Subject: The hive ain't empty...

From: [email-masked] (Mark Sandrock)
Date: 5 Aug 94 20:05:12 GMT

Since I stirred things up a bit with my questions about empty hives
and robber bees, I thought it might be good to let people know what
I've found since then.

Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling
about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as
opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb
on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so
thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead
removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the
top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared
to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if
this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned
me somewhat.

The bees seemed quite calm and gentle. A dozen or two were floating
around the hive, a few seemed to check me out, but they mostly seemed to
ignore me--a rather gratifying attitude to my way of thinking. :-)

I could easily see dozens of bees crawling around on the frames, and
one thing that puzzled me a bit was they mostly seemed to ignore the
smoke I would puff at them occasionally. Still, it felt reassuring to
have the smoker handy.

I'm going out of town this weekend, but next week I intend to look at
a few more frames and try to spot the queen and/or active brood cells.

Anyway, my newbie impression is that a colony has indeed moved in,
but perhaps someone would care to interpret what I've seen so far.

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments.

Mark Sandrock
-- 
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	"Fruechte reifen durch die Sonne,
Chemical Sciences Computer Center	 Menschen durch die Liebe."
505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801			--Julius Langbehn
Email: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:59:21 GMT

In article <sandrock.776117112@aries> [email-masked] (Mark Sandrock) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Mark Sandrock)

>about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as

That sounds reasonably typical of a colony (to me at least)

>removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the

The way I usually open up a hive is to remove one of the edge frames, in 
your case, the shady side one as it would have less bees and wax on it, 
then move the others across so that you have room to manipulate them.

>to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if

Find some literature on AFB, and compare any pictures in it with what you 
see...also chalk brrod, EFB, and other brood diseases.  If you are still in 
doubt, cut a piece of the affected comb and send it to a bee inspector  type 
place...they will be able to give an accurate diagnosis (free in 
australia...)

apart from all that, good luck, and enjoy.
Adrian.

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Fox)
Date: 8 Aug 1994 12:10:14 GMT

>Thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments.

Seeing brood cells with the tops broken is a disturbing sign. The only time
this should happen is when the new bee is coming out. The cap is then quickly
removed and the cell cleaned up for the next occupant. It may be that these
contain dead bees and they have been opened by the new workers. 
It's hard to quantify numbers of bees by Email but you should be seeing
frames covered with bees, in their hundreds. Certainly they may not move
for smoke, the main effect of smoke is to make them feed and get so full
they can't sting you.
I would suggest looking for eggs and brood. If they are there, you have a working
queen.

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From: [email-masked] (Aaron Morris)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 11:14:44 EDT

In article <sandrock.776117112@aries>
[email-masked] (Mark Sandrock) writes:
 
>    ... one of the middle frames ... had some honey cells along the
 
This COULD be a bad sign.  Normal appearance for hatched out cells is
a bee emerging/chewing its way through the cell cap.  If there are no
emerging bees evident there may me reasons for concern.  If there are
dead bees behind the broken caps there is definite cause for concern,
as this is a symptom of American Foulbrood.
 
The good news is that you're poking around in the hive!  Check again,
but go throught the entire hive.  The capping pattern as you described
may be normal, but it's hard to say without knowing what things looked
like surrounding that frame.  It may be the case that the middle frame
you picked was an area of the brood chamber that had just hatched all
of the bees and had not yet been reused by the queen.  Hopefully, this
is the case.  Or, it may be indicative of a brood disease.  The things
to look for are whether the cells are empty and clean, ready for the
next generation, and how the pattern you observed compares to the
pattern of the surrounding frames.
 
Also, use your other senses: sound and smell.  These are harder senses
to develope and exploit when working your bees, but they are very
valuable to the beekeeper.  Listen to the buzzing of the bees.  Is it a
busy, hive at work sort of sound (that's the impression I get from your
description) or is it a stressed tone?  It's hard to describe the
difference, and perhaps the destinction only comes with experience.
Smell is also important.  Does the hive smell normal?  Literature describes
the smell of foulbrood as sickly sweet, but it's hard to put those words
into an olfactory experience other than to experience it.  And if you are
able to experience it, learn it(!), because it's not an experience you'll
care to oft' repeat.
 
Otherwise, it sounds like you're getting into the experience of
beekeeping.  Good luck with your subsequent inspections!
 
Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!

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From: [email-masked] (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:59:21 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (John E. Fox)
Date: 8 Aug 1994 12:10:14 GMT

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From: [email-masked] (Aaron Morris)
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 11:14:44 EDT