From samba!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae446 Sun May 23 11:53:06 EDT 1993
Article: 5476 of misc.rural
Xref: samba misc.rural:5476 alt.activism:39871 talk.environment:9013
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From: ae446@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Agricultural Conservation Awards: Nominations Sought
Message-ID: <C7Cq1p.6Et@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: ae446@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet, Ottawa
Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 00:44:13 GMT
Lines: 46


Here is a press release from American Farmland Trust.

 American Farmland Trust Seeks Nominations For Agricultural
Conservation Awards
 To: National Desk, Environment Writer
 Contact: Gary Kozel of the American Farmland Trust, 202-659-5170

   WASHINGTON, May 20  -- American Farmland Trust
(AFT), a national farmland conservation group based in Washington,
announced today it is accepting nominations for its tenth annual
Agricultural Conservation Awards.
   The awards honor individuals and organizations making an
outstanding contribution to the protection of the nation's
agricultural resources.  AFT established the awards in 1984 to
encourage broad participation in agricultural resource conservation.
   Awards recognize superior efforts by individuals, private groups
or governmental bodies that:
   -- Establish or improve upon public policy that promotes farmland
protection;
   -- Protect the long-term viability of a specific farmland
area, either by saving it from development or soil erosion or
by promoting techniques that reduce the negative impacts of
agricultural land use on the environment;
   -- Communicate the need to conserve the country's agricultural
resources; or,
   -- Display a strong commitment to agricultural resource
conservation by directly protecting farmland, funding special
conservation projects or adjusting farming operations to reduce
negative impacts on agricultural land.
   Nominations must include a one-page summary of the nominee's
accomplishments.  Supporting documentation of up to 10 pages must
include three letters of recommendation, detailed descriptions or
examples of the nominee's accomplishments, and any newspaper or
magazine articles.  Self nominations are allowed.  All nominations
must include the names and addresses of the nominee and nominator.
   Materials or questions should be sent to the Awards Coordinator,
AFT's National Office, 1920 N Street, NW, Suite 400, Washington,
D.C.  20036.  Nominations must be received by Sept. 1, 1993.  Awards
will be presented at special ceremonies later this year.

 -30-


-- 
Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada  ae446@freenet.carleton.ca


From samba!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!hri.com!opl.com!psinntp!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!muff.webo.dg.com!don Sun May 23 11:54:07 EDT 1993
Article: 5475 of misc.rural
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From: don@muff.webo.dg.com (Don Perkins)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Reclaiming/building pasture
Message-ID: <1993May20.201539.13441@webo.dg.com>
Date: 20 May 93 20:15:39 GMT
References: <C78AyG.3Ku@eis.calstate.edu>
Sender: don@muff (Don Perkins)
Reply-To: don@muff.webo.dg.com
Followup-To: misc.rural
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Lines: 16

The technique that I have used is to fence the sheep into an appropriately
sized area.  Feed hay to the sheep in this area until there is a layer of sheep
manure and waste hay built up.  Move the sheep to another area and repeat.
The waste hay will contain some seed, some more seed will pass thru the
sheep.  This seed is nicely mulched by the hay straw the sheep didn't eat 
and fertilized by the manure.

I turned some rather infertile soil into pasture this way.
I also eliminate bare/low growth spots in my pasture by feeding hay to the
sheep at the location I wish to 'improve'.

If a soil test indicates, the addition of lime, as mentioned by other(s), will
help speed things along.

--
Don P.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!meaddata!christ Sun May 30 12:34:09 EDT 1993
Article: 5533 of misc.rural
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From: christ@meaddata.com (Chris Tilton)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: exotic livestock
Date: 29 May 1993 18:25:20 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 18
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <1u89qg$qi2@meaddata.meaddata.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hundred.meaddata.com
Keywords: livestock

My wife and I are interested in raising emus or rheas.  But we would
like to have more information.  The market is very speculative now,
so we are wanting more information.  This would include info on
feed/gain ratio's and dressing percentage.  Also is this meat sold in
other countries?  If so how much of a market share does this meat
have?  If some one has travelled to South America or Australia perhaps
they  could mention whether this type of meat is sold widely.  Thanks
for your reply.


-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
J. Chris Tilton         "Pay no attention to the man
Mead Data Central       behind the curtain."
profs: jct3
christ@meaddata.com     the wizard, The Wizard of OZ
ext. 6042
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!rijtaylo Sun May 30 23:29:32 EDT 1993
Article: 5525 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: rijtaylo@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Crafty)
Subject: need contacts in Sustainable Agriculture
Message-ID: <C7p1Fw.E5M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 16:21:32 GMT
Lines: 77

To whom it may concern;

	I am seeking opportunities for paid or subsistence work in sustainable 
agriculture, preferably within an indigenous/intentional-community or other
non-market context.
	I am currently working with Stranger's Hill organic farm near 
Bloomington, Indiana, and will be there over this coming summer learning 
small-scale growing and distribution methods such as Community Supported 
Agriculture. I would like to use my background in the life sciences in
support of peoples' efforts to feed their communities in economically  
self-reliant and ecologically sustainable  ways. 
	I enjoy my work at the farm and I hope that you or someone you know 
will find my experience valuable. My stay there will be over by October of '93 
and I would much appreciate hearing from you by then. 


Sincerely,
 
Richard Taylor
rijtaylo@ucs.indiana.edu

ps if you are familiar with other groups or lists to which I might crosspost
(especially organic/sustainable ag groups) please let me know.



/*========================= Resume follows ================================*/



Richard J. Taylor 
523 S. Park
Bloomington, IN  47401
812-332-7530
rijtaylo@ucs.indiana.edu

Long-term Goal:

	Wish to work with non-governmental organization promoting
	sustainable agricultural practices and local self-reliance.
	
Education: 

	BS Biology, May 1993
	Indiana University at Bloomington, Indiana
	GPA 3.12 out of 4.0

Work Experience:
	
	Hired hand at Stranger's Hill organic farm near Bloomington, Indiana.
	Assist with light construction duties, greenhouse and field work.
	Jan 93-present

	Co-founder of Cheshire Cafe at Collins Residence Hall.  Helped
	assess and fulfill needs for equipment and furnishings,
	established kitchen protocol, supervised nightly setup and
	takedown of equipment, trained other volunteers.
    	Sep-Dec 90

Other skills:  

	Familiar with Wordperfect, File Transfer Protocol, Scheme and C 
        programming languages, VMS and UNIX operating systems.	
	
Activities/Community Service: 

	Cook/washer with Community Kitchen		         Jan-Mar 93
	Active with Bloomington Peace and Justice Center 	 Aug-Dec 91
	Deputy Registrar, Municipal Elections, Monroe County, IN Sep-Oct 91   
	Residence Hall Floor Governor                            Sep 90-May 91
               
References: 

	Marti Crouch		Mike Tansey    		Stranger's Hill
							c/o Dale Jones
	832 W  8th St.		JH 005, Biology Dept.	2815 Louden Rd
	Bloomington, IN 47404   Bloomington, IN 47405  	Bloomington, IN 47402


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!uunet!psinntp!witch!east-wind!jay Mon May 31 04:56:56 EDT 1993
Article: 5534 of misc.rural
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Newsgroups: misc.rural
Message-ID: <110@east-wind.win.net>
References: <C6z5Fv.MJ2@SSD.intel.com>
Reply-To: jay@east-wind.win.net (Jay Miller)
From: jay@east-wind.win.net (Jay Miller)
Date: Sun, 30 May 1993 14:20:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Free ranging turkeys?
Lines: 29

 
>
>I'm looking for information about free ranging turkeys. Specifically,
>I believe that there is a grower somewhere in the Northwest that
>raises turkeys that are closer to wild turkeys than to those pea-brained
>domesticated turkeys you see wandering about without a clue.
>
>From what I recall, the strain developed as unpampered turkeys
>were left to themselves to forage and breed at will,
>eventually leading to a strain that pretty much takes care of itself.
>
>I thought the grower was in the Scio, Oregon area but the Scio
>Chamber of Commerce hadn't heard of them.
>
>Can anyone help me out?
>

Someone just told me that a lot of states are introducing wild turkeys
into state parks, and there are farms that are raising wild turkeys for
this purpose, so if you contact the state they aught to be able to tell
you where you can get them.

If you find anything, please post it, I'm interested in this as well.
 

--------------------------------------------
Jay Miller               East Wind Community
jay@east-wind.win.net    Tecumseh, MO  65760
--------------------------------------------


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!spectra!gurley Thu Jun  3 10:37:36 EDT 1993
Article: 5539 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.woodworking
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From: gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley)
Subject: Bridge construction
Message-ID: <1993Jun2.220059.16956@spectra.com>
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 22:00:59 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:5539 rec.woodworking:20148

I'm in the midst of building a "real man's" bridge (concrete piling, W21
steel beams, and 6x6 timber deck) and I'm wondering what I can do to
extend the life of the timber deck.  It will be Doug Fir and will represent
about $1200 investment (@$925/mbf without delivery from the mill).

The stream the bridge crosses is a Class 1 (Oregon term) trout/salmon
stream whose inhabitants are on the state "threatened" list.  The last
thing I want to do is "risk" the habitat by having creosote drip into the
creek everytime it rains.

What choices do I have for wood preservative that won't leach out or better
yet, is non-poisonous to higher animals/plants (probably tough to inhibit
rot and not hurt plants!)?  I would apply anything before construction, so
"splash" or overspray isn't a problem...just the longer term effects.

Anyone have a good estimate on the lifespan of such treated wood would be
versus untreated fir?  If the differential isn't huge, I can just live
with replacement every x years...and maybe cut back on my charitiable acts
to 'other' environmental organizations.

Unfortunately, the "pitchy-pine" that I'm using for the treads only comes
in 3x12, since it's got so much sap in it it is self-preserving.



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!phobos!lbm Thu Jun  3 10:40:08 EDT 1993
Article: 5540 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims)
Subject: Horse Cooperative (Long)
Message-ID: <1993Jun2.235251.26773@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>
Sender: nobody@ctr.columbia.edu
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1993 23:52:51 GMT
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Lines: 172


I want to float an idea.  This is only an idea.  I hope that, with
feedback from the net, this could be turned into a proto-plan.


The Problem

My very first net posting (modern era) revolved around the financial
obstacles a person like myself faces trying to satisfy these
conflicting parameters:

- Loves horses.  Wants to live with them on my property.

- Although well-employed, income insufficient to afford a reasonable
  horse property (decent barn, acerage to support a mare and foal in
  good pasture, fencing, rings, and the more glamorous appointments
  like indoor arenas, acerage for trail riding, training tracks,
  cross-country courses, and $o on).

- A demanding job, with much time away from the property during
  which the horses would be unattended.

The usual solution to this is BOARD.  The problem with BOARD is
1 horse x $BOARD = possible.  2+ horses x $BOARD = impossible.
Since I want to get into small-scale breeding, the BOARD solution
is not feasible.

The response to my original posting led me to believe that quite
a few people share my dilemna.  Those few that had solved it had
done so through some combination of these factors:  by being married and
having two incomes; by living in a low-cost area that still had
enough high-tech to produce a reasonable job (Austin, TX; North
Carolina, small rural universities); by getting up at extraordinary
hours in the morning to drive long distances to their jobs.

Perhaps the most reasonable solution that came back from the net to the
original posting was to this effect, "Lease a pasture with
run-in shed on a private non-commercial horse farm with people who live there
who can at least look in on the horses in case of emergency."  That's
not half bad.  However, I wonder if it isn't possible to do better.


An Idea

"The Boston Globe" has run several articles recently that deal with
housing cooperatives.  The usual scenario is a bunch of people with
similar backgrounds/ages/financial resources who band together to
form what is, in effect, a development company.  The people are looking for
a semi-communal environment in which to raise their children.  They hire lawyers,
real estate people, architects, etc., and then go looking for a likely
property.  When they find it, their architects come up with a design
for a planned community that includes single family residences, but with
common facilities like wells, septic, day care, open space, and a central
meeting hall/kitchen.  They get approval from the town, and set about building
their ideal environment.

None of the Globe's articles covered completed communities, only those
in planning.  And none discussed financial arrangements or ownership
structures (cooperative, condominium, what-not) in detail.  They
did point out that finding bank financing can be difficult.

It should be pretty obvious where this is going.  I wonder if it wouldn't
be possible to do the same thing, but with a common interest in horses
as the glue holding the set-up together.


Existing Models?

I've only heard of two horse condos.  They condo-ized the old USET
facility in Hamilton, Massachusetts around eight years ago.  I understand
it was pretty much a disaster.  The facility included no living arrangements for
people--the "condo" you bought was the horse's stall.
(I think it was $70,000 for a stall, PLUS a monthly condo fee of
around $600.)  Well, that was a very ritzy setup in a very ritzy
neighborhood.

There was also a horse condo in southern New Hampshire.  This had
regular townhouse style 1 and 2 bedroom condos, plus a barn and
some paddocks.  However, I think you had to pay regular board on
the stalls in the barn.  I don't know any details about this place or whether
it survived.  There have also been some horse-centered communities
developed in Southern California, like the one in Ramona east of San Diego.
However, these were very high-end income communities, and, again, I
think that, although there were stable facilities, they weren't
really part of what you owned when you purchased.  They were more
like the community supermarket--a private business in close proximity.


Getting Specific

So, the idea goes something like this:

50, 100, 200 acres of open land that is still near enough to the
high-tech centers where people work that they can commute to their
jobs.

Enough families in on the deal to make it financially feasible
(cost of land + cost of utilities + cost of common facilities + cost
of building a private home (presumably less since the builder is
building multiple residences) + insurance + cushion)/N?  Is N 5, 10, 15 people?
What does the equation really look like?

Common barn, fenced pastures, with plans for further improvement, and perhaps
provision for small private barns and paddocks (to house stallions, for example).

Perhaps enough $$ for one person for maintenance and fill-in barn
help.  (The assumption is that people would do most of their own horse
work, with informal arrangements among the participants for morning/evening/
vacation chore sharing.)

Everybody lives in their own house, perhaps clustered rather cozily together
to minimize cost, but use the common horse facilities.

Some kind of charter that has a prayer of keeping the thing together
and reasonably stable over time.  Things I've heard are:

- the people have to have reasonably comparable financial resources.
  Otherwise, the two married doctors want to build an indoor arena that the
  single technical writers can't afford.  Factions develop and one group
  (the poor one) ends up getting priced out of the deal.

- liability.  This is a real killer.  What happens when the Nason's kid
  gets kicked in the head by the Bolton's mare?

- enough people for stability.  If you've got just three in on the deal,
  what happens if two of them get laid off?

- settling disputes.  However good the manners on the net, my observation
  has been that horse people fight alot.


The Questions

Well, the first question is, Does an arrangement like this appeal to you?
Would you really be willing to go in on such a deal?  How long would
you be willing to wait for it to come to fruition, particularly given
that you might have to have a fair amount of cash set aside to "move"
quickly when the right place became available?  (I'm not sure of
this in my own mind, myself.)

What would you want in the charter?  What balance of freedom and restriction?
Stability and liquidity?  What kind of "government" would you establish?

How would you structure ownership?  Common areas?  Is one's ownership
interest in such a set-up really sellable?

What problems could you forsee and how would you deflect them in advance?

How would you set about finding the people for this cooperative?  What
kind of screening would you apply?

What sort of experts would you need to employ to put the deal together?
A horse-loving developer who is sympathetic to unrich people and willing to
act as consultant?

And if it doesn't appeal to you, what are the "fatal flaws" that kill the
deal for you?


Either post privately and I'll summarize, or post to the net.

I'm really open to any ideas at all.  And NO, you aren't being solicited
for anything, nor is your name going on any kind of a marketing list!!
I was just ruminating...


Linda B. Merims
Waltham, MA






From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!dand Thu Jun  3 23:52:14 EDT 1993
Article: 5550 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: dand@ssd.intel.com (Dan Dreiszus)
Subject: Re: Free ranging turkeys? (Followup)
Message-ID: <C825py.ADB@SSD.intel.com>
Sender: usenet@SSD.intel.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: gormley
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.
References: <C6z5Fv.MJ2@SSD.intel.com> <110@east-wind.win.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 18:22:45 GMT
Lines: 59

Several netters forwarded me the original post, which appeared
some time ago. Since there seems to be a lot of interest in this,
I'm re-posting it.

The name of the breed is the Wishard Bronze turkey. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The author of the article below, David Sullenberger, is a professor of 
biology at New Mexico State University. He is an AMBC member, and keeps
a flock of Wishard Bronze turkeys. For a copy of the entire article plus
the bibliography, send a 45-cent SASE to AMBC, Box 477, Pittsboro, NC 27312.

In the not too distant past turkey was strictly holiday fare. Supply was
seasonal and nearly always lagging demand, which made turkey too expensive
for everyday meals. Intense management, close confinement, balanced 
rations, sub-therapeutic medication, growth hormones, selective breeding
and artificial insemination (AI) have changed all that.

The use of AI has been critical, because over the past 25 years breeders
have been busy putting more meat on the birds - especially breast meat -
and those large, meaty breasts very effectively prevent the toms from
mating.

There is, however, at least one breed of domestic turkey that can procreate
without aid from man. The "unimproved" breed is the Wishard strain of
naturally mating Bronze turkeys. Wishard naturally mating bronze turkeys
are vigorous, flight-capable, intelligent, good-looking, weather-tolerant
and disease resistant. They got that way by virture of nearly 50 years of
what for all practical purposes amounts to natural selection - Wishard 
turkeys have never been pampered.

"They either made it or they didn't. They flew to avoid coyotes, hid to
avoid hawks, foraged for a lot of their diet ant if they got sick they lived
or died on their own." Wishard hatched eggs from his own hens, raised the 
poults to 8 weeks on wire, then turned them out to pasture to fend for 
themselves until harvest. The ranging birds were provided with minimal
care in simple facilities consisting of pastures enclosed by woven wire
fence, elementary shelters and roots, feeding and watering stations 
which were moved a few yards each week to minimize ground contamination,
and rotation to new pasture as appropriate. Breeding stock were those 
birds held over at harvest time. No formal selective or pedigree breeding
was practiced and all mating was the responsibility of the toms - exclusively.

The Wishard strain of bronze turkeys represents an invaluable genetic 
resourse of highly adapted, low-input, production meat birds. As we enter
the 1990's - a period in which our nation's agricultural productions
practices will be seriously questioned by chemically-conscious consumers,
environmentalists and politicians - there is comfort in knowing that at
least one low-input, self-propagating turkey breed is still around and 
competing nicely.


If you are interested in beginning a flock of Wishard Bronze turkeys, 
contact Wish Hatchery, Box 362, Prairie City, OR 97869, (503) 820-3509.

AMBC member Peter Jorgensen also has a flock of Wishard Bronze, and can
be reached at CS Fund Conservancy, 469 Bohemian Highway, Freestone,
CA 95472, (707) 874-2942.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ehbbs!trish.rucker Mon Jun  7 00:01:25 EDT 1993
Article: 5569 of misc.rural
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From: trish.rucker@ehbbs.com (Trish Rucker) 
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: The Letter Box
Message-ID: <964.723.uupcb@ehbbs.com>
Date: 5 Jun 93 10:00:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Berkeley Lake, GA - 404-446-9462
Reply-To: trish.rucker@ehbbs.com (Trish Rucker) 
Lines: 65

The art of conversation is not dead.  It lives on at THE
LETTER BOX.   Are you interested in ...
... exchanging letters with others who share your
interests?
... meeting someone special to date?
... learning about states or countries you would like
to visit?
Then THE LETTER BOX is what you're looking for!  Each
issue of THE LETTER BOX includes names, addresses, and
descriptions of people who are eager to write you.
Issues are published quarterly (January, April, July,
October).  For $5 you can receive one issue, or you
can receive one year's subscription (4 issues) for
$20.
.
To participate:
(1)     Fill out the questionnaire below.
(2)     Enclose $5 for one issue, or $20 for yearly
membership (4 issues).  Please make out all
checks to T. Rucker.
(3)     Mail to:
THE LETTER BOX
c/o T. Rucker
P. O. Box 37
Decatur, GA  30031-0037
USA
.
***************THE LETTER BOX QUESTIONNAIRE*****************
.
(1)     Name
(2)     City
(3)     State
(4)     Do you prefer to correspond via U.S. mail or Internet?
(5)     (Postal) mailing address
(6)     Internet address (if available)
(7)     Age
(8)     Date of birth
(9)     Gender
(10)    Relationship/marital status
(11)    Physical description
(12)    Are you interested in penpals, dating, or travel?
(13)    Occupation
(14)    If student, college major
(15)    Favorite music
(16)    Favorite book(s)
(17)    Favorite movie(s)
(18)    Favorite food(s)
(19)    Favorite sport(s)
(20)    Hobbies and interests
(21)    (The essay question!)  How would you describe yourself
in 25 words or less?
.
I put out some initial feelers about this service earlier this
year and was surprised to get over 1000 responses!   Therefore,
THE LETTER BOX has grown from a hobby to a small service-business.
Don't be shy.  This is a great way to meet interesting people.
Mail today and start receiving letters soon!
---
. SLMR 2.1a #5373 . E is for Edward who died of ennui.

----
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From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!jwg2y Wed Jun  9 23:23:26 EDT 1993
Article: 5577 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade)
Subject: Honey
Message-ID: <C8B3Gv.E7v@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 14:12:30 GMT
Lines: 14

This is my second year as a bee hive owner.  I got the bees too late last
year to take any honey--they needed it to winter on.  I have the hive
with two shallow supers on top and have not looked in yet this year.  The
hive seems very strong and the nectar flow has been great. My question is
when should I harvest any honey?  Should I take the middle super off and
take that honey or should I wait until fall.  I should say that last
September when I looked in the hive, the middle super was full but the
top one only had comb built on 1/3 of the frames. Should I harvest
anything now?

--
Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu
804-924-7409



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!news.tek.com!tekig7!bs Wed Jun 23 23:15:20 EDT 1993
Article: 5697 of misc.rural
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From: bs@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Robert L Swarts)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Snail farming
Message-ID: <10452@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>
Date: 22 Jun 93 14:21:56 GMT
References: <1993Jun21.155010.1@zac.riv.csu.edu.au> <1993Jun22.083815.560@gems.vcu.edu>
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.
Lines: 12

In article <1993Jun22.083815.560@gems.vcu.edu> agnew@gems.vcu.edu (Brainwave Surfer) writes:
>In article <1993Jun21.155010.1@zac.riv.csu.edu.au>, bbrown@zac.riv.csu.edu.au writes:
>> Can anybody supply any information on snail farming?!
>> As in the snails one eats...
>
>The only think I know is don't dare feed 'em beer.  It kills slugs...  ;-)
>
See the latest issue of Mother Earth News.

bs




From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins Wed Jun 23 23:16:28 EDT 1993
Article: 5700 of misc.rural
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From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lehman's Hardware (info sought)
Date: 22 Jun 1993 17:29:55 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <207fij$n6t@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
References: <psmith.740768768@cunews>
NNTP-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:5700 rec.gardens:18862

In article psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes:

>If there is anyone out there who has purchased/seen their equipment
>first-hand could you let me know if it was good quality and built to
>last.  Other info re:  customer relations (good or bad) would also be
>appreciated.
>
>
>Thanks very much in advance!


I've ordered some items from them and all the stuff I purchases has 
been top-notch quality.  Plus their service is quick and accurate.


JH
Horticulture Dept./OSU


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!world!rogerw Wed Jun 23 23:16:57 EDT 1993
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From: rogerw@world.std.com (Roger A Williams)
Subject: Re: Lehman's Hardware (info sought)
Message-ID: <C91LHp.ExB@world.std.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
References: <psmith.740768768@cunews>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 21:39:23 GMT
Lines: 16
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:5702 rec.gardens:18881

psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes:

>I hope I have the name right.  I understand that this store sells a
>lot of human-powered farm tools.   I have sent away for a mail-order
>catalogue, as I am unable to visit in person to inspect before
>purchasing.  

.
.
.

>Lehman's is apparently where the Mennonites etc buy a lot of
>equipment, and I find human-powered equipment for serious work hard to
>come by.  So any info is extremely useful.

Sounds interesting; would you mind posting their address & phone number?


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!ctron-news.ctron.com!ctron-news.ctron.com!usenet Wed Jun 23 23:17:35 EDT 1993
Article: 5706 of misc.rural
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From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lehman's Hardware (info sought)
Date: 23 Jun 1993 13:00:13 GMT
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.
Lines: 57
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <209k4uINN4o1@ctron-news.ctron.com>
References: <psmith.740768768@cunews> <C91LHp.ExB@world.std.com>
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: glinda.ctron.com
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:5706 rec.gardens:18902

In article <C91LHp.ExB@world.std.com>, rogerw@world.std.com (Roger A Williams) writes:
>psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes:

>>Lehman's is apparently where the Mennonites etc buy a lot of
>>equipment, and I find human-powered equipment for serious work hard to
>>come by.  So any info is extremely useful.

>Sounds interesting; would you mind posting their address & phone number?

>From the misc.rural list of rural references:

Lehman's Hardware
    POB 41
    4779 Kidron Rd
    Kidron, Ohio 44636
    216-857-5441  (fax) 216/857-5785

    This (and Cumberland) are like looking at turn of the century
    Sears catalogs - that you can still order from!  Lots of great
    stuff, most at reasonable prices.

    Lehman's Non-Electric Good Neighbor Heritage Catalog ($2.00)

    If it doesn't run on electricity, it's in there somewhere

    "Merchandise reflecting an undying culture, a reverence for
    tradition, and sensible ways to meet today's needs.

	Kitchen & Housewares		A Variety of the Hard-to-Find
	Stoves for Heating & Cooking	Non-Electric Appliances
	Farming and Homesteading	Woodworking & Logsmithing"

    They claim to cater to the Amish (hence the non-electric
    appliances).  The catalog *is* neat, and they have some interested
    stuff, but it tends to be pricey.  Where else are you going to
    find a wringer clothes washer with a 3 H.P. Briggs & Stratton
    engine?

You might also check out:

Cumberland General Store
    Rt 3 Box 81
    Crossville, TN 38555
    800/334-4640

    Same as Lehman's but bigger selection; e.g. includes buggies and
    buggy parts, horse drawn equipment, blacksmithing tools (though
    these are better bought used), patent medicines, &c.

    Catalog is $3 (refundable)  "old time general merchandise".  About
    270 pages of "Goods in Endless Variety for Man & Beast".


Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!icd.ab.com!iccgcc.decnet.ab.com!cselc19.cs.hh.ab.com!boldt Wed Jun 23 23:19:27 EDT 1993
Article: 5711 of misc.rural
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Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Lehman's Hardware (info sought)
Message-ID: <1993Jun23.123041.10781@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>
From: boldt@cselc19.cs.hh.ab.com (Peter Boldt)
Date: 23 Jun 93 12:30:41 EST
References: <psmith.740768768@cunews>
Distribution: world
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.
Nntp-Posting-Host: cselc19.cs.hh.ab.com
Lines: 11
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:5711 rec.gardens:18932


  I've ordered from them, the equipment varies in quality, but seems good.

  There are other sources for small scale equipment, depending on what
  you are looking for.  If you want Big garden/small Farm stuff, there is
  more modern equipment available. ( at a higher price ) from places like
  Peaceful Valley Farms ( in Calif ), and others.  Lehman's does have a
  good all around selection of stuff that would help you be self sufficient.

  I've even visited the store ( twice ), but the only amish/memonites
  that were in the store were behind the counter.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!artschoolm85h50.artschool.utas.edu.au!user Mon Jun 28 18:30:24 EDT 1993
Article: 5727 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: R.H.Rohner@artschool.utas.edu.au (Raymond Rohner)
Subject: AGRART, the interface of art and agriculture
Message-ID: <R.H.Rohner-280693105823@artschoolm85h50.artschool.utas.edu.au>
Followup-To: misc.rural
Sender: news@newsroom.utas.edu.au
Organization: School of Art, University of Tasmania
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 00:56:57 GMT
Lines: 28

AGRART is a research concept based on the combination of Agriculture and
Art. Ever since the early history of human civilisation, Art and
Agriculture have been associated with each other. Their mutual relationship
is very wide-ranging. At one extreme it is, for example, concerned with
ritual performances during harvest celebrations and at the other extreme we
find van Gogh's paintings of rural scenes. An increasing number of
contemporary artists take the land and/or the growth of plants as their
subject-matter. These would include: David Nash, Sjoerd Buisman, Wolfgang
Laib, Richard Long, Hamish Fulton and Andy Goldsworthy.

AGRART covers various issues, for example:

*       artistic creativity as a means for planing, implementing and   
monitoring of agricultural development projects.
*       media agricultural stereotypes influencing public opinion.
*       parallels between Art Philosophy and Agricultural Science.

*************************************************

One current case study of AGRART is dealing with pigs. In order to create a
comprehensive catalogue of the cultural and psychological aspects of pigs I
am looking for appropriate literature and information on this subject.
Please address correspondence to:
R.H.Rohner@artschool.utas.edu.au

Raymond Rohner
Tasmanian School of Art
Hobart


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!controls.ccd.harris.com!parsons Mon Jun 28 18:31:06 EDT 1993
Article: 5729 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: parsons@ccd.harris.com (Dick Parsons)
Subject: Re: Beekeeping Mailing List?
Message-ID: <1993Jun28.173334.6705@ccd.harris.com>
Sender: usenet@ccd.harris.com
Organization: Harris Controls Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
References: <1993Jun27.114630.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 17:33:34 GMT
Lines: 27

ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu wrote:
: Hi,

: 	I'm interested in Beekeeping (i don't have any hives yet) and I'd like
: to know if there is a beekeeping mailing list somewhere on the net...there's a
: mailing list for *EVERYTHING* on the net, but where is it?
: 	Thanks.

: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Dave D. Cawley		   |	Where a social revolution is pending and,
: University Of Scranton	   |	for whatever reason, is not accomplished,
: ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu	   |	reaction is the alternative.
: ddc1@SCRANTON		   |				-Daniel De Leon
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is a mailing list.  Send a mail message to:  listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu
The body of the message consists of one line:  SUBSCRIBE BEE-L <your name>


-------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Dick Parsons                   |      ----    
NRA Life Member                |      | o       ~
Certified:  IPA IRA ISA IHA    |      L_|->_______I_
Harris Controls Division       |    _/   \_|       |
Melbourne, Florida             |   [|  o  |------_--[]   "I'd rather be
email: dparsons@ccd.harris.com | ... \___/      (o)  ...  be farming!" 
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!mlb.semi.harris.com!controls.ccd.harris.com!parsons Mon Jun 28 18:31:32 EDT 1993
Article: 5729 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: parsons@ccd.harris.com (Dick Parsons)
Subject: Re: Beekeeping Mailing List?
Message-ID: <1993Jun28.173334.6705@ccd.harris.com>
Sender: usenet@ccd.harris.com
Organization: Harris Controls Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
References: <1993Jun27.114630.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 17:33:34 GMT
Lines: 27

ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu wrote:
: Hi,

: 	I'm interested in Beekeeping (i don't have any hives yet) and I'd like
: to know if there is a beekeeping mailing list somewhere on the net...there's a
: mailing list for *EVERYTHING* on the net, but where is it?
: 	Thanks.

: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Dave D. Cawley		   |	Where a social revolution is pending and,
: University Of Scranton	   |	for whatever reason, is not accomplished,
: ddc1@jaguar.uofs.edu	   |	reaction is the alternative.
: ddc1@SCRANTON		   |				-Daniel De Leon
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is a mailing list.  Send a mail message to:  listserv@uacsc2.albany.edu
The body of the message consists of one line:  SUBSCRIBE BEE-L <your name>


-------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Dick Parsons                   |      ----    
NRA Life Member                |      | o       ~
Certified:  IPA IRA ISA IHA    |      L_|->_______I_
Harris Controls Division       |    _/   \_|       |
Melbourne, Florida             |   [|  o  |------_--[]   "I'd rather be
email: dparsons@ccd.harris.com | ... \___/      (o)  ...  be farming!" 
-------------------------------+---------------------------------------


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!adamf Tue Jun 29 23:08:37 EDT 1993
Article: 5731 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: adamf@hopper.ACS.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein)
Subject: Re: Beekeeping Mailing List?
Message-ID: <C9Cq8n.9y8@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: U.Va. Internet Public Access Project
References: <1993Jun27.114630.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> <1993Jun28.173334.6705@ccd.harris.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 21:55:35 GMT
Lines: 8

Adam Finkelstein 
VDACS Apiary Inspector
116 Reservoir St.
Harrisonburg, VA 22801
703-433-1006 
adamf@virginia.edu




From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!hopper!adamf Tue Jun 29 23:09:32 EDT 1993
Article: 5733 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: adamf@hopper.ACS.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein)
Subject: Honeybee Mailing List- other info sources
Message-ID: <C9Dro7.67z@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: U.Va. Internet Public Access Project
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 11:24:06 GMT
Lines: 15

Last article was  flubbed: 
A good source of bee info is available from the PenPages at Penn State.
telnet: psupen.psu.edu. Log-in as your state abb. (I would type VA)
look for the "Bee Aware" newsletter.

I am also available to answer bee questions and search for bee info.
I deal with both commercial and hobby beekeepers and have my account to
help bee folks in anyway I can, so let me know!
Adam
Adam Finkelstein
VDACS Apiary Inspector
116 Reservoir St.
Harrisonburg, VA 22801
703-433-1006
adamf@virginia.edu


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!vmd.cso.uiuc.edu!TROUTMAN Mon Jul  5 11:28:52 EDT 1993
Article: 5701 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural,alt.co-evolution,rec.gardens
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From: TROUTMAN@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Great book: Noah's Garden (Sara Stein; ISBN 0-395-65373-8)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 19:22:17 GMT
Message-ID: <16BF5CA25.TROUTMAN@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
References:  <hankC90Enz.90B@netcom.com>
Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
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In article <hankC90Enz.90B@netcom.com>
hank@netcom.com (Hank Roberts) writes:
 
>
>This is a wonderful book, describing working on six acres (with
>much attention to what can be done even on the tiny urban backyard
>scale).   37 pages at the back of index, book list, and species lists.
>
>I just wanted to tell y'all it exists and urge it upon any librarians
>who may be reading these groups.
 
I was going to send a message about this book today myself.  I'm
just finishing it now and I think I'm converted!  Her arguments
for conserving and preserving our American ecological heritage
are so reasoned and convincing.  She basically posits that our
fascination with imported exotics and ornamentals, along with our
obsession with big, green lawns is destroying our environment.
I'd love to hear from those more knowledgeable about garden
ecology than I about this book and what Stein says.  I feel like
replanting the yard with native Illinois prairie grasses!
 
Leslie Troutman
VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!NewsWatcher!user Mon Jul  5 11:29:40 EDT 1993
Article: 5715 of misc.rural
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From: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu (Bob Klebba)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Great book: Noah's Garden (Sara Stein; ISBN 0-395-65373-8)
Message-ID: <nicmad-240693173533@89.0.1.75>
Date: 24 Jun 93 22:42:01 GMT
References: <hankC90Enz.90B@netcom.com> <16BF5CA25.TROUTMAN@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Sender: usenet@nicmad.uucp
Followup-To: misc.rural,alt.co-evolution,rec.gardens
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Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_25

In article <16BF5CA25.TROUTMAN@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, TROUTMAN@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
wrote:

> I'd love to hear from those more knowledgeable about garden
> ecology than I about this book and what Stein says.  I feel like
> replanting the yard with native Illinois prairie grasses!
>  

I can't say I'm more knowledgeable about garden ecology and I haven't read
Noah's Garden, but I have been planting natives on my property.  Two years
ago I started eliminating a half-acre of quack grass.  I have since seeded
with native grasses and forbs.  When I look at the "restoration" now, I see
a lot of thistle, sorrel and other weeds.  Of course when I look closer, I
see all the little plants that are going to be the foundation of the
restored prairie.

In any case, even with my transition weed patch, the diversity of small
animals that now frequent my property is amazing!  I see many more
dragonflies and birds than I use to.  It is clear to me that the damage
green lawns impose on the environment goes beyond the effects of the
chemicals we apply to the lawns. 

Bob Klebba
Nicolet Instrument Corp.
Madison, WI, USA USDA zone 4
"Submit to Barney"


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!utcsri!relay.cs.toronto.edu!smoke.cs.toronto.edu!cs.toronto.edu!enenkel Mon Jul  5 11:31:42 EDT 1993
Article: 5760 of misc.rural
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Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu ("Robert F. Enenkel")
Subject: soil testing
Message-ID: <93Jul4.195651edt.754@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 4 Jul 93 23:57:11 GMT
Lines: 34

I have some questions about soil testing.  I'm rather a neophyte at this,
so if there are any professional pedologists out there, I hope they will
bear with me.

Because of my involvement with
fish culture, I am used to testing for the concentrations of various ions
in water. For instance, I have tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, 
pH, buffering capacity, and hardness.  These tests seem like they should also
have relevance to measurement of soil fertility.  The first 5 seem directly
applicable, buffering capacity sounds like something I've heard called
lime requirement, and hardness might serve as a measurement of calcium and
magnesium.  But I have a problem.  I understand what it means to say that a 
sample of water has a certain pH, say, but what does it mean in relation to 
soil?

Presumably it means the pH of the soil solution...or does it?  What if there
is some acidic or basic solid in the soil.  Then might the pH not depend on
how much is rains, as more of the solid would then dissolve?  Even if this
situation does not occur (does it, usually?), you can't directly measure the 
pH of the soil solution directly, so what it seems you do is make an extract 
from the soil using distilled water, and measure that.  But then it depends 
on how much soil and how much distilled water you use, doesn't it?  

What I thought I'd do (before I realised how surprisingly complicated this all
is), is test my soil and compare the results to published values which are
optimal for various plants, and then try to influence these values to make my
plants grow better.   However, such values as I've found seem to be given in 
lbs/acre. Now, if a soil sample contains x ppm of some nutrient (that is, some 
mass of nutrient per volume of soil), how can I convert that to lbs/acre, 
which is mass per area, whatever that means?

Awaiting some (any) enlightenment...

Robert Enenkel


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!Freenet.carleton.ca!ae446 Mon Jul  5 11:32:12 EDT 1993
Article: 5753 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: rec.birds,talk.environment,rec.backcountry,misc.rural
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From: ae446@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen)
Subject: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Considering Regulations on Shotgun
Message-ID: <C9J3qn.M0w@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: ae446@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet, Ottawa
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 08:32:47 GMT
Lines: 52
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu rec.birds:6430 talk.environment:9822 rec.backcountry:27133 misc.rural:5753


Here is a press release from the U.S. Department of the Interior.
I downloaded the press release from the PR On-Line BBS in 
Maryland at 410-363-0834.

 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Considering Regulations on Shotgun
Shells
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Hugh Vickery of the Department of the Interior,
          202-208-5634

   WASHINGTON, June 30 --   The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 
announced today it is seeking public comment
on a notice of intent to propose limits on the length of shotgun
shells, the size of shot, and the coatings on nontoxic shot
used in waterfowl hunting.
   The service said its notice is based on concerns that existing
waterfowl hunting regulations have become outdated in the face
of advancing technology.
   In a three-part notice published in the June 30 Federal Register,
the service announced its intent to limit the length of shotgun
shells to 3.5 inches, the largest currently available on the
market.  By limiting the length of shells, the service expects
to discourage long-range shooting that can lead to crippling
and, in effect, over harvest of birds.
   In addition, the service proposes to limit the diameter of
shot size to no larger than a No. T (0.20 inch).  The proposed
regulation is intended to reduce crippling losses by limiting
shot sizes to those that have been demonstrated to be the most
efficient for harvesting large waterfowl.
   Under the notice, the hunting community and others would
be given time to deplete their supplies of size No. F shot (0.22
inch), which is larger than T shot.
   The service also proposes to require shotgun shell manufacturers
to obtain the service's approval for anti-corrosive coatings
on nontoxic shot pellets.  Although nontoxic shot is currently
required to hunt waterfowl and coots in the United States, there
are currently no standards that control the coating applied
to the shot pellets, which could be toxic.  Waterfowl often
swallow spent shot as grit, and this regulation would attempt
to ensure that shot coatings would be nontoxic when ingested.
   Public comments will be considered for 90 days after publication
in the Federal Register.  Additional information on this proposal
can be obtained by writing:  Director/MBMO, U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, 4401 N. Fairfax Dr., Mail Stop 634, Arlington, Va.
22203 or by calling 703-358-1714.

 -30-


-- 
Nigel Allen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada  ae446@freenet.carleton.ca


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!usenet.ccur.com!gerryt Fri Jul 16 11:51:04 EDT 1993
Article: 5755 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: gerryt@westford.ccur.com (Gerry Toledo)
Subject: FARM TRACTORS
Message-ID: <1993Jul2.180227.216@westford.ccur.com>
Sender: usenet@westford.ccur.com (UNIX News)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp.  Westford, MA
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 18:02:27 GMT
Lines: 69



	I posted this to rec.equestrian and thought I would give
	this group a try.
	Thanks for any help in advance.



>From usenet.ccur.com!gerryt Fri Jul  2 09:33:30 EDT 1993
Article: 16611 of rec.equestrian
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Path: usenet.ccur.com!gerryt
From: gerryt@westford.ccur.com (Gerry Toledo)
Subject: TRACTORS
Message-ID: <1993Jul1.184800.6716@westford.ccur.com>
Sender: usenet@westford.ccur.com (UNIX News)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp.  Westford, MA
References: <npatton.4.0@swri.edu> <C9HDFx.CAD@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <93182.125239DBEAM@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 18:48:00 GMT





	I will be in the market for a tractor in the very near future and
	am hoping that the net can offer me some wisdom as to what type 
	to buy or stay away from. What implements would be most useful up
	front for a 17 horse boarding facility? I haven't decided whether
	to buy new or used. Alot of the used ones that I've looked at
	are in the 2 to 4k range. Some of these are up to 35 years old.
	I just don't think I can bring myself to pay $4000 for a 35 year
	old tractor.
	   I am leaning towards the Kubota 3450 which is 34 horsepower
	with 30 horsepower at the pto.
	   I will be moving manure and shavings, leveling the arena,
	making 50 acres worth of trails, and clearing some land. I also
	will be doing some landscaping, trenching, etc, etc. The land
	clearing will obviously give it the most abuse. Will I be
	underpowered? Am I buying too much tractor?



				Thanks in advance,
						Gerardo Toledo
						Winding Brook Farm
						Derry, N.H.




 	In reply to Tony's post about renting a tractor before you buy,
        it's a great idea. I have already rented the only one that I
        know of in the area. It was a 20 horsepower Kubota with a
        frontloader and a post hole digger. I thought I was a bit under-
        powered. The front loader was O.K. and I busted through some
        brush and made a clearing in which to dry my firewood fairly easily.
        The only problem I had was trying to move a couple of stumps
        that I had laying around. The front loader couldn't budge them
        and even in 4WD the tractor was too light to push them. These
        stumps weren't that huge. The tractor I buy had better be able
        to perform these absolutely essential tasks.
	At $150 a day I can't afford too many test drives.


                                        Gerardo Toledo
                                        Winding Brook Farm
                                        Derry, N.H.




From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mdisea!prager Fri Jul 16 11:51:05 EDT 1993
Article: 5756 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!mdisea!prager
From: prager@mdd.comm.mot.com (David Prager)
Subject: Re: lawn mowing (non-surburban style)
Message-ID: <1993Jul2.213448.2161@mdd.comm.mot.com>
Summary: baaaaaa, baaaaaa
Keywords: baaaaaa, baaaaaa
Sender: news@mdd.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola, Wireless Data Group - Seattle, WA
References: <> <30JUN199313231245@donald.uoregon.edu> <C9I4DL.Ky8@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 21:34:48 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <C9I4DL.Ky8@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil> yoshikami@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil writes:
>
>One way that they mentioned in the local newspaper is to buy some sheep. (!!)

>just to be sure you don't violate zoning or other things.  I have forgotten
>how many sheep it takes, but as far as cost is concerned, oddly enough after
>some finanacial analysis, they came out the cheapest for large areas of grass.  
>They might eat things you don't want them to, though.  The one major drawback is
>you'll have to buy hay in the winter and you'll need some kind of shelter (and 
>whatnot) to keep them.  
>

We have a pasture that I don't take care of like a lawn (I have enough lawn
thanks) but it needed tending. The horse is boarded out, and I didn't want
to go the brush-hog route. We elected to go with lambs. The above mentioned
problem of feeding hay in the winter is eliminated if one goes with lambs
rather than sheep. Availible as weanlings in the Spring, they keep the
pasture in control all summer and early fall. As soon as the grass gets
sparse enough that I would have to supplement, they make the transition
from pasture to freezer quite handily.

Pass the mint jelly!

===============================================================
David Prager					(W)206-487-5837
Motorola					(H)206-485-4397
Mobile Data Division
19807 Northcreek Parkway		
Bothell, WA 98011			prager@mdd.comm.mot.com


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!amulon!james Fri Jul 16 11:51:06 EDT 1993
Article: 5758 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: james@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (James White)
Subject: Re: lawn mowing (non-surburban style)
Sender: news@rchland.ibm.com
Message-ID: <1993Jul02.224626.31212@rchland.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1993 22:46:26 GMT
Reply-To: JamesWhite@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
References: <> <30JUN199313231245@donald.uoregon.edu> <C9I4DL.Ky8@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil> <1993Jul2.213448.2161@mdd.comm.mot.com>
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Keywords: baaaaaa, baaaaaa
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In article <1993Jul2.213448.2161@mdd.comm.mot.com>, prager@mdd.comm.mot.com (David Prager) writes:

|> We have a pasture that I don't take care of like a lawn (I have enough lawn
|> thanks) but it needed tending. The horse is boarded out, and I didn't want
|> to go the brush-hog route. We elected to go with lambs. The above mentioned
|> problem of feeding hay in the winter is eliminated if one goes with lambs
|> rather than sheep. Availible as weanlings in the Spring, they keep the
|> pasture in control all summer and early fall. As soon as the grass gets
|> sparse enough that I would have to supplement, they make the transition
|> from pasture to freezer quite handily.
|> 
|> Pass the mint jelly!

You better have darn good fences.  I have pastures that used to easily contain
horses that I now use for sheep.  I so this for just the same reasons stated
above.

I wish I could replace the four and five strand barb with woven, but I
can't afford that.  So I lowered the strands and tightened everything up.  Well,
they still found a place they just walk right through.  Barbed has no effect on
them.  Oh Well.



-- 

James White 


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ukma!netnews.louisville.edu!starbase.spd.louisville.edu!trheav01 Fri Jul 16 11:51:07 EDT 1993
Article: 5759 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ukma!netnews.louisville.edu!starbase.spd.louisville.edu!trheav01
From: trheav01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Troy R. Heavrin)
Subject: Re: Mole Trenching (Was: Co-generation)
Sender: news@netnews.louisville.edu (Netnews)
Message-ID: <trheav01.741465569@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 18:39:29 GMT
References: <1v85a4INN1rl@ctron-news.ctron.com> <C8HoqE.9BA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> 	<930615154546@cream.ftp.com> <C8tEo4.4q6@mv.mv.com> 	<4449@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> <FSF.93Jun21112842@fsf.mentorg.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: starbase.spd.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
Lines: 30

In <FSF.93Jun21112842@fsf.mentorg.com> fsf@fsf.mentorg.com (Rick Farnbach) writes:

>In article <4449@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:

>   You can get the equivalent with much less land area, without
>   running afoul of the law, and cheaper than trenching by drilling
>   two wells and running the pipes down them.  If I recall correctly,
>   2 200 foot wells is equivalent to something like 600 feet of trench.

>Another possibility about which I have heard is "mole trenching".  Supposedly,
>this was mentioned in the February issue of Popular Science a year or two ago.
>Proported advantages are lower cost, deeper pipes, and minimal damage to
>existing landscaping.  Mole trenching was supposed to finally make upgrading
>to ground source heat pumps affordable.

>Does anybody know what happened to this?

>The last time I talked to a contractor, he had never heard of it.  His upgrade
>wasn't affordable, either, incidentally.

On the subject of mole trenching, I have friend who is doing a masters thesis in mechanical engineering on building a mole for a gas company, it is a small diamter pierce (hole), about an 1". There are commercially available moles from companies like vermeer(the trencher people) but the moles won't accomplish what you really want. They are primarily for short runs of pipe, like under a road or from a meter to a house. For putting in 600' of circulating pipe in a yard it would be more trouble than it is wor


th. Going deep instead of wide probably would be a better idea.

T.R.Heavrin,Mechanical Engineering Dept.,Speed Scientific School,University of Louisville,Louisville,KY







From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!mvb.saic.com!ast.saic.com!asdi!gregor Fri Jul 16 11:51:08 EDT 1993
Article: 5762 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: gregor@asdi.saic.com (Gregg Hanna x6033)
Subject: Re: Compost acceleration
Message-ID: <1993Jul7.005013.3749@ast.saic.com>
Sender: news@ast.saic.com
Reply-To: gregor@kafka.saic.com
Organization: Science Applications International Corporation
References:  <1993Jul2.215152.2936@mdd.comm.mot.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 00:50:13 GMT
Lines: 49

In article <1993Jul2.215152.2936@mdd.comm.mot.com>, prager@mdd.comm.mot.com (David Prager) writes:
|> I mow roughly 1/2 acre of lawn at least weekly. Here in the Northwest, there
|> is enough rain that longer periods between cuttings makes for a lot of work.
|> I've been composting my clippings for years but would like to accelerate
|> the process; preferably without chemicals.
|> 
|> Each week the clippings go into a bin roughly 4x4x3. By the next week,
|> the volume is reduced to about 25% of the original. I then fork the now
|> reduced clippings into another bin of the same size. I call this the secondary
|> bin. By moving the clippings I aerate (sp) them and hopefully speed up
|> decompostion in the secondary.
|> 
|> By mid-summer, the secondary bin gets quite full; but I don't think
|> it's done yet. Does anyone have any great ideas for speeding up the process
|> of decomposing grass clippings?

Caveat:  I'm not an expert composter, I'm just passing on information I
have read.  Most of this information comes from the "Composting" entry
in Rodale's Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, which has lots of good
information.

Two things jump out at me.

1) Aeration.  If the only time you turn the pile is when you switch to
your secondary bin you will probably speed up decomposition by more
frequent turnings.  If it's not hot in the middle of the pile then
turn it, it's not cooking.  You can also stick rods into the pile and
pull them out to make air holes.  If the pile is soggy you may be
drowning the organisms, if this is the case see if you can allow
drainage or turn the pile to help the pile dry out.

2) Carbon/Nitrogen ratio.  Grass clippings are high in nitrogen, with
a carbon/nitrogen ratio of 19:1 according to Rodale's.  They say the
ideal ratio is around 25-30:1, so adding some high-carbon/low-nitrogen
materials would probably help alot.  Again according to Rodale's,
sawdust is great at 500:1 (they in fact make a specific example of
layering sawdust and fresh grass clippings to make a good pile), and
paper at 170:1.  Rules of thumb:

    high-nitrogen = green, moist
    high-carbon   = brown/yellow, dry

-gregor




                                         gregg hanna
                                         gregor@kafka.saic.com


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!onyx.indstate.edu!cml.indstate.edu!libhalc Fri Jul 16 11:51:09 EDT 1993
Article: 5763 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: libhalc@cml.indstate.edu (Hal Cheney)
Subject: Lehman's Non-Electric Catalog--Service
Message-ID: <libhalc.11.742055627@cml.indstate.edu>
Summary: Return policy appears good
Keywords: Lehman's, Catalog, Service, Quality
Lines: 29
Sender: news@onyx.indstate.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: 139.102.64.16
Organization: Indiana State University
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 14:33:47 GMT

Regards Lehman's:

	I had just placed an order to Lehman's (we used to live in
	Central Ohio and had visited the store once) when the recent
	posting asked about their service.

	The order arrived yesterday and contained an item other than
	the one I had ordered.  I had ordered their Farm/Yard Bell
	(#CYB) for $65.  The invoice that accompanied the item 
	identified the item shipped as the CYB.  However the inner
	box had a label "WB 1025."  The "W" refers to a Wall mount
	and the item shipped was a wall-mounting yard bell.

	The "Y" item mounts atop a pole.  On the "W" models, one
	pulls a rope attached to the clapper to swing it against
 	the bell.  On the "Y" model, you swing the bell itself.

	I called Lehman's and described the problem.  The Lehman
	person promptly said that would prepare a pick-up.  That
	is, they will have UPS come by and pick it up.  They only
	asked that I have it packed up and addressed to them.
	They are shipping the correct bell.

	If it works out as they say it will, I'd call that good
	service (though I wish they had checked what they were
	pulling from stock for shipping against the order and
	invoice :-> ).

	Hal Cheney, Martinsville, IL


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!usc!not-for-mail Fri Jul 16 11:51:10 EDT 1993
Article: 5764 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!usc!not-for-mail
From: rmontana@mizar.usc.edu (Robert Montana)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Dry toilets
Date: 7 Jul 1993 08:19:44 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 42
Sender: rmontana@mizar.usc.edu
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Message-ID: <21epig$htj@mizar.usc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Hello all,

This is my first post to misc.rural.  I don't even live close to a
rural area but I wish I did.  Since I can't right now I going to 
have to settle for living vicariously through relatives that live
in a small town not far from Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico.

The relatives are poor by our standards, but not the poorest.  They live in
a government subdivision, their lot being approximately 30' X 60'.
There is a very nice concrete curb and as for the street, it's hard
to tell because there is either a thick layer of dirt or it is simply
a dirt road.  (I don't speak Spanish, so I have to communicate through
my wife.  Perhaps that is a good thing because I would have a million
questions and the relatives would probably conclude I was just an
'Ugly American'.)

I have several questions to post here but as the subject line states,
I am interested in alternatives to the outhouse currently used by my
relatives.

A few more facts about their place.

	They have an electrical hook-up.
	They have a re-fillable propane tank.
	They have water delivered by truck, it is poured into
	  two plastic 55 gallon drums.  This water is not drinkable.
	  My cousin tells me they will use one drum a day although
	  delivery is sometimes inconsistent.	
	They have 'Sparkletts' water delivered for drinking and eating.

I read several years ago, I believe in The Whole Earth Catalog, about
a 'dry toilet' that was developed in Sweden(?).  That waste material
the comes out is usable as fertilizer, and that it is approved for use
in every county of the United States.  That seems pretty impressive since
the use of human waste is pretty much discouraged.

Does anyone have more information on this 'dry toilet' and better yet,
is anyone out there using this type of toilet?

Thanks!
Bob



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!onyx.indstate.edu!cml.indstate.edu!libhalc Fri Jul 16 11:51:11 EDT 1993
Article: 5765 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: libhalc@cml.indstate.edu (Hal Cheney)
Subject: Re: Dry toilets
Message-ID: <libhalc.12.742064266@cml.indstate.edu>
Lines: 27
Sender: news@onyx.indstate.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: 139.102.64.16
Organization: Indiana State University
References: <21epig$htj@mizar.usc.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 16:57:47 GMT

In article <21epig$htj@mizar.usc.edu> rmontana@mizar.usc.edu (
Robert Montana) writes:

>Subject: Dry toilets
>Date: 7 Jul 1993 08:19:44 -0700
>
>	They have an electrical hook-up.
>
>I read several years ago, I believe in The Whole Earth Catalog, about
>a 'dry toilet' that was developed in Sweden(?).  That waste material
>the comes out is usable as fertilizer, and that it is approved for use
>in every county of the United States.  That seems pretty impressive since
>the use of human waste is pretty much discouraged.
>
>Does anyone have more information on this 'dry toilet' and better yet,
>is anyone out there using this type of toilet?
>
>Thanks!
>Bob
>
My 1992 Lehman's catalog (pp92-93) lists two different models.  Each
model is in two versions--the "NE" (non-electric) waterless composting 
toilet for $1049 plus freight and its counterpart electric version, the 
"XL" for $1249 plus freight.  The other model is the "multrum" "WCE-NE"
($1099 plus freight) and the "WCM" (electric at $1249 plus freight).
If you missed the earlier post, Lehman's address is 4779 Kidron Road,
PO Box 41, Kidron, OH  44636.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!sun!vax.cns.muskingum.edu!bailey Fri Jul 16 11:51:12 EDT 1993
Article: 5766 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: bailey@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
Subject: Clay range verdict is in
Message-ID: <1993Jul7.164507.1@vax.cns.muskingum.edu>
Lines: 27
Sender: root@sun.cns.muskingum.edu (Operator)
Organization: Muskingum College
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 20:45:07 GMT

You may remember I posted this request for input:

     I have a question for the group.  Do any of you live near -
(I'm defining near as, within listening/hearing) of a gun club?  A 
not too close but still a neighbor opened a clay sporting range, it's
open air.  There isn't a family that lives within hearing distance that
isn't upset over this.  

     What I'm asking is this, is it tolerable for you to listen
to gun fire all day long?  Did you try to do anything to stop it?

The verdict is in, the range will remain open with restrictions.
He was found to be operating a 'public and private nuisance'.
The courts have restricted his hours to 10-5 MTWTh, and only
the first and third Saturdays.  (He was operating dawn
to dusk, 7 days a week.) He must install sound barriers
according to NRA and National Sporting Clays Association range
standards.  (Something he claims to have done, but he could
not produce any evidence that he had.)  Loads are not to 
exceed 1 1/8 oz of shot or are larger than 7 1/2. 
Any stations close (as defined in court docs) to adjacent
property must be closed.

Hopefully these hours will kill his business.

Lori Bailey
Posting from beautiful SE Ohio.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!portal.austin.ibm.com!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!news Fri Jul 16 11:51:13 EDT 1993
Article: 5767 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: gthome@bulldogs.austin.ibm.com (Gerry Thome)
Subject: Re: soil testing
Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id)
Message-ID: <C9tIM9.1Mzz@austin.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 23:30:09 GMT
Reply-To: gthome@dss1.austin.ibm.com
References: <93Jul4.195651edt.754@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>
Organization: IBM - Austin, TX, USA
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v0.18 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
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In <93Jul4.195651edt.754@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> enenkel@cs.toronto.edu ("Robert F. Enenkel") writes:
>I have some questions about soil testing.  I'm rather a neophyte at this,
>so if there are any professional pedologists out there, I hope they will
>bear with me.
>
>Because of my involvement with
>fish culture, I am used to testing for the concentrations of various ions
>in water. For instance, I have tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate,
>pH, buffering capacity, and hardness.  These tests seem like they should also
>have relevance to measurement of soil fertility.  The first 5 seem directly
>applicable, buffering capacity sounds like something I've heard called
>lime requirement, and hardness might serve as a measurement of calcium and
>magnesium.  But I have a problem.  I understand what it means to say that a
>sample of water has a certain pH, say, but what does it mean in relation to
>soil?
>
>Presumably it means the pH of the soil solution...or does it?  What if there
>is some acidic or basic solid in the soil.  Then might the pH not depend on
>how much is rains, as more of the solid would then dissolve?  Even if this
>situation does not occur (does it, usually?), you can't directly measure the
>pH of the soil solution directly, so what it seems you do is make an extract
>from the soil using distilled water, and measure that.  But then it depends
>on how much soil and how much distilled water you use, doesn't it?
>
>What I thought I'd do (before I realised how surprisingly complicated this all
>is), is test my soil and compare the results to published values which are
>optimal for various plants, and then try to influence these values to make my
>plants grow better.   However, such values as I've found seem to be given in
>lbs/acre. Now, if a soil sample contains x ppm of some nutrient (that is, some
>mass of nutrient per volume of soil), how can I convert that to lbs/acre,
>which is mass per area, whatever that means?
>
>Awaiting some (any) enlightenment...
>
Well, I don't know if I can enlighten, but I can comment.  Every year on our
farm we had every field tested for all sorts of things.  ph, nitrogen,
potassium, etc...  Depending upon the needs of the crop to be grown in
each field we added the proper minerals to each field.  I guess this
is what you're getting at.

Our county agricultural agent played a big role for us here, as he helped
take samples and got the samples analyzed.  You may want to contact your
local ag agency to see if any services are offered.

==============================================================================
| Gerry Thome              | t/l  678-2256   fax : t/l  678-8597 | Internal  |
| IBM-Austin               | (512)838-2256         (512)838-8597 | Zip 9132  |
| OS/2 DCE RPC Development | 11400 Burnet Rd, Austin, TX 78758   | MSU '89   |
| Disclaimer:              | United States of America            | How about |
| I don't speak for IBM in any way...                            | Them Dogs!|
==============================================================================




From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!spectra!gurley Fri Jul 16 11:51:15 EDT 1993
Article: 5768 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley)
Subject: Re: Dry toilets
Message-ID: <1993Jul8.041954.22753@spectra.com>
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
References: <21epig$htj@mizar.usc.edu> <libhalc.12.742064266@cml.indstate.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 04:19:54 GMT
Lines: 47

In article <libhalc.12.742064266@cml.indstate.edu> libhalc@cml.indstate.edu (Hal Cheney) writes:
>In article <21epig$htj@mizar.usc.edu> rmontana@mizar.usc.edu (
>Robert Montana) writes:
>
>>Subject: Dry toilets
>>Date: 7 Jul 1993 08:19:44 -0700
>>
>>	They have an electrical hook-up.
>>
>>I read several years ago, I believe in The Whole Earth Catalog, about
>>a 'dry toilet' that was developed in Sweden(?).  That waste material
>>the comes out is usable as fertilizer, and that it is approved for use
>>in every county of the United States.  That seems pretty impressive since
>>the use of human waste is pretty much discouraged.
>>
>>Does anyone have more information on this 'dry toilet' and better yet,
>>is anyone out there using this type of toilet?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Bob
>>
>My 1992 Lehman's catalog (pp92-93) lists two different models.  Each
>model is in two versions--the "NE" (non-electric) waterless composting 
>toilet for $1049 plus freight and its counterpart electric version, the 
>"XL" for $1249 plus freight.  The other model is the "multrum" "WCE-NE"
>($1099 plus freight) and the "WCM" (electric at $1249 plus freight).
>If you missed the earlier post, Lehman's address is 4779 Kidron Road,
>PO Box 41, Kidron, OH  44636.

I live in the mountains of Southern Oregon and I have one of those 'dry'
toilets.  It's a SUNMAR WCM that was probably bought from Real Goods in
Ukiah (I'm renting).  Since I'm also off grid, my model doesn't have a
heater or fan in it, which means all winter, I got nothing but accumulated
crap.  I ended up emptying it out into a barrel which sits out in the
orchard for some future use.  Now that warm weather's here, it's composting
nicely.  I put all my uncooked (non-fruit) vegie scraps along with a
handful of peat moss each day.  I also throw the occasional handful of dry
grass in.  My understanding is that the resulting compost is just fine for
non-contact crops (orchards, tomatoes, corn, etc.).  I guess someone
decided that potatoes, carrots, etc. are some sort of risk.

I should mention however, I'm going with a conventional septic system on
the house I'm building.  According to our county, a 'legitimate' composting
toilet system requires a 2/3 size leech field (mine has none), which means
it's probably no cheaper than a real septic (since the toilet is about the
same price as a septic tank).



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!usc!not-for-mail Fri Jul 16 11:51:16 EDT 1993
Article: 5769 of misc.rural
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From: rmontana@mizar.usc.edu (Robert Montana)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Dry Toilet
Date: 8 Jul 1993 10:32:55 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu


In article <1993Jul8.041954.22753@spectra.com> gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley) writes:
>In article <libhalc.12.742064266@cml.indstate.edu> libhalc@cml.indstate.edu (Hal Cheney) writes:
>>>
>>My 1992 Lehman's catalog (pp92-93) lists two different models.  Each
>>model is in two versions--the "NE" (non-electric) waterless composting 
>>toilet for $1049 plus freight and its counterpart electric version, the 
>>"XL" for $1249 plus freight.  The other model is the "multrum" "WCE-NE"
>
>I live in the mountains of Southern Oregon and I have one of those 'dry'
>toilets.  It's a SUNMAR WCM that was probably bought from Real Goods in
>Ukiah (I'm renting).  Since I'm also off grid, my model doesn't have a
>heater or fan in it, which means all winter, I got nothing but accumulated
>crap.  I ended up emptying it out into a barrel which sits out in the

Can you describe the SUNMAR WCM?  I'm trying to picture it's basic design
and what it's made of.  Since I will be setting up the toilet in Mexico
health and building codes don't seem to be an issue based on what is existing
there.  Can you give a little more description?  Volume it can handle?
I assume a heater would speed up de-composition.  What does the fan do,
ventilation, also speed up decomposition?  What is ventilation like in
the non-electric model?  The cost of the models offered by Lehman's is quite
high.  I would like to fabricate my own if possible, and for $1000+ it would 
seem to be possible.


>I should mention however, I'm going with a conventional septic system on
>the house I'm building.  According to our county, a 'legitimate' composting
>toilet system requires a 2/3 size leech field (mine has none), which means
>it's probably no cheaper than a real septic (since the toilet is about the
>same price as a septic tank).
>

What is a '2/3 size leech field'?  My understanding is that a leech field
is for the liquid portion.

Thanks!
Bob





From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!spectra!eghbalni Fri Jul 16 11:51:18 EDT 1993
Article: 5770 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.rural
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From: eghbalni@spectra.com (Hamid Eghbalnia)
Subject: Wood burning ovens
Message-ID: <1993Jul8.141059.25771@spectra.com>
Sender: eghbalni@spectra.com (Hamid Eghbalnia)
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 14:10:59 GMT
Lines: 10
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.consumers:46574 misc.rural:5770

	I am thinking about buying a wood burning stove and looking for
	information to educate myself so that I can make the right choices.
	Any info. is appreciated.  I am thinking about things like
	effeciency, cleaning ease, safety, capacity, ....

	Thanks...

 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 >>>        Hamid R. Eghbalnia	    >>>
 >>>>>>>    Reply to: nosc!spectra!eghbalni or eghbalni@spectra.com


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!news Fri Jul 16 11:51:19 EDT 1993
Article: 5771 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: Barry Thomas <thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Welding Equipment
Message-ID: <C9v8zM.1t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
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I need to do occasional repair/reinforcement work on my old farm
equipment.  I've been taking small work to the local welding shops, but
they are never open when things break and large parts (like loader
buckets) are a problem.  So, I'd like to get some welding equipment. 
Naturally, I have no experience and little money.  I would appreciate any
advice, suggestions, warnings, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Barry Thomas
thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu
Indiana University

Opinions expressed our my own and do not represent the University


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!utcsri!relay.cs.toronto.edu!smoke.cs.toronto.edu!cs.toronto.edu!enenkel Fri Jul 16 11:51:21 EDT 1993
Article: 5772 of misc.rural
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Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.rural
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu ("Robert F. Enenkel")
Subject: Re: Wood burning ovens
Message-ID: <93Jul9.095132edt.348@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
References: <1993Jul8.141059.25771@spectra.com>
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Date: 9 Jul 93 13:51:54 GMT
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Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu misc.consumers:46613 misc.rural:5772

eghbalni@spectra.com (Hamid Eghbalnia) writes:

>	I am thinking about buying a wood burning stove and looking for
>	information to educate myself so that I can make the right choices.
>	Any info. is appreciated.  I am thinking about things like
>	effeciency, cleaning ease, safety, capacity, ....

There's a nice book called "Heating with Coal" which I ordered from Harrowsmith.
It has pictures and info on many heating and cooking stoves.  Lots of them burn
wood too.  Robert Enenkel


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rutgers!utcsri!relay.cs.toronto.edu!smoke.cs.toronto.edu!cs.toronto.edu!enenkel Fri Jul 16 11:51:22 EDT 1993
Article: 5773 of misc.rural
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From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu ("Robert F. Enenkel")
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Welding Equipment
Message-ID: <93Jul9.095249edt.348@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>
Date: 9 Jul 93 13:53:13 GMT
References: <C9v8zM.1t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Lines: 10

Barry Thomas <thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

>I need to do occasional repair/reinforcement work on my old farm
>equipment.  I've been taking small work to the local welding shops, but
>they are never open when things break and large parts (like loader
>buckets) are a problem.  So, I'd like to get some welding equipment. 
>Naturally, I have no experience and little money.  I would appreciate any
>advice, suggestions, warnings, etc.

Please post replies.  This sounds intersting!  Robert Enenkel


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!vtserf.cc.vt.edu!thea.cc.vt.edu!Andrew.Cohill Fri Jul 16 11:51:23 EDT 1993
Article: 5774 of misc.rural
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From: Andrew Michael Cohill <Andrew.Cohill@vt.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Welding Equipment
Date: 9 Jul 1993 14:07:00 GMT
Organization: Fire in the Mountain
Lines: 38
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X-XXDate: Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:12:49 GMT

Lincoln and Miller both make what are called 'buzz boxes' which are low 
cost ($250-400) and heavy enough for what you want to do.  Their name 
derives from the hum that the AC transformers in them make.

A few tips:

No matter what anyone tells you, you need a welder that runs off 220 VAC, 
at about 30 amps, at a minimum, for the work you describe.  The little 110 
VAC boxes have very low duty cycles and do not have the heat to weld much 
more than 1/8" mild steel--useless for around the farm jobs.

There are lots of nice little wirefeed welders out now, at low prices, 
that the welding supply houses are going to flog mercilessly.  Be 
careful:  they like these because the cost of supplies is much higher, 
and you may be bringing them in for frequent repairs because of the 
mechanical complexity, compared to the ultra-simple buzz boxes, which 
never wear out and have no moving parts aside from a small fan.

Look at the motor-generator rigs;  they cost more, but as a bonus you get 
a very nice auxiliary generator and real portability.  Equipment broke 
down out the field?  No problem...throw the welder in the back of the 
pickup truck and drive it to the breakdown, along with portable AC to 
drive power tools like drills and grinders. A final bonus is that these 
babies provide DC current for welding, which is *much* nicer than AC.

Don't think you can get away for a few hundred bucks. The *minimum* you 
will need in addition to the welder is a good heavy duty portable grinder 
(i.e. *not Sears) for $125-150, an oxy-acetylene welding rig and tanks 
for $200-400, and a helmet, gloves, wire brush, chipping hammer, and an 
assortment of welding rod for $100-175.

If you have any money left over, you will find yourself wishing for a 
good bench grinder (6" to 8") at $125-$200, and a good, heavy 1/2" 
portable drill for $125-175.

Finally, don't buy any of this stuff from Sears, no matter how cheap it 
is.  You'll live to regret it, unless you drop dead of a heart attack the 
day after you buy everything.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!caen!batcomputer!lynx@msc.cornell.edu!lawrence Fri Jul 16 11:51:25 EDT 1993
Article: 5775 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: lawrence@msc.cornell.edu (Lawrence H. Smith)
Subject: Re: Welding Equipment
Message-ID: <1993Jul9.142217.16581@msc.cornell.edu>
Originator: lawrence@groo.msc.cornell.edu
Sender: news@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
References:  <C9v8zM.1t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:22:17 GMT
Lines: 29


In article <C9v8zM.1t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, Barry Thomas <thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>I need to do occasional repair/reinforcement work on my old farm
>equipment.  I've been taking small work to the local welding shops, but
>they are never open when things break and large parts (like loader
>buckets) are a problem.  So, I'd like to get some welding equipment. 
>Naturally, I have no experience and little money.  I would appreciate any
>advice, suggestions, warnings, etc.

Advice: Track down someone in your area offering welding classes; often
available through some sort of VoTech/Community College/Night School 
arrangement. Or perhaps one of your local welders. A little formal training
can be very useful. 

Arc welding books - Lincoln puts out a good one.

Gas welding/cutting books - Linde puts out a good one.

Gas is more portable, Arc is better for heavy welding (like loader buckets).
OTOH, an arc welder that can do heavy welding is expensive, and you may need
new electrical service to run the thing. Stop into the local welding supply 
and chat with them a bit.

As for getting your big things fixed now, most working welders have a truck
with a portable rig, and can come out to you.

-Lawrence Smith, MSC Computing Staff - Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY
 lawrence@msc.cornell.edu lawrence@crnlmsc2.bitnet (607)255-6064
-Cats, Coffee, Chocolate... Vices to live by. 


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!petel Fri Jul 16 11:51:26 EDT 1993
Article: 5776 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!petel
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Subject: Re: Welding Equipment
References: <C9v8zM.1t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <93Jul9.095249edt.348@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <1993Jul9.152432.29082@sequent.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: crg1.sequent.com
Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet )
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
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Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 15:24:32 GMT
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enenkel@cs.toronto.edu ("Robert F. Enenkel") writes:

>Barry Thomas <thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

>>I need to do occasional repair/reinforcement work on my old farm
>>equipment.  I've been taking small work to the local welding shops, but
>>they are never open when things break and large parts (like loader
>>buckets) are a problem.  So, I'd like to get some welding equipment. 
>>Naturally, I have no experience and little money.  I would appreciate any
>>advice, suggestions, warnings, etc.

>Please post replies.  This sounds intersting!  Robert Enenkel

There has been a limited discussion going on in rec.crafts.metalworking
about MIG welders. And I think there is now an addition to their FAQ.

What you have to first look at is the biggest piece of work (metal) you
think you will encounter and the next is the duty cycle. 

For me I have 24 hour access to a Millermatic 250 Wire feed MIG.
Bigger then I've ever need. Except the time I welded a cracked D4 blade.
Real nice, but I didn't win the lottery.

At home I have an old Airco 200 Amp 100% duty cycle stick
welder/generator, I normally have it hooked up as my emergency power
source but I've used it for welding.

Once you've used wire it is hard going back to stick. But because of
that you can find some real good buys on commercial stick welders.

-pete

          --------------------------------------------
          ----- Pete Lancashire petel@sequent.com ----
          -------- Kid in spirit. Big Brother --------
          ---               and now                ---
          - Adopt ? ME ? Am I going crazy ? HELP :) !-
          --------------------------------------------



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!csd.unb.ca!UPEI.CA!dharris Fri Jul 16 11:51:27 EDT 1993
Article: 5777 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: dharris@UPEI.CA (Donald Harris)
Subject: Raising Donkeys
Message-ID: <dharris.24.742235566@UPEI.CA>
Keywords: Donkeys, burros
Sender: news@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, CANADA
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:32:46 GMT
Lines: 14

Does anyone have any information on raising donkeys?  Donkeys, as you might 
know, are not indigenous to this area of Canada, but they are being used to 
a minor extent for protecting sheep from coyotes.  Wile E. Coyote and his 
relatives have recently immigrated to our fair island and are having more 
success catching sheep than roadrunners.  This has sent the local sheep 
growers on a search for coyote deterents and it seems that donkeys make good 
sheep guards. Watchdonkeys as it were. My neighbor and I are thinking about 
raising donkeys to supply this market and we would like to find out more 
about costs, sources etc. If anyone following this news group has any 
information or helpful hints they would be most welcome.

Thanks in advance
Don Harris
dharris@upei.ca


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!netnews.louisville.edu!starbase.spd.louisville.edu!trheav01 Fri Jul 16 11:51:31 EDT 1993
Article: 5778 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: trheav01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Troy R. Heavrin)
Subject: Re: FARM TRACTORS
Sender: news@netnews.louisville.edu (Netnews)
Message-ID: <trheav01.742172508@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 23:01:48 GMT
References: <1993Jul2.180227.216@westford.ccur.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: starbase.spd.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
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On the family farm we bought a Ford 3000 several years ago and repainted it and did some minor repairs to it and it has been a great tractor. The only thing different I would do is find a diesel instead of gas probably. It has a lot of heart for a tractor its size. $4k for a used tractor is not really unreasonable if it is in good shape. I believe a JD 2220 and an IH 644 are about the same size as a 3000. A 3600 is a latter model. I have found a 5 foot bushhog, a six foot grader blade, and a boom pole to b


e the most important pieces of equipment a person could have. I could probably find good use for a front end loader too, but I really haven't ever needed one.



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!twv Fri Jul 16 11:51:32 EDT 1993
Article: 5779 of misc.rural
From: twv@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Terry Von Gease)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 17:44:31 GMT
Subject: Old Fashioned Wringer Needed
Message-ID: <22310017@hpcss01.cup.hp.com>
Organization: the Lodi Home for the Bald
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Has anyone ever encountered, anywhere, in any catalog, in any store,
an old fashioned wringer of the type that used to be mounted on old 
washing machines.  In some dim memory I recall a style of wringer that
was meant to be attached to the side of most any tub.  

I'm not interested in some fragile antique, but a real live servicable
wringer.  Preferably new.  If anyone has ever encountered such a thing,
please let me know.  Post here, email, or whatever.

Terry
twv@hpcupng.cup.hp.com
(408)447-4941


From samba.oit.unc.edu!usenet Fri Jul 16 11:51:33 EDT 1993
Article: 5780 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!usenet
From: Bruce.Tindall@launchpad.unc.edu (Bruce Tindall)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.cows.moo.moo.moo,misc.rural
Subject: Rural Legend: dairymaids vs. dairylads
Date: 11 Jul 1993 20:15:44 GMT
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Rural Legend from friend of a friend of a friend who comes from Wisconsin
(land of a million cows):  Women milking cows get better results than men do.
True, False, or Unknown?  

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!tulane!rs1.tcs.tulane.edu!taylor Fri Jul 16 11:51:34 EDT 1993
Article: 5781 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!tulane!rs1.tcs.tulane.edu!taylor
From: taylor@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu (Leon Tqylor)
Subject: Review of "The Atlas of Arkansas" (long)
Message-ID: <1993Jul11.223912.18870@cs.tulane.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-18842]: rs1.tcs.tulane.edu
Followup-To: taylor@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu
Summary: This PC-based atlas is a pioneer;
         some thoughts on economic development in Arkansas
Keywords: Arkansas, atlas, geography, mapping, manufacturing
Sender: news@cs.tulane.edu
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1993 22:39:12 GMT
Lines: 96
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.books.reviews:846 misc.rural:5781


     The Atlas of Arkansas, by Richard M. Smith.  Fayetteville,
Ark. 72701: The University of Arkansas Press, 1989.  226 pp.,
color maps, index, bibliography.  ISBN 1-55728-048-7 (pbk). 
About $20 in pbk.

     For today's pioneers, a desktop computer is a Conestoga.  A
few years ago, Richard Smith, a geography professor at the
University of Arkansas, had the bright idea of fashioning a state
atlas on the microcomputer.  No need for the apocryphal room full
of wizened geographers, perched on stools and hunched like monks
over their drawing easels.  One could make an atlas on the PC
cheaply and update it easily.  
     The state solons kicked in some money; AutoDesk donated its
overpriced design package, AutoCAD; Rix SoftWorks gave away an
art package, EGA Paint 2005.  (You read it right -- EGA, as in
Enhanced Graphic Adapter.  This project was conceived in the
antediluvian Eighties.)  Smith printed the maps on an IRIS
Graphics 3024 Color Ink Jet Printer.
     The result: A book that appeals to mind, eye and pocketbook. 
With more than 100 figures sharply etched in color, "The Atlas of
Arkansas" sells for about half the price of a mediocre brunch in
New Orleans.  If Smith sticks to his schedule, an update will
appear next year.  I will be first in line.
     An atlas is a superior form of the detective novel.  Smith
notes, for instance, that one of every three Americans lives
within 500 miles of Arkansas.  Such a central location (muses the
armchair sleuth) should provide an ace in the hole for boosters
of the Land of Opportunity.  In this Highway Age, when
manufacturers produce in one plant and distribute from another,
market access helps determine where the plants locate.    
     That once was a sunny prospect for Arkansas.  Manufacturing
took off in the Forties, when production of weapons and aluminum
boomed.  Employment grew steadily -- quadrupled, in fact -- from
the Forties into the Seventies.  
     Today manufacturing provides one of every four nonfarm jobs
in Arkansas.  That emphasis is unusual in a national economy that
is shifting -- some would say it is sliding precipitously --
toward services.  In the US, manufacturing provides just one of
every six nonfarm jobs.
     Still, the view from the watchtower reveals storm warnings. 
By 1980, manufacturing was no longer adding jobs in Arkansas. 
The problem was national.  High energy prices of the 1970s,
courtesy of OPEC, discouraged factories from investing in
expansion.  So did the high interest rates of the early 1980s,
courtesy of the Fed.  A strong dollar chased US manufacturers out
of export markets.  
     What goes up must come down (a little):  Eventually energy
prices, interest rates and exchange rates did fall.  But by then,
US factories were either moving overseas or substituting machines
for labor.
     That tale is especially sobering for Arkansas, which relies
more than most states on manufacturing for jobs.  In 1990, the
unemployment rate was 6.9 percent in Arkansas, several notches
higher than the U.S. average of 5.5 percent.  Annual pay rose
just .8 of a percent in Arkansas that year, the smallest gain in
the U.S.  
     Evidently the state needs more and better-paying jobs.  It
probably can't create many jobs on its own, though.  Arkansas is
too poor to provide much of a market for new products: Its median
family income ($14,641 in 1979) virtually ties it with
Mississippi as the poorest state in the Union.  Perhaps its best
bet is to lure factories that produce for regional markets.
Indeed, almost two-thirds of the manufacturing firms in Arkansas
are owned out of state.  
     What must Arkansas do to attract factories?  Judging from
Smith's atlas, it should take a long hard look at its
transportation system.  It is one of 10 states that is unlucky
enough to have completed its alloted number of interstate miles
(just 541).  The southeast third has no commercial airport; the
third largest city, Pine Bluff, has no scheduled air service.  No
railroads -- and few US highways -- reach the Ozarks and
Ouachitas.  It is no surprise that the southeast and the
highlands have few manufacturing jobs.  But I digress.
     Smith's atlas ranges from grain sorghum to newspapers, from
presidential elections to state parks. You will learn here, if
you didn't already know (and I didn't), that Arkansas is the only
state that produces diamonds.  You can dig for them at the Crater
of Diamonds State Park.  One visitor found a 5.58-carat rock in
1984; it is high time for another lucky strike.  
     If (like me) you think that it's too hot to dig, then you
may prefer to make a capuccino, put up your feet -- and mine this
atlas for nuggets of gold.


Leon Taylor
Economics Department
Tulane University
New Orleans La 70118-5698
taylor@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu
(voice) 504-862-8340
(fax)   504-865-5869
 
     
     
                        


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!world!cosell Fri Jul 16 11:51:35 EDT 1993
Article: 5782 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!world!cosell
From: cosell@world.std.com (Bernie Cosell)
Subject: Re: Old Fashioned Wringer Needed
Message-ID: <It4dt*030@world.std.com>
Sender: cosell@world.std.com (Bernie Cosell)
Reply-To: cosell@world.std.com
Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers
References: <22310017@hpcss01.cup.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 02:08:22 GMT
X-Nnewsreader: Arn V1.03
Lines: 15

In article <22310017@hpcss01.cup.hp.com>, Terry Von Gease writes:

} Has anyone ever encountered, anywhere, in any catalog, in any store,
} an old fashioned wringer of the type that used to be mounted on old 
} washing machines.  In some dim memory I recall a style of wringer that
} was meant to be attached to the side of most any tub.  

Lehman's has 'em.  The have a "Good Hand Wringer" for $42.95 and a
"Best Hand Wringer" for $129.00.  You can call them at 216/857-5757
for more info.

   /Bernie\
-- 
Bernie Cosell                               cosell@world.std.com
Fantasy Farm Fibers, Pearisburg, VA         (703) 921-2358


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!mercury.hsi.com!mlfarm!auda!ron Fri Jul 16 11:51:36 EDT 1993
Article: 5783 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!mercury.hsi.com!mlfarm!auda!ron
From: ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence)
Subject: Re: Raising Donkeys
In-Reply-To: dharris@UPEI.CA's message of Fri, 9 Jul 1993 16:32:46 GMT
Message-ID: <C9y74F.B1n@mlfarm.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: auda
Organization: Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT
References: <dharris.24.742235566@UPEI.CA>
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:09:50 GMT
Lines: 35

Donald Harris writes:

   Does anyone have any information on raising donkeys?  

We have a guard donkey, Rosie, to protect our flock of Cotswolds.  We
got her after we lost a ewe to a coyote, and when she first came here,
four years ago, she was aggressive toward dogs and coyotes.  On sight
of an intruder, she would herd the sheep into a tight formation, then
turn to do battle with the coyote, attacking first with her front
hooves, then trying to bite, and finally throwing a karate kick with
her back hooves.  It was an impressive performance.

Unfortunately, Rosie has lost her edge.  We lost three lambs to coyote
this year, and on the occasions when we've seen her in `action,' she
now seems to behave more like the sheep than the `attack' donkey she
used to be.  We're not sure what has eroded her protective instincts,
but we no longer trust her to guard to flock.

She remains a lovely and amusing pet.  Rosie eats as much hay as five
big ewes, needs a farrier four times a year, annual shots, digs up
what we call `on deck circles' in the pasture (areas of dusty soil
where she rolls over), brays loudly when she thinks it is time for
attention, and generally charms just about anyone with her antics.
Samples: Rosie allows colored sheep to eat next to her at the feeder,
but chases away white sheep.  She insists on being present at every
lambing, brays loudly when the lambs are born, and sniffs them before
she accepts them into `her' flock.  Her head is twice as large as a
lamb; her gentleness with the lambs is astonishing.

Donkeys are extremely intelligent.  Maybe Rosie just figured out that
she would get fed anyway and that guarding the flock was too much work.
-- 

				Ronald Florence
				ron@mlfarm.com


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!psgrain!neon!wiskit!firefly!theus!john Fri Jul 16 11:51:37 EDT 1993
Article: 5784 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: john@theus.rain.com (John Theus)
Subject: Locating an Underground Pipe Leak
Message-ID: <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com>
Organization: The Theus Group; Sherwood, OR
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 07:43:55 GMT
Lines: 19


I have 1600 feet of 1.25 inch PVC buried about 2.5 to 3 feet down that runs
through a pasture. This pipe was put in about 8 years ago, tested then with
compress air and not used since.

I now have use for the pipe and when I tested it this time with compressed
air, it would not hold a charge. I do get a little bit of back pressure that
lasts for about 5 seconds when I remove the air supply, so I assume the leak
is some distance down the pipe. One possible source for this leak was a
neighbor who decided to push a couple of stumps out of my field one day when
he had a Cat at his place. I looked for damage after the fact, and didn't see
any, but you never know.

Any ideas about how to find the leak(s)?  My soil at this depth is red clay
that drains well.

Thanks for your help,

John Theus     TheUs Group     +1 503 625 7387     john@theus.rain.com


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!NewsWatcher!user Fri Jul 16 11:51:38 EDT 1993
Article: 5785 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!NewsWatcher!user
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Message-ID: <Stafford-120793081414@134.29.65.55>
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.edu (John Stafford)
Date: 12 Jul 93 08:19:47 -0600
Followup-To: misc.rural
Distribution: world
Organization: Minnesota State University @ Winona
Nntp-Posting-Host: 134.29.65.55
Lines: 17


	Time for a new furnace.  Currently I have a 130K(+) btu oil furnace
	which was adequate to heat the house.  The property owner has been
	told that fuel oil is better because "it yields more heat than
	the same dollar amount of propane."  I'm at a loss because I've
	seen no such metrics.

	Can anyone advise with information that is scientific enough
	to convince me and the landlord of the best solution?

	NOTE:  Expense of installation is _not_ a factor.  The owner
	is concerned about getting the best equipment because the
	home is a historical site.  He really does want the best.

====================================================
John Stafford   Minnesota State University @ Winona
                    All standard disclaimers apply.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsl!spf Fri Jul 16 11:51:40 EDT 1993
Article: 5786 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban,alt.cows.moo.moo.moo,misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!att-out!cbnewsl!spf
From: spf@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Steve Frysinger of Blue Feather Farm)
Subject: Re: Rural Legend: dairymaids vs. dairylads
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 14:04:30 GMT
Message-ID: <CA21rJ.BII@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
References: <21psdg$2cj@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Lines: 15
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu alt.folklore.urban:79999 alt.cows.moo.moo.moo:249 misc.rural:5786

>From article <21psdg$2cj@samba.oit.unc.edu>, by Bruce.Tindall@launchpad.unc.edu (Bruce Tindall):
> Rural Legend from friend of a friend of a friend who comes from Wisconsin
> (land of a million cows):  Women milking cows get better results than men do.
> True, False, or Unknown?  

Well, my grandma always got more out of the cows than grandpa, but
then he didn't like cows and they knew it.  In contrast, I always got
more from our goats than did my wife, even though she loves the goats as
much as I do.

Methinks there's no gender connection.

(Except that when I threatened to have a bumper sticker made up for
my truck, reading "Happiness is a warm udder", my wife said she
wouldn't ride with me.  Is that a gender connection?)


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!roberson Fri Jul 16 11:51:41 EDT 1993
Article: 5787 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.concert.net!taco!roberson
From: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
Subject: Re: Locating an Underground Pipe Leak
Message-ID: <1993Jul12.141628.23484@ncsu.edu>
Originator: roberson@water1.bae.ncsu.edu
Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
Reply-To: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
References:  <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 14:16:28 GMT
Lines: 28


In article <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com>, john@theus.rain.com (John Theus) writes:
> Newsgroups: misc.rural
> Path: taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!psgrain!neon!wiskit!firefly!theus!john
> From: john@theus.rain.com (John Theus)
> 
> I have 1600 feet of 1.25 inch PVC buried about 2.5 to 3 feet down that runs
> through a pasture. This pipe was put in about 8 years ago, tested then with
> compress air and not used since.
> 
> I now have use for the pipe and when I tested it this time with compressed
> air, it would not hold a charge. I do get a little bit of back pressure that
> lasts for about 5 seconds when I remove the air supply, so I assume the leak
> is some distance down the pipe. One possible source for this leak was a
> neighbor who decided to push a couple of stumps out of my field one day when
> he had a Cat at his place. I looked for damage after the fact, and didn't see
> any, but you never know.
> 
> Any ideas about how to find the leak(s)?  My soil at this depth is red clay
> that drains well.
> 
I don't know if ou can spare the water or if indeed this will work at 3 feet
down.  I have 1 inch PVC at 2 feet down and when a joint gave way last year,
it was a simple matter of following the pipe until I saw water coming up.
It seems to me that you would at least develop a damp patch of ground. (Makes
for easy diiging too.)

jim


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!petel Fri Jul 16 11:51:42 EDT 1993
Article: 5788 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!sequent!muncher.sequent.com!petel
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Subject: Re: Locating an Underground Pipe Leak
References: <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com>
Message-ID: <1993Jul12.152722.24022@sequent.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: crg1.sequent.com
Sender: usenet@sequent.com (usenet )
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 15:27:22 GMT
Lines: 40

john@theus.rain.com (John Theus) writes:

Hi John ...

>I have 1600 feet of 1.25 inch PVC buried about 2.5 to 3 feet down that runs
>through a pasture. This pipe was put in about 8 years ago, tested then with
>compress air and not used since.

>I now have use for the pipe and when I tested it this time with compressed
>air, it would not hold a charge. I do get a little bit of back pressure that
>lasts for about 5 seconds when I remove the air supply, so I assume the leak
>is some distance down the pipe. One possible source for this leak was a

Doesn't have to be so, the air pressure in the pipe will vent back no matter
where the leak is.

>neighbor who decided to push a couple of stumps out of my field one day when
>he had a Cat at his place. I looked for damage after the fact, and didn't see
>any, but you never know.

>Any ideas about how to find the leak(s)?  My soil at this depth is red clay
>that drains well.

I've used two methods, one was with an ultrasonic leak detector, this was on
a 60 acre strawberry farm. the other was with a marker dye. Each has it's
advantages the ultrasonic gives out pretty fast.. I actually found the leak
just from the leaking air by 'walking' the pipes. The marker dye only works
if the soil is quite loose. 

The pro's use a radioactive detector. They put a short life isotope in the 
supply and go out with a special gieger (sp?) counter/detector.

-pete

          --------------------------------------------
          ----- Pete Lancashire petel@sequent.com ----
          -------- Kid in spirit. Big Brother --------
          ---               and now                ---
          - Adopt ? ME ? Am I going crazy ? HELP :) !-
          --------------------------------------------


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!AChamove Fri Jul 16 11:51:43 EDT 1993
Article: 5789 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!cc-server4.massey.ac.nz!AChamove
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Locating an Underground Pipe Leak
Message-ID: <1993Jul13.013713.19703@massey.ac.nz>
From: AChamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove)
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 01:37:13 GMT
References: <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com> <1993Jul12.152722.24022@sequent.com>
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Lines: 8

I wonder if smoke would work; it is used to test pipework in the UK
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Chamove,				E-mail: AChamove@Massey.ac.NZ
Massey University Psychology Dept.	FAX:    (+64) 6350-5611
Palmerston North, New Zealand		Phone:  (+64) 6356-9099 Ex.7924
   					Time Zone:  GMT + 12.00



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!dduff Fri Jul 16 11:51:44 EDT 1993
Article: 5790 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!dduff
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Date: 13 Jul 1993 02:18:13 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <21t615$mqd@hp-col.col.hp.com>
References: <Stafford-120793081414@134.29.65.55>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

>From what I've been told by my plumbing heating guy, oil does give more
heat per dollar, at todays prices, but there are tradeoffs. You don't have to install an oil tank if you go with propane. Oil tanks must be indoors in a cold
climate, propane is usually outdoors. Propane burns cleaner, with less acid
emmissions, allowing a less expensive exhaust stack, which lasts longer. And
the furnace or boiler will last longer for the same reason, with less maintenance. Propane is easier on the environment too. I weighed the pros and cons and
went with propane, and have not regretted it.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!nevada.edu!nye.nscee.edu!rpji Fri Jul 16 11:51:45 EDT 1993
Article: 5791 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!uunet!nevada.edu!nye.nscee.edu!rpji
From: rpji@nye.nscee.edu (Rick Jenks)
Subject: Re: soil testing
Message-ID: <1993Jul13.022556.28155@nevada.edu>
Sender: news@nevada.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: nye.nscee.edu
Organization: National Supercomputer Center for Energy and the Environment
References: <93Jul4.195651edt.754@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> <C9tIM9.1Mzz@austin.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 02:25:56 GMT
Lines: 17





>What I thought I'd do (before I realised how surprisingly complicated this all
>is), is test my soil and compare the results to published values which are
>optimal for various plants, and then try to influence these values to make my
>plants grow better.   However, such values as I've found seem to be given in
>lbs/acre. Now, if a soil sample contains x ppm of some nutrient (that is, some
>mass of nutrient per volume of soil), how can I convert that to lbs/acre,
>which is mass per area, whatever that means?
>                             
                  
Robert,  I would suspect that the lbs/acre values tht you have read are 
consumption.  In other words Alfalfa consumes 40 lbs/acre of sulfur each
year (my fuzzy recollection, but don't hold me to it..).  So, you need to
maintain that amount in the soil. 


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!paladin.american.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!clark!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!nsmca Fri Jul 16 11:51:47 EDT 1993
Article: 5792 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu
Subject: Rural Alaska/Russia
Message-ID: <1993Jul12.211540.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Lines: 27
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 05:15:40 GMT

Hello all, does Nome, Alaska count as rural?? Population around 3500-4000..

Just saying hi.. We got rid of the honeybuckets a year or so ago..

(honey bucket = basically a indoor outhouse with a bucket that cab be removed
and dumped) 

Soem of the local villages do have running water, and electicity, but not all..
Or atleast not all the houses are wired and plumbed for it.. And Sewege, 
well most still use honey buckets..

My mom and step dad are working on projects to bring agriculture to select
villages farther south of here. The local people go out and pick berries around
fall time, and it would be a great thing for them to be able to grow the
berried for harvest.. And make jams and jellis and such for sale..
One way to keep kids from getting board and doing mischief..

Eastern Siberia is a fun place I have heard.. Soem of my friends have visited,
they are really in trouble or so it sounds, but.. we shall see..

===
Ghost Wheel - nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Member of the Nome Volunteer Ambulance Service, 
serving Nome, Norton Sound Region, NW Alaska and at times Eastern Siberia
(Russia)..




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Article: 5793 of misc.rural
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From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: re: Rural Alaska/Russia
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 22:30:07 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <MS-C.742541407.1103527590.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To: nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Jul12.211540.1@aurora.alaska.edu> 

Howdy -

     I visited Barrow two weeks ago.  Normally, I live on Bainbridge Island,
WA, just across Puget Sound from Seattle.  Unfortunately, our little 10 x 5
mile island now has 15,000 people in it, so the rural quality of life is
rapidly vanishing.

     I thought that Barrow was quite interesting.  I missed Nalukataq by two
days, though, *sigh* (I'm a whale eater, having acquired the habit in Japan).
They've pretty much gotten rid of the honey buckets in Barrow too; they have
running water, electricity, sewage, natural gas, and a better cable TV system
than I have at home.

     But, Barrow did treat us to snow flurries on the first day of summer.

     Does Nome have permafrost and tundra, or is it too far south for that?

-- Mark --



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!uw-beaver!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!nsmca Fri Jul 16 11:51:49 EDT 1993
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From: nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Message-ID: <1993Jul12.212908.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
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Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
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References: <Stafford-120793081414@134.29.65.55> <21t615$mqd@hp-col.col.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 05:29:08 GMT

In article <21t615$mqd@hp-col.col.hp.com>, dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff) writes:
> From what I've been told by my plumbing heating guy, oil does give more
> heat per dollar, at todays prices, but there are tradeoffs. You don't have to install an oil tank if you go with propane. Oil tanks must be indoors in a cold
> climate, propane is usually outdoors. Propane burns cleaner, with less acid
> emmissions, allowing a less expensive exhaust stack, which lasts longer. And
> the furnace or boiler will last longer for the same reason, with less maintenance. Propane is easier on the environment too. I weighed the pros and cons and
> went with propane, and have not regretted it.

==
Hum, oil has to be inside? wow Ill have to tell all my friends who have theres
outside.. I live in Nome, AK and I have seen a few outside.. Must be insulated
or some such..

Historical: Go with oil, it maintains that aura.. environment and space, well
propane is good liek he says.. 

Besides liek up here, the oil can get contaminated easier than propane..

We use alot of gas (auto and such) up here and the 55 gal drums just don't work
well to long, before moisture gets in.. Many have fuel filtered hand pumps...

It can get to 80+ in the sumemr to -60 or so in the winter.. (Fahrenheit that
is)..

===
Ghost Wheel - nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!uw-beaver!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!nsmca Fri Jul 16 11:51:50 EDT 1993
Article: 5795 of misc.rural
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From: nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu
Subject: Recollectiong of Rural Past.
Message-ID: <1993Jul12.213640.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Lines: 22
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 05:36:40 GMT

Recycleing is a great way to keep cost down. Up here the cost for things can
get expensive.. Gas $2.00/gallon and such..

Question is why don't people do more of it. not sure..
                                     
I know I don't recycle. But on my moms "farm" they do (garden actually, but it
grows more than flowers, but everything from Leeks to Kiwi..

They get to the point when they can know that someone down the block is using
chemical pesticides or de-weeders (can't remember the name right now)..

I know one thing I many times appreciate my rural roots (visiting my grand
father farm and more), it gives me a appareciation for the little things we
have. Running water, toilets, electricity, and such.. 

Also spending a bit of time in a scout infantry unit, and freezing your buns
off, can help to..

===
Ghost Wheel - nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu




From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!nosc!spectra!gurley Fri Jul 16 11:51:52 EDT 1993
Article: 5796 of misc.rural
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From: gurley@spectra.com (Jim Gurley)
Subject: Re: Locating an Underground Pipe Leak
Message-ID: <1993Jul13.042456.3878@spectra.com>
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
References: <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 04:24:56 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <CA1K5B.3ML@theus.rain.com> john@theus.rain.com (John Theus) writes:
>
>I have 1600 feet of 1.25 inch PVC buried about 2.5 to 3 feet down that runs
>through a pasture. This pipe was put in about 8 years ago, tested then with
>compress air and not used since.
>
>I now have use for the pipe and when I tested it this time with compressed
>air, it would not hold a charge. I do get a little bit of back pressure that
>lasts for about 5 seconds when I remove the air supply, so I assume the leak
>is some distance down the pipe. One possible source for this leak was a
>neighbor who decided to push a couple of stumps out of my field one day when
>he had a Cat at his place. I looked for damage after the fact, and didn't see
>any, but you never know.
>
>Any ideas about how to find the leak(s)?  My soil at this depth is red clay
>that drains well.
>
>Thanks for your help,
>
>John Theus     TheUs Group     +1 503 625 7387     john@theus.rain.com

I had the same problem with a 2" PVC pipe that ran the length of my
driveway and I simple turned it on and waited for a wet spot.  It was three
feet under the driveway, and the shale mislead me into digging a bigger
hole than I would have liked, but it was easy to 'track' the leak once I
got close.

I don't think compressed air and charge time tells you much about the
location of the leak, just the SIZE of the leak.


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From: richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson)
Subject: Going Rural
Sender: news@spk.hp.com
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 14:22:25 GMT
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  I'm going rural!!!
Just closed on ten acres in the Idaho Panhandle (northern Idaho).
My wife and I went and splashed some champane on it yesterday.
It's woodsy, with a small meadow, lots of blue berries and a view!
I'm flying high!!!!

Darrell the flying Barrel


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!butch!rapnet!news Fri Jul 16 11:51:54 EDT 1993
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From: ln21531@sander.lockheed.com (Jan Marshall)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <ln21531.110@sander.lockheed.com>
Sender: news@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com (USENET News System)
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
References: <CA3x9E.730@spk.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 15:59:32 GMT
Lines: 15

In article <CA3x9E.730@spk.hp.com> richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson) writes:


>  I'm going rural!!!
>Just closed on ten acres in the Idaho Panhandle (northern Idaho).
>My wife and I went and splashed some champane on it yesterday.
>It's woodsy, with a small meadow, lots of blue berries and a view!
>I'm flying high!!!!

>Darrell the flying Barrel

Congratulations!  Are either of you from a rural upbringing?  What are your 
plans for your new found privacy?  (Boy am I nosy!)

Jan


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!news Fri Jul 16 11:51:55 EDT 1993
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From: Barry Thomas <thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Welding summary
Message-ID: <CA49s4.G5E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 18:52:52 GMT
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I asked for some advice on welding equipment and received some great
replies.  I thought I'd share a breif summary of my e-mail.

1.  Take a class.  This was the number one suggestion.   (The vocational
school is sending me the fall schedule.)  The Lincoln company also offers
a set of inexpensive how-to books.

2.  Invest in a good arc welder.  A 220vac model is a must - don't
consider the small 110vac models.   An interesting alternative is a motor
driven welder/generator outfit but not sure I can afford a combined unit
right now.

3.  If I consider a gas outfit (and there are good uses - cutting
burning,etc.), safety is a concern.  

4.  I should plan on buying protective articles (shield, gloves, etc.). 
I should look for used items at farm sales.  

5.  Finally, I was advised not to set myself on fire. :-) 


Thanks for the help!

Barry Thomas
thomasb@ucs.indiana.edu

Words and deeds are my own and not those of ole IU.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!darwin.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!msus1.msus.edu!NewsWatcher!user Fri Jul 16 11:51:56 EDT 1993
Article: 5801 of misc.rural
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Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <Stafford-130793150617@134.29.65.55>
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.edu (John Stafford)
Date: 13 Jul 93 15:06:10 -0600
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In article <CA3x9E.730@spk.hp.com>, richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H.
Richardson) wrote:
> 
> 
>   I'm going rural!!!
> Just closed on ten acres in the Idaho Panhandle (northern Idaho).
> My wife and I went and splashed some champane on it yesterday.
> It's woodsy, with a small meadow, lots of blue berries and a view!
> I'm flying high!!!!

	Good for you!  (Now, check yourself for ticks.)

====================================================
John Stafford   Minnesota State University @ Winona
                    All standard disclaimers apply.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!mixcom.com!aayyaa Fri Jul 16 11:51:57 EDT 1993
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From: aayyaa@mixcom.mixcom.com (Lloyd Schultz)
Subject: Heat:  Oil or Propane?   
Message-ID: <1993Jul13.033905.27003@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI (414) 241-5469
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 03:39:05 GMT
Lines: 25


ST>        Time for a new furnace.  Currently I have a 130K(+) btu oil furnace
ST>        which was adequate to heat the house.  The property owner has been
ST>        told that fuel oil is better because "it yields more heat than
ST>        the same dollar amount of propane."  I'm at a loss because I've
ST>        seen no such metrics.
It seems that the market would dictate prices and I am not sure ifthe
two fuel types have parallel pricing.  A furnace
of a given btu rating and a specific efficiency rating is going to pump
out the same amount of heat no matter what kind of fuel it uses. (?)

We heat our old farm house with a pulse furnace fueled with propane.
The price over the past six years has ranged from 49-cents to
89-cents/gallon.   It seems that oil has been consistantly higher.

Thinking of supplementing with a corn burner next year.  They too are so
efficient that they require no chimney, just something similar to a
dryer vent.

Lloyd
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the @#$&*~ thing!
                                                                                                                                
-- 
Lloyd.Schultz@mixcom.com


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From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Date: 14 Jul 1993 07:38:49 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
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References: <1993Jul12.212908.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
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Fuel oil gels in sub-zero temperatures.


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From: csb@jax.org (Carolyn Blake)
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Message-ID: <1993Jul14.120049.7652@jax.org>
Organization: The Jackson Laboratory
References: <Stafford-120793081414@134.29.65.55> <21t615$mqd@hp-col.col.hp.com> <1993Jul12.212908.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 12:00:49 GMT
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In article <1993Jul12.212908.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes:
>==
>Hum, oil has to be inside? wow Ill have to tell all my friends who have theres
>outside.. I live in Nome, AK and I have seen a few outside.. Must be insulated
>or some such..

They contain kerosene... doesn't gel in the cold as does #2 oil...


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Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Message-ID: <Stafford-140793101543@134.29.65.55>
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.edu (John Stafford)
Date: 14 Jul 93 10:18:12 -0600
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In article <1993Jul13.033905.27003@mixcom.mixcom.com>,
aayyaa@mixcom.mixcom.com (Lloyd Schultz) wrote:
> 
> Thinking of supplementing with a corn burner next year.  They too are so
> efficient that they require no chimney, just something similar to a
> dryer vent.

	My experience with the corn burners is that they must be large
	to be effective in a home. The models I've seen are simply
	inadequate for general home heating.  Yes, the single virtue
	seems to be the 'vent' rather than chimney.

====================================================
John Stafford   Minnesota State University @ Winona
                    All standard disclaimers apply.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpspkla!richards Fri Jul 16 11:52:01 EDT 1993
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From: richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson)
Subject: responses
Sender: news@spk.hp.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 16:42:10 GMT
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to DonB:

  Keytronix is in Cheney, but there is a Lenoard and Helen Byrne in
Spokane at:

   N1302 Skipworth Ct.
   509-928-8561


To John Schultheiss:

  I'm fortunate to be working for HP in Spokane, washington. It is
actually right on the Idaho border. This area has a hard job market
to crack, but not impossible. There are medium to high tech companies
up here that employ software engineers, but not a lot, and not many
new job openings. We are constantly getting transplant companies moving
in from the coastal cities, particularly cal.
  If you really want to move up here, you might try a head hunter in
this area and plan on a few years trying. I was working for Boeing and
decided to go to College (grad school) in eastern Wa. while I looked for
a job. Several jobs opened up by the time 3 years had gone by but I
got only two offers, and this was the only interesting one. I'm an 
electrical engineer and was single at the time.
  Every one has a different way. I wish you luck!


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!uuneo!sugar!claird Fri Jul 16 11:52:03 EDT 1993
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From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,alt.agriculture.misc,soc.culture.new-zealand,misc.rural
Subject: Re: Farming on life-support! (was: Will free trade take away jobs?) (LONG)
Message-ID: <CA5sE8.D2G@sugar.NeoSoft.COM>
Date: 14 Jul 93 14:32:31 GMT
References: <21tbl5INN4vq@ymir.cs.umass.edu> <CA3tA7.Gnu@sugar.neosoft.com> <1993Jul14.095611.13842@gps.leeds.ac.uk>
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In article <1993Jul14.095611.13842@gps.leeds.ac.uk> malcolm@geog.leeds.ac.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
			.
			.
			.
>In a competative market with many companys, with or without subsidies, net
>profits, allowing for the opertunity cost of capital investment (i.e. 
>interest rates) profits always tend to zero. In the case of agriculture the
>main mechanism by which subsidies are neutralised appears to be in increased
>land prices (and thus increased capital opertunity cost). Should subsidies be
			.
			.
			.
>There would, however, be structural changes that I regard as very desirable.
>The cost of land would now be lower relative to buildings and plant (in which
>area, unlike in land, there are potentially infinite suppliers). The economics
>of farming would then favour extensivication and low input farming, particularly
>organic and biodynamic techniques. These techniques are IMHO, only less
>profitable now because of the distortions caused by subsidies. This means
>decreased polution and soil degradation and, generally, and improved quality
>of life for livestock. Of course there is also and enormous saving in public
>money.
>
>IMHO what governements should do is to phase out susidies as we know them today
>and compensate landowners for the resulting decrease in land values. After all
>the inflated land values today are the fault of government. There is, of course,
>the separate issue of agricultural incomes which have always been depressingly
>low. However I do not belive that the forms of subsidy tried to date have had
>any effect on the incomes of agricultural workers, even in the medium term.
>
>Malcolm McMahon

You are entirely accurate in your analysis, of course.
I'll add a few figures from this side of the Atlantic
to bolster your points:
1.  inputs are already down.  There has been
    remarkable technical and managerial pro-
    gress at improving *material* productivity.
    Minimum-tillage methods has simply exploded
    in the US, and chemical amendments have
    become far, far more precise than they were
    even a few years ago.  There's a long way
    to go, but, as

	Zulauf, Carl R., and Luther G. Tweeten
	1993	"Reordering the mission of
		agricultural research at land-
		grant universities", Choices,
		Second Quarter 1993, pages 31-
		33

    for example, express it, "Productivity
    gains since 1950 alone accounted for 57
    percent of farm output in 1990, while
    conventional inputs accounted for only
    43 percent."
2.  The prospects for reversing soil degra-
    dation are even brighter under the
    economic regime you describe than you
    indicate above.  My reasons for so as-
    serting are mildly technical, and best
    discussed later.
3.  Ag incomes aren't low.  In the US, ag
    subsidies have declined over the last
    decade, but income of US farm families
    has been *higher* than that of those
    off the farm during the '90s.  This ag-
    gregate statistic certainly doesn't
    answer all questions, but it dramatizes
    how far we are from, say, 1950, when
    per capita disposable income of the
    farm population was 53% of the cor-
    responding figure for the US nonfarm
    population.
4.  One of the challenges to managing a
    transition of the sort you describe is
    for policy-makers to realize that there
    is supposed to be change.  The banking
    "crisis" in the US provides a useful
    comparison.  Crudely, since 1980, there
    has been excess capacity in traditional
    banking services.  Government bail-outs
    deliberately seek to "prop-up" failed
    banks, and give them (or, more precisely,
    their new owners) various competitive
    advantages.  Consequence:  the next-weak-
    est players in each market fail.  This
    process can continue indefinitely.
    Younger agriculturalists in the US have
    begun to understand that low land prices
    can *benefit* the health of the industry.
    The next step will be for government of-
    ficials to comprehend that a contracting
    physical plant in agriculture is *desir-
    able*--among other reasons, for the
    environmental impacts you have in
    mind.

I've adjusted follow-ups slightly.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!nsmca Fri Jul 16 11:52:07 EDT 1993
Article: 5808 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Message-ID: <1993Jul14.133540.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Lines: 16
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
References: <1993Jul12.212908.1@aurora.alaska.edu> <220d69$lko@hp-col.col.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 21:35:40 GMT

In article <220d69$lko@hp-col.col.hp.com>, dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff) writes:
> Fuel oil gels in sub-zero temperatures.


Then I wonder what they are burning. I thought it was fuel oil. But you never
know.. Any other possibles?? I don't think its Propane.. Seen a truck pul up
and put a nozzle into one or two of them in the past. I know soem use  gasoline
but thats expensive at $2.00 a gallon or so.. 

I still think its Feul Oil, either a arctic mixture or a insulated tank..

===
Ghost Wheel - nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu

Home in Nome.



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!raven.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!nsmca Fri Jul 16 11:52:08 EDT 1993
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From: nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu
Subject: Ideas for rural living.
Message-ID: <1993Jul14.134133.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Lines: 19
Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 21:41:33 GMT

Im not sure if this is the right area, or maybe it is for this..

To save on money and such. Have two tanks, one full of gasoline, the other of
diesel, start the boat/engine on the gasolien, one you get the engine hot
enough, switch to diesel. It works.. A freidn or two does it.. not sure what
they use for plugs/selenoid and such, and also maintenance..

Does anyoen know a good source for Hemp Oil? Bulk? just curious..
No Im not going to get stoned on hemp/pot.. 
A friend once told me, that diesel engines were originally designed to burn
hemp oil and not diesel..

Anyone have any rural tricks for life? then post them here?

Im tired so Im off to sleep or ... other less technical endevours..

===
Ghost Wheel - nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!gems.vcu.edu!agnew Fri Jul 16 11:52:09 EDT 1993
Article: 5810 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!gems.vcu.edu!agnew
From: agnew@gems.vcu.edu (Brainwave Surfer)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Ideas for rural living.
Message-ID: <1993Jul15.091941.623@gems.vcu.edu>
Date: 15 Jul 93 09:19:41 -0400
References: <1993Jul14.134133.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Organization: Medical College of Virginia
Lines: 37

In article <1993Jul14.134133.1@aurora.alaska.edu>, nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes:
> Im not sure if this is the right area, or maybe it is for this..
> 
> To save on money and such. Have two tanks, one full of gasoline, the other of
> diesel, start the boat/engine on the gasolien, one you get the engine hot
> enough, switch to diesel. It works.. A freidn or two does it.. not sure what
> they use for plugs/selenoid and such, and also maintenance..
> 
> Does anyoen know a good source for Hemp Oil? Bulk? just curious..
> No Im not going to get stoned on hemp/pot.. 
> A friend once told me, that diesel engines were originally designed to burn
> hemp oil and not diesel..
> 
> Anyone have any rural tricks for life? then post them here?
> 
> Im tired so Im off to sleep or ... other less technical endevours..
> 
> ===
> Ghost Wheel - nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
> 

I have the facts on this one!!!!  The Diesel engines ware invented
in Germany just before WW I by Rudolf Diesel.  They were originally
designed to burn finely powered coal, pumped in by a compressed air
stream.  The coal was given up as it was too high octane, and the engines
kept exploding.  The Diesel was the key to the success of the u-boats
in WWI, as the other subs all had either gas engines or steam.
Mr. Diesel attemped to flee to England just before the war, and got
on the boat.  He never got off.  People suppose the equivalent of
Gestapo back then got him to feed the sharks..


-- 
         /^^^\   \ /   Jim Agnew         | AGNEW@RUBY.VCU.EDU  (Internet)
        /      >  ||   Neurosurgery,     | AGNEW@VCUVAX        (Bitnet)
   /\_/     '   \  /   MCV-VCU           | This disc will self destruct in
 /________________>    Richmond, VA, USA | five seconds.  Good luck, Jim..."


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsl!spf Fri Jul 16 11:52:10 EDT 1993
Article: 5811 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsl!spf
From: spf@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Steve Frysinger of Blue Feather Farm)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?
Message-ID: <CA7Lro.CFt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
Date: 15 Jul 93 14:04:34 GMT
References: <1993Jul14.133540.1@aurora.alaska.edu>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 12

>From article <1993Jul14.133540.1@aurora.alaska.edu>, by nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu:
> In article <220d69$lko@hp-col.col.hp.com>, dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff) writes:
>> Fuel oil gels in sub-zero temperatures.
> 
> Then I wonder what they are burning. I thought it was fuel oil. But you never
> know.. Any other possibles?? I don't think its Propane.. Seen a truck pul up

Perhaps it's cut with kerosene.  That's used here in diesel fuel in
winter (though I don't know if it's used in home heating oil, which is
otherwise the same as diesel fuel except without the excise tax).

Steve


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpspkla!richards Fri Jul 16 11:52:11 EDT 1993
Article: 5812 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Sender: news@spk.hp.com
Message-ID: <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 17:43:58 GMT
References: <ln21531.110@sander.lockheed.com>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Lines: 25

Jan Marshall (ln21531@sander.lockheed.com) wrote:
: In article <CA3x9E.730@spk.hp.com> richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson) writes:
: 
: 
: >  I'm going rural!!!
: >Just closed on ten acres in the Idaho Panhandle (northern Idaho).
: >My wife and I went and splashed some champane on it yesterday.
: >It's woodsy, with a small meadow, lots of blue berries and a view!
: >I'm flying high!!!!
: 
: >Darrell the flying Barrel
: 
: Congratulations!  Are either of you from a rural upbringing?  What are your 
: plans for your new found privacy?  (Boy am I nosy!)
: 
: Jan

  We aren't from a rural upbringing! Our plans are a little vague, but
include putting in a cross country skiing track around the outside.
We intend to plant fruit and nut trees, as well as a large garden. I want
to encourage the deer and elk to remain so I'll probably put out a 
lick and hay in the winter. Cathy wants to plant grapes and berries to
try various wine making ideas. We also want to keep the woodsy look, and
I want to plant some maples & oaks. Oh yes, how could I forget the
flower and herb gardens.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!onyx.indstate.edu!cml.indstate.edu!libhalc Fri Jul 16 11:52:13 EDT 1993
Article: 5813 of misc.rural
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From: libhalc@cml.indstate.edu (Hal Cheney)
Subject: Re: Ideas for rural living.
Message-ID: <libhalc.30.742768636@cml.indstate.edu>
Lines: 15
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Nntp-Posting-Host: 139.102.64.16
Organization: Indiana State University
References: <1993Jul14.134133.1@aurora.alaska.edu> <1993Jul15.091941.623@gems.vcu.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 20:37:16 GMT

In article <1993Jul15.091941.623@gems.vcu.edu> agnew@gems.vcu.edu 
(Brainwave Surfer) writes:
>...The Diesel engines ware invented
>in Germany just before WW I by Rudolf Diesel.  
>...

:-)
At age 64 I've reached the stage where "collapsing" past decades into
"just" a few years has started to bother me.  Diesel was issued his
patent for his engine in 1892 and built his first successful one in
1897.  Twenty-four years span the time between his patent and the
beginning of WWI.  Our historical perspective is still close enough
to these events, I hope, for 1892 not to be _just_ before WWI.
:-)
Hal Cheney


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!npirs!tmiller Fri Jul 16 11:52:14 EDT 1993
Article: 5814 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!npirs!tmiller
From: tmiller@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Terry Miller)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <1993Jul15.204133.28879@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University
References: <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 20:41:33 GMT
Lines: 44

>From article <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>, by richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson):
> Jan Marshall (ln21531@sander.lockheed.com) wrote:
> : In article <CA3x9E.730@spk.hp.com> richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson) writes:
> : 
> : 
> : >  I'm going rural!!!
> : >Just closed on ten acres in the Idaho Panhandle (northern Idaho).
> : >My wife and I went and splashed some champane on it yesterday.
> : >It's woodsy, with a small meadow, lots of blue berries and a view!
> : >I'm flying high!!!!
> : 
> : >Darrell the flying Barrel
> : 
> : Congratulations!  Are either of you from a rural upbringing?  What are your 
> : plans for your new found privacy?  (Boy am I nosy!)
> : 
> : Jan
> 
>   We aren't from a rural upbringing! Our plans are a little vague, but
> include putting in a cross country skiing track around the outside.
> We intend to plant fruit and nut trees, as well as a large garden. I want
> to encourage the deer and elk to remain so I'll probably put out a 
> lick and hay in the winter. Cathy wants to plant grapes and berries to
> try various wine making ideas. We also want to keep the woodsy look, and
> I want to plant some maples & oaks. Oh yes, how could I forget the
> flower and herb gardens.



A little research may be in order - where I live, deer and elk just love
grapes, fruit trees, and most garden plants and produce.















From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!kaufman Fri Jul 16 11:52:15 EDT 1993
Article: 5815 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <1993Jul16.000558.1013@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
References: <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com> <1993Jul15.204133.28879@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 00:05:58 GMT
Lines: 13

In article <1993Jul15.204133.28879@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> tmiller@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Terry Miller) writes:
>From article <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>, by richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson):
 
>> We intend to plant fruit and nut trees, as well as a large garden. I want
>> to encourage the deer and elk to remain so I'll probably put out a 
>> lick and hay in the winter.

>A little research may be in order - where I live, deer and elk just love
>grapes, fruit trees, and most garden plants and produce.

I don't think deer will eat hay.

Marc Kaufman (kaufman@CS.Stanford.edu)


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!rochester!cornell!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!jch Fri Jul 16 11:52:17 EDT 1993
Article: 5816 of misc.rural
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From: jch@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu (Jeffrey C Honig)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Buying a tractor
Message-ID: <JCH.93Jul15220357@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>
Date: 16 Jul 93 02:03:57 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Information Technologies/Network Resources; Cornell University;
	Ithaca, NY USA
Lines: 28
NNTP-Posting-Host: mitchell.cit.cornell.edu

I'm in the market for a tractor, basically an 8N or something a bit
larger.  It's major uses will be bushhogging 8 acres and plowing snow.
Although I'm sure it will help spread seed and nitrogen, and some
other stuff.  A friend thinks 8Ns are overpriced and recommends an MF
135 diesel, says he's seen a nice one for $3000.

I've looked at two 8Ns in the area.  One that seemed to run well, but
was banged up, rubber was fair except for one front tire.  It was
supposedly a a '52.  Another that I'm told runs well, has the
distributor in front and spark plugs in back, so I'm assuming it is
the older engine.  Didn't notice the rear rubber, but the front is
auto tires.  Both are asking $2500, seems high to me.

The second has a Ford 951 rotary cutter available, asking $400.  What
do I look for?

I just watched an auction.  An Oliver `super' 55 w/LPTO, one new front
tire, back rubber rotting, went for about $2400.  A MF 35 with
slightly better rubber and remote hydraulics went for $2700.

I've been watching the local papers and haven't seen much.  Any other
suggestions on places to look?  Anyone know of anything within a
reasonable distance of Ithaca, NY?  I think the market here is a bit
inflated and am looking for a better place.

Thanks.

Jeff


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!jch Fri Jul 16 11:52:18 EDT 1993
Article: 5817 of misc.rural
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From: jch@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu (Jeffrey C Honig)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Buying a tractor (cont)
Date: 15 Jul 93 22:26:12
Organization: Information Technologies/Network Resources; Cornell University;
	Ithaca, NY USA
Lines: 7
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Message-ID: <JCH.93Jul15222612@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mitchell.cit.cornell.edu

Forgot a question.  Can anyone recommend a fact book on tractors of
the 8N vintage that give power, features (LPTO vs PTO), years made.
Even some history.

Thanks.

Jeff


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!white!rtsg.mot.com!blazer9!sticha Fri Jul 16 11:52:19 EDT 1993
Article: 5818 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha)
Subject: Re: Heat:  Oil or Propane?   
Message-ID: <1993Jul16.010008.22519@rtsg.mot.com>
Sender: news@rtsg.mot.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: blazer9
Reply-To: sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
References:  <1993Jul13.033905.27003@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 01:00:08 GMT
Lines: 13

>aayyaa@mixcom.mixcom.com (Lloyd Schultz) writes:
>Thinking of supplementing with a corn burner next year.  They too are so
>efficient that they require no chimney, just something similar to a
>dryer vent.

The reference to high efficiency corn burners has piqued my interest. I thought
corn burners were just another variation of the pellet stove, nowhere near the
efficiency of modern furnaces. So how can you get away with a dryer vent? If
you have more info on these, such as manufacturer's name and city, dealers,
specs, etc. I would be most interested.

Dave Sticha
sticha@rtsg.mot.com


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!bounce-back Fri Jul 16 11:52:21 EDT 1993
Article: 5819 of misc.rural
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From: close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com (Diane Barlow Close, voting official)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.crafts.textiles,alt.sewing,rec.crafts.misc,rec.arts.misc,misc.rural,rec.org.sca,soc.women,misc.kids
Subject: CFV: rec.crafts.quilting
Followup-To: poster
Date: 16 Jul 1993 10:22:34 -0400
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA
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Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:3068 news.groups:54854 rec.crafts.textiles:4805 alt.sewing:7353 rec.crafts.misc:1801 rec.arts.misc:1238 misc.rural:5819 rec.org.sca:41538 soc.women:43432 misc.kids:65341

                             CALL FOR VOTES
                       for the proposed newsgroup:

                          rec.crafts.quilting

This is a Call For Votes (CFV) on the proposal to create a new newsgroup
called rec.crafts.quilting (not moderated).  The RFD was originally posted
by Diane Barlow Close (close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com) on 21 June, 1993.  The
name, status, and charter of the proposed group have been discussed and,
following more detailed explanations, no objections have been received.
The period for discussion has now ended.  You may continue the discussion
while the votes are being taken, but this will not have any effect on the
proposal of rec.crafts.quilting.  Any follow-up discussion should be
carried out on news.groups, or, if you cannot post, e-mailed to Elizabeth
J. Poole (ejp@watson.ibm.com) who has agreed to remain impartial.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please read the following information carefully, before sending in your
votes!  The group's charter is located after the instructions on how to
vote.  Vote by e-mail only.  Votes that are posted to any Usenet newsgroup
or mailing list will not be counted.  Everyone interested in the question
of whether to create the group rec.crafts.quilting is invited to vote.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO VOTE:

Send a message via E-MAIL to:

	vote@lunch.wpd.sgi.com

that states ONE of the following:

     I vote YES on the creation of rec.crafts.quilting.
OR
     I vote NO on the creation of rec.crafts.quilting.

Any wording is suitable as long as it's unambiguous.  Votes must not have
conditions ("I vote yes if..." or "I vote no unless..."); such ambiguous
votes will not be counted.  Votes or opinions on anything other than the
creation of rec.crafts.quilting will be ignored.

Please do not include a copy of the entire CFV with your vote!

Make sure you e-mail your vote to vote@lunch.wpd.sgi.com.  Replying to
this message will work, but be sure to use the "reply" option and not the
"post" option.  Votes that are posted to any Usenet newsgroup or mailing
list will not be counted.

You should receive a response to your vote, acknowledging its receipt,
within three days.  If you do not receive an acknowledgment, or if your
vote bounces, you can get help or have your vote counted manually by
sending mail to Marie-Christine Mahe (mahe-marie-christine@yale.edu).
Note:  use this address only if your vote bounces, or you experience some
other serious problem when voting!

WHO CAN VOTE:

Anyone interested in the question of whether to create the group
rec.crafts.quilting is invited to vote.  In addition to the newsgroups
listed at the top of this posting, this CFV is also being sent to
QuiltNet (quilt@cornell.edu), a mailing list regularly announced in
rec.crafts.textiles and alt.sewing.  The mailing list is open to anyone on
the Internet, and its readers have an equal concern in this newsgroup's
creation process.

You MUST have a valid e-mail address in order to vote.  You may NOT vote
by proxy.  Your friend may NOT vote for you.  You may NOT send your vote
using an anonymous service.  The moderator of a mailing list may NOT
collect votes for his/her members.  You MUST send your vote directly.
Your real name MUST appear somewhere in the text of your message, if it's
not in your machine's address field, for your vote to be considered
valid.

Only one vote per person will be counted.  However, if you vote and then
change your mind, send in a new, updated vote.  Only the last valid vote
from each person will be counted.

I will post this Call For Votes three times in total.  Attached to the
second and third CFV will be a list of people whose votes have been
received so far.  If you voted but do not see your name and e-mail address
in the acknowledgments, then please re-send your vote.  (No indication as
to how anyone voted will be given until after 15 August, 1993.)

The second and third CFV's distribution will be limited to
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, rec.crafts.textiles, alt.sewing and
rec.crafts.misc as well as QuiltNet, the quilting mailing list
(quilt@cornell.edu).

RESULTS:

The results will be posted to the net shortly after the voting period ends
at 23:59, Pacific Time, on Sunday, 15 August, 1993.  Included with the
results will be a list of voters and how they voted.  In accordance with
Usenet rules, there will then be a five day waiting period during which
anyone may challenge the recording of his or her vote.  Once any
corrections have been made, the results are final.

The newsgroup rec.crafts.quilting will be created only if the YES votes
outnumber the NO votes by at least 2/3, and if there are at least 100 more
YES votes than NO votes.  If either of these conditions is not met, the
proposal fails and must wait at least six months before being put once
more to a discussion and vote.

REC.CRAFTS.QUILTING (NOT MODERATED) CHARTER:

This newsgroup is for discussing anything related to quilting.  It
includes piecing, applique, and tying and quilting by hand or machine.
Discussions may cover techniques, supplies, equipment, drafting of
patterns, templates, dyeing materials, artistic approaches, exhibitions,
shows, books and other references, mail order resources, dating quilts and
appraising quilts.  Discussions may include quilts and quilting both past
(historical quilting) and present, ethnic quilting, quilts to be used in a
home, quilted clothing to be worn, as well as quilts created for display
and any other piecing or quilting applications.
-- 
Diane Barlow Close
	close@lunch.wpd.sgi.com 
	I'm at lunch today.  :-)


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!butch!rapnet!news Fri Jul 16 11:52:22 EDT 1993
Article: 5820 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!butch!rapnet!news
From: ln21531@sander.lockheed.com (Jan Marshall)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <ln21531.116@sander.lockheed.com>
Sender: news@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com (USENET News System)
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
References: <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com> <1993Jul15.204133.28879@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 11:41:41 GMT
Lines: 38

In article <1993Jul15.204133.28879@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> tmiller@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Terry Miller) writes:

>From article <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>, by richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson):
>> Jan Marshall (ln21531@sander.lockheed.com) wrote:
>> : In article <CA3x9E.730@spk.hp.com> richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson) writes:
>> : 
>> : 
>> : >  I'm going rural!!!
>> : >Just closed on ten acres in the Idaho Panhandle (northern Idaho).
>> : >My wife and I went and splashed some champane on it yesterday.
>> : >It's woodsy, with a small meadow, lots of blue berries and a view!
>> : >I'm flying high!!!!
>> : 
>> : >Darrell the flying Barrel
>> : 
>> : Congratulations!  Are either of you from a rural upbringing?  What are your 
>> : plans for your new found privacy?  (Boy am I nosy!)
>> : 
>> : Jan
>> 
>>   We aren't from a rural upbringing! Our plans are a little vague, but
>> include putting in a cross country skiing track around the outside.
>> We intend to plant fruit and nut trees, as well as a large garden. I want
>> to encourage the deer and elk to remain so I'll probably put out a 
>> lick and hay in the winter. Cathy wants to plant grapes and berries to

Careful!  Putting licks out for "game" animals is illegal in some states.  
It's construed by some regulations as baiting, and is viewed to be as bad 
as jacklighting. 

>> try various wine making ideas. We also want to keep the woodsy look, and
>> I want to plant some maples & oaks. Oh yes, how could I forget the
>> flower and herb gardens.

Holy cow!  Are you guys retiring or are you that full of energy and ambition?
(BOY, am I nosy.)

Jan


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!fractal!mdchaney Fri Jul 16 23:07:57 EDT 1993
Article: 5821 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!fractal!mdchaney
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <CA9Io9.C2L@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: fractal.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
References: <ln21531.110@sander.lockheed.com> <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 14:52:57 GMT
Lines: 26

richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson) writes:
>  We aren't from a rural upbringing! Our plans are a little vague, but
>include putting in a cross country skiing track around the outside.
>We intend to plant fruit and nut trees, as well as a large garden. I want
>to encourage the deer and elk to remain so I'll probably put out a 
>lick and hay in the winter. Cathy wants to plant grapes and berries to
>try various wine making ideas. We also want to keep the woodsy look, and
>I want to plant some maples & oaks. Oh yes, how could I forget the
>flower and herb gardens.

I laughed when I saw this.  You're going to plant fruit and nut trees,
plant grapes and berries, and have flower and herb gardens.  But here's
the kicker: You want to encourage the deer and elk to stick around so
you're going to put out a lick and some hay.

After you plant all the other things, you won't need to do anything else
to make the deer and elk want to stay.  As a matter of fact, if you want
to enjoy any of those berries and grapes, I suspect we'll be seeing a
post from you asking how to keep deer and elk off the property...

	Darrin
-- 
M Darrin Chaney, Senior Database Programmer, University Computing Services, IU
mdchaney@indiana.edu             1000 E 17th St.           Work: (812)855-5492
mdchaney@iubacs.bitnet           Bloomington, IN 47408     Home: (812)333-6311
"I want- I need- to live, to see it all..."


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!fractal!mdchaney Fri Jul 16 23:07:57 EDT 1993
Article: 5822 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!fractal!mdchaney
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <CA9ItE.CDE@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: fractal.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
References: <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com> <1993Jul15.204133.28879@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> <1993Jul16.000558.1013@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 14:56:02 GMT
Lines: 11

kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) writes:
>I don't think deer will eat hay.

They do.  I've seen them eat it along side the cows before.

	Darrin
-- 
M Darrin Chaney, Senior Database Programmer, University Computing Services, IU
mdchaney@indiana.edu             1000 E 17th St.           Work: (812)855-5492
mdchaney@iubacs.bitnet           Bloomington, IN 47408     Home: (812)333-6311
"I want- I need- to live, to see it all..."


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!crash!donb Fri Jul 16 23:07:58 EDT 1993
Article: 5823 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!crash!donb
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: Re: Buying a tractor (cont)
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Distribution: misc
Date: 16 Jul 93 16:08:37 GMT
Message-ID: <donb.742838917@crash.cts.com>
References: <JCH.93Jul15222612@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>
Lines: 18

In <JCH.93Jul15222612@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu> jch@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu (Jeffrey C Honig) writes:

>Forgot a question.  Can anyone recommend a fact book on tractors of
>the 8N vintage that give power, features (LPTO vs PTO), years made.
>Even some history.

>Thanks.

>Jeff

 
     There is an 9N,2N,8N newsletter which can be reached at:
          9N-2N-8N Newsletter
          Gerard W. Rinaldi
          154 Blackwood Lane
          Stamford, CT   06903
 
	DonB


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!jchamber Fri Jul 16 23:07:58 EDT 1993
Article: 5824 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!jchamber
From: jchamber@unl.edu (jeffrey chambers)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Pond Resucitation
Date: 16 Jul 1993 18:51:24 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <226tbcINN47v@crcnis1.unl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
Keywords: ponds

     Just bought 20 acres with 2 large ponds.  One of the ponds is 
overgrown around the banks with vegatation and half of water surface 
is overgrown.  Water level appears to be low and I have not yet 
measured the inflow.
     What are my options and where can I get the best information on 
pond revival.  Would like to fix with lots of labor and little cash.  


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!wetware!spunky.RedBrick.COM!psinntp!psinntp!eye!dan Fri Jul 16 23:07:59 EDT 1993
Article: 5825 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!wetware!spunky.RedBrick.COM!psinntp!psinntp!eye!dan
From: dan@eye.com (Dan Loewus)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Going Rural
Message-ID: <1993Jul16.155819.16896@eye.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 19:58:19 GMT
References: <ln21531.110@sander.lockheed.com> <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com>
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY
Lines: 13

In article <CA7vxA.56q@spk.hp.com> richards@spk.hp.com (Darrell H. Richardson) writes:
>  We aren't from a rural upbringing! Our plans are a little vague, but
>include putting in a cross country skiing track around the outside.
>We intend to plant fruit and nut trees, as well as a large garden. I want
>to encourage the deer and elk to remain so I'll probably put out a 
>lick and hay in the winter. Cathy wants to plant grapes and berries to

Just plant the garden, that'll bring em.

-- 
 .|. 
 -o- "A hallucination is only as real as the eyes that see it."
 .|.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!yuma!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!kc354645 Fri Jul 16 23:08:00 EDT 1993
Article: 5826 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: sci.environment,talk.environment,misc.rural,alt.politics.clinton
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!yuma!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!kc354645
From: kc354645@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Kung-Yang Chang)
Subject: Question on Public Land Grazing Fees
Sender: news@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account)
Message-ID: <Jul17.003608.64309@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 00:36:08 GMT
Distribution: usa
Nntp-Posting-Host: mears.lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College
Keywords: grazing fee
Followup-To: talk.environment
Lines: 24
Xref: samba.oit.unc.edu sci.environment:26258 talk.environment:10001 misc.rural:5826 alt.politics.clinton:33477


Hello everyone!

I have heard President Clinton's plan to raise the 
public land grazing fees have failed, recently. 
I have also heard that Bruce Babbit, the Secretary of the Department of
Interior, is working on a plan to increase the public land 
grazing fees.  Babbit plans to charge the small ranchers less
than the big/coporate ranchers, and base the grazing fee  
on the environmental condition of the land (the better the
land, the lower the grazing fee).

Does anyone have more detailed information about how Bruce Babbit
is going to increase the public land grazing fee and and how much
the new grazing fee will be?  Also, does anyone know of any other
government plans to increase the public land grazing fees? 

If you have the information, please e-mail me or post a message.

Thanks in advance.

    Ted Chang
    Internet: kc354645@longs.lance.colostate.edu



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU!jf7e Sat Jul 24 12:37:24 EDT 1993
Article: 5896 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU!jf7e
From: jf7e@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Joel  Furtek)
Subject: Anyone telecommuting?
Message-ID: <CAnCCx.L6p@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 02:02:57 GMT
Lines: 17

Just curious if any of the folks on this newsgroup live a rural
lifestyle but are not primarily farmers.  In particular, does
anyone out there hold a traditional city-type job, but perform
it in a rural setting through the use of communications
technology such as the net?

Just planning my life with my wife, and curious to know if the
much heralded job-freedom through technology has arrived.

Thanks,

Joel
--
Joel Furtek
University of Virginia
Graduate Program in Physical Education
res firma mitescere nescit


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!rijtaylo Sat Jul 24 12:39:35 EDT 1993
Article: 5881 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!silver.ucs.indiana.edu!rijtaylo
From: rijtaylo@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Crafty)
Subject: AgEcon
Message-ID: <CALFr3.DJF@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
References: <CA3tA7.Gnu@sugar.neosoft.com> <1993Jul14.095611.13842@gps.leeds.ac.uk> <CA5sE8.D2G@sugar.NeoSoft.COM>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 01:21:02 GMT
Lines: 32

In article <1993Jul20.164943.25917@sisd.kodak.com> maa@sisd.kodak.com (Mark Armstrong soft) writes:

>A "few square feet" can provide your agricultural needs? What are you going
>to do, plant some corn, put a cow over the corn and raise some chickens on
>top of the cow?

	The guy I presently work for has four (4) acres in crops,
mostly veggies. His only problem is that he cannot keep up with demand.

>What are the cost of starting a farm? I can't imagine any
>farm with enough land to provide a living would cost under
>$100,000. Raising cattle, you need to start up you herds.
>Growing wheat, you are going to need tractors, seeders (??)
>harvesters.

	You don't have to raise cattle or wheat to work a living from
the soil, for one thing. You don't necessarily need 'a herd'; you can
get going with one animal (in combination with other products, of
course) and work up from there. 
The guy who edits _Small Farmers Journal_ in Oregon got his start in
farming when he bought four draft horses and some eqt. for $13,000.
What motivated him to do this? It was cheaper than mechanized eqt. for
the same purpose.
	I have forgotten the man's name, but he writes that one person
with a team o four can work 200 acres. 
	I agree with you that buying into industrial agriculture would
be a royal pain, but why do that when subverting it is so much cheaper
-- 
___________________________________
turn your back on weeds you've hoed, silly sinful sins you've sowed-
add your straw to the camel's load, pray like hell when the world explode...
						--Buffy Ste-Marie


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!wingnut!keithji Mon Jul 26 23:34:13 EDT 1993
Article: 5931 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!wingnut!keithji
From: keithji@microsoft.com (Keith Jin)
Subject: natural farming
Message-ID: <1993Jul26.220550.15072@microsoft.com>
Date: 26 Jul 93 22:05:50 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa
Lines: 17

I read about natural farming from Masanobu Fukuoka's book 
"The One-Straw Revolution." Fukuoka is a Japaness farmer.
In the book, he talks about his farming pratice with no-tillage, 
no cultivation and no chemical fertilizer.  It is a good 
book, very inspiring. 

Do anyone know if there is any natural farming practice here in
America? 

I live in the Seattle area (west coast) and thinking about buying 
some land to try out natural farming. But it seems good agricuture
land is always expensive. I don't think I need a lot of land. Just 
a few acres are probably enough. I am mainly looking for sufficient 
water supply and good soil drainage. Are there places in other areas 
that land is still afordable and good for growing food? 

Keith


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!uwec.edu!lockekt Mon Jul 26 23:35:07 EDT 1993
Article: 5905 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!uwec.edu!lockekt
From: lockekt@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Earthships & Rammed Earth
Message-ID: <1993Jul24.202604.8696@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
Date: 24 Jul 93 20:26:04 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire
Lines: 75


Earthships:

I've been reading misc.rural, sci.energy, and sci.environment for several
months now, but have not seen any info on Earthships.  I posted to
sci.environment several weeks ago, but got no response from the
newsgroup (although one gentleman did write a long, very helpful
e-mail letter to me {thanks!}).

For the uninitiated, Earthships are apparently environmentally friendly
homes that are primarily made from recycled material and are essentially
self-sufficient.  They have been developed and promoted by an architect
in Taos, NM, called Michael Reynolds.

The Earthship premise is best summed up by a pamphlet sent out by
"Solar Survival Architecture" in Taos:

   "Earthships, when appropirately executed, require no back-up heating
or cooling due to their ability to tap into the constant temperature of the
earth itself and store additional energy from the sun in winter. They can be
built in almost any climate since, even without adequate sunlight, the thermal
mass helps to alleviate the dependence on conventional energy sources.
Earthships are designed to grow food inside and to maintain their own
solar electrical and water systems, thus Earthships can go where utility
lines do not.
    "The basic structure of Earthships consists of bearing walls made by
pounding earth into used automobile tires....(these) temperature-
storing bearing walls...act like a battery-storing up energy and discharging
it when needed...
    "Interior "partition walls" are made from aluminum cans laid in cement
mortar...
    "Like a ship, the buildings are meant to be self-contained,
independent and carry the inhabitant to a better future. Earthships
consistently cost about 25% less than equivalent designs built of
conventional materials..."

Anyway, I've seen a video called "Dennis Weaver's Earthship" which shows
the building of his Dream House in Colorado. I've read the article in the
Oct/Nov 1991 issue of "Mother Earth News" about Earthships and Reynolds.
I've seen the pictures in People magazine. And I've flipped through
the books by Reynolds (_Earthship_Vol._I_&_II_).

The questions I have are:

  1. Is this all for real? (ie does it work?)
  2. If it does work, why haven't I heard more about it? (I stumbled
onto the People and Mother Earth News articles accidentally.)
  3. What's the catch? (ie using up old cans, tires, etc seems like
a great deal. Passive/Active solar power also seems great!  So what's
the downside in building one of these houses?)
  4. Can they be built w/out the adobe/Santa Fe style I see done in
so many of the pictures?
  5. Can they really be built off the electrical-grid?
  6. How do they look?  (most pictures I have seen look a little
rough and cluttered on the outside)
  7. How do I find more information? (especially personal views from
people who might have actually lived in one of these things)
  8. Lastly, where are they at?  (I would like to visit one personally.
Unfortunately, I was in Taos 2 years ago {before I heard about them}
and didn't visit the various sites there. I won't be going back to that
area any time soon. So info on other Earthships sites around the country
that would be available for tour would be much appreciated.)

A house made of used material, doesn't require outside energy, is
cheap to build, uses water from showers and sinks to water food grown
inside the house, etc, etc. Sounds too good to be true!!

[PS:  I also recently read a interesting article in "Garbage" magazine
about "rammed earth" housing and their energy efficiency. Both the
rammed earth and earthships seem to work on the prinicple of "mass
effect." (ie absorbing heat in winter and deflecting heat in summer)]

Thanks

Personal info may be e-mailed to:  lockekt@cnsvax.uwec.edu   


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!bradley.bradley.edu!bradley.bradley.edu!not-for-mail Wed Jul 28 12:35:00 EDT 1993
Article: 5922 of misc.rural
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From: warren@bradley.bradley.edu (Warren McReynolds)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: lakes & dams
Date: 26 Jul 1993 09:49:23 -0500
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Summary: Need info on care & feeding

I have two questions:

The first is; should trees be allowed to grow on an earthen dam?

The second is a lot more general.  Can anyone share some knowledge/

wisdom/sources of same about the general care and feeding of lakes

and earthen dams?

TIA

warren mcreynolds



From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!noc.near.net!mv!synergy.Synergytics.Com!marc Wed Jul 28 12:35:59 EDT 1993
Article: 5943 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: marc@synergy.Synergytics.Com (Marc Evans)
Subject: Re: lakes & dams
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In article <230qtj$am6@bradley.bradley.edu>, warren@bradley.bradley.edu (Warren McReynolds) writes:
|> I have two questions:
|> 
|> The first is; should trees be allowed to grow on an earthen dam?

In NH, the state comes and checks all dams on a semi-regular
basis (every few years). They have the authority to mandate
certain maintenance. One of the things that they mandate is that
all brush/trees on top or with 20 feet of the dam must be
removed. However, you must NOT remove the stumps from any trees.

There are numerous other things the state mandates too, but are
really outside the scope of this discussion (why do I know?
Because I have had to perform the mandated work on mulitple
occasions )-8 ).

|> The second is a lot more general.  Can anyone share some knowledge/
|> wisdom/sources of same about the general care and feeding of lakes
|> and earthen dams?

Most states have a "Department of Water/Wetlands" (or similiar)
which usually have free handouts about this type of issue. NH
even has a volunteer lake monitoring program (federally funded)
which continually checks water conditions and other
characteristics of the ponds/lakes/wetlands. You may want to
contact your state about similiar programs.

In general, lakes/ponds don't need a whole lot of care; they are
going to evolve on their own. You should try to keep detergents
(and especially phosphates) out of the general basin which feeds
the lake, as these will greatly contribute to weed growth. If
you already have more weeds then you would like, it is probably
too late. Do NOT disturb the muck on the bottom trying to remove
weeds, as you will stir up any phosphates/detergents which
usually settle there, and only contribute to the feeding of the
weeds/plants.

If you enjoy the wildlife on the water, try to leave the
shoreline as undisturbed as possible. The bushes and things that
overhang the shore are usually feeding grounds for ducks, geese,
and other *critters*. Putting sand onto a sloped area is also
bad in general, as it will almost always end up in the bottom of
the lake through errosion.

As far as the dam is concerned, try to keep some form of ground
cover on it, such as grass or myrdal, or something which has
enough roots to keep the soil in place. Watch for sepage along
the base on the back side (especially if the dam is built on top
of ledge). If you notice sepage, you may need to consider major
maintenance, such as placing a layer of clay along the upstream
face (usually requiring a bunch of permits, if you go by the
books). Keeping trees, bushes and large weeds off the dam itself
is a good idea, as the root systems can cause major problems. If
you have these already, simply cut them down, but don't remove
the stump(s), as you may cause more damage then good.

- Marc

-- 
===========================================================================
Marc Evans - Marc@Synergytics.COM           | Synergytics     (603)635-8876
WB1GRH     - WB1GRH@WA1YTW.NH.USA           | 21 Hinds Ln, Pelham, NH 03076
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                      Unix and X11 Software Consultant 
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From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!twahl Wed Jul 28 12:39:42 EDT 1993
Article: 5966 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
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From: twahl@nyx.cs.du.edu (Tony Wahl)
Subject: Re: lakes & dams
Message-ID: <1993Jul28.032930.24849@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
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In article <CAtpK9.Izq@mv.mv.com> Marc@Synergytics.Com writes:
>
>Keeping trees, bushes and large weeds off the dam itself
>is a good idea, as the root systems can cause major problems. If
>you have these already, simply cut them down, but don't remove
>the stump(s), as you may cause more damage then good.

Actually, once large trees have grown on the dam, the damage is probably done,
whether you leave them, cut and leave stumps, or cut and remove stumps.
You'll never get all the roots out and once the tree has died these roots will
slowly rot away.  If any of the roots have penetrated the core of the dam
(the impermeable water retaining structure in the center of the dam, usually
a dense clay), then as the roots rot you are left with a hole through the
dam.  Hence the importance of keeping large trees from ever growing on the
dam.  Of course if you have trees already, leaving them just makes for a bigger
problem sometime in the future as the roots continue growing larger and deeper
into the dam.


--
Tony L. Wahl                                                twahl@nyx.cs.du.edu


