Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?

From: [email-masked] (Hal Lillywhite)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 06:39:52 -0800

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] writes:

>I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
>However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is,

Very stable.  The carbonic acid in soda is rather corrosive so these
containers must be stable to stand up against it.  They are
excellent for long term storage.

>and what I should treat the water with to make it last longer.

First, start with good pure water.  If it comes from a municipal
system in the US it will already have most junk removed and the pH
adjusted to the point that chlorine will be an effective
disinfectant.  Under these conditions about a drop of chlorine
bleach per 2 liter bottle will keep it safe for drinking.

If you obtain your water from an unknown source use iodine for
disinfection.  The best way to do this is to use PolarPure
(registered trademark) or the equivalent and follow the directions.

Alternatively you can just keep the water in *absolute* darkness.
All the nasties need a source of energy to grow, that source being
either already existing organic matter or light.  In the absence of
light once all organic matter is consumed the microbes will all die
of starvation.  However if any light reaches the water some of the
little critters will grow by photosynthesis and make food for others
so you can get a bioculture growing, possibly including some disease
causing organisms.

Boiling of course is a good disinfection technique, but it does
nothing to prevent future microbe growth except that it reduces
initial stocks.  If you can bring your water to boiling temperature
inside a sealed container and keep it sealed it should stay safe.
One way to do this is to use ordinary home canning techniques and
just "can" your water in Mason jars.  I don't think I would trust
soda bottles for this.

---

From: [email-masked] (James Collins)
Date: 28 Mar 1995 18:28:15 -0800

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>I've seen this suggestion before and wonder why the need to add the
>chlorine.  Didn't the municipal sysytem already treat it with chlorine?

I think it just knocks down the nasties.  Doesn't kill them all.  When the
chlorine fades, guess who comes back? :)  You are supposed to rotate your
stored water after six months, but I imagine that as long as you put
chlorine in for storage, and some more before you use it, you wouldn't
have too many problems.  Its your life though... :)  After the big January
earthquake here, I had bottles of water that were a bit more than a year
old.  I purified them and drank them without any side effects (other than
an imagination that was insisting I was committing suicide... :) :) :) ).
I rotate them now, with the thought that, in an emergency, I really didn't
need more to worry about...  Oh, by the way, it *does* help to have a
filter that can at least take out the chlorine (like a Brita jug).  It
doesn't do anything about nasties in the water, but it sure makes the
water taste better.  Chlorine is nasty...

                                                James

---

From: [email-masked] (Richard Meyers)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:52:54 GMT

[email-masked] (Rick De Castro) writes:

>In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (TC Lai) writes:
>>From: [email-masked] (TC Lai)
>>Subject: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 21:53

>>However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should
>>treat the water with to make it last longer.

>>Anybody with storage advice?

>>TC

>I just fill them and keep them under the sink - and rotate the water every six 
>months or so.  YMMV

Adding a teaspoon of 6% food grade hydrogen peroxide might also prove useful.  
It's available through The Family News (800) 284-6261.  They have a catalog/
newsletter most should find interesting.

Hydrogen peroxide is a very effective antibiotic, antifungal, and antiviral
agent.  I personally consider it _MUCH_ better than the various chlorine-based
chemicals currently being used in our water supply.  Bubbling ozone gas 
(assuming you have a machine to generate it) is also good.  It can be done 
just before sealing the bottle and/or just before drinking.

Many people with livestock find that adding hydrogen peroxide to their 
animals' water supply (50-100 ppm) give good results (helps keep animals
disease free).  In a survival situation, healthy livestock can be very
valuable.

---

From: [email-masked] (Keith W. Sheffield)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:42:36 GMT

>>>>> "W" == W Joseph Cooklin <[email-masked]> writes:
In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (W. Joseph Cooklin) writes:

> In a previous posting, Paul Zaccari (lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz) writes:
>> In article <[email-masked]>,
>> [email-masked] says...
>>> However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should treat
>>> the water with to make it last longer.
>>> 

> I try to keep on hand a 3 day supply of water (two 2 liter bottles per
> person per day, I also count my dog as a person), so for 5 people that would
> be 30 bottles. We always get more bottles, so we pitch the oldest every now
> and then. We also dump them all every 3 months and refill them.  The 3 month
> old water does not taste bad or even too flat, so I'm pretty sure its still
> ok.

> For larger capacity storage, you could use food grade plastic barrels and
> pipe them into your cold water line and from there to the hot water heater,
> that way you would create a reserve of continually freshened water (somebody
> else's idea, I can't take credit for it).

So one would just cut a couple holes in the top and cement some cpvc pipe to
the barrels and hook that into the existing lines?  Cool.  Another side effect
of this would be that if there was an existing heat source near the barrels,
the water heater wouldn't have to heat the water as much.

> -- Joseph Cooklin

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
                
Keith W. Sheffield   Programmer, Software Development     Hughes STX Corporation
EROS Data Center     Mundt Federal Building               Sioux Falls, SD  57198
att: 605-594-6838    email:[email-masked]   fax: 605-594-6589

Opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent official
policy of the NMD, USGS, DOI, or Federal Government.
________________________________________________________________________________
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---

From: [email-masked] (Keith W. Sheffield)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:42:36 GMT

---

From: [email-masked] (Shaun Kelly)
Date: 30 Mar 1995 20:36:23 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Robert E. Tackett <[email-masked]> wrote:
>[email-masked] (W. Joseph Cooklin) writes:
>
>
>>pipe them into your cold water line and from there to the hot water
>>heater, that way you would create a reserve of continually freshened water
>>(somebody else's idea, I can't take credit for it).
>
>Now, this seems like an excellent idea.  I wonder if the plastic barrels 
>you're talking about are strong enough to withstand inline water pressure?
>If they are, you can create a water storage tank(s) directly to/from your 
>water line.  You could have 50 or 100 or more gallons of water that are
>constantly being recycled.  

Of course, what happens if you discover, only too late, that there's a 
problem with the municipal water?  For example, supposing there was bacteria
in the city water, and it was discovered widespread through the system
only after a number of cases were diagnosed?  The continously freshened
water would have been freshened from the contaminated source...you'd have
water but you'd need to treat it/purify it yourself.

Not the biggest threat, and not the hardest to solve, given chemicals/
filters, but just a possible hitch?

-spk, [email-masked], .sig TBA at a later date.

---

From: lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz (Paul Zaccari)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:53:43 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...
>
>In article <[email-masked]>,
>Greg Davis <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>In our area we used to have problems with muddy water about half a 
dozen times
>>a year.  Now that we tied into a different system the occurance is only 
about
>>one a year.  Somebody digs into a line or an old one breaks.  A couple 
times I
>>have been caught unaware, I can't believe this black goo coming out of 
faucets
>>is not newsworthy.  I have run a little water but don't notice anything 
till
>>after I have thrown in a load of wash and when the tub is half full it 
starts
>>to finally come through the pipes.
>>
>>Some types of disasters could cause similar problems.  At the least an
>>earthquake would stir up the sediment in all the pipes.  Won't 
connecting your
>>emergency supply directly into the water line lead to pollution just 
when you
>>need it most?
>
>It would if you were pumping at the time.  But if you had everything 
off,
>pollution shouldn't get in IMHO.  Still, I wouldn't put all my eggs in
>that bucket... :)  I'd have extra water stored away, with this thing
>being extra storage.  If it is ok, great, if not, no loss.  Also, just
>thought of something.  Even if it gets contaminated, you can still use 
it
>to flush the toilets, etc.  ie. use it as grey water...
>
>                                                        James

 Or have the means to build water treatment equipment. And a few 
Kaytadyne or Sweetwater filter couldn't hurt. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------
|Paul Zaccari  |  "You can't get good chinese takeout in China and |
|              |  cuban cigars are rationed in Cuba. That's all    |  
|Speak softly  |  you need to know about communism."               |
|and carry.    |                                   -P.J. ORourke   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"If I did a tenth of the things that the Kennedys do the Law would|
|be all over me like ugly on Janet Reno."                          |
|                                           -Me                    |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| All views and opinions are my own. (Nothing my company says is   |
| worth repeating).                                                |
--------------------------------------------------------------------

From Ben Farmer Sun Apr  2 22:31:30 EDT 1995
Article: 8900 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.sccsi.com!nuchat!usenet
From: Ben Farmer
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 29 Mar 1995 07:14:32 GMT
Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tty17.com1.oknet.com
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [email-masked] (TC Lai) writes:

IMHO this is a good idea for -part- of a water reserve program.
The plastic pop bottles are designed to be durable and to
not let anything leech through the plastic to destroy the 
taste. Four drops of pure chlorine bleech will keep the water
for at least five years if kept in a cool dark location.
In the average conditions it will take two bottles per person
per day.

A good book with this and much more info on the subject
of surviving hard times is---

	"Preparing for Emergencies" 
	by James McKeever
	Omega Publications
	P.O. Box 4130
	Medford, Oregon 97501

From Ben Farmer Sun Apr  2 22:32:42 EDT 1995
Article: 8900 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.sccsi.com!nuchat!usenet
From: Ben Farmer
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 29 Mar 1995 07:14:32 GMT
Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
References: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tty17.com1.oknet.com
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [email-masked] (TC Lai) writes:

IMHO this is a good idea for -part- of a water reserve program.
The plastic pop bottles are designed to be durable and to
not let anything leech through the plastic to destroy the 
taste. Four drops of pure chlorine bleech will keep the water
for at least five years if kept in a cool dark location.
In the average conditions it will take two bottles per person
per day.

A good book with this and much more info on the subject
of surviving hard times is---

	"Preparing for Emergencies" 
	by James McKeever
	Omega Publications
	P.O. Box 4130
	Medford, Oregon 97501

---

From: [email-masked] (John T. Zoltai)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 05:43:20 GMT

>I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
...

>Anybody with storage advice?

I've tried that route. It's a genuine pain in the tuckus. You wind up
carting a zillion bottles back and forth. There's a better way: You can get
large polyethylene barrels that are DOT spec for foods (including water),
with liquid tight seals. Light tight, too. A supplier by the name of
National Bag (800-247-6000) carries them, among others. Look for "open head
drum" in sizes from 8 gal to 55 gal, last catalog priced the 55 gal drum at
$76.40.

The trick is keeping the water fresh. Hooking the drum(s) up to your water
supply, like at the hot water tank, is one approach, but that implies
building a system designed to be constantly pressurized. A simpler approach
is to use the drum for gardening water, or hydroponics water, whatever. This
forces you to keep adding new water to the supply, thereby keeping it fresh.
Depends on how much work you're willing to go through to set up the water
storage system in the first place.

Of course, if you're storing water in a bunker or other bug-out location,
then you may want to add iodine as mentioned in this forum for long term
storage. The drums are light tight, though, so there won't be much growth
going on inside. Don't try to store a year's worth of water; make sure you
have a stable source of water available, then have a good set of water
filters on hand, enough to filter one to five years worth of water.

- John T. Zoltai - Consulting in business information systems.

  "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one
   time or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had
   been involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and
   _could_have_, according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold."
                       -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago.

---

From: [email-masked] (Keith W. Sheffield)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:01:56 GMT

>>>>> "John" == John T Zoltai <[email-masked]> writes:

> drum" in sizes from 8 gal to 55 gal, last catalog priced the 55 gal drum at

Emergency Essentials in Utah (800-999-1863) has food grade 25-55 gal drums.
The 55 gal drum is about $56.  They carry lots of other stuff too.  Ranging
from 72-hr kits, camping supplies, books, water filters, dehydrated food,
MREs, etc.

>   "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one time
> or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had been
> involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and _could_have_,
> according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold."  -- Aleksandr
> Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago.