Subject: swarm control

From: [email-masked] (Norman R. Paterson)
Date: 17 Mar 1995 14:07:44 GMT

What would happen if you organised your hive like this:

	roof
	super(s)
	excluder
	brood
	excluder
	super
	floor

?  The idea being that (1) incoming bees could dump their shopping in
the lowest super, without having to go through an excluder (that might
strip pollen from their legs) and (2) the queens would not be able to
get out to swarm.  (You'd have to remove the lower excluder after
swarming season to let drones out.)

Are virgin queens small enough to get through an excluder?

-Norman

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From: [email-masked] (Gerard Worrell)
Date: 19 Mar 1995 01:47:01 GMT

Norman R. Paterson ([email-masked]) wrote:
: What would happen if you organised your hive like this:

: 	roof
: 	super(s)
: 	excluder
: 	brood
: 	excluder
: 	super
: 	floor

: ?  The idea being that (1) incoming bees could dump their shopping in
: the lowest super, without having to go through an excluder (that might
: strip pollen from their legs) and (2) the queens would not be able to
: get out to swarm.  (You'd have to remove the lower excluder after
: swarming season to let drones out.)

: Are virgin queens small enough to get through an excluder?

: -Norman
Norm,
You can probably obtain the same results simply by adding another 
entrance to the upper supers without having to put the brood over that 
bottom super. You are just making yourself work harder, having to lift 
all that extra weight to get to that bottom super.
Yes, virgin queens can go thru excluders. I've seen it happen.

Jerry worrell

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From: [email-masked] (David Scribner)
Date: 26 Mar 1995 05:17:30 GMT

Norman,

  I don't think it would work to your advantage very well at all.  For 
one thing, in the spring you would have to constantly remove the bottom 
excluder to allow the emerging drones (which can't fit through the 
excluder) out.  If you don't they will die and clog the excluder, leading 
to stress in the worker bees as they try to work around the dead/dying 
bees.

  Also, bees usually store their pollen above the brood stores, not 
necessarily in the supers (like honey).  As such, that would defeat your 
idea of having them not go through an excluder as they would still have 
to go through the bottom excluder to get to the brood.  Also, nectar is 
not taken to the upper suppers by the bees returning from the field.  It 
is instead given over to the "house bees" upon entering the hive, which 
then take it to the supers or brood chamber themselves.  The field bees 
immediately return to the field to collect more nectar.

  You may wish to try it anyway, as I'm sure you'll learn a lot about the 
nature of bees and how they store goods in the hive, but expect a little 
frustration.

  Good luck!
    --Dave