From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:14 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27297 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11089 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11089@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:08 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9905A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 216786 Lines: 4752 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:24:59 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CLAUDE R STRIFE Subject: sting Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This may sound like a stupid question, but I have to ask. What reaction does the average bee-keeper experience to a bee sting?? The reason I ask is that I have kept bees for 15+ years and experienced local sore/swelling/heat/itch in area of sting lasting about 2-3 days. Last summer I received two stings to the back of my neck after I had passed under an unseen swarm on my tractor and within 5 minutes had a severe alergic reaction. I have been going thru the series of immunization shots since that time. At this time I experience slight swelling and sorness that lasts about a day at site of sting. What is normal reaction for the average person??? Feel free to reply to my email address if you so desire(strifecr@prodigy.net) This is my first attempt at using this site, so hope I am doing it right. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 11:40:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Swarm prevention Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have two very strong hives each on two National Brood chambers in my back garden with neighbours all around me. Neither hive has a marked queen. I noticed swarm cells being built two days ago in the upper brood chamber of the two hives. I destroyed these cells. Due to the presence of neighbours nearby I did not examine the lower chambers. I read somewhere that if a Queen excluder is placed such that the queen cannot depart with the swarm, that the swarm will return to the hive. If this be the case, I will not have lost the swarm and will not have to go to possible trouble in the neighbourhood to retrieve it. But I am now under pressure to resolve the situation. My next steps in this type of scenario are not clear to me. I could possibly use a Taranov Board to create an artificial swarm or maybe split the hive. Or perhaps I should split the hive in the first instance. Has anybody used a queen excluder as described above or is it a hair brained scheme?. What happens drones in the above situation as presumably they will not be able to leave the hive?. Any comments most welcome. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:13:49 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it may be that the temperature inside >the cluster is sufficiently high to either kill or at least make the varroa >uncomfortable and fall off Has anyone tested for temperature inside the hive as a possible prevention? Perhaps instead of trying to cool our hives we should set them in the sun & paint them darker? Linda ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 09:20:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Swarming Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > that I had a > larger amount of supersedure after requeening when I was changing races > (introducing Carniolan or Caucasian queens to Italian bees). Yes, it's happened to me too. And I have a feeling it's more common in aggressive hives. There is less acceptance to introduced queen cells also in those. In the worst case when I knocked off the old queen, waited until there was no open brood and removed all "home-made" cells before giving them my queen cell, they let her fly to mate and lay a few eggs before kicking her out and make a new queen from eggs she laid. Those bees are no fun! -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:05:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: formic acid Hello all on the list. Was studying some notes the other night on the use of formic acid and mites. NOw this gel form will be or is available for use. My question is will the hive and frame nails quickly rust away? Will and should we be converting to stainless steel nails? Does anyone with a chemistry background better than mine have an idea? Is this a non problem of an overactive mind or have I been stung to many times? Thanks Al Boehm Columbus N C ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 09:20:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom asks "I read somewhere that if a Queen excluder is placed such that the queen cannot depart with the swarm, that the swarm will return to the hive. If this be the case, I will not have lost the swarm and will not have to go to possible trouble in the neighbourhood to retrieve it. But I am now under pressure to resolve the situation." What you read is partially correct. If you have a queen excluder between the bottom board and the first hive body, and no other entrance, the primary swarm will still leave the hive but will return when they find the queen is not with them. However, as soon as there is a virgin queen, who can easily get through a queen excluder, the swarm will leave with her! You have two choices: - cut out every swarm cell, and keep cutting them out every week until they stop making them - create an artificial swarm If you decide to do the latter, the easiest way is to put an excluder between the two hive bodies and leave it there for three days. On the fourth day (or the middle of the third day) see which body has eggs; that is the body with the queen. Move that body to a new hive stand. If you like, that hive stand can be beside the present hive, behind it, etc. The field bees from the body moved will go back to the old location, leaving just nurse bees, and the old queen, behind. That hive will not swarm, as most of the population will go back to the hive on the old stand. Don't worry about whether there are queen cells present, as the hive will not swarm! Super it normally, and you should get a normal crop. The hive on the old stand now has a large population, but no queen. This is an ideal hive to produce comb honey, as it will be very crowded (with field bees formerly in two stories now in one story). First, however, you need to think about a new queen. You have four alternatives: - If they have a sealed cell, let them produce their own. Don't worry if there is more than one sealed cell. With the break in the brood cycle, this hive will not swarm and if more than one queen hatches, they will fight until only one survives. - If there is a sealed cell in the hive body you moved, cut it out and give it to this hive. (Let me know if you do not know how to do this.) - Buy a queen and introduce her in the normal manner. - Let them raise a queen from scratch. If you do this, after two weeks go into the hive that was moved and take 3-4 frames of brood and exchange them with 3-4 broodless frames from the hive on the old stand. This will help maintain the bee population in the hive on the old stand until bees from the new queen start hatching. Give the hive on the old stand a Ross Round(tm) super, or super it normally. As I said, this is an ideal hive to use for production of comb honey as it will behave like a swarm, in terms of nectar collection and cell building, but will not swarm. Good luck, Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 08:46:07 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: sting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Claude - I have been keeping bees about as long as you. My reaction to stings seems to have decreased with time. Perhaps it is physical... perhaps it is psychological. I don't worry much about them and know when I need to watch out for stings. My reaction to the sting depends on where I get stung. The usual sting is on my arm or back of my hand. It hurts at the time, but no more than the shin-splints I get from running... neither stops me from that activity. The real pain lasts only a few minutes and the swelling and itch lasts for about a day. I think stings on the extremities are the least problematic. Stings on the face and neck seem worse - the reason I choose to wear a veil. I also hear of more adverse reactions to these kind of stings. I'm not surprised to here you reacted differently to those stings. Larry Krengel PS "This is my first attempt at using this site, so hope I am doing it right." ... You're doing fine. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:16:40 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees Comments: To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: 01 May 1999 04:12 Subject: Re: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees >Hi. >Varroa mites thrive on two factors: high humidity and heat. >Lack of proper ventilation enhance their growth and abundance. >Best regards. >Dr. R. > Hi Pedro, It has been a while since I heard from you. How are your mineral oil experiments getting on? With regard to varroa and heat. I understood that varroa mites die if exposed to a temperature of 45 deg. C. (The temperature might be wrong I would have to look it up to confirm this) A few years ago now there was a lot of discussion about heating hives and numerous experiments were carried out in Germany. It was claimed at the time that exposing the varroa to heat not only killed the mites on the bees but also those in the cells. Perhaps new research has proved this wrong but I have not been made aware of it. Harry. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 11:23:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Sting reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I saw the post about sting reaction, and had to reply. As a fairly new beekeeper, I was afraid of the stings at first, not sure how my body would react. With time, the symptoms have lessened to the point where the sting hurts, and has local swelling, and cant even be found in a couple of hours. I did have a sting on my ankle last year that made me wonder though. It caused my foot to swell for 4 days, was warm to the touch, and hurt like crazy. A nursing friend of mine told me it could be due to less circulation in that area. I have also been told that the age of the bee doing the stinging, and it's role in the hive may have an impact on reaction. Supposedly guard bees have more potent venom? Hope that info helps. Thanks all! Scott Moser Moser's Apiary Cedar Hill, MO. "I believe beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to enjoy the final sweet rewards." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:38:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: formic acid and nails MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to a speaker from the University of Guelph (Sorry, I cannot recall his name) at the march meeting of the Michigan Beekeepers association, Formic acid does indeed cause the nails and wire to rust out. He didn't mention how long it takes. I inquired at several beekeeping supply places, and nobody seems to be carrying stainless steel nailsor wire for frames. All I was able to find at local hardware stores were very large- the smallest could be used for hive bodies, but nothing small enough for frames. These nails are also a lot more expensive than regular nails! I called several Nail manufacturers, and after contacting several, was given the name of one nail supplier who carried small sizes of stainless nails- problem was that the smallest order quantity was way too large for my needs. I gave the information to Lapp Bee supply in Wisconsin (1-800-321-1960) They seemed willing to consider stocking them if there was interest from enough beekeepers. I am not a chemist, but we use formic acid in the Lab that I work in, and the heavy, coated, metal waste disposal cans we use rust out fairly quickly. (A year or two) The waste is a diluted solution of acetone and other solvents, with a relatively small amount of formic acid. This is a highly caustic acid that is unpleasant and dangerous to work around- a whiff of the fumes will burn the inside of your nose! Be carefull and wear acid resistant gloves and a respirator when handling! Ellen Anglin ----- Original Message ----- From: Becky or Al S Boehm To: Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:05 PM Subject: formic acid > Hello all on the list. > Was studying some notes the other night on the use of formic acid and > mites. NOw this gel form will be or is available for use. My question is > will the hive and frame nails quickly rust away? Will and should we be > converting to stainless steel nails? > Does anyone with a chemistry background better than mine have an idea? > Is this a non problem of an overactive mind or have I been stung to many > times? > Thanks > Al Boehm > Columbus N C > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:57:25 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > However, as soon as there is a virgin queen, who can easily get through a > queen excluder, the swarm will leave with her! The virgin will not get through the excluder any easier that the old queen. It's the thorax of the queen that's bigger than workers, not the abdomen. Actually, the method of using an excluder for swarm prevention is used by many beekeepers. It's a simple way of avoiding swarms to leave the hive. But it has it's draw backs. Firstly, all drones will get trapped above the excluder and finally die there and reduce the ventilation of the hive. Workers will chew them down and dispose of them, but there will be less drones in the air for mating and it might be a problem when working with breeding. When the first swarm try to leave, the old queen will soon be killed by the first emerging virgin. She will then try to leave in a swarm, and the bees will fly in and out of the hive for some time without being able to get the queen with them. After some time, there will only be one virgin left in the hive. At that stage the excluder HAS to be removed in order to let the virgin fly to mate. This system works well, if timed properly. It's draw backs are the amount of dead drones on the excluder blocking ventilation, and the difficulty to keep any record of the genetics. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:28:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al: Formic acid is an organic acid and has little or no effect on metals. Just be cause of the word "acid", too many people think of burn, destruction, etc. After all, carbonated water is carbonic ACID. George ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:29:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Pheromones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, All beekeepers know that bees use a variety of things to communicate with one another. Probably the most important are pheromones. The question I have is, are these pheromones passed by contact, or circulated through the hive? Specifically the queen pheromones. The reason I ask is that I have had a mean hive that has been next to impossible to requeen. Every method that I have tried has failed. A local master beekeeper suggested starting her in a nuc above the old hive, with a double screen and cutting out queen cells below. I did this 3 weeks ago, and she was accepted above and took off well. He told me that I could now remove the screen, and unite the two. I did that today, and sprayed down all the bees with sugar water. There seemed to be a lot of fighting going on though, and now, I am concerned about the queen. Will the bees below accept the queen? The old hive below has been queenless since April 5. I searched the bees below, and found no queen or eggs. Thanks all! Scott Moser " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: vinegar instead of water Comments: To: Bee-l list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In answer to questions concerning the strength of vinegar, use white vinegar from the grocery which says "5% strength diluted in water" on the label. Spray as fine a mist as possible and don't spray directly but hold a foot or two above the tops of the bars. Bob Young Lindale, TX ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:48:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Amy Thomson Subject: Supersedure cells & Queenrightness Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi there, I'm a brand new beekeeper (barely emerged from my cell!) and I just found and cut out two supersedure cells in my new hive. I know it was a supersedure cell because it was a queen cell in the middle of the upper third of the frame, right on the face. There were also between eight to a dozen swarm cells that I also cut out. I have a number of questions about the supersedure cells: Does the presence of these supersedure cells mean that my hive is not queenright? (I have not yet seen the queen. I'm new and still clumsy, I may have accidentally squished her, or I may just not have seen her.) Should I requeen the hive, or let another supersedure cell form? What if anything, did I do wrong? Information about the hive: It is a starter hive with about 12 frames of brood in brand new Western supers (I'm going with all one size hive boxes). I've had the hive for about two weeks. I'm feeding 1:1 sugar syrup, and the brood pattern looks even, and the bees are filling and drawing the comb. (Bear in mind I'm not an expert here). Bees are emerging, and there seem to be more bees now than there were a week ago. They don't seem particularly aggressive or flighty. I haven't noticed a lot of suspicious hanging about the hive entrance or anything. Many thanks for any advice you can give me! Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 09:32:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: formic acid In-Reply-To: <199905012302.TAA10814@listserv.albany.edu> from "GImasterBK@aol.com" at May 1, 99 06:28:51 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Al: > Formic acid is an organic acid and has little or no effect on metals. Just > be cause of the word "acid", too many people think of burn, destruction, etc. > After all, carbonated water is carbonic ACID. > I'm sorry, but as a metallurgist, I can categorically state that the above is not true. Organic acids tend to be weaker acids than "mineral" acids like sulfuric and hydrochloric acids, but they can still be *very* corrosive. What makes them corrosive are: 1) The availability of free H3O+ ions, which dissolve any oxides that may be coating and protecting the metal surface, and 2) The increased conductivity of the solutions, which opens you up to galvanic corrosion. If the organic acid also makes a soluble salt with the metal (and iron formate is, in fact, a soluble salt), the metal will corrode in the acid even faster. So, in fact, there are excellent reasons to expect formic acid to corrode iron in the hive, and I have seen reports that this is a real problem. Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:24:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Supersedure cells & Queenrightness Comments: cc: amy@jetcity.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/2/99 9:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amy@jetcity.com writes: > Does the presence of these supersedure cells mean that my hive is not > queenright? > (I have not yet seen the queen. I'm new and still clumsy, I may > have accidentally squished her, or I may just not have seen her.) > > Should I requeen the hive, or let another supersedure cell form? > Amy, this is quite common in packages, or after requeening a hive. With all our best efforts, queens are not always fully mated. I've seen many reared queens fail in midsummer. The bees may know this, and they are trying to fix it now, while she still has fertile eggs. My suggestion: trust the bees. Help them do what they want to do, don't fight them and you will have a better chance of success. In my own beekeeping, I intervene only when the bees are failing (didn't successfully requeen), or when their action will obviously be detrimental to my goals (swarm preparation. Where there is doubt about successfull queen mating, I give them a cell or a frame of brood that has eggs (a good reason why newbies should always begin with 2 hives, not one). Where they are preparing to swarm, they are bent upon reproduction and I just don't feel it's worth fighting, so I split the hive. Then, with their reproduction accomplished, they get back to normal work. As far as accidental "squishing the queen," make sure you pull an outer frame first (she's less likely to get rolled), and wean yourself from gloves ASAP (they'll make you clumsy). Good luck on your new venture. May your flowers be full of nectar, and your bees in condition to get it....... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:23:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bruce Murphy Subject: Proper hive ventalation Comments: To: Bee-list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am wondering what is best for venting a hive. I live in the Pacific Northwest I have a inner cover and a telescoping top with no holes or any way for air to pass through. What is the best method? Thanks in advance. I have learned alot from this list. I thank you all. Bruce Murphy mranch@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:28:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Proper hive ventalation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bore a hole in the inner cover near one edge and place some bottlecaps or pebbles on it to provide some space for air movement. Inner covers are usually cut to fit a bee escape in an oval hole-I have never used a bee escape. Putting the hole near one edge lets you use a baggie feeder without covering the hole. An inch or so is fine. Instead of bottlecaps you can leave the entrance reducer between the covers. I usually put it near the front so water runs off the top at the back. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:19:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Sr. Monica Ryan" Subject: Preparing a cell building colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question: A few of us (small time 'Hobbyists'), who discuss our Beekeeping problems together have been puzzling over two issues - separate byt related. To solve the matter once and for all, we would appreciate information from the experts in this field: 1. What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of preparing a cell building colony by using an artificially swarmed colony? AND 2. What are the advantages and disadvantages of preparing a cell building colony using a boosted double chamber? We would be most grateful for any advice, and I say sincerely THANK YOU for help in the past. Sr. M. Catherine. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 15:48:35 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: Proper hive ventalation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I am wondering what is best for venting a hive. I live in the Pacific >Northwest I have a inner cover and a telescoping top with no holes or any >way for air to pass through. What is the best method? Thanks in advance. I >have learned alot from this list. I thank you all. > >Bruce Murphy >mranch@worldnet.att.net Bruce, There are many ways of ventilating a hive. If you don't want to bore holes in your supers there are still ways... 1. Stagger a super so that you leave a small crack on the front an back of it and the super below (worked great in dry West Texas). You have to watch this though as if the crack is big enough for bees to get in and the colony is a small or weak one, they can be robbed dry very quickly. Also if ants are a problem, same goes. If the colony is strong this won't be a problem, and can actually add additional entrances to relieve congestion. 2. Lay a nail (or even a match stick) under two bottom corners on the same side of the inner cover, then cover with the telescoping outer cover. I usually choose the back side of the inner cover to prop up as this allows the air current to go in the entrance, up through and out the opposite side. Positioned this way, slide your outer cover back until it butts up against the front of the inner cover to allow for ventilation, slide it forward to cut off ventilation. In the Pacific NW, with all the rain, this may be a good option. 3. Take window screen and with duct tape, tape it over the oval hole in the inner cover (on the top side of the inner cover). You can then prop up the outer cover with a couple small rocks or blocks of wood an inch or so high. Make sure the outer cover is secured well with a few bricks or heavy rocks on top or a gust of wind will blow it off. Also in West Texas, this worked well when I had trouble with ants sneaking in the open cracks of one hive. The bees will eventually seal the screen mesh over with propolis, but it can be pulled off and rescreened if needed. 4. Buy an Imirie Shim (Brushy Mountain). It is a shim that fits between supers (place high, low or even more than one and where you want it) that has an opening cut into one of its narrow sides. This gives the bees ventilation and a second entrance. I have yet to try one of these but I hear many good things about it (and again, no holes borred). It was developed by one of the subscribers to BEE-L, George Imirie. If you don't mind borring a hole in you supers, go to your hardware store and find plastic caps that will fit either a 1, 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch opening. Once you have some, auger that size into one narrow side of the super, about an inch or so below the hand hold. The reason I mentioned finding the caps first is because eventually you may want to close up the hole for one reason or another. In a very small town once, it took forever to find the right size caps I needed (I used duct tape until then). --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:29:25 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Varroa resistant honey bees In-Reply-To: <199905011522.LAA05778@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harry wrote > With regard to varroa and heat. I understood that varroa mites die if > exposed to a temperature of 45 deg. C. (The temperature might be wrong I > would have to look it up to confirm this) A few years ago now there was a > lot of discussion about heating hives and numerous experiments were carried > out in Germany. It was claimed at the time that exposing the varroa to heat > not only killed the mites on the bees but also those in the cells. Perhaps > new research has proved this wrong but I have not been made aware of it. I had a visit a few years ago from a lady beekeeper from Germany who, while at University, had been involved in the experiments to see if they could heat a hive to kill varroa. She told me that it was possible to do this but that the temperature was very critical if you wanted to kill the varroa and not kill the brood in the hive. The conclusions were that it was possible in a laboratory to do this but that when it came to a field situation, it was not possible to keep the temperature at the critical point where the varroa was killed and the brood was not. The equipment was not available to do this. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:15:47 -0400 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Supersedure cells & Queenrightness In-Reply-To: <199905021622.MAA18428@listserv.albany.edu> On 2 May 99, at 10:24, Pollinator@aol.com wrote: > As far as accidental "squishing the queen," make sure you pull an > outer > frame first (she's less likely to get rolled), and wean yourself from > gloves ASAP (they'll make you clumsy). Depends on how thick your gloves are. They do give confidence to newbie bee keepers, so my advice do what you're comfortable with, and buy a thin pair if you need gloves. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Therapik, soothing aid for stings. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:17:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Why Your Post Did Not Appear on BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Maybe you wrote to BEE-L and did not see your post make the list. If so, you are probably wondering why. As most are aware, I am one of the moderators of this list. The job is shared between a number of us and the idea is that, by having a group of diverse types on different continents, posts should be okayed in almost real-time twenty-four hours a day. And they are. There are four moderators who are very different one from another. One thing we do share is a strong abhorance for 'censorship'. (although the odd post is so rank that all of the moderators turn up their nose at it, and it goes nowhere). So the odds are much better than 100:1 that that is not why your post never made the list. Why I am writing you today, dear friends, is that once or twice a week I see a post that is really quite worthwhile, but it is sent in HTML format, has a nasty long business card attachment, has the vile little virus 'happy.exe' attached or -- most commonly -- has huge long quotes from a previous submission included. Usually the writer is unaware that he or she is sending HTML or business cards or happy.exe, or is unable to figure out how not to quote everything in the previous submission. I guess we are all learning... It bothers me that I cannot okay such posts, because I know the writer had good intentions and wanted to contribute. Due the huge volume and the fact that we all are very busy, we usually ignore such posts and and hope that the writer figures out after a while why the post died and re-submits it. If the post is exceptionally good or timely, sometimes a moderator will write the author and explain the problem and beg that the author re- submit. Anyhow, that's how it works. The periodic posting of guidelines (coming shortly) is worth keeping handy when you are writing for the list. And I hope you do write, because the reason that most of you did not see your post on this list is that you did not write one -- yet. allen --- Some Background: The reason the list moved to moderation from open posting -- after much soul-searching on the part of members -- is is that SPAM, binaries, HTML posts and long quotes were beginning to clog the logs and overwhelm the membership. Occasional flame wars, although very mild by 'net standards, periodically offended the vast majority of members who are here for the bees, not tomfoolery. Our logs are a precious resource and constitute our FAQ. Moderation has spared list members SPAM, chain letters, binaries, HTML files, a couple of pointless flames, and a lot of huge quotes followed by 'Mee Too... and the logs are now much easier to read when you wish to research a question. --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L "key phrase" Substitute several words for "key phrase" above. and use the double quotes to exclude hits on the individual words in the phrase. Single words do not need quotes. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:21:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Posting Guidelines, monthly reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Guideline for BEE-L Submissions 1. Do not include excessive quotes of previous submissions. If you must quote previous postings, include only what is necessary to make your point. Submissions that in- clude the entirety of previous posts will be rejected without comment or notice. 2. Submit your posts as TEXT ONLY! There are many sub- scribers whose mailers will not interpret text markup languages and to them submissions which include markup characters (such as HTML) appear as gibberish. Sub- missions to BEE-L must be in the lowest common denomina- tor for all subscribers, which is TEXT ONLY! Posts submitted to BEE-L in markup languages will be rejected without notice. 3. Binary file attachments are not allowed on BEE-L. Simi- lar to markup languages, many subscribers have mailers not able to decipher binary file attachments (such as MS Word attachments). Submissions with binary attachments are never approved by the list moderators, most times without notice. Suggestions for binary attachments in- clude deciphering them at your end to include in the text of your submission or making them available at your site and advertising their availability on BEE-L. Please verify your URLs. If detected, submissions with invalid or nonexistant URLs will not be approved, possi- bly without notice. 4. Do not send personal responses to the entire list. If Bea Keepr posts something to the list that inspires you to write to Bea, DO NOT send your personal response to BEE-L, send it to Bea! Only send to the list that which you want read by everyone. Submissions to the list that appear to be personal responses are rarely approved by the list moderators, often without notice. 5. Trolling (name calling, baiting, incivility) is not tol- erated. Heated discussions are allowed, after all we're beekeepers and may not always agree. But as Rodney King put it, "Can't we all just get along?" This is a grey area up to the discretion of the moderators, but offend- ing submissions will be rejected without notice. 6. Do not send LISTSERV service requests to the list. Re- quests of LISTSERV for list services must be sent to: LISTSERV@listserv.albany.edu LISTSERV service requests sent to BEE-L are never ap- proved by the list moderators, no notice is given and the requested service is not provided. 7. Submissions to BEE-L must be related to the "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology". SPAM is NEVER approved! Furthermore, submissions must be "Informed"! BEE-L is not intended to be a substitute for beginning texts on keeping bees. If your question is a basic beekeeping question, it has probably been asked and answered on BEE-L before, perhaps many times. Answers to frequently asked questions may be found by searching the BEE-L archives. Submissions of frequently asked questions may be approved or not, with or without notice. Approved frequently asked questions are often met with cries of "Search the Archives!". Cries of "Search the Archives!" are sometimes approved to drive home the point, but rarely. 8. Submissions to BEE-L should not contain misinformation. Although slow to admit it, the moderators do not know it all. However, blatant misinformation is rejected with- out notice. Realizing there is a fine line between new, thought provoking ideas and misinformation the modera- tors strive for leniency in their judgment and prefer to err on the side of thought provoking ideas. Reader be- ware that if you read it here it ain't necessarily so! 9. BEE-L is not a marketplace. Product reviews are wel- come. Product announcements are tolerated. Repeated announcements and marketing are less welcome proportion- ately to their frequency. Advertisements may be re- jected without notice. 10. Lastly, long signature files are discouraged. A guide- line of five lines is suggested. Life histories and driving directions to your doorstep or place of business are strongly discouraged and are often rejected without notice. The BEE-L moderators and subscribers thank you in advance for adhering to these guidelines. We hope you find your BEE-L experience informative, engaging, educational and most importantly, fun! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:41:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Guy F. Miller" Subject: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think I'm ready to try it. What is it? Is it something one gets in the grocery store or the drug store? I don't need a barrel, since I only have 6 hives. Does anone have a trade name I could look for? Thanks Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." Charlottesville VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:47:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RockyTop Farm Subject: Swarm cells Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Hello All, I am a novice to the world of beekeeing, hence this question. My one and only hive is comprised of two deeps. I reversed them at the start of dandelion season this year. If I were to find swarm cells, would they be more apt to appear in one or both hive bodies? Thank you for all the great information and encouragement, Barb Miller ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:27:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Frey Subject: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Been readin and learnin here for awhile now i am in ned of some help, 14 days ago i installed three new 3 lb packages in three brand new hives (just startin if it isnt obvious) I installed them each in there own deep hive body by dumping in and then replacing the center three frames hung the queen cage in between and closed them up, cept the first one which i accidentlly opened the wrong end of the queen cage the queen appeared to go into the hive with all the other bees so i just closed it up.over the weekend with jittery hands i lightly smoked them and went into the hives for the first time what a releif to see so many happy bees that didnt care as i moved them around and started to really learn bee keeping 2 of the new hives are 7 frame drawn with 3 to 4 frames of brood + pollen and honey (from my relentless feeding of sugar syrup)the 3rd which is the one that the queen was quik released had lots of bees and was drawn out on at least 6 frames had pollen and honey stores but allas i could not find eggs/larvor capped brood as i saw in the other two????? Help please Is my queen MIA or is she slow getting started?? From what i have read i feel she is gone but the bees didnt drift away????I am prepared to order a replacement queen so i dont loose to much time in this hive and since the bees are still in it? Any and all advise is appreciated Thanks in Advance Garry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:35:06 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: hive scale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was told by a fellow beekeeper he had seen plans for building a hive scale in a bee publication, but could not remember when or where. If anyone knows where I could get a copy (preferably posted on the net) I would appreciate it. Bob Young LIndale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:56:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Swarm cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/3/99 7:09:11 AM EST, RockyTop_Farm@webtv.net writes: > If I were to find swarm cells, would they > be more apt to appear in one or both hive bodies? > Usually on the bottom of the box with the most brood. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:04:31 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Swarm cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RockyTop Farm wrote: > If I were to find swarm cells, would they > be more apt to appear in one or both hive bodies? Swarm cells can appear anywhere. The most common position is at the lower edge of the frames of the top hive body, so when I'm checking for them I always tip up that hive body and scan the frame bottoms. If I see them, and need to cut them, each and every frame must be carefully examined, both on the sides and bottom. Often clusters of bees will cover a swarm cell on the side of a frame, so much careful diligence is required for this job. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:03:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: Drawing foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ive run out of shallow supers with drawn comb. Ive got full honey supers of the hives, and Im not in a position to extract at this time, Is it possible to put a shallow super with just foundation on top or the bottom of the honey supers???This year has started way earlier than anticipated. Any help would be appreciated Tnx Walt in South Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:22:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Attila31@AOL.COM Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drug stores sell mineral oil for laxatives. I think that would work. A pint cost less than 2$. Good luck it looks promising. Use stiky boards to see if really works. Attila ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:42:50 -0500 Reply-To: sandro.manchego@mailexcite.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sandro Manchego Revilla Subject: Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear friends My name is Sandro Manchego Revilla, I am beekeeper from Arequipa-Peru. I want to know more about the Jenter Method (Cell-plug Queen Rearing), if you have some information please write me I'd like to know how develop the queen rearing because I can't to eliminate the Chalkbrood and I need to change my queens in my hives. This pathology is very strong recently, 2 or 3 years ago we don't have it and this year was terrible. Please help me. Greetings from Peru Sandro Manchego Revilla .................................................................. e-mail: pmancheg@ucsm.edu.pe Address: Chancay 211 Mariano Melgar Arequipa Peru ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:32:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garry, Don't fret bud. Take a frame of eggs from one of the other colonies, shake the bees free over top of the colony so that fall back home and quickly ( don't rush we just don't want to chill the eggs) place it into the colony you can't find eggs. Place an empty frame back into the donor colony to keep up the 10 frames. If the queen is present they will develop normally. If she is not, they will draw emergency cells. Of course, if you ordered the bees with a marked queen this is an excellent time to learn how to spot her. Keep feedin' sugar water until they will take no more and consider a pollen supplement. Tell us where you are and maybe someone is familiar with a beekeeper or club in your area. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Garry Frey wrote: > the new hives are 7 frame drawn with 3 to 4 > frames of brood + pollen and honey (from my relentless feeding of sugar > syrup)the 3rd which is the one that the queen was quik released had lots of > bees and was drawn out on at least 6 frames had pollen and honey stores but > allas i could not find eggs/larvor capped brood as i saw in the other two????? > Help please Is my queen MIA or is she slow getting started?? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:10:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Frey Subject: Re: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i am in Lancaster,PA the advise of brood from a good hive with young eggs has its appeal however i dont want to looose the mponth and a half to raise a new queen i am told out flow has started and it ends by mid june...my new strong hives have backed off eating syrup and are forageing nector i presume they are very strong but not consuming sugar syrup as they where a week ago?? Any thoughts on introducing a new Queen such as in a nuc for a few days and allow several more days to confirm queenlessness in the weak hive? Garry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:25:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: Swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear List: HELP! I'm fairly new to beekeeping and I have a question. I collected 7 swarms the other day. These swarms were very large, two boxes full of bee. I collected them and left them over night to make sure all of them got in. When I came back the next morning they were all in the hive. Except for the few that were flying around. I brought them home. It's been about a week and I'm looking in the hives now and I don't see any eggs being laid. It looks to me like I have boxes full of bees (on every frame) and no queen. but there must be a queen because a swarm wouldn't leave without one right? I keep 9 frames in each box and every frame is full. These swarms were huge. How can I make sure I have a queen, and that the normal processes of a hive are happening. Thanks for any help. Also, the frames that I have in the hives are all nice brood comb that I used last year, with a couple in each hive having honey on them... Mark_Gosswiller@bc.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:01:33 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: smoking them bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre reported a specially strong tobacco smoke used in Europe to knock down varroa. This technique was used to detect varroa in colonies in the UK before Bayvarol strips were approved for use. The problem was that the amount of smoke needed to give a good effect on varroa also left a good-sized pile of bees on the hive floor. Most of the bees recovered, but the method seemed to be a bit severe! Once Bayvarol (and now Apistan) were approved the method seems to have fallen out of use. John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper pencaemawr@bigfoot.com If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:38:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: New Hive Question Garry writes "the advise of brood from a good hive with young eggs has its appeal however i dont want to looose the mponth and a half to raise a new queen..." I found last week that one of what I considered my best colonies this year that I had started from a swarm was queenless without a sign of eggs or brood ever having been in it to dirty up the new combs. The "brood pattern" was very nice but just empty cells where brood should have been. Too bad I didn't get a queen with that one because I like the "work ethic" and even temperament of these bees an awful lot. I didn't see any evidence of drone layers either. I combined this hive with a 3 frame nucleus that has a laying queen on Saturday for the same reasons you gave. Although my experienced beekeeper friend suggested I just add a frame containing eggs and young larvae and let them raise their own queen, now this colony has the chance of becoming one of my best producers this year. I think I've done the right thing for the results I want to have. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:35:23 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: Drawing foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Ive run out of shallow supers with drawn comb. >Is it possible to put a shallow super with just foundation on top or the >bottom of the honey supers??? >Any help would be appreciated Tnx Walt in South Carolina Yes. If a flow is on, they will draw the foundation. If a flow is not on, they won't (and may chew up the foundation). I hesitate to say which method of supering (top or bottom) is better as it seems 50% of the beekeepers do it one way, the other 50% the other. Personally I bottom super, but that is strictly a matter of choice. Commercial beekeepers usually top super (which makes sense), but many others have their own reasons, which may in fact be better in their area. --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:23:27 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Musashi wrote: > Garry writes "the advise of brood from a good hive with young eggs has its > appeal however I dont want to loose the month and a half to raise a new > queen..." > > I found last week that one of what I considered my best colonies this year that > I had started from a swarm was queenless without a sign of eggs or brood ever > I combined this hive with a 3 frame nucleus that has a laying queen on > Saturday for the same reasons you gave. Although my experienced beekeeper > friend suggested I just add a frame containing eggs and young larvae and let > them raise their own queen, Hmmm, are you sure the bees weren't in the process of superseding? And had a virgin running around somewhere. I believe that's the reason you were suggested to use the brood frame trick to find out if there was a queen or not. Far too often people panic when they don't find a queen in the hive. Just because they don't see her or any eggs, it doesn't mean the hive got to be queenless! Sometimes both the old and the new queens are present in the hive during supersedure until the new queen is properly mated and starts laying. But often the virgin kills the old queen, or the bees dispose of her, so there only is one queen in the hive. When this happens there can be 2-3 weeks without eggs in the hive. That old trick to take a frame of eggs or larvae for a first test isn't all that bad and can save a lot of confusion to beekeepers...... -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:14:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Swarm prevention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, Putting a QE under a hive is a short term emergency measure only. The bees won't like it and neither will you. Drones will be caught by the neck and die. A drone escape is also a queen escape. Some years ago a chap called Paul Mann had an idea of using a QE in a special floor board to divert a departing queen and therefore the swarm into an empty hive alongside the potential swarmer. I made up such a board but never used it so don't know whether it works. If you're interested I may be able to probe the inner recesses of my memory for details. I suggest the best way forward for you is to make artificial swarms. If you don't want to increase your stocks on site put the "swarm" back on the floor with the parent colony containing the brood and any queen cells above it separated by a "split board". Re-unite them when the new queen is laying or run them as a 2 queen system for a while. Reduce to 1 box at the end of the season. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:14:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Average sting reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nobody is average! At the beginning of most seasons I take 2 days swelling up and 2 more days deflating. Late in the season I wonder whether I was sting or just caught my finger on a splinter. On very rare occasions I get Hives - all over reaction, itching, sweating, slight palpitations. This season - so far- my reactions have been slighter than usual, possibly because I collected one or two stings during the winter. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:14:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although my experience with formic acid is limited I think you will get rust. I don't know that stainless steel is the answer - it isn't stain proof: it just stains less. Perhaps you should try coating exposed metal work with petroleum jelly before using acid. I am playing with using nylon monofilament fishing line instead of metal wire in foundation. So far, so good. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:56:08 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: hive scale Comments: To: boby@lakecountry.net Hi Bob If you send a msg addressed to weighing@beekeeping.co.nz (not to this list!) you'll get back, automatically, a bibliography of various methods of weighing beehives. You'd then need to chase some of them up, but as most were in such as Gleanings and the American Bee Journal, a local library should be able to get you a copy. > I was told by a fellow beekeeper he had seen plans for building a hive > scale in a bee publication, but could not remember when or where. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nick.wallingford@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:25:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Garry, I'd order a new queen ASAP. I've herd of free released queens being accepted during a good nectar flow, but not this early in the year (at least ours hasn't started here in PA). The other option is to give then a frame of eggs from the other hives and let them make a queen, but you will loose three weeks or more of bee production at this vital time of the year. Good luck! Jerry in PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:55:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Midnight Bees Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I know someone can help me with first hand knowledge about this. This year, I decided to try a few different types of queens in hopes of finding a breed that works well here. I ordered a "Midnight" queen to try them. I couldnt find much information on them except that they are derived from dark races, and are supposed to be great producers and gentle. Can someone tell me about their tendency to swarm, propolis use, possible drawbacks, etc. Thanks for your help. Scott Moser Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:50:58 +0100 Reply-To: pln@wanadoo.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre LE PABIC Subject: Re: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees Comments: To: Harry Goudie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Harry Goudie a écrit: > I like the idea of the mites falling through spaces in the bottom of the > hive but I wonder if it may be possible that the feral colonies are > surviving because of swarming. One of the differences between a feral and > domestic colony is that the latter is managed to prevent swarming. If the > swarm clusters for any length of time it may be that the temperature inside > the cluster is sufficiently high to either kill or at least make the varroa > uncomfortable and fall off. The swarm may then start off in a new site with > comparatively few varroa. > I read somewhere about a man who had a swarm land on his head. One of his > comments when asked about his experience later was that it was very hot > inside the swarm! > Harry > http://www.luichartwoollens.freeserve.co.uk A few years ago, I read an article in an issue of the French edition of the “Scientific American” about swarming. The author had measured temperature inside the cluster from the center to the periphery. As far as I remember, he found that the center temperature was rather hot, but not more that inside the brood chamber. Therefore, it should not be harmful for varroa mites. Moreover, when colonies are treated against varroas mites, it remains only a few of them but 6 months later, you have to treat again. Jean-Pierre ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:53:57 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Crabapple pollinizors for bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Does anyone know the nectar/pollen comparison we should expect from Crabapples "Indian Summer" and "Snowdrift"? Either will do as pollenizers for a small new orchard of Gala apples, but I'm looking toward the interests of my bees in deciding between the two. Thanks for your attention, Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:02:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garry, You don't say how the other queens were released, but if there was a significant delay you might not see any larvae or sealed brood. That does not neccesarily mean no queen, just a delay in her release. An experienced beekeeper in your area would be very helpful. It is easy to find a queen in a new package (almost always) once you have some experience. Dr. Barbor, I think you missed the fact that Garry was speaking of installing a package. I have routinely released queens directly into new packages for about 18 years. Never lost a queen yet. Of course I only install about 4 queens a year. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:40:52 +0100 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: hive scale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Bob Young Date: 03 May 1999 13:35 Subject: hive scale >I was told by a fellow beekeeper he had seen plans for building a hive >scale in a bee publication If anyone knows where I could get a copy I would appreciate it. >Bob Young >LIndale,TX The basic principle of the hive scale which I use is an ordinary bathroom scales. Use an eke adapted by covering the top with timber with a hole cut in the timber to allow the dial to be read from below. You also have to cut a hole in the wall of the eke to allow for the periscope. The hive ( with a re-inforced floor) is rested on top of the scales. The scales are read by making a periscope with a lath of timber and two small mirrors. To allow light to get to the scales so that you can read the hive must be on a stand, or you can shine a torch through the periscope and illuminated the dial in that manner. The Devon Association's Magazine "Beekeeping" had an article on this some years ago. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:07:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Attila31@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The corrosion problem maybe solved by using plastic fondation and coat the top of the nails with a small brush with lenseed oil. I never tried it but worth a try.Attila ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:05:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Konopka Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone--to begin, I am not only a beginning beekeeper and a first time poster to the group, but I am also a rather computer illiterate computer user--I'm not even sure how to tell if my post is in text only format or html format, so if my post is rejected, I'd appreciate it if someone could just tell me how to submit it right--anyway, here's my quick, beginners question: My friend and I installed our Italian package bees in 1 deep body with fresh foundation on April 17th--we went back a few days later just to make sure the queen got out of her cage, and then we didn't really "go through" the hive until the 27th--the bees were busily working on drawing out 5 of the 10 frames, though none of the 5 were completely drawn out--we did also locate the queen--here are my 2 questions 1. It was the 5 frames on the left side of the box that the bees were working on, while none of the 5 on the right were being touched--will the bees move to these on their own, or could it be that they've only been working on the left ones because that is where we have the entrance feeder? 2. We noticed cells filled with sugar water and cells filled with what appears to be the brown pollen substitute we gave them when we installed them, but we didn't notice anything looking like eggs or larva--was it just too early to look for these or is there a problem--or perhaps we didn't look carefully enough any help would be appreciated--thanks Chris Konopka Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:57:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: KingBeeJRV@AOL.COM Subject: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Friends. I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation. Having never used plastic before, which is the better choice, Rite cell or Pierco? John CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:02:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: New Hive Question As I wrote earlier that there was no sign that there was ever a queen in the hive, I forgot to mention one detail I noticed. There were cup cells all over the place as if the bees had "hope" that somehow an egg would magically appear from somewhere. The colony started from a swarm. The open cells in the "brood area" were not dark enough to ever have been used even once in my estimation. What I couldn't figure out was how the bees did such a good job, even without a queen. There was not a single queen cell in the hive, only cup cells scattered throughout it. Having said that, I thank P-O Gustafsson for the suggestion to try the frame with eggs and young brood first to see if they start making queen cells to know for sure. In my particular case, I was confident enough to conclude I had never had a queen and to skip that step. I've made mistakes before and this may be one of them, but I'll report back on how things turn out. This evening I incorporated the swarm colony and the 3 frame nucleus together into a single hive body and put on some empty supers. Our main honey flow will be starting here soon and I have great hopes for this particular hive now. I think it may turn out to be my best one. I'll be embarassed to admit failure, but if I got it wrong, I'll let everyone know and learn from my experience to be more careful next time. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:48:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Crabapple pollinizors for bees? Comments: To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/4/99 2:39:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com writes: > Does anyone know the nectar/pollen comparison we should expect from > Crabapples "Indian Summer" and "Snowdrift"? > > Either will do as pollenizers for a small new orchard of Gala apples, > but I'm looking toward the interests of my bees in deciding between the > two. They'll love them both. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:03:52 -0500 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wtroyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: Corrosion and Formic Acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are a few thoughts concerning corrosion of steel nails and other parts used in hive bodies which are being treated with formic acid. 1. Assuming formic acid is approved for your area, use strictly in accord with manufacturers directions. 2. Keep the actual formic acid material from contacting nails directly. Remember, nails in hive bodies are usually embedded inside wood, so they can not come into direct contact with the formic acid. Thus, the nails should not corrode rapidly. 3. Items such as frame spacers and exposed wires appear to be more exposed to fumes. Consider using all plastic frames. Steel spacers are inexpensive and can easily be replaced. 4. Use dovetailed hive boxes with glued joints. These will remain reasonably intact even if there are no nails present. 5. Consider coating steel nails to protect them from corrosion; simply painting the hive boxes should suffice. 6. Stainless parts should work providing the correct grade of stainless steel is selected, but, the cost is relatively high. 7. Consider trying formic acid on one hive at first, or consider using other methods of mite control if the formic acid method appears too risky. Disclaimer - Use this information strictly at your own risk. Wade -- Web: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com Mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:27:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Formic Acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Although it's been many years since I cracked a chemestry book, and though I hate to disagree with George Imirie, based on conversations I've had with Bob Stevens (owner of Betterbee, licensed distributor of gel- formic) I doubt that linseed oil or petroleum jelly or stainless steel, - not even snake oil(!) is going to help much with preventing corrision of exposed metal in your hives. If I recall correctly (and we all know how well I recall), about the only thing formic acid doesn't eat through is teflon! The good news is that with PROPER USE, there won't be a lot of formic acid in your hives if/when you use it and if/when you use it, it won't be for prolonged periods. YES, formic will hasten the depretiation of your equipment. NO, formic acid will not disolve your equipment before your eyes. And in the meantime, formic acid WILL kill both mite species. Aaron Morris - thinnking this is the real world, nothing's perfect :( ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:41:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Swarm prevention MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Using a queen excluder will not work. The old queen will stop her egg production and slim down enough to go through the excluder. I would make a split. If the hive if far enough in their planning to swarm, there is nothing you can do, but hope to catch them. My hive swarmes three days ago and passed through four yards before coming to rest in a low branch. My neighbors were not too thrilled but a couple of jars of honey to each helped. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:49:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John: I get plastic from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm through the mail. The number is 1-800-BEESWAX I also deal with Ed Weiss out of Wilton, but he does not stock plastic, only wood. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: Formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Although my experience with formic acid is limited I think you will get rust. Lots of discussion about formic acid and rust. However, most of these comments have words like 'I think'. Has anyone who has used formic acid in the past noticed any unusual amount of rust? I have used formic acid for several years and have not noticed any unusual rusting. I also suggest that the fumes are in the hive for a relatively short time so maybe this is significant. Let's go further. Even if the rusting is increased - so what? I fail to see what could go wrong. This treatment is only applied to brood chambers so excluders and frames that might be extracted are not at risk. Even with rust I would not expect the comb to fall out of the frame or the frame to fall apart. Yet there appears to be a lot of concern about rust. What am I missing? Eric Abell Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:40:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: hive scale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A hive scale can also be made by adapting a hive stand so that the back or front of the hive sits on the part of a bathroom scale where human feet would go. This measures half the weight of the hive and leaves the dial out where it can be read by the beekeeper. A set-up like this was described, with photos, in _Gleanings_ maybe twenty years ago. If a beekeeper wants to find out where the bees are getting nectar, keeping an eye on what is blooming while recording the weight of the hive is an easy way to find out. In southeastern Pennsylvania, the graph of hive weight shoots up when tulip poplar trees (_Liriodendron tulipfera_) bloom. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:33:14 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: No Subject (New Start) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >My friend and I installed our Italian package bees in 1 deep body with fresh >foundation on April 17th--we went back a few days later just to make sure >the queen got out of her cage, and then we didn't really "go through" the >hive until the 27th--the bees were busily working on drawing out 5 of the 10 >frames, though none of the 5 were completely drawn out--we did also locate >the queen--here are my 2 questions > >1. It was the 5 frames on the left side of the box that the bees were >working on, while none of the 5 on the right were being touched--will the >bees move to these on their own, or could it be that they've only been >working on the left ones because that is where we have the entrance feeder? Yes to both. They started drawing the foundation closest to the entrance feeder first (why walk to the other side of the hive when all you have is foundation there too), and as they work on drawing the foundation they will move over and throughout the super. >2. We noticed cells filled with sugar water and cells filled with what >appears to be the brown pollen substitute we gave them when we installed >them, but we didn't notice anything looking like eggs or larva--was it just >too early to look for these or is there a problem--or perhaps we didn't look >carefully enough >Chris Konopka >Pennsylvania You were correct on this one also with regards to the sugar water and pollen substitute. Eventually you will notice them taking natural pollen over the substitute as they prefer the real thing. As far as eggs or larva, you may have missed these. The eggs are tiny, but can be found in the very bottom of the cells that the bees are drawing (the queen won't wait until the cells are fully drawn before she starts laying in them). The larva hatch from the eggs three days later. Therefore, if your inspection was on day 10 of a fresh start, there would only be eggs or tiny larva, and these you'll have to look close for. We all start somewhere Chris, whether it be with computers, bees, or life. Good luck with your hive! --David Scribner ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:32:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) Plindena from arc1a35.bf.sover.net [209.198.80.35] 209.198.80.35 Tue, 4 May 1999 12:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Calendar item MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is an item for your calendar: "Charles Andros, former NH/VT Apiary Inspector, will hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3 PM on Saturday, May 15, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. Look for the "BEE" sign on the west side. Topics of discussion: finding queens, requeening and 2-queen colonies, pollen collection, swarm control, supering, and bee venom therapy. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. Rain date: May 16. To register by email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:38:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeff May Subject: Re: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John: I have used pierco plastic frames and foundation with mixed results....Some hives draw it out ok while others refuse to touch it...I have since just been using the old fashion wooden ware as the bees always draw this out for me (for them..lol). I had gotten these pierco products thru Brush Mountain. Don't know if this helped you any Jeff May Granite Ledge L.L.C. 162 Shore Drive Guilford, CT. ----Original Message----- From: KingBeeJRV@aol.com To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:24 AM Subject: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation >Hello Bee Friends. >I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation. Having never used >plastic before, which is the better choice, Rite cell or Pierco? >John >CT > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:08:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: New Hive Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As I wrote earlier that there was no sign that there was ever a queen in the > hive, I forgot to mention one detail I noticed. There were cup cells all over > the place as if the bees had "hope" that somehow an egg would magically > appear from somewhere. You just said the "magic words", cell cups all over........ ;-) That's a pretty reliable (if there is anything reliable with bees...) sign of queenless hive. Often combined with a nervous behaviour among the bees, sometimes roaring. Just want to mention what I often do if I suspect there is a virgin running around (virgins often hides on the bottom board and generally try to make it as hard as possible for the beekeeper) and I want to introduce a queen of known origin instead. I use the excluder as a sieve. Just put a box, with or without frames, on the bottom board. An excluder on the box, and another empty box on that. Then shake bees from the frames into the empty box and smoke them down through the excluder. All drones and queens will bee found in the empty box. Doesn't take more than a few minutes, a lot quicker than looking all over the frames...... Disadvantage; bees will get "slightly" upset over that procedure and not work much more that day. So not so good during a flow, but if you want to find that queen...... And, as it has been found necessary to point out again, virgins DO NOT get through excluders easier than mated queens. The limit is the thorax (middle part of body) that prevent queens, and drones, from getting trough. Of course there will be some tiny queen that makes it, but she will go trough even when mated. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 14:08:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: harold37@EAGNET.COM Subject: Re: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, I am 99% Pierco but would not reccomend any special type. That is up to the individual. Harold -----Original Message----- From: KingBeeJRV@aol.com To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:24 AM Subject: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation >Hello Bee Friends. >I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation. Having never used >plastic before, which is the better choice, Rite cell or Pierco? >John >CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:41:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Requeening With Double Screen Boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, There have been a lot of posts dealing with requeening, using some type of hive division. Sometimes I will divide a colony by taking one hive body off and setting it up somewhere else. The field bees will return to the parent colony and the split will be largely comprised of young bees that will accept a new queen or do a fairly good job raising their own. However I don't always want second colony, then I will use a double screen and make the split in place in order to requeen. This is especially good in early spring when the nights are still cold and the heat from the parent colony will warm the nuc. The method I use is fairly simple but requires two pieces of equipment; a queen excluder and double screen division board. I will remove two or three frames of brood from the colony and gently shake or brush off all the bees and place the frames in an empty hive body. I try to replace them with drawn comb which gives the parent queen more room to lay. I usually take frames that have the majority of the cells capped hopefully with a few that are ready to hatch. If I want the bees to raise a queen I use at least one with eggs or a swarm cell if I find one. The frames should have some uncapped brood but they should be predominantly capped. I then place a queen excluder on top of the parent colony and the new hive body above that. Young house/nurse bees will head up to the brood above the excluder. A few hours later I will come back and replace the queen excluder with the double screen. I am sure that the queen is still below and the bees above are young and won't fly back to the parent colony. The next day I will introduce the new (caged) queen. Eventually more frames will be added to the hive body and the when the new colony is strong the screen board can be replaced with the queen excluder (for a two-queen system) or allow them to merge. Most often the queen on the top will be the survivor. If something goes wrong anywhere along the way the parent colony is still functioning. The big drawback to this is the number of excluders and screen boards required. If you want to do 10 or 20 colonies at a time you would have to invest over $300 in additional equipment. The average price of double screen, with shipping, is over $15. To me they are a valuable tool and worth having around. I am a "pack rat" by nature and tend to save everything. All of my screen boards are made from scrap materials. My favorite method, and I believe the simplest way to make one, is to convert an old inner cover. I simply cut a 5 x 8 inch hole in the center and cover both sides with 1/8 inch or smaller mesh hardware cloth (metal screen). I have salvaged some screen from old bee packages. I then take strips of wood 1/2 x 3/4 inch and nail it around the edge of the screens and also around the edge of the cover on the shallow side. I then make two 45 degree cuts about 2 inches apart in the strip, drive a small nail in the center of the 2 inch piece to create an entrance that you can open or close. You can do this at all four sides if you like. I also like to slip a small piece of wood between the center of the two screens to ensure they don't touch. If you need one or two it is probably not worth the effort, so you can just buy them. If you need to make a number of these from scratch then you are better off starting with 1/4 inch plywood. But, if you would like to make just a few the inner cover conversion works well. Actually you can buy new inner covers for about 1/3 the price of a double screen and convert them. It can be a good rainy day or winter project. Try a few, it only costs some time. You can also make some really good nuc boxes by cutting up old hive bodies or full depth supers. You just need two good corners on the same (long) side. Now if I could just figure out why supers are slightly larger (~1/2 inch) then the nearest size piece of dimensional lumber ( 1x10, 1x6, etc.) forcing you to use the next larger size. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:34:16 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Varroa Resistant Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > it may be that the temperature inside >>the cluster is sufficiently high to either kill or at least make the varroa >>uncomfortable and fall off > >Has anyone tested for temperature inside the hive as a possible prevention? The Beekeeper's Quarterly, Spring 1994 contained a description of a heat treatment method used by Stanislav Muhtarov of Uzbekistan to control varroa. The bees (except for the queen) were shaken from the frames into a mesh drum, sized so that the bees are unable to escape but varroa can pass through the holes. The drum is placed in a heated cabinet controlled at 48 C., and turned to prevent the bees from clustering. The cylinder remains in the cabinet until the mites no longer fall, usually 8-10 minutes. After treatment the drum is placed in a sheltered spot until the bees settle before being returned to the hive. The Beekeepers Quarterly is published by Northern Bee Books e-mail jeremy@recordermail.demon.co.uk John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper pencaemawr@bigfoot.com If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:05:00 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: formic acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello George: You said >Formic acid is an organic acid and has little or no effect on metals. Just >be cause of the word "acid", too many people think of burn, destruction, etc. > After all, carbonated water is carbonic ACID. Carbonated water is a solution of carbon dioxide in water under pressure, and although commonly called carbonic acid, is only slightly acidic. I am concerned that your comment implying that organic acids are innocuous might lead beekeepers to treat it casually. In fact, both formic and acetic acids (used to sterilise hive equipment) in their concentrated forms used by beekeepers present a significant hazard to health, and should be handled with the care suggested by Al. I believe both will rust metallic hive equipment, not only nails, but also excluders and metal runners. I can confirm this from personal experience with acetic acid, although I have not yet used formic acid. By the way, diluted acetic acid is more commonly known as vinegar, but don't be deceived! John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper, and retired chemist. pencaemawr@bigfoot.com If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:19:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "bill_daniels@bellsouth.net" Subject: Any Predatory Mite Research? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recent issue of the _North Carolina Pest News_ (http://ipmwww.ncsu.edu/current_ipm/99PestNews/99News2/fruitveg.html) mentions the use of predatory mites against the strawberry spider mite. Has anyone heard of research or attention given to this sort of pest management for varroa or tracheal mites? Bill Daniels "Rank Beginner" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:47:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Scott E. Brooks" Subject: Swarm Behavior? Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have two colonies of bees recently split off existing healthy, = productive hives. Since setting up these new hives about a month ago, = we have either had one hive swarm without the queen, or another swarm = has invaded that hive. The truth of what happened may never be = determined. We still have the marked queen that was introduced into the = hive at the time of the split. But we have been seeing (and removing) a = lot of queen cups and even fully capped queen cells. Some of them have = been of the supercedure type up in the middle of the comb and some of = them have been of the swarm type down at the bottom of the frame. We = have given this hive another "Illinois" sized box of foundation to pull = (under the excluder) which they have pulled at what was at first an = alarming rate to me (a beginning beekeeper). Last night about 11:00 as = I came home from work, I noticed a small swarm-looking cluster of bees, = about the size of a baseball hanging from the front of the bottom board. = I took a stick and raked them off. They were very "clingy" but as I = shook them off the stick, they dispersed. No queen was in the cluster. = Tonight as I came home I observed the same thing, only now both hives = were involved. Has anyone else observed this kind of behavior? Is this = a prelude to a Swarm? Please help if you can. Thanks, Scott E. Brooks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 21:27:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sondra H Schmidt Subject: Message from Internet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to ask one of the BEE-L experts to give me some guidance. I am a second year beekeeper. This spring, when I opened my two hives, both still had capped honey. I have not learned how to find the queen, so after a brief foray inside, looking for her, I just put on a queen excluder and another nuc and closed up the hive. Now, I'm worried that the hive will not have enough room for brood and may swarm. As it stands now, I have two deeps on each, a queen excluder on each, and a medium super on each. What do you think? What would you recommend. Sondra ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:58:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Good Quality Queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I attended a demonstration last Sunday of bees which have been bred among other things for docility. To say that I was amazed when I compared the temperament of these bees with that of my own is an understatement. Ten colonies were handled by bare handed and short sleeved beekeepers (including this beekeeper), and two or three stings received at the most. No bouncing off the veils, or following. You could have had a garden party beside the apiary. I immediately ordered a queen (all he could give me due to the demand). These bees have been bred in an area in Southern Ireland where hundreds of square miles have been largely denuded of all but the bees I saw, thus virtually guaranteeing the purity of the matings. When I get my queen and she starts producing workers I will hopefully have a colony much like those I saw. Fair enough. But in due course, this queen will generate daughter queens which will then mate with every Tom Dick and Harry in my area including drones from my present aggressive colonies, and from the colonies of other beekeepers over which I have no control at all. It seems to me to be a bit like getting a bottle of fine wine, and slowly adulterating it with poor wine - at the end of the day you end up with poor wine. Do I then just get a reprieve from the aggression and then the situation slowly reverts to the way it started?. Or must I keep on buying in these good queens to guarantee my freedom from aggression?. I realise that this is a much discussed subject, but right now I am confused about it. What do the members of the list think?. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:26:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Rollins Subject: Re: Message from Internet to Sondra MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome to the world of Beekeeping Sondra; If you haven't, I would reverse the bottom two supers. The bees have moved up during the winter, and the bottom super is most likley empty. This should give them plenty of space. Joe Rollins SW Misssissippi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:23:09 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens In-Reply-To: <199905051100.HAA16158@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tom Barrett writes: > ... I immediately ordered a queen (all he could give me due to the demand)... > > But in due course, this queen will generate daughter queens which will then > mate with every Tom Dick and Harry in my area including drones from my > present aggressive colonies, and from the colonies of other beekeepers over > which I have no control at all. > > Do I then just get a reprieve from the aggression and then the situation > slowly reverts to the way it started?. Or must I keep on buying in these > good queens to guarantee my freedom from aggression?. > The quick answer is you just don't know. Most likely your prediction will come true (a reprieve with a slow reversion to aggression) unless some outside force (beekeeper) exerts an influence on the natural scheme of things. Without any intervention your gentle queens will eventually be supesedede by naturally mated queens, and your best efforts at controlling the gene pool will not guarantee what semen is passed on. My favorite queen supplier here in the states has recently stopped selling open mated queens because the Africanized bee has infiltrated their area and they cannot guarantee their open mated queens. They now sell ONLY instrumentally inseminated queens. Why is it that AHB infiltration only stops the good breeders while the breeders from whom I would not buy queens before AHB infiltration continue to sell queens after AHB infiltration with hype about saturation the breeding area with their gentle drones. Truth is, you CANNOT control what drones mate with virgin queens in an open mating. Natural selection comes with NO GUARANTEES, period. Now, this is not to say that you can't tip the scales in an open mating area. Saturating a mating area with drones DOES increase the chance of mating with a saturated drone. I know of a breeder in the Catskills Mountains (mid-central New York) who gives away his year old queens to members of his association, thereby saturating his breeding areas with his VIGORous breed, but even this does not GUARANTEE that his matings are true, it just stacks the deck in his favor. Note that this reply contains terms such as "prediction" and "chances are" and "stack the deck". Common terms for games of chance. Open mating is a crap shoot! You can intervene to improve your odds, but in open mating there are no guarantees. Closed mating areas offer better odds, but I am often skeptical of claimes of closed mating areas. How can one be sure that a mating area is closed? Brother Adam referred to closed mating areas as defined by geographical features (mountain ranges, seas, oceans, ...). A breeder in Vermont claims a closed mating area based on a large lake to his east and mountains on the other three sides. However he cannot guarantee that his closed area is not polluted by a local beekeeper who may import an exotic queen. Neither is he sure of the feral population (if there is a feral population left). Furthermore, if an area is truely closed then inbreeding becomes a concern. So, the long answer is that you can expect at best a reprieve. However, you can take steps to increase chances that your reversion is towards the gentle side. Cull your aggressive stock. The fewer aggressive drones in your mating area the more likely gentle genes will prevail. Encourage your neighboring beekeepers to do the same (cull aggressive stock, requeen with gentler stock). Stack the deck. If you end up with nasty new queens, don't tolerate, liquidate! If you and your neighbors keep this up, in a decade or so you might have an open mating area where gentle genes prevail (and even then you'll get an occasional nasty hive). If this is too much time and effort, get on a regular program of requeening with stock from a producer breeder who produces a quality product (gentle queens). Aaron Morris - thinking the more I learn about queen breeding the less I mind paying a good price for a good queen. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:33:11 -0500 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wtroyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom I have had experience with aggressive hives. My solution was to requeen all of those hives within the month before swarming season. The change has been dramatic. I can now work all hives in tee shirt and veil, some require light smoking others do not. I have used mostly natural queen rearing and mating the past five years with no known "nasties" being produced. Wade -- Web: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com Mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:51:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Message from Internet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pull out honey and replace with empty comb, reverse, make a split and feed it back some of the honey, add space on top to build in ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:09:19 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Chris' questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Konopka wrote: > 1. It was the 5 frames on the left side of the box that the bees were > working on, while none of the 5 on the right were being touched--will the > bees move to these on their own, or could it be that they've only been > working on the left ones because that is where we have the entrance feeder? > > 2. We noticed cells filled with sugar water and cells filled with what > appears to be the brown pollen substitute we gave them when we installed > them, but we didn't notice anything looking like eggs or larva--was it just > too early to look for these or is there a problem--or perhaps we didn't look > carefully enough 1) This often happens. I just readjust the colony so that the frames being used are centered. 2) Young brood and eggs are small and may possibly be missed. If you hold the frame up to the light, you'll see what appears to be a drop of milk in the bottom of the cells. Upon closer inspection you'll see tiny curled larvae lying in this medium, surrounded by cells having one tiny egg standing upright in it (when the frame is held horizontally, of course). Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:47:15 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Bee-L no, no's/helpful hints MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Everyone, With so many new list members, I wanted to pass on some helpful hint to all. When submitting a message that you want others to read, please consider the following; Subject: (none ), or blank I will not read any message that has no subject. Others feel the same way. These are simply deleted. A subject will assure that your note will at the very least, considered as to if it should be read. One long paragraph. Again, this is a prime candidate for an instant delete. Long quotes:< as in quoting back to the net, the entire text that is being answered> Some folks have to pay by the byte for internet access and a long quote adds to the bill, and to make matters worse, is completely unnecessary. Please use proper net-i-quette. Thanks Grist Mill Apiary Ernie Gregoire Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 05/05/99 08:47:15 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:23:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: Message from Internet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I would like to ask one of the BEE-L experts to give me some guidance. I am sure there are lots of people who would/could offer quidance. But we are worlds away - or are we. We are keeping bees in many different areas of the world and many questions are weather,climate, temperature, or forage sensitive. If questions would contain some clues as to the location of the writer I suggest that the answers would be more useful and perhaps more numerous. -- Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Queen banking experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Awhile back there was a post to the effect that queens were lost during banking. I have always banked my queens after receiving them from the breeder until I have a chance to install them. This year I made careful observations of what I did and what happened: Immediately after receiving my 75 queens, I set them atop two of my strongest hives, directly on the top bars of the upper hive body, and covered them with a shallow tray (not a full super). Within a day or two all the attendant bees in the queen cages were dead, but all the queens were alive and flourishing. I took queens from this bank daily as I anticipated using them to requeen and set up splits, and at the end of the day returned any extras to the bank. This occurred daily for about ten days, when I installed the last of the queens. Only one queen died during this time, in spite of having no living attendants within the cage. Every time I came to get a few queen cages, they were covered by hive bees caring for the queens - this in spite of the fact that the hives were both normal queenright colonies. The colony's queens never were seen in the vicinity of the queen cages, and evidently paid no attention to these visiting queens. I haven't yet removed all the queen cages from the splits, but in the six I got to, the queens all were normally released and laying after a week. A few dead attendants still remained in the cages. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:33:32 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Midnight Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Asking for drawbacks about the Midnite queens - they are fine bees, but I have trouble spotting the darker queens when requeening, etc. So if you are like me, be sure to order them marked. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:48:59 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Swarm Behavior? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott E. Brooks wrote: > I noticed a small swarm-looking cluster of bees, = > about the size of a baseball hanging from the front of the bottom board. = > I took a stick and raked them off. They were very "clingy" but as I = > shook them off the stick, they dispersed. No queen was in the cluster. = > Tonight as I came home I observed the same thing, only now both hives = > were involved. Has anyone else observed this kind of behavior? Is this = > a prelude to a Swarm? Please help if you can. Yes, this behavior at this time of the year especially is a sign that a swarm is imminent. When they have swarm cells in the hive and act lethargic at the entrance, be prepared to watch for a swarm. I was working one of my yards yesterday, saw a cluster in front of the hive, and within a few minutes it was in the air. Now I have a nice new colony filling two hive bodies. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:21:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom: I strongly believe in buying queens from the selected stock on highly skilled queen breeders! I am very opposed to allowing my bees to produce queens which will breed with every Tom, Dick, And Harry that comes down to road; and hence, hybridizing my bees. I am much aware that the races of bees have been intermingled now for many generations, but there are those highly skilled, specialist queen breeders that have selected their stock over the years including artificial insemination to return a race back close to its original concepts. In the states, Sue Cobey is a classic case of restoring Carniolans to what they once were by select breeding by artificial insemination, and then creating the NEW WORLD CARNIOLAN. This is my 66th year in beekeeping, and over 50 years ago, I used to raise my own queens. However, when a quality queen can be bought for $10 and mailed to you in 24 hours and it has all the qualities you are looking for, why bother to raise your own. It may be of interest to you that I work my apiary quite often in shorts and tee-shirt and sometimes with no veil. Each August, I put on a demonstration 4 times a day for 9 days at the county fair of opening colonies, finding the queen, and show her to the onlookers and I have never worn a veil and wear only slacks and short sleeve shirt. I have only been stung 3-4 times in the last 10 years. I much prefer to do this with my own Carniolans, but I have done the same, but not as easy, with Italians. Sorry to bother you with my exploits. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:50:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CD Rasmussen Subject: Re: I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I must warn you that most beekeepers are staunch traditionalists (for good reason) and look on the use of plastic as heresy. That said, I use plastic comb myself. I use ANP comb for the brood and Duracomb for supers. Please feel free to reply if you don't know of a source for information on these. Also, what part of Conn are you in? You did say local didn't you? Thanks, Costa --- KingBeeJRV@aol.com wrote: > Hello Bee Friends. > I need a local (Conn.) source for plastic foundation. > Having never used > plastic before, which is the better choice, Rite cell or > Pierco? > John > CT > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:08:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeff Miller Subject: Place for bees in San Diego Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi friends, This is my first posting to this list. I have been a member for ~2 weeks and have already enjoyed and learned from your posts. Please forgive (or delete) this long post. I am looking for room for several very calm but very productive colonies in the San Diego area. Some background: I live in a very regulated private gated community in northern San Diego County. Here in San Diego the hobby apiarist faces real difficulties (beyond mites, etc). The local "news services" are always playing up stories about "killer bees". This really makes it difficult to convince people that bees are calm. It does help that I point out that I have children of 4, 6 and 8 years running around in the yard with the bees. Fortunately we are flanked by very tolerant neighbors, and I asked permission to have beehives before capturing a couple of swarms last year. In addition, we did something that I recommend, and may have nipped the initial fear that sometime accompanies "bees" from those who might otherwise be inclined to assume that bees=stings=danger: I went out a bought several of Dadant's little yellow beginning beekeeping books and gave them as presents to my immediate neighbors. This promoted interest in beekeeping, eliminated a lot of the ignorance-based fear and, coupled with answering their questions and asking if they might be interested in helping with the extraction of honey (and an endless supply of honey) promoted a real bond with the neighbors. They have even treated swarms landing in their trees more as a real life nature lesson than an annoyance. "We just stayed inside until they settled down onto our tree branch; just like it said in the book", and they were fasinated by the process of recovery of the swarm. I think you will agree: really exceptional neighbors!! I had two hives last year and, as you might expect, San Diego really has a year long season. Spring flowers and Fall/Winter eucalyptus. One of my two hives produced 300-400 lbs of honey. At one time the hive had 9 medium supers on top and I harvested 2 times during the year. I was able to nip the swarming in the bud by inspecting the brood chambers every 2 weeks and destroying all queen cells. Now the present situation: I had four hives last week; today I have 6 hives. I physically can not remove the ~300 lbs of honey presently on my largest hive on a reasonable schedule to check the status. I removed ~100 lbs of honey from this hive 3 weeks ago (I left ~4 incompletely filled or uncapped supers) and returned the empty drawn combs to the hive (now with ~8 supers). Three of the other hives presently have another 200-300 lbs of honey on them. In the past three days I have captured 2 sizable swarms from these hives. I do not want to push it with the neighbors. As you might expect, I have noticed (even though they haven't - yet) that the bees are collecting water from newly sprinkled grass and backyard ponds/swimming pools. I do not want to ruin a very good situation. Therefore, I would like to keep one hive in the yard, and relocate the remaining 5 hives. I would love the opportunity to share the bounty. Any takers or suggestions from people with property in the San Diego area?? Jeffrey Miller Carlsbad, California ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:52:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Smart, Billy Y" Subject: Looking for mentor in South Central Kansas Comments: To: "BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Folks, Hello, I am interested in beekeeping and would like to find a mentor in my area. So far I have had little luck. I am located in Cowley County in Kansas in the Rock/Udall/Belle Plaine area. Is there anyone out there? Thanks, Billy Y. Smart ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:18:34 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GImasterBK@aol.com wrote: > Each August, > I put on a demonstration 4 times a day for 9 days at the county fair of > opening colonies, finding the queen, and show her to the onlookers and I have > never worn a veil and wear only slacks and short sleeve shirt. I have only > been stung 3-4 times in the last 10 years. George,I assume by this that you mean that you've been only stung 3-4 times during this period while doing your demonstration, right? I think my bees are gentle, but I usually get at least that many stings every time I work them. Ted Fischer Dexter, MI USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:43:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I remember some time ago that there was a very lively discussion on the list regarding the benefits of FGMO in combatting varroa. In fact one of the more active contributors had devised quite a sophisticated system for delivering just the right amount of FGMO to ensure the destruction of the mites and the safety of the bees. In recent times the discussion on this subject has gone very quiet. Where does the debate now lie?. Is it possible to provide dependable proof that FGMO is a viable method of tackling varroa or equally is it possible to provide dependable proof that FGMO is not viable. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 18:36:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last year I killed an unworkable mean hive late in the season with sulfur smoke. The bees were a supercedure of Buckfasts from Texas. I just got in from fooling with another supercedure of similar temperament. The sweaty area of my sweatshirt has about 100 stingers in it. I sustained maybe 25 through my hide. So far I have divided this 2 story hive into 3 hives and requeened 2 of the splits that showed no eggs after a few days. I have yet to find the queen in the queenright 1/3. Tomorrow if I don't look too lumpy I will try again to find the queen. I have moved the new requeened portions onto the queenright hives stand and toted her hive off into the woods a ways. Well the phone just rang I must have set the hive on a soft spot because it fell over- wish me luck I am off to set it upright. What a day- it hurts so much I can't help but laugh. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:43:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Good Quality Queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Thank you most sincerely for your helpful replies to my post on Good Quality Queens. I must confess that I am somewhat disappointed that things could not be different, but the truth of the matter as enunciated by your experienced contributors is that I get only a reprieve from the aggression. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:05:28 -0400 Reply-To: kfkress@fuse.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kevin Kress Subject: Proper hive ventalation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you don't mind borring a hole in you supers, go to your hardware store and find plastic caps that will fit either a 1, 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch opening. Once you have some, auger that size into one narrow side of the super, about an inch or so below the hand hold. The reason I mentioned finding the caps first is because eventually you may want to close up the hole for one reason or another. In a very small town once, it took forever to find the right size caps I needed (I used duct tape until then). --David Scribner A wad of burr comb also works well to seal these holes. Kevin Kress, Cincinnati ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:02:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen banking experience In-Reply-To: <199905051513.LAA01334@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Immediately after receiving my 75 queens, I set them atop two of my > strongest hives, directly on the top bars of the upper hive body, and > covered them with a shallow tray (not a full super). Within a day or > two all the attendant bees in the queen cages were dead, but all the > queens were alive and flourishing. I've observed this too, and it is typical -- as far as I can recall. Moreover, this is not necessarily a bad thing, since it is said by some that having attendants in cages will affect the sucessful introduction of queens. I have also observed queens helping themselves to candy in the cages, something many say they cannot/will not do. allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:02:57 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens In-Reply-To: <199905051241.IAA17511@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have had experience with aggressive hives. My solution was to requeen > all of those hives within the month before swarming season. The change > has been dramatic. I can now work all hives in tee shirt and veil, some > require light smoking others do not. I have used mostly natural queen > rearing and mating the past five years with no known "nasties" being > produced. Temperament is an odd thing. Yesterday I went to a yard after working several other yards bare-handed, and by the time I left that one yard, I was sincerely plotting the deaths of a number of queens. Maybe the whole dratted lot. I had left my gloves at home. (Actually I found out when I looked for them this morning that I don't even have a pair -- someone had 'borrowed them last fall. That's how often I use gloves) Anyhow, this morning I found gloves and returned to finish the work we had left at quitting time yesterday, and the same bees were really calm and nice. I recalled having driving through a little rain squall between yards the previous day, and I guess that had ticked them off just before I got there. That's not to say that there are not bees that are always miserable. We all know that there are., and they are not welcome anywhere. I also reported here on this list, some package bees from Australia that had driven the supplier's son from the yard last year when he dropped by to see them on a trip to Canada. This spring I went back to work them and they were most hospitable. As I say, I don't usually even carry gloves with me, and I had no problem with them. As Pooh said, "You never can tell when it comes to bees". allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 01:00:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: PT2-006600 Subject: Re: Midnight Bees Comments: To: Scott Moser In-Reply-To: <199905032346.TAA17257@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I tried them a few years ago and they glued the hell out of the boxes and really didn't do half as much as the Starlines next to them. They didn't make it through their third winter, but the Starlines did like gangbusters again and I'll be using them to replace the Midnights. I'll stick with the Starlines from now on. Dave hobbyist in Scranton, PA with 3 hives. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 07:05:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: ANP comb MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-Liners, Costa has mentioned that he is using ANP plastic comb in brood section. I would like to hear his experience and anyone else with this type of plastic comb. I have an old add of ANP plastic comb where is stated that this comb is shortening development of bee brood. Is that ANP still the same, middle wall and two sides ? With regards, Janko ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:49:16 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Natural selection for gentle bees? In-Reply-To: <199904290400.AAA24738@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All After a long absence I find myself posting again to Bee-L. Tom: You answered a post about the natural selection of bees in old skep hives in the UK where beekeepers would have taken the heaviest hives etc. In my part of the worl we have a unique and extremely peaceful african bee - A.m.capensis - which is a bit different to the other african bees. Over the millenia, Khoi san (bushmen) people, and more recently the Nguni people (black) have raided these bees - removing the brood nest as well as honey. In the rest of africa this has resulted in extremely aggressive bees - who become exponentially more aggressive the large their honey reserve is. In our area the opposite is true. Repeated raiding has selected strongly for bees who can requeen from a worker laid egg. Due to the selfish gene effect these bees are not actually compelled to defend their hive always - it is in the interests of a clone who is not related to the queen to have the queen killed - as one of the clones eggs may be the one that becomes the new queen. So here we see an example of human predation on bees selecting for a gentle bee - but by a different method!! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:37:51 -0700 Reply-To: nancybee@netwizards.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nancy Thomas Organization: The Bee Hive Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 May 1999 to 2 May 1999 (#1999-38) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beekeepers in the San Francisco Bay Area: I need a mentor, I can't keep bees where I live but would like to help someone, please reply. Thanks, Nancy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:02:59 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens In-Reply-To: <199905051653.MAA04363@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I strongly believe in buying queens from the selected stock on > highly skilled queen breeders! I have to agree with this. I believe in it too, but just to get new blood. And I'll have to admit that purchased queens can have their place in routine management, too. When the price of honey got ridiculous a few years back, I had to jump in and use every trick in the book to get that one extra pound of honey. Mated queens can -- in some circumstances, when combined with a lot of labour -- result in increased honey production over natural methods, and I succumbed to the lure of the dollar. In the bargain, we diluted the very good bees we had developed in only a year or two with a number of diverse commercial stocks: some good, some not as good. > I am very opposed to allowing my bees to produce queens which will > breed with every Tom, Dick, And Harry that comes down to road; and > hence, hybridizing my bees. I can understand this viewpoint, and it definitely has its merits, however, it does have its downside too. Wherever there is a limited gene pool, there is danger of susceptibility to disease and also a lack of variety in behaviours from which to select for local conditions. (Besides, what is the matter with Dick? :) Monoculture has become the norm in our society and is the basis for the production of large crops. it is also the basis for unforeseen large -- and sometimes mysterious -- losses, and problems with pests, predators. If I had a few hives, and did not depend on them for a consistent living as well as entertainment, a monoculture bee would suit me fine. Variety is reportedly the spice of life, and I like to have a variety of bees. On top of this, I have observed that bees very quickly -- in several generations only -- become acclimatised to my area and yield significant benefits over imports in terms of wintering, production and disease resistance. We live in a harsh environment here, and the winter sifts the wheat from the chaff. That is not to say that some bees purchased are not superior on some occasions. For example, I have been very impressed by some of the bees that come out of Australia. I just do not believe that a distant supplier can hit home runs all the time, and I hate to depend on a selection process that may change in some very essential detail at any time -- unbeknownst to me. Exceptional stock -- no matter what anyone says -- is partly a matter of luck and is also highly dependant on personnel. A breed can change suddenly in a few generations. Commercial stock is often raised from a very limited number of mothers, and mothers die. What may be great stock one year may be average -- or worse the next. IMO. Don't get me wrong; I do sometimes enjoy buying packages that all look like clones. That's what they are. If well produced in prime season, they all come along on in perfect synchronisation, and all do equally well. Or poorly. How can we compare? They are all the same! As much as I enjoy uniformity, I have thrown in my lot with the renegade bunch who root for the half-breed motley crew of misbegotten bees that George decries. I am an unabashed lover of diversity and the melting pot. I believe that nature is wiser than me. I try to facilitate and co-operate. I don't think that nature makes bad bees around here. Queens raised in, or from, highly successful hives do not mate with Tom, Dick, and Harry if raised early enough in the year. They mate with only the offspring of other hives tough enough to have made it through the winter in condition to raise early drones. That takes some special qualities around here. Sure the hives may have defects, but they have what it takes to get through winter and build up fast -- and be prosperous enough to consider supporting drones. When we raise cells from grafts, we try to use hives that were star producers, so we emphasize all the important qualities in the mix. Later in the season, well, all bets are off, since even the turkeys can make drones by August. But by August, it is really too late, anyhow and we aren't making queens other than by supercedure. I raise my queens, both by grafting and by simple split-and-leave-alone early enough in the spring that only the best make the cut. I'm not the judge. Nature is. I have to split early to get enough bees to pay me for my trouble, and the circumstances are such that the deck is stacked in my favour -- at that particular time. > However, when a quality queen can be bought for $10 and mailed to you in 24 hours and it has all the qualities you are looking for, why bother to raise your own. Well, first, I don't know *for sure* in advance what she will be like. Second, it is a whole lot of trouble to introduce mated queens compared to using cells or split-and-walk-away. Several visits are required, frames must be examined, queens must be purchased, stored, and checked. Skilled labour must be hired or trained. When you have to make a thousand splits or so in two weeks, anything that makes the job simpler, cheaper, and less risky is worthwhile. Today I took 80 Hawaiian queens with me to the field with two other good men. When I returned this evening I still had 43 of the little #$%@s to worry about. In a whole day I only managed to install 37 into splits _that had been prepared in advance_. Why did I buy them? Insurance. I bought them in a moment of doubt and faithlessnes, when I feared that nature would not provide and that we would not have our own queens early enough. Of course on that queen installing trip we did many other tasks too; we reversed, we scraped a few floors, and we had to put fourths on some of the better hives that we had not yet split. BUT, if I had been using cells or walk-away splits, I could have made and finished 100+ splits *easily* during that time -- in one trip. And I would not have paid $518 Canadian dollars for those 37 queens and a trip to the bus depot (60 miles distant) to get the job done. Kick me. I was stupid. I rue the day I bought them. Alberta has a very sudden Spring. I only have a short time from when the hives first get strong enough to split until the splitting season is all over. Even though cells individually take a bit longer to result in a laying queen, they are about equally reliable, and I can get through the whole outfit *much sooner*. The result is an average time, collectively, from commencement of splitting to completion that is much shorter, and _average effective queen installation date_ that is on the whole -- believe it or not -- *earlier* than with mated queens. Moreover, last year, 500 promised queens did not come until _a week late_, and we had splits ready that had to be checked for cells by the time the queens arrived. Not only is a week a very long time in the splitting window, but that extra check is a huge chore. Anyhow, mated queens sound like a wonderful idea, but in practice, they keep the beekeeper very occupied and worried. Just read all the posts by anxious beginners who read all the books and try to do all the manipulations recommended for dealing with bought queens. Most of them would be really happy with the results of simply breaking their hobby hive(s) in half whenever it got too big and looked about to swarm and letting the hive(s) requeeen naturally. (Later, re-combining them in the fall tends to ensure a sure-thing wintering unit). Sure, buy queens if you need good stock and doubt your current stock, or for any other reason, but don't run down home-made queens or sell Mother Nature short. > Sorry to bother you with my exploits. My apologies to breeders, writers, and believers. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 06:53:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mesinger Subject: Re: Midnight Bees In-Reply-To: <199905060841.EAA18854@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I had a similer experience with Midnights from GA. I got both Starlines and Midnights. I had to treat the Midnights with fumadil B - they arrived sick. During installation 7 workers got inside my veil and tried to get out. They never buzzed me or stung me as long as I had them. They were moderate honey producers during a drought year compared to Starlines, which made honey all day long. The Midnights propolized as much as the Caucasians I had in Pgh. many years ago. I gave them away. The Starlines were great except that I thought they were a bit sloppy in capping the corners in their rush to go to the next super. The following year they turned mean and poor producers. I could have requeened. In stead, I gave them away and introduced Yugo Carniolans. This year they superceded with Italian drones from a neighbor and tried to swarm a month later. All this while my Sue Coby Carniolans are a dream. I see no solution other than annual requeening as long as other types of drones are in the area. Cordially, John F. Mesinger ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 08:21:53 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Queen banking experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > I have also observed queens helping themselves to candy in the cages, > something many say they cannot/will not do. Yes, this is true. I have also observed this in all the queen cages, especially after the attendant bees are dead. The queen is often almost out of sight and into the candy. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 08:42:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, Now we wait while the universities and other researchers provide real scientific data to help decide such things as dosages and application methods and strategies. The trick here is to have them help us decide on a consistent application level that will allow us to efficiently kill the mites without killing bees or effecting queen laying, supercedure, etc. Frankly I hope this works well and we then have a mechanical control for the mites with a food grade substance. Almost too good to be true. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > Where does the debate now lie?. Is it possible to provide dependable proof > that FGMO is a viable method of tackling varroa or equally is it possible to > provide dependable proof that FGMO is not viable. > > Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:56:52 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Florin Cimpoesu Subject: need help (search producing or distributor LATEX or PLUTEX) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I search producing or distributor LATEX or PLUTEX for Venom Collector Frames. If possible in Europa, in the vicinity Romania. Thank you. Forin Cimpoesu. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:22:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WUhlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I, too, had the same experience. My advice for Buckfast aficionados is to requeen every year! And, that's sometime difficult because the 2nd generation gals are difficult to requeen---they kill her even with a Thurber long cage use. My two hives are in densely populated downtown Seattle. It doesn't work to having the neighbors' small children stung by a mean bunch of 2nd or third generation Buckfasts. That's not mention yourself with dozens of stings through your beesuit and veil! The Buckfast queen is a prolific and efficient queen. And the progeny are industrious with great honey production. But---requeen regularly! W.C. Uhlman Seattle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:03:07 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: A. m. capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth writes about the gentleness which has become part of the capensis bee's characteristics, often wondered about the Cape bee, and have these questions: 1) Laying workers can produce normal queens, and I suppose other workers as well. Have these workers therefore mated with drones, or are the fertile eggs haploid? If haploid, what determines if an egg develops into a queen/worker or a drone? 2) All I have read about this bee suggests that it is a scourge upon the beekeeping world, and steps must be taken to prevent its spread elsewhere. What is so bad about it - does it swarm excessively, produce little honey, too much propolis, get diseases or parasites more readily than others - or what? (Maybe the queen breeders just don't want to have self-requeening colonies around.) Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 08:54:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Queen Behavior/Aggressiveness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I have to be away for a few weeks (poor timing) so I was adding extra supers to my colonies. I took the cover off one colony and there was a queen running around on the top of the inner cover. She was plump and did not appear to be a virgin or a queen preparing to swarm. I put her in the hole of the inner cover and a few seconds later she came back out. I did notice one worker feeding her. I marked her and put her on the top bars of the top super and put another empty super on top. I closed up the hive and kept working. A few minutes later I lifted the outer cover and there she was again. I didn't go through the colony and look for another queen. I thought it was better to leave it alone and let the bees sort it out. Is this queen anti-social, or is she waiting for her date. Also, when I get to this yard and am still getting things ready, there are some aggressive bees that immediately show their displeasure with my being there. The problem is I can't tell which colony they are from. When I work the colonies none appear more aggressive than any other. There is no evidence of skunks or anything else bothering them. I wouldn't care except the bees are located in an orchard that is part of an Institute/Research Farm. They have tours through the orchard. I spoke to the orchard workers and they said they were not bothered by the bees so I guess you have to get close. I just wish I could tell what colony is doing this. Bee well, Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 07:04:56 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Midnight Bees In-Reply-To: <199905061204.IAA20423@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Starlines were great except that I thought they were a bit sloppy in capping the corners in > their rush to go to the next super. The following year they turned mean and poor producers. Starlines are an example of deliberate and carefully tuned hybrid 'superbee'. My understanding is that they are often created from two parent lines that by themselves can be very poor. I have heard of such parent lines that barely sustain themselves through a season, yet which add something to the first cross which makes the cross very successful. The offspring of such hybrids are seldom much good. If they are, it is only a matter of luck. This type of bee is different from the more common strains of bees raised by most commercial breeders which are not as highly tuned. In my experience, the offspring of non-special, non-hybrid commercial breeds are usually not too much different from the parents and crosses between them are usually quite AOK. The quality of such offspring is pretty much dependant on the conditions under which they are raised, and with a little selection they can be very good. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:16:02 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: lab 182 Subject: Re: A. m. capensis Comments: cc: j.a.p.earle@fujin.qub.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all, This not only happens in the cape bee but has been documented for other bee races too (but cape does it best). I beleive that during normal egg development, there is a stage where there are 4 pronuclei (terminology probably wrong ) of which 3 perish leaving a haploid egg which if unfertilized will be drone. In the cape bee, during egg development, sometimes not all the pronuclei perish leaving a state where there are 2 in an egg. These fuse to give a diploid egg. Therefor you get an egg developing into a female Queen or worker without and fertilization of the egg ever taking place. There is a genetic term for this which I cant remember but someone out there may tell us. I have observed this happening in Virgin Queens induced to lay by giving CO2, you get lots of drone brood with a very low frequency of worker. Regards Philip Earle ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 12:11:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: Virgin Queens being shipped MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain hi everybody, please answer a question, if one were to ship a virgin queen from, let's say from North Dakota to Florida. my question is, will the queen take a mating flight after being released in her new home in florida being caged for a couple of days? thanks ! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 08:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: jslavett@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Hasta B. Shasta" Subject: Re: Queen Behavior/Aggressiveness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about a can of spray paint? Spray the aggressive bees, then later see in which colonies you can find them, or their corpses. BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM wrote: > Also, when I get to this yard and am still getting things ready, there are > some aggressive bees that immediately show their displeasure with my being > there. The problem is I can't tell which colony they are from. When I work > the colonies none appear more aggressive than any other. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:31:44 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I attended the Ohio State Bee Schools in Wooster and Cincinnati. According to Dr. Tew of the OSU Bee Lab, they have no intention of testing FGMO or Essential Oil in the foreseeable future. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:40:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/99 9:44:11 AM EST, WUhlman@aol.com writes: > > The Buckfast queen is a prolific and efficient queen. And the progeny are > industrious with great honey production. But---requeen regularly! > I intend to requeen but not with any more Buckfasts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:06:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Granelli Subject: Requeening Comments: To: "BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post questions but here goes. I am trying to requeen a hive. I was told to leave the hive queenless for 24 hours and to remove the attendants from the queen cage. My questions are, 1) Is it very important to remove the attendands for the queen cage? Does it really threaten the success of requeening. 2) I only can check the hive one day a week, so the most I can leave my hive queenless is a few hours. If this is not enough time, what else can I do. Should I just remove the candy and let the queen in the hive or should I just let the bees try and eat it away. Any other suggestions? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:51:33 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Requeening In-Reply-To: <199905062109.RAA01088@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Robert Granelli asked > My questions are, > > 1) Is it very important to remove the attendands for the queen > cage? Does it really threaten the success of requeening. There is a great difference of opinion on this point. Some do and some don't. In Australia, most commercial beekeepers use the mailing cage as the introduction cage and leave the escorts in. Some take the queen out and use a Miller cage for introduction. Personally I leave the escorts in as I do not have time to release all the escorts. I have great success on some days and not so good on others. Why? I don't know. It is one of the great mysteries of beekeeping. I suspect it has something to do with weather conditons and hive conditions at the time of introdcution and the following couple of days. Recreational beekeepers have the time to release escorts and tend to do this more. The real answer is do what you feel comfortable with. You will probably be influenced by others whom you talk to. > 2) I only can check the hive one day a week, so the most I can > leave my hive queenless is a few hours. If this is not enough time, what > else can I do. Should I just remove the candy and let the queen in the > hive or should I just let the bees try and eat it away. Any other > suggestions? Again, opinion here is divided. Personally, I kill the queen and put the mailing cage in straight away. I don't have time to kill queens and then come back to put a cage in. Some even put the freshly killed queen in the bottom of the cage so the bees know they have a dead queen. I don't do this as the work by people like Dr. Mark Winston on pheremones show that a hive knows it is queenless within about 15 minutes of the queen being removed. I posted before that I believe you should let the bees eat out the candy. Do not put a hole in the candy. It is my opinion that the longer it takes to release the queen, the better the chances are of a successful introduction. I have heard of beekeepers releasing the queen straight into the hive but unless it is very good conditions, I feel that you will have more failures than successes. Overall what you do is what you feel comfortable with and what you have learnt from your mentors. I always remember a saying that Tilly Kuhnert from Germany told me many years ago. It was "If you put 4 beekeepers together, you will get 5 opinions". True? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 23:00:30 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ana Lucia Merlo Subject: Re: Queen Behavior/Aggressiveness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" there are some aggressive bees that immediately show their displeasure with my being there. > I just wish I could tell what colony is doing this. > When I attended a course on beekeeping at the University of Rio Claro - Sao Paulo - Brazil, we used to test the agressiveness in the colonies by knocking a black furry ball, tied up to a piece of elastic at the entrance of the hive and timing to see the reactions. By doing this you will find out that some colonies will respond much quicker to your knocking than the others giving you one idea on which one has been bothering you. Regards, Ana Lucia. __________________________________________________________________________ Ana Lucia Campos Merlo. Bee Biz - For the Commercial Beekeeper. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:21:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: Obsevation Hive question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I started a one frame observation hive last week, and I think I may have a problem with the queen. I used a queen and some bees from a hive that wasn't developing well- I figured a queen with a smallish brood area would still be fine for an observation hive. There are enough bees in it to easily cover about half the comb, on both sides. (I was planning on adding more bees as needed.) The problem is, 7 days after I began seeing eggs in the combs, I have only about 10 capped cells of brood, and they are scattered across the small brood area. (About the size of my hand.) The queen seems to be laying constantly, but it seems that few of the bees are developing into viable brood. I have insulated the hive with a couple pieces of corrugated cardboard, and the glass feels nice and warm whenever I remove the cardboard to take a look. (The bees don't seem to be clustering hard to warm the brood, but moving about freely.) The hive is inside, and while the room isn't terribly warm, It hasn't gotten very chilly either. They have lots of pollen, and plenty of nectar- they are hardly touching the syrup in the feeder jar. I have already ordered a new queen to replace her- but is this really a queen problem, or is it one common to observation hives? Ellen Anglin Mt.Clemens MI ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 08:48:27 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Queen banking experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Fischer recounted: >The colony's queens never >were seen in the vicinity of the queen cages, and evidently paid no >attention to these visiting queens. > One method reputed to work for finding difficult queens is to pin a dead queen (preserved in the freezer) to the top bar of a frame in the brood box, and close down for ten minutes. The theory is that the live queen will seek out the supposed rival and can easily be found close to the dead queen. I have had my doubts about this method, mainly about the survival of pheremones on a long-dead queen. Ted's observations that the colony's queen appears to be indifferent to his stored queens reinforces my doubts. Has anyone had any personal experience, either way, of this method of finding queens? John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper pencaemawr@bigfoot.com If you don't change direction, you'll end up where you're going ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:07:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My advice for Buckfast aficionados is to > requeen every year! And, that's sometime difficult because the 2nd > generation gals are difficult to requeen---they kill her even with a Thurber > long cage use. Being one of those "aficionados" I have to say; if the bees don't behave as expected, change your queen supplier! The Buckfast bees are no different from other races (one can of course have a long discussion about if it's a real race or not...) and should not turn aggressive after a supersedure. If your Buckfast bees don't behave, the queens have probably been mated to other non gentle stock. I have crossed Buckfast with Carniolan and Italian without getting any problems. The first generation will be gentle, if both queen and drones are from pure breed. Second generation things will start to happen and the difference between colonies will show up. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:29:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Mean Hive In-Reply-To: <199905061440.KAA23469@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There We go generalizing again. I have four second generation hives that are just as gentle as the first generation. I work My hives only using smoke to clear the tops of the frames so I don;t squish bees. It just depends on the genes that are being introduced by the drone. Many people on the list have a few bad experiences with a certain race or hybrid of bees and blame the whole strain. You can get a mean hive from the second generation of any race or strain. Please don't generalize. Garry Libby Boston, USA LibBEE@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 23:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re-Queening Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Robert Granelli writes: > I am trying to requeen a hive. I was told to leave the hive queenless for 24 hours Hello robert, and all, The important point here is that you DO NOT FAIL to remove her! There are many beehavers who will say I couldn't find her, so I just left the two queens to fight if out. Never happens. The colony bees, loyal to their natural queen, will kill the newly introduced queen immediately, never to find the natural queen to fight, and never to be seen again. >1) Is it very important to remove the attendants from the queen >cage? Does it really threaten the success of requeening. It is not necessary. I personally prefer to do this and expect my success rate in requeening to approach 95%. BUT, I also give the hive an artificial nector flow with a quart daily of 1:1 sugar syrup. Then try to requeen in a natural flow. I try to delay her escape until day 5 by removing the cork at 48 hours, which you will not be able to do. Obviously, I am a hobby keeper, but that is what a hobby is about......finding out what is right, then doing things the right way! >2) I only can check the hive one day a week, so the most I can >leave my hive queenless is a few hours. Repeat after me: Just be sure to leave the hive QUEENLESS! >Should I just remove the candy and let the queen in the >hive Absolutely not! The very best way to fail. >or should I just let the bees try and eat it away You will have to remove the cork when you put the cage in the colony after killing the old queen. The colony bees will free her in 72-80 hours >Any other suggestions? On your every 7 day schedule for examining the colony, here the queen will escape at 3-4 days, and unless you are very good at seeing eggs and/or less than 24 hour larvae, don't even try to examine the colony until the 14th day; by that time you will not risk the queen being balled/killed, and there will be enough large larvae for you to find them easily. Reread your book on requeening. And Good Luck. Bob Barnett Birmingham, AL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:11:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jeff M. Chambers" Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone. I'm new to the list and bee keeping. Most of the discussion thus far has been over me at a fairly high altitude but this thread struck. I just set up my first hive with Buckfast bees. I chose them because for several reasons but one being that they are one of the most gentle. Does this only hold for the first generation and are subsequent generations that much more aggressive than other races or hybrids? Would also be interested in anyone else's thoughts on the Buckfast hybrid beyond this question. Thanks and the list is great even now when I don't get a lot of what is said. Jeff M. Chambers Adams Nebraska ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 06, 1999 12:40 PM Subject: Re: Mean Hive > In a message dated 5/6/99 9:44:11 AM EST, WUhlman@aol.com writes: > > > > > The Buckfast queen is a prolific and efficient queen. And the progeny are > > industrious with great honey production. But---requeen regularly! > > > I intend to requeen but not with any more Buckfasts ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:48:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB@AOL.COM Subject: Bees near D.C. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My daughter has a friend who is troubled with allergies and is looking for local honey. Does anyone know of honey gathered as near to Washington, D.C. as possible? Thanks for the info. Faith Andrews Bedford ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:05:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Susan and/or David Dannenberg Subject: New hive questions Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am totally new to this and I have two questions (well tons, but two of immediate concern). 1. My hive body is three or four weeks old. I started with all new equipment and purchased bees. after a week or two I noticed ants on the bottom board near the board feeder. Is this something to be concerned about? Since the hive sits on 6x6's its impractical to "moat" it. 2. When I checked the hive after the first week (with the help of a beekeeper of six years experience) we were able to find the queen (she looked a lot bigger in just one week!) and she was laying but we also noticed weird wax formations in two places one fairly high on the foundation with a hole behind it (queen cell??) and one lower on a different frame. My friend removed the upper one and told me I should remove the lower one next time I go into the hive. I've been following the instructions in Dadant's First Lessons in Beekeeping and plan to open the hive the next sunny day. So... SHould I destroy the odd comb or let the bees do what they think best. ANything in particular to look for. Thanks in advance for any advise. Sue suedave@pond.com Philadelphia, PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 09:44:31 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Good Quality Queens Comments: cc: eabell In-Reply-To: <3732F76A.D9B9247@compusmart.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I enjoyed your post and am most interested in your comparison of > 'grow your own' vs purchased queens. I am also impressed that you are > adding the 4th box already. Not all need even a third. Some hives don't look any better than packages, and my packages look sick). Depends mostly on the stock and the yard location. Many hives are still plugged with fall feed. In our local area, about 1/3 the hives are splittable (see below). Gotta pat that Brown guy from Auz on the back. His three pounders from last year are bodacious! Split them two weeks ago now and the *splits* still look better than some of the unsplit hives from various commercial stock I've accumulated over the last year or two. Anyhow, here's what we are doing these days: we break the strong hives (bees on 5 or 6 bottom bars and brood in all stages in at least two standard boxes) in half and set the split onto the ground tight beside the parent hive -- or into an empty space in the four packs if it is cool they are not flying enough that we are worried about them all going to the original stand. There are details on my web pages, as I recall under spring management. http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ We've done about 200 in the last few days, and expect to do another 800 or so over the next two weeks. (That is above and beyond the splits done on Terry's packages that got Hawaiian queens). Simultaneously, we are grafting and raising cells. The plan is to use the cells to speed up and augment the natural process. When our cells are ready, we will go to recent splits (four days old or more) and do a quick check for the queenless half and pop in a cell. That cell will be a bit ahead of the natural emergency cells, and -- if good -- will be the new queen. If not, then the emergency cells provide a backup. If we have lots of cells and start to catch up -- it's always hard to project the final production of cells because of unpredictable cell acceptance in cell builders at this time of year -- we won't bother checking for the queenless half; we'll just pop a cell into both halves and save time. This latter method also has a remote chance of superceding the queen in the queenright half. It is not uncommon for the queens in hives that are fast in building to have the queen peter out about now, so in those cases, our second cell may not be wasted. > I wish mine needed another box. We know that in your > climate (mine for sure) mating weather is hard to come by this time of year. > Have you had any difficult getting mated queens from Nature this early in May? In > addition, we have very few drones this time of year. Lots on the way but very > few mature drones. Well, we are just now making the splits, so it will be about two weeks until the queens need drones. There are some drones around now, and they are emerging daily. By then there should be plenty of mature ones from the most advanced hives. We need about 2,000 drones per yard and I can see them hatching as we split. To get 2,000 drones we need only one or two frames of drone brood, and as you know, we aren't big on culling every frame with a few drone cells, so we have lots. > I would welcome the opportunity to split and walk away for you are right - using > mated queens takes a lot of visits. I chose to use mated queens because I can > count on them being available more or less when I need them. Why not try some walk-away splits from your strongest hives right now? You'd be surprised how they add up if you do one here and one there as you are going through the yards. If you happen on a yard that is not worth splitting because there are only a few hives ready, and the trips back with queens etc. won't be worth it -- but there are a few boomers that are ready with bees on the bottom of 5 or 6 frames and brood in all stages in both boxes -- just split them, mark them and check them sometime after 21 days for eggs & brood. I think you will be pleased. Then follow them through the season and winter to see if they measure up. Some people claim that emergency cells are inferior, but none of them have had the (Andy call them 'wayvos') to back up their claims with more than old wives tales (my apologies to old wives), so you'll have to prove it for yourself that I'm right (along with Charles Mraz). In the fairly rare case that the queenless half stays queenless for more than 3 weeks, then just reunite them or use the queenless half as a booster for a weak split somewhere in the yard. As for the hives that do not get strong enough to split soon, we'll have to mark them and requeen them somehow with better stock. I'd not let them raise their own. Maybe we will just take three or four of them and stack them up for a week so the queens will eliminate the worst of their number and so they can get some brood going, then split them down again using cells. No way I'm gonna waste my life hunting queens. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:54:15 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Walk-Away Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, at risking overdoing a good thing, here's some more on walk-away splits: > I'm more interested in how your split 'em and walk away queens turn out. We've done walk-away splits it before with good results. The major problem is the 21-day queenless period, so they have to happen early to make it for the flow. Popping in (protected) cells at time of splitting reduces this 21-day delay to as little as 11, which is not a whole lot worse than the five or so that is average for mated queen introductions. Moreover, there is a pent-up effect from the queenless period. The nurse bees get a rest and are really ready to go when the first eggs are laid and the hive really broods up fast when that new queen comes on-stream. In the more normal queenright half, the hive and queen may not be quite as enthusiastic. We have observed that established queens tend to lay in fits and starts during the spring. >From my memory of years when this was the only method of splitting we used, the splits that raised a new queen usually overtook the half with the old queen by July 1st. If we pop in grafted cells, there also is the advantage of improving the stock -- assuming you picked a good mother... One thing about the walk-away splits that people may not appreciate is that it can be done anytime you happen to be in the yard, with no requirement for timing, waiting for queens, etc. If you are there and a hive needs splitting, you just split it. If you don't have a floor, use a lid for a floor. If you don't have a lid, use whatever you can find. If you are fast enough, you may not even need a veil (How fast can you run?). Fix things later when you come back. This one advantage puts these splits a week to ten days ahead of other splits at the start, if the other method means ordering and waiting for a queen. That makes the final outcome close. It is also an ideal solution to bees with swarm cells started. If you bust such hives in half, they are already on the way and you will have new queens in a shorter time than if they have to start from scratch. If you give each half a second brood box at the time of splitting, you will seldom see any more indication of swarming in either half. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:42:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Recordkeeping Method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I am in my fourth year and increasing hard to become a solid sideline beeKEEper. My record keeping and colony/queen tracking is probably the most troublesome area I am dealing with right now. With 4 hives it's easy, 33 (or is it 35 today?) a couple of trailers a number of fields and growing becomes more sophisticated and necessary to properly manage your bees and business. I am now using a discarded handheld dictation recorder to take "notes" in the field, I find it works well and I don't have to figure out how to annotate something on the spot. I can say what I want and filter the comments later. In bad weather the whole thing just slips into a ziplock bag and I record through the bag. (In heavy rain, make sure the drops don't hit the Bag or you won't hear anything.) The trouble I have in particular is a consistent method to track a colony and daughter colony from season to season and year to year while remaining coherent enough to be able to quickly note equipment needed in the morning I am headed out to this field again. Track current location of the colony in a group with the others in the same field, coordinate the dates all move to most efficiently rent 'em to make sure I maximize each colony and I don't promise more than..... You guys know what I mean. In short, I haven't seen a discussion of record keeping. I also note a lack of symposium/ short course subjects related to record keeping. Any bites? Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:16:12 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: New hive questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Susan and/or David Dannenberg wrote: > 1. My hive body is three or four weeks old. I started with all new > equipment and purchased bees. after a week or two I noticed ants on the > bottom board near the board feeder. Is this something to be concerned > about? Ants are never really desirable around beehives, but their presence can vary from just being a nuisance to being really destructive of hive parts and/or bees. There was a long discussion on ant control some time back, for which please see the archives http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 19:56:43 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Again, opinion here is divided. Personally, I kill the queen and put the mailing cage in straight away. I don't have time to kill queens and then come back to put a cage in. Some even put the freshly killed queen in the bottom of the cage so the bees know they have a dead queen. > I have heard of beekeepers releasing the queen straight into the hive but unless it is very good conditions, I feel that you will have more failures than successes. One thing that I believe has a lot to do with it is location. Or maybe I should say climate. Having worked with commercial beekeepers in New Zealand, I find requeening quite different to what I can do here in Sweden on lat 60. If I was to kill a queen and introduce a new queen in a cage straight away, I would not have much success. She would get kicked out of the hive too often. Our short and intense season might be the difference that make bees react so differently. So bear this in mind when discussing requeening, we are in different climates and get different reactions from the bees to a new queen. This should be tru in America too, southern beekeepers will have easier than canadians. Allen, any comments? You should see this too. > Overall what you do is what you feel comfortable with and what you have learnt from your mentors. I always remember a saying that Tilly Kuhnert from Germany told me many years ago. It was "If you put 4 beekeepers together, you will get 5 opinions". True? No, you will get at least 7 opinions........ -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:19:08 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: Names of Mite -Resistant-Hygienic Bee Breeders in Ontario Comments: To: dmcrory@omafra.gov.on.ca, Pat Westlake MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Bee-L subscribers, I have received a request from several beekeepers about names of Ontario Bee Breeders who involved in the Breeding Program for mite resitance. The following are members of the Ontario Bee Breeders' Association who have been involved in the tracheal mite -resistant bee program and breeding hygienic bees. They have been annually ANNUALLY testing and breeding for mite resistant stock. If they are not listed as Buckfast or Carniolan, then they have Ontario Selected stock. Q = Queens QC = Queen Cells N = Nucs Stock Name City/Town Telephone 1. Q QC N Jim Anderson Eganville 613-628-2890 2. Q QC N Davis/John Bryans Alvinston 519-847-5333 3. Q QC Barry Davies Seeley's Bay 613-387-3171 Buckfast Breeder 4. Gerhard Epp Leamington 519-326-3312 5. Q QC N Bill Ferguson Hensall 519-236-4979 6. Q Horst Goeldner Scarborough 416-265-0698 7. Q QC N Phil Laflamme Lanark 613-259-5553 8. Q QC N Paul Montoux Hagersville 905-768-5530 Buckfast Breeder 9. Q N William Murray White Lake 613-623-6793 10. Q N Rick Neilson Stratton 807-487-2387 Buckfast Breeder 11. Q QC N Neil Orr Wooler 613-397-3280 Carniolan Queens 12. Q QC Francois Petit Casselman 613-764-0172 13. Q QC N Graham Roberts Thornbury 519-599-3063 14. Q QC N Danny Walker Strathroy 519-245-5361 If you have any question, please contact the OBBA administrator, Pat Westlake, Phone 519-565-2622 e-mail: ontbee@tcc.on.ca or Dr. Medat Nasr Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Ontario Beekeepers' Association Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Tel: (519) 824-4120 Fax:(519)837-0442 e-mail: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:21:31 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Requeening In-Reply-To: <199905071915.PAA19511@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Having worked with commercial beekeepers in New Zealand, I find > requeening quite different to what I can do here in Sweden on lat 60. > If I was to kill a queen and introduce a new queen in a cage straight > away, I would not have much success... This should be tru in America > too, southern beekeepers will have easier than canadians. > Allen, any comments? You should see this too. Well, I have also found caged queen introductions to be an unpredictable thing, except in splits where spome of the older bees are allowed to drift out and we have over 90% success. Maybe it is the effect that you mention that makes it unpredictable. I *have* been able to kill queens and add a new queen on one visit, but my management has tended to move away from using pre-packaged queens, except at splitting time, and even there we are moving away from them again. I guess there is a real art to introducing caged queens and the conditions have to be right. I have good luck, but find requeening troublesome. I guess I have to admit that so much of what I do when I work the bees is so unconscious that until I sit down to write, I don't really know what I do and have done. When I am in the beeyard, I just do what the bees tell me to do without much thought. As a result, I likely would not do something that would get me into real trouble. But when I tell someone else what I do, he may not read the signs and signals that are so plain to me, and might have very different results. I gather you are pretty good at knowing what you can and cannot do at any given time, so you probably know what I mean. I guess my luck with salvage operations (requeening) has been such that my management has evolved to one where we make ample increase in the spring and then subsequently combine down any weaklings thereafter -- rather than one where we try to requeen losers. The fact that we are at about 55 degrees north is definitely a factor. We get one kick at the can, then the game goes on. If we don't hit each window of opportunity as it comes by -- and it comes fast in season -- we miss it entirely. That's it for the year. I think the bees 'know' this too. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 18:02:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Frank Subject: Re: Bees near D.C. In-Reply-To: <199905071524.LAA15472@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:48 PM 5/6/99 EDT, you wrote: >My daughter has a friend who is troubled with allergies and is looking for >local honey. Does anyone know of honey gathered as near to Washington, D.C. The April 7th edition of the Washington Post, page F7 has a good article on beekeepers and beekeeping in the Washinton area. Bill Frank Bill's Bees, Norfolk, Va Honey, candles, and fine bee products ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:57:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Queen Cells & Other Stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1.) I'm impressed by the number sending me private email saying they use emergency queens and walk-away splits in their own yard. How about that? 2.) I also have been answering a number of private questions lately and since I am such a slow typist and hate to waste words -- and I know this question will interest the group -- I am posting it here, too. 3.) I really hope others, when they are writing about bees privately and they think that their words will be of general interest to a wider audience than the one person who asked, will post a copy of their thoughts here for all to enjoy. It is not necessary to identify the enquirer. 4.) What I write is from my own perspective and I always enjoy informed debate. So please feel free to refute any of my ideas presented here or challenge me in my facts. I love to be proven wrong, so if any of you have been holding back to spare my feelings, fire away. I don't mind. Here's the reply... --- > Thanks for the help and advise in the past. I'm rearing > queens using the Hopkins method and could use some pointers on getting the > queen cells lodged into existing brood areas without damage. First of > all the cells aren't pointing down like they do when the bees place them. > They stick out more like a drone cell. Is this a problem? I'm not familiar with the Hopkins method, but even when bees raise cells by extending a normal worker cell, they cell hangs down and they float the larva out of the horizontal into the vertical portion, so I wonder if your bees are strong enough in numbers, young enough, and well enough fed? Good cells will have excess royal jelly in the base area after the larva pupates. If you sample a cell and it does not have some left, throw the cell -- and maybe the rest of the batch -- away. Jayzee BeeZee cell cups are transparent and you can tell in a second if the cell is well fed. In the case of other cells, you can -- with care --cut, scratch or tear open a queen cell that is near hatching (the pupa has colour) and look at the pupa and also check the supply of food. One or two cells here and there from a batch will tell the tale. If you have done it right, you can then seal the pupa back in by pushing the pieces together lightly and use the cell. If you didn't do a good job of opening the cell, well, sacrificing one for the many is not a bad thing here. > Second, when I try to push them into surrounding brood areas > I'm afraid I'll damage the queen cell or I don't get it stuck > in good enough and the cell ends up falling out. Is there any > tricks to this that would help me? I usually use cell protectors. The JayZee BeeZee ones are cheap and good and have prongs to push into the comb. FWIW, I don't use the prongs, but hang the cell between top bars or the faces of two combs or into some brace comb. It does not take much to suspend one, and the bees will attach it anyhow. The only important thing is to be sure the bees will not abandon the area where you place it if the temperature gets cold at night. Hope this helps allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 20:14:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: 7 swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I sent a message out week or so ago and described how I had collected 7 swarms in one day and that after 10 days I still did not see any eggs being laid in any of the 7 hived swarms. I am happy to report that I went out today and checked each hive and found eggs in all 7. Not very many eggs, and not all together either. But at least I know I got the queen. But I also found in 4 of the 7 hives, queen cells (2 to 3 of them) on the side of a couple of the frames. Not on the bottom of the frames. If everything that I have read and learned from people on this list about the queen in a swarm, then I must believe that the queens that I have in the 7 hives are the old queens and she isn't doing a very good job and is probably being replaced by bees. My question is this: Should I just let them replace her on their own or should I purchase some queens? What are the pros and cons of each....