Subject: double colony -- advice wanted

From: [email-masked] (John E. Fox)
Date: 19 Sep 1994 12:36:10 GMT

Some time ago someone described a system of beekeeping where
there are two queens per hive. Is there any chance of re-posting the info.

Thanks in advance

John Fox

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From: [email-masked] (Aaron Morris)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 08:37:20 EDT

>there are two queens per hive. Is there any chance of re-posting the info.
I'm the guy, here's the info with much deleted from the discussion
that took place back in June '94:
>>...
>>Now while all this was going on, I captured a mid sized swarm of bees
>>that I put into a shallow super brood chamber with two medium
>>(Illinois) supers on top.  Both this captured swarm and the shook
>>swarm are progressing, but not as quickly as the honeyflow.  I am
>>considering uniting the captured swarm with the shook swarm and
>>operating it as a two queen hive.  I would do this by placing a queen
>>excluder and a sheet of newspaper between both shallow brood chambers
>>and place the round section supers above both.
>>
>>Anyone care to comment on what I'm considering?  Does this sound like an
>>idea with merit or does this sound like total folly?  Anyone have any
>>experience running a two queen colony?  If I go for this, I'll do it
>>this Saturday, so send those comments quickly!
 
To which Rick Hough, a beekeeper from Hamilton, MA, USA (NE of Boston)
([email-masked]) replied:
 
>Haven't done a 2-Q colony myself, but a keeper in my club does it all
>the time, and has instructed the group on his method. I'll summarize
>for you. He layers his equipment as follows:
>---inner/outer covers-----
>Honey supers (lots - they fill them fast with this arrangement!!)
>----optional Q-excluder - to keep brood out of supers-----
>Deep hive body with Q #1, brood, etc.
>-----Required Q-excluder------
>Deep hive body - no Queen!! Just honey storage, and space for bees
>-----Required Q-excluder------
>Deep hive body with Q #2, brood, etc.
>------bottom board, etc. --------
>
>Things to think about: 2 Q-excluders needed, with some separation,
>as the queens can fight through a single excluder - same reason
>that "double screens" are used instead of single.
>
>Also, providing an upper entrance for the bees is beneficial -
>lots less work for the bees to get the nectar to the supers
>that way.
>
>Combining with newspaper is appropriate - you want to
>give the scents of the two hives a chance to combine
>before they have full access to one another.
>
>This combination is often done starting with two full-strength
>colonies, and crowding them into the resulting three deeps
>plus supers. Result is LOTS of bees, and excellent honey
>storage into the supers. Need to keep on top of the supers
>(so to speak) as they get filled very rapidly - you may need
>to pull some off, and add more as the season progresses.
>
>I'm not sure how he over-winters his colonies.
>
>The story he tells about why he keeps his bees this way
>is that his wife said he could have a maximum of seven hives.
>What she didn't say was how tall they could be!!! So, now
>he has seven (tall) stacks of boxes, 14 Queens, lots of honey, and
>a happy wife! Sounds good to me!
>....
 
More discussion took place:
 
>...
>   The source I used for the two queen management was "The Hive and
>the Honeybee" (Dadant Publications, 1993 edition, don't know the
>pages).  The procedures call for splitting a strong hive, gradually
>introducing the second queen and ease the splits back together...
>
>         The reference states that this may or may not be productive
>depending on location.  The reference states that the procedure is
>well suited to areas with short, intense honey flows (such as those
>experienced in the Northeast US - where I'm located), but is not worth
>the bother for beekeepers in the southern US.  I don't recognize your
>location from your address, but the heather reference brings England
>or Scottland to mind.  Also, the procedures call for removing
>the queen excluders in the fall to let the queens 'decide' who the
>surviving monarch will be for the winter months.
>
>The two queen method is intriguing, may yield impressive harvests,
>but is not well suited for all areas.  For the best information,
>go right to the source ("The Hive and the Honeybee").
 
And yet more discussion:
 
>   The benefit of operating a hive with two queens is that you have
>two queens producing workers within the same hive, and a very
>populous hive will produce more honey.  Experiments have shown that
>doubling the number of bees in a hive can more than double the honey
>production.  A 'normal' hive may fill one or two supers, whereas a
>two queen hive could fill four to six supers.
>
>   The down side is that running a two queen set up requires a lot
>more work: hive manipulations, setting up the hive in the first place,
>having enough honey supers ready, and adding supers to the colony
>requires a lot more unstacking and restacking.
>
For the full discussion, retrieve the BEE-L LOG9406 and BEE-L LOG9407
by sending mail to [email-masked] with two lines in the
body of the mail that read:
               GET BEE-L LOG9406
               GET BEE-L LOG9407
Better yet, go to a library and read up on two queen management
techniques in "The Hive and the Honeybee".
 
Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!

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From: [email-masked] (Owen Watson)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 19:29:17 +1200

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]

> techniques in "The Hive and the Honeybee".

Another reference: The Skyscraper Hive, by Father M Dugat, Faber & Faber,
mcmxlviii .

and

The single-Queen and Two-Queen Systems of Colony Management under
commercial beekeeping conditions (Journal of the Royal New Zealand
Institute of Horticulture, date unknown). The author says that it requires
more work and equipment but gets you more honey for your time/investment
etc.

Another advantage of the two-queen system is that if one queen fails, the
colony doesn't.

-- 
_______________________________________________
Owen Watson, The Royal Society of New Zealand
Web server: http://www.rsnz.govt.nz/