From polsons@cruzio.com Wed Nov 23 22:24:38 EST 1994
Article: 48229 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: polsons@cruzio.com (The Polsons)
Subject: Re: organic commercial greenhouse
Organization: Cruzio Community Networking System, Santa Cruz, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 1994 23:30:07 GMT
Message-ID: <polsons-1511941530070001@165.227.10.97>
References: <1994Nov8.163359.5450@malins.mala.bc.ca>
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In article <1994Nov8.163359.5450@malins.mala.bc.ca>, kuramoto@mala.bc.ca wrote:

> Is anyone else out there doing greenhouse growing on a large scale using
> strictly organic methods?

Hello! I plan to start doing this in the next few years, but am not
currently doing so. I think It's very workable, especially if you use
things like special whitefly-proof screening in the summer and drip-proof
plastics to reduce the humidity/rainforest effect.

You may want to check out the newsgroup for alternative agriculture,
although I can't think of what it's name is. Hope this helps!

-Willow     (polsons@cruzio.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The green Earth sends her incense up
>From many a mountain shrine;
>From folded leaf and dewey cup
She pours her sacred wine.                - John Greenleaf Whittier
---------------------------------------------------------------------


From kuramoto@mala.bc.ca Wed Nov 23 22:25:08 EST 1994
Article: 48012 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!ctc.com!news.mic.ucla.edu!news.bc.net!mala.bc.ca!kuramoto
From: kuramoto@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: organic commercial greenhouse
Message-ID: <1994Nov17.142756.5540@malins.mala.bc.ca>
Date: 17 Nov 94 14:27:56 -0700
References: <1994Nov8.163359.5450@malins.mala.bc.ca> <polsons-1511941530070001@165.227.10.97>
Organization: Malaspina College
Lines: 26

In article <polsons-1511941530070001@165.227.10.97>, polsons@cruzio.com (The Polsons) writes:
> In article <1994Nov8.163359.5450@malins.mala.bc.ca>, kuramoto@mala.bc.ca wrote:
> 
>> Is anyone else out there doing greenhouse growing on a large scale using
>> strictly organic methods?
> 
> Hello! I plan to start doing this in the next few years, but am not
> currently doing so. I think It's very workable, especially if you use
> things like special whitefly-proof screening in the summer and drip-proof
> plastics to reduce the humidity/rainforest effect.
> 
> You may want to check out the newsgroup for alternative agriculture,
> although I can't think of what it's name is. Hope this helps!
> 
> -Willow     (polsons@cruzio.com)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> The green Earth sends her incense up
> From many a mountain shrine;
> From folded leaf and dewey cup
> She pours her sacred wine.                - John Greenleaf Whittier
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We do use Encarsia formosa, a white fly predator, but htis time of the year
it seems to fall behind.  Screening is difficult with the amount of traffic
we get into and out of our greenhouse, but I also saw in Europe pressurized
greenhouses that would blow bugs away from the door when it was opened.
Good luck, and thanks for responding.  Connie


From ken@bridge.com Wed Nov 23 22:30:20 EST 1994
Article: 48182 of rec.gardens
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From: ken@bridge.com (Ken Hardy)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW sites?
Date: 19 Nov 1994 04:43:22 GMT
Organization: Planet Earth
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

The Polsons (polsons@cruzio.com) wrote:
: Hello! I just got access to the web, and was interested in sites to look
: for. Can anyone supply some, or are they on the FAQ? If so, if anyone
: could post the FAQ, that would be great. THANKS!

Try the Missouri Botanical Garden at
	<http://straylight.tamu.edu/MoBot/welcom.html>
and the Missouri Horticultural Guides at
	<gopher://bigcat.missouri.edu/11/reference/guides-h>

FAQs are posted regularly in groups that have them and are archived
at <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/gardens>.


From green@well.sf.ca.us Wed Nov 23 22:30:51 EST 1994
Article: 48089 of rec.gardens
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From: green@well.sf.ca.us (Lily Pond)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW sites?
Date: 19 Nov 1994 06:14:42 GMT
Organization: The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
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ken@bridge.com (Ken Hardy) writes:

>The Polsons (polsons@cruzio.com) wrote:
>: Hello! I just got access to the web, and was interested in sites to look
>: for. Can anyone supply some, or are they on the FAQ? If so, if anyone
>: could post the FAQ, that would be great. THANKS!

>Try the Missouri Botanical Garden at
>	<http://straylight.tamu.edu/MoBot/welcom.html>
>and the Missouri Horticultural Guides at
>	<gopher://bigcat.missouri.edu/11/reference/guides-h>

>FAQs are posted regularly in groups that have them and are archived
>at <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/gardens>.
These addresses do not seem to work....


From sals@rain.org Wed Nov 23 22:37:22 EST 1994
Article: 48222 of rec.gardens
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From: sals@rain.org
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Time Life's Virtual Garden Web site
Date: 21 Nov 1994 06:19:02 -0800
Organization: the RAIN Network
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References: <3ajaob$i56@news.cais.com>
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I have seen the Virtual Garden and I link to it on my homepage for 
organic gardeners. I is one of the best Web sites on the net keep up the 
great work.


Josh Hartmann (josh@cais.cais.com) 
wrote: : I work with Time Life's "Virtual Garden" Web site
: (http://www.timeinc.com/vg) and am interested in gauging the
: receptiveness among the readers of rec.gardens to posting information
: about what we're adding to the VG. I know commercialization of this
: newsgroup is an issue among the readers, and we respect that. But at
: the same time, since we are not charging for access to the VG, this
: information would seem to benefit all readers.

: Please, send me email to josh@hand.timeinc.com with your feelings.
: (I'll post a summary if there's interest.)

: Thanks,
: -Josh Hartmann
: Time Life Inc.
: josh@hand.timeinc.com


From gravel@sybase.com Wed Nov 23 22:39:31 EST 1994
Article: 48277 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!halon!sybase!gravel
From: gravel@sybase.com (Mike Gravel)
Subject: Re: Gardening Book For New England Area?
Message-ID: <CzMpAA.FnF@sybase.com>
Sender: usenet@sybase.com
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
References:  <3aookb$3et@coyote.rain.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 17:44:34 GMT
Lines: 23

In article <3aookb$3et@coyote.rain.org>, jennings@rain.org writes:
|> I'm located in SoCalif.  A friend -- also located here -- is looking for 
|> a Xmas gift for her children, who are JUST BEGINNING to garden.  THEY are 
|> located outside of Boston, so gardening books for our SoCalif. climate 
|> wouldn't work for them!  
|> Any recommendations would be appreciated.  NEEDED:  A good, all-round, 
|> basic gardening book for the Massachusetts/New England area!  Please post 
|> here, OR e-mail to:	jennings@rain.org
|> Jeri Collari

WGBH, Boston's public television station, produces a show called the Victory
Garden. One of the two demonstration gardens they use in just outside Boston.
There are several books from this show that are good solid basic gardening
books for the Boston area (zone 5 and 6). The books all have "Victory
Garden" in their title. The titles that I am familiar with are:

	Crockett's Victory Garden
	The Victory Garden
	The New Victory Garden (or something similar)
	The Victory Garden Landscape Guide

-Michael



From mfcjohnv@acsu.buffalo.edu Wed Nov 23 22:39:38 EST 1994
Article: 48347 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: mfcjohnv@acsu.buffalo.edu (John Vitale)
Subject: Re: Gardening Book For New England Area?
Message-ID: <CznJLu.929@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu
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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 04:39:30 GMT
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>In article <3aookb$3et@coyote.rain.org>, jennings@rain.org writes:
>|> 
>|> Any recommendations would be appreciated.  NEEDED:  A good, all-round, 
>|> basic gardening book for the Massachusetts/New England area!  Please post 
>|> here, OR e-mail to:	jennings@rain.org
>|> Jeri Collari
>
>WGBH, Boston's public television station, produces a show called the Victory
>Garden...
>. The books all have "Victory
>Garden" in their title. The titles that I am familiar with are:
>
>	Crockett's Victory Garden
>	The Victory Garden
>	The New Victory Garden (or something similar)
>	The Victory Garden Landscape Guide
>
>-Michael
>
I agree with these recommendations and the series on PBS.  Excellent material.


From g-man@garlic.com Sat Nov 26 19:26:16 EST 1994
Article: 48458 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!hilbert.dnai.com!nic.scruz.net!garlic.com!garlic.com!not-for-mail
From: g-man@garlic.com (g-man@garlic.com)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: How do I start a community garden...?
Date: 25 Nov 1994 20:29:04 -0800
Organization: South_Valley_Internet
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Hi, I have recently started a new job with a housing development
company(non-profit) as a support services director. The position is
new so my job description is vague but I have the flexiility to
exercise ny creativity.

I am working with the residents of 4 low-rent housing complexes. 
One of them has a small community garden that is about 50 ft X 50ft.
It seems to be used and I guess the residents have just done fine
as far as peacefully sharing the limited space. Question one- should
I even interfere here(such as trying to involve the kids in growing,
vegetables, to start composting?)?

Second question: has anyone had the experience of the city donating
a piece of land to be used for a community garden, if so was it a long,
drawn out process?

 and is there a book that someone highly recommends
that explains the details of community gardens?


From polsons@cruzio.com Sun Nov 27 17:23:37 EST 1994
Article: 48512 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!nic.scruz.net!cruzio!NewsWatcher!user
From: polsons@cruzio.com (The Polsons)
Subject: Re: Mail order source of African violet
Organization: Cruzio Community Networking System, Santa Cruz, CA
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 02:54:45 GMT
Message-ID: <polsons-2611941854450001@165.227.10.98>
References: <1994Nov23.094135.4118@uxmail.ust.hk>
Sender: news@cruzio.com (The News UID)
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In article <1994Nov23.094135.4118@uxmail.ust.hk>, fn_ray@uxmail.ust.hk
(Yan Tak Chi) wrote:

> Can somebody suggest any mail order sources for African violet?
> Raymond

Oh, there's lots of them. Try going to the library and pick up "African
Violet" magazine, and there's lots of ads. I like Judy's Violets the best,
always healthy plants that arrive in good shape consistantly, and great
customer service. I didn't like Sonja's Violets at all...Avoid them! 

Judy's Violets
9 Graeler Drive
Creve Coeur, MO 63146

-Willow     (polsons@cruzio.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The green Earth sends her incense up
>From many a mountain shrine;
>From folded leaf and dewey cup
She pours her sacred wine.                - John Greenleaf Whittier
---------------------------------------------------------------------


From dawyd@dorsai.org Tue Nov 29 19:29:16 EST 1994
Article: 48549 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dorsai.org!dawyd
From: dawyd@dorsai.org (David Gurzynski)
Subject: Re: How do I start a community garden...?
Message-ID: <AUBskaLp8Xv0069yn@dorsai.org>
Lines: 18
Sender: dawyd@dorsai.org (David Gurzynski)
Cc: g-man@garlic.com
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy - New York
References: <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 16:44:58 GMT

In article <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com>, g-man@garlic.com (g-man@garlic.com) wrote:

{ Second question: has anyone had the experience of the city donating
{ a piece of land to be used for a community garden, if so was it a long,
{ drawn out process?
{
{  and is there a book that someone highly recommends
{ that explains the details of community gardens?

There are two organizations in New York City; The Green Guerillas, and
Operation Green Thumb, that you might want to get in touch with.

Operation Greenthumb  49 Chambers St NY NY   (212)233-2926
The Green Guerillas 625 Broadway NY NY 10012 (212) 674-8124

David Gurzynski  * Oh, some like trips in Luxury shops, and some
dawyd@dorsai.org * in gasoline wagons, and others swear by the
Brooklyn NYC     * upper air and the wings of flying dragons...O Nash


From adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu Tue Nov 29 19:30:47 EST 1994
Article: 48550 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!vtaix.cc.vt.edu!adamf
From: adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu (Adam Finkelstein)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How do I start a community garden...?
Date: 27 Nov 1994 23:05:35 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3bb3c0$3to@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com> <AUBskaLp8Xv0069yn@dorsai.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vtaix.cc.vt.edu
NNTP-Posting-User: adamf

In article <AUBskaLp8Xv0069yn@dorsai.org>,
David Gurzynski <dawyd@dorsai.org> wrote:
>In article <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com>, g-man@garlic.com (g-man@garlic.com) wrote:
>There are two organizations in New York City; The Green Guerillas, and
>Operation Green Thumb, that you might want to get in touch with.
>
>Operation Greenthumb  49 Chambers St NY NY   (212)233-2926
>The Green Guerillas 625 Broadway NY NY 10012 (212) 674-8124
>
 Check out _Seasonal News_, a quarterly Community Supported Agriculture
Newsletter. Indian Line Farm, RR3, Box 85, Great Barrington, MA,  01230
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________________
  Adam Finkelstein    adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu | (awaiting my muse...)
 ___________________________________________|_____________________________


From sradish@delphi.com Tue Nov 29 19:33:23 EST 1994
Article: 48546 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: sradish@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening CD-ROM's...
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 94 01:40:39 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <hu61NJP.sradish@delphi.com>
References: <784750001snz@baloo.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com
X-To: Tom Drynda <tad@baloo.demon.co.uk>

Tom Drynda <tad@baloo.demon.co.uk> writes:
 
>	A few weeks ago I posted a followup to an article requesting
>the phone-number of the US publisher "Books That Work" who recently
>publshed a CD-ROM called "3D Landscape".
 
According to the manual, their technical support number is
(415) 843-4440.  Their bulletin board number is (415) 812-9701.
Address:     Books That Work
             2300 Geng Road, Building 3, Suite 100
             Palo Alto, CA  94303
             U.S.A.
 


From savitar@aol.com Tue Nov 29 19:33:33 EST 1994
Article: 48598 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: savitar@aol.com (Savitar)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening CD-ROM's...
Date: 29 Nov 1994 00:35:37 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 14
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References: <hu61NJP.sradish@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com

In article <hu61NJP.sradish@delphi.com>, sradish@delphi.com writes:

RE: 3D Landscape, their technical support number is
(415) 843-4440.  Their bulletin board number is (415) 812-9701.
Address:     Books That Work
             2300 Geng Road, Building 3, Suite 100
             Palo Alto, CA  94303
             U.S.A.

Be advised that the company  also operates a Web site that includes some
useful gardening information. Their URL is: http://www.btw.com. Check it
out.

Sean C.


From dewey@sooner.ctci.com Tue Nov 29 19:34:44 EST 1994
Article: 48588 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: austin.general,rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!news.dell.com!sooner!dewey
From: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman)
Subject: Ted Fisher: Naturalizing Bulbs
Message-ID: <1994Nov28.123130.20597@sooner.ctci.com>
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Sender: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman)
Organization: CTC, Inc., Austin, TX. U.S. of A. 78731-1819, Great Turtle Island
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 12:31:30 GMT
Lines: 98

	   Naturalizing spring bulbs a bright idea for landscapes

   [Scanned in from Austin American-Statesman(11/05/94) and posted to the
           Internet with permission of Ted Fisher and the AAS ]

	It's cheap. It's easy, It's spectacular. And once done, your efforts 
will endure for years without ever lifting a trowel. 
	It's called "naturalizing," a bulb planting technique that offers an 
inexpensive and carefree way to  enjoy flower bulbs in your landscape. 
	The term naturalizing has two meanings. In one sense, it is a design 
that refers to planting in a manner that appears natural and unplanned. In 
another, it is the horticultural term for plants that survive and thrive in 
areas to which they are not native.
	It doesn't take an expert to create a dazzling naturalized spring bulb 
flower' display, one that will perform well the first year and improve over 
time. It requires only a small amount of knowledge, common sense and the 
motivation to get out this fall and buy and plant the bulbs.
	Naturalizing as a design style uses spring flowers to accent landscape 
features both natural and man-made. Daffodils planted at the base of trees or 
lining a stone wall are examples of first technique.
	The key to a successful naturalized design is knowing that after the 
bulbs flower, they must be left alone with the leaves intact for about six 
weeks, allowing them to yellow and wither naturally. Bulbs need this period to 
regenerate and gather strength for next year's flower production.
	This requirement means that the more native areas of your yard or 
garden might be the most suitable for naturalizing. Other areas, such as the 
front lawn. might be best suited to low, early-flowering bulbs.
	A quick look around your yard will offer many choices for naturalizing:
a hill or bank that can tolerate being left unmowed until April; the area 
beneath a stand of fruit or other deciduous trees; the area around woodpiles or
garden storage sheds; in certain perennial beds, such as around evergreens or 
shrubs; or in any marginal, slightly wild or meadow-like area of your property.
	As a rule, bulbs love sunny Spots with good drainage. When looking for 
a sunny site, keep in mind those areas that are shady in early fall might be 
sunny in early spring before leaves return to the trees.
	Naturalizing exploits an inherent characteristic of many bulbs, the 
ability to adapt themselves to their surroundings and return every year. With 
bulbs suited to naturalizing, you basically plant once then sit back to watch 
your investment grow and multiply each year.
	Not all bulbs will naturalize, however. And not all bulbs which 
naturalize will naturalize everywhere.
	As a rule. bulbs naturalize best in climates that are similar to those 
>from  whence they originally came,
	Narcissus. for example, hail from the temperate mountains of southern 
Europe, where the summers are hot, and the winters are cool. Hence, they tend 
to naturalize well in the Austin area.
	Many bulbs such as narcissus, muscari, alliums and anemone are vigorous
naturalizers and also excellent investments as they will return and multiply 
over the years.
	After you've planned and purchased your bulbs, it's time to plant.
	The trick in a naturalized planting is to make it look ... well, 
natural. The best way to do this is to grab a handful of bulbs, gently toss 
them in the general direction of your chosen location, then plant them where 
they fall. 
	This random method will give you as natural looking and pleasing a 
display as mortals are likely to achieve. No matter what anyone tells you, this
throwing technique will not harm the bulbs.
	As for actually planting the bulbs. some gardeners prefer bulb planting
tools that take out a plug at a time. Others say a spade or garden trowel works
best. Some take the direct approach, cutting into the sod and removing large
sections, laying out the bulbs, then replacing the sections of sod.
	Whatever method you choose, the correct planting depth for the bulbs 
will be listed on the package or on signs or tear-away sheets at the nursery.
	For those who choose a spade as their planting weapons, here's a tip: 
slice into the soil with the spade then just pull back, opening a pocket in the
earth, and slip the bulb in. It isn't necessary to dig a proper hole that 
requires the soil to be shoveled back in. This method works well for bulbs such
as grape hyacinths planted right in the sod.
	Just as mature trees and shrubs add value to a home, so do mature, 
naturalized plantings of bulbs.
	As for long-term care. there's really very little to do. Each fall, you
might want to broadcast a handful or two of slow-release, low-nitrogen 
fertilizer in your planting area. And, in 10 years, if some of the daffodils 
start to look a bit peaked, you might want to dig a few up. divide the clumps 
and re plant them.
	But then again, you might not want to. After all, naturalizing really 
means just that. Once they're in the ground, they're nature's problem and your 
pleasure for years to come.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
     Ted Fisher is the horticulturist with the Travis County Extension
          Service. His column appears on Saturday.  (512)-473-9600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you like these postings, you should tune into KLRU, Public TV channel
18 on Saturdays(check listings) and Sundays for The Central Texas Gardner
Show. Ted Fisher has his own spot on these shows and the shows are always
very local and informative. They are on every 4th Saturday and repeated
on Sunday and sometimes the next weekend.

Side Note: Currently, I'm scanning these in because Ted Fisher writes these
on a *typewriter*, if you like to contribute PC parts, software or dollars to 
a cause to get Ted a computer with some good wordprocessing software, and
modem, please contact me, not Ted. It's a surprise... ;-)  -dewey

-- 
Dewey Coffman  	dewey@ctci.com  dewey@cactus.org  dewey@bga.com CTC Texas Inc.
Notary Public, after 5pm service available.	 USDA Zone 8. Compost Happens.
All opinions expressed are unrelated to reality.	Austin Beer Club
"If you fail to plan, plan to fail" 		"One Dollar, One Vote" [\]


From mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU Tue Nov 29 19:36:00 EST 1994
Article: 48571 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael E. Matthews)
Subject: Making Compost FAQ (long)
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Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 20:48:48 GMT
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The following is a collection of composting advice from Jim
McNelly, aka Mr. Compost. Long-time readers of rec. gardens
will know him well.  It is a compilation of some of his replies
to various questions from this group. It contains the
essentials of composting. If anyone has other of his posts
saved, I would sure like to recieve them.

Michael Matthews in central VA


***************************

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Composting 101
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.2009.2817.0N42A21F@granite.mn.org>
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 02:51:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372


As requested, here is my recipe for home composting.

Mulching (leaving things in layers) is easier than "piling"
organic residues, but there is a place for passive compost
piles as well.  But for those who desire to make an active,
hot, compost pile that is ready for curing in three to four
weeks, here is my tried and true formula for cooking hot
compost.

Active composting is a BATCH process. It differs from passive
piles that just sit there or continuous flow systems where
stuff is periodically dumped on top of the material already in
the bin.

1. PREPARE THE AREA:  Avoid walls and fences that can rot and
discolor. Stay within reach of the hose. Choose a spot away
>from  drainage swales and roof overflow.  Avoid low spots where
water can stand or pond. Leave plenty of room to access with
pitch fork and wheel barrow. The area should be from 6'x6' up
to 12'x9'.

2. CHOOSE YOUR BIN.  Small yards use enclosed plastic,
preferably insulated bins.  Large yards use larger open air
designs without covers. Large doors are better than small ones.
Three stage systems are best, but only one, maybe two bins are
active at any given time. The three stages are stockpiling,
active composting, and curing. Curing piles do not need bins.

3. STOCKPILING:  Since active composting is a batch process, it
requires a full bin of material and this usually requires
stockpiling. Materials easy to store include leaves, wood
mulch, pine needles and cones, old compost, and shredded paper.

4. INOCULATING:  Active composting is helped by adding old
compost or leaf mould as an inoculant. This can range from 10%
up to 50% from the curing pile or the still-cooking, last
batch. Avoid soil except as a last resort.  Use bagged compost
or manure if starting for the first time.  Packaged inoculants
do no harm, and may even help, but are not a substitute for old
compost.

5.MIXING and 6. WATERING:  Layer your various ingredients
OUTSIDE THE BIN, watering each layer as you go. Think "Green
and Brown". Add 10% bulky matter like wood chips to keep the
pile loose to avoid matting. THEN fork the layers into the bin,
mixing as you go, blending wet with dry, watering as necessary.
Water like a seed bed, avoiding runoff. The mix should end up
50% moisture like a damp sponge. Now and during the 3 weeks of
active composting is the time to add table scraps. Avoid adding
lime, it can disturb the natural pH shift and delay
decomposition.

7. AERATE: Like any other form of livestock, your "herd" of
bacteria needs food, air, and water. You have added food with a
balance of carbon and nitrogen, which is the green and brown.
You just added water. Now the bacteria need air. Old compost
theory suggests that you "turn the pile for aeration; recent
studies show that a pile uses up its oxygen in as little as 1/2
hour after turning.

Like a barbecue or a fireplace grate, a pile needs ventilation.
This is provided through a passive aeration base.  Some use
brush, stalks, screen on boards, rocks, wood chips, flat
aeration pipe, other mechanism to let air infiltrate at the
base from outside.  The air will rise up due to the convection,
chimney effect, of warm air rising. With wood chips added, the
pile will self aerate with an aeration grate without turning.
Poking the pile from the top down to the base with a piece of
rebar or 1/4" rod every 6" will break up mats and provide extra
air channels.

The pile will begin active composting within 48 hours and cook
by itself. You can help the process by mixing at least once
after a week, sort of like stirring the coals, adding moisture
as necessary.  When it is not frozen outside, I make a compost
batch every 2 weeks, often using half cooked compost from two
weeks previously to mix with the fresh grass clippings.
Personally, I bag my grass because I like making and using
compost, but letting the clippings lie is a fine way to avoid
the effort of active composting.

Follow these steps toward batch composting and you will see the
pile heat and cook, giving off the steam of life as it
decomposes.  I think everyone should experience the pleasure of
having a compost pile cook well at least *once* in their lives.

Two last tips, *underwatering* is the largest single cause of
slow composting.  Piles in *standing* water is the number one
cause of odors.

Have fun!

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
Granite Connection 612-259-0801
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * May 19th - What's all this fuss about endangered feces?


DF>Problem: I have a "by the book" compost heap that is not
generating heat.

Sounds like you should compost that book Dave. (g)

DF>Contents: Lawn clippings, kitchen scraps, wood chips from my
shop(possible problem since they contain redwood, aromatic
cedar, and fiberboard, which contains formaldehyde) and plant
food (Miracle Grow).

You need some old compost as an inoculant first off.  Secondly,
tell us what proportions of each.  My guess is that you are
heavy in the wood chips, of which I do not recommend more than
10% unless composting heavy muck like sewage sludge or wet
chicken manure.  Why did you add the chemical fertilizer and
how much?  Don't worry about the compounds in the wood products.

DF>I keep it wet and cover it with black plastic. The frame is
a box (3` x 3`) made by stacking cinder blocks.  It is in the
north side of the house. I turn it daily with a fork.

Turning daily is never recommended.  After the initial mix, I
don't turn my piles at home at all.  In commercial operations,
I turn maybe three times in three weeks, twice in the first ten
days.  Turning lets out the heat. I assume that the two
dimensions also mean that the box is 3' deep too, for a total
of one cubic yard.  Wood chips add structure, but little
available carbon since it is still locked up in the wood fiber.
Adding wood chips to a compost pile is like giving a thirsty
child an eight pound block of ice.

Why did you cover it with black plastic?  That is like throwing
a wet cloth on a fire, halting ventilation.  Covering a pile
also keeps moisture from coming in.  I recommend plastic sides
to keep too much air from coming in from the sides where it
dries the pile and cools it.  Air should come in from the base,
like a kettle barbecue or a fireplace grate.  It should then
rise out the top, with the chimney effect.  Keeping the pile
covered halts the natural ventilation.

DF>Each time I add the lawn clippings it heats up a bit, but it
is short lived.

Yep.  The pile is suffocating, and probably lacking nitrogen
>from  more green stuff.

Mr. Compost~~~
---
 * May 8th - I'm writing a book.  I've got the page numbers
done.


Subject: Is this a compost pile? #

Papa Pilgrim writes:

JK>Or What?  I have a pit in the far corner of my backyard.
   (great stories deleted) All in all, what I am doing seems to
be right and is certainly too much fun.  But--is it compost or
just rotted stuff?

Yo bro!

Your pile is a decomposing pile of rotting stuff, not a true
composting pile.  True compost is made in batches where the
organic matter heats up, feeds abundant organisms that like the
hot environment, then they cool down.

But most people call any old dark organic stuff "compost".  I
saw a commercial for the Troy Built chipper that claimed that a
man can put brush in one end and "compost" comes out the
other!  Many of my clients in my composting consulting business
bought large tub grinders thinking that they "made compost".
When they start through the learning curve about making piles,
adding moisture, keeping it turned, they gradually come to
appreciate true compost.

But many people get upset when I tell them that they do not
have true compost, so I maybe have to think of a new word that
means *only* organic matter made from hot, active piles.

But there is no *better or worse* as far as the plants are
concerned.  Nature does not make piles, she makes thin layers.
God does not teach bears and other animals to use pitch forks,
carry water, and turn piles.  Nature is simple, doing her thing
in layers, a bit each year.  The worms do the dirty work.

Humans seem to *need* to make piles.  Once we do, we start
composting.  When we are done, we put nature's life back to the
soil in layers.

I say do what works for you.  Let it grow.  We all should be
fruitful!

Mr Compost~~~

 * May 23rd - Let me see.... Now how does that twit filter work?


Subject: Sawdust in compost

Michael asks an excellent question:

M>What advice can anyone give in using sawdust (oak and birch
 >primarily) in composting. Can sawdust be the "brown" and grass
 >the "green" effectively or do I still need to add larger wood
 >chips for areation purposes?

The distinction between carbon as bulking material for aeration
and carbon as food was largely lost in the early 1970s when many
sludge composting sites failed due to foul odors.  Wood chips
are not "available" carbon whereas sawdust is.  Sawdust tends to
compact, however, and too much can "smother" a composting pile.

Too little or too much of a good thing can be a problem.
Composting is largely a process of finding a balance of various
ingredients.  I read something about "fuzzy logic" where
numerous variables in cooking, brewing, and composting can be
managed via computer programs, something akin to master chefs,
brewmasters, or composting gurus.

I know that it took me many years and trials and errors before
I became confident in what and how much of various materials to
add.  A computer program will rarely tell you *why* it is
recommending a particular mix.

Back to your question, sawdust varies as to its age and moisture
content, but adding around 20% by volume is a lot.  I add about
10% wood chips, usually older compost "overs" screened out from
previous batches.  I add anywhere from 10% to 50% old compost
as an inoculant, less if the compost is mature, more if it is
fresh.  Most piles are deficient in Nitrogen, not carbon.

M>Finally, although I do keep sawdust generated from plywood
 >separate from that generated from hardwood, is it OK to use
 >plywood sawdust in the compost pile?

I wish I could give a pat answer to this question like I can
paper products, where I say use them all you please.  But not
all plywoods are made the same, and I have seen some disturbing
levels of formaldehyde which have me a bit wary at the moment
about particle and plywood boards.

There are so many other sawdust products which are not under
question so I suggest that you follow my general rule, which is
"when in doubt, keep it out."  These sawdusts may be perfectly
fine, and I would use them in a mixed waste compost, but in my
own garden?  Probably not.  When I have more conclusive data
like I have on the safety of paper, I will vary my position
accordingly.

Mr Compost~~~

 * May 24th - Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


Subject: Composting grass

Waldek writes:
WT>Has anyone had a good experience with composting grass
clippings?
  >When I put it in my compost pile it turns into a sticky mess
which takes ages to decompose. I wonder if there is something
the grass could be mixed with to help the breakdown process or
should I join my neighbours in the weekly routine of hauling
bags of the stuff to the curb? Help, help, I'm drowning in hay!

I have composted literally hundreds of thousands of tons of
grass clippings, and bag my grass at home too.  I believe that
composting clippings and applying compost to the lawn is better
than letting the clippings lie. (although mulching the
clippings is better than landfilling any day!)

My recipe is the same for home and commercial alike.  I have
two active batches going and one curing pile.  Each week, I
stockpile the clippings in a holding bin.  The next week, I add
the current week's clippings with last week's along with some
old compost (10% up to 50%) which is coarse with old wood chips.

These materials are layered OUTSIDE the active bin, watered
layer by layer.  THEN they are forked into the active bin,
mixing thoroughly, watering dry areas.  My active bin has an
aeration mat at the base allowing air to infiltrate from the
base.  Once the bin is full, since I make *batches* of compost,
I "poke" the pile from the top to the base with a steel rod
every six inches to help it breathe.

Two weeks later, I take half of the older pile and put it into
the curing pile with half going into the new batch as the
compost inoculant.  Once the material in the curing pile is
dark and crumbly, I screen it and use the oversize material as
a bulking material.  Occasionally I add wood chips to help keep
the pile loose.  I never turn the pile, but splitting it in
half to make old and new is a kind of turning.  The piles are
always sweet smelling.

Have fun!

Mr Compost~~~
---
 * May 23rd - Please let me know if you did not receive this.


Don asks,

D>I would have to agree with the low yield from table scraps,
vegetable peelings, coffee/tea wastes.

I must have missed the first part of the post.  Are you talking
about low volume (total amount of compost) or the low nitrogen
value of compost in general, or compost from these ingredients?

Let me try to answer all three questions.  The volume of
finished compost is typically 1/3 of the original volume, more
if there is free air space in the original mass.  Brush shreds
down to about one tenth the original mass, for example.  Mass
reduction is another matter.  Net dry weight loss is typically
one third.  This is actual nitrogen and carbon conversion to
ammonia, heat, and CO2.  Most weight loss is from moisture
reduction from 80% moisture original matter such as wet grass
clippings or fresh garden scraps down to 40% moisture compost.

As far as fertilizer values, I have yet to make a true compost
that is over 2% nitrogen.  Sure, I can have unstable compost
which is higher, but a cured compost will not be over 2% due to
the inherent biological restraints of the carbon to nitrogen
equation which is essential for proper decomposition.  Higher
carbon ratios will result in lower net nitrogen values.  Higher
nitrogen in the original feedstock will result in the release
of air borne ammonia and other nitrogen compounds and water
borne nitrates and nitrites.

Compost N values are stable so the can automatically be doubled
when compared to chemical nitrogen values, of which 50% or more
is lost in the first 24 hours of application.  Compost N values
also have an accumulated fertility quotient, of which 60% is
available the first year, 20% the second, 10% the third, 5% the
fourth, and so forth.  Chemical N has no accumulated value.

As far as the low volume of incoming table scraps as compared
to the net demand of they typical yard, I can state with
certainty that even if you bag and compost all of your yard
trimmings, leaves, and table scraps, your organic matter demand
for the yard is still greater.  I recommend 1/4" of compost as
a top dressing PLUS letting the clippings lie in order to keep
a lawn organically sustainable.  If you are trying to increase
the lawn's humus content, that requires an additional 1/4 inch
to make the soil richer.

One quarter inch of compost is one cubic yard spread over 1232
square feet.  The typical lawn at 3,500 square feet requires
three cubic yards to be sustainable (with letting the clippings
lie) and twice that amount to build the soil up, usually
applied as a top dressing in the spring and fall.  If a person
was improving the soil *before* the sod goes in, then 32 cubic
yards spread 3" deep would be called for.

You can see why I believe that it is important to support
municipal composting, as the single homestead is hardly capable
of generating sufficient compost to keep up.

As far as recommending good small composters, I recommend any
of the small, plastic, enclosed bins such as the Earth Machine
or Green Genie.  I recommend round ones over square ones as
square bins have cool corners.  Table scrap bins should be
covered to inhibit rodents and should not have too many
openings on the side.  I do not recommend open air designs for
passive, table scrap bins as they let in too much air, dry out,
and let in vermin.

Pay no attention to the supposed door underneath to take
compost out.  They are hard to use and compost does not "flow"
so well.  Use instead bins which act like "jello molds" which
can be lifted off when full and the composting process started
new in a different spot.  The old pile keeps its shape and will
cure just fine in the open air.  Remember to use some old
compost mixed in with the fresh table scraps.  This inoculates
it with active bacterial cultures and helps cover it from flies
and vermin.

For the best home composter, I recommend indoor redworm boxes.
Check out Mary Appelhof's book "Worms Eat My Garbage" for tips
for the budding vermiculturist.

Mr Compost~~~
 * April 9th - Man, that lightning sounds clo#A#v!&^#v?##vNO
CARRIER


Heather writes:

HB>My husband and I have been composting for over a year in a
bin made from pallets (it is a cube about 3-4 feet on a side).
We want to compost mainly so we don't have to throw away our
vegetable scraps.

For table scraps and vegetables, I recommend smaller enclosed
bins.  Large open air bins such as you describe are best suited
for batch, not continuous flow composting.  Your type of bin
dries out too quickly, is hard to inoculate with old compost,
has corners that stay cool, and is generally unwieldy for small
amounts of matter.

  We generate about a large stock pot worth of vegetable
  >scraps a week or maybe a little more.  We want to be able to
add the vegetable scraps to the heap without much trouble, but
we have had trouble with a bad smell and flies unless we cover
the vegetables completely with dirt (even leaves didn't work).

Your loading rate exceeds the microbial capability to decompose
the material.  You need to begin active composting or throw the
scraps into the landfill.  Flies are a sign that something is
wrong.  Passive composting for the loading rate (amount of
stinky stuff) you have just doesn't cut it.

This is a lot of
  >trouble - either we have to add a lot of dirt or we have to
dig around in the semi-composted mass to try to get the
vegetables all covered up.  Surely there is an easier way.

There is no "easy way" to compost putrescible matter.  Think of
an "easy way" to bake bread.  The easy way is to send the
material to a centralized composting site where they practice
active composting.  Then purchase the finished compost from
them.  Like you buy bread from a baker.

I have seen a lot of
  >information on composting but I haven't found a solution to
our dilemma.  I would appreciate any advice.

Check out my previous notes on active composting. It really
isn't all that difficult once you get the hang of it.  I don't
turn my piles once they are properly made, mixed, and situated
to self-aerate from the base.  I let redworms do the curing.

Mr Compost~~~

* May 22nd - Composters have heaps of fun.


Subject: Mold in Compost

Connie writes:
CC>I have a considerable amount of powdery white mold or mildew
  >in my compost pile: not just on the surface, but layered dwon
  >quite a ways. Does that mean the pile is too wet, dry,
   lacking in something or other?

It is a sign that everything is going well.  No worries!

Mr Compost~~~
 * May 22nd - Buy high, sell low, or something like that


David C writes regarding using grass clippings:

DC>A more immediate concern is the use of commercial herbicides
on lawns.Many of these herbicides will do extreme damage to
garden plants.I no longer compost or mulch with grass clippings
unless I am confident they are from herbicide-free lawns.

Your concern about uncomposted grass clippings with herbicides
has some merit, although most of the damage that
over-the-counter lawn chemicals can do is past within a few
days after spraying.

But as far as concern about using grass clippings in the
compost pile, your concern has been shown by numerous tests to
be unfounded.  The composting process, even a passive pile, is,
in and of itself, a *treatment* for most common herbicides.  By
the time the compost is dark and crumbly, the herbicides are
not only not a problem, they are virtually undetectable.

This is not true, however, for agricultural herbicides, some
pesticides, and many commercial chemicals used for spraying
trees, especially fungicides.

But most of these chemicals are not going to be uptaken by
plants, or incorporated into the plant itself.  Few organic
certification processes regulate the source of the organic
matter for composting unless there is a clear pathway of
ingestion of chemicals into the food chain.

If you start restricting materials for composting because they
were produced outside of organic methods, your available
feedstocks will become fewer and fewer.  I believe that the
benefits of organic matter in the soil far outweigh any real or
presumed biohazard from residential residual biocides in
municipal yard trimmings.

If you want *real* environmental concerns to address, try
arsenic in treated lumber, salts from road de-icing, motor oil
>from  crankcases, household batteries in solid waste, lead in
wine bottle wrappers, mercury in electric shoes, runoff of lawn
fertilizers, nitrates in drinking water, rural burn barrels,
on-site dumping, unlined landfills, agricultural nutrient
runoff, incinerator emissions, and 1001 other documented
environmental concerns.

I get tired of people bashing compost and sewage sludges over
perceptual biohazards such as lawn chemicals in grass clippings
and inks in newsprint.  It is difficult enough to permit and
operate composting facilities when people we environmentally
concerned composters would think would be our allies, the
organic gardeners, turn out to be some of our biggest opponents.

---
 * June 21st - The Universe is over. We can all go home now.


Subject: cold composting

Mike writes:  MN>Hi: Being aware of your wisdom from following
your posts to rec.gardens, I imagine you might be able to
provide me with some help regarding info on `cold composting'.

Well, my propaganda proceeds me or my paid supporters need a
raise.  But thanks for the kind words anyway.  (g)

I saw and pursued a reference to a recent Audubon
  >Magazine article on an interesting gentleman who got his
county in an
  >uproar by bringing in huge amounts of wood waste to his
land. He carried
  >out what was referred to as `cold composting' to speed the
breakdown of
  >the woody material (without any shredding or grinding) by
fungal action.
  >Besides keeping the material moist, are there other tricks?

My understanding of the story was that the amounts were not
quite so "huge", like great tire stockpiles ready to be hit by
lightning, but were fairly normative mulch layers.  The "huge"
terminology might really more aptly be called "out of the
ordinary".  Huge, to me, implies thirty foot high stockpiles
such as one might find at a sawmill.  Even then, people are
hardly in an uproar over these "huge" piles. The concern it
seems, is the fact that the material is deemed to be "waste"
and therefore subject to the NIMBY or NIMTOF (not in my term of
office) syndromes.

  > My personal interest in this is not so grand as this
character's;
  >I've just got whole lot of branch wood and prunings that I
am slowly
  >making a dent in with a 7 hp Mac chipper/shredder. I mean a
whole lot--
  >a pile 40 feet long by 12 feet wide by 5 feet tall. It's
daunting to park
  >the chipper next to it and wonder how many hundreds of hours
it will take
  >to reduce it all to mulch.

Ah yes Grasshopper, Master Po said to Quai Chang Kane, when this
stockpile of brush is reduced to humus, then it is time for you
to leave.

The first point is that nature does not compost; nature
mulches.  We do not see piles of organic matter in nature,
aside from a few notable exceptions of mound building reptiles,
nesting birds, rhinos in dung etc.

Nature deposits organic matter down in thin layers where it is
"cold" composted, if ambient temperatures can be called
"cold".  Years ago, it was called "sheet" composting, but one
rarely sees such a term anymore.

But the fact of the matter is that it is the mesophiles,
organisms which function from 40F to 120F that are the true
decomposers.  The thermophiles, those operating over 120F up to
the pasteurization temperature of 147F, are lazy sons of guns
who thrive on the heat of their cooler brothers, but do little
to aid the decomposition process themselves.

When a carbon compound is broken biologically, one mole of CO2
and one mole of heat is released. In layers, this heat is
dissipated through convection.  In piles, this heat is retained
due to the self-insulating properties of the composting mass.
It seems that the best temperatures for decomposing carbon,
which wood mulch represents, are in the 110F-120F range.  Much
of this carbon is bound by cellulose which is highly resistant
to decay.  The best means of attacking cellulose, aside from
hiring termites, is to enlist the aid of fungi.

This is what termites actually do in their gut, and is what the
gentleman referenced in the Audubon report is also doing.  I
would suggest adding around 10% old compost to the wood mulch to
assist the inoculation process so that the decomposition can
proceed in earnest.  Keeping it moist as you note is also
essential.

The real question is whether or not the organic matter is being
processed for a beneficial use or if it is being "disposed on
land".  If the person is simply stockpiling in order to garner
"waste tipping fees" with no plan for the ultimate beneficial
use of the mulch or resultant decomposed organic matter, then I
would challenge the plan, just as I would stockpiling tires.

The greater crime is sending organic matter to the landfill
where it serves no beneficial use at all.  Even worse, it
decomposes into explosive methane, merges with toxic leachate,
shrinks the landfill causing cracking in the clay cap, and
benefits no soils at all.  So even a farmer making an extra
buck spreading wood mulch is better than the landfill
alternative.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
Granite Connection 612-259-0801
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * June 22nd - The dinosaurs quit while they were ahead.

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 259-0801
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU Tue Nov 29 19:38:56 EST 1994
Article: 48605 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU!mem7c
From: mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael E. Matthews)
Subject: Using Compost FAQ (long)
Message-ID: <Czzy2K.K4F@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: uva
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 21:23:08 GMT
Lines: 516



The following is a collection of composting advice from Jim
McNelly, aka Mr. Compost. Long-time readers of rec. gardens
will know him well.  It is a compilation of some of his replies
to various questions from this group. It contains the
essentials of composting. If anyone has other of his posts
saved, I would sure like to recieve them.

Michael Matthews in central VA


***************************

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Composting 101
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372

Denys is about to buy soil instead of compost :-(

DC>I am planning on hiring a landscaper to install lawn on my
5,600 sq foot yard. The thickness of the loam makes significant
difference in cost. Some landscaper told me I need 6 inches'
loam, while another said I only need 3. Someone even said the
quality of lawn has little to do with the thickness of the
loam. I am really confused. How do you think ?

For the beginning lawn or garden, there is no substitute for
tilling in 3" of compost 9" deep. I have been in the organic
fertilizer business since 1975 and have helped thousands of
yards. They all have lusher yards and lawns with a healthy soil
system. Once the lawn is planted, it is very difficult to go
back and add compost later. Most homes had the topsoil scraped
off and sold, leaving subsoil with a token layer of black dirt.

Most topsoil sold is low in organic matter and is worthless for
soil building. A rich application of compost will pay for itself
in a few years in water savings and increased property value.
All else is secondary. If you have a lawn that you are starting
to reclaim and don't want to start all over, then applying 1/2"
of compost and reseeding in the spring for the next ten years is
a way of building up the lawn gradually over time. Remember to
leave the clippings to lie. Organic matter is the only way to
build up a soil.

Mr Compost~~~
Jim~ McNelly
Granite Connection 612-259-0801
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * May 22nd - Nitrate:  Lower than the day rate.


>>My girlfriend told me that the sticks and twigs poking out of
the gound had been pulled in by worms.I laughed of course but
last night we crouched down in the garden and sure enough worms
were grabbing stuff and trying to pull it down their
holes!>They were yanking on the dead tulip leaves, the cosmos
and whatever they could get their mouths on!
  
  >>Why?

Nightcrawlers, lumbricus terrestris, live in permanent burrows
in the soil which they excavate from childhood.  They can go as
deep as sixteen feet and typically have around seven openings
on the surface.  When it is moist, dark, and cool, they rise to
the surface, keeping their tail in the burrow, and forage for
scraps of organic matter.  This material they tow back into the
burrow where it is stored in "root cellars" for eating at a
later date.

The mass of organic scraps in the underground chambers are
tended carefully as the worm excretes enzyme rich "coleomic
fluids" that cause the matter to be digested over time.  This
is why worms are called "exodigestive" organisms as contrasted
with mammals that are "endodigestive".  When the mass of
organics is properly composted, full of protozoa and other
earthworm delicacies, the worm finally eats it.

As such, earthworms do not "eat" soil except to excavate.  Nor
do they "eat" organic matter, unless it has been fully
decomposed in their underground chambers.  Without a burrow
network, the nightcrawler has no habitat or a means to prepare
their food.  This is why I do not recommend adding soil worms
to compost piles, as they must have a burrow network underneath
in order to be of any use.  Redworms, or manure worms can be
added to compost piles past the cooking phase.  They do not have
permanent burrows and must eat with other worms en masse~,
relying on their fellows to pre-digest for them just as they
pre-digest for others.

Redworms fare poorly in mineral soils just as nightcrawlers
fare poorly in compost piles.  The best way to increase worm
populations is to add mulch!  The worms will mix it with the
soil and effect its decomposition. A healthy virgin prairie or
deciduous forest soil may have up to 1,000 pounds of worms per
acre, compared with about 5 pounds of all other large animals
combined.  Depleted soils that are overmuch tilled and eroded
may have fewer than 100 worms per acre.

So be glad your worms are eating, for soon there will be young
worms hoping for more food to be found on the surface.

In my estimation, all successful gardening and farming can be be
narrowed down to one key concept...... Feed Earthworms!

Mr Compost~~~
---
 * June 13th - Old musicians never die, they just decompose.


Forrest,

It is the lousy clay soil that killed your grass to begin
with.  Tilling in the old sod is a noble organic gesture, but
will not solve your fundamental problem, which is the lack of
organic matter in the soil.

You need to till in 3" of compost 9" deep before replanting.
All else is treating the symptoms, not the cause.

My first organic soil business was in the Denver area and I
prepared hundreds of lawns this way.  I will guarantee, that
even after over ten years have passed, that these lawns are
still green, lush, and drought resistant.  You could see the
difference the very first year when they watered less and still
the grass stayed green during the summer.

Face it.  Your topsoil was stolen by the contractor.  The
topsoil that was there was poor to begin with anyway.  Build a
new soil from scratch.  Call E&A fertilizer, Arts, Colorado
Mushroom, or A1 Compost out of Greely. There are plenty of
organic sales companies in your area.  Don't get talked into
the "sheep and peat" mix.  Go for the pure compost.

Mr Compost~~~
* April 9th - Recycle! Today's Garbage is tomorrow's America.


Subject: Re: Soil denseness
                    ----------------------------------------
S. responds further>>>

SM>Thanks for your advice!

SM> I hope your yard can withstand the raising of the soil
level, which will be a net of around three inches when all is
said and done.

SM>Well, that _is_ problematic, actually.  The soil level has
already risen over the years to the point that it is roughly
even with the basement window sills....  And of course it is
not a good idea to dig this out, because you want the land to
slope away from the foundation.

In the years when I was an organic landscaper, I was amazed at
the number of homes that had poor drainage!  The lousy grading
plans of instant housing builders is criminal in my opinion.  I
think that a builder should be liable for lousy drainage for at
least twenty years.  They should also be required to post a
bond for remediating lousy drainage.

Homes should be built on elevated platforms and water should
not drain through the neighbor's yard.  One friend of mine has
a garage floor that is at the same elevation as the curb.
There is no drainage whatsoever and his basement floods every
time it rains.  I had to install a gravel sump and french drain
to help solve his problem.

SM> Just spread the soil/leaf mix over the entire area to be
amended and water thoroughly.

SM>No forking at all?

That's right.  Let the worms do the work of mixing.

SM>   It is important to keep it *very moist* thereafter,

SM>Yes, I plan to put in some sort of irrigation system.  What
do you recommend?  Rubber soaker hose?  Tyvek soaker hose?  Drip
irrigation?

Regular surface irrigation that waters evenly from the top, not
a sub or drip system.  Your goal is to water the soil, not just
the plants.

SM> ..It will take over a year, but the worms will eventually
increase in population proportional to the new food level....

SM>Is it worthwhile to buy worms?  If so, what kind and from
where?

No.  Native soil worms like nightcrawlers live in permanent
burrows which they excavate from youth.  They live in these
burrows all their lives, if they leave such as after a severe
downpour, they are homeless and usually die.  It is too
difficult for an adult worm to excavate a new burrow network
once they have left.  Although the thick mulch layer can give
them a transition zone to live in while they excavate a new
tunnel network, adding worms is largely a waste of money.

I assume that you already have a native worm population.  As
such, they will immediately begin reproducing to catch up with
the increased food level.  Let them multiply on their own.

If you do add worms, you might add some redworms which are not
native soil worms.  They do not have permanent burrows and will
live in the moist surface mulch layer.  They compete for food
with the nightcrawlers, however, which is the opposite of your
goal.  The redworms will not survive a solid freeze nor will
they burrow or live in a mineral soil.

Mr Compost~~~
Jim~ McNelly
Granite Connection 612-259-0801
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * June 5th - Start your own revelation and cut out the middle
man


Subject: Soil denseness

Donald bemoans the eternal clay:  DLH>My garden soil is dense
clay (apparently) and I can't get it to loosen up. I have put
composted stuff in to try to break it up, but it doesn't work.

DLH>Does anyone have any suggestions?

Sure Donald,

It took nature 500 years to make one inch of topsoil.  Even
adding 3" of compost and tilling it in 9" deep is only the
start of creating an organic soil that is a suitable habitat to
soil organisms.

If you really want to get the soil enriched, hire a backhoe and
dig out eighteen inches.  Mix 1 part compost, well aged and
fully decomposed as that is the most concentrated, with two or
three parts old soil.

Replace and you have an instant soil.  At roughly 6" of
compost, that equates to around one cubic yard per 54 square
feet.  I would bet that your compost application, if it was
even compost, was fairly light and you are giving up too easily.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
Granite Connection 612-259-0801
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * June 1st - Composters have heaps of fun.

Marc asks an excellent question:

MR>I am confused about peat moss not being a good source of
plant food.
  >It is dead vegetation so why no food value? Why is it not
the same as composted vegetation?

Hi Marc,

It is not so much that peat has *no* food value, just that it
has very lttle.  The nitrogen level in compost, for example
ranges from .8% up to 2%.  Uncomposted manures and other high N
products can N levels around 1% for horse manure through 3% for
dairy manure up to 8% for human manure.

The N level in peat moss is typically below .1%, less than
1/20th of a well made compost.  The P and K values are not so
much lower than compost, but these minerals are typically low
in organic sources from plants anyway.

Peat is accumulated from a single source moss, typically
sphagnum, reed-sedge, or hypnum which are mostly fiber, low in
nutrients.  Depending on where and how it was mined, it may
have mineral contents from 80% (mostly soil) to 10% (true
moss). It takes thousands of years for peat to accumulate and
when the mosses die, they fall into the soil to decompose very
slowly.  Since mosses grow in wetlands, the decomposition is
anaerobic, and anaerobes are notoriously poor at attacking
carbon like the aerobes are.  What little N is there is used
within a few decades to support the meager anaerobe population,
after which time the moss just sits there, concentrating.

When humans come in and mine the peat, the degree of
mineralization is dependent on where in the bog, which can
often be up to 40 feet deep, the peat was removed.  The top few
feet is mostly living moss, the next layer is the peat we are
used to purchasing, and the lower layers are more of a
texture-less muck, high in mineral content, not unlike a black
topsoil.  Of course sphagnum behaves differently from the other
mosses and each bog is unique.

When the peat is mined, it is then used in various soil mixes
or as a landscaping amendment.  It is then exposed to N from
the other soil it is blended with and the aerobic decomposition
process begins.  This actually starts the peat to compost in a
manner of speaking, although it is actually a poor source of
carbon for composting since it is in a physical structure that
is resistant to microbial attack due to the cell structure of
the moss.

As an organic matter substrate for soil amending, particularly
for helping a soil drain or hold water, it is equal to compost
or manures, perhaps better in some respects. As a food source
for a healthy soil ecosystem, it is rather inert and low in
value.  Compost is a true bacteria food and immediately
stimulates active beneficial soil cultures which in turn
produce pheromes and other beneficial byproducts not measured
by NPK or humus analysis.

I treat peat like an organic mineral, an inert buffer with low
value other than its physical structure.  As an
environmentalist, I oppose the wanton mining of wetlands and
the indifference of highway designers and farmers in draining
peatlands.  Over 90% of the reed-sedge peat resources in the 48
states are lost or severely damaged, particularly in the
mountain states.  Most uses of peat would be better served by
recycled products such as bark and compost.  I only use peat
for certain planter mixes when I can find no substitute.

 MR>I read that it will slowly disappear in the soil over time.
What happens to it? Does it make the soil more acid?

Peat, like all organic matter, oxidizes in the soil over time
leaving various humus compounds.  The chemistry is basically
one mole of CO2 and one mole of heat is produced by bacterial
action (composting) or chemical oxidation.  Its acidification
properties depend on the source and initial pH level of the
peat.  Some sphagnum peat is in the high 4 range, some sedges
are neutral or even alkaline.  There is no way to know the acid
properties of a particular peat without a pH test.  The
acidification effect is also lost over time, depending on the
ambient pH level and other soil conditions.

MR>Gardening books are not clear on this.

They are not clear on most issues related to the use of organic
matter in any of its forms.  They tend to be chemically focused
with the notion that all soil is inert media, a necessary evil,
which is used to hold roots in order to feed the plant with
chemicals.  Hydroponic gardening with rock wool and chemical
solutions is the ultimate example of this narrow view of the
humusphere and its relationship with plant growth.  The carbon
respiration cycle is rarely taught in schools, whereas the
cycle of H2O from surface water to clouds is universally taught.

The carbon cycle goes from atmospheric CO2 to plants to humus
and back to CO2.

Hope this helps.

Mr Compost~~~
 * May 8th - Let's see what this one does... &%$/()"@# NO
CARRIER


The question came up:  E I bought some Milorganite to put on my
lawn (6-2-0).  Somewhere in the past I have read that
milorganite contains traces of heavy metals. Is there any truth
to this?

To which Eric replied:

>On the bag (lower back-right corner, I think) it says that it
should not be used for consumption as it may contain heavy
metals.

To which the mysterious Mr Compost~~~ chimes in:

Not all sludges are created equal, and what might be true for
one wastewater treatment facility might not be true for another.
But as far as Milorganite goes, my understanding is that years
ago, Milwaukee let their industrial sewers blend with their
residential, and there were occasional moderate levels of
cadmium and other heavy metals of concern.

Milwaukee modified their entire sewerage system during the past
ten years and now produces Milorganite from a relatively clean
source.  This upgrade cost tens of millions of dollars and was
designed to ensure a consistent, and safe sludge based product
for residential use.

As far as heavy metals go, they are found everywhere in various
concentrations.  They are in leaves, background soil, peat,
manures and the food we eat.  The number one source of heavy
metal contamination in the environment is cigarette smoking,
which contains high levels of cadmium.  Another source is lead
>from  outlawed lead based solder in copper pipes. Still another
is zinc from multivitamins.

The question about heavy metals is based on the parts per
million (concentration) and the pounds per acre
(accumulation).  These two limiting factors are determined by
detecting, according to the EPA rules governing the beneficial
use of sewage sludge, the "most affected individual".  This
might mean a child eating pounds of the sludge and taking in
lead, or it might mean a farmer whose crop is inhibited by a
zinc/iron imbalance.  Or it might mean a two pack a day smoker
who eats twenty pounds of lettuce from their sludge amended
garden.

These concentrations and extreme cases are the basis for
determining "safe" levels in the soil as far as plant growth,
pollution, and human health are concerned.  I can state without
reservation that the current levels of heavy metals in
Milorganite are nothing to be concerned with, even if you use
the product every year for hundreds of years.  I would use the
product (if it were not so expensive) in my garden without a
second thought.

The notices about heavy metals and the restrictions posted are
for liability protection to the sewerage district and are
posted by lawyers, not scientists. They are designed to
encourage the use of the product in lawns, which is where the
retail money is anyway.


Mr Compost~~~

 * April 9th - Coincide. What you are supposed to do when it
rains.
Darin McGrew comments:

M>For those of you who grow your own seedlings in soil blocks,
what soil mixture do you use?  When we bought our soil blocker,
we also bought a soil block mix from the same company (so we
could start using soil blocks quickly).  However, now I'd like
to mix my own soil block mix,and I'm curious what works best
for others.

M>The mix that we purchased was made of refined perlite, reed
sedge peat, sharp sand, dolomitic lime, and beneficial bacteria.

I don't prefer reed sedge peat.  For one, it is strip mined out
of fragile wetlands and varies widely in quality.  Sphagnum is
mined in a more renewable manner from vast expanses of bogs in
Canada.  Hypnumn peat is my favorite, but it is hard to find.

Sharp sand is a misnomer, usually referring to #8 masonry sand.
Occasionally it means true silica sand, which costs up to ten
times more.

I add limestone, usually as 38% CACO3 only after an accurate pH
test and then according to clear formulas to increase the pH up
to the desired level.  I shoot for 6.5 pH in my potting mixes.

Beneficial bacteria?  I hope they aren't talking about packaged
"inoculants".  They don't hurt, but I am not convinced they
help, either.  To me, "add bacteria" means add a well made
compost.

M>Here are some recipes that I've seen in books:

M> 1 part peat moss
 > 1 part compost, leaf mold, soil, commercial potting soil
 > 1 part sharp sand, vermiculite, perlite

M> 1 part compost, leaf mold
 > 1 part sharp sand, vermiculite, perlite

M> 1 part compost, leaf mold
 > 1 part commercial potting soil
 > 1 part sharp sand, vermiculite, perlite

M> 1 part compost, leaf mold
 > 1 part commercial potting soil

M> 1 part compost, leaf mold
 > 2 parts commercial potting soil
 > 1 part composted manure

M>At this point, I'm leaning towards equal parts of peat moss,
compost, and vermiculite, but I haven't tried it yet.  What
works for you?

I *love* using leaf mould (I prefer the British spelling), and
*never* use any of the commercial potting soils, unless I know
*exactly* what is in it.  As a mixer and packager of potting
soils for twenty years, I have been to many of these
"commercial" facilities and some of them throw in whatever they
happen to have available at the moment.  If you like what goes
into hot dogs and non dairy creamer, you will *love* some of
these so called potting soils.

In *any* planter mix, there is no substitute for at least 20%
earthworm castings, but not more than 33%.  Not only to the
worms fully cure the compost, helping to prevent damping off
and root rot, they add growth hormones that are guaranteed to
help the plant grow like crazy, 20% to 200% over conventional
compost.

Here is my secret universal soil mix formula.

5 parts hypnum peat
2 parts decomposed bark (pine or hardwood usually)
4 parts worm castings
1 part sand either silica or #8 masonry
2 parts coarse compost (preferably leaf mould; mushroom is ok)
2 parts funny white things (usually vermiculite)
CACO3 only as needed
Add a dusting of diatomite & seaweed to taste for
micronutrients.

Screen at 1/2"

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
ReSourceNet and GardenNet 612-654-8372, 656-0678 v.32bis
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * April 9th - Please let me know if you did not receive this.


From pwight@rahul.net Tue Nov 29 19:39:31 EST 1994
Article: 48627 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!barrnet.net!rahul.net!a2i!pwight.a2i!pwight
From: "Philip F. Wight" <pwight@rahul.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Hydrophonic gardening
Date: 29 Nov 1994 11:29:59 GMT
Organization: a2i network
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <3bf3bn$ab3@hustle.rahul.net>
References: <Pine.3.89.9411281506.A27845-0100000@ozarks>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bolero.rahul.net
NNTP-Posting-User: pwight
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Wilma - there are hydroponic stores in most major and minor American 
cities.  These stores have many publications available which are a 
great help. There is one magazine, published quarterly, I think, in 
Seattle, that is especially highly regarded.  Due to the late hour 
and feeble brain I have momentarily forgotten the name, but it's not 
hard to find. Back issues are usually for sale in hydroponic stores.

There is an excellent manufacturer of hydroponic equipment named 
Hydroform.  They are located in San Rafael, CA.

If you don't have a store nearby, consult your local library - they 
probably have some books and magazines availible.  Also, hopefully 
someone else who possesses a brain might see this posting and fill 
in the details. :-)

Good luck with your hydroponic growing.  It's great fun and very 
rewarding.

Cheers,
Phil
-------------
Wilma J. Kinder (wkinder@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us) wrote: : 	
: Does anyone know of good sources of information on hydrophonic gardening, 
: an approch to growing produce without soil?  I've heard the plants are 
: irrigated with nutrients in a climate controlled environment, and are less 
: likely to develop problems with insects, soil borne fungus.

: I'd be interrested in written books as well as on-line Internet sources.


: Wilma Kinder   <wkinder@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us>





-- 
Philip F. Wight <pwight@rahul.net>


From fletcher@prairienet.org Tue Nov 29 19:42:00 EST 1994
Article: 48621 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW sites?
Date: 29 Nov 1994 09:39:33 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3bessl$jo1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
References: <polsons-1711941123540001@165.227.10.97> <3am1da$h2l@coyote.rain.org> <lizr.22.00997408@ozemail.com.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Try out The Garden Gate for lots of good stuff.  (It's located on a busy 
freenet system, so try to visit outside the hours of 3pm-midnight CST).

Also check the article 'Internet Resources for Gardeners' in my column The 
Garden Spider's Web in the WWW publication The Virtual Mirror.

<A HREF="http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/garden/94/gs941127.htm">
	The Virtual Mirror:  The Garden Spider's Web</A>

Enjoy!

--
Karen Fletcher                                   fletcher@prairienet.org
=================The Garden Gate on Prairienet==========================
Via the World Wide Web: http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm


From fletcher@prairienet.org Tue Nov 29 19:42:14 EST 1994
Article: 48637 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses,rec.gardens.orchids
Subject: FYI: 'Internet Resources for Gardeners' - WWW article
Date: 29 Nov 1994 14:09:48 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <3bfcnc$b30@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:48637 rec.gardens.roses:2238 rec.gardens.orchids:1340

The Garden Spider's Web will be a regular online column for the World Wide
Web publication _The Virtual Mirror_. 

The Garden Spider's Web first column, 'Internet Resources for Gardeners', is
full of interesting and useful links for gardeners and covers: 

	Virtual Garden Tours	
	Horticulture Information	
	A Guide to BC
	Books, Magazines, Catalogs, etc.
	Newsgroups
	Keeping Up	

Although The Garden Spider's Web is best visited with a WWW browser 
with graphics capabilities (Netscape, Mosaic, etc.) there is still plenty 
to explore if all you have is a text-based browser like lynx.

So drop by for some quality online time and enjoy!

<A HREF="http://mirror.wwa.com/mirror/index.html">The Virtual Mirror</A>

Karen Fletcher                                   fletcher@prairienet.org
=================The Garden Gate on Prairienet==========================
Via the World Wide Web: http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm
========================================================================
  Prairienet is a busy freenet, so please try to visit outside our peak
  hours of 3pm-12am CST.  Be sure to drop me a line when you come visit!


From bob.batson@sound.com Sun Dec  4 20:22:36 EST 1994
Article: 48719 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!iat.holonet.net!sound!bob.batson
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Phone # of Southern Expos
From: bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson)
Message-ID: <6b.6929.2616@sound.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 19:14:00 -0600
Organization: Sound Advice, Inc. 816-436-1492
Lines: 27

In a message dated 11-28-94, L. Larrabee Strow said to All:

> Message-ID: <3be2io$78@umbc7.umbc.edu>

>Could someone give me the phone number and/or address of the seed
>supplier Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.  They are located in Va.  I
>want to make a quick order for garlic bulbs for winter planting and
>have misplaced their catalog.

        SOUTHERN EXPOSURE SEED EXCHANGE
        P.O. Box 170
        Earlysville, VA 22936

STAFF ASSISTED PHONE ORDERS: Call (804) 973-4703, January through April,
Monday through Friday 1:00 to 3:00 pm (Eastern Time).

FAX ORDERS: +1 (804) 973-4703, January through April, 10:00 am to 3 pm
(Eastern Time). From May through December, fax hours are 24 hours per
day.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson                              L 39 12 14 N  94 33 16 W
bob.batson@sound.com                    USDA Zone 5
bob@interstate.net
---
 þ MR/2 2.11 #243 þ Windows:  From the people who brought you EDLIN!


From tne@cais.com Sun Dec  4 20:22:39 EST 1994
Article: 48689 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.cais.com!news
From: tne@cais.com (tne)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: How do I start a community garden...?
Date: 30 Nov 1994 01:09:36 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3bgjcg$7q3@news.cais.com>
References: <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: manning.cais.com
X-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0.4@manning.cais.com
X-Authenticated: tne on POP host cais.com

In article <3b6dig$mf1@garlic.com>
g-man@garlic.com (g-man@garlic.com) writes:

>  and is there a book that someone highly recommends
> that explains the details of community gardens?


There's an article in the November edition of The New Environmentalist
that touches on many of these issues.  There's also some contact
information.

On WWW try http://manning.cais.com/ and on gopher, just
manning.cais.com

Good luck with your efforts.


From csalmanson@delphi.com Sun Dec  4 20:23:53 EST 1994
Article: 48691 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: ettings <csalmanson@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening Book For New England Area?
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 94 20:57:26 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <5k6XlZe.csalmanson@delphi.com>
References: <3aookb$3et@coyote.rain.org> <3b3ljo$6rg@decaxp.harvard.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com
X-To: Charles Ruberto <cruberto@fas.harvard.edu>

I'm a newbie, so please forgive any errors.  Lewis and Nancy Hill have
written numerous gardening books, including *Cold Climate Gardening*,
another on perennials, another called, I think, *Fruits and Berries for the Home
Garden* all put out by Storey Communications' Garden Way Publishing, in
Pownal, VT.  They live and have gardened fanatically for more than
50 years in Northern Vermont, and write in a very entertaining and informative
style.  I know that these books can also be purchased at the Brooklyn
Botanical Garden.  I hope you can read this and that it's of some
help! --Carol


From rgw@progress.COM Sun Dec  4 20:24:30 EST 1994
Article: 48795 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!blanket.mitre.org!pscgate.progress.com!progress.progress.com!rgw
From: rgw@progress.COM (Guy Washburn)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening Book For New England Area?
Date: 1 Dec 1994 03:39:28 GMT
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3bjghg$6n5@progress.progress.com>
References: <3aookb$3et@coyote.rain.org> <CzMpAA.FnF@sybase.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: marion.progress.com


In article <3aookb$3et@coyote.rain.org>, jennings@rain.org writes:
> I'm located in SoCalif.  A friend -- also located here -- is looking for 
> a Xmas gift for her children, who are JUST BEGINNING to garden.  THEY are 
> located outside of Boston, so gardening books for our SoCalif. climate 
> wouldn't work for them!  
> Any recommendations would be appreciated.  NEEDED:  A good, all-round, 
> basic gardening book for the Massachusetts/New England area!  Please post 
> here, OR e-mail to:	jennings@rain.org
> Jeri Collari

I highly recommend: The Harrowsmith Northern Gardener, by Jennifer Bennett 
(Camden House, 1982, ISBN 0-920656-22-6).  This book went out of print and
was reprinted a few years ago.  It has everything a beginning vegetable 
gardener needs to know.  Good for all cold-weather regions up into Canada.
Includes instructions for each type of vegetable, commonly-found insects
(good and bad), diseases...

A great companion book is The Healthy Garden Handbook: An Illustrated
Guide to Combating Insects, Garden Pests, and Plant Diseases. By the
Editors of Mother Earth News. (Simon & Schuster/Fireside. 1989. ISBN
0-671-65788-7).  This book is terrific for all regions -- photos and
detailed descriptions of pests, helpful insects, and diseases, with
biological (i.e., non-toxic) solutions to the problem.

Hope this helps!

Laura Reiner from the cyberdesk of Guy Washburn


From rsfee@scripps.edu Sun Dec  4 20:26:17 EST 1994
Article: 48740 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!scripps.edu!usenet
From: rsfee@scripps.edu (Richard S. Fee)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Warning: Gardening Puns
Date: 30 Nov 1994 19:39:15 GMT
Organization: The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3bikd3$6c1@riscsm.scripps.edu>
Reply-To: rsfee@scripps.edu
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I saw a movie the other day about a missing apple tree.
It was called "Absense of Malus"

I apologize for my strange "Quercus"

Regards
Richard Fee




From hilda@elf.com Sun Dec  4 20:28:16 EST 1994
Article: 48675 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!satisfied.elf.com!hilda
From: hilda@elf.com (Hilda Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Warning: Gardening Puns
Date: 30 Nov 1994 20:37:15 GMT
Organization: Elf Communications
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3binpr$pku@satisfied.elf.com>
References: <3bikd3$6c1@riscsm.scripps.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: asylum.sf.ca.us

rsfee@scripps.edu (Richard S. Fee) writes:

>I saw a movie the other day about a missing apple tree.
>It was called "Absense of Malus"

>I apologize for my strange "Quercus"

>Regards
>Richard Fee

Richard, unless you turn over a new leaf the entire newsgroup will
tire of your seedy puns and root you out.  Sure, your bark is
worse than your bite, but you're really out on a limb (and could
even be called a fruit!) and pretty soon someone is going to
tell you where to stick it, bud.



From russe@u.washington.edu Sun Dec  4 20:29:58 EST 1994
Article: 48786 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!homer10.u.washington.edu!russe
From: Karen Russell <russe@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Xeriscaping Book Recommendations?
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 15:29:35 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91b.941203152404.23185B-100000@homer10.u.washington.edu>
References: <jbuckley-3011942152450001@mac93.btg.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer10.u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <jbuckley-3011942152450001@mac93.btg.com> 


_Shade and Color with Water-Conserving Plants_, James Walters and Balbir 
Backhaus, published by Timber Press.  $39.95.

I was really tempted to buy this book even though I live in the beautiful 
Pacific Northwest.  One of the writers lives in the Phoenix area, and the 
"233 color photos" look like they were taken there.  

Karen


From ml330025@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au Sun Dec  4 20:40:21 EST 1994
Article: 48751 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!dingo.cc.uq.oz.au!ml330025
From: ml330025@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au (Cameron Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Guarana
Date: 1 Dec 1994 13:02:12 GMT
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3bkhgk$at@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dingo.cc.uq.oz.au
Summary: looking for Paullinia Cupana seeds.
Keywords: seeds guarana
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV)

Does anyone know where I can obtain seeds for  Paullinia Cupana? it is 
reputedly the raw material for the Guarana drink, native to the Amazon 
basin, details of a supplier of the seeds or any information would be 
welcome.

Thank you in advance
Cameron Brown.


From rob.king@nfe.com Sun Dec  4 20:41:33 EST 1994
Article: 48767 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: GARLIC; was: Phone # of Southern Exposure Seed Exchange
Date: 1 Dec 1994 09:14:20 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 17
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9412010729275029@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

 strow@umbc.edu (L. Larrabee Strow) wrote:

S>Could someone give me the phone number and/or address of the seed supplier
 >Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.  They are located in Va.  I want to make
 >a quick order for garlic bulbs for winter planting and have misplaced their
 >catalog.

I'm not familiar w/above company... but if it's GARLIC you quest, try
Filaree farm, Rt.2,box 162, Okanogan,WA 98840-9774... or leave message
at 509-422-6940.  Ron Engeland <author of "Growing Great Garlic> runs
the farm, and garlic stuff is all they sell... over 350 varieties..!!.
Good people.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From srtobin@mmm.com Sun Dec  4 20:43:46 EST 1994
Article: 48822 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!dawn.mmm.com!news
From: Steve Tobin <srtobin@mmm.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: ?What is the Best Grow Light Bulb?
Date: 1 Dec 1994 19:38:49 GMT
Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN  55144-1000 US
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3bl8o9$q2e@dawn.mmm.com>
References: <3b26s8$kep@newsbf01.news.aol.com> <3b3ks4$t0k@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tobinpc.diac.mmm.com

garyvg@aol.com (Gary VG) wrote:
>
> In article <3b26s8$kep@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, nartker@aol.com (Nartker)
> writes:
> 
> >My florescent grow light bulbs need to be replaced.  Has anyone evaluated
> >what is on the market today?
> 
> If you are going to stay with flourescents, one warm white and one cool
> white tube mixed per fixture should work well.
> 
> Gary VanGelder    garyvg@aol.com
> 

Organic Gardening magazine has an article on this topic this month. They have spectral charts and everything.


Steve



From rarnold@teleport.com Sun Dec  4 20:44:53 EST 1994
Article: 48761 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!news.teleport.com!usenet
From: "Ralph D. Arnold" <rarnold@teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Mushrooms for tree stumps?
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 94 01:22:34 PDT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <21179.rarnold@teleport.com>
Reply-To: <rarnold@teleport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx1-09.teleport.com
X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_17A
X-POPMail-Charset: English
To: wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu

On 1 Dec 94 15:05:21 EST, 
wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu  <wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu> wrote:

>At the time everyone was discussing what to do with tree stumps, I read 
>along without really paying attention, because we didn't have any
>tree stumps to do anything with.  Last week our ancient apple tree
>blew over--so now we have a stump.
>
>My favorite suggestion was to grow mushrooms on the stump.. Trouble
>is, I haven't a clue as to where to buy mushrooms, or what kinds would
>work in this situation.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Carol
>
Check out my FTP site or gopherspace.  Or subscribe to FREE Internet 
mailing list on mushroom cultivation called FUNGUS = send an email to
fungus-request@teleport.com with message: 
Subscribe fungus <you@your.domain>
Hope this helps!

Ralph D. Arnold rarnold@teleport.com | "ON-LINE ACCESS" gopherspace offers
P.O. Box 889, Oregon City, OR 97045  | "FUNGI-BY-EMAIL"=growing mushrooms 
gopher://gopher.teleport.com/11/users/rarnold |will email files if needed
anonymous ftp by ftp.teleport.com in directory pub\users\rarnold\mushroom


From skeets@telerama.lm.com Sun Dec  4 20:45:49 EST 1994
Article: 48803 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!hudson.lm.com!epicycle.lm.com!not-for-mail
From: skeets@telerama.lm.com (skeets)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: #COUNTRY IRC
Date: 1 Dec 1994 16:59:08 -0500
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <3blgvc$3qt@epicycle.lm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: epicycle.lm.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Hey folks join channel #country on irc and chat with us...
-- 
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
SKEETS                         The Meaning to Life: Comfortable Shoes
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


From ljgreene@aol.com Sun Dec  4 20:48:04 EST 1994
Article: 48716 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: ljgreene@aol.com (LJGreene)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: 2 questions: Marionberry
Date: 1 Dec 1994 18:50:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 6
Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3blng1$4oc@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
References: <vthompson.4.2E8F6259@commerce.otago.ac.nz>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com

In article <vthompson.4.2E8F6259@commerce.otago.ac.nz>,
vthompson@commerce.otago.ac.nz writes:

Yes there really is such a thing as a Marionberry.  The canes can be
purchased in Woodinville, Washington from Molbak's, 206-483-5000.  It is a
very hardy vine and good for freezing, jaming and pies!


From falori@cc.usu.edu Sun Dec  4 20:49:11 EST 1994
Article: 48798 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!falori
From: falori@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: herbs
Message-ID: <1994Dec1.224931.34297@cc.usu.edu>
Date: 1 Dec 94 22:49:31 MDT
References: <56mDwc5w165w@richters.com> <3bbrur$mps@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
Organization: Utah State University
Lines: 40

In article <3bbrur$mps@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, seales@aol.com (Seales) writes:
> In article <56mDwc5w165w@richters.com>, conrad@richters.com (Conrad
> Richter) writes:
> 
>>If I had to pick herbs that are intersection of 
>>   1) productive herbs
>>   2) medicinal herbs
>>   3) culinary herbs
>>   4) ornamental herbs 
> 
>>(i.e. herbs with all four characteristics) then one that some that come 
>>to mind are bergamot (bee balm), lavender, Apothecary's rose, black 
>>hollyhock, calendula (pot marigold), but I am sure others will come up 
>>with more candidates. 

> Also horehound, fennel, spearmint (etc), saffron crocus, and garlic.

I'm just a lurker here and this is likely to offend some purists, but
when I moved into my house a couple years ago I stuck some clumps of
herbs donated from friends into the ground, added a couple 69 cent
grocery store 2" plants, and scattered seeds from one of those cans
of mixed herbs.  Then I waited to see what would happen (this is 
incredibly passive gardening, but it works for a dual-career family
with lazy children).  What has happened is that the agressive hardy
types have taken over.  Some are perrenial and some are annuals
that evidently reseed themselves.  My favorites are : tarragon (because
I love cooking with it and it's tall and bright), oregano (because
different varieties are peacefully coexisting and some have nice
flowers), sage (because of its silvery green leaves with the purple
flowers), dill (because I like the umbrella shapes).  My thyme is
healthy but is being overpowered by the big guys.  Calendula seeds
>from  another friend produced a few plants last year but cheerfully
invaded another section of the garden this year and bloomed through
the late fall (in this cold northern Utah mountain climate).  

I'd love to grow fennel but haven't seen any around here.  Is it hardy?
Any hints?

falori@cc.usu.edu



From jamesm@dialogic.com Sun Dec  4 20:50:45 EST 1994
Article: 48732 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!bounce-back
From: jamesm@dialogic.com (Mark James)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria,rec.pets.herp
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.ponds
Supersedes: <rec.ponds-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 2 Dec 1994 12:14:08 -0500
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Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:5199 news.groups:101111 rec.gardens:48732 rec.aquaria:45925 sci.aquaria:9660 alt.aquaria:27360 rec.pets.herp:24800

                      2nd CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
 
                     Unmoderated group rec.ponds
 
Newsgroups line:
rec.ponds		Pond issues:  plants, fish, design, maintenance.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 12 December 1994.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only, contact Mark James <jamesm@dialogic.com>.  For 
questions about the proposed group, contact Janette Wallis 
<janette-wallis@uokhsc.edu>.


CHARTER
-------

Rec.ponds is an unmoderated newsgroup to provide a forum for the
discussion of all aspects of ponds or water gardens.   

The rec.ponds newsgroup will appeal to a wide range of people 
involved in both the recreational and professional aspects of establishing
and maintaining a pond or water garden.  We'll have novices to water
gardening as well as experts, the hobbyist as well as genuine botanists
and ichthyologists.  Even students wishing to find help with science
projects may decide to read rec.ponds.  All of these people will be 
welcomed to share ideas, ask questions, or simply lurk and learn.

Examples of discussion topics might include:

* Building a pond/water garden:  
Details will be shared regarding best materials to use, procedures for
making the pond secure, and appropriate placement of the pond.  Or, in
the case of a naturally occurring pond, what can be done to make it more
"user friendly"?  We'll have tips on building a waterfall, installing a
fountain, whether to use a filter, and how to install a biological
filter.  Also, we may give information on lighting and how to safely run
electrical lines to the pool area. 

* Establishing a perfect ecosystem:
Where else can you create your own ecosystem and watch it evolve?  
We'll have discussions on water quality; ratio of plant life to animal life;
plant/animal interactions, etc.

* Plant life:
We'll discuss which plants are best suited for our water gardens.  Which
plants need a lot of sunlight, which will survive in the pond over
winter, which need to be taken indoors, etc?    The rec.ponds 
newsgroup will serve as a forum for discussing plant diseases and cures, 
when to divide, and how to propagate our plants.   We'll also share 
information on establishing an area for bog plants.

* Fish:
We'll share information on fish behavior, biology, and health.   For
example: Which fish are compatible?  What's the maximum number of fish
for the size of a pond?   What conditions should exist in the pond so
the fish will breed?  How do we protect the fry from danger and see that
they grow into healthy adults?   Which diseases are likely to affect
pond fish?   How much should we feed the fish, and how often?

* Amphibians and reptiles:
We'll discuss the biology, health, and behavior of frogs, newts,
salamanders, turtles, etc. that either come naturally to the pond or are
placed there by us.  Which ones get along?

* Other environmental concerns:
In rec.ponds, we'll discuss how to make certain the pond is
not a safety hazard for small children or pets.   How can we attract 
butterflies?  Should we attract snails?   Also, how do we guard against 
unwanted visitors (raccoons, cats, snakes, herons) that may prey on the 
fish and/or plants in a pond?    What about the use of fertilizers or
insecticides near the pond?   Rec.ponds can be a place to 
exchange information on (non-political) conservation issues.

* Miscellaneous:  
Students can use rec.ponds as a place for learning more about plant and
animal life in and around water.  We may exchange information regarding
suppliers of equipment, literature regarding water garden techniques,
location of other electronic resources, etc.  (However, rec.ponds is
*not* intended as a forum for commercial transactions with respect to
sale of plants, fish, or pond equipment.)

* In the future, rec.ponds may develop FAQ's that address each of
the above topics.


RATIONALE
---------

Because most water gardeners have both plant and animal life in their
pond, discussions on development and care of ponds has previously been
split between rec.gardens, rec.aquaria, and rec.pets.herp.   There is no
newsgroup dedicated only to the interests of water gardeners.


HOW TO VOTE
-----------

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to:

      jamesm@dialogic.com

Just replying by E-MAIL to this message should work, assuming you are
reading this using standard newsreader software.  Your mail message 
should contain one and only one of the following statements:

      I vote YES on rec.ponds
      I vote NO on rec.ponds
      I ABSTAIN on rec.ponds
      I CANCEL my vote on rec.ponds

You may add a comment, or use other wording, but only a definite, 
unconditional, unambiguous statement for or against the creation of 
rec.ponds will count as a vote.

Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve
only to cancel any previous vote.  Abstentions are noted in the final
vote list, whereas CANCEL removes your vote from that list entirely.
(This is the only difference between the two.)

If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
vote will count.

All votes will be acknowledged by E-mail.  If you don't receive an
acknowledgment within a few days of your vote, vote again.  It is your
responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.

Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person,
no more than one vote per account.  If you attempt multiple votes or 
other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.


RESULT
------

The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including
how each person voted.  Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret 
ballot.

There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote
list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed.  The 
requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes,
and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES. 


BOUNCED VOTE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
----------------------------

Vote acknowledgment messages to the following address have bounced.
(The vote has been counted.)

sw48a@pop.nih.gov (Steven Warthan) 

-- 
Mark James  <jamesm@dialogic.com>    
Dialogic Corporation, 3307 Northland Dr  | "We must believe in free will.
Suite 270, Austin TX 78731 U.S.A.        |  We have no choice."
+1 512 459 7766 ext 110                  |  -- I. B. Singer


From jamesm@dialogic.com Sun Dec  4 20:53:39 EST 1994
Article: 48732 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!bounce-back
From: jamesm@dialogic.com (Mark James)
Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.gardens,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria,alt.aquaria,rec.pets.herp
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.ponds
Supersedes: <rec.ponds-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 2 Dec 1994 12:14:08 -0500
Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
Lines: 159
Sender: tale@uunet.uu.net
Approved: tale@uunet.uu.net
Expires: 13 Dec 1994 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <rec.ponds-CFV2@uunet.uu.net>
References: <rec.ponds-CFV1@uunet.uu.net>
Reply-To: jamesm@dialogic.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu news.announce.newgroups:5199 news.groups:101111 rec.gardens:48732 rec.aquaria:45925 sci.aquaria:9660 alt.aquaria:27360 rec.pets.herp:24800

                      2nd CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
 
                     Unmoderated group rec.ponds
 
Newsgroups line:
rec.ponds		Pond issues:  plants, fish, design, maintenance.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 12 December 1994.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  For voting
questions only, contact Mark James <jamesm@dialogic.com>.  For 
questions about the proposed group, contact Janette Wallis 
<janette-wallis@uokhsc.edu>.


CHARTER
-------

Rec.ponds is an unmoderated newsgroup to provide a forum for the
discussion of all aspects of ponds or water gardens.   

The rec.ponds newsgroup will appeal to a wide range of people 
involved in both the recreational and professional aspects of establishing
and maintaining a pond or water garden.  We'll have novices to water
gardening as well as experts, the hobbyist as well as genuine botanists
and ichthyologists.  Even students wishing to find help with science
projects may decide to read rec.ponds.  All of these people will be 
welcomed to share ideas, ask questions, or simply lurk and learn.

Examples of discussion topics might include:

* Building a pond/water garden:  
Details will be shared regarding best materials to use, procedures for
making the pond secure, and appropriate placement of the pond.  Or, in
the case of a naturally occurring pond, what can be done to make it more
"user friendly"?  We'll have tips on building a waterfall, installing a
fountain, whether to use a filter, and how to install a biological
filter.  Also, we may give information on lighting and how to safely run
electrical lines to the pool area. 

* Establishing a perfect ecosystem:
Where else can you create your own ecosystem and watch it evolve?  
We'll have discussions on water quality; ratio of plant life to animal life;
plant/animal interactions, etc.

* Plant life:
We'll discuss which plants are best suited for our water gardens.  Which
plants need a lot of sunlight, which will survive in the pond over
winter, which need to be taken indoors, etc?    The rec.ponds 
newsgroup will serve as a forum for discussing plant diseases and cures, 
when to divide, and how to propagate our plants.   We'll also share 
information on establishing an area for bog plants.

* Fish:
We'll share information on fish behavior, biology, and health.   For
example: Which fish are compatible?  What's the maximum number of fish
for the size of a pond?   What conditions should exist in the pond so
the fish will breed?  How do we protect the fry from danger and see that
they grow into healthy adults?   Which diseases are likely to affect
pond fish?   How much should we feed the fish, and how often?

* Amphibians and reptiles:
We'll discuss the biology, health, and behavior of frogs, newts,
salamanders, turtles, etc. that either come naturally to the pond or are
placed there by us.  Which ones get along?

* Other environmental concerns:
In rec.ponds, we'll discuss how to make certain the pond is
not a safety hazard for small children or pets.   How can we attract 
butterflies?  Should we attract snails?   Also, how do we guard against 
unwanted visitors (raccoons, cats, snakes, herons) that may prey on the 
fish and/or plants in a pond?    What about the use of fertilizers or
insecticides near the pond?   Rec.ponds can be a place to 
exchange information on (non-political) conservation issues.

* Miscellaneous:  
Students can use rec.ponds as a place for learning more about plant and
animal life in and around water.  We may exchange information regarding
suppliers of equipment, literature regarding water garden techniques,
location of other electronic resources, etc.  (However, rec.ponds is
*not* intended as a forum for commercial transactions with respect to
sale of plants, fish, or pond equipment.)

* In the future, rec.ponds may develop FAQ's that address each of
the above topics.


RATIONALE
---------

Because most water gardeners have both plant and animal life in their
pond, discussions on development and care of ponds has previously been
split between rec.gardens, rec.aquaria, and rec.pets.herp.   There is no
newsgroup dedicated only to the interests of water gardeners.


HOW TO VOTE
-----------

You should send E-MAIL (posts to a group are invalid) to:

      jamesm@dialogic.com

Just replying by E-MAIL to this message should work, assuming you are
reading this using standard newsreader software.  Your mail message 
should contain one and only one of the following statements:

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You may add a comment, or use other wording, but only a definite, 
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Neither ABSTAIN nor CANCEL messages are counted as votes; they serve
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(This is the only difference between the two.)

If you later change your mind you may vote again; only your last valid
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All votes will be acknowledged by E-mail.  If you don't receive an
acknowledgment within a few days of your vote, vote again.  It is your
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Standard Guidelines for voting apply: no more than one vote per person,
no more than one vote per account.  If you attempt multiple votes or 
other vote fraud, all your votes may be canceled and your name published.


RESULT
------

The complete vote list will be posted with the vote result, including
how each person voted.  Note that Usenet votes are not done by secret 
ballot.

There will then be a five-day period during which the published vote
list may be corrected and any irregularities addressed.  The 
requirements for group creation are 100 more YES votes than NO votes,
and 2/3 of all counted votes being YES. 


BOUNCED VOTE ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
----------------------------

Vote acknowledgment messages to the following address have bounced.
(The vote has been counted.)

sw48a@pop.nih.gov (Steven Warthan) 

-- 
Mark James  <jamesm@dialogic.com>    
Dialogic Corporation, 3307 Northland Dr  | "We must believe in free will.
Suite 270, Austin TX 78731 U.S.A.        |  We have no choice."
+1 512 459 7766 ext 110                  |  -- I. B. Singer


From jcobban@bnr.ca Sun Dec  4 20:53:48 EST 1994
Article: 48738 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!corpgate!brtph500.bnr.ca!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!jcobban
From: jcobban@bnr.ca (Jim Cobban)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Texocote, what is it?
Date: 2 Dec 1994 21:00:29 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Canada
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3bo1td$c3s@bcarh8ab.bnr.ca>
Reply-To: jcobban@bnr.ca (Jim Cobban)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcars153.bnr.ca

A while ago when I was vacationing in Mexico I had a dessert which contained a
number of recognizeable fruits plus one which I had never seen before.  It
was intermediate in size between a grape and a plum, with a smooth yellow
skin.  If it were not for the stalk and the 6 seeds I would have thought it
was a pastry of some sort, because it had the flavour and texture of a donut.
According to the waiter it is called Texocote (Tehokotay), grows on a bush,
and is ripe in November/December.  I cannot find anything like it described
in any standard reference work.  Does anyone know what it is?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Cobban   |  jcobban@bnr.ca                        |  Phone: (613) 763-8013
BNR Ltd.     |  bnrgate.bnr.ca!bcars153!jcobban       |  FAX:   (613) 763-5199
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   The opinions expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily     |
|   represent the opinions of Bell-Northern Research or Northern Telecom.     |


From rarnold@teleport.com Sun Dec  4 20:53:52 EST 1994
Article: 48760 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!news.teleport.com!usenet
From: "Ralph D. Arnold" <rarnold@teleport.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: new mailing list
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 94 00:53:18 PDT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
Lines: 128
Message-ID: <19579.rarnold@teleport.com>
Reply-To: <rarnold@teleport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx1-09.teleport.com
X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_17A
X-POPMail-Charset: English

Do you enjoy eating mushrooms, especially gourmet/wild ones?  Would you
like to learn how to grow them for fun, for profit(!), or ecology 
(recycling)??  Perhaps this will interest you?


Announcing a new mailing list for fungi growers: FUNGUS

Below is the Info File generated when you subscribe.  Feel free to contact
me, if you have any other questions.

########################################################################
You can now subscribe to FUNGUS, a free Internet mailing list
dedicated to mushroom cultivation (both hobby and commercial) and related
mycology resources.

FUNGUS will be activated (begin forwarding messages) on December 16, 1994.
Feel free to forward messages now.  They will be stored up for the first 
days.  Subscribe now to be "in on it" from Day One (Dec. 16th).

Unfortunately, archived files of FUNGUS are not now available via MAJORDOMO
(email mailing system).  However, they soon will be available via anonymous
FTP - see IV. below.

QUICK INDEX OF THIS INFO MESSAGE:

I. Philosophical Statement about FUNGUS
II.  Important Non-Internet Resources for the Mushroom Grower
III. Suggestions on What to Submit to FUNGUS
IV. Other Internet Sites Where This Info Is Located
V. Various "Majordomo" Mailing List Commands
  A. How to Subscript to FUNGUS
  B. How to Unsubscribe to FUNGUS
  C. How to Send Messages/Textfiles to FUNGUS
VI. Information on the Moderator of FUNGUS
===============
I. Philosophical Statement about FUNGUS
FUNGUS has been designed as a vehicle for mushroom growers (both hobbyists
and professionals) and interested parties can have one more Internet access
point, for dissemination of information and for discussions relating to
the cultivation of edible and other fungi.  Conceiveable, there will be
a variety of commercial entities publicized and involved.  This is meant to
be a practical approach to cultivation.

II.  Important Non-Internet Resources for the Mushroom Grower
This FREE Internet tool is IN NO WAY meant to replace/supplant other
resources.  I suggest all growers utilize this partial list of resources
<please let me know of add'l resources I should include)

BOOKS:
There are many fine mushroom cultivation books.  In the opinion of the 
moderator, all growers should own "Growing Gourmet & Medicinal Mushrooms"
by Paul Stamets (c) 1993 Ten Speed Press ISBN 0-89815-608-4

MAGAZINES\NEWSLETTERS (Please tell 'em you saw it here)

Cultivated Mushroom Report, U of Toronto, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

the Mushroom Growers' Newsletter, mycoworld@aol.com, 464 Fulton St,
   Klamath Falls, OR   97601

Mushroom - the Journal, PO Box 3156, Moscow, ID  83843

Mushroom News, c/o American Mushroom Institute, 907 East Baltimore Pike,
   Kennett Square, PA   19348

Shiitake News, Forest Resource Center, Rt2 Box 156A, Lanesboro, MN  55949

ORGANIZATIONS/ASSOCIATIONS/SEMINARS
These are too numerous to include now.  Hopefully, each portion of every 
catagory will be "advertised" or announced in messages to FUNGUS

III. Suggestions on What to Submit to FUNGUS
Any and all types of information relating to mushroom cultivation, 
especially that relating to non-White Button Mushroom species.
These could include (but are not limited to):
Info on Growing Specific Species
Info on Cultivation Techniques
Indexs to Cultivation Books
Surveys of Literature
Announcements/Details on Associations & Societies with Cultivation Aspects
Announcements/Details on Seminars & Training Opportunities
Mycology Supply Companies
Internet Info Sources
Culture Collection Libraries
Equipment Details and Uses
Questions about Problems Encountered followed by (hopefully) Solutions 
       found by other growers
**please help make FUNGUS applicable and important to your needs and 
interests**please participate in the discussions

IV. Other Internet Sites Where This Info Is Located

I have setup a GOPHERSPACE where much of this info will be stored.
Access it :

VIA WWW at gopher://gopher.teleport.com/11/users/rarnold

VIA Gopher  gopher.teleport.com  :select "users"; then "on-line access";
                         "fungi-by-email"

I have also set up an anonymous FTP site containing these files. In 
addition, ARCHIVED messages/textfiles will be stored in this area.

VIA FTP at ftp.teleport.com in directory \users\rarnold\mushroom

V. Various "Majordomo" Mailing List Commands
  A. How to Subscribe to FUNGUS
Send an email message to fungus-request@teleport.com with this message:
SUBSCRIBE FUNGUS <your individual email address>
  B. How to Unsubscribe to FUNGUS
Send an email message to fungus-request@teleport.com with this message:
UNSUBSCRIBE FUNGUS <your email address>
  C. How to Send Messages/Textfiles to FUNGUS
Send the message\textfile to fungus@teleport.com.  It will be forwarded to
the moderator (rarnold@teleport.com) who will undoubtedly okay it's
publication.  The rare non-inclusive messages most likely will be 
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" messages (+see above points to do it right+) 
 and textfiles/messages dealing in illegal matters/subjects.  Discretion
is important.

VI.  Any questions/comments can be directed to the moderator, which is
Ralph D. Arnold.  He can be reached at rarnold@teleport.com.
###################################################################

Ralph D. Arnold rarnold@teleport.com | "ON-LINE ACCESS" gopherspace offers
P.O. Box 889, Oregon City, OR 97045  | "FUNGI-BY-EMAIL"=growing mushrooms 
gopher://gopher.teleport.com/11/users/rarnold |will email files if needed
anonymous ftp by ftp.teleport.com in directory pub\users\rarnold\mushroom


From jberke@lamg.com Sun Dec  4 20:54:00 EST 1994
Article: 48806 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!trib.apple.com!amd!netcomsv!lamgnet!jberke
Message-ID: <1276706814.35401@lamgnet.lamg.com>
Date: 03 Dec 1994 20:33:11 GMT
From: jberke@lamg.com (Jonathan Berke)
Organization: Los Angeles Macintosh Group BBS
Reply-To: jberke@lamg.com
Subject: Berries: Full/Partial Sun?
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Lines: 3

I am thinking of planting ollaberries against a wrought iron fence which is
partially shaded. Does anyone have an opinion whether blackberries do best in
full or partial sun?  jberke@lamg.com


From keziak@aol.com Sun Dec  4 20:54:12 EST 1994
Article: 48814 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: keziak@aol.com (Kezia K)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: maypop seeds
Date: 4 Dec 1994 12:05:16 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3bsssc$hs8@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com

Does anyone have information/experience growing the wild passionflower or
maypop from seed? We saved the seed to give to a family member, but I
cannot find specific information about propagating it.  I am aware that
some seeds need to be chilled, scarified, or otherwise handled in a
special way.

Any info, most appreciated.  Thanks

KeziaK
Northern VA


From bhaile@leo.vsla.edu Tue Dec  6 10:36:28 EST 1994
Article: 48871 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!leo.vsla.edu!bhaile
From: bhaile@leo.vsla.edu (Bess Haile)
Subject: Re: Recommend me a good book
Message-ID: <1994Dec6.145714.5926@leo.vsla.edu>
Organization: Virginia State Library
References: <3bthp2$arm@odin.community.net>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:57:14 GMT
Lines: 10


To understand soil...what it is, what it does, how to make it
better...my favorite of them all is Square Foot Gardening by 
Mel Bartholomew and Easy Care Perennials by Patricia Taylor.
After 5 years of disasterous gardens I had concluded that I had
a black thumb and had sworn off gardening forever! (And me
living on a farm!!!) The Bartholomew book was a lifesaver.  It practically
said "This is soil.  This is a seed. " Neither of these is a
landscape type of book.  Barbara Damrosch's book Theme Gardens
is a nice one for design and lots of fun to look at


From postmanj@ava.bcc.orst.edu Wed Dec  7 16:21:01 EST 1994
Article: 48861 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!engr.orst.edu!gaia.ucs.orst.edu!ava.bcc.orst.edu!postmanj
From: postmanj@ava.bcc.orst.edu (Joseph Postman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: The 'Ubileen' pear from Bulgaria - info needed
Date: 6 Dec 1994 07:23:37 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3c13hp$snr@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ava.bcc.orst.edu

    I would like some help from pomologists in Eastern Europe, or
elsewhere, who might know something about the Pear cultivar "Ubileen". 
This is a European Pear that was imported into the United States from
Bulgaria about 30 years ago, and is growing in our temperate fruit
germplasm collection in Corvallis, Oregon.  We have no information,
other than a name, to go with this cultivar.  It is an early ripening
pear, several weeks before Bartlett (or Williams), and even ripens before
Clapp Favorite or Butirra Precoce Morettini.  The fruit is especially
large for this early season, pyriform in shape, ripens to green/yellow
with a red blush on the sunny side. 

   Does anyone know the Ubileen pear?  I would like to know where and 
when it originated, the pedigree (if it is from a deliberate cross) and 
the name of the breeder, other names or synonyms, and any other 
historical information.

Please respond by email - It's hard to keep up with this very active group!

Thanks,  

 =============================================================================
       Joseph D. Postman	|	N ational	       /
      -PLANT PATHOLOGIST-	|	C lonal		     / \   Eat More
     postmanj@bcc.orst.edu	|	G ermplasm	    /   \   Fruit!
     corjp@sol.ars-grin.gov	|	R epository	    \ _ /
 =============================================================================
	USDA/Agricultural Research Service, Corvallis, Oregon, USA



From dbchc@aol.com Wed Dec  7 16:21:54 EST 1994
Article: 48937 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!paladin.american.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dbchc@aol.com (DBCHC)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: worm address
Date: 7 Dec 1994 00:00:44 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 20
Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3c3fhs$emr@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
References: <jdurkinD08oo5.7IJ@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com

In article <jdurkinD08oo5.7IJ@netcom.com>, jdurkin@netcom.com (Jim Durkin)
writes:

WORM SUPPLIERS

Avant Garden Vermicomposting Systems
PO Box 1303
Ross, CA 94957
(415) 488-1642

Rainbow Worm Farm
24700 County Road 95
Davis, CA 95616
(916) 758-9906

Cape Cod Worm Farm
30 Center Avenue
Buzzards Bay, MA 02532
(508) 759-5664



From mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU Wed Dec  7 16:35:15 EST 1994
Article: 48877 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!inxs.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU!mem7c
From: mem7c@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael E. Matthews)
Subject: Re: Making Compost FAQ (long)
Message-ID: <D09JwA.408@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: uva
References: <CzzwHC.J88@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 01:52:57 GMT
Lines: 225

The following is ADDITIONAL composting advice from Jim McNelly, 
aka Mr. Compost, which has turned up. If anyone has other of 
his posts saved, I would sure like to receive them.

Michael Matthews in central VA

              __________________________________________

Subject: Advanced Composting

TJ>I have enjoyed your messages on composting over the last
  >year or so. Thanks for livening up my day with some
  >particularly interesting questions and have, in fact, had a
  >"compost" pile since last fall. I'm using one of those black
  >plastic sheets with large holes (3" >dia?) which is formed
  >into a cylinder with no top or bottom.

I am trying out one of the "green plastic sheets" with smaller
holes.  I believe that you have a "Presto" Bin, or some
reasonable facsimile.  My guess is that it is kind of floppy,
but stable when full.

TJ>My first compost pile got hot (over 120 F), and occasionally
  >I can get it hot again after trimming a bunch of trees.  But
  >normally it is acting more like a "worm box" than a compost
  >pile.

You better not be casting aspersions upon my worm buddies.  Did
you add any redworms, they move up from the underground, or you
just making a cool composting observation?

  >The bulk of the input is from the leaves from bottlebrush
  >trees and kitchen scraps (fruit and vegetable material).

Bottle brush leaves!  I remember growing up in California, how
the hummingbirds love the flowers.  You must have quite a
collection if you get enough material to fill a composting pile.

  >I would like to create a hot pile more often, though I am
  >reasonably happy with cold decomposition.  But, I have some
  >questions.

Hot piles are a lot like baking bread.  It is nice to know how
to do it, but not necessarily something you want to do all the
time.

TJ>I have seen copies of the lists put out by various people
  >concerning the nitrogen/carbon ratio of various materials,
  >i.e. leaves, grasses, etc.  My question is, comparing a leaf
  >from a bottlebrush that I pick and which is green in color,
  >with one that dries up and turns brown and then falls to the
  >ground, or a trimming that falls to the ground and laying
  >there eventually turns brown, does the ratio change?  That
  >is, when a leaf goes from the color green to the color brown
  >does it lose nitrogen and thus change from a "green" material
  >to a "brown" material?

This is an excellent question, and has been the source of many
a debate among us professional composters, long into the
evening at composting conferences, sampling the local ale from
the microbrewery.....  But I digress.  Yes, one man's green
stuff is another man's brown.  In my and other composting gurus
attempts to "make composting simple", we refer to the "green
and brown" metaphor.  But as you point out, it does not hold up
so well under scientific or real world scrutiny.  Many greens
actually browns and vice versa.

An example is that thatch from lawns is considered "brown"
matter, and so is yellow straw.  Orange carrot peals or pulp
are "green" and black sludge is also "green".  I have composted
"brown" soy hulls that heated like the beans themselves, which
are brown but are called "green".  Many brown leaves heat like
green matter, and I have even got hot composting from bark
products.

The point is that mixing green and brown is good advice for
composting 101, for beginners.  It is mostly designed to
suggest mixing brown leaves with green grass.

The goal of "getting a pile to heat" is largely a misconception
of what is taking place in a composting pile, a belief that
heat itself is causing the reaction.  In my various commercial
operations, one common question from visitors is "where or how
do we 'add' the heat?"  Another common backyard question is
whether or not to put the pile in the sun or shade.  Since heat
is generated *by* the composting process, it is a byproduct,
not a cause.

Adding heat or any organic matter will not cause significant
decomposition.  A pile in the sun may absorb some radiant
sunlight, and this may help in the spring, winter or fall if
the pile is hovering above 40F.

Heat in and of itself is a sign of composting, not a cause.
Piles, being self insulating, hold heat.  An unaerated pile may
be hot, but that does not mean that it is active.  It might
just mean that it is well insulated so it holds what little
heat is being generated.  Along the same lines, a cool pile may
be quite active if the heat is being removed through aeration
or convection.  The best advantage of a hot pile is that it
helps kill diseases and weed seeds.  I see little advantage
over cool composing in terms of compost quality.  A hot pile
may decompose more quickly, but when was "fast" made into the
important decision criteria?

Is a fast campfire "better" than a slow one?  Is smoking meat
"better" than a fast hot grill?  For commercial operations, I
look at the heat *removed* as the measure of composting rate,
not of heat itself.  It is like the home hot water heater.  The
water heats quickly and energy is consumed.  The insulation
holds the heat at the desired high temperature.  But the actual
energy used is not indicated by the temperature of the water,
but by the gallons of hot water consumed.

So, in a very round about way, I care little anymore about
mixing green with brown in commercial operations, because I
know that some greens may behave like browns and vice versa,
and I can usually get either to compost just fine in any state,
mixed or not.  If I am looking to conserve nitrogen, then I
want to compost the green (high nitrogen) material as quickly
as possible in order to effect nitrogen stabilization before
the N is lost to the air or water, usually as ammonia.

But I have shocked many of my fellow professionals by
composting all high nitrogen materials or all brown materials,
or equally well with a mix of some sort.  Some materials may be
hard to get started, like sparklers at the fourth of July, but
again like sparklers, once you have one going, it is easier to
get the next one going.

So yes, there is a point where green stuff becomes brown, and
yes leaves and green matter lose nitrogen in stockpiling. But
nitrogen is not the most important issue in composting, nor is
heat generation.  So I say stick with what whatever works to
make dark crumbly humus soil like stuff with the amount of
space and effort *you* have available.  Don't let the raw
materials or the composting books dictate what you should or
shouldn't do.

I do know that keeping organic matter moist is critical, and
that adding a bit of old compost helps, whether hot or cold.

Fork freely and often!

Jim~ McNelly
Granite Connection 612-259-0801
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org
---
 * June 27th - Auntie Em: Hate you. Hate Kansas. Took the Dog


Subject: Blood Meal and Compost

HK> One of my compost piles is mostly dead grass, leaves, and
HK> weeds.  It was going pretty good but then after a month or
HK> so, it just lost its oomph (sp?).  

Hi Howard,

A good batch of compost is *supposed* to lose its "oomph" after
about a month or so. It is not like a campfire where the wood
oxidizes down to ash in a short time. Biological oxidation is
determined by the fate of microbes; not a chemical formula.

Raw organic matter has both volatile and non-volatile solids.
The non- volatile fraction includes ash, minerals, glass,
rocks, metals, and other non degradable components. Even a rich
organic matter source like peat might contain 10% to 20% inert
matter. Many manures may be as low as 50% organic matter,
especially if they are scraped off soils.

The composting process is considered "complete" if there has
been a 40% volatile solids reduction. When about 20% has been
reduced, it is increasingly difficult for the pile to generate
heat, since most of the "volatile" fuel has already been
oxidized. Of the organic (volatile) solids, much is in the form
of lignin and cellulose (wood). This fraction, while organic,
is not as "volatile" biologically speaking as are
carbohydrates, sugars, and proteins which decompose quickly.
These materials take longer to decompose biologically, so may
be why your pile has "slowed down".

On top of these complex interactions between microbes, fungi,
actinomycedes and organic raw materials, the byproducts of
decomposition, particularly humic compounds, are in and of
themselves slow to decompose and oxidize.  Humus, the most
stable form of organic matter in the soil, may last for years
and years without further breakdown.

So adding fresh matter like blood meal may cause a sudden burst
of decomposition activity, sort of like adding lighter fluid to
cool charcoal briquettes, but don't expect the rest of the
matter to suddenly spring into ignition and decompose.

My rule of thumb, if you truly desire active, hot compost, is
to make piles in batches, mixing and moistening thoroughly
*before* putting the stuff into a bin. Then let the pile cook
for three or so weeks, maybe with a turning or two. Hot
composting is also helped by passive aeration from the base,
rather than the sides.

For a pile that seems to have cooled prematurely, mix 50% with
fresh green material like grass clippings to get it to re-cook.
I believe that you will find this plan more effective than
dosing it with blood meal.

Mr Compost~~~
Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org

HK>Anyway, I figured that it was lacking nutrients so I
>sprinkled a half cup or more of blood meal in there.  What do
>you think?  Will it help? Oh yeah, my compost bins are of the
>poor man variety (a chickewire cylinder).  Actually, them work
>remarkably well.  They take a little longer than the wood or
>plastic boxes, but with my limited amount of plant refuse,
>they are perfect. Regards, Howard Knight

 * RM 1.3 * Eval Day 12 * When a ball dreams, it dreams of
being a frisbee

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 259-0801
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From lpindzol Wed Dec  7 23:24:04 EST 1994
Article: 48956 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!news.haverford.edu!s202.magill.haverford.edu!user
From: lpindzol (lpindzol)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Folklore of Plants
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 20:22:12 -1812
Organization: hc
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <lpindzol-061294202212@s202.magill.haverford.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.82.19.202


Do any of you plant experts have any folklore about flowers, herbs, or
plants in general which I, as a college student could use in my folklore
paper? I am specifically trying to connect the symbol of LOVE,romance, to
plants. 
			I am interested in superstitions, predictions of finding a mate. 
Anything really would be helpful.  
			Some ideas to guide you, or revive a memory include things such as;
reciting "s/he loves me, s/he loves me not", as one is pulling the petals
off of a daisy,  kissing under the mistletoe, giving a red rose for
passion, the superstision of not bringing violets into the house if they
are covered with dew because the oldest daughter will not marry.
			Thanks for your help.

	Lauren Pindzola
	lpindzol@haverford.edu


From josh@hand.timeinc.com Wed Dec  7 23:24:28 EST 1994
Article: 48960 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: Josh Hartmann <josh@hand.timeinc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: www site for houseplants?
Date: 7 Dec 1994 22:56:38 GMT
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3c5ej6$krk@alterdial.UU.NET>
References: <1994Dec3.102645@opal.tufts.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.143.112

slee@opal.tufts.edu wrote:
>
> I'm sorry.  I know its been posted several times recently (but I lost my
> electronic rolodex file--must have thrown it out) but could someone post
> the site for the Time-Life information on houseplants?  Thanks.  Steph

Yes!

<A HREF="http://www.timeinc.com/vg">The Virtual Garden</A> is
located at:

http://www.timeinc.com/vg

-Josh Hartmann
Time Life Inc.
josh@hand.timeinc.com


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Dec 11 22:01:57 EST 1994
Article: 49027 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ar367
From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Round Up,  Hurting Soil?
Message-ID: <D0GKEL.6qn@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ar367@freenet3.carleton.ca (Ken Toews)
Reply-To: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3c219r$m16@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 20:47:08 GMT
Lines: 177

In a previous posting, Thomas Mulally (ComLaw@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> I want to get rid of Bermuda grass that has taken over parts of my 
> vegetable gardem.  People have suggested Round Up.  My concern is that 
> this chemical will also kill the micro-organisms in my soil.  I have 
> spent alot of time with the composting threads and do not want to 
> destroy the work I have done.  Will Round Up kill the soil?
> 
> 
> Thanks  Tom M.


The following is from a Monsanto flyer
-Microbes break down the active ingredient of roundup in the soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>note: active ingredient<<<<<<<<
-Roundup wont leach into the soil.....because it binds tightly to
soil particles
-Roundup does not give off fumes or odours.
-Roundup works by stopping the formulation of certain amino acids
(protein building blocks) found only in plants.
>>>>>>>>>>>Roundup is still readily absorbed thru the skin, and
excreted thru the urine. If you like roundup you will say it causes
no problems on the way, if you dont like roundup this will concern
you<<<<<<<<<
-Roundup is safe to humans, pets and wildlife when used as
directed.


The following problems warrant concern when Roundup is considered
for use: 
 
 1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that Roundup is
inactivated rapidly in soil, it is more accurate to say that it is
usually absorbed to soil components.  A sandy loam treated with
glyphosate at recommended application rates (e.g., 2, 5, and 10
ug/g soil) was found to drastically reduce nitrogen fixation,
growth, and nodulation of subterranean clover/Rhizobium trifolium/
planted 120 days after glyphosate treatment. 
Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not adsorb it
readily. 
 
Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to increase during
the second year following treatment with glyphosate, indicating
that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 
 
2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective herbicide,
any desired vegetation must be completely protected from glyphosate
drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup label guide,
"...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe damage or
destruction to the crop, plants, 
or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 
 
3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 

There is no way of knowing what you are applying when you use
roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label guide
published
by Monsanto available at 1-800-225-2883, its free, page 150
Round up weed and grass killer is 99.04% Inert ingredients.

For a complete rundown on what that 99.04% of the product could be
get: The Secret Hazards of Pesticides: Inert Ingredients. It is
available for free from the New York State Department of Law.
1-518-474-5481

4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on glyphosate by
itself is inadequate since the inert ingredients are very important
to making Roundup work.  Most test results are "unpublished and
developed by Monsanto or laboratories hired by Monsanto."  
Other points are made about lack of cancer testing and links to
"human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation oft he
eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis (inflammation of
the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following exposure to
glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing human illness
in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the number of
incidents reported."  No further details on this statistic are 
given.  

 
A "Roundup Information Packet" containing a series of articles on
Roundup is available for $10.50 postpaid from NCAP; P.O. Box 1393;
Eugene OR 97440.  A file of these and additional glyphsate/Roundup
articles is maintained at NCAP; these can be copied at 10
cents/page. 
 
>From  "Roundup, Vision, POEA, and 1,4-Dioxane: Why Full Formulations
Are the Problem." Written by Mary O'Brien--a staff scientist for
NCAP.  Vol. 9, No. 4 of the Journal of Pesticide Reform. 
 
When a letter by four Japanese emergency medicine professionals
appeared in the February 6, 1988 issue of the American medical
journal, The Lancet, a Washington toxicology consultant, David
Monroe, took note.  The Japanese authors were noting that an "inert
ingredient" in the herbicide Roundup (rather than the identified
"active" ingredient, glyphosate) accounts for the 
acute toxicity they had found in patients poisoned (some fatally)
by Roundup 

(JPR 8(1):30).  Symptoms included gastrointestinal ("GI" -ed) pain
and vomiting, swelling of the lungs and pneumonia, reduction of
blood pressure, clouding of consciousness, and red blood cell
destruction. 
 
The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA),
actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added to Roundup
and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an ingredient
that will help evenly spread the active ingredient, glyphosate, on
target plants. 
 
The Japanese researchers noted that the acute lethal dose of POEA
is less than one-third (i.e., POEA is three times as toxic) that of
Roundup, and that POEA belongs to a class of surfactants that have
been reported to cause adverse GI and central nervous system
effects and damage to red blood cells. 
 
As POEA does not appear on the Roundup label (supposedly protected,
as an inert, from public disclosure under the U.S. pesticide
law...), Monroe first learned of its presence in Roundup through
the Lancet letter.  
 
Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the presence
of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products ...
manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that POEA is a
polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane might be
present as a contaminant of POEA.  
[ the article now describes the side effects of 1,4-dioxane, which
include liver and kidney damage, and cancer in laboratory animals. 
"The liver and kidney damage can occur regardless of the route of
1,4-dioxane exposure 
  (inhalation, oral ingestion, and/or skin application)."   This
section  concludes with this statement: 'The International Agency
for Research on   Cancer indicates that evidence is "sufficient" to
know that 1,4-dioxane  causes cancer in animals and the U.S EPA
regards 1,4-dioxane as a probable human carcinogen.'  
 
  Researchers in British Columbia went on to test Vision (Canada's
version of Roundup) checking for 1,4-dioxane contamination.  From
a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per million
1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the article: ] 
 
A 1982 EPA memo ... also discussed 1,4-dioxane as being present in
dichloroethyl ether.  The 1982 EPA memo ... had been prompted by
concern that 1,4-dioxane had been found in dichloroethyl ether at
0.42 percent and 0.55 percent.  Under "comments/recommendations" in
the memo, the EPA noted that 
the manufacturer of the contaminated dichloroethyl ether "reported
that its employees and customers were being notified of the
presence of 1,4-dioxane in dichloroethyl ether.  In addition, the
company reported that its current safety precautions include
'body-protective clothing and boots, eye protection, and monitoring
of air levels of dichloroethyl ether.'" 
 
Users of Roundup and Vision are not informed that the formulation
contains either POEA or 1,4-dioxane.  Roundup is widely used by
home owners wearing no particular protective clothing, and the
label merely states, "Avoid contact with eyes, skin, and clothing
because of possible (eye and skin) irritation." 
 
The presence of 1,4-dioxane in Vision (and presumably in Roundup)
is a classic example of the following: 
 
 1. Full formulations, "inert" ingredients, and contaminants, not
merely the so-called "active" ingredient, can cause cancer and
other adverse chronic effects; their exemption from testing for
chronic toxicity is indefensible.  
 2. The current classification by the EPA of POEA as a "List 3"
inert ingredient  ("inert of unknown toxicity"), subject neither to
listing on the label nor toxicological testing requirements, is
indefensible. 
  3. Estimating the toxicity of glyphosate alone is meaningless
when a full formulation (e.g., Roundup, Vision) containing POEA,
1,4-dioxane, and other unlisted ingredients and contaminants is the
mixture to which people and the environment will be exposed. 
 
What you don't know can hurt you. 
--
@-->----


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Dec 11 22:03:50 EST 1994
Article: 49027 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ar367
From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Round Up,  Hurting Soil?
Message-ID: <D0GKEL.6qn@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ar367@freenet3.carleton.ca (Ken Toews)
Reply-To: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3c219r$m16@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 20:47:08 GMT
Lines: 177

In a previous posting, Thomas Mulally (ComLaw@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> I want to get rid of Bermuda grass that has taken over parts of my 
> vegetable gardem.  People have suggested Round Up.  My concern is that 
> this chemical will also kill the micro-organisms in my soil.  I have 
> spent alot of time with the composting threads and do not want to 
> destroy the work I have done.  Will Round Up kill the soil?
> 
> 
> Thanks  Tom M.


The following is from a Monsanto flyer
-Microbes break down the active ingredient of roundup in the soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>note: active ingredient<<<<<<<<
-Roundup wont leach into the soil.....because it binds tightly to
soil particles
-Roundup does not give off fumes or odours.
-Roundup works by stopping the formulation of certain amino acids
(protein building blocks) found only in plants.
>>>>>>>>>>>Roundup is still readily absorbed thru the skin, and
excreted thru the urine. If you like roundup you will say it causes
no problems on the way, if you dont like roundup this will concern
you<<<<<<<<<
-Roundup is safe to humans, pets and wildlife when used as
directed.


The following problems warrant concern when Roundup is considered
for use: 
 
 1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that Roundup is
inactivated rapidly in soil, it is more accurate to say that it is
usually absorbed to soil components.  A sandy loam treated with
glyphosate at recommended application rates (e.g., 2, 5, and 10
ug/g soil) was found to drastically reduce nitrogen fixation,
growth, and nodulation of subterranean clover/Rhizobium trifolium/
planted 120 days after glyphosate treatment. 
Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not adsorb it
readily. 
 
Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to increase during
the second year following treatment with glyphosate, indicating
that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 
 
2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective herbicide,
any desired vegetation must be completely protected from glyphosate
drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup label guide,
"...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe damage or
destruction to the crop, plants, 
or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 
 
3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 

There is no way of knowing what you are applying when you use
roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label guide
published
by Monsanto available at 1-800-225-2883, its free, page 150
Round up weed and grass killer is 99.04% Inert ingredients.

For a complete rundown on what that 99.04% of the product could be
get: The Secret Hazards of Pesticides: Inert Ingredients. It is
available for free from the New York State Department of Law.
1-518-474-5481

4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on glyphosate by
itself is inadequate since the inert ingredients are very important
to making Roundup work.  Most test results are "unpublished and
developed by Monsanto or laboratories hired by Monsanto."  
Other points are made about lack of cancer testing and links to
"human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation oft he
eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis (inflammation of
the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following exposure to
glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing human illness
in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the number of
incidents reported."  No further details on this statistic are 
given.  

 
A "Roundup Information Packet" containing a series of articles on
Roundup is available for $10.50 postpaid from NCAP; P.O. Box 1393;
Eugene OR 97440.  A file of these and additional glyphsate/Roundup
articles is maintained at NCAP; these can be copied at 10
cents/page. 
 
>From  "Roundup, Vision, POEA, and 1,4-Dioxane: Why Full Formulations
Are the Problem." Written by Mary O'Brien--a staff scientist for
NCAP.  Vol. 9, No. 4 of the Journal of Pesticide Reform. 
 
When a letter by four Japanese emergency medicine professionals
appeared in the February 6, 1988 issue of the American medical
journal, The Lancet, a Washington toxicology consultant, David
Monroe, took note.  The Japanese authors were noting that an "inert
ingredient" in the herbicide Roundup (rather than the identified
"active" ingredient, glyphosate) accounts for the 
acute toxicity they had found in patients poisoned (some fatally)
by Roundup 

(JPR 8(1):30).  Symptoms included gastrointestinal ("GI" -ed) pain
and vomiting, swelling of the lungs and pneumonia, reduction of
blood pressure, clouding of consciousness, and red blood cell
destruction. 
 
The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA),
actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added to Roundup
and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an ingredient
that will help evenly spread the active ingredient, glyphosate, on
target plants. 
 
The Japanese researchers noted that the acute lethal dose of POEA
is less than one-third (i.e., POEA is three times as toxic) that of
Roundup, and that POEA belongs to a class of surfactants that have
been reported to cause adverse GI and central nervous system
effects and damage to red blood cells. 
 
As POEA does not appear on the Roundup label (supposedly protected,
as an inert, from public disclosure under the U.S. pesticide
law...), Monroe first learned of its presence in Roundup through
the Lancet letter.  
 
Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the presence
of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products ...
manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that POEA is a
polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane might be
present as a contaminant of POEA.  
[ the article now describes the side effects of 1,4-dioxane, which
include liver and kidney damage, and cancer in laboratory animals. 
"The liver and kidney damage can occur regardless of the route of
1,4-dioxane exposure 
  (inhalation, oral ingestion, and/or skin application)."   This
section  concludes with this statement: 'The International Agency
for Research on   Cancer indicates that evidence is "sufficient" to
know that 1,4-dioxane  causes cancer in animals and the U.S EPA
regards 1,4-dioxane as a probable human carcinogen.'  
 
  Researchers in British Columbia went on to test Vision (Canada's
version of Roundup) checking for 1,4-dioxane contamination.  From
a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per million
1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the article: ] 
 
A 1982 EPA memo ... also discussed 1,4-dioxane as being present in
dichloroethyl ether.  The 1982 EPA memo ... had been prompted by
concern that 1,4-dioxane had been found in dichloroethyl ether at
0.42 percent and 0.55 percent.  Under "comments/recommendations" in
the memo, the EPA noted that 
the manufacturer of the contaminated dichloroethyl ether "reported
that its employees and customers were being notified of the
presence of 1,4-dioxane in dichloroethyl ether.  In addition, the
company reported that its current safety precautions include
'body-protective clothing and boots, eye protection, and monitoring
of air levels of dichloroethyl ether.'" 
 
Users of Roundup and Vision are not informed that the formulation
contains either POEA or 1,4-dioxane.  Roundup is widely used by
home owners wearing no particular protective clothing, and the
label merely states, "Avoid contact with eyes, skin, and clothing
because of possible (eye and skin) irritation." 
 
The presence of 1,4-dioxane in Vision (and presumably in Roundup)
is a classic example of the following: 
 
 1. Full formulations, "inert" ingredients, and contaminants, not
merely the so-called "active" ingredient, can cause cancer and
other adverse chronic effects; their exemption from testing for
chronic toxicity is indefensible.  
 2. The current classification by the EPA of POEA as a "List 3"
inert ingredient  ("inert of unknown toxicity"), subject neither to
listing on the label nor toxicological testing requirements, is
indefensible. 
  3. Estimating the toxicity of glyphosate alone is meaningless
when a full formulation (e.g., Roundup, Vision) containing POEA,
1,4-dioxane, and other unlisted ingredients and contaminants is the
mixture to which people and the environment will be exposed. 
 
What you don't know can hurt you. 
--
@-->----


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Dec 11 22:04:34 EST 1994
Article: 49058 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!bnr.co.uk!bmdhh222.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ar367
From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Round Up,  Hurting Soil?
Message-ID: <D0K6Cu.4JM@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ar367@freenet3.carleton.ca (Ken Toews)
Reply-To: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3c8bu6$pok@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <3c219r$m16@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 19:34:04 GMT
Lines: 36

In a previous posting, January (liza@cats.ucsc.edu) writes:
>>...destroy the work I have done.  Will Round Up kill the soil?
>>
>>Thanks  Tom M.
> 
> As before mentioned, Roundup does consists of glycosate that rapidly
> breakup down.  It inhibits EPSP enzyme in the plant preventing it from
> making tryptophan and any phenolic.  The EPSP enzyme is non-existant
> in animals.  I hope this helps.
> 
> 	Jan

Very True Jan but bordering on irrelevant. What is significant
with the application of roundup and all pesticides is the
nature of not only the active ingredient but the Inert ingredient.

I would suggest that anyone who uses pesticides read
beyond the product monogram and start
with something like 

"The Secret Hazards of Pesticides: Inert Ingredients" it
is published by the New York State Department of Law.

Quite an interesting read, its free and available
from

Office of the Attorney General
The Capitol
Albany New York
12224

Phone 1-518-474-5481


--
@-->----


From ylwm0208@yvr.cyberstore.ca Sun Dec 11 22:05:44 EST 1994
Article: 49054 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!scipio.cyberstore.ca!yvr.cyberstore.ca!ylwm0208
From: Henry Ficke <ylwm0208@yvr.cyberstore.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: compost
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 17:02:37 -0800
Organization: Cyberstore Systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <BK.BW.786848561.1103527590.ylwm0208@yvr.cyberstore.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: yvr.cyberstore.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Reply:

> I am fairly new to the world of composting since I only began last summer.  
> My daughter gave me a plastic bin for Mother's Day and I have been happily 
> adding kitchen waste and yard waste and other odds and ends of organic 
> materials to it.........
> 
>                        
                       Katie

  Hi Katie;
  my name is Henry Ficke. I have a part time business called Mother Earth
  Worms, #187-2330 Butt Road, Westbank, B.C. V4T 2L3.
  Have you tried worm composting. I have my composter in the kitchen.
  My Red Wigglers are eating my kitchen scraps as I write this letter.
  Someone who might give you more info is:
  MADELINE HETU, R.R. #3, ST. PETERS, BRIDGETOWN, P.E.I C0A 2A0

  Hope this might help you out. Anyone else interested send me an E-mail

  henry.ficke@cyberstore.ca

  GOOD LUCK. 



From lionhert@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 11 22:07:13 EST 1994
Article: 49111 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: lionhert@ix.netcom.com (Richard Stanton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: solar greenhouse
Date: 11 Dec 1994 01:53:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 37
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3cdm31$enu@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3c5soq$s2i@get.hooked.net> <rcase.445.2EE9D68A@rt66.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sc3-02.ix.netcom.com

In <rcase.445.2EE9D68A@rt66.com> rcase@rt66.com (Roger Case ) writes: 

>
>In article <3c5soq$s2i@get.hooked.net> gudes@get.hooked.net (Sid Gudes) 
writes:
>>Path:
>>mack.rt66.com!rahul.net!a2i!ddsw1!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!zip
eecs.umic
>>h.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprint
link.net!i
>>ts.hooked.net!get.hooked.net!not-for-mail
>>From: gudes@get.hooked.net (Sid Gudes)
>>Newsgroups: rec.gardens
>>Subject: solar greenhouse
>>Date: 7 Dec 1994 18:58:34 -0800
>>Organization: Hooked
>>Lines: 15
>>Message-ID: <3c5soq$s2i@get.hooked.net>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: get.hooked.net
>
>
>>we want to build greenhouse addition to our passive solar home 
>>in northern New Mexico.  I'd like to attach the master bath and 
>>the greenhouse so the bath can have lush greenery and the 
>>greenhouse can have the humidity and white water from the bath. 
>> DOes anyine know whaere to get plans, pictures or any ideas on 
>>how to implement this concept??
>>"Common sense isn't."           
>
>>Lynne Gudes
>
You might try browsing "Sunset.Homeowner's Guide to Solar Heating
& Cooling"  ISBN 0-376-01524-1 and "Solar Projects for under $500
>from  Garden Way Publishing, ISBN 0-88266-363-1.

                   Hope this helps....Richard



From wojcik@pmsrs4.pms.ford.com Sun Dec 11 22:08:22 EST 1994
Article: 49113 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!fiesta.srl.ford.com!eccdb1.pms.ford.com!pmsrs4.pms.ford.com!wojcik
From: wojcik@pmsrs4.pms.ford.com (wojcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Growing Cattails from Seed
Date: 8 Dec 1994 18:06:57 GMT
Organization: ECC at Ford Motor Company, Dearborn Michigan
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3c7i01$q9i@eccdb1.pms.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pmsrs4.pms.ford.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

	I know this seems like a stupid question, what with the acres of
cattails that one finds in every marsh, but I have a variegated version of
cattail that produced two "tails" this year and I'd like to get more of them.
	I pulled one of the tails apart and all I see is fluff. If there are
seeds there, they must be extremely small. Assuming I have seed, how should
I germinate them? Just float them on water? Sow into a pot sitting in water?
Use regular potting soil?
	Any suggestions would be appreciated.

- Al Wojcik
  Ford Motor Co., Dearborn, MI



From TKSJOHN@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu Sun Dec 11 22:09:20 EST 1994
Article: 49055 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!TKSJOHN
From: TKSJOHN@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (John Pedlow)
Subject: Re: Growing Cattails from Seed
Message-ID: <D0K5sw.LvJ@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu
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References: <3c7i01$q9i@eccdb1.pms.ford.com> <misddp.250.2EE791C6@sysa.adm.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 19:02:12 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <misddp.250.2EE791C6@sysa.adm.duke.edu>
misddp@sysa.adm.duke.edu (Deborah Pearce) writes:
 
>>        I know this seems like a stupid question, what with the acres of
>>cattails that one finds in every marsh, but I have a variegated version of
>>cattail that produced two "tails" this year and I'd like to get more of them.
>>        I pulled one of the tails apart and all I see is fluff. If there are
>>seeds there, they must be extremely small. Assuming I have seed, how should
>>I germinate them? Just float them on water? Sow into a pot sitting in water?
>>Use regular potting soil?
>>        Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
i collected cattail fluff in march/april (following a buffalo, ny winter)
and spread it as thinly as possible on the surface of vermiculite, dirt
and sand in a container which was in another container of water (to keep
it constantly wet).  i then sprinkled a few grains of (dry) sand on top
in case the seed required covering.  and then i sprinkled some additional
fluff on top of that (very sparsly) -- in case the seed didn't want to
be covered.  the cottage cheese container with the seed was then placed
6" under "everyday" florescent lights (with pepper and tomato seeds/
seedlings).  i seem to recall it took about a month for grass-like shoots
to appear.  then another month for them to attain any kind of size at all.
i transplanted the entire container into the garden (where i have cattails
growing).  unfortunately this clump of seedlings died during a dry spell
(i forgot to water them).  they were s-l-o-w growing... probably would
have preferred a swampy area in which to develop.  i only did this as a
lark to learn if the fluff would germinate.  it did, so i was happy.
john pedlow   in buffalo, ny        tksjohn at ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu


From kristib@tc.fluke.COM Sun Dec 11 22:12:01 EST 1994
Article: 49086 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!caen!news.tc.cornell.edu!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!cornell!uw-beaver!fluke!kristib
From: kristib@tc.fluke.COM (Kristi Brockschmidt)
Subject: beneficial insects
Message-ID: <D0K48L.5qz@tc.fluke.COM>
Keywords: insects beneficial
Organization: Fluke Corporation, Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 18:48:15 GMT
Lines: 14

The latest organic gardening magazine had an article on
attracting beneficial insects using various flowering
plants next to or in your vegetable garden.

I was curious about what your experiences were!  What
types of combinations do you use or find helpful?  Do
you prefer perennials, annuals, or a mixture?   Do you
have plants in flower in all seasons spring/summer/fall?
What kind of layout do you like?  

I look forward to hearing out your ideas!

Kristi



From ulrike@papageno.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 11 22:12:10 EST 1994
Article: 49095 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ulrike@papageno.demon.co.uk (Ulrike Paradine)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!demon!papageno.demon.co.uk!ulrike
Subject: Nunas (Poppong Bean)
Distribution: world
Organization: Myorganisation
Reply-To: ulrike@papageno.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.6
Lines:  9
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Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 16:48:47 +0000
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

Can anyone tell me where I can obtain seeds of "Nunas", the Popping 
Bean as described in "Lost Crops of the Incas", (published by 
the National Academy Press, Washington DC, 1989).

Thanks in advance.

Ulrike Paradine - HYTHE, Kent, England.



From mnovo@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu Tue Dec 13 15:53:51 EST 1994
Article: 49136 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet2.scri.fsu.edu!mnovo
From: mnovo@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu (Michael Novar)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Catalog - Orchid Planting Supplies
Date: 8 Dec 1994 21:56:06 GMT
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3c7vdn$7vr@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.scri.fsu.edu

An Orchid planting Supply catalog is available via email. To receive
it email a request to mnovo@freenet.fsu.edu

Happy Holidays.

Mike
-- 
ORCHIDS "R" US - Specializing in custom Orchid propagation - completee
lab facility - send us your seed capsules for flasking - *Order* our
Flask Bulletin - Orchid Planting Supply Catalog -via email 
"NATIVE ORCHID" T-SHIRT great holiday gift -mnovo@freenet.fsu.edu


From pinet@aol.com Tue Dec 13 15:54:21 EST 1994
Article: 49138 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: pinet@aol.com (Pinet)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Cat feces
Date: 12 Dec 1994 11:40:14 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 6
Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3chude$9rs@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf01.news.aol.com

To whoever it was that was concerned about cat feces. (sorry, my system
crashed and lost the guy's name):

Check out the FAQ in rec.pets.cat.  It covers this area very well.




From burnley@bscr.uga.edu Tue Dec 13 15:55:03 EST 1994
Article: 49158 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!hobbes.cc.uga.edu!kurtzmac.chem.uga.edu!user
From: burnley@bscr.uga.edu (Vicki Burnley)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Worm bins
Date: 12 Dec 1994 18:34:34 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Chemistry
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <burnley-1212941502290001@kurtzmac.chem.uga.edu>
References: <1994Dec12.012725.29021@news.vanderbilt.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kurtzmac.chem.uga.edu

In article <1994Dec12.012725.29021@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
DORNSJ@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Sherman Dorn) wrote:

> Next question:  what are the necessary conditions for a good worm bin?
> I've got a large (18 gal.) plastic tote bucket that I'm thinking of
> using as a worm bin for kitchen wastes.  I've heard that the best
> way to start a worm bin is to combine some fibrous material (like
> shredded newspaper) with a nitrogen-rich material, wet it, and 
> introduce a pound of red worms.  After a few days, the worms are
> supposed to be on their way, and I can start adding ground-up or
> blended kitchen scraps, right?
> 
> Here are the questions:
> 
> 1.  How much original material should I put together for a pound of
> red worms?  This is a huge container compared to the original amount
> of worms.
> 
> 2.  How do you remove the worm casings?  I've heard of two methods:
> 
>         a.  having some sort of spigot at the bottom of the bin
>                 to draw out "worm tea"
> 
>         b.  Wait until an over-40 F day, dump the entire contents
>                 of the bin, wait for the worms to clump together,
>                 put the clump of worms back in the bin, and
>                 start over, using the non-worm contents as
>                 plant goodies.
> 
> 3.  An OG letter a long time ago mentioned drilling 1/2" holes in
> the sides of a plastic tote like mine, and adding screening on
> the inside.  Is the necessary?  If so, why?
> 
> ----------
> Sherman Dorn
> dornsj@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

Sherman,
   Dumping the entire contents seems to work well especially since your
container is not very large. You do need to drill holes in the side to
one, release excess moisture, and two to ventilate and let off heat. You
will quickly cook your worms in a sealed system. The screen on the inside
of the holes will keep out yellow jackets which will quickly make your
worm bin a very inhospitable place if you do not deter them since the
thrive on kitchen scraps also. 
   The rest of your plan sounds fine- be sure not to add any meat scraps
or the entire thing will be a rancid mess. Good luck,
                     Vicki Burnley
                     Unv of GA
                     e-mail burnley@bscr.uga.edu


From A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz Tue Dec 13 19:30:28 EST 1994
Article: 49165 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!theo!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!news.massey.ac.nz!massey.ac.nz!A.S.Chamove
From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (Arnold Chamove)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Ponds
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 14:31:21
Organization: , Massey University, Palmerston North
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <A.S.Chamove.62.2EE7B36C@massey.ac.nz>
References: <D0EFCu.3A1@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ps-pc35.massey.ac.nz
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev Final Beta #8]

 I intend to put in a few Koi and a selection 
>of goldfish etc. Comments would be welcome.


Koi are quite flighty unless in a pond where they cannot hide and with 
goldfish; then they are a joy.

 but how to transport fish by car from there is a bit of
>a worry. 

Most fish suppliers will post them to you.  They travel well in water with 
pure oxygen in a plastic bag (in a box), and can handle that for 36 hours 
anyway.  Even fry can be posted this way.  

In a car, you need to have about twice the water per volume of fish.   Keep 
the fish water cool (with ice if necessary), and a bubbler is beneficial. Most 
acquarioum stores can supply you with loan of a pump that will run off the car 
lighter.  If necessary you can transport goldfish and carp in damp moss (the 
Chinese do) for about 24 hours--just keep it real damp.
Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology Dept
Palmerston North, New Zealand
A.Chamove@Massey.ac.NZ


From bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Wed Dec 21 22:17:47 EST 1994
Article: 49226 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bx711
From: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Looking for soil testing kits
Date: 13 Dec 1994 20:14:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3ckvbj$e4h@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
References: <3c52gd$b6r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Reply-To: bx711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey L. Cook)
NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu


I wrote:

>I'm looking for a cheap source for soil testing kits.  My local garden
>center has one that will test pH, N, P and K, but it costs $18.00 and
>only has enough for ten tests.  That seems awfully high for a few ounces
>of chemicals.  (I'm betting I can spend $18.00 at a chemical supply
>company and get a lifetime supply of the stuff.)  Is there a better
>source for this material?  Thanks!

Just wanted to thank those who've responded so far.

If there's any more discussion on this topic, I'd very much appreciate
it if you would e-mail me a copy of your posting so I don't miss out on
what you say.  (I'm going on vacation, then my company is switching its
Internet connection, so I won't be back on-line here  until the switch-
over is completed in early January.  My account will continue to be
active and accepting e-mail until I get back.)

So far, it looks like there are cheaper alternatives for soil testing.
The RapidTest package mentioned by Steve Raque is a much better deal than
what I've found.  He and Bill Terrill both mentioned meters, which might
be a better long-term solution for me.  I'm establishing a square-foot
garden for next year--ideally, I'd like to be able to test and adjust
the pH and fertilizer levels for each individual square as I replant it
throughout the year.  If this is unnecessary or cost-prohibitive, then
I'll settle for using something like the RapidTest package once a year.

I also got an e-mail note from someone who says that the Soil Science
department club at his college sells cheap testing kits.  I'm going to
look into this possibility as well.

Jeff Cook                                   bx711@cleveland.FreeNet.Edu


From stevenson@skyfox.usask.ca Wed Dec 21 22:18:01 EST 1994
Article: 49213 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!skyfox.usask.ca!stevenson
From: stevenson@skyfox.usask.ca (ROB STEVENSON)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Patron Saint of Gardening - ?St. Friake?
Date: 10 DEC 94 21:05:52 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <10DEC94.21055210@skyfox.usask.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sask.usask.ca

Has anyone ever heard that St. Friake is the patron saint of gardens?  
I would be interested in any light that can be shed on this most noble 
person and the history behind her/him.  Please e-mail me directly, as 
I rarely get the chance to read this newsgroup.


Rob 

Stevenson@sask.usask.ca


From klebba@nicolet.com Wed Dec 21 22:18:31 EST 1994
Article: 49186 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!usenet
From: Bob Klebba <klebba@nicolet.com>
Subject: Re: Patron Saint of Gardening - ?St. Friake?
Message-ID: <1994Dec13.200745.11942@nicmad.nicolet.com>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 13 Dec 94 20: 05:28 GMT
Sender: usenet@nicmad.nicolet.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_26
Organization: Nicolet Analytical, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d24
References: <60750-787162673@mindlink.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 20:07:45 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <60750-787162673@mindlink.bc.ca> Maja Grip,
Maja_Grip@mindlink.bc.ca writes:
> Hi--in fact, gardening is rich with patron saints. Take
your pick:
> Saint Dorothea
> St. Adelard
> St. Tryphon
> St. Fiacre (note spelling)
> St. Phocas

St. Fiacre is the one I remember as the patron saint of
gardeners.  Curiously he is also the one invoked for
hemorroids (mal de St-Fiacre).

Robert Klebba  USDA zone 4
Nicolet Instruments Corp.
Madison, WI  53744-4451 USA

telephone: +1-608-276-6374
fax: +1-608-273-5046
Inet: klebba@nicolet.com


From mhuffman@infinet.com Wed Dec 21 22:18:36 EST 1994
Article: 49375 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!caen!malgudi.oar.net!infinet!p22.infinet.com!user
From: mhuffman@infinet.com (Michael Huffman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need tree catalog !
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 00:19:41 -0600
Organization: J. T. S. Computer Services
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <mhuffman-1212940019410001@p22.infinet.com>
References: <D0I1Ln.46J@rex.uokhsc.edu> <3c7jmf$t8b@taurus.fccc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p22.infinet.com

In article <3c7jmf$t8b@taurus.fccc.edu>, gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon
Charles Gilliam) wrote:

> 
>    Another good source is the Arbor Day Foundation, but I don't have
> their address with me.  Their prices are very reasonable, and the 
> quality is also good.
> 

I believe the address to be:

National Arbor Day Foundation
100 Arbor Avenue
Nebraska City, NE 68410

(402) 474-5655

-- Mike!


From hslater@nudge.io.org Wed Dec 21 22:19:28 EST 1994
Article: 49498 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!io.org!nudge.io.org!hslater
From: hslater@nudge.io.org (Harold Slater)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need tree catalog !
Date: 20 Dec 1994 01:23:33 GMT
Organization: Internex Online, Toronto, Ontario, Canada (416 363 3783)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3d5bml$qua@ionews.io.org>
References: <D0I1Ln.46J@rex.uokhsc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nudge.io.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Frank Concannon. (frank@rex.re.uokhsc.edu) wrote:
: Could someone please post address for a reliable mail-order supplier of
: trees.

A good source of unusual as well as the common is Woodlanders.
They have a good selection of interesting natives as well as non-natives.
There Oak selection (as one example) is quite good.

    Woodlanders
    1128 Colleton Ave.
    Aiken, SC 29801
    PH/FAX (803) 648-7522

    descriptive (well done) catalog $2.00

Harold


From civic95@expert.cc.purdue.edu Wed Dec 21 22:20:39 EST 1994
Article: 49199 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!expert.cc.purdue.edu!civic95
From: civic95@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Joseph Koloszar)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia of North American plants?
Date: 14 Dec 1994 09:17:53 -0500
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <civic95.787413931@expert.cc.purdue.edu>
References: <60.34105.4198.0N1C38B3@canrem.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: expert.cc.purdue.edu

kathleen.timms@canrem.com (Kathleen Timms) writes:

>    On Dec 2/94, George Darcy wrote:
>GD>Can anyone please recommend a good reference book that describes
>GD>in detail all plant life in North America (or eastern region)?

>    The Gardener's Encyclopedia of Plants & Flowers, Christopher 
>Brickell, ed.; Dorling Kindersley Publishers, London 1989 is the most 
>useful book I own, covering everything from trees to water plants. 
>Organized by type of plant, then by size, then by season of interest, 
>then by colour.  Good cultural information and more accurate about 
>hardiness than many plant nurseries and catalogues.

>    It is distributed in Canada by The Reader's Digest Association and 
>I believe I have seen a new edition in the bookstore with The Reader's 
>Digest added to the title.

>-= Kathleen.Timms@canrem.com =-

>---
I believe the text you are referring may now be entitled The American
Horticultural Society encyclopedia of plants. Christopher Brickell, ed.
Published in the U.S. by Macmillan, 1992.   

If that is incorrect, then it seems the two would be very much alike.
I can personally recommend the latter. It also has a plant dictionary.

Paul Koloszar (civic95@expert.cc.purdue.edu)
usual disclaimers apply
.
 


From clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 21 22:21:29 EST 1994
Article: 49405 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk (Clarke Brunt)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!demon!brunt.demon.co.uk!clarke
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Reply-To: Clarke Brunt <clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia of North American plants?
References: <60.34105.4198.0N1C38B3@canrem.com>
X-Newsreader: NewsBase v1.36 (Beta)
Lines: 15
X-Posting-Host: brunt.demon.co.uk
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Message-ID: <jxcshi@brunt.demon.co.uk>
Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

In Article <60.34105.4198.0N1C38B3@canrem.com> Kathleen Timms writes:
>    On Dec 2/94, George Darcy wrote:
>GD>Can anyone please recommend a good reference book that describes
>GD>in detail all plant life in North America (or eastern region)?
>
>    The Gardener's Encyclopedia of Plants & Flowers, Christopher
>Brickell, ed.; Dorling Kindersley Publishers, London 1989 is the most
>useful book I own, covering everything from trees to water plants.

I agree - it is an excellent book - but it can't be said to be a list
of plant life in North America. It lists (and pictures) plants for use 
in cultivation, not restricted to those of interest in the U.K.

-- 
Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk)


From kathleen.timms@canrem.com Wed Dec 21 22:21:40 EST 1994
Article: 49233 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Catalogues-Richter's
From: kathleen.timms@canrem.com (Kathleen Timms)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!portnoy!canrem.com!kathleen.timms
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Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 15:50:00 -0500
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  -- are you listening Conrad?).
C >
C >I am indeed!  Please keep in mind that our prices are in Canadian dollars
C >which, at current exchange rates, are discounted about 25% compared to
C >the U.S. dollar.

    I, unfortunately, have to pay the full Canadian price, BUT, I've 
never had a failure with anything from Richter's.  Wish I could say 
the same for some other catalogues.

-= Kathleen.Timms@canrem.com =-

---
 * RoseReader 2.50b P007726 Entered at [CRS]


From ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 21 22:23:18 EST 1994
Article: 49298 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Ken Toews)
Subject: Re: Round Up,  Hurting Soil?
Message-ID: <D0t6u2.8BG@freenet.carleton.ca>
Sender: ar367@freenet3.carleton.ca (Ken Toews)
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References: <LRFORTNEY-1312941032470001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu> <3c8bu6$pok@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <3c219r$m16@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <D0K6Cu.4JM@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:22:50 GMT
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In a previous posting, L. R. Fortney (LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu) writes:
>    Round-up comes in several concentrations.  The inert ingredient in the
> weaker ones is water.  I think the key word is "inert"...although come to
> think of it I guess there is plenty of documented proof on the hazards
> associated with too much water.
> 
> -- 
> Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions---

Sorry but this is simply not true, now for the facts, just the facts.

Please take the time to reread my origional post


The following is from a Monsanto flyer
-Microbes break down the active ingredient of roundup in the soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>note: active ingredient<<<<<<<<
-Roundup wont leach into the soil.....because it binds tightly to
soil particles
-Roundup does not give off fumes or odours.
-Roundup works by stopping the formulation of certain amino acids
(protein building blocks) found only in plants.
>>>>>>>>>>>Roundup is still readily absorbed thru the skin, and
excreted thru the urine. If you like roundup you will say it causes
no problems on the way, if you dont like roundup this will concern
you<<<<<<<<<
-Roundup is safe to humans, pets and wildlife when used as
directed.


The following problems warrant concern when Roundup is considered
for use: 
 
 1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that Roundup is
inactivated rapidly in soil, it is more accurate to say that it is
usually absorbed to soil components.  A sandy loam treated with
glyphosate at recommended application rates (e.g., 2, 5, and 10
ug/g soil) was found to drastically reduce nitrogen fixation,
growth, and nodulation of subterranean clover/Rhizobium trifolium/
planted 120 days after glyphosate treatment. 
Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not adsorb it
readily. 
 
Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to increase during
the second year following treatment with glyphosate, indicating
that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 
 
2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective herbicide,
any desired vegetation must be completely protected from glyphosate
drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup label guide,
"...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe damage or
destruction to the crop, plants, 
or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 
 
3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 

There is no way of knowing what you are applying when you use
roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label guide
published
by Monsanto available at 1-800-225-2883, its free, page 150
Round up weed and grass killer is 99.04% Inert ingredients.

For a complete rundown on what that 99.04% of the product could be
get: The Secret Hazards of Pesticides: Inert Ingredients. It is
available for free from the New York State Department of Law.
1-518-474-5481

4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on glyphosate by
itself is inadequate since the inert ingredients are very important
to making Roundup work.  Most test results are "unpublished and
developed by Monsanto or laboratories hired by Monsanto."  
Other points are made about lack of cancer testing and links to
"human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation oft he
eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis (inflammation of
the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following exposure to
glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing human illness
in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the number of
incidents reported."  No further details on this statistic are 
given.  

 
A "Roundup Information Packet" containing a series of articles on
Roundup is available for $10.50 postpaid from NCAP; P.O. Box 1393;
Eugene OR 97440.  A file of these and additional glyphsate/Roundup
articles is maintained at NCAP; these can be copied at 10
cents/page. 
 
>From  "Roundup, Vision, POEA, and 1,4-Dioxane: Why Full Formulations
Are the Problem." Written by Mary O'Brien--a staff scientist for
NCAP.  Vol. 9, No. 4 of the Journal of Pesticide Reform. 
 
When a letter by four Japanese emergency medicine professionals
appeared in the February 6, 1988 issue of the American medical
journal, The Lancet, a Washington toxicology consultant, David
Monroe, took note.  The Japanese authors were noting that an "inert
ingredient" in the herbicide Roundup (rather than the identified
"active" ingredient, glyphosate) accounts for the 
acute toxicity they had found in patients poisoned (some fatally)
by Roundup 

(JPR 8(1):30).  Symptoms included gastrointestinal ("GI" -ed) pain
and vomiting, swelling of the lungs and pneumonia, reduction of
blood pressure, clouding of consciousness, and red blood cell
destruction. 
 
The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine (POEA),
actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added to Roundup
and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an ingredient
that will help evenly spread the active ingredient, glyphosate, on
target plants. 
 
The Japanese researchers noted that the acute lethal dose of POEA
is less than one-third (i.e., POEA is three times as toxic) that of
Roundup, and that POEA belongs to a class of surfactants that have
been reported to cause adverse GI and central nervous system
effects and damage to red blood cells. 
 
As POEA does not appear on the Roundup label (supposedly protected,
as an inert, from public disclosure under the U.S. pesticide
law...), Monroe first learned of its presence in Roundup through
the Lancet letter.  
 
Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the presence
of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products ...
manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that POEA is a
polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane might be
present as a contaminant of POEA.  
[ the article now describes the side effects of 1,4-dioxane, which
include liver and kidney damage, and cancer in laboratory animals. 
"The liver and kidney damage can occur regardless of the route of
1,4-dioxane exposure 
  (inhalation, oral ingestion, and/or skin application)."   This
section  concludes with this statement: 'The International Agency
for Research on   Cancer indicates that evidence is "sufficient" to
know that 1,4-dioxane  causes cancer in animals and the U.S EPA
regards 1,4-dioxane as a probable human carcinogen.'  
 
  Researchers in British Columbia went on to test Vision (Canada's
version of Roundup) checking for 1,4-dioxane contamination.  From
a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per million
1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the article: ] 
 
A 1982 EPA memo ... also discussed 1,4-dioxane as being present in
dichloroethyl ether.  The 1982 EPA memo ... had been prompted by
concern that 1,4-dioxane had been found in dichloroethyl ether at
0.42 percent and 0.55 percent.  Under "comments/recommendations" in
the memo, the EPA noted that 
the manufacturer of the contaminated dichloroethyl ether "reported
that its employees and customers were being notified of the
presence of 1,4-dioxane in dichloroethyl ether.  In addition, the
company reported that its current safety precautions include
'body-protective clothing and boots, eye protection, and monitoring
of air levels of dichloroethyl ether.'" 
 
Users of Roundup and Vision are not informed that the formulation
contains either POEA or 1,4-dioxane.  Roundup is widely used by
home owners wearing no particular protective clothing, and the
label merely states, "Avoid contact with eyes, skin, and clothing
because of possible (eye and skin) irritation." 
 
The presence of 1,4-dioxane in Vision (and presumably in Roundup)
is a classic example of the following: 
 
 1. Full formulations, "inert" ingredients, and contaminants, not
merely the so-called "active" ingredient, can cause cancer and
other adverse chronic effects; their exemption from testing for
chronic toxicity is indefensible.  
 2. The current classification by the EPA of POEA as a "List 3"
inert ingredient  ("inert of unknown toxicity"), subject neither to
listing on the label nor toxicological testing requirements, is
indefensible. 
  3. Estimating the toxicity of glyphosate alone is meaningless
when a full formulation (e.g., Roundup, Vision) containing POEA,
1,4-dioxane, and other unlisted ingredients and contaminants is the
mixture to which people and the environment will be exposed. 
 
What you don't know can hurt you. 
--
Wisdom                                  *  
Knowledge<------offline                 *  Ken Toews
Information<----available online        *  Nepean Ontario Canada
Data<-----------commonly found online   *


From klebba@nicolet.com Wed Dec 21 22:28:22 EST 1994
Article: 49350 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!usenet
From: Bob Klebba <klebba@nicolet.com>
Subject: Re: Round Up,  Hurting Soil?
Message-ID: <1994Dec16.161936.1784@nicmad.nicolet.com>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 16 Dec 94 15: 08:10 GMT
Sender: usenet@nicmad.nicolet.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_28
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References: <LRFORTNEY-1312941032470001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 16:19:36 GMT
Lines: 134

I don't like to flame, but Ken Toews' diatribe on Roundup
raised my dander:

In article <D0t6u2.8BG@freenet.carleton.ca> Ken Toews,
ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA writes:
> Sorry but this is simply not true, now for the facts,
just the facts.

>  1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that
Roundup is
. . . .
> Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not
adsorb it
> readily. 

This is good information for those gardeners who have very
little clay in their soil.
  
> Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to
increase during
> the second year following treatment with glyphosate,
indicating
> that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 

So what?  Roundup is supposed to kill plants, isn't it?
  
> 2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective
herbicide,
> any desired vegetation must be completely protected from
glyphosate
> drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup
label guide,
> "...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe
damage or
> destruction to the crop, plants, 
> or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 

So what?  Roundup is supposed to kill plants, isn't it?
 
> 3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 
> 
> There is no way of knowing what you are applying when
you use
> roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label
guide
> published

This is true, but a water-soluble pesticide should have
much safer inert ingredients than any organic non-polar
chemical.  The whole issue of not identifying inert
ingredients is a bit of a scam, but most consumers are
unwilling to pay more for their chemicals.

> 4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on
glyphosate by
. . . . 
> "human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation
oft he
> eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis
(inflammation of
> the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following
exposure to
> glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing
human illness
> in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the
number of

Roundup should be respected as a toxic chemical.  Any
exposure a home gardener has is his or her own fault and
is also a violation of federal (US) law (read the label!).
 Put into perspective, the possible toxicity of suspected
inert ingredients in Roundup does not compare with that of
fungicides, fumigants and insecticides used in home
gardening and commercial agriculture.

> The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine
(POEA),
> actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added
to Roundup
> and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an
ingredient
> that will help evenly spread the active ingredient,
glyphosate, on
> target plants. 

I believe POEA stands for polyoxyethylene alcohol, which
is a large family of nonionic surfactants with a large
commerical use.  Some POEAs are also US FDA-approved
cosmetic and pharmaceutic additives.

> Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the
presence
> of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products
...
> manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that
POEA is a
> polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane
might be
> present as a contaminant of POEA.  

Dioxane is indeed evil.  But is it in Roundup?

> a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per
million
> 1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
> equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the
article: ] 

350 ppm = 0.035%, which is still a high concentration.

> What you don't know can hurt you. 

Disinformation and hyperbole only distract.  Let's keep in
mind what our daily hazardous chemical exposure is. 
Anyone near an automobile (operating or not!) is breathing
highly poisonous and carcinogenic chemicals in the 1 to
10000 ppm range.   And what about the propellants in a
spray can of shoe dye?  The label on the can of dye I
bought last week didn't list anything in particular, but
it sure did reek of aromatic solvents.  Granted,
agricultural workers have more to worry about from
pesticide exposure than those of us who read Usenet (I am
assuming we don't pay enough for our food for farm workers
to afford access to the Internet).  But I think of all the
risks we take in our modern lives, using Roundup is pretty
low on the list.

Robert Klebba  USDA zone 4
Nicolet Instruments Corp.
Madison, WI  53744-4451 USA

telephone: +1-608-276-6374
fax: +1-608-273-5046
Inet: klebba@nicolet.com


From klebba@nicolet.com Wed Dec 21 22:28:54 EST 1994
Article: 49350 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!usenet
From: Bob Klebba <klebba@nicolet.com>
Subject: Re: Round Up,  Hurting Soil?
Message-ID: <1994Dec16.161936.1784@nicmad.nicolet.com>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 16 Dec 94 15: 08:10 GMT
Sender: usenet@nicmad.nicolet.com
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References: <LRFORTNEY-1312941032470001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 16:19:36 GMT
Lines: 134

I don't like to flame, but Ken Toews' diatribe on Roundup
raised my dander:

In article <D0t6u2.8BG@freenet.carleton.ca> Ken Toews,
ar367@FreeNet.Carleton.CA writes:
> Sorry but this is simply not true, now for the facts,
just the facts.

>  1. PERSISTENCE.  Although the claim is often made that
Roundup is
. . . .
> Glyphosate clearly remains active in soils that do not
adsorb it
> readily. 

This is good information for those gardeners who have very
little clay in their soil.
  
> Damage to vine maple and bigleaf maple was found to
increase during
> the second year following treatment with glyphosate,
indicating
> that glyphosate persists for extended periods in plants. 

So what?  Roundup is supposed to kill plants, isn't it?
  
> 2. PHYTOTOXICITY.  Because glyphosate is a nonselective
herbicide,
> any desired vegetation must be completely protected from
glyphosate
> drive, mist, or drip.  As Monsanto notes in its Rounup
label guide,
> "...minute quantities of this herbicide can cause severe
damage or
> destruction to the crop, plants, 
> or other areas on which treatment was not intended." 

So what?  Roundup is supposed to kill plants, isn't it?
 
> 3. TOXICITY OF 'INERT' INGREDIENTS. 
> 
> There is no way of knowing what you are applying when
you use
> roundup. According to the 1994 Solaris Product Label
guide
> published

This is true, but a water-soluble pesticide should have
much safer inert ingredients than any organic non-polar
chemical.  The whole issue of not identifying inert
ingredients is a bit of a scam, but most consumers are
unwilling to pay more for their chemicals.

> 4. TESTING. [The article explains that testing on
glyphosate by
. . . . 
> "human damage" including "conjunctivitis (inflammation
oft he
> eyelid and eyeball mucous membrane), dermatitis
(inflammation of
> the skin), and severe flu-like symptoms following
exposure to
> glyphosate.  Of 143 pesticides reported for causing
human illness
> in California in 1986, glyphosate was fourth in the
number of

Roundup should be respected as a toxic chemical.  Any
exposure a home gardener has is his or her own fault and
is also a violation of federal (US) law (read the label!).
 Put into perspective, the possible toxicity of suspected
inert ingredients in Roundup does not compare with that of
fungicides, fumigants and insecticides used in home
gardening and commercial agriculture.

> The so-called "inert ingredient," polyoxyethyleneamine
(POEA),
> actually refers to a family of chemicals.  It is added
to Roundup
> and Vision herbicide formulations  as a surfactant, an
ingredient
> that will help evenly spread the active ingredient,
glyphosate, on
> target plants. 

I believe POEA stands for polyoxyethylene alcohol, which
is a large family of nonionic surfactants with a large
commerical use.  Some POEAs are also US FDA-approved
cosmetic and pharmaceutic additives.

> Monroe recalled a U.S. EPA memorandum that discussed the
presence
> of 1,4-dioxane in two polyalkoxylated polyamine products
...
> manufactured by the Henkel Corporation.  Knowing that
POEA is a
> polyalkoxylated amine, Monroe suspected that 1,4-dioxane
might be
> present as a contaminant of POEA.  

Dioxane is indeed evil.  But is it in Roundup?

> a 250ml sample, the  CANTEST lab detected 350 parts per
million
> 1,4-dioxane using a purge and trap method.  That level is
> equivalent to .35 percent.   now quoting again from the
article: ] 

350 ppm = 0.035%, which is still a high concentration.

> What you don't know can hurt you. 

Disinformation and hyperbole only distract.  Let's keep in
mind what our daily hazardous chemical exposure is. 
Anyone near an automobile (operating or not!) is breathing
highly poisonous and carcinogenic chemicals in the 1 to
10000 ppm range.   And what about the propellants in a
spray can of shoe dye?  The label on the can of dye I
bought last week didn't list anything in particular, but
it sure did reek of aromatic solvents.  Granted,
agricultural workers have more to worry about from
pesticide exposure than those of us who read Usenet (I am
assuming we don't pay enough for our food for farm workers
to afford access to the Internet).  But I think of all the
risks we take in our modern lives, using Roundup is pretty
low on the list.

Robert Klebba  USDA zone 4
Nicolet Instruments Corp.
Madison, WI  53744-4451 USA

telephone: +1-608-276-6374
fax: +1-608-273-5046
Inet: klebba@nicolet.com


From lorgler@iastate.edu Wed Dec 21 22:31:14 EST 1994
Article: 49444 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!lorgler
From: lorgler@iastate.edu (Lisa Nunamaker-Orgler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: re: folklore of plants
Date: 14 Dec 1994 17:20:22 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa (USA)
Lines: 11
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NNTP-Posting-Host: isuad1.iastate.edu


I have a couple of ideas for you --  one book that I just love is written by
Sara Midda.  I      can't remember the exact title right now but it has the
word garden in it.  It is full of folklore and beautiful pictures!

Another book is by Hal Borland and Les Line, called A Countryman's Woods. 
It describes how plants got their names.  the same author also wrote a book
with a similar title -- A Countryman's Flowers or something like that.  Try
-- 
Lisa L Orgler
lorgler@iastate.edu


From libby@igc.apc.org Wed Dec 21 22:32:31 EST 1994
Article: 49439 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!not-for-mail
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Otto Richter - herbs
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9c98'bec@igc.apc.org>
References: <89FA2E1.10210009F5.uuout@sasquat>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 13:47:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 4

One of their addresses is:     catalog@richters.com
Conrad richter can be reached at     conrad@richters.com

Libby


From gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu Wed Dec 21 22:33:24 EST 1994
Article: 49303 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!gilliam
From: gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 15 Dec 1994 13:38:51 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA
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Reply-To: gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: rudkin.rm.fccc.edu
X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-24



My 'awards' for super catalogs & seed companies:

Most Useful & Informative:  Goes to Stokes without a doubt.  An impressive
   range of varieties, with culture information that rivals most reference
   books.  Included:  % germination, bloom dates, days to transplants,
   when to sow in the garden, ideal temperature for germination, light
   requirements for germination ... what more could you ask for?

   I feel some guilt for never having ordered from Stokes, even
   though I constantly refer back to the catalog for information.  

Most Beautifully & Tastefully Illustrated:  Parks!  The color photography
   is vivid, the varieties are gorgeous.  Simply a delight to browse.
   An incredible reprieve from the winter blahs.

Most Variety:  For herbs, Richter's without a doubt.  If it's an unusual
               herb, and nobody else has it, chances are Richter's does.
               For flowers & vegetables, the award goes to Stokes, with
               honorable mention to DeGiorgi Seed Company.

Best Value:  Pinetree Seeds!  Reasonable packet sizes, good germination,
             fine selection of varieties, and best of all low prices.  The
             seed quantities have been more than enough for my home garden,
             I don't have large quantities of leftover seeds from year to
             year, and I with the money I save I can try out some more
             unusual varieties.  What more could you ask for?

Lowest Prices:  It would be hard to beat thw 25 cent sample packets from
                Le Jardin du Gourmet.  This is my first year ordering from
                them, so I can't as yet comment on the quality of the
                seeds, but the catalog does explicity give a range for each
                variety of the seed count in the sample packets.

Worst Classifications:  Liberty Seed Company, out of New Philadelphia, OH
                for placing a tomatillo with little distinguishing 
                identification under the Tomato heading, and for commiting
                the same sin with New Zeland spinach under the Spinach
                heading.  I for one would be disappointed to order either
                of these expecting them to be just another variety of
                tomato or spinach.

Worst Editing:  Le Jardin du Gourmet.  Hand-typewritten catalog (a computer
                with a printer isn't that expensive!), creative spelling,
                and interesting grammar, to be kind.  The included recipes
                were appreciated, but seemingly out of place.  I would have
                prefered the space devoted to description of the varieties,
                which for the most part are not described at all.  

I'd be interested in other folk's awards list too!
:jon

-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
   I have a flawless philosophical and scientific model of reality.  
   Unfortunately, it's actual size. 
      - mathew@mantis.co.uk (Snakes of Medusa)
-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
"Man in his struggle for life began with dances, shouts, songs,
incantations and warlike mimes meant to bring to him the strength


From jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Dec 21 22:34:23 EST 1994
Article: 49270 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!jhoskins
From: jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 15 Dec 1994 15:52:28 GMT
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Jon Charles Gilliam <gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu> wrote:
[interesting list deleted]
>
>Lowest Prices:  It would be hard to beat thw 25 cent sample packets from
>                Le Jardin du Gourmet.  This is my first year ordering from
>                them, so I can't as yet comment on the quality of the
>                seeds, but the catalog does explicity give a range for each
>                variety of the seed count in the sample packets.


I've been ordering from them now for about eight years, even before the
kids took over the business from the father.  The seed quality is excellent,
I've never had any problems.



>Worst Editing:  Le Jardin du Gourmet.  Hand-typewritten catalog (a computer
>                with a printer isn't that expensive!), creative spelling,
>                and interesting grammar, to be kind.  The included recipes
>                were appreciated, but seemingly out of place.  I would have
>                prefered the space devoted to description of the varieties,
>                which for the most part are not described at all.


Ha!  Let me second, third, and fourth this comment.  Their catalog is
so jarring to the senses, and confusing, that there's gotta be some
GENIUS marketing strategy...because...I decipher it and order from them
every year.  In spite of having a catalog that looks put together the
same way William S. Burroughs wrote "Naked Lunch" they've never messed
up an order.  In particular, their boxes of cooking shallots are
very attractive and you can order "subscriptions" of shallots as gifts
for friends and family which recipients'll get every couple months
throughout the year --for a very reasonable price.

One thing Jon, you gave their address as Box 7, someone earlier gave
the P.O. Box as 75.  I'm sure mail will get to 'em either way though.

Jim


From gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu Wed Dec 21 22:34:31 EST 1994
Article: 49394 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!gilliam
From: gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 16 Dec 1994 19:12:24 GMT
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In article <3cpons$6lu@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes:
[snip]
>
>One thing Jon, you gave their address as Box 7, someone earlier gave
>the P.O. Box as 75.  I'm sure mail will get to 'em either way though.
>
>Jim
>

   You're right ... sorry for the typo.

   The address for Le Jardin du Gourmet should be P.O. Box 75

Thanks, Jim!
:jon

-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
   "God created Man in his own Image, and Man, being a Gentleman, 
    returned the complement"
-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
   "God created Man in his own Image, and Man, being a Gentleman, 
    returned the complement"


From gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu Wed Dec 21 22:35:07 EST 1994
Article: 49516 of rec.gardens
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From: gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 16 Dec 1994 20:36:31 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA
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In article <15DEC199417365666@utkvx.utk.edu>, boake@utkvx.utk.edu (Chris Boake) writes:
>In article <3cpgtb$6bl@taurus.fccc.edu>, gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam) writes...
>> 
>>My 'awards' for super catalogs & seed companies:
>
>This list was intriguing.  I'd like to receive some of the less common 
>catalogs.  Could you please post addresses for them?
>Many thanks!
>--Chris Boake
>
>

Here's a few:   


   Pinetree Garden Seeds
   Box 300
   New Gloucester, ME  04260
   1-207-926-3400 

   Stokes
   P.O. Box 548
   Buffalo, New York  14240-0548
   1-716-695-6980

   Le Jardin du Gourmet
   Box 75
   St. Johnsbury Ct., VT 05863

   If you pick up a copy of Organic Gardening magazine and browse the
'Marketplace' section, you can probably find the others I mention as
I don't have other addresses with me.  Check National Gardening also.

:jon

-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
"The value and validity of an experience exists independently from the
 validity of the process that gave rise to it."  -- Mark Kampe
-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
   Be careful of reading health books; you might die of a
   misprint.


From dahlia75@aol.com Wed Dec 21 22:36:17 EST 1994
Article: 49369 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dahlia75@aol.com (DAHLIA75)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 17 Dec 1994 11:10:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <3cstof$jj4@taurus.fccc.edu>, gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon
Charles Gilliam) writes:

As the owner of Pinetree Garden Seeds I am certainly flattered to be
included in your list of top catalogs. Much of the fun of gardening comes
>from  experimentation with different varieties and species and I'd like  to
think that we and the other mailorder companies facilitate this process.
Gardeners interested in faxing for a catalog can do so at 207-926-3886. A
question for you - I've seen a gardening mailing list mentioned on the
internet but haven't been able to locate it.
Do you know how to get in touch with it? Thanks  Dick Meiners 


From dahlia75@aol.com Wed Dec 21 22:44:44 EST 1994
Article: 49369 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dahlia75@aol.com (DAHLIA75)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 17 Dec 1994 11:10:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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In article <3cstof$jj4@taurus.fccc.edu>, gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon
Charles Gilliam) writes:

As the owner of Pinetree Garden Seeds I am certainly flattered to be
included in your list of top catalogs. Much of the fun of gardening comes
>from  experimentation with different varieties and species and I'd like  to
think that we and the other mailorder companies facilitate this process.
Gardeners interested in faxing for a catalog can do so at 207-926-3886. A
question for you - I've seen a gardening mailing list mentioned on the
internet but haven't been able to locate it.
Do you know how to get in touch with it? Thanks  Dick Meiners 


From rob.king@nfe.com Wed Dec 21 22:44:52 EST 1994
Article: 49415 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: RE: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 18 Dec 1994 10:43:28 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
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 gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam) wrote:

G>My 'awards' for super catalogs & seed companies:

Except for the last company you mentioned: "Le Jardin"... I have
received and used all the companies you have listed, and can't disagree
with any of your assessments...  I can only add a couple for comment.

G>Most Useful & Informative:  Goes to Stokes without a doubt.  An impressive
 >   range of varieties, with culture information that rivals most reference
 >   books.  Included:  % germination, bloom dates, days to transplants,
 >   when to sow in the garden, ideal temperature for germination, light
 >   requirements for germination ... what more could you ask for?

G>Most Beautifully & Tastefully Illustrated:  Parks!  The color photography
 >   is vivid, the varieties are gorgeous.  Simply a delight to browse.
 >   An incredible reprieve from the winter blahs.

Not to mention Parks publishes 3-4 SEASONAL catalogs... you almost have
to put them all together to see the entire inventory.  Thomson & Morgan
has a nice 'little' colorful catalog also... small pictures, tho.

G>Most Variety:  For herbs, Richter's without a doubt.  If it's an unusual
 >               herb, and nobody else has it, chances are Richter's does.
 >               For flowers & vegetables, the award goes to Stokes, with
 >               honorable mention to DeGiorgi Seed Company.

Another honorable mention <HERB catagory> Companion Plants/ Athens, OH.
All they sell are HERBS... not quite as many as Richter's... but they
have a few that Richter's doesn't... all seeds are $1.25 each + ONE BUCK
for shipping... period.

G>Best Value:  Pinetree Seeds!  Reasonable packet sizes, good germination,
 >             fine selection of varieties, and best of all low prices.  The
 >             seed quantities have been more than enough for my home garden,
 >             I don't have large quantities of leftover seeds from year to
 >             year, and I with the money I save I can try out some more
 >             unusual varieties.  What more could you ask for?

It's interesting that the company that sells .40 seed packs also prints
on recycled newsprint in 2-color.  NO complaints here.

G>Lowest Prices:  It would be hard to beat thw 25 cent sample packets from
 >                Le Jardin du Gourmet.  This is my first year ordering from
 >                them, so I can't as yet comment on the quality of the
 >                seeds, but the catalog does explicity give a range for each
 >                variety of the seed count in the sample packets.

G>Worst Classifications:  Liberty Seed Company, out of New Philadelphia, OH
 >                for placing a tomatillo with little distinguishing
 >                identification under the Tomato heading, and for commiting
 >                the same sin with New Zeland spinach under the Spinach
 >                heading.  I for one would be disappointed to order either
 >                of these expecting them to be just another variety of
 >                tomato or spinach.

G>Worst Editing:  Le Jardin du Gourmet.  Hand-typewritten catalog (a computer
 >                with a printer isn't that expensive!), creative spelling,
 >                and interesting grammar, to be kind.  The included recipes
 >                were appreciated, but seemingly out of place.  I would have
 >                prefered the space devoted to description of the varieties,
 >                which for the most part are not described at all.

Speciality catagory= GARLIC:  Filaree Farms, Okanogan, WA. <Yes, it's
        called SEED>  350 varieties of garlic from around the world.
        Ron <literally> wrote the book on garlic.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From CETS33A@prodigy.com Wed Dec 21 22:45:00 EST 1994
Article: 49464 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: CETS33A@prodigy.com (Joe Imhof)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 19 Dec 1994 03:01:18 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 32
Distribution: world
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Best Garden Catalogs: 

1  Seeds of Change
2  Johnnys Selected Seeds
3  Stokes

I agree with those who mentioned superior culture info in the Stokes 
catalog--they also have an extremely wide selection of modern hybrids and 
op's especily in the brassica family.  Johnnys also has a wealth of 
information and a number of heirloom varieties.  Seeds of change offers 
only open polinated organicallly grown seeds.  They have a wide selection 
of vegatable varieties which are never found in such "regular" catalogs 
such as Stokes or Parks.  There are hundereds of new and interesting 
tomato, pepper etc varieties out there to try and I find it rewarding to 
be trying new ones each year.  

Most Ovverrated Catalog in the Newsgroup:
1  Parks

Well, I only grow veggies, so perhaps much of the praise here is for 
their flower varieties, but in vegetables they have pretty much the 
standard fare you can get anywhere, so their catalog is somewhat 
uninteresting to me, however, I may order supplies from them and also 
that new yellow torenia variety they have in this years catalog--torenia 
are some of the only flowers i grow, and mine are all blue.

  
-JOE IMHOF  CETS33A@prodigy.com
"Its time to stop pretending that your somebody else,
You know you can't change this world but you can 
change yourself"  -Glenn Frey



From hilda@elf.com Wed Dec 21 22:45:26 EST 1994
Article: 49469 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!satisfied.elf.com!hilda
From: hilda@elf.com (Hilda Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 19 Dec 1994 03:41:53 GMT
Organization: Elf Communications
Lines: 15
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NNTP-Posting-Host: asylum.sf.ca.us

I'd also like to put in a good word for

Chiltern Seeds
Bortree Stile
Ulverston
Cumbria  LA12 7PB
ENGLAND

No pictures, but helpful, exhaustive descriptions; and lots of
variety.  Basically, if it grows in England and sets seed, Chiltern
has it (except for something as common and unnoticed as pellitory-
of-the-wall, which I *still* haven't found a source of seed for!)

Love, Hilda



From resta@iei.pi.cnr.it Wed Dec 21 22:45:37 EST 1994
Article: 49457 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!serra.unipi.it!mac-resta.iei.pi.cnr.it!user
From: resta@iei.pi.cnr.it (Giovanni Resta)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 16:46:25 +0100
Organization: IEI-CNR Italy
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <resta-1912941646250001@mac-resta.iei.pi.cnr.it>
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In article <3d2ve1$t5l@satisfied.elf.com>, hilda@elf.com (Hilda Marshall) wrote:

> I'd also like to put in a good word for
> 
> Chiltern Seeds
> Bortree Stile
> Ulverston
> Cumbria  LA12 7PB
> ENGLAND
> 
> No pictures, but helpful, exhaustive descriptions; and lots of
> variety.  Basically, if it grows in England and sets seed, Chiltern
> has it 

And not only England. Among the THOUSANDS of species (mostly botanical 
species == wild flowers) there is also a good choice of Australian,
NewZealand and South African plants. (and also American).

Among the other I love their 'Lottery Mixture' packets.
Last year you can choose among (if I remember correctly) annuals,
hardy perennial, shrubs and tree, others and a completely unknown mix
(soon or later I will buy this, since it sounds very challengy and
funny).
I bought an annuals packet and I obtained a lovely selection of
flowers in the [very-common , what-is-that?] range.

(except for something as common and unnoticed as pellitory-
> of-the-wall, which I *still* haven't found a source of seed for!)
> 
> Love, Hilda
Giovanni 'waiting for the 1995 chiltern catalog' Resta


From gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu Wed Dec 21 22:45:49 EST 1994
Article: 49462 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!taurus.fccc.edu!gilliam
From: gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Catalog Awards
Date: 19 Dec 1994 15:51:26 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA
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In article <3d2t1u$uqk@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, CETS33A@prodigy.com (Joe Imhof) writes:
[snip]
>Most Ovverrated Catalog in the Newsgroup:
>1  Parks
>
>Well, I only grow veggies, so perhaps much of the praise here is for 
>their flower varieties, but in vegetables they have pretty much the 
>standard fare you can get anywhere, so their catalog is somewhat 
>uninteresting to me, however, I may order supplies from them and also 
>that new yellow torenia variety they have in this years catalog--torenia 
>are some of the only flowers i grow, and mine are all blue.

   I'm still taken with Park's catalog -- just on the basis of how
well it is photogtraphed, and the beautiful varieties of flowers that
they offer.

   As to their vegetable selection  -- I'm in complete agreement.  It 
is mediocre and dramatically overpriced.  My order to Parks this year
(which incidently has arrived) consisted solely of flower seeds and
garden products.  

   Note that Parks seeds do come in sealed, air-tight foil packets,
with good culture information printed on the back of each envelope.  

:jon

-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
   Believing ourselves to be possessors of absolute truth
   degrades us: we regard every person whose way of thinking
   is different from ours as a monster and a  threat and by
   so doing turn our own selves into monsters and threats to
   our fellows.
   -- Octavio Paz
-- 
-----
Jon C. Gilliam   <JC_Gilliam@fccc.edu>
   Believing ourselves to be possessors of absolute truth
   degrades us: we regard every person whose way of thinking


From Phil.Hansford@p1.f943.n102.z1.novanet.dpcsys.com Wed Dec 21 22:47:13 EST 1994
Article: 49557 of rec.gardens
From: Phil.Hansford@p1.f943.n102.z1.novanet.dpcsys.com (Phil Hansford)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!dpcdev.dpcsys.com!novanet!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Message-ID: <787994414.AA00077@novanet.dpcsys.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 08:55:20 -0800
X-FTN-To: Brian Korbelik
Lines: 16

 BK> From: blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM (Brian Korbelik)
 BK> Organization: Pacific * Bell

 BK> Hello,

 BK> I would like to make up a a nector and host plant list by regions for
 BK> butterflies and moths in the US and Canada. What I would like is
 BK> the plants that people have actually seen the leps using, and if 
 BK> possible what type of butterfly, skipper or moth.
 BK> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
Here in SoCal, I've noticed butterflies, and especially moths, are
attrated to lantana.
 
//Phil//



From kolling@adobe.com Wed Dec 21 22:47:46 EST 1994
Article: 49429 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kolling
From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling)
Subject: Re: organic gardening HELP! (really: tomatoes)
Message-ID: <1994Dec18.214321.633@adobe.com>
Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
References: <D0x0qC.44w@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 21:43:21 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <D0x0qC.44w@freenet.carleton.ca> bm469@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karey Coverstone) writes:
>
>I was wondering if anyone had some good ideas for staking tomatoe
>s.  Last year I trained them up a string, but they got too big and
>unruly.  Any suggestions?

For normal varieties (Ace, Early Girl, etc.) the circular wire cages
work well.  For small varieties, even the fold flat for storage
rectangular cages, possibly stacked work okay.  For heirlooms like
Brandwine, etc. you need to get into serious structural stuff.
I have not solved the latter problem, but I'm going to try a frame
with posts buried 2-3 feet in the ground this year.


From libby@igc.apc.org Wed Dec 21 22:48:23 EST 1994
Article: 49440 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!not-for-mail
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: organic gardening HELP!
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9c99'd21@igc.apc.org>
References: <D0x0qC.44w@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 13:52:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 11

If you want to use string again next season, make sure to remove
all of the side shoots. That will stop the "unruly". I tie mine to
a trellis that supports my Sugar Snaps in the spring. As long as I
keep tying the shoots to the net, like weekly or whenever I notice
stragglers, the method does really well.

Otherwise you could try using fairly heavy stakes, an inch or so
in diameter and 7-8ft tall driven 2ft into the ground, but you'd
still have to pinch out the side-shoots/

Libby


From conrad@richters.com Wed Dec 21 22:51:56 EST 1994
Article: 49354 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!richtr!conrad
From: conrad@richters.com (Conrad Richter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: ginseng cultivation
Message-ID: <4Z3gXc2w165w@richters.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 94 05:00:50 EST
References: <basckin.119.2EF1E000@mtb.und.ac.za>
Organization: Richters Herbs
Lines: 27

basckin@mtb.und.ac.za (David Basckin) writes:

> Hi - I am looking for any information on ginseng cultivation.  Thanks.

Briefly, ginseng requires cool temperate conditions, about 70% shade, 
and good, well-drained soil.  Time to harvest takes four years.  The 
seed must be stratified one year and does not tolerate dessication. 

There are several books you might want to look at:

   1.  American Ginseng, Green Gold.  W. Scott Persons.  This is a 
       grower's guide covering every facet of production and 
       marketing.  203 pp.  Softcover.  

   2.  Ginseng and Other Medicinal Plants.  Harding.  Although written 
       in 1914, it is still a worthwhile investment with lots of 
       hands-on information for commercial growers.  Also covers 
       goldenseal and other North American woodland herbs.  385 pp.  
       Softcover.  

Both are available from Richters.   

Conrad Richter

RICHTERS HERBS                     | Info:                 info@richters.com
Goodwood, ON  L0C 1A0, Canada      | Catalog Requests:  catalog@richters.com
Tel +1-905-640-6677  Fax 640-6641  | What's New for '95:    new@richters.com


From afn06009@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu Wed Dec 21 22:53:15 EST 1994
Article: 49352 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!afn06009
From: afn06009@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu (K. Daniel Warco)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Worm bins
Date: 17 Dec 1994 10:46:57 GMT
Organization: Alachua County Freenet
Lines: 10
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NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu

To harvest dump the contents on a flat surface under a light.  Wait a few 
minutes for the worms to go down in the pile.  Scrape the top layer of 
bedding and castings from the pile untill you get to the worms.  Wait a 
few minutes for the worms to go deeper and repeat the scrapping.  After 
doing this a few times you will end up with just worms.  Put the worms 
back in the bin with new bedding and you are back in business.

Have fun.
I use the castings on all of my plants, my garden, trees, and lawn. 
D A N- Trenton, Fl.     KAZARIE Worm Farm


From bob@interstate.net Wed Dec 21 22:53:54 EST 1994
Article: 49381 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!winternet.com!interstate.net!bob
From: bob@interstate.net (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Has anyone seen the book _Index of Garden Plants_?
Date: 17 Dec 1994 19:42:57 GMT
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Has anyone seen the new book _Index of Garden Plants_ by Mark Griffiths 
(ISBN 0-88192-246-3)? At a suggested list price Of $59.95, it's been 
recommended as an inexpensive replacement to _Hortus III_ by the editors 
of "HortIdeas." I'd be interested in hearing (?) what anyone else thinks 
of this book.

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bob Batson				L 39 12 14 N  94 33 16 W
bob@interstate.net			USDA zone 5



From sean@hand.timeinc.com Wed Dec 21 22:55:22 EST 1994
Article: 49495 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: Sean Callahan <sean@hand.timeinc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Has anyone seen the book _Index of Garden Plants_?
Date: 19 Dec 1994 06:51:54 GMT
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References: <3cvf01$m88@mindcrime.interstate.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.143.115

bob@interstate.net (Bob Batson) wrote:
>
> Has anyone seen the new book _Index of Garden Plants?

It's a condensation of the 4-volume, approx $750 RHS encyclopedia.
What's missing is all the detailed professional/scientific botanical
descriptions. What's left is useful and authoritative for the home
gardener. It doesn't have very many illustrations; this is straight
data, not a wish book.

It's probably the best single up-to-date reference volume currently
available.

Sean Callahan
The Virtual Garden
Time Life

TimeLife@AOL.com 


From keziak@aol.com Wed Dec 21 22:55:51 EST 1994
Article: 49540 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: keziak@aol.com (Kezia K)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Index of garden plants
Date: 17 Dec 1994 16:40:09 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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I have not personally seen this book, but I understand that it is a
companion to the massive 5 (8?) volume Royal Horticultural Society
Encyclopedia of gardening which came out 2-3 years ago.  I believe the
Index lists all the plants covered by the encyclopedia, but I am not sure
how much information is provided.  In other words, is it simply an index,
or a shorter encyclopedia itself?

As for an alternative to Hortus, isn't Hortus 4 supposedly in the works?

KeziaK
Northern VA


From Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca Wed Dec 21 22:56:08 EST 1994
Article: 49384 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!news
From: Gordon Croft <Gordon_Croft@Mindlink.bc.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Organic Gardening Index?
Date: 18 Dec 1994 00:22:12 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! Communications Corp.
Lines: 8
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NNTP-Posting-Host: line11.nwm.mindlink.net

I noticed in my latest issue of OG that there is an index at the back
of the mag. for the entire year!  Great idea!!

Anyone know if there is a "downloadable" index of all their stuff?

Thanks,

Gord


From peburnsx@prairienet.org Wed Dec 21 22:56:25 EST 1994
Article: 49402 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!peburnsx
From: peburnsx@prairienet.org (Pamela E. Burns-Balogh)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: natural history books'
Date: 18 Dec 1994 11:40:32 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org


you can now telnet to Koeltz Scientific Books
telnet to prairienet.org
at command/prompt     go koeltz
-- 


From peburnsx@prairienet.org Wed Dec 21 22:57:00 EST 1994
Article: 49402 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!peburnsx
From: peburnsx@prairienet.org (Pamela E. Burns-Balogh)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: natural history books'
Date: 18 Dec 1994 11:40:32 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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Message-ID: <3d173g$1nj@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org


you can now telnet to Koeltz Scientific Books
telnet to prairienet.org
at command/prompt     go koeltz
-- 


From tootie@delphi.com Wed Dec 21 22:59:41 EST 1994
Article: 49473 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: tootie <tootie@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Recommend me a good book
Date: Sun, 18 DEC 94 23:04:40 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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X-To: Gloria Mercado-Martin <desidia@solano.community.net>

Gloria Mercado-Martin <desidia@solano.community.net> writes:
 
>text.  Please give me some advice (preferably before Xmas, so that i can 
 
The best books for basic information are : The Harrowsmith Annual Garden, the
Harrowsmith Perennial Garden, Better Homes and Gardens Step-by-step successful
gardening, Flowering bulbs indoors and out, and I'm not sure of the title on the
last- the Rodale encyclopedia of Perennials (it is NOT the same as the Rodale
organic gardening book recommended by others above but it is full of practical
information on starting and designing a garden, as well as choosing perennials
suited to your situation.) When you get around to reading garden writers just
for pleasure, read Ann Lovejoy, Pamela Harper, Allen Lacy, Henry Mitchell and
Christopher Lloyd for starters :)


From sean@hand.timeinc.com Wed Dec 21 23:00:03 EST 1994
Article: 49496 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: Sean Callahan <sean@hand.timeinc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Recommend me a good book
Date: 19 Dec 1994 07:00:06 GMT
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3d3b1m$rtk@alterdial.UU.NET>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.143.115

tootie <tootie@delphi.com> wrote:
>
> Gloria Mercado-Martin <desidia@solano.community.net> writes:
>  
> >text.  Please give me some advice (preferably before Xmas,

You can read a collection of reviews of garden books by Allen Lacy.

They are part of his newsletter, Homeground, which is in the Virtual
Garden. To go to the reviews section set your browser to:
http://www.timeinc.com/vg/Magazine-Rack/Homeground/indexbooks.html

Sean Callahan
The Virtual Garden
Time Life
TimeLife@AOL.com



From debradfo@ingr.com Wed Dec 21 23:00:56 EST 1994
Article: 49472 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!news.ingr.com!b11.b11.ingr.com!usenet
From: "David E. Bradford" <debradfo@ingr.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Companies - Who's Who?
Date: 19 Dec 1994 18:06:30 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL
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Message-ID: <3d4i36$3ef@b11.b11.ingr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: claudius.b29.ingr.com

I know that Park's and Wayside must be either sister companies or the
same company. However, I was suprised last year when my order from
Cook's Garden came to me with a South Carolina return address (or
was it the charge card billing address?).Anyway, this got me wondering
if Cook's Garden wasn't somehow associated with Park/Wayside.
Cook's Garden is supposedly out of Vermont, I think, and a family
business. Does Park/Wayside just handle their shipping or something?

And while we are at it, are there other seed companies which operate
under several names?

No problem with either Park, Wayside, or Cook's Garden mind you. I
happen to like them a lot. But I am wondering just how many players
are really in the seed business.

Thanks.

Dave Bradford
debradfo@ingr.com



From WinFarm@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu Wed Dec 21 23:01:01 EST 1994
Article: 49564 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!WinFarm
From: WinFarm@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu (Winstead Farms)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Companies - Who's Who?
Date: 20 Dec 1994 14:07:47 GMT
Organization: Alachua County Freenet
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References: <3d4i36$3ef@b11.b11.ingr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu

Some larger seed companies use growers in various parts of the country to 
produce their seeds and plants.  In order to save on shipping costs your 
order may have been direct shipped from a contract grower.  We are an 
herb and novelty plant nursery in North Central Florida, and do mail 
order for live plants.  We also contract grow for other nurseries.  
Because we specialize in herbs, we can produce plants for them cheaper 
than they could grow themselves.

		Lise, Winstead Farms "herbs for all seasons"


From WinFarm@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu Wed Dec 21 23:02:20 EST 1994
Article: 49564 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!WinFarm
From: WinFarm@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu (Winstead Farms)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Companies - Who's Who?
Date: 20 Dec 1994 14:07:47 GMT
Organization: Alachua County Freenet
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NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu

Some larger seed companies use growers in various parts of the country to 
produce their seeds and plants.  In order to save on shipping costs your 
order may have been direct shipped from a contract grower.  We are an 
herb and novelty plant nursery in North Central Florida, and do mail 
order for live plants.  We also contract grow for other nurseries.  
Because we specialize in herbs, we can produce plants for them cheaper 
than they could grow themselves.

		Lise, Winstead Farms "herbs for all seasons"


From Phil.Hansford@p1.f943.n102.z1.novanet.dpcsys.com Wed Dec 21 23:02:27 EST 1994
Article: 49556 of rec.gardens
From: Phil.Hansford@p1.f943.n102.z1.novanet.dpcsys.com (Phil Hansford)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!dpcdev.dpcsys.com!novanet!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Companies - Who's Who?
Message-ID: <787994414.AA00076@novanet.dpcsys.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 08:48:54 -0800
X-FTN-To: "David E. Bradford"
Lines: 21

 "EB> From: "David E. Bradford" <debradfo@ingr.com>
 "EB> Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL

 "EB> I know that Park's and Wayside must be either sister companies or the
 "EB> same company. However, I was suprised last year when my order from
 "EB> Cook's Garden came to me with a South Carolina return address (or
 "EB> was it the charge card billing address?).Anyway, 
 "EB> this got me wondering
 "EB> if Cook's Garden wasn't somehow associated with Park/Wayside.
 "EB> Cook's Garden is supposedly out of Vermont, I think, and a family
 "EB> business. Does Park/Wayside just handle their shipping or something?
 
Yes, even though they have slightly different addresses, Parks owns
Wayside.  I remember some years back, when Wayside was located in an
Eastern state, I think they had financial difficulties, and Parks bought
them, then moved them to a nearby location in South Carolina.
 
As far as Cook's, maybe they're drop shipping.
 
//Phil//



From swell@infi.net Wed Dec 21 23:03:36 EST 1994
Article: 49558 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!usenet
From: swell@infi.net (Nancy Swell)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 20 Dec 1994 03:29:28 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3d5j2o$pka@lucy.infi.net>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU>
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X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

Hi Vickie,
You didn't really say if you wanted something that would include culture.
The best visual guide I have is one of the Eyewitness handbooks. 'Trees'
by Allen J. Coombes, The visual guide to more than 500 species of trees 
>from  around the world. Shows the shape and structure of the tree, leaf 
and fruit. ISBN 1-56458-072-5. I think my book was about $18.00. Very 
condensed, (more information than you think), pictures are very clear. 
Has really helped me figure out the differences between different maples
and also the oaks.....Hope this helps...............Nancy


From belknap@devmko.enet.dec.com Sun Jan  1 21:04:10 EST 1995
Article: 49748 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!devmko.enet.dec.com!belknap
From: belknap@devmko.enet.dec.com ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: 21 Dec 1994 20:09:26 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3da21m$284@jac.zko.dec.com>
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X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-9


Here in Northern Massachussets, butterflies are attracted to the following
plants in my garden: lupines, manadra (bee balm), purple coneflower and budleia.



From rob.king@nfe.com Sun Jan  1 21:04:18 EST 1995
Article: 49766 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: 26 Dec 1994 07:41:11 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
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Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9412260817476067@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

T>Brian Korbelik (blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM) wrote:
 >: Hello,

T>: I would like to make up a a nector and host plant list by regions for
 >: butterflies and moths in the US and Canada. What I would like is
 >: the plants that people have actually seen the leps using, and if
 >: possible what type of butterfly, skipper or moth.
 >: Any input would be greatly appreciated.

There's a fairly new newsgroup: sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera  which
deals with this... it has much discussion on butterfy gardening too, so
don't let the name of the group scare you away.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From charles.hersey@xonxoff.com Sun Jan  1 21:04:36 EST 1995
Article: 49907 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!xonxoff!charles.hersey
From: charles.hersey@xonxoff.com (CHARLES HERSEY)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Message-ID: <8A07040.1DC80001F8.uuout@xonxoff.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 01:04:00 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: XON/XOFF Information Service
Reply-To: charles.hersey@xonxoff.com (CHARLES HERSEY)
References: <8A00217.1DC80001D3.uuout@xonxoff.com>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.21
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.10
Lines: 23

->  BK> I would like to make up a a nector and host plant list by regions for
->  BK> butterflies and moths in the US and Canada. What I would like is
->  BK> the plants that people have actually seen the leps using, and if 
->  BK> possible what type of butterfly, skipper or moth.
->  BK> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
->  
-> Here in SoCal, I've noticed butterflies, and especially moths, are
-> attrated to lantana.


Here in the Laurentian mountains, we welcome the august visit of 
migrating monarch butterflys. They winter over in Mexico, I believe. 
The only nectar they seem to like is that of the milk weed plant. The 
two together are a sight.

The milkweed grows best in vacant lots, and abandoned fields. In my 
case it grows where lawn meets bush.

Happy Trails,
ÿ
CH

 * 1st 1.11 * Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.


From LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu Sun Jan  1 21:05:06 EST 1995
Article: 50009 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!hepmc7.phy.duke.edu!user
From: LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu (L. R. Fortney)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: 30 Dec 1994 14:10:19 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, Duke Univ
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <LRFORTNEY-3012940911590001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
References: <8A00217.1DC80001D3.uuout@xonxoff.com> <8A07040.1DC80001F8.uuout@xonxoff.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hepmc7.phy.duke.edu

In article <8A07040.1DC80001F8.uuout@xonxoff.com>,
charles.hersey@xonxoff.com (CHARLES HERSEY) wrote:

> Here in the Laurentian mountains, we welcome the august visit of 
> migrating monarch butterflys. They winter over in Mexico, I believe. 
> The only nectar they seem to like is that of the milk weed plant. The 
> two together are a sight.
> 
> The milkweed grows best in vacant lots, and abandoned fields. In my 
> case it grows where lawn meets bush.

   Here in NC, I occasionally get flights of monarchs coming down to fall
asters and chrys.  I think the secret is a large drift of the same color. 
Maybe they need  to see it from far away.  One year I had them falling
>from  dots in the sky like leaves dumped from an airplane.

-- 
Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions---


From kack0001@gold.tc.umn.edu Sun Jan  1 21:05:18 EST 1995
Article: 50015 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news
From: Donald Kackman <kack0001@gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Message-ID: <D1n69v.5Cx@news.cis.umn.edu>
Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: s502.soils.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
References: <8A00217.1DC80001D3.uuout@xonxoff.com> <8A07040.1DC80001F8.uuout@xonxoff.com> <LRFORTNEY-3012940911590001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 21:02:46 GMT
Lines: 30

LRFORTNEY@hep.phy.duke.edu (L. R. Fortney) wrote:
>
> In article <8A07040.1DC80001F8.uuout@xonxoff.com>,
> charles.hersey@xonxoff.com (CHARLES HERSEY) wrote:
> 
> > Here in the Laurentian mountains, we welcome the august visit of 
> > migrating monarch butterflys. They winter over in Mexico, I believe. 
> > The only nectar they seem to like is that of the milk weed plant. The 
> > two together are a sight.
> > 
> > The milkweed grows best in vacant lots, and abandoned fields. In my 
> > case it grows where lawn meets bush.
> 
>    Here in NC, I occasionally get flights of monarchs coming down to fall
> asters and chrys.  I think the secret is a large drift of the same color. 
> Maybe they need  to see it from far away.  One year I had them falling
> from dots in the sky like leaves dumped from an airplane.
> 
> -- 
> Lloyd Fortney ---Opinions, just opinions---

In Minnesota they seem to like big swaths of Fleece Flower (Polygonium).
At least I think they are Monarchs, could be those darn imposters as well! ;)

On one occassion as I was doing some weeding in a fleece flower bed, there
must have been a cloud of about a hundred around and on me and the flowers.
It was an incredible sight.

Don Kackman  



From okiemom@aol.com Sun Jan  1 21:05:33 EST 1995
Article: 50061 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: okiemom@aol.com (Okie Mom)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: 31 Dec 1994 02:55:28 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 4
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3e32pg$13e@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <LRFORTNEY-3012940911590001@hepmc7.phy.duke.edu>
Reply-To: okiemom@aol.com (Okie Mom)

In Oklahoma I enjoy black swallowtails on parsley and dill.  They come to
these, of course, for purposes of egg-laying.  I also found, to my dismay,
that white cabbage butterflies lay their eggs on water cress, and the
results can be devastating.


From d_swartz@gate.net Sun Jan  1 21:06:35 EST 1995
Article: 49812 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tequesta.gate.net!dffl2-18.gate.net!user
From: d_swartz@gate.net (Debbie DeNeese)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Florida Plant Book?
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 10:21:29 -1812
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <d_swartz-2712941021290001@dffl2-18.gate.net>
References: <3ddioi$jov@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dffl2-18.gate.net

In article <3ddioi$jov@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu>,
afn09697@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu (Amy M. Alexander) wrote:

  > I am looking for a book on Florida (especially North Central Florida) 
  > plants.  Does anyone know of a good one?

With the diversity of plants we have down here, I found that several books
served the purpose better than any one, but the two which went into the
most detail were:

   _Florida Landscape Plants_ (by John V. Watkins and Thomas J. Sheehan)
   published by the University Presses of Florida, Gainesville

   The illustrations are not in color but are of such great detail and with 
   such excellent descriptions I'm using it most for my "wish list"

   _Florida, My Eden_ (by Frederic B. Stresau)
   published by Florida Classics Library, PO Box 1657, Port Salerno, FL 34992

   Many color photos and lots of good info.  Grouped by categories and with
   cultural advice.

I think the only thing I can count on besides weeding will be purchasing
more books to armchair-browse the enormous variety of flora available to
us down here!  These two should get you off to a good start, though.


From nwiley@u.washington.edu Sun Jan  1 21:07:13 EST 1995
Article: 50056 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!hookup!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!homer17.u.washington.edu!nwiley
From: Nicholas Wiley <nwiley@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 12:04:00 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91c.941230120138.29240G-100000@homer17.u.washington.edu>
References: <3daghe$qe6@mark.ucdavis.edu> <3dblf8$p5d@news.sas.ab.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: homer17.u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <3dblf8$p5d@news.sas.ab.ca> 

I agree with Don.  You just need to look harder.  There must be a local 
community extension with such info.  I know of at least one book called 
"Organic Gardening in Colder Climates" but can't remember the author's 
name.  Keep looking and good luck!
Kathleen

On 22 Dec 1994 thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:

> G Mcclelland (fzmcclel@dale.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
> : I live in zone 4-5; does anyone know of a garden book that is not loaded 
> : with subtropical and tender plants.  Sure, I like the Sunset Garden book, 
> : but sorting out the hardy plants is tedious.
> 
> You just have to look harder :-)  I'm in Edmonton, Alberta (zone 3) and 
> there is lots of info available.  Seriously, you should try looking at 
> some regions with colder climates than California and try adapting their 
> suggestions to your climate.
> 
> Don
> 
> 


From csalmanson@delphi.com Sun Jan  1 21:07:19 EST 1995
Article: 50080 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: ettings <csalmanson@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
Date: Sat, 31 DEC 94 12:09:49 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <pQ16IGl.csalmanson@delphi.com>
References: <3daghe$qe6@mark.ucdavis.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com
X-To: G Mcclelland <fzmcclel@dale.ucdavis.edu>

Taylor's book on perennials (widely available) has a wonderful chart in
it, so that you can look up plants by zone, light, color, height, etc.
You might find it helpful as a quick way to filter out the tropical stuff.
Hope this was of help, and Happy New Year.
 
Carol


From dennis_goos@mindlink.bc.ca Sun Jan  1 21:08:48 EST 1995
Article: 50093 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!news.mindlink.net!line41.nwm.mindlink.net!dennis_goos
From: dennis_goos@mindlink.bc.ca (Dennis Goos)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 12:57:37
Organization: MIND LINK! Communications Corp.
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <dennis_goos.24.000CF644@mindlink.bc.ca>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: line41.nwm.mindlink.net
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

In article <pQ16IGl.csalmanson@delphi.com> ettings <csalmanson@delphi.com> writes:
>From: ettings <csalmanson@delphi.com>
>Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
>Date: Sat, 31 DEC 94 12:09:49 -0500

>Taylor's book on perennials (widely available) has a wonderful chart in
>it, so that you can look up plants by zone, light, color, height, etc.
>You might find it helpful as a quick way to filter out the tropical stuff.
>Hope this was of help, and Happy New Year.
> 
>Carol

I'd like to recommend my favorite reference:

           "Ornamental SHRUBS for Canada" by Lawrence C.Sherk and Arthur R. 
Buckley   of the Ornamental Plant Section , Plant Research Institute, Research 
Branch, Canada Department of Agriculture , Ottawa, Ontario,1968.
            I have two copies garnered, from used bkstrs(One from 
Bellingham,Wa.) as a defense against over reaching garden enthusiasts who 
have failed to return earlier copies to my shelves!
           Another useful title might be 'The Annotated Checklist of Woody 
Plants of California, Oregon, and Washington, authored by Dr.E.Mc Clintlock 
and Prof.A.T.Leiser and published by the University of California.,1979.

            BTW, UCDavis has an excellent agricultural page available on the 
Web. 
            Good Luck and Happy New Year to all.

      Dennis



From snowf001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Sun Jan  1 21:08:58 EST 1995
Article: 50070 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!news
From: "snowf001@maroon.tc.umn.edu" <snowf001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
To: nwiley@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <44715.snowf001@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16
Sender: news@news.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: dialup-5-127.gw.umn.edu
X-Popmail-Charset: English
Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 14:33:24 GMT
Lines: 31

On Fri, 30 Dec 1994 12:04:00 -0800, 
Nicholas Wiley  <nwiley@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>I agree with Don.  You just need to look harder.  There must be a local 
>community extension with such info.  I know of at least one book called 
>"Organic Gardening in Colder Climates" but can't remember the author's 
>name.  Keep looking and good luck!
>Kathleen
>
>On 22 Dec 1994 thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
>
>> G Mcclelland (fzmcclel@dale.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
>> : I live in zone 4-5; does anyone know of a garden book that is not loaded 
>> : with subtropical and tender plants.  Sure, I like the Sunset Garden book, 
>> : but sorting out the hardy plants is tedious.
>> 
>> You just have to look harder :-)  I'm in Edmonton, Alberta (zone 3) and 
>> there is lots of info available.  Seriously, you should try looking at 
>> some regions with colder climates than California and try adapting their 
>> suggestions to your climate.
>> 
>> Don
>> 
>> 
>
There is an older, out-of-print book called "Flower Growing in the North" 
that is still quite good.  Intended for zones 3 and 4.  Your public library 
should have scads of info.

John



From allison@halcyon.com Sun Jan  1 21:14:02 EST 1995
Article: 49769 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!uw-beaver!uw-coco!nwnexus!news.halcyon.com!usenet
From: allison@halcyon.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine info sites?
Date: 26 Dec 1994 04:24:54 GMT
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <3dlgim$n4k@news.halcyon.com>
References: <1994Dec22.110558@scivax> <3dku14$jai@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
Reply-To: allison@halcyon.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm0-ip11.halcyon.com
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.07

In <3dku14$jai@newsy.ifm.liu.se>, ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson) writes:
>melnick@stsci.edu (Rita Melnick) writes:
>> Does anyone know of any newsgroups or Web sites that offer
>> information on or discussions of herbal medicines?  Or even herbs in
>> general?

Try the following Web Page from the University of Missouri Botanical Gardens:

http://nearnet.gnn.com/gnn/wic/garden.10.html

+------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
|  @@@@   @@@@       @  @@@@   | I'm Warped, alright.                      |
| @    @ @    @     @  @    @  |                                           |
| @    @  @@       @      @@   | Dan Simpson                               |
| @    @    @@    @     @@     | Bainbridge Island, WA                     |
| @    @ @    @  @     @       |                                           |
|  @@@@   @@@@  @      @@@@@@  | allison@halcyon.com                       |
+------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+



From ceci@lysator.liu.se Sun Jan  1 21:14:10 EST 1995
Article: 49760 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!columba.udac.uu.se!populus.slu.se!news.ifm.liu.se!ceci
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine info sites?
Date: 25 Dec 1994 23:08:20 GMT
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <3dku14$jai@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
References: <1994Dec22.110558@scivax>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rudolf.lysator.liu.se
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #24 (NOV)

melnick@stsci.edu (Rita Melnick) writes:
> Does anyone know of any newsgroups or Web sites that offer
> information on or discussions of herbal medicines?  Or even herbs in
> general?

I have some available for anonymous ftp at FTP.LYSATOR.LIU.SE in
/pub/religion/neopagan/Herbs. Here is a listing of that directory:

/pub/religion/neopagan/Herbs
============================
./General
./General/README
./General/calendar
./General/cherokee_lore
./General/essential_chemicaly
./General/general_lore.gz
./General/heritage_seed
./General/historical_gardens.gz
./General/mail_order_herbs
./General/tools
./General/vision

./Plants
./Plants/README
./Plants/absinthe
./Plants/acorus_calamus
./Plants/agrimonia
./Plants/allium_sativum
./Plants/alstonia
./Plants/angelica
./Plants/astragalus.gz
./Plants/bergamot
./Plants/blackberry
./Plants/crampbark
./Plants/damiana
./Plants/dragons_blood
./Plants/echinacea
./Plants/echinacea_angustifolia
./Plants/fennel
./Plants/galium
./Plants/ginseng
./Plants/gotukola
./Plants/guarana
./Plants/manomin.gz
./Plants/melissa
./Plants/momordica.gz
./Plants/phytolacca_decandra
./Plants/portulacea
./Plants/turnera_diffusa
./Plants/wormwood_poisonous

./Uses
./Uses/README
./Uses/anxiety.gz
./Uses/blood_cleansing_tea
./Uses/curry_recipe
./Uses/deppression_aromatherapy
./Uses/drying_herbs
./Uses/fenugreek
./Uses/flower_essence
./Uses/flying_ointment
./Uses/for_bees
./Uses/for_horses
./Uses/fragrant_oils
./Uses/immunity_herbs.gz
./Uses/impotens
./Uses/incense
./Uses/indigestion
./Uses/liquid_extracts
./Uses/oil_recipes
./Uses/pms
./Uses/pregnancy.gz
./Uses/question_time
./Uses/signature_doctrine.gz
./Uses/two_aphrodisiacs
./Uses/vitamines
./Uses/winemaking

Files ending in ".gz" are compressed using gunzip. If you don't have
gunzip, you can let our ftp-server uncompress the file for you. Simply
state the file name _without_ the extension (.gz) when getting it.

There's also general gardening info in /pub/gardening. If you have
files about herbs that you would like displayed in the lysator
ftp-area, please mail me for submission guidelines.

Regards,
--Ceci
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"The map is not the territory." Alfred Korzybski
===================================================================


From ceci@lysator.liu.se Sun Jan  1 21:15:35 EST 1995
Article: 49760 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!columba.udac.uu.se!populus.slu.se!news.ifm.liu.se!ceci
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine info sites?
Date: 25 Dec 1994 23:08:20 GMT
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <3dku14$jai@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
References: <1994Dec22.110558@scivax>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rudolf.lysator.liu.se
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #24 (NOV)

melnick@stsci.edu (Rita Melnick) writes:
> Does anyone know of any newsgroups or Web sites that offer
> information on or discussions of herbal medicines?  Or even herbs in
> general?

I have some available for anonymous ftp at FTP.LYSATOR.LIU.SE in
/pub/religion/neopagan/Herbs. Here is a listing of that directory:

/pub/religion/neopagan/Herbs
============================
./General
./General/README
./General/calendar
./General/cherokee_lore
./General/essential_chemicaly
./General/general_lore.gz
./General/heritage_seed
./General/historical_gardens.gz
./General/mail_order_herbs
./General/tools
./General/vision

./Plants
./Plants/README
./Plants/absinthe
./Plants/acorus_calamus
./Plants/agrimonia
./Plants/allium_sativum
./Plants/alstonia
./Plants/angelica
./Plants/astragalus.gz
./Plants/bergamot
./Plants/blackberry
./Plants/crampbark
./Plants/damiana
./Plants/dragons_blood
./Plants/echinacea
./Plants/echinacea_angustifolia
./Plants/fennel
./Plants/galium
./Plants/ginseng
./Plants/gotukola
./Plants/guarana
./Plants/manomin.gz
./Plants/melissa
./Plants/momordica.gz
./Plants/phytolacca_decandra
./Plants/portulacea
./Plants/turnera_diffusa
./Plants/wormwood_poisonous

./Uses
./Uses/README
./Uses/anxiety.gz
./Uses/blood_cleansing_tea
./Uses/curry_recipe
./Uses/deppression_aromatherapy
./Uses/drying_herbs
./Uses/fenugreek
./Uses/flower_essence
./Uses/flying_ointment
./Uses/for_bees
./Uses/for_horses
./Uses/fragrant_oils
./Uses/immunity_herbs.gz
./Uses/impotens
./Uses/incense
./Uses/indigestion
./Uses/liquid_extracts
./Uses/oil_recipes
./Uses/pms
./Uses/pregnancy.gz
./Uses/question_time
./Uses/signature_doctrine.gz
./Uses/two_aphrodisiacs
./Uses/vitamines
./Uses/winemaking

Files ending in ".gz" are compressed using gunzip. If you don't have
gunzip, you can let our ftp-server uncompress the file for you. Simply
state the file name _without_ the extension (.gz) when getting it.

There's also general gardening info in /pub/gardening. If you have
files about herbs that you would like displayed in the lysator
ftp-area, please mail me for submission guidelines.

Regards,
--Ceci
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"The map is not the territory." Alfred Korzybski
===================================================================


From ceci@lysator.liu.se Sun Jan  1 21:16:47 EST 1995
Article: 49760 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!columba.udac.uu.se!populus.slu.se!news.ifm.liu.se!ceci
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine info sites?
Date: 25 Dec 1994 23:08:20 GMT
Lines: 92
Message-ID: <3dku14$jai@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
References: <1994Dec22.110558@scivax>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rudolf.lysator.liu.se
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #24 (NOV)

melnick@stsci.edu (Rita Melnick) writes:
> Does anyone know of any newsgroups or Web sites that offer
> information on or discussions of herbal medicines?  Or even herbs in
> general?

I have some available for anonymous ftp at FTP.LYSATOR.LIU.SE in
/pub/religion/neopagan/Herbs. Here is a listing of that directory:

/pub/religion/neopagan/Herbs
============================
./General
./General/README
./General/calendar
./General/cherokee_lore
./General/essential_chemicaly
./General/general_lore.gz
./General/heritage_seed
./General/historical_gardens.gz
./General/mail_order_herbs
./General/tools
./General/vision

./Plants
./Plants/README
./Plants/absinthe
./Plants/acorus_calamus
./Plants/agrimonia
./Plants/allium_sativum
./Plants/alstonia
./Plants/angelica
./Plants/astragalus.gz
./Plants/bergamot
./Plants/blackberry
./Plants/crampbark
./Plants/damiana
./Plants/dragons_blood
./Plants/echinacea
./Plants/echinacea_angustifolia
./Plants/fennel
./Plants/galium
./Plants/ginseng
./Plants/gotukola
./Plants/guarana
./Plants/manomin.gz
./Plants/melissa
./Plants/momordica.gz
./Plants/phytolacca_decandra
./Plants/portulacea
./Plants/turnera_diffusa
./Plants/wormwood_poisonous

./Uses
./Uses/README
./Uses/anxiety.gz
./Uses/blood_cleansing_tea
./Uses/curry_recipe
./Uses/deppression_aromatherapy
./Uses/drying_herbs
./Uses/fenugreek
./Uses/flower_essence
./Uses/flying_ointment
./Uses/for_bees
./Uses/for_horses
./Uses/fragrant_oils
./Uses/immunity_herbs.gz
./Uses/impotens
./Uses/incense
./Uses/indigestion
./Uses/liquid_extracts
./Uses/oil_recipes
./Uses/pms
./Uses/pregnancy.gz
./Uses/question_time
./Uses/signature_doctrine.gz
./Uses/two_aphrodisiacs
./Uses/vitamines
./Uses/winemaking

Files ending in ".gz" are compressed using gunzip. If you don't have
gunzip, you can let our ftp-server uncompress the file for you. Simply
state the file name _without_ the extension (.gz) when getting it.

There's also general gardening info in /pub/gardening. If you have
files about herbs that you would like displayed in the lysator
ftp-area, please mail me for submission guidelines.

Regards,
--Ceci
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"The map is not the territory." Alfred Korzybski
===================================================================


From dressse@ferrari.network.com Sun Jan  1 21:26:43 EST 1995
Article: 50057 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!winternet.com!news2.mr.net!mr.net!msc.edu!network.com!news
From: dressse@ferrari.network.com (Steve Dressse)
Subject: Re: Square Foot Gardens
Message-ID: <D1n4GK.Fw1@network.com>
Sender: news@network.com
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
References: <D1H764.Cr@eskimo.com> <1994Dec28.144207.102@leo.vsla.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 20:19:32 GMT
Lines: 16



There are two other books which I have found useful in this regard:

    60 Minute Gardening by Jeff Ball
    Grow More Vegetables... by John Jeavons

The 'Jeavons' book is subtitled: A Primer on the Biodynamic and French
Intensive Method.  It is extremely useful because of the extensive
charts included which detail plant spacings in the bed, expected yields
per 100 sq ft area, and average annual US consumption of each item.

Jeff Ball's book is also excellent because it helps trim some of the
labor inherent in an intensively managed garden.  He also includes
many charts on plant succession(s) etc.



From sazerb@rmii.com Sun Jan  1 21:26:49 EST 1995
Article: 49774 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!potogold.rmii.com!usenet
From: Steve Zerbe <sazerb@rmii.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: HOME and Garden Channel on Satellite
Date: 26 Dec 1994 07:23:58 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3dlr2e$a9p@potogold.rmii.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip850.rmii.com


 I would like everyone to know that there will be a New Channel on
 Satellite TV come December 30th, 1994.  It's the Home and Garden
 channel.  It is on satellite G-1 Transponder 20.  It appears as
 though they will have a great line-up of shows for those of us who
 garden and putter about the house.

 I thought I should mention it.  The satellite guide I subscribe to
 mentioned last month that the new channel would be available, but
 in January's guide gives no new information and no schedule!

                   Julie


From rob.king@nfe.com Sun Jan  1 21:28:55 EST 1995
Article: 49765 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: GROWING GINSENG
Date: 26 Dec 1994 07:41:05 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 19
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9412260817476064@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

J>William Coleman (colemanw@oasys.dt.navy.mil) wrote:

 >: What is the best source of information about growing and harvesting
 >: Ginseng?

I was given this name last year, but got tooo busy, and never wrote for
info... the catalog costs $2... has anybody done business with:

         Hsu's Ginseng Enterprises, Inc.
         P.O. Box 509
         Wausaw,  WI   54402 -0509

This is supposedly a family business which specializes in Ginseng...
seed & rootlets are available for several species.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From rob.king@nfe.com Sun Jan  1 21:30:35 EST 1995
Article: 49767 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 26 Dec 1994 07:41:12 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 18
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9412260817486068@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

J>>Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
 >>We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
 >>familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
 >>a BIRD book...

A little late for Christmas this year... but the best all-around tree
guide has to be "Trees of North America" by Golden Press.  Color
illustrations are hard to beat.  An excellent value at $4 <6 years ago>

For more detailed work, the Peterson Field Guide Series "Guide to Trees
and Shrubs" would be a good choice... perhaps a little too technically
involved for the novice who wants to key a species mostly from pictures,
tho.  Peterson's is not full-color, either.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From rob.king@nfe.com Sun Jan  1 21:31:00 EST 1995
Article: 49767 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 26 Dec 1994 07:41:12 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 18
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9412260817486068@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

J>>Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
 >>We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
 >>familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
 >>a BIRD book...

A little late for Christmas this year... but the best all-around tree
guide has to be "Trees of North America" by Golden Press.  Color
illustrations are hard to beat.  An excellent value at $4 <6 years ago>

For more detailed work, the Peterson Field Guide Series "Guide to Trees
and Shrubs" would be a good choice... perhaps a little too technically
involved for the novice who wants to key a species mostly from pictures,
tho.  Peterson's is not full-color, either.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov Sun Jan  1 21:31:44 EST 1995
Article: 49823 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!csn!taz.nrcs.usda.gov!ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov!avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov!tom
From: tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 27 Dec 1994 17:49:59 GMT
Organization: USDA/Soil Conservation Service TISD, Fort Collins
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <3dpk47$34u@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov
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John Woodworth (jrwoodworth@mmm.com) writes:
> In article <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan) writes:
> >From: BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan)
> >Subject: TREE BOOK?
> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:48:00 GMT

> >Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
> >We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
> >familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
> >a BIRD book...

> >I want to get him one for Christmas. I haven't had the chance to
> >look at the bookstores yet but thought someone might have an
> >opinion on one. THANKS!

> >Vickie Jernigan
> >jernivl@mail.auburn.edu

<snip>
I couldn't find the original article, so I'm posting followup to this one.

Vickie-

It's too late for Christmas now, but the reference that I use is by 
Michael Dirr, entitled "Manual of Woody landscape Plants, their culture
and Propogation". Actually, I'm not sure of the title, but it is a large,
300 page Green paperback that includes line drawings of distinguishing
characteristics along with a good discussion of how to grow each tree
and their uses. No color pictures, but a good reference.

-Tom
--
----------------/------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Rudnick     | trudnick@ftc.nrcs.usda.gov | When the ship runs out of ocean
Fort Collins,CO | They Might Be Giants - | and the vessel runs aground
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Land's where we know the boat is found.


From tea@vnet.ibm.com Sun Jan  1 21:32:29 EST 1995
Article: 49994 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!aixssc.uk.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!tornews.torolab.ibm.com!news
From: tea@vnet.ibm.com (Tom Atkinson (Toronto, Ontario))
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 29 Dec 1994 15:38:10 GMT
Organization: Vocation: IBM Lab (Toronto) // Avocation: tree grower
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <3dul52$pvm@tornews.torolab.ibm.com>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com> <3dpk47$34u@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>
Reply-To: tea@vnet.ibm.com (Tom Atkinson)
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In <3dpk47$34u@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>, tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick) writes:
>John Woodworth (jrwoodworth@mmm.com) writes:
>> In article <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan) writes:
>> >From: BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan)
>> >Subject: TREE BOOK?
>> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:48:00 GMT
>
>> >Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
>> >We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
>> >familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
>> >a BIRD book...
>
>> >I want to get him one for Christmas. I haven't had the chance to
>> >look at the bookstores yet but thought someone might have an
>> >opinion on one. THANKS!
>
>> >Vickie Jernigan
>> >jernivl@mail.auburn.edu
>
><snip>
>I couldn't find the original article, so I'm posting followup to this one.
>
>Vickie-
>
>It's too late for Christmas now, but the reference that I use is by 
>Michael Dirr, entitled "Manual of Woody landscape Plants, their culture
>and Propogation". Actually, I'm not sure of the title, but it is a large,
>300 page Green paperback that includes line drawings of distinguishing
>characteristics along with a good discussion of how to grow each tree
>and their uses. No color pictures, but a good reference.
>
>-Tom
>--
>----------------/------------------------------------------------------------
>Tom Rudnick     | trudnick@ftc.nrcs.usda.gov | When the ship runs out of ocean
>Fort Collins,CO | They Might Be Giants - | and the vessel runs aground
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Land's where we know the boat is found.


From: Tom Atkinson (Toronto)

 "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants", by Michael A. Dirr.

 Published by Stipes Publishing Co.,
                    10-12 Chester St.,
                     Champaign, Illinois 61820.

 This book is a <must> if you are serious about vines, shrubs, trees.


From nwiley@u.washington.edu Sun Jan  1 21:32:59 EST 1995
Article: 50018 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!homer13.u.washington.edu!nwiley
From: Nicholas Wiley <nwiley@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 12:54:19 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91c.941230124908.28891C-100000@homer13.u.washington.edu>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com>
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In-Reply-To: <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com> 

Eyewitness Handbooks puts out a book called, ingeniusly, "Trees", it is a 
self-proclaimed "visual guide to more than 500 species of trees from 
around the world."  I would recommend it, as it will help with 
identification.  For cultural requirements, you can ask at your local 
nursery to read their copy of Michael Dirr's "Manual of Woody Landscape 
Plants" (much too huge to be practical for the average home owner).  The 
Eyewitness Book doesn't have everything but it probably has a great 
variety (therefore you are likely to run into something at least closely 
related to what you find in your garden) and it has very helpful photos 
and illustrations of each tree.  
Sorry I am too late for Christmas.

Have fun!
Kathleen

On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, John Woodworth wrote:

> In article <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan) writes:
> >From: BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan)
> >Subject: TREE BOOK?
> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:48:00 GMT
> 
> >Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
> >We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
> >familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
> >a BIRD book...
> 
> >I want to get him one for Christmas. I haven't had the chance to
> >look at the bookstores yet but thought someone might have an
> >opinion on one. THANKS!
> 
> >Vickie Jernigan
> >jernivl@mail.auburn.edu
> 
> Vickie,
> 
> There's a couple by the Audubon Society for native trees. There's an 
> eastern and western version. It's small enough to fit in a pocket if you go 
> hiking and want to identify trees. I'd stay away from the Ortho books you see 
> in discount stores and the more pedestrain nurseries. They have pretty 
> pictures but the information is incomplete and often untrue.
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> "Pro meo lingua graeca est!"
> 
> 


From jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Sun Jan  1 21:33:40 EST 1995
Article: 50131 of rec.gardens
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From: jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (James Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 1 Jan 1995 10:47:02 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
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Message-ID: <3e6ipm$ifi@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com> <Pine.A32.3.91c.941230124908.28891C-100000@homer13.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.scri.fsu.edu
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Nicholas Wiley (nwiley@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Eyewitness Handbooks puts out a book called, ingeniusly, "Trees", it is a 
: self-proclaimed "visual guide to more than 500 species of trees from 
: around the world."  I would recommend it, as it will help with 
: identification.  For cultural requirements, you can ask at your local 
: nursery to read their copy of Michael Dirr's "Manual of Woody Landscape 
: Plants" (much too huge to be practical for the average home owner).  The 
: Eyewitness Book doesn't have everything but it probably has a great 
: variety (therefore you are likely to run into something at least closely 
: related to what you find in your garden) and it has very helpful photos 
: and illustrations of each tree.  
: Sorry I am too late for Christmas.

: Have fun!
: Kathleen

: On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, John Woodworth wrote:

: > In article <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan) writes:
: > >From: BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan)
: > >Subject: TREE BOOK?
: > >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:48:00 GMT
: > 
: > >Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
: > >We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
: > >familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
: > >a BIRD book...
: > 
: > >I want to get him one for Christmas. I haven't had the chance to
: > >look at the bookstores yet but thought someone might have an
: > >opinion on one. THANKS!
: > 
: > >Vickie Jernigan
: > >jernivl@mail.auburn.edu
I swear by "A Field guide to Trees and Shrubs" by Petrides.  It's in
the Petersen field guide series.  There's one for east and west US.
Also have The Audubon Socienty Guide, which is OK, but I'm less
partial to the actual photos as a primary means of ID.  There's too
muc variability out there.  Petrides' diagramatic style of
illustration seems more efficient for me.

Then, check your University Press.  Most states have local guides to
trees found in that state.  
-- 
Jim Lewis - jkl2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
 . . . Without ecology . . . there would _be_ no economy.



From tea@vnet.ibm.com Sun Jan  1 21:34:04 EST 1995
Article: 49994 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!aixssc.uk.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!tornews.torolab.ibm.com!news
From: tea@vnet.ibm.com (Tom Atkinson (Toronto, Ontario))
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 29 Dec 1994 15:38:10 GMT
Organization: Vocation: IBM Lab (Toronto) // Avocation: tree grower
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <3dul52$pvm@tornews.torolab.ibm.com>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com> <3dpk47$34u@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>
Reply-To: tea@vnet.ibm.com (Tom Atkinson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: atkinson.torolab.ibm.com
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.04

In <3dpk47$34u@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>, tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick) writes:
>John Woodworth (jrwoodworth@mmm.com) writes:
>> In article <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan) writes:
>> >From: BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan)
>> >Subject: TREE BOOK?
>> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:48:00 GMT
>
>> >Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
>> >We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
>> >familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
>> >a BIRD book...
>
>> >I want to get him one for Christmas. I haven't had the chance to
>> >look at the bookstores yet but thought someone might have an
>> >opinion on one. THANKS!
>
>> >Vickie Jernigan
>> >jernivl@mail.auburn.edu
>
><snip>
>I couldn't find the original article, so I'm posting followup to this one.
>
>Vickie-
>
>It's too late for Christmas now, but the reference that I use is by 
>Michael Dirr, entitled "Manual of Woody landscape Plants, their culture
>and Propogation". Actually, I'm not sure of the title, but it is a large,
>300 page Green paperback that includes line drawings of distinguishing
>characteristics along with a good discussion of how to grow each tree
>and their uses. No color pictures, but a good reference.
>
>-Tom
>--
>----------------/------------------------------------------------------------
>Tom Rudnick     | trudnick@ftc.nrcs.usda.gov | When the ship runs out of ocean
>Fort Collins,CO | They Might Be Giants - | and the vessel runs aground
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Land's where we know the boat is found.


From: Tom Atkinson (Toronto)

 "Manual of Woody Landscape Plants", by Michael A. Dirr.

 Published by Stipes Publishing Co.,
                    10-12 Chester St.,
                     Champaign, Illinois 61820.

 This book is a <must> if you are serious about vines, shrubs, trees.


From tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov Sun Jan  1 21:34:07 EST 1995
Article: 49823 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!csn!taz.nrcs.usda.gov!ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov!avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov!tom
From: tom@avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov (Tom Rudnick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 27 Dec 1994 17:49:59 GMT
Organization: USDA/Soil Conservation Service TISD, Fort Collins
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <3dpk47$34u@ftcnews.nrcs.usda.gov>
References: <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> <jrwoodworth.314.000C446C@mmm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: avatar.ftc.nrcs.usda.gov
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John Woodworth (jrwoodworth@mmm.com) writes:
> In article <19941219164837BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan) writes:
> >From: BO674VJ@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU (Vickie L. Jernigan)
> >Subject: TREE BOOK?
> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:48:00 GMT

> >Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
> >We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
> >familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
> >a BIRD book...

> >I want to get him one for Christmas. I haven't had the chance to
> >look at the bookstores yet but thought someone might have an
> >opinion on one. THANKS!

> >Vickie Jernigan
> >jernivl@mail.auburn.edu

<snip>
I couldn't find the original article, so I'm posting followup to this one.

Vickie-

It's too late for Christmas now, but the reference that I use is by 
Michael Dirr, entitled "Manual of Woody landscape Plants, their culture
and Propogation". Actually, I'm not sure of the title, but it is a large,
300 page Green paperback that includes line drawings of distinguishing
characteristics along with a good discussion of how to grow each tree
and their uses. No color pictures, but a good reference.

-Tom
--
----------------/------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Rudnick     | trudnick@ftc.nrcs.usda.gov | When the ship runs out of ocean
Fort Collins,CO | They Might Be Giants - | and the vessel runs aground
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| Land's where we know the boat is found.


From markj@hookup.net Sun Jan  1 21:34:10 EST 1995
Article: 49813 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!relay.tor.hookup.net!markj.tor.hookup.net!user
From: markj@hookup.net (Mark J. Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 10:31:59 -0500
Organization: HookUp Communication Corporation, Oakville, Ontario, CANADA
Lines: 29
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References: <9412260817486068@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: markj.tor.hookup.net

In article <9412260817486068@nfe.com>, rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King) wrote:

> J>>Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
>  >>We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
>  >>familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
>  >>a BIRD book...
> 
> A little late for Christmas this year... but the best all-around tree
> guide has to be "Trees of North America" by Golden Press.  Color
> illustrations are hard to beat.  An excellent value at $4 <6 years ago>
> 
> For more detailed work, the Peterson Field Guide Series "Guide to Trees
> and Shrubs" would be a good choice... perhaps a little too technically
> involved for the novice who wants to key a species mostly from pictures,
> tho.  Peterson's is not full-color, either.
> 
> Rob.
> 
> ---
>  * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----

The best 'World' book is Hugh Johnson's Encylopedia of Trees. Yes this is
the same Hugh Johnson who writes on wine. My copy is published by Gallery
Books.

A delightful book is A Natural History of Trees of Eastern and Central
North America by Donald Culross Peattie originally published in 1948 and
republished by Houghton Mifflin. The social and economic history of trees.
I understand that there is alsoone for western North America.


From rob.king@nfe.com Sun Jan  1 21:34:16 EST 1995
Article: 49767 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: TREE BOOK?
Date: 26 Dec 1994 07:41:12 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 18
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9412260817486068@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

J>>Can anyone give me any ideas for a "TREE" book?
 >>We have moved to a new house and have several trees that aren't
 >>familar to us. My husband said that he wanted a "TREE" book, like
 >>a BIRD book...

A little late for Christmas this year... but the best all-around tree
guide has to be "Trees of North America" by Golden Press.  Color
illustrations are hard to beat.  An excellent value at $4 <6 years ago>

For more detailed work, the Peterson Field Guide Series "Guide to Trees
and Shrubs" would be a good choice... perhaps a little too technically
involved for the novice who wants to key a species mostly from pictures,
tho.  Peterson's is not full-color, either.

Rob.

---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu Sun Jan  1 21:35:23 EST 1995
Article: 49798 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!gopher.cs.uofs.edu!jaguar.uofs.edu!wallacec1
From: wallacec1@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfy Gardeners
Date: 26 Dec 94 17:50:03 EST
Organization: University of Scranton
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <1994Dec26.175003.1@jaguar.uofs.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jaguar.cs.uofs.edu

Brian,
You already know my list, really--the butterflies really seem to prefer
my white coneflower to my purple, and, of course, love the buddleia--
both white and purple.  They also hang out around the balsam, and I've seen
a few actually looking like they were napping on my Abraham Darby rose.
(For anyone else who is following this, I'm in zone 5 near Scranton,
PA, bit the garden seems somewhat sheltered--maybe a zone 6 microclimate?
I picked pansies today--the day after Christmas!!!
Carol


From ppdm0051@interramp.com Sun Jan  1 21:36:58 EST 1995
Article: 49816 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet
From: advanced digital networks <ppdm0051@interramp.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need tree catalog !
Date: 27 Dec 1994 16:48:00 GMT
Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
Lines: 17
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References: <D0I1Ln.46J@rex.uokhsc.edu> <3d5bml$qua@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip84.new-york.ny.interramp.com

> Frank Concannon. (frank@rex.re.uokhsc.edu) wrote:
> : Could someone please post address for a reliable mail-order supplier of
> : trees.
> 
> A good source of unusual as well as the common is Woodlanders.
> They have a good selection of interesting natives as well as non-natives.
> There Oak selection (as one example) is quite good.
> 
>     Woodlanders
>     1128 Colleton Ave.
>     Aiken, SC 29801
>     PH/FAX (803) 648-7522
> 
>     descriptive (well done) catalog $2.00
> 
> Harold



From ppdm0051@interramp.com Sun Jan  1 21:37:05 EST 1995
Article: 49819 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet
From: advanced digital networks <ppdm0051@interramp.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need tree catalog !
Date: 27 Dec 1994 16:51:13 GMT
Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
Lines: 17
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References: <D0I1Ln.46J@rex.uokhsc.edu> <3d5bml$qua@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip84.new-york.ny.interramp.com

> Frank Concannon. (frank@rex.re.uokhsc.edu) wrote:
> : Could someone please post address for a reliable mail-order supplier of
> : trees.
> 
> A good source of unusual as well as the common is Woodlanders.
> They have a good selection of interesting natives as well as non-natives.
> There Oak selection (as one example) is quite good.
> 
>     Woodlanders
>     1128 Colleton Ave.
>     Aiken, SC 29801
>     PH/FAX (803) 648-7522
> 
>     descriptive (well done) catalog $2.00
> 
> Harold
Another good source for trees is MUSSER NURSERIES in Penna.


From josh@hand.timeinc.com Sun Jan  1 21:37:44 EST 1995
Article: 49840 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!alterdial.uu.net!not-for-mail
From: Josh Hartmann <josh@hand.timeinc.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: ANNOUNCE: New in the Virtual Garden
Date: 27 Dec 1994 17:11:08 GMT
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3dphrc$rl7@alterdial.UU.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.171.143.112

There have been several major additions recently to the Virtual
Garden, Time Life's web site devoted to gardening, located at:
http://www.timeinc.com/vg

Approximately 350 roses have been added to the Complete Gardener's
Encyclopedia (http://www.timeinc.com/vg/TimeLife/CG/vg-search.html).
There are now more than 800 plants in the encyclopedia.

A new section called the Garden Bookshelf offers selected excerpts
>from  some of the better books on horticulture, including
The American Gardener's Book of Bulbs by Judy Glattstein.
(http://www.timeinc.com/vg/Bookshelf/index.html)

And the January issue of Sunset magazine has been added to the
Magazine Rack. The Magazine Rack contains the gardening content
of Southern Living and Sunset magazines plus Homeground, a
quarterly newsletter by New Jersey gardener Allen Lacy. Links
to the Magazine Rack are at http://www.timeinc.com/vg

-Josh Hartmann
Time Life Inc.
josh@hand.timeinc.com


From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Jan  1 21:39:31 EST 1995
Article: 49934 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Landscape Design Software Suggestion
Date: 29 Dec 1994 13:59:59 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3dufcv$kpq@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
References: <3dqurr$68e@freeside.fc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

LandDesigner for Windows from Green Thumb Software should fill the bill.  
Versatile and easy to use.

Dave Zenz (dzenz@freeside.fc.net) wrote:
: I'm looking for a good landscape design program to help out with the
: design of my new backyard. I've seen programs ranging in price from
: US$10 to to $50 in the local software store. Anyone hava any 
: experience with this type of program? 

: Thanks,

: Dave Z.

--
Karen Fletcher                                      fletcher@prairienet.org
                                                   fletcher@sunsite.unc.edu
===========================================================================
The Garden Gate at SunSITE  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm


From brian@iquest.net Sun Jan  1 21:40:41 EST 1995
Article: 50001 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!dorite!news
From: brian@iquest.net (brian)
Subject: Free Seed Catalogs
Message-ID: <D1J38t.DHt@dorite.use.com>
Sender: news@dorite.use.com (News Admin)
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  Where to get FREE Seed and Garden Catalogs
  ==========================================
  
  Seymour's Selected Seeds         Totally Tomatoes
  Dept 41, PO Box 1346             Dept 22, PO Box 1626
  Sussex, VA  23884-0346           Augusta, GA  30903

  Vermont Bean Seed Co.            R.H. Shumway Seedsman
  71 Garden Ln.                    PO Box 1-NC
  Fair Haven, VT  05743            Graniteville, SC  29829
                                   (803)663-9771

  Park Seed Co.                    Peaceable Kingdom School
  Cokesbury Rd, PO Box 46          PO Box 2209
  Greenwood, SC  29648-0046        Grass Valley, CA  95945
  (800)845-3369                    (916)272-4769
                                    
  Burpee Seed Company              Bountiful Gardens
  PO Box 5114                      18001 Shafer Ranch Rd.
  Warminster, PA  18974-4818       Willits, CA  95490
  (800)888-1447                    (707)459-6410

  Abundant Life Seed Foundation    The Cooks Garden
  PO Box 772                       PO Box 53528
  Port Townsend, WA  98368         Londonderry, VT  05148
  (206)385-5660                    (802)824-3400

  De Giorgi Seed Co.               Filaree Productions
  6011 N St.                       RR 2 Box 162
  Omaha, NE  68117                 Okanogan, WA  98840
  (402)731-3901                    (509)422-6940
  
  Garden City Seeds                Johnny's Selected Seeds
  1324 Red Crow Rd.                310 Foss Hill Rd - Dept 202
  Victor, MT  59875                Albion, ME  04910-9731
  (406)961-4837                    (207)437-4301

  Nichols Garden Nursery           Pinetree Garden Seeds
  1190 N. Pacific Highway          PO Box 300 Route 100
  Albany, OR  97321                New Gloucester, ME  04260
  (503)928-9280                    (207)926-3400
                                
  Ronniger's Seed Potatoes         Seeds of Change
  Star Route 80                    PO Box 15700
  Moyie Springs, ID  83845         Santa Fe, NM  87506
                                   (505)983-8956

  Shepard's Garden Seeds           Stokes Seeds Inc.
  30 Irene St.                     Box 548
  Torrington, CT  06793            Buffalo, NY  14240
  (408)335-6910                    (905)688-4300

  Tomato Growers Supply            Gardener's Supply Company
  PO Box 2237                      Dept COG15 - 128 Intervale Rd
  Ft. Myers, FL  33902             Burlington, VT  05401-2850
  (813)7681119                     (802)863-1700

  Worm's Way                       Peaceful Valley Farm Supply
  3151 S. Highway 446              PO Box 2209 #OG
  Bloomington, IN  47401           Grass Valley, CA  95945
  (800)274-9676                    (916)272-4769

  Brittingham Plant Farms          J.W. Jung Seed Co.
  Dept OG25 - PO Box 2538          Box A3645
  Salisbury, MD  21802             Randolph, WI  53957
  (410)749-5153


I got most of these from the January 1995 issue of Organic Gardening.



From bheising@charlie.usd.edu Sun Jan  1 21:41:22 EST 1995
Article: 49889 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.ksu.ksu.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!sunfish!charlie.usd.edu!BHEISING
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Austrees
Message-ID: <D1JFCv.JGD@sunfish.usd.edu>
From: bheising@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 20:24:31 GMT
Reply-To: bheising@charlie.usd.edu
Sender: news@sunfish.usd.edu
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I live in Vermillion, SD, zone 4.  I would like to hear from anyone who has had
experience growing Austrees.  These are supposedly sterile male clones of Salix
Matsudana X alba, and are sold by Rocky Mountain Austree in Colorad Springs,
CO.  I would like to know if they are reliably winter hardy in similar
climates, and if they are likely to get out of control and become a threat to
native species.  I am considering planting some for bank stabilization along
the Vermillion River, whose water level fluctuates a great deal over the course
of a year.

Thank you for any advice you can give.

Barbara Heisinger


From bbeer@u.washington.edu Sun Jan  1 21:42:22 EST 1995
Article: 49972 of rec.gardens
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From: bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds Catalogue - Address
Date: 30 Dec 1994 02:52:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
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Message-ID: <3dvskh$cl5@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: saul2.u.washington.edu


Chiltern Seeds
Bortree Stile
Ulverston
Cumbria
LA12 7PB
ENGLAND

Phone:  (01299) 581137
Fax:	(01229) 584549




From rlyon@cix.compulink.co.uk Sun Jan  1 21:42:29 EST 1995
Article: 49996 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!cix.compulink.co.uk!usenet
From: rlyon@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Richard Lyon")
Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds Catalogue, 1995
Message-ID: <D1Mos3.3q4@cix.compulink.co.uk>
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I agree with all you say about the Chiltern Seeds catalogue - it is by 
far and away the most comprehensive UK catalogue and invariably much 
cheaper than seedsmen like T&M
I have just received my copy and my only complaint is that I would like 
to get it a little earlier in the year so I can sow some of the seeds in 
October to get the full benefit of the autumn and winter to break 
dormancy :-)

Richard


From clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk Sun Jan  1 21:42:41 EST 1995
Article: 50143 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk (Clarke Brunt)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!demon!brunt.demon.co.uk!clarke
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Reply-To: Clarke Brunt <clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds Catalogue, 1995
References: <3dt2hs$gfn@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
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In Article <3dt2hs$gfn@nntp1.u.washington.edu> Bob Beer writes:
>I just got my Chiltern's catalogue in the mail yesterday -- lots of neat
>new stuff.

I agree. I haven't waded through mine yet, but it is my favourite catalog.
I estimate that they list 4000-5000 items - no pictures at all, but good
descriptions.

I bet the companies who do include pictures find that they never sell any
of the un-pictured items. At least with Chiltern, all the items get a fair
chance.

Chiltern are in the UK, but will take orders from abroad. They take credit
cards, and you can order by phone or fax. Let me know if you want the
address.

-- 
Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk)


From clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk Sun Jan  1 21:43:14 EST 1995
Article: 50143 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk (Clarke Brunt)
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!demon!brunt.demon.co.uk!clarke
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Reply-To: Clarke Brunt <clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds Catalogue, 1995
References: <3dt2hs$gfn@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
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In Article <3dt2hs$gfn@nntp1.u.washington.edu> Bob Beer writes:
>I just got my Chiltern's catalogue in the mail yesterday -- lots of neat
>new stuff.

I agree. I haven't waded through mine yet, but it is my favourite catalog.
I estimate that they list 4000-5000 items - no pictures at all, but good
descriptions.

I bet the companies who do include pictures find that they never sell any
of the un-pictured items. At least with Chiltern, all the items get a fair
chance.

Chiltern are in the UK, but will take orders from abroad. They take credit
cards, and you can order by phone or fax. Let me know if you want the
address.

-- 
Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk)


From lucas@cg-atla.UUCP Sun Jan  1 21:43:22 EST 1995
Article: 49964 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news3.near.net!noc.near.net!ray.com!news.ray.com!swlvx2!cg-atla!lucas
From: lucas@cg-atla.UUCP (Dick Lucas)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: "Worms Eat My Garbage"
Keywords: worms garbage vermiculture
Message-ID: <10726@cg-atla.UUCP>
Date: 29 Dec 94 17:01:22 GMT
Organization: Agfa Compugraphic Division, Wilmington, Mass. USA
Lines: 8


Hi:  Does anyone know of a source for the book "Worms Eat My Garbage" by
Mary Appelhof?  My bookstore tells me it was published in 1982, is out of
print, and can't be ordered.  I'm not prepared to accept that.  Thanks in
advance for any pointers.

Dick Lucas   lucas@cg-atla.agfa.com



From didi@mis.duke.edu Sun Jan  1 21:43:28 EST 1995
Article: 49962 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!mis2ddp.mis.duke.edu!didi
From: didi@mis.duke.edu (Deborah Pearce)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "Worms Eat My Garbage"
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 23:23:02 GMT
Organization: Duke University
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In article <10726@cg-atla.UUCP> lucas@cg-atla.UUCP (Dick Lucas) writes:


>Hi:  Does anyone know of a source for the book "Worms Eat My Garbage" by
>Mary Appelhof?  My bookstore tells me it was published in 1982, is out of
>print, and can't be ordered.  I'm not prepared to accept that.  Thanks in
>advance for any pointers.

>Dick Lucas   lucas@cg-atla.agfa.com

Locate a used book store in your area.  Almost all subscribe to a central 
listing service which lists books available in the used book market, 
recommended prices, and central distributors for the used book market.  It 
will probably be found there, and can be ordered for you.
Didi



From uplink@access3.digex.net Sun Jan  1 21:44:01 EST 1995
Article: 49986 of rec.gardens
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From: uplink@access3.digex.net (PVTS)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "Worms Eat My Garbage"
Date: 30 Dec 1994 00:11:49 -0500
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Keywords: worms garbage vermiculture

This book is available from Gardener's Supply Company at 802 863 1700.
Mail address is 128 Intervale Rd.  Burlington, VT 05401


From jconybea@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Sun Jan  1 21:44:51 EST 1995
Article: 49967 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!blue.weeg.uiowa.edu!blue.weeg.uiowa.edu!jconybea
From: "J. Conybeare" <jconybea@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: The Catalogs are Coming!
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 16:00:58 -0600
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
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Distribution: world
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Greetings from Southeast Iowa (zone 5)!

Right about now the catalogs that are most important for planning and
planting my garden in zone 5, southeast Iowa are arriving--e.g., White
Flower and Pinetree, which have both just arrived.  It seems too early
this year--does it seem so to anyone else?  I've barely packed up from
last summer, which seemed to extend right into late November.  I won't be
ready to even LOOK at my catalogs for another month.  And what with my
recent initiation into "cybergardening," time is even more scarce!! 

Does anyone know what I mean? 



From ledwards@crl.com Sun Jan  1 21:44:58 EST 1995
Article: 49977 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: ledwards@crl.com (Lynn Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: The Catalogs are Coming!
Date: 29 Dec 1994 16:45:05 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access	(415) 705-6060  [Login: guest]
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X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

J. Conybeare (jconybea@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote:
: Greetings from Southeast Iowa (zone 5)!

: Right about now the catalogs that are most important for planning and
: planting my garden in zone 5, southeast Iowa are arriving--e.g., White
: Flower and Pinetree, which have both just arrived.  It seems too early
: this year--does it seem so to anyone else?  I've barely packed up from
: last summer, which seemed to extend right into late November.  I won't be
: ready to even LOOK at my catalogs for another month.  And what with my
: recent initiation into "cybergardening," time is even more scarce!! 

Actually, we have the opposite problem here in northern california (Zone 
9).  The average last frost date is February 15.  Many of the plants are 
started indoors before that, plus there is time needed to compare 
catalogs, order the seeds, and wait for them to arrive.  December is just 
about right fro catalogs - and frankly, the ones that arrive in January 
are at a disadvantage because I've already ordered elsewhere.

I would think that the seed companies would realize the difference in 
zones and mail the catalogs accordingly.  

---Lynn Edwards



From jsb5w@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU Sun Jan  1 21:45:01 EST 1995
Article: 50034 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU!jsb5w
From: jsb5w@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU (Jacqueline S. Biscardi)
Subject: Re: The Catalogs are Coming!
Message-ID: <D1MtwB.6HC@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: uva
References: <Pine.A32.3.91.941229154939.106802A-100000@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 16:31:23 GMT
Lines: 11

Hello from Virginia (zone 7)!  I was thrilled to get my
catalogs (Park, White Flower, Wayside) even though I just
(finally) got done mulching everybody a few weeks ago.  Right
now the temperatres have been in the 50's (and 60's!) but
colder weather is on the way.  I miss my garden already, but
yes, it does seem a tad early to be getting these catalogs...at
least let my credit cards recover from Christmas before luring
me with David Austin roses, astilbe (oooh...gonna put in that
shade garden this year!), etc, etc...

Jacquie


From dr@panix.com Sun Jan  1 21:45:12 EST 1995
Article: 50013 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!not-for-mail
From: dr@panix.com (Dillon Read)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: gardens list
Date: 30 Dec 1994 14:27:09 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
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NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Sorry about the empty post. Idon't do this too often. I wonder if other 
people have been receiving their GARDENS-L mailings. I subscribe to the 
list in digest form and haven't received any at all this week. Am I the 
problem or is the list down?
Rita 
-- 
dr@panix.com


From sazerb@rmii.com Sun Jan  1 21:45:19 EST 1995
Article: 50119 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!potogold.rmii.com!usenet
From: Steve Zerbe <sazerb@rmii.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Home & Gardening Cable TV
Date: 1 Jan 1995 04:30:54 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc.
Lines: 8
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> Today was first full day of programming for a new cable TV channel
> named HGTV for home and gardening. Time will tell whether it is
> worth while or not!

  I tried to post something on this before, but accidently canceled
 it...  I've been watching (via dish) this channel all day!

                  Julie Zerbe


From donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca Sun Jan  1 21:46:01 EST 1995
Article: 50081 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!yvr.cyberstore.ca!donna
From: Donna Wilson <donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: WWW Gardening Sites? Info. request.
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 09:12:36 -0800
Organization: Cyberstore Systems
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Some time ago I found -- but wasn't smart enough to "bookmark" a wonderful
gardening web site.  It was in the US and -- if memory serves at all
-- was maintained by a community based organization (i.e. not a botanical
garden or Time-Warner's Virtual Garden).  Would really appreciate your
taking the time to post (or e-mail) your favourite WWW gardening sites.
 Thanks in advance.

ps ... it's been an unusually warm winter here in southern BC.  Most
of the little spring bulbs are up and shivering bravely in today's
sub-zero temperatures.


-------------------------- HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL ------------------------
Donna Wilson                                         donna@cyberstore.ca
Cyberstore Systems Inc.
Voice:  604-482-3400        Fax: 604-482-3433        Modem: 604-482-3444



From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Jan  1 21:46:35 EST 1995
Article: 50101 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW Gardening Sites? Info. request.
Date: 1 Jan 1995 00:05:53 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 22
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NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Donna Wilson (donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca) wrote:
: Some time ago I found -- but wasn't smart enough to "bookmark" a wonderful
: gardening web site.  It was in the US and -- if memory serves at all
: -- was maintained by a community based organization (i.e. not a botanical
: garden or Time-Warner's Virtual Garden).  Would really appreciate your
: taking the time to post (or e-mail) your favourite WWW gardening sites.
:  Thanks in advance.

Gee, I hope it was The Garden Gate on Prairienet ;-)  (It's modest author 
below.)  I hate to think I've been missing any good sites!

Just now (as of two days ago!) available at SunSITE, too:
    http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm

Lots of new stuff.  Look for official announcement here within the week.

Happy New Year!

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================



From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Jan  1 21:47:13 EST 1995
Article: 50101 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: WWW Gardening Sites? Info. request.
Date: 1 Jan 1995 00:05:53 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <3e4rl1$bqk@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
References: <BK.BW.788893956.1103527590.donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Donna Wilson (donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca) wrote:
: Some time ago I found -- but wasn't smart enough to "bookmark" a wonderful
: gardening web site.  It was in the US and -- if memory serves at all
: -- was maintained by a community based organization (i.e. not a botanical
: garden or Time-Warner's Virtual Garden).  Would really appreciate your
: taking the time to post (or e-mail) your favourite WWW gardening sites.
:  Thanks in advance.

Gee, I hope it was The Garden Gate on Prairienet ;-)  (It's modest author 
below.)  I hate to think I've been missing any good sites!

Just now (as of two days ago!) available at SunSITE, too:
    http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm

Lots of new stuff.  Look for official announcement here within the week.

Happy New Year!

Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================



From dwade@netcom.com Sun Jan  1 21:47:35 EST 1995
Article: 50103 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!NewsWatcher!user
From: dwade@netcom.com (Doug Wade)
Subject: Re: WWW Gardening Sites? Info. request.
Message-ID: <dwade-3112941633090001@192.0.2.1>
Sender: dwade@netcom.com (Doug Wade)
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <BK.BW.788893956.1103527590.donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 00:33:09 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <BK.BW.788893956.1103527590.donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca>, Donna
Wilson <donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca> wrote:

> Some time ago I found -- but wasn't smart enough to "bookmark" a wonderful
> gardening web site.  It was in the US and -- if memory serves at all
> -- was maintained by a community based organization (i.e. not a botanical
> garden or Time-Warner's Virtual Garden).  Would really appreciate your
> taking the time to post (or e-mail) your favourite WWW gardening sites.
>  Thanks in advance.

Here's a good net thing to know about.   http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo
is a big database of web sites.  Open that URL, hit the search button, and
type in garden.  I got 61 hits doing this.

---
Doug Wade / dwade@netcom.com / 10 seconds until warp core breach


From dwade@netcom.com Sun Jan  1 21:47:59 EST 1995
Article: 50103 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!NewsWatcher!user
From: dwade@netcom.com (Doug Wade)
Subject: Re: WWW Gardening Sites? Info. request.
Message-ID: <dwade-3112941633090001@192.0.2.1>
Sender: dwade@netcom.com (Doug Wade)
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <BK.BW.788893956.1103527590.donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 00:33:09 GMT
Lines: 16

In article <BK.BW.788893956.1103527590.donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca>, Donna
Wilson <donna@yvr.cyberstore.ca> wrote:

> Some time ago I found -- but wasn't smart enough to "bookmark" a wonderful
> gardening web site.  It was in the US and -- if memory serves at all
> -- was maintained by a community based organization (i.e. not a botanical
> garden or Time-Warner's Virtual Garden).  Would really appreciate your
> taking the time to post (or e-mail) your favourite WWW gardening sites.
>  Thanks in advance.

Here's a good net thing to know about.   http://akebono.stanford.edu/yahoo
is a big database of web sites.  Open that URL, hit the search button, and
type in garden.  I got 61 hits doing this.

---
Doug Wade / dwade@netcom.com / 10 seconds until warp core breach


From marwood@dgs.dnd.ca Sun Jan  1 21:48:09 EST 1995
Article: 50092 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ub!netfs.dnd.ca!dgs.dnd.ca!marwood
From: marwood@dgs.dnd.ca (Gordon Marwood)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Garden/Landscaping Design Software for Windows
Date: 31 Dec 1994 20:37:29 GMT
Organization: Defence Research Establishment, Ottawa, Ontario
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3e4fe9$6fv@netfs.dnd.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dgs.dnd.ca

I imagine that this is a regularly asked question, though I can't seem
to find a FAQ for this group, so here it is .....

Can anyone provide any recommendations for flower garden/landscaping 
design software for MS Windows, which includes the following 
characteristics.

	o It contains plants suitable for northern climates (southern
	  Canada).  A capability to add one's own plant descriptions
	  would also be very useful.

	o Hardcopies of plans can be produced in colour (e.g. Canon
	  BJC-600) without the use of other major sofware packages.

	o 3-D walk-through (or at least 3-D views can be provided).

Any comments on the general utility of such software would also be
appreciated.

Thank you
Gordon Marwood
Internet: marwood@dgs.dnd.ca



From budkona@netcom.com Sun Jan  1 21:48:59 EST 1995
Article: 50132 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newshost.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!budkona
From: budkona@netcom.com (Bud Kona)
Subject: Re: organic gardening HELP!
Message-ID: <budkonaD1ptr0.6oD@netcom.com>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <D0x0qC.44w@freenet.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 07:21:00 GMT
Lines: 20

Karey Coverstone (bm469@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

: I was wondering if anyone had some good ideas for staking tomatoe
: s.  Last year I trained them up a string, but they got too big and
: unruly.  Any suggestions?

Karey, I've had excellent results with a simple method.  Either when planting
or when plants start to gain a little height, insert a 4-5 ft metal stake (green
ones available all over) and use stretchy green gardening tape to tie base of
plant to stake.  As plants get bigger, tie as needed.  I thin my plants every
1-3 weeks as needed, and this seems to be key in preventing rambling tomatoes
in my small garden.  I nip off many of the lower, non-producing branches and
also, some of the "middle" future producting branches.  I still get plenty of
tomatoes this way.  Actually, I nip off a lot of the extra upward branches.  The
plants also get more air and light this way.  Another helpful hint-- put aluminum foil around plant base when planting so 1 inch is below soil and 1-2 inches
above soil- this prevents cutworm, etc., damage.  I strongly recommend getting
brave and mean and nipping off branches. Good luck.  P.S. This is my brother's
computer, I am visiting and just happened to be checking out this amazing systemand saw gardening, your question and couldn't resist answering your question.
I live near Seattle, WA.  Nancy    



From jimrooke@delphi.com Sun Jan  1 21:52:44 EST 1995
Article: 50148 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: jimrooke@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: What Zone am I?
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 95 19:34:37 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <hC5Z4E9.jimrooke@delphi.com>
References: <3e77i3$20r@carbon.cudenver.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1d.delphi.com
X-To: Lorance A Romero <lromero@carbon.cudenver.edu>

Lorance A Romero <lromero@carbon.cudenver.edu> writes:
 
>Pardon my ignorance but, I see a lot of discussion in this group about 
>being in a particular zone --- is there a particular reference that 
>states what zone Denver is?
>
>According to "Organic Gardening" i'm zone 5.  Is this the generally 
>accepted reference for zones?
 
Zones are numbered in reference to the normally expected low temperature
for the region. The lower the number is, the colder the zone gets. Higher
zone numbers mean a warmer lowest temperature for that area. Most
gardening catalogs have zone charts. checking one, it looks like Denver
might be in either zone 5 or 6!


From london@sunSITE.unc.edu Sun Jan  1 21:52:54 EST 1995
Article: 50150 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!sunSITE!london
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herbal Medicine info sites?
Date: 2 Jan 1995 02:32:39 GMT
Organization: SunSITE, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 452
Message-ID: <3e7ok7$m6e@bigblue.oit.unc.edu>
References: <1994Dec22.110558@scivax> <3dku14$jai@newsy.ifm.liu.se>
NNTP-Posting-Host: calzone.oit.unc.edu

Accessing Herb Information At sunSITE.unc.edu
---------------------------------------------

WAIS (also available via telnet)

World Wide Web (also available via telnet, lynx available for vt100 users)
 URL: http://sunsite.unc.edu

anonymous ftp

ftpmail (Send e-mail to ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu for helpfile on ftpmail usage) 

Gopher (also available via telnet)
URL info:

Type=1+
Name=herbs
Path=1/../.pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbs
Host=president.oit.unc.edu
Port=70
Admin=Jonathan Magid and Chris Colomb, 919-962-6501 <ftpkeeper@sunsite.unc.edu>
ModDate=Wed Nov  2 18:22:26 1994 <19941102182226>
URL: gopher://president.oit.unc.edu:70/11/../.pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbs

telnet
 Login: (follow login instructions for access to WAIS, gopher, ftp, lynx)
 (vt100 works fine)

Navigating FTP Directories and Gopher Menus:
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous ftp:

  ftp sunSITE.unc.edu
  Login: anonymous
  Password: (enter your Internet E-Mail ID)
  cd pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare
  cd herbs

Gopher:

The Worlds of sunSITE
  browse all sunSITE archives
    academic
      medicine
        alternative healthcare
          herbs

For more information contact:

Lawrence London               
london@sunSITE.unc.edu  
Venaura Farm        
Chapel Hill, N.C., U.S.A.

-=||=-

Contents of herb archives - Jan. 1, 1995:

sunSITE.unc.edu
pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare/herbs
-
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov 17 06:47 RFI
drwxr-xr-x  5 london        512 Dec 30 21:19 discussion-groups
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov  7 13:14 faqs
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec  1 21:50 general
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1386 Jan  1 11:51 guide-to-herb-info
-rw-r--r--  1 london      11804 Dec 31 20:54 herb-faqs
drwxr-xr-x  6 london       1024 Dec 31 21:05 herbal-medicine
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       1024 Dec 31 20:55 literature
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 21 23:02 mail-order
drwxr-xr-x  4 london       1024 Oct 23 18:15 mini-databases

RFI:
-rw-r--r--  1 london        974 Nov 17 06:47 tropical-medicinal-plants

discussion-groups:
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec  8 23:06 1993
drwxr-xr-x  3 london        512 Dec 24 00:23 1994
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 30 21:20 alt.folklore.herbs

discussion-groups/1993:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       6147 Jun 16  1993 afh.001.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3651 Jun 16  1993 afh.002.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      24193 Jun 16  1993 afh.003.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      47306 Jun 16  1993 afh.004.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      33677 Jun 19  1993 afh.005.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     301043 Aug  7  1993 afh.006.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      94493 Sep  2  1993 afh.007.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      72147 Sep 27  1993 afh.008.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     180806 Oct 31  1993 afh.009.gz

discussion-groups/1994:
-rw-r--r--  1 london     525440 Dec  8 19:36 Alt.folklore.herbs.1.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 london      22428 Dec 13 21:40 Alt.folklore.herbs.2
-rw-r--r--  1 london     403273 Dec 24 00:10 Alt.folklore.herbs.3
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec  8 23:07 archives

discussion-groups/1994/archives:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     503978 May  3  1994 afh.Feb-May1994.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3050 Feb 23  1994 afh.Feb1994.2.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      56913 Feb 23  1994 afh.Feb1994.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     456607 Feb  9  1994 afh.Jan1994.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 london     383105 Oct 20 11:58 afh.Jun-Oct1994.gz

discussion-groups/alt.folklore.herbs:
-rw-r--r--  1 london     505097 Jan  1 11:26 Alt.folklore.herbs.3

faqs:
-rw-r--r--  1 london     121716 Oct 23 19:29 Herbs.Faq
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     125004 Mar  3  1994 herb-faq.new
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3226 Nov  7 13:19 herbs-for-poison-ivy.faq
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     121716 Feb 17  1994 herbs.FAQ
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      46722 Feb 17  1994 herbs.resource-list
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      43918 Mar 10  1994 medherbs.faqinfo

general:
-rw-r--r--  1 london       6728 Oct 21 21:36 Herbal-Apprenticeships.1995
-rw-r--r--  1 london       7177 Oct 27 21:52 Herbalists-Apprenticeship
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1546 Nov 20 20:31 Indian-herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london      21226 Oct 23 14:21 Wildcrafted.Herbal.Products
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2270 Apr 10  1994 dream-pillow.ingredients
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2078 Nov  7 21:25 free-radical-scavenger-herb-tea
-rw-r--r--  1 london      26657 Nov  7 21:27 herb-teas.possible-toxicity
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1337 Nov  7 19:28 herbal-insect-repellent
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london        644 Apr 15  1994 herbal-mothballs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1050 Dec  1 21:50 herbs-as-anti-depressants
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1147 Nov  8 10:24 preserving-basil-parsley
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1464 Oct 23 19:29 preserving.herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3969 Oct 23 19:33 tips-on-growing

herbal-medicine:
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov  6 10:03 Garden-Pharmacy
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov  6 22:37 Herb-Research-Foundation
-rw-r--r--  1 london        610 Dec 23 14:12 Medical-Mycology-Society-of-New-York
lrwxrwxrwx  1 london         58 Dec 29 21:51 Southwest-School-of-Botanical-Medicine -> /home8/users/london/althealth/SW-School-Botanical-Medicine
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1872 Dec  4 21:01 St.Johns.Wort
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1128 Nov 27 17:43 echinacea-info-pointer
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1830 Nov 26 18:29 echinacea.extract-preparation
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 31 21:05 general
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1536 Nov  2 18:03 hen-of-the-woods.mushroom
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3401 Dec 24 00:45 herbs-for-asthma
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8860 Oct 27 21:47 herbs-for-nausea
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2965 Nov  6 11:31 herbs-for-poison-ivy
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2618 Apr 12  1994 kombucha
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Nov 25 18:40 literature
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5737 Oct 17 10:08 ma-huang
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1198 Nov 25 00:46 medicinal-herbs.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1241 Jan 12  1994 mha.asthma.treatment
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1147 Jan  3  1994 mha.gotu-kola
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london        691 Feb  2  1994 mha.herbs.for.bronchitis
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      14994 May 15  1994 oriental-medicine.faq
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3535 Oct 12 11:19 umbelliferaes.warning

herbal-medicine/Garden-Pharmacy:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1446 Mar 20  1994 chamomile.German
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1946 Mar 20  1994 echinacea
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2262 Mar 20  1994 feverfew
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1551 Mar 20  1994 valerian

herbal-medicine/Herb-Research-Foundation:
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2382 Nov  6 22:01 Welcome-HRF-info
-rw-r--r--  1 london      13770 Nov  6 22:08 immune.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 london      13942 Nov  6 22:22 travel.txt

herbal-medicine/general:
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3968 Dec 31 21:06 kombucha-tea-mushroom

herbal-medicine/literature:
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1843 Nov 25 18:40 
                                   Growing-Gourmet-and-Medicinal-Mushrooms

literature:
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1169 Dec 11 22:15 15th-16th-century-herbals
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2430 Dec 31 20:55 A.Druids.Herbal
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1564 Oct 26 15:55 Chinese.Materia.Medica
-rw-r--r--  1 london      14477 Oct  9 10:53 HERBALGRAM
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1905 Nov  6 23:40 Harrowsmith.book-of-herbs
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1474 Apr 12  1994 Honest.Herbal
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5469 Oct 23 19:13 IBIS.database
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1435 Apr  8  1994 R.F.Weiss
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2344 Oct  9 10:54 The-Herbalist.CD-ROM
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2279 Jan 18  1994 Well.Being.Journal
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1614 Oct  6 21:37 Windows-Herb-Program
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8792 Feb 13  1994 afh.books
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       9481 Jan 19  1994 basic.herb.set
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2270 Jan  5  1994 books1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3499 Jan 21  1994 books2
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1131 Mar 27  1994 books3
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3499 Jan 21  1994 books4
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1303 Feb  2  1994 books5
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1125 Jan 18  1994 books6
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1272 Nov 20 20:29 catalogs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1949 Oct  9 10:39 colonial-use-of-herbs
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1230 Mar 22  1994 english.herb.books
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3568 Feb 17  1994 herb-gardening-booklist
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       4869 Feb 17  1994 herb-journals
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1039 Mar 22  1994 herb.encyclopedia
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3082 Apr 13  1994 herbalism.books
-rw-r--r--  1 london      34535 Jun 16  1994 herbals
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1336 Dec 14 01:53 herbs-and-medicinal-plants
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1962 Oct 23 19:29 medicinal-herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1913 Nov  6 10:49 medicinal-herbs-of-Ecuador
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5794 Oct 23 19:18 medieval-use-of-herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london      25190 Jun 21  1994 resource-list

mail-order:
-rw-r--r--  1 london        534 Oct 23 22:04 Bountiful.Gardens.Seeds
-rw-r--r--  1 london      20303 Oct 24 21:51 COLUMBINES-&-WIZARDRY-HERBS,-INC.
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london        811 Jan 18  1994 Chinese.Herbs.mail-order-sources
-rw-r--r--  1 london        349 Oct 23 22:03 Columbines.and.Wizardry.Herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1048 Dec 20 10:43 Great-China-Herbs
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3269 Oct 27 21:49 RICHTERS-HERBS
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1591 Dec 21 22:51 Richters
-rw-r--r--  1 london        854 Oct 23 22:11 Richters.Herbs.Internet-ID
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1129 Oct 23 19:29 Richters.Internet-ID
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1090 Dec 21 23:02 Winstead-Farms
-rw-r--r--  1 london       1446 Nov 27 18:01 capsule-filling-machine
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2884 Oct 23 22:14 herb-seeds-sourcelist
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5044 Nov 12 01:48 herbs.txt.garden-gate
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2326 Nov 20 20:30 list

mini-databases:
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       1024 Oct 23 18:13 1
drwxr-xr-x  3 london       1024 Oct 23 18:15 2

mini-databases/1:
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5888 Jan 22  1994 aniherb.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       5248 Jan 22  1994 beesherb.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3072 Jan 22  1994 chinese.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      30592 Jan 22  1994 critic.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4608 Jan 22  1994 curry.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      13440 Jan 22  1994 doctsig.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4992 Jan 22  1994 echin.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2816 Jan 22  1994 extracts.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london        195 Jan 22  1994 file_id.diz
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4352 Jan 22  1994 future.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3328 Jan 22  1994 garlic.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8576 Jan 22  1994 gotukola.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      10095 Jan 22  1994 herbs.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      95430 Aug  2 10:53 herbtxt.zip
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3584 Jan 22  1994 heritage.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      11648 Jan 22  1994 history.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      17792 Jan 22  1994 immune.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8320 Jan 22  1994 liver.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      17536 Jan 22  1994 manomin.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      10496 Jan 22  1994 nerves.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london      11904 Jan 22  1994 pregnant.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       3968 Jan 22  1994 protest.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2048 Jan 22  1994 purslane.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       8064 Jan 22  1994 q&a1.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       7303 Jan 22  1994 winemake.hrb
-rw-r--r--  1 london       4096 Jan 22  1994 winter.hrb

mini-databases/2:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1113 Feb 25  1990 alstonia.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       5887 Aug 20  1989 aniherb.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      14311 Jan  1  1989 astragal.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       4809 Jan  1  1989 ayurved.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       5143 Aug 20  1989 beesherb.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       8549 Jan  1  2038 berberaq.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london        916 Apr 17  1990 bloodtea.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1600 Feb 25  1990 calamus.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3764 Nov 25  1989 cherherb.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2690 Jul  7  1989 chinese.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       4482 Jul  7  1989 curry.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1833 Feb 25  1990 damiana.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      13399 Jul  7  1989 doctsig.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       4944 Jul  7  1989 echin.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2776 Jul  7  1989 extracts.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1463 Nov 14  1993 files.bbs
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       4352 Jul  7  1989 future.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3254 Jul  7  1989 garlic.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       2118 Feb 27  1990 ginseng.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       8472 Jul  7  1989 gotukola.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london        891 Feb 25  1990 guarana.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3631 Nov 28  1989 herbbib.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     127549 Jan 22  1992 herbdata.zip
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      10095 Jul  7  1989 herbs.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3584 Jul  7  1989 heritage.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      11579 Jul  7  1989 history.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      17666 Jul  7  1989 immune.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       3331 Apr 17  1990 impotenc.txt
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Oct 23 18:16 info
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       8254 Jul  7  1989 liver.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      17536 Jul  7  1989 manomin.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      18432 Jul  5  1989 mherbs.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      10411 Jul  7  1989 nerves.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1266 Mar 15  1990 pms.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      11904 Jul  7  1989 pregnant.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       1982 Jul  7  1989 purslane.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       8064 Jul  7  1989 q&a1.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      12800 Mar  2  1990 roots.txt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       4593 Feb 25  1990 tools.hrb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       7303 Jul  7  1989 winemake.hrb

mini-databases/2/info:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      11999 Nov 15  1993 al-herbs.lst
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london       5213 Apr 25  1992 dharma

-=||=-

Contents of archives for:

Southwest School of Botanical Medicine
sunSITE.unc.edu
pub/academic/medicine/alternative-healthcare

-rw-r--r--  1 london     178287 Dec 22 11:44 Med_Herb_Glossary_1.1
-rw-r--r--  1 london      12343 Dec 27 13:54 SWSBM.School_Catalogue_ASCII
-rw-r--r--  1 london          0 Jan  1 21:17 files
drwxr-xr-x  2 london       3072 Dec 30 11:14 herb-pictures
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 herbal-repertory
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 herbal-tinctures
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 herbal.materia-medica
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2933 Dec 30 11:15 list
drwxr-xr-x  6 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 mac
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 Dec 29 21:50 specific-indications

herb-pictures:
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         27610 Dec 29 06:11 Acacia_constricta.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         35167 Dec 29 06:11 Achillea_millefolium.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         35552 Dec 29 06:12 Achlys_triphylla.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         46343 Dec 29 06:13 Aconitum_columbianum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         39493 Dec 29 06:14 Actea_rubra.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         74417 Dec 30 01:46 Adiantum_capillus-ven.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         74417 Dec 29 06:16 Adiantum_capillus-veneris
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         54668 Dec 29 06:17 Adiantum_jordanii
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         54668 Dec 30 01:47 Adiantum_jordanii.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         45122 Dec 29 16:01 Adiantum_pedatum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         28691 Dec 29 16:02 Aesculus_californica.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         77650 Dec 29 16:03 Agave_parryi.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         60383 Dec 29 16:04 Aloe_vera.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         71063 Dec 29 16:06 Anemone_occidentalis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         42742 Dec 29 16:07 Anemone_tuberosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         34132 Dec 29 16:08 Anemopsis_californica.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38852 Dec 29 16:09 Aralia_californica.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         55467 Dec 29 16:10 Aralia_nudicaulis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         51472 Dec 29 16:12 Aralia_racemosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         68779 Dec 29 16:13 Arbutus_menziesii.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         58376 Dec 29 16:15 Arctium_minus.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         44711 Dec 29 16:16 Arctostaphylos_pungens.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         81514 Dec 29 16:18 Arctostaphylos_uva-ursi.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         33376 Dec 29 16:19 Arisaema_triphyllum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         86239 Dec 29 16:21 Aristolochia_californica.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         27448 Dec 29 16:22 Aristolochia_serpentaria.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         83473 Dec 29 16:25 Aristolochia_watsonii.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         79106 Dec 29 16:26 Arnica_latifolia.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         55948 Dec 29 16:29 Arnica_mollis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         52029 Dec 29 16:31 Asclepias_asperula.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         39803 Dec 29 16:32 Asclepias_tuberosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         73781 Dec 29 16:33 Bursera_microphylla.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         68798 Dec 29 16:35 Cassia_leptocarpa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         95936 Dec 29 16:38 Castela_emoryi.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         60134 Dec 29 16:39 Chilopsis_linearis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         41970 Dec 29 16:40 Cimicifuga_arizonica.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         73408 Dec 29 16:42 Cimicifuga_elata.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         47937 Dec 29 16:43 Cimicifuga_racemosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         28574 Dec 29 16:44 Conopholis_alpina.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         43804 Dec 29 16:45 Crataegus_rivularis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         31199 Dec 29 16:46 Cymopterus_fendleri.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38496 Dec 29 16:47 Dicentra_formosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         39765 Dec 29 16:48 Dioscorea_villosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp        109135 Dec 29 16:50 Ephedra_viridis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         20915 Dec 29 16:51 Epipactis_helleborine.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         32692 Dec 29 16:52 Eriodictyon_angustifolium.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38585 Dec 29 16:54 Fouquieria_splendens.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         44166 Dec 29 16:56 Glycyrrhiza_lepidota.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         28795 Dec 29 16:56 Grindelia_squarrosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         42687 Dec 29 16:57 Hypericum_perforatum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp          7413 Dec 30 01:50 Iris_missouriensis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         42956 Dec 29 16:59 Juglans_major.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         47948 Dec 29 17:00 Krameria_parvifolia.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         34209 Dec 29 17:01 Larrea_tridentata.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         32092 Dec 29 17:02 Ligusticum_porteri.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         34578 Dec 29 17:03 Liquidamber_styraciflua.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         68226 Dec 29 19:57 Lomatium_dissectum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         33826 Dec 29 19:58 Lycium_pallidum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38557 Dec 29 20:00 Lysichitum_americanum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38593 Dec 29 20:01 Menyanthes.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         58240 Dec 29 20:02 Monarda_menthaefolia.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         68582 Dec 29 20:04 Nepeta_cataria.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         41896 Dec 29 20:05 Nicotiana_trigonophylla.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         36883 Dec 29 20:08 Nuphar_luteum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         28556 Dec 29 20:09 Opuntia_phaeacantha.jpg
-rw-r--r--  1 london       2869 Dec 28 22:32 PLANT_JPEGs
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         46768 Dec 29 20:11 Paeonia_brownii.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         33276 Dec 29 20:12 Pedicularis_racemosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         80630 Dec 29 20:14 Peniocereus_greggii.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         43159 Dec 29 20:15 Petasites_palmatus.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         43446 Dec 29 20:16 Rhamnus_purshiana.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         25289 Dec 29 20:17 Salvia_apiana.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         28017 Dec 29 20:18 Sanguinaria_canadensis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         39039 Dec 29 20:19 Satureja_douglasii.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         30858 Dec 29 20:21 Saururus_cernuus.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         23477 Dec 29 20:22 Scutellaria_galericulata.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         41883 Dec 29 20:22 Scutellaria_latiflora.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         18838 Dec 29 20:23 Scutellaria_resinosa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         26377 Dec 29 20:25 Scutellaria_tesselata.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         29362 Dec 29 20:26 Scutellaria_versicolor.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         29581 Dec 29 20:26 Silybum_marianum.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         35251 Dec 29 20:27 Simmondsia_chinensis.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         40643 Dec 29 20:29 Smilacina_stellata.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         51498 Dec 29 20:30 Sphaeralcea_ambigua.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38245 Dec 29 20:31 Stillingia_sylvatica.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         53319 Dec 29 20:32 Tecoma_stans.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         38756 Dec 29 20:33 Tribulus_terrestrus.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         57371 Dec 29 20:34 Turnera_diffusa.jpg
-rw-rw-r--  1 ftp         77384 Dec 29 20:36 Verbascum_thapsus.jpg

herbal-repertory:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      91359 May  9  1994 herb-rep

herbal-tinctures:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      57182 May  9  1994 herb-tinct

herbal.materia-medica:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      83987 May  9  1994 herb-mat-med
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      31025 May 11  1994 hmm.part1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      28600 May 11  1994 hmm.part2
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      24364 May 11  1994 hmm.part3

mac:
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 May  9  1994 HT
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      30934 Apr 27  1994 Herbal-Repertory
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      57590 Apr 27  1994 Herbal-Tinctures
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 May  9  1994 herb-rep
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 May  9  1994 materia-medica
drwxr-xr-x  2 london        512 May  9  1994 specific-indications

mac/HT:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      39551 Apr 26  1994 HT__Plain_Text.1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      39295 Apr 26  1994 HT__Plain_Text.2

mac/herb-rep:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      42353 Apr 19  1994 HerbRep3.ASCII.1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      42353 Apr 19  1994 HerbRep3.ASCII.2
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      41459 Apr 19  1994 HerbRep3.ASCII.3

mac/materia-medica:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     115991 Apr 19  1994 Materia_Medica_ASCII.1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     115991 Apr 19  1994 Materia_Medica_ASCII.2

mac/specific-indications:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      38169 Apr 26  1994 Specific_Indications.ASCII.1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      38145 Apr 26  1994 Specific_Indications.ASCII.2
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      38145 Apr 26  1994 Specific_Indications.ASCII.3
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london      38277 Apr 26  1994 Specific_Indications.ASCII.4

specific-indications:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 london     110707 May  9  1994 spec-ind




From kitslaar@mcs.com Sun Jan  1 21:53:56 EST 1995
Article: 49851 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!ddsw1!mcs.com!kitslaar
From: kitslaar@mcs.com (Tony Kitslaar)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: garden journal software
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 21:35:10
Organization: MCSNet Services
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Message-ID: <kitslaar.15.001596B9@mcs.com>
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Keywords: journal software
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

I am looking for computer software to format  a garden journal.  Notes and 
reminder features would be useful.  I am considering using a general 
commercial personal planning program for this but think a specialized program 
would both save time and provide some ideas about organizing the materials 
that I may have not considered.  Any suggestions?


From jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Sun Jan  1 21:55:37 EST 1995
Article: 50130 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!not-for-mail
From: jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (James Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: garden journal software
Date: 1 Jan 1995 10:43:00 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3e6ii4$i7g@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
References: <kitslaar.15.001596B9@mcs.com> <3dtilj$ekk@potogold.rmii.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.scri.fsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Steve Zerbe (sazerb@rmii.com) wrote:
: > I am looking for computer software to format  a garden journal.  Notes and 
: > reminder features would be useful.  I am considering using a general 
: > commercial personal planning program for this but think a specialized program 
: > would both save time and provide some ideas about organizing the materials 
: > that I may have not considered.  Any suggestions?

: Hi Tony;

:    I'm using Lotus Organizer to keep a journal on my garden.  I can
: input tasks for certain dates on the "To Do" list, put the annual
: dates (such as the last frost date) into the "Anniversary" Section,
: and keep drawings and other planting information in the Notes.
: (This is a Windows program for the PC, by the way.)
: Hope this helps!

         Julie Zerbe

Have you considered a simple free-form database.  "Ask Sam" would, I
think, be idea.  It is expensive.  You might download 3x5 from
someonewhere on line and take a look at that.  It is shareware, and
excellent.  I use good ol' PC File, with fields for things like
species name, planting dates, fertilizer requirements, etc etc, then a
larger field at the end of comments.  
-- 
Jim Lewis - jkl2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
 . . . Without ecology . . . there would _be_ no economy.



From sweetll@wkuvx1.wku.edu Sun Jan  1 21:55:54 EST 1995
Article: 49855 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.alpha.net!mvb.saic.com!netnews.wku.edu!wkuvx2.wku.edu!sweetll
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Indigenous plants
Message-ID: <1994Dec27.234902.1@wkuvx2.wku.edu>
From: sweetll@wkuvx1.wku.edu
Date: 27 Dec 94 23:49:02 CDT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Nntp-Posting-Host: wkuvx2
Nntp-Posting-User: sweetll
Lines: 11

I am interested in starting a garden on a plot of land less than a
half acre in size in rural Kentucky.  I want to be environmentally
responsible, and I would like to plant things that will attract birds,
butterflies and other small wildlife.  Is planting indigenous plants
and wildflowers a good way to go about this?  I have been to a couple
of bookstores, but I haven't seen any books on the subject (if it
exists).  Can anyone recommend some books?  Also, are there agencies
or other resources I can use to find out what plants are native to my
region?
Thanks for the help!



From blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM Sun Jan  1 21:56:37 EST 1995
Article: 49946 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!pacbell.com!blkorbe
From: blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM (Brian Korbelik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Indigenous plants
Date: 29 Dec 1994 20:57:12 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <3dv7r8$9nk@gw.PacBell.COM>
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In article <1994Dec27.234902.1@wkuvx2.wku.edu>,
 <sweetll@wkuvx1.wku.edu> wrote:
>I am interested in starting a garden on a plot of land less than a
>half acre in size in rural Kentucky.  I want to be environmentally
>responsible, and I would like to plant things that will attract birds,
>butterflies and other small wildlife.  Is planting indigenous plants
>and wildflowers a good way to go about this?  I have been to a couple
>of bookstores, but I haven't seen any books on the subject (if it
>exists).  Can anyone recommend some books?  Also, are there agencies
>or other resources I can use to find out what plants are native to my
>region?
>Thanks for the help!
>


Yes, wildflowers and indigenous plants are a great way to attract
wildlife. I butterfly garden in Southern California and use natives
and have had much success. Two very good books on the subject are:

Butterfly Gardening - Creating Summer Magic in Your Garden
by Xerces Society and Smithsonian Institution
ISBN 0-87156-615-X


Butterflies - How to Identify and Attract Them to Your Garden
by Marcus Schneck
ISBN 0-87857-917-6


Good luck!


Brian Korbelik




From jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Sun Jan  1 21:57:51 EST 1995
Article: 50128 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!usenet.ufl.edu!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!not-for-mail
From: jkl2@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (James Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Indigenous plants
Date: 1 Jan 1995 10:33:39 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <3e6i0j$him@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
References: <1994Dec27.234902.1@wkuvx2.wku.edu> <3dv7r8$9nk@gw.PacBell.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.scri.fsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Brian Korbelik (blkorbe@srv.PacBell.COM) wrote:
: In article <1994Dec27.234902.1@wkuvx2.wku.edu>,
:  <sweetll@wkuvx1.wku.edu> wrote:
: >I am interested in starting a garden on a plot of land less than a
: >half acre in size in rural Kentucky.  I want to be environmentally
: >responsible, and I would like to plant things that will attract birds,
: >butterflies and other small wildlife.  Is planting indigenous plants
: >and wildflowers a good way to go about this?  I have been to a couple
: >of bookstores, but I haven't seen any books on the subject (if it
: >exists).  Can anyone recommend some books?  Also, are there agencies
: >or other resources I can use to find out what plants are native to my
: >region?
: >Thanks for the help!
: >


: Yes, wildflowers and indigenous plants are a great way to attract
: wildlife. I butterfly garden in Southern California and use natives
: and have had much success. Two very good books on the subject are:

: Butterfly Gardening - Creating Summer Magic in Your Garden
: by Xerces Society and Smithsonian Institution
: ISBN 0-87156-615-X


: Butterflies - How to Identify and Attract Them to Your Garden
: by Marcus Schneck
: ISBN 0-87857-917-6


: Good luck!


: Brian Korbelik

I would guess that KY has a native plant society.  Your agriculture
extension agent, state ag department, or the ag department at the
university undoubtedly will have contacts.  Many towns (mine included)
now have nurseries that specialize in native plants--and "regular"
nurseries are stocking them more and more often.  The National
Wildlife federation has publications on backyard gardens that attact
birds--and your state fish and game agenciy probably does too.


-- 
Jim Lewis - jkl2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
 . . . Without ecology . . . there would _be_ no economy.



From Gerry.Mueller@mixcom.com Sun Jan  1 21:58:01 EST 1995
Article: 49850 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.alpha.net!mixcom.com!news
From: Gerry.Mueller@mixcom.com
Subject: HID lighting and plant stands
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-ID: <1994Dec28.115137.8159@mixcom.com>
Sender: news@mixcom.com (Net News Admin)
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Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 12:48:12 GMT
Lines: 8


Does anyone know of any net resources for High intensity discarge lighting on 
the net. I'm thinking of going that route rather than fluorescents for a 
basement growing area. Questions on high poressure sodium vs. metal halide. 
Also are there any plans or hints on how to set up the growing area? Plans for 
the plant stands, etc?
Thanks
Gerry Mueller


From dione@hercules Sun Jan  1 21:58:07 EST 1995
Article: 49863 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!hercules!dione
From: dione@hercules (Matt Cheselka)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: HID lighting and plant stands
Date: 28 Dec 1994 14:13:21 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, CCIT
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <3drrq1$lt2@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU>
References: <1994Dec28.115137.8159@mixcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hercules.as.arizona.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Gerry.Mueller@mixcom.com wrote:

: Does anyone know of any net resources for High intensity discarge lighting on 
: the net. I'm thinking of going that route rather than fluorescents for a 
: basement growing area. Questions on high poressure sodium vs. metal halide. 
: Also are there any plans or hints on how to set up the growing area? Plans for 
: the plant stands, etc?
: Thanks
: Gerry Mueller


Gerry,

Check out the Dec 1994 issue of Organic gardening, page 56.  A pretty good 
article about growlights.  Although I have to complain that their spectral
colors are COMPLETELY wrong.

Cheers,

Matt Cheselka

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
M Cheselka, Philomat                     Center for Astronomical Adaptive Optics
internet: dione@as.arizona.edu           Steward Observatory
(602) 621-1624


From london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu Mon Jan  2 10:04:45 EST 1995
Article: 50151 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!calypso-2.oit.unc.edu!london
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: farm gardens (fwd)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 22:39:59 -0500
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Lines: 22
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


------- start of forwarded message -------
>From: lorgler@iastate.edu (Lisa Nunamaker-Orgler)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: farm gardens
Date: 28 Dec 1994 21:06:23 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa (USA)

I am researching the roles gardens played in the lives of Iowa farm women
during 1900-1930.  Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on
information related to this topic?  I am specifically looking for women's
diaries, journals, letters, and pictures   from that time period.  I am
interested in how the woman related to her garden beyond its utilitarian
function, such as aesthetics, escape, passing down family and cultural
traditions, etc.  Any ideas would be helpful.  thanks!
-- 
Lisa L Orgler
lorgler@iastate.edu
------- end of forwarded message -------





From starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Jan  2 23:36:45 EST 1995
Article: 50188 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.sas.ab.ca!freenet.edmonton.ab.ca!starr
From: starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
Date: 2 Jan 1995 20:03:24 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Freenet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3e9m6c$gac@news.sas.ab.ca>
References: <3daghe$qe6@mark.ucdavis.edu> <3dblf8$p5d@news.sas.ab.ca> <Pine.A32.3.91c.941230120138.29240G-100000@homer17.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2E]

I'm another Zone 3 gardener (Edmonton, Alberta).  My favorite books are 
as follows:
Andrews, Brian. _Northern Gardens_. Lone Pine Publishing, 1987. ISBN 
0-919433-35-9
Bennett, Jennifer. _The Harrowsmith Northern Gardener_. My copy is 1982 
but there is a newer edition.
Toop, Edgar. _Annuals for the Prairies_. Lone Pine Publishing, the 
University of Alberta and the University of Saskatchewan, 1993. ISBN 
1-555105-034-X
Toop, Edgar W. and Sara Williams. _Perennials for the Prairies_.  
Publisher as above, ISBN 1-555091-005-1
Hole, Lois. _Northern Flower Gardening_. Lone Pine, 1994. ISBN 1-55105-039-0
Hole, Lois. _Northern Vegetable Gardening_. Lone Pine, 1993 I think, 
can't locate my copy.
Harp, H.F. _The Prairie Gardener_. Hurtig, 1970. ISBN 0-88830-093-X 
(probably out of print, but ask your local library).
Vick, Roger. _Gardening on the Prairies : a guide to Canadian Home 
Gardening_. Western Producer Prairie Books, 1987. ISBN 0-88833-119-3

I know there are others as well.  There's one on trees and shrubs for the 
prairies that we have at work.  I work for Alberta Agriculture, Food and 
Rural Development Library, so if anyone wants to email me direct I can 
look it up.

Jane Starr
starr@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca or starr@agric.gov.ab.ca


From ldolezel@blues.epas.utoronto.ca Tue Jan  3 05:05:28 EST 1995
Article: 50196 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!hookup!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!alpha.epas.utoronto.ca!blues.epas.utoronto.ca!ldolezel
From: ldolezel@blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Lubomir Dolezel)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: "Hardy Enough" periodical address wanted
Date: 2 Jan 1995 20:52:31 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
Lines: 8
Sender: ntraill@vm1.yorku.ca
Message-ID: <3e9p2g$8f1@alpha.epas.utoronto.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blues.epas.utoronto.ca

Can anyone give me the address of a Massachessets based periodical
called Hardy Enough? The name of the fellow who publishes it and a
telephone number would also be appreciated.

Nancy Traill (ntraill@vm1.yorku.ca or ldolezel@epas.utoronto.ca)
York University Toronto




From sacks@notime.enet.dec.com Tue Jan 10 22:19:12 EST 1995
Article: 50212 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!notime.enet.dec.com!sacks
From: sacks@notime.enet.dec.com (My name is...)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Reflected light for seed-starting
Date: 3 JAN 95 08:50:21
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3ebkrg$lvi@jac.zko.dec.com>
References: <Pine.A32.3.91c.950102131542.21764C-100000@homer08.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: NOTIME

In article <Pine.A32.3.91c.950102131542.21764C-100000@homer08.u.washington.edu>, Karen Russell <russe@u.washington.edu> writes...

>My home made seed starting stand is almost finished.  What surface 
>finish will reflect the most light back to the seed trays, something 
>shiny like aluminum foil or ??, or a painted white finish?

I have my setup in a rather cold basement.  I surround it with "space blankets"
-- mylar sheets with a reflective coating, available at camping goods stores.
With two fluorescent shop lights providing heat and light, it gets to be in
the 70's as compared to the 50's in the surrounding area.  An additional
benefit is that most of the light is reflected back at the seedlings.


From bob@interstate.net Tue Jan 10 22:19:40 EST 1995
Article: 50206 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!winternet.com!interstate.net!empire.interstate.net!bob
From: Bob Batson <bob@interstate.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: `Charleston Hot' Pepper Seeds Available from Clemson
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 18:21:54 -0600
Organization: Interstate Networking Corp
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950102181856.21167A-100000@empire.interstate.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: empire.interstate.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


          `Charleston Hot' Pepper Seeds Available from Clemson

  When Clemson University breeders offered packets of `Charleston Hot'
pepper seeds for trial in 1992, they were overwhelmed by thousands of
requests. Why? Because lots of backyard and small-scale growers were
impressed by the compact form, high yields, and high resistance to
root-knot nematodes of `Charleston Hot'. No doubt some were impressed by
`Charleston Hot' peppers being about 20 times hotter than
run-of-the-mill cayenne peppers! The seeds need two weeks of
above-80-degree [Fahrenheit] temperatures to germinate.
  For a packet of 100 `Charleston Hot' seeds, send $2US and a
self-addressed stamped envelope to the South Carolina Foundation Seed
Association, Clemson University, 1162 Cherry Rd., Clemson, SC
29634-9952. Some mail-order seed companies also are expected to offer
`Charleston Hot' seeds for 1995
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reprinted with permission from the December 1994 _HortIdeas_. Copyright
1994 by Greg and Pat Williams. HortIdeas is $20 (2nd class mail within
the USA) for one year (12 issues). For more information or a
subscription, write: HortIdeas, 460 Black Lick Road, Gravel Switch, KY
40328, USA.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bob Batson				L 39 12 14 N  94 33 16 W
bob@interstate.net			USDA zone 5





From a.Faris@trl.oz.au Tue Jan 10 22:21:37 EST 1995
Article: 50223 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!msunews!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!newsserver.trl.OZ.AU!sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU!faris
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fig Trees (Pruning)
Date: 3 Jan 1995 03:00:15 GMT
Organization: TRL, Melbourne,Australia
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3eaejv$2c1@newsserver.trl.OZ.AU>
References: <13@turnip.win-uk.net> <3dv1la$jrk@ccnet3.ccnet.com>
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: sarcasm.trl.oz.au

In article <3dv1la$jrk@ccnet3.ccnet.com>, heverlyj@ccnet.com (Jerry Heverly) writes:
|> 
|> Don't prune it; the growth the tree did last summer will produce fruit 
|> for you this spring.  I almost never prune my fig outside except for a 
|> few crossers.  Most of the pruning books in the library are sure to 
|> describe fig pruning if it ever becomes necessary.
|> 	There are lots of complete fertilizers on the market(Miracle-Gro, 
|> Rapid-Gro, et.al.in the States) that will supply everything your tree could 
|> ever want 
|> as far as nutrients are concerned.  Don't be tempted to exceed the label 
|> directions or to fertilize too often, that'll produce salt build-up that 
|> can do damage.
|

Pruning a fig tree every year will maximise fruit production as most of the
fruit is produced on the same year growth or the New branches.

A.Faris


From steven@felix.kgn.ibm.com Tue Jan 10 22:21:54 EST 1995
Article: 50576 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!felix.kgn.ibm.com!steven
From: steven@felix.kgn.ibm.com (Steven Cangemi)
Subject: Re: Sources - Heirloom and Icelandic Poppies
Sender: news@hawnews.watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
Message-ID: <D1wD1J.J91@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:03:19 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
References:  <3eahcv$i3i$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: felix.kgn.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Power Parallel Systems, Kingston, New York
Lines: 12

In article <3eahcv$i3i$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com>, Wade Hooker <74352.1572@CompuServe.COM> writes:

|> I'm looking for a mailorder source for heirloom poppies/seeds.  I believe
|> one variety is Helen Elizabeth.  Also, any sources for Zone 5 hardy
|> Icelandic poppies would be appreciated.  Thank you for any leads or
|> suggestions.
|> 
|> Wade Hooker (Upstate New York)

Royal River Roses in Maine, (207) 829-5830 has Icelandic Poppy Seeds.

Steven		Mid Hudson Valley		Zone 5


From jrwoodworth@mmm.com Tue Jan 10 22:22:16 EST 1995
Article: 50211 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!dawn.mmm.com!JRW63025!jrwoodworth
From: jrwoodworth@mmm.com (John Woodworth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 07:35:38
Organization: 3M
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <jrwoodworth.330.00079840@mmm.com>
References: <3daghe$qe6@mark.ucdavis.edu> <3dblf8$p5d@news.sas.ab.ca> <Pine.A32.3.91c.941230120138.29240G-100000@homer17.u.washington.edu> <3e9m6c$gac@news.sas.ab.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jrw63025.mmm.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

I recommend *anything* by Leon Snyder, especially:

_Trees and Shrubs for Northern Gardens_
_Gardening in the Upper Midwest_
_Flowers for Northern Gardens_

Dr. Snyder founded the MN Landscape Arboretum and lead research into the 
development of successful, hardy hybrids (Northern Lights azaleas come to 
mind) for USDA zones 5-2.

John


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Imitation is the sincerest form of parody."

                         Richard Corliss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jrwoodworth@mmm.com Tue Jan 10 22:23:09 EST 1995
Article: 50211 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!dawn.mmm.com!JRW63025!jrwoodworth
From: jrwoodworth@mmm.com (John Woodworth)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening book for colder climates
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 07:35:38
Organization: 3M
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <jrwoodworth.330.00079840@mmm.com>
References: <3daghe$qe6@mark.ucdavis.edu> <3dblf8$p5d@news.sas.ab.ca> <Pine.A32.3.91c.941230120138.29240G-100000@homer17.u.washington.edu> <3e9m6c$gac@news.sas.ab.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jrw63025.mmm.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

I recommend *anything* by Leon Snyder, especially:

_Trees and Shrubs for Northern Gardens_
_Gardening in the Upper Midwest_
_Flowers for Northern Gardens_

Dr. Snyder founded the MN Landscape Arboretum and lead research into the 
development of successful, hardy hybrids (Northern Lights azaleas come to 
mind) for USDA zones 5-2.

John


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Imitation is the sincerest form of parody."

                         Richard Corliss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Tue Jan 10 22:23:41 EST 1995
Article: 50254 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!mac02.cunningham.swarthmore.edu!user
From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Catalog list
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 3 Jan 1995 19:13:56 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
Lines: 8
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In our Arboretum's quarterly publication, the Hybrid, we just did an
article called "Winter Dreaming".  This article features some area
gardeners who give information on their three favorite catalogs.  If you
are interested in a copy of this article, please e-mail me directly, let me
know your name and mailing address and I'll send you a copy of the article.

Kris Benarcik (kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu)
The Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College


From klebba@nicolet.com Tue Jan 10 22:24:51 EST 1995
Article: 50301 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!usenet
From: Bob Klebba <klebba@nicolet.com>
Subject: Re: Indigenous plants
Message-ID: <1995Jan3.154730.5190@nicmad.nicolet.com>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 3 Jan 95 15: 37:08 GMT
Sender: usenet@nicmad.nicolet.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_28
Organization: Nicolet Analytical, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d24
References: <3e6i0j$him@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:47:30 GMT
Lines: 38

> : In article <1994Dec27.234902.1@wkuvx2.wku.edu>,
> :  <sweetll@wkuvx1.wku.edu> wrote:
> : >I am interested in starting a garden on a plot of
land less than a
> : >half acre in size in rural Kentucky.  I want to be
environmentally
> : >responsible, and I would like to plant things that
will attract birds,
> : >butterflies and other small wildlife.  Is planting
indigenous plants

A lot of plants will attract wildlife, but as you guess
indigenous plants will work best.  If you want to
establish plants native to your corner of Kentucky, I
would recommend collecting seeds of plants in your area. 
This can only be done after learning what is native and
what habitats these natives prefer.  Of course this
requires some work, but is not without its rewards.

I am establishing a prairie on my property and have
discriminated between plants that are native to southern
Wisconsin and those from elsewhere.  For example, purple
coneflower is one of those "natives" in all native
wildflower seed mixes.  But purple coneflower is not
native to Wisconsin.  The pale purple coneflower is the
representative of its genus here.  

As was suggested in other postings on this thread, do look
into groups in your area that promote native plants. 
They'll know how to get you started.

Robert Klebba  USDA zone 4
Nicolet Instruments Corp.
Madison, WI  53744-4451 USA

telephone: +1-608-276-6374
fax: +1-608-273-5046
Inet: klebba@nicolet.com


From klebba@nicolet.com Tue Jan 10 22:24:55 EST 1995
Article: 50302 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!rutgers!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!usenet
From: Bob Klebba <klebba@nicolet.com>
Subject: Re: Indigenous plants
Message-ID: <1995Jan3.154844.5330@nicmad.nicolet.com>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 3 Jan 95 15: 37:08 GMT
Sender: usenet@nicmad.nicolet.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: mac1_28
Organization: Nicolet Analytical, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d24
References: <3e6i0j$him@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:48:44 GMT
Lines: 38

> : In article <1994Dec27.234902.1@wkuvx2.wku.edu>,
> :  <sweetll@wkuvx1.wku.edu> wrote:
> : >I am interested in starting a garden on a plot of
land less than a
> : >half acre in size in rural Kentucky.  I want to be
environmentally
> : >responsible, and I would like to plant things that
will attract birds,
> : >butterflies and other small wildlife.  Is planting
indigenous plants

A lot of plants will attract wildlife, but as you guess
indigenous plants will work best.  If you want to
establish plants native to your corner of Kentucky, I
would recommend collecting seeds of plants in your area. 
This can only be done after learning what is native and
what habitats these natives prefer.  Of course this
requires some work, but is not without its rewards.

I am establishing a prairie on my property and have
discriminated between plants that are native to southern
Wisconsin and those from elsewhere.  For example, purple
coneflower is one of those "natives" in all native
wildflower seed mixes.  But purple coneflower is not
native to Wisconsin.  The pale purple coneflower is the
representative of its genus here.  

As was suggested in other postings on this thread, do look
into groups in your area that promote native plants. 
They'll know how to get you started.

Robert Klebba  USDA zone 4
Nicolet Instruments Corp.
Madison, WI  53744-4451 USA

telephone: +1-608-276-6374
fax: +1-608-273-5046
Inet: klebba@nicolet.com


From shepherd@VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL Tue Jan 10 22:25:19 EST 1995
Article: 50261 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!newshub.nosc.mil!VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL!SHEPHERD
From: shepherd@VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL
Subject: tomato club newsletter
Message-ID: <1995Jan3.210942.1640@nosc.mil>
Sender: news@nosc.mil (Network News)
Reply-To: shepherd@VAX309.NHRC.NAVY.MIL
Organization: Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:09:42 GMT
Lines: 11

The Tomato Club Newsletter can be obtained for $12.95 per year (6 issues)
>from  the following address:

The Tomato Club
114 E. Main Street
Bogota, NJ 07603

This year they are also offering a packet of Brandywine seeds to
new subscribers.

Steve Shepherd


From engels@wibla.mv.att.com Tue Jan 10 22:26:16 EST 1995
Article: 50389 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!rutgers!att-out!nntpa!not-for-mail
From: engels@wibla.mv.att.com (-engels s.m.)
Subject: Re: Herb questions???
Message-ID: <D1wH8u.23I@nntpa.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: wibla.mv.att.com
Organization: AT&T
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Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 21:34:05 GMT
Lines: 16

I grow piccolo verde basil, genovese basil, chocolate mint, spearmint,
rosemary, chives & parsley in containers in a greenhouse window(New
Hampshire zone 5). They go outside in the summer - some on the deck
and some in the garden.  The basil gets planted from seed every year.

Most herbs will grow in containers. You can group them in nice-looking
easy-to-care-for arrangements.  A good kitchen mix is parsley, chives
and basil.  I've read that bay & rosemary do well combined with a low
growing carpet of thyme or chamomile.  Keeps the soil shaded.  I haven't
tried it, but these sound like great aromatic combinations. 

Good luck -- herbs are pretty easy to grow and once you start, you can't
stop.  I started 10 years ago with a couple of rosemarys & mints from
seed.  I now have a full greenhouse kitchen window and a 8'X10'
herb garden!  And I'm a very lazy gardener.



From sara-sunden@uiowa.edu Tue Jan 10 22:26:33 EST 1995
Article: 50552 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!genome8.ped-gen.uiowa.edu!user
From: sara-sunden@uiowa.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herb questions???
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 6 Jan 1995 22:58:30 GMT
Organization: uiowa
Lines: 12
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <sara-sunden-060195170151@genome8.ped-gen.uiowa.edu>
References: <D1uIG7.L7x@torfree.net> <D1wH8u.23I@nntpa.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: genome8.ped-gen.uiowa.edu

In article <D1wH8u.23I@nntpa.cb.att.com>, engels@wibla.mv.att.com (-engels
s.m.) wrote:
> 
> I grow piccolo verde basil, genovese basil, chocolate mint, spearmint,
> rosemary, chives & parsley in containers in a greenhouse window(New

Basil, while easy to grow, produces a VERY large root system as it gets
older.  So, either plant it in a large pot, or plan to start it from seed
several times during the year.

Sara Sunden
Sunden@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu


From dm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com Tue Jan 10 22:26:56 EST 1995
Article: 50243 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: mcswain@cbict3.cb.att.com (Dale McSwain)
Subject: Atlantic Giant Pumpkin Growing - How to?
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I am very interested in growing a very big pumpkin. The 
local contest pays 1.50 a pound and last years winners
were in the 500 pound category. 

Since I live in the midwest the  growing season is from
May 15 to September 30 give or take a few weeks. From
the catalog the maturation time for Atlatic Giants is
>from  115 to 125 days.  So for a 500 pound giant, it
would have to grow from 5 to 10 pounds a day. 
 
I am looking for pointers and tips if anyone has 
grown one of these babies to this size. 

My ideas now include a soaker hose for lots of water
and a yard or two of compost. Should I grow this thing
on top of black plastic or will it get too hot? 

I will summarize and post replies to rec.gardening.   

Dale McSwain
jdm@cbemf.cb.att.com


From billg@yrkpa.kias.com Tue Jan 10 22:27:06 EST 1995
Article: 50690 of rec.gardens
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From: billg@yrkpa.kias.com (bilg)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Atlantic Giant Pumpkin Growing - How to?
Date: 8 Jan 1995 22:30:49 -0500
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In article <D1uII9.6qn@nntpa.cb.att.com>,
Dale McSwain <dm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com> wrote:
>
>I am very interested in growing a very big pumpkin. The 
>local contest pays 1.50 a pound and last years winners
>were in the 500 pound category. 
>
>Since I live in the midwest the  growing season is from
>May 15 to September 30 give or take a few weeks. From
>the catalog the maturation time for Atlatic Giants is
>from 115 to 125 days.  So for a 500 pound giant, it
>would have to grow from 5 to 10 pounds a day. 
> 
>I am looking for pointers and tips if anyone has 
>grown one of these babies to this size. 
 
 
 <snip>
 
>
>Dale McSwain
>jdm@cbemf.cb.att.com

Dale,
I have never tried it myself but I just read an article in the December 
Organic Gardening magazine about growing GIANT stuff. They said the best 
pumpkin is the Dill's Atlantic Giant. It has produced world record pumpkins.
A few years back the winner was 884 pounds and the new champ weighed in at 
990 pounds!    
But the article goes on to say it is a fairly massive undertaking. Lotsa room
and lotsa soil prep and lotsa fertilizer.
I would recommend getting a copy of the article. If you can't get one email me
and I will photocopy mine and send it right off.
But for now the address for the seeds is:  Howard Dill Enterprises,  RR #1, 
Windsor,NS, Canada B0N 2T0.  (free catalog)

bil
billg@yrkpa.kias.com



From psmith@superior.carleton.ca Tue Jan 10 22:27:43 EST 1995
Article: 50270 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: psmith@superior.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Any Flower Grower/Vendors out there?
Message-ID: <psmith.789170091@superior>
Sender: news@cunews.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:54:51 GMT
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I am a small-scale market gardener, growing primarily vegetables.  As
I want to continually expand my options, I'd like some opinions on
growing cut flowers for market.

Initially, I would like to know what cut flowers people find easiest
to grow and handle in a Farmer's Market situation.  For instance, can
you identify varieties that stand up well during and after market
provided they sit in a plain pail of water?

Once I have some opinions on the above, I will investigate other
aspects such as production costs and local demand.

Your ideas are greatly appreciated!!!


From kdcutler@aol.com Tue Jan 10 22:29:12 EST 1995
Article: 50671 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Non-Hybridized Seed Catalogs
Date: 8 Jan 1995 15:40:23 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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References: <3ecmd4$2se@quality.hal.COM>
Reply-To: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)

Take a look at our (HARROWSMITH COUNTRY LIFE) annual list of seed
companies, many of which are noted as selling OP seeds. It's in the
Jan/Feb 1995. Specifically for tomatoes, try: Tomato Growers Supply Co.,
P.O. Box 2237, Fort Meyers, FL 33902; or The Tomato Seed Company, P.O. Box
1400, Tyron, NC 28782; or Totally Tomatoes, Box 1626, Augusta, GA 30903.
Karan Davis Cutler, HARROWSMITH COUNTRY LIFE


From dawn.ripley@shivasys.com Tue Jan 10 22:29:17 EST 1995
Article: 50291 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
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From: dawn.ripley@shivasys.com
Subject: Re: indigenous plants
Message-ID: <9501040035.00TVB00@shivasys.com>
Organization: Shiva Systems
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The Schenk book is really good, but your first stop should be your county's
Cooperative Extension Office.  Kentucky is fortunate to have a wildlife
specialist named Tom Barnes, who has written a good deal about butterfly
habitats and attracting wildlife--and the material is specific to Kentucky. 
Contact me directly if you would like to me send you some material via snail
mail.

Dawn Ripley                                                                   
Urban Gardening Program                                                
Jefferson County Cooperative Extension Service                dripley@ca.uky.edu


From dawn.ripley@shivasys.com Tue Jan 10 22:33:10 EST 1995
Article: 50391 of rec.gardens
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From: dawn.ripley@shivasys.com
Subject: "worms eat my garbage"
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According to the Products List in the Classroom Activities guide that
accompanies WORMS EAT MY GARBAGE, this book is available directly from Mary
Appelhof at Flowerfield Enterprises, 10332 Shaver Road, Kalamazoo, Michigan,
49002.  Telephone: 616-327-0108 or Fax: 611-343-4505.  The cost, as of January
1994, was $8.95 plus $1.50 s/h.

This is a great resource--happy vermicomposting!


From leppik@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Tue Jan 10 22:37:08 EST 1995
Article: 50370 of rec.gardens
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From: leppik@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (leppik peter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do we have a(n) FAQ?
Date: 4 Jan 1995 18:42:43 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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hboswell@apollo.wes.army.mil (Harry Boswell) writes:

>I've lurked in these weeds for quite a while now, and I've just realized
>that I've never seen (noticed) a reference to the FAQ.  Does it exist?
>I can think of several topics - compost, seed starting, how do I
>start a garden, even the dreaded PT vs non-PT lumber question.  Is there
>one?  If not, I might be willing to keep it if I got some help
>putting it together.

I claim to maintain a plants-by-mail FAQ, but I haven't had time to update
it in the last semester.  I'm in the process of updating it now, and, maybe,
with luck, I'll post it in a week or two (I'm also revamping the format,
to make it work better with the WWW version).

If you want to see the FAQ, there is an old version (~9 months) available
on the WWW: just go to the URL at the end of this message, and it is under
that.

There is a slightly newer version (~6 months) which has not been placed in
the WWW.  If you want that, send me E-mail, and I'll mail it to you.  The
file is something like 60K.

Or, wait to see if I actually manage to finish it soon.  I'd like to have
it posted before everybody does their spring plant ordering, otherwise
it is a little useless for this season.  We'll see....
-- 
	                                   Peter Leppik--  p-leppi@uiuc.edu
Lost in the Information Supercollider

http://jean-luc.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/PeterL/HOME.html


From fletcher@prairienet.org Tue Jan 10 22:37:22 EST 1995
Article: 50342 of rec.gardens
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From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do we have a(n) FAQ?
Date: 4 Jan 1995 23:57:39 GMT
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Not a FAQ, but...

Check out The Garden Gate, newly at SunSITE:
  http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm

A wide variety of links to Internet resources as well as a growing 
collection of original materials.


Harry Boswell (hboswell@apollo.wes.army.mil) wrote:
: I've lurked in these weeds for quite a while now, and I've just realized
: that I've never seen (noticed) a reference to the FAQ.  Does it exist?
: I can think of several topics - compost, seed starting, how do I
: start a garden, even the dreaded PT vs non-PT lumber question.  Is there
: one?  If not, I might be willing to keep it if I got some help
: putting it together.

: --
: Harry Boswell                 hboswell@ICchip.wes.army.mil  

--
Karen Fletcher                                     fletcher@prairienet.org
==========================================================================



From pgbaumberger2@mmm.com Tue Jan 10 22:40:51 EST 1995
Article: 50348 of rec.gardens
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From: pgbaumberger2@mmm.com (Perry Baumberger)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Peppers 6" apart!
Date: 4 Jan 1995 17:12:52 GMT
Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN  55144-1000 US
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In article <3e9nlj$m93@yrkpa.kias.com>, billg@yrkpa.kias.com (bilg) says:
>
>In article <3dpf4k$ufm@taurus.fccc.edu>,
>Jon Charles Gilliam <gilliam@rudkin.fccc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>   The latest National Gardening Magazine has a blurb about Pepper
>>spacing.  According to a recent study, the yield from plants spaced 6"
>>apart was actually greater than plants set 2' apart.  Although the fruit
>>is smaller, the increased fruit set more than made up for the difference.
>>
>>   Most SFG sources recommend 1 pepper plant per square foot, but
>>with this reference in mind I guess even more intensive planting can
>>work even better.
>>
>>:jon
>>
>I have been growing bell peppers for the past few years with mediocre success 
>being spaced 1 to 2 feet apart. My mom grew peppers in an ajacent plot spaced 
>6" apart (she didn't know the recommended spacing). Hers did much better than
>mine did. 
>I have not yet read the NG article but that would certainly put a new light on
>my mom's "mistake" <gg>.
>
>
>
>bil
>
> 
>

I've grown bell peppers successfully for many years with the following technique:

First, make sure the area you plant peppers didn't have potatoes, tomatoes, or
egg plant growing the previous year.  They all belong to the Nightshade family
of plants and are prone to the same plant diseases.

Peppers like a sunny area and soil that's warm, dry, fertile, and slightly acidic.
I grow peppers 16" apart.  One lesson my uncle taught me was when setting the
plants in the garden, he would place three or four matches in the bottom of the
hole where the plant would be set.  The pepper plants enjoy the sulfur in the 
matches.  If your soil's pH is already low, forget the matches.  Peppers need
fertilizer, but they don't like it in large amounts.  It is best if you put 
compost or well aged manure under them when they are transplanted.  Sidedress
them with a rich, organic fertilizer when they blossom.

Another trick you can use is, when the plants blossom, take an empty spray bottle
(12 - 16 oz) and put in a tablespoon of Epsom salt.  Epsom salt is a form of 
magnesium.  Fill the bottle with warm water, shake it, and then you can spray the
mixture right on the leaves of the plants.  The leaves will turn dark green and
you'll have an abundance of peppers.  One of the best bell pepper varieties I've
grown is the Bell King variety from Harris Seed Company, Moreton Farm, Rochester, NY  14624.


I hope this helps!




These are my expressed opinions.


From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Tue Jan 10 22:41:32 EST 1995
Article: 50376 of rec.gardens
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From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: "Why We Garden" Lecture
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 4 Jan 1995 19:39:59 GMT
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The Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College cordially invites you to "Why We
Garden" a lecture by J.C. Raulston, Sunday, Feb. 5, 1995, at 2 p.m. in the
Lang Performing Arts Center, Swarthmore, Pennsylvania.

J.C. will examine the motives and rewards of gardening.  He'll also analyze
the reasons we garden including:  necessity, pleasure, fear, control and
creative expresson.

Dr. Raulston is Professor of Horticulture and Director of the North
Carolina State University Arboretum in Raleigh.  He has traveled to over
700 public gardens in 50 states and 56 countries.  He has taught over 14
different horticulture courses and has driven over 50,000 miles to bring
courses to industry professionals in North Carolina and has written for
over 150 publications. 

This is a rare opportunity to hear J.C. present a philosophical lecture.
There will be a dessert reception following this event (a great chance to
get to know other gardeners).  Cost for the afternoon is $16 for Arboretum
members and $20 for nonmembers.  If you are interested in this event,
please e-mail me your name and MAILING address and I'll send you an
invitation.   

(I also want to apologize for sending this announcement to the entire list
since only nearby folks would be likely to participate, but  have no way of
doing so.)

Kris Benarcik
Scott Arboretum


From ldolezel@blues.epas.utoronto.ca Tue Jan 10 22:41:45 EST 1995
Article: 50448 of rec.gardens
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From: ldolezel@blues.epas.utoronto.ca (Lubomir Dolezel)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "Why We Garden" Lecture
Date: 6 Jan 1995 01:46:16 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS
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NNTP-Posting-Host: blues.epas.utoronto.ca

I know JC Raulston, and would enjoy hearing this particular talk. But
since 9/10 of us on the net won't be anywhere nearby, wouldn't
someone (the original poster, for instance) like to give us a summary
of this interesting lecture?

Nancy Traill (email:ntraill@vm1.yorku.ca)
York University, Toronto


From riley@prairienet.org Tue Jan 10 22:42:36 EST 1995
Article: 50392 of rec.gardens
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From: riley@prairienet.org (Riley Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: 4 Jan 1995 23:59:55 GMT
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It's great to see butterfly gardening again on rec.gdns. There's a 
new file (sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera) just for butterfly fanciers
& I'm encouraging butterfly gardeners to cross post there also. Lloyd
Fortney is correct in that a large sweep or bed of a single flower species
will attract better. I have a several page packet on butterfly gardening
which I will send FREE to anyone who will e-mail me their snail mail 
address. On Prairienet's Garden Gate is a very good list of butterfly-
attracting plants & Karen Fletcher would probalbly be happy to post it
here (again). Park's Seed catalog has a small butterfly next to each
plant (which they claim) will attract butterflies. Plant more habitat
for butterflies & they will prosper.
-- 


          "The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more
           certain it is that I only assert a limitation."


From riley@prairienet.org Tue Jan 10 22:44:04 EST 1995
Article: 50392 of rec.gardens
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From: riley@prairienet.org (Riley Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: 4 Jan 1995 23:59:55 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org


It's great to see butterfly gardening again on rec.gdns. There's a 
new file (sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera) just for butterfly fanciers
& I'm encouraging butterfly gardeners to cross post there also. Lloyd
Fortney is correct in that a large sweep or bed of a single flower species
will attract better. I have a several page packet on butterfly gardening
which I will send FREE to anyone who will e-mail me their snail mail 
address. On Prairienet's Garden Gate is a very good list of butterfly-
attracting plants & Karen Fletcher would probalbly be happy to post it
here (again). Park's Seed catalog has a small butterfly next to each
plant (which they claim) will attract butterflies. Plant more habitat
for butterflies & they will prosper.
-- 


          "The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more
           certain it is that I only assert a limitation."


From wterrill@delphi.com Tue Jan 10 22:44:42 EST 1995
Article: 50373 of rec.gardens
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From: Bill Terrill <wterrill@delphi.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Fellow Butterfly Gardners
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 22:42:21 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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Just returned from Callaway Gardens and the Day Butterfly Center-Marvelous
trip for our 2nd visit. I would like to suggest for all of you that can not
get enough butterflys that you send to them for their Butterfly Screen Saver
You need 256 color capable and Windows. It is 12 beautiful pictures that
alternate every few seconds. There is also data on each butterfly that is
easily accessed. It is $9.95 in their Gift shop. I am sure there is probably
some shipping and handling charge for mail order. Their address is:
Callaway Gardens
P.O. Box 2000
Pine Mountain, Ga. 31822-2000
 For what it is worth, it is a hell of lot cooler than flying toasters-These
are actual photos with great color.


From rebecca.barber@syntex.com Tue Jan 10 22:45:54 EST 1995
Article: 50408 of rec.gardens
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From: rebecca.barber@syntex.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Looking for gardening shareware
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 17:09:03 PDT
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Can anyone help point me in the direction of any of the following?

  The Garden Guide (GARDEN15.ZIP)
  Hortman (HTMN11.ZIP)
  Organize your plants (PLANT560.ZIP)
  Growit MkII (GROWIT2A.ZIP and GROWIT2B.ZIP)

I was told they are all shareware and available on finer computer bulletin 
boards and servers everywhere, but I haven't been able to locate any of them 
through an archie search of ftp sites, a FAQ hunt or a www search (a www 
shareware archive called SHASE looks promising from the outside, but I haven't 
been able to access it).

My access to usenet is limited.  If possible, please reply to me directly via 
e-mail, and I'll post answer(s) to the list.

Thanks much all,

Becky
  rebecca.barber@syntex.com


From RBRB93A@prodigy.com Tue Jan 10 22:46:12 EST 1995
Article: 50446 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: RBRB93A@prodigy.com (Donna Amick)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: "Worms Eat My Garbage"
Date: 6 Jan 1995 01:28:18 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
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You can order the book from Gardener's Supply company in Vermont. Their 
toll-free number is 1-800-444-6417.
I bought my worms from them as well as the book, and my worms are 
happily chewing away on my garbage as I type this!
Happy vermicomposting.
Donna Amick  in NJ  




From schenone@apple.uu.ids.net Tue Jan 10 22:46:18 EST 1995
Article: 50353 of rec.gardens
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Subject: "Worms Eat My Garbage"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: schenone@apple.uu.ids.net
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 20:02:07 EST
Message-ID: <7716-245089903@apple.uu.ids.net>
Organization: 
Lines: 18





IL>Hi:  Does anyone know of a source for the book "Worms Eat My Garbage" by
IL>Mary Appelhof?  My bookstore tells me it was published in 1982, is out of
IL>print, and can't be ordered.  I'm not prepared to accept that.  Thanks in
IL>advance for any pointers.

IL>Dick Lucas   lucas@cg-atla.agfa.com


Smith & Hawken carries it in their stores (not their catalog,though).
You could also contact Flower Press, 10332 Shaver Road, Kalamazzo,
Michigan, 49002.  My copy (just purchased) says 1982 for the publication
date, though it was obviously printed recently.:).
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ ÿ


From dm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com Tue Jan 10 22:49:02 EST 1995
Article: 50411 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.bu.edu!gw1.att.com!nntpa!cbict3.cb.att.com!mcswain
From: mcswain@cbict3.cb.att.com (Dale McSwain)
Subject: A new seed catalog from the Amish
Message-ID: <D1xsI0.5GE@nntpa.cb.att.com>
Sender: mcswain@cbict3.att.com (Dale McSwain)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cbict3.cb.att.com
Reply-To: dm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Columbus
X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-6
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:34:47 GMT
Lines: 23


I have been ordering bean and pea seeds from a place called
Berlin Seeds 
5371 County Road 77
Millersburg, OH 44654
216-893-2811

Beans, peas and corn seeds are much cheaper by the pound
than most other mail order sources. Most prices average
2 to 3 dollars a pound. Reemay is 10 dollars for 50 
feet. The best prices I have seen everywhere.  

All orders over $25 before March 10 are shipped free. 

If you call to request a catalog you may have someone
else answer the phone. Just ask for the Berlin Seeds
Catalog. 

Just a satisfied customer.


Dale McSwain
jdm@cbemf.cb.att.com 


From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Tue Jan 10 22:49:20 EST 1995
Article: 50409 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!mac02.cunningham.swarthmore.edu!user
From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 5 Jan 1995 14:49:03 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <kbenarc1-050195095045@mac02.cunningham.swarthmore.edu>
References: <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In article <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com>, childers@databank.com (David
Childers) wrote:

> It's about time to start pepper plant seedlings for this summer's garden.
> 
> Does anyone know of a source for pepper seeds such as Habenerro, Cayene or Asian varieties? I can 
> usually locate Jalapeno and Fire seeds with little or no trouble.
> 
> Yes, I enjoy eating them as a spice, but I also think that the plants are a beautiful addition to the 
> scenery.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help on this matter!
> 
> -- 
> David Childers - - > childers@databank.com

Dear David-

Try the catalog from Plants of the Southwest, Agua Fria, Rt. 6, Box 11A,
Santa Fe NM 87501.  The cost of their catalog is $3.50 and is well worth
the minor investment.  They have many different types of peppers (both seed
and plants) plus an assortment of other wonderful plants native to the
Southwest.  Happy gardening--

Kris Benarcik
Scott Arboretum


From kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu Tue Jan 10 22:49:58 EST 1995
Article: 50409 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!mac02.cunningham.swarthmore.edu!user
From: kbenarc1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Kris Benarcik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 5 Jan 1995 14:49:03 GMT
Organization: Scott Arboretum of Swarthmore College
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <kbenarc1-050195095045@mac02.cunningham.swarthmore.edu>
References: <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In article <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com>, childers@databank.com (David
Childers) wrote:

> It's about time to start pepper plant seedlings for this summer's garden.
> 
> Does anyone know of a source for pepper seeds such as Habenerro, Cayene or Asian varieties? I can 
> usually locate Jalapeno and Fire seeds with little or no trouble.
> 
> Yes, I enjoy eating them as a spice, but I also think that the plants are a beautiful addition to the 
> scenery.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help on this matter!
> 
> -- 
> David Childers - - > childers@databank.com

Dear David-

Try the catalog from Plants of the Southwest, Agua Fria, Rt. 6, Box 11A,
Santa Fe NM 87501.  The cost of their catalog is $3.50 and is well worth
the minor investment.  They have many different types of peppers (both seed
and plants) plus an assortment of other wonderful plants native to the
Southwest.  Happy gardening--

Kris Benarcik
Scott Arboretum


From kgowen@efn.org Tue Jan 10 22:50:03 EST 1995
Article: 50611 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!cs.uoregon.edu!efn!kgowen
From: kgowen@efn.org (Kevin Gowen)
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Message-ID: <D22rvz.2sI@efn.org>
Organization: Eugene Free community Network/Oregon Public Networking
References: <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 07:09:35 GMT
Lines: 27

In <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com> childers@databank.com (David Childers) writes:

>It's about time to start pepper plant seedlings for this summer's garden.

>Does anyone know of a source for pepper seeds such as Habenerro, Cayene or Asian varieties? I can 
>usually locate Jalapeno and Fire seeds with little or no trouble.

>Yes, I enjoy eating them as a spice, but I also think that the plants are a beautiful addition to the 
>scenery.

>Thanks in advance for any help on this matter!

>-- 
>David Childers - - > childers@databank.com

The Pepper Gal
P.O. Box 23006
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33307
305-537-5540

Nichols Garden Nursery
1190 North Pacific Highway
Albany, OR  97321-4580
503-928-9280
   -967-8406 (fax)




From libby@igc.apc.org Tue Jan 10 22:50:45 EST 1995
Article: 50697 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!gatekeeper.us.oracle.com!barrnet.net!news.igc.apc.org!cdp!libby
From: Libby Goldstein <libby@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Message-ID: <APC&1'0'569f9ca5'395@igc.apc.org>
References: <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 13:14:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Gateway: notes@igc.apc.org
Lines: 7

There's a whole list of chile seed suppliers at

http://chile.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu:8000/www.chile.html

The Chileheads home page. If you don't have a web reader use the gopher.

Libby


From mckinnon@sparc.isl.net Tue Jan 10 22:50:50 EST 1995
Article: 50712 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.isl.net!sparc.isl.net!mckinnon
From: The Gord <mckinnon@sparc.isl.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 02:35:22 -0600
Organization: Information Superhighways Limited
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.950109023345.26338H-100000@sparc.isl.net>
References: <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com> <APC&1'0'569f9ca5'395@igc.apc.org>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <APC&1'0'569f9ca5'395@igc.apc.org> 

Earl of Pepper
PO Box 9404
Augusta, GA 30916-9404

excellent source of all sorts of peppers

tel: 706-796-8647


From mckinnon@sparc.isl.net Tue Jan 10 22:51:20 EST 1995
Article: 50712 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.isl.net!sparc.isl.net!mckinnon
From: The Gord <mckinnon@sparc.isl.net>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 02:35:22 -0600
Organization: Information Superhighways Limited
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.950109023345.26338H-100000@sparc.isl.net>
References: <3egull$5cj@news1.databank.com> <APC&1'0'569f9ca5'395@igc.apc.org>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <APC&1'0'569f9ca5'395@igc.apc.org> 

Earl of Pepper
PO Box 9404
Augusta, GA 30916-9404

excellent source of all sorts of peppers

tel: 706-796-8647


From en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Tue Jan 10 22:51:35 EST 1995
Article: 50457 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!en767
From: en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerald W. Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Pepper Seed Source
Date: 6 Jan 1995 06:57:59 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3eipln$fhv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nextsun.ins.cwru.edu


I agree that Plants of the southwest is a good choice for pepper
seeds. I also recommend Native Seeds/SEARCH, 2509 N. Campbell Ave
#325, Tucson. AZ 85719  (602) 327-9123. And for variety, it's 
hard to beat The Pepper Gal, P.O. Box 23006, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 
33307. 305-537-5540 (voice)  566-2208 (fax)
-- 
Trans-Pacific Nursery        Rare and Exotic Plants
Email catalog available      Timber Press books discounted


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Tue Jan 10 22:53:00 EST 1995
Article: 50545 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
X-Apparently-to: DAN HUISJEN
Subject: Organic material names -
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.6586.2599@granite.mn.org>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 00:37:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 64

DAN HUISJEN TO ALL
Discussing: Organic material names - ON 01/04/95
Replied To: Friday, January 6, 1995 00:00


H> I always liked the term "biomass"  myself.

H> Vague as it is, it seems to describe quite a variety of materials
H> according to
H> their potential use, rather than their source.  

Hi Dan,

Biomass has been one of my favorite words to describe organic matter 
too. However, our department of energy and the Great Lakes Council of 
Governors have published so much material on "biomass utilization" 
which is strictly related to combustion, that the term is now thought 
of as an energy source, to the exclusion of other values.

I noticed once that organic matter sources and forms can be lumped 
generally into four "F" categories, fuel, feed, fiber, and fertilizer.
It is hard, aside from Biomass before it was associated with just 
fuel, to find a word that describes all four uses and categories.

H> When viewing an ecosystem, one can also use the term to encompas
H> all of the material before specifying smaller parts, as in: 52 -
H> 55% of the biomass in an
H> old growth forest is composed of fungi, while only a third of the
H> total biomass is visable above the level of the forest floor.

A good friend of mine, a composting and permaculture expert from 
Sprout Acres in Laguna Beach, CA, Dr. Bill Roley, coined the term 
"humusphere" to describe the soil ecosystem. I like the sound of the 
phrase, as it connotes a respiration cycle or a systems approach to 
the soul, rather than any one humus aspect.

Reminds me of the refrain from Joni Mitchell's song "Woodstock"

We are stardust
We are golden
Billion year old carbon
Locked in the Devil's bargain
And we've got to find a way
Back to the garden


To me, that just about sums it all up.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org






 * RM 1.3 02460 * A belief in anything is better than a doubt of everything

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Tue Jan 10 22:54:13 EST 1995
Article: 50545 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
X-Apparently-to: DAN HUISJEN
Subject: Organic material names -
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.6586.2599@granite.mn.org>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 00:37:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 64

DAN HUISJEN TO ALL
Discussing: Organic material names - ON 01/04/95
Replied To: Friday, January 6, 1995 00:00


H> I always liked the term "biomass"  myself.

H> Vague as it is, it seems to describe quite a variety of materials
H> according to
H> their potential use, rather than their source.  

Hi Dan,

Biomass has been one of my favorite words to describe organic matter 
too. However, our department of energy and the Great Lakes Council of 
Governors have published so much material on "biomass utilization" 
which is strictly related to combustion, that the term is now thought 
of as an energy source, to the exclusion of other values.

I noticed once that organic matter sources and forms can be lumped 
generally into four "F" categories, fuel, feed, fiber, and fertilizer.
It is hard, aside from Biomass before it was associated with just 
fuel, to find a word that describes all four uses and categories.

H> When viewing an ecosystem, one can also use the term to encompas
H> all of the material before specifying smaller parts, as in: 52 -
H> 55% of the biomass in an
H> old growth forest is composed of fungi, while only a third of the
H> total biomass is visable above the level of the forest floor.

A good friend of mine, a composting and permaculture expert from 
Sprout Acres in Laguna Beach, CA, Dr. Bill Roley, coined the term 
"humusphere" to describe the soil ecosystem. I like the sound of the 
phrase, as it connotes a respiration cycle or a systems approach to 
the soul, rather than any one humus aspect.

Reminds me of the refrain from Joni Mitchell's song "Woodstock"

We are stardust
We are golden
Billion year old carbon
Locked in the Devil's bargain
And we've got to find a way
Back to the garden


To me, that just about sums it all up.

Mr Compost~~~

Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org






 * RM 1.3 02460 * A belief in anything is better than a doubt of everything

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org Tue Jan 10 22:54:27 EST 1995
Article: 50605 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!mr.net!bardeen.physics.csbsju.edu!gcbbgw!gcbb!jim.mcnelly
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Organic material names -
From: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
Message-ID: <36.6657.2599@granite.mn.org>
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 01:02:00 +0600
Organization: Granite City Connection St. Cloud MN 612-654-8372
Lines: 66

DAN HUISJEN TO ALL
Discussing: Organic material names - ON 01/04/95
Replied To: Friday, January 6, 1995 00:00



H> I always liked the term "biomass"  myself.

H> Vague as it is, it seems to describe quite a variety of materials
H> according to
H> their potential use, rather than their source.  

Hi Dan,

Biomass has been one of my favorite words to describe organic matter 
too. However, our department of energy and the Great Lakes Council of 
Governors have published so much material on "biomass utilization" 
which is strictly related to combustion, that the term is now thought 
of as an energy source, to the exclusion of other values.

I noticed once that organic matter sources and forms can be lumped 
generally into four "F" categories, fuel, feed, fiber, and fertilizer.
It is hard, aside from Biomass before it was associated with just 
fuel, to find a word that describes all four uses and categories.

H> When viewing an ecosystem, one can also use the term to encompas
H> all of the material before specifying smaller parts, as in: 52 -
H> 55% of the biomass in an
H> old growth forest is composed of fungi, while only a third of the
H> total biomass is visable above the level of the forest floor.

A good friend of mine, a composting and permaculture expert from 
Sprout Acres in Laguna Beach, CA, Dr. Bill Roley, coined the term 
"humusphere" to describe the soil ecosystem. I like the sound of the 
phrase, as it connotes a respiration cycle or a systems approach to 
the soul, rather than any one humus aspect.

Reminds me of the refrain from Joni Mitchell's song "Woodstock"

We are stardust
We are golden
Billion year old carbon
Locked in the Devil's bargain
And we've got to find a way
Back to the garden


To me, that just about sums it all up.

Mr Compost~~~


Jim~ McNelly
jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org






 * RM 1.3 02460 * A belief in anything is better than a doubt of everything

------------------============<>=============-----------------
   Granite City Connection (612) 654-8372 28.8K 3 Lines
   Email: jim.mcnelly@granite.mn.org (Jim Mcnelly)
------------------============<>=============-----------------


From XRAY Tue Jan 10 22:54:57 EST 1995
Article: 50431 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!mac-as-60.cig.mot.com!user
From: XRAY ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Southern Hemisphere Trees
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 14:32:32 -0600
Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <XRAY-050195143232@mac-as-60.cig.mot.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-as-60.cig.mot.com

I am curious if there are any trees/shrubs from the Southern Hemisphere
that are hardy enough to survive in Zone 5.  There are many interesting
trees from that part of the world.  Does anyone specialize in these trees?

Thanks for any information.


From martini@husc.harvard.edu Tue Jan 10 22:55:36 EST 1995
Article: 50430 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!martini.fas.harvard.edu!martini
From: Jeff Martini <martini@husc.harvard.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden/Landscaping Design Software for Windows
Date: 5 Jan 1995 20:35:35 GMT
Organization: Harvard University
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3ehl6n$2oq@decaxp.harvard.edu>
References: <3e4fe9$6fv@netfs.dnd.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: martini.fas.harvard.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d24
X-XXMessage-ID: <AB31C33DB6015054@martini.fas.harvard.edu>
X-XXDate: Thu, 5 Jan 95 20:39:41 GMT

In article <3e4fe9$6fv@netfs.dnd.ca> Gordon Marwood, marwood@dgs.dnd.ca
writes:
>Can anyone provide any recommendations for flower garden/landscaping 
>design software for MS Windows, which includes the following 
>characteristics.

Gordon, 
There is a CDrom for Windows that covers everything you asked for. I am
not sure if the program comes on diskette though. The company is called
BOOKS THAT WORK. I couldn't tell you how good it works, I'm waiting for
the MAC version to come out.  I also don't have an postal address for the
company, but I do have an email address of the marketing guy:
Tom Bradshaw  TomAtBTW@aol.com

Hope this helps.

Jeff Martini


From defurst@u.washington.edu Tue Jan 10 22:56:31 EST 1995
Article: 50484 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!defurst
From: defurst@u.washington.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: SUMMARY>Butterfly Gardening Quarterly Winter'95
Date: 5 Jan 1995 23:58:38 GMT
Organization: Seattle
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <3ei13e$gkv@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Keywords: butterfly gardens
Subscriptions: per year (4 issues)
US: $6; Canada: $7US; Washington State: $6.49 (incls sales tax)
 
 
 
 
 
 
message: sub Leps-L [your full name] 
 
 




From afsan@io.org Tue Jan 10 22:56:55 EST 1995
Article: 50474 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!io.org!nobody
From: afsan@io.org (afsan)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Orchid Digest available
Date: 5 Jan 1995 19:16:33 -0500
Organization: Heritage Seed Program (Canada)
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <3ei251$m3s@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bonk.io.org
Summary: I have Volume 43 (1979) of The Orchid Digest available.
Keywords: orchid digest magazine

I have a 6 issue set of Vol. 43 of the Orchid Digest (1979) available for
anyone who wants it.  They are in decent condition and intact.  If you are
interested, please Email me.   Mike


From mn.mdc@forsythe.stanford.edu Tue Jan 10 22:57:06 EST 1995
Article: 50468 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!morrow.stanford.edu!usenet
From: mn.mdc@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marcia Chmyz)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Wanted: Advice for Aspiring Gardening Professional
Date: 6 Jan 1995 00:22:32 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <3ei2g9$o8s@morrow.stanford.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kfps-cypress-dean-of-research-dynamic-64.stanford.edu
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.1

I was wondering if anyone had advice for someone interested in
getting into the fields of landscape design or ornamental
horticulture. 

All I know is that I love flowers and seem to have a green thumb. 


What are the different routes that people have taken to get into
these fields, what are the opportunities in them, etc.  What are
the benefits to working in the field (at a nursery or landscape
design co.?) versus getting a degree first?

Any and all advice would be appreciated!!!  Please respond to
group or by e-mail to address below.

Linda 
(posting from mn.mdc@forsythe.stanford.edu)


From annie@shore.net Tue Jan 10 22:57:29 EST 1995
Article: 50477 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!shore.shore.net!bertha12.shore.net!user
From: annie@shore.net (Shauna L. Rabinowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: cold weather planting
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 17:23:12 -0400
Organization: North Shore Access/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net)
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <annie-0501951723120001@bertha12.shore.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bertha12.shore.net

I just moved to Massachusetts from Arizona (a major climate change) and I
have to say that while exorbatent in price, "Marta Stewart's Gardening"
book is lovely and I think deals with stuff @ zone 5 (connecticut). The
pictures will make you drool.
                  annie@shore.net


From WSNW43A@prodigy.com Tue Jan 10 22:58:01 EST 1995
Article: 50458 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: WSNW43A@prodigy.com (Ronald Manuel)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: EXOTIC, TROPICAL and UNUSUAL SEEDS
Date: 5 Jan 1995 21:26:11 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 8
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3eho5j$om6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap4.news.prodigy.com
X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

 Plant Seeds from around the World. OVER 1,000 Varieties. Pennies per 
seed.

 Send A SASE to       The Magic Basement
                                  485 Oakshadow Way
                                  Wellington, Fl 33414
    Ask for the seed catalog



From WSNW43A@prodigy.com Tue Jan 10 22:58:49 EST 1995
Article: 50458 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: WSNW43A@prodigy.com (Ronald Manuel)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: EXOTIC, TROPICAL and UNUSUAL SEEDS
Date: 5 Jan 1995 21:26:11 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 8
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3eho5j$om6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap4.news.prodigy.com
X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

 Plant Seeds from around the World. OVER 1,000 Varieties. Pennies per 
seed.

 Send A SASE to       The Magic Basement
                                  485 Oakshadow Way
                                  Wellington, Fl 33414
    Ask for the seed catalog



From bbeer@u.washington.edu Tue Jan 10 22:59:22 EST 1995
Article: 50461 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!bbeer
From: bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds Catalogue - Ship to US?
Date: 6 Jan 1995 06:31:12 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <3eio3g$n8a@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <3dt2hs$gfn@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <3dtjtu$tuj@carbon.cudenver.edu> <3dvskh$cl5@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <3e98gf$sqd@news.halcyon.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: saul3.u.washington.edu

Certainly they do.  I have ordered from them for three years in a row.  
The currency difference is no problem, you just give them a credit card 
number, and they go with the current exchange rate.  You can also order 
by phone, but of course a postage stamp is cheaper.  :)  Usually, I go in 
on an order with lots of friend who also want stuff.

You can bring in 
almost any type of seed legally, and actually you can import plants from 
UK if you have an importer's permit.  (But not Dianthus or Salix, for 
reasons that have little to do with pests and more to do with plant 
patents or something.)  The only hitch is that you have to have them 
completely washed of soil, because soil is the vehicle of many pests.  
Still it can be cheaper for some plants like clematis.  I recently went 
in on an order from a clematis specialty nursery and got a plant of 
"Betty Corning" for about 11 dollars after the shipping and washing 
fees.  The same plant would cost (when available) over 30 dollars here, 
and the plants I got were big and robust.  Definitely worth looking into!


In article <3e98gf$sqd@news.halcyon.com>,  <allison@halcyon.com> wrote:
>In <3dvskh$cl5@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer) writes:
>>
>>Does Chiltern Seeds ship to US?
>
>
>Chiltern Seeds
>>Bortree Stile
>>Ulverston
>>Cumbria
>>LA12 7PB
>>ENGLAND
>>
>>Phone:  (01299) 581137
>>Fax:	(01229) 584549
>>
>
>
>+------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
>|  @@@@   @@@@       @  @@@@   | I'm Warped, alright.                      |
>| @    @ @    @     @  @    @  |                                           |
>| @    @  @@       @      @@   | Dan Simpson                               |
>| @    @    @@    @     @@     | Bainbridge Island, WA                     |
>| @    @ @    @  @     @       |                                           |
>|  @@@@   @@@@  @      @@@@@@  | allison@halcyon.com                       |
>+------------------------------+-------------------------------------------+
>




From schenone@apple.uu.ids.net Tue Jan 10 23:00:16 EST 1995
Article: 50475 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!paperboy.ids.net!apple.uu.ids.net!schenone
Subject: Seed Catalogs for Indigenous Long Island Flowers??
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: schenone@apple.uu.ids.net
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 08:07:41 EST
Message-ID: <7718166285501@apple.uu.ids.net>
Organization: 
Lines: 28




IJ>I want to have a flower garden that is made up of indigenous plants that wil
IJ>be naturally hardy.
IJ> I prefer to grow from organic seeds, if possible.
IJ> Does anybody know of a catalogue or a nursery where I can buy seeds for
IJ>flowers (especially perennials) native to Long Island?
IJ>Is there a listserv that would be pertinent for me?

Would you like to try plants instead of seeds? Some indigenous plants
are hard to germinate and/or raise indoors until that magic day when
they go outside.Trust me-I've tried! <VBG>.

As for what is native to Long Island, check with your local sources.
The Planting Fields Arboretum, Oyster Bay, LI is listed by Vicki
Ferreniea in "Wildflowers in Your Garden" as a place for you to see
native plants.Bear Mountain State Park and The New York Botanical Garden
in the Bronx might also be worth checking out. Your Cooperative
Extension Service might be able to reccomend more sites to check.

Some of the best indigenous plant sources are in the Southeast. I have
personally ordered from Gardens of The Blue Ridge and Eco Gardens, and
had excellent results. Others include Niche Gardens, Holbrook, Plant
Delights, and Woodlanders. The Vermont Wildflower Farm specializes in
seeds.
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 1¾


From schenone@apple.uu.ids.net Tue Jan 10 23:00:21 EST 1995
Article: 50492 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!paperboy.ids.net!apple.uu.ids.net!schenone
Subject: Seed Catalogs for Indigenous Long Island Flowers??
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: schenone@apple.uu.ids.net
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 09:52:31 EST
Message-ID: <7718201117802@apple.uu.ids.net>
Organization: 
Lines: 29




IJ>I want to have a flower garden that is made up of indigenous plants that wil
IJ>be naturally hardy.
IJ> I prefer to grow from organic seeds, if possible.
IJ> Does anybody know of a catalogue or a nursery where I can buy seeds for
IJ>flowers (especially perennials) native to Long Island?
IJ>Is there a listserv that would be pertinent for me?

Would you like to try plants instead of seeds? Some indigenous plants
are hard to germinate and/or raise indoors until that magic day when
they go outside.Trust me-I've tried! <VBG>.

As for what is native to Long Island, check with your local sources.
The Planting Fields Arboretum, Oyster Bay, LI is listed by Vicki
Ferreniea in "Wildflowers in Your Garden" as a place for you to see
native plants.Bear Mountain State Park and The New York Botanical Garden
in the Bronx might also be worth checking out. Your Cooperative
Extension Service might be able to reccomend more sites to check.

Some of the best indigenous plant sources are in the Southeast. I have
personally ordered from Gardens of The Blue Ridge and Eco Gardens, and
had excellent results. Others include Niche Gardens, Holbrook, Plant
Delights, and Woodlanders. The Vermont Wildflower Farm specializes in
seeds.
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ 1¾



From rob.king@nfe.com Tue Jan 10 23:00:44 EST 1995
Article: 50489 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PONDS + Aquaria
Date: 6 Jan 1995 08:49:54 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 46
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9501060917296678@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

I know there is a group .ponds, now... but I don't have access to it...
anybody that wants to cross-post this, feel free.

------------------- original message ------------------

ON LINE AQUARIUM CONVENTION SCHEDULED FOR FEBRUARY 24-26
Aquarium enthusiasts and others interested in fish, ponds,
aquaculturae and marine life will be able to attend an
computerized convention Feb 24 through 26 1995, on the
Aquarium/Fish Forum (FISHNET) on CompuServe.

The ninth annual Winter Weekend Workshop (WWW9) will include
lectures, games and prizes as well as opportunities for questions
and discussions and opportunities to meet other aquarists from
around the country and abroad.  The lectures will cover a variety
of subjects and include topics of interest to beginners and
advanced hobbyists, and those with ponds, freshwater aquariums
and marine tanks.  There also will be hospitality rooms and an
on-line trade show with information about aquarium products and
services.

Those attending lectures and participating in games and puzzles
will be able to earn Fishy Bucks to spend at the no-money
auction.  The auction, which will be held a week later on Sunday,
March 5, features items donated by aquarium-related businesses
and other organizations.

A full conference schedule will be available in one of the
libraries on FISHNET prior to the start of WWW9 and information
on speakers, events and any schedule changes will be announced on
the forumUs message board FISHNET staff members will be available
to help participants find information and locations of events.
The access command on CompuServe to find the forum is GO FISHNET.

FISHNET is an computer information exchange service on CompuServe
for people interested in fish, aquaria, invertebrates and ponds.
Its more than 11,000 members are general aquarium hobbyists as
well as public aquarium administrators, aquarium product
manufacturers, fish farmers and breeders, and representatives of
aquarium-related businesses.  Access to CompuServe requires a
computer and a modem.  There is no cost for participation on
FISHNET or participation in WWW9 beyond regular CIS access
charges.  Introductory memberships in CIS  are available by
calling 1-800-524-3388 and asking for Rep. 164.
---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From rob.king@nfe.com Tue Jan 10 23:01:17 EST 1995
Article: 50489 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
From: rob.king@nfe.com (Rob King)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PONDS + Aquaria
Date: 6 Jan 1995 08:49:54 -0600
Organization: NFE BBS 317-447-9653
Lines: 46
Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
Message-ID: <9501060917296678@nfe.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu

I know there is a group .ponds, now... but I don't have access to it...
anybody that wants to cross-post this, feel free.

------------------- original message ------------------

ON LINE AQUARIUM CONVENTION SCHEDULED FOR FEBRUARY 24-26
Aquarium enthusiasts and others interested in fish, ponds,
aquaculturae and marine life will be able to attend an
computerized convention Feb 24 through 26 1995, on the
Aquarium/Fish Forum (FISHNET) on CompuServe.

The ninth annual Winter Weekend Workshop (WWW9) will include
lectures, games and prizes as well as opportunities for questions
and discussions and opportunities to meet other aquarists from
around the country and abroad.  The lectures will cover a variety
of subjects and include topics of interest to beginners and
advanced hobbyists, and those with ponds, freshwater aquariums
and marine tanks.  There also will be hospitality rooms and an
on-line trade show with information about aquarium products and
services.

Those attending lectures and participating in games and puzzles
will be able to earn Fishy Bucks to spend at the no-money
auction.  The auction, which will be held a week later on Sunday,
March 5, features items donated by aquarium-related businesses
and other organizations.

A full conference schedule will be available in one of the
libraries on FISHNET prior to the start of WWW9 and information
on speakers, events and any schedule changes will be announced on
the forumUs message board FISHNET staff members will be available
to help participants find information and locations of events.
The access command on CompuServe to find the forum is GO FISHNET.

FISHNET is an computer information exchange service on CompuServe
for people interested in fish, aquaria, invertebrates and ponds.
Its more than 11,000 members are general aquarium hobbyists as
well as public aquarium administrators, aquarium product
manufacturers, fish farmers and breeders, and representatives of
aquarium-related businesses.  Access to CompuServe requires a
computer and a modem.  There is no cost for participation on
FISHNET or participation in WWW9 beyond regular CIS access
charges.  Introductory memberships in CIS  are available by
calling 1-800-524-3388 and asking for Rep. 164.
---
 * QMPro 1.53 * ------>---->--->-->->> rob.king@nfe.com <<-<--<---<-----


From tonihaun@u.washington.edu Tue Jan 10 23:02:22 EST 1995
Article: 50510 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!carson.u.washington.edu!tonihaun
From: Toni Haun <tonihaun@u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: PNW gardens/Wade Hooker
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 08:58:29 -0800
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <Pine.PTX.3.91a.950106084301.2177A-100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On 3 Jan 1995, Wade Hooker wrote:

> I am planning a trip to the Northwest of the US in June and would like to
> hear of the names of some public botanical/ornamental gardens in that area.
> I will be traveling through Washington from the Corvallis area on up to
> Vancouver, B.C. with side trips to the Olympic Peninsula and whatever else
> I can squeeze in.  Of particular interest are displays of perennial flwring
> plants (paeonies, poppies) and evergreens.  Any suggestions as to where to
> go would be appreciated.  Thanks.

there is a private garden and mail-order nursery in kingston washington 
that should not be missed. in fact, in early june there is usually a 
friday/saturday open to the public with plant sales and conscripts in the 
garden to help identify the plants. please write to them to find out the 
open days or to schedule a private appointment at some other time. they 
grow a wide variety of perennial plants as well trees and shrubs, both 
evergreen and deciduous. usda zone 8a as far as i know, and truly awe 
inspiring. the mailing address is 

heronswood nursery
7530 288th st ne
kingston, wa  98346

a catalog will run about $3, but it's full of plants to die for. they're 
very cool folks, but as usual overwhelmed by people stopping in and 
dropping in (which they are not zoned for and the neighbors complain 
long and loud and stoop to retaliation), so don't do it without being 
invited. this is truly a garden for the plantsperson.

-t


From bbeer@u.washington.edu Tue Jan 10 23:02:35 EST 1995
Article: 50550 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!bbeer
From: bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: PNW gardens/Wade Hooker
Date: 7 Jan 1995 08:47:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <3elke4$fnr@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <Pine.PTX.3.91a.950106084301.2177A-100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: saul4.u.washington.edu

>> I am planning a trip to the Northwest of the US in June and would like to
>> hear of the names of some public botanical/ornamental gardens in that area.
>> I will be traveling through Washington from the Corvallis area on up to
>> Vancouver, B.C. with side trips to the Olympic Peninsula and whatever else
>> I can squeeze in.  Of particular interest are displays of perennial flwring
>> plants (paeonies, poppies) and evergreens.  Any suggestions as to where to
>> go would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Be sure to visit the University of British Columbia Botanical Gardens.  
They have some very unusual rarely-seen things there, including beautiful 
stands of Meconopsis (himalayan blue poppies).  

Also go to Butchart gardens.

In Seattle:

You will be coming on the tail end of the Rhododendron season, but a trip to the Rhododendron 
Species Foundation is still worth it.  It is in Federal Way (south of 
Seattle), 2525 S 336th St. 

In South Seattle, you will want to go to the Kubota Gardens, in the 
Rainier Beach area.  Very interesting and beautiful plantings.  

The Washington Park Arboretum is the region's largest collection of woody 
plants and trees, and is also a great place.  You can get a map and guide 
to the whole place at the visitors center there.  Besides the trees and 
shrubs, there is a rock garden and a well-known Japanese garden.  

Besides the Arboretum, the University of Washington Campus itself is very 
beautifully planted and has many unusual trees.  You can get a walking 
tour guide at the bus stop shelters at the south end of Stevens Way, the 
loop that circles the campus.  While there, stop at the U.W. Medicinal 
Herb Garden.  If you are interested, the U.W. Botany Greenhouse is also 
open to the public, and is right beside the herb garden.  

One of my favorite places, and one that is often overlooked even by lots
of Seattleites, is the Tilth Garden at Good Shepherd Center, on 50th and
Meridian (well, that is the NW edge of the grounds) in the Wallingford
district.  It is not a huge place, but has beautiful and fascinating
borders, mainly due to the work of Gil Schieber, a well-known local
plantsman who makes frequent trips to England to bring back stock and
introduce new plant material to cultivation.  You should also call him and
see if you can arrange to see his place - he has two annual sales but I
believe you can also go by appointment.  He lives in Ballard (northwest
neighborhood). 

While in Ballard, you can also go to the gardens at the Hiram Chittenden 
locks.  It is not huge either but it is especially known for its 
extensive collection of Fuschias, both hardy and non-hardy species and 
hybrids.  

Another place that you *must* go to is the Bellevue Botanical Garden.  It 
is rather new, so it doesn't have the huge collection of old mature 
exotic trees that the Washington Park Arboretum, but it has an incredible 
mixed border that is maintained by the members of the Northwest Perennial 
Alliance.  (N.P.A., Box 45574, Seattle, WA  98145-0574)  You should 
contact them and find out when their next garden tour is, and also the 
Arboretum Foundation (Washington Park Arboretum, XD-10, University of 
Washington, Seattle, WA  98195).  Besides the public gardens, some of the 
most beautiful gardens here are private ones.  Because of the climate, 
Seattle is a very gardening city, and I heard recently that there is more 
diverse plant material here than any other city in the U.S.  Sounds 
right.  :)  Anyway, enjoy, and feel free to call if you come.

Bob Beer

 ============================================================================== 
| Bob Beer                 | "A troubled mind is a trouble maker."             |
| bbeer@u.washington.edu   |                         - Edna St. Vincent Millay |
 ============================================================================== 





From bbeer@u.washington.edu Tue Jan 10 23:02:59 EST 1995
Article: 50550 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!bbeer
From: bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: PNW gardens/Wade Hooker
Date: 7 Jan 1995 08:47:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <3elke4$fnr@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
References: <Pine.PTX.3.91a.950106084301.2177A-100000@carson.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: saul4.u.washington.edu

>> I am planning a trip to the Northwest of the US in June and would like to
>> hear of the names of some public botanical/ornamental gardens in that area.
>> I will be traveling through Washington from the Corvallis area on up to
>> Vancouver, B.C. with side trips to the Olympic Peninsula and whatever else
>> I can squeeze in.  Of particular interest are displays of perennial flwring
>> plants (paeonies, poppies) and evergreens.  Any suggestions as to where to
>> go would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Be sure to visit the University of British Columbia Botanical Gardens.  
They have some very unusual rarely-seen things there, including beautiful 
stands of Meconopsis (himalayan blue poppies).  

Also go to Butchart gardens.

In Seattle:

You will be coming on the tail end of the Rhododendron season, but a trip to the Rhododendron 
Species Foundation is still worth it.  It is in Federal Way (south of 
Seattle), 2525 S 336th St. 

In South Seattle, you will want to go to the Kubota Gardens, in the 
Rainier Beach area.  Very interesting and beautiful plantings.  

The Washington Park Arboretum is the region's largest collection of woody 
plants and trees, and is also a great place.  You can get a map and guide 
to the whole place at the visitors center there.  Besides the trees and 
shrubs, there is a rock garden and a well-known Japanese garden.  

Besides the Arboretum, the University of Washington Campus itself is very 
beautifully planted and has many unusual trees.  You can get a walking 
tour guide at the bus stop shelters at the south end of Stevens Way, the 
loop that circles the campus.  While there, stop at the U.W. Medicinal 
Herb Garden.  If you are interested, the U.W. Botany Greenhouse is also 
open to the public, and is right beside the herb garden.  

One of my favorite places, and one that is often overlooked even by lots
of Seattleites, is the Tilth Garden at Good Shepherd Center, on 50th and
Meridian (well, that is the NW edge of the grounds) in the Wallingford
district.  It is not a huge place, but has beautiful and fascinating
borders, mainly due to the work of Gil Schieber, a well-known local
plantsman who makes frequent trips to England to bring back stock and
introduce new plant material to cultivation.  You should also call him and
see if you can arrange to see his place - he has two annual sales but I
believe you can also go by appointment.  He lives in Ballard (northwest
neighborhood). 

While in Ballard, you can also go to the gardens at the Hiram Chittenden 
locks.  It is not huge either but it is especially known for its 
extensive collection of Fuschias, both hardy and non-hardy species and 
hybrids.  

Another place that you *must* go to is the Bellevue Botanical Garden.  It 
is rather new, so it doesn't have the huge collection of old mature 
exotic trees that the Washington Park Arboretum, but it has an incredible 
mixed border that is maintained by the members of the Northwest Perennial 
Alliance.  (N.P.A., Box 45574, Seattle, WA  98145-0574)  You should 
contact them and find out when their next garden tour is, and also the 
Arboretum Foundation (Washington Park Arboretum, XD-10, University of 
Washington, Seattle, WA  98195).  Besides the public gardens, some of the 
most beautiful gardens here are private ones.  Because of the climate, 
Seattle is a very gardening city, and I heard recently that there is more 
diverse plant material here than any other city in the U.S.  Sounds 
right.  :)  Anyway, enjoy, and feel free to call if you come.

Bob Beer

 ============================================================================== 
| Bob Beer                 | "A troubled mind is a trouble maker."             |
| bbeer@u.washington.edu   |                         - Edna St. Vincent Millay |
 ============================================================================== 





From mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca Tue Jan 10 23:04:22 EST 1995
Article: 50541 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!alberta!adec23!ersys!mrfurry
From: mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Matthew Furry)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Company wants your feedback
Message-ID: <gesiyc1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 11:40:39 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3
Lines: 27

I have seen a few posts here that question when Seed Companies will get 
on-line.  I'm the in-house propeller head for a seed company in Alberta.  
I've been on the net for a while, and I've seen some of the reaction to 
the commercial users (not always positive!).
 
I would like to get some feedback (FEEDBACK, not flames!) on what the 
users in this group think.  What I would like to do initially is set up 
an account for the company on a local provider and respond to mail 
requests for catalogues.  We may also be able to respond to unusual 
request and questions.  Eventually (Lighting my pipe, stoking the fire 
and leaning back...) I would like to set up a web server with our 
catalogue on-line.
 
PLEASE note.  This address is on a local BBS.  I've already been scolded 
(justifiably) for trying to FTP by mail.  If I can build a good case for 
the above, I'll finally have a toy budget!  Until then, please don't get 
me in trouble by sending your thesis by mail.
 
 Thanks Matt Furry
 
**************************************************************************
*  Matthew Furry    mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca                         *
**************************************************************************

--
Matthew Furry   mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca   
Edmonton Remote Systems   Serving Edmonton/Northern Alberta since 1982


From mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca Tue Jan 10 23:05:00 EST 1995
Article: 50541 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!alberta!adec23!ersys!mrfurry
From: mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Matthew Furry)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Company wants your feedback
Message-ID: <gesiyc1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 11:40:39 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3
Lines: 27

I have seen a few posts here that question when Seed Companies will get 
on-line.  I'm the in-house propeller head for a seed company in Alberta.  
I've been on the net for a while, and I've seen some of the reaction to 
the commercial users (not always positive!).
 
I would like to get some feedback (FEEDBACK, not flames!) on what the 
users in this group think.  What I would like to do initially is set up 
an account for the company on a local provider and respond to mail 
requests for catalogues.  We may also be able to respond to unusual 
request and questions.  Eventually (Lighting my pipe, stoking the fire 
and leaning back...) I would like to set up a web server with our 
catalogue on-line.
 
PLEASE note.  This address is on a local BBS.  I've already been scolded 
(justifiably) for trying to FTP by mail.  If I can build a good case for 
the above, I'll finally have a toy budget!  Until then, please don't get 
me in trouble by sending your thesis by mail.
 
 Thanks Matt Furry
 
**************************************************************************
*  Matthew Furry    mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca                         *
**************************************************************************

--
Matthew Furry   mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca   
Edmonton Remote Systems   Serving Edmonton/Northern Alberta since 1982


From mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca Tue Jan 10 23:10:13 EST 1995
Article: 50541 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca!alberta!adec23!ersys!mrfurry
From: mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Matthew Furry)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Seed Company wants your feedback
Message-ID: <gesiyc1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 11:40:39 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3
Lines: 27

I have seen a few posts here that question when Seed Companies will get 
on-line.  I'm the in-house propeller head for a seed company in Alberta.  
I've been on the net for a while, and I've seen some of the reaction to 
the commercial users (not always positive!).
 
I would like to get some feedback (FEEDBACK, not flames!) on what the 
users in this group think.  What I would like to do initially is set up 
an account for the company on a local provider and respond to mail 
requests for catalogues.  We may also be able to respond to unusual 
request and questions.  Eventually (Lighting my pipe, stoking the fire 
and leaning back...) I would like to set up a web server with our 
catalogue on-line.
 
PLEASE note.  This address is on a local BBS.  I've already been scolded 
(justifiably) for trying to FTP by mail.  If I can build a good case for 
the above, I'll finally have a toy budget!  Until then, please don't get 
me in trouble by sending your thesis by mail.
 
 Thanks Matt Furry
 
**************************************************************************
*  Matthew Furry    mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca                         *
**************************************************************************

--
Matthew Furry   mrfurry@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca   
Edmonton Remote Systems   Serving Edmonton/Northern Alberta since 1982


From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Tue Jan 10 23:10:38 EST 1995
Article: 50732 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!aicrtp!Uaic
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <5@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 18:09:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Seed Company wants your feedback
Lines: 13

Well Matt the purpose of any newsgroup is really about
information.  We join this group to find things out.  My local
newspapers gardner is famous for saying xyz plant is great and
does well in this area but dont ask where you can get it or seeds
or anything else.  So we have to talk among ourselves to find
information pro or con on different subjects.  Seed questions,
compost questions plant questions.  Do I care that you are a seed
company no.  Not if you are going to help me with my problems.  If
you recomend things and I can get them from you or locally I will
probably buy them from you if you help me.  I like to keep in
business those that keep me in business.  If you can involve the
other horticultirst/botanists/gardeners at your company to
participate so much the better. 



From churm@pacific.net Tue Jan 10 23:10:49 EST 1995
Article: 50524 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!hilbert.dnai.com!nbn!miwok!pacific.net!ts-26.pacific.net!churm
From: churm@pacific.net (Brian R. Churm)
Subject: Any advice for a good plant book?
Message-ID: <churm.3.000B123E@pacific.net>
Summary: Looking for a good thorough plant book
Keywords: BOOKS SEEDS PLANTS
Lines: 18
Sender: news@pacific.net
Organization: Up in the wine country hills of California
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:04:12 GMT

Hi there,

My better half and I have just placed our orders with Burpee and others for 
the spring collection of seeds and plants. However, there are many 
seeds/plants in these catalogues that we both are not familiar with but would 
like to give a shot at growing.

What I am curious in finding out, is there any book out there (probably like 
an encyclopedia) that lists all the seeds/plants and what their needs are. 
Things like soil PH, light, moisture, the works. The little paragraphs they 
give in the seed catalogues don't do much good and most of the books I have 
found in the bookstore (like Sunset ) usually only deal with the mainstream 
plants.

Any recommendations are welcome. 

Brian Churm
churm@pacific.net


From greggpsky@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:11:22 EST 1995
Article: 50653 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: greggpsky@aol.com (Gregg Psky)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Any advice for a good plant book?
Date: 8 Jan 1995 12:24:04 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 15
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3ep73k$gkf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <churm.3.000B123E@pacific.net>
Reply-To: greggpsky@aol.com (Gregg Psky)

Take a look at:
Wyman's Garden Encyclopedia, Donald Wyman
Hardy Herbaceous Perennials, Leo Jellitto et. al.
Perennials for American Gardens, Ruth Rogers Clausen et. al.
Herbaceous Perennial Plants, Allan M. Armitage
Encyclopedia of Perennials, Christopher Woods
Encylopedia of Ornamental Grasses, John Greenlee
The Color Dictionary of Flowers and Plants, Roy Hay et. al.
Landscape Plants for Western Regions, Bob Perry
Cooking from the Garden, Rosalind Creasy
All these duplicate information.  Each is unique in it's own way.
Happy gardening.
Gregg Polubinsky
Landscape Architect
Bakersfield, California


From slen@ursa.calvin.edu Tue Jan 10 23:11:29 EST 1995
Article: 50684 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!ursa.calvin.edu!slen
From: slen@ursa.calvin.edu (Howard Slenk)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Any advice for a good plant book?
Date: 9 Jan 1995 01:31:07 GMT
Organization: Calvin College
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <3eq3kr$quo@uncle.calvin.edu>
References: <churm.3.000B123E@pacific.net> <3ep73k$gkf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ursa.calvin.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Don't do any gardening in California without Sunset's Book.  My son lives 
there, and I saw his copy of The Sunset Book of Western Gardening.  
Approximate title.  There's a new edition coming out in a month or two.  
Don't be without this Bible.  I was very impressed by it.

Howard

MAKE LOVE TO MOTHER EARTH


From riley@prairienet.org Tue Jan 10 23:15:42 EST 1995
Article: 50515 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!riley
From: riley@prairienet.org (Riley Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do butterfly houses work?
Date: 6 Jan 1995 21:58:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3ekeef$dv2@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org


I think that you are referring to butterfly hibernation boxes. A few
species of butterflies (at least in zone 5 & east of the great plains)
will overwinter as adults & crawl under loose bark or in hollow branches
to hibernate. Notice that I mentioned "a few species". A lot of people
think that these boxes will increase the populations of summer butterflies
(monarchs, swallowtails & such)- NOT SO. British butterfly gardeners (such
as L. Hugh Newman) claim that hibernation boxes will increase the popula-
tions of hibernationg species. I have 3 butterfly boxes that I've put out
for the last 3 winters. Since the bottom of the box should be 3-4 ft from
the ground I've never gotten up on a ladder to see if there are any butter-
flies inside. I do it on faith every fall. Butterflies will not lay eggs
on dead sticks but on pretty specific plants, which do not grow in the boxes.
If you have any other butterfly questions, please feel free to e-mail me.
A good book that discusses hibernation boxes is THE BUTTERFLY GARDEN
by Matthew Tekulsky. 
-- 


          "The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more
           certain it is that I only assert a limitation."


From riley@prairienet.org Tue Jan 10 23:16:40 EST 1995
Article: 50515 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!riley
From: riley@prairienet.org (Riley Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Do butterfly houses work?
Date: 6 Jan 1995 21:58:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <3ekeef$dv2@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: firefly.prairienet.org


I think that you are referring to butterfly hibernation boxes. A few
species of butterflies (at least in zone 5 & east of the great plains)
will overwinter as adults & crawl under loose bark or in hollow branches
to hibernate. Notice that I mentioned "a few species". A lot of people
think that these boxes will increase the populations of summer butterflies
(monarchs, swallowtails & such)- NOT SO. British butterfly gardeners (such
as L. Hugh Newman) claim that hibernation boxes will increase the popula-
tions of hibernationg species. I have 3 butterfly boxes that I've put out
for the last 3 winters. Since the bottom of the box should be 3-4 ft from
the ground I've never gotten up on a ladder to see if there are any butter-
flies inside. I do it on faith every fall. Butterflies will not lay eggs
on dead sticks but on pretty specific plants, which do not grow in the boxes.
If you have any other butterfly questions, please feel free to e-mail me.
A good book that discusses hibernation boxes is THE BUTTERFLY GARDEN
by Matthew Tekulsky. 
-- 


          "The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more
           certain it is that I only assert a limitation."


From emhough@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:16:45 EST 1995
Article: 50561 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: emhough@aol.com (EMHough)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Request for stories
Date: 6 Jan 1995 23:55:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3el6rs$236@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3drvdd$k02@get.hooked.net>
Reply-To: emhough@aol.com (EMHough)

When I was young (9 or 10), my parents built an addition to the house and
a new patio. Between the patio and house was a very small planting area,
1' x 10'. My mother gave me a packet of marigold seeds and zinnia seeds,
and helped me plant and nuture MY area. Well, the instant success, the
'miracle' of such pretty flowers from that seed was enchanting /
fascinating. That easy success convinced me that gardening was fun! Now,
even 30 yrs later, the smell of marigolds brings back those wonderful
memories. (And the fascination of many subsequent attempts at a
continually broadened gardening effort- both the successes and failures,
keeps me coming back for more. But every garden has to have those
marigolds...) 
Beth


From pp001306@interramp.com Tue Jan 10 23:17:16 EST 1995
Article: 50565 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet
From: pp001306@interramp.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Composting? & New Book
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 95 09:46:20 PDT
Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <NEWTNews.27294.789501260.pp001306@interramp.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip233.akron.oh.interramp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


My Wife received a new book yesterday, "Herb Gardening", one of the
American Garden Guides, ISBN 0-679-41432-0. It's great but one particular
item suprised her. In a section on composting it said that you should
not put CITRUS skins etc. in to compost. This is the first time we had
seen this. Anyone else have a comment about this.

BTW: The book features gardens and is edited by individuals from
Cornell, U. of Mich. and UC Berkley.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Kemp (pp001306@interramp.com>
I've got the money so I've got the Thyme



From pp001306@interramp.com Tue Jan 10 23:17:53 EST 1995
Article: 50565 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!interramp.com!usenet
From: pp001306@interramp.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Composting? & New Book
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 95 09:46:20 PDT
Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
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Message-ID: <NEWTNews.27294.789501260.pp001306@interramp.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip233.akron.oh.interramp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


My Wife received a new book yesterday, "Herb Gardening", one of the
American Garden Guides, ISBN 0-679-41432-0. It's great but one particular
item suprised her. In a section on composting it said that you should
not put CITRUS skins etc. in to compost. This is the first time we had
seen this. Anyone else have a comment about this.

BTW: The book features gardens and is edited by individuals from
Cornell, U. of Mich. and UC Berkley.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Kemp (pp001306@interramp.com>
I've got the money so I've got the Thyme



From bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu Tue Jan 10 23:18:41 EST 1995
Article: 50626 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!nic-nac.CSU.net!cello.gina.calstate.edu!cello.gina.calstate.edu!not-for-mail
From: bmoon@cello.gina.calstate.edu (Bruce A. Moon)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer vs Fruit trees..help
Date: 7 Jan 1995 19:59:49 -0800
Organization: GINA and CORE+ Services of The California State University
Lines: 19
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References: <3emklc$7rj@krel.iea.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cello.gina.calstate.edu

	I have fruit trees in my sheep pastureI've veen hoping that when 
the trees get older (they are only a couple of years old) I wouldn't have 
the problem you are describing, so your post is disturbing to me.
	What is working for me for the most part is encircling trees with 
3 t-posts and 2x2 wire. At $2-3 a post and $3 for the fencing, this is 
getting expensive!. I tried 4/x4 wire, but the sheep put their heads 
through. i bought some of my posts from a guy that had surrounded his 
trees to keep his horses out and had even electrified some of the fencing.
	A New Zealander answered a similar post saying that they had 
developed a spray using eggs and water that worked. Another poster got a 
recipe for a similar spray somewhere like the National Gardening magazine.
	For new plantings this year I am going to use Tree shelters. 
These are plastic sleeves that come in heights up to 5 ft. and attach to 
a stake with a cable tie. However, they won't work for old trees as you 
need a straight, unbranched tree to slide the Tree shelter over. 
	Of course, I do have the consolation of putting some of my pests 
in the freezer from time to time....
Bruce Moon
Rio Linda, CA


From ppostuma@nbnet.nb.ca Tue Jan 10 23:22:17 EST 1995
Article: 50647 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!nbt.nbnet.nb.ca!ppostuma.nbnet.nb.ca!ppostuma
From: ppostuma@nbnet.nb.ca (Paul Postuma)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Plant growing software
Date: 8 Jan 1995 04:06:31 GMT
Organization: nbnet
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <ppostuma.42.0@nbnet.nb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppostuma.nbnet.nb.ca

To whoever it was - 

I don't know any of the software packages you mention.  However, one 
shareware program I do know, called Grow'Em, 'cause I wrote it.  Though 
version 3.0 isn't yet ready for distribution (another few months), I'm 
willing to release 2.1 to the public domain.  It's a vast improvement over 
version 1.0 though it lacks the digitized pictures, and obviously some of 
the information, contained in 3.0.

Please, someone, tell me where I can find a home for this stuff.  It's 
getting expensive sending the file to people, and I don't have an .edu or 
freenet to send from.  <g>


From teria@henson.cc.wwu.edu Tue Jan 10 23:22:27 EST 1995
Article: 50660 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!henson!teria
From: teria@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Teri M Aeschliman)
Subject: Re: Evergreen Catalog?
Message-ID: <1995Jan8.194634.7243@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Organization: Western Washington University
References: <3eonad$f1d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:46:34 GMT
Lines: 20

fd141@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (A. Mikolas) writes:


>Has anybody run across a catalog that features evergreens like
>junipers, cypress, etc?

Yes, I just received a catalog the other day from Musser Forests, Inc.  
It looks really nice with glossy paper and color photos.  They also have 
deciduous trees, shrubs, perennials, and ground covers.  I have also heard 
good things about them from other gardeners.  I have not ordered from 
them myself yet, but I will probably order something from them this 
year since they come so highly recommended.  I am also impressed with 
their reasonable prices  You can contact them at:

		Musser Forests, Inc
		Dept. S-95M PO Box 340
		Indiana, Pennsylvania 15701-0340
		Phone (412) 465-5685  Fax (412) 465-9893

Teri


From teria@henson.cc.wwu.edu Tue Jan 10 23:22:58 EST 1995
Article: 50660 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.clark.edu!henson!teria
From: teria@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Teri M Aeschliman)
Subject: Re: Evergreen Catalog?
Message-ID: <1995Jan8.194634.7243@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Organization: Western Washington University
References: <3eonad$f1d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:46:34 GMT
Lines: 20

fd141@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (A. Mikolas) writes:


>Has anybody run across a catalog that features evergreens like
>junipers, cypress, etc?

Yes, I just received a catalog the other day from Musser Forests, Inc.  
It looks really nice with glossy paper and color photos.  They also have 
deciduous trees, shrubs, perennials, and ground covers.  I have also heard 
good things about them from other gardeners.  I have not ordered from 
them myself yet, but I will probably order something from them this 
year since they come so highly recommended.  I am also impressed with 
their reasonable prices  You can contact them at:

		Musser Forests, Inc
		Dept. S-95M PO Box 340
		Indiana, Pennsylvania 15701-0340
		Phone (412) 465-5685  Fax (412) 465-9893

Teri


From dewey@sooner.ctci.com Tue Jan 10 23:24:25 EST 1995
Article: 50658 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: austin.general,rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!news.dell.com!sooner!dewey
From: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman)
Subject: Ted Fisher: Seed Catalogs
Message-ID: <1995Jan8.170405.7870@sooner.ctci.com>
Sender: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman)
Organization: CTC, Inc., Austin, TX. U.S. of A. 78731-1819, Great Turtle Island
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 17:04:05 GMT
Lines: 124

            Catalogs can plant the seed of new gardening ideas
       [Scanned in from Austin American-Statesman and posted to the
           Internet with permission of Ted Fisher and the AAS ]
                         Saturday December 31,1994


Ask gardeners what their favorite days are on the gardening
calendar and you'll get a variety of responses.

For many avid gardeners the most anticipated days are those of
early January when the new gardening catalogs are arriving. The arrival
of the year's seed and nursery catalogs is an event awaited with 
pulse-quickening anticipation. Filled with old favorites and never-
before-seen new varieties, the catalogs give hours of pleasure and
"armchair" gardening enjoyment.

The mailbox arrival of seed, bulb and nursery catalogs has been
an annual "happening" for gardeners for well over a century. Enticing
us with familiar favorites and challenging us with the new and the
unknown, the catalogs fuel our passion for gardening's best.

Catalog names and covers have changed over the years. Varieties have
come and gone. But catalogs have always been interesting and informative
Wish Books.

The 1995 catalogs currently arriving in my mailbox reveal that
plant breeders and explorers from around the world are continuing
to provide gardeners with exciting new varieties of flowers
and vegetables.

One cataloguer alone has added 150 new varieties to their listing
for 1995. Many plants being introduced today do represent significant
improvements over older types. Increased insect and disease resistance,
larger, more tasty fruit, greater productivity and more compact growth
habits are just a few of the modern improvements you will find.

Keep in mind, however, as you browse through the colorful mail order
catalogs, that not all varieties depicted in the beautiful color pages
will be adapted to your Austin garden. Even though the plants may be
hardy to nothern cold climates, they may grow poorly or not at all
in the Austin and Central Texas area.

However, it can be interesting and fun to try a few varieties from
the pages of the new introductions and check them out under your
backyard growing conditions.

If you decide to order from catalogs, exercise a bit of caution and
restraint. It's easy to order more than you need. You may have visions
of a well-stocked vegetable or flower garden, but ten packages of seeds
to fill a hundred square feet of growing area will certainly be too much.

If you have not ordered from any catalogs because you generally buy
locally, you might like to send for a few just for background information
and new ideas. There are many catalogs, including those that specialize
in listing specific types of plants, flowers, vegetables, perennial
trees and shrubs. You'll find them advertised in the back sections of
magazines and in the Sunday newspaper supplements.

Or you can go to the library and look through their collection of
garden catalogs. Then order your own copy of those that appeal to you.
Most catalogs are free upon request, but a few charge a nominal fee
that can be deducted from your first order.

One of the premiere organizations responsible for the release of
outstanding new varieties to the gardening public is the All-America
Selection.

All-America Selections is a nationwide testing organization that 
evaluates new flowers and vegetables each year in open trials. Judges
at 60 official trial grounds in the United States and Canada grow and
evaluate new flower and vegetable varieties submitted by plant breeders
>from  around the world. Each entry is carefully screened and evaluated
for superiority in its class. Only a very small percentage of those
plants tested are chosen to be introduced nationwide as All-America
Selections. Each new AAS variety is the best in its class, having
surpassed the performance of the previously top-rated varieties in
side-by-side comparisons.

The All-America label is considered the highest honor a flower or
vegetable can receive in this country.

For 1995 there are three All-America award winners:

* Petunia "Celebrity Chiffon Morn". Petunias used to be pretty delicate
and somewhat cantankerous in the garden, but the new varieties are easier
to grow, and more drought and weather tolerant. This new winner has a
unique soft pastel pink color with flower 2 1/2 inches across. Only the
flower color can be described as soft or delicate, as the plant is 
tough. Plants are reliable, growing about 18 inches tall in a sunny
garden.

* Petunia "Purple Wave". A new breakthrough in petunias, this new
introduction grows low to the ground (4 to 6 inches high), but can spread 2
to 4 feet. All growth is horizontal. Purple Wave is the first petunia with
a ground cover habit. As the name implies, the color is a deep true solid
purple. The plant is ideal when used as a ground cover or in rock gardens,
on sloping hills or terraces, and is heat and dry weather tolerant.

* Rudbeckia "Indian Summer". Rudbeckia also is known as the gloriosa
daisy and is native to the eastern United States. This free-flowering new
variety bears huge golden blooms 6 to 9 inches across. The low-branching
plants grow 3 to 4 feet tall. Because it is easily grown from seed and
quick to bloom, "Indian Summer" is outstanding as an annual bedding plant.
It may be perennial in our climate.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
     Ted Fisher is the horticulturist with the Travis County Extension
          Service. His column appears on Saturday.  (512)-473-9600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you like these postings, you should tune into KLRU, Public TV channel
18 on Saturdays(check listings) and the following Sunday on KLRU2 for 
The Central Texas Gardner Show. Ted Fisher has his own spot on these shows 
and the shows are always very local and informative. They are on every 4th 
Saturday and repeated on next Sunday.

Side Note: Currently, I'm scanning these in because Ted Fisher writes these
on a *typewriter*, if you like to contribute PC parts, software or dollars to 
a cause to get Ted a computer with some good wordprocessing software, and
modem, please contact me, not Ted. It's a surprise... ;-)  -dewey
-- 
Dewey Coffman  	dewey@ctci.com  dewey@cactus.org  dewey@bga.com CTC Texas Inc.
Notary Public, after 5pm service available.	 USDA Zone 8. Compost Happens.
All opinions expressed are unrelated to reality.	Austin Beer Club
"If you fail to plan, plan to fail" 		"One Dollar, One Vote" [\]


From dapalmer@exodus.databank.com Tue Jan 10 23:24:30 EST 1995
Article: 50659 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.databank.com!exodus.databank.com!dapalmer
From: dapalmer@exodus.databank.com (Dale Palmer )
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Excel Seeds, Good, Bad or Ugly?
Date: 8 Jan 1995 19:44:40 GMT
Organization: Databank InterNet News Host
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3epfb8$8rc@news1.databank.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: databank.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

A retail operation in my town has excel seeds advertised for $.10 per pack.
This being the first year both in a new house and trying to start plants 
>from  seeds, I thought that I would try these and find out if I liked this
method and if it was worth the time and effort.  In the past I went to a
local nursery for all but a few bulbs and live plants that I ordered via 
a catalog.

My question is, will I only be wasting my time with these seeds, or would
this be an inexpensive way to get started in seed propigation?  Realize I
am neither a purist or spend a great amount of time gardening.

Looking forward to your responces.
Dale

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

	"All I know is that the hours are long, under these conditions,
	and constrain us to beguile them with proceedings which ... may at
        first sight seem reasonable, until they become a habit."

					Vladimir, Act Two, Scene One
					While Waiting for Godot
					Samuel Beckett
	Dale A. Palmer
	dapalmer@databank.com
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From sacks@notime.enet.dec.com Tue Jan 10 23:24:35 EST 1995
Article: 50711 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!jac.zko.dec.com!notime.enet.dec.com!sacks
From: sacks@notime.enet.dec.com (Gerald Sacks)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Excel Seeds, Good, Bad or Ugly?
Date: 9 JAN 95 09:21:50
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <3erh9i$1bs@jac.zko.dec.com>
References: <3epfb8$8rc@news1.databank.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: NOTIME


There's nothing wrong with 10 cent seed packs.  The varieties might not be
the best for your area, and they're certainly not new or exciting, but they'll
germinate fine (they have to -- the U.S. government has germination standards).
Excel (and others of their ilk) buy inexpensive seeds in bulk and repackage
them.  I've used 10 cent packs for flat-leaf parsley for years and have had
good results.


From knowlton@neosoft.com Tue Jan 10 23:24:40 EST 1995
Article: 50694 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!udel!darwin.sura.net!news.sesqui.net!uuneo.neosoft.com!usenet
From: knowlton@neosoft.com (Chadd Knowlton)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Seed Vitality Question
Date: 9 Jan 1995 04:20:19 GMT
Organization: Elephants and More Elephants!
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3eqdi3$f0b@uuneo.neosoft.com>
References: <3epgdh$hr6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sam-slip-l5.neosoft.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5

In article <3epgdh$hr6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, winedread@aol.com (WineDread) says:
>
>How long do different vegatable seeds stay vital in storage? I've heard
>you can keep tomato seeds, for example, for several years. Supposedly you
>have to start with fresh lettuce and onion seeds every year. Any comments
>on other vegatable seeds such as peas, beans, melons, peppers, herb seeds,
>etc. lasting in storage?
>Thanks!


Viability depends upon the conditions in which the seeds have been stored.
High temperatures and low humidity will kill seeds faster.  For most seeds,
in the dark of the refrigerator is the best place to be for living long.
Generally (but always with exception) the larger and harder a seed is the longer
it will last.  You can always try to start them, and if they aren't up in 10
days, begin to lose hope.  You might try starting seeds in a warm place for
best luck; my grandma has a lot of success on her dryer.  I've seen people use
heating pads.  It can encourage seeds to start that might not otherwise.   Good luck!


From dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net Tue Jan 10 23:24:51 EST 1995
Article: 50785 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!ibmpcug!kate.ibmpcug.co.uk!deepbeds!dave
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <57@deepbeds.win-uk.net>
References: <3epgdh$hr6@newsbf02.news.aol.com><3eqdi3$f0b@uuneo.neosoft.com>
Reply-To: dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net (David  J Seabrook)
From: dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net (David  J Seabrook)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:59:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Seed Vitality Question
Lines: 46

 
In article <3eqdi3$f0b@uuneo.neosoft.com>, Chadd Knowlton (knowlton@neosoft.com) writes:
>In article <3epgdh$hr6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, winedread@aol.com (WineDread) says:
>>
>>How long do different vegatable seeds stay vital in storage? I've heard
>>you can keep tomato seeds, for example, for several years. Supposedly you
>>have to start with fresh lettuce and onion seeds every year. Any comments
>>on other vegatable seeds such as peas, beans, melons, peppers, herb seeds,
>>etc. lasting in storage?
>>Thanks!
>
>
>Viability depends upon the conditions in which the seeds have been stored.
>High temperatures and low humidity will kill seeds faster.  For most seeds,
>in the dark of the refrigerator is the best place to be for living long.
>Generally (but always with exception) the larger and harder a seed is the longer
>it will last.  You can always try to start them, and if they aren't up in 10
>days, begin to lose hope.  You might try starting seeds in a warm place for
>best luck; my grandma has a lot of success on her dryer.  I've seen people use
>heating pads.  It can encourage seeds to start that might not otherwise.   Good luck!
>

Provided that they are kept dry in an air tight tin in a cool place,
the seeds should keep as on list below.As the years go by, fewer of
the seeds will germinate, you can compensate for this by planting
more of them. I have sucessfully kept seeds and germinated them
longer than the list below. Seed companies will always try to
convince you that you need fresh seed each year (in order to
maximise their profits).

One Year        Parsnips,Scorzonera,Any F1 hybrid 

Two Years       Turnips,Swedes,Peas,Broad Beans,French Beans,
                RunnerBeans ,Parsley,Spinach

Three Years     Leeks,Carrots, Mustard Cress,Sweet Corn

Four Years      Lettuce,Onion,Radish,Chinese Cabbage

Five Years      Cabbage,Cauliflower,Brocoli,Brussels Sprouts
                Kohl Rabi,Beetroot,Leaf Beat
                
Six years       Celery,Celeriac 

Seven Years     Marrows,Cucumbers,Melons,Courgettes,Pumpkins 


David J. Seabrook                Internet: dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net
Steyning, West Sussex.UK            "The Answer is in the soil"



From dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net Tue Jan 10 23:25:15 EST 1995
Article: 50785 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!ibmpcug!kate.ibmpcug.co.uk!deepbeds!dave
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <57@deepbeds.win-uk.net>
References: <3epgdh$hr6@newsbf02.news.aol.com><3eqdi3$f0b@uuneo.neosoft.com>
Reply-To: dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net (David  J Seabrook)
From: dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net (David  J Seabrook)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:59:48 GMT
Subject: Re: Seed Vitality Question
Lines: 46

 
In article <3eqdi3$f0b@uuneo.neosoft.com>, Chadd Knowlton (knowlton@neosoft.com) writes:
>In article <3epgdh$hr6@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, winedread@aol.com (WineDread) says:
>>
>>How long do different vegatable seeds stay vital in storage? I've heard
>>you can keep tomato seeds, for example, for several years. Supposedly you
>>have to start with fresh lettuce and onion seeds every year. Any comments
>>on other vegatable seeds such as peas, beans, melons, peppers, herb seeds,
>>etc. lasting in storage?
>>Thanks!
>
>
>Viability depends upon the conditions in which the seeds have been stored.
>High temperatures and low humidity will kill seeds faster.  For most seeds,
>in the dark of the refrigerator is the best place to be for living long.
>Generally (but always with exception) the larger and harder a seed is the longer
>it will last.  You can always try to start them, and if they aren't up in 10
>days, begin to lose hope.  You might try starting seeds in a warm place for
>best luck; my grandma has a lot of success on her dryer.  I've seen people use
>heating pads.  It can encourage seeds to start that might not otherwise.   Good luck!
>

Provided that they are kept dry in an air tight tin in a cool place,
the seeds should keep as on list below.As the years go by, fewer of
the seeds will germinate, you can compensate for this by planting
more of them. I have sucessfully kept seeds and germinated them
longer than the list below. Seed companies will always try to
convince you that you need fresh seed each year (in order to
maximise their profits).

One Year        Parsnips,Scorzonera,Any F1 hybrid 

Two Years       Turnips,Swedes,Peas,Broad Beans,French Beans,
                RunnerBeans ,Parsley,Spinach

Three Years     Leeks,Carrots, Mustard Cress,Sweet Corn

Four Years      Lettuce,Onion,Radish,Chinese Cabbage

Five Years      Cabbage,Cauliflower,Brocoli,Brussels Sprouts
                Kohl Rabi,Beetroot,Leaf Beat
                
Six years       Celery,Celeriac 

Seven Years     Marrows,Cucumbers,Melons,Courgettes,Pumpkins 


David J. Seabrook                Internet: dave@deepbeds.win-uk.net
Steyning, West Sussex.UK            "The Answer is in the soil"



From kdcutler@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:25:27 EST 1995
Article: 50664 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: A book with detailed examples?
Date: 8 Jan 1995 15:04:00 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3epgfg$hrj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <1994Dec26.130438.22797@aristo.tau.ac.il>
Reply-To: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)

You might try Maggie Oster's 35 GARDEN BLUEPRINTS. 
Good Luck.
Karan Davis Cutler, HARROWSMITH COUNTRY LIFE


From kdcutler@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:25:55 EST 1995
Article: 50667 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need tree catalog !
Date: 8 Jan 1995 15:20:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3epheq$hvv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3dpgg0$pr3@www.interramp.com>
Reply-To: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)

FORESTFARM (990 Tetherow Rd., Williams, OR 97544) has just about
everything.
Karan Davis Cutler, HARROWSMITH COUNTRY LIFE


From kdcutler@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:26:14 EST 1995
Article: 50667 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!swiss.ans.net!gatech!swrinde!pipex!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need tree catalog !
Date: 8 Jan 1995 15:20:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3epheq$hvv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3dpgg0$pr3@www.interramp.com>
Reply-To: kdcutler@aol.com (Kdcutler)

FORESTFARM (990 Tetherow Rd., Williams, OR 97544) has just about
everything.
Karan Davis Cutler, HARROWSMITH COUNTRY LIFE


From bob-taylor@nwu.edu Tue Jan 10 23:26:35 EST 1995
Article: 50833 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!mac150.acns.nwu.edu!user
From: bob-taylor@nwu.edu (Bob Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Request: Blackberry Information
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 20:45:15 -0600
Organization: Academic Computing & Network Services, Northwestern University
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <bob-taylor-1001952045150001@mac150.acns.nwu.edu>
References: <1867042781.22453751@lamgnet.lamg.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac150.acns.nwu.edu

In article <1867042781.22453751@lamgnet.lamg.com>, jberke@lamg.com wrote:

> Also, any
> suggestions for good sources for plants/rootstock?

I've always relied upon Nourse Farms (41 River Road, South Deerfield, MA
01373) for a superb collection of  bramble berries, strawberries, rhubarb,
and asparagus plants. They'll send you their excellent catalog for free.  
However, Nourse might be oriented more to the cold weather we get here in
the Midwest and East, not your Los Angeles climate... 

Good luck,
Bob


From bbeer@u.washington.edu Tue Jan 10 23:28:46 EST 1995
Article: 50680 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!bbeer
From: bbeer@u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: MEDITERRANEAN GARDEN SOCIETY
Date: 9 Jan 1995 00:03:25 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3epugd$6tp@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: saul4.u.washington.edu

A new garden society is being founded for those interested in 
Mediterranean plants.  They will have newsletters, journals, and a seed 
exchange.  

For more information, write:

Sally Razelou
Mediterranean Garden Society
Sparoza
Box 14
Peania   GR-19002
Greece



From afsan@io.org Tue Jan 10 23:30:15 EST 1995
Article: 50772 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!io.org!nobody
From: afsan@io.org (afsan)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Heirloom seeds available - toms+
Date: 8 Jan 1995 15:48:41 -0500
Organization: Heritage Seed Program (Canada)
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <3epj3a$epg@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bonk.io.org
Summary: I have a variety of heirloom and interesting veg. seeds available.
Keywords: heirloom seeds tomato bean vegetable

I have a selection of heirloom seeds available for trade (or other
arrangements).  The largest selection is in tomatoes but other species are
also represented.  If you are interested in a list, please email me.  Mike




From tom_foley.horticulture@server.hort.ncsu.edu Tue Jan 10 23:31:05 EST 1995
Article: 50724 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!kilgoregb3.hort.ncsu.edu!tom_foley.horticulture
From: Tom Foley, Jr. <tom_foley.horticulture@server.hort.ncsu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Mail order plants
Date: 9 Jan 1995 16:35:28 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University Arboretum
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3erokg$fib@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kilgoregb3.hort.ncsu.edu
X-Newsreader: Nuntius Version 1.2
X-XXMessage-ID: <AB36D0023A024C06@kilgoregb3.hort.ncsu.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:35:30 GMT

The question mail order vs. local is complex.  If you are looking for
new, unusual plants - often you can not fine these plants locally.  Buy
>from  a good mail order source.  

The question about a plant being more adaptable if you buy locally is
hogwash.  The plant will be hardy and adaptable to the area is in the
genes of that plant - i.e.  where the seed source comes from is
important.  Red maple (Acer rubrum) is native from Canada to Florida yet
a red maple from Florida will not be hardy in Canada.  To fully expalain
this problem is difficult.  Get a good book on plant adaptability.  The
NCSU Arboretum has a book that explains plant adaptbility.  We have been
able to grow over 6000 different woody plants from 42 countries and many
North American natives.  Many of these plantss are from mail order
nurseries.

I have brought plants from all over the country through good mail order
nurseries and have been very sucessful.  If you wouldl like a list of
these mail order nurseries I can e-mail them to you.


From winedread@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:32:37 EST 1995
Article: 50739 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: winedread@aol.com (WineDread)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Found Minute Pirate Bug Source
Date: 9 Jan 1995 13:42:38 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3es02u$red@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: winedread@aol.com (WineDread)

A while back there was some discussion about thrips and how to get rid of
them, and minute pirate bugs were mentioned as a good prederatory insect,
but no source was given.
A company called Arbico sells them at $73/5000 (the minimum order). They
also suggested that prederatory mites might also be a solution, at $3/1000
with a 5000 minimum order.
Arbico
P.O. Box 4247
Tucson, AZ 85738
(800) 827-2847


From winedread@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:33:21 EST 1995
Article: 50739 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: winedread@aol.com (WineDread)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Found Minute Pirate Bug Source
Date: 9 Jan 1995 13:42:38 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3es02u$red@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: winedread@aol.com (WineDread)

A while back there was some discussion about thrips and how to get rid of
them, and minute pirate bugs were mentioned as a good prederatory insect,
but no source was given.
A company called Arbico sells them at $73/5000 (the minimum order). They
also suggested that prederatory mites might also be a solution, at $3/1000
with a 5000 minimum order.
Arbico
P.O. Box 4247
Tucson, AZ 85738
(800) 827-2847


From garlandroz@aol.com Tue Jan 10 23:33:35 EST 1995
Article: 50752 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: garlandroz@aol.com (Garlandroz)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Herb Business
Date: 9 Jan 1995 19:52:15 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 15
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3eslnv$177@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: garlandroz@aol.com (Garlandroz)

Hi---
   I am hoping that someone out there can advise me as to the best way to
start making a little income on the side selling herbs.  I have done alot
of research and reading about making herbal products (vinegars, oils,
soap, candles, etc.) and have collected quite a number of recipes, but I
don't know if it would be more profitable to try and sell these kind of
items or just stick with potted herb plants, and packages of cut herbs to
cook with.  
   I have a greenhouse and it is about 2/3rds full of a variety of
herbs---all doing well despite the fluctuation of our North Texas weather.
(It was below freezing all last week and in the 70's this week!!!)  I just
would like to make a little money with them, and need some guidance as to
the easiest and best way to approach this.
   Thanks for any information!
Roz Garland              (Garlandroz@aol.com)


From en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Tue Jan 10 23:34:28 EST 1995
Article: 50774 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!en767
From: en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerald W. Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herb Business
Date: 10 Jan 1995 08:07:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3etf8m$ehf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nextsun.ins.cwru.edu


I have a file on my BBS called Herbfarm.txt. It is a serious,
specific, technical treatise on starting an herb business. I 
think it would be too long to send as a message, but you might
want to call the BBS and download it. The number is 503-843-4214.
There is another file called Outlooks.txt which discusses the
possibilities for production of herbs as a cash crop. There is
also a large archive of things herbal at ftp.sunsite.unc.edu
-- 
Trans-Pacific Nursery        Rare and Exotic Plants
Email catalog available      Timber Press books discounted


From en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Tue Jan 10 23:38:36 EST 1995
Article: 50774 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!en767
From: en767@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gerald W. Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Herb Business
Date: 10 Jan 1995 08:07:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3etf8m$ehf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nextsun.ins.cwru.edu


I have a file on my BBS called Herbfarm.txt. It is a serious,
specific, technical treatise on starting an herb business. I 
think it would be too long to send as a message, but you might
want to call the BBS and download it. The number is 503-843-4214.
There is another file called Outlooks.txt which discusses the
possibilities for production of herbs as a cash crop. There is
also a large archive of things herbal at ftp.sunsite.unc.edu
-- 
Trans-Pacific Nursery        Rare and Exotic Plants
Email catalog available      Timber Press books discounted


From bjerma@meaddata.com Tue Jan 10 23:38:48 EST 1995
Article: 50781 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!meaddata!bjerma
From: bjerma@meaddata.com (Brad Jerman)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Natural Predators
Date: 10 Jan 1995 12:12:38 GMT
Organization: LEXIS-NEXIS, Dayton, OH.
Lines: 30
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NNTP-Posting-Host: munich.meaddata.com

A few questions in one post (Please feel free to address any or all);

I was wondering if anyone knows if there is a natural predator for
Japanese beatles or June bugs???  Bats maybe? Praying mantis?

Does anyone know of a supplier of Lady bugs by mail? 

Do bat boxes/homes really work?

Are there mechanical bug catchers that work well? What about those
sticky red balls to protect apple trees? Are stink traps the only
way to reduce fly populations?

I have 4.2 acres with pond, garden and orchard and would like to keep
the place as natural as I can...  
The dog's, kid's, neighbor's and spouse's well being, is my primary
concern (although not necessarily in that order :). 

Thanks in advance,
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  Bradley S. Jerman                                                      +
+  bjerma@meaddata.com                                                    +
+  My opinions are my own, I just "wish" they were other people's.        +
+                                                                         +
+  No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.  The strongest     +
+  reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as +
+  a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.    +
+     - Thomas Jefferson, June 1776.                                      +
+         1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)          +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From Trees Tue Jan 10 23:38:53 EST 1995
Article: 50795 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!delphinium.cig.mot.com!mac-as-60.cig.mot.com!user
From: Trees ()
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Southern Hemisphere Trees/Shrubs
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:38:12 -0600
Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group
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Can anyone provide any information on growing Southern Hemisphere
trees/shrubs in hardiness zone 5?  I am looking for any positive/negative
experiences from those out there who have tried it.  Also appreciated are
sources for these plants and books or articles on the subject.  
In particular, plants like Nothofagus, Saxegothea, Fitzroya, Austrocedrus,
Araucaria, etc..., interest me.

Thank you for any help.


From WSNW43A@prodigy.com Tue Jan 10 23:38:58 EST 1995
Article: 50801 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: WSNW43A@prodigy.com (Ronald Manuel)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Exotic Seeds and the Unusual
Date: 10 Jan 1995 16:24:12 GMT
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X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

 Many Types
    For a catalog   Send $2 to  The Magic Basement
                                                  485 Oakshadow Way
                                                   Wellington Fl 33414



From annie@shore.net Tue Jan 10 23:39:38 EST 1995
Article: 50837 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!shore.shore.net!bertha27.shore.net!user
From: annie@shore.net (Shauna L. Rabinowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Need address of Smith & Hawkins
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 19:54:44 -0400
Organization: North Shore Access/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net)
Lines: 16
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Message-ID: <annie-1001951954440001@bertha27.shore.net>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: bertha27.shore.net

In article <3euj94$ooc@news.tamu.edu>, jmbond@tam2000.tamu.edu (John M.
Bond) wrote:

> Hi,
> Can someone email me the address/phone number of Smith & Hawkins?  Thanks
> in advance.
> 
> John
> jmbond@tamu.edu


The address is: Two Arbor Lane, Box 6900
                Florence, KY 41022-6900
phone is (800)776-3336
 
Annie : )


From ulsander@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu Wed Jan 11 00:06:08 EST 1995
Article: 50842 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!ulsander
From: ulsander@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Laura Sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Calling Container Gardeners
Date: 11 Jan 1995 04:30:57 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Lines: 10
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References: <3evk6e$7p8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ecom1.ecn.bgu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

UrbynGardn (urbyngardn@aol.com) wrote:
: Hello All Container Gardeners!

: At the risk of setting myself up for a big flame here, I wanted to tell
: all of you of a little catalog mail order business I started called "The
: Urbyn Gardyn".  

Okay, Marie, how can we get your catalogue?




From dclark@wellspring.us.dg.com Wed Jan 11 21:52:58 EST 1995
Article: 50903 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!hookup!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!dg-rtp!webo!wellspring.us.dg.com!dclark
From: dclark@wellspring.us.dg.com (Dave Clark)
Subject: Re: Composting? & New Book
Sender: usenet@us.dg.com (Usenet Administration)
Message-ID: <dclark.70.0010D742@wellspring.us.dg.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:50:20
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Organization: Data General Corp.  Westboro, MA
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
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In article <3emkt1$7rj@krel.iea.com> n0dh@comtch.iea.com (D.C. Henderson) writes:
>From: n0dh@comtch.iea.com (D.C. Henderson)
>Subject: Re: Composting? & New Book
>Date: 7 Jan 1995 18:01:05 GMT

>pp001306@interramp.com wrote:

>: My Wife received a new book yesterday, "Herb Gardening", one of the
>: American Garden Guides, ISBN 0-679-41432-0. It's great but one particular
>: item suprised her. In a section on composting it said that you should
>: not put CITRUS skins etc. in to compost. This is the first time we had
>: seen this. Anyone else have a comment about this.

>I imagine that the citrus skins would make for a "very very acid" 
>compost, so much so that it might burn plants with the "citric acid" in the 
>skins.

>On the other hand I grew some of the best garlic in my life in a raised 
>bed filled with composted orange skins and grass clippings...go figure!

I would suspect it's because of the large ammounts of chemicals used to grow 
citrus contaminating the compost.  But this brings up a particular pet peeve 
of mine.  I hate it when I read something that tells me not to do something 
and doesn't say why.  Would it really have hurt the author to say "Don't put 
citrus skins in because..."  These newsgroups are filled with people searching 
for answers that should be answered at the source.


--------------------
Dave Clark - Data General Corp. Westboro, MA
dclark@wellspring.us.dg.com

Opinions expressed are my own.  Any resemblance to other opinions
living or dead are purely coincidental.
--------------------


From Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us Sat Jan 28 23:35:39 EST 1995
Article: 52036 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!aicrtp!Uaic
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Message-ID: <30@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us>
References: <3e4fe9$6fv@netfs.dnd.ca> <3ehl6n$2oq@decaxp.harvard.edu> <B27Zi6G.salmon@delphi.com><3ftjkr$3q@news.xs4all.nl>
Reply-To: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
From: Uaic@aicrtp.aic.rtp.nc.us (Dick Gilman)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 22:46:56 GMT
Subject: Re: Garden/Landscaping Design Software for Windows
Lines: 14

 
There are two programs that I found.

LandDesignerpro - Green thumb software - 75 manhattan dr. ste 100 -
boulder co 80303 - 800-336-3127 - 303499-1388 price 395.00 call
for information

Landcadd for windows - 7388 s revere pkw bldg 900 ste 901-902
englewood co 80112-3942 phone 800-876-5263 - 303-799-3600 This
package works under autocadd as well as windows.  This is a very
high level package. 

They will send demos out of both to show results.  I have ordered
the demos and will let you know. 



From karenp@sybase.com Sat Jan 28 23:37:29 EST 1995
Article: 52374 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!portal.gmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!halon!sybase!karenp
From: karenp@sybase.com (Karen Paulsell)
Subject: Re: Bat Houses?
Message-ID: <D31pGC.But@sybase.com>
Sender: usenet@sybase.com
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
References: <3fu689$l3c@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 03:52:59 GMT
Lines: 28

In article <3fu689$l3c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> millerandy@aol.com (Millerandy) writes:
>Hi - I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I am interested in building
>a bat house in my garden.   Anybody have any ideas about building them? 

One of my friends here in the East Bay, a real bat-fan, said she was
considering a bat house, but most of the articles she read always talked
about how many mosquitos bats could eat...and we hardly have any of
them: when the weather's hot enough, there's almost no standing water
for the larva. (I am not complaining, mind you!) So she thought
there weren't enough bugs around for bats here?

Seems to me, though, that even without skeeters, there's plenty
of bugs in the world, even in this part of it?

Though I admit, in spite of my night-time slug-hunting by flashlight,
which often blends into star-gazing, moon-gazing, jet-watching, and
police-helicopter surveillance, I've never seen a bat in Oakland, or
in SF where I used to live.  I once-in-while saw them when I lived in
Kansas City, but never in the Bay Area. It's quite a kick, flitting
zigzags of action, silhouetted against the stars and sky. Flit-flit-
flit, did I see it? Did I not?

I did see the recent article in the SF Chronicle that featured bats,
and the Napa/Sonoma wineries that encouraged bats. One winery
was quite proud to house a colony of a rare and endangered species.
I thought having some of those really pale-colored ones would make
it easier to spot them at night. Come on, they gotta be almost as
much fun as having goldfish, you can't pet either of them!


From p-leppi@uiuc.edu Sat Jan 28 23:45:24 EST 1995
Article: 51970 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!leppik
From: p-leppi@uiuc.edu (Peter Leppik)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses,rec.answers,news.answers
Subject: Plants By Mail FAQ
Supersedes: <mail-plants-ver0004@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Date: 23 Jan 1995 16:38:21 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU
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NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Summary: This FAQ contains information about buying plants and garden
    supplies through the mail.  It includes suggestions, information
    about what to expect, and a lengthy list of mail-order companies.
    Opionions about some companies (derived from experiences with those
    companies) are included.
Originator: leppik@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:51970 rec.gardens.roses:3109 rec.answers:9482 news.answers:35069

Archive-name: plants-by-mail
Posting-Frequency: bimonthly (sporadic)

                Plants By Mail FAQ

                 by Peter Leppik
                 p-leppi@uiuc.edu

This document is intended to introduce readers to the world of buying
plants by mail order; and also to serve as a central clearinghouse for
information about contacting various mail order plant houses.  I make
no claims about being more informed on this topic than your average
Joe, but I saw the need, and I'm willing to put forth the effort to
compile and maintain this.

History:
  Updated: 1/22/95
    Major revisions.  Most of the section on mail-order companies has
    been moved out of the FAQ.  It is now available via the World Wide
    Web <URL:http://seidel.ncsa.uiuc.edu/PBM-FAQ/>.  For those without
    access to WWW (i.e. Mosaic, Netscape, lynx), I will E-mail copies of
    this section upon request.  Please don't request unless you really
    don't have WWW access, though, since I don't want to be flooded.
  Updated: 7/12/94
  Updated: 4/30/94
  Originally Created: 3/17/94 (late at night)

Contents:

   I. Introduction
   II. But First, A Word From Our Lawyers
   III. How To Tell a Good Company from a Bad One
       (or: Things To Look For Before Taking the Plunge)
   IV. What To Do When Your Order Arrives
       (or: OhMyGawd!  There's No DIRT With These Plants!)
   V. Which Catalog To Order From
   VI. Mail Order Houses, How to Contact Them, and My Opinions Thereof
   VII. But Before We Go....


I. Introduction

It seems that one of the most common article titles in rec.gardens is,
"How can I reach XYZZY?" or, "The Plugh company sent me a catalog.  Are
they any good?"  I hope to be able to answer some of these questions in
a reasonably definitive manner (the first is easy, the second harder),
and provide the neophyte with some introduction to buying plants by mail.

My experience in this area has been short, but intense.  After finally
moving from a small condo into a real house (with a YARD and a GARDEN
even!) in 1993, one of my first projects was to begin widespread
replanting of the yard (which is mostly boring grass, or very ugly
hybrid poplars).  To do that, I began ordering large numbers of bulbs
and plants from a number of mail-order houses.  Some were good, some
were bad, and I learned a lot about what to look for and what to avoid.

I welcome any and all comments.  Send them to my E-mail address above.
If there is some catalog not covered here which you think should be, by
all means let me know.  If you do send me comments, PLEASE please respect
my poor, overworked mailer.  I've had people resend me the entire FAQ just
for a few lines of comments, and I even had one person send me a bunch of
UUencoded binary pictures!  Needless to say, this doesn't help me much, and
it wastes my disk space.  That said....do send comments, because
they do help!

At the end of this document, there is a URL address where you can find an
HTML version of this FAQ.  If you don't know what HTML is, don't sweat it.
If you do, then you can get this FAQ there.

I assume that, if you send me comments, you don't mind if they find their
way into a future edition.  I'll try to verify this, but sometimes I forget.  Thus, if you DON'T want you name in a future edition of the FAQ, be sure
to say so.

Finally, I used to include an extensive list of mail-order companies in
this FAQ, along with my comments (and comments of others).  Unfortunately,
it got to the point where the list was considerably larger than the rest of
the FAQ.  Instead of splitting the FAQ into several parts (which I
considered doing), I decided to move the list of mail-order houses onto
the World Wide Web.  There are several reasons why I did this.  First, I
didn't want to contribute to the already overwhelming volume on rec.gardens.
Second, the WWW is a much better tool for presenting this information, and
more and more people have access to it these days, thanks to the popularity
of Mosaic and Netscape.  Finally, it is much easier for me to maintain the
FAQ on the Web than in the text version, and even easier to have to do
only one of the two.  This means that the FAQ will probably get updated
and posted more often, rather than going for months between updates.

There is still the problem, though, of people who don't have WWW access.
If you don't have WWW access, and you want the list of companies, send me
E-mail, and I'll send you the list.  Beware, though, the list is long,
and it may look strange (with all kinds of HTML formatting characters).


II. But First, A Word From Our Lawyers

All opinions in this document are the opinions of the author, unless
otherwise noted.  The author is well-known for his arbitrary and
capricious judgments, and cannot be held liable for anything he says
herein.  Besides, the author is a poor grad student, and suing him is
like trying to squeeze blood from a rock.


III. How To Tell a Good Company from a Bad One
    (or: Things To Look For Before Taking the Plunge)

If you are like me, you probably have a dozen or two catalogs from various
places, some fancy, others plain, and you're wondering who to order from
and how to tell the difference between a place that really cares, and a place
that is just trying to unload some poor, pathetic bits of green stuff on
The Gullible Majority.  In this section, I will outline what I think a
good mail order company should do, and what you should consider before
buying a plant sight-unseen.  Keep in mind that this is aimed at the
relative neophyte, who needs a little more service than the extremely
experienced gardener....there are plenty of companies which provide good
plants, but don't offer the level of service than many gardeners need.

   What a Good Mail-Order Company Will Do

1) Every perennial in the catalog should have a clearly indicated hardiness
range.  That is, for every perennial (anything you expect to last more than
one year) should have indicated which USDA hardiness zones it will survive in.
Simple adjectives like "hardy," or "tender," are NOT sufficient.  Perhaps I am
biased, being a Minnesota native currently living in Illinois, but I have seen
too many catalogs which do not include this crucial information.  Without
knowing this, it is too easy to buy plants that won't survive in your climate.
This also includes those of you who live in places like Southern California,
where it never gets cold, since some plants require a period of cold
temperatures every year in order to survive/bloom/etc.

2) Every plant should have its botanical (scientific) name listed.  Of course,
this doesn't count for things like roses or tomatoes, which everybody knows
what that are.  This may sound picky, but think about it: if you ever want
to get information on this plant from some other source, and they use their
own name, you might have a devil of a time figuring out how to get
information.  A plant's botanical name is unique.  I have seen places that
will take a standard variety of some plant, come up with a flashy
(trademarked) name, and sell it as something special.  Needless to say,
this is dishonest.

3) Information on the habitat requirements should be easy to find.  By this,
I mean answers to questions like, how much sun does it need, how much water,
and so forth.  Nearly every catalog has this, but if you see one that
doesn't, stay away.

4) A good company will be able to answer questions about their products.
Really, this is basic.  If you call them, and ask about something, they
should be able to answer your question.  If they can only take orders,
this is a Bad Sign.  (By the way, in many places, you can call your local
County Extension office to get information about plants, too.)

Finally, something that you should probably ignore:

5) Every mail order catalog that I've seen offers some sort of guarantee.
This should NOT be a factor in deciding where to buy from.  After all, what
good does it do if they replace a plant that died because you can't grow
oranges in Alaska?  The replacement will just die, too, and you'll spend
twice as much time on a plant that was Never Meant To Be.  Some people
have even noted an inverse relation between the quality of the guarantee
and the quality of the plants: the louder the company proclaims its
"FOOLPROOF 100% MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE," the worse the plants are when
they arrive.

   What To Consider Before Taking the Plunge

Okay, so you've got your heart set on the beautiful Creeping Green Stuff.
Before plunking your money and time on it (usually more time than money),
you should stop and ask yourself a few questions:

1) Will it grow in my area?  If they don't make it CLEAR (i.e. by telling
you the hardiness zone), then avoid that plant, or buy it from somebody who
will tell you.

2) Do I have a place to put it?  It is very easy to get spring fever when
all the catalogs start arriving midwinter, and wind up buying enough
plants to cover every square inch of your yard two or three times over.
Make sure you have a specific place for each and every plant you order, and
make sure you will have the time to plant it when it arrives.  Keep in
mind that you will probably have to plant them soon after they arrive,
and you might not be able to control the exact day they arrive.  Thus,
ordering 150 bushes for a new hedge from one place, all of which will
arrive via UPS on the same day and need to be planted immediately, is
probably not a good idea.  Believe me.  I've done it.

3) Will it really look the way I want it to?  Keep in mind that the
pictures in the catalogs are designed to sell plants, and the plants in
your garden will generally not look quite as nice.  I have seen a lot of
comments from people in rec.gardens about the rose Blue Girl as a particular
offender in this respect.  Also keep in mind that illustrations (and
photographs) can be very deceptive.


IV. What To Do When Your Order Arrives
    (or: OhMyGawd!  There's No DIRT With These Plants!)

The most important thing to do when your order arrives is DON'T PANIC!

Good.  Take a few deep breaths.

The reason your roses/trees/whatever arrived without any dirt is not because
the company sent you dead plants.  Shipping woody plants without dirt
("bare-root") is standard.  First, it does not harm the plants
much, as long as the company has taken steps to ensure that the roots don't
dry out.  Usually, this involves dipping the roots in some sort of stuff
that helps retain moisture.  Second, shipping plants bare-root helps keep
shipping costs down.  Shipping with dirt could easily double or triple the
weight of the plant when shipped, and make it that much more expensive to
buy.  Finally, shipping plants bare-root helps prevent the spread of pests
that live in the soil (like the Japanese beetle).  Needless to say,
unless you're buying small seedlings, it would be expensive for a company to
grow all their stock in greenhouses.

There are a few places which ship plants in pots.  Shipping a plant with the
dirt will be less traumatic to the plants, and, as a rule, you can expect
these plants to be healthier, but, because of shipping expenses, they will
often also be much smaller than bare-root plants--and more expensive.  Given
the option, I will usually buy the plant shipped in a pot, since the quality
is often much higher.  In addition, there are some plants which have to be
shipped in pots, simply because they're too fragile otherwise.

Generally, you will get a little booklet with your order explaining how
to plant your new plants.  Usually, the first thing to do (with bare root
plants) is to stick them in a bucket of water for some time.  You should do
this as soon as they arrive.  Then, dig a hole according to the booklet
instructions, and plant those buggers.

It may take some time for your new plants to leaf out, especially if they're
dormant when shipped.  Again, don't panic.  If you planted in the spring,
don't call the company to complain that the plants are dead until midsummer.
They'll just tell you to wait, because sometimes the plants take a while to
adjust to their new surroundings.


V. Which Catalog To Order From

If you are buying roses, you should certainly order from a catalog which
specializes in roses.  There are quite a few of these catalogs, and you will
generally get better selection, quality, and price than you would from buying
>from  a catalog which doesn't specialize in roses.

For some reason, this rule of thumb seems to be the other way around when
buying bulbs.  I have had the best experiences buying bulbs from White Flower
Farms, which is generally an outstanding catalog, but they aren't even
remotely limited to bulbs.  My worst experiences, on the other hand, were
with places that sell only, or mainly bulbs.  Go figure.

Not everybody will agree with my judgments.  After much consideration (and
several long discussions on the order of "Company X isn't really THAT bad!"),
I've decided that the main consideration has to be consistency.  That means
that I can count on large plants, of a uniformly high quality, every time I
order.  Note, too, that I haven't yet had anyone take issue with my list of
"Good" companies, just the "Bad" ones.  Having said that, here is my list of
best and worst companies, based primarily on my personal experiences:

Really Good Companies:

  White Flower Farms
  Nor'East Miniature Roses
  Heirloom Old Garden Roses (but see below)
  Gardener's Supply Company
  Shepherd's Garden Seeds

Companies To Avoid:

  Spring Hill
  Michigan Bulb Co.
  Breck's Bulbs

VI. Mail Order Houses, How to Contact Them, and My Opinions Thereof

There are literally hundreds--if not thousands--of mail-order plant
companies.  I used to include a list of companies here, but it has
become unmanagable.  So, to make the list easier to deal with, I've
moved it out of the FAQ, and onto the World Wide Web.  If you have
access to Mosaic, Netscape, Lynx, or any of the other Web browsers,
my list of mail order companies, how to contact them, and comments
that I (and others) have is available at:

http://seidel.ncsa.uiuc.edu/PBM-FAQ/

If you DON'T have access to the Web, I'll be happy to send you the list
(and the comments, etc.) via E-mail.  Just beware: the whole thing is
quite long.  If you just want information on a particular company or three,
you might want to ask about those specifically.  My E-mail address is
p-leppi@uiuc.edu.

If you have had experience with any mail-order company, good or bad, I
want to hear about it!  Your experiences will help other gardeners.
Please, send any comments you have to me, at the above E-mail address.
I'll include them in the on-line database, unless you don't want me to.

Finally, I know of only one company with an E-mail address.  If you know
of others, please let me know.  It would be really nice to have a list
of places to buy plants via E-mail (or get information, for that matter).

Here are the entries from the on-line database on those companies listed
above as my best and worst.  For each company, I will list their name,
mailing address, phone number, a general description of what they sell,
and my opinions.  Opinions are strictly mine, unless otherwise noted.
I will not indicate an opinion unless I have actually ordered something
>from  a company, unless the opinion is someone else's.

------

Breck's Bulbs
U.S. Reservation Center
6523 North Galena Rd.
Peoria, IL  61632
Orders: (309) 689-3870

Breck's sells bulbs imported from Holland: tulips, crocuses, daffodils, etc.

OPINION: Overall, I am not terribly impressed with Breck's.  Their merchandise
(contrary to the catalog hype) is not particularly premium, but their prices
are higher than most places, even some places which have superior stock.
They do not list hardiness for anything, though most of what they sell should
do fine most places in the U.S. (they don't sell any of the really tender
bulbs, like glads).  You can do better elsewhere.

Note that Breck's Bulbs appears to be the same company, or closely associated
with, Spring Hill, another company on my "Avoid" list.



------

Gardener's Supply Co.
128 Intervale Rd.
Burlington, VT  05401
Orders/Customer Service: (802) 863-1700
TDD: (802) 660-3530
Fax: (802) 660-4600

All kinds of gardening supplies, and a few plants.

OPINION: I have had good experiences with this company.  Their products
appear to be of a uniformly high quality, and a lot of people in rec.gardens
swear by them.  At least one of their employees reads this newsgroup, so
you may be able to get answers "from the horse's mouth," if you know who
to ask.  If anybody can supply me with his E-mail address, I would appreciate
it (for future editions).

------

Heirloom Old Garden Roses
24062 NE Riverside Dr.
St. Paul, OR  91737
Orders: (503) 538-1576

This is a catalog of "old" roses: not a hybrid tea to be found.  If you're
looking for english or unusual roses, this is the place to go.

OPINION: If you are a rose grower, and you are still growing hybrid teas,
this catalog will convert you.  Many of the old roses offered here are just
as good, if not better than, the more common modern roses.  The catalog offers
a lot of information about a zillion different roses, including hardiness,
and (my favorite) lists of roses well-suited for particular uses (i.e.
roses for growing over trellises, roses for scent, etc.).  Their stock is
first-rate, and all grown on its own roots, so there are no bud unions to
worry about.  There is no separate phone number for questions, but I found
the people answering the phone to be knowledgeable and helpful.  Two thumbs
up.  Note that they charge $5 for the catalog, but once you're on their
mailing list (i.e. after you buy something), they'll send it free.

Kristin Bruneau <KBRUNEAU@ssc-f1.umd.umich.edu>reports a different story:
About a month or so ago on rec.gardens.rose people started to discuss 
their experiences with the company.  Over all it was very negative.  
Some of the major complaints were that the plants were too young (9 
months or less), you never knew when they would get around to 
shipping your plant (some waited over a year), and the owners were 
very nasty when you had a problem (and basically said that's too 
bad).  The only reason I am passing this along is that the responses 
were consistently bad and many people's stories were extreme (no 
roots on the rose, horribly nasty experiences with the staff).

I too had a bad experience with them.  I ordered from them last year 
for the first time.  Even though the rose was in stock when I called 
in May, I had still not received it in July.  I had to call up and 
raise a fuss before they finally agreed to send it out.  Gosh only 
knows when I would have received it if I left it up to them.  When it 
arrived it only had two canes, one completely stripped off and 
dangling from the plant.  It only had two leaves on it and came with 
the worlds biggest slug that was the size of a nickle and covered in 
yellow fringe (Yuck!).  I called them to complain and their response 
was basically "Oh".  They only guarantee for the plants to arrive in 
good condition so I called.  I did not want it replaced at that time 
because it would be too late in the season to plant another one (if 
they finally got around to sending it to me).  I told them that I 
expected them to replace it if it died.  They finally agreed.  Well, 
at first it dropped the only two leaves that it had and I thought it 
would die.  After a while it did come back though.  It is doing ok, 
not great.  The rose was Rosa Rugosa, basically a weed.  Maybe that 
explains why I was so lucky it made it.

Anyway, since Heirloom Old Garden Roses was on the highly recommended 
list I thought I'd pass these experiences along.  I know that 
different people have different experiences and that we must weigh 
that in our minds when we order.  Just my 2 cents worth.

[I don't know if this is due to temporary management problems, or something
deeper.  I'm going to keep this company on my "good guys" list for the time
being, because of my good experiences, but I would appreciate any comments.]


------

Michigan Bulb Co.
1950 Waldorf NW
Grad Rapids, MI  49550-0500

Michigan Bulb Company sells bulbs, perennials, and other assorted plants.

OPINION: This catalog is filled with the kind of BREATHLESS PROSE and
AMAZING BARGAINS designed to stampede the gardener into making impulse
purchases.  Their prices are cheap, but selection is limited, and quality
was very mediocre.  In addition, I was unable to find a phone number anywhere
in the catalog--this could be a real problem, if you have problems with your
order.  To their credit, they generally include hardiness information.
On the other hand, they also sell the "Blue Girl" rose, which is an automatic
two demerits in my book.  Go elsewhere.

jsr@geneab.b23a.ingr.com (Jeff Reifsteck) reports:
I've had nothing but bad news from Michigan Bulb.  The plants were poor and
didn't survive.  They did replace them without question but my 40 creeping
myrtle (6" evergreen ground cover) became 40 crape myrtle (a big bush and
a lot more expensive).  I needed ground cover not bushes.  Except for the 
replacement of a "Blue Girl" rose all the other replacements were not plantable.

apilote@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Angela Pilote) reports:
Last year I ordered some things from them -- NEVER AGAIN!
I even told my husband to remind me of the poor quality
of there plants and bulbs if he even SEES me *looking* at one
of their catalogs.
None of the plants survived and only about half (maybe less)
of the bulbs came up. The bulbs also seemed very small
and I think I read somewhere that this is a sign that the
bulbs have not matured enough to bloom.
The prices seem to be good, but if you factor in the survival
rate and time invested -- it's not a deal. I'm better off paying
premium prices at my nursery for good quality plants and bulbs.

Evelyn Walker <ewalker@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> reports:
I have ordered perinnals from Michigan Bulb company, the first year
the blooms are not so big, but usually the second year it is bigger,
If you plant them in a fertilized area the plants do a lot better.
I have shasta daisies, carnations, guardinalla or whatever. I was
really pleased with it. I plan on getting a few more for some bare spots
in my yard

------

Nor'East Miniature Roses, Inc.
P.O. Box 307
Rowley, MA  01969
Phone: (508) 948-7964
Orders: 1-800-426-6485

On the West Coast:

Nor'East Miniature Roses, Inc.
P.O. Box 473
Ontario, CA  91762
Phone: (909) 984-2223
Orders: 1-800-662-9669

A large selection of miniature roses, and some supplies for those who like
to grow them (like miniature vases)

OPINION: This company is also on my "Good-Guys" list.  Their prices are
quite reasonable, and their stock is high quality.  Their catalog has a photo
of many of the offerings.  If you are into miniature roses (or would like to
be), this is the catalog to get.

lori@phantom.com reports:
cheap cute lil'roses.

------

Shepherd's Garden Seeds
30 Irene St.
Torrington, CT  06790
Orders: East (203) 482-3638
        West (408) 335-6910
Customer Service: (203) 482-3638
Horticultural Help: (408) 335-6910

Shepherd's sells mostly seeds, but also a few plants, and some kitchen and
garden supplies.

OPINION: The stylish illustrations in this catalog give it a distinctly
yuppie feel, but this is a good catalog nevertheless.  They have a number
of varieties that are hard to find elsewhere (a whole PAGE of ornamental
sunflowers!), and a wealth of useful horticultural information.  My order
arrived promptly, in good order, and appears to be high quality (it is still
a little soon for things to be sprouting around here, though).  Prices are
a little above average, but seeds are cheap no matter how you slice it.

------

Spring Hill
Mail Order Reservation Center
6523 North Galena Rd.
P.O. Box 1758
Peoria, IL  61656-1758
Orders: (309) 689-3800
Customer Service: (309) 689-3849

Spring Hill sells just about any kind of plant that catches their fancy.

OPINION: Spring Hill is one of these places that is in the business of
dumping cheap, inappropriate merchandise on unsuspecting customers.  The
quality of their merchandise is mediocre, even though the prices are about
average.  The provide little or no hardiness information, which is especially
troublesome considering that they sell some plants (like carnations) for
outdoor planting, even though they will not survive the winter in large
portions of the U.S.  Furthermore, if you ever buy anything from Spring Hill,
you will be on their mailing list but good.  I have received no less than
four different catalogs from them in the last two months (not even counting
the large number of "special offers" which seem to arrive about once a week,
and at least one telemarketing call).  Avoid this company like the plague.

Note that Spring Hill appears to be the same company, or closely associated
with, Breck's Bulbs, another company on my "Avoid" list.

Al Harrington [alh@hprnd.rose.hp.com] says:
I think you are being way to hard on Spring Hill.  I realize that 
they do not supply hardiness information, and that some of their 
plants are not in the best shape - their customer service is very
good.  I purchased the carnation collection (15 plants) and 2 of 
them died.  I got credited for all 15 as it was a collection.  

I ordered a lot of stuff from them (over 100 plants) and just about 
all are doing just fine - what isn't I get credit for.  

If nothing else seeing color pictures of *everything* they sell is 
nice.  :-)

------

White Flower Farm
Litchfield, CT  06759-0050
Orders: (203) 496-9600

White Flower Farm sells just about every kind of ornamental plant that one
might reasonably want to grow in North America.

OPINION: I will state my bias right up front: White Flower Farm is far and
away my favorite catalog.  They have a reputation for being "upscale,"
but their prices are only slightly above average.  Their catalog offers
a wealth of useful horticultural information, along with interesting
commentary about each and every plant.  All the information you need to know
(hardiness, planting requirements, light requirements, etc.) is compiled
in a single useful index, as well as being stated with the description of
each plant.  The catalog is organized alphabetically by genus name, so
in addition to being fun to read (and look at the pictures), it makes a
very useful reference.  Of course, the catalog is only secondary to the
merchandise.  Fortunately, their produce more than lives up to the high
standards set by the catalog: it is absolutely first rate.  When I was buying
daylillies, crocuses, and daffodils from White Flower Farm and other
catalogs, the bulbs or roots from White Flower were often more than twice
the size of the ones from other vendors, and at a comparable price.
Even if you never buy anything from White Flower Farm, you should get their
catalog as a reference, since it is almost as good as buying a book on
ornamental plants, but a whole lot cheaper.

Sean A. O'Hara (saouc@uccmvsa.bitnet) disagrees with some of my tone:
Not really a flame, but please!  I have a few of White Flower Farm's 
catalogues, and I do value them for their reference quality and nice 
photographs.  But their plants and garden information is distinctively East 
Coast in character.  I would very much enjoy growing a number of plants they 
list, but no longer attempt such folly as they are definitely inappropriate 
for my arid western climate (as would many of the plants I cherish in my 
garden be inappropriate for yours).

Please, let us not forget those 'less fortunate' souls who garden elsewhere! 
North America is a big place, and I do not expect my garden to look like 
your any more that I expect your to look like mine.

This reminds me of the search for a "North American gardening style".  I can 
think of nothing more ridiculous to search for - as if it could ever be 
defined for a continent like ours - or that you'd want to try!  This has 
always been a way to 'one up' the 'English style'.  Well, England is a 
relatively small place, and even then it contains diversity more than we 
imagine.

[I must plead guilty here.  Perhaps I should have said that they sell "just
about any ornamental plant one might reasonably want to grow East of the
Rockies...."]

lori@phantom.com reports:
I ordered fuscia (vodoo and swarthy gem) which aren't 
doing so well.  Tristar Strawberry plants satisfactory.  Begonia tubers 
mediocre.  I also liked the catalog ;-)

-----


VII. But Before We Go....

I hope this FAQ has been useful.  I also hope it has been accurate.  If you
find any mistakes, or have any comments, please send me E-mail at the
address listed at the top of the file.  Any suggestions for improving
future editions will be happily accepted, and possibly even acted upon.

This FAQ is also available via the World Wide Web.  The URL is:

http://seidel.ncsa.uiuc.edu/PBM-FAQ/

The WWW version includes everything in this file, plus an extensive (and
growing!) list of mail-order companies.  I also include comments on a
number of the companies, to help choose which are good, and which are
not worth it.

(NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO HAS READ THIS BEFORE!  THE URL HAS CHANGED!)
-- 
	                                   Peter Leppik--  p-leppi@uiuc.edu
Lost in the Information Supercollider

http://jean-luc.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/PeterL/HOME.html


From kolling@adobe.com Sat Jan 28 23:45:36 EST 1995
Article: 51986 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!decwrl!adobe!kolling
From: kolling@adobe.com (Karen Kolling)
Subject: Re: Plants By Mail FAQ (Gardener's Supply)
Message-ID: <1995Jan23.191137.27691@adobe.com>
Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
References: <mail-plants-ver0005@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:11:37 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <mail-plants-ver0005@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> p-leppi@uiuc.edu writes:
>...
>Really Good Companies:
>
>  White Flower Farms
>  Nor'East Miniature Roses
>  Heirloom Old Garden Roses (but see below)
>  Gardener's Supply Company
>  Shepherd's Garden Seeds

The Gardener's Supply people are great folks.  I ordered a humongeous
light fixture from them and UPS apparently dropped it in shipping,
slightly denting inwards one end so I couldn't install the bulbs.  GS
took it back without a peep.  I have placed at least five orders for
various things over the past 2-3 years and been very pleased.  Their
order takers all seem to be gardeners.

Also, they credited my charge account twice for the return, (due to a
disk crash, as it turned out), and when I called to let them know, they
said thanks, and a few days later a freebie thank you package of maple syrup
>from  one of their employee's subbusinesses showed up.


From conrad@richters.com Sat Jan 28 23:46:52 EST 1995
Article: 52089 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!hookup!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!richtr!conrad
From: conrad@richters.com (Conrad Richter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Growing Herbs Indoors
Message-ID: <9e2eZc7w165w@richters.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 23:38:43 EST
References: <1732FA44AS86.MH7709A@american.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Richters Herbs
Lines: 26

MH7709A@american.edu (Melissa C. Hicks) writes:

>   I want to have fresh herbs on hand for cooking.  Can I grow herbs indoors
>  year round?  What do I need to do?  I really like oregano, basil, and thyme.

Yes, it is possible to grow indoors year round, but it takes work and 
it requires the right conditions.  Herbs need *lots* of light.  If you 
don't have four hours of direct sunlight, forget it.  The more the 
better; if necessary, position your herbs next to your brightest window
and supplement with artficial light.  Next point, make sure drainage 
is excellent, and soil is reasonably fertile.  The larger the container 
the better because the extra room for the roots will give you stronger 
plants and better yields.  And don't overharvest; indoor plants cannot 
yield anything like the amounts you might be accustomed to getting from 
outdoor grown plants. 

I hope I haven't discouraged you!  Having fresh herbs ready at hand 
is wonderful.  

Conrad Richter



RICHTERS HERBS                     | Info:                 info@richters.com
Goodwood, ON  L0C 1A0, Canada      | Catalog Requests:  catalog@richters.com
Tel +1-905-640-6677  Fax 640-6641  | What's New for '95:    new@richters.com


From collinsj@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu Sat Jan 28 23:47:55 EST 1995
Article: 52469 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!mailer.acns.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!freenet3.scri.fsu.edu!not-for-mail
From: collinsj@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Julie Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden catalogs
Date: 27 Jan 1995 21:25:29 -0500
Organization: Tallahassee Free-Net
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <3gc9up$h6n@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
References: <3g1cfp$kbp@chinacat.cwa.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.scri.fsu.edu

One of my favorites is the Shepherd's Garden Seeds catalog.  Each
cover is a wonderful watercolor painting and they carry international
varieties of several vegetables, herbs and flowers.  This year's
catalog has eleven different basils!  (my favorite so far: basil
genova profumatissima "perfume basil")

No glossy, full-color photos of what the plants will look like, but
great selections.  Shepherd's has two phone numbers:

	California	408/335-6910
	Connecticut	203/482-3638


jenifer@cwa.com (Jenifer Weinstock) writes:
> I would appreciate the phone number(s) for Johnny's Selected Seeds at least.  Any others would be appreciated, as well.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> JW
> 
> 
-- 
                                   


From bob.batson@sound.com Sat Jan 28 23:48:01 EST 1995
Article: 52309 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!sound!bob.batson
Distribution: world
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden catalogs
From: bob.batson@sound.com (Bob Batson)
Message-ID: <6b.10217.2616@sound.com>
References: <3g4062$6j7@gw.PacBell.COM>
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 19:15:00 -0600
Organization: Sound Advice, Inc. 816-436-1492
Lines: 18

In a message dated 01-24-95, Brian Korbelik said to All:

> Message-ID: <3g4062$6j7@gw.PacBell.COM>

>Could someone please post the address for seeds of change.

        SEEDS OF CHANGE
        PO Box 15700
        Santa Fe, NM 87506-5700


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson                              L 39 12 14 N  94 33 16 W
bob.batson@sound.com                    USDA Zone 5
bob@interstate.net
---
 þ MR/2 2.11 #243 þ 3 things occur when you age.. 1) memory goes 2) uh.. um..


From garyy@boi.hp.com Sat Jan 28 23:48:07 EST 1995
Article: 52126 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!hp-cv!hp-pcd!news1.boi.hp.com!news1!garyy
From: garyy@boi.hp.com (Gary Yandle)
Subject: Re: Garden catalogs
Sender: news@boi.hp.com (Boise Site News Server)
Message-ID: <D2xn70.GBu@boi.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 23:13:47 GMT
Reply-To: garyy@boi.hp.com
References:  <3225.866.uupcb@ptonline.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: hpdmmhm.boi.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard I/T, Boise, Idaho USA
Lines: 72


In article <3225.866.uupcb@ptonline.com>,
simone.rosa-knight@ptonline.com (Simone Rosa-Knight)  writes:
|> I know this will probably start a fire storm of public reaction, but I'm 
|> looking for opinions, based on personal experience, of the following 
|> catalogs which I have ordered.  I want to know which ones are actually 
|> worth ordering from (since I, too, was burned by MBC's good-looking 
|> pictures and low prices)!

I also was burned by Michigan Bulb.  I will never order from them again.  

|> 
|> Here goes:
|> 
|> Smith & Hawkin
|> Mellinger's
|> Wildseed Farms
|> Musser Forests
|> Breck's
|> Spring Hill
 
I have recieved catalogs from both Breck's and Spring Hill but have not ordered
anything from them.  My expirence with Michigan Bulb has left me weary of mail
order companies. 

|> Park Seed
|> Wayside Gardens (I've been seeing good and bad reviews here)
|> Miller Nurseries
|> Vermont Wildflower Farm
|> Stark Bros. Nursery
|> Jackson & Perkins
|> The Forestfarm
|> Johnny's Selected Seeds (saw a good word on this one recently)
|> Le Jardin du Gourmet
|> Terra Ceia Farms
|> Pinetree Garden Seeds
|> Burpee
|> White Flower Farm (seem to see nothing but good about them)
|> Logees Greenhouse
|> Richter's
|> Gardens Alive
|> Thompson & Morgan (saw msg. that said good, but pricy)

Another Catalog I recommend you do not order from is Gurneys.  I ordered
Strawberry plants and asparagus roots from them last year.  Both the Strawberry
plants and asparagus roots came to me covered in green mold and partically 
rotted.  Half of the asparagus did not live ( I ordered 80 roots ).  I
only lost
30% of the Strawberry plants.  I don't really know yet how good the
Strawberries are from the plants I got because they never put on any fruit.
Maybe this year.

|> 
|> I'm kinda new at this and I want to get some sage advice on ordering 
|> before I waste a lot of money on seeds, bulbs, shrubs and perennials 
|> that won't come up or survive in the Atlanta climate.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance for your advice.  Feel free to post to all or respond 
|> to me directly.
|> 

As you can tell, so far I have not had much luck with mail order.  I am
planning
on giving Gardens Alive a try.  Most everyone in this group seems to like their
products and with their current offer, make them hard to resist.

Good Luck


Gary Yandle
Middleton, Idaho  ( Zone 5/6 )
garyy@boi.hp.com


From annecunn@pond.com Sat Jan 28 23:49:07 EST 1995
Article: 52565 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!wanda.pond.com!sword.pond.com!annecunn
From: annecunn@pond.com (Anne S. Cunningham)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Gardening Magazines
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 22:34:03 GMT
Organization: FishNet Online Service
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <annecunn.147.2F28235A@pond.com>
References: <3fgreq$g1c@hammer.msfc.nasa.gov> <3fov8f$86c@baggins.dazixco.ingr <3g3r3h$oc1@epicycle.lm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sword.pond.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

Gardeners from the mid-Atlantic States or
similar conditions might enjoy Green Scene,
published by The PA Horticultural Society
(Phila Flower Show people) .
    No ads, six per year, $ 12.95



From jware@cdpa.state.ms.us Sat Jan 28 23:50:53 EST 1995
Article: 52133 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!usenet
From: "James Ware" <jware@cdpa.state.ms.us>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Book on weeds?
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 17:48:54 CST
Organization: Mississippi State University
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <75059.jware@cdpa.state.ms.us>
Reply-To: <jware@cdpa.state.ms.us>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial03.cdpa.state.ms.us
X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_16
X-POPMail-Charset: English
To: jstone9352@aol.com

On 24 Jan 1995 15:50:29 -0500, 
JSTONE9352  <jstone9352@aol.com> wrote:

>Does anyone know of a good book on weeds.?

The weed is in the eye of the beholder. Some people spend their spring days 
trying to kill off Spiderwort while to others it is a treasured perennial. 
Others do the same with Queen Anne's Lace or Morning Glory vines. One lady 
who had just moved into my neighborhood during the winter asked me what 
she could do with all those blessed weeds she had in the back. Turned out 
to be daylilies with cold damage to their foilage. My worst pest is a 
creeper called "Wild Strawberry" that many locals rave about as a ground 
cover. It just makes me rave, period.

All kidding aside, such a book would be of great use. I would love to see 
one with pictures/illustrations of the "weed" at differant stages in its 
life cycle.

============================================================================
                                _______
                               /       |
   James R. Ware              /        |
                             /         |   jware@server.cdpa.ms.gov
   MS Dept. of Archives      |         |   
   Systems Administrator     \         |
   100 S. State St.           |        |   PHONE: (601) 359-6888     
   P.O. Box 571               /        |   FAX:   (601) 359-6905        
   Jackson, MS 39205-0571    /         |
                            |______    |
                                  /    |
                                  \____|
============================================================================


From leppik@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Sat Jan 28 23:52:57 EST 1995
Article: 52221 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!leppik
From: leppik@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (leppik peter)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: www address for the faq?
Date: 25 Jan 1995 23:50:12 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 14
Distribution: na
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NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

yeutter@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (M. Yeutter) writes:

>I lost the www address for the rec.gardens faq - would
>someone please either post it or mail it to me again?
>I'd be very appreciative!

The Plants By Mail FAQ (if that's the one you want) is at:

http://seidel.ncsa.uiuc.edu/PBM-FAQ/
-- 
	                                   Peter Leppik--  p-leppi@uiuc.edu
Lost in the Information Supercollider

http://jean-luc.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/PeterL/HOME.html


From agrawal@gracie Sat Jan 28 23:54:12 EST 1995
Article: 52313 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!cs.utk.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!gracie.msfc.nasa.gov!not-for-mail
From: gracie!agrawal (Nisheeth Agrawal)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Garden Software
Date: 26 Jan 1995 15:52:55 GMT
Organization: NASA, Huntsville, AL
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3g8ggn$g8v@hammer.msfc.nasa.gov>
References: <3fh99d$d0l@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <dclark.96.0008D8B7@wellspring.us.dg.com> <3fp1d1$gd3@prop.wes.army.mil>,<Zu0a6+5.wterrill@delphi.com>
Reply-To: agrawal@gracie
NNTP-Posting-Host: gracie.msfc.nasa.gov

In article <Zu0a6+5.wterrill@delphi.com>, Bill Terrill <wterrill@delphi.com> writes:
> Try "The Gardeners Asst. & Landscape Plant Manager" I got them at Wal-mart
>They are shareware. Wal-mart had them on the shareware counter and they were
>put there from Goodtimes Software. Goodtimes phone number 212-951-3126.
>Hope this helps. BTW, I think I paid less than $10 for the packet but you
>should register if you like it and continue to use it.

Can you give us a brief review of this software. I bought one by Expert
Software called Landscape Design and was kinda disappointed. It was only about
$15 or so. It was strictly a landscape planner. It only had about 4 trees that
you could use in your design. It didn't have a full version that I could get
either. Sort of you get what you pay for. So if Bill can tell us a little about
this package it will help! Thanks


Nisheeth

All opinions are mine and not my employer or anybody else!!


From josh@cais.cais.com Sat Jan 28 23:55:10 EST 1995
Article: 52371 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!sun.cais.com!news.cais.com!cais.cais.com!josh
From: josh@cais.cais.com (Josh Hartmann)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: ANNOUNCE: New features in the Virtual Garden WWW site
Date: 26 Jan 1995 03:19:29 GMT
Organization: Virtual Garden http://www.timeinc.com/vg
Lines: 28
Sender: josh@hand.timeinc.com
Message-ID: <3g74c1$pkj@news.cais.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cais.com

We've added some oft-requested features to the Virtual Garden, Time
Inc.'s World Wide Web site specifically for Internet gardeners:

The Complete Gardener searchable plant encyclopedia now has a new
feature: searching by plant name (cultivar, genus, or common name).

Additionally, the entire gardening content of Sunset, Southern Living,
and Homeground magazines is now searchable using a sophisticated
full-text search engine from PLS (Personal Library Software Inc.)

The Virtual Garden is available at

	http://www.timeinc.com/vg

The searchable plant encyclopedia is at

	http://www.timeinc.com/vg/TimeLife/CG/vg-search.html

Each of the magazines are available off the VG welcome page; a search
form appears at the bottom of each and every article.

Please feel free to post to the newsgroup or send mail to me at
vg-webmaster@www.timeinc.com if you have any questions or comments. (I
follow rec.gardens regularly.)

-Josh Hartmann
Time Life Inc.
josh@hand.timeinc.com


From billg@yrkpa.kias.com Sat Jan 28 23:56:01 EST 1995
Article: 52297 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!yrkpa.kias.com!yrkpa.kias.com!not-for-mail
From: billg@yrkpa.kias.com (bilg)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Agricultural info on the net
Date: 25 Jan 1995 22:36:35 -0500
Organization: Keystone Information Access Systems
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <3g75c3$3o2@yrkpa.kias.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: yrkpa.kias.com



Following is an excerpt from a message I received from the Penpages management
about the Penpages system being available to the public. 
I have an account there but as you will read from the following message, one
is not necessary.
I accessed the system by telnetting to penpages.psu.edu.
 

---------------start--------------------------------------

 
>From  PPMENU@A1.PSUPEN.PSU.EDU Wed Jan 25 22:23:58 1995
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 09:06:00 -0500 (EST)
From: PENpages Management 814-863-3449 <PPMENU@A1.PSUPEN.PSU.EDU>
To: billg@yrkpa.kias.com
Subject: PENpages Reply

 

Thank you for replying to PENpages!

PENpages is an information server developed at the Pennsylvania State
University.  It is free to the general public and can be accessed with a modem
and communicating software.  There is no need for a special account to access
PENpages.  If you are connecting over the Internet, use the node name
PSUPEN.PSU.EDU.  Your User name would be your 2 letter state abbreviation or
WORLD if you are accessing from outside the US.  If you live in Pennsylvania,
you may also dial in through a modem.  Each county has a special telephone
number for public access to PENpages.  We also have a listing of Computer
Support Specialists from every state who have agreed to assist with PENpages
questions, including how to connect to PENpages from your location.  For 
further information, you may call 814-865-1229 or email to 
SUPPORT@PSUPEN.PSU.EDU  A User Guide is also available.


The PENpages database provides full-text information relating to the
agricultural sciences, human nutrition, aging, family, community
development, and consumer issues.  There are over 13,000 research-based
reports, newsletters, bibliographies, and fact sheets available.  The
information is entered daily by researchers and experts in all areas of
Cooperative Extension from around the nation, including the Pennsylvania
Dept. of Agriculture, West Virginia State University, Colorado State
University, Iowa State University, and the University of Georgia, as
well as our own College of Agricultural Sciences.

The information in PENpages is available for your use.  Most of the
articles and screens are free to copy as long as you credit PENpages as
the source, along with the document authors.  The only articles or
screens that are not ok to copy will have copyright information on them.

I hope I've answered your questions concerning our database.  As mentioned
earlier, a User Guide is available if you have further need
of instruction.  Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions
or would like a User Guide sent to you.

Sincerely, 

Ann Devlin
PENpages Mangement
ADEVLIN@PSUPEN.PSU.EDU



---------------------------end--------------------------------------


I have used Penpages mostly for gardening info and have found it to be quite 
useful.


enjoy

bil




From writers@snowcrest.net Sat Jan 28 23:56:36 EST 1995
Article: 52550 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!mtshasta!sl0.mtshasta.snowcrest.net!writers
From: writers@snowcrest.net (Walt Cheney)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Book on Weeds
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:07:26
Organization: Writers Consortium, Weed, CA
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <writers.16.000C201A@snowcrest.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sl0.mtshasta.snowcrest.net
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

Please advise the E-mail address of Cornell Univ. Press. as I wish to obtain a 
copy of Conrad Muenscher's book on "Weeds."  And, those who know of other 
books specifically on weeds I would apprecate learning of same.

I live in Weed, California (no kidding)  and we are planning a Botantical 
Garden that will include many varieties of flowers, natural plants, and 
trees, BUT, it will have the only "weed patch" in the United States 
identifying various weeds and those "weeds" that aspire to be flowers.  I have 
written a poem entitled "Weeds" that I would like to share with you if you 
don't mind as I know this is not the newsgroup for poems.  But although I 
write about weeds, this poem is for all you gardner's that make a shrine for 
these living things -- called weeds.  I have a second poem entitled "A Weed's 
Lament."  Both, "Weeds" and "A Weed's Lament" have been laser engraved on 
redwood plaques to provide as gifts to those gardener's who have the 
understanding to appreciate God's work.

For information please contact me by E-mail at: writers@snowcrest.net
The poem:  "Weeds" by Walter J. Cheney
I think that I shall never see,
A poem as lovely as a weed can be.
A weed whose many roots are pressed,
Against the earth's sweet flowing breast.

A weed that looks to God all day,
And lifts it's spindly arms to pray.
Dear God, "Tell the gardner I'm not a pest
-- that I'm just as pretty as all the rest.

The gardner knows that I need to breed
so I hide my children in some seed.
But the gardner pulls up my wee ones too
-- it makes a mother awfully blue.

Living near a gardner is not much fun
as I can't hide and I can't run.
Tell me, Who has this God-like power,
to say that I'm a weed and not a flower?"

Weeds are made by God's that be,
As much as flowers or a mighty tree.
And poems are made by fools indeed,
But only God can make a weed.

My best to all you gardner's and I hope you might see some of your "weeds" in 
a different light.  Walter.  


From Richard Campbell Sat Jan 28 23:57:18 EST 1995
Article: 52415 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.ti.com!news.itg.ti.com!phantom!richc
From: Richard Campbell
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Garden design book recommendations?
Date: 27 Jan 1995 17:28:19 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments
Lines: 20
Sender: richc@phantom (Richard Campbell 575-4122)
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3gbafj$l58@dsk92.itg.ti.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: phantom.itg.ti.com

   I have been looking for a couple of good books on garden design.
I have all of the plant list type of books I need (although I keep buying
more!).  But I do not have any good books on garden design.
I'm into mostly flower gardens, kind of informal, maybe cottage garden
effects.  Borders, yeah, that's it.  My yard is very small compared to most
and some of the small garden books I've seen show 'small gardens' that
absolutely dwarf mine (I laugh at these 'small gardens').  

   Anyway as far as these types of books go the pickings seem to be
sparse.  Do any of you have any favorites?  Titles, authors & publishers
would be appreciated.  I'm in Texas so keep that in mind when making
suggestions (No 'Gardens of the Yukon' please!).

Thanks,
Rich                You mean dig up the soil,
                    pull all the weeds, plant
                    the seeds, pull some more
                    weeds, water the seeds,
                    and pull some more weeds?
                                   - C.B. 


From john@musicman.com Sat Jan 28 23:57:53 EST 1995
Article: 52549 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!heifetz.msen.com!johng
From: johng@garnet.msen.com (John Green)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Herb, Edible Wild Plant Bks FS
Date: 28 Jan 1995 19:49:19 GMT
Organization: musicman.com
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <3ge73v$40t$16@heifetz.msen.com>
Reply-To: john@musicman.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Books on Herbs, Edible Wild Plants FS

All prices include postage in U.S.

reply email john@musicman.com

Bardswell, Frances A.  The Herb Garden, with illustrations by the Hon. 
Florence Amherst and Isabelle Forrest.  London:  Adam & Charles Black, 
1911.  Hard cover, 173 pages, index, tables, paste-in color 
illustrations.  $20

Buchman, Dian Dincin.  Herbal Medicine:  The Natural Way to Get Well and 
Stay Well.  New York:  Gramercy, 1980.  Hard cover with DJ, 310 pages, 
index, drawings, list of resources.  $12

Fox, Helen M.  My Years in My Herb Garden.  New York:  MacMillan, 1953; 
first printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, index, very good 
condition.  $9

Freeman, Margaret B.  Herbs for the Mediaeval Household, for Cooking,
Healing and Divers Uses.  New York:  The Metropolotian Museum of Art,
1943.  Hard cover, 48 pages, illustrated with drawings.  Excellent
condition.  $9

Gibbons, Euell.  Stalking the Wild Asparagus:  Field Guide Edition.  A 
field guide to edible wild plants.  New York: David McKay, 1972; 
reprint.  Paper, 303 pages, excellent condition.  $6

Kadans, Joseph M.  Modern Encyclopedia of Herbs:  A comprehensive, 
practical, up-to-date reference work covering hundreds of herbs:  common 
names, cooking uses, botanical names, cosmetic uses, growing conditions, 
medical uses.  New York:  Parker Publishing, 1970.  Hard cover with dust 
jacket, 256 pages, cross-referenced index.  Very good condition.  $12

Medsger, Oliver Perry.  Edible Wild Plants.  New York:  McMillan, 1954.  
Hard cover with DJ, 323 pages, photos, drawings, index, index of 
scientific names.  $14

Miloradovich, Milo.  The Home Garden Book of Herbs & Spices:  The 
complete handbook on growing, preparing and preserving all culinary herbs 
and spices--for the gardener, the homemaker, and the gourmet.  Garden 
City, NY:  Doubleday, 1952.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 236 pages, 
index, list of botanical names.  $10

Pond, Barbara.  A Sampler of Wayside Herbs:  Rediscovering Old Uses For
Familiar wild Plants; illustrated by Edward and Marcia Norman.  New York: 
Greenwich House, 1974.  Hard cover with DJ, index, bibliography, color and
B&W drawings and paintings, 126 pages.  Excellent condition.  $14

Ramsbottom, John.  Edible Fungi, with colour plates by Rose Ellenby.  
London:  Penguin, 1948.  Hard cover, 45 pages, 24 color plates.  
Excellent condition.  $7

Ranson, Florence.  British Herbs.  Harmondsworth:  Penguin Books, 1949.  
Paper, 203 pages, illustrated with photos and drawings.  Excellent 
condition.   $6

Rohde, Eleanour Sinclair.  Herb Gardening.  London:  Medici Society, 
1945; 2nd printing.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 206 pages, illustrated 
with drawings, color & B&W photos.  Very good condition.  $9

Taylor, George M.  British Herbs and Vegetables.  London:  Collins, 
1947.  Hard cover with dust jacket, 48 pages, color and B&W photos and 
drawings.  $8




--
   


From boake@utkvx.utk.edu Sun Jan 29 17:17:44 EST 1995
Article: 52661 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-server.ncren.net!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!martha.utk.edu!utkvx.utk.edu!boake
From: boake@utkvx.utk.edu (Chris Boake)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: bat houses
Date: 27 Jan 1995 17:27 EST
Organization: University of Tennessee
Lines: 12
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <27JAN199517275072@utkvx.utk.edu>
References: <3g63rs$pnb@ccshst05.cs.uoguelph.ca> <psmith.791217961@superior>
NNTP-Posting-Host: utkvx1.utk.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    



Sensible bats go for insects that are larger than mosquitoes, and that
thus have more food value per hunting episode.  The migratory north
american bats eat flying insects.  If you get bugs coming to your
porch light, you should look for bats.  (If you live in the tropics,
you might encounter bats that go for nectar, in which case planting
night-flowering aromatic plants will help you to attract them.)
--Chris





From fletcher@prairienet.org Sun Jan 29 17:19:22 EST 1995
Article: 52662 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!prairienet.org!fletcher
From: fletcher@prairienet.org (Karen Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens,rec.gardens.roses,rec.gardens.orchids
Subject: WWW Site: The Garden Gate
Date: 29 Jan 1995 15:06:05 GMT
Organization: Prairienet, the East-Central Illinois Free-Net
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <3ggast$lr9@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Keywords: www garden
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Xref: bigblue.oit.unc.edu rec.gardens:52662 rec.gardens.roses:3222 rec.gardens.orchids:2043

         What do you do when it's too dark or too cold to garden?

                         Stop by The Garden Gate! 

The Garden Gate offers gardeners and nature lovers links to useful and
interesting sites around the world, as well as a growing collection of
original materials.  So if you enjoy plants, either in the garden or in
nature, stop on by, the gate is open! 

The Garden Gate on Prairienet
          http://www.prairienet.org/ag/garden/homepage.htm

Now also at SunSITE:
           http://sunsite.unc.edu/garden-gate/homepage.htm

Take a stroll through more than 75 pages full of good stuff for gardeners!

What's Coming into Bloom? 
     Find out what's new at the Garden Gate. 
Bloomin' Great Site 
     Not 'cool', perhaps, but bloomin' great! The Garden Gate's latest
     picks.
The Garden Spider's Web
     Read the gardening column in the WWW publication The Virtual Mirror. 
     Current topic: 'Internet Resources for Gardeners'.
The Gardener's Reading Room 
     Online books, magazines, and catalogs as well as old paper 
     friends.  So make a cup of tea and pull up a comfy chair. 
The Teaching Garden 
     Garden notes, plant lists, glossaries, and lists of from a variety of
     sources. 
The Sunroom 
     Whether you call them houseplants, indoor plants, tropicals or
     greenhouse plants, you can learn how to stop killing them.  Visit the
     Sunroom for plantlife-saving information. 
Down the Garden Path... 
     ... and around the world for virtual garden tour of botanical gardens,
     greenhouses, and private gardens. 
Internet Resources 
     Browse the world for information on horticulture, botany, ecology,
     conservation, and landscape architecture or go surfing for your own
     finds. 
Newsgroups 
     Dip into some of the many USENET newsgroups for discussions on a
     number of interesting topics. 
Illustrated E-reviews 
     The Garden Gate's very own illustrated reviews of gardening 
     and home landscaping software.  Currently featured:  FLOWERscape.

                              The Garden Gate
===========================================================================
Karen Fletcher                                      fletcher@prairienet.org
                                                   fletcher@sunsite.unc.edu
The Garden Gate is a non-commercial site.


From k.carroll@wildfire1.com Sun Jan 29 17:19:35 EST 1995
Article: 52684 of rec.gardens
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!wildfire!k.carroll
From: k.carroll@wildfire1.com
Subject: CATALOG ADDRESSES
Message-ID: <9501290838.0C4QL00@wildfire1.com>
Organization: Inter:Comm - Interconnections for Commerce & Community
X-Mailer: TBBS/PIMP v3.21
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 95 08:38:08 
Lines: 21


Need current address, fax or email for teh following:


Savage farm Nursery

Vernon Barnes And Sons Nursery

Had good luck in teh past with both from McMinnvile TN.

Great variety, great prices catalog was only a list.

Used to get all my info from Flower and Garden butr no longer carried at local
book store.

Is there a full list of email for nursery - seed houses

email to above address.
Thanks!!!

KC


From plantdoc1@aol.com Sun Jan 29 22:22:42 EST 1995
Article: 52717 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!swiss.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: plantdoc1@aol.com (PlantDoc1)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Deer vs Fruit trees.. help
Date: 29 Jan 1995 21:09:37 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 11
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3ghhp1$jjk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <dclark.89.0009E3A6@wellspring.us.dg.com>
Reply-To: plantdoc1@aol.com (PlantDoc1)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Deer controls depend heavily on deer population density. As I live in a
Suburban
town with the heaviest deer population per acre in New York State....I've
tried it all!
The most effective deterent is a Black Mesh covering called Deerblock made
by Easy Gardener Co of Waco, TX. Next a spray repellant when netting isn't
practical...the best is DeerAway made by Integralure. (I've been told it's
used in a lot of reforestation areas, and the other one that works pretty
good is Hinder. All
others will fail in our experiance. Proper application is essential in
applying the repellants as they need to dry before freezing..


From jconybea@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Sun Jan 29 22:24:28 EST 1995
Article: 52733 of rec.gardens
Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!ncar!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!news.uiowa.edu!blue.weeg.uiowa.edu!blue.weeg.uiowa.edu!jconybea
From: "J. Conybeare" <jconybea@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: 2 Catalog Recommendations
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 20:40:20 -0600
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Lines: 56
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.950129201003.148885E-100000@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
References: <3g0snn$1pk@larry.rice.edu> <3757.866.uupcb@ptonline.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <3757.866.uupcb@ptonline.com> 

On 27 Jan 1995, Simone Rosa-Knight wrote:

> On a slightly diff. subject, the above mentioned mag. [Garden Gate] also 
offers the 
> following catalogs, which I would like this groups enlightened opinion 
> of before I request them.
> 
> Dutch Bulb Catalog from Peter deJager Bulb Co.
> Dutch Gardens catalog
> John Scheepers Flower Bulbs from John Scheepers, Inc.
> Jung's Seed & Nursery Catalog
> Van Engelen Flower Bulbs from Van Engelen, Inc.
> Milaeger's Gardens
> 
> Pls. respond to me directly or post here so that everyone may benefit 
> from your experiences, good or bad.
> 
Simone and others:

I can vouch for 2 of the above.  Dutch Gardens produces a wonderful
catalog full of big glossy photos in spring and fall.  They specialize in
bulbs, but also offer some perennials, which I haven't tried. I have
ordered from them several times over the last two years and their bulbs
always arrive looking fresh, healthy and generous in size.  They describe
the size categories of various offers clearly, which explains why 
prices vary and helps in making choices.  Most of my daffodils and lilies 
are from Dutch Gardens and I look forward each spring to greeting the new 
plantings and watching the older ones get bigger, better and prettier 
year by year.

Dutch Gardens
P.O. Box 200
Adelphia, NJ 07720
Phone:  908-780-2713
Fax:  908-780-7720 

Milaeger's in Wisconsin is another fine outfit.  Their plants are 
usually mailed in pots and always arrive in hearty condition, with 
healthy foliage and good roots.  They are also happy to stay in 
their pots for a while if I can't plant them immediately.  The company 
has been completely accommodating in honoring their liberal guarantee 
and I feel totally confident in ordering from them.  You'll find their 
catalog informative and inspirational.  Although they are not 
as glitzy as White Flower Farm, for example, their selections are every 
bit as interesting.  Milaeger's is definitely one of my mainstays.

Milaeger's Gardens
4838 Douglas Ave.
Racine, WI 53402-2498
1-800-669-9956 (To order)
1-414-639-2371 (Other business)
FAX 1-414-639-1855

Happy Ordering!    

Nancy C. in Southeast Iowa (zone 5)


