From atlanform@aol.com Sun Mar 12 16:22:47 EST 1995
Article: 7713 of misc.survivalism
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From: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Try For a 6 Crop Growing Season
Date: 19 Feb 1995 02:50:10 -0500
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                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
                                    CompuServe Address: 75721,55
 
 
                    TRY FOR A SIX CROP GROWING SEASON by Kurt Saxon
                            THE SURVIVOR
 
                Most  gardeners get  only  one crop  per  plant species 
per
           season. A corn stalk will give one or two ears and then you
might
           as well pull it  up and replant. Tomatoes, squash,  cucumbers
and
           many other  vegetable plants will  produce up to a  bushel in
the
           first  few weeks after maturity and then produce very little
from
           then on.
 
                If you mean to produce for the sake of production, it's
best
           to  replace the  plant after  its maximum  productive  period
and
           replace it with  a plant just  beginning to mature. In  this
way,
           you can gain maximum production throughout the growing season.
 
                In the same  sense, you should not have that  space taken
up
           by a plant  not nearing its productive  cycle. That's a waste 
of
           space  and  isn't  necessary.  Many  gardeners,  especially 
pro-
           fessional  growers, sprout seeds, put them  in planters, and
when
           they approach maturity, set them  in the garden so that  no
space
           is wasted by immature or declining plants.
 
                So the idea of full-cropping isn't new and  has been used
in
           various  ways for hundreds of  years. But most  people accept
the
           idea of planting a tiny seed in a large space and letting its
one
           plant take  up the whole season. My method gets from three to
six
           times the vegetables from the same space in the same time.
 
                The basic program  is for those vegetables grown  during
the
           average  six months  when  the sun  is  highest and  the 
weather
           warmest.  Off season, the sunlight weakens and the day is
shorter
           and the  weather is  too cold  or too  wet. So, generally, 
we're
           dealing with April, May, June, July, August and September.
 
                If  outside plants are protected  from the wet  and cold,
as
           with the  miniature greenhouses described in  "Making And
Selling
           Tire Gardens", in  this volume, four months  may be added  to
the
           growing  season in  temperate climates.  Of course,  this
applies
           mainly to plants not requiring the maximum of direct sunlight.
 
                You can  experiment  with these  later but  first you 
might
           stick to the most common warm-weather vegetables until you
master
           the system.  Then you can  branch out to  cold-weather
vegetables
           and exotics.
 
 
 
 
 
                       (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973                      
                     1 
 
 
 
 
 
                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72511 
                                  CompuServe Address: 75721,55
 
                Perfecting this system for  yourself has several
advantages.
           More vegetables is the  basic advantage. You'll also  know
you'll
           have  enough to sell,  rather than just  a small  surplus to
give
           away.  The most  important advantage  is that  your crop  will
be
           predictable. You'll have a good idea, week to week, just how
much
           produce you'll have at any given time.
 
                Knowing what you've got and what you'll have will 
guarantee
           your  customers a steady supply so  they'll depend on you and
you
           can depend on them to buy all  your produce. And you can sell
all
           you produce.
 
                Consider  the prices  for vegetables  in the  supermarket
in
           Harrison,  Arkansas  in  May,  1993: Tomatoes,  $1.29  lb., 
leaf
           lettuce $1.29 lb.,  radish, .99  per bunch; bell  peppers, 3 
for
           $1.00; cucumbers, 3 for $1.00; green onions, 3 bunches for
$1.00;
           spinach, $1.29; carrots, 5 lb. for $1.99; broccoli, $1.29; 
sugar
           snap  peas, $2.79 lb.; red  cabbage, .99 lb.;  green cabbage,
.39
           lb; cauliflower, $1.29 each; zucchini squash, .99 lb.;
asparagus,
           $1.59 lb., etc.
 
                Considering the fact  that once you've gotten set  up
you'll
           have   practically  no   overhead,  you  could   profitably 
sell
           vegetables at one-half the store price. To begin, as soon as
your
           crops  start  coming  in,  start knocking  on  doors  around
your
           neighborhood.  Tell  the  people  you'll  sell them 
fresh-picked
           vegetables for one-half the  store price and you'll sell  all
you
           can  raise and  there won't  be  one door  closed  in your 
face.
           Whether you  use a push-cart, a  pickup or sell from  the back
of
           your car, you're in business.
 
                Your  next  step would  be  to approach  a  local
restaurant
           manager with  the offer to sell  him vegetables for  a third
less
           than he already pays.  Easy pickings there if you can guarantee
a
           daily supply. By  the time you can supply a  grocery store
you'll
           have to  expand  and hire  help. But  you'll be  doing very 
well
           indeed,  because   you  can't   go  wrong  raising   and 
selling
           vegetables.
 
                To start,  set  up a  commercial  tire garden  as 
described
           elsewhere in Volume 8. If you have a sunny back yard you've got
a
           commercial garden with raised beds made from used tires that
will
           last way past your lifetime, and at practically no cost.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                             (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973                
                         2 
 
 
 
 
 
                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
  
               You begin  your system with seeds,  naturally. First,
hybrid
           or  non-hybrid? If yours is just a  family garden and you want
to
           save seeds so you won't have  to buy new ones every season
you'll
           want  non-hybrid. But  for commercial  gardens, hybrid  seeds
are
           better. True, their  seeds won't reproduce  well next season 
but
           that  doesn't  matter.  The   vegetables  are  more  uniform 
and
           dependable and are bred for better taste,  resistance to
disease,
           pests, heat, etc.
 
                Now,  where should you buy  your seeds? Again,  if it's
just
           for a  family garden  and you  don't want to  wait, seeds 
bought
           locally  are usually fine. But if you  want top quality seeds
for
           top  quality vegetables  you'll order  them  from a  seed
company
           catering to commercial growers as well as the general public.
 
                There  are many seed companies  to choose from  and I'm
sure
           most  of  them are  good. My  choice,  however, is  Gurney's,
110
           Capital St.,  Yankton, SD 57059  (605) 665-1671. They've  been
in
           business for years and  have built up their tested stock  so
it's
           practically fail-safe. Besides, I think Gurney's is the
prettiest
           catalogue  and  so  well-illustrated.   It  also  gives  lots 
of
           information such as  approximate days to produce, yields,  etc.
A
           lot of the others do, too.
 
                Once  you've gotten your seeds, you can save several days
by
           sprouting  them.  If  you're  an  amateur  this  may  not  be 
an
           advantage.  But as you become skilled in the maximum use of
space
           and time, you'll see the plus side of sprouting.
 
                Some definite advantages  of sprouting seeds  before
potting
           or  even  starting them  outside  is  guaranteeing fertility 
and
           preventing  the need  for thinning.  Also, you  can  choose
those
           which sprout fastest and are bigger than the weaker sprouts.
 
                The best way to sprout seeds  is to use plastic, half
gallon
           milk cartons cut in half. You can use round, plastic butter
bowls
           and  such, also.  The best sprouting  medium I  know is  Hi
Yield
           vermiculite,  15 quarts for $2.49 at your garden store. Cover
the
           bottom of your  sprouter with one inch and place your seeds.
Then
           cover them with  about an inch and sprinkle with  water until
the
           Vermiculite is soaked. Be  sure to punch several pinholes  in
the
           bottom of the sprouter so the excess moisture will drain off.
 
                I prefer vermiculite as a sprouting medium because it's
firm
           enough to hold the sprouts upright but loose enough to allow
them
           to be pulled up without damaging  the rootlets.   When
sprouting,
           figure  how many plants  you need and  count out  twice that
many
           seeds. It's  a good idea  to make  out a label  for each  kind
of
           seed.  You'd be surprised how you can forget which seed is
which.
           You can use popsicle sticks, bought at any supermarket.
 
                             (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973                
                         3 
 
 
 
 
 
                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
 
                Now for the pots.  Peat pots are fine  but they cost. 
Also,
           don't be fooled by the ads. The roots don't always  go through
so
           you have to tear off the peat from around the sides  to make
sure
           the plants aren't root-bound.
 
                The best pot is  a free pot. What I  chose for free pots 
is
           the common  #15 tin can, from your grocery shelf. The # 15
stands
           for 15 ounces of liquid. They're just the right size, four
inches
           high and three inches across. On your growing table  they give
16
           pots per  square foot  of space. Of  course, as  the plants 
grow
           outward, you'll be separating them periodically.
 
                To  prepare your cans, soak  them to loosen  the paper.
Then
           cut out the bottoms. Tin cans rust so they must be painted.
Water
           base paint is  no good as  it doesn't stick  well. Color 
doesn't
           matter so  you can use up  that old oil base  paint you've
stored
           after  use. A  quart will  paint about  200 cans. A  gallon
about
           1,000. A gallon of the cheapest oil base paint costs about
$13.00
           at Wal-Mart.
 
                Painting is easy and quick. The cans have a layer of
varnish
           inside so you only have to paint the outside. Use a two-inch
wide
           brush  and have  some cheap  paint thinner  handy. It  takes
only
           about a  minute to paint  each can once  you get the  rhythm.
You
           don't need to be neat and you can even paint over rust spots.
 
                Stick  your hand through one end and dip the brush a
quarter
           inch into  the paint. Then swipe  both sides of the  brush on
the
           can  to prevent  dripping and  then paint  around both  ends.
Now
           paint the  rest and don't worry  about getting a bit  of paint
on
           your hand. A bit of  paint thinner when the job is  finished
will
           take  care of that. Although the insides don't need painting,
you
           might take  a swipe  at the  inside bottom where  the bare 
metal
           turns  in. These cans can be used  season after season Just
touch
           up any rust spots each season and they'll last indefinitely.
 
                One  of the  best potting  soils is  Organic Based 
Superior
           Potting Soil, 16 quarts from Wal-Mart. That will be enough for
51
           cans.  You don't fill  the cans all the way to the top. It's
best
           to  use a Campbell's  Soup can, 12  ounce. Fill this  and pour
it
           into the #15 can. The potting soil is slightly moist. To
transfer
           the  sprouts, stick your finger  down into the  soil, gently
pull
           the sprout from the  sprouter and stick  its root into the 
hole.
           Then push soil around the root let and water it immediately.
 
                As  for   watering  with   nutrients,  you  might  
consider
           Miracle-Gro  at  one teaspoon  per gallon.  There's no  reason
it
           wouldn't help the growth, although I haven't tested it yet.
 
 
 
                             (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973                
                         4 
 
 
 
 
 
                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
 
                Baby  vegetable  plants need  lots  of  light. Ideally, 
the
           potting cans should  be outside  in a sunny  area. However, 
they
           want a temperature of 60  to 65 degrees F. at night and  70 to
75
           degrees  F. in  the light. Under  or over  that, they  won't
grow
           well.
 
                You can easily grow your  sprouts and young plants 
indoors.
           All you need is a table in a corner. For lighting you need a
four
           foot shop  light with a  48 inch 40  watt fluorescent Gro  &
Show
           Plant Light.  The entire unit  costs about $30.00  from
Wal-Mart.
           The light should be adjustable and 6 to 12 inches above the
plant
           tops and should be lit from 12 to 16 hours out of the 24.
 
                                LIGHT, POTS AND SPROUTER
            Whatever table or  set of boards  you put your planters  on,
you
           don't  want  excess  water  dripping  on  the floor.  To 
prevent
           dripping,  spread sheet plastic over your table and cover it
with
           flattened cardboard  boxes from the  grocery. These will  soak
up
           and hold any excess water.
 
                Of course, you shouldn't over water the plants to the
extent
           that there is that much  excess anyway. The best way to  water
is
           with a two gallon watering can from Wal-Mart. The sprinkler
spout
           is too wide for planters so should be removed. The best way is
to
           cut a six-inch length of  clear plastic one-half-inch tubing 
and
           seal it in the spout with Goop.
 
                This  spout will  let you  poke into  each can and  water
it
           without any runoff to speak of. Also, you only have to water
once
           every few days.  Just be sure to stick your  finger into the
soil
           once in a  while to see  of it's moist, since  you don!t want 
to
           over water or let the soil get dry.
 
                When your plants get too  big for the pots or when  you
have
           garden  space, whichever comes first,  take them out  of the
pots
           and set them. I've  devised an easy way to do  this so there
will
           be no disturbance of the roots.
 
                The plant  and soil  has to be  pressed out and  set
without
           breaking  apart. The transplanter is made up of a Campbell's
Soup
           can and  a #15. Cut  the #15 down the  center and it  will
spring
           apart slightly.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                             (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973                
                         5 
 
 
 
 
 
                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
 
                               POT, SOUP CAN AND SLIT CAN
 
                To use it, take the pots to the garden area and put the
soup
           can  bottom-up near the planting  spot. Next put  the potting
can
           inside  the slit can. Then,  with one finger  on the potting
can,
           just between  the slit,  hold the slit  can with the  other
hand.
           Push the  potting can down  over the  soup can while  lifting
the
           slit can, keeping it abreast of the emerging soil. As the soil
is
           exposed,  squeeze the  slit  can to  hold the  soil in  place
and
           transfer  it to  the hole  prepared  for it.  The hole  should
be
           slightly deeper  and wider so there will be no disturbance to
the
           plant.
 
                If you adopt  this system  I guarantee you'll  have all 
the
           vegetables  you need and more, for little work and small
expense.
           I  suggest you use the tire garden method, described elsewhere
in
           Vol.  8. They are raised beds and  produce much more than the
row
           method, as you can put your plants closer together.
 
                If  you   have  the   space,  you  might   consider 
growing
           commercially. What with all the flooding and droughts,  you
can't
           go wrong growing food.
 
                You might not get six crops of many plants besides
radishes.
           But if  you try this system, you'll learn a lot and you'll
surely
           get much more production than you would get with the  more
common
           gardening methods. The proof  of this can be seen  in the
article
           that follows this one.
 
                Larry's secret marijuana garden shows what can be  done.
The
           process  works just  as well  for cucumbers  and tomatoes  as
for
           dope. Also, you might choose parts of his system over mine.
There
           are often several methods for getting the same results. Never
tie
           yourself to  one method,  as circumstances differ.  Besides,
once
           you master the general principles, you might even improve on
mine
           and Larry's.
 
                As  an  addition  to  the  tire   garden,  I  discovered 
an
           excellent, improvised trellis. All you have to do is make a
frame
           as if for tomatoes, with the concrete reinforcing wire. Then,
in-
           stead of hooking  it into a cylinder,  just let it expand 
around
           the inside of  the tire That way, it will  form a semi-circle
and
           be  as sturdy  and handy  a trellis  as you  would want  for
pole
           beans, etc.
 
  
           If you liked this article & would like access to books
containing
           similar material you can get a free illustrated catalog by
contact-
           ing  the address above. Or you may  have an ASCII text catalog
           e-mailed to you by request through CompuServe address:
75721,55.                    
           Or our America Online address: ATLANFORM      
                             (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973                
                         6 
 

From 72714.3044@CompuServe.COM Thu Sep 15 18:30:12 EDT 1994
Article: 22 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!george.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!compuserve.com!news
From: J Moschell <72714.3044@CompuServe.COM>
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: A Good Start
Date: 15 Sep 1994 07:12:05 GMT
Organization: via CompuServe Information Service
Lines: 107
Message-ID: <358s45$llc$1@mhade.inhouse.compuserve.com>

Some may wonder what survivalism is all about...

Here is a sample of what you need to get started on...
(This list is VERY, VERY, VERY incomplete)


COMMUNICATIONS
	SPANISH, OTHER LANGUAGES
	CODES AND ENCRYPTION
	ELECTRONICS
	SIGN LANGUAGE, OTHER HAND SIGNALS
	RADIO COMMUNICATIONS
	WRITTEN CODES
	CLASSIFIED ADS COMMUNICATION
	JAMMING RADIO SIGNALS
	WORKING IN JAMMED AREAS
	MORSE CODE

FARMING
	WILD FOODS
	HORSES, CARE AND RAISING
	PACK ANIMALS, LLAMAS, MULES, ETC.
	DOGS, ATTACK AND TRACKING
	ANIMAL HUSBANDRY
	SCATTER FARMING, NO ROWS
	INSECT CONTROL, 1800’S STYLE
	CROP ROTATION AND NATURAL FERTILIZERS

SURVIVAL
	TRAPPING, SURVIVAL TOPICS
	WATER AND FOOD FROM DIFFERENT ECO SYSTEMS
	SURVIVAL, VARIOUS TERRAINS AND AREAS
	WATER EXTRACTION AND PRESERVATION
	NUTRITION
	VIETNAMESE ARMY TACTICS
	SURVIVING NUCLEAR
	SURVIVING BIO-WARFARE
	SURVIVING CHEM-WARFARE

FIGHTING
	CHEMISTRY
	RELOADING
	GUNSMITHING
		SILENCERS
		FULL AUTO CONVERSION
	BOOBYTRAPS
	STEALTH TECHNIQUES
	EXPLOSIVES, REUSE HIGH EXPLOSIVES
	EXPLOSIVES FROM JUNK AND HOUSEHOLD ITEMS
	CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS FROM HOUSEHOLD ITEMS

1800’S LIFESTYLES
	FOOD PREPARATION
	FOOD PRESERVATION
	METAL WORKING
	BASKETWEAVING
	METALWORKING
	SEWING, MAKING CLOTH
	WOODWORKING
	HIDES TANNING
		
ORIENTEERING
	ASTRONOMY
	COMPASS CORRECTIONS
	NIGHTTIME ORIENTEERING
	COVERING YOUR TRAIL
	MOVING GREAT DISTANCES WITH NO SIGN

URBAN SURVIVAL
	LOCKSMITHING
	HOTWIRING AUTOS
	ALARM SYSTEMS
	HIGH SPEED DRIVING
	WEAPONS FROM JUNK
	BEATING INFRA RED DETECTION
	MOVING IN RUBBLE ENVIRONMENTS
	HIJACKING

CONSTRUCTION
	1800’S STYLE CONSTRUCTION
		LOG CONSTRUCTION
		HOMEMADE NAILS
	UNDERGROUND CONSTRUCTION
		EXCAVATION
		CONCEALMENT
		SUPPORT AND FRAMING
		AIR HANDLING
	THATCH CONSTRUCTION
	HOMEMADE CONCRETE
	HOMEMADE BRICKS
		BUILDING A KILN

MEDICINE
	CREATING MEDICINES
	HOME REMEDIES
	WILD FOODS AS MEDICINES
	FIRST AID
	LONG TERM TRAUMA CARE
	ACCUMULATE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS
	MEDICAL CARE IN THE ABSCENCE OF A DOCTOR


-- 
:             '''
:            (o o)
: +-----oOOO--(_)---OOOo-----+
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns have.

From Frank_Langham@ccmail.us.dell.com Fri Sep 16 04:28:27 EDT 1994
Article: 84 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.dell.com!news
From: Frank_Langham@ccmail.us.dell.com (Frank Langham)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: MORE SURVIVAL EQUALS
Date: 15 Sep 1994 16:50:03 GMT
Organization: Dell Computer Corp
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <359tvr$b9k@uudell.us.dell.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: flangham.us.dell.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.5

ADD "KNOWLEDGE" or "LIBRARY" to the list... build a good library
for reference... Start with a few good general guides and periodically
cart all your old Survival/Sufficiency periodicals out to your country
"hide" whenever you go to visit.  So... We now have.

* Knowledge (library) ...car trunk or retreat facility.

* Water (the means to clean/store/disinfect/acquire)

* Food (MRE/Dehydrated/etc)

* Security (Guns and the means to conceal YOURSELF...Optics..partners)

* FIRST AIDE (Supplies/Manuals/Training)

* AIR (gas-masks, etc...I, personally, don't think this is critical)

Anything else which is FUNDAMENTAL??? (KEEP IT SIMPLE, PLEASE!)

...Comments/Additions?
=Frank=


From abrez@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Fri Sep 16 04:38:03 EDT 1994
Article: 107 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!abrez
From: abrez@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Aaron Brezenski)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Ratings system...
Date: 15 Sep 1994 20:20:14 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston IL
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <35aa9u$nh8@news.acns.nwu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen1.acns.nwu.edu

A couple posts have stressed the need for PRIORITIES: what's more important, a
gun or a can opener, a radio or surplus blankets.

I propose a ratings system for use within the group, something which could
allow someone to post: "I think, in an urban survival situation, guns and ammo
should be a category 2 item." and everyone could tell what they were saying,
rather than having to describe the conditions under which items would be
necessary.  I'm thinking of something like

Rating     Description

1          Absolutely Necessary
2          Necessary
3          Important
4          Useful
5          Luxury
6          Stupid
7          Dangerous

I'm new at this, so let the flames begin!!!




Aaron Brezenski
"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there's not someone out to get me."

Card-Carrying Member of the Illuminati
"If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science.  It is opinion."
"... what are the facts, and to how many decimal places?"



From atlanform@aol.com Sun Mar 12 16:23:46 EST 1995
Article: 7714 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Special Atlan BBS Intro Pack
Date: 19 Feb 1995 02:57:54 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 166
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3i6tm2$1ls@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Dear  Sir,
      I realize that the below is dreadful E-net "manners" being a "bar
faced" ad & all, but I figured I'd give it a shot to see where it might
land.
I'll wholey understand if you don't use the item below. But I live by that
old axiom "nothing ventured ect..."  Whatever you decide I want to thank
you now for your time & attention.

Sincerely Yours,
Mr. Cary Jeffries

P.S. I am an employ of Kurt Saxon & he wishes me to inform you that we can
send a disk full of his works if you are at all interested. He may be
contacted anytime during business hours CST any day of the week.


                 $$$ SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER for BBS users: $$$
 
           Title                                Regular Cost
    * All 4 volumes of the Survivor (1864 pages)    $80.00
   * Poor Man's James Bond Vol.1 (477 pages)       $20.00
   * Subscription to U.S. Militia   $35.00
   * Subcription to Shoestring Entrepreneur        $15.00
  
     If purchased  separately  & shipped via UPS  all of the above the
would  
     cost $175.00 ($200.00 outside the U.S.). Special BBS introductory
offer   
     price for all of the above is $100 .00 + $7.00 postage, $15.00 ouside
the 
     U.S. or $10.00 UPS ($15.00 to  Alaska & Hawaii). Call or write the 
     address below for UPS over seas shipping costs.
 
                                     ATLAN FORMULARIES
                            PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
                             (501) 437-2999 - FAX 437-2973
                               CompuServe Address: 75721,55
 
    <<< DESCRIPTIONS >>>
 
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           U.S. MILITIA (The only magazine for community defense)
           (12 80-Page Issues - $35.00)
           U.S. MILITIA trains people to protect themselves and their
           neighbors. Articles in the first issue are: The Four Winds
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Intelligence
           Interrogation, Super Jujitsu, The M1 30-06 Garand, etc. U.S.
           MILITIA will enable any community to secure itself against the
           chaos ravaging so many communities in our nation and is also a
           blueprint for profit for everyone involved. Subscribers begin
           with Issue One I current issues quarterly) and qualify for 10%
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           SHOESTRING ENTREPRENEUR (The best journal for home business)
           (12 40-Page Issues - $15.00)
           ENTREPRENEUR is like THE SURVIVOR, but emphasizes selling what
           you make or grow. As the economy worsens you may lose your job,
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your
           job may go to Mexico. ENTREPRENEUR shows you how to turn your
           basic abilities into a career. You may not be well-educated but
           you can become skilled. Your skill, whether in woodworking,
           mechanics, growing plants, raising animals etc., can assure
           comfort, security, even wealth as you apply yourself, and at
           little expense. ENTREPRENEUR features simple trades, cottage
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           available back issues of THE SURVIVOR free. Also, subscribers
get
           10% off on all Atlan books and trades.
 
 
 
 
                                  THE SURVIVOR SERIES:
           The Survivor - Volume 1
           (8 1/2 x 11, 480 Pages - $20.00)
           Money Making & Saving; Hundreds of ideas for Cottage Industry,
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           Home. Surviving a Nuclear Winter. Make Soy Milk, Sprouts, Tofu.
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Make
           a I or 2 Horsepower Windmill I from Strap. Foot-Powered Lathe.
           Make See-Through Mirrors. Black Powder; How to Make the Best.
Set
           Up a Home Foundry. Build Concrete Furniture.
 
           The Survivor - Volume 2
           (8 1/2 x 11, 464 Pages - $20.00)
           More trades, hobbies, crafts, 19th Century science. This volume
           also completes the total reprinting of Dick's 1872 Encyclopedia
           of Formulas and Processes. Full instructions in the trades of
           Dying, Soap-Making, Liquors, Perfumery, Cosmetics, Cements,
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in
           this volume: THE TANKS ARE COMING - complete course in soil
less
           growing, inside or outside. GUIDE TO RADIO CONTROL.
 
           The Survivor - Volume 3
           (8 1/2 x 11, 464 Pages - $20.00)
           Two sensitive Lie Detectors, Generating Current for
           Electroplating, Making Gunpowder in 1861, Steam Driven Airplane
           from 1933, Solar Power of the Past, Wind Driven Battery
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           Homemade Labware, Small Engine Power Plant, Knife Throwing,
Food
           Drying Homemade Stroboscope, Welder's Bench from Scrap, Wire
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and
           Toys from the 1920's, Raising Rabbits for Wool, Science Entries
           from Chambers Encyclopedia of 1891 and much, more.
 
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           (8 1/2 x 11, 464 Pages - $20.00)
           Complete  Test  of  MACKENZIE'S  TEN  THOUSAND   RECEIPTS, 
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           Fantastic  collection of  19th  Century  formulas and 
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           Homemade  Fallout Meter, Wind  Driven Generator,  Arc Welding,
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           Motors, Insect  Electrocutors,  Casting in  Plaster  and 
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           Raising   Goats,   Raising   Goats,  Toy   Making   for  
Profit.
 
 
 
 
                           THE POOR MAN'S JAMES BOND SERIES:
 
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           WE Accept VISA or MasterCard
 

From: ATLAN FORMULARIES, 75721,55
To: Mark Patrick Yanoff, 75504,2207
Date: Thu, Feb 16, 1995, 2:58 PM
RE: Catalog request

Here is the catalog that you requested.



From diogenes@smartdocs.com Sun Mar 12 16:24:32 EST 1995
Article: 7709 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.rain.org!warp10.smartdocs.com!smartdocs.com!diogenes
From: diogenes@smartdocs.com
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Survival Training Programs in California
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 11:48:45
Organization: Smart DOCS Internet Service (805) 294-1273
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Message-ID: <diogenes.11.000BD008@smartdocs.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm82.smartdocs.com
Keywords: Survival, Wilderness, Ron Hood
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

If you are looking for a good place to learn about wilderness survival during 
extended (8 Day) adventures take a look at the Hoods Woods Home page.

http://www.smartdocs.com:80/~diogenes/index.htm

I think that you may find it interesting.....


From markl@dcdmbl.fnal.gov Sun Mar 12 16:25:07 EST 1995
Article: 7702 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!not-for-mail
From: markl@dcdmbl.fnal.gov (Mark Leininger)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,alt.rec.camping,misc.survivalism
Subject: Wilderness adventure/training school Ad
Date: 19 Feb 1995 12:19:11 -0600
Organization: Fermilab, Batavia IL USA
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.backcountry:67471 alt.rec.camping:1240 misc.survivalism:7702

I have taken several wilderness training classes from a company in Wisconsin
called the Pathfinder Wilderness Adventure Schoool which others may
find interesting. I have entered the text of the company's advertising
brochure below. I am not affiliated with the company or compensated
in any way, I'm just a satisfied student.

Mark Leininger, Fermilab Computing Division  markl@fnal.gov
CDF Portacamps, Office 149o
708.840.4776   FAX 708.840.2968
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Pathfinder Standard Courses (3 days, $175.00)

* Wilderness Skills: For beginners or veteran outdoor enthusiasts. This
  course is designed to provide students with the important skills
  of shelter building, water procurement, firemaking, edible and
  medicinal plant recognition and stalking techniques. Survival 
  philosophy and a Sweat Lodge Ceremony are aslo included in this
  unique action-packed weekend.

* Land Navigation: Pathfinder trains individuals to lead not follow.
  Get off the trail and know your location with pinpoint accuracy by
  learning terrain features, celestial navigation, map and compass
  reading, plotting your position and your direction of travel. You
  will find no other detailed course like this one outside the U.S. 
  Military. This dynamic course takes place at the Pathfinder base camp
  and beautiful Devil's Lake State Park.

Pathfinder Advanced Courses (3 days, $200)

* Advanced Skills I: For students seeking additional training in the 
  following dynamic skills: Tracking, camouflage, stealth techniques,
  cordage making, foraging, hide tanning and nature observation.

* Advanced Skills II: Students will learn advanced tracking skills,
  primitive weapons, archery, tomahawk throwing, the black powder
  rifle, and advanced stealth techniques.

* Advanced Skills III: This course will focus on overcoming physical
  obstacles in the outdoors. Students will learn rope management, climbing,
  rappelling, rope bridge construction, suspension traverse, and emergency
  litters.

Pathfinder High Adventure Courses

* ATTACC (American Teen Training and Confidence Course): 5 days, $400.00.
  For ages 12-17, the objective of ATTACC is to train teenagers, through
  positive motivation, primitive and modern outdoor skills.  Tracking, edible
  plants, land navigation, and mountaineering are combined in synthesis, a
  style unique to Pathfinder.  ATTACC is youth high adventure at its zenith
  where each student learns practical skills and develops leadership traits
  and responsibility.  In this one-week couse, students will focus on
  overcoming outdoor challenges individually and as a team. 


* Desert and Mountain Expeditions: 7 days, $975 
  Experience the desert or the Rocky Mountains while learning a unique
  blend of camping and wilderness skills. These one week expeditions include
  tracking, land navigation, mountaineering, wildlife photography, horseback
  riding and much more. Students will not be "playing" Frontiersman,
  they will be living it!

* Pathfinder Ranger Course: 4 days, $675. This course is designed for those
  students seeking the ultimate thrill in wilderness training. This
  high-velocity, three day course includes survival skills, land navigation,
  mountaineering, marksmanship, and evasion techniques. The Ranger course is
  the most comprehensive of all the weekend programs as well as the most
  challenging.  Therefore, students must be in good physical condition and
  highly motivated to learn these advanced skills.

Pathfinder Specialty Courses

* Winter Camping Skills: 3 days, $200. Listen to the sound of coyotes or
  wolves on a clear winter night.  Finding comfort in harsh conditions is
  the mark of a true woodsman.  This class, conducted in the North woods, will
  teach students how to build shelters, start natural fires, track animals,
  and prepare wilderness meals over a campfire.  This is a truly exciting
  winter experience. 

* Wildlife Photography: 3 days, $200. See how close you can get to a
  Whitetail deer!  For those individuals who enjoy hunting with a camera,
  this is an excellent opportunity to learn skills used by professional
  photographers.  The emphasis of this course is placed on stealth,
  camouflage, movement in nature, and wildlife habits, mainly of the
  Whitetail.  In this course you will learn skills unknown to many hunters.
  The course is limited to six students who will lodge in the cozy Pathfinder
  log cabin. 

One Day Seminars (one day, $60)

* Winter Animal Tracking: This exciting seminar will familiarize students with
  animal tracks and identification in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. 
  Students will learn track patterns and habits as they actually stay on the
  fresh trail of deer, coyote and other animals. This seminar will be 
  conducted on Saturdays in January and February at Cuba Marsh, 9:00am-3:00pm.
  Lunch is included afterwards at a local inn.

* Edible and Medicinal Plants: Knowledge of plants can be a determining
  factor in a survival situation. Familiarize yourself with the wild plants
  of the Midwest at the Half-day nature preserve. This practical class will
  focus on the life-giving qualities of over 25 species of plants and trees.
  The seminar meets 9:00am-4:00pm. 

Thomas Dorsch, Director
Pathfinder Wilderness Adventure School
PO Box 616
Wisconsin Dells, WI  53965
800.BUCKSKIN


From decastro@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:25:33 EST 1995
Article: 7703 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Books.List rev 0.16
Message-ID: <decastroD49FwF.DCo@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:41:02 GMT
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                        Survival Books, rev 0.16

Disclaimer:  Most reviews are written by the people who submit them to
me.  I only edit for style, punctuation and spelling (eventually).  I
really wouldn't like to get any flames if you disagree with the contents
of a review, if you don't like it, write another one and I'll include it
also.

General.  Books are listed (at a minimum)  by Title and Author, which
should be sufficient to find them in a library or bookstore.  I never
liked doing bibliographical information in my writing in school, and I'm
not going to do it here.  You're welcome to add your own information, if
you feel it's needed.

Also, many of the books listed are old.  Many date back to the heydays
of the survivalist movement in the seventies, some (especially the works
of Bradford Angier) are even older.  And of course, many very old books,
those from the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries, would have many good
ideas.  So, some of these books are not in print, your library might
have them, or should be able to get them via an interlibrary loan. Also,
check used book stores, garage sales, swapmeets and the like, you never
know what you might find.

Changes in rev 0.16:  Added additional books.


                        LOOKING FOR INFORMATION

Is there any worthwhile software that should be indexed?  If so, let's
discuss it in misc.survivalism, and I'll post it.

Anything that would fit into an existing catagory, or is similar to an
existing book.

Books about natural and/or homeopathic medicine

Shooting, Reloading, Making improvised weapons

Mail Order sources of books or catlogs

Alternative energy  including especially solar, micro-hydro and
geothermal energy sources.

Communications

Alternative Homebuilding

Alternative power systems

Sources of Training

????  --  If you know of a book to include here, please email me with
it's name and author, and a brief (1 or 2 sentence) description of it.
I'll compile and post them.  Send to decastro@netcom.com

Please do NOT send me anything in MIME format, if you can possibly avoid
it.  Also, please don't send me anything that's copyrighted.  If you are
the legitimate copyright holder, and are willing to place the
information in the public domain by posting it to a public newsgroup
with a suitable release, I'll be glad to incorporate it into this list -
otherwise, it's not public domain, and I won't.






                Non-Fiction Informational, Instructional
                         or Inspirational Books

_COOKING, WILD FOODS AND FOOD PRESERVATION_

Back to Basics Copyright 1981 The Reader's Digest Association, Inc. ISBN
0-89577-086-5.  Information on food storage and cooking.

The African Housewife And Her Home, by Esther Ko-eune. A book about
setting up and running a basic homestead, simply written to help people
who want to transition from semi-nomadic tribal life to settled
agriculture. Wonderfully to-the-point about compound layout, sanitation
and health, cooking and nutrition, clothesmaking and sickroom care.
[Eagle Press, 1952, printed at Nairobi]

"The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Charlie Papazian. ISBN
0-380-76366-4 "The Complete Handbook of Brewing" by Dave Miller.
Both books cover all of the bases. The Miller book is considered the
more "hardcore" of the two in terms of brewing from scratch, while the
Papazian book (actually he has a companion book out now, the name of
which currently escapes me) is more entertaining and is equally useful
to homebrewers of all experience levels.

Cooking with Home Storage, by Vicki Tate, is much more modern but
requires many more items to be stocked.  It has lots of simple recipes
and even home remedies.  It is available from Vicki Tate at:
1-801-835-8283.  Her audio tape on this topic is quite motivational.

Diet for a Small Planet, by Frances Moore Lappe, a million sold by 1975,
and still selling well. ISBN 0-345-27429-6.  THE classic. Half text
which explains the efficiency of grain consumption instead of animal
consumption. This approach could end world hunger.  Includes a good set
of recipes and guidance in balancing needed amino acids when avoiding
meat. In tuff times, we may all need this kind of efficiency.  Related
books are: Recipes for a Small Planet, by Ellen Buchman Ewald, 1973.
Food First, Beyond the Myth of Scarcity, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc.
1977. World Hunger, Twelve Myths, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc. 1986.

More-with-Less Cookbook, by Doris Janzen Longacre, suggestions by
Mennonites on how to eat better and consume less of the world's limited
food resources.  1976  Simple recipes. Lots of info on substitutions for
ingredients you don't have.  Breads, cereals, meat, soup, veggies,
complementary protein, allowances for energy and protein, garden, costs.
The recipes I have tried worked very well, including substitutions.

The Sprouter's Cookbook, for Fast Kitchen Crops, by Marjorie Page
Blanchard. 1975, Garden Way, ISBN: 0-88266-041-1  How to grow sprouts
with lots of recipes.  This is the way to get fresh veggies from long
term storage.

The Book of Whole Grains, by Marlene Anne Bumgarner, The Grain-by-Grain
Guide to Cooking, Growing, and Grinding Whole Cereals, Nuts, Peas, and
Beans. Here is where I found my favorite cookies.  I've had good luck
with the crackers and cereals.  Compares essential Amino Acid Contents
of all the grains, beans, nuts, and peas in chart form.  Discusses
grinders. 1976. ISBN:  0-312-09420-7.

The Grains Cookbook, by Bert Greene, 1988, ISBN: 0-89480-612-2 Many
recipies from around the world.  Great variety.

Wheat for Man, Why and How, with Recipes Developed Expressly for the Use
of Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour, by Vernice G. Rosenvall, etc. 1952 to
1982. ISBN: 0-88494-282-1.  If you store wheat, here is what to do with
it.

Make a Treat with Wheat, Recipes using Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour,
Cracked Wheat, and Whole Wheat, by Hazel Richards, 1968. Cereal,
including babies cereal, breads, rolls cakes, cookies, casseroles. This
can make storage food more fun.

The Taming of the CANDY* Monster, *=Continuously Advertised
Nutritionally Deficient Yummies, By Vicki Lansky, 1978.  How to replace
'junk foods'

Dutch Oven Secrets. Hopkins, Lynn.  Bountiful, Utah : Horizon
Publishers, c1990.  ISBN 0-88290-372-1.  This book has detailed
instructions on how to use your oven, and plenty of good recipes.  There
are also sections on cooking for large groups, and the use of a dutch
oven in a home food-storage program.

Edible Wild Plants, by Oliver Perry Medsger Covers all of North America,
describing over 150 of the most promising species and their habitats.
This is an old-style plant book; you will need a dictionary to decode
the botanical jargon. There are ample pen-and-ink illustrations and a
few photos. A charming feature is that the author includes a bit of the
lore and romance of the plants he describes, "...when [John] Franklin
was reduced to starvation in the Arctic regions, Rock Tripe was said to
have saved his life. It is often eaten by Canadian hunters and Indians
when food is scarce."

Essentials of Home Production and Storage, 1978, by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints.  A short (28-page) pamphlet that outlines a
method for determining what foods to store, and how to store them.
Interesting and basic information, it also contains an extensive
bibilography of related books.  It should be available from a local LDS
Church or Stake center, or book distributor.  Ask an LDS member.

The Herb Book by Lust, John B. (1974) ISBN 0-87904-007-6 Extensive
compilation of hundreds of herbs, with line drawings, descriptions,
growth ranges, parts used and uses.  Techniques of herbal medicine,
appendices of cross references of common to Latin botanical names,
extensive index.  Just about "the" book on herbology, after Culpepper's.

Kitchen Magic (How to use your food storage grains everyday) by Deanna
Smith Sudweeks, and Suzanna Smith Welton, published by Hawkes Publishing
inc, 3775 S. 500 West (PO box 15711) SLC, Utah, 84115

Old-Fashioned Dutch Oven Cookbook. Holm, Don.    Caldwell, Ohio :
Caxton, 1989, c1969.  ISBN 87004-133-9.  Also covers basic dutch oven
care and use, and lots of dutch oven recipes.  Emphasises wild game
(dutch ovens can turn an old boot into a tender, tasty meal!)  Includes
information on gutting, skining, and boning game, sourdough cooking, and
drying and/or smoking meat.  Also has a chapter on the eating habits of
the Lewis and Clark expedition (and man, did they ever eat!)

Old Fashioned Recipe Book, by Carla Emery.  A discussion of life under
less "civilized" conditions, including making butter and butchering
animals.

Passport to Survival, by Esther Dickey, Four Foods and More to Use and
Store, is the classic book of very basic food storage and use.  It
focuses on wheat, salt, honey, and powdered milk.  It has many recipes
with just these four and water.  Also includes storage, fun foods, and
outdoor cooking with these basic ingredients.

Peterson's Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants

Putting Food By Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan, Janet Greene.  How to
preserve foods, including salting and pickling.

Stocking Up, the book published by the Rodale Institute, also has some
info, perhaps even information on curing w/o nitrates.

Uprisings, the Whole Grain Bakers Book, by the Cooperative Whole Grain
Educational Association, 1990.  ISBN 0-913990-70-1.  Recipes for
whole-grain cooking.



_CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES_

Adobe Build it Yourself, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1985, Univ of Arizona
Press, 0-8165-0984-4

Adobe and Rammed Earth Buildings, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1984, Univ of
Arizona Press, 0-8165-1124-1

Alex Wade's Guide to Affordable Houses, Alex Wade 1984, Rodale Press,
0-87857-511-1

Alternative House Building, Mike McClintock 1984, Popular Science Books,
0-943822-39-4

A Place of Your Own Making, Stephen Taylor 1988, Henry Holt,
0-8050-0364-9

Build a Yurt: The Low-Cost Mongolian Round House by Len Charney, 1974,
Collier Books (a division of Macmillan Publishing), 0-02-079320-0.

Building Underground, Herb Wade 1983, Rodale Press, 0-87857-421-2

Cordwood Masonry Houses, Robert L. Roy

New Compact House Designs published in 1991 by Storey Communications,
Inc. They were by a design firm called Rammed Earth Works, P.O. Box
5006, Napa, CA 94581.

Dwelling on Earth.  A Manual for the Professional Application of
Earthbuilding Techniques", David Easton.  The book has about 200 pages,
has no copyright date, no publisher, no location.  We purchased it from
the Real Goods catalog. Very good instruction manual for DIY building.

Earthbuilders' Encylopedia (current price S$20.50) and Adobe Codes,
(US$7.95) covers the codes concerning building adobes in Arizona, New
Mexico, Texas, and some California details.  With the exception of
details, most codes were modeled after the New Mexico codes which have
also been accepted as U.B.C.  Available from: Southwest Solaradobe
School P.O. Box 153 Bosque, New Mexico 87006

Timber Reduced Energy Efficient Homes (aka TREE homes) at US$17.95, by
Ed Paschich and Paula Hendricks, @1994.  Published by:  Sunstone Press,
P.O. Box 2321, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2321.  This book has some
execellent sections on total environmental impact of the materials
selected and used for building either an adobe or an equivlant frame
home.

DESIGN OF STRUCTURES TO RESIST NUCLEAR WEAPONS EFFECTS; American Society
of Civil Engineers; ASCE Manuals and Reports on Engineering Practice No.
42; c1985; ACSE 345 East 47th St., NY, NY  10017-2398

Earth Sheltered Habitat, Gideon S. Golany 1983, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-22993-3

Earth Sheltered Housing, Max Riterman  1985, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-28287-7

Earthships, Vols. I, II, III, Michael Reynolds  Solar Survival Press

The Electricians Toolbox Manual, by Rex Miller, 1989, published by
ARCOS/Simon and Schuster, distributed by Prentice Hall,  ISBN
0-13-247701-7.  A small sized book full of good information on
electrical wiring, the National Electrical Code, and related issues.
Seems especially good for do-it-yourselfers who are unsure about the
specifics of wiring.  Section on tools, NEC, etc.

The $50 and Up Underground House Book, 4th edition by Mike Oehler,
Illustrations by Chris Royer, Mole Publishing Company/Van Nostrand
Reinhold Company, New York, 1981, ISBN: 0-442-27311-8, 116pp. How to
build an underground house using a shovel, polyethylene, and a chainsaw
with a milling attatchment.  Reasons for going underground. Different
approach to design:  face uphill, use lots of windows for light.

The Good House: Building a Life on the Land, Richard Manning

The Handyman's Book, Tools, Materials & Processes Employed in
Woodworking, by Paul N. Hasluck, 760pp, wi 2,545 illustrations and
working drawings, ISBN 0-89815-203-8, published by 10-Speed Press, P.O.
Box 7123, Berkeley, CA  94707. 1987.  Originally published in 1903.
$11.95.  Aside from being a true bargain in book prices, this is a
remarkable book in hand crafting almost anything from wood, using only
hand tools.  Includes drawings for various items such as furniture,
outbuildings, homes, tool boxes, etc. and a detailed description of the
selection, use, maintenance and care of hand tools.

The Independant Home, subtitled "Living Well with Power from the Sun,
Wind and Water", Michael Potts, ISBN 0-930031-65-2.   Available from
Real Goods.

Money Saving Strategies for the Owner/Builder, Robert L. Roy 1981,
Sterling, 0-8069-7548-2

Mother's Home Building & Shelter Guide, The Editors of TMEN 1983, Mother
Earth News, 0-938-432-03-6

The NEW Solar Electric Home, Joel Davidson 1987, Aatec, 0-937948-09-8

This Old House Guide to Building and Remodeling Materials, by Bob Villa
and Norm Abram, 1986, Warner Books ISBN 0-446-38246-9.  Few construction
techniques, per se, but lots of good information about materials to
build or rebuild structures with.  Also a good section on tools.

The Owner Built Home, Ken Kern 1972, 75, Scribners, 0-684-14226-6

Passive Annual Heat Storage by John Hait and The Rocky Mountain Research
Center, 1983, 152pp.  Available from Whole Earth Access. Use
polyethylene and insulation to maintain a constant year round
temperature in the immediate area around an underground house.

Practical Electrical Wiring by Richter & Schwan is the best that I've
seen on the subject for a homeowner. Updated with the advent of new NEC,
it is clear for the tyro and the pro alike! I don't know who publishes
it anymore, but it beats the pants off its competition!

Underground Houses, Robert L. Roy

Your Affordable Solar Home, Dan Hibshmann 1983, Sierra Club Books,
0-87156-327-4

How to build an underground house; Underground Designs; Underground
Plans Book; and A Tiny Underground House; all by Malcolm Wells and
available for a nominal ($7 - $14) cost from Malcolm Wells, Underground
Art Gallery, 673 Satucket Road,Brewster,MA 02631

These designs are all underground homes which look like something out of
the Architectural Record. They are breathtakingly beautiful, not some
survivalist bunker sort of thing.



_FIREARMS AND PRIMITIVE WEAPONS, DEFENSIVE TECHNIQUES_

Cooper on Handguns, by Jeff Cooper.  The classic book on firearms
selection, training and use.

Defending your Retreat, Delta Press.

Principles of Personal Defense, Jeff Cooper.

Shoot Out, by Tony Lesce.  A book on firearms self-defense.  Not as good
as some others.

Small Arms of the World, Ezell et al, Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, PA
The guide to most small arms of the world .22LR to .50CAL

The Survival Armory, by Duncan Long.  1994, Desert Publications.  A
current listing of survival weapons, not as good in theoretical aspects
as Tappan's Survival Guns, but more current in available weapons and
accessories.  I'd recommend reading after Survival Guns, but still a
good addition to the Survival Library.

Survival Guns, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A somewhat
dated, but still very valid, analysis of weapons (not just firearms) for
use in long and short term survival situations.

The Survival Retreat by Ragnar Benson.  "A total plan for retreat
defense".


_FIRST AID AND MEDICAL TREATMENT_

The Bantam Medical Dictionary, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-22673-8.  A
laymans medical dictionary.

Ditch Medicine, Richard L. Coffee, published by Paladin Press, Boulder,
Co 1993 ISBN  0-873464-717-3.  An excellent guide for pre-hospital care
givers in treatment of trauma associated with conflict, especially
penetrating trauma and burns.  Covers wound closure, infection control,
chest injuries, pain control during operative procedures, burns, etc.
Not a first-aid book, presupposes a fairly broad medical exposure.

Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, by the
American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.  The classic textbook for
Emergency Medical Technicians, sometimes called the "Orange Book".

Gray's anatomy.  Even the old editions, or the reprints of the "classic"
editions are worthwhile.  A very good text on human anatomy and
physiology, highly recommended.

Dr. Cohen's Healthy Sailor Book, by Michael Martin Cohen, M.D. Even if
you're too smart ever to get in a boat, you'll find good material on
such topics as hypothermia and dehydration, motion sickness, skin
problems, and psychological aberrations induced by isolation and
fatigue. Good writeup of how to mix up rehydration solutions for
diarrhea victims, using commonplace ingredients.

How to be Your Own Doctor (Sometimes), by Sehnert.  A good guide on
deciding if you need a doctor or not.

Hypothermia, Frostbite and Other Cold Injuries, Wilkerson, M.D., Bangs,
M.D., Hayward, M.D.

Hypothermia: Killer of the Unprepared, by Theodore G. Lathrop, M.D.  A
thin pamphlet published by The Mazamas, a climbing group.  Case studies,
warning signs and prevention advice. This was a sort of cult classic in
the seventies, among outdoorsy types. It pulls no punches and no doubt
has saved some lives. Quick, effective way to become clued about this
lethal problem.

Mangement of Wilderness and Environmental Emergencies, by Auerbach and
Geeher.  A medical textbook (warning) discussing simple and advanced
treatments.

Medicine for Mountaineering, published by the Mountaineers.  A good
intermediate-duration care book, with heavy emphasis on the mountains
and the problems of them.

Medicine for the Outdoors: A Guide to Emergency Medical Procedures
and First Aid   by Paul S. Auerbach, M.D. (revised and updated)
1991 Little Borwn and Company  ISBN 0-316-05931.  400 pages of
information about emergency procedures that laypeople can do
effectively.

The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Treatment, published by Merck.  The
classic diagnostic medical book, heavy on drug treatments rather than
surgical interventions.  A new edition is released every four or five
years.

Outdoor Emergency Care, by Bowman.  The National Ski Patrol emergency
medical text.  More applicable to emergency care in less than urban
situations.

The Physicians' Desk Reference (aka The PDR) 2497 pages Published by
Medical Economics Data Division of Medical Economics Co., Inc. Oradell
NJ  07649  Order by mail: Physicians' Desk Reference Reference P.O. box
10689 Des Moines, IA  50336 Order by fax: (515) 284-6714
This is a good _illustrated_ reference work about prescription drugs.
Could help in identifying any drugs found or procured in a survival
situation. My 1991 copy cost around $50 but since it's published every
year you could probably get last year's free from a friendly doctor or
nurse (they don't usually save the old ones).

Ships Medicine Chest and First Aid at Sea  published by the USPHS for
(mostly) the merchant marine.  Covers prescription drugs (legal and
technical), lists of drugs and material for different sizes ships.  Good
coverage of death, though burial at sea may not be an option for most.
Good disease section (including VD), doesn't assume a bunch of healthy
males such as some of the wilderness books.  The section on getting
medical advise over HF radio from the USPHS may be worth it's weigh in
gold for Hams.

Special Forces Medical Handbook.  This is a reprint of a US Army
training handbook, and covers many medical techniques as they apply to
unconventional operations.  Chapters on sterilizing under field
conditions, and field dentistry and obstetrics are especially good.

Wilderness Medicine 4th ed.  by William  Forgey  MD  covers  many common
medical problems, suggests med's for kits, assumes no doc- tor or EMS is
available.  Best of all, written  for  the  layman. Very good book.

Where there is no Doctor by ?  Originally a manual for Chinese village
health aides, good and modern information for life in a western world,
without all of the resources.

_GARDENING, FOOD GROWING AND FARMING_

Backyard Bonanza...an introduction to intensive gardening. By the
editors of Organic Gardening Magazine, and printed by Rodale.  Short
(<50 pp.) but effective intro to high-yield growing beds. I saw no
mention of ways the investigating varmints can be used to increase the
nutrition value of a gardening effort <g>, but that's Rodale for you

Bardswell, Frances A.  The Herb Garden, with illustrations by the Hon.
Florence Amherst and Isabelle Forrest.  London:  Adam & Charles Black,
1911.  Hard cover, 173 pages, index, tables, paste-in color
illustrations.  $20

Buchman, Dian Dincin.  Herbal Medicine:  The Natural Way to Get Well and
Stay Well.  New York:  Gramercy, 1980.  Hard cover with DJ, 310 pages,
index, drawings, list of resources.  $12

Fox, Helen M.  My Years in My Herb Garden.  New York:  MacMillan, 1953;
first printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, index, very good
condition.  $9

Freeman, Margaret B.  Herbs for the Mediaeval Household, for Cooking,
Healing and Divers Uses.  New York:  The Metropolotian Museum of Art,
1943.  Hard cover, 48 pages, illustrated with drawings.  Excellent
condition.  $9

Gibbons, Euell.  Stalking the Wild Asparagus:  Field Guide Edition.  A
field guide to edible wild plants.  New York: David McKay, 1972;
reprint.  Paper, 303 pages, excellent condition.  $6

Complete Book of Composting by ? (boring, but informative)

Grow it! by Richard Langer

Growing Food in Solar Greenhouses by Delores Wolfe (all the folks up
North)

Kadans, Joseph M.  Modern Encyclopedia of Herbs:  A comprehensive,
practical, up-to-date reference work covering hundreds of herbs:  common
names, cooking uses, botanical names, cosmetic uses, growing conditions,
medical uses.  New York:  Parker Publishing, 1970.  Hard cover with dust
jacket, 256 pages, cross-referenced index.  Very good condition.  $12

Medsger, Oliver Perry.  Edible Wild Plants.  New York:  McMillan, 1954.
Hard cover with DJ, 323 pages, photos, drawings, index, index of
scientific names.  $14

Miloradovich, Milo.  The Home Garden Book of Herbs & Spices:  The
complete handbook on growing, preparing and preserving all culinary
herbs and spices--for the gardener, the homemaker, and the gourmet.
Garden City, NY:  Doubleday, 1952.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 236
pages, index, list of botanical names.  $10

Pond, Barbara.  A Sampler of Wayside Herbs:  Rediscovering Old Uses For
Familiar wild Plants; illustrated by Edward and Marcia Norman.  New
York: Greenwich House, 1974.  Hard cover with DJ, index, bibliography,
color and B&W drawings and paintings, 126 pages.  Excellent condition.
$14

How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons (great book, I'm currently
using guidelines for my backyard garden)

Ramsbottom, John.  Edible Fungi, with colour plates by Rose Ellenby.
London:  Penguin, 1948.  Hard cover, 45 pages, 24 color plates.
Excellent condition.  $7

Ranson, Florence.  British Herbs.  Harmondsworth:  Penguin Books, 1949.
Paper, 203 pages, illustrated with photos and drawings.  Excellent
condition.   $6

Rohde, Eleanour Sinclair.  Herb Gardening.  London:  Medici Society,
1945; 2nd printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 206 pages, illustrated
with drawings, color & B&W photos.  Very good condition.  $9

Taylor, George M.  British Herbs and Vegetables.  London:  Collins,
1947.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 48 pages, color and B&W photos and
drawings.  $8

Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew (1981 Rodale Press
0-87857-341-0). Read it.

ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping from the A.I.Root library

The Hive and the Honey Bee from Dadant Publications

How to Make $100000 farming 25 Acres by Wheatly

Successful Small Sacle Farming by Schwenke

The Contrary Farmer by Gene Lodgson

Christmas Trees by Lewis Hill

The Backyard Homestead Mini Farm & Garden Log Book

John Jeavons How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons



_GENERAL SURVIVALISM TOPICS (As opposed to short-term SURVIVAL)_

Basic Preparedness, The Survival Center, Inc., @1994, ISBN 0-9642342-0-3
A good primer on food storage, water storage, very basic medical
supplies, grains etc.

Basic Self-Reliance, It is written as an instructors manual to teach
people in underdeveloped countries how to take care of themselves. It
shows how to make a hand powered wahing machine, a water clarifier (not
purifier), an evap. refrigerator, and much more.  It has a great chapter
on worms and and how to treat them, compost piles, and other low/no
technology solutions to basic health in a survival situation.  While
it's geared (I think) to the LDS missionary, it provides good
information in a non-sectarian manner.  Available from the LDS
distribution center, 152 pages, illustrated, spiral bound.  Current
price is $4.60, it'd probably cost another $1.00 to mail.  Check with
your local LDS Church or Ward, or ask an LDS member.

Checklist for Survival, by Tony & Jo-Anne Lesce.  It is the best
scenario and make you think book that I have seen.  It discusses how,
when, and where to prepare, use the black market, hide, defend, flee,
group, loot, ambush, grow food, get safe water, get fuel, obtain
transportation, and forage.

Crisis Preparedness Handbook by Jack A Spigarelli  Resource
Publications:Provo, Ut  1984  ISBN 0-936348-00-3. Covers food,
communications, tools (only 2 pages on guns), transportation, fuel and
water, radiological defence, etc.  The only week section was on guns, it
looked like a brief overview of Tappan, without explaining any of the
logic behind it.  The food storage is over half the book, and starts out
by calculating the ammount of calories you need, and working through the
various foods, both storage (freeze dried, whole grains) as well as
canned goods explaining the recommended ammount of each group.
Information on storing your own, gardening and forging was also
included.  Excellent biblography.

How to Survive in the City and Country, Ragner Benson.  Probally Bensons
best book.  Sections on trapping, generators (diesel, from china),
gardening, building a home, defense, etc.  Good general ideas for people
who can't buy their future.

Living Well on Practically Nothing, Edward H. Romney, @1992, ISBN
0-87364-694-0 A good reference especially if the financial times get
very hard.  Lots of good advise on how to get by with very little money.
Plus if you could save $1000.00 a year using this book just think of the
nice survival items you could buy. :-)

Making the best of Basics (Family Preparedness Handbook) by James
Talmage Stevens published by Peton Corporation PO Box 11925 , Salt lake
City, Utah 84147 distributed ??? Tower Enterprises, 7652 Silver Lake
Drive, Salt Lake , Utah, 84121

Preparing for Emergencies, by James. M. McKeever.  ISBN 0-86694-125-8
1993 (in print, unlke many other recommended books) Synopsis:  A general
How-to-prepare book with a twist:  each chapter is prioritzed with the
most important steps to take in the first few chapters.  E.g., Ch.1
Disasters, Ch.2 Water, Ch.3 Heat/Light, Ch.4 First Aid...  I.e. if
you're only going to do one thing, store water, two things, water &
heat/light, etc.

The Sense of Survival, A Comprehensive Guide to Survival, by
J. Allan South. The publisher is so small it is hard to order.  It is
carried by: Emergency Essentials, 165 S. Mountain Way Drive, Orem, UT
84058-5119  phone 1-800-999-1863 my favorite mail order co. The book is
$14.95 + $6 shipping for any order.

Survival with Style, Bradford Angier (also Field Guide to Edible Wild
Plants, same author).  No nonsense outdoor survival and woodcraft, from
an old timer who has done it. Much more indepth than other texts, and
had good, but brief coverage of firearms (the result of a slight
American (North and South) bias).

Tappan on Survival, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A
collection of the late Mr. Tappans articles in various magazines.

"Village Technology Handbook", by VITA (Volunteers in Technical
Asssitance), ISBN  086619-275-1


_HOMESTEADING_ How to create a home away from civilization

Anything written by Bradford Angier.  Should be available in libraries
or used book stores.

Country Blacksmithing by Charles McRaven. This is a very practical guide
to metalworking with limited equipment. There's a very complete, and
accurate, section on tempering steels.

Five Acres and Independence by M.G. Kains. It's a handbook for small
farm management.  It describes cropping methods, plants, and farming
techniques for small farms (5 acres or less).

The Foxfire Books (all of them).  Sorting the wheat from the chaff, lots
of good information on basic homesteading skills.

The Modern Homestead Manual, by Thomsen and Freshwater, ISBN
0-9625960-4-3, 215 pages.  Discusses the whys, hows and whens of moving
to the country, covering topics that other books have missed.

Practical Blacksmithing, by M.T. Richardson. This is a classic from the
turn of the century. If you are interested in old methods, this is a
must read.



_INSPIRATIONAL BOOKS (non-fiction)

Early Man And The Ocean, by Thor Heyerdahl. That's right, the guy who
sailed the seas in heaps of balsa and bunches of reeds. This is a
retrospective and contemplative look at his life's obsession,
understanding the ways humans traveled abroad during our dim prehistory.

Give your Heart to the Hawks by Winfred Blevins Great book based on the
factual adventures of the mountian men. Good account of Hugh Grant ( not
sure of the name ) being mauled by a Grizzly bear, left for dead by his
companions, including a young Jim Bridger, and not only making his way
back to the base camp, but then pursuing his false comrades for revenge!

The Raft by Robert Trumbull.  Three USN Aircrew navigate their raft 34
days to a landfall. Info on desperation navigation, finding food and
water at sea, and how to turn a Model 1911A1 into a better hammer when
it's going to rust solid anyway.

Survival in Auschwitz, by Primo Levi.  Learn the importance of attitude
in survival; those who kept hope alive in their hearts were far more
likely to make it through--as well as being able to think quick and
adapt.

Shackleton's Valiant Voyage by Alfred Lansing.  Antartic explorers lose
their ship in pack ice after a year of wating no rescue. Three (of the
28) sail a boat from the edge of the ice to South Georgia and make first
crossing of island mountain range. All survive.

Trapped at Pearl Harbor by Stephen Bower Young.  What to do when your
battle ship turns over?  Well, don't give up is a good start.

The Tracker, as told by William Jon Watkins.  Stories of his learning
and usage of survival techniques and tracking

The Search, Tom Brown with William Owen.  Same as above, but continued

Granfather, Tom Brown.  Account of Life of his Teacher, a South Lippan
Apache Scout. Many survival stories

Nature Philosophy Books by Tom Brown: The Vision The Quest The Journey
        Awakening Spirits

     Newt Gingrich's recommended reading list:

     Alvin and Heidi Toffler, authors of "Future Shock" and "The Third
     Wave."

     Federalist  Papers,  posted to political groups on the net.

     Toqueville  Travels  and Democracy in America

     The Declaration of Independence - Posted to the net

     The Constitution of the United States of America - Posted to the
     net

     Druckers  "Effective Executive,

     Demmings "Concepts  of  Quality

     Progress  and  Freedom  Foundation's  report on  Alvin Toffler's
      works

     Quote of Newt recommending the Founders in general:
             "In  the  other  direction  I  suggest  to  them, immerse
             yourself  in  the  Founding  Fathers. These people thought
             a long time about the nature of  being human,  about the
             problems  of power,  about  how to organize a free society
             so it could sustain freedom. And if you can combine the
             two, you can begin to  create an  opportunity  for  every
             American to participate in ways that will prove to be quite
             remarkable."   -- Newt Gingrich

     The Ruling Class: Inside the Imperial Congress_ (Eric Felten,
Heritage Foundation, 1993).  It's a fascinating account of how Congress
has abrogated its responsibility to write rational and reasonable laws,
how it sidesteps accountability for its actions, and how it has turned
itself into an incumbency machine.


_MISCELLANY_

A serious dictionary of your favorite language.

The Book of Outdoor Lore, by Clyde Ormond.  A great book full of
survival skills, equipment needed (nothing high-tech: this book is from
the 1950's), edible plants and animals and how to gather/hunt/prepare
them, etc. Even includes making and using primitive weapons (e.g., a
hunting sling).

Care and Use of Individual Clothing and Equipment, Army Field Manual
21-15.  How to use basic field gear.

Cold comfort : keeping warm in the outdoors / Glenn Randall. New York,
NY : Lyons & Burford, c1987. ISBN 0941130460 (pbk.) : $9.95.  An
excellent discussion of how to stay warm.

Everyone's Knife Bible by Don Paul. Very interesting book.

Field Hygiene and Sanitation, Army Field Manual 21-10/Air Force Manual
161-10.  Basic field sanitation techniques.

How to hide almost anything, by Krotz.  Ideas about hiding small items
in your home, in false panels, cabinet fronts, etc.

How to Shit in the Woods, by Kathleen Meyer.  The name says it all.

Improvised Munitions Handbook, TM 31-210, Department of the Army
Technical Manual, 1969.  The how to do it, including:  9mm pipe pistol,
pipe shotgun, fertilizer an-al explosive, improvised black powder,
reuseable primer, pipe bombs, fuse, gasoline gelled with animal blood,
and many others.

The Modern Gunsmith (2 volumes) (c. 1930).  It discusses many topics,
including machining, forging and tempering (complete with a full-color
"color chart" for tempering; gives approximate temperatures for the
various colors, and the uses of such tools).  If you can find this book,
it's probably worth whatever you have to pay for it.

Modern Weapons Caching, by Ragnar Benson.  How to long-term store most
anything.

The Morrow Guide to Knots, Bigon and Regazzoni.  Lots of different
knots, how and when to tie them.

The Official Boy Scout Fieldbook - A must-have, especially the older
versions.

The Official Boy Scout Handbook - A classic, both the current edition
and especially older versions

Pocket Ref, Thomas J. Glover, Sequoia Publishing, 1989 ISBN #
0-9622359-0-3.  A pocket-sized book full of potentially useful
information about machining, wood, building, electronics and computers,
Gasses, and all sorts of other stuff.  Highly recommended - this book is
one that I keep loosing, I should buy several copies and keep them in my
toolbox, desk, at work, and in my briefcase.

The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch Warner Books 1985
ISBN 0-446-38002-4 (USA) (0-446-38003-2 Canada) 8" x 9 1/4" 145 ppg.
paper  ($12.50, 13.50 in Can. - as of 1985) Razor-Edge Systems, Inc.  PO
Box 150, Ely, Minnesota 55731. 218 365 6419, 218 365 5360 (fax), 800 541
1458 (orders.) The book (item BK10) is $12.50 plus $4 shipping. An
excellent book on sharpening knives, axes, razors, etc.

Ropes, Knots and Slings for Climbers, by Walt Wheelock.  If your life is
dangling by a rope, lets make sure the knot is tied correctly.

US Army Special Forces Caching Techniques.  A reprint of a US Army
Manual from Desert Publications, P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751
Brief but thorough discussion of how to hide things, including
techniques that I'd never considered like anchoring them underwater. One
small criticism, the chapter on burying lists the tools to have, a
shovel might also be useful!

The Survivor, Volumes 1-4 by Kurt Saxon.  Old time techniques.

Tracking, a Blueprint for learning how, by Jack Kearney.  How to follow
people's and animals tracks, and by exclusion, how to avoid being
tracked.

Urban Combat, a reprint of a US Army Manual, from Desert Publications,
P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751 Information on current doctrine
for combat in urban areas, how to select and defend urban locations and
considerations of standard military weapons.

Vehicle Recovery Operations, Army Field Manual 21-22.  How to get
unstuck, also has good information about moving large heavy objects with
things found at hand.

Shelter, Shelter Pubs. 1973, Ten Speed Press. A historical, cultural
and practical perspective of shelter designs from around the world.
Also the aspects of water, food and waste (human, animal, food)
managment.  What to do with food and animal waste?  Some can be used for
compost. To my knowledge carnivorous waste is no good (food or fecal,
check me on this people).

The Yankee Magazine Book of Forgotten Arts.  Bacon, Richard M. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1978.   Hard cover, 217 pages.  Covers such topics as
cooking on a wood stove, building a smokehouse, using root cellars,
keeping a family cow, working with a draft horse, creating dyes from
common plants, making soap, wooden toys, paint, painting colonial
patterned floors, numerous others. .

Working at Woodworking by Jim Topin

Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Furniture Design by Seth Stem

The Workshop Book by Scott Landis

The Workbench Book by Scott Landis

Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country by Les Scher

How to Get Off the Fast Track by M.M Kirsch

Tom Brown's Field Guides to:
     City and Suburban Survival
     The Forgotten Wilderness
     Wilderness Survival
     Living with the Earth
     Nature
     Observation and Tracking
     Nature and Survival for Children
     Wild Edible and Medicinal Plants

Peterson's Field Guide to Animal Tracks


_NAVIGATION, MAPS AND COMPASS, STARS_

Atlas Of The Night Sky, Storm Dunlop and Wil Tirion. Before you can make
much use of the stars, for timekeeping or navigation, you have to be
able to find and identify the twinkly things. Fine whole-sky coverage,
to magnitude 6, epoch 2000.0, and the appealingly clear Tirion celestial
cartography.

Be Expert with Map and Compass, Bjorn Kjellstrom.  The classic on using
orienteering style compasses.

Delorme's Atlas and Gazetteer of individual states.  Currently available
for most Western States (except Nevada and New Mexico,  and most of the
Eastern States) these books combine topographic map information from the
USGS surveys and more current information about roads and other man-made
structures into folio-sized mapbooks in full color.  Scale is 1:250,000
or so (about 1 inch=4 miles) for Arizona, and 1:150,000 for California,
other states may vary.  A good, accurate and compact way of getting
information about areas of interest to you.

Finding Your Way On Land Or Sea Reading Nature's Maps, by Harold Gatty.
Formerly published, in Australia, as Nature Is Your Guide. The best
account extant of 'natural' navigation, that is, relying on observation
and deduction instead of instrumentation. Waves and sand dunes, birds
and insects, even the habits of plants are covered. Also worth reading
is his advice for staying oriented in strange towns. Includes
worthwhile, simplified  directions for determining direction from the
sun and stars and (local) time from the stars, also some highly
thought-provoking remarks on Polynesian celestial technique.

Goode's World Atlas, Rand McNally Co. Good climate, resource and
population maps; maps of ocean winds and currents, tabulated latitudes
and longitudes of population centers.

Topographic Symbols, Army Field Manual 21-31.  What the symbols on maps
mean.  Also applies to USGS topographic maps.

Map Reading, Army Field Manual 21-26.  How to use (correctly) military
style lensatic compasses, and the best discussion of military grid
systems such as UTM (Universal Transverse Mercator).

Wilderness Route Finder, by Calvin Rutstrum.  One of the few
non-military books discussing how to use the military style lensatic
compass, good information on general routefinding.



_NUCLEAR WAR AND RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE PREPARATIONS_

The Chernobyl Syndrome (and how to survive it), by Dean Ing copyright
1988 Baen Books ISBN:  0-671-65345-8 paperback, 330 pages.  More good
information from Ing.

Life after Doomsday, Bruce Clayton.  Good information on selecting a
location to "retreat" in, skills and tools.  Also excellent advise on
nuclear war planning and preparation.

Nuclear War Survival Skills, by Cresson Kearny.  Do it yourself fallout
shelters, radiation detection information, etc.  If you think the chance
of nuclear attack or incident is a threat, you should certainly have
this book.

For people who are looking for a source for Cresson Kearny's Nuclear War
Survival Skills, you can write to the following.
     The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine
     P.O. Box 1279
     Cave Junction, Oregon 97523

Pulling Through, by Dean Ing.  While this is actually a fictional book,
I've included it here because of the depth and accuracy of the scenario
that he presents, as well as the reprints of Nuclear War Survival
Skills, on building a fallout meter.  Also good information on expedient
shelter construction, but I'd still recommend Kearny for a detailed
discussion.

Radiological Defense Manual, CPG 2-6.2, Defense Civil Preparedness
Agency.  Information on fallout patterns and protection.

Risks and Hazards: A State by State Guide", Federal Emergency Management
Agency, P.O.Box 70274, Washington, DC  20024, (1990, publication #
FEMA-196). Contains maps for each state charting likely nuclear targets
and damage zones surrounding them.  Also has smaller maps of each state
showing location of nuclear power plants and areas subject to
earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.  Last section in- cludes
suggestions and checklists for dealing with the various kinds of
diasters.

Surviving Doomsday by C. Bruce Sibley.  Information-rich, with a
British/European flavor.


_PRIMITIVE SURVIVAL SKILLS AND TECHNIQUES_

Bushcraft, by R. Graves.  Written by a trainer of the Australian SAS,
survival manual Australian style, with a superb array of improvised
traps and snares, including fish traps. Limited amount of plant
information, and that mainly useful to Australians, but some universally
applicable good things to know, like identifying cyanide and oxylates by
flavor (*small* taste).

Outdoor Survival Skills, by Larry Dean Olsen. A classic manual
emphasizing American Indian techniques. Has information on making your
own primitive tools and weapons, shelters and clothing. A particularly
good feature is that dozens of edible or medicinal plants are described,
and illustrated using sharply focused color photos. All are plants found
in the American West--Olsen works out of BYU-- but many of them have
more general distribution.


_POWER GENERATION_

The Complete Battery Book Richard A Perez Tab Books Inc. Blue Ridge
Summit, PA 17214 ISBN 0-8306-1757-4 (paperback) 185 pages, illustrated.
Written for the layman.  Talks about What is a battery, lead acid,
ni-cad, edison cells, primary cells, methods and machines to charge,
using batteries effectively, Inverters, Energy management, and new
battery technologies (the book was written in 1985), formulae and
conversion factors. A great book.  Will teach you the basics of
batteries.

An Introduction to Solar Energy for Scientists and Engineers, Sol Wieder
publisher: Krieger ISBN: 0-89464-444-0 1992, a reprint of the 1982
edition 316 pages $57.50.

Survival Scrapbook #3 ENERGY by Stefan A. Szczelkun ISBN 0-8052-0449-0.
This is a good book on basic ways to use/make energy from a variety of
sources including sections on Solar, Wind, Fires, Water, Heat,
Electricity generation, Animal power, and Meditation.  This book has a
very good section on bio-fuels especially the extraction of methane from
wastes.


     _BIOFUELS_

Automotive Engineering Publications.  Convert your car to run on alcohol
fuel.  Minneapolis, Minn. : Burgess Pub. Co., c1980.  121 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Alcohol motor fuel cookbook.  Cornville,
Ariz. : Desert Publications, c1979.  vi, 140 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Second alcohol fuel cookbook.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : TAB Books, 1981, 303 p.

Carley, Larry W.  How to make your own alcohol fuels / 2nd ed.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : Tab Books, c1981.  279 p.

Crombie, Lance.  Making alcohol fuel : recipe & procedure.  Minneapolis,
Minn. : Rutan Pub., c1979.  115, {3} p.

Drane, Keat B.  Convert your car to alcohol.  Louisville, Ky. : Love
Street Books, c1980.  60 p.

Hamn, Tom.  Moonshine motorfuel : practical fuel-alcohol handbook : how
to make it, how to use it.  Fruita, CO : T. Hamn, c1992.  81 leaves
(approx 162 p.)

Lincoln, John Ware.  Driving without gas.  Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way
Pub., c1980.  x, 150 p.

Mathewson, Stephen W.  The manual for the home and farm production of
alcohol fuel.  Berkeley, Calif. : Ten Speed Press, c1980.  xii, 208 p.

McCoy, Ozzie.  Making moonshine fuel.  Louisville, Ky. : Love Street
Books, c1981.  95 p.

The Mother earth news alcohol fuel handbook.  Hendersonville, N.C. :
Mother Earth News, c1980.  120 p.

Nellis, Micki.  Makin' it on the farm : alcohol fuel is the road to
independence.  Iredell, Tex. : American Agriculture News

Ross, James R.  Fuel alcohol, how to make it, how to use it.  New York :
St. Martin's Press, c1981.  xv, 176 p.

Stetson, Fred.  Making your own motor fuel, with home and farm alcohol
stills. Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way Pub., c1980.  v, 186 p.

Vehicle modification for alcohol use.  Available from National Technical
Information Service, 1981.

Wortham, Jim.  Forget the gas pumps--make your own fuel.  Louisville,
Ky. : Love Street Books, c1979.  80 p.



_RADIOS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES_

Radios that Work for Free" by K.E. Edwards, published by Hope and Allen
Publishing Company, P.O. Box 926, Grants Pass, Oregon, 97526. ISBN
0-934264-02-3.

Visual Signals, Army Field Manual 21-60.  Standardized hand and
non-spoken signals.


_SURVIVAL (Short term, as opposed to GENERAL SURVIVALISM)_

Aircrew Survival, Air Force Manual 64-5, 1 Sept 85.  A pocket sized book
on immediate survival skills.

Search and Rescue - Survival Training, Air Force Regulation 64-4.  The
larger, full sized textbook for survival.

The Survival Book, by Nesbit.  Good General Survival techniques.

Survival Skills of the N. American indians by Peter Goodman

J. Wiseman, 'SAS Survival Handbook, 1986'. Despite that the book is
written by a Special Air Service survival trainer and named after SAS
(UK military elite troop), the book is purely civilian. A modern book.
Covers many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak on all
(eg. winter survival).

Survival, US Army Field Manual 21-76 ??, 1970. A bit outdated. Attempts
to cover very many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak
on all.

Individual operations and survival in cold weather areas' (?), US Army
Training Circular TC-??, 1986 ?. Small booklet on basic level.


K. Vainio et al. 'Miten selvian luonnossa', WSOY, 1983. 239p. Finnish.
Written by foremost Finnish survival experts and used on their survival
course. Reflects military practice. Requires some initial knowledge as
descriptions are brief. Excellent.

Handbok overlevnad, Armen, 1988. 228p. Swedish. Well illustrated,
pedagogic, Swedish mil survival handbook. Rather low initial level
required. Particularily strong on plants, well researched. Snow shelters
could be better imo. Excellent.

O. Aulio, 'Suuri retkeilykirja', Gummerus 1990. 567p. Finnish. A
hiking/wandering handbook with wide coverage. Lots of information,
including peace time survival. Some of the information has been taken
directly from other refs. possibly without evaluation by the author. No
plant usage described. Excellent.

V. Karanko, 'Pelastustoiminta vaaratilanteissa', Otava, 1976. 359p.
Finnish. Civil protection in peace, crisis and some war time situations.
Much is for organizing resque operations. Somewhat outdated. Wilderness
survival is not discussed except working of SAR. Good.

* S. Johansson, 'Spardressyr' Spektra, 1986. 224p. Swedish. Training
course for tracking dogs. Training and function of search, rapport,
protection and sled dogs are also covered briefly. Good.



                 Books with Survival Themes (Fictional)

Footfall, by Jerry Pournelle.  Alien's similar to elephants invade the
earth.  A good deal of how to survive in urban areas without the
infrastructure we would normally have.

Lucifer's Hammer, by Pournelle.  A comet strikes the earth, many
survival skills and scenes.  Also deals with canibalism.

Tunnel in the Sky, by Heinlein.  Survival in an unexpected, long term
situation.

Sixth Column, by Heinlein.  Survival after enemy invasion of the US.

Farnham's Freehold, by Heinlein.  One mans preparation and success in
surviving nuclear war.

Puling Though, by Dean Ing.  Post nuclear war scenario, Mr. Ing manages
to discuss a wide variety of pertinent survival skills.

The Stand, by Sephen King.  All reports suggest the book is better than
the miniseries on TV was, I haven't read the book, and I didn't watch
the series.  Starts out with a plague killing most people on earth,
turns supernatural towards the end.

Alas Babylon, by Pat Frank.  The first (?) survivalist book.  Nuclear
war survival in rural Florida.

No Blade of Grass, by John Christopher? A plague wipes out all food
grains over most of the earth.  People fleeing London for Wales, also
forming local alliances and groups.

The Sheep Look Up, by John Brunner.  Survival in an ecologically damaged
America.

Stand on Zanzibar, by John Brunner.  Life in an oppressive police state,
within an ecologically damaged world.

Maleville, by Robert Merle.  Post nuclear war survival in rural France.
Interesting social dramas, not too good for survival skills.

Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.  Useful for understanding the people
responsible for the problems.

Wolf & Iron, by Gordon R. Dickson.  Post economic colapse. Lone wanderer
scavanges and learns his way across several states. Finaly sets up as
blacksmith and farmer rancher.

A Canticle for Leibowitz, by  Walter M. Miller.  A fascinating book
about long-term post apocolypse story, about the value of books and
knowledge.

The Postman, by David Brin.  A great book about a traveller in the
medium - long post nuclear war environment, the establishment of local
and regional governments, and the value of a travelling postman to carry
news from one region to another.

Earth Abides by George R Steward.  Pandemic survivors find each other
and build comunities initially based on scavanging.  Inertia causes
little of predisaster technology and culture to be passed on, causing
great anguish to main charater.

Survivors by Terry Nation.  Pneumonic plauge strain spread by air travel
kills off most of the population.  Set in Great Britain, a survivor
group failing under pressure from bad weather and hostile neighbors
migrates to the south of France. Strangely enough Brits will use guns if
they can get them.

The Folk of the Fringe by Orson Scott Card.  Short stories set shortly
after a socital colapse. All stories are about Mormons or converts.

All Fools' Day by Edmund Cooper.  A new type of radation (yuk yuk)
causes most of mankind to commit suicide. The immune are 'creative
artists of all kinds, lunatics, political and reigious fanatics,
prostitutes and pathological animal lovers.' Set in Great Britain.

Harvest of Stars, by Poul Anderson:  America where political correctness
has become a religion and taken over.  One must think ahead and be on
ones toes at all times in dealing with a police state; acting experience
is a plus!

Vandenberg, by Oliver Lange.  Life in a United States occupied by Soviet
(or whatever) troops.  Frightening.

Warday and Nature's End, by Whitley Straub

The Ends of the Circle, by Paul O. Williams

Some Will Not Die, by Algis Budrys.  Post pandemic in New York City Son
of inital main char forms the "Reunification Army" to create the "Second
Republic." Guns guns and more guns and living on 20 year old canned
goods. Still not a bad story.

Only Lovers Left Alive by Dave Wallis.  Set in Britain, virtually
everyone over 19 commits suicide over a 2 year period.  A street gang
rises to the conquest of London metro area but finds it tough going in
the country when the canned good run out.

"Out of the Ashes" series by William Johnstone.  The first is excellent
on establishing attitude and the others each have a few tidbits in them.
His Tri-states concept is developing almost a cult-like following in
some areas.  Most of the later volumes are just pay copy (Is there any
other reason to write?) so you have to wade through a lot of story line
to pick out the good parts.  He writes interesting copy so it isn't a
chore.

Path to Savagery by Robert Edmund Alter.  The world after a minor
nuclear war.  The polar ice caps have melted, flooding the coast lines.
North America is suffering from a drought and millions of people are
dead.  The hero is a "loner" who avoids interacting with the tribes that
most of the survivors have joined.  He has a Thompson sub-machine gun
and the right attitude.

The Castle Keeps by Andrew J Offutt.  American life has gradually gone
to hell in a handbasket, especially in the cities.  Story of a family
that moved to a farm determined to do what it takes to survive and live
well.  My only complaint with this book is that the protagonist uses a
Colt .45 SAA instead of a M1911.    Other than this, he scenes involving
firearms are very well done.

Winters Daughter by Charles Whitmore.  Told in the style of a Norse
Saga, the life of a woman born in Africa just after a nuclear war, to
American and Norse parents. She lives in N. America and Norway, goes
down swinging in a feud in Norway in the best saga tradition.

The Long Loud Silence by Wilson Tucker.  Bio war wipes out USA east of
Mississippi.  The story of an "immune" (all such are carrers). Canablism
is adopted by some survivors.

The day of the triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

"Z for Zachariah" fictional account of a young woman surviving the
aftermath of a nuclear war on her parents farm.  Very weak on science.
She lives in a protected valley, and everything outside the valley is
dead.  Then one day a man shows up who invented a radiation proof suit
with a pushcart (since cars are radioactive).  She hides in the woods,
unsure of what to do.  Finally she shows herself, but not before he
drinks from a radioactive pond.  He gets sick, she helps him, he
eventualy tries to rape her, and she hides again.  It had some good
points, such as hiding her garden, geting fuel from pumps w/o
electricity, and what to do with her dog, since it could be used by the
man to find her.  (reviewer) read it in Jr High school in the school
library, so its at least 13 old, and intended for younger readers.








                       Magazines and Periodicals

American Survival Guide, McMullen & Yee Publishing, 774 South Placentia
Ave. Placentia, CA  92670  (714) 572-2255 Monthly, $26.95 / year.

Backwoods Home Magazine, 1257 Siskiyou Blvd. #213, Ashland, Or  97520
Bi-monthly, $17.95.

Back Home Magazine, Wordsworth Communications, 110 Third Ave. West,
Hendersonville, NC  28792.  Quarterly, $16.00 / year.

Home Power, P.O. Box 520, Ashland, Or  97520.  Bi-monthly, $15.00 /
year.

The Wild Foods Forum, Box 61413, Virginia Beach VA  23462.  Bimonthly,
$15/yr, $2 for sample.



                             Usenet Groups

Groups you might be interested in, besides misc.survivalism
                                             
alt.architecture - alternative building techniques
alt.engr.explosives - for more serious explosives.
alt.energy.renewable
alt.radio.scanner
misc.consumer.housing
misc.emergency-services - Emergency medical and Search and Rescue
misc.rural
rec.firearms
rec.hunting
rec.pets.dogs - for your 4-legged friends
rec.radio.* - all sorts of radios and technology
rec.radio.shortwave
rec.pyrotechnics - if you're interested in things that go boom.



               USENET FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions)

FAQ's that might be of interest.  Some parts have been incorporated
here, but many others have not.

rec.pyrotechnics
rec.backpacking
rec.firearms
rec.radio.shortwave



                           Movies and Videos

The Day of the Triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

Amerika - TV movie about life in the US following an invasion and
takeover by the Soviet Union.  Interesting in terms of infrastructure
that was no longer present (phone service?) and how a resistance
organization grew.

Testament

Survivors TV series - 38 Episodes based on the Book.

Red Dawn - Soviet backed forces from Nicaragua invade Colorado, high
school students form resistance movement and fight back.

Zulu - British Soldiers in Colonial Africa fight against thousands of
Zulu warriors.  Interesting in terms of command relationships.

Zulu Dawn

Alive - Movie about the survivors of a plane crash in the Andes, who
resort to canibalism.

5 Returned?  About nuclear war in the Los Angeles area.  An identifying
scene of stopping traffic on the freeway by throwing a bucket of
gasoline across it, and setting it afire.  Anyone know what the name
really is?  How about a copy?

-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
			 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From decastro@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:25:45 EST 1995
Article: 7704 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Sources.List ver 0.16
Message-ID: <decastroD49Fx8.DF5@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:41:32 GMT
Lines: 686
Sender: decastro@netcom4.netcom.com

                        Sources, rev 0.16


Disclaimer:  Much of the information here is from the FAQ's of other
USENET groups.  I don't know if the companies are still in business, or
if the information about them is accurate.  If something's wrong, let me
know and I'll update this list.  Send updates to decastro@netcom.com.


Changes in rev 0.16:  Added more sources.




Real Goods Catalog, Real Goods Trading Company 966 Mazzoni St Ukiah, Ca
95482 800-762-7325 (orders) 707-468-0301 (tech) 707-468-0301 (FAX)

A.I. Root Company
    P.O. Box 706
    Medina, Ohio 44258
    1-800 BUY ROOT (1-800-289-7668)
    Beekeeping supplies.

A.M. Leonard, Inc.
    6665 Spiker Road
    PO Box 816
    Piqua, Ohio 45356
    Good prices, fast service on nursery supplies.

Alternate Energy Engineering
    PO Box 339
    Redway, Ca 95560
    800-777-6609

Adventure Medical Kits  (first aid supplies)
     Berlekey CA              510 531 9610


Adventure Outfitters  (discounter)
    514 So. College Ave.
    Ft. Collins CO 80524
    303 224 2460
    800 622 4486

Argent
    1-800-426-6258 (US)
    1-800-663-2871 (Canada)
    Ask for their free catalogue and their book catalogue.  They hav
    aquaculture chemicals and equipment, and an extensive selection
    of books.

Austree, Inc
    Pescadero, CA
    1-800-638-1441
    Fast-growing hybrid trees.

Bailey's, Inc.
    44650 Hwy. 101, Box 550
    Laytonville, CA 95454
    Ph: 707-984-6133
    Orders: 800-322-4539
    They've got lots of serious stuff for those who cut wood.  They
    do seem to be reasonably priced."  Dave Sill

Brigade Quartermasters (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     1025 Cobb International Bl    
     Kennesaw GA 30144-4300
     Catalog Order       800-338-4327
     Customer Service    404-428-1234
     FAX  800-829-2999

Brownells Gunsmithing Parts and supplies.
     200 S. Front St.
     Montezuma, IA 50171
     515-623-5401

Burden's Surplus Center
     Nebraska
     1-800-488-3407
     They have lots of 12 V pumps of various types, as well as lots of
     other neat stuff rural types might like. Best of all, they have
     good prices.

Cabela's  (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     812-13th. Ave.
     Sidney NE 69160
	  Catalog Order       800-237-4444
	  Customer Service    800-237-8888
	  FAX                 308-254-2200

CAMPMOR   (Camping-Bike-Backpacking)
     801 route 17 North
     Order Dept. Box 997-H
     Paramus NJ 07653-0997
	  Catalog Order       800-526-4784
	  Customer Service    800-525-4784
		    FAX  20447-5559
     a large catalog, often the best prices.
     One retail store in Paramus.

Cheyenne Outfitters      (Western)
     P O Box 12013
     Cheyenne  WY 82003-1219
	  Catalog Order       800-234-0432
	  Customer Service    307-775-7575

Cumberland General Store
      Rt 3 Box 81
      Crossville, TN 38555
      800/334-4640
      Same as Lehman's but bigger selection; e.g. includes buggies and
      buggy parts, horse drawn equipment, blacksmithing tools (though
      these are better bought used), patent medicines, etc.  Catalog is
      $3 (refundable)  "old time general merchandise".  About 270
      pages of "Goods in Endless Variety for Man & Beast".

Daisy Kingdom  (outdoor fabrics and also patterns)
   134 NW 8th
   Portland, OR
   (503) 222-9033             

Delorme Publishing Co.
     P.O. Box 298,
     Freeport, ME  04032
     (207) 865-4171

Map atlas and gazetteers for many States, combines current topographic
data with updates for man-made structures into a folio-sized full color
map book.

Delta Press  They carry many of the books listed and ship world wide.
Plus, they're smart enough to have an e-mail address!

        P.O. Box 1625
        El Dorado, AR
        1-800-852-4445
        email:deltagrp@eldonet.com

Dillon Precision Products
     7442 E. Butherus Dr
     Scottsdale, Az  85260

     (800) 223 4570 (Sales)
     (800) 762-3845 (Catalog Requests)

Probably the best firearms reloading equipment made, with the best
customer service I've EVER seen.

Don Gleason    (Camping-Backpacking)
     PO Box 87-9 Pearl St.
     Northhampton MA 0106 0087
	  Catalog Order       800-257-0019
	  Customer Service    413-584-4895
		    FAX       413-586-8770
     a line similar to Campmor (Eureka, Northface, Coleman etc.)
     with a few interesting  odds and ends like Eastwing rock tools
     and gold pans, bulk shock cord, a whole page of bulk propane
     fittings and adaptors, and bulk tanks......  They state they
     have a no hassle return policy and 1 yr warranty.  Their retail
     store is located one block south of the intersection of route 5
     and route 9 (Main St.) in Northampton, Mass.  1 mile from exit
     18 of interstate 91, 15 minutes North of exit 4 of the Mass
     Turnpike (West Springfield exit).

Down Home   (sleeping bags)
     west fork road 
     Deadwood, Oregon, 97430  
			 503 964 3012

Dunns     (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     Hwy 57E PO Box 449
     Grand Junction TN 38039
	  Catalog Order       800-223-8667
	  Customer Service    800-367-2940
		    FAX       901-764-6503

Dyna Med  (first-aid supplies and kits, reasonable prices)  
     cust service             800 334 8211 
     orders                   800 854 2706 
     
Early Winters  (Ski-Camping)
     PO Box 4333
     Portland OR 97208-4333
	  Catalog Order       800-458-4438
	  Customer Service    800-821-1286
		    FAX       503-643-1973

Eastern Mountain Sports (EMS) (general backcountry equipment)
			 603 924 9571
     EMS does not have a mail order catalog, but has
     a large number of retail stores in the East. At
     least some of these stores will accept phone orders.
     Sale flyers are mailed to local lists.  Check your
     local phone book.

Eddie Bauer    (Camping-Backpacking)
     Fifth and  Union
     PO Box 3700
     Seattle WA. 98124-3700
	  Catalog Order       800-426-8020 
	  Customer Service    800-426-6253
		    FAX       206-869-4629

EEB

Fair Radio Sales Co.  (Surplus military and other electronic devices,
including radios and telephones)
     P.O. Box 1105
     1016 E. Eureka St.
     Lima OH 45802
     419-223-2196
     419-227-6573
     419-227-1313 24hr Fax.

Feathered Friends  (Camping - Backpacking - Climbing) 
     15161 11th. Avenue
     Seattle WA 98122
	  Catalog Order    206-324-4166 or 441-8229
	  FAX                 206-443-9567
     "Yes Feathered Friends have gone mail order and they are
     stocking a lot of other items that they don't make. The catalog
     sent me was for climbing equipment. It was titled the Haulbag.
     But there sleeping bags and other items were also shown."

Fox Ridge Outfitters     (Camping-Hunting)
     400North Main St.
     PO Box 1700
     Rochester NH 03867
	  Catalog Order       800-243-4570
		    FAX       603-332-5133

Frostline Kits
     2512 W. Independent Avenue            
     Grand Junction, CO  81505-7200
			 800-548-7872
     "They carry pre-cut down kits but also sell uncut fabrics 
     and bulk down and holofil."

Galls, Inc.
      2470 Palumbo Dr.
      P.O. Box 54308,
      Lexington, Ky  40555
      1-800-4777766.

      Mostly Police equipment, good sources for flashlights, EMS and
Firefighting equipment, other odd things.

Gander Mountain, Inc. (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     Also ask about their specialty catalogs.
     Box 248 Hwy. W
     Wilmot WI 53192
	  Catalog Order       800-558-9410  
	  Customer Service    800-426-3371
		    FAX       800-533-2828

Gilfer Shortwave.  Shortwave Radios (especially scanners) and
publications.
     Gilfer Shortwave
     52 Park Ave
     Park Ridge, NJ 07656
     800-Gilfer-1

Granite Gear
     Highway 2
     Two Harbors, Minnesota  55616
     Tel. 218 834 6157

Grove Electronics - Shortwave Radios and information
     P.O. Box 98
     300 S. Highway 64 West
     Brasstown, NC 28902-0098


The Green Pepper  (fabrics, including neoprene)
     3918 West First Avenue 
     Eugene, OR  97402
			 (800) 767-5684

Indiana Camp Supply (general camping, medical)
     Loveland Colorado
	  Phone               303-669-8884
     "A large collection of medical and first aid items for back
     country use    ICS has changed ownership, and isn't in Indiana
     now.  Don't know if anything else has changed).  ICS is also a
     publisher of backcountry-related books."

Keel-Haulers Outfitters       (Kayak,Canoe, Scuba.)
     30940 Lorain Rd.
     N. Olmsted, OH 44070
	  Catalog Order       216-779-4545
     {testimonial to wonderful service and good prices deleted}

Kerr Controls Ltd.
     P.O. Box 1500
     Truro, Nova Scotia
     Canada B2N 5V2
     They make wood-fired boilers and wood-fired warm-air furnaces.
     
Lands End  (general clothing)
     1 Lands'end Lane
     Dept JW
     Dodgeville WI 53594
	  Catalog Order       800-356-4444

Lehman Hardware and Appliances (Non-Electric Catalog, Amish supplier)
     One Lehman Circle,  P.O. Box 41 Kidron, Ohio  44636
     Catalog Order 216-857-5757 FAX 216-857-5785

Cast iron cookware,oil/kerosene lamps, kerosene/LP refrigerators and
freezers, wood cooking stoves, pumps (pump heads, cylinders, drop-pipe,
pump rods), ram pumps, water filters, dutch ovens, peelers/pitters,
dryers/canners/juicers/presses, composting toilets, and all sorts of
tools and farm implements that an Amish farmer would use.

Leisure Outlet      (Packs, Bags, Tents )
     421 Soquel Av
     Santa Cruz CA 95062
	  Catalog Order  800-322-1460
	  Customer Service    408-335-7657
	       FAX       408-457-2682 / 457-0888

L.L. Bean (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-First Aid-Backpacking)
     Freeport ME 04033
	  Catalog Order       800-221-4221
	  Customer Service    800-341-4341
     Ask about their specialty catalogs.  
     Low shipping fee.  good customer satisfaction reputation; their
     retail store is a "must-see" when in Maine.  Also, if you are
     in the area: the LLBean closeout store on Rt. 16 in North
     Conway, NH.  Very good prices stock from discontinued lines
     and, I believe, on seconds and returns.  I've never seen this
     outlet advertised.

Major Suplus & Survival
     435 W. Alondra Bl.
     Gardena CA. 90248
     Catalog Order (LA area)  310-324-8855
     Catalog Order       800-441-8855
     Customer Service  FAX  310-324-6909

Mass *Army* Navy* Store (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     15 Fordham Rd.
     Boston MA 02134
	  Catalog Order       800-343-7749
	  Customer Service    617-783-1250
	  FAX                 617-254-6607

MCA Sports (Cartridge converters - see Tappans Survival Guns)
     P.O. Box 8868
     Palm Springs, CA 92263
     619-770-2005

Moore Medical, Ask for the EMS catalog            
			 800 234 1464
     "Moore carries many medical supplies found on a BLS ambulance
     at low to reasonable prices.  A few other accessories, but not
     extensive."  (jdeifik@isi.edu)

Micro Bio-medics [otherwise known as MBM]
     Supplies and equipment for sports medicine, first aid, EMS, and
     school nurses.
     MBM, Inc. 717 South Third Ave Mt. Vernon, NY
	  800-431-2743 914-699-1700 914-699-1759 FAX
     MBM, Inc. 8930 Western Way, Suite 5 Jacksonville, FL 32256
	  800-345-9883 904-363-1396
     MBM - Arcade First Aid Division    211 Harbor Way South San
Francisco,
	  CA  94080 800-241-6555 415-589-6037 415-589-0812 FAX
	       
Mountain Equipment Co-op. 
     Mail Order Store    
     1665 W. 3rd Ave
     Vancouver, BC V6J 1K1
	  Catalog Order (US & Canada)800-663-2667 
	  Local or International   604-732-1537
		    FAX       604-736483 
     (Canada's answer to REI) $5.00 lifetime membership, 
     their own brand of clothing and packs (and other 
     things)  Retail stores:
	  Vancouver Store     (604)872-7858
	  428 West 8th Ave
	  Vancouver, BC V5Y 1N9

	  Calgary Store       (403)269-2420
	  1009-4th Ave S.W.
	  Calgary, AB T2P 0K8

	  Toronto Store       (416)363-0122
	  35 Front St. East
	  Toronto, ON M5E 1B3

	  Ottawa Store        (613)745-1094
	  5B Beechwood St.
	  Ottawa, ON K1M 1M2

Mountain Mend   (backcountry fabrics)
	  1580 Canyon
	  Boulder, CO 
		      (303) 443-1925

Narain's Outdoor Equipment          (Gore-tex)
     in Berkeley next door to REI
		    415 527-2509

Native Seeds/SEARCH
P.O. Box 4865
Albuquerque, NM 87196
(505) 268-9233

 -or-

Native Seeds/SEARCH
2509 N. Campbell Ave.
No. 235
Tucson, AZ 85719
(602) 327-9123


Nexco
     Box 13081
     Ogden, UT 84412-3081
     (800) 597-4743
     Fax: 801 394-5863
     E-mail Snexco@delphi.com
     Sells Military, Police, Survival, Camping  and  Emergency  items.
     They test and use all items before putting them in catalog.  The
     prices seem reasonable, and they have some interesting clothing
     items not usually seen.  They also have personal body armor.

     Also modern and smart enough to have net access!

NITRO-PAK                     213 802 0099
     13243 Rosecrans Avenue 
     Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670-4940
     first aid supplies ($5 catalog)    
	  
The North Face Factory Outlet store     
     1238 5th St. 
     Berkeley CA 94710
     510 526 3530   800 388 7998
     Medford Outlet Center
     303 County Road 12, S.W.
     Medford, MN 55049
     (ph) 507-455-3120
     (fax) 507-455-3739

Northern Hydraulics
    P.O. Box 1499
    Burnsville, MN 55337-0499
    800-533-5545  or 612-894-8310  (fax) 612-894-0003
    Generators, Gasoline Engines, and miscellaneous Good Stuff

Off Line -  alternative energy equipment
     P.O. Box 231
     North Fork, CA 93643
     (209) 877-7080

Omaha Vaccine Company
     1-800-367-4444
     Veterinary vaccines and supplies.

Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics  (208)466-1602
     16195 Latah Drive
     Nampa, ID  83651
     "I've only dealt with them once, but they were very helpful,
     and they have anything you might dream of in terms of
     outdoor fabrics (cordura, packcloth, lycra, neoprene,
     goretex, etc.)"

Out N Back
     PO Box 1279
     Provo, UT 84603
     801-224-0454
     Toll Free 800-533-7415

Pacific Yurts, Inc.
     77456 Hwy 99S
     Cottage Grove, OR 97424
     (503) 942-9435 voice
     (503) 942-0508 fax
     (800) 944-0240 voice

Paladin Press
     P.O. Box 1307
     Boulder, CO  80306
     1-800-3922400
     The catalog alone is an education.  Books on almost anything, from
     making firearms to explosives, finding people and not being found,
     etc.

Plants of the Southwest
     Agua Fria
     Rt 6 Box 11A
     Santa Fe, NM 87505
     (800) 788-SEED (Orders only, 24 hrs per day, US20 minimum) (505)
     471-2212 (9AM to 5 PM, M-F) Mail order (505) 344-8830 Albuquerque
     store (505) 428-8888 Sata Fe store
     Plants of the Southwest has a great catalog (for US3.50) containing
     native seeds for vegetables, grasses (native, low water, low growing),
     flowers, shrubs, and trees.  This aint a Burbee catalog!

PFI Western Store    (Western)
     2743 W Chestnut Exp
     Springfield MO 65802
	  Catalog Order       800-284-8191
	  Customer Service    800-284-8191
	       
Piragis Northwoods Outfitters (Canoe Camping)
     105B North Central Ave. 
     Ely MN 55731
	  Catalog Order       800-223-6565
     general catalog plus unique Boundary Waters items - books,
     maps, etc.  They are also a complete outfitter, with all sorts
     of rental equipment.  They rent light kevlar Wenonah canoes.

Ponderosa Products,
     2467 Ballantyne Lane,
     Eagle, ID  83616
     208 /939-1513
     ask for "CAREY" MRE's, Camping and Military Equipment.

Quest Outfitters              (800)359-6931
     2590 17th St. Suite B
     Sarasota, FL 34234
     "outdoor fabrics as well as zippers, threads, needles, liners,
     fills, and patterns."

Ramsey Outdoor
	  Catalog Order       201-261-5000
	  Customer Service    800-526-7436 

The Rainshed   (outdoor fabrics)   (503)753-8900
     707 NW 11th
     Corvallis, OR 97330
     "outdoor fabrics as well as zippers, threads, needles, liners,
     fills, and patterns." "We just ordered a large quantity of
     fabric from Rainshed after considering both them and several
     others including Quest Outfitters.  The Rainshed was anywhere
     from $2 to $8 cheaper per yard.  The Rainshed also has serves
     businesses with a tax id number with a discounted wholesale
     rate and no minium on fabrics. (12/92)"
     jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu)

Recreational Equipment Inc. REI (Camping-climbing-Backpacking-Bike-Ski)
     45th. Street East
     Summer WA 98352-0001
	  Catalog Order       800-426-4840
	  Customer Service    800-828-5533
		    FAX       206-891-2523
     "member-owned co-op;  some unique items including their own line
     of tents and clothing and lots of technical rock climbing
     equipment.  This is a membership-owned co-op.   Members get an
     annual 5% to 10% rebate on purchases.  Life membership $10.00
     Retail stores mostly in large urban areas, also mail order.  Highly
     recommended - their own line is always a good value."


Seeds of Change
     POB 15700
     Santa Fe, New Mexico 87506-5700
     1-505-438-8080 phone (9am-5pm MT)
     1-505-438-7052 FAX (24hrs)
     Toll-free catalog request line is
     1-800-957-3337
     Seeds cost $1.99 for each packet, volume and other discounts may
     apply.

Sequel    (clothing)
     PO Box 3185 
     98 Everett St
     Durango CO 81302-3185    
     303 385 4660

Sierra Supply (MRE's, military supplies and equipment)
     P.O. Box 1390
     Durango, CO 81301
     303-259-1822

Sierra-Riteway Mfg. Co.
     1680 Country Club Road
     Harrisonburg, VA 22801
     They make wood/coal-fired and wood/coal/oil or wood/coal/gas
     fired boilers.

Solar Electric Engineering, Inc
     175 Cascade Court
     Rohnert Park, CA 94928
     707-586-1987 fax: 707 586-0690
     Catalog $3.00 solar electric and hot water systems.

Shomer-tec
     Box 28070
     Bellingham, Washington 98228
     Phone: (360)733-6214
     Interesting specialty ammunition items for law enforcement and others.

Sierra Trading Post (Camping-Fishing-Backpacking)
     5025 Campstool Rd.
     Cheyenne WY 82007
     Catalog Order       307-775-8000
     Customer Service
     FAX       307-775-8088

The Sportsman's Guide (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     965 Decatur Ave. North
     Golden Valley Minnesota 55427-4398
     Catalog Order       800-888-3006
     Customer Service    800-888-5222
     FAX  800-333-6933


Screaming Eagle     (Hunting)
     PO Box 4507
     Missoula Montana 59806
     Catalog Order       800-458-2017
     Customer Service    406-543-1114

Smokey Mountain Knife Works   (Knife)
     PO Box 4430 
     Sevierville TN 37864-4430
	  Catalog Order       800-259-1306 
	  Customer Service    800-327-5871
		    FAX  615-429-0182   

Storey's Hard-to-Find Books for Country Living
     Schoolhouse Rd
     Pownal, VT 05261
     800-827-8673  Canada: 800-445-3906
     Customer assistance 413-664-7195
     Everything from "The Craft of Smocking" to "Be your Own Chimney
     Sweep"

Sunelco, Alternative power supplies
     Sunelco
     100 Skeels St
     P.O. Box 1499
     Hamilton, MT 59840-1499
     (800) 338-6844.

The Third Hand ( Bike-Ski  Tools)
     PO Box 212 
     Mt. Shasta CA 96067
	  Catalog Order       916-926-2600
		    FAX  916-926-2663

Trace Engineering
    5917 195th N.E.
    Arlington, WA 98223
    (206) 435-8826  Power equipment.


USGS Map Sales  (backcountry topo maps)
     Federal Center
     P.O. Box 25286
     Denver, CO   80225
			 303-236-7477

U.S. Plastic Corp.
     1390 Neubrecht Road
     Lima, Ohio 45801
     1(800)537-9724

A variety of durable containers in a wide range of sizes.

VauDe USA ( Clothing-Bags, all types-Tents)
     5311 Western Av  Suite A
     Boulder CO 80301
	  Catalog Order       800-886-8283

Wholesale Veterinary Supply
    POB 2256
    Rockford, IL 61131
    800/435-6940
    Good selection of veterinary supplies at good prices.

Wyoming River Raiders    (Camping, Kayaking, Canoeing and Rafting
     601 Wyoming Blvd
     Casper, WY 82609 
     Catalog Order       800-247-6068


-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
			 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From decastro@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:25:58 EST 1995
Article: 7703 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Books.List rev 0.16
Message-ID: <decastroD49FwF.DCo@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:41:02 GMT
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                        Survival Books, rev 0.16

Disclaimer:  Most reviews are written by the people who submit them to
me.  I only edit for style, punctuation and spelling (eventually).  I
really wouldn't like to get any flames if you disagree with the contents
of a review, if you don't like it, write another one and I'll include it
also.

General.  Books are listed (at a minimum)  by Title and Author, which
should be sufficient to find them in a library or bookstore.  I never
liked doing bibliographical information in my writing in school, and I'm
not going to do it here.  You're welcome to add your own information, if
you feel it's needed.

Also, many of the books listed are old.  Many date back to the heydays
of the survivalist movement in the seventies, some (especially the works
of Bradford Angier) are even older.  And of course, many very old books,
those from the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries, would have many good
ideas.  So, some of these books are not in print, your library might
have them, or should be able to get them via an interlibrary loan. Also,
check used book stores, garage sales, swapmeets and the like, you never
know what you might find.

Changes in rev 0.16:  Added additional books.


                        LOOKING FOR INFORMATION

Is there any worthwhile software that should be indexed?  If so, let's
discuss it in misc.survivalism, and I'll post it.

Anything that would fit into an existing catagory, or is similar to an
existing book.

Books about natural and/or homeopathic medicine

Shooting, Reloading, Making improvised weapons

Mail Order sources of books or catlogs

Alternative energy  including especially solar, micro-hydro and
geothermal energy sources.

Communications

Alternative Homebuilding

Alternative power systems

Sources of Training

????  --  If you know of a book to include here, please email me with
it's name and author, and a brief (1 or 2 sentence) description of it.
I'll compile and post them.  Send to decastro@netcom.com

Please do NOT send me anything in MIME format, if you can possibly avoid
it.  Also, please don't send me anything that's copyrighted.  If you are
the legitimate copyright holder, and are willing to place the
information in the public domain by posting it to a public newsgroup
with a suitable release, I'll be glad to incorporate it into this list -
otherwise, it's not public domain, and I won't.






                Non-Fiction Informational, Instructional
                         or Inspirational Books

_COOKING, WILD FOODS AND FOOD PRESERVATION_

Back to Basics Copyright 1981 The Reader's Digest Association, Inc. ISBN
0-89577-086-5.  Information on food storage and cooking.

The African Housewife And Her Home, by Esther Ko-eune. A book about
setting up and running a basic homestead, simply written to help people
who want to transition from semi-nomadic tribal life to settled
agriculture. Wonderfully to-the-point about compound layout, sanitation
and health, cooking and nutrition, clothesmaking and sickroom care.
[Eagle Press, 1952, printed at Nairobi]

"The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Charlie Papazian. ISBN
0-380-76366-4 "The Complete Handbook of Brewing" by Dave Miller.
Both books cover all of the bases. The Miller book is considered the
more "hardcore" of the two in terms of brewing from scratch, while the
Papazian book (actually he has a companion book out now, the name of
which currently escapes me) is more entertaining and is equally useful
to homebrewers of all experience levels.

Cooking with Home Storage, by Vicki Tate, is much more modern but
requires many more items to be stocked.  It has lots of simple recipes
and even home remedies.  It is available from Vicki Tate at:
1-801-835-8283.  Her audio tape on this topic is quite motivational.

Diet for a Small Planet, by Frances Moore Lappe, a million sold by 1975,
and still selling well. ISBN 0-345-27429-6.  THE classic. Half text
which explains the efficiency of grain consumption instead of animal
consumption. This approach could end world hunger.  Includes a good set
of recipes and guidance in balancing needed amino acids when avoiding
meat. In tuff times, we may all need this kind of efficiency.  Related
books are: Recipes for a Small Planet, by Ellen Buchman Ewald, 1973.
Food First, Beyond the Myth of Scarcity, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc.
1977. World Hunger, Twelve Myths, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc. 1986.

More-with-Less Cookbook, by Doris Janzen Longacre, suggestions by
Mennonites on how to eat better and consume less of the world's limited
food resources.  1976  Simple recipes. Lots of info on substitutions for
ingredients you don't have.  Breads, cereals, meat, soup, veggies,
complementary protein, allowances for energy and protein, garden, costs.
The recipes I have tried worked very well, including substitutions.

The Sprouter's Cookbook, for Fast Kitchen Crops, by Marjorie Page
Blanchard. 1975, Garden Way, ISBN: 0-88266-041-1  How to grow sprouts
with lots of recipes.  This is the way to get fresh veggies from long
term storage.

The Book of Whole Grains, by Marlene Anne Bumgarner, The Grain-by-Grain
Guide to Cooking, Growing, and Grinding Whole Cereals, Nuts, Peas, and
Beans. Here is where I found my favorite cookies.  I've had good luck
with the crackers and cereals.  Compares essential Amino Acid Contents
of all the grains, beans, nuts, and peas in chart form.  Discusses
grinders. 1976. ISBN:  0-312-09420-7.

The Grains Cookbook, by Bert Greene, 1988, ISBN: 0-89480-612-2 Many
recipies from around the world.  Great variety.

Wheat for Man, Why and How, with Recipes Developed Expressly for the Use
of Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour, by Vernice G. Rosenvall, etc. 1952 to
1982. ISBN: 0-88494-282-1.  If you store wheat, here is what to do with
it.

Make a Treat with Wheat, Recipes using Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour,
Cracked Wheat, and Whole Wheat, by Hazel Richards, 1968. Cereal,
including babies cereal, breads, rolls cakes, cookies, casseroles. This
can make storage food more fun.

The Taming of the CANDY* Monster, *=Continuously Advertised
Nutritionally Deficient Yummies, By Vicki Lansky, 1978.  How to replace
'junk foods'

Dutch Oven Secrets. Hopkins, Lynn.  Bountiful, Utah : Horizon
Publishers, c1990.  ISBN 0-88290-372-1.  This book has detailed
instructions on how to use your oven, and plenty of good recipes.  There
are also sections on cooking for large groups, and the use of a dutch
oven in a home food-storage program.

Edible Wild Plants, by Oliver Perry Medsger Covers all of North America,
describing over 150 of the most promising species and their habitats.
This is an old-style plant book; you will need a dictionary to decode
the botanical jargon. There are ample pen-and-ink illustrations and a
few photos. A charming feature is that the author includes a bit of the
lore and romance of the plants he describes, "...when [John] Franklin
was reduced to starvation in the Arctic regions, Rock Tripe was said to
have saved his life. It is often eaten by Canadian hunters and Indians
when food is scarce."

Essentials of Home Production and Storage, 1978, by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints.  A short (28-page) pamphlet that outlines a
method for determining what foods to store, and how to store them.
Interesting and basic information, it also contains an extensive
bibilography of related books.  It should be available from a local LDS
Church or Stake center, or book distributor.  Ask an LDS member.

The Herb Book by Lust, John B. (1974) ISBN 0-87904-007-6 Extensive
compilation of hundreds of herbs, with line drawings, descriptions,
growth ranges, parts used and uses.  Techniques of herbal medicine,
appendices of cross references of common to Latin botanical names,
extensive index.  Just about "the" book on herbology, after Culpepper's.

Kitchen Magic (How to use your food storage grains everyday) by Deanna
Smith Sudweeks, and Suzanna Smith Welton, published by Hawkes Publishing
inc, 3775 S. 500 West (PO box 15711) SLC, Utah, 84115

Old-Fashioned Dutch Oven Cookbook. Holm, Don.    Caldwell, Ohio :
Caxton, 1989, c1969.  ISBN 87004-133-9.  Also covers basic dutch oven
care and use, and lots of dutch oven recipes.  Emphasises wild game
(dutch ovens can turn an old boot into a tender, tasty meal!)  Includes
information on gutting, skining, and boning game, sourdough cooking, and
drying and/or smoking meat.  Also has a chapter on the eating habits of
the Lewis and Clark expedition (and man, did they ever eat!)

Old Fashioned Recipe Book, by Carla Emery.  A discussion of life under
less "civilized" conditions, including making butter and butchering
animals.

Passport to Survival, by Esther Dickey, Four Foods and More to Use and
Store, is the classic book of very basic food storage and use.  It
focuses on wheat, salt, honey, and powdered milk.  It has many recipes
with just these four and water.  Also includes storage, fun foods, and
outdoor cooking with these basic ingredients.

Peterson's Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants

Putting Food By Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan, Janet Greene.  How to
preserve foods, including salting and pickling.

Stocking Up, the book published by the Rodale Institute, also has some
info, perhaps even information on curing w/o nitrates.

Uprisings, the Whole Grain Bakers Book, by the Cooperative Whole Grain
Educational Association, 1990.  ISBN 0-913990-70-1.  Recipes for
whole-grain cooking.



_CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES_

Adobe Build it Yourself, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1985, Univ of Arizona
Press, 0-8165-0984-4

Adobe and Rammed Earth Buildings, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1984, Univ of
Arizona Press, 0-8165-1124-1

Alex Wade's Guide to Affordable Houses, Alex Wade 1984, Rodale Press,
0-87857-511-1

Alternative House Building, Mike McClintock 1984, Popular Science Books,
0-943822-39-4

A Place of Your Own Making, Stephen Taylor 1988, Henry Holt,
0-8050-0364-9

Build a Yurt: The Low-Cost Mongolian Round House by Len Charney, 1974,
Collier Books (a division of Macmillan Publishing), 0-02-079320-0.

Building Underground, Herb Wade 1983, Rodale Press, 0-87857-421-2

Cordwood Masonry Houses, Robert L. Roy

New Compact House Designs published in 1991 by Storey Communications,
Inc. They were by a design firm called Rammed Earth Works, P.O. Box
5006, Napa, CA 94581.

Dwelling on Earth.  A Manual for the Professional Application of
Earthbuilding Techniques", David Easton.  The book has about 200 pages,
has no copyright date, no publisher, no location.  We purchased it from
the Real Goods catalog. Very good instruction manual for DIY building.

Earthbuilders' Encylopedia (current price S$20.50) and Adobe Codes,
(US$7.95) covers the codes concerning building adobes in Arizona, New
Mexico, Texas, and some California details.  With the exception of
details, most codes were modeled after the New Mexico codes which have
also been accepted as U.B.C.  Available from: Southwest Solaradobe
School P.O. Box 153 Bosque, New Mexico 87006

Timber Reduced Energy Efficient Homes (aka TREE homes) at US$17.95, by
Ed Paschich and Paula Hendricks, @1994.  Published by:  Sunstone Press,
P.O. Box 2321, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2321.  This book has some
execellent sections on total environmental impact of the materials
selected and used for building either an adobe or an equivlant frame
home.

DESIGN OF STRUCTURES TO RESIST NUCLEAR WEAPONS EFFECTS; American Society
of Civil Engineers; ASCE Manuals and Reports on Engineering Practice No.
42; c1985; ACSE 345 East 47th St., NY, NY  10017-2398

Earth Sheltered Habitat, Gideon S. Golany 1983, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-22993-3

Earth Sheltered Housing, Max Riterman  1985, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-28287-7

Earthships, Vols. I, II, III, Michael Reynolds  Solar Survival Press

The Electricians Toolbox Manual, by Rex Miller, 1989, published by
ARCOS/Simon and Schuster, distributed by Prentice Hall,  ISBN
0-13-247701-7.  A small sized book full of good information on
electrical wiring, the National Electrical Code, and related issues.
Seems especially good for do-it-yourselfers who are unsure about the
specifics of wiring.  Section on tools, NEC, etc.

The $50 and Up Underground House Book, 4th edition by Mike Oehler,
Illustrations by Chris Royer, Mole Publishing Company/Van Nostrand
Reinhold Company, New York, 1981, ISBN: 0-442-27311-8, 116pp. How to
build an underground house using a shovel, polyethylene, and a chainsaw
with a milling attatchment.  Reasons for going underground. Different
approach to design:  face uphill, use lots of windows for light.

The Good House: Building a Life on the Land, Richard Manning

The Handyman's Book, Tools, Materials & Processes Employed in
Woodworking, by Paul N. Hasluck, 760pp, wi 2,545 illustrations and
working drawings, ISBN 0-89815-203-8, published by 10-Speed Press, P.O.
Box 7123, Berkeley, CA  94707. 1987.  Originally published in 1903.
$11.95.  Aside from being a true bargain in book prices, this is a
remarkable book in hand crafting almost anything from wood, using only
hand tools.  Includes drawings for various items such as furniture,
outbuildings, homes, tool boxes, etc. and a detailed description of the
selection, use, maintenance and care of hand tools.

The Independant Home, subtitled "Living Well with Power from the Sun,
Wind and Water", Michael Potts, ISBN 0-930031-65-2.   Available from
Real Goods.

Money Saving Strategies for the Owner/Builder, Robert L. Roy 1981,
Sterling, 0-8069-7548-2

Mother's Home Building & Shelter Guide, The Editors of TMEN 1983, Mother
Earth News, 0-938-432-03-6

The NEW Solar Electric Home, Joel Davidson 1987, Aatec, 0-937948-09-8

This Old House Guide to Building and Remodeling Materials, by Bob Villa
and Norm Abram, 1986, Warner Books ISBN 0-446-38246-9.  Few construction
techniques, per se, but lots of good information about materials to
build or rebuild structures with.  Also a good section on tools.

The Owner Built Home, Ken Kern 1972, 75, Scribners, 0-684-14226-6

Passive Annual Heat Storage by John Hait and The Rocky Mountain Research
Center, 1983, 152pp.  Available from Whole Earth Access. Use
polyethylene and insulation to maintain a constant year round
temperature in the immediate area around an underground house.

Practical Electrical Wiring by Richter & Schwan is the best that I've
seen on the subject for a homeowner. Updated with the advent of new NEC,
it is clear for the tyro and the pro alike! I don't know who publishes
it anymore, but it beats the pants off its competition!

Underground Houses, Robert L. Roy

Your Affordable Solar Home, Dan Hibshmann 1983, Sierra Club Books,
0-87156-327-4

How to build an underground house; Underground Designs; Underground
Plans Book; and A Tiny Underground House; all by Malcolm Wells and
available for a nominal ($7 - $14) cost from Malcolm Wells, Underground
Art Gallery, 673 Satucket Road,Brewster,MA 02631

These designs are all underground homes which look like something out of
the Architectural Record. They are breathtakingly beautiful, not some
survivalist bunker sort of thing.



_FIREARMS AND PRIMITIVE WEAPONS, DEFENSIVE TECHNIQUES_

Cooper on Handguns, by Jeff Cooper.  The classic book on firearms
selection, training and use.

Defending your Retreat, Delta Press.

Principles of Personal Defense, Jeff Cooper.

Shoot Out, by Tony Lesce.  A book on firearms self-defense.  Not as good
as some others.

Small Arms of the World, Ezell et al, Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, PA
The guide to most small arms of the world .22LR to .50CAL

The Survival Armory, by Duncan Long.  1994, Desert Publications.  A
current listing of survival weapons, not as good in theoretical aspects
as Tappan's Survival Guns, but more current in available weapons and
accessories.  I'd recommend reading after Survival Guns, but still a
good addition to the Survival Library.

Survival Guns, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A somewhat
dated, but still very valid, analysis of weapons (not just firearms) for
use in long and short term survival situations.

The Survival Retreat by Ragnar Benson.  "A total plan for retreat
defense".


_FIRST AID AND MEDICAL TREATMENT_

The Bantam Medical Dictionary, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-22673-8.  A
laymans medical dictionary.

Ditch Medicine, Richard L. Coffee, published by Paladin Press, Boulder,
Co 1993 ISBN  0-873464-717-3.  An excellent guide for pre-hospital care
givers in treatment of trauma associated with conflict, especially
penetrating trauma and burns.  Covers wound closure, infection control,
chest injuries, pain control during operative procedures, burns, etc.
Not a first-aid book, presupposes a fairly broad medical exposure.

Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, by the
American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.  The classic textbook for
Emergency Medical Technicians, sometimes called the "Orange Book".

Gray's anatomy.  Even the old editions, or the reprints of the "classic"
editions are worthwhile.  A very good text on human anatomy and
physiology, highly recommended.

Dr. Cohen's Healthy Sailor Book, by Michael Martin Cohen, M.D. Even if
you're too smart ever to get in a boat, you'll find good material on
such topics as hypothermia and dehydration, motion sickness, skin
problems, and psychological aberrations induced by isolation and
fatigue. Good writeup of how to mix up rehydration solutions for
diarrhea victims, using commonplace ingredients.

How to be Your Own Doctor (Sometimes), by Sehnert.  A good guide on
deciding if you need a doctor or not.

Hypothermia, Frostbite and Other Cold Injuries, Wilkerson, M.D., Bangs,
M.D., Hayward, M.D.

Hypothermia: Killer of the Unprepared, by Theodore G. Lathrop, M.D.  A
thin pamphlet published by The Mazamas, a climbing group.  Case studies,
warning signs and prevention advice. This was a sort of cult classic in
the seventies, among outdoorsy types. It pulls no punches and no doubt
has saved some lives. Quick, effective way to become clued about this
lethal problem.

Mangement of Wilderness and Environmental Emergencies, by Auerbach and
Geeher.  A medical textbook (warning) discussing simple and advanced
treatments.

Medicine for Mountaineering, published by the Mountaineers.  A good
intermediate-duration care book, with heavy emphasis on the mountains
and the problems of them.

Medicine for the Outdoors: A Guide to Emergency Medical Procedures
and First Aid   by Paul S. Auerbach, M.D. (revised and updated)
1991 Little Borwn and Company  ISBN 0-316-05931.  400 pages of
information about emergency procedures that laypeople can do
effectively.

The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Treatment, published by Merck.  The
classic diagnostic medical book, heavy on drug treatments rather than
surgical interventions.  A new edition is released every four or five
years.

Outdoor Emergency Care, by Bowman.  The National Ski Patrol emergency
medical text.  More applicable to emergency care in less than urban
situations.

The Physicians' Desk Reference (aka The PDR) 2497 pages Published by
Medical Economics Data Division of Medical Economics Co., Inc. Oradell
NJ  07649  Order by mail: Physicians' Desk Reference Reference P.O. box
10689 Des Moines, IA  50336 Order by fax: (515) 284-6714
This is a good _illustrated_ reference work about prescription drugs.
Could help in identifying any drugs found or procured in a survival
situation. My 1991 copy cost around $50 but since it's published every
year you could probably get last year's free from a friendly doctor or
nurse (they don't usually save the old ones).

Ships Medicine Chest and First Aid at Sea  published by the USPHS for
(mostly) the merchant marine.  Covers prescription drugs (legal and
technical), lists of drugs and material for different sizes ships.  Good
coverage of death, though burial at sea may not be an option for most.
Good disease section (including VD), doesn't assume a bunch of healthy
males such as some of the wilderness books.  The section on getting
medical advise over HF radio from the USPHS may be worth it's weigh in
gold for Hams.

Special Forces Medical Handbook.  This is a reprint of a US Army
training handbook, and covers many medical techniques as they apply to
unconventional operations.  Chapters on sterilizing under field
conditions, and field dentistry and obstetrics are especially good.

Wilderness Medicine 4th ed.  by William  Forgey  MD  covers  many common
medical problems, suggests med's for kits, assumes no doc- tor or EMS is
available.  Best of all, written  for  the  layman. Very good book.

Where there is no Doctor by ?  Originally a manual for Chinese village
health aides, good and modern information for life in a western world,
without all of the resources.

_GARDENING, FOOD GROWING AND FARMING_

Backyard Bonanza...an introduction to intensive gardening. By the
editors of Organic Gardening Magazine, and printed by Rodale.  Short
(<50 pp.) but effective intro to high-yield growing beds. I saw no
mention of ways the investigating varmints can be used to increase the
nutrition value of a gardening effort <g>, but that's Rodale for you

Bardswell, Frances A.  The Herb Garden, with illustrations by the Hon.
Florence Amherst and Isabelle Forrest.  London:  Adam & Charles Black,
1911.  Hard cover, 173 pages, index, tables, paste-in color
illustrations.  $20

Buchman, Dian Dincin.  Herbal Medicine:  The Natural Way to Get Well and
Stay Well.  New York:  Gramercy, 1980.  Hard cover with DJ, 310 pages,
index, drawings, list of resources.  $12

Fox, Helen M.  My Years in My Herb Garden.  New York:  MacMillan, 1953;
first printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, index, very good
condition.  $9

Freeman, Margaret B.  Herbs for the Mediaeval Household, for Cooking,
Healing and Divers Uses.  New York:  The Metropolotian Museum of Art,
1943.  Hard cover, 48 pages, illustrated with drawings.  Excellent
condition.  $9

Gibbons, Euell.  Stalking the Wild Asparagus:  Field Guide Edition.  A
field guide to edible wild plants.  New York: David McKay, 1972;
reprint.  Paper, 303 pages, excellent condition.  $6

Complete Book of Composting by ? (boring, but informative)

Grow it! by Richard Langer

Growing Food in Solar Greenhouses by Delores Wolfe (all the folks up
North)

Kadans, Joseph M.  Modern Encyclopedia of Herbs:  A comprehensive,
practical, up-to-date reference work covering hundreds of herbs:  common
names, cooking uses, botanical names, cosmetic uses, growing conditions,
medical uses.  New York:  Parker Publishing, 1970.  Hard cover with dust
jacket, 256 pages, cross-referenced index.  Very good condition.  $12

Medsger, Oliver Perry.  Edible Wild Plants.  New York:  McMillan, 1954.
Hard cover with DJ, 323 pages, photos, drawings, index, index of
scientific names.  $14

Miloradovich, Milo.  The Home Garden Book of Herbs & Spices:  The
complete handbook on growing, preparing and preserving all culinary
herbs and spices--for the gardener, the homemaker, and the gourmet.
Garden City, NY:  Doubleday, 1952.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 236
pages, index, list of botanical names.  $10

Pond, Barbara.  A Sampler of Wayside Herbs:  Rediscovering Old Uses For
Familiar wild Plants; illustrated by Edward and Marcia Norman.  New
York: Greenwich House, 1974.  Hard cover with DJ, index, bibliography,
color and B&W drawings and paintings, 126 pages.  Excellent condition.
$14

How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons (great book, I'm currently
using guidelines for my backyard garden)

Ramsbottom, John.  Edible Fungi, with colour plates by Rose Ellenby.
London:  Penguin, 1948.  Hard cover, 45 pages, 24 color plates.
Excellent condition.  $7

Ranson, Florence.  British Herbs.  Harmondsworth:  Penguin Books, 1949.
Paper, 203 pages, illustrated with photos and drawings.  Excellent
condition.   $6

Rohde, Eleanour Sinclair.  Herb Gardening.  London:  Medici Society,
1945; 2nd printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 206 pages, illustrated
with drawings, color & B&W photos.  Very good condition.  $9

Taylor, George M.  British Herbs and Vegetables.  London:  Collins,
1947.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 48 pages, color and B&W photos and
drawings.  $8

Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew (1981 Rodale Press
0-87857-341-0). Read it.

ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping from the A.I.Root library

The Hive and the Honey Bee from Dadant Publications

How to Make $100000 farming 25 Acres by Wheatly

Successful Small Sacle Farming by Schwenke

The Contrary Farmer by Gene Lodgson

Christmas Trees by Lewis Hill

The Backyard Homestead Mini Farm & Garden Log Book

John Jeavons How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons



_GENERAL SURVIVALISM TOPICS (As opposed to short-term SURVIVAL)_

Basic Preparedness, The Survival Center, Inc., @1994, ISBN 0-9642342-0-3
A good primer on food storage, water storage, very basic medical
supplies, grains etc.

Basic Self-Reliance, It is written as an instructors manual to teach
people in underdeveloped countries how to take care of themselves. It
shows how to make a hand powered wahing machine, a water clarifier (not
purifier), an evap. refrigerator, and much more.  It has a great chapter
on worms and and how to treat them, compost piles, and other low/no
technology solutions to basic health in a survival situation.  While
it's geared (I think) to the LDS missionary, it provides good
information in a non-sectarian manner.  Available from the LDS
distribution center, 152 pages, illustrated, spiral bound.  Current
price is $4.60, it'd probably cost another $1.00 to mail.  Check with
your local LDS Church or Ward, or ask an LDS member.

Checklist for Survival, by Tony & Jo-Anne Lesce.  It is the best
scenario and make you think book that I have seen.  It discusses how,
when, and where to prepare, use the black market, hide, defend, flee,
group, loot, ambush, grow food, get safe water, get fuel, obtain
transportation, and forage.

Crisis Preparedness Handbook by Jack A Spigarelli  Resource
Publications:Provo, Ut  1984  ISBN 0-936348-00-3. Covers food,
communications, tools (only 2 pages on guns), transportation, fuel and
water, radiological defence, etc.  The only week section was on guns, it
looked like a brief overview of Tappan, without explaining any of the
logic behind it.  The food storage is over half the book, and starts out
by calculating the ammount of calories you need, and working through the
various foods, both storage (freeze dried, whole grains) as well as
canned goods explaining the recommended ammount of each group.
Information on storing your own, gardening and forging was also
included.  Excellent biblography.

How to Survive in the City and Country, Ragner Benson.  Probally Bensons
best book.  Sections on trapping, generators (diesel, from china),
gardening, building a home, defense, etc.  Good general ideas for people
who can't buy their future.

Living Well on Practically Nothing, Edward H. Romney, @1992, ISBN
0-87364-694-0 A good reference especially if the financial times get
very hard.  Lots of good advise on how to get by with very little money.
Plus if you could save $1000.00 a year using this book just think of the
nice survival items you could buy. :-)

Making the best of Basics (Family Preparedness Handbook) by James
Talmage Stevens published by Peton Corporation PO Box 11925 , Salt lake
City, Utah 84147 distributed ??? Tower Enterprises, 7652 Silver Lake
Drive, Salt Lake , Utah, 84121

Preparing for Emergencies, by James. M. McKeever.  ISBN 0-86694-125-8
1993 (in print, unlke many other recommended books) Synopsis:  A general
How-to-prepare book with a twist:  each chapter is prioritzed with the
most important steps to take in the first few chapters.  E.g., Ch.1
Disasters, Ch.2 Water, Ch.3 Heat/Light, Ch.4 First Aid...  I.e. if
you're only going to do one thing, store water, two things, water &
heat/light, etc.

The Sense of Survival, A Comprehensive Guide to Survival, by
J. Allan South. The publisher is so small it is hard to order.  It is
carried by: Emergency Essentials, 165 S. Mountain Way Drive, Orem, UT
84058-5119  phone 1-800-999-1863 my favorite mail order co. The book is
$14.95 + $6 shipping for any order.

Survival with Style, Bradford Angier (also Field Guide to Edible Wild
Plants, same author).  No nonsense outdoor survival and woodcraft, from
an old timer who has done it. Much more indepth than other texts, and
had good, but brief coverage of firearms (the result of a slight
American (North and South) bias).

Tappan on Survival, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A
collection of the late Mr. Tappans articles in various magazines.

"Village Technology Handbook", by VITA (Volunteers in Technical
Asssitance), ISBN  086619-275-1


_HOMESTEADING_ How to create a home away from civilization

Anything written by Bradford Angier.  Should be available in libraries
or used book stores.

Country Blacksmithing by Charles McRaven. This is a very practical guide
to metalworking with limited equipment. There's a very complete, and
accurate, section on tempering steels.

Five Acres and Independence by M.G. Kains. It's a handbook for small
farm management.  It describes cropping methods, plants, and farming
techniques for small farms (5 acres or less).

The Foxfire Books (all of them).  Sorting the wheat from the chaff, lots
of good information on basic homesteading skills.

The Modern Homestead Manual, by Thomsen and Freshwater, ISBN
0-9625960-4-3, 215 pages.  Discusses the whys, hows and whens of moving
to the country, covering topics that other books have missed.

Practical Blacksmithing, by M.T. Richardson. This is a classic from the
turn of the century. If you are interested in old methods, this is a
must read.



_INSPIRATIONAL BOOKS (non-fiction)

Early Man And The Ocean, by Thor Heyerdahl. That's right, the guy who
sailed the seas in heaps of balsa and bunches of reeds. This is a
retrospective and contemplative look at his life's obsession,
understanding the ways humans traveled abroad during our dim prehistory.

Give your Heart to the Hawks by Winfred Blevins Great book based on the
factual adventures of the mountian men. Good account of Hugh Grant ( not
sure of the name ) being mauled by a Grizzly bear, left for dead by his
companions, including a young Jim Bridger, and not only making his way
back to the base camp, but then pursuing his false comrades for revenge!

The Raft by Robert Trumbull.  Three USN Aircrew navigate their raft 34
days to a landfall. Info on desperation navigation, finding food and
water at sea, and how to turn a Model 1911A1 into a better hammer when
it's going to rust solid anyway.

Survival in Auschwitz, by Primo Levi.  Learn the importance of attitude
in survival; those who kept hope alive in their hearts were far more
likely to make it through--as well as being able to think quick and
adapt.

Shackleton's Valiant Voyage by Alfred Lansing.  Antartic explorers lose
their ship in pack ice after a year of wating no rescue. Three (of the
28) sail a boat from the edge of the ice to South Georgia and make first
crossing of island mountain range. All survive.

Trapped at Pearl Harbor by Stephen Bower Young.  What to do when your
battle ship turns over?  Well, don't give up is a good start.

The Tracker, as told by William Jon Watkins.  Stories of his learning
and usage of survival techniques and tracking

The Search, Tom Brown with William Owen.  Same as above, but continued

Granfather, Tom Brown.  Account of Life of his Teacher, a South Lippan
Apache Scout. Many survival stories

Nature Philosophy Books by Tom Brown: The Vision The Quest The Journey
        Awakening Spirits

     Newt Gingrich's recommended reading list:

     Alvin and Heidi Toffler, authors of "Future Shock" and "The Third
     Wave."

     Federalist  Papers,  posted to political groups on the net.

     Toqueville  Travels  and Democracy in America

     The Declaration of Independence - Posted to the net

     The Constitution of the United States of America - Posted to the
     net

     Druckers  "Effective Executive,

     Demmings "Concepts  of  Quality

     Progress  and  Freedom  Foundation's  report on  Alvin Toffler's
      works

     Quote of Newt recommending the Founders in general:
             "In  the  other  direction  I  suggest  to  them, immerse
             yourself  in  the  Founding  Fathers. These people thought
             a long time about the nature of  being human,  about the
             problems  of power,  about  how to organize a free society
             so it could sustain freedom. And if you can combine the
             two, you can begin to  create an  opportunity  for  every
             American to participate in ways that will prove to be quite
             remarkable."   -- Newt Gingrich

     The Ruling Class: Inside the Imperial Congress_ (Eric Felten,
Heritage Foundation, 1993).  It's a fascinating account of how Congress
has abrogated its responsibility to write rational and reasonable laws,
how it sidesteps accountability for its actions, and how it has turned
itself into an incumbency machine.


_MISCELLANY_

A serious dictionary of your favorite language.

The Book of Outdoor Lore, by Clyde Ormond.  A great book full of
survival skills, equipment needed (nothing high-tech: this book is from
the 1950's), edible plants and animals and how to gather/hunt/prepare
them, etc. Even includes making and using primitive weapons (e.g., a
hunting sling).

Care and Use of Individual Clothing and Equipment, Army Field Manual
21-15.  How to use basic field gear.

Cold comfort : keeping warm in the outdoors / Glenn Randall. New York,
NY : Lyons & Burford, c1987. ISBN 0941130460 (pbk.) : $9.95.  An
excellent discussion of how to stay warm.

Everyone's Knife Bible by Don Paul. Very interesting book.

Field Hygiene and Sanitation, Army Field Manual 21-10/Air Force Manual
161-10.  Basic field sanitation techniques.

How to hide almost anything, by Krotz.  Ideas about hiding small items
in your home, in false panels, cabinet fronts, etc.

How to Shit in the Woods, by Kathleen Meyer.  The name says it all.

Improvised Munitions Handbook, TM 31-210, Department of the Army
Technical Manual, 1969.  The how to do it, including:  9mm pipe pistol,
pipe shotgun, fertilizer an-al explosive, improvised black powder,
reuseable primer, pipe bombs, fuse, gasoline gelled with animal blood,
and many others.

The Modern Gunsmith (2 volumes) (c. 1930).  It discusses many topics,
including machining, forging and tempering (complete with a full-color
"color chart" for tempering; gives approximate temperatures for the
various colors, and the uses of such tools).  If you can find this book,
it's probably worth whatever you have to pay for it.

Modern Weapons Caching, by Ragnar Benson.  How to long-term store most
anything.

The Morrow Guide to Knots, Bigon and Regazzoni.  Lots of different
knots, how and when to tie them.

The Official Boy Scout Fieldbook - A must-have, especially the older
versions.

The Official Boy Scout Handbook - A classic, both the current edition
and especially older versions

Pocket Ref, Thomas J. Glover, Sequoia Publishing, 1989 ISBN #
0-9622359-0-3.  A pocket-sized book full of potentially useful
information about machining, wood, building, electronics and computers,
Gasses, and all sorts of other stuff.  Highly recommended - this book is
one that I keep loosing, I should buy several copies and keep them in my
toolbox, desk, at work, and in my briefcase.

The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch Warner Books 1985
ISBN 0-446-38002-4 (USA) (0-446-38003-2 Canada) 8" x 9 1/4" 145 ppg.
paper  ($12.50, 13.50 in Can. - as of 1985) Razor-Edge Systems, Inc.  PO
Box 150, Ely, Minnesota 55731. 218 365 6419, 218 365 5360 (fax), 800 541
1458 (orders.) The book (item BK10) is $12.50 plus $4 shipping. An
excellent book on sharpening knives, axes, razors, etc.

Ropes, Knots and Slings for Climbers, by Walt Wheelock.  If your life is
dangling by a rope, lets make sure the knot is tied correctly.

US Army Special Forces Caching Techniques.  A reprint of a US Army
Manual from Desert Publications, P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751
Brief but thorough discussion of how to hide things, including
techniques that I'd never considered like anchoring them underwater. One
small criticism, the chapter on burying lists the tools to have, a
shovel might also be useful!

The Survivor, Volumes 1-4 by Kurt Saxon.  Old time techniques.

Tracking, a Blueprint for learning how, by Jack Kearney.  How to follow
people's and animals tracks, and by exclusion, how to avoid being
tracked.

Urban Combat, a reprint of a US Army Manual, from Desert Publications,
P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751 Information on current doctrine
for combat in urban areas, how to select and defend urban locations and
considerations of standard military weapons.

Vehicle Recovery Operations, Army Field Manual 21-22.  How to get
unstuck, also has good information about moving large heavy objects with
things found at hand.

Shelter, Shelter Pubs. 1973, Ten Speed Press. A historical, cultural
and practical perspective of shelter designs from around the world.
Also the aspects of water, food and waste (human, animal, food)
managment.  What to do with food and animal waste?  Some can be used for
compost. To my knowledge carnivorous waste is no good (food or fecal,
check me on this people).

The Yankee Magazine Book of Forgotten Arts.  Bacon, Richard M. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1978.   Hard cover, 217 pages.  Covers such topics as
cooking on a wood stove, building a smokehouse, using root cellars,
keeping a family cow, working with a draft horse, creating dyes from
common plants, making soap, wooden toys, paint, painting colonial
patterned floors, numerous others. .

Working at Woodworking by Jim Topin

Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Furniture Design by Seth Stem

The Workshop Book by Scott Landis

The Workbench Book by Scott Landis

Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country by Les Scher

How to Get Off the Fast Track by M.M Kirsch

Tom Brown's Field Guides to:
     City and Suburban Survival
     The Forgotten Wilderness
     Wilderness Survival
     Living with the Earth
     Nature
     Observation and Tracking
     Nature and Survival for Children
     Wild Edible and Medicinal Plants

Peterson's Field Guide to Animal Tracks


_NAVIGATION, MAPS AND COMPASS, STARS_

Atlas Of The Night Sky, Storm Dunlop and Wil Tirion. Before you can make
much use of the stars, for timekeeping or navigation, you have to be
able to find and identify the twinkly things. Fine whole-sky coverage,
to magnitude 6, epoch 2000.0, and the appealingly clear Tirion celestial
cartography.

Be Expert with Map and Compass, Bjorn Kjellstrom.  The classic on using
orienteering style compasses.

Delorme's Atlas and Gazetteer of individual states.  Currently available
for most Western States (except Nevada and New Mexico,  and most of the
Eastern States) these books combine topographic map information from the
USGS surveys and more current information about roads and other man-made
structures into folio-sized mapbooks in full color.  Scale is 1:250,000
or so (about 1 inch=4 miles) for Arizona, and 1:150,000 for California,
other states may vary.  A good, accurate and compact way of getting
information about areas of interest to you.

Finding Your Way On Land Or Sea Reading Nature's Maps, by Harold Gatty.
Formerly published, in Australia, as Nature Is Your Guide. The best
account extant of 'natural' navigation, that is, relying on observation
and deduction instead of instrumentation. Waves and sand dunes, birds
and insects, even the habits of plants are covered. Also worth reading
is his advice for staying oriented in strange towns. Includes
worthwhile, simplified  directions for determining direction from the
sun and stars and (local) time from the stars, also some highly
thought-provoking remarks on Polynesian celestial technique.

Goode's World Atlas, Rand McNally Co. Good climate, resource and
population maps; maps of ocean winds and currents, tabulated latitudes
and longitudes of population centers.

Topographic Symbols, Army Field Manual 21-31.  What the symbols on maps
mean.  Also applies to USGS topographic maps.

Map Reading, Army Field Manual 21-26.  How to use (correctly) military
style lensatic compasses, and the best discussion of military grid
systems such as UTM (Universal Transverse Mercator).

Wilderness Route Finder, by Calvin Rutstrum.  One of the few
non-military books discussing how to use the military style lensatic
compass, good information on general routefinding.



_NUCLEAR WAR AND RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE PREPARATIONS_

The Chernobyl Syndrome (and how to survive it), by Dean Ing copyright
1988 Baen Books ISBN:  0-671-65345-8 paperback, 330 pages.  More good
information from Ing.

Life after Doomsday, Bruce Clayton.  Good information on selecting a
location to "retreat" in, skills and tools.  Also excellent advise on
nuclear war planning and preparation.

Nuclear War Survival Skills, by Cresson Kearny.  Do it yourself fallout
shelters, radiation detection information, etc.  If you think the chance
of nuclear attack or incident is a threat, you should certainly have
this book.

For people who are looking for a source for Cresson Kearny's Nuclear War
Survival Skills, you can write to the following.
     The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine
     P.O. Box 1279
     Cave Junction, Oregon 97523

Pulling Through, by Dean Ing.  While this is actually a fictional book,
I've included it here because of the depth and accuracy of the scenario
that he presents, as well as the reprints of Nuclear War Survival
Skills, on building a fallout meter.  Also good information on expedient
shelter construction, but I'd still recommend Kearny for a detailed
discussion.

Radiological Defense Manual, CPG 2-6.2, Defense Civil Preparedness
Agency.  Information on fallout patterns and protection.

Risks and Hazards: A State by State Guide", Federal Emergency Management
Agency, P.O.Box 70274, Washington, DC  20024, (1990, publication #
FEMA-196). Contains maps for each state charting likely nuclear targets
and damage zones surrounding them.  Also has smaller maps of each state
showing location of nuclear power plants and areas subject to
earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.  Last section in- cludes
suggestions and checklists for dealing with the various kinds of
diasters.

Surviving Doomsday by C. Bruce Sibley.  Information-rich, with a
British/European flavor.


_PRIMITIVE SURVIVAL SKILLS AND TECHNIQUES_

Bushcraft, by R. Graves.  Written by a trainer of the Australian SAS,
survival manual Australian style, with a superb array of improvised
traps and snares, including fish traps. Limited amount of plant
information, and that mainly useful to Australians, but some universally
applicable good things to know, like identifying cyanide and oxylates by
flavor (*small* taste).

Outdoor Survival Skills, by Larry Dean Olsen. A classic manual
emphasizing American Indian techniques. Has information on making your
own primitive tools and weapons, shelters and clothing. A particularly
good feature is that dozens of edible or medicinal plants are described,
and illustrated using sharply focused color photos. All are plants found
in the American West--Olsen works out of BYU-- but many of them have
more general distribution.


_POWER GENERATION_

The Complete Battery Book Richard A Perez Tab Books Inc. Blue Ridge
Summit, PA 17214 ISBN 0-8306-1757-4 (paperback) 185 pages, illustrated.
Written for the layman.  Talks about What is a battery, lead acid,
ni-cad, edison cells, primary cells, methods and machines to charge,
using batteries effectively, Inverters, Energy management, and new
battery technologies (the book was written in 1985), formulae and
conversion factors. A great book.  Will teach you the basics of
batteries.

An Introduction to Solar Energy for Scientists and Engineers, Sol Wieder
publisher: Krieger ISBN: 0-89464-444-0 1992, a reprint of the 1982
edition 316 pages $57.50.

Survival Scrapbook #3 ENERGY by Stefan A. Szczelkun ISBN 0-8052-0449-0.
This is a good book on basic ways to use/make energy from a variety of
sources including sections on Solar, Wind, Fires, Water, Heat,
Electricity generation, Animal power, and Meditation.  This book has a
very good section on bio-fuels especially the extraction of methane from
wastes.


     _BIOFUELS_

Automotive Engineering Publications.  Convert your car to run on alcohol
fuel.  Minneapolis, Minn. : Burgess Pub. Co., c1980.  121 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Alcohol motor fuel cookbook.  Cornville,
Ariz. : Desert Publications, c1979.  vi, 140 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Second alcohol fuel cookbook.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : TAB Books, 1981, 303 p.

Carley, Larry W.  How to make your own alcohol fuels / 2nd ed.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : Tab Books, c1981.  279 p.

Crombie, Lance.  Making alcohol fuel : recipe & procedure.  Minneapolis,
Minn. : Rutan Pub., c1979.  115, {3} p.

Drane, Keat B.  Convert your car to alcohol.  Louisville, Ky. : Love
Street Books, c1980.  60 p.

Hamn, Tom.  Moonshine motorfuel : practical fuel-alcohol handbook : how
to make it, how to use it.  Fruita, CO : T. Hamn, c1992.  81 leaves
(approx 162 p.)

Lincoln, John Ware.  Driving without gas.  Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way
Pub., c1980.  x, 150 p.

Mathewson, Stephen W.  The manual for the home and farm production of
alcohol fuel.  Berkeley, Calif. : Ten Speed Press, c1980.  xii, 208 p.

McCoy, Ozzie.  Making moonshine fuel.  Louisville, Ky. : Love Street
Books, c1981.  95 p.

The Mother earth news alcohol fuel handbook.  Hendersonville, N.C. :
Mother Earth News, c1980.  120 p.

Nellis, Micki.  Makin' it on the farm : alcohol fuel is the road to
independence.  Iredell, Tex. : American Agriculture News

Ross, James R.  Fuel alcohol, how to make it, how to use it.  New York :
St. Martin's Press, c1981.  xv, 176 p.

Stetson, Fred.  Making your own motor fuel, with home and farm alcohol
stills. Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way Pub., c1980.  v, 186 p.

Vehicle modification for alcohol use.  Available from National Technical
Information Service, 1981.

Wortham, Jim.  Forget the gas pumps--make your own fuel.  Louisville,
Ky. : Love Street Books, c1979.  80 p.



_RADIOS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES_

Radios that Work for Free" by K.E. Edwards, published by Hope and Allen
Publishing Company, P.O. Box 926, Grants Pass, Oregon, 97526. ISBN
0-934264-02-3.

Visual Signals, Army Field Manual 21-60.  Standardized hand and
non-spoken signals.


_SURVIVAL (Short term, as opposed to GENERAL SURVIVALISM)_

Aircrew Survival, Air Force Manual 64-5, 1 Sept 85.  A pocket sized book
on immediate survival skills.

Search and Rescue - Survival Training, Air Force Regulation 64-4.  The
larger, full sized textbook for survival.

The Survival Book, by Nesbit.  Good General Survival techniques.

Survival Skills of the N. American indians by Peter Goodman

J. Wiseman, 'SAS Survival Handbook, 1986'. Despite that the book is
written by a Special Air Service survival trainer and named after SAS
(UK military elite troop), the book is purely civilian. A modern book.
Covers many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak on all
(eg. winter survival).

Survival, US Army Field Manual 21-76 ??, 1970. A bit outdated. Attempts
to cover very many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak
on all.

Individual operations and survival in cold weather areas' (?), US Army
Training Circular TC-??, 1986 ?. Small booklet on basic level.


K. Vainio et al. 'Miten selvian luonnossa', WSOY, 1983. 239p. Finnish.
Written by foremost Finnish survival experts and used on their survival
course. Reflects military practice. Requires some initial knowledge as
descriptions are brief. Excellent.

Handbok overlevnad, Armen, 1988. 228p. Swedish. Well illustrated,
pedagogic, Swedish mil survival handbook. Rather low initial level
required. Particularily strong on plants, well researched. Snow shelters
could be better imo. Excellent.

O. Aulio, 'Suuri retkeilykirja', Gummerus 1990. 567p. Finnish. A
hiking/wandering handbook with wide coverage. Lots of information,
including peace time survival. Some of the information has been taken
directly from other refs. possibly without evaluation by the author. No
plant usage described. Excellent.

V. Karanko, 'Pelastustoiminta vaaratilanteissa', Otava, 1976. 359p.
Finnish. Civil protection in peace, crisis and some war time situations.
Much is for organizing resque operations. Somewhat outdated. Wilderness
survival is not discussed except working of SAR. Good.

* S. Johansson, 'Spardressyr' Spektra, 1986. 224p. Swedish. Training
course for tracking dogs. Training and function of search, rapport,
protection and sled dogs are also covered briefly. Good.



                 Books with Survival Themes (Fictional)

Footfall, by Jerry Pournelle.  Alien's similar to elephants invade the
earth.  A good deal of how to survive in urban areas without the
infrastructure we would normally have.

Lucifer's Hammer, by Pournelle.  A comet strikes the earth, many
survival skills and scenes.  Also deals with canibalism.

Tunnel in the Sky, by Heinlein.  Survival in an unexpected, long term
situation.

Sixth Column, by Heinlein.  Survival after enemy invasion of the US.

Farnham's Freehold, by Heinlein.  One mans preparation and success in
surviving nuclear war.

Puling Though, by Dean Ing.  Post nuclear war scenario, Mr. Ing manages
to discuss a wide variety of pertinent survival skills.

The Stand, by Sephen King.  All reports suggest the book is better than
the miniseries on TV was, I haven't read the book, and I didn't watch
the series.  Starts out with a plague killing most people on earth,
turns supernatural towards the end.

Alas Babylon, by Pat Frank.  The first (?) survivalist book.  Nuclear
war survival in rural Florida.

No Blade of Grass, by John Christopher? A plague wipes out all food
grains over most of the earth.  People fleeing London for Wales, also
forming local alliances and groups.

The Sheep Look Up, by John Brunner.  Survival in an ecologically damaged
America.

Stand on Zanzibar, by John Brunner.  Life in an oppressive police state,
within an ecologically damaged world.

Maleville, by Robert Merle.  Post nuclear war survival in rural France.
Interesting social dramas, not too good for survival skills.

Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.  Useful for understanding the people
responsible for the problems.

Wolf & Iron, by Gordon R. Dickson.  Post economic colapse. Lone wanderer
scavanges and learns his way across several states. Finaly sets up as
blacksmith and farmer rancher.

A Canticle for Leibowitz, by  Walter M. Miller.  A fascinating book
about long-term post apocolypse story, about the value of books and
knowledge.

The Postman, by David Brin.  A great book about a traveller in the
medium - long post nuclear war environment, the establishment of local
and regional governments, and the value of a travelling postman to carry
news from one region to another.

Earth Abides by George R Steward.  Pandemic survivors find each other
and build comunities initially based on scavanging.  Inertia causes
little of predisaster technology and culture to be passed on, causing
great anguish to main charater.

Survivors by Terry Nation.  Pneumonic plauge strain spread by air travel
kills off most of the population.  Set in Great Britain, a survivor
group failing under pressure from bad weather and hostile neighbors
migrates to the south of France. Strangely enough Brits will use guns if
they can get them.

The Folk of the Fringe by Orson Scott Card.  Short stories set shortly
after a socital colapse. All stories are about Mormons or converts.

All Fools' Day by Edmund Cooper.  A new type of radation (yuk yuk)
causes most of mankind to commit suicide. The immune are 'creative
artists of all kinds, lunatics, political and reigious fanatics,
prostitutes and pathological animal lovers.' Set in Great Britain.

Harvest of Stars, by Poul Anderson:  America where political correctness
has become a religion and taken over.  One must think ahead and be on
ones toes at all times in dealing with a police state; acting experience
is a plus!

Vandenberg, by Oliver Lange.  Life in a United States occupied by Soviet
(or whatever) troops.  Frightening.

Warday and Nature's End, by Whitley Straub

The Ends of the Circle, by Paul O. Williams

Some Will Not Die, by Algis Budrys.  Post pandemic in New York City Son
of inital main char forms the "Reunification Army" to create the "Second
Republic." Guns guns and more guns and living on 20 year old canned
goods. Still not a bad story.

Only Lovers Left Alive by Dave Wallis.  Set in Britain, virtually
everyone over 19 commits suicide over a 2 year period.  A street gang
rises to the conquest of London metro area but finds it tough going in
the country when the canned good run out.

"Out of the Ashes" series by William Johnstone.  The first is excellent
on establishing attitude and the others each have a few tidbits in them.
His Tri-states concept is developing almost a cult-like following in
some areas.  Most of the later volumes are just pay copy (Is there any
other reason to write?) so you have to wade through a lot of story line
to pick out the good parts.  He writes interesting copy so it isn't a
chore.

Path to Savagery by Robert Edmund Alter.  The world after a minor
nuclear war.  The polar ice caps have melted, flooding the coast lines.
North America is suffering from a drought and millions of people are
dead.  The hero is a "loner" who avoids interacting with the tribes that
most of the survivors have joined.  He has a Thompson sub-machine gun
and the right attitude.

The Castle Keeps by Andrew J Offutt.  American life has gradually gone
to hell in a handbasket, especially in the cities.  Story of a family
that moved to a farm determined to do what it takes to survive and live
well.  My only complaint with this book is that the protagonist uses a
Colt .45 SAA instead of a M1911.    Other than this, he scenes involving
firearms are very well done.

Winters Daughter by Charles Whitmore.  Told in the style of a Norse
Saga, the life of a woman born in Africa just after a nuclear war, to
American and Norse parents. She lives in N. America and Norway, goes
down swinging in a feud in Norway in the best saga tradition.

The Long Loud Silence by Wilson Tucker.  Bio war wipes out USA east of
Mississippi.  The story of an "immune" (all such are carrers). Canablism
is adopted by some survivors.

The day of the triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

"Z for Zachariah" fictional account of a young woman surviving the
aftermath of a nuclear war on her parents farm.  Very weak on science.
She lives in a protected valley, and everything outside the valley is
dead.  Then one day a man shows up who invented a radiation proof suit
with a pushcart (since cars are radioactive).  She hides in the woods,
unsure of what to do.  Finally she shows herself, but not before he
drinks from a radioactive pond.  He gets sick, she helps him, he
eventualy tries to rape her, and she hides again.  It had some good
points, such as hiding her garden, geting fuel from pumps w/o
electricity, and what to do with her dog, since it could be used by the
man to find her.  (reviewer) read it in Jr High school in the school
library, so its at least 13 old, and intended for younger readers.








                       Magazines and Periodicals

American Survival Guide, McMullen & Yee Publishing, 774 South Placentia
Ave. Placentia, CA  92670  (714) 572-2255 Monthly, $26.95 / year.

Backwoods Home Magazine, 1257 Siskiyou Blvd. #213, Ashland, Or  97520
Bi-monthly, $17.95.

Back Home Magazine, Wordsworth Communications, 110 Third Ave. West,
Hendersonville, NC  28792.  Quarterly, $16.00 / year.

Home Power, P.O. Box 520, Ashland, Or  97520.  Bi-monthly, $15.00 /
year.

The Wild Foods Forum, Box 61413, Virginia Beach VA  23462.  Bimonthly,
$15/yr, $2 for sample.



                             Usenet Groups

Groups you might be interested in, besides misc.survivalism
                                             
alt.architecture - alternative building techniques
alt.engr.explosives - for more serious explosives.
alt.energy.renewable
alt.radio.scanner
misc.consumer.housing
misc.emergency-services - Emergency medical and Search and Rescue
misc.rural
rec.firearms
rec.hunting
rec.pets.dogs - for your 4-legged friends
rec.radio.* - all sorts of radios and technology
rec.radio.shortwave
rec.pyrotechnics - if you're interested in things that go boom.



               USENET FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions)

FAQ's that might be of interest.  Some parts have been incorporated
here, but many others have not.

rec.pyrotechnics
rec.backpacking
rec.firearms
rec.radio.shortwave



                           Movies and Videos

The Day of the Triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

Amerika - TV movie about life in the US following an invasion and
takeover by the Soviet Union.  Interesting in terms of infrastructure
that was no longer present (phone service?) and how a resistance
organization grew.

Testament

Survivors TV series - 38 Episodes based on the Book.

Red Dawn - Soviet backed forces from Nicaragua invade Colorado, high
school students form resistance movement and fight back.

Zulu - British Soldiers in Colonial Africa fight against thousands of
Zulu warriors.  Interesting in terms of command relationships.

Zulu Dawn

Alive - Movie about the survivors of a plane crash in the Andes, who
resort to canibalism.

5 Returned?  About nuclear war in the Los Angeles area.  An identifying
scene of stopping traffic on the freeway by throwing a bucket of
gasoline across it, and setting it afire.  Anyone know what the name
really is?  How about a copy?

-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
			 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From decastro@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:26:05 EST 1995
Article: 7704 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Sources.List ver 0.16
Message-ID: <decastroD49Fx8.DF5@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:41:32 GMT
Lines: 686
Sender: decastro@netcom4.netcom.com

                        Sources, rev 0.16


Disclaimer:  Much of the information here is from the FAQ's of other
USENET groups.  I don't know if the companies are still in business, or
if the information about them is accurate.  If something's wrong, let me
know and I'll update this list.  Send updates to decastro@netcom.com.


Changes in rev 0.16:  Added more sources.




Real Goods Catalog, Real Goods Trading Company 966 Mazzoni St Ukiah, Ca
95482 800-762-7325 (orders) 707-468-0301 (tech) 707-468-0301 (FAX)

A.I. Root Company
    P.O. Box 706
    Medina, Ohio 44258
    1-800 BUY ROOT (1-800-289-7668)
    Beekeeping supplies.

A.M. Leonard, Inc.
    6665 Spiker Road
    PO Box 816
    Piqua, Ohio 45356
    Good prices, fast service on nursery supplies.

Alternate Energy Engineering
    PO Box 339
    Redway, Ca 95560
    800-777-6609

Adventure Medical Kits  (first aid supplies)
     Berlekey CA              510 531 9610


Adventure Outfitters  (discounter)
    514 So. College Ave.
    Ft. Collins CO 80524
    303 224 2460
    800 622 4486

Argent
    1-800-426-6258 (US)
    1-800-663-2871 (Canada)
    Ask for their free catalogue and their book catalogue.  They hav
    aquaculture chemicals and equipment, and an extensive selection
    of books.

Austree, Inc
    Pescadero, CA
    1-800-638-1441
    Fast-growing hybrid trees.

Bailey's, Inc.
    44650 Hwy. 101, Box 550
    Laytonville, CA 95454
    Ph: 707-984-6133
    Orders: 800-322-4539
    They've got lots of serious stuff for those who cut wood.  They
    do seem to be reasonably priced."  Dave Sill

Brigade Quartermasters (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     1025 Cobb International Bl    
     Kennesaw GA 30144-4300
     Catalog Order       800-338-4327
     Customer Service    404-428-1234
     FAX  800-829-2999

Brownells Gunsmithing Parts and supplies.
     200 S. Front St.
     Montezuma, IA 50171
     515-623-5401

Burden's Surplus Center
     Nebraska
     1-800-488-3407
     They have lots of 12 V pumps of various types, as well as lots of
     other neat stuff rural types might like. Best of all, they have
     good prices.

Cabela's  (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     812-13th. Ave.
     Sidney NE 69160
	  Catalog Order       800-237-4444
	  Customer Service    800-237-8888
	  FAX                 308-254-2200

CAMPMOR   (Camping-Bike-Backpacking)
     801 route 17 North
     Order Dept. Box 997-H
     Paramus NJ 07653-0997
	  Catalog Order       800-526-4784
	  Customer Service    800-525-4784
		    FAX  20447-5559
     a large catalog, often the best prices.
     One retail store in Paramus.

Cheyenne Outfitters      (Western)
     P O Box 12013
     Cheyenne  WY 82003-1219
	  Catalog Order       800-234-0432
	  Customer Service    307-775-7575

Cumberland General Store
      Rt 3 Box 81
      Crossville, TN 38555
      800/334-4640
      Same as Lehman's but bigger selection; e.g. includes buggies and
      buggy parts, horse drawn equipment, blacksmithing tools (though
      these are better bought used), patent medicines, etc.  Catalog is
      $3 (refundable)  "old time general merchandise".  About 270
      pages of "Goods in Endless Variety for Man & Beast".

Daisy Kingdom  (outdoor fabrics and also patterns)
   134 NW 8th
   Portland, OR
   (503) 222-9033             

Delorme Publishing Co.
     P.O. Box 298,
     Freeport, ME  04032
     (207) 865-4171

Map atlas and gazetteers for many States, combines current topographic
data with updates for man-made structures into a folio-sized full color
map book.

Delta Press  They carry many of the books listed and ship world wide.
Plus, they're smart enough to have an e-mail address!

        P.O. Box 1625
        El Dorado, AR
        1-800-852-4445
        email:deltagrp@eldonet.com

Dillon Precision Products
     7442 E. Butherus Dr
     Scottsdale, Az  85260

     (800) 223 4570 (Sales)
     (800) 762-3845 (Catalog Requests)

Probably the best firearms reloading equipment made, with the best
customer service I've EVER seen.

Don Gleason    (Camping-Backpacking)
     PO Box 87-9 Pearl St.
     Northhampton MA 0106 0087
	  Catalog Order       800-257-0019
	  Customer Service    413-584-4895
		    FAX       413-586-8770
     a line similar to Campmor (Eureka, Northface, Coleman etc.)
     with a few interesting  odds and ends like Eastwing rock tools
     and gold pans, bulk shock cord, a whole page of bulk propane
     fittings and adaptors, and bulk tanks......  They state they
     have a no hassle return policy and 1 yr warranty.  Their retail
     store is located one block south of the intersection of route 5
     and route 9 (Main St.) in Northampton, Mass.  1 mile from exit
     18 of interstate 91, 15 minutes North of exit 4 of the Mass
     Turnpike (West Springfield exit).

Down Home   (sleeping bags)
     west fork road 
     Deadwood, Oregon, 97430  
			 503 964 3012

Dunns     (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     Hwy 57E PO Box 449
     Grand Junction TN 38039
	  Catalog Order       800-223-8667
	  Customer Service    800-367-2940
		    FAX       901-764-6503

Dyna Med  (first-aid supplies and kits, reasonable prices)  
     cust service             800 334 8211 
     orders                   800 854 2706 
     
Early Winters  (Ski-Camping)
     PO Box 4333
     Portland OR 97208-4333
	  Catalog Order       800-458-4438
	  Customer Service    800-821-1286
		    FAX       503-643-1973

Eastern Mountain Sports (EMS) (general backcountry equipment)
			 603 924 9571
     EMS does not have a mail order catalog, but has
     a large number of retail stores in the East. At
     least some of these stores will accept phone orders.
     Sale flyers are mailed to local lists.  Check your
     local phone book.

Eddie Bauer    (Camping-Backpacking)
     Fifth and  Union
     PO Box 3700
     Seattle WA. 98124-3700
	  Catalog Order       800-426-8020 
	  Customer Service    800-426-6253
		    FAX       206-869-4629

EEB

Fair Radio Sales Co.  (Surplus military and other electronic devices,
including radios and telephones)
     P.O. Box 1105
     1016 E. Eureka St.
     Lima OH 45802
     419-223-2196
     419-227-6573
     419-227-1313 24hr Fax.

Feathered Friends  (Camping - Backpacking - Climbing) 
     15161 11th. Avenue
     Seattle WA 98122
	  Catalog Order    206-324-4166 or 441-8229
	  FAX                 206-443-9567
     "Yes Feathered Friends have gone mail order and they are
     stocking a lot of other items that they don't make. The catalog
     sent me was for climbing equipment. It was titled the Haulbag.
     But there sleeping bags and other items were also shown."

Fox Ridge Outfitters     (Camping-Hunting)
     400North Main St.
     PO Box 1700
     Rochester NH 03867
	  Catalog Order       800-243-4570
		    FAX       603-332-5133

Frostline Kits
     2512 W. Independent Avenue            
     Grand Junction, CO  81505-7200
			 800-548-7872
     "They carry pre-cut down kits but also sell uncut fabrics 
     and bulk down and holofil."

Galls, Inc.
      2470 Palumbo Dr.
      P.O. Box 54308,
      Lexington, Ky  40555
      1-800-4777766.

      Mostly Police equipment, good sources for flashlights, EMS and
Firefighting equipment, other odd things.

Gander Mountain, Inc. (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     Also ask about their specialty catalogs.
     Box 248 Hwy. W
     Wilmot WI 53192
	  Catalog Order       800-558-9410  
	  Customer Service    800-426-3371
		    FAX       800-533-2828

Gilfer Shortwave.  Shortwave Radios (especially scanners) and
publications.
     Gilfer Shortwave
     52 Park Ave
     Park Ridge, NJ 07656
     800-Gilfer-1

Granite Gear
     Highway 2
     Two Harbors, Minnesota  55616
     Tel. 218 834 6157

Grove Electronics - Shortwave Radios and information
     P.O. Box 98
     300 S. Highway 64 West
     Brasstown, NC 28902-0098


The Green Pepper  (fabrics, including neoprene)
     3918 West First Avenue 
     Eugene, OR  97402
			 (800) 767-5684

Indiana Camp Supply (general camping, medical)
     Loveland Colorado
	  Phone               303-669-8884
     "A large collection of medical and first aid items for back
     country use    ICS has changed ownership, and isn't in Indiana
     now.  Don't know if anything else has changed).  ICS is also a
     publisher of backcountry-related books."

Keel-Haulers Outfitters       (Kayak,Canoe, Scuba.)
     30940 Lorain Rd.
     N. Olmsted, OH 44070
	  Catalog Order       216-779-4545
     {testimonial to wonderful service and good prices deleted}

Kerr Controls Ltd.
     P.O. Box 1500
     Truro, Nova Scotia
     Canada B2N 5V2
     They make wood-fired boilers and wood-fired warm-air furnaces.
     
Lands End  (general clothing)
     1 Lands'end Lane
     Dept JW
     Dodgeville WI 53594
	  Catalog Order       800-356-4444

Lehman Hardware and Appliances (Non-Electric Catalog, Amish supplier)
     One Lehman Circle,  P.O. Box 41 Kidron, Ohio  44636
     Catalog Order 216-857-5757 FAX 216-857-5785

Cast iron cookware,oil/kerosene lamps, kerosene/LP refrigerators and
freezers, wood cooking stoves, pumps (pump heads, cylinders, drop-pipe,
pump rods), ram pumps, water filters, dutch ovens, peelers/pitters,
dryers/canners/juicers/presses, composting toilets, and all sorts of
tools and farm implements that an Amish farmer would use.

Leisure Outlet      (Packs, Bags, Tents )
     421 Soquel Av
     Santa Cruz CA 95062
	  Catalog Order  800-322-1460
	  Customer Service    408-335-7657
	       FAX       408-457-2682 / 457-0888

L.L. Bean (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-First Aid-Backpacking)
     Freeport ME 04033
	  Catalog Order       800-221-4221
	  Customer Service    800-341-4341
     Ask about their specialty catalogs.  
     Low shipping fee.  good customer satisfaction reputation; their
     retail store is a "must-see" when in Maine.  Also, if you are
     in the area: the LLBean closeout store on Rt. 16 in North
     Conway, NH.  Very good prices stock from discontinued lines
     and, I believe, on seconds and returns.  I've never seen this
     outlet advertised.

Major Suplus & Survival
     435 W. Alondra Bl.
     Gardena CA. 90248
     Catalog Order (LA area)  310-324-8855
     Catalog Order       800-441-8855
     Customer Service  FAX  310-324-6909

Mass *Army* Navy* Store (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     15 Fordham Rd.
     Boston MA 02134
	  Catalog Order       800-343-7749
	  Customer Service    617-783-1250
	  FAX                 617-254-6607

MCA Sports (Cartridge converters - see Tappans Survival Guns)
     P.O. Box 8868
     Palm Springs, CA 92263
     619-770-2005

Moore Medical, Ask for the EMS catalog            
			 800 234 1464
     "Moore carries many medical supplies found on a BLS ambulance
     at low to reasonable prices.  A few other accessories, but not
     extensive."  (jdeifik@isi.edu)

Micro Bio-medics [otherwise known as MBM]
     Supplies and equipment for sports medicine, first aid, EMS, and
     school nurses.
     MBM, Inc. 717 South Third Ave Mt. Vernon, NY
	  800-431-2743 914-699-1700 914-699-1759 FAX
     MBM, Inc. 8930 Western Way, Suite 5 Jacksonville, FL 32256
	  800-345-9883 904-363-1396
     MBM - Arcade First Aid Division    211 Harbor Way South San
Francisco,
	  CA  94080 800-241-6555 415-589-6037 415-589-0812 FAX
	       
Mountain Equipment Co-op. 
     Mail Order Store    
     1665 W. 3rd Ave
     Vancouver, BC V6J 1K1
	  Catalog Order (US & Canada)800-663-2667 
	  Local or International   604-732-1537
		    FAX       604-736483 
     (Canada's answer to REI) $5.00 lifetime membership, 
     their own brand of clothing and packs (and other 
     things)  Retail stores:
	  Vancouver Store     (604)872-7858
	  428 West 8th Ave
	  Vancouver, BC V5Y 1N9

	  Calgary Store       (403)269-2420
	  1009-4th Ave S.W.
	  Calgary, AB T2P 0K8

	  Toronto Store       (416)363-0122
	  35 Front St. East
	  Toronto, ON M5E 1B3

	  Ottawa Store        (613)745-1094
	  5B Beechwood St.
	  Ottawa, ON K1M 1M2

Mountain Mend   (backcountry fabrics)
	  1580 Canyon
	  Boulder, CO 
		      (303) 443-1925

Narain's Outdoor Equipment          (Gore-tex)
     in Berkeley next door to REI
		    415 527-2509

Native Seeds/SEARCH
P.O. Box 4865
Albuquerque, NM 87196
(505) 268-9233

 -or-

Native Seeds/SEARCH
2509 N. Campbell Ave.
No. 235
Tucson, AZ 85719
(602) 327-9123


Nexco
     Box 13081
     Ogden, UT 84412-3081
     (800) 597-4743
     Fax: 801 394-5863
     E-mail Snexco@delphi.com
     Sells Military, Police, Survival, Camping  and  Emergency  items.
     They test and use all items before putting them in catalog.  The
     prices seem reasonable, and they have some interesting clothing
     items not usually seen.  They also have personal body armor.

     Also modern and smart enough to have net access!

NITRO-PAK                     213 802 0099
     13243 Rosecrans Avenue 
     Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670-4940
     first aid supplies ($5 catalog)    
	  
The North Face Factory Outlet store     
     1238 5th St. 
     Berkeley CA 94710
     510 526 3530   800 388 7998
     Medford Outlet Center
     303 County Road 12, S.W.
     Medford, MN 55049
     (ph) 507-455-3120
     (fax) 507-455-3739

Northern Hydraulics
    P.O. Box 1499
    Burnsville, MN 55337-0499
    800-533-5545  or 612-894-8310  (fax) 612-894-0003
    Generators, Gasoline Engines, and miscellaneous Good Stuff

Off Line -  alternative energy equipment
     P.O. Box 231
     North Fork, CA 93643
     (209) 877-7080

Omaha Vaccine Company
     1-800-367-4444
     Veterinary vaccines and supplies.

Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics  (208)466-1602
     16195 Latah Drive
     Nampa, ID  83651
     "I've only dealt with them once, but they were very helpful,
     and they have anything you might dream of in terms of
     outdoor fabrics (cordura, packcloth, lycra, neoprene,
     goretex, etc.)"

Out N Back
     PO Box 1279
     Provo, UT 84603
     801-224-0454
     Toll Free 800-533-7415

Pacific Yurts, Inc.
     77456 Hwy 99S
     Cottage Grove, OR 97424
     (503) 942-9435 voice
     (503) 942-0508 fax
     (800) 944-0240 voice

Paladin Press
     P.O. Box 1307
     Boulder, CO  80306
     1-800-3922400
     The catalog alone is an education.  Books on almost anything, from
     making firearms to explosives, finding people and not being found,
     etc.

Plants of the Southwest
     Agua Fria
     Rt 6 Box 11A
     Santa Fe, NM 87505
     (800) 788-SEED (Orders only, 24 hrs per day, US20 minimum) (505)
     471-2212 (9AM to 5 PM, M-F) Mail order (505) 344-8830 Albuquerque
     store (505) 428-8888 Sata Fe store
     Plants of the Southwest has a great catalog (for US3.50) containing
     native seeds for vegetables, grasses (native, low water, low growing),
     flowers, shrubs, and trees.  This aint a Burbee catalog!

PFI Western Store    (Western)
     2743 W Chestnut Exp
     Springfield MO 65802
	  Catalog Order       800-284-8191
	  Customer Service    800-284-8191
	       
Piragis Northwoods Outfitters (Canoe Camping)
     105B North Central Ave. 
     Ely MN 55731
	  Catalog Order       800-223-6565
     general catalog plus unique Boundary Waters items - books,
     maps, etc.  They are also a complete outfitter, with all sorts
     of rental equipment.  They rent light kevlar Wenonah canoes.

Ponderosa Products,
     2467 Ballantyne Lane,
     Eagle, ID  83616
     208 /939-1513
     ask for "CAREY" MRE's, Camping and Military Equipment.

Quest Outfitters              (800)359-6931
     2590 17th St. Suite B
     Sarasota, FL 34234
     "outdoor fabrics as well as zippers, threads, needles, liners,
     fills, and patterns."

Ramsey Outdoor
	  Catalog Order       201-261-5000
	  Customer Service    800-526-7436 

The Rainshed   (outdoor fabrics)   (503)753-8900
     707 NW 11th
     Corvallis, OR 97330
     "outdoor fabrics as well as zippers, threads, needles, liners,
     fills, and patterns." "We just ordered a large quantity of
     fabric from Rainshed after considering both them and several
     others including Quest Outfitters.  The Rainshed was anywhere
     from $2 to $8 cheaper per yard.  The Rainshed also has serves
     businesses with a tax id number with a discounted wholesale
     rate and no minium on fabrics. (12/92)"
     jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu)

Recreational Equipment Inc. REI (Camping-climbing-Backpacking-Bike-Ski)
     45th. Street East
     Summer WA 98352-0001
	  Catalog Order       800-426-4840
	  Customer Service    800-828-5533
		    FAX       206-891-2523
     "member-owned co-op;  some unique items including their own line
     of tents and clothing and lots of technical rock climbing
     equipment.  This is a membership-owned co-op.   Members get an
     annual 5% to 10% rebate on purchases.  Life membership $10.00
     Retail stores mostly in large urban areas, also mail order.  Highly
     recommended - their own line is always a good value."


Seeds of Change
     POB 15700
     Santa Fe, New Mexico 87506-5700
     1-505-438-8080 phone (9am-5pm MT)
     1-505-438-7052 FAX (24hrs)
     Toll-free catalog request line is
     1-800-957-3337
     Seeds cost $1.99 for each packet, volume and other discounts may
     apply.

Sequel    (clothing)
     PO Box 3185 
     98 Everett St
     Durango CO 81302-3185    
     303 385 4660

Sierra Supply (MRE's, military supplies and equipment)
     P.O. Box 1390
     Durango, CO 81301
     303-259-1822

Sierra-Riteway Mfg. Co.
     1680 Country Club Road
     Harrisonburg, VA 22801
     They make wood/coal-fired and wood/coal/oil or wood/coal/gas
     fired boilers.

Solar Electric Engineering, Inc
     175 Cascade Court
     Rohnert Park, CA 94928
     707-586-1987 fax: 707 586-0690
     Catalog $3.00 solar electric and hot water systems.

Shomer-tec
     Box 28070
     Bellingham, Washington 98228
     Phone: (360)733-6214
     Interesting specialty ammunition items for law enforcement and others.

Sierra Trading Post (Camping-Fishing-Backpacking)
     5025 Campstool Rd.
     Cheyenne WY 82007
     Catalog Order       307-775-8000
     Customer Service
     FAX       307-775-8088

The Sportsman's Guide (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     965 Decatur Ave. North
     Golden Valley Minnesota 55427-4398
     Catalog Order       800-888-3006
     Customer Service    800-888-5222
     FAX  800-333-6933


Screaming Eagle     (Hunting)
     PO Box 4507
     Missoula Montana 59806
     Catalog Order       800-458-2017
     Customer Service    406-543-1114

Smokey Mountain Knife Works   (Knife)
     PO Box 4430 
     Sevierville TN 37864-4430
	  Catalog Order       800-259-1306 
	  Customer Service    800-327-5871
		    FAX  615-429-0182   

Storey's Hard-to-Find Books for Country Living
     Schoolhouse Rd
     Pownal, VT 05261
     800-827-8673  Canada: 800-445-3906
     Customer assistance 413-664-7195
     Everything from "The Craft of Smocking" to "Be your Own Chimney
     Sweep"

Sunelco, Alternative power supplies
     Sunelco
     100 Skeels St
     P.O. Box 1499
     Hamilton, MT 59840-1499
     (800) 338-6844.

The Third Hand ( Bike-Ski  Tools)
     PO Box 212 
     Mt. Shasta CA 96067
	  Catalog Order       916-926-2600
		    FAX  916-926-2663

Trace Engineering
    5917 195th N.E.
    Arlington, WA 98223
    (206) 435-8826  Power equipment.


USGS Map Sales  (backcountry topo maps)
     Federal Center
     P.O. Box 25286
     Denver, CO   80225
			 303-236-7477

U.S. Plastic Corp.
     1390 Neubrecht Road
     Lima, Ohio 45801
     1(800)537-9724

A variety of durable containers in a wide range of sizes.

VauDe USA ( Clothing-Bags, all types-Tents)
     5311 Western Av  Suite A
     Boulder CO 80301
	  Catalog Order       800-886-8283

Wholesale Veterinary Supply
    POB 2256
    Rockford, IL 61131
    800/435-6940
    Good selection of veterinary supplies at good prices.

Wyoming River Raiders    (Camping, Kayaking, Canoeing and Rafting
     601 Wyoming Blvd
     Casper, WY 82609 
     Catalog Order       800-247-6068


-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
			 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From batemach@ucs.orst.edu Sun Mar 12 16:27:21 EST 1995
Article: 8154 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!news
From: batemach@ucs.orst.edu (Chester Bateman)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Recommendation of a good Survival Book?
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 95 18:44:17 EST
Organization: University Computing Services - Oregon State University
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <3j8kop$iih@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
References: <3j35q6$725@Sequoia.picosof.com> <3j4lho$q62@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <Pine.OSF.3.91.950303013450.10060C-100000@ucs.orst.edu>
Reply-To: batemach@ucs.orst.edu
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Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.9

I would include John Wiseman's "THE SAS SURVIVAL HANDBOOK".  He does an 
excellent job at communicating his 26yrs of teaching outdoor survival at 
the Special Air Service organization.  The text includes quality 
illustrations and common sense.  I would also include in your library an 
Urban Survival Book.  I think John has also written on this topic.

I would like to know of an excellent book on urban survival -- any 
comments?

Chet
Oregon

In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.950303013450.10060C-100000@ucs.orst.edu>, 
nygrenj@ucs.orst.edu says...
>
>
>Depending on your definition of survival, the following is an excellent 
>resource:
>
>Practical Outdoor Survival, by Len McDougall
>
>Excerpt from the back:
>
>Here is a thoroughly practical, "hands on" guide to wilderness survival 
>by a teacher of survival procedures who has used these techniques 
himself 
>in genuine survival situations.  Most guides to wilderness survival 
>assume that one wants--or needs--to live like the 19th century mountain 
>men, lacking modern technology and materials.  Len McDougall disagrees. 
 
>Using modern materials (e.g. space blanket) the modern survivalist has 
>better means to live unscathed in the wilderness than anyone in ages 
past.
>
>Covered here are complete instructions for assembling the basic survival 
>kit, constructing shelters of all kinds and in varying weather and 
>terrain, obtaining food and water, rescue strategies, compass use, 
>fishing and hunting with emergency gear, and much, much more.
>
>----------------------
>
>I would highly recommend this book to anyone even remotely interested in 
>survival.  It is published by Lyons & Burford Publishers, 31 W 21 St. 
New 
>York, NY 10010.
>
>



From nadir@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:27:30 EST 1995
Article: 8207 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!nadir
From: nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra)
Subject: Re: Recommendation of a good Survival Book?
Message-ID: <nadirD51CuC.2pI@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3j35q6$725@Sequoia.picosof.com> <3j4lho$q62@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <Pine.OSF.3.91.950303013450.10060C-100000@ucs.orst.edu> <3j8kop$iih@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 20:27:48 GMT
Lines: 23
Sender: nadir@netcom14.netcom.com

Chester Bateman (batemach@ucs.orst.edu) wrote:
: I would include John Wiseman's "THE SAS SURVIVAL HANDBOOK".  He does an 
: excellent job at communicating his 26yrs of teaching outdoor survival at 
: the Special Air Service organization.  The text includes quality 
: illustrations and common sense.  I would also include in your library an 
: Urban Survival Book.  I think John has also written on this topic.

Have to agree - this is a great book.  I recommend the 'Collins  Gem' 
edition (not available from US distributors - call around in Canada) as 
it contains 100% of the info and graphics from the large format book in a 
2.5" x 4" (approx.) format - much easier to take along when you travel. 

: I would like to know of an excellent book on urban survival -- any 
: comments?

sadly, I wasn't as impressed with Wiseman's effort on Urban Survival.

-Nadir
-- 
	nadir@netcom.com = Nadir A. El Farra in Los Angeles
"Let us rise up tonight with a greater readiness. Let us stand with
greater determination. And let us move in these powerful days, these
days of challenge, to make  America what it ought to be."Dr. MLK, Jr.
		   ***** DON'T TREAD ON ME *****


From RJGorman@mv.com Sun Mar 12 16:27:46 EST 1995
Article: 8194 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!mv!news-cnh.mv.net!usenet
From: RJGorman@mv.com
Subject: Re: Recommendation of a good Survival Book? 
Message-ID: <NEWTNews.20536.794477951.Postmaster@rjgorman.mv.com.mv.com>
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> Timothy Moeller (tem@rocket.cc.umr.edu) wrote:
> : Troniac (deanm@sensemedia.net) wrote:
> : :}Looking for a book that is instructional on surviving of the land
> : Try to find "Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival"  it is the
> : best survival book I have found yet...
> 
> : Walrus
> 
> 
> --
> I second the recommendation of Tom Brown's book.  He has several out, 
> including one on tracking, and one one edible plants.
>  	Published by Berkley Books, New York.
> 

For a great book try "Survival Training" writting by the Air Force for pilots. 
 Its only like $19 and is over 600 pages.  You can get from the Government 
Printing office.  AF Regulation 64-4 Volume I.

Robert Gorman



From tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca Sun Mar 12 16:28:31 EST 1995
Article: 8203 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!pavo.concordia.ca!tj_moll
From: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: FAQ: misc.survivalism
Date: 6 Mar 1995 11:15 -0500
Organization: Bavarian Illuminati
Lines: 131
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pavo1.concordia.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Welcome to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for misc.survivalism!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
               Modified last on September 17, 1994
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More than just a list of questions and answers, FAQ's are short introductions
to the community that subscribe to the newsgroup. In misc.survivalism,
we discuss survival theory. If there was one line we could lift out of
our charter to sum up the group it would be, "The prevailing philosophy
of misc.survivalism is that I and the ones I love want to remain alive
no matter what." As misc. survivalism is a new group, the FAQ will be
posted frequently untill we have made arrangements for this to be available
either through FTB or WWW.

Q) What can we talk about on misc.survivalism?

A) Anything to do with survival theory, including emergency prepardness.
Need plans for a shelter? Ask. Fly an aircraft and want to know what to
what to pack "just in case"? Ask. Hate firearms and want to spout off?
_Don't_ ask - see next question. Love firearms and want to talk about
them? _Don't_. See next question.

Q) What _don't_ you talk about in misc.survivalism?

A) There are two main categories of posting _not_ appreciated on m.s.
There is no moderator on this group - we like it that way. Post things
in these two categories and you will get lots of hate mail...

 1) Personal objections to theory which do not include survivalist/
emergency prepardness material. For example, if one person describes
his technique for food hoarding - and you think it immoral - write to
him or her in email. Don't put it on the group. Same thing about
firearms, we're not pro- or anti-gun as a group. Individual members
who wish to talk about that topic can go to talk.politics.guns, those
wishing to discuss firearms in general can go to rec.guns.
    If someone posts something about survivalist therory which you
believe is _technically_ wrong (like description of an edible plant
for example) then go ahead and discuss that.

 2) Postings which have nothing to do with our group. Someone who wants
to know what to do with his collection of 15 illegal automatics belongs
on rec.guns. Contrary to some misinformed users, we did _not_ split
from rec.guns and do _not_ want to duplicate their group. Also don't spam
us with ads for skin cream, lottery tickets, x-rated videos etc... Keep
on topic, flames belong in alt.flame or through email.

Q) How is this group controled?

A) As said before, misc. survivalism is not moderated. We operate on
common sense. If you see someone posting up non-survivalist material,
we encourage you to send them a followup by email asking them to keep
on target. No one wants a newsgroup with 150+ messages a day with
only 25 posts of any substance...

Q) Who's reading this group?

A) There were over 400 people who voted for this group's creation. When
I was starting this up, I met many of them through email. They come from
as far away as Germany and Australia and from all walks of life. They are
weekend campers, Boy Scout leaders, officers and enlisted men from armies
all around the globe, or just people concerned with their safety. Something
that surprised me (that really shouldn't have) is the number of women
who mailed me during the groups proposal.

Q) Anyone _else_ reading this group?

A) By the very nature of survivalist theory, some people raise their
eyebrows in suspicion. Therefore keep in mind that this is a public
newsgroup and _anyone_ who has net access can read this group. This
includes government agencies, so while it's not (at least on this group)
prohibited to discuss techniques or actions which stray outside legal
frameworks - it might be prudent to think carefully before putting
your name on such a post. Using an anonymous server (one not based
in your country) would be a helpful option.

Q) I have a question not covered by this FAQ.

A) I'm sure there are lots. This FAQ is still in its infancy. So for
now, follow the above rules and you'll be fine. Questions I see
repeated often will be added here.

Q) Who are you?

A) I am the proposer of misc.survivalism. For now I also do the FAQ, this
might change if someone else wants the job... You can contact me by email
at <tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca>.

Q) Where can I look for more information?

A) Wendell <wendellj@quick.com> has suggested a few books which might be
helpful for getting basic information on the survival topic. Please mail
any suggestions for additions (or deletions :) ) directly to him.

General Books
C.G. Cobb, Bad Times Primer.  This provides an overview of most fields of
self-reliance and makes recommendations for equipment and fields of study.
Note that it was written around 1979, so some information is out of date.

Bruce Clayton, Life After Doomsday.  Primarily focused around nuclear war
survival skills, this book provides basic information on survival skills
and, more important, references to find out more about those
skills covered in brief.  This was written in the late 1970s, so some of
the information is out of date.

Self-Reliance
 Colin Fletcher, The Complete Walker
 Dean Ing, The Chernobyl Syndrome
 Mel Tappan, Tappan On Survival

Nuclear War Survival
 Dean Ing, Pulling Through
 Cresson Kearny, Nuclear War Survival Skills

Firearms
 Massad Ayoob, The Truth About Self Protection
 Massad Ayoob, Stressfire
 Mel Tappan, Survival Guns

Reference Books
 American Radio Relay League, The Radio Amateur's Handbook
 CRC Press, CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics ["The Rubber Bible"]
 Medical Economics Company, Physicians Desk Reference



-----
Thomas Moll aka -Fnord   | 
Concordia University     |    "Back where I come from Lion,
Department of Journalism |     we have men who are called heroes..."
Montreal, Quebec, Canada |   

(WWW home page) http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp/fnord.html


From tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca Sun Mar 12 16:28:35 EST 1995
Article: 8203 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!pavo.concordia.ca!tj_moll
From: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: FAQ: misc.survivalism
Date: 6 Mar 1995 11:15 -0500
Organization: Bavarian Illuminati
Lines: 131
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pavo1.concordia.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Welcome to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for misc.survivalism!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
               Modified last on September 17, 1994
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More than just a list of questions and answers, FAQ's are short introductions
to the community that subscribe to the newsgroup. In misc.survivalism,
we discuss survival theory. If there was one line we could lift out of
our charter to sum up the group it would be, "The prevailing philosophy
of misc.survivalism is that I and the ones I love want to remain alive
no matter what." As misc. survivalism is a new group, the FAQ will be
posted frequently untill we have made arrangements for this to be available
either through FTB or WWW.

Q) What can we talk about on misc.survivalism?

A) Anything to do with survival theory, including emergency prepardness.
Need plans for a shelter? Ask. Fly an aircraft and want to know what to
what to pack "just in case"? Ask. Hate firearms and want to spout off?
_Don't_ ask - see next question. Love firearms and want to talk about
them? _Don't_. See next question.

Q) What _don't_ you talk about in misc.survivalism?

A) There are two main categories of posting _not_ appreciated on m.s.
There is no moderator on this group - we like it that way. Post things
in these two categories and you will get lots of hate mail...

 1) Personal objections to theory which do not include survivalist/
emergency prepardness material. For example, if one person describes
his technique for food hoarding - and you think it immoral - write to
him or her in email. Don't put it on the group. Same thing about
firearms, we're not pro- or anti-gun as a group. Individual members
who wish to talk about that topic can go to talk.politics.guns, those
wishing to discuss firearms in general can go to rec.guns.
    If someone posts something about survivalist therory which you
believe is _technically_ wrong (like description of an edible plant
for example) then go ahead and discuss that.

 2) Postings which have nothing to do with our group. Someone who wants
to know what to do with his collection of 15 illegal automatics belongs
on rec.guns. Contrary to some misinformed users, we did _not_ split
from rec.guns and do _not_ want to duplicate their group. Also don't spam
us with ads for skin cream, lottery tickets, x-rated videos etc... Keep
on topic, flames belong in alt.flame or through email.

Q) How is this group controled?

A) As said before, misc. survivalism is not moderated. We operate on
common sense. If you see someone posting up non-survivalist material,
we encourage you to send them a followup by email asking them to keep
on target. No one wants a newsgroup with 150+ messages a day with
only 25 posts of any substance...

Q) Who's reading this group?

A) There were over 400 people who voted for this group's creation. When
I was starting this up, I met many of them through email. They come from
as far away as Germany and Australia and from all walks of life. They are
weekend campers, Boy Scout leaders, officers and enlisted men from armies
all around the globe, or just people concerned with their safety. Something
that surprised me (that really shouldn't have) is the number of women
who mailed me during the groups proposal.

Q) Anyone _else_ reading this group?

A) By the very nature of survivalist theory, some people raise their
eyebrows in suspicion. Therefore keep in mind that this is a public
newsgroup and _anyone_ who has net access can read this group. This
includes government agencies, so while it's not (at least on this group)
prohibited to discuss techniques or actions which stray outside legal
frameworks - it might be prudent to think carefully before putting
your name on such a post. Using an anonymous server (one not based
in your country) would be a helpful option.

Q) I have a question not covered by this FAQ.

A) I'm sure there are lots. This FAQ is still in its infancy. So for
now, follow the above rules and you'll be fine. Questions I see
repeated often will be added here.

Q) Who are you?

A) I am the proposer of misc.survivalism. For now I also do the FAQ, this
might change if someone else wants the job... You can contact me by email
at <tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca>.

Q) Where can I look for more information?

A) Wendell <wendellj@quick.com> has suggested a few books which might be
helpful for getting basic information on the survival topic. Please mail
any suggestions for additions (or deletions :) ) directly to him.

General Books
C.G. Cobb, Bad Times Primer.  This provides an overview of most fields of
self-reliance and makes recommendations for equipment and fields of study.
Note that it was written around 1979, so some information is out of date.

Bruce Clayton, Life After Doomsday.  Primarily focused around nuclear war
survival skills, this book provides basic information on survival skills
and, more important, references to find out more about those
skills covered in brief.  This was written in the late 1970s, so some of
the information is out of date.

Self-Reliance
 Colin Fletcher, The Complete Walker
 Dean Ing, The Chernobyl Syndrome
 Mel Tappan, Tappan On Survival

Nuclear War Survival
 Dean Ing, Pulling Through
 Cresson Kearny, Nuclear War Survival Skills

Firearms
 Massad Ayoob, The Truth About Self Protection
 Massad Ayoob, Stressfire
 Mel Tappan, Survival Guns

Reference Books
 American Radio Relay League, The Radio Amateur's Handbook
 CRC Press, CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics ["The Rubber Bible"]
 Medical Economics Company, Physicians Desk Reference



-----
Thomas Moll aka -Fnord   | 
Concordia University     |    "Back where I come from Lion,
Department of Journalism |     we have men who are called heroes..."
Montreal, Quebec, Canada |   

(WWW home page) http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp/fnord.html


From tjic@porsche.icd.teradyne.com Sun Mar 12 16:29:01 EST 1995
Article: 8273 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!netcomsv!kiki.icd.teradyne.com!kiki.icd.teradyne.com!tjic
From: tjic@porsche.icd.teradyne.com (Travis Corcoran)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: FAQ: misc.survivalism
Date: 08 Mar 1995 17:27:52 GMT
Organization: Teradyne (Boston)
Lines: 51
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <TJIC.95Mar8122752@porsche.icd.teradyne.com>
References: <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca>
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In-reply-to: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca's message of 6 Mar 1995 11:15 -0500

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


In article <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca> tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord) writes:

>  From: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord)
>  Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
>  Date: 6 Mar 1995 11:15 -0500
>  
>  Welcome to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for misc.survivalism!
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                 Modified last on September 17, 1994
>                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Q) What _don't_ you talk about in misc.survivalism?
>  
>  A) There are two main categories of posting _not_ appreciated on m.s.
>  There is no moderator on this group - we like it that way. Post things
>  in these two categories and you will get lots of hate mail...
>  
>   1) Personal objections to theory
>
>   2) Postings which have nothing to do with our group. 

I would argue that militias, NWO conspiracy theories, debate over the
meaning of the Constitution, etc. don't belong here.

The 1st needs a newsgroup of its own.  Has it been created yet?  The
second should go to alt.conspiracy or somesuch.  The latter should go
on any of the many political groups.

I'm not saying that these topics don't have merit - For example, I'm
interested in Constitutional issues.  However, this does not seem to
be the place for them.

- -- 
TJIC (Travis J.I. Corcoran)                 TJIC@icd.teradyne.com
                         Member NRA, GOAL
 
            opinions(TJIC) != opinions(employer(TJIC))            	
  "Buy a rifle, encrypt your data, and wait for the Revolution!"


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From tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca Sun Mar 12 16:29:32 EST 1995
Article: 8342 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!pavo.concordia.ca!tj_moll
From: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Moderation? was: FAQ: misc.survivalism
Date: 10 Mar 1995 14:42 -0500
Organization: Bavarian Illuminati
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <10MAR199514424523@pavo.concordia.ca>
References: <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca> <TJIC.95Mar8122752@porsche.icd.teradyne.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pavo7.concordia.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <TJIC.95Mar8122752@porsche.icd.teradyne.com>, tjic@porsche.icd.teradyne.com (Travis Corcoran) writes...
>In article <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca> tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord) writes:
> 
>>  From: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord)
>>  Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
>>  Date: 6 Mar 1995 11:15 -0500
>>  
>>  Welcome to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for misc.survivalism!
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>                 Modified last on September 17, 1994
>>                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  Q) What _don't_ you talk about in misc.survivalism?
>>  
>>  A) There are two main categories of posting _not_ appreciated on m.s.
>>  There is no moderator on this group - we like it that way. Post things
>>  in these two categories and you will get lots of hate mail...
>>  
>>   1) Personal objections to theory
>>
>>   2) Postings which have nothing to do with our group. 
> 
>I would argue that militias, NWO conspiracy theories, debate over the
>meaning of the Constitution, etc. don't belong here.
> 
>The 1st needs a newsgroup of its own.  Has it been created yet?  The
>second should go to alt.conspiracy or somesuch.  The latter should go
>on any of the many political groups.
> 
>I'm not saying that these topics don't have merit - For example, I'm
>interested in Constitutional issues.  However, this does not seem to
>be the place for them.

	Some people get quite offended when I email and say, "This
doesn't really have anything to do with survivalism..." It's not
that the topic is frivolous, but it really shouldn't be adding to
the (quite high) noise levels here.

	I am rethinking my rationale for not creating this group as
moderated. A long of commercial ads have also sprung up, maybe 
moderation _is_ the answer.

	What do the rest of you think?


-----
Thomas Moll aka -Fnord   | 
Concordia University     |    "Back where I come from Lion,
Department of Journalism |     we have men who are called heroes..."
Montreal, Quebec, Canada |   

(WWW home page) http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp/fnord.html


From decastro@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:29:45 EST 1995
Article: 8358 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Re: Moderation? was: FAQ: misc.survivalism
Message-ID: <decastroD5AyDD.3p1@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <6MAR199511153934@pavo.concordia.ca> <TJIC.95Mar8122752@porsche.icd.teradyne.com> <10MAR199514424523@pavo.concordia.ca>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 00:51:12 GMT
Lines: 29
Sender: decastro@netcom23.netcom.com

tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord) writes:


>	I am rethinking my rationale for not creating this group as
>moderated. A long of commercial ads have also sprung up, maybe 
>moderation _is_ the answer.

>	What do the rest of you think?

As I said earlier, I don't think moderation is the answer - I don't much
care for moderated groups in general, and if/when we get the milita stuff 
off the group (soon, now, please G-d), the less need it will be.

Bet you never thought your little group would do this well, did you? <gg>



>-----
>Thomas Moll aka -Fnord   | 
>Concordia University     |    "Back where I come from Lion,
>Department of Journalism |     we have men who are called heroes..."
>Montreal, Quebec, Canada |   

>(WWW home page) http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp/fnord.html
-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================



From algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Thu Sep 29 10:38:10 EDT 1994
Article: 1077 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!att-out!oucsace!ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu!ALGEO
From: algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu (the virtual valkyrie)
Subject: Defensible retreat checklist
Message-ID: <CwnD8s.15G@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
Sender: news@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (news account)
Reply-To: algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
Organization: Ohio University Computing & Technology Services
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:41:15 GMT
Lines: 179

This checklist for a defensible retreat is taken from Ragnar
Benson's _The_Survival_Retreat_, without any permission 
whatsoever (don't tell).  Bib-cite is at the end.
 
**********
Will the retreat hold all of the people who are likely to use it?
 
Does the retreat provide inherent protection from nuclear, 
biological, and chemical threats?
 
Is water available independent of any municipal supply or source?
 
Do I know how I will preserve my food?
 
Have I identified how I will heat and cook?
 
Is it possible to safely store food, clothing, explosives, guns, 
and ammunition at the retreat?
 
Can the location be secured now before it is actually manned 
during the collapse?
 
Does it have adequate facilities?  Can all these people wash 
occasionally?  Will the toilets work?
 
Can the retreat be obscured and hidden, now and after the 
fighting starts?
 
Do any neighbors or friends outside of those who will be using 
the retreat know of its existence?
 
Have I devised a workable defense plan?
 
Can the area be patrolled?
 
Is the retreat actually defensible or am I just kidding myself?
 
Can the approaches be mined and guarded?
 
Do I have the proper equipment to guard them?
 
Is the retreat in an area where I can raise a garden, scrounge, 
and generally set up a viable existence after the collapse?
 
Do I have a library in the retreat?
 
Is the library good enough to provide the information needed 
after the collapse?  If not, what books do I still need?
 
Do I have adequate amounts of everything to implement my mine 
field and mantrap plans for the retreat, given a fair and honest 
evaluation of what I will probably have to face?
 
What about medical supplies and information?  Have I got that 
covered?
 
Have I provided for nuclear/biological monitoring?  Do I have 
Geiger counters, dosimeters, etc.?
 
Do I have decontamination suits so at least some of my people can 
leave the retreat to guard, patrol, and take care of outside 
chores?
 
Have I made plans to keep hordes of people from coming anywhere 
near my area?
 
Have I evaluated my people and attempted to fit them into the 
various duties the best way possible?
 
Am I psychologically equipped to defend my retreat?  Can I 
actually shoot intruders?
 
Does everyone know which situations will actually trigger the 
defense plan and when to set off the mines and explosives and 
start shooting?
 
Do I have a stock of barter goods?  Are they properly stored?
 
Do I know how everyone will get to the retreat?  Do that have a 
least one alternative contingency plan for getting to the 
retreat, preferably two?
 
Have I evaluated the various thread possibilities and then made 
realistic plans to counter them, especially the nonconfrontive, 
nonmilitary threats?
 
Are the immediate approaches to my retreat such that they can be 
made impassable by booby traps or just plain physical means?
 
Do I know how much time it will take to close the approaches and 
who will be in charge of this job?
 
Do I have a battle plan that fits everyone into the defense 
structure?
 
Do I know the warning signs that will indicate that it is time to 
put my retreat plan into operation?
 
Do I have the correct guns and enough ammunition or have I been 
swept away by the armament gurus into believing tons of hardware 
can replace the right amount of the proper equipment?
 
Have I planned for retreat communications?
 
Do I know what means and material the enemy will have at his 
disposal or even who the enemy is, in a realistic sense?
 
Have I put together a psychological plan to keep people away and 
discourage them if they do attack?
 
Have I planned for special medical/dietary needs of the group?
 
Have I taken care of my group's current medical/dental 
requirements so these won't be of immediate concern after the 
collapse?
 
Do I know how to handle explosives safely?
 
. . . reload ammunition?
 
. . . operate and repair guns?
 
Am I skilled in using alternative means of transportation?
 
Am I highly motivated and self-confident?
 
Do I know my home territory?
 
Have I tried to look at defeating my retreat from the eyes of an 
enemy?
 
Is the retreat adequately stocked with tools and utensils for use 
in the new economy?
 
Do I know where to get the consumable items we will need such as 
light bulbs, grease, oil, toilet paper, soap, canning lids, salt, 
needles, and thread?  Have I thought about these items in terms 
of my retreat?
 
Are fires a danger?  If so, what can I do to counter that threat?
 
Is blast a danger?  Will my retreat withstand an explosion?
 
Can I properly evaluate situations?  Am I prone to hysteria or
passivity?  
 
Do I have a continuing survival training program?
 
Have I studied other collapsed societies and how people are 
surviving?
 
Have I made plans to defend against heavy equipment such as tanks 
and helicopters, if that becomes necessary?
 
Is it possible for attackers to sneak up on my retreat unseen, or 
more importantly, for them to detect my retreat without exposing 
themselves?
 
Do I know how to use fish, game, and wild plants in my area?
 
Do I know how to garden in my area?
 
Do I have a postcollapse skill I can use during the readjustment?
 
Do I know how the actual retreat will be ventilated?  What about 
lighting?
**********
 
Benson, Ragnar.  _The_Survival_Retreat:_A_Total_Plan_for_Retreat_
_Defense_.  Boulder, Colorado:  Paladin Press, 1983.  ISBN 
0-87364-275-9.
 
 
--
Melissa Algeo
algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
algeo@monolith.mit.edu
 


From jdc@taligent.com Thu Sep 29 10:39:20 EDT 1994
Article: 1112 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!taligent!kip-33.taligent.com!user
From: jdc@taligent.com (Dave)
Subject: Re: Defensible retreat checklist
Message-ID: <jdc-2409941236260001@kip-33.taligent.com>
Sender: usenet@taligent.com (More Bytes Than You Can Read)
Organization: Banzai Institute
References: <CwnD8s.15G@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:36:26 GMT
Lines: 10

In article <CwnD8s.15G@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, algeo@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu wrote:

> This checklist for a defensible retreat is taken from Ragnar
> Benson's _The_Survival_Retreat_, without any permission 
> whatsoever (don't tell).  Bib-cite is at the end.
>  

  This book is very good reading once you get past all of the "when I was
a mercenary" type anecdotes and such. The main premise is a valid one-
being unnoticed is your best defense.


From atlanform@aol.com Sun Mar 12 16:36:20 EST 1995
Article: 8364 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: The Perfect Breakast, WARNIMG: 15K post, save & read latter
Date: 11 Mar 1995 21:58:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 168
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com


 THE PERFECT 3.3 CENT BREAKFAST
 By Kurt Saxon
 
 
  A while back some Mormons visited  me and told me of a friend who had
been suckered into paying $12,000 for a year's supply of "Survival Food"
for his family of five.  The seller had given him a break by not charging
anything for the baby.
  The only good thing one can say about most commercial survival foods is
that they won't taste any worse in ten years than they do now.  The worst
that can be said for them, aside from their lack of nutrition from over
processing, is that they cost an average of three times that of food from
your local supermarket.
  A year's supply of food would be nice and you should go for it. But be
practical.  Buy what you norm    ally eat and like.  Learn basic food
processing so you can buy foods cheaply and in bulk.
  Of course, we all use canned and processed food on a regular basis and
they should always be bought by the case.  You should figure how much of a
certain product you will buy over the next year and buy it all at once by
the case from your supermarket.
  The economy is obvious.  First, the supermarket manager will deduct at
least 5%, since his people won't have to unpack it and put it on the
shelves.  Second, since food prices do nothing but rise, you will probably
pay at least 25% more for the same products in a few months.
  You can do even better by trading at the discount food stores like
Sam's.  Their prices average 10% above dealer's prices on most items.
  Although food in cans, jars    \and dried packaged foods easily keep
from three to five years if they are stored in a dry place, you can insure
freshness by rotating. Say you bought ten cases of canned peas.  Just mark
the cases from 1 to 10.  Use from case 1 and when that is emptied, buy
another and label it 11.  Then start on case 2, buy another and label it
12 and so on.  That way none of the food will ever be less than fresh.
  When you incorporate grains into your diet you will see your food costs
plummet. Buy a hand grain grinder and bake your own bread.  You will save
several dollars a month.  It will also taste better and be more
nourishing.  You can even sell it to neighbors and even to local health
food stores.
  Grain grinders should be steel-burred, not stone.  Stone grinders are a
fraud.  They are touted as causing less heat than steel.  But hand
grinding does not  cre   iate the amount of heat objected to in the
commercial milling of grains.  So buy the much cheaper and more durable
steel-burred grinder.  Atlan sells the Corona Grain Mill for $48.00
delivered in the continental  United States (foreign please request
additional shipping charges).  It is the best for the price of any on the
market and should last a lifetime.
  The Survivor Vol 1 and Poor Man's James Bond Strikes Again video tape
will give you an excellent grounding on the processing of inexpensive and
nutritious foods.  Through them you will learn that high food costs, and
especially the need for commercial survival foods, are the results of
ignorance.  You may soon have to abandon the luxury of such ignorance.
  But now to get to the main subject; the perfect 3.3 cent breakfast. 
This is just one example of a food which is easy to process, nourishing,
energy and health giving and costs practically nothing.   x
  It is simply four ounces of wheat, sprouted for 48 hours, cooked
overnight in your thermos and put in your blender.  This makes a large
bowl of breakfast cereal which tastes wonderful and will give you more
energy than you can imagine.
  There are several steps to processing this food but it takes only a few
minutes in all as you bustle about in your daily routine.
  You probably already have most of what you need but you should equip
yourself with what you lack.
  First, look up your local feed and seed store, even in a city, and call
them.  Ask if they have, or can order, 50 to 60 pounds of hard red winter
wheat, untreated (treated seed is strictly for planting).  There is no
reason they should not be able to provide it.
  It will cost between $7.00 and $8.00, depending on your location.  Say
it costs $8.00 for 60 pounds or 13 cents per pound.  You will use 4 ounce
portions.  That is 4 times 60 or 240 breakfasts or 3.3 cents for each
breakf   'ast.
  One thing you will need is a Stanley Aladdin narrow-mouthed thermos
bottle.  These cost $19.00 at Wal-Mart, are almost unbreakable and will
last a lifetime.  Don't be tempted to get a wide-mouthed thermos, if you
mean to cook in it.  It holds 3/4 cup less than you need.  Also, the cap
has a wider surface, which keeps it from holding the heat of the near
boiling water needed for actual cooking.
  Next you need two quart jars.  Mayonnaise jars or similar will do.  To
cover them get some nylon window screen from the hardware store and cut
two six inch by six inch squares.  Put four ounces of wheat in each jar. 
Put the screens over the jars and hold them in place with large rubber
bands.  Fill one jar one-third with water and set it near the sink
overnight.
  Next morning pour out the soak water and drink it.  It is vitamin-rich
and a good morning tonic.  Upend the jar in the sink to drain.  After the
first draining, flood the wheat about every four hours before bed   gtime
and drain it.  The idea is to keep the wheat moist.
  At the last flooding the first day, just before bedtime, flood the
second jar and let it set overnight like the first.  Next day, drink the
water and treat the second as the first, flooding both every four hours or
so.
  On the second evening the first jar of wheat will show sprouts
protruding from the ends of the grains.  Now it is ready.  It is part
grain and part fresh vegetable.  Its protein and vitamin content is higher
and it is altogether a more complete food, rich and amazingly nutritious
and, again, a complete meal for less than 4 cents.
  Empty the sprouted grains into a two cup measure and put four more
ounces of wheat in the jar, flood and set aside overnight as before.  Now
you have a perpetual routine taking up no real time and producing a
fantastic amount of food for little cost.
  With the   3 sprouted grain in the two cup measure fill it with water to
the two cup mark.  Then pour it into a saucepan on the stove and add two
more cups of water and a few shakes of salt to keep it  from tasting flat.
 Heat it to a boil, which takes about five minutes.
  You will need a funnel to pour the water and the grain into the thermos.
 Take a gallon plastic bottle; milk, bleach, vegetable oil, etc. and cut
it in half.  Use the top half for the funnel.
  Fill your thermos with hot water to preheat it and then pour out just
before filling with the grain.  While the grain is still boiling, empty
the pan into the funnel and so into the thermos.  You will have to use a
spoon to push part of the grain from the funnel into the thermos, as well
as some of the grain from the pan.  At any rate, do it quickly so you can
c    ap the thermos to contain the heat.
  Cap then shake the thermos and lay it on its side so its contents don't
bunch up, and leave it overnight.  Next morning, pour the contents into a
blender and pour out part of the liquid into a cup.  Drink the liquid as
it is rich in vitamins.
  With just enough liquid to cover the grain, turn on the blender at low. 
Then increase the speed until the grain is all ground to the consistency
of oatmeal.  You can add cinnamon or any other flavoring if you like but
you will find it has a delicious taste of its own.
  You do not need much sweetener as the sprouting has created quite a bit
of wheat sugar.  You can add cream if you like, but I like mine plain.  In
fact, I just blend the wheat with all the liquid and drink it.
  You will be surprised at the e    nergy you feel even a few minutes
after eating.  Not only will it enable you to be more energetic and alert
until lunch time but it will also be an excellent weight adjuster.
  For instance, if you are overweight, that energy will make you more
active and you will lose weight.  If you are underweight, its
carbohydrates will be burned up as energy and that same energy will
activate and increase your musculature.
  There is one possible drawback to this 3.3 cent breakfast.  If you are
active, no problem.  But if you live a sedentary lifestyle and are
sluggish, you may get the runs.  Not chronic, just loose.   However, this
would only last a few days.  After all, this is whole wheat, with all the
bran.  People have been eating roughly ground whole wheat for thousands of
years.  Up until     about eighty years ago only the very rich ever ate
white bread.  Sluggish intestines were a rarity except among the wealthy.
  Consequently, only the rich got colon cancer.  Colon cancer is caused by
the buildup of carcinogens on intestinal linings.  The rough bran from
whole wheat and coarsely ground corn kept the intestines of common folk
free from any such buildup.
  The same goes for oatmeal, which has recently been touted as the perfect
bran food.  It is a staple of the Scots and is high in protein.  But what
with the bran craze its price has risen much higher than its nutritive
value.
  So back to the wheat bran and its unsettling effects on the innards of
sluggards.  This is only temporary.  Any radical, even beneficial, change
in the diet will cause a reaction.  The intestines are n    ot harmed, any
more than unused muscles are harmed after a first day of horseback riding.
 The nether quarters doth protest but they soon get used to it.  No need
to overdo it to bowleggedness though.
  So I am not suggesting this to be your whole breakfast permanently or
that you make whole wheat your staple food.  What I would suggest,
however, is that you challenge yourself to make it your whole breakfast
for two weeks.
  You will save money.  You will experience fantastic energy.  You will
lose/gain weight.  You will even get cleaned out and regular and will
realize that you will never really need a laxative, even Metamucel, from
then on if you eat only one serving each day.  You will lower you risk of
colon cancer.  And you will never fear starvation as long as you have
sense enough to  buy whole grains in bulk. 
 *********************************************************.
 ATLAN   FORMULARIES
 P.O. Box 95, Alpena, AR 72611
 (501) 437-2999/FAX 437-2973
 CompuServe: 75721,55
 AOL: ATLANFORM 
    


From pturner@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:37:08 EST 1995
Article: 8407 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!pturner
From: pturner@netcom.com (Patton M Turner)
Subject: Re: Giardia Treatment Q.
Message-ID: <pturnerD5CH4u.7LK@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <nadirD5BBxy.HKv@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 20:34:06 GMT
Lines: 5
Sender: pturner@netcom12.netcom.com

Flagyl for 5-10 days is the common treatment.  I almost thought I would 
have to take it last year, but Cipro cleared me up.  Turned out it was 
bacterial not viral.  Oddly enough, I came down sick the day I left.  

Pat


From nadir@netcom.com Sun Mar 12 16:37:15 EST 1995
Article: 8373 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!nadir
From: nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra)
Subject: Giardia Treatment Q.
Message-ID: <nadirD5BBxy.HKv@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 05:44:21 GMT
Lines: 19
Sender: nadir@netcom22.netcom.com

operator problems with my software - sorry if this appears twice!

Howdy folks,
        I've read several references to Giardia and how nasty it can be
to have, as well as all the neat toys you can buy to try to avoid it
(Katadyn, MSR, etc. filters).  My question is, once you get it (and
assuming you're still in the field), what can you do to treat it?  Is it
cured by a course of anti-biotics?  If so, which ones and how long is the
course?

thanks for your help!
-Nadir


-- 
	nadir@netcom.com = Nadir A. El Farra in Los Angeles
"Let us rise up tonight with a greater readiness. Let us stand with
greater determination. And let us move in these powerful days, these
days of challenge, to make  America what it ought to be."Dr. MLK, Jr.
		   ***** DON'T TREAD ON ME *****


From jtz@roadrunner.com Sun Mar 12 21:44:23 EST 1995
Article: 8414 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!192!jtz
From: jtz@roadrunner.com (John T. Zoltai)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Greenhouse vs. garden?
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 01:30:50 GMT
Organization: Zoltai Consulting
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <jtz.1145359490A@192.12.12.62>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.59.109.136
X-Newsreader: VersaTerm Link v1.1

Well, I've been lurking here for about four months now, so I hope I've got
the right picture. This topic could be referenced in agricultural groups,
but I haven't been able to find any usegroup that discusses this stuff from
the self-sufficiency angle, so here I am.

My concern is food. I have a good amount of basic foods (rice, beans, corn,
wheat, honey, etc.) in storage, but I realize the importance of fresh food,
both for nutritional content as well as morale. I've grabbed the Seeds of
Change catalog and am now facing a quandry. I can either start a garden, or
start a pseudo-hydroponics operation by converting a rear patio to a small
greenhouse.

It strikes me that, when food supplies are tight, protecting a garden is
going to be a problem. It's enough managing the four, six, and eight-footed
creatures of nature, but when that two-legged predator starts browsing, the
stakes get very high very fast. So, it makes sense that a greenhouse would
offer somewhat greater protection, from the lesser creatures almost
completely, and from humans to a greater extent than leaving the plants
sticking out of the ground somewhere.

Which brings me to another problem. To compensate for the smaller amount of
space in a greenhouse, intensive gardening techniques, even to the extent of
hydroponics, would be a requirement. However, hydroponics requires chemical
nutrients, which implies a dependence on an oil-based economy and intact
supply lines, which is not the model I wish to support. So, I'm looking at a
situation where I would use compost pits and worm pits to break down plant
and animal waste into something that can serve as a growing medium. Use this
rich medium in the greenhouse, with watering via a drip irrigation system.

With rabbits in cages along the floor to provide a CO2 source as well as a
standby protien source, it seems possible, at least in theory, to develop a
nearly closed-loop system that is efficient and maintainable under primitive
conditions.

My problem is, I'm working from some truly ancient texts on hydroponics from
the local library, and I have no practical skill in this regard. I intend to
be well along the learning curve by this fall, however.

Does anyone here have direct experience that can show me the weak spots in
what I've described above? How about some recent titles on home hydroponics,
especially in the self-sufficiency area?

- John T. Zoltai - Architectural services for business information systems.

  "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one
   time or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had
   been involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and
   _could_have_, according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold."
                       -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago.


From degroff@netcom.com Mon Mar 13 11:32:26 EST 1995
Article: 8415 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!degroff
From: degroff@netcom.com (21012d)
Subject: Re: First Aid Supplies Suggestions
Message-ID: <degroffD5CxAF.3u2@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <3jpsm5$2a3@hermes.dna.mci.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 02:23:03 GMT
Lines: 9
Sender: degroff@netcom20.netcom.com

Get the knowledge!

Regretably mine has aged out of safe usefulness, but
I remember some accent at the time I took first aid
and making notes on the value of "inflatable splints"

Definitly include tweezers, sterile blades, eyewash,
Probably include:  snake bite kit, 



From decastro@netcom.com Mon Mar 13 11:33:03 EST 1995
Article: 8418 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Re: First Aid Supplies Suggestions
Message-ID: <decastroD5D0ru.Dps@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3jpsm5$2a3@hermes.dna.mci.com> <degroffD5CxAF.3u2@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 03:38:18 GMT
Lines: 25
Sender: decastro@netcom6.netcom.com

degroff@netcom.com (21012d) writes:

>Get the knowledge!

>Regretably mine has aged out of safe usefulness, but
>I remember some accent at the time I took first aid
>and making notes on the value of "inflatable splints"

I like air splints too - that seems to make me a dinosaur in EMS
(according to the younguns in the recert class I just finished).

But, it's amazing how those things will not work after storage.

>Definitly include tweezers, sterile blades, eyewash,
>Probably include:  snake bite kit, 

ARGH!  NO!  More people have died or had serious consequences from the
(mis) use of snakebite kits than have been helped by them - Cut 'n suck
sucks - period.

-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From wbean@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 13 11:33:38 EST 1995
Article: 8424 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: wbean@ix.netcom.com (William K. Bean)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: First Aid Supplies Suggestions
Date: 13 Mar 1995 12:31:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k1dvc$kji@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3jpsm5$2a3@hermes.dna.mci.com> <degroffD5CxAF.3u2@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-23.ix.netcom.com

In <degroffD5CxAF.3u2@netcom.com> degroff@netcom.com (21012d) writes: 

>Get the knowledge!
>
>Regretably mine has aged out of safe usefulness, but
>I remember some accent at the time I took first aid
>and making notes on the value of "inflatable splints"
>
>Definitly include tweezers, sterile blades, eyewash,
>Probably include:  snake bite kit, 

Can anyone recommend a source of military surplus medical 
supplies, specifically the disposable surgical blades (#10) 
and suture packages (4-0 silk with CE-4 needle) that come 
with the Surgical Instrument Kit, Minor Surgery (which is 
commonly available)?  I'd also like to find a stethoscope 
and a blood pressure cuff.

Thanks for the help, I've been looking for some time but 
to no avail.

Bill


From decastro@netcom.com Mon Mar 13 11:33:50 EST 1995
Article: 8417 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Re: First Aid Supplies Suggestions
Message-ID: <decastroD5D0n9.DIG@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3jpsm5$2a3@hermes.dna.mci.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 03:35:33 GMT
Lines: 32
Sender: decastro@netcom6.netcom.com

MarkD@MCIMail.com writes:


>I am putting together what I want to be a comprehensive survival first aid 
>supply.  The great thing about this group is all the experience and 
>"wisdom".  I would appreciate any suggestions for items that may not be 
>normally thought of.

>I have already included the basics:

>Plenty of bandages, gauze, tape etc...
>Potassium Iodide pills
>Powdered Antibiotics (Amoxicillan)
>Rubbing Alcoho

What for?
l
>Plenty of Aspirin
>Tylonol

First of all, get some training.  I recommend the American Red Cross
Advanced First Aid course as a MINIMUM.  Better yet is EMT with whatever
specialized training you can get - Wilderness, etc.

Then, you can not only know what to get, but how to get it.


-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From wbean@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 13 11:34:10 EST 1995
Article: 8425 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: wbean@ix.netcom.com (William K. Bean)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: First Aid Supplies Suggestions
Date: 13 Mar 1995 12:41:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3k1eig$kn2@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3jpsm5$2a3@hermes.dna.mci.com> <decastroD5D0n9.DIG@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc6-23.ix.netcom.com

In <decastroD5D0n9.DIG@netcom.com> decastro@netcom.com 
(Richard A. De Castro) writes: 

>First of all, get some training.  I recommend the American 
>Red Cross Advanced First Aid course as a MINIMUM.  Better 
>yet is EMT with whatever specialized training you can get 
>- Wilderness, etc.
>
>Then, you can not only know what to get, but how to get it.

Ditto, and such training can be surprisingly readily available.

I was trained as an EMT while living in a small coal mining 
town far from any major city.  It seems that the Mine Safety 
and Health Administration had a regulation requiring a trained 
EMT on every shift in the mine, so the classes were taught 
routinely.  I was offered a spot in the class to help fill up 
the roster.

Quite painless and extremely worthwhile.

Bill


From decastro@netcom.com Mon Mar 13 11:36:12 EST 1995
Article: 8422 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Re: Giardia Treatment Q.
Message-ID: <decastroD5D1nK.F8y@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <nadirD5BBxy.HKv@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 03:57:20 GMT
Lines: 27
Sender: decastro@netcom6.netcom.com

nadir@netcom.com (Nadir A. El Farra) writes:

>operator problems with my software - sorry if this appears twice!

>Howdy folks,
>        I've read several references to Giardia and how nasty it can be
>to have, as well as all the neat toys you can buy to try to avoid it
>(Katadyn, MSR, etc. filters).  My question is, once you get it (and
>assuming you're still in the field), what can you do to treat it?  Is it
>cured by a course of anti-biotics?  If so, which ones and how long is the
>course?


Flagyl (lots of it) unless you're alergic to sulfa drugs, then (I think)
tetracycline (lots and lots and lots of it).

Dogs can get girardia too.  When mine got it (same symptoms as a human),
the vet prescribed a HUGE dose of flagyl for her.  The pharmacist was 
so worried about it that he called the vet twice.

Both are doing well now.

-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM Tue Mar 14 01:05:44 EST 1995
Article: 8441 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!jupiter.WichitaKS.NCR.COM!jupiter.wichitaks.ncr.com!Jeff.Cook
From: Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Jeff Cook)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Greenhouse vs. garden?
Date: 13 Mar 1995 19:13:51 GMT
Organization: Symbios Logic, Ft. Collins, CO
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <JEFF.COOK.95Mar13121351@bears.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM>
References: <jtz.1145359490A@192.12.12.62>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bears.ncrmicro.ncr.com
In-reply-to: jtz@roadrunner.com's message of Sun, 12 Mar 95 01:30:50 GMT

In article <jtz.1145359490A@192.12.12.62> jtz@roadrunner.com (John T. Zoltai) writes:

>It strikes me that, when food supplies are tight, protecting a garden is
>going to be a problem. It's enough managing the four, six, and eight-footed
>creatures of nature, but when that two-legged predator starts browsing, the
>stakes get very high very fast. So, it makes sense that a greenhouse would
>offer somewhat greater protection, from the lesser creatures almost
>completely, and from humans to a greater extent than leaving the plants
>sticking out of the ground somewhere.

I suppose there might be some advantage to building a greenhouse or
hydroponic farm, but it may not be necessary to go to all that trouble
and expense.  I'm trying Square-Foot Gardening this year.  It's my first
time to give it a try, so I can't personally vouch for it, but I've heard
lots of good things about it.

With Square-Foot Gardening, you start new seeds every week, so your harvest
is spread out over the entire summer.  By staggering the planting and
harvesting of your crop, you can lessen the impact caused by the two-legged
varmints.  If someone sneaks into your garden, he can can only pick what's
ripe at that particular moment.  He wouldn't be able to steal much of your
crop, because you're constantly harvesting the good stuff as soon as it's
ripe; everything that's worth eating would already be out of your garden
and sitting in your kitchen.  If the guy makes off with a few tomatoes or
carrots, that's okay, because there'll be more ready for harvest within a
few days, perhaps a week or so.  Plus, you'll be harvesting and storing
_more_ than you can eat, so you probably won't even feel the loss.

This method should also help protect you from hail storms and other
disasters.  If there's a hail storm this summer that kills some of my
crop, I'll salvage what I can, compost the rest, and re-plant with the
seedlings I'm raising indoors.

Again, I can't _personally_ vouch for Square-Foot Gardening, but that's
the way it's supposed to work, and I intend to have first-hand knowledge
of how well it actually works in practice by the end of the season.  You
might want to give it a try before paying out the big bucks for high-tech
equipment, when all you really need is a shovel.

(You can read all about it in the book, _Square Foot Gardening_ by Mel
Bartholomew, in your local library)
--

Jeff Cook                                 Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.com


From atlanform@aol.com Tue Mar 14 01:06:20 EST 1995
Article: 8430 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: More On The Perfect Breakfast
Date: 13 Mar 1995 02:49:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 87
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Dear Friends,
       There is fairly in depth article on the subject of cooking in a
Thermos bottle on page 1,074 of volume 3 of THE SURVIVOR.
       Several of you have asked about hard red winter wheat. The only
difference between HRWW and any other wheat is that depending on it's age
it will have a slightly higher protein content than that of all your other
wheats. Also as a general rule of thumb your hardest wheats are for breads
while your softer verities are used in pastas.
       Kurt & I purchase our wheat from the local feed & seed store. The
wheat I by isn't HRWW but it's still makes a good loaf of bread and a
great breakfast cereal.  It costs me $6.00 a bushel (60 lbs.) & with
exception of corn at $3.75 per bushel (50lbs.)  it is the cheapest sorce
of food that I can think of!
         Once you've got your bushel of wheat, seperate it into 1 gallon
zip-lock freezer bags for intermediate term storage. In this way if your
grain happens to a have any pests in it they'll only be able to
contaminate a single 6 or 8 lb. sack of grub.
         For indefinate long term storage go to your nearest town or city
that is large enough to support a chain of 2 or more bakeries that
specialize in custom cake decorating. Look one of these stores up in the
yellow pages & call them to find out which of their stores bakes all of
their cakes. Armed with this knoledge go to that bakery and ask the
manager if you could have a dozen or so of the 4 gallon plastic buckets
that they get their whole frozen eggs & egg whites in. If your lucky and
these bakeries do anywhere near the volume of sales that the 3 store
bakery chain I worked for in CA did, you'll find that they will be
throwing away 60 to a 100 of these buckets "every week"!
        I was bringing so many of these buckets home every week while I
lived in CA that my Dad & I started using them for 4 gallon nursery
containers to grow seedling trees in.
       Anyway these containers are the cat's meow for bulk grain storage. 
Once you've scrubbed them out with hot soapy water spiked with a little
Clorox for added disinfectant & then rinse out completely you'll have a
bulk food container that will last for years. Just be sure their not
exposed to direct sunlight because UV radiation will break them down to a
brittle mess in a season or 2.
         To prepare your grains or beans for long term storage simply drop
a quarter lb. chunk of dry ice into the bottom of a bucket while it sets
on a completely level surface. Then simply fill your bucket to within
about a 1" of the top and "gentley set" the lid on top of the bucket. DO
NOT SEAL THE BUCKET'S LID YET!  Set a timer for 25 minutes & when it goes
off "then & only then" seal the lid to the top of the bucket. If you seal
the bucket right off you'll be forcing the CO2 form the evaporating dry
ice into grain giving it a "freezer burnt" taste.
         All you're doing with the above porcedure is simply dissplacing
all of the oxygen in your bucket with CO2 thereby smuthering any of the
little critters that you may brought home in your toe sack full of chow.
         On another note, although the procedure disscribed in"The Perfect
3.3 Cent Breakfast" works just fine & makes a great tasting & nutritious
breakfast, it's just to darn much work for yours truly. I eat wheat or rye
(or a combination of both) every weekday morning. I just don't bother
partially sprouting it first. Every night just before I go to bed I get
down my small mouth 1 quart Stanley stainless steel thermos & using a
small funnel I  pour a level quarter cup measure of grain into it along
with about a half a tsp. of salt. Then just as soon as my tea kettle
starts to whistle I top off my thermos with boiling water, cap & shake it
a couple of times  & then set it down on it's side so it's contents
doesn't bunch up. 
         And that's all there is to it. From the time I turn the fire on
under my tea kettle to the time set the my thermos down I've spent just a
little over 5 minutes  making a hot breakfast that would make you want to
throw rocks at a bowl of Cherioes. When I get up in the morning I just
dump my thermos into a big bowl, slurp off the excess fluid, add a tsp.
pad of butter, about 2 tsp. of brown surgar & I've got a "hot" meal that
will stand me in good stead well into the lunch hour.
         For those of you that may wonder what this meal tastes like, if
you like "Cream Of Wheat" you should enjoy this breakfast. It's quite a
bit chewier because your eating whole wheat with all of it's bran but it's
still quite pleasnt tasting. Although I've never done it, you might try
running it through a high speed blender as disscribed in the article. This
ought to create a cereal with the consistency of oat meal.
         Because I use a quarter cup mearure of wheat whieghing in at 3.5
onces. (I simply cannot eat the full 4 once serving disscribed in the
article, & I eat like a horse!) I figure the my weekday morning
breakfasts, including butter & brown surgar cost me 5 cents to prepare.
That's 2 bits a week! I eat a hot breakfast 5 days a week for less than
half the price of a good cup of coffee.
          Not bad hah? 

Sincerely Yours, 

Mr. Cary Jeffries
ATLAN FORMULARIES
P.O. Box 95
Alpena, AR 72611
CompuServe: 75721,55
AOL: ATLANFORM 


From medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu Mon Mar 20 00:24:52 EST 1995
Article: 8466 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!falcon.cc.ukans.edu!medintz
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Dutch oven - new
Message-ID: <1995Mar14.194358.87792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
From: medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Vampire)
Date: 14 Mar 95 19:43:57 CST
References: <3k4utc$4n5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.cc.ukans.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 15

JeffPMil (jeffpmil@aol.com) wrote:
: How does one "cure" an iron Dutch Oven?  We lost the directions!

: Thanks
Rub it down with cooking oil, crisco, something like that. Get the grease      rubbed in real well, and wipe off the excess. Then heat it for about an hour,
preferably in a relatively "clean" heating oven (I forgot the temp, but I think it's about 300 or so Farenheit), and wipe off any grease that comes out during the heating. (You may want to double-check this-Use a Boy Scout Handbook or   the like)  
: Public/private okay
: Be seeing you,
: Number 6

--
Mike S. Medintz
currently a student, future DUI on the Information Superhighway
Drinker of Coffee, rent-a-cop, working Philosopher
The opinions in this article are MINE!(admit it! You want them too!)


From hsu@Glue.umd.edu Mon Mar 20 00:25:08 EST 1995
Article: 8489 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!hookup!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!convolution.eng.umd.edu!not-for-mail
From: hsu@Glue.umd.edu (Dave bd Hsu)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Dutch oven - new
Date: 15 Mar 1995 10:38:40 -0500
Organization: Pix -- The company with no adult supervision.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3k71m0$rpa@convolution.eng.umd.edu>
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In article <1995Mar14.194358.87792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
Vampire <medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>JeffPMil (jeffpmil@aol.com) wrote:
>: How does one "cure" an iron Dutch Oven?  We lost the directions!
>Rub it down with cooking oil, crisco, something like that. Get the grease      rubbed in real well, and wipe off the excess. Then heat it for about an hour,
>preferably in a relatively "clean" heating oven (I forgot the temp, but I think it's about 300 or so Farenheit), and wipe off any grease that comes out during the heating. (You may want to double-check this-Use a Boy Scout Handbook or   the like)  

And don't forget the old Boy Scout prohibition against using steel wool on
cast iron.  Plastic pads are okay.

-dave

-- 
Dave Hsu    <hsu@glue.umd.edu>

"The only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence."
                                - UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali


From vaq@ornl.gov Mon Mar 20 00:25:40 EST 1995
Article: 8524 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!darwin.sura.net!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!vaq.win.ornl.gov!vaq
From: vaq@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Dutch oven - new
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:24:26 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <vaq.83.2F68663A@ornl.gov>
References: <3k4utc$4n5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <1995Mar14.194358.87792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <3k71m0$rpa@convolution.eng.umd.edu>
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X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

In article <3k71m0$rpa@convolution.eng.umd.edu> hsu@Glue.umd.edu (Dave bd Hsu) writes:


>In article <1995Mar14.194358.87792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
>Vampire <medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>>JeffPMil (jeffpmil@aol.com) wrote:
>>: How does one "cure" an iron Dutch Oven?  We lost the directions!
>>Rub it down with cooking oil, crisco, something like that. Get the grease     
>rubbed in real well, and wipe off the excess. Then heat it for about an hour,
>>preferably in a relatively "clean" heating oven (I forgot the temp, but I think
>it's about 300 or so Farenheit), and wipe off any grease that comes out during
>the heating. (You may want to double-check this-Use a Boy Scout Handbook or  
>the like)  

>And don't forget the old Boy Scout prohibition against using steel wool on
>cast iron.  Plastic pads are okay.

>-dave

>-- 
>Dave Hsu    <hsu@glue.umd.edu>

>"The only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence."
>                                - UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali



Dutches are shipped from the factory w/ a layer of wax which, IMHE, must be 
removed w/ steel wool.  That is the last time you use steel wool on it until 
you're ready to reseason it, cause after a good scrubbing you must either 
reseason it or use it for a doorstop.

After the scrubbing, as I recall the directions, it's rubdown w/ a good 
cooking oil or shortening (many self-proclaimed sourdoughs decry one or the 
other, I can't find the difference).  Place in a household oven so excess 
drains freely (body upside down, lid right side up).  Bake for 
1-3 hours at about 350 deg F.

Rather than rely on my memory, call Lodge Manufacturing in South Pittsburg, TN 
and ask.


Logan VanLeigh
Dutchman and Dutch-Oven Cooker
(I don't know enough to be a chef yet)


From hsu@Glue.umd.edu Mon Mar 20 00:26:02 EST 1995
Article: 8559 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!mojo.eng.umd.edu!convolution.eng.umd.edu!not-for-mail
From: hsu@Glue.umd.edu (Dave bd Hsu)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Dutch oven - new
Date: 17 Mar 1995 15:55:34 -0500
Organization: Pix -- The company with no adult supervision.
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Message-ID: <3kct06$8jf@convolution.eng.umd.edu>
References: <3k4utc$4n5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <1995Mar14.194358.87792@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> <3k71m0$rpa@convolution.eng.umd.edu> <vaq.83.2F68663A@ornl.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: convolution.eng.umd.edu

In article <vaq.83.2F68663A@ornl.gov>,  <vaq@ornl.gov> wrote:
>In article <3k71m0$rpa@convolution.eng.umd.edu> hsu@Glue.umd.edu (Dave bd Hsu) writes:
>>And don't forget the old Boy Scout prohibition against using steel wool on
>>cast iron.  Plastic pads are okay.
>
>Dutches are shipped from the factory w/ a layer of wax which, IMHE, must be 
>removed w/ steel wool.  That is the last time you use steel wool on it until 
>you're ready to reseason it, cause after a good scrubbing you must either 
>reseason it or use it for a doorstop.

True...once cast iron is properly seasoned, a good wipe and a light rubdown
with oil/Crisco/whatever is all it needs.  And as we all know, it gets
better the more you use it.

I find that Scotchbrite does an adequate job when scrubbing is needed.
But the reason for the "no steel wool" prohibition is the porosity of
cast-iron...it loves to soak up lipids, but it also likes to trap
microscopic fuzz from the steel wool.  This eventually gets released
back into your food, and eventually you die a premature and agonizing
death of fibrosis!

Sorry...I was only kidding about that last part.  Sounds more dramatic
that way, don't you think?  Anyway, the rest of it is how it's always
been explained to me.

-dave

-- 
Dave Hsu    <hsu@glue.umd.edu>

"The only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence."
                                - UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali


From ironk@delphi.com Mon Mar 20 00:26:12 EST 1995
Article: 8475 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: hobbit <ironk@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: E-mail catalog of USEFUL books...!
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 95 23:50:11 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <JI97u6z.ironk@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com

To receive an e-mail catalog of books and videotapes on EXPLOSIVES, SNIPING,
LOCKSMITHING, and other interesting 'skills,' reply to this message as
follows:  catalog request - MCW     Or, if you would like to receive a fax
hardcopy of the catalog, leave your fax number!


From greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com Mon Mar 20 00:27:31 EST 1995
Article: 8525 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!venus.sun.com!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!male.EBay.Sun.COM!antizen!greg
From: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.survivalism
Subject: Wildcrafting Medicinal Plants Course
Date: 16 Mar 1995 02:48:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 64
Distribution: world
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.backcountry:70135 misc.survivalism:8525





For more information, call;            

Earthbound Medical Rescue                        Jan. 18 1994
(408)275-9542


                  Wildcrafting Medicine Course

Earthbound Medical Rescue is offering a two day workshop on
wildcrafting: identification, harvesting, and preparation of
local medicinal plants for first aid and family comfort.  The 
class will be held in at least two locations in the San Jose
area on the weekend of March 25 and 26 and will cover;

Identification of Medicinal Plants -

You will learn field characteristics that positively identify
many useful herbs.  We will also discuss alternative medicinal
plant sources with a world-wide distribution.

Environmentally Sound Harvesting Techniques -

We will gather plants in a way that can be done year after year
without damage to the ecosystem.  We will use all the plants 
gathered.

Cleaning and Processing the Harvest - 

Learn to prepare herbal poultices, tinctures, facial astringents,
oils, salves and more.  We will make many useful preparations in 
the field with fresh herbs.  You take home a complete selection.

Traditional Uses - 

We will thoroughly describe the safe uses of these preparations,
so that you and your family will enjoy your homemade products
for years to come.


The instructor for the weekend is Howie Brounstein, the owner
and operator of Columbines and Wizardry Herbs Inc. of Eugene
Oregon.  He has taught botany, herbalism, and wildcrafting
extensively over the past decade.  Active in locating rare,
threatened, and endangered plants, Howie has recently returned 
from the old growth temperate rain forests of Southern Chile
where he was taking a rapid biological inventory of medicinal
plants with a group of international researchers.


To register send a check of money order for $200.00 along with
the name, address and daytime phone number for each individual

To;

Earthbound Medical Rescue
390 N.12th st. 
San Jose, CA  95112
 




From breon@netcom.com Mon Mar 20 00:27:42 EST 1995
Article: 8514 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!breon
From: breon@netcom.com (breon moore)
Subject: Re: Poison Oak
Message-ID: <breonD5Itx8.EEp@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3jor10$ca@desiree.teleport.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 06:55:56 GMT
Lines: 10
Sender: breon@netcom4.netcom.com

e142857@teleport.com wrote:
:     Regarding poison oak: I've spoken to several Oregon Forest Service
: personnel, surveyors and smoke jumpers who claim to have either
: developed resistance to, or gotten relief from the weed by using
: Hyland's Poison Oak Remedy.  They take for a week before they
: expect to encounter the stuff, or as an antedote after contacting it.
: Health food stores usually carry it, 100 tablets, $5.29.

: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From ordway@ionet.net Mon Mar 20 00:28:23 EST 1995
Article: 8543 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!news
From: ordway@ionet.net (Jim Williams)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Announcing The Underground Review, a new e-zine
Date: 17 Mar 1995 08:00:13 GMT
Organization: The Ordway Company
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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We have just published an E-Zine called The Underground Review (TUR).
The Underground Review is an electronic smorgasbord 
of magazines/books/etc. from the "underground." Each month TUR 
will feature an obscure magazine or book that our editorial 
staff thinks you will find of interest. TUR will endeavor 
to unearth publications that will be interesting and instructive. 
We will seek to bring you provocative information that is 
not readily available to the average person. 
This issue features the "AntiShyster" which makes a "critical 
legal system." 
Vol.1, No.1 contents: 
The Moral Promise of a Free Society; 
When the Goin' Gits Tuff, the People Git Hustled; 
Titles of the United States Code; 
Illinois Court Rules Attorneys Unnecessary; 
Licenses?! We Don' Nee' No Stinkin' Licenses!; 
Democracy vs. Republic; 
>From Common Law to the Uniform Commercial Code; 
Some Dare Call it Treason; 
Emergency War Powers. 
TUR can be downloaded from our World Wide Web home page:
http://www.ionet.net/~ordway or we will e-mail the
UUencoded file upon request.
Thanks,
Jim Williams



From ordway@ionet.net Mon Mar 20 00:29:15 EST 1995
Article: 8543 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!news
From: ordway@ionet.net (Jim Williams)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Announcing The Underground Review, a new e-zine
Date: 17 Mar 1995 08:00:13 GMT
Organization: The Ordway Company
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3kbfid$mmb@ionews.ionet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsip01.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.10

We have just published an E-Zine called The Underground Review (TUR).
The Underground Review is an electronic smorgasbord 
of magazines/books/etc. from the "underground." Each month TUR 
will feature an obscure magazine or book that our editorial 
staff thinks you will find of interest. TUR will endeavor 
to unearth publications that will be interesting and instructive. 
We will seek to bring you provocative information that is 
not readily available to the average person. 
This issue features the "AntiShyster" which makes a "critical 
legal system." 
Vol.1, No.1 contents: 
The Moral Promise of a Free Society; 
When the Goin' Gits Tuff, the People Git Hustled; 
Titles of the United States Code; 
Illinois Court Rules Attorneys Unnecessary; 
Licenses?! We Don' Nee' No Stinkin' Licenses!; 
Democracy vs. Republic; 
>From Common Law to the Uniform Commercial Code; 
Some Dare Call it Treason; 
Emergency War Powers. 
TUR can be downloaded from our World Wide Web home page:
http://www.ionet.net/~ordway or we will e-mail the
UUencoded file upon request.
Thanks,
Jim Williams



From lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz Mon Mar 20 00:29:23 EST 1995
Article: 8598 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!allegra!ulysses!lziss3!netnews
From: lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz (Paul Zaccari)
Subject: Book Review- Ditch Medicine
Message-ID: <D5LrM8.HrI@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
Sender: netnews@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com (51[news]-Netnews Admin)
Organization: GIS
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.9
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 20:56:08 GMT
Lines: 69

	


	Hi


 I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. This is a laymans review of 
a book on emergency medical procedures in the field. I sure wish a doctor 
would review this though.

 I have been casting around for books that goes beyond the first aid 
books that are available today. Something for those occasions when there 
is no way to contact an ambulance, or no ambulance to contact in any 
case. Ditch Medicine (ISBN 0-87364-717-3) seems, to my uneducated eye, 
fit the bill. 
 The book covers medical procedures that can be done in the field when 
timely recource to a hospital is out of the question. The table of 
contents says it all:

1 Small wound repair. ( covers cleaning, debriding (YUK!) and closing of 
wounds).

2 Care for the infected wound. ( covers Atibiotic Therapy). 

3 Decompression and drainage of the chest. ( Techniques and equipment for    
 Chest Decompression).

4 Intravenous Therapy. (When and why to use IVs, how to.)

5 Emergency Airway Procedures. (For maintaining a clear airway or for 
emergency vetilation).

6 Anaphylactic shock. (Recognising and treating SEVERE allergic 
reactions).

7 Pain control (Describes the uses of Anesthesia and Nerve blocks).

8 Amputation (Yeeeaaaaa! All the gory details). 

9 Burns (How to treat burns. More horrible stuff). 

10 Nutrition and Emotional support. 


 Ditch medicine gives you procedues that could save lives with very 
little in the way of equipment. After reading it I feel that I could 
(provided I had the nerve) attempt the procedures described with a good 
chance of success. Cost me $25.



				Hope that helps




--------------------------------------------------------------------
|Paul Zaccari  |  "You can't get good chinese takeout in China and |
|              |  cuban cigars are rationed in Cuba. That's all    |  
|Speak softly  |  you need to know about communism."               |
|and carry.    |                                   -P.J. ORourke   |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|"If I did a tenth of the things that the Kennedys do the Law would|
|be all over me like ugly on Janet Reno."                          |
|                                           -Me                    |
--------------------------------------------------------------------

 



From fk654@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Mon Mar 20 00:31:15 EST 1995
Article: 8556 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!fk654
From: fk654@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William Gehrs)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: WWW site
Date: 17 Mar 1995 21:25:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3kcuos$m79@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


Howdy folks,
Found a www site that has items for sale of interest to survivialists, at
http://www.msen.com/~american
Thought you'd like to know.
Bill


From fk654@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Mon Mar 20 00:31:55 EST 1995
Article: 8556 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!fk654
From: fk654@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William Gehrs)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: WWW site
Date: 17 Mar 1995 21:25:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <3kcuos$m79@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


Howdy folks,
Found a www site that has items for sale of interest to survivialists, at
http://www.msen.com/~american
Thought you'd like to know.
Bill


From atlanform@aol.com Mon Mar 20 00:31:59 EST 1995
Article: 8568 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!newshost.marcam.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: 6 Crop Growing Season: 18K post,"SAVE" 4 latter
Date: 18 Mar 1995 13:28:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 415
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: atlanform@aol.com (ATLANFORM)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com


 
 
 
 
 
                  ATLAN FORMULARIES - PO Box 95, Apena, Arkansas 72611
                                    (501) 437-2999/FAX 437-2973
                    CompuServe Address: 75721,55 or AOL: ATLANFORM
                                      Call or send for a free catalog.
 
                    TRY FOR A SIX CROP GROWING SEASON by Kurt Saxon
                           FROM  THE SURVIVOR
 
                Most  gardeners get  only  one crop  per  plant species 
per
           season. A corn stalk will give one or two ears and then you
might
           as well pull it  up and replant. Tomatoes, squash,  cucumbers
and
           many other  vegetable plants will  produce up to a  bushel in
the
           first  few weeks after maturity and then produce very little
from
           then on.
                If you mean to produce for the sake of production, it's
best
           to  replace the  plant after  its maximum  productive  period
and
           replace it with  a plant just  beginning to mature. In  this
way,
           you can gain maximum production throughout the growing season.
                In the same  sense, you should not have that  space taken
up
           by a plant  not nearing its productive  cycle. That's a waste 
of
           space  and  isn't  necessary.  Many  gardeners,  especially 
pro-
           fessional  growers, sprout seeds, put them  in planters, and
when
           they approach maturity, set them  in the garden so that  no
space
           is wasted by immature or declining plants.
                So the idea of full-cropping isn't new and  has been used
in
           various  ways for hundreds of  years. But most  people accept
the
           idea of planting a tiny seed in a large space and letting its
one
           plant take  up the whole season. My method gets from three to
six
           times the vegetables from the same space in the same time.
                The basic program  is for those vegetables grown  during
the
           average  six months  when  the sun  is  highest and  the 
weather
           warmest.  Off season, the sunlight weakens and the day is
shorter
           and the  weather is  too cold  or too  wet. So, generally, 
we're
           dealing with April, May, June, July, August and September.
                If  outside plants are protected  from the wet  and cold,
as
           with the  miniature greenhouses described in  "Making And
Selling
           Tire Gardens", in  this volume, four months  may be added  to
the
           growing  season in  temperate climates.  Of course,  this
applies
           mainly to plants not requiring the maximum of direct sunlight.
                You can  experiment  with these  later but  first you 
might
           stick to the most common warm-weather vegetables until you
master
           the system.  Then you can  branch out to  cold-weather
vegetables
           and exotics.
                Perfecting this system for  yourself has several
advantages.
           More vegetables is the  basic advantage. You'll also  know
you'll
           have  enough to sell,  rather than just  a small  surplus to
give
           away.  The most  important advantage  is that  your crop  will
be
           predictable. You'll have a good idea, week to week, just how
much
           produce you'll have at any given time.
                Knowing what you've got and what you'll have will 
guarantee
           your  customers a steady supply so  they'll depend on you and
you
           can depend on them to buy all  your produce. And you can sell
all
           you produce.
                Consider  the prices  for vegetables  in the  supermarket
in
           Harrison,  Arkansas  in  May,  1993: Tomatoes,  $1.29  lb., 
leaf
           lettuce $1.29 lb.,  radish, .99  per bunch; bell  peppers, 3 
for
           $1.00; cucumbers, 3 for $1.00; green onions, 3 bunches for
$1.00;
           spinach, $1.29; carrots, 5 lb. for $1.99; broccoli, $1.29; 
sugar
           snap  peas, $2.79 lb.; red  cabbage, .99 lb.;  green cabbage,
.39
           lb; cauliflower, $1.29 each; zucchini squash, .99 lb.;
asparagus,
           $1.59 lb., etc.
                Considering the fact  that once you've gotten set  up
you'll
           have   practically  no   overhead,  you  could   profitably 
sell
           vegetables at one-half the store price. To begin, as soon as
your
           crops  start  coming  in,  start knocking  on  doors  around
your
           neighborhood.  Tell  the  people  you'll  sell them 
fresh-picked
           vegetables for one-half the  store price and you'll sell  all
you
           can  raise and  there won't  be  one door  closed  in your 
face.
           Whether you  use a push-cart, a  pickup or sell from  the back
of
           your car, you're in business.
                Your  next  step would  be  to approach  a  local
restaurant
           manager with  the offer to sell  him vegetables for  a third
less
           than he already pays.  Easy pickings there if you can guarantee
a
           daily supply. By  the time you can supply a  grocery store
you'll
           have to  expand  and hire  help. But  you'll be  doing very 
well
           indeed,  because   you  can't   go  wrong  raising   and 
selling
           vegetables.
                To start,  set  up a  commercial  tire garden  as 
described
           elsewhere in Shoestring Entrepreneur. If you have a sunny back
yard you've got        
           a commercial garden with raised beds made from used tires that
will
           last way past your lifetime, and at practically no cost.
               You begin  your system with seeds,  naturally. First,
hybrid
           or  non-hybrid? If yours is just a  family garden and you want
to
           save seeds so you won't have  to buy new ones every season
you'll
           want  non-hybrid. But  for commercial  gardens, hybrid  seeds
are
           better. True, their  seeds won't reproduce  well next season 
but
           that  doesn't  matter.  The   vegetables  are  more  uniform 
and
           dependable and are bred for better taste,  resistance to
disease,
           pests, heat, etc.
                Now,  where should you buy  your seeds? Again,  if it's
just
           for a  family garden  and you  don't want to  wait, seeds 
bought
           locally  are usually fine. But if you  want top quality seeds
for
           top  quality vegetables  you'll order  them  from a  seed
company
           catering to commercial growers as well as the general public.
                There  are many seed companies  to choose from  and I'm
sure
           most  of  them are  good. My  choice,  however, is  Gurney's,
110
           Capital St.,  Yankton, SD 57059  (605) 665-1671. They've  been
in
           business for years and  have built up their tested stock  so
it's
           practically fail-safe. Besides, I think Gurney's is the
prettiest
           catalogue  and  so  well-illustrated.   It  also  gives  lots 
of
           information such as  approximate days to produce, yields,  etc.
A
           lot of the others do, too.
                Once  you've gotten your seeds, you can save several days
by
           sprouting  them.  If  you're  an  amateur  this  may  not  be 
an
           advantage.  But as you become skilled in the maximum use of
space
           and time, you'll see the plus side of sprouting.
                Some definite advantages  of sprouting seeds  before
potting
           or  even  starting them  outside  is  guaranteeing fertility 
and
           preventing  the need  for thinning.  Also, you  can  choose
those
           which sprout fastest and are bigger than the weaker sprouts.
                The best way to sprout seeds  is to use plastic, half
gallon
           milk cartons cut in half. You can use round, plastic butter
bowls
           and  such, also.  The best sprouting  medium I  know is  Hi
Yield
           vermiculite,  15 quarts for $2.49 at your garden store. Cover
the
           bottom of your  sprouter with one inch and place your seeds.
Then
           cover them with  about an inch and sprinkle with  water until
the
           Vermiculite is soaked. Be  sure to punch several pinholes  in
the
           bottom of the sprouter so the excess moisture will drain off.
                I prefer vermiculite as a sprouting medium because it's
firm
           enough to hold the sprouts upright but loose enough to allow
them
           to be pulled up without damaging  the rootlets.   When
sprouting,
           figure  how many plants  you need and  count out  twice that
many
           seeds. It's  a good idea  to make  out a label  for each  kind
of
           seed.  You'd be surprised how you can forget which seed is
which.
           You can use popsicle sticks, bought at any supermarket.
                Now for the pots.  Peat pots are fine  but they cost. 
Also,
           don't be fooled by the ads. The roots don't always  go through
so
           you have to tear off the peat from around the sides  to make
sure
           the plants aren't root-bound.
                The best pot is  a free pot. What I  chose for free pots 
is
           the common  #15 tin can, from your grocery shelf. The # 15
stands
           for 15 ounces of liquid. They're just the right size, four
inches
           high and three inches across. On your growing table  they give
16
           pots per  square foot  of space. Of  course, as  the plants 
grow
           outward, you'll be separating them periodically.
                To  prepare your cans, soak  them to loosen  the paper.
Then
           cut out the bottoms. Tin cans rust so they must be painted.
Water
           base paint is  no good as  it doesn't stick  well. Color 
doesn't
           matter so  you can use up  that old oil base  paint you've
stored
           after  use. A  quart will  paint about  200 cans. A  gallon
about
           1,000. A gallon of the cheapest oil base paint costs about
$13.00
           at Wal-Mart.
                Painting is easy and quick. The cans have a layer of
varnish
           inside so you only have to paint the outside. Use a two-inch
wide
           brush  and have  some cheap  paint thinner  handy. It  takes
only
           about a  minute to paint  each can once  you get the  rhythm.
You
           don't need to be neat and you can even paint over rust spots.
                Stick  your hand through one end and dip the brush a
quarter
           inch into  the paint. Then swipe  both sides of the  brush on
the
           can  to prevent  dripping and  then paint  around both  ends.
Now
           paint the  rest and don't worry  about getting a bit  of paint
on
           your hand. A bit of  paint thinner when the job is  finished
will
           take  care of that. Although the insides don't need painting,
you
           might take  a swipe  at the  inside bottom where  the bare 
metal
           turns  in. These cans can be used  season after season. Just
touch
           up any rust spots each season and they'll last indefinitely.
                One  of the  best potting  soils is  Organic Based 
Superior
           Potting Soil, 16 quarts from Wal-Mart. That will be enough for
51
           cans.  You don't fill  the cans all the way to the top. It's
best
           to  use a Campbell's  Soup can, 12  ounce. Fill this  and pour
it
           into the #15 can. The potting soil is slightly moist. To
transfer
           the  sprouts, stick your finger  down into the  soil, gently
pull
           the sprout from the  sprouter and stick  its root into the 
hole.
           Then push soil around the root let and water it immediately.
                As  for   watering  with   nutrients,  you  might  
consider
           Miracle-Gro  at  one teaspoon  per gallon.  There's no  reason
it
           wouldn't help the growth, although I haven't tested it yet.
               Baby  vegetable  plants need  lots  of  light. Ideally, 
the
           potting cans should  be outside  in a sunny  area. However, 
they
           want a temperature of 60  to 65 degrees F. at night and  70 to
75
           degrees  F. in  the light. Under  or over  that, they  won't
grow
           well.
                You can easily grow your  sprouts and young plants 
indoors.
           All you need is a table in a corner. For lighting you need a
four
           foot shop  light with a  48 inch 40  watt fluorescent Gro  &
Show
           Plant Light.  The entire unit  costs about $30.00  from
Wal-Mart.
           The light should be adjustable and 6 to 12 inches above the
plant
           tops and should be lit from 12 to 16 hours out of the 24.
                                LIGHT, POTS AND SPROUTER
                 Whatever table or  set of boards  you put your planters 
on, you
           don't  want  excess  water  dripping  on  the floor.  To 
prevent
           dripping,  spread sheet plastic over your table and cover it
with
           flattened cardboard  boxes from the  grocery. These will  soak
up
           and hold any excess water.
                Of course, you shouldn't over-water the plants to the
extent
           that there is that much  excess anyway. The best way to  water
is
           with a two gallon watering can from Wal-Mart. The sprinkler
spout
           is too wide for planters so should be removed. The best way is
to
           cut a six-inch length of  clear plastic one-half-inch tubing 
and
           seal it in the spout with Goop.
                This  spout will  let you  poke into  each can and  water
it
           without any runoff to speak of. Also, you only have to water
once
           every few days.  Just be sure to stick your  finger into the
soil
           once in a  while to see  of it's moist, since  you don!t want 
to
           over-water or let the soil get dry.
                When your plants get too  big for the pots or when  you
have
           garden  space, whichever comes first,  take them out  of the
pots
           and set them. I've  devised an easy way to do  this so there
will
           be no disturbance of the roots.
                The plant  and soil  has to be  pressed out and  set
without
           breaking  apart. The transplanter is made up of a Campbell's
Soup
           can and  a #15. Cut  the #15 down the  center and it  will
spring
           apart slightly.
                             POT, SOUP CAN AND SLIT CAN
                To use it, take the pots to the garden area and put the
soup
           can  bottom-up near the planting  spot. Next put  the potting
can
           inside  the slit can. Then,  with one finger  on the potting
can,
           just between  the slit,  hold the slit  can with the  other
hand.
           Push the  potting can down  over the  soup can while  lifting
the
           slit can, keeping it abreast of the emerging soil. As the soil
is
           exposed,  squeeze the  slit  can to  hold the  soil in  place
and
           transfer  it to  the hole  prepared  for it.  The hole  should
be
           slightly deeper  and wider so there will be no disturbance to
the
           plant.
                If you adopt  this system  I guarantee you'll  have all 
the
           vegetables  you need and more, for little work and small
expense.
           I  suggest you use the tire garden method, described in
Shoestring 
           Entrepreneur. They are raised beds and  produce much more than
the row
           method, as you can put your plants closer together.
                If  you   have  the   space,  you  might   consider 
growing
           commercially. What with all the flooding and droughts,  you
can't
           go wrong growing food.
                You might not get six crops of many plants besides
radishes.
           But if  you try this system, you'll learn a lot and you'll
surely
           get much more production than you would get with the  more
common
           gardening methods. 
 *********************************************************
     ATLAN FORMULARIES, P. O. Box 95, Alpena, Arkansas 72611
     (501) 437-299/FAX 437-2973
     CompuServe Address: 75721,55 or AOL: ATLANFORM
 


From hall@macs.mxim.com Sun Apr  2 21:44:57 EDT 1995
Article: 8862 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.i.net!news.world.net!macs!macs!not-for-mail
From: hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Gun detector - this week in TIME
Date: 28 Mar 1995 11:31:04 -0800
Organization: Maxim Integrated Products, Beaverton  OR.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <3l9o5o$24n@macs.mxim.com>
References: <3koj7g$38@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <3kpm82$oht@spock.usc.edu> <3kteth$qvk@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: macs.mxim.com

In article <3kteth$qvk@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sims@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Morton Murray Sims) writes:

>very well what if a human body does indeed emit microwaves. 
>what is the interaction mechanism? I know of NO biological function that
>generates radiation in the microwave range.

Actually the mechanism is physical, not biological.  And the amount
of energy emitted at those wave lengths is mighty small.  Most
bodies above absolute zero emit some radiation more or less
according to Planck's radiation law:

   I(l,T) = 2Pihc^2/El^5

where:

  I(l,T) is intensity as a function of l and T
  
  c = velocity of light
  h = Planck's constant
  l = wavelength

  E = exp(ch/lkt) - 1

  k = Boltzman's constant

  ^ means raised to a power, eg. x^3 means x cubed.

For normal temperatures this has a maximum in the infared but still
allows a little energy at longer wave lengths.  All academic to
this discussion of course since there is not enough microwave energy
to really be useful.  And this law is for "black-body" radiation so
the average human body doesn't follow it exactly.


From Ben Farmer Sun Apr  2 21:50:11 EDT 1995
Article: 8977 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.sccsi.com!nuchat!usenet
From: Ben Farmer
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Need Source for Army Manuals
Date: 30 Mar 1995 07:40:19 GMT
Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3ldn93$9ie@tattoo.sccsi.com>
References: <3lalvv$kq5@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tty10.com1.oknet.com
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ho@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho) writes:
>  Is is possible to buy US Army manuals from the Govt directly?
>  If Y, does anyone have a contact phone number?  



IMHO ordering US Army manuals from the govt directly is not
a good idea. This information is distributed on a "need to know"
basis, for example the TM 31-210 Improvised Munitions
Handbook would be distributed to a special forces or
demo unit, not a jeep mechanic. The govt may be interested
in the reason a person would want to know how to make
home made explosives which happen to be a felony
to posses. Where is the need to know? Your best bet
for purchasing US manuals is at your local gun show.
They can be had for around five dollars each by the box load.

But if however you are hell bent on buying manuals from the
feds, I hope your mailing address is not in Waco!

		Always Ask Why




From woolmata@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu Sun Apr  2 21:50:23 EDT 1995
Article: 8957 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!news.ecn.bgu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.drexel.edu!dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu!not-for-mail
From: woolmata@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (Thomas Woolman)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Need Source for Army Manuals
Date: 30 Mar 1995 13:32:56 -0500
Organization: Drexel University
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3letgo$1br@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
References: <3lalvv$kq5@agate.berkeley.edu> <3ldn93$9ie@tattoo.sccsi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu

In article <3ldn93$9ie@tattoo.sccsi.com>,  <Ben Farmer> wrote:
>>   ho@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho) writes:
>>  Is is possible to buy US Army manuals from the Govt directly?
>>  If Y, does anyone have a contact phone number?  
>
>

 Just go to a gun show. Better slection and probably better prices. You *might*
be able to get the "non-military" (ie, nothing referring to killing or
demolitions) type FMs froma Govt. bookstore (there's one in Philadelphia).
Something like Survival, or Care/Use of Clothing & Equipment (how to wash
your BDUs in the woods) might possibly be for sale but that's it. There's
no way Clinton will be supplying citizens with military information.
But you can find FMs and TMs galore (including out of print reproductions which
are very useful) at a decent gun show.

 If all elese fails write to Paladin Press or call them for a catalog.

^TW


-- 

"...I wonder if Elvis will take the place of Jesus in a thousand years."
                                                      - The Dead Kennedys



From sharris@myhost.subdomain.domain Sun Apr  2 21:51:49 EDT 1995
Article: 8885 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!myhost.subdomain.domain!sharris
From: sharris@myhost.subdomain.domain (Steve Harris)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: DEFEND THE NET! Read this, survivors unite!
Date: 29 Mar 1995 16:02:03 GMT
Organization: String to put in the Organization Header
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3lc09r$17oi@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ap.cl.msu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Ok, I'm sure most of you saw that post from ZANE DARNER trying to get
you to make $50,000 in a month with some stupid pyramid system. 
 
Did it piss you off, are you mad that people are crapping all over the
gentleman's agreement that binds the internet together.  We, are self
regulating, there are no laws that protect us, we do not need to go to
washington and say "protect us from the bad posts." "hey, hey, this guy
here placed an advertisement that had noting to do with our subject."
 
No crying, no running home to mama.  We defend ourselves.  Zane Darner's
personal home phone number is 1-360-452-1510.  Yes, the area code is
360.  It is not a mistake, its a new area code.  Please assist Mr Darner
in understanding that it was a mistake to make such a xxxxxx post.
 
Yours in LIBERTY,
Steve



From sdr57@cas.org Sun Apr  2 21:53:08 EDT 1995
Article: 8892 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!sdr57
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: First-aid
Message-ID: <1995Mar29.173659.10998@chemabs.uucp>
Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp
Organization: AMORG
References: <3kks8j$49p@male.EBay.Sun.COM> <rondavis-2103951314020001@davis.cybernetics.net> <3l74it$ba0@macs.mxim.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 17:36:59 GMT
Lines: 109

In article <3l74it$ba0@macs.mxim.com> hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <rondavis-2103951314020001@davis.cybernetics.net> rondavis@gateway.datawatch.com (Ron Davis) writes:
>>In article <3kks8j$49p@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com wrote:
>
>>>Worthless.  Alcohol is a rotten disinfectant unless you scrub with it.
>
>
>>   If alcohol is useless what would you suggest as a substitute?
>
>As has been mentioned here before, *the* topical disinfectant is
>10% povidone-Iodine.  The best known brand name is Betadyne but
>cheaper generic substitutes are available and just as effective.
>For use directly in a major wound it is still effective when diluted
>to 1% with potable water.  (A 10% solution is a bit strong for such
>a wound.  It would both sting and damage tissue.)  The biggest
>problem is that some people are allergic to iodine and obviously
>should not have this stuff brought into contact with open wounds.
>For those folks Hibiclens is probably the best substitute.

Some quick points:

 Alcohol (ethanol) is a fairly good disinfectant, being fast acting,
 however, it suffers from several defects:

 It can damage cells and induce a strong pain response, and thus
 should never be used for other than superficial wounds.

 It does not have good penetration ability and is not persistant;
 this means that the wound must be clean before it is used, or
 bacteria on the back of that piece of dirt won't be killed because
 they won't be exposed to the alcohol, and that, once the alcohol is
 gone, the wound may be reinfected (this is why you see such things
 as tincture of iodine and tincture of merthiolate - although the
 alcohol in these today is usually isopropyl - the alcohol gives
 a fast kill off of most bacteria and the iodine or merthiolate
 gives you persistance). The penetration problem noted above
 is the basis for the statement that "alcohol is a rotten disinfectant
 unless you scrub with it."

 Povidone-iodine is a good wound treatment for people without
 iodine sensitivity (always ask!)*.

 Hibiclens will cause tissue reactions, and should not be used on
 deep or penetrating wounds.

 WRT survivalist situations, both povidone-iodine and hibiclens
 suffer from the expiration date problem - they are not going to
 be around forever.

 In general, the survivalist would want to consider ethanol (distilled)
 as a surface disinfectant and as precursor chemical for the manufacture
 of anesthetics.

 For the treatment of wounds other than superficial wounds, options
 in a long-term survival situation would include:

  Use of massive saline lavage - in short, you keep the wound
  clean using lots of normal saline solution - this doesn't
  kill bacteria, it just keeps the bacteria count down at a
  level where the body can handle it; normal saline made from
  clean, ideally distilled, water and salt (NaCl) would
  probably be a produceable resource.

  If supplies of hypochlorite bleach are available, use of
  the Dakin-Carrel method as demonstrated in WWI. (Hypochlorite
  bleach is a useful stockpile item because of relatively long
  shelf life; it is an anesthetic precursor also; sodium hypochlorite
  is relatively easy to synthesize and might be available as a
  manufactured item even under conditions of radically reduced
  technology.) The WWI technique is suggested for survivalist
  situations over later versions which used more complex solutions
  because of its low complexity and use of only simple materials;
  if better materials are available, obviously these would be used.
  There are several references to this process: one of the clearest
  is the chapter in W. W. Keen's book "The Treatment of War
  Wounds" (W. B. Saunders, 1917) which describes the Dakin-Carrel
  Method and which includes good illustrations of the treatment
  process.

  Maggot therapy, which was previously discussed on this newsgroup.



*A note on asking: always be sure the patient understands what
you are asking - there is the classic case of the nurse who,
wishing to be sure that the nice old lady wasn't allergic to
penicillin, made a point of asking her if she had ever been
given penicillin before. The nice old lady answered that "yes,
she had received it before." Thus reassured, the nurse gave the
injection. The nice old lady immediately went into a massive
allergic reaction, from which she was saved by prompt and
equally massive countermeasures by the ER crew. The nice old
lady, conscious, if weak, and noticing the distress of the
nurse who had given the injection, said: "Don't be so upset,
dear, this is just what happened the last time they gave it
to me."

Probably apocryphal, but it makes the point :-)

******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley Roberts



From greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com Sun Apr  2 21:58:58 EDT 1995
Article: 8925 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!venus.sun.com!male.EBay.Sun.COM!antizen!greg
From: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: First-aid
Date: 29 Mar 1995 21:38:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 30
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3lck06$9gj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
References: <1995Mar29.173659.10998@chemabs.uucp>
Reply-To: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com

Stanley -

Excellent post regarding irrigation.

A couple of points,

> Alcohol (ethanol) is a fairly good disinfectant, being fast acting,
> however, it suffers from several defects:

Everything I've heard in the last few years says alcohol is not a good
antimicrobial agent, including the microbiology course at San Jose City College,
for what's that's worth.

I'm getting used to these contradiction however and since I didn't do 
the tests myself, I'll have to leave it at that.

To add to your irrigation information, all the current sources, including
Dr. Eric Weiss (one of the 5 or 6 MD's involved in wilderness medicine
education) city tap water may prove more effective in wound irrigation
than even sterile saline.

In any event, as a rule, any water clean enough to drink is clean enough
to use for wound irrigation.

Greg







From sdr57@cas.org Sun Apr  2 22:04:12 EDT 1995
Article: 8976 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!news.erinet.com!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!sdr57
From: sdr57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: First-aid
Message-ID: <1995Mar31.191157.6596@chemabs.uucp>
Sender: usenet@chemabs.uucp
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
References: <1995Mar29.173659.10998@chemabs.uucp> <3lck06$9gj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 19:11:57 GMT
Lines: 161

In article <3lck06$9gj@male.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com writes:
>Stanley -
>
>Excellent post regarding irrigation.
>
>A couple of points,
>
>> Alcohol (ethanol) is a fairly good disinfectant, being fast acting,
>> however, it suffers from several defects:
>
>Everything I've heard in the last few years says alcohol is not a good
>antimicrobial agent, including the microbiology course at San Jose City College,
>for what's that's worth.
>
>I'm getting used to these contradiction however and since I didn't do
>the tests myself, I'll have to leave it at that.

A lot depends on what organisms you run the tests with, of course.
Certainly there are some organisms that are resistant to ethanol.
OTOH, there are organisms that aren't, including some resistant
to other antibacterials. (see appended references)

A lot also depends on how you use it, and it is important to remember
that it is not persistent. In particular, the use issue is a pain.
Just pouring it on something generally leaves you with a surface
that remains contaminated after it evaporates or is poured off.

It is not a good disinfectant for large wounds for the reasons
given in the previous post.

In a long term survival situation, I think ethanol has the following
going for it wrt medical uses:

    It can be prepared with very low technology (and, in fact, would
    probably be available as "trade goods" relatively rapidly after
    even a major disaster due to use for human consumption :-).

    It is a useful precursor for other medically useful materials.

    It can be used as a disinfectant for minor wounds (scratches),
    as a sterilant (by evaporation) for cleaned medical goods, and
    as a preoperative skin disinfectant.

    It can be used for cooling (applied to the skin) for control
    of high fever.

    In can be used as a solvent in various drug formulations,
    including formulations intended for oral administration.

    It can be used as a fuel for alcohol lamps in your microbiology
    facility.

For these specific uses, and with the understanding that it is
used by someone who knows how to use it, I would recommend it.
I would strongly agree that it is _not_ the be all and end all
of disinfectants that it is frequently thought of being popularly.
A lot depends on what you have available to you, and, when you've
got something better, I definitely wouldn't use ethanol.

>
>To add to your irrigation information, all the current sources, including
>Dr. Eric Weiss (one of the 5 or 6 MD's involved in wilderness medicine
>education) city tap water may prove more effective in wound irrigation
>than even sterile saline.
>
>In any event, as a rule, any water clean enough to drink is clean enough
>to use for wound irrigation.
>

For simple irrigations, I would go along with the idea that
purified tap water is probably at least as good as good as
sterile saline (among other things, the residual chemicals in
the tap water can kill bacteria that are not dislodged). I would
also agree that water pure enough for drinking is useful for
irrigation in survival situations (watch out for iodine
sensitivities if you are using iodine-purified water, of course).
My reason for suggesting normal saline was that I was thinking
in terms of repeated or continuous lavage of a large wound, in
which case I feel you want to use saline or better isotonic
solutions in order to avoid causing too many imbalances.
(I am including surgical wounds here as well as injury wounds;
consider surgeries under austere conditions where you may need
to do a delayed closure but also need to insure that the wound
wound does not dry - the normal practice of placing a drain may
even be inappropriate in the austere environment due to the
possible increase in the frequency and magnitude of infections).
Since I very cleverly kept this thinking to myself, my post
was unclear. Certainly, when using pressurized irrigation
(probably using a syringe under austere conditions) as part of
the initial cleaning/debridement of the wound, saline is optional.


Some references on ethanol (EtOH):

Bloomfield, Sally F.; Arthur, M.; Begun, K.; Patel, H.; "Comparative
testing of disinfectants using proposed European surface test methods,"
Lett. Appl. Microbiol. (1993), 17(3), 119-125

(based on results reported in table 5:
      EtOH produced log redns. in viable count of >6.4 (i.e., no
      detectable survivors) after a 5-min contact period against
      Staphylococcus aureus and Enterococcus faecium, of >6.0
      against Pseudomonas aeruginosa, and of >5.4 against Candida
      albicans.  Increased activity was obsd. by increasing the
      disinfectant contact time to 30 min.)


Miyoshi, Toshiyuki et al; "The effects of disinfectants on Staphylococcus
aureus," J. Jpn. Soc. Hosp. Pharm. (1993), 29(12), 1411-14

(excerpted from the abstract:
     Effects of various disinfectants on the growth of 9 and 1 clin.
     isolates of methicillin-sensitive and -resistant S. aureus, resp.,
     were investigated.

     EtOH for disinfection, 0.1% benzalkonium chloride, 2% glutaraldehyde
     ^^^^
     soln., 1 and 10% providone iodine soln., and 1% sodium hypochlorite
     also showed good disinfection.)               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Use as a sterilant:

Kanai, Mieko et al; "Bactericidal effect of evaporated ethanol,"
Bokin Bobai (1994), 22(1), 23-7

(excerpted from the abstract:

     The authors investigated the bactericidal effect of evapd. ethanol from
     solns. in closed cells at 5, 20 and 35 degrees C, and obtained the
     following results: 1) evapd. ethanol showed a dramatic bactericidal
     effect on bacteria inoculated onto the filter paper in wet
     conditions.  This effect appeared to be mediated by the ethanol
     absorbed in the water around the bacterial cells.  2) The
     bactericidal activity of ethanol in the vapor form was dependent on
     the temp. and assocd. with evaporization velocity of ethanol and d.
     of vapor.  The amt. of absorbed ethanol in filters increased in
     accordance with the extended exposure time.  The concn. of absorbed
     ethanol in the filter for the perfect-thermal-death points for three
     bacterial strains tested such as Staphylococcus aureus, Escherichia
     coli and Salmonella enteritidis was 45-48%, 35-37% and 28-37% at
     5 degrees C, 20 degrees C and 35 degrees C, resp.  3) Complete
     sterilization could be achieved by evapd. ethanol from 60% soln. kept
     at room temp. as well as that from 95% ethanol soln. for the strains
     examd. here.  These data imply that ethanol for gaseous sterilization
     at room temp. could be applied in many fields.)


And we haven't even touched on the efficacy of silver and its
compounds against bacteria.

******************************************************************************
Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral,
academics are...a chemist, too.
		    -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine")

My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and
I doubt they'll start now.

Stanley Roberts



From rickd@primenet.com Sun Apr  2 22:07:35 EDT 1995
Article: 8943 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip072.lax

.primenet.com!rickd
From: rickd@primenet.com (Rick De Castro)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: First-aid
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:27:22 MST
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 156
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <rickd.22.00621AAB@primenet.com>
References: <rickd.19.00126C0A@primenet.com> <3l7f98$3vj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
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In article <3l7f98$3vj@male.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...) writes:
>From: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...)
>Subject: Re: First-aid
>Date: 27 Mar 1995 22:47:04 GMT


>Richard - I'm disappointed by your response....

Greg, I'd like to appologize for the comment I made about your knowledge and 
attitude.  It was both uncalled for and unprofessional on my part.

But, I still disagree with some of your points:

>>Yes, I was 
trained first by the Red Cross.  In fact, I was a first aid >>(standard and 
advanced) instructor.  I can make more than a dozen legitimate >>bandages and 
dressings from a triangular.

>Yup, there it is, Red Cross.  No doubt you're referring to all those 
>nifty traditional cravat dressings, right? The one's that are difficult
>to do well because cravats don't stretch and you have to know just how
>to twist the cravat when using them on limbs, which taper? Or else the
>whole thing will slip off?

If you tie them correctly, they don't slip.  And, I'll be the first one to say 
that for most cases, there are better alternatives.  But, I know of few 
things as small and lightweight that I can carry in my aid bag that I can do 
as much with.

>I know you're aware of cling bandages.  It's good to know a few 
basic >techniques with cravats - sling and swathe - in case you have in 
improvise,>but filling your kit with cravats is a waste of space.

I never said fill, I said a couple (few).  I think the standard military 
medic's bag loadout of a dozen triangulars is silly.

>I pack the most versatile 
items, and am prepared to improvise.  Cravat>skills belong in the "improvised" 
section, not the "versatile".

I disagree, but that's OK.  I carry a couple, and find them quite versatile.

>>Triangulars have dozens of uses.  Including some very practical ones.  But,
>etc...

>Richard - I don't waste space of tri's because the 4" stockinette can do
>*anything* I can do with tri's, only better.  I use and teach two fairly
>slick splinting techniques with stockinette that can splint pretty much
>any upper arm injury.

>BUT, the stockinette, since it's stretchy, can do a variety of things
>your plain muslin triangular bandage can't do well, or at all.

But, the triangular, since it's not stretchy at all, can do things that the 
stockinette or kling can't do at all.  Like secure things.  I've used 
triangulars to secure pt's to backboards, stokes stretchers, for improvising 
splints, etc.

I actually carry both kling and triangulars in my medical bags.

>You like 'em? Fine, 
you carry 'em.  I work as a volunteer EMT most of the year>and teach 
wilderness medicine and frankly I have better to offer.

The Wilderness EMT textbook that I'm familar with specifies a couple of 
triangulars in every kit.

>I can do better with a pair of panty hose than I can 
with a triangular bandage.

Yeah, maybe so.  But your patient would look silly <g>.

Also, I can store a bunch of triangulars in the space one the those eggs takes 
up.  Actually I can store 4 or 6 in the space that one roll of 3" kling takes.

>>I also know a couple (of dozen) workarounds and better tools than 
triangulars >>for sling and swath]

>Well, I know better techniques than the "good ole S&S" and use them routinely
>*when I work*.  The MD's that see the patients I treat like them also.

>>What is incorrect about his statement about arterial bleeding?

>Richard - I would expect you to know this, but since you've backed me into
>a position of defending myself -

>Arteries have rings of muscle which will spasm in almost all cases of arterial
>bleeds.  I can't imagine that with your experience you don't have significant
>experience using direct pressue, but I do.  I've seen a severed radial (wrist) artery
>"spasm off" by itself with only a short period of direct pressure.

I have learned, and taught, that if all else fails, to use a tourniquet.  I 
have even been in a case where a tourniquet was the only thing that saved a 
tree feller who performed a traumatic amputation  (BK) with his chain saw.  
While your understanding of the anatomy of an artery is correct, you should 
know that if the cut is not clean, the artery may not be able to spasm and 
prevent blood flow.  The pt. I treated (with a BP cuff tourniquet, btw) 
survived (wasn't able to reattach the limb), but on admission is hematocrit 
was 18, he had lost so much blood (normal for a male is about 40-45).

We elected to use the tourniquet  after direct pressure,elevation, and the 
femoral artery pressure point failed to stop the bleeding.  We could have 
maintained pressure to the pressure point, but at that point the pt. would 
have suffered much more tissue morbidity.  With fewer rescuers than we had at 
that time, I could see the improvisation of using a rock over the pressure 
point, held with a bandage of some sort (non stretchy <g>), to stop blood 
flow, if we were going to sacrifice the entire limb. 

In fact, I recently completed the National Registry exam, and there was a 
tourniquet question on there.  They don't exist wasn't one of the choices.  
Most textbooks that I'm familiar with also define the time and place of 
usage of a tourniquet.

>I have been taught, I teach, and I practice forgetting 
tourniquets exist.>If and when that rare occassion or injury occurs when one 
is needed, it will>be clear at that point.

I have taught, and I teach, that a tourniquet is a last resort tool, and 
should be used that way.

>THE PROBLEM lies with people who don't have 
experience resorting to a tourniquet>entirely too soon or inappropriately.

That's true, but removing the tourniquet from our armamentarium is 
counterproductive.  Training and experience overcome that 
problem.

>***  I can't believe I'm saying this to you Richard, I've got to believe
>     you know all this already *****

>>And you need experience, and an attitude adjustment.  I doubt that you know 
>>0.01% as much as you no doubt think you do.

>This statement doesn't do your alledged credentials justice.  I'm wondering
>if the high esteem I've placed on your posts were somewhat inflated....

And again, I appologize for my comments.
>If you disapprove of my attitute, then I apologize.  I am, however, considerably
>diappointed in the quality or your response.

Frankly, Greg, I'm a bit concerned at the decisions you seem to have made 
to only teach certain skills and techniques - especially when the skills 
are accepted by the majority of medical practicioners.  I realize that 
wilderness medicine is different than street or hospital medicine, that 
makes it even more strange to me that you're limiting yourself and your 
students.

But, reasonable people can, hopefully, disagree reasonably.




> 





From rickd@primenet.com Sun Apr  2 22:09:03 EDT 1995
Article: 8943 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.primenet.com!ip072.lax

.primenet.com!rickd
From: rickd@primenet.com (Rick De Castro)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: First-aid
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 14:27:22 MST
Organization: Primenet
Lines: 156
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <rickd.22.00621AAB@primenet.com>
References: <rickd.19.00126C0A@primenet.com> <3l7f98$3vj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
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In article <3l7f98$3vj@male.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...) writes:
>From: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...)
>Subject: Re: First-aid
>Date: 27 Mar 1995 22:47:04 GMT


>Richard - I'm disappointed by your response....

Greg, I'd like to appologize for the comment I made about your knowledge and 
attitude.  It was both uncalled for and unprofessional on my part.

But, I still disagree with some of your points:

>>Yes, I was 
trained first by the Red Cross.  In fact, I was a first aid >>(standard and 
advanced) instructor.  I can make more than a dozen legitimate >>bandages and 
dressings from a triangular.

>Yup, there it is, Red Cross.  No doubt you're referring to all those 
>nifty traditional cravat dressings, right? The one's that are difficult
>to do well because cravats don't stretch and you have to know just how
>to twist the cravat when using them on limbs, which taper? Or else the
>whole thing will slip off?

If you tie them correctly, they don't slip.  And, I'll be the first one to say 
that for most cases, there are better alternatives.  But, I know of few 
things as small and lightweight that I can carry in my aid bag that I can do 
as much with.

>I know you're aware of cling bandages.  It's good to know a few 
basic >techniques with cravats - sling and swathe - in case you have in 
improvise,>but filling your kit with cravats is a waste of space.

I never said fill, I said a couple (few).  I think the standard military 
medic's bag loadout of a dozen triangulars is silly.

>I pack the most versatile 
items, and am prepared to improvise.  Cravat>skills belong in the "improvised" 
section, not the "versatile".

I disagree, but that's OK.  I carry a couple, and find them quite versatile.

>>Triangulars have dozens of uses.  Including some very practical ones.  But,
>etc...

>Richard - I don't waste space of tri's because the 4" stockinette can do
>*anything* I can do with tri's, only better.  I use and teach two fairly
>slick splinting techniques with stockinette that can splint pretty much
>any upper arm injury.

>BUT, the stockinette, since it's stretchy, can do a variety of things
>your plain muslin triangular bandage can't do well, or at all.

But, the triangular, since it's not stretchy at all, can do things that the 
stockinette or kling can't do at all.  Like secure things.  I've used 
triangulars to secure pt's to backboards, stokes stretchers, for improvising 
splints, etc.

I actually carry both kling and triangulars in my medical bags.

>You like 'em? Fine, 
you carry 'em.  I work as a volunteer EMT most of the year>and teach 
wilderness medicine and frankly I have better to offer.

The Wilderness EMT textbook that I'm familar with specifies a couple of 
triangulars in every kit.

>I can do better with a pair of panty hose than I can 
with a triangular bandage.

Yeah, maybe so.  But your patient would look silly <g>.

Also, I can store a bunch of triangulars in the space one the those eggs takes 
up.  Actually I can store 4 or 6 in the space that one roll of 3" kling takes.

>>I also know a couple (of dozen) workarounds and better tools than 
triangulars >>for sling and swath]

>Well, I know better techniques than the "good ole S&S" and use them routinely
>*when I work*.  The MD's that see the patients I treat like them also.

>>What is incorrect about his statement about arterial bleeding?

>Richard - I would expect you to know this, but since you've backed me into
>a position of defending myself -

>Arteries have rings of muscle which will spasm in almost all cases of arterial
>bleeds.  I can't imagine that with your experience you don't have significant
>experience using direct pressue, but I do.  I've seen a severed radial (wrist) artery
>"spasm off" by itself with only a short period of direct pressure.

I have learned, and taught, that if all else fails, to use a tourniquet.  I 
have even been in a case where a tourniquet was the only thing that saved a 
tree feller who performed a traumatic amputation  (BK) with his chain saw.  
While your understanding of the anatomy of an artery is correct, you should 
know that if the cut is not clean, the artery may not be able to spasm and 
prevent blood flow.  The pt. I treated (with a BP cuff tourniquet, btw) 
survived (wasn't able to reattach the limb), but on admission is hematocrit 
was 18, he had lost so much blood (normal for a male is about 40-45).

We elected to use the tourniquet  after direct pressure,elevation, and the 
femoral artery pressure point failed to stop the bleeding.  We could have 
maintained pressure to the pressure point, but at that point the pt. would 
have suffered much more tissue morbidity.  With fewer rescuers than we had at 
that time, I could see the improvisation of using a rock over the pressure 
point, held with a bandage of some sort (non stretchy <g>), to stop blood 
flow, if we were going to sacrifice the entire limb. 

In fact, I recently completed the National Registry exam, and there was a 
tourniquet question on there.  They don't exist wasn't one of the choices.  
Most textbooks that I'm familiar with also define the time and place of 
usage of a tourniquet.

>I have been taught, I teach, and I practice forgetting 
tourniquets exist.>If and when that rare occassion or injury occurs when one 
is needed, it will>be clear at that point.

I have taught, and I teach, that a tourniquet is a last resort tool, and 
should be used that way.

>THE PROBLEM lies with people who don't have 
experience resorting to a tourniquet>entirely too soon or inappropriately.

That's true, but removing the tourniquet from our armamentarium is 
counterproductive.  Training and experience overcome that 
problem.

>***  I can't believe I'm saying this to you Richard, I've got to believe
>     you know all this already *****

>>And you need experience, and an attitude adjustment.  I doubt that you know 
>>0.01% as much as you no doubt think you do.

>This statement doesn't do your alledged credentials justice.  I'm wondering
>if the high esteem I've placed on your posts were somewhat inflated....

And again, I appologize for my comments.
>If you disapprove of my attitute, then I apologize.  I am, however, considerably
>diappointed in the quality or your response.

Frankly, Greg, I'm a bit concerned at the decisions you seem to have made 
to only teach certain skills and techniques - especially when the skills 
are accepted by the majority of medical practicioners.  I realize that 
wilderness medicine is different than street or hospital medicine, that 
makes it even more strange to me that you're limiting yourself and your 
students.

But, reasonable people can, hopefully, disagree reasonably.




> 





From greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com Sun Apr  2 22:09:56 EDT 1995
Article: 8916 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!venus.sun.com!male.EBay.Sun.COM!antizen!greg
From: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Yes, I'm still here...)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: First-aid
Date: 30 Mar 1995 02:52:42 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Lines: 74
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ld6dq$d8u@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
References: <rickd.22.00621AAB@primenet.com>
Reply-To: greg@antizen.ebay.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com


Richard responds -

>Greg, I'd like to appologize for the comment I made about your knowledge and 
>attitude.  It was both uncalled for and unprofessional on my part.

I'll accept the knowledge part, the attitude section probably was proably
called for.

No problem, I just don't like getting burnt by a  Rick De Castro flame...

Everything above this first response I basically agree with...

>But, the triangular, since it's not stretchy at all, can do things that the 
>stockinette or kling can't do at all.  Like secure things.  I've used 
>triangulars to secure pt's to backboards, stokes stretchers, for improvising 
>splints, etc.

Ah, I must concede at this point, I was thinking narrowly in terms of 
dressings and such.

You're absolutely correct above...

>The Wilderness EMT textbook that I'm familar with specifies a couple of 
>triangulars in every kit.

The company and the curriculum I work with is *every-so-slightly* ahead 
of the basic wilderness FA curriculum.  As a wilderness medic, I really
try not to carry anything I can improvise.

>Yeah, maybe so.  But your patient would look silly <g>.

SERVES 'EM RIGHT GODDAMMITT FOR SCREWING UP!!!!!!!!

>I have learned, and taught, that if all else fails, to use a tourniquet

For you, an experienced medic, fine.  

I want my students to go all the way and try every damn thing before 
they even remember what I turniquet is.  Unfortunately most untrainned
people I encounter *do* know what one is.

It's the direct pressure that's the new trick...

*excellent case history BTW*

>Frankly, Greg, I'm a bit concerned at the decisions you seem to have made 
>to only teach certain skills and techniques

Again a reflection of a very specialized and unique curriculum I work with.
We take students from ABC's to chest decompression, meds, and other fairly
cool stuff.  We do this in frankly *not enough time*.

I'm really concerned about teaching them about stopping bleeding, and we
do mention turniquets, we usually say "forget you ever heard of turniquets,
you'll know when you really need one".

>But, reasonable people can, hopefully, disagree reasonably.


Sorry, I disagree,

Greg













From vaq@ornl.gov Sun Apr  2 22:19:02 EDT 1995
Article: 8982 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!vaq.win.ornl.gov!vaq
From: vaq@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: 55 gal. drums (was Re:...liter bottles?)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:27:40 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <vaq.88.2F7C034C@ornl.gov>
References: <3lgend$1270@ns3-1.CC.Lehigh.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vaq.win.ornl.gov
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]


>>>Anybody with storage advice?
>>
>>
>>I've tried that route. It's a genuine pain in the tuckus. You wind up
>>carting a zillion bottles back and forth. There's a better way: You can get
>>large polyethylene barrels 

Another cheaper idea is to buy food-grade liners for reused barrels.  The 
Plastics Co @ 800.567.2718 carries several sizes to fit barrels up to 55-gal.  


Use any open-head barrel whose insides are smooth enough to not overly abrade 
the liner and whose lid is, or can be made to be, compatible w/ water.  
Beekeeping suppliers (AI Root, Walter Kelly, Brushy Mountain, Dadant) sell a 
food-grade paint for use on honey handling equipment that works great.


Logan VanLeigh
Once and Future Country Boy


From ostrich@bayou.com Sun Apr  2 22:19:54 EDT 1995
Article: 9003 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!bayou.com!ostrich
Subject: ASG survival kits (MarkD)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
From: ostrich@bayou.com
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 95 12:00:07 EST
Message-ID: <7807245794101@bayou.com>
Organization: Bayou Internet - W. Monroe, LA  318-397-0418
Lines: 23



IM>I would be very interested in the information from ASG on putting together
IM>a survival kit.  Could I get this information from you either through fax
IM>or e-mail?

Mark, several issues of ASG have had articles covering the creation of
survival kits (and evolution of, as my wifey points out over my
shoulder).  Some of these issues are old (like the ones I'm interested
in) and AFAIK are no longer available from ASG.  If Scott
(scott4asg@aol.com) says okay, I'll photocopy what I've got and
snail-mail the bundle to ya.

PS- sorry for the long delay.  I was out of town for a week and it took
another week to get caught up on my mail reading.

cya!
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

--
Bayou Internet  W. Monroe, LA 318-397-0418



From an143977@anon.penet.fi Sun Apr  2 22:22:32 EDT 1995
Article: 8991 of misc.survivalism
Message-ID: <172304Z01041995@anon.penet.fi>
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.society.civil-liberties,alt.society.civil-liberty,talk.politics.guns,misc.legal,misc.survivalism,an143977
From: an143977@anon.penet.fi (Isaiah Amoz)
X-Anonymously-To: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.society.civil-liberties,alt.society.civil-liberty,talk.politics.guns,misc.legal,misc.survivalism,an143977
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Reply-To: an143977@anon.penet.fi
Date: Sat,  1 Apr 1995 17:14:18 UTC
Subject: Directory of MILITIAS Draft 4: March 31
Lines: 313
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu alt.conspiracy:80285 alt.politics.usa.constitution:20277 alt.society.civil-liberties:6074 alt.society.civil-liberty:25086 talk.politics.guns:180163 misc.legal:103151 misc.survivalism:8991

March 31, 1995
STATE LISTING OF MILITIAS

References

1.  ATF Briefing Paper,  Intelligence Division,  October 26, 1994.
2.  The Freedom Networker, Nov. 1994, p. 22., The American Freedom Network,
42015 Ford Rd., #260, Canton, MI 48187.
3.  an115797@anon.penet.fi
4.  The Sportsman's Voice, 1994 July issue.
5.  MSG Studies Group Course Catalog
6.  San Diego Militia Newsletter
7.  cutter@gloster.via.mind.org (chris)
8.  St. Louis Militia Rally (jhollo1466@aol.com)
9.  an185076@anon.penet.fi
10. Texas Militia Correspondence Comm.
11. Soldier of Fortune magazine (April, 1995)
12. an176248@anon.penet.fi
13. an210496@anon.penet.fi
14. Idaho Militia Meeting (bobe@boi.hp.com (Bob Evans))
15. Part 17: INTELLIGENCE REPORT, jad@gti.gti.net (John A. DiNardo)
16. an217159@anon.penet.fi
17. American Patriot Network News and Directory, an185076@anon.penet.fi


  All listings are from reference 1 unless specified. Please send all
corrections, additions, updates, and comments to: an143977@anon.penet.fi.
  No judgement should be made about the integrity of any unit based upon
comments made by the BATF or the Department of Justice.  The conduct of an
individual within a unit should not be taken as a defining characteristic of an
entire organization.


  ALABAMA
                                           Second Amendment is for Everyone
 Unorganized Militia Affiliate             (Arizona) [16]
                                           Earnest Hancock
ALABAMA MILITIA [17]                       (602) 375-0060
P. O. Box 2                                e-mail:safe@indirect.com
Attalla, AL 35954
(205) 547-5081                             Yavapai County Militia [9],[17]
V Mike Kemp                                Eric Frizzel
                                           %15568 S. Black Mtn Rd
                                           Mayer. AZ 86333
 ARIZONA                                   (602) 632-8046
                                           (602) 407-8236
 Sovereign Citizens Movement

The People of the State of Arizona          ARKANSAS
[15]
Steve Porack                                Unorganized Militia Affiliate
(602) 870-9791
FAX (602) 978-2312
                                            CALIFORNIA
Militia of Aizona Regulars
Bob McNary
Beeper: (602) 210-3740                     San Diego Militia [6]


                                   Page 1


PO Box 12361                               bobe@boi.hp.com (Bob Evans) [14]
La Jolla, CA 92039
(619)272-1789
e-mail:militia@tomlinson.com               INDIANA
BBS:592-0464,,,,22
PGP Key Available                          Unorganized Militia


COLORADO
                                           MICHIGAN
 Guardians of American Liberty
(GOAL)                                     Michigan Militia Corps [4]
                                           (616) 548-4867

CONNECTICUT
                                           Northern Michigan Militia
Military Studies Group [5]
1131-0 Tolland Tpke.                       MICHIGAN MILITIA [17]
Suite 124                                  State Communications Center
Manchester, Conn. 06040                    261 Heacock Rd
(203) 645-1736 M-F (8-10PM)                Harbor Springs, MI 49740
Listed in 1992 catalog as a Training       Attn: Col. Ken Adams
Facility.                                  (616) 526-3900
                                           (616) 526-9397
Blue Trail Range                           FAX BACK (616) 526-9878 ext 7
"Non marching" meets regularly at          Militia  (BBS):(810) 693-6012
the Blue Trails range.                     Ph (810) 693-3629 Kevin Shane
316 North Branford Rd
Wallingford CT 06492
203-269-3280
                                           MISSOURI

FLORIDA                                    Continental Militia

American Citizen Alliance                  1st Missouri Volunteers [9]
                                           PO Box 31233
Florida State Militia 2nd Regiment         Des Peres, MO 63131
                                           (314) 230-2445
The Highlanders, Florida State             jhollo1466@aol.com
Militia 7th Regiment [10]
Dan Strickland
(904)271-4070                               MONTANA

CONGRESS OF FLORIDA MILITIAS [17]           MOM
3745 Racker Hwy, Winter Haven, FL
(813) 293-3197                             The Militia of Montana[2]
                                           c/o PO Box 1486
                                           Noxon, MT  59853
GEORGIA                                    FAX/VOICE 406-847-2246
                                           For regular intel briefing reports,
111th North Georgia Militia                ask to be on their FAX list.


 IDAHO                                      NEVADA

United States Militia Association,          Nevada Volunteers
Boise , Idaho


                                   Page 2


                                           A.D. Wade (615) 744-8464 Decatur
NEW MEXICO                                 (BBS) (615) 74409924

New Mexico Militia [12]                     TEXAS
Mike Dew (Gideon)
PO Box 153, Mountainair NM  87036          Concerned Americans
(505)847-2831
Jim Thorsen (Caleb) Chairman               SECOND AMENDMENT FREEDOM ENTERPRISE,
FAX (505)897-8789                          INC. (S.A.F.E.) [17]
                                           Box 430, Yoakum, TX 77995
                                           (512) 741-SAFE
NEW YORK                                   $25 yr Membership
Naked Truth Bay Shore, New York            Newsletter: Safe-keeper 
                                           Email:loboazul@aol.com

 NORTH CAROLINA                            Texas Militia [10]
                                           e-mail: jdr@usa.net

OHIO                                       Texas Constitutional Militia
                                           [11],[16]
OHIO UNORGANIZED MILITIA                   Steve Brown
                                           7327 Autum Park
the Guardians of American Liberties        San Antonio, TX 78249
                                           (210) 694-4561
OHIO MILITIA [17]                          FAX (210) 341-3212
James Johnson
P. O. Box 44404                            Texas Light Infantry [11]
Columbus, OH 43204                         Neil Watt, Regimental Cmdr.
(614) 272-8828                             (512) 461-9836
74634.33@compuserve.com

                                            WEST VIRGINIA
PENNSYLVANIA
                                           WEST VIRGINIA MILITIA [17]
The Pennsylvania Militia, 9th              HC 68 Box 10
Regiment [3]                               Wileyville, WV 26186
Company F                                  Jeff Gerald
P.O. Box 1396                              (304) 889-2786
Morrisville, PA 19067

                                            WISCONSIN
SOUTH DAKOTA
                                            Free Militia
 TRI-STATE MILITIA

                                            UNITED STATES
TENNESSEE
                                           US Field Forces-
Harry P. Bibee III [13]                    National Militia [11]
2224 Fisher Place                          ["Non-Marching"]
Knoxville TN 37920                         Field HQ
(615) 577-7011                             PO Box 432
HPBIII@AOL.COM                             Camp Bradley, M.B., FL 32066-0432
                                           (904) 294-3015
TENNESSEE MILITIA [17]
Mark Barlew
Signal Mountain, TN


                                   Page 3





PUBLICATIONS

1.  THE RESISTER ---- The Official Publication of the Special Forces
Underground; Last transcribed by Leslie Bates, POB 581313, Minneapolis, MN
55458; LESBATES@DELPHI.COM, Voice (612)381-0436.  Subscriptions: $20.00/yr.,
quarterly, Cash or BLANK money order, ABSOLUTELY NO CHECKS.  Send order to:
Militia Publications, c/o The RESISTER, POB 2723, Hagerstown, MD 21741.


LEGAL

The Militia Act [7]

     --CITE
         10 USC Sec. 311

        --EXPCITE
         TITLE 10
         Subtitle A
         PART I
         CHAPTER 13

     --HEAD
         Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes

        --STATUTE
           (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
         males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
         313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
         declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
         and of female citizens of the United States who are commissioned
         officers of the National Guard.
           (b) The classes of the militia are -
             (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
           and the Naval Militia; and
             (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
           the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
           Naval Militia.

-SOURCE-
         (Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Sept. 2, 1958, Pub. L.
         85-861, Sec. 1(7), 72 Stat. 1439.)

-MISC1-
                            Historical and Revision Notes
                                      1956 Act
         -----------------------------------------------------------------
         Revised section        Source (U.S. Code)     Source (Statutes at
                                                        Large)
         -----------------------------------------------------------------
         311(a)                 32:1 (less last 19     June 3, 1916, ch.
                                 words).                134, Sec. 57, 39
                                                        Stat. 197; June 28,
                                                        1947, ch. 162, Sec.


                                   Page 4


                                                        7 (as applicable to
                                                        Sec. 57 of the Act
                                                        of June 3, 1916,
                                                        ch. 134), 61 Stat.
                                                        192.
         311(b)                 32:1 (last 19 words).
                           -----------------------------
           In subsection (a), the words 'who have made a declaration of
         intention' are substituted for the words 'who have or shall have
         declared their intention'.  The words 'at least 17 years of age and
         * * * under 45 years of age' are substituted for the words 'who
         shall be more than seventeen years of age and * * * not more than
         forty-five years of age'.  The words 'except as provided in section
         313 of title 32' are substituted for the words 'except as
         hereinafter provided', to make explicit the exception as to maximum
         age.
           In subsection (b), the words 'The organized militia, which
         consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia' are
         substituted for the words 'the National Guard, the Naval Militia',
         since the National Guard and the Naval Militia constitute the
         organized militia.
                                      1958 Act
         -----------------------------------------------------------------

         Revised section        Source (U.S. Code)     Source (Statutes at
                                                        Large)
         -----------------------------------------------------------------

         311(a)                 32 App.:1.             July 30, 1956, ch.
                                                        789, Sec. 1, 70
                                                        Stat. 729.
                          ------------------------------
           The words 'appointed as . . . under section 4 of this title' are
         omitted as surplusage.
                                      AMENDMENTS
           1958 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 85-861 included female citizens of
         the United States who are commissioned officers of the National
         Guard.

-CROSS-
                                   CROSS REFERENCES
           Congressional power to provide for organization, equipment,
         discipline, and government of Militia, see Const. Art. 1, Se. 8,
         cl. 16.
           Declaration of intention to become a citizen of the United
         States, see section 1445 of Title 8, Aliens and Nationality.

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                                   Page 5
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From hall@macs.mxim.com Sun Apr  2 22:24:35 EDT 1995
Article: 8871 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.i.net!news.world.net!macs!macs!not-for-mail
From: hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 28 Mar 1995 06:39:52 -0800
Organization: Maxim Integrated Products, Beaverton  OR.
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <3l973o$cg9@macs.mxim.com>
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: macs.mxim.com

In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU writes:

>I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
>However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is,

Very stable.  The carbonic acid in soda is rather corrosive so these
containers must be stable to stand up against it.  They are
excellent for long term storage.

>and what I should treat the water with to make it last longer.

First, start with good pure water.  If it comes from a municipal
system in the US it will already have most junk removed and the pH
adjusted to the point that chlorine will be an effective
disinfectant.  Under these conditions about a drop of chlorine
bleach per 2 liter bottle will keep it safe for drinking.

If you obtain your water from an unknown source use iodine for
disinfection.  The best way to do this is to use PolarPure
(registered trademark) or the equivalent and follow the directions.

Alternatively you can just keep the water in *absolute* darkness.
All the nasties need a source of energy to grow, that source being
either already existing organic matter or light.  In the absence of
light once all organic matter is consumed the microbes will all die
of starvation.  However if any light reaches the water some of the
little critters will grow by photosynthesis and make food for others
so you can get a bioculture growing, possibly including some disease
causing organisms.

Boiling of course is a good disinfection technique, but it does
nothing to prevent future microbe growth except that it reduces
initial stocks.  If you can bring your water to boiling temperature
inside a sealed container and keep it sealed it should stay safe.
One way to do this is to use ordinary home canning techniques and
just "can" your water in Mason jars.  I don't think I would trust
soda bottles for this.


From hunter@kaiwan.com Sun Apr  2 22:26:13 EDT 1995
Article: 8874 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.caren.net!news.join.ad.jp!wnoc-tyo-news!wnoc-sfc-news!venus.sun.com!olivea!rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail
From: hunter@kaiwan.com (James Collins)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 28 Mar 1995 18:28:15 -0800
Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-4133,805-294-9338)
Lines: 31
Sender: hunter@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com
Message-ID: <gyBUlOF0SapD073yn@kaiwan.com>
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> <3l973o$cg9@macs.mxim.com> <1995Mar28.135250@titan.sfasu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

In article <1995Mar28.135250@titan.sfasu.edu>, f_griffith@titan.sfasu.edu wrote:
>In article <3l973o$cg9@macs.mxim.com>, hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>> In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU writes:
>>
>>>and what I should treat the water with to make it last longer.
>>
>> First, start with good pure water.  If it comes from a municipal
>> system in the US it will already have most junk removed and the pH
>> adjusted to the point that chlorine will be an effective
>> disinfectant.  Under these conditions about a drop of chlorine
>> bleach per 2 liter bottle will keep it safe for drinking.
>>
>
>I've seen this suggestion before and wonder why the need to add the
>chlorine.  Didn't the municipal sysytem already treat it with chlorine?

I think it just knocks down the nasties.  Doesn't kill them all.  When the
chlorine fades, guess who comes back? :)  You are supposed to rotate your
stored water after six months, but I imagine that as long as you put
chlorine in for storage, and some more before you use it, you wouldn't
have too many problems.  Its your life though... :)  After the big January
earthquake here, I had bottles of water that were a bit more than a year
old.  I purified them and drank them without any side effects (other than
an imagination that was insisting I was committing suicide... :) :) :) ).
I rotate them now, with the thought that, in an emergency, I really didn't
need more to worry about...  Oh, by the way, it *does* help to have a
filter that can at least take out the chlorine (like a Brita jug).  It
doesn't do anything about nasties in the water, but it sure makes the
water taste better.  Chlorine is nasty...

                                                James


From richard@mv.mv.com Sun Apr  2 22:27:28 EDT 1995
Article: 8930 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!mv!mv.mv.com!richard
From: richard@mv.mv.com (Richard Meyers)
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Message-ID: <D69AK8.56s@mv.mv.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: mv.mv.com
Sender: usenet@mv.mv.com (Usenet News)
Organization: MV Communications, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:52:54 GMT
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> <rickd.20.000EC23D@primenet.com>
Lines: 34

rickd@primenet.com (Rick De Castro) writes:

>In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) writes:
>>From: IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai)
>>Subject: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
>>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 21:53

>>I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
>>However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should
>>treat the water with to make it last longer.

>>Anybody with storage advice?

>>TC


>I just fill them and keep them under the sink - and rotate the water every six 
>months or so.  YMMV


Adding a teaspoon of 6% food grade hydrogen peroxide might also prove useful.  
It's available through The Family News (800) 284-6261.  They have a catalog/
newsletter most should find interesting.

Hydrogen peroxide is a very effective antibiotic, antifungal, and antiviral
agent.  I personally consider it _MUCH_ better than the various chlorine-based
chemicals currently being used in our water supply.  Bubbling ozone gas 
(assuming you have a machine to generate it) is also good.  It can be done 
just before sealing the bottle and/or just before drinking.

Many people with livestock find that adding hydrogen peroxide to their 
animals' water supply (50-100 ppm) give good results (helps keep animals
disease free).  In a survival situation, healthy livestock can be very
valuable.


From sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov Sun Apr  2 22:28:25 EDT 1995
Article: 8895 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!cs.utk.edu!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news
From: sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov (Keith W. Sheffield)
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
In-Reply-To: aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 06:44:49 GMT
Message-ID: <sheffznfyywxnjkxb@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov>
Lines: 36
Sender: news@rsg1.er.usgs.gov
Organization: EROS Data Center, USGS
X-Newsreader: (ding) Gnus v0.40
References: <D65u2o.3EB@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
	<19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
	<D66w2p.L5v@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:42:36 GMT

>>>>> "W" == W Joseph Cooklin <aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> writes:
In article <D66w2p.L5v@freenet.carleton.ca> aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (W. Joseph Cooklin) writes:


> In a previous posting, Paul Zaccari (lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz) writes:
>> In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>,
>> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU says...
>>>  I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
>>> However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should treat
>>> the water with to make it last longer.
>>> 
>>> Anybody with storage advice?
>>> 
>>> TC


> I try to keep on hand a 3 day supply of water (two 2 liter bottles per
> person per day, I also count my dog as a person), so for 5 people that would
> be 30 bottles. We always get more bottles, so we pitch the oldest every now
> and then. We also dump them all every 3 months and refill them.  The 3 month
> old water does not taste bad or even too flat, so I'm pretty sure its still
> ok.

> For larger capacity storage, you could use food grade plastic barrels and
> pipe them into your cold water line and from there to the hot water heater,
> that way you would create a reserve of continually freshened water (somebody
> else's idea, I can't take credit for it).

So one would just cut a couple holes in the top and cement some cpvc pipe to
the barrels and hook that into the existing lines?  Cool.  Another side effect
of this would be that if there was an existing heat source near the barrels,
the water heater wouldn't have to heat the water as much.

> -- Joseph Cooklin






-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
                
Keith W. Sheffield   Programmer, Software Development     Hughes STX Corporation
EROS Data Center     Mundt Federal Building               Sioux Falls, SD  57198
att: 605-594-6838    email:sheff@edcserver1.cr.usgs.gov   fax: 605-594-6589

Opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent official
policy of the NMD, USGS, DOI, or Federal Government.
________________________________________________________________________________
Geek Code v2.1
GCS d(--) H-- s:++ g+ p1+ au a- w-- v C++++ UI++$ P+ L+>+++ N++ E+>++ W--- V--
po+++ Y+ t+ 5 j R- G? tv++ b+ D+(++) B e++ u+ h---- f- r+++ n--- y++++ 


From sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov Sun Apr  2 22:29:13 EDT 1995
Article: 8895 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!cs.utk.edu!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news
From: sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov (Keith W. Sheffield)
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
In-Reply-To: aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Wed, 29 Mar 1995 06:44:49 GMT
Message-ID: <sheffznfyywxnjkxb@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov>
Lines: 36
Sender: news@rsg1.er.usgs.gov
Organization: EROS Data Center, USGS
X-Newsreader: (ding) Gnus v0.40
References: <D65u2o.3EB@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
	<19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
	<D66w2p.L5v@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 15:42:36 GMT

>>>>> "W" == W Joseph Cooklin <aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> writes:
In article <D66w2p.L5v@freenet.carleton.ca> aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (W. Joseph Cooklin) writes:


> In a previous posting, Paul Zaccari (lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz) writes:
>> In article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>,
>> IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU says...
>>>  I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
>>> However, I've wondered how stable the plastic is, and what I should treat
>>> the water with to make it last longer.
>>> 
>>> Anybody with storage advice?
>>> 
>>> TC


> I try to keep on hand a 3 day supply of water (two 2 liter bottles per
> person per day, I also count my dog as a person), so for 5 people that would
> be 30 bottles. We always get more bottles, so we pitch the oldest every now
> and then. We also dump them all every 3 months and refill them.  The 3 month
> old water does not taste bad or even too flat, so I'm pretty sure its still
> ok.

> For larger capacity storage, you could use food grade plastic barrels and
> pipe them into your cold water line and from there to the hot water heater,
> that way you would create a reserve of continually freshened water (somebody
> else's idea, I can't take credit for it).

So one would just cut a couple holes in the top and cement some cpvc pipe to
the barrels and hook that into the existing lines?  Cool.  Another side effect
of this would be that if there was an existing heat source near the barrels,
the water heater wouldn't have to heat the water as much.

> -- Joseph Cooklin






-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
                
Keith W. Sheffield   Programmer, Software Development     Hughes STX Corporation
EROS Data Center     Mundt Federal Building               Sioux Falls, SD  57198
att: 605-594-6838    email:sheff@edcserver1.cr.usgs.gov   fax: 605-594-6589

Opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent official
policy of the NMD, USGS, DOI, or Federal Government.
________________________________________________________________________________
Geek Code v2.1
GCS d(--) H-- s:++ g+ p1+ au a- w-- v C++++ UI++$ P+ L+>+++ N++ E+>++ W--- V--
po+++ Y+ t+ 5 j R- G? tv++ b+ D+(++) B e++ u+ h---- f- r+++ n--- y++++ 


From spk@subzero.winternet.com Sun Apr  2 22:29:49 EDT 1995
Article: 8964 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!winternet.com!news
From: spk@subzero.winternet.com (Shaun Kelly)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 30 Mar 1995 20:36:23 GMT
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 29
Sender: spk@winternet.com
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <3lf4o7$3bh@blackice.winternet.com>
References: <D65u2o.3EB@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com> <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> <D66w2p.L5v@freenet.carleton.ca> <ret1.796522905@ra.msstate.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: subzero.winternet.com
Summary: Sounds good but?
Keywords: Water storage

In article <ret1.796522905@ra.msstate.edu>,
Robert E. Tackett <ret1@Ra.MsState.Edu> wrote:
>aq195@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (W. Joseph Cooklin) writes:
>
>
>>For larger capacity storage, you could use food grade plastic barrels and
>>pipe them into your cold water line and from there to the hot water
>>heater, that way you would create a reserve of continually freshened water
>>(somebody else's idea, I can't take credit for it).
>
>Now, this seems like an excellent idea.  I wonder if the plastic barrels 
>you're talking about are strong enough to withstand inline water pressure?
>If they are, you can create a water storage tank(s) directly to/from your 
>water line.  You could have 50 or 100 or more gallons of water that are
>constantly being recycled.  


Of course, what happens if you discover, only too late, that there's a 
problem with the municipal water?  For example, supposing there was bacteria
in the city water, and it was discovered widespread through the system
only after a number of cases were diagnosed?  The continously freshened
water would have been freshened from the contaminated source...you'd have
water but you'd need to treat it/purify it yourself.

Not the biggest threat, and not the hardest to solve, given chemicals/
filters, but just a possible hitch?

-spk, spk@winternet.com, .sig TBA at a later date.



From lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz Sun Apr  2 22:30:51 EDT 1995
Article: 9039 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!allegra!ulysses!lziss3!netnews
From: lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz (Paul Zaccari)
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Message-ID: <D6BDqC.EDD@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
Sender: netnews@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com (51[news]-Netnews Admin)
Organization: GIS
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.9
References: <D66w2p.L5v@freenet.carleton.ca> <D69JtC.xK@corsair.daytonoh.attgis. <eyrUlOF0SSIS073yn@kaiwan.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:53:43 GMT
Lines: 59

In article <eyrUlOF0SSIS073yn@kaiwan.com>, hunter@kaiwan.com says...
>
>In article <D69JtC.xK@corsair.daytonoh.attgis.com>,
>Greg Davis <greg.davis@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:
>>In our area we used to have problems with muddy water about half a 
dozen times
>>a year.  Now that we tied into a different system the occurance is only 
about
>>one a year.  Somebody digs into a line or an old one breaks.  A couple 
times I
>>have been caught unaware, I can't believe this black goo coming out of 
faucets
>>is not newsworthy.  I have run a little water but don't notice anything 
till
>>after I have thrown in a load of wash and when the tub is half full it 
starts
>>to finally come through the pipes.
>>
>>Some types of disasters could cause similar problems.  At the least an
>>earthquake would stir up the sediment in all the pipes.  Won't 
connecting your
>>emergency supply directly into the water line lead to pollution just 
when you
>>need it most?
>
>It would if you were pumping at the time.  But if you had everything 
off,
>pollution shouldn't get in IMHO.  Still, I wouldn't put all my eggs in
>that bucket... :)  I'd have extra water stored away, with this thing
>being extra storage.  If it is ok, great, if not, no loss.  Also, just
>thought of something.  Even if it gets contaminated, you can still use 
it
>to flush the toilets, etc.  ie. use it as grey water...
>
>                                                        James

 Or have the means to build water treatment equipment. And a few 
Kaytadyne or Sweetwater filter couldn't hurt. 





--------------------------------------------------------------------
|Paul Zaccari  |  "You can't get good chinese takeout in China and |
|              |  cuban cigars are rationed in Cuba. That's all    |  
|Speak softly  |  you need to know about communism."               |
|and carry.    |                                   -P.J. ORourke   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"If I did a tenth of the things that the Kennedys do the Law would|
|be all over me like ugly on Janet Reno."                          |
|                                           -Me                    |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| All views and opinions are my own. (Nothing my company says is   |
| worth repeating).                                                |
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From Ben Farmer Sun Apr  2 22:31:30 EDT 1995
Article: 8900 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.sccsi.com!nuchat!usenet
From: Ben Farmer
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 29 Mar 1995 07:14:32 GMT
Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3lb1co$fcq@tattoo.sccsi.com>
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tty17.com1.oknet.com
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>   IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) writes:
>  I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.


IMHO this is a good idea for -part- of a water reserve program.
The plastic pop bottles are designed to be durable and to
not let anything leech through the plastic to destroy the 
taste. Four drops of pure chlorine bleech will keep the water
for at least five years if kept in a cool dark location.
In the average conditions it will take two bottles per person
per day.

A good book with this and much more info on the subject
of surviving hard times is---

	"Preparing for Emergencies" 
	by James McKeever
	Omega Publications
	P.O. Box 4130
	Medford, Oregon 97501



From Ben Farmer Sun Apr  2 22:32:42 EDT 1995
Article: 8900 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.uh.edu!news.sccsi.com!nuchat!usenet
From: Ben Farmer
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: 29 Mar 1995 07:14:32 GMT
Organization: South Coast Computer Services (sccsi.com)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3lb1co$fcq@tattoo.sccsi.com>
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tty17.com1.oknet.com
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>   IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) writes:
>  I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.


IMHO this is a good idea for -part- of a water reserve program.
The plastic pop bottles are designed to be durable and to
not let anything leech through the plastic to destroy the 
taste. Four drops of pure chlorine bleech will keep the water
for at least five years if kept in a cool dark location.
In the average conditions it will take two bottles per person
per day.

A good book with this and much more info on the subject
of surviving hard times is---

	"Preparing for Emergencies" 
	by James McKeever
	Omega Publications
	P.O. Box 4130
	Medford, Oregon 97501



From jtz@roadrunner.com Sun Apr  2 22:34:33 EDT 1995
Article: 8960 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!fnnews.fnal.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!192!jtz
From: jtz@roadrunner.com (John T. Zoltai)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 05:43:20 GMT
Organization: Zoltai Consulting
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <jtz.1146929840B@192.12.12.62>
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial131.roadrunner.com
X-Newsreader: VersaTerm Link v1.1

In Article <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>,
IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (TC Lai) wrote:
>I hit upon the idea of using 2-liter soda bottles for water storage.
...

>Anybody with storage advice?


I've tried that route. It's a genuine pain in the tuckus. You wind up
carting a zillion bottles back and forth. There's a better way: You can get
large polyethylene barrels that are DOT spec for foods (including water),
with liquid tight seals. Light tight, too. A supplier by the name of
National Bag (800-247-6000) carries them, among others. Look for "open head
drum" in sizes from 8 gal to 55 gal, last catalog priced the 55 gal drum at
$76.40.

The trick is keeping the water fresh. Hooking the drum(s) up to your water
supply, like at the hot water tank, is one approach, but that implies
building a system designed to be constantly pressurized. A simpler approach
is to use the drum for gardening water, or hydroponics water, whatever. This
forces you to keep adding new water to the supply, thereby keeping it fresh.
Depends on how much work you're willing to go through to set up the water
storage system in the first place.

Of course, if you're storing water in a bunker or other bug-out location,
then you may want to add iodine as mentioned in this forum for long term
storage. The drums are light tight, though, so there won't be much growth
going on inside. Don't try to store a year's worth of water; make sure you
have a stable source of water available, then have a good set of water
filters on hand, enough to filter one to five years worth of water.



- John T. Zoltai - Consulting in business information systems.

  "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one
   time or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had
   been involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and
   _could_have_, according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold."
                       -- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago.


From sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov Sun Apr  2 22:36:13 EDT 1995
Article: 8934 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!emory!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!news
From: sheff@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov (Keith W. Sheffield)
Subject: Re: Water Storage - Liter bottles?
In-Reply-To: jtz@roadrunner.com's message of Thu, 30 Mar 95 05:43:20 GMT
Message-ID: <sheffznfxydsdg9qp@edcsgw2.cr.usgs.gov>
Lines: 24
Sender: news@rsg1.er.usgs.gov
Organization: EROS Data Center, USGS
X-Newsreader: (ding) Gnus v0.40
References: <19950327215323IZZYS9L@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
	<jtz.1146929840B@192.12.12.62>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 15:01:56 GMT

>>>>> "John" == John T Zoltai <jtz@roadrunner.com> writes:
In article <jtz.1146929840B@192.12.12.62> jtz@roadrunner.com (John T. Zoltai) writes:




> I've tried that route. It's a genuine pain in the tuckus. You wind up
> carting a zillion bottles back and forth. There's a better way: You can get
> large polyethylene barrels that are DOT spec for foods (including water),
> with liquid tight seals. Light tight, too. A supplier by the name of
> National Bag (800-247-6000) carries them, among others. Look for "open head
> drum" in sizes from 8 gal to 55 gal, last catalog priced the 55 gal drum at
> $76.40.

Emergency Essentials in Utah (800-999-1863) has food grade 25-55 gal drums.
The 55 gal drum is about $56.  They carry lots of other stuff too.  Ranging
from 72-hr kits, camping supplies, books, water filters, dehydrated food,
MREs, etc.


> - John T. Zoltai - Consulting in business information systems.

>   "Who was arrested in the 'gold' wave [of 1929]? All those who, at one time
> or another, fifteen years before, had a private 'business,' had been
> involved in retail trade, had earned wages at a craft, and _could_have_,
> according to the GPU's deductions, hoarded gold."  -- Aleksandr
> Solzhenitsyn: The Gulag Archipelago.

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
                
Keith W. Sheffield   Programmer, Software Development     Hughes STX Corporation
EROS Data Center     Mundt Federal Building               Sioux Falls, SD  57198
att: 605-594-6838    email:sheff@edcserver1.cr.usgs.gov   fax: 605-594-6589

Opinions expressed are the author's and do not necessarily represent official
policy of the NMD, USGS, DOI, or Federal Government.
________________________________________________________________________________
Geek Code v2.1
GCS d(--) H-- s:++ g+ p1+ au a- w-- v C++++ UI++$ P+ L+>+++ N++ E+>++ W--- V--
po+++ Y+ t+ 5 j R- G? tv++ b+ D+(++) B e++ u+ h---- f- r+++ n--- y++++ 


From Steve4@ix.netcom.com Thu Apr  6 23:20:57 EDT 1995
Article: 9058 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maui.cc.odu.edu!xanth.cs.odu.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: Steve4@ix.netcom.com (Steve4)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Need Source for Army Manuals
Date: 1 Apr 1995 06:02:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3liq9o$87t@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3lalvv$kq5@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-la10-26.ix.netcom.com

In <3lalvv$kq5@agate.berkeley.edu> ho@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho) 
writes: 

>
>Is is possible to buy US Army manuals from the Govt directly?
>If Y, does anyone have a contact phone number?  
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Kinson Ho
>

Of course.  Look in the white pages (U.S. Government Section) of your 
local phone directory for the nearest U.S. Government Printing Office.  
They take credit cards and do mail order if you are too far to go to one 
directly.

Also, contact a mail order company called Shomer-Tec (206) 733-6214.  
They have one of the largest military manual libraries to choose from.

Steve


From pferraro@bud.peinet.pe.ca Thu Apr  6 23:21:20 EDT 1995
Article: 9169 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!news.unb.ca!peinet.pe.ca!peinet.pe.ca!not-for-mail
From: pferraro@bud.peinet.pe.ca (Inst. for Bioreg. Studies)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: bioregional studies
Date: 1 Apr 1995 23:13:10 -0400
Organization: PEINet, Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada
Lines: 44
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ll4o6$4nj@bud.peinet.pe.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bud.peinet.pe.ca

  It is the objective of IBS to train participants to become 
effective catalysts in the regeneration of  the planet. The 
"Bioregional" perspective means that our focus is  on the 
design and evolution of healthy, interdependent and self-reliant 
communities. 
  Today we can not just, "Think  Globally and  Act Locally" We 
also need to, "Think Long Term and Act Now". Therefore, IBS was 
founded to demonstrate the recent, ecologically oriented, scientific,   
social   and   technological   achievements   that   are relevant  
to  achieving  the   goal   of   an   ecological  society.

The Institute for Bioregional Studies 1995 Summer Programs 
catalogue is now available on-line or by requesting a hard copy.
Our programs will be hosted at the spectacular Ovens Natural Park 
in Riverport, Nova Scotia. Seminars will feature:

~Permaculture Design Course~
~Straw Bale Construction~
~Ecological Planning~

Guest Lecturers include:
Kirkpatrick Sale, Schumacher Society;
Michael Pilarski, Friends of the Trees;
Judith Plant, New Catalyst Education Society;
Maureen Cureton, Rocky Mountain. Institute;
Ray Cote, Director, School of Environmental Planning,Dal. U;
William Rees, Dean, School of Community Planning, UBC;
Carla Conrod, Regional Atlantic Trading Note Association

and others

For more information send $2.00 to:
IBS, 449 University Avenue, Suite 126,
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island C1A 8K3
Phone: (902) 892-9578
or
for an electronic copy e-mail: pferraro@peinet.pe.ca
-- 
Phil Ferraro, Director
Institute for Bioregional Studies
449 University Avenue Suite 126            "Developing Local Solutions to 
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island	    Global Problems"
Canada   C1A 8K3
(902) 892-9578


From winter@dancer.eng.buffalo.edu Thu Apr  6 23:24:27 EDT 1995
Article: 9074 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!news.pop.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!localnet.com!ppp11.localnet.com!user
From: winter@dancer.eng.buffalo.edu (Dan Winter)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: self-sufficient farm
Followup-To: misc.survivalism
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 1995 21:23:27 -0500
Organization: Crystal Hill MultiMedia
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <winter-020495212327@ppp11.localnet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp11.localnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

self-sufficient farm, 15 acre,w gas well,
free gas, free heat, generator on gas well
free electric, wells, pond, insulated greenhouse
spa, fireplace, walk in cooler, metal lined
grain storage room, kitchen has
electric,gas, wood, & coal stoves..
8 bedrooms, view of lake erie,
organic gardens, fruit trees,
barn, heated workshop, dance hall
in cathedral loft.. surround porches,
much more.. $240,000  
716 992 9307, winter@dancer.eng.buffalo.edu


From vaq@ornl.gov Thu Apr  6 23:27:26 EDT 1995
Article: 9081 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!ukma!rsg1.er.usgs.gov!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!vaq.win.ornl.gov!vaq
From: vaq@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Water Storage Drum Liners --(I Lied)--
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:33:29 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <vaq.90.2F7FEB18@ornl.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vaq.win.ornl.gov
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

The source I gave last post was wrong.  The catalog I should have referenced 
is the US Plastics Corp @ 800.537.9724.  They have liners for 5-gal, 30-gal 
and 55-gal (two types) drums.

I don't know the other company.  It was just a # I had in the files.

Logan VanLeigh


From gradecki@cs.uwyo.edu Thu Apr  6 23:27:44 EDT 1995
Article: 9053 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!rochester!cornellcs!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!roper.uwyo.edu!csa12.uwyo.edu!gradecki
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Vacuum Sealer Sources
Message-ID: <gradecki.9.000F002E@cs.uwyo.edu>
From: gradecki@cs.uwyo.edu (Joe Gradecki)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:59:56
Distribution: world
Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.72.6.194
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Lines: 14

Hello:

  Does anyone have any sources for commercial vacuum sealers?  I spoke with 
Koch in Kansas City and why want $4500.00...

  I have the model from Damark...my opinion is don't even think about 
purchasing this one...

  I am aware of a model or manufacturer called MULTIVAC but cannot seem to 
locate them.  

  Any responses are welcomed.

Joe


From souris@blkbox.COM Thu Apr  6 23:28:28 EDT 1995
Article: 9148 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.uh.edu!uuneo.neosoft.com!blkbox.COM!not-for-mail
From: souris@blkbox.COM (Henry Hillbrath)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Old Canned Food
Date: 4 Apr 1995 18:38:54 -0500
Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3lslae$m6h@blkbox.blkbox.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blkbox.com
Summary: Question on the shelf life of canned food.
Keywords: Food, Shelf Life
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV)

Hi!

I am interested in the shelf life of preserved food, particularly food 
that can be stored at room temperature, and specifically canned food.

I have already done some research on this, and, my usual bull dog style, 
I will "run it to ground."

I know that the FDA only allows claims of a few years for shelf life, but 
I am not interested in "best quality" but emergency conditions. I am also 
not interested in improperly canned food, botulinum, etc. but "best SOA."

I am also not concerned about the fine points of "nutritional value," 
only with "prompt effects," (i. e. starvation).

I would particularly like documentation of any canned food of "great" 
age, which was eaten without ill effects. 

Also, any other food, of any kind.

I have two examples (don't have cites handy), on canned food of 
approximately 130 years of age, one which was eaten, and was 
satisfactory, and one that "looked good," but wasn't eaten. 
Unfortunately, for my particular interest, the first was the rations of 
an  arctic expedition, and was therefore frozen for the whole storage 
time. 

Henry Hillbrath




From Steve4@ix.netcom.com Thu Apr  6 23:33:31 EDT 1995
Article: 9119 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: Steve4@ix.netcom.com (Steve4)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Old Canned Food
Date: 5 Apr 1995 20:33:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 59
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3luurc$dr0@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3lslae$m6h@blkbox.blkbox.COM> <3lsr9u$32g@gondor.sdsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-la17-05.ix.netcom.com

In <3lsr9u$32g@gondor.sdsu.edu> bfunk@mail.sdsu.edu (Brian Funk) writes: 

>
>Henry Hillbrath (souris@blkbox.COM) wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I am interested in the shelf life of preserved food, particularly food 
>that can be stored at room temperature, and specifically canned food.
>
>
Henry Hillbrath
>


The following is excerpted from the book "The Art and Science of 
Dumpster Diving" by John Hoffmen, published by Loompanics Unlimited 
copyright 1993 by John Hoffman.

I've read the book cover to cover and highly reccommend it, not only for 
its humor value but for its practical value as well.  Here is what John 
says about canned goods:

"Because of the durable nature of canned and dry goods, these items are 
not disgarded as frequently as produce, dairy, or frozen foods."

"...I become more excited about canned foods because these items can be 
stored for a long, long time."

"Often you'll find cans that are dented or bloated into interesting 
shapes.  This may be the most shocking claim in this book, and I know 
many of you will shake your head in disbelief, but here it is:  MOST OF 
THE TIME THE FOOD IN THESE CANS IS O.K."

"Most of the time I'll open a "bloated" can and find grapes, pineapple, 
fruit cocktail or some other fruit juice.  Tasting the juice after 
carefully smelling the contents, I find it has a alight "kick" due to 
fermentation.  I was told ny a cannery supervisor that "low canning heat 
can cause on'shelf fermentation."  Thus the football shape."

Jonh goes on to describe eating tuna out of a dented can and fruit 
cocktail ot if a bloated can.  

CAUTION!!! - DO NOT EAT MEAT PRODUCTS OUT OF BLOATED CANS!!!

Dented cans are O.K. to eat.  Let your nose be the judge.

He also goes on to describe the variow bacteria that can form in 
inproperly canned food and the effect it would have on the human body.

He also alluded to at least nine months of shelf time before some canned 
food was ingested.

Get the book, you'll enjoy it.

Steve

--
Steve Fischer       ][Federal Regulations prohibit a kite within 500
Steve4@ix.netcom.com][feet of a cloud.


From Steve4@ix.netcom.com Thu Apr  6 23:34:24 EDT 1995
Article: 9119 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: Steve4@ix.netcom.com (Steve4)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Old Canned Food
Date: 5 Apr 1995 20:33:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 59
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3luurc$dr0@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3lslae$m6h@blkbox.blkbox.COM> <3lsr9u$32g@gondor.sdsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-la17-05.ix.netcom.com

In <3lsr9u$32g@gondor.sdsu.edu> bfunk@mail.sdsu.edu (Brian Funk) writes: 

>
>Henry Hillbrath (souris@blkbox.COM) wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I am interested in the shelf life of preserved food, particularly food 
>that can be stored at room temperature, and specifically canned food.
>
>
Henry Hillbrath
>


The following is excerpted from the book "The Art and Science of 
Dumpster Diving" by John Hoffmen, published by Loompanics Unlimited 
copyright 1993 by John Hoffman.

I've read the book cover to cover and highly reccommend it, not only for 
its humor value but for its practical value as well.  Here is what John 
says about canned goods:

"Because of the durable nature of canned and dry goods, these items are 
not disgarded as frequently as produce, dairy, or frozen foods."

"...I become more excited about canned foods because these items can be 
stored for a long, long time."

"Often you'll find cans that are dented or bloated into interesting 
shapes.  This may be the most shocking claim in this book, and I know 
many of you will shake your head in disbelief, but here it is:  MOST OF 
THE TIME THE FOOD IN THESE CANS IS O.K."

"Most of the time I'll open a "bloated" can and find grapes, pineapple, 
fruit cocktail or some other fruit juice.  Tasting the juice after 
carefully smelling the contents, I find it has a alight "kick" due to 
fermentation.  I was told ny a cannery supervisor that "low canning heat 
can cause on'shelf fermentation."  Thus the football shape."

Jonh goes on to describe eating tuna out of a dented can and fruit 
cocktail ot if a bloated can.  

CAUTION!!! - DO NOT EAT MEAT PRODUCTS OUT OF BLOATED CANS!!!

Dented cans are O.K. to eat.  Let your nose be the judge.

He also goes on to describe the variow bacteria that can form in 
inproperly canned food and the effect it would have on the human body.

He also alluded to at least nine months of shelf time before some canned 
food was ingested.

Get the book, you'll enjoy it.

Steve

--
Steve Fischer       ][Federal Regulations prohibit a kite within 500
Steve4@ix.netcom.com][feet of a cloud.


From tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca Sun Apr  9 23:59:30 EDT 1995
Article: 9224 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newsflash.concordia.ca!pavo.concordia.ca!tj_moll
From: tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca (Fnord)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: FAQ: misc.survivalism
Date: 8 Apr 1995 17:28 -0500
Organization: Bavarian Illuminati
Lines: 110
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <8APR199517280067@pavo.concordia.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pavo4.concordia.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Welcome to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for misc.survivalism!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  Modified last on April 8, 1994
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More than just a list of questions and answers, FAQ's are short introductions
to the community that subscribe to the newsgroup. In misc.survivalism,
we discuss survival theory. If there was one line we could lift out of
our charter to sum up the group it would be, "The prevailing philosophy
of misc.survivalism is that I and the ones I love want to remain alive
no matter what." As misc. survivalism is a new group, the FAQ will be
posted frequently untill we have made arrangements for this to be available
either through FTB or WWW.

Q) What can we talk about on misc.survivalism?

A) Anything to do with survival theory, including emergency prepardness.
Need plans for a shelter? Ask. Fly an aircraft and want to know what to
what to pack "just in case"? Ask. Hate firearms and want to spout off?
_Don't_ ask - see next question. Love firearms and want to talk about
them? _Don't_. See next question.

Q) What _don't_ you talk about in misc.survivalism?

A) There are two main categories of posting _not_ appreciated on m.s.
There is no moderator on this group - we like it that way. Post things
in these two categories and you will get lots of hate mail...

 1) Personal objections to theory which do not include survivalist/
emergency prepardness material. For example, if one person describes
his technique for food hoarding - and you think it immoral - write to
him or her in email. Don't put it on the group. Same thing about
firearms, we're not pro- or anti-gun as a group. Individual members
who wish to talk about that topic can go to talk.politics.guns, those
wishing to discuss firearms in general can go to rec.guns.
    If someone posts something about survivalist therory which you
believe is _technically_ wrong (like description of an edible plant
for example) then go ahead and discuss that.

 2) Postings which have nothing to do with our group. Someone who wants
to know what to do with his collection of 15 illegal automatics belongs
on rec.guns. Contrary to some misinformed users, we did _not_ split
from rec.guns and do _not_ want to duplicate their group. Please keep
generic firearm discussions on the appropriate group - not here.
	Also don't spam us with ads for skin cream, lottery tickets, 
x-rated videos etc... Keep on topic, flames belong in alt.flame or 
through email.

Q) How is this group controled?

A) As said before, misc. survivalism is not moderated. We operate on
common sense. If you see someone posting up non-survivalist material,
we encourage you to send them a followup by email asking them to keep
on target. No one wants a newsgroup with 150+ messages a day with
only 25 posts of any substance...

Q) Someone posted up a vicious/racist/commercial announcement/spam
posting. I should follow up and post what an idiot they are, right?

A) No! Send them a note through email that their comments are not
acceptable. Believe it or not, there are people who receive their
pleasure from the net by starting flame wars and degenerating 
discussions in groups. Ignore them and they'll go away.

Q) Who's reading this group?

A) There were over 400 people who voted for this group's creation. When
I was starting this up, I met many of them through email. They come from
as far away as Germany and Australia and from all walks of life. They are
weekend campers, Boy Scout leaders, officers and enlisted men from armies
all around the globe, or just people concerned with their safety. Something
that surprised me (that really shouldn't have) is the number of women
who mailed me during the groups proposal.

Q) Anyone _else_ reading this group?

A) By the very nature of survivalist theory, some people raise their
eyebrows in suspicion. Therefore keep in mind that this is a public
newsgroup and _anyone_ who has net access can read this group. This
includes government agencies, so while it's not (at least on this group)
prohibited to discuss techniques or actions which stray outside legal
frameworks - it might be prudent to think carefully before putting
your name on such a post. Using an anonymous server (one not based
in your country) would be a helpful option.

Q) I have a question not covered by this FAQ.

A) I'm sure there are lots. This FAQ is still in its infancy. So for
now, follow the above rules and you'll be fine. Questions I see
repeated often will be added here.

Q) Who are you?

A) I am the proposer of misc.survivalism. For now I also do the FAQ, this
might change if someone else wants the job... You can contact me by email
at <tj_moll@pavo.concordia.ca>.

Q) Where can I look for more information?

A) I used to have a list of books here, but a really good list is being
maintained by another user. Search the subject lines for "BOOK LIST",
it seems to be posted fairly regularly.


-----
Thomas Moll aka -Fnord   |    "When the need arises - and it does -
Concordia University     |     you must be able to shoot your own dog.
Department of Journalism |     Don't farm it out - that doesn't make it
Montreal, Quebec, Canada |     nicer, it makes it worse."

(WWW home page) http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/hpp/fnord.html


From snexco@delphi.com Tue Apr 11 21:44:07 EDT 1995
Article: 9229 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: snexco@delphi.com
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Food Storage Planning
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 95 19:00:53 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <RU29Qy9.snexco@delphi.com>
References: <3m1okp$oh2@news.xmission.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1g.delphi.com
X-To: sonntag <sonntag@xmission.xmission.com>

I made this offer before:  I'd be happy to send a copy of the suggestions
for a 1 year supply of food as given by the LDS church (the Mormons)
for free.  Just send me an address.
I also would be happy to send out copies of "Home production and storage"
from the LDS church for $1.00 per copy (incl postage) and copies
of any other LDS publications for whatever they cost me to pick them
up at the Distribution Center.
Also, there is an outfit in Tremonton, Utah that sells Food-storage tyupe
foods for low prices.  It's called Jensens and the number is
1 800 205 7323.  Very friendly and helpful.  They have a cook
book on using the food storage items that is the most practical
approach I've ever seen.  The woman who wrote it (Mrs Jensen)
has 10 or 12 children and uses the food storage stuff in her
daily meals.  eg wheat, beans, etc.  These are recipes you can
use in every day cooking.  (Rick, would you please add this to the
books list?)
I don't know what shipping charges would be, but here are some sample
prices (I don't have any financial interest in Jensens.  They're just
nice people)
Red winter wheat 45 lbs  $10.00
Beef TVP 23 lbs  $28.00
Oatmeal, quick  23 lbs $12.25
There's tons of stuff more.  Call them for a price list.  Their stuff is
very high quality.
Hope this helps.
Stephen
-For a free catalog of gear e-mail an address to snexco@delphi.com-


From decastro@netcom.com Tue Apr 11 21:45:01 EDT 1995
Article: 9276 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Books.list rev 0.18
Message-ID: <decastroD6n3pE.2Ir@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:51:14 GMT
Lines: 1389
Sender: decastro@netcom13.netcom.com

                        Survival Books, rev 0.18

Disclaimer:  Most reviews are written by the people who submit them to
me.  I only edit for style, punctuation and spelling (eventually).  I
really wouldn't like to get any flames if you disagree with the contents
of a review, if you don't like it, write another one and I'll include it
also.

General.  Books are listed (at a minimum)  by Title and Author, which
should be sufficient to find them in a library or bookstore.  I never
liked doing bibliographical information in my writing in school, and I'm
not going to do it here.  You're welcome to add your own information, if
you feel it's needed.

Also, many of the books listed are old.  Many date back to the heydays
of the survivalist movement in the seventies, some (especially the works
of Bradford Angier) are even older.  And of course, many very old books,
those from the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries, would have many good
ideas.  So, some of these books are not in print, your library might
have them, or should be able to get them via an interlibrary loan. Also,
check used book stores, garage sales, swapmeets and the like, you never
know what you might find.

Changes in rev 0.18:  Added additional books.


                        LOOKING FOR INFORMATION

Is there any worthwhile software that should be indexed?  If so, let's
discuss it in misc.survivalism, and I'll post it.

Anything that would fit into an existing catagory, or is similar to an
existing book.

Books about natural and/or homeopathic medicine

Shooting, Reloading, Making improvised weapons

Mail Order sources of books or catlogs

Alternative energy  including especially solar, micro-hydro and
geothermal energy sources.

Communications

Alternative Homebuilding

Alternative power systems

Sources of Training

????  --  If you know of a book to include here, please email me with
it's name and author, and a brief (1 or 2 sentence) description of it.
I'll compile and post them.  Send to decastro@netcom.com

Please do NOT send me anything in MIME format, if you can possibly avoid
it.  Also, please don't send me anything that's copyrighted.  If you are
the legitimate copyright holder, and are willing to place the
information in the public domain by posting it to a public newsgroup
with a suitable release, I'll be glad to incorporate it into this list -
otherwise, it's not public domain, and I won't.






                Non-Fiction Informational, Instructional
                         or Inspirational Books

_COOKING, WILD FOODS AND FOOD PRESERVATION_

Back to Basics Copyright 1981 The Reader's Digest Association, Inc. ISBN
0-89577-086-5.  Information on food storage and cooking.

The African Housewife And Her Home, by Esther Ko-eune. A book about
setting up and running a basic homestead, simply written to help people
who want to transition from semi-nomadic tribal life to settled
agriculture. Wonderfully to-the-point about compound layout, sanitation
and health, cooking and nutrition, clothesmaking and sickroom care.
[Eagle Press, 1952, printed at Nairobi]

"The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Charlie Papazian. ISBN
0-380-76366-4 "The Complete Handbook of Brewing" by Dave Miller.
Both books cover all of the bases. The Miller book is considered the
more "hardcore" of the two in terms of brewing from scratch, while the
Papazian book (actually he has a companion book out now, the name of
which currently escapes me) is more entertaining and is equally useful
to homebrewers of all experience levels.

Cooking with Home Storage, by Vicki Tate, is much more modern but
requires many more items to be stocked.  It has lots of simple recipes
and even home remedies.  It is available from Vicki Tate at:
1-801-835-8283.  Her audio tape on this topic is quite motivational.

Diet for a Small Planet, by Frances Moore Lappe, a million sold by 1975,
and still selling well. ISBN 0-345-27429-6.  THE classic. Half text
which explains the efficiency of grain consumption instead of animal
consumption. This approach could end world hunger.  Includes a good set
of recipes and guidance in balancing needed amino acids when avoiding
meat. In tuff times, we may all need this kind of efficiency.  Related
books are: Recipes for a Small Planet, by Ellen Buchman Ewald, 1973.
Food First, Beyond the Myth of Scarcity, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc.
1977. World Hunger, Twelve Myths, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc. 1986.

More-with-Less Cookbook, by Doris Janzen Longacre, suggestions by
Mennonites on how to eat better and consume less of the world's limited
food resources.  1976  Simple recipes. Lots of info on substitutions for
ingredients you don't have.  Breads, cereals, meat, soup, veggies,
complementary protein, allowances for energy and protein, garden, costs.
The recipes I have tried worked very well, including substitutions.

The Sprouter's Cookbook, for Fast Kitchen Crops, by Marjorie Page
Blanchard. 1975, Garden Way, ISBN: 0-88266-041-1  How to grow sprouts
with lots of recipes.  This is the way to get fresh veggies from long
term storage.

The Book of Whole Grains, by Marlene Anne Bumgarner, The Grain-by-Grain
Guide to Cooking, Growing, and Grinding Whole Cereals, Nuts, Peas, and
Beans. Here is where I found my favorite cookies.  I've had good luck
with the crackers and cereals.  Compares essential Amino Acid Contents
of all the grains, beans, nuts, and peas in chart form.  Discusses
grinders. 1976. ISBN:  0-312-09420-7.

The Grains Cookbook, by Bert Greene, 1988, ISBN: 0-89480-612-2 Many
recipies from around the world.  Great variety.

Wheat for Man, Why and How, with Recipes Developed Expressly for the Use
of Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour, by Vernice G. Rosenvall, etc. 1952 to
1982. ISBN: 0-88494-282-1.  If you store wheat, here is what to do with
it.

Make a Treat with Wheat, Recipes using Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour,
Cracked Wheat, and Whole Wheat, by Hazel Richards, 1968. Cereal,
including babies cereal, breads, rolls cakes, cookies, casseroles. This
can make storage food more fun.

The Taming of the CANDY* Monster, *=Continuously Advertised
Nutritionally Deficient Yummies, By Vicki Lansky, 1978.  How to replace
'junk foods'

Dutch Oven Secrets. Hopkins, Lynn.  Bountiful, Utah : Horizon
Publishers, c1990.  ISBN 0-88290-372-1.  This book has detailed
instructions on how to use your oven, and plenty of good recipes.  There
are also sections on cooking for large groups, and the use of a dutch
oven in a home food-storage program.

Edible Wild Plants, by Oliver Perry Medsger Covers all of North America,
describing over 150 of the most promising species and their habitats.
This is an old-style plant book; you will need a dictionary to decode
the botanical jargon. There are ample pen-and-ink illustrations and a
few photos. A charming feature is that the author includes a bit of the
lore and romance of the plants he describes, "...when [John] Franklin
was reduced to starvation in the Arctic regions, Rock Tripe was said to
have saved his life. It is often eaten by Canadian hunters and Indians
when food is scarce."

Essentials of Home Production and Storage, 1978, by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints.  A short (28-page) pamphlet that outlines a
method for determining what foods to store, and how to store them.
Interesting and basic information, it also contains an extensive
bibilography of related books.  It should be available from a local LDS
Church or Stake center, or book distributor.  Ask an LDS member.

The Herb Book by Lust, John B. (1974) ISBN 0-87904-007-6 Extensive
compilation of hundreds of herbs, with line drawings, descriptions,
growth ranges, parts used and uses.  Techniques of herbal medicine,
appendices of cross references of common to Latin botanical names,
extensive index.  Just about "the" book on herbology, after Culpepper's.

Kitchen Magic (How to use your food storage grains everyday) by Deanna
Smith Sudweeks, and Suzanna Smith Welton, published by Hawkes Publishing
inc, 3775 S. 500 West (PO box 15711) SLC, Utah, 84115

Old-Fashioned Dutch Oven Cookbook. Holm, Don.    Caldwell, Ohio :
Caxton, 1989, c1969.  ISBN 87004-133-9.  Also covers basic dutch oven
care and use, and lots of dutch oven recipes.  Emphasises wild game
(dutch ovens can turn an old boot into a tender, tasty meal!)  Includes
information on gutting, skining, and boning game, sourdough cooking, and
drying and/or smoking meat.  Also has a chapter on the eating habits of
the Lewis and Clark expedition (and man, did they ever eat!)

Old Fashioned Recipe Book, by Carla Emery.  A discussion of life under
less "civilized" conditions, including making butter and butchering
animals.

Passport to Survival, by Esther Dickey, Four Foods and More to Use and
Store, is the classic book of very basic food storage and use.  It
focuses on wheat, salt, honey, and powdered milk.  It has many recipes
with just these four and water.  Also includes storage, fun foods, and
outdoor cooking with these basic ingredients.

Peterson's Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants

Putting Food By Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan, Janet Greene.  How to
preserve foods, including salting and pickling.

Stocking Up, the book published by the Rodale Institute, also has some
info, perhaps even information on curing w/o nitrates.

Uprisings, the Whole Grain Bakers Book, by the Cooperative Whole Grain
Educational Association, 1990.  ISBN 0-913990-70-1.  Recipes for
whole-grain cooking.



_CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES_

Adobe Build it Yourself, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1985, Univ of Arizona
Press, 0-8165-0984-4

Adobe and Rammed Earth Buildings, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1984, Univ of
Arizona Press, 0-8165-1124-1

Alex Wade's Guide to Affordable Houses, Alex Wade 1984, Rodale Press,
0-87857-511-1

Alternative House Building, Mike McClintock 1984, Popular Science Books,
0-943822-39-4

A Place of Your Own Making, Stephen Taylor 1988, Henry Holt,
0-8050-0364-9

Build a Yurt: The Low-Cost Mongolian Round House by Len Charney, 1974,
Collier Books (a division of Macmillan Publishing), 0-02-079320-0.

Building Underground, Herb Wade 1983, Rodale Press, 0-87857-421-2

Cordwood Masonry Houses, Robert L. Roy

New Compact House Designs published in 1991 by Storey Communications,
Inc. They were by a design firm called Rammed Earth Works, P.O. Box
5006, Napa, CA 94581.

Dwelling on Earth.  A Manual for the Professional Application of
Earthbuilding Techniques", David Easton.  The book has about 200 pages,
has no copyright date, no publisher, no location.  We purchased it from
the Real Goods catalog. Very good instruction manual for DIY building.

Earthbuilders' Encylopedia (current price S$20.50) and Adobe Codes,
(US$7.95) covers the codes concerning building adobes in Arizona, New
Mexico, Texas, and some California details.  With the exception of
details, most codes were modeled after the New Mexico codes which have
also been accepted as U.B.C.  Available from: Southwest Solaradobe
School P.O. Box 153 Bosque, New Mexico 87006

Timber Reduced Energy Efficient Homes (aka TREE homes) at US$17.95, by
Ed Paschich and Paula Hendricks, @1994.  Published by:  Sunstone Press,
P.O. Box 2321, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2321.  This book has some
execellent sections on total environmental impact of the materials
selected and used for building either an adobe or an equivlant frame
home.

DESIGN OF STRUCTURES TO RESIST NUCLEAR WEAPONS EFFECTS; American Society
of Civil Engineers; ASCE Manuals and Reports on Engineering Practice No.
42; c1985; ACSE 345 East 47th St., NY, NY  10017-2398

Earth Sheltered Habitat, Gideon S. Golany 1983, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-22993-3

Earth Sheltered Housing, Max Riterman  1985, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-28287-7

Earthships, Vols. I, II, III, Michael Reynolds  Solar Survival Press

The Electricians Toolbox Manual, by Rex Miller, 1989, published by
ARCOS/Simon and Schuster, distributed by Prentice Hall,  ISBN
0-13-247701-7.  A small sized book full of good information on
electrical wiring, the National Electrical Code, and related issues.
Seems especially good for do-it-yourselfers who are unsure about the
specifics of wiring.  Section on tools, NEC, etc.

The $50 and Up Underground House Book, 4th edition by Mike Oehler,
Illustrations by Chris Royer, Mole Publishing Company/Van Nostrand
Reinhold Company, New York, 1981, ISBN: 0-442-27311-8, 116pp. How to
build an underground house using a shovel, polyethylene, and a chainsaw
with a milling attatchment.  Reasons for going underground. Different
approach to design:  face uphill, use lots of windows for light.

The Good House: Building a Life on the Land, Richard Manning

The Handyman's Book, Tools, Materials & Processes Employed in
Woodworking, by Paul N. Hasluck, 760pp, wi 2,545 illustrations and
working drawings, ISBN 0-89815-203-8, published by 10-Speed Press, P.O.
Box 7123, Berkeley, CA  94707. 1987.  Originally published in 1903.
$11.95.  Aside from being a true bargain in book prices, this is a
remarkable book in hand crafting almost anything from wood, using only
hand tools.  Includes drawings for various items such as furniture,
outbuildings, homes, tool boxes, etc. and a detailed description of the
selection, use, maintenance and care of hand tools.

The Independant Home, subtitled "Living Well with Power from the Sun,
Wind and Water", Michael Potts, ISBN 0-930031-65-2.   Available from
Real Goods.

Money Saving Strategies for the Owner/Builder, Robert L. Roy 1981,
Sterling, 0-8069-7548-2

Mother's Home Building & Shelter Guide, The Editors of TMEN 1983, Mother
Earth News, 0-938-432-03-6

The NEW Solar Electric Home, Joel Davidson 1987, Aatec, 0-937948-09-8

This Old House Guide to Building and Remodeling Materials, by Bob Villa
and Norm Abram, 1986, Warner Books ISBN 0-446-38246-9.  Few construction
techniques, per se, but lots of good information about materials to
build or rebuild structures with.  Also a good section on tools.

The Owner Built Home, Ken Kern 1972, 75, Scribners, 0-684-14226-6

Passive Annual Heat Storage by John Hait and The Rocky Mountain Research
Center, 1983, 152pp.  Available from Whole Earth Access. Use
polyethylene and insulation to maintain a constant year round
temperature in the immediate area around an underground house.

Practical Electrical Wiring by Richter & Schwan is the best that I've
seen on the subject for a homeowner. Updated with the advent of new NEC,
it is clear for the tyro and the pro alike! I don't know who publishes
it anymore, but it beats the pants off its competition!

Underground Houses, Robert L. Roy

Your Affordable Solar Home, Dan Hibshmann 1983, Sierra Club Books,
0-87156-327-4

How to build an underground house; Underground Designs; Underground
Plans Book; and A Tiny Underground House; all by Malcolm Wells and
available for a nominal ($7 - $14) cost from Malcolm Wells, Underground
Art Gallery, 673 Satucket Road,Brewster,MA 02631

These designs are all underground homes which look like something out of
the Architectural Record. They are breathtakingly beautiful, not some
survivalist bunker sort of thing.



_FIREARMS AND PRIMITIVE WEAPONS, DEFENSIVE TECHNIQUES_

Cooper on Handguns, by Jeff Cooper.  The classic book on firearms
selection, training and use.

Defending your Retreat, Delta Press.

Principles of Personal Defense, Jeff Cooper.

Shoot Out, by Tony Lesce.  A book on firearms self-defense.  Not as good
as some others.

Small Arms of the World, Ezell et al, Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, PA
The guide to most small arms of the world .22LR to .50CAL

The Survival Armory, by Duncan Long.  1994, Desert Publications.  A
current listing of survival weapons, not as good in theoretical aspects
as Tappan's Survival Guns, but more current in available weapons and
accessories.  I'd recommend reading after Survival Guns, but still a
good addition to the Survival Library.

Survival Guns, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A somewhat
dated, but still very valid, analysis of weapons (not just firearms) for
use in long and short term survival situations.

The Survival Retreat by Ragnar Benson.  "A total plan for retreat
defense".


_FIRST AID AND MEDICAL TREATMENT_

The Bantam Medical Dictionary, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-22673-8.  A
laymans medical dictionary.

Ditch Medicine, Richard L. Coffee, published by Paladin Press, Boulder,
Co 1993 ISBN  0-873464-717-3.  An excellent guide for pre-hospital care
givers in treatment of trauma associated with conflict, especially
penetrating trauma and burns.  Covers wound closure, infection control,
chest injuries, pain control during operative procedures, burns, etc.
Not a first-aid book, presupposes a fairly broad medical exposure.

Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, by the
American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.  The classic textbook for
Emergency Medical Technicians, sometimes called the "Orange Book".

Gray's anatomy.  Even the old editions, or the reprints of the "classic"
editions are worthwhile.  A very good text on human anatomy and
physiology, highly recommended.

Dr. Cohen's Healthy Sailor Book, by Michael Martin Cohen, M.D. Even if
you're too smart ever to get in a boat, you'll find good material on
such topics as hypothermia and dehydration, motion sickness, skin
problems, and psychological aberrations induced by isolation and
fatigue. Good writeup of how to mix up rehydration solutions for
diarrhea victims, using commonplace ingredients.

How to be Your Own Doctor (Sometimes), by Sehnert.  A good guide on
deciding if you need a doctor or not.

Hypothermia, Frostbite and Other Cold Injuries, Wilkerson, M.D., Bangs,
M.D., Hayward, M.D.

Hypothermia: Killer of the Unprepared, by Theodore G. Lathrop, M.D.  A
thin pamphlet published by The Mazamas, a climbing group.  Case studies,
warning signs and prevention advice. This was a sort of cult classic in
the seventies, among outdoorsy types. It pulls no punches and no doubt
has saved some lives. Quick, effective way to become clued about this
lethal problem.

Mangement of Wilderness and Environmental Emergencies, by Auerbach and
Geeher.  A medical textbook (warning) discussing simple and advanced
treatments.

Medicine for Mountaineering, published by the Mountaineers.  A good
intermediate-duration care book, with heavy emphasis on the mountains
and the problems of them.

Medicine for the Outdoors: A Guide to Emergency Medical Procedures
and First Aid   by Paul S. Auerbach, M.D. (revised and updated)
1991 Little Borwn and Company  ISBN 0-316-05931.  400 pages of
information about emergency procedures that laypeople can do
effectively.

The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Treatment, published by Merck.  The
classic diagnostic medical book, heavy on drug treatments rather than
surgical interventions.  A new edition is released every four or five
years.

Outdoor Emergency Care, by Bowman.  The National Ski Patrol emergency
medical text.  More applicable to emergency care in less than urban
situations.

The Physicians' Desk Reference (aka The PDR) 2497 pages Published by
Medical Economics Data Division of Medical Economics Co., Inc. Oradell
NJ  07649  Order by mail: Physicians' Desk Reference Reference P.O. box
10689 Des Moines, IA  50336 Order by fax: (515) 284-6714
This is a good _illustrated_ reference work about prescription drugs.
Could help in identifying any drugs found or procured in a survival
situation. My 1991 copy cost around $50 but since it's published every
year you could probably get last year's free from a friendly doctor or
nurse (they don't usually save the old ones).

Ships Medicine Chest and First Aid at Sea  published by the USPHS for
(mostly) the merchant marine.  Covers prescription drugs (legal and
technical), lists of drugs and material for different sizes ships.  Good
coverage of death, though burial at sea may not be an option for most.
Good disease section (including VD), doesn't assume a bunch of healthy
males such as some of the wilderness books.  The section on getting
medical advise over HF radio from the USPHS may be worth it's weigh in
gold for Hams.

Special Forces Medical Handbook.  This is a reprint of a US Army
training handbook, and covers many medical techniques as they apply to
unconventional operations.  Chapters on sterilizing under field
conditions, and field dentistry and obstetrics are especially good.

Wilderness Medicine 4th ed.  by William  Forgey  MD  covers  many common
medical problems, suggests med's for kits, assumes no doc- tor or EMS is
available.  Best of all, written  for  the  layman. Very good book.

Where there is no Doctor by ?  Originally a manual for Chinese village
health aides, good and modern information for life in a western world,
without all of the resources.

_GARDENING, FOOD GROWING AND FARMING_

Backyard Bonanza...an introduction to intensive gardening. By the
editors of Organic Gardening Magazine, and printed by Rodale.  Short
(<50 pp.) but effective intro to high-yield growing beds. I saw no
mention of ways the investigating varmints can be used to increase the
nutrition value of a gardening effort <g>, but that's Rodale for you

Bardswell, Frances A.  The Herb Garden, with illustrations by the Hon.
Florence Amherst and Isabelle Forrest.  London:  Adam & Charles Black,
1911.  Hard cover, 173 pages, index, tables, paste-in color
illustrations.  $20

Buchman, Dian Dincin.  Herbal Medicine:  The Natural Way to Get Well and
Stay Well.  New York:  Gramercy, 1980.  Hard cover with DJ, 310 pages,
index, drawings, list of resources.  $12

Fox, Helen M.  My Years in My Herb Garden.  New York:  MacMillan, 1953;
first printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, index, very good
condition.  $9

Freeman, Margaret B.  Herbs for the Mediaeval Household, for Cooking,
Healing and Divers Uses.  New York:  The Metropolotian Museum of Art,
1943.  Hard cover, 48 pages, illustrated with drawings.  Excellent
condition.  $9

Gibbons, Euell.  Stalking the Wild Asparagus:  Field Guide Edition.  A
field guide to edible wild plants.  New York: David McKay, 1972;
reprint.  Paper, 303 pages, excellent condition.  $6

Complete Book of Composting by ? (boring, but informative)

Grow it! by Richard Langer

The Four-Season Harvest by Eliot Coleman.  R. R. Donneley & Sons, 1992

The Bread machine Cookbook IV (Whole grains & natural sugars) by Donna
German Bristol Publishing, 1992

Growing Food in Solar Greenhouses by Delores Wolfe (all the folks up
North)

Kadans, Joseph M.  Modern Encyclopedia of Herbs:  A comprehensive,
practical, up-to-date reference work covering hundreds of herbs:  common
names, cooking uses, botanical names, cosmetic uses, growing conditions,
medical uses.  New York:  Parker Publishing, 1970.  Hard cover with dust
jacket, 256 pages, cross-referenced index.  Very good condition.  $12

Medsger, Oliver Perry.  Edible Wild Plants.  New York:  McMillan, 1954.
Hard cover with DJ, 323 pages, photos, drawings, index, index of
scientific names.  $14

Miloradovich, Milo.  The Home Garden Book of Herbs & Spices:  The
complete handbook on growing, preparing and preserving all culinary
herbs and spices--for the gardener, the homemaker, and the gourmet.
Garden City, NY:  Doubleday, 1952.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 236
pages, index, list of botanical names.  $10

Pond, Barbara.  A Sampler of Wayside Herbs:  Rediscovering Old Uses For
Familiar wild Plants; illustrated by Edward and Marcia Norman.  New
York: Greenwich House, 1974.  Hard cover with DJ, index, bibliography,
color and B&W drawings and paintings, 126 pages.  Excellent condition.
$14

How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons (great book, I'm currently
using guidelines for my backyard garden)

Ramsbottom, John.  Edible Fungi, with colour plates by Rose Ellenby.
London:  Penguin, 1948.  Hard cover, 45 pages, 24 color plates.
Excellent condition.  $7

Ranson, Florence.  British Herbs.  Harmondsworth:  Penguin Books, 1949.
Paper, 203 pages, illustrated with photos and drawings.  Excellent
condition.   $6

Rohde, Eleanour Sinclair.  Herb Gardening.  London:  Medici Society,
1945; 2nd printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 206 pages, illustrated
with drawings, color & B&W photos.  Very good condition.  $9

Taylor, George M.  British Herbs and Vegetables.  London:  Collins,
1947.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 48 pages, color and B&W photos and
drawings.  $8

The Handbook for Fruit Explorers by Ram Fishman North American Fruit
Explorers, 1986

NAFEX is an organization of people who experiment with fruit trees.  It
has a periodic newsletter which is consists of articles and letter
submitted by members.

Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew (1981 Rodale Press
0-87857-341-0). Read it.

ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping from the A.I.Root library

The Hive and the Honey Bee from Dadant Publications

How to Make $100000 farming 25 Acres by Wheatly

Successful Small Sacle Farming by Schwenke

The Contrary Farmer by Gene Lodgson

Christmas Trees by Lewis Hill

The Backyard Homestead Mini Farm & Garden Log Book

John Jeavons How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons



_GENERAL SURVIVALISM TOPICS (As opposed to short-term SURVIVAL)_

Basic Preparedness, The Survival Center, Inc., @1994, ISBN 0-9642342-0-3
A good primer on food storage, water storage, very basic medical
supplies, grains etc.

Basic Self-Reliance, It is written as an instructors manual to teach
people in underdeveloped countries how to take care of themselves. It
shows how to make a hand powered wahing machine, a water clarifier (not
purifier), an evap. refrigerator, and much more.  It has a great chapter
on worms and and how to treat them, compost piles, and other low/no
technology solutions to basic health in a survival situation.  While
it's geared (I think) to the LDS missionary, it provides good
information in a non-sectarian manner.  Available from the LDS
distribution center, 152 pages, illustrated, spiral bound.  Current
price is $4.60, it'd probably cost another $1.00 to mail.  Check with
your local LDS Church or Ward, or ask an LDS member.

Checklist for Survival, by Tony & Jo-Anne Lesce.  It is the best
scenario and make you think book that I have seen.  It discusses how,
when, and where to prepare, use the black market, hide, defend, flee,
group, loot, ambush, grow food, get safe water, get fuel, obtain
transportation, and forage.

Crisis Preparedness Handbook by Jack A Spigarelli  Resource
Publications:Provo, Ut  1984  ISBN 0-936348-00-3. Covers food,
communications, tools (only 2 pages on guns), transportation, fuel and
water, radiological defence, etc.  The only week section was on guns, it
looked like a brief overview of Tappan, without explaining any of the
logic behind it.  The food storage is over half the book, and starts out
by calculating the ammount of calories you need, and working through the
various foods, both storage (freeze dried, whole grains) as well as
canned goods explaining the recommended ammount of each group.
Information on storing your own, gardening and forging was also
included.  Excellent biblography.

How to Survive in the City and Country, Ragner Benson.  Probally Bensons
best book.  Sections on trapping, generators (diesel, from china),
gardening, building a home, defense, etc.  Good general ideas for people
who can't buy their future.

Living Well on Practically Nothing, Edward H. Romney, @1992, ISBN
0-87364-694-0 A good reference especially if the financial times get
very hard.  Lots of good advise on how to get by with very little money.
Plus if you could save $1000.00 a year using this book just think of the
nice survival items you could buy. :-)

Making the best of Basics (Family Preparedness Handbook) by James
Talmage Stevens published by Peton Corporation PO Box 11925 , Salt lake
City, Utah 84147 distributed ??? Tower Enterprises, 7652 Silver Lake
Drive, Salt Lake , Utah, 84121

Preparing for Emergencies, by James. M. McKeever.  ISBN 0-86694-125-8
1993 (in print, unlke many other recommended books) Synopsis:  A general
How-to-prepare book with a twist:  each chapter is prioritzed with the
most important steps to take in the first few chapters.  E.g., Ch.1
Disasters, Ch.2 Water, Ch.3 Heat/Light, Ch.4 First Aid...  I.e. if
you're only going to do one thing, store water, two things, water &
heat/light, etc.

The Sense of Survival, A Comprehensive Guide to Survival, by
J. Allan South. The publisher is so small it is hard to order.  It is
carried by: Emergency Essentials, 165 S. Mountain Way Drive, Orem, UT
84058-5119  phone 1-800-999-1863 my favorite mail order co. The book is
$14.95 + $6 shipping for any order.

Survival with Style, Bradford Angier (also Field Guide to Edible Wild
Plants, same author).  No nonsense outdoor survival and woodcraft, from
an old timer who has done it. Much more indepth than other texts, and
had good, but brief coverage of firearms (the result of a slight
American (North and South) bias).

Tappan on Survival, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A
collection of the late Mr. Tappans articles in various magazines.

"Village Technology Handbook", by VITA (Volunteers in Technical
Asssitance), ISBN  086619-275-1


_HOMESTEADING_ How to create a home away from civilization

Anything written by Bradford Angier.  Should be available in libraries
or used book stores.

Country Blacksmithing by Charles McRaven. This is a very practical guide
to metalworking with limited equipment. There's a very complete, and
accurate, section on tempering steels.

Five Acres and Independence by M.G. Kains. It's a handbook for small
farm management.  It describes cropping methods, plants, and farming
techniques for small farms (5 acres or less).

The Foxfire Books (all of them).  Sorting the wheat from the chaff, lots
of good information on basic homesteading skills.

How to Survive Without a Salary by Charles Long Horizon Publishing, 1981

The Modern Homestead Manual, by Thomsen and Freshwater, ISBN
0-9625960-4-3, 215 pages.  Discusses the whys, hows and whens of moving
to the country, covering topics that other books have missed.

Practical Blacksmithing, by M.T. Richardson. This is a classic from the
turn of the century. If you are interested in old methods, this is a
must read.



_INSPIRATIONAL BOOKS (non-fiction)

Early Man And The Ocean, by Thor Heyerdahl. That's right, the guy who
sailed the seas in heaps of balsa and bunches of reeds. This is a
retrospective and contemplative look at his life's obsession,
understanding the ways humans traveled abroad during our dim prehistory.

Give your Heart to the Hawks by Winfred Blevins Great book based on the
factual adventures of the mountian men. Good account of Hugh Grant ( not
sure of the name ) being mauled by a Grizzly bear, left for dead by his
companions, including a young Jim Bridger, and not only making his way
back to the base camp, but then pursuing his false comrades for revenge!

The Raft by Robert Trumbull.  Three USN Aircrew navigate their raft 34
days to a landfall. Info on desperation navigation, finding food and
water at sea, and how to turn a Model 1911A1 into a better hammer when
it's going to rust solid anyway.

Survival in Auschwitz, by Primo Levi.  Learn the importance of attitude
in survival; those who kept hope alive in their hearts were far more
likely to make it through--as well as being able to think quick and
adapt.

Shackleton's Valiant Voyage by Alfred Lansing.  Antartic explorers lose
their ship in pack ice after a year of wating no rescue. Three (of the
28) sail a boat from the edge of the ice to South Georgia and make first
crossing of island mountain range. All survive.

Trapped at Pearl Harbor by Stephen Bower Young.  What to do when your
battle ship turns over?  Well, don't give up is a good start.

The Tracker, as told by William Jon Watkins.  Stories of his learning
and usage of survival techniques and tracking

The Search, Tom Brown with William Owen.  Same as above, but continued

Granfather, Tom Brown.  Account of Life of his Teacher, a South Lippan
Apache Scout. Many survival stories

Nature Philosophy Books by Tom Brown: The Vision The Quest The Journey
        Awakening Spirits

     Newt Gingrich's recommended reading list:

     Alvin and Heidi Toffler, authors of "Future Shock" and "The Third
     Wave."

     Federalist  Papers,  posted to political groups on the net.

     Toqueville  Travels  and Democracy in America

     The Declaration of Independence - Posted to the net

     The Constitution of the United States of America - Posted to the
     net

     Druckers  "Effective Executive,

     Demmings "Concepts  of  Quality

     Progress  and  Freedom  Foundation's  report on  Alvin Toffler's
      works

     Quote of Newt recommending the Founders in general:
             "In  the  other  direction  I  suggest  to  them, immerse
             yourself  in  the  Founding  Fathers. These people thought
             a long time about the nature of  being human,  about the
             problems  of power,  about  how to organize a free society
             so it could sustain freedom. And if you can combine the
             two, you can begin to  create an  opportunity  for  every
             American to participate in ways that will prove to be quite
             remarkable."   -- Newt Gingrich

     The Ruling Class: Inside the Imperial Congress_ (Eric Felten,
Heritage Foundation, 1993).  It's a fascinating account of how Congress
has abrogated its responsibility to write rational and reasonable laws,
how it sidesteps accountability for its actions, and how it has turned
itself into an incumbency machine.


_MISCELLANY_

A serious dictionary of your favorite language.

The Book of Outdoor Lore, by Clyde Ormond.  A great book full of
survival skills, equipment needed (nothing high-tech: this book is from
the 1950's), edible plants and animals and how to gather/hunt/prepare
them, etc. Even includes making and using primitive weapons (e.g., a
hunting sling).

A Bouncer's Guide to Barroom Brawling by Peyton Quinn. Hand to hand
stuff, mostly unarmed, a bit of weapons, hardly adresses guns at all,
but what it does cover, it covers well, especially the mental, avoidance
of the "machismo bullshit" effect, etc.

Care and Use of Individual Clothing and Equipment, Army Field Manual
21-15.  How to use basic field gear.

Cold comfort : keeping warm in the outdoors / Glenn Randall. New York,
NY : Lyons & Burford, c1987. ISBN 0941130460 (pbk.) : $9.95.  An
excellent discussion of how to stay warm.

Everyone's Knife Bible by Don Paul. Very interesting book.

The Farmer's Dog, by John Holmes Popular Dogs Publishing, 1984

Field Hygiene and Sanitation, Army Field Manual 21-10/Air Force Manual
161-10.  Basic field sanitation techniques.

How to hide almost anything, by Krotz.  Ideas about hiding small items
in your home, in false panels, cabinet fronts, etc.

How to Shit in the Woods, by Kathleen Meyer.  The name says it all.

Improvised Munitions Handbook, TM 31-210, Department of the Army
Technical Manual, 1969.  The how to do it, including:  9mm pipe pistol,
pipe shotgun, fertilizer an-al explosive, improvised black powder,
reuseable primer, pipe bombs, fuse, gasoline gelled with animal blood,
and many others.

The Modern Gunsmith (2 volumes) (c. 1930).  It discusses many topics,
including machining, forging and tempering (complete with a full-color
"color chart" for tempering; gives approximate temperatures for the
various colors, and the uses of such tools).  If you can find this book,
it's probably worth whatever you have to pay for it.

Modern Weapons Caching, by Ragnar Benson.  How to long-term store most
anything.

The Morrow Guide to Knots, Bigon and Regazzoni.  Lots of different
knots, how and when to tie them.

The Official Boy Scout Fieldbook - A must-have, especially the older
versions.

The Official Boy Scout Handbook - A classic, both the current edition
and especially older versions

Pocket Ref, Thomas J. Glover, Sequoia Publishing, 1989 ISBN #
0-9622359-0-3.  A pocket-sized book full of potentially useful
information about machining, wood, building, electronics and computers,
Gasses, and all sorts of other stuff.  Highly recommended - this book is
one that I keep loosing, I should buy several copies and keep them in my
toolbox, desk, at work, and in my briefcase.

The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch Warner Books 1985
ISBN 0-446-38002-4 (USA) (0-446-38003-2 Canada) 8" x 9 1/4" 145 ppg.
paper  ($12.50, 13.50 in Can. - as of 1985) Razor-Edge Systems, Inc.  PO
Box 150, Ely, Minnesota 55731. 218 365 6419, 218 365 5360 (fax), 800 541
1458 (orders.) The book (item BK10) is $12.50 plus $4 shipping. An
excellent book on sharpening knives, axes, razors, etc.

Ropes, Knots and Slings for Climbers, by Walt Wheelock.  If your life is
dangling by a rope, lets make sure the knot is tied correctly.

US Army Special Forces Caching Techniques.  A reprint of a US Army
Manual from Desert Publications, P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751
Brief but thorough discussion of how to hide things, including
techniques that I'd never considered like anchoring them underwater. One
small criticism, the chapter on burying lists the tools to have, a
shovel might also be useful!

The Survivor, Volumes 1-4 by Kurt Saxon.  Old time techniques.

Tracking, a Blueprint for learning how, by Jack Kearney.  How to follow
people's and animals tracks, and by exclusion, how to avoid being
tracked.

Urban Combat, a reprint of a US Army Manual, from Desert Publications,
P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751 Information on current doctrine
for combat in urban areas, how to select and defend urban locations and
considerations of standard military weapons.

Vehicle Recovery Operations, Army Field Manual 21-22.  How to get
unstuck, also has good information about moving large heavy objects with
things found at hand.

Shelter, Shelter Pubs. 1973, Ten Speed Press. A historical, cultural
and practical perspective of shelter designs from around the world.
Also the aspects of water, food and waste (human, animal, food)
managment.  What to do with food and animal waste?  Some can be used for
compost. To my knowledge carnivorous waste is no good (food or fecal,
check me on this people).

The Yankee Magazine Book of Forgotten Arts.  Bacon, Richard M. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1978.   Hard cover, 217 pages.  Covers such topics as
cooking on a wood stove, building a smokehouse, using root cellars,
keeping a family cow, working with a draft horse, creating dyes from
common plants, making soap, wooden toys, paint, painting colonial
patterned floors, numerous others. .

Working at Woodworking by Jim Topin

Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Furniture Design by Seth Stem

The Workshop Book by Scott Landis

The Workbench Book by Scott Landis

Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country by Les Scher

How to Get Off the Fast Track by M.M Kirsch

Tom Brown's Field Guides to:
     City and Suburban Survival
     The Forgotten Wilderness
     Wilderness Survival
     Living with the Earth
     Nature
     Observation and Tracking
     Nature and Survival for Children
     Wild Edible and Medicinal Plants

Peterson's Field Guide to Animal Tracks


_NAVIGATION, MAPS AND COMPASS, STARS_

Atlas Of The Night Sky, Storm Dunlop and Wil Tirion. Before you can make
much use of the stars, for timekeeping or navigation, you have to be
able to find and identify the twinkly things. Fine whole-sky coverage,
to magnitude 6, epoch 2000.0, and the appealingly clear Tirion celestial
cartography.

Be Expert with Map and Compass, Bjorn Kjellstrom.  The classic on using
orienteering style compasses.

Delorme's Atlas and Gazetteer of individual states.  Currently available
for most Western States (except Nevada and New Mexico,  and most of the
Eastern States) these books combine topographic map information from the
USGS surveys and more current information about roads and other man-made
structures into folio-sized mapbooks in full color.  Scale is 1:250,000
or so (about 1 inch=4 miles) for Arizona, and 1:150,000 for California,
other states may vary.  A good, accurate and compact way of getting
information about areas of interest to you.

Finding Your Way On Land Or Sea Reading Nature's Maps, by Harold Gatty.
Formerly published, in Australia, as Nature Is Your Guide. The best
account extant of 'natural' navigation, that is, relying on observation
and deduction instead of instrumentation. Waves and sand dunes, birds
and insects, even the habits of plants are covered. Also worth reading
is his advice for staying oriented in strange towns. Includes
worthwhile, simplified  directions for determining direction from the
sun and stars and (local) time from the stars, also some highly
thought-provoking remarks on Polynesian celestial technique.

Goode's World Atlas, Rand McNally Co. Good climate, resource and
population maps; maps of ocean winds and currents, tabulated latitudes
and longitudes of population centers.

Topographic Symbols, Army Field Manual 21-31.  What the symbols on maps
mean.  Also applies to USGS topographic maps.

Map Reading, Army Field Manual 21-26.  How to use (correctly) military
style lensatic compasses, and the best discussion of military grid
systems such as UTM (Universal Transverse Mercator).

Wilderness Route Finder, by Calvin Rutstrum.  One of the few
non-military books discussing how to use the military style lensatic
compass, good information on general routefinding.



_NUCLEAR WAR AND RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE PREPARATIONS_

The Chernobyl Syndrome (and how to survive it), by Dean Ing copyright
1988 Baen Books ISBN:  0-671-65345-8 paperback, 330 pages.  More good
information from Ing.

Life after Doomsday, Bruce Clayton.  Good information on selecting a
location to "retreat" in, skills and tools.  Also excellent advise on
nuclear war planning and preparation.

Nuclear War Survival Skills, by Cresson Kearny.  Do it yourself fallout
shelters, radiation detection information, etc.  If you think the chance
of nuclear attack or incident is a threat, you should certainly have
this book.

For people who are looking for a source for Cresson Kearny's Nuclear War
Survival Skills, you can write to the following.
     The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine
     P.O. Box 1279
     Cave Junction, Oregon 97523

Pulling Through, by Dean Ing.  While this is actually a fictional book,
I've included it here because of the depth and accuracy of the scenario
that he presents, as well as the reprints of Nuclear War Survival
Skills, on building a fallout meter.  Also good information on expedient
shelter construction, but I'd still recommend Kearny for a detailed
discussion.

Radiological Defense Manual, CPG 2-6.2, Defense Civil Preparedness
Agency.  Information on fallout patterns and protection.

Risks and Hazards: A State by State Guide", Federal Emergency Management
Agency, P.O.Box 70274, Washington, DC  20024, (1990, publication #
FEMA-196). Contains maps for each state charting likely nuclear targets
and damage zones surrounding them.  Also has smaller maps of each state
showing location of nuclear power plants and areas subject to
earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.  Last section in- cludes
suggestions and checklists for dealing with the various kinds of
diasters.

Surviving Doomsday by C. Bruce Sibley.  Information-rich, with a
British/European flavor.


_PRIMITIVE SURVIVAL SKILLS AND TECHNIQUES_

Bushcraft, by R. Graves.  Written by a trainer of the Australian SAS,
survival manual Australian style, with a superb array of improvised
traps and snares, including fish traps. Limited amount of plant
information, and that mainly useful to Australians, but some universally
applicable good things to know, like identifying cyanide and oxylates by
flavor (*small* taste).

Outdoor Survival Skills, by Larry Dean Olsen. A classic manual
emphasizing American Indian techniques. Has information on making your
own primitive tools and weapons, shelters and clothing. A particularly
good feature is that dozens of edible or medicinal plants are described,
and illustrated using sharply focused color photos. All are plants found
in the American West--Olsen works out of BYU-- but many of them have
more general distribution.


_POWER GENERATION_

The Complete Battery Book Richard A Perez Tab Books Inc. Blue Ridge
Summit, PA 17214 ISBN 0-8306-1757-4 (paperback) 185 pages, illustrated.
Written for the layman.  Talks about What is a battery, lead acid,
ni-cad, edison cells, primary cells, methods and machines to charge,
using batteries effectively, Inverters, Energy management, and new
battery technologies (the book was written in 1985), formulae and
conversion factors. A great book.  Will teach you the basics of
batteries.

An Introduction to Solar Energy for Scientists and Engineers, Sol Wieder
publisher: Krieger ISBN: 0-89464-444-0 1992, a reprint of the 1982
edition 316 pages $57.50.

Survival Scrapbook #3 ENERGY by Stefan A. Szczelkun ISBN 0-8052-0449-0.
This is a good book on basic ways to use/make energy from a variety of
sources including sections on Solar, Wind, Fires, Water, Heat,
Electricity generation, Animal power, and Meditation.  This book has a
very good section on bio-fuels especially the extraction of methane from
wastes.

Stoner, Carol Hupping, ed.  Producing Your Own Power:  How to Make
Nature's Energy Sources Work For You.  Emmaus PA: Rodale Press, 1974.


     _BIOFUELS_

Automotive Engineering Publications.  Convert your car to run on alcohol
fuel.  Minneapolis, Minn. : Burgess Pub. Co., c1980.  121 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Alcohol motor fuel cookbook.  Cornville,
Ariz. : Desert Publications, c1979.  vi, 140 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Second alcohol fuel cookbook.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : TAB Books, 1981, 303 p.

Carley, Larry W.  How to make your own alcohol fuels / 2nd ed.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : Tab Books, c1981.  279 p.

Crombie, Lance.  Making alcohol fuel : recipe & procedure.  Minneapolis,
Minn. : Rutan Pub., c1979.  115, {3} p.

Drane, Keat B.  Convert your car to alcohol.  Louisville, Ky. : Love
Street Books, c1980.  60 p.

Hamn, Tom.  Moonshine motorfuel : practical fuel-alcohol handbook : how
to make it, how to use it.  Fruita, CO : T. Hamn, c1992.  81 leaves
(approx 162 p.)

Lincoln, John Ware.  Driving without gas.  Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way
Pub., c1980.  x, 150 p.

Mathewson, Stephen W.  The manual for the home and farm production of
alcohol fuel.  Berkeley, Calif. : Ten Speed Press, c1980.  xii, 208 p.

McCoy, Ozzie.  Making moonshine fuel.  Louisville, Ky. : Love Street
Books, c1981.  95 p.

The Mother earth news alcohol fuel handbook.  Hendersonville, N.C. :
Mother Earth News, c1980.  120 p.

Nellis, Micki.  Makin' it on the farm : alcohol fuel is the road to
independence.  Iredell, Tex. : American Agriculture News

Ross, James R.  Fuel alcohol, how to make it, how to use it.  New York :
St. Martin's Press, c1981.  xv, 176 p.

Stetson, Fred.  Making your own motor fuel, with home and farm alcohol
stills. Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way Pub., c1980.  v, 186 p.

Vehicle modification for alcohol use.  Available from National Technical
Information Service, 1981.

Wortham, Jim.  Forget the gas pumps--make your own fuel.  Louisville,
Ky. : Love Street Books, c1979.  80 p.



_RADIOS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES_

Radios that Work for Free" by K.E. Edwards, published by Hope and Allen
Publishing Company, P.O. Box 926, Grants Pass, Oregon, 97526. ISBN
0-934264-02-3.

Visual Signals, Army Field Manual 21-60.  Standardized hand and
non-spoken signals.


_SURVIVAL (Short term, as opposed to GENERAL SURVIVALISM)_

Aircrew Survival, Air Force Manual 64-5, 1 Sept 85.  A pocket sized book
on immediate survival skills.

Search and Rescue - Survival Training, Air Force Regulation 64-4.  The
larger, full sized textbook for survival.

The Survival Book, by Nesbit.  Good General Survival techniques.

Survival Skills of the N. American indians by Peter Goodman

J. Wiseman, 'SAS Survival Handbook, 1986'. Despite that the book is
written by a Special Air Service survival trainer and named after SAS
(UK military elite troop), the book is purely civilian. A modern book.
Covers many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak on all
(eg. winter survival).

Survival, US Army Field Manual 21-76 ??, 1970. A bit outdated. Attempts
to cover very many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak
on all.

Individual operations and survival in cold weather areas' (?), US Army
Training Circular TC-??, 1986 ?. Small booklet on basic level.


K. Vainio et al. 'Miten selvian luonnossa', WSOY, 1983. 239p. Finnish.
Written by foremost Finnish survival experts and used on their survival
course. Reflects military practice. Requires some initial knowledge as
descriptions are brief. Excellent.

Handbok overlevnad, Armen, 1988. 228p. Swedish. Well illustrated,
pedagogic, Swedish mil survival handbook. Rather low initial level
required. Particularily strong on plants, well researched. Snow shelters
could be better imo. Excellent.

O. Aulio, 'Suuri retkeilykirja', Gummerus 1990. 567p. Finnish. A
hiking/wandering handbook with wide coverage. Lots of information,
including peace time survival. Some of the information has been taken
directly from other refs. possibly without evaluation by the author. No
plant usage described. Excellent.

V. Karanko, 'Pelastustoiminta vaaratilanteissa', Otava, 1976. 359p.
Finnish. Civil protection in peace, crisis and some war time situations.
Much is for organizing resque operations. Somewhat outdated. Wilderness
survival is not discussed except working of SAR. Good.

* S. Johansson, 'Spardressyr' Spektra, 1986. 224p. Swedish. Training
course for tracking dogs. Training and function of search, rapport,
protection and sled dogs are also covered briefly. Good.



                 Books with Survival Themes (Fictional)

Footfall, by Jerry Pournelle.  Alien's similar to elephants invade the
earth.  A good deal of how to survive in urban areas without the
infrastructure we would normally have.

Lucifer's Hammer, by Pournelle.  A comet strikes the earth, many
survival skills and scenes.  Also deals with canibalism.

Tunnel in the Sky, by Heinlein.  Survival in an unexpected, long term
situation.

Sixth Column, by Heinlein.  Survival after enemy invasion of the US.

Farnham's Freehold, by Heinlein.  One mans preparation and success in
surviving nuclear war.

Puling Though, by Dean Ing.  Post nuclear war scenario, Mr. Ing manages
to discuss a wide variety of pertinent survival skills.

The Stand, by Sephen King.  All reports suggest the book is better than
the miniseries on TV was, I haven't read the book, and I didn't watch
the series.  Starts out with a plague killing most people on earth,
turns supernatural towards the end.

Alas Babylon, by Pat Frank.  The first (?) survivalist book.  Nuclear
war survival in rural Florida.

No Blade of Grass, by John Christopher? A plague wipes out all food
grains over most of the earth.  People fleeing London for Wales, also
forming local alliances and groups.

The Sheep Look Up, by John Brunner.  Survival in an ecologically damaged
America.

Stand on Zanzibar, by John Brunner.  Life in an oppressive police state,
within an ecologically damaged world.

Maleville, by Robert Merle.  Post nuclear war survival in rural France.
Interesting social dramas, not too good for survival skills.

Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.  Useful for understanding the people
responsible for the problems.

Wolf & Iron, by Gordon R. Dickson.  Post economic colapse. Lone wanderer
scavanges and learns his way across several states. Finaly sets up as
blacksmith and farmer rancher.

A Canticle for Leibowitz, by  Walter M. Miller.  A fascinating book
about long-term post apocolypse story, about the value of books and
knowledge.

The Postman, by David Brin.  A great book about a traveller in the
medium - long post nuclear war environment, the establishment of local
and regional governments, and the value of a travelling postman to carry
news from one region to another.

Earth Abides by George R Steward.  Pandemic survivors find each other
and build comunities initially based on scavanging.  Inertia causes
little of predisaster technology and culture to be passed on, causing
great anguish to main charater.

Survivors by Terry Nation.  Pneumonic plauge strain spread by air travel
kills off most of the population.  Set in Great Britain, a survivor
group failing under pressure from bad weather and hostile neighbors
migrates to the south of France. Strangely enough Brits will use guns if
they can get them.

The Folk of the Fringe by Orson Scott Card.  Short stories set shortly
after a socital colapse. All stories are about Mormons or converts.

All Fools' Day by Edmund Cooper.  A new type of radation (yuk yuk)
causes most of mankind to commit suicide. The immune are 'creative
artists of all kinds, lunatics, political and reigious fanatics,
prostitutes and pathological animal lovers.' Set in Great Britain.

Harvest of Stars, by Poul Anderson:  America where political correctness
has become a religion and taken over.  One must think ahead and be on
ones toes at all times in dealing with a police state; acting experience
is a plus!

Vandenberg, by Oliver Lange.  Life in a United States occupied by Soviet
(or whatever) troops.  Frightening.

Warday and Nature's End, by Whitley Straub

The Ends of the Circle, by Paul O. Williams

Some Will Not Die, by Algis Budrys.  Post pandemic in New York City Son
of inital main char forms the "Reunification Army" to create the "Second
Republic." Guns guns and more guns and living on 20 year old canned
goods. Still not a bad story.

Only Lovers Left Alive by Dave Wallis.  Set in Britain, virtually
everyone over 19 commits suicide over a 2 year period.  A street gang
rises to the conquest of London metro area but finds it tough going in
the country when the canned good run out.

"Out of the Ashes" series by William Johnstone.  The first is excellent
on establishing attitude and the others each have a few tidbits in them.
His Tri-states concept is developing almost a cult-like following in
some areas.  Most of the later volumes are just pay copy (Is there any
other reason to write?) so you have to wade through a lot of story line
to pick out the good parts.  He writes interesting copy so it isn't a
chore.

Path to Savagery by Robert Edmund Alter.  The world after a minor
nuclear war.  The polar ice caps have melted, flooding the coast lines.
North America is suffering from a drought and millions of people are
dead.  The hero is a "loner" who avoids interacting with the tribes that
most of the survivors have joined.  He has a Thompson sub-machine gun
and the right attitude.

The Castle Keeps by Andrew J Offutt.  American life has gradually gone
to hell in a handbasket, especially in the cities.  Story of a family
that moved to a farm determined to do what it takes to survive and live
well.  My only complaint with this book is that the protagonist uses a
Colt .45 SAA instead of a M1911.    Other than this, he scenes involving
firearms are very well done.

Winters Daughter by Charles Whitmore.  Told in the style of a Norse
Saga, the life of a woman born in Africa just after a nuclear war, to
American and Norse parents. She lives in N. America and Norway, goes
down swinging in a feud in Norway in the best saga tradition.

The Long Loud Silence by Wilson Tucker.  Bio war wipes out USA east of
Mississippi.  The story of an "immune" (all such are carrers). Canablism
is adopted by some survivors.

The day of the triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

"Z for Zachariah" fictional account of a young woman surviving the
aftermath of a nuclear war on her parents farm.  Very weak on science.
She lives in a protected valley, and everything outside the valley is
dead.  Then one day a man shows up who invented a radiation proof suit
with a pushcart (since cars are radioactive).  She hides in the woods,
unsure of what to do.  Finally she shows herself, but not before he
drinks from a radioactive pond.  He gets sick, she helps him, he
eventualy tries to rape her, and she hides again.  It had some good
points, such as hiding her garden, geting fuel from pumps w/o
electricity, and what to do with her dog, since it could be used by the
man to find her.  (reviewer) read it in Jr High school in the school
library, so its at least 13 old, and intended for younger readers.








                       Magazines and Periodicals

American Survival Guide, McMullen & Yee Publishing, 774 South Placentia
Ave. Placentia, CA  92670  (714) 572-2255 Monthly, $26.95 / year.

Backwoods Home Magazine, 1257 Siskiyou Blvd. #213, Ashland, Or  97520
Bi-monthly, $17.95.

Back Home Magazine, Wordsworth Communications, 110 Third Ave. West,
Hendersonville, NC  28792.  Quarterly, $16.00 / year.

Home Power, P.O. Box 520, Ashland, Or  97520.  Bi-monthly, $15.00 /
year.

The Wild Foods Forum, Box 61413, Virginia Beach VA  23462.  Bimonthly,
$15/yr, $2 for sample.



                             Usenet Groups

Groups you might be interested in, besides misc.survivalism
                                             
alt.architecture - alternative building techniques
alt.engr.explosives - for more serious explosives.
alt.energy.renewable
alt.radio.scanner
misc.consumer.housing
misc.emergency-services - Emergency medical and Search and Rescue
misc.rural
rec.firearms
rec.hunting
rec.pets.dogs - for your 4-legged friends
rec.radio.* - all sorts of radios and technology
rec.radio.shortwave
rec.pyrotechnics - if you're interested in things that go boom.



               USENET FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions)

FAQ's that might be of interest.  Some parts have been incorporated
here, but many others have not.

rec.pyrotechnics
rec.backpacking
rec.firearms
rec.radio.shortwave



                           Movies and Videos

The Day of the Triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

Amerika - TV movie about life in the US following an invasion and
takeover by the Soviet Union.  Interesting in terms of infrastructure
that was no longer present (phone service?) and how a resistance
organization grew.

Testament

Survivors TV series - 38 Episodes based on the Book.

Red Dawn - Soviet backed forces from Nicaragua invade Colorado, high
school students form resistance movement and fight back.

Zulu - British Soldiers in Colonial Africa fight against thousands of
Zulu warriors.  Interesting in terms of command relationships.

Zulu Dawn

Alive - Movie about the survivors of a plane crash in the Andes, who
resort to canibalism.

5 Returned?  About nuclear war in the Los Angeles area.  An identifying
scene of stopping traffic on the freeway by throwing a bucket of
gasoline across it, and setting it afire.  Anyone know what the name
really is?  How about a copy?

-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From decastro@netcom.com Tue Apr 11 21:46:22 EDT 1995
Article: 9276 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Books.list rev 0.18
Message-ID: <decastroD6n3pE.2Ir@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:51:14 GMT
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                        Survival Books, rev 0.18

Disclaimer:  Most reviews are written by the people who submit them to
me.  I only edit for style, punctuation and spelling (eventually).  I
really wouldn't like to get any flames if you disagree with the contents
of a review, if you don't like it, write another one and I'll include it
also.

General.  Books are listed (at a minimum)  by Title and Author, which
should be sufficient to find them in a library or bookstore.  I never
liked doing bibliographical information in my writing in school, and I'm
not going to do it here.  You're welcome to add your own information, if
you feel it's needed.

Also, many of the books listed are old.  Many date back to the heydays
of the survivalist movement in the seventies, some (especially the works
of Bradford Angier) are even older.  And of course, many very old books,
those from the eighteenth or nineteenth centuries, would have many good
ideas.  So, some of these books are not in print, your library might
have them, or should be able to get them via an interlibrary loan. Also,
check used book stores, garage sales, swapmeets and the like, you never
know what you might find.

Changes in rev 0.18:  Added additional books.


                        LOOKING FOR INFORMATION

Is there any worthwhile software that should be indexed?  If so, let's
discuss it in misc.survivalism, and I'll post it.

Anything that would fit into an existing catagory, or is similar to an
existing book.

Books about natural and/or homeopathic medicine

Shooting, Reloading, Making improvised weapons

Mail Order sources of books or catlogs

Alternative energy  including especially solar, micro-hydro and
geothermal energy sources.

Communications

Alternative Homebuilding

Alternative power systems

Sources of Training

????  --  If you know of a book to include here, please email me with
it's name and author, and a brief (1 or 2 sentence) description of it.
I'll compile and post them.  Send to decastro@netcom.com

Please do NOT send me anything in MIME format, if you can possibly avoid
it.  Also, please don't send me anything that's copyrighted.  If you are
the legitimate copyright holder, and are willing to place the
information in the public domain by posting it to a public newsgroup
with a suitable release, I'll be glad to incorporate it into this list -
otherwise, it's not public domain, and I won't.






                Non-Fiction Informational, Instructional
                         or Inspirational Books

_COOKING, WILD FOODS AND FOOD PRESERVATION_

Back to Basics Copyright 1981 The Reader's Digest Association, Inc. ISBN
0-89577-086-5.  Information on food storage and cooking.

The African Housewife And Her Home, by Esther Ko-eune. A book about
setting up and running a basic homestead, simply written to help people
who want to transition from semi-nomadic tribal life to settled
agriculture. Wonderfully to-the-point about compound layout, sanitation
and health, cooking and nutrition, clothesmaking and sickroom care.
[Eagle Press, 1952, printed at Nairobi]

"The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Charlie Papazian. ISBN
0-380-76366-4 "The Complete Handbook of Brewing" by Dave Miller.
Both books cover all of the bases. The Miller book is considered the
more "hardcore" of the two in terms of brewing from scratch, while the
Papazian book (actually he has a companion book out now, the name of
which currently escapes me) is more entertaining and is equally useful
to homebrewers of all experience levels.

Cooking with Home Storage, by Vicki Tate, is much more modern but
requires many more items to be stocked.  It has lots of simple recipes
and even home remedies.  It is available from Vicki Tate at:
1-801-835-8283.  Her audio tape on this topic is quite motivational.

Diet for a Small Planet, by Frances Moore Lappe, a million sold by 1975,
and still selling well. ISBN 0-345-27429-6.  THE classic. Half text
which explains the efficiency of grain consumption instead of animal
consumption. This approach could end world hunger.  Includes a good set
of recipes and guidance in balancing needed amino acids when avoiding
meat. In tuff times, we may all need this kind of efficiency.  Related
books are: Recipes for a Small Planet, by Ellen Buchman Ewald, 1973.
Food First, Beyond the Myth of Scarcity, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc.
1977. World Hunger, Twelve Myths, by Frances Morre Lappe, etc. 1986.

More-with-Less Cookbook, by Doris Janzen Longacre, suggestions by
Mennonites on how to eat better and consume less of the world's limited
food resources.  1976  Simple recipes. Lots of info on substitutions for
ingredients you don't have.  Breads, cereals, meat, soup, veggies,
complementary protein, allowances for energy and protein, garden, costs.
The recipes I have tried worked very well, including substitutions.

The Sprouter's Cookbook, for Fast Kitchen Crops, by Marjorie Page
Blanchard. 1975, Garden Way, ISBN: 0-88266-041-1  How to grow sprouts
with lots of recipes.  This is the way to get fresh veggies from long
term storage.

The Book of Whole Grains, by Marlene Anne Bumgarner, The Grain-by-Grain
Guide to Cooking, Growing, and Grinding Whole Cereals, Nuts, Peas, and
Beans. Here is where I found my favorite cookies.  I've had good luck
with the crackers and cereals.  Compares essential Amino Acid Contents
of all the grains, beans, nuts, and peas in chart form.  Discusses
grinders. 1976. ISBN:  0-312-09420-7.

The Grains Cookbook, by Bert Greene, 1988, ISBN: 0-89480-612-2 Many
recipies from around the world.  Great variety.

Wheat for Man, Why and How, with Recipes Developed Expressly for the Use
of Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour, by Vernice G. Rosenvall, etc. 1952 to
1982. ISBN: 0-88494-282-1.  If you store wheat, here is what to do with
it.

Make a Treat with Wheat, Recipes using Stoneground Whole Wheat Flour,
Cracked Wheat, and Whole Wheat, by Hazel Richards, 1968. Cereal,
including babies cereal, breads, rolls cakes, cookies, casseroles. This
can make storage food more fun.

The Taming of the CANDY* Monster, *=Continuously Advertised
Nutritionally Deficient Yummies, By Vicki Lansky, 1978.  How to replace
'junk foods'

Dutch Oven Secrets. Hopkins, Lynn.  Bountiful, Utah : Horizon
Publishers, c1990.  ISBN 0-88290-372-1.  This book has detailed
instructions on how to use your oven, and plenty of good recipes.  There
are also sections on cooking for large groups, and the use of a dutch
oven in a home food-storage program.

Edible Wild Plants, by Oliver Perry Medsger Covers all of North America,
describing over 150 of the most promising species and their habitats.
This is an old-style plant book; you will need a dictionary to decode
the botanical jargon. There are ample pen-and-ink illustrations and a
few photos. A charming feature is that the author includes a bit of the
lore and romance of the plants he describes, "...when [John] Franklin
was reduced to starvation in the Arctic regions, Rock Tripe was said to
have saved his life. It is often eaten by Canadian hunters and Indians
when food is scarce."

Essentials of Home Production and Storage, 1978, by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints.  A short (28-page) pamphlet that outlines a
method for determining what foods to store, and how to store them.
Interesting and basic information, it also contains an extensive
bibilography of related books.  It should be available from a local LDS
Church or Stake center, or book distributor.  Ask an LDS member.

The Herb Book by Lust, John B. (1974) ISBN 0-87904-007-6 Extensive
compilation of hundreds of herbs, with line drawings, descriptions,
growth ranges, parts used and uses.  Techniques of herbal medicine,
appendices of cross references of common to Latin botanical names,
extensive index.  Just about "the" book on herbology, after Culpepper's.

Kitchen Magic (How to use your food storage grains everyday) by Deanna
Smith Sudweeks, and Suzanna Smith Welton, published by Hawkes Publishing
inc, 3775 S. 500 West (PO box 15711) SLC, Utah, 84115

Old-Fashioned Dutch Oven Cookbook. Holm, Don.    Caldwell, Ohio :
Caxton, 1989, c1969.  ISBN 87004-133-9.  Also covers basic dutch oven
care and use, and lots of dutch oven recipes.  Emphasises wild game
(dutch ovens can turn an old boot into a tender, tasty meal!)  Includes
information on gutting, skining, and boning game, sourdough cooking, and
drying and/or smoking meat.  Also has a chapter on the eating habits of
the Lewis and Clark expedition (and man, did they ever eat!)

Old Fashioned Recipe Book, by Carla Emery.  A discussion of life under
less "civilized" conditions, including making butter and butchering
animals.

Passport to Survival, by Esther Dickey, Four Foods and More to Use and
Store, is the classic book of very basic food storage and use.  It
focuses on wheat, salt, honey, and powdered milk.  It has many recipes
with just these four and water.  Also includes storage, fun foods, and
outdoor cooking with these basic ingredients.

Peterson's Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants

Putting Food By Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan, Janet Greene.  How to
preserve foods, including salting and pickling.

Stocking Up, the book published by the Rodale Institute, also has some
info, perhaps even information on curing w/o nitrates.

Uprisings, the Whole Grain Bakers Book, by the Cooperative Whole Grain
Educational Association, 1990.  ISBN 0-913990-70-1.  Recipes for
whole-grain cooking.



_CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES_

Adobe Build it Yourself, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1985, Univ of Arizona
Press, 0-8165-0984-4

Adobe and Rammed Earth Buildings, Paul Graham McHenry, Jr. 1984, Univ of
Arizona Press, 0-8165-1124-1

Alex Wade's Guide to Affordable Houses, Alex Wade 1984, Rodale Press,
0-87857-511-1

Alternative House Building, Mike McClintock 1984, Popular Science Books,
0-943822-39-4

A Place of Your Own Making, Stephen Taylor 1988, Henry Holt,
0-8050-0364-9

Build a Yurt: The Low-Cost Mongolian Round House by Len Charney, 1974,
Collier Books (a division of Macmillan Publishing), 0-02-079320-0.

Building Underground, Herb Wade 1983, Rodale Press, 0-87857-421-2

Cordwood Masonry Houses, Robert L. Roy

New Compact House Designs published in 1991 by Storey Communications,
Inc. They were by a design firm called Rammed Earth Works, P.O. Box
5006, Napa, CA 94581.

Dwelling on Earth.  A Manual for the Professional Application of
Earthbuilding Techniques", David Easton.  The book has about 200 pages,
has no copyright date, no publisher, no location.  We purchased it from
the Real Goods catalog. Very good instruction manual for DIY building.

Earthbuilders' Encylopedia (current price S$20.50) and Adobe Codes,
(US$7.95) covers the codes concerning building adobes in Arizona, New
Mexico, Texas, and some California details.  With the exception of
details, most codes were modeled after the New Mexico codes which have
also been accepted as U.B.C.  Available from: Southwest Solaradobe
School P.O. Box 153 Bosque, New Mexico 87006

Timber Reduced Energy Efficient Homes (aka TREE homes) at US$17.95, by
Ed Paschich and Paula Hendricks, @1994.  Published by:  Sunstone Press,
P.O. Box 2321, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-2321.  This book has some
execellent sections on total environmental impact of the materials
selected and used for building either an adobe or an equivlant frame
home.

DESIGN OF STRUCTURES TO RESIST NUCLEAR WEAPONS EFFECTS; American Society
of Civil Engineers; ASCE Manuals and Reports on Engineering Practice No.
42; c1985; ACSE 345 East 47th St., NY, NY  10017-2398

Earth Sheltered Habitat, Gideon S. Golany 1983, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-22993-3

Earth Sheltered Housing, Max Riterman  1985, Van Nostrand/Reinhold,
0-442-28287-7

Earthships, Vols. I, II, III, Michael Reynolds  Solar Survival Press

The Electricians Toolbox Manual, by Rex Miller, 1989, published by
ARCOS/Simon and Schuster, distributed by Prentice Hall,  ISBN
0-13-247701-7.  A small sized book full of good information on
electrical wiring, the National Electrical Code, and related issues.
Seems especially good for do-it-yourselfers who are unsure about the
specifics of wiring.  Section on tools, NEC, etc.

The $50 and Up Underground House Book, 4th edition by Mike Oehler,
Illustrations by Chris Royer, Mole Publishing Company/Van Nostrand
Reinhold Company, New York, 1981, ISBN: 0-442-27311-8, 116pp. How to
build an underground house using a shovel, polyethylene, and a chainsaw
with a milling attatchment.  Reasons for going underground. Different
approach to design:  face uphill, use lots of windows for light.

The Good House: Building a Life on the Land, Richard Manning

The Handyman's Book, Tools, Materials & Processes Employed in
Woodworking, by Paul N. Hasluck, 760pp, wi 2,545 illustrations and
working drawings, ISBN 0-89815-203-8, published by 10-Speed Press, P.O.
Box 7123, Berkeley, CA  94707. 1987.  Originally published in 1903.
$11.95.  Aside from being a true bargain in book prices, this is a
remarkable book in hand crafting almost anything from wood, using only
hand tools.  Includes drawings for various items such as furniture,
outbuildings, homes, tool boxes, etc. and a detailed description of the
selection, use, maintenance and care of hand tools.

The Independant Home, subtitled "Living Well with Power from the Sun,
Wind and Water", Michael Potts, ISBN 0-930031-65-2.   Available from
Real Goods.

Money Saving Strategies for the Owner/Builder, Robert L. Roy 1981,
Sterling, 0-8069-7548-2

Mother's Home Building & Shelter Guide, The Editors of TMEN 1983, Mother
Earth News, 0-938-432-03-6

The NEW Solar Electric Home, Joel Davidson 1987, Aatec, 0-937948-09-8

This Old House Guide to Building and Remodeling Materials, by Bob Villa
and Norm Abram, 1986, Warner Books ISBN 0-446-38246-9.  Few construction
techniques, per se, but lots of good information about materials to
build or rebuild structures with.  Also a good section on tools.

The Owner Built Home, Ken Kern 1972, 75, Scribners, 0-684-14226-6

Passive Annual Heat Storage by John Hait and The Rocky Mountain Research
Center, 1983, 152pp.  Available from Whole Earth Access. Use
polyethylene and insulation to maintain a constant year round
temperature in the immediate area around an underground house.

Practical Electrical Wiring by Richter & Schwan is the best that I've
seen on the subject for a homeowner. Updated with the advent of new NEC,
it is clear for the tyro and the pro alike! I don't know who publishes
it anymore, but it beats the pants off its competition!

Underground Houses, Robert L. Roy

Your Affordable Solar Home, Dan Hibshmann 1983, Sierra Club Books,
0-87156-327-4

How to build an underground house; Underground Designs; Underground
Plans Book; and A Tiny Underground House; all by Malcolm Wells and
available for a nominal ($7 - $14) cost from Malcolm Wells, Underground
Art Gallery, 673 Satucket Road,Brewster,MA 02631

These designs are all underground homes which look like something out of
the Architectural Record. They are breathtakingly beautiful, not some
survivalist bunker sort of thing.



_FIREARMS AND PRIMITIVE WEAPONS, DEFENSIVE TECHNIQUES_

Cooper on Handguns, by Jeff Cooper.  The classic book on firearms
selection, training and use.

Defending your Retreat, Delta Press.

Principles of Personal Defense, Jeff Cooper.

Shoot Out, by Tony Lesce.  A book on firearms self-defense.  Not as good
as some others.

Small Arms of the World, Ezell et al, Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, PA
The guide to most small arms of the world .22LR to .50CAL

The Survival Armory, by Duncan Long.  1994, Desert Publications.  A
current listing of survival weapons, not as good in theoretical aspects
as Tappan's Survival Guns, but more current in available weapons and
accessories.  I'd recommend reading after Survival Guns, but still a
good addition to the Survival Library.

Survival Guns, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A somewhat
dated, but still very valid, analysis of weapons (not just firearms) for
use in long and short term survival situations.

The Survival Retreat by Ragnar Benson.  "A total plan for retreat
defense".


_FIRST AID AND MEDICAL TREATMENT_

The Bantam Medical Dictionary, Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-22673-8.  A
laymans medical dictionary.

Ditch Medicine, Richard L. Coffee, published by Paladin Press, Boulder,
Co 1993 ISBN  0-873464-717-3.  An excellent guide for pre-hospital care
givers in treatment of trauma associated with conflict, especially
penetrating trauma and burns.  Covers wound closure, infection control,
chest injuries, pain control during operative procedures, burns, etc.
Not a first-aid book, presupposes a fairly broad medical exposure.

Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, by the
American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons.  The classic textbook for
Emergency Medical Technicians, sometimes called the "Orange Book".

Gray's anatomy.  Even the old editions, or the reprints of the "classic"
editions are worthwhile.  A very good text on human anatomy and
physiology, highly recommended.

Dr. Cohen's Healthy Sailor Book, by Michael Martin Cohen, M.D. Even if
you're too smart ever to get in a boat, you'll find good material on
such topics as hypothermia and dehydration, motion sickness, skin
problems, and psychological aberrations induced by isolation and
fatigue. Good writeup of how to mix up rehydration solutions for
diarrhea victims, using commonplace ingredients.

How to be Your Own Doctor (Sometimes), by Sehnert.  A good guide on
deciding if you need a doctor or not.

Hypothermia, Frostbite and Other Cold Injuries, Wilkerson, M.D., Bangs,
M.D., Hayward, M.D.

Hypothermia: Killer of the Unprepared, by Theodore G. Lathrop, M.D.  A
thin pamphlet published by The Mazamas, a climbing group.  Case studies,
warning signs and prevention advice. This was a sort of cult classic in
the seventies, among outdoorsy types. It pulls no punches and no doubt
has saved some lives. Quick, effective way to become clued about this
lethal problem.

Mangement of Wilderness and Environmental Emergencies, by Auerbach and
Geeher.  A medical textbook (warning) discussing simple and advanced
treatments.

Medicine for Mountaineering, published by the Mountaineers.  A good
intermediate-duration care book, with heavy emphasis on the mountains
and the problems of them.

Medicine for the Outdoors: A Guide to Emergency Medical Procedures
and First Aid   by Paul S. Auerbach, M.D. (revised and updated)
1991 Little Borwn and Company  ISBN 0-316-05931.  400 pages of
information about emergency procedures that laypeople can do
effectively.

The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Treatment, published by Merck.  The
classic diagnostic medical book, heavy on drug treatments rather than
surgical interventions.  A new edition is released every four or five
years.

Outdoor Emergency Care, by Bowman.  The National Ski Patrol emergency
medical text.  More applicable to emergency care in less than urban
situations.

The Physicians' Desk Reference (aka The PDR) 2497 pages Published by
Medical Economics Data Division of Medical Economics Co., Inc. Oradell
NJ  07649  Order by mail: Physicians' Desk Reference Reference P.O. box
10689 Des Moines, IA  50336 Order by fax: (515) 284-6714
This is a good _illustrated_ reference work about prescription drugs.
Could help in identifying any drugs found or procured in a survival
situation. My 1991 copy cost around $50 but since it's published every
year you could probably get last year's free from a friendly doctor or
nurse (they don't usually save the old ones).

Ships Medicine Chest and First Aid at Sea  published by the USPHS for
(mostly) the merchant marine.  Covers prescription drugs (legal and
technical), lists of drugs and material for different sizes ships.  Good
coverage of death, though burial at sea may not be an option for most.
Good disease section (including VD), doesn't assume a bunch of healthy
males such as some of the wilderness books.  The section on getting
medical advise over HF radio from the USPHS may be worth it's weigh in
gold for Hams.

Special Forces Medical Handbook.  This is a reprint of a US Army
training handbook, and covers many medical techniques as they apply to
unconventional operations.  Chapters on sterilizing under field
conditions, and field dentistry and obstetrics are especially good.

Wilderness Medicine 4th ed.  by William  Forgey  MD  covers  many common
medical problems, suggests med's for kits, assumes no doc- tor or EMS is
available.  Best of all, written  for  the  layman. Very good book.

Where there is no Doctor by ?  Originally a manual for Chinese village
health aides, good and modern information for life in a western world,
without all of the resources.

_GARDENING, FOOD GROWING AND FARMING_

Backyard Bonanza...an introduction to intensive gardening. By the
editors of Organic Gardening Magazine, and printed by Rodale.  Short
(<50 pp.) but effective intro to high-yield growing beds. I saw no
mention of ways the investigating varmints can be used to increase the
nutrition value of a gardening effort <g>, but that's Rodale for you

Bardswell, Frances A.  The Herb Garden, with illustrations by the Hon.
Florence Amherst and Isabelle Forrest.  London:  Adam & Charles Black,
1911.  Hard cover, 173 pages, index, tables, paste-in color
illustrations.  $20

Buchman, Dian Dincin.  Herbal Medicine:  The Natural Way to Get Well and
Stay Well.  New York:  Gramercy, 1980.  Hard cover with DJ, 310 pages,
index, drawings, list of resources.  $12

Fox, Helen M.  My Years in My Herb Garden.  New York:  MacMillan, 1953;
first printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, index, very good
condition.  $9

Freeman, Margaret B.  Herbs for the Mediaeval Household, for Cooking,
Healing and Divers Uses.  New York:  The Metropolotian Museum of Art,
1943.  Hard cover, 48 pages, illustrated with drawings.  Excellent
condition.  $9

Gibbons, Euell.  Stalking the Wild Asparagus:  Field Guide Edition.  A
field guide to edible wild plants.  New York: David McKay, 1972;
reprint.  Paper, 303 pages, excellent condition.  $6

Complete Book of Composting by ? (boring, but informative)

Grow it! by Richard Langer

The Four-Season Harvest by Eliot Coleman.  R. R. Donneley & Sons, 1992

The Bread machine Cookbook IV (Whole grains & natural sugars) by Donna
German Bristol Publishing, 1992

Growing Food in Solar Greenhouses by Delores Wolfe (all the folks up
North)

Kadans, Joseph M.  Modern Encyclopedia of Herbs:  A comprehensive,
practical, up-to-date reference work covering hundreds of herbs:  common
names, cooking uses, botanical names, cosmetic uses, growing conditions,
medical uses.  New York:  Parker Publishing, 1970.  Hard cover with dust
jacket, 256 pages, cross-referenced index.  Very good condition.  $12

Medsger, Oliver Perry.  Edible Wild Plants.  New York:  McMillan, 1954.
Hard cover with DJ, 323 pages, photos, drawings, index, index of
scientific names.  $14

Miloradovich, Milo.  The Home Garden Book of Herbs & Spices:  The
complete handbook on growing, preparing and preserving all culinary
herbs and spices--for the gardener, the homemaker, and the gourmet.
Garden City, NY:  Doubleday, 1952.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 236
pages, index, list of botanical names.  $10

Pond, Barbara.  A Sampler of Wayside Herbs:  Rediscovering Old Uses For
Familiar wild Plants; illustrated by Edward and Marcia Norman.  New
York: Greenwich House, 1974.  Hard cover with DJ, index, bibliography,
color and B&W drawings and paintings, 126 pages.  Excellent condition.
$14

How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons (great book, I'm currently
using guidelines for my backyard garden)

Ramsbottom, John.  Edible Fungi, with colour plates by Rose Ellenby.
London:  Penguin, 1948.  Hard cover, 45 pages, 24 color plates.
Excellent condition.  $7

Ranson, Florence.  British Herbs.  Harmondsworth:  Penguin Books, 1949.
Paper, 203 pages, illustrated with photos and drawings.  Excellent
condition.   $6

Rohde, Eleanour Sinclair.  Herb Gardening.  London:  Medici Society,
1945; 2nd printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 206 pages, illustrated
with drawings, color & B&W photos.  Very good condition.  $9

Taylor, George M.  British Herbs and Vegetables.  London:  Collins,
1947.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 48 pages, color and B&W photos and
drawings.  $8

The Handbook for Fruit Explorers by Ram Fishman North American Fruit
Explorers, 1986

NAFEX is an organization of people who experiment with fruit trees.  It
has a periodic newsletter which is consists of articles and letter
submitted by members.

Square Foot Gardening by Mel Bartholomew (1981 Rodale Press
0-87857-341-0). Read it.

ABC and XYZ of Beekeeping from the A.I.Root library

The Hive and the Honey Bee from Dadant Publications

How to Make $100000 farming 25 Acres by Wheatly

Successful Small Sacle Farming by Schwenke

The Contrary Farmer by Gene Lodgson

Christmas Trees by Lewis Hill

The Backyard Homestead Mini Farm & Garden Log Book

John Jeavons How to Grow More Vegetables by John Jeavons



_GENERAL SURVIVALISM TOPICS (As opposed to short-term SURVIVAL)_

Basic Preparedness, The Survival Center, Inc., @1994, ISBN 0-9642342-0-3
A good primer on food storage, water storage, very basic medical
supplies, grains etc.

Basic Self-Reliance, It is written as an instructors manual to teach
people in underdeveloped countries how to take care of themselves. It
shows how to make a hand powered wahing machine, a water clarifier (not
purifier), an evap. refrigerator, and much more.  It has a great chapter
on worms and and how to treat them, compost piles, and other low/no
technology solutions to basic health in a survival situation.  While
it's geared (I think) to the LDS missionary, it provides good
information in a non-sectarian manner.  Available from the LDS
distribution center, 152 pages, illustrated, spiral bound.  Current
price is $4.60, it'd probably cost another $1.00 to mail.  Check with
your local LDS Church or Ward, or ask an LDS member.

Checklist for Survival, by Tony & Jo-Anne Lesce.  It is the best
scenario and make you think book that I have seen.  It discusses how,
when, and where to prepare, use the black market, hide, defend, flee,
group, loot, ambush, grow food, get safe water, get fuel, obtain
transportation, and forage.

Crisis Preparedness Handbook by Jack A Spigarelli  Resource
Publications:Provo, Ut  1984  ISBN 0-936348-00-3. Covers food,
communications, tools (only 2 pages on guns), transportation, fuel and
water, radiological defence, etc.  The only week section was on guns, it
looked like a brief overview of Tappan, without explaining any of the
logic behind it.  The food storage is over half the book, and starts out
by calculating the ammount of calories you need, and working through the
various foods, both storage (freeze dried, whole grains) as well as
canned goods explaining the recommended ammount of each group.
Information on storing your own, gardening and forging was also
included.  Excellent biblography.

How to Survive in the City and Country, Ragner Benson.  Probally Bensons
best book.  Sections on trapping, generators (diesel, from china),
gardening, building a home, defense, etc.  Good general ideas for people
who can't buy their future.

Living Well on Practically Nothing, Edward H. Romney, @1992, ISBN
0-87364-694-0 A good reference especially if the financial times get
very hard.  Lots of good advise on how to get by with very little money.
Plus if you could save $1000.00 a year using this book just think of the
nice survival items you could buy. :-)

Making the best of Basics (Family Preparedness Handbook) by James
Talmage Stevens published by Peton Corporation PO Box 11925 , Salt lake
City, Utah 84147 distributed ??? Tower Enterprises, 7652 Silver Lake
Drive, Salt Lake , Utah, 84121

Preparing for Emergencies, by James. M. McKeever.  ISBN 0-86694-125-8
1993 (in print, unlke many other recommended books) Synopsis:  A general
How-to-prepare book with a twist:  each chapter is prioritzed with the
most important steps to take in the first few chapters.  E.g., Ch.1
Disasters, Ch.2 Water, Ch.3 Heat/Light, Ch.4 First Aid...  I.e. if
you're only going to do one thing, store water, two things, water &
heat/light, etc.

The Sense of Survival, A Comprehensive Guide to Survival, by
J. Allan South. The publisher is so small it is hard to order.  It is
carried by: Emergency Essentials, 165 S. Mountain Way Drive, Orem, UT
84058-5119  phone 1-800-999-1863 my favorite mail order co. The book is
$14.95 + $6 shipping for any order.

Survival with Style, Bradford Angier (also Field Guide to Edible Wild
Plants, same author).  No nonsense outdoor survival and woodcraft, from
an old timer who has done it. Much more indepth than other texts, and
had good, but brief coverage of firearms (the result of a slight
American (North and South) bias).

Tappan on Survival, by Mel Tappan. Janus Press, Rogue River, Or.  A
collection of the late Mr. Tappans articles in various magazines.

"Village Technology Handbook", by VITA (Volunteers in Technical
Asssitance), ISBN  086619-275-1


_HOMESTEADING_ How to create a home away from civilization

Anything written by Bradford Angier.  Should be available in libraries
or used book stores.

Country Blacksmithing by Charles McRaven. This is a very practical guide
to metalworking with limited equipment. There's a very complete, and
accurate, section on tempering steels.

Five Acres and Independence by M.G. Kains. It's a handbook for small
farm management.  It describes cropping methods, plants, and farming
techniques for small farms (5 acres or less).

The Foxfire Books (all of them).  Sorting the wheat from the chaff, lots
of good information on basic homesteading skills.

How to Survive Without a Salary by Charles Long Horizon Publishing, 1981

The Modern Homestead Manual, by Thomsen and Freshwater, ISBN
0-9625960-4-3, 215 pages.  Discusses the whys, hows and whens of moving
to the country, covering topics that other books have missed.

Practical Blacksmithing, by M.T. Richardson. This is a classic from the
turn of the century. If you are interested in old methods, this is a
must read.



_INSPIRATIONAL BOOKS (non-fiction)

Early Man And The Ocean, by Thor Heyerdahl. That's right, the guy who
sailed the seas in heaps of balsa and bunches of reeds. This is a
retrospective and contemplative look at his life's obsession,
understanding the ways humans traveled abroad during our dim prehistory.

Give your Heart to the Hawks by Winfred Blevins Great book based on the
factual adventures of the mountian men. Good account of Hugh Grant ( not
sure of the name ) being mauled by a Grizzly bear, left for dead by his
companions, including a young Jim Bridger, and not only making his way
back to the base camp, but then pursuing his false comrades for revenge!

The Raft by Robert Trumbull.  Three USN Aircrew navigate their raft 34
days to a landfall. Info on desperation navigation, finding food and
water at sea, and how to turn a Model 1911A1 into a better hammer when
it's going to rust solid anyway.

Survival in Auschwitz, by Primo Levi.  Learn the importance of attitude
in survival; those who kept hope alive in their hearts were far more
likely to make it through--as well as being able to think quick and
adapt.

Shackleton's Valiant Voyage by Alfred Lansing.  Antartic explorers lose
their ship in pack ice after a year of wating no rescue. Three (of the
28) sail a boat from the edge of the ice to South Georgia and make first
crossing of island mountain range. All survive.

Trapped at Pearl Harbor by Stephen Bower Young.  What to do when your
battle ship turns over?  Well, don't give up is a good start.

The Tracker, as told by William Jon Watkins.  Stories of his learning
and usage of survival techniques and tracking

The Search, Tom Brown with William Owen.  Same as above, but continued

Granfather, Tom Brown.  Account of Life of his Teacher, a South Lippan
Apache Scout. Many survival stories

Nature Philosophy Books by Tom Brown: The Vision The Quest The Journey
        Awakening Spirits

     Newt Gingrich's recommended reading list:

     Alvin and Heidi Toffler, authors of "Future Shock" and "The Third
     Wave."

     Federalist  Papers,  posted to political groups on the net.

     Toqueville  Travels  and Democracy in America

     The Declaration of Independence - Posted to the net

     The Constitution of the United States of America - Posted to the
     net

     Druckers  "Effective Executive,

     Demmings "Concepts  of  Quality

     Progress  and  Freedom  Foundation's  report on  Alvin Toffler's
      works

     Quote of Newt recommending the Founders in general:
             "In  the  other  direction  I  suggest  to  them, immerse
             yourself  in  the  Founding  Fathers. These people thought
             a long time about the nature of  being human,  about the
             problems  of power,  about  how to organize a free society
             so it could sustain freedom. And if you can combine the
             two, you can begin to  create an  opportunity  for  every
             American to participate in ways that will prove to be quite
             remarkable."   -- Newt Gingrich

     The Ruling Class: Inside the Imperial Congress_ (Eric Felten,
Heritage Foundation, 1993).  It's a fascinating account of how Congress
has abrogated its responsibility to write rational and reasonable laws,
how it sidesteps accountability for its actions, and how it has turned
itself into an incumbency machine.


_MISCELLANY_

A serious dictionary of your favorite language.

The Book of Outdoor Lore, by Clyde Ormond.  A great book full of
survival skills, equipment needed (nothing high-tech: this book is from
the 1950's), edible plants and animals and how to gather/hunt/prepare
them, etc. Even includes making and using primitive weapons (e.g., a
hunting sling).

A Bouncer's Guide to Barroom Brawling by Peyton Quinn. Hand to hand
stuff, mostly unarmed, a bit of weapons, hardly adresses guns at all,
but what it does cover, it covers well, especially the mental, avoidance
of the "machismo bullshit" effect, etc.

Care and Use of Individual Clothing and Equipment, Army Field Manual
21-15.  How to use basic field gear.

Cold comfort : keeping warm in the outdoors / Glenn Randall. New York,
NY : Lyons & Burford, c1987. ISBN 0941130460 (pbk.) : $9.95.  An
excellent discussion of how to stay warm.

Everyone's Knife Bible by Don Paul. Very interesting book.

The Farmer's Dog, by John Holmes Popular Dogs Publishing, 1984

Field Hygiene and Sanitation, Army Field Manual 21-10/Air Force Manual
161-10.  Basic field sanitation techniques.

How to hide almost anything, by Krotz.  Ideas about hiding small items
in your home, in false panels, cabinet fronts, etc.

How to Shit in the Woods, by Kathleen Meyer.  The name says it all.

Improvised Munitions Handbook, TM 31-210, Department of the Army
Technical Manual, 1969.  The how to do it, including:  9mm pipe pistol,
pipe shotgun, fertilizer an-al explosive, improvised black powder,
reuseable primer, pipe bombs, fuse, gasoline gelled with animal blood,
and many others.

The Modern Gunsmith (2 volumes) (c. 1930).  It discusses many topics,
including machining, forging and tempering (complete with a full-color
"color chart" for tempering; gives approximate temperatures for the
various colors, and the uses of such tools).  If you can find this book,
it's probably worth whatever you have to pay for it.

Modern Weapons Caching, by Ragnar Benson.  How to long-term store most
anything.

The Morrow Guide to Knots, Bigon and Regazzoni.  Lots of different
knots, how and when to tie them.

The Official Boy Scout Fieldbook - A must-have, especially the older
versions.

The Official Boy Scout Handbook - A classic, both the current edition
and especially older versions

Pocket Ref, Thomas J. Glover, Sequoia Publishing, 1989 ISBN #
0-9622359-0-3.  A pocket-sized book full of potentially useful
information about machining, wood, building, electronics and computers,
Gasses, and all sorts of other stuff.  Highly recommended - this book is
one that I keep loosing, I should buy several copies and keep them in my
toolbox, desk, at work, and in my briefcase.

The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening, by John Juranitch Warner Books 1985
ISBN 0-446-38002-4 (USA) (0-446-38003-2 Canada) 8" x 9 1/4" 145 ppg.
paper  ($12.50, 13.50 in Can. - as of 1985) Razor-Edge Systems, Inc.  PO
Box 150, Ely, Minnesota 55731. 218 365 6419, 218 365 5360 (fax), 800 541
1458 (orders.) The book (item BK10) is $12.50 plus $4 shipping. An
excellent book on sharpening knives, axes, razors, etc.

Ropes, Knots and Slings for Climbers, by Walt Wheelock.  If your life is
dangling by a rope, lets make sure the knot is tied correctly.

US Army Special Forces Caching Techniques.  A reprint of a US Army
Manual from Desert Publications, P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751
Brief but thorough discussion of how to hide things, including
techniques that I'd never considered like anchoring them underwater. One
small criticism, the chapter on burying lists the tools to have, a
shovel might also be useful!

The Survivor, Volumes 1-4 by Kurt Saxon.  Old time techniques.

Tracking, a Blueprint for learning how, by Jack Kearney.  How to follow
people's and animals tracks, and by exclusion, how to avoid being
tracked.

Urban Combat, a reprint of a US Army Manual, from Desert Publications,
P.O. Box 1751 El Dorado, AR  71731-1751 Information on current doctrine
for combat in urban areas, how to select and defend urban locations and
considerations of standard military weapons.

Vehicle Recovery Operations, Army Field Manual 21-22.  How to get
unstuck, also has good information about moving large heavy objects with
things found at hand.

Shelter, Shelter Pubs. 1973, Ten Speed Press. A historical, cultural
and practical perspective of shelter designs from around the world.
Also the aspects of water, food and waste (human, animal, food)
managment.  What to do with food and animal waste?  Some can be used for
compost. To my knowledge carnivorous waste is no good (food or fecal,
check me on this people).

The Yankee Magazine Book of Forgotten Arts.  Bacon, Richard M. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1978.   Hard cover, 217 pages.  Covers such topics as
cooking on a wood stove, building a smokehouse, using root cellars,
keeping a family cow, working with a draft horse, creating dyes from
common plants, making soap, wooden toys, paint, painting colonial
patterned floors, numerous others. .

Working at Woodworking by Jim Topin

Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Identifying Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley

Furniture Design by Seth Stem

The Workshop Book by Scott Landis

The Workbench Book by Scott Landis

Finding and Buying Your Place in the Country by Les Scher

How to Get Off the Fast Track by M.M Kirsch

Tom Brown's Field Guides to:
     City and Suburban Survival
     The Forgotten Wilderness
     Wilderness Survival
     Living with the Earth
     Nature
     Observation and Tracking
     Nature and Survival for Children
     Wild Edible and Medicinal Plants

Peterson's Field Guide to Animal Tracks


_NAVIGATION, MAPS AND COMPASS, STARS_

Atlas Of The Night Sky, Storm Dunlop and Wil Tirion. Before you can make
much use of the stars, for timekeeping or navigation, you have to be
able to find and identify the twinkly things. Fine whole-sky coverage,
to magnitude 6, epoch 2000.0, and the appealingly clear Tirion celestial
cartography.

Be Expert with Map and Compass, Bjorn Kjellstrom.  The classic on using
orienteering style compasses.

Delorme's Atlas and Gazetteer of individual states.  Currently available
for most Western States (except Nevada and New Mexico,  and most of the
Eastern States) these books combine topographic map information from the
USGS surveys and more current information about roads and other man-made
structures into folio-sized mapbooks in full color.  Scale is 1:250,000
or so (about 1 inch=4 miles) for Arizona, and 1:150,000 for California,
other states may vary.  A good, accurate and compact way of getting
information about areas of interest to you.

Finding Your Way On Land Or Sea Reading Nature's Maps, by Harold Gatty.
Formerly published, in Australia, as Nature Is Your Guide. The best
account extant of 'natural' navigation, that is, relying on observation
and deduction instead of instrumentation. Waves and sand dunes, birds
and insects, even the habits of plants are covered. Also worth reading
is his advice for staying oriented in strange towns. Includes
worthwhile, simplified  directions for determining direction from the
sun and stars and (local) time from the stars, also some highly
thought-provoking remarks on Polynesian celestial technique.

Goode's World Atlas, Rand McNally Co. Good climate, resource and
population maps; maps of ocean winds and currents, tabulated latitudes
and longitudes of population centers.

Topographic Symbols, Army Field Manual 21-31.  What the symbols on maps
mean.  Also applies to USGS topographic maps.

Map Reading, Army Field Manual 21-26.  How to use (correctly) military
style lensatic compasses, and the best discussion of military grid
systems such as UTM (Universal Transverse Mercator).

Wilderness Route Finder, by Calvin Rutstrum.  One of the few
non-military books discussing how to use the military style lensatic
compass, good information on general routefinding.



_NUCLEAR WAR AND RADIOLOGICAL DEFENSE PREPARATIONS_

The Chernobyl Syndrome (and how to survive it), by Dean Ing copyright
1988 Baen Books ISBN:  0-671-65345-8 paperback, 330 pages.  More good
information from Ing.

Life after Doomsday, Bruce Clayton.  Good information on selecting a
location to "retreat" in, skills and tools.  Also excellent advise on
nuclear war planning and preparation.

Nuclear War Survival Skills, by Cresson Kearny.  Do it yourself fallout
shelters, radiation detection information, etc.  If you think the chance
of nuclear attack or incident is a threat, you should certainly have
this book.

For people who are looking for a source for Cresson Kearny's Nuclear War
Survival Skills, you can write to the following.
     The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine
     P.O. Box 1279
     Cave Junction, Oregon 97523

Pulling Through, by Dean Ing.  While this is actually a fictional book,
I've included it here because of the depth and accuracy of the scenario
that he presents, as well as the reprints of Nuclear War Survival
Skills, on building a fallout meter.  Also good information on expedient
shelter construction, but I'd still recommend Kearny for a detailed
discussion.

Radiological Defense Manual, CPG 2-6.2, Defense Civil Preparedness
Agency.  Information on fallout patterns and protection.

Risks and Hazards: A State by State Guide", Federal Emergency Management
Agency, P.O.Box 70274, Washington, DC  20024, (1990, publication #
FEMA-196). Contains maps for each state charting likely nuclear targets
and damage zones surrounding them.  Also has smaller maps of each state
showing location of nuclear power plants and areas subject to
earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.  Last section in- cludes
suggestions and checklists for dealing with the various kinds of
diasters.

Surviving Doomsday by C. Bruce Sibley.  Information-rich, with a
British/European flavor.


_PRIMITIVE SURVIVAL SKILLS AND TECHNIQUES_

Bushcraft, by R. Graves.  Written by a trainer of the Australian SAS,
survival manual Australian style, with a superb array of improvised
traps and snares, including fish traps. Limited amount of plant
information, and that mainly useful to Australians, but some universally
applicable good things to know, like identifying cyanide and oxylates by
flavor (*small* taste).

Outdoor Survival Skills, by Larry Dean Olsen. A classic manual
emphasizing American Indian techniques. Has information on making your
own primitive tools and weapons, shelters and clothing. A particularly
good feature is that dozens of edible or medicinal plants are described,
and illustrated using sharply focused color photos. All are plants found
in the American West--Olsen works out of BYU-- but many of them have
more general distribution.


_POWER GENERATION_

The Complete Battery Book Richard A Perez Tab Books Inc. Blue Ridge
Summit, PA 17214 ISBN 0-8306-1757-4 (paperback) 185 pages, illustrated.
Written for the layman.  Talks about What is a battery, lead acid,
ni-cad, edison cells, primary cells, methods and machines to charge,
using batteries effectively, Inverters, Energy management, and new
battery technologies (the book was written in 1985), formulae and
conversion factors. A great book.  Will teach you the basics of
batteries.

An Introduction to Solar Energy for Scientists and Engineers, Sol Wieder
publisher: Krieger ISBN: 0-89464-444-0 1992, a reprint of the 1982
edition 316 pages $57.50.

Survival Scrapbook #3 ENERGY by Stefan A. Szczelkun ISBN 0-8052-0449-0.
This is a good book on basic ways to use/make energy from a variety of
sources including sections on Solar, Wind, Fires, Water, Heat,
Electricity generation, Animal power, and Meditation.  This book has a
very good section on bio-fuels especially the extraction of methane from
wastes.

Stoner, Carol Hupping, ed.  Producing Your Own Power:  How to Make
Nature's Energy Sources Work For You.  Emmaus PA: Rodale Press, 1974.


     _BIOFUELS_

Automotive Engineering Publications.  Convert your car to run on alcohol
fuel.  Minneapolis, Minn. : Burgess Pub. Co., c1980.  121 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Alcohol motor fuel cookbook.  Cornville,
Ariz. : Desert Publications, c1979.  vi, 140 p.

Brown, Michael Halsey.  Brown's Second alcohol fuel cookbook.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : TAB Books, 1981, 303 p.

Carley, Larry W.  How to make your own alcohol fuels / 2nd ed.  Blue
Ridge Summit, Pa. : Tab Books, c1981.  279 p.

Crombie, Lance.  Making alcohol fuel : recipe & procedure.  Minneapolis,
Minn. : Rutan Pub., c1979.  115, {3} p.

Drane, Keat B.  Convert your car to alcohol.  Louisville, Ky. : Love
Street Books, c1980.  60 p.

Hamn, Tom.  Moonshine motorfuel : practical fuel-alcohol handbook : how
to make it, how to use it.  Fruita, CO : T. Hamn, c1992.  81 leaves
(approx 162 p.)

Lincoln, John Ware.  Driving without gas.  Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way
Pub., c1980.  x, 150 p.

Mathewson, Stephen W.  The manual for the home and farm production of
alcohol fuel.  Berkeley, Calif. : Ten Speed Press, c1980.  xii, 208 p.

McCoy, Ozzie.  Making moonshine fuel.  Louisville, Ky. : Love Street
Books, c1981.  95 p.

The Mother earth news alcohol fuel handbook.  Hendersonville, N.C. :
Mother Earth News, c1980.  120 p.

Nellis, Micki.  Makin' it on the farm : alcohol fuel is the road to
independence.  Iredell, Tex. : American Agriculture News

Ross, James R.  Fuel alcohol, how to make it, how to use it.  New York :
St. Martin's Press, c1981.  xv, 176 p.

Stetson, Fred.  Making your own motor fuel, with home and farm alcohol
stills. Charlotte, Vt. : Garden Way Pub., c1980.  v, 186 p.

Vehicle modification for alcohol use.  Available from National Technical
Information Service, 1981.

Wortham, Jim.  Forget the gas pumps--make your own fuel.  Louisville,
Ky. : Love Street Books, c1979.  80 p.



_RADIOS AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES_

Radios that Work for Free" by K.E. Edwards, published by Hope and Allen
Publishing Company, P.O. Box 926, Grants Pass, Oregon, 97526. ISBN
0-934264-02-3.

Visual Signals, Army Field Manual 21-60.  Standardized hand and
non-spoken signals.


_SURVIVAL (Short term, as opposed to GENERAL SURVIVALISM)_

Aircrew Survival, Air Force Manual 64-5, 1 Sept 85.  A pocket sized book
on immediate survival skills.

Search and Rescue - Survival Training, Air Force Regulation 64-4.  The
larger, full sized textbook for survival.

The Survival Book, by Nesbit.  Good General Survival techniques.

Survival Skills of the N. American indians by Peter Goodman

J. Wiseman, 'SAS Survival Handbook, 1986'. Despite that the book is
written by a Special Air Service survival trainer and named after SAS
(UK military elite troop), the book is purely civilian. A modern book.
Covers many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak on all
(eg. winter survival).

Survival, US Army Field Manual 21-76 ??, 1970. A bit outdated. Attempts
to cover very many situations and climate zones, and is thus a bit weak
on all.

Individual operations and survival in cold weather areas' (?), US Army
Training Circular TC-??, 1986 ?. Small booklet on basic level.


K. Vainio et al. 'Miten selvian luonnossa', WSOY, 1983. 239p. Finnish.
Written by foremost Finnish survival experts and used on their survival
course. Reflects military practice. Requires some initial knowledge as
descriptions are brief. Excellent.

Handbok overlevnad, Armen, 1988. 228p. Swedish. Well illustrated,
pedagogic, Swedish mil survival handbook. Rather low initial level
required. Particularily strong on plants, well researched. Snow shelters
could be better imo. Excellent.

O. Aulio, 'Suuri retkeilykirja', Gummerus 1990. 567p. Finnish. A
hiking/wandering handbook with wide coverage. Lots of information,
including peace time survival. Some of the information has been taken
directly from other refs. possibly without evaluation by the author. No
plant usage described. Excellent.

V. Karanko, 'Pelastustoiminta vaaratilanteissa', Otava, 1976. 359p.
Finnish. Civil protection in peace, crisis and some war time situations.
Much is for organizing resque operations. Somewhat outdated. Wilderness
survival is not discussed except working of SAR. Good.

* S. Johansson, 'Spardressyr' Spektra, 1986. 224p. Swedish. Training
course for tracking dogs. Training and function of search, rapport,
protection and sled dogs are also covered briefly. Good.



                 Books with Survival Themes (Fictional)

Footfall, by Jerry Pournelle.  Alien's similar to elephants invade the
earth.  A good deal of how to survive in urban areas without the
infrastructure we would normally have.

Lucifer's Hammer, by Pournelle.  A comet strikes the earth, many
survival skills and scenes.  Also deals with canibalism.

Tunnel in the Sky, by Heinlein.  Survival in an unexpected, long term
situation.

Sixth Column, by Heinlein.  Survival after enemy invasion of the US.

Farnham's Freehold, by Heinlein.  One mans preparation and success in
surviving nuclear war.

Puling Though, by Dean Ing.  Post nuclear war scenario, Mr. Ing manages
to discuss a wide variety of pertinent survival skills.

The Stand, by Sephen King.  All reports suggest the book is better than
the miniseries on TV was, I haven't read the book, and I didn't watch
the series.  Starts out with a plague killing most people on earth,
turns supernatural towards the end.

Alas Babylon, by Pat Frank.  The first (?) survivalist book.  Nuclear
war survival in rural Florida.

No Blade of Grass, by John Christopher? A plague wipes out all food
grains over most of the earth.  People fleeing London for Wales, also
forming local alliances and groups.

The Sheep Look Up, by John Brunner.  Survival in an ecologically damaged
America.

Stand on Zanzibar, by John Brunner.  Life in an oppressive police state,
within an ecologically damaged world.

Maleville, by Robert Merle.  Post nuclear war survival in rural France.
Interesting social dramas, not too good for survival skills.

Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.  Useful for understanding the people
responsible for the problems.

Wolf & Iron, by Gordon R. Dickson.  Post economic colapse. Lone wanderer
scavanges and learns his way across several states. Finaly sets up as
blacksmith and farmer rancher.

A Canticle for Leibowitz, by  Walter M. Miller.  A fascinating book
about long-term post apocolypse story, about the value of books and
knowledge.

The Postman, by David Brin.  A great book about a traveller in the
medium - long post nuclear war environment, the establishment of local
and regional governments, and the value of a travelling postman to carry
news from one region to another.

Earth Abides by George R Steward.  Pandemic survivors find each other
and build comunities initially based on scavanging.  Inertia causes
little of predisaster technology and culture to be passed on, causing
great anguish to main charater.

Survivors by Terry Nation.  Pneumonic plauge strain spread by air travel
kills off most of the population.  Set in Great Britain, a survivor
group failing under pressure from bad weather and hostile neighbors
migrates to the south of France. Strangely enough Brits will use guns if
they can get them.

The Folk of the Fringe by Orson Scott Card.  Short stories set shortly
after a socital colapse. All stories are about Mormons or converts.

All Fools' Day by Edmund Cooper.  A new type of radation (yuk yuk)
causes most of mankind to commit suicide. The immune are 'creative
artists of all kinds, lunatics, political and reigious fanatics,
prostitutes and pathological animal lovers.' Set in Great Britain.

Harvest of Stars, by Poul Anderson:  America where political correctness
has become a religion and taken over.  One must think ahead and be on
ones toes at all times in dealing with a police state; acting experience
is a plus!

Vandenberg, by Oliver Lange.  Life in a United States occupied by Soviet
(or whatever) troops.  Frightening.

Warday and Nature's End, by Whitley Straub

The Ends of the Circle, by Paul O. Williams

Some Will Not Die, by Algis Budrys.  Post pandemic in New York City Son
of inital main char forms the "Reunification Army" to create the "Second
Republic." Guns guns and more guns and living on 20 year old canned
goods. Still not a bad story.

Only Lovers Left Alive by Dave Wallis.  Set in Britain, virtually
everyone over 19 commits suicide over a 2 year period.  A street gang
rises to the conquest of London metro area but finds it tough going in
the country when the canned good run out.

"Out of the Ashes" series by William Johnstone.  The first is excellent
on establishing attitude and the others each have a few tidbits in them.
His Tri-states concept is developing almost a cult-like following in
some areas.  Most of the later volumes are just pay copy (Is there any
other reason to write?) so you have to wade through a lot of story line
to pick out the good parts.  He writes interesting copy so it isn't a
chore.

Path to Savagery by Robert Edmund Alter.  The world after a minor
nuclear war.  The polar ice caps have melted, flooding the coast lines.
North America is suffering from a drought and millions of people are
dead.  The hero is a "loner" who avoids interacting with the tribes that
most of the survivors have joined.  He has a Thompson sub-machine gun
and the right attitude.

The Castle Keeps by Andrew J Offutt.  American life has gradually gone
to hell in a handbasket, especially in the cities.  Story of a family
that moved to a farm determined to do what it takes to survive and live
well.  My only complaint with this book is that the protagonist uses a
Colt .45 SAA instead of a M1911.    Other than this, he scenes involving
firearms are very well done.

Winters Daughter by Charles Whitmore.  Told in the style of a Norse
Saga, the life of a woman born in Africa just after a nuclear war, to
American and Norse parents. She lives in N. America and Norway, goes
down swinging in a feud in Norway in the best saga tradition.

The Long Loud Silence by Wilson Tucker.  Bio war wipes out USA east of
Mississippi.  The story of an "immune" (all such are carrers). Canablism
is adopted by some survivors.

The day of the triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

"Z for Zachariah" fictional account of a young woman surviving the
aftermath of a nuclear war on her parents farm.  Very weak on science.
She lives in a protected valley, and everything outside the valley is
dead.  Then one day a man shows up who invented a radiation proof suit
with a pushcart (since cars are radioactive).  She hides in the woods,
unsure of what to do.  Finally she shows herself, but not before he
drinks from a radioactive pond.  He gets sick, she helps him, he
eventualy tries to rape her, and she hides again.  It had some good
points, such as hiding her garden, geting fuel from pumps w/o
electricity, and what to do with her dog, since it could be used by the
man to find her.  (reviewer) read it in Jr High school in the school
library, so its at least 13 old, and intended for younger readers.








                       Magazines and Periodicals

American Survival Guide, McMullen & Yee Publishing, 774 South Placentia
Ave. Placentia, CA  92670  (714) 572-2255 Monthly, $26.95 / year.

Backwoods Home Magazine, 1257 Siskiyou Blvd. #213, Ashland, Or  97520
Bi-monthly, $17.95.

Back Home Magazine, Wordsworth Communications, 110 Third Ave. West,
Hendersonville, NC  28792.  Quarterly, $16.00 / year.

Home Power, P.O. Box 520, Ashland, Or  97520.  Bi-monthly, $15.00 /
year.

The Wild Foods Forum, Box 61413, Virginia Beach VA  23462.  Bimonthly,
$15/yr, $2 for sample.



                             Usenet Groups

Groups you might be interested in, besides misc.survivalism
                                             
alt.architecture - alternative building techniques
alt.engr.explosives - for more serious explosives.
alt.energy.renewable
alt.radio.scanner
misc.consumer.housing
misc.emergency-services - Emergency medical and Search and Rescue
misc.rural
rec.firearms
rec.hunting
rec.pets.dogs - for your 4-legged friends
rec.radio.* - all sorts of radios and technology
rec.radio.shortwave
rec.pyrotechnics - if you're interested in things that go boom.



               USENET FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions)

FAQ's that might be of interest.  Some parts have been incorporated
here, but many others have not.

rec.pyrotechnics
rec.backpacking
rec.firearms
rec.radio.shortwave



                           Movies and Videos

The Day of the Triffids, by John Wyndham.  A meteor shower blinds most
of the inhabitants on earth. A group of people who stil have sight fight
against flesh eating plants while the try to survive.

Amerika - TV movie about life in the US following an invasion and
takeover by the Soviet Union.  Interesting in terms of infrastructure
that was no longer present (phone service?) and how a resistance
organization grew.

Testament

Survivors TV series - 38 Episodes based on the Book.

Red Dawn - Soviet backed forces from Nicaragua invade Colorado, high
school students form resistance movement and fight back.

Zulu - British Soldiers in Colonial Africa fight against thousands of
Zulu warriors.  Interesting in terms of command relationships.

Zulu Dawn

Alive - Movie about the survivors of a plane crash in the Andes, who
resort to canibalism.

5 Returned?  About nuclear war in the Los Angeles area.  An identifying
scene of stopping traffic on the freeway by throwing a bucket of
gasoline across it, and setting it afire.  Anyone know what the name
really is?  How about a copy?

-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From decastro@netcom.com Tue Apr 11 21:46:32 EDT 1995
Article: 9277 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Sources.List rev 0.18
Message-ID: <decastroD6n3q6.2Kq@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 00:51:42 GMT
Lines: 796
Sender: decastro@netcom13.netcom.com

                        Sources, rev 0.187


Disclaimer:  Much of the information here is from the FAQ's of other
USENET groups.  I don't know if the companies are still in business, or
if the information about them is accurate.  If something's wrong, let me
know and I'll update this list.  Send updates to decastro@netcom.com.


Changes in revv 0.18:  Added more sources.



Real Goods Catalog, Real Goods Trading Company 966 Mazzoni St Ukiah, Ca
95482 800-762-7325 (orders) 707-468-0301 (tech) 707-468-0301 (FAX)

A.I. Root Company
    P.O. Box 706
    Medina, Ohio 44258
    1-800 BUY ROOT (1-800-289-7668)
    Beekeeping supplies.

A.M. Leonard, Inc.
    6665 Spiker Road
    PO Box 816
    Piqua, Ohio 45356
    Good prices, fast service on nursery supplies.

Alternate Energy Engineering
    PO Box 339
    Redway, Ca 95560
    800-777-6609

Adventure Medical Kits  (first aid supplies)
     Berlekey CA              510 531 9610


Adventure Outfitters  (discounter)
    514 So. College Ave.
    Ft. Collins CO 80524
    303 224 2460
    800 622 4486

Argent
    1-800-426-6258 (US)
    1-800-663-2871 (Canada)
    Ask for their free catalogue and their book catalogue.  They hav
    aquaculture chemicals and equipment, and an extensive selection
    of books.

Austree, Inc
    Pescadero, CA
    1-800-638-1441
    Fast-growing hybrid trees.

Bailey's, Inc.
    44650 Hwy. 101, Box 550
    Laytonville, CA 95454
    Ph: 707-984-6133
    Orders: 800-322-4539
    They've got lots of serious stuff for those who cut wood.  They
    do seem to be reasonably priced."  Dave Sill

Brigade Quartermasters (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     1025 Cobb International Bl    
     Kennesaw GA 30144-4300
     Catalog Order       800-338-4327
     Customer Service    404-428-1234
     FAX  800-829-2999

Brownells Gunsmithing Parts and supplies.
     200 S. Front St.
     Montezuma, IA 50171
     515-623-5401

Burden's Surplus Center
     Nebraska
     1-800-488-3407
     They have lots of 12 V pumps of various types, as well as lots of
     other neat stuff rural types might like. Best of all, they have
     good prices.

Cabela's  (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     812-13th. Ave.
     Sidney NE 69160
	  Catalog Order       800-237-4444
	  Customer Service    800-237-8888
	  FAX                 308-254-2200

CAMPMOR   (Camping-Bike-Backpacking)
     801 route 17 North
     Order Dept. Box 997-H
     Paramus NJ 07653-0997
	  Catalog Order       800-526-4784
	  Customer Service    800-525-4784
		    FAX  20447-5559
     a large catalog, often the best prices.
     One retail store in Paramus.

Caprine Supply
     POB Y, 33001 West 83rd Street,
     DeSoto, KS 66018
     913/585-1191
     Summary:  Good selection of goat equipment.

Central Tractor
     POB 3330, Des Moines, Iowa 50316-3330
     general info, 1-800-247-7508
     Summary:  Good selection of new and used parts for tractors old and
     new. They have lots of local stores, which are fun to shop in
     too. Comments: tractor parts - used: 1-800-247-0128, fax
     515-266-7425, new: 1-800-247-0126, fax 515-266-4229

Chestnut Hill Orchards
     3300 Bee Cave Road, Austin, Texas, 78749
     (512) 477-3020
     Comments: Chestnut hybrids?

Cheyenne Outfitters      (Western)
     P O Box 12013
     Cheyenne  WY 82003-1219
     Catalog Order       800-234-0432
     Customer Service    307-775-7575

Cumberland General Store
      Rt 3 Box 81
      Crossville, TN 38555
      800/334-4640
      Same as Lehman's but bigger selection; e.g. includes buggies and
      buggy parts, horse drawn equipment, blacksmithing tools (though
      these are better bought used), patent medicines, etc.  Catalog is
      $3 (refundable)  "old time general merchandise".  About 270
      pages of "Goods in Endless Variety for Man & Beast".

Dadant and Sons, Inc.
     Hamilton, IL  62341
     (217) 847-3324
     Beekeeping supplies.

Daisy Kingdom  (outdoor fabrics and also patterns)
   134 NW 8th
   Portland, OR
   (503) 222-9033             

Delorme Publishing Co.
     P.O. Box 298,
     Freeport, ME  04032
     (207) 865-4171

Map atlas and gazetteers for many States, combines current topographic
data with updates for man-made structures into a folio-sized full color
map book.

Delta Press  They carry many of the books listed and ship world wide.
Plus, they're smart enough to have an e-mail address!

        P.O. Box 1625
        El Dorado, AR
        1-800-852-4445
        email:deltagrp@eldonet.com

Dillon Precision Products
     7442 E. Butherus Dr
     Scottsdale, Az  85260

     (800) 223 4570 (Sales)
     (800) 762-3845 (Catalog Requests)

Probably the best firearms reloading equipment made, with the best
customer service I've EVER seen.

Don Gleason    (Camping-Backpacking)
     PO Box 87-9 Pearl St.
     Northhampton MA 0106 0087
	  Catalog Order       800-257-0019
	  Customer Service    413-584-4895
		    FAX       413-586-8770
     a line similar to Campmor (Eureka, Northface, Coleman etc.)
     with a few interesting  odds and ends like Eastwing rock tools
     and gold pans, bulk shock cord, a whole page of bulk propane
     fittings and adaptors, and bulk tanks......  They state they
     have a no hassle return policy and 1 yr warranty.  Their retail
     store is located one block south of the intersection of route 5
     and route 9 (Main St.) in Northampton, Mass.  1 mile from exit
     18 of interstate 91, 15 minutes North of exit 4 of the Mass
     Turnpike (West Springfield exit).

Down Home   (sleeping bags)
     west fork road 
     Deadwood, Oregon, 97430  
			 503 964 3012

Dunns     (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     Hwy 57E PO Box 449
     Grand Junction TN 38039
	  Catalog Order       800-223-8667
	  Customer Service    800-367-2940
		    FAX       901-764-6503

Dyna Med  (first-aid supplies and kits, reasonable prices)  
     cust service             800 334 8211 
     orders                   800 854 2706 
     
Early Winters  (Ski-Camping)
     PO Box 4333
     Portland OR 97208-4333
	  Catalog Order       800-458-4438
	  Customer Service    800-821-1286
		    FAX       503-643-1973

Eastern Mountain Sports (EMS) (general backcountry equipment)
			 603 924 9571
     EMS does not have a mail order catalog, but has
     a large number of retail stores in the East. At
     least some of these stores will accept phone orders.
     Sale flyers are mailed to local lists.  Check your
     local phone book.

Eddie Bauer    (Camping-Backpacking)
     Fifth and  Union
     PO Box 3700
     Seattle WA. 98124-3700
	  Catalog Order       800-426-8020 
	  Customer Service    800-426-6253
		    FAX       206-869-4629

EEB

Fair Radio Sales Co.  (Surplus military and other electronic devices,
including radios and telephones)
     P.O. Box 1105
     1016 E. Eureka St.
     Lima OH 45802
     419-223-2196
     419-227-6573
     419-227-1313 24hr Fax.

Feathered Friends  (Camping - Backpacking - Climbing) 
     15161 11th. Avenue
     Seattle WA 98122
	  Catalog Order    206-324-4166 or 441-8229
	  FAX                 206-443-9567
     "Yes Feathered Friends have gone mail order and they are
     stocking a lot of other items that they don't make. The catalog
     sent me was for climbing equipment. It was titled the Haulbag.
     But there sleeping bags and other items were also shown."

Fox Ridge Outfitters     (Camping-Hunting)
     400North Main St.
     PO Box 1700
     Rochester NH 03867
	  Catalog Order       800-243-4570
		    FAX       603-332-5133

Frostline Kits
     2512 W. Independent Avenue            
     Grand Junction, CO  81505-7200
			 800-548-7872
     "They carry pre-cut down kits but also sell uncut fabrics 
     and bulk down and holofil."

Galls, Inc.
      2470 Palumbo Dr.
      P.O. Box 54308,
      Lexington, Ky  40555
      1-800-4777766.

      Mostly Police equipment, good sources for flashlights, EMS and
Firefighting equipment, other odd things.

Gander Mountain, Inc. (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-Backpacking)
     Also ask about their specialty catalogs.
     Box 248 Hwy. W
     Wilmot WI 53192
	  Catalog Order       800-558-9410  
	  Customer Service    800-426-3371
		    FAX       800-533-2828

Gempler's
     P.O. Box 270, 211 Blue Mounds Road,
     Mt. Horeb, WI  53572
     800/382-8473
     Summary:  "Direct Agri Supply Specialists ... serving agriculture,
     horticulture and grounds maintenance"
     Comments: "Your complete direct source for safety and personal
     protection geared to the out-of-doors worker.  Compliance
     reference on EPA's new Worker Protection Standard, "40 CFR
     Part 170." Industrial-grade, hard-to-find maintenance supplies.
     Tires, axles, wheels, tubes, reliners & repair supplies."

Gilfer Shortwave.  Shortwave Radios (especially scanners) and
publications.
     Gilfer Shortwave
     52 Park Ave
     Park Ridge, NJ 07656
     800-Gilfer-1

Gohn Bros.
     P.O. Box 111,
     Middlebury IN  46540-0111
     219-825-2400
     Comments: They have great broadfall pants that last and last, and
     are comfortable as well.

Granite Gear
     Highway 2
     Two Harbors, Minnesota  55616
     Tel. 218 834 6157

Grimm Co Inc
     Box 130,
     Rutland, VT 05701
     802-775-5411
     Summary:  "Everything you could ever need to make maple sugar
     products, both home scale and larger."

Grove Electronics - Shortwave Radios and information
     P.O. Box 98
     300 S. Highway 64 West
     Brasstown, NC 28902-0098


The Green Pepper  (fabrics, including neoprene)
     3918 West First Avenue 
     Eugene, OR  97402
			 (800) 767-5684

Harrowsmith Books
     Camden East,
     Ontario, Canada  K0K 1J0
     800-267-7833, ext. 784
     Source Books - A Compendium of Practical Literature for the Home
     Library

Indiana Camp Supply (general camping, medical)
     Loveland Colorado
	  Phone               303-669-8884
     "A large collection of medical and first aid items for back
     country use    ICS has changed ownership, and isn't in Indiana
     now.  Don't know if anything else has changed).  ICS is also a
     publisher of backcountry-related books."

Keel-Haulers Outfitters       (Kayak,Canoe, Scuba.)
     30940 Lorain Rd.
     N. Olmsted, OH 44070
	  Catalog Order       216-779-4545
     {testimonial to wonderful service and good prices deleted}

Kerr Controls Ltd.
     P.O. Box 1500
     Truro, Nova Scotia
     Canada B2N 5V2
     They make wood-fired boilers and wood-fired warm-air furnaces.
     
Lands End  (general clothing)
     1 Lands'end Lane
     Dept JW
     Dodgeville WI 53594
	  Catalog Order       800-356-4444

Lehman Hardware and Appliances (Non-Electric Catalog, Amish supplier)
     One Lehman Circle,  P.O. Box 41 Kidron, Ohio  44636
     Catalog Order 216-857-5757 FAX 216-857-5785

Cast iron cookware,oil/kerosene lamps, kerosene/LP refrigerators and
freezers, wood cooking stoves, pumps (pump heads, cylinders, drop-pipe,
pump rods), ram pumps, water filters, dutch ovens, peelers/pitters,
dryers/canners/juicers/presses, composting toilets, and all sorts of
tools and farm implements that an Amish farmer would use.

Leisure Outlet      (Packs, Bags, Tents )
     421 Soquel Av
     Santa Cruz CA 95062
     Catalog Order  800-322-1460
     Customer Service    408-335-7657
     FAX       408-457-2682 / 457-0888

L.L. Bean (Camping-Hunting-Fishing-First Aid-Backpacking)
     Freeport ME 04033
	  Catalog Order       800-221-4221
	  Customer Service    800-341-4341
     Ask about their specialty catalogs.  
     Low shipping fee.  good customer satisfaction reputation; their
     retail store is a "must-see" when in Maine.  Also, if you are
     in the area: the LLBean closeout store on Rt. 16 in North
     Conway, NH.  Very good prices stock from discontinued lines
     and, I believe, on seconds and returns.  I've never seen this
     outlet advertised.


Major Suplus & Survival
     435 W. Alondra Bl.
     Gardena CA. 90248
     Catalog Order (LA area)  310-324-8855
     Catalog Order       800-441-8855
     Customer Service  FAX  310-324-6909

Mass *Army* Navy* Store (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     15 Fordham Rd.
     Boston MA 02134
	  Catalog Order       800-343-7749
	  Customer Service    617-783-1250
	  FAX                 617-254-6607

MCA Sports (Cartridge converters - see Tappans Survival Guns)
     P.O. Box 8868
     Palm Springs, CA 92263
     619-770-2005

Mid-States Livestock Supplies
     800/841-9665
     Summary:  Sheep supplies.

Moore Medical, Ask for the EMS catalog            
			 800 234 1464
     "Moore carries many medical supplies found on a BLS ambulance
     at low to reasonable prices.  A few other accessories, but not
     extensive."  (jdeifik@isi.edu)

Micro Bio-medics [otherwise known as MBM]
     Supplies and equipment for sports medicine, first aid, EMS, and
     school nurses.

     MBM, Inc. 717 South Third Ave Mt. Vernon, NY
	  800-431-2743 914-699-1700 914-699-1759 FAX

     MBM, Inc. 8930 Western Way, Suite 5 Jacksonville, FL 32256
	  800-345-9883 904-363-1396

     MBM - Arcade First Aid Division
     211 Harbor Way South San Francisco, CA  94080 800-241-6555
     415-589-6037 415-589-0812 FAX
	       
Mountain Equipment Co-op. 
     Mail Order Store    
     1665 W. 3rd Ave
     Vancouver, BC V6J 1K1
	  Catalog Order (US & Canada)800-663-2667 
	  Local or International   604-732-1537
		    FAX       604-736483 
     (Canada's answer to REI) $5.00 lifetime membership, 
     their own brand of clothing and packs (and other 
     things)  Retail stores:
	  Vancouver Store     (604)872-7858
	  428 West 8th Ave
	  Vancouver, BC V5Y 1N9

	  Calgary Store       (403)269-2420
	  1009-4th Ave S.W.
	  Calgary, AB T2P 0K8

	  Toronto Store       (416)363-0122
	  35 Front St. East
	  Toronto, ON M5E 1B3

	  Ottawa Store        (613)745-1094
	  5B Beechwood St.
	  Ottawa, ON K1M 1M2

Mountain Mend   (backcountry fabrics)
	  1580 Canyon
	  Boulder, CO 
		      (303) 443-1925

Narain's Outdoor Equipment          (Gore-tex)
     in Berkeley next door to REI
		    415 527-2509

NASCO
     800/558-9595
     A Wide variety of farm and ranch implements, and some interesting
     training simulators.  Also sell dart guns for administering drugs
     to animals.

Native Seeds/SEARCH
P.O. Box 4865
Albuquerque, NM 87196
(505) 268-9233

 -or-

Native Seeds/SEARCH
2509 N. Campbell Ave.
No. 235
Tucson, AZ 85719
(602) 327-9123


Nexco
     Box 13081
     Ogden, UT 84412-3081
     (800) 597-4743
     Fax: 801 394-5863
     E-mail Snexco@delphi.com
     Sells Military, Police, Survival, Camping  and  Emergency  items.
     They test and use all items before putting them in catalog.  The
     prices seem reasonable, and they have some interesting clothing
     items not usually seen.  They also have personal body armor.

     Also modern and smart enough to have net access!

NITRO-PAK                     213 802 0099
     13243 Rosecrans Avenue 
     Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670-4940
     first aid supplies ($5 catalog)    
	  
The North Face Factory Outlet store     
     1238 5th St. 
     Berkeley CA 94710
     510 526 3530   800 388 7998
     Medford Outlet Center
     303 County Road 12, S.W.
     Medford, MN 55049
     (ph) 507-455-3120
     (fax) 507-455-3739

Northern Hydraulics
    P.O. Box 1499
    Burnsville, MN 55337-0499
    800-533-5545  or 612-894-8310  (fax) 612-894-0003
    Generators, Gasoline Engines, and miscellaneous Good Stuff

Off Line -  alternative energy equipment
     P.O. Box 231
     North Fork, CA 93643
     (209) 877-7080

Omaha Vaccine Company
     1-800-367-4444
     Veterinary vaccines and supplies.

Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics  (208)466-1602
     16195 Latah Drive
     Nampa, ID  83651
     "I've only dealt with them once, but they were very helpful,
     and they have anything you might dream of in terms of
     outdoor fabrics (cordura, packcloth, lycra, neoprene,
     goretex, etc.)"

Out N Back
     PO Box 1279
     Provo, UT 84603
     801-224-0454
     Toll Free 800-533-7415

Pacific Yurts, Inc.
     77456 Hwy 99S
     Cottage Grove, OR 97424
     (503) 942-9435 voice
     (503) 942-0508 fax
     (800) 944-0240 voice

Paladin Press
     P.O. Box 1307
     Boulder, CO  80306
     1-800-3922400
     The catalog alone is an education.  Books on almost anything, from
     making firearms to explosives, finding people and not being found,
     etc.

Peaceful Valley Farm Supply
     11173 Peaceful Valley Rd,
     Nevada City, CA 95959
     916/265-FARM
     Comments: Pricey but includes some things that are hard to find.

Plants of the Southwest
     Agua Fria
     Rt 6 Box 11A
     Santa Fe, NM 87505
     (800) 788-SEED (Orders only, 24 hrs per day, US20 minimum) (505)
     471-2212 (9AM to 5 PM, M-F) Mail order (505) 344-8830 Albuquerque
     store (505) 428-8888 Sata Fe store
     Plants of the Southwest has a great catalog (for US3.50) containing
     native seeds for vegetables, grasses (native, low water, low growing),
     flowers, shrubs, and trees.  This aint a Burbee catalog!

PFI Western Store    (Western)
     2743 W Chestnut Exp
     Springfield MO 65802
	  Catalog Order       800-284-8191
	  Customer Service    800-284-8191
	       
Piragis Northwoods Outfitters (Canoe Camping)
     105B North Central Ave. 
     Ely MN 55731
	  Catalog Order       800-223-6565
     general catalog plus unique Boundary Waters items - books,
     maps, etc.  They are also a complete outfitter, with all sorts
     of rental equipment.  They rent light kevlar Wenonah canoes.

Ponderosa Products,
     2467 Ballantyne Lane,
     Eagle, ID  83616
     208 /939-1513
     ask for "CAREY" MRE's, Camping and Military Equipment.

Premier
     Box 89, Washington,
     Ia 52353
     800/282-6631
     Summary:  Electric and standard fencing.

Quest Outfitters              (800)359-6931
     2590 17th St. Suite B
     Sarasota, FL 34234
     "outdoor fabrics as well as zippers, threads, needles, liners,
     fills, and patterns."

Ramsey Outdoor
	  Catalog Order       201-261-5000
	  Customer Service    800-526-7436 

The Rainshed   (outdoor fabrics)   (503)753-8900
     707 NW 11th
     Corvallis, OR 97330
     "outdoor fabrics as well as zippers, threads, needles, liners,
     fills, and patterns." "We just ordered a large quantity of
     fabric from Rainshed after considering both them and several
     others including Quest Outfitters.  The Rainshed was anywhere
     from $2 to $8 cheaper per yard.  The Rainshed also has serves
     businesses with a tax id number with a discounted wholesale
     rate and no minium on fabrics. (12/92)"
     jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu)

Recreational Equipment Inc. REI (Camping-climbing-Backpacking-Bike-Ski)
     45th. Street East
     Summer WA 98352-0001
	  Catalog Order       800-426-4840
	  Customer Service    800-828-5533
		    FAX       206-891-2523
     "member-owned co-op;  some unique items including their own line
     of tents and clothing and lots of technical rock climbing
     equipment.  This is a membership-owned co-op.   Members get an
     annual 5% to 10% rebate on purchases.  Life membership $10.00
     Retail stores mostly in large urban areas, also mail order.  Highly
     recommended - their own line is always a good value."


Red Power
     Box 277,
     Battle Creek, IA  51006
     712/365-4873
     Summary:  International Harvester Co. information.

Safety Tech Co.
     Middleburg, FL
     904/282-1200
     Summary:  Sells Permanone tick killer.

Seeds of Change
     POB 15700
     Santa Fe, New Mexico 87506-5700
     1-505-438-8080 phone (9am-5pm MT)
     1-505-438-7052 FAX (24hrs)
     Toll-free catalog request line is
     1-800-957-3337
     Seeds cost $1.99 for each packet, volume and other discounts may
     apply.

Sequel    (clothing)
     PO Box 3185 
     98 Everett St
     Durango CO 81302-3185    
     303 385 4660

Sheepman Supply
     800/336-3005

Sierra Supply (MRE's, military supplies and equipment)
     P.O. Box 1390
     Durango, CO 81301
     303-259-1822

Sierra-Riteway Mfg. Co.
     1680 Country Club Road
     Harrisonburg, VA 22801
     They make wood/coal-fired and wood/coal/oil or wood/coal/gas
     fired boilers.

Simpler Life Emergency Provisions
     1320 Johnson Dr./Industry CA 91745
     818.961.8858

Solar Electric Engineering, Inc
     175 Cascade Court
     Rohnert Park, CA 94928
     707-586-1987 fax: 707 586-0690
     Catalog $3.00 solar electric and hot water systems.

Shomer-tec
     Box 28070
     Bellingham, Washington 98228
     Phone: (360)733-6214
     Interesting specialty ammunition items for law enforcement and others.

Sierra Trading Post (Camping-Fishing-Backpacking)
     5025 Campstool Rd.
     Cheyenne WY 82007
     Catalog Order       307-775-8000
     Customer Service
     FAX       307-775-8088

The Sportsman's Guide (Hunting-Military-Backpacking)
     965 Decatur Ave. North
     Golden Valley Minnesota 55427-4398
     Catalog Order       800-888-3006
     Customer Service    800-888-5222
     FAX  800-333-6933


Screaming Eagle     (Hunting)
     PO Box 4507
     Missoula Montana 59806
     Catalog Order       800-458-2017
     Customer Service    406-543-1114

Smokey Mountain Knife Works   (Knife)
     PO Box 4430 
     Sevierville TN 37864-4430
	  Catalog Order       800-259-1306 
	  Customer Service    800-327-5871
		    FAX  615-429-0182   

Storey's Hard-to-Find Books for Country Living
     Schoolhouse Rd
     Pownal, VT 05261
     800-827-8673  Canada: 800-445-3906
     Customer assistance 413-664-7195
     Everything from "The Craft of Smocking" to "Be your Own Chimney
     Sweep"

Southern States Catalog Services
     P.O. Box 26234
     Richmond, VA 23260

Sunelco, Alternative power supplies
     Sunelco
     100 Skeels St
     P.O. Box 1499
     Hamilton, MT 59840-1499
     (800) 338-6844.

Steven Van Gorden
     PO Box 109,
     Breinigville  PA  18031 Summary:  "Has available a bunch of
     information sheets on a variety of [aquacultural] issues.  Also
     publishes a quarterly newsletter."

The Third Hand ( Bike-Ski  Tools)
     PO Box 212 
     Mt. Shasta CA 96067
     Catalog Order       916-926-2600
     FAX  916-926-2663

Trace Engineering
    5917 195th N.E.
    Arlington, WA 98223
    (206) 435-8826  Power equipment.


USGS Map Sales  (backcountry topo maps)
     Federal Center
     P.O. Box 25286
     Denver, CO   80225
			 303-236-7477

U.S. Plastic Corp.
     1390 Neubrecht Road
     Lima, Ohio 45801
     1(800)537-9724

A variety of durable containers in a wide range of sizes.

VauDe USA ( Clothing-Bags, all types-Tents)
     5311 Western Av  Suite A
     Boulder CO 80301
	  Catalog Order       800-886-8283

Wholesale Veterinary Supply
    POB 2256
    Rockford, IL 61131
    800/435-6940
    Good selection of veterinary supplies at good prices.

Wyoming River Raiders    (Camping, Kayaking, Canoeing and Rafting
     601 Wyoming Blvd
     Casper, WY 82609 
     Catalog Order       800-247-6068


-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From szaw@aol.com Tue Apr 11 21:47:23 EDT 1995
Article: 9241 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!willis.cis.uab.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: szaw@aol.com (SZaw)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: BOOKs
Date: 7 Apr 1995 10:18:56 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3m3hkg$b6f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3m2fl9$123e@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
Reply-To: szaw@aol.com (SZaw)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

No doubt about it--the best survival book out right now is "Nuclear War
Survival Skills."  It could be retitled "Economic Collapse Survival
Skills" and be just as relevant.

Opinions are like rear ends-- every body's got one...


From decastro@netcom.com Tue Apr 11 21:47:37 EDT 1995
Article: 9283 of misc.survivalism
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!decastro
From: decastro@netcom.com (Richard A. De Castro)
Subject: Re: BOOKs
Message-ID: <decastroD6w7GM.7K8@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3m2fl9$123e@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 22:50:46 GMT
Lines: 17
Sender: decastro@netcom8.netcom.com

XCXX64A@prodigy.com (Karen Daspit) writes:

>What is the best survivilist book out right now?

While many of my virtual friends here will (and have) offered an
opinion on this topic, I'd first ask "What is it you want to survive?"

There's no ONE BEST survival book, imho.  And, I've probably read over
250 books on the subject, and have more than 100 in my library.



-- 
============================================================================
decastro@netcom.com      Warning:  I am a trained professional.  No, Really!
Rick N6RCX EMT-A ATP MA  Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly......
Richard A. De Castro -   As long as the Government pretends to protect me,
rickd@primenet.com 	 I'll pretend to feel safe - NOT!
     -Don't Tread On Me!-
============================================================================


From pwatson@utdallas.edu Tue Apr 11 21:48:58 EDT 1995
Article: 9251 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!not-for-mail
From: pwatson@utdallas.edu
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: No Con-Con FAQ
Date: 10 Apr 1995 16:48:26 -0500
Organization: The University of Texas at Dallas
Lines: 685
Message-ID: <3mc93a$29f@utdallas.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: infoserv.utdallas.edu
NNTP-Posting-User: 4394
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Welcome to the No-con-con Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). long version
************************************************************************

To subscribe to no-con-con send mail to: no-con-con-request@webcom.com
This list is maintained by : Howard L. Bloom at pc-man@netaxs.com

The purpose of this list is to identify, expose and counter/defeat any 
efforts to hold a Constitutional Convention (con-con), or, a Conference of 
States (COS).  Discussion of Constitutional issues which pertain to
why a con-con may be called for may also be discussed.  


M A I L I S T    P R O T O C O L

The no-con-con mailist was created for one purpose:

TO PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION FROM A CON CON

     Subscribers to no-con-con share a wide range of belief and value
systems. Hopefully,  debate on unrelated issues will be carried on
outside of the mailist to maximize the "bandwidth"  available to pursue
our goal.

     It is always difficult for those who believe deeply in something
to collaborate with those  who believe just as fervently that those
beliefs are poppycock, but that is exactly what we must  learn to do if
we are going to be successful. No grass roots effort can ever succeed if
individuals refuse to set aside their differences in order to pursue a
common goal.

     When neighbors combine their efforts to put out a house fire
before it destroys the entire  neighborhood, it doesn't matter how the
fire started, and no good can come from refusing to  work alongside
someone who doesn't agree on the cause of the fire.

     We do NOT intend to alienate our fellow firefighters by
ridiculing their beliefs.


******************************************************************************* 
**THE REASON WE ARE OPPOSED TO A CON-CON, OR COS **
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
cduke@csn.org
                                                 January 23, 1995
                                                 DUKE
                                                 (719) 481-9289
                                                 (303) 866-4835

                                By Charles R. Duke
                         Colorado State Senator - District 9

              For some time now there has been a movement afoot in this
         nation for states to call for a Constitutional Convention
         (Con-Con).  To date, 32 states have made a request for a Con-Con
         by passing a joint resolution through their state legislative
         bodies.  Colorado is one of these, having passed Senate Joint
         Memorial 1 in 1978.
              There are many, this writer among them, who believe this
         would be a very serious mistake.  Usually, the Con-Con
         (sometimes called Philadelphia II) is proposed to meet in
         Philadelphia and the document most often suggested to replace
         our present Constitution is the Newstates Constitution, which
         will be the subject of a future column.
              There are three states which have rescinded their request.
         The promoters of the Con-Con, however, contend that passing a
         joint resolution to rescind that state's request does not
         actually alleviate the fact that the request was in fact made.
         It is the same philosophy that says you cannot unring a bell.
              At least one of these three (Nevada) included in their
         rescission resolution the direction to return to the official
         records for 1979, which was the year Nevada adopted their
         request (SJR 8) for a Con-Con, draw a black border around the
         portion of the journal which contained SJR 8, and write the
         words, "Expunged by order of the Assembly this 24th day of June,
         1989", across the face of the record.  The effect of this, which
         passed the Nevada Assembly in 1989, is to actually remove from
         the historical record the request itself.  This should place
         Nevada in a stronger position legally to deny that its request
         for a Con-Con is any longer valid.
              For a Con-Con to happen, it must have been requested by 34
         states.  Depending on your viewpoint concerning rescissions, we
         are either 2 short or 5 short of that moment.  The promoters of
         Philadelphia II have been unable to secure the final two states.
         You will see why when you see more details of the Newstates
         Constitution.
              As the States' Rights Movement gains momentum across
         America, there have been and will continue to be attempts to
         stop or sidetrack the movement.  In general, Philadelphia II
         promoters are moving in the opposite direction from state
         sovereignty.
              A clever but insidious device created by Governor Michael
         Leavitt of Utah last year calls for a Conference of States
         (COS).  This idea was picked up by a lobbying organization
         known as the Council of State Governments (CSG), which may be
         thought of as the ultimate government lobbying agency.  Its
         members, with memberships paid by tax dollars, belong to all
         levels of government, from state to county to city.  Late last
         year, the idea of the COS was endorsed by the National
         Governor's Conference.
              This COS is an extremely dangerous action to take.  An
         officially sanctioned meeting by 38 states has the power, if it
         wishes, to turn itself into a Con-Con by simply passing a
         resolution to that effect.  It derives this power from the Tenth
         Amendment, which fundamentally says that states have any power
         they wish, so long as it is not prohibited by the Constitution.
         The COS differs from other national meetings that might be held
         because the appointment of the delegates and the state
         endorsement of the meeting are by a resolution from your
         legislature, most unusual.
              As further evidence, CSG speaks of the need for
         "structural, long-term changes" to government being needed.  It
         is proposed that COS be held in Philadelphia in the late Summer
         or early Fall of 1995.  Gov. Leavitt's own position paper on the
         COS states that our national government is "outdated and old-
         fashioned."  He states, "It is not suited for the fast-paced,
         high-tech, global marketplace we are entering.  There is a much
         better way."
              In the Colorado general Assembly, we have Senate Joint
         Resolution 9, introduced on January 19, 1995, by Senator Jeff
         Wells, the Majority Leader of the Colorado Senate.  It is
         Colorado's request to participate in the COS.  Our delegation
         would consist of seven members, one from the Governor's office
         and three each appointed by the Speaker of the House and the
         President of the Senate.
              It is said their work will have to be ratified by the
         states, and people no doubt think that means the Legislature.
         But our Constitution permits ratifying conventions to ratify
         changes or replacement of our Constitution, completely bypassing
         the state legislatures.  The COS could decide all these matters
         in convention, including the appointment of delegates to a
         ratifying convention.
              SJR 9 represents a process that should be defeated.  The
         last Conference of the States that was called in 1786 ultimately
         resulted in a new Constitution.  Although that document was
         momentous, many participants in that conference warned us not to
         let it happen again.  The Con-Con con must be stopped.

    
************************************************************************
**THE CONSTITUTIONAL METHOD FOR HOLDING SUCH AN EVENT IS**
************************************************************************
Article. V.  The Constitution for the United States of America

     The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it 
necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the 
Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall 
call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be
valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when 
ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by 
Conventions in three fourth thereof, as the one or the other Mode of 
Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment 
which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight 
shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth 
Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, 
shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BILL NUMBER:  HCR 18
     AUTHOR:  Chisum
LAST ACTION:  02/02/95 H Referred to State Affairs
    CAPTION:
Authorizing a delegation to represent Texas at a Conference of the States.

 HOUSE COMM:  State Affairs

       By Chisum                                                 H.C.R. No. 18
                             CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
       WHEREAS, In 1989, the Intergovernmental Partnership Task Force of the 
Council of State Governments issued a report containing proposals for 
restoring greater balance to America's system of federalism; and
       WHEREAS, More recently, the National Governors' Association, the 
National Conference of State Legislatures, and the United States Advisory 
Commission on Intergovernmental Relations have called for summit meetings on 
the subject of federalism; and
       WHEREAS, Recognizing that the collective voice of the 50 states is 
geographically dispersed, concerned state officials have proposed an informal 
and bipartisan Conference of the States for the summer of 1995, to be attended 
by [DELEGATIONS] from the several states; and
       WHEREAS, Delegates would focus narrowly on the subject of [STRUCTURAL]
[REFORM] in the system of federalism, and the product of their deliberations 
would be submitted to the legislatures and governors of the 50 states for 
their [FORMAL] consideration; and
       WHEREAS, The Republican and Democratic governors of Utah and Nebraska, 
respectively, are working toward gathering support for the Conference of the 
States proposal, and the Council of State Governments has agreed to serve as 
coordinator and sponsor of the effort; now, therefore, be it
       RESOLVED, That the 74th Legislature of the State of Texas hereby 
authorize a [DELEGATION] to represent Texas at a Conference of the States for 
the purpose of reexamining this nation's system of federalism and devising 
means to constitutionally reassert the principle of state sovereignty; and, be 
it further
       RESOLVED, That the conference agenda extend, if supported by 
participants, to the drafting of one or more potential [AMENDMENTS] to the 
United States [CONSTITUTION] reaffirming and strengthening state sovereignty 
under the American system of federalism; and, be it further
       RESOLVED, That the conference agenda extend also to common language to 
be used in state petitions to the United States Congress for a constitutional 
amendment [CONVENTION] under Article V of the United States Constitution, 
incorporating within that language the text of any amendments drafted by the 
Conference of the States for consideration by the constitutional amendment 
convention; and, be it further

       RESOLVED, That copies of this resolution be forwarded to the president 
of the United States, to the speaker of the house of representatives and the 
president of the senate of the United States Congress, to the members of the 
Texas delegation to the congress, and to the presiding officers of the 
legislatures of the other 49 states. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            
From: Dan Druck <73543.2304@compuserve.com>
Date: 04 Apr 95 21:15:03 EDT
Subject: NO-CON-CON! Warren Burger Letter

TO: ALL
FROM:  Dan Druck, Council on Domestic Relations

The following is a test transcription of a letter that was written
(1983) by U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger to 
Phyllis Shalfly regarding the dangers of a con-con and the 
inability to restrict such in any way. 

You can obtain a copies of the original via fax by calling Jackie 
(217) 854-4008 or by faxing your request to (217) 854-4343.  
(Donations sent to Council on Domestic Relations, P.O. Box 138,
Carlinville, Illinois 62626 are most appreciated) 
___________________________________________________________________________

        Supreme Court of the United States
                Washington, D.C. 20543

June 22, 1983

Chambers of Chief Justice Burger
Retired 


      Dear Phyllis:

           I am glad to respond to your inquiry about a proposed
Article V Constitutional Convention. I have been asked questions
about this topic many times during fly news conferences and at
college meetings since I became chairman of the Commission on the
Bicentennial of the U.S. Constitution, and I have repeatedly
replied that such a convention would be a grand waste of time..




           I have also repeatedly given my opinion that there is
no effective way to limit or muzzle the actions of a
Constitutional Convention. The convention could make its own rules
and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the convention
to one amendment or to one issue, but there is no way to assure
that the convention would obey. After a convention is convened, it
will be too late to stop the convention if we don't like its
agenda. The meeting in 1787 ignored the limit placed by the
confederation Congress "for the sole and express purpose."

           With George Washington as chairman, they were able to
deliberate in total secrecy, with no press coverage and no leaks.
A Cconstitutlonal Convention today would be a free-for-all for
special interest groups, television coverage, and press
speculation.

           Our 1787 Constitution was referred to by several of its
authors as a "miracle."  Whatever gain night be hoped for from a
new constitutional convention could not be worth the risks
involved. A new convention could plunge our Nation into
constitutional confusion and confrontation at every turn, with no
assurance that focus would be on the subjects needing attention. I
have discouraged the idea of a Constitutional Cconvention, and I
am glad to see states rescinding their previous resolutions
requesting a convention. In these bicentennial years, we should be
celebrating its long life, not challenging its very existence.
Whatever may need repair on our consttution can be dealt with by
specific amendments.

                  Cordially,
                     [signature]
             Chief Justice W. Burger (Retired)


Mrs. Phyllis Schlafly
68 Fairmont
Alton, IL 62002



************************************************************************
From: Dan Druck <73543.2304@compuserve.com>
Date: 04 Apr 95 21:15:16 EDT
Subject: NO-CON-CON! 16 C.J.S.  9

TO: ALL
FROM: Dan Druck, Council on Domestic Relations

The following should make a nice addition to your arsenal.
________________________________________________________________________

From
Corpus Jurus Secundum
16 C.J.S       9

The members of a Constitutional Convention are the direct
representatives of the people (1)

and, as such, they may exercise all sovereign powers that 
are vested in the people of the state. (2)

They derive their powers, not from the legislature, but from
the people: (3)

and, hence, their power may not in any respect be limited or
restrained by the legislature.  Under this view, it is a 
Legislative Body of the Highest Order (4)

and may not only frame, but may also enact and promulgate, 
Constitution.  (5)

Citations:

(1)  Mississippi  (1892)
       Sproule v. Fredericks
       11 So. 472

(2)  Iowa  (1883)
      Koehler v. Hill
      14 N.W. 738

(3)  West Virginia  (1873)
       Loomis v. Jackson
       6 W. Va. 613

(4)  Oklahoma  (1907)
       Frantz v. Autry
       91 p. 193

(5)  Texas  (1912)
      Cox v. Robison
      150 S.W. 1149



************************************************************************
The following is frequently updated and distributed nationally.

________________________________________________________________________

   COUNCIL on DOMETIC RELATIONS
        P.O. Box 138
       Carlinville, Illinois  62626
              Ph (217) 854-4008 / (708) 471-6747
            Fax (217) 854-4343
      ActionLine (outgoing message) (217) 854-7504

*************************************************************************

From: Dan Druck <73543.2304@compuserve.com>
Date: 04 Apr 95 17:12:31 EDT
Subject: NO-CON-CON! Attorney Lapisopo Letter

TO: ALL
FROM Dan Druck, Council on Domestic Relations

The following is a text transcript of a letter written from California Attorney
Peter D. Lepiscopo to the Rep. Timothy Stine (Louisiana) regarding his revised
opinion about the dangers of the COS.  Original fax copies can be obtained by
calling (217) 854-4008 or by faxing your request to (217) 854-4343.  (donations
sent to Council on Domestic Relations, P.O. Box 138, Carlinville, Illinois 62626
are appreciated)
_____________________________________________________________________________

                     Law Office of
                     PETER D. LEPISCOPO
                          SUITE 10M
                  2635 CAMINO DEL RIO SOUTH
                  SAN DIEGO,  CALlFORNIA  92108
                  TELEPHONE(619) 299-5343
                  FACSIMlLE (619) 299-4767


March 31, 1995


         VIA FACSIMlLE (318-527-2712)


TO:   THE HONORABLE TIMOTHY STINE and HONORABLE MEMBERS OF THE
LOUISIANA LEGISLATURE


Dear Representative Stine:

I appreciate the time you spent with a last night discussing the
issue of the Conference of the States.  Thank you.

I have herewith transmitted all my comunications with the
California Senate, which, as you know, voted on March 22rd to
reject the Conference of the states.  I have also transmitted a copy
of U. S.  Senate resolution S. R. 82, which calls for a Conference of
the States and mentions convening a constitutional convention.

I would like to memorialize my position once again:  I am not
adverse to returning federal power to it's proper sphere (i.e.,
decentralizing it from Washington to the States, as it was intended
by the Founders);  nor am I adverse to the 10th Amendment movement
in this country;  nor am I adverse to state legislators and
governors meeting to discuss this issue.

My position is simply this I do not believe it is necessary for
state legislatures to pass resolutions sanctioning any such
meeting and I am concerned about convening a constitutional
convention (I believe the Constitution is perfect as written, but
the federal judiciary refuses to comply with it's dictates).  This is
the danger I address in my opinion letter.  Furthermore, and as I
tried to clarify last evening, I do not believe the amendments I
proposed in my opinion letter are fail safe; as I concluded in my
opinion I would vote against legislative sanctioning of the
Conference of the States.

Finally, if the Committee would like further testimony prior to
sending the resolution to the floor for a vote, then I will make
myself available to the committee by telephone conference call.

Very Truly Yours,

LAW OFFICES OF PETER D. LEPISCOPO

[signature]

Peter D. Lepiscopo

************************************************************************

Date: 19 Mar 95 13:31:58 EST
From: Dan Druck <73543.2304@compuserve.com>
To: "." <no-con-con@webcom.com>
Subject: NO-CON-CON! VERY IMPORTANT AMMUNITION !!!


The following is a text transcript of a *VERY IMPORTANT* letter faxed to our 
national headquarters.  We would be happy to fax a copy of the letter to 
any requests.  Call (217) 854-4008.

          COUNCIL on DOMESTIC RELATIONS
                  P.O. Box 138
           Carlinville, Illinois  62626
     Voice: (217) 854-4008 / (708) 471-6747  
              Fax: (217) 854-4343
       E-Mail: 73543,2304@compuserve.com
____________________________________________________________________________

[LETTERHEAD] 
The Florida State University 
Tallahassee, Florida  32305-1063
"College of Law"

[BODY]
                         March 10, 1995 
Mr. Eric J. Thorn
Legislative Analyst 
House Republican Office 
323 The Capitol 
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1300

Dear Mr. Thorn,

     This is in response to your inquiries regarding HCR 1401, which
calls for the convening of a "Conference of States" and would authorize
Florida's participation in such a conference. As professors of
constitutional law at the Florida State University College of Law, we are
extremely troubled by the possibility that this proposed Conference could be
construed as an application for a constitutional convention under Article V
of the United States Constitution. Such a convention could evolve into a
wholesale assault on our Constitution, and lead to proposals for destroying
our present constitutional system. The history of the 1787 constitutional
convention indicates that once a constitutional convention is convened, the
delegates to that convention could expand the agenda of the convention
beyond its original purposes, dictate their own rules for the ratification
of the convention's proposals, and therefore circumvent the fairly strict
requirements of Article V. Moreover, again using the 1787 experience as our
model, no external authority -- neither Congress, the courts, nor states
that disagree with the convention's proposals -- would have the legal
authority to reject the convention's decisions if the convention itself
deemed those decisions binding on the entire country.

     Our conclusions about the dangers of the "Conference" proposed in
HCR 1401 are not mitigated by the ambiguous phrasing of the proposal, nor by
the final subsection stating that the Concurrent Resolution "does not
constitute an application by the Legislature of the State of Florida for the
calling of a federal Constitutional Convention within the meaning of Article
V of the United States Constitution."  It is essential to keep in mind that
the "Conference of the States" could define its objectives for itself, and
could reject preexisting limitation on its authority, just as the 1787
convention abandoned the limitation imposed on it by the Articles of
Confederation. The broad language of the Concurrent Resolution authorizes
the Conference to "reform the Federal Government" and authorizes conference
delegates to "propose, debate and vote on elements of an action plan to
restore checks and balances between the states and the national government."
 These broad mandates could easily be construed by the Conference as
providing it the authority to fundamentally revise our existing
constitutional structure.

     It is the strange (and dangerous) nature of a constitutional
convention that it defines its own objectives and sets the guidelines for
its own success. Once a constitutional convention begins, the only limit on
its power is political. The federal courts have consistently refused to
entertain questions regarding the legitimacy of constitutional amendments
(see Coleman v. Miller, 307 U.S. 433 (19139)). Therefore, a new
constitutional convention presents the disturbing prospect of many different
political bodies -- the Conference, the existing federal government,
dissenting states -- all vying for preeminent political authority without
the possibility of judicial review to settle the dispute peacefully. This is
truly a recipe for a constitutional crisis, and the destabilizing effects of
such a crisis would reach into every aspect of our political, legal, and
economic life.

     We emphatically urge the Florida legislature to reject CDR 1401, or
at the very least to postpone the decision of the concurrent resolution
until the legislature has given careful and detailed consideration to the
many potentially disastrous implications that accompany even an ambiguous
call for a constitutional convention. The United States Constitution is the
greatest political document since the Magna Carta. Much of this country's
strength and international moral authority are attributable to the
Constitution's careful balancing of rights, responsibilities, and powers.
Joining a "Conference of States" as defined in HCR 1401 is the first,
radical step down a very slippery slope toward upsetting that balance. We
urge you to resist taking that step.

                         Sincerely,

                         [signature]

                         Steven G. Gey
                         "John W. and Ashley E. Frost"
                         "Professor of Law"


                         [signature]

                         Nat Stern
                         "Professor of Law"


******************************************************************************* 




THE MESSAGE: "Only 13 states have approved the COS resolution and
only one of those was in the past six weeks. Since March 5th, 16
states have killed or tabled the resolution because documentation
has become available that demonstrates there is an intent to
generate a Constitutional Convention. The Denver Post (3-31)
carried an AP article which stated the planners of the COS hoped
to have 38 STATES BY JUNE . The relevance here is that 34 states
can petition Congress for a Con-Con and 38 states are required for
ratification (either legislatures or ratifying conventions -our
legislators can be bypassed in favor of ratifying conventions).

GINGRICH TO ATTEND COS AS A CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATE?  Many
legislators believe the COS cannot become a Con-Con because under
Article V the Congress must call a convention when 34 states
apply. Governor Leavitt said Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole are very
"friendly" to the COS and hope to have a "Congressional
Delegation" at the Conference. To confirm that, Trish Katsen,
free-lance journalist and Spotlight reporter, said today she spoke
with Newt last week at the Capitol Hill Club. When she asked him
if he was going to the COS he said if he is invited he will. Trish
then told him she had heard he already had been invited and he
said he would join a congressional delegation. When asked how many
members of Congress would be there Gingrich replied that he didn't
know - that it would be up to the Governors to decide and that he
was working with them on this.

The relevance here is that if 34 states have sanctioned delegates
at the COS and pass a resolution (their States' Petition?) calling
for a Con-Con the Congressional Delegation, representing the U.S.
Congress, could open the Con-Con on the spot. They could amend or
rewrite our Constitution and if 38 states are represented, it can
be ratified all under one roof. They go in representing our
Republican form of Government under the Constitution for the
United States of America and come out... God only knows what. Can
you see how urgent your involvement is?. ..and if not you, then
who?
      MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GUIDE OUR EFFORTS TO KEEP HER FREE







************************************************************************

**WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF A CON-CON/COS WERE HELD?**
************************************************************************

COS is destructive by this usurpation of powers you have prohibited. Over 
40 governors together have passed the CSG model participation resolution 
to their respective legislatures. All the resolutions have been designed 
alike to result in your lawmakers (ALL 50 STATES) appoint them with
powers you have allowed only to your lawmakers....that which only 
legislators have under ARTICLE V of the Federal Constitution...proposing 
amendments to the federal Constitution.

COS is a group of governors seizing unconstitutional powers by using a 
group of lawmakers who are assisting them in doing so!  Thousands of 
lawmakers belong to a private group with original offices at 1313 60th 
Street in Chicago, since having moved to Lexington, KY. The officers of 
this organization are under direction of executive Director Dan Sprague. 
Sprague's coterie is following what is printed as "A MESSAGE FROM
CSG'S Executive Director"...."Together with the states, we seek out 
solutions that will work now and well into the 21st century".  Sprague's 
meaning is further clarified by "the CSG International Committee" ...
"Goals of the committee include..increasing interaction with other 
international organizations..." "The Council of State Governments believes 
that interaction with the international community in the increasingly 
interdependent world is essential for the states as they prepare to
usher in the 21st century." (DOES THIS MEAN 21ST CENTURY CONSTITUTION?)

Most CSG members have no idea that participation resolutions for COS 
empowers Sprague's CSG "GOVERNING BOARD" to incorporate CSG members and
agents as this parliamentary form of government (USED IN ENGLAND TO 
APPOINT COLONIAL GOVERNORS).  The governor limited by you under the state
constitution becomes a creature of COS, a dangerous new type known by form 
of government as a "PARLIAMENTARY" governor. This new form of governor 
under COS is vested with both the executive power you have assigned him, 
and (THE POWER ONLY LEGISLATORS HOLD) legislative official credentials 
to propose "STRUCTURAL" changes in the form of our government.

Sincerely,

Marshall Peters
Fax 410-357-5629









THIS IS DANGEROUS, AND RECKLESS!              

They are not calling this a Constitutional Convention, but the result is 
the same.  If it walks like a duck and it quacks, like a duck, you can 
call it a pig all day long, to me it is a duck!

This resolution would concentrate the sovereign powers of the people, 
through their state-appointed delegates, in a de facto constitutional 
convention -- without actually calling it one.

The passage of this "resolution" would authorize three extraordinary 
developments:

1.  The formal calling of a convocation of the states is tantamount to, 
and in possession of, the process essential to a constitutional convention.

2.  The formalized appointment of certified delegates empowered to vote at 
this federal convocation.

3.  Resolutions which become legal instruments authorizing the delegates 
to deliberate, propose, and adopt long-term fundamental structural 
changes in the U.S. Constitution.

If the COS is such an informal non dangerous meeting why does each state have
to pass a legislative bill officially appointing voting delegates to represent
their states? 
Why can't they have an informal meeting letting each state send whom ever they
wish?
Because a CON-CON needs voting delegates form each state government.

THIS CONSTITUTES AN EMERGENCY THIS IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE TAKEN
LIGHTLY!
AMENDMENTS ARE UP FOR GRABS?  WHICH AMENDMENTS WILL BE GUTTED OR
STRIPPED 
IN A DE FACTO CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION?  
******************************************************************************
Without Prejudice per UCC 1-207

-- 



From cu504@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Tue Apr 11 21:49:40 EDT 1995
Article: 9273 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cu504
From: cu504@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Sorensen)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: ASG Publisher killed
Date: 11 Apr 1995 03:11:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3mcs1e$15c@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: cu504@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris Sorensen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


Tom McMullen, Founder and Co-CEO of McMullen and Yee publishing,Publisher
of American Survival guide and his wife, Deanna Lee were killed february
12th. Mr. McMullen was piloting his Turbo Commander near Oklahoma City
when the plane went down in icing conditions. If I am not mistaken, Mr. Yee
passed away last year.

Donations may be sent to Deanna's favorite charity:

Feed the Children
P.O. Box 36
Oklahoma City Ok. 73101-0036



From nobody@flame.sinet.org Tue Apr 11 21:53:28 EDT 1995
Article: 9282 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!www.geo.cornell.edu!news.alias.net!not-for-mail
From: nobody@flame.sinet.org (Anonymous)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Extensive Medical Field Kit (16K long)
Date: 11 Apr 1995 01:32:16 -0400
Lines: 452
Message-ID: <3md491hcn@news.alias.net>
Comments: This message did not originate from the above address.  It was automatically remailed by an anonymous mail service.  Please report inappropriate use to <complaints@flame.sinet.org>


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Introduction:
What follows is a listing of items for inclusion in an extensive
field medical kit.

It is assumed that the reader has at least a nodding familiarity with
advanced first aid principles and equipment.  It is regretted that some
of the items mentioned may be hard-to-obtain.  Substitute freely.
If you have a physician with whom you have a good working relationship,
ask him or her for guidance in obtaining the uncommon and prescription
items.  The "Sources" list periodically posted to misc.survivalism may
also provide pointers to companies (e.g., Moore Medical) that carry some
of the items listed.

Disclaimer:
Nothing in this text is to be construed as medical or legal advice.
Qualified professional assistance must be sought before medical
treatment is rendered.  This text serves only as a guide for discussion.
YOU ASSUME ALL RISKS AND FULL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY AND ALL
                  APPLICATION OF THIS MATERIAL.
This text is not copyrighted and is to be distributed freely.  Modifications
will invalidate the PGP clearsigning.

Criteria:
This kit is designed to address an extensive variety of problems.  It is
therefore fairly large, although man-portable.

Author Notes:
I did not compile this list.  The author has a broad background
in treating field injuries and medical emergencies.  If you disagree with
the selections herein, change or substitute to suit your needs.

Like me, the author wishes to remain anonymous.

If there is sufficient interest, future posts may be made on
related topics.

Regards,
NEMO
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
PGP Public Key:  1024/ED58C5D9 1995/03/30 Nemo <no-one@nowhere>
Key fingerprint =  92 86 72 3B 9F C0 4E 23  2D DF EE C7 4C 66 9F 1A
- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2

mQCNAy96XSEAAAEEAMz+5q54EnuenkK5+VElV8A+OakHdFYZyoiA2HWCV/clNAPi
KhNG/vV8Vo6f8WFXXMqeTDp0LCvNBqoZRBp3nkqyKzwFcOmZP6/LWK6glROfDV7/
VDHbrJa4ijg1Ok13hrWgKEfGyOL5O92XYCicdx0XCCLgduY0LkuBL+rtWMXZAAUR
tBVOZW1vIDxuby1vbmVAbm93aGVyZT4=
=2g9P
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
- ---------------------------begin----------------------------------------
Emergency Medical Pack, Field, Comprehensive

Items marked with an asterisk (*) are optional,
depending on the user's needs and/or level of skill.

NOTE: It is prudent to familiarize oneself with the infectious
      diseases endemic to the area one expects to travel to or
      through and be immunized accordingly

     Pharmaceuticals:

          Analgesics

               Acetaminophen 500 mg gel-coated
               Aspirin (buffered) 500 mg
               Percocet
               Proparacaine, Ophthalmic solution
               Morphine, injectable (*)


          Anesthetics, local (*)

               Xylocaine, 1% 
               Xylocaine, 1% with epinephrine
               Marcaine
                    Longer acting than xylocaine

          Antimicrobials (*)

               Antifungal foot powder/liquid
                    Tinactin
                    Micatin
               Antimalarials (see note 01)
                    Prophylaxis: Chloroquine Phosphate 500 mg (zone A)
                                 Mefloquine 250mg (zones B & C)
                    Treatment:   Chloroquine Phosphate 500 mg (zone A)
                                 Quinine Sulfate 300 mg or Doxycyline 100 mg
                                 or Clindamycin 450 mg (zones B & C)

                    Consult local health department or "Sanford
                    Guide to Antimicrobial Therapy" to determine
                    which strains of malaria are endemic in the
                    region you expect to travel in/near, and the
                    recommended therapy.

               Bacitracin Ointment (single use foil packages)
                    Many are sensitive to ointments containing
                    neomycin. Single use foil packets are less
                    likely to rupture than a large tube, and if
                    one does, the mess will be much less.
               Biaxin 500 mg
                    Broad spectrum, useful for respiratory infections
               Flagyl 500 mg
                    Antiparasitic, and also effective against many
                    anaerobic bacteria.
               Keflex 500 mg
                    Broad spectrum, useful for wound and respiratory
                    infections.
               Polysporin Powder
                    May be sprinkled into a deep wound if definitive
                    medical care is going to be delayed.
               Rocephin 1000 mg for injection, lyophilized (*)
               Silvadine Ointment
                    Topical antimicrobial, useful for burns.
               Saline, sterile, for injection, 3 cc vials
                    Used to reconstitute rocephin.
               Septra DS
                    Useful for many forms of bacterial sinusitis,
                    as well as travellers' diarrhea.
               Water
                    Although not a pharmaceutical in the traditional
                    sense, potable water (disinfected with chlorine
                    or iodine tablets, or filtered) is the best way
                    to disinfect/clean a wound that extends below the
                    dermis. While sterile water intended for irrigation
                    is preferable, clean, disinfected water is preferable
                    to dirt, bugs, and leaves in a deep wound. Betadine
                    solution should not be used to irrigate a deep
                    wound in the field in the vast majority of cases.
               Water Purification Tablets

               
          Emergency Drugs

               Epinephrine Injector (1:1000)
                    Essential for treatment of anaphylactic reactions
                    to poisonous bites/stings.
               Charcoal, activated, suspension
               Ipecac, Syrup
                     Never induce vomiting in cases of poisoning due
                     to caustic substances or petroleum distillates.
               Glucose concentrate, oral
               Inhalants, ammonia

          Gastrointestinal

               Levsin SL 0.25 mg
                    An excellent treatment for cramps associated with
                    gastroenteritis.

          Intravenous Solutions (*)
                  
               Ringer's Solution, Lactated
               5% Dextrose in Water (D5W)
               Normal Saline

          Other

               DEET (At least 30% concentration) insect repellant.

     Consumables

          Bandages, adhesive, butterfly
               Useful to close minor lacerations. Steri-strips
               are a good alternative, but tend not to stick well
               without benzoin skin prep.

          Bandages, adhesive, fabric
               Carry assorted sizes, including 2x3" and finger tip.

          Bandage, self-adherent (Coban)
               2" rolls make an excellent replacement for adhesive
               tape to secure a dressing.

          Bandages, triangular
               Useful for cravats, slings, and tourniquets

          Benzoin Applicator Ampules
               Skin prep ampules to ensure adhesive dressings stick.
               This can be very useful in a field setting.

          Blanket, emergency, aluminized

          Cautery unit, battery-powered, disposable (*)
               A quick way to stop bleeders that are too small 
               to ligate and too large to stop quickly under
               direct pressure. This device is about the size of a
               disposable pen-light.

          Cervical collar, disposable

          Cotton, absorbant, sterile
               Can be used for extra packing in a wound dressing
               or to cushion a splint. Also useful to fashion a
               temporary dental filling, soaked with eugenol

          Dressings, field, battle-type
               Military issue field dressings, if in undamaged
               packages, are excellent, compact dressings.

          Dressings, burn, gel, hydrophillic
               Minimizes contamination and fluid loss.

          Dressings, burn, sheet-type
               Allows coverage of large areas, and is permeable to
               aqueous irrigants.
          
          Dressings, eye patch, with metal shield

          Dressings, gauze, sterile
               2x3" & 4x4"

          Dressings, occlusive
               Tegaderm
               Xeroform

          Eugenol (*)
               Soak cotton pledget to temporarily replace lost dental
               filling.

          Gloves, latex

          Ice pack, chemical
               Useful to minimize pain/swelling of sprains and
               poisonous bites/stings.

          Moleskin
               Packages of 3x6" sheets. Use BEFORE blisters appear.

          Prep pads, Alcohol
               Useful for cleaning instrument tips and injection sites.
               Also useful to clean the edges of a wound prior to
               applying steri-strips or butterfly bandages.

          Scrub, surgical, Phisohex
               An antimicrobial cleaner that is a good alternative
               to Betadine. It is less likely to cause a skin reaction.
               I do not recommend the use of topical disinfectants to
               clean/irrigate a deep (below the dermis) wound.

          Splint, wire mesh
               This is excellent for arm/wrist splinting. It is
               unit-packaged the size of a deck of cards.

          Sutures, individually packaged, with needle (*)
               3-0 and 4-0 Nylon
               3-0 Vicryl/Dexon

          Tape, adhesive, cloth
               A 2" roll is useful for dressings where Coban cannot
               be used, also to temporarily stabilize a sprained
               extremity.

          Towel, cleaning, moistened (Wash 'n' Dry or baby wipes)
               Many contain antimicrobials and are useful to
               clean abrasions.

          Zinc Oxide Powder (*)
               This can be made into a paste with eugenol to form a
               temporary filling.


     Equipment

          Airways, oropharyngeal, disposable

          Blades, scalpel, #11 and #15

          Clamp, hemostatic

          Dowel, wood, 1/4" x 6"
               Used to make "Spanish Windlass" tourniquet with a
               cravat bandage.

          Eye Magnet/Foreign body loop
               To lift foreign objects off of eye
               Never remove a foreign object that penetrates
               the globe of the eye.

          Flashlight, AA size, Mini Maglight

          Forceps, fine tip (tweezers)

          Forceps, Adson (fine tip with teeth)

          Hypodermic needles
               25 ga. x 1" 

          Intravenous infusion sets (*)

          Intravenous needles, angiocath (*) 
               I recommend 20 ga. 1 1/2" and 18 ga. 1 1/2"

          Intravenous needle, angiocath, 16 ga. (*)
               For emergency cricothyrotomy

          Intravenous needle, butterfly, 18 ga. (*)
               For rapid IV access when an indwelling IV catheter is
               not needed.

          Mask, bag-valve type (ambu-bag), single patient use (*)
               Useful for resuscitating respiratory arrest

          Mask, pocket, with one-way valve
               For administering CPR

          Needle Holder

          Oxygen, USP (*)
               As large a cylinder as practical to carry

          Ring cutter

          Scalpel handle, #3 or #7 type

          Scissors, bandage, 4"

          Scissors, "paramedic" type

          Syringes (*)
               5 cc for local infiltration
               60 cc for emergency thoracentesis

          Sphygmomanometer

          Stethoscope
               Littman Classic II or Cardiology II



Miscellaneous Survival

          Dental Floss
               This is an excellent lashing material, takes up little
               room, and has tremendous tensile strength.

          Entrenching Tool

          Fire starting equipment
               Magnesium bar with striker
               Matches, waterproof

          Hatchet 

          Ice Axe

          Knife
               High quality rugged knife (with sharpening steel or
               stone); Examples (in no particular order):
                 Cold Steel "Recon" series (SRK, Tanto, Scout)
                 Buck models 119, Nighthawk
                 Randall models 1, 14, 15, 16
                 Gerber models LMF, BMF
                 Busse Steel Heart II
                 SOG models Seal 2000, SF Bowie

               A back up knife is also recommended, such as:
                 Spyderco Clipit Series
                 Benchmade AFCK
                 Swiss Army Knife

               Multi-Tool
                 Leatherman
                 Gerber Multi-Plier

          Paracord
               Useful for lashing poles for a shelter, or fixing a
               blade to a pole for a spear.

          Radio, two-way
               Lap top computers with PGP and ham radios that are
               packet-capable are a relatively inexpensive method
               of secure, near real-time communication. Many VHF
               ham hand radios also receive NOAA weather frequencies.

          Rope
               200' Climbers' rope
               Figure 8 descender

          Saw, wire

          Signaling Devices
               Aerial flares
               Signal mirror (Gerber)
               Smoke Grenades
               Strobe, battery powered
               Whistle

          Survival Rations
               MREs, dehydrated "backpacking" food.
               Potable water, and/or a means to filter/disinfect water



Useful References:

          Advanced First Aid
            American Red Cross

          Advanced Trauma Life Support
            American College of Surgeons

          Emergency War Surgery
            US Government Printing Office

          Flint's Emergency Treatment and Management
            Harvey D. Cain, M.D.

          Medicine For Mountaineering
            James A. Wilkerson, M.D.

          The Merck Manual

          Sanford Guide to Antimicrobial Therapy
            Jay P. Sanford, M.D.

          US Army Special Forces Medical Handbook
            United Stated Army Institute for Military Assistance


  Notes:

    01   Zone A includes Central America, Carribean Islands, Middle
         East (not including North & South Yemen), the Northwest
         part of Afhganistan, and Northeastern China

         Zone B includes India and all countries on its northern
         borders, North & South Yemen, Northwest Afghanistan, 
         Southeast Iran, Sumatra, parts of Borneo and Malasia.

         Zone C includes All of Africa south of 20 degrees north
         latitude plus Madigascar, all of Southeast Asia except as
         otherwise indicated, New Guinea (and islands in the 
         immediate vicinity), plus parts of Borneo and Malasia.


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From jon@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Sun Apr 16 00:07:33 EDT 1995
Article: 9390 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!gwu.edu!jon
From: jon@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Jonathan Stump)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Information sources.
Date: 14 Apr 1995 18:21:35 GMT
Organization: The George Washington University, Washington DC
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3mmeff$j84@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>
References: <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.164.127.252
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Paul Zaccari (lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz) wrote:



: 	Hi

:  One thing I've learned not to rely on is Network News. Of all the 

tv: check out the evening news on CBN. its filled with religion, but 
youll see some surprising things. 

print: National Review, American Spectator, Reason, et al.

Jonathan


From f_griffith@titan.sfasu.edu Sun Apr 16 00:08:02 EDT 1995
Article: 9382 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!hookup!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!news.uh.edu!titan.sfasu.edu!titan.sfasu.edu!f_griffith
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Information sources.
Message-ID: <1995Apr14.160848@titan.sfasu.edu>
From: f_griffith@titan.sfasu.edu
Date: 14 Apr 95 16:08:48 CST
References: <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com> <3mmeff$j84@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
Nntp-Posting-Host: titan.sfasu.edu
Lines: 28

In article <3mmeff$j84@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, jon@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Jonathan Stump) writes:
> Paul Zaccari (lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> : 	Hi
> 
> :  One thing I've learned not to rely on is Network News. Of all the 
> 
> tv: check out the evening news on CBN. its filled with religion, but 
> youll see some surprising things. 
> 
> print: National Review, American Spectator, Reason, et al.
> 
> Jonathan
CBN news shows up in first half hour or so of 700 Club on the Family
Channel and on some local stations.  That portion does have some 
religious orientation, but religious issues are not the complete
focus by any means (tho the rest of the program mainly is).

The Washington Times has a weekly edition available nationwide by mail
and possibly on newstands.  Looks pretty good from the issues I've seen.
Sorry I don't have the  address handy.

The Wall Street Journal has good coverage of nationa and international
news, though feature stories sometimes betray liberal bias by some
reporters.
   


From wbean@ix.netcom.com Sun Apr 16 00:09:04 EDT 1995
Article: 9348 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: wbean@ix.netcom.com (William K. Bean)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Information sources.
Date: 14 Apr 1995 19:48:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 81
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3mmjj7$pqh@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dc7-06.ix.netcom.com

In <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com> lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz
(Paul Zaccari) writes: 

>	Hi
>
> One thing I've learned not to rely on is Network News. Of all the 
>information that a news stations should be delivering to us in the
half 
>hour allotted, why do they select things like "New York's new 
>anti-smoking law" or "The OJ Simpson trial". 
> Does anyone have an idea of where I can get information about
IMPORTANT 
>events and issues while the networks play "Electronic People
Magazine"? 
>You know, things that I might need to prepare for? 
>
> 				Thanks


Good discovery and good question.  Unfortunately, getting 
complete and accurate information is not a simple or easy 
process.

Various factors affect our ability to get complete and 
accurate information.  To begin with, some people are 
not people of good will and may have an incentive to lie 
in order to mislead us.  Even among people of good will, 
different people may have different understandings of what 
is true whether reporting facts or the meaning and 
significance of facts.  Furthermore, some people are better 
writers and speakers than others and are better able to 
convey what they understand.

I find that I must listen to a wide variety of people and 
read a wide variety of literature to get even a minimally 
clear understanding of events.  The more controversial the 
matter, the more I must listen and read.  In particular, I 
try to get the views of people who have different backgrounds 
and perspectives from mine.

With regard to news, I read the New York Times, the Wall 
Street Journal, the Washington Times, and occasionally the 
Christian Science Monitor.  (I live near Washington, D.C., 
but generally ignore the Washington Post except to scan 
the headlines of a colleague's paper.)  I listen to National 
Public Radio, Rush Limbaugh, Oliver North, and G. Gordon 
Liddy.  I watch "This Week with David Brinkley" Sundays on 
ABC. To know what is happening in Congress, I watch C-Span.  
My wife and I subscribe to about 30 magazines.  I follow 
several Usenet groups.  With regard to international events, 
I listen to shortwave radio.  Obviously, I don't do all these 
things all the time, but I try to get a wide variety of views 
on matters that I consider important.

But just getting information is not enough.  One must then 
sift the vast amount of available information to try to 
determine what actually happened or is happening and what 
to think about it.  (I'm not particulary interested in my 
"feelings" or anyone else's "feelings" about matters.)  To 
do that, I find it necessary to do more reading.  As a 
Roman Catholic Christian, I start with the Bible, the 
catechism, and papal writings, as well as other Christian 
literature.  I recently finished an overview of United 
States history and have started on The Art of War by Sun 
Tzu (translated by Thomas Cleary), The I Ching or Book 
of Changes (translated into German by Richard Wilhelm 
and into English by Cary F. Baynes), and Democracy in 
America by Alexis De Tocqueville.  (By the way, for fun, 
I'm finishing African Game Trails by Theodore Roosevelt.  
Reading this book feels like traveling through a time 
warp (I suppose; I haven't done it.), things have changed 
a lot in the last 100 years.) 

This long response may not be what you're looking for but I 
hope it's some help.  As you may have gathered, I don't think 
you can read any one or two things or listen to one or two 
broadcasts and have any hope of becoming informed.

Good luck.

Bill


From hall@macs.mxim.com Sun Apr 16 00:10:27 EDT 1995
Article: 9411 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.i.net!news.world.net!macs!macs!not-for-mail
From: hall@macs.mxim.com (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Information sources.
Date: 14 Apr 1995 16:24:49 -0700
Organization: Maxim Integrated Products, Beaverton  OR.
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <3mn081$1vo@macs.mxim.com>
References: <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: macs.mxim.com

In article <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com> lziss2.lincroftnj.ncr.com!pwz (Paul Zaccari) writes:

> One thing I've learned not to rely on is Network News. Of all the 
>information that a news stations should be delivering to us in the half 
>hour allotted, why do they select things like "New York's new 
>anti-smoking law" or "The OJ Simpson trial". 

Were you under the misconception that TV news was actually in the
news business?  Sorry, they are in the advertising business.  They
sell advertising by offering entertainment loosely based on current
events.  The ratings rule and you better believe the editor is aware
of that fact.  TV broadcasts "news" stories based on how many
viewers they will attract.  They don't dare do a story which will
not hold viewers attention, people would change channels and not
change back.  (I hear CNN is better than the average TV news but
don't suscribe to cable so I can't say from my own experience.)

Unfortunately the same can be said, to a lesser extent, about all
our news sources.  Radio stations with a news emphasis are usually
better than TV.  Print is usually best of all because readers can
just skip what doesn't interest them, they don't have to change to a
competitor.  In my opinion, _U.S. News and World Report_ is the most
accurate single source available.  However if you really want to
stay informed don't trust any single source, get information from
several diverse sources.  This should include both "liberal" and
"conservative" sources since each tends to put a different slant on
things and publish different stories.


From cntrspy@iapps.org Sun Apr 16 00:12:35 EDT 1995
Article: 9401 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!svc.portal.com!news1.best.com!cntrspy.vip.best.com!cntrspy
From: cntrspy@iapps.org (Executive Protection Associates)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Information sources.
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 13:55:08
Organization: IAPPS, the Bodyguard Organization- < info@iapps.org >
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <cntrspy.22.000DEBA6@iapps.org>
References: <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com> <n3efoD71vLv.MMB@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cntrspy.vip.best.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

= = =  In addition to the info below also consider these open sources:

1.   TVRO live news feeds-echo  feed TO the network not FROM the network.
2.   Good old scanner radio.  Get the freqs for your local news gathering 
Orgs.   This was a good source of information in both the Los Angeles,
San Francisco, and Las Vegas Riots.  Real-time information, usually un-censored
with lots of yelling ;-)  When the Pres. is in town they do a good job of 
completely compromising ComSec ( with a little help from the local PD )  
really BAD, they use it like a telephone.
3.  Internet IRC Chat- again "real-time" info 
on Kobe quake, LA Earthquake, etc.
4.  Shortwave is great, so is monitoring the HF and 2m "Ham" channels.

  In short there are literally Hundreds of "channels" to obtain open source 
intelligence without relying on the network news.
++++++++++++++++++++++

In article <n3efoD71vLv.MMB@netcom.com> n3efo@netcom.com (Karl J. Alsheimer) 
writes:

>:  One thing I've learned not to rely on is Network News. Of all the 
>: information that a news stations should be delivering to us in the half 
>: hour allotted, why do they select things like "New York's new 
>: anti-smoking law" or "The OJ Simpson trial". 
>:  Does anyone have an idea of where I can get information about IMPORTANT 
>: events and issues while the networks play "Electronic People Magazine"? 
>: You know, things that I might need to prepare for? 

>:                               Thanks

>Get yourself a portable Shortwave radio, tune-in to the World news. You 
>might also want to browse around on rec.shortwave.



- - 
Chris Hall, C.O.O. Executive Protection Associates, Inc
Providers of Worlwide Investigations, Off-Shore Services,
and Protective Services to the Fortune 500, the Entertainment
Industry, Business, and High Technology Corporations. Regional
Governor IAPPS < info@iapps.org > Moderator the Bodyguard's List: 
<bodyguard-l-request@netcom.com > and the bodyguard-101 e-course
++ Opinions Expressed are the author's and not E.P.A.I.'s ++


From mcdaniel@u.washington.edu Sun Apr 16 00:13:14 EDT 1995
Article: 9402 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!mcdaniel
From: mcdaniel@u.washington.edu (Henry McDaniel)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Information sources.
Date: 15 Apr 1995 22:33:19 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <3mphjf$n9b@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <D6zM5J.2wz@lziss3.lincroftnj.ncr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nntp3.u.washington.edu


While the JPJA shouldn't be at the top of your list of overall
sources, I encourage you to pencil it in somewhere.  Especially
checkout the JPJA Surfboard.   See:

http://weber.u.washington.edu/~mcdaniel/

On WWW.

-McDaniel


From woody@news.enet.net Sun Apr 16 00:15:06 EDT 1995
Article: 9392 of misc.survivalism
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!maple.enet.net!not-for-mail
From: woody@news.enet.net (Woody Harper)
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: MRE FAQ
Date: 14 Apr 1995 10:56:24 -0700
Organization: Evergreen Communications, Phoenix, Arizona
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


MRE (Meal Ready to Eat) FAQ
Version: 0.01
Updated: 4/14/95
Maintained by: woody@enet.net (Woody Harper) 


Section   I - MRE History
Section  II - Pouch Construction
Section III - Shelf Life and Storage/Temperature Chart
Section  IV - Nutrition Chart
Section   V - Recipes




SECTION I - MRE HISTORY
-----------------------

MREs (Meals Ready to Eat) were born on Earth, but grew up on Apollo flights 
to the moon, in Skylab floating workshops and on every U.S. Space Shuttle 
flight from Enterprise to Atlantis.

In the 1970s retort pouches (the popular name for thermostabilized, 
laminated food pouches named after the retort cooker ) were put to their 
first real test by the U.S. Space Program. The Program was looking for 
delicious, easy to prepare, "normal" food that wouldn't increase human 
stress the way that freeze dried food and "toothpaste tube food" did. 
More than any other technology, retort pouches have satisfied the Program's 
needs. And so, over 20 years ago, retort pouches found a home at NASA, 
where all their unusual characteristics were much appreciated and they have 
been successfully feeding astronauts in flight and on the moon ever since.


THE HISTORY OF THE MRE

In the 1980s the U.S. military research labs, which had hatched the pouch 
technology in the first place, took the lead in its use and development. 
They enabled the U.S. Military to upgrade its entire field ration program
to retort pouches, from the earlier, less workable technologies of canning 
and freeze drying. Over the past 10 years these high tech research labs 
have continually upgraded the taste and nutritional profile of the meals.

Over the past 10 years our military has depended on MREs for its field 
ration requirements. Tens of millions of MRE "full meals"  have been 
produced and eaten. They have gone to Grenada, to the war on drugs, to 
fight forest fires in Alaska, and to feed the troops in  "Desert Shield" 
and Desert Storm.
 

SECTION II - POUCH CONSTRUCTION
--------------------------------

The big breakthrough was the pouch. Its three special layers allow the food 
to be sealed and then cooked (opposite from other food processing methods)
and never exposed to the air again until opened. Thus, the food is actually 
sterilized In the pouch and then blocked from future contamination. The 
result is the almost unbelievable shelf life and food which retains its 
natural moisture and juice (i.e. it is not freeze dried or dehydrated).

Here Is the breakdown of the breakthrough pouch:

     OUTERLAYER: A tough polyester film which provides protection for the 
		 middle layer and Is an excellent printing surface.

     MIDDLE LAYER: The key to the pouch's shelf stability, aluminum foil, 
		   the most effective and economical barrier to moisture, 
		   light and oxygen. The result: No refrigeration or 
		   freezing will ever be required.

     INNER LAYER: Next to the food product is a very special polypropylene 
		  film. It Is compatible with the widest variety of foods 
		  so that no "canned" or other unwanted taste is added to 
		  the food. It also ensures an exceptionally strong heat seal.



SECTION III - SHELF LIFE AND STORAGE/TEMPERATURE CHART

MRE SHELF LIFE

A main concern in the development and testing of rations for our armed 
forces has always been shelf life. An amazing amount of research has been 
done in the development of the retort pouch and the MRE to determine the 
exact length of time and the exact conditions under which it is safe to 
store the entrees and side dishes.

The main thing we have to work with is the shelf life chart (shown below) 
compiled by the Army's Natick Research labs. This gives a very good 
overview and summary of all the findings gathered from all the testing of 
MRE products. However, it leaves many questions unanswered. Here are 
additional facts and observations that have been gathered about MRE shelf life:

 1) The Shelf life ratings shown in the chart above were determined by 
    taste panels, panels of "average" people, mostly office personnel at 
    the Natick labs. Their opinions were combined to determine when a 
    particular component or, in this case, the entire MRE ration, was no 
    longer acceptable.

 2) The Shelf life determinations were made solely on the basis of taste, 
    as it was discovered that acceptable nutritional content and basic 
    product safety would extend way beyond the point where taste degradation 
    would occur. This means that the MRE would be safe and give a high 
    degree of food value long after the official expiration of the products 
    as determined by taste.

  3) MRE pouches have been tested and redesigned where necessary according to
     standards much more strict than for commercial food. They must be
     able to stand up to abuse tests such as obstacle course traversals in
     field clothing pockets, storage outdoors anywhere in the world, shipping
     under extremely rough circumstances (such as by half track over rocky
     terrain), 100% survival of parachute drops, 75% survival of free-fall
     air drops, severe repetitive vibration (1 hour at 1 G vibration),
     7,920 individual pouch drops from 20 inches, and individual pouches
     being subjected to a static load of 200 lbs for 3 minutes.

  4) Freezing an MRE retort pouch does not destroy the food inside, but 
     repeated freezing increases the chances that the stretching and 
     stressing of the pouch will cause a break in a layer of the laminated 
     pouch. These pouches are made to withstand 1,000 flexes, but repetitive 
     freezing does increase the failure rate by a small fraction of a percent.


			 MRE STORAGE LIFE CHART



	 150
							      (130)
	 100                                          (100)     #
							#       #
	  75                                   (76)     #       #
Months                                          #       #       #
of        50                           (55)     #       #       #
Storage                                 #       #       #       #
	  25                   (22)     #       #       #       #
		       (5)      #       #       #       #       #
	       (1)      #       #       #       #       #       #
		#       #       #       #       #       #       #
	       120     110     100     90      80      70      60
				      Degree F.

BELOW 60 degrees Not enough data yet collected. However, projections are 
that the 130 months will be surpassed.

This chart contains storage life projections for MRE rations from the U.S. 
Army's Natick Research Laboratories and does not reflect a manufacturer's 
or vendor's guarantee.


NOTE: Time and temperature have a cumulative effect. For example, storage at
100 degrees for 11 months moved to 70 degrees would lose one half of the 70 
degree storage.



SECTION IV - NUTRITION CHART
(This Area Under Construction)



SECTION V - RECIPES
-------------------

Here are a few MRE recipes:


CHEESY HAM & POTATOES

   1- 8 oz. Escalloped Potatoes w/ham
   1- 5 oz. Potatoes Au Gratin
   Tobasco Sauce
   Pepper

Combine Escalloped Potatoes w/ham and Potatoes Au Gratin. Heat in microwave 
safe bowl for 2 minutes stir and heat 1 1/2 minutes longer; over open fire 
heat in skillet until hot.  Serve.



SPAGHETTI MEATBALLS

   1- 8 oz. Spaghetti w/meat Sauce
   1- 8 oz. Meatballs, Beef & Rice

Combine Spaghetti w/meat Sauce and Meatballs Beef & Rice. Heat microwave 
safe bowl for 2 minutes, stir and continue to heat for 1 1/2 minutes; or 
heat over open fire in a skillet until hot. Serve.



HAM Omelet w/CHEESE

   1 - 6 oz. Omelet w/ham
   1-1.5 oz. Cheese Spread

Heat Omelet w/ham in microwave safe bowl for 2 minutes; or heat over open 
fire in skillet until hot. Mix in cheese spread. Add Tobasco, Salt and 
Pepper for seasoning.



HAM CASSEROLE
   1 - 4.5 oz. Ham Slice
   1-1.5 oz. Cheese Spread
   1 -1.5 oz. Freeze-Dried Pasta

Reconstitute pasta in water heat until tender. Cut Ham Slice into chunks 
heat in microwave safe bowl until hot; or heat in skillet over open fire 
until hot. Combine Pasta, Ham chunks and Cheese Spread. Add Pepper for 
seasoning.



CHOCOLATE ICING
   
   1-1.5 oz. Cocoa
   1- Non-Dairy Creamer
   1 - Sugar

Mix Cocoa, Creamer and Sugar. Stir in small amounts of water until desired 
consistency is achieved. Spread icing over pound cakes crackers or nut cakes.



MOUSSE PUDDING

   1-1.5 oz. Cocoa
   1 - Non-Dairy Creamer

Mix Cocoa and Creamer together. Slowly add water to get desired consistency.
Serve.





================================== FINIS =====================================
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==============================================================================
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