Subject: test msg

From: PJHurst <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 May 93 18:05 GMT

Is this mail group still with us??? 

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 May 93 21:15:50 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: PJHurst <[email-masked]>
Cc: pdp8-lovers <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: test msg

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 May 93 21:15:50 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: PJHurst <[email-masked]>
Cc: pdp8-lovers <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: test msg
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 18:05 GMT

>Is this mail group still with us??? 

Yep. Not much happening though.

I still use my pdp8/a every day, but not much hacking right bow,
busy with a pdp-11/70 instead.

Is there anybody with a FPP8A to spare, which I could buy/trade/recieve?

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 May 93 2:59:32 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked] (Robert Smith)
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 May 93 2:59:32 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked] (Robert Smith)
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 20:16:06 EDT

>I have seen it, remember when it was being designed I think -
>Kirk jump in anytime - I don't want to blame Larry for
>designing it, I don't remember if it was Moose Regan or
>larry...
>worked real well with the KL8M - I did that..
>bob

Ummm, I think you're mixing things up. The KL8-JA is a one-line
interface, which was a replacement for the KL8-E.
The KL8-A was a four-line unit. Kindof the DZ-11, but for the
pdp8. It consisted of one Hex omnibus board, and a distribution
panel for 8 terminal lines (2 KL8A). It was not possible
to connect it with a KL8M.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 May 93 3:59:58 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked] (Robert Smith)
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 May 93 3:59:58 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked] (Robert Smith)
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: reply - kl8-ja
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 5 May 93 21:30:48 EDT

>Johnny
>yep you are rite!!!
>I stand or sit corrected...just remembered a project in the
>lab in the mill that had multi uarts on an omnibus board.
>bob

Thanks. :-)

Anyway, I have an old catalogue, where they show pictures of this
beast, and it is also mentioned in one version of the pdp8/a
handbook. It appears it used the possibility to vector interrupts
as well. (Well, sort of).
If you got an interrupt, and it was the KL8A, you just executed
an instruction, and it would immediately jump to the address
you had loaded into the device, and the low address lines was
used for vectoring between different types of interrupts.
The instruction was a no-op if the KL8A didn't want an interrupt
handled.
It looks like a very nice piece of equipment, and I would like
to lay my hands on one.

Another piece I'd like to get is a KT8A. Anybody got one of those?

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem

Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem

I've just pieced together a PDP8/F with a TD8E/TU56 running OS/8.  For
a console I'm using an M8655 with a VT100.  I've got a problem with
running TDCOPY and TDFRMT.  According to the listing of the TD8E formatter
the code expects the characters from the console to have the parity bit
set.  The problem is, if I enter a "1" on the VT100 keyboard the PDP8 gets an
octal 61, but the code is expecting to get octal 261.  Do other DEC
programs have this problem?  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Russ				[email-masked]
University Computing Services		PHONE: (812) 855-2733
Indiana University, Bloomington, IN     I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems.

Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:48:17 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems?

Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 22:48:17 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems?

Does a version of the DEC Tape Library System exist for TD8E systems?  I'd
love to be able to load diagnostics from DEC Tape on a 4K PDP8/F system
instead of from a paper tape reader or without having to have 12K of core
in the system to run OS/8.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Russ				[email-masked]
University Computing Services		PHONE: (812) 855-2733
Indiana University, Bloomington, IN     I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems.

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST
From: [email-masked] (Gavin Thomas Nicol)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Build your own?

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST
From: [email-masked] (Gavin Thomas Nicol)
Return-Path: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Build your own?

Has anyone ever built their own PDP8? Could anyone give me a rough
idea of transistor count etc?

I would love to get hold of one, but unfortunately, they seem to be
very few and far between in Japan, and shipping from the USA would
probably not be feasible.

(Actually, I'd like to build a computer (I was tossing around a
electro-mechanical idea... still am), and a PDP8 seems like a neat
"long term" project. Of course, if someone has one in Japan, I'd love
to have it!)

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 12:40:05 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 12:40:05 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 10 May 1993 22:34:59 -0500

>I've just pieced together a PDP8/F with a TD8E/TU56 running OS/8.  For
>a console I'm using an M8655 with a VT100.  I've got a problem with
>running TDCOPY and TDFRMT.  According to the listing of the TD8E formatter
>the code expects the characters from the console to have the parity bit
>set.  The problem is, if I enter a "1" on the VT100 keyboard the PDP8 gets an
>octal 61, but the code is expecting to get octal 261.  Do other DEC
>programs have this problem?  

Sigh. That is an obnoxious problem. Most programs on OS/8 expects the
parity bit to be set. Some mask it away, thank god.
There are three solutions to this.
1. Patch the program
2. Patch the M8655
3. Fix the terminal (is it only the VT102 which can force mark parity?)

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Posted-Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Build your own?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Return-Path: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Posted-Date: Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
In-Reply-To: Gavin Thomas Nicol's message of Tue, 11 May 93 13:26:30 JST <[email-masked]>
Subject: Build your own?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

About ten years ago, I wrote a silicon compiler, a program which took a
behavioral description of a digital system as input (in a language similar to
ISPS) and produced as output, the layout for an nMOS integrated circuit.
One of the sample designs we would run through the compiler was a PDP8.
It was fairly bare-bones, no console, no EAE, no extended memory, no
peripherals. I don't remember exactly, but the design generated used a few
thousand transistors. Our compiler wasn't particularly efficient so I bet a
smaller design could be generated. I might be able to dig up our input
description of the PDP8 if you want, though due to bit rot, our compiler no
longer runs so I couldn't generate the layout for you. I remember hearing of
someone who built a homebrew PDP8 from about 100 TTL/MSI components. You could
probably build one using fewer components with PALs.
	Jeff

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:26 GMT
From: PJHurst <[email-masked]>
To: pdp8-lovers <[email-masked]>
Subject: VT100

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:26 GMT
From: PJHurst <[email-masked]>
To: pdp8-lovers <[email-masked]>
Subject: VT100

Jeff,

Set the VT100 to mark parity, I have one on my 8/M and have no problem with
it... 

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT
From: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT
From: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 09:18:05 EDT

I have schematics for the PDP-8/A lying around here somewhere.  I'd say an
MSI part count in the 100's is about right.  And yes, PALs would clean it
up considerably--there are five or six different state-machines
implemented with TTL.

Seth L. Blumberg          \    "The whole thing was an accident.  No saboteur
[email-masked] (play)   \ could have been so wildly optimistic as to think
[email-masked] (work) \    he could destroy an airplane this way."
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT

>I have schematics for the PDP-8/A lying around here somewhere.  I'd say an
>MSI part count in the 100's is about right.  And yes, PALs would clean it
>up considerably--there are five or six different state-machines
>implemented with TTL.

But the 8/A is microcoded.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:49:39 EDT
From: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:49:39 EDT
From: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 17:28:05 MET DST

Yes, it is...in a sense....

A *lot* of the discrete logic in earlier CPUs' instruction decoders was
replaced by ROMs in the 8/A.  A lot of MSI shifters were still used for
state machines, though, especially in the timing generator.  I was
estimating how much logic it would take to do it all without ROMs.

If anyone wants the 8/A print set, they can send me money and I'll happily
copy it for them.

Seth L. Blumberg          \    "The whole thing was an accident.  No saboteur
[email-masked] (play)   \ could have been so wildly optimistic as to think
[email-masked] (work) \    he could destroy an airplane this way."
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400
From: Leonard N. Foner <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?
Cc: [email-masked]

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400
From: Leonard N. Foner <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?
Cc: [email-masked]

Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip?

To: [email-masked]
Subject: PDP-8/L CPU for sale
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:30:23 CDT
From: "mike begley" <[email-masked]>

To: [email-masked]
Subject: PDP-8/L CPU for sale
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 14:30:23 CDT
From: "mike begley" <[email-masked]>

I got a pdp-8/L cpu here that my wife would like to see gone.
It seems to work, and is in good condition (except a couple
of the front panel switches don't stay on.

U pick up or pay for shipping.
--
Michael Begley             Ask me how           "the man and the woman were
[email-masked]      Iowa State University        both naked, and they were
(515) 233-6210    is censoring my usenet access      not ashamed..." Gen:2.25

To: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked],
        [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own? 
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:34:32 -0700
From: [email-masked]

To: Seth 'the Lesser' <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked],
        [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 May 93 11:14:14 EDT."
             <[email-masked]> 
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 11:34:32 -0700
From: [email-masked]

Hi Seth,

You just admitted that you have 8/a drawings. I have 8/a's and no drawings.
Any chance you could dig them up and make me a copy? I am happy to pay copying
costs and/or trade copies of stuff I have you might want.

Paul Pierce

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT
From: Phil Budne <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem
Cc: [email-masked]

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT
From: Phil Budne <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem
Cc: [email-masked]

And I was wondering why I had trouble dialing into a Sun and running
gdb on my VT52!! Did all old DEC terminals (back when you just plugged
things in and they worked with no setup) send mark parity?

-p

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Leonard N. Foner <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Leonard N. Foner <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 14:50:03 -0400

>Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip?
>

Yes. Both the 6100 and the 6120. The 6120 had some more stuff than
the 6100.
(I think Intersil made the as well...)

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 08:28:49 JST
From: [email-masked] (Gavin Thomas Nicol)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 08:28:49 JST
From: [email-masked] (Gavin Thomas Nicol)
Return-Path: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

Hmm, I seem to have generated a few responses.

It seems that shipping may not be as much of a problem as I thought 
I'll have to look into it a bit more before I start building my own.
If I built my own, I'd like to do it all without using chips, which
may sound masochistic, but... anyway, does anyone have schematics for
any of the older PDP8's?

Alternatively:

Stanley Chow writes:
>I happen to have several boxes of PDP8 pieces that I bought at a swap
>meet. I only want several things out of that pile for my running PDP8
>so I would be happy to sell some. As for shipping, I am about to transfer
>to our China location, so it should be better than shipping from North
>America (I have no idea of shipping costs from China to Japan).

Would there be enough to get a running machine? I might be interested
in this offer.

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:33:35 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Phil Budne <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem

From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:33:35 MET DST
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Phil Budne <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: VT100/M8655 Console Device Problem
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 11 May 93 18:11:50 EDT

>And I was wondering why I had trouble dialing into a Sun and running
>gdb on my VT52!! Did all old DEC terminals (back when you just plugged
>things in and they worked with no setup) send mark parity?

:-)

It appears that DEC always used mark parity on old stuff, yes.
Don't remember why, but I have seen some explanation for this.

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: [email-masked]       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 21:14:56 CDT
From: Douglas W. Jones <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: build your own PDP-8

Date: Tue, 11 May 93 21:14:56 CDT
From: Douglas W. Jones <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: build your own PDP-8

If you're serious about building a PDP-8 from discrete transistors, I do
have the maintenance manuals for the original PDP-8, along with the 1965
flip-chip handbook.  This doesn't provide complete schematics at the
discrete component level, but it provides sufficient information that you
could infer the component level structure and infer the backplane wiring.
Of course, some parts would be hard to find, particularly the 4k by 12 bit
core stack.  Quite frankly, I'd recommend either getting a real vintage
PDP-8 or building one from IC's or a silicon compiler.

And, of course, if Stanley Chou has parts and is willing to haul them
across the Pacific, take advantage of them.  But!  What parts does he
have?
					Doug Jones
					[email-masked]

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:27:18 JST
From: [email-masked] (Gavin Thomas Nicol)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: build you own PDP-8

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 12:27:18 JST
From: [email-masked] (Gavin Thomas Nicol)
Return-Path: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: build you own PDP-8

>If you're serious about building a PDP-8 from discrete transistors, I do
>have the maintenance manuals for the original PDP-8, along with the 1965
>flip-chip handbook.  This doesn't provide complete schematics at the
>discrete component level, but it provides sufficient information that you
>could infer the component level structure and infer the backplane wiring.
>Of course, some parts would be hard to find, particularly the 4k by 12 bit
>core stack. Quite frankly, I'd recommend either getting a real vintage
>PDP-8 or building one from IC's or a silicon compiler.
>And, of course, if Stanley Chou has parts and is willing to haul them
>across the Pacific, take advantage of them.  But!  What parts does he
>have?

Yes, I think I'll try to get a real vintage PDP-8. I'll just have to
convince my wife that it's worth shipping+cost... and *that* will be
the hard part.

I really want to build by own computer from discrete parts though...
I suppose working with a PDP-8 will give me a lot of useful
ideas/knowledge about the design of computers, so it may be a good
first step.

To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems?
From: [email-masked] (David Schachter)
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 19:04:39 PDT
Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA

To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: DEC Tape Library System for TD8E systems?
From: [email-masked] (David Schachter)
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 19:04:39 PDT
Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA

I don't know what I'm talking about... but that won't stop me, this being
email.  We ran OS/8 with TD8E/TU56 combos just fine on 4K core pdp8/m
systems.  We also had one system with dual tape drives and 8K of core.
I hope this information is of some help to you.  (I haven't touched my
pdp8/m in a long, long time.)

_____________________________________________________________________________
David Schachter                                 [email-masked]
801 Middlefield Road, #8                               CompuServe: 70714,3017
Palo Alto, CA  94301-2916                 After 10 am, voice: +1 415 328 7425
USA                                                      fax: +1 415 328 7154

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 06:03 EDT
From: Jan Brittenson <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Build your own?
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Organization: Kra%s%ch and burn!

Return-Path: <bson>
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 06:03 EDT
From: Jan Brittenson <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST <[email-masked]>
Subject: Build your own?
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Organization: Kra%s%ch and burn!

 > From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
 > Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST

 >> Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip?

 > Yes. Both the 6100 and the 6120. The 6120 had some more stuff than the
 > 6100.

   I used to have an Intersil Data Book with these parts in it. But
they were discontinued years before I even started thinking about
building a micro-8. Of course, I was mostly interested in using the
(then) available 10 and 20MB MFM 5.25" drives. I remember I was going
to use the same NS controller with built-in DMA and the same data
sep/PLL chip as I was for another project.

   The Intersil part seemed software compatible as did the peripheral
chips.  A small system would have been trivial to set up. Except for a
disk controller, which actually required reading the application notes
in NS' Data Book.

   Harris, eh? Gee, wonder what they were going use pdp-8s for. Guess
these systems wouldn't be needing disk controllers where they were
going!

						-- Jan Brittenson
						   [email-masked]

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 07:43:47 PDT
From: [email-masked] (Vince Pavlicek)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

Date: Wed, 12 May 93 07:43:47 PDT
From: [email-masked] (Vince Pavlicek)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

----- Begin Included Message -----
>From [email-masked] Wed May 12 03:36:11 1993
 > From: Johnny Billquist  <[email-masked]>
 > Date: Wed, 12 May 93 1:31:06 MET DST

 >> Wasn't the Harris 6100 (or somesuch) a complete PDP8 on a chip?

 > Yes. Both the 6100 and the 6120. The 6120 had some more stuff than the
 > 6100.

   I used to have an Intersil Data Book with these parts in it. But
they were discontinued years before I even started thinking about
building a micro-8. .....
   The Intersil part seemed software compatible as did the peripheral
chips.  A small system would have been trivial to set up. Except for a
disk controller, which actually required reading the application notes
in NS' Data Book.

----- End Included Message -----

	Gawd, you mean some of these chips are valuable! I dragged out
the old prototype for a low-power data acquisition system I built.
The original prototype was a 6100 CPU with 6101 PIE,
6102 Mem Extension/DMA/Timer and two RCA 1855
hardware multipliers to get 12x12 products. Worked ok but was
replaced by a 68000 when they came out. (I still have an 'X' version
of a 68k).  This became a PDP8 look-alike with the Intersil ROM (6312-001)
that had a monitor allowing uploading etc.  Don't smile, this was
a big deal in the early 70's.  1k ROM, 4k RAM all on a 8x5 card
that ran on milliamps!  Guess I'll file it away with my Altair/Imsai
stuff.  ;-)

                   0   	          vince pavlicek
                   O       development engineer
		   o    [email-masked] | vpavlice@ucsd
                marine physical lab  --   u.c. la jolla
Just another beer brewing, bike riding, code hacking, real-time hardware guy.

Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:17:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Hassinger <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: DECtape Library System for TD8E system
To: [email-masked]

Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:17:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Hassinger <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: DECtape Library System for TD8E system
To: [email-masked]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"[email-masked]"
X-Vms-Mail-Cc: HASSINGER

Been having trouble trying to send this.  Here goes try 3...

Are you thinking of the old system that predated OS/8, PS/8, and the 4K
Disk/DECtape Operating System?  It was the first software I had to use with
DECtape on my first 4K PDP-8/I circa 1968.  It ran on the TC01 with TU55 and
later it also worked with TC08 and TU56.

I believe it was limited to a one page device driver (at 7600-7777).  Other
than using something like a ROM for part of the driver it would be very hard to
fit a driver into the available space in a 4K machine.  I never heard of it
being done, but who knows...

Bob Hassinger
[email-masked]

Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:23:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Hassinger <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Build your own?
To: [email-masked]

Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 15:23:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob Hassinger <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Build your own?
To: [email-masked]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"[email-masked]"
X-Vms-Mail-Cc: HASSINGER

The 6100, and later the 6120 where originally from Harris as I recall.  Later
it was the IM6100 - different vendor.

The 6100 was the basis of the DECstation 78 - perhaps the slowest machine in
the PDP-8 family, other than the 8-S of course, that DEC sold in any quantity.

The later model (I am not certain it was "6120", but that sounds right) was the
basis of the later DECmates.  Quite an interesting machine at the time.

Getting chips back then was pretty hard - something about DEC having an
exclusive deal.  Getting them now might be quite a trick.  Its been a long time
since I heard of any new ones being used by anyone.

Bob Hassinger
[email-masked]

Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:35:23 +0300 (MET-DST)
From: John Wilson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Harris 6120
To: [email-masked]
Mail-System-Version: <VAX-MM(284)+TOPSLIB(151)@ULLA.FORNAX.COM>

Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:35:23 +0300 (MET-DST)
From: John Wilson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Harris 6120
To: [email-masked]
Mail-System-Version: <VAX-MM(284)+TOPSLIB(151)@ULLA.FORNAX.COM>

By any chance does anyone have data sheets on the 6120 that they'd
be willing to copy for me?  (I cover costs of course)  I have one that
I pulled out of a DECmate motherboard a while ago, and I'd really love
to build a PDP8-on-a-board to plug into my 386 so I can run OS/8 the same
way everyone used to run CP/M on Apples...  Many eons ago I got the 6100
data sheets from Intersil, but I haven't seen them in almost 10 years and
I've heard it's way different anyway.

Re building your own '8, one of the neat things about doing this is that
all of the non-EAE operate instructions can be done combinatorially
(i.e., just because the book says that IAC happens first and the RAL
second doesn't mean they have to happen separately, just make sure the
incrememter is upstream of the rotator).  So you could make them run
really fast.

John Wilson

Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:25:07 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 00:25:07 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Build your own?

If you're thinking about building a PDP8 you may want to take a look at the
book:

	The Art of Digital Design, second edition
	Franklin Prosser and David Winkel
	Prentice-Hall, Copyright 1987
	ISBN 0-13-046780-4

The authors demonstrate their design techniques by designing a PDP8.  Here at
IU Prosser & Winkel have the students in their class build a working PDP8 from
TTL logic.  To prove that the system works it must be able to run FOCAL.  

There is also a lot of useful design information in chapter 12 titled "Meeting
the Real World".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Russ				[email-masked]
University Computing Services		PHONE: (812) 855-2733
Indiana University, Bloomington, IN     I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems.

From: [email-masked] (Bruce M. Walker)
Subject: Re: Build your own?
To: [email-masked] (Bob Hassinger)
Date: 	Thu, 13 May 1993 08:05:00 -0400
Cc: [email-masked]

From: [email-masked] (Bruce M. Walker)
Subject: Re: Build your own?
To: [email-masked] (Bob Hassinger)
Date: 	Thu, 13 May 1993 08:05:00 -0400
Cc: [email-masked]
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]>; from "Bob Hassinger" at May 12, 93 3:23 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Bob Hassinger writes:
> The 6100, and later the 6120 where originally from Harris as I recall.  Later
> it was the IM6100 - different vendor.
 
'Twas the other way round:  Intersil first came out with the IM6100
(circa 1976?) and later Harris was an official second-source.  Later
still, DEC and Harris collaborated on the improved 6120.

> The 6100 was the basis of the DECstation 78 - perhaps the slowest machine in
> the PDP-8 family, other than the 8-S of course, that DEC sold in any quantity.
 
Funny, that's not inherent in the chip.  The IM6100 running at 8MHz
(only possible with 10V Vcc) has faster timing than the 8/e.  Even at
4MHz (5V Vcc), most instructions are about par (some faster) with the
8/e; some long indirect sequences are slower.

> Getting chips back then was pretty hard - something about DEC having an
> exclusive deal.

6120 maybe, certainly not so with the 6100.  I bought several chipsets
myself (6100 CPU, 6101 parallel port controller, 6102 DMA/memory
extension, and ODT in ROM).  They were "off the shelf" items at local
distributers in 1977-78.

> Getting them now might be quite a trick.  Its been a long time
> since I heard of any new ones being used by anyone.

As micros they were always just curiosities (outside of DEC's own
use).  Despite huge support from "pdp8-lovers", there just wasn't ever
the necessary market to sustain them.

-- 
"Eventually, I decided that thinking was not getting me very far and it
 was time to try building."           -- Rob Pike, The Text Editor sam
      [email-masked]   [ ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!bmw ]  Bruce Walker

From: [email-masked] (Robert Smith)
Subject: building your own
To: [email-masked] (pdp-8 lovers)
Date: Sat, 15 May 93 7:45:21 EDT

From: [email-masked] (Robert Smith)
Subject: building your own
To: [email-masked] (pdp-8 lovers)
Date: Sat, 15 May 93 7:45:21 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

To all:
when this thread started, I responded to the gentlemen who asked -
pardon my oldtimers, I can only remember a limited set of instructions -
I mentioned the 6100 and 6120.  I think I left a hint for John
Captain Video Kirk to pipe in.

I hae never seen the 6120 for sale to anyone other than DEC.

I bit of trivia - Don White, John Kirk, George Lord, a few others
and me, were the folks behind the 6120 that harris designed.  Harris
did an excellent job.  They used the technology they developed to
create a series of other processors.

If anyone knows how to get their hands on a 6120 - and some supporting
chips - even as spares from DEC, please advise!!!

And YES you can creat a 10MHZ or better 8 machine from bitslice technology.
Yes you can do it from asics/or fast proms or a state generator or
a 181 type alu - despite the arguments that you don't need all of the
capabilities with a 181 - jog some folks memeories about that arguement
I hope I hope - OR - LIKE THE WORLD Famous Richie Larry - You
could imbed an 8 in other machines like the PDP11/60.....
Bob smith

Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 04:28:08 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: pdp9/pdp15 dectapes on a pdp8/td8e?

Date: Wed, 19 May 1993 04:28:08 -0500
From: Jeff Russ <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: pdp9/pdp15 dectapes on a pdp8/td8e?

Does anyone out there know of a utility program to read/write PDP9/PDP15 dec tapes
on a PDP8/TD8E system?  I'm not even sure if its possible to do something like
that on a TD8E. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Russ				[email-masked]
University Computing Services		PHONE: (812) 855-2733
Indiana University, Bloomington, IN     I want to buy old PDP[4-9] systems.

Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:31:31 CDT
From: Douglas W. Jones <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: cable help

Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:31:31 CDT
From: Douglas W. Jones <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: cable help

I need to build a 7008288 cable.  This is the cable that runs from the
power control relay box at the back of the cabinet to the back of a
PDP-8/F (or just about any other DEC minicomputer), connected to the
relay box and the computer by 3-pin Mate-N-Lock connectors.

I'd like to build as close to DEC's specs as I can, so if anyone knows
what an original DEC cable looks like, could they tell me:

1) How long is it?  I've seen 7008288-2 and 7008288-8F cables mentioned,
  and I suspect that they differ in length -- is the -2 and the -8F suffix
  really the length in feet?

2) What gauge wire did DEC use.  It's just relay current, so it didn't need
  to be big.

3) What colors are the wires, and how are they cabled (wire ties, vinyl
  jacket)?

Any help would be appreciated.
					Doug Jones
					[email-masked]