Subject: Re: LICORICE ON THE FAST TRACK

From: [email-masked] (Glacier Gruff Esq.)
Date: 29 Jun 1996 00:42:29 GMT

Greetings from the Matanuska-Knik-Portage terminal moraine..

K. Weber ([email-masked]) wrote:
:       I have been conducting a science experiment. I put a glass of 
: licorice root tea on my window sill for a week to see if it would show 
: any evidence of fermentation--candida growth. It hasn't. Licorice is a 
: kind of sugar and various micro-organisms will not grow in a strong 
: solution of sugar. This is how sugar preserves fruit in jam. I'm going to 
: try a better experiment w/ a dilute solution of sugar and a pH test strip.

What you have described  is not an experiment...
Kind of sugar??? Not!!!

:      I don't think folks w/out blood clots or hypertension need any 
: special precautions  when taking licorice. I think people should take 
: licorice root tea whenever possible. 

Even if it destroys their endocrine system?  You THINK???

: Black licorice is vaguely carcinogenic ( RCC
: guide to medicinal herbs) . 

Vaguely???? My GAWD...is that from windowsill experiments, too???

[snip..]

:      Also since this is  going out to other groups low blood pressure is 
: not a problem in entirely healthy people. except in very hot wheather 
: were it could substitute for salt tablets or Gatorade. It is very very 
: good in a sort of lemonade
: w/ fresh lemon or malic acid or a vitamin C powder. Malic acid powder is 
: purchased very cheaply at brewer's supply houses. It substitutes for 
: green apples in beer. 

It sure as HELL can BECOME a blood pressure problem for some people
if taken indiscriminately...

As I sit here, with a partially functioning endocrine system, oft
shaking from adrenalin rushes which my liver can not metabolize because
of liver damage...all from the casual use of  

L I C O R I C E   T E A

exactly as this writer is suggesting...over multiple groups,
all I can say is 

D O N ' T  do it....it DOES taste good, it DOES provide instant 
energy in times of emergency, such as a chilled body core during
a mountain climb....

but DAMMIT....the long term casual use of the  stuff is 
DANGEROUS beyond belief....I did it out of sheer ignorance,
and hope to keep anyone else from systematically destroying
the most precise system in their body because they are 
similarly uninformed...

If you DON'T believe me..go to the nearest Health Food
store or library that that has a good book on the
chemistry of herbs, and look up Licorice Root Tea...
you will find such things as "natural estrogen<'
etc...and    W A R N I N G S...

This guy is like a kid playing with a dynamite cap...

sincerly,
Gruff

---

From: [email-masked](David Williams)
Date: 30 Jun 1996 13:58:20 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Glacier Gruff

>if taken indiscriminately...

I totally agree.  People who tend to hypertension or have existing
liver and kidney problems should not take licorice.

>As I sit here, with a partially functioning endocrine system

What is partially functioning in your endocrine system?  You are
talking far to general and broad.

>shaking from adrenalin rushes which my liver can not metabolize
>because of liver damage...all from the casual use of  
>L I C O R I C E   T E A

Maybe someone spiked your tea with arsnic?  Either that, or you are
under some sort of false impression.  Licorice is used sucessfully in
Japan to tried hepatitis and would not likely destroy your liver.

>all I can say is D O N ' T  do it....it DOES taste good, it DOES
>provide instant energy in times of emergency, such as a chilled body
>core during a mountain climb....

>the most precise system in their body because they are 

What do you consider causal use?  How much did you ingest?  One man's
cure can be another poison.  I suggest you had something else very
unique wrong with you.  Licorice has been used casually all over the
world for 3,500 hundred years by 100s of millions of people.

>you will find such things as "natural estrogen<'

Yes, licorice is estrogenic and can be useful for women going through
menopause.  It is one of the most researched herbs in the world.  Over
200 research papers have been written about licorice since 1992.  None
indicated that licorice causes cancer.  

Maybe Gruff thinks estrogenic means cancer causing?

Captain Dave

---

From: [email-masked] (Seeps)
Date: 1 Jul 1996 22:12:20 -0400

This whole topic is getting out of hand!

Christina Bolas

---

From: Camilla Cracchiolo <[email-masked]>
Date: 3 Jul 1996 17:33:01 -0700

In traditional herbal medicine, licorice root is used in very small doses 
and in combination with other herbs.  Under the supervision of a person 
knowledgable about herbal medicine, this is probably pretty safe.  

Taking licorice every day, without supervision, may eventually cause 
problems even in healthy people.  A lot depends on how much licorice 
you're using and in what form you're consuming the licorice.  It also 
depends on if you are taking other drugs (oral contraceptives or 
corticosteroids, for example) or eating foods like grapefruit 
that can increase the effects of licorice.  Persons with a strong family 
history of high blood pressure or who have liver or kidney damage may 
also be at higher risk of complications.

The ingredient that causes the blood pressure increase and potassium 
depletion is glycyrrhzin, also called glycyrrhizic acid.  (BTW, blood 
pressure increase and cardiac arrthymia are not the only adverse effects 
>from  glycyrrizin: it can also cause paralysis due to muscle damage.  
Fortuntately, it usually, but not always, reverses when the glycyrrhzin 
is stopped and potassium supplements are given.)

Glycyrrhizin occurs normally in licorice root in amounts ranging from 5% to 
27%. Almost all of the serious problems and deaths from licorice involved 
glycyrrhizin extracts and there is some reason to believe that 
glycyrrhizin in whole licorice root does not have as strong an effect as 
pure extracted glycyrrhizin.  However,  I do know a man who developed a 
cardiac arrhythmia due to potassium depletion from whole licorice root.  He 
brewed a strong tea and drank it daily because he liked the taste.

In Germany, herbs are regulated as over the counter drugs.  The German 
Pharmacoepeal Commission decides what the label may say.  They believe 
that up to 100 mg. of glycyrrizin may be consumed for it's taste 
indefinitely.  However, there is at least one study suggesting that doses 
as low as 50 mg. of glycyrrhizin may raise blood pressure over time.
This equals between 0.5 gram and 2.7 gram of whole root.  (Remember: 1000 
mg to 1 gram).

They have further stated that between 200 mg and 800 mg glycyrrhizin 
(equal to 5-15 gram whole root) may be consumed theraputically by persons 
who have no counterindications for up to 6 weeks without a doctor's 
supervision.  Doses above that amount or for a longer period of time 
should be used only under the supervision of an MD.

It is possible to obtain licorice from which all the glycyrrhizin has 
been removed.  This is called deglycyrrhized licorice and appears to be 
quite safe.  It does have pharmacologic effects and can be useful as an 
adjunct to antibiotic therapy for ulcers and in the treatment of 
gastritis because it increases the rate at which cells reproduce in the 
stomach lining.  It is not known whether deglycyrrhized licorice possesses 
any other theraputic effects.  

   "The trick is to keep an open mind, without it being so open
                      that your brain falls out."

           Camilla Cracchiolo, RN   [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked](David Williams)
Date: 4 Jul 1996 04:42:17 GMT

The statement, "licorice root is used in very small doses" is vague and
not very useful!  What do you mean by small doses?

>Taking licorice every day, without supervision, may eventually cause 
problems even in healthy people.

Taking licorice every day, without supervision, WILL MORE LIKELY CAUSE
PROBLEMS IN HEALTHY PEOPLE.  Healthy people, who do not need the
pharmological properties of licorice can become very ill from taking this
herb.  However, sick people who need the pharmological properties of
licorice can ingest great amounts of the herb and reap much benefit.  A
dose that may heal a sick person could kill a healthy one.

>A lot depends on how much licorice you're using and in what form you're
consuming the licorice.  It also depends on if you are taking other drugs
(oral contraceptives or corticosteroids, for example) or eating foods like
grapefruit that can increase the effects of licorice.

Yes, grapefruit can increase the effects of licorice, but only slightly
and not enough to be concerned whatsoever unless one is eating 20
grapefruit per day.

>Persons with a strong family history of high blood pressure or who
have liver or kidney damage may also be at higher risk of
complications.

Right on, Nurse Camilla!!!

>from glycyrrizin: it can also cause paralysis due to muscle damage.

Yes, several people ingesting hugh amounts of licorice have developled
propblems with muscles after many years on continuious use.  But
thousands of times more people have been killed by taking OTC drugs.

Glycyrrhizic acid does deplete potassium, but at the same time it
increases salt.  A person would retain water and swell drastically
before they reacha serious depeltion on potassium.  No serious
permenant health problems due to potasium depletion have resulted by
sane people who have ingested large amounts of licorice.  They simply
swell up too much fro too much salt retention and stop taking licorice
before potassium depletion becomes life threatning.

>Glycyrrhizin occurs normally in licorice root in amounts ranging from
5%
>to 27%.

Glycyrrhizic acid (GA) content usually ranges from 3.5% to 10%.  The 27%
GA content licorice is rare and expensive and must be specially
spray-dried.  One is not likely to incounter this high content licorice by
accident. 

>Almost all of the serious problems and deaths from licorice involved 
>glycyrrhizin extracts

There is one death on record and if was from a 70 year old man who
ingested large qualities for 8 years and likely had many other conditions.
 He would have probabl;y died two weeks later from something else.

>and there is some reason to believe that glycyrrhizin in whole licorice
root does not have as strong an effect as pure extracted glycyrrhizin. 
However,  I do know a man who developed a cardiac arrhythmia due to
potassium depletion from whole licorice root.  He brewed a strong tea and
drank it daily because he liked the taste.

Nurse Camilla, you know a man who said he developed a problem from
licorice, just as I know a man who said he developed cancer from eating
apples.  No science whatsoever involved in your statement here.

>as low as 50 mg. of glycyrrhizin may raise blood pressure over time.

There are many studies which say the opposite.  Evidence from your past
post indicate that you have made it your mission in life to have all
herbal products come under the control of the FDA.  Your goal is to get
the laws changed and make herbal and alterntive remedies much more
expensive and difficult to obtain.  I suggest you find another cause to
champion, like child-abuse or lightning on golf courses, or handguns, or
legally prescribed drugs.  So many other causes could use a flag-waving,
never-give-up go-getter like you.  Why pick on herbs? 

mg to 1 gram).

Thanks for keeping us up on the metric system.

supervision.

Nurse Camilla, I agree somewhat here.  I believe a healthy person can
consume up to 800 mg of GA/day if they don't have any serious problems. 
However, a person with CFS/FM with low/low normal blood pressure and low
cortisol levels could  consume up to 3000 mg per day for 6-8 weeks without
harm as long as they check their blood pressure and watch for severe
sweeling on the ankles and feet.  If their blood pressure increase more
than 20-30 points and their feet start to swell severely, then they should
lower their dose.

>Doses above that amount or for a longer period of time should be used
only under the supervision of an MD.

I also agree here.

---

From: Camilla Cracchiolo <[email-masked]>
Date: 3 Jul 1996 23:53:01 -0700

David Williams <[email-masked]> wrote:

: Taking licorice every day, without supervision, WILL MORE LIKELY CAUSE
: PROBLEMS IN HEALTHY PEOPLE.  Healthy people, who do not need the
: pharmological properties of licorice can become very ill from taking this
: herb.  However, sick people who need the pharmological properties of
: licorice can ingest great amounts of the herb and reap much benefit.  A
: dose that may heal a sick person could kill a healthy one.

Sigh.  Look, David.  You are going on the assumption that you, and 
presumably Dr. Baschetti, know everything you need to about Chronic 
Fatigue Syndrome, not to mention licorice.  From what I've seen of your 
posts and Dr. Baschetti's letters, you are both working on the assumption 
that all CFS is just an atypical adrenal insufficiency syndrome.  Things 
are a lot more complicated than that.  It is true that people with primary
adrenal insufficiency tend to retain more potassium than other folks.  
I will grant you that blindly supplementing potassium in these folks can 
cause serious harm.  Which to me indicates that this is yet another good 
reason to have your serum potassium levels regularly checked and to use 
licorice under a doctor's supervision; whereas you appear to to think 
that it's fine to throw all caution to the winds, forget about seeing 
a doctor and that folks should just buy large amounts of licorice, 
preferably from you.

But things in CFS are just not that clear cut, and Baschetti has already 
displayed absymal ignorance of CFS in his statements that people with CFS 
can't ever have high blood pressure.  All kinds of stuff is going on in 
CFS: take intracellular mineral transport.  According to CFS researchers 
I'm talking to, some people with CFS appear to have relatively high 
amounts of serum potassium but low amounts intracellularly.  This is 
consistant with other findings in CFS that something is very screwy with 
cellular metabolism and with previous findings that cellular magnesium 
and calcium levels are often low.  So what happens if these folks start 
losing serum potassium?  We DONT KNOW.

Both the blood pressure situation and the  adrenal findings in CFS are 
also very complicated.  Some people with CFS don't respond when injected 
with ACTH (adrenal corticotropic hormone) whch should send their cortisol 
levels way up.  This indicates that some people may have a primary 
problem in the adrenals.  However, there is Mark Demitrack's research 
that suggests that many people with CFS have problems in the pituitary 
and hypothalmic hormones that regulate adrenal activity and that the 
adrenals themselves are fine.  

There is also Peter Rowe's research on neurally mediated hypotension, 
which is strictly a neurologic reflex and has nothing to do with adrenal 
insufficiency.  Nobody knows why anyone with vasodepressor syncope, CFS 
or not, responds to Florinef.  It does increase blood volume for a short 
while, but then the effect goes away. Given that Florinef has mild 
glucocorticoid effects (something else your idol Baschetti is ignorant 
about), and given that glucocorticoids have effects on brain chemistry 
(they can send some people into psychosis: bet you didn't know that 
either), it is not unreasonable to suspect a direct effect on the 
central nervous system. 

There are also people with CFS who are responding to beta blockers, 
which are drugs that LOWER blood pressure.  Explain THAT as adrenal 
insufficiency.  It appears that episodes of neurally mediated 
hypotension are triggered by an increase in adrenalin levels.  In these 
folks, a reflex kicks in to lower the blood pressure.  Beta blockers 
block the effects of adrenalin on the beta receptors and so can prevent 
this reflex from kicking in.

: >A lot depends on how much licorice you're using and in what form you're
: consuming the licorice.  It also depends on if you are taking other drugs
: (oral contraceptives or corticosteroids, for example) or eating foods like
: grapefruit that can increase the effects of licorice.

: Yes, grapefruit can increase the effects of licorice, but only slightly
: and not enough to be concerned whatsoever unless one is eating 20
: grapefruit per day.

oh yes.  Like the time you ate two grapefruit and had your ankles swell.  
After only a week on the Scientific Botanicals licorice as I recall.  
Which, BTW, not only indicates sodium excess but can also mean a loss of
intracellular potassium.  Potassium is the main mineral that regulates 
fluid balance inside of cells.  Loss of potassium means that water leaves 
the cells for the blood stream.  Oh, and for the record, I think that 
your recommendation to take licorice until you have swelling is *highly* 
irresponsible.

: Right on, Nurse Camilla!!!

: >The ingredient that causes the blood pressure increase and potassium 
: >depletion is glycyrrhzin, also called glycyrrhizic acid.  (BTW, blood 
: >pressure increase and cardiac arrthymia are not the only adverse
: effects 
: >from glycyrrizin: it can also cause paralysis due to muscle damage.

: Yes, several people ingesting hugh amounts of licorice have developled
: propblems with muscles after many years on continuious use.  But
: thousands of times more people have been killed by taking OTC drugs.

You know, I have to laugh when folks bring up the evils of mainstream 
medicine as a defense.  So many mainstream treatments can be dangerous.  
So what? That has NOTHING to do with the subject we are discussing.
The fact that Dr. X may kill and maim his patients does not therefore 
give someone else license to only kill and maim a little.  I am reminded 
of the times when kids who have done something bad tell their parents: 
'But Johnny does it all the time."  The parental response is usually:
"So if everyone else is jumping off a bridge does that mean you do it too?"
Every treatment, mainstream or otherwise, must be evaluated on its OWN 
merits.

: Glycyrrhizic acid does deplete potassium, but at the same time it
: increases salt.  A person would retain water and swell drastically
: before they reacha serious depeltion on potassium.  No serious
: permenant health problems due to potasium depletion have resulted by
: sane people who have ingested large amounts of licorice.  They simply
: swell up too much fro too much salt retention and stop taking licorice

Oh, you mean like the man who suddenly went into quadriplegic paralysis 
with no swelling or other warning signs?  I sent you that case report as 
I recall.

: Glycyrrhizic acid (GA) content usually ranges from 3.5% to 10%.  The 27%
: GA content licorice is rare and expensive and must be specially
: spray-dried.  One is not likely to incounter this high content licorice by
: accident. 

I might grant you that one. 

: >Almost all of the serious problems and deaths from licorice involved 
: >glycyrrhizin extracts

: There is one death on record and if was from a 70 year old man who
: ingested large qualities for 8 years and likely had many other conditions.
:  He would have probabl;y died two weeks later from something else.

Excuse me?  There are a lot more than one death on record from licorice.

: >and there is some reason to believe that glycyrrhizin in whole licorice
: root does not have as strong an effect as pure extracted glycyrrhizin. 
: However,  I do know a man who developed a cardiac arrhythmia due to
: potassium depletion from whole licorice root.  He brewed a strong tea and
: drank it daily because he liked the taste.

: Nurse Camilla, you know a man who said he developed a problem from
: licorice, just as I know a man who said he developed cancer from eating
: apples.  No science whatsoever involved in your statement here.

oh, horseshit.  He went to the doc and his serum potassium level was 
2.0.  Docs had been trying to find the source of this arrthymia for years.
And it all went away and never came back as soon as he discontinued the
licorice.  It's entirely consistent with everything we know about the 
relationship between potassium and cardiac function, which is one of the 
best understood areas of medical physiology.  It's also completely 
consistent with everything we know about the pharmacology of licorice.

: >In Germany, herbs are regulated as over the counter drugs.  The German 
: >Pharmacoepeal Commission decides what the label may say.  They believe 
: >that up to 100 mg. of glycyrrizin may be consumed for it's taste 
: >indefinitely.  However, there is at least one study suggesting that doses
: >as low as 50 mg. of glycyrrhizin may raise blood pressure over time.

: There are many studies which say the opposite.  Evidence from your past
: post indicate that you have made it your mission in life to have all
: herbal products come under the control of the FDA.  Your goal is to get
: the laws changed and make herbal and alterntive remedies much more
: expensive and difficult to obtain.  I suggest you find another cause to
: champion, like child-abuse or lightning on golf courses, or handguns, or
: legally prescribed drugs.  So many other causes could use a flag-waving,
: never-give-up go-getter like you.  Why pick on herbs? 

Ah, yes.  You keep repeating this lie.   My goal is to get 
herbs properly labelled.  Something that many reputable herb 
distributors and the American Botainical Council also want to see.  The 
law that I support would permit herbs to be sold as over the counter 
drugs in pharmacies: that is scarcely reducing their availability.  In 
fact, as far as I can tell, it would greatly increase their availability 
particularly since this would go a long way toward mainstream medicine 
adopting various herbs.  Herb distributors would be allowed to make 
claims supported by traditional folklore and already existing 
pharmacognosy literature.  They would not have to conduct *any* of the 
expensive efficacy and human trials the FDA now requires.   I fail to see 
how this increases the  cost of herbs by one penny.  Ok, maybe by one 
penny: that's probably about what it would cost to print up a label.

--

---

From: [email-masked] (Nicholas Migliozzi)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 10:44:07 -0400

I eat a lot of anise, which I believe is used to
make licorice.

Is this safe?

Is this the same as licorice root?

I've always heard it is good for the
digestive system.  Is this true?

Curious,

Nick Mig
-----------------------------------------
    Take a dazzling "Voyage Through Life" at: 

                http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2571

---

From: [email-masked] (Callie)
Date: 4 Jul 1996 09:30:02 -0700

>: dose that may heal a sick person could kill a healthy one.

David - 
  There is a basic problem with self-medication: 
The symptoms relieved by licorice (lethargy, exhaustion, confusion)
The symptoms caused by low potassiium (pretty much the same)

  So the person takes licorice, feels better for a while, and then
when potassium depletion symptoms set in, unless they are also being
monitored for hyperkalemia, they do the human thing.
They take MORE OF WHAT MADE THEM FEEL BETTER .... increase their
licorice dosage, and thereby increase the rate of potassium depletion.
Not a good thing.

>Camilla Cracchiolo <[email-masked]> wrote:

Snipped lots of very reasonable stuff, citing lots of research.  CFS
is the surface sign of something that hasn't been figured out yet, but
the research tools were not available until recently.
My initial thought is that there are several things being lumped under
the same name.

>We DONT KNOW.
Boy, is that one right!  

>: Right on, Nurse Camilla!!!
Don't know who said that, but I agree.  Herbs are not innately
harmless, and if you doubt me, try some water parsnips for dinner.

>: thousands of times more people have been killed by taking OTC drugs.
  Bad statistics: merely because thousands times MORE persons take
many different OTC drugs you would expect thousands times more.
if 1,000 persons take licorice and one has an adverse reaction, and
100,000 persons take aspirin ... there can be 100 adverse reactions
and one can still say they are equally safe.
 - and no one has ever said that aspirin is absolutely safe, and all
OTC stuff comes with the contraindications and side effects clearly on
the bottle.  Wish herbs did the same.
 
>medicine as a defense.  
your ribs must be aching ... it gets brought up a lot.

>: before they reacha serious depeltion on potassium.  
Absolutely incorrect!!!!!  when the depletion is rapid, as happens
with drug-induced depletions (licorice included) there may not be any
signs before the person keels over.  I've seen the patients, and they
were usually on some self-inflicted wonder diet/drug.

>Excuse me?  There are a lot more than one death on record from licorice.
  there were enough, early on, that licorice for candy is
de-glycyrrhizined before sale.

>herbs properly labelled.
Not a bad goal.  I can see the ma huang labels now .... :)
Callie

[email-masked]            | Captain, HTML Police
http://www.writepage.com        | Keeper of the HTML Flame

---

From: [email-masked](James di Paulo )
Date: 4 Jul 1996 23:27:43 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Nicholas
>I eat a lot of anise, which I believe is used to
Anise is used to flavor commercial licorice candy.

>Is this safe?
Probably, it is used mainly in cough drops/syrups and as a flavoring
agent. It is also used to treat colic in children and flatulence.

>Is this the same as licorice root?
Nope, a completly different thing.

>I've always heard it is good for the digestive system.  Is this true?

Possibly, see comment above. However, as with everything, more is not
always better than less. <smile>

If you are really interested in herbalism, why not buy a good book and
begin reading and learning about these things before you take something
that might not be the best thing to do.

James

---

From: [email-masked](David Williams)
Date: 5 Jul 1996 00:07:26 GMT

[email-masked] (Callie) writes: 

>>: Taking licorice every day, without supervision, WILL MORE LIKELY
CAUSE PROBLEMS IN HEALTHY PEOPLE.  Healthy people, who do not need the
pharmological properties of licorice can become very ill from taking
this herb.  However, sick people who need the pharmological properties
of licorice can ingest great amounts of the herb and reap much benefit.
A dose that may heal a sick person could kill a healthy one.

>David - There is a basic problem with self-medication: 
The symptoms relieved by licorice (lethargy, exhaustion, confusion)
The symptoms caused by low potassiium (pretty much the same)
So the person takes licorice, feels better for a while, and then
when potassium depletion symptoms set in, unless they are also being
monitored for hyperkalemia, they do the human thing. They take MORE OF
WHAT MADE THEM FEEL BETTER .... increase their licorice dosage, and
thereby increase the rate of potassium depletion.
Not a good thing.

Callie, please try to understand something.  I will write plain english
so you do not miss anything.  This thread is not about normal healthy
people taking licorice.  We are talking about a subset of people with
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome with low cortisol, low blood pressure and
neurally mediated hypotension.  This subset of people retain too much
potassium and excrete too much salt.  They have a salt/potassium
imbalance (too much potassium-not enought salt).

If this subset of "sick" people ingest enough licorice to provide
500-1000 mg of glycyrrhizic acid (GA) per day, the GA inhibits 11-beta
hydroisteriod dehydrogenase and raises their minerocorticoids and
cortisol and brings them into salt/potassium balance and they do not
need to supplement potassium because they are now balanced.

If a healthy person who was in salt/potassium balance in the first
place ingested that much licorice they would need lots of potassium. 
The poiny here is that a certain subset of people with CFS need the
phamological properties of licorice and do quite well on large doses,
while others don't need the phamological properties of licorice and
would become sick if they ingest too much.  

Did I say it simple enough?

Captain Dave.

---

From: [email-masked] (Glacier Gruff Esq.)
Date: 4 Jul 1996 17:57:16 GMT

Greetings from the glacial moraine....
 
: : Right on, Nurse Camilla!!!
 
Whenever someone throws out such intractable "intellectual blackmail"
as this, much the same as professors do to teachers, I quit reading,
or listening, to their discourse. It is not coming from a desire
to inform, it is coming from a desire to POSITION, much as
dogs do when peeing on fire hydrants...
 
Thus I feel compelled, at times, to compare arrogant intellectual
behavior to primordial displays, rather than logical discussion.
 
Gruff

Maybe the good doctor will someday come to realize that Abraham
Lincoln did not go to school at all, but was rather a good
statesman....

---

From: [email-masked] (Mark London)
Date: 6 JUL 96 15:01:47 GMT

PLEASE STOP THIS THREAD AS IT'S POSTED TO MANY NEWS GROUPS.  THANKS.

In a previous article, [email-masked] (Nicholas Migliozzi) wrote:
->I eat a lot of anise, which I believe is used to
->make licorice.
-> 
->Is this safe?
-> 
->Is this the same as licorice root?
-> 
->I've always heard it is good for the
->digestive system.  Is this true?
-> 
->Curious,
-> 
->Nick Mig
->-----------------------------------------
->    Take a dazzling "Voyage Through Life" at: 
-> 
->                http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2571

Mark London
[email-masked]