Subject: Honey solids???

From: [email-masked] (Robert Van Leeuwen)
Date: 6 Feb 1995 03:23:41 GMT

OK OK I know. this is ag.beekeeping, not ag.honey, but I have an odd 
question anyway...

My wife bought some a honey-whole wheat bread mix (U just add water)
I looked at the ingredients and saw that it had more rice and soy flour
than wheat flour and the only ingredient that had ANYTHING to do with
honey was the very last one which said: honey solids.

Now I've been in beekeeping for 20 years, and have never heard of this.
Anybody have a clue as to what honey solids would be???

                   Robert VL

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From: [email-masked] (Andy Nachbaur)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:02:00 GMT

[email-masked] (john E. Taylor Iii)refer#: None
 wrote:
>Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:31:54 -0500
>Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping
>
>>  [email-masked] (robert Van Leeuwen)refer#: None  wrote:
>>    Normally by law the ingredients are listed in descending order as
>> to amounts of each. Few labels will list the actual amounts, but the
>> new nutritional labels do help if your concern is in empty calories or
>> fiber and fats. If a ingredient is not listed it can be assumed it does
>> not contain that ingredient or is in violation of the US Federal Food
>> Labeling Laws.
>>
>  John Said:
>If they're listing "honey solids" as an ingredient, chances are the FDA ha
>defined what it believes "honey solids" to be, and has permitted the use o
>the term.  Probably the place to start is the FDA.  If they've mis-defined
>something, we need to take the matter up with them.  If _they_ don't know
>what "honey solids" are, then they probably should be the ones to contact
>the manufacturer of the product listing them.
>
 |----end quotes---------------------------------|

   Hello John,

     You are right, for some reason my reader missed the HONEY SOLIDS,
which is assumed to be some form of dried honey. You would know more
about the chemical nature of this then the average consumer.

     So what we have here is a product that DOES contain honey in one
form or another and has every right as far as I know to include the
words "Honey" in the product label. One would not expect the honey
contained to be in greater amounts then say the grain, at the same time
if it is less then the salt you can be sure little is used in most
recipes. Without seeing the actual label it is hard to say for sure how
much honey plays a part in the finished product. If it was at the near
top of the list it could be considered as substantial, being at the
bottom its inclusion may have been for promotion of the product itself.
Any amount of honey in a product like bread is significant as a lot of
bread is baked everyday, not necessarily using this particular product.

    If costs was equal there are several reasons one could use honey
in baking other then the promotion of the finished product. Bread
with honey cooks a little faster, at lower temperatures. So the final
product in an industrial bakery costs less because energy is a real
factor in breads production. The finished baked product will be more
attractive in appearance, retain it freshness longer, and hopefully find
a willing market for honey baked breads. The industrial use of honey has
much increased over the years so one could assume they do find the use
of honey rewarding, hopefully it will continue and grow stronger.

    As for real rip offs, products labeled "Honey This or That", there
has been a few. The major players respond to public criticism, not
always as fast as one would want, but they do. None of them want the
FDA or any other government agency poking around any more then they
already do, most honey packers and beekeepers are the same way. Sad as
it may be the old lie "I am from the government and I am here to help
you!" is many times true.

    I did take on one national company single handed when I was young
and dumb. Letters changed hands, heated letters changed hands. Then
reason won out, to a degree. The company agreed to change the wording on
the label when the old labels were used up, "artificial honey", which was
NO honey at all. They stalled for more then a year claiming their supply
of containers with the labels was humongous. I had no way to check this
out as when I was in the factory I was able to check for the honey, and
ask the employees where it was, but the product cans were not there. I
knew from experience that the cans were manufactured as needed and more
then likely the costs of redoing the label was the only thing that was
holding up the label change. More angry letters, and at last they gave
in and stopped making the product...not a sweet victory for the use
honey but a victory for its sweet name. This company was using about 30
drums of honey per month in another product and continued to do so.

    What started all this was as an invited VIP guest to this plant
I asked one simple question, "where is the Honey", and was given the run
around for most of a day by responsible people who should have known
better. I was finally shown a five pound can of honey and was supposed
to believe this was what was used in tens of thousands of cases of
packed product.

    Thanks for your post hope I did not mislead Robert to far astray.

                        ttul Andy-

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From: [email-masked] (Roger Post)
Date: 15 Feb 1995 02:26:56 GMT

>not a sweet victory for the use

Andy:

I think we all owe you a thank you. Honey should mean HONEY!