Subject: RPGs and "My MUD is better than your MUD"

From: David Bofinger <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1993 19:00:11 -0700

> Has anyone written a basic combat system, or a RPG system? If so, and
> it's not too much code, could you post or email the code? I'm pulling
> out my hair trying to figure this out!!!

The one on LambdaMOO is a bit of a monster, partly because Tim and I never
anticipated how large it would grow. A lot of it was never optimised for
efficiency, and it was a kludge in the first place, because it was intended
to overlay on the RPG-less MUD structure ghond set up for AlphaMOO. For
instance, if a MUD were written from scratch to be an RPG environment, it
would be natural to make the generic player a descendant of the generic
monster. That option wasn't available to us. Also, there are several things
I would do differently if I wrote such a system today, e.g. skills should
be objects.

Basically, while LambdaRPG is in the public domain as far as I'm concerned,
if you don't understand it you're going to find it hard to use. And if you
can understand it you'll find it just as easy to write your own, especially
if you intend to make RPG integral to your MUD. Being able to assume all the
rooms support RPG activity, for instance, makes things easier and faster.

So take it off LambdaMOO if you want, but don't if you're smart. :-)

> Anything that can be done in MOOs can also be done in LPs, and
> probably vice versa, but remember I'm biased.

One thing that's very different about the social environment of a typical
LPMUD and a typical MOO is the method of acheiving programming rights. On
an LPMUD this is usually very restricted, on a MOO it is usually encouraged.
My understanding is that this is partly (largely?) a consequence of the
LPMUD permissions system, or its absence. LPMUDs have little choice but to
trust their wizards whereas MOO can hand out a programmer bit knowing that
the user can't do anything too seriously horrible.

>>[MOO] does not have multiple inheritance, which would be a convenience,
>> but is not a requirement.

As long as you know how you want it to work. For what its worth I'll
exercise my pseudo-democratic right of acclaimation in support of Greg's
proposal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bofinger	AARNet:	[email-masked]
                Snail:	Dept. of Theoretical Physics, RSPhysSE, ANU, ACT, 2601
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers,

		   Dave Van Buren

---

From: Robert Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 18:33:47 -0700

> the user can't do anything too seriously horrible.

Dave is right, LPs typically have a very different social environment than
MOOs. I'm not sure why. As I mentioned before, I think one of the reasons is
because LPs have traditionally attracted the RPG'ers.

However, there's no reason why an LP couldn't encourage building the same way
MOOs do. Older versions of LP didn't have a good permissions system, but you
will find any recent version carries good mechanisms for enforcing security at
any level you desire. (Remember, all security is implemented in the mudlib,
not the driver itself.) Many LPs typically have a multitude of layers of
permissions, often more than is really needed.

I think part of the trick for attracting the "right" social environment is to
give users the ability to program from the start, instead of rewarding them
with it after completing several game quests, as LPs tend to do. There's no
reason an LP couldn't do this, though, and I think it's worth trying.

Several people have asked me for locations of LPmuds to try and locations for
LP source code. My recommendation for anyone who wants to see a running LP is
to visit TMI-2 (The Mud Institute) at tmi.ccs.neu.edu 5555. They work almost
exclusively on building a base mudlib for any LPmud, and will usually give
programming abilities to anyone who asks. It has good on-line documentation
for using commands and for programming in LPC. They have also built an
interesting "Conference Centre" which they have used to hold moderated
conferences on varying subjects affecting the MUD (or LPmud) community.

There are presently a handful of developers extending the original LPmud
source in their own ways. One which I consider to be one of the best is called
MudOS, and can be found along with a few of the others at ftp.ccs.neu.edu in
/pub/mud/drivers. Also at that site, you will find The Totally Unofficial List
of Internet Muds, compiled monthly by Scott Goehring, as
/pub/mud/docs/current-mudlist. This list includes just about every MUD that
wants to be publicly known, and is a good source if you want to try out the
flavour a few different muds.

Cheers,
- Rob
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  - No gnu have never after fret far, even Eva hung on -   [email-masked]