From johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU Fri Nov 12 13:59:15 EST 1993
Article: 6911 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!csn!yuma!yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU!johnc
From: johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley)
Subject: Re: emergency generators
Summary: Honda
Message-ID: <Nov10.171714.69041@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Sender: John Cooley
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 17:17:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
References: <rickgo-091193223925@bellevue-ip30.halcyon.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: yuma.acns.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 34

In article <rickgo-091193223925@bellevue-ip30.halcyon.com> rickgo@halcyon.com 
(Rick Gordon) writes:
>I'm looking for a backup power generator, something in the 5KW range or

>What kind (manufacturer) of generator have people found to be the most
>reliable, most maintainable, and generally of sound design and manufacture?

>I've had recommendations towards Kubota and Honda, but they are pricey -
>are they worth it? 

I have a Honda that I bought used.  I friend of mine used it as supplemental
power for a house off the grid powered primarily by PVs.

The word from the power equipment place is that Honda makes a good back-up
unit, but Kohler is better as a primary source of power, and Onan is
better yet.

My 4.5KW Honda works well for backup simply because it starts easily after
sitting for months.  I keep a 5-gallon can of gas for it.  Every so often
I pour it into the truck and refill it so the gas doesn't get stale.

Our house is wired with a 50 amp subpanel which powers the water pump,
microwave, refrigerator, freezer and a few lights.  A double-pole switch
inside the house controls whether the subpanel gets its power from the
main panel (and thus the grid) or from a plug on the outside of the house.

To use the generator, I roll it out the basement door, plug it into the
house, throw the switch to middle position, start the generator, throw
the switch to "plug" position, and we're in business.  Water is especially
important.

             John Cooley




From kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 12 13:59:31 EST 1993
Article: 6912 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!headwall.Stanford.EDU!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!kaufman
From: kaufman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman)
Subject: Re: emergency generators
Message-ID: <1993Nov10.172532.3447@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
References: <rickgo-091193223925@bellevue-ip30.halcyon.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 17:25:32 GMT
Lines: 9

In article <rickgo-091193223925@bellevue-ip30.halcyon.com> rickgo@halcyon.com (Rick Gordon) writes:
>I've had recommendations towards Kubota and Honda, but they are pricey -
>are they worth it? I've had warnings against Coleman & Generac - are they
>warranted?

I have a 15 KVA Generac permanently wired into my house, with an automatic
transfer switch.  It has given me no problems in 8 years of use.  I can't
speak to the smaller units, but in general Generac isn't cheap.



From barrya@scout.East.Sun.COM Sat Nov 13 21:09:16 EST 1993
Article: 6935 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!koriel!newscast.West.Sun.COM!seven-up.East.Sun.COM!dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM!scout!barrya
From: barrya@scout.East.Sun.COM (Barry Andreasen - Sun BOS Hardware)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Detached Exterior Wood Stoves
Date: 11 Nov 1993 21:19:42 GMT
Organization: Sun
Lines: 35
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <2bua9e$8o8@dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scout.east.sun.com


On a recent trip to visit relatives in up-state New York, I saw
several farms with strange outbuildings beside their milking parlors,
and even the farmhouses.  When I asked I was told that these were wood
stoves that were used to heat the nearby buildings.
It seems that these setups heat either water or air that is then pipe
to the nearby buildings (in insulated carriers of course).  There were
several intriquing aspects of this.  First off, the insurance premiums
decreased tremendously since they required no additional protection
for the stove.  Secondly, there was no more hauling wood in from
outside and generating a mess in the house/milking parlor from the
wood burning activity.  The models I saw were also tremendous in size,
and could easily handle a 3-4' length.  Last, the stoves were equipped
with blowers that were connected to internal thermostats which
regulated the heat transferred to the building as well as the dampers
on the fire itself. 
The obvious downside was the reliance on power and the reduced
efficiency.

My question is does anyone have any real information on these.  The
ones I saw were built by a company called Taylor.  I don't know where
they are from, or if there are any other companies or models
available.  I am interested in one of these for my home and would like
to find out about their efficiency, cost, and anything else.
TIA
-barry andreasen
-- 
                                                       ___
    o       /------------------------------------/    /  / __          
   _-\ _ ~~< barry.andreasen@scout.East.Sun.COM <    /--<  _/ /- /- / /
  (*)<(*)   \------------------------------------\  /___/ (_)/  /  /_/ 
                                                              ______/
***********************************************************************
I said it, perhaps I meant it, but regardless, I speak only for myself!
***********************************************************************


From jonesm2@alum01.its.rpi.edu Sat Nov 13 21:12:17 EST 1993
Article: 6945 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!jonesm2
From: jonesm2@alum01.its.rpi.edu (Michael David Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Poultry novice looking for suggestions
Date: 13 Nov 1993 02:18:03 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <2c1g4s$iu3@usenet.rpi.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: alum01.its.rpi.edu
Keywords: poultry chickens

We're thinking of getting some laying hens. Does anybody have any
experience with or information about the following breeds of chicken?
  Ancona
  Black Minorca
  Brown Leghorn
We heard about them through the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy;
they're fairly rare breeds.

 Mike Jones |  jonesm2@rpi.edu

Number of governors who say they would veto any proposed state restrictions
on abortion: 30
Number who said this in 1989: 5
	- Harper's Index, September 1992


From wagner@mala.bc.ca Sat Nov 13 21:13:23 EST 1993
Article: 6946 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cyber2.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!mala.bc.ca!wagner
From: wagner@mala.bc.ca (TOM WAGNER, Wizzard of old Audio/Visual Equipment........Nanaimo Campus)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Woodheat Product Sources
Message-ID: <1993Nov13.155202.2775@malins.mala.bc.ca>
Date: 13 Nov 93 15:52:02 -0700
References: <2brqr3$5ic@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com>
Distribution: world
Organization: Malaspina College
Lines: 37

In article <2brqr3$5ic@delphinium.rtsg.mot.com>, sticha@blazer9.Berkeley.EDU (David A. Sticha) writes:
> I'd appreciate any phone numbers or addresses of companies specializing in
> wood heating products, specifically pre fab fireplaces and wood stoves.
> Mail order type businesses would be ideal.
> Thank you for your help.
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Dave Sticha (sticha@rtsg.mot.com)
>  Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group - Arlington Heights IL
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can specifically mention a few good sources of wood heat (one of which I am
and have been using for 6+ years), but if it is still in print I would 
recommend "The Harrowsmith, Sourcebook"     Published by "Harrowsmith
Magazine"  Camden East, Ontario, Canada K0K1J0

FYI, my stove is actually a furnace, 120kbtu, made by Newmac Mfg.  It is 100%
wood but can be bought in a dual fuel configuration.  Seems we in Canada have
a lot of wood burners.

BTW if you don't subscribe (no commercial pun intended) Harrowsmith is one
heck of a good book for the alternate living style (no, not living in geo-
desic Domes and eating roots and shoots, serious alternate living....)

          ____________      ____________      ____         _____
        /_____   ____/     /  _______  /     /    \      ,'    /
             /  /         /  /      / /     /  /\  \   ,' ,'/ /
            /  /         /  /      / /     /  /  \  \,' ,' / /
           /  /         /  /      / /     /  /    \   ,'  / /
          /  /         /  /______/ /     /  /      \,'   / /
         /__/         /___________/     /__/            /_/
     _____________________________________________________
    /____________________________________________________/
    Proud owner of a dog, cat, bird, old Tractor and a British
    Car  "If Lucas Electric made guns wars wouldn't start"




From rytis@telerama.pgh.pa.us Sat Nov 13 21:14:19 EST 1993
Article: 6938 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!telerama.pgh.pa.us!telerama.pgh.pa.us!not-for-mail
From: rytis@telerama.pgh.pa.us (Rytis Balciunas)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: National Hay Network
Date: 11 Nov 1993 19:45:48 -0500
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <2bumbs$ist@telerama.pgh.pa.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: telerama.pgh.pa.us
Summary: Locating hay
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


The November 11, 1993 "Farm and Dairy" has a listing for locating hay
nationwide. It's called the Purdue Hay Locator, and is for farmers wanting
to sell hay, as well as those who want to buy hay. The service is free to
both and requires a computer-to-computer connection. 

Access is 300, 1200, 2400 baud, 8 bits, no parity, one stop bit at
(317)494-6643. Voice contact to report problems is (317)494-8333.

I thought this might be of some use to those of you affected by the
floods/droughts this year...
-- 
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Rytis T. Balciunas (rytis@telerama.pgh.pa.us)
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------


From CJC6psuvm.psu.edu Wed Nov 24 21:25:19 EST 1993
Article: 6943 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cjc6$
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 13:42:29 EST
From: <CJC6$@psuvm.psu.edu>
Message-ID: <93316.134229CJC6$@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Vermi-Composting
References: <1993Nov11.225012.10749@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
Lines: 46


> From: lockekt@cnsvax.uwec.edu
> Message-ID: <1993Nov11.225012.10749@cnsvax.uwec.edu>

> Does anyone out there "Vermi-compost?

> Just curious.

> Thanks
> Kelly


I'v been "raising" worms for about a year now in the basement of my house.
So far, the little critters have done ok and the cats have left the boxes
alone.  I built two boxes from 1"x6" boards.  I use one for a while until it
gets filled, and then move the worms to the other box and let the first box
sit and cook for a while longer.  After a month or so, I empty the box and
let it dry out before using again.

I've never sold worms.  I just let them die a natural death and become
a part of the compost.

My house plants seem to like the compost and I planted my saffron
crocuses in a mix of garden soil and worm compost.  They have done great.

I have not had a problem with worm tea, but I cover with a black plastic
trash bag so some moisture escapes that way.  Some also escapes out the
bottom where the boards meet.  I raised the boxes slightly and they sit near
one of the floor drains.  I have not noticed any mositure on the floor.

You may have more of a concern with this being in an apartment.  I believe
Real Goods sells a worm compost box with a spout to remove worm tea.  This
could then be added to plants as fertilzer.  You might give them a call at
(800)762-7325 and ask for a catalogue.

I use a mixed bedding: chopped up pizza boxes, a *very* little manure, a
little dirt, some peat moss and some shredded newspaper.  The pizza boxes
because I work with a group of students at Penn State who eat much late
night pizza and I hated seeing the waste basket full of unrecycled material.
The worms do not seem to be affected by it.  I use this strange combo,
because that is what I had on hand the first time and it seems to work.

Best of luck.

Margaret



From aud@ncd.com Wed Nov 24 21:25:54 EST 1993
Article: 6958 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!ncd.com!newshost.ncd.com!not-for-mail
From: aud@ncd.com (Audrey Ishizaki)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Vermi-Composting
Date: 15 Nov 1993 12:22:23 -0800
Organization: Network Computing Devices, Inc
Lines: 28
Sender: aud@ncd.com
Message-ID: <2c8odv$oas$1@verbosa.ncd.com>
References: <1993Nov11.225012.10749@cnsvax.uwec.edu> <93316.134229CJC6$@psuvm.psu.edu>
Reply-To: aud@ncd.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: verbosa.ncd.com


I've used worms to eat my kitchen scraps for several years, now.  I've used
a couple of different methods.  I live in California (SF Bay area), which
has mild winters (rarely freezes).  I've come to keep my worms outside, in
home-made worm boxes.  I get a problem with fruit-flies when I keep them
indoors.  How do others avoid this problem?

I've used shredded newspaper/computer paper (I used the office shredder -
very easy and cheap!) as filler, but now used peat moss (bought at the
garden supply store) (be sure to pre-moisten the peat).  I've used
styrofoam coolers (with air holes drilled in the tops), but they chipped
after a while.  I've also used styrofoam "chests" used to transport frozen
seafood, which worked better.  I'm now experimenting with a plastic box
with holes drilled into the bottom (to encourage the worms to aereate the
soil beneath my box (I plan to move it periodically in my garden).  After
I dump the kitchen scraps in the box, I sprinkle the peat over the top
(to help cover the food scraps and to accelerate the rotting - worms like
their food soft - not much teeth!).

I had to devise a "lock" for my box, too, to prevent my dog from unwanted
entry (I used plastic locking ties and a couple of clips).  He can't open
the box any longer, but he sometimes knocks it over.

I'm really happy having worms to "compost" my kitchen scraps - especially
during the winter, when I don't want to walk all the way out to the compost
bins.

audrey ishizaki


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!dartvax!flashmag!waltervj Thu Dec  2 19:57:36 EST 1993
Article: 7040 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!dartvax!flashmag!waltervj
From: dartvax!flashmag!waltervj
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: deer
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 20:46:11 EST
Organization: Flash Magazine - BlackLightning Publishing, Inc.
Message-ID: <CKwGRIUV.i5coeg@flashmag.UUCP>
Reply-To: flashmag!waltervj@dartmouth.edu
Distribution: usa
X-Mailer: UUCP/Connect - Macintosh Release: 1.6v4
Lines: 21


In article <2dgesiINNr0e@gareth.cs.purdue.edu> (misc.rural), tubis@cs.purdue.edu (Charlotte I. Tubis) writes:
> 
> I live in the woods and two deer are on my driveway every morning.
> How can I get rid of the deer without killing them?

A dog, preferably large and well trained, will tend to keep deer back
away from the house and out of gardens. Gardens are most people's
problem with dear. In the above I said large because some people
in the past have mentioned that the deer in their area ignore their
small dogs. We have a large dog and he keeps the deer, coons, cats,
bears, and humans at respectable distance from the house. (He's tied
unless we are outside or able to monitor him although he also tends
to stay right around the house). Well trained so he does stay around
the house and does _not_ bark excessively. A dog that barks in appropriately
is a problem. Train your dog not to bark except at specific, near things.
You, he, the neighbors, and the wildlife will all be happier. While
your at it train him to obey verbal commands such as heel, stay, sit,
down, etc. If you're lucky he'll also train you so the communications
can be two way. Training is hard work that can take many months or
even years but is well worth the effort.


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze.ucs.indiana.edu!amirza Thu Dec  2 19:57:55 EST 1993
Article: 7041 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze.ucs.indiana.edu!amirza
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: deer
Message-ID: <CHF37w.M5r@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN
References: <2dgesiINNr0e@gareth.cs.purdue.edu> <1993Decc1.172059.13835@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <2diri8$oh0@samba.oit.unc.edu> <eanYt*380@world.std.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 16:59:56 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <eanYt*380@world.std.com>,
Bernie Cosell <cosell@world.std.com> wrote:
>In article <2diri8$oh0@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Ricky Roberson writes:
>
>} In article <1993Dec1.172059.13835@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> tgpt_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Tom Guptill) writes:
>
>} >	I know that in New Hampshire, dogs chasing deer are shot by Fish and
>} >Game officers.  (You know, the guys with the 'brake for moose' stickers! (:
>} >) Maybe it's not the best idea to try... 
>} 
>}   Well, I wish those guys as much luck as *I* had recently.  Maybe one of
>}   deer will hit *HIS* truck instead of mine, and he can pay $1353.76 to
>}   get it fixed! ...
>
>Does anyone know if those little 'deer whistles' you can mount to the
>grille on your car/truck actually work?


I believe CHP (California Highway Patrol)  did a study where half
their vehicles were equipped with deer whistles.  There was no
discernable difference in the rate of car/deer accidents.  This was a
few years ago, and I can't remember where it was published.  Anyone
else out there remember?
-- 
Anmar Mirza   #Chief of Tranquility  #I thought that they were angels, much
EMT-D N9ISY   #Base, Lawrence Co. IN #to my suprise, I climbed aboard their
Sawyer        #Somewhere out on the  #starship, and headed for the skies...
Networks Tech.#Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#Come sail away, come sail away with me


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!batcomputer!dinah.tc.cornell.edu!shore Thu Dec  2 19:58:19 EST 1993
Article: 7042 of misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!batcomputer!dinah.tc.cornell.edu!shore
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: deer
Date: 2 Dec 1993 17:48:07 GMT
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Lines: 15
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <2dl9on$b2t@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU>
References: <1993Decc1.172059.13835@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <2diri8$oh0@samba.oit.unc.edu> <eanYt*380@world.std.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dinah.tc.cornell.edu

In article <eanYt*380@world.std.com> cosell@world.std.com writes:
>Does anyone know if those little 'deer whistles' you can mount to the
>grille on your car/truck actually work?

This is just anecdotal, but deer seem to be better about
staying out of my way when I've got them on my vehicle.  I've
never hit a deer with them or without them, but I've come a
lot closer without them.

HOWEVER, reports are that the whistling sound upsets horses.
I'd rather not run the risk of making a horse go ballistic
with someone on its back, so I currently do not have deer
whistles on my truck.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu


From samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!shaw Thu Dec  2 19:58:55 EST 1993
Article: 7044 of misc.rural
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Path: samba.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!shaw
From: shaw@fc.hp.com (Shaw Moldauer)
Subject: Re: deer
Sender: news@fc.hp.com (news daemon)
Message-ID: <CHF6Ez.9DF@fc.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 18:08:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
References: <1993Decc1.172059.13835@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <2diri8$oh0@samba.oit.unc.edu> <eanYt*380@world.std.com> <2dl9on$b2t@fitz.TC.Cornell.EDU>
Nntp-Posting-Host: hpshaw.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Lines: 27

Melinda Shore (shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <eanYt*380@world.std.com> cosell@world.std.com writes:
: >Does anyone know if those little 'deer whistles' you can mount to the
: >grille on your car/truck actually work?

: This is just anecdotal, but deer seem to be better about
: staying out of my way when I've got them on my vehicle.  I've
: never hit a deer with them or without them, but I've come a
: lot closer without them.

	Same for me, knock on wood. I have seen the deer trun tail and run
with the whistles on all occasions. Without whistles, the deer hang out in
front of the car.

: HOWEVER, reports are that the whistling sound upsets horses.
: I'd rather not run the risk of making a horse go ballistic
: with someone on its back, so I currently do not have deer
: whistles on my truck.

	The whistles only sound when you are going over 25-30 mph.
Who in their right mind would go faster than that when passing a horse
with rider on the side of a road?

				-Shaw

: --
:        Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu


From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu!rrb Sun Jan 23 16:14:59 EST 1994
Article: 7585 of misc.rural
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu!rrb
From: "Marcus L. Endicott" <mendicott@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.rural,uiuc.general,misc.misc
Subject: Air Force Threatens Owyhee Canyonla
Date: 22 Jan 1994 06:03:06 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 133
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <2hqfiq$t0q@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu
Originator: rrb@deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.backcountry:34884 misc.rural:7585 misc.misc:11904


Owyhee Canyonlands: NO BOMBING RANGE!

THE US AIR FORCE wants to steal your land, water and wildlife and the
State of Idaho is holding open your pocket to get at it.  Strong words?
Not strong enough for this remarkable twisting of public policy that
comes at such great environmental cost.

The Owyhee Canyonlands is a mostly unroaded, biologically diverse region
in southwestern Idaho and adjacent parts of Oregon and Nevada.  It
contains beautiful undammed rivers and wild country; a quarter of the
nation's California desert bighorn sheep and the highest density and
productivity of pronghorn antelope habitat in all of Idaho are here.  It
is also home to the Shoshone-Paiute on the Duck Valley reservation and
to their ancestors as shown by extraordinarily rich archaeological sites
throughout the region. The rivers and canyons are popular for
recreationists exploring this desert environment.

The Air Force wants a bombing range, and Idaho is falling over itself to
give them one in the Owyhee.  If they believed they had a credible case,
they would go to Congress and request a military withdrawal of these BLM
lands. That's what they are supposed to do.  But Congress would never
approve this pork-barrel scheme.  So the Air Force and Idaho have cooked
up a little deal: BLM trades Idaho the proposed bombing range area for
someplace else, then Idaho lends it to the Air Force.  No need to tell
Congress; no need to fully justify the need for the range.  Just do it.

The Owyhee Canyonlands of southwestern Idaho and Oregon and Nevada are
one of the nation's premier desert jewels.  This little-known area will
require great effort to save; let's not let it become another place no
one knew before it was too late.  Write a letter today! A bombing range
in the Owyhee Canyonlands means jet fighters, heavy bombers, tankers and
radar planes converging over the bombing range for massive training
exercises at least once a month.  Day-to-day pilot training, training
with laser systems, and low-altitude training at night will also occur.
In the approximately 25,000 acres of impact zones the public will locked
out and around these areas 6,812 flights per year will take place.
Thundering noise from fighter jets flying at 100 feet above the ground
will shatter the desert solitude.  Supersonic (boom producing) flights
will be allowed at 10,000 feet above the ground.

Throughout the rest of Owyhee County and portions of Oregon and Nevada,
flights can be as low as 100 feet and 9,209 are planned per year by the
Air Force.  More than 30 mobile threat emitter sites will be scattered
in the region requiring road construction and bringing the impacted area
to about 3 million acres.

Fires will be more frequent as a result of the bombing activities. The
bombs include incendiary charges for spotting.  Burning flares will be
dropped as well as radar jamming aluminum chaff.

Imagine just the noise--the sheer thundering sonic power--of this
proposal.   Add the other impacts, and the end of the Owyhee is obvious.

  The Native American history here is rich--and continues to this day.
The proposed bombing range includes a National Register Archaeologic
District which contains hundreds of ancient petroglyphs.

The bombing range would severely impact 15 Wilderness Study Areas and
candidate Wild and Scenic Rivers.  There is an extraordinary sense of
solitude to this land.  It is a place that should be protected forever.
A bombing range?  Absolutely not.  The diversity of plants and animals
in the Owyhee Canyonlands is magnificent.  YOUR RIGHT to write your
government is one of the greatest gifts we have as US citizens.  Too few
use it.  The following points should be helpful in preparing your
response to JUST SAY NO!  The environmental costs are too high:

WILDLIFE:  The Owyhee is home for one quarter of the nation's rare
California bighorn sheep.  In fact, it is the sole interstate source of
transplant stock for nine western states.  It is also critical habitat
for pronghorn antelope (the highest density and productivity in Idaho),
redband trout and peregrine falcons.

SOLITUDE:  The entire Owyhee region will face dramatic disruption from
the sheer sonic power of the aircraft in use around the bombing range.
As many as 9,209  600 mph low-level flights per year with supersonic
(boom producing) flights 10,000 feet above the ground will significantly
alter the rural environment of this three-state area.

The social costs of the bombing range are also too high:

ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE:  The proposed bombing range will have an adverse
impact on lands of the Shoshone-Paiute people at the Duck Valley
Reservation.  The impact site at the range includes native burial
grounds.  Small ranching communities will also be faced with major
disturbances under the busy airspace.

RECREATION:  There are greater and greater numbers of people using the
Owyhee country for recreation including whitewater floaters exploring
the wild canyons and hunters and hikers enjoying the challenging
country.

Finally, the Idaho Training Range is not needed:

Some argue the bombing range is needed to keep Idaho's Mt. Home Air
Force base open.  That is not true.  This base is not on any current
base closure list and a recent GAO report includes a Defense Department
statement that the Air Force does not need this range.  Furthermore, an
existing range in Utah is only 20 minutes flying time from the Mt. Home
base.  Who decides?  You decide! But only by acting.  Please write
today.  Thank You!  THE AIR FORCE: An Air Force draft environmental
impact statement (DEIS) is now out for public comment.  Using the points
from this alert, please write to the following addresses today
expressing opposition to the bombing range!  The deadline is Feb. 9,
1994. Send to:  Ms. Brenda Cook HQ ACC/CEVA 29 Andrews St., Ste 102
Langley AFB, VA  23996-3328

SEC. BABBITT:  In order for the Air Force and Idaho scheme of bypassing
Congress to work, Interior Sec. Bruce Babbitt must allow the land swap.
Write Babbitt and oppose the bombing range and the BLM/Idaho land
transfer.  Sec. Bruce Babbitt,  Department of Interior, 1849 C St. NW,
Washington, DC 20240

CONGRESS:  Rep. Larry LaRocco has the Owyhee Canyonlands in his
district.  He has not yet decided whether to support protecting this
region.  Write or call LaRocco and ask him to oppose the range and
demand full Congressional oversite.  Rep. Larry LaRocco, House Office
Building, Washington, DC 20515 - 202-225-6611 or 208-343-4211.

It's very important that lots of comments come in on the DEIS, so if you
only have time for only one thing, send that letter.  If you can't get
to a letter to Babbitt and LaRocco, just send them a copy of the DEIS
letter.  If we don't act together we will lose! Early Notice!  Join your
friends and fellow supporters of the Owyhee Canyonlands at a special
morning event on January 29 in Boise.  For more information call
208-384-1023 or 343-8153.  We need your help!

* ------------------------------------------------ *
* IDAHO RIVERS UNITED   Internet: iru@igc.apc.org  *
* P.O. Box 633             Phone: 1-800-574-7481   *
* Boise, ID 83701            Fax: 1-208-343-8184   *
* ------------------------------------------------ *



From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news2.uunet.ca!ionews.io.org!r-node.io.org!nobody Sun Jan 23 16:16:24 EST 1994
Article: 7586 of misc.rural
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!news2.uunet.ca!ionews.io.org!r-node.io.org!nobody
From: ndallen@r-node.io.org (Nigel Allen)
Newsgroups: misc.rural,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Rural community revitalization
Date: 23 Jan 1994 10:31:12 -0500
Organization: Internex Online (io.org) Data: 416-363-3783  Voice: 416-363-8676
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <2hu580$g29@r-node.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: r-node.io.org
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu misc.rural:7586 talk.politics.misc:138630 alt.activism:53852

Here is a press release from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
I downloaded the press release from the PR On-Line BBS in
Maryland at 410-363-0834. I do not work for the U.S. government.

 Rural Areas to Benefit from President's Community Revitalization
Program Says USDA; Espy to Designate Three Zones, 30 Communities
 To: National Desk, Agriculture Writer
 Contact: Steve Kinsella or Mary Dixon, 202-720-4623, both of the
          U.S. Department of Agriculture

   WASHINGTON, Jan. 17 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Agriculture Secretary
Mike Espy today joined President Clinton at the White House to
launch the application process for the administration's Empowerment
Zones and Enterprise Communities (EZ/EC) revitalization program.
   "President Clinton is committed to making our communities
vibrant with job opportunities for all," said Espy. "We know that
America works when Americans work.  The Empowerment Zones and
Enterprise Communities will bring together all segments in an
area -- from government officials, to business leaders, to church
leaders and to nonprofit organizers.  All will have the common goal
of revitalizing their communities and creating jobs.
   "Because this program is built around strategic planning
development by rural communities, it will help them achieve their own
vision for the kind of community they want to have in the 21st
Century."
   Three Empowerment Zones and 30 Enterprise Communities will be
designated specifically for rural areas after a competitive
application process.  The rural designations will be made by Espy.
The six Empowerment Zones and 65 Enterprise Community designations
for urban areas will be made by Housing and Urban Development
Secretary Henry G. Cisneros.
   All designations will be made in consultation with the
President's Community Enterprise Board, comprised of Cabinet members
and advisors to the President on domestic issues.  The board is
chaired by Vice President Gore.
   Empowerment Zones and Enterprise Communities will receive
special consideration for various federal programs and other
assistance, including social service block grants, new tax exempt
Facility Bonds, tax breaks for employment, and other special
consideration for existing federal programs.
   The difference in the benefits for Empowerment Zones and
Enterprise Communities is that Empowerment Zones will qualify for tax
credits for each worker who resides in the zones; Section 179
expending is increased; and grants are substantially larger.
   One special feature in the EZ/EC program will benefit the
areas that apply but are not designated.  Communities that apply but
are not chosen will qualify for assistance in seeking regulation
waivers for federal programs and if there is a Community Development
Corporation within the jurisdiction, that corporation can qualify to
receive tax preferred contributions from donors.  Eight CDCs in
rural areas will be selected under this separate program.
   To apply for a designation under the EZ/EC program,
comprehensive strategic plans must be submitted.  The plans must
emphasize four principles: 1. Economic opportunity, including job
creation; 2. Community development, including comprehensive
approaches to access to affordable housing, human services, economic
development, public safety and a clean environment; 3. Community
partnership, involving participation of all segments of the
community; and 4. Strategic vision for change, identifying clear
goals for the community.
   Poverty, unemployment and other need factors will be critical
in determining eligibility but play a less significant role than the
four key principles.
   "This is not government as usual," said Under Secretary of
Agriculture Bob Nash, who helped to create and who will oversee the
program at USDA.  "The development program provides a means for rural
towns and regions to work together to develop their own plans to
overcome poverty, unemployment and other social problems.
   "President Clinton's EZ/EC program is one more way in which we
are reinventing the federal government to be more responsive to
community con- cerns."
   Applications for the EZ/EC program will require communities to
submit very few forms.  Instead, the key will be a comprehensive
development plan that involves community residents, local and state
governments, nonprofit and private sector groups and organizations,
regional planning agencies, and other private and public entities.
   In the spirit of Vice President Gore's goal to make government
and information more accessible to Americans all across the nation,
USDA will use the Internet Mail System to receive questions and
inquiries for more information on the EZ/EC program. Rural and
urban communities may receive information or applications from
Internet by sending a message to info@ezec.usda.gov.
   People interested in receiving a copy of an application or
getting more details about the program should contact a state office
of the Farmers Home Administration or call 202-690-1045. The deadline
to apply will be 4 p.m. EDT, Thursday, June 30. Applications may be
mailed or hand-delivered. Rural applications should be mailed to:
USDA, Rural Development Administration, EZ/EC Team, Room 5405, 14th
and Independence Avenue, S.W., Washington, D.C.  20250-3200.
   Interested individuals or groups are encouraged to attend one
of the workshops on the application process being held around the
country.  The rural workshops will be held in Charleston, W.Va.,
Feb. 8; Lumberton, N.C., Feb. 9; McAllen, Texas, Feb. 11; Greenville,
Miss., Feb. 14; Las Vegas, N.M., Feb. 17; Atlanta, Ga., Feb. 23; and
Kansas City, Mo., Feb. 28.  For information about the workshops, call
1-800-645-4712 (fax 806-894-0340).
    ------
   Editors:  Not all computer systems recognize the "at" sign.
It is an important part of the e-mail address listed above and
should be replaced for the question mark in the following example:
   info?ezec.usda.gov

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770 [voice]/




From bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!news.cic.net!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!UNLVM.UNL.EDU!IAST3489 Thu Jan 27 23:03:34 EST 1994
Article: 7614 of misc.rural
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!oldnews2.cis.umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!destroyer!news.cic.net!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!UNLVM.UNL.EDU!IAST3489
From: IAST3489@UNLVM.UNL.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Holistic Resource Management
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 14:35:07 CDT
Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <16F4ACD1B.IAST3489@UNLVM.UNL.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlvm.unl.edu
X-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2

Hi!  My name is Brenda Younkin.  I am preparing to give a paper on Holistic
Resource Management and I was wondering if anyone had any question, comments,
or ideas on the matter.  I have taken the Intro course and have studied the
practice for about four years and I feel very comfortable with the grazing
application.  However, I was wondering if anyone has applied it to a feedlot,
farming or any other type of operation other than (cattle) ranching.  Or if
anyone has any comments on the cattle producing end I would like to hear
those too!  Please contact me at my email address as that is easier
for me to access.  I will try to get back to all that "write".
 
Thanks!
 
Brenda Younkin
 
 
 


