Subject: Re: Query about Skeps (REMAIL PLEASE!)

From: [email-masked] (Mike Reddy)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 13:20:24 GMT

Sorry to bother you again. I managed to see about three or four headers for
messages in response to my queries about skeps, etc, before the mail server
died and lost them all. Can people who took time to reply by email, please
do me the favour of resending your letters. Thanks again.

Yours Mike Reddy
--
P.S. I would have had a witty signature, but the Government put VAT on it!

Email: [email-masked] OR [email-masked]
Snail Mail: Mike Reddy, J228, Dept. of Computer Studies, University of
Glamorgan, Pontypridd, Mid Glamorgan. CF37 1DL Wales, UK
Tel: +44 (0)443 482 240 Fax: +44 (0)443 482 715

---

From: [email-masked] (Norman R. Paterson)
Date: 16 Dec 1994 13:05:08 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Mike Reddy <[email-masked]> wrote:
...

>Skep-making: Does anyone around South Wales have any Thatcher's Straw
>(longer stalks than in normal straw bales) and wild bramble that they would
>not mind loosing (Just think, someone else to help in the garden tidy-up
>this Winter!)?

You should be able to buy a skep from you local beekeeper supplies.  Many
keepers use them for catching swarms.  (I just use a cardboard box.)  No
need to make one - but good luck if you do!

...

>Starting up a skep-based Hive: Naturally I can split off a new queen and
>place her into the skep (an artificial swarm). However, I'd like to be able
>to show a "waxed up" skep to the visitors (which would require forst
>populating the skep, then relocating the bees to another one) without
>having to kill the occupants (which was the old method before our modern
>hives). They used to use Sulphur fires to poison the insects (and the
>honey?), but I don't want to do that to the bees I am going to use,
>naturally!

I don't think it will be that easy to persuade the bees to leave their
nest.  Remember, it is full of honey, wax and brood, so it is a huge
investment for them to give up.  Even if you do manage to drive the bees
out, the abandonned skep will (a) contain brood that will die and rot, and
(b) be very attractive to any passing bee looking for somewhere to rob or
swarm.

How about keeping skep active, but placing it on top of a glass plate, and
fitting a mirror underneath so people can look in?  Or instead of a mirror,
raise it up above head height?  (This would also keep the bees' flight path
out of the way.)  You'd have to arrange for moving the skep to its new site,
and that would require care; but it would be a lot more interesting than an
ordinary observation hive.  I've never seen such a thing, myself.  (Now
you've got me thinking about our next open day...)

-Norman

---

From: [email-masked] (Gordon Scott)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 21:48:59 +0000

> >hives).

Norman is right about rotting bees/brood if you manage to do  this,  and
rotting  bees  smell  _horrible_.  You could use the mirror technique he
suggests, which is a great idea -- I think if I did  that,  I  would  be
tempted  to to use artificial swarm principles to control the inevitable
behaviour, i.e., I would deliberately move  away  the  main  colony  and
replace  it  with  a new one raised from scratch to minimise the risk of
them swarming.  (Mind you, catching swarms is interesting for the public
too!)

The alternative that I would consider is to have photographs of the skep
and  keep  the bees in an observation hive where both you and the public
can see them easily.

Regards,
-- 
Gordon Scott	[email-masked]		100332,3310 on CompuServe
Newsletter	[email-masked]	ditto
		Beekeeper, Kendo Sandan, sometime sailor.
		Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5HP, UK
Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a banana.

---

From: [email-masked] (Mike Reddy)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 15:50:47 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Gordon
Scott) wrote:

> them swarming.

I'll have a think about the mirror, but I am not sure if we want loads of
school kids that close to a skep. This is a historical re-enactment and the
bees, equipment and beekeeper must be as authentic as possible.

> and  keep  the bees in an observation hive where both you and the public

Photographs are not feasible in the historical setting - when Kentwell does
what it is famous for (complete immersion) none of the participants display
any twentieth century knowledge, language or appearance! We are trying to
cast a spell, and modern visual aids would not be allowed. In fact, some
rotting brood - much as the idea disgusts me - would probably be in keeping
with the traditional farming methods were sulpher fires were used to kill
the bees!

I'm still looking for sources of bramble and thatcher's straw though, as I
would like to make my own authentic skep.

Yours Mike Reddy

---

From: [email-masked] (Mike Reddy)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 12:25:20 GMT

Apologies to non-UK people, as I think that UK residents are more likely to
help (I've posted world wide as there may be people interested however!).

I need info on the following thing because I am taking the role as a Tudor
bee keeper (circa 1545 South East England) for a medieaval re-enactment:

Tudor bee-keeping texts: There is one in the British Library - Charles
Butler's "The Female Monarchy" or "The Government of Bees" (circa 1600s) -
which may have been reprinted by a company called 'Bee books old and new'.
Does anyone know of this book?

As an additional (general) question, does anyone in the South West have any
second hand hives for sale, as I am starting up a hive next spring in
Cardiff?
I'm on a limited budget - aren't we all - so I wanted to pick up a good
deal. I've tried to get in touch with the Cardiff Bee-keepers Association,
but the Secretary never replied after an initial acknowledgement that she
would "send me something soon."

Yours Mike Reddy

---

From: Jennifer Finley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 17:20:16 EST

I struck me that a comparatively easy way to remove the bees from a skep
while leaving the comb intact would be to use any of the fumigants which
drive the bees out of the supers during honey harvest -- BeeGo (butyric
anhydride), oil of almond (benzaldehyde), etc. Toss a soaked cloth or
fume board under the skep on a warm day and watch the bees run out the
entrance.  Although they smell nasty, the chemicals do not poison the
honey.

However, as Norman pointed out in a previous posting, you are still left
with the problem of dying and decaying brood once you remove the bees...

A skepmaker from here in Pennsylvania accomodates large colonies in his
skeps by "bottom supering" with standard equipment.  For example, as the
bees build up in the spring, he adds a deep hive body to the bottom of
the skep.  The queen usually moves the broodrearing down into the deep
and the skep becomes honey storage.  In the winter, the bees move upward
onto the honey and by spring end up in the skep again, and so on.  My
point is that you could possibly circumvent the decaying brood problem
by placing the skep on top of a very strong (but compact) colony during
a good honey flow and having the bees fill it with honey comb.  If the
flow was good enough, and the bees were desperate enough for honey
space...  They would probably build comb from the "floor" upward (I've
seen this in empty hive boxes ie feeder pail covers).  But with bees
it's hard to tell, once in a great while, they actually do what you want
them to do, but only because THEY want to...

Best of luck!!!

Jennifer Finley

Graduate Student, Entomology, Penn State University