Subject: ethics of code usage

From: [email-masked] (Chad Wilson)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 08:54:42 -0800

The following is my personal opinion.

I believe that once an algorithm is created, and accomplishes it's funtion
correctly, that the code should be considered public domain, within limits.

I don't like outright copying and claiming of credit, that is cheating. 
wholesale usage of an entire product can also be bad, copyright-wise.

I personally don't believe copyright's should apply to code.  If you write
it, and make it readable, that is my license to use it.  If progger A
comes up with a neat way to solving a problem, then progger B should
consider using it if it is superior.  progger A should make that code
available for hacking on, not hide it.  I admit to using code from
lambdamoo, I do it all the time.  I do give credit where it comes from,
even if i hack on it, and i encourage someone to use my code as they seem
fit.  I like to see the expansion of progging skills, not the inhibition
of them by fascist IBM-like people (IBM is very proprietary, that is my
point).

Long live @dump.  @port coming soon.

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From: Judy Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 09:58:41 -0800

It's more complicated than just an algorithm when it's MOO code.  This
doesn't apply as much to generics, but a lot of MOO code is Virtual
Reality, and should be treated more like a story---that is, copying
without giving credit or asking permission is socially irresponsible.
Me, I think you should always ask, even if the code is readable.

Do you think you should be able to xerox a book, just because it's
sitting there in the bookstore, *readable*?

Judy Anderson yclept yduJ   [email-masked]  'yduJ' rhymes with 'fudge'
    [ LambdaMOO is lambda.parc.xerox.com 8888 / 13.2.116.36 8888 ]
       Join the League for Programming Freedom, [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Sting)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 11:06:18 -0800

>The following is my personal opinion.

The following responses are mine...nothing personal intended :)

>of them by fascist IBM-like people (IBM is very proprietary, that is my

Unfortunately, what happens in a real-world situation when someone who programs
for a livelihood creates a new algorithm, or writes a program, and then
everyone just copies the idea and makes their own?  The point of copyright
statutes is to allow the creator of an idea a reasonable length of time in
which to profit from his or her creation.  Without that, there is even _less_
incentive to write new and original code!

Now, granted, where purely entertainment code is concerned, it could be allowed
that there's little practical purpose in enforcing copyright law.  However, if
someone decides they want to do so, it is within their rights.

Obviously, MOO code might bring up some tricky questions, since it's Pavel's
server and design...questions I'm not sure I know the answers to.

*shrug*
Just my $0.005 (if y' haen't got a penny...;)

-M
(aka Caedmon of Anglo-Saxony)

--
Michael J. Fromberger
Consultant, Postmaster, HD Clinic tech
[email-masked] / [email-masked]

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From: Judy Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 11:42:07 -0800

The point of copyright
   statutes is to allow the creator of an idea a reasonable length of time in
   which to profit from his or her creation.  Without that, there is even
   _less_ incentive to write new and original code!

   Now, granted, where purely entertainment code is concerned, it could be
   allowed that there's little practical purpose in enforcing copyright law.

The practical purpose is *fame*.  Not all profit is in $$$.  Some of it
is in happiness and some in fame :-)  So when you steal someone's code,
at least put their name prominently displayed.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:26:00 -0800

Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 12:58 EST
    From: Judy Anderson <[email-masked]>

    ... but a lot of MOO code is Virtual Reality, and should be 
    treated more like a story ...

What if it's a story about code pirating?  I think each story should be
permitted to establish its own ground rules, just as science fiction books
sometimes establish their own laws of physics.  I am not adverse to the
notion that there is some reasonable default in the absence of such rules,
and that that notion should be inherited from reality.  Just as when we
read a story someone writes, we assume the defaults come from the RL world
that the story's author live[s/d] in.

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From: Nicholas LaFlamme <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 05:22:47 -0800

>    _less_ incentive to write new and original code!

     Actually, I would write new code even if I was beaten for doing so. 
SOme of us just feel compelled. :)

>    allowed that there's little practical purpose in enforcing copyright law.

     The Server itself is PD(as far as I know).  It seems tacky to try to
enforce copyright laws on something written on someon elses PD system.

> at least put their name prominently displayed.

  Fame would be nice.  However I would much prefer to see useful code
distributed to those who can use it.

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From: Nicholas LaFlamme <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 05:19:46 -0800

MOO, however, is nothing like the real world.

			Nick