Subject: Is Corn a Vegetable or a Grain?

From: [email-masked] (dx)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 02:29:30 GMT

Can someone tell me definitively whether or not Corn is considered a
vegetable?  I always thought if it as so until somoene suggested to
me that it's actually a grain.  Are these mutually exclusive catagories?

Email me if you know.

Thanks!

-dx
-- 
--
           "This is a Debbie Gibson newsgroup.  Hence, by definition,
           it's a war zone." --Michael Falkner

---

From: [email-masked] (Marty Sachs)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 18:18:19 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (Ian Staples) wrote:

:Sweet corn is treated as horticulture by this show as things stand.

Yes, and most do refer to it as a veggie (I guess they would also treat
rice that way???).  However, the only real difference between sweet corn
and feed corn is a mutation of a single gene that blocks starch
biosynthesis (su1 for regular sweet and sh2 for super-sweet).

Besides, as you're probably aware the word 'corn' is actually used to
describe the 'local grain'.  It has only recently (last 20-30 years)
become synonymous with 'maize' outside of the USA.  Until recent history,
the word 'corn' referred to 'barley' in the UK, 'wheat' in the Eastern
Mediterranean area, etc.

Still, by far, most people outside of the USA, refer to this 'corn' as 'maize'.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Sachs                 [email-masked]     (217) 244-0864

         Maize Genetics Cooperation - Stock Center    
S123 Turner Hall            [email-masked] [stock requests]
1102 S. Goodwin Ave.        (217) 333-6631 [phone]
Urbana, IL  61801-4798      (217) 333-6064 [FAX]
                http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/maize [URL]
--------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Marty Sachs)
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:21:19 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (dx) wrote:

:Can someone tell me definitively whether or not Corn is considered a
:vegetable?  I always thought if it as so until somoene suggested to
:me that it's actually a grain.  Are these mutually exclusive catagories?
:
:Email me if you know.
:
:Thanks!

Well, botanically speaking, technically like a tomato, the corn kernel is
a fruit ;-)

However, to get to the point of your question, I assume by 'vegetable',
you are referring to how 'sweet corn' is eaten.  This represents only
about 10% or less of corn grown (the vast majority of it is used as animal
feed; other types are used for Pop Corn, Corn Flour, Corn Syrup, Corn
Starch, Corn Oil).  Corn plant material can be directly fed to animals
(silage); this is closest to what is thought of as a 'vegetable'.

Corn is a grass and therefore, phylogenetically speaking corn's closest
relatives include rice, wheat, barley, rye, Sorghum and millet.  Corn is
classified as a grain crop.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Sachs                 [email-masked]     (217) 244-0864

----------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Ian Staples)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:24:29 GMT

[email-masked] (Marty Sachs) writes:

[You stole my line about "fruit" Marty! :-) ]

>classified as a grain crop.

Sweet corn is treated as horticulture by this show as things stand.

Cheers,  Ian S.

-- 

Ian Staples                        E-mail : [email-masked]
c/- P.O. Box 1054 MAREEBA          Phone  : +61 (0)70 928 555 Home 924 847
Queensland Australia 4880            Fax  : +61 (0)70 923 593   "   "   "

---

From: [email-masked] (megan breuer)
Date: 2 May 1996 03:20:24 GMT

dx ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Can someone tell me definitively whether or not Corn is considered a
: vegetable?  I always thought if it as so until somoene suggested to
: me that it's actually a grain.  Are these mutually exclusive catagories?

: Email me if you know.

: Thanks!

: -dx

	Actually, corn is a fruit, believe it or not.  Along with
certain types of squash, tomatoes, green peppers, and acorns, to name
a few examples.  So it is incorrect to call corn a vegetable, although
I have also seen it referred to as a grain.

Hope this helps..

Meg

                               ------- * -------
	      "The roaring of lions, the howling of wolves, the 
	       raging of the stormy sea, and the destructive sword 
               are portions of eternity too great for the eye of man"
                                ~William Blake
                               _______ * _______

---

From: [email-masked] (Barbara L. Hass)
Date: 29 Apr 1996 18:10:26 -0400

dx ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Can someone tell me definitively whether or not Corn is considered a
: vegetable?  I always thought if it as so until somoene suggested to
: me that it's actually a grain.  Are these mutually exclusive catagories?
:
Corn is considered to be a grain.  While I am not sure of the "biological"
definition of a grain, I can tell you that it isn't a vegetable.  It is, in
fact, a fruit.  Corn belongs to the division magnoliophyta, or angiosperms.
These are the flowering plants, which include corn.  Flowers house the
plant's reproductive structures, the male stamens (housed in the tassle) and
the female ovaries (broadly, in the cob).  The ovaries, which develop into
fruits, contain the ovules, which develop into seeds.

As to whether "grain" and "vegetable" are mutually exclusive, I would
say YES.  I *think* that all grains are angiosperms, and therefore fruits.
 
Barbara Hass
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (M'Daid)
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 02:11:30 GMT

>However, to get to the point of your question, I assume by 'vegetable',

Actually, what is and is not a vegetable is determined by Congress.  
Tomatoes, e.g., are fruits.  But under commerce laws, they are "vegetables." 

      

    

      
Po' que?  Pue', po' jo'er.  Po' supuesto.

J. E. Davis

There is a war between those who say there is a war and those who say 
there isn't.

Leonard Cohen

---

From: [email-masked] (rick strimbeck)
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:45:28 -0600

> say YES.  I *think* that all grains are angiosperms, and therefore fruits.

Going straight for function, I owuld say that with grains, the part of the
plant that is consumed for nutritional benefit is the seed -- usually the
embryo and endosperm. WIth fruits and many things called vegetables, the
part consumed is mainly fleshy or pulpy outgrowths of the ovary or other
tissue of tthe parent plant. Other things called vegetables -- carrots,
spinach, potatoes, asparagus, broccoli -- are leaves, roots, stems,
flowers, etc.

I'm not intimately familar with the morphology of corn, but my guess is
that you're eating mainly seed. Howvere, another poster from a maize
institute called it a veg, so perhaps the main part of the kernal comes
>from  "mom"...

-- 
Rick Strimbeck
University of Vermont
School of Natural Resources
Burlington, VT

---

From: [email-masked] (Marty Sachs)
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:21:57 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] (rick strimbeck) wrote:

:Going straight for function, I owuld say that with grains, the part of the
:plant that is consumed for nutritional benefit is the seed -- usually the
:embryo and endosperm. WIth fruits and many things called vegetables, the
:part consumed is mainly fleshy or pulpy outgrowths of the ovary or other
:tissue of tthe parent plant. Other things called vegetables -- carrots,
:spinach, potatoes, asparagus, broccoli -- are leaves, roots, stems,
:flowers, etc.
:
:I'm not intimately familar with the morphology of corn, but my guess is
:that you're eating mainly seed. Howvere, another poster from a maize
:institute called it a veg, so perhaps the main part of the kernal comes
:from "mom"...

It depends, for simple sweet corn, one is eating the kernels.  Here the
only 'maternal' part is the pericarp (seed coat), so it should be
considered to be a grain (at least to the same degree that eating brown
rice should be).

However, for 'Baby Corn' (found in Eastern cuisine), one is eating is the
unfertilized cob, which is entirely maternal tissue and therefore should
be considered to be a veg.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Sachs              
USDA/ARS & Crop Sciences/UIUC    [email-masked] [internet]
S108 Turner Hall                  
1102 S. Goodwin Ave.             (217) 244-0864 [phone]
Urbana, IL  61801-4798           (217) 333-6064 [FAX]
--------------------------------------------------------------