Subject: extracting -- advice needed

From: jedediah <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 10:05:45 -0500

I am a new hobbyist beekeeper with one hive.  I started fairly late in the
season, but the little ladies have nevertheless produced one super _full_ of
dark wildflower honey.  Here's my problem:  I am not equipped for processing
the honey, though I need to harvest it right away in order to get fall
preventive medications into the hive.  (I live in Maine; it's getting a lot
cooler.)  I have a friend with an extractor that I should be able to use.  Can
anyone give me _SIMPLE_ instructions regarding how to proceed with the
extraction and bottling process?  Remember, I have no experience with this, but
I am a quick learner.  What are the basic steps th
                                                  at I cannot skip over?  Next
year I'll be better prepared.  Thanks for any help anyone can give me...
 
Kerry Drach <[email-masked]>
Portland, Maine

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From: [email-masked] (Michael v.E. Rulison)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 11:08:17

In article <[email-masked]> jedediah <[email-masked]> writes:
>From: jedediah <[email-masked]>
>Subject: extracting -- advice needed
>Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 10:05:45 -0500

>  Can

IMHO: 
1. get extractor, capping knife, receiving bucket clean and in place. (I cover 
floor with newpaper as an aid to minimizing cleanup.)

2. remove super from hive.
3. have second empty super available, use bee brush to remove as many bees as 
possible from each frame and put de-bee'd frames in empty super, covering with 
cloth while working on next frame. Do this close to hive so that brushed bees 
can get back to hive.

4. move super to extracting venue. Left over bees will mostly fly to windows 
(light) and have not been much of a problem for me. uncap both size of one 
frame, place in extractor, repeat until extractor full (2, 3, 4 frames 
depending on model). Balance frames as much as possible: light opposite light, 
heavy opposite heavy).

5. spin extractor, slower at start, faster after 2-4 minutes as frame become 
lighter. Also slower speeds on first side, faster when frames are reversed to 
do second side.

6. repeat until all frames extracted, or honey needs to be removed from 
extractor to allow continuation.

7. remove honey from extractor: Nylon mesh is one method of getting pretty 
clean honey on one pass. I use new panty hose held on bucket with clothespins 
and with legs brought snugly to the outside and clipped so that they cannot be 
pulled back in by weight of honey.

8. cover honey buckey reasonably tightly ASAP to minimize water pickup by 
honey. weigh bucket before and after filling to get net product.

9. decant honey into final containers.

10. clean all equipment with warm water. use soap only if necessary and then 
rinse thoroughly. I do not submerse capping knife, but tend to wipe clean 
while warm with paper or clean rag.

---- All this from an amateur. Other will have difference opinions and 
knowledge.

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From: [email-masked] (Highlander)
Date: 25 Sep 1994 16:59:59 GMT

> ---- All this from an amateur. Other will have difference opinions and 

it works for me!
FROM another amateur...don't forget to put the emptied frames near the
hives for the bees to lick clean before storing them....(and don't throw
those those cappings away!-use 'em.;-)
take heart, I'm further north than you and extracted late last year and am
extracting now too!

My heart's in the highlands, my heart is not here. My heart's in the
highlands, chasing the deer. (R. Burns)

---

From: James R. Griggs <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 Sep 1994 22:00:13 GMT

I live in Vienna, Austria, but was raised in Iowa by the son of a 
beekeeper with 1000-1200 hives.  I helped in the business until I 
graduated from University, so I have quite a bit of experience in 
the honey business.

Here are a couple of thoughts I had while reading your message:

1.) Large honey producers use other methods to remove the bees 
>from  the combs.  Chemical agents (my dad used carbonic acid, 
there are also commercial preparations) which would drive the 
bees down in the hive.  A cover was placed on the top super with 
a pad saturated with the agent.  The bees were driven down by the 
vapors.  Also, there are big blowers which are used to blow the 
bees out from between the frames.  We had a gasoline powered 
machine that made a heck of a wind.  It whisks the bees out 
without hurting them (much).
2.) Your use of newspapers may make for an easy cleanup, but you 
may be loosing a little honey in the process.  Consider using 
plastic, and then placing the sheets outside for the bees to lick 
off.
3.) We heated the honey slightly before straining it through 100 
mesh silk and bottling or bareling it.  The temperature was kept 
to about 160F or below to keep the honey from darkening.  Heating 
the honey before sealing helped keep it from granulating so 
quickly.

-- 
James R. Griggs
[email-masked]
Vienna, Austria

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Fox)
Date: 30 Sep 1994 09:57:42 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Highlander) says:

>highlands, chasing the deer. (R. Burns)

I don't put the supers back on the hive. It's a lot more work and the remnants of the
honey deter wax moth from attacking your combs. Wax moth can devastate
yor stored comb over winter.

---

From: James R. Griggs <[email-masked]>
Date: 30 Sep 1994 21:28:20 GMT

Empty supers stored over the winter can be effectively protected 
against moth damage by keeping them relatively well sealed 
(i.e,., stacked tightly), and placing a small quantity of 
paradichlorabenzine (spelling questionable) or common "moth 
balls" on a piece of mesh on the top covered with a tight cover. 
 The fumes of the moth balls are heavier than air and sind 
through the stack of supers.  Moths won't eat your combs like 
they won't eat your wife's (grandmother's?) fur coats!

---

From: [email-masked] (Mike Griggs)
Date: 1 Oct 1994 16:35:46 GMT

> they won't eat your wife's (grandmother's?) fur coats!
When you say supers do you mean hive bodies or honey supers.  The reason I bring this up is that in recent years it has been found that PDB can accumulate in the wax and it is not easy to tell if it is leaching into the honey in appreciable amounts. It is known that it (tends to be lipophillic) is concentrated in the wax more so than in the honey.
I use moth balls for storing my excess hive bodies and place my honey supers in an old chest freezer that I know is physically sealed.  The hive bodies are much more attractive to the Wax Moth since they really feed on the remains of the bee molt skins and less on the wax.

James do you think we may be related? 
-- 
Mike Griggs Entomologist/Apiculturist/Arborist

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From: James R. Griggs <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Oct 1994 18:15:15 GMT

Mike,

Definitely hive bodies.  I used the term super to mean the same. 
 I guess I never realized that the term "super" was reserved for 
a hive body which was full of honey.

My honey experience dates back about 20 years, so the use of 
paradichlorabenzine (?) or moth balls is a bit dated.  I do, 
however, remember also using a commercial product call 
"KillMoth".  PDB would keep moths out if they weren't already in 
the combs.  KillMoth would actually kill them if they were 
already in.

Re. being related ... who knows?  I was raised in Iowa.  My 
father's family grew up in eastern Iowa around the town of 
Washington.  His family originally came from Kentucky, and beyond 
that, we don't have much information.  Any geneological 
information you may have would be greatly appreciated.  E-mail me 
please.

---

From: [email-masked] (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 08:18:05 GMT

MOstly what I do.  I have added a few points.

>2. remove super from hive.

Open super on hive, remove frames, shake bees from them, replace with new 
frames (optional, depending on flow conditions)

>cloth while working on next frame. Do this close to hive so that brushed bees 

Brush/shake over the hive...cuts losses by a bit.  Also, as well as, or 
instead of a cloth, use a board fitted with porter escapes.

>lighter. Also slower speeds on first side, faster when frames are reversed to 

For REALLY heavy frames, extract half of the first side, flip, do half the 
second side, then redo each side, otherwise ther eis a greater risk of the 
comd colapsing.

>extractor to allow continuation.

Or have outlet of extractor emptying straight into a barrel.

>while warm with paper or clean rag.

Or keep knife hot for a minute or two after finishing, and most wax and 
honey will flow straight off.

>---- All this from an amateur. Other will have difference opinions and 

Uh ...yeah...what he said.

I hope my comments help rather than hinder.
Adrian.

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:20:17 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Mike

> When you say supers do you mean hive bodies or honey supers.  The reason I
> bring this up is that in recent years it has been found that PDB can
> accumulate in the wax and it is not easy to tell if it is leaching into the
> honey in appreciable amounts. It is known that it (tends to be lipophillic) is
> concentrated in the wax more so than in the honey.

paradichlorobenzene---close enough, Jim.

Mike--I have been been concerned about using PDB to protect extracted comb
for that very reason (absorption into the wax).  But I've also seen the
depredation of wax moths on extracted frames from my supers...they don't
leave _anything_ behind!  Your freezer storage sounds interesting, but I
assume you're using it as a freezer, rather than just an airtight,
ambient-temperature storage chest.  Have you looked at the cost of
electricity for storing  frames this way?

Do the wax moths do less damage if you return the extracted frames to the
supers and leave them on the hives over the winter?

--
John Taylor    (W3ZID)     |  "The opinions expressed are those of the
[email-masked] |   writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company."

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From: [email-masked] (Moore Chad)
Date: 5 Oct 1994 15:40:34 GMT

That is all fine and good, and you have good suggestions for storing 
empty supers and honey supers.  However, what would you suggest if one 
has a little two many supers to mess with?  In the winter, we have around 
eight thousand empty supers in our shop.  In most years, they do not even 
go out, but in the good years we need every one and sometimes have to 
borrow some.  How would you suggest we keep the wax moth's out of these?
	There is a solution.  About every two to three weeks, we burn a 
Sufuric solution, that kills all wax moths, and in fact every insect.  It 
is totally non-harmless to humans, after it dissipates, but the smell is 
nasty.  Do you know of any other way?

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From: [email-masked] (Jordan Schwartz)
Date: 5 Oct 1994 17:24:27 GMT

>is totally non-harmless to humans, after it dissipates, but the smell is 
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tell me this is a typo, please...

Jordan L.K. Schwartz       !  University of Washington
[email-masked]      !  Department of Psychology
http://alfred1.u.washington.edu:8080/~jlks/jordan.html

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From: James R. Griggs <[email-masked]>
Date: 8 Oct 1994 22:42:20 GMT

>That is all fine and good, and you have good suggestions for
>storing empty supers and honey supers.  However, what would you 
>suggest if one has a little two many supers to mess with?  

Chad,

My dad had about 8,000 to 10,000 hive bodies to store through the 
winters.  He owned a large metal quansit building, stacked the 
hive bodies in very tall stacks.  We stacked the bodies at the 
end of each day during extracting season unless they were being 
taken back to the bee yards to be put back on.  I remember it as 
I remember it as a pain in the ... back ..., one that I did not 
enjoy, but it was necessary to go through this to protect the 
combs.

As I indicated in an earlier message, he used PDB 
(paradichlorabenzine) to keep the moths out.  This generally 
worked fine.  If you keep them stored for more than a season, you 
would probably have to re-treat them again, maybe a couple of 
times per year.

-- 
James R. Griggs
[email-masked]  (Home)
[email-masked]         (Work)
Vienna, Austria

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 01:41:56 GMT

I store empty honey supers on end, in a screened porch, outdoors. The
light and open air keep all wax moth activity to a minimum.
 A big commercial guy near here has an old truck trailer. He burns agricultural
sulfur in an old honey drum, about 10 lbs at a time per load of supers. 
 I wonder what some of those really big commercial beekeepers out west do?
Hummm? :)
Adam
-- 
============================================================================
 Adam Finkelstein   [email-masked]     [email-masked]     
===============================================   |Bees To Please|   =======

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From: [email-masked] (Allen Dick 546-2588)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 05:25:22 GMT

Wax moth is not a problem usually in the country where winters have 
periods well below freezing and the supers are stored in unheated 
buildings over winter.

If problems occur, it is usually in brood chambers and where the combs 
have held some warmth - say due to sun on a wall, and there has been some 
insulating effect -say due to many supers stacked tightly together.

:  I wonder what some of those really big commercial beekeepers out west do?
-- 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                 ARS  VE6CFK
Rural Route One, Swalwell,  Alberta  Canada  T0M 1Y0
Phone/Fax: 403 546 2588      Email: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Moore Chad)
Date: 17 Oct 1994 16:01:44 GMT

> :  I wonder what some of those really big commercial beekeepers out west do?

We are a fairly good sized commercial beekeeper out west, and we just 
burn a sulfer compound in the shop where we keep the hives.  We do this 
roughly about every two weeks, it kills the wax moths and keeps our hives 
clean.