From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:29 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27401 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11149 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11149@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:20 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9908E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 79277 Lines: 1670 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:35:16 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Name that honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Had a honey this year that I'd like to I.D. Hope you can help. Here are the particulars: The honey is quite dark -- a wide-mouth pint jar appears black; held up to the light, it's a deep auburn or mohogany (sp?). Taste is strong but nice, fuity, with an almost sour aftertaste. I'm in the southern Piedmont of NC, very close to the SC line. Primary honey plants are white dutch and hop clover, sumac, and tulip poplar. A very early spring drought suppressed the clover. The flow for this dark honey appeared to begin in the middle of the tulip poplar flow and continue once the poplar was done. (Figured this out based on staggered harvest and looking at the way supers were filled.) Cotton had not bloomed, so it's not that. Tobacco was blooming at this time (there's a lot grown around here), but I'm not aware of any tobacco within 3 miles of the beeyard. I'm very familiar with "poplar honey" though I think what I've had is typically mixed with a lighter honey -- either clover here or basswood and sourwood in the mountains. Is pure tulip poplar nearly black? Or do I have something else here? Please speculate, I'm looking for leads. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:13:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Francis wrote: > I have three hives, that I plan to winter, when it becomes winter here in > Kentucky (US). I want to put them in an old shed on my property. I know this > has many advntages - any caveats . . . or are there any suggestions to > maximize the benefits of doing this - At what temperature would you > recommend doing this. I cannot imagine any advantage of moving bees indoors anywhere in Kentucky, or for that matter much farther north than that. My grandfather used to move bees indoors in the Green Bay area of Wisconsin, but gave that up as being far too much work for little or no advantage. Here in southeastern Michigan I have never so much as wrapped my hives for the 21 years I have had bees, and unless mites or some other disaster st\rikes they do just fine. They basically need protection from the wind, adequate ventilation and food, and a strong queen. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:30:20 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I have three hives, that I plan to winter, when it becomes winter here in >Kentucky (US). I want to put them in an old shed on my property. Why in the shed? I kept bees outside in Northern Kentucky (12 miles NW of Falmouth). They wintered just fine outside on the top of a ridge. Is there a reason, other than the cold, that you want to move them inside? Linda (now in Ohio & still wintering outside with no special protection) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 08:30:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JOHN TAYLOR Subject: Absconding Bees In-Reply-To: <199908041435.KAA23009@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would appreciate some ideas about why I've lost two hives of bees . . . Despite fall treatment, only one of two hives made it through the winter this year. This hive was looking good all spring. Early summer I caught a swarm and re-started a second hive. I noticed at the time that #1 didn't have nearly the number of bees coming and going as it had. I didn't open it at that time. One week after installing bees in #2 I opened it back up, re-installed the other five frames, found good brood pattern and a nice fat queen. They looked good. I also noticed no activity in #1. Opened it up and it was empty - no bees, no honey, no pollen. Put that hive in storage. I went on three week vacation shortly after that. Came back to find the same situation in #2. Why am I loosing bees? Is it way to late to order bees now? John Taylor Southeast Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:43:21 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Farrington/Bequia Canvas Subject: non-improving hive Comments: To: Bee-L submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all; I have two hives, both feral colonies obtained this April. One hive is = doing very well; the other hive is a non-performer. The poor hive is working on only two full frames and will not expand. = There is a queen and this is at least its second queen - I have seen the = new queen cells. The newest queen is about six weeks old. I have taken some steps to try to help... 1) I have added bees from the good hive to the poor hive; all that = happened is that there were a few more bees - no expansion beyond the = two frames. 2) I am feeding the bees with pollen substitute mixed with corn syrup = and also giving them sugar water in a 1:1 mix. This is to try to trick = then into thinking there is some kind of nectar flow. They eat the patties and drink the syrup - still no expansion. I also = started feeding them thinking there might not be enough bees to keep the = queen and larvae fed. Introducing a commercial queen is not a possibility - we cannot get them = here. Is there anything else I can do to try to make this hive thrive? Add = more bees from the good hive? The bees all seem healthy - they are active foragers. There are no = distressed bees near the entrance or on the ground, no Foul Brood, no = mites - they are not known to be in Bequia although I'm sure they are = coming...=20 Thanks for your advice, Bob in Bequia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:51:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: collecting feral Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Smoke or Bee-Go will NOT move a queen out of a brood nest into the open! This is almost September. Why would you try to get bees at this time of year anyhow? You would never get them strong enough to get through the winter. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:47:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Checking Queens for varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom; In the states, there is NO "varroa infested" area. Varroa is in all 50 states and essentially every county within the states. Ireland will be that way shortly. A reliable queen breeder PROTECTS his bees, just as you protect your tools; and he dare not ship bees with mites because he surely would lose customers overnight. Of course, as in all walks of life, there are those unskilled, unknowledgeable queen breeders who won't be around very long anyhow. Hope this helps. George - 66 years studying bees scientifically and teaching good beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:02:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paula Franke Subject: Re: Honey flavors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe McManus wrote: >It is apparent to me that those who have read my last post on flavored honey >did not understand what I meant. I did not say that the honey gets its >flavor from the fruit, but from the flower of the fruit. The nectar of the >flower of whatever fruit it's from is what determines the flavor. This reminds of something I observed last summer (around late-July and early-August). We have a lot of wild blackberry brambles on our farm and I'm never able to pick them all (a very small percentage in fact). Anyway, while I was picking some of it late in the season, I noticed a lot of our bees foraging on the blackberry fruit that was over-ripe. Several of the brambles were so filled with bees, that I just moved on to another area and let the girls have at it. When we pulled a super later, we found one frame half filled with a bright orange-colored honey with a distinct flavor that we really couldn't recognize. Don't know if there was a connection, but thought it was worth a mention. BTW, I saw them doing the same thing this year, but I can tell if they are our regular bees or those belonging to the many swarms that decided to take up residence in the woods last year (and I'm delighted those that have "gone native" appear to be healthy and happy). Paula Head of Happy Hollow Farm Tollesboro, KY ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:14:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Francis wrote: >I have three hives, that I plan to winter, when it becomes winter here in >Kentucky (US). I want to put them in an old shed on my property. I know this >has many advntages - any caveats . . . or are there any suggestions to >maximize the benefits of doing this - At what temperature would you >recommend doing this. John: The weather in KY allows for many cleansing flights thoughout the winter and I would recommend leaving your hives at there present location. You should prepare for winter by treating colonies for disease, provide an upper entrance, reduce the entrance, get the hive up 8" from the ground and make sure they have enough stores. Usually only beekeepers in the far north winter there hive in buildings. Marc Studebaker Geneva, IN. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:38:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EARMAILS Subject: Re: non-improving hive In-Reply-To: <199908291213.IAA10796@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>I have two hives, both feral colonies obtained this April. One hive is doing very well; the other hive is a non-performer. The poor hive is working on only two full frames and will not expand. I have had that a few times. If they can't seem to pick up by themselves, or if there is a smaller than normal hive coming through the winter, I add frames of sealed brood from strong hives. If there are fresh eggs in there the better because I have also noticed with the occasional hive that wouldn't pick up that they like to requeen several times, so with added fresh eggs they might raise themselves a queen that is more productive. Just adding bees from a stronger hive doesn't seem to help mine as much as adding sealed brood. Usually by summer time such a hive will be going all right. >>>Introducing a commercial queen is not a possibility - we cannot get them here. During the next weeks I will work my hives and move them back into the beehouse for the winter. If I find one hive that is too weak and not able to pick up in my opinion I will have no choice but to combine it with another hive. While there may be enough time for them to raise another queen it might be way too late in our northern season for her to raise enough new brood to get her through the winter. It's probably possible for us to somehow buy/import queens from elsewhere however, for a number of reasons, we are trying hard to remain selfsufficient in that regard. We are only some small homeowners keeping bees but we try. >>>The bees all seem healthy - they are active foragers. There are no distressed bees near the entrance or on the ground, no Foul Brood, no mites - they are not known to be in Bequia although I'm sure they are coming. Kinda similar here (our location: Northern British Columbia, just about underneath the Alaskan border). Our northern area was considered being under quarantaine for the past year or two because we were still mite free. Now it's too late except for some isolated pockets like possibly our valley. Husband is very afraid to purchase bees or queens from elsewhere to add to ours. So far ours had remained healthy and we never had to deal yet with any sickness or infestations. >>>Bob in Bequia. Bequia is where, if I may ask? Ma. / Nass Valley - British Columbia CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:48:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EARMAILS Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils In-Reply-To: <199908291420.KAA11916@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>Usually only beekeepers in the far north winter their hive in buildings. We are one of them. When husband got into bees his decision was to house them in a beehouse. There isn't really any need for it from the bees point of view. But it is convenient for the beekeeper for a number of reasons. We move the hives into the beehouse (more or less just a shed) for the winter and come spring move the hives to outside locations. The beehouse for us just means that the hive bodies are out of the weather, under cover, there is electricity in the shed, and also we are now putting the hives on boxes where we can have a lightbulb burning underneath which helps some in keeping them through the winter (we have a big moisture problem due to the weather's fluctuations). A beehouse helps the beekeeper, not necessarily the bees. >>>I cannot imagine any advantage of moving bees indoors anywhere in Kentucky, or for that matter much farther north than that. I had to laugh at that comment. Advantages for example are ... snowing like crazy, it's dark, -25 or -30 celsius, northeast wind howling, and there treks hubby out through the shoulderdeep snow (kinda that deep, it sure seems that deep) and checking if the bees are still there. Not that he can do much if they are in trouble, he wouldn't be able to open them up and correct a problem at that time. But he's thankful the hives are in the beehouse, it's not a fancy one, just some shed he calls "the beehouse". So he steps up and stands behind the hives (we went into last winter with four hives), puts on the electric light (beats holding a flashlight with your teeth), knocks a bit on the hives and judges by the quick uproar - yep, still ok, still kicking, seem fine, or even uuh ohh what's going on now. Then he lifts the lids and checks on the glasses with syrup, gives another if one is empty, turns the lids around if there was condensation underneath, and if all seems well, turns off the light and treks back to the house back through the deep winter. It certainly makes the beehouse seem like an oasis of peace when just a few feet the snow is deep, still falling, wind blows, it's dark and gruelling, but he knows that shed he so fanciful calls a beehouse gives off just that extra iddy bit of protection that might make the difference in his bees survival for another looong winter. It's much hard work moving the bees back to the beehouse for the winter, and I dread doing that work shortly. But I assure everyone, it's worth every bit of the work come winter. Just to know that with that they might have a better chance of survival. And as you all know, there is almost nothing more beautiful when suddenly come spring, one is out there cleaning up a bit on top of the still frozen ground, doing the first of the spring work in the first real warm rays of the new season - hey, what's that? That's different. What IS that? And THEN you realize - THE BEES ARE OUT! The bees are flying. And you know that all that hard and seemingly endless work with them through the winter has paid off. Because they are flying again. What can be more beautiful at that particular moment. Ma. / Nass Valley - British Columbia CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:07:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EARMAILS Subject: Re: Absconding Bees In-Reply-To: <199908291210.IAA10716@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>I would appreciate some ideas about why I've lost two hives of bees . . . Why am I loosing bees? Is it way too late to order bees now? I'm no expert and we are just some small homeowners keeping bees. This I have learned through the years. Those who are experts can judge things in a hive much much better by just listening to a hive, opening the cover and having a look at the top frames, without really having to do much more. I'm not that good and I've learned the hard way (lost hives) that if I take such a seemingly easy route, I can't get very far. Maybe in another 30 or so years I will be more experienced. Meanwhile we decided to keep doing this ... When I check a hive I do it very thoroughly, very careful of course too. I take out each frame, check it out from both sides, see what's happening, and put it aside in an empty box. I do that from top box down to the bottom box. Always careful and when I see the queen I catch her and put her in a jar until I'm done, or if that is already possible put her back onto the frames to let her disappear into her dark chambers. But I do look at every side of every frame. I don't do that every week but whenever I need to work with them. This way I know what's going on in that hive, I can try to manipulate the frames a bit, I can move brood or bees from one hive to another, or combine hives. We have had several hives at the beginning that didn't make it and we feel that was because we weren't checking them out in a very careful way. Since we have been doing it this way, we have had more success in keeping the hives through the winters and also through the summers. It's not foolproof and I have read that this type of investigation into a hive is not recommended by knowledgeable beekeepers, but I don't know what else to do to judge if a hive is well on it's way or on it's way out. Since we have been checking this thorough, since that time I have become this family's beekeeper. Husband is too impatient and can't take the time for that. I don't mind doing this because I want to see what's going on, I can work slowly and carefully. It's hell on my back but I feel it's well worth any such efforts. Of course we only have a few hives. Don't know what one can do who is a commercial beekeeper with lots of hives. Then too, being small, having only a few hives, if they die out there is nothing to fall back onto. With many hives then it's maybe easier to worry about replacements since there are still other hives. Ma. / Nass Valley - British Columbia CANADA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:46:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: non-improving hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The old advice of "Take your losses in the fall" is very sound advice. Weaklings, snotty hives, and poor producers get their queen removed and their boxes combined with good strong hives. Just starting to see some varroa here in SE CT USA they stand out on the drone brood that was between the supers and the hive bodies. Bees are working the Japanese Knotweed now and a vine that looks kind of like clematis but with many small white blossoms. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:43:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Name that honey Comments: cc: ghankins@ac.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/29/99 4:57:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ghankins@AC.NET writes: << I'm very familiar with "poplar honey" though I think what I've had is typically mixed with a lighter honey -- either clover here or basswood and sourwood in the mountains. Is pure tulip poplar nearly black? Or do I have something else here? >> In hot, dry weather, when nectar sources dry up, bees sometimes suck on elderberries, wild grapes and other fruits. Does it taste like concentrated fruit juice? Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:52:55 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bee club Subject: Re: collecting feral Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi George/All, On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:51:36 EDT GImasterBK@AOL.COM writes: >Smoke or Bee-Go will NOT move a queen out of a brood nest into the >open! Maybe this would not work for Italians, but what about "Apis cereane"? (sp?) "Apis cereane" bees are the only type of feral bees here. >This is almost September. Why would you try to get bees at this time >of year >anyhow? You would never get them strong enough to get through the >winter. Sorry I did not tell you that I live In Hong Kong. The season to start collecting feral hives here is coming up soon. (the winters here are mild) Justin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:42:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Name that honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tulip Poplar, MY FAVORITE HONEY. is very dark, but it has a very positive "trademark" that identifies it. Hold a jar of it up to sun, and real tulip poplar will have a definite reddish or maroon color to it. If t is not reddish, you have something else which is not tulip poplar. In addition to a wonderful taste, real tulip poplar is quite high in fructose and lower in glucose. Hence, it will keep for years WITHOUT crystallizing. It used to be the NUMBER 1 honey in Maryland, but urban growth, and the road building destroyed a lot of our woods that were filled with T. P. trees. I hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:51:15 +0100 Reply-To: awcannon Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: awcannon Subject: Re: non-improving hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Farrington/Bequia Canvas To: Sent: 28 August 1999 20:43 Subject: non-improving hive > Hello all; > I have two hives, both feral colonies obtained this April. One hive is = > doing very well; the other hive is a non-performer. > The poor hive is working on only two full frames and will not expand. = > There is a queen and this is at least its second queen - I have seen the = > new queen cells. The newest queen is about six weeks old. > This sounds like a poor queen despite supersedure, could be the strain of bees. I suggest that you unite the two colonies to make one big strong one then after overwintering them make yourself a nuc next year. Feral colonies may not have thesame resistance to disease like hived ones. at least a beekeepers bees will have been looked after hygenically (or should have been) albert. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:09:52 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Name that honey In-Reply-To: <199908291156.HAA10503@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 28 Aug 99, at 19:35, Greg Hankins wrote: > Had a honey this year that I'd like to I.D. Hope you can help. Here are > the particulars: > Please speculate, I'm looking for leads. After reviewing the list I can only suggest 'honey dew' a secretion of aphids, usual in a drought situation. We had it about 5 years ago, but not since, so it doesn't appear to be a regular occurrence. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Headset magnifiers **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:48:21 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Disposing of Varroa strips, Apistan treatment timing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ken. Thanks for your reply to my post. I am saddened that you took my comments as "ear bashing." I did not intend my comments to be taken personally, but professionally. If you set yourself up as an authority by making recommendations you must expect that they may be called in question. I think if you'll read my post again you will see that I quoted the U.S. Apistan label because I don't have access to the UK label. I also stated that I can't speak about Bavarol because I didn't have a copy of the label. I didn't "assume that the manufacturer's recommendations are the same for Bayvarol as Apistan." I plainly stated that "I suspect the UK Apistan label will read similar to the U.S. label," not that they were the same. I am well aware that many U.S. beekeepers are members of the list. That is why I wrote to the list to show them, and our other readers, some of the problems in reading label text. Our Apistan label clearly states that the chemical is to treat Varroa mites, in bee colonies, in brood nests. The Control statement says to "remove honey supers before application of Apistan strips and do not replace until the end of the control period. Effective control may be achieved by treating hives in the spring before the first honey flow and in the fall after the last honey flow. Honey supers may be replaced after strips are removed." These statements are evident of the intent not to use the strips in supers, where there are no bees, and no mites. I would need the whole text of the UK label to say for sure but I'm thinking that if it says: "The strips should be left in the colonies for a maximum of six weeks and then removed," it does not mean they can be used in hives (or supers) without bees. The intent of the label is to treat bees with mites not combs nor moths. I interpret Bayer's statement (if made in the form of your statement "for the diagnosis of severe infestations the product may be used at any time) to mean that the strips may be used in the brood nest for several days with the use of a Varroa trap or sticky board for mite detection purposes. That is quite a different thing than hanging strips in empty honey supers to control moths. When using the strips as a detection device for two or three days I would not expect any movement of chemical up into the honey supers. If the strips are in a hive with honey supers for up to 56 days (our label) I might expect some carrying of the chemical into the honey supers by normal bee traffic. Our label does not allow detection with honey supers on the hive. >From a practical and biological point of view that is not the time to do Varroa detection anyway. I still contend Ken, that it is unwise and probably illegal even in the UK to "suggest" or recommend the use of a chemical for other pests, or for use in other manners than is prescribed on the label. Here in the U.S. you are required to be a licensed consultant to make prescriptions on the use of chemicals and if you do not do so according to the state and federal labels you open yourself up to litigation, fines, or the revoking of your license. I do fully endorse your efforts to encourage beekeepers to use the products available to them in the correct manner for mite control. When pesticides are available, I think it is foolish not to use them, UNLESS you can find an integrated pest management approach that will work as well, efficiently, and cost effectively. I don't understand the reference to putting slides in the wrong order. You certainly don't mean to suggest that making such a common mistake can be compared to making a recommendation beyond the scope of your expertise, without any scientific reference, contrary to the label, and possibly resulting in contaminated honey combs. Apistan treatment timing: Aaron Morris quotes a comment from Dave Eyre on Aug. 23 about not opening hives in the snow to remove strips. Our field work here in Washington State in the early days of fluvalinate strips, and then Apistan, showed that when strips were placed in colonies in the fall at temperatures in the low 40s F. to mid 50s F., and the temperature stayed at that level for several days during the treatment, that no Varroa mites fell on the sticky boards and screens we'd placed on the bottom board. When the ambient temperatures climbed into the mid 50s to mid 60s F. mites could be observed on the sticky boards. This suggested to me that colony density at low temperatures was such that the bees didn't move around in the colony enough to transmit the chemical among their sisters. In addition, we and commercial beekeepers noted that colonies in hives that had been opened to receive the strips (for detection/survey purposes) in late September to mid October, at those temperatures, reduced their colony size. They noted a definite shrinkage in colonies that had been surveyed when compared with those not surveyed. Beekeepers at first blamed the chemical for killing their bees. I stated that research showed little impact on bees from the chemical and that I suspected that opening hives in such cold weather and breaking the clusters was the cause of the shrinkage. On the basis of repeated detection efforts in cold weather I made recommendations to the manufacturer that the label should be changed to include a temperature recommendation. The current U.S. label says: "For best chemical distribution, use Apistan when daytime high temperatures are at least 50 degrees F." So I think it is important for beekeepers to take into account bee biology and behavior as well as temperature when using any medication, miticide, or even management strategy. As an example: How much damage is done to colonies of bees leaving North or South Dakota with six inches of snow on the ground in ambient temperatures in the mid 20s to the 30s F. for a 1300 mile trip to California, arriving in temperatures in the 60's F.? The solution is to, as much as possible, change our management strategies so that we can conduct treatments at times and temperatures appropriate to normal bee colony behavior. That might mean spring treatments in the far north of the continent or when heavy fall nectar flows prevent treatment at ideal temperatures. Best regards, James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:00:38 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@fuse.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy and Dave Subject: Late swarm Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We got a call from a local dog walker that there was a swarm hanging from a tree in the cemetery. Apparently it came from a feral colony in a hollow tree in the cemetery. We picked up the swarm and combined it with a small hive. We had excellent results. Last year we used the newspaper between the boxes to combine a swarm with a hive. Didn't work very well. Lost a lot of bees. This year, we collected the swarm in a cardboard box. It was a very small swarm, only about a pound of bees. We found and removed the queen. Left the bees in the box for about 3 hours, spritzing them with sugar water every now and again. Just at sunset, we took the cardboard box up to the beeyard and placed it in front of the weak hive. Sprayed sugar water on the hive entrance and again on the bees in the cardboard. Within 15 minutes, the bees from the cardboard were marching in lines up the cement blocks to the hive entrance. There was no fighting. We figured the swarm still had enough honey to be accepted by the hive. We had just placed Apistan the day before, so are hoping any mites will be taken care of. It worked this time! Don't know about next time. Judy in Kentucky ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:20:47 -0300 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Name that honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Hankins wrote: > > Had a honey this year that I'd like to I.D. Greg: Geographically, we are not in the same area but.............could there be either buchwheat ( a field crop) or goldenrod in your area?? The words sound like buckwheat honey, but aroma is hard to communicate this way. Just wondering along with you. Eunice Prince Edward Island, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:15:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Patty Mix offer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a 1/3 of a pail of patty mix leftover. It is a mixture of Crisco, tera, and sugar. It is for the treatment of trachial mites and foulbrood. It came from Betterbee last week. I will barter for anything. Perhaps someone needs it for fall treatment. I would take a bushel basket of anything for it! I live in the Albany, NY area. E-mail me if you are interested. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:16:55 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Splits, Supercedure queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here I am, replying to myself, again. But I have a reason: I decided to join the IBRA again, after a ~twenty year lapse, and to make some use of their library. With the credit cards, the web and email, what once were slow ponderous processes for those of us in the colonies, may have become much streamlined. Seems to be so far, anyhow. I have been bothered by these discussions we have had because so much has been based on opinion and hearsay, not scientific experiment and/or observation. Therefore, I dug deep into my pocket and decided to order a literatrure search. A little while back, I received the results and have pondered them since. As far as I can see, I am free to share some of the references with you. Although the IBRA website for ordering material has a rather intimidating order form that prohibits sharing photocopies ordered, I think that search results, or parts of them, are not top secret. > > ...I have several times removed a queen and, since I read that bees when > > rearing emergency queens will use older larvae, I have gone back in > > after 4 days and removed all capped cells. Then no larvae over 24 hours > > old has a chance. I always find capped cells on the 4th day. This > > suggests that larvae older than 24 hours were used... In the summary I received, there is reference to the following study: >>>Punnett, E. N. and Winston, M. L. Events following queen removal in colonies of European-derived honey bee races (Apis mellifera). Insectes Sociaux (1983) 30 (4) 376-383 [En, fr, B] The timing of queen rearing and swarming are described after queens were removed from colonies of European-derived honeybee races in Canada. Queen cell construction began within one day of queen loss, and 91% of the queens which emerged were eggs at the time of queens loss. Queen cells Were evenly distributed over the comb face, and 4% of the brood reared as queens were moved from worker cells to queen cups... (truncated for brevity)<<< "[En, fr, B] " Means English, French, and 'B" means yes, I can order a copy of the article! Do you think I should? Interestingly enough, one of the authors of the above study also wrote this: >>>Winston, M. Research review. British Columbia Honey Producers' Association Newsletter (1983) (No. 3) 5 [En, B] This short note lists reasons against requeening colonies by killing the queen and letting them rear new queens. It also reports evidence that, after a queen was removed, workers could and did move brood from worker cells to queen cups, where queens developed. E. Crane. Dept. Biological Sci., Simon Fraser Univ., Burnaby, BC, Canada.<<< And -- just to keep things interesting -- here's another one for you that might seem to conflict with the the first, a bit, at least -- as far as I can see, anyhow: >>>Soczek, Z. Investigation of methods for obtaining valuable honeybee queens from emergency queen cells. [Poszukiwanie sposobu uzyskiwania wartosciowych matek pszczelich z matecznikow ratunkowych.]. Pszczelnicze Zeszyty Naukowe (1971) 15 (1/2) 53-59 [Pl, ru\en, B] Zaklad Pszczelnictwa, Skierniewice, Poland. It was observed that, under natural conditions, workers which had become queenless chose cells containing larvae up to 162 h old at the moment of queenlessness, and built these into emergency queen cells during the next 4 days. Similar building was done on cells containing larvae 54-78 h old if the size of these cells was increased by means of a cell-moulding stick. This is the basis of a simple method of rearing queens.P. Walker.<<< I gather the 162H is hours from laying and would be about a 3.75 day old larva. Where do you order searches and reprints, you are probably wondering? http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/photo-fm.shtml allen ...Thinking maybe we can increase the 'INFORMED' content of the list for "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:07:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Crutchfield Subject: Wholesale buyers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a wholesale buyer of honey around the missouri area. thanks preacher ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:00:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Constill@AOL.COM Subject: Bee Tree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From the description this sounds like it could be Wisteria. Do not plant this unless you have the room and the time to train each plant to a tree shape. We mistakenly planted this in our yard, and it has taken over by vining around the fence, the trees and bushes and the entire sump (recharge basin) behind our house. If you stand still long enough in our yard, it will wind itself around you too! Our honey is a lovely wildflower mix, the wisteria does not seem to overpower, since it blooms early it is possible the bees eat all of that themselves. Conni Still, Bayport Long Island ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:43:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: edward markus Subject: Fw: Melting cappings and making candles Comments: To: BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: edward markus To: BEE-L Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 8:39 PM Subject: Melting cappings and making candles > Even here in the cloudy Pacific Northwest Washington state late summer > provides us with enough sun to make a solar wax melter function quite well. > I built mine from an old wooden tool chest some one had left at the > transfer station (the dump, the land fill, the incinerator and so on, read > discarded objects) lined it with foil -covered foam gleaned from a lady who > made round hot tub covers from rectangular and expensive foam insulation > board. It needed a liner to direct the flow of wax into a container at the > bottom of this chest. I found some discarded sheets of metal from a tin can > factory and used their bright finish to enhance the reflective factor inside > this creation and control the flow of wax with some inventive bending. The > catch container is a two quart Pyrex measuring cup (big son-of-gun) > purchased quite reasonably at a outlet mall! The cover for the melter is a double pane > bathroom window discarded by a commercial glass installer which just > happened to fit. This apparatus is big and heavy enough to need lawn mower > wheels to move it around, several of which I happened to have. It sits > semi-upright on its wheels tipped back to match the angle of the sun here > this time of year ( I have a nice barn and it is partly full of junk. The > idea is to run out of this stuff about the time they cart me to the rest > home). The point is, get a container, insulate the thing, figure a way to > control the melting wax and toss a lid on that will permit the passage of UV > rays from Old Sol. Aim it more or less at the sun and you are in business. > I hold cappngs in a tough, nylon one gallon paint straining bag from the > hardware store. I literally just hang it from a nail. The result is > reasonably clean wax in a useful container. As to candles, melting and > pouring ( all I have managed so far) a tip gleaned from a gentleman at a candle making > demonstration last winter eliminated a lot of fooling around.. This true > genius used an old microwave oven from a thrift store, a dandy idea. And it > just holds a two quart Pyrex measuring cup nicely. It asked my mother the > garage sale maven (read jumble sale maven in Britain) to search out a $10.00 > special which she soon did, and it had a meat probe for temperature cooking. > It sounds terrible but the whole thing works fine. Plus the meat probe will > hold wax at the recommended temperatures to pour using plastic molds and not > melt the form with the candle wax. If you can figure out how to run a > microwave for which you do not have the instructions and do not burn the > house down ( take it to the barn with the junk) you are in business! I had > more fun putting the whole thing together than using it but that is typical > for me. To finish finally, this gentleman heated and poured first run wax > (from your solar melter)into a two quart wax -coated milk container, > through a double cheese cloth layer, clothes pinned over the mouth of the > container. Store this as is and tear off the paper container when you are > ready to remelt in the Pyrex then pour from it's spout to make candles. > Check your temperatures before you pour. If it doesn't go well start again > and try until it does work. (Sounds like beekeeping) Edward Markus - > Heart's Home Farm > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:10:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: Checking Queens for varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett wrote : > > Hello All > > Maybe this is a crazy notion, but here goes anyway!. > > Suppose a Queen Breeder in a varroa infested area wishes to send queens to a > (presumed) non infested area, can the queen and the accompanying workers be > examined with magnification prior to dispatch to ensure that these bees at > least do not have the varroa mites?. If it is a proposition, then obviously > the time taken to do this would have to be taken into account in determining > the price. > > As I said, maybe it is a crazy idea - what do the members of the list think?. > > Sincerely > Believe me Tom, this IS a crazy idea. I guarantee you that within two years every Irish beekeeper will have varroa mites in his hives, no matter how carefully you investigate the bees you are shipping. IMHO the only sound advice is : use medicaments before it is too late and use them as described on the label. Hugo ps. varroa is not the end : whe are living (happily) with it for more than 10 years ;-( -- Hugo Thone (VJ93) email htho@se.bel.alcatel.be Alcatel Telecom phone (32) 3 240 94 52 F. Wellesplein 1 fax (32) 3 240 99 49 B2018 - Antwerpen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:18:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 08/29/1999 8:03:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tvf@UMICH.EDU writes: << Here in southeastern Michigan I have never so much as wrapped my hives for the 21 years I have had bees, and unless mites or some other disaster st\rikes they do just fine >> I would echo these thoughts for central Piedmont Virginia. I've never found winter to be a problem for the bees and what you speak of sounds like a great deal of work for very little return. Besides, you would need to move them far away at first, let them acclimate to that area and then a week or two later move them back again. As the old saying goes, you can move them an inch or five miles - not much inbetween. My advice would be to save your energy. Regards, Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:27:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils In-Reply-To: <199908301339.JAA03841@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As the old saying goes, you can move them an inch > or five miles - not much inbetween. My advice would be to save your energy. Like a lot of old sayings, this one is baloney. There is an element of truth in it and it is for rank beginners, so they will not get themselves into trouble. Sorta like 'Don't touch the stove or you'll burn yourself'. Adults touch stoves and don't burn themselves. Any knowledgeable beekeeper moves hives anywhere he/she likes by observing bee behaviour and knowing when a move will cause confusion and when it will not. Generally, any time the bees have not been flying much -- or preferably at all -- for a few days, you can do pretty well as you please, if you take a few precautions. There is lots of discussion in the archives under moving bees and observation hives. Frankly, I don't know why this type of statement keeps coming back on what is *supposed* to be 'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology' or how it gets approved. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:06:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Shack'n up the goils MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This thread has been deleted often because it resembles so much of the Porn Mail that abounds on the internet. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:53:27 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Misuse of strips In-Reply-To: <199908280115.VAA12809@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT David Eyre wrote: > Soapbox? A pulpit might be more appropiate! It must be nice to live > in a world of absolute black and white, no half measures or if and > what if? When I read the Apistan label in my pulpit it was written on white paper in black ink. There was no gray, no half measures, ifs or what ifs. > but in your world of B&W it would state 'leave them out'. No, use them and take them out as instructed on the product label, even if you need snowshoes to trek out to your hives. Black snowshoes on white snow. > Be honest Aaron, faced with those two choices I know which one you > would choose. A little less pontificating and more honesty? I pride myself on honesty. I honestly have trekked through the snow to remove Apistan strips when the treatment period was up. It's not a choice of don't use the strips and lose your bees OR use the strips, save your bees and ignore the label. The choice I've been "pontificating" on is, USE THE STRIPE AS DIRECTED. > ... long after the golden rod was gone we were finding signs of varroa still > coming into the hives (from other collapsing hives in the area). Too many grey areas!!!!!! Perhaps things are different with climates in Ontario with Great Lakes effect and all, but in my parts honey supers are off by October 1. That's the longest I will wait. For harvesting the fall flows, the bees could used a while longer to cure the honey but I cannot wait any longer to use fall medications. By 10/1 unless it's an abnormally warm autumn, the bees are reluctant to take syrup (2:1 with Fumidil-B) and it's VERY late for Apistan. Lateness aside, Apistan on 10/1 comes out very near Thanksgiving weekend (last weekend in November) and there have been times when snowshoes were required. Regardless, the strips come out as directed on the label. Honestly! James Bach's points: > ... when strips were placed in colonies in > the fall at temperatures in the low 40s F. to mid 50s F., ... no Varroa > mites fell (... and ...) when the ambient temperatures climbed into the mid 50s > to mid 60s F. mites could be observed on the sticky boards. This suggested to me that colony > density at low temperatures was such that the bees didn't move around in the > colony enough to transmit the chemical among their sisters. Agreed. Proper placement of strips on a warm fall day when the bees cover most if not all frames is not the same as it would be on a cool (perhaps cold) day when the bees are clustered. And this is where the black and white label intsructions DO become vague. "One strip for every five frames of bees." I do not have a label here so I am paraphrasing. Frames of bees at mid-fifties is not the same as frames of bees at low-forties. Temperature fluctuations are important considerations. Treatment at the times I treat must include this beekeeper's best guess as to where my cluster will form as well as a lot of hope and prayer that the weather will be sufficiently kind in October and November to allow my bees to contact the strips enough to get adequate control. Covered previously (GETPOST BEE-L 019021 021927). Balancing fall treatments with fall honey flow is a tough act. This does not change that 45 days is 45 days. > On the basis of repeated detection efforts in cold weather I made > recommendations to the manufacturer that the label should be changed to > include a temperature recommendation. The current U.S. label says: "For best > chemical distribution, use Apistan when daytime high temperatures are at least > 50 degrees F." Sounds to me that the colony shrinkage can be attributed to repeated maniplulations rather than a single exercise to remove the strips. Warm "bee comfortable" days in or around 10/1 are common. It is easy to find a day when the bees are not clustered to insert strips. I discount breaking the cluster is a problem at this calendar time. Removing the strips in or around December 1 more times than not will disrupt the cluster. However, at that time the disruption is for a minute or two tops, and I can't say I've noticed a negative effect in my hives in my locations. I contend that breaking the cluster to remove the strips is a far lesser evil than waiting until spring. Comments? Jerry, got any electronic hive data to help us on this one? Is there any data that indicates how detrimental breaking a cluster can be? > it is important for beekeepers to take into account bee biology and > behavior as well as temperature when using any medication, miticide, or even > management strategy. Agreed. I quoted this because it's a point worth repeating. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:34:37 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Disposing of Varroa strips, Apistan treatment timing Comments: To: JamesCBach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James C Bach:- > I would need the whole text of the UK label to say for sure but I'm thinking > that if it says: "The strips should be left in the colonies for a maximum of > six weeks and then removed," it does not mean they can be used in hives (or > supers) without bees. The intent of the label is to treat bees with mites > not combs nor moths. > > I interpret Bayer's statement (if made in the form of your statement "for > the diagnosis of severe infestations the product may be used at any time) to > mean that the strips may be used in the brood nest for several days with the > use of a Varroa trap or sticky board for mite detection purposes. UK Apistan labels make the following statements:- "Treatment duration is 6-8 weeks after which time the strips are removed and disposed of. The strips should not be removed from the hive for at least 6 weeks. Do not leave the strips in the hive for more than 8 weeks. The treatment period should be kept as short as possible in order to reduce the likelihood of trace residues in the broodwax and to avoid the development of mite resistance." "Use strips for one treatment only; do not reuse strips. Dispose of used strips safely by wrapping in paper and placing in domestic refuse. Do not contaminate ponds or streams with product" "Apistan efficiency is maximised if used in late summer and after the main honey harvest (when the amount of brood is diminishing). However, in the case of severe infestations Apistan can be used at any time of year" Personally, I would be wary of any supposed effect of used strips on wax moths. They would have to come into contact with the strips, and I doubt if they have the same degree of contact between individuals that bees have for the transfer of the active ingredient. It never ceases to amaze me the extent that beekeepers will go to save a few pennies, when there are fairly cheap and proven remedies available!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:30:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: SWARMING INSTINCT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The queen and her performance may be one of the many stimuli for swarming but the workers are definitely in control. I once watched a swarm issue from a mini nuc. Bees were in the air swirling round in the traditional manner. The queen was on the board the nuc was sitting on and she did NOT want to go although she was being thoroughly jostled by her daughters. I managed to herd her back into the hive with my fingers and close the QE entrance. A few hours later when all was quiet I removed the queen for introduction to another hive and left the solitary Q cell which later produced a very satisfactory queen. In this case the stimulus was clearly over crowding. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:23:12 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Varroa-pilot Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beefriends I'd like to hear about your experience on Varroa spreading outside a hive. Many years ago I have read that Varroa mite being on a field bee travels together and on a blossom may change its host. This way mites infest another colonies. Having in my mind that drones are more attractive for mite breeding and drones enter every bee hive I caught an idea they should be more attractive for mite spreading out their hive. In the issue I should use a mesh on my hive entry to filter outside drones visiting my already Varroa mite cured colonies. To check my suspicion last week I trapped a few drones visiting my hives. At the time already some 3 weeks my bees threw the drones out of their hives and no one drone cell was among the brood. To my great astonishment I could not find any Varroa mite riding a coming in drone. Maybe, its on account of the season - 2 weeks as autumn weather approached here. Your comments are very appreciated. Sincerely Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt ICQ# : 4201422 http://neris.mii.lt/ http://www.lei.lt http://gytis.lei.lt/ 55 N, 24 E ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:44:19 +0100 Reply-To: alan.riach@which.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Emergency Queen Cells and Ageing Grubs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Certainly in an emergency I've seen the bees building queen cells around anything from new laid eggs to 4 day old grubs. In an emergency (which over the millenia could be of any source from volcanoes to beekeepers) the soundest strategy for the bees would be to get themselves a queen as quickly as possible - if she were to turn out not very good they could always supercede her at their leisure. The fastest way to a functioning queen must be to use the oldest grub which will yield a working queen - maybe this is the reason for starting with ageing grubs. Anyone got any idea of the oldest grub that will produce a functioning queen? Alan Riach - Edinburgh ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:40:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Cindy Shortell Subject: HONEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recenty started treating my 2 hives with Menthol. I left one honey super on thinking that since I did not get much honey my first year that I should leave it for the bees. I attended a bee association meeting and was told that bees winter better with sugar water, less dysentery. So, is my honey super contaminated? I know I can't sell it with medication in the supers, but is it safe for my own consumption? Should I just leave the honey on, mark the super and know that I can not ever use this super for selling honey, your suggestions please. The menthol has been on for 5 days. If I can use it, is there a way to extract it without an extractor, especially since I use plastic frames? Cindy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:40:49 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: mig lau Subject: Besoin d'Information - Information needed Comments: To: abeilles@fundp.ac.be, apither@beenet.pp.se, bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Bonjour à tous, j'ai pour projet de faire usage d'une remorque pour transhumer mes ruches. J'aimerais que celle-ci soit fermée et mise sous clé. N'en ayant jamais utilisé, je me permet de demander à tout ceux qui en ont une si il peuvent me donner les trucs et astuces utilisés et surtout ce qu'il faut et ne faut pas faire du point de vue pratique, voire ce qu'ils regrettent de ne pas avoir fait sur la leur. Je vous en remercie d'avance. Dès que j'aurais centralisé cette information, je l'enverrais sûrement à un site qui reprends beaucoup de plans de matériel apicole. Merci pour tout et passez une magnifique journée. Hi, I want to use a tows (remorque in French) to move my beehives. But the problem is I never use one and then I don't know what's important to have and to do (or not to do) with this tows. So may I ask you what must I think to do and not to do and also what forget when you build yours. Do you have also some trips about it ? So I thank you very much and when I will receive all the information I will send it to a site that already have many plans of beekeeping materials. So, thanks for all and have a nice day. Miguel :-)) Belgique ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:02:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: HONEY In-Reply-To: <199908311101.HAA04515@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I recenty started treating my 2 hives with Menthol...I know I can't sell it with medication in the supers, but is it safe for my own consumption? Menthol is a food item. It is used for flavouring and and also in things like cough drops. There is a great deal of info on menthol and also methods of removing honey from combs without an extractor in the BEE-L logs at http://listserv.albany.edu/archives/bee-l.html allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:18:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Besoin d'Information - Information needed In-Reply-To: <199908311118.HAA04798@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I want to use a tows (remorque in French) to move my beehives. But the > problem is I never use one and then I don't know what's important to have > and to do (or not to do) with this tows. So may I ask you what must I think > to do and not to do and also what forget when you build yours. Bonjour Miguel, We use trailers all the time for moving bees. Ours have roller tarps incorporated to hold the hives in place and to discourage the bees from flying. I have not posted pictures of them to the web, but you can see some of our other trailers at me website http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ You can find some important ideas by searching the BEE-L archives at http://listserv.albany.edu/archives/bee-l.html allen ----- BEE-L archives & more: http://listserv.albany.edu/archives/bee-l.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:03:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Name that Honey - Results Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for all the responses to my query about a very dark honey I obtained in Piedmont NC this year. Among the suggestions were honeydew, fruit juices, and sparkleberry. What seems the most likely conclusion, however, is that I have nearly pure tulip poplar honey. I had always thought tulip poplar to be an amber honey, but several folk wrote knowledgeably of near black honey from the tulip poplar -- though with a distinct redness when held up to the light. This describes my honey quite well. Another spoke of having a similar "motor oil honey" pollen tested and finding predominantly tulip poplar pollen. It was quite dry in our area early this spring -- at about the time that clover usually peaks -- and the clover never really seemed to recover. The poplars, on the other hand, bloomed like crazy. I'm guessing that in my normal harvest the poplar honey is diluted with clover, sumac, and others, but that this di not occur this year. Ain't it one of the great joys of beekeeping to speculate endlessly about these things that are beyond the ken and concern of the vast bulk of humanity?!! Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:10:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Organization: Apimo Biavl Subject: varoa pilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oprindelig meddelelse ----- Fra: Rimantas Zujus Til: Sendt: 31. august 1999 09:23 Emne: Varroa-pilot > Dear Beefriends > > I'd like to hear about your experience on Varroa spreading outside a hive. > Many years ago I have read that Varroa mite being on a field bee travels > together and on a blossom may change its host. This way mites infest another > colonies. Having in my mind that drones are more attractive for mite > breeding and drones enter every bee hive I caught an idea they should be > more attractive for mite spreading out their hive. It is more than so! Drones are observed travelling so far as 30 km and on their way have been welcomed in other apiaries on their way. So varroa spread more quick than most people think. This was observed by marking a hundred drones and then asking the beekeepers in the area to watch for those and then return their observations. It is not a scientific observation but more an practical experiment done in the first of the seventies when Varroa first was reported in Denmark best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:54:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Varroa-pilot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems to me that a barrier keeping foreign drones from entering your hives would keep the drones your hives produce in. If you are monitoring your hives close enough each season every year to know when they have thrown out all their own drones, then it might work. But that seems impractical as a long-term remedy to the varroa problem. John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Emergency Queen Cells and Ageing Grubs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >In an emergency (which over the millenia could be of any source from >volcanoes to beekeepers) the soundest strategy for the bees would be to >get themselves a queen as quickly as possible - if she were to turn out >not very good they could always supercede her at their leisure. >The fastest way to a functioning queen must be to use the oldest grub >which will yield a working queen - maybe this is the reason for starting >with ageing grubs. Anyone got any idea of the oldest grub that will >produce a functioning queen? > I attended a workshop at EAS about queen cell biology. While there still seems to be some debate about the quality of a queen based on the age of the larvae selected, there seems to be an even bigger consideration regarding the quality of the resulting queen. The amount of royal jelly that is placed into the cell before it is capped may be a very good indicator of how good a queen that hatched. Queen cells that were produced for swarming or supercedure had so much royal jelly in them that after the queen emerged, a good deal of dry residue was still in the bottom of the cell. Cells from emergency queens often have all of the jelly consumed by the larvae. I wonder if this could put the issue of queen quality in a different light. The emergency queens have run out of food in the capped cell. The other queens had all they needed, and then some. Could this be a result of the bees having a longer period to fill the cell before capping? Could a few hours time give the bees enough time to add enough jelly to end up with a good queen? If so the difference between a workable emergency queen and a poor one could be the result of small differences in the way the bees have fed the larvae. I also wonder if bees tend to chose brood of full sisters for the new queen? If so this could account for the choice of older larvae when eggs are available. The process of natural selection is going to give a lot of favor to a "selfish" gene if it raises the chances of that trait being passed along. Having your full sister become the next egg layer would pass on the gene, and promote its selection.