Subject: Botany as a career

From: [email-masked] ('PopLlama' K. G. Giambrone)
Date: 10 Aug 1995 06:04:56 GMT

This fall I will begin the last two years of my BS in biology.  I want to
specialize in botany, however I have some concerns.  I am very curious 
about what kind of a job I can get with a specialization of Botany.

Now, I realize that a BS in biology is quite common.  And I plan on 
continuing to my Masters, and probably to my Doctorate.  I'm wondering 
what kinds of directions I can go with a degree in Botany, and if it is
a good idea.

There seem to be many more positions open for Cellular/Molecular Biology and
Biochemistry than Botany.  Would this be a better path to take?  

I find botany (and mycology) very interesting, but that's not a whole lot
if I can't make a living off of it.  :)

[email-masked]
 
-- 
"You're dangerous, crazed and wacko."
"Of course!  I'm an artist."			-Gonzo, The Muppet Show

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From: [email-masked] (Pati)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 15:25:01 EDT

>if I can't make a living off of it.  :)
Yes, it *is* a whole lot, because you are much more likely to make a
living (happily) doing something that you love!  And if you are planning
on getting a PhD, you better love it!  Alot...your whole self goes into
getting that degree...do you even like Mol. Bio.?  If not, who cares
that there are many more job...there are also many more people *doing*
it and who would be competeing with you for those jobs.
I am a botanist.  I will be finishing up a PhD in Botany in a year.  And
I *love* what I am doing!!!!  Will I get a job?  You bet!!  I'm smart,
I'm well trained, and I'm very flexible.  I'm willing to move.  And I'm
willing to go either on an academic or a private sector track.  I'm
trained in plant demography, as well as plant morphology, and I could
apply for a job as an assistant prof (given a good post doc, of course
;-)  )  or as a teaching professor at a small liberal arts college.  I
could work for the park service, the Nature Conservancy or numerous
state agencies.  The opportunities are broad, though rare.  But I
believe that the right place will come at the right time.
I have lamented the host of jobs I see advertised in Mol. Bio.  But I
would not be happy being a molecular biologist!  But that is something
you have to answer for yourself.  Can you stand to be in a lab 14-16
hours a day (that's what I see among the grad students in mol. bio.)?
Working with highly toxic chemicals?  or are you more interested in
being outside, working hands on with plants?  The other thing, what kind
of botany do you want to do?  Once you answer these qustions honestly,
you'll have a much better idea which direction *you* should take!
The best way to find out is to get a work study job insomeone's lab.
You have two years left.  Why not work in a molecular lab, and a botany
lab for a year each?  Let your interest be your guide.  If it sounds
boring from the get go, it *will* bore you!  The actual work of science
is quite tedious, so it's only the facination of the ideas that
sometimes keeeps you going!!
Good luck!!!
Pati Vitt
VITT@UCONNVM            (BITNET)
[email-masked]  (Internet)
"...the seeds of evolution...
 Have we forgotten we're all children?
 Children of a family tree that's longer than a centipede,
 that started long ago, when you and I were only love."
 
  -- The Moody Blues

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From: [email-masked] (David Kirschtel)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 17:41:28 GMT

>Biochemistry than Botany.  Would this be a better path to take?

It doesn't have to be an either/or situation you can do molecular biology 
with plants. Plants are fantastic biochemical factories, orders of 
magnitude more advanced than animal systems. Most of the drugs we use 
(legal and otherwise) are ultimately derived from plant biochemicals 
(which are generally fabricated _de novo_ by the plants). 

All too often people perceive botany as single edifice... walking around 
in the woods collecting flowers and pressing them. There's a lot more to 
botany than systematics/taxonomy. In our dept faculty research runs the 
gamut from purely theoretical ecologists (who spend a good portion of 
their time doing computer modelling/simulation) to molecular biology.
As well as a good deal of "applied" research.

>if I can't make a living off of it.  :)

there's plenty of room in the field to make a career, it just takes a 
little more creativity and imagination than most other career paths. But, 
hey, if you didn't have that creativity and imagination you wouldn't be 
doing science in the first place.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Kirschtel               |
Dept. of Botany               |     What if the 'invisible hand' is 
Univ. of Vermont              |
Burlington, VT 05405-0086     |         guided by myopic eyes.
                              |
tel   802.656.0429            |
email [email-masked]  |
http://www.uvm.edu/~dkirscht/biovol.html

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From: [email-masked] (MC^2)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:21:34 -0800

> [email-masked] writes:
>  

At UC Berkeley, Botany and fragments of genetics and some other dept were
amalgamted into the "Plant Biology" dept, named cellular and molecular
plant bio when I arrived but changed that year. The department is pretty
much focused on molecular biology and development at the moment, and all
the academic universe seems obsessed by Arabidopsis research. Most of the
post-docs I know are finding it very difficult to get academic jobs, jobs
at all in fact. Depresses even the faculty I think, as I saw a comic cut
>from  the journal of higher education displayed on a wall with the caption:
I figure I can retire after 5 more post-docs, or som'n to that effect.
The pep talk is usually if you are good enough you'll get a job. I am not
so sure. I think you need to be mighty lucky, mighty willing to live
someplace you like less than, say, the Bay Area. I've seen quite a few
folks who wanted research labs go off to jobs with teaching duties only.
Many are scrambling now to reinforce those aspect of their cv. Of course
I've seen quite a few go on to great jobs too. 
My view is that graduate skool has gotta be a labor of love, and not a
vocational training process. It isn't worth it unless you really love the
process. As an apprenticeship for financial security it's a bit foolish in
this generation. 6 years (realistic) to get the PhD, 6 of post-docs, 5 of
pre-tenure. That's a long time befor eyou can set down roots, ain't it ?

Just my thoughts,

M

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From: Kelly McGrew <[email-masked]>
Date: 27 Aug 1995 14:48:59 GMT

As an amateur botanist (bryology is my specialty) I can attest to the 
fact of a labor of love.  Having forsaken my love (of botany) for 
several years while in the military, followed by undergraduate school 
and then work, I've returned to her in the last few years.  I thought of 
making a career change, but would need to get a new graduate degree 
followed by a PhD, which would require a minimum of 6 years,--more 
likely 8 including some TA'ing.  The result would be eligibility for a 
job making anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000 less than I do now.  
Were it not for a family, mortgage, etc. I'd do it.  As a computer 
specialist, the irony is I am one of the most educated in my 
workgroup, although many make as much as I do and some with far 
less education make more.

If you don't have any of those accoutraments of life (family, etc.) and 
don't mind several years of being in the lower middle class then by 
all means, go for the PhD.  The only way the salaries for pure science 
professionals will increase is for the supply to decrease and demand 
to remain constant (or supply remain constant and demand increase).  
With so many people willing to sacrifice to be in the field they enjoy, 
don't look for wages to increase significantly in the near future.

An alternative is to do what I've done and select a career which will 
finance your avocation.  Several important contributions to science 
have been made by amateurs and there is every reason to believe that 
amateurs will continue to provide significant contributions to basic 
research.  Pick up a few different keys and you'll see yourself that 
there are "field taxonomists" and "herbarium taxonomists" depending 
upon where they spend their professional life.  Amateurs can provide 
a wealth of field research for the professionals to agaonize over in 
their labs and offices!

Good luck!

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From: [email-masked] (Ron Fritz)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 21:13:55 GMT

MC^2 ([email-masked]) wrote:
[....]
: My view is that graduate skool has gotta be a labor of love, and not a
: vocational training process. It isn't worth it unless you really love the
: process. As an apprenticeship for financial security it's a bit foolish in
: this generation. 6 years (realistic) to get the PhD, 6 of post-docs, 5 of
: pre-tenure. That's a long time befor eyou can set down roots, ain't it ?

: Just my thoughts,

...and akin to mine own. Well put MC^2.
rf
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