Subject: Re: Pressure treated lumber

From: [email-masked] (Beth Nixon)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 13:16:26 AST

On Tue, 14 Mar 1995 02:16:35 GMT,  [email-masked] writes:
>
>A friend of mine who is also a bee keeper is using pressuse treated 
>lumber for his bottom boards this year. I don't think that it is a good 
>idea seeing as the whole idea of pressure treated is to keep bugs out of 
>it. Does anyone else have an opinion or facts about this. 
>                                          Gary Welzenbach
Hi Gary!
I will be very interested in what you find out!!  We've thought about pressure
treated lumber for bottom boards, as ours have all rotten.  This year we have
compromised though and have cedar bottom boards, has anyone else tried them?
I know a book I have says that I shouldn't use cedar as although it will not
cause the bees to vacate that it will frustrate them. If anyone  has an
opinion on cedar bottom boards or other wood equipment I'd be interested to
hear any opinions or facts about this!!

Beth Nixon
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Adam Finkelstein)
Date: 14 Mar 1995 18:04:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,

>hear any opinions or facts about this!!

I have some cedar bottom boards that are awesome!
Cypress is used as material too.

Adam

-- 
______________________________________
Adam Finkelstein 
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (David J Trickett)
Date: 14 Mar 1995 20:32:01 GMT

Gary Welzenbach ([email-masked]) wrote:
: A friend of mine who is also a bee keeper is using pressuse treated 
: lumber for his bottom boards this year. I don't think that it is a good 
: idea seeing as the whole idea of pressure treated is to keep bugs out of 
: it. Does anyone else have an opinion or facts about this. 
:                                           Gary Welzenbach

I've used 3/4 exterior grade plywood for two seasons now without 
perceivable ill-effect.  My understanding is that they propolize 
everything anyway...

Dave

P.S.  Keeping the hive off the ground (use bricks or blocks or something) 
will help to minimize rot and insect damage.

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From: Charles Tuckey <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 Mar 1995 16:16:14 GMT

When I was beekeeping we built hundreds of hives. We surface 
treated every bottom board with a wood perservative (I forget
the name of it now). We didn't have any bee loss problems
arising from this.

charlie

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From: [email-masked] (Jean-Pierre Chapleau)
Date: 16 Mar 1995 10:24:22 GMT

I used canadian cedar (thuya occidentalis) for bottom boards for many 
years.  Most of my bottom boards are painted but a good number (40 out of 
550) are not.  The bees do not seem to be bothered.  I was also unsure of 
the result when I built them.  Still I wonder if I should use cedar for 
other hive parts.  I would like to use cedar for small mating 
nucs but I am afraid to do so.  I was thinking of soaking them in hot 
paraffin (NZ technique) to reduce the odor coming out of the wood.  I 
am curious to see other beekeepers's opinions.

Jean-Pierre Chapleau
eleveur d'abeilles reines
Quebec, Canada
[email-masked]
-- 
�WPC

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From: Kevin Ormerod <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 1995 18:15:49 GMT

Dr. Keith Delaplane, a well known beekeeper from the University
of Georgia, recommends treating the hive bodies, bottom boards,
and hive stands with copper napthanate to prevent rot.  Most of
the damage to woodenware is probably the result of moisture, and
mildew -- not bug infestation (like termites, ants,  or wax moths).

Kevin Ormerod

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From: [email-masked] (Gary Welzenbach)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 02:16:35 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Candour)
Date: 19 Mar 1995 03:14:42 GMT

> the name of it now). We didn't have any bee loss problems

I just coat the wooden parts of my hives with Metalex, (I think I spelt
that right).  After leaving the parts to dry I paint the outer surfaces
and I haven't had any problems.

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From: [email-masked] (Chris Conroy)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:23:23 GMT

Hi all,

My wife and I checked out our only hive this morning. Nice weather here
in NH. There is a surprising amount of honey left over (we're first
year beekeepers). The size of the hive seems pretty healthy, and we did
see some new brood.

On one or two frames, we saw some whitish crystal-like things in some
of the comb. There is no brood, and I don't believe there is any capped
honey on any of these frames. Any ideas what it might be? I took a
picture of it, if there aren't any ideas I could get it scanned make it
available here for diagnosis.

Chris Conroy
[email-masked]

Mecca-lecca-hi-lecca-hiney-ho!

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From: [email-masked] (Thomas Rich Schwerdt)
Date: 19 Mar 1995 17:07:50 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>,
>it. Does anyone else have an opinion or facts about this. 

There has been a continuing thread on Rec.gardens about this very topic.
Apparently, pressure treating lumber involves forcing large quantities
of arsenic (VERY toxic to just about everyting, including people)
into the wood by using high pressure -- hence the "friendly" name of
"pressure treated." I personally would not want to eat anything that was 
located near pressure treated lumber. Use cedar.

-Tom the Melaniephile

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From: [email-masked] (Steve Burt)
Date: 21 Mar 1995 03:44:21 GMT

Dear Chris,

Sounds from what you describe as though you have some granulated honey 
remaining in the comb, in places where the bees have already uncapped the 
cells and eaten the liquid goods.  This would not be surprising, given 
that the honey had all winter to crystallize, and temperatures on the low 
side, such as in the 50s Farenheit, really favor the honey turning to 
solid sugar.

If this is what is going on, you have nothing to fear, as the bees can 
liquify this sugared honey if necessary, or may well clean out the cells.

I'm curous to see what the beekeeping fraternity comes up with as far as 
alternative answers to your question.  

Sure is nice to have an early spring here in southeast Michigan.  The 
bees have already gone to town on silver maples, storing some honey and 
lots of pollen.  The Apistan really whacked my Varroa, which was 
threatening to kill all my bees!

Best wishes, 

STEVE BURT  [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Taylor III)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:11:42 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Thomas Rich

> located near pressure treated lumber. Use cedar.

Last time I checked on wood-treatment formulations, they were either
organics (chlorinated phenolics, that sort of thing) or tin-based, and not
arsenic-based compositions.  This could vary with the particular vendor of
treated wood, but I suspect getting approval to sell something treated with
arsenic might be difficult today, making non-arsenical compositions a lot
more attractive economically to the manufacturer.

Of course, I'm not all that keen on chlorinated phenolics or tin compounds
in my honey, either!

--
John Taylor    (W3ZID)      |  "The opinions expressed are those of the
e-mail: [email-masked] |   writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company."

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Kerr)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:38:59 +1200

> > located near pressure treated lumber. Use cedar.

North American practice may be different, but in this part of the world we
have two main forms of pressure treatment: one uses a mix of
copper-chrome-arsenic salts for external timbers and keeps out rot and
bugs (including bees); the other uses boron salts and is for indoor use,
less deadly but it too is not recommended for beehive parts.
Penta-chlor-phenol has been banned here since the early 1980s.

Use cedar by all means if you can get it and afford it. Monterey cypress 
(C. macrocapora) is a substitute here.

But most people go for a cheap pine and soak the dry timber for at least a
couple of hours in a bath of proprietary copper naphthenate - resin mix
which soaks into the end grain about half an inch, and about 1/8 inch on
the sides. This skin of copper naphthenate is bound by the resins so the
bees don't get at it, but it prevents rot and bugs getting inside the
boards. It is possible to soak damp infected timber and end up with a
shell board with the inside all rotted out :-(

-- 
Peter Kerr                             bodger
School of Music                        chandler
University of Auckland                 neo-Luddite