Subject: Re: Will the honey move up?

From: [email-masked] (C. Paul Ferroni)
Date: 1 Aug 1994 22:48:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] writes:

[...munch...]

> 	Also how do I put the hive back together without crushing a million 
> bees? Everytime I either brush or smoke them off the sides by the time I turn 
> around and pick up the box to put back on they've covered the sides again. I 
> *can't* stand there forever until they decide to move, my back can't take it 
> especially when they're full.
> 
> -- 
> Dave D. Cawley

Dave,

  I'll take a stab at your last question...

  I typically use the hive outer cover as a stand for the supers.  Turn
it upside down, and set the super(s) on it in such a way that it sits on
four points, rather than sliping into the cover.  This way, there is a 
significant gap below the super as it's sitting on the cover.  (It also
makes it easy to pick up later).

  Be sure to have scraped off any comb that's hanging below the frames.  

  Then, apply liberal smoke to the top of what's left of the hive (where
the seperated super will go), and to the underside of the super sitting
on the cover.  This is why you leave the space below it -- so the smoke
will go underneath easily.  (Note: I always leave the inner cover on top
of the seperated super as well, to reduce the number of curious onlookers
while working.)  

  Typically, most of the bees will be away from the points of contact by
this time, and you have a short window of time to move the super on top
of the hive.  If your hive is very full (of bees), angry (open too long
perhaps?), etc, you may still have MANY bees sitting where they may get
hurt.

  The method of placing the super on the hive will also help at this point.
Don't just set it in its final location.  Gently set it down about a side-
board width from it's final resting point.  Do this by setting one edge down
first (slowly), then the other (slowly).  Then slowly slide the whole thing
into position.

  I emphasize the slowness of the movement(s) because the bees will naturally
move out of the way as they are getting compressed between two objects.
You'll end up crushing a few bees, but I'm usually able to put the most active,
full hives together without rousing them too much, or effecting a massacre.

  I typically smoke any crushed bees, to try to mask the scent, and avoid
any "misundertandings" with the survivors :).

  Hope this helps.

-cpf

---

From: [email-masked] (Rick Hough)
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 1994 13:57:42 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

>         Well...in my two brood boxes I found almost 5 frames total of capped
> honey, 3.5 in the top and 1.5 in the bottom. This amazed me cos I figured I
> could get away with 2 brood boxes and a medium super for the year since we've
> had droughts the last 3-5 years...how was *I* supposed to know that the
> rainfall would be a doozy this year?!? So now my question is (other than
where 
> the heck am i going to get more supers) is will they move the honey up
into the
> super to free up the brood boxes now that they have the room? They had
one full
> sheet of of foundation filled out and were working on the others. I figure I
> have a full super with what is capped in the bottom boxes.

I don't think the bees will "move the honey" into the super, but what they will
do is consume the honey that is stored near the broodnest, and new nectar
that is coming in will probably be stored up in the super. At a casual glance,
this looks like they "moved the honey", but that isn't what really happened.
Of course, that's just my opinion - I haven't watched my hive closely enough
to be able to "prove" this hypothesis.

>         I found the queen in the top box which is practically filled with
> brood and 3.5 frames of honey, the bottom box had some open space, will she
> move back down or is it time to switch boxes on them? Since I don't have an
> excluder should I pray that she doesn't move up into the super?

Given how crowded your colonies sound, I would guess that it is likely that
the queen would move up into the super & start laying - all those open cells
would be just too appealing. Prayer doesn't seem to change that! Some folks
say that if there is a band of honey across the top of the hive, the queen
won't cross it & lay in the super. To have an effective band, *EVERY* frame
needs to be solid honey on the top couple of inches - it is easy to get the
honey barrier on the sides, but much tougher (you see it less often) directly
over the brood nest. The honey barrier didn't work for me this summer, but it
seems to work much of the time (don't know how prayer impacts this one!)
 
> especially when they're full.

The trick I was taught was 1) lots of smoke, and 2) set the upper box onto the
lower box at a slight angle (rotation), and then spin it into position. The
advantage is that the "crush zone" is much smaller when you initially set the
box down. Then, if you can spin the box slowly enough, most of the bees will
get out  of the way, or get pushed out of the way. I still squish some, but
not as many as just plopping the box straight down. The disadvantage is that
it can be tough with burr comb & propolis to spin a deep that has lots of
honey in it!

Good Luck.

Rick Hough
[email-masked]

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