich the bees are separated by the mesh. After the last honey was harvested (August or September) I pull the drawer and put on it a paper as it is used in the kitchen by housewifes (and men) to clean spilled fluids. Here in Germany a brand is Zewa "wisch und weg". On this paper I give 25ml of 80% formic acid for hives on one box with 10 frames Zander (metric Langstroth) and 50 ml for hives on two boxes with 20 frames. Close the drawer an you are done. You treated for varroa without geting in contact with a single bee. The dead varroa fall through the mesh on the drawer an you can see how many you have killed. The advantage of the formic acid is that it kills mites on bees and in the brood, so you have a fall of dead mites for roughly 14 days. Normaly I use it one or two times. In November I remove the drawer and clean it from debris and dead mites. Put it in for 4 - 8 days and count the dead mites on the board. You made a diagnosis without bothering your bees. If you only see dark brown mites and no white or light brown ones then the bees have no more brood. A mite drop of 2 - 3 per week is ok and no further treatment is needed (one dropped mite per day means roughly 250 mites in the colony). If it is more, then I use lactic acid in the broodless colonies. Open the hive when it is over 0 C and not more than +8 C. The bees cluster relativ tight on 5 - 6 frames. Aplly 20% lactic acid with a simple mechanical sprayer (2$) on all bees by pulling each bee covered frame and pressing 3 - 5 times depending on amount of bees. Dont make the bees so wet that they get black! If the natural mite drop after the treatment is to high, repeat it until it is ok. Normal is one or two applications. I used lactic acid in one of my beeyards just this morning. I applied this method since 4 or 5 years. What I think is important in fighting varroa is to use not just one method, but several. No matter what method you use (formic, lactic, oxalic, apistan, bayvarol, perizin, thymol, etheric or mineralic oils, thermal, drone removal, making splits or what ever) the efficieny of your treatment may vary. So it is more safe to combine several methods. Also diagnosis on each hive (if time permits) or on some hives is important to monitor the varroa populations, that can be very different from year to year. I am new on beel. I am a hobby beekeeper with 12 hives in southern Germany, close to Stuttgart. Wolfgang Poehlmann email:wolfgang.poehlmann@t-online.de ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:53:08 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Springall Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Overwintering Observation Hive CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/119 50f17a5d PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg Greetings all from London England. Since 1970 I have been involved with this subject at two venues. 1, The Nature centre at Beckenham 1973 - 1980 ( 8 British Standard Frames 14" x 8 1/2" ). 2, Horniman Museum Forest Hill 1970-1992 (6 British Standard frames ) 3, Horniman Museum from 1994 ( 8 British Commercial frames 16" x 10" ). There is no doubt in my mind that there is no better insulation for bees than bees. Feed and feed in the autumn (fall) to encourage brood rearing . If artificial heat is used, supply only enough to prevent freezing and make sure it is thermostatically controlled. The big danger is kidding the bees that it's warm outside causing them to break winter cluster. Late October the bees should cover at least 1,180 sq. inches of comb area. Anything less can be tricky. As the days start to lengthen, brood rearing will start slowly. A trickle of weak syrup will help but be careful not to be too helpful as the bees can only look after just so much brood. I always use cane sugar (in England they try to sell us beet sugar), and I always add a little dose of Thymol Crystals which helps to prevent fermentation and the dysentry that goes with it. Fifty years ago when I first started, the old boys used to wrap up their hives espesially the double walled ones, but in those days the river Thames used to freeze over, something we have not seen for many years. Good beekeeping to you all. I will watch this space with great interest. Peter Springall, Catford, LONDON. --- * Origin: peter.springall@zbee.com Bromley Branch (240:244/119) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:41:37 -0700 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Over Wintering Observation Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Garth, Ribac: > In response to Ribac's note on maintaining an observation hive: > > One of our rooms in our house is pretty much un-heated (closed door to the remainder of the house) which I house a three-frame observation hive attached to a window. The hive is somewhat warmed by indirect sunlight during daylight and the hive is wrapped with a layered coating of wool blankets & cotton towels. Inbetween the first layer, immediately next to the 1'st blanket & glass, I've placed a 25W flourescent bulb (75W light rating) which is covered by aluminum foil (keeps the blanket from touching the mildly hot bulb). The hive still stays very dark and the one side of the hive always stays fairly warm. This same side is always where you'll find the queen, right in the area of the bulb so I'm guessing the temperature stays about right. I've been feeding them 2:1 sugar/water with a makeshift boardman type of feeder (off the back of the hive). Sometimes I'll have to coach them back into the feeder by dripping a bit of honey down the side of the hive from one of the air-holes. They'll travel down the side until they get close to the feeder and then tell their friends what they've found. Within about 20-30 minutes the feeder is pretty active (on a mild-temperature day). Just let them be on colder days as they just like to ball up and maintain temperature than collect food. This hive only has about 1000 bees but I don't think a single bee has died in the past 2 months (unless they remove their dead at night). Good luck with your observation hive - they're extremely interesting. If I'm working next to the hive, I'll notice noises I would have never heard from any of my outside hives - buzzing noises which I'm sure are used to communicate in some way. Matthew in Castle Rock, CO ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:38:57 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Overwintering observation hive and small hive beetle Hi All Just a note - observation hives are far more prone to the small hive beetle as they don't thermoregulate so well and sometimes have to withdraw away from pollen stores - and the beetles get in. I have had some problems here (SA - different country, different bee) with the hive beetles and my obs hives - if you are in an area with hive beetle problems it would probably be adviseable to put the thing into a nuc for winter - a beehive in a shop with hive beetles is really bad advertising for bees - there is nothing more gross than the smell of rotting pollen, brood and ugly little maggets dripping out of the frames amid a helpless cluster of bees! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey The Universe is not here right now, if you would like to leave a message, leave your name and number after the long silence and it will get back to you as soon as possible. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 08:44:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leslie Sturges Subject: Re: Overwintering Observation Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Intersting this should come up... I maintain an observation hive in a north-facing greenhouse. It's an = 8-frame unit, though the bees only use three of the frames. The temperature= s in the greenhouse stay between 68 F and 80 F. My problem is trying to = cool the hive enough. I run an AC unit and have slowly turned it down to = about 60F, but I'm not sure it's working as the bees seem pretty active. = My feeder is on the exit tube and the top feeders that came with the hive = send a constant stream of syrup into the hive so I don't use them. This is = the first winter we'll be trying to see the bees through, so I have no = idea how to keep them from getting confused and trying to fly.=20 How active are they at US Mid-Atlantic region winter temps? Are all the = bees clustered together or can there be several clusters? Will hive "work" = continue through the winter, with some bees leaving the clusters and = cleaning around the empty parts of the frames? And is there a good = reference book for maintaining observation hives? Thanks for your help. PS We are considering a redesign of our hive and are interested in placing = a "standard" hive outside and running a camera and remote monitor to the = hive. We are thinking of some sort of mini-lens that might be steerable. = Has anyone on the list experimented with this sort of "high tech" = observation hive? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:03:34 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Apidictor for swarm prevention Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I recently came across mention of a device called an Apidictor. My information is that it was invented about 35 years ago, and it is cited as the first practical use of electronics in swarm prevention. It appears to be a British invention. Is there a modern equivalent, and/or has the concept been developed elsewhere?. I am wondering if any of the list members has any experience of using it, or an equivalent, or knows somebody with such experience. Any information received with gratitude. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Hobbyist beekeeper e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:38:18 +0200 Reply-To: Khaleel Amer Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Khalil Amero Subject: Paralysis virus control measures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear lister's, is their any control measures to control & reduce the effect of the paralysis virus. thanks in advance Khalil Amro k.a.mer@firstnet.com.jo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:34:34 +0200 Reply-To: Khaleel Amer Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Khalil Amero Subject: demeration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee- Lister, Could anybody explain to me the demeration process,( the conditions, timing,and any modification ). thanks in advance Khalil Amro k.a.mer@firstnet.com.jo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:41:23 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Apidictor for swarm prevention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett in Ireland asked about the apidictor. Eddie Woods developed this device to listen to the bees. A microphone was inserted into the rear of the broodchamber through a hole in the box. When not in use a large cork was used to seal the hole.Eddie kept bees in Hertfordshire in the late 50s or early 60s and some of these modified broodboxes can stillbe found in use today,I have a couple in use in my own apiaries. I suspect the system had its problems as it never became popular as a way of predicting what the bees were going to do. I have never seen the actual apparatus that was used even though Eddie kept his bees near where I keep mine today.Don Mapp, a beekeeper a few miles from here in Essex spent several years measuring temperature variations in a broodchamber using 64? heat probes linked to a computerised monitoring system @ Queen Mary College in London. Don showed that there were indeed measurable changes in the hive enviroment before swarming. As far as I know he has not continued to pursue this line of research and is now a teacher by profesion Peter Dalby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:59:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sondra H Schmidt Subject: Overwintering Observation Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I would like to incorporate your hint about Thymol crystals. Is this something I might find at a pharmacy? Thanks in advance. Beesknees@Compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:57:45 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Subject: bee venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE272F.0D64AB40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE272F.0D64AB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joel Feliciano Magsaysay Landline & Telefax: (063) 046-865-0018 Cellphone & Cellfax: IDD: 063-912-318-7517 DDD: 0912-318-7517 Mail to: P. O. Box #1, 4118 Silang, Cavite, Philippines Home Apiary: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS #8 ILOG MARIA KM. 47, AGUINALDO HIGHWAY LALAAN 1, SILANG, CAVITEI've managed to collect = small amounts of crystallized bee venom using a third generation venom = collector device. I' like to be able to collect 100 gms to 1,000 gms. =20 Can anyone help me design new collector devices for this scale of bee = venom production? How many colonies will I need? ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE272F.0D64AB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joel Feliciano Magsaysay
Landline & = Telefax:=20 (063) 046-865-0018
Cellphone & Cellfax: IDD:=20 063-912-318-7517
         = ;            =           =20 DDD: 0912-318-7517
Mail to: P. O. Box #1, 4118 Silang, Cavite,=20 Philippines
Home Apiary: ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE=20 FARMS
          &nbs= p;          =20 #8 ILOG=20 MARIA
          &nbs= p;          =20 KM. 47, AGUINALDO=20 HIGHWAY
          &n= bsp;          =20 LALAAN 1, SILANG, CAVITEI've managed to collect small amounts of = crystallized=20 bee venom using a third generation venom collector device. I' like to be = able to=20 collect 100 gms to 1,000 gms.
 
Can anyone help me design new collector = devices for=20 this scale of bee venom production? How many colonies will I=20 need?
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE272F.0D64AB40-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 01:56:05 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Olda Vancata Subject: Re: Apidictor for swarm prevention In-Reply-To: <16313196818419@quicknet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I recently came across mention of a device called an Apidictor. Is > there a modern equivalent, and/or has the concept been developed > elsewhere? > I am wondering if any of the list members has any experience of > using it, or an equivalent, or knows somebody with such experience. Take a look at: American Bee Journal 135(9): 615-618. You can even order bibliography covering the subject from IBRA. \vov ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:55:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Observation Hives - Temp. Regulation and Electronics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: We have kept observation hives going year round at UM over a period of several years. Our hives are kept in normal classrooms and offices, so they never get very cold. In somewhat milder climates, we have kept small nucs going through the winter using heat tapes - a much safer approach than using light bulbs and more controllable. Most come with thermostats, so they don't run all the time. And they are more or less weather proof (i.e., water, etc.). Just lace the tape back and forth in an S-shaped loop between the hive cover and the glass. As per getting the bees too warm, check out our on-line observation hive. The hive is attached to a south facing window by about 3 ft (1 m) of tubing. The counter that counts the comings and goings of bees through the window is position at the window, not the hive. On really nasty days, the bees cluster. You won't see any counts on the counters, and you won't see any bees walking past the camera mounted in the entrance/exit tube (between the counter at the window and the hive further back in the office). But on a warm, clear day you will begin to see bees and small counts as bees pace back and forth through the tube. Beats me how the bees know that some days it just isn't ever going to clear or warm up, so why waste the effort to check on the weather; and on other days they pace back and forth waiting to go out. Bottom line, if it is nice enough for them to go out on a cleansing flight, they will. If not, they won't even bother to look. And remember, the hive in my office is toasty warm regardless of the outside weather. Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk Research Professor The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu 406-243-5648 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:21:38 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: oarnge pollen and white pollen In-Reply-To: <199812130841.AAA24804@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, The winter flow is is starting here in Southern California now that we've had some rain. The gals have found sources of white pollen and a very reddish oarnge pollen and are busy hauling it in by the pollen basketfull. Suprisingly there is no yellow pollen coming in now. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:42:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: BEES, BUTTERFLIES & CONSERVATION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you have bought next year's diary please make an entry for Saturday 13th February. Dorchester & Weymouth BKA in association with Dorset County Council is hosting a seminar to be held in Puddletown Village Hall on that date. Chairman is Dr Phil Sterling, the County Ecologist. Subjects to be covered will include Biodiversity projects on butterflies; the management of nature reserves for butterflies; conservation of wasps, solitary and social bees; Dr Beulah Cullen NDB, Regional Bee Inspector on the needs and benefits of bees; Dennis Clemens on the needs and benefits of beekeepers. There will be mead and honey tasting followed by a closing session Biodiversity and beekeeping - coincidence of aims? followed by a Brains Trust. It should be a busy afternoon programmed to start at 2 and finishing at 5pm. And its FREE. Although it is a little too far for our US contributors, would UK readers please pass the word to anybody who might be interested. Chris Slade Chairman, Dorchester & Weymouth BKA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:38:57 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ross Peters Subject: Clustering Problem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, Greetings from a very hot Melbourne (anyone been watching the President s Cup?). It s been over 100 for the last couple of days. Finally cooled down to a but more normal December temperature of 70. Been amused to read of everyone s discussion on how to keep their hives warm if only we had that problem!! I have my own little problem, and would appreciate some assistance if someone has had a similar situation. (Remembering it s early summer here) I created a split by placing 3 frames of brood and bees in a 8 frame single box last September (spring). Seems to have been moving along nicely. They created a queen, made cells and capping cells and brood hatching. Haven t had the time to open it up for the last 6 weeks. Following the hot weather for the last few days, hundreds of bees have been clustering outside the entrance. Thought that was OK, as it may have been too hot inside for all the bees. Now the cooler weather and some rain has come, the cluster is still hanging around outside, with no signs of going back inside. As I work through the week and go to my farm at the weekends at the moment, I m not home at the right time to open the hive up to see what s going on inside. I would like to move this hive as I probably have too many hives in my back yard and it is still only a single. I m only reasonably new to beekeeping, and would appreciate some advice on: - How to get them inside in order to move the hive. - Will they be in a nasty frame of mind if I try to scrape them off the sides into the box, and go back outside anyway? Should I cover up completely? - Are they outside, as there isn t enough room inside for them? - Are they getting ready to swarm? - Any other ideas? Thanks very much for your answers in advance. I really appreciate this discussion group, and am always learning from it. Ross ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:08:53 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: Clustering Problem Comments: To: rp33@HOTMAIL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ross You can move the hive with the bees outside without scraping them off. Take a large piece of window screening and place the hive in the center and then wrap the remaining screen around the hive and tie or maybe tape it together at the top. As for the bees swarming you should have a look inside to see it there are any queen cells. Hope this helps some, I'm jealous of you warm weather, wish I were there. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:40:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim and Lois Rich and family Subject: Bees in the chicken feeder. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With the extremely warm fall and winter in the North Carolina mountains, = the bees are remaining active - but with a strange twist - in our yard. = We have 5 chickens that we are feeding cracked corn and layer mash. One = day this week my son(owner of the bees) reported finding bees in the = chicken feeder. I went out thinking that he was mistaken and that there = were yellow jackets making a nest in the chicken yard. Indeed, both my = bees(midnight bees) and others(Italians) were in the feeder and the = surrounding area grubbing(for lack of a better word) in the layer mash. = I looked up the ingredients of the layer mash and found that they = contain soy beans, amongst many other fine scientific words(vitamins, = nothing else). =20 I don't think that my bees are in danger, as I think that they probably = know what to feed on most of the time, but wonder if any of you have any = experience with this. BTW - the weather has finally turned cold in the last two days, and = rained also. The bees are staying at home more now. Tim Rich=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:54:41 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan and Bayvoral (by Dr. Max Watkins) In-Reply-To: <913233686.1015599.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Ian, In message <913233686.1015599.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Ian Watson writes >Hi all > >>In the UK and in other countries where it is registered (over 40 >>countries) the Apistan label states that the withdrawal period is zero >>and it can be used at any time of the year, even during a honeyflow. > >If you mean by the "withdrawal period" that the time the strips should be in >the hive, our Apistan labels say 42 days. Also, ours say that honey supers >should be off when the strips are in. Why the difference? > The treatment period with Apistan is correct as 42 days (for USA). The Withdrawal Period is the time you have to wait after treatment before harvesting the product (in this case honey). Different National regulatory bodies will stipulate different label requirements but the European Union has given a decision that no Withdrawal Period is necessary as the risk of residues or tox is extremely low following Apistan use in beehives. I know the ruling in the States. Logically and based on all the evidence we have from around the world, it should be possible to change the labelling but that is for the EPA to decide. It's not a big issue as far as practicallity goes; Apistan is more effective before or after the main honeyflows - not because of the honey but because there is less capped brood to harbour/protect mites during those periods. It's just one of those National idiosynchracies in product labelling. Max >Ian Watson ian@gardener.com >real estate agent baritone gardener >beekeeper---> 11 colonies -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 05:07:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Mitchell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a beekeeper/haver in the Austin, Tx area. We are enjoying wonderfuly unseasonable weather right now, the bees are flying and hammers are a working. I have a need to find a mentor for my brother in the Egan, Minnesota area. I am in Texas and he is in Minnesota. I guess you can imagine what sort of questions he has and what a phone bill would look like. He isn't a real mechanical person and has many questions about how thing work in the hive. I remember when I first started many yrs ago having an older german man as a mentor. A hard but fair man. I will never forget the experiences. He never really tought me much about charastics of bees he tought me more how to think and prepare for spring. My off season times are spent preparing and chomping at the bit awaiting the first signs of blossoms. If there is a person who would like to share beekeeping with someone that has a strong desire to learn but not much of a mental mechanical ability, please write me. Thanks, Scott Mitchell Write to: smitch@totalaaccess.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:36:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Bees in the chicken feeder. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/14/98 3:48:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, tegimr@ABTS.NET writes: > With the extremely warm fall and winter in the North Carolina mountains, = > the bees are remaining active - but with a strange twist - in our yard. = > We have 5 chickens that we are feeding cracked corn and layer mash. One = > day this week my son(owner of the bees) reported finding bees in the = > chicken feeder. I went out thinking that he was mistaken and that there = > were yellow jackets making a nest in the chicken yard. Indeed, both my = > bees(midnight bees) and others(Italians) were in the feeder and the = > surrounding area grubbing(for lack of a better word) in the layer mash. = > I looked up the ingredients of the layer mash and found that they = > contain soy beans, amongst many other fine scientific words(vitamins, = > nothing else). =20 > I don't think that my bees are in danger, as I think that they > probably = > know what to feed on most of the time, but wonder if any of you have any = > experience with this. When pollen is scarce, bees will gather most any powdered material, even sawdust, or dust on the dirt roads. It doesn't usually go on long, as it happens more often in the spring, and spring flowers usually follow any warm spell. Here in South Carolina, the pears were starting to blossom before the weather finally turned seasonable. We had weeks of 70's and even a few 80's. Very dry with a high fire danger. One of my yards is badly needing a burn off, and I don't dare. The pine straw is crunchy. But if it burns when I'm not around, I'll lose a lot of hives. Well, we finally got a little rain and cooler weather, temporarily helping this problem. > BTW - the weather has finally turned cold in the last two days, and = > rained also. The bees are staying at home more now. > Some of the hives brooded up quite a bit during the warm spell; others have no brood. In all cases they were highly active, meaning they ate a lot of reserve food, much more than normal for this time of year. Watch out for a lot of starvation late in the winter. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:17:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Brood Chambers -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>> Bill Truesdell 12/12 7:56 am >>> writes My only concern is overwintering in Maine, with the one additional break between boxes that the bees are faced with, but I doubt if that will be a major problem Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Hi Bill, Overwintering should not be a problem as I have been doing it here in Minnesota for over 10 years now with all mediums. I do use 4 mediums for the brood camber here mostly to provide room for winter stores. Like to have the top two boxes pretty much completely full of honey/ pollen. I provide an upper entrance and reduce the bottom entrance to keep mice out but usually don't wrap. We probably get as cold as you do but have less snow. St Paul, MN 45 degrees north blane ************************************* Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture St Paul, MN blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:01:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sondra H Schmidt Subject: test, please ignore MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have recently been seeing a creamed honey product in the market and elsewhere. Does anyone know how this product is made? Is there a deman= d for this product? Beesknees@Compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:08:16 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Olda Vancata Subject: Re: bee venom In-Reply-To: <23394114019426@quicknet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I've managed to collect small amounts of crystallized bee venom > using a third generation venom collector device. I' like to be able > to collect 100 gms to 1,000 gms. Can anyone help me design new > collector devices for this scale of bee venom production? Take contact with D. Titera at BEEDOL@alphanet.cz. I believe they can help you. \vov ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:28:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Clustering Problem Ross states that he has a small hive (eight frames) that has a cluster of bees on the outside that never go inside and asks how to get them inside so he can move the hive. As another responder said, they can be moved, even hanging to the outside of the hive if wrapped in screen. I would go so far as to say that if you don't mind losing some of the field bees and just want to move the colony (and the field bees will join other hives anyway), you can move them even without the screen just by putting them in a running vehicle. I have done that before (unintentionally) when the cover on a hive I was moving in my enclosed minivan came off and the bees started coming out and clustering on the outside of the box. I just took off anyway in the van and the vibrations from the running engine seemed to keep them from flying--they just stayed clustered until I stopped the vehicle and took them and set them on their new spot. For that particular experience, since I had little experience at the time, I kept my protective bee gear (veil, etc.) on while driving, but found that the bees did not fly anyway. Now, since I know from experience how bees normally behave when being moved in a running vehicle (especially if you smoke them good before you move them and "try" to get them to go back inside with smoke before moving them) I will often not even put a cover on the hive box. I've never experienced a problem with angry bees while moving them as long as I've smoked them first and as long as the vehicle engine is running and the "car" is moving. When reading about your bees, I was reminded of another experience I had when I wanted to remove a box of bees that had built a colony in a squirrel nesting box. It likewise had a large cluster of bees hanging on the outside of the box. I smoked them all into the box and covered the entrance hole, but things still didn't seem right to me. The box was mounted on a wooden fence. I finally got a chair (since bees still seemed to be coming out of somewhere) and climbed up on it and looked over the fence, and there was a huge cluster of bees hanging on the back side of the fence (about the same size as the cluster that had been on the front before I started smoking them). It became ofvious to me that there were more bees there than would fit inside them box. Best wishes and good luck. You might think of moving the bees into a larger box before moving them to their final destination so that all of them will fit inside the box. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:20:08 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Clustering Problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you have an extra box of combs put them under the hive bodies to provide clustering room for your bees. This has worked for me when I needed to move them. The downside is tall hives are somewhat tippy in the truck so brace them well. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:21:56 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Canadian Honey Council In-Reply-To: <199812140851.VAA28170@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Can anyone provide me with details (date, time, venue, contact person) for a meeting of the Canadian Honey Council that is to be held sometime in January in Vancouver? (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... NZ Bkpg: Governmental Involvement? Email to: govt@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:08:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Canadian Honey Council Comments: To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Nick Wallingford To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: December 14, 1998 16:37 Subject: Canadian Honey Council Hi Nick: The Canadian Honey Council(CHC), and the BCHPA and CAPA will meet in Victoria,British Columbia January 21-23, 1999. If you need further information contact CHC secretary Heather Clay at CHC-CCM@telusplanet.net Season's Geetings