From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:13:00 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08330 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02319 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131212.HAA02319@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:57 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9911B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 84647 Lines: 1851 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 20:40:18 -0500 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Polaroid film In-Reply-To: <199911072222.RAA14206@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 7 Nov 99, at 16:02, Richard Bonney wrote: > What is Polaroid J film? > > Is it still available today under that designation? > > The Edmond Scientific consumer catalog lists polaroid film. It does not > specify kind or type, just generic polaroid. I suppose a phone call to > them might bring all the answers but I thought one of you might know. Polaroid Film is a product for taking photos on, with instant built in processing to be used in Polaroid cameras. What you're looking for is 'polarising' film. This is used in the camera industry in front of lighting sources or in front of camera lenses. The best description of it's purpose could be that it straightens out light rays. Bearing in mind the purpose, a better idea might be to find a photograher with a good polarising camera filter, held in front of a back lit jar and on turning it (the filter), the polarising effects will be apparent. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:- Beekeeping Jacket **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 08:48:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Graham Law Subject: Running a Live Bee Show Safely Hi, I have just completed a web page on how to run a live flying bee show in public which may interest someone out there. The page can be found off our home page at... http://www.gandboss.demon.co.uk/ Abstract. { At country shows for over 150 years a great attraction has been a live demonstration of a beekeeper manipulating a colony of bees. Bee driving and bee beards where also greatly appreciated but not part of this article. However with the world becoming increasing litigious it has been a concern that with bees flying free in public, the risk of an odd sting is always present. I have been working on the idea of containing the bees within a completely netted gazebo enclosure and allowing the public to view real manipulations at very close quarters. Recently we have even allowed children, suitably protected and supervised, to take a colony apart in front of their parents and friends with great success. } ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:07:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: solar power MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >I'm just curious, couldn't some kind of artificial heat be used for the >bees. Maybe some kind of heat strips when it's really cold or something. >Little solar panels connected to some kind of heater?? This will be my >first winter with my bees and I'm a little anxious and would like to help >them get through the winter. Of course here in Ark we shouldn't have near >the problem as northerners do. When a beekeeper wraps hives with black roofing paper they are using solar energy to help heat the hive. As was mentioned the use of a panel would be very expensive for the amount of heat generated. It has already been mentioned that it is possible, by heating the hive, to fool the bees into thinking it is safe to leave the hive. The resulting loss of bees would be very bad. If I were looking for a solar power project for my bees I think I would use it to provide water near the hives (I am speaking of next summer). A pump to keep clean water available to the bees would reduce the energy expended by the bees to gather water as well as keeping the bees out of the neighbors' livestock water. A single 50 watt panel should be able to handle something like this. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:52:29 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Request for image MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Workers and queens are 'two a penny' and I have plenty of my own photographs, but for a web page I need a coloured image of a drone, can anyone assist. Even all three castes together would do the trick. Please forward direct to bees@kenlia.enta.net Thanks in anticipation. Ken Hoare Don't tell anyone, its stopped raining in Shropshire. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:49:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: USDA-ARS Africanized Bees and Bee Mites Conference in Tucson, Arizona Comments: To: BeeList MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For your info - http://198.22.133.109/conference/CONF2000.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:19:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: cream honey help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have burned out one drill making cream honey. I used a hand drill and a mixing paddle I bought from Betterbee! Anyone got a better solution to stirring honey to make cream that's better than using a drill? Incidential I was using a 3/8" drill. I would buy a 1/2" drill if it would solve the problem. Any ideas would be appreciated. I mix 5 gallons at a time. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:38:14 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: cream honey help In-Reply-To: <199911090425.XAA22038@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have burned out one drill making cream honey. New Zealand beekeepers pioneered the development of creamed honey back in the early part of the century (There - I'm sure that will bring out some controversy; list has been too polite lately!)... The 'beaten' honey you are describing is nice, but no where *near* as nice as well-handled 'real creamed' honey. 'Creamed honey' as I know it is a naturally granulated product, but with the size of the grain controlled by introducing a seed starter, then controlling the temperature as the granulation gets underway. There's an article about it at http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/article6.htm that gives a few more details. Bon appetit! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Bibliography: Solar Wax Melters? Email to: solarwax@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 11:50:16 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Observations of a 2nd year beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rod Rupert wrote: > Beltsville screen inserts: > > I built several of these and installed over the bottom boards when I > treated for mites in August. This was the first time I used sticky boards > and these inserts are great for that. I was stunned at the hundreds of > mites on the boards after the strips had been in for only a few hours. I > also noted that small black ants were carrying off the dead mites. I left > the insert on one hive after completing the apistan treatments to observe > mite fall with no treatment in the hive. (The insert is still on and I will > leave it on all winter but I have blocked off the opening in the back) > There would be a few mites on the board from time to time, but it was > difficult to evaluate because of the actions of the ants. Finally someone has said something positive about ants! Wouldn't it be wonderful if a variety of ants would be discovered who would do nothing except hunt through the hives looking for mites to eat? What a fantasy! > What am I doing wrong here? It would be > easier to store them (supers) wet but I understand that: a) wet supers > should not be > stored with PDB because the remaining honey would pick up the odor/taste of > PDB, and b) storing supers wet will promote granulation of next year's > honey crop. Are both of these true? PDB, in my opinion, should not be used with supers, only brood chambers. I have always had my supers cleaned up by bees, but as you noticed, when set upon colonies often the honey is not removed but only concentrated in some of the combs. I always set up stacks outside, protected below from mice by an excluder, and protected from rain above by an old junk cover. The supers are slightly offset so bees can enter at the ends. This attracts clouds of bees, some yellow jackets, and the odd hornet, but it gets the job done in about two or three days. Two concerns: robbing at the hives and disease spread. Robbing does not occur if colonies are healthy and strong and extra openings are closed up. Disease is not spread if the colonies are healthy to begin with. Do not try this procedure if you have an AFB hive in your yard! Also, set the stack of supers some distance from your hives - perhaps 50 to 75 feet. > > > I install menthol packs in August when the ambient temperature here in > Southwest Missouri is frequently in the upper 90's. My experience the last > two years is that the bees completely isolate the menthol pack from the > hive with propolis before the menthol has a chance to sublimate. I am not > sure how much of a treatment the bees are getting because there is always > menthol remaining when I remove the packs. Any suggestions? This always happens. Menthol is a total mess in the hive. I haven't used it for years since the grease patty was developed. It works much better for tracheal mites, and is also much cheaper. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:46:38 -0500 Reply-To: larryk@bellatlantic.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Kellogg Subject: Nice observation hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could somebody tell me the name of the company that makes beautiful observation hives. I can't seem to remember the name. Do they have a web site? I'm talking about the hives which are made of oak, etc. I saw them at EAS a couple of years ago. Please email me at larryk@bellatlantic.net Regards, Larry Kellogg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:40:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeemanNick@AOL.COM Subject: Re: cream honey help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We also make cream honey with a drill and it does great. We do it 2 gallons at a time and use a qt. paint mixer! that is what I have to say! Nick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 08:40:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Observations of a 2nd year beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a third problem with leaving frames out for cleaning. The bees get aggressive and will look elsewhere for food. Mine visited my neighbors and kept one indoors because they buzzed her when she left the house. Under all other conditions they were and are docile bees, but I stopped leaving frames out after that, and no more problems. Just check under the wet frames at the end of the day. You will have many dead bees. It is the end of the season and there are no or few nectar sources out there so there is competition. And they go out looking for more nectar. It was an easy way to clean the supers but not worth it when it came to AFB control, robbing, upping the aggression of the bees and aggravating my neighbors. One other thing, if your neighbor get stung when you are doing this, you could be held liable because you created the nuisance. So now I store wet and they are ready to put on in the spring. No mold or any problems. Store in an unheated barn. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:59:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Nice observation hives Comments: To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Comments: cc: larryk@bellatlantic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-11-09 08:17:39 EST, you write: << Could somebody tell me the name of the company that makes beautiful observation hives. I can't seem to remember the name. Do they have a web site? I'm talking about the hives which are made of oak, etc. I saw them at EAS a couple of years ago. Please email me at larryk@bellatlantic.net >> Try http://www.draperbee.com/index.htm Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:01:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lackey, Raymond" Subject: Running a Live Bee Show Safely MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We at the Long Island Beekeeper's Club had been running a Bee Cage at fairs for many years. It was similar to the gazebo mentioned in function. I don't have a picture of the cage itself but if you visit my web site page at http://www.tianca.com/tianca26.html , you'll see my daughter and I in the cage. To keep the population down for the demonstration, we would move the hive within the apiary a couple days ahead of time to get rid of most of the field bees, thus reducing the number flying out against the screen. I also have a copy of my general presentation text on the web page. Raymond J. Lackey Sweet Pines Apiary Honeybee Consultant - North American Fruit Explorers Master Beekeeper - Eastern Apiculture Society/OSU '95 Past President - Long Island Beekeepers Association Phone:(516)567-1936 FAX:(516)262-8053 mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia, NY 11716-2176 web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html email home: lackey_rj@dtnhome.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:37:04 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re Rupert's questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In addition to Jorn's comments which I endorse, another reason for not feeding bees in the open is consideration of your neighbours. If the honey is exposed close to the apiary the scout bees will advertise this by using their round dance which is not specific for distance or direction. Until the bees home in on the honey they may well annoy your neighbours by looking for sweet things in their houses and gardens. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:42:10 -0500 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Observations of a 2nd year beekeeper In-Reply-To: <199911091420.JAA02576@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Nov 99, at 8:40, Bill Truesdell wrote: > this, you could be held liable because you created the nuisance. > So now I store wet and they are ready to put on in the spring. No > mold or any problems. Store in an unheated barn. I have one major problem with wet storage. The residual honey will granulate in the comb and if you're not very lucky the new crop next year will begin granulating almost straight away. It's the perfect seed to start granulation going. See my post on creaming honey. No problem if you extract frequently as we do, but left till the end of the season as we did in '98, due to pressure, and we had lots of solid stuff to deal with. This is, I believe, the reason so many newbies have blow outs I know about canola etc and the normal reasons for granulation in the comb, these did not apply that year. We always, at least now, put back supers for drying out. Provided one waits till the flows are over, puts on an empty super to provide distance above the inner cover, and then has a little patience to wait for a couple of warm days, the bees will dry them right out. At one time we used to extract any green honey and feed it back. Now we put it on a hive that's had no supers on, they'll clean it out real quick. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:- Beekeeping Jacket **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:42:10 -0500 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: cream honey help In-Reply-To: <199911090425.XAA22038@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 8 Nov 99, at 23:19, Gothoney@AOL.COM wrote: > I have burned out one drill making cream honey. I used a hand drill and a > mixing paddle I bought from Betterbee! Anyone got a better solution to We have been making creamed honey for many years and without a great deal of fuss, this year about 200 lbs. Sells very well, preferred by many. Firstly, let's establish what traditional creamed honey is all about. It should be light coloured, soft and buttery in texture without the 'sand' feel in your mouth. It should remain soft indefinitely, and definitely never granulate hard. Whipping, stirring or beating granulated honey is not creaming it. We start just after extraction in 5gln or 50 lbs pails. It should not be heated, but finely filtered, as I believe granulation starts on solid particles, then add the seed. We use a small amount of last years creamed, approx 1lbs added to the pail and stirred twice per day using a honey creamer. It takes approx 2-3 weeks on our basement floor and will slowly turn into good creamed honey but not harden. Some hints and tips. The finer the seed the finer the final creamed honey. Cool temp throughout, even when complete it will liquefy very quickly and then it separates and looks ugly. Superb to eat on toast or bagels. Add cinnamon for a difference. Ideal for making honey butter. We sell the honey creamer, for further information please e-mail us direct. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:- Beekeeping Jacket **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 22:32:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: 'Urban Legends' and other half-truths In-Reply-To: <199911091424.JAA02632@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So now I store wet and they are ready to put on in the spring. No > mold or any problems. There are a lot of beekeeping myths and half truths that get repeated over and over. One is the 'two feet or two miles' oversimplification. (Like other myths it has a *bit* of truth, but is logically false). There are many many beekeeping lies and half-truths, and I wonder how many more we can unmask. It is a mystery to me why some of these things just won't die even with a wooden stake driven through the heart. I think they must have a grain of truth or some appeal to something in human nature. Beats me. One such popular idea relates to drying out combs for storage. I don't know where the idea came from, but it arises from its own ashes over and over and over. Maybe it is one of those 'How the bear lost his tail' tales. I can imagine a beekeeper who could not afford bee-proof storage convincing his neighbours that having the bees clean off the combs is de rigour. Maybe in some areas temperature and humidity is so constantly high that any honey left on the comb will draw water and spoil? Dunno. That is definitely not the case where I live. Some claim that the remaining honey granulates in the comb and then the crystals from the previous year cause granulation in any honey stored in the cells the current year. We have not been able to prove this to be at all true -- even with very careful observation. Au contraire. Careful study here actually has proven to us that this is *not* the case in our circumstances. If one thinks the thing through, according to the theory, some of the crystals must survive on the comb until the cells are refilled. I have reasons to doubt this: * For one thing, the bees typically clean out and polish cells before filling them with brood or honey; probably better than they do when robbing. (I think there can be exceptions to this cleaning and polishing, such as during a very heavy flow when the boxes are placed on with no lead time for cleaning. And I do know that AFB scale will be buried under honey on occasion. Bees have even been known to cover eggs with nectar when they run out of cells). * The hive temperature in areas near brood and other occupied areas are near or above the survival temperature for crystals in honey, let alone nectar. The bees bring in nectar at quite low sugar concentrations, and I should think that the crystals would dissolve before any cell was completely filled. * Observations here have shown us repeatedly that if two or three full frames of uncapped granulated honey are placed in the thirds of reasonably strong colonies, separated by frames with empty cells, the granulation will quickly disappear. By the time the box is filled, there is no sign of granulation. We assume that the granulation is liquefied, although occasionally, in the instance of really dry granulation, some crystals will be seen on the doorstep. * We do know that the bees go gladly into supers with honey in them and once there get into the habit of returning. Getting bees to go into the supers is one of the secrets of good beekeeping, so maybe here's a hint. --- This reminds me of a question: I would be curious to know what the actual minimum temperature is at which bees will store nectar in empty comb in supers. I don't mean the brood temperature or the weather outside, but the temperature in the super where the storage is to occur. I suspect that this temperature is *higher* (and possibly significantly higher) than the temperature at which bees will forage. We have touched on this in the past when discussing hive ventilation. My caution to others has always been that too much ventilation (or empty space in the hive) will discourage the bees from using comb in areas distant from brood if the ambient temperatures are low. Does anyone have any numbers on this? This effect may explain why sometime some beekeepers feel that they get more honey without excluders: the brood is spread through more of the hive and thus the bees will occupy more comb in empty regions as the queen takes here business there. This last matter is a complex matter and I am a bit afraid to touch it. Lloyd asked me to comment on how to use excluders effectively, and I have been thinking about it. I know how to do it, but can I explain it? The topic requires a lot of 'if this then this/if not this then that' kind of logic and I don't know if I am up to writing about it. I have a sense that I have written on the matter before and will do an exhaustive search before I go to that much work. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:40:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Re Rupert's questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/99 3:14:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, CSlade777@AOL.COM writes: << In addition to Jorn's comments which I endorse, another reason for not feeding bees in the open is consideration of your neighbours. If the honey is exposed close to the apiary the scout bees will advertise this by using their round dance which is not specific for distance or direction. Until the bees home in on the honey they may well annoy your neighbours by looking for sweet things in their houses and gardens. >> I've also seen robbing bees get REAL snotty. A friend had bees in his apiary robbing, and the owner's two kids on four-wheelers came by (something they often did), and they were badly stung up. He lost the location. I don't think it is ever a good idea to get bees robbing, fighting with one another, etc. If I want wet supers cleaned I take them to an isolated bee yard with only one hive in it. But even that has risks. I don't have room in my honey house for wet supers. As soon as they are finished, they go outside. But they go under a net, so robbing doesn't get started. If the bees start, around the honey house, they WILL find a way into the building. Then they become a royal nuisance, with dead bees in honey tanks and jars, droppings on everything, etc. And visitors can get stung. Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:48:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Re: cream honey help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For making 5 gallon batches of creamed honey I use a wooden spoon and hand stir. A nice, slow motion mixes the seed well and keeps air out of the mix. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 21:13:03 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Geoff Subject: Re: cream honey help Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" It sounds as though you haven't got the honey soft enough. I used an electric drill with a piece of stainless steel formed into a helix. I creamed many gallons of honey with an old drill and never had a problem. The honey in question was high in glucose and therefore set hard very quickly. I put the tubs (30 lbs) in an old refrigerator with a low wattage light bulb for 10-12 hours until between a quarter and a half of the honey was liquid, depending on how soft you want the finished creamed honey. Then creamed it until all lumps gone then bottled while still warm and flowing. The honey remained soft and spreadable for a very long time. It is my favourite way to eat honey. At 11:19 PM 11/8/99 EST, you wrote: >I have burned out one drill making cream honey. I used a hand drill and a >mixing paddle I bought from Betterbee! Anyone got a better solution to >stirring honey to make cream that's better than using a drill? Incidential I >was using a 3/8" drill. I would buy a 1/2" drill if it would solve the >problem. Any ideas would be appreciated. I mix 5 gallons at a time. > Geoff Kipps-Bolton ffff,0000,0000Numquam desperare! Sed scire cum desistere verberare equum mortuum! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:58:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: 'Urban Legends' and other half-truths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate Allens comments. My experience with wet storage has been favorable and is time saving. I put the supers back on for cleaning but a couple of years back, hurt my back so did not and saw no difference the next year. I have never had faster granulation of my summer honey which started with fall honey residue. My fall honey, which comes off of wet summer honey supers, granulates by December. But that is the honey- goldenrod and aster. I still have non granulated summer honey into the spring. I do not heat it and store it in less than optimum conditions in my basement. If the supers I put on in the spring have the residue of the quick granulating honey, my summer honey should be solid by October at the latest. But I have had some not granulate for years with no heating. I store the supers in an unheated barn. I stack them so no mice can get in and put an inner cover with an outer cover on top of each stack. I do get some bee visits to the barn since it is open, but no robbing activity since there are few bees and they are more searching for the honey but cannot get at it. I have done no research, but my guess is they clean out the supers I put on in spring, so I get the best of all possible worlds. The bees move into the supers early and my labor and back problems are kept to a minimum. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:10:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: J&S Maus Subject: Re: 'Urban Legends' and other half-truths Allen's post is on the money, I have never heard of any big operation having time to "dry supers" they extract and store them. They go on in spring/summer and it is just as Allen said. I have never noted any granulation year to year in the 4 years I've worked for a commercial beekeeper (2500 hives) and also in my own operation. The myths mentioned and unmentioned make beekeeping seem more complicated than it really is. Jim Maus West Bend WI ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:04:15 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 'Urban Legends' and other half-truths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have always let the bees clean my extracted combs prior to storage. Were I to store them wet would the amount of honey left be hygroscopic enough to get wet and ferment? It IS pretty humid here in the Northeast USA right up till the cold of winter. If you look under a pile of wet supers the bees have cleaned you will find hundreds of bee legs- evidence of fighting in my opinion. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:19:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: cream honey help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a step by step instruction to make the perfect fine crystallized honey on http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/research/krist-e.htm -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:38:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Comments: To: Bee-List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some beekeepers stack supers on top of hives to merely keep the wax moth under control. Surely thats how the dry super superstition started. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:36:15 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Suburban Beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I am presently putting together some documentation for a lecture on Suburban Beekeeping which I am to give early next year. This will be my first lecture in beekeeping. I remember coming across a statement that the aggressiveness of a hive varies inter alia with the number of guard bees posted at any one time. Thus if the size of the entrance is reduced, fewer guard bees are deployed and therefore there are fewer stingers ready to pounce. Can anybody confirm this assertion or otherwise?. I am also interested in trying to find out how many guard bees are deployed on average say per centimetre/inch of entrance space, as I like to put numbers on things if at all possible. Also if anybody has lecture notes on this subject which he/she would be willing to share with me, this would be invaluable assistance for which I would be most grateful. In return I will send my efforts when they are completed. Thanks as always for any help Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:06:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Barta Subject: Queen selection Comments: cc: spiva001@tc.umn.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dr. Marla Spivak of the University of Minnesota gave a talk on Varroa Resistant Bees to the Wisconsin Honey Producers Association last week. Her talk was an interesting overview of possible sources of and mechanisms for resistance to the Varroa mite. During the presentation, Dr. Spivak clarified some remarks she thought may have been misunderstood at Apimondia, remarks which were discussed by this group. Dr. Spivak's Apimondia suggestion that some yards be left untreated or treated late was meant solely for queen breeders, she said. Chemical treatments would thus not mask the breeder's ability to select for genetic resistance to bee pests. She was not suggesting that all beekeepers stop treating colonies, though some people apparently heard that, nor was she suggesting that breeders allow colonies to collapse completely. Her suggestion, that queen breeders allow a window of disease pressure to aid in selection of resistant bees, was seconded by Reg Wilbanks of Wilbanks Apiaries in Claxton, Georgia, who also addressed the convention. Mr. Wilbanks, who produces some 60,000 queens a year, said that one of his criteria for selection of breeder queens was freedom from disease. Both Dr. Spivak and Mr. Wilbanks gave interesting talks, making for a good WHPA meeting. Adrian Barta ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:18:36 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Re: Suburban Beekeeping In-Reply-To: <199911111341.IAA09000@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 > >I remember coming across a statement that the aggressiveness of a hive >varies inter alia with the number of guard bees posted at any one time. Thus >if the size of the entrance is reduced, fewer guard bees are deployed and >therefore there are fewer stingers ready to pounce. > >Can anybody confirm this assertion or otherwise?. I am also interested in >trying to find out how many guard bees are deployed on average say per >centimetre/inch of entrance space, as I like to put numbers on things if at >all possible. In my view measures to reduce the 'nastiness' of an aggressive colony in an urban or suburban environment is the wrong approach altogether. There is just no place for anything other than placid colonies in these environments. Aggressive colonies will damage your neighbours, damage your relationships with your neighbours, and give beekeeping in general a bad name. With the growth of Agro-Business, with monocultural rearing of wheat/barley over large areas and with spraying to kill everything else, the traditional view of beekeeping as a rural craft is rapidly becoming obsolete in many areas. ( In Donald Sim's recent book '60 years with Bees' he relates how a UK village that supported hundreds of colonies in the 1930s was hard pressed to support 2 colonies in the 1980s) Conversly, with increasing interest in gardening (in the UK) the urban and suburban environments are becoming better for bees and beekeeping. The ability to use these latter environments depends, in part, on beekeepers being very responsible, and not keeping aggressive stocks in them. I also am interested in numbers and measurement related to beekeeping. What measurements can be made that give added value to beekeepers? Regards, -- Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:46:36 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Suburban Beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Mike Rowbottom wrote as follows: >In my view measures to reduce the 'nastiness' of an aggressive colony in >an urban or suburban environment is the wrong approach altogether. Thanks to Mike for his reply. I believe that Mike may have misunderstood my question - perhaps my fault. At no stage did I seek to use information on defensive behaviour to reduce the 'nastiness' of an aggressive colony. I quite agree with his views that nasty bees have no place in a suburban environment, and since I have hives in my back garden I have more than an academic interest in this. Any hive that steps out of line is sentenced to immediate transportation to an out apiary. What I am seeking to do, is to use whatever means I can to reduce even further the possibility of stinging even by quiet bees. I believe that the intrinsic quietness of bees is only one factor - albeit a major factor - in the overall equation. Handling and siting also play a part. And if better and more scientific handling based on knowledge and measurement, can be factored into quiet bees, surely the end result must be even better.? Mike further wrote: >I also am interested in numbers and measurement related to beekeeping. >What measurements can be made that give added value to beekeepers? In my opinion beekeeping is absolutely full of measurements, e.g. The weight of stores in a hive for winter, the strength of the syrup fed to the bees, the number of varroa mites which the bees can tolerate, the ideal temperature in a beehive, the number of foragers in a hive at the start of a flow, the number of beehives which any given area can support, surely the number of such measurements is legion. And knowing and observing them must give added value to beekeepers, on the basis that not knowing or ignoring them causes diminished value. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:01:05 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Re: Suburban Beekeeping In-Reply-To: <199911111749.MAA15981@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 > > >Mike further wrote: >>I also am interested in numbers and measurement related to beekeeping. >>What measurements can be made that give added value to beekeepers? > >In my opinion beekeeping is absolutely full of measurements, e.g. Hi Now I think that I have not made myself clear. There are indeed a lot of measurements to be made, and Tom lists many of them. What I was driving at was a question on the measurements that we ought to be making, but do not know how to at present. For example, how can we measure the state of the colony in relation to swarming? ( Wood's Apidictor claimed to be able to do this, and perhaps that is why the interest in it goes on. ) Is it possible to measure routinely a queen's performance, so that advance warning of a failing queen can be obtained? Dreaming on, perhaps if we knew more quantitative measurements about pheromones and had a sensitive chemical probe to detect them we might revolutionise beekeeping totally? regards -- Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire HG1 2PY UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:18:19 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Apidictor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Mike Rowbottom mentioned the Apidictor recently. At present, two electronic engineers one in Ireland and one in the USA are working on a project to get an Apidictor up and running based on the original design by Mr Woods a BBC engineer in the 30s. I quote part of an e mail received from the American engineer recently. >I too look forward to having hardware, but with some trepidation. When we >can make working units our frustration will begin, inasmuch as we have no >idea how they should be calibrated. There was an original Apidictor about >30 miles south of here, but the owner died, and the unit has disappeared >into oblivion. Do you have access to an extant original unit? Do you >suppose Rex Boys has any idea how the Apidictors were calibrated? > >About the best I'll be able to do is to provide for trimpots (little >screwdriver adjustments), one to set the sound level at which the green >indicator goes off and the yellow comes on, and another for where the yellow >goes off and the red comes on. I will not, however know the settings for >these adjustments. > Is there anybody on the list who has any knowledge on the Apidictor or better still knows where I can get my hands on one. Any help will be greatly appreciated and I will arrange to update the list on progress when the model is working. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:56:12 +0000 Reply-To: alan.riach@which.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Bees, Neighbours & Two Way Aggression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is no doubt that aggressive bees lead to aggressive neighbours and both are to be avoided if possible. Many queen breeders are doing a sterling job in producing non aggressive bees, however the more I see of "isolated" colonies which have had very little outside genetic material introduced over the years the more convinced I am becoming that isolation naturally leads to quiet bees. The continual introduction of new queens, which I accept is necessary in commercial operations probably leads to "vigorous" behaviour, in defence as in other characteristics. The isolated village beekeeping of our forefathers was probably the ideal scenario for the gradual production of genetically stable, non aggressive colonies. Alan Riach Nr.Edinburgh-Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:41:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bees, Neighbours & Two Way Aggression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Riach wrote: > The isolated village beekeeping of our forefathers was probably the > ideal scenario for the gradual production of genetically stable, non > aggressive colonies. I have wondered about this since when I started beekeeping was told not to grow my own bees because I would get agressive bees with the next generations. It has not worked out that way. Instead, my bees are no different from year to year and I have been growing my own for six or more years. Any agression comes because of outside influences, such as skunks. The most agressive colony I ever had came from a purchased package. I requeened all my hives with New World Carniolians and they have been outstanding ever since. Wonder if agression caused by growing your own is another of Allen's beekeeping urban legends? Bill Truesdell Bath ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:39:24 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: joe@GOLBERDON.PRESTEL.CO.UK Subject: Re: Apidictor In-Reply-To: <199911121143.GAA07712@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Is there anybody on the list who has any knowledge on the Apidictor or > better still knows where I can get my hands on one. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated and I will arrange to update the list > on progress when the model is working. Hi, I have a circuit diagram and know (although I can't remember a name at present) that there is at least one Apidictor hereabouts. Actually I mailed quite a lot of info including circuit diagrams and articles to about 8 list members who requested such information about 3 years ago. IIRC none even acknowledged receipt. Regards Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:20:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Apidictor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Actually I mailed quite a lot of info including circuit diagrams and > articles to about 8 list members who requested such information > about 3 years ago. IIRC none even acknowledged receipt. My own experience has been that about 10% - 15% of recipients send acknowledgement. I do appreciate it when I know that my transmissions are received somewhere out there in e-land. Dick Bonney rebonney@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:20:00 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Rupert Subject: Mite drop In-Reply-To: <199911121313.IAA08715@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On one of the three hives I keep in my back yard I have a screen insert installed which I decided to leave on all winter, albeit with the back closed. This hive was requeened in June and treated with four apistan strips (two per hive body) from July 17 through August 29. We have been having unseasonably warm temps here in SW Missouri, so yesterday I decided to uncover the back and install a sticky board to check for mite drop. After five hours I counted nine mites, most still alive, and today, after 22 hours, counted 20 mites. The 20 included the original nine and almost all of the mites appear dead. I have seen no ants carring off dead mites so I believe this count is accurate. This is many more mites than I expected to find and wonder what, if anything, I should do. It seems to have a good population is is just finishing it's second gallon of 2:1 syrup with fumidil. As far as I know there are no reports of apistan resistant mites in this area. When I treated in July the initial mite drop was large, hundreds during the first four hours. I could treat again but the normal spring treatment for this area is February and therefore only three months away. I am also concerned about causing mite resistance if I treat again so soon. I believe coumophous was recently approved for use in Missouri, so I suppose I could try that. Any suggestions? Rod Rupert Springfield, Missouri mailto:rrupert@mail.orion.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:50:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Some isolated bees nice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gotta agree with Bill and Alan. I have a lovely colony that had their tree downed by lightning one evening in June. A big powerful colony, several gallons of bees, but we were able to scoop them into the hive by the quart with bare hands, and they remain just as nice today. Breeding is, of course, unknown. The queen is pumpkin colored, but her bees are every color from jet black to blond. My mentor has hived many feral colonies, and most have been gentle. One of these had combs 12 feet tall and had been established for 50 years, but were gentle. In fairness, we still may owe such gentleness to good breeders, as some folks who don't take care of perfectly nice bees let many swarms issue. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:45:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Tickner Edwardes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! We are currently reading a book written by, Tickner Edwardes. "Bee-Keeping for All" published in the 1920's. Anyone on the list have any books or pertinent information about this English Bee-master? Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:35:21 -0500 Reply-To: Peter John Keating Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter John Keating Subject: Re: Tickner Edwardes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >We are currently reading a book written by, Tickner Edwardes. >"Bee-Keeping for All" published in the 1920's. >Anyone on the list have any books or pertinent information about this >English Bee-master? Yes, l have a copy of "The Lore of the Honey-Bee" dated 1914 and also a copy of "Bee-Keeping Do's and Dont's" 1925. I think he was a prolific writer of the time, somewhat similar to Maurice Maeterlinck was, but later and of British origin? A good rference for these and other books is "British Bee Books, a bibliography 1500-1976" published by the I.B.R.A. Peter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 21:43:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul S LeRoy Subject: Russian queens MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Would any one who has information on availability of Russian Queens and approximate prices please post to list or direct to me. Thanks, Paul LeRoy at pleroy@wctel.net. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 21:39:36 -0700 Reply-To: flightdeck1@earthlinkREMOVETHIS.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Bees, Neighbours & Two Way Aggression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With fifty hives queened with Sue Cobey's New World Carniolans this year, I'll add a 'second' to the line from Bill below! All my 100+ hives were harvested and treated without the help of a smoker this year. If I brought the smoker, the fuel was left behind.... or the lighter....or the smoker, again. It seemed only the NWC bees tolerated the disturbance without aggression. Some of the mean bees literally emptied their hive onto my suit. It was also obvious that the better 'average' honey production came from the NWC queened hives. Yet, there always seems to be that one odd feral hive which keeps you amazed compared to surrounding hives - either by size or production. The remaining non-NWC hives are feral varieties removed from buildings. While most of the feral bees will let you remove them without much stinging, they certainly regain this instinct once hived around a bunch more beehives. Neighbors here at the house, are much nicer now that four of the five hives are moved away. It seems, so are the bees. One hive is enough for tomatoes and apples. Matthew Westall Earthling Bees, Inc. - Castle Rock, CO > I requeened all my hives with New World Carniolians and they have been > outstanding ever since. > Wonder if agression caused by growing your own is another of Allen's > beekeeping urban legends? > Bill Truesdell > Bath ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 00:42:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: nhmn Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you're looking for the National Honey Market News, http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/nhmn/index.html -Barry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:17:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: More on Urban Legends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was thinking about my post on aggression and how my inbred bees are not showing the aggression I was told they would demonstrate. Why don't they when it seems the experience of others proves otherwise? My guess is we are in a new era of beekeeping or at least an anomaly in the normal practice of beekeeping and all because of varroa. So some of the urban legends have no validity. The best scientific studies require controls over variables, which are kept at a minimum or at least identified. Temperature, pressure, volume, etc. are controlled. Impurities are excluded. Prior to varroa, beekeeping had many variables because of feral colonies and George Imire's Beehavers, who kept bees but did not manage them. Swarms were introduced into the apiary without regard to source. In essence, any apiary not isolated on an island, was confounded by variables effecting the bees. If I grew my own under those conditions, I would be flooded by a drone gene pool that could easily have undesirable traits like aggression. Now, with varroa's removal of the feral bee population and most of the keepers vrs. managers of bees, the drone pool is from managed hives. Since managed hives by definition would exclude aggressive bees, the gene pool is conducive to my continued success with my bees. When varroa comes under control and the feral colonies are reestablished, maybe the urban legend of aggressive bees will be a valid observation. It is also interesting, if we are living through an anaomoly in beekeeping, if all the studies which are being conducted will be valid to the practicing beekeeper when the feral colonies and all the variables they introduce are reestablished. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:07:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Russian queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I called Bernard Apiaries down in Louisiana, which is selling the Russian queens. I was told by the woman who answered the phone that one such queen was selling for $500. No guarantees there would be one available after Sept. 30. Perhaps commercial breeders or volume buyers can negotiate for a better price. John ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 11:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brian Gant Subject: Apidictor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is information on the Apidictor in the recent leaflet - Listen to the Bees -, by Rex Boys, published by Northern Bee Books. According to this it was intended that the Mark 5 version of the Apidictor would have a meter to replace the eye indicator. This would remove the calibration problem. Brian Gant ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 14:46:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tickner Edwardes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Rev. Tickner Edwardes was for many years vicar of Burpham in Sussex and was a renowned collector of country lore. I have Bee-keeping for all, The Lore of the Honey-bee and The Bee-master of Warrilow. He also wrote The Honey-star and Bees as Rent-payers. The Bee-master of Warrilow was recently re published by Ashgrove Press ISBN 0 906798 33 7. Its a good armchair read. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 21:17:56 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: Tickner Edwardes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonjour, Regarding your reading matter. I have two copies( why two I don't know) of THE LORE OF THE HONEY BEE by Tickner Edwards 19th Editions Printed by: METHUEN AND COMPANY First printed in 1908 Nineteenth edition in 1946 Best wishes Peter. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 19:41:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Apidictor calibration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have here the Apidictor diagram Tom sent along with a leaflet by Rex Boys, but thorough analysis of the Apidictor circuit gives but a rough idea what sound pressure impinging upon the microphone caused a transition from the green zone to the yellow zone, and from the yellow to the red. There are many unknowns in the equation, such as the sensitivity of the microphone used, and more variables inside the instrument. These days one might use a meter as intended in Mark 5 Apidictor, or even green, yellow, and red lights, but in any case, the indicator of choice must be calibrated. What we lack is knowledge of what accoustical levels in the frequency band of interest correspond to the various degrees of imminence of swarming. Without that knowledge it may be necessary to reestablish the calibration criteria empirically, as Eddie Woods originally must have done. Testing of an extant Apidictor could yield calibration data, which could help the effort to resurrect the instrument in modern form. Hope this clarifies what piece of the puzzle is missing. If anyone can provide such data, it would be most helpful. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 07:54:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: I sent an article to BEE-L and my post did not appear... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A reminder to all: BEE-L encourages all informed contributions from any list member. If you have posted a message to BEE-L and your post has not been distributed to the list, there are *many* reasons why it may have gone astray. Just because it does not appear on the list does not necessarily mean it has been rejected by all four moderators. They may not have even received it. Very few posts are refused, and the reasons for refusal are outlined clearly on our website. Please visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ and click on the 'my post did not appear on the list' link. If you are considering posting to BEE-L, (or even if you are not) it is a good idea to visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ before doing so, both to check on the guidelines for submissions and to research your subject a little. It is amazing the topics that have been covered in depth. A wide selection of opinions are available just for the effort of making a quick keyword search. You may answer your own question in a few mouse clicks, or get enough information to ask an even better one. The site is set up to make it easy to do everything that you might want to do relating to BEE-L , including adjust your subscription options. The site is fairly new. Please let me know if we have overlooked anything or if you don't understand anything. Please send your bouquets and brickbats to allend@internode.net (not the list). Thanks allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:15:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lisa Siciliano Subject: honey experiments-question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a high school student that is currently doing research on honey and propolis. I would like to know from beekeepers what kind of experiments or concerns do you think would be beneficial to address in a number of projects? What do beekeepers wonder about regarding the specific properties of honey? I am also looking for very dark honeys or light honeys that could be donated for this project. I am currently working on different types of honey that inhibit the growth of E.coli. Lisa Siciliano ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 11:50:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Treatment for mites in Missouri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rod wonders if he should treat again for mites, as he had a 20 mite fall (with no Apistan) in 48 hours. This also sounds to me as if it is a large drop. Unfortunately, no one knows the significance of any counted drop. Moreover, the importance of a 20 mite drop in upstate NY (where I am) might not be at all important in Missouri! Have you tried your extension service for guidance? Perhaps they could put you in touch with someone at Missouri's ag school. You are now at the mid-point between treatments. However many mites are in your hives, they will roughly double in number every 30 days. Obviously, things could get critical very fast. Can you count on reasonably good temperatures for the next 28-40 days? If you can, I would treat now. Don't worry about over-using Apistan, as it is now a certainty that the formic acid gel pack will be available in the spring and that should be rotated into your schedule. Your bee supply dealer will have it. Hope this helps. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 12:02:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Aggression & Urban Legends Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" RE: "Now, with varroa's removal of the feral bee population and most of the keepers vrs. managers of bees, the drone pool is from managed hives." REPLY: Greetings, I am new to this list but not new to beekeeping. I have worked with commercial beekeepers since 1974. My comments are based on that experience. Now, if you raise your own queens or permit supercedure, naturally you are raising bees that are common stock. This means that they will have a sum of the characteristics of the bees in your region. If one wishes to have a pure stock, one needs some kind of controlled system. If there is such a thing as a gentle strain, it would have to be maintained by a system. By the same token, an aggressive strain would be maintained by a system, although the system could be natural selection, due to the aggressive trait prevailing. In any given area, even prior to the arrival of varroa, feral populations have always been very small and I seriously doubt if they have ever been the primary source of genes in the USA. There were 4 million colonies in hives a hundred years ago and in 1946 there were almost 6 million. The primary source of genes is bees in hives. These are managed hives, but what does that mean? Many beekeepers purchase queens for re-queening, but very few are faithful to one source, so their honeybee populations are very diverse. Many beekeepers raise their own queens from common stock. I believe that the average hive represents this common stock and whatever its traits are, those are the "normal" traits of hive bees. So, what this means is that the unattended hive will not be more or less aggressive than the average. To truly have "gentle" stock, one must re-queen every time supercedure takes place. Could you raise Collies if you let the mothers mate with unknown fathers? Taking the dog metaphor a step further, what is the common dog? It is neither especially aggressive nor gentle nor especially bright. However, what stands out in the discussion was the comment "All my 100+ hives were harvested and treated without the help of a smoker ... Some of the mean bees literally emptied their hive onto my suit." I have heard this comment before and I must point out that keeping bees requires the use of a smoker. I would no more open a hive without a smoker than I would expect my kids to have their teeth drilled and filled without anesthetic. Obviously, some people could tolerate that level of pain, but most would not. A hive that goes into a stinging frenzy when opened up without smoke is a *normal* hive; one that does not is exceptional. (I'm not talking about nucs here nor when the temperature is over 100 F). You may want bees that are that tolerant; most would prefer a hive that would defend itself under "normal" circumstances. The average hive, commercial or hobbyist, is of common stock. They aren't mean and they aren't gentle. They don't break records but they hold up well. Just like that puppy you get from the pound. If you want mean, you buy a Pit Bull. If you want gentle, you buy a Labrador Retriever. And you get their papers! I think the future of beekeeping in the world will require much more control over the genetic stock of hives via AI (artificial insemination). But breeding for hygienic behavior and pest resistance, not docility. We may have to go to genetically engineered stock to stamp out varroa. Personally, I would favor this over treating everything with "coumaphos," though both options are distasteful. And if that day comes where the majority is using AI stock, just as the majority of farmers is using commercial seeds, then we will have to establish apiaries where the common stock is maintained, just as institutions like the NYS Agricultural Station maintain seed stock for future generations who may find what we have done in the name of "stock improvement" to be grossly misguided. Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 13:11:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Feral Colonies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote: > In any given area, even prior to the arrival of Varroa, feral > populations have always been very small and I seriously doubt if they > have ever been the primary source of genes in the USA. In my area, a mix of suburbs and farm land with no commercial bee operations, most bee colonies were feral, living in trees and in the walls of buildings. I counted on swarms from these colonies for a supply of bees each spring. And, I suspect, my queens counted on feral drones to put some genetic diversity into the worker eggs they produced. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 19:59:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ron taylor Organization: Limestone College Subject: One Day Beekeeping Course, Saturday Nov 20 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Lowcountry and Colleton County Beekeepers will be conducting a one day "Introduction to Beekeeping" Course. This course will be scheduled on Saturday, November 20th from 9:00 to 5:00 P M at "Bee City" in Cottageville, South Carolina. Bee City is located off highway 61 near the Givens State Park. Signs will be provided. (Bee City - 843-835-5912 for reservations) This workshop will include an Introduction to Beekeeping and Bee Biology, Equipment Needed, Installing Package Bees and Collecting Swarms, Detection and Control of Diseases and Extracting and Processing Honey. The exam for the "Certified Beekeeper" level of the South Carolina State Beekeepers Master Beekeeper program will be available at a cost of $5.00. A field day will held in the Spring of 2000 for practical experience of opening a beehive to observe bee behavior and locating queens and to complete the practical portion of the "Certified Beekeepers" program. The cost for this course is $25.00 per person and $30.00 per family Participants are asked to bring a brown bag lunch. Drinks will be provided. This course will be taught by Journeyman Beekeepers Archie and Diane Biering and Ron Taylor. To register for this course call Archie Biering at 843-835-5912 or Ron Taylor at 843-835-2482 or email: rtaylor421@lowcountry.com. Sincerely: Ron Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 08:31:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Advertising Events, Products, Bees, Equipment, Jobs, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although advertisements are not particularly welcome on BEE-L or sci.agriculture.beekeeping, you are very welcome to advertise any bee related item at http://www.delphi.com/BeeAds/. This is the new location of the famous FREE BEE CLASSIFIED ADS and it is working well. I know for a fact that they work amazingly quickly for those who post items for sale or wanted. Please drop by http://www.delphi.com/BeeAds/ often and check out what's there or add your own items. It is free and without obligation of any kind. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 22:47:26 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Treatment for mites in Missouri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could it be that more mites are dying on the bees because there isn't enough brood at this time of year? Or that there isn't enough activity among the bees (feeding brood) to facilitate the mites getting to brood? Mite fall might not be a constant indicator year-round of whether one has a truely significant infestation. John