Subject: American foulbrood

From: [email-masked] (Jeroen Krabbendam)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:58:42 GMT

Happy new year to all.

I would like to know how the governments in various countries deal
with Amrican foulbrood.
Here in the Netherlands the disease is infecting more and more colonies
and the governments reaction is dramatic in my opion. All hives and colonies 
will be destroyed. Really, your out of business if Afb strikes at you. I read
that in Germany one has a  method of dealing with the disease. How is it in
your country?

Thanks for help.
--
 
-- Jeroen --
Jeroen Krabbendam, Department of Computer Science,
Utrecht University, P.O box 80089, NL-3508 TB The Netherlands

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From: [email-masked] (Malcolm Roe)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:29:17 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Jeroen Krabbendam) writes:
>will be destroyed. Really, your out of business if Afb strikes at you.

In the UK the situation is the same.  Regulations require the
destruction of all infected colonies by fire -- not just the bees but
the hives as well.  As a consequence AFB is rare.  I've only seen it
once and that was in someone else's bees.  I think destruction is a
price well worth paying to keep AFB at this low level.  Beekeeping
associations here provide insurance.  It's very cheap -- only about
GBP0.30 ($0.45) per hive per year.  Is there a similar scheme in the
Netherlands?  If not, perhaps Dutch beekeepers should organise one.

-- 
Malcolm Roe                                Phone  :  +44 1442 345104
Crosfield Electronics Ltd                  Fax    :  +44 1442 232301
Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK        E-mail :  [email-masked] 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Aaron Morris)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 11:18:54 EST

In article <[email-masked]>
[email-masked] (Jeroen Krabbendam) writes:
 
>with Amrican foulbrood...  How is it in your country?
>
 
I'm not sure if there is a federal policy in the States for AFB or if
the issue is handled individually (and perhaps differently) by each
state.  I am SURE of New York state's policy for treatment for AFB,
which I learned from the school of hard knocks.  AFB is treated as a
nuisance to the ENTIRE STATE!  Owners of infected equipment are cited by
the state and given two weeks to abate the nuisance, subject to $200
fines per day per piece of equipment if the nuisance is not abated.  In
my case that amounted to almost $3000 per day!  A double brood chamber,
bottom board, queen excluder, single super, inner and outer cover times
two hives times $200 adds up very quickly!  Needless to say, I was
quick to abate the nuisance.  To abate the nuisance one must destroy and
burn the bees, and burn the frame and combs.  Wooden bodies, supers,
bottom boards and covers may be reused, but they must first be scorched
by flame.  Treatment by fire is the only SANCTIONED treatment for AFB
in New York state.  Irradiation of equipment is an effective treatment
for AFB, but it's hard to find a site to nuke one's equipment and the
state doesn't sanction such treatment anyway.
   There are schools of thought emerging that perhaps the treatment is
too drastic and that perhaps treatment with drugs (terramycin) might be
more appropriate.  However, that idea runs into years of "burn 'em"
attitudes and has yet to catch on as a sanctioned viable alternative.
For the time being, if AFB then FLAME ON!
 
Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!

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From: [email-masked] (David 'Igor' Latter)
Date: 6 Jan 1995 09:32:51 +1100

Here in Australia, (at least in Victoria) all hives with AFB are destroyed
by burning the whole hive. However, as all good beekeepers are registered
with the Dept. of Agriculture, they are compensated for the los of hive(s)
the amount depends on the condition of hive materials etc. The fee for
registration, $11 per year for those with less than 150 hives.
With such methods AFB is not really common. I personally have never seen it
and I hope it stays that way! :-)
I have heard of commercial operations losing over 100 hives in one hit.
There is an option to burning, that is gamma radiation to steralize the hive,
it costs a bit, but at least you save your boxes... but the compensation goes
down, I think.
This is only relevant to Victorian (Aust) beekeepers, but chalkbrood is
now here in Victoria. I have heard of two outbreaks up near the Murray, but
the third I'm not sure of. Check your hives.

                David

-- 

Could the last support staff member that leaves, please turn off the lights...

-- 

Could the last support staff member that leaves, please turn off the lights...

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From: [email-masked] (Rick Hough)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 13:20:47 -0500

> that in Germany one has a  method of dealing with the disease. How is it in

AFB here tends to be considered as a "serious, but treatable" condition,
which (fortunately) tends to occur relatively infrequently. In the USA,
the policy is established by each state (there is no uniform federal
policy on this that I am aware of). In New England, the prevaling
attitude is to treat minor AFB outbreaks with medication, and if the
colonies respond, you are allowed to keep them. If the outbreak is
severe, or the colonies fail to respond to treatment, they are destroyed
by fire. The determination of whether a specific situation is "severe"
or not is left to the discretion of each apiary inspector, so there 
tends to be a lack of uniformity on the enforcement side of this.

Rick Hough, a beekeeper from NE Massachusetts.

****************************************************
* Rick Hough             * email: [email-masked] *
* TASC                   * Phone: (617) 942-2000   *
* 55 Walkers Brook Drive * FAX:   (617) 942-7100   *
* Reading, MA 01867      *                         *
****************************************************
SET DISCLAIMER ON
The above is my opinion. Similarity to anyone else's
opinion is pure coincidence.

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: 6 Jan 1995 03:53:15 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Rick Hough <[email-masked]> wrote:

>In New England, the prevaling

  In VA the same scenario exists. When I was an inspector, the good
beekeepers either had no foul or cleared it up quickly.
The lazy/clueless/shiftless beekeepers always had foul, and always had
hives burned. ( I never burned any in two years, although I burned some
equipment at a beekeeper's request)
  VA employs ETOH to to treat comb without destroying it, but I found a few
foul cases with the old VA ETOH stickers on the hives. Its also expensive
for the state and you can only do a few yards a week.
 If you have foulbrood and don't want to mess around, burn the brood comb,
scorch the boxes/tops/bottoms and mark the honey supers, so that next time
you use them they may be queen excluded so that no brood is reared in them
and no AFB may start.
 Lots use mega medication. As a blanket treatment. If they stopped, they'd
break down with AFB everywhere. So what to do?
Buy inspected hives, and anyone who tells you "they used to have 200
hives..." is someone you might not want to deal with.
:)
Adam
-- 
____________________________________________________________________________ 
Adam Finkelstein                     Price Hall 
Entomology                   VA Tech, Blacksburg, VA  24001-0325 
[email-masked] ______________________________________________________

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From: [email-masked] (Allen Dick)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:09:26 GMT

>by fire. The determination of whether a specific situation is "severe"

There is to my knowledge, no good reason why infected wax should not
be rendered and saved.  Although the spores are not killed in the process,
experiments have shown that there is no risk of infection from the wax,
even if used for foundation.

The largest problem is to ensure that the wax combs, honey etc are 
kept from bee access until rendered.

There is a lot of valuable wax in a box of combs.

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 07:49:26 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Adam

> for the state and you can only do a few yards a week.

Adam--by "ETOH" do you mean ethanol, or are you talking about ethylene
oxide?  Or something else entirely?  I had wondered whether ethylene oxide
would be effective in sterilizing hive bodies, and this sounds like an
appropriate time to ask.

--
John Taylor    (W3ZID)     |  "The opinions expressed are those of the
[email-masked] |   writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company."

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: 9 Jan 1995 13:11:43 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>would be effective in sterilizing hive bodies, and this sounds like an
 Ooops. ETO. Ethylene oxide.
Pardon me.
Adam

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From: [email-masked] (Aaron Morris)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 08:28:13 EST

>even if used for foundation.
 
I'vs got to ask, "What experiments?"  If it's true that AFB can't be
transmitted through rendered wax then I'd like to know the source of this
information before I take any chances.  If the spores aren't killed when
the wax is rendered, then how can the wax be safe to use?  My only
experience with AFB left me with the impression that it's not something
that you want to take risks with.  Please give the source for these
experimental findings.  Thanks.

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: 9 Jan 1995 21:18:35 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Allen Dick 546-2588 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>I don't know whether rendering trmperatures just weaken the spores, or
>maybe the french frying during melting chokes them with wax in their pores
>(if they have any) or what.  Maybe the spores are stuck inside the wax 
>and can't get to the larvae in sufficient numbers to get anything going.  
>It takes more than one spore to cause an infection I believe -- and 
>please don't ask *me* to look it up :-).
>

 Sounds plausible. 
I'll try to find the articles this week and if I do, I'll post the bib.
info.

 Look for the upcoming faq.
Adam

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From: [email-masked] (Allen Dick 546-2588)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 20:55:48 GMT

Aaron Morris ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In article <[email-masked]>
: [email-masked] (Allen Dick) writes:
:  
: >
: >There is to my knowledge, no good reason why infected wax should not
: >be rendered and saved.  Although the spores are not killed in the process,
: >experiments have shown that there is no risk of infection from the wax,
: >even if used for foundation.
: >
:  
: I'vs got to ask, "What experiments?"  If it's true that AFB can't be
: transmitted through rendered wax then I'd like to know the source of this
: information before I take any chances.  If the spores aren't killed when
: the wax is rendered, then how can the wax be safe to use?  My only
: experience with AFB left me with the impression that it's not something
: that you want to take risks with.  Please give the source for these
: experimental findings.  Thanks.

Well, I don't know offhand -- It's been many years since I've even given 
the matter much thought -- it's sort of like walking or riding a bike.

So, short of taking out a text and doing research that doesn't really 
interest me, I can't help you there.

However the real proof (experiment) is that diseased wax is rendered every
day in North America and made into foundation that beekeepers who don't
believe in medication or buying used equipment then put into their hives
and have drawn into perfectly healthy combs. 

I maintain that ABF is a disease that just barely makes it through its
window of opportunity.  If anything delays its development, it just
doesn't happen.  (That's how/why drugs work on it). 

-- 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                      VE6CFK
Rural Route One, Swalwell,  Alberta  Canada  T0M 1Y0
Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588      Email: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: 11 Jan 1995 18:59:43 GMT

>interest me, I can't help you there.

 Looking through the Apicultural Abstracts I found two articles that are
sort of relevant to this topic.

 (In Russian)
_Don't allow spreading of honeybee foul brood disease through wax
refineries_, Smirnov, A.M., _Veterinariya_,(5):92-94 (1966).

 " Data are provided to show the survival of _Bacillus larvae_, _B.alvei_,
and the two species together in wax, wax residues, washing water etc. at
various stages in the refining process."

 _Preserving beehive parts with paraffin wax_, Cook, V.A., _N.Z. Jl.
Agric._, 117 (1): 60-61; 63,65 (1968).

 " Immersion for 2 minutes at about 316 degrees F (158 degrees C ) was
sufficient to sterilize equipment taken from hives infected with _Bacillus
larvae_."

 Draw you own conclusions.
 I'm confused.
Adam

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From: [email-masked] (Allen Dick 546-2588)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:03:21 GMT

:  (In Russian)
: _Don't allow spreading of honeybee foul brood disease through wax
: refineries_, Smirnov, A.M., _Veterinariya_,(5):92-94 (1966).

:  " Data are provided to show the survival of _Bacillus larvae_, _B.alvei_,
: and the two species together in wax, wax residues, washing water etc. at
: various stages in the refining process."

:  _Preserving beehive parts with paraffin wax_, Cook, V.A., _N.Z. Jl.
: Agric._, 117 (1): 60-61; 63,65 (1968).

:  " Immersion for 2 minutes at about 316 degrees F (158 degrees C ) was
: sufficient to sterilize equipment taken from hives infected with _Bacillus
: larvae_."

I'd be curious about the vigor and viability  of the spores after wax 
rendering.  I know they (can) survive, and mentioned that in my original 
post.

However the question is: can they -- in any likelihood -- infect a healthy 
hive when present only in foundation?

As far as I can recall, the answer is 'no' -- not in any probability. I
personally put about 1,000 (comb) supers a year of fresh foundation (from
known renderers of diseased combs) onto unmedicated hives.  The comb is
for export and tested to the limit of technology (and beyond) for *any*
antibiotic activity and cannot say I recall seeing any unusual breakdown
og AFB as a result. 

(By the way, I have several hundred like new Ross Round supers for sale 
-- I'm cutting back a bit)

I'd be curious what the Russian study actually says, and if it has any 
credibility.  It could well just be saying: "Don't run the wash water out 
on the ground where bees will pick it up and take it home, but the wax is 
safe".???

Or it could be saying "no hazard".  Somehow, I doubt the latter, tho'.
-- 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                      VE6CFK
Rural Route One, Swalwell,  Alberta  Canada  T0M 1Y0
Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588      Email: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Kerr)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:40:08 +1200

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Allen
> even if used for foundation.

I believe the "Weed" process originated by the Root company last century
which heats the wax to 160 degrees Celsius for a certain time, and filters
it thru something like porcelain, is the only sure way of rendering
diseased wax.

Anything less than this is too risky. Live spores in foundation will wipe
out a hive quick as look at you.

-- 
Peter Kerr                             bodger
School of Music                        chandler
University of Auckland                 neo-Luddite

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From: [email-masked] (bill fernihough)
Date: 15 Jan 1995 05:20:06 GMT

> out a hive quick as look at you.

One way around all this is to go to plastic foundation.  I found that it
was just wonderful here in the Vancouver Canada area, having most luck
with the DADANT size comb.  Itried two things, a full one piece comb, made
of plastic, and secondly, wooden frames with plastic foundation, was
coated.   gets rid of moth problems too.