From cdcramer@clarityconnect.com Sat Jul 31 19:50:44 1999
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:59:35 -0400
From: Craig Cramer <cdcramer@clarityconnect.com>
To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu
Cc: kir139@yahoo.com, mgs23@pacbell.net
Subject: Friday URLs: sustag and ag list servers

Misha wrote:

>
> Memory tells me there is a fabulous collection of links and lists by 
> someone in Cortland, NY, with categories of sustainable and 
> alternative ag--Craig, are you there? Do you know what/who I mean? 


I'm guessing that it's the Digital Librarian maintained by Margaret Vail
Anderson, a librarian here in Cortland, N.Y.   She has a ton of links there,
and a ton of ag links.  It's worth checking out:

http://www.servtech.com/~mvail/

>
> And lastly but not leastly:
> Sustainable Farming Connection Coffee Shop 
> http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/forums.html
> You didn't know Craig was into Java, eh??? :^)


Actually, other than a little cut & paste and trial and error, I'm not. 
Glancing at that page, I can't vouch that it's very up to date.  But there are
some links there to other lists of ag discussion groups.  There are also some
discussion groups there that I found useful maybe two years ago.  Some I still
read.  Others I don't.

Here are some others that I don't think have been mentioned yet. (Sorry I
didn't save all the subscribe info.  I'll at least try to supply some contact
info):

*SAED-SHARE-L@cornell.edu  -- Not much in the way of nuts and bolts farming
stuff.  But this is a great list for folks interested in approaches to
sustainable ag education.  Contact Nancy Grudens-Schuck at ng13@cornell.edu. 
(Give her some time.  She's moving from Cornell to Iowa State about now.)

*graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz -- This one has been mentioned, hasn't it?  It was
Misha's baby.  It was pioneering.  And it worked.

*graze-r -- This is one you may not be aware of.  It's another grazing
discussion group that broke off from graze-l.  Go to
http://www.onelist.com/ and
search for "grazing."  It's pretty much all farmers and though the discussion
strays from the subject a little there is some excellent information flowing
here, upwards of 15 to 25 messages a day the past few weeks.  I guess grazier
do have more time on their hands than other dairy farmers.

Which brings me to a wonderful point.  I had bad experiences a couple years ago
trying to use some of these free online discussion group services.  They
weren't very stable.  But they've got the bugs out of them now, so just about
anyone can start their own discussion group on any topic that they please.  

*There is also a pastured poultry discussion group at onelist.com.  Make sure
you join PasturePoultry  and not ppoultry.  (The former is active, the latter
is pretty much dead.)

*There are three USDA lists that are at least of parallel interest:  

veg-prod@reeusda.gov
smallfarm@reeusda.gov
direct-mkt@maat.reeusda.gov

It would be great to have a "more sustainable" presence on these, not that
there isn't any now.

There are a few others that are more focused just on food issues in the
Northeast that I can probably track down info on.  I'd bet there are similar
ones in other regions.

Then if you want to get into issue oriented lists, I know there's one on
biotechnology that comes out of Cornell, and I'm sure that there are others on
just about any ag topic you care to name.  

The interactive features of the Internet have really blossomed in the last
year.  Don't let all this information flying around keep you from your chores. 
But if it's interaction you want on a topic near and dear to you, you can
either find a discussion about it or create your own.

Kirsten:  I'm sure all of us would love to see what you pull together on this. 
Will you post a page at the AFSIC website?  If that's a hassle just send me the
information and I'll add it to the Coffeeshop page at Sustainable Farming
Connection.

Craig

Craig Cramer
mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com

1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming
http://1000ways.baka.com

Sustainable Farming Connection
http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection


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From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Jul 31 19:53:53 1999
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:12:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <london@metalab.unc.edu>
To: Kirsten Saylor <kir139@yahoo.com>
Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Recommended Listservs


Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm
london@metalab.unc.edu   lflondon@worldnet.att.net
http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech
EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture
-
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, Kirsten Saylor wrote:
> What I need is a name of the listserv and the host. 
-

permaculture mailing lists:

1)permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu (this one will soon be
bi-directionally gated to the alt.permaculture list)
2)permaculture@envirolink.org
subscription info is here:
http://metalab.unc.edu/london/permaculture/misc/PC-listservs

3)permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
and many other lists, i.e. organic gardening, seed saving, soil quality,
small farming, market gardening, and others - these lists are also
fully accessable as newsgroups and as webforums - read and post using all
three methods - all posts are archives and are publically readable)
subscription info is here:
http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt

4)perma-l@linda.swin.de (Germany, hosted by Thilo Pfennig, mostly German
language)

5)perma@eepo.com.au (Australia, hosted by Permaculture Association of
Western Australia, PAWA, http://www.eepo.com.au/perma)
send email to: listserver@eepo.com.au with message text:
SUBSCRIBE PERMA <your NAME>

homestead mailing list:
subscription info is here:
http://metalab.unc.edu/london/permaculture/misc/homestead.mailing-list

csa-l mailing list:
subscription info is here:
http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/csa/CSA-L.mailing-list.INFO

organic-l mailing list (a UK list):
subscription info is here:
http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/net-resources/organic-l.mailing-list

bdnow@envirolink.org (Biodynamics)
Send subscription requests to: bdnow@igg.com


Newsgroups:

alt.permaculture (new and very nice, no spam, no flames)
own.eco.permaculture (may have to get this at DejaNews)
alt.sustainable.agriculture
rec.gardens.edible
alt.solar.thermal (an exceptionally fine newsgroup for home-built
  energy systems and energy-efficient architecture - see also
  alt.architecture.alternative)





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From mgs23@pacbell.net Sat Jul 31 22:55:38 1999
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:12:33 -0700
From: Misha <mgs23@pacbell.net>
To: SANET-mg <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Friday URLs: sustag and ag list servers

Howdy, all--

Kirsten Saylor wrote:

>I get requests for listserv (or email-lists)
>information quite often, and would like your help in
>collating those that fit within the lamplight of
>sustainable agriculture into a factsheet.  Searching
>the net is taking too long with too few hits.
>
>What I need is a name of the listserv and the host.
>Without those I'm sunk.  If you have subscription
>information that'd be great.  (you could just forward
>an email to me from the listserv you want to
>recommend)

I don't yet have my Windows Netscape bookmarks file installed on my 
Mac here at Misha-By-The-Sea, but I turned up the following on Alta 
Vista:

Agriculture discussion groups and mailing lists
http://www.oneglobe.com/agriculture/newslist.html


Ag mailing lists
http://georgia.ncl.ac.uk/IFS/AgLists.html

Truncate this URL to the host to find the author.


Mailing lists related to sustainable agriculture
http://www.vtt.co.jp/staff/ancha/maillists.html

Toggle off your cookies, or be prepared to click Cancel a lot (if you 
don't accept them, which I don't).


Agriculture discussion groups and mailing lists
http://www.farm.ie/links/discuss.html


Ontario Ministry of Ag Web links
http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/external_links/ruralink.htm

References to list servers are under the commodity areas.



This was a very quick search--ten minutes--so I'm sure there's more 
out there. I searched on the term "agriculture e-mail lists." I 
didn't try "agricultural" or "agricult?" or related wild cards.

"Agriculture e-mail" turned up 269 hits. I also didn't look for 
"alternative ag" or "regenerative ag" or commodity types by name or 
farm type (like "goat" or "small farm e-mail" or "small farm mailing 
list").

Memory tells me there is a fabulous collection of links and lists by 
someone in Cortland, NY, with categories of sustainable and 
alternative ag--Craig, are you there? Do you know what/who I mean? 
Someone at SUNY, if I am remembering correctly. Dang, not having 
one's bookmarks handy is like a dream of conducting the SF Symphony 
nekked.  ;^)

There are these resources for anyone searching for e-mail lists:

List of lists
http://www.ulv.edu/~acs/general/list.html

Links include the list search engines Liszt and CataList. They have 
more or less effectiveness depending on your search terms...but 
that's true for any bot.

See also

Publicly accessible mailing lists
http://www.neosoft.com/internet/paml/

A simple query on "agriculture" turned up about 20 hits. The limit of 
this engine is that people apparently have to submit their sites.


Of course, from the ranks of our own SANETtitude:

Intergarden
http://metalab.unc.edu/london/Gateway_to_Archives.html

Larry's done a lot of the work for all of us in selecting 
mailing/discussion lists and linking to subscription info.


And lastly but not leastly:

Sustainable Farming Connection Coffee Shop
http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/forums.html

You didn't know Craig was into Java, eh???  :^)


Search tips for richer finds:

--Use AltaVista and follow their search protocols. Still the best 
search engine I've used. In the sense that it turns up more 
university, nonprofit, and governmental hits, in my experience, than 
other engines.

--Use singular instead of plural search terms. Searching on "mailing 
lists" will lead the engine to overlook hits on "mailing list." 
Software is very literal.

--Don't use commercial terms or Internet terms (like "listserv" or "listproc").

--Try searching on "e-mail" with and without the hyphen. Without the 
hyphen is gloppy English, or actually it's French: "email" is a 
French word for a particular enamelling technique. You wouldn't say 
Hbomb or Dday or Xcoordinate. But people will and do say "email," so 
might as well search on it.

--As for the neologism "edress" or "eddress," don't get me started.


I can think of some other places to look, but this is the 20-minute 
hit. My first Friday Afternoon SANET URL Hunt in California! Only now 
instead of doing whatever I used to do on Madison on a Friday...I get 
to walk on the beach, watch the sun set, and wonder why people would 
even think of surfing in 56-degree water.  %^>  With sharks in it.


peace
misha

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michele Gale-Sinex
Communications manager
Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison
http://www.wisc.edu
UW voice mail:		608-262-8018
Home office:		415-504-6474 (504-MISH)
Home office fax:		Same as above, phone first for enabling
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This "telephone" has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered
as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to 
us. --Western Union internal memo, 1876. 

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