Subject: Six super winter!?

From: [email-masked] (Jordan Schwartz)
Date: 23 Jan 1995 20:45:13 GMT

The balmy weather we've been enjoying up here in the Pacific Northwest 
allowed me to get into the hives this past weekend and see how they've 
been doing.  Sadly, one of the two hives did not make it.  I am not too 
surprised, as they were pretty weak going into the fall, and though I 
left them heavy stores on which to feed, I think they probably simply 
didn't have the numbers to resist the cold.  

So, it brings me to my question:  One dead hive, with 2 or 2 1/2 supers of
honey stored up: what do I do with the honey?  I stacked it on the other
hive (for whom I also left 2 1/2 supers of honey in the fall), so I now
have a six super high stack of wintering bees.  The question: is this a 
problem?  Will the space freak them out or allow too much heat loss?

Thanks for the advice...

Jordan L.K. Schwartz       !  University of Washington
[email-masked]      !  Department of Psychology
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jlks/jordan.html

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From: [email-masked] (Diller Ryan)
Date: 28 Jan 1995 17:22:29 GMT

Jordan Schwartz ([email-masked]) wrote:
:              Sadly, one of the two hives did not make it.  I am not too 
: surprised, as they were pretty weak going into the fall, and though I 
: left them heavy stores on which to feed, I think they probably simply 
: didn't have the numbers to resist the cold.  

:                                                I stacked it on the other
: hive (for whom I also left 2 1/2 supers of honey in the fall), so I now

Here's a scary thought: Perhaps the hive was killed by Varroa, and you just
comtaminated the second hive.  Some Apistan may be in order.

Do you have a Varroa problem up there?  It's a killer in central California.

Diller

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From: [email-masked] (bill fernihough)
Date: 28 Jan 1995 23:42:29 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]

> http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jlks/jordan.html
My suggestion is that you keep the extra honey indoors for the next few
weeks.  You might try feeding sugar syrup with antibiotics to the
surviving hive, to build them up and initiate brood rearing, then by about
May you can likely do a split with a new queen and be ready to go into the
season with two hives.

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From: [email-masked] (Michael Moroney)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 04:23:05 GMT

> problem?  Will the space freak them out or allow too much heat loss?

Why don't you do what you're supposed to do with the honey?  Harvest it and
eat/sell/give it away!  :-) :-)

Note that as spring arrives the cluster will tend to move "upstairs" and
the queen will start laying up there, so you'll have to deal with brood in
your honey supers.

-Mike

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From: [email-masked] (Jordan Schwartz)
Date: 30 Jan 1995 00:08:29 GMT

>Do you have a Varroa problem up there?  It's a killer in central California.

I spent a while going through my book trying to figure out what did them 
in before I settled in on simple cold.  I had apistan in there, so I 
don't think this did it, and there didn't seem to be any signs of 
foulbrood or the other common killers.  In any case, with the hives right 
next to each other, I couldn't imagine one having something that the 
other didn't...Thanks for the warning though: its a good point.

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: 30 Jan 1995 01:33:05 GMT

Varroa is found only on bees or in brood. If there were some mites in the
honey supers, or bees with mites on them, you could transfer the mites to
the other hive, but if there was only sealed honey, varroa transferring over
shouldn't be a problem.
 Sometimes bees just don't over - winter. :(
Adam
-- 
____________________________________________________________________________ 
Adam Finkelstein                     Price Hall 
Entomology                   VA Tech, Blacksburg, VA  24001-0325 
[email-masked] ______________________________________________________

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Kerr)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:18:11 +1200

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
(Michael Moroney) wrote:

> > so I now

Our winters aren't as cold as yours so this may not work for you, but to
cover both those problems I put a "hive mat" between the top of the brood
boxes and the honey. 
This "hive mat" is a sheet of 3/16 hardboard rebated into a wooden rim
about a half inch thick with a hole one inch diameter in the middle. Stops
the "chimney effect", keeps the bees warm in the bottom boxes, but the
field bees can move up to the stores easily at any time. In maybe one hive
in ten the cluster may decide to all move upstairs, but this can easily be
sorted out in the spring.

-- 
Peter Kerr                             bodger
School of Music                        chandler
University of Auckland                 neo-Luddite

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From: [email-masked] (Aaron Morris)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 15:52:43 EST

In article <[email-masked]>
[email-masked] (Jordan Schwartz) writes:
 
>
>Thanks all for the advice on this one.  I've decided to stack the supers
>high on the hive, put in a queen excluder so she doesn't start laying up
>with the honey....
>
 
BAD IDEA!  You don't want to add the queen excluder now, unless you are
absolutely sure the bees have enough stores below the excluder to make
it through the rest of the winter.  Otherwise the may move above the
excluder to get at the stores and the queen will be left below the
excluder and out of the cluster (guaranteed death sentence for your
queen).
 
The best advice given was to place an inner cover between the supers and
the winter cluster to reduce heat loss and minimize the chimney effect.
Then if need be ALL the bees will be able to move up, but most likely
will remain below the barrier between brood chambers and honey supers.
 
Aaron Morris - tired of thinking.

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From: [email-masked] (Jordan Schwartz)
Date: 31 Jan 1995 16:58:03 GMT

Thanks all for the advice on this one.  I've decided to stack the supers 
high on the hive, put in a queen excluder so she doesn't start laying up 
with the honey, and then split (or perhaps catch a wild swarm - always 
wanted to try that) this spring.

Thanks again for the feedback, all.

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From: [email-masked] (Michael Moroney)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 02:08:05 GMT

> wanted to try that) this spring.

You may want to consider the possibility you may lose the queen by doing this.
The cluster may move "upstairs" through the excluder and the queen, being
unable to pass through, may be left behind to freeze.  I do not know if
the bees will leave the queen behind or not.

-Mike

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From: [email-masked] (B.J.H. Beattie)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 10:34:00 GMT

> You might try feeding sugar syrup with antibiotics to the
> surviving hive, to build them up and initiate brood rearing, 

I've always understood that the use of antibiotics as prophylactics wasn't a 
Good Thing as there's a risk of producing resistant bacteria, so then it's no 
good when you REALLY need it.

Any other opinions on this?

Bridget Beattie.

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From: bill fernihough <[email-masked]>
Date: 2 Feb 1995 06:13:50 GMT

> Any other opinions on this?
Bridget, doesn't appear we're getting much attention, but can I suggest
that since bee's usually don't last more than a few weeks, there isn't 
time for resistance to occurr to the antibiotics.  The antibiotics themselves
are very weak, and only last six weeks in moisture, and only a few seconds
in sunshine, just for your info.  You can be sure that if you don't 
feed antibiotics regularly in infected areas, sooner or later, your
hives are going to be burnt.  You should discuss with you local bee
inspector for your area, who undoubtedly can assist.