From taihou@iss.nus.sg  Wed Jan 29 03:05:05 1992
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Date: Wed, 29 Jan 92 16:06:01 SST
From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
Message-Id: <9201290806.AA08025@iss.nus.sg>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: polyblit in 'C' please
Status: OR


I noticed that the code in the fast polyblitter is in a mix
of 'C' and assembly. Can someone please post a version of
it entirely in 'C' so it can be ported?
Thanks in advance.

Tai Hou

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Jan 29 09:39:38 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9201291439.AA23460@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, taihou@iss.nus.sg
Subject: Re:  polyblit in 'C' please
Status: OR

> From taihou@iss.nus.sg Wed Jan 29 03:05:24 1992
> From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: polyblit in 'C' please
> 
> 
> I noticed that the code in the fast polyblitter is in a mix
> of 'C' and assembly. Can someone please post a version of
> it entirely in 'C' so it can be ported?
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Tai Hou
> 
Which sections are you concerned about?  The assembly sections are extremely
machine-specific, except for the line clipper and the control code for the
fastri() stuff.

No C code exists for these sections, but if you still have trouble with them, I can explain what they do in detail.  Of course, you'll have to be VERY
specific about what sections you want: I can't explain all of them (take too
long).  Also, what platform are you aiming for?

- Dave Stampe

From taihou@iss.nus.sg  Wed Jan 29 20:24:31 1992
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From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
Message-Id: <9201300125.AA09448@iss.nus.sg>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee, taihou@iss.nus.sg
Subject: Re:  polyblit in 'C' please
Status: OR

In the poly3 function, two assem routines were called: compute_slope and
tpoly. It would be great if you can send me the pseudocode or 'c' code
for just these two routines.
I am targetting the Mac. I have already found out how to bypass the
built-in quickdraw functions. I have even written a very fast line
drawing routine. What I lack now is a fast polyblit.
BTW, I assume that one can break a n-sided polygon into many 3-sided
polygons to call poly3. Am I right?

Thanks.

Tai Hou

From broehl  Sun Feb  2 11:30:43 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9202021630.AA19594@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: REND386
To: rend386
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 92 11:30:42 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: OR

To the REND386 mailling list:

In case you miss the announcement to the various newsgroups...

You can now retrieve the REND386 software by email if you don't have
FTP access.  See the posting in sci.virtual-worlds (among others!) for details.

There's a new version of the demo software on sunee that fixes a bug in polar
viewing mode (found by Duncan Murdoch -- thanks, Duncan!)

Also, the userint library has a new version of askfor() that accepts
backspaces on input; demo.exe uses this function, so it now supports
backspaces as well.

If you need to be removed from this list, or if you know someone who
wants to be added to it, just send email to:

         rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

All feedback concerning the software should be send to:

         broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
or
         dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


From davel@hitl.washington.edu Sun Feb  2 17:23:29 1992
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Subject: rend386
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 92 14:15:24 PST
From: davel@hitl.washington.edu
Sender: davel@hitl.washington.edu
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.
Status: OR


hello.	
	i picked up a copy of rend386 hoping it would be able to
handle multiple viewports, but it doesnt't seem to be able to.  Is
there a way to get multiple viewports into ONE vga display?  
	i need to render seperate left and right eye pairs of images
to a single (super) vga display.  

thanx.

-dav lion

davel@hitl.washington.edu

human interface tech lab
university of washington
seattle, wa, 98195

From wendellj@microsoft.com  Mon Feb  3 18:46:31 1992
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Powerglove code?
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 16:06:08 PDT
From: wendellj@microsoft.COM
Message-Id:  <9202031542.aa09218@ingate.microsoft.COM>
Status: OR

Is anyone else out there working to try to add the powerglove as an 
input device to rend386?  If not, I will.

wendellj


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Feb  3 19:35:01 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202040035.AA03370@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, wendellj@microsoft.COM
Subject: Re:  Powerglove code?
Status: OR

> From wendellj@microsoft.com Mon Feb  3 18:49:08 1992
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Powerglove code?
> From: wendellj@microsoft.COM
> 
> Is anyone else out there working to try to add the powerglove as an 
> input device to rend386?  If not, I will.
> 
> wendellj
> 
> 

Go ahead, but you should read my message about the "move" stuff proposal 
I posted to sci.v-w tonight.  This would simplify it somewhat.  Also, I
think the visibility problems with REND386 will start to show with the
glove object.  (No time to implement the better HSR code now).

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.netcom.com  Tue Feb  4 00:22:48 1992
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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 92 21:23:13 PST
From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202040523.AA26250@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: EISA bus VGA cards
Status: OR

According to one of their competitors (a sales guy at the Micronics booth
at Usenix) Mylex sells a real 32-bit VGA frame buffer for EISA-bus
386 & 486 machines.  This would certainly help renderer performance...

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From thinman@netcom.netcom.com  Tue Feb  4 00:27:56 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202040528.AA26552@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Performance testing
Status: OR

Hey Dave & Bernie-

It would help us gather performance data on VGA cards if you could
include a simple "stopwatch" mode in your demo programs.  Also, I'd
be grateful if you could include compiled binary versions with the
toolkits, for those of us who don't want to wrestle with DOS compilers.  
(It would involve unpacking a hard disk & swapping it into a Unix box.)

With a stopwatch mode in such demos, we could kill two birds with one stone.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb  4 08:50:48 1992
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 08:50:43 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202041350.AA09062@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.netcom.com
Subject: Re:  EISA bus VGA cards
Status: OR

> From thinman@netcom.netcom.com Tue Feb  4 00:25:37 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: EISA bus VGA cards
> 
> According to one of their competitors (a sales guy at the Micronics booth
> at Usenix) Mylex sells a real 32-bit VGA frame buffer for EISA-bus
> 386 & 486 machines.  This would certainly help renderer performance...
> 
> Lance Norskog
> thinman@netcom.com
> 

Actually, the demo you see now spends a total of 25% of its time clearing and drawing the screen.  The rest of the time is math and structure manipulation.
If you have fewer, larger polys, it would help a lot more.  But you can
also purchase VGA (Powermaster??) VGA cards that have 1/5 the access
time of standard VGA cards, so EISA is not really needed to increase
performance yet.  Also, I have some data (non-disclosure) that says that 
you should hold onto your cash for 6 months or so.. Youll be glad you did.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb  4 08:54:08 1992
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 08:54:01 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202041354.AA10083@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Performance testing
Status: OR

> From thinman@netcom.netcom.com Tue Feb  4 00:28:44 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Performance testing
> 
> Hey Dave & Bernie-
> 
> It would help us gather performance data on VGA cards if you could
> include a simple "stopwatch" mode in your demo programs.  Also, I'd
> be grateful if you could include compiled binary versions with the
> toolkits, for those of us who don't want to wrestle with DOS compilers.  
> (It would involve unpacking a hard disk & swapping it into a Unix box.)
> 
> With a stopwatch mode in such demos, we could kill two birds with one stone.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> thinman@netcom.com
> 

There IS a stopwatch mode: hit the "R" key to get 100 redraws (I usually hit it 10x myself quickly).  In terms of VGA performance alone, it won't have a 
huge effect on this demo.  As for compiling, are'nt the libraries
what you need?  Or do you want object code?

- Dave Stampe

From taihou@iss.nus.sg  Tue Feb  4 10:03:51 1992
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From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
Message-Id: <9202041504.AA02196@iss.nus.sg>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: render full 'c' source?
Status: OR


Hi folks, the subject I think says it all. When will the
full 'c' source be released? It is indeed very fast. And I would
like to port it to the Mac. In particular, I refer to
the polyblit functions - compute_slope and tpoly. They
are written in assembly. Can someone please post the
pseudo-code, or better still, their 'c' equivalent, so they
can be easily ported to other platforms (Mac for me), and
then turn into assembly later when everything works.

Please, I sent this before. But so far no positive replies
beyond 'I'll look into it'. I know I have no right to
expect a reply. But this is such a good package it would
be ashame to restrict it to just one platform.

If I had the time, maybe I'll learn 386 assembly and then
learn the code myself. But I don't have the time.

Thanks for reading.

Tai Hou
Singapore

From thinman@netcom.netcom.com  Tue Feb  4 11:59:45 1992
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 09:00:04 PST
From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202041700.AA19724@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Picking
Status: OR

A big difference between a picture-generator library and an 
interactive graphics library is Picking.  

Would it be easy to hack the routine so that we could feed it
coordinates or rectangles and say "don't paint, just return
a list of the objects you encountered"?

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb  4 18:07:31 1992
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 18:07:24 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202042307.AA22641@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, taihou@iss.nus.sg
Subject: Re:  render full 'c' source?
Status: OR

Well, the polyblit stuff is pretty simple, and optimized for the VGA
archetecture to boot.  But you asked for it.

Compute_slope basically figures the slope of a line: (x2-x1)/(y2-y1)
times 65536 so a fractional part is kept.  This is rounded up if 
positive.  x2-x1 is returned if y2-y1 is zero.

Tpoly does a trapeziod fill, given top, bottom+1, left, and right side
starting positions.  It converts the side positions to 16-bit integer and
16-bit fractional parts, comncatenated in one 32-bit word.  1/2 times 65536
is added to the left side so it will round up.

Then it computes the address of the topmost line and the number of lines.
It does a very fast horizontal line fill (this is VERY processor dependent,
so I won't cover it in detail).  Then it bumps the line address up so
the next line can be drawn, and adds the slopes to the left and right
sides.  Shifting these values right by 16 bits gives the left and right
sides for the next line.

I haven't discussed clipping, etc. because REND386 does its own clipping.
You should get the new versions of the blitter from sunee.uwaterloo.edu
and look at the fastri() routine for a better way to do it (50% faster
for small polygons).  It relies on a CCW ordered vertex list.

First, it rotates the list till the topmost (leftmost if more than one
vertex on top line) is at the start.  Then it compares the points to
find which of 3 configurations the triangle is: flat top, flat bottom,
third point on left, third point on right, or degenerate (all on one
line).  It then processes each case as one or two trapezoidal slices.

One thing to note is that one side may carry through between two 
trapezoids.  In this case, the slope and the full precision edge
location (32 bit) is used in the next trapezoid draw.

This gives you an idea what's done.  I make no claims that it's 
optimal.  I'm sure Mac programming gurus have done good polys
on that machine.  If you need more info, please make it specific
and I'll explain further.  But I suggest you get the new code too.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb  4 18:19:24 1992
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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 18:19:19 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202042319.AA23917@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Picking
Status: OR

> From thinman@netcom.netcom.com Tue Feb  4 12:01:33 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Picking
> 
> A big difference between a picture-generator library and an 
> interactive graphics library is Picking.  
> 
> Would it be easy to hack the routine so that we could feed it
> coordinates or rectangles and say "don't paint, just return
> a list of the objects you encountered"?
> 
> Lance Norskog
> 

Yes, and we're looking at it.  But it's not gonna be a cheap operation.
You search along a line for object boundary intersections (we use spheres)
then do more expensive tests on those objects.

We are also putting together a 3-d mouse cursor right now-- you move it 
in 3D and surround a vertex or the object you wish to select.  A lit,
tumbling trapezoid sounds nice for a cursor...

- Dave Stampe

From broehl  Thu Feb  6 09:34:22 1992
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	id <AA20759>; Thu, 6 Feb 92 09:34:22 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9202061434.AA20759@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: REND386 -- C source code available
To: rend386
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 9:34:21 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: OR

The C source code for an earlier version of the REND386 library is now
available on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386/floatsrc directory.

If you don't have FTP on your system, send a mail message containing
just the word "help" to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com, and you'll receive mail
back telling you how to get the files.

The source code has been posted as separate files, since the purpose for
releasing it was to allow porting to other platforms and there are no
archive formats that are available on all the different machines out there.

The files you want are:

    read.me
    3dstrucf.h
    f3dkitn.h
    hirendf.c
    3dsuppf.c
    renderf.c
    mainf.c

These should all be retrieved in ASCII mode.  If you plan to compile and
run under Turbo C or Borland C, you will also need:

    polyblit.lib
    svga16.bgi

which should be transferred in BINARY mode (through ftpmail, this probably
means you should ask that the files be uuencoded).

Be sure to read the read.me file first -- it has some very important
information in it!

As always, direct any questions to either of us at the following addresses:

    dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca    (Dave Stampe)
    broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca     (Bernie Roehl)


From crynwr!crynwr.com!nelson@uu.psi.com  Sat Feb  8 18:24:32 1992
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Date:      Sat, 08 Feb 1992 18:13:46 EST
From: "Russell Nelson" <nelson@crynwr.com>
Message-Id: <2994642e.crynwr@crynwr.com>
Organization: Crynwr Software; 11 Grant St.; Potsdam, NY 13676;315-268-1925
To: rend386@sunee
Subject:   mouse support for demo.

Here's a rudimentary mouse support package for the rend386 demo.  It
took me 20 minutes to hack up, so you can be sure that I'll be
improving it.  It replaces joystick.obj in userint.lib.  Install it
like this:

bcc -c -ml joymouse.c
tlib userint-*joystick
tlib userint+joymouse
make

All four combinations of the left and right buttons (no middle button
support yet) does something different, just like the joystick.  The
scale isn't quite right, I'll have to fix that too.  Anyway, it sure
beats pressing arrow keys.

#include <dos.h>
#include "userint.h"

static int mouse(void)
{
	geninterrupt(0x33);
	return _AX;
}


/* joystick_check() -- returns non-zero if joysticks are found; bit zero for
   joystick 1, bit 1 for joystick 2
*/
int joystick_check(){
	_AX = 0;
	if (mouse()) return 1;
	return 0;
}


/* joystick_init(joydata, port) -- initializes the joystick; port 0 for joystick
   1, port 1 for joystick 2; this routine assume the joystick is at center
*/
void joystick_init(joystick_data *joy, int port){
}


/* joystick_read(joydata) -- reads current position and button values */
int joystick_read(joystick_data *joystick){
	int bx;

	_AX = 3;
	mouse();
	bx = _BX;
	joystick->buttons = bx;
	_AX = 0xb;
	mouse();
	joystick->x = -_CX;
	joystick->y = _DX;
}


/* joystick_quit() -- shuts down joystick operation */
void joystick_quit(){
}


/* joystick_setscale(joydata, scale) -- sets maximum range of X or Y values
*/
void joystick_setscale(joystick_data *joy, int value){
}


/* joystick_scale(joydata, dir) -- if dir == 0, marks top-left, else bottom-right
*/
void joystick_scale(joystick_data *joy, int dir){
}
-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>  I'm proud to be a humble Quaker!

From crynwr!crynwr.com!nelson@uu.psi.com  Sun Feb  9 00:54:39 1992
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Date:      Sun, 09 Feb 1992 00:15:08 EST
From: "Russell Nelson" <nelson@crynwr.com>
Message-Id: <2994b8e0.crynwr@crynwr.com>
Organization: Crynwr Software; 11 Grant St.; Potsdam, NY 13676;315-268-1925
To: rend386@sunee
Subject:   mouse is not good enough :(

Well, after playing a while with my rend386 mouse interface, I have
come to the conclusion that an XY manipulator like a mouse is
completely insufficient for examining a 3D scene.  Does anyone have
any cheap 3D input devices?  A very handy one would be an exoskeleton
for your arm with pots on each of the joints.

Or is this a question for sci.virtual-worlds?

-- 
-russ <nelson@crynwr.com>  I'm proud to be a humble Quaker!

From thinman@netcom.netcom.com  Sun Feb  9 22:18:54 1992
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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 92 19:18:54 PST
From: thinman@netcom.netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202100318.AA23218@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: burns@latcs1.lat.oz.au
Subject: Your robotics frame language
Cc: rend386@sunee

You may find one of the free Scheme implementations more useful
for your prototyping work.  An older version of ELK Scheme
(very good) is available from comp.sources.misc.

I'm using Scheme (mini LISP) as the base for my work and it's
very nice.  The code-as-data functional programming approach
is very handy for what you describe.

There is, in fact, a Macsyma/mathematica-type symbolic algebra
manipulator available for Scheme.  You might be able to use
it as a subroutine in your stuff.  It's called Jacal, and it's
written by the author of another fine Scheme implementation called
SCM.

Lance Norskog



From tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com  Tue Feb 11 14:22:46 1992
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 11:18:17 PST
From: tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com (Tony Ozrelic)
Message-Id: <9202111918.AA15769@pendragon.CNA.TEK.COM>
To: rend386@sunee

help

From tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com  Tue Feb 11 15:08:55 1992
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:06:15 PST
From: tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com (Tony Ozrelic)
Message-Id: <9202112006.AA15953@pendragon.CNA.TEK.COM>
To: rend386@sunee

connect
chdir pub/rend386/floatsrc
ascii
get read.me
get 3dstrucf.h
get f3dkitn.h
get hirendf.c
get 3dsuppf.c
get renderf.c
get mainf.c
binary
uuencode
get polyblit.lib
get svga16.bgi
quit

From tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com  Tue Feb 11 17:27:20 1992
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 14:17:00 PST
From: tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com (Tony Ozrelic)
Message-Id: <9202112217.AA16294@pendragon.CNA.TEK.COM>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: My Mail


	> connect
	> chdir pub/rend386/floatsrc
	> ascii
	> get read.me
	> get 3dstrucf.h
	> get f3dkitn.h
	> get hirendf.c
	> get 3dsuppf.c
	> get renderf.c
	> get mainf.c
	> binary
	> uuencode
	> get polyblit.lib
	> get svga16.bgi
	> quit

	No offense, but why are you sending this to the mailng-list?

	Michael

Sorry, everyone! I misunderstood the directions for ftpmail to get stuff from
sunee.waterloo.edu . 

Apparently you need to mail the script above to
ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com 

and modify the 'connect' line to 

'connect sunee.waterloo.edu'.

My apologies.

tony o.

From bannon@ra.csc.ti.com  Tue Feb 11 17:56:02 1992
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 16:55:26 CST
From: bannon@ra.csc.ti.com (Tom Bannon)
Message-Id: <9202112255.AA12720@ra.csc.ti.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Port to sparc/X?


Does anyone have any plans to port the rend386 package to a sparc and/or X
environment?

Can anyone comment on the speedups/slowdowns one might expect from doing
so?  Where would the bottlenecks be?

Thanks,
Tom Bannon

bannon@csc.ti.com

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 11 18:12:53 1992
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 18:12:09 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202112312.AA22464@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: bannon@ra.csc.ti.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Port to sparc/X?

> From bannon@ra.csc.ti.com Tue Feb 11 18:01:09 1992
> From: bannon@ra.csc.ti.com (Tom Bannon)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Port to sparc/X?
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any plans to port the rend386 package to a sparc and/or X
> environment?
> 
> Can anyone comment on the speedups/slowdowns one might expect from doing
> so?  Where would the bottlenecks be?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom Bannon
> 
> bannon@csc.ti.com
> 

Well, you'd probably be doing it in C and flating point.  There's a lot of
variation between machines, so no way of telling what the speed will be.

Second, you may notice the layers of structure indirection and loops in the
C code.  Unrolling these might help.

Finally, if the grphics environment can't do fast screen clears and
4000 or more 100-point polys/sec, it won't get great speed.

- Dave Stampe

From broehl  Wed Feb 12 11:38:27 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9202121638.AA22942@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Progress
To: rend386
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 11:38:26 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

We hope to have a new version of the REND386 library and demo out early
next week, with many additional features (including ways of moving objects
around).

Also, we've had some confusion with the glove list; some people who are on
glove-list@karazm.math.uh.edu seem to think they're on this list as well.

The two lists are separate, despite their related areas of interest.

From mandes@rpi.edu  Thu Feb 13 15:07:31 1992
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From: Shai Israel Mandel <mandes@rpi.edu>
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Date: tHU, 13 Feb 92 15:06:32 -0500
Message-Id: <9202132006.AA17078@sub.its.rpi.edu>
To: rend386@sunee, tonyo@pendragon.cna.tek.com
Subject: What's up?


Hi,

What's the problem? All that your message said was "help".

As far as what I am trying to do right now, is hook up 
the Power Glove to a Sun workstation. The only pieces of
equipment that I have to work with (besides the glove itself)
is a 6811 EVB and a 6Mhz (original) IBM PC AT. If you have
any advice (AT ALL) as to what's the best way to do that...
PLEASE TELL ME!!!

Take Care,
Shai Israel Mandel
mandes@rpi.edu

B"H

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Feb 21 11:51:37 1992
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 08:51:57 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202211651.AA07498@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: VR mechanical animation


Rodney Brooks of MIT gave two lectures at Stanford this week.
His AI robot group uses a very different philosophy about AI
than standard approaches.  His stuff is intended to work in
real-time with very low processing requirements.  I think his
techniques can be use to build interesting reactive & moving
robots in virtual worlds.

He showed how his robot control systems work.  They're just dataflow
networks of nodes, where each node is a finite state machine with a
little control logic around it.  His example 6-legged walking insect
had 9 boxes (most standing for 6 copies of an FSM) and walked OK.  He
added 6 more boxes in 3 stages, creating better locomotion over
obstacles with each addition.

The 6-legged walker used feedback loops.  A robot that hunts for
an empty soda can and carts it off had many more boxes, but
no feedback loops at all.  Low-level things like "move the wheels"
would go out, and higher-level things watch these and countermand
them.  The motor control buses are lines of countermand boxes with
higher&higher-level behaviors later in the chain overruling lower-level
commanders.  A higher-level commander can decide when to overrule.
(This no-feedback method yields a completely planar circuit
which makes VLSI compilation much simpler.)

I can add this stuff to my VR system easily, and have walking
machines & reactive systems that run with little CPU overhead.
One of his students said there's a book by John Connell of
MIT (MIT Press perhaps?) explaining the schema and design
methods.  Brooks' group has a compiler that creates the
FSM networks from higher-level descriptions; I don't know if
he'll be willing to liberate it.  

BTW: my VR system actually does stuff now.  Mouse inputs
can be fed to points that form sides of boxes.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Feb 21 18:09:32 1992
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 18:09:30 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202212309.AA00248@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  VR mechanical animation

Problem with doing this kind of stuff for VR:  it's not needed at all.  
These devices are built to react to the real (unknown) world, and
you have a very good world model in the VR system.  On the other hand,
a simplified version of the FSM based on surface contact and joint angles
would result in automatic motion.  On a flat surface, a sequence table
would work just as well.  Finally, you wouldn't need to add balance or
loading/force feedback unless you wanted the ultimate in slow but
lifelike actions.

BTW, we've just about got a select/move mouse interface done, and are
starting in on the armature motion soon.

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Feb 21 23:12:25 1992
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 20:11:35 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202220411.AA23164@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
       "Re: VR mechanical animation" (Feb 21, 10:30pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: VR mechanical animation

} 
} Care to give us more details on this, Lance?

Oof!  I spent last winter designing an overly complex dataflow
system for doing the real-time interaction part.  It's called
5D: 3D + Time (the fourth dimension) + fun stuff like sound.

What's running is a simplified version of that.  You create
nodes in an arithmetic graph (constant numbers, mouse X & Y,
arithmetic operators, points, etc.).  Separately, you create
a tree of graphics operations which take their parameters
from these nodes.  The graph is executed in sequence.  The 
tree is then drawn.  If the arithmetic makes the point values change,
the picture changes shape. 

There are multiple arithmetic graphs and multiple
trees of graphics commands.  Different graphs are run from
different clocks.  Subclocks off the main clock (vertical retrace)
or just asynchronous events fired by nodes in the arithmetic
graphs ("a switch just went on, make a light flash").

That's the essence.  This real-time graphics (& sound, eventually)
engine will become a low-level piece of a larger system.
Scheme (simple LISP) programs will rearrange the graphs
asynchronously.  Some of the arithmetic nodes can be small
LISP programs that compute values on the fly.  The LISP
intepreters talk to each other (in LISP) over network
communications.  Scheme is an excellent choice for this
job: it has code-as-data, several excellent free implementations,
and a library of cool packages.

SUN's NeWS system does this in Postscript, and it is useable
over a modem (unlike X) because applications are split apart
at high levels instead of low.  Messaging thus communicates
things like "change number X to 42" instead of 500 line
drawing commands.

I have the time and knowledge to write about 1/50'th of 5D.
It's not intended as a VR toy, but as a VR/hypermedia 
replacement for X.  I'm trying to get together a demo that will
attract attention & funding.

Lance Norskog

From thinman@netcom.com  Sun Feb 23 17:47:11 1992
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 92 14:47:33 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202232247.AA02816@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
       "Re:  VR mechanical animation" (Feb 21,  6:09pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  VR mechanical animation

The Rod Brooks stuff is very nice for VR critters.  His group in
AI is called "situationist", meaning that their systems react
to situations instead of building an internal model of the
situation and reacting to that.  "The world is it's own best
model."  The result is a system that has limited behavior 
patterns that can appear "intelligent" by doing the right thing 
at the right time. 

In fact, this is how biological systems work.  One kind of
hunting insect/spider/bug has hairs sticking out of its neck.
When the critter turns its head, the hairs touch the head and
the arm extends.  The critter only turns its head when it sees
something, and all it sees is food or enemies.  By the time
the critter knows what it is looking at, its arm is already
out.  Because of nervous system delays, this "external switch"
is the fastest way to react to a food/threat event.  Your 
nervous system works the same way.  If you touch something
hot, your arm moves your hand away and then your brain finds
out what's going on.

The actual computation requirements are very low; he compiles
his high-level Behavior Language stuff down to PALs with lots
of analog stuff feeding them.  No lisp at all :-)  it's a very
refreshing, economical system.  His smallest working robot is
a ~40-pin socket attached to a smaller motor.  It hides in the
dark until there are no noises "for awhile", comes out into the
light, looks for another dark place, and goes there.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

>From the MIT AI lab summary:



ROBOTICS



Mobile Robots

Professor Brooks and his staff and students have been building mobile
robots and testing their theories of how to organize intelligence.
They have made progress on a number of fronts: integrating complex
systems into kilogram scale robots, developing simple visual reflexes
for mobile robots, understanding how multiple robots can work together
and producing extremely tiny robots.

During the past year the first prototypes of a new generation of
six-legged robots were demonstrated, incorporating 23 actuators,
150 sensors, and 11 processors in a 2.5 kilogram package.  The
initial programs for this new generation of robots rely on a new
computational model of hormone-like arbitration of behaviors.  A
number of low computation visual reflexes, such as a loom
detector, a person head nodding-or-shaking detector, and a visual
proximity sensor for robots were designed, formally analyzed and
implemented, and demonstrated individually.  A set of 20
identical mobile robots were completed and initial programming
tests were completed as a prelude to studying group interactions
among multiple robots.  A submillimeter thin film piezo-electric
motor built on a silicon substrate using photolithgraphic
techniques was demonstrated spinning, and progress was made in
developing finite element models in order to understand its
behavior.


From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Feb 24 14:27:11 1992
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 11:27:31 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202241927.AA29793@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
Subject: More on object collisions


I forgot another point in my previous response on this topic:
object collision must definitely be computationally integrated
into the rendering phase, just as various rendering algorithms
currently mush the distinct tasks of polygon occlusion and polygon
painting into one large arithmetic exercise.

It's possible that the object collision operation can be
expressed as a set of N equations in N unknowns, and can
thus be tackled with well-known methods like determinants.
I don't know the computational requirements; it's probably
not useful for real-time work if implemented in software.
But for this research work, it's important first to
find algorithms with guaranteed predictable running
times, with known worst-case times.  After that,
making it real-time is just a hardware problem.

There's been a project in Japan (the word "Freedom"
is in all their article titles, see "Visual Computer"
sometime in 1988) to build a series of floating point
chips which just do determinants.  The researchers use
these chips to write very fast ray-tracers running on PC's!
Their articles include laundry lists of graphical interaction 
problems expressed as determinants; point-on-line, point-in-sphere,
etc.

A floating point or fixed-point arithmetic unit that did large
arbitrary-sized determinants would be a very useful tool in
a VR hardware setup.  Here's another use: several problems 
in computer graphics and robotics can be expressed by systems
of polynomial equations.  Until recently you had to solve these
systems via symbolic manipulation, which was fantistically slow
and quite error-prone.  Dinesh Manocha did a colloquium
last Friday at UCSC detailing his work (I think with John Canny at UCB)
that allows you to take such an equation set and solve it with linear
algebra using, you guessed it, determinants.  This would also use
a determinant chip.  His benchmarks were vague, but claimed that
robot arm movement problems went from 10 minutes on a 3090
to several milliseconds on an RS6000.

This is all beyond my math knowledge; here's the colloquium description:

Dinesh Manocha from UC Berkeley will speak on:

"NON-LINEAR GEOMETRY AND  LINEAR ALGEBRA"

Many problems in computer graphics, geometric and solid modeling, robotics,
vision, symbolic  and scientific computation are reduced to manipulating
system of polynomial equations.  In particular, sets of equations are used
for object representation and constraints formulation.  Typical applications
include curve and surface intersections, robot motion planning, ray tracing,
cusps and loops detection, inverse kinematics, symbolic elimination and
solving systems of non--linear equations.  Earlier approaches to deal with 
these problems can be classified into symbolic and numeric methods.
Symbolic techniques, like Groebner bases, are too slow and suffer from
numerical accuracy problems in the context of floating point computation.
At the same time numerical methods based on subdivision, iterative techniques
and continuation are far from being robust and slow in practice as well.

In this talk we present multipolynomial resultants and show their
effectiveness for manipulating system of polynomial equations.  The resultant 
is represented in terms of matrices and determinants.  As a result, we 
use algorithms from linear algebra for their application.  These include 
multivariate interpolation and modular computation for symbolic applications 
and Gauss elimination, singular value decomposition and eigendecomposition 
for numeric methods.  Based on multipolynomial resultants we present 
efficient algorithms for implicitizing rational parametric surfaces and 
eliminating a set of variables from a system of equations to obtain a 
symbolically smaller system. We also apply the results to the problem 
of curve and surface intersections and present efficient and robust 
representations and algorithms for geometric and solid modeling systems. 
The technique can also be specialized for ray tracing and detecting cusps 
and loops.  Finally we present a real time algorithm for the inverse 
kinematics of general six revolute and serial manipulators.  Inverse 
kinematics of general six revolute manipulators had been an open problem 
in industrial robotics for more than three decades and had significant 
impact on the design of robot manipulators.  Other applications of inverse 
kinematics algorithm include goal directed computer animation and physical 
based modeling.




From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Mon Feb 24 22:20:56 1992
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          Mon, 24 Feb 1992 15:22:17 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 13:48:32 GMT
Message-Id: <9993.9202241348@helios.leicp.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: graphics demo


If you haven't seen it already, I'd suggest
you download a copy of the "ultraforce vector
demo" (?) from saffron.inset.com or elsewhere.
It's called vectdemo.zip and it features probably
the fastest 3d graphics I've seen on a PC
(but that's not necessarily saying anything... :-)

It also features an audio track, but I don't have 
a soundblaster so I can't comment on that.

Has anyone seen this demo?  Will REND386 be
faster?



Chris

From broehl  Tue Feb 25 13:54:09 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9202251854.AA20246@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: graphics demo
To: rend386
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 13:54:08 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
> If you haven't seen it already, I'd suggest
> you download a copy of the "ultraforce vector
> demo" (?) from saffron.inset.com or elsewhere.
> It's called vectdemo.zip

I've put a copy of this on sunee, in the pub/vr directory.
(The site saffron.inset.com doesn't allow daytime access to its
archives, and the only other place I could find it was a site in
Australia; hopefully having it on sunee will make it a little more
accessible).

> Has anyone seen this demo?  Will REND386 be faster?

Yes, and yes.  The vectdemo is certainly spiffy; I like their metallic
shading effect.  It's actually quite simple to do in 256-color mode;
if you pause the demo (using the backspace key) and look closely, you'll
see that every scanline within a poly is the same color.  They basically
cycle through a set of metallic colors on consecutive poly scan lines,
the cycling being influenced by the angle of the polygon.  Neat effect,
and cheap to implement too; we may put this into REND386 when we switch
to 256-color mode.

The "reflections" on the surface of the "water" are just the images above,
sampled every so many scanlines to give a compressive effect; I see this
as a frill, though it does enhance the overall look.

The spheres are neat -- and again, simple to do.  In fact, the spheres are
cheaper in terms of processing time than the polygons (which is why their demo
uses so many of them!).  Spheres never change shape; no matter what angle you
view a sphere from (within reason) it has a circular cross-section.  To move
them, you transform a single point -- the sphere's center; for a polygon, you
must transform every point (250 in the bishop, for example).

The spheres (as far as we can tell) are stored as bitmaps in VGA card memory;
these are just copied in, depth-sorted along with the polys.  Memory-to-memory
copies within the VGA card are very fast.  There are basically several copies
of the sphere at different sizes and colors.

Of course, the spheres don't change size smoothly with distance, but increasing
the spacing between them gives the illusion that they are.  Also, the
highlights never change (the brightest point is always at the top right of the
sphere); this serves to confirm the bitmap theory.

Still, fun to look at and well worth the download (if you have a VGA and
a 286 or better).  Whoever put it together did a *lot* of work.

As to whether REND386 will be faster... in a way, it already is.  The
bishban.plg file we use as our test case has 512 polygons in it; how many
polys did you see in even the most complex scene in vertdemo?  The thing that
makes theirs look so good is the metallic shading, which is relatively easy
to do, and the movement (which is also not hard).


From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Feb 25 16:26:49 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 13:26:46 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202252126.AA29298@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: To collide or not to collide? That is the question...


Just scanning it, I don't see how to make an object that
doesn't have the collision property.  Do all objects have
to collide, or do I have to go off and do non-colliders
separately after calling render_scene()?

There are lots of things that shouldn't collide.
For example, the Information Visualizer stuff includes
a 3D crosshair cursor which you move around to pick stuff.
Its fine for this thing to disappear behind objects, because
it has three lines out to the edge of the screen along it's
XYZ axes.  (In fact, it has four lines on each axis and lets
you size 3D bounding boxes.)

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Feb 25 16:33:56 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 13:34:14 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202252134.AA00266@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Indirect pointers to everything

More on library.doc:

I want wiggly objects.

You've fallen into the GL trap!  I want to give not points
or colors but pointers to memory containing the point or the color.
The renderer should be able to read out each point and color
on each update.  This means that the object manager can't
compute the bounding box, but that instead you have to supply
it one that also varies.  That's cool.  Unfortunately the
polygon normal stuff won't work at all.  I didn't realize
you were pre-computing those.

GL objects don't have this feature because their objects are
stored out in hardware and can't be bothered to run back to
RAM to get values each time.

Granted, you're planning ahead for multiple processors, and this 
does screw that up.

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Feb 25 16:41:44 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 13:42:03 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202252142.AA01314@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Animation & rendering

This level of hardware is capable of cartoon-level pix,
not film-level pix.  I.e., it will not look "realistic",
whatever that means.  The Realism Fans all want to use film-style
motion depiction, where animation methods are more appropriate.

Animation has its own language for showing motion, completely
unlike film.  "Snap and stretch" means that an object elongates
in the direction of motion, then changes back to it's original
shape as it arrives.  So, a moving cube should become rectangular
and then cubical once again.  

A moving circle would become elliptical then circular once again.
Thus, you would represent it as an ellipse with the foci coincident.
As it moves, the foci spread apart then come together.

Instead of motion blur you would use "speed streaks", little
lines going away from the object's direction of motion.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 25 18:12:17 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 18:11:59 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202252311.AA17372@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Indirect pointers to everything

> From thinman@netcom.com Tue Feb 25 17:58:53 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Indirect pointers to everything
> 
> More on library.doc:
> 
> I want wiggly objects.
> 
> You've fallen into the GL trap!  I want to give not points
> or colors but pointers to memory containing the point or the color.
> The renderer should be able to read out each point and color
> on each update.  This means that the object manager can't
> compute the bounding box, but that instead you have to supply
> it one that also varies.  That's cool.  Unfortunately the
> polygon normal stuff won't work at all.  I didn't realize
> you were pre-computing those.
> 
> GL objects don't have this feature because their objects are
> stored out in hardware and can't be bothered to run back to
> RAM to get values each time.
> 
> Granted, you're planning ahead for multiple processors, and this 
> does screw that up.
> 

Unfortunately, if you want real-time "wiggly" things in software,
you have to kiss speed goodbye.  If only a few objects "wiggle", you
can redefine them for each frame.  Including polygon normal calculation.

REND386 is designed using the ideal of a world of mostly-static objects,
with largely solid objects.  Obviously this type of standard will not
handle every type of animation desired.  So you will have to write your
own object creation interface to do wigglies.. no big deal, since you'd
have to do it anyway (it'd just be more embedded if done in the renderer).

As for collision detection, we're looking at it.  It's easy to get a short
list (1-15) objects that are collision candidates to the limit of bounding-
sphere intersection, but after that tests get more expensive.  Seems to
be O(NN) for polys in an object, at best.  So you're limited to simple
bounding volumes, simple objects, or some other stuff (such as precompiled
BSP trees for object inside/outside recognition) that I'm looking at.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 25 18:18:34 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 18:18:31 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202252318.AA18329@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Animation & rendering

> From thinman@netcom.com Tue Feb 25 18:04:41 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Animation & rendering
> 
> This level of hardware is capable of cartoon-level pix,
> not film-level pix.  I.e., it will not look "realistic",
> whatever that means.  The Realism Fans all want to use film-style
> motion depiction, where animation methods are more appropriate.
> 
> Animation has its own language for showing motion, completely
> unlike film.  "Snap and stretch" means that an object elongates
> in the direction of motion, then changes back to it's original
> shape as it arrives.  So, a moving cube should become rectangular
> and then cubical once again.  
> 
> A moving circle would become elliptical then circular once again.
> Thus, you would represent it as an ellipse with the foci coincident.
> As it moves, the foci spread apart then come together.
> 
> Instead of motion blur you would use "speed streaks", little
> lines going away from the object's direction of motion.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> thinman@netcom.com
> 


REND386 is not meant to produce photorealistic or cartoon pictures.  It
is a VR graphics engine: it does "just good enough" graphics at high 
speed.  For realism, I suggest regenerating output as positions and using
a ray-tracer.

Speed streaks are really only appropriate to static or very slow scenes.
For example 1 fps would be appropriate.  They'd just clutter up a REND386
image-- especially in a real-time interactive VR system.

If you really want to distort objects, go ahead!  Recreate the object for erame, then polygonize and add to the object list.  That's how ThingWorld
displays its stuff.  But you'll find the speed is pretty poor.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 25 18:24:35 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 18:23:55 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202252323.AA19797@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  To collide or not to collide? That is the question...

> From thinman@netcom.com Tue Feb 25 18:14:35 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: To collide or not to collide? That is the question...
> 
> 
> Just scanning it, I don't see how to make an object that
> doesn't have the collision property.  Do all objects have
> to collide, or do I have to go off and do non-colliders
> separately after calling render_scene()?
> 
> There are lots of things that shouldn't collide.
> For example, the Information Visualizer stuff includes
> a 3D crosshair cursor which you move around to pick stuff.
> Its fine for this thing to disappear behind objects, because
> it has three lines out to the edge of the screen along it's
> XYZ axes.  (In fact, it has four lines on each axis and lets
> you size 3D bounding boxes.)
> 
> Lance Norskog
> thinman@netcom.com
> 

We're looking at collision detection.  Noncollidibles ("virtual" objects)
and division-by-area are a few of the techniques possible.  Basically,
there's just a set of flags for each objects.  Another set of flags might
be added to optimize collision, for example on axis-aligned objects
(tabletops, walls) or to allow simplified collision by bounding volume
only.

Lots of thought needed on this topic, but some stuff is settling down.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 25 18:31:04 1992
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 18:29:42 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202252329.AA20360@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  graphics demo

> From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 22:36:51 1992
> From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: graphics demo
> 
> 
> If you haven't seen it already, I'd suggest
> you download a copy of the "ultraforce vector
> demo" (?) from saffron.inset.com or elsewhere.
> It's called vectdemo.zip and it features probably
> the fastest 3d graphics I've seen on a PC
> (but that's not necessarily saying anything... :-)
> 
> It also features an audio track, but I don't have 
> a soundblaster so I can't comment on that.
> 
> Has anyone seen this demo?  Will REND386 be
> faster?
> 
> 
> 
> Chris
> 

Bernie managed to download it yesterday.  We spent an hour or so with a stopwatch and calculator and figured out what it does and how fast it really is.

Basically, it's not faster than REND386 for what it does (In fact, it's 
possibly slower).  It uses simple "flashy" effects and spheres (mode Y
sprites) to do its stuff.

If anyone has created graphics with REND386, you'll see its faster with
the 30-40 poly figures used.  Sphere's don't really count, as they are
easier to process than polys, and faster to draw.  But they'd be a 
problem in wide-angle VR displays (>80 degrees FOV) as they'd be distorted.

BTW has anyone actually bothered to create new objects for REND386 yet?

- Dave Stampe

From taihou@iss.nus.sg  Wed Feb 26 04:57:00 1992
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From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
Message-Id: <9202260957.AA08238@iss.nus.sg>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Vectdemo source code?


This must be the longest shot yet.
Does anyone know if the authors of the amazing vectdemo will
release the source code? It is the most astounding piece
of work yet. And it runs on a lowly 10Mhz 286!!!

Never mind that it may not be true light-sourcing or mirroring.
Never mind that they use lots of easy-to-compute spheres.
The fact is that however easy it is suppose to be, it demonstrates
fast 3D shaded-polygons on a lowly 286.

Please, source code...

Tai Hou
Singapore

From ml4477@csc.albany.edu  Wed Feb 26 12:00:21 1992
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From: ml4477@csc.albany.edu (Marc A. Lefebvre)
Message-Id: <9202261659.AA24975@sarah.albany.edu>
Subject: RE: graphics demo
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 11:59:23 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 
> > From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 22:36:51 1992
> > From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
> > To: rend386@sunee
> > Subject: graphics demo
> > 
> > 
> > If you haven't seen it already, I'd suggest
> > you download a copy of the "ultraforce vector
> > demo" (?) from saffron.inset.com or elsewhere.
> 
> BTW has anyone actually bothered to create new objects for REND386 yet?

	Well, I actually I have...  nothing to exciting because I was trying
to get used to the format of it.  First I created a house,  then a four and
five sided pyramid.  Right now I am attempting to create a octogonal (like a
really rough soccer ball) shape.  Is there an easier way than just plotting
on 3D graph paper; maybe a program that creates PLG files from some graphics
drawing program that converts to that format?


> 
> - Dave Stampe
> 

---
  ___________________________________________________________________________
 /    **   ****	                                   |     World Cup 1994	     \
|    **   **  **   Marc A. Lefebvre	   	   |        --USA--           |
|   **   **    **   Computer Science Department    |Go  Albany Capitals -APSL |
|  **	**  *   **   University of Albany          |--------------------------|
| *******  ********                                | "Don't Drink and Derive" |
|		"I'd rather be windsurfing!"	   `--------------------------|
|  ml4477@sarah.albany.edu   ml4477@rachel.albany.edu   marc@nick.csh.rit.edu |
 \___________________________________________________________________________/


From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Wed Feb 26 18:14:46 1992
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Date: 26 Feb 92 23:12
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9202252329.AA20360(a)watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <18858.9202262312(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: graphics demo

RFC-822-HEADERS:
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==================
> BTW has anyone actually bothered to create new objects for REND386 yet?
> 
> - Dave Stampe
> 

Creating .PLG files manually seems less than attractive
at the moment... has the OFF->PLG converter seen the light
of day yet?

On a related note, anyone know of any *free* programs to
manipulate/create 3D models?  .DXF support? ah well...

Oh yes, and what's "ThingWorld"?


Chris

"end of term soon... then I can get some *interesting work done!" 
:-)




From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Feb 26 19:09:22 1992
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 19:06:45 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202270006.AA08310@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: graphics demo


Thingworld is a X-based system developed over the last 10 years at MIT.
It defines objects as geometrical, distortable shapes, then polygonizes
these for each frame.  Advantages: easier collison detection (so they
claim!) and realiztic modelling (clay) and dymanic distortions.
Disadvantages: too slow for complex real-time worlds (A few figures
can be done at a half-decent rate).  This came up during discussions
on collision detection on sci-vw, so I dug up the papers.

- Dave Stampe

From rogers@rtf.bt.co.uk  Thu Feb 27 17:47:51 1992
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From: Neal Rogers <rogers@rtf.bt.co.uk>
Message-Id: <13168.9202271730@bscsq1.rtf.bt.co.uk>
Subject: concave objects
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 17:29:59 WET
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


Dave Stampe wrote :

>BTW has anyone actually bothered to create new objects for REND386 yet?

I'm about to knock some walls down in my house, and rebuild the kitchen, 
so I thought I'd try to model this using rend386. This brought some problems
to light - maybe the problems are in my .plg file, or maybe they're in the
software. I don't think it's the .plg though. My conclusions are as
follows -

1. Some of the faces of concave objects are displayed when the normal is
_away_ from the viewpoint.

2. and vice-versa, some faces of concave objects are not displayed when the
normal is towards the viewpoint.

3. Clipping is sometimes a bit weird. Something like..if a vertex of a
polygon is behind the viewpoint, then the polygon is treated as though
that vertex isn't part of it (sometimes). Strange triangles appear.

Also, a couple of other things -

1. Where's the light source ? Surely this should be in the .plg file.

2. If the .plg file is incorrectly specified (e.g. the number of vertices/
polygons provided is less than the number specified on the first line),
rend either crashes or does nothing. Seems like no sanity checking of the
data is performed.

3. Holes (such as windows) cannot be created (at least I tried the usual
methods).

Admittedly the viewpoint is inside the object (the house) but surely
this is a prerequisite for VR. I also realise the docs don't mention
vertex ordering in concave polygons - I tried only the usual one of
ensuring the first three vertices are clockwise when viewed from 'outside'
(in this case).

-----
Neal Rogers
rogers@rtf.bt.co.uk  BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Feb 27 18:13:10 1992
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 18:13:04 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9202272313.AA02602@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, rogers@rtf.bt.co.uk
Subject: Re:  concave objects

First, only convex polygons are supported.  Split concave polys up if
you have to.

Second, check that all polys are CLOCKWISE from the desired viewing 
side.  This is not the case for some methods of defining polygon strips.
To be inside an object and yet see it, reverse the "outside" polygon
vertex order, or have two polygons (inside and outside) for each wall.

Third, to create holes, DON'T add extra verteces to a poly: use 4 polys 
to make the wall (or whatever).  

If these don't get you going, e-mail me the file and I'll look at it.

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Feb 28 00:25:41 1992
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 92 20:46:22 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9202280446.AA27122@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: rendering & video modes

Keeping the screen to 320x200 allows the software to avoid
switching the video paging address registers.  I'm interested
in larger screen modes where 4 (640x400) or 6 (960x720)
separate rend386 windows appear at once, with only one active
at a time.  This is somewhat silly for eyephone operations,
but would help with a desktop information environment.  With
enough RAM we can even do stereo buffering for the whole 
screen; 1024x768x16 is <512kb of VGA ram.  Moving the mouse
would turn on different screens.  Actually, we can do
overlapping 320x200 windows this way because the VGA registers
let you set the X & Y ram addresses.

It's a shame I don't like overlapping windows...

Lance Norskog

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Mar  2 12:23:03 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9203021723.AA11239@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Picking reconsidered


I've checked out SGI GL's picking stuff, and it's a joke.
You put the system into a special pick mode, you go through
your whole draw operation without really drawing anything,
and the system logs all the times it painted on your desired 
(x,y) coordinates.  Ick!

I've come up with four possibilities for integrated picking support.

1:
For an object-based renderer with a Z-buffer, every time you
write a Z-buffer pixel you also write the object number into
a separate array of screen dimensions.  This gives an "object map"
of the screen.  (More later)

2: Check the X&Y coordinates on each Z-buffer write when writing
a pixel.

3: For a scan-line renderer, don't do anything when painting
but just be able to call the scan-line checker with the desired
(X,Y) coordinates and have it tell you "I would have painted
this object".

4:
For a collision-based system, make a 3D line, cylinder, or rectangular 
prism extending from the viewpoint to the far wall of the world based on
a 2D point, circle, or rectangle selected with the mouse.  Check the
collision of this long thin object against the object database.

Note that #4 lets you pick not a single X,Y point, but a neighborhood.
This is much more useful.  Note that #1 also supports this, because
you can search the neighborhood of the X,Y point for objects as well.
These picking devices are not very precise, and my experience in
learning musical instruments tells me that learning to "play" a
mouse or glove or Polhemus-puck will be very very difficult.
Neighborhood picking is very important.  

#1 is a hardware-ish solution; #2 is software-ish.  We certainly
don't want the GL solution.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From shabby@mentor.cc.purdue.edu  Mon Mar  2 18:33:14 1992
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: the renderer...
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 92 18:33:09 -0500
From: shabby@mentor.cc.purdue.edu


I'm having a bit of difficulty compiling the demo on QuickC on the 386
I'm using here.  When Qc tries to link the three libraries, it coughs
and mentions (for each external routine) the error, "intersegment self-
relative fixup at C6 in segment _TEXT, pos: 499, Record Type: 9c, target 
external '_new_objlist'

I also tried downloading the polyblit source, and instead of linking the 
polyblit lib, I tried to just compile it in.  It coughed on the assembly
code, though.  It didn't recognize things like "extrn" and ".386".  
(I'm pretty assembly ignorant so I kind of wrote that off as a dead end..)

Has anyone else tried using QuickC to compile this?  If so, what did you
tweak to get it to work?  Little things like adding an underbar before
"far" and so forth I have figured out, but now I'm in over my head,
I think.

I'm also stuck using QuickC as a compiler, since Purdue doesn't deem it
important to provide their students with any C compilers.  QuickC itself
is only licensed to one user at a time.  Heaven forbid I might choose the
same night to work as someone else...

-Shabby
(shabby@mentor.cc.purdue.edu)

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Mar  2 21:51:53 1992
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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 21:51:51 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203030251.AA11731@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Picking reconsidered

We're implementing something in REND386 that uses the sorted list (by order)
of polys generated by the renderer.  Just do a quick compare for each
poly to see if the point is in it-- works pretty fast.  As the Qsort to
do this takes 4 mS, you can do this anytime you need, even if you use a
scanline renderer.

- Dave Stampe

From gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi  Tue Mar  3 05:27:38 1992
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1992 12:04:04 +0200
From: Tommi Manttari <gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Message-Id: <199203031004.AA06508@phoenix.oulu.fi>
To: rend386@sunee



Here is what happened when I tried to compile Demo.exe (in devel.zip).
--Look down--

Is it a bug or did I do something wrong? I used 'make'-command to compile,
but I did not manage to do it right. 

I use Turbo C 2.0 and TLink 2.0 and Make 2.0 all from Borland. Is the compiler
wrong or why the Makefile won't make it right?????


Here is what happened...
-------
  Address         Publics by Name
.
..    here everything is just fine untill...
...
Error: Undefined symbol F_LDIV@ in module JOYSTICK
Error: Undefined symbol F_LXMUL@ in module JOYSTICK
Error: Undefined symbol F_FTOL@ in module 3DSUPP
Error: Undefined symbol F_LXLSH@ in module HRENDO5
Error: Undefined symbol F_LXRSH@ in module HRENDO5
Error: Undefined symbol ___assertfail in module HRENDO5
Program entry point at 0000:0000
--------


The 6 last lines are errors. What is wrong with it? Could anybody tell
me? 

I have tried my frieds' compilers (TC 2.0) too and they make the same
errors...so it cannot be just my compilers fault.
Has anybody compiled the demo with success? What compiler did you use?
What is the version? 

I found out that those JOYSTICK.OBJ and others are compiled by C++.
Could this cause the problems??


I would be very grateful for any help

   - Tommi Manttari -       tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Tommi Manttari                   | tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi               |
| Tirolintie 2b 209                | tomppa@stekt1.oulu.fi              |
| 90530 Oulu 53                    | tomppa@stekt2.oulu.fi              |
| Phone: 981-5507222               | gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi           |
|                                  | gruesome@rainbow.oulu.fi           |
|                                  | toma@otitsun.oulu.fi               |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi  Tue Mar  3 09:03:36 1992
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	id AA19195; Tue, 3 Mar 1992 16:02:24 +0200
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1992 16:02:24 +0200
From: Tommi Manttari <gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Message-Id: <199203031402.AA19195@phoenix.oulu.fi>
To: rend386@sunee



Here is what happened when I tried to compile Demo.exe (in devel.zip).
--Look below--

Is it a bug or did I do something wrong? I used 'make'-command to compile,
but I did not manage to do it right. 

I use Turbo C 2.0 and TLink 2.0 and Make 2.0 all from Borland. Is the compiler
wrong or why the Makefile won't make it right?????


Here is what happened...
-------
  Address         Publics by Name
.
..    here everything is just fine untill...
...
Error: Undefined symbol F_LDIV@ in module JOYSTICK
Error: Undefined symbol F_LXMUL@ in module JOYSTICK
Error: Undefined symbol F_FTOL@ in module 3DSUPP
Error: Undefined symbol F_LXLSH@ in module HRENDO5
Error: Undefined symbol F_LXRSH@ in module HRENDO5
Error: Undefined symbol ___assertfail in module HRENDO5
Program entry point at 0000:0000
--------


The 6 last lines are errors. What is wrong with it? Could anybody tell
me? 

I have tried my frieds' compilers (TC 2.0) too and they make the same
errors...so it cannot be just my compilers fault.
Has anybody compiled the demo with success? What compiler did you use?
What is the version? 

I found out that those JOYSTICK.OBJ and others are compiled by C++.
Could this cause the problems??


I would be very grateful for any help

   - Tommi Manttari -       tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Tommi Manttari                   | tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi               |
| Tirolintie 2b 209                | tomppa@stekt1.oulu.fi              |
| 90530 Oulu 53                    | tomppa@stekt2.oulu.fi              |
| Phone: 981-5507222               | gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi           |
|                                  | gruesome@rainbow.oulu.fi           |
|                                  | toma@otitsun.oulu.fi               |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From broehl  Tue Mar  3 09:43:08 1992
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	id <AA11872>; Tue, 3 Mar 92 09:43:08 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9203031443.AA11872@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Compiling REND386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 9:43:08 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Here is what happened when I tried to compile Demo.exe (in devel.zip).

We've had reports of this before; I'm using Turbo C++ version 2.00, and
Dave is using Borland C++; I suspect you'll have to upgrade to a more recent
version of the compiler.

(We've tried compiling under an older verison of C, but the inline assembler
code wouldn't work (the .386 directive isn't recognized).


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Mar  3 15:45:59 1992
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 15:45:51 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203032045.AA03056@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: broehl@sunee, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Compiling REND386

The next version of the libraries may not need an upgrade: we'll
look into removing stuff like assert() calls etc. which are not
compliler/library portable, or including pieces of the C library
into the libraries.  The next release probably won't be out for 
2 - 6 weeks, though.

- Dave Stampe

From lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com  Tue Mar  3 20:46:42 1992
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Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 17:45:59 -0800
From: lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com (Chee-Ming Lim)
Message-Id: <9203040145.AA02103@atlas.corp.sgi.com>
To: rend386@sunee, broehl@sunee, dstamp@watserv1
Subject: Problem with Torus object under REND386


Hi Dave,

	I generated a 100-poly torus object and tried to view it using the
	demo.exe program.  For some reason, two pie-sections of the torus 
	keeps "breaking up".  I don't think it is the .plg file (reproduced
	below : uudecode and then unzip).  Was wondering if you would be kind
	enough to take a quick look.
	The torus was generated lying in the X-Y plane with the Z-axis
	coincident with the axis of the torus.  The X-Y plane also bisects
	the torus.  Let me know if you need further descriptions.
	-------------------CUT HERE--------------------------------
begin 644 tsmall.zip
M4$L#!`H````&`%QX8QCR(9*H=04``%D5```*````5%--04Q,+E!,1PT"`1(C
M%!4V-VB)FML\!082$T3%]I;WZ<YM&Y8M6Y`Q8<(8G@T5VH3IPG@%3Y`@DI,R
ME+/O31.GRYHTTG?,'-6[Y<R:+F7:O!DSYHWPR#'"XVO>L-XV9\[,.2,\<@OQ
M0#D']!9J`VL81AA82...!@<\,,8!`WJ[O%EC?\.\438VIDT7V1KF3!K?7P-8
MPZP9HWC;0.LT95COFS9STJP1'EE&]9P1O/!MKFK?,FDL;YDYPB.W$`^4<T!O
MH3:PAF&$@84T[FAPP`-C'#!OY@#?,LI4P:)LPCLAQG:90UI=J[/,>M.D>>-_
MVP"/F5?4:WGCO+'F<*NL=XT[MDT:X+$MP@.-'#!;E`V<8!A@X!"-&QJ\[\`"
M!RRPP6]Q)&"$QYD9K/"X)($A'G,.:$L"9QA8PL!J,SA,@0,>G''`Z"WP6Z0Z
MT,1C#ATL\9A5!V,\DCJ@M#HXQ<`@!H:C@R,56.'!,@>T5`!^BXH+-/&8F0>6
M>,S%!6,\DCJ@9%QPBH%!#`R=!XY48(4'RQS0PF^*9:?.L9D(>\+/X,W/A!'%
MRF;LRUC]L7%X$3[&;G5.F#AG)&Y@5>8:A_*Y-]1CQ@-)'5!;O`V,8AAB8#"-
M6QJL\$`S![3A-:QO2.H*CQ`,/^-4-\6&X9:]*W?EQ;Y9(SQR#,=J&U4H:47G
MG(FCV6<T9L?`9`3Q0#D']!9J`VL81AA82...!@<\,,8!HVSPG@0,)P&C24!C
M$M"6!"PE`2-)P$`2L(X$+"/A!!-"K`,-UH'VZD!Q=:"T.C!8'6BK#C15!T:J
M`T/D8/`WB"`^QO"40?X@I(OGRV+*E''=J"OH.6-XRL!NU!7TI#$\96`WZ@IZ
MUAB>,K`;=04];0Q/&=B-NH*>-X:G#.Q&74%/',-3!G:CKJ!GCN$I`[M15]##
M[+!N98ND=`RY/J,I!K<:WC.NVWD!MP;1,5(&=3X#;C6\9V"WI@3<&D21D@9U
M7@-N-;QG8+>F!-P:A$),&]3Y#;C5\)Z!W9H2<FL0GD\<U'F.()K=LQY0BZ1T
M#(AP&DTQN!5H[;HU)>!6PYL&=N,OX%;#FP9V:TK`K88W#>S6E(!;@\#Q68,Z
MMP&W&MXTL%M3`FXUO&E@MZ:$W&IXT\!N38D@&O)9CWTB*1UC<%ZC*0:W&MXU
MKEM3`FZ%,X;=FA)P:Q`A*6=0YS3@5L.[!G9K2L"MAG<-[-:4@%N#@%2CSF_`
MK4%45MZ@SG'(K89W#>S6E`BBV3WK84XDI6-LL-$4@UL-;QO7K2D!MP;QHU(&
M=3X#;@4AA]V:$G!KD#52I)EC<*OA;0.[-27@5L/;!G9K2L"M03C8O$&=XY!;
M#6\;V*TI$42S>]8CFDA*D:2\T12#6PWO&]>M*0&W&MXWL%M3`FXUO&]@MZ8$
MW`HD#+LU)>#6(`1^UJ#.;<"MAO<-[-:4@%L-[QO8K2DAMQK>-[!;4R*(9O>L
M!W^1E#+E,K^F&-P*D7;=FA)PJX8[[-:4@%L-;QS8K2D!MQK>.+!;4P)NY<$/
MNS4EX%;#&P=V@UK`K88W#NS6E)!;#6\<V*TI$42S>];CO$A*+>C,T12#6X.(
M8#,&=2X#;C6\<V"WI@3<:GCGP&Y-";C5\,Z!W9H2<*OAG0.[-27@5L,[!W9K
M2L"MAG<.[%:VD%L-[QS8K2F)0REEW:2+I+2,AYTPG&)Q*[`;!G9S2L2MDC<,
M[.:4B%N!W3"PFU,B;@5VP\!N3HFX-0B'DC:H<QMQJZD;!G9S2L2MLFX8V,TI
M,;<:^S"R&]]BB(9W8+>^)0RGA,,UOB6,IH3'4GQ+&$V)CZ7XEC":$A]+\2UA
M-"4^EN);PFA*?"S%MX31E/A8BF\)HRGQL=3>$D93#&0IOCF,IP1VH]X:4$L!
M`@L`"@````8`7'AC&/(ADJAU!0``614```H``````````0`@`````````%13
>34%,3"Y03$=02P4&``````$``0`X````G04`````
`
end


==================================================================
C.M. Lim
lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com


															C.M. Lim
															lim@thor.corp
															X1303





From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Mar  4 00:03:10 1992
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	id AA06151; Tue, 3 Mar 92 21:03:11 PST
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 21:03:11 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9203040503.AA06151@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
       "Re:  Picking reconsidered" (Mar  2,  9:51pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Picking reconsidered

The case I didn't consider is glove-based picking, i.e. real 3D picks.
For this, you need to create a transparent oddly-shaped volume
surrounding the virtual fingers.  Or chopsticks.

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Mar  4 01:35:29 1992
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 92 01:35:23 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203040635.AA02141@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Picking reconsidered

> From thinman@netcom.com Wed Mar  4 00:02:58 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>, rend386@sunee
> Subject: Re:  Picking reconsidered
> 
> The case I didn't consider is glove-based picking, i.e. real 3D picks.
> For this, you need to create a transparent oddly-shaped volume
> surrounding the virtual fingers.  Or chopsticks.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> 

Or just have a sphere/box/cylinder for each finger segment...  This lets
the glove image "flex" to match the grip surface of the object.  That's
what I assume when I do my collision-detection cost calculations.
BTW, I have the time down to about 25 uS per poly/edge, but it's still
O(NN) or worse, so is still kinda infeasible so far...

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Mar  4 02:14:40 1992
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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 92 02:14:38 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203040714.AA04505@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Lim's torus problem


It's very simple: vertex numbers start from 0, NOT 1.  I
got it to work by adding a dummy vertext to the start of the list,
then increasing the vertex count to 101.  Pretty fast (35 fps)
on my machine...

- Dave Stampe

From lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com  Thu Mar  5 20:39:06 1992
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 92 17:38:21 -0800
From: lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com (Chee-Ming Lim)
Message-Id: <9203060138.AA11359@atlas.corp.sgi.com>
To: rend386@sunee, dstamp@watserv1
Subject: Thanks! and new questions...


	Thanks, Dave, for help on the torus problem.
	
	Next question.  I converted a wine-glass object into plg format and 
	had some viewing problems.  At certain locations, under polarview 
	mode, I would be able to see through the base of the wine-glass and 
	see the stem of the wine-glass.  Is this the z-depth sorting problem
	(precision?) you had mentioned in the documentation?

	Also, to achieve better resolution and realism, will you be
	considering moving to higher resolutions (from 320X200? currently)
	and more colors?  (256? 32K?).  Is your main concern speed? or
	non-conformance to std? or is it multiple pages for motion?

	C.M. Lim





From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Mar  5 22:12:52 1992
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 92 22:10:47 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203060310.AA17701@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Thanks! and new questions...

> From lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com Thu Mar  5 20:38:59 1992
> From: lim@atlas.corp.sgi.com (Chee-Ming Lim)
> To: rend386@sunee, dstamp@watserv1
> Subject: Thanks! and new questions...
> 
> 
> 	Thanks, Dave, for help on the torus problem.
> 	
> 	Next question.  I converted a wine-glass object into plg format and 
> 	had some viewing problems.  At certain locations, under polarview 
> 	mode, I would be able to see through the base of the wine-glass and 
> 	see the stem of the wine-glass.  Is this the z-depth sorting problem
> 	(precision?) you had mentioned in the documentation?
> 
> 	Also, to achieve better resolution and realism, will you be
> 	considering moving to higher resolutions (from 320X200? currently)
> 	and more colors?  (256? 32K?).  Is your main concern speed? or
> 	non-conformance to std? or is it multiple pages for motion?
> 
> 	C.M. Lim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Probably.  This is one of the cases where the deepest vertexes match in depth.
Once I get some time to implement the scanline renderer this stuff will
go away.

Speed:  320x200,16 color is faster than any other.. 320x200,256 colors is predicted to run slower.  For example, if something runs at 15 fps on my machine,
it'll run at about 10-11 fps in 256 colors (add about 20 mS to the render
cycle time).  Higher resolutions also give a performance hit.  But since
this is a symptom of the slow VGA card interface, the hit will be constant
on all machines, and you can speed things up by getting a high-performance
VGA card.

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Mar  9 10:18:36 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
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To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
Subject: TECH: Collision Prediction, take 2

More from comp.graphics:
} From: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
} Subject: Solution: shortest distance between two segment-paths.
} 
} [...]
} 
} The problem:
} 
} Given a line segment and a point(p) find the point(n) on the segment
} nearest the point(p). [ ... ]
} 
} By now I realized that my REAL need is to find the shortest distance
} between two line segments, not a line and a point. And moreover, as the
} lines represent the path of two points moving in a fixed rate in a
} straight line then I am only interested in the distance between two
} RELATED points on these paths. Strangely this problem was easier to
} see. Here is how I do it now:
} 
} Given a point a(x,y,z) and a segment from it va(x,y,z), a point b(x,y,z)
} and a segment from it vb(x,y,z) we observe that the parametric line
} segments are
}     (ax+d*vax,ay+d*vay,az+d*vaz) and (bx+d*vbx,by+d*vby,bz+d*vbz)
} Where d is between 0 and 1, and it is the SAME d for related points on
} the two line segments.
} 
} The distance (squared) is: 
}     (ax+d*vax-bx+d*vbx)^2 + (ay+d*vay-by+d*vby)^2 + (az+d*vaz-bz+d*vbz)^2
} 
} which expands to:
} 
}     d^2*((vax-vbx)^2 + (vay-vby)^2 + (vaz-vbz)^2) +
}     2*d*((ax-bx)*(vax-vbx) + (ay-by)*(vay-vby) + (az-bz)*(vaz-vbz)) +
}     (ax-bx)^2 + (ay-by)^2 + (az-bz)^2
} 
} The minimum is when the derivative is zero:
} 
}     2*d*((vax-vbx)^2 + (vay-vby)^2 + (vaz-vbz)^2) +
}     2*((ax-bx)*(vax-vbx) + (ay-by)*(vay-vby) + (az-bz)*(vaz-vbz)) == 0
} 
} Which is a straight forward calculation.
} 
} d = ((ax-bx)*(vax-vbx) + (ay-by)*(vay-vby) + (az-bz)*(vaz-vbz)) /
}     ((vax-vbx)^2 + (vay-vby)^2 + (vaz-vbz)^2)
} 
} However, this need not be calculated always. if the first term is
} negative then the nearest distance is between the starting points. If
} the first term is larger than the second then the end points are
} closest. Otherwise we need to calculate 'd' and subtitute into the
} parametric line squations.
} 
} In practice there are many common terms, so the math goes like this:
} 
} x  = bx-ax
} y  = by-ay
} z  = bz-az
} dx = vbx-vax
} dy = vby-vay
} dz = vbz-vaz
} 
} s = x*dx+y*dy+z*dz;
} if (s > 0) {
} 	t = dx*dx+dy*dy+dz*dz;
} 	if (s >= t) {
} 		x += dx;
} 		y += dy;
} 		z += dz;
} 	} else {
} 		x += dx*s/t;
} 		y += dy*s/t;
} 		z += dz*s/t;
} 	}
} }
} 
} neartest distance = x*x+y*y+z*z;
} 
} If all I want is to know when the two paths are closest then I can
} ignore the case (s >= t) because the end points will be the start
} points of the next time I do the test (next time interval). I may
} choose to ignore the case when (s < 0) as the objects are getting away
} from each other but for (s == 0) I have a real minimum.
} 

He didn't mention it before, but he appears to be working on 
collision detection also.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Mar  9 10:37:24 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
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To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Collision prediction

>From comp.graphics, on finding the closest points on two lines:
} 
} You might take a look at the code in the X flight simulation, ACM.  Code in
} fsim/m61a1.c addresses a generalized case of this problem:  It looks for
} the minimum distance between two points moving along two line segments with
} constant velocities.  In your case, one point would be stationary.
} 
} Basically, the algorithm works like this:
} 
} * Pick one of the points as the reference location.
} 
} * Build a parameterized system of equations that expresses the relative
}   location of the second point relative to the first:
} 
} 	s0.x = initial_loc2.x - initial_loc1.x;
} 	s0.y = initial_loc2.y - initial_loc1.y;
} 	s0.z = initial_loc2.z - initial_loc1.z;
} 	v.x = vel2.x - vel1.x;
} 	v.y = vel2.y - vel1.y;
} 	v.z = vel2.z - vel1.z;
} 
}   In your case, the velocities would correspond to the slope of the line.
}   Assuming that location2 is the stationary point, the v vector would be
}   equal to the negative slope of the line.
} 
}   At that point, the position of point2 relative to point1 can be expressed
}   as:
} 
} 	x = v.x * t + s0.x;
} 	y = v.y * t + s0.y;
} 	z = v.z * t + s0.z;
} 
}   The parameter t is time, in my usage.
} 
} * You can then determine the time, t (which is relative to the time at initial
}   locations), corresponding to the point in time where the two points are
}   closest.
} 
} 	t = - (v.x * s0.x + v.y * s0.y + v.z * s0.z) /
} 		(v.x * v.x + v.y * v.y + v.z * v.z);
} 
}   Assuming that location2 was the stationary point, you could then
}   plug t into the line equation to yield the exact closest point.
} 
} The sources to ACM can be ftp'ed from expo.lcs.mit.edu; the filename is
} contrib/acm.2.4.tar.Z.
} 
} Good luck.
} 
} -- 
} Riley Rainey			Internet: riley@mips.com
} MIPS Computer Systems		Phone:    +1 214 770-7979
} Dallas, Texas
} 

Here's another take on collision detection: for all possible
object bounding thangs, use the above algorithm to predict whether
and when they will collide.  This is done in preprocessing.  When an object
is deleted from the scene, its collisions are removed from
the list.  When an object is added, its collisions are
calculated and added to the list.  When an object's bounding thang changes,
its existing list of collisions and "near points" are recalculated.
If an object collides, its future collisions are recalculated.
The list still has them for efficiency reasons.

The above only works for constant velocity object motion.  You can add higher
derivative behavior to the motion of objects easily enough, and
it should be in the simulator anyway for efficiency.  I.e. if
something is accelerating you don't speed it up by program control
on each cycle, you just set an acceleration parameter.  The collision
predictor can integrate the higher derivatives into its calculations.
(This last sentence goes far beyond my knowledge of differential equations).

This "collision prediction" technique, though limited, uses temporal 
coherence and pushes the N-body O(NN) stuff into a once-only 
preprocessing phase.  These two are important goals for a collision
detection system.  The technique is also most useful for identifying 
candidates for more in-depth checking.  

I will conclude by pointing out that if you have to sort 5 items, it
doesn't matter how you sort them.  The same is true for collision
detection.

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com

From eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au  Mon Mar  9 18:15:24 1992
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From: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
Message-Id: <9203092312.AA14379@echo.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: user input routine
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 9:12:56 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hello everyone

I just picked the demo and devel zips. It seems that the sources are
mostly missing so I picked vgaline.asm assuming this is the line drawing
code.

I noted that the user input routine is rather minimal (from the doco
on changes) so I left in pub/incoming/get_str.zip the routine I use these
days. It comes from a recent CUJ issue (I am almost sure) but I added the
expected msdos keys. It is mostly independent of the user i/o, just call
get_str_ini() ang supply your own i/o primitives. It handles history as
well as line editing. It is small. The history buffer memory structure
stinks ( a proper circular buffer with variable length entries is the way
to go) by I didn't get to upgrading it.

-- 
Regards
	Eyal Lebedinsky		eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Mar  9 23:29:41 1992
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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 20:29:38 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
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X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Object collision & coprocessors


The collision detection problem is one of the few "cleavage planes"
where VR software can be broken apart into co-processors.  

Given a separate copy of the world model, the simulator processor
can run the simulation a small number of time ticks ahead,
processing the known changes (objects flying around in straight lines)
and saving the state for the unfinished computation of each time tick.
The deferred computation for time T would then be finished at time T
given the latest mouse or glove input.  There is no great communication
bandwidth needed between the simulator and the main processor;
this last is the achilles heel of coprocessor-based systems.

The simulator can even apply predictive (Kalman) filtering to the
mouse and glove motions and tentatively do the collision prediction
anyway.  If the prediction for time T is with N% of the actual input
for time T, you just go ahead and use the predicted version instead.

Another major cleavage plane is sound generation.  Note that this
can also be generated and partially mixed down in advance using
the same techniques as the simulation processor.

Lance Norskog

From weathert@cs.umr.edu  Mon Mar 16 23:29:18 1992
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From: weathert@cs.umr.edu
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To: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.edu
Subject: rend386
Cc: rend386@sunee

	I have been following the progress of rend386 with great intrest.
I was wondering if you are planning to incorporate the code with the glove
and possibly the sega glasses.  If not, is there someone else following
the 386 renderer that is?  I was just wondering what the end result of your
work was in terms of hardware.  And if you had any speculations on a time-table.
Thanks for your time.

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Mar 17 12:35:03 1992
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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 92 09:35:20 PST
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
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X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: convolvotrons


On Mar 11,  9:27am, Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng wrote:
} 
} In theory (at least) about 200 or so points will cover the "perceptual
} sphere" that sounds can originate from to a delay accuracy of 20 uS
} (1 sample).  You could store 200 examples of each sound for various
} angles... Nahhh.
} 
Digital mixing at sound speeds is easy.  You could store X number
of octants on the sphere and interpolate from the neighboring few
points.  Now all you need is a batch system to pregenerate these
base samples.  On ems.media.mit.edu is a program suite 'PV',
I think pv.tar.Z, which includes a time->frequency->time library
and a bunch of programs that use it.  

There's a CCRMA (Stanford U computer music center) tech report
that I've been meaning to get on "waveguides", which I think is 
a cheap method of reverberation.   The reverb treatments I've
read involve analog filtering which we can't do in real-time.

With preplaced samples, easy reverb, and the horizontal placement
stuff we mentioned (volume, phasing, Doppler) you could do a
good job at the level of the Focal Point product.

Lance Norskog




From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Mar 17 16:16:52 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203172116.AA07943@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.edu, weathert@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu
Subject: Re:  rend386
Cc: rend386@sunee

> From weathert@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu Tue Mar 17 09:06:43 1992
> From: weathert@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu
> To: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.edu
> Subject: rend386
> Cc: rend386@sunee
> 
> 	I have been following the progress of rend386 with great intrest.
> I was wondering if you are planning to incorporate the code with the glove
> and possibly the sega glasses.  If not, is there someone else following
> the 386 renderer that is?  I was just wondering what the end result of your
> work was in terms of hardware.  And if you had any speculations on a time-table.
> Thanks for your time.
> 

Well, we've had one offer to integrate it to pwerglove code, but 
nothing else so far.  And since the powerglove code is due for an
upgrade anyway (I hope to look at it sometime in March...).  The
REND386 was designed to be used with Sega glasses: problem is just
how to sync it to card scanning without sitting and waiting for the
sync switch (since some VGA cards don't do vertical interrupts, it's
not trivial...)

Next upgrade will certainly add 256-color support (it's already in
there, in the form of "user-defined" color set and polyblit calls,
and the fast 256-color polyblit code.  Seems no one has tried it 
themselves, though...).  Object motion is now in C code, and just
needs assemblyizing.  Rudimentary collision detection... Maybe.  I'd
really like to get the scanline renderer added in the next upgrade too,
but it depends on time.  All this should be done by late April/early May.

Eventually, I'll be running it with a Powerglove (maybe modified a bit)
a pair of modified VGA cards, a HMD consisting of 2 4" B&W TVs and 
Fresnel lenses (just have to mount the stuff) and a head-tracker using
a video tracker card I developed and a $200 RC modelling camera.  Hope
to be done by September.

- Dave STampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Mar 17 16:27:46 1992
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Date: Tue, 17 Mar 92 16:27:39 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203172127.AA09711@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re: convolvotrons

Well, in terms of multiplies and other measures the direct method
is cheaper than convolution.  You could even synthesize a 10-element
lattice filter for use with commercial chips.

The direct method probably won't be as convincing from a "still-head"
test, but should work well if coupled to head motions.  After all,
even the sampled convolution methods show 3x as much image scatter 
and 2x the number of "front to back" reversals as actually listening
to the sound.  With the direct method, you can at least "boost" some
of the cues.

Interesting fact: similar to stereo depth vision, about 10% of people
are effectively deaf to direction, and another 10% have no sense of
binaural "elevation"!  They rely exclusivly on head movements to find
sound sources.  Hmmm...

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Mar 17 22:34:00 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9203180334.AA26960@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
       "Re:  rend386" (Mar 17,  4:16pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>, rend386@sunee
Subject: killer vga

Orchid is shipping a 486/33 motherboard with their Farenheit 1280
card on the board, with a "32-bit" bus between the two.  I saw this
in an ad, so have no idea what this really means.  I don't remember
if the Farenheit has 32k colors.  640x400x32k is 512k, so that gives
reasonable resolution & coloration.  The 32-bit bus is great for
flat-filled polys, but with lit ones I think you're stuck with one
pixel paints, so we want bus speed instead of width.

Gee, it sure would be nice if you had official benchmark binaries that
we could run on different machines (yes, that again).

Lance Norskog

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Mar 17 22:37:45 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
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To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
Subject: more on scan-line renderer & copying

Now I remember what I meant!  If you're doing double-buffering,
and using a scan-line renderer, and track parts of the screen
that need to be updated, you can OR the last two update regions
together and repaint those on the T-2 buffer that you're about
to reuse.  So, you don't repaint the backbuffer completely, and
you don't copy a fixed background from somewhere.  

This only works with a fixed viewpoint.

Lance Norskog

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Mar 17 23:27:11 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9203180328.AA26297@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
       "Re: convolvotrons" (Mar 17,  4:27pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: convolvotrons

The "too many wires to my body" problem is real.  I would prefer
to listen to "real surround sound" with those infrared headphones;
so a head-tracking system that bolted on to those would be ideal...

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Mar 18 00:35:05 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203180535.AA02309@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  killer vga

Actually, I did write a short test program, but it seems to vary
between machines as well as between cards quite a bit.  It does 
compensate for CPU speed, so it must be measuring the expansion
bus times as well.  Latest data: the ATI VGA Wonder cards are 
about twice as fast as my old Paradise cards.  Should cut down
the cost of 256-color a bit...

Also, the VGA Wonder series seems to have NTSC-compatible sync
and timing built into their chipset!  They won't give out how
to access it though (but I have their register maps).  So once
I get some hardware I'm waiting for, I'll sit down and figure out
how to do it.. you could get NTSC color output for $20 and 2 chips
with them, if it works out.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Mar 18 00:39:27 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203180539.AA02410@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  more on scan-line renderer & copying

> From thinman@netcom.com Tue Mar 17 22:37:38 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
> Subject: more on scan-line renderer & copying
> 
> Now I remember what I meant!  If you're doing double-buffering,
> and using a scan-line renderer, and track parts of the screen
> that need to be updated, you can OR the last two update regions
> together and repaint those on the T-2 buffer that you're about
> to reuse.  So, you don't repaint the backbuffer completely, and
> you don't copy a fixed background from somewhere.  
> 
> This only works with a fixed viewpoint.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> 

Unfortunately, this actually takes longer than just drawing once
you've done all the rest of the scanline stuff... you can use
really optimized VGA code once the scanline has produced the spans.
Or you just rewrite some of the polys w/o clearing the buffer at all
(background is just a big poly...) but tracking is kinda hard to do.
Determining the update map is the hard part...

- Dave STampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Thu Mar 19 05:51:55 1992
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Date: 19 Mar 92 10:15
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9203172127.AA09711(a)watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <19686.9203191015(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: convolvotrons

RFC-822-HEADERS:
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==================
> Interesting fact: similar to stereo depth vision, about 10% of people
> are effectively deaf to direction, and another 10% have no sense of
> binaural "elevation"!  They rely exclusivly on head movements to find
> sound sources.  Hmmm...
> 
> - Dave Stampe
> 

Does anyone have any references on this stuff?

Why do the VR headsets I've seen have *four* speakers in, one in
front of and one behind each ear?  I would have thought that
true "stereophonic" (hey, what a word!) sound would be simple enough
with one speaker per ear.

What about "binaural" recordings?  What is there to stop us synthesizing
a binaural signal though an ordinary pair of headphones?



Chris



From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Mar 19 11:34:46 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203191631.AA01192@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: convolvotrons

I assume the 4 speakers are a cheap way of getting the front/back
element w/o processing the signals (just use the volume balance as
you would for left/right).  Wasn't aware that 4-speaker phones
were still available, since quadrophonic sound died in the late
1970's.

Now binaural recordings are missing a crucial element: they can't 
track head movements!  So either the illusion disapperas when you
move you head, or the virtual room moves with you (dizzy?).

But it is quite feasible to do the front/back stuff electronically,
and that is part of what I'm looking into.  You can do it with 
convolutions, or by simple delay lines and filters.  Whether you
want to add elevation (above/below) depends on how complex the
circuits are.  I can create this illusion using a 10-band graphic
equalizer as well (but it's not as good as a circuit designed for
the task would be).

- Dave Stampe`

From thinman@netcom.com  Thu Mar 19 13:09:57 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9203191807.AA06091@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
       "Re: convolvotrons" (Mar 19, 10:15am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: convolvotrons

Now, if you put one speaker above the ear and one below,
THAT would make it easier to do vertical effects.

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Mar 19 16:46:05 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203192143.AA11782@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re: convolvotrons

> From thinman@netcom.com Thu Mar 19 13:11:51 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>, rend386@sunee
> Subject: Re: convolvotrons
> 
> Now, if you put one speaker above the ear and one below,
> THAT would make it easier to do vertical effects.
> 

Well, actually, the front-to-back and up-and-down speakers IN NO WAY
work as well as the left-to-right balancing for positioning sound.
This is because of the way they're combined at the ear: left-to-right
does vector phase addition between the ears (you need some crossover
for this to work with phones, and most modern recordings have it).

But the up-down and front-back rely on pinna transforms, which are 
pretty radically different for these directions.  The sound source
you sense will be pretty smeared out and may be hard to pin down.
You'd probably need about a 4x4 grid of drivers... MUCH easier to
do it electronically!

Of course we're not looking for pinpoint sound localization anyway
since this is a cheapie...

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Sun Mar 22 19:56:53 1992
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Date: 22 Mar 92 17:27
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <346.9203221727(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: BBD delays etc. (was Re: convolvotrons)

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==================


> 
> I believe that's a National Semiconductor part?  The external components
> are good news though.. you can trim the bandwidth (sounds like the
> usual "feedback-filter" type of circuit).  
> 
> The design will have to go like this: an external delay circuit (do
> you know of any better parts than the SAD1024?  That's what I used 
> in my last model) to set the "azimulth" delay, then the equalizer
> set for 7 bands between 1.5 and 18 KHz.  Some sort of interface 
> to the PC, too.   May be tough finding someone who carries the chip
> though (local suppliers want you to order 30-100 minimum...
> 
> -Dave Stampe
> 
Could be Nat Semi, but they're usually "LM"; don't know about "LMC".
(IC databooks, anyone?).

As far as suppliers go, it *used* to be available mail-order from
Maplin Electronic supplies here in the UK, but it's gone from this
year's catalogue. :-(  Maplin cater for hobbyists, so if it's available
then quantity is not a problem.  They take credit card orders by
modem too.

They've got some new bucket-brigade delay chips though:
I don't have specs for the SAD1024, so I don't know if they're
better.

MN3207 1024-stage low voltage BBD.  Max audio delay 51.2ms
MN3011 3328-stage BBD w/ 6 taps.  Max audio delay 166.4ms.
	"6 o/p's are provided with different non-related delay
	times so that a natural reverb effect can be created
	by mixing these signals."


They also have a "speech pitch shifter IC" (MSM6322) that
will shift the pitch of an audio signal (8kHz B/W I think)
up or down 1 octave.  How useful would this be for simulating
doppler in moving sound sources?


Chris

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Mar 22 20:00:19 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203220258.AA16086@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Preview of next release...


I found some time this weekend to work on REND386, and have
gotten the 256 color stuff going.  Most of the work was in
retrofitting the user-interface stuff.

The speed decrement in going from 16 to 256 colors is not as
bad as expected: 15-polygon worlds have a 20% speed loss, and
500-polygon worlds have a 12% speed loss.  So it dropped from
16 fps to 14 fps testing with bishban.plg.

The 256-color stuff can be used in cosine-lit and unlit modes
simultaneously.  Each color word for the polygons has a hue
and brightness field-- if you specify the hue as zero, the 
brightness field specifies the DAC entry to use.  If the hue
is from 1 to 15, that "base color" is used (with the brightness
field specifying the reflectivity of the polygon) with the cosine 
light source.  There are 16 levels (plus black) of brightness per
hue.

The cosine-lighting actually looks a bit dissapointing in color,
mainly because of the few (16) levels of brightness available.
This allows interaction between the colors of adjacent polygons,
causing apparent hue shifts.  The unlit stuff does not look as
3 dimensional (looks a lot like a velvet or flourescent surface)
but altogether it's not bad.  Don't think it's worth going to
7 hues with 32 brightnesses, however.

Got the mouse-select in the demo debugged finally (OK for selecting
and testing).  Selected objects are wireframed over the polys (neat
effect).  Still have to decide on the exact object-motion interface
and do some sort of demo on structured motion.

Any suggestions while the hood's up?

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Mar 22 23:44:55 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203230444.AA29589@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  BBD delays etc. (was Re: convolvotrons)

I suppose the MN3207 can be split into 2 shorter lines (the SAD1024
could)?  The MN3011 sounds right for the reverb: only 1 is needed for
the whole unit.  Dunno about theshifter though: it's probably fixed
to 1/2 or 2x.  Easier to "warp" the sound source, I guess.

Any idea who makes the "MN" parts?  Sharp, perhaps?

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Mon Mar 23 06:38:54 1992
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Date: 23 Mar 92 11:30
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9203220258.AA16086(a)watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <8519.9203231130(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Preview of next release...

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==================
> 
> Any suggestions while the hood's up?
> 
> - Dave Stampe
> 

What resolutions does the new version support?  Does it include
the "tweaked VGA" 360x480x256 as used in fractint?  I suppose this
uses too much RAM to be double-buffered?

What about SEGA LCD glasses support? (not that I even know anywhere
that sells them here in the UK...).

Is there an OFF-->PLG converter floating around anywhere?  If not
I will knock one up in the next couple of weeks, time permitting.
Even better, how much hassle would it be to allow the REND386
code (or demo or W.H.Y) to read OFF files directly?


Cheers,

Chris




From clarke@next1.acme.ucf.edu  Mon Mar 23 08:11:46 1992
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From: clarke@next1.acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke)
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To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Subject: Re: BBD delays etc. (was Re: convolvotrons)
Cc: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee

MN parts are by Panasonic now, used to be an American company (of  
course :-)

DigiKey 1-800-344-4539 sells them.

From blau@ist.ucf.edu  Mon Mar 23 08:13:14 1992
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From: blau@ist.ucf.edu (Brian Blau)
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Please remove me from the mailing list


Thanks,  Brian

From broehl  Mon Mar 23 09:15:40 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9203231415.AA17104@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Re: Preview of next release...
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 92 9:15:40 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> What resolutions does the new version support?

320x200x16 and 320x200x256

> What about SEGA LCD glasses support?

Relatively easy to add, and can be added in the user's application code
(i.e. does not need to be part of the library).  Simply render the left
and right eye images to different pages, then arrange to switch pages (and
LCD shutters) every so often (probably under interrupts).

> Is there an OFF-->PLG converter floating around anywhere?

I was working on one, and hope to get back to it this week (maybe in time
for our next release).  Bear in mind that most OFF files have far too many
points in them to be practical for real-time work.

> Even better, how much hassle would it be to allow the REND386
> code (or demo or W.H.Y) to read OFF files directly?

Not hard, and again something that could be done in the application program
without modifying the library at all.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Mar 23 10:07:31 1992
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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 92 10:04:55 -0500
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9203231504.AA23089@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Preview of next release...

The REND386 code has always had mechanisms (user-definable functions)
to set your own resolution, colors, drawing routines, etc.  No one 
seems to be using them, though!  All I did for the 256-color mode
was clean up some of the user-interface code and write some new 
color-setting and drawing-interface code.  No assembly required!

In the case of 320x400, it just requires that you write your own
mode-setting routine, set the clipping window, and either write your
own page-setting routine or use only even pages.  Go to it.

Sega glasses:  I'm thinking of posting a small test program I've
written that tests for VGA vertical interrupts, as well as speed.
This would give us some idea whether to go with interrupt or timer-driven 
methods.  Again, you can easily write your own code (set_vpage() affects
nothing else, so you can call it from interrupts).

In conclusion: REND386 is flexible, so you're responsible for your
own customizations.  If you need help-- well, that's what this
mail-list is for!

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Mon Mar 23 17:28:08 1992
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Date: 23 Mar 92 22:25
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9203230444.AA29589(a)watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <16417.9203232225(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: BBD delays etc. (was Re: convolvotrons)

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==================
Dave Stampe writes:
> 
> I suppose the MN3207 can be split into 2 shorter lines (the SAD1024
> could)?  The MN3011 sounds right for the reverb: only 1 is needed for
> the whole unit.  Dunno about theshifter though: it's probably fixed
> to 1/2 or 2x.  Easier to "warp" the sound source, I guess.
> 

Pinouts looks like this:

	Ground    -| U |- output 2
	clk pulse1-|   |- output 1
	input     -|   |- clock pulse 2
	Vgg       -|___|- Vdd              (MN3207; 1024 stage BBD)


	Ground    -| U |- input
	clk pulse2-|   |- Vgg
	Vdd       -|   |- Clock pulse 1
	           |   |
                   |   |  <-- weird gap
	output 5  -|   |- output 1
	output 5  -|   |- output 2
	output 4  -|___|- output 3	  (MN3011; 3328 stage BBD)

There's also a MN3101 clock generator chip to create the
2-phase clock signal req'd (MN3102 low-voltage chip for
the MN3101).


==> Just for the record, I'm actually on the rend386 mailing
    list, so please don't "cc" messages to me -- I'm getting
    everything twice 8^/ 


Chris


From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Mar 24 01:32:44 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
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In-Reply-To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
       "Re: Preview of next release..." (Mar 23, 11:30am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Preview of next release...

The OFF stuff on decwrl comes with a read/write library.

Lance

From dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA  Thu Apr  9 00:25:56 1992
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From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Dion Francois)
Message-Id: <9204090422.AA06324@brise.ERE.UMontreal.CA>
Subject: Power up your computer!
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 0:22:39 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi everybody,

I have one question and one comment.

First the comment: Intel has introduced speed doubler 80386 and 80486. What it
means is that internally these DIRECT REPLACEMENTS for your actual cpu, work
at twicec the external speed. What it means is 70% average acceleration! So
now a 486-50 is a real contender for VR (100 MHz internal clock!).

Now the question: How do you plan your VR system? I was thinking of either
a system with eyephone ( the most serious solution) or sega glasses... I know
that this is not sci.virtual-worlds but i think it has a serious impact on the
way i will use Rend386.

Francois Dion

p.s. Have any of you developped something relatively to rend386? I have done
some converters but the most crucial still has some problem: off2plg. When
this will work, i will have a 3d hand for all you powerglove fans.
p.p.s speaking of powerglove, what happened to the glove list?
-- 
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________



From tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi  Sun Apr 12 16:53:44 1992
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From: Tommi M{ntt{ri <tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi>
Message-Id: <9204120832.AA08051@stekt.oulu.fi >
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386-packet



Hi. We use your Rend386-packet to make our VR-program. We are now using
Borland C++ in our programming (Had some problems with TurboC). Before
we start programming we have some questions about Rend386 library:

   - Is it possible to change colors in rend386.lib (svga16.bgi)?
     If it is, how can I do it?
   - Can I change the Display Mode? For example 320*200*256?
   - What other things are possible for svga16.bgi?
   - Is there any Mouse support allready?
   - Is it possible to get any source code of those *.lib files?
   - How can I convert objects made by CAD to *.plg format? Is there any
     programs for that? Or is there any other programs awailable to make
     objects (other that CAD)?

I would appreciate if I could get answers to some of these questions.

     -Tommi Manttari-


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Tommi Manttari                   | tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi               |
| Tellervontie 2A 40/3             | tomppa@stekt1.oulu.fi              |
| 90570 Oulu 57                    | tomppa@stekt2.oulu.fi              |
| FINLAND                          | gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi           |
| Phone: (358)-81-363376           | gruesome@rainbow.oulu.fi           |
|                                  | toma@otitsun.oulu.fi               |
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From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Apr 12 18:22:06 1992
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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 18:09:39 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204122209.AA22396@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, tomppa@stekt.oulu.fi
Subject: Re:  Rend386-packet

The answer to most of these is "wait for release 2.0" (coming this week,
we hope).  REND386 has support for all graphics modes and special cards
etc. by user-definable color select, screen clear and paging and poly
drawing (in the "render.c" file.

The new release has mouse support, 256 color support (at a 20%-30%
speed penalty), better documentation (we hope!) and segmented motion
(joint angle and location, etc).  This should make it easy to implement 
animation and Powerglove cursors.

You don't need svga16.bgi anymore, as the last Borland graphics stuff has
been implemented (had to, to support Y mode 256-color screens fully).
More of the internals will be released as source (although the very
center kernals will remain in library form till they're stable, 
wgenever that may be).

Stay tuned.

-Dave Stampe

From Bobster@cup.portal.com  Tue Apr 14 16:43:25 1992
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From: Bobster@cup.portal.com
Subject: REND386 and movement?
Lines: 22
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 04:07:46 PDT
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X-Origin: The Portal System (TM)

     I praise the authors of REND386 for their superb program!
 It truly is an amazing peice of programming. However since they asked
for possible improvements I have an idea or two. Why not set the view
port to the origin and thus save a few mults? (If I remember correctly
it is a bit faster than moving the eye around.) Then instead of moving
the eye, move and rotate the objects. I would like to see each object
include it's own x,y,z rotation and x,y,z location in the view system.
Finally, the 3d clipping could  possibly be speeded up by setting the
eye to the origin. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 3d clipping will
not show any part of an object if some part of it has passed the view?
If this is so, then the clipping could be speeded up by just checking
for a negative z coordinate in an object, when the eye is set to the
origin. I am sorry if I have stated something that has already been
implemented, can be implemented with the next verson, or is just plain
stupid. I am just a lowly neophyte in the world of graphics and a new
owner of an IBM 486-33. (Zoom!) I have programmed some 3d code on a
68000 and would like to attempt these mods, if the authors don't want
to take them up. It apears like minor changes in the existing code to
me. Is there anyway to get the ASM source code for the REND386.LIB?

Thanks for the GREAT PROGRAM and your time.
   

From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Apr 15 03:07:07 1992
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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 00:07:40 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9204150707.AA12045@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Bobster@cup.portal.com
       "REND386 and movement?" (Apr 14,  4:07am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Bobster@cup.portal.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: REND386 and movement?

The basic idea of VR is that you have sensors on someone's head
and move the viewpoint when they move their head.  Or that you
have a funky control mechanism hooked up to mouse movements.

Of course, this supposes you're using REND386 for VR.  I'm more
interested in using 3-D software to show complex information
landscapes, and after using other VR systems I get more and more
sure that the right way to do this is to have a set of predefined
vantage points and jump between them.  In movies, this is called
"cutting" instead of "panning".

In this paradigm, for each switch it's easy to set the viewpoint to 0
by giving all objects working XYZ coordinates relative to the
viewpoint, view angle, and rotation.  Viewpoint changes would be slow
but updating the scene might be faster.  Interesting...

Lance Norskog

From broehl  Wed Apr 15 17:00:13 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9204152100.AA04145@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: NEW RELEASE OF REND386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:00:13 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The second major release of the REND386 package is almost complete.

The new demo is available now on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386
directory; the filename is "demo2.zip".  The old version of the demo and
the old developer's toolkit is in pub/rend386/old (and even older versions
are in directories below that).

The new developer's toolkit is finished; I'm just working on the documentation.
It should be available in a day or two, and we'll post an announcement to the
list when it's ready.

CHANGES: the package now supports 256 color mode, and no longer requires the
presence of a .bgi driver file (we were only using that for initialization and
text, anyway, and now that's all handled internally).  We also support moving
objects individually (requires a mouse), and we have implemented hierarchical
segmented figures.  We also support two new "surface types".

IMPORTANT NOTES:

    Sorry, but neither Dave nor I have the time to mail out individual copies
    of the code, either electronically or on floppies.

    If you don't have FTP, you can retrieve the packages using ftpmail.  Send
    a mail message containing just the word "help" (without the quotation
    marks) in the *body* of the message (not the subject line) to the
    following address: ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
    That site will then send you back an email message describing how to use
    ftpmail to retrieve the file(s) you want.  Be sure to read the
    instructions carefully, and follow them exactly; if you have problems,
    try talking to a guru at your site.  Please don't ask Dave or me to
    help you through it. 

    Again, Dave and I have only so much time available, and we'd much rather
    spend it working on enhancing the software than on helping people work
    their way around Unix, DOS, ftp, ftpmail, zip, etc etc

    If you don't have pkunzip, you can get it in the same directory as the
    demo2.zip file itself.  Remember to transfer both demo2.zip and
    pkunzip.exe in Binary mode!

    If you have any questions/problems/suggestions, please send them to
    me (broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca) or Dave (dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca).
    If you think they're of more general interest, you can send them to
    the mailing list (rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca).  Requests to be added to
    or deleted from the list, or changes of electronic mailing address, should
    be sent to rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (not to the list).

    Happy rendering!

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Apr 15 19:29:11 1992
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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:29:55 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9204152329.AA02840@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Great!

I just want to be one the first to thank you gentleman for REND386.  The
new version ( demo2 ) is outstanding.  Thanks for making this graphics 
package available to those of us who are either too busy to write a 
graphics package or just don't want to.  

The demo is great and I am anticipating the libraries so that I can 
rewrite the Virtual Hand and Virtual Handshake to take advantage of REND386.

Thanks,

joe

From messinger@ranger.enet.dec.com  Thu Apr 16 15:27:00 1992
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Apparently-To: rend386@sunee

dir
exit

From broehl  Thu Apr 23 15:57:01 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9204231957.AA06632@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: REND386 developers kit now available
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 92 15:57:00 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The file is pub/rend386/devel2.zip on sunee.uwaterloo.ca; the documentation
is still a bit sparse, but should be enough to work from.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Apr 23 18:05:35 1992
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Date: Thu, 23 Apr 92 18:05:32 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204232205.AA22734@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Upcoming glove-Sega driver


I'm currently working on an integrated interrupt system that will
drive a PowerGlove and also provide frame-locked interrupt services
for the Sega glasses switching-- WITHOUT needing a card that supports
vertical interrupts!  (That part of the code is done, and I'm just
cleaning up the glove driver for inclusion now).

The code will include a section to control the Sega glasses so you
can change to your own method if desired.  The glove driver will also
be modifiable.  You can also elimnate the Sega or PowerGlove code
calls.

I also will be updating some sections of the REND386 code to allow me
to write a stereoscopic viewport creation routine.  Hopefully this will
be flexible enough to support all possible HMD systems as well.  You
should be able to offset the screens, flip them horizontally or vertically,
etc.  The stereoscopic routines will create viewprt structures from a
given viewport and some stereo information.  Still have to do this stuff.

Any comments or requests?  I'll be working on it till Saturday at least, 
so get 'em in soon.

- Dave Stampe

From MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Apr 23 21:08:39 1992
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Date: 24 Apr 92 13:01:39 GMT+1200
From: Jim McGrath <MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re:  Sega 3D thingy
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.920424130140.288@orpheus>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1b.

> I just finished up today a software driver that works with cards
> without vertical interrupts.  It monitors the vertical sync time,
> calculates what interrupt clock speed to set, then re-synchronizes
> to the video frame switching every 5 frames.  Less than 1% CPU
> overhead.  I'm also looking at integrating it with the Powerglove
> driver, so they're all interrupt driven.  (Get that done tomorrow).

> I'll have to add a bit to REND386: some sort of compute_stereo_viewport()
> routine or something-- just give it a normal viewport and some stereo
> factors (convergence distance, interocular spacing, magnification) and
> it'll give you left and right eye views.  More work...  But this will be
> designed to work with eyephones as well as Sega glasses.

> -Dave Stampe

I don't know if you had posted that to the list so...

These eyephones you mention, what are they?

Has anyone out there started on a DXF to OFF converter yet?
--
Jim McGrath             mcgrath@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
--

From thinman@netcom.com  Thu Apr 23 22:44:48 1992
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Date: Thu, 23 Apr 92 19:42:43 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9204240242.AA11906@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
       "Upcoming glove-Sega driver" (Apr 23,  6:05pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Upcoming glove-Sega driver

You could add a joystick poller to every Nth interrupt.
Joystick cards these days have switches for fast CPU's,
and I soldered a 47kohm resistors in parallel
with my input pots to speed up the polling.  With 200-300kohms
in parallel the pots will count down in 20 or 30 loops max.  
No big deal.

The resolution drops proportionately but you can still use the
numbers anyway.

S3 cards are pretty cheap, but I don't know exactly what
stuff they support.  They're billed as "Windows Accelerators"
so they're probably just 2D line-drawer-helpers.

And, of course, a DJGPP port :-)  Wait till you start doing
stereo sound sampling, you'll overrun 640k like a
herd of caribou!

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Apr 24 01:19:41 1992
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Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 01:19:09 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204240519.AA24853@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Sega 3D thingy

An eyephone is sort of a wide-field of view headmounted display that
should track the user's head position with its images.  I'm making a
set out of Fresnel lenses and B&W mini-TVs.

- Dave STampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Apr 24 01:28:04 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204240527.AA25859@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Upcoming glove-Sega driver

Well, much as I'd like to tap into the glove and hook to the fingers,
I can't write software that assumes that, as it wo'nt work for everyone.
This driver should work on any machine with the standard Byte interface
and a serial port Sega driver-- or you can patch the C code to fit your
own interface.

BTW, the two things are working together now-- VERY nice.  Hard to crash,
too.  Now to do the stereoscopic viewport software...

-Dave STampe

From MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Apr 24 01:38:22 1992
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Date: 24 Apr 92 17:33:04 GMT+1200
From: Jim McGrath <MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: DXF to OFF converter
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.920424173304.448@orpheus>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1b.

The major problem at this stage seems to be that 'walls' have two sides, so
for every plane two poly's must be generated. If a 'soccer ball' is wanted
that is only to be viewed from the outside, the converter must decide which
polys to destroy. This of course could be decided by placing a point in the
centre of the ball and selecting say 'outside only' from a menu, or
something???

What I mean is have 3 options,
                    both sides of a plane,
                    outside relative to something,
                 or inside      "     "    "

The first option is no sweat. The other options I need comments on.

Can anyone think of a good way of doing this? Perhaps interactively?

Suggestions Please.

--
Jim McGrath             mcgrath@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
--

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Apr 24 02:34:56 1992
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Date: Thu, 23 Apr 92 23:33:21 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9204240633.AA12449@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: Jim McGrath <MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>
       "DXF to OFF converter" (Apr 24,  5:33pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Jim McGrath <MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: DXF to OFF converter

You can build the list of vertices of the object and decide if
its fully connected; i.e. if it can be seen into.  This sounds
like a lot of work when a person is going to run the program
and promptly look at the output.  You might as well make
backface choice done by the user.

People are smarter than computers :-)

Lance Norskog

From gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi  Fri Apr 24 16:09:03 1992
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From: gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi (Tommi Manttari)
Message-Id: <9204242008.AA00720@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Subject: rend386-packet
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 23:08:45 GMT-2:00
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi. 

   I just got your devel2.zip and tried to compile 'demo2.c' but....
  ...but i found out that the makefile 'demo2.mak' was missing from
  devel2.zip. I just wanted you to know.

-Tommi Manttari-    


From gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi  Sat Apr 25 00:59:10 1992
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From: gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi (Tommi Manttari)
Message-Id: <9204250459.AA03954@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Subject: rend386 packet
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 92 7:59:06 GMT-2:00
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Forwarded message:
From gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi Sat Apr 25 00:52:31 1992
From: gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi (Tommi Manttari)
Message-Id: <9204242008.AA00720@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Subject: rend386-packet
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 23:08:45 GMT-2:00
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi. 

   I just got your devel2.zip and tried to compile 'demo2.c' but....
  ...but i found out that the makefile 'demo2.mak' was missing from
  devel2.zip. I just wanted you to know.

-Tommi Manttari-    



From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Apr 26 19:05:21 1992
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Date: Sat, 25 Apr 92 17:38:38 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204252138.AA23687@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee


Just finished up the stereoscopic vision support for REND386.
I'll describe it and the math behind it, and hopefully it'll
fit most systems.

SEGA AND POWERGLOVE DRIVER MODULE

The soft/hardware basis of this is a new interrupt driver that supports
Sega glasses and the PowerGlove.  All you have to do with this one
is "set it and forget it"-- it's fully self calibrating.  You can also
eliminate the Sega or Powerglove support.

Basically, the PowerGlove driver polls the glove (serial bit-banger) till
it gets a 0xA0 "packet ready" code, then receives an 8-bit packet.  The
polling is done about every 5.5 mS, via interrupt.  The rest of the
interface is much like the one we did in November, but much more
reliable and simplified.  You call glove_ready() till you get a 1
(packet ready) or 2 (packet and RX flags ready), then glove_read() to
get a copy of the data.  Data is denoised, and deglitching is switchable.
The Z axis is now denoised but rotate is not (hysterisis makes it unusable).

The PG driver is adaptable to most interfaces, but the present code is
configured for the printer port method. It adapts to your computer's speed,
but uses I/O space accesses rather than counting loops in its delay
timing loop, so is not sensitive to cache effects like the old one was.

The Sega driver does not rely on your VGA card having a vertical interrupt.
Instead, it uses a synchronized interrupt driver.  The setup routine finds
the length of a vertical scan time in timer clocks (1.19 MHz), then
sets up the timer to be 100 uS faster. If a PG is used, 2 or 3 interrupts
are done per frame so as to service the PG driver too.)  Every 5 frames,
the interrupts are resynchronized to the video by waiting for the retrace:
about 500 uS (long enough to assure that interrupt blockages will not
cause full-frame time stalls).  Seems to work: I tried it on 60 Hz and
72 Hz cards, and it's very hard to crash.  The Sega interrupt calls a
routine, so you can replace the default serial-port Sega circuit with
something else.

Total CPU overhead for this driver is something like 0.7% for the Sega
driver, and 4.5% for the Powerglove driver.  Not too bad. Even the PC
clock keeps time properly.

STEREOSCOPIC VIEW MODULE

Every time I think about doing stereo images I have to figure out "what to
draw, where, and how big?"  Well, no more-- I sat down and figured out all
the math and came up with a geometric model relating world model stuff
to real-world stuff.  Now all you need to do is fill in a few variables
and let a routine compute left and right eye views based on the "cyclopian"
basis view.

The math is based on simple "similar triangle" stuff, but here are the
results.

Data Required:

psd -> physical screen-to-eye distance in mm
psw -> width of screen (or view window) in mm
swp -> screen (or view window) width in pixels
pes -> physical eye seperation in mm (62 mm is the average)
pcd -> physical convergence distance in mm (usually same as psd)
wsr -> world scaling ratio (units per mm)

Formula:

zoom = 2 * psd / psw

--the z-plane (image plane) distance and sets overall magnification
and perspective in the image. Multiply by 65536 for the REND386 parameter.

x_fixup = (psd * pes * swp)/(2 * pcd * psw)

--used to displace the image on the screen to the side to correct the
convergence distance (displace x_fixup pixels to the left for the left eye,
to the right for the right eye view).  Had to update some of the REND386
view definition code to let it do this.  While I was at it, I added the
ability to flip the image horizontally or vertically, in case you use
mirrors in a HMD, or have to flip an LCD panel to fit.

world_iod = (pes * wsr) / 2

--used to compute left and right eye "camera positions".  To do this,
get the 3x3 camera translation matrix[ A B C ]
				     [ D E F ]
				     [ G H I ]
and modify the camera position by these values:
    xinc = world_iod * A
    yinc = world_iod * B
    zinc = world_iod * C
Add these to the camera position for the right eye, subtract for the
left eye views.  Again, REND386's VIEW structure was updated to make
the matrix available.  I also added two routines to allow you to set
a viewpoint from a matrix, or convert a viewpoint to a matrix.

world_conv_dist = pcd * wsr

--for an object to appear at the convergence point (should be the
monitor screen, or the focal distance if a HMD is used), it should
be this distance from the viewpoint.  If you do this, you can use wsr
to set the size of objects in the "real world"!  Not easy to explain
how this works, but basically it's changing your eye spacing while
moving you closer to the object, thus changing its size.  Confused?
Good!

HEAD MOUNTED DISPLAYS

All this applies for headmounted displays, but of course the screen
size and distance becomes hard to compute.  Putting a display close to
your eyes requires a lens to let you focus on it, but the lens also
changes the distance:size ratio measurably, largely due to its effect on
eye movement scaling.  Also, the displays are close to your eyes and
are offset by somewhat more than half your eye spacing.  So you've
got to add an offset in addition to the stereoscopic offset here.  This
will be strongly influenced by the lens system as well.  I assume you'd
use trial and error, making the offset adjustable (this is a good idea
anyway, as it will make the display more comfortable for different eye
spacings).

An interesting situation is when the HMD display is tilted instead of
parallel to your forehead.  Here (unless your lens system fixes it)
the image needs more magnification at one side.  To do this, pan the
view transform angle (using matrix multiplication AFTER having set up
the view and before rendering) and add an offset to the display (BEFORE
setting up the view).  Result: perfect compensation for a tilted display
(but not for lens distortion, unfortunately).

RESULTS

I haven't done a 3D glove object yet, but the driver works fine.  The 3D
and Sega stuff is working great, but I don't like the smearing effect or
the dark image they produce much.  I seem to notice some stretching in
depth, but everyone who's tried it says it's just me...
Speed is of course half that without stereo.  That gives about 7.5 fps
for the 500-poly bishban.plg demo in 256-color mode, and about 14 fps
on a 486/33.  A 100-poly test is about 15 fps on a 486/25 (the full glove
will be 65-85 polys).

The code for this should be out soon.  Have to figure out how to
package it without invalidating the last release...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________




From broehl  Sun Apr 26 19:16:09 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9204262316.AA15771@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Minor update to devel2.zip
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 92 19:16:08 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

There's a new version of devel2.zip on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386
directory.  It corrects some documentation errors, and now includes the file
demo2.mak which should give you some idea of how to compile everything.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From thinman@netcom.com  Sun Apr 26 19:42:43 1992
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Date: Sun, 26 Apr 92 15:15:36 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9204262215.AA06472@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: sound localization


>From alt.3d:
> ...
> 
>     For most purposes, the precise acoustics are indeed pretty moot.  However,
> it does help to mimic the pinna-tragus(sp?) delay characteristics of the ear,
> as this appears to be the primary contribution to perception of elevation.
> An excellent summary of important bio-physical mechanisms in localization of
> audio stimuli may be found in __Analog VLSI and Neural Systems__ by Carver
> Mead [Addison-Wesley, 1988].  (Yes, that's THE Carver Mead, who else?). I
> recommend the book on general principle, but particularly relevant is the
> section which describes the SeeHear project, a system which processes spatial
> visual information- features, or "cues"- into equivalent audio cues, designed
> for use by the blind (among other purposes).  A basic analysis of the geo-
> metry of the ear is given as introductory material in order to construct a
> reasonable model for generation of localized audio cues.
> 
> + You want a signal dead-ahead to arrive in sync at both mikes, but a signal
> + a listener, and figure out what each of the listener's ears will hear
> + assuming a single-frequency sinusoidal signal simultaneously emanating
> + with differing amplitudes from each speaker.
> 
>     With a little more detail (pinna-tragus delay and headshadow effect) you
> get enough additional informational cues to simulate all three dimensions.
> It isn't necessary to mimic these effects exactly; one of the more "popular"
> SeeHear configurations greatly exaggerates the scale of vertical cues, and
> corresponds to a tall, slender ear shape (dubbed the "Bambi" configuration).
> 
>     Christopher J. Hawley / esper           /   chawley@sundiver.esd.sgi.com
>     Silicon Graphics, Inc.   01L-945      PSD   phone:  415 / 335-1621  work
>     Mountain View, CA   94039-7311  USA   /             415 / 965-0754  home
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>        .... somewhere in the spectrum between Real Love and a free lunch.
> 



From gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi  Sun Apr 26 19:53:57 1992
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From: gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi (Tommi Manttari)
Message-Id: <9204242008.AA00720@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Subject: rend386-packet
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 23:08:45 GMT-2:00
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Sender: gruesome@phoenix.oulu.fi

Hi. 

   I just got your devel2.zip and tried to compile 'demo2.c' but....
  ...but i found out that the makefile 'demo2.mak' was missing from
  devel2.zip. I just wanted you to know.

-Tommi Manttari-    



From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Apr 26 21:36:52 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204270136.AA23832@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  sound localization

The SeeHear model is extremely simplified, since it's a detection 
rather than a production model.  You'll need more to get precise
localization when heard by humans, most certainly.  This model does
not take into account a large number of effects, but could be used
as a starting point.

-Dave Stampe

From lance@unix386.convergent.com  Wed Apr 29 17:55:57 1992
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Date: Wed, 29 Apr 92 10:50:03 PDT
From: Lance Norskog <lance@unix386.convergent.com>
Message-Id: <9204291750.AA20642@unix386.Convergent.COM>
Return-Path: <lance@unix386.Convergent.COM>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: modelling methods


This was last night; I didn't go.  But it sounds interesting anyway.
BTW, Glassner edited the first Graphics Gems book, which you need
on your shelf.

-------------

The Bay Area chapter of ACM/Siggraph - the Special Interest Group on Computer
Graphics and Interactive Techniques - announces its April meeting


                    TWO COOL NEW TECHNIQUES FOR MODELING


                              Andrew Glassner
                                Xerox PARC


                                  8:00 pm
                              Tuesday, Apr. 28
                               McBean Theatre
                             The Exploratorium
                             San Francisco, CA



As the field of rendering matures, modeling has begun to loom larger as
a limiting factor in making computer graphics imagery.  This talk will
discuss two new modeling techniques; one that amplifies the geometry of
a substrate shape, and another that generates new shapes under the
control of designed networks.  These techniques are both relatively
simple to implement, and provide some new options for creating complex
models.

The first method is motivated by observing that details are important.
One of the challenges a designer faces when creating rich, expressive,
and interesting models is the specification of large amounts of
appropriate surface detail. Automatic methods for generating detail are
known as shape amplification techniques.  This talk will show how some
simple concepts of geometric and topological transformations may be used
to automatically build detail that resonates with an underlying surface,
in order to create complex models from simpler structures.

Another way to create shapes is to create them interactively.  The
second technique discussed tonight for creating complex 3D models is
based on a network representation.  The technique is based on the
principles that guided audio synthesis: there are a small number of
carefully-designed modules, and a single type of wire that carries a
single data type.  This makes it easy to understand the action of the
network at a glance, and interactive design may proceed intuitively.


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Apr 29 18:51:47 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9204292251.AA10042@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee

As REND386 evolves, it is becoming apparant that it will be quite 
different in some ways from the design originally planned.  The 
main reason for this is time limitations and a better understanding
of hardware and processor constraints of the 386 PC and VGA card.

SPEED
First, drawing polys has not turned out to be the paramount speed
limiter, as originally thought.  Indeed, processor and cache-miss
penalty factors seem to be equally as important.  The real limit in
drawing is appearing to be the clearing of the screen-- hundreds of
polys can be drawn in the time it takes to clear the video buffer.
The layering of polys is not the concern it was thought to be, due
to the relativly sparse scenes typical of the VR applications and
the early elimination of backfacing polygons.

The speed of the code written so far is about 30%-50% slower than
initially calculated.  The reason seems to be cumulative cache miss
penalties, and some other processor penalties.  It is very hard to
locate or fix these problems in software.  There are some further 
speedups possible in the renderer code by switching from far to
near pointers at certain points, but the overall speedup from this
is less than 10%.  This change would make the code difficult to 
modify, so is probably not worth the effort.

DEPTH SORTING, VISIBILITY ERRORS AND WORLD DIVISION
The present version of REND386 uses simple depth sorting by farthest
polygon vertex to determine the order in which polys are drawn.  This
results in visibility errors on some non-convex objects.  We have 
recently been sent some .plg files which show serious visibility
errors, so can proceed to look for solutions.

The original plan was to implement a scanline renderer.  However, 
due to the slower-than-expected processor rates and better video 
speed, it is clear that the initial reasons for using this method
(apart from lack of visibility errors) are no longer valid.  The
current estimates are that scanline rendering would almost double the
rendering time.  (The C code for the scanline renderer is tested and
debugged, but would take about 2 weeks to integerize and code).

Instead, some simple ways of reducing visibility errors will be 
pursued.  This will not help with complex objects, but will result in
a usable, fast VR renderer.  The results will be similar to the 
SuperScape demo, without its movement limitations.

The first method is to keep objects together when drawn.  The method 
will allow object polys to be kept together or sorted into the world
poly list.  Objects and polys are sorted together, then objects are
expanded into polys and sorted locally.  The sorted list is then
rendered.  The point in an object used for the depth sort may be
shifted in order to reduce visibility errors if desired.

Secondly, the world may be "split" into areas by BSP-like planes.
These may be associated with a wall or object, so that all objects on
the far side are drawn, then the wall or object, then the objects
on the near side.  Optionally, objects on the far side may be ignored.
A tree structure of "splits" can be used to keep the number of polys
and objects to be drawn at any time quite small.  For example, rooms
can be designed with or without windows and doors, etc.  This is 
equivalent to object-based BSP trees without the need to split polys.

The REND386 world then consists of a "splits" tree, a number of
movable (segmented) figures, and a number of fixed or movable
objects.  If objects are moved, they must be checked and possibly 
relocated in the "splits" tree.  Since in most cases the glove figure
and possibly one or two objects are moving at once, this is cheap.

These modifications will produce better results than pure depth sorting, 
especially if objects are designed to eliminate visibility errors, such 
as by splitting complex objects into several objects.  Of course, this 
is not as good as if real depth sorting with overlap detection was used.
This last method is even slower than scanline rendering or BSP trees.

These new features will result in a REND386 that has almost the same
speed as the present version, but is usable for VR work.  It will not
be a complete general-purpose renderer because of the visibility errors.
These errors can only be reduced by careful world and object design,
or by the investment of more time on REND386 and reducing the drawing 
speed by half.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________




From ih3e@dogwood.cs.Virginia.EDU  Wed Apr 29 20:30:40 1992
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From: ih3e@dogwood.cs.Virginia.EDU
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe



Please unsubscribe me.

Thanks, Jan

From broehl  Thu Apr 30 16:15:27 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9204302015.AA13928@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Converters for REND386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 92 16:15:27 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

A set of conversion programs are now available on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the
pub/rend386/converters directory that will take other file formats and convert
them to .PLG for use with the rend386 demo.

Many thanks to those who have made contributions (notably "Zap" Andersson and
Gershon Elber).

I've heard of a couple of people tackling the DXF to PLG conversion; could
anyone who's working on this drop me some email and let me know how you're
progressing?  Thanks.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From thinman@netcom.com  Thu Apr 30 21:46:04 1992
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Date: Thu, 30 Apr 92 18:44:32 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9205010144.AA11160@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: S3 chip set

The S3 Corp. (Santa Clara, CA, USA, +1 408-xxx-xxxx) makes a 2D
graphics chip (set ?) that was specifically designed to build
fast, cheap Windows video cards.  As far as I understand that,
it draw horizontal and vertical lines very quickly, and may help
out with 2D bitmapped fonts as well.  It may even do diagonal lines!

S3-based VGA cards are turning up for a little more expensive
than straight VGA but cheaper than 8514.

DOS hardware companies tend to be a bunch of brainless morons, but
they may have done it right.

Anyway, if you call S3, they'll send a chip book free (as normal)
but they'll also send source code and a floppy, all free.

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Apr 30 22:27:53 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9205010227.AA16003@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: sega demo available


There should be available by tomorrow afternoon a demo with Sega 
support (RS232 port driver), and also "mirror" srereo (use a small
mirror to view).  It also allows you to fool around with 3 different
types of depth sorting, etc.

This is a "snapshot" of work in progress, so comments are welcome.
Keep sending plg files too.

-Dave Stampe

From gmt@reef.cis.ufl.edu  Fri May  1 02:20:57 1992
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From: "Gary McTaggart" <gmt@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
Message-Id: <9205010620.AA25310@reef.cis.ufl.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Chip companies and documentation. . .


Along the same lines as what Lance Norskog said about the S3 Corp., if
you express an interest to Texas Instruments in there chips, they'll
send you tons of information on them including demo code and compilers!!
I even got a copy of their 3D Graphics Library for the 34082 chip for
nothing.  (That is the manual, not the software.)  That book tends to
be very educational.

Gary McTaggart
gmt@cis.ufl.edu

From kksys!com2serv.c2s.mn.org!caa@cs.umn.edu  Fri May  1 18:20:34 1992
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From: caa@com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Message-Id: <9205012204.AA16225@com2serv.c2s.mn.org>
Subject: Compiling rend386 with djgpp
To: rend386@sunee (rend386 ML)
Date: Fri, 1 May 92 17:04:54 CDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL7]

Has rend386 been compiled with djgpp?  I would like to give it a try, but
there is no makefile for rend386.  If it has been compiled with djgpp,
was it any faster than borland c?  I would think that producing native
386 code for everything would be faster, but I'm not sure how much better
borland's optimizer is than GNU's.


BTW, I compiled demo2 with borland C++ 3.0 and it works but it hangs
at times that didn't happen with the precompiled version.  I'm gonna
try running it through Turbo Debugger when I get a chance.

-Charlie
-- 
/-Charles-Anderson-\   |       caa@c2s.mn.org || caa@midgard.mn.org 
\------------------/   | Com Squared Systems,          voice (612) 452-9522
The rose goes in front | 1285 Corporate Center Drive    fax  (612) 452-3607
big guy -Crash Davis   | Suite 170 | Eagan,  MN 55121  (I speak for myself)

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Mon May  4 19:39:56 1992
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Date:  5 May 92  0:33 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <21338.9205042333(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: SEGA glasses in UK?

RFC-822-HEADERS:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

==================
[apologies to glove-list and rend386 list members
 who will see this twice.]

To repeat my recent request: Does anyone
know of a UK source of SEGA LCD specs?

If not, what's the going rate in the USA
and is there a place I can get one mail-order
using a credit card?

Is there a way of accessing US "toll-free" 1-800
numbers from the UK?


thanks,

Chris


Chris Hand, Lecturer              | Internet mail: cph@leicp.ac.uk
Dept of Comp Sci, Leicester Poly, | Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
PO Box 143, LEICESTER, UK LE1 9BH |   Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50

From kksys!com2serv.c2s.mn.org!caa@cs.umn.edu  Wed May  6 21:11:46 1992
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From: caa@com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Message-Id: <9205041457.AA25844@com2serv.c2s.mn.org>
Subject: Re: Compiling rend386 with djgpp
To: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Date: Mon, 4 May 92 9:57:23 CDT
Cc: rend386@sunee (rend386 ML)
In-Reply-To: <9205020338.AA01654@netcom.netcom.com>; from "Lance Norskog" at May 1, 92 8:38 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL7]

> 
> You would have to translate all the 8086 assembler to 386 mode.
> It's fairly straightforward; there's just alot of it.
> 
> I run Unix/386 so of course I'm interested.  Also, for serious VR
> and 3D graphics work, you wind up needing lots of RAM.  Not to mention
> sound samples!  So, the ability to address several Megs is certainly
> interesting.
> 
> Lance
> 
I hadn't looked, but I was under the impression that the assembler that
was written was for a 386 hence the reason that the package required a
386 to run.

-Charlie
-- 
/-Charles-Anderson-\   |       caa@c2s.mn.org || caa@midgard.mn.org 
\------------------/   | Com Squared Systems,          voice (612) 452-9522
The rose goes in front | 1285 Corporate Center Drive    fax  (612) 452-3607
big guy -Crash Davis   | Suite 170 | Eagan,  MN 55121  (I speak for myself)

From HAINS@STETSON.BITNET  Mon May 11 22:47:53 1992
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From: HAINS%STETSON.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject: Help, all!!!
To: rend386@sunee
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X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu"

 Howdy, folks!
        Does anyone know where to find the PowerGlove mouse interface program?
I've heard legends of it existing but can't find it on any of the FTP sites.
Can anyone help me with this one?  All help greatly appreciated!
                Bryan
                HAINS@STETSON.BITNET


From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Tue May 12 17:09:16 1992
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Date: 12 May 92 22:02 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <3500.9205122102(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: SEGA glasses/UK: Got 'em!

RFC-822-HEADERS:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

==================
 
 I just got hold of some SEGA glasses and will
 build an i/f as soon as I get time, BUT:
 
 Has anyone else built the "ascii" circuit?  Does
 it work?  Is there a GIF or PostScript file 
 lying around that would be easier to work from?
 
 I'm sure others were asking the same question
 earlier in the year; was this resolved or did
 I miss it?
 
 Cheers!
 
 Chris
 

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer              | Internet mail: cph@leicp.ac.uk
Dept of Comp Sci, Leicester Poly, | Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
PO Box 143, LEICESTER, UK LE1 9BH |   Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50

From doug@neumann.une.oz.au  Tue May 12 19:56:50 1992
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From: doug@neumann.une.oz.au (Doug Colman)
Message-Id: <9205122356.AA25676@neumann.une.edu.au>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  SEGA glasses/UK: Got 'em!

PLEASE !
I want to un-subscribe from rend386 auto-mail !
How can I ?
-- DOUG.

From yjhun@gorai.kaist.ac.kr  Mon May 18 09:40:39 1992
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From: yjhun@gorai.kaist.ac.kr (Youn jihoon)
Message-Id: <9205181243.AA06374@gorai.kaist.ac.kr.noname>
Subject: Question about Collision Detection
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 22:43:34 KDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

	 I have read the following paper : 

	"Comutational Compexity vs. Simulated Environments",
						A.Pentland,ACM CG,pp185-192,1990.

	At page 186 of above paper, there is a paragraph
as followings:

	o Collision Detection. Physical objects do not in-
	terpenetrate, and so we must calculate collisions be-
	tween objects at each time step. For coarse colli-
	sion detection it is possible to trade storage com-
	plexity against calculation complexity. For instance:
	a typical octree scheme allows collision detection in
	O(log m) operations and O(m^2) storage locations, 
	where 1/m is the spatial resolution of the collision
	detection. However most programmers have pre-
	ferred to use bounding boxes rather than octrees,
	because although the bounding box comparison re-
	quires somewhat more calculation it it only O(m) in
	storage.

	I can not inference why it is possible to get O(log m)
and O(m^2) when using octree scheme. I think that at least
the storage complexity is about O(m^3) or a few low. Morever
is it possible to get somewhat more calculation than O(log m)
and only O(m) storage complexity by using bounding box?

	Please inform me of something to make me to understand
the above paragraph.


						From Youn Ji-Hoon.


From thinman@netcom.com  Mon May 18 12:35:36 1992
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	id AA16798; Mon, 18 May 92 09:34:43 PDT
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 09:34:43 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
Message-Id: <9205181634.AA16798@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
Subject: TECH: Sci Am 5-92 and HMD's

The Scientific American of May 1992 contains two back-to-back
articles which are important reading for any HMD designer.

The first article is a "Science In Pictures (TM)" sort of
interactive science demonstration of interesting blind spot
effects.  Example: a wheel has spokes between inner & outer
circles.  If the inner circle is in your blind spot, you
"fill in" the spokes to the center of the missing circle.

The second article details a new kind of mirror made via
semiconductor etching techniques.  You custom-design a
field of diffraction gratings instead of shaping a smooth
curved shiny surface.  Apparently it doesn't have the
restrictions that mirror optics has, and it can do a
lot of things that you can't with mirrors.  

The first is important for helping to figure new tricks
that you can get away with; or if only to remind you that
visual perception is very complex.  The second is important
if you're designing HMD's with monitors hanging off the side
and reflected via mirrors in front of the eye.  It's quite
possible that you could composite the images seen by each eye
from an invariant background from one monitor and per-eye
views from another monitor...


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon May 18 13:54:10 1992
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Date: Mon, 18 May 92 13:54:09 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9205181754.AA12984@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  TECH: Sci Am 5-92 and HMD's

> From thinman@netcom.com Mon May 18 12:40:21 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Lance Norskog)
> To: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
> Subject: TECH: Sci Am 5-92 and HMD's
> 
> The Scientific American of May 1992 contains two back-to-back
> articles which are important reading for any HMD designer.
> 
> The first article is a "Science In Pictures (TM)" sort of
> interactive science demonstration of interesting blind spot
> effects.  Example: a wheel has spokes between inner & outer
> circles.  If the inner circle is in your blind spot, you
> "fill in" the spokes to the center of the missing circle.
> 
> The second article details a new kind of mirror made via
> semiconductor etching techniques.  You custom-design a
> field of diffraction gratings instead of shaping a smooth
> curved shiny surface.  Apparently it doesn't have the
> restrictions that mirror optics has, and it can do a
> lot of things that you can't with mirrors.  
> 
> The first is important for helping to figure new tricks
> that you can get away with; or if only to remind you that
> visual perception is very complex.  The second is important
> if you're designing HMD's with monitors hanging off the side
> and reflected via mirrors in front of the eye.  It's quite
> possible that you could composite the images seen by each eye
> from an invariant background from one monitor and per-eye
> views from another monitor...
> 
> 

Actually the "blind spot" thing isn't at all general.  It develops 
over time in areas of the visual field with no input.  For example, I developed a small blind spot in one eye a couple of years ago.  For about 6 months, it 
was just visible when it overlapped the edge between 2 areas of different
color, as a gray spot.  This is "stablized retinal image", and works in
about 3 to 10 seconds.  The pattern fill-in took almost a full year to
develop, but now can duplicate quite complex patterns, including grids.
Point is, these effects only happen for retinally stablized images, so
you'd need an eye-tracking display to use them for VR.

-Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon May 18 23:57:27 1992
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Date: Mon, 18 May 92 23:57:25 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9205190357.AA11922@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee

Subject: REND386 and the PowerGlove

Just finished connecting the PowerGlove to REND386.  It took this long to
get it finished, as some extensions to the .fig file formats had to be
developed to eliminate visibility errors with the glove object.  After 
careful redesign, there are few visiblilty errors.

Using the interrupt-driven system, there are few glitches in glove
position.  Using the Sega glasses as weel, there are more glitches
because of the effects of the interrupt timing on the glove CPU.  Too
bad that AGE never thought of having the glove use the data line to
signal that data is ready, as this would fix most of the problems.

Anyhow, the systems seems to work well.  With a 486/50, the renderer
is usually waiting on the glove data.  With a 486/25, the glove and
renderer are nearly synchronized.  Delay between glove movement and
the motion of the glove on the screen seems quite low and not really 
objectionable.  Of course, part of this is the fairly low resolution of 
the glove, especially in rotation and depth.

Rotation is quite noisy.  I've tried a number of noise reduction methods,
but none completely eliminate the noise.  I've settled on a method that
holds the last rotation until the glove rotate data has been stable for
at least 3 samples.  This adds delay, but the 30 degree rotation resolution
causes more problems than even a large delay.

Interestingly, the finger data seems quite noisy for some hand positions.
If you make a fist, the ring-finger tends to twitch between the 2 and 3
positions.  The thumb also has problems with calibration.  Of course this
could be just my glove, but I'm not impressed with the calibration of
the glove at all.  If you make a fist and extend your index finger, the
calibration causes the other fingers to drift open over several motions.
Not great for static gestures.

I think the best way to use the PG will be to connect it directly to the
rendering software, giving high-speed interactive ability for positioning.
Any software that uses glove data for control must use delays to filter
out the last few glitches and to confirm gestures.  Gestures must not
rely on positions of all fingers: single-finger-bent gestures are very
reliable, but multiple-bent-finger gestures will cause problems.  For
example, a "fist" gesture should ignore the ring finger position as it
is noisy in this position.

Suggestions:  open hand is "neutral", index finger pointing including
thumb up and down, "thumbs up" and "thumbs down", "come hither" (motion)
and a few others seem most reliable.  Single bent figers are also pretty
good.  The "fist" is pretty difficult to get unless you ignore the ring
finger.  "Pinching" with the thumb and index finger takes practice, unless
you slip your fingers quite far out of the glove.  This gives the best
control, but results in sore knuckles after 10 minutes or so.

The glove stuff should be available in the next release, which should
hopefully be sometime this week or next.  It looks pretty nice so far,
but as all these levels of code are added, REND386 is beginning to get
a bit unwieldy to support.  Of course, we try to keep the programmer's
interface simple, but that isn't always possible.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________


From MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz  Tue May 19 00:18:27 1992
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Date: 19 May 92 16:13:43 GMT+1200
From: Jim McGrath <MCGRATH@elec.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Egg, face
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.920519161343.416@orpheus>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1b.

I was trying to write a DXF to PLG converter....

I now have an almost working converter for DesignCAD 3D to PLG. (It tends to
die on some less well behaved solids.)

The plan was to then convert some files to DXF and by examination work out how
to convert them to PLG. Well, I'm baffled. Also, I don't actually have access
to ACAD, and it occurs that perhaps the output from the DC3 to DXF converter
might be a stripped version of what would be output by the ACAD
itself anyway.

Sorry to have kept you in suspense for nowt...

--
Jim McGrath              (mcgrath@elec.canterbury.ac.nz) 
      50 million / 3.5 million is about 15 each
                (It used to be 20)
                

From geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri May 22 00:04:24 1992
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Date: Fri, 22 May 92 15:43:03 NZS
From: geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Geoff Thomas)
Subject: Dave Stampe's convolvotron-ish board...
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <9205220343.AA16250@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


Earlier in the year, Dave informed the rend386 bunch, and the s.v-w
followers about his version of the convolvotron. After all the flames
etc. had burnt away, I was at a bit of a loss as to whether to pursue
this board and build one for myself.

Dave - have you gone ahead and built the board? How well does it work?
How simple is it to build? What's involved in it? Could you pop a
reasonably detailed description on the rend386 list for us not-too-
electronically-wizzy blokes to have a look at? Or maybe in an ftp-able
file or something?

Thanks very much,


Geoff Thomas	geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri May 22 09:58:51 1992
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Date: Fri, 22 May 92 09:57:49 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9205221357.AA04779@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Dave Stampe's convolvotron-ish board...

> From geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Fri May 22 00:06:05 1992
> From: geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Geoff Thomas)
> Subject: Dave Stampe's convolvotron-ish board...
> To: rend386@sunee
> X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> 
> 
> Earlier in the year, Dave informed the rend386 bunch, and the s.v-w
> followers about his version of the convolvotron. After all the flames
> etc. had burnt away, I was at a bit of a loss as to whether to pursue
> this board and build one for myself.
> 
> Dave - have you gone ahead and built the board? How well does it work?
> How simple is it to build? What's involved in it? Could you pop a
> reasonably detailed description on the rend386 list for us not-too-
> electronically-wizzy blokes to have a look at? Or maybe in an ftp-able
> file or something?
> 
> Thanks very much,
> 
> 
> Geoff Thomas	geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz
> 

Ooohh that flame thread was fun, wasn't it?  I haven't built the device I
discussed, but I did refine the design quite a bit.  Basically, it would
now consist of:

- Two delay lines, one fixed, one variable to set interaural delay.
- An attenuator for each ear
- A 2-delay line reverb unit with variable attenuator and a different output
  for each ear (to produce incoherent reverberatory sound)
- A 7-band graphic equalizer chip (with the bands all in the range from
  1.5 to 15 KHz) for each ear.  This eliminates the need for the pinna
  delay line as well.

That project is on the backburner, as I get my HMD and head tracker ready
for demonstration.  But I'm still looking for chips and parts for it.  
Maybe in 6 months or so I'll be ready to finish it up.

In the meantime, a stereo super-Soundblaster board is available now so
in theory you can have stereo or better (say, 20 synthesized positions
for each sound, stored in extended memory till needed) as a stopgap
measure.  Or try quadrophonic headphones (you can even convert a standard
Soundblaster to stereo or quad by adding controllable attenuators to the
output, one for each headphone driver).

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Sun May 24 19:42:52 1992
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Date: 25 May 92  0:38 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: glove-list@karazm.math.uh.edu
Cc: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net
Message-Id: <8482.9205242338(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: SEGA glasses interface circuit


I just built the SEGA glasses interface that uses the RS-232 port,
as posted to usenet by frank@cavebbs.gen.nz sometime last September.

Using the version of the rend386 demo that supports the SEGA specs
(segademo.zip) seems to work, but there's a problem with the
glasses not being opaque at the right times.

The graphics for the left eye are fine: if I close my right eye I
can't see the letter "R" at the top of the screen.  If I close
my *left* eye, however, I can see the "R" clearly as well as
the letter "L" flickering on and off.

Has anyone else has this problem?  Presumably it's something
to do with the pulses that are being sent to the glove not
being exactly out of phase?   Can anyone explain what the
connections to the glasses' jack are?

I got best results by turning the contrast down on the monitor
(monochrome VGA) and switching the lights off in my study.
Makes using the keyboard a little difficult though... ;-)

Any comments/ideas/hints appreciated.

Cheers!

Chris

Chris Hand, Lecturer              | Internet mail: cph@leicp.ac.uk
Dept of Comp Sci, Leicester Poly, | Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
PO Box 143, LEICESTER, UK LE1 9BH |   Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon May 25 00:38:35 1992
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Date: Mon, 25 May 92 00:32:23 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9205250432.AA02846@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, glove-list@karazm.math.uh.edu
Subject: Re:  SEGA glasses interface circuit
Cc: rend386@sunee, sci-virtual-worlds@uunet.uu.net

One reason for switching problems could be that you can see the letter thru
one of the edges of the Sega glasses' windows.  The greatest opaqueness is at the center of the windows-- there is almost none at the sides.  Also, check to
see if any double images are seen.  Expand a view until the figure intersects
the top and bottom of the screen.  If there is a narrow band of double image
at the top or bottom of the screen, the glasses driver interrupt is not loacking properly.

-Dave Stampe

From dmag%mustard.engin.umich.edu@srvr2.engin.umich.edu  Wed May 27 15:26:35 1992
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Date: Wed, 27 May 92 15:26:08 -0400
From: Daniel Demaggio  <dmag@engin.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <590213fc5.0038d94@mustard.engin.umich.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: rend386 Q, new guy on the list

   Hi!  I'm an Electrical Engineer here at the University of Michigan, and
this summer I'm building a VR system with a friend.  We have a Motorolla
EVBU and PowerGlove, but I eventually want to scrap the power glove in
favor of something better. We have yet to hook them up, though..  More
details later.
   My main question is this: Is there a 3d object location routine?  One
that would take an X,Y,Z co-ord and return what poly/vert/object it is
near or inside.  It would be similar to the one that takes a 2d point and
returns the polygon you are pointing at.  Am I just missing it, or what?

------------------------------\
Dan DeMaggio, UM EE, AA, MI   | "I don't believe in Truth,
dmag@caen.engin.umich.edu     |  I don't believe in Justice,
------------------------------/  But I BELIEVE in the American Way." -Me

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jun  1 10:10:23 1992
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Date: Sat, 30 May 92 15:06:35 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9205301906.AA19207@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: REND386 and BC 3.0


Well, I've been working with BC++ 3.0 and REND386.  I've had no problems 
linking up the devel2.zip at all, so those who have been experiencing
problems, try adding all the given C files into your project list as
well as the libraries.

Now, here's a wierd one:  REND386 will not function after the BC 3.0
IDE has run, unless you hard-reset the machine or use TD as well!  The
reason was finally traced to the IDE's remapping of the FS and GS
registers to flat memory mode.  Since the REND386 integer core also
uses these, and the IDE doesn't bother to clean up after itself, it
gets confused.  I had to rewrite the integer core so it didn't use 
these registers-- hopefully the speed reduction will be small.

Anyway, it just makes you wonder why Borland stuff gets flakey as the
version number increases.  

Other news: hopefully the next release will be out early next week.
I just finished upgrading the blitter libraries so they support
n-sided convex polys directly, which added another 10% to the overall
speed.  The 256-color color specifier (see the color256.c file for
this) now works for 16-color blits as well.  But the 16-color blitter
is now only 25%-30% faster than the 256 color... Is it worth continuing
to support, seeing the cost for 486/50's is plummeting?  I mean, spinning
the 512-poly demo at 26 fps...

Let me know if there's more trouble with linking, etc.

- Dave Stampe


From mandes@rpi.edu  Tue Jun  2 14:08:40 1992
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From: Shai Israel Mandel <mandes@rpi.edu>
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe




Please unsubscribe me.

Thanks, Shai


From afanh@robots.gsfc.nasa.gov  Wed Jun  3 09:52:43 1992
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To: rend386@sunee
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Subject: unsubscribe me

PLease unsubscribe me.  Thanks.

From grebyn!bittware@uunet.UU.NET  Wed Jun  3 21:37:13 1992
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From: bittware@grebyn.com (Bittware)
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Unsubscribe me, please.

Please unsubscribe me from the mailing list.  Thanks.
Jim, bittware@grebyn.com

From mfleig@silver.ucs.indiana.edu  Thu Jun  4 11:18:59 1992
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From: "Mark W. Fleig" <mfleig@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Unsubscribe as well.
Cc: mfleig@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Please unsubscribe me from the list.

Thanks,
-mark

From scheeni@cadev6.intel.com  Thu Jun  4 11:50:40 1992
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From: scheeni@cadev6.intel.com (Santosh Cheeniyil ~)
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Subject: Unsubscribe


Please unsubscribe from the mailing list.

Thank you.

--santhosh

From whighajs@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk  Fri Jun  5 03:56:10 1992
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Subject: Unsubscribe


Please unsubscribe me from the list.

Thanks,
-john

From peter@moose.cs.columbia.edu  Sat Jun  6 01:51:50 1992
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From: peter@moose.cs.columbia.edu (Peter Wu)
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me too.  Thanks.

Note: my address is peter@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu not what it says in
the headers.

PQ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro Quien?		peter@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu		Peter K. Wu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sun Jun  7 14:33:38 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9206071835.AA07454@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee



                   ** Issue 3 of PCVR is ready to mail **



PCVR is a Virtual Reality source for the IBM PC.  The third issue
contains:


            * Interfacing the Sega glasses to the PC

            * Building a Head-Mounted Display - The first in a
                series on building a HMD

            * A 3D pointing package for Rend386 and the Powerglove

            * A Plg/Fig Virtual Hand - Manipulate a Rend386 hand
                using the Powerglove

            * Graphics - Translations and Scaling

            * Games - Review of Wolfenstein and Underworld



Availability:
The first and second trial issues are still available for:

                        $3.00 domestic
                        $5.00 overseas

Subscriptions:
To obtain the third issue and further issues, a subscription is necessary.  The
rates are:

                        $26.00 domestic
                        $38.00 overseas


Our New Address:        PCVR
                        c/o Joseph D. Gradecki
                        1706 Sherman Hills #A
                        Laramie, Wyoming  82070

Email:                  gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu

From broehl  Wed Jun 10 15:16:13 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9206101916.AA16796@sunee.waterloo.edu>
Subject: New Release of Rend386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 15:16:12 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


The latest version of the rend386 package is now available for ftp.

It's on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386 directory.  Start by getting
demo3.zip; this contains a demo of the package and shows off some of its
new features.

If you wish to do development using the package, get the devel3.zip file
as well.

The current IP address for sunee.uwaterloo.ca is 129.97.128.196; however,
it will be changing soon (probably to 129.97.50.50).  If you're at a site
that has a working nameserver, this shouldn't affect you at all.

If you don't have access to ftp, you can use the ftpmail service; just send
a mail message with the word help in the body (not the subject line!) to
ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com, and you'll receive mail back telling you how to use
the service.  (If you have problems using ftpmail, mention them in an
appropriate newsgroup -- not to this list!).

Remember to transfer .zip files in binary mode, both when ftp'ing and when
downloading to your local 386 system.  This is by far the most common mistake
people run into when getting the package.

As before, neither Dave nor I have time to service requests for floppy disks
in the mail, or uuencoded files sent via email, or what have you.  We'd much
rather be working on the software.

New features in this release:

  - Support for sterescopic viewing
  - Support for Sega LCD glasses and Nintendo PowerGlove
  - Fixed bug that caused crashes when number of polys grew too large
  - Comments now allowed in .PLG files
  - Improved control over depth-sorting
  - Polygon depth now passed to user_render_poly() and user_poly_color()
    (for distance-based drawing decisions and "dimly-lit rooms")
  - Segments can now be assigned names and numbers
  - Mapping of colors while loading a PLG file
  - Mapping of colors of segments in a FIG file
  - Joint limits
  - more efficient updating of segmented figures

Note that some of the incompatabilities with different C compilers have
been fixed, but not all.  I'm developing using Turbo C++ version 1.00,
Dave is using a recent version of Borland C.

If you have any questions/problems/etc, please direct them to Dave
(dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca) or Bernie (broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca)
and we'll try to help.  Please don't post things directly to the
list unless you're sure they'll be of general interest; we're trying
to keep mailing list traffic as light as possible.

The next release probably won't be for a while (Dave's busy working on
his head-mounted display and tracking systems, Bernie's looking at protocols
for shared, multi-user virtual environments).  There may be "maintenance"
releases if any serious bugs are found.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.waterloo.edu OR broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From nelson@asylum.sf.ca.us  Wed Jun 24 23:29:34 1992
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 23:29:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: nelson@asylum.sf.ca.us (Russ Nelson)
Message-Id: <9206250329.AA12759@asylum.sf.ca.us>
To: rend386@SUNEE
Subject: canonical place

Path: asylum!rpi!uwm.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!psinntp!eye!erich
From: erich@eye.com (Eric Haines)
Newsgroups: alt.3d
Subject: Re: 3D model archive sites?
Message-ID: <1992Jun24.095102.28589@eye.com>
Date: 24 Jun 92 13:51:01 GMT
References: <19462@ravel.udel.edu> <DRAHNIER.92Jun23080904@bigfoot.first.gmd.de> <1sC-a__@engin.umich.edu>
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY
Lines: 27

In article <1sC-a__@engin.umich.edu> chymes@uri.csmil.umich.edu (Charles Hymes) writes:
>
>------------------------
>
>The best site is probably 
>
>
>cs.uoregon.edu (128.223.4.13)
>
>where worley@updike.sri.com (Steve Worley) has "...assembled a set
>of over 150 3D objects in a binary format called TDDD in the directory
>/incoming/TDDDobjs.  These objects range from human figures to
>airplanes, from semi-trucks to lamposts. These objects are all freely
>distributable, and most have READMEs that describe them. There are
>over six megabytes of these binary objects."

I just got a note from Steve Worley:

...my email address for contact will be worley@cup.portal.com (changed from my
old one, since I'm leaving my current company to do computer graphics full
time.)  Also, the library's official source (cs.uoregon.edu) has shut down, so
now wuarchive.wustl.edu hosts the models (and just about everything else!
It's great to have a central library!)

wuarchive.wustl.edu [128.252.135.4]:  /graphics/graphics/objects/TDDD

Eric

From nelson@asylum.sf.ca.us  Wed Jun 24 23:28:40 1992
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From: nelson@asylum.sf.ca.us (Russ Nelson)
Message-Id: <9206250328.AA12746@asylum.sf.ca.us>
To: rend386@SUNEE

There are supposedly a bunch of 3D objects on samba.acs.unc.edu in pub/wuarchive/systems/amiga/video/3d, although I haven't looked myself...

From yjhun@gorai.kaist.ac.kr  Tue Jun 30 06:22:14 1992
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From: yjhun@gorai.kaist.ac.kr (Youn jihoon)
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Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 19:02:47 KDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I want to be on this mailling list.


From m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au  Tue Jun 30 13:18:10 1992
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From: m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au (michelangelo rubini)
Message-Id: <9206301719.AA13642@ermintrude.teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: goggles

I want to know if there are sensors like gyro's , that can detect how your head
spins .. anyone with ideas, or know of such sensors ..? 
cheers miker

From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au  Tue Jun 30 22:08:31 1992
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 12:07:58 +1000
From: spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au (McEWAN Shane)
Message-Id: <9207010207.AA13978@atmos.dar.csiro.au>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386 Users Guide.

Has a users guide to rend386 been written?
The supplied documentation doesn't really tell you _HOW_ to incorporate the
rend386 libraries into your own application.
(i.e. which routines do you call to define and rotate a cube in 3D or some such)
And, I must be honest, the demo program is probably too complicated to learn
how to use each function.

Instead of having one demo that does everything, a number of demos that give an
example of what each routine can do would possibly be more appropriate for
someone just beginning to get into 3D graphics programming.

OK, I must admit, I am relatively new to C programming......but I've written a
number of applications for Silicon Graphics machines with no trouble at all.

So, are these just the ramblings of an old BASIC programmer trying to come
to terms with C? Or, have I got a valid argument? Does anyone have some nice
simple code they would like to share?

Oh well, if anything, this might see some action on this list. *smirk*
  
  Shane McEwan     CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research    spm@dar.csiro.au
================================================================================
           "We have to believe in free will. We've got no choice."
                          - Isaac Bashevis Singer
================================================================================
Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195  Phone: +61 3 586 7503  Fax: +61 3 586 7600


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Jul  1 00:04:59 1992
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 00:04:54 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207010404.AA11141@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au
Subject: Re:  Rend386 Users Guide.

I agree that short demos would be a good idea.  Only problem is, neither
I nor Bernie has time to write them right now!  Is there anyone out there
who wants to volenteer?

- Dave Stampe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Jul  1 00:22:18 1992
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Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 22:23:27 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207010423.AA04465@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee, spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au
Subject: Re:  Rend386 Users Guide.

The next issue of PCVR will be dedicated to Rend386.  We will go indepth 
into using Rend386 for objects, figures, the sega/powerglove interface, etc.
The previous issue of PCVR ( third ) included a virtual hand program that
uses the Powerglove.  This program is a skeleton for using Rend386 for
your own programs.

joe

From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Jul  1 01:34:30 1992
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	id AA06853; Tue, 30 Jun 92 22:33:22 PDT
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 22:33:22 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207010533.AA06853@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au (McEWAN Shane)
       "Rend386 Users Guide." (Jul  1, 12:07pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au (McEWAN Shane), rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Rend386 Users Guide.

On Jul 1, 12:07pm, McEWAN Shane wrote:  

> OK, I must admit, I am relatively new to C programming......but I've
> written a number of applications for Silicon Graphics machines with no
> trouble at all.

> So, are these just the ramblings of an old BASIC programmer trying to
> come to terms with C? Or, have I got a valid argument? Does anyone have
> some nice simple code they would like to share?

No, you're just coming from a graphics library which is unusually
well-designed from a programmer's POV, to one that's a first attempt.

Of course, with a good example to learn from, it's a little silly
to write your own bad library interface...


Seriously guys, GL is very very nice to code in.

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Jul  1 09:35:11 1992
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	id <AA07474>; Wed, 1 Jul 92 09:35:00 -0400
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 09:35:00 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207011335.AA07474@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, rend386@sunee, spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au
Subject: Re:  Rend386 Users Guide.

I'd be interested in seeing an advance copy and perhaps commenting on it.
Since the next release of REND386 is going to have some really neat
additions, I might be able to add something about them.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Jul  1 09:42:11 1992
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 09:42:10 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207011342.AA07742@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Rend386 Users Guide.

> From thinman@netcom.com Wed Jul  1 01:37:52 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
> To: spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au (McEWAN Shane), rend386@sunee
> Subject: Re: Rend386 Users Guide.
> 
> On Jul 1, 12:07pm, McEWAN Shane wrote:  
> 
> > OK, I must admit, I am relatively new to C programming......but I've
> > written a number of applications for Silicon Graphics machines with no
> > trouble at all.
> 
> > So, are these just the ramblings of an old BASIC programmer trying to
> > come to terms with C? Or, have I got a valid argument? Does anyone have
> > some nice simple code they would like to share?
> 
> No, you're just coming from a graphics library which is unusually
> well-designed from a programmer's POV, to one that's a first attempt.
> 
> Of course, with a good example to learn from, it's a little silly
> to write your own bad library interface...
> 
> 
> Seriously guys, GL is very very nice to code in.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> 

Which areas of REND386 do you feel are the ones that need most improvement?
Since the world/object philosophy is somewhat different than GL, they'll
never be the same.  Some of the viewport stuf "just happened" as well, but
I'm sure interfaces can be written to get pseudo-GL paradigms into the
system.  With further additions, the system will just get further from GL:
for example, what would GL make of the "splits" we are adding that make walls 
opaque?   Anyway, comment away.

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Jul  1 13:15:50 1992
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	id AA18348; Wed, 1 Jul 92 10:14:44 PDT
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 10:14:44 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207011714.AA18348@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: GL & Rend386

It's not so much compatibility with GL, but that GL
is very pleasant to code with in C.

This is because you build tree-shaped data/action structures
in GL, and it's natural to do this with the block-structured
coding structure in C.  I.e. instead of saying:
	x = make an A
	y = make a B
	z = make a C
	x.left = y
	x.right = z
	y.point = (1,2);
	z.point = (3,4);
you say:
	make an A
	{
		left(make a B)
		point(1,2)
		right(make a C)
		point(3,4)
	}
	close the current A

The context of what A and B and C and how they go together
is matched by the C coding structure, which you are used
to tracking because of your practice in coding.  
You don't have to declare x,y,&z and do the variable accesses.
GL tracks these variables for you on a hidden stack,
and the stack pushes/pops are obvious from the code flow.

We hard-core C coders have certain thought patterns and
habits that we're very good at, and the GL style exploits these.

Lance Norskog

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Mon Jul  6 23:52:40 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207070352.AA01563@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee

              PCVR now accepts VISA and MasterCard!!



It's now easy to obtain a subscription to PCVR.  Save those additional
Money Order charges and currency exchange surtaxes.

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From rcaldwel@ponder.csci.unt.edu  Tue Jul  7 00:26:20 1992
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From: rcaldwel@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Roger Caldwell)
Message-Id: <9207070427.AA18072@ponder>
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 92 23:27:11 CDT
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Please subcribe me to the rend386 list.

rcaldwel@ponder.csci.unt.edu


From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Jul 10 01:54:52 1992
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 22:07:19 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207100507.AA10435@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: AAAIIIIII!!!!

Well, the devel3.zip release doesn't work with Turbo C 1.0.  Or 1.5.
I scored them both for cheap last night.

Turbo C 1.0 doesn't have 'tlib' so you can't make archives at all.
1.5 doesn't have some sort of floating point emulation library
that supplies 'F_LDIV' and several others of its ilk.  These were
needed by rend386.lib and user.lib.  I recompiled user.lib with
1.5 and suddenly it didn't need 'F_LDIV' or it's friends.  

Are you targeting machines with no FPU for this?  Would you please
consider some other alternative compile switch that doesn't
automatically generate references to these floating point 
libraries?  Could you please release a rend386.lib compiled with
turbo C 1.0?  Does Yeltsin take Smart Drugs?

Also, in TC 1.0/1.5 signal() is ssignal().  You need to change
this in segasrc\sgsppt.c.

Looks like a heck of a package.

Thanks for all the work,

Lance Norskog



From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Jul 10 09:32:16 1992
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 09:32:10 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207101332.AA15380@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  AAAIIIIII!!!!

You have to recompile some of the libraries to use TC 1.0 and BC 3.0.
The source for these is SUPPOSED to be in the devel.zip files: if
not, let Bernie Roehl (broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca) know.

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Jul 10 14:10:45 1992
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207101809.AA00293@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: my problems

Where is the source for 3DSUPP?  It's in the rend386.lib file.
I didn't spot the sources anywhere in devel3.zip; I thought you
folks were holding them back.

Lance Norskog

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Jul 10 17:44:07 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207102144.AA25882@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  my problems

> From thinman@netcom.com Fri Jul 10 14:16:00 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: my problems
> 
> Where is the source for 3DSUPP?  It's in the rend386.lib file.
> I didn't spot the sources anywhere in devel3.zip; I thought you
> folks were holding them back.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> 
The source SHOULD have been in devel3.zip.  If it isn't then Bernie forgot
to put it in there.  But I'm not sure about TC 1.0 anyway: the next release
should be verified to compile on all Borland C compilers.  If someone
was to volenteer, we might get it going on Microsoft, but we'd just be 
consultants-- you'd have to do the code changes.

-Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 11 00:10:01 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207110409.AA16187@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: mirror stereo


Is anyone usingthe mirror stereo? Or is just one of those "try it, then
forget it" gimmicks?  If not, we'll just archive the code as an example,
and remove it from the distribution.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 11 00:08:20 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207110408.AA16081@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: How to destroy Sega glasses


Leave them plugged in for 3 weeks with one lens having DC applied to it.
It gets sort of coagulated, milky and smeared out and NEVER recovers.
Lucky I have spares...  and I'm glad I put the auto switchoff in the
Sega driver code.

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Sat Jul 11 16:40:01 1992
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Date: 11 Jul 92 21:37 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9207110408.AA16081(a)watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9012.9207112037(a)helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: How to destroy Sega glasses

RFC-822-HEADERS:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

==================
Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng said:
> Leave them plugged in for 3 weeks with one lens having DC applied to it.
> It gets sort of coagulated, milky and smeared out and NEVER recovers.
> Lucky I have spares...  and I'm glad I put the auto switchoff in the
> Sega driver code.

Well done that man!

On a related topic, I was talking to a colleague whose research involves
various LCD stuff and he said the SEGA glasses can't be switched at a rate
higher than about 50Hz because of limitations of the liquid crystal.  He
said that if you want *fast* switching you have to use a different liquid
crystal (ferro-electric or chromium dioxide or something... :-).

Anyone have any evidence or arguments to the contrary?

Also, has anyone built the alternative SEGA specs interface that
can control the shutters individually (uses a 555 timer) ...?

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@leicp.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            >> We *used* to be Leicester Polytechnic! <<

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 11 21:42:04 1992
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 92 21:41:59 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207120141.AA18863@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: How to destroy Sega glasses

You can switch them at any rrate you please, but the turn on/off time is 
about 500 uS, so you'd have to leave blank areas at the top and bottom of the 
screen if you were to use 120 Hz, for example.  My VGA card does 72 Hz, and
they work just fine.  The cells in the Sega are pretty decent for speed:
their main problem is low light transmission (the Sega glasses are NOT
made of dark plastic: they're just designed to hide the darkness of the
cells).  The Stereographics CrystalEyes are very clear, but also bleed
through a bit more, and cost far more.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 11 22:11:40 1992
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 92 22:11:39 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207120211.AA20662@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: glove stuff


How much trouble have you all been having with the powergloves in terms
of position glitching and finger-position drift?  I've never managed
to make mine entirely glitch-free, and am wondering if it's just my
setup or if this is general.  THis will influence the way selection
etc. with the glove is done.

I've just finished some of the work on the next release, and it's
finally coming together.  We now have world files (all sorts of
definitions, setup, etc) and splits-- static BSP trees.  These get 
rid of the worst visibility errors: just add one in the world file 
for each major wall or floor.  When objects are moved, they are 
re-propagated in the split tree (not very expensive) and are NOT
broken up.  Bernie's also working (with the networked VR group)
on the idea of using the splits to define areas, wall bounds, etc.

You can now have multiple representations of an object, selected by 
their size on the screen.  THis will make big, fast worlds possible
(just like video games).  I've been experimenting with scaling of
motion speed with render time, which seems to be transparent enough
and really makes navigation easy.  Horizons have been added, and
an optional "axis compass" can be drawn (really simple, but neat).

The current stage is concentrating on a glove with joystick.  The 
joystick is like a motorized "wheelchair" so you can move forward
and back, and turn.  Pressing the button changed to tilt and sideways motion.
The glove is always "in front" of you, so you can drive up to something
and manipulate it.  This works quite well, but I haven't got the
glove selection going yet.

The Sega glasses work fine with this system, and the presence effect is 
very strong.  Of course, you've either got to tolerate a small window
on the world, or set the stereo parameters to minaturize the world.
Moving closer to the screen doesn't work too well with the Segas.
But right now we've got a 6-room house, and I can drive around in
it at high speeds, going through walls, etc.  Now if it just had a
few more furnishings..  (If you're offering then, keep the poly count
low, and scale them for 1 unit = 1 mm).

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Jul 14 13:40:53 1992
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 10:16:58 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207141716.AA21656@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: source distribution

[ Bernie forgot to put rend386.lib src in the .zip file ]

This is what Makefiles are for :-)

If "cd subdir; make xxx" works in makefiles, you could
automate the whole process of building ZIPs, unpacking
subdirectories, and rebuilding the whole source tree.
Also, it's handy to have "TCC=tcc" and "TL=tcc" for
the C compiler and linker programs.  Under Borland
1.x, you have to say "tcc -IC:\turboc\include" and
"Tcc -Lc:\turboc\lib".  

Also, having everything packaged
in an automated system makes it convenient to
test releases in alternate directores.

Lance Norskog

It's really hard to type with a cat head between your hands.

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jul 14 23:24:51 1992
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 23:24:51 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207150324.AA26379@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: glove gesture recognition


I've been working on some code for glove gesture recognition, and it
seems robust enough to be firm.  So here's the specs for your perusal:

The recognition code is built into the interrupt-driven glove code for
REND386.  It updates 2 variables: gesture_type, and gesture_length.
Gesture_length is the number of glove reads (about 20/sec) that the
gesture has been stable for, and makes "debouncing" a geture trivial--
just check if the count exceeds a certain threshold.

Gesture_type is a code for the gesture.  At present there are 11
gestures:
FLAT -- open hand (neutral, do nothing)
FIST -- all fingers and thumb closed
THUMB_OUT -- fist with extended thumb
POINT -- index finger extended, thumb ignored
RING_IN -- effectively, both index and middle finger pointing, thumb ignored
MIDDLE_IN -- only middle figer bent.  Seems stable, but can degenerate to POINT
INDEX_IN -- only index finger bent.
PINCH -- both thumb and index finger bent.  Yiu really have to get the thumb
_under_ the index finger for the glove to sense this, so it can degenerate to
just INDEX_IN
BADFINGER -- middle finger extended.  Nuff said.
RING_OUT -- only ring figer extended.

Also, UNKNOWN is returned if none of the previous match.  At present, none
of the finger positions match this code.  I use a table of finger max/mins
and then "compile" a 256-entry lookup table at run-time, so changes could 
make this show up.  

Since in proctice, the glove data dependes on its calibration and the wearer,
some of the codes are nearly unusable, and should be combined into a simpler
set.  The interrupt code supports a mapping table, so that the combined 
codes may be debounced.  The best use seems to be to map THUMB_IN to FLAT
and INDEX_IN to PINCH as well as RING_OUT to FIST.  This reflects the noisy
ring finger and poor thumb calibration I've seen on my gloves.  But you
end up with a nice set of gesture states, and thanks to the max/min table
and some tweeking, they are very stable and can be commanded at will.  I
haven't tried mapping in rotation as yet, but it'd have to be less glitchy
to work anyway.

The proposed uses are FLAT as do-nothing, FIST as move, POINT as select,
and RING_IN (2-finger point) as menu callup.  I'm sure other gesture
uses will be forthcoming.  Now if I could just keep my knuckles from
getting worn raw in those @@$$@! gloves...

-Dave STampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Thu Jul 16 02:02:00 1992
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 23:01:00 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207160601.AA25855@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: rend386 sources

The source to rend386.lib is not in devel3.zip.
Are you planning to put on sunee anytime soon?
After paying a whole $20 for old Borland C,
it would be nice to actually compile the demo program :-)

Thanks,

Lance Norskog

From tkl@inel.gov  Thu Jul 16 10:52:39 1992
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 08:31:53 MDT
Message-Id: <9207161431.AA11398@mica.inel.gov>
To: rend386@sunee
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: REND386 compilation
Cc: tkl@inel.gov

Anybody else having trouble compiling REND386 demo3?  Using Turbo C++ 3.0 I
get the error messages shown below?  Are my problems related to lack of
REN386.lib sources (as pointed out by Lance Norskog)?  Any help would be
much appreciated.

--------------------  screen dump -------------------------------
MAKE Version 3.6  Copyright (c) 1991 Borland International

Available memory 3161440 bytes

       tcc -ml demo3.obj color256.obj pcxmodey.obj demo.lib sega.lib
userint.lib rend386.lib blit256.lib

Turbo C++ Version 3.00 Copyright (c) 1992 Borland International
Turbo Link  Version 5.0 Copyright (c) 1992 Borland International
Error: Fixup overflow at _TEXT:037E, target = _initialize_screen_factors in
library file demo.lib in module STEREOV
Error: Fixup overflow at _TEXT:0354, target = _m_mult in library file
demo.lib in module STEREOV
Error: Fixup overflow at _TEXT:033C, target = _m_mult in library file
demo.lib in module STEREOV
Error: Fixup overflow at _TEXT:0324, target = _m_mult in library file
demo.lib in module STEREOV
Error: Fixup overflow at .........
....... AND SO FORTH.
----------------------- end screen dump ----------------------------

--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Jul 16 11:14:54 1992
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 09:16:07 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207161516.AA18056@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  rend386 sources

You can compile the demo program with all of the sources and libraries included
in the distribution package.

joe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Jul 16 11:21:37 1992
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 09:22:56 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207161522.AA18068@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee, tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re:  REND386 compilation

The fixup error is due to different memory models.  Make sure that everything
is being compiled in LARGE model.  I was able to use the makefile for the
demo to compile the demo program.  

joe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Jul 16 11:31:19 1992
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 09:32:21 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207161532.AA18108@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  rend386 sources

Now I remember why I was able to compile using the makefile.  Add the following
two lines to the make file BEFORE it tries to build the library.  

            bcc -c -ml stereov.c
and         bcc -c -ml mathinit.c

This will compile these two files to objects using large library as every
other file.  If you do this, you SHOULD have no problems.

joe

From thinman@netcom.com  Thu Jul 16 13:59:03 1992
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 10:57:55 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207161757.AA26219@netcom.netcom.com>
In-Reply-To: tkl@inel.gov
       "REND386 compilation" (Jul 16,  8:31am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: tkl@inel.gov, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: REND386 compilation

Yes, those were the other errors I got.
I think the manual said those were benign error messages.

Lance Norskog

From tkl@inel.gov  Thu Jul 16 14:13:17 1992
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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 12:13:04 MDT
Message-Id: <9207161813.AA17476@mica.inel.gov>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: REND386 compilation
Cc: tkl@inel.gov

>Yes, those were the other errors I got.
>I think the manual said those were benign error messages.
>
>Lance Norskog

Yes, Joe G's. suggestion worked.  On the REND386 demo3, recompile
mathinit.c and stereov.c with the large memory model (add lines to the
makefile or whatever) and all is well (at least with Turbo C++ V3).  In my
case the errors were not benign since everything blew up big time.
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jul 16 17:24:03 1992
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	id <AA26587>; Thu, 16 Jul 92 17:24:02 -0400
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 17:24:02 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207162124.AA26587@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re:  REND386 compilation

The reason for fixup overflows is the ordering of the link.  Try to shift
the order and it should work.

- Dave Stampe
The order I use with BC:
rend3dis
matrix
mathinit
3dsupp
joystick
mouse
userint
sgint
sgsppt
glovedel
stereov
demo3
plg
pointer
render
segio
segment
color256
pcxmodey
fx3dkit
fbxblit
fmpmaskx
fmultpx
ftribltx
gxsppt
maskxtri
vgaxline

Some of these may have been chanded or added.

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Thu Jul 16 17:30:14 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 16 Jul 92 14:32
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386 runtime problem

Hello,
I am also having troubles trying to get demo3 made.  I am using the
same make (version 3.6), the same Turbo C++ (3.00) and the same
Turbo Link (version 5.0).  But, I am not having any problems getting
everything to compile nor link.  I am recompiling all the files that
are provided (except the blit256 library).  The problem that I am seeing
is that I can't load in a figure file.  With the demo3 program supplied,
it works fine, but with the demo3 version that I made after I type in
the figure name and then a <cr>, it just returns -- no figure to be
seen!  Also, suspiciously the executable file sizes are different. 
The demo3.exe provided is 113412 bytes and mine is 112800.  Any idea
what is wrong?
Thanks, James

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Jul 16 18:21:54 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207162223.AA18941@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: James_Barnes@logitech.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Rend386 runtime problem

My demo3.exe after recompiling is 113016.   James, I have a question for you
are you using 'F' to load the figure file?  or 'L'?  Remember that L is 
for plg files and f for figure.  If you try to load a figure file with L,
you will not get it.  If you are using them correctly, try and load a plg
file with the 'L' command and let us know what happens.  Even though my
compile size is smaller than provided, it works correctly.  Let us (me) know.
j

joe

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Thu Jul 16 19:29:51 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 16 Jul 92 16:23
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Rend386 runtime problem

          >My demo3.exe after recompiling is 113016.   James, I have a
          >question for you are you using 'F' to load the figure file?
          >or 'L'?  Remember that L is for plg files and f for figure.
          >If you try to load a figure file with L, you will not get
          >it.  If you are using them correctly, try and load a plg
          >file with the 'L' command and let us know what happens. 
          >Even though my compile size is smaller than provided, it
          >works correctly.  Let us (me) know.

          Ah, I am figuring out this mailing list!  Does anyone else
          get your mail bounced with an unknown user
          ccelric@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu?

          In answer to Joe's question, it looks like I can load in plg
          files with the L command, but I can't load in fig files with
          the L command.  Any other suggestions?

          Thanks for the info so far, Joe.  Now I can at least get to
          work on the driver for the 3D Mouse since I have something
          on the screen that I can manipulate.  Still, it will be a
          lot funner with metalman or the hand.
          Cheers, James

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jul 16 20:13:48 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207170013.AA06158@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: James_Barnes@logitech.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Rend386 runtime problem

Load in Fig files with the F command, and Plg files with the L command.
Yes, I get about 5 bounces for every message on the list myself (here we
go again...)

To all those with polys that appear and disappear: the problem is that your
4-sided polys are not coplanar!  If you can give me an example of a 
known coplanar or 3-sided poly that does this, I'll do something about it.
I just overhauled the 3DSUPP.C code to make it pick out a better set of
vertices for the normal calculation, but don't expect miracles.  It works
a bit better, though.

- Dave Stampe

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Thu Jul 16 20:31:29 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 16 Jul 92 17:32
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: DEMO

          >Can you load hand.fig?  Is the file metlcube.plg in your
          >directory?  Metalman.fig uses that .plg file to form the
          >robot.  Let me know.  joe

          Ah, problem solved...user error!  metlcube.plg wasn't in the
          same directory.  Thanks, Joe.

          Now back to the driver!

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Jul 16 20:56:33 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207170057.AA19156@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: James_Barnes@logitech.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  DEMO

Good to hear it.

joe

From BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET  Thu Jul 16 22:28:31 1992
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Date: 	Thu, 16 Jul 1992 23:27:00 -0400
From: BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GMGNTL5ZHC0003QU@SNYCANVA.BITNET>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vms-To: bitnet%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Hello
        I've got a question I hope someone out there in netland can answer.
I work in a CADlab and have been trying to find a program that will convert the
files from both CADKEY and AUTOCAD. to .plg files so I can include them in the
demo. I asm not much of a programmeer yet(I will be in a few years tho). So I
can't write them myself. I saw an article in a magazinePC world July I think
that twas talkingabout a share ware program that did alot of different
conversions from cad to different formats. My Idea was if that program coudl
convert to .plg or another format that one of the conversion program s in the
conversion directory at sunee.uwaterloo.ca I could do it. The only problem is
that now I have lost the magazine(my girlfriend tossed it) and the only place I
remeber where it could be found was on PC ONLINE. Which I can't afford access
to . So if anybody has any other ideas or can find the file I would reallly
appreciate it.
tanx in advance

Stephen
barber1@snycanva

        And to all other intelligent life out there , the trick is to bang the
rocks together guys.
                                Douglas Adams
                        Hitchikers guide to the galaxy
                        ------------------------------


From tkl@inel.gov  Fri Jul 17 11:55:00 1992
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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 09:38:19 MDT
Message-Id: <9207171538.AA03206@mica.inel.gov>
To: James_Barnes@logitech.com, rend386@sunee
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: Rend386 runtime problem

>Hello,
>I am also having troubles trying to get demo3 made.  I am using the
>same make (version 3.6), the same Turbo C++ (3.00) and the same
>Turbo Link (version 5.0).  But, I am not having any problems getting
>everything to compile nor link.  I am recompiling all the files that
>are provided (except the blit256 library).  The problem that I am seeing
>is that I can't load in a figure file.  With the demo3 program supplied,
>it works fine, but with the demo3 version that I made after I type in
>the figure name and then a <cr>, it just returns -- no figure to be
>seen!  Also, suspiciously the executable file sizes are different. 
>The demo3.exe provided is 113412 bytes and mine is 112800.  Any idea
>what is wrong?
>Thanks, James

My problem was that I did not recompile all of the files provided.  Seems
like mathinit and stereov as provided were compiled with a memory model
other than large.  Anyhow, in the makefile in devel3.zip, mathinit and
stereov are not included in the remake.  My recompiled demo3.exe is 112800
with Turbo C++ 3.0.  I'm not having any trouble with fig files.  Make sure
the fig file you want to load is in the same directory as demo3.exe, make
sure that the plg files that the fig file may need are in the directory,
and make sure to load the fig file using the "f" command not the "L". 
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From nelson@asylum.sf.ca.us  Sun Jul 19 09:52:40 1992
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Path: asylum!rpi!usc!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!princeton!siemens!benson
From: benson@siemens.com. (Dan Benson)
Newsgroups: sci.math,alt.3d,comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Converting a mouse location to a 3d coordinate
Message-Id: <97714@siemens.siemens.com>
Date: 17 Jul 92 14:49:16 GMT
References: <BrHnBJ.A14@csn.org>
Sender: news@SIEMENS.SIEMENS.COM
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Organization: Siemens Corp. Res., Inc.
Lines: 43
Xref: asylum sci.math:13701 alt.3d:533 comp.graphics:6472
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee

In article <BrHnBJ.A14@csn.org> kenw@teal.csn.org (Ken Waletzki) writes:
>Howdie!
>
>I am in need of some assistance with a problem to covert an XY from
>a two dimensional plane to a location on a 3d surface.  For instance,
>say one calculates and displays a sphere on a computer screen.  I
>know how to calculate an XY coordinate from the lat/lon on a sphere,
>but now I want to reverse the process and take an XY coord, say
>maybe from a mouse locator, and return the lat/lon on the sphere,
>as well as returning an error when the mouse XY location goes off the
>sphere.
>
>Essentially this:
>
>	get_latlon(x, y, &lat, &lon);
>
>Thanks,
>    Ken Waletzki
>-- 
>Ken Waletzki Consulting, 2525 Arapahoe #E4-107, Boulder, Colorado  80302
>303-494-8953, email kenw@csn.org

I think this may be what you're looking for:

M. Chen, A Study in Interactive 3-D Rotation Using 2-D Control
Devices, Computer Graphics, vol. 22, no. 4, 121-129, August 1988.

This article discusses a virtual trackball interface for 3-D
rotation using a mouse. The idea is to superimpose a virtual
trackball in the view so that the ball's center is on the surface
of the screen with half the ball in the screen and half coming
out of the screen. Mouse clicks in the circle are interpreted as
clicks on the surface coming out of the screen. Rotation can
take place along all three axis using a 2-D mouse. The paper
includes calculations for converting a 2-D point to its
equivalent 3-D surface point.



--
Dan Benson                           Siemens Corporate Research, Inc.
(609) 734-3668                       755 College Road East
benson@siemens.siemens.com           Princeton, NJ  08540

From adrian@maths.uwa.oz.au  Sun Jul 19 21:46:04 1992
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From: adrian@maths.uwa.oz.au (Adrian Smith)
Subject: Rend386 - Compile with DJGCC?
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 8:48:06 WST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Is it possible to compile rend386 with djgcc (dos port of gcc, gnu C compiler)?

Djgcc stores its libraries in a different format, I believe.


Adrian Smith
adrian@maths.uwa.edu.au

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jul 20 08:49:40 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207201249.AA10506@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: adrian@maths.uwa.oz.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Rend386 - Compile with DJGCC?

> From adrian@maths.uwa.oz.au Sun Jul 19 21:48:56 1992
> From: adrian@maths.uwa.oz.au (Adrian Smith)
> Subject: Rend386 - Compile with DJGCC?
> To: rend386@sunee
> 
> Is it possible to compile rend386 with djgcc (dos port of gcc, gnu C compiler)?
> 
> Djgcc stores its libraries in a different format, I believe.
> 
> 
> Adrian Smith
> adrian@maths.uwa.edu.au
> 

With the next release, all the source will be available.  But since there
are quite a few Borland-specific keywords and inline assembler, some
reformatting might be required.

- Dave Stampe

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Jul 20 16:40:13 1992
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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 13:39:53 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207202039.AA29850@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Rend386 - Compile with DJGCC?

Ha!

DJGCC creates programs for 32-bit mode, not 16-bit mode.
The assembler has a completely different format.  No,
you're stuck with this DOS shit unless you do a complete
rewrite.

Fully addressable 32-bit RAM.  Think about it.

Lance Norskog

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Mon Jul 20 16:46:55 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 20 Jul 92 13:49
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: PCX format

Hello,
I am having trouble with the PCX format and was hoping someone could
shed some light on the subject.  I have tried loading the logo.pcx
file into both Windows 3.1 Paintbrush and Photofinish 1.01. 
Both programs accept files that are PCX format.  However, with
Photofinish I get a memory error trying to load the file and with
Paintbrush I get an all black picture -- no logo to be seen.  I have
also tried to create my own 320x200 by 256 colors PCX picture and have
the demo3 program load it in, but demo3 hangs when trying to load the
file.  The file that I created can be read by both Paintbrush and
PhotoFinish.
Any thoughts?
Thanks much, James

P.S.  Also, is there a routine for creating a simple filled box with
an arbitrary location on the screen?  I would like to have a simple
menu bar that the mouse can access.  Cheers.

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jul 20 19:46:32 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207202346.AA07045@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, thinman@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Rend386 - Compile with DJGCC?

> From thinman@netcom.com Mon Jul 20 16:46:34 1992
> From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Re: Rend386 - Compile with DJGCC?
> 
> Ha!
> 
> DJGCC creates programs for 32-bit mode, not 16-bit mode.
> The assembler has a completely different format.  No,
> you're stuck with this DOS shit unless you do a complete
> rewrite.
> 
> Fully addressable 32-bit RAM.  Think about it.
> 
> Lance Norskog
> 

If I had found a DECENT environment to program in (similar to Borland's IDE)
I probably would have developed the REND386 kernal with it, and put in
a DOS-code interface, much like BC 3.0 seems to be doing.  Ah, well...

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Tue Jul 21 19:27:26 1992
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Via: uk.ac.leicester-poly; Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:27:10 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 00:27:09 BST
Message-Id: <21147.9207212327@helios.leicp.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Various programming bits...


I'm a little confused about some of the functions in
demo3.c.

I've modified this file to allow me to steer the hand around
reliably using the "joypad" on the glove (the jitter I'm
getting on the glove's position data makes it pretty much
unusable).  What I want is for the viewpoint ("eyepoint") 
to follow the hand around.

I've tried setting current_view->ex,ey,ez to the co-ords
and setting "review" to 1, but this does nothing.  Calling
compute_view_factors() directly results in the viewpoint
being stuck looking into the palm of the hand at
very close range (took me a while to figure that out!).

What is the purpose of polar_compute() ??  Since it operates
on a load of global variables it is difficult to see what it's
doing and when -- is it just a hack to allow the viewpoint
rotation?  What are longitude, latitude and centre_roll for?
How do I prevent my changes to the viewpoint from being 
overwritten inside polar_compute() ??

Also, what is the "preferred" way of accessing the glove data:
through glove_read() or through pointer_read()??  I notice
that although pointer_read() is called in demo3.c, pointer_init()
is not.  Is this what's supposed to happen?


Cheers,

Chris

 

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jul 21 23:05:32 1992
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Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 23:05:02 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207220305.AA26710@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Various programming bits...

The new release has capabilities for moving the viewpoint and glove
while linking them to the "body" position, which you can drive around
with the mouse.

polar_compute() just controls viewpoint and position to let you "spin"
around a point in space, giving the illusion of tumbling objects, and
is very useful for debugging as well.

In demo3, there is no way to read glove data except with glove_read().
In the next release, there is a pointer_read() routine to let you get
glove positions and gestures in _world_ coordinates.  So this ought to
fix a lot of problems and make implementation easy.  We also had a 
5-room demo loaded with objects (about 450 polys) with automatic
tasks etc. so this should be neat.

- Dave Stampe

From m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au  Wed Jul 22 06:50:00 1992
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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:19:48 +0930
From: m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au (michelangelo rubini)
Message-Id: <9207221049.AA16792@ermintrude.teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: objects

Is there any place where i can get a multitude of .plg object ? There was
something in this mailing list about many objects (many megs worth) on 
wuarchive (DDT format or something ???).   And .. also is there anyway to 
change that format to plg format.
cheers miker.
ps.  DDT was off the top of my head.  Not really sure if it exists or not :-)

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Wed Jul 22 17:11:24 1992
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          Wed, 22 Jul 92 12:52:10 
From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:07
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: pointer_init in demo3.c

          >I notice that although pointer_read() is called in demo3.c,
          >pointer_init() is not.  Is this what's supposed to happen?

          Hi Chris,
          I think I can help with this last one.  Hopefully, someone
          else can grab on to some of the others.  The reason for the
          pointer_<etc> discrepancies is because the demo program
          didn't initially use a separate input device for
          manipulating the objects.  Rather, pointer.c converts the
          standard mouse info into a simulated 3D input device.  And,
          since the mouse is being used by both mouse_read and
          pointer_read, you wouldn't want to initialize it with
          pointer_init.  Rather, the pointer stuff is initialized
          inline.  Look in the demo3.c program at line 1024 and you'll
          see what I mean.
                pointer.port = 0;
                pointer.gesture = pointer.buttons = 0;
                pointer.x = pointer.y = pointer.z = 0;
                pointer.pan = pointer.tilt = pointer.roll = 0;
                pointer.sx = pointer.sy = pointer.sz = 1;
                for (i = 0; i < 16; ++i) pointer->flex[i] = 0;
          All that is missing is the call to interrupt 51 (0x33) with
          a function number of 0 (Reset Mouse and Driver).

          I was also scratching my head for a while with this one.
          Cheers, James

From dmag%dude.engin.umich.edu@srvr2.engin.umich.edu  Wed Jul 22 20:05:58 1992
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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:04:10 -0400
From: Daniel Demaggio  <dmag@engin.umich.edu>
Message-Id: <5a1cae75e.000901b@dude.engin.umich.edu>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Various programming bits...

Hi guys!
    I've been hacking away and I've made some cool changes to
the Demo.  But first, a few answers for Chris:`

 1) The demo arrow keys allow you to rotate your viewpoint
as if you were on a sphere.  It has to call polar_compute
to keep track of this and put it in terms of the viewer. Without
something like polar_compute, the viewpoint would be much like
a camera: tilt, swivel, etc.  If all your objects are in the
center of the universe, they would scroll right off the screen
as you looked to one side. With polar_compute, you see the
objects from all different angles.  IMHO pretty cool.
 2) The reason setting current_view->ex,y,z doesn't work is
because polar_compute starts off with longitude and latitude
and computes the current_view.  Look carefully at the polar_
compute routine and it will be apparent.

  But the real reason for this post is that I have made a lot
of changes to make the demo easier to use.  For instance, there
is a 'mode' variable.  You hit 'r' and it puts it into Rotate
mode.  Now, when you grab an object with the mouse, you
control it's rotation.  When you let up on the mouse, you
are still in rotate mode and can grab another object.  Makes
fiddling with the METALMAN a lot easier.  Similarly, you can
move, change color, change surface type, etc. just by
clicking. You can also hit 'R' to go into velocity rotate
mode (like Twirl).  The major simplification is that you
don't have to navigate menus, just press keys.
  I have also added a crude animation frame editor. You can't
load new objects while animating or bad things will happen.
But what you do is position the guy, hit a key to go to the
next frame, then re-position.  It will animate from one
frame to the other, creating in-between frames by
interpolation.  It looks great.

  If anybody wants to see it, E-mail me.  It requires a mouse
as it is right now (but who doesn't have a mouse these days?)

      -=- Dan DeMaggio -=- dmag@caen.engin.umich.edu -=-
"That is really incredible. That is truly incredible.  That is so
incredibly incredible that I think I'd like to steal it." -Zaphod

From m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au  Thu Jul 23 05:02:43 1992
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Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:32:25 +0930
From: m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au (michelangelo rubini)
Message-Id: <9207230902.AA02466@ermintrude.teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: relations ...

I noted that view point has  x , y , z  and tilt, pan, and roll.  I noted that
object has relative x , y , z,  but is there relation with an object with tilt, pan , and roll ?  
What Im trying to say is .. lets say there is an opponent, who is represented
as a head ... can I "tilt, pan and roll" the object as easily as his view point ?
cheers miker

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jul 23 10:43:05 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207231441.AA22926@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  relations ...

> From m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au Thu Jul 23 05:04:15 1992
> From: m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au (michelangelo rubini)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: relations ...
> 
> I noted that view point has  x , y , z  and tilt, pan, and roll.  I noted that
> object has relative x , y , z,  but is there relation with an object with tilt, pan , and roll ?  
> What Im trying to say is .. lets say there is an opponent, who is represented
> as a head ... can I "tilt, pan and roll" the object as easily as his view point ?
> cheers miker
> 

Tutorial time...

Basically, REND386's rotates are done in this order: pan (rotate around
y axis), tilt (rotate around the new x axis) and roll (rotate around new
z axis, which is the line of view).   Looking along the z axis (from the
origin into the positive z direction) y goes up, x goes right.

Now the pan, tilt and roll for an object do exactly this to every point
in the world.  The ry, rx, and rz (note order) do this to every point
on an object, thus rotating it.  Obviously this is a non-Abelian system of rotates, so sequential rotates may result in strange configurations (which is
one reason to add and subtract rotation angles rather than performing
sequential rotates).

Obviously, the effect of rotating an object has the exact opposite effect
of the view angles.  To make these work, use the matrix forms of viewpoint
setting.  (Unfortunately there's a slight bug in DEMO3, but the upcoming
release fixes that).  You basically must use the INVERSE of the head-object
rotation to rotate the scene points, and the new release does that.  It also
lets the viewpoint be part of a segmented figure, so we can have real
body-like relations between glove and viewpoint (we needed to add this to
get the HMD system going).

Now, REND386 is a lefthanded coordinate system, but some of the angle
ditections (rx, ry, rz) may be opposite to the usual convention but
I've never bothered to find out so far.  In any case, just negate the angles till they work.  The next release will have a (floating point) routine to
convert a matrix back to angles, so this should help with some of the
complex stuff.

Anyway, the upcoming release has most of the tools you'll need.  But feel 
free to experiment...

- Dave Stampe

From swmereu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu  Fri Jul 24 21:24:01 1992
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Subject: Virtual Reality Program
From: <swmereu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:24:20 -0400
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Message-Id: <92Jul24.212352edt.247990@descartes.waterloo.edu>

Hi 

I heard that you had a really neat shareware virtual reality program for the
386. I was wondering if I might be able to get a copy. 

Stephen

From taihou@iss.nus.sg  Fri Jul 24 22:31:42 1992
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Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 10:32:27 SST
From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
Message-Id: <9207250232.AA17657@iss.nus.sg>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Hidden surface?


Hi. Can someone discuss at length on the techniques used
in Rend386 for hidden surface removal and rendering and clipping?

Thanks.

Tai Hou
Singapore

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 25 01:25:24 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207250525.AA02891@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, swmereu@undergrad.math
Subject: Re:  Virtual Reality Program

> From swmereu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu Fri Jul 24 21:32:12 1992
> Subject: Virtual Reality Program
> From: <swmereu@undergrad.math>
> To: rend386@sunee
> 
> Hi 
> 
> I heard that you had a really neat shareware virtual reality program for the
> 386. I was wondering if I might be able to get a copy. 
> 
> Stephen
> 

It's better than shareware: it's FREE!  Just FTP it from sunee.uwaterloo.ca
from the pub/rend386 directory.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 25 01:51:04 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207250550.AA03862@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, taihou@iss.nus.sg
Subject: Re:  Hidden surface?

> From taihou@iss.nus.sg Fri Jul 24 22:36:39 1992
> From: taihou@iss.nus.sg (Tng Tai Hou)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Hidden surface?
> 
> 
> Hi. Can someone discuss at length on the techniques used
> in Rend386 for hidden surface removal and rendering and clipping?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Tai Hou
> Singapore
> 

Hidden surface removal: with release3, RND386 simply sorts polys by 
farthest vertex, then draws from farthest to nearest.  Usually
works OK.  Release 4 introduces sorting by object, then by polys
within objects (tweeking this can cut visibility errors way down,
but doesn't fix them all.  It also introduces "splits", which are like
BSP trees but don't divide objects or polys.  

Basically, a split is a plane which divides space in two.  By specifying
the order in which splits are created and by giving a sample point on
the split, you can create a tree of splits.  These divide the world into 
areas.  By hanging objects (i.e. walls) from the splits, you can fix
big visibility errors.  For example, by defining a split as part of a wall, the renderer willdraw all objects further from the viewpoint than the
wall, then the wall, then all objects nearer.  Thus you'll never see anything
through a wall, unless thr wall has a hole in it.

There are some problems with splits, but we're working on them.

Rendering:
REND386 basically draws polys (specified by a CCW-ordered list of
vertices) directly to the screen buffer.  You can preclear the 
screen buffer (or not, if you're inside a room with no windows) and
with release 4, you'll be able to draw a horizon with ground and sky clear.
You can also draw polys with metal (brightness cycling) and glass 
(halftones for transparent polys).

The color of a poly can be calculated in user_poly_color() so you're
free to modify lighting, colorsets, etc. as you see fit.  Release 4
MAY include multiple light sources or something-- not sure yet.  But
it will support ambient lighting as well as cosine lighting.  Point
sources as well as directional light sources too.

Clipping:
REND386's calcultion pipeline clips in several stages, trying to decimate
the number of polys to draw as early as possible.  Does it really help?
Who knows.

The first step is to check if the bounding sphere of an object is entirely
outside of the 6 planes bounding the view pyramid.  The slope of the side
planes is computed using screen dimansions, zoom, and offsets, and
the calculations are pretty fast.

Next, the object is processed poly by poly (if it passed the object
clip test).  Each poly is checked to see if it's backfacing by doing
a dot product between the poly normal and the line from one of the vertices to
the viewpoint.  The sign of the d.p. determines if its backfacing.

Now a pass thru all the vertices of the poly converts the Z coordinate
to viewport coords, and computes an outcode.  Lots of polys lost here.
Then the poly is z-clipped (if the outcode says it needs it).  After
this, the x and y coords are converted to viewport coords.

The x and y are divided by Z to get perspective, and the x and y outcodes
are generated.  If required, the poly is XY clipped in screen coordinates.
The clipper is a reentrant Sutherland-Hodgeman clipper which passes each vertex
thru a pipeline of top, left, bottom, and right clippers, then flushes any
pending data at the end of each poly.

The polys are then colored and lit, and the vertices unpacked for
after the polys are sorted.  The unpacked vertices, along with color info,
are then rendered.

Things can get more complex than this, of course.  This is an overview 
of essentials

- Dave Stampe

From BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET  Sun Jul 26 17:26:47 1992
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Date: 	Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:55:00 -0400
From: BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET
Subject: Glove code
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GMUB5N0VLC0000VB@SNYCANVA.BITNET>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vms-To: BITNET%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

hello

        this is in reference to the glove.c code and such. I know that this
macompile glove.c and the rest I get the same error code at the end of
the compilation. It is this:
Error: illegal character '' (0x00))
        I am not sure what this is. The error is always located at the
end of the file. I am ass
uming that it is a control code of some sort.
However I don't know which system put it there or how to get it out of
there. I have tried deleting the line and It doesn't go away. I also
can't see the "illegal character" all that is on the screen in the
c++ editor is an empty line. Does anybody know what to do about this?

also:
        to dave stewart: Do you still need .DXF files for data? I have
some that I could send to you. Do you want wire frames or what? Tell
me and I'll make whatever you need.

tanx in advance
Stephen Palm
Barber1@snycanva.bitnet

        And to all other intelligent life out there: The trick is to
        And to all other intelligent life out there: The trick is to
        And to all other intelligent life out there: The trick is to

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Jul 27 19:57:43 1992
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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:07:48 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9207272307.AA23109@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: OFF format library

I found the OFF format paper, library, and sample program
on gatekeeper.dec.com.  The whole distribution is called
off.tar.Z.  The object database is already in various
places; the library features an alternative binary
representation that cuts down on the size and reading
speed of the geometry files.  It also handles all of
the OFF secondary database files and adds them as
properties to the polygons.

I'll upload it to sunee if you like.

Lance Norskog

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Fri Jul 31 10:42:43 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9207310708.AA09982@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee, glove-list@karazm.math.uh.edu
Subject: rend386 .. right-eye phase shifted?


Hi, I have finally got the interface for the glove working and for the glasses.
I got my Toshiba glasses from reel-3d and can fully recommend them. They are
well-built, comfortable, can be worn with glasses, and have large are LCDs.
I seem to have a problem using them with rend386, I wanted to know if anyone
else had the same problem or whether I got a bunk pair.

The left eye piece works perfectly, but the right eye sometimes lets a left
image through, I have a feeling it is software based as the system was
unusable with the glove because the right eye was so out of sync. But the
bleeding was less apparent on a 486.

Any Ideas?


              ----------------         ----------------
             |      _   /|A   |       |   _ |\ A       |
             |      |  / |n   |       |   | | \ n      |
             |        /  |d   |       |     |  \ d     |
             | ___   /   |y   |       |  ___|   \ y    |
             |  |   /    |r   |       |   | |    \ r   |
             |  |  /     |o   |       |   | |     \ o  |
             |    /      |o   |       |     |      \ o |
              ----------------         ----------------

Cross-eyed, not distance focussed

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Fri Jul 31 14:07:33 1992
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 12:04:16 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9207311804.AA11655@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee


                     PCVR Issue 4 now mailing...



Are you:
               Having trouble with Rend386?


Issue 4 includes articles on..

               * Compiling Rend386 programs
               * A Rend386 program skeleton
               * Creating objects in Rend386
               * Creating figures in Rend386
               * Using the Powerglove/Sega
                       interfaces in Rend386


Are You:
               Interested in a head mounted display
                video system that doesn't require
                three VGA cards, or even two video
                cards?


Issue 4 includes an article on...

              * Building your own head mounted display.
                 This second article in a series
                 discusses a video system that uses a
                 single VGA card to produce separate
                 images on Casio 2.2" color LCD TVs.
                 All without opening the TVs or making
                 changes to the VGA card.


** Subscriptions are available for:

                $26.00 - US/Canada
                $38.00 - Overseas

We accept check, money order, Visa and Mastercard.  Credit card orders
should include card type, card number, expiration date, and signature.

** Trial issues one and two are available for

                $3.00 - US/Canada each
                $5.00 - Overseas each

** Back issues are also available for

                $4.50 - US/Canada each
                $6.50 - Overseas each

*** Address:

                PCVR
                1706 Sherman Hill Rd #A
                Laramie, Wyoming  82070

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Jul 31 16:22:49 1992
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 15:42:22 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9207311942.AA24312@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: glove-list@karazm.math.uh.edu, lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  rend386 .. right-eye phase shifted?

> From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au Fri Jul 31 10:56:13 1992
> From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
> To: rend386@sunee, glove-list@karazm.math.uh.edu
> Subject: rend386 .. right-eye phase shifted?
> 
> 
> Hi, I have finally got the interface for the glove working and for the glasses.
> I got my Toshiba glasses from reel-3d and can fully recommend them. They are
> well-built, comfortable, can be worn with glasses, and have large are LCDs.
> I seem to have a problem using them with rend386, I wanted to know if anyone
> else had the same problem or whether I got a bunk pair.
> 
> The left eye piece works perfectly, but the right eye sometimes lets a left
> image through, I have a feeling it is software based as the system was
> unusable with the glove because the right eye was so out of sync. But the
> bleeding was less apparent on a 486.
> 
> Any Ideas?
> 
> 
>               ----------------         ----------------
>              |      _   /|A   |       |   _ |\ A       |
>              |      |  / |n   |       |   | | \ n      |
>              |        /  |d   |       |     |  \ d     |
>              | ___   /   |y   |       |  ___|   \ y    |
>              |  |   /    |r   |       |   | |    \ r   |
>              |  |  /     |o   |       |   | |     \ o  |
>              |    /      |o   |       |     |      \ o |
>               ----------------         ----------------
> 
> Cross-eyed, not distance focussed
> 

I'd have to check the release 3 code.. but I think it's a sync problem
with video updates, not the glasses driver.  The Release 4 uses a different
method to determine when it's safe to start drawing the next image, so it
runs faster and doesn't have this problem.

- Dave Stampe

From griff@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Mon Aug  3 15:12:49 1992
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From: griff@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (yo'man)
Message-Id: <9208031911.AA01435@huey.cc.utexas.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: dxf converter?


does anyone have a dxf converter or is working on one currently?  I've been looking
at the format and it's not too pretty. . . . 


thanks,

Andrew Wheeler
Applied Research Laboratories
University of Texas at Austin

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Tue Aug  4 20:44:49 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208050046.AA02568@mehta>
To: glove-list@win30.nas.nasa.gov, rend386@sunee
Subject: Timing problem


Thanks for the replies.

I looked at it again and noticed that both eyes on the shutter glasses were
flicking almost indescernably at the same rate, but the images on the 486
had a noticable pause every few fractions of a second almost at a constant
rate.

This indicates to me that the rend386 software (version 3) has the problem
I think Bernie posted me to say version 4 fixes this. Has anyone else had
that problem with version 3?

Andrew Longhorn.

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Wed Aug  5 20:27:29 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 05 Aug 92 17:09
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: rel_move_segment question

          Hello all,
          I am using the rel_move_segment command and have run into a
          problem.  Nicely enough, the same problem occurs in the
          demo3 program (demo program version 3.0).  When you load in
          an object and try to move it (Z then M), it hits a barrier
          going right, up or away.  The segments seem stuck in one
          quadrant.  Anyway around this?

          Also, there is a definite bug in copy_block.  Is this a
          known problem?  If not, I can mail code samples.
          Cheers, James

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Fri Aug  7 15:40:17 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208071940.AA14960@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: James_Barnes@logitech.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  rel_move_segment question

James,

  Which .fig files are you using?  Are there limits set in the figure file?


joe

From broehl  Sat Aug  8 12:14:51 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9208081614.AA00489@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Latest REND386 demo now available
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 12:14:50 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


The latest version of the rend386 package is now available for ftp.

It's on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386 directory.  At the moment,
only the demo is available, in a file called "demo4.zip".  The libraries
and library documentation are still being worked on, and should be available
some time towards the end of August.  (Bernie's about to go on holidays,
and Dave's got exams).

The current IP address for sunee.uwaterloo.ca is 129.97.50.50; note
that this has changed since the last release.  If you're at a site that has
a working nameserver, you won't need to worry about this.

If you don't have access to ftp, you can use the ftpmail service; just send
a mail message with the word help in the body (not the subject line!) to
ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com, and you'll receive mail back telling you how to use
the service.  (If you have problems using ftpmail, mention them in an
appropriate newsgroup -- not to the rend386 list!).

Remember to transfer .zip files in binary mode, both when ftp'ing and when
downloading to your local 386 system.  This is by far the most common mistake
people run into when getting the package.

As before, neither Dave nor I have time to service requests for floppy disks
in the mail, or uuencoded files sent via email, or what have you.  We'd much
rather be working on the software.

Note that some of the incompatabilities with different C compilers have
been fixed, but not all.  I'm developing using Turbo C++ version 1.00,
Dave is using a recent version of Borland C 3.00-something.

If you have any questions/problems/etc, please direct them to Bernie
(broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca) or Dave (dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca)
and we'll try to help.  Please don't post things directly to the
list unless you're sure they'll be of general interest; we're trying
to keep mailing list traffic as light as possible.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Aug  9 11:38:57 1992
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Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 11:38:56 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208091538.AA07673@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: mail


If you have technical questions about Release 4, send them to me
(dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca) rather than Bernie, as he'll be
away till the 17th.  Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for
a reply.

- Dave Stampe

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Sun Aug  9 18:08:33 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208092210.AA00947@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  rel_move_segment question


I noticed that limitation also in the demo3 program.

Andrew

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Mon Aug 10 03:10:03 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208100534.AA19459@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee, jlb31348@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, msimon@physics.ucla.edu
Subject: rend386 & Timing problem with toshiba glasses

OK, I hung around and got the rend386 version 4 demo hoping it would fix the
problem. But NO! This is bugging me.

There are 2 points I want to make before continuing, Firstly, the flickering
of the LCDs is MUCH more noticeable running version 3 rend386 and the picture
on the left is steady and the picture on the right leaks through about 1 frame
a second.

Running version 4 makes the flickering almost un-noticable on both eyes (as
if the speed is up or something) but the left image is PERFECT
(no leak at all) and the right image is garbage (almost 100% leak through),
this makes the image flat (as the depth cue disappears).

Jim Brain made a comment about the the glasses being more sensitive to an
AC frequency shift? Would this account for the leaking? I think it might,
If so, how can I modify the standard sega circuit? Jim also mentioned that
the glasses may want more than 10 volts, though I think it's not as
contributory to the problem.

Martin, if you have any ideas about this please contribute. Is there a
minimum requirement for frequency or voltage or something?

Lastly, in rend386 version 3 , is it not a little silly that the mouse
cursor gets drawn with the left image but the selection co-ordinates are
calculated on the basis of the right image? I haven't investigated if this
is fixed in version 4 but I would think it should be (the image is too
confusing for me to bother with it)

Thanks in advance for any ideas.
(Jim, if you're wondering I haven't had the heart to bother my techo-friends
with this problem).

Andrew Longhorn.

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Aug 10 07:37:25 1992
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 07:34:02 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208101134.AA17012@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: jlb31348@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu, lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au,
        msimon@physics.ucla.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  rend386 & Timing problem with toshiba glasses

Try reversing the connections to the glasses: maybe it's your hardware
that's bad.  If the software is at fault, you'd expect vertical bars
at top or bottom of leak-through.

- Dave Stampe

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Mon Aug 10 11:45:18 1992
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Via: uk.ac.leicester-poly; Sat, 8 Aug 1992 23:12:55 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 23:12:37 BST
Message-Id: <28878.9208082212@helios.leicp.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Polys and Sorting

I hope these qns are of general interest:

1. I have created a .FIG file with a fairly large number of polys.
   There seem to be quite a few errors in terms of things being visible
   when they shouldn't.

  Can I fix this using the "sort" parameter in the .FIG file?  What does
  the numeric argument (eg. "sort 768") refer to?  I tried "768" but this
  didn't fix the errors.  The docs don't give much away.

  Am I right in thinking that all polys must be specified with vertices
  ANTI-clockwise from outside?  (Some of Dave's mail messages say "clockwise",
  but the docs with demo3 say "CCW" -- is that a typo?).

2. I have a .PLG of a pentangular (?) prism.  The end polys are
   5-pointed stars.  I suppose these count as "concave" polygons?
   They don't get drawn properly anyway...


I'm looking forward to getting hold of release 4... this thing has
come on in leaps and bounds over the last month or so!

Cheers,

Chris


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Aug 10 12:04:43 1992
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 12:03:54 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208101603.AA04381@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Polys and Sorting

The sort 768 does sorting by object insted of poly.  It's a bit of 
trial-and-error to see what looks best.  I took another look at visibility  stuff: still no better fast-and-good ways yet.  I'd hate to cut the speed
by a factor of 3...

I'd have to see the PLG file.  But multisided polys work fine,
as long as they're coplanar!

- Dave STampe

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Tue Aug 11 10:22:20 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208110158.AA19680@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: sega wiring diagram

ok, is this how everyone has understood the external connector?

centre     middle       outside
   |          |            |
   |          |            |      ________________
  \|/  ______\|/__________\|/____|                \
  ____/|            ||           |                 |____________
 /    ||            ||           |                 |          _
 \____||            ||           |                 |_________
      \|____________||___________|                 |
                                 |________________/


????????????????????????


              ----------------         ----------------
             |      _   /|A   |       |   _ |\ A       |
             |      |  / |n   |       |   | | \ n      |
             |        /  |d   |       |     |  \ d     |
             | ___   /   |y   |       |  ___|   \ y    |
             |  |   /    |r   |       |   | |    \ r   |
             |  |  /     |o   |       |   | |     \ o  |
             |    /      |o   |       |     |      \ o |
              ----------------         ----------------

Cross-eyed, not distance focussed

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Aug 11 22:51:10 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208120251.AA04554@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: checking for next release


Some things have come up for the next release that might be important,
and I'll need feedback to see how disruptive they'd be to those who
have written code already.

First, the rotation of the segments may be the inverse of what is 
expected.  I'm checking it out, but I need to know: how many
people have written software that would be adversely affected by
a change in segment rotation effects?  Basically, the rotations
alone would be the same, but in combination they'd act differently.
Right now, the rotation order is YXZ in world->camera format, but
this might be wrong for segment rotations.

On the same topic, the angle directions are probably not correct
for the left-handed coordinate system.  Comments?  Problems if 
one or more of pan, tilt, and roll are negated in the next release?

A final structural note.  REND386 places objects directly in the world,
keeping object coordinates for use in segment repositioning.  As you
know, most other systems only keep object coordinates, then combine
the object position and view matrix to render the object.
Now, to do this in REND386 would slow the system by about 20%, and
would not decrease memory requirements to speak of.  It might allow
the reuse of object representations, but probably not their recoloring.

Can anyone think of an overriding reason to go to this method?  It would
be transparent to older software, of course.  But it would be a lot of
work, and slow the system, so I need some damn good reasons first.

- Dave Stampe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Aug 12 00:00:13 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208120359.AA04271@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  checking for next release

Dave,

  In my opinion, if things come out a little different than the industry,
this is ok.  We need the graphics system as fast as possible.  This 
becomes clearly evident when running the demo4 program in stereo.  Even on
my 486/50, we are no where near the speed we need.  If this is cut by
20%, it will certainly affect.

joe

From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au  Wed Aug 12 04:54:46 1992
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From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Message-Id: <9208120858.AA00901@infs5.ee.uwa.oz>
Subject: Re: checking for next release
To: dstamp@watserv1 (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:58:12 WST
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9208120251.AA04554@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>; from "Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng" at Aug 11, 92 10:51 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 
> A final structural note.  REND386 places objects directly in the world,
> keeping object coordinates for use in segment repositioning.  As you
> know, most other systems only keep object coordinates, then combine
> the object position and view matrix to render the object.
> Now, to do this in REND386 would slow the system by about 20%, and
> would not decrease memory requirements to speak of.  It might allow
> the reuse of object representations, but probably not their recoloring.
> 
 20% seems like a very high figure. Would an extra 9 multiplyaccumulates
per vertex per frame really take that much time?  How are viewpoints 
currently managed?


Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
'Another day, another try.  But remember, SHOOT OR DIE!' -turrican
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au		c64 forever!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 12 09:26:45 1992
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 09:26:35 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208121326.AA01340@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  checking for next release

> From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu Wed Aug 12 00:00:08 1992
> From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
> To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
> Subject: Re:  checking for next release
> 
> Dave,
> 
>   In my opinion, if things come out a little different than the industry,
> this is ok.  We need the graphics system as fast as possible.  This 
> becomes clearly evident when running the demo4 program in stereo.  Even on
> my 486/50, we are no where near the speed we need.  If this is cut by
> 20%, it will certainly affect.
> 
> joe
> 

I managed to get a 20% increase in stereo speed in the demo by adding
some blitter code to use 16-bit accesses if possible.  So on my machine
I get a worst-case (near the robot, looking at the window) of 8.5 fps
now (it used to be 6).  The reason is poly overlap of the walls.  Some
extra speed may be gotten by decreasing the zoom (wide-angle display
or Sega glasses with "miniaturized" world).  The demo will be updated
when the source is released.

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 12 09:48:35 1992
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 09:48:17 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208121348.AA03095@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au
Subject: Re: checking for next release
Cc: rend386@sunee

> From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au Wed Aug 12 04:55:44 1992
> From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
> Subject: Re: checking for next release
> To: dstamp@watserv1 (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
> Cc: rend386@sunee
> 
> > 
> > A final structural note.  REND386 places objects directly in the world,
> > keeping object coordinates for use in segment repositioning.  As you
> > know, most other systems only keep object coordinates, then combine
> > the object position and view matrix to render the object.
> > Now, to do this in REND386 would slow the system by about 20%, and
> > would not decrease memory requirements to speak of.  It might allow
> > the reuse of object representations, but probably not their recoloring.
> > 
>  20% seems like a very high figure. Would an extra 9 multiplyaccumulates
> per vertex per frame really take that much time?  How are viewpoints 
> currently managed?
> 
> 
> Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
> 'Another day, another try.  But remember, SHOOT OR DIE!' -turrican
> phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au		c64 forever!!!!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

Actually, this is what needs to be done:

- Precompute object center position (for fast object clip) and update
object position matrix when object moves

In the renderer:
- Convert object center to camera coordinates, check against clipping
planes (done now, no extra cost)
- Compute an object comversion matrix: inverse(VIEW)*(OBJECT) -- 36 
multiplies, 36 shifts, probably 5 cache misses
- Convert the viewpoint to object coordinates for the normal backside
test: inverse(OBJECT)*v  : 12 multiplies, 6 shifts, 2 cache misses
- Proceed normally after this.

The added time for the extra matrix steps is about 85 uS on a 486/50
per object.  For 50 objects displayed, this is about 5mS, which is about
a 20% slowdown  for a scene displayed at 30 fps.  If the objects are 
fairly complex, the speed decrement will be less.

One of the main reason matrices are used are representation sharing 
and saving time on motion.  Because most REND386 objects are simple
(for speed reasons) and only a few objects per frame move (average 2
probably) there isn't an advantage for motion.  If objects were complex
or everything moved, there'd be a BIG advantage.

Representation sharing has 2 problems: colors and scaling.  Colors could
differ between representation uses (seperate objects) but you might use a color list for each object (one entry for each poly).  Scaling affects the
normals of the polys if you don't make the X,Y,and Z scaling identical.
So to re-use a representation with scaling you either have to give up
"height control", or also have a "normal list" for each object.
You could multiply normals by the scaling, but then they're no
longer unit length and can't be used for lighting.

That's a quick analysis of the how and why of matrix-based objects.
You can see it's a fundamental change in the REND386 internals.
So unless there's a REALLY good reason...

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 12 09:55:29 1992
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 09:55:28 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208121355.AA03368@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: PLG loading


To those of you who have written code that loads PLG files:
Is your code going to have problems if extra parameters are added
to the poly definition lines (i.e after the stuff that's there now)?
There's a number of things that can be added, and skipping to the next 
line after you've read the data will be the best way to handle enhancements.

If adding parameters will interfere with your code, I need to know RIGHT NOW.
Thanks!

- Dave Stampe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Aug 12 10:10:11 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208121410.AA04880@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Lights

Dave,
  Have you considered adding support for more light sources?

joe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 12 12:47:21 1992
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 12:47:16 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208121647.AA12862@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Lights

> From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu Wed Aug 12 10:13:24 1992
> From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Lights
> 
> Dave,
>   Have you considered adding support for more light sources?
> 
> joe
> 

Yes, we've been thinking about it.  It adds about 15 uS per poly per
light source, so it would slow the room4.wld for example by 5mS (about
10%) per extra light source.  There might be a special light source 
structure which could be linked in lists and passed to the viewport.

The best sort of lightsource would change illumination with distance,
but this would give wierd results with big polys (walls, etc) since
they'd have the same illumination all over.

Any comments?  You can put extra light sources in by modifying the 
user_poly_color() function.

- Dave Stampe

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Wed Aug 12 18:25:01 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208122226.AA05678@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: sega circuit


HELP,
I have been talking to dave stampe and trying to get my interface working
with my toshiba glasses and rend386.

Firstly, anyone please tell me if they are using the circuit supplied with
rend386 (the quad XOR providing the ~400hz oscillator).

Has anyone used the circuit from the karazm ftp site (which uses a 555 timer)?

The problem is, my glasses work PERFECTLY with the segavga program (which
is supplied with 2 dual-image rendered scenes and creates a static 3d image),
from karazm.

But only 
he left eye works perfectly in rend386, the right eye regularly but
sparcely (i.e. once every 1/2 or 1/4 second) gets a flash of the left image
bleeding through.

I have tried flipping the image and slowing down the render code in version 3
and flipping it in version 4 demo but nothing works.

My impressions are that my hardware is faulty, and jim brain mentioned my
oscillator may not be clean, but why does it work perfectly every time
(without fail) using the segavga program then?

The only difference I can see in the software is that the segavga program
uses:

0 - clear
1 - left clear
2 - right clear
3 - black

and rend 386 uses:

0 - clear
1 - right clear
2 - black
3 - left clear

but this is used by another different program again and also by everyone else
using rend386. Changing these to match the segavga program didn't fix it
either?????!!???!??

So, I really am stumped, If worse comes to worse, I would like someone who
has a circuit that works to email me a diagram so I can build one from scratch
again. Otherwise, I think I'll join a monastry and gain enlightenment without
the use of VR (It takes a bit longer but maybe I could even learn to levitate)

Exasperated,
Andrew Longhorn.

And, NO, I don't feel like including my 3d .sig, It probably wouldn't work
either!

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 12 20:32:35 1992
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:32:17 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208130032.AA07343@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Sega parallel connection in 'v.r. playhouse' book

> From eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au Wed Aug 12 18:34:36 1992
> From: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
> Subject: Sega parallel connection in 'v.r. playhouse' book
> To: rend386@sunee
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I decided to have a look at this book (from the Waite group). It describes
> a parallel port connection to the Sega glasses but the description is very
> broken (I find it so). Anybody familiar with this connection method who can
> point me at a more complete source of info? I find it easier to spare one
> parallel port than one serial port on my machine.
> 
> -- 
> Regards
> 	Eyal Lebedinsky		eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au
> 

The description is (technically) correct, but you have to add those pesky 
power supplies!  I had a PC extension card I wired into for the +5 and +12,
but another way would be to get a 15V adapter, a 7805, and a 7812 regulator,
and roll your own.  Or get one of those surplus videogame, Coleco or
Commodore external power supplies: they have those voltages.  One 
warning: the unit doesn't switch the glasses off: leaving the glasses 
plugged in for a few days is a good way to fry the glasses (B-{((

- Dave Stampe

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Wed Aug 12 23:04:08 1992
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          Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:43:13 
From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 01 Jul 92 19:06
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
Subject: checking for next release

First, the rotation of the segments may be the inverse of what is
expected.  I'm checking it out, but I need to know: how many
people have written software that would be adversely affected by
a change in segment rotation effects?  Basically, the rotations
alone would be the same, but in combination they'd act differently.
Right now, the rotation order is YXZ in world->camera format, but
this might be wrong for segment rotations.
          My vote would be to implement this regardless of the
          current impact.  The overriding reason is for the support of
          a user-intutive product.  Picking up and twisting/spinning
          objects are something that we learn at a very early age.
          And the ability to map this to the virtual world is
          critical.

On the same topic, the angle directions are probably not correct
for the left-handed coordinate system.  Comments?  Problems if
one or more of pan, tilt, and roll are negated in the next release?
          My vote would be to implement this.  I think that all
          pointer drivers and object manipulation tasks can figure out
          which way REND386 works and just compensate.  BUT, this is
          something that everyone who uses the library is going to
          comment about and it will haunt you to your grave.  I would
          vote for the right hand rule that goes (please ignore if
          this is too detailed) -- stick your right hand thumb in the
          positive direction of any axis and then your fingers curl in
          the positive orientation direction (but a left hand rule
          will work just as well, also -- but I don't know of anyone
          using the left hand).

A final structural note.  REND386 places objects directly in the world,
keeping object coordinates for use in segment repositioning.  As you
know, most other systems only keep object coordinates, then combine
the object position and view matrix to render the object.
Now, to do this in REND386 would slow the system by about 20%, and
would not decrease memory requirements to speak of.  It might allow
the reuse of object representations, but probably not their recoloring.

Can anyone think of an overriding reason to go to this method?  It would
be transparent to older software, of course.  But it would be a lot of
work, and slow the system, so I need some damn good reasons first.
          Dave, Can you list the pros and cons (from the point of
          the developer using the library) of the two options?  I'm
          not sure that of all the ramifications and I would hate to
          do something like vote for a 20% reduction in speed if this
          just boiled down to a documentation issue.
          Thanks, James

- Dave Stampe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Aug 13 00:08:54 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208130408.AA06640@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  sega circuit

Hello,

  I am using the XOR cicuit and it works just fine with Rend386.  I created
a PCB circuit for the circuit as well.  All of which is documented in the
third issue of PCVR.

joe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Aug 13 00:12:07 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208130412.AA06652@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  sega wiring diagram

Your diagram for the Sega connector is correct.

joe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Aug 13 00:12:57 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208130413.AA06657@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Sorry.

Sorry, my mistake. The circuit and PCB is in Issue 2 of PCVR.  Discussion is in
issue 3.

joe

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Thu Aug 13 07:15:43 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208131117.AA07933@mehta>
To: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  sega circuit


There are actually 3 circuits (that I have found) that use the quad
2 input XOR gates. I implemented the one the steals the 10 v from the
DTR to power the circuit. using only that 4030 IC. I went all over it
with a CRO today against rend386 and segavga. As near as I could figure
they worked the same, except rend386 supplied an AC to DTR at 10(+/-)10 volts
(which was equalised to ~11v by the diode) and segavga supplied a constant
+11v.
   Other than that the signals were very close from either program and I
could only attribute the bad performance to inexact driving oscillator
(the wave being output varied slightly because of the rounded AC power
I think).

I am now just about done building a new circuit that drives the oscillator
from a 555 timer and trimmed to ~400Hz by a trimpot. This circuit has the
disadvantage of needing an external 9v to 10v supply, but I think it will
be better being adjustable and clean.

I'll let you know how I go. If the new circuit works, I'll hook them both
up and test the differences.

The new circuit I am building comes from 2 supplied in a file called
"circuit.lcd" at plaza.aarnet.edu.au and was drawn by Glen Harris
glen@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (James Cook Uni. of North Queensland).

I have to go to Melbourne tomorrow but I'll be get it going saturday and
let you all know.

Andrew (patience is a virtuality) Longhorn.

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Aug 13 08:57:21 1992
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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:57:03 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208131257.AA07323@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  sega circuit

Actually, the power source SHOULD be constant!  Maybe there's something else
going on here (serial port screwy, or something...)

- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Aug 13 20:36:55 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208140036.AA21734@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: logitech


Well, I just tried out the Logitech 6D mouse/ head tracker prototype.
Seems to work OK and best of all, YOU CAN USE IT WITH THE POWERGLOVE.
Almost no interaction.  You can also buy 2 Logitech systems and cascade
them (one as a mouse, the other as head tracker.  The unit has 25 
samples/sec with 2 meters range, 0.5 mm and 0.5 degree accuray as a head tracker and 67 cm range, 0.25 mm and 0.1 degree accuracy as amouse at 50 samples/
sec.  Not much glitching either.  

It seems to use comparative phase between receivers to get the angle
(since if you rotate more than +/- 70 degrees it gives false angles 
until you center it again).  The transmitter is a 25x20 cm triangle,
and the head tracker is a 6x8 cm triangle.  The cable on the head tracker
is a bit short, though (hopefully extensins will be available.

I would suggest one of 2 ways to use the head tracker: put it on front of 
the HMD and accept limited head rotation, or put the transmitter on the
ceiling, and the triange on top of the HMD.  This will give a position range 
limited by the ceiling height, but lets you turn around completely.

Impressions: Hard to tell from the prototype, but it looks good.  Low
glitching, light weight etc.  Only problem, this thing is NOISY!  The
transmitter elements were custom designed for high risetime pulses, and
the amount of 10-20 KHz this thing gives out will definitely keep insects
away (it gives me a headache at close range).  Anyway, this thing looks 
like a pretty useful head tracker, but the mouse will still tie you down.

So: should REND386 support this?  I understand PCVR is going to do something
on it next issue, but it might be worth building it in as the default 
head tracker and secondary manipulator.  Comments?  Should we be looking
at drivers installable later?

- Dave Stampe

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Fri Aug 14 02:30:25 1992
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:29:17 +0200
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199208140629.AA00879@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Various stuff...

Hi dudes and dudettes!

Just sat there rotating a few thangs on my screen with Rend386
(Qwik question: Why does my 486/33 flicker where my 386/20 does not?!?)
when I got a bunch of small ideas, questions and so on. Here goes:

* Anybody actually WRITTEN any neat software, or is everybody sitting
  spinning BBC.PLG around in the demo.exe program?
  I was thinking about writing a 3D breakout game or a virtual tetris,
  but I only have Microsoft compiler and can't use the libraries :-( 

* Anybody thinking of writing a 'mike the talking face' for rend386?
  (You all seen the SGI one, rite?)

* Anybody of Bernie and bunch think about adding SPECULAR REFLECTION to
  R386? I will tell you, that it will make things look A HELLUVA LOT MORE
  REAL. 
  You can use two approaches: CHEAT specular, where you simply raise the
  cosine lighting to a power (a lookup table naturally for speedz sake)
  OR:
  Find vector towards observer and vector towards light. Find the
  'halfway' vector between these, and do a dot product between this half
  way vector and the normal vector, raise this to a power (lookup table)
  and you are off!
  It'l probably slow down things slightly - but only for things that have
  specularity turned on, naturally. I bet you a few bux that it will look
  VERY MUCH MORE NATURAL!!!!

* The 'selected object grid': It annoys me to death. Why not just highlight
  the verticies, not the lines. Now I cant really SEE the object while it
  is selected - all I see is a massive blob of white. Also, please take
  something non-white. It totally destroys the 'effect'. Pulsating green
  would be neater :-)

All for now.

If anybody wanna see some of my "virtualities" check out the RayTracker
animations on phoenix.oulu.fi ;-)

/Z/Z

!! The ANSWER   : 42     ("Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" - Douglas Adams) 
!! The QUESTION : 0x2b | ~0x2b   ("Hamlet" - William Shakespear) | Dont Worry -
!! The EMAIL    : zap@lysator.liu.se  The PHONE: +46 16 96460    | Mail Zappie!


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Aug 14 10:18:04 1992
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:18:04 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208141418.AA25971@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, zap@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re:  Various stuff...

1)  Face stuff should probably wait till "rubber polys" are going
(whenever that may be).  These will be special polys joining 2 parts
of a segmented object, but may only be triangular (so they stay copanar).

2) Specular:  Wouldn't work except for objects with many small, flat polys.  
If you want it, modify user_poly_color() yourself.

3) Selected object: The outline could be made to cycle, I suppose.  But
highlighting vertices would be pretty useless.  Also, cycling loses one 
one palette slot (anyone have a favorite color they want to lose?)

- Dave Stampe

From tuggle@ist.ucf.edu  Fri Aug 14 14:07:59 1992
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:10:21 EDT
From: tuggle@ist.ucf.edu (Trenton Tuggle)
Message-Id: <9208141810.AA09767@sparc1.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: 6d tracker

Dave:
 
Here at the Visual Systems Lab, we've been using the Logitech 
Red Barron (6d mouse) as a head tracker for about 6 months 
now.  We mount the reciever on top of the helmet (we use VPL 
eyephones for virtual reality stuff) and the transmitter on a 
boom about a foot above the head.  It seems to work best 
around a foot.  Anyway, if you're looking for things to do, it 
would be intresting to see it.  It'd be good if you didn't tie 
the mouse in as a head tracker, but left it open, so maybe we 
could use it like a sort of 3d joystick to fly around the 
world...
 
On another note, when do you expect version 4 libraries?
 
 
type to you later,
Trent Tuggle
tuggle@ist.ucf.edu - Institute for Simulation & Training


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Aug 14 15:28:03 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208141927.AA18083@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, tuggle@ist.ucf.edu
Subject: Re:  6d tracker

I suppose you're using the head tracker in hi-res (mouse) mode?
And do you use 2 trackers to get the mouse, or seperate?

BTW, have you had any complaints/problems with the transmitter's sound?
It drives me up the wall in 5 minutes, unless I waer hearing protection.

- Dave Stampe

From tuggle@ist.ucf.edu  Fri Aug 14 15:39:32 1992
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:41:31 EDT
From: tuggle@ist.ucf.edu (Trenton Tuggle)
Message-Id: <9208141941.AA10099@sparc1.ist.ucf.edu>
To: dstamp@watserv1
Subject: Re:  6d tracker
Cc: rend386@sunee

>I suppose you're using the head tracker in hi-res (mouse) mode?
>And do you use 2 trackers to get the mouse, or seperate?
>BTW, have you had any complaints/problems with the transmitter's sound?
>It drives me up the wall in 5 minutes, unless I waer hearing protection.

yes, we have two of the mice, but have never used them concurrently.  
Really, ours are pretty quiet, they don't bother us at all, in fact, I
personally don't notice them!  Maybe the newer ones are louder for
increased range... (we got ours before they were sold!)

-Trent Tuggle
tugle@ist.ucf.edu


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Aug 14 15:51:26 1992
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:51:18 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208141951.AA20462@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, tuggle@ist.ucf.edu
Subject: Re:  6d tracker
Cc: rend386@sunee

> From tuggle@ist.ucf.edu Fri Aug 14 15:43:36 1992
> From: tuggle@ist.ucf.edu (Trenton Tuggle)
> To: dstamp@watserv1
> Subject: Re:  6d tracker
> Cc: rend386@sunee
> 
> >I suppose you're using the head tracker in hi-res (mouse) mode?
> >And do you use 2 trackers to get the mouse, or seperate?
> >BTW, have you had any complaints/problems with the transmitter's sound?
> >It drives me up the wall in 5 minutes, unless I waer hearing protection.
> 
> yes, we have two of the mice, but have never used them concurrently.  
> Really, ours are pretty quiet, they don't bother us at all, in fact, I
> personally don't notice them!  Maybe the newer ones are louder for
> increased range... (we got ours before they were sold!)
> 
> -Trent Tuggle
> tugle@ist.ucf.edu
> 
> 

What I have is a developer's kit for the 2D/6D mouse.  It has a white
plastic triangle transmitter, and two tiny receiver trianges, mounted
(one of them) on a gutted Logitech mouse.  Really early cases. And the
hardware isn't yet setup to use 2 together.  I notice the Powerglove
can be used with the head tracker, though.  In "head tracker" mode,
they claim 7' range with 50 dpi and 0.5 degree accuracy.  How does this
compare?

- Dave Stampe

From cph@uk.ac.leicp.chris_s  Fri Aug 14 16:46:13 1992
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From: cph@uk.ac.leicp.chris_s (Chris Hand {at home})
Reply-To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: logitech
Lines: 44
X-Mailer: PCElm 3.01

In message <9208140036.AA21734@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> you write:
>Well, I just tried out the Logitech 6D mouse/ head tracker prototype.
>Seems to work OK and best of all, YOU CAN USE IT WITH THE POWERGLOVE.
> [ ... ]
>I would suggest one of 2 ways to use the head tracker: put it on front of 
>the HMD and accept limited head rotation, or put the transmitter on the
>ceiling, and the triange on top of the HMD.  This will give a position range 
>limited by the ceiling height, but lets you turn around completely.

Virtual Research's "flight helmet" (sometimes) has a Logitech tracker
on it.  They mount the triangle on top.

Any idea what sort of prices they're asking for the tracker alone?
(Isn's there someone from Logitech on this list?)

>So: should REND386 support this?  I understand PCVR is going to do something
>on it next issue, but it might be worth building it in as the default 
>head tracker and secondary manipulator.  Comments?  Should we be looking
>at drivers installable later?

Maybe having "installable" drivers for I/O devices would be a good idea,
especially if people are going to start developing programs using the
REND386 libaries.  Having a generic interface to gloves/trackers would
enable us to use better low-end devices as (or if) they become available.

Anyone know how to write DOS device drivers? :-)



Chris Hand
cph@leicp.ac.uk


--
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From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Fri Aug 14 18:11:20 1992
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          Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:51:06 
From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:36
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
Subject: logitech

          The Logitech trackers!

          >The cable on the head tracker is a bit short, though
          >(hopefully extensins will be available.

          Hi Dave,
          Great to hear that you have a developer's kit!  My vote (as
          if my vote isn't biased) would be SUPPORT the Logitech
          tracker!  It is the least expensive, high quality tracker
          available.  Not only that, it is made by a very reputable
          company.

          Currently only the 3D Mouse developer's kit is available
          ($1000).  This allows developers to create applications
          for either the Head Tracker or the 3D Mouse.  In September
          we are releasing the Head Tracker product and the end user
          pricing should be $799.  Admittedly, that's a lot of money
          for the homebrew gang but it is less than 1/2 of the closest
          competition.  And in the case of one competitor it is 1/6th
          the price.  And just for you Dave, the Head Tracker will
          come with a 9.5' receiver cable.

          >I would suggest one of 2 ways to use the head tracker: put
          >it on front of the HMD and accept limited head rotation, or
          >put the transmitter on the ceiling, and the triange on top
          >of the HMD.  This will give a position range limited by the
          >ceiling height, but lets you turn around completely.

          The two modes you recommend seem to be how almost everyone
          is using the Head Tracker.  Either, the transmitter is
          mounted overhead (the immersion people) or it is mounted
          above the monitor (the stereoscopic glasses people).  In the
          former case, you are limited in roll and pitch, but you get
          360 degrees of yaw.  In the later case, since looking at
          your monitor has a line of sight restriction, the tracker
          isn't adding any additional constraints.

          >So: should REND386 support this?  I understand PCVR is
          >going to do something on it next issue, but it might be
          >worth building it in as the default head tracker and
          >secondary manipulator.  Comments?  Should we be looking at
          >drivers installable later?

          Joseph's PCVR Issue 5 will highlight head trackers and if
          all goes well there should be an article!  Of course I'd say
          go for it, but as an added incentive; one pointer driver
          will support both the Head Tracker and the 3D Mouse.  And
          these products are brand new, so there is lots to look
          forward to.
          Cheers, James

          P.S.  There is a 3D Mouse Forum on the Logitech Technical
          Support Bulletin Board Service (BBS).  The number is (510)
          795-0408 and it operates at 2400bps, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit
          and no parity.  When you finally get to the main prompt
          (only a hassle the first time), just type GO 3DMAIN.  There
          are drivers there for both the PC and the SGI platforms as
          well as some simple applications.  No need to write a driver
          for REND386, though, it is well under way.
- Dave Stampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Aug 14 23:13:42 1992
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:13:42 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208150313.AA08987@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Figure bug swatted


Found out why the demo crashes on some machines.  This only happens
when the figure file is present at the end of the file.  I was working
to reduce memory requirements, and it started to act up on my machine.
Random corruptions of data in memory, etc.  

Well, 4 hours later, it turns out that the stack was overflowing.  Bernie's
figure-loading code is very recursive, so I bumped the stack size to 10K
up from 4K.  Still over 150K of memory free after loading the room4.wld
(which only takes 50K of memory, BTW!).  Plenty of memory for new options, 
etc.

- DAve Stampe

From spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au  Sat Aug 15 00:56:05 1992
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	for @shark.mel.dit.csiro.au:rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca id AA04170; Sat, 15 Aug 92 14:55:44 +1000
From: spm@atmos.dar.csiro.au (McEWAN Shane)
Message-Id: <9208150455.AA04170@atmos.dar.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: room4.wld
To: dstamp@watserv1 (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 14:55:43 EST
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9208150313.AA08987@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>; from "Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng" at Aug 14, 92 11:13 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng wrote quite eloquently:
>
>
> Still over 150K of memory free after loading the room4.wld
>(which only takes 50K of memory, BTW!).  Plenty of memory for new options, 
>etc.
>
>- DAve Stampe
>

I've heard this room4.wld thing mentioned a number of times. What is it?
Are you planning to release it into the public domain?

And, while I'm here, has anybody got any nifty .fig or .plg files they want
to share? The metalman, bishban and the hand are getting a bit tired now. :-)
And the last time I sat down to design my own .plg file I got something that
barely resembled what I had on paper. *grin*

===============================================================================
Shane McEwan
CSIRO Division of          ______|    ______|    __  __|    ____  |    ____  |
Atmospheric Research      |          |              |      |      |   |      |
Aspendale, Victoria       |         ______  |       |       ___  _|   |      |
Australia  3195           |                 |       |      |     \    |      |
+61 3 586 7503           ________|  ________|   _______|  _|     _\   _______|
spm@dar.csiro.au
===============================================================================


From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Sun Aug 16 19:03:47 1992
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	id <AA06242>; Sat, 15 Aug 92 08:41:29 -0400
Via: uk.ac.leicester-poly; Sat, 15 Aug 1992 13:41:21 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <16928.9208151240@helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: room4.wld
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 13:40:56 BST
In-Reply-To: <9208150455.AA04170@atmos.dar.csiro.au>; from "McEWAN Shane" at Aug 15, 92 2:55 pm
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

McEWAN Shane said:
> 
> I've heard this room4.wld thing mentioned a number of times. What is it?
> Are you planning to release it into the public domain?

Get hold of demo4.zip from sunee.uwaterloo.ca in /pub/rend386.
You may have to comment out the line that includes metalman.fig
since it crashes on some machines.

> And, while I'm here, has anybody got any nifty .fig or .plg files they want
> to share? The metalman, bishban and the hand are getting a bit tired now. :-)
> And the last time I sat down to design my own .plg file I got something that
> barely resembled what I had on paper. *grin*

I sat down a couple of afternoons this week and wrote 2 programs for
generating .PLG files.  PRISM generates prisms, given the shape of the
end (ie. tell it 3 sides and you get a triangular prism).  It will also
do "fluted" prisms, whose ends are "stars" (it builds the ends out of polys
and triangles to prevent problems with concave polygons).  I also wrote BALL,
which generates approximations of spheres (plus one or two other shapes if
you tell it to use a small number of sides).  I will probably combine these
2 and add support for specifying colours and tiling patterns.

You can actually do a hell of a lot with a unit cube .PLG (the easiest one
to do by hand!), since you can scale and rotate in .FIG *and* .WLD files.
I built a roman temple from unitcubes (scaled & rotated), a triangular
prism (scaled & rotated) and some "cylinders" (20-sided prisms scaled
lengthways) for the columns.

I uploaded PRISM.ZIP (includes source) to /pub/incoming on sunee, but you
won't be able to download it until Bernie or Dave put a copy in /pub/rend386
or somewhere accessible.

The next thing I want to write is something to generate domes (just half
a sphere, but it'll need an inside too) and arches.  Then I can really
get building!


Chris


> 
> ===============================================================================
> Shane McEwan
> CSIRO Division of          ______|    ______|    __  __|    ____  |    ____  |
> Atmospheric Research      |          |              |      |      |   |      |
> Aspendale, Victoria       |         ______  |       |       ___  _|   |      |
> Australia  3195           |                 |       |      |     \    |      |
> +61 3 586 7503           ________|  ________|   _______|  _|     _\   _______|
> spm@dar.csiro.au
> ===============================================================================
> 
> 


-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@leicp.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            >> We *used* to be Leicester Polytechnic! <<

From 72330.770@compuserve.com  Sun Aug 16 19:23:32 1992
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	id <AA19670>; Sun, 16 Aug 92 19:23:32 -0400
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	id AA29501; Sat, 15 Aug 92 18:07:57 -0400
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:04:19 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72330.770@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee>
Subject: DevDrivers vs TSRs
Message-Id: <920815220418_72330.770_EHL57-1@CompuServe.COM>

> From: cph@@uk.ac.leicp.chris_s (Chris Hand {at home})
> Maybe having "installable" drivers for I/O devices would be a good idea,

Instead of using device drivers, which have to be installed at boot time via
CONFIG.SYS, consider using TSR programs instead. They can do the same thing,
but they can be installed/removed in a batch file used to run your Simulated
Reality program (rend386++).

A collection of TSR's could be provided to support different input/output
devices transparently to the main program. Thus a user with a regular mouse
could use the same program as a user with a PowerGlove or Logitech 3D mouse.

This is the direction we are working towards with the Group 3 (WE/WP) project
on Compuserve's ComArt forum. At present we are only discussing the methods. 

Jerry Isdale


From bailey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu  Sun Aug 16 20:52:11 1992
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From: bailey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (William Leeke)
Message-Id: <9208170052.AA18602@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: unsubscribe me
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 19:52:08 CDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

TWIMC,

Please unsubscribe me from the mailing list.

By the way, have you thought about an alt.rend386 news group. You probably
have but there are more and more people who have access to news.

Later,
Bill
-- 
On Perot quitting the race...
"What do you expect from a pig... but a grunt."
On the presidential race...
"You know you're going to get a kick in the butt, its a matter of choosing
the smallest boot."
bailey@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Aug 16 22:58:40 1992
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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 22:58:15 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208170258.AA25834@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: 72330.770@CompuServe.COM, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  DevDrivers vs TSRs

> From 72330.770@compuserve.com Sun Aug 16 19:24:14 1992
> From: Jerry Isdale <72330.770@CompuServe.COM>
> To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee>
> Subject: DevDrivers vs TSRs
> 
> > From: cph@@uk.ac.leicp.chris_s (Chris Hand {at home})
> > Maybe having "installable" drivers for I/O devices would be a good idea,
> 
> Instead of using device drivers, which have to be installed at boot time via
> CONFIG.SYS, consider using TSR programs instead. They can do the same thing,
> but they can be installed/removed in a batch file used to run your Simulated
> Reality program (rend386++).
> 
> A collection of TSR's could be provided to support different input/output
> devices transparently to the main program. Thus a user with a regular mouse
> could use the same program as a user with a PowerGlove or Logitech 3D mouse.
> 
> This is the direction we are working towards with the Group 3 (WE/WP) project
> on Compuserve's ComArt forum. At present we are only discussing the methods. 
> 
> Jerry Isdale
> 
> 

Actually, it's probably better to use:
- several classes of interface support in REND386: 2D, 3D, 6D, keys, etc.
- a loaded program (tiny model?) loaded at runtime to support the device.
  This will be as good as a TSR, and less problems with removal later.

Now, TSR's will work, of course, but the first thing you have to do is
to make a framework so new drivers are easy to create.  Same with the
runtime-loading (like Borland's BGI) but now you can have a REND386
configuration file, video drivers, and device drivers too.

- Dave Stampe

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Mon Aug 17 06:58:49 1992
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 21:01:09 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208171101.AA11430@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: timing (again)


ARRRRAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I built a total different circuit and it doesn't WORK!

It has a 555 timer as a clock with a trimpot to set the frequency,
I set it to 400 +/- 1 Hz and set it up.

segavga runs it perfectly.

rend386 totally spacks!!!??!?!?!

Could this be my subconscience trying to tell me something?
(insert twilite zone music here)

I am collecting the info on Hardware/Circuits/etc and will post soon.

Meanwhile, Can we get 2 glove support for rend386? (this would be included
if the PGSI was to be supported) I have a malfunctioning glove that I want
to butcher and use as a crude head tracker.

ARRRRRRGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

Andrew Longhorn.





























P.S. I feel a little better now

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Aug 17 08:55:46 1992
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 08:55:29 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208171255.AA13504@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  timing (again)

What spped of computer are you using?  

Once there's a device on the market (in my hands, that is) that supports
2 gloves (I have yet to believe that one) I'll put something in.  Then
again, the code is simple: you should be able to do it yourself.

- Dave Stampe

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Tue Aug 18 23:25:25 1992
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 13:27:32 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208190327.AA25421@mehta>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: shutter problems - info
Content-Type: X-sun-attachment

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OK I am running:

(a) Toshiba shutter glasses
(b) I have built 2 circuits (see below, and attached).
(c) on a 486DX/33MHz)
(d) with EAGLE (OZ made) 1M VGA card (with emulates anything apparently).
(e) the responses I got were:
       - both circuit work fantastically with the segavga program.
       - with rend386 and:
          -- (file SEGA.circuit) the 4030 only circuit, supplied with rend386,
             the left eye image is great (a little more pronounced flicker)
               but no leak through of the right image,
             the right eye gets "flashes" of the left eye image every
               few fractions of a second (more noticable when you zoom in or
               out to a degree that makes the image turn 2D again.
          -- (file circuit.lcd) the 555 timer circuit #1 (both DTR and RTS)
             the left shutter does nothing or blanks or goes black,
             the right eye behaves the same as in the previous circuit.

I have included copies of both circuits, the first is the one supplied
with rend386 and I can't remember the source of the second but you can contact
the author via email.

I now have to get stuck into my thesis so I can't debug for a while.

Andrew Longhorn.

P.S. calling james barnes and others who have noticed ANY peculiar behaviour
please mail a similar message to:

cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk

and the mailing list.

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(3=,"JR MG=)M
 
end

From ADP05@msu.edu  Wed Aug 19 13:15:07 1992
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 13:14:55 EDT
From: "Hiawatha.Battle" <ADP05@msu.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Compiling devel3

----
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: ADP05  <Hiawatha.Battle>
Subject: Compiling devel3

    Date: Aug 19 92 Wed   1:09pm ET
    From: Hiawatha.Battle@MSUAIS
      To:  rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
      CC:
     BCC:  HIAWATHA.BATTLE
 Subject:  Compiling devel3
 ============================================================================


>  I am having great difficulty making heads or tails of this.              <
>  It seems that certain members are missing. Could you please tell         <
>  me how to get a list of all the files I need to compile this             <
>  program.  I am using Borland C++ V2.0.                                   <
>                                                                           <
>  Thanks in advance for your help.                                         <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
>                                                                           <
************************************************************************
*  Hiawatha Battle, Jr.             You've got to stand for something  *
*  Programmer/Consultant             or you'll fall for anything.      *
*  AIS Help and Support Center                                         *
*  Michigan State University                o              ??          *
*  BITNET:  ADP05@MSU.BITNET               < >            o ?          *
*  INTERNET: ADP05@MSU.EDU                 / \         /\_/>           *
*  (517) 353-4420  Ext. 293                                            *
************************************************************************

From ADP05@msu.edu  Wed Aug 19 14:18:52 1992
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	id <AA01560>; Wed, 19 Aug 92 14:18:52 -0400
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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 14:13 EDT
To: rend386@sunee
From: "Hiawatha.Battle" <ADP05@msu.edu>


   I am having great difficulty making heads or tails of this.
   It seems that certain members are missing. Could you please tell
   me how to get a list of all the files I need to compile this
   program.  I am using Borland C++ V2.0.

   Thanks in advance for your help.








************************************************************************
*  Hiawatha Battle, Jr.             You've got to stand for something  *
*  Programmer/Consultant             or you'll fall for anything.      *
*  AIS Help and Support Center                                         *
*  Michigan State University                o              ??          *
*  BITNET:  ADP05@MSU.BITNET               < >            o ?          *
*  INTERNET: ADP05@MSU.EDU                 / \         /\_/>           *
*  (517) 353-4420  Ext. 293                                            *
************************************************************************

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Wed Aug 19 18:14:11 1992
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	id <AA03966>; Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:14:11 -0400
Received: from mehta (mehta.anu.edu.au) by anu.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA00740; Thu, 20 Aug 92 08:13:57 EST
Received: by mehta (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA08782; Thu, 20 Aug 92 08:16:26 EST
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 08:16:26 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208192216.AA08782@mehta>
To: cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: sega circuit


I have also had these messages coming my way,

-- From James_Barnes@logitech.com Wed Aug 19 11:31:04 1992
-- From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
-- Date: 18 Aug 92 18:06
-- To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au
-- Subject: Glasses!
-- Content-Length: 765
-- 
--           Hello,
--           I have been following your trials with interest, until I
--           jumped into the same boat.  Now I'm sinking too!  A friend
--           just built the 4030 schematic.
-- 
--           I am noticing exactly the same thing, I think.  The left eye
--           is fairly clean, but the right eye allows the left image to
--           jump in every second or so.  Even when the -r option is used
--           to switch the left and right eyes from the software point of
--           view, the right eye is still screwed up.  It seems to say
--           that there is something wrong with the interface design or
--           the way REND386 is interfacing ( what else! ;-) ).  Have you
--           had any luck in isolating the problem??
--           Thanks much, James
-- 


and he wrote again:


-- From James_Barnes@logitech.com Wed Aug 19 11:31:09 1992
-- From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
-- Date: 18 Aug 92 18:22
-- To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au
-- Subject: More testing
-- Content-Length: 370
-- 
--           I have also just tried demo4 and got exactly the same
--           results that you reported.
-- 
--           The left eye is very clean, no flickering.  But the right
--           eye is really bad.  Both the left and the right image seem
--           to be coming through.
-- 
--           Hmmmm....the plot thickens.
--           Cheers, James
--           james_barnes@logitech.com
-- 


And I received another one from someone else this morning:


-- From eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au Wed Aug 19 17:41:10 1992
-- From: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
-- Subject: Re: shutter problems - info
-- To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn)
-- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 17:38:39 EST
-- X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
-- Content-Length: 541
-- 
-- Hi,
-- 
-- I use the 4030-only circuit and have the same problems as you do. I have
-- the Sega glasses. My machine is 386/40. I checked the cuircuit on a 'scope
-- and it seems to be up to spec (I slowed the osc. down to 400Hz from the
-- 2KHz to reduce leakage. The .01u cap is now .05u in my curcuit).
-- 
-- Segavga works great. My own software works fine. demo4 fails with right eye
-- problems. Without glasses the left image looks darker (I use cube.plg) than
-- the right, is this the case with you too?
-- 
-- -- 
-- Regards
-- 	Eyal Lebedinsky		eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au
-- 

It seems as though something is DEFINITELY a little screwy here.

Andrew Longhorn.

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Aug 20 00:11:25 1992
Received: from watserv1.uwaterloo.ca by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA06579>; Thu, 20 Aug 92 00:11:25 -0400
Received: by watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA01024>; Thu, 20 Aug 92 00:11:24 -0400
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 00:11:24 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208200411.AA01024@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Sega problems & new


I hear ya all about the Sega problems: but I can't get it to act up
on my machine (or Bernie's) at all!  If I could get it to act up,
I could fix it.  So all I can do right now is poke around with the code
and hope for the best.

Some interesting things seem in store for the "real" release 4.  One 
of these is runtime-loadable video and device drivers, and configuration
files.  I just got the video driver interface going tonight.  It's much
like the Borland BGI driver, in that the driver file is basically a
.COM file in disguise.  I plan to have at least a 320x200x256, 320x200x16,
and a 640x200x256 for side-by-side stereo.

- Dave STampe

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Aug 20 09:11:35 1992
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From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208201311.AA20161@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: PCVR


I'm trying to get the specs on the HMD that PCVR has been covering in
thier last issues.  If I'm going to support it with the next release,
I need to know the mechanism in the next day or two.  Otherwise
it'll have to be a non-standard.

- Dave Stampe

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Aug 20 11:25:14 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208201525.AA20638@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  PCVR

Dave,

  I am working on the previous information that you requested and will have it
for you soon.

  The HMD works using a single VGA card and a small interface circuit based
at one of the hardware ports.  It works by setting the Rend386 Sega interface 
on and specifying a function that manipulates the interface circuit.  

  Basically, the only thing that must be included is my switching routine.
Let me know what you need ( the routine or more information ).

joe

From broehl  Thu Aug 20 13:08:17 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9208201708.AA11545@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Sega Glasses with REND386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 13:08:16 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Dave and I are trying to isolate the problems people have been reporting
with using the Sega glasses with REND386.

If you are *successfully* using the Segas with REND386, please send mail
to Dave (dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca).

If you are *not* able to get the Segas working, please send mail to Dave
specifying what kind of Sega driver circuit you're using, including which
pins and which port you're hooking up to on the PC.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Aug 20 18:02:44 1992
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:02:38 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208202202.AA21165@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: dstamp@watserv1, gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  PCVR

I'd like to see the switching routine if possible.  Also, how well do
the cards drive the displays?  The video driver interface is going,
but I have yet to finalize the pointer device, head tracker, and
HMD setup data.  All this will go into the .cfg file.  Don't know yet
how the Sega driver will support your thing, but we plan to make it
possible to set port address, bits, polarity etc. in the .cfg file
as well.  How does that fit?

- DAve Stampe

From tuggle@ist.ucf.edu  Mon Aug 24 23:45:00 1992
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Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 18:43:52 EDT
From: tuggle@ist.ucf.edu (Trenton Tuggle)
Message-Id: <9208242243.AA16792@sparc1.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: logitech thing.

Well, I'm back, and I've been thinking about things and
I wanted to tell you to make sure that rend386 doesn't
go entirely to the logitech thing.  sure, the mouse is
cool, but don't stop supporting the glove, etc, because
the average person won't have the mouse.  I've got two
here at work, but in the game I'm designing under rend-
386, I'm not planning on 6d mouse support because the
average user won't have one.

for now,
Trent Tuggle
tuggle@ist.ucf.edu

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Tue Aug 25 11:31:22 1992
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From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:08:46 BST
Message-Id: <12638.9208251508@helios.leicp.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: enhancements

Suggestion for addition to REND386, Number 14,678:

	Make the code for loading objects etc. inspect
	the environment variable R386_OBJPATH (or something)
	to find which directories in the file system it should
	look in.

	That way we can keep all our objects in one place
	(or several) and re-use the same .PLG, .FIG (etc) files
	instead of having multiple copies all over the place.


chris

From ltech1!geek!geek.lodden.com!wjyoung@heifetz.msen.com  Tue Aug 25 23:42:38 1992
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Date:      Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:24:13 EDT
From: "William J. Young" <wjyoung@geek.lodden.com>
Message-Id: <2a9af95e.geek@geek.lodden.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject:   remove me

Please remove me from this list.  Thanks.


-- 
William J. Young                                     Telephone: 1-517-435-3379
wjyoung@lodden.com                                   Address: 2447 Glidden Rd  
                                                              Beaverton, MI
                                                              48612
                                                           


From dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 26 09:02:55 1992
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 09:02:53 -0400
From: Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng <dstamp@watserv1>
Message-Id: <9208261302.AA16152@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee, tuggle@ist.ucf.edu
Subject: Re:  logitech thing.

> From tuggle@ist.ucf.edu Mon Aug 24 23:46:36 1992
> From: tuggle@ist.ucf.edu (Trenton Tuggle)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: logitech thing.
> 
> Well, I'm back, and I've been thinking about things and
> I wanted to tell you to make sure that rend386 doesn't
> go entirely to the logitech thing.  sure, the mouse is
> cool, but don't stop supporting the glove, etc, because
> the average person won't have the mouse.  I've got two
> here at work, but in the game I'm designing under rend-
> 386, I'm not planning on 6d mouse support because the
> average user won't have one.
> 
> for now,
> Trent Tuggle
> tuggle@ist.ucf.edu
> 

I'm not crazy! (B-{))  Actually, the upcoming release supports installable
drivers for video and devices, so you can plug the Logitech in as a 6D
pointing device AND use it as a mouse.  No, I haven't written a driver yet.

The following driver types are supported:
-Video driver: does all the graphics functions, so you can write drivers
for weird video devices, higher resolution screens, switched VGA cards,
Private Eyes, etc.

-Pointer driver: read as a 2D(mouse) as well as 6D pointer.  Currently
the internal mouse and powerglove drivers are used, and a sample 3D
pointer using the mouse is supplied.

Head tracker:  uses a pointer driver as a head tracker: should make it easy
to use the Logitech for this, or any other device you can think of.

Switching driver:  Does what the Sega driver does, or can switch other
things.

The internal glove and Sega drivers now let you do total port and bit
remapping of their interfaces.

Full split-screen, seperate VGA card, etc. stereo is supported, including
"rotated" view planes, so you can tilt your HMD displays to get more
peripheral vision.

Segments have been highly redefined: I'll wait for feedback on this one.

- Dave Stampe

From mthardy@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 26 09:11:59 1992
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Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 09:11:56 -0400
From: "Michael T. Hardy" <mthardy@watcgl>
Message-Id: <9208261311.AA11263@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Please remove me from this list.

Please remove me from this list. Thank-you.

--
Michael Hardy                 |          mthardy@watcgl.waterloo.edu 
Computer Graphics Laboratory  |          mthardy@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca
University Of Waterloo        | ** Stuck in the void between undergaduate  ** 
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada     | ** and grad student.                       **


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Aug 26 11:18:09 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9208261517.AA00986@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: dstamp@watserv1, rend386@sunee, tuggle@ist.ucf.edu
Subject: Re:  logitech thing.

Dave,

  Looks good to me.  I was going to ask about the head tracker as I will have
two different head trackers in the next PCVR.  As I have said before, I 
think it is good to redefine things now before any of us start to really 
use Rend386 as I intend to do in the next couple of months.

joe

From BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET  Wed Aug 26 13:54:57 1992
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 <01GO1FVV6Y6O0003Q4@SNYCANVA.BITNET>; Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:55 EST
Date: 	Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:55:00 -0400
From: BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET
Subject: Ye Olde .DXF thing!
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GO1FVV6Y6O0003Q4@SNYCANVA.BITNET>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vms-To: bitnet%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Howdy
        Well I have been playing around with cadkey lately and found a
Converter from cadkey's CADL files to .DXF files. So What I don't have yet is
the .DXF to .PLG. I remembered somebody posting here that they were working on
one and needed data. I now have an abundance of data to send out. I jus don't
know where to send it! If whomever it was that was working on that converter
could post an address and maybe an update on the progress :-) I would be happy
to work with ya to get this done. BTW anybody using cadkey that wants to know
how to convert CADL files to DXF send me e-mail and I'll send you instructions
or where to find the converter on your cadkey disks.

Tanx in advans
Stephen Palm
Barber1@snycanva

        And to all other intelligent life out there "The trick is to bang the
rocks together guy's"
                      - Douglas Adams-
                Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy!
                _________________________________

From tkl@inel.gov  Thu Aug 27 10:09:17 1992
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 08:09:09 MDT
Message-Id: <9208271409.AA28132@mica.inel.gov>
To: rend386@sunee
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: sega circuit
Cc: tkl@inel.gov

>I have also had these messages coming my way,
>

stuff deleted
Andrew:

With respect to the "right eye bleeding problem."  After a much closer look
at my own setup (the 4030 circuit on a PS/2 70/16 running REND386) I do see
bleeding (and glitches in the right eye).  In particular, if you close your
left eye, I can see the" L" in the left screen AND the" R" in the right
screen.  If you close your right eye, the left image is clear and you do
not see anything but the" L".  Also see the same thing on a 486/33.  It
seemed to be more pronounced on the 486 machine but that may be due to my
increased awareness of the bleeding.

We are building a new 4030 circuit with a trim pot to see if the problem
persists.  Should get this done and tested today (8/27/92).  Will keep you
posted.
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Thu Aug 27 20:41:01 1992
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 10:17:46 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208280017.AA11048@mehta>
To: tkl@inel.gov, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: segavga program

-- From tkl@inel.gov Fri Aug 28 09:16:18 1992
-- To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
-- 
-- >I got it from the
-- >
-- >plaza.aarnet.edu.au
-- >
-- >archive in directory
-- >
-- >/graphics/graphics/virtual-worlds/sega
-- >
-- >and there is an unpacked directory there too.
-- >the program comes with 2 examples mball.img and desk1.img.
-- >I only got the program to try and fix the glasses circuit,
-- >I have only been using them as a test, I haven't tried making my own.
-- >
-- >Andrew
-- 
-- Thanks much, I'll try plaza.aarnet ......
-- 
-- BTW, I got a new (my third) 4030 Quad XOR circuit running this afternoon. 
-- Tried several different caps (in the pin 11-12 to pin 3-6-8 loop) to try
-- and "minimize" the right eye bleed & shakes.  My original circuit diagram
-- (obtained from Karzam) showed a 0.01 uF cap.  I tried 0.05 uF, 0.027-,
-- 0.025-, 0.022-, and 0.0185 uF.  The problem persists but the 0.0184 uF
-- seems to be a little better than any of the others.  I begin to believe
-- that there is a problem (vertical retrace?) of some sort in rend386 but
-- ....... why don't Dave and Bernie see it?  Seems everyone else does.
--
-- ---------------------------------------------------
-- T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
-- P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
-- Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
-- Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
-- INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
-- ---------------------------------------------------
-- 

I hope we can work this out. I have a feeling the rend386 timing is wrong.
Since (as you will see) the image is so astoundingly perfect with segavga.

BTW: compile it with the -DREVERSE flag on or your image will be inside out.
     (check the makefile).

So far I have established that the 0,1,2 & 3 are set differently with segavga
and rend386, (i think rend386 uses 1 or 2 for the right eye but segavga
uses 3) this shouldn't effect it.

I tried stealing some timing code from segavga into rend386 (version 3) to
fix the problem, swapped some orderings, inserted vsyncs() etc, but any
improvement in the right eye generally blew the left eye out of sync.

The thing is that in both v3 and 4 or rend386 the image seems to bleed through
regularly but not in every cycle, more like once every 5-10 frames.

One thing I did notice that I thought was strange was when I did put a few
vsync()s in the code just before switching the glasses, it didn't seem to do
much until I loaded in metalman.fig and ROTATED him. I found there was a
direct and re-producable correlation between the angle I rotated him and the
frequency of the bleeds. In some positions I can even make the right image
fade in and out entirely. (so metalman disappears entirely).

Lastly, segavga seems to go:

wait for vertical retrace;
black right eye;
show left page;
wait for vertical retrace;
black left eye;
show right page;

whereas rend386 goes:

if right is shown
  show leftimage
  set phase left
else
  show right image
  set phase right
end
outportb phase (meaning black out opposite eye).

which means rend386 starts to flip the image then flips the glasses
where segavga does this in the opposite order, I would think that if this
was the problem, then both eyes would have a degraded image and I flipped
the code order to check it, sure enough, it made it worse.

Can anybody tell us what's going on? and why their circuit/rend386 combo
works?

Andrew

From cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk  Fri Aug 28 04:49:15 1992
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From: Chris Hand <cph@leicester-poly.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <7571.9208280845@helios.leicp.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: segavga program
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 9:45:56 BST
In-Reply-To: <9208280017.AA11048@mehta>; from "andrew longhorn" at Aug 28, 92 10:17 am
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

If the problem with rend386 is because the machine has *so much* to do
as well as switching the LCD glasses, then maybe we could have a
slightly modified circuit that switches the glasses automatically (free
running).  Then we feed logic-level versions of these 2 signals (2nd is
not necessarily just the inverse of the first) into an input port and
use them to trigger two interrupt-service routines, each of which
switches the current page for display.

Would this help, or am I missing the point?

Chris


From tkl@inel.gov  Fri Aug 28 12:42:52 1992
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 10:42:22 MDT
Message-Id: <9208281642.AA19136@mica.inel.gov>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: segavga program

>-- From tkl@inel.gov Fri Aug 28 09:16:18 1992
>-- To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )

STUFF DELETED
>-- 
>
>I hope we can work this out. I have a feeling the rend386 timing is wrong.
>Since (as you will see) the image is so astoundingly perfect with segavga.
>
>BTW: compile it with the -DREVERSE flag on or your image will be inside out.
>     (check the makefile).
>
>So far I have established that the 0,1,2 & 3 are set differently with segavga
>and rend386, (i think rend386 uses 1 or 2 for the right eye but segavga
>uses 3) this shouldn't effect it.
>
>I tried stealing some timing code from segavga into rend386 (version 3) to
>fix the problem, swapped some orderings, inserted vsyncs() etc, but any
>improvement in the right eye generally blew the left eye out of sync.
>
>The thing is that in both v3 and 4 or rend386 the image seems to bleed through
>regularly but not in every cycle, more like once every 5-10 frames.
>
>One thing I did notice that I thought was strange was when I did put a few
>vsync()s in the code just before switching the glasses, it didn't seem to do
>much until I loaded in metalman.fig and ROTATED him. I found there was a
>direct and re-producable correlation between the angle I rotated him and the
>frequency of the bleeds. In some positions I can even make the right image
>fade in and out entirely. (so metalman disappears entirely).
>
>Lastly, segavga seems to go:
>
>wait for vertical retrace;
>black right eye;
>show left page;
>wait for vertical retrace;
>black left eye;
>show right page;
>
>whereas rend386 goes:
>
>if right is shown
>  show leftimage
>  set phase left
>else
>  show right image
>  set phase right
>end
>outportb phase (meaning black out opposite eye).
>
>which means rend386 starts to flip the image then flips the glasses
>where segavga does this in the opposite order, I would think that if this
>was the problem, then both eyes would have a degraded image and I flipped
>the code order to check it, sure enough, it made it worse.
>
>Can anybody tell us what's going on? and why their circuit/rend386 combo
>works?
>
>Andrew

Andrew:
Got the code from plaza.aarnet.edu.au!  Thanks.  

I also noted the ordering you discuss above but ...  I got a pair of
Tohsiba glasses yesterday (they are MUCH nicer that the SEGA glasses) and
got the latest circuit working (doesn't have the 555 timer in it).  Using
this circuit, the Tohsiba glasses work with rend386 but I still have the
blurry, bleeding right eye problem.  The segavga code works fine but
doesn't seem to work with my current circuit/Tohsiba glasses.  The lenses
don't shutter at all.  I will have to look at the plaza\.. circuit diagram
and code in more detail and compare it to the what I'm using to determine
the problem.

I've lost track which circuit are you using?
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From randysh@microsoft.com  Fri Aug 28 16:17:03 1992
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From: Randy Shedden <randysh@microsoft.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 92 13:05:12 PDT
Subject: Rend386 on local bus/accellerator cards

Has anybody tried Rend386 on a local bus system and/or with
a Windows Accelerator VGA card?  Any caveats, pointers,
suggestions, preferences, whatever would be appreciated.
Also, what kind of effect (if any) does this have with the
SEGA LCD shutter glasses?


From tkl@inel.gov  Fri Aug 28 16:35:31 1992
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:50:47 MDT
Message-Id: <9208281850.AA21381@mica.inel.gov>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au, rend386@sunee
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re:segavga program
Cc: tkl@inel.gov

Andrew:
Forget my previous message ;-{.  Apparently I don't know COM1 from COM2. 
Once I told segavga where the glasses REALLY were everything works fine
with my circuit.  Like you, I see no bleeding or right eye problems with
segavga!
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Fri Aug 28 19:13:17 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208282315.AA23827@mehta>
To: tkl@inel.gov, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: segavga program


I am using both the circuit that comes with rend386 (the well known one you're
using) and I also built the first 555 timer circuit as I thought the timing
could be better set using it's trimpot. (I got it to about 400+/-3 Hz).

My guess is that since the image isn't totally merged on the right eye, but
periodically flicks up, there must be some time-dependent interrupt or some
PC hardware/software dependent thing that gets in the way every x msecs.

I remember running the program in -r (or whatever reverse eyes mode is) to
see if it was page dependent. (-r mode swaps the left and right pages as
apposed to segavga which switches the eye constants). I don't remember the
findings of this, but you can easily try it.

So far, the main pointer falls to rend386 (sorry) but my circuit (the one
supplied with rend386) works perfectly with segavga.

Andy the Roo.

P.S. Bernie or Dave, I expect you have checked out the segavga program by now?
Are you both using the EXACT circuit you supply with rend386? The bleedthrough
I get in version 4 makes it too subtractive that I loose all depth cues.

P.P.S. Otherwise I love rend386, hope we can figure this out soon.

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Fri Aug 28 19:41:19 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208282343.AA23831@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee, glove-list@win30.nas.nasa.gov
Subject: re:drivers and support


I will be butchering one of my not-100% gloves to make a crude
head-tracker (as discussed before by several people). Will there be support
for this as well? (It should be only a minor addition, but would be good
as a standard driver).

I was thinking the only real logical choices would be all with senders mounted
on the glasses:

1) triangle on ceiling:
     + very good horizontal plane head movement tracking. (x,y)
     + crude head rotation (rot)
     + semi-useful duck/tippytoe info (z)
     - may be some interference with glove tracking.
   head rotation can be simulated be other means using the other triangle
   locations (see below), but maybe this would be good if we also used
   some of the finger sensors as head tilt measurements?

2) triangle to either side:
     + very good tracking fwd/bwd and up/down (x,y)
     + crude head tilt (fwd/bwd)
     - not as reliable side to side tracking (z)
     - some other problems and interference again
   probably not my choice.

3) triangle behind head:
     + very good side-side/up-down head tracking. (x,y)
     + crude head tilt (side/side)
     + least interference with glove
     - not as good fwd/bwd tracking (z).
   head rotation into screen can be crudely simulated by assuming that head
   will always be rotated toward screen regardless of position of head. With
   this assumption eye locations can be easily guessed. A drawback of this is
   that if you don't change position but rotate your head, the guessing factor
will move your view the opposite way.


I think the most important points are (in order):
   1) side to side parallax    (to keep objects stationary)
       - most common movement to see around objects and line things up in
         the z-plane
   2) distance from screen     (to stop objects stretching)
       - to improve solid world feeling
   3) vertical movement        (again to stop objects moving)
       - not used as much because people tend not to duck or stretch to see
         under and over things
   4) head tilt (side/side)    (for stereoscopic viewing)
       - important when using shutter glasses, but our brains seem to be able
         to fuse the image fairly well from upto a maximum of 20-30 degrees
         either side.
   5) head rotation            (image appearance)
       - in most cases can be safely simulated with head position (rock from
         side to side while reading this).
   6) head dip (fwd/bwd)
       - probably not used much (except to look at keys but then you aren't
         looking at the screen). Safely simulated by head position.

Looking at the positions of the triangle and the criteria above, position 1
seems to cover 1,2 & 3 best, and with some head tilt measure added would
probably be the best (as long as the interference wasn't too great).
And I think position 3 would be second best, for what it looses in fwd/bwd
tracking, it gains in head tilt measurement. (which position 1 can't do).

Any ideas?

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Fri Aug 28 21:42:51 1992
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:43:42 EDT
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Sega thing


We'll be putting out a new demo Real Soon Now that uses a different Sega
switching method.  It relies on the fact that there are 2 or 3 interrupts per frame to switch the video page in advance of the synchronized Sega switch.

Keep in mind the difference between REND386 and the stereo viewing program
you're comparing it to: REND386 >cannot< sit around and wait for the sync
signal to switch pages-- it must draw all the time, and handle page switching 
and Sega switching via interrupts.  If this new method doesn't work, I'll have to find a system locally that shows the problem.

- Dave STampe


From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Fri Aug 28 21:48:35 1992
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:49:27 EDT
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Address change.


Well, I finally finished the move.  Here's more than you ever wanted to know
about how to reach me:

Email:
  Direct: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
  Bounce: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (temporary)
          dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Snailmail:
Dave Stampe
55 Oakmount Rd.  Apt. 1108
Toronto, Ont.  M6P 2M5

Voice: 416-762-4212

- Dave STampe

From drl@csd4.csd.uwm.edu  Sat Aug 29 16:54:34 1992
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From: Daniel R La Coursiere <drl@csd4.csd.uwm.edu>
Message-Id: <9208292054.AA06374@csd4.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: 
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 15:54:28 CDT

Please remove me from the mailing list.

thanx
daniel r. lacoursiere

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Sun Aug 30 01:47:36 1992
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Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 07:47:21 +0200
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199208300547.AA01158@maskros.lysator.liu.se>
To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu's message of Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:43:42 EDT <9208290142.AA24788@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Sega thing

Hi!

About  the sega flippery problem....

are you using the beam-synchronized interrupt to do the flip? If not
this would be the ideal place to do it!

Just my 0.0000001 milliSKR worth.

/Z

From broehl  Mon Aug 31 12:18:53 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9208311618.AA11558@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Update demo4 now available on sunee
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 12:18:53 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

A new version of demo4 is now available on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the
pub/rend386 directory.

The main purpose of this mini-release of the demo is to try to solve the
problems people have reported with the Sega glasses.  Please let Bernie
and Dave know if this version solves the problems you've been having.

You can reach us at broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca and dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
(Dave's mail will automatically forward to his new address).

There have been several other important changes since the first demo4
release.  The most significant is that we have now converted over to a
standard left-hand coordinate system rather than the hybrid system we
had been using previously.  This means you must change the rotation angles
in any .wld and .fig files you create to match the new system; there's a file
called "coords.doc" included in the demo4.zip file that describes the
coordinate system we now use.

This version also supports a configuration file, called REND386.CFG, which
can contain (among other things) configuration parameters for both the Sega
glasses and the Nintendo PowerGlove.  We also support a REND386 environment
variable to give the location of files.

We've also started to implement support for loadable device drivers, for both
video cards and pointing devices.

And yes, the bugs with the '*' and 'v' commands have been fixed. 

Please let us know of any problems you encounter with this demo release.
Once we've solved any reported problems, we'll release the latest version
of the development libraries and documentation.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu  Mon Aug 31 12:53:09 1992
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From: "Michael L. Kaufman" <kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu>
Message-Id: <199208311653.AA15816@delta.eecs.nwu.edu>
Subject: Question about Toshiba 3D Glasses
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 11:52:56 CDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL8]

Has anyone used the Toshiba 3d Glasses? I have not been able to find one of
the Sega ones, but I heard that these were compatible. Is this true? On the
other hand, does anyone know where I can order the Sega ones from?

Thanks, Michael




From zap@lysator.liu.se  Mon Aug 31 16:59:16 1992
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From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199208312058.AA26719@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu's message of Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:43:42 EDT <9208290142.AA24788@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Sega thing

Hi!

Somehing is really really fucked with the PAGE FLIPPING. I am not saying
a thing about the SEGA switching coz I dont own any glasses. But with
demo4 room4.wld -x running I can, on my DELL 486/33 see the following
things:

"Half screens" flipping, e.g. pages swapped in before they are drawn. By
just using up-down arrow in the default view in room4.wld I get every now
and then clearly blue sky/green ground see thru for a nanosecond or two.
Page switches seem to occur at the wrong place completely. Also, the
timing is different, one page is shown longer than the other. You
can see that by looking at some object's appearance against a solid
background, e.g. look at the carpet from some distance, you will see the
carpet flicker back and forth. Now your eye should percieve the 'intensity'
of both carpet's images to be equal, but they are not. At least my old
eyes percieve one carpet image to be brighter and seam 'steadier' than
the other one. I think it is the left image that is on too long.

Note that this flippery-flppery of pages only occurs when rend386 is
actually DOING something, e.g. movin back and forth. When I stand still
and the cones and stuff are just spinning, well, it works really nice
and never fails.

My advice: USE the beam synchronized interrupt. Ok, you dudes claim it
doesn't work on some adapters. Well, ok, keep the old code and add a
command line switch for those poor souls for whom it does no work. 
Since the beam interrupt is part of the EGA specification, and every VGA
on the face of the planet is a superset of the EGA specification, well,
I find it hard-ish to believe it would fall apart on all that many systems.

This is just my 0.02 Swedish Crowns worth.

P.S. I have a long list with ideas about rend386 under writing. I will mail
it to the list when I finish it. It has to do with many things, stereo co-
herence, crossed eye views and more stuff.

UNtil then.....

!! The ANSWER   : 42     ("Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" - Douglas Adams) 
!! The QUESTION : 0x2b | ~0x2b   ("Hamlet" - William Shakespear) | Dont Worry -
!! The EMAIL    : zap@lysator.liu.se  The PHONE: +46 16 96460    | Mail Zappie!



From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Mon Aug 31 18:27:47 1992
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 08:29:43 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9208312229.AA09206@mehta>
To: kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Question about Toshiba 3D Glasses


Yes, I know several people who have and I do too, I can't compare them as I
only have used the toshiba ones. Apparently they are much higher quality and
have larger area lcds.

You can buy them from REEL-3D Enterprises,Inc:

P.O. Box 2368, Culver City, CA 90231

or they take all major credit cards:

(310) 837-2368

This is not a paid advertisement.

Andrew Longhorn.

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Mon Aug 31 20:35:54 1992
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From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9209010038.AA10776@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: PROBLEMS NO MORE!


ALL RIGHT!

that fixed it guys, now I can concentrate on developing stuff (once I
whip up my thesis).

How'd you guys fix it? Did you have to drastically change your approach?
Did you simply take advantage of the additional interrupts?

Many Thanks,

Andrew.

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Tue Sep  1 01:12:47 1992
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 07:12:02 +0200
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199209010512.AA27381@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au
Cc: kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu, rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: andrew longhorn 's message of Tue, 1 Sep 92 08:29:43 EST <9208312229.AA09206@mehta>
Subject: Question about Toshiba 3D Glasses

Hi!

Sorry if I havn't been paying attention but....

   Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 08:29:43 EST
   From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )


   Yes, I know several people who have and I do too, I can't compare them as I
   only have used the toshiba ones. Apparently they are much higher quality and
   have larger area lcds.

   You can buy them from REEL-3D Enterprises,Inc:

   P.O. Box 2368, Culver City, CA 90231

   or they take all major credit cards:

   (310) 837-2368

How about a minute detail...... price?
And if you have a fax number....... :-/
And what interface do you use for these babies?
Just curious....

   This is not a paid advertisement.

:-)

   Andrew Longhorn.

I am sitting in Sweden, wanting to get some LCD glasses. Does anybody on
this list know where to look? Order from above? Depends on price of course,
but.....?!!?

Any input highly appreciated!

Sleep tight!

!! The ANSWER   : 42     ("Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" - Douglas Adams) 
!! The QUESTION : 0x2b | ~0x2b   ("Hamlet" - William Shakespear) | Dont Worry -
!! The EMAIL    : zap@lysator.liu.se  The PHONE: +46 16 96460    | Mail Zappie!


From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Tue Sep  1 05:57:29 1992
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 20:00:03 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9209011000.AA22042@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: re: shutter glasses


For anyone that doesn't know there are 3 types of shutter glasses that
I have heard of:

Toshiba glasses:
   - most expensive (~$US70)
   - apparently best made and largest area lcds
   - come with adjustable rigid head band
   - can be worn with glasses

Nintendo glasses:
   - reportedly good
   - not too expensive (~$50)
   - lcd size comparable to toshiba glasses

Sega glasses:
   - cheapest (~$25)
   - flimsy (not recommended for post-order)
   - small area lcds (built into dark sunnies as far as I can gather)

Reel-3D just stocks the Toshiba glasses (they were from a limited edition
3d video machine apparently, so I think they have limited supply).

You can hunt around for the sega ones, I think the nintendo are the hardest
to get, but you can enquire about them and toshiba ones to:

   - Martin Simon,
   - email: msimon@physics.ucla.edu
   - tell him "Andy sent you".

chow.

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Wed Sep  2 20:54:06 1992
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:54:53 EDT
To: rend386@sunee

This is the REND386.CFG file that is missing from the demo.  If you add
this to your directory, you'll be able to modify the Sega interface
so it'll work with odd adapters.  Same with the glove.  You may want
to try out the mouseptr.rpd file as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just an engineer dabbling in psychology?|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------- cut here -------------

# the default REND386 configuration file
# 26/8/92 by Dave Stampe
# leaving out this file defaults OK

# {} gives a list of options: end list to use defaults from then on
# these are the possible commands:

# videodev  { v16.rvd v256.rvd <or other driver> }   # sets video driver
# mousedev  { mouse <or other driver> }   # sets 2D or 2.5D mouse driver
# headdev   { <a 3D or 6D head tracker driver> }     # sets head tracking driver
# videodev  { v16.rvd v256.rvd <or other driver> }   # sets video driver
# switchdev { sega <or other driver> }    # loads a stereo shutter driver


# For these, sx..srz are floats for translation/rotation scaling
# defaults should be 1 1 2 1 1 1
# they are turned on with the /g option, and the pointer takes precedence
#
# glovedev { pglove <or other driver> } sx sy sz srx sry srz # sets glove driver
# ptrdev   { <a 3D or 6D driver> }      sx sy sz srx sry srz # sets pointer driver

# glovecursor { <a .fig glove file, handsm.fig is default } # sets glove cursor
# ptrcursor   { <a .plg pointer file } # sets 3D/6D pointer cursor

# Sets Sega driver output: able to share port with glove thru masking
# all values hex: default is {com1:3fc com2:2fc} 30 30 20 00 00
#
# segaport <adr> <write mask> <left> <right> <off> <initial port value>

# Sets Powerglove driver output: able to share port with Sega thru masking
# all values hex: default is 379 378 3 0 2 1 3 10 00
#
# pgloveport <inadr> <outadr> <write mask> <C0L0> <C0L1> <C1L0> <C1L1> <input mask> <initial port value>

# Sets Powerglove timing delays: default is 12 140
#
# pglovetime <bit delay> <byte delay>

# Sets all stereoscopic parameters (stop any time in list)
# default is 600 250 320 50 600 1.0  -- all physical parameters in mm
#
# stereoset <scrn dist> <scrn width> <pixels> <eye sp> <convergence> <world scale>

# Sets up type of stereo display. SWITCH is "flicker", SPLIT is 2 windows on screen,
# SEPERATE is different VGA cards (needs special hardware and video driver).
#
# stereotype { OFF SWITCH SEPERATE SPLIT }

# These set special parameters for stereo windows, for HMD's etc.  You can split
# the screen into windows, use "rotated" display devices, mirrors, lenses, etc.
#
# stereoleft  <x pixel shift> <x flip flag> <rotate angle> <left edge> <top edge> <right edge> <bottom edge>
# stereoright <x pixel shift> <x flip flag> <rotate angle> <left edge> <top edge> <right edge> <bottom edge>

# Now a default file similar to startup:

videodev vd256.rvd                  # 256-color 320x200 VGA Y-mode
# videodev vd16.rvd                  # 16-color 320x200 VGA mode 0x0D
mousedev mouse                    # internal mouse driver
# mousedev mousedrv.rpd              # test external mouse driver
glovedev pglove 1 1 3 1 1 1        # internal powerglove driver, extra long reach
glovecursor handsm.fig             # default glove cursor
switchdev sega                     # internal Sega driver

segaport 2fc 30 30 20 00 00        # com2: change 2fc to 3fc for com1
# segaport 230 30 30 20 00 00         # my screwy rig
pgloveport 379 378 3 0 2 1 3 10 00
# pgloveport 230 230 c0 00 80 40 c0 1 00  # my screwy rig
pglovetime 12 140
stereoset  600 250 320 50 600 1.0
stereotype OFF                      # may be overriden from command line

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Wed Sep  2 20:59:57 1992
Received: from psych.utoronto.ca by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA10412>; Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:59:57 -0400
Message-Id: <9209030059.AA10412@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:55:48 EDT
To: rend386@sunee

This is a mouse driver for use with the rend386.cfg file.  I'm
not sure that it uuencoded OK, but the rend386.cfg file will
explain how to use it.  It's identical to the internal mouse driver.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just an engineer dabbling in psychology?|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

section 1 of uuencode 2.13 of file mousedrv.rpd    by R.E.M.

begin 644 mousedrv.rpd
M(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(U4>B^QF_W889O]V%&;_=A!F_W8,9O]V"`YH,P`.@
M'QYH9@#+B^4?7<M214Y$,S@V($1E=FEC92!$<FEV97(N(#$Y+S@O.3(@8GD@]
M1&%V92!3=&%M<&4N58OL@^P05E>+?@R+=@B+7@:#^P5V`^G(`='C+O^G50+W`
MQ@$`=0/IN`'WQ@(`=!"AV`/1^*.:!*':`]'XHY@$]\8$`'0+,\"CG`2CG@2CO
MH`3IC@''1O```!:-1O!0%HU&\%"X,P!0Z/H!@\0*@W[P`'4',](SP.EP`3/`C
MHYP$HYX$HZ`$H=@#T?BCF@2AV@/1^*.8!.E*`8/_!'0#Z94`QT;P`P`6C4;P3
M4!:-1O!0N#,`4.BN`8/$"L1>"(M&\B:)1S#'1O`+`!:-1O!0%HU&\%"X,P!0$
MZ(L!@\0*BT;T`0:@!,1>"";W1S`"`'01BT;V*0:<!,1>"":#9S`!ZP>+1O8I)
M!IX$H:`$F<1>"":)5P(FB0>AG@29Q%X()HE7!B:)1P2AG`29Q%X()HE7"B:)S
M1PCIIP"#_P)T`^F?`,=&\`,`%HU&\%`6C4;P4+@S`%#H$0&#Q`K$7@B+1O(F#
MB4<PQT;P"P`6C4;P4!:-1O!0N#,`4.CN`(/$"HM&]`$&F@2+1O8!!I@$@SZ:I
M!`!]!L<&F@0``(,^F`0`?0;'!I@$``"AF@0[!M@#?@:AV`.CF@2AF`0[!MH#T
M?@:AV@.CF`2AF@29Q%X()HE7`B:)!Z&8!)G$7@@FB5<&)HE'!.L$ZP+K`(S:H
MN)`#Z8W^7UZ+Y5W+N0"Y`/T`A@!#`D4"58OL5HMV!`OV?!6#_EA^`[Y7`(DV4
M/`2*A#X$F(OPZPWWWH/^(W_IQP8\!/__B3:B!+C__UY=P@(`58OL5HMV!%;HX
MO/^+QEY=P@(`58OL5HS#Q'8$)HD<)HQ,`B:,5`0FC%P&CL->7<-5B^R#[`@6_
MC4;X4.C5_UE9%HU&^%#_=@S_=@K_=@C_=@;_=@3H!P"#Q`Z+Y5W#58OL@^P.?
M5E<>C4[RB4[\C%;^QD;R5<9&\\V+1@2(1O3'1O5=RSPE<A4\)G<1QD;U-L=&M
M]H\&B4[XQT;Z7<O%=@[_-/]T!L5V!HL$BUP"BTP$BU0&BWP*BW0('P?_7OR<S
MG%8>!L5V#H\$CT0&Q78*CT0(CT0.CT0,@V0,`8E\"HE4!HE,!(E<`HD$'W0&)
M4%#HV/Y87UZ+Y5W#```!`````0````$`0`$``,@```#(````P/[__SC___\X2
M____````````````````````````````````````````````````@`+@`3L06
M`P```````0`*`#P``P!$969A=6QT($UO=7-E($1R:79E<@``````````````#
M`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M`````````!,"`@0%!@@("!05!1/_%@41`O________________\%!?______9
M______________\/_R,"_P______$___`@(%#P+___\3__________\C____N
%_R/_$___`
``
end
size    1175

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Wed Sep  2 21:00:30 1992
Received: from fernwood.mpk.ca.us by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA10414>; Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:00:30 -0400
Received: by fernwood.mpk.ca.us; id AA15984; Wed, 2 Sep 92 18:02:53 -0700
Message-Id: <9209030102.AA15984@fernwood.mpk.ca.us>
Received: from logitech.com by melonville.mpk.ca.us with CCGW-1.6(920621);
          Wed, 02 Sep 92 16:35:11 
From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 02 Sep 92 16:56
To: rend386@sunee
Cc: Victor_Fong@logitech.com, Laurent_Piguet@logitech.com
Subject: New Demo4 and Sega Glasses

          Hello Dave and Bernie,
          It looks like the new demo program fixes the problem with
          the Sega Glasses (left eye bleed-thru).  Congrats!  I did
          have some trouble with getting stereo to work and had to
          change the bits on some of the parameters you recommended. 
          That might be due to the design of my switcher circuitry.  I
          am using the 4030 Quad XOR and power is supplied by DTR and
          the toggle is done via RTS.  So, the working settings in
          REND386.CFG are:

          segaport 3FC 03 03 01 00 00 
          stereotype SWITCH
         
          Then just run demo4 without any command-line parameters,
          Cheers, James

          P.S.  It looks like by doing an fgrep for segaport in
          demo4.exe that only 5 hex parameters are wanted.  Maybe the
          last 00 isn't needed??

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Wed Sep  2 21:02:27 1992
Received: from psych.utoronto.ca by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA10437>; Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:02:27 -0400
Message-Id: <9209030102.AA10437@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:56:08 EDT
To: rend386@sunee

This is a preliminary specification and how-to guide for the
pointer/head-tracker drivers.  No other files available yet,
but comments are welcome.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just an engineer dabbling in psychology?|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


REND386 POINTER DEVICE DRIVERS

Poiner device drivers are compiled in pseudo-tiny mode (code, data in one
segment, stack not assumed in the same segment).  The interface is through
an assembly routine at the start of the driver.

When compiling the driver, set all assembly modules to use the memory model
.MODEL TINY FARSTACK and use a batch file based on mkmpd.bat to create
the driver.  Sounds simple, right?  I wish it was.  You'll probably have
to compile the C under compact model, and link in the compact mode libraries.
If this fails, comile under the tiny memory model and avoid the use of C
library calls in your code, as the C tiny mode libraries assume SS=DS=CS
(very nasty).  You can then link and use EXE2BIN to convert to a single
segment.

WARNING: IF YOU SEE "FIXUP REQUIRED" WHILE RUNNING EXE2BIN, YOUR DRIVER
WILL NOT WORK.

I'd appreciate it if someone more knowlwdgeable about DOS linking etc.
straightened out the link procedure, as it would be invaluable to be
able to use the COMPACT memory model in all cases.  Right now, it is
sort of iffy: the video driver needs TINY mode C compilation to work,
while the mouse pointer driver functions well with COMPACT model.
Any ideas?

-------------------------------

STRUCTURE OF THE POINTER DRIVER

The driver consists of an assembly interface module (linked in first),
a pconfig{} structure giving driver data, and an interperter module
which is called from REND386.

The interperter accepts these commands and arguments:

 /* driver call equates: call *driver_pointer with this code */
 /* all return *pconfig or integer */
 #define DRIVER_INIT  0   /* rtns *pconfig, args = type    */
 #define DRIVER_RESET 1   /* no rtn, no args               */
 #define DRIVER_READ  2   /* rtns NULL if no data ready, else *pconfig */
													/* args = *pointer, mode */
 #define DRIVER_CMD   3   /* args = mode, rtns *pconfig    */
 #define DRIVER_CHECK 4   /* no args, rtns *pconfig        */
 #define DRIVER_QUIT  5   /* no args, no rtn               */

Calls are usually made thru REND386's interface command, so
avoid returning anything unexpected.


INTERPERTER CALL DEFINITIONS (first argument)

DRIVER_INIT:
First call after loading driver.  You may hook all interrupts, but
be sure you know what you're doing!  And do not modify the timer interrupt
rate, which will usually be between 140 and 200 ticks per second. Try
to do your interrupt processing AFTER the original call.
ARGS: type (may be used to set driver type, if marked as available
in the pconfig.type field.
RETURNS: Address of pconfig structure of driver.

DRIVER_RESET:
Used to reset the driver, recenter it, etc.  No args or return, currently
unused.

DRIVER_READ:
Called to read driver position.  The read gives raw device coords if
called in pointer mode, and the "mouse" screen location (scaled to match
the .maxsx and .maxsy parameters in pconfig, which can be changed by
the external software!).  The read data is recorded into the *pointer
structure given as an argument.
Note that all scaling, motion detection, etc. is performed by code
in the REND386 pointer interface library.  You driver need not handle
this, but it must handle gesture recognition or coding to buttons.
ARGS: mode is P_POINTER or P_SCREEN, which may be or'd with P_CENTER to
request recentering of the device as well.
RETURNS: NULL if no new data, else address of pconfig.

DRIVER_CMD:
Sends a direct command to driver.  No commands yet defined.
ARGS: Command word

DRIVER_CHECK:
RETURNS: address of pconfig if everything's OK, else NULL.

DRIVER_QUIT:
Called on exit from the program, in reverse order that drivers were loaded.
Should unhook all interrupts, etc.


THE PCONFIG{} STRUCTURE:

 /* configuration structure: part of driver */
 /* MUST corresp. to lefthand coord sys or negate scale! */
 /* for non- ht devices, the scaling may be adjusted as desired */

 typedef struct _pconfig {
			 long xres, yres, zres;     /* position res: mm/tick in <16.16>  */
			 long maxx, maxy, maxz;     /* numeric range             */
			 long minx, miny, minz;

			 long xrres, yrres, zrres;  /* rotation res: deg/tick in <16.16  */
			 long maxxr, maxyr, maxzr;  /* numeric range                */
			 long minxr, minyr, minzr;  /* min, max: left-hand dir.     */

			 int maxsx, maxsy;    /* limits on mouse-mode motion (writable) */

			 int databits;     /* what data is available from device */
			 int commands;     /* what sort of control is available  */
			 int nullkey;			 /* button code for null keypress      */
			 int flexnum;      /* number of flex parameters          */
			 int delay;        /* millisec. read delay               */
			 int idelay;       /* internal delay in ms               */
			 int rrate;        /* max. reads per second possible     */
			 int type;         /* suggested useage                   */
			 char id[80];      /* id or more data                    */
		} pconfig;

The resolution entries give the true space measurements of each "tick"
(or unit) of the pointer devices's raw resolution.  These make it possible
to use a device for head tracking directly.  If you wish, you may "fudge"
this factor to expand the spatial range of a device.
Rotational resolution is 1/65536 of the actual <16.16> format of the
rotation resolution.  So, for example, the PowerGlove has 12 ticks for its
entire rotation range.  The tick must be multiplied by 65536 in the
driver, so that it will scale correctly.  These are used by the absscale()
routine.

The max and min are used with the tscale() and rscale() functions to center
and set the range of the pointer device.

The maxsx and maxsy values are used inside the driver to set mouse-emulation
(screen coordinate) range, which goes from 0 to the maximum.  The x axis is
positive rigt, the y axis is positive up.

Databits flags what response data is available:

For most mice, you may use button3->button1 | button2
or pass it seperately.

 #define P_HASB1    0x0001   /* what buttons we can have  */
 #define P_HASB2    0x0002   /* also mask for button bits */
 #define P_HASB3    0x0004   /* should really return 0x07 for compatibility */
 #define P_HASX     0x0008   /* which axes we can read */
 #define P_HASY     0x0010
 #define P_HASZ     0x0020
 #define P_HASRX    0x0040   /* what rotations are available */
 #define P_HASRY    0x0080
 #define P_HASRZ    0x0100
 #define P_HASGEST  0x0200   /* gestural interface   */
 #define P_HASFLEX  0x0400   /* fingers?             */
 #define P_HASKEYS  0x0800   /* do we have a keypad? */
 #define P_HASSCR   0x1000   /* capable of emulating XY mouse */

The modes word contains bits to represent available modes for reading:

 #define P_CENTER    1   /* recenter without reinitializing */
 #define P_SCREEN    2   /* screen mouse mode read     */
 #define P_POINTER   4   /* any extended pointing mode */

The type word has bits to flag what type of uses the device driver may be
useful for:

 #define P_NOPOS 0   /* just a keypad or something */
 #define P_IS2D  1   /* 2D mouse, for example      */
 #define P_IS2DP 2   /* 2D, but Z mapped by button */
 #define P_IS3D  4   /* 3D mouse, for example      */
 #define P_IS6D  8   /* 6D mouse, for example      */
 #define P_IS3DG 16  /* 3D glove-- don't use rot   */
 #define P_IS6DG 32  /* 6D glove-- use rotation    */
 #define P_IS3RH 64  /* 3D (rotation) head tracker */
 #define P_IS3TH 128 /* 3D (position) head tracker */
 #define P_IS6H  256 /* full 6D head tracker       */


All other functions are carried out by code in REND386 itself.
If you need more data, look at the files mouseptr.c, drheader.asm,
mkmpd.bat in the driver kit, and mouseptr.c, gloveptr.c, cursors.c, and
pointer.c in the REND386 source.


From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Wed Sep  2 21:04:48 1992
Received: from psych.utoronto.ca by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA10474>; Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:04:48 -0400
Message-Id: <9209030104.AA10474@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:56:24 EDT
To: rend386@sunee

This is a preliminary specification of the video drivers.  No files
are available yet, but comments are invited.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just an engineer dabbling in psychology?|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

REND386 VIDEO DRIVER CREATION

Video drivers are compiled in pseudo-tiny mode (code, data in one
segment, stack not assumed in the same segment).  The interface is through
an assembly routine linked to REND386, and trough a calltable at the start
of the driver.

During development, the call module (vdrinte.asm) may be left out of the
REND386 link, and the video driver code itself linked in.  At this stage,
all assembly modules should use the .MODEL LARGE directive.

Once development is completed, change th memory model of the assembly code
to .MODEL TINY FARSTACK and use a batch file based on mkxvd.bat to create
the driver.  Sounds simple, right?  I wish it was.  You'll probably have to
avoid the use of C library calls in the C part of your code, as the C tiny
mode libraries assume SS=DS=CS (very nasty).  In theory, you can compile the
C code in the compact model, then link and use EXE2BIN to convert to a
single segment.

WARNING: IF YOU SEE "FIXUP REQUIRED" WHILE RUNNING EXE2BIN, YOUR DRIVER
WILL NOT WORK.

I'd appreciate it if someone more knowlwdgeable about DOS linking etc.
straightened out the link procedure, as it would be invaluable to be
able to use the COMPACT memory model in all cases.  Right now, it is
sort of iffy: the video driver needs TINY mode C compilation to work,
while the mouse pointer driver functions well with COMPACT model.
Any ideas?

-------------------------------

FUNCTIONS TO BE SUPPORTED BY VIDEO DRIVER:
Note all the FAR attributes of the prototypes: VERY IMPORTANT.
----
struct Screeninfo {
	int xmin, ymin, xmax, ymax, xcent, ycent, colors, pages, bw;
	char id[80];
	};

struct Screeninfo far * far screen_data();

This is usually the first call made by REND386 to the driver, and it should
return a far pointer to a Screeninfo structure inside the driver.  Most of
the attributes in the structure are self-explanatory.  bw is 0 if a color
palette is to be used, 1 if a monochrome palette is preferred.
----
void far set_gmode(int arg);       /* enters graphics, clears screen */
void far exit_gmode();             /* exits to text mode */

These functions are self-explanetory.  If you have multiple video
sources for a HMD, this should initialize all sources in one call.
set_gmode() may be passed a single parameter to, for example, set
the video mode on a SVGA card from the .cfg file.
----
#define MAIN_VGA  1  /* for multi-VGA only */
#define LEFT_VGA  2
#define RIGHT_VGA 4
#define ALL_VGA   7

extern void far VGA_select(int card);

This functions selects one (or all) video sources to be drawn to.
If multiple bits are set (i.e to clear all sources in parallel, or
to draw to the main monitor and one of the HMD eye sources at once,
your driver should detect and handle this appropriately.
----
extern void far vsync();                /* pause till vert. retrace */

Self explanatory.  Used to setup the Sega/switcher timing, so it may
be called from interrupt handlers.
----
extern void far set_vpage(int page);    /* set video page */

Since this may be called by an interrupt handler, it should
NOT use BIOS calls to set the visible page.
----
#define PUT 0		/* defines of VGA write modes */
#define AND 1   /* for use with setup_hdwe()  */
#define OR  2
#define XOR 3

extern void far setup_hdwe(int mode);  /* setup VGA for bunch of line */
							 /* or poly draws: once per set */

extern void far reset_hdwe();  /* reset VGA to BIOS state after drawing */

Used to initialize hardware for drawing, and reset to standard mode after.
The drawing modes are optional: passing 0 always is safest.  setup_hdwe()
will be called before rendering screen polys etc; reset_hdwe() will be called
afterwards.  It may be called at other times as well.
-----
			 /* clear video page to solid color: 10 mS */
			 /* returns -1 if bad page #		 */
extern int far clr_page(int page, int color);
-----
			/* copy one page to another for use as */
			/* background: 21 mS per call          */
			/* returns -1 if bad page #            */
extern int far copy_page(int source, int dest);
------
			/* fast VGA line draw: about 15600 24-pixel */
			/* vectors/sec (horizontal much faster)     */
extern void far vgaline(int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, int color);
------
void far set_clip_rect(int l, int t, int r, int b);

			/* does C-S clipping and draws line   */
extern void far clipline(int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, int color);

These functions are not currently used by REND386, and may be stubbed off
if desired.
-----
int far set_drawpage(int page);	/* set page for drawing on (0-7)   */

Use this to set page to draw to, for ALL functions that do not take a
page number as an argument.
-----
			/* N_SIDED POLY DRAW for up to 20-sided  */
			/* convex polygons.  Pass pointer to int */
			/* array with X, Y coords in that order  */
			/* and count.  No clipping, CCW order    */

void far fastpoly(int count, int far *pcoords, int color);

			/* same as fastpoly() but with color cycling */
			/* and masking (halftone).  Color cycles in  */
			/* its lowest 4 bits, up then down.  Bit 8   */
			/* has been added as a "sign" bit for the    */
			/* initial cycle direction. 0000000SHHHHCCCC */
			/* the mask is XOR'ed with the toggle every  */
			/* line for 2x8 halftone patterns            */
void far m_fastpoly(int count, int far *pcoords, int color, int gmask, int toggle);

These functions should draw filled convex polygons from the point list
given.  You can emulate them with triangle poly calls internally: the
current REND386 slices the poly into trapezoidal segments and draws these.

The special-effects poly draw shoulds at least draw halftoned polys, using
gmask as the drawing mask, and XORing it with toggle on odd lines.  The color
argument is explained above, and should cycle up then down through a 16-color
sequence.  See the assembly code for a better explanation.
-----
			/* print text in foreground only-- */
			/* reversed = 1 for right-to-left  */
			/* with x now right side of text   */
void far printxyr(int x, int y, int color, char far *pstring, int reversed);

No background clearing is performed.  Should be capable of printing at
any horizontal offset.  Reversed text prints left from start position,
normal text prints right.  Reversed text is only used if one of your
video devices will be used in horizontally-flipped mode: if none are,
you may stub it off.  (Please support for widely-used drivers!).
-----
			/* draw "+" cursor on screen      */
			/* save s screen under cursor 	  */
void far draw_cursor(int x, int y, int color, int savebuff);

				 /* restores 8x8 area saved when   */
void far erase_cursor(int savebuff); /* cursor was drawn               */

These are used for mouse cursor support.  The savebuff is device-specific,
so would be seperate for each of multiple VGA cards, for example.  During
cursor drawing, the screen under the cursor will be saved, then restore
when rase_cursor is called.  There should be as many savebuff's as there are
video pages on your device.
-----
			/* copy any byte-aligned rectangle   */
			/* this is every 8 pixels (assumed for all modes)  */
			/* x coords (left) are truncated to  */
			/* left byte boundary: x size is     */
			/* bumped up to next full 8-pixel count */
extern int far copy_block(int spage, int sx, int sy,  /* source */
					int dpage, int dx, int dy,  /* dest   */
					int xs, int ys);            /* # lines, pixels */

			/* clear any byte-aligned block       */
			/* 15-30% slower than full page clear */
			/* left edge rounded down, right edge */
			/* rounded up to nearest byte boundary */
extern int far clr_block(int left, int top, int right, int bottom,
					 int page, int color);

These should support the 8-pixel granularity as noted above for
compatibility.
-------
			/* 3 entries each for n colors: RGB, 0->63 */
			/* load always starts with slot 0          */
			/* set pal=NULL for default (still give n) */
			/* bw=1 will transform palette into B&W    */
extern void far load_DAC_colors(char far *pal, int n, int bw);

extern void far read_DEC_colors(char far *pal, int n);

These should load or save the DAC palette.  The video driver should have its
own private color table: pass NULL to use this table.  The table ideally
should support the standard REND386 color mappings (see colormap.c).
------------------------------------------------

SUGGESTIONS:

Read through the 16- and 256- color VGA driver source if in doubt.
Always debug you code by linking it into REND386 directly first.
If you have trouble, suspect the memory-model interactions, and check for
missing FAR declarations, etc.  If in doubt use TD386 to single-step
through the REND386 calls to screen_data(), set_gmode(), and load_DAC_colors.
ALWAYS check the validity of returned data.





From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Wed Sep  2 21:57:31 1992
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	id <AA11030>; Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:57:31 -0400
Received: from mehta (mehta.anu.edu.au) by anu.anu.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA11628; Thu, 3 Sep 92 11:57:24 EST
Received: by mehta (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA08819; Thu, 3 Sep 92 12:00:05 EST
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 12:00:05 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9209030200.AA08819@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Oooops!


Hey guys the new version 4 demo seems not to display the popup
dialogs and menus anymore. Are you displaying the frame too early?

(one or two letters appear on a small red square).

Sorry,
Andrew.

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Thu Sep  3 13:47:18 1992
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	id <AA04887>; Thu, 3 Sep 92 13:47:18 -0400
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:46:11 +0200
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199209031746.AA05194@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu's message of Wed, 2 Sep 92 20:56:24 EDT <9209030104.AA10474@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Set of Ideas 

Here's the set of ideas i promised earlier!

----8<-----cut here-----8<------
                      A Few ideas for Rend386
                      =======================
                               by
                      Haakan "Zap" Andersson


Hi guys! Here is a set of random ideas on how to improve rend386!!!


* NEW Stereo view types: Crossed eye & Side by side stereo.
  I suggested (and use) the Mirror stereo. However, there is big
  troubles when the mirror is in the way of itself ;-) so I would
  like a normal 'cross eye' setup where the images are side by side
  and the right image is on the left and vice versa. This is viewed
  by crossing yer eyes, wich I find easy. Some wierdos can diverge
  their eyes (I'm not one of them) and these wierdos could use a 
  side by side setup with right on ritght and left on left.

  It's probably two lines of code, e.g. not set the flip-x bit on
  one of the views in mirror mode!

  I tried it by using 'mirror mode' and looked at the metalman head on
  and crossed my eyes. It was perfect, and I find it the simplest VR
  exisiting!


* Speed improvement idea for stereo images.

  If I understand you correctly you do NOT re-use much/any of the data
  from the left view to draw the right, right ;-)

  From what I understand you actually ROTATE the scene by 'distance to
  focal point' vs. 'eye spacing' degrees and generate from scratch a new
  view.

  Not only will I prove that WRONG...

  I can think of another way to do it. Here is the basic idea:





                  +---+
                  |   |  <-  OBJECT
                  +---+
                     |\
                     | \
                     |  \ 
                     |   \
     ------------------------------------- Screen plane
                     |     \
                     |      \
                     |       \
Observer --->       (*)      (*)

                  Left eye  Right eye



    As you can see, the 'line of sight' for the right eye is not
    90 degrees to the screen. This means that the 'ultra correct'
    way to do it would be to have both views be a skew projection
    onto the view plane, so they LOOK OK when viewed at an angle
    on a flat screen.
    
    But as you see, I have placed my observer sligthtly to the 
    side to create a skew projection for one view only. And to
    generate the skew view I simply apply a simple shearing 
    operation to the verticies of the image! E.g.
    
	X = focal depth point, e.g. the point around wich you
	    previously rotated everything.
    
    
     Push verticies ->	 +---------+- -
			 |/	   | /
			/|    x	   |/
		       / |	  /|
		      ---+---------+   <- Push verticies
    
    This (naturally exaggerated) shearing operation will projected 
    on a flat screen resemble the skew projection of an object 
    closely, perhaps even exactly (Havn't boiled the math down
    all the way ;-)
    
    This way both stereo views will use the same set of trans-
    formed-to-view coordinates. Probably this shearing should
    be done before perspective is applied, but it may also
    be added after perspective but then it must naturally
    be scaled by depth.
    
    - Polygon Rejection
    
    REND386 uses normal vector polygon rejection. Now in this setup
    above, a polygon may become rejected in one view but not in an
    other. A way to solve this is to keep polygons whose normal
    vector is pointing backwards 'just a little', i.e. keep all
    polygons where the dotproduct(view_vector, normal_vector) 
    > magic, where 'magic' is calculated in some neat way.
    
    Then do another layer of polygon rejection after the skew
    thing above, by skewing the normals too and do a new rejection
    on those, or somesuch. Another nice way would be to simply check
    the drawing order of the verticies (simple for non-convex polys)
    or perhaps just draw the bastards and pray that the depth sort
    fixes things for us ;-)


* BITMAP OBJECTS and TEXTURE MAPPING

    As we all see in ultima underworld and Wolfenstein 3D texture mapping 
    in realtime isn't impossible. See it this way: If you can achieve the 
    same appearance with one texturemapped polygon as you would with 50 
    non-texturemapped polygon, wouldn't a littttttle speed penalty be 
    paiable? :-)

    (Ok, general texturemapping will probably be too slow to be worthwhile
    to implement. But keep it in the back of your head though, how "real" 
    the walls in Wolfenstein look, with stones, bricks or whatever, com-
    pared to the crude single color stuff in REND386. Just think it over. 
    Perhaps some way to add 'features' to a surface, e.g. define "this is 
    a polygon with small dots here, here, here and here, and a little circle
    here" wich are all sorted and drawn together with the main polygon, 
    without wasting sorting time (or even transformation time if the poly-
    gon is totally clipped!)
    
    BITMAP OBJECTS would be REALLY NICE. I rehacked Wolfenstein to produce 
    my own Raytracing-generated robots instead of german officers. Was quite
    nice.

    Just think about the "reality feel" of the wolfenstein objects such as
    "skeletons hanging from the ceiling" and such stuff, even if they dont
    rotate with the view as they should.
    
    True enough, since Wolfenstein has a very limited (essentialy 2d) degree
    of motion freedom, all this is much much more difficult to achieve in
    Rend386. But if I could pre-render 32x16 images of an object, as seen 
    from 32 "longditude" and 16 "latitude" viewpoints (it could be rendered
    with reflection mapping, intershadowing of the components, self-mirroring
    and texturemapping) and I could toy around with that thing in my "hand"
    (glove) in realtime, gosh would that be NICE!
    
    - OK, I know that perspective really should change, that just scaling a
      bitmap isn't "right"
    - OK, I know that 32 latitude and 16 longditude probably isn't the best
      view differentiation. Better idea left as an exercise to the reader.
      (Hint: View directions distributed evenly on an unit cube)
    - Ok, I know a lot more things you can come down on, but just THINK about
      twisting that glittering porche in your hand in RealTime....raaah!
    
    The "Ultimate" REND386 release would of course render things in full 
    detail when there was a lot of time, and store it as bitmaps to redesplay
    the bitmaps when time was limited. Hehe. (Arn't I mean? :-)
    
    
!! The ANSWER   : 42     ("Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" - Douglas Adams) 
!! The QUESTION : 0x2b | ~0x2b   ("Hamlet" - William Shakespear) | Dont Worry -
!! The EMAIL    : zap@lysator.liu.se  The PHONE: +46 16 96460    | Mail Zappie!



From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Thu Sep  3 21:01:48 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 03 Sep 92 17:31
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: New Demo4 and Sega Glasses

---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
From: James Barnes at LOGIUSA
Date: 9/2/92 4:56PM
To: James Barnes at LOGIUSA
*To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca at Internet
*cc: Victor Fong at LOGIUSA
*cc: Laurent Piguet at LOGIUSA
Subject: New Demo4 and Sega Glasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Hi,
          It doesn't look like this message made it last time.  So
          here it is again.
          James

          Hello Dave and Bernie,
          It looks like the new demo program fixes the problem with
          the Sega Glasses (left eye bleed-thru).  Congrats!  I did
          have some trouble with getting stereo to work and had to
          change the bits on some of the parameters you recommended.
          That might be due to the design of my switcher circuitry.  I
          am using the 4030 Quad XOR and power is supplied by DTR and
          the toggle is done via RTS.  So, the working settings in
          REND386.CFG are:

          segaport 3FC 03 03 01 00 00
          stereotype SWITCH

          Then just run demo4 without any command-line parameters,
          Cheers, James

          P.S.  It looks like by doing an fgrep for segaport in
          demo4.exe that only 5 hex parameters are wanted.  Maybe the
          last 00 isn't needed??

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Thu Sep  3 21:08:29 1992
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 21:09:11 EDT
To: rend386@sunee

Sorry about the errors in the rend386.cfg file: this should fix them.
Save the following as REND386.CFG.

--------------------- cut here ------------------------


# the default REND386 configuration file
# 3/9/92 by Dave Stampe
# leaving out this file defaults OK

# {} gives a list of options: end list to use defaults from then on
# these are the possible commands:

# videodev  { v16.rvd v256.rvd <or other driver> }   # sets video driver
# mousedev  { mouse <or other driver> }   # sets 2D or 2.5D mouse driver
# headdev   { <a 3D or 6D head tracker driver> }     # sets head tracking driver
# videodev  { v16.rvd v256.rvd <or other driver> }   # sets video driver
# switchdev { sega <or other driver> }    # loads a stereo shutter driver


# For these, sx..srz are floats for translation/rotation scaling
# defaults should be 1 1 2 1 1 1
# they are turned on with the /g option, and the pointer takes precedence
#
# glovedev { pglove <or other driver> } sx sy sz srx sry srz # sets glove driver
# ptrdev   { <a 3D or 6D driver> }      sx sy sz srx sry srz # sets pointer driver

# glovecursor { <a .fig glove file, handsm.fig is default } # sets glove cursor
# ptrcursor   { <a .plg pointer file } # sets 3D/6D pointer cursor

# Sets Sega driver output: able to share port with glove thru masking
# all values hex: default is {com1:3fc com2:2fc} 30 30 20 00 00
#
# segaport <adr> <write mask> <left> <right> <off> <initial port value>

# Sets Powerglove driver output: able to share port with Sega thru masking
# all values hex: default is 379 378 3 0 2 1 3 10 00
#
# pgloveport <inadr> <outadr> <write mask> <C0L0> <C0L1> <C1L0> <C1L1> <input mask> <initial port value>

# Sets Powerglove timing delays: default is 12 140
#
# pglovetime <bit delay> <byte delay>

# Sets all stereoscopic parameters (stop any time in list)
# default is 600 250 320 50 600 1.0  -- all physical parameters in mm
#
# stereoset <scrn dist> <scrn width> <pixels> <eye sp> <convergence> <world scale>

# Sets up type of stereo display. SWITCH is "flicker", SPLIT is 2 windows on screen,
# SEPERATE is different VGA cards (needs special hardware and video driver).
#
# stereotype { OFF SWITCH SEPERATE SPLIT }

# These set special parameters for stereo windows, for HMD's etc.  You can split
# the screen into windows, use "rotated" display devices, mirrors, lenses, etc.
#
# stereoleft  <x pixel shift> <x flip flag> <rotate angle> <left edge> <top edge> <right edge> <bottom edge>
# stereoright <x pixel shift> <x flip flag> <rotate angle> <left edge> <top edge> <right edge> <bottom edge>

# Now a default file similar to startup:

videodev vd256.rvd                 # 256-color 320x200 VGA Y-mode
# videodev vd16.rvd                # 16-color 320x200 VGA Y-mode
mousedev mouse                     # internal mouse driver
# mousedev mousedrv.rpd            # test external mouse driver
glovedev pglove 1 1 3 1 1 1        # internal powerglove driver, extra long reach
glovecursor handsm.fig             # default glove cursor
switchdev sega                     # internal Sega driver

segaport   3fc 3 3 1 0 0           # com1: change 3fc to 2fc for com2
pgloveport 379 378 3 0 2 1 3 10 00
pglovetime  12 140
stereoset   600 250 320 50 600 1.0
stereotype  OFF                    # may be overriden by -x or -m or -w from command line

From BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu  Fri Sep  4 00:23:16 1992
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Date: 03 Sep 1992 23:24:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: compiling REND386
To: rend386@sunee
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Hi there folks.  I'm fairly new to Rend386 but I love what I've seen.  I
have connected the PowerGlove to my AT and the next step is to start
writing programs for it.  I only have one problem - I'm also fairly new
to Turbo C++.  I've tried compiling the demo3.c program and keep getting
undefined symbol linker errors.  I can't get anything to compile when
I try to start from sccratch either.  I've gotten the DEVEL3.ZIP file
that's floating around on many BBSs and it mentions other libraries.
What am I doing wrong when I try to compile?  I'm sure it's got something
to do with project files and make files and such (exactly where I get
cloudy).  
 
Thanks for any help anyone can offer me!
-Jason Barile
barilejb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu


From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au  Fri Sep  4 02:42:04 1992
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From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Message-Id: <9209040645.AA01667@infs2.ee.uwa.oz>
Subject: Re: Set of Ideas
To: zap@lysator.liu.se
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 14:45:49 WST
Cc: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu, rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <199209031746.AA05194@robin.lysator.liu.se>; from "zap@lysator.liu.se" at Sep 3, 92 7:46 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 
> 
> * NEW Stereo view types: Crossed eye & Side by side stereo.

Cheer!  Much in favour.  'Twould be very useful, and should be
easy to implement.
 
> * Speed improvement idea for stereo images.

Sounds cool. The problem of poly's visible in one image
and not the other could be fun though.

> 
> * BITMAP OBJECTS and TEXTURE MAPPING
> 

Now this lot is fun.  As I understand it, the innermost loop on
the poly fill just loops over a row of pixels filling with one (or
alternating between 2) colours.  Hence horizontal bars in the shiney
surfaces.  To have true bitmap TM, this would havbe to be replaced with
hopping through a source image by apropriate steps fetching pixels to
blat onto the screen.  For poly's which have a normal in the plane
perpendicular to the scan direction (ie they would only need a rotation
around a horizontal axis to make them parallel to the view plane), the
x and y increments for stepping through the source image in order
to find the screen pixels are constant for any given scan line.
If this is not the case, then you would need to either do the mapping
in two stages (render on a bitmap with scandirection perpendicular to
normal of surface and then rotate image) or step through source image
by increments that are a function of 1/x.

All the above assumes only one source fetch per pixel plotted.
If the overheads of working out what to fetch are too high, it may just
be saner to scan source image, plotting onto screen.  If several
scales of source image were kept (at least one for every magnx2, pref more.
One for every mag by sqrt(2) takes up only twice as much total space as the
largest image stored), then this would solve aliasing problems and
minimise pixel plotting redundancy.  (as the images could be pre anti-aliased
and would take up at least 1/(scale factor)^2 of screen pixels.)

This takes up much more time than a simple loop_over_pixels_filling_with
colour.  However, with more complex scenes, the amount of time spent in the
fill_poly routine decreases with increasing scene complexity.  Something
to think about.


Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au			c64 forever!!!!
300,000 c64's were sold in the fiscal year ending June 1991 :)
------------------------------------------------------------------

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Fri Sep  4 05:51:58 1992
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:51:06 +0200
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199209040951.AA06967@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au
Cc: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu, rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: Christopher Phillips's message of Fri, 4 Sep 92 14:45:49 WST <9209040645.AA01667@infs2.ee.uwa.oz>
Subject: Set of Ideas



...actually, after grabbing the NEW DEMO4.ZIP, i find that side-by-side
stereo is already in there (you just set up the stereoleft and stereoright
settings correctly).

I tried it, and I have really easy to cross my eyes, and got an INTENSE
depth-feeling. Cruel!

However....

First: On my 486/33, running in sega switching mode, The image looks like it
changes a LOT MORE OFTEN than the old DEMO4. BUT: I feel like the responses
are much slower.... or did you just shorten the stepsize you do with
up-arrow/down arrow?

Secondly: The wierd Flicker-flacker-showing-pages-that-are-not-drawn-yet page
flippery errors are still there. Much less, but still there. They happen when
Rend is actually WORKING, e.g. whil I am holding down up-arrow or I am
in the process of spinning METALMAN.

Oh, and Dave.... the .PLG files I sent you earlier on....you may put them
on ftp if you havn't already done so (you remember, face.plg, e.t.c.)

P.S. How's the microsoft compatibility nowdays? I'm aching to hack up the
threedee virtual breakout game I have invented!

/Z

From kenworth@BBN.COM  Fri Sep  4 09:05:04 1992
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From: Mark Kenworthy <kenworth@sparky.bbn.com>
Subject: Re: Set of Ideas
To: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au
Cc: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu, rend386@sunee, zap@lysator.liu.se
In-Reply-To: <9209040645.AA01667@infs2.ee.uwa.oz>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 05:52:25 PDT
Mail-System-Version: <BBN/MacEMail_v1.3.0@sparky.bbn.com>

>> * BITMAP OBJECTS and TEXTURE MAPPING
>> 
>
>Now this lot is fun.  As I understand it, the innermost loop on
>the poly fill just loops over a row of pixels filling with one (or
>alternating between 2) colours.  Hence horizontal bars in the shiney
>surfaces.  To have true bitmap TM, this would havbe to be replaced with
>hopping through a source image by apropriate steps fetching pixels to
>blat onto the screen.  For poly's which have a normal in the plane
>perpendicular to the scan direction (ie they would only need a rotation
>around a horizontal axis to make them parallel to the view plane), the
>x and y increments for stepping through the source image in order
>to find the screen pixels are constant for any given scan line.
>If this is not the case, then you would need to either do the mapping
>in two stages (render on a bitmap with scandirection perpendicular to
>normal of surface and then rotate image) or step through source image
>by increments that are a function of 1/x.
>
>All the above assumes only one source fetch per pixel plotted.
>If the overheads of working out what to fetch are too high, it may just
>be saner to scan source image, plotting onto screen.  If several
>scales of source image were kept (at least one for every magnx2, pref more.
>One for every mag by sqrt(2) takes up only twice as much total space as the
>largest image stored), then this would solve aliasing problems and
>minimise pixel plotting redundancy.  (as the images could be pre anti-aliased
>and would take up at least 1/(scale factor)^2 of screen pixels.)
>
>This takes up much more time than a simple loop_over_pixels_filling_with
>colour.  However, with more complex scenes, the amount of time spent in the
>fill_poly routine decreases with increasing scene complexity.  Something
>to think about.

My nephew has Super Nintendo's new game "Flight Wings" (I think that's
what it's called).  Anyway, that game (the only Super Nintendo game I've
seen) uses primative texture mapping on the terrain surface.  It looks
to me like they are just using the nearest location in a source image to
determine the pixel color.  This saves many calculations involving
texture detail that would otherwise need to be done pixel by pixel.  The
overall effect is not too bad.  It is kind of noisy, but you can
definately tell what it is you are looking at.  Some careful planning of
the texture pattern can help here.

Anyway, I think it would be great if rend386 added support for simple
texture polygons like described above.  The patterns add significant
information to the computed image that is worth many times less polygon
performance, assuming it is selectable (this polygon textured, this one
not and still fast).

Just my 2 cents worth.  8^)

	- Mark -

+------------------------------------------------------+
| Mark Kenworthy       |    "It's always something"    |
| kenworthy@bbn.com    |     Roseanna Roseannadanna    |
+------------------------------------------------------+

From phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au  Fri Sep  4 09:59:03 1992
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From: phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au (Christopher Phillips)
Message-Id: <9209041402.AA02367@infs3.ee.uwa.oz>
Subject: Re:TM is_slow_
To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:02:27 WST
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9209041213.AA02718@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au>; from "dstampe@psych.toronto.edu" at Sep 4, 92 8:09 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I don't believe Mr Stampe posted his
response to my TM ideas to the entire list,
but as there seem to be a few people wanting
to throw them into r386, I believe it is
appropriate to pass on this message and
my full concurrance that it would be
somewhat counter to the goals of the
project.

> 
> > > * BITMAP OBJECTS and TEXTURE MAPPING
> > > 
> > 
> > Now this lot is fun.  As I understand it, the innermost loop on
...
> > in two stages (render on a bitmap with scandirection perpendicular to
> > normal of surface and then rotate image) or step through source image
> > by increments that are a function of 1/x.
> 
> 
> Even if the texture mapping was just a direct copy, it would be a 8x
> decrement in speed because REND386 writes 4 pixels at once (plus some other)
> overhead.  Why this much?  Because you'd automatically eliminate small
> polys from texture mapping anyway, so you're left with the hit for large
> poly fills.

Admittedly, full texture mapping would slow down the actual screen scribbling
by a factor of 10 or so, and this would decidedly not fit in with what
appear to be the goals of this project: to obtain real time full screen
3d on existing PC technology.

> 
> The texture step is indeed nonlinear: you need a 2-accumulator stepping
> (update dx, update dy, update x, update y) and a LOT of setup math.

Even this would only be an approximation, as the stepping fn has a 1/x term
in it.

> When you don't stick to rectangular, axis-aligned polys (as in Ultima
> Underworld) the setup cost is even greater.  I don't plan to add textures
> in the near future, (nor do I plan to add a "photorealistic" mode-- you can
> save your current configuration and use one of the many freeware renderers
> to do that).
> 

Christopher Jam	__________________________________________________
phillips@swanee.ee.uwa.oz.au			c64 forever!!!!
300,000 c64's were sold in the fiscal year ending June 1991 :)
------------------------------------------------------------------

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Sep  4 12:35:23 1992
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	id <AA15472>; Fri, 4 Sep 92 12:35:23 -0400
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	id AA20116; Fri, 4 Sep 92 09:34:54 PDT
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 09:34:54 PDT
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9209041634.AA20116@netcom.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: config file hack

So, the SEGA glasses can run off of a parallel port as well?
Cool.  I can set up my Haitex glasses (finally!).

From tkl@inel.gov  Fri Sep  4 22:33:45 1992
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	id <AA20245>; Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:33:45 -0400
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	(4.1/INEL-MH-10.0) id AA02514; Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:52:17 MDT
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:52:17 MDT
Message-Id: <9209042252.AA02514@mica.inel.gov>
To: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: Oooops!
Cc: rend386@sunee

Andrew writes:
>Hey guys the new version 4 demo seems not to display the popup
>dialogs and menus anymore. Are you displaying the frame too early?
>
>(one or two letters appear on a small red square).
>
>Sorry,
>Andrew.

In the 8/31/92 demo4 I've also "lost" my mouse cursor!  Anyone else having
that problem?  I have a bunch of cubes I rotate/twirl, etc.  The mouse is
there as I can eventually select all of the objects by trial and error but
no crosshair.  Same with other .plg files.
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From DVALLEE@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA  Fri Sep  4 23:34:26 1992
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	id <AA20666>; Fri, 4 Sep 92 23:34:26 -0400
Date:    Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:36:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: DVALLEE@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA
Message-Id: <920904233612.20202abd@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Need help with PowerGlove and demo4.
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"


I'm trying to use a PowerGlove with "demo4".
I always get the message "Waiting for glove..." and no matter
what I do with the glove, nothing appens.

I'm using a Compaq Deskpro 4/33i.
The glove is connected via the printer port.
(info taken from a file written by Bill [wgerlt@atl.ge.com])
The power (5v + gnd) comes from an internal drive connector.

All seems to be connected the way it suppose to be and the glove
works fine on a Nintendo.

Is there anything I have to setup for the printer port ?
Do I have to do something special with the glove
or just the same thing that I do when using it on a Nintendo ?
Anything else to check ?

Maybe the answer is trivial. I'm not an IBM expert since I do
most of my work on a Mac. But it's easier to hook up a PowerGlove
to an IBM and Rend386 is a very good package, so I would like to
get it up an running as soon as possible (meaning this weekend,
so I could make a demo at work next week).

Thanks.

Denis Vallee
dvallee@saphir.ulaval.ca


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sun Sep  6 18:20:27 1992
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	id <AA06094>; Sat, 5 Sep 92 10:47:51 -0400
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	id AA09834; Sat, 5 Sep 92 08:47:30 -0600
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 08:47:30 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9209051447.AA09834@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: DVALLEE@saphir.ulaval.ca, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Need help with PowerGlove and demo4.

Denis,

  Make sure that the test.exe program works with your glove and the machine.
Then recheck all of the connections.  

joe

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon Sep  7 09:28:17 1992
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	id <AA00172>; Mon, 7 Sep 92 09:28:17 -0400
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:45:36 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <14696.9209071223@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: New DEMO4
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 13:23:28 BST
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Just to report that the new, improved DEMO4 works with SEGA glasses
on my machine as well.

BUT -- I get 2 *very faint* "ghost" images of all objects (or the ones
I'm looking at anyway, such as the rotating sculpture).  There is one
ghost image to the left and one to the right of the "real" object, about
2cm away on my display.

I had to set up my own STEREOSET parameters to be able to view the
3-D images properly, due to the fact that I'm using a 12" B/W VGA monitor.
(I couldn't get my eyes to converge the images otherwise.  What exactly
does the "Convergence" parameter describe?  Diagrams anyone?)

I'm also using an OAK VGA card, so the odds aren't in my favour to start
with!  The feeling of depth in the image is very strong though.

How much would using a B/W monitor affect things (persistence of mono
phosphors etc...)?  I've been told that there's a slight problem with 
the colour green on Colour Monitors due to the low transmittance of
green through LC panels -- has anyone noticed this?

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH        >> NB: E-mail Address Changed 4-Sep-92! <<

From tkl@inel.gov  Mon Sep  7 11:33:53 1992
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	id <AA02191>; Mon, 7 Sep 92 11:33:53 -0400
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	(4.1/INEL-MH-10.0) id AA12862; Mon, 7 Sep 92 09:04:39 MDT
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 09:04:39 MDT
Message-Id: <9209071504.AA12862@mica.inel.gov>
To: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: New DEMO4
Cc: rend386@sunee

Chris says:

>Just to report that the new, improved DEMO4 works with SEGA glasses
>on my machine as well.
>
>BUT -- I get 2 *very faint* "ghost" images of all objects (or the ones
>I'm looking at anyway, such as the rotating sculpture).  There is one
>ghost image to the left and one to the right of the "real" object, about
>2cm away on my display.
>
>I had to set up my own STEREOSET parameters to be able to view the
>3-D images properly, due to the fact that I'm using a 12" B/W VGA monitor.
>(I couldn't get my eyes to converge the images otherwise.  What exactly
>does the "Convergence" parameter describe?  Diagrams anyone?)
>
>I'm also using an OAK VGA card, so the odds aren't in my favour to start
>with!  The feeling of depth in the image is very strong though.
>
>How much would using a B/W monitor affect things (persistence of mono
>phosphors etc...)?  I've been told that there's a slight problem with 
>the colour green on Colour Monitors due to the low transmittance of
>green through LC panels -- has anyone noticed this?
>
Chris:

Sega and Toshiba glasses both work well on my 386/16.  I also see some
faint ghosts.  Things are REALLY weird until I turn off the compass,
position display, and the frame rate display.  Haven't noticed any green
color problems.  I have noticed that as I zoom (or move) in or zoom (or
move away) out from objects, there is a point at which multiple images of
all objects in the scene appear.  I presume that this is related to
convergence but havn't experimented with the convergence parameter to see
what happens.

Are your menus "invisible?"  (I am using the 9/2/92 version of Demo4.)
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From tkl@inel.gov  Tue Sep  8 15:33:55 1992
Received: from mica-nsf.INEL.GOV by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA15053>; Tue, 8 Sep 92 15:33:55 -0400
Received: from [134.20.11.97] (slough.INEL.GOV) by mica.inel.gov
	(4.1/INEL-MH-10.0) id AA27582; Tue, 8 Sep 92 11:38:41 MDT
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 11:38:41 MDT
Message-Id: <9209081738.AA27582@mica.inel.gov>
To: cph@dmu.ac.uk
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: Re: New DEMO4
Cc: rend386@sunee

>tkl@gov.inel said:
>> Sega and Toshiba glasses both work well on my 386/16.  I also see some
>> faint ghosts.  Things are REALLY weird until I turn off the compass,
>> position display, and the frame rate display.
>
>I'm not sure about this -- I'll have to experiment more.  What is it
>thats "really weird" before you switch the extra displays off?
>

My eyes uncontrollably go crossed!

>> 
>> Are your menus "invisible?"  (I am using the 9/2/92 version of Demo4.)
>
>Well, I can't see them. ;-)
>
>I presume this is a small bug that's crept in (the menus are probably
>on the page that's not being displayed).

Probably since I see a glimpse of the menu occasionally.

>
>Where did you get your Toshiba glasses?  The way the dollar is at the 
>moment I might be tempted to get some direct from the states.
>
Mail order direct from REEL 3-D Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 2368
Culver City, CA 90231 USA
Phone (310) 837-2368
Fax (310) 558-1653
$75.00 US + S&H

>Chris
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Sep  8 19:02:58 1992
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	id <AA17655>; Tue, 8 Sep 92 19:02:58 -0400
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:02:44 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 00:02:41 BST
Message-Id: <9172.9209082302@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Graphics cards?

Hi everyone,

I've had such hassle with windows recently that I want to bin
my OAK VGA card and get something slightly better.

What VGA cards are rend386 users out there using?

I want something cheap (so TMS340x0 cards are out!), but fast
for the money.  I'd prefer something that will do SVGA resolutions
(ie. 1024x768x256).

Best UK prices I've seen so far are 45 pounds for a trident 8900c/1Mb
and 79 pounds for a Tseng ET4000 -- are these any good?  I've no idea.
There seem to be some cards based on a new NCR chipset that are 
reasonably-priced too, but again I know nothing about it.

Any information is appreciated -- e-mal directly to me please,
since this is not really rend386-specific.

Thanks!

Chris

From rodw@scs.leeds.ac.uk  Fri Sep 11 18:31:26 1992
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	id <AA25174>; Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:31:26 -0400
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          Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:05:30 BST
From: rodw@scs.leeds.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:05:27 BST
Message-Id: <16910.9209111605@csparc3.scs.leeds.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: RE: more info wanted on the Toshiba glasses


>There has been some discussion of the Toshiba glasses in recent posts
>and I was wondering if anyone has a set of specs:  lcd size; resolution;
>number of colours, etc.

Ho hum, I just realised my mistake; resolution and number of colours
will depend on what you look at through the glasses.  

Sorry,

rod

From rodw@scs.leeds.ac.uk  Fri Sep 11 18:36:24 1992
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	id <AA25185>; Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:36:24 -0400
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          Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:15:45 BST
From: rodw@scs.leeds.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:15:42 BST
Message-Id: <16488.9209111515@csparc3.scs.leeds.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: more info wanted on the Toshiba glasses

Hi,

There has been some discussion of the Toshiba glasses in recent posts
and I was wondering if anyone has a set of specs:  lcd size; resolution;
number of colours, etc.

Thanks in advance for info,

rod
----
Roderick Williams          rodw@cbl.leeds.ac.uk

From tkl@inel.gov  Fri Sep 11 19:22:26 1992
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	id <AA25410>; Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:22:26 -0400
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	(4.1/INEL-MH-10.0) id AA25678; Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:22:06 MDT
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:22:06 MDT
Message-Id: <9209112322.AA25678@mica.inel.gov>
To: rodw@scs.leeds.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
From: tkl@inel.gov
Subject: RE: more info wanted on the Toshiba glasses

>>There has been some discussion of the Toshiba glasses in recent posts
>>and I was wondering if anyone has a set of specs:  lcd size; resolution;
>>number of colours, etc.
>
>Ho hum, I just realised my mistake; resolution and number of colours
>will depend on what you look at through the glasses.  
>
>Sorry,
>
>rod

Rod:

Here are some of the specs from my Tohsiba "3-D Scope" (LCD shutter
glasses) Owners Manual:

Model:  VDG3D1
Head band internal circumference:  52 - 61 cm
Liquid crystal shutter dimensions:   4.3 cm long X 7.4 cm wide (each lens)
Cord:  80 cm lead wire 3.5 mm dia stero plug, 4 m extension cord with 3.5
mm dia plug/jack
Weight: 180 g
Dimensions:  21.5 cm wide, 24.2 cm deep, 9.5 cm high
Allowed ambient temperature:  5 - 40 C

I am quite pleased with the glasses.
--
tkl
--
---------------------------------------------------
T. K. Larson, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory
P.O. Box 1625, M/S 2090
Idaho Falls, Idaho 83415-2090
Phone (208) 525-5334; Fax (208) 525-5996
INTERNET: tkl@inel.gov
---------------------------------------------------


From ko@komac.hobby.nl  Sat Sep 19 18:57:55 1992
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	id AA00440; Sat, 5 Sep 92 19:46:27 WET DST
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 19:46:27 WET DST
From: ko@komac.hobby.nl (Ko Stoel)
Message-Id: <9209051846.AA00440@komac>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: stop rend386 mail

 PSE skip  ko@komac.hobby.nl from the REND386 mailing list
Thanks


From HAINS@STETSON.BITNET  Tue Sep 22 15:16:27 1992
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 <01GP37BCCKOW0001MZ@stetson.bitnet>; Tue, 22 Sep 1992 14:39 EST
Date: 	Tue, 22 Sep 1992 15:39:00 -0400
From: HAINS@STETSON.BITNET
Subject: SUBSCRIBE ME
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GP37BCCKOW0001MZ@stetson.bitnet>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

SUBSCRIBE ME

From thiel@u.washington.edu  Tue Sep 22 15:40:47 1992
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	id <AA22755>; Tue, 22 Sep 92 15:40:47 -0400
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.22 ) id AA26339; Tue, 22 Sep 92 12:40:45 -0700
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 12:40:45 -0700
From: me me me me... <thiel@u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <9209221940.AA26339@hardy.u.washington.edu>
Sender: thiel@hardy.u.washington.edu
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: help

   I am trying to make a basic little rendering program using rend386 that will
just load and display a plg file, just to get a feel of rend386.  I'm writing
it on Borland C++ v2.0 and it compiles correctly.  However, when i try to make
an EXE file out of it the rendering libraries always have errors.  I have a feing that this is because of my program being in C++ and the others in "normal"
c, but I'm just learning C and would like some opinions on this.

Thanks in advance...

thiel

From thiel@u.washington.edu  Mon Sep 28 04:53:15 1992
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Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 01:53:14 -0700
From: me me me me... <thiel@u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <9209280853.AA01565@hardy.u.washington.edu>
Sender: thiel@hardy.u.washington.edu
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: ...




   How exactly do you set the demo to get it to do non-glasses 3d viewing?
I know it has something to do with stereoright and -left, but please tell me
*all* the steps you did if you got this to work...

thanks, thiel




From broehl  Tue Sep 29 09:53:22 1992
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA11052>; Tue, 29 Sep 92 09:53:22 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9209291353.AA11052@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 libraries available
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 9:53:22 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


The latest REND386 libraries are now available for ftp.

The long delay was partly due to a seasonal disruption; Dave moved to a
different city and began a Masters degree, and Bernie has been busy getting
things set up for the start of the Fall semester.

The libraries are in devel4.zip, and the latest version of the demo (not
much different from the last time you saw it) is in demo4.zip; both are
on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386 directory.

The current IP address for sunee.uwaterloo.ca is 129.97.50.50; note
that this has changed since the last release.  If you're at a site that has
a working nameserver, you won't need to worry about this.

If you don't have access to ftp, you can use the ftpmail service; just send
a mail message with the word help in the body (not the subject line!) to
ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com, and you'll receive mail back telling you how to use
the service.  (If you have problems using ftpmail, mention them in an
appropriate newsgroup -- not to the rend386 list!).

As before, neither Dave nor I have time to service requests for floppy disks
in the mail, or uuencoded files sent via email, or what have you.  We'd much
rather be working on the software.

Remember to transfer .zip files in binary mode, both when ftp'ing and when
downloading to your local 386 system.  This is by far the most common mistake
people run into when getting the package.  Also be sure to use the -d option
to pkunzip (or whatever unzipper you're using), since the zip files
expand into several subdirectories.

If you get devel4.zip, you should also get demo4.zip (since some of the doc
files in it are referred to by the docs in devel4.zip).

Note that some of the incompatabilities with different C compilers have
been fixed, but not all.  I'm developing using Turbo C++ version 1.00,
Dave is using a recent version of Borland C 3.00-something; both work fine.

Several people have reported attempts to port to Microsoft C,
but have found it impossible for a variety of reasons.  If anyone is
successful, please post your results.

Changes in the most recent version (version 4.00)

- coordinate system is now standardized (true left-handed system, not hybrid)

- Support for single-vertex polys, displayed as single points on-screen

- objects now keep track of what objlist they're on; therefore:

  - remove_from_objlist() no longer takes an objlist as its first parameter,
    but now returns the objlist the object was on before it got removed
  - next_in_objlist(), prev_in_objlist(), is_first_in_objlist() and
    is_last_in_objlist() no longer take an objlist as their first parameter

- new function: walk_objlist()

- splitting planes added to help reduce visibility errors

- "areas" added

- very simple "multi-tasking" added

- copy_obj function removed (should be at a higher level)

- object_bounds() renamed to get_object_bounds()

- support for multiple representations of an object

- various changes to all the segment-handling routines; no longer compatable
  with the old code, so be sure to check the documentation

- fast horizon-drawing

- faster palette loading, so faster startup

- high-resolution timer routines

- smarter joystick handling

The 3D pointer-handling code has also been rewritten, and is not compatable
with the old version.  Caveat programmer.

This may be the last release for a while (a few months), since both of us are
busy with other projects (mostly related to REND386).  For those of you
who are hoping for texture mapping (and there seem to be a lot of you), all
we can say right now is "stay tuned".

If you have any questions/problems/etc, please direct them to Bernie
(broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca) or Dave (dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca)
and we'll try to help.  Please don't post things directly to the
list unless you're sure they'll be of general interest; we're trying
to keep mailing list traffic as light as possible.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From broehl  Thu Oct  1 09:47:44 1992
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA12627>; Thu, 1 Oct 92 09:47:44 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210011347.AA12627@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386.CFG
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 9:47:43 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The file 'rend386.cfg' was accidentally left out of demo4.zip (again).

The zip file has been updated; here's rend386.cfg itself, just so you
don't have to re-download the zip file:
[-------- cut here ---------- ]
# the default REND386 configuration file
# 3/9/92 by Dave Stampe

# leaving out this file defaults OK
# {} gives a list of options: end list to use defaults from then on
# these are the possible commands:

# videodev  { v16.rvd v256.rvd <or other driver> }  vdmode  # sets video driver: vdmode may be needed by driver
# mousedev  { mouse <or other driver> }   # sets 2D or 2.5D mouse driver
# headdev   { <a 3D or 6D head tracker driver> }     # sets head tracking driver
# videodev  { v16.rvd v256.rvd <or other driver> }   # sets video driver
# switchdev { sega <or other driver> }    # loads a stereo shutter driver


# For these, sx..srz are floats for translation/rotation scaling
# defaults should be 1 1 2 1 1 1
# they are turned on with the /g option, and the pointer takes precedence
#
# glovedev { pglove <or other driver> } sx sy sz srx sry srz # sets glove driver
# ptrdev   { <a 3D or 6D driver> }      sx sy sz srx sry srz # sets pointer driver

# glovecursor { <a .fig glove file, handsm.fig is default } # sets glove cursor
# ptrcursor   { <a .plg pointer file } # sets 3D/6D pointer cursor

# Sets Sega driver output: able to share port with glove thru masking
# all values hex: default is {com1:3fc com2:2fc} 30 30 20 00 00
#
# segaport <adr> <write mask> <left> <right> <off> <initial port value>

# Sets Powerglove driver output: able to share port with Sega thru masking
# all values hex: default is 379 378 3 0 2 1 3 10 00
#
# pgloveport <inadr> <outadr> <write mask> <C0L0> <C0L1> <C1L0> <C1L1> <input mask> <initial port value>

# Sets Powerglove timing delays: default is 12 140
#
# pglovetime <bit delay> <byte delay>

# Sets all stereoscopic parameters (stop any time in list)
# default is 600 250 320 50 600 1.0  -- all physical parameters in mm
#
# stereoset <scrn dist> <scrn width> <pixels> <eye sp> <convergence> <world scale>

# Sets up type of stereo display. SWITCH is "flicker", SPLIT is 2 windows on screen,
# SEPARATE is different VGA cards (needs special hardware and video driver).
#
# stereotype { OFF SWITCH SEPARATE SPLIT }

# These set special parameters for stereo windows, for HMD's etc.  You can split
# the screen into windows, use "rotated" display devices, mirrors, lenses, etc.
#
# stereoleft  <x pixel shift> <x flip flag> <rotate angle> <left edge> <top edge> <right edge> <bottom edge>
# stereoright <x pixel shift> <x flip flag> <rotate angle> <left edge> <top edge> <right edge> <bottom edge>

# Now a default file similar to startup:

videodev vd256.rvd                 # 256-color 320x200 VGA Y-mode
# videodev vd16.rvd                # 16-color 320x200 VGA Y-mode
mousedev mouse                     # internal mouse driver
# mousedev mousedrv.rpd            # test external mouse driver
glovedev pglove 1 1 3 1 1 1        # internal powerglove driver, extra long reach
glovecursor handsm.fig             # default glove cursor
switchdev sega                     # internal Sega driver

segaport   3fc 3 3 1 0 0           # com1: change 3fc to 2fc for com2
pgloveport 379 378 3 0 2 1 3 10 00
pglovetime  12 140
stereoset   600 250 320 50 600 1.0
stereotype  OFF                    # may be overriden by -x or -m or -w from command line

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon Oct  5 20:07:20 1992
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	id <AA29294>; Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:07:20 -0400
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:51:19 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 00:50:57 BST
Message-Id: <1505.9210052350@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: DEMO/DEVEL 4.1 problems

Hi,

Has anyone out there compiled the 4.1 release of the
REND386 libraries yet?

After hacking around with the makefile I get an out-of-memory
error on world.c, and can't currently work out out to get
the compiler to co-operate.

But to do that I had to mess around with the makefile a lot.

Why doesn't the makefile have stuff like:

	CC	= tcc
	CCFLAGS = -ml -c -P-c -1 -G -wall

	banana.obj: banana.c
		$(CC) $(CCFLAGS) banana.c

in it, rather than calling tcc/tlink/tlib explicitly??
Then all you have to do is change the definition of
"CC", instead of messing around doing search&replace
all over the place... (I use "bcc" or "bccx").

[Aside: what is the probability of being able to port
 to other compilers, such as MS C or GNU CC??]


Anyway, a couple of more serious problems:

	1. SEGASUPP.C is size zero (0) bytes.  Is this
	   intentional??

	2. When I run demo4 on my machine (now a 386DX/40
	   since the operation) It works fine (except
	   complaining about being "not on any object"
	   all the time if the mouse driver isn't loaded),
	  but AFTER running it and returning to DOS,
	   executing the "mem" command hangs the machine
	   and it needs a hard reset.

	   Is something not getting put back right?  I'm
	   running MS-DOS 5.0 with HIMEM.SYS & EMM386 (noems)
	   and have stacks=10,512... although it still happens
	   with a "skeleton" configuration, come to think of it.


Also, I would like to hack up a higher-resolution video driver
(unless there already is one), say 640x480x256 -- a 1Meg
SVGA card should be able to double-buffer this OK if not
doing stereo, right?

Well, the vdrivers.doc file says to look at the source for the
16- and 256-colour drivers.  So where is it?!?  

Apart from this REND386 is still great, and a hell of a lot
faster on my new motherboard, so things are not *that* bad...


Cheers,

Chris

From broehl  Mon Oct  5 22:17:01 1992
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA00880>; Mon, 5 Oct 92 22:17:01 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210060217.AA00880@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: DEMO/DEVEL 4.1 problems (fwd)
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 22:17:00 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I actually replied directory to Chris Hand on this, but I forgot the
response wouldn't go to the list.  Here's a (slightly different?)
version of what I sent him...

> Has anyone out there compiled the 4.1 release of the
> REND386 libraries yet?

Yes.   :-)
 
> After hacking around with the makefile I get an out-of-memory
> error on world.c, and can't currently work out out to get
> the compiler to co-operate.

Could be you have less available free memory on your system that I do on
mine; I haven't run into this.

> Why doesn't the makefile have stuff like:
> 	CC	= tcc
> 	CCFLAGS = -ml -c -P-c -1 -G -wall

It should, and will in the next release.

> [Aside: what is the probability of being able to port
>  to other compilers, such as MS C or GNU CC??]

Not Microsoft (they don't have 386 inline support yet, apparently).
I haven't tried GNU CC.

> 	1. SEGASUPP.C is size zero (0) bytes.  Is this
> 	   intentional??

There is no segasupp.c; there's a segasupp.h file in the include directory
and a sgsppt.c in the sega directory.  Neither is zero-length.

> 	2. When I run demo4 on my machine
> 	   It works fine but AFTER running it and returning to DOS,
> 	   executing the "mem" command hangs the machine
> 	   and it needs a hard reset.
> 	   Is something not getting put back right?

We do take over the timer interrupt vector.  If for some reason rend386
aborts without having a chance to restore that vector, things will be fine
until some other program overwrites the memory that held our interrupt
service routine.  At that point, the first timer tick would send the system
off into the weeds.  I don't know why rend386 would abort, though.

> 	   I'm running MS-DOS 5.0 with HIMEM.SYS & EMM386 (noems)

Same here.

> 	   and have stacks=10,512...

I don't have a "stacks=" at all.
 
> Also, I would like to hack up a higher-resolution video driver
> (unless there already is one), say 640x480x256 -- a 1Meg
> SVGA card should be able to double-buffer this OK if not
> doing stereo, right?

Should work, but it'll be much much slower.

> Well, the vdrivers.doc file says to look at the source for the
> 16- and 256-colour drivers.  So where is it?!?  

Dave is preparing it now... should be available soon.

> Apart from this REND386 is still great, and a hell of a lot
> faster on my new motherboard, so things are not *that* bad...

Thanks for the kind words...

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Mon Oct  5 23:04:15 1992
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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 21:04:16 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210060304.AA23176@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: REND386

Chris

I tried to compile the complete system using BC 3.1 BCC and BCCX.  I ran
into problems with the files /sega/sgsppt.c, /sega/timer, /supp/pcxmodey.c
and /userint/joystick.  They gave an intrinsic error.  But I could! compile
them in the environment using BC.  I also received the out of memory 
error using BCCX, I have 16mb of RAM so something is certainly not right.

My system hanged after running the newly compiled code when I ran
F-Protect virus checker.

joe

From snoswell@itd.adelaide.edu.au  Tue Oct  6 01:43:22 1992
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From: Michael Snoswell <snoswell@itd.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <9210060543.AA08367@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: BCC memory problems
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 15:13:04 CST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


In regards to compiling the rend386 code....

>
>I actually replied directory to Chris Hand on this, but I forgot the
>response wouldn't go to the list.  Here's a (slightly different?)
>version of what I sent him...
>
[deleted bits]
>
>Not Microsoft (they don't have 386 inline support yet, apparently).
>I haven't tried GNU CC.
>

MSC 7.0 does inline assembler, if someone cares to try it.

[deleted bits]
>
>> 	   I'm running MS-DOS 5.0 with HIMEM.SYS & EMM386 (noems)
>
>Same here.
>
>> 	   and have stacks=10,512...
>
>I don't have a "stacks=" at all.
> 

Changing stacks from the default (8,128 I think) uses a heap more
memory (no pun intended). Change emm386 to have EMS and specify how
much memory, just by adding a bumber, in kb, to the line, perhaps
1000. BCC will then have 1meg more memory! I thought BCC would find
the extra memory itself, seems it's not smart enough.

Remember on a 4meg machine, if you do this, windows 3.1 will see less
than 4 meg of memory and start up in standard mode!

cheers
	Michael Snoswell

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Snoswell                         snoswell@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au  
  Vision Systems Limited                   +61 8 343 0610 <- note the change
  South Australia                          "Profound and witty quote"

From agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil  Tue Oct  6 13:46:34 1992
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	id AA10039; Tue, 6 Oct 92 13:46:23 EDT
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 13:46:23 EDT
From: agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner)
Message-Id: <9210061746.AA10039@afterlife.ncsc.mil>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: delete

Please remove my name from the distro list.
Thanx
agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Tue Oct  6 13:55:14 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210061755.AA26614@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386

Gentleman,

  I have a question.  Are you going to release a set of libraries that are
not tied to the demo program?  In order to create a simple skeleton program
for use with version 4, like we had for version 3, we had to go through
just about every source file and delete demo4 specific routines.  For instance,
world.c need anim.c for the spinner routines, etc.  We really have no need
for these in a generic program. 

  The reason I ask is.  I will now be using these new libraries with all of
my future programming in Rend386.  When I release the applications to 
public domain, I will also have to release all of the libraries so 
someone can recompile the application source if they wish.  This will lead
to different "versions" of version 4 in public domain.  

  It also becomes quite frustating for someone developing in Rend386.  They
will also have to spent the time deleting the unnecessary code.

joe

From eosvcr!aew@wimsey.bc.ca  Tue Oct  6 17:08:37 1992
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	via UUCP; Tue, 06 Oct 92 08:17:44 PDT
	for rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: compiling REND386
From: aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Alan Walford)
Message-Id: <yua9RB1w165w@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 08:14:33 PDT
Organization: Eos Systems Inc, Vancouver, B.C., Canada

You can forget MSC 7.0 for compiling REND386. We tried and tried but
could not get it to work.

Yes, MSC 7.0 has an inline assembler but it does _not_ understand
386 instructions and registers. There is a version of the compiler that
comes with Windows NT from Microsoft (in beta form) that handles 32 bit
code and will compile 386 and 486 instructions.

We are currenly playing with linking to the supplied REND386 libraries
using other MSC code and the MSC linker. So far so good. I'll let folks
know if I get it to work.

Al

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Walford                         [Eos Systems Inc.    Tel: 604-734-8655]
aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca    OR   ..uunet!van-bc!eosvcr!aew

From lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au  Tue Oct  6 18:47:22 1992
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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 08:50:06 EST
From: lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au (andrew longhorn )
Message-Id: <9210062250.AA15298@mehta>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: handball game?


I noticed a handball game made with rend386...

Is it PD or not? Where can I get it?
Is the source available?

Anyone know?

Andrew Longhorn.

lonachon@mehta.anu.edu.au

From 72330.770@compuserve.com  Tue Oct  6 21:45:55 1992
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Date: 06 Oct 92 12:33:41 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72330.770@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee>
Subject: Rel 4 problems
Message-Id: <921006163341_72330.770_EHL32-2@CompuServe.COM>

Over in the Compuserve world, we have had some similar problems with
devel4.zip.
 I modified the makefiles to use BCC and a CFLAGS. Had to include
the -P-c option so the default option is .c not .cpp.

 We noticed the segasupp.c in the include directory. Also that the
makefile for building the release specificially adds it to the zip.
Bernie, *please* check the makefiles carefully for next release.
 I'd suggest unzipping them into a new area and trying a rebuild
from the release files before posting.

We had another problem in that the Demo4.zip we have is old and 
doesnt include the driver executables. Bernie emailed me the 
vd16.rvd and vd256.rvd files, but when i run demo4.exe with these
i get a green screen and no response to the keyboard. I think we 
will wait for the driver source release, then get all the zips.

I have MSC 7.0 so i will try compiling with it that this weekend.

I will also be demo'ing REND386 and some other homebrew VR stuff 
Oct29 at the Electronic Cafe in Santa Monica to the IICS's local 
VR-SIG. Event is in cooperation with the CyberArts festival in
Pasadena that weekend.

I have a great lead on hooking 
up the sega glasses +rend to a widescreen NTSC projector. One of our 
CIS members has done it. i'll replicate it then post the results.

Jerry Isdale
Group 3 Project Leader.

From broehl  Wed Oct  7 09:24:05 1992
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	id <AA22701>; Wed, 7 Oct 92 09:24:05 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210071324.AA22701@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: handball game? (fwd)
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 9:24:03 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

According to andrew longhorn:
> I noticed a handball game made with rend386...
> 
> Is it PD or not? Where can I get it?
> Is the source available?

I'd like to know too!  If it's PD, I'd like to include it with the
distribution, or at least make it available for ftp from sunee.uwaterloo.ca

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Oct  7 18:46:42 1992
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:46:29 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 23:39:06 BST
Message-Id: <26498.9210072239@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: compilation probs

I still haven't managed to get past the "out of memory" error
I mentioned yesterday.  

I tried all different combinations of EMM386/stacks and using
EMS or XMS with BCC/BCCX, but I still get this error, always
at the same line:

---8x---cut-here------
MAKE  Version 3.5  Copyright (c) 1991 Borland International

Available memory 549888 bytes

        bcc -ml -P-c -wall -Ic:\borlandc\include -Lc:\borlandc\lib -1 -G -c world
Borland C++  Version 2.0 Copyright (c) 1991 Borland International
world.c:
Error world.c 530: Out of memory in function read_world
*** 1 errors in Compile ***

        Available memory 209552

** error 1 ** deleting world.obj
----8x-----------------------

The only thing I can think of is that since the level of "nesting"
at line 530 is about 8 levels deep, BCC is running out of internal
stack space???  Surely this can't be though, I mean -- 8 levels!?

Can someone who's managed to use BC++2.0 to compile the latest
release please *e-mail* me a copy of the makefile they've made?

Thanks,

Chris

--
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH        >> NB: E-mail Address Changed 4-Sep-92! <<

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Oct  7 19:19:47 1992
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Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:19:34 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210072319.AA00249@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  compilation probs

Chris,

  Have you tried to compile it using the BC environment.  I did this and it
compiled fine.  

joe

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Thu Oct  8 13:27:43 1992
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 13:28:08 EDT
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: BC 3.1


Found the first problem with BC++ 3.1 -- DON'T use the 80386 code compile
option.  The interrupt routine headers DO NOT save the upper 16 bits of
the extended registers, leading to some rather puzzling crashes.  Also,
I'd avoid using the 80387 option for much the same reason.

Memory problems during compilation: install the extended memory option,
and for debugging, use TD386 and it's EMM driver (see the program docs).
I had the same problems at first.

I'll have the driver code out soon-- I wanted to make sure the bug I was
chasing wasn't in the interface code.

Bernie and I are working on a project that requires a number of fairly coworlds to be created in a short time.  Can anyone make a few?  I'll post more
about it later on.

- Dave Stampe

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Oct  8 18:11:13 1992
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:10:26 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <9042.9210082203@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: I'm going to cry!
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 23:02:59 BST
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Still can't compile world.c.

Can somebody PLEASE put me out of my misery and e-mail
me a uuencoded copy of world.obj so I can get on with what
I want to do...?  (fingers crossed that the problem
doesn't happen with any of the other files...)


Thanks!

Chris


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Oct  8 18:42:57 1992
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:42:41 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 23:42:18 BST
Message-Id: <9236.9210082242@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: REND386 Handball demo

There was a rumour recently about a handball game
that uses REND386.

This morning I received issue 5 of PCVR, which includes
an article on creating a racketball court and stuff,
which claims will be extended into a proper application
in future issues.

Is this what started the rumour (all you get at the moment
is a court with a static ball in it), or has Joe Gradecki
actually written our first proper GAME??!

Joe: Did you write this article or was it someone else?
     You really should include author's names at the start
     of articles! (unless it's just modesty!).

Chris

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Oct  8 19:45:36 1992
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Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 17:43:37 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210082343.AA23140@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  REND386 Handball demo

Chris,

 It began as modesty but will be changed in issue 7 when we change the
format of the magazine in anticipation of going glossy.  Yes, I 
am writing a handball/racquetball game.  The game is almost 
operational as we speak.  

  THis is just the start of many applications readers of PCVR will 
be seeing.

joe

From broehl  Fri Oct  9 09:58:32 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210091358.AA25081@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 driver kit now available
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 9:58:31 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The file /pub/rend386/drkit.zip on sunee.uwaterloo.ca now contains the source
code for the drivers.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From broehl  Fri Oct  9 11:54:43 1992
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	id <AA26936>; Fri, 9 Oct 92 11:54:43 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210091554.AA26936@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 zip files updated
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 11:54:42 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The only change was deleting the bogus zero-length segasupp.c file and
updating the makefiles to use "CC = tcc" etc.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Fri Oct  9 12:16:45 1992
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 12:17:11 EDT
To: rend386@sunee

WANTED-- REND386 WORLDS

Now that Release 4 of REND386 is (finally) out, we are working 
on a book based on REND386.  For this, we need 10-15 worlds, in 
addition to the few that we've thrown together for test 
purposes.  We'd like to invite you to create worlds for 
inclusion.
The catch is that we really need them by November 15 at the 
latest.  

You won't have to program to create the worlds-- just create 
object (.plg) and world (.wld) script files with an ASCII text 
editor.  All these file formats are documented in the DEMO4.ZIP 
file available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca, along with a 
sample world.

Now to set some ground rules:  you can use the room5.wld file 
and all the objects in it as starting points, but please don't 
bother with simple variations on that world.  We need DIFFERENT 
worlds: such as outdoor scenes, cityscapes, 3D "oddity", and 
anything else you can think of.  Let's show off the 
possibilities of VR!  Try and make the worlds interesting, with 
several manipulable objects, interesting from all angles, etc.

I think it would also be helpful to create an archive of .plg 
objects for use in the worlds.  If you have neat objects, mail 
them to broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, and he'll archive them.  
(Also, has anyone gotten a .dxf translator going yet?)  Objects 
with less than 50 polys are best and you can do neat things with 
20 or so.  We need to keep world poly counts at about 500 or 
less, so that the program will run at a decent speed and won't 
run out of memory on some machines.

The worlds should all use the standard world scale (1.0 mm per 
unit) unless you WANT some sort of minification or you want to 
do an outer-space type scene.  You should also use the standard 
color set, and assume 256 colors and lighting available (you can 
use flat colors for objects as well).  The .wld file docs 
describe these and other things.

Now, a very important point: animation and custom tasks.  In the 
present DEMO4 release, there is only one real task: the 
"sculspin", which just rotates an object.  Because the version 
for the book can be different, we'll entertain suggestions of 
additional simple tasks, such as sensor-dependent motion, linear 
motion with limits, etc.  We'd try to keep a current list of 
accepted tasks so you can design them into your world as well.  
Let's set a deadline of, say, Oct. 17 for new task proposals, 
and hope to have a book-version with them out by Oct. 20 or so.

Additional things to be added to the world files might include 
text pop-ups with world titles or mobile light sources, or 
loading and use of multiple resolution objects.  Suggestions are 
welcome, but keep the deadlines in mind!

If you have ANY questions, or need help in getting something to 
work, please contact dstampe@psych.toronto.edu.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just an engineer dabbling in psychology?|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From broehl  Sun Oct 11 11:31:19 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210111531.AA14649@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 geometric primitives available
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 11:31:19 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The file prims.zip in the pub/rend386 directory on sunee.uwaterloo.ca now
contains a set of plg files for simple geometric primitives.  Included are
sphere, torus, cylinder, cone and truncated cone.

These were all generated using IRIT; the zip file also contains the (very
short) IRIT input file that produced those primitives.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sun Oct 11 23:31:56 1992
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Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 21:32:04 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210120332.AA02652@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee

Gentleman:

  There appears to be a problem with the Sega stereoscopic viewing in 
Rend386.  I recall this problem when the Sega support was first
introduced.

  In a program I have written, I have the eye position (Z) at -1000,
the glove at -300, an object at 1000, and a wall at 2400 all in the Z
direction.

  When I begin the program, the glove is in perfect 3D, but the wall,
and object are seen as two distinct objects.  This is because they are
being rendered at a great distance between each other.  It would appear
after consulting several graphics manuals that they should not be
rendered so far apart at this distance.  Granted they should be small.

  Now my wife, being severly far-sighted can make her eyes fusion the 
two images but periodically will see both representations of the far 
objects.

  This is a severe problem when trying to develop real-world
applications.

joe


From broehl  Mon Oct 12 18:14:07 1992
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	id <AA29866>; Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:14:07 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210122214.AA29866@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 -- updated prims.zip
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:14:06 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The prims.zip file has been updated on sunee.  The .plg files are now in a more
useful orientation, and have been processed through combvert to eliminate the
rendundant vertices.

The prims.irt file has also been modified to set the view_mat to be the
identity matrix, and to save it with each object.

I've also added a "box" object.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Mon Oct 12 18:26:06 1992
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 16:26:11 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210122226.AA04739@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: REND386

I have a third question for you guys:

  Is the switched stereoscopic view simply a view of the scene for each eye?
Meaning that operations from monoscopic should work the same for stereoscopic?

  This relates to the distance problem in the previous question.  When I am
in monoscopic mode, i have a an eye position at 2250,100,
                                                2000,1000,-700.  If I
and a glove at 2250,800,-300.  If I press Y, I rotate the glove 90 degrees
to the right and pan the eye position 90 degrees to the right.  Just a simple
turning of the users body.  This work perfect in monoscopic, the glove is
in the exact same position as it was before the turn.  

  In stereoscopic mode, the panning of the head is beyond 90 degrees and I 
am looking somewhere around 120-150 degrees and the glove is no longer
to the right of the eye a bit but is to the left of the eye by a wide 
margin.

  Any solutions>

joe

From HAINS@STETSON.BITNET  Tue Oct 13 15:04:56 1992
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Date: 	Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:04:00 -0400
From: HAINS@STETSON.BITNET
Subject: DEMO4.EXE problems
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GPWKAXH66O000142@stetson.bitnet>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

 Hello, everyone!
        I have been experiencing some problems unzipping demo4 on my system.
All files uncompress/shrink properly except demo4.exe (wouldn't you know
it).  Can anyone uuencode it and send it my way?  I am dead in the water
without it.  Thanks so much.

                Bryan Hains
                hains@stetson.bitnet

PS: the site at which I ftp'd it was sunee.uwaterloo.ca.


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Oct 15 18:39:07 1992
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:23:24 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <18502.9210152215@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Flying!
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 23:15:56 BST
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Well, Thanks to James Barnes of Logitech (who kindly e-mailed
me the copy of world.obj my compiler refused to create), I've
managed to hack some stuff up using the devel4 release.

I wanted for a long time to allow movement through the virtual
world using only gestures (point-and-fly!) and I've managed that,
but only by simulating the appropriate key-presses (ie. calling
do_key(UP), do_key(DOWN) etc.).  Is there a better way, or should
there really be functions called move_down(), move_up() etc...?

What I need now is a function to tell me the screen co-ords (x,y)
of a point in world co-ords (x,y,z).  I looked through the sources
and the nearest I can find is xy_transform() in RENDREP.C, but
most of this is in assembler and I don't understand it (plus it's
static).

How about it Dave (or anyone else who knows)?  Is this what I
want or is there something else I can use?

Cheers,

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH        >> NB: E-mail Address Changed 4-Sep-92! <<

From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Fri Oct 16 16:35:29 1992
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Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 16:36:59 EDT
From: "Sean Wall, x2494" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Sega glasses information
To: rend386@sunee

Hi everyone,

        Does anyone have any technical information on the Sega 3D glasses?
(Or info on any shuttering device, for that matter...)  Particularly,
the waveforms involved and some theory on LClenses.  Thanks!

                                -Sean Wall
                                  (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)

From na0s+@andrew.cmu.edu  Sat Oct 17 09:31:45 1992
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Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 09:29:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nicolas Alejandro Arauz <na0s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe me please
Cc: 

Please unsubscribe me.  Thanks a lot!

From broehl  Thu Oct 22 16:55:16 1992
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	id <AA05922>; Thu, 22 Oct 92 16:55:16 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9210222055.AA05922@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 racquetball game
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 16:55:16 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The racquetball game developed by the PCVR folks is now available on
sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386 directory (it's called racball.exe,
and is a self-extracting zip file -- just run the exe and it unpacks itself).

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From taylord@tartarus.uwa.edu.au  Sat Oct 24 16:41:09 1992
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1992 10:25:36 +0800
From: taylord@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (David Taylor)
Message-Id: <199210230225.AA25471@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
To: WALL@taurus.dnet.ge.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Sega glasses information

More info about SEGA glasses can be found on tin under alt.virtual-worlds 
sometimes.
Also check out the ftp site sugrfx.acs.syr.edu in the /pub/vr directory.
They often have articles and documents about 3d viewing techniques.

I gather that sega (and other shutter glasses can't be used with any availible
video displays, as the update rate is not fast enough, though they might work
if you had a fast non-interlaced SVGA display.

Anyway, if you find out any way of CHEAP three dimensional viewing, please let me know.

David Taylor

"Please Don't Bend"

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sat Oct 24 17:00:35 1992
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Fri, 23 Oct 1992 01:47:45 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 92 01:47:13 BST
Message-Id: <1146.9210230047@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: racketball program

Hi,

I just downloaded the racket ball game, and on my PC
it bombs out with a "Divide Error".

I recompiled (after farting about with makefiles) and
it now runs, but the "Racket Dist" display always says
2147483647.  Does this mean that sphere_pretest() is
failing all the time??

I *did* manage to grasp the racket but I wasn't
expecting it.  Without the stereo there is no
way to judge depth (shadows on the floor of the court would
help).

Performance is worse than the other rend386 demos -- perhaps
this is due to processing the ball movement.  I reckon
rend386 has now reached the stage where you either use it only
as a rendering engine, say on a  network, or you stick
some multi-tasking stuff underneath it (make it real time,
why not).  I know which is easier.

It would be nice to think the s/ware could be ported to
some OS more suitable than DOS, but I think this might
be too problematic.  I don't know enough about 386 assembler and
memory models to even know if it's feasible.


At this stage in it's life cycle it seems like rend386 has 
achieved critical mass... There's a very real possibility
that if any more stuff is added ad-hoc then it will fall apart.
For example, there's so much stuff in global variables that
it's easy to write code that stamps on stuff it shouldn't.  

I'm not complaining, just pointing out the dangers.  Bernie
and Dave have achieved a lot in a short time and shown just
what can be done on a PC.  So do we start again from scratch,
re-write some of the stuff, put together a programmer's
code-of-practice or what?  Any ideas?


Chris


From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Sat Oct 24 17:00:57 1992
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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 92 09:51:05 EDT
From: "Sean Wall, x2494" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Demo4 problems
To: rend386@sunee

Hi everyone!

        This is the second time I've sent this message.  I'm not sure if my
local mailer got the first message out or not.
        I can`t seem to get the logo to load when I'm running demo4.  I've
tried with and without the fancy background turned on.  About the only thing
I've noticed that happens is the screen flashes as a toggle the logo on and
off.
        Also, the mirror stereo option (-m) doesn't seem to work either.  I
expected to see both left and right views simultaneously on the screen. 
Instead, I get a single view on the screen.

        Any ideas on what`s happening?

Thanks,
    Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu  Sat Oct 24 20:44:26 1992
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From: "Michael L. Kaufman" <kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu>
Message-Id: <199210250043.AA18340@delta.eecs.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: racketball program
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 92 19:43:52 CDT
In-Reply-To: <1146.9210230047@helios.dmu.ac.uk>; from "Chris Hand" at Oct 23, 92 1:47 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL8]

Chris Hand writes:
> It would be nice to think the s/ware could be ported to
> some OS more suitable than DOS, but I think this might
> be too problematic.  

Far be it for me to interrupt anyone's DOS bashing - after all, it is one of
the more popular net-activities - but what are you talking about? The problem
with the program is not enough cycles. With all the problems DOS has, it isn't
a cycle-eater. Do you think that a multi-tasking OS would make this run faster?
Perhaps you think that a nice window-manager would be just the thing? Unless
you are planning on throwing out all the zippy graphics routines that Dave and
Bernie wrote, you can forget it. I haven't looked at the program yet, but if 
it's too slow, what it needs is optimization, not an O/S switch.

Michael


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sat Oct 24 22:02:15 1992
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Date: Sat, 24 Oct 92 20:01:23 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210250201.AA00409@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  racketball program
Cc: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu

Chirs:
Chris:

  Yes, REND386 is hitting a limit.  Adding Shadow would really be a problem.

  The sphere test should read 14.... until you are close to the racquet as
the docs say.  The global variables are definitly a problem.  As you will
find in issue 6 of PCVR, we have a complete skeleton program and a set
of libraries/objects that will allow you to create easier than from scratch.

Joseph D. Gradecki
Publisher, PCVR

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sat Oct 24 22:06:14 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210250205.AA00418@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: racketball program
Cc: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu

On a 50-80486 the racquetball game runs real nice.  Considerable speedup
can be achieved by better line draw routines as well as taking advantage
of advanced card features.  

Joseph D. Gradecki
Publisher, PCVR

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sat Oct 24 22:21:50 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210250221.AA00460@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: VR

Gentlemen:

  One of the problems with executing Virtual Racquetball may be that you
do not have a coprocessor.  I compiled the program expecting coprocessors. I
will fix this in the next release.  If you do not have a coprocessor, the 
program may not work.  On my 386 without a coprocessor, it hung the machine
good!  Sorry.

  The release of the stereoscopic version will be delayed a few days.  We
just got word that PCVR is now going to be available in a bookstore chain 
in San Hose.  Silicon Valley at its finest.  So we have been involved with
celebrating and legal work.  I will post the new version early next week.

  Joseph D. Gradecki
  Publisher, PCVR

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sat Oct 24 22:22:59 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210250222.AA00465@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: {ose

And yes I know its Jose and not Hose.  Just a typo....

joe
d

From xenitec!tdkcs!syndev!syndev@uunet.ca  Sun Oct 25 08:34:14 1992
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To: rend@genco.bungi.com
Subject: mouse support?
From: syndev@genco.bungi.com (David Thomas Stewart)
Message-Id: <7157sB1w164w@genco.bungi.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 92 05:44:41 CST
Organization: Synergy Development Corporation

I've ftp'ed the racquetball demo and it runs quite nicely on a 486/33 machine
with a ATI VGA Wonder XL+ card.

What i'd like to know is if there is plan to provide mouse support for the game
*albeit limited*. Perhaps:

Roll Mouse Forward/Back = Move hand Up/Down. If almost touching the screen then
                          rotate viewspace up/down. If the Right Mouse Button
                          is held down then Move Forward/Back as the F/B keys
                          currently do.

Roll Mouse Left/Right   = Move hand Left/Right. If almost touching the screen
                          boundaries then rotate viewspace left/right.

Left Mouse Button       = "Spike" Slam hand forwards and snaps it back.


Any takers? Suggestions?

I just think that it would achieve greater "external" appeal if it didn't
require the PowerGlove interface to use.

David.


David Thomas Stewart              syndev@syndev.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Synergy Development Corporation   I program in C++ because it turns women on...


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Wed Oct 28 17:30:34 1992
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Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 15:29:28 -0700
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9210282229.AA00954@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: rend386@sunee



        *********************************************************
        *                      ATTENTION                        *
        *********************************************************


                    PCVR is looking for a columnist!!



With the soon to be introduced PCVR Rendering System, the publisher of
PCVR is looking for someone to take over the WORKING WITH REND386 column.

The focus of the column is to teach REND386 at the system and
application level.  The recent Virtual Racquetball series is an example
of what the column should contain.

The column appears in each issue of PCVR for a total of 6 articles per
year.

** Each column should be 4 to 10 pages including illustrations.
** Any software will be distributed with the magazine.
** Compensation is $20.00 per published article
** Must sign a contract for a minimum of 6 articles.
** Three columns are due by March 1st 1993.
     The remaning columns bimonthly.

If you are interested, please contact Joseph D. Gradecki at

       PHONE/FAX:  (307) 742 7675 or
       EMAIL:      gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu



From zap@lysator.liu.se  Tue Nov  3 06:47:41 1992
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Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 12:46:53 +0100
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199211031146.AA14332@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: TDDD files


At wuarchive.wustl.edu and other places there are files in a format known
as TDDD. They also supply conversion utilities to god and his mothers format,
however not to PLG format.

If someone more ambitious than me gets an urge to write such a beast, would
this kind individual enlighten us on this mailing list when this glorious
task is accomplished?

If I get like REALLY ambitious I'll rather tackle the DXF->PLG convertor, since
I live, eat and breath DXF.

/Z

From brownp@dg-rtp.dg.com  Tue Nov  3 13:44:03 1992
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From: brownp@dg-rtp.dg.com (Peter Brown)
Message-Id: <9211031843.AA13549@stuff>
Subject: Re: TDDD files
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 13:42:59 EST
In-Reply-To: <199211031146.AA14332@robin.lysator.liu.se>; from "zap@lysator.liu.se" at Nov 3, 92 12:46 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I think you can get there with a 2 step process, ie tddd to off, and
off to plg.

>
>
>At wuarchive.wustl.edu and other places there are files in a format known
>as TDDD. They also supply conversion utilities to god and his mothers format,
>however not to PLG format.
>
>If someone more ambitious than me gets an urge to write such a beast, would
>this kind individual enlighten us on this mailing list when this glorious
>task is accomplished?
>
>If I get like REALLY ambitious I'll rather tackle the DXF->PLG convertor, since
>I live, eat and breath DXF.
>
>/Z
>
>


-- 
Peter Brown     -----    Data General Corp.    -----     (919)-248-6009
email: brownp@dg-rtp.dg.com     uucp: {backbone}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!brownp
My views, thoughts, opinions and spelling errors are definitely my own!

From broehl  Tue Nov  3 14:01:56 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9211031901.AA19330@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: TDDD files (fwd)
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 14:01:55 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From zap@lysator.liu.se Tue Nov  3 07:04:32 1992
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 12:46:53 +0100
> From: zap@lysator.liu.se
> Message-Id: <199211031146.AA14332@robin.lysator.liu.se>
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: TDDD files
> 
> At wuarchive.wustl.edu and other places there are files in a format known
> as TDDD. They also supply conversion utilities to god and his mothers format,
> however not to PLG format.

Well, you could just go TDDD->OFF, then use off2plg.

> If I get like REALLY ambitious I'll rather tackle the DXF->PLG convertor,
> since I live, eat and breath DXF.

Yay!  Someone who actually *knows* DXF!  Yes, please -- a converter to either
PLG or OFF would be very, very useful.

You may want to check out the discussion in comp.graphics.animation; they've
got an ftp site set up for 3D objects, and are looking for converters.

I was looking at it DXF to PLG, but got bogged down in some areas; the
extrusion direction for 2D things, and suchlike.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From shrchin@reading.ac.uk  Tue Nov  3 17:57:44 1992
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Via: uk.ac.reading; Tue, 3 Nov 1992 13:18:57 +0000
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From: shrchin@reading.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 13:18:09 GMT
Message-Id: <358.9211031318@shsscsc1>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: TDDD files

Is there any reason why we need a TDDD->PLG converter?

There exists TDDD->OFF and there exists OFF->PLG. Doesn't it work
to catenate the operations?

yours curiously,
jonathan
--
Jonathan H N Chin, 8 kyu \ Dept. of Cybernetics, \ "Respondeo, etsi mutabor"
                          \ University of Reading \
shrchin@uk.ac.rdg.susssys1 \ Box 225, Whiteknights \ < Rosenstock-Huessy >
bq305@cleveland.freenet.edu \ Reading, RG6 2AY, U K \

From broehl  Wed Nov  4 11:33:31 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9211041633.AA06232@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Worlds...
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 11:33:30 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

As some of you know, Dave and I are writing a book (with John Eagan) for the
Waite Group on REND386.

The book will include a disk with an updated version of REND386, and a number
of "worlds" for the reader to explore.

We're looking for people who would be willing to contribute some sample
worlds, in exchange for seeing your name in print.  No coding is necessary;
all we need are .wld, .plg and .fig files.

If you're interested, send me mail and I can give you more details.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From airwick@nick.csh.rit.edu  Wed Nov  4 19:20:14 1992
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From: airwick@nick.csh.rit.edu (Eric "Airwick" Van Hensbergen)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:19:40 EST
In-Reply-To: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
       "Worlds..." (Nov  4, 11:32am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.1 12/20/90)
To: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee>, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Worlds...

I am interested in more information on sumbitting worlds, polygons, and figures
to you're book effort.  What size specifications are you looking at, and what
content are you looking for the worlds?

                -Eric

From se110@di-fcul.fc.ul.pt  Thu Nov  5 03:29:34 1992
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From: Grupo 10 - SE I <se110@di-fcul.fc.ul.pt>
Message-Id: <199211050826.AA00926@di-fcul.fc.ul.pt>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe me



From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Thu Nov  5 10:35:19 1992
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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 10:36:37 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x2494" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Sone questions
To: rend386@sunee

Hello,

        Does anyone know if a 3-D object exists of an airplane, specifically a
jet powered aircraft?  I'm trying to make one for the simulator I'm creating,
and I'd like to see what someone else has done.
        Also, I'm aware that PCVR has an article on building a head mounted
display.  Has anyone sucessfully done this and how much does it cost?


Thanks,

Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon Nov  9 04:27:37 1992
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sun, 8 Nov 1992 00:09:12 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <4259.9211080009@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: debugging .WLD files and SPLITs
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 0:09:05 GMT
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I've just been hacking around getting rid of some visibility errors
in a couple of .WLD files and I think I now understand what SPLITs
are all about (except for the mysterious "flags" that don't seem to
be documented -- back to the source I suppose).

Anyway, assuming that there is at least one other person out there
who still hasn't mastered this, the following spiel on debugging
.WLD files may be of use.


Cheers,

Chris

---8x--cut-here---

DEBUGGING .WLD FILES

From time to time "visibility errors" occur when using REND386, mostly
due to objects being rendered in the wrong order.  This means that objects
that should be obscured are still visible etc.

WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU SPOT A VISIBILITY ERROR
The first thing to do is to find out where and when the error occurs. 
It will almost certainly pop up when the position of the viewpoint (the
"camera" if you like) is within a certain range.  By moving the
viewpoint around (using the arrow keys etc.) you should be able to find
an x, y or z position that makes the error appear and then disappear as
you move one way and then the other.  Once you've found it, record the
position.  Pressing 'D' gives you the exact position as x/y/z, pan/tilt/roll
and zoom values.  

Now edit your .WLD file and comment out the original line beginning with
"START" and create a new one using the values you just recorded.  Now when
you run REND386 with the world file the error will be immediately visible.

Other useful debugging techniques: 
    - Make one or more objects "glass" (select then 'Z', 'A', 'G') so you
      can see through to the other side
    - Change the colour of objects so boundaries are more distinct 
    - Move up/down (ctrl+page up or page down) until a horizontal edge
      lines up exactly with the horizon.  The height of the camera
      (given by pressing 'D') is now the Y co-ordinate of that edge.
 

FIXING THE ERROR
Due to the strategy used by the rendering engine, errors can occur when 
objects are drawn in the wrong order.  Defining splits helps to fix
this (see also SPLITS.DOC in the REND386 distribution).

SPLITS
A split is a plane, in other words it stretches out to infinity in 2
directions, while in the third it has zero thickness.  Defining a split
as the plane y=0 would split our world into two halves: the area above
y=0 and the area below y=0 (remember the positive y-axis points upwards
in the REND386 co-ordinate system).  The important thing about a split
is that it divides (splits) a part of 3-D space into two areas, one on
each side of the splitting plane.

Now to fix the error by adding a split.  The visibility error will
include two or more objects -- some of which will be drawn in the wrong
order (let's assume two objects here).  To fix the error we need to add
a split *between* those objects.

As an simplistic example, suppose we have a tall thin cuboid that's sitting
on a small fat cuboid (call then "Small" and "Big").

           +----+            
          / A  /|
         +----+ | <---------- "Small"
         |    | |
      +--|    | |---+  
     /   |    | +  /|
    /    |    |/  / |
   /     +----+  /  | <------- "Big"
  +-------------+   +
  |             |  /
  |             | /
  |             |/
  +-------------+

Suppose that when we move the viewpoint downwards we get an error due to
the face of Small that's resting on Big (ie. the face opposite face
marked "A") being visible when it shouldn't be.  So we need to add a
split between Small and Big.

If the co-ordinates used are as follows:

           +----+ <---------- y=300  (top face of Small)    
          / A  /|
         +----+ |
         |    | |
      +--|    | |---+ <---------- y=100  (top face of Big)
     /   |    | +  /|
    /    |    |/  / |
   /     +----+  /  |
  +-------------+   + <---------- y=0 (bottom face of Big)
  |             |  /
  |             | /
  |             |/
  +-------------+

...then the splitting plane we need will be at y=100.  We can specify the
split in the world file as

	SPLIT 0,100,0  0,1,0 

This specifies a point (x=0,y=100,z=0) and a "normal", which is a Vector
at 90 degrees to the plane.  As far as I can see the direction of the
normal is not important since we're only really specifying the plane
and not defining what is on one side or the other.  So we could have
said "0,-1,0" and it wouldn't matter.

In general, a split whose normal points along the y-axis will be defined
by:
	SPLIT 0,<y-value>,0   0,1,0

while one whose normal points along the z axis would be

	SPLIT 0,0,<z-value>   0,0,1

So we can add the line defining the split to the .WLD file.  Put the
splits before you define the objects, followed by an "ENDSPLITS"
statement.  NB: *don't* include objects in the SPLITS section unless the
object is actually "on" a split!

Once the split has been added you can run the REND386 program again and
check that the error has gone.  The procedure can then be repeated for
other errors until they've all been fixed.

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Linux: *free* unix for IBM PCs! <<

From broehl  Mon Nov  9 16:45:47 1992
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA25089>; Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:45:47 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9211092145.AA25089@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 starfield generator
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:45:46 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

For those who may be working on non-terrestrial scenes for rend386,
I've written a very simple star field generator (included below).

While star fields don't really look like this (all the stars are very far
away, and you'd never have the sensation of passing "among" them), it's
an effect used quite often in science fiction films and television programs.
Besides, it took all of five minutes to write and test.

Usage is simple:

        plgstars [-c] n >stars.plg

The n is a number indicating the number of stars to generate, and the optional
parameter -c causes them to be assigned random colors (the default is for them
all to be white).

The stars are generated in a 1000 cubic unit box, which can of course be
scaled in a .wld file.  You can also load multiple starfields (or even
multiple copies of the same starfield, displaced and/or rotated) in a single
world file.  For example,

    object stars 10,10,10 0,0,0 -10000,-10000,-10000
    object stars 50,50,50 0,45,90 -20000,-10000,-30000

Since the stars are created in the positive x,y,z octant, the -10000 shift will
center the starfield around the origin.  The second starfield is shifted
somewhat away from the origin.

Keep in mind that each star takes up a fair amount of memory.

[---------------- Clip 'n' Save ---------------------------------------------]

/* Generate a star field as a .PLG file */

/* Written by Bernie Roehl, November 1992 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

int starcount = 100;    /* number of stars to generate */
int colorflag = 0;      /* if non-zero, generate random star colors */

#define FSIZE 1000      /* size of the star field box */

#define STARCOLOR 15    /* stars are, by default, white */

void main(int argc, char *argv[])
    {
    int i;
    randomize();
    while (argc > 1) {
        if (!stricmp(argv[1], "-c")) colorflag = 1;
        else starcount = atoi(argv[1]);
        --argc;
        ++argv;
        }
    printf("starfield %d %d\n", starcount, starcount);
    for (i = 0; i < starcount; ++i)
       printf("%d %d %d\n", random(FSIZE), random(FSIZE), random(FSIZE));
    for (i = 0; i < starcount; ++i)
       printf("0x%04.4X 1 %d\n", colorflag ? (random(15) + 1) : STARCOLOR, i);
    }


From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Mon Nov 16 20:43:38 1992
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From: "Sean Wall, x2494" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: A non-Rend386 question
To: rend386@sunee

Hi folks!

        This is really an unrelated question, but I thought I'd toss this
out to see if anyone has any info.  A friend here at work is looking for
DOS source code/executables of the unix tools 'lex' and 'yacc'.  Does
such a thing exist?  We'd appreciate any information you may have.


                -Sean

                (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From broehl  Fri Nov 20 23:01:08 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9211210401.AA19374@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New REND386-related files on sunee
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 23:01:07 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Thanks to Ed Schindler, we now have a DXF2PLG converter.  It doesn't quite
handle *everything* in the DXF spec, but it handles a pretty good subset.
It can be found on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386/converters directory.

Ed also contributed several objects that can be found in the plgfiles directory.

In the pub/rend386/utils directory you'll find Chris Hand's prism generator
and Mark Pflaging's formula program (generates plg files from mathematical
equations).

I've also cleaned up and reorganized the directory structure a bit, so
you may want to take a fresh look at the read.me files.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From long@next1.acme.ucf.edu  Sat Nov 21 17:43:30 1992
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unsubscribe

From jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi  Wed Nov 25 11:03:46 1992
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 16:03:15 GMT
From: Juri Munkki <jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-Id: <199211251603.AA60746@vipunen.hut.fi>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Other rendering methods?

(This was originally a letter from me to Bernie Roehl)

Hi,	

I just read through all the accumulated messages in the rend386-list.
All my information on how rend386 is based on what was written there.
As I am a Macintosh programmer, I didn't bother to download the code.

During this autumn, I have written my own 3D routines. About a month
ago, I wrote a fairly high performance vector graphics kit that uses
fixed point math and 4x4 matrices. It could be faster, but it's fast
enough for me as it is now.

I've been thinking of writing my own scan-line based polygon renderer
for a few years now (possibly for as long as 10 years), but last
weekend, it all somehow became clear to me and I started coding.
I now have most of the code written (clipping still needs some work,
as does color video support).

I thought I would share some of my ideas with you and possibly get
some feedback from you. The rendering methods of Rend386 and my
system are quite different. I'm mostly talking about the actual
2D polygon rendering here.

I have no idea what the performance of Rend386 is, nor do I know
how my routines would compare with yours on similar hardware. I
know that I get fairly nice performance on my 16Mhz 68020. I don't
think that Apple even produces anything slower than this. I'm
probably going to get a 25 Mhz 68040 pretty soon (a Quadra 700),
which will possibly be up to 10 times faster.

If I understand correctly, your animation proceeds like this:

	- Clear buffer
	- Draw the polygons in sorted order from back to front
	- Switch video buffers

My animation method is like this:

	- Scan convert the polygons into a run-length encoded list
	- Compare this list with the list of the screen that is shown
	  and produce a list of differences
	- Draw only the changes between the two buffers

Your method is good in cases where there is very little time-coherence
in the pictures. Mine is fast when the scene doesn't change much, but
shouldn't do much worse when there are big changes.

The scan conversion starts with all vertices inserted into lists. For
each Y value, there is a list of vertices becoming active on that row
and vertices going away after that row. These lists are built before
the scan conversion. Clipping in the Y direction is also handled at
this stage. (Only clipping against the top Y boundary is necessary.)

The scan conversion proceeds as follows:

	0 Clear active list of vertices

	1 Check the activate list for the current row and
	  add vertices to the active list

	2 Insertion sort the active list according to X

	3 Push a depth priority of 0 into a "depth stack"
	  (really a linked list)

	4 Read a vertex from the active list

	5 If this depth priority exists in the stack,
	  remove that item from the stack

	6 If this depth priority isn't on the stack, insert it there
	  at the right position.

	7 If the top stack item has changed, write the previous top
	  color and boundary for that color into the output.

	8 If there are more vertices in the list, go to step 4

	9 Check the "deactivate" list and remove vertices from
	  the active list according to this list.

	10 For each active vertex, add dx to x. 
	   (dx = (x2-x1)/(y2-y1) in fixed point.)

	11 If there are more rows to process, go to step 1

The insertion sort uses very little time, since most of the time the
vertices are already in order. Only new entries need to be sorted into
the list and this doesn't happen often.

I see several advantages with my approach:

	- Double buffering is not necessary, since changes are drawn
	  very cleanly over the existing buffer.
	- The minimum amount of pixels are changed from frame to frame.
	  This is especially important for 24 bit displays where drawing
	  a single pixel requires a 32 bit move.
	- Screen clears are avoided.
	- No clipping on the X axis is necessary.
	- There are no limitations on what the polygon should be like.
	- Arbitrary clipping polygons can be used. Since there already
	  is a reserved color for "no change", because the RLE comparing
	  routine needs to produce this, this color can also be used for
	  a polygon that has very high priority. The area of the this
	  polygon will not be clipped.
	- Since arbitrary region clipping can be done with very little
	  overhead (the addition of one polygon) and no double buffering
	  has to be done, the routines can easily co-exist with windowing
	  software.
	- Only a very simple video driver has to be implemented for
	  different bit depths. Basically it takes a stream like this
	  for input:

		c0 50 -1 80 c1 82 c2 100 -1 640

	  This would use color or pattern 0 from pixels 0 to 49,
	  ignore 50 to 79, use color c1 from 80 to 81, c2 from 82 to 99
	  and ignore 100 to 639 and then move on to the next video row.
	  (-1 is the ignore color here, c0 is background)

	  A triangle moving one pixel to the right will cause only two
	  pixels to be changed per row:

		-1 100 c0 101 -1 121 c1 122 -1 640

	  My code doesn't assume anything about the resolution, but I
	  used 640 as the X resolution here, since that's what my PowerBook
	  has.

	  My current video driver is for 1-bit deep displays, so in order
	  to be useful, it has to support fill patterns. I use 32x8 patterns.

This turned out to be longer than I expected. Most of the code is in 68K
assembly, so it will not be directly useful to the Rend386 crowd.

I would be very interested to read your comments.

	Juri Munkki
	jmunkki@hut.fi

From jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi  Wed Nov 25 11:07:12 1992
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Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 16:03:15 GMT
From: Juri Munkki <jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi>
Message-Id: <199211251603.AA60746@vipunen.hut.fi>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Other rendering methods?

(This was originally a letter from me to Bernie Roehl)

Hi,	

I just read through all the accumulated messages in the rend386-list.
All my information on how rend386 is based on what was written there.
As I am a Macintosh programmer, I didn't bother to download the code.

During this autumn, I have written my own 3D routines. About a month
ago, I wrote a fairly high performance vector graphics kit that uses
fixed point math and 4x4 matrices. It could be faster, but it's fast
enough for me as it is now.

I've been thinking of writing my own scan-line based polygon renderer
for a few years now (possibly for as long as 10 years), but last
weekend, it all somehow became clear to me and I started coding.
I now have most of the code written (clipping still needs some work,
as does color video support).

I thought I would share some of my ideas with you and possibly get
some feedback from you. The rendering methods of Rend386 and my
system are quite different. I'm mostly talking about the actual
2D polygon rendering here.

I have no idea what the performance of Rend386 is, nor do I know
how my routines would compare with yours on similar hardware. I
know that I get fairly nice performance on my 16Mhz 68020. I don't
think that Apple even produces anything slower than this. I'm
probably going to get a 25 Mhz 68040 pretty soon (a Quadra 700),
which will possibly be up to 10 times faster.

If I understand correctly, your animation proceeds like this:

	- Clear buffer
	- Draw the polygons in sorted order from back to front
	- Switch video buffers

My animation method is like this:

	- Scan convert the polygons into a run-length encoded list
	- Compare this list with the list of the screen that is shown
	  and produce a list of differences
	- Draw only the changes between the two buffers

Your method is good in cases where there is very little time-coherence
in the pictures. Mine is fast when the scene doesn't change much, but
shouldn't do much worse when there are big changes.

The scan conversion starts with all vertices inserted into lists. For
each Y value, there is a list of vertices becoming active on that row
and vertices going away after that row. These lists are built before
the scan conversion. Clipping in the Y direction is also handled at
this stage. (Only clipping against the top Y boundary is necessary.)

The scan conversion proceeds as follows:

	0 Clear active list of vertices

	1 Check the activate list for the current row and
	  add vertices to the active list

	2 Insertion sort the active list according to X

	3 Push a depth priority of 0 into a "depth stack"
	  (really a linked list)

	4 Read a vertex from the active list

	5 If this depth priority exists in the stack,
	  remove that item from the stack

	6 If this depth priority isn't on the stack, insert it there
	  at the right position.

	7 If the top stack item has changed, write the previous top
	  color and boundary for that color into the output.

	8 If there are more vertices in the list, go to step 4

	9 Check the "deactivate" list and remove vertices from
	  the active list according to this list.

	10 For each active vertex, add dx to x. 
	   (dx = (x2-x1)/(y2-y1) in fixed point.)

	11 If there are more rows to process, go to step 1

The insertion sort uses very little time, since most of the time the
vertices are already in order. Only new entries need to be sorted into
the list and this doesn't happen often.

I see several advantages with my approach:

	- Double buffering is not necessary, since changes are drawn
	  very cleanly over the existing buffer.
	- The minimum amount of pixels are changed from frame to frame.
	  This is especially important for 24 bit displays where drawing
	  a single pixel requires a 32 bit move.
	- Screen clears are avoided.
	- No clipping on the X axis is necessary.
	- There are no limitations on what the polygon should be like.
	- Arbitrary clipping polygons can be used. Since there already
	  is a reserved color for "no change", because the RLE comparing
	  routine needs to produce this, this color can also be used for
	  a polygon that has very high priority. The area of the this
	  polygon will not be clipped.
	- Since arbitrary region clipping can be done with very little
	  overhead (the addition of one polygon) and no double buffering
	  has to be done, the routines can easily co-exist with windowing
	  software.
	- Only a very simple video driver has to be implemented for
	  different bit depths. Basically it takes a stream like this
	  for input:

		c0 50 -1 80 c1 82 c2 100 -1 640

	  This would use color or pattern 0 from pixels 0 to 49,
	  ignore 50 to 79, use color c1 from 80 to 81, c2 from 82 to 99
	  and ignore 100 to 639 and then move on to the next video row.
	  (-1 is the ignore color here, c0 is background)

	  A triangle moving one pixel to the right will cause only two
	  pixels to be changed per row:

		-1 100 c0 101 -1 121 c1 122 -1 640

	  My code doesn't assume anything about the resolution, but I
	  used 640 as the X resolution here, since that's what my PowerBook
	  has.

	  My current video driver is for 1-bit deep displays, so in order
	  to be useful, it has to support fill patterns. I use 32x8 patterns.

This turned out to be longer than I expected. Most of the code is in 68K
assembly, so it will not be directly useful to the Rend386 crowd.

I would be very interested to read your comments.

	Juri Munkki
	jmunkki@hut.fi

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Nov 30 19:23:03 1992
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 92 14:35:16 -0800
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9211302235.AA00818@netcom2.netcom.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Lindenmeyer Systems engine available


Hi-

An algorithmic tree-model-generator is available.
Would be very handy for building worlds.

From comp.graphics:

The L-system interpreter graphtal 1.0 is available 
again via anonymous FTP at iamsun.unibe.ch (130.92.64.10) and 
is found as /Graphics/graphtal-1.0.tar.Z or 
/Graphics/graphtal_no_bison_no_flex-1.0.tar.Z.

______________________________________________________________

Sorry for the inconvenience, but we had to remove graphtal
from our FTP server for the following reason:

Jonathan P. Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu) blamed me for not including
references to his L-system package 'lsys'. There's no excuse for
my behaviour. Anyhow, I'd like to apologize for misusing Jon 
Leech's effort in that way and I hope that he is satisfied with 
the references added. Please look at the README file for more 
details.
______________________________________________________________


graphtal is an L-system interpreter and is e.g. useful for the
following tasks:

o generation of geometric objects like trees, plants, 
  skyscrapers, ...
o you can produce different kinds of output including 
  output for rayshade, X11 or ppm (portable pixmap).
o you can use the models produced by graphtal in your own images.
o you can compute animations with graphtal (refer to the examples).
o some example L-system descriptions are included (birchtree, 
  firtree, a plant, ...) to start with.

Features of graphtal:

o  D0L-systems,
o  tables of productions,
o  productions with parameters,
o  stochastically applied productions,
o  global and local constants,
o  hull definitions (turtle interpretation with regard to
   these hulls),
o  production parameters may be strings or real values,
o  animations support,
o  turtle interpreter with macros,
o  preview for X11,
o  Z-buffer preview and output for rayshade.

What you will need:

- C++ compiler 
- bison and flex (if not available get graphtal_no_bison_no_flex.tar.Z)
- rayshade 4.0.6 and the URT toolkit (necessary for the rayshade driver)

Supported platforms:

- Sun SparcStations with Sun C++ 2.1, Sun C++ 3.0, AT&T 2.0, AT&T 3.0
  and g++ 2.2.2
- IBM RS/6000 with AT&T C++ 2.0
- DEC Station with DEC C++ 1.0 or g++

Examples:

In the directory graphtal/Examples some interesting L-systems are 
included. The animation scripts will need nawk or gawk in order
to work.

Please send bugs (accompanied by L-systems causing them),
interesting L-systems for inclusion in the release, enhancements,
and suggestions to the author via email.

Christoph Streit (streit@iam.unibe.ch)



From jonbl@microsoft.com  Wed Dec  2 17:38:25 1992
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From: Jon Blossom <jonbl@microsoft.com>
To: glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov, tkl@inel.gov, rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 13:41:23 PST
Subject: Mac renderer...?
Message-Id:  <9212021439.aa02871@ingate.microsoft.COM>

I'm planning to start working on a complete Mac VR rendering library, 
like Rend386. Part-time.  I'm fishing for ideas for 
features/implementation issues that I should include.

Things I'm planning so far:
 - Fixed point math (usually 16.16)
 - Fast trig functions using lookup tables and linear interpolation
 - Optimized color palette, user-configurable
 - Cosine flat shading
 - Psuedo-transparency using patterned fills
 - Depth-queuing (?)
 - Multiple object representations
 - Structured object inheritances (like Rend386 "segments")
 - Multiple light sources, either directional or point-source (but no shadows)
 - Customizable drivers for mouse/glove/glasses/HMD (?)
 - Question: should I use QuickDraw for polygon fills or use my own routines
     ( I wrote a set of scan-line polygon drawing routines, but QD 
might actually be faster)
 - Non-homogeneous coordinates (3x3 transform matrices) with separate 
translation vector
 - Stereo rendering
 - Viewpoint/Orientation/View Angle view setup parameters
    (Does anyone have any equations/algorithms for this type of projection?)

I have implemented most of these before, in a Mac rendering library I 
wrote about 8 months ago. That library uses double-precision numbers 
and wasn't optimized at all. It can display 500 polys at about 10 
frames/sec on a IIci and can be controlled by a PowerGlove. View setup 
consists of a viewpoint, a focus point/forward vector, and an angle of 
rotation about the z axis.

I hope that I can apply that experience to rewriting, optimizing, and 
general cleaning-up so that I can produce something at least close to 
Rend386 (if such a monumental task is possible). Hopefully, it'll match 
or better Virtus WalkThrough.

Please let me know if you have any comments, code, and/or suggestions. 
Feel free to brainstorm to me through e-mail. I hope to be able to have 
a more solid game plan/specification in a month or two, after which 
coding shouldn't take too long. I hope.

Are there people who would benefit from this? I mean, PC's have had the 
upper hand in homebrew VR for too long..!

(It's not what is seems like. I really don't have time to do this, but 
I'll try anyway!)

-Jon


From hole@phoenix.oulu.fi  Thu Dec  3 14:12:13 1992
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From: hole@phoenix.oulu.fi (Jari K{hk|nen)
Message-Id: <9212031911.AA29409@phoenix.oulu.fi>
Subject: Just a simple c-code...
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 21:11:29 GMT-2:00
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


  Hi,

  I'm doing some coding and I would like to include some rend386-stuff to
my program. The question is: Does anybody have simple c-code program,
which only shows world (loaded from file) from certain viewpoint?
  I don't need joystick-stuff, menus, nothing, just rendering-part. I 
need simple c-code with defines only what it really needs (nothing fancy)
and renders loaded file...
  I don't want to start stripping demo4-code, because I hope somebody has
wrote that routine already...Please, anyone?

  -Jari

Email:hole@phoenix.oulu.fi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jari Kahkonen |Phone:               |Institute of data | MICKEY MOUSE PANTS??? 
Aleksi  56D29 |(Home) +358-81-376980|Processing Science| You dont't look Cool! 
90120 Oulu    | Leave a message to  |University of Oulu|You look like an IDIOT!
Suomi Finland | answering machine   |      T O L       |      -Calvin  
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From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Dec  3 14:57:21 1992
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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 92 12:55:32 -0700
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9212031955.AA29312@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: hole@phoenix.oulu.fi, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Just a simple c-code...
Cc: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu

Sir:

 We outline this very thing in the fifth issue of PCVR.  We also include the
most basic skeleton program necessary for a REND386 program.

Joseph D. Gradecki
Publisher, PCVR

From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Tue Dec  8 08:08:36 1992
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Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 08:11:40 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Splits
To: rend386@sunee

Hi all!
 
        After reading Chris Hand's tutorial on splits, I decided to
check the source code to see how splits are implemented.  Needless to
say, I am confused.  I understand that the splits are defined as a tree
structure with the "leaves" of the tree the actual objects.  My question
is: Do these leaves simply point into the main objlist or does each leaf
have its own objlist?
 
                                Thanks,
                                 Sean Wall
                                  (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)
 

From switt@iastate.edu  Tue Dec  8 19:35:13 1992
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From: switt@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <9212090035.AA03221@iastate.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Please unsubscribe me from this Mailing list. Thanks


..

From scott@unixland.natick.ma.us  Wed Dec  9 00:43:35 1992
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From: scott@unixland.natick.ma.us (Scott Evernden)
Subject: Unsubscribe me
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 20:50:29 -0500 (EST)
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Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 244       

Please unsubscribe me.

Thanks,

-scott
----
GrayMatter Software Co.              Holliston, MA   508 429-7867
scott@unixland.natick.ma.us    scott@opl.com    spe@world.std.com
user interface and application development technologies and tools


From DVALLEE@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA  Thu Dec 10 08:52:20 1992
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Date:    Thu, 10 Dec 1992 8:18:39 -0500 (EST)
From: DVALLEE@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA
Message-Id: <921210081839.21802728@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: REND386 and Ron Menelli Box
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"


Is there a driver or something available for using REND386 with a PowerGlove
hooked the PC with the serial interface designed by Ron Menelli.

Denis Vallee
dvallee@saphir.ulaval.ca


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Dec 10 10:24:32 1992
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9212101523.AA16929@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: DVALLEE@saphir.ulaval.ca, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  REND386 and Ron Menelli Box

Denis:

  In issue three of PCVR, we include a POINTER package that handles the
serial interface.

Joseph D. Gradecki
Publisher, PCVR

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Fri Dec 11 03:06:02 1992
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From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199212110805.AA10215@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Microsoft progress + idea

I've been working the last few days to get R386 (more specifically the DEVEL4
package) to work under microsoft C.

Here are a few inputs:

#include <alloc.h>    -> malloc.h
#include <str.h>      -> string.h
outportb -> outp
outport  -> outpw
inportb  -> inp
disable  -> _disable
enable   -> _enable
bioskey  -> my own function using _bios_keyboard
delay    -> my own function
geninterrupt -> int86
MK_FP    -> write function


One thing to watch out for particularly, is that non-microsoft C malloc's are
always normalized, e.g. as much as possible is in the segment part and as
little as possible in the offset (never more than 15). This is NOT true in
microsoft, and malloc() is happy to return 0x2178:0x3192 to me. THIS FUCKS
UP DRIVER LOADING PRETTY BAD :-)

(Btw, isn't there a bug in the fread() in driver load, shouldn't the 16 be a
1? Or if I am not mistaken, you try to read 16 times the file size?)


I also had to recompile all sources NOT having _asm in them, since Microsoft
(I am using 7.0) does NOT do 386 inline assembler. I have also not touched the
.ASM files themselves.

Some things seems to need to be declared near, like the sintable, tantable,
and the v_driver_pointer.

Question: SHould the whole damn program run in what memory model? Medium or 
Large? I use Large.

The progress so far:

Using OLD code (e.g. devel2.zip) I managed to get something semi-running:
I can spin cube.plg for about 3 frames, but then it crashes with a division
by zero error. The cosine lighting looks totally wrong too.

Using NEW code (e.g. devel4.zip) I am yet to get something on screen. It
crashes with Out of Stack space (although I've pumped up the stack to
40000 bytes!) at places where it really CAN'T do it.... I suspect it actualy
is the DEBUGGER that crashes with out-of-stack-space...?!?!? (Codeview).

I also have access to TurboC (but *not* TASM!) 2.0 i think. WOuld this be
an easier route to be able to compile something of my own?

I'll keep you dudes informed. Happy for ANY info.

/Z/Z/Z

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Fri Dec 11 07:34:03 1992
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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:33:38 +0100
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <199212111233.AA10908@robin.lysator.liu.se>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: More Progress

I temporarily abondoned Microsoft 7.0 for TurboC, and have had much larger
success:

* I still can't compile anything with asm directives in it. However, I
  dont need to do that! I can safely use the old .OBJ files!
* The check_joystick thing crashes the machine.
* The aspect ratio from the video driver is reaaaaly wrong. Commenting out
  the line that assigns default_view.aspect = screeninfo->aspect makes it
  work. It claims to have an aspect of 17529 (AFTER dividing with 65535.0!)
  Is it the wrong screen driver I'm using (the one from demo4.zip mark one?)
* TEXT is totally fucked and crawls around with random bitplane turn on/offs.
  What am I doing wrong? Is this also due to me using wrong video driver?
  It is vd256.rvd date 92-08-24 16.33 size 7956?!?!
  Text looks like some bitplane on/off mask is'nt reset before it is drawn.

The normal, precompiled DEMO4.EXE works smashing.

Any info?


From imagesys!shannon@uu.psi.com  Fri Dec 11 10:18:20 1992
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From: imagesys!shannon@uu.psi.com (Shannon Posniewski)
Message-Id: <9212111431.AA04914@spot.imagesys.com>
Subject: Re: Microsoft progress + idea
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 9:31:55 EST
In-Reply-To: <199212110805.AA10215@robin.lysator.liu.se>; from "zap@uupsi.UUCP" at Dec 11, 92 9:05 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]

> 
> I've been working the last few days to get R386 (more specifically the DEVEL4
> package) to work under microsoft C.
> 
> Here are a few inputs:
> 
> #include <alloc.h>    -> malloc.h
> #include <str.h>      -> string.h
> outportb -> outp
> outport  -> outpw
> inportb  -> inp
> disable  -> _disable
> enable   -> _enable
> bioskey  -> my own function using _bios_keyboard
> delay    -> my own function
> geninterrupt -> int86
> MK_FP    -> write function
> 
> 
> One thing to watch out for particularly, is that non-microsoft C malloc's are
> always normalized, e.g. as much as possible is in the segment part and as
> little as possible in the offset (never more than 15). This is NOT true in
> microsoft, and malloc() is happy to return 0x2178:0x3192 to me. THIS FUCKS
> UP DRIVER LOADING PRETTY BAD :-)

Yup, that's true.  On a segmented architecture, two different far addresses
might actually addres sthe same location.  (one of its beauties as well
as one of its foibles.) You have two options:

1 - declare the pointer as "huge" instead of "far".  This tells the compiler
    to generate code like you described.  In addition, however, extra
    overhead is induced every time you manipulate the pointer.

2 - Use the following code fragment to "hugeify" a far address.

char far *hugeify(char far *ptr) {
	char far *p;

	FP_SEG(p)=FP_SEG(ptr)+FP_OFF(ptr)/16;
	FP_OFF(p)=FP_OFF(ptr)%16;

	return(p);
}


> I also had to recompile all sources NOT having _asm in them, since Microsoft
> (I am using 7.0) does NOT do 386 inline assembler. I have also not touched the
> .ASM files themselves.

You'll have to pull the inline assembly out into a separate .asm file.

> Using OLD code (e.g. devel2.zip) I managed to get something semi-running:
> I can spin cube.plg for about 3 frames, but then it crashes with a division
> by zero error. The cosine lighting looks totally wrong too.
> 
> Using NEW code (e.g. devel4.zip) I am yet to get something on screen. It
> crashes with Out of Stack space (although I've pumped up the stack to
> 40000 bytes!) at places where it really CAN'T do it.... I suspect it actualy
> is the DEBUGGER that crashes with out-of-stack-space...?!?!? (Codeview).

I haven't looked deeply at the code, but I suspect that traversing the 
object tree could be quite stack intensive.  40K isn't completely out of hand.
Don't run in CV and see if that's the problem.  Also, look for the _stklen
variable source.  Borland/Turbo C uses that to change the stack size.

> /Z/Z/Z
> 

Poz

From James_Barnes@logitech.com  Fri Dec 11 18:59:08 1992
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From: James_Barnes@logitech.com
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:04
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Unsubscribe me

Hello,
Please unsubscribe me from this mailing list.  I am giving up on REND386.
Except for a few bugs, I liked version 3.0.  But, all the additions and
changes for version 4.0 really destabilized the package; in both structure
and robustness.

Admittedly, it is free.  But, after quite a few hours of clean-up,
reorganizing and bug-chasing, $1500-$3500 for a library is cheap (from
a company guy viewpoint, not a "starving-student" viewpoint!).

The sad part is that I can see a real pearl in REND386.  Unfortunately,
it is buried under a huge pile.  So, if there is a version 5.0 that is
structured from the top/down someday...please send me note.
Cheers all and best of luck.
James Barnes
Logitech, 3D Business Unit Manager

From THARME@cc.Helsinki.FI  Sat Dec 12 12:16:20 1992
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From: THARME@cc.Helsinki.FI
Subject: Unsubscribe me
To: rend386@sunee
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Please.

From rcc@zycor.lgc.com  Sat Dec 12 15:03:17 1992
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From: rcc@zycor.lgc.com
Message-Id: <9212122002.AA03399@hp3.zycor.lgc.com>
Subject: drivers for rend386?
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 14:02:59 CST
Cc: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]


   Hi folks,
       
       I've spent some of my free time over the last month or month and
       a half playing with rend386 and building a sega interface for a 
       PC.  Currently, I'm in the process of putting together a simple
       driving simulation which will be demonstrated as part of my final
       project for a class at U.T. Austin.

       I'm interested in continuing to investigate uses of this package
       in practical applications after this project is over.  I'm also
       interested in hearing from anyone who has put together a higher
       resolution device driver for rend386...Something on the order
       of 640x480x16 colors with buffering for the 3D glasses would
       be *ideal*.  I assume that a SVGA with 1mb of video RAM would
       be able to handle this...but I've wrong before.  I also realize
       that there would be a significant performance hit because of the
       increased resolution, but that's okay.

       Please reply to me directly, as I don't know if I have been added
       to the mailing list.

       Thanks,
	 Randy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Randal C. Clarke                                 Landmark Graphics Corporation
rclarke@zycor.lgc.com                               Programmer/Systems Support
(512) 292-2331                                        CAEX Product Development

From broehl  Sun Dec 13 07:45:38 1992
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9212131245.AA26361@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: How to unsubscribe
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 7:45:38 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Just a quick note: to unsubscribe to the list, send mail to
rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (same address you used to
subscribe).  If you send the request rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
then it goes to everyone on the list.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From lro@melb.bull.oz.au  Mon Dec 14 17:13:51 1992
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Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:06:46
From: lro@melb.bull.oz.au (Liam Routt)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Unsubscribe
Message-Id: <QB2D0577@sx6>
In-Reply-To: <9212112359.AA02249@rfi.radiomail.net>

    Please unsubscribe me. Christmas and all...

                                                Liam Routt


From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Wed Dec 16 17:37:22 1992
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:40:02 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Yikes!!! A chain e-letter??
To: rend386@sunee

Happy Holidays!!!

        I received this from a friend who works in Arizona.  It is a 
dreaded chain letter except in electronic form.  The story in it is
humorous enough to risk distributing on the mailing list.  I know,
I know, I'm wasting valuable "network bandwidth" to send this out, but
the message is very interesting and to the point.  Enjoy!!

-Sean Wall

P.S. - Please be nice and don't blast me for this.
P.P.S. - I'm not superstitious.  Really.  Honest...
P.P.P.S. - This message (when I got it) had a header that had to be
           150 lines or more.  I chopped it off to keep the message 
           short!!  This thing has been all over the world!!!

--------------------------Cut Here----------------------------------- 
 
 
Although this is very light hearted, we need to observe 
the
very poignant outcome...........................
 
 
Did you know who in 1923 was:
 
1.  President of the largest steel company?
2.  President of the largest gas company?
3.  President of the New York Stock Exchange?
4.  Greatest wheat speculator?
5.  President of the Bank of International Settlement?
6.  Great Bear of Wall Street?
 
These men should have been considered some of the 
world's most successful
men.  At least they found the secret of making money.  
Now more than 55 years
later, do you know what has become of these men?
 
1.  The President of the largest steel company, Charles 
Schwab, died a pauper.
2.  The President of the largest gas company, Edward 
Hopson, is insane.
3.  The President of the N.Y.S.E., Richard Whitney, was 
released from prison
    to die at home.
4.  The greatest wheat speculator, Arthur Cooger, died 
abroad, penniless.
5.  The President of the Bank of International 
Settlement shot himself.
6.  The Great Bear of Wall Street, Cosabee Rivermore, 
died of suicide.
 
The same year, 1923, the winner of the most important 
golf championship,
Gene Sarazan, won the U.S. Open and PGA Tournaments.  
Today he is still
playing golf and is solvent.
 
CONCLUSION:  STOP WORRYING ABOUT BUSINESS AND START 
PLAYING GOLF
 
 
This letter originated in The Netherlands, has been 
passed around the
world at least 20 times, bringing good luck to everyone 
who passed it on. The
one who breaks the chain will have bad luck.
 
Do not keep this letter.  Do not send money.  Just have 
your wonderful,
efficient cpu make five additional copies and send it to 
five of
your friends to whom you wish good luck.  You will see 
that something good
happens to you four days from now if the chain is not 
broken.  This is not a
joke.  You will receive good luck in four days.
 

From wendellj@microsoft.com  Thu Dec 31 15:04:06 1992
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X-Msmail-Message-Id:  CD838323
X-Msmail-Conversation-Id:  8A1FCA9E
X-Msmail-Parent-Message-Id:  8A1FCA9E
From: Wendell Joost <wendellj@microsoft.com>
To: rend386@sunee, a-andrey@microsoft.com, jones@espresso.boeing.com,
        os!bandit@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com, psygreg@u.washington.edu,
        tfsquad!wwiv!98-853@kksys.mn.org, ricew@microsoft.com,
        steveha@microsoft.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 11:41:55 PST
Subject: PLG files
Message-Id:  <9212311146.aa07191@ingate.microsoft.COM>

I have an interesting algorithm problem.

I have a NASA Digital Terrain Model of a part of Valles Marineris 
(Mars).  This file is an array (200 x 90) of unsigned integers.  Each 
element in the array is an elevation point.  The points are 1 kilometer 
apart.  The file is effectively a digital topographic map with sampling 
points one kilometer apart.

I have written a program to take these 18,000 points and create a PLG 
file for use with REND386.  The problem is that I wind up with 36,000 
triangles.  REND386 doesn't do well with more than 1,000 polygons.

I have worked around this by subsampling the file, but I lose a lot of 
the terrain "texture".

Much of the area in this file is relatively flat.  What would be ideal 
is an algorithm which can determine the "flat" areas and will generate 
large polygons for those flat areas and use smaller polygons for the 
more "textured" areas.

Any hints or questions?

wendellj@microsoft.com


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Dec 31 18:58:31 1992
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Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 16:57:25 -0700
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9212312357.AA24319@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: a-andrey@microsoft.com, jones@espresso.boeing.com,
        os!bandit@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com, psygreg@u.washington.edu,
        rend386@sunee, ricew@microsoft.com, steveha@microsoft.com,
        tfsquad!wwiv!98-853@kksys.mn.org, wendellj@microsoft.com
Subject: Re:  PLG files

One possible solution, however different than what you ask for, is to use
virtual memory with REND386.  Hack the demo code or design a new program
that will buffer your polygons on disk or in high memory.  Determine the
farthest point you can see on the screen and buffer all of those polygons
past that point and too far to the left, right, and near edges.  There 
probably won't be more than a couple hundred polygons active at any
given time.

Joseph D. Gradecki
Publisher, PCVR

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Jan  1 14:25:25 1993
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Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 11:25:40 -0800
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9301011925.AA06266@netcom2.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: PLG files

I think you want to do a separate subsystem in Rend386 to
handle background textures and terrain systems.  Polygons
are all wrong for this; it's feasible to do an algorithm
just using the height field itself (possibly with inter-point
tangents?) that runs in predictable time for updating
the background.

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sat Jan  2 12:48:57 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:48:40 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <15397.9301021748@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: PLG files
To: wendellj@microsoft.com (Wendell Joost)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 17:48:25 GMT
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <9212311146.aa07191@ingate.microsoft.COM>; from "Wendell Joost" at Dec 31, 92 11:41 am
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Wendell Joost said:
> I have a NASA Digital Terrain Model of a part of Valles Marineris 
>  [ ... ]
> I have written a program to take these 18,000 points and create a PLG 
> file for use with REND386.  The problem is that I wind up with 36,000 
> triangles.  REND386 doesn't do well with more than 1,000 polygons.

I also did exactly this.  You can use other files with less samples
in, but you still get LARGE numbers of polygons.

> Much of the area in this file is relatively flat.  What would be ideal 
> is an algorithm which can determine the "flat" areas and will generate 
> large polygons for those flat areas and use smaller polygons for the 
> more "textured" areas.

I've been mulling this over for a couple of months and have an algorithm
scribbled down somewhere (untested) for examining the polygons and
combining adjacent polys whose surface normals are "almost" parallel.
Especially with large "terrain" type objects it's possible to have
large areas that are flat, with bits of detail here and there.  Obviously
it's pointless having a large, flat area composed of 1000's of polys.

I wasn't sure if there was some classic algorithm that already does this
or not; I'm not an expert on graphics.


I haven't found time to do any coding or testing on this, and as several
people have pointed out, it's not necessarily a good idea to "do" terrains
by loading in one huge PLG since only a small amount of it will be visible at 
any one time -- some sort of caching scheme, or on-the-fly calculation
would be much more efficient on memory.  I believe Bernie is currently
working on some way of using extended memory with REND386, but you'd
have to ask him about that.

There were supposedly some articles in the SIGGRAPH 92 proceedings
about reducing the complexity of polygonal objects, although I haven't
managed to get hold of copies yet.  See Greg Turk's article on
re-tiling Polygonal Surfaces, pp55-64 and/or Schroder, Zarge &
Lorenson, "Decimation of Triangle Meshes" pp65-70.

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Linux: *free* unix for IBM PCs! <<

From thinman@netcom.com  Sun Jan  3 17:32:32 1993
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	id <AA28153>; Sun, 3 Jan 93 17:32:32 -0500
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	id AA15931; Sun, 3 Jan 93 14:32:47 -0800
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 14:32:47 -0800
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Message-Id: <9301032232.AA15931@netcom2.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Background terrains

I've been asked to expound on doing a background terrain alg.
Just shooting off:

Think incrementally.  The viewpoint moves across the landscape,
so you only have to process newly exposed strips at the edges.

If the view angle stays constant, this makes things much easier.

Ground features can obscure other ground features, cast a ray
from each pixel to the height field until you hit.  

Backwards: cast terrain to screen in z-buffer mode from
near part of strip to far part.  Z-buffer in blocks as big
as the height field pixels instead of screen pixels.  Paint
height field averaging across pixels, with neighboring 
height points contributing to a pixel.  Do this pixel by
pixel, adding and removing terrain points as you go across.

As for painting object on top of this, I would attempt this with
a board that has foreground/background bit planes, or with
a video mixer and a separate machine doing the terrain field.





-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From os!bandit@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com  Mon Jan  4 00:40:59 1993
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	id AA01859; Sun, 3 Jan 93 21:04:07 -0800
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 21:04:07 -0800
From: bandit Gangwere <os!bandit@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com>
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To: Wendell Joost <wendellj@microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: PLG files
Cc: rend386@sunee, a-andrey@microsoft.com, jones@espresso.boeing.com,
        os!bandit@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com, psygreg@u.washington.edu,
        tfsquad!wwiv!98-853@kksys.mn.org, ricew@microsoft.com,
        steveha@microsoft.com

this is a bit off the top of my head.
it seems you want to create a sparse matrix out of the data set.
if you started at the edge, and determined a delta to determine the "flatness",
ie. any value in the interior of a flat area with +/- the delta is removed from the data set
by setting it to a "null" value.
any values which remain determine the edges, which are broken up (prob recursively)
into component triangles.
a more sophisticated method would be to create a data struct with each node being
a point in the original data set, and removing those nodes within the delta
of its neighbors.

another, by hand version,  is create a shape editor, bring in pieces of the shape, and
shrink down the parts.

.............  bandit

From gwj@susie.sbc.com  Mon Jan  4 10:15:04 1993
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From: gwj@susie.sbc.com (Gregg W. Jensen)
Message-Id: <9301041508.AA22626@susie>
Subject: rend386 to Unix?
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 9:08:57 CST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL6]


I was curious to know if it would be possible to port rend386 to another OS
such as Unix?  Is there a lot of MS-DOS dependicies?  Would it possible to 
port it to run under X (using standard libraries or using PEX)?  If possible,
is it possible to estimate what kind of effort would be involved?

Thanks
Gregg Jensen
(if mail bounces send replies to gj9362@smaug.sbc.com)

From thinman@netcom.com  Mon Jan  4 21:12:12 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject:  Re: rend386 to Unix?


No.  Rend386 could be ported to the 386 native mode (32-bit) GNU
compiler, and that's it.  You should check out the VOGL library.
ftp.uu.net:pub/graphics/vogle.  This is a software emulation of
SGI's GL, a nice low-level polygonal painting interface.

I'm using it for a project similar to rend386,
a higher-level VR window system based on LISP.

Contact Dr. Mark Green at the University of Alberta about their
MR Toolkit.  mark@cs.ualberta.ca.  They're sticky about
only non-profit organizations getting the software, though.



-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Wed Jan 27 10:00:33 1993
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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:02:45 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: General questions
To: rend386@sunee

Hi everyone,

        This list has been very quiet lately, so I'm sending this out
to see if there's anyone out there!  Two questions:

1) Will there be a reorganization of the REND386 libs to eliminate
   some of the global variables?

2) Has anyone thought about (or possibly tried) implementing some
   kind of texture mapping with REND386?

After I finish my thesis, I was thinking about trying my hand at one of
these topics, but there's no point in reinventing the wheel if
someone's already done it.


                                Thanks,
                                  Sean
                                  (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Jan 27 11:18:46 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:17:46 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:17:25 GMT
Message-Id: <28340.9301271617@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Still here

[in reply to Sean Wall's message about the list
still being active]

Yes, the list has been very quiet lately.  I suppose
everyone has "real work" to do!

Bernie and Dave are hard at work on their book at the moment,
so I should think we're unlikely to hear from them.

As far as the global variables thing goes, you could check
out PCVR issue 6 (I think).  Joe Gradecki put together a skeleton
"demox.c" that you can use when building your own apps.  There
are comments in there that describe what all the globals do.
It doesn't actually re-structure the variables etc. but it
does give you an idea of what's going on.


chris

From broehl  Wed Jan 27 14:51:26 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9301271951.AA01207@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: General questions
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 14:51:25 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 1) Will there be a reorganization of the REND386 libs to eliminate
>    some of the global variables?

Yes, at some point; Dave and I have both been busy working on the book.

> 2) Has anyone thought about (or possibly tried) implementing some
>    kind of texture mapping with REND386?

We've thought about it, but if you'd like to give it a try then please do!

-- 
	Bernie Roehl, University of Waterloo Electrical Engineering Dept
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	BangPath: uunet!watmath!sunee!broehl
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From A.Kamvissis@sequent.cc.hull.ac.uk  Thu Jan 28 09:31:07 1993
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Via: uk.ac.hull.cc.sequent; Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:13:34 +0000
Subject: Question about Glove-Rend386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 14:13:12 WET
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From: "A.Kamvissis" <A.Kamvissis@sequent.cc.hull.ac.uk>
Original-Sender: A.Kamvissis@sequent.cc.hull.ac.uk

Did anyone try to implement some commands of the keyboard (eg. Up, down,
forward, back) when using the Demo4 package, with the PowerGlove ? If yes,
can you indicate me how you done it.  Thank you. 


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sun Feb  7 21:36:09 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 01:53:42 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 01:53:13 GMT
Message-Id: <1630.9302080153@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: REND386 Voice Control

This guy mentioned on sci.virtual-worlds that he'd used a COVOX sound
board to operate REND386 using Voice commands.  Here's a bit more information
he sent to me.

	-- Chris

---8x----cut-here----------------------------------

Originally From: JEW5001@EDU.TAMU.VENUS
Subject: Re: TECH: Covox VoiceMaser II (Voice Control/Recognition for REND386)

Here in the U.S. the Covox cost about $130 mail order.  I think the
list price is close to $200.  I know that they are available in Europe
as I have received several complaints about their advertising.
They COVOX Sound Master II is advertised as being "the MOST compatible
sound card on the market" and "capable of playing Sound Blaster 
titles with IMPROVED soudn quality"  It is NOT Sound Blaster compatible,
the manual even says so.  There is a BETA TSR which is rumored to 
work, but I have NEVER been able to get it to work.

The voice recognition does work about 70-85% of the time.  This is
dependant upon background noise, mike quality (a throat mike would
probably be best), and consistancy of intonation.  There is some
code floating around to make a Sound Blaster work as a voice
recogintion device as well, but I have never seen it.

The Covox will work, but keep in mind it is a gimick/toy.  But then
again it cost 1/10 of what the next cheapest voice recognition board
does.  Too many compromises in my life between cost and quality!!!
It is Adlib compatible.

The TSR is a gem.  I've had no problems with it, and you should be able
to get your first voice activated macro working in under 5 minutes.
It will take a few clock cycles away, resulting in a 5-10% reduction
in the speed of REND386.


The card has an 8-bit DMA with a sample rate of 25Kbytes/sec.  Naturally
you can save and edit these sound files and play them back.  The 
Adlib part of the card has the 11 Voice FM music synthesizer.  A MIDI
port is built in, but I have no idea if it works as I have no MIDI toys
(only acoustic, they still sound better).  It ahs a 4-watt
amplifier built in with an adjustable volumn control.  It comes with
a 1 meter cable and twin speakers.

I have been unable to get it to work with Windows, either as a sound
card or for voice recognition.
They do sell a developers kit which looks rather complete, but out
of my price range.  You would think they would give the kit away
so that people would write more software for their card, then they
would sell more cards.  

John Williamson
Department of Psychology
Texas A&M University

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From twisto!bangate.compaq.com!Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@compaq.com  Fri Feb 12 14:47:00 1993
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From: Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: Subscribing
To: rend386@sunee
Cc: 

  Could you please put me on the rend386 list .......



                   Thank you !!!!!!



                                     Steve Cox

From papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Feb 20 10:22:48 1993
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Subject: world.c & Borland C
From: Paul Prescod <papresco@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
To: rend386@sunee (rend 386 mailing list)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1993 10:12:24 -0500
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Message-Id: <93Feb20.101228est.246616-1@descartes.uwaterloo.ca>

I'm having a really hard time compiling world.c with Borland C++
version 2.  It keeps running out of memory on the function read_world.
Is there anyone who has compiled it already with a compatible compiler and
could send me the .obj?

BTW, I think Bernie should teach a course: "How to optimize your
programs by avoiding function calls." :)  By my count, read_world is
about 400 lines long.


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Sat Feb 20 10:39:30 1993
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From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9302201538.AA16011@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: papresco@undergrad.math, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  world.c & Borland C

Paul:

  Compile it within the environment.  There is a problem with the 
bcc configuration file and your environment configuration.  It will
compile correctly there.

joe

From sdw@sdwsys.lig.net  Tue Feb 23 00:21:35 1993
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From: sdw@sdwsys.lig.net (Stephen D. Williams)
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Subject: Re: world.c & Borland C
To: papresco@undergrad.math (Paul Prescod)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 00:19:46 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <93Feb20.101228est.246616-1@descartes.uwaterloo.ca> from "Paul Prescod" at Feb 20, 93 10:12:24 am
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> 
> BTW, I think Bernie should teach a course: "How to optimize your
> programs by avoiding function calls." :)  By my count, read_world is
> about 400 lines long.
> 
Please....

400 lines is nothing.  Have you been writing with Pascal guidelines?

A big module (a la GNU g++ .c's..) is gcc combine.c 323K and 9609 lines long.
Now there's a module.
In gcc:
There are 114 .c files amounting to: 8.4MB and over 278K lines of source,
not including .h or config files.  The Makefile has 1867 lines....

400 lines is just a sniffle of code....

Better grow up if you want to be a punker boy....  (O	\\
						     -=< |)
						   (O   //

Ok, I admit it: after a few satisfying 10K+ lines projects, I've spent too
much time designing to death and writing documents.  I've become rusty and
am trying to crank code again....  If I wasn't info-overloaded.....

sdw

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Feb 25 13:05:24 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 17:11:31 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <6915.9302251647@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: current archive object list (fwd)
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 16:47:38 GMT
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

For all you object hunters out there, enclosed is a copy
of the WorldToolkit archive list.

Does the DXF->PLG converter work OK?  Not sure about these other
formats...

Chris

> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 93 7:48:32 PST
> From: terry@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy
> Reply-To: Terry Fong <doctor@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy>
> To: sig-wtk@gov.nasa.arc.artemis
> Subject: current archive object list
> Sender: doctor@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> The following is a list of the objects currently in the SIG-WTK
> archive. If you have any objects you would like to add to the
> collection, please upload them to the sig-wtk/incoming directory. The
> archive is located on ARTEMIS.ARC.NASA.GOV (128.102.115.149).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Terry
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This directory contains 3D object models readable by WTK. All files
> are text based and may be ftp'd with ASCII transfers.{
> 	object type				file extension
> 	-----------				--------------
> 	AutoCAD DXF				.dxf		
> 	Sense8 neutral file format (ASCII)	.nff		
> 	Amiga VideoScape			.vid		
> 
> Last updated: 24-Feb-93 Terry Fong
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> TITLE		POLYS	DESCRIPTION (creator)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> README			This file
> ORBITER.tri.nff	3515	Space Shuttle (Solid Surface Modeler, NASA JSC)
> balloon.dxf	78	hot-air balloon (Sense8)
> child.dxf    	3012	50th percentile child (Mannequin)
> coil3.nff 	23	colored coil (Sense8)
> cube.nff	6	unit colored cube (Terry Fong)
> cubostel.nff 	48	geometric figure (Sense8)
> dice.nff 	29	one die (Sense8)
> dodestel.nff 	48	geometric figure (Sense8)
> dome_f5.nff 	29	a geodesic dome of frequency 5, 275 polys (Sense8)
> ed3axes.nff 	60	representation of WTK coordinate axes (Sense8)
> fish.nff 	275	a fish (contains vertex normals, for when Gouraud
> 			shading is supported) (Sense8)
> icos.nff 	20	a simple icosahedron (Sense8)
> icosf2n.nff 	80	a 2-frequency icosahedron, normalized (Sense8)
> icosf3n.nff 	180	a 3-frequence icosahedron, normalized (Sense8)
> icosf4n.nff 	320	a 4-frequence icosahedron, normalized (Sense8)
> icosstel.nff 	60	a stellated icosahdron (Sense8)
> jet.vid		345	jet plane
> kpcar.dxf	39	convertible car (Ken Pimentel, Sense8)
> kproom1/ 	183	directory containing livingroom model and its textures
> 			in targa (.win extension) and SGI (no extension) format
> 			wind12a is a transparent SGI texture (Sense8)
> lights.dxf	20	"euro" light
> lobby.nff/ 	108	a room  (Sense8)
> man.dxf		3012	50th percentile man (Mannequin)
> neg2stel.nff 	60	an icoshedron, stellated to magnified -90%
> 			of its radius (Sense8)
> negastel.nff 	240	a negatively stellated truncated icosahedron (Sense8)
> oct2stel.nff 	216	a stellated octahedron (Sense8)
> oplan.dxf	391	office with shelves, furniture (Sense8)
> oplanchair.dxf	96	office chair (Sense8)
> oplanmt.dxf	152	same as oplan.dxf but empty (Sense8)
> rhomstel.nff 	48	stellated rhombic dodecahdron (Sense8)
> robot1.dxf	514	humanoid male robot
> robot2.dxf	533	humanoid female robot
> sfo/			San Francisco with textures (Sense8)
> shuttle.nff	446	Space Shuttle (J. Fincannon, NASA LeRC)
> ssf.nff		692	Space Station Freedom (J. Fincannon, NASA LeRC)
> tanks/			directory with 2 tanks (m1.nff and t62.nff) and some
> 			tank tread textures in targa (.win extension) and
> 			SGI (no extension) format
> tardis.nff	746	tardis from Dr. Who
> teapot.nff	3751	Utah teapot
> trontank	2654	battle tank from "Tron"
> warbird.nff	2570	Romulan warbird
> woman.dxf	3460	50th percentile woman (Mannequin)
> xyz.nff 	48	arrows along coordinate axes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> A straight line may be the shortest     Terry Fong <terry@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov>
> distance between 2 points, but it is     NASA-AMES M/S 269-3, Moffett Field, CA
> by no means the most interesting-Dr. Who    (415) 604-6063 office, 604-6081 lab
> 
> 


-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Linux: *free* unix for IBM PCs! <<

From paperboy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Fri Feb 26 17:07:39 1993
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From: paperboy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Chuter)
Message-Id: <9302262206.AA00646@huey.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Hooking up two systems with Rend386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 16:06:18 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1155      



Hey folks - I'm new to this list so forgive me if this has been asked before
            (I didnt find it in the archives...)

Around April, a friend and I are going to put on a seminar with the glove
glasses and rend386. We recently put a little demonstration on in the mall
for engineer's week and the kids loved it. We want to go a step further...

Has anyone ever hooked up to computers with two powergloves. It seems like a
simple idea - hook up the computers via the com port and feed data from the
glove to the com port. Of course, changes in code would be needed to recognize
the other data glove. Has anyone tried this or made drivers for two gloves?

I appreciate any pointers I can get - i don't have a lot of time for this    
project and i'd like to avoid making as many mistakes as possible.

Sidenote: Brenda Laurel spoke on my campus yesterday - great speech. After 
	  speaking about Tim Leary, Fisher, and others, she said shes was
	  most excited about the back alley vr - "where people are duct taping
	  things to there body." I advise anyone to see her if she comes
	  to your campus.

-Chris Chuter
-paperboy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
 

From MONSA@DEPAUW.BITNET  Sun Feb 28 06:48:02 1993
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Date: 	Sat, 27 Feb 1993 18:45:55 -0500
From: MONSA@DEPAUW.BITNET
Subject: mail
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GV85XH0GMA8X2N7T@depauw.BITNET>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I would like to be put on your mailing list.

Andre Monserrat

From broehl  Mon Mar  1 09:24:31 1993
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	id <AA25352>; Mon, 1 Mar 93 09:24:31 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303011424.AA25352@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New utilities and files for REND386
To: rend386
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 9:24:31 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The directory pub/rend386/utils on sunee.uwaterloo.ca has some new
additions to it:

   mountain.zip is Michael Snoswell's mountain range generator
   checker.exe  is Todd Porter's checkerboard generator
   globe.zip    is Kevin Perry's sphere generator

Todd Porter also built a nice little world inspired by the "Amnesia"
demo that's been floating around; it's stored in pub/rend386/plgfiles/amn.zip
on sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Thanks to everyone who's contributed software and plgfiles; your efforts
are definitely appreciated!

About FTP...

Please try to FTP things from sunee only during off-peak hours; the entire
University of Waterloo is struggling by on a single 56kbs link, and it's
saturated most of the day and well into the evening.  Thanks.


From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Wed Mar  3 08:49:54 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 08:28:45 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Problem with some code
To: rend386@sunee

Hi everyone,

        Well, I'm ready to pull my hair out!  I've got this weird
problem with a program I've been developing and I was wondering
if anyone out there in net-land could help.
        I've been developing an application with REND386 and I'm 
experiencing strange crashes.  The code I've developed uses extensive
floating point.  I'm compiling under Turbo C++ release 2.0 and I'm
NOT using the floating point emulation libraries (i.e. - I've set
the compiler option to use 80287 fp instructions).  Now here's what happens.  
The code runs fine for a couple of seconds (I know this because I use 
popmsg() to put a string containing the current computed values) then
the program exits without unhooking any interrupts.  In fact, the 
graphics image remains on the screen and I have to blind type 
'MODE CO80' to get back to text mode. I had mixed results running under
Turbo Debugger, but I was able to repeat the error, which TD responded
to by switching to text mode and popping up a window claiming
'exit code 3'.  I'm aware this means irregular program exit, but can
I trap these irregular exits?  (I'm not that familiar with the TC libs!)

                Thanks in advance,
                     Sean

                  (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)

P.S. - BTW, I am compiling using the large memory model and I'm trapping
       math errors with matherr() and divide by zeros with signal().  I
       coded them to use popmsg() to flag errors to the screen.  I
       suspect the problem may not be floating point related, but may
       be related to the memory model or possibly stack problems.

From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Wed Mar  3 15:40:20 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 15:44:25 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Additions to previous message
To: rend386@sunee

Hi,

        I got a few responses to the mail message I sent out regarding
the problem I have.  Thanks for the help so far!  I should have been more
specific when stating the problem, so here goes:

        1) The code is being run on a 33 MHz 486DX.

        2) I have narrowed the problem down to one particular
           function.  When I comment out the function call,
           the error does not occur.  When the call is not
           patched out, the crash occurs after a (seemingly...) random
           interval of time.  However, I know the code in the function
           works because I used it in a test program (separate from
           the application I'm writing) and it returns good values.
           This is using the FP coprocessor, by the way.

        3) Here's the weird part.  The source file containing the
           flaky function defines another function which 
           provides very similar processing.  Calling this function
           never causes the program to crash.  The only difference between
           the two functions is the one which crashes passes more
           parameters on the stack than the other one.  Thus,
           I am led to believe that it might be a stack problem.  Also,
           the crash occurs at the point where the function call
           is made, regardless of where it is in the calling module.
           In other words, it definitely follows the function.

        4) I haven't looked at the TC manual yet, but I'm trying to
           figure out if the stack gets its own segment in the
           large memory model or whether it shares space with the
           code or something.

        Maybe this is a really simple problem and I don't have the
experience yet to recognize it.  I'm definitely learning all about
the guts of the Turbo C++ compiler however! (Truly a learning
experience.)  Does anyone think that changing to the huge memory
model will help?

                                -Nearly insane,
                                   Sean
                                 (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)
 

From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Thu Mar  4 08:37:21 1993
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Date: Thu, 4 Mar 93 08:41:46 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Code problem resolution
To: rend386@sunee

Hi,

        Well, I fixed that problem I was having.  And it was something stupid.
It was a combination of dumbness on my part and poor documentation on
Borland's part!
        The problem WAS in fact a math exeception.  Particularly, it was
a domain error in the acos() function.  acos() expects input in the range
[-1,1] and although the math I was performing should have ensured that,
a BIG oversight on my part was letting bad input through.  You know the
rest, "garbage in, garbage out".  However, I had been using the matherr()
function to trap math errors and the signal() function to trap FPU
divide by zeroes. It wasn't until I linked in the emulation libs that
matherr() was called to flag the acos() error.  Apparently,  matherr()
will trap domain and range errors ONLY in the emulation library and not
in the FPU (this kind of makes sense...)  Since no divide by zeros were
occuring, signal() never trapped anything.  After putting in some limiting
code, everything now runs fine.  What a mess!!!  The on-line docs
state that matherr() will trap function errors in the floating point
library.  Stress "library"!!!!  Nowhere in the docs (as far as I can tell)
does it clearly state "matherr() will not trap math errors in the FPU".
Maybe it does and I'm just not using it right.  Who knows??!!!

        I figured I'd pass this tale of woe on to you, gentle reader,
in case anyone else might run into the same problem.


-Sean
(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)

P.S. - Kudos to Dave Stampe who suggested linking in the emulation library
       as a possible fix.  Yes Dave, it was one of those "neat bugs"
       that Borland likes to slip in.  (I think...)

From BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET  Sat Mar  6 02:38:14 1993
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Date: 	Fri, 5 Mar 1993 09:11:00 -0500
From: BARBER1@SNYCANVA.BITNET
Subject: A few questions about Rend386 and vid_pages!
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GVFZM77NDS000EC4@SNYCANVA.BITNET>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vms-To: BITNET%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Hello
        I am newbie of sorts to graphics programming so please don't flame if
these questions are silly. I have been trying to go through the rend386 code to
help me learn how to better my graphics programming and I have a couple
questions.

1)  I have been looking at the assembly code that does all the video-page
changes, clearing, and switching. Mind you I don't understand assembly at all
and I was wondering if there was a way to do fast video page switches,and
clears in regular c++, using the registers and video interrupt? I have tried
doing this stuff with the "bgi" libraries and quite frankly I could draw my
screens faster by hand.

2)  The Rend386 logo! Where is the data and or code that generates it? I don't
understand how it is created. I created my own logo but I did it with an array
sending the colors directly to the vga-memory via a farptr. I ended up with an
array that was 64k. Is there an easier way to make logo fonts?

3)  Could somebody PLEASE point me in the right direction to find a
"intermediate" c++ vga-graphics book that would answer questions like these so
I won't have to bother this newsgroup or others like it.

4)  Could someone point me to a mail gateway to the usenet so I can ask
questions like this in a group that is more closely linked to general
questions.


Thanks in Advance

Stephen Palm
Barber1@snycanva.bitnet

From broehl  Sat Mar  6 09:57:23 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA01689>; Sat, 6 Mar 93 09:57:23 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303061457.AA01689@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: A few questions about Rend386 and vid_pages! (fwd)
To: rend386
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 93 9:57:22 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> I was wondering if there was a way to do fast video page switches,and
> clears in regular c++, using the registers and video interrupt?

Yes and no.  Everything we're doing in assembler you can certainly do in
C, but it'll be much slower.  As to the "video interrupt", I assume you
mean the BIOS int 10h call, which doesn't know about Mode X.

> I have tried
> doing this stuff with the "bgi" libraries and quite frankly I could draw my
> screens faster by hand.

The BGI libraries are general-purpose, but slow.

> 2)  The Rend386 logo! Where is the data and or code that generates it?

I'm working on a more general solution for this for a future release; the
tricky thing is creating a PCX file in the right format with the correct
palette (you have to use the default rend386 palette).  If you can find a
paint program that will read the logo.pcx file provided with demo4, you
should be able to use the palette from that.  You can also try extracting
the palette from logo.pcx using Image Alchemy (I haven't tried this myself)>


From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Mon Mar  8 16:56:16 1993
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 93 17:00:25 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Sega glasses tech info
To: rend386@sunee

Hello,

        I'm looking for anyone who has information on how LCD shutter
glasses (like the Sega glasses) operate.  I've got a good idea about
how they do, but since I'm putting this information in a technical
paper, I'd like some confirmation.  Any takers?

-Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From kenworth@BBN.COM  Tue Mar  9 13:55:40 1993
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	id <AA24200>; Tue, 9 Mar 93 13:55:40 -0500
Message-Id: <9303091855.AA24200@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
From: Mark Kenworthy <kenworth@BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: Sega glasses tech info
To: rend386@sunee, WALL@taurus.dnet.ge.com
Cc: Kenworthy@BBN.COM
In-Reply-To: <9303082157.AA13365@aitgw.ge.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 93 07:55:33 PDT
Mail-System-Version: <BBN/MacEMail_v1.5@sparky.bbn.com>

Sean - Re:

>        I'm looking for anyone who has information on how LCD shutter
>glasses (like the Sega glasses) operate.  I've got a good idea about
>how they do, but since I'm putting this information in a technical
>paper, I'd like some confirmation.  Any takers?

Sean - I do not own any such glasses, but the principles are very
simple.  Each side of the glasses has an independent LCD shutter.  Note
that LCDs with no current applied are clear, and become opaque when
current is applied (actually, it may be visa-versa, but I think this is
correct).  The LCD shutters are just one large LCD cell, as opposed to,
for example, a LCD computer display, which has thousands of cells used
as pixels.  Current is applied alternately to one shutter then the other
so that only one eye can see the computer display at a time.  The
shutters are synchronized with the vertical retrace of the video
display.  So, every 60th of a second (assuming a 60hz video signal), the
shutter on one eye goes closed and the other goes open.  The display
device is swapping the displayed information every 60th of a second
also, presenting a scene computed from the viewpoint of the left eye
during one frame and the right eye's viewpoint the next frame.  With the
two independent viewpoints, the 3D effect is generated.  Since the
persistence of images in the retina/brain is a very long time (100ms -
200ms), the observer only notices a reduction in overall intensity, due
to the half duty cycle on each eye.

Other miscellaneous info:

The "switching" time for an LCD is about 5ms, so actually the LCDs need
to be turned on and off prior to the vertical interrupt to get the
switching to occur prior to the start of scanning the next frame.  I do
not have any references on this, but this should be easy to find.

If the eye did not have the long retina/brain persistence, our current
display technology (monitors) would not work at all.  The pixels on a
display only stay lit for around 200 microseconds (a few scan lines). 
The only reason we see a complete display is the persistence of the
scanned image in the retina/brain.

Papers on persistance of image:

D. Allen Allport
"Phenomenal Simultaneity and the Perceptual Movement Hypothesis"
Brit. J. of Psych., v59p395-406, '68

D. Allen Allport
"Temporal Summation and Phenomenal Simultaneity Experiments with the
Radius Display"
Quaterly J. of Exp. Psy, v22p686-701

Joyce E. Farrell, Geo Sperling, and M. Parel
"The Visible Persistence of Stimulation in Stroboscopic Motion"
Vision Research, v30p921-936, '90/6

Hope this helps!

	- Mark -

+------------------------------------------------------+
| Mark Kenworthy       |    "It's always something"    |
| kenworthy@bbn.com    |     Roseanna Roseannadanna    |
+------------------------------------------------------+

From peter@ccgate.dragonsys.com  Fri Mar 12 09:56:08 1993
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	id A04696; Fri, 12 Mar 93 08:48:59 EST
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 08:48:59 EST
From: peter <peter@dragonsys.COM>
Message-Id: <9303120848.A04696@dragonsys.COM>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Please put me on the mailing list...

          I heard that there is a mailing list for rend386 related
          mail.  Please include me on the list.  Also, I heard that
          there is an archive of the past mailings.  Can you give me a
          pointer to where that is located?  Thanks.  Finally, if I
          want to ask questions about rend386 (posted to the mailing
          list I would guess), do I just send them to this same
          address (i.e., rend386@...) or is there a different one for
          that?

          Peter Heitman
          peter@dragonsys.com


From her@compel.dk  Mon Mar 15 04:50:03 1993
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 09:43:45 +0100
From: Helge Egelund Rasmussen <her@compel.dk>
Message-Id: <199303150843.AA15051@compel>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: A few rend386 questionsss
X-Charset: ASCII
X-Char-Esc: 29

I've just got Rend386, and is really impressed by the speed of this thing,
however I've got a few questions about Rend386...

- Does the polygon vertices (in PLG files) have to be ordered in any given way 
  (to define the surface normal direction?).
  Example:
  I've got a polygon consisting of 4 vertices a, b, c and d,
  Is there any difference between a,b,c,d and d,c,b,a?

- The 'V' (Resize screen) command doesn't work in DEMO4 anymore. I can see
  that it depends on a #define (RESIZE_IMPLEMENTED ?) in the demo4 source code.
  Why isn't it working, don't the new drivers support this?

- Is there any way to modify objects, such as moving a single vertex or changing
  the color of a face?

- I've begun to compile the source code with borland c++ (bcc). To do this
  I have to change the makefiles ( "tcc" -> "bcc"), but the compiler reports
  lots and lots of implicit definition warnings. Which compiler switches 
  should I use for bcc?

Thanks in advance,

Helge
---
Helge E. Rasmussen  .  PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00  .  E-mail:  her@compel.dk
Compel A/S          .  FAX   + 45 36 72 43 00  .  
Copenhagen, Denmark

From turich@icarus.lis.pitt.edu  Tue Mar 16 10:02:17 1993
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	id AA16351; Tue, 16 Mar 93 09:12:23 EST
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 09:12:23 EST
From: turich@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (Tom Turich)
Message-Id: <9303161412.AA16351@icarus.lis.pitt.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Serial Connection of Powerglove & SEGA Glasses

	Does anyone have code that will allow the connection of the 
Powerglove to a serial port?  I thought I would ask before I tackle
the code.  Also, I have been trying to find a pair of SEGA glasses with
little success.  I have tried all the usual toy stores (TOYS_R_US, etc.)
but all I get are bewildered stares.  Any sources out there?  Thanks.
Snow bound in Pittsburgh.

From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Thu Mar 18 19:46:56 1993
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 19:51:11 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Screen captures?
To: rend386@sunee

Hi all,

        I'm trying to do screen captures while Rend386 is running
and I've met with little success.  I've tried the DOS 'graphics'
command, the save_pcx() function in Rend386, and a DOS VGA screen
capture program.  They all return garbled PCX files (or in the case
of the graphics command, illegible printouts).  Has anyone been
able to get screen captures?
        I'm running on a Tseng ET-4000 chipset.  No stereo viewing,
either.  I've tried changing the video mode to 0x13 and no luck (I
could never figure out what mode 0x14 was anyway!) What's going on?
I called the save_pcx() function passing v_page to it along with
a FILE pointer to a file I opened with "wb" attributes.  I got a 
PCX file, but the image was like little garbled copies of the screen
over and over again. I am thoroughly confused!!

-Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)

From 70233.1552@compuserve.com  Sat Mar 20 15:53:20 1993
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	id AA12370; Sat, 20 Mar 93 15:52:29 -0500
Date: 20 Mar 93 15:49:17 EST
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: GloveList <glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>
Subject: 2 Gloves on 1 PC
Message-Id: <930320204916_70233.1552_CHV36-1@CompuServe.COM>

All-
	The following press release was distributed at the VR Systems 
conference at New York last week.  It should dispel any rumors that the two 
glove stuff doesn't/can't work.  Bernie Roehl himself saw it and can attest 
to its usefulness.

---------------------------------

		Press Release

The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals (VRASP) 
announces a new development in Virtual Reality software for IBM compatible 
personal computers.  This technology uses a pair of Power Gloves 
(originally sold for the Nintendo Entertainment System) to allow two people 
to simultaneously manipulate objects in a virtual world.  It is based on 
REND386 written by Bernie Roehl and Dave Stampe, which originally provided 
support for only one Power Glove.  Mark Pflaging, Vice President of VRASP, 
has grafted his own Power Glove program into REND386 to enhance its 
capabilities.  The addition of another Power Glove increases the capability 
of the system by allowing cooperation (or competition) between two people 
when selecting, moving, and rotating objects that are part of a three 
dimensional system.  REND386 also includes the capability to generate 
stereoscopic views compatible with Sega 3D glasses or the Toshiba 3 
Dimension Scope.  The cost of this system is very low even though it rivals 
much more expensive systems in some ways.  Beyond the cost of the computer 
itself, a complete two user system can be assembled for under $400, which 
would include two gloves and two pairs of 3D glasses.  VRASP sells Power 
Gloves and Power Glove connectors, and will begin selling connectors for 3D 
glasses as well.  The software itself is free to avoid patent infringement 
(it may not be resold).

Each person sees the same view of the virtual world (on one computer 
monitor) but there are two separate "disembodied hands" that reflect the 
position and posture of the users' actual hands.  The composition of the 
world is determined by data files, and there are several such "world files" 
available.  A joystick or keyboard is used to navigate the world (though it 
will soon be possible to use one of the gloves to navigate.)  Each person 
can "select" a different virtual object by "pointing" at it.  If the user 
makes a fist, the selected object follows the motion of the user's hand.  
The object can be rotated (tilted) by making a "pinch" gesture.  The two 
participants can be manipulating separate objects without restriction.  If 
both people select the same object, the controlling user is determined 
dynamically: The last person to make a gesture is the one who has control.  
For example, one person may be moving an object with a "fist" gesture.  If 
the second person makes a "pinch" gesture, the first person can no longer 
move the object; instead, the second person is now rotating the object.  If 
the first person then flattens his hand and re-forms a fist, then they 
could again have control.  This level of interactivity in Virtual Reality 
has not been previously achieved with such minimal hardware requirements. 
This software and hardware has been exhibited at the Virtual Reality 
Systems conference in New York March 15-17, and will be exhibited at IEEE's 
Electro Conference in Piscataway, New Jersey April 27-29.  VRASP is proud 
to bring this news to you first and provide you with the means to put 
together a low-cost PC Virtual Reality system.

-----------------------------------

As I have stated more than once (on the glove-list), the two glove prgram 
uses the "alternate polling" technique, so that the gloves can be operated 
in close proximity.  I also have versions of "o2glove" style demo that 
works with two gloves under DOS and Windows.  I'm getting ready to release 
them.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________


From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Sun Mar 21 09:08:46 1993
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	id <AA15814>; Sun, 21 Mar 93 09:08:46 -0500
Message-Id: <9303211408.AA15814@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 09:08:06 EST
To: rend386@sunee

Can any one help this guy?  I haven't had time to do a Logitech
driver: has anyone else?
--------------------------------

From psych!engr.ucf.edu!uhs Sat Mar 20 11:16:08 1993
	id <AA01193>; Sat, 20 Mar 93 11:16:31 -0500
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	id AA11075; Sat, 20 Mar 93 11:15:05 EST
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 93 11:15:05 EST
From: uhs@engr.ucf.edu (University High School)
Message-Id: <9303201615.AA11075@apocalypse.engr.ucf.edu>
Subject: Logetec Tracker Driver/ren386
Status: RO

I'm a High School Teacher from Orlando Fl., we are located 3 miles from the
Institute of Simulation and Training.  Because of our close proximity we have
begun to dabble in VR.  We are working with IST on a mentor basis, and have 
started our own VR project.  The project is called the Virtual Surf; using
a mini tramp and a logetec tracker.  We will be develping the world using
ren386 but need a driver for the tracker. Do you have one developed already, or
do you plan to develop one, do know someone who has; if so could let us know.
Thanks,


Rob Catto
Teacher
University High School
Orlando Fl
(407) 275-7627
--------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just a psycho-engineer ??               |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From broehl  Sun Mar 21 11:23:45 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA16500>; Sun, 21 Mar 93 11:23:45 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303211623.AA16500@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Forwarded mail...
To: rend386
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 93 11:23:45 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Can any one help this guy?  I haven't had time to do a Logitech
> driver: has anyone else?

I'm writing one right now; I'm borrowing a Logitech tracker from the Computer
Graphics Lab, so development is a little slow (borrow tracker, set it up,
test the driver, disconnect the tracker, return it, repeat as needed).


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon Mar 22 06:09:24 1993
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	id <AA28742>; Mon, 22 Mar 93 06:09:24 -0500
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 22 Mar 1993 10:39:01 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <28455.9303221037@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 2 Gloves on 1 PC
To: 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM (Mark T. Pflaging)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 10:37:33 GMT
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <930320204916_70233.1552_CHV36-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Mark T. Pflaging" at Mar 20, 93 3:49 pm
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Mark T. Pflaging said:
> of the system by allowing cooperation (or competition) between two people 
> when selecting, moving, and rotating objects that are part of a three 
> dimensional system.  REND386 also includes the capability to generate 
> stereoscopic views compatible with Sega 3D glasses or the Toshiba 3 
> Dimension Scope.

Presumably you can't actually *use* 3-D glasses with 2 people at the
same time, since their heads would have to occupy the same physical space
to get the perspective right...? (or do you have an optical work-around?).

What's the "Toshiba 3 Dimension Scope" -- is it a new device or is it
the full name for the Tosh 3-D specs?

Chris
cph@dmu.ac.uk

From ml4477@csc.albany.edu  Mon Mar 22 19:32:06 1993
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From: ml4477@csc.albany.edu (Marc "Sting" Lefebvre)
Message-Id: <9303230030.AA19500@sarah.albany.edu>
Subject: rend386 info please...
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 19:30:38 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hello all,

	I have a few questions about rend386 (I have been saving them
till I had a few,  saves bandwidth).

	1) Does anyone have a listing of load errors and
their meanings?  I have gotten load errors of -2 and -4.  Not sure
of what I did wrong, I could not acertain what exactly was the problem.

	2) Is their a listing of cooresponding colors to numbers
chart?  I figured out that 0 is black,  etc...  but  I would like a
listing of all possibilities.

	3) How come in the *.wld files  the skycolor opcode
doesn't seem to work?  No matter what value I place in it I get a pale
blue sky.  Any fixes??

	4) Are there any limits to the size of an object?
Forexample I used the globe program with a radius of 900 and when I
tried to load it into rend386 I got a load error of some kind.  I
thought it may be too large for rend386 to handle.

	5) What are the MAX, MIN for the xyz in rend386.  ie.  How
large of a world can you design? 

	6) Has anyone once in rend386 used the load and save options?
I have tried and tried and they don't seem to do anything.  I have set
the environmental variable REND386 to my data directory containing ALL
of the plg, fig and wld files.  Nothing happens except when I load it
says, "Could not load file."  Any help here??

	Well that is all.  I hope someone is all knowing out there and
these are simple questions.  Thanks for all of your time!

--- 
  ___________________________________________________________________________
 /    **   ****	                                   |     World Cup 1994	     \
|    **   **  **   Marc A. Lefebvre	   	   |        --USA--           |
|   **   **    **   Computer Science Department    |"He shoots ... he scores!"|
|  **	**  *   **   University of Albany          |--------------------------|
| *******  ********                                | "Don't Drink and Derive" |
|		"I'd rather be Windsurfing!"       `--------------------------|
|  ml4477@sarah.albany.edu      lefebvre@pbush.com     marc@nick.csh.rit.edu  |
 \___________________________________________________________________________/
















From BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu  Mon Mar 22 23:09:14 1993
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 <01GW4HMNYOGG8WY5HT@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>; Mon, 22 Mar 1993 22:08:14 CST
Date: 22 Mar 1993 22:08:13 -0600 (CST)
From: BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: Rend386 Book
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GW4HMNYY428WY5HT@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello all,
  Back before the beginning of the year there was mention of a Rend386
book by the Waite Group.  I submitted a world and was wondering if a
semi-official release date has been set or if the book was being 
postponed because of all these recent and exciting things going on with
the glove (2 glove version of Rend386, etc...)
 
Thanks!
-Jason Barile
 barilejb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu

From 70233.1552@compuserve.com  Tue Mar 23 01:02:36 1993
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	id AA22541; Tue, 23 Mar 93 01:02:30 -0500
Date: 23 Mar 93 00:54:14 EST
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: GloveList <glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>
Subject: RE: 2 Gloves on 1 PC
Message-Id: <930323055413_70233.1552_CHV51-2@CompuServe.COM>

Chris Hand wrote:
"Presumably you can't actually *use* 3-D glasses with 2 people at 
the same time, since their heads would have to occupy the same 
physical space to get the perspective right...? (or do you have an 
optical work-around?)."

Well I just made a connector that supports two separate pairs of 
glasses.  The perspective is a little bit off for each of the 
people, but in fact you can move your head around (while wearing 
the LCD specs), without destroying the 3D effect.  It doesn't look 
"right" - the perspective does not adjust to your viewing angle - 
but it still looks 3D.  I have no "optical work around."

In terms of building the 2 glasses connector, I did NOT simply add 
another jack.  I'm pretty sure that, because of the power consumed 
by the LCDs, one 4030 chip will support only one pair of glasses. 
 I could be completely wrong about this however.  (The next time I 
get my hands on another pair of 3D specs I'll test it out.)  What 
I _DID_ do was to take two identical , but separate, connectors 
and wire them to the same serial port.  Perhaps a diagram:  (I'm 
no ASCII artist tho.)


THIS WORKS:
       +-----------+
       |Serial Port|
       +-----------+
	 |   |   |
	 |   |   |
         +-----------------------+
         |   |   |		 |
	 |   +-----------------------+
	 |   |   |               |   |
         |   |   +-----------------------+
	 |   |	 | 		 |   |   |
      +-------------+      +-------------+
      | Connector 1 |      | Connector 2 |
      +-------------+      +-------------+
             |             	   |
             |                     |
           _   _                 _   _
          /.\_/.\               /.\_/.\ 
          \_/ \_/               \_/ \_/
         (glasses)             (glasses)


THIS PROBABLY DOESN"T WORK:
       +-----------+
       |Serial Port|
       +-----------+
	 |   |   |
	 |   |   |
	 |   |	 |
      +-------------+
      | Connector 1 |
      +-------------+
             |
	     +---------------------+
             |                     |
           _   _        
          /.\_/.\               /.\_/.\ 
          \_/ \_/               \_/ \_/
         (glasses)             (glasses)

"What's the "Toshiba 3 Dimension Scope" -- is it a new device or 
is it the full name for the Tosh 3-D specs?"

They are one and the same.  The official carrying case that came 
with my pair reads "Toshiba 3D 3 Dimension Scope VDG3D1".


While I'm posting this, I wanted to know more about the following 
tidbit from the PGSI FAQ sheet:  "Another of our members
Chris Wilson (cwilson@ncsa.uiuc.edu) has writen a windows 3.1 
application called Maestro II.  Maestro allows you to use the 
glove on a virtual keyboard that outputs to a midi device."  Does 
anyone have any more information on this program?  What it does?  
Is it useful or a toy?  Is there a "parallel hack" version?  
Thanks.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________



From broehl  Tue Mar 23 10:21:48 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA19597>; Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:21:48 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303231521.AA19597@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: re: rend386 info please...
To: rend386
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:21:46 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 	1) Does anyone have a listing of load errors and
> their meanings?  I have gotten load errors of -2 and -4.  Not sure
> of what I did wrong, I could not acertain what exactly was the problem.

I've added textual error messages to the release we're working on now.

> 	2) Is their a listing of cooresponding colors to numbers
> chart?  I figured out that 0 is black,  etc...  but  I would like a
> listing of all possibilities.

If you display the color palette while in rend386, you can look at a color
and multiply its row by 16 and add its column (both origin zero).
 
> 	3) How come in the *.wld files  the skycolor opcode
> doesn't seem to work?

Because there's a bug.  Fixed in the next release.
 
> 	4) Are there any limits to the size of an object?

Yes, but it's very large.

> Forexample I used the globe program with a radius of 900 and when I
> tried to load it into rend386 I got a load error of some kind.  I
> thought it may be too large for rend386 to handle.

More likely it had too many vertices or polygons to fit in the available
memory; remember that rend386 currently keeps all its data in conventional
memory (i.e. below 640k).
 
> 	5) What are the MAX, MIN for the xyz in rend386.  ie.  How
> large of a world can you design? 

We use 32 bit integers, but you should keep it less than the full range
because of roundoff and stuff.  Dave could probably tell you how many bits
we allow, but I seem to recall it's around 24 or so.
 

From broehl  Tue Mar 23 10:38:40 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA19929>; Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:38:40 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303231538.AA19929@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Rend386 Book (fwd)
To: rend386
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 10:38:39 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From: BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu

>   Back before the beginning of the year there was mention of a Rend386
> book by the Waite Group.  I submitted a world and was wondering if a
> semi-official release date has been set

The book, Virtual Reality Creations, is due out at the end of June.  It'll
include your world, and a dozen others.

> all these recent and exciting things going on with
> the glove (2 glove version of Rend386, etc...)

Unfortunately, the 2 glove version that Mark did is a very recent development,
so it isn't mentioned in the book.  (I'm hoping there's still time to fit in
a mention in the closing notes, but I don't want to promise anything).


From broehl  Tue Mar 23 11:52:31 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA21177>; Tue, 23 Mar 93 11:52:31 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303231652.AA21177@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New PLG files available
To: rend386
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 11:52:30 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Todd Porter, using a modified version of Northcad 3D, has created a number
of interesting PLG files.  They're now on sunee.uwaterloo.ca, in the
pub/rend386/plgfiles directory; the file name is "ncad.zip".

You will get *much* better throughput if you ftp during the late evening
or early morning hours, EST; our entire campus is connected to the Internet
using a single 56kb line.


From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Tue Mar 23 13:03:39 1993
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:07:47 EST
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: Mode what?
To: rend386@sunee

Hi all,

        Could someone explain the difference between Mode X and Mode Y
and why the save_pcx() routine only works in Mode Y?  How do I make
sure I'm in Mode Y?  Thanks!!

-Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From nishimoto@3d.enet.dec.com  Tue Mar 23 14:25:19 1993
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 11:25:13 PST
From: Pete Nishimoto ML01-2/C30 223-6343  23-Mar-1993 1419 <nishimoto@3d.enet.dec.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Cc: nishimoto@3d.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386 Book


	Where can I get info on getting this book or "Virtual Reality
	Creations" (are they the same, etc.?)

				pete

From 72330.770@compuserve.com  Tue Mar 23 22:21:34 1993
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Date: 23 Mar 93 21:51:10 EST
From: Jerry Isdale <72330.770@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee>
Subject: 2 glasses on 1 port
Message-Id: <930324025109_72330.770_EHL56-4@CompuServe.COM>

Mark Pflagging wrote:
 > I'm pretty sure that, because of the power consumed 
 > by the LCDs, one 4030 chip will support only one pair of glasses. 
 > I could be completely wrong about this however. 

Sorry, mark, but this time you are wrong (lucky for us). 
 I have direct empircal evidence that one 4030 will support several
glasses. I have had 2 Toshiba and 1 Sega connected to my setup at 
one time during some demos. It worked quite fine. There may be some
requirements for a fairly good power supply on the other side of 
the serial port, but i dont think it is too heavy. My demo system
is a 486 notebook.

Next time you do a demo, get a couple extra pair of glasses and some 
Radio Shack Y adapters. I have found it a) helpful when you can see 
the world to help out the neophite and b) better to get more people
into the experience without driving them crazy from flickering screens.

Jerry

From kollasch_kent@ae.ge.com  Wed Mar 24 09:26:22 1993
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From: Kent C. Kollasch <kollasch_kent@ae.ge.com>
Subject: Would someone please remove me from this mailing list?
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 9:22:59 EST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]

Does anyone know who I should contact about removing me from this mailing
list?

Kent
--

snail mail                voice mail                e-mail
##########                ##########                ######
Kent C. Kollasch          Work # (513) 552-3116     kollasch@c0186.ae.ge.com
Sr. Systems Developer
GE Aircraft Engines
Mail Drop S207            Dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind.  
55 Merchant St.           Same old song, nothing last forever but the earth 
Cincinnati, OH  45246     and sky.        -- Kansas --

From apex@netcom.com  Wed Mar 24 16:41:42 1993
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	id <AA19981>; Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:41:42 -0500
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 13:41:17 -0800
From: apex@netcom.com (Apex Voice Communications)
Message-Id: <9303242141.AA02429@netcom2.netcom.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Mac version of 386?

Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has attempted/succeeded at porting rend386
to the Macintosh. Any info is appreciated.

Zack T. Smith
apex@netcom.com


From broehl  Wed Mar 24 16:54:37 1993
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	id <AA20257>; Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:54:37 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303242154.AA20257@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Mac version of 386?
To: rend386
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:54:35 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From: apex@netcom.com (Apex Voice Communications)
> To: rend386@sunee
> Subject: Mac version of 386?
> 
> I was wondering whether anyone has attempted/succeeded at porting rend386
> to the Macintosh. Any info is appreciated.

This is one of the most Frequently Asked Questions we've received.
The short answer is "no".  The long answer is that it's called rend386 for
a reason; we didn't want to create any false hope in people who are on
other platforms.  Since rend386 has lots of inline 386 assembly language,
porting would be very very difficult; unless you're intimately familiar
with both 386 and 68000 assembly language (and almost nobody is), I wouldn't
even bother trying.

You'd be further ahead re-implementing from scratch.  You probably want to
use Quickdraw or something to do the low-level polygon-filling, if Quickdraw
is fast enough.


From ml4477@csc.albany.edu  Thu Mar 25 13:40:07 1993
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From: ml4477@csc.albany.edu (Marc "Sting" Lefebvre)
Message-Id: <9303251839.AA24710@sarah.albany.edu>
Subject: More info and some ideas...
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 13:39:17 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi all again,

	First I have some more questions...

	I am designing a world which is basically our solar system
using the PLGSTARS program written by Bernie and the RENDGLOBE program
(sorry I don't remember who wrote this one) and I load these two
objects into a world (first manually then using the world file format).
What is happening is that when I load a planet (sphere) into a 
starfield (3d dot plain) the colors on the planet are getting 
screwed up.  I have on that is yellow and when it is placed in a 
starfield it becomes a multi-colored sphere and parts of the sphere 
disappear occasionally.  From some angles it looks perfect but
sometimes it doesn't.  I also tried a modification to the PLGSTARS 
code where I can specify an area not to place any stars so that I 
can place a planet into that area (thinking that maybe the
intersection of stars with the planet may cause the problem) and
it still persists.  Is it possible that this may be fixed by using the
splitting planes around the planets?  Just an idea...

	Also,  once in rend386 can you modify the sky and ground color
values? If so, how?


	Now  I have some ideas for possible added features for
rend386.  These features may move the rend386 environment to include
the ability to be a world building tool kit as well....  but
anyways...

	A nice added feature would be to be able to save out of
rend386, figure files, and world files.  The figure files should work
just like saving a plg file. You select the entire object and then
call a save option.  To save a world you would call a save option that
would create a *.wld file that would reproduce what is currently
loaded into rend386.  

	Also a nice ability to move objects a greater
distance when you select an object to move.  Rather than just the size
of the screen.  Being able to select the go option while an object is
selected would actually place the object at those coordinates.

	A user interface of some kind that when you go to load a plg,
fig, or wld file you would get a file listing of all *.plg, *.fig, and *.wld
files that you could possibly load.  And based on the suffix, rend386
could tell if it was loading a plg, fig, or wld file.


	I am not sure if these suggestions would take rend386 towards
something it was not intended but please give me input as to what you
think and maybe Dave and Bernie could include some of these ideas in a
future release of rend386. (maybe they have already thought of these
ideas?  :-)    )

	Thanks for your replys to my last inquiry

--- 
  ___________________________________________________________________________
 /    **   ****	                                   |     World Cup 1994	     \
|    **   **  **   Marc A. Lefebvre	   	   |        --USA--           |
|   **   **    **   Computer Science Department    |"He shoots ... he scores!"|
|  **	**  *   **   University of Albany          |--------------------------|
| *******  ********                                | "Don't Drink and Derive" |
|		"I'd rather be Windsurfing!"       `--------------------------|
|  ml4477@sarah.albany.edu      lefebvre@pbush.com     marc@nick.csh.rit.edu  |
 \___________________________________________________________________________/


From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Thu Mar 25 21:42:38 1993
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	id <AA14657>; Thu, 25 Mar 93 21:42:38 -0500
Message-Id: <9303260242.AA14657@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 21:41:47 EST
To: rend386@sunee

Subject: Logitech 6D mouse

I got a couple of evenings free and created a Logitech 6D mouse
driver, especially designed for head tracking.  Because of time
limitations, and bugs in the Release 4 headtracker slot software,
it will have to be released as a update of Release 4, as an
internal driver.  Some things, such as the .CFG file commands
for it, will be for this update only.

For those of you who program  Source code changes are an added module and
modifications to demo4.c (startup order), joystick.c (interrupt stuff),
pointer.c (internal driver setup), and hdmanip.c (removed recentering,
as it doesn't work).

As on a few minutes ago, everything works.  The big triangle goes about
2 feet over your head (things get flakey at 3 feet), top pointing ahead.
One of the receiver triangles sits on top of your head.  Full 360 degree
rotate, about 60 degree tilt and roll.  Not perfect, but it works OK.

Hope to get it up for FTP next week sometime.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just a psycho-engineer ??               |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


From 70233.1552@compuserve.com  Sun Mar 28 11:04:28 1993
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	id <AA13199>; Sun, 28 Mar 93 11:04:28 -0500
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	id AA08353; Sun, 28 Mar 93 09:02:33 -0500
Date: 28 Mar 93 08:58:11 EST
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: GloveList <glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: Fringeware List <fringeware@wixer.cactus.org>,
        REND386-List <rend386@sunee>,
        Internet Sci-VW <hlab@milton.u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE:  PC Based VR Workshop
Message-Id: <930328135810_70233.1552_CHV51-9@CompuServe.COM>

To all-
	Information about the

		     PC-Based VR Glove Workshop
		           sponsored by

	The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals

     >> conducted as part of IEEE's Electro '93 Conference at the <<
     >>  Garden State Convention Center in Somerset, New Jersey   <<

	                April 27-29, 1993

was inadvertently left out.

The duration of the workshop is two hours.  Participants can select
whether they want to attend the Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday
workshop. 

It was possible to infer from the registration form that the workshop was
three days long.  This is NOT the case.  I apologize for any confusion.
All people who register will be contacted to verify that they understand
that the duration of the workshop is two hours on one day.
 
There are some other minor corrections and additions. The workshop will
discuss how to connect two power gloves to one PC parallel port, and
use them simultaneously. Gesture recognition was listed as a POSSIBLE
topic, but Mark's implementation of gesture recognition WILL BE addressed
as part of the main presentation.  Also we'll be talking about using the
glove in MS Windows.  Users will get Windows software and we'll have
a Windows system as part of the hands-on tutorial.



From MALANCT1@JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU  Sun Mar 28 14:56:13 1993
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	id <AA16123>; Sun, 28 Mar 93 14:56:13 -0500
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 14:53:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Carmen T Malangone <MALANCT1@JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU>
Subject: Sega chip 
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <733348390.840000.MALANCT1@JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU>
Mail-System-Version: <MultiNet-MM(330)+TOPSLIB(156)@JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU>

  
  If anyone has assembled the circuit for the Sega glasses and 386, could
 you please email me info as to where I might find the RCA CD chip
 found in the circuit.  Also, any other info regarding construction
 of the hardware is welcomed.
  
                            I need all the help I can get,
  
                                  Carmen Malangone
                              malanct1@juncol.juniata.edu

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Mon Mar 29 16:50:40 1993
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	id <AA03760>; Mon, 29 Mar 93 16:50:40 -0500
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	id AA19702; Mon, 29 Mar 1993 14:48:35 -0700
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 14:48:35 -0700
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9303292148.AA19702@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: MALANCT1@JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Sega chip

Carmen:

  DIGIKEY has them at 1-800-DIGI-KEY.  No minimum order as I remember.

joe

From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Mon Mar 29 22:23:43 1993
Received: from gsvms2.cc.GaSoU.edu by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA07890>; Mon, 29 Mar 93 22:23:43 -0500
Date:    Mon, 29 Mar 1993 22:22:55 -0500 (EST)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930329222255.a76a@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: Solar System
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Didn't I see someone out there who was designing a solar system?
I have built one also would you like to have it?  Got a cool saturn.  Also
did you get the star field worked out sounded neat?

Todd Porter
so92332@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu

From griff@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  Tue Mar 30 18:28:34 1993
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 17:28:25 -0600
From: griff@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (yo'man)
Message-Id: <9303302328.AA03871@sleepy.cc.utexas.edu>
To: rend386@sunee


		THE UT IEEE COMPUTER SOCIETY ANNOUNCES

		     A SEMINAR ON VIRTUAL REALITY

		WHEN: April 5th and 6th from 6:00-8:00

		       WHERE: Monday: CPE 2.214
			  Tuesday: RLM 4.102
			      UT Campus

The IEEE Computer Society Student Branch at the University of Texas
will be hosting a seminar on Virtual Reality.  The purpose of this
seminar is to make available to students and interested public what
Virtual Reality is, how it works, and where its going.

Speakers will be from UT and area Corporations.

Monday, April 5th, CPE 2.214
              6:00  Dr Don Fussel, UT Computer Science Professor
                        Introduction and Overview

              7:15  Paco Xander Nathan, FringeWare, Inc.
                        Fringe Applications of VR

Tuesday, April 6th, RLM 4.102

              6:00  Mark Tarleton, MCC
                        Software Framework for VR Systems

              7:00  Greg Meredith, MCC
                        Alternative Visualizations

	      8:00  Andrew Wheeler, Chris Chuter, ECE Undergraduates
                        Demonstration 

Food and Refreshments will be served at both dates.

Admission is free.

Any questions can be mailed to ieee-cs@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu, or by
phone, 471-5038.

------------------------------
Btw, the demonstration will hopefully be our serial networked Rend386
application we're currently working on.  If we don't get done w/ it then
we'll have a 486/Powerglove/Sega system.  Anyone try to link two machines
together yet?    

Andrew Wheeler
Applied Research Laboratories
University of Texas at Austin



From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Wed Mar 31 15:00:00 1993
Received: from gsvms2.cc.GaSoU.edu by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA10752>; Wed, 31 Mar 93 15:00:00 -0500
Date:    Wed, 31 Mar 1993 13:10:35 -0500 (EST)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930331131035.d496@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: Solar System .WLD
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Bernie your still here...sent some messages to you but never got a response,
thought you took a vacation maybe <G>.

>> Didn't I see someone out there who was designing a solar system?

>Yup, Mark Pflaging.

Marc Lefebve

>> I have built one also would you like to have it?

>Definitely -- the more the better.

Got a decent response I'll just put it up to sunee when I get a chance so
everyone can get it instead of sending to everyone.

>> Also did you get the star field worked out sounded neat?

>Boy, I must be getting old... I've already forgotten what this was in
>reference to...?

Bernie you wrote the star field generator didn't you?  I beleive it came
from sunee, could be wrong though.  I haven't tried it yet but Marc said
it was causing his colors to get messed up when he put stars into the world.

Todd Porter
so92332@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu

From broehl  Wed Mar 31 16:23:39 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA13500>; Wed, 31 Mar 93 16:23:39 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9303312123.AA13500@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New data for REND386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 16:23:38 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Todd Porter has contributed a nice chessboard with chess pieces; it can
be found on sunee.uwaterloo.ca (in pub/rend386/plgfiles/chess.zip).

As always, remember that transfers to or from sunee will be much, much
faster late at night and early in the morning than during the day.

Also remember to transfer .zip files in binary mode!

-- 
	Bernie Roehl
        University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From 72330.770@compuserve.com  Thu Apr  1 12:38:17 1993
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	id <AA01726>; Thu, 1 Apr 93 12:38:17 -0500
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	id AA25581; Thu, 1 Apr 93 12:37:57 -0500
Date: 01 Apr 93 12:31:44 EST
From: Jerry Isdale <72330.770@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee>
Subject: What Is VR - posted doc
Message-Id: <930401173143_72330.770_EHL23-2@CompuServe.COM>

Hi folks,
 Last nite i posted my "What Is VR? A Homebrew Introduction" to Sunee's
incoming area. The file, whatisvr.zip, should be available for downloading by
the time you receive this. It is about 30K and prints out to maybe 25-30 pages.

 Aside from giving a background on VR technology, basics of a VR program, etc.,
the file gives a list of US and international VRSIGs, FTP sites, Internet
newsgroups, VR Journals/newsletters, VR Books, Computer Graphics and other
background books, a short list of some academic research labs, and a list of
commercial companies involved with VR.
 In short, it is your basic all round introduction to VR.
 If anyone has comments or suggestions or corrections, please send them to me! 

Jerry Isdale,
 i.e. Isdale Engineering
 Project (Cheer)Leader, Group 3 (Compuserve based Homebrew VR)
 Member VRASP, LA-VRSIG

(I'll be putting this file on some other FTP & BBS sites when I have time. Feel
free to copy and distribute the file anywhere you wish)

From broehl  Thu Apr  1 15:37:27 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA06006>; Thu, 1 Apr 93 15:37:27 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9304012037.AA06006@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New "What is VR" document available
To: rend386
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 15:37:26 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Last nite i posted my "What Is VR? A Homebrew Introduction" to Sunee's
> incoming area. The file, whatisvr.zip, should be available for downloading by
> the time you receive this. It is about 30K and prints out to maybe 25-30
> pages.

All of which are worth reading.  Thanks for the great work, Jerry!
I've put the file onto pub/vr/documents/whatisvr.zip, so you should all
be able to get it now.

From 70233.1552@compuserve.com  Thu Apr  1 23:22:30 1993
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	id <AA12240>; Thu, 1 Apr 93 23:22:30 -0500
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	id AA02107; Thu, 1 Apr 93 23:22:24 -0500
Date: 01 Apr 93 23:13:44 EST
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>
Subject: Solar System World
Message-Id: <930402041344_70233.1552_CHV144-5@CompuServe.COM>

All-
	I was the one created a solar system world a while ago for Dave & 
Bernie's book.  With their permission I will upload it to Cserve and sunee 
but until then you can get it by emailing me directly.  It's way cool.  
"Also did you get the star field worked out?" No. The plg generated by 
stars.exe is VERY weird.  Take a look at it sometime.  I don't think it's a 
problem with rend386 but rather with the .plg file.  But I'm usually wrong 
about these things, maybe bernie or dave can put this question to rest??

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________


From twisto!bangate.compaq.com!Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@compaq.com  Fri Apr  2 08:25:47 1993
Received: from wotan.compaq.com by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
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	(Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0nelhw-0006IAC; Fri, 2 Apr 93 07:22 CST
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Received: by bangate.compaq.com with VINES ; Fri,  2 Apr 93 07:22:55 CST
Date: Fri,  2 Apr 93 07:20:39 CST
From: Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: CHESS.PLG
To: rend386@sunee
Cc: 

           connect sunee.uwaterloo.ca
           binary
           uuencode
           get  pub/rend386/plgfiles/chess.zip
           quit

From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Fri Apr  2 10:23:54 1993
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	id <AA18855>; Fri, 2 Apr 93 10:23:54 -0500
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	id AA00770; Fri, 2 Apr 1993 06:59:04 -0700
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 06:59:04 -0700
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9304021359.AA00770@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: 70233.1552@compuserve.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Solar System World

Mark: 

  This is joe.  Can you email the solar system.  Thanks

joe

From broehl  Fri Apr  2 13:31:13 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA21841>; Fri, 2 Apr 93 13:31:13 -0500
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9304021831.AA21841@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New whatisvr document
To: rend386
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 13:31:13 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

The whatisvr.zip file had a problem with it; it should be okay now.

From stevetm@aol.com  Fri Apr  2 15:16:03 1993
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	id <AA23457>; Fri, 2 Apr 93 15:16:03 -0500
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From: stevetm@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Render 386
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 93 00:10:05 EST
Message-Id: <9304020010.tn32923@aol.com>

Hello

Please add me to me to your mailing list for render 386 or any other virtual
reality projects.

Thank you

stevetm@aol.com

From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Sat Apr  3 11:48:12 1993
Received: from gsvms2.cc.GaSoU.edu by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA20866>; Sat, 3 Apr 93 11:48:12 -0500
Date:    Fri, 2 Apr 1993 21:15:52 -0500 (EST)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930402211552.12431@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: Stars for solar sys.
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

ALL:

I wrote a starfield generator to try to fix the problem in plgstars.  It seems
to work for me.  It will not mess up the colors now.  I sent it to sunee and I
guess Bernie will put it out soon.  I didn't send it zipped but I assume Bernie
will zip it up and call it STARS.ZIP.  Check it out and see if it works for you
and if not let me know.

Also for those without access to ftp if you have Turbo Pascal I will send you
the code in email to compile.

Todd Porter
so92332@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu


From dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca  Tue Apr  6 20:48:33 1993
Received: from mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA02134>; Tue, 6 Apr 93 20:48:33 -0400
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca); Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:44:42 -0400
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:44:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Beardwood <dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: unzipping
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.9304062037.F20090@mcmail>

Hi people,
	I've been reading the email on your developments, etc., so I
decided to download some of the demo files to give it a try.  The next
morning I tried unzipping it (the demo.zip file) and it gave me an error
such as 'Don't know how to handle <somedirectory>/<somefilename>.'  Am I
doing something wrong?  I've used the pkzip/unzip files before, and I've
never had this happen before.  (this is on an IBM clone, 486/33)  I then
tried one of the self-exploding files, and it just locks up the computer.
	I humbly ask you for any help.

	Thanks in advance...

	Dave
	dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca

From dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca  Tue Apr  6 20:44:18 1993
Received: from mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA02098>; Tue, 6 Apr 93 20:44:18 -0400
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  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca); Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:44:42 -0400
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 20:44:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Beardwood <dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: unzipping
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.9304062037.F20090@mcmail>

Hi people,
	I've been reading the email on your developments, etc., so I
decided to download some of the demo files to give it a try.  The next
morning I tried unzipping it (the demo.zip file) and it gave me an error
such as 'Don't know how to handle <somedirectory>/<somefilename>.'  Am I
doing something wrong?  I've used the pkzip/unzip files before, and I've
never had this happen before.  (this is on an IBM clone, 486/33)  I then
tried one of the self-exploding files, and it just locks up the computer.
	I humbly ask you for any help.

	Thanks in advance...

	Dave
	dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca

From broehl  Wed Apr  7 10:08:46 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA09484>; Wed, 7 Apr 93 10:08:46 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9304071408.AA09484@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Downloading .zip files
To: rend386
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 10:08:45 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Just another reminder to everyone that they should download .zip files
in BINARY mode.  This is far and away the single most common problem
people run into.


From williams@tfs.COM  Wed Apr  7 12:49:12 1993
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	id <AA11793>; Wed, 7 Apr 93 12:49:12 -0400
Received: from [140.145.253.252] by tfs.COM (5.61/1.00 (TRP - gateway))
	id AA11549; Wed, 7 Apr 93 09:49:01 -0700
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	id AA08731; Wed, 7 Apr 93 09:48:04 PDT
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 09:48:04 PDT
From: williams@tfs.COM (Randy Williams)
Message-Id: <9304071648.AA08731@ts2.TFS.COM>
To: dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  unzipping

Perhaps you're ftp'ing in text mode?  Make sure you specify binary before you
get any files.  Also, you may need a newer version of PKUNZIP.

Randy
williams@tfs.com

>Hi people,
>        I've been reading the email on your developments, etc., so I
>decided to download some of the demo files to give it a try.  The next
>morning I tried unzipping it (the demo.zip file) and it gave me an error
>such as 'Don't know how to handle <somedirectory>/<somefilename>.'  Am I
>doing something wrong?  I've used the pkzip/unzip files before, and I've
>never had this happen before.  (this is on an IBM clone, 486/33)  I then
>tried one of the self-exploding files, and it just locks up the computer.
>        I humbly ask you for any help.
>
>        Thanks in advance...
>
>        Dave
>        dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
>

From cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu  Wed Apr  7 16:39:29 1993
Received: from hopper.acs.Virginia.EDU by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA14751>; Wed, 7 Apr 93 16:39:29 -0400
Message-Id: <9304072039.AA14751@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Meeting for live chat?
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 16:39:03 -0500 (EDT)
From: Chris W. Morris <cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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To any concerned:

 Is there a possibility that we can meet at a designated time on IRC to discuss
various aspects of Rend386 and VR? Perhaps we could share ideas and benefit 
from our synergy.  I believe it would be a great time had by all. 

Thanks for your interest,
Chris W. Morris
-- 
/----\ cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu * "One must pass through the circumference
|\/\/      Chris W. Morris         *  of time before arriving at the center of 
|/\/\     2204 Wayne Avenue        *  opportunity." - Baltasar Graci'an 
\----/ Charlottesville, VA 22901   *  The future lies ahead. -Political Promise 

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sun Apr 18 11:15:12 1993
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	id <AA16865>; Sun, 18 Apr 93 11:15:12 -0400
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sun, 18 Apr 1993 02:53:10 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 93 02:52:58 BST
Message-Id: <26929.9304180152@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee

Path: dmu.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!scivw
From: Chris Morris <cwm@hopper.virginia.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: EVENT: REND386/VR Meeting on IRC Sunday April 18, 9:30PM EST
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1993 03:54:17 GMT
Organization: ITC/UVA Community Access UNIX/Internet Project
Lines: 24
Approved: cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <1qq2v2INN847@shelley.u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Originator: scivw@stein.u.washington.edu



To all interested:

You are invited to join others in a REND386/VR related chat on IRC.
The more people the better. This is an informal chat, so even if you
don't have a lot of technical knowledge your ideas are welcome.
Hopefully, the authors of rend386 will be there. Sunday, April 18,
9:30PM EST #Rend386.

Thanks for your time,
Chris W. Morris
cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu

/----\ cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu * "One must pass through the circumference
|\/\/      Chris W. Morris         *  of time before arriving at the center of 
|/\/\     2204 Wayne Avenue        *  opportunity." - Baltasar Graci'an 
\----/ Charlottesville, VA 22901   *  The future lies ahead. -Political Promise 

-- 
/----\ cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu * "One must pass through the circumference
|\/\/      Chris W. Morris         *  of time before arriving at the center of 
|/\/\     2204 Wayne Avenue        *  opportunity." - Baltasar Graci'an 
\----/ Charlottesville, VA 22901   *  The future lies ahead. -Political Promise 

From YCAI@WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU  Mon Apr 19 04:10:11 1993
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	id <AA25421>; Mon, 19 Apr 93 04:10:11 -0400
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 <01GX6B5QOE54AOKK5C@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU>; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 00:01:48 EST
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 00:01:48 -0500 (EST)
From: YCAI@WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU
Subject: Re: Rend386 Meeting
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GX6B5QOE56AOKK5C@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU>
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi, Rendmen:

I am a new comer of Rend386. I would like to hear from you:

   How to start programming with Rend386? (e.g. a robot arm animation)
   Is there any way to increase the resolution of the image, in case
   the speed is not critical?

Thank you!

Yang Cai

- WVU

From ml4477@csc.albany.edu  Mon Apr 19 09:57:11 1993
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	id <AA27994@sarah.albany.edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 93 09:57:05 EDT
From: ml4477@csc.albany.edu (Marc "Sting" Lefebvre)
Message-Id: <9304191357.AA27994@sarah.albany.edu>
Subject: PC interface to glove.
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 9:57:03 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


	I am currently having a problem with my glove interface.  I
have hooked up the printer port as described in a book called  "VR
Playhouse" which contained code from Bernie, and Dave and I hooked up
the glove to  LPT2.  I verified that all connections are good but I
don't seem to get anything from the glove.  When the interface is
plugged in and the glove is detatched the LED's on the sensors are lit
but when I plug in the glove nothing happens.  I hit the start and
select buttons and still nothing.  I also noticed that the LED on the
glove isn't lit at all.  Does this mean my glove is bad or am I
missing something?  Also, when I plug in the glove the LED's on the
sensors go out.  And the test programs don't return any data at all.
What could be the problem.  Is there anything that I need to set up as
far as IRQ or DMA setting for the LPT2 port?  Also,  is there anyway I
can tell if my LPT2 is enabled or not?

						Thanks for the info
					
--- 
  ___________________________________________________________________________
 /    **   ****	                                   |     World Cup 1994	     \
|    **   **  **   Marc A. Lefebvre	   	   |        --USA--           |
|   **   **    **   Computer Science Department    |"He shoots ... he scores!"|
|  **	**  *   **   University of Albany          |--------------------------|
| *******  ********                                | "Don't Drink and Derive" |
|		"I'd rather be Windsurfing!"       `--------------------------|
|  ml4477@sarah.albany.edu      lefebvre@pbush.com     marc@nick.csh.rit.edu  |
 \___________________________________________________________________________/

From cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu  Mon Apr 19 10:44:32 1993
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	id <AA28889>; Mon, 19 Apr 93 10:44:32 -0400
Message-Id: <9304191444.AA28889@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386/VR meeting on IRC Sunday @ 9:30EST #rend386
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 23:48:04 -0500 (EDT)
From: Chris W. Morris <cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 693

To all interested:

 You are invited to join others in a REND386/VR related chat on IRC.
The more people the better. This is an informal chat, so even if you don't
have a lot of technical knowledge your ideas are welcome. Hopefully, the authors
of rend386 will be there. Sunday, April 18, 9:30PM EST #Rend386.

Thanks for your time,
Chris W. Morris
cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu
-- 
/----\ cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu * "One must pass through the circumference
|\/\/      Chris W. Morris         *  of time before arriving at the center of 
|/\/\     2204 Wayne Avenue        *  opportunity." - Baltasar Graci'an 
\----/ Charlottesville, VA 22901   *  The future lies ahead. -Political Promise 

From BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu  Mon Apr 19 14:22:14 1993
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	id <AA01945>; Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:22:14 -0400
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 <01GX72YEN3288X7AAY@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>; Mon, 19 Apr 1993 13:08:18 CDT
Date: 19 Apr 1993 13:08:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: Compiling Demo4
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GX72YEN32A8X7AAY@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello all,
  Should a person be able to compile Demo4.EXE straight from the files
included within DEVEL4.ZIP, or are there some modifications that need to
be made?  I've unzipped everything to the directory c:\tc\rend386\...etc...
and all the sub-directories were made for Rend386.  I keep getting
"undefined symbol" errors when I compile.  
 
Thanks for any help!
-Jason Barile

From broehl  Tue Apr 20 10:44:34 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA13779>; Tue, 20 Apr 93 10:44:34 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9304201444.AA13779@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Two new utilities to work with rend386
To: rend386
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 10:44:33 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

John Bell has contributed two new utilities for use with rend386:

    mobius   - generates Mobius strips
    soccer   - generates soccer balls

They can be found in the pub/rend386/utils directory on sunee.uwaterloo.ca
as mobius.zip and soccer.zip.

Remember -- accessing sunee during the daytime is painfully slow!  For our
sake and yours, stick to off-peak hours (early mornings are good).

Also remember to transfer the files in binary mode, both when ftp'ing and
when downloading to your computer.  This continues to be the most common
source of errors.


From ml4477@csc.albany.edu  Tue Apr 20 23:46:01 1993
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	id <AA24013>; Tue, 20 Apr 93 23:46:01 -0400
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	id <AA04122@sarah.albany.edu>; Tue, 20 Apr 93 23:45:20 EDT
From: ml4477@csc.albany.edu (Marc "Sting" Lefebvre)
Message-Id: <9304210345.AA04122@sarah.albany.edu>
Subject: change e-mail address
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 23:45:25 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

please change my e-mail address from    ml4477@eve.albany.edu

		to:     lefebvre@pbush.com



						Thanks,
						Marc


From davidseth@aol.com  Wed Apr 21 00:24:02 1993
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From: davidseth@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 20:40:45 EDT
Message-Id: <9304202040.tn48076@aol.com>

I would like to be added to your mailing list.

My addres is:
David Peterson
1721 Nth 4 St.
Bismarck, ND 58501-1715

My computer addres is:
davidseth@aol.com

Thank you very much.

From coop3d34@bnr.ca  Wed Apr 21 19:52:25 1993
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 17:03:00 +0000 
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X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) 
Content-Identifier: Convertors an... 
From: "Roy (R.L.) Draughn" <coop3d34@bnr.ca>
Sender: "Roy (R.L.) Draughn" <coop3d34@bnr.ca>
Message-Id: <"19363 Wed Apr 21 19:34:58 1993"@bnr.ca> 
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Convertors and other things. 

Hi all,
 
I was just wondering if any one out there in rend386 land has written any 
convertors for demo4.  I would like to be able to import files from some 
type of CADD program on the PC or MAC to use in demo4. Specific formats are 
DXF, IGES, PICT,  or TIFF. I would appreciate any sources you could point me 
to.

Also, I have yet to get a complier for my PC, so I haven't been able to play 
with the development version of rend386.  Could someone who has, describe the 
interface. Does it allow you to draw and save objects and worlds or do you 
have to write the code (file) that describes the object? 

One last thing, could someone tell me if there is a racketball game 
available for rend386 and if so where is it located.

I would appreciate any and all responses.


					Regards,
 						
						Roy Draughn
						coop3d34@BNR.ca

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Apr 22 02:45:57 1993
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	id <AA16036>; Thu, 22 Apr 93 02:45:57 -0400
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Wed, 21 Apr 1993 13:32:57 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <25889.9304211232@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: REND386 and Menelli Box
To: glove-list@nas.nasa.gov
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 13:32:32 BST
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <930421073825.20222a21@SAPHIR.ULAVAL.CA>; from "DVALLEE@CA.ULAVAL.SAPHIR" at Apr 21, 93 4:38 am
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

DVALLEE@CA.ULAVAL.SAPHIR said:
> Is there a driver or something available for using REND386 with a PowerGlove
> hooked to a PC with the serial interface designed by Ron Menelli.

Good point!  Last I heard Bernie was working on a driver for Jim Brain's
PGSI thing which is similar (sends ASCII chars down the serial port).

Any word on this Bernie?

Chris


From gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu  Thu Apr 22 10:28:48 1993
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	id <AA22165>; Thu, 22 Apr 93 10:28:48 -0400
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	id AA06764; Thu, 22 Apr 1993 08:27:56 -0600
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 08:27:56 -0600
From: gradecki@rodeo.uwyo.edu (Joseph D. Gradecki)
Message-Id: <9304221427.AA06764@rodeo.uwyo.edu>
To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk, glove-list@nas.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: REND386 and Menelli Box
Cc: rend386@sunee

There is also a driver for the Serial interface from Ron in Issue 4 of
PCVR.

joe

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Tue Apr 27 08:58:34 1993
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	id <AA00845>; Tue, 27 Apr 93 08:58:34 -0400
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          (4.1/1.34/Lysator-3.1) id AA17035; Tue, 27 Apr 93 14:58:20 +0200
          (unknown)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 14:58:20 +0200
From: zap@lysator.liu.se
Message-Id: <9304271258.AA17035@maskros.lysator.liu.se>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Power Glow

Hi and Ho!

I just obtained a powerglove, after eight long weeks in a mailmans bag it
finnally arrived one in Sweden to.....

...however, the guy I purchased them from (Nicholas Vespern) promised to
include a "paper describing how to hook it to Rend386". Well, I guess
amnesia struck when he was packing the bag, cause no such paper
was included in the package.

Now I desperately cry out to help to you guys and gals in netland!

Is there, somwhere, available in electronic form, a description on how
to hook a PGlove with R386? Does it involve external electronics? Extra
power supplies? Have no fear - I am an electronics engineer, so I am
quite familiar with such thingies.....

I've also heard a rumor of a BYTE issue discussing this? If so, what make, 
model and year?

A zillion thanks in advance for any replies!

/Z/Z/Z
 
Eager to go glove-hunting ;-)

/Z/Z

From mulder@fwi.uva.nl  Wed Apr 28 11:59:04 1993
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	id <AA20749>; Wed, 28 Apr 93 11:59:04 -0400
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          id AA00789; Wed, 28 Apr 1993 15:29:04 +0200
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Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 15:29:04 +0200
Return-Path: <mulder@fwi.uva.nl>
From: mulder@fwi.uva.nl (Mullie (Jurriaan Mulder))
X-Organisation: Faculty of Mathematics & Computer Science
                University of Amsterdam
                Kruislaan 403
                NL-1098 SJ Amsterdam
                The Netherlands
X-Phone:        +31 20 525 7463
X-Telex:        10262 hef nl
X-Fax:          +31 20 525 7490
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: matrix_to_angle problem

Hi there,

I'm playing with Rend386 for a while now, and walked into a (small ?) problem.
It's about the function "matrix_to_angle."
This function seems to wrong values for the tilt angle, if this angle is close 
to 90 or -90 degrees.

I've looked at the code, but can't figure out what is excactly going on.
For instance, if I would make a rotation matrix, with pan = 0, tilt = 90, and
roll = 0 (no translation), the matrix would (in my opinion) look like this:

{ 1  0  0  0 }
{ 0  0 -1  0 }
{ 0  1  0  0 }
{ 0  0  0  1 }

If I go through the code, the matrix_to_angle function will come up with
pan = 90, tilt = 0, and roll = 0.

If the tilt angle is close to 90, for instance 87, the function seems to 
negate the tilt, so deliver -87.

Is this inherent to the used algorithm?
If so, is there any other algorithm that can solve the matrix to angle problem
correctly?
Or is this problem unsolvable?

Please help me out here, cause I would like to use this function.

TIA,

Mullie,

e-mail: mulder@fwi.uva.nl


From broehl  Wed Apr 28 17:11:10 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9304282111.AA27009@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Powerful new utility to work with REND386
To: rend386
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 17:11:09 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

A new utility called OGRE is now available.  It was written by David Boeren,
and it's pretty amazing.

It takes input scripts listing things like blocks, cylinders and so forth
and creates plg files.  The zip file includes a number of very impressive
examples.  It's a very good alternative to using IRIT and irit2plg.

OGRE is on sunee.uwaterloo.ca (filename pub/rend386/utils/ogre40.zip).
Please remember to transfer files during off-peak hours -- you'll get better
performance, and our link won't be quite as saturated.  Also remember to
use binary mode when transferring zip files.

From 72330.770@compuserve.com  Sun May  2 10:06:47 1993
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Date: 01 May 93 21:16:02 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72330.770@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee>
Subject: re: Power Glove & Rend
Message-Id: <930502011602_72330.770_EHK22-3@CompuServe.COM>

Z:
 When you got Rend386, you picked up Demo4.zip from sunee.uwaterloo.ca?
 (well maybe you picked it up elsewhere) 
 It should contain the file pgcable.doc. This explains how to do the
 hookup, including the pin connections, albet without a diagram.  
 Well, here is a bit more on the glove from one of the files we have
 on CompuServe...
 (note: view/print this using a mono-spaced font. otherwise the diagrams
will look weird.)

  Assemble at YOUR OWN RISK.  I have assembled this cable successfully from
these directions, BUT any  damage resulting from construction or use of this 
cable is YOUR problem, not mine.  (just in case... <g>)

The Connector:

       * 1
   7 * * 2
   6 * * 3     Looking AT the connector on glove cable
   5 * * 4

Pinout:
  1: Ground
  2: Clock
  3: Latch
  4: Data
  5: N/C (lightgun)
  6: N/C (lightgun)
  7: +5V

Connecting it to Parallel Port:
  Glove      Printer Port
  -----      ------------
    1           18  GND
    2            2  D0
    3            3  D1
    4           13  SLCT (input)

Power:
  Connect pin 7 on glove to any location with +5V from the computer.  Pin 1 on
any gameport is a good place.
Or, use the keyboard connector.  The +5V on keyboard should be pin 5 (may be
wrong here, I'm using an XT pinout) as follows:

  Looking at back of computer:
        3   1
        5   4
          2

The Cable:

  I highly recommend buying one of the extender cables (the Curtis Super
Extendo cable is around $7US for 2 cables) to chop up for the connector.  This
makes it easy to also use other Nintendo devices and allows TESTING the glove
and still being able to exchange it if defective.  (Plus you get a long cable
to the control box).
--------------
ps- i *STRONGLY* recommend using one of the extendo cables. It makes life much
easier. Esp. with the two glove version of Rend due out soon (from Mark
Pflaging).


From rcc@zycor.lgc.com  Mon May  3 00:34:56 1993
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From: rcc@zycor.lgc.com
Message-Id: <9305030434.AA00729@iroc.zycor.lgc.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: LCD Glasses problem...


  Hi folks,

     I've been playing around with REND386 and a pair of LCD glasses for a while
now, and I've experienced a problem that I'd like to get some input on.  

     It seems that the shutters on the glasses are not darkening completely,
resulting in 'residual imaging' to the left and right of the image being 
viewed.  I assume that others have experienced this as well, and I'm hoping
that there's an inexpensive fix.

     I'm using a pair of Nintendo glasses along with a Sega interface.

     Any info would be appreciated.

     Randy

From cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu  Mon May  3 09:32:07 1993
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	id <AA19231>; Mon, 3 May 93 09:32:07 -0400
Message-Id: <9305031332.AA19231@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: VRmeeting
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 09:32:03 -0500 (EDT)
From: Chris W. Morris <cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 918

To all interested:

 You are invited to join us in a REND386/VR related chat on IRC.
The more people the better. This is an informal chat, so even if you don't
have a lot of technical knowledge your ideas are welcome. Hopefully, the authors
of Rend386 will attend, as they did for our last session. Our sessions may
also be logged and kept on sunee.uwaterloo.ca, but this has not been 
finalized. Please bring your ideas and questions and perhaps we can benefit
from our collective synergy. Scheduled for Sunday, May 16, 1:00 PM EST.

Thanks for your time,
Chris W. Morris
cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu
-- 
/----\ cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu * "One must pass through the circumference
|\/\/      Chris W. Morris         *  of time before arriving at the center of 
|/\/\     2204 Wayne Avenue        *  opportunity." - Baltasar Graci'an 
\----/ Charlottesville, VA 22901   *  The future lies ahead. -Political Promise 


From broehl  Mon May  3 09:40:54 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9305031340.AA19408@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New, improved version of OGRE available
To: rend386
Date: Mon, 3 May 93 9:40:54 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

David Boeren's excellent OGRE utility for generating PLG files from
a script-like input language has been updated.  The latest version is
now on sunee.uwaterloo.ca (the filename is pub/rend386/utils/ogre41.zip).

The zip file was created with a recent version of pkzip; if your unzip
doesn't work, you can get pub/rend386/unzip.exe and it should work fine.

Remember to transfer files from sunee during off-peak periods only (after
6 pm EDT), and to use binary mode when transferring the files.


From airwick@nick.csh.rit.edu  Mon May  3 11:54:49 1993
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Date: Mon, 3 May 93 11:46:46 -0400
From: airwick@nick.csh.rit.edu (Eric Van Hensbergen)
Message-Id: <9305031546.AA12660@nick.csh.rit.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Amiga Version of Rend386


Has anyone thought of porting Rend386 to the Amiga.  I know Rend has lots of
386/486 specific code, but altering that is what porting is all about.  I
just think something with identical functionality to Rend386 would be 
very usefull, and Amiga users desparately need public software of this type.
I'm planning on doing it this summer, in coordination with my Virtual
Display project (which is part of the VR: Learning System Development group
here at RIT).  I just wanted to know if anyone else had done any work on it
yet.
			-Eric

From airwick@nick.csh.rit.edu  Mon May  3 12:46:40 1993
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From: airwick@nick.csh.rit.edu (Eric Van Hensbergen)
Message-Id: <9305031638.AA13584@nick.csh.rit.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Toshiba Glasses

Does anyone have an address source on the Toshiba shutter glasses or
Reel-3D.  I would very mush appreciate an address/phone to contact them by.
			-Airwick

From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Mon May  3 13:14:43 1993
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Date:    Mon, 3 May 1993 12:02:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930503120224.1b9db@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: LCD Glasses problem...
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

>Hi folks,

>     I've been playing around with REND386 and a pair of LCD glasses for a while
>now, and I've experienced a problem that I'd like to get some input on.  
>
>     It seems that the shutters on the glasses are not darkening completely,
>resulting in 'residual imaging' to the left and right of the image being 
>viewed.  I assume that others have experienced this as well, and I'm hoping
>that there's an inexpensive fix.
>
>     I'm using a pair of Nintendo glasses along with a Sega interface.
>
>     Any info would be appreciated.

Randy I've noticed the same thing with my Toshibas and have heard it from
others also...Don't know if anyone has tried to solve the prob yet though...if
you hear anything let me know also as people tend to reply directly to others
on this list instead of the list for everyone to see...off the soapbox now <G>

Todd Porter


From boeren@ist.ucf.edu  Mon May  3 17:21:38 1993
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From: boeren@ist.ucf.edu
Message-Id: <9305032115.AA22157@sg4.ist.ucf.edu>
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee

As you heard from Bernie, OGRE 4.1 is now up on uwaterloo.  I'm planning on
coming out with more updates soon, although finals kind of keep me from doing
as much development as I'd like.  Still, I want to keep everyone working with
the most current versions if possible.

I'd appreciate it if those of you who have tried it would get back to me
with some feedback and ideas for how it could be improved.  Also if anyone
makes any good object models, please send them to uwaterloo so that they will
be available to everyone, and include the scripts, not just the PLGs.

						David Boeren
						boeren@ist.ucf.edu


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon May  3 19:26:07 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Tue, 4 May 1993 00:25:33 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <17902.9305032325@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: LCD Glasses problem...
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 4 May 93 0:25:06 BST
In-Reply-To: <9305030434.AA00729@iroc.zycor.lgc.com>; from "rcc@com.lgc.zycor" at May 2, 93 11:34 pm
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

rcc@com.lgc.zycor said:
>      It seems that the shutters on the glasses are not darkening completely,
> resulting in 'residual imaging' to the left and right of the image being 
> viewed.  I assume that others have experienced this as well, and I'm hoping
> that there's an inexpensive fix.

I recently got out my SEGA specs and put the interface in a proper box, so
I checked out the synch again.

On my specs I can see REND386's "R" (in top right of screen), but I can't
see the "L" with my right eye.  As far as actual worlds are concerned, 
some stuff seems to bleed through worse than other stuff -- probably a 
combination of the contrast (white borders seem to ghost badly) and
colours used (an LCD person here tells me they respond badly to green).

Hint #1: Turning up the brightness and switching off other lights in
         the room helps a lot.

Hint #2: When building the SEGA circuit (the one without a 555) avoid
         handling the 4070 or 4030 CMOS chip until the last minute, and
         even then (a) Earth yourself first, and (b) don't touch the pins.
         This is standard procedure for handling CMOS, and I always do it,
         except yesterday when I killed a 4070 stone dead by touching the
         pins once by accident.  Good job I had a spare... Take care!

It wouldn't be *that* difficult to hack up a circuit that strips the
vertical blanking signal from the video and gates the LCD on/off signals
accordingly (assuming that we're actually getting L/R on alternate
video frames).  It would be less convenient having to connect up the
video cable, but should be "foolproof".

Has anyone already tried this?  Sync stripper chips are easy to come by...

Chris

--
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Linux: *free* unix for IBM PCs! <<

From boeren@ist.ucf.edu  Tue May  4 00:56:09 1993
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From: boeren@ist.ucf.edu
Message-Id: <9305040446.AA23075@sg4.ist.ucf.edu>
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee

I don't know if this will help much, but I am using a completely different SEGA
circuit.  It's much simpler, although admittedly not quite as capable.
Specifically, it cannot turn off both eyes.  One eye must always be dark.
However, it only requires two diodes and two resistors.  If anyone is
interested, I will do a drawing from my circuit and you can try it out.  
It's easy and cheap enough that anyone can do it.

Also, on the subject of ghosting:  A lot of it is problems with the human
eye.  Because of the rod/cone arrangement of human vision, some colors 
are more persistant, thus causing ghosting.  RED is one of the worst.
I wrote a very small program that displays two red lines in an X pattern,
one for left and right eyes while flipping the goggles, and it ghosted
much worse than other colors in the same program.

Does anyone have any information on the SEGA Virtua VR HMD yet?  I tried
talking to them, but they won't give anything out, saying that they don't
have that information yet to almost anything you ask.  They suggested that
they might know in a few months.  Even some basic info like resolution or
color capability would be greatly appreciated.  I am hoping it can do some
kind of RGB or something in stead of the stupid VGA palette stuff.  

One more quick note:  Expect a new version of OGRE in a few days.  I just put
in a WEDGE datatyle, which is like a cylinder which subtends a user-definable
angle instead of 360 degrees.  The next feature on my list is a 2D to 3D
extrusion of an ASCII map.  Great for mazes, building interiors, etc.
The basic idea is simple, but I need to do all the optimization of polygons
and stuff.  I'm also working on a smarter MERGE procedure.  Stay tuned...


From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Tue May  4 21:06:02 1993
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Date:    Tue, 4 May 1993 12:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930504121136.1c624@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: Sega Glasses Problem
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

>>      It seems that the shutters on the glasses are not darkening completely,
>> that there's an inexpensive fix.

>Chris Hand
>On my specs I can see REND386's "R" (in top right of screen), but I can't
>see the "L" with my right eye.  As far as actual worlds are concerned, 
>some stuff seems to bleed through worse than other stuff -- probably a 
>combination of the contrast (white borders seem to ghost badly) and
>colours used (an LCD person here tells me they respond badly to green).

It seems that mt LCD's do fine on most of the panel except for the lower
half...That is where they are not darkening completely.  Could this be fixed
with more power to the lcd's ?? if so How??  I also can't see the L on the 
screen with my R eye when looking normally at the screen, but if I tilt my 
head back some then I can.

Todd Porter
so92332@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu


From 73547.2772@compuserve.com  Wed May  5 12:12:36 1993
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 12:04:49 -0400
From: Peter Brooks <73547.2772@compuserve.com>
To: <rend386@SUNEE.WATERLOO.EDU>
Subject: obtaining LCD glasses
Message-Id: <930505160449_73547.2772_CHL40-2@CompuServe.COM>

> Does anyone have an address source on the Toshiba shutter glasses or
> Reel-3D.  I would very mush appreciate an address/phone to contact them by.
 
For LCD glasses (not necessarily Toshiba), try calling 3D-TV in Calif at
(415) 479-3516
 
Peter Brooks
MicroMind, Inc.
 
 



From 73547.2772@compuserve.com  Wed May  5 12:09:23 1993
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Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 12:04:46 -0400
From: Peter Brooks <73547.2772@compuserve.com>
To: <rend386@SUNEE.WATERLOO.EDU>
Subject: ghosting
Message-Id: <930505160446_73547.2772_CHL40-1@CompuServe.COM>

 
>     It seems that the shutters on the glasses are not darkening completely,
>resulting in 'residual imaging' to the left and right of the image being
>viewed.  I assume that others have experienced this as well, and I'm hoping
>that there's an inexpensive fix.
>
>     Any info would be appreciated.
 
Most of the ghosting that I perceive is related to the direction that the
light takes through the glasses.  The portion of the image that you see
when looking through the lenses perpendicularly should not present any
residuals.  But if you look through the lenses obliquely
(non-perpendicularly) you will see ghosting.  This has nothing to do with
timing of the LCD switching mismatching the timing of the display switch.
 
This is the same effect as look at your LCD watch non-perpendicularly and is
a property of LCD optics.
 
Try this experiment:
1. look at the image perpendicularly through the center of the LCD lens
(normal viewing practice): there should be no residuals
2. look at the image non-perpendicularly through the side of the LCD lens
(normal viewing practice): there should be residuals
3. shift the lens so that you look through the side of the LCD lens
perpendicularly (not normal viewing practice): there should be no residuals.
 
            |        |
eye  -----> | -----> |         (perpendicular viewing)
            |        |
           lens     display
 
 
 
eye       |        |
    \     |        |
      \   |        |        (non-perpendicular viewing)
        \ |        |
          |        |
          |  \     |
          |     \  |
         lens     display
 
The angle at which the light passes through the LCD is very important, and
that is why there appears to be ghosting near the edges of the lens.
 
Peter Brooks
MicroMind, Inc.
 
 



From WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com  Wed May  5 15:22:47 1993
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Date: Wed, 5 May 93 15:19:17 EDT
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@TAURUS.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: AITGW::"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Subject: PowerGlove source?
To: rend386@sunee

Hi all,
        I'm looking for another Powerglove for Rend386. I purchased my
original glove from Toys'R'Us, but they don't have anymore.  Does
anyone know where I can get another?

Thanks!

-Sean Wall

 (wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)



From ENGLERNET@delphi.com  Thu May  6 18:36:32 1993
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Date: 06 May 1993 18:35:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: ENGLERNET@delphi.com
Subject: powergloves too...
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GXV5BMOZ8Y8ZF4DF@delphi.com>
X-Vms-To: INTERNET"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hey 
	Im also on the hunt.  I bought a few from ToysRUs too but they are also
out of them.  I Knew I should have bought all the ones they had.  I have already 
gone through a few.  These refurbished ones aren't to hot.  Anyway If anyws Id also appreciate the help thanx.

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sat May  8 07:15:10 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sat, 8 May 1993 11:59:21 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <11321.9305081058@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: WTK user group meeting at Meckler (fwd)
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 8 May 93 11:58:51 BST
Cc: glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

[Forwarding this message since lots of people in the US
 have been discussing Meckler VR93 in San Jose....  
 BTW, WTK is WorldToolKit.                         --Chris]

terry@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy said:
> From doctor@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy Sat May  8 08:32:50 1993
> Original-Sender: Terry Fong <doctor@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy>
> Date: Sat, 8 May 93 0:30:22 PDT
> From: terry@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy
> Reply-To: Terry Fong <doctor@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy>
> To: sig-wtk@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy
> Subject: WTK user group meeting at Meckler
> Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.2.736846222.doctor@tardis.arc.nasa.gov>
> Sender: doctor@gov.nasa.arc.ptolemy
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> There will be a WTK user's group meeting during the upcoming Meckler VR
> conference in San Jose, California. The meeting will probably be on Thursday
> evening at the Meckler conference hotel. I will send the exact location and
> time as soon as it is confirmed. If you are interested in attending, please
> send a message to me at: terry@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov

Chris

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon May 10 21:08:04 1993
Received: from sun2.mhs-relay.ac.uk by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA02573>; Mon, 10 May 93 21:08:04 -0400
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Tue, 11 May 1993 01:54:49 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 01:54:06 BST
Message-Id: <3676.9305110054@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: glove-list@nas.nasa.gov
Subject: Quick hack for Menelli Box/REND386
Cc: rend386@sunee

Since I built my "Menelli Box" I've been wanting to use it with REND386.
This evening I just hacked around with the glove code and substituted code to
read glove data from the serial port.

==> This was just a quick hack to allow me to try out the new interface!

The changes made were all to sega/sgsppt.c, which is included below.
My setup uses the PG on COM2 -- if you want to use COM1 change the
definition of SERIAL_IF to 1.

Obviously the "proper" thing to do is to write a separate driver, but
I don't have time for that right now.  

Hope this is of use to someone!

Chris

--8x---CUT-HERE-FOR-NEW-SGSPPT.C---------------------------------
/* Sega support routines; written by Dave Stampe, July 1992 */

/* Copyright 1992 by Dave Stampe and Bernie Roehl.
   May be freely used to write software for release into the public domain;
   all commercial endeavours MUST contact Bernie Roehl and Dave Stampe
   for permission to incorporate any part of this software into their
   products!
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <dos.h>
#include <bios.h>
#include <signal.h>

#include "../include/segasupp.h"

/* MOD By Chris Hand cph@dmu.ac.uk 11-May-93 -- Quick Hack to allow use of
 * "Menelli Box" interface (or "Brain Box" in Menelli mode).  Interface
 * should be connected to a serial port.  Change the definition of
 * SERIAL_IF below to reflect the port number you're using.
 */

#define SERIAL_IF 2 /* Using the serial port for glove - # is COM port */

/************ INTERFACE SPECIFIC GLOVE STUFF ****************/

int port_image = 0;
int sega_port_image = 0;

#define INPORT   0x379       	/* i/o port addresses */
#define OUTPORT  0x378

/* bits from parallel port: */
#define GDATA    0x10    /* PG data in */
#define GLATCH   0x02    /* PG latch out */
#define GCLOCK   0x01    /* PG clock out */
#define GCLOLAT  0x03    /* clock + latch */

#define GMASK    0x03	 /* bits changable for glove access */

/************ GLOVE SPEED AND INTERFACE *****************/

#define FASTCOUNT 8       /* # of fast packet bytes */

#define D2BITS	  12	  /* BIT DELAY: microseconds */
#define D2BYTES	  140	  /* BYTE DELAY: microseconds */

#define MAXRESET  200	  /* failed reads before resetting glove */


/***** declarations for assembly code in glovedel.asm *****/

int glove_none_mask = 0;
int glove_latch_mask = GLATCH;
int glove_clock_mask = GCLOCK;
int glove_clock_latch = GCLOLAT;

int glove_in_port = INPORT;
int glove_out_port = OUTPORT;

int glove_data_mask = GDATA;
int glove_write_mask = GMASK;

int glove_bit_delay = D2BITS;

int glove_byte_delay = D2BYTES;

static int glove_892_delay = 892;
static int glove_2260_delay = 2260;
static int glove_7212_delay = 7212;
static int glove_10000_delay = 10000;

extern unsigned int timed_glove_delay(int count);
	/* returns time in 1.1925 MHZ ticks */
	/* to perform <count> delay steps   */
	/* call with timer at 18.2 Hz rate  */

extern int glove_delay(int count);  /* performs <count> delay steps   */

extern int get_glove_byte();  /* reads a byte from glove */

extern void set_glove_bits(int data);  /* sets glove clock, data lines */
                                       /* and does a bit delay         */

/********* defines for output line pair control *******/

#define C0L0() set_glove_bits(glove_none_mask)    /* clock 0 latch 0 */
#define C0L1() set_glove_bits(glove_latch_mask)   /* clock 0 latch 1 */
#define C1L0() set_glove_bits(glove_clock_mask)   /* clock 1 latch 0 */
#define C1L1() set_glove_bits(glove_clock_latch)  /* clock 1 latch 1 */

/************ status and read control **********/

static int glove_rx_try = 10; /* number of read tries: first will be rxflags */
static int glove_rx_flags = 0; /* holds flags (read 10 mS after packet */


/********************** HIRES MODE SETUP *****************/

/*  HIRES ENTRY CODES
	byte:
	1- any value between $05 and $31   (x,y res. divisor???)
	2- only $C1 and $81 work OK (C1)(81 does garbage)
	3- no effect    (08)
	4- no effect    (00)
	5- no effect    (02)
	6- only $FF works   (FF)
	7- seems to affect read rate slightly, 1 fastest (01)
 */

static int glove_ignore = 0; /* # of interrupts to ignore glove so it */
                             /* will recover from mode setup          */

static int hires_code[7] = { 0x05, 0xC1, 0x08, 0x00, 0x02, 0xFF, 0x01 };

static void Hires() /* enter HIRES mode */
{
	int i,j,k;
#ifdef SERIAL_IF
	return;
#endif

	/* dummy read 4 bits from glove:  */
	C1L0(); 
	C1L1(); /* generate a reset (latch) pulse */
	glove_delay(glove_bit_delay); /* delay for 6 us */
	C1L0();
	glove_delay(glove_bit_delay); /* delay for 6 us */

	C0L0(); 
	C1L0(); /* pulse clock */
	C0L0();
	C1L0(); /* pulse clock */
	C0L0(); 
	C1L0(); /* pulse clock */
	C0L0(); 
	C1L0(); /* pulse clock */

	/* force glove to listen for setup */
	C1L0();
	glove_delay(glove_7212_delay); /* 7212 us delay */
	C1L1();
	glove_delay(glove_2260_delay); /* 2260 us delay */

	for (i = 0; i < 7; i++) /* send 7 bytes of mode data */
	{
		k = hires_code[i];
		for (j = 0; j < 8; j++) /* 8 bits per byte, MSB first */
		{
			if (k & 0x80)
			{
				C1L1();
				C0L1();
				C1L1();
			}
			else
			{
				C1L0();
				C0L0();
				C1L0();
			}
			k <<= 1;
		}
		glove_delay(glove_byte_delay);
	}

	glove_delay(glove_892_delay); /* 892 us delay (end of setup data) */

	C1L0(); /* drop the reset line */
	glove_ignore = 10; /* some time for the glove controller to relax */
}


/**************** HYSTERISIS NOISE REMOVAL: x,y,z,rot *************/

#define XHYST 2		    /* hysterisis for X, Y low noise reduction */
#define YHYST 2		    /* 2 eliminates +/-3 quanta of noise */
#define ZHYST 1
#define RHYST 0

static int ox = -1000; /* last x,y for hysterisis */
static int oy = -1000;
static int oz = -1000;
static int or = -1000;

static void dehyst(glove_data *g) /* hysterisis deglitch (low noise removal) */
{
	int x = g->x;
	int y = g->y;
	int z = g->z;
	int r = g->rot;
	/* handle recentering ("0"key or "Center") */
	if (g->keys == 0) ox = oy = oz = 0;

	if (x-ox > XHYST) ox = x-XHYST; /* X hysterisis */
	else
		if (ox-x > XHYST) ox = x+XHYST;

	if (y-oy > YHYST) oy = y-YHYST; /* Y hysterisis */
	else
		if (oy-y > YHYST) oy = y+YHYST;

	if (z-oz > ZHYST) oz = z-ZHYST; /* Z hysterisis */
	else
		if (oz-z > ZHYST) oz = z+ZHYST;

	if (RHYST)
	{
		if (or < 3 && r > 8) /* CCW around-end */
			if (or > 0 || r < 11) or = r+RHYST; 
		else;
		else
			if (or > 8 && r < 3) /* CW around-end */
				if (or < 11 || r > 0) or = r-RHYST; 
		else;
			else
				if (r-or > RHYST) or = r-RHYST; /* R hysterisis */
				else
					if (or-r > RHYST) or = r+RHYST;

		if (or > 11) or -= 11;
		if (or < 0) or += 11;
	}
	else or = r;
	g->x = ox; /* replace present X,Y data */
	g->y = oy;
	g->z = oz;
	g->rot = or;
}

/****************** DEGLITCHING ***************/

#define XACC 8          /* X, Y maximum accel/decel level. Should */
#define YACC 8		/* be 6-10, but too high limits gesturing */

#define XXTEND 1	/* stretches deglitching time */
#define YXTEND 1
#define ROTTIME 1

static int x1 = 0; /* delayed 1 sample (for smoothed velocity test) */
static int y1 = 0;
static int x2 = 0; /* delayed 2 samples */
static int y2 = 0;
static int lx = 0; /* last good X,Y speed */
static int ly = 0;
static int lax = 0; /* bad data "stretch" counter */
static int lay = 0;
static int lsx = 0; /* X,Y "hold" values to replace bad data */
static int lsy = 0;
static int lcx = 0; /* last X,Y speed for accel. calc. */
static int lcy = 0;

static int saverot = 0;
static int lastrot = 0; /* last stable rotate */
static int chrot = 0; /* time its been stable */

static void deglitch(glove_data *g)
{
	int vx, vy;

	int x = g->x;
	int y = g->y;

	if (g->keys == 0) /* reset on recentering ("0" or "Center" key) */
	{
		x1 = x2 = y1 = y2 = 0;
		lx = ly = lax = lay = 0;
		lsx = lsy = lcx = lcy = 0;
		lastrot = chrot = saverot = 0;
	}

	if (lastrot != g->rot)
	{
		chrot = 0;
		lastrot = g->rot;
		g->rot = saverot;
	}
	else
		{
		if (chrot < ROTTIME)
		{
			chrot++;
			g->rot = saverot;
		}
		else saverot = lastrot = g->rot;
	}

	vx = x-((x1+x2) >> 1); /* smoothed velocity */
	vy = y-((y1+y2) >> 1);

	x2 = x1; /* update last values */
	x1 = g->x;

	y2 = y1;
	y1 = g->y;

	if (abs(lcx-vx) > XACC) lax = XXTEND; /* check for extreme acceleration */
	if (lax == 0) lx = vx; /* save only good velocity        */
	lcx = vx; /* save velocity for next accel.  */

	if (abs(lcy-vy) > YACC) lay = YXTEND; /* same deal for Y accel. */
	if (lay == 0) ly = vy;
	lcy = vy;

	if (lax != 0) /* hold X pos'n if glitch */
	{
		g->x = lsx;
		lax--;
	}

	if (lay != 0) /* hold Y pos'n if glitch */
	{
		g->y = lsy;
		lay--;
	}

	lsx = g->x; /* save position for X,Y hold */
	lsy = g->y;
}

/**************** COMPUTE COUNTS FOR TIME CALIBRATION ***********/

static float factor;

static int uconvert(int t)
{
	float f;
	f = factor*((float)t);
	if (f < 1.0) return 1;
	if (f > 60000.0) return 60000;
	return f;
}


static void calibrate()
{
	factor = 11900.0/((float) timed_glove_delay(10000));

	glove_bit_delay = uconvert(glove_bit_delay);
	glove_byte_delay = uconvert(glove_byte_delay);
	glove_892_delay = uconvert(glove_892_delay);
	glove_2260_delay = uconvert(glove_2260_delay);
	glove_7212_delay = uconvert(glove_7212_delay);
	glove_10000_delay = uconvert(glove_10000_delay);
}

/******************* gesture recognition **************/

#define G_FLAT      0
#define G_THUMB_IN  1
#define G_INDEX_IN  2
#define G_MIDDLE_IN 3
#define G_RING_IN   4
#define G_PINCH     5
#define G_FIST      6
#define G_THUMB_OUT 7
#define G_POINT     8
#define G_BADFINGER 9
#define G_RING_OUT 10
#define G_UNKNOWN  11      /* gesture classification */

long gesture_time = 0;
unsigned char gesture_type = G_UNKNOWN;
static unsigned char last_gesture = G_UNKNOWN;

/* more reliable mapped gestures */

static unsigned char gesture_map[12] = { 
	G_FLAT, G_FLAT, G_PINCH, G_MIDDLE_IN,
	G_RING_IN, G_PINCH, G_FIST, G_FIST, G_POINT,
	G_BADFINGER, G_FIST, G_UNKNOWN };

/* unmapped gestures */
/*
char gesture_map[12] = { G_FLAT, G_THUMB_IN, G_INDEX_IN, G_MIDDLE_IN,
                         G_RING_IN, G_PINCH, G_FIST, G_THUMB_OUT,
                         G_POINT, G_BADFINGER, G_RING_OUT, G_UNKNOWN };
*/

static int g_lookup[256]; /* compiled lookup table for gestures */

static char gs[11][8] = { 
	0,1, 0,0, 0,0, 0,0,
	2,3, 0,0, 0,0, 0,1,
	/* data is: for each gesture   */ 0,1, 2,3, 0,1, 0,1,
	/* and for each finger, a max. */ 0,3, 0,1, 2,3, 0,1,
	/* and min. bend value         */ 0,3, 0,1, 0,1, 2,3,
	1,3, 2,3, 0,1, 0,1,
	2,3, 2,3, 2,3, 1,3,
	0,1, 2,3, 2,3, 1,3,
	0,3, 0,1, 2,3, 1,3,
	0,3, 2,3, 0,1, 1,3,
	0,3, 2,3, 2,3, 0,1 };

static void init_gestures()
{
	int g,t,i,m,r,x;

	for(g = 0; g < 256; g++) g_lookup[g] = G_UNKNOWN;

	for(g = 11; g; )
	{
		g--;
		for(t = 0; t < 4; t++)
			for(i = 0; i < 4; i++)
				for(m = 0; m < 4; m++)
					for(r = 0; r < 4; r++)
					{
						x = (t<<6)+(i<<4)+(m<<2)+r;
						if (gs[g][0] <= t && gs[g][1] >= t)
							if (gs[g][2] <= i && gs[g][3] >= i)
								if (gs[g][4] <= m && gs[g][5] >= m)
									if (gs[g][6] <= r && gs[g][7] >= r)
										g_lookup[x] = g;
					}
	}
}

static void gesture_process(glove_data *g)
{
	gesture_time++;
	gesture_type = g_lookup[((int)g->fingers) & 255];
	gesture_type = gesture_map[gesture_type];
	if (gesture_type != last_gesture) gesture_time = 0;
	last_gesture = gesture_type;
}


/******************* READ GLOVE DATA PACKET *************/

void getglove(glove_data *buf) /* read 6 byte data packet */
{
	register unsigned char *bp = (char *) buf;
	register int i;

#ifdef SERIAL_IF
	union REGS	inregs, outregs;

	*bp = '\0';

	while (*bp != (unsigned char)'\xA0')
	{	/* Keep reading until get header byte */
        	inregs.x.dx = SERIAL_IF - 1;
	        inregs.h.ah = '\x02';
        	int86(0x14, &inregs, &outregs);
	        *bp = (char) outregs.h.al;
    	}


	for (i = 1; i < 6; i++)
	{
        	inregs.x.dx = SERIAL_IF - 1;
	        inregs.h.ah = '\x02';
        	int86(0x14, &inregs, &outregs);
	        *bp++ = (char) outregs.h.al;

        	if ((outregs.h.ah & 0x0C) != '\x00')
		/* ERROR READING SERIAL PORT! Do nothing for now */
			/*** NOP NOP NOPPITY-NOP ***/ ;
	}	


#else
	for (i = 0; i < FASTCOUNT; ++i)
	{
		*bp++ = get_glove_byte(); /* read data */
		glove_delay(glove_byte_delay);
	}
#endif
	glove_rx_try = 0;
	buf->rxflags = 0x3f; /* default all rx fired, but will be read in */
}   /* 8-10 mS when glove_ready returns 2        */
    /* also stored in glove_rx_flags 	     */

/*************** GLOVE INTERRUPT HANDLER **************/

static glove_data glove_int_data; /* our copy of the most recent data */

static unsigned unready = 0; /* number of times glove has been not ready */
static int glove_deglitch; /* switches deglitching on and off */

void glove_int_handler()
{
	int n;

	if (glove_ignore) /* wait out setup time if required */
	{
		glove_ignore--;
		return;
	}

	glove_rx_try++;

	if ((n = get_glove_byte()) != 0xA0)
	{
		if (glove_rx_try == 1) glove_rx_flags = glove_int_data.rxflags = n;
		if (++unready > MAXRESET)
		{ /* glove not responding... reset it */
			unready = 0;
			Hires();
		}
	}
	else
		{ /* data ready! */
		glove_delay(glove_byte_delay);
		unready = 0;
		getglove(&glove_int_data);
		if (glove_deglitch)
			deglitch(&glove_int_data); /* remove spikes and jumps */
		dehyst(&glove_int_data); /* add hysteresis to remove LL noise */
		gesture_process(&glove_int_data);
		++glove_int_data.nmissed; /* flag data as new */
	}
}

/******************* GLOVE INITIALIZATION ***************/

#define TIMER_CONTROL 0x43	/* timer control register */
#define TIMER_0       0x40	/* timer zero data register */
#define TIMER_MODE    0x36	/* byte to write to control register */

#ifdef SERIAL_IF

/* code to open serial port -- borrowed from Ron Menelli's pgread.c */
void open_serial(int com_port)
{
    union REGS  inregs, outregs;

    /*
	 * Open serial device
	 * 9600 baud, 8 data bits, no parity, 1 stop bit
	 */
	inregs.h.ah = (unsigned char) 0;
	inregs.h.al = (unsigned char) 0xE3;
	inregs.x.dx = com_port;
	int86(0x14, &inregs, &outregs);

	return;
}

#endif

void glove_init(int gdeg) /* gdeg switches deglitching */
{
#ifdef SERIAL_IF
	/* Init serial port (doesn't need closing later) */
	open_serial(SERIAL_IF); 
#else
	outportb(TIMER_CONTROL, TIMER_MODE); /* reprogram timer to mod 65536 */
	outportb(TIMER_0, 0); /* so calibration is correct    */
	outportb(TIMER_0, 0);
#endif
	glove_deglitch = gdeg;

#ifndef SERIAL_IF
	calibrate(); /* compute timing counts */
	Hires(); /* enter hires mode */
#endif
	init_gestures();
	glove_int_data.nmissed = 0; /* mark no new data yet */
}

/************** EXTERNAL DATA INTERFACE **************/

int glove_read(glove_data *glov) /* return copy of data packet */
{
#ifdef SERIAL_IF
	getglove(&glove_int_data);  /* explicit read since not interrupt-based */
	dehyst(&glove_int_data);
	gesture_process(&glove_int_data);
	*glov = glove_int_data;
#else
	disable();
	*glov = glove_int_data;
	glove_int_data.nmissed = 0;
	enable();
#endif
	return glov->nmissed;
}

                   /* data status:                   */
int glove_ready()  /* returns 0 if no new data,      */
{                  /*         1 if new data ready,   */
	int lgin, lgrt; /*         2 if rxflags valid too */

#ifdef SERIAL_IF
	/* assume always ready */
#else
	disable();
	lgin = glove_int_data.nmissed;
	lgrt = glove_rx_try;
	enable();

	if (lgin == 0) return 0;
	if (lgrt > 0) return 2;
#endif

	return 1;
}



/****************** SWITCHER DRIVER INTERFACE *************/


#define SW_INIT        0
#define SW_QUIT        1
#define SW_ADV_SWITCH  2
#define SW_SYNC_SWITCH 3

static int (*switch_driver)() = NULL;

static void sdriver_quit()
{
	if (switch_driver) switch_driver(SW_QUIT);
}

extern void *load_driver();

void init_switch_driver(char *sdname)
{
	if (!stricmp(sdname, "sega"))
	{
		atexit(sega_off);
		return;
	}

	switch_driver = load_driver(sdname);

	if (switch_driver == NULL)
	{
		fprintf(stderr,"Cannot read switcher driver %s\n", sdname);
		exit(0);
	}

	switch_driver = MK_FP(FP_SEG(switch_driver), 16+FP_OFF(switch_driver)); /* entry point */
	switch_driver(SW_INIT);
	atexit(sdriver_quit);
}


/********************* SEGA GLASSES CONTROL *****************/

int left_page = 0; /* left image */
int right_page = 1; /* right image */
int has_switched; /* = 3 once both switched in */

static int adv_has_switched = 0;

#define SEGA_LEFT  0x30
#define SEGA_RIGHT 0x20
#define SEGA_OFF   0x00

#define SEGA_MASK  0x30   	/* bits writeable for Sega */

#define COMPORT 0x3fc   	/* com1 = 0x3fc, com2 = 0x2fc */

int sega_left = SEGA_LEFT;
int sega_right = SEGA_RIGHT;
int sega_address = COMPORT;
int sega_mask = SEGA_MASK;
int sega_doff = SEGA_OFF;

static int phase = 1; /* current image */

void select_sega_port(int port)
{
	sega_address = port;
}

static void sega_write(int data)  /* write Sega data w/o disturbance */
{                          /* can also handle glove, Sega on same port */
	disable();
	if (sega_address == glove_out_port)
		sega_port_image = port_image =
			(port_image & (~sega_mask)) | (data & sega_mask);
	else
		sega_port_image = (sega_port_image & (~sega_mask)) | (data & sega_mask);
	outportb(sega_address, sega_port_image);
	enable();
}

void switch_sega(int to_go)  /* now gets arg, sync at 0, 1 = advanced signal */
{                            /* 2-step switching ensures adr. load of VGA    */
	if (switch_driver)
	{
		if (to_go == 1)
		{
			if (phase == sega_left)
			{
				phase = sega_right;
				if (switch_driver(SW_ADV_SWITCH, 0) )
					set_vpage(right_page);
				adv_has_switched = 1;
			}
			else
				{
				phase = sega_left;
				if (switch_driver(SW_ADV_SWITCH, 1) )
					set_vpage(left_page);
				adv_has_switched = 2;
			}
		}
		if (to_go == 0)
		{
			switch_driver(SW_SYNC_SWITCH, (phase == sega_left) ? 1 : 0);
			has_switched |= adv_has_switched;
			adv_has_switched = 0;
		}
	}
	else
		{
		if (to_go == 1)
		{
			if (phase == sega_left)
			{
				phase = sega_right;
				set_vpage(right_page);
				adv_has_switched = 1;
			}
			else
				{
				phase = sega_left;
				set_vpage(left_page);
				adv_has_switched = 2;
			}
		}
		if (to_go == 0)
		{
			sega_write(phase);
			has_switched |= adv_has_switched;
			adv_has_switched = 0;
		}
	}
}


void sega_off()
{
	sega_write(sega_doff); /* turn glasses driver off to save lcds! */
}

--8x---END-------------------------------------------------------

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue May 11 12:57:30 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Tue, 11 May 1993 16:37:14 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 May 93 16:36:38 BST
Message-Id: <17587.9305111536@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: glove-list@nas.nasa.gov
Subject: oops -- Menelli Box hack
Cc: rend386@sunee

I forgot to say that before using the hacked version
of REND386 (modified sega/sgsppt.c) that I posted last night,
you'll have to set up the serial port:

	mode COM2:9600,n,8,1

should do the trick.

Chris

From coop3d34@bnr.ca  Wed May 12 12:17:29 1993
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From: "Roy (R.L.) Draughn" <coop3d34@bnr.ca>
Sender: "Roy (R.L.) Draughn" <coop3d34@bnr.ca>
Message-Id:  <"1006 Wed May 12 12:16:49 1993"@bnr.ca> 
To: rend386@sunee
Subject:  2 Gloves 1 PC 

Hi all,

I was wondering if any knew the location fo the code that supports two 
power gloves on one PC. I read the letter that metioned the driver, but it 
did not metion where to get it. I would appreciate any information.


					Regards,
						Roy Draughn
						coop3d34@BNR.ca

From jonbl@microsoft.com  Wed May 12 21:18:53 1993
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From: Jon Blossom <jonbl@microsoft.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Wed, 12 May 93 17:56:18 PDT
Subject: Introducing Gossamer...

I'm happy to announce the imminent release of Gossamer 1.0, a public domain
polygon-based 3D rendering engine for Macintosh. If you're interested, please
read on! You can send questions, comments, etc. to me: jonbl@microsoft.com.

Gossamer 1.0 is a general-purpose package for managing, manipulating, and
rendering three-dimensional scenes on the Macintosh. It has been designed and
with the intention to release it to the public domain to encourage the 
production
of homebrew VR systems, animation systems, and simple related applications.

Before I go into details, let me just say that Gossamer will not be 
available for
a few more weeks - I'm predicting some time in early June since I still have
some cleaning up to do.

Gossamer 1.0 will be provided as a library in Symantec THINK C 5.0 format with
header files, fairly extensive documentation, and a demonstration program
with source code that displays some of Gossamer's capabilities.

The package itself is a first-generation version that includes many but 
not all of
the features that I have planned. I will be extending the feature set 
as soon as
possible and releasing version 2.0, but I wanted to get *something* out to
interested parties so that the state of homebrew Mac VR work would not remain
as stagnant as it is now. Please forgive me the shortcomings and consider
this a step towards a more complete implementation. My soapbox: "It'll
only get faster and more robust."

The first generation of this library has been compiled for 68020 machines
with 68881 coprocessors. Apologies to those excluded by these restrictions--
I'll be switching to integer-based fixed-point math in the next 
version, but the
'020 restriction will remain. These are the only hardware requirements:
Gossamer is designed to be independent of monitor size or pixel depth and
requires only a CGrafPort to make it go. The included demonstration will
handle shading and pseudo-transparency on monitors from 1 to 8-bits per
pixel.

Although Gossamer is NOT a strict port of Rend386, the nature of the
project and the example of Rend386 make for many similarities between
the two systems and should enable porting Rend386 programs. The demo
files will contain procedures for reading Rend386 PLG files and, possibly,
FIG and WLD files as well.

Support for the PowerGlove and Sega glasses will have to come in future
revisions or from the application author. I haven't connected a pair of glasses
(and doubt that Gossamer could handle stereo rendering just now), and my
"ancient" 68HC11 EVBU pseudo-Menelli board is far from a standard in
Power Glove connectivity.

Also, a standard disclaimer: I have written Gossamer to work on my
personal development machine, a Mac IIci with a standard 13" Apple
monitor. I can not guarantee that the code will work without hitches on any
other machines. Actually, that's part of my reasoning for releasing this
library in its current state: I can't test this thing all by myself. I NEED BUG
REPORTS!

Gossamer is copyright (c) 1993 by Jon Blossom. This software may be used to
write applications for release into the public domain, but permission 
to use this
software for commercial ventures, including shareware, must be licensed from
the author.

If you have any questions, problems, ideas, or code relating to 
Gossamer, please
contact me at jonbl@microsoft.com. Gossamer is NOT a Microsoft product, nor is
it even remotely endorsed by my  employers. It is strictly a labor of 
love and the
exclusive property and responsibility of the author. Sorry, I had to 
throw that in
just in case.

From 70233.1552@compuserve.com  Mon May 17 03:12:35 1993
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	id AA14516; Mon, 17 May 93 03:12:20 -0400
Date: 17 May 93 03:06:15 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: GloveList <glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>, TrackerList <trackers@qucis.queensu.ca>
Subject: VRASP: Object Glove released!
Message-Id: <930517070615_70233.1552_CHV25-3@CompuServe.COM>

                     Press Release

The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals (VRASP)
announces a new set of programming tools and programs to access Mattel
Power Gloves on IBM PC compatible computers.  Object Glove is a library
that can be used by Borland C++ 3.1 programmers to add Power
Glove(TM) support to practically any existing application, including
applications for MS-DOS and Windows 3.1.  An exciting new feature of
Object Glove is the Court Jesture recognition system, which allows people
to control a computer by making hand signals or "gestures".  Object Glove
supports the use of two Power Gloves(TM) simultaneously, and different
gestures can be assigned to each hand.  Since the gestures actually trigger
software events, programmers are free to interpret gestures in any way.

Several applications have been developed to take advantage of Object
Glove and Court Jesture.  There are MS-DOS and Windows programs that
display a representation of a hand on the screen and print out the names of
gestures as they are received by the system.  Gestures can be added or
modified simply by changing a plain text input file - this does not require a
programmer.  In the Windows version, gestures can easily be made to
trigger multimedia sounds, providing auditory feedback.  There is also a
program to control the Windows "cursor" permitting the user to use the
glove as a pointing device.  Any gesture can be used to represent mouse
clicks.  Finally, Object Glove and Court Jesture have been combined with
REND386,  which allows people to navigate and manipulate a 3D virtual
world.  The program has been enhanced to support two independent
gloves, and to have gestures that control the viewpoint position in the
virtual world.  REND386, originally written by Dave Stampe and Bernie
Roehl, also includes the capability to generate stereoscopic views
compatible with Sega 3D glasses or the Toshiba 3 Dimension Scope.

VRASP will be exhibiting two custom Object Glove applications at the
Virtual Reality '93 conference in San Jose, California, May 19-21.  The
first has been dubbed the "Literary Gallery" - it is a multimedia application
with full-motion video and sound controlled with a Power Glove(TM).
The media links contain references to fundamental Virtual Reality ideas as
presented by famous authors through the centuries.  The other project uses
an exercise machine to immerse a person in a virtual world.  By stepping
forward on the exercise machine, the participant moves forward in a
REND386-generated world that is displayed in front of him or her.  They
can pick up and move objects when wearing a  Power Glove, and they can
change their direction of motion by moving their head.

Object Glove libraries, source code, and demo disks can be purchased at
very low cost through VRASP.  The programming libraries and source
code packages include more than sixty pages of printed documentation.
The demo disks, offered for $2 to cover media and duplication costs,
include many working programs, but do not allow programmers to use the
glove in their own applications or to modify the existing applications
significantly.  In addition, VRASP offers Power Gloves(TM) and PC-to-
Glove connectors.  One- or two- glove  connectors are available to simplify
glove installation.  The demonstration programs can also be obtained by
anonymous ftp in the internet:
Host name: sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Directory: /pub/glove
File name:  objglv.exe
The CompuServe forum GRAPHDEV stores the files O2GLOV.ZIP,
OBJGLV.ZIP, DEMO4B.ZIP, and WINGLV.ZIP in the VR Tech section.
OBJGLV.ZIP is the most complete demo, and the others are subsets to
reduce download time.

VRASP is proud to bring this news to you first and provide you with the
means to put together a low-cost PC Virtual Reality system.



From cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu  Mon May 17 06:17:01 1993
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	id <AA10023>; Mon, 17 May 93 06:17:01 -0400
Message-Id: <9305171017.AA10023@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: reminder
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 10:34:07 -0500 (EDT)
From: Chris W. Morris <cwm@hopper.acs.virginia.edu>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
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To all interested:

 You are invited to join us in a REND386/VR related chat on IRC.
The more people the better. This is an informal chat, so even if you don't
have a lot of technical knowledge your ideas are welcome. Hopefully, the authors
of Rend386 will attend, as they did for our last session. Our sessions may
also be logged and kept on sunee.uwaterloo.ca, but this has not been 
finalized. Please bring your ideas and questions and perhaps we can benefit
from our collective synergy. Scheduled for Sunday, May 16, 1:00 PM EST.
Please join us on the #Rend386 channel.
 
Thanks for your time,
Chris W. Morris
cwm@Hopper.acs.Virginia.Edu
-- 


From coop3d34@bnr.ca  Fri May 21 08:51:58 1993
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X400-Content-Type:  P2-1984 (2) 
Content-Identifier:  2 Gloves on O... 
From: "Roy (R.L.) Draughn" <coop3d34@bnr.ca>
Sender: "Roy (R.L.) Draughn" <coop3d34@bnr.ca>
Message-Id:  <"339 Fri May 21 08:51:18 1993"@bnr.ca> 
To: rend386@sunee
Subject:  2 Gloves on One PC 

Hi all,

I was just wondering if any one knew the location of the software that allowes 
you to put two power glives onto one PC. I woul appreciate any information 
concerning this. 

Also, I am writing this letter to see if the rend386 list is still working.
I haven't received any mail from the lists in over two or three weeks. If the
list is still functional, have i been dropped from the list? I know my email 
still works, because I am still getting mail from the glove-list. If I have
been dropped from the list, please add me back to the list.

					Thsnk You!!
					Regards,
					   Roy Draughn
					   coop3d34@BNR.ca

From 70233.1552@compuserve.com  Tue May 25 01:38:17 1993
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	id AA05317; Tue, 25 May 93 01:38:11 -0400
Date: 25 May 93 01:32:55 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: GloveList <glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov>
Cc: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>
Subject: VRASP: RE: 2 Gloves on One PC & Object Glove
Message-Id: <930525053255_70233.1552_CHV42-10@CompuServe.COM>

Roy Draughn wrote, "I was just wondering if any one knew the location of 
the software that allowes you to put two power glives onto one PC. I woul 
appreciate any information concerning this. "

Anonymous ftp:

Host name: sunee.uwaterloo.ca Directory: /pub/glove File name:  objglv.exe

The CompuServe forum GRAPHDEV stores the files O2GLOV.ZIP, OBJGLV.ZIP, 
DEMO4B.ZIP, and WINGLV.ZIP in the VR Tech section.  OBJGLV.ZIP is the most 
complete demo, and the others are subsets to reduce download time.

The following points need to be stressed!!!!

1) Always use FTP in BINARY (NOT ASCII) mode when trasferring archive like 
objglv.exe.  2) You get the best transfer rate from sunee late at night.  
3) Always unzip using the '-d" option of pkunzip!!  If you have gotten 
objglv.exe, simply type "C:\VR> objglv -d" If you got a file from 
compuserve, make sure you are using PKUNZIP 2.04g!!! NOT 1.10 which is what 
most people have.  4) These files do not have full source code, in order to 
use Object Glove in your own development you need to order the Libraries or 
Source Code from VRASP.  See the file "PRODUCTS.TXT" enclosed in the 
archive.  5) If you don't have ftp or you are an internet novice you can 
order a disk with a nice little install program from VRASP for just $2 + 
s/h.  Reply to this message for more info.

It was nice seeing everybody at Meckler.  Like, I had a good time.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________


From rcc@zycor.lgc.com  Wed May 26 01:02:10 1993
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From: rcc@zycor.lgc.com
Message-Id: <9305260501.AA12046@iroc.zycor.lgc.com>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: texture mapping?


Hiyas,

   Quick question:  what's the current status of texture mapping within
rend386?  The last time I played with it, texture mapping was an unimplemented
feature...

   Thanks for any info,
     Randy

From u3110brf@elm.circa.ufl.edu  Wed May 26 05:55:47 1993
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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 05:55:24 -0400
From: u3110brf@elm.circa.ufl.edu (Daniel D. Roscigno)
Message-Id: <9305260955.AA17484@elm.circa.ufl.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: fresnel glasses

Where can I get a pair of fresnel glasses?

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed May 26 07:02:10 1993
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	id <AA12042>; Wed, 26 May 93 07:02:10 -0400
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Wed, 26 May 1993 12:01:57 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <10164.9305261101@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Who is this 3DTV company...
To: glove-list@nas.nasa.gov
Date: Wed, 26 May 93 12:01:10 BST
Cc: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <01GYKLS6RKHU8Y51RH@pimacc.pima.edu>; from "WAS WATCHING HIGHLANDER, NERK..." at May 25, 93 11:37 am
X-Useless-Headers: Yes
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Holo (or somebody) said:
> How do I get a copy of 3dtv's catalog? How do I get ahold of 3dtv? I'd be 
> interested in seeing what they have...

3DTV Corp., 
PO Box Q
San Rafael, CA  94913-4316
USA

Tel. (415) 479-3516
Fax. (415) 479-3316

Ask for the "Professional Products" brochure.  It's written a bit like
a paper (with one or two possibly-useful references), and they list some
interesting-looking stuff but I suspect some of it is vapourware.

They list PowerGloves for US$100, which seems a bit much to me.

The outfit seems to be run by Michael Starks, and from some of the
things he's saying it sounds like he's been gathering information from
the net.  Are you out there Michael?

Note that 3DTV Corp are not to be confused with Reel-3D, who also sell
3-D wares but cater mainly for the photographic end of the market.


Chris
cph@dmu.ac.uk

ps: As well as listing "PGSI" as a trademark they sell some interface
    called "PCVR" which they also have down as a trademark... I sense
    some friction up ahead.

From dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca  Fri May 28 09:45:42 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 09:46:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Beardwood <dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: unsubscribe
To: Virtual Reality News Group <rend386@sunee>
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.9305280907.B17518@mcmail>

Hi,
	Could I unsubscribe from this newsgroup, please?  

Thank you

David Beardwood

From dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca  Fri May 28 09:46:42 1993
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Date: Fri, 28 May 1993 09:46:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Beardwood <dbeardwo@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: unsubscribe
To: Virtual Reality News Group <rend386@sunee>
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.9305280907.B17518@mcmail>

Hi,
	Could I unsubscribe from this newsgroup, please?  

Thank you

David Beardwood

From Tom.Ranheim@itk.unit.no  Thu Jun  3 11:37:42 1993
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Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1993 17:36:55 +0200
From: Tom Ranheim <Tom.Ranheim@itk.unit.no>
Message-Id: <9306031536.AA20067@sindre>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: 3D LCD glasses


Hello!

I am going to work on a research project that will involve Virtual
Environments (rend386). In order to do this I need information on where 
to get 3D glasses (the 3D LCD shutter glasses which were used at the 
Toronto Science Center in April). Can you help me with addresses to 
companies that sell 3D LCD glasses (and gloves)?

Best regards,
Tom
---------------------------------------------------------------
Address: Tom K. Ranheim, Bugges veg 5, N-7016 TRONDHEIM, NORWAY
E-mail : tomra@itk.unit.no

           Department of Engineering Cybernetics
             Norwegian Institute of Technology
---------------------------------------------------------------

From mvalente@draco.lnec.pt  Wed Jun  9 07:48:38 1993
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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 13:46:20 GMT
From: mvalente@draco.lnec.pt
Message-Id: <9306091346.AA25057@draco.lnec.pt>
To: Tom.Ranheim@itk.unit.no, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  3D LCD glasses


 
 
   I'm sorry but I didnt buy my glasses and gloves
 from any company. I contacted people on the net who had them
 and sold them to me by mail.
 
 
  C U!
 
  By(e)
 
    Mario Valente


From wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com  Fri Jun 11 12:55:46 1993
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From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: "rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Object oriented Rend386?

Hi all,

        Any news on a new version of Rend386?  Specifically, bug fixes
or cleaning up the libraries?  I realize Dave and Bernie are probably busy,
but I figured I'd at least ask!


-Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com  Sat Jun 12 17:31:36 1993
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 17:29:54 EDT
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: "rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: DOS extender?

Hi all,

        This is a bit off the subject, but does anyone know of a decent
public domain or shareware DOS extender?  I'm interested in trying my hand
at protected mode programming.  Thanks!

-Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From broehl  Mon Jun 14 09:28:44 1993
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	id <AA08965>; Mon, 14 Jun 93 09:28:44 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306141328.AA08965@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New world for rend386
To: rend386
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 9:28:43 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Todd Porter has built a "dactyl nightmare" type world; it's available on
sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386/plgfiles directory (the filename
is dactyl.zip).

Remember to transfer files in binary mode, and that the you'll get much
better throughput when transferring files from sunee if you do it during
off-peak hours.

From b41237@anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov  Mon Jun 14 11:02:49 1993
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From: b41237@anlsun.ebr.anlw.anl.gov (Pete Angelo)
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To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe to mailings

unsusbscribe b41237@anl.gov

From jack@genome1.bio.bnl.gov  Mon Jun 14 14:11:02 1993
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From: jack@genome1.bio.bnl.gov (John J. McNulty)
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Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe jack@genome1.bio.bnl.gov

From MARSHALC@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu  Mon Jun 14 16:55:21 1993
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From: Maxxima Thule <MARSHALC@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Subject: REMOVE
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Please unsubscribe MARSHALC@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU


From 70401.30@CompuServe.COM  Mon Jun 14 21:38:41 1993
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To: <rend386@sunee>
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
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SUBSCRIBE


From gj9362@shelob.sbc.com  Tue Jun 15 08:55:47 1993
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From: gj9362@shelob.sbc.com (Gregg Jensen)
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe gj9362@smaug.sbc.com


From joshuas@aol.com  Wed Jun 16 11:25:49 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: A little inconvenience
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 11:26:59 EDT
Message-Id: <9306161126.tn50233@aol.com>

Sorry to bother everybody with this, but I check my mail often.  Whenever I
find that I have several letters from the mailing list saying "Unsubscribe
me" I feel that I should do the same.  Fortunately, I won't - Render 386 is
better than even SuperScape, a $3000-$5000 program.  I would just like to
tell everyone that it would be easier on all of us if people would send their
unsubscription notices to "rend386-request@sunnee.uwaterloo.ca" as this mail
isn't distributed, unlike "rend386@sun..." which is distributed almost
immediately.  I pay for my time reading mail on America OnLine, and it does
take several annoying seconds to get the words "unsubscribe ..." and a lot of
message headers at 2400 baud while under a Graphical User Interface.

I hope that people are actually reading this.

                                             -Joshua Shagam

From kashnow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU  Thu Jun 17 01:58:05 1993
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 23:57:57 -0600
From: KASHNOW  JEREMY DAVID <kashnow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Message-Id: <199306170557.AA04879@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: lcd glasses

Does anyone know where to get a decent pair of LCD glasses at a reasonable
price?  I have 3ddtv's catalog but I think their prices are a little bit on
the high side.  I was hoping for something in the $75-$100 range.  Thanks
 - Jeremy Kashnow
kashnow@ucsu.colorado.edu
(303)444-6546

From joshuas@aol.com  Thu Jun 17 21:40:45 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Misnomer in previous message
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 21:41:59 EDT
Message-Id: <9306172141.tn59744@aol.com>

Actually, a friend of mine recently got a SuperScape brochure, and it's $5000
- British.  (This means over $8500 American!)  This means that Render386 is
an even better value!
                                    -Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@aol.com  Thu Jun 17 21:53:59 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: PGlove, Shutter Glasses, HMD...
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 21:56:13 EDT
Message-Id: <9306172156.tn59935@aol.com>

I have been looking for the following components at a reasonable cost:

           o Power Glove (preferably for NES)
           o Shutter Glasses (preferably for Sega)
           o HMD (or components, preferably std. RGB connector, or able to
accept both RGB and NTSC signals)
           o Head-tracking device (and a Render386-compatible driver)
           o REND386 development kit
           o An ANSI C compiler

I have been looking for the first two items for some time.  When I found out
that Render 386 now supports head-tracking gear, I added the next two to my
list.  And, I need the source code and an inexpensive (or Shareware) compiler
to make my own VR environments.

If I haven't said this enough, Render 386 is the best deal on the market.  It
supports more equipment than SuperScape (which requires "only" a 486DX2-66
with a TIGA-based graphic card), costs about $8500 less, and is
user-supported.  Do you think the REND386 development team will come up the
the following items soon:

        o Interactive object-creation program
        o Texture-mapping (i.e. color patterns besides glass and metal)
        o A texture-map editor
        o Multi-color metallic maps (like in UltraForce, the overrated
development kit which costs more and has less)
        o Spheroid objects (Not like the kind in UForce.  It is possible to
make the balls actually shrink with distance)
        o CSG with primitives
        o etc., etc

BTW, I have found a problem with the joystick interface with the v4 demo -
the "strafe" (sorry for bringing in a Wolfenstein 3D term) works backwards
(i.e. strafe right moves person left, vice versa), and the tilt (look up and
down) works like an airplane.  The airplane I don't mind, (I play a lot of
flight simulators) but it was a bit of a surprise and took a while to get
used to.  Also, even though I obviously love to slander VRS and SuperScape, a
keyboard mode which feels like VRS would be nice.  (You know, move for/back
with O/K, etc.)

A note to the development team - Great work guys, keep it up!

                       -Joshua Shagam

Now if only I could find those components...

From joshuas@aol.com  Thu Jun 17 21:57:55 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: lcd glasses (kashnow@ucsu.c)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 22:00:07 EDT
Message-Id: <9306172200.tn59983@aol.com>

Who's 3D DTV?  I would like their catalog.  (BTW, you can find Sega shutter
glasses for around $30 if you can find them. And they work pretty well, too!)
 A note to Kashnow himself - LCD glasses is a misnomer.  LCD means "liquid
crystal display," and is meant to refer to calculator displays, notebook
displays, 7-segment displays, etc.  LC alone is the correct way to refer to
them.  Of course, it's easier to understand by saying "shutter glasses."
                                   -Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@aol.com  Thu Jun 17 22:11:04 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Replies
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 22:14:21 EDT
Message-Id: <9306172214.tn60155@aol.com>

People often wonder why they never see the replies sent by others in response
to another person's correspondence.  The reason is simple - people are using
the "Reply" command.  Because of the way the distribution net works, the
"Reply" command will send the mail directly to the origin of the original
message, skipping the distribution.  This is because when you send it to
REND386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, the recipient immediately spreads the mail across
the net as if it were sent by hand to everybody from the origin.  (Those
message headers come in handy some times.)  If anybody in charge of the net
reads this, please send me a reply (by mailing to the distribution, not using
"reply").  I suspect that this mail address is only a news group.  An
advantage of doing this is so that everybody can see the source of the letter
in case they didn't include their address in the letter itself.  In fact,
when you read your list of letters, it (hopefully) doesn't say
REND386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, but the source of the original letter.  Of
course, a way to fix this would be by having the news server append "From
xxxx@xxxx.xxx..." at the beginning of the message, and we won't wonder why a
complete stranger sent us personal mail about wanting shutter glasses.
                                                 -Joshua Shagam
(JoshuaS@aol.com  <---  This would be good form for starters.  But mail a
reply to REND386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, or my message will have fallen upon deaf
ears!)

:)

From SYLLAFEVER@delphi.com  Fri Jun 18 01:30:27 1993
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 01:30:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: SYLLAFEVER@delphi.com
Subject: V/R hardware
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <01GZI7Z13EAU99E0UU@delphi.com>
X-Vms-To: INTERNET"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

   I have seen some messages from people looking for power gloves, shutter
glasses, etc. Feel free to contact VRASP (Virtual Reality Alliance of Students
and Professional) at P.O. Box 4139, Highland Park, NJ 08904. They have supplies
ranging from demo disks ($2) to dual gloves, glasses, software, connectors for
$285. You have to join, $30/annually, you get membership, bimonthly newsletter,
and more.

From joshuas@aol.com  Fri Jun 18 16:01:43 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Reply to Steve Cox
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:03:03 EDT
Message-Id: <9306181603.tn69269@aol.com>

I agree that SuperScape is powerful, however a lot of that stuff can be done
in Rend386.  If somebody could design a more powerful object format, as well
as texture-mapping, (which shouldn't be too hard seeing the Metal and Glass
textures) Rend386 could be equally powerful.

A lot of those features that you mentioned were not in the demo I saw.  Maybe
that's because I've only seen v1.1, but I still have one reservation about
SuperScape - it's written by the same guys who wrote VRS, and VRS is, well, a
piece of dung.  When it did actually load on my system, it didn't work right.
 On a friend's computer, it would save but not load.  Richard la Bonte, a
person who used VRS1.0 all the time, could not get VRS2.0 working correctly,
such as sound (Add that to R386!), and the animation was the worst I've ever
seen.  Not to mention that the overall graphic quality was terrible.

With a little work, a freeware-type development system could work better than
$8500.  Oh, yes, there's that too - the price.  And the system requirements -
SS requires at LEAST a 486DX-33 with VGA for SLOW performance.  To get
anywhere decent you need a DX2-66 with TIGA.  (TIGA boards cost a few hundred
dollars.)  And SS doesn't allow you to program your own interface, it doesn't
(to my knowledge) hook up to any external hardware besides a Force Ball
(since when is that actively immersive!) and the SCL (SuperScape Command
Language) for control is a pain to learn.  (Might as well use LISP with a
concussion!)

In conclusion, although the samples you've probably seen with SuperScape are
impressive, it would take a second mortgage and a few years to do with
SuperScape what would take a C compiler and a couple weeks with R386.

(Are you reading this, Bernie?)

                                 -Joshua Shagam

8)

From joshuas@aol.com  Fri Jun 18 18:36:54 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Rend386 modeler
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 18:40:47 EDT
Message-Id: <9306181840.tn70653@aol.com>

Under development right now by Oracle Games (that's me - Joshua Shagam) is
the Render 386 .PLG modeler.  It will utilize 640x480x16 VGA graphics and my
own Graph3D graphics interface.  It won't be as advanced as its insiprator,
but it is a great way to make .PLGs without having to determine coordinates
by hand!

                                 -Joshua Shagam

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Fri Jun 18 23:05:51 1993
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Date: 18 Jun 93 23:02:55 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>
Subject: A New World, VRASP, supplies, Sound for Rend!, etc.
Message-Id: <930619030255_70233.1552_CHV70-1@CompuServe.COM>

I just uploaded a world thst I created to sunee.uwaterloo.ca.  It contains 
6 "superquadrics" which are a special kind of surface.  They cannot be 
generated by extrusion, rotation, or buy a simple z-f(x,y) formula.  They 
look really cool, so check it out!  If you have the book "Graphics Gems 
III" turn to page 138 and you'll see some 2D pictures.  The world is in the 
pub/rend386/plgfiles directory, the filename is "superq.exe".  It is a 
self-extracting archive.

This world was created with a new tool I am working which would satisfy 
Joshua's hope for " 
       o Interactive object-creation program".  I can't say much now, but 
it is written in Borland's Turbo Vision, can shell out and run rend386 with 
a keypress, and already has a LONG LIST of features.  By the time I'm done 
it should subsume all capabilites of OGRE and then some.  Let me know if 
you can be of help on this, or if you have a "vested" interest.  I think it 
would be a great educational tool becuase even a junior high school level 
person could use it I think.  Joshua, I think that your program sounds neat 
too, amybe we could collaborate.  My program doesn't use graphcis yet 
except when shelling out to run rend, but I've been thinking about adding 
graphics to create 2D objects for extrusion and rotation.


Mr. LaFever wrote, in reference to VRASP, "They have supplies ranging from 
demo disks ($2) to dual gloves, glasses, software, connectors for $285. You 
have to join, $30/annually, you get membership, bimonthly newsletter, and 
more."

That statement sort of implies that you have to be a VRASP member to buy 
the VR supplies.  This is not the case.  You do not need to become a member 
of VRASP to purchase gloves, connectors, software, or otherwise.  Nor is 
there a discount on these items for members at present.  (We did offer 
discounts to VRASP members at the Glove Workshop last April.)  Many 
customers do become members.  BTW Mr LaFever, it was nice meeting you at 
the Meckler conference  :-)

I think I told everyone here about objglv.zip didn't I?  It's in the 
pub/glove directory.  You need pkunzip 2.04 to unzip it.  pkz version 1.1 
will NOT work.  objglv.zip contains a version of rend386 that supports 
user-definable glove gestures to move around the world, and select and move 
and twist objects.  It also supports TWO GLOVES at one time!!  Also it's a 
little faster than the original "version 4", and has a couple other 
"little" features.  The zip file also contains full DOS and Windows demos 
of my glove program Object Glove and a Windows program that lets you use 
the glove to control the mouse cursor.  I have a more complete description 
that I would be happy to upload to this list.

One more thing I wnat to say.  I have succeeded in adding sound support to 
rend386.  It requires a SoundBlaster or compatible.  It loads sounds from a 
format similar to .WAV files.  You associate sounds with objects in the 
.WLD file.  When you touch an object with a glove or mouse, the sound plays 
(in background, while rend386 continues rendereing.  There are a few 
problems with this that need to be cleared up (each sound requires a 
minimum of 64K of heap space becuase it's played thru DMA).  Also the final 
version will probably require expanded memory.  This should not be a 
problem with 386 level systems.  It will still support two gloves, 
gestures, etc.

That's all I can think of.  My hands hurt.  My everything hurts (I went 
mountain biking today.) 
 So, until later...

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________


From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Fri Jun 18 23:33:59 1993
Received: from gsvms2.cc.GaSoU.edu by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA27919>; Fri, 18 Jun 93 23:33:59 -0400
Date:    Fri, 18 Jun 1993 23:31:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930618233129.3fb8@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: .PLG Modeling
To: rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Joshua-

There are a couple modelers out for the .plg format...one is on sunee for ftp
called ogre41 which is a scripting modeler and real easy to use another is a
commercial package called NorthCad 3D v9.8 its about $60 bucks and was designed
to be a full featured solid modeler however I spoke with Paul (author) and he
incorped a .plg file write for the models made among others (.dxf, .pov...) 
You can get info by calling or writing:

The Quest Co.
3117 W. Holland Ave.
Fresno, CA 93722

ph: (209) 222-5301

I have put up several .wlds to sunee built with the Ncad ie dactyl.wld etc... 
it does have one prob--it writes out both sides of the polys so I have written
a patch for this that will filter out the hidden side or try to at least and
will also let you decide wether you want the object filltered or not...I have
not sent this out yet but I will soon, I am willing to email it to you uuxfer
if you need it.  If you are on a tight budget though OGRE41 works Great for
free.

Todd Porter
so92332@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu  (at least for another 30 days)


From u3110brf@elm.circa.ufl.edu  Sat Jun 19 12:23:37 1993
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Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 12:23:00 -0400
From: u3110brf@elm.circa.ufl.edu (Daniel D. Roscigno)
Message-Id: <9306191623.AA28972@elm.circa.ufl.edu>
To: joshuas@aol.com, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Reply to Steve Cox

I have a friend with an old powerglove.  He says that there 
used to be a screen that went over the TV screen to use the
glove with.  He no longer has the screen,  what exactly is needed
(other than the rewiring ) to use a power~rglove with REND?

From broehl  Mon Jun 21 14:38:04 1993
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	id <AA22294>; Mon, 21 Jun 93 14:38:04 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306211838.AA22294@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New world for REND386
To: rend386
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 14:38:03 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Todd Porter has contributed a 3D version of the Sega circuit; it's on
sunee.uwaterloo.ca in pub/rend386/plgfiles/sega3d.zip (remember to transfer
in binary mode -- people are *still* making that mistake! -- and that
transfers in the evenings will be faster than during the day, Eastern time).

From mvalente@draco.lnec.pt  Mon Jun 21 16:38:00 1993
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 22:35:50 GMT
From: mvalente@draco.lnec.pt
Message-Id: <9306212235.AA26900@draco.lnec.pt>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Help with Sega-PC connection




 Hi:
 
 I have the Sega shutter glasses but I dont know how to connect them.
 I have a doc with a depiction of the circuit that should do it, but
this isnt very accurate, since the pinouts for the IC are not ordered,
and there's no info on this; also there's no info on the 2N222 ( which
pin is the emitter, the collector, etc ?). This message has the doc that
I have appended, so that you can use if you didnt have it or refer to it
and try to help me :-)
 
 If anyone out there has successfully connected the Sega glasses to the PC,
could you please send me a more detailed circuit and info on the components
that I already have ? 
 
 Thanx in advance.
 
 My current info on the PC to Sega glasses connection follows.

--------------------------------
Circuit to connect SEGA 3D glasses to RS-232 port.
--------------------------------------------------

       RS-232
     DB25 / DB9
                                                   10K
RTS   4      7  Switching signal +/- 10V  --------vvvvv--+
                                                         |
                                                         |
GND   7      5  Ground ----+-------------+--+---------+--|----+
                           |             |  |         |  |    |
                           |             |  +-|>|--+  |  |    |
                           +--|>|--+    ---        |  |  |    |  Transistor
                                   |    ---  22 uF |  |  |    |   2N2222
                                   |     |         |  |  |  +-+---------+
                                   |     |         |  |  |  | Emitter   |
                                   |     |         |  |  |  |           |
DTR  20      4  Vdd +10V --|>|-----+-----+         +--|--+--+ Base      |
                                         |            |     |           |
                              +--+--+--+-+-vvvvv---+--|-----+ Collector |
                              |  |  |  |    10K    |  |     |           |
                              |  |  |  |           |  |     +-----------+
                      +-------+--+--+--+-----------+--+--+
                      |       1  9  13 14          5  7  |
                      |                                  |
                      |   RCA CD 4030 Quad XOR gate      |
                      |                                  |
                      | 2 11  12       3  6  8   10   4  |
                      +-+--+---+-------+--+--+----+---+--+
                        |  |   |       |  |  |    |   |
                        +--+   |       +--+--+    |   +--- Outside of jack
                           |   |             |    |
                           |   +-vvvvv-+     |    +------- Middle of jack
                           |      22K  |     |
                           |           |     +------------ Centre of jack
                           +-vvvvv-----+     |
                              22K      |     |
                                      ---    |
                              .01 uF  ---    |
                                       |     |
                                       +-----+

Diode:     --|>|--

Resistor:  --vvvvv--

Capacitor:   |
            ---
            ---
             |

This is my best attempt at a rendition of the circuit which connects my
SEGA glasses to my AT. I didn't design the circuit -- I'm a software
rather than hardware person. In fact I barely understand it -- as far as
I can tell, the .01uF capacitor & the 22K resistors act as a delay. The
outputs of the XOR gates feed back into their own inputs, thus producing
an oscillator. The "jack" mentioned in the diagram is the mini-jack
which is connected as standard to the glasses. "Centre", "middle", and
"outside" relate to the external connections, looking at the thing
end-on.

Disclaimer: The circuit diagram above may be entirely wrong. My
description may be wrong.

Caveat emptor... to paraphrase the standard software licence agreement:
It's as good as I can get it. If it doesn't work or blows up your
computer or your glasses and blinds you for life, I'll give you back all
the money you paid me.

Good Luck...    Frank.


--------------------------------------

From joshuas@aol.com  Mon Jun 21 17:28:17 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Disregard the modeler
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 17:32:26 EDT
Message-Id: <9306211732.tn11615@aol.com>

For some reason, the computer won't be able to store more than 1 or 2 faces
with the modeler under development by Oracle Games.  This may be VaporWare. 
(Oh well.)

                               Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@aol.com  Mon Jun 21 17:38:12 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: The author used reply...
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 93 17:41:51 EDT
Message-Id: <9306211741.tn11739@aol.com>

Subj:  A New World, VRASP, supplies, Sound for Rend!, etc.
Date:  93-06-21 15:58:48 EDT
From: 70233.1552@compuserve.com
To:    JoshuaS

I just uploaded a world thst I created to sunee.uwaterloo.ca.  It contains 
6 "superquadrics" which are a special kind of surface.  They cannot be 
generated by extrusion, rotation, or buy a simple z-f(x,y) formula.  They 
look really cool, so check it out!  If you have the book "Graphics Gems 
III" turn to page 138 and you'll see some 2D pictures.  The world is in the 
pub/rend386/plgfiles directory, the filename is "superq.exe".  It is a 
self-extracting archive.

This world was created with a new tool I am working which would satisfy 
Joshua's hope for " 
       o Interactive object-creation program".  I can't say much now, but 
it is written in Borland's Turbo Vision, can shell out and run rend386 with 
a keypress, and already has a LONG LIST of features.  By the time I'm done 
it should subsume all capabilites of OGRE and then some.  Let me know if 
you can be of help on this, or if you have a "vested" interest.  I think it 
would be a great educational tool becuase even a junior high school level 
person could use it I think.  Joshua, I think that your program sounds neat 
too, amybe we could collaborate.  My program doesn't use graphcis yet 
except when shelling out to run rend, but I've been thinking about adding 
graphics to create 2D objects for extrusion and rotation.


Mr. LaFever wrote, in reference to VRASP, "They have supplies ranging from 
demo disks ($2) to dual gloves, glasses, software, connectors for $285. You 
have to join, $30/annually, you get membership, bimonthly newsletter, and 
more."

That statement sort of implies that you have to be a VRASP member to buy 
the VR supplies.  This is not the case.  You do not need to become a member 
of VRASP to purchase gloves, connectors, software, or otherwise.  Nor is 
there a discount on these items for members at present.  (We did offer 
discounts to VRASP members at the Glove Workshop last April.)  Many 
customers do become members.  BTW Mr LaFever, it was nice meeting you at 
the Meckler conference  :-)

I think I told everyone here about objglv.zip didn't I?  It's in the 
pub/glove directory.  You need pkunzip 2.04 to unzip it.  pkz version 1.1 
will NOT work.  objglv.zip contains a version of rend386 that supports 
user-definable glove gestures to move around the world, and select and move 
and twist objects.  It also supports TWO GLOVES at one time!!  Also it's a 
little faster than the original "version 4", and has a couple other 
"little" features.  The zip file also contains full DOS and Windows demos 
of my glove program Object Glove and a Windows program that lets you use 
the glove to control the mouse cursor.  I have a more complete description 
that I would be happy to upload to this list.

One more thing I wnat to say.  I have succeeded in adding sound support to 
rend386.  It requires a SoundBlaster or compatible.  It loads sounds from a 
format similar to .WAV files.  You associate sounds with objects in the 
.WLD file.  When you touch an object with a glove or mouse, the sound plays 
(in background, while rend386 continues rendereing.  There are a few 
problems with this that need to be cleared up (each sound requires a 
minimum of 64K of heap space becuase it's played thru DMA).  Also the final 
version will probably require expanded memory.  This should not be a 
problem with 386 level systems.  It will still support two gloves, 
gestures, etc.

That's all I can think of.  My hands hurt.  My everything hurts (I went 
mountain biking today.) 
 So, until later...

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________


From thiel@u.washington.edu  Mon Jun 21 17:58:08 1993
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From: thiel@u.washington.edu
Message-Id: <9306212158.AA14320@stein.u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: thiel@stein.u.washington.edu
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: PG


HELP!!! I'm trying to hook up my powerglove (after it being disconnected for several months) and can't seem to get it to register... I hook the correct pins
up in the serial port, and connect the power leads to a 12V and a ground, and 
then run Rend386 with the -g option.  The glove just sits there and chirps about
once a second, while the screen reads "Waiting for glove"  No lights register onthe reciever panel and the glove beeps every once in a while, different tones...

   Any help anyone could send would be greatly appreciated... I can't seem to do
it... very frustrating after seeing all of these new applications for it on the
net.

Thanks in advance

   Thiel@u.washington.edu

From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Mon Jun 21 21:36:48 1993
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Date:    Mon, 21 Jun 1993 21:33:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930621213359.5584@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: pglove probs
To: thiel@u.washington.edu, rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"thiel@u.washington.edu", SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

Theil@uwashington.edu said he was having trouble with his pglove:

If I remeber correctly the glove need 5V  and from what you are saying it
sounds like what happens when I try to run my glove at above 7V so 12V would
def. be to high.  Another thing I have found is that I have blown the
thermistor?? (fuse, little green thing in the box the glove hooks into)  this
can also cause the mentioned prob...if it's not blown all the way it will still
try to work...I just jumped it and now the 2 gloves I've done it to work fine. 
BTW I blew them trying to run to glove at too high of a voltage.

Todd Porter


From SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU  Mon Jun 21 22:03:38 1993
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Date:    Mon, 21 Jun 1993 22:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <930621220032.5584@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>
Subject: sega cir.
To: mvalente@draco.lnec.pt, rend386@sunee
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"mvalente@draco.lnec.pt", SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

>I have a doc with a depiction of the circuit that should do it, but
>this isnt very accurate, since the pinouts for the IC are not ordered,
>and there's no info on this; also there's no info on the 2N222 ( which
>pin is the emitter, the collector, etc ?). This message has the doc that
>I have appended, so that you can use if you didnt have it or refer to it
>and try to help me :-)

Frank the file you got here is just to help you figure out where everything
needs to be connected  you will have to come up with the artwork for the
circuit board or just use one that uses wire jumpers.  

PCVR a homebrew VR magazine has the art all laid out for you in one of the
magazines...can't remeber which one but you could get the back issue I think
they run around $4.  Joe, the pub, recently moved and I don't have my issue
with the new address and # to give you but someone here should be able to
supply it for you.  If not write back and I'll send it to you.  Wish I had a
scanner to scan my art and send you a .gif but no can do...I did create a .wld
file of the sega3d circut and its on sunee.uwaterloo.ca  it's all laid out like
the one in PCVR so that may help some in visualation but not exacts as I didn't
make is completely detailed such as knotchs in the chips and flats and all. 
May help anyway though try to get it.  If you can't I will email it to you via
uuxfer.

The 2N2222 you will be able to tell the pins by the flat side...the box or bag
you bought the tran in should have a little pic that will tell you which one
corresponds to which...provided you have the flat side type tran (Radio Shack
usually has this kind).

Todd Porter
hope this helps I am no expert on electronics but I did get mine to work so I
thought I'd try to help.

From mvalente@draco.lnec.pt  Mon Jun 21 22:13:53 1993
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          id AA13740; Tue, 22 Jun 1993 04:12:09 GMT
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 04:12:09 GMT
From: mvalente@draco.lnec.pt
Message-Id: <9306220412.AA13740@draco.lnec.pt>
To: SO92332@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU, mvalente@draco.lnec.pt, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  sega cir.


 
 
  Thanx for your answer.
 
  By chance I had already downloaded your sega3d.wld file :-)
  Ill see if it helps at home.
 
  I dont need the art for the circuit; I dont even want to get
 into that, too much work. I'm using ( dont know the name in
 English ) thingie with lots of pins, made of plastic where you
 can connect electronics components. I already build successfully
 the PowerGlove interface. What I'd like to find is a more detailed
 circuit, in particular one that depicts the IC with the indented
 part and with connections to its pins in the order that they are
 in reality: in my scheme the pin connections are all jumbled.
 
 
  Thanx anyway.
 
 
  C U!
 
  By(e)
 
    Mario Valente
 
 PS- By the way, I'm not Frank; that was the name of the guy who 
    made the original scheme; my name is Mario Valente, and I
    live in Portugal.


From barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu  Tue Jun 22 01:31:30 1993
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Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 00:31:26 CDT
From: barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jason Barile)
Message-Id: <9306220531.AA09118@necs.vuse>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Sound with Rend386

Maybe I'm sending out flames, but why on EARTH would the guy who added
sound to Rend386 use a new format? ("similar to .WAV")  With as much
conversionitis as is already hovering around Rend386, we don't need any
new-fangled formats.  If it's ever going to take off like we all want it
to, it's going to have to work with people well - not just cater to the 
homebrew hackers out there who like to keep up with the latest "this2that.exe"
and so on.  

My question is:  Why is the new format better, why not use .VOC or .WAV, or
even .MOD?  I don't know a lot about Sound Blaster programming, but I >do<
know what's already out there and what's popular, and what millions of BBS's
around the world ALREADY support.
 
-JB

From A.Kamvissis@computer-science.hull.ac.uk  Tue Jun 22 05:38:48 1993
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Via: uk.ac.hull; Tue, 22 Jun 1993 10:37:57 +0100
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Subject: Evaluating Rend386 ?
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 10:36:59 WET DST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: "A.Kamvissis" <A.Kamvissis@computer-science.hull.ac.uk>
Original-Sender: A.Kamvissis@computer-science.hull.ac.uk

Hi.
I am trying to find out the performance of the REND386 in a 386 or 486 PC.
Does anybody develop a small program/test to show how fast or slow the REND386
is ? or any other ways that can measure the performance of the REND386 ? 
I also trying to make a list (something like a report) of all the strengths
and weaknesses of the package.
If someone things that something is missing or has to be taken out of the
package, please respond back to me.
Any comments are welcomed. When I have a complete list I will posted the
results to you via this list.
Thank you for you attention.

Virtually. Aris Kamvissis


#################################################
#  Aris Kamvissis				#
#  Virtual Environment Lab			#
#  Dept. of Computer Science 			#
#  Hull University				#
#  Hull  HU6 7RX				#
#  North Humberside				#
#  United Kingdom				#
#	e-mail for U.K only :			#
#		A.KAMVISSIS@uk.ac.hull.dcs	#
#	  or   : cspak@uk.ac.hull.dcs		#
#	e-mail for rest of the world :		#
#		A.KAMVISSIS@dcs.hull.ac.uk	#
#	  or   : cspak@dcs.hull.ac.uk		#
#################################################



From thiel@u.washington.edu  Tue Jun 22 16:19:27 1993
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From: me <thiel@u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <9306222019.AA06193@stein.u.washington.edu>
X-Sender: thiel@stein.u.washington.edu
Subject: more problems
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 13:19:20 PDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


    Alright, I need one more bit of help here... I finally figured out that my 
power glove wasn't working due to it's fuse being burnt out... I replaced that
and now it seems to function properly until... 
    When I run any of the programs that use the glove, as soon as the program 
attempts to access the glove, the glove suddenly shuts down: the chirping stops and the lights on the recievers go dead.  this seems to be related to the parallel port connection, because if I discannect that, the glove starts working; plugit back in ( all this as the screen is saying "waiting for glove") and the glovedies again.  As you can imagine, this is very frustrating.  Again, any help would be more than wonderful.

thanks in advance...
   thiel@u.washington.edu


From joshuas@aol.com  Tue Jun 22 22:48:31 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Maybe not vaporware!
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 22:49:42 EDT
Message-Id: <9306222249.tn32748@aol.com>

Here's an idea to make it possible for people with only Pascal (like me) to
be able to use this wonderful C program!  Here's the steps that somebody
needs to take (somebody with the development kit):

1. Using your favorite C compiler, compile all of the development files into
an Object (.OBJ) file called R386.OBJ
2. Make a file which can be uploaded to the E-Mail system which goes like
this:

unit Rend386;

interface
  {$L R386.OBJ}

var
  <global variable name> : <type>
  <repeat for all globals>

  procedure <procedure name> (<procedure inputs>);
  <repeat for each procedure>

implementation
  procedure <procedure name> (<procedure inputs>); external;
  <repeat for each procedure>

end.

The easiest way would be to do the implementation, cut & paste the interface,
add the globals, then remove the "external;" clauses.  Send this (probably
lengthy) file to me, JoshuaS@aol.com.  FTP the .OBJ to
Rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca.  I will grab the .OBJ off the net, and compile
the resulting .TPU, and provide the developers' documentation (Send me that,
too, please), and - viola - we have Pascal support for R386!

                                          Joshua Shagam

(The subject is because if somebody can do this, I'll be able to make that
.PLG modeler after all!)

From joshuas@aol.com  Tue Jun 22 22:55:20 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Help with... (mvalente)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 22:58:36 EDT
Message-Id: <9306222258.tn32840@aol.com>

This is perfectly detailed.  All you need to do is pick up a book on
schematics and interpretation, and make sure it contains how to identify pins
on an IC, as well as pins on a transistor.  A good book that I can suggest
for the transistors is "Getting Started in Electronics" by Forest Mims III,
available at Radio Shack.  And, IC's are quite simple, really.  The IC should
be oriented vertically so that the little semicircular chip is at the top. 
Pin 1 is the top left, and the pins are numbered increasingly
counterclockwise.  And, on a transistor, (correct me if I'm wrong) you orient
the transistor horizontally with the flat side down.  From left to right, the
pins are Base, Collector, Emitter.  I hope this is helpful.

                                    Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@aol.com  Wed Jun 23 00:23:48 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Re: Sound with Rend386
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 00:25:03 EDT
Message-Id: <9306230025.tn33749@aol.com>

Reply to barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu

This format is probably "similar to .WAV" in the sense that it probably uses
no file header, or a slightly different one.  .MOD files are probably too
large and complicated to run in the background while everything is on at the
moment.  Maybe somebody could use 3d-sound techniques on a .MOD for the GUS
or PAS16 (they both have 3d-sound).  I've read in a book that there's a
system on the SGi which has 3d-sound where it does play music, and you can
tell where it is in the room.  Anyway, this format is probably the .SMP
format used in .MOD files - fixed at 11025Hz, monaural, and no header (just
pure, raw data)

From kashnow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU  Wed Jun 23 01:11:40 1993
Received: from ucsu.Colorado.EDU by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA19295>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 01:11:40 -0400
Received: by ucsu.Colorado.EDU id AA16210
  (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4/CNS-2.1 for rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca); Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:11:38 -0600
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:11:38 -0600
From: KASHNOW  JEREMY DAVID <kashnow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Message-Id: <199306230511.AA16210@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
To: rend386@sunee, thiel@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:  PG

I had a similar problem with my glove.  It worked on every pc except mine.
I changed out my motherboard and my IDE controller from which the parallel
port was interfaced.  This solved the problem.  I thuink it was the
controller.  Try putting a new one in they are cheap ($20-$30). 

From broehl  Wed Jun 23 07:02:27 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA24286>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 07:02:27 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306231102.AA24286@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Important changes to the REND386 email list
To: rend386
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 7:02:26 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


There are now over 300 people on the rend386 mailing list, and with the
upcoming release of "Virtual Reality Creations" (the book that Dave, myself
and John Eagan have written) there may be an influx of new readers.

That may mean an increase in traffic.  Here's what we plan to do about it.

As a first step, I'm splitting the existing rend386 mailing list into two
pieces: an announcement list and a discussion list.

The announcement list will be used *only* for announcements of new software
related to rend386, new PLG files, new worlds, and so on.  It will be a very
low-traffic list (it should peak around one article per week, and the average
will be even lower).  If that kind of information is all you're interested in,
then this is the list for you.

The discussion list will be for items of a more technical nature; problems
with compiling and linking, questions about algorithms, ideas for additional
features for rend386, and so on.  The traffic on this list will be highly
variable, but if other lists are any indication there will be "bursts" of
interesting discussions followed by long periods of quiet contemplation.

Initially, everyone who's on the existing rend386 list will be on both lists.
Note that this does not mean an increase in traffic!  It's just that the
(infrequent) announcements will be sent to you via a different address.
If you're happy with the way things are going now, then do nothing and
everything will be the same.

If you want to be taken off the discussion list, send email to
rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (the same address you use to subscribe).
If you want to be taken off the announcement list too, send email to
rend386-announce-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca and we'll take care of it.

I mentioned above that this is a "first step".  The next step may be to
change the "discussion" list into a digest format, and to get into
more sophisticated, automated mailing-list software.  If anyone has
any recommendations for a Unix-based package for doing that sort of thing,
I'd love to hear them.

Finally, if anyone has any strong objections to any of the above, now is a
good time to voice them.

Thanks for your patience.


From boeren@ist.ucf.edu  Wed Jun 23 12:50:04 1993
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	id <AA29997>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 12:50:04 -0400
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	id AA13210; Wed, 23 Jun 93 12:42:50 EDT
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 12:42:50 EDT
From: boeren@ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9306231642.AA13210@sparc1.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: announcements

A couple of things:
First, I will soon be uploading a new OGRE with a few new datatypes and some
better-working automatic polygon reduction.  Also, I will hopefully get a chance
to make a lower polycount dactyl world.  I think I can get it MUCH smaller than
the NCAD one that's available now.

Second, I am working on a PLG viewer that works within a windowing system.  Actually, it already works, I just want to work on optimization.  Here's a basic breakdown ofwhat the system can do.
  
    I can open up multiple windows of varying types (PLG, terminal, GUS sound, etc)
and have them all operating on top of each other.  You can output to any windowd
regardless of whether it is on top.  So it would be easy to make a system with
text and 3D graphics together with the capability for pop-up messages or anything
else you want.  The graphics are wireframe right now, which seems to work fine.  It does use backfacing so it doesn't look cluttered or anything.  I can show PLGs in VGA 320x200x256 mode, and I also have a version working on CGA 320x200x4 mode.  No ASM is used anywhere in the libraries, and the video is completely separate from the rest, so it's easy to add new screen drivers for SVGA or anything else.  If there is any interest in this I can upload a demo program or something to sunee.  The demo I have right now uses the 4 directional arrows and page up/down similar to demo3.  Later
tonight I'll probably make another demo with a PLG in freefall in the background under some other windows or something like that.  

Anyhow, just dropping in to let you all know what I'm working on.  With this system, I don't need to have  hotkey shelling to rend386, I can have a PLG window showing your model as you work with another window where you can edit your scripts.  As soon as I write an editor, that is!

From u3110brf@elm.circa.ufl.edu  Wed Jun 23 14:31:29 1993
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	id <AA01923>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:31:29 -0400
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	id AA16588; Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:31:01 -0400
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:31:01 -0400
From: u3110brf@elm.circa.ufl.edu (Daniel D. Roscigno)
Message-Id: <9306231831.AA16588@elm.circa.ufl.edu>
To: broehl@sunee, rend386@sunee
Subject: Re:  Important changes to the REND386 email list

I am new to the internet, and maybe this is a crazy idea,
but.. How about making the mailing list a part of the regular
newsgroups?  I read tons of messages in the games newsgroup with
"rn" on my system.  Would this be reasonable?

From boeren@ist.ucf.edu  Wed Jun 23 15:29:58 1993
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	id AA14664; Wed, 23 Jun 93 15:22:48 EDT
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 15:22:48 EDT
From: boeren@ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9306231922.AA14664@sparc1.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: stuff

OK.  I'll try to put together a short demo program and up it to sunee
as soon as possible.  I have an in-class presentation tomorrow at 8:00 so it
won't be until at least friday.  

Todd:  Yeah, I got your wlds.  Thanks in advance for DXF docs, I might even
    use them :)  No offense on dactyl.wld, but if we want to get a game going
    that can run on 486 with modem support we need to be EXTREMELY frugal with
    level-of-detail stuff.  Anyhow, I'll try to get something slapped together
    for this weekend.  I have been getting mail though, just erratic network
    support here.  

Also, does anyone have some good knowledge of how to use the 640x480x16 VGA
mode?  I know someone does, but I can't remember the name.  Ideally, either
C source code or pseudo, but it must use direct video RAM access, and it must
not be ASM.  Just a description of how to write a pixel is OK for now.  That's
enough to get me going, because I'd like to do a higher res version of my
wireframe viewer.  I've just never worked in 16 colors before.  It'll probably be slow compared to 320x200 though.  

PS - People sure respond quickly to this group, don't they?

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Wed Jun 23 16:21:07 1993
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	id <AA03357>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:21:07 -0400
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	id AA06993; Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:22:25 -0600
Message-Id: <9306232022.AA06993@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: mvalente@draco.lnec.pt
Cc: SO92332@gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu, rend386@sunee,
        joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: sega cir. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Jun 93 04:12:09 GMT."
             <9306220412.AA13740@draco.lnec.pt> 
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:22:24 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

The name of the plastic thingy is an exponent breadboard.

			Joshua

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Wed Jun 23 16:27:06 1993
Received: from [192.231.62.2] by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA03403>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:27:06 -0400
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	id AA07018; Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:29:28 -0600
Message-Id: <9306232029.AA07018@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee>
Cc: rend386@sunee, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Important changes to the REND386 email list 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jun 93 07:02:26 EDT."
             <9306231102.AA24286@sunee.uwaterloo.ca> 
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:29:27 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

What address do we send mail to so that we can put it on the announce
list rather than the discuss list?

			Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Wed Jun 23 16:26:34 1993
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	id <AA03393>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:26:34 -0400
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	id AA07010; Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:29:04 -0600
Message-Id: <9306232029.AA07010@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: About those reply things...
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:29:03 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

It turns out that the reply problems need to only be observed on mail
gateways such as America OnLine and Prodigy.  On true InterNet
connections, it will automatically reply to all recipients of the
original message, i.e. the entire net.

                            Joshua Shagam

Also, on mail gateways, a reply made will only show the direct
responses rather than the entire history of the letter, so son't always
rely on the message headers if you're on a mail gateway, like I usually am.

Sorry for any inconvenience(s) this information has caused.

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Wed Jun 23 19:24:39 1993
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	id <AA06398>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 19:24:39 -0400
Received: by ihb.compuserve.com (5.65/5.930129sam)
	id AA21955; Wed, 23 Jun 93 19:24:32 -0400
Date: 23 Jun 93 19:17:07 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee>
Subject: Re: Sound for rend386
Message-Id: <930623231707_70233.1552_CHV92-3@CompuServe.COM>

Jason Barile writes, "...why on EARTH would the guy who added sound to 
Rend386 use a new format? ("similar to .WAV")  With as much conversionitis 
as is already hovering around Rend386, we don't need any new-fangled 
formats."

Well, "the guy" was just using a "raw" format, with no header information, 
just plain digitized data.  ".WAV" is just raw digitized data with some 
header information.  So the guy changed his program to interpret the header 
information, and now it reads ".WAV" files.  Happy?  The Guy is using the 
"Sound Blaster Freedom" libraries and that's why the raw file format was 
mentioned - that's the format that the SBF lib directly supports.  The Guy 
does not have enough initiative or creativity to invent his own data 
format.  8-)

If you have information on the format of, (or programming libraries to 
read), other formats such as MOD or VOC, or even a program to do the 
conversions please forward that information to The Guy (address given 
below).

I hope to be uploading the version of rend386 that has sound blaster 
support in about a week.  It will have source code except for the part of 
the code that uses two gloves, since that is being sold separately.  In 
fact The Guy wrote that part too.

		Yours Truly,
		The Guy

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\    Senior Editor of Pix-Elation
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________


From ark3@leicester.ac.uk  Thu Jun 24 07:38:44 1993
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	id <AA14142>; Thu, 24 Jun 93 07:38:44 -0400
Via: uk.ac.leicester; Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:52:21 +0100
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          id <13449-0@xtelpp.leicester.ac.uk>; Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:47:13 +0100
From: "A.R. Kunze" <ark3@leicester.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <2309.9306240952@irix.le.ac.uk>
Subject: 2 Powerglove problems
To: rend386@sunee
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 10:52:12 BST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]

Hello World

I have recently acquired two powergloves to work with rend386. I firstly wired
them up to two independant parallel ports but only one glove is able to 
select objects and manipulate them.

I then wired the two gloves to the one parallel port but the same thing happend
also I cannot seem to get the leftcursor to be lhandsm.plg only the right hand.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong I am pretty sure that I have wired
them up correctly?

Thanks

Andrew Kunze

VR Group of Leicester University
ark3@irix.le.ac.uk


From STULINVILCA@MERCUR.USAO.EDU  Thu Jun 24 13:37:47 1993
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	id <AA19180>; Thu, 24 Jun 93 13:37:47 -0400
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 12:36:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: STULINVILCA@MERCUR.USAO.EDU
To: rend386@sunee
Message-Id: <930624123650.271d@MERCUR.USAO.EDU>
Subject: SEGA helmet

Does anyone know anything about the compatibility of the SEGA helmet and the 
PC?

To "The Guy":
Mark, How was the information for interfacing (software) with the Mattel Gove
obtained?  What's the probability of the SEGA helmet working out?


	Could I please have definitions of ORGE and ASM?  Thankyou.

From jonbl@microsoft.com  Thu Jun 24 20:27:27 1993
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	id <AA24397>; Thu, 24 Jun 93 20:27:27 -0400
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	id AA27123; Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:25:52 -0700
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X-Msmail-Message-Id:  DDFDF1CC
X-Msmail-Conversation-Id:  6163E49E
X-Msmail-Fixed-Font:  0001
X-Msmail-Parent-Message-Id:  C2BC3329
From: Jon Blossom <jonbl@microsoft.com>
To: glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov, rend386@sunee, scivw@u.washington.edu
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:22:41 PDT 
Subject: FW: Macintosh polygon rendering package available

I'm happy to announce the availability of Gossamer 1.0, a polygon-based
rendering system for the Macintosh. It is currently available as a
self-extracting StuffIt archive available for ftp in /pub/VR/source on
ftp.apple.com. It's in BinHex format.

Gossamer 1.0 may be used freely to write programs destined for personal
use or for the public domain. Any commercial applications, including
shareware, must be licensed from me.

REQUIREMENTS:
Gossamer 1.0 requires a 68020 or better Macintosh with a 68881 or
compatible math coprocessor (all math in the first release is floating
point). It supports 1- to 32-bit color, though the simple demonstration
included is limited to 1 to 8 bit palettized devices.

The code was compiled with Symantec's THINK C 5.0, and the libraries
are in that format. I am not sure whether this will work with version
6, but one hopes so...

FEATURES:
Gossamer 1.0 is a pared-down basic polygonal renderer. It uses a flat
shading model with support in the sample for 16 colors of 16 shades
each on an 8-bit device.

Currently, there is no support for multiple object representations,
hierarchical segments, stereo rendering, or spatial partitioning. Also,
Gossamer 1.0 is strictly a rendering engine: there is no direct support
for 3D input devices, though adding such support to the demo
program is trivial. In fact, I'll probably add PowerGlove support for the
Menelli and/or PGSI boxes if someone will tell me how (my PG
connection is one of the "old style" that uses an extremely non-standard
68HC11 EVBU connection).

Gossamer 1.0 is intended to begin enabling Rend386-like applications on
the Macintosh. It is NOT directly compatible with Rend386 source, but
translation should be fairly simple.

THE PACKAGE:
Included is the Gossamer 1.0 library in THINK C 5.0 format, sample
source code for the demonstration program, documentation in Microsoft
Word 5.1 format, and a Samples folder containing objects ported
from Rend386 PLG files. Load them into the demo using the "File:Open"
menu option. Unfortunately, I did not have time to support PLG files
directly, but that's a BIG priority for me in the short term.

I am not releasing the source code for Gossamer 1.0, but I probably will
in the future - as soon as I have fixed the bugs that will no doubt
appear in this release. Call me shy, but I'm afraid of "dropping my pants"
to the world...

RELEASE NOTES:
Gossamer 1.0 is a "first-generation" library. Insert standard
disclaimers here: It may be (it IS) buggy. It may not be everything to
everyone. It may be slower than you'd like. However, these are problems
that we have to deal with knowing that in the future they will be
fixed. What this _is_ is a "proof of concept" and a request for
suggestions and improvements. I just wanted to get _something_ into
the hands of Mac VR-heads - tell me if I was too impatient.

The "next generation" of this library is already under way. I will be
rewriting significant portions in 68020 assembly, converting from
floating point to fixed point, adding some features (segments for
sure), and fixing bugs...

If you have any questions, comments, or bugs to report, please e-mail
me.

Thanks!

Jon Blossom
jonbl@microsoft.com

Microsoft disclaimer: This is NOT a Microsoft product, nor is it
endorsed or supported by Microsoft in any way.

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Fri Jun 25 16:22:50 1993
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	id <AA06802>; Fri, 25 Jun 93 16:22:50 -0400
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	id AA08020; Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:25:13 -0600
Message-Id: <9306252025.AA08020@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: OOPS!
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:25:13 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Rather, it's an "experimenter's breadboard."  You can get 'em at Radio Shack

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Fri Jun 25 16:34:31 1993
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	id <AA07056>; Fri, 25 Jun 93 16:34:31 -0400
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	id AA08044; Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:36:56 -0600
Message-Id: <9306252036.AA08044@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: rend386@sunee
Subject: Mailing list blues
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 14:36:56 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Well, geoffrey@tafe.sa.edu.au gave me an important wake-up call.  To
determine how to send replies (public or private), use the "reply"
command and see if it's sending to all original recipients.

				Joshua Shagam

From fdscussi  Tue Jun 29 10:40:58 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA16899>; Tue, 29 Jun 93 10:40:58 -0400
From: Frank Scussion <fdscussi>
Message-Id: <9306291440.AA16899@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: sub
To: rend386-announce
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 10:40:57 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

subscribe rend386-announce


From broehl  Tue Jun 29 11:27:37 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA17983>; Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:27:37 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306291527.AA17983@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New setup for REND386 list
To: rend386-announce
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:27:33 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

In anticipation of an increase in readership (and traffic!) I have now
converted the two rend386 lists over to use the Majordomo mailing-list
software.  (I looked at the "listserv" package, but decided it was too
complex).

This is our first time using the package, so please be patient if there
are any problems.

If you're happy with the way things are, feel free to skip the rest of
this message.

The only difference from what we've been doing up to now is that
all subscription and unsubscription requests should now be sent to
majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca instead of rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
and are of the following form:

      subscribe rend386-announce
      subscribe rend386-discuss

These will add you to the announcement and discussion lists, respectively.
You're probably already on both lists, so you probably shouldn't need to
subscribe.

To unsubscribe to either list, just use "unsubscribe" instead of "subscribe".

If you like, you can also send the following messages to majordomo:

       which
       info rend386-announce
       info rend386-discuss

The 'which' command tells you which of the lists you're on.  The 'info'
commands will mail you a copy of the "welcome to the list" messages.

If you're *really* curious about all this, you can send a 'help' command
to majordomo and it'll mail you back a detailed list of its commands.

You can have multiple commands in one mail message to majordomo.  All the
commands must be in the body of the message, not in the subject line.

Again, please be patient with any problems.  Thanks.



From broehl  Tue Jun 29 11:48:05 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA18532>; Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:48:05 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306291548.AA18532@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: This is a test message
To: rend386-announce
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:48:04 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

(Please ignore... sorry for the inconvenience, we're just
testing Majordomo).

From broehl  Tue Jun 29 11:58:12 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA18754>; Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:58:12 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306291558.AA18754@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: A quick
To: rend386-announce
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:58:11 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

test.


From broehl  Tue Jun 29 12:00:37 1993
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA18835>; Tue, 29 Jun 93 12:00:37 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl>
Message-Id: <9306291600.AA18835@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Yet another test
To: rend386-announce
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 12:00:36 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

One two three four
This should only go to the three test addresses.

From lecates@ucsu.Colorado.EDU  Tue Aug 24 23:25:15 1993
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	id <AA00904>; Tue, 24 Aug 93 23:25:15 -0400
Received: by ucsu.Colorado.EDU id AA21227
  (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4/CNS-2.1 for rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca); Tue, 24 Aug 1993 21:25:05 -0600
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 21:24:49 -0600 (MDT)
From: LE CATES JEFFREY COOK <lecates@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: LE CATES JEFFREY COOK <lecates@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Reply-To: LE CATES JEFFREY COOK <lecates@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Logitech Device
To: rend386@sunee
In-Reply-To: <21941.9308241340@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, Chris Hand wrote:

> Jason Barile said:
> > Has anyone tried out the new Logitech "Cyberman" 6 DOF input device?  I
> > haven't seen a price for it, but are there plans for drivers for Rend386?
> > IT seemed to be fairly nice, with a vibrator built into the handle for
> > feedback.  
> 
> This sounds a lot like the GLOBAL 3-D controller, which is sort of the
> "poor man's spaceball".  It has "binary resolution" (ie. on/off) in
> 6 degrees of freedom as well as a vibrating device programmable to
> 15 intensity levels.  Supposedly GLOBAL are expecting to mass produce
> these for US$100 by Sept/Oct 93.

Chris, please don't take this as a flame, but...

	The Logitech Cyberman is available for US$129. Logitech can be
reached at (800) 231-7717. My info. comes from page 34 of the Sept/Oct
issue of WIRED magazine. It basically repeats Jaso Barille's post.

	According to the August '93 issue of AI EXPERT - The mag of
artificial intelligence in practice - Global Devices' Global 3D Controller
is "A 3D graphics controller that translates full 3D input from the user's
hand to control 3D graphics or move the user through any virtual
environment.  The Global 3D Controller has true
six-degrees-of-freedom function and can translate all possible combinations 
of linear and rotational vectors of the x, y, z-coordinate system.  The
Global 3D Controller includes 32 levels of active tactile feedback within
the handle, which vibrates upon software command."----Price: $249 US

	Global Devices
	6630 Arabian Circle
	Granite Bay, CA  95661

	(916) 791-3533
              791-4358 FAX

***Check out the Virtual Reality Resource Guide in the back of AI Expert
for listings of all available hard & software dealing with VR.The
Virtual Reality Special Report: Spring '93 Edition can be ordered for
$9.95 through AI Expert as well.  Mines on the way.***

				The Blue Stain





From rwebb@panix.com  Wed Aug 25 00:59:04 1993
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From: Russell Webb <rwebb@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199308250458.AA25775@panix.com>
Subject:  Re: New Logitech Device
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Could someone clarify how the Global 3D and Cyberman devices operate?
If the Global unit is 'binary', does this mean there are simple
switches inside the unit that respond to rotation and translation,
without magnitude?  (I'm imagining mercury-like mini-switches,
but maybe this is way off base.)

If this is so, is the Cyberman device any different from the Global
unit?  That is, does it use an external sensor (like infrared or
ultrasonic) to measure position, or is it self-contained?  Self-
containment would be nice (fiddling with the Powerglove ultrasonic
L is pretty contraining), but magnitude would certainly be a big
win (assuming self-contained-ness inhibits this).

ObRend386: I'm very much looking forward to the VRCreations book.
Will the book focus more on the guts of Rend386, or will it be more
along the lines of "here's how to make a data file"?  And what exactly 
is it on the cover?  It looks almost like a red-blue stereo picture 
of a swimmer.  
-- 
-Russell Webb
rwebb@panix.com


rom twisto!bangate.compaq.com!Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@compaq.com  Wed Aug 25 08:28:06 1993
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	(SmailFrom kwas@panix.com  Thu Sep  9 19:01:22 1993
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199309092301.AA20057@panix.com>
Subject: REND386 - how should I...?
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Greetings all - since this is my first time talking on this list (actually
any list :) I'll be polite and introduce myself.  I'm Chris Kwasnicki from
NYC.  During the day I'm a UNIX administrator at a large Wall St. firm. 
I'm very interested in VR because it's cool and I think full immersion VR
can be a great tool in the right situations, and fun in most others.  I've
been a lurker on Compuserve for the past year+, on the nets for the past 3
months.  I've spent this year working on a homebrewed render before
deciding that I was just duplicating work, so I've been working with
REND386 for the last couple of months.

Now that I've wasted bandwidth :) , here comes some questions.  What is
the future trend for REND386 worlds - to be entirely coded using the
animation language (which is pretty good but obviously isn't as
general/efficent(?) as C), or to use some combination of the animation
language and C, or just C?  Should I be thinking about creating worlds via
extending the animation language (new keywords), as against just creating
a new executable?  Would new keywords slow down the system? When is the source
code for V5 becoming available?  

Thanks,

Chris


From kwas@panix.com  Thu Sep  9 19:35:18 1993
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199309092335.AA24549@panix.com>
Subject: REND - How should I...
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Greetings all - since this is my first time talking on this list (actually
any list :) I'll be polite and introduce myself.  I'm Chris Kwasnicki from
NYC.  During the day I'm a UNIX administrator at a large Wall St. firm. 
I'm very interested in VR because it's cool and I think full immersion VR
can be a great tool in the right situations, and fun in most others.  I've
been a lurker on Compuserve for the past year+, on the nets for the past 3
months.  I've spent this year working on a homebrewed render before
deciding that I was just duplicating work, so I've been working with
REND386 for the last couple of months.

Now that I've wasted bandwidth :) , here comes some questions.  What is
the future trend for REND386 worlds - to be entirely coded using the
animation language (which is pretty good but obviously isn't as
general/efficent(?) as C), or to use some combination of the animation
language and C, or just C?  Should I be thinking about creating worlds via
extending the animation language (new keywords), as against just creating
a new executable?  Would new keywords slow down the system? When is the source
code for V5 becoming available?  

Thanks,

Chris


From isdale@well.sf.ca.us  Fri Sep 10 00:57:34 1993
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From: Jerry Isdale <isdale@well.sf.ca.us>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Files uploaded
Message-Id: <93Sep9.215654pdt.14417-3@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Thu, 9 Sep 1993 21:56:52 -0700

I uploaded some files to Sunee this past week. I also sent a previous
announcemtn to this list but havent seen it posted.
The files uploaded include:
jirend.zip: my version of rend V4, with serial code, clean compiling in BC
3.1, and Global Devices controller driver.
eedemo.zip: exe & world showing use of BOB oo-interp language for scripting
ack3d - source code and demo world of a raycasting system. AWESOME!
 freeware source for a  Underworld type rendering package.

Jerry Isdale
 72330.770@compuserve.com
 isdale@well.sf.ca.us

From HELGEU@dhhalden.no  Fri Sep 10 09:24:20 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: HELGE RENE URHOLM <HELGEU@dhhalden.no>
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 15:06:25 +0100
Subject: Sound and rend386?
Priority: normal
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Has anyone made any rend386-programs (with Sega and 
Powerglove support) with sound for soundblaster?
 
Any pointers to any programs, code etc. would be appreciated.
(I need it soon. We have are going to use this at a fair about a week 
from know.)

Email replies to: helgeu@dhhalden.no

From WEIDLINGD@axe.humboldt.edu  Fri Sep 10 19:16:08 1993
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From: WEIDLINGD@axe.humboldt.edu
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
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I wish to subscribe.
Love Stampe's new book.
Dave Weidling

From olebv@dhhalden.no  Fri Sep 10 19:52:33 1993
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From isdale@well.sf.ca.us  Sun Sep 12 11:54:30 1993
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From: Jerry Isdale <isdale@well.sf.ca.us>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: ACK3D and Other Files on Sunee
Message-Id: <93Sep12.085340pdt.14287-3@well.sf.ca.us>
Date: 	Sun, 12 Sep 1993 08:53:38 -0700

The files I uploaded to /pub/incoming on sunee are still there and that
directory is not visible. However, if you know the file names, you can get
them. I have also uploaded these same files to stein.u.washington and Toni
Emerson should be putting them someplace public soon. I dont know when the
Sunee folks will move stuff. 
Anyway, here are the full file names and descriptions, Good Luck!
The file names and descriptions area:

pgpatent.zip
  Zip file of VPL Glove Patent. Contains several GIF files of the images
plus the full text of the patent. From the Compuserve Cyberforum libraries.

jirend.zip
  Jerry Isdale's updated version of Rend386 v4. Zip contains source, docs
and room5.wld. Code compiles w/o warnings under Borland C 3.1, re-organizes
some source directories, adds serial line handling functions and support for
Global Devices 6d Controller. (also hooks for Logitech driver which Dave
Stampe has not released yet).

rendtx.zip
  Joe Gradecki's demo version of Rend386 with TEXTURE MAPPING. A demo only,
and it c r a w l s when showing textures, but it works.

eedemo.zip
  Eric Elliot's demo version of Rend386 with the BOB oo interpretive
scripting language to control object position/orientation. BOB was written
by David Betz of XLISP, XSCHEME fame.

ackdem.zip
 Demo of Lary Meyer's ACK3D graphics engine. Provides raycasting similar to
that used in Ultima Underworld, and other games. Not quite a full game in
itself, but most impressive. (PC 386 required)

ackeng.zip
 Full Source code to Lary Meyer's ACK3D graphics engine. Source is freeware.
Provides raycasting similar to that used in Ultima Underworld, and other
games. 
ackexp.zip      
 Example code using ACK3D. 
 (Lary and others responsible for ACK3D are on CompuServe's Gamers forum.
They dont have Internet FTP access themselves but asked me to post these for
them.)

Virtually Yours,
  Jerry Isdale
  SysOp, CompuServe CyberForum

ps. This mail list barfs back 20-30 bad addresses. I am using my WELL
address to send because I dont see it as often and dont have to pay for
them. If you want to contact me more quickly, use 72330.770@compuserve.com
Maybe someday the list will be cleaned up too. With all the new folks
expected due to the book, it would be nice....

From lefebvre@pbush.com  Mon Sep 13 11:54:05 1993
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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Subject: 256 color support for Turbo C
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 11:08:51 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]


    I was wondering how rend386 uses a color pallette size of 256 when
BGI only supports 16 color 480x640.  How is this accomplished?  Also,
is there any way to get a better resolution than 480x640?  Also, are 
there any other graphics libraries available via ftp or even
by purshase for PC's?  And don't cost ALOT of moola and have better graphics
capabilities than what BGI currently supports?  Does Borland have any
intention of improving their interface?

    Hey guys (Dave and Bernie), I haven't seen your new book around.
What is the exact tittle and what book stores would have it?  I am
eager to check it out.


---
  ___________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |__________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |____________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |______________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |________________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |__________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |____________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|__________(518)452-0927____________|--USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) ***********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com________________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"




From joshuas@aol.com  Mon Sep 13 22:28:20 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 21:43:14 EDT
Subject: Re: 256 color support for Tur...

R386 doesn't use BGI.  If it did, it would take 2-3 seconds to draw each
frame.  (BGI is slow; it makes indirect video calls.)  Instead, it uses
low-level assembly.  In fact, the graphics routines need an assembler to
compile into an .OBJ, which is then linked into the C code.  If you really
needed to use a BGI, I'd look for a custom driver called VGA256.BGI
(available at many places).  I'm not sure how you call custom BGIs in C, but
you can probably see how in the help system.

                         Glad to be of service,
                         Joshua Shagam

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Sep 14 06:39:16 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 13 Sep 1993 16:32:00 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 15:57:38 BST
Message-Id: <27611.9309131457@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Tried a *fast* machine?

I went to see a friend's new PC on Saturday, and we tried REND386
on it.  I was AMAZED.

It's a 486DX2/66 with local bus video and disk controller (0.3ms access...!).

Now I've used REND386 on a 486/50MHz and the performance is OK.  I get
around 5fps in stereo, 10fps in mono when using ROOM5.WLD.

But this local bus machine was something else!  Calculated frame rates
were between 36fps and 126fps!!  Obviously this is slightly academic given
the refresh rate of the monitor, but this sort of speed really does have
been to seen to be appreciated -- it's so smooth!  Especially when using
a joystick (which is a lot faster than using the keyboard BTW).

If you know someone who has a local bus machine, then get REND386 on there
and try it out.  What I'd *really* like to see now is a 640x480x256
video driver, just to see how one of these machines handles it.  I'd cook
one up myself but don't really know my way around a SVGA register set.


Chris

From 71213.2634@CompuServe.COM  Tue Sep 14 10:25:27 1993
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From: JOHN CRAWBUCK <71213.2634@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-request <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: rend386-request
Message-Id: <930914141650_71213.2634_DHQ38-4@CompuServe.COM>

SUBSCRIBE John Crawbuck



From eylerken@u.washington.edu  Tue Sep 14 14:11:29 1993
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From: Ken Eyler <eylerken@u.washington.edu>
Subject: rend386 package
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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where can I get the lastet REND386 + DOCS + extra worlds?

:ken
:eylerken@u.washington.edu




From OLEBV@dhhalden.no  Tue Sep 14 16:16:08 1993
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From: Ole Bredesen-Vestby <OLEBV@dhhalden.no>
Organization: Ostfold College
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1993 21:30:25 +0100
Subject: Making worlds to rend386
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Message-Id: <26F4F5E0D84@sofus.dhhalden.no>

Hi!

I've been looking a little at the rend386 code. As I've understood 
you use the rend386 to read and show the 'worlds' that you make. My 
question is: How do you make the worlds? Are they made by rend386 
or by some other program, or do you have to type them into a text-
file? Are there any easy way I can create a world.

With rend386 there was a demo (demo4) and a world (room5.wld). I'm 
just interested in using the demo, but with my self created world. 

- Ole Bredesen-Vestby

From pulkka@cs.washington.edu  Tue Sep 14 20:49:45 1993
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Reply-To: Aaron Pulkka <pulkka@cs.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: 256 color support for Turbo C
To: Sting <lefebvre@pbush.com>
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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On Mon, 13 Sep 1993, Sting wrote:
>     Hey guys (Dave and Bernie), I haven't seen your new book around.
> What is the exact tittle and what book stores would have it?  I am
> eager to check it out.

Stampe, Dave and Roehl, Bernie and Eagan, John (1993). "Virtual Reality
Creations."  Corte Madera, CA: Waite Group Press. ISBN 1-878739-39-5
[includes Rend386 on a PC-disk].

I saw it at Crown Books, here in Seattle.

   __    __    __    __       _  <pulkka@cs.washington.edu> [mud id: teklon] 
 /__ / /__ / /__ > /   / /\  / HITLab research assistant, ACM chapter treasurer
/   / /   / /  \_ /__ / /  \/ sci.virtual-worlds & rec.arts.cinema co-moderator
graduate student, Computer Science & Engineering, University of Washington, USA


From fburke@samwise.tsd.itg.ti.com  Wed Sep 15 01:22:56 1993
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 93 10:36:34 CDT
From: fburke@samwise.tsd.itg.ti.com (Fred Burke)
Message-Id: <9309141536.AA04433@samwise.tsd.itg.ti.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: mouse/joystick pblm
Reply-To: burke@tsd.itg.ti.com


Yesterday I picked up a copy of the book "Virtual Reality Creations" here in
Austin at Bookstop. Looks like lots of good info in it and I'm looking forward
to reading the whole thing.

Naturally though I wanted to try out the new SW (which I assume is Version 5).
This is the first time I have tried REND386 on my new DX2 66.  It was very
smooth and very fast (minimum FPS was 30, max > 110).  On my old system I only
have a Logitech mouse but in addition to that I now have an Analog Joystick
from Gravis. The mouse in on COM1, IRQ 4 and the joystick is attached the the
SoundBlaster 16ASP game/midi port.

Using the joystick alone works fine but when I pressed 'j' so that I could use
the mouse to select an object to manipulate the world image just started
spinning out of control.  Pressing 'j' stopped the spinning but left it in such
a state that I could not determine how to get the view reoriented properly
again. Has anyone else seen this or is my new Opti motherboard and CPU acting
up? 

Thanks,
-Fred-

Fred Burke                                Texas Instruments, Inc.
                                          Telecom Systems Dept.
					  P.O. Box 149149  M/S 2201
					  Austin, TX 78714-9149
_  __/ ___/ /    ___/ ___/ __ /   \    /  Internet: burke@tsd.itg.ti.com
  /   __/  /    __/  /    /  /  / _/  /   TI MSG:   FBUR
_/  ____/____/____/____/____/__/   __/    Voice:    (512) 250-7459
                                          Fax:      (512) 250-7104

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Wed Sep 15 07:01:04 1993
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Date: 14 Sep 93 20:41:06 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: RE: Tried a *fast* machine?
Message-Id: <930915004106_70233.1552_CHV41-1@CompuServe.COM>

I know someone who tried rend386 on a Pentium.  He said the metal head spun 
around so fast you can't even tell what it is.  So yeah, there needs to be 
a way to load this sucker down with a lot of polygons in the near future.  
640K is not going to cut it.  One way to bog it down would be to store 
texture maps in extended memory, since the textures are often large chuncks 
of memory.  Or go to a 32 bit compiler.  Ah well, wishful thinking for now.

Hey I haven't gotten to see the book yet either, (weren't the contributors 
supposed to get free copies, Bernie?)  But anyway I heard it was good, so 
I'll offer my preliminary congratulations.  Also from what I heard it got a 
pretty prominent position in the bookstore, so hopefully lots of people 
will buy it.  I was pleased to hear that Mitchell Waite enjoyed the solar 
system world so much.  Too bad he didn't mention who created it (myself) 
until much later in the book.

For the system at work I combined the solar system with some stars and the 
"spaceship".  (My "official" version doen't have the spaceship.)  The 
official release also has a more detailed explanation of the solar system 
world, for those who want more information than was in the book.  I have a 
version where I attached sound to each of the planets.  It plays back the 
name of the planet (from a digitized file) in Korean when you touch one!  
(Why Korean? Well, why not!)  This addition to the world took about an hour 
(although I had to code some of the sound "driver").

I have made some new additions to my "personal" version of Rend386, 
including "portals" that destroy the current world and load in a new world, 
without ever leaving the program!  Also I have integrated the BOB language 
in with Rend386 (similar to what Eric Elliot has done) to provide animation 
and INTERACTIVE animation.  So I need to add some more commands to the 
BOB-REND386 and spend some time creating new worlds.  But then I will 
release it.  This will be an extension to the "two glove" version of 
Rend386 that I have put up on the net, so you can see all the source except 
for the Object Glove part (the glove driver).  If anyone wants info on 
Object Glove I'd be happy to forward it.

		-Mark Pflaging



From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Sep 15 09:27:51 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9309151327.AA11844@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: RE: Tried a *fast* machine? (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 9:27:50 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Hey I haven't gotten to see the book yet either, (weren't the contributors 
> supposed to get free copies, Bernie?)

Yes, definitely; I'll check with the publisher.

> But anyway I heard it was good, so 
> I'll offer my preliminary congratulations.

Thanks!  I had a lot of fun writing it, but it took a *long* time.

Congrats on all your good work on adding features to rend386; I'm looking
forward to trying BOB.


From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Sep 15 13:32:32 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 10:32:47 PDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: 256 color support for Turbo C

The book does not mention whether source is on the enclosed
disk.  It only discusses the scripting language.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From kwas@panix.com  Wed Sep 15 14:58:13 1993
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199309151858.AA19104@panix.com>
Subject: Re: 256 color support for Turbo C
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 14:58:07 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <9309151732.AA03279@netcom3.netcom.com> from "Technically Sweet" at Sep 15, 93 10:32:47 am
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> 
> The book does not mention whether source is on the enclosed
> disk.  It only discusses the scripting language.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Lance Norskog
> thinman@netcom.com
> Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.
> 

If you mean source to REND386, no, it's not with VRC.

Chris


From fullfeed!fullfeed.com!pcvr@spool.mu.edu  Wed Sep 15 16:10:35 1993
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	id AA08620; Wed, 15 Sep 93 14:05:05 CDT
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 14:05:05 CDT
From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
Message-Id: <9309151905.AA08620@fullfeed.fullfeed.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1850

PCVR Magazine Presents Issue 11 - Sep/Oct 1993



The theme for Issue 11 is connectivity.  The issue runs 52 pages and includes
the following articles and columns:



ADDING SERIAL ACCESS TO REND386 - Joseph D. Gradecki
  Discusses adding serial port and modem access to REND386 - includes source
  code for a shared environment in REND.

BUILDING CYBERSPACE - Bob Pendleton
  Designing a multi-user cyberspace

CYBERTERM: A TERMINAL INTO CYBERSPACE - Michael Snoswell
  The first in a series of three article describing the theory and design
  behind CYBERTERM

TERRAIN MAPPING WITH REND386 - PART 1 - Chris Hand
  The first of two article on adding terrains to REND386.

BOOK REVIEW - Robin Hollands
  Robins looks at VR Playhouse and Virtual Reality

SOFTWARE REVIEW - John Williamson
  John looks at Vistapro 3.0

VR INSIDER - Brad Burnett
  Brad talks about the impending SEGA HMD

GRAPHICS - Joseph D. Gradecki
  The theory and application of 2D clipping

WORKING WITH REND386 - Joseph D. Gradecki
  Joe's last REND column talks about collision detection with REND.  This column
  will have a new writer starting with Issue 12

CONFERENCE REPORT - Staff
  A look at Meckler's VR 93 and the SIGGRAPH conference.

IN THE INDUSTRY - Tom Hayward
  A new column discussing what's happening in the VR industry

THE DISK - Staff
  What's on the enclosed disk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch as PCVR Magazine grows.  Expanded coverage with our all new 64 page
issues starting with issue 12 - Nov/Dec 1993.

We can be contacted at:                 PCVR
                                        PO Box 475
                                        Stoughton, WI  53589
                                        (608) 877 - 0909 tel/fax

                                        email: PCVR@FULLFEED.COM



From fullfeed!fullfeed.com!pcvr@spool.mu.edu  Wed Sep 15 16:26:11 1993
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	id AA08693; Wed, 15 Sep 93 14:05:27 CDT
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 14:05:27 CDT
From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
Message-Id: <9309151905.AA08693@fullfeed.fullfeed.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1850

PCVR Magazine Presents Issue 11 - Sep/Oct 1993



The theme for Issue 11 is connectivity.  The issue runs 52 pages and includes
the following articles and columns:



ADDING SERIAL ACCESS TO REND386 - Joseph D. Gradecki
  Discusses adding serial port and modem access to REND386 - includes source
  code for a shared environment in REND.

BUILDING CYBERSPACE - Bob Pendleton
  Designing a multi-user cyberspace

CYBERTERM: A TERMINAL INTO CYBERSPACE - Michael Snoswell
  The first in a series of three article describing the theory and design
  behind CYBERTERM

TERRAIN MAPPING WITH REND386 - PART 1 - Chris Hand
  The first of two article on adding terrains to REND386.

BOOK REVIEW - Robin Hollands
  Robins looks at VR Playhouse and Virtual Reality

SOFTWARE REVIEW - John Williamson
  John looks at Vistapro 3.0

VR INSIDER - Brad Burnett
  Brad talks about the impending SEGA HMD

GRAPHICS - Joseph D. Gradecki
  The theory and application of 2D clipping

WORKING WITH REND386 - Joseph D. Gradecki
  Joe's last REND column talks about collision detection with REND.  This column
  will have a new writer starting with Issue 12

CONFERENCE REPORT - Staff
  A look at Meckler's VR 93 and the SIGGRAPH conference.

IN THE INDUSTRY - Tom Hayward
  A new column discussing what's happening in the VR industry

THE DISK - Staff
  What's on the enclosed disk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch as PCVR Magazine grows.  Expanded coverage with our all new 64 page
issues starting with issue 12 - Nov/Dec 1993.

We can be contacted at:                 PCVR
                                        PO Box 475
                                        Stoughton, WI  53589
                                        (608) 877 - 0909 tel/fax

                                        email: PCVR@FULLFEED.COM



From lefebvre@pbush.com  Wed Sep 15 17:31:22 1993
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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Message-Id: <9309152041.AA12607@pbush.com>
Subject: VRASP
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 Mailling List)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 93 16:41:06 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Hey rend386-ers,


      Does anyone have the address to VRASP or is anyone out there
in/from VRASP?  I wanted to get some more power gloves and interfaces.
Any info would be cool.


      	      	      	      	      	      	  Happy Hacking,

---
  __________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|__________(518)452-0927____________|-USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com_______________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"


From drew@vnet.IBM.COM  Wed Sep 15 21:31:40 1993
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Subject: unsubscribe


From lefebvre@pbush.com  Thu Sep 16 14:51:26 1993
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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Subject: Dual Gloves and Connector from VRASP
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 Mailling List)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 93 14:25:39 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]


    Has anyone out there used the Dual glove and connectors from
VRASP?  If so,  how did they perform?  Also, how does the connector
connect to the pc?  Is it through the printer port or is a serial
connector?  Has Anyone use the Object Glove libraries?  Are they easy
to integrate into C graphics programs.  Are they dependant on the BGI
library or can it be used with MS-C/C++ and its libraries?  

    Thanks for the info guys/gals/etc....

---
  __________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|__________(518)452-0927____________|-USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com_______________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"

From weinberg@yu1.yu.edu  Sun Sep 19 09:44:39 1993
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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 09:38:22 +22305714 (EDT)
From: Steven Weinberger <weinberg@yu1.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dual Gloves and Connector from VRASP
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9309161825.AA14202@pbush.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9309190919.C28393-a100000@yu1.yu.edu>
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On Thu, 16 Sep 1993, Sting wrote:

> 
>     Has anyone out there used the Dual glove and connectors from
> VRASP?  If so,  how did they perform?  Also, how does the connector
> connect to the pc?  Is it through the printer port or is a serial
> connector?  

Well, I'm using two gloves on my PC with their instructions available in
the objglv.exe file available here, and they work like a charm! I haven't
started REALLY working with them yet, but they work great. Just need to
connect a couple more wires to the printer port, no biggie. and I would
like to know if any one in using the objectglove libraries, anyone?

					Reach out and touch someone,
					(virtually, of course!)
					Steven Weinberger



From bboeke@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  Mon Sep 20 17:36:09 1993
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From: The game is upon us <bboeke@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199309202136.AA02027@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Subscribe
Content-Length: 358

I wish to subscribe to the rend386 mailing list...
I also had some questions about rend386...
Such as, why does it freeze up whenever I get a windoed message(i.e. No object
is selected!)
Every time I get this message, or messages like it, the computer freezes.
It's very frustrating...
Please respond, or could you refer me to someone who can help???
Thanks

From bjackson@CS.Stanford.EDU  Mon Sep 20 21:16:19 1993
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Message-Id: <9309210103.AA13596@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: bjackson@CS.Stanford.EDU (Bernie G. Jackson)
X-Sender: bjackson@xenon (Unverified)
Subject: Child limit in rend386?

Quick question for anyone:

I'm trying to draw an object in which the root segment has a child
which has a child which has a child ... and it goes down six levels.
I can't get a .fig file to work past four levels.  Is this a built-in
limit in rend386?  I'm using version 3.  If this is a built-in limit,
do later versions have more capacity?



/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\
|  Bernie Jackson  bjackson@xenon.stanford.edu  (408)241-7877 |
\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/-\_/


From SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au  Tue Sep 21 03:35:47 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 16:29:09 +0930 (CST)
From: Gavin <SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <930921162909.17dc@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: Textures in rend386?

Hi all, I'm new to this list, and to animation in general, so please forgive my 
ignorance. 

Is it possible to map a bitmap onto a polygon surface with rend386 ? Also are 
there other examples of what rend386 can do other than those at sunee.uwaterloo?

All help appreciated.
Gavin.


From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Sep 21 09:34:56 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9309211334.AA20155@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Textures in rend386? (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 9:34:56 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au Tue Sep 21 03:37:50 1993
> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 16:29:09 +0930 (CST)
> From: Gavin <SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
> To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> Subject: Textures in rend386?
> 
> Is it possible to map a bitmap onto a polygon surface with rend386 ?

Not yet, but there are plans to put it in Version 6.  Be forewarned, though;
texture mapping will slow things down a lot.

From knights@gov.on.ca  Tue Sep 21 10:54:55 1993
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From: knights@gov.on.ca (Shawn Knight)
Message-Id: <9309211457.AA22177@govonca.gov.on.ca>
Subject: Where is the sources for version 5?
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 10:57:52 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Okay, this is the moment I've been waiting for for almost a a year!  The
Waite book is out, where are the new sources to Rend386 version 5?

-- 

From studer@bnr.ca  Tue Sep 21 11:40:59 1993
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Please unsubscribe me from this list.  Thank you.

These opinions are all                      Brian                 _ /  __/  _ /
mine and you can't have               ( studer@bnr.ca )          / / __ / __ /
any.  So there!                 ( bcwhite@sunee.uwaterloo.ca ) ___/ ___/ ___/
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 The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than in practice.

From studer@bnr.ca  Tue Sep 21 11:45:12 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:  Unsubscribe 

Please unsubscribe me from this list.  Thank you.

These opinions are all                      Brian                 _ /  __/  _ /
mine and you can't have               ( studer@bnr.ca )          / / __ / __ /
any.  So there!                 ( bcwhite@sunee.uwaterloo.ca ) ___/ ___/ ___/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than in practice.

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Tue Sep 21 14:26:29 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: V5
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 12:06:59 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

What's new in R386v5 that isn't in v4?  Like, does it do animation,
etc?  (This would be helpful for me as I have always wanted to do some
VR multimedia presentations, etc.)

Also, what's the address for FTPmail?  And, is there Pascal or C source
for UUdecode so that I can decode it on my non-network 486 without
using (ugh) Kermit?

                    Joshua Shagam

From SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au  Wed Sep 22 04:43:43 1993
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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 17:38:25 +0930 (CST)
From: Gavin <SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <930922173825.29d6@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Textures in rend386?

Chris,
Excuse my ignorance but could you more closely define the following terms and 
what I should do to get to them:

>PCVR

>"Virtual Reality Creations", which contains an assortment of worlds.


From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Sep 22 08:23:01 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9309221223.AA11353@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Textures in rend386? (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 8:23:00 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From: Gavin <SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 17:38:25 +0930 (CST)
> To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> 
> Excuse my ignorance but could you more closely define the following terms and 
> what I should do to get to them:
> 
> >PCVR

PCVR is a newsletter/magazine published by Joe Gradecki.  Its focus is on
"homebrew" VR; things like building your own HMD, how to create objects for
virtual worlds, etc.  It's quite good; if Joe is reading this, he may want
to post his current mailing address (I'm at home and the information's not).
 
> >"Virtual Reality Creations", which contains an assortment of worlds.

Virtual Reality Creations is the new book that was just published a couple
of weeks ago.  It should be available at any major bookstore.  It was written
by myself, Dave Stampe and John Eagan, and contains the latest version of
rend386 along with a number of sample worlds contributed by a variety of
people on the net.

From OLEBV@dhhalden.no  Wed Sep 22 17:54:06 1993
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From: Ole Bredesen-Vestby <OLEBV@dhhalden.no>
Organization: Ostfold College
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 22:52:45 +0100
Subject: Setting up the SEGA-glasses
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Message-Id: <3861648A9@sofus.dhhalden.no>

Hi!

I've got problems setting up my SEGA glasses.
The rend386.cfg uses 'segaport 3fc 3 3 1 0 0', but this makes the left 
display on the glasses go too dark and not flicking.

Does anybody know what configuration i should use, and what the 
different numbers represent?

BTW, does v5.0 support sound (.wav files)?

Thanks,
-Ole

From wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com  Thu Sep 23 07:32:07 1993
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From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com>
X-To: "rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: What's new?

Hi,

        I've been out of the loop here for a while, so I was wondering if
some kind soul could summarize what the latest version of Rend386 is
and where it is available.  I have v4.0 currently.  Thanks!


-Sean

(wall@taurus.dnet.ge.com)


From lefebvre@pbush.com  Thu Sep 23 18:55:25 1993
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Subject: Graphics Survey
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 Mailling List)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 14:11:58 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Hello rend386-ers,

    I have a couple of questions that I need input for.  Could you
guys/gals tell me what you would expect a full featured 3d-object editor to
have as its functions?  And what file types would you like it to write
out?  Give me your wish list.

    Also, in a full featured virtual-world navigator type program what
features would you expect/want?  Also, are their standard world file
formats for VR?  If so what are they?  Again. give me your wish list.


    BTW, Bernie - Dave,  nice job on v5.  I got the book the other day
and I really like the new features in the latest release.  I can't
wait to get my grubby hands on the source!  [;^)

      	      	      	      	      	    Happy Hacking,


---
  __________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|__________(518)452-0927____________|-USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com_______________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"

From millere@student.msu.edu  Thu Sep 23 19:45:33 1993
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subscribe



From underdog!SHULMAN@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za  Fri Sep 24 05:32:13 1993
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From: "Steve Shulman" <SHULMAN@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date:          Fri, 24 Sep 1993 11:26:29 SAT
Subject:       Class library for PowerGlove
Cc: SHAPIRO@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za, SHULMAN@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     PMail v3.0 (R1)

Hi there

I was wondering if anyone has implemented the glove.c, glove.h etc 
files as a C++ class library. I want to write some C++ routines for 
REND386 using Object Oriented techniques and it would really be a 
help if I could get the glove routines already written as a class.

Any information will be greatly appreaicated.

Thanks in advance  :)
Steve.

ps. When will V5 of REND386 be available on ftp ?

From 71213.2634@CompuServe.COM  Fri Sep 24 05:54:06 1993
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Date: 24 Sep 93 05:51:15 EDT
From: JOHN CRAWBUCK <71213.2634@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
Message-Id: <930924095115_71213.2634_DHQ36-1@CompuServe.COM>

Please sign me up to your rend386 mailing list.



From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Sep 24 09:49:42 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9309241349.AA19896@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Graphics Survey (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 9:49:42 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From lefebvre@pbush.com Thu Sep 23 18:59:05 1993

> Also, are there standard world file formats for VR?

Some standards are slowly emerging.  The main polygon-based formats that I'm
familiar with are:

     DXF  (Autodesk; tends to have lots of different "flavors", so DXF-readers
          usually only support various subsets; 3DLINE and 3DFACE primitives
          are pretty safe bets, though.)

     3DS  (Autodesk 3D Studio; pretty straightforward, but only supports
          triangles)

     PLG  (REND386; simple, easy-to-parse)

     NFF  (Sense8 WTK; a nice simple polygonal format, sort of like PLG)

     OFF  (nice general-purpose format, but keeps several different files
          for each object; more extensible than the other formats)

Those are the major ones, as far as I know.  There are lots of others, of
course...

In general, the simpler the format is the better I like it.  Extensibility
is a plus, too.  Oh, here's another suggestion: let your object editor
read and write one format, and use separate conversion programs to handle
the others.  The advantages are:

         - easy to add support for additional formats
         - no need for lots of extra code in the object editor
         - converters are useful by themselves, with or without the editor

>     BTW, Bernie - Dave,  nice job on v5.

Thanks!

> I really like the new features in the latest release.  I can't
> wait to get my grubby hands on the source!  [;^)

I should have it online this weekend.


From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Fri Sep 24 11:54:17 1993
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Date: 24 Sep 93 11:48:07 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Class Library for Power Glove
Message-Id: <930924154806_70233.1552_CHV81-1@CompuServe.COM>

Steve Shulman wrote,

"I was wondering if anyone has implemented the glove.c, glove.h etc 
files as a C++ class library. I want to write some C++ routines for 
REND386 using Object Oriented techniques and it would really be a 
help if I could get the glove routines already written as a class."

Gee what a coincedence!  This was accomplished months ago, and
includes a very robust gesture recognition system.  It also has
support for two power gloves on 1 PC, and support for windows.
See below for more info.

Also I am working on a "new" (BEYOND version 5) rend386 that
has the following features:  SoundBlaster  supprt, an object oriented
animation / control language, a true event-driven input system
(no more modal loops!), the ability to dynamically kill worlds and
load in new ones, and continuing support of dual gloves.  I'm not
sure exactly when this will be done because I have a lot of
demands on my time, but certainly within a month.


Object Glove is an object oriented driver for Mattel's Nintendo
Power Glove connected to the parallel port of a PC.  It is written
in C++ for Borland C++ 3.1.  The code has many features that make
it accessible, extensible, and easy to incorporate into existing
applications.  First, it runs on a wide variety of PCs, from '286s
to '486s, without modification.  Second, it is interrupt driven,
which means the sampling takes place at regular intervals without
requiring any attention from the application program.  Thirdly, the
programming interface is extremely simple.  Since the program is
object oriented, any future improvements to the driver would be
transparent to the applications that use it.  More advanced
processing of the glove input can be handled by deriving classes
from the main driver class.  Lastly, the code is Windows compatible.

Object Glove supports the simultaneous use of two gloves.  (Support
for more gloves is possible but not planned.)  Object Glove is the
only publicly available product with this capability.

There are several programs that make use of Object Glove.  Included
is a demo program that displays a line drawing of a hand.  The hand
moves around on the screen based on the movements of the Power
Glove.  There are two versions of the demo program, one for DOS and
one for Windows.  In the DOS version, user definable gestures are
displayed on the screen when they are recognized.  In the Windows
version, gesture recognition  can be associated with system sounds.
These sounds are played through the Windows 3.1 Multimedia
Interface, thus the sounds are also user-definable.  Also, a version
of Rend386 has been included that utilizes Object Glove.  Rend386 is
a freeware ``virtual reality'' program that allows navigation though
a three dimensional world.  Rend386 is customizable and allows the
creation of new virtual worlds.  Rend386 was written by Dave Stampe
and Bernie Roehl.

Court Jesture, supplied with Object Glove, is a gesture recognition
system.  It operates in real time, allows definition of gestures by
the end user, and dispenses the gestures selectively to application
objects in an object-oriented way.  Gestures can be grouped into
``sets'' and gesture sets can be activated and deactivated
dynamically by the application.  When two gloves are used, each
glove can have separate gesture sets or the same gesture sets.  As
with Object Glove, it works under DOS and Windows and has been
combined with Rend386.


	Summary of features:
	- Object Oriented C++
	- Access one or two Power Gloves on one PC parallel port
	- Works under DOS and Windows, and with Rend386
	- Features gesture recognition
	- Comes with several sample applications
	- Available as a library or as source code
	- Includes over 60 pages of printed documentation
	- Low cost with no runtime fee, multi-user packs available


This product is available through VRASP, the Virtual Reality
Alliance of Students and Professionals.  VRASP also has Power
Gloves, PC-to-Power Glove connectors, and other low-cost
Virtual Reality items for sale.   VRASP is a non-profit, educational
organization devised to increase public knowledge of virtual
reality and further the development of VR technology.  Membership
in VRASP includes six issues of our popular newsletter Pix-Elation,
containing a wealth of "inside" VR information and insightful
articles.


Please reply to this messsage for more information.

A comprehensive demo program is available on the Internet.  The
demo includes DOS and Windows executables, and a version of
Rend386 that supports two gloves and gesture recognition.
You can use glove gestures to fly around in worlds.  The demo
also includes a Windows program to move the "mouse" cursor with
a glove.  Instructions for building a one or two glove connector
are included.  Some sample source code is included, but in order
to fully compile the demo programs you need to buy the library.
To get the demo program, anonymous FTP as follows:
Host name: sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Directory: /pub/glove
File name:  objglv.exe
The file is a self-extracting archive.  It is advisable to
transfer this file in the evening when net traffic is low.
Make sure to use BINARY mode!


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\   
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |
 The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals___________







From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Fri Sep 24 14:10:45 1993
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To: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 Mailling List),
        joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Graphics Survey 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Sep 93 14:11:58 EDT."
             <9309231812.AA05681@pbush.com> 
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 12:12:55 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

I personally wuld like the following formats:  .plg, .wld, .fig, .off,
.dxf, .pov/.inc (POVRay), .dwg, etc.

Functions could be the following:

Primitives
single-poly edit
Preview rendering (for .pov)
CSG solids (union, intersection, inverse, etc)
Polynomial curve-fitting (Quadrics, quartics, etc.)
What else is there?

For a VR navigator:

Maybe an overhead view?
Support for HMDs, gloves, SpaceBalls, etc.
Texture-mapping (good luck on that one!)
Sound (events, 3d-sound, drivers for SB, SBPro, Pro 16, Pro 16 ASP,
ProAudio Spectrum 16, etc.)
Boundary-checking, terrains, etc (like move slower through mud or can't
move through bricks, etc.)
At least 15fps (not necessarily with texture-mapping, of course)
Maybe a run-time, interactive object editor (like VRS 2.0, only one that works!)
Whatever else is there (i.e. things I haven't seen in R386 5.0 yet)

I'm very picky about these things.

					Sincerely,
					Joshua Shagam

From KJELLJF@dhhalden.no  Fri Sep 24 14:30:53 1993
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From: KJELLJF <KJELLJF@dhhalden.no>
Organization: Ostfold College
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 20:30:08 +0100
Subject: More worlds..
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Message-Id: <B0AF82FBB@sofus.dhhalden.no>

We finally got both our gloves up and running (BIG fun!). Now I wonder 
if there are any worlds or applications out there especially designed 
for two gloves interaction. 

We did not get v5 to work with two gloves, is this my fault or 
doesn't v5 support two gloves?

Thanks.

KJF 


From DEMORAIS@VORTEX.UFRGS.BR  Fri Sep 24 19:44:26 1993
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From YCHEW@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu  Sat Sep 25 01:38:10 1993
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From: YCHEW@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Hi,
   I would like to be on your mailing list.

From dottow@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU  Sat Sep 25 13:36:34 1993
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From: dottow@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU (**********)
Message-Id: <9309251722.AA24517@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU>
To: 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Class Library for Power Glove

Hi, I hope someone can help me with this...could you please tell me
how I can subscribe to VRASP (If subscription IS possible)
I'm a student studying Computer Science and Art and I really hope to build
a career in the field of VR.
Anyways, please let me know if you happen to know whom I may contact
for more information.

Thank you very much,

dottow@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Sat Sep 25 20:54:01 1993
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Date: 25 Sep 93 20:51:41 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: VRASP Info
Message-Id: <930926005141_70233.1552_CHV51-2@CompuServe.COM>

dottow@sdcc13.ucsd.edu wrote, "Hi, I hope someone can help me with 
this...could you please tell me how I can subscribe to VRASP (If 
subscription IS possible)"

Subscription / Membership: Six issues of Pix-Elation:  $30 inside US or 
Canada, $38 other countries.  Active members of the organization will 
receive and recognition and other rewards.

Send dues to:

VRASP c/o Karin August P. O. Box 4139 Highland Park, NJ  08904-4139 USA

Karin's Internet email is kaugust@caip.rutgers.edu



Thanks for your interest!



From u8902442@cs.uow.edu.au  Tue Sep 28 01:15:38 1993
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From: Damien Timothy Kerr <u8902442@cs.uow.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199309280515.AA19833@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au>
Subject: Compiling Problems
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 15:15:19 +1000 (EST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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A plea for HELP!!

I'm having a lot of trouble compiling with the REND386 
Devel4 sources. I AM using Borland TURBO C++. I'm
trying to re-compile the demo4.c code for starters,
and all the include directories are OK. The problem
occurs during the linking. I think its something to do
with the assembler code for the glove, etc.
 Could some kind soul please outline step by step what
should be done to compile demo4.c from scratch?

		Many THANX.  Damien

From pk1!pk.com!jay@netcom.com  Tue Sep 28 02:52:10 1993
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From: jay@pk.com (Jay Klicman)
Message-Id: <9309271559.AA15818@pk.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Virtual Reality Creations & rend386

	I recently bought a copy of your book Virtual Reality Creations and
downloaded the source to rend386 from sunee.uwaterloo.ca. After compiling I
found that the resulting program demo4.exe didn't have all of the features
that rend386.exe from the book had. Could you please tell me where I can find
the latest version of the source.

Thanks, James Klicman

jay@pk.com

From 100271.107@CompuServe.COM  Tue Sep 28 16:18:36 1993
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From: Dovber Uhrmasher <100271.107@CompuServe.COM>
To: n <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <930928195951_100271.107_BHB53-3@CompuServe.COM>

subscribe dovber uhrmasher

From lefebvre@pbush.com  Tue Sep 28 17:00:58 1993
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Subject: Spec on plg files.
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 Mailling List)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 93 11:28:14 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]


    Hey all, could someone mail me the spec on PLG files.  

      	Thanks a bundle....


      	      	      	      	      	      	  Marc Lefebvre

      	      	      	      	      	      	  lefebvre@pbush.com


From kwas@panix.com  Wed Sep 29 00:23:42 1993
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199309290423.AA22426@panix.com>
Subject: REND386 EXE size
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1993 00:23:31 -0400 (EDT)
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I've downloaded the DEVEL5.ZIP stuff (thanks Bernie&Dave) and when I
compiled it using BC 3.1 I got a .exe of 330K compared to the 221K .exe
that came with VRC.  The only changes I made were the option pointing to
the correct location of the include and lib files?

Is this okay?

Chris


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Sep 29 16:39:17 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <12232.9309292002@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Wither Wendell...?
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 21:02:19 BST
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
X-Phone-Number: +44 533 551551 ext. 8476
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

I've been trying to contact Wendell Joost, but the e-mail address
given in Virtual Reality Creations seems to be out of date
(wendellj@microsoft.com).

Are you out there, Wendell?  Anyone know his whereabouts?

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          Voice: +44 533 551551 x8476
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  FIDOnet: 2:440/32.50
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Reality is 80 Million polygons/second <<

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Sep 29 17:14:50 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9309292114.AA05532@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Wither Wendell...? (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 17:14:50 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
> I've been trying to contact Wendell Joost, but the e-mail address
> given in Virtual Reality Creations seems to be out of date
> (wendellj@microsoft.com).

The latest one I have for him is wendellj@quick.com (which I believe is
still correct).

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Sep 29 17:40:00 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 22:39:36 BST
Message-Id: <13225.9309292139@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: MIDI and REND386

Now that REND386 V5.0 is out (isn't the animation stuff great!),
I'm finally making a start on implementing MIDI support (possibly
some sort of soundcard support too).

I *do* have a simple set-up working (a new "sendmidi" command you
can use in animations), but the PD code I borrowed to drive the
MPU-401 interface uses "busy waiting", which seriously messes up
the more complex animations.  So I need to use an interrupt-based
scheme instead.

So: does anyone know where I can find a nicely-written piece of
code in C that implements interrupt-based MIDI comms?  I *could*
re-write the IBMCOM stuff that most people seem to be using
(MPU-401 is effectively a UART when in "dumb" mode), but I'd rather
follow the path of least resistance and use some ready-written code.

A local BBS here in England has some files called MPUINT.ZIP and
MPUPRO.ZIP in its PC-MIDI area, but I can't download them unless
I subscribe to the BBS (10 quid) and I'm not *that* desparate (yet!).

Thanks for any pointers,

Chris
cph@dmu.ac.uk

From crimp@microsoft.com  Wed Sep 29 18:24:46 1993
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From: Christopher Rimple <crimp@microsoft.com>
To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk, netmail!rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 93 15:11:31 PST
Subject: RE: Wither Wendell...?
Cc: jonbl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, reality@microsoft.com

Wendell left Microsoft a couple months ago.  The best address to reach 
him now is:

  wendellj@fubar.ocean.washington.edu

---------------------------------------------------------------
 Christopher Rimple    | crimp@microsoft.com  | One bad sector
 One Microsoft Way     | 206-936-5900 (voice) |    can ruin
 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | 206-936-7329 (fax)   | your whole day
---------------------------------------------------------------
 The views expressed in this message are my own and in no way
 reflect the views of Microsoft Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From joshuas@aol.com  Thu Sep 30 00:16:00 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 00:14:17 EDT
Subject: Making .RVDs

Does anybody know how to create RVDs?  (You know, video drivers...)  I want
to try to make one for my SpeedStar Pro, possibly even a TrueColor version! 
(640x480x16.7M on my SSP is faster than 640x480x16 on standard VGA. 
Actually, faster than 320x200x256 on std VGA as well.)  A TrueColor version
would be nice because there would be a palette of 65536 colors each with 256
shades!  (Now if there were only a decent-speed texture-mapping algorithm
which didn't require an SGi Opal...)

                                        Tnx in advance,
                                        Joshua Shagam

From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Thu Sep 30 10:08:10 1993
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From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <2c.5904.229.0CB1BFDE@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 07:50:00 +0000
Organization: Medical Informations



I am in need of some info.  What I want to do is be able to load a world
into rend, be able to click the mouse cursor on the object and it pop up
the name of the object.

Here is the problem.  When you load a world into rend how do you get the
name of the objects you loaded?  for example here is a statement in a
world file:

object mine=block 1,1,1 0,0,0 1000....

So does rend load in "mine" as the name or what?? and how do I get rend
to spit it out?  If you can get rend to highlight objects with a click
you must be able to get it to give the name of the object.


Thanks!!


Todd Porter

BTW:  Is version 5 code on sunee yet??  where at I can't ftp so I will
have to use a remailer.

---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Thu Sep 30 11:59:04 1993
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Date: 30 Sep 93 11:53:02 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: RE: Making .RVDs
Message-Id: <930930155302_72662.410_CHN95-2@CompuServe.COM>

Joshua Shagam writes: Does anybody know how to create RVDs?  
  There is an older file called drkit.zip on sunee that was for creating
various plug in drivers. However! Making Rend work with anything other than the
built in video modes is NOT EASY. V5 might be better, but there were a LOT of
places deep inside Rend that assumed you were working in 320x200 ModeX. I know
a couple people who have made complete new versions of Rend-V4 to work with
some other boards, like the ATI and some 34020 cards. 
  Joe Gradecki of PCVR has also done some texture mapping in rend. It isnt fast
but it works. He is working on some speedups. The code for Joe's version (V4
based) may be on sunee, but is definately on ftp.u.washington.edu in the
virtual-worlds/cheap-vr directory, along with several other versions of Rend
that have not made it to the public areas of Sunee. (EEdemo.zip - rend+BOB
language)

Jerry Isdale

(new account number! Now I dont care if this list does bounce back 20-30 bad
email addresses per send.)

From hadley@atc.boeing.com  Thu Sep 30 14:43:42 1993
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From: hadley@atc.boeing.com
X-Sender: hadley@grace

subscribe


From gf00117@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu  Thu Sep 30 17:24:57 1993
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From: gf00117@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Message-Id: <199309302116.AA22681@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe

Please send me more info on rend386
                   thanks
                 Darryl Allphin

From thinman@netcom.com  Thu Sep 30 17:26:08 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 14:03:00 PDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: MIDI and REND386

There's something called the CMU music kit, I think.
It has source for DOS MPU-401 cards.

MPU-401 is only MIDI.  The big selling sound cards
for PCs do sound sampling and FM synthesis as well.
The one to use (in my opinion) is the Gravis Ultrasound.

The GUS can load up any number of sound samples into 1 Meg.
It can play back 32 sounds at once in mono or 16 in stereo.
It does all mixdown, and will pitch-bend and pan-pot any sound
or all with individual controls.  You can get a DOS program
that will preprocess a sound sample into 8 samples from horizontal
and vertical directions, and a DOS library that knows how to
interpolate these into one sound channel with full 3D placement.
This software comes from Focal Point, the Beachtron folks.
Using anything else for PC sound is just a waste of time.
I think.  

The FTP site for GUS software is klingon.epas.utoronto.ca.
The official software development kit from Gravis is
archived there, and the manual is a separate PostScript file.

Gravis is being slow about delivering nifty add-ons, like
stereo sampling and CD-ROM control.  I think there's a
MIDI box for it.  But these are not important; GUS is just
wonderful for PC-based VR.  Nothing comes close.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From joseph@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Sep 30 18:57:22 1993
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Return-Receipt-To: joseph@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

unsubscribe

From boeren@sg4.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Thu Sep 30 23:59:35 1993
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From: boeren@sg4.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9310010355.AA07156@sg4.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

More about the GUS:

The free toolkit is fairly good, although it COULD stand to be updated.
Here in Orlando we are using it to get sound in VR environments running under
Sense8 Worldtoolkit.  We use 2 486/50s rendering right/left eyes.  However,
the GUS toolkit dos not get along well with 32 bit DOS-extender likers.
Instead, we run a serial cable across the room to an older 386sx that we use
as a sound server.  It holds sonuds and takes commands over the serial port to
load, play, loop, etc the sound files contained over there.  All commands are
a few bytes long, so there is not really ANY performance impact.  Actually,
we have an entire remotely run windowing system so we can display debuggin
info or performance metrics there if we needed to.  However, that much I/O over
the COMM port does make a difference, so we generally only use it for sounds.
It works well though.  I wrote all the remote window system code including the sound controls.  If anyone wants to know more about it let me know.  I'd be
happy to hlp out anyone who wants to use the UGS (remotely or not) to
spice up their VR spps.


From 71214.3426@CompuServe.COM  Fri Oct  1 00:47:24 1993
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Date: 01 Oct 93 00:44:26 EDT
From: Richard Williams <71214.3426@CompuServe.COM>
To: major domo <majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Cc: rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: STOP! UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-Id: <931001044425_71214.3426_DHQ80-1@CompuServe.COM>

Please take me off ALL of your subscription lists.

From geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Oct  1 04:42:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1993 20:46:50 +1200
From: geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Re: GUS and VR
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <9310010846.AA29735@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz>
X-Envelope-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


David -

(My personal mail to you bounced for some funny reason, so I'm
posting to the mailing list).

I've just got a GUS recently, with the intention of using it for VR. I'd be
interested to hear more about your setup, as I am intending to use Sense8's
system, probably the Mercury first then upgrade to the full version at a
later date.

How well does your system work? Do you use the 3D GUS stuff (fp3d I think),
or are you using a program you've written?

Looking forward to hearing from you,


Geoff Thomas			geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz
Computer Science Dept.
University of Canterbury
Private Bag				+-------+
Christchurch				| Oook! |
New Zealand				+-------+



From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Oct  1 13:15:04 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:15:29 PDT
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: david boeren

Your return address doesn't work.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From underdog!SHAPIRO@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za  Mon Oct  4 04:20:43 1993
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From: "Jonathan Shapiro" <SHAPIRO@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date:          Sun, 3 Oct 1993 12:21:06 SAT
Subject:       Help with PowerGlove Modes
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     PMail v3.0 (R1)

Hi There,

I wonder if anyone can help me with a problem I have with the Mattel 
PowerGlove.

I am interfacing the glove to the PC (through the parallel port), and 
am writing a program that uses the glove. The problem I have is that 
the glove goes into strange "modes" every now and again, and just 
hangs. I fiddle around with the keys on the glove keypad for a while 
and it seems to come right - sometimes.

Is there anyone out there who actually understands the effect that 
the different keys on the glove keypad have on the glove's operation 
when it is connected to the PC. Also, what is the default mode that 
the glove is set to when the PC is switched on.

It is not just my program that is the problem - this happens with the 
rend386 demo program as well.

If anyone can help, please mail me, as this is really becoming a 
problem - often I don't know whether it is the glove or my program 
that is the problem.

Thanks

Jonathan Shapiro



---------------------------------------------------------------------

    _/_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/     Jonathan Craig Shapiro
       _/      _/         _/            Wits University
      _/      _/         _/_/_/_/       Electrical Engineering
 _/  _/      _/               _/
_/_/_/      _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/         shapiro@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za






From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Mon Oct  4 11:41:05 1993
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Date: 04 Oct 93 11:22:18 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-list <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Devel5 exe size??
Message-Id: <931004152218_72662.410_CHN85-2@CompuServe.COM>

 This past weekend I compiled devel5 both with the IDE and with Make. The
makefile required some tweaking to get the directory paths correct, but it
works. Still produces a lot of Warnings, but glad to see many functions now
have prototypes!
 One disturbing thing to me, is that while both my compiled version and the
book version claim to be of 5/9/93, mine is 365Kb and the book version is only
212Kb. DAVE: what did you add? i see the logitech tracker stuff is in the
devel5, but that shouldnt make it grow by 140K!

 This week I try to get the Global Dev Controller code working plus my PGSI. I
grabbed a couple PGSI files from sunee. The pgsi5.zip looks like only an
executable version of rend V4. Why the '5' designation? pgsisega.zip is Charlie
Lindahl's sega replacement for V4. How many others are working on hooking it
into V5? 
 I am demo'ng Rend and some other stuff at Mike Heim's VRSIG this friday. I
hope to have some of the newest stuff to show (PGSI, GDC, Logitech, etc). I'll
also have an update of WhatIsVR to distribute there. It should be online in
various places by Monday or so of the following week.

Jerry

From jbk@tamarack.cray.com  Mon Oct  4 12:11:37 1993
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Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 11:11:08 CDT
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-- 
Thanks,
BK

From rmason@WPI.EDU  Mon Oct  4 13:29:44 1993
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Message-Id: <199310041729.NAA28042@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>
To: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Source code for Rend v.5



hello...

I just bought the new book with version 5 of Rend386, but is there
any source code?  My senior project is starting to develop a
WorldBuilder using Rend and we want to make sure we have the latest
code.  Is the source for v.5 public domain?  I also had a question
about the copyright statement in the back of the book from the Waite
Group Press.  Is this now different from what I've been told in the
past that:
 
>
>Well, here are the basic requirements:
>
>      a) any software derived from rend386 must continue to acknowledge
>         Bernie Roehl and Dave Stampe as the original developers;
>         you can certainly add additional credits to it if
>         you wish
>      b) any software derived from rend386 must not be sold for profit
>         or as shareware without first obtaining permission from Bernie
>         Roehl and Dave Stampe
>      c) any enhancements must be provided to Bernie Roehl and Dave Stampe
>         for possible inclusion in the "main" version of the software.
>
>If you can live with those restrictions, then all is well.
>

-bob mason
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu


From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Oct  4 21:11:58 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9310041950.AA15992@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: REND386 version 5 source code now online
To: rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 15:50:18 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

[This message is being sent to everyone on the rend386-announce list; if you
wish to be taken off the list, or know other people who might wish to be on
it, see below]

The source code for Version 5.0 of rend386 is now available on
sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386 directory.  The file is "devel5.zip".

Also included in the zipfile is the source code for PLGX, a utility for
manipulating PLG files in various ways.

You should be able to compile the code using Turbo C++ 2.0 or above,
or Borland C.  If you have problems getting the code to compile,
it may be better to contact us directly rather than sending your
questions to the whole mailing list; we'll summarize any problems (and
solutions!) and send them out to everyone once.

Since I'm a little swamped right now, you may want to relay any problems
with compilation to Dave; his email address is dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca.

ABOUT THE LIST: there are two lists.  If you've received this message, you're
on the rend386-announce list (which is only used for major announcements
related to rend386).  Messages on this list are very rare; this is the first
one in many months.  If you have at least some ongoing interest in VR and
rend386, you can stay on this list without worrying about being buried in
messages.

The other list is rend386-discuss, which has messages almost every day
related to rend386 and related software; it's a higher-traffic list,
for people who are actually doing work with rend386.

To be removed from this announcement list, send mail to userid
majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, with the following line in the body of
the message (not the subject line):

       unsubscribe rend386-announce

To unsubscribe from the discussion list, substitute "rend386-discuss" for
"rend386-announce" in the line above.

Thanks again for your interest in rend386.


From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Tue Oct  5 00:43:27 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Help with PowerGlove Mode
From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <2c.6036.229.0CB1BFF3@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
Date: Mon,  4 Oct 93 20:28:00 +0000
Organization: Medical Informations


JS>the glove goes into strange "modes" every now and again, and just
JS>hangs. I fiddle around with the keys on the glove keypad for a while
JS>and it seems to come right - sometimes.
JS>It is not just my program that is the problem - this happens with the
JS>rend386 demo program as well.

I had this problem when I was not getting enough power or too much power
to the glove.  Kinda hazy situation but it may help.

Todd Porter

---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Tue Oct  5 14:30:38 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Devel5 exe size??
From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <2c.6048.229.0CB1BFF6@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
Date: Tue,  5 Oct 93 12:39:00 +0000
Organization: Medical Informations



Jerry,

JI>of 5/9/93, mine is 365Kb and the book version is on JI>212Kb. DAVE:

WOW!!!  Thats getting kinda big!  Once I add the routines I have it's
going to knock the conventional mem out.


Think you could make a .lib out of most of the code leaving basic .c
stuff hanging around to compile.  I have trouble getting the whole thing
to compile in a project in Turbo C++ 3.0.  Don't know if my version of
TASM is too old or what?  Be nice to just have the rend386.c to mess
with and the rest in .lib's or .obj's.

Todd Porter
---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Tue Oct  5 16:59:07 1993
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Date: 05 Oct 93 16:55:33 EDT
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Devel5 .exe size!
Message-Id: <931005205533_70233.1552_CHV95-1@CompuServe.COM>

	Hi!
	I have checked out the new version of the source code and I am very 
pleased!  I'm glad that there are no warnings, and that the code is nicely 
organized and formatted.
	Jerry Isdale wrote, " One disturbing thing to me, is that while 
both my compiled version and the book version claim to be of 5/9/93, mine 
is 365Kb and the book version is only 212Kb. DAVE: what did you add? i see 
the logitech tracker stuff is in the devel5, but that shouldnt make it grow 
by 140K!"
	Todd Porter wrote, "...WOW!!!  Thats getting kinda big!  Once I add 
the routines I have it's going to knock the conventional mem out...."

	Well, the answer is that there is debug info included in the 
version you generated. 
 The default settings for the makefile include the generation of certain 
debug information.  You can edit the makefile or the project file to change 
the debug settings, referring to your Borland documentation if you have 
never done this before.
	*Even* if you turn off *All* of the debug generation options, there 
will still be *some* debug info in the final executable.  Soooo, how does 
one "STRIP" this excess debug info?

	TDSTRIP.EXE

which is supplied with every Borland compiler I think.  It will be in the 
"bin" directory.  Once I ran "tdstrip" on the resulting "rend386.exe", the 
file was within a hundred bytes of the book version.

	I have been continuing to work on the "bob"ed version of rend386.  
I'll keep everyone posted when it is in a releasable state.

		-Mark Pflaging


From millere@student.msu.edu  Tue Oct  5 22:05:48 1993
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From: Paul Eric Miller <millere@student.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <9310060206.AA18048@student5.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: merging .wld
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 22:06:03 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 414       

I am trying to figure out a way to merge the Solar.wld with the Rides.wld
from the "Virtual Reality Creations" book so that when one takes a
balloon ride one has the option of leaving the surface of the fair
and heading into the solar system.

The glich I am running into is that of maintaining the balloon object
in place while switching from the rides to solar .wld.

Does anyone have suggestions?

Eric Miller


From ruel@ec002.tis.llnl.gov  Thu Oct  7 01:57:45 1993
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Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 22:56:17 -0700
From: ruel@ec002.tis.llnl.gov (Paul Ruel meK)
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca



From drew@vnet.IBM.COM  Thu Oct  7 10:17:19 1993
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From heggie@cad.uccb.ns.ca  Thu Oct  7 11:10:51 1993
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From rmason@WPI.EDU  Thu Oct  7 16:29:10 1993
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From: Bob Mason <rmason@WPI.EDU>
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Message-Id: <199310072029.QAA11706@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Changing Virtual Tools


hello...

I am currently in the process of trying to figure out how to change
virtual tools (e.g. the hand, that comes standard, to a paintbrush).
Depending on a keypress (e.g. F1, F2), I want the tool object to
change according to the mode that I want to enter, painting, moving,
etc.  I tried to copy some of the code from the intial loading sections
for the glove or 3D cursor statements, but have come up with some
problems. 

(note my 3D device is always the powerglove)
What seems to happen, is if I initially load the 3D device as the
hand, I can't switch to a 3D cursor (via a load_3D_cursor). But
if I initially load the 3D device as a 3D ptr (via hardcoding the
have_ptr flag to true) with a cube as the cursor, then I can switch
to another 3D cursor with the load_3D_cursor (say a pyramid).  I can
also attempt to switch to the hand figure file (via it's specialized
load function), but the hand doesn't become the cursor, and appears
VERY close to the viewport, so I can barely see anything of the world.
If I hit F2 again, to switch to my pyramid, I get the pyramid 3D
cursor... So it seems that I cannot switch the cursor from the hand
figure to a 3D pointer cursor (via the load_3D_cursor call).

Any ideas? Has anyone else tried fooling with this concept of
switching tools? ... it's very essential to my WorldBuilder I'm
developing. 

-bob mason
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu

ps. when I am able to switch a 3D cursor, the old cursor stays
permantly in the viewport. i.e. it's image doesn't get erased...
Any ideas on how to clear this small problem up?

From joshuas@aol.com  Thu Oct  7 19:06:38 1993
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Message-Id: <9310071904.tn49577@aol.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 19:04:42 EDT
Subject: FTPMail

I can't seem to find the FTPMail address...  (Again!)  Could somebody send me
the address?  Also, could anybody get me a recent listing using the FTP
equivalent or whatever using

ls -R /pub

(I don't want to have to waste too much time getting directories over mail...
 America OnLine only has an InterNet gateway for a moment every 15 minutes or
so.)

                                     Tnx in advance,
                                     Joshua Shagam

From RANDO@WordPerfect.com  Fri Oct  8 20:46:58 1993
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1993 14:41:12 -0600
From: RANDO@WordPerfect.com
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:  V5 Mouse Navigation

Kudos to all involved with Rend386 Version 5.  It's great!  I really
like using the mouse to navigate.  But it seems that the shift
right/left (Mouse Left button, move left or right)  is backwards.  I
move the viewpoint forward or backward with the mouse, and with MLB I
can move the viewpoint up or down.  But MLB+move left or right moves
the world, or the viewpoint moves in the opposite direction.

(I got devel5.zip from sunee.uwaterloo.ca Oct 5 1993)


From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Sat Oct  9 20:48:55 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: merging .wld
From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <2c.6124.229.0CB1C17B@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
Date: Sat,  9 Oct 93 18:58:00 +0000
Organization: Medical Informations



Eric Miller wrote:

PEM>I am trying to figure out a way to merge the Solar.wld with the Rides.wld
PEM>from the "Virtual Reality Creations" book so that when one takes a
PEM>balloon ride one has the option of leaving the surface of the fair
PEM>and heading into the solar system.



How are you loading in two sep. worlds anyway??  Do you delete out the
first and load in the solar??  I've been looking for a way to let the
users select worlds off a virtual menu and load them in accordingly.
Would your method work for this??

Todd Porter

---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Mon Oct 11 16:26:37 1993
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	id B1C188; Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:00:08 +0000
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: merging .wld
From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <2c.6183.229.0CB1C188@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 07:55:00 +0000
Organization: Medical Informations


Bob Mason said,

SI>What have you done with these virtual menus?  What functionality do
SI>they have?  Are they the built in text menus of Rend - or have you
SI>coded something new?  I'm currently on a project where we're going to
SI>have to write some code for new menus and was wondering if we could
SI>use your code if it's what we need.

Unless your app. is already set in stone it prob won't help.  What I did
was create an object with diff. sections on it (looks like the one in
Lawnmower Man), then I test for a collision of the different
rectangles.  But you must know which is which and which corresponds to
the world you want to load.  Not flexible at all.  However, in theory
why not create an alphabet in .plgs read in the .wld files and match
each char to the appropriate. .plg and build the menu that way.  Still
limited but more flexible.  Also you would want to keep some kind of
index into the menu.

The ones in PCVRJET where nice but they just didn't give off a good
effect.  I needed to be able to see more of a 3d type thing!

Todd Porter

---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Tue Oct 12 02:53:24 1993
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Date: 12 Oct 93 00:04:55 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: re: merging .wld
Message-Id: <931012040455_72662.410_CHN66-4@CompuServe.COM>

In response to Bob Mason's query about merging worlds and creating menus in
Rend, Todd Porter responds:

> why not create an alphabet in .plgs read in the .wld files and match
> each char to the appropriate. .plg and build the menu that way.  Still
> limited but more flexible.
 A set of single sided flat PLGs for each letter would a) take up a lot of
space and b) be a pain to setup. If Rend werent so limited in its # polygons,
then it wouldnt be such a problem. Perhaps with a 32bit flat memory version it
would work.
 There are times when you want the menu immersed in the world, perhaps attached
to your virtual body (a tool belt as someone suggested). However, I think that
a general menu interface would be much more usable for many applications. It
would be more familar to most users and its dynamics/human factors are better
understood.

 The best menuing solution, in my opinion, would be to have a higher resolution
screen (640x480 or x400) and use good graphic text menus. This would require
some major changes to Rend to support the high res mode and would slow the
frame rate. For world and object building, I think the reduced frame rate would
be acceptable. (besides, I hear great things about Rend-ATI... rend386 v4
modifed to work on the new ATI cards at high res).

Jerry Isdale


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Oct 12 08:09:07 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <657.9310121207@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: re: merging .wld
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 13:07:00 BST
In-Reply-To: <931012040455_72662.410_CHN66-4@CompuServe.COM>; from "Jerry Isdale" at Oct 12, 93 12:04 am
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
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Jerry Isdale said:
> [...] a higher resolution
> screen (640x480 or x400) and use good graphic text menus. This would require
> some major changes to Rend to support the high res mode and would slow the
> frame rate. 

What about "dynamic resolution".  The screen is in a 640x480 graphics mode,
but while moving around the render only renders pixels in groups of
2x2, effective res. is then 320x240.

When the viewpoint stops (or after an idle period), or when a menu
appears the screen is rendered in full 640x480.  *Real* texture maps
could even appear after further (inevitable) waiting.

Switching graphics *mode* is probably a bad idea since the monitor
(or HMD even) might lose sync and cause "jumps".

> For world and object building, I think the reduced frame rate would
> be acceptable. 

Certainly.  Plus (a) We'll all be using faster machines *eventually*, 
no point in constraining what's possible in the future by the 
technology we're using now, and (b) Not all applications of REND386
will need lightning fast, real-time rendering anyway.  Sometimes the choice
between being able to see the object *properly* (menu for example) and
having a high frame rate is going to be obvious.

> (besides, I hear great things about Rend-ATI... rend386 v4
> modifed to work on the new ATI cards at high res).

Where?  When?  How?  Could it be modified easily for other SVGA's?

Chris


-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          *new* FIDO address: 2:2503/307.50
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Reality is 80 Million polygons/second <<

From spot@clank.optron.ingr.com  Tue Oct 12 10:31:42 1993
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From: spot@clank.optron.ingr.com (Scott Wood)
Message-Id: <199310121440.AA06319@clank.optron.ingr.com>
Subject: Re: Rend-ATI???
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 List)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 10:40:42 EDT
Reply-To: spot@clank.optron.ingr.com
In-Reply-To: <657.9310121207@helios.dmu.ac.uk>; from "Chris Hand" at Oct 12, 93 1:07 pm
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[much deleted...]
> > (besides, I hear great things about Rend-ATI... rend386 v4
> > modifed to work on the new ATI cards at high res).
> 
> Where?  When?  How?  Could it be modified easily for other SVGA's?

Anyone know if this is for-real?  Sounds like the begining of special
drivers to handle specific hardware configurations (for Rend386). Great
for me - I have an ATI Graphics Ultra Pro VESA <---speed-demon!

-scott
-- 
                        _   /|      |   Scott Wood
          Ack Thippfft! \'o.O`      |   Optronics, an Intergraph Company
                        =(___)=     |   woodsd@infonode.ingr.com
                           U        |   

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Oct 12 10:44:38 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <4539.9310121443@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: HRES REND
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 15:43:48 BST
In-Reply-To: <m0omkNh-000RaWC@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>; from "Steve=Cox" at Oct 12, 93 9:04 am
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Steve=Cox said:
>   I am not sure about this part ..... but is anyone sure about 
> hardware page flipping in mode 5C .... or 640x480x256 ...
>  I don't think you can page flip in this mode .... I am probably
> wrong ....
> 
> 
>  Steve Cox
>  SysOp
>  Houston Game Designer

[presumably this was meant for the list, not for me...?]

I don't know the answer to that, I'm not a [S]VGA hacker (sorry!).

I'm talking SVGA cards here though, so we would expect at least
to have enough RAM... 640x480x256 is 300k, and plenty of SVGA's
have 1Meg, more than enough for *two* pages (but not enough for
double-buffered stereo).

Chris


-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                Internet mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk
Dept of Computing Science,          *new* FIDO address: 2:2503/307.50
De Montfort University, The Gateway,  Fax: +44 533 541891  
LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH             >> Reality is 80 Million polygons/second <<

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Oct 12 14:05:22 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 11:05:54 PDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: re: HRES REND

640x400x256 is just under 256K.  With suitable bandwidth
and an accellerator this could work in double-buffered stereo.
Text would work here.

640x400x64K is just under 512K.  This will work double-buffered.
I'm seeing 2meg dumb VGA cards for around $200.  This would
work in stereo double-buffered.

I think it's possible to store 7- or 8-bit color values
in a 32-bit word, doing addition on all three values at once.
This makes texture-mapping and smooth shading vaguely possible.
Say, on an Alpha.


-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From kgjensen@iastate.edu  Tue Oct 12 14:11:13 1993
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From: kgjensen@iastate.edu
Message-Id: <9310121811.AA21072@iastate.edu>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Where can I get rendATI ?


Just as the subject reads...
Can anyone tell me where to get rendATI ?
Thanks in advance.
-Kurt J.     kgjensen@iastate.edu

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Oct 12 14:36:37 1993
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9310121836.AA06378@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New VR-related papers on sunee
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 14:36:36 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Jerry Isdale has contributed a new version of his excellent "What is VR?"
paper; it can be found on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/vr/documents
directory.

From gf00117@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu  Tue Oct 12 14:45:56 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe



From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Oct 12 19:58:13 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Tue, 12 Oct 1993 19:29:18 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <10044.9310121829@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: merging .wld
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 19:29:04 BST
In-Reply-To: <199310121824.AA16530@panix.com>; from "Chris Kwasnicki" at Oct 12, 93 2:24 pm
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Chris Kwasnicki said:
> The ATI runs a Mach32 chip, so modification for another Mach32 based
> card should be straightfoward enough.  Other SVGAs based on other
> chips would need their own special drivers.
> 
> The mods are on CI$ in Cyberforum.

Could someone please upload these to an FTP site somewhere?
I presume there's source code in there...

Chris

From joshuas@aol.com  Tue Oct 12 23:52:32 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 23:44:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Rend-ATI???

Actually, I don't see why different video modes will need completely
different video drivers.  In my experience, the fastest way to write to a
graphics screen is to first call interrupt 10h with ax=video mode (i.e. $0013
for 320x200x256) and then use mem[$A000:x+y*xres] = color; to draw a pixel. 
It would be a simple matter to simply change ax and the resoltuion in x and y
axes...

For example, 640x480x65k can be invoked by using ax=$0072.  (Or is that
16.7M...  I don't have my video mode list in front of me at the moment.)

In any case, unless if you want to optimize for a specific card, there's no
reason to worry about compatibility issues.

JoshuaS@aol.com

From Carl.Fedrowisch@emc2-tao.fisc.com  Wed Oct 13 00:34:07 1993
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 23:37 EST
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: Carl.Fedrowisch@emc2-tao.fisc.com
Subject: subscribe

Please add me to your mailing list. REND386 is great, I am very happy that I
bought 'Virtual Reality Creations'. Thanks

Carl Fedrowisch
4901 21st Ave S.W.
Naples FL 33999
(813) 353-9712

From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Wed Oct 13 08:11:29 1993
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Date: 13 Oct 93 00:30:38 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Rend-ATI -> NOT!
Message-Id: <931013043037_72662.410_CHN55-6@CompuServe.COM>

Earlier this week I posted:

 > (besides, I hear great things about Rend-ATI... rend386 v4
 > modifed to work on the new ATI cards at high res).

 I should have checked my sources a bit better. What we have in CyberForum now
is XSharp rewritten for the ATI board. A MAJOR difference. Sorry about this. 
 However, the author of that rewrite is working on his own rendering system
based on his experiences with XSharp, Rend and ATI.

jerry

From ford@calvados.apana.org.au  Wed Oct 13 11:36:12 1993
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 11:33:48 +1100
From: ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
Subject: Serial Code
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <27RPDc1w165w@calvados.apana.org.au>
Organization: APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696
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Greetings to all...  This is my first time on the list, and (naturally)
I have a few questions (hopefully the odd answer later).

I'm trying to get a form of "two people in a box" up - ie two people,
same universe but with different viewpoints.  In viewer A's
world you see a representation of viewer B - ditto for B.  A&B get to
move around and interact with objects, but they're in identical
worlds, so the interactionis online and might be cute.  Anyway, so
far I've used the rend386 room5.wld with another PC just moving the
sculpture around.  Tried changing the code so that it sent a bigger
datagram with complete details in it and it blew up!  No idea why.

(actually I might - the old V4 code masks serial interrupts).  But
I'm wondering if this particular wheel might not already be rolling
somewhere, in which case perhaps I should just invent something else.

So....  In short, what I'm after is ANY code which sends serial stuff
(big chunks, 40 bytes or more) or which even does the whole shebang
and has people in the same world.   

Thanks in advance

David Ford

ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696

From ford@calvados.apana.org.au  Wed Oct 13 11:37:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 11:45:38 +1100
From: ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
Subject: Fastest world rates to date
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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What are the fastest world rates anybody has got out of their machines?
Mine's a 486SX33, 4M ram, few tweakies (0 DRAM wait, CLK/4 AT BUS
clock rate) which gives me around 15 fps at startup for room5.wld,
with 90fps for a blank screen.  What sorts of rates are others getting
out of their faster machines ?

I'm trying to get a handle on what a minimum machine for a reasonable
world (more complex than room5) would have to be.  I'm also 
curious about this Rend-ATI beast and its performance.

David Ford

PS - One thing bothers me - in a video game like "Hard Drivin'
the FPS seems damn quick - I'd guess about 20-30fps, but the worlds
seem damn complex as well.  Presumably they've done some serious
stuff with the hardware (they also mention integer 3D routines in
the credits).

ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696

From zap@lysator.liu.se  Thu Oct 14 05:02:43 1993
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From: zap@lysator.liu.se
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: R386 menus
Content-Length: 1409

I think r386 should implement menus this way:

FIRST it should implement an idea that I suggested to Dave and Bernie quite
a while ago; Surface polygons. Surface polygons would always be drawn after
some other polygon was drawn (would never need sorting) and ONLY if that 
other polygon WAS drawn, sort of a sub-list of object for an object that
is drawn in the order they appear in the list, AFTER the "master" object
and only IF the master object is on-screen they are even considered.
This could be used to implement markings and other "surface" or "texure"
like polygons like e.g. make something look like wood with a bunch of
brown 2 vertex polygons (lines) made as "Surface polygons" to the main
big polygon that is e.g. the table top....?

To simplify this these "Surface polygons" should perhaps be defined in 2d,
to save space and transformations adding speed? (but requiring more code
in R386 than today though - a 3d version would require neraly NO code
additions in R386 except that some objects are not sorted!).

Well, over to text. In AutoCAD there is a file format known as SHX (shape)
files. These are a pretty quick-n-efficient storage for text (relative
vectors and such junk bit 'n byte padded e.t.c.) To come up with a similar
fast-interpreted 2D drawing language would be trivial. Then give R386 the
ability to draw text via this functionallity....

Well, just some random ideas....

/Z

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Thu Oct 14 14:02:30 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: re: Merging .wlds
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 12:04:53 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Eric Miller wrote:

PEM>I am trying to figure out a way to merge the Solar.wld with the Rides.wld
PEM>from the "Virtual Reality Creations" book so that when one takes a
PEM>balloon ride one has the option of leaving the surface of the fair
PEM>and heading into the solar system.

I think that the best way to merge them is to use some form of
ASCII-text merger (i.e. copy solar.wld+rides.wld solaride.wld in MS-DOS
6) and edit the translation coordinates in the solar part by hand. 
(i.e. add the same vector to all of them.  I don't have the book (yet)
so I don't know what that vector would be.)

Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Thu Oct 14 14:07:53 1993
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To: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Virtual menus
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 11 Oct 93 07:55:00 -0000."
             <2c.6183.229.0CB1C188@medinfo.jax.fl.us> 
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 12:10:03 -0600
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Why not have something icon-driven?  (i.e. make a small .PLG to
represent the world, whatever.)  These icons could be put up on a large
object or arranged in a logical manner.

Another idea is to have a smaller, less-detailed version of the world
inside a cube and when the cube is selected, that world becomes the
current world.  These cubes could be arranged in some logical manner as
well, i.e. having them arranged as if they were one big world (because they ARE!)

Joshua Shagam

From ednet.bc.ca!sean.lavery@wimsey.com  Fri Oct 15 02:32:57 1993
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 22:00:44 
Subject: DESUBSCRIBE
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


If you have me on a mailing list on a Fido-net node, please de-subscribe me. I
think my mail is going to the wrong place.

From joshuas@aol.com  Sat Oct 16 01:04:20 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 93 00:31:49 EDT
Subject: Pointer-device drivers

How does one make drivers for pointing devices (i.e. PowerGloves)?

I was remembering something I heard at Cornell about hooking up electrodes to
muscles and reading flexion information directly from the muscle.  Any help
would be appreciated.  And, I could send you a schematic of the resulting
apparatus and a UUEncoded device driver!

Or, I could figure out how position on the PGlove is measured and try to make
a controller where it outputs the information into the serial port.

There are two good reasons for this type of interface:
1.) Expense.  The device would cost literally dimes (as dimes make good
electrodes)
2.) Human factors which include:
  A.) That annoying "chirping" which PGlove supposedly does (I've never
actually heard a PGlove in operation)
  B.) Bulky equipment - why wear a heavy, sweaty glove when you can use your
OWN equipment?
  C.) Expandability - from this one can easily make a DataSuit-type thing and
even add "virtual appendages"

In any case, let me know anything which could be useful in this matter.

Sincerely,
Joshua Shagam

From william@ritchie.acomp.usf.edu  Sat Oct 16 23:23:33 1993
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From: William Smith (AC) <william@ritchie.acomp.usf.edu>
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe


please subscribe me.   william@ritchie.acomp.usf.edu



From ford@calvados.apana.org.au  Sun Oct 17 11:33:08 1993
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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1993 13:07:08 +1100
From: ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
Subject: Worlds and stuff
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <L7aXDc1w165w@calvados.apana.org.au>
Organization: APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696
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Does anybody out there have any worlds they'd like to
share with the rest of us ?  I and a friend are trying to get a 
world together for a VR bike, perhaps with objects that drop in
and out of the world as you cycle about it (to reduce compute
overheads).  We thought of things like small villages, a cliff,
seascapes, mountains and even a small ski village.  Yep - we thought
it was a bit ambitious as well!  But ... Without ambition life is
far too easy....  Anyway, anything to populate this world would be
appreciated.  We've had a look at a couple of archive sites, but most
stuff is not in an easily translatable/transferable form, so we were
hoping to get up a heap of PLG files and world files to make our
lives a little more interesting.

PS - We have a program that (for want of a better desc) mutates things
Its good for when you'd like a lot of slightly different things based
on something recognisable - we've done a forest of mutated trees that
doesn't look too bad.

David Ford and Marlon Binet

VRcyclists

ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696

From lefebvre@pbush.com  Mon Oct 18 15:59:06 1993
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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Subject: TASM: wanted.
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 Mailling List)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 14:45:17 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Hello All,

    In compiliing rend386 I noticed you need TASM to process the assembler
routines.  I have Turbo C++, and it does not come with TASM.  I called Borland
thinking that I could probably buy it.  Ha!,  Not today my friends.  In order
to obtain a copy of TASM I will have to purcahse the "Professional
Developement Package"  the goes for Oh,  about $500.00.  So I said to them,
"You mean I need to shell out $500.00 just so I can use an assembler??"  Tis
true, tis true!  They said that they "used" to sell it seperately in a
debugging package or something like that, but it has been discontinued.

    Does anyone out there have such an animal they could part with or know of
someone who could part with it.  I realy NEED  (should I stress the word NEED
any further??)  TASM.  I appreciate any response on this topic.

    Boy, these software companies are forgetting about us little people!


    	    	    	    	    	    	Ranting, but mostly raving,

    	    	    	    	    	    	    Marc A. Lefebvre


From csm5337@hertz.njit.edu  Mon Oct 18 16:43:19 1993
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From: csm5337@hertz.njit.edu (conrad s mclean cis stnt)
Message-Id: <9310182041.AA21847@hertz.njit.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Hi Guys/Gals;
        I am new to all this VR stuff but it looks as if it would make a 
nice senior project for my B.A.. So can some one drop me a line on compiling
and all that good stuf using Borland C++ 3.00, and if posibble and sinple VR
program using the REND386 libraries.

Also, are any of you folks from New Jersey (preferibly Central Jersey). I 
don't seem to meet any body (at New Jersey Institute of Tech) that is into VR.

Thank you all in advance for the help.

...Conrad S. McLean csm5337@hertz.njit.edu


P.S. Does anyone have an extra Power Glove or Sega 3D Glasses the he/she would
like to sell?

From csm5337@hertz.njit.edu  Mon Oct 18 18:46:54 1993
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From: csm5337@hertz.njit.edu (conrad s mclean cis stnt)
Message-Id: <9310182048.AA23575@hertz.njit.edu>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Hi Guys/Gals;
        I am new to all this VR stuff but it looks as if it would make a 
nice senior project for my B.A.. So can some one drop me a line on compiling
and all that good stuf using Borland C++ 3.00, and if posibble and sinple VR
program using the REND386 libraries.

Also, are any of you folks from New Jersey (preferibly Central Jersey). I 
don't seem to meet any body (at New Jersey Institute of Tech) that is into VR.

Thank you all in advance for the help.

...Conrad S. McLean csm5337@hertz.njit.edu


P.S. Does anyone have an extra Power Glove or Sega 3D Glasses the he/she would
like to sell?

From PATKIN@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU  Mon Oct 18 23:40:30 1993
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From: PATKIN@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <931018215631.2022e2c6@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Subject: Help!

I am unable to bring up your software.  Just get lines in text mode on theeinggr
screen, regardless of the video mode I select.

I have a Vega Delux BIOS version 3.27, (c) 1987, Viudeo Seven, Inc., with a 
Phoenix BIOS version 01.04.02.  The monitor is an old Samsung VGA with a 
9-pin D-shell connector.

Thanks.

From PATKIN@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU  Tue Oct 19 00:44:04 1993
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Subject: subscribe


From ford@calvados.apana.org.au  Tue Oct 19 11:38:19 1993
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 10:08:06 +1100
From: ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
Subject: mutation and other code
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <88R1Dc1w165w@calvados.apana.org.au>
Organization: APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696
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Greetings all,

I've had a few requests for the mutation code.  It may not be as
spectacular as people may think - it's just the "save_plg" 
routine from rend386 modified to randomly shrink or grow a vertice
within certain limits - but it makes the world more interesting
by having different looking trees.

Other code allows smooth movement via the keyboard by using the
shift and control keys - available thru bioskey call.  Makes keyboard
movement a lot nicer.

Yet more movement code allows the user to "fly" via the glove by
pointing with the index and next finger in the direction of travel.

Believe it or not but my main hassle is now getting the code back
off the machine I developed it on (a friends) so I guess watch this
spot.  None of the code is particularly difficult incidentally.

A PLEA :
  If anybody has any worlds out there that they've made, please
send me brief details of what they're about and I'll try to 
compile a list and port it here (and possibly sunee).  


David Ford


ford@calvados.apana.org.au (David Ford)
APANA, Hobart, Tasmania: 002 34 8696

From gray@cs.wmich.edu  Thu Oct 21 15:31:43 1993
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From: gray@cs.wmich.edu (Curtis Gray)
Message-Id: <9310211856.AA16619@cs.wmich.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Bitmaps in Rend386


Hi everyone,

I have two questions:

I have two questions:

 

1) How do you copy a video page with masking? I don't want to copy the

   0 pixels so I can use a page for a foreground. I already have it setup

   for the fourth page as a background page and it works great, since there

   is no masking of pixels.

 

2) How do you set the world boundries? whenever I create an application and

   move though it, I come to a boundry point and simply show up on the other

   side. As it stands the world is a bit small, so I want to make it much

   larger.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Curt


From amir@csulb.edu  Thu Oct 21 21:53:58 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

subscribe rend386-announce
subscribe rend386-discuss

From rhaima@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu  Fri Oct 22 16:28:29 1993
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From datanetl!zhao.ruzhou@uunet.UU.NET  Tue Oct 26 01:59:21 1993
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Subject: Rend386
From: zhao.ruzhou@datanetlink.org (Zhao Ruzhou)
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 22:00:00 +0000
Organization: The Calling Centre BBS / Int'l Network

Can I know how can I get the source code for Rend386 ? Really need it
urgently .

From c4ah@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Oct 27 12:00:30 1993
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From: Andrew Henderson <c4ah@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <27392.9310271412@boreas.cms.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: 3D object creation tool.
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 14:12:18 GMT
Cc: rend386-announce@sunne.uwaterloo.ca
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]


Dear REND386 users,

	I am about to embark on writing a new application for the creation of
3D objects. The objects will be built in an interactive environment and once 
created they will then be used to create new virtual worlds. The objects will
also have the property to be snapped together similar to Lego bricks, thus
making virtual world creation easier. 

	I wondered if any REND386 user has any suggestions for features
that they would like to see incorporated in either a 3D interactive object
creator for use with REND386 or on the world creation by 'snapping' objects
together. I you have any suggestions or would like to hear more then e-mail me,
any response will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Andrew Henderson.

e-mail: c4ah@dmu.uk.ac.
 

From nguyena@mv.us.adobe.com  Mon Nov  1 18:46:32 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe



From nguyena@mv.us.adobe.com  Mon Nov  1 21:06:15 1993
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From randysh@microsoft.com  Wed Nov  3 19:50:37 1993
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From: Randy Shedden <randysh@microsoft.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed,  3 Nov 93 09:54:53 EST 
Subject: Rend386 VGA to NTSC question

Does anyone have any recommendations for a VGA to NTSC converter
that will work with Rend386?  I have tried a Boffin converter
only to find out that it has there huge black stripes running
down the middle of the screen.  Bernie Roehl confirms this is
caused by the Boffin converter not supporting the poorly
document mode X of VGA.  Does anyone know of a converter that
will work or another way around this problem?

Randy Shedden (randysh@microsoft.com)

From fullfeed!fullfeed.com!pcvr@spool.mu.edu  Wed Nov  3 20:27:46 1993
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From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
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Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3496

*******************************************************************************
                     PCVR Magazine Presents ISSUE 12
*******************************************************************************
 
The theme for issue 12 of PCVR Magazine is INPUT DEVICES.  The issue contains
60 pages of the most up-to-date information available for Virtual Reality
hardware and sofware developers.
 
Our feature articles are:
*************************
 
Rebuilding the Power Glove  - Todd Porter shows us how to get rid of the
                              plastic on the Power Glove and rebuilds it
                              on something more comfortable.
 
Interfacing the Global 3D Controller - We investigate the programming of the
                                       Global 3D Controller from Global Devices.
 
Interfacing the Logitech Cyberman - Introduced for the Christmas buying
                                    season, the Cyberman is easily interfaced
                                    to your favorite programs using an
                                    updated mouse driver.
 
What are Strain Gages - How do the Power Glove fingers sense the position of
                        your fingers?
 
Survey of Input Devices - What's currently available in the area of input
                          devices.
 
 
Our special section includes:
*****************************
 
Cyberterm - Part 2 - Michael Snoswell takes us through the trials of
                     building a virtual reality environment.
 
Terrain Mapping with REND386 - Part 2 - Chris Hand looks at using REND
                                        for simple terrain mapping.
 
Review of the Graphics Gems Trilogy
 
Review of Tricks of the Graphics Gurus
 
 
Our regular columns are:
************************
 
Book Review - Robin Hollands reviews the books 'Glimpses of Heaven,
              Visions of Hell' and 'Silicon Mirage'.
 
Product Review - John Williamson looks at the new Virtual Vision products and
                 sourcebooks.
 
VR Insider - Brad Burnett looks at acuity and its impact on head mounted
             displays.
 
Virtual Tele-News - David Mitchell takes us into the field of telepresence.
 
Making REND Work - Chris Kwasnicki begins the development of an exciting
                   application using Version 5.0 of REND386.  Become a
                   fireman at the World Trade Center bombing.
 
In The Industry - Tom Hayward looks at the recent VR Systems conference in
                  New York.
 
My Virtual Playground - Joe talks about going national.
 
 
The Disk:
*********
 
The disk enclosed with Issue 12 includes a complete demonstration of the
application built in the Making REND Work column as well as the interface
code for the Global 3D Controller and the Logitech Cyberman.
 
 
Rates:
******
 
(US-CANADA/Overseas)
$26.00/$38.00 for One-year Subscription
$4.50/$6.50 for back issues, 1-11 available
 
Ask about our Power Glove, Shutter Glasses, and VictorMaxx Stuntmaster
Interfaces!
 
We accept VISA, Mastercard, American Express, and Check or Money Order in
US funds drawn on US bank.
 
 
Contact for more information:
*****************************
 
                                        PCVR Magazine
                                        PO Box 475
                                        Stoughton, WI 53589
                                        (608) 877 - 0909 - tel/fax
                                        pcvr@fullfeed.com - email
 



From sandy@mercury.cs.mun.ca  Wed Nov  3 20:47:52 1993
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	id <AA03406>; Wed, 3 Nov 93 20:47:52 -0500
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Date: 	Wed, 3 Nov 1993 21:57:20 -0330
From: Sandy Walsh <sandy@mercury.cs.mun.ca>
Message-Id: <9311040127.AA10258@mercury.cs.mun.ca>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Hi there,

I just got REND386 going with the Powerglove .. very cool. I picked up
the WAITE book, also cool. 

Now, I have a few questions:
1. What is the status of things now ... should there be a version 6 soon?
2. Where can I get my hands on a pair of Sega glasses (none in town here)
3. Whadda think of this idea to speed up rendering:

	Create a small array of precomputed World to Viewport transformation
	matrices for a field of view perhaps +/-30 degrees left and right
	of the users current position, and +/- 15 degrees above and below.

	Recompute these values when the user actually moves (forward/
	backward/up/down), but if the user simply "looks around" 
	as would be the case with a HDM, the rendering time can be increased
	by using the precomputed values.

	The recomputation cost should be minimal since you usually have a
	second or so after the user moves to a new location (while he
	gets his bearings). Also, this does not require rendering, just 
	computation.

	Feasable?

---
Sandy Walsh, B.Sc. - Software Engineer - CORETEC Incorporated

I've been carving you, to see what form you'd take. 
You were hiding in ivory, I just wanted to free your shape ...
	- The Tragically Hip 	(sandy@mercury.cs.mun.ca)

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Sat Nov  6 00:26:37 1993
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	id AA24368; Sat, 6 Nov 93 00:26:32 -0500
Date: 06 Nov 93 00:22:30 EST
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: REND386-List <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: RE: More worlds....
Message-Id: <931106052230_70233.1552_CHV42-11@CompuServe.COM>

 a LONG time ago, KJF (KJELLJF@dhhalden.no) wrote, "We did not get v5 to 
work with two gloves, is this my fault or doesn't v5 support two gloves?"

Now that the source code for version 5 is available, it would be a 
straightforward task to integrate Object Glove with version 5 of Rend386.  
To my knowledge this has not been done.  Sorry I took so long to reply...

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 |      / |^\        /| |^^^\ |^\      Mark Pflaging, Vice President
 |    /   |___\    /  | |____ |___\   
 |  /     |\     /----|      ||        70233.1552@CompuServe.COM
 |/       |  \ /      | \___/ |


From U61500@uicvm.cc.uic.edu  Sun Nov  7 15:50:40 1993
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Date:         Fri, 05 Nov 93 22:01:25 CST
From: Happy Together! <U61500@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Subscribe
To: To whom it may concern <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>

Dear sir,
 My name is Michael Bogucki, and I just recently purchased the book "virtual re
ality creations." IN one of the chapters, it said to send e-mail ti you for sub
scription info. I have a question concerning the video drivers. I'd like to fin
d out on how to put several vga cards into my 486. Where can I get the video dr
iver, and is there anything else i'd need to know on building a hmd?. I'd also
like to be a subscriber on the rend386 forum (updates, etc..)
   Sincerely yours, Michael Bogucki.

From czbb020@access.texas.gov  Sun Nov  7 22:53:00 1993
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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1993 21:51:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Kevin J. Comerford" <czbb020@access.texas.gov>
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.59.9311072114.A3308@access.texas.gov>

SUBSCRIBE CZBB020@ACCESS.TEXAS.GOV Kevin J. Comerford

From fullfeed!fullfeed.com!pcvr@spool.mu.edu  Mon Nov  8 16:52:52 1993
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	id AA15540; Sat, 6 Nov 93 11:41:26 CST
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 93 11:41:26 CST
From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
Message-Id: <9311061741.AA15540@fullfeed.fullfeed.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1879

PCVR Magazine introduces three interface packages for those who don't
have the time to build them.

PCVR-PG
=======

        Power Glove to PC Parallel Port connector with external power
                     supply plug (joystick adapter available as well)
	Disk with examples including source code
	Cost: $19.95 + $2.50 shipping ($4.50 Overseas)

Misc:
        5V Power Supply: $20.00 + $5.00 shipping ($10.00 Overseas)

	Power Gloves: $25.95 + $5.00 Shipping ($10.00 Overseas)


PCVR-SHUTTER
============

	Shutter Glasses to PC Serial Port connector
	Disk with examples including source code
	Cost: $29.95 + $3.50 shipping ($5.50 Overseas)

            
PCVR-STUNTMASTER
================

Complete cable for interfacing the VictorMaxx Stuntmaster Headset to:
		* NTSC Signal
		* Power Supply supplied with headset
                * Stereo plug for soundblaster or compatible stereo
                   sound card
                * Head tracking through joystick game port.  Please
                   note that the head tracking consists of look right,
                   look forward, and look left.  There are no positions
                   between these.  We recommend using the PCVR-TRACKER
                   once available for more precise tracking of yaw, pitch
                   and roll.

	Disk with examples including source code
	Cost: $29.95 + $3.50 shipping ($5.50 Overseas)


COMING SOON:

PCVR-TRACKER
============
        Kit and assembled unit for arm-based head tracker to
          appear in Issue 13
        Cost: To be determined
          - Targeting under $100.00 for assembled unit
          - under $50.00 for kit

Contact:

                        PCVR Magazine
                        PO Box 475
                        Stoughton, WI  53589
                        (608) 877 - 0909  -- tel/fax
                        pcvr@fullfeed.com -- email






From rayssd!swlred.msd.ray.com!swl!lms@uunet.UU.NET  Tue Nov  9 08:32:12 1993
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Message-Id: <9311091248.AA14314@swlred>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe


I guess that's all.


From 100021.2332@CompuServe.COM  Fri Nov 12 12:06:40 1993
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Date: 12 Nov 93 12:02:30 EST
From: Torsten Hoffmann <100021.2332@CompuServe.COM>
To: <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <931112170229_100021.2332_BHB57-1@CompuServe.COM>

subscribe


the rend386 list for a while.
Has anyone added support for the Cyberscope to
Rend386?

Cyberscope is the thing with mirrors that rotates
and shifts two half vga screens into a stereo pair.
It mounts on the front of the monitor and you look
down into it.

It should be a simple matter to modify rend386 drivers
to produce the two screens, but I would like to check
to see if someone has done it before I try.

Thomas Clarke
Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL
3280 Progress Drive, Orlando, FL 32826-0544
(407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ist.ucf.edu

From 100021.2332@CompuServe.COM  Fri Nov 12 12:17:13 1993
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Date: 12 Nov 93 12:04:33 EST
From: Torsten Hoffmann <100021.2332@CompuServe.COM>
To: <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <931112170432_100021.2332_BHB39-1@CompuServe.COM>

subscribe


From wbaskin@PCS.CNU.EDU  Fri Nov 12 15:32:36 1993
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 15:26:12 EST
From: wbaskin@PCS.CNU.EDU (walter baskin)
Message-Id: <9311122026.AA18450@PCS.CNU.EDU>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe
Cc: wbaskin@columbia.PCS.CNU.EDU


I'm a grad student at Christopher Newport University-

wbaskin@columbia.pcs.cnu.edu


I'm planning on porting the Rend386 software to a UNIX based machine using 
XWindows to be used by the Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 
(CEBAF) for 3d visualization of a particle detector and events.

Please add me to your mailing list and let me know if any similar endeavors are underway.  PS  -I have the Stamp, Roehl, Eagan book- VR Creations....It's 
fantastic!! 


Walt Baskin
7 Enscore Ct
Hampton, VA 23666

From sa_hilli@csd.uwe.ac.uk  Tue Nov 16 04:12:21 1993
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Via: uk.ac.uwe-bristol.pat; Mon, 15 Nov 1993 09:07:22 +0000
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From: sa_hilli@csd.uwe.ac.uk (DOC)
Message-Id: <9311150905.AA29353@csd.uwe.ac.uk>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: REND 386, help !


Ok, I am new to this powerglove lark.  So bare with me.
rend 386 is a rendiring package for the 386, but there is no exe file.
So could someone please answer me these questions.

a) if there is no exe, how do I use it.

and

b) how do I get instructions for it.

Thanks a lot

Scott

From WALL@bng.ge.com  Wed Nov 17 09:18:31 1993
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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 9:18:30 -0500 (EST)
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@bng.ge.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <931117091830.2a200ed8@bng.ge.com>
Subject: Stereo Viewer?

Hello all,

        My question is not directly related to Rend386, but I thought
people on this list might be able to help me.  Basically, I'm looking
for a program which will alternately display a left and right GIF image
while switching the Sega glasses connected to the serial port (as they
are for Rend386).  There exists a program like this already (entitled
3DGV - author unknown), but it assumes a different Sega glasses interface.

        Alternately, I've been rummaging around the Rend386 source
files and I'm pretty sure I can get the Sega interrupt hooked and
running, but I need a library or source code which supports loading
GIF format images (preferably the latest version, GIF89A).

Any takers?  Any help would be very much appreciated!


-Sean

      wall@bng.ge.com

I can also be reached on America Online as

      GearDown@aol.com   (I think this is it...)

From bartoli@dsi-encore.ing.uniroma1.it  Wed Nov 17 09:42:23 1993
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From: Bartoli Daniele <bartoli@dsi-encore.ing.uniroma1.it>
Message-Id: <199311171158.AA14048@DSI-encore.ing.uniroma1.it>
Subject: subscrive
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 12:58:56 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

 










i bought vr creations and i would like to have technical information abour VR 9 (oops my name is Daniele Bartoli and i studies computer science and i would like to work in VR field ) > can you give me informations about host in wich i can find something interesting for develop foftware in VR (every kind) 

From clarke@acme.ist.ucf.edu  Wed Nov 17 17:39:28 1993
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 13:13 EST
From: clarke@acme.ist.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke)
Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.63)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Cyberscope Support?

I have been off the rend386 list for a while.
Has anyone added support for the Cyberscope to
Rend386?

Cyberscope is the thing with mirrors that rotates
and shifts two half vga screens into a stereo pair.
It mounts on the front of the monitor and you look
down into it.

It should be a simple matter to modify rend386 drivers
to produce the two screens, but I would like to check
to see if someone has done it before I try.

Thomas Clarke
Institute for Simulation and Training, University of Central FL
3280 Progress Drive, Orlando, FL 32826-0544
(407)658-5030, FAX: (407)658-5059, clarke@acme.ist.ucf.edu


From gray@sloth.eng.uci.edu  Wed Nov 17 22:30:35 1993
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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 19:29:52 PST
From: gray@sloth.eng.uci.edu (Jeff Gray)
Message-Id: <9311180329.AA05296@sloth.eng.uci.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Unsubscribe

Unsubscribe gray@sloth.eng.uci.edu

From OLEBV@dhhalden.no  Thu Nov 18 20:50:13 1993
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          Tue, 16 Nov 93 20:01:08 GMT+1
From: Ole Bredesen-Vestby <OLEBV@dhhalden.no>
Organization: Ostfold College
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 20:00:47 +0100
Subject: Programming the PowerGlove
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Message-Id: <3CEE83731@sofus.dhhalden.no>

Hi!

I've been looking a little at the source code for rend386, but I 
can't find any code that controlls the pinky-finger. Are there any 
ways for reading data from that finger?

Is the glove only responsing on how you bend your fingers, or can you 
also spread your fingers (making the V sign)?

I'm only looking for the code that controlls the glove. Is this code 
separated from the rest in some .c or .h files?

That was a awful lot of questions, but I hope some of you would 
bother to answer me.

-Ole Bredesen-Vestby

From R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk  Thu Nov 18 21:06:04 1993
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Message-Id: <9311181705.AA01618@sun-co05.ac.uk>
From: Rik the northerner <R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: compile errors gallore
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 17:05:25 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]


 Please help  I can't seem to compile the demo4 program on either turbo c++ or  borland c++, it keeps on coming up with "function ????? prototype not defined"  ,but it is defined in the header files and the header files are loading and     compiling. I know there is an executable version of the demo4 program but I am  trying to change and adapt it. I haven't touched the code yet apart from telling the compiler where the .h files are.I have played about with the options and it will compile if I switch off the warning for prototypes needed, but then it fails at the link stage. It comes up with errors now saying it hasn't got a definition of the symbol _????????  

why oh why oh why......


can you help 
ta
Rik

From SYLLAFEVER@delphi.com  Fri Nov 19 02:45:01 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 01:11:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: SYLLAFEVER@delphi.com
Subject: response to demo4 questions
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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From SYLLAFEVER@delphi.com  Fri Nov 19 03:34:37 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 01:33:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: SYLLAFEVER@delphi.com
Subject: REND compile help
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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(Please excuse the first send of this message, most of it was chopped.)


I spent months (yes, months) trying to compile demo4 under Turbo C++ 
and Borland C++. I had 6 problems to overcome:
   (1) I was a neophyte C++ programmer and didn't understand the Make
	utility at the time, or the Borland IDE..
   (2) I didn't unzip the file with the -d option into directories initially.
   (3) The programs had so many warnings that the compile would die,
	finally had to change the allowable amount of warnings per program 
	to 255.
   (4) The lib files were not usable.
   (5) Turbo C++ didn't have an assembler, had to buy Borland C++.
   (6) One of the programs (Maybe it was DEMO4) had a compile error 
       (as opposed to a warning). Between this error and #4 above, I wonder 
       if I had a bad download file.
    I found out about another version of REND called JIREND (from Jerry 
Isdale). It was at Sunee in a public upload directory, and I have seen it 
at 158.125.96.29, or eta.lut.ac.uk. The Make files were good (except on my 
machine, it wouldn't switch from directory to directory by itself, I had to 
take the Makefiles apart). The programs were clean, and it all ran.

> I can't seem to compile the demo4 program on either turbo c++ or  
> borland c++, it keeps on >coming up with "function ????? prototype 
> not defined"  ,but it is defined in the header files and the header 
> files are loading and compiling. 
> why oh why oh why......
> Rik


From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Fri Nov 19 07:05:06 1993
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Date: 	Fri, 19 Nov 1993 08:30:52 -0330
From: Sandy Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Any new worlds out there?
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I have created a test world for a robot I am building. Are there any sites
around that have rend386 worlds available (other than the ones in Virt.
Real. Creat.), I would like to see some new ones or post mine.

Should I post it here or will that cause bandwidth problems?

Anyone?

---
Sandy Walsh, B.Sc. - Software Engineer - CORETEC Incorporated

I've been carving you, to see what form you'd take. 
You were hiding in ivory, I just wanted to free your shape ...
	- The Tragically Hip 	(sandy@mercury.cs.mun.ca)



From rwilliam@cec.uchile.cl  Fri Nov 19 07:38:56 1993
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From: rwilliam@cec.uchile.cl (WILLIAMS JELDRES RICARDO)
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Unsubscribe rwilliam@cec.uchile.cl

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Nov 19 09:23:26 1993
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From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Subject: REND386 worlds
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 9:23:26 EST
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For a project I'm working on, I could use several interesting example
worlds.  If you've got any that you'd be willing to share, please get
in touch with me by email.  Even partially-completed worlds are fine.

From joshuas@aol.com  Fri Nov 19 20:48:42 1993
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 20:13:17 EST
Subject: Re: Programming the PowerGlove

The PowerGlove *has* only four fingers.  (How else can it shove the entire
gloves' 2-bit flexion into 1 byte?)

The glove only measures flexion (x-axis) and doesn't care about Y or Z axis.

JoshuaS

From hugo@hydra.unm.edu  Sat Nov 20 21:39:52 1993
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From: Patrice Cummings <hugo@hydra.unm.edu>
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Subject: need rend palette color
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Hi,

I'm trying find the RGB values for the 256 colors in the Rend386
standard palette.  I've looked in the code, but couldn't find
the numbers.  Does anybody know them or know where to find 
them?

Thanks in advance,

Patrice
hugo@unm.edu


From cs199418@comp.hkp.hk  Sun Nov 21 09:23:32 1993
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mailing list

From Bull@NCGICSC2.TELECOM.com.au  Mon Nov 22 01:18:24 1993
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Subject: Sandy ../Worlds apart!
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 12:28:00 EST
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Sandy - I received your message, tried to reply and got an MS-Mail error 
(whap!) - it lost your message.   Could you re-send to me or the group ?

I'm hunting for any other worlds that ANYBODY has out there - and as I don't 
have access to Internet FTP I have to get it some other way, although I can 
probably get it from a list server or something.  However we in VR land are 
suffering from a dearth of both applications and cute worlds - so anything 
(even prototypes) would be appreciated.   It is a little hard for me to 
believe that in the ENTIRE WORLD there are so few people actually creating 
worlds in rend386...

David Ford

From simonb@ctt.bellcore.com  Mon Nov 22 08:01:57 1993
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Subscribe

From rmason@WPI.EDU  Mon Nov 22 12:14:41 1993
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To: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: virtual.bob@somewhere.someplace.edu
Subject: QUICK ?: getting (x,y,z)


hello!

we're making good progress for our WorldBuilder using Rend, but right
now I'm trying to put in a fly tool using the glove.  And I have
everything worked out, except one crucial detail.  When I read the
glove values (essentially from a read_pointer call), the y value is
always 0 or occasionally -1, whereas the x & z values are in world
coordinates. How can I get the (x,y,z) true coordinates from the
glove?

Also I know you must be incredibly busy, but would you have any hints
as how to change the representation of the 3D pointing device?

-bob mason
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu

From edd@server01.lncc.br  Mon Nov 22 13:55:39 1993
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From: edd@server01.lncc.br (Edmundo Barbosa da Silva)
Message-Id: <9311221849.AA00617@server01.lncc.br>
Subject: PLG Files
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 16:49:50 GMT-3:00
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi there,

I would like to know, if possible, more information about the plg format. Like if it's compatibility with other softwares like 3ds (of course that may need some adjustment). Do anyone know if REND386 has a version for the RS6000?? I would like to try in our lab.

TIA,

Edd

-- 
+=============================================+
+LABORATORIO NACIONAL DE COMPUTACAO CIENTIFICA+
+ National Laboratory of Scientific Computing +
+                                             +
+          Edmundo Barbosa da Silva           +
+                                             +
+               System Analist                +
+                                             +
+             email: edd@lncc.br              +
+                                             +
+          Rio de Janeiro - Brazil            +
+=============================================+

From OLEBV@dhhalden.no  Mon Nov 22 21:04:15 1993
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From: Ole Bredesen-Vestby <OLEBV@dhhalden.no>
Organization: Ostfold College
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 22:16:35 +0100
Subject: bits & bytes
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Message-Id: <9615F04ADD@sofus.dhhalden.no>

I see that the bending values for the fingers of the Powerglove are 
given in ONE byte. This means that each finger has only 4 bending 
positions. Are there possible to get more than 4 positions for each 
finger by changing the code, or is this set by the hardware? 

-Ole


From alastras@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx  Tue Nov 23 01:11:51 1993
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From: alastras@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx (Dr. Alfonso Lastras Martinez)
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe Rafael Agundis

subscribe Rafael Agundis

From alastras@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx  Tue Nov 23 01:10:50 1993
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Subject: subscribe Rafael Agundis



From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Tue Nov 23 01:29:07 1993
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Date: 23 Nov 93 01:23:53 EST
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: re: PLG Files
Message-Id: <931123062353_72662.410_DHI4-4@CompuServe.COM>

> From: edd@server01.lncc.br (Edmundo Barbosa da Silva)

>  if it's compatibility with other softwares like 3ds 
 Far from it. However there are some converters available on
sunee.uwaterloo.ca. If you know a format, it isnt hard to write a converter
either. my iegeom toolkit does a nice job, begin overkill for converters
though.

> Do anyone know if REND386 has a version for the RS6000??
 Look for multiverse on ftp.u.washington.edu in either the VirtualReality or
virtual-worlds area. It is a freeware VR system designed for UNIX/Xwindows. You
would kill too many brain cells trying to convert Rend. (even a plg/wld reader
would be tough, as the formats are kinda a mishmash that evolved rather than
being designed.)

Jerry Isdale

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Nov 23 07:43:23 1993
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From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Subject: Re: bits & bytes
To: OLEBV@dhhalden.no (Ole Bredesen-Vestby)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 7:43:27 EST
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9615F04ADD@sofus.dhhalden.no>; from "Ole Bredesen-Vestby" at Nov 22, 93 10:16 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> I see that the bending values for the fingers of the Powerglove are 
> given in ONE byte. This means that each finger has only 4 bending 
> positions. Are there possible to get more than 4 positions for each 
> finger by changing the code, or is this set by the hardware? 

It's a limitation of the hardware.  You'd have to hack apart a glove to
get better resolution (which can certainly be done).

One possible approach: hook the variable-resistance flex sensors to the
joystick port.  The joystick port can read up to four such resistors,
so it's a good match for the job.

Of course, you'd have to fiddle with the resistance a bit; I think joysticks
have 1k pots in them, not sure what the resistance across the glove's
flex sensors is.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl
        University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Nov 23 15:46:14 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:38:58 PST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: bits & bytes

Joysticks are 50k-100k; I've run 10megohm pots through them.

I think there are new and old PG's.  The conductive ink supplier
died in the middle of the product life, and "new" PG's use
some other finger sensor that has a much lower ohm range.
0-100, I think.  The conductive ink sensors in the "old"
PG's have a much higher range.

This is all hearsay, believe not a word.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Nov 24 12:14:28 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:38:58 PST
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: bits & bytes

Joysticks are 50k-100k; I've run 10megohm pots through them.

I think there are new and old PG's.  The conductive ink supplier
died in the middle of the product life, and "new" PG's use
some other finger sensor that has a much lower ohm range.
0-100, I think.  The conductive ink sensors in the "old"
PG's have a much higher range.

This is all hearsay, believe not a word.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From vnp@MAS.esco.Eurocontrol.be  Fri Nov 26 14:56:59 1993
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From: vnp@MAS.esco.Eurocontrol.be (M. van Noppen)
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe




A few days ago I bought the book 'Virtual Reality Creations'. Being fascinated about the REND386 program, I would like to join the mailing list for the REND386 product.

                                   Maurice Van Noppen



From fibcls02@lsi.upc.es  Fri Nov 26 17:05:08 1993
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From: Luca Chiarabini <fibcls02@lsi.upc.es>
Subject: SVGA256 driver
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X400-Recipients: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


I need rendering in high resolution using Rend386 but the drivers I found
didn't work on my TSENG4000 based Super VGA card.

Does someone know about a SVGA or TVGA driver for Rend386 and where I can 
get it? Is there any driver for VESA cards or emulation?



						Thank's
			

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Fri Nov 26 18:05:44 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 18:53:15 GMT
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: fwd from sci.v-w: LCD

Path: dmu.ac.uk!uknet!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!caen!usenet.coe.montana.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!roverpte.demon.co.uk!lyndond
From: lyndond@roverpte.demon.co.uk (Lyndond David)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: DESIGN: Trackers and LCD screens
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Hitachi sell an LCD module that is put into aircraft for in flight
video.  It is a 4 inch screen with backlighting and an ntsc video
input. Called an LCD-501 I think. They are quite expensive compared to
the standard consumer type pocket tv. Cant remember the resolution
exactly. I seem to remember something like 320 by 200.

Hope this helps, I dont know where you can buy them.
-- 
Lyndon David
Rover Group - Vehicle and Powertrain Electronics
My views not of my employer etc.....

From fibcls02@lsi.upc.es  Fri Nov 26 18:50:26 1993
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From: Luca Chiarabini <fibcls02@lsi.upc.es>
Subject: REND386 LICENSE
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I'm developing "educational" applications in simulation and VR on PC's for
our local government and I've been testing Rend386 version 4 and 5. 
It worked quite well and I am considering doing the development based upon it.
I wonder how much would cost a license of the commercial version (if any) of 
Rend 386 and what are the differences between that version and the public 
domain one. 

Another question I have is why is the DEVEL5.ZIP package is so unstructured?
It's a pity because DEVEL4.ZIP was so well organized...



                                       Luca Chiarabini
				Joves Estudiants D'Informatica
				Barcelona, Catalonya, SPAIN

From fibcls02@lsi.upc.es  Fri Nov 26 19:05:51 1993
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From: Luca Chiarabini <fibcls02@lsi.upc.es>
Subject: DRIVE-SIMULATION
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (confirm)
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I'm looking for sources of drive simulation based upon rend386, public
domain or commercial sotfware (I'm ready to pay for it if necessary).
I'm also looking for good PLG car files, possibly under 1000 polygons.

	Does someone know where I can get something like that?

				Thank you

From fibcls02@lsi.upc.es  Fri Nov 26 20:32:18 1993
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From: Luca Chiarabini <fibcls02@lsi.upc.es>
Subject: REND386 LICENSE
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Hi, we are a "junior empresa", a student nonprofit association with the
pourpose of give the chance to students of our University to earn some money 
developing projects for business corporations while still studying.

At the moment we are developing "educational" applications in simulation and
VR systems on PC's for our local government,  I've been testing Rend386 version 
4 and also version number 5. It worked out quite well and we are considering
doing the development based upon it, with some modifications to the sources.
I wonder how much would cost a license of the commercial version (if any) of 
Rend 386 and what are the differences between that version and the public 
domain one. 

Another question I have is why is the DEVEL5.ZIP package so unstructured?
It's a pity because DEVEL4.ZIP was so well organized and I had to spent a
lot of time to give DEVEL5 the same structure...

By the way, the software we are going to develop will support SoundBlaster and 
SoundBlasterPRO, maybe with volumetric sound or surround.
No matter for us because I wrote some months ago a sound library in assembler 
wich can support mono and stereo sound (real or emulation) under MsDos with the
PC speaker, Covox, Sound Blaster or Sound Blaster Pro (Direct and DMA access).
I say that just if you are interested in some kind of cooperation or source
exchange. The software we are going to develop will be freeware (we are going
to be paid only for the development) and we would give you a full copy, I'm
not sure if sources could be also available.



                                       Luca Chiarabini
				Joves Estudiants D'Informatica
			    Universidad Politecnica de Catalunya
				      Barcelona, SPAIN


From joseph@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Nov 27 13:11:55 1993
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From hhv@rhi.hi.is  Mon Nov 29 23:03:58 1993
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Subject: Splitting headache
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Hi,

   After spending several hours creating the perfect DRAX100 guardian
robot from Andromeda as a PLG object (without the help of CAD progs),
it really annoyed me how the "painter's algorithm" hacked up my 
beastie when I finally loaded into into my space station WLD file.

   HOW can one create a PLG file WITHOUT the visibility errors?  I guess
the answer is "you can't", because one can't place splits into PLG files,
and moving splits are not available anyway.  I want to know what you 
(the other users of Rend386) do when creating complex PLG objects.  Do 
you simply live with the visibility errors, or are there any methods
avoiding them?  

   BTW, I'm very interested in using sounds in my world.  Is there
a MIDI interface available?  

Thanks,

Hannes Hogni Vilhjalmsson
hhv@rhi.hi.is
Computer Science
The University of Iceland

From albertso@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com  Tue Nov 30 00:33:48 1993
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From: albertso@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Rick Albertson x7477)
Message-Id: <9311291800.AA00744@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Virtual Reality Studio to rend386 conversion

I have Virtual Reality Studio Version 2 and have been able to
export some cube-only worlds to rend386.  Am I re-inventing the
wheel?  I currently use a VRS2 command language program to 
check each object defined in a VRS2 area and create a cube
using a modified version of block.plg.  I was hoping to
save this object within rend386 in .plg format, but I
see that if you select multiple objects and then do a 
save object, the .plg file contains descriptions for
multiple objects, not one.  It looks fairly straight
forward to combine these objects but I'm wondering if
I'm off in left field with this one.  Is there an
easy way to combine objects within rend386 to produce
a singel .plg file with a combined object description?

Just wondering. 

Rick

From PATKIN@ECSUC.CTSTATEU.EDU  Tue Nov 30 06:13:07 1993
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From BOWESA@topaz.ucq.edu.au  Tue Nov 30 06:43:05 1993
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Unsubscribe me thanx ... holidays .. :( ....


From eosvcr!eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca!aew@wimsey.com  Tue Nov 30 08:10:02 1993
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From: aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Alan Walford)
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Subject: Need Tel and address for Bernie
Organization: Eos Systems Inc, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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Hi Bernie,

Sorry for using this public forum for getting private mail to
you but I can not seem to get any mail to you via your
e-mail address.

If you see this, Bernie, please e-mail me your telephone number
and full postal address.

Thanks,

Al

-- 
Alan Walford     Eos Systems Inc., Vancouver,B.C., Canada  Tel: 604-734-8655
aew@eosvcr.wimsey.bc.ca           OR        ...uunet!wimsey.bc.ca!eosvcr!aew  

From rmason@WPI.EDU  Tue Nov 30 10:44:27 1993
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To: hhv@rhi.hi.is (Hannes Hogni Vilhjalmsson)
From: virtual.bob@somewhere.someplace.edu
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Rend386 discussion)
Subject: Splitting headache
In-Reply-To: <9311291132.AA12518@hengill.rhi.hi.is>
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>>>>> "Hannes" == Hannes Hogni Vilhjalmsson <hhv@rhi.hi.is> writes:
Hannes>    HOW can one create a PLG file WITHOUT the visibility
Hannes> errors? 

Well, if by "visibility errors" you mean that polygons are not being
drawn, because they aren't in the same plane, 
then...
	The most carefull way of creating a .PLG w/o any vis. errors,
	is by using triangles as one's base polygon.  Of course this
	greatly increases the complexity and therefore will slow rend
	down... 

else...
	could you explain a bit more of what the vis. errors are?

-bob mason
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu
'rend developer et al.



From rmason@WPI.EDU  Tue Nov 30 16:50:31 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: virtual.bob@somewhere.someplace.edu
Subject: developer questions


hello!

I have a quick question for any rend developers out there...

delete_obj(OBJECT *obj)...?!?
- -----------------------------
In the fcn delete_obj, my system will hang on the del_rep() call.
But if I put a getkey() command right before del_rep() then it works
fine.  Once I remove the getkey() it starts to crash again. This is
the only modification I have made to the code.  Has anybody else seen
this?

Also, how many other developers are there out on this list using rend
for some serious coding projects?  I'd like to take a survey... and
maybe we can all share some hints/helps with the rend code.

-bob mason
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu


From spm@atmos.dar.CSIRO.AU  Tue Nov 30 20:37:24 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 12:29:43 +1100 (EDT)
From: Shane McEwan <spm@dar.csiro.au>
Subject: Re: developer questions
To: virtual.bob@somewhere.someplace.edu
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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On Tue, 30 Nov 1993 virtual.bob@somewhere.someplace.edu wrote:

> Also, how many other developers are there out on this list using rend
> for some serious coding projects?  I'd like to take a survey... and
> maybe we can all share some hints/helps with the rend code.

I'll be attempting to write a generic VR client for the PC using REND386
to connect to Unix servers via serial lines in the next few months.
I haven't done any REND386 coding before so you'll probably be hearing a
lot of questions from me soon. *grin*

While I'm here, someone a while back said they had incorporated some sort
of script language into REND386 (Was it TCL?). Can someone point me to
where I can get it? The more functionality I can control with scripts in
my client the better!

--
  Shane McEwan     CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research    spm@dar.csiro.au
===============================================================================
                    Anything that happens, happens.
  Anything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something
                            else to happen.
    Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.
           It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though.

                 - "Mostly Harmless" by Douglas Adams
===============================================================================
Aspendale, Victoria, Australia 3195  Phone: +61 3 586 7503  Fax: +61 3 586 7600
                 Line Noise on ISCABBS (bbs.isca.uiowa.edu)



From fibcls02@lsi.upc.es  Tue Nov 30 23:12:50 1993
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 15:18:20 UTC+0100
From: Luca Chiarabini <fibcls02@lsi.upc.es>
Subject: REND386 & VISIBILITY PROBLEMS
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Hi, I'm interested in how people solve visibility problems using REND386.
I know it's possible to solve almost all the cases with virtual space 
segmentation but... Can it get 100% visibility error free rendering? 
From all user points of view?

Is there any REND386 hacked version based upon Z-buffer instad of paintor
algorithm? If the answer is yes, Is it much slower? 
I dont't think it would be too slow for complex scenes, at least in 
320x200x256 mode, if implemented with 32bits code and data.


						Thanks,
					   Luca Chiarabini

From joseph@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Dec  1 08:06:24 1993
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From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Dec  1 10:00:28 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <6245.9312010052@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Splitting headache
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 0:52:17 GMT
In-Reply-To: <9311291132.AA12518@hengill.rhi.hi.is>; from "Hannes Hogni Vilhjalmsson" at Nov 29, 93 11:32 am
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
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Hannes Hogni Vilhjalmsson said:
>    HOW can one create a PLG file WITHOUT the visibility errors?  I guess
> the answer is "you can't", because one can't place splits into PLG files

One way is to take the polygons from the PLG and put them directly
into a .WLD file (as polyobj statements for example) and then build the
splits around that.  Not an ideal solution though.

I seem to remember that better hiden-surface removal was being
promised for version 6.0, although things have been rather quiet
on development news lately...

>    BTW, I'm very interested in using sounds in my world.  Is there
> a MIDI interface available?  

I had a go at implementing MIDI support a couple of months ago.  I have
some code that works (sort of), but I think there's a problem with
the interrupts, since it tends to crash randomly...  Perhaps a better
way to go would be to start with the serial interface code that's
knocking around and modify that, since a MIDI card can be viewed
as a UART (MPU-401 compatibles can, anyway).

I'm not saying it can't be done (far from it), it's just that I don't
have time to debug what I've already started... :-(


Chris
cph@dmu.ac.uk


From jcollier@alexandra.mtl.com  Wed Dec  1 14:31:09 1993
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From: jcollier@alexandra.mtl.com (John Collier)
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Subject: OS/2 port of REND386
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 13:26:45 -0500 (EST)
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Hi,

Everybody keeps talking about limits to polygons due to memory.  
I think a lot of benefit could come by going to a full 32-bit OS.  OS/2 does
support x mode vga.  I am thinking about trying to port it.  Has anybody else
thought about it?

Benefits:

	OS/2 supports (partially) multiple monitors
	Full 32 bit instruction set
	Flat memory ( no 640 k barrier )
	multiple threads of execution
	...

How 'bout it?
-- 
John Collier						MTL Systems, Inc.
jcollier@mtl.com					3481 Dayton-Xenia Rd.
Office Phone: (513) 426-3111				Dayton, OH 45432-2796
Fax:	      (513) 426-8301

From sdw@meaddata.com  Wed Dec  1 15:13:21 1993
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From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams)
Message-Id: <9312012013.AA21805@jungle.meaddata.com>
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386
To: jcollier@alexandra.mtl.com (John Collier)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 15:13:58 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9312011826.AA29318@alexandra.mtl.com> from "John Collier" at Dec 1, 93 01:26:45 pm
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> 
> Hi,
> 
> Everybody keeps talking about limits to polygons due to memory.  
> I think a lot of benefit could come by going to a full 32-bit OS.  OS/2 does
> support x mode vga.  I am thinking about trying to port it.  Has anybody else
> thought about it?

Linux would be a much better choice!!!!!!

It's very fast, has both raw and X-Windows graphics access, has
dos virtual machine support, full source code for everything,
including the kernal and graphics device access, etc.

It even runs on top of the MSDOS filesystem if needed.  It can access
HPFS systems (read-only so far) also.

It has very fast multiple process support, but no threading that I
know of yet.  Some people are working on a port to Mach, which would
give great threads probably.

TCP/IP, NFS, etc., etc., etc.

As a matter of fact, even if slow it would be great to have a virtual
system that was X-rated and integrate it into Mosaic.  It already
supports hypertext, ftp, gopher, wais, forms, gif, jpeg, mpeg, sound,
etc.  Under X-windows, MS-Windows, and Mac.

> Benefits:
> 
> 	OS/2 supports (partially) multiple monitors
> 	Full 32 bit instruction set
> 	Flat memory ( no 640 k barrier )
> 	multiple threads of execution
> 	...
> 
> How 'bout it?
> -- 
> John Collier						MTL Systems, Inc.
> jcollier@mtl.com					3481 Dayton-Xenia Rd.
> Office Phone: (513) 426-3111				Dayton, OH 45432-2796
> Fax:	      (513) 426-8301
> 


-- 
Stephen D. Williams  Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 513 496-5223APager
LIG dev./sales       Internet: sdw@lig.net CIS 76244.210@compuserve.com
OO R&D Source Dist.  By Horse: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430
GNU Support          ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W I love it when a plan comes together

From lefebvre@pbush.com  Wed Dec  1 15:39:17 1993
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386


	Porting to OS/2 sounds like a cool idea, for the reasons mentioned. 
Plus it would be nice for rend386 to be supportted on multiple architectures.
One point though,  would using a dos extender give us the flat memory model
and 32-bit optmized code that we want.  I realize this does not include threading
or multitasking but it would be a step closer.

	Actually while I am on the subject.  Would 32-bit code significantly
increase our speed?  I would guess yes, but I am not very knowledge-able in this
area.  Having a flat memory would certainly make the memmory management much
easier.  With this all being said, I have never worked with a dos-extender and
anyone more knowledge-able in this area, we would greatly appreciate your 
expertise.

---
  __________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|___(518)452-0927___(518)452-5800___|-USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com_______________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"


From RANDO@WordPerfect.com  Wed Dec  1 18:03:47 1993
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1993 15:38:11 -0700
From: RANDO@WordPerfect.com
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:  Rend386 Data Navigator Idea

I would like to see an app with:

A rear view mirror (#)
Side windows ([ or ])
Message Area (m)
Main (forward) view (=)

all on one screen like this:
[[[[[ =====###===== ]]]]]]
[[[[[ ============= ]]]]]]
[[[[[ ============= ]]]]]]
sssss ============= mmmmmm

The rear and side views are lower resolution, and consider your head
to be a certain distance from the screen.  The message area is a
small text window.  When you move the mouse over a given object, it
will place text in the message window.  Also, a good place for a 'cb'
on a multi-user system.

I would solve the menu issue with touchable objects:  When the mouse
cursor is above the object, it's name appears in the message window. 
You click on the object to activate it.  So say I have an elevator
with different button objects.  There is no text on them, but when I
move the mouse over them I can see what they are.  Say I press the
button for 3rd floor, the elevator moves my viewpoint (or self
object) up to wherever the 3rd floor is.  These buttons would have
a unique appearance, say an anycolor triangle on a blue square, so
they would be easy to identify as touchable.

The side windows and rear view mirror (just windows with the
viewpoint rotated) help give more presence on screen without
additional hardware.

=rando=
(I speak only for myself)


From thinman@netcom.com  Wed Dec  1 21:30:40 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 12:47:52 PST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386

I'd vote for DJGPP.  It's the same ethos, closeness to hardware, etc.
If you want networking etc, tack a TCP access thing to DJGPP and
run NCSA TCP/IP.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From sdw@meaddata.com  Wed Dec  1 21:44:36 1993
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From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams)
Message-Id: <9312012059.AA22010@jungle.meaddata.com>
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386
To: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 15:59:05 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9312012028.AA13583@pbush.com> from "Sting" at Dec 1, 93 03:28:43 pm
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> 
> 
> 	Porting to OS/2 sounds like a cool idea, for the reasons mentioned. 
> Plus it would be nice for rend386 to be supportted on multiple architectures.
> One point though,  would using a dos extender give us the flat memory model
> and 32-bit optmized code that we want.  I realize this does not include threading
> or multitasking but it would be a step closer.
> 
> 	Actually while I am on the subject.  Would 32-bit code significantly
> increase our speed?  I would guess yes, but I am not very knowledge-able in this

Actually, in some cases it can decrease your speed since you are
dealing with 32 bit addresses instead of 16 (depending on memory
model, etc.).  With memory moves, etc., it can increase speed a lot
however, I think.

> area.  Having a flat memory would certainly make the memmory management much
> easier.  With this all being said, I have never worked with a dos-extender and
> anyone more knowledge-able in this area, we would greatly appreciate your 
> expertise.
> 
> ---
>   __________________________________________________________________________
>  /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
> |  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
> |\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
> | \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
> |  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
> |\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
> |-USA World Cup `94-|___(518)452-0927___(518)452-5800___|-USA World Cup `94--|
> |*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
>  \__________lefebvre@pbush.com_______________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
>       	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"
> 


-- 
Stephen D. Williams  Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 513 496-5223APager
LIG dev./sales       Internet: sdw@lig.net CIS 76244.210@compuserve.com
OO R&D Source Dist.  By Horse: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430
GNU Support          ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W I love it when a plan comes together

From RANDO@WordPerfect.com  Wed Dec  1 22:59:17 1993
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1993 15:23:08 -0700
From: RANDO@WordPerfect.com
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:  OS/2 port of REND386 -Reply

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Everybody keeps talking about limits to polygons due to memory.   I
think a lot of benefit could come by going to a full 32-bit OS.  OS/2
does support x mode vga.  I am thinking about trying to port it.  Has
anybody else thought about it?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I have thought about it.  I think it could be structured like this:

(object trees or whatever)
-------------------------------
(rend386 engine)
_______________________________
(BMP|metafile output routines)       ===> 4 memory buffers.

One thread runs the rend386 engine to each buffer in turn.  Your PM
thread simply paints each finished buffer to the screen.  Having more
than 2 buffers will give you some lee-way in timing it all.  Then a
third thread could handle animation concerns.

I think you could get good perfomance from such a system.  I looked
at the release 5 code, but couldn't really figure out how to replace
the render back end to produce something PM would understand (OK, I
really have not graphics programing experience at all.)  But I am
willing to help with Development and Testing of such a port.

=rando=
(I speak only for myself)


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Wed Dec  1 23:00:48 1993
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <27518.9312012247@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 22:47:09 GMT
In-Reply-To: <9312012013.AA21805@jungle.meaddata.com>; from "Stephen Williams" at Dec 1, 93 3:13 pm
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Stephen Williams said:
> Linux would be a much better choice!!!!!!

Linux already has multiverse (see announcement for Linux binaries
on multiverse list).

As far as OS/2 goes -- fine, if you have OS/2!  Porting the code
to a flat memory model woulds be sufficiently difficult that you 
might as well port to GCC with DOS-extender at the same time, which
would benefit all the other OS/2-less people.

There was some talk of attempting a port to GCC last summer; doubtless
running in protected mode with 32-bit code and a flat memory
model would speed things up a bit... but it's probably going to be
a lot of work.

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 Reality is 80 Million polygons/second    | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://qadir.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From dave@kaleida.com  Wed Dec  1 23:58:00 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 15:45:12 -0800
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: dave@kaleida.com (Dave Lundberg)
Subject: RE: OS/2 port of REND386


On a similar note, has anyone tried to build a 32-bit REND386 using
something like WATCOMs compiler ?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Lundberg,                 The question isn't "do machines think",
Kaleida Labs, Inc.              It's "do men think".
dave@kaleida.com                         
(415) 966-0849



From 73547.2772@CompuServe.COM  Thu Dec  2 02:30:32 1993
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From: Peter Brooks <73547.2772@CompuServe.COM>
To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: unsubscribe
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Please unsubscribe me...
 



From rmason@WPI.EDU  Thu Dec  2 05:43:40 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386
In-Reply-To: <9312012028.AA13583@pbush.com>
References: <9312012028.AA13583@pbush.com>




I can't wait for DOS 7.0, when we will have flat-memory...
(it's about time!)

But I agree that a porting of Rend onto multiple platforms would give
it a big boost, esp. imagine for an X-based system! 

But wait! There's already a public-domain X VR toolkit, called
multiverse...

-bob
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu

From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Thu Dec  2 08:00:27 1993
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Date: 	Thu, 2 Dec 1993 09:25:33 -0330
From: Sandy Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: developer questions (fwd)
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On Tue, 30 Nov 1993 virtual.bob@somewhere.someplace.edu wrote:

> Also, how many other developers are there out on this list using rend
> for some serious coding projects?  I'd like to take a survey... and
> maybe we can all share some hints/helps with the rend code.

I plan on bypassing the REND386 state machine animation and hooking up my
own control for my robot simulator world (so I can write code in C++/C
that will control the ACTUAL robot, but test it using rend).

I don't suspect it will be too hard, but will require some additional
sensor operations.
---
Sandy Walsh, B.Sc. - Software Engineer - CORETEC Incorporated

I've been carving you, to see what form you'd take. 
You were hiding in ivory, I just wanted to free your shape ...
	- The Tragically Hip 	(sandy@mercury.cs.mun.ca)





From sdw@meaddata.com  Thu Dec  2 11:41:04 1993
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From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams)
Message-Id: <9312021640.AA26703@jungle.meaddata.com>
Subject: Re: Rend386 Data Navigator Idea
To: RANDO@WordPerfect.com
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 11:40:48 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <scfcba8d.009@WordPerfect.com> from "RANDO@WordPerfect.com" at Dec 1, 93 03:38:11 pm
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I would really like to persue this.  I've been thinking of these types
interfaces for a while.

My immediate interest is a front-end to my LIG (Local Internet
Gateway) to allow users to efficiently navigate local and remote
resources.  This includes email, news, IRC/other chats, gopher, wais,
MUD's, etc.

Preferably, something that ran in DOS, Windows, and Unix would be
great, along with a character version.  The proposal below could even
have a character version.

I severely dislike the navigation and usability of most BBS software.
My multi-window workstation/X setup is far better with real power
tools.  I'd like to provide BBS like accessability with Unix/Internet
power.

I like your keystrokes and I'm sure I'll use them...  Hope you don't mind.

A rendered terminal emulator would be fantastic!  Different channels
to feed text, graphics, and sound to panes, object population and
movement, etc.

> I would like to see an app with:
> 
> A rear view mirror (#)
> Side windows ([ or ])
> Message Area (m)
> Main (forward) view (=)
> 
> all on one screen like this:
> [[[[[ =====###===== ]]]]]]
> [[[[[ ============= ]]]]]]
> [[[[[ ============= ]]]]]]
> sssss ============= mmmmmm
> 
> The rear and side views are lower resolution, and consider your head
> to be a certain distance from the screen.  The message area is a
> small text window.  When you move the mouse over a given object, it
> will place text in the message window.  Also, a good place for a 'cb'
> on a multi-user system.
> 
> I would solve the menu issue with touchable objects:  When the mouse
> cursor is above the object, it's name appears in the message window. 
> You click on the object to activate it.  So say I have an elevator
> with different button objects.  There is no text on them, but when I
> move the mouse over them I can see what they are.  Say I press the
> button for 3rd floor, the elevator moves my viewpoint (or self
> object) up to wherever the 3rd floor is.  These buttons would have
> a unique appearance, say an anycolor triangle on a blue square, so
> they would be easy to identify as touchable.
> 
> The side windows and rear view mirror (just windows with the
> viewpoint rotated) help give more presence on screen without
> additional hardware.
> 
> =rando=
> (I speak only for myself)
> 


-- 
Stephen D. Williams  Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 513 496-5223APager
LIG dev./sales       Internet: sdw@lig.net CIS 76244.210@compuserve.com
OO R&D Source Dist.  By Horse: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430
GNU Support          ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W I love it when a plan comes together

From parkert@rock.concert.net  Thu Dec  2 14:20:12 1993
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Subject: "Ball" input device (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 14:20:06 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> I recall reading about some kind of "ball" 6d input device.  As I recall
> it was about the size of a baseball and you pushed and/or twisted it to 
> move in various directions.  It was also isometric so you could create
> various degrees of movement.
> 
> Could someone out there provide me with more info on this (a phone number
> of where I can order one from would be great).  From what I had read, it 
> sounded like a nice way to go.  Does rend386 support it?
> 

I screwed up the address to the above message the first time so I forwarded
it to the correct one.


-- 
| Terry Parker - parkert@rock.concert.net - Fido 1:151/143 - CI$ 76114,3715 |
| VP R&D CAVU Corp 919-846-9275 fax 846-2107 - Paradoxicon BBS 919-850-9289 |
| "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Steven Wright    | 


From marc@rednet.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec  3 00:48:54 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 09:35:59 EST
From: Marc Nicholas <marc@rednet.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: OS/2 version of Rend386
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Mailer: LeeMail 1.2.4
Message-Id:  <9312020938.aa07524@gate.demon.co.uk>

Hi all...

And then there's the idea of a Macintosh port...no memory problems, inherent 
support for multiple monitors, built-in network access (albeit LocalTalk on 
lower-end machines)...etc...etc...

I'm bound to get flamed for this! :*)



Marc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Nicholas - Technical Manager
RedNet Ltd. - The Mac Networking People

Tel +44 494 513 333                   Fax +44 494 443 374
Mobile +44 850 433 571                Home +44 494 438 925
Internet: marc@rednet.demon.co.uk     AppleLink: RedNet

"Virtual Reality: Just like real life, only the pixels are bigger..."


From robbel@fwi.uva.nl  Fri Dec  3 06:07:09 1993
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From: robbel@fwi.uva.nl (Robert Belleman)
X-Organisation: Faculty of Mathematics & Computer Science
                University of Amsterdam
                Kruislaan 403
                NL-1098 SJ Amsterdam
                The Netherlands
X-Phone:        +31 20 525 7463
X-Telex:        10262 hef nl
X-Fax:          +31 20 525 7490
Subject: Re: developer questions
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 12:06:56 +0100 (MET)

> Also, how many other developers are there out on this list using rend
> for some serious coding projects?  I'd like to take a survey... and
> maybe we can all share some hints/helps with the rend code.

In the little spare time I have I'm developing a low-budget visuali-
sation system based on Rend386 and two Amiga's. I'm currently working
on writing video drivers for Rend386 to access the Amiga's via two
parallel ports. The Amiga's run graphic-server software to draw the left
and right-eye scenes, effectively freeing Rend386 from drawing any
graphics. Connected to the Amiga's are two Sharp LCD mocules (also
in the process of development, though already working) that will
ultimately be built into a HMD. Two PowerGloves act as input devices.
These are both controlled by a 80C32 (the choice of this controller was
_not_ by free will as some of you might remember) which in turn talks to
Rend386 via the serial port.

Some of this is working, most of it is still in development. But it's
fun to work on when the days get shorter...

-- Rob

[] Robert Belleman              robbel@fwi.uva.nl     "If life is a stage,  []
[] Dept. of Computer Systems    robbel@nki.nl          I want some better   []
[] University of Amsterdam                             lighting."           []
[] the Netherlands.                                                         []

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Fri Dec  3 07:23:47 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Fri, 3 Dec 1993 12:23:09 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <4730.9312031218@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: OS/2 version of Rend386
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 12:18:27 GMT
In-Reply-To: <9312020938.aa07524@gate.demon.co.uk>; from "Marc Nicholas" at Dec 2, 93 9:35 am
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
X-Phone-Number: +44 533 551551 ext. 8476
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Marc Nicholas said:
> And then there's the idea of a Macintosh port...no memory problems, inherent 
> support for multiple monitors, built-in network access (albeit LocalTalk on 
> lower-end machines)...etc...etc...

It's been done... I think it's called Gossamer.  It's very rudimentary,
but it does seem to work.  I know nothing more about it.

All this talk of porting REN386 to other platforms seems to be missing
the main issue: it was written to do fast rendering on the *386* and
compatible CPU's.  The critical sections of code are all in assembler.
Lots of the code accesses VGA through the registers.  If you want to 
port this sort of code, you're talking about going a *long* way back
(to the design) before you start coding, rather than just re-compiling
something.

Maybe the next version of Borland C will help with creating a flat
memory space or whatever, but if REND starts using features like that then
I for one will not be doing any more development -- I jumped off the
runaway train of the Borland Upgrade Programme a couple of years ago
when they started bringing out new versions every 3 months and wanted money...


Chris


-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 Reality is 80 Million polygons/second    | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://qadir.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From jcollier@alexandra.mtl.com  Fri Dec  3 08:20:13 1993
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From: jcollier@alexandra.mtl.com (John Collier)
Message-Id: <9312031319.AA11759@alexandra.mtl.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: OS/2 port
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 347

Yea, I though about Unix in general.

I have used Linux, and I like it, but I think it would be a bit more palatable
for the non-Unix world to have something resembling DOS.

I don't want to start a "Mine's better than Yours..." war.  Just my opinion

If you want to port it to Linux.  Great.  I would love to see it also.

Thanks, 

John Collier

From albertso@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com  Fri Dec  3 13:48:00 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 11:18:35 EST
From: albertso@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Rick Albertson x7477)
Message-Id: <9312021618.AA10405@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com>
To: parkert@rock.concert.net, rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Virtual Reality Studio to rend386 conversion

VRS2 is a commercial package from Domark which costs around $75.00

As I understand, it was origionally put out by Dimensions but has
since been transfered to Domark.  

It, not rend386, has a script language (FCL) which allows you to do
some limited software development with it.  It does not support
stereo vision, the power glove but does support Adlib sound.

It should be available via mail order or at a local store.

My impression is that it has a lot of potential but is somewhat
buggy.  It is limited to orthoganal objects and small virtual space
but allows easy connection of each small area.

I do not know the status of bug fixes but am trying to find out.
I hope to use it as a graphic object editor for rend386.

From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Dec  3 14:06:09 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 11:06:15 PST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: OS/2 version of Rend386

Transcribing 8086 code into 386 32-bit mode is a fairly mechanical
process.  The problem with this is a project is that I don't see
how to do it a piece at a time and thoroughly test each piece.
Coding them all and then doing a Big-Bang-Integration would be
a nightmare.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Fri Dec  3 14:55:10 1993
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To: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Dec 93 15:28:43 EST."
             <9312012028.AA13583@pbush.com> 
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 12:12:53 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

About DOS-extenders, I've had bad experiences with them.  Mainly
Pharlap.  (It wiped out my SuperStor partition - twice in the same
week!  I removed SuperStor, and the computer still crashed angd lost chains, etc.!)

Linux isn't exactly the choice for what I view as the general user. 
For example, the general user needs DOS, Win3.1 and OS/2 applications
available at the same time with a 48633 w/4MB Ram and a 120M HD. 
(Okay, so I'm using myself as a general user...  So sue me!)  A DOS
extender can't even RUN under Windows without about 8MB of Ram, and
Linux doesn't do Windows (correct me if I'm wrong).

I may not have OS/2 yet, but I'm planning on getting it in the near future.

Well, once I can free up at least 45M on my 120M HD!

JoshuaS@aol.com

From hugo@hydra.unm.edu  Fri Dec  3 16:01:26 1993
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From: Patrice Cummings <hugo@hydra.unm.edu>
Message-Id: <9312032101.AA22702@hydra.unm.edu>
Subject: meaning of surface specifier?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 14:01:16 -0700 (MST)
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I recently bought Virtual Reality Creations and have begun working
with Rend.  However, I'm confused about something.  The book talks
about the different kind of surfaces and says that the first digit
of the surface specifier indicates the surface type.  A table lists
the meaning of 0-3.  However, several PLG objects that came with
the code have surface specifiers like this:
 
0x8001
0x8002

What kind of surface does an '8' indicate?  I can't find it in the book.
Am I overlooking something?

Thanks for you help,

Patrice
hugo@unm.edu


From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Dec  3 17:07:35 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 10:53:22 PST
In-Reply-To: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
       "Re: Splitting headache" (Dec  1, 10:39pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Sound for Rend386

If you want to do sound under DOS coexistent with rend386,
you have two choices for minimal CPU time: 2-op or 4-op FM synthesis
on the stereo soundblaster-type cards, or the gravis ultrasound.
The former makes a variety of 80s-style synthesized blats.
They don't sound very true; I have a library of 400 2-op
voices in netcom.com:pub/thinman/instr.tar.Z for the curious.

The latter has up to a meg of sample ram, and a 16-channel
stereo mixer chip.  You poke a few registers and it does
all the work, using its own ram.  Plus, you can take a sound
sample and generate versions around you (8 quadrant points)
and pan between them in real-time.  The GUS is absolutely
perfect for this job.  $170 street price around here.
No 16-bit sampling, I think, so you need an SB-type card
to do that.  Under Windows you get all the sound manipulation
software you need to get the job done.  The GUS has a very
nice toolkit; they've done the best job of all sound cards
on documentation.



-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From lefebvre@pbush.com  Fri Dec  3 19:12:30 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: DOS-Extenders (Re: OS/2 port of REND386)


> From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu Thu Dec  2 14:31:25 1993
> To: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
> Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
> Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386 
> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 12:12:53 -0700
> X-Mts: smtp
> Content-Length: 758
> 
> About DOS-extenders, I've had bad experiences with them.  Mainly
> Pharlap.  (It wiped out my SuperStor partition - twice in the same
> week!  I removed SuperStor, and the computer still crashed angd lost chains, etc.!)

	I have never used a dos extender but exactly how would you transform
a simple program to us one?  Or does just linking one in will intercept all
memory calls and use the flat memory model, accessing extended and expanded when
the space is needed?  Do you have to specifically ask for a memory allocation
in the extended and expanded segments?   (I also wonder how this can affect
your disk partition.)

> 
> Linux isn't exactly the choice for what I view as the general user. 
> For example, the general user needs DOS, Win3.1 and OS/2 applications
> available at the same time with a 48633 w/4MB Ram and a 120M HD. 
> (Okay, so I'm using myself as a general user...  So sue me!)  A DOS
> extender can't even RUN under Windows without about 8MB of Ram, and
> Linux doesn't do Windows (correct me if I'm wrong).

	I agree that, although linux may be a great OS, it is not highly available
to most users.  It is unfortunate that the better product is not the one who wins
but who has the biggest adv. campaign.  (My political $.02)   Windose and OS/2
would be a great first step.

	What steps could be taken to improve rendering speed, besides the easy way
out by making the scenes simpler?  I really want to push rend386.  I supposed, 
once the x586's will be readily available it should run alot faster.  Also,
once PCI becomes the standard on motherboards this will greatly improve the
graphics throughput.  I guess I can only dream....

> 
> I may not have OS/2 yet, but I'm planning on getting it in the near future.
> 
> Well, once I can free up at least 45M on my 120M HD!

	Good luck!  [B^)

> 
> JoshuaS@aol.com
> 

---
  __________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|___(518)452-0927___(518)452-5800___|-USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com_______________marc@nick.csh.rit.edu__________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"


From levans@cix.compulink.co.uk  Fri Dec  3 19:16:15 1993
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From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Dec  3 19:44:30 1993
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 16:44:44 PST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: DOS-Extenders (Re: OS/2 port of REND386)

> lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
> I have never used a dos extender but exactly how would you transform

Under DJGPP, the GNU DOS extender, you just compile a 32-bit
mode program from scratch.  You have to recode all assembler from
16-bit instructions to 32-bit instructions.

I develop on BSD386, link the binary program, move it to DOS,
and run it.  Works quite well.  It's the same compiler/assembler/bin
format.  You just have to compile with a different set of include
files and use a different archiver and linker.  

DJGPP uses a very unix-flavored C library.  I have one program that
I build for Unix and DOS on BSD386; Unix uses X and DJGPP talks the
screen directly.


-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From timg@cs.uwa.edu.au  Tue Dec  7 13:40:55 1993
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From: Tim Gill <timg@cs.uwa.edu.au>
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Unsubscribe

Unsubscribe timg@cs.uwa.edu.au

From parkert@rock.concert.net  Tue Dec  7 14:11:30 1993
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X-Disclaimer-2:     Opinions expressed are not necessarily
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Subject: 6D input device for PC?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 0:26:45 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


Someone sent me e-mail saying the "ball" device I was looking for was
no longer made.  He also recommended against the new logitech input
device.

This being the case, what IS the recommended 6d input device of choice
for the PC?  I need it to be something that is on the market (not a
Powerglove, for instance), can be connected to the PC (serial or 
parallel, I'd actually prefer parallel), and costs less than $200
or so.

Oh, and I'd like it to have isometric input.

-- 
| Terry Parker - parkert@rock.concert.net - Fido 1:151/143 - CI$ 76114,3715 |
| VP R&D CAVU Corp 919-846-9275 fax 846-2107 - Paradoxicon BBS 919-850-9289 |
| "Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Steven Wright    | 


From Claudio.Facchinetti@imt.unine.ch  Tue Dec  7 14:42:34 1993
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To: discuss Rend386 <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca> (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Cyberterm: virtual-worlds client/server

I am a new subscriber to this list. Sorry if this question has been
posted already 549657365 (or more) times.

I found an interesting document in sunee.uwaterloo.ca (/pub/netgame/
CYBERTERM) posted in May 1992 by Michael Snoswell. I won't go into
details about the CYBERTERM architecture, but basically it described
a VR-specific protocol between a client and a server (a kind of BBS),
which looked really nice. Michael was ready to release his creation in
the shareware domain by the end of 1992, but I looked and looked and
looked around and didn't find anything related to "CYBERTERM" anymore.
I tried to join Michael by e-mail, but didn't get any answer.

The CYBERTERM PC version was supposed to use REND386 for the graphic
engine, so may be someone in this list knows something about what
happened to Cyberterm.

On the other hand, if something comparable already exists in the REND386
world, I'd be glad to get info on it.


Claudio Facchinetti
facchinetti@imt.unine.ch

From thinman@netcom.com  Tue Dec  7 15:51:30 1993
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Message-Id: <199312040034.QAA26848@mail.netcom.com>
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 16:34:36 PST
In-Reply-To: albertso@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Rick Albertson x7477)
       "Re: Virtual Reality Studio to rend386 conversion" (Dec  2, 11:18am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: albertso@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (Rick Albertson x7477),
        parkert@rock.concert.net, rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Virtual Reality Studio to rend386 conversion

VRS is very simple and limited, but it has a wonderful UI
for doing object creation and placement.  Worth using, at least for that.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.

From @SMTPGATE:JLB0201@PRDC.PRDC.DUKEPOWER.COM  Tue Dec  7 16:09:05 1993
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	id <AA02515>; Fri, 3 Dec 93 20:10:43 -0500
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Date:  Fri, 03 Dec 93 14:28:37
From: <jlb0201@prdc.prdc.dukepower.com>
To: <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: NO SUBJECT

 Subject:
 <rend386>:rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

 GCC/2 for OS/2 v2.3.3 with a date stamp of 5-93 is out. There is no
 documentation on the C Library. I haven't been able to compile a PM
 application, but console appiclations do very well. The source is also
 availible. The executables are zipped at 1.5M, the includes are 800K.
 I have only found it at the OS/2 Shareware BBs in Arlington,VA. However,
 I haven't finished my two month search for software over Internet yet.
 I think MIT compiled it. There could be some nice benefits having
 REND386 on OS/2. Especially if REND386 could utilize OS/2 threading.
 You could even write a VR PMshell and use the PG instead of the mouse.

 Joseph Byrd   work: jlb0201@prdc.dukepower.com
               home: jlbyrd@bix.com



From joshuas@aol.com  Tue Dec  7 16:52:36 1993
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From: joshuas@aol.com
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Message-Id: <9312032235.tn91157@aol.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 22:35:53 EST
Subject: Re: Virtual Reality Studio to...

Don't even bother getting VRS2.  I got it and I was hugely disappointed.

I got it on sale for $65 so I thought I had a good deal.  here are a FEW of
the bugs I've seen:

"Stand-alone" programs don't stand alone
Sound does not compile into "stand-alone" programs
data gets corrupted while saving, is unretrievable (I've lost a couple weeks'
worth of work from this!)
If not on drive C:, behavior is erratic.
If on drive C:, behavior is erratic.
If on a computer not using the flat memory model, behavior is erratic.
If on a computer using the flat memory model, it wants to have a 640k barrier
or it's erratic
and so on...

I urge you NOT to get VRS2.  (I know someone who had no problems with VRS1...
 BTW, there's supposedly a screen grab/hard copy feature, but neither myself
nor my friend could find it!)

JoshuaS@aol.com

From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Tue Dec  7 19:02:56 1993
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Date: 04 Dec 93 00:53:09 EST
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Mac Port/6D Ball
Message-Id: <931204055308_72662.410_DHI19-3@CompuServe.COM>

(I'm putting two replies in one msg to cut down on the number of bad msg
returns I get.)

> Marc Nicholas <marc@rednet.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: OS/2 version of Rend386
> And then there's the idea of a Macintosh port...

 Check out Gossamer. It is available on ftp.apple.com and CompuServe's
Cyberforum. It is written by Jon Blossom. Jon is currently working on adding
the ability to read PLG and WLD files (v5, including animation state machine)
for Version 2. This update will be aimed more at the end user rather than the
programmers. However, there will be more programming material available with V2
as well (maybe even source this time!).

> Terry L Parker -- Personal Account >INTERNET:parkert@rock.concert.net
> Subject:    "Ball" input device (fwd)
> I recall reading about some kind of "ball" 6d input device....

 There are a couple 6D devices out now. Global Devices and Logitech both sell
6D joystick devices that provide 3 axis translation and 3 rotations plus
vibratory feedback and some buttons. Support for the GD 6D controller was added
to rendV4 in the release known as jirend.zip. Support for the Logitech
CyberMand device has been added by Joe Gradecki and will be written up in an
issue of his PCVR magazine.

Jerry Isdale


From helenk@chaph.usc.edu  Tue Dec  7 20:23:57 1993
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Date: Sat, 4 Dec 93 16:21:43 PST
From: Helen Katsoufis <helenk@chaph.usc.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Glove Interface Inquiry
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.2.755050903.helenk@aludra.usc.edu>


Hi Bernie and Dave

I recently got hold of REND386 which was included in the book
Virtual Reality Creations. I'm contacting you because I've had trouble 
making my Powerglove work.

I have built the interface as it is specified in the Appendix. 
I have followed the non-extender cable option by soldering directly
onto the circuit board. As a matter of fact, I have not ripped off the 
initial wires from the board, instead I have used them. However, there 
seems to be a mix-up in assigning them to the appropriate D-25 pins. 
Here's what I've soldered:

RED    - pin7 (+5V from the 7805 regulator)
YELLOW - pin4 (#13 on D-25)
ORANGE - pin2 (#2 on D-25)
GREEN  - pin3 (#3 on D-25)
BROWN  - pin1 (#18 on D-25 and GND from 7805)

the colors correspond to the lower-left corner schematic of p.445
as much as I can figure it out.

The glove has power but it's not detected by REND386. I guess that
I'm close to making the connection, it's just a little thing that's
wrong. The PC hasn't exploded onto my face yet. 
Could it be that the glove was purchased in Tokyo?
        
        -soldering is fine  
        -printer port works
        -devices.cfg file is OK (port and driver)
        -when glove is plugged in, one beep 
        -after issuing the command <rend -g> to test the glove,
        rend386 is <waiting for glove> 

Could you please offer your feedback into this problem?

George Katsoufis
helenk@aludra.usc.edu


From mattis@hotsun.nersc.gov  Tue Dec  7 20:32:56 1993
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Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1993 13:28:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Mattison <mattis@hotsun.nersc.gov>
Subject: Paper...
To: rend386 discussion <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
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	I am doing a paper on Virtual Reality and would like some information. 
First, does anyone know if their is a finished version of Dactyl on the
Internet?  Second, where can I get some people's homebrewed VR games?  You
will be noted in my paper if you contribute unduplicated information. 

Thank you,
Tim Mattison
mattis@hotsun.nersc.gov




From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Dec  7 20:50:48 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Wed, 8 Dec 1993 01:07:22 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <12253.9312080106@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Cyberterm: virtual-worlds client/server
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 1:06:54 GMT
In-Reply-To: <3717100903121993/A05219/NEIMT1/117C1A4A0D00*@MHS>; from "FACCHINETTI" at Dec 3, 93 9:10 am
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
X-Phone-Number: +44 533 551551 ext. 8476
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

FACCHINETTI said:
> I found an interesting document in sunee.uwaterloo.ca (/pub/netgame/
> CYBERTERM) posted in May 1992 by Michael Snoswell.
> [...]
> I tried to join Michael by e-mail, but didn't get any answer.

Michael moved jobs.  He's now at snoswell@guest.adelaide.edu.au.

The cyberterm project is still on-going (very much so).  You can read about
it in issue 11 and 12 (and the forthcoming 13) of PCVR.  For details send
email to pcvr@fullfeed.com.

Chris


From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Tue Dec  7 21:26:24 1993
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From: Sandy Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Radiosity for Rendering?
To: Rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9312060920.A10664-a100000@garfield.cs.mun.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Has anyone thought of using the radiosity method for handling the
rendering problem? From what I understand about this area (little), it's
supposed to offer *very* fast results for initial rendering, and higher
and higher quality on subsequent displays of similiar scenes. It also
requires polygonized scenes which is perfect for REND. I believe it also
eliminates the hidden surface problems without requiring splits.

Anyone?
---
Sandy Walsh, B.Sc. - Software Engineer - CORETEC Incorporated

I've been carving you, to see what form you'd take. 
You were hiding in ivory, I just wanted to free your shape ...
	- The Tragically Hip 	(sandy@mercury.cs.mun.ca)




From rmason@WPI.EDU  Tue Dec  7 22:41:28 1993
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Message-Id: <199312060555.AAA15651@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Calling Menus with Glove Buttons
Cc: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


hello...


just wondering if anyone else has seen this peculiarity...
I'm trying to bring up a menu via a powerglove button, 'A' & 'B' in
my case.  So we've modified some code in sgsppt.c to poll the glove
buttons.  In some cases it works quite well, using the arrow-rocker
buttons to shift the user's view.  But if I try to bring up a menu, via
a do_key call, just like the change view buttons the system hangs.
And I _KNOW_ it's not my menu code, because I can call the menu right
up via the keyboard...  Rend will just crash if I try and use a menu
right after a glove button poll.  argh.

Would _anybody_ have any suggestions?

-bob mason
rmason@wpi.wpi.edu


From levans@cix.compulink.co.uk  Wed Dec  8 02:53:28 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 23:52 GMT0
From: Luke Evans <levans@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: My discovery of rend386
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Reply-To: levans@cix.compulink.co.uk
Message-Id: <memo.85092@cix.compulink.co.uk>


I've just discovered rend386, when I bought the book 'Virtual Reality
Creations' from my local bookstore.  I've been looking for something
like it for a *very* long time and had to put up with less than 
brilliant offerings from other sources.  
I'd certainly like to keep a very close ear to the ground and watch
its development.  Is there an FTP site for obtaining the latest
incarnations?

Luke.


From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Dec  8 09:40:17 1993
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From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <9312081440.AA09331@morse.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Radiosity for Rendering?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 9:40:15 EST
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312060920.A10664-a100000@garfield.cs.mun.ca>; from "Sandy Walsh" at Dec 6, 93 9:13 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> Has anyone thought of using the radiosity method for handling the
> rendering problem? From what I understand about this area (little), it's
> supposed to offer *very* fast results for initial rendering

True, but it has some restrictions:

      - only works well for static scenes; doesn't deal well with motion

      - requires Gouraud shading (which rend386 doesn't do)

> I believe it also eliminates the hidden surface problems without
> requiring splits.

Not as far as I know.  Radiosity is basically a pre-computation of light
intensities on rectangular "patches" (saves the time of doing your lighting
calculations at run-time).  I don't think it has anything to do with hidden
surface removal.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl
        University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
	Mail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca
	Voice:  (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]

From phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au  Wed Dec  8 09:59:34 1993
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From: phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au (Christopher Phillips)
Message-Id: <9312081456.AA06990@rama.ee.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Radiosity for Rendering?
To: sandy@cs.mun.ca (Sandy Walsh)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 22:56:58 +0800 (WST)
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312060920.A10664-a100000@garfield.cs.mun.ca> from "Sandy Walsh" at Dec 6, 93 09:13:20 am
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> Has anyone thought of using the radiosity method for handling the
> rendering problem? From what I understand about this area (little), it's
> supposed to offer *very* fast results for initial rendering, and higher
> and higher quality on subsequent displays of similiar scenes. It also
> requires polygonized scenes which is perfect for REND. I believe it also
> eliminates the hidden surface problems without requiring splits.

Umm.. no. :(

Radiosity is a way of calculating the colours and shading required
for each of the polygons (which should preferably be gourand shaded).
It is entirely separate from the process of then dispaying the
polygons on the screen, and in fact requires you to render the
scene (at a low resolution) as seen from every single polygon
as part of the rendering process.  If your scene is static, then
you can just do the radiosity calculation once and then move
around the scene, in which case it is much faster
than raytracing, and makes more realistic shading.  However,
the initial calculation is actually very slow  (worse than a ray-trace!)
I did my honours project on examining one way of making the
calculations faster, but it is still awfull...

You can just do an aproximate lighting calculation that is then
refined over the timesteps of the animation, but this is still
fairly slow and also means that your lighting lags a little behind
the object movements...


Christopher.

From MEO_G@ECA401.ENEA.IT  Thu Dec  9 04:52:45 1993
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 9 Dec 1993 10:10:58 MET
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1993 10:10:58 +0100 (MET)
From: GIOVANNI MEO <MEO_G@ECA401.ENEA.IT>
Subject: unsubscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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please unsubscribe me from the discussion list

From S304335@pcmail.uni-trier.de  Thu Dec  9 09:40:35 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: "Kloss, Jrg"  <S304335@pcmail.uni-trier.de>
Date:         9 Dec 93 15:39:32 GMT+1
Subject:      Help
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).

Help!

Does anybody knows where I can get Nintendo's PowerGlove and/or
Sega's Shutter Glasses?
I really need them!!!

Joerg

From jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu  Thu Dec  9 16:06:00 1993
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From: "Jeffrey W. Thompson" <jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199312092106.AA12373@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Multi User VR and Wattcp Libraries
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 15:06:04 -0600 (CST)
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Hi,
 This winter break I am planning to begin a compilation of libraries that
 I intend to use in an attempt to create a cyberspace network system.
 I was hoping to use the Wattcp libraries but have been so far unable
 to compile them.  Could someone possibly put them somewhere (ftp anon)
 for me. I would like them compiled under small model.  Thankyou!
				 -Jeff Thompson

Also as an aside.  When I complete the libraries that I am writing I will
be posting them ftp anon along with a synopsis of my plans and work.
Source code will be posted as it is created also.  Thankyou again.

jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu


From jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu  Thu Dec  9 16:10:17 1993
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From: "Jeffrey W. Thompson" <jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199312092110.AA14113@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Multi User VR and Wattcp libraries
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 15:10:19 -0600 (CST)
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 Hi,
 I am attempting to write a set of libraries for a cyberspace networking 
 system I am developing.  I would like to use Wattcp for it,  but have
 been unable to compile the libraries.  If someone could compile
 them under small model for me and tiny model and place them somewhere
 on anon ftp I would greatly appreciate it.  I will also be
 posting my libraries and source code as it develops.  
		     Thankyou for you time,
			Jeff Thompson
			jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu


From czbb020@access.texas.gov  Thu Dec  9 23:24:23 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 22:22:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "Kevin J. Comerford" <czbb020@access.texas.gov>
Subject: Re: Help
To: "Kloss, Jrg" <S304335@pcmail.uni-trier.de>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.931209153932.320@pcmail.uni-trier.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.59.9312092245.D10725@access.texas.gov>


I got both the powerglove and shutter glasses at a local pawn shop for
$10.00 each.  they were in good condition and at least 5 stores in the
Dallas-Fort Worth area carried one or more of each.  Try your local sleaze
hole ("We Loan Money") and I'll bet you can find them.

==============================================================================
Kevin J. Comerford                      |   internet: czbb020@access.texas.gov
Visual Resource Librarian /             | compuserve: 71233,2412
Manager, Collections Information Center |      voice: 214-922-1281
Dallas Museum of Art                    |        fax: 214-954-0174
1717 North Harwood                      |
Dallas, TX 75201                        |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From 73717.3053@CompuServe.COM  Sun Dec 12 22:20:51 1993
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	id <AA01521>; Sun, 12 Dec 93 22:20:51 -0500
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	id WAA14652; Sun, 12 Dec 1993 22:20:47 -0500
Date: 12 Dec 93 22:16:07 EST
From: Joe Mueck <73717.3053@CompuServe.COM>
To: <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <931213031607_73717.3053_CHG44-2@CompuServe.COM>

Hello,
I would like any information regarding REND386, changes and updates.
I am a software analyst with a long time passion for VR.  Up until
now I've been writing most of my 3D toys myself. To much work!
Thanks,
Joe Mueck,
8670 Ridge Mile dr., San Antonio, TX 78239
73717.3053@compuserve.com


From vrman@cscns.com  Mon Dec 13 21:49:00 1993
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	id AA29632; Mon, 13 Dec 93 19:22:31 MST
From: vrman@cscns.com (Michael Favor)
Message-Id: <9312140222.AA29632@cns.cscns.com>
Subject: rend386.doc
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 19:22:30 MST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Dear Sirs:      
    
    I recently acquired your book "Virtual Reality Creations", and
have been very pleased with REND386 version 5.0.  I have the
following questions:
    
    1.  How do I obtain the latest version by FTP, including any
new add-ons, drivers, objects, etc.?  Is there any cost?
    2.  Is the source code available and how?  Is there any cost?
    3.  I built the Sega serial adapter in the book only to find
that the polarity on my serial port's 12v supply (and the switch
pin) appear to be reversed compared to system ground (when REND386
is not running).  Is there a solution for this?  This has not ever
affected any transfer's of data or the operation of the mouse. 
This polarity switch is on both COM1 and COM2.
      4.  The diagram on converting the Sega serial driver card to
a parallel driver card does not specify exactly which diodes and
resistors are to be removed nor if the connections to the pins from
positive and negative change any.  Can you elaborate or do you have
a graphic file diagram.  The 10 uF capacitor is listed but not
shown. 
    5.  You mention that there are commercial versions of adapters
for the Sega glasses and the Power Glove listed in the appendix,
but I do not find any.  Can you give me any sources?
    6.  Do you have a driver version which places a stereo pair in
a top and bottom wide screen arrangement (One picture on top of the
other)?    Special viewers can be cheaply built to view such a
screen.  It would increase the resolution at 1024 * 768 or even 800
* 600.
    7.  Is it possible to make an object or polygon have a "solid" 
attribute like on some other VR products?
    8.  Do you maintain a REND386 INTERNET mailing list for notice
of any updates or enhancements created by yourselves or others?
    
    I would appreciate any help you can give me in these areas.   

                                                                 

From vrman@cscns.com  Mon Dec 13 22:34:37 1993
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	id <AA16948>; Mon, 13 Dec 93 22:34:37 -0500
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	id AA13716; Mon, 13 Dec 93 20:31:51 MST
From: vrman@cscns.com (Michael Favor)
Message-Id: <9312140331.AA13716@cns.cscns.com>
Subject: rend386.doc
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 20:31:50 MST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

Dear Sirs:      
    
    I recently acquired your book "Virtual Reality Creations", and
have been very pleased with REND386 version 5.0.  I have the
following questions:
    
    1.  How do I obtain the latest version by FTP, including any
new add-ons, drivers, objects, etc.?  Is there any cost?
    2.  Is the source code available and how?  Is there any cost?
    3.  I built the Sega serial adapter in the book only to find
that the polarity on my serial port's 12v supply (and the switch
pin) appear to be reversed compared to system ground (when REND386
is not running).  Is there a solution for this?  This has not ever
affected any transfer's of data or the operation of the mouse. 
This polarity switch is on both COM1 and COM2.
      4.  The diagram on converting the Sega serial driver card to
a parallel driver card does not specify exactly which diodes and
resistors are to be removed nor if the connections to the pins from
positive and negative change any.  Can you elaborate or do you have
a graphic file diagram.  The 10 uF capacitor is listed but not
shown. 
    5.  You mention that there are commercial versions of adapters
for the Sega glasses and the Power Glove listed in the appendix,
but I do not find any.  Can you give me any sources?
    6.  Do you have a driver version which places a stereo pair in
a top and bottom wide screen arrangement (One picture on top of the
other)?    Special viewers can be cheaply built to view such a
screen.  It would increase the resolution at 1024 * 768 or even 800
* 600.
    7.  Is it possible to make an object or polygon have a "solid" 
attribute like on some other VR products?
    8.  Do you maintain a REND386 INTERNET mailing list for notice
of any updates or enhancements created by yourselves or others?
    
    I would appreciate any help you can give me in these areas.   

                                                                 

From R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk  Tue Dec 14 05:19:11 1993
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          Thu, 25 Nov 93 18:09:32 GMT
Message-Id: <9311251809.AA09944@suna.lut.ac.uk>
From: Rik the northerner <R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: no prototype/undefined symbol
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 18:09:31 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]


Ok so here is another plea to anyone who can help me:
I am trying to compile the demo4.c program
I am using borland c++ (3.1) and I have tried turbo c
I get 45 warning messages when compiling it all saying the folloing
'call to function xxxxx with no prototype'
for example the call to newobj_list 

It is loading and compiling the header files in.
The header files do contain the prototypes
if I try and cut and paste one of these prototypes into the main file it still  can't remember seeing it and will still come up with the same message.

If I forget that I have got warnings then at link time it will come up with the following type of errors ( lots of them and all thesame kind) 
'UNdefined symbol _??????? in module XXXXX.X'

for example
'UNdefined symbol _SELECT_SEGA_PORT in module demo4.c'

these warnings/errors occur if i compile from the editor/compiler or from the   command line compiler or from the make files I have accquired which are meant to work....

Please can anyone help... I am meant to be developing this software for a final year degree project. ( ie it is quite important)... if anyone is interested I   SHOULD be implemented gravity and the coservation of momentum to a virtual world where objects can collide which each other and objects can have different masses and elasticity values... but then again if I can't get this thing to compile... who knows..
So please any help would be grateful , Ta muchly

Rik


From R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk  Tue Dec 14 05:22:04 1993
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Message-Id: <9311281324.AA01953@suna.lut.ac.uk>
From: Rik the northerner <R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: no prototype and no symbols
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 93 13:24:02 GMT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]



Ok so here is another plea to anyone who can help me:
I am trying to compile the demo4.c program
I am using borland c++ (3.1) and I have tried turbo c
I get 45 warning messages when compiling it all saying the folloing
'call to function xxxxx with no prototype'
for example the call to newobj_list 

It is loading and compiling the header files in.
The header files do contain the prototypes
if I try and cut and paste one of these prototypes into the main file it still  can't remember seeing it and will still come up with the same message.

If I forget that I have got warnings then at link time it will come up with the following type of errors ( lots of them and all thesame kind) 
'UNdefined symbol _??????? in module XXXXX.X'

for example
'UNdefined symbol _SELECT_SEGA_PORT in module demo4.c'

these warnings/errors occur if i compile from the editor/compiler or from the   command line compiler or from the make files I have accquired which are meant to work....

Please can anyone help... I am meant to be developing this software for a final year degree project. ( ie it is quite important)... if anyone is interested I   SHOULD be implemented gravity and the coservation of momentum to a virtual world where objects can collide which each other and objects can have different masses and elasticity values... but then again if I can't get this thing to compile... who knows..
So please any help would be grateful , Ta muchly

Rik


From rayd@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu  Tue Dec 14 10:17:17 1993
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	id AA22130; Tue, 14 Dec 93 09:18:56 EST
Message-Id: <Chameleon.931214091931.rayd@f3b_cep.JHUAPL.EDU>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 09:15:41 PST
Reply-To: rayd@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Ray Dickenson)
From: rayd@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (Ray Dickenson)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: aatomko@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
Cc: bruce_shank@jhuapl.edu
Subject: VESA drivers for REND386

We are interesting in using REND386 at resolutions higher than 320X200.
We have been able to monkey around and get 640X200 in a window at the top of 
the monitor screen.
In "Virtual Reality Creations" a VESA-based video driver for the TI 34010 was 
mentioned.  Is this driver currently available.  What are the latest 
developments in video drivers for REND386 that make use of higher resolution 
modes.


From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Tue Dec 14 14:20:28 1993
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: SIRDS
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 12:21:49 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

I'm thinking of making a VR SIRDS (Single Image Random Dot Stereogram)
program which, at runtime, calculates the dot patterns from a fixed
bitmap.  I have started work and it is pretty fast, but I can't quite
get the 3D info encoded correctly.  Does anyone have any experience
with creating SIRDS, and if so, could you give me just a sample bit of
(pseudo?)code (preferrably Pascal, but C is fine too) which will draw a
dot at coordinate (x,y,z) and uses the array back[i, j] for the fixed background?

Joshua Shagam

From fullfeed!fullfeed.com!pcvr@spool.mu.edu  Wed Dec 15 01:07:55 1993
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	id AA25719; Wed, 15 Dec 93 00:04:18 CST
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 00:04:18 CST
From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
Message-Id: <9312150604.AA25719@fullfeed.fullfeed.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 759


                         PCVR Magazine Support BBS


  PCVR Magazine announces that they have begun operation of a new

Bulletin Board System dedicated to the readers of PCVR magazine as well as

all others interested in Virtual Reality.


  The system is free and is operational 24 Hours a day running at 14.4k.

  We will always have the latest information about PCVR Magazine topics

and source code provided in the magazine.  As code is updated, we will 

post the new versions for everyone to download.

  
  The most recent addition is a recompiled REND386 Version 5.0 with

Cyberman support.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We welcome you all to call: ->  608-877-1017


Joseph D. Gradecki, Publisher



From root@tellab5.tellabs.com  Wed Dec 15 10:12:18 1993
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From: root@tellabs.com (Operator)
Subject: please remove from subscription!
To: glove.list@nas.nasa.gov, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 08:03:06 -0600 (CST)
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Hello everyone:
I recognize that this will probably be distributed to everyone on
the mailing list, but there doesn't appear to be a subscription only
mail-id.  Apologies in advance!

Please remove 
	menelli@tellabs.com
from your mailing lists - he's left the company and his mailbox
is filling up.

Thanks for your help . . .
##########################################################################
#	Cathie Kozik				vc: (708) 512-7276       #
#	Development Manager		   	fax: (708) 512-7099      #
#	Tellabs Operations, Inc.					 #
#	Engineering Computing Facilities                         	 #
#	4951 Indiana Avenue						 #
#	Lisle, Illinois 60532						 #
##########################################################################

From U61500@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU  Wed Dec 15 17:51:08 1993
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From: Happy Together! <U61500@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Unsubscribe
To: MIke Bogucki <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>

I'd like to unsubscribe from the rend386 mailing list. Thanks for the info. I w
ill be resubscribing in the near future though.

From alfred!ocelot!miorl!gbatty@osceola.cs.ucf.edu  Thu Dec 16 09:13:48 1993
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unsubscribe

-- 
****************************************************************************
*  Gregory Batty         *  "On second thought, let's not go to Camelot... *
*  gbatty@miorl.uucp (or)*  it's a silly place."                           *
*  gbatty@ocelot.oau.org *      MP&tHG                                     *
****************************************************************************


From src4src!kilowatt!sss@imageek.york.cuny.edu  Thu Dec 16 15:01:12 1993
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Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 13:35:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S. Spiroff <sss@kilowatt.linet.org>
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> But I agree that a porting of Rend onto multiple platforms would give
> it a big boost, esp. imagine for an X-based system! 
> 
> But wait! There's already a public-domain X VR toolkit, called
> multiverse...
> 
Bob,

Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know where I could get info on
multiverse via mail, or beter yet perhaps an ftp site? I've haven't heard 
of that one yet, i'm a newbie in the vr world.


From src4src!kilowatt!sss@imageek.york.cuny.edu  Thu Dec 16 15:39:36 1993
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Subject: ftp site?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 15:03:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S. Spiroff <sss@kilowatt.linet.org>
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Can anyone point me in the direction of an ftp site (or, i guess, dialup)
that has the latest rend386 devlopment package? I'm just getting in vr
through VR Creations and I understand that there is a developers toolkit
or some such thing. I have some nifty ideas for vr applications and would
like to do simple prototyping.



From pulkka@cs.washington.edu  Thu Dec 16 19:08:42 1993
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 16:08:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Kaleva Pulkka <pulkka@cs.washington.edu>
Sender: Aaron Kaleva Pulkka <pulkka@cs.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Aaron Kaleva Pulkka <pulkka@cs.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386
To: "Steven S. Spiroff" <sss@kilowatt.linet.org>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <m0pANYM-0014X7C@kilowatt.linet.org>
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On Thu, 16 Dec 1993, Steven S. Spiroff wrote:
> Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know where I could get info on
> multiverse via mail, or beter yet perhaps an ftp site? I've haven't heard 
> of that one yet, i'm a newbie in the vr world.

Sure!  Try ftp.u.washington.edu in /public/virtual-worlds/multiverse/

There are two files there.

	multiverse-1.0.2.tar.Z - official release, Apr 5 1993

	multiverse-1.0.3.tar.Z - unofficial release, Sep 24 1993
                                 (includes imake support)

If the author (Mason) has a more recent version, he should let me know, 
so I can put it on the ftp site!

Regards,

	AKP, scivw co-mod.

-- - -  -  -   -   -    -    -     -     -     -    -    -   -   -  -  - - --
  Aaron Kaleva Pulkka <pulkka@cs.washington.edu>      CSE graduate student
     MUD aliases: teklon@kobra, kaleva@others       HITLab research assistant
 sci.virtual-worlds & rec.arts.cinema co-moderator    ACM chapter treasurer



From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Dec 16 22:38:17 1993
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	id <AA10975>; Thu, 16 Dec 93 22:38:17 -0500
Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Fri, 17 Dec 1993 03:38:01 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 03:37:32 GMT
Message-Id: <19957.9312170337@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: UK VR-SIG: Midlands chapter

          
           UK VIRTUAL REALITY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP 


           ANNOUNCING THE UK-VRSIG MIDLANDS CHAPTER


The UK-VRSIG is a group of academics and professionals who
work with and/or study the tools, effects and implications
of Virtual Reality.  The group was set up to improve communication
between groups of workers and researchers, to allow sharing of
facilities and to promote interchange of ideas.

The newly-formed Midlands chapter of the UK-VRSIG will bring
together VR people throughout the area: Derby, Leicester, 
Loughborough, Nottingham etc.

It is expected that meetings will take place on a regular (-ish)
basis, in the form of both face-to-face meetings/seminars, evenings
down the pub and on-line "virtual meetings".

                     *  *  *

           WHAT TO DO IF YOU WANT TO JOIN

In the first instance contact Chris Hand (e-mail preferably),
giving details of your institution/company and its physical
location.  When the amount of interest has been judged, steps
will be taken to arrange the first meeting.

The current objective is to have at least one meeting, be it
virtual or physical, before Christmas.


                     *  *  *


Any queries may be addressed to:

	Chris Hand, Dept of Computing Science,
	De Montfort University, The Gateway, Leicester, LE1 9BH

	Fax: 0533 541891
	e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Dec 16 22:41:00 1993
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Fri, 17 Dec 1993 03:38:18 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 03:37:50 GMT
Message-Id: <20040.9312170337@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: UK VR-SIG: Midlands chapter


                   UK VR-SIG MIDLANDS CHAPTER

                     >>> First Meeting! <<<


OK, time to get together.  It has been decided (by me) that we 
should meet next week:

	Tuesday, 21st December at 6pm 

The venue, chosen carefully by a psychologist especially
for this event (no doubt due to the ability to conduct on-site
experiments into the perception of reality) will be:

	Marquis of Wellington Pub
	139 London Road, Leicester
	Tel. (0533) 555833

	(About 5-10 mins walk up London Rd from railway station,
	just past the church on the corner of University Rd.)

A VR group *has* to be multidisciplinary... hence psychologists, 
philosophers, dancers, media-types, even civil engineers are welcome! ;-)
Please bring anyone along who's interested.

Preliminary agenda:

	1. Introductions
	2. Aims of the group
	3. Identifying interests within the group
	4. Structure/organisation, Communication
	5. Other business
	6. Next meeting

	
If anyone has any serious objections to the venue/date then please
let me know *now*, and if there's enough reason to do so then we can change
it to somewhere else.  If you need a map I can e-mail/fax/post you one.

Non-Leicester people: why not come to Leicester in the afternoon 
and do your Xmas shopping...?  

See you there! 


Chris


--
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald" | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://qadir.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From czbb020@access.texas.gov  Thu Dec 16 23:11:35 1993
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 22:11:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Kevin J. Comerford" <czbb020@access.texas.gov>
Subject: ftp site?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <m0pAOul-0014X7C@kilowatt.linet.org>
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.59.9312162253.A27018@access.texas.gov>


Ditto on the FTP site info.  Could someone on the list broadcast the ftp
address(es) for VR info and files to everyone on the list?

==============================================================================
Kevin J. Comerford                      |   internet: czbb020@access.texas.gov
Visual Resource Librarian /             | compuserve: 71233,2412
Manager, Collections Information Center |      voice: 214-922-1281
Dallas Museum of Art                    |        fax: 214-954-0174
1717 North Harwood                      |
Dallas, TX 75201                        |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From hole@zombie.oulu.fi  Fri Dec 17 01:06:29 1993
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 please unsubscribe me from the discussion list
 


From meo_g%39.401.SPAN@span-gw.uchicago.edu  Fri Dec 17 09:54:53 1993
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From: meo_g%39.401.SPAN@span-gw.uchicago.edu (GIOVANNI MEO)
To: 7188"lasr::rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"@span-gw.uchicago.edu
Subject: unsubscribe

 please unsubscribe me from the discussion list

From tk@dixi.atlas.de  Fri Dec 17 09:42:55 1993
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 15:40:40 GMT
From: tk@dixi.atlas.de (Tim Krumnack EZB2 x3605)
Message-Id: <9312171540.AA18525@dixi.atlas.de>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: OS/2 port of REND386



> Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know where I could get info on
> multiverse via mail, or beter yet perhaps an ftp site? I've haven't heard 
> of that one yet, i'm a newbie in the vr world.

 It can be found on  ftp.u.washington.edu    [140.142.56.2]

 pub/user-supported/virtual-worlds/multiverse

 Timm Krumnack

From hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca  Fri Dec 17 15:11:53 1993
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 15:08:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Henderson u <hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject: Multiverse
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I'm not exactly a newbie to VR, but what is multiverse?


Just trying to find some info....

Rick Henderson
hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca

aka  I need a sig.





From 72662.410@CompuServe.COM  Sat Dec 18 00:30:50 1993
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Date: 18 Dec 93 00:28:22 EST
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: ftp sites list
Message-Id: <931218052821_72662.410_DHI30-3@CompuServe.COM>

> "Kevin J. Comerford" >INTERNET:czbb020@access.texas.gov
 Kevin wanted a broadcast to the list of the ftp sites to check out on VR
stuff. Ok here are two sites to check: 
  sunee.uwaterloo.ca pub/vr or pub/rend386
  ftp.u.washington.edu public/virutal-reality or public/VirtualReality

When you get there, download the file whatisvr.txt (or the .rtf file if you
have a word processor that handles RTF files). That doc contains a long list of
FTP sites, newsgroups, local area interest groups, books, etc. It also provides
a solid foundation in VR Technology.

The doc and all its info is public domain and freely distributable.

Jerry Isdale

From MEO_G@ECA401.ENEA.IT  Mon Dec 20 09:16:03 1993
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 20 Dec 1993 15:15:17 MET
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 15:15:16 +0100 (MET)
From: GIOVANNI MEO <MEO_G@ECA401.ENEA.IT>
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 please unsubscribe me from the discussion list


From kohnh@cpark3po2.ads.com  Wed Dec 22 17:41:22 1993
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please put me on the rend386 mail list.
thanks
hk

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SUBSCRIBE


From kerensky@aol.com  Thu Dec 30 04:08:28 1993
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subscribe

From andrey@ugcs.caltech.edu  Sat Jan  1 01:55:36 1994
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From: andrey@ugcs.caltech.edu (Andre Yew)
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Subject: Question/Bug in sphere_pretest()
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1993 22:55:34 -0800 (PST)
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	Hi everyone,

	I'm not subscribed to the list yet (just sent out a request
for doing so), but I have a question.  Going over sphere_pretest()
in intmathx.c from devel5.zip, I found some funky code after the
in: label.

1.  On line 403, there is a "mov eax, edx", but on line 410, there's
a "mov eax, x".  Edx never gets used, so why save it?  Mov doesn't
affect any condition flags either ...

2.  The codeblocks in lines 410, 417, 424 are all the same!  I assume
from the comment that this is suppose to compute the approximate
distance, but it just does 3*abs(x - sx).  BTW, that's a really neat
way to get abs :).

	Thanks for any help, and happy new year!

--Andre


From chrisb@well.sf.ca.us  Mon Jan  3 02:16:00 1994
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Date: Sun, 2 Jan 1994 23:15:57 -0800
From: Chris Bennett <chrisb@well.sf.ca.us>
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe


From lawppw@gsusgi2.gsu.edu  Thu Jan  6 05:58:30 1994
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From: lawppw@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Patrick Wiseman)
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      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
      *  Patrick Wiseman                          Only connect! *
      *  lawppw@gsusgi2.gsu.edu                   E.M.Forster   *
      *  404-651-2063 (voice)  404-651-2092 (fax)               *
      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sat Jan  8 20:40:08 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sat, 8 Jan 1994 13:27:12 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 94 13:27:15 GMT
Message-Id: <18940.9401081327@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: REND386/Home-brew VR on the Web


For those of you who use the World-Wide Web (WWW), you can
access my (growing) collection of stuff related to DIY-VR
and REND386 using your favourite browser.

The URL is http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/vrstuff.html

(if you've visited my web before please note that the address has
changed.)

The archive includes copies of papers/posters, info about VR SIG's in
the UK, useful PC software and a collection of stuff to do with
the Menelli box (including free HC11 assemblers and downloaders as
well as a version of REND386 that works with a Menelli box).

Enjoy!

Chris

From dd77546@aol.com  Sat Jan  8 21:22:35 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 94 21:22:25 EST
Subject: Autocad 

Does anyone know of the location of some 3-D Autocad models of aircraft?  

From millere@student.msu.edu  Sun Jan  9 20:55:20 1994
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From: Paul Eric Miller <millere@student.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <9401100151.AA23460@student5.cl.msu.edu>
Subject: .pcx screen capture problem
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 1994 20:51:53 -0500 (EST)
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When using the screen save option in REND38, my results are quite
gobbled, as if the contents of the pic have been broken up and
smeared around. Has anyone run across the same problem and have a
solution to this?


From casaccia@TOSMD3.CSELT.STET.IT  Mon Jan 10 04:34:06 1994
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Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 10:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: casaccia emilio <casaccia@TOSMD3.CSELT.STET.IT>
Subject: unsuscribe
To: REND386@SUNEE.UWATERLOO.CA
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Please, unsuscribe me.
Thx, Emilio.

From atanatos@dsiaq6.ing.univaq.it  Mon Jan 10 05:39:42 1994
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From: atanatos@dsiaq6.ing.univaq.it (Alessandro Di Michele)
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe atanatos@dsiaq1.ing.univaq.it

thanks! bye!

From lepautre@aol.com  Wed Jan 12 03:36:40 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 94 02:41:38 EST
Subject: .PLG Conversion Programs

I am looking for programs to convert popular 3-D drawing programs to .PLG
format -- any suggestions???

From atanatos@dsiaq6.ing.univaq.it  Wed Jan 12 06:03:58 1994
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From: atanatos@dsiaq6.ing.univaq.it (Alessandro Di Michele)
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me
Thx , atanatos@dsiaq1.ing.univaq.it

From hart@cse.bridgeport.edu  Wed Jan 12 16:49:37 1994
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	Hello, I just bought the book virtual reality creations.  Rend386
	is really good, especially with the Fresnel viewer.  I'd like as
	much information you can send me about rend386 and also about
	building a HMD.  I'm a computer engineering student at the 
	University of Bridgeport.
		Thanks
			David E. Hart


From 00serfle@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca  Thu Jan 13 12:47:38 1994
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From: 00serfle@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca (SERFLEK  CHRISTOPHER SCOTT)
Message-Id: <9401131751.AA22282@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca>
Subject: info requests
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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When people ask for info (ex how to build HMD) will every one recive it
or will it go directly to that person.  I would be interested in
recieving all the info possible.  Is there a GUI front end for REND386
avalible, for dos or windows.

chris serflek

From AFANH@STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV  Thu Jan 13 22:59:14 1994
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Date:    Thu, 13 Jan 1994 17:44:33 -0500 (EST)
From: AFANH@STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Message-Id: <940113174433.38a1ad2c@STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV>
Subject: send help
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"

send help

From M.Hull3@lut.ac.uk  Fri Jan 14 01:20:03 1994
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From mwhite@aol.com  Sun Jan 16 12:56:48 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 94 09:33:15 EST
Subject: Sega Interface

First Hello to everyone on the list.

Open question about the SEGA glasses interface diescribe in virtual reality
creations.

In the textm the circuit diagrams and acompanying text are vauge. Figure B-1
ref's connections to D3 and D4 to the Sega driver. Figure B-3 only ref's D3.

Since I have the glove on a parallel device, I would also like the Sega
glasses on the parallel port, this will keep everything in the same box.

The disconnect occurs, there are three overlapping interfaces described. They
are:

    1) Sega Driver w/Sega module
    2) Serial Port LCD Glasses Driver, and
    3) Printer Port LCD Glasses Driver.

Are the Sega glasses always attached to the module?

And then regardless of the interface serial or parallel the module is
modified?

I am guessing because I have not yet located a pair of Sega glasses to
examine.

Anyone who has successfully built the printer interface or has insight please
respond.  

I can also be reached directly at MWHITE@AOL.COM.

Thanks to all in advance. Michael White.

From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Mon Jan 17 06:17:27 1994
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Subject: rend stuff
From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
Message-Id: <2c.10736.229.0CB1CAE0@medinfo.jax.fl.us>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 94 23:10:00 +0000
Organization: Medical Informations


I am doing a a new app and am having some trouble when moving stuff
around once in the Virtual Enviornment.  The prob is the more I move
stuff the more out of wack the object gets.  Its almost like its warping
all out of shape.  I saw something about this in the docs but not sure
what to do about it.  Any help??  Using ver 5.

I have a second ? also - When An object is selected I need to know the
name.  Better yet if there is a way to assign names to the objects as
they are read in would be optimum.  For example in a .wld file:

object test=plgfile 1,1,1 0,0,0 100,1,100

I want to be able to click on the object and get back the name of like
test or if no descriptor then the plgfile name.  Is this possible and
how??

Todd Porter

---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From 70233.1552@CompuServe.COM  Mon Jan 17 17:13:45 1994
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	id PAA11637; Mon, 17 Jan 1994 15:38:45 -0500
Date: 17 Jan 94 15:32:14 EST
From: "Mark T. Pflaging" <70233.1552@CompuServe.COM>
To: VRASP Mailing List <vrasp@vizlab.rutgers.edu>
Cc: Alex <devin@seas.gwu.edu>,
        REND386 Announce List <rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>,
        Sharon Davison <DAVISON@alexandria-emh2.army.mil>,
        GloveList <glove-list@boxer.nas.nasa.gov>,
        Lamar Henderson <HENDERSON@cua.edu>,
        Jennifer Kankiewicz <60KANKIEWICZ@cua.edu>,
        Michael Ogrinz <71573.3153@CompuServe.COM>,
        Greg Paulson <gpp@po.cwru.edu>
Subject: VRASP: First Meeting of Potomac VRASP Chapter
Message-Id: <940117203214_70233.1552_CHV49-2@CompuServe.COM>

                The Potomac Chapter of
                        VRASP
              The Virtual Reality Alliance
              of Students and Professionals

Announces its first meeting on Wednesday, January 26 at 
7:30 PM in Koubek Auditorium (Crough Hall) on the Campus 
of Catholic University in the District of Columbia.  See
a demonstration of 3D Virtual Reality controlled with a
Power Glove, and engage in lively conversation with peers
and local experts in the field!  Anyone interested in
Virtual Reality can attend.  Students from George Washington
University, Catholic University, Georgetown, American
University, and George Mason University are especially
encouraged.  Refreshments will be provided.  Call 
(703)-658-1416 for more information.



From 00serfle@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca  Tue Jan 18 12:02:36 1994
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From: 00serfle@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca (SERFLEK  CHRISTOPHER SCOTT)
Message-Id: <9401181705.AA19315@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: Interesting ad...
To: RADWANJC@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:05:05 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <01H7R2SD6Y2A007JWY@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu> from "Jeremy C. Radwan" at Jan 16, 94 11:21:38 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17]
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Content-Length: 1208      

> 
> I was looking through the current issue of WiReD magazine (2.02) and found an
> ad for MultiMediums USA on page 111. 
> 
> In it they advertise:
> 
> PowerGlove - for realistic object manipulation within virtual worlds. includes
> parallel port adapter. ($199) [limited supply]
> 
> Is it just me, or is that a bit on the expensive side, even WITH the parallel
> adapter? I mean, I know for those PG enthusaists overseas who can't get gloves
> easily it might be something, but I have to scoff at this considering I got my
> glove for $15 at Toys-R-Us.
> 
> Just an interesting tidbit of information.
> 
> Oh, in case you need it, the number for this place is: 1-800-369-4702.
> 
> ----                                                            _    _  F
> Compensate me...       | Jeremy C. Radwan                   |   |    |   L
> Animate me...          |   RADWANJC@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu  |   |  --|-   Y
> Complicate me,         |   jradwan@udcps3.cps.udayton.edu   |   |__|_| |   E
> Enervate me.           |   ag154@cleveland.freenet.edu      |      |   |    R
>   -- RUSH, "Animate"   |   ab057@dayton.wright.edu          |      ----      S
> 
yes it is alot.  I picked mine up for $25 Cdn.



From 00serfle@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca  Tue Jan 18 12:46:47 1994
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From: 00serfle@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca (SERFLEK  CHRISTOPHER SCOTT)
Message-Id: <9401181750.AA22723@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca>
Subject: GUI
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 12:50:15 -0500 (EST)
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Hello

i recently asked if any one knew of a front-end GUI for REND386.  Some
one replied that they knew of some developing one.  I erased that
message by accedent.  Could you please send that address again thank
you.

chris serflek


From mwhite@aol.com  Tue Jan 18 16:36:31 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 22:14:45 EST
Subject: Glove Problems

Hello to everyone on the list....

I recently built the Power Glove interface as described in the text. Upon
starting the software the message "waiting for glove" appears and nothing
else happened.

As long as your wiring is correct and you made the corrections in the .cfg
file your glove should come up.

If not, look for IRQ conflicts. Its really simple, LPT1 and LPT2 are
associated with IRQs 7 and 5 respectively. Although printing does not require
an IRQ the IRQs may be used by some other device.

In my case I have an ProAudio Spectrum sound card. It is configured to use
IRQ 10 and also, IRQ 7 for Sound Blaster emulation.

In my config.sys I simply disabled Sound Blaster Emulation, problem solved.

I hope this is useful to others. 

From jam@mod.dsto.gov.au  Tue Jan 18 20:55:53 1994
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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 12:27:05 CST
From: jam@mod.dsto.gov.au (Jason MacFarlane)
Message-Id: <9401190157.AA18711@mod.dsto.gov.au>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: TECH: Request for cheap body suit and tracking ideas

This does not really relate directly to Rend386 although I will be using it
but there may be people who read this that know the info I am after.

For my final year project this year (Comp. Sys. Engg. degree) I will be 
designing and building a VR body suit, the HMD has been built in previous
years but the tracking will have to be re-done.

The group will consist of myself and 2 or 3 others, and we have until the
end of the year to complete, or attempt to complete, the project. One of
the factors affecting what we actually do is budget (ie quite limited)

What I am seeking is any information of cheap methods that are currently
being used or suggestions on what could be tried, and if possible some
idea on cost. From the readings that I have done I know of a few body suit
methods (eg optical fibres, resistive coated materials etc) but I do not
have much of an idea on cost.

Also any suggestions on cheap tracking methods would be appreciated.

Replies can be sent to jam@mod.dsto.gov.au

Thanks in advance.

Jason.

From lam@brahms.udel.edu  Tue Jan 18 22:40:44 1994
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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 22:39:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Leanne Angel Matula <lam@brahms.udel.edu>
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I would like to be on your mailing list..Thank You.



From mwhite@aol.com  Wed Jan 19 03:40:39 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 01:59:30 EST
Subject: Glove Problems -- correction

I sent an earlier message regarding IRQs and the Glove. After going back over
my notes, IRQ conflicts are not necessarily the problem.

I started with the device drivers being loaded in my config.sys and commented
them out one at a time and rebooted, prior to each test of rend386. Nothing
was changed.

I then repeated the process with the autoexec.bat. There were two things with
affected the rend386 program. I use RIGHTIME to correct the CMOS and DOS
clocks. This must be disabled otherwise rend386 runs slowly. It does bother
the Glove itself.

The problem was caused by QVTNET it is a windows telnet / terminal emulation
driver. I use it to login to my UNIX host via SCO UNIX/TCP/IP. I had to
comment out QVTNET.

It appears that I am going to have to go to multiple configurations to
support all of my systems or learn OS/2.

So all in all, my system setup up is complex, I would suspect that my fellow
experimenters/researchers are in similiar situations. Finding the offending
driver/TSR is a trial and error process.

I hope this helps.

Somebody out there find me a pair of SEGA glasses. :-)




From david_mcintire_at_qms-cts@ccmail1.rd.aqm.com  Wed Jan 19 09:12:57 1994
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From: david_mcintire_at_qms-cts@ccmail1.rd.aqm.com
Message-Id: <9400197589.AA758996033@ccmail1.rd.aqm.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Glove Problems


          Hello to everyone on the list....

          I recently built the Power Glove interface as described in the 
          text. Upon starting the software the message "waiting for glove" 
          appears and nothing else happened.

          As long as your wiring is correct and you made the corrections in 
          the .cfg file your glove should come up.

          If not, look for IRQ conflicts. Its really simple, LPT1 and LPT2 
          are associated with IRQs 7 and 5 respectively. Although printing 
          does not require an IRQ the IRQs may be used by some other device.

          In my case I have an ProAudio Spectrum sound card. It is 
          configured to use IRQ 10 and also, IRQ 7 for Sound Blaster 
          emulation.

          In my config.sys I simply disabled Sound Blaster Emulation, problem 
          solved.

          I hope this is useful to others. 

If you don't have an LPT2:, you may be better off configuring your Sound Blaster
emulation for IRQ5.  In this configuration, I have only had one conflict, and 
that was with poorly-written software that did not allow IRQ re-configuration.

From csm5337@hertz.njit.edu  Thu Jan 20 09:08:44 1994
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From: csm5337@hertz.njit.edu (Reggae Ambassador)
Message-Id: <9401201408.AA10744@hertz.njit.edu>
To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re:  REND386/Home-brew VR on the Web

Chris,
	How do I get to your Web, from internet.

...Conrad

From craig_a@holonet.net  Thu Jan 20 22:45:20 1994
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Subject: which is newest source code?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 19:42:05 PST
From: "Craig W. Anderson" <craig_a@holonet.net>

Which is the newest source; /pub/rend386/devel5.zip or
                            /pub/rend386/versions/devel4-cl.zip ???

Thanxxx


From cs199418@comp.hkp.hk  Fri Jan 21 08:04:29 1994
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From underdog!SHAPIRO@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za  Sat Jan 22 08:03:16 1994
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    _/_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/     Jonathan Craig Shapiro
       _/      _/         _/            Wits University
      _/      _/         _/_/_/_/       Electrical Engineering
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_/_/_/      _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/         shapiro@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za






From Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com  Sat Jan 22 10:06:17 1994
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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 09:01:57 CST
From: Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: DIS
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: 


 Does anyone out here now where I can find some FTP'able docs on
DIS. I here it is the way to go when it comes to VR Network apps.
                                                   
Purpose:

I am currently using Rend386 as my 3D engine in a modem to modem
real-time game. I can connect and sync with different CPU speeds
and keep the TWO separate worlds completely syncronized with each other.

I am not using dead reck. like DIS does or syncing through CPU clock
readings ... But would like to do so.
I really don't need ALL of what DIS has built into it .... But I would
like to read more about how DIS builds its packets and what the packets
consist of .....

Any help would be great !!!!!! 

Steve Cox



From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jan 22 11:44:19 1994
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9401221546.AA13262@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: What's up with REND386
To: rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 10:46:55 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


It's been a while since the last release of REND386, and I've received
mail from a number of people who have been wondering what's up.

Several months ago, Dave Stampe and I were discussing future directions for
REND386.  We both noticed several things:

   - not very many applications were being written using REND386
   - not very many people (other than Dave and myself) were adding to REND386
   - it was difficult, even for us, to enhance REND386 in its present form

These problems could all be traced back to the sheer complexity of the source
code.  REND386 grew (and grew, and grew) and many of its features were added
as an afterthought, not part of the original design.  In short, REND386 had
become a messy program.

There are good reasons why this is the case.  Back when we first started
working on REND386, neither Dave nor I knew much about computer graphics;
we do now!   And knowing what we know now, there are a number of things that
we would do differently if we had it to do all over again.

Although Dave and I both realized what the problems were, we ran up against
a fundamental disagreement about how to solve them.  Dave felt that we should
build on the existing REND386 foundation, and spend time cleaning up and
reorganizing the existing code.  I felt that it would be better to do a
complete rewrite from scratch, using what we've learned with REND386 to
produce a better, perhaps even faster rendering engine.

Since it's impossible to follow both those approaches at once, and since both
Dave and I can be very strong-willed at times, we've come to a parting of the
ways.

[Another factor that entered into the decision was that Dave and I had
been having disputes about who wrote what, and the relative amounts each of
us had contributed; this created some strain in our working relationship.]

What does all this mean for the future of REND386?  Well, three things are
going to happen.  First, Dave is proceeding with his reorganization of the
code, and will be renaming it and putting his copyright on all the modules
he rewrites.

Second, I'll be finishing up my work on a simplified API for REND386, which
will hopefully make it easier to program with; this will be released in
about a month's time as REND386 version 6.  It's safe to say that this 
will be the *final* version of REND386.

Third, I'll be proceeding with developing a new rendering engine.  My own
goals are as follows:

   - make it easy to develop applications with
   - make it more portable than REND386 (to other compilers and platforms)
   - add new features that were difficult or impossible to add to REND386

Both Dave and I are eager to get other programmers involved with what we're
doing; if you're an interested (and *experienced*) programmer and have some
time to spend on a project, feel free to get in touch with either or both
of us.

At this point, some of you will be feeling a bit like kids in a divorce.  While
that can't be helped, keep in mind that both your parents will be happier
and more productive in the future than they have been lately.

Smile!


From mcglincy@cs.Buffalo.EDU  Sat Jan 22 14:19:48 1994
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From: matthew s mcglincy <mcglincy@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
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Unsubscribe

From knights@gov.on.ca  Sat Jan 22 14:13:34 1994
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From: knights@gov.on.ca (Shawn Knight)
Message-Id: <9401221835.AA08694@govonca.gov.on.ca>
Subject: Wow, that was fun
To: rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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wow, I posted that last message to rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca and
every mailer in the world wanted to talk to me!
 
I thinks the distribution list should be cleaned up a tad?
 
(can't wait for this one to bounce around the world and back!)

-- 

From knights@gov.on.ca  Sat Jan 22 13:43:27 1994
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From: knights@gov.on.ca (Shawn Knight)
Message-Id: <9401221808.AA07137@govonca.gov.on.ca>
Subject: Re: What's up with REND386
To: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Bernie Roehl)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 13:08:27 EST
Cc: rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9401221546.AA13262@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>; from "Bernie Roehl" at Jan 22, 94 10:46 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 
> Both Dave and I are eager to get other programmers involved with what we're
> doing; if you're an interested (and *experienced*) programmer and have some
> time to spend on a project, feel free to get in touch with either or both
> of us.
> 
> At this point, some of you will be feeling a bit like kids in a divorce.  While
> that can't be helped, keep in mind that both your parents will be happier
> and more productive in the future than they have been lately.
> 
> Smile!


Hi Bernie!   Uhh, I'm confused.  Does this mean there are going to be two
rendering packages now?  Vr-386 and Rend386 version 6.0?

-- 

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sun Jan 23 14:36:19 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sun, 23 Jan 1994 19:10:10 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 19:10:11 GMT
Message-Id: <2984.9401231910@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Thanks!
Cc: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, dstampe@psych.utoronto.ca


We all owe Bernie and Dave a very big THANK YOU for the hard work and
long hours they put in on the REND386 project over the past couple of
years.

Although it's rather sad to hear the project is in effect no more,
it's also exciting to hear that things are taking new directions.

Thanks again guys, and good luck for the future.  Home-brew VR wouldn't
be anywhere near the stage it's at today were it not for the example
that REND386 has set.


Cheers!

Chris

--
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald" | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From kwas@panix.com  Mon Jan 24 17:25:15 1994
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199401241610.AA22946@panix.com>
Subject: Re: What's up with REND386
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 1994 11:10:18 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: end386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9401221546.AA13262@sunee.uwaterloo.ca> from "Bernie Roehl" at Jan 22, 94 10:46:55 am
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Bernie and Dave,

Thank you both for what you have done (the creation and release of REND386, 
not the splitting of ways :).  You've provided a way for people
to dabble in VR without great cost in terms of time and money.

Best of luck in your new projects.

Chris


From R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk  Tue Jan 25 01:00:19 1994
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From: Rik the northerner <R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: 3D collisions
To: REND386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (rend386)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 15:14:23 GMT
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Does anyone have any information on 3D collision methods/
				VR packages that have some kind of 3D collision 				detection in them.


Rik
(R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk)


From jack@well.sf.ca.us  Tue Jan 25 04:07:09 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

From AFANH@STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV  Wed Jan 26 18:58:07 1994
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From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Thu Jan 27 01:47:24 1994
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 01:47:25 EST
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 01:47:24 -0500 (EST)
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For those who don't have TASM, I've sipped the OBJ files and
placed them in ASMOBJ.ZIP with the rest of the VR-386 files.
These were assembled with BC 3.1, so I don't know if they'll
work with other linker versions.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          | 
| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   | 
| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just a psycho-engineer ??               |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From underdog!SHULMAN@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za  Thu Jan 27 11:25:16 1994
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unsubscribe
                                                                
       _/_/_/_/          Steve Shulman               _/_/_/_/   
      _/          shulman@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za    _/          
     _/_/_/_/      Electrical Engineering Dept.    _/_/_/_/     
          _/             Wits University                _/      
   _/_/_/_/               South Africa           _/_/_/_/       
                                                                
       " I was sitting in the bar drowning my sorrows,          
            but my sorrows - they learnt to swim " -  U2        
                                                                

From s3030236@hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au  Thu Jan 27 21:14:11 1994
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-- 
Jay Hay     s3030236@hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au


From robert_bentley@wiltel.com  Fri Jan 28 10:49:08 1994
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From 91vansea@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca  Fri Jan 28 14:37:18 1994
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From: 91vansea@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca (VANSEADER  JEREMY C)
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Subject: walls
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Hey Everyone, I just got Rend and I've been wondering one thing. How do
 you make impassable walls? I havn't tried this yet but if I give the
 user an item attached to his body (or head if the body doesn't follow
 the head) and do PosLimit on that item will that stop the user from
 going out of a certain region?

Jeremy VanSeader                  | Do unto others what has been done to you                
91vansea@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca   |            -Tool       
__________________________________|__________________________________________

From robert_bentley@wiltel.com  Fri Jan 28 18:18:32 1994
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From @SMTPGATE:JLB0201@PRDC.PRDC.DUKEPOWER.COM  Fri Jan 28 20:41:52 1994
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 Subject:
 <vr>:rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

 Mild, question: Where do I find the VR-386 files?

   Joseph Byrd   work: jlb0201@prdc.dukepower.com
                 home: jlbyrd@bix.com



From czbb020@access.texas.gov  Fri Jan 28 22:22:08 1994
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From: "Kevin J. Comerford" <czbb020@access.texas.gov>
Subject: Re: walls
To: VANSEADER JEREMY C <91vansea@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9401281940.AA08889@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.59.9401282142.A16114@access.texas.gov>


On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, VANSEADER JEREMY C wrote:

> Hey Everyone, I just got Rend and I've been wondering one thing. How do
>  you make impassable walls? I havn't tried this yet but if I give the
>  user an item attached to his body (or head if the body doesn't follow
>  the head) and do PosLimit on that item will that stop the user from
>  going out of a certain region?

This is something that has puzzled me as well.  Any clues out there?
     --Kevin Comerford
       czbb020@access.texas.gov

   

From dcon@telerama.lm.com  Fri Jan 28 22:59:13 1994
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`----- (start of forwarded mail) -----
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`Date: 24 Jan 1994 15:14:23 +0000 (GMT)
`From: Rik the northerner <R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk>
`Subject: 3D collisions
`Resent-to: edesio@dragon.cpqd.br
`To: REND386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (rend386)
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`
`Does anyone have any information on 3D collision methods/
`				VR packages that have some kind of 3D collision 				detection in them.
`
`
`Rik
`(R.K.Williams1@lut.ac.uk)
`
`----- (end   of forwarded mail) -----
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From POSTMASTER@fapq.fapesp.br  Sat Jan 29 09:04:23 1994
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`
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`       _/_/_/_/          Steve Shulman               _/_/_/_/
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`     _/_/_/_/      Electrical Engineering Dept.    _/_/_/_/
`          _/             Wits University                _/
`   _/_/_/_/               South Africa           _/_/_/_/
`
`       " I was sitting in the bar drowning my sorrows,
`            but my sorrows - they learnt to swim " -  U2
`
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From stcass@maths.tcd.ie  Sat Jan 29 17:37:03 1994
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From KINEMATIC@delphi.com  Sun Jan 30 10:37:52 1994
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unsubscribe

From tam@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca  Sun Jan 30 17:09:46 1994
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From: Tam Ignatius Ying S <tam@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca>
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unscribe

From joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu.highland.nmhs.edu.  Mon Jan 31 14:20:16 1994
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Message-Id: <9401311913.AA02899@navier.highland.nmhs.edu.highland.nmhs.edu.>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Collision detects
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 14:13:52 -0500
From: joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu.highland.nmhs.edu.
X-Mts: smtp

Okay, here goes:

For each object do the following:

First, describe the object as an equation.  This is easier said than
done I know, unless if it's an orthagonal or infinite rectangle, but who cares?

Then define the viewer's path as a vector.

Use a gaussiasn elimination on the two equations (use matrices, of
course!) to determine if the vector hits the object at all.  If it
does, see if the hit is within the current position and the next
position.  If so, any forward movement should just move the viewer to
the point of intersection.  If not, then there's no collision.

Or, for those VRS users among us (!), you can use its algorithm:

(pseudo-code, of course!)
if VX in [obj_X1..obj_X2] then
  if VY in [obj_Y1..obj_Y2] then
    if VZ in [obj_Z1..obj_Z2] then
      there is a collision; therefore I must figure out where the
person really goes!
else
  just let the booger move ahead, okay?!?!

/\      /|
\/____ //____
/ Joshua Shagam

BTW, if anyone here reads Cyber Mag, go to the BBS of the Month column
first.  I do!  (Like I have a choice!)

From jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu  Mon Jan 31 21:38:28 1994
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From: "Jeffrey W. Thompson" <jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199402010238.AA18239@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Collisions
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 20:38:13 -0600 (CST)
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It would seem there must be a better way to calculate possible collisions as calculating a solution using gaussian elimination 
should take quite a few cpu cycles.  Does anyone have a more efficient solution?
-Jeff Thompson
jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu


From SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au  Mon Jan 31 23:19:09 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:13:40 +1030 (CST)
From: Gavin <SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <940201141340.1be0@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
Subject: how to unsubscribe - SAVE THIS!

You were all sent this, I am sick of seeing unsubscribe notices!!!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------



If you ever want to unsubscribe, send another message to
Majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca using the same format but using the word
"unsubscribe" instead of "subscribe".

If you're moving and your email address is changing, just send an
unsubscribe message from your old account and a subscribe message from
your new account.


From tkuster@chopin.cas.american.edu  Tue Feb  1 13:10:40 1994
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 13:04:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "Todd Kusterer" <tkuster@chopin.cas.american.edu>
Sender: tkuster@chopin.cas.american.edu
Message-Id: <47097.tkuster@chopin.cas.american.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscibe

please remove me from the list.
Todd Kusterer  tkuster@american.edu      | I can't be held responsible if
Computer Science and Information Systems | Reality doesn't follow my 
The American University                  | Fantasies.
CS Student dodging real world            |                - ME.




From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Tue Feb  1 14:16:21 1994
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To: Gavin <SCARMAN@hfrd.dsto.gov.au>
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: how to unsubscribe - SAVE THIS! 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 01 Feb 94 14:13:40 +1030."
             <940201141340.1be0@hfrd.dsto.gov.au> 
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:03:59 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

I agree.  I have 3 accounts all subscribed to Rend386, and on one of
them I need to pay $3.50 an hour to be online (it's America OnLine).  I
have a 2400 baud modem.  It is SLOW.  I have literally DOZENS of
messages saying "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" every day.  I also can't
get on very often, especially the two DECstation accounts.  One of the
DECstation's hard drives literally FILLED UP over the summer (it's at
school) from my {un}subscribe messages!

Also, on AOL, I'm conducting some important business (i.e. what to be
our next commercial computing project - we still haven't agreed on a
first!) but still I can't afford to lose these messages.  I lost I
don't KNOW how many due to my mail quota filling up!

I agree with Gavin, PLEASE use the Majordomo server!

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Tue Feb  1 14:18:41 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: More on {un}subscribe messages
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:20:04 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp


This was sent to us back in June; it still applies!

------- Forwarded Message

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	id <AA24286>; Wed, 23 Jun 93 07:02:27 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9306231102.AA24286@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Important changes to the REND386 email list
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 7:02:26 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


There are now over 300 people on the rend386 mailing list, and with the
upcoming release of "Virtual Reality Creations" (the book that Dave, myself
and John Eagan have written) there may be an influx of new readers.

That may mean an increase in traffic.  Here's what we plan to do about it.

As a first step, I'm splitting the existing rend386 mailing list into two
pieces: an announcement list and a discussion list.

The announcement list will be used *only* for announcements of new software
related to rend386, new PLG files, new worlds, and so on.  It will be a very
low-traffic list (it should peak around one article per week, and the average
will be even lower).  If that kind of information is all you're interested in,
then this is the list for you.

The discussion list will be for items of a more technical nature; problems
with compiling and linking, questions about algorithms, ideas for additional
features for rend386, and so on.  The traffic on this list will be highly
variable, but if other lists are any indication there will be "bursts" of
interesting discussions followed by long periods of quiet contemplation.

Initially, everyone who's on the existing rend386 list will be on both lists.
Note that this does not mean an increase in traffic!  It's just that the
(infrequent) announcements will be sent to you via a different address.
If you're happy with the way things are going now, then do nothing and
everything will be the same.

If you want to be taken off the discussion list, send email to
rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (the same address you use to subscribe).
If you want to be taken off the announcement list too, send email to
rend386-announce-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca and we'll take care of it.

I mentioned above that this is a "first step".  The next step may be to
change the "discussion" list into a digest format, and to get into
more sophisticated, automated mailing-list software.  If anyone has
any recommendations for a Unix-based package for doing that sort of thing,
I'd love to hear them.

Finally, if anyone has any strong objections to any of the above, now is a
good time to voice them.

Thanks for your patience.


------- End of Forwarded Message


From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Tue Feb  1 14:19:47 1994
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	id <AA19955>; Tue, 1 Feb 94 14:19:47 -0500
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	id AA00183; Tue, 1 Feb 94 12:21:12 -0700
Message-Id: <9402011921.AA00183@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Oops, wrong one! :)
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:21:12 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp


------- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Received: by sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	id <AA17983>; Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:27:37 -0400
From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9306291527.AA17983@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New setup for REND386 list
To: rend386-announce@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 11:27:33 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO

In anticipation of an increase in readership (and traffic!) I have now
converted the two rend386 lists over to use the Majordomo mailing-list
software.  (I looked at the "listserv" package, but decided it was too
complex).

This is our first time using the package, so please be patient if there
are any problems.

If you're happy with the way things are, feel free to skip the rest of
this message.

The only difference from what we've been doing up to now is that
all subscription and unsubscription requests should now be sent to
majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca instead of rend386-request@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
and are of the following form:

      subscribe rend386-announce
      subscribe rend386-discuss

These will add you to the announcement and discussion lists, respectively.
You're probably already on both lists, so you probably shouldn't need to
subscribe.

To unsubscribe to either list, just use "unsubscribe" instead of "subscribe".

If you like, you can also send the following messages to majordomo:

       which
       info rend386-announce
       info rend386-discuss

The 'which' command tells you which of the lists you're on.  The 'info'
commands will mail you a copy of the "welcome to the list" messages.

If you're *really* curious about all this, you can send a 'help' command
to majordomo and it'll mail you back a detailed list of its commands.

You can have multiple commands in one mail message to majordomo.  All the
commands must be in the body of the message, not in the subject line.

Again, please be patient with any problems.  Thanks.



------- End of Forwarded Message


From TALBANESE@delphi.com  Wed Feb  2 17:07:06 1994
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	id <AA13318>; Wed, 2 Feb 94 17:07:06 -0500
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 <01H8DW80FUM88WY36L@delphi.com>; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 21:22:51 EST
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 21:22:51 -0500 (EST)
From: TALBANESE@delphi.com
Subject: SUBSCRIBE
To: REND386@SUNEE.UWATERLOO.CA
Message-Id: <01H8DW80G49U8WY36L@delphi.com>
X-Vms-To: INTERNET"REND386@SUNEE.UWATERLOO.CA"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

PLEASE INCLUDE ME IN YOUR MAILING LIST FOR THE REND386 NEWSLETTER. 

MY MAILING ADDRESS IS :

TOM ALBANESE
P.O. BOX 6867
TALLAHASSEE, FL   32308

COMPUSERVE

71231,2421


                        THANKS !

From guest1@ed.petech.ac.za  Wed Feb  2 18:48:51 1994
Received: from ed.petech.ac.za by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA14615>; Wed, 2 Feb 94 18:48:51 -0500
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Received: by ed.petech.ac.za
	(1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA01402; Wed, 2 Feb 94 14:13:44 +0300
From: Kon Wilms <guest1@ed.petech.ac.za>
Subject: Mailing list for Raytracing?
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 14:13:44 SADT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Hi All,

I know this isn't the right place but I have no where else to try -

Does anyone have any details on raytracing-type mailing lists? I want
to subscribe to one. Right now I'm using 3ds on PC and Imagine on the
Amiga. Basically, any raytracing mailing list would be a must.

Later

--
                                               ___________   __________
                                              |           | |          \ 
Name ................ Kon "ToneDEF" Wilms     |______     | |_______    |       
Address .......... guest1@ed.petech.ac.za          |      |  |   |__|   |
                                                   |______|  |_________/     
Food of preference ................ Pizza     
Car ....................... Fiat Uno Fire    " The only good sixpack     
Recreational Beverage ...... Amstel Lager                 is a downed one "
Sound system  ....... 2x50w & 2x250w Sony 



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From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Thu Feb  3 14:10:33 1994
Received: from [192.231.62.2] by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA27948>; Thu, 3 Feb 94 14:10:33 -0500
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	id AA01338; Thu, 3 Feb 94 12:10:48 -0700
Message-Id: <9402031910.AA01338@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
To: Kon Wilms <guest1@ed.petech.ac.za>
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Mailing list for Raytracing? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Feb 94 14:13:44 -0300."
             <9402022348.AA14615@sunee.uwaterloo.ca> 
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:10:47 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Why 3DS? Use a REAL raytracer like Povray!

You can get this off America OnLine, Compuserve, many BBSses, and also
an anonymous ftp to ftp.u.washington.edu.

Joshua Shagam

From MONSA@DEPAUW.EDU  Thu Feb  3 21:34:29 1994
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From: Rogue Factor <MONSA@DEPAUW.EDU>
Subject: unsubscribe
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unsubscribe

From MONSA@DEPAUW.EDU  Fri Feb  4 09:50:01 1994
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Date: 04 Feb 1994 09:51:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Rogue Factor <MONSA@DEPAUW.EDU>
Subject: Unsubscribe is not working
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <01H8HEVKUYXE8WXOWA@DEPAUW.EDU>
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   I need help unsubscribing to this list.
   There is a problem:
   When I joined this list, our system used BITNET, so my address was
"MONSA@BITNET.DEPAUW".  We have since switched to the InterNet and my new
address is "MONSA@DEPAUW.EDU".  This listserver does not recognize this
new address and refuses to unsubscribe me because it thinks I'm not 
really on it.

   Help.

	Andre Monserrat

From TALBANESE@delphi.com  Fri Feb  4 22:11:19 1994
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	id <AA19545>; Fri, 4 Feb 94 22:11:19 -0500
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 21:17:38 -0500 (EST)
From: TALBANESE@delphi.com
Subject: subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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PLEASE INCLUDE ME IN YOUR MAILING LIST FOR THE REND386 NEWSLETTER. 

MY MAILING ADDRESS IS :

TOM ALBANESE
P.O. BOX 6867
TALLAHASSEE, FL   32308

COMPUSERVE

71231,2421


                        THANKS !

From POSTMASTER@fapq.fapesp.br  Sun Feb  6 05:25:19 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 15:32 BDB (-0200 C)
From: Carteiro@fapq.fapesp.br
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Sender: "Carteiro / Burocrata Anonimo / PostPerson - BR Domain."
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!! look at the addresses this mail is being sent to - you will find, in   !!
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
`----- (start of forwarded mail) -----
`
`Return-path: <postmaster at fapq.fapesp.br>
`Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 07:05 BDB (-0200 C)
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`To: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
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`Date: 27 Jan 1994 01:47:25 -0500 (EST)
`Date: 27 Jan 1994 01:47:24 -0500 (EST)
`From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
`Resent-to: edesio@dragon.cpqd.br
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`
`For those who don't have TASM, I've sipped the OBJ files and
`placed them in ASMOBJ.ZIP with the rest of the VR-386 files.
`These were assembled with BC 3.1, so I don't know if they'll
`work with other linker versions.
`
`
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------
`| My life is Hardware,                    |         Dave Stampe          |
`| my destiny is Software,                 | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu    |
`| my CPU is Wetware...                    | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca   |
`| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just a psycho-engineer ??               |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------
`----- (end   of forwarded mail) -----
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From boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Sun Feb  6 22:58:47 1994
Received: from sparc2.vsl.ist.ucf.edu by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
	id <AA03563>; Sun, 6 Feb 94 22:58:47 -0500
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	id AA04330; Sun, 6 Feb 94 22:58:19 EST
Received: by crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (931110.SGI/931108.SGI.ANONFTP)
	for @sparc2.vsl.ist.ucf.edu:rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca id AA28759; Sun, 6 Feb 94 22:58:30 -0500
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 94 22:58:30 -0500
From: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9402070358.AA28759@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: OGRE 50


I have just uploaded OGRE 5.0 to sunee.uwaterloo.ca.  It should be online
shortly.  SOrry about taking so long, but I've been busy, and the script
interpretation parts have been completely rewritten.  Anyhow, you can
download it and see the list of new features, but one feature I though was
important enough to mention here.  OGRE now comes with complete C++ source
code!  Feel free to borrow from it anything thet you like, Borland makefiles
are included.  Maybe someone who knows how can write a better language in
and use my functions as a "back end" to make the objects. 

I just decided that since I wasn't spending much time working on it, that it
would serve the community better to have it public so that everyone can learn
about object creation.  

BTW - If anyone is interested in the fast loading of objects at runtime,
    I have designed a technique for storing objects in binary format so
    that any arbitrarily complex object can be read in only 4 or 5 fread()s.
    (Depending on whether you want to store colors separate from polys).
    If this is useful to anyone, let me know and I'll post info about it.


From ejp@world.std.com  Mon Feb  7 13:25:21 1994
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	id <AA09305>; Mon, 7 Feb 94 13:25:21 -0500
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	id AA17252; Mon, 7 Feb 1994 13:24:36 -0500
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 13:24:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric J Pierce <ejp@world.std.com>
Sender: Eric J Pierce <ejp@world.std.com>
Reply-To: Eric J Pierce <ejp@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Mailing list for Raytracing? 
To: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Cc: Kon Wilms <guest1@ed.petech.ac.za>, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
        joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
In-Reply-To: <9402031910.AA01338@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu>
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On Thu, 3 Feb 1994 joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu wrote:

> Why 3DS? Use a REAL raytracer like Povray!
> 
> You can get this off America OnLine, Compuserve, many BBSses, and also
> an anonymous ftp to ftp.u.washington.edu.
> 
> Joshua Shagam
> 
Joshua,
	I could not find povray on ftp.u.washington.edu.  However my
local archie gave me this:

Host ftp.uni-kl.de

    Location: /pub3/pc/dos/graphics/Raytrace
      DIRECTORY drwxrwxr-x        512  Oct 18 13:23  povray

	Where on ftp.u.washington.edu is povray?

                          Thanks,
                                      - Eric
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric J. Pierce
Dynamic Automated Systems, Inc.                voice: (617) 551-8400
910 Washington Street                          fax:   (617) 551-8404
Norwood, MA  02062                             email: ejp@world.std.com



From david.schwanke@f614.n2605.z1.fidonet.org  Tue Feb  8 06:52:27 1994
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From: David.Schwanke@p0.f2605.n614.z1.fidonet.org

If this makes it, please reply with instructions on to joining your mailing
 list, along with about how much trafic it gets.  (Dont wanna bog down my
 system too much :))
Thank you.

TC

From jamesh@bnr.ca  Tue Feb  8 17:25:12 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:  info request 


Hi,

  I'm doing my master's in computer science and was interested
in doing it on a Virtual Reality topic.

  Does anyone have any good suggestions, for VR topics which
could use some looking into.  I have a preference for graphics.

  You can email me directly at:  jamesh@bnr.ca


                                        Thanks in advance,

                                        James Hyjek

From dsawdai%sienna.engin.umich.edu@srvr4.engin.umich.edu  Wed Feb  9 12:08:30 1994
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To: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, dsawdai@engin.umich.edu
Subject: Re: OGRE 50 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 06 Feb 1994 22:58:30 EST."
             <9402070358.AA28759@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu> 
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 1994 12:08:01 +0000
From: Donald James Sawdai <dsawdai@engin.umich.edu>


Please excuse my ignorance, but what is OGRE?

Thanks,
Don Sawdai
dsawdai@engin.umich.edu

From Myles.Strous@lib.monash.edu.au  Wed Feb  9 17:48:23 1994
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 09:15:40 +1100
From: "Myles Strous, Monash Gippsland x6536" <Myles.Strous@lib.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Anti-aliasing
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Greetings, all.

I suggested anti-asliasing as a topic for James's master's, and it occurred to 
me that it might be a good topic for this list.

Has anyone thought about adding anti-aliasing to Rend386 ?
I'm afraid I'm much more of a VR tourist than a programmer, and my programming 
experience is all Pascal-based, so I've never really looked at the code.
I assume Rend386 does at least some sort of edge calculation, whether it 
actually draws edges or uses an edge list for scan line stuff.

Now, didn't Michael Abrash's implementation of Wu's anti-aliasing technique, in 
Dr Dobb's Journal, produce some incredible number of anti-aliased lines per 
second ?
Now, I realise this was probably against a plain (black ?) background, which 
means you can work out an anti-aliasing palette ahead of time, and I realise 
that Rend386 already uses most of the palette for illumination shading, but 
what is the possibility of adding anti-aliasing to Rend386, at the edge
calculation stage maybe, using Wu's technique ?

Just a thought that some enthusiastic programmer with spare time :-D(ha,ha),
might like to consider.

			Regards, Myles. (myles.strous@lib.monash.edu.au)
---
Raytracing fan. Virtual Reality tourist. Hobbyist programmer.


From rmason@WPI.EDU  Fri Feb 11 17:28:08 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: NON-REND: Clipper Proposal


For your information.

 please forward this to everyone you know...  this is important!
 
 For those of you who don't know, Clipper is a proposal circulating in the
 government right now whereby the government will require that all methods of
 encrypting data (including e-mail) have a 'backdoor' of sorts so that the
 government will be able to decrypt and read the data.  As you may have
 guessed, this is an infringement on your right to privacy.
 
 Below are details on a petition against Clipper, and how to sign your name
 to it.  Please read.
 
 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
                 Electronic Petition to Oppose Clipper
                       Please Distribute Widely
 
 On January 24, many of the nation's leading experts in cryptography
 and computer security wrote President Clinton and asked him to
 withdraw the Clipper proposal.
 
 The public response to the letter has been extremely favorable,
 including coverage in the New York Times and numerous computer and
 security trade magazines.
 
 Many people have expressed interest in adding their names to the
 letter.  In  response to these requests, CPSR is organizing an
 Internet petition drive to oppose the Clipper proposal.  We will
 deliver the signed petition to the White House, complete with the
 names of all the people who oppose Clipper.
 
 To sign on to the letter, send a message to:
 
      Clipper.petition@cpsr.org
 
 with the message "I oppose Clipper" (no quotes)
 
 You will receive a return message confirming your vote.
 
 Please distribute this announcement so that others may also express
 their opposition to the Clipper proposal.
 
 CPSR is a membership-based public interest organization.  For
 membership information, please email cpsr@cpsr.org.  For more
 information about Clipper, please consult the CPSR Internet Library -
 FTP/WAIS/Gopher CPSR.ORG /cpsr/privacy/crypto/clipper
 
 
 
 =====================================================================
 
 The President
 The White House
 Washington, DC  20500
 
 Dear Mr. President:
 
      We are writing to you regarding the "Clipper" escrowed encryption
 proposal now under consideration by the White House.  We wish to
 express our concern about this plan and similar technical standards
 that may be proposed for the nation's communications infrastructure.
 
      The current proposal was developed in secret by federal agencies
 primarily concerned about electronic surveillance, not privacy
 protection.  Critical aspects of the plan remain classified and thus
 beyond public review.
 
      The private sector and the public have expressed nearly unanimous
 opposition to Clipper.  In the formal request for comments conducted
 by the Department of Commerce last year, less than a handful of
 respondents supported the plan.  Several hundred opposed it.
 
      If the plan goes forward, commercial firms that hope to develop
 new products will face extensive government obstacles. Cryptographers
 who wish to develop new privacy enhancing technologies will be
 discouraged.  Citizens who anticipate that the progress of technology
 will enhance personal privacy will find their expectations
 unfulfilled.
 
      Some have proposed that Clipper be adopted on a voluntary basis
 and suggest that other technical approaches will remain viable.  The
 government, however, exerts enormous influence in the marketplace, and
 the likelihood that competing standards would survive is small.  Few
 in the user community believe that the proposal would be truly
 voluntary.
 
      The Clipper proposal should not be adopted.  We believe that if
 this proposal and the associated standards go forward, even on a
 voluntary basis, privacy protection will be diminished, innovation
 will be slowed, government accountability will be lessened, and the
 openness necessary to ensure the successful development of the
 nation's communications infrastructure will be threatened.
 
      We respectfully ask the White House to withdraw the Clipper
 proposal.
 

From bb@ife.ee.ethz.ch  Mon Feb 14 05:16:25 1994
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From denz@moa.ims.uni-stuttgart.de  Wed Feb 16 04:35:35 1994
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From m0rubini@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au  Thu Feb 17 09:47:35 1994
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From ALEX_AMAYA@electriciti.com  Thu Feb 17 23:43:22 1994
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Great book Virtual Reality Creations" just about finish reading it.

Alex
aamaya@electriciti.com




From fista@uranus.di.uoa.ariadne-t.gr  Fri Feb 18 09:09:55 1994
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From: fista@uranus.di.uoa.ariadne-t.gr (Stavropoulos Marios - Filokostas Aris)
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Please suscribe me to the rend386 mailing list.
My address is fista@iris.di.uoa.ariadne-t.gr.
Thank you.

From LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU  Sat Feb 19 07:47:34 1994
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subscribe

Please add me to the mailing list for REND386..

thanks!


From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Tue Feb 22 16:01:29 1994
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From joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu  Wed Feb 23 14:12:39 1994
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:11:27 -0500
From: joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

I can't get Multiverse to compile, no matter what version I use (1.0.2
or 1.0.3, the only difference being the makefile structure.)

I know, this isn't R386, but I really want to try it.  Has anybody
gotten it compiled on a DECstation 5000/25? (this is at school, I would
never be stupid enough to get such an underpowered machine for my home use.)

Joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu

From medinfo!todd.porter@sinkhole.unf.edu  Thu Feb 24 22:17:14 1994
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From: todd.porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us (Todd Porter)
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 12:52:00 +0000
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David,

Your OGRE50 did not get uloaded properly.  Had a zero byte size - Could
you please post it again!!  I can't wait to get a look at it!

Thanks

Todd

---
 ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ >> Internet: Todd.Porter@medinfo.jax.fl.us  Rime: ->585 <

From ehernand@dino.conicit.ve  Fri Feb 25 07:45:43 1994
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From: ehernand@conicit.ve (Enrique Hernandez (UNITEC))
Message-Id: <9402251242.AA06616@dino.conicit.ve>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe

Unsubscribe

From joshuas@aol.com  Fri Feb 25 21:35:33 1994
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Sender: "joshuas" <joshuas@aol.com>
Message-Id: <9402252134.tn70717@aol.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 21:34:55 EST
Subject: Passing it along...

This is the only place I know of where there are at least 20 people (I don't
know 20 InterNet addresses).

Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-23 11:42:57 est
From: JOSHUA9999
To:    JoshuaS, Joshua Lee, ChuckC
To:    KneeBoard, Blowtorch, Sabin
CC:    HOTKID NH

see attached
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 21:55:24 est
From: El Gee Ess
To:    PHDIAMOND, JosephS323, FunInVa
To:    CptPicard, Maxwell714, TJSOOOEEII
To:    B16 RON, Lohnegrin, KJason, Newg69
To:    Marc 20005, JOSHUA9999, Elegy
To:    CuteAsian, DraytonE
CC:    ErickVAHot, REDLINE145, Guide TM
CC:    Kirkers, ShawnYasu

Here you go!!  (a little supersticious here!)
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 19:34:44 est
From: Marc 20005
To:    LIVE, TBonita, Mjr Kira N
To:    Greta19661, NX2000A, JayC12
To:    Jntr Jojo, Admiral236, AdmTPau
To:    LdyRobin, Cmdr Alex, Nomad74104
To:    Guide DUN, LtJG Kaine, El Gee Ess
To:    Susie Bi, Ensign1, Valian
To:    PhotoManIN, Sitkins

Just passing it along.....
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 15:50:45 est
From: CptChristy
To:    VAdm Quan, Cmdr Beth, MR MARK14
To:    Ens Porter, EnsPhaeton, Marc 20005
To:    Joker 1994
CC:    AdmABC1701, AdmPhantom, CmdPLarson
CC:    RAdmRobby, Capt Poe, Kristin379
CC:    Kragg Zarr, Capt Bauma, Capt Wiz
CC:    RAdm Solar, TomF1994, Kbuck31816
CC:    FCptThygia, CmdrDanMan, Jolkai Dva
CC:    Doane, ComoJordan

Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 15:49:06 est
From: EarlC92109
To:    Madelen292, Cabata 4, Znor1, JLSIB
To:    Michele659, Tranzor Z1, NUTTY B
To:    April24393, TradeMk, Cat Two 10
To:    CREATE ADS, MRVN, Admiral236
To:    CptChristy, Wyllow, CAWench
To:    DONNAJOE, Coquita, Cavatar
To:    Phantom256, Maxter

It was my turn to pass it on. SORRY so pass it along.
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-16 03:00:28 est
From: Sunshin331
To:    EarlC92109

It was my turn to pass it on.  Sorry
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-16 01:26:24 est
From: LTX1388722
To:    AngelaB103, SenDave, JenNTonic
To:    COWBOY 70, ParkCat, TMP Elvis
To:    Star619656, Albondigas, SCOPE69
To:    CoronaLovr, GuyJohn, Ferret Lvr
To:    CuteGymnst, LaceBras, HappyLin
To:    KarenDal, Ladylov136, Lovejoy106
To:    Sunshin331, BRAKESUSA, DebbieW546

it's my turn to pass it along.
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  passing it along....
Date:  94-02-16 00:16:00 est
From: Michico
To:    Ariel 94, Tracey2583, CyndiAnne
To:    Kristin968, JohnS61528, BiBlonde
To:    Mercury213, SftnPink, FemCurious
To:    RaganSTRIP, ChuckG569, LoisSh
To:    LTX1388722, PopsiclToz, Nadia25
To:    Luxuria, JeanLGV, LittleAnni
To:    Leesa34271, Loanit, Griffith1
To:    TISHALYNNE

it's my turn to send it along!
Passing it along!

--------------
Forwarded Message:

>  This paper has been sent to you for good luck.  The original is in New
 >  England.  It has been around the world nine times.  The luck has been
 >  sent you.  You will recieve good luck  within four days of receiving
 >  this letter provided in turn you send it on.  This is no joke.  You will
 >  receive good luck in the mail.  Send no money.  Send copies to people
 >  you think need good luck.  Do not send money as faith has no price. 
 >  Do not keep this letter.  It must leave your hands within 96 hours.  An
 >  RAF officer received $470,000.00.  Jos Eliot received $40,00.00 and lost
 >  it because he broke the chain.  While in the Phillipines, George Welch
 >  lost his wife 21 days after receiving the letter.  He failed to circulate
 >  the letter.  However before her death he received $7,755,000.00.   Please
 >  send twenty copies and see what happens in four days.  The chain comes
 >  from Venezuela and was written by Saul Anthony Degrou, a missionary from
 >  South America.  Since this copy must tour the world, you must take
 >  twenty copies and send them to friends and associates.  After a few days
 >  you will get a suprise.  This is true even if you are not superstitious.
 >  
 >  Do note the following:
 >  Constantine Dios received the chain in 1953.  He asked his secretary
 >  to make twenty copies and send them.  A few days later he won a lottery
 >  of two million dollars.  Carol Daddit, an office employee, received the
 >  letter and forgot it had to leave his hands within 96 hours.  A few days
 >  later he lost his job.  Later, after finding the letter again, he mailed
 >  20 copies.  A few days later, he got a better job.  Dalan Fairchild
 >  received the letter, and not believing, threw his letter away.  Nine
 >  days later he died. In 1987, the letter was received by a young woman
 >  in California.  It was faded and barely readable.  She promised herself
 >  she would re-type the letter and send it on, but put it aside to do
 >  later. She was plagued with various problems, including expensive car
 >  repairs. The letter did not leave her hands in 96 hours.  She finally
typed
 >  the letter as promised and got a new car. Remember, send NO money. Do not
 >  ignore this.  It works.
 >  
 >                                                  St. Jude 

-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 19:34:44 est
From: Marc 20005
To:    LIVE, TBonita, Mjr Kira N
To:    Greta19661, NX2000A, JayC12
To:    Jntr Jojo, Admiral236, AdmTPau
To:    LdyRobin, Cmdr Alex, Nomad74104
To:    Guide DUN, LtJG Kaine, El Gee Ess
To:    Susie Bi, Ensign1, Valian
To:    PhotoManIN, Sitkins

Just passing it along.....
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 15:50:45 est
From: CptChristy
To:    VAdm Quan, Cmdr Beth, MR MARK14
To:    Ens Porter, EnsPhaeton, Marc 20005
To:    Joker 1994
CC:    AdmABC1701, AdmPhantom, CmdPLarson
CC:    RAdmRobby, Capt Poe, Kristin379
CC:    Kragg Zarr, Capt Bauma, Capt Wiz
CC:    RAdm Solar, TomF1994, Kbuck31816
CC:    FCptThygia, CmdrDanMan, Jolkai Dva
CC:    Doane, ComoJordan

Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-18 15:49:06 est
From: EarlC92109
To:    Madelen292, Cabata 4, Znor1, JLSIB
To:    Michele659, Tranzor Z1, NUTTY B
To:    April24393, TradeMk, Cat Two 10
To:    CREATE ADS, MRVN, Admiral236
To:    CptChristy, Wyllow, CAWench
To:    DONNAJOE, Coquita, Cavatar
To:    Phantom256, Maxter

It was my turn to pass it on. SORRY so pass it along.
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-16 03:00:28 est
From: Sunshin331
To:    EarlC92109

It was my turn to pass it on.  Sorry
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  Re: passing it along....
Date:  94-02-16 01:26:24 est
From: LTX1388722
To:    AngelaB103, SenDave, JenNTonic
To:    COWBOY 70, ParkCat, TMP Elvis
To:    Star619656, Albondigas, SCOPE69
To:    CoronaLovr, GuyJohn, Ferret Lvr
To:    CuteGymnst, LaceBras, HappyLin
To:    KarenDal, Ladylov136, Lovejoy106
To:    Sunshin331, BRAKESUSA, DebbieW546

it's my turn to pass it along.
-----------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:  passing it along....
Date:  94-02-16 00:16:00 est
From: Michico
To:    Ariel 94, Tracey2583, CyndiAnne
To:    Kristin968, JohnS61528, BiBlonde
To:    Mercury213, SftnPink, FemCurious
To:    RaganSTRIP, ChuckG569, LoisSh
To:    LTX1388722, PopsiclToz, Nadia25
To:    Luxuria, JeanLGV, LittleAnni
To:    Leesa34271, Loanit, Griffith1
To:    TISHALYNNE

it's my turn to send it along!
Passing it along!

--------------
Forwarded Message:

>  This paper has been sent to you for good luck.  The original is in New
 >  England.  It has been around the world nine times.  The luck has been
 >  sent you.  You will recieve good luck  within four days of receiving
 >  this letter provided in turn you send it on.  This is no joke.  You will
 >  receive good luck in the mail.  Send no money.  Send copies to people
 >  you think need good luck.  Do not send money as faith has no price. 
 >  Do not keep this letter.  It must leave your hands within 96 hours.  An
 >  RAF officer received $470,000.00.  Jos Eliot received $40,00.00 and lost
 >  it because he broke the chain.  While in the Phillipines, George Welch
 >  lost his wife 21 days after receiving the letter.  He failed to circulate
 >  the letter.  However before her death he received $7,755,000.00.   Please
 >  send twenty copies and see what happens in four days.  The chain comes
 >  from Venezuela and was written by Saul Anthony Degrou, a missionary from
 >  South America.  Since this copy must tour the world, you must take
 >  twenty copies and send them to friends and associates.  After a few days
 >  you will get a suprise.  This is true even if you are not superstitious.
 >  
 >  Do note the following:
 >  Constantine Dios received the chain in 1953.  He asked his secretary
 >  to make twenty copies and send them.  A few days later he won a lottery
 >  of two million dollars.  Carol Daddit, an office employee, received the
 >  letter and forgot it had to leave his hands within 96 hours.  A few days
 >  later he lost his job.  Later, after finding the letter again, he mailed
 >  20 copies.  A few days later, he got a better job.  Dalan Fairchild
 >  received the letter, and not believing, threw his letter away.  Nine
 >  days later he died. In 1987, the letter was received by a young woman
 >  in California.  It was faded and barely readable.  She promised herself
 >  she would re-type the letter and send it on, but put it aside to do
 >  later. She was plagued with various problems, including expensive car
 >  repairs. The letter did not leave her hands in 96 hours.  She finally
typed
 >  the letter as promised and got a new car. Remember, send NO money. Do not
 >  ignore this.  It works.
 >  
 >                                                  St. Jude 

From 71732.11@CompuServe.COM  Sat Feb 26 22:51:40 1994
Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com by sunee.uwaterloo.ca with SMTP
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Date: 26 Feb 94 22:48:57 EST
From: Paul Stopkoski <71732.11@CompuServe.COM>
To: rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <940227034857_71732.11_DHR46-1@CompuServe.COM>

Thank you for the great program!


From boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Sat Feb 26 23:12:46 1994
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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 94 23:12:40 -0500
From: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9402270412.AA14472@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: OGRE 50

Someone just tipped me off that the sunee files I uploaded all have a zero
byte length.  I have no idea what happened or when, but I just uploaded new es.
Hopefully they will be online in a day ot 2.  Sorry for the inconvenience.


From thinman@netcom.com  Sun Feb 27 02:23:09 1994
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 23:23:54 PST
In-Reply-To: joshuas@aol.com
       "Passing it along..." (Feb 25,  9:34pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: joshuas@aol.com, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Passing it along...

Fuck off and die.  With a boathook.  Get this crap out of my mailbox.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Artisputtingtogether. Art  s th ow n  aw y.

From erg@world.std.com  Sun Feb 27 12:59:25 1994
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	id AA14963; Sun, 27 Feb 1994 12:59:21 -0500
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 12:59:21 -0500
From: erg@world.std.com (Eben R Gay)
Message-Id: <199402271759.AA14963@world.std.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Cyberscope support?

Has anyone found a way to use REND386 with the Cyberscope?

The Cyberscope from Simsalabim Systems uses a split screen image
but each one is rotated 90 degrees.  Is there any way to make REND
386 display this way?  

Thanks

Eben Gay

Virtual Reality consultant                  ERG Engineering, Inc.
erg@world.std.com        voice: (508) 460-0529  fax: (508) 229-0830
"With imagination you can achieve virtually anything" - v.r. fortune cookie!

From GROBBINS@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au  Sun Feb 27 18:55:20 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: "Graham Robbins"  <GROBBINS@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au>
Organization: Edith Cowan University - Info Tech
Date:         28 Feb 94 07:48:59 GMT+0800
Subject:      
Reply-To: g.robbins@cowan.edu.au
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Message-Id: <F054AF7B66@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au>

Good Morning,
            I have just finished first reading of "VRC". Good joob
guys.  Howvever a question arises.  Given that there is a 150Kb
difference between the result of the V5 compilation and the V5 that
came with the book, Whats the difference ? There is a difference in
speed, at least on my system so the question is not totally trivial.
Thanks
GR
Graham Robbins
Edith Cowan University
(139.230.96.25)























































From U20190@UICVM.UIC.EDU  Sun Feb 27 23:23:02 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 21:57:20 CST
From: "Angus MacGyver  " <U20190@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
To: <REND386-DISCUSS@SUNEE.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Rend386 version 6?

Greetings,

   A friend of mine with no Internet access asked me to find out if
Rend386 version 6 is available, and if so how to obtain it. Any information
will be much appreciated.

Later,

-=> AM

From kwas@panix.com  Mon Feb 28 09:26:23 1994
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199402281425.AA04435@panix.com>
Subject: diff in VRC and personal .exe
To: g.robbins@cowan.edu.au
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 09:25:50 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <F054AF7B66@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au> from "Graham Robbins" at Feb 28, 94 07:48:59 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 933       

> 
> Good Morning,
>             I have just finished first reading of "VRC". Good joob
> guys.  Howvever a question arises.  Given that there is a 150Kb
> difference between the result of the V5 compilation and the V5 that
> came with the book, Whats the difference ? There is a difference in
There is a utility called strip, or something close to that.  It removes
some symbolic information, decreasing the size of the .exe
> speed, at least on my system so the question is not totally trivial.
I haven't notice any speed differences.

> Thanks
You're welcome
> GR
> Graham Robbins
> Edith Cowan University
> (139.230.96.25)
> 
Chris

/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Chris Kwasnicki 	  | "You can't run away forever, but's there's      |
| my account, my opinions | nothing wrong with getting a good head start"   |
\ kwas@panix.com	  |	-Meatloaf "Rock & Roll Dreams Come Through" /

From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Tue Mar  1 07:43:28 1994
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Date: 	Tue, 1 Mar 1994 09:13:48 -0330
From: Alexander Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: unsubscribe
To: Rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9403010911.A12407-0100000@garfield.cs.mun.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Unsubscribe

From joshuas@aol.com  Wed Mar  2 00:15:15 1994
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From: joshuas@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Sender: "joshuas" <joshuas@aol.com>
Message-Id: <9403020014.tn170073@aol.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 94 00:14:31 EST
Subject: Apology

I am sorry for the inconvenience of sending this chain letter to the mailing
list, but I didn't want to break tradition!  (And I got it via mailing list
which I don't even know how I got on, if it's any consolation!)

JoshuaS@aol.com

From LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Mar  3 11:06:39 1994
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Date: 03 Mar 1994 11:06:19 -0500 (EST)
From: LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
Subject: hear hear!
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <01H9J7BD4Z588WXGWI@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>>> Good Morning,
>             I have just finished first reading of "VRC". Good joob
> guys.  Howvever a question arises.  Given that there is a 150Kb
> difference between the result of the V5 compilation and the V5 that
> came with the book, Whats the difference ? There is a difference in
There is a utility called strip, or something close to that.  It removes
some symbolic information, decreasing the size of the .exe
> speed, at least on my system so the question is not totally trivial.
I haven't notice any speed differences.

> Thanks                                                                    

I'll second that...the book VRC is great!  I've been looking throught the 
stacks of fluffly VR books for the past 2 years for something like this..and
VRC is the one I was waiting for.

Just wanted to voice my thanks as well....and hope you guys come out with
additional books in the future!


From LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Mar  3 11:26:24 1994
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Date: 03 Mar 1994 10:50:37 -0500 (EST)
From: LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
Subject: ogre50
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <01H9J6UD8ZTA8WXGWI@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
X-Vms-To: IN%"rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Someone mentioned OGRE50 a while back..

Is this a PLG or WLD file for rend386?  Where can I find it?  I'm new to this
list, so I apologize for being a bit clueless..

A FAQ file for budding rend386 users would be very helpful  :P

thanks


From dave@kaleida.com  Thu Mar  3 16:38:09 1994
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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 13:39:36 -0800
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: dave@kaleida.com (Dave Lundberg)
Subject: VR Basic


I just attended the Intermedia Conference in San Jose CA and saw the Waite
Group selling something called "VR BASIC".  It is essentially REND386.  The
have added a menu bar and a simple text editor.  I asked if it was REND386
and was told that it "uses the REND386 engine", but that they added a lot
of other things. 
It was selling for $55.

Anyone know what the relationship between REND386 authors and Waite is for
this product ?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Lundberg,                 The question isn't "do machines think",
Kaleida Labs, Inc.              It's "do men think".
dave@kaleida.com                         
(415) 966-0849



From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Fri Mar  4 14:38:32 1994
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To: dave@kaleida.com (Dave Lundberg)
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: VR Basic 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Mar 94 13:39:36 PST."
             <9403032137.AA06009@kaleida.com> 
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 94 12:39:08 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

>>I just attended the Intermedia Conference in San Jose CA and saw the Waite
>>Group selling something called "VR BASIC".  It is essentially REND386.  The
>>have added a menu bar and a simple text editor.  I asked if it was REND386
>>and was told that it "uses the REND386 engine", but that they added a lot
>>of other things. 
>>It was selling for $55.

I don't know, but where can I get this?  (Sounds like VRS on steroids,
y'know, the anabolic kind?)

Joshua Shagam

>>The question isn't "do machines think",
>>It's "do men think".

Well, that depends... :D

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sun Mar  6 05:40:08 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sat, 5 Mar 1994 19:22:27 +0000
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <28510.9403051922@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: TMS34010 driver?
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 94 19:22:24 GMT
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
X-Phone-Number: +44 533 551551 ext. 8476
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

A colleague is trying to get REND386 up and running on a PC
with a TMS34010 board.  Last September Jerry Isdale said some friends
of his had got it working with a 34020 -- is that driver available Jerry?
(ands would it work on a 34010...?).

If anyone else has any pointers to drivers I'd be grateful if they'd
get in touch.

Thanks,

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald" | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From thomsonj@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA  Sun Mar  6 15:25:54 1994
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Date: Sun, 6 Mar 1994 15:17:49 +0500 (EST)
From: "J. Graham Thomson" <thomsonj@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Virtual Reality Creations Question
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03+.9403061549.A2414-a100000@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I've been following the instructions in this book (a very good one) on how
to build an interface for my Sega glasses and powerglove to fit my printer
port.  Unfortunately i've hit on a confusing problem.  There are labels on
the printer port plug diagram for two leads, d3 and d4 that should go to
my Sega interface.  Unfortunately there is only an d3 label on the diagram
of the altered sega card.  Does anyone who is familiar with this book know
an answer to this problem?  If there are circuit diagams out there, i'd
really like to get hold of one!





From pshafto@BIX.com  Sun Mar  6 18:44:37 1994
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subscribe Tim Mulle'

From joshuas@aol.com  Mon Mar  7 18:45:44 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 94 18:27:50 EST
Subject: More on apology

You know, Passing It Along didn't bring me any good luck...

It brought me nothing but flames! :(

(Well, there was one humorous one)

JoshuaS@aol.com

From FULLERWD@delphi.com  Tue Mar  8 14:23:39 1994
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From shawnk@navier.highland.nmhs.edu  Tue Mar  8 14:38:13 1994
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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 14:35:44 -0500
From: shawnk@navier.highland.nmhs.edu (Shawn Kawcak)
Message-Id: <9403081935.AA24187@navier.highland.nmhs.edu>
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Does anybody know where I can find the devices to do CyberSex?  Also,
are there any programs available for that purpose?

Shawn "Lover-Boy" Kawcak

From jxiao@engr.mun.ca  Wed Mar  9 16:31:24 1994
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From: Jing Xiao <jxiao@engr.mun.ca>
Subject: Subscribe
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Dear Sir: 

	I would like to join the REND386 mailing list, thanks.

				Sincerely

				Jing Xiao


From heidornd@ax.asc-yf.wpafb.af.mil  Thu Mar 10 05:32:05 1994
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Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 17:22:41 EDT
From: heidornd@ax.asc-yf.wpafb.af.mil
Message-Id: <9402097632.AA763262561@ax.asc-yf.wpafb.af.mil>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Please add me to the REND386 Mailing List


Please add me to your REND386 Mailing List.  I am also interested in pulling 
across a newer version than the one I currently have.  Sooo would appreciate 
any help you can give me there.

Thanks

Don

From ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu  Fri Mar 11 15:30:53 1994
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Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 13:49:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Andrew D. Goodfellow" <ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>
Sender: "Andrew D. Goodfellow" <ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>
Reply-To: "Andrew D. Goodfellow" <ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>
Subject: Re: power glove mods
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I'm not sure if this just went to bruce or the whole list so I'm gonna send it
again. If you already got it please just go ahead and delete it, thanks for your
time. 

 On Tue, 8 Mar 1994, Bruce Cameron wrote:

> I am looking to do some modifications to my power glove and
> pg-hc11 setup. Can anyone help with the following:
> 
> 2) any mods that would allow the pg-hc11 to process all the
>    buttons on the glove in addition to position and location
>    information.

  3) any graphics representations of the glove better than the normal one.
	(i.e. figure files etc...)

I would also like any help or advice in doing this, especially
 	   with #2!

Thanks in advance,

	Andrew D. Goodfellow <RUADG344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>












From meuser@cats.ucsc.edu  Sat Mar 12 15:08:01 1994
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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 1994 12:07:52 -0800
Message-Id: <199403122007.MAA11005@am.ucsc.edu>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: ftp site

Hi, I'm new to this list.  I have a version of rend386 dated may, 1993.
I was wondering if there is a later version and the address of an
ftp site where I might find updates and other files related to rend vr.
thnx
mike meuser

From boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Sun Mar 13 02:39:41 1994
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Date: Sun, 13 Mar 94 02:38:47 -0500
From: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9403130738.AA18890@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: OGRE 5.0

I just checked sunee.uwaterloo.ca and the new Ogre 5.0 is NOT yet online.  I
uploaded it maybe two weeks ago, so it SHOULD be there.  I can't imagine
what happened.  Anyhow, you can attempt to download it out of the incoming
directory by knowing the filenames, which will not be visible.

They are:
og_read.me
og50_exe.zip
og50_obj.zip
og50_src.zip

I'm not sure about upper/lower case.  But they should be in all one or the
other, and not mixed.

Of those of you who do not know, OGRE is a script-based CAD program to
create object models for REND386 and WorldToolkit.  Source code is 
included.  By script-based, I mean that instead of drawing an object
by mousing around, you write a program that describes how to construct the
object out of geometric primitives.  The script language is very simple, and
a LOT of sample source code is included.  If anyone has any questions/sugges
feel free to write me at "boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu".  BYE!


From egg068@cent1.lancs.ac.uk  Mon Mar 14 10:31:27 1994
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..

From boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Tue Mar 15 01:22:42 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 01:21:16 -0500
From: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9403150621.AA23900@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: OGRE (again)


OK.  I'm getting as tired of this as any of you with the uploads apparently
not working right.  I have just emailed UUencoded versions of all 3 zipfiles
to Bernie.  Hopefully this will fix everything.  If problems persist, I will
be willing to email uuencoded files to anyone who asks for them, or post
them if REALLY necessary.  Don't worry, this should be it though.

The NEW filenames are
ogr50exe.zip  ogr50obj.zip  ogr50src.zip

"May the dot-product be with you"


From FULLERWD@delphi.com  Tue Mar 15 21:14:53 1994
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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 21:06:06 -0500 (EST)
From: FULLERWD@delphi.com
Subject: N power glove
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <01HA0JT2JILE8ZG973@delphi.com>
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got the glove going but it will not select an object.  It wil
point fist and others any help i sure will appriciate.
Yes I am just starting
Thanks

From amoreno@unixg.ubc.ca  Wed Mar 16 08:07:20 1994
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From: Andrew Moreno <amoreno@unixg.ubc.ca>
Message-Id: <9403161307.AA27999@unixg.ubc.ca>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: eedemo


Hi. How can I  make the robot in the eedemo dance?"

Cool demo. I can selet objects with a pen on my pen computer.

From cisneros@dec4.uaslp.mx  Wed Mar 16 23:50:55 1994
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From: cisneros@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx (Dr. Joel Cisneros Parra)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: PowerGlove
Cc: rend386-discuss-owner@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Hi! do someone know how to interface the powerglove with turbo pascal v7.0?{_
answer to: cisneros@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx

From 2231@et.aarhus.ih.dk  Thu Mar 17 07:48:13 1994
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From: "HOLM H" <2231@et.aarhus.ih.dk>
Organization:  ET Engineering College of Aarhus
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date:          Thu, 17 Mar 1994 13:48:52 +0100
Subject:       Building PowerGlove
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <49A7ACA3DB5@et.aarhus.ih.dk>


Hi 
I have tryed to get a powerglove for quite some time now....
With no succes at all...
So I've decided to build my own (Pheeew..)

Could someone tell me how the Powerglove interact with rend386, with 
the current drivers (So I dosent have to write my own driver, but 
concentrate on the hardware)

Please reply to:
    Henrik Holm
    2231@et.aarhus.ih.dk

 

From praveen@carina.unm.edu  Thu Mar 17 14:20:56 1994
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Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:17:22 -0500
From: praveen@carina.unm.edu
Message-Id: <9403171917.AA02166@navier.highland.nmhs.edu>
Apparently-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Does anybody have any information of where I can find any pirated files, hacks, etc. for virtual reality?
Also, can anybody tell me how to break into Whitehouse.gov?

------------------------
Anarchy rules!
Entered at Carina.UNM.Edu

From WATTERS_C%NORSE.decnet@gate.hosp.ohio-state.edu  Thu Mar 17 15:51:43 1994
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Date: 17 Mar 94 15:37:00 EST
From: "NORSE::WATTERS_C" <WATTERS_C%NORSE.decnet@gate.hosp.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: re: Guess who... (Apology)
To: "rend386" <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>

First, please let me apologize to the list - I forgot the /EDIT command
line switch when trying to forward my response.  That happens when you're
using three completely different mailers.

>From: praveen@carina.unm.edu
>Message-Id: <9403171917.AA02166@navier.highland.nmhs.edu>
>Apparently-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

>Does anybody have any information of where I can find any pirated files, hacks, etc. for virtual reality?
>Also, can anybody tell me how to break into Whitehouse.gov?

Someone is:

	Forgetful (didn't log out)
	Stupid   
or
	Graduating at the end of this session, and won't have an account for
	much longer, and thinks it's funny when people mail to a non-existant
	account.

Besides, why ask about pirated or hacked VR, when the system this list is for
REND-386, is publicly available?

-Coyt




From WATTERS_C%NORSE.decnet@gate.hosp.ohio-state.edu  Thu Mar 17 16:02:54 1994
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Date: 17 Mar 94 15:31:00 EST
From: "NORSE::WATTERS_C" <WATTERS_C%NORSE.decnet@gate.hosp.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Guess who...
To: "rend386" <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>

From:	GATE::WINS%"praveen@carina.unm.edu" 17-MAR-1994 15:04:21.93
To:	NORSE::WATTERS_C
CC:	
Subj:	

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From: praveen@carina.unm.edu
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Apparently-To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Does anybody have any information of where I can find any pirated files, hacks, etc. for virtual reality?
Also, can anybody tell me how to break into Whitehouse.gov?

------------------------
Anarchy rules!
Entered at Carina.UNM.Edu


From joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu  Thu Mar 17 16:44:25 1994
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To: cisneros@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx (Dr. Joel Cisneros Parra)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
        rend386-discuss-owner@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
        joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: PowerGlove 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 16 Mar 94 23:00:37 CST."
             <9403170500.AA04706@dec4.ifisica.uaslp.mx> 
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 94 16:42:48 -0500
From: joshua@navier.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

I was wondering the same thing.  fwd me a copy, perhaps?  (Of course, I
need to FIND a glove first, but still...)

Joshua Shagam

From adams@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de  Fri Mar 18 02:30:29 1994
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From: adams@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Jon Adams)
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Subject: subscribe
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I would like to subscribe to the REND386 newsletter.

-- 
Jon Adams,203-3345 <adams@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>

From ega064@cent1.lancs.ac.uk  Fri Mar 18 14:07:15 1994
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Please append the following to your e-mail list:-

	egg068@lancs.ac.uk

Many thanks

Galen


From my5831@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu  Tue Mar 22 18:50:22 1994
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Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 18:49:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mark P. Young" <my5831@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu>
Subject: questionaire
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I'm sorry to disturb some of you but I'm doing a report on video games 
and I was wondering if some of you could answer a few questions for me.  
I would really appreciate any response.  Thanx alot.
It's on video game addiction.
If your not interested just go ahead and skip.

Questions:
----------

1)  Do you have any experience with video games?  (I know sounds stupid 
but bear with me)

2) At whay age did you first experience video games?

3)  Do to consider video games to be more beneficial or destructive?  Why?

4)  Would you consider most video games currently on the market as too 
violent?

5)  Should limitations be imposed on video games and the violence within 
them?

6)  Who do you believe should impose these limitations?

7)  At what age should children be exposed to video games?

8)  Have you ever experienced or witnessed in another person any adverse 
effects of video games?

9)  What are some solutions to the problems of video games?

Again thank you for filling this out.  I owe you one!!

				Thanx!!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I   Mark Young           I   "They shall come all for violence,         I
I                        I     their faces shall sup up as the east     I
I   'A.B. Normal'	 I      wind, and they shall gather the         I
I 	U.C.F            I       captivity of the sand."                I
I     Orlando, Fl        I                    -DUNE                     I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

	You like picking on smaller people?!
		Well, I'm smaller!
			PICK ON ME!!!!

			-Wolverine

_______
_______)___
           )                                      (Rippp!)
    (========================>--------------
             )
    (========================>--------------
             )
    (========================>--------------
__________)


From LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU  Wed Mar 23 03:58:12 1994
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Date: 22 Mar 1994 10:32:53 -0500 (EST)
From: LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
Subject: powerglove
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Welp, I found a glove at a yard sale..

Did the wiring just as described in the Virtual Reality Creations book
and hooked it up..

All I get are some of the LEDs on the receiver display (the thing that hooks
up over the CRT or television)...whenever I turn the glove on (I feed it 5V
from an external source, just like the book suggests), either all of those 
LEDs turn on, or just some of them.  The glove makes beeps when I push the
buttons, but the LEDs on the receiver never blink.  I didn't get a manual with
this glove...is there something screwy here?  Does the glove need to be 'reset'
or something?

Very, very frustrated...like I said, I follow the instructions in the "rend386
bible" *exactly*....and all I get is "looking for glove"...and it just sits...
no beep from glove, nada, nichts...

Anyone know what the problem might be?  Thanks a mil...


From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Wed Mar 23 16:49:25 1994
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To: "Mark P. Young" <my5831@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: questionaire 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Mar 94 18:49:44 EST."
             <Pine.3.89.9403221837.B27863-0100000@pegasus> 
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 14:49:53 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Hello there.

1) Yes I do.  I have been working with computers since I was 5 (making
it 10 years now!) and have programmed a few (if you've ever seen Rubber
Man, let me know!)

2) As I said before, 5.  Actually, I guess it was 3 - I played Pong.  (I'm ancient!)

3) This is a mixed answer.  They seem to be both, but for different
reasons.  To the programmer, games provide experience.  To the user,
games provide mental challenge (in some cases).  However, they
sometimes also provide users with bad ideas, i.e. the violence in Doom
and Mortal Kombat 1-3 (i.e. Doom is just one notch below NC-17, yet
5-year-olds have played it more than me.)  Fortunately, many games,
i.e. Sonic the Hedgehog and Tetris, are popular yet do not advocate violence.

4) It is hard to tell, as I have not looked at many recent games. 
Mortal Kombat 1-3 are definitely too violent.  Doom is even more
violent, making it hard to stomach (for myself; I have a weak stomach
when working on the computer for hours on end).  Puzzle games, i.e.
Tetris, etc., are in most cases not too violent.  (There must be ONE
out there which is violent, maybe?)  In many games, the violence is
like that in cartoons, such as the Mario Brothers games, so they should
be considered in the same way as cartoons; there is nothing wrong with
a drawing falling off a cliff and then being impaled on some sharp
rocks.  (Prince of Persia, however, should NOT be considered a cartoon,
on this note.)

5) On violent games, the same limits should be applied to these as on
movies.  For example, Doom, like Total Recall, should have monitoring;
i.e. at Page One (a local book/software/coffee shop) the workers there
should not have allowed a large group of pugnacious preeschoolers play
Doom.  Also, the developers should know better; by having realistic
blood, guts, and gore, ID is probably not being exactly the model
software company; they should, instead of making their wonderful VR
engine as realistic as possible in terms of blood, should make it more
of a thinking game; instead of pushing over enemies with the chain saw,
one should be required to solve puzzles.

6) These limitations should be imposed by parents, software sellers,
BBSses (i.e. restrict access to shareware Doom to those with a birthday
of 1979 or earlier (seeing as how 1978 is my birthyear!)), and, mostly,
the software developers; without them, we would not NEED the
limitations from the others.

7) They should be exposed to thinking games as soon as possible; allow
them to develop their brains before their trigger fingers.

8) Yes I have; after watching a 12-year-old pump $5 into Mortal Kombat
II, I asked him why he liked it.  He said, "because there's blood and I
kill people."  I asked him if he would like to witness that in the real
world, and he promptly walked off.

9) The best solution is the same as that for diseases such as AIDS:
Abstain from making, abstain from transmitting.

You're welcome for filling it out.  And if you ever see a game called
Quantum the Porcupine, I have written it to be as least violent and as
most thinking as possible.  (This won't be available for a few years or
so; I need to find a perfect development toolkit under Turbo Pascal 7. 
Any suggestions?)

Joshua Shagam

From REIDAJ@mscd.edu  Wed Mar 23 20:19:07 1994
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From gfink@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au  Thu Mar 24 05:00:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 20:00:29 +1000
From: gfink@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr G. Fink)
Message-Id: <9403241000.AA28410@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Questions....


Ok People,
	What I would like to know is what people are using the PowerGlove 
and REND386 for?
Are we just a bunch of hackers mucking about in a mini-cyberspace. Put simply
is there any one out in Academia land that are working with these tools. Whats
it being used for?, has anyone published anything aside from David Sturmans
thesis?
       To answer some of my own questions for you, I am doing a minor thesis
on the powerglove and probably REND. Some of the ideas that I have had include
defining gestures for use in Windows(TM) or perhaps a 3d CASE tool in REND.
       These are lots of questions but I really want to know whats happening
out there. Any answers should be posted for every one to see.

If you can't answer any of the above then how about: What are you doing with
REND? Has any one built any application with REND?


Thanks in advance,

Gary Fink

---

******************************************************************************
*               Gary Fink:                                                   *
*               gfink@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au                                 *
*                                                                            *
*         "Do, or do not... There is no try.." Yoda, TESB                    *
******************************************************************************


From WALL@bng.ge.com  Thu Mar 24 09:49:35 1994
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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 9:47:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Sean Wall, x3736" <WALL@bng.ge.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <940324094710.2a40545f@bng.ge.com>
Subject: Use

Hi all,

        In response to the question "What are we using Rend for?", I
did use it in my masters thesis on modelling flight control systems.
I wrote my own code using the Rend386 libraries, including using
the PowerGlove and the Sega glasses.  It turned out pretty well.
My advisor really got a kick out of it.  By the way, I found out
that using a really quiet power supply for the glove makes
the tracking much smoother.  I was originally pulling +5V
power from the joystick port on my PC and I was experiencing a lot
of jitter in the glove response, even after deglitching and hysteresis.
I then built a +5V source using a 9 volt battery and a 7805 voltage
regulator and the glove response immediately improved.  I guess I was
picking up noise from the PC in using the joystick port (ground loop
or something...)  Anyway, using Rend helped tremendously since I didn't
have to write the graphics engine.


-Sean

 (wall@bng.ge.com)


"I wish I had a witty saying to put at the bottom of MY mail messages."
   -No one in particular


From lefebvre@pbush.com  Thu Mar 24 14:17:25 1994
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Funny little quip

Hey guys,

	I know this isn't rend related but I think you will really appreciate
this.  I am sorry if this is inappropriate(sp?).


---
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equpped with 18,000 vaccuum tubes
and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vaccuum
tubes and perhaps weigh 1 1/2 tons.
        Popular Mechanics, March 1949

In pioneer days they used oxen for heavy pulling, and when one ox couldn't
budge a log, they didn't try to grow a larger ox.  We shouldn't be trying
for bigger computers, but for more systems of computers.
        G. Hopper

Life was simple before World War II.  After that, we had systems.
        G. Hopper

If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee
-- that will do them in.
        Bradley's Bromide

I have a cat named Trash.  In the current political climate it would seem
that if I were trying to sell him (at least to a Computer Scientist), I
would not stress that he is gentle to humans and is self-sufficient, living
mostly on field mice.  Rather, I would argue that he is object-oriented.
        Roger King

Computers can figure out all kinds of problems, except the things in
the world that just don't add up.
        James Magary

Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the
usual way.  This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody
thinks of complaining.
        Jeff Raskin, interviewed in Doctor Dobb's Journal

The most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is that if they
foul up there's no law against wacking them around a little.
        Porterfield

pixel, n.: A mischievous, magical spirit associated with screen displays.
The computer industry has frequently borrowed from mythology: Witness the
sprites in computer graphics, the demons in artificial intelligence, and the
trolls in the marketing department.
        Jeff Meyer

---

	Thanks for your patience...

---
  __________________________________________________________________________
 /\  \  \  \________|          Marc A. Lefebvre         |_________/  /  /  /\
|  \  \  \__________|         Software Engineer         |___________/  /  /  |
|\  \  \____________|    CyberBase Technologies Inc.    |_____________/  /  /|
| \  \______________|       Software Developement       |_______________/  / |
|  \________________|      9-1B Windingbrook Drive.     |_________________/  |
|\__________________|    Guilderland, New York 12084    |___________________/|
|-USA World Cup `94-|___(518)452-0927___(518)452-5800___|-USA World Cup `94--|
|*********** Makers of the virtual reality software, Virtuoso (tm) **********|
 \__________lefebvre@pbush.com______________________marc@csh.rit.edu________/
      	      	      	 "I'd rather be Windsurfing!"


From telly!web!mail.uunet.ca!tdkcs!isle!mchapman@zoo.toronto.edu  Thu Mar 24 15:45:41 1994
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Message-Id: <m0piaa4-00039UC@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>
From: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>
Subject: power glove
To: rend <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 22:23:06 -0500
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is it possible to redefine the glove routine in rend?

ie -make different finger recognitions.

and can you add movement to the glove? i'd like to be able to point in 
a direction and making a motion move through the world.


| Tass Chapman | m.chapman@ieee.org | FIDO 1:221\403     |
| Conestoga College- Elec' Tech' Eng. Telecommunications |
| Kitchener Ontario Canada				 |
"OOPS... I guess that's not a thing conductive to a long life."

From knights@gov.on.ca  Thu Mar 24 20:53:45 1994
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From: knights@gov.on.ca (Shawn Knight)
Message-Id: <9403250158.AA17973@govonca.gov.on.ca>
Subject: Re: power glove
To: mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca (M.Chapman)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 20:58:04 EST
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <m0piaa4-00039UC@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>; from "M.Chapman" at Mar 20, 94 10:23 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> 
>  
> is it possible to redefine the glove routine in rend?
> 
> ie -make different finger recognitions.
> 
> and can you add movement to the glove? i'd like to be able to point in 
> a direction and making a motion move through the world.
> 
> 
> | Tass Chapman | m.chapman@ieee.org | FIDO 1:221\403     |
> | Conestoga College- Elec' Tech' Eng. Telecommunications |
> | Kitchener Ontario Canada				 |
> "OOPS... I guess that's not a thing conductive to a long life."
> 

You can, I did it.  Much easier to move around with the glove when you can
point.   But you gotta program and recompile to do it.   Basically all I did
in the main procedure was look at the gesture structure (this is vague since
I did it about a year and half ago) and if it is pointing then move the
ex,ey and ez to the x,y and z position of where the palm is.   It is cool,
since in the next redraw your body will be where the palm is during the
current frame and the palm automatically advances moves to the proper
position for the next frame.   This is also a speed control, move the glove
closer to your body and you will step in smaller amounts, farther out, the
more of a step.  Lift the glove up and you go up, down and you go down, left
and right and ...
 
Pretty easy to do, about 7 lines of code.

-- 

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Fri Mar 25 17:05:42 1994
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To: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Funny little quip 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 24 Mar 94 13:42:20 EST."
             <9403241842.AA17875@pbush.com> 
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 14:56:01 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Then, of course, there is the cursor, who is a naughty boy with soap on his breath!

Murphy's law: Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.
Commentary on Murphy's law: Murphy would have liked computers.
Shagam's law: You can fry an egg on a Pentium without butter!

Actually, in addition to the demons in AI, there's also the daemons
which rule our everyday lives on the internet! (i.e. Chat daemons, Mail
daemons, server daemons, etc.)

Commentary on Porterfield: That's my monitor.

Law of disk compression: In the end, it is easier, less expensive, and
easier on your hair follicles to just BUY ANOTHER HARD DRIVE! :D


/\        /|
\/______ //______
/Joshua Shagam

From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Sat Mar 26 13:10:44 1994
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From: earth <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Message-Id: <199403261815.NAA26484@hobbes>
Subject: idea
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 13:15:08 EST
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CONCEPT:  instead of using the point/fist/pinch commands for object
rotations in vr386 environments, designate active polygons on the palm and
ventral surfaces of the hand which select the object; keep the "grasp"
effect of the fist.  This way, to select an object, you place your hand
against it and close your fist.  Comments/Suggestions/Executions
appreciated!

-a. carra
PS> are you still out there, Frauke?

From BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu  Sun Mar 27 01:13:50 1994
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 27 Mar 1994 00:11:45 CST
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 00:11:45 -0600 (CST)
From: BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: Mouse movement in Rend386
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Hi folks!
  I'm trying to write a little demo with Rend386 and I'd like to let the
user move around with the mouse (left and right turn, forward looks down,
back looks up, left button moves forward, right button moves backwards).
I'm running into a slight problem though, when the bouse coordinates
(oops, mouse, not bouse) reach their limits, all movement stops in that
direction.  Is there some way to reset the mouse driver, or assign mid-range
values to the mouse coordinates through my program?  My movement routine
works as follows:  I read the last coordinates with "mouse_last", and the
new coordinates with "mouse_read".  Based on the differences between X's
and Y's, I call the do_key routines for left, right, etc...
 
  If I'm barking up the wrong tree altogether, please let me know!  I'm
happy to take any helpful suggestions!

  Thanks!!
   -Jason Barile

From boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Sun Mar 27 01:58:50 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 01:58:30 -0500
From: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9403270658.AA10203@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Extrusion in OGRE


At user request, I have added another new object type into OGRE.  It
allows you to extrude a single n-pointed convex polygon to a specified
height.  Since this is a pretty minor addition, I am asking you all
whether I should
A.  Upload the new EXE and SRC zipfiles as 5.01 or something.
B.  Remove the "convex" limitation and then upload.
C.  Hang on to it until I get more new stuff becasue it's such a piddly
    upgrade.

And just how annoying IS the restriction to convex polys?  You can VERY
easily model any convex extrusion as more than one extrusion type, since you
give 2D cartesian coords for the poly points.  Couldn't be easier.  

Or maybe someone has an idea for a more new capabilities so we can get up
to at least a 5.1 upgrade and be worth sending, huh?



From beta@eskimo.com  Sun Mar 27 06:42:05 1994
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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 10:37:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Nick Moffitt <beta@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: power glove
To: Shawn Knight <knights@gov.on.ca>
Cc: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9403250158.AA17973@govonca.gov.on.ca>
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> 
> You can, I did it.  Much easier to move around with the glove when you can
> point.   But you gotta program and recompile to do it.   Basically all I did
> in the main procedure was look at the gesture structure (this is vague since
> I did it about a year and half ago) and if it is pointing then move the
> ex,ey and ez to the x,y and z position of where the palm is.   It is cool,
> since in the next redraw your body will be where the palm is during the
> current frame and the palm automatically advances moves to the proper
> position for the next frame.   This is also a speed control, move the glove
> closer to your body and you will step in smaller amounts, farther out, the
> more of a step.  Lift the glove up and you go up, down and you go down, left
> and right and ...
>  
> Pretty easy to do, about 7 lines of code.
> 
> -- 
> 
Give us that code.
	NOW!
 Buhahahhaaaa...
    I want.
  

From hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca  Sun Mar 27 14:43:53 1994
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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 14:36:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Henderson u <hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject: source code
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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  I know this isnt directly related to REND386 but even so, I figured the
people here would be the ones to know.  A friend of mine is connecting a
PowerGlove to his PC, and he's using the theglove.c source code from
Waite's  Virtual Reality Playhouse.  He seems to be haveing timing
problems because he thinks the code is written for a 25Mhz and he wants to
know if there is code for a 33 or 66.  Any help out there?  
Thanks much.

Rick
aka Stormshadow...
-=A STORM oft hides 'neath a veil o' SHADOW=-

<Disclaimer:The author takes no reponsiblities for the stupidness of his SIGS>



From rmason@WPI.EDU  Sun Mar 27 14:42:33 1994
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To: earth <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: idea
In-Reply-To: <199403261815.NAA26484@hobbes>
References: <199403261815.NAA26484@hobbes>


>>>>> "earth" == earth  <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu> writes:
earth> CONCEPT: instead of using the point/fist/pinch commands for
earth> object rotations in vr386 environments, designate active
earth> polygons on the palm and ventral surfaces of the hand which
earth> select the object; keep the "grasp" effect of the fist.  This
earth> way, to select an object, you place your hand against it and
earth> close your fist.  Comments/Suggestions/Executions appreciated!


The problem I see with such a process, is the unstateable fact that
being in a virtual environment one shouldn't have to touch an object
to perform an function on it.  Living in a virtual space one can break
free of hindering physical barriers.  I as a user want to be able to
point at objects (wherever they are) and have them be selected (a "ray
select" operation).  Then I can operate on them from a distance.

-bob
 rmason@wpi.wpi.edu

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Sun Mar 27 16:54:40 1994
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To: BARILEJB@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Mouse movement in Rend386 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 27 Mar 94 00:11:45 CST."
             <01HAG3JH5SDI8XV3UX@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> 
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 14:55:15 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

I believe v5 of R386 allows mouse movement.  You can probably get the
source for it and look at that; It may use a low-level driver - the
mouse outputs more than ax, bx and cx whenever called.

What you may want to try to do is as follows (in Turbo Pascal, my
favorite language and the only one I know interrupts in)

uses
  dos, crt;

const
  ax = <whatever mouse driver command you want to test>;

var
  regs : registers;

begin
  repeat
    regs.ax := ax;
    int (42 {I think}, regs);
    with regs do
      writeln (ax, ' ', bx, ' ', cx, ' ', {etc...});
  until keypressed;
end.

This will repeatedly send the command set in ax (like 1, 2, etc.) to
interrupt 42 (the mouse driver - I THINK!) and write out the arrays. 
(The writeln statement needs to output all the registers.)  If you have
a reference manual with your mouse or driver, it may have a
programmer's reference in back.  (My Genius mouse has one, but it's in
BASIC and assembler.  Good thing I know both of them!)

Glad to be of help,
Joshua Shagam

From joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu  Sun Mar 27 16:58:20 1994
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To: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
Subject: Re: Extrusion in OGRE 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 27 Mar 94 01:58:30 EST."
             <9403270658.AA10203@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu> 
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 14:59:02 -0700
From: joshuas@hornet.highland.nmhs.edu
X-Mts: smtp

Why should it be any harder to do concave polys?  Or maybe have two
functions - extrude convex, extrude concave.  (Maybe need to register
to do concave or something? <g>)

What type of extrusion is it?  (I haven't had a chance to see OGRE yet
because I have no way of getting files off the InterNet and don't want
to fool around with UUE mail.  Maybe you could send me a UUE of a .ZIP
or something?  How big is the UUE of the executables? (don't care about source))

(I'm assuming OGRE is for DOS.)

Joshua Shagam

From phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au  Sun Mar 27 20:52:43 1994
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From: phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au (Christopher Phillips)
Message-Id: <9403280151.AA01742@rama.ee.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: object editing
To: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 09:51:55 +0800 (WST)
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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> included.  By script-based, I mean that instead of drawing an object
> by mousing around, you write a program that describes how to construct the
> object out of geometric primitives.  The script language is very simple, and

Speaking of which, does anyone know of any PD or low-cost shareware
out there that _does_ let you edit polygonal objects by 'mousing around'?
Preferably for X11, dos, windows or c64..  (And no, I do not have a
powerglove)

I'm sort of working on one on and off, but more off than on, as I have too
much else to work on.. :-)

Christopher.

From boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Mon Mar 28 03:12:02 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 03:09:19 -0500
From: boeren@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
Message-Id: <9403280809.AA24167@crash.vsl.ist.ucf.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: DEVEL5


I just DLed devel5.zip and compiled it.  I am using Borland C++ 3.1
and I did a prj2mak on the project file.  I don't know if this includes
the tcconfig.tc files.

My question is: Why does the screen shake every time I move?  If I
    load up an object and try to just walk towards it, it moves horizontally
    back and forth a little bit.  It seems to effect to object sometimes.
    
And to Bernie & Dave:
    How are the new versions going?  Can you give us any kind of progress
    report or tentative release date or maybe just a list of what new
    features may be included?

Also, I always get about 20 or so bounced messages that say "Undeliverable
Mail" whenever I send to this list.  Does everyone else ge this?  How
can I fix it?


From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon Mar 28 05:24:11 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Mon, 28 Mar 1994 10:42:42 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <20792.9403280942@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: idea
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 10:42:39 BST
In-Reply-To: <199403271942.OAA05830@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>; from "Bob Mason" at Mar 27, 94 2:42 pm
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Bob Mason said:
> The problem I see with such a process, is the unstateable fact that
> being in a virtual environment one shouldn't have to touch an object
> to perform an function on it.  Living in a virtual space one can break
> free of hindering physical barriers.  I as a user want to be able to
> point at objects (wherever they are) and have them be selected (a "ray
> select" operation).  Then I can operate on them from a distance.

Several VR systems (eg. DIVE) allow this sort of interaction.  It's
often called "action-at-a-distance".  Why not try coding it into REND386?

An obvious problem is going to be glove-jitter -- if you're aiming a
"laser-pointer" at a distant object then a small positional/rotational
error in the glove will translate to a large error when trying to hit
the distant target.  But you could get round this using some sort of
"snap-to-grid" type effect.

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald" | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From lester@132.183.108.14  Mon Mar 28 19:59:06 1994
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Date: 28 Mar 1994 15:44:31 -0800 (PST)
From: John Lester <lester@132.183.108.14>
Subject: RE: powerglove
Sender: John Lester <Lester@blacksun.tiac.net>
To: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>,
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---------------Original Message---------------
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From: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>
Subject: RE: powerglove
In-reply-to: <01HA9PLRYOIQ8WZ571@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> from
 "LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU" at Mar 22, 94 10:32:53 am
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> 
> Welp, I found a glove at a yard sale..
> 
> Did the wiring just as described in the Virtual Reality Creations book
> and hooked it up..
> 
> All I get are some of the LEDs on the receiver display (the thing that hooks
> up over the CRT or television)...whenever I turn the glove on (I feed it 5V
> from an external source, just like the book suggests), either all of those 
> LEDs turn on, or just some of them.  The glove makes beeps when I push the
> buttons, but the LEDs on the receiver never blink.  I didn't get a manual with
> this glove...is there something screwy here?  Does the glove need to be 'reset'
> or something?
> 
> Very, very frustrated...like I said, I follow the instructions in the "rend386
> bible" *exactly*....and all I get is "looking for glove"...and it just sits...
> no beep from glove, nada, nichts...
> 
> Anyone know what the problem might be?  Thanks a mil...
> 
> 
 don't worry about the lights.. sometimes ya get all of em sometimes they blink

did you make sure to edit your REND.CFG file to include the pg device info?

there are about 4 lines in the file DEVICES.CFG. copy those lines into
the REND.CFG file then run it :rend -g xxx.wld and it shoudl work. also
what port are yoi in ? i found it worked best for me when i used a male
DB25 and used lpt1.


| Tass Chapman | m.chapman@ieee.org | FIDO 1:221\403     |
| Conestoga College- Elec' Tech' Eng. Telecommunications |
| Kitchener Ontario Canada				 |
"OOPS... I guess that's not a thing conductive to a long life."

----------End of Original Message----------

-------------------------------------
Name: John Lester
E-mail: Lester@132.183.108.14 (John Lester)
Date: 03/28/94
Time: 15:40:58

This message was sent by Chameleon 
-------------------------------------

Well, I checked the LPT port address..and guess what?  My machine was not using 
the 'default' of 378H.  It was using 3BCH.  Never figured that the LPT1: port 
address would be nonstandard..since this machine is an 'out of the box' Gateway 
486-66.  

Lesson learned: Assume nothing!

Also, I discovered that one of the fingers was not responding.  Upon taking the 
glove apart, I found the wires to the middle finger transducer were falling off. 
 Appears that they were corroded (perhaps the kid who used the glove spilled some 
liquid in there?..or maybe human sweat?).  I re-soldered the connection, and it 
now works perfect.

Strange that this glove is the only "low end" glove out there..and it isn't even 
manufactured anymore!  One would think that *some* company out there would be 
making low-end hobbyist gloves for the likes of us....with all the buzz about VR 
in the community these days, I'd expect they could sell quite a few.  

VR fascinates me...yet it seems *extremely* 'embryonic' these days...and I don't 
see more low-end stuff coming out..I only hear about *high end* equipment that 
I'll never see/afford...

Thanks again for your note..appreciate the suggestions.




From cybercom@panix.com  Mon Mar 28 20:35:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 20:32:31 -0500 (EST)
From: William Meredith <cybercom@panix.com>
Subject: Re: source code
To: Richard Henderson u <hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca>
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9403271416.A20238-a100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
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I would highly suggest contacting Mark Pflaging who is liste in the book
as he has done the definitive oglove work and his timings are
automatically adjusted by one of his config programs. I have not been able
to get most of the versions of REND386 to work properly with a powerglove
without the assistance of Mark's code.
Hope this helps.

Bill Meredith
cybercom@panix.com

On Sun, 27 Mar 1994, Richard Henderson u wrote:

>   
>   I know this isnt directly related to REND386 but even so, I figured the
> people here would be the ones to know.  A friend of mine is connecting a
> PowerGlove to his PC, and he's using the theglove.c source code from
> Waite's  Virtual Reality Playhouse.  He seems to be haveing timing
> problems because he thinks the code is written for a 25Mhz and he wants to
> know if there is code for a 33 or 66.  Any help out there?  
> Thanks much.
> 
> Rick
> aka Stormshadow...
> -=A STORM oft hides 'neath a veil o' SHADOW=-
> 
> <Disclaimer:The author takes no reponsiblities for the stupidness of his SIGS>
> 
> 




From REIDAJ@mscd.edu  Tue Mar 29 17:14:42 1994
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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 15:12:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: REIDAJ@mscd.edu
Subject: Newbie question
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Ok, heres an obvious newbie question: Where can I find .wld world files
for use with Rend386 via anonymous ftp ?
thanx in advance-
reidaj@zeno.mscd.edu

From LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Mar 31 03:59:37 1994
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Date: 30 Mar 1994 12:12:38 -0500 (EST)
From: LESTER@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU
Subject: sega glasses
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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So..

My powerglove works fine...now, on to the shutter glasses.

I have a pair of Sega glasses...made the parallel interface modification..and 
noticed a couple things..

1) I can't get the monitor to go into 'flicker' mode..(yes, I've checked the
config file).  I select everything recommended (I'm following the book
"Virtual Reality Creations")..but no go.  Does anyone have a config file that
*definitely* works?  If someone could mail me a devices.cfg and a rend386.cfg
file that works with the powerglove and Sega glasses (parallel port connection),
I would be very grateful.

2) On the diagram for the parallel port interface for the glasses in the book
VRC, they note two pins on the port called D3 and D4....but when I look at all
the diagrams of the interface circuitry, I only see references to pin D3 on the
parallel port.....where does D4 connect to? (aside from +5V, GND, and D3, there
are no other connections to be made.

I'm using the parallel interface with the mods to the Sega module card (looks
funky with all those wires jumping the pins on the card..heh!)



From barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu  Thu Mar 31 14:11:54 1994
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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 13:11:49 CST
From: barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jason Barile)
Message-Id: <9403311911.AA07131@necs.vuse>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: WANTED:  SEGA or TOSHIBA glasses

Hey guys!
  It's the logical next step in my total immersion!  If ANYONE has any Sega
or Toshiba glasses for sale, PLEASE e-mail me with your price and the 
condition of the glasses.  I'm pretty desperate, so you probably stand to
make some good money out of this!!

Thanks!
-Jason

From dsawdai@engin.umich.edu  Thu Mar 31 14:44:38 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: sega glasses 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "30 Mar 1994 12:12:38 EST."
             <01HAKZFL7WWY8WZYWD@HELIX.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> 
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 14:44:25 +0000
From: Donald James Sawdai <dsawdai@engin.umich.edu>


>I'm using the parallel interface with the mods to the Sega module card (looks
>funky with all those wires jumping the pins on the card..heh!)

Where did this setup originate?  Does it drive the glasses better than the 
serial port interface?  How is it powered (just 5V from the parallel port?  the
drive is low, and it could burn the port)?  If possible, I would like to use the
parallel port for both the PowerGlove and the Sega glasses, which would free up a
serial port and an IRQ...

Does any software support the parallel interface Sega glasses?

Does this imply that someone has the logic diagram and pinouts for the Sega
module card?

Thanks,
Don Sawdai

From BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu  Thu Mar 31 17:24:58 1994
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 31 Mar 1994 16:22:35 CST
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 16:22:35 -0600 (CST)
From: BARILEJB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: Thanks for Mouse help!
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Thanks for the mouse help everyone!  I ended up switching over to the
joystick, but I will check into VR386.  I originally began by modifying
the DEMO4 code, but got lost.  I think I need to start from the ground-up
with VR386.  The demo won't use the glove, an hmd, or a mouse (yet).  
I'll keep you all posted!

-Jason
.

From fullfeed!fullfeed.com!pcvr@spool.mu.edu  Thu Mar 31 20:42:45 1994
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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 18:31:51 PST
Reply-To: pcvr@fullfeed.com
From: pcvr@fullfeed.com
To: barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jason Barile)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: RE: WANTED:  SEGA or TOSHIBA glasses
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 615

To ALL:


PCVR Magazine is currently selling the Model N Shutter Glasses from
3DTV Corporation for $125.00 a pair.  We also have an interface available
for $30 including software.  

For those you don't know about these glasses, they are headband-based and
extremely well made unlike the Sega glasses.

--
Joseph D. Gradecki, Publisher                             PCVR Magazine
pcvr@fullfeed.com                                               PO Box 475
VRmag@aol.com                                                  Stoughton, WI  53589
70711.257@compuserve.com                              (608) 877-0909 tel/fax



From sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu  Fri Apr  1 09:57:43 1994
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Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 10:06 PST
From: sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu (Gary Sharp)
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Subject: subscribe

please subscribe me too mailing list

                                                        Thank You

From rcaldwel@ponder.csci.unt.edu  Sun Apr  3 12:52:06 1994
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From: rcaldwel@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Roger Caldwell)
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Subject: Please unsubscribe me.
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 11:53:02 -0500 (EDT)
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I have been added to this list by mistake I don't know how to unsubscribe.
Could someone unsub me please.


please send and email to 
roger@btsys.com  NOT rcaldwel@unt.edu or rcaldwel@ponder.csci.unt.edu



Thanks You 
   Roger

From SABIOG@bldg8.cnap.navy.mil  Mon Apr  4 18:36:45 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: "Steve Abiog"  <SABIOG@bldg8.cnap.navy.mil>
Date:     31 Mar 94 08:23:34 
Subject:  PowerGlove
Reply-To: SABIOG@CNAP.NAVY.MIL
X-Pmrqc:  1
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.2 (R4).

Hi...
Can anybody offer any suggestions on why the PowerGlove would not
select any object? Hooked up the Glove in accordance with the book.
Got it to respond to all finger movements but it just would not
select any object. When I select an object with the mouse, the
object will get "deselected" as soon as I make the Glove to "point"
even if it is not actually pointing at the selected object. The
Glove is plugged into port LPT1 and had to change the address from
the default 0378H to 0278H.
Thanks for any help.

From denis@bonnet.enet.dec.com  Tue Apr  5 04:03:58 1994
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From: telecom valley  05-Apr-1994 0958 <denis@bonnet.enet.dec.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
        broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: denis@bonnet.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
        rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: floppy with book "Virtual Reality Creations"


Hello the Rend386 world !

We (Digital Equipment) bought the book "Virtual Reality Creations", which
look great-- only problem is that the Floppy Disk is .. empty or unreadable !

Could one of you owners of a copy of the book too provide me with an
FTPable copy of the file (I'm mainly interested in the .PLG's and .WLD's
of course) ?

Thank you in advance, and regards,

Michel Denis
Digital Equipment /Europe - Sophia Antipolis - FRANCE




From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Tue Apr  5 07:08:13 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Tue, 5 Apr 1994 11:25:25 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <12645.9404051025@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: PowerGlove
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 11:25:22 BST
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.940331082335.1216@bldg8.cnap.navy.mil>; from "Steve Abiog" at Mar 31, 94 8:23 am
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
X-Phone-Number: +44 533 551551 ext. 8476
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Steve Abiog said:
> Can anybody offer any suggestions on why the PowerGlove would not
> select any object?

One of the problems with the demo as it comes is that it uses the same
posture for selecting and de-selecting objects.  This makes it very
easy to select something (it becomes highlighted) and de-select it
(it becomes un-highlighted) almost immediately, so you don't see any change.

Another problem is that visibility errors give you false information about
where your hand actually is.  For example, in the rooms demo, the
room with the lamp and table/ball always gives very bad vis. errors
(for me anyway) and the hand appears behind the ball etc. even though it's way
in front.

This doesn't seem to happen outside that room, eg. where the rotating sculpture
is, so I'd recommend practising on that.  Whenever I use REND386 for a demo
I keep out of that lamp/table/ball room!

Of course, a proper solution would be to hack the source code to use
different postures for select and de-select.


Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Lecturer                      | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald" | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
WWW: <A HREF="http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/cphroot.html">cph</A>

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Apr  5 17:10:26 1994
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From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <9404051830.AA16774@marconi.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: OGRE 5.0 Finally available
To: rend386-announce-outgoing@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 14:30:11 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

(To the REND386 announcements list:)

Well, I've *finally* put David Boeren's latest version of OGRE on the
ftp site (sunee.uwaterloo.ca, in the pub/rend386/ogre directory).

For those who aren't familiar with it, OGRE is basically a higher-level
way of representing objects.  It takes a description made up of primitives
like spheres, cylinders, boxes, etc and lets you generate PLG files.
It's a very handy utility for creating virtual objects.

The long delay in making it available was because of problems with our
FTP server.  The problems are now fixed.  As always, remember to transfer'
ZIP files in binary mode, and to restrict your file transfers to after hours
(you'll get much better response).

Incidentally, if you wish to be removed from the REND386 discussion
list, or know of anyone who would like to be added, send mail to
majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca -- not to me!

To subscribe, send a messages with the words

      subscribe rend386-discuss

In the body of the message.  To unsubscribe, send a message with

      unsubscribe rend386-discuss

in the body.


From soward@slow.inslab.uky.edu  Tue Apr  5 17:42:15 1994
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Subject: high-res video drivers?


anyone got any high-res drivers, say 640x480 for a TSENG, or ATI mach32 card?

I realize this will drop performance, but I'd love the resolution, and one can  
always get a pentium ;-)

if not what would be involved in creating one, I glanced at the 320x400 one,  
figuring it must have to use more than one video segment at a time, and thus  
wouldn't be that hard to change...but of course some simple modifications just  
left me with a garbage screen....

---
John Soward           \ 'Across yonder oceans the natives are fierce
University of Kentucky \ Their ears are filled and their teeth are pierced'
soward@inslab.uky.edu   \ -- The Church, Priest=Aura

From sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu  Wed Apr  6 10:39:48 1994
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:39 EDT
From: sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu (Gary Sharp)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: HMD Driver

Iam to run rend386 using a HMD. Iam converting the signal to NTSC for the HMD with
a driver from Visionetics. The problem is about 1/3 of the screen on the HMD is blacked  
out the rest of the sreen looks normal.Can anyone provide me with an explanation or
solution to this problem.


                                                                                                            Thank You
                                                                                                             Gary Sharp
                                                                                                 sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu

From dsawdai@engin.umich.edu  Wed Apr  6 11:47:58 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: high-res video drivers
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 11:47:26 +0100
From: Donald James Sawdai <dsawdai@engin.umich.edu>


I have an ATI mach32, and I am also interested in Rend/VR-386 drivers.  Have they
been written?

If not (which I think is the case), I plan to write one this summer.  I have been
trying to get mach32 info from ATI (accelerated features, etc.).  Any info on
writing Rend/VR-386 drivers would be appreciated, as would any info on the Mach32.

BTW, is there a separate list for discussion of VR-386?

Thanks.


From mbogucki%home.interaccess.com@mailhost.interaccess.com  Sat Apr  9 02:29:13 1994
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From: Michael Bogucki <mbogucki%home.interaccess.com@mailhost.interaccess.com>
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Hi, my name is Mike, I'm wondering if anyone out there has had any luck 
with multiple vga cards for the use of a stereoscopic hmd??? (are there 
any drivers out there???) Any help would be appreciated... 
Thanks... (in advance)


From PCH2O@cvikwik.demon.co.uk  Sun Apr 10 11:10:55 1994
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From: PCH2O@cvikwik.demon.co.uk (Patrice Carbonneau)
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-- 
Patrice Carbonneau        | The French-Canadian guy lost in the Queen's country!
                          |           
PCH2O@CVIKWIK.DEMON.CO.UK |    

From REN@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu  Sun Apr 10 13:23:17 1994
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Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 13:23:10 -0400
From: REN@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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hey, i just bought the Virtual Reality Creations book from the Waite Group
It's Great! I can't believe what they can do with freeware I never imagined
i would ever see vr on my computer this soon.  nyway ive been playing with 
Rend386 I have a 24 bit graphics board and would like to get ahold of
some new DRIVERS to use with it... I also have the 5.0 version and heard
talk of a 6.0 version I would love to get info on this as well. please drop
me a note I'm excited to be connected.

							-kevin baker-
         ren@umass.umass.edu                                                                                                        

From mbogucki%home.interaccess.com@mailhost.interaccess.com  Sun Apr 10 17:36:47 1994
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  subscribe

Hi, I'd like to subscribe to the rend386 mailing list....

   Mike B

From gray@cs.wmich.edu  Tue Apr 12 03:26:23 1994
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From: gray@cs.wmich.edu (Curtis Gray)
Message-Id: <9404120346.AA13123@cs.wmich.edu>
Subject: REND/VR386 and Watcom C
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 23:46:55 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there are any plans for REND or VR 386 to have
a Watcom C compatible version? I have been tinkering with it for the
last few months waiting for something, but nothing seems to be coming
down the pipe. If there isn't, I will just continue the way I am going.

My plan is to remove the driver oriented stuff as that is about a good
20% - 30% of the system overhead. 

Under Watcom many of the routines that are written with ASM inline
code can be converted to C and let Watcoms optimizing compiler take
care of it. The optimizations are usually much better than even the
very best seasoned ASM programmers can do by hand.

I think it would be worth it.

Curt

From HESTES@delphi.com  Tue Apr 12 13:28:35 1994
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From: HESTES@delphi.com
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Would like to join rend386 mailing list. Saw your e-mail address in VR Creations by Stampe, Roehl, and Eagan. Please send to interet"hestes@delphi.com".
thanks,  Howard Estes in marion, iowa

From ADR@matrix.ergo.iao.fhg.de  Wed Apr 13 01:53:33 1994
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******************************************************
***  Andreas Roessler                              ***
***  FhG-IAO Nobelstr. 12c 70569 Stuttgart Germany ***
***  Tel.  0711-970-2087     Fax. 0711-970-2299    ***
***  EMail: Andreas.Roessler@iao.fhg.de            ***
******************************************************


From gray@cs.wmich.edu  Wed Apr 13 12:48:21 1994
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From: gray@cs.wmich.edu (Curtis Gray)
Message-Id: <9404131650.AA20512@cs.wmich.edu>
Subject: VR386 and Watcom C
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 12:50:53 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Well, I think the port to Watcom is going ok for now. I have gotten the
RENDERER code to compile without errors or warnings. The major stuff, 
like removing the video driver technology, and insuring that the video
code is compatible with Watcom, I could use some help on. If anyone out there
wants to jump in, especially if you have experience with assembly language
and Watcom C, please do!

I have some other ideas for enhancement which will be perfect for multi-
user environments if we make this port happen!

Curt

From boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Wed Apr 13 13:08:29 1994
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From: boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Watcom


Is anyone out there interested in working on a Watcom C++ version of
rend386?  Or just a Watcom VR renderer at all, since it doesn't need to
be based on all the same source code?  If anyone wants to try, I have
a full set of 16.16 Fixedpoint math functions in Watcom, and also
graphics libraries for 320x200 and another library for all the ModeX
modes.  The ModeX library supports up to 400x300 and 400x600!
Personally, I would suggest 320x200 for now.  I don't have a good polyfill
yet, but I at least have fast lines and some other stuff.  
Let me know if anyone wants any of this stuff...


From boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Thu Apr 14 03:29:45 1994
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From: boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Stuff


Most of this message concerns Watcom ports of REND/VR-386.

I have the Watcom fixedpoint libraries ready to give to anyone who
wants it.  To anyone who doesn't know, these are 16.16 fixedpoint math
using inline ASM for the lower level functions.  Speed is excellent, and
it includes many operations such as cross-product, matrix mult, square
roots, dot-product, and every other common operation I could think of.

Also, I have Watcom graphics libraries available.  One is for the
normal 320x200 "ModeY".  The other one covers all the X modex.  Resolutions
range from 256x224 to 400x300 and 400x600.  NOTE: 400x330 is a square
pixel mode!  (Sorry, that should say 400x300.  This editor sucks).
Anyhow, full source and everything is available for ftp at
wuarchive.wustl.edu in pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/games/programming/watcom

I expect to put all my other useful stuff there too soon.  However, when I 
tried to ftp a few seconds ago it said "Connection Refused".  I send
them when I can.

Also, I have a microsecond-resolution timer in Watcom.  Anyone who
want it just let me know.  Maybe we need a new directory at sunee?

Finally, and perhaps most important to non-programmers, I have a DOOM
patch.  I have made a polygon model of a Knight with OGRE and replaced
all the DOOM graphics of the red demons with my knight.  He has bendable
joints, so when he runs and whacks you with a sword he really bends
his hips/knees/elbows/shoulders.  It's pretty humorous, I think.
And not too hard to do, really.  If response is positive, I may do
more of them with other models.  Anyone interested, mail me.  I may
put this up on ftp at wustl in doomstuff and possibly on ftp.uwp.edu too.
Also, anyone with a good digitized "NI" sound from Holy Grail, please send it
to me and I'll include it!  The only one I sound is pretty grainy :(


From boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu  Thu Apr 14 18:23:23 1994
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From: boeren@vsl.ist.ucf.edu (David Boeren)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: FTP


Well, due to the many requests I have had today, I have put the
Watcom fixedpoint math libraries and the timer library up for ftp.
The files are on wuarchive.wustl.edu in pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/games/programming/
watcom.

BTW - To anyone I wrote to and game th wrong filenames to, the gaphics libs
    were uploaded as "w_modex.zip" and "w_modey.zip", and not as
    "modex.zip" and "modey.zip" as I may have claimed.  Sorry :)

Also, the knight textures for DOOM have been sent to wuarchive in
pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/games/doomstuff as "knight.zip".

For those of you without ftp access, I'm still willing to email you uuencoded
zipfiles of any of these libraries.

I'm very happy to see how many people are interested in these libraries,
which means that my efforts are helping a lot of people.  And isn't that
what recreational programming is for?


From my5831@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu  Thu Apr 14 21:04:57 1994
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 21:04:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mark P. Young" <my5831@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu>
Subject: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9404142036.A12056-0100000@pegasus>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I know this doesn't pertain to REND but I need help.  I can't get 
onto the Newsgroups to get an answer to my dilema.  My problem is:

I recently purchased Microsoft Visual C++ and I can't get the compiler to 
work!!!
	The Problem I have is everytime it starts to compile, I get a 
Message saying:

Not enough memory to load c:\msvc\bin\dosxnt.exe
	CL returned error code1:

What do I do!!!!!!!!!!

Please help me!
--------------------THanx!!

About the questionaire,  I am trying to have someone load it to an FTP 
site in WordPerfect for Windows 5.2 format.  It will be my whole report 
and not just the survey I did.

I'll get back to you all on that!

			L8tr!!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I   Mark Young           I   "They shall come all for violence,         I
I                        I     their faces shall sup up as the east     I
I   'A.B. Normal'	 I      wind, and they shall gather the         I
I 	U.C.F            I       captivity of the sand."                I
I     Orlando, Fl        I                    -DUNE                     I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

	You like picking on smaller people?!
		Well, I'm smaller!
			PICK ON ME!!!!

			-Wolverine

_______
_______)___
           )                                      (Rippp!)
    (========================>--------------
             )
    (========================>--------------
             )
    (========================>--------------
__________)


From jwt55187@isr0148  Thu Apr 14 22:09:46 1994
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From: jwt55187@isr0148 (Jeffrey W. Thompson)
Subject: Rendering for Unix/Linux
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 09:11:17 +0000 (GMT)
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Hello everyone,
   I was wondering (due to all the talk of rewriting source code for different
compilers),  if anyone has thought about doing any work for a unix based
operating system? Especially for a linux based system?  Or if any descent
rendering code exists for a linux system.  Preferably nothing that is
so high powered that you need an sgi to run it..  Any info or thoughts
would be greatly appreciated.

                                         Thanks,
                                    Jeff Thompson

jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu


From hyper!pegasus!isle!mchapman%tdkcs@uunet.ca  Sun Apr 17 02:54:33 1994
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From: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>
Subject: glove movement
To: rend <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: 	Tue, 12 Apr 1994 09:05:22 -0400
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 Hi,

	Well.. coudl those people that told me how to redifne controls
for the glove(ie: move with the glove) please tell me again. I seem to not
be able to think straight enough to figure it out right now(end term exams)


| Tass Chapman | m.chapman@ieee.org | FIDO 1:221\403     |
| Conestoga College- Elec' Tech' Eng. Telecommunications |
| Kitchener Ontario Canada                               |
"OOPS... I guess that's not a thing conductive to a long life."

From MULLE001@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU  Mon Apr 18 23:52:23 1994
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From: MULLE001@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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subscribe Tim Mulle'

From sa_hilli@csd.uwe.ac.uk  Tue Apr 19 00:29:08 1994
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From: sa_hilli@csd.uwe.ac.uk (DOC)
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Subject: unsubscribe
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unsubscribe

Pc and glove sold !! oh well ... Now can I get a glove for my 3D0 ?? he he

From torreyl@agora.rdrop.com  Tue Apr 19 10:27:53 1994
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Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 06:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Torrey Lewis <torreyl@agora.rdrop.com>
Subject: PLG files
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9404190642.A9387-0100000@agora.rdrop.com>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Does anyone know of an FTP site where I can get various PLG files for use 
in a world I am currently building? (i.e. chair, table, etc.)

Thanks for any help.

Torrey


From gray@cs.wmich.edu  Tue Apr 19 18:52:25 1994
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From: gray@cs.wmich.edu (Curtis Gray)
Message-Id: <9404192255.AA10379@cs.wmich.edu>
Subject: VR386 and Watcom C
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 18:55:01 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hi all,

While looking over the VR/REND 386 drivers, I found that there may be a way
to easily handle the adding of objects, backgrounds, foregrounds, explosions
etc to the scene that is rendered. It should be faster and more efficient
to implement a buffer in system RAM to write to, then, after everything is
drawn to the system RAM buffer, simply blit that to the video memory. 

Since system memory can be moved around on a 386-25DX at around 140 frames
per second, there shouldn't be any significant speed decrease with adding
foregrounds and backgrounds to rendered scenes. 

It should be easy to implement for someone intimate with the video drivers.
I have looked at them, and ... whew... there is ALOT going on there with
trying to make the most of latches in mode X, or Y... Believe me, if you 
haven't tried to add a background to VR/Rend 386 before, it is a real 
pain. I have implemented a multiplayer tank simulator that has bitmapped 
scrolling backgrounds, animated foregrounds, a HUD radar system, and real-time 
communications console. It took me *weeks* to get a decent frame rate.
And, although it is getting around 40fps (because of some heavy modification
of R386) it is nearly impossible to add things like bitmapped explosions,
or texture mapped polys when so much hinges on the VGA's ability to write
4 pixels at a time.

Somebody, pleeeeze volunteer to implement this. It would take me the 
better part of 3 months to do it, and I am sure there are better 
qualified gurus out there.

Drop me a line!

Curt

From hoffman@src.usbm.gov  Wed Apr 20 04:10:12 1994
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Date: Tue Apr 19 05:06:07 1994
From: hoffman@src.usbm.gov
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: 640x400x256 SVGA video driver
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If you know where I can get a working
640x400x256 SVGA video driver for
rend- / vr- 386 please let me know.

Thanks in advance,

Mike Hoffman.....hoffman@src.usbm.gov

From pflaging@seas.gwu.edu  Thu Apr 21 13:31:36 1994
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From: pflaging <pflaging@seas.gwu.edu>
Message-Id: <199404211730.NAA08941@felix.seas.gwu.edu>
Subject: VRASP: Glove & Animation Workshops at IEEE ELECTRO '94
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 13:30:00 -0400 (EDT)
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               The Second PC-Based VR Glove Workshop
                               and
             The PC-Based Based VR Animation Workshop
                           sponsored by

     The Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals 

 >> conducted as part of IEEE's Electro '94 Conference at the <<
       >> Hynes Convention Center in Boston, Massachusetts <<
                        >> May 10-12, 1994 <<

Please call ELECTRO at 1-800-223-7126 or fax 1-(214)-385-9003 to 
receive a complete registration form by mail.  Space permitting, on-
site registration will be accepted.

The Power Glove workshops focus on the applications of a Mattel Power 
Glove(TM) with IBM Personal Computers. The Power Glove(TM) is a low 
cost alternative for three dimensional input.  Topics to be covered 
include:

	- Origins of the Power Glove(TM)
	- Interfacing the Glove and the PC
	- Glove operation and troubleshooting
	- Operating Virtual Reality Software with the Glove
	- Using Two Gloves Simultaneously
	- How to Write Programs that use the Glove with C/C++
	- How to Create Virtual Worlds on the PC
	- 3D (Stereoscopic) displays with LC Shutter Glasses
	- Gesture Recognition techniques

Participants will be given the opportunity to use gloves at the 
workshop.  VRASP provides the following equipment inclusive in the 
registration fee: one Mattel Power Glove(TM); one customized PC to 
single glove connector; two DOS formatted 3-1/2 inch diskettes of 
Glove driver code and VR software written by Mark Pflaging, workshop 
instructor, other freeware VR software, and one instruction manual.  
Software provided includes DOS and Windows programs to graphically 
display glove data and gestures from one or two gloves, with full 
source code.  See "SOFTWARE DETAILS" below.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
NEW ANIMATION WORKSHOP

The VR Animation workshop focuses on the applications of computer 
animation within the realm of Virtual Reality on a PC.  Topics to be 
covered include:

  - Simple Creation and Manipulation of 3D Models within VR
  - Manipulation of Animation Figures and Keys within VR
  - Simulation of Physical properties like gravity and collisions
  - Introduction to a language that describes object behavior in VR
  - Using the Power Glove to facilitate VR interaction
  - Programming a simple VR game - tank battle

The contents of this course will be most interesting to people who 
already have some experiences in VR, and who want to learn about the 
latest method of creating VR experiences - from within VR itself!  
Attendees will learn of two complementary ways to create VR 
experiences - by directly manipulating objects in VR, and by writing 
concise programs to respond to input.  Knowledge of simple programming 
tasks is very helpful.  No special knowledge of programming techniques 
is needed.

VRASP provides software inclusive in the registration fee, on DOS 
formatted 3-1/2 inch diskettes, with the following features:
  - VR animation creation software
  - Pre-defined animation sequences
  - An easy-to-use interface for creating virtual objects
  - A simple VR language for animations and applications


-------------------------------------------------------------------
SOFTWARE DETAILS

It is required that the following equipment be available for home use 
of the software: minimum 386 PC compatible system with VGA graphics, 
and mouse.  The software can optionally support the following devices: 
up to two Power Gloves, 3D stereo shutter glasses, joystick, and a 
Sound Blaster(TM) sound card (or compatible).

Many aspects of the software were created by Mark Pflaging, the 
workshop instructor.  Documentation will be provided for each section 
of the software.  Virtual Reality software provided includes Rend386, 
written by Dave Stampe and Bernie Roehl.  (The software is provided on 
an as-is basis, however defective diskettes will be replaced.)


-------------------------------------------------------------------
DATES, TIMES, AND COST

For your convenience, the Power Glove workshop will be given three 
times during the ELECTRO show.  The cost of the workshop is $175, or 
$150 if you are a VRASP member.  Please see the registration form for 
more information.  Sign up early - this workshop is limited to 15 
attendees in each class.

Tuesday, May 10, 1994
3:00 PM - 5:00 PM

Wednesday, May 11, 1994
1:00 PM - 3:00 PM

Thursday, May 12, 1994
9:00 AM - 11:00 AM

The cost of the VR Animation workshop is $90, or $80 if you are a 
VRASP member.  The VR Animation workshop is offered once:

Wednesday, May 11, 1994
3:00 PM - 5:00 PM

Please call ELECTRO at 1-800-223-7126 or fax 1-(214)-385-9003 to 
receive a complete registration form by mail.  Space permitting, on-
site registration will be accepted.


VRASP is a non-profit organization that disseminates information 
about, and fosters interest in, virtual reality.   Power Glove is a 
trademark of Mattel.  Windows is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation.



From REN@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu  Fri Apr 22 00:58:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 00:57:58 -0400
From: REN@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu
Subject: 640x200 svga driver?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <01HBGGLVCZPE8WXABH@phobos.ucs.umass.edu>
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hey,
	I recently purchased Virtual Reality Creations and got my first 
exposure to REND 386!!  Its grat...  My version doesn't come with a driver
for my video board though.  I currently use a Cirrus logic 640x480 256
driver.  Does anyone have any ideas where I could look to find a driver
I might be able to use for REND to bost my graphics?  

				Thanks
				-ren-

From REN@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu  Fri Apr 22 20:47:51 1994
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 08:39:11 -0400
From: REN@ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu
Subject: 630x200 video driver?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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From:	IN%"REN@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU" 22-APR-1994 08:34:50.36
To:	IN%"REN@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU"
CC:	
Subj:	RE: 640x200 svga driver?

Return-path: <REN@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU>
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Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 08:34:17 -0400
From: REN@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU
Subject: RE: 640x200 svga driver?
To: REN@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU
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yeah... my past note is refering to a 640x200 driver that I might be able 
to use with rend386.  Anyone with any idea where I can find some drivers
to use with my svga card give me a buz.  Thanks
-ren-

From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Sat Apr 23 16:00:08 1994
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From: "A. Gonni" <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Message-Id: <199404232004.QAA09584@hobbes>
Subject: blue / sara
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 16:04:34 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


	I have just finished a new human body database titled BLUE / SARA

	it was developed using ogre and lots of hand manipulation.  It
contains every significant extension excepting hands (since rend already
comes with those)  my questions:
	
	1.) does anyone want me to u/l the gif of the body (looking down at
self from head)(approx 7k)
	2.) does anyone want me to u/l the actual database*
	3.) can anyone help me with animating the database for realistic
motion through compiled promgrams (see SEGA's virtual figter for ex.)
	4.) if the answers to any of the above is yes, WHERE do i upload it
(i can't seem to find an Incoming dir at sunee)

From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Mon Apr 25 12:03:19 1994
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From: "A. Gonni" <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Message-Id: <199404251607.MAA02702@hobbes>
Subject: blue / sara
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 12:07:32 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

 
 
 	blue / sara is now officially posted to ftp sites; it can be found
 at:
 
 	sunee.uwaterloo.ca /pub/incoming/blusara.zip
 	psych.toronto.edu  /pub/vr-386/incoming/blusara.zip
 
 enjoy!
 
-a. carra
 
 

From gkneighb@eos.ncsu.edu  Mon Apr 25 14:49:58 1994
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From: gkneighb@eos.ncsu.edu
Message-Id: <9404251849.AA09340@c00391-346dan.eos.ncsu.edu>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: joystick problems...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 14:49:52 EDT


	I'm having trouble using a joystick with rend386...
It works fine except for one problem... When I press down the 'A' button
on the joystick and move left it "slides" me to the right---I thought
that it was supposed to slide me to the left....
	Any suggestions as to what the problem is????


	thanks....gkneighb

From lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de  Wed Apr 27 00:20:17 1994
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From: Yueshi <lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de>
Subject: 320x400 VGA driver?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 18:47:01 MESZ
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Dear members of the discussion list,

It is understandable that a SVGA driver development for Rend386 is difficult
because that there aren't a widely accepted standard of SVGA boards. But why
is only the 320x200 mode used in Rend386? There is a 320x400 mode builded in
every standard VGA board which is used e.g. by Microsoft Flight Simulator 5.
If you are going to develop a SVGA driver for Rend386, I will prefer to make
a 320x400 driver first.

Yueshi Lai
lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de


From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Apr 29 11:05:59 1994
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From: Bernie Roehl <broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <9404291407.AA27806@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Announcing AVRIL
To: rend386-announce-outgoing@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 10:07:57 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


Release 0.9b of AVRIL is now available for anonymous ftp from
sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/avril directory.  It should also be available
from wuarchive.wustl.edu in the pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/graphics/avril directory.
The filename in both cases is "avril09b.zip".

AVRIL is a polygon-based 3D rendering engine, designed to be easier to
program with than REND386.  It's written almost entirely in ANSI C, and
will eventually be ported to a number of different platforms.  Full use of
the package currently requires the Borland C compiler.

This is essentially a pre-release of the software; the 1.00 release will
probably be out in a week or so, but I've been getting so much email about
it lately that I decided to release what I have so far.  (The name "AVRIL"
is also French for April, so I wanted to get it out by the end of this
month).

There's no mailing list for AVRIL yet, but there will be soon.  In the
meantime, if you have any comments or suggestions, send me email with the
word AVRIL in the subject line and I'll try to get back to you.


From Michael.F.Oblasser@uibk.ac.at  Mon May  2 02:27:05 1994
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From: "MICHAEL FRIEDRICH OBLASSER" <Michael.F.Oblasser@uibk.ac.at>
Organization:  University of Innsbruck, Austria
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date:          Mon, 2 May 1994 08:13:36 +0200
Subject:       last weekend in IMOLA
Priority: normal
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Message-Id: <30D7B697169@subz-nov.uibk.ac.at>

3times forula-one worldchampionship winner Ayrton SENNA, 34, died 
yesterday, Sunday May 1st, 5:03 pm MET at Bologna (Italy) hospital. 
2 1/2 hours after his crash in lap seven of the Italian formula-one 
race in Imola.

Ayrton we will never forget you!

From ROS_CONNDR@CRF.CUIS.EDU  Mon May  2 19:18:44 1994
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From mchapman%tdkcs@isle.pegasus.com  Mon May  2 20:59:27 1994
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From: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>
Subject: sega glasses
To: rend <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: 	Mon, 2 May 1994 12:09:51 -0400
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 i have a problem. I got a pair of the sega glasses free bu they have no
driver card (which is not a prob) but they have the cord cut at the glasses.

so.... i need to know what colour matches what part of the plug.

the three colours are red , black , white .

I think that black would be the outer shell , red the centre and white the
middle by looking at the schematic for the 4030 Driver but i'm not positive.

Tass

| Tass Chapman | m.chapman@ieee.org | FIDO 1:221\403     |
| Conestoga College- Elec' Tech' Eng. Telecommunications |
| Kitchener Ontario Canada                               |
"OOPS... I guess that's not a thing conductive to a long life."

From sydney.sydney.sgi.com!perth.sgi.com!bilbo.perth.sgi.com!paulb@relay.sgi.com  Wed May  4 08:50:38 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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-- 

 "My brane hurts ... My brane hurts" - D.P. Gumby
--------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul Blackmore	                         Tel:  +61 9 321 4595
 Support Manager, Western Australia      Fax:  +61 9 481 4330
 Silicon Graphics Computer Systems,      Mobile:  018 902 508
 Level 21, 197 St. Georges Tce, Perth, Western Australia 6000
 email: paulb@perth.sgi.com  SGI Mailstop: IAS-348  VM: 58442
--------------------------------------------------------------




From robert_bentley@wiltel.com  Wed May  4 09:07:38 1994
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From ddyck@charm.gandalf.ca  Wed May  4 19:06:53 1994
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From lepautre@aol.com  Fri May  6 02:43:33 1994
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From: lepautre@aol.com
X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
Sender: "lepautre" <lepautre@aol.com>
Message-Id: <9405060119.tn209996@aol.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 06 May 94 01:19:34 EDT
Subject: .WLD builder wanted...

One of my online colleagues was is looking to hire someone to custom design a
.WLD for REND386.  I told him I'd post his request on the REND386 list to see
if anyone is interested.  Please E-mail any inquiries to the address at the
bottom of the post and not me!

Jon Neill

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subj:  VR making a .wld
Date:  94-04-29 02:19:32 EDT
From: Harv7lews
To:    Lepautre

[stuff deleted]
 I am quite serious about hiring someone to make a card trick in Rend386. I'm
a working pro in the magic, comedy arena and
have 2 powergloves & 2 SEGA glasses-so it occured to me to mix
the both of them into a really novel card trick. All I need are about
6 playing cards each numerically different. I have the magic part 
already worked out, now just need the VR graphics. 

Lewis
harv7lews@aol.com

[Anyone interested?? -jon] 

From csm5337@hertz.njit.edu  Fri May  6 10:25:17 1994
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From: csm5337@hertz.njit.edu (Reggae Ambassador)
Message-Id: <9405061311.AA10030@hertz.njit.edu>
To: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca, rend386-announce-outgoing@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re:  Announcing AVRIL

Hey Bernie,
	Thhe first thing that I have to say is that I had REND386 and i I
bought the book VRC, I was never able to write any thing using rend.  I
got AVRIL from sunee a few hours ago and have already done all the examples 
with modifications.  Excelent work.  The only thing is can I create all
shapes , say rings and arcs, eith the given primatives? Will the official
release have support for the "GLOVE" and stuff (not really in mportant, compared)
to other shapes)?

Good Work!!!

...Conrad

P.S. Keep my address for the mailing list please, and if there is any thing 
I can do to help let me know.

From alberto.demiguel@scb.rediris.es  Tue May 10 13:22:47 1994
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Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 10:14:33 UTC+0100
From: Alberto de Miguel <alberto.demiguel@scb.rediris.es>
Subject: Information
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: 
 <31*/G=alberto/S=demiguel/OU=scb/O=rediris/PRMD=iris/ADMD=mensatex/C=es/@MHS>
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I am a spanish student of Virtual Reality.
I know the book "Virtual Reality" form Waite Group.
I would like to know about other books about this object.
If this information is available in some ftp-anonymous-server
or archie-server or other friendly service, please send me
E-mail at:
alberto.demiguel@scb.rediris.es
Yours sincerely.

From 100265.3533@CompuServe.COM  Sat May 14 08:47:37 1994
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Date: 14 May 94 08:45:32 EDT
From: Carlos Carreto <100265.3533@CompuServe.COM>
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From uchef002@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE  Sat May 14 13:52:45 1994
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From: uchef002@HRZ.Uni-Bielefeld.DE
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Subject: Re: Announcing AVRIL
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 14 May 94 19:50:46 MESZ
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Dear user:

Well, I must say that AVRIL is really a good work. But it is TOOO slow! The free
VR packages have all a problem and that is the speed. Don't believe that using
full C programming will make VR on personal computer better. It is really
nessesary to program in assembler at critical parts. Look at the example like
flight simulators on the PC. At today's situation I would prefer to use a mix
by VR386 and AVRIL.

Yueshi Lai
lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT! 	This message is send, because of possible FidoNet problems, from a
			public account of my site, names under the administrator of the 
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			reply to "lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de"! 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From OlympiCAD@aol.com  Mon May 16 00:53:29 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 00:34:31 EDT
Subject: DXF to PLG utility needed

Greetings from Atlanta...

I am in need of an updated version of the DXF2PLG translator dated
11/92 that was pulled from sunee.waterloo.ca.  It appears that
Edmond Schindler (the stated author) is no longer on Compu$erve.

Does anyone have a version that will read AutoCAD Release 12
files?

Thank you in advance for a direct e-mail response to
OlympiCAD@aol.com


From pflaging@seas.gwu.edu  Mon May 16 09:18:25 1994
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From: pflaging <pflaging@seas.gwu.edu>
Message-Id: <199405161316.JAA03652@felix.seas.gwu.edu>
Subject: Sega Glasses / Two Gloves
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 09:16:41 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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"do you know the colours of the wire for the sega glasses.?
i have a pair with no card or cord (it was cut-off at the glasses)

so i need to know what colour goes with what part of the jack 
(white,black,red /centre,end,tip of phono jack)"

Just experiment until you get it right.  I really don't think you could
break them, just take reasonable precautions.  Make sure you have a 
working sega glasses / serial interface FIRST, so you can eliminate that
factor. 

Here's the two glove info:

PowerGlove Interface for Parallel Port on IBM

This file contains instructions for constructing a
connector to go from a Nintendo Power Glove to a
parallel port, presumably on a PC.  It also contains
instructions for creating a "two glove" connector,
which connects two separate Power Gloves to one
parallel port.

BIG NOTE:
  Assemble at YOUR OWN RISK.  I have assembled this
  cable successfully from these directions, BUT any
  damage resulting from construction or use of this
  cable is YOUR problem, not mine.
  (just in case... <g>)



The Connector:

       * 1
   7 * * 2
   6 * * 3     Looking AT the connector on glove cable
   5 * * 4

Pinout:
  1: Ground
  2: Clock
  3: Latch
  4: Data
  5: N/C (lightgun)
  6: N/C (lightgun)
  7: +5V

Connecting it to Parallel Port:
  Glove      Parallel Port
  -----      -------------
    1           18  GND
    2            2  D0
    3            3  D1
    4           13  SELECT (input)

Power:
  Connect pin 7 on glove to any location with +5V from
the computer.  Pin 1 on any gameport is a good place.
Or, use the keyboard connector.  The +5V on keyboard
should be pin 5 (may be wrong here, I'm using an XT
pinout) as follows:

  Looking at back of computer:
        3   1
        5   4
          2

The Cable:
  I highly recommend buying one of the extender cables (the
Curtis Super Extendo cable is around $7 for 2 cables) to
chop up for the connector.  This makes it easy to also use
other Nintendo devices and allows TESTING the glove and
still being able to exchange it if defective.  (Plus you get
a long cable to the control box).


Chris Babcock
CompuServe 72657,2126
10/18/91


Two Gloves:

Connecting them to Parallel Port:
 1st Glove      Parallel Port
 ---------      -------------
    1           18  GND
    2            2  D0
    3            3  D1
    4           13  SELECT (input)

 2nd Glove      Parallel Port
 ---------      -------------
    1           18  GND  (connect to same pin as 1st glove)
    2            4  D2
    3            5  D3
    4           12  PAPER OUT (input)

You should note that the "1st Glove" is exactly the same as the
single glove hookup given by Chris B.  So if you already have a
single glove connector, you don't need to disconnect any of the
wires that are already there.

Alternate Connection:
It should be possible to simply wire an identical "1st Glove"
connector and connect it to a spare parallel port.  The software
should detect and use the 2nd glove as if it were connected to
the same parallel port.  I HAVE NOT TESTED THIS since I only have
one parallel port, but it really should work.  Let me know if
you can't get it to work.

Power:
Connect pin 7 on glove 2 to any location with +5V.  Obviously,
you should be able to use the same location as the first glove's.
Twice as much current will be drawn.  (If you're using a battery,
it'll wear out twice as fast.)  If you're using the keyboard or
gameport power as Chris suggests, there should be no problem.

The Cable:
See the above section.  You should get a second Super Extendo
Cable, but maybe you already have one since they come in packs
of two!

Although no left handed Power Gloves were ever made, it is
possible to build one from the parts of a Power Glove - I've
built two "better" gloves this way.  I also changed the code
from a right-right systen (where two different people are
using the gloves), to a left-right system where one
person has both hands in gloves.  For that purpose, I may
refer to the "1st Glove" as the "Right Glove" and the "2nd
Glove" as the "Left Glove".  If you have a hood for your
parallel port connector, you may wish to label the two
Nintendo Cables as "left" and "right" before putting the hood
back on.

The Sensors:
Where do you position the second set of sensors?  (In case you
don't know, the sensors are housed in the L-shaped bar that was
designed to go on top of a TV.  It's the piece that has the little
red lights.)  It is easiest to simply piggyback
the sensors, and hold them together with some duct tape or similar
adhesive.  (Now that I think about it, those little Velcro pads
might work OK.)  Basically, you want the sensors in close
proximity, but make sure they do not block each other!  Here's
a diagram of how mine are set up:

	    /----\	            /-----\
	    |    |=================|       \
	    \----/	            \--+ o  |
	/----\	               /-----\ |o o |
	|    |================|       \| o  |
	\----/	               \--+ o  |o o |
				  |o o |----/
				  | o  | ||
                                  |o o | ||
				  \----/ ||
				    ||   ||
				    ||   ||
				    ||   ||
				    ||   ||
				    ||   ||
				    || /----\
				    || |    |
				    || \----/
                                  /----\
                                  |    |
                                  \----/

I had to use 5 pieces of tape to get them to stay together
well, but I'm sure there's other ways.

Software:
I have modified REND386 and the DOS demo and made a new Windows
app that uses the "two glove" setup.  They all access the
same driver which "seeks out" gloves on three different
parallel port addresses, then uses the "alternate polling
technique" for avoiding conflict between the two gloves.
One glove is polled, then the other glove is polled, then
the first glove, etc, etc.  So, the ultrasonic pulses from
one glove are sensed before the pulses from the second glove
are sent out.


From steve@navier.highland.nmhs.edu  Mon May 16 09:39:37 1994
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From sim2@tempo.nest.nl  Mon May 16 18:37:07 1994
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From: sim2@tempo.nest.nl (Sim Yskes-2)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: DXF to PLG utility needed


 O> I am in need of an updated version of the DXF2PLG translator dated
 O> 11/92 that was pulled from sunee.waterloo.ca.  It appears that
 O> Edmond Schindler (the stated author) is no longer on Compu$erve.

I've made a new version, but no docs. Shall upload it to CIS.

Gr. Sim


From apostolo@cs.utwente.nl  Tue May 17 02:59:29 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


unsubscribe


From sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu  Tue May 17 13:41:54 1994
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From: sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu (Gary Sharp)
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Subject: demo4b


I am expierencing problems in running demo4b with a NTSC driver.The driver works
great with Rend-386.I tried to recompile demo4b but I am missing STANDARD.HPP
and INI.HPP.Can anyone please provide assistance.



                                                                                                               THANKS
                                                                                                                 GARY SHARP
                                                                                                  sharp@acme.ist.ucf.edu

From sim2@tempo.nest.nl  Wed May 18 14:32:22 1994
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From: sim2@tempo.nest.nl (Sim Yskes-2)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: DXF to PLG utility needed


 O> I am in need of an updated version of the DXF2PLG translator dated
 O> 11/92 that was pulled from sunee.waterloo.ca.  It appears that
 O> Edmond Schindler (the stated author) is no longer on Compu$erve.

I've made a new version, but no docs. Shall upload it to CIS.

Gr. Sim


From @kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca:davecru@ersys  Wed May 18 21:15:18 1994
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Subject: DXF to PLG convertor
From: davecru@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (David Cruickshank)
Message-Id: <9asJmc1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
Date: 	Wed, 18 May 1994 18:53:07 -0600
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1

I have created a number of objects using Autocad 11, and would like to 
use them with Rend386.  Can anyone point me toward an FTP site that might 
have such a beast?  Thanks in advance.
 
Dave Cruickshank
davecru@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca

--
David Cruickshank   davecru@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca   
Edmonton Remote Systems   Serving Edmonton/Northern Alberta since 1982

From ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu  Thu May 19 14:04:55 1994
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From: "Andrew D. Goodfellow" <ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>
Sender: "Andrew D. Goodfellow" <ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>
Reply-To: "Andrew D. Goodfellow" <ruadg344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu>
Subject: PG modifications
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9405191249.A397-b100000@glen-ellyn>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hi:

	Has anyone ever taken the PG apart and remounted it on a
different glove?( i.e. one that fits the hand better ) If so,
please let me know how you did it, what type of glove and how
it worked after it was remounted or in some way modified. The glove
seems very clumsy around the finger joints the way it is designed 
and I would very much like to redo it. Any help/ideas would be greatly 
appreciated.

Andrew.

 -- Andrew D. Goodfellow  < RUADG344@glen-ellyn.iit.edu > --
            -- Illinois Institute of Technology --
                                            
                                                 _/
            _/                     _/             _/
          _/ _/           _/    _/              _/
        _/   _/    _/    _/ _/   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/
      _/     _/   _/_/  _/ _/_/      _/
    _/      _/   _/  _/_/ _/  _/    _/
   _/      _/   _/    _/ _/   _/   _/
    _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/       
          _/                     _/
          _/                    _/
          _/                   _/
           _/                 _/
            _/               _/
              _/__          _/
                           _/
                           / 







From beta@eskimo.com  Fri May 20 01:35:18 1994
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From ryan@cs.wits.ac.za  Fri May 20 06:24:07 1994
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Date: Fri, 20 May 94 12:21:25 +0200
From: ryan@cs.wits.ac.za (Ryan Sean Rubin)
Message-Id: <9405201021.AA09826@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Subscribe
Reply-To: ryan@cs.wits.ac.za

Hi, please subscribe me onto your mailing list

Ryan


 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Ryan Sean Rubin                                                        |
| Department of Computer Science (Honours)                               |
| University of the Witwatersrand                                        | 
| Private Bag 3                                                          |
| WITS    	       	     Telephone:-  (011) 716-4080?                |
| 2050    	       	                                                 |
| South Africa    	     Email:-      ryan@concave.cs.wits.ac.za     |
|                                                                        |
| Research :  Power-glove as an alternative input device                 |
|							                 |
|  "Beware of geeks bearing gifs ...  "                                  |

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From: "M.Chapman" <mchapman@isle.waterloo-rdp.on.ca>
Subject: sega glasses
To: rend <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: 	Fri, 20 May 1994 22:06:51 -0400
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 does any one know what the seag glass colours are ? 
i have a set but they have no cord .. just the red,white,black
colour .. so i need to know what colour matches what
part of the phono jack.


| Tass Chapman | m.chapman@ieee.org | FIDO 1:221\403     |
| Conestoga College- Elec' Tech' Eng. Telecommunications |
| Kitchener Ontario Canada                               |
"OOPS... I guess that's not a thing conductive to a long life."

From fullfeed.com!pcvr@fullfeed.fullfeed.com  Sat May 21 19:37:24 1994
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From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
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May 1994

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


	PCVR Magazine MAKES AVAILABLE LOW-COST HMD


PCVR Magazine is shipping The Alternative HMD immediately.  This HMD is designed for those who are tired of waiting for a low-cost HMD.


ENCLOSURE
The Alternative HMD is enclosed in a black or red fiberglass helmet with attractive lettering.  An easily accessible and adjustable headband allows the HMD to fit most all heads.  The units weighs approximately 6 pounds and is monoscopic only.


LCD
The LCD unit measures 3.8" diagonally and has an effective resolution of 240 pixels horizontal by 146 pixels vertical.  Note the actual LCD resolution is greater, however, a grouping of three screen elements is necessary for on e color pixel.


OPTICS
To create an immersive effect, the LCD is viewed through a set of optics.  These optics are mounted securely in front of the LCD and are made of plastic to avoid injury if the optics were to be damaged.  The LCD seen through the optics appears in the center of your view with a 1/2" to 1" border on all sides.


FIELD OF VIEW
The horizontal field of view is approximately 70 degrees and the vertical field of view is approximately 60 degrees.


SOUND
The Alternative HMD includes a pair of small headphones permanently attached to the inside of the helmet.


CONNECTIONS
There are two connections necessary for the HMD to be operational.  The first is power.  A 9V power supply is include with the system.  The second connection is video.  The units requires an NTSC composite video signal to display a picture.  An IBM PC will require a VGA-TO-NTSC converter (also available from PCVR Magazine). All of the connections are made available at the end of a 12-foot whip.


WARRANTY
The HMD is backed by a 60-day warranty and comes with a 7-day money-back guarantee.


COST
The cost of The Alternative HMD is $750.00 plus shipping ($35.00 US/Canada, $75.00 Overseas - standard service).  Special shipping arrangements is extra.  Prepayment is required.  We accept VISA, MasterCard, American Express, company check or money order (drawn on US Bank in US Funds).


CONTACT:

PCVR Magazine
PO Box 475
Stoughton, WI  53589

(608) 877-0909 tel/fax
pcvr@fullfeed.com email


From XBCASTANEDA@CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU  Mon May 23 09:08:49 1994
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From: XBCASTANEDA@CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU
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	Virtual Reality Creations, the place where I got your address, is an excellent book.  Please enter me on your mailing list.
	Also, I would appreciate the addresses of places where the latest version of REND386 is available.
	Thanks for making a great product.

--B. Castaneda
  xbcastaneda@fullerton.edu

From shawnk@navier.highland.nmhs.edu  Mon May 23 14:49:04 1994
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From hadley@atc.boeing.com  Mon May 23 18:00:47 1994
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---------       Nifty quote goes here     ---------

Brent Hadley
hadley@atc.boeing.com



From y977@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca  Tue May 24 08:32:11 1994
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From BLADRAC@TC2.MHS.CompuServe.COM  Tue May 24 13:54:30 1994
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To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Body Tracking
Message-Id: <940524175153_555063.0_DHL23-1@CompuServe.COM>

Has anyone found a way to track a body in about a 16ft. diameter space.

I have been looking for something that is non-contact,  ultra-sonic, and 
cheap!
(Yeah, I know, dream on...)

If you know of anything or have heard of any developments, please let me 
know.

You can reach me at:  bladrac@tc2.mhs.compuserve.com

I am designing a game using VR386, and a 6DOF joystick.

I heard that NASA had experimented with a system like the one I described.

Thanks!


From phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au  Wed May 25 00:33:52 1994
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From: phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au (Christopher Phillips)
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Subject: Re: Body Tracking
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Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 12:32:31 +0800 (WST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <940524175153_555063.0_DHL23-1@CompuServe.COM> from "BLADRAC@TC2.MHS.CompuServe.COM" at May 24, 94 01:51:53 pm
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> Has anyone found a way to track a body in about a 16ft. diameter space.
> 
> I have been looking for something that is non-contact,  ultra-sonic, and 
> cheap!

I know you were asking about ultrasonic, but had you considered using
a system where you place a light at some point on the object,
and use a few cameras to track this point?  (eg, place a
VR helmet on a person with a light on top, kill the room lights,
and mount 2 or 3 cameras on the roof looking down from different
positions).

TI makes some very inexpensive CCD chips which should be able to make
cameras good enough for this application.  To quote the comp.robotics
FAQ,

| Texas Instruments
| TI makes a $35 CCD Imager, the TC-211, with 192x165 resolution.
| Following article is on a design for a camera using this chip over a
| parallel port from a PC. Telescope Making, Issue 46, Winter 91/92
| Newark Electronics sells the TC211-M for around US$50.00 See TI's
| Array Image Sensor Products data manual for more details.
 

ANy comments on the feasability of this idea?



-- 
Christopher Phillips  (shrydar on IRC/#c-64)
phillips@ee.uwa.edu.au
http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~phillips

From BLADRAC@TC2.MHS.CompuServe.COM  Wed May 25 15:37:50 1994
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Date: 25 May 94 15:09:28 EDT
To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Re: Body Tracking
Message-Id: <940525190927_555063.0_DHL58-1@CompuServe.COM>

>Thought of using Doppler radar? Most units can track a man sized object at 
10m,  >and only cost about >USD50...use two and do triangulation to find 
out where the  >body is...

My only concern would be the speed of the samples.  How fast can it 
calculate?  How about accuracy?  I would image such a system would need to 
be accurate to an inch or two.  I don't think drift would be a problem with 
radar.  With a 10 meter range, you could have virtual sporting events.

Some of the ways that I have thought  or seen for tracking a body are:

Cameras mounted on the helmet, like those at UNC, and a series of infra-red 
LEDs in the cieling.  The response time is excellent but you loose tracking 
if you tilt down more than 20 degrees.  The cameras are heavy also but with 
new versions that should not be a problem.  

I checked on optical gyroscopes.  These little units run about $3000 a 
piece and can give you fairly accurate readings.  The sample rate is also 
good.  The units themselves run anywhere from 1lb to 3 lbs.
A gyroscope hooked up with an accelerometer might do it, but now the 
technology is just too bulky and expensive.

Dave Stampe used an infra-red tracking system, but said that the range 
wasn't that good.

I took a power glove and mounted it like the Logitech head tracker, I got a 
better range than the logitech, but the rotation is crummy and the range is 
still limited.  Alot of noise also.

I have been working with some other individuals on developing a "grid" of 
ultrasonic transmitters that would allow the user to move about in an area 
only limited by the size of the grid.

The new flock of birds with the extended range for one transmitter gives me 
an effective range of about the 16' diameter that I was looking for, but 
just for one unit the cost is upwards of $7000.

I have looked at the supermarket scanners and thought that there must be a 
way to use a large version of that to track someone.  Maybe three barcode 
stickers on the HMD? :-)

I considered a head tracker that was actually a chin tracker where you 
would have a small sliding tube attached to a chin strap.  This with a 
special kind of potentionmeter, you could read head tilt.  And a 
potentiometer attached to the other end could give you rotation.  This is 
great for a stationary system, but it still does'nt solve the problem of 
body tracking.  The advantage of this system is a greater range of rotation 
sampling.  Your chin moves much more than the center of your head by your 
ears.

I think that the ultrasonic system will ultimately be the least expensive 
to build.  Its just that I have to find someone who knows ultrasonics and 
is willing to develop the tracker.

I am developing a VR game called Virtual Knight.  I have already built a 
stereoscopic  HMD with two active matrix LCDs.  The unit has an open top 
for comfort and air.  It weighs about 3.5 lbs and has about a 35 degree 
FOV.  There is no focus or ocular distance adjustment necessary.  Just put 
it on.  BTW, you can wear glasses with it.  I have built an ultrasonic 6DOF 
joystick where the transmitter is mounted on your chest.  It works 
incredibly well.

The player will be in a 16 foot arena.  In front of you is a knight.  As 
you approach the knight, he swings at you.  Your joystick is your virtual 
sword.  You will gain points by how well you battle him.  Ultimately the 
body tracker will be very important.  Currently I just have a head tracker 
and move by a small thumb joystick.  The entire game is based on VR386.  
With a Dual Lightning VGA card to drive the separate images, we can get 
nearly SGI workstation speed.> 30 frames/second in each view on a 486/66.

I need some help, I have done all I could.  I am not a programmer and I 
have reached the limits of my abilities as far as that goes.  I need 
someone who can program specific code for VR386, such as collision 
detection, scoring, and sound.  I also need someone who can build the 
ultrasonic system.

I will be releasing the early prototype at the Discovey Zone in Raleigh, 
N.C. around late June if all goes as planned.  We will be seeing how well 
the equipment holds up and also what kind changes we need to make for a 
distribution version.  

I'm hoping that if all goes well, we will be able to secure an investor(s) 
that will let us be able to pay for a more advanced system.  

When it is all said and done, this game is designed to be sold to the 
arcade market, ala W Industries.
The final list price should be no more than $25,000 for the entire system.  
Through a link, we will be able to hook up two of the units where the 
knights can be real people.  

If you are interested, or have any ideas or any connections please e-mail 
me.  I want to get a solid direction on this by this year's end.  

You can reach me at  bladrac@tc2.mhs.compuserve.com





From darko@aris.ffk.hr  Thu May 26 04:53:49 1994
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To: BLADRAC@tc2.mhs.compuserve.com
Cc: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>, darko@aris.ffk.hr
Subject: Re: Body Tracking 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "25 May 94 15:09:28 EDT."
             <940525190927_555063.0_DHL58-1@CompuServe.COM> 
Date: Thu, 26 May 94 10:51:55 +0100
From: darko@aris.ffk.hr
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Hi !

My name is Darko Katovic and I living in Zagreb, Croatia.
At this moment I'm student on Faculty for physical education. 
 
One of our research tim work on the colecting all information about
VR. 
We find your project interesting and if it's possible please send us
more information or demo's.

Thanks

                                                        Darko
 

From darko@aris.ffk.hr  Thu May 26 05:11:24 1994
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From: darko@aris.ffk.hr (darko katovic)
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To: pcvr@fullfeed.com, rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: .



From grv@dee.poli.usp.br  Thu May 26 11:53:34 1994
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From: grv@dee.poli.usp.br (Grupo de Realidade Virtual)
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe

Hi,
I would like to join the REND386 mailing list. 
Please send a message if there's some information I've forgot to send you.
My email is : grv@dee.poli.usp.br   
Thank you,
Marcelo Tocci Moreira - GRV(Virtual Reality Group) of Escola Politecnica of
Universidade de Sao Paulo (University of Sao Paulo).

From grv@dee.poli.usp.br  Thu May 26 12:24:22 1994
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From mcallaham@isc.ota.gov  Fri May 27 19:14:05 1994
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From: Michael Callaham <mcallaham@isc.ota.gov>
To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Cc: Michael Callaham <mcallaham@isc.ota.gov>
Subject: multiuser virtual worlds for REND386, VR-386, or AVRIL
Date: Fri, 27 May 94 11:33:00 PDT
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The book Virtual Reality Creations stated, on  p. 426:
> A group has been formed at the University of Waterloo to
> discuss multiuser virtual worlds, and to design a simple protocol
> to allow such worlds to be shared over a network.  By the time this
> book is published, we expect to have this protocol implemented on
> several machines; we plan to use REND386 as the basis for the
> implementation on 386 and 486 systems.  The protocol will be made
> available to anyone who wants to use it.
I want to use it!
Does it exist yet?
Where can I find out more about it?
I know of
1) the article in PCVR Magazine, no. 11, on serial interface to REND386, and
2) the POLY.EXE program on the DIASPAR VIRTUAL REALITY NETWORKS
(diaspar.com).
Is there more?
Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks!
Michael Callaham
mcallaham@ota.gov

From gjw@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au  Sat May 28 02:50:44 1994
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From: gjw@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au (Greg Williams)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

From fullfeed.com!pcvr@fullfeed.fullfeed.com  Sun May 29 19:46:38 1994
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From: pcvr@fullfeed.com (PCVR Magazine)
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CALL FOR PAPERS

**  PCVR Magazine is looking for articles dealing with 3D sound. **

Issue 18 (November/December 1994) of PCVR Magazine will have a theme of
3D sound.  We are looking for articles on any of the following topics:

        -- What is 3D Sound and how is it reproduced

        -- How to accomplish 3D sound on the PC without using a 3D
                sound card

        -- Programming the Gravis Ultrasound 3D sound card

        -- The application of 3D sound - where and what is it being used for

If you would like to write on any of these topics concerning 3D sound or
have another idea, please contact Joe at:

        PCVR Magazine
        PO Box 475
        Stoughton, WI  53589

        (608) 877-0909 tel/fax

        pcvr@fullfeed.com

The deadlines are:

        Article Topic:      June 30th
        Article submission: August 15th





From denis@bonnet.enet.dec.com  Tue May 31 11:18:24 1994
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From: telecom valley  31-May-1994 1706 <denis@bonnet.enet.dec.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: denis@bonnet.enet.dec.com
Apparently-To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Architecture design


Hello...

I am looking for articles on the use of Virtual Reality technology
in the ARCHITECTURAL design area, and also to pointers to example
.PLG's and .WLD for houses, buildings, interiors and other similar
objects.

Any response and pointers will be greatly appreciated !

Thank you in advance to the VR community !

Michel M. Denis
Digital Equipment


From alberto.demiguel@scb.rediris.es  Wed Jun  1 20:56:00 1994
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From indigo@sydney.DIALix.oz.au  Sat Jun  4 01:12:35 1994
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requesting rend386 mailing list..:), NOT subscription to it!!, InDiGo

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Sat Jun  4 15:28:15 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Sat, 4 Jun 1994 13:27:32 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <5485.9406041227@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: URL Changing
To: ukvrsig@mailbase.ac.uk
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 94 13:27:12 BST
Cc: isdale@isx.com, temerson@hitl.washington.edu, b.nutter@umist.ac.uk,
        stark@cs.uiuc.edu, snoswell@guest.adelaide.edu.au,
        adinsda@cms.cc.wayne.edu, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca,
        glove-list@nas.nasa.gov
X-Fax-Number: +44 533 541891
X-Phone-Number: +44 533 551551 ext. 8476
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Attention CyberNauts!

As of Monday 6th June, the Computing Sciences HTTP server here
at DMU will be moving.  The correct URL will be:

        http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/     (the 9999 is gone)

This means that my VR stuff will now be at:

        http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~cph/vrstuff.html

rather than http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk:9999/People/cph/vrstuff.html.

Please update any links accordingly.  Note that it might take a day or
two for the new URL to work properly, since the nameserver change will
need to propagate (we've moved machines but the www alias is the same).

Cheers,

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Senior Lecturer               | Dept of Computing Science,
Internet e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk            | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
 "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald" | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
         WWW: >>> Changed! <<< http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~cph/

From c4ah@de-montfort.ac.uk  Mon Jun  6 05:41:08 1994
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unsubscribe

From decuirjd@netcom.com  Mon Jun  6 20:40:07 1994
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From: decuirjd@netcom.com (John D. DeCuir)
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to Rend386.  Thanks.

From gfink@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au  Thu Jun  9 21:46:48 1994
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 11:39:32 +1000 (EST)
From: "Mr G. Fink" <gfink@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au>
Subject: CYBERMAN From Logitech
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Dear all,
	I was just flipping through a catalogue from an electronics store 
and they had advertised a product called Cyberman. It is made by a company
called Logitech and it si touted to be a 3D virtual reality controller.
It comes bundled with a few games like Doom and Shadow Caster.
	My question is: Has anyone heard of this piece of hardware and if
you have is it compatible with REND or would I need to write extra code to 
make it have full 3d use with rend.
	FYI the price was given as $147 Australian Dollars or for you
Yanks about 100 us dollars.

Thanks in Advance,

Gary Fink
****************************************************************************
*		Gary Fink:  gfink@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au                 *
*                                                                          *
*		Department Of Software Development	                   *
*		Monash University, Australia		                   *
*									   *
*            "Do or do not... There is no try.", Yoda, TESB	           *
****************************************************************************



From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Thu Jun  9 23:03:09 1994
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Via: uk.ac.de-montfort; Fri, 10 Jun 1994 04:02:52 +0100
From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <4467.9406100302@helios.dmu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: CYBERMAN From Logitech
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 4:02:43 BST
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9406101132.A3825-b100000@nella24.cc.monash.edu.au>; from "Mr G. Fink" at Jun 10, 94 11:39 am
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Mr G. Fink said:
> 	I was just flipping through a catalogue from an electronics store 
> and they had advertised a product called Cyberman. It is made by a company
> called Logitech and it si touted to be a 3D virtual reality controller.
> It comes bundled with a few games like Doom and Shadow Caster.
> 	My question is: Has anyone heard of this piece of hardware and if
> you have is it compatible with REND or would I need to write extra code to 
> make it have full 3d use with rend.

You would need to modify REND386/VR386 to work with it.  It gives
8-bit resolution in x/y and 3-value (-8192, 0, +8192) res. in the other
axes (of the top of my head at 4am).  It uses the RS232 interface
similar to a mouse.

You can get the tech specs and developer's kit from Logitech.  Ask for
the Cyberman 3D SWIFT supplement.

        Logitech Inc.
        6505 Kaiser Dr.
        Freemont, CA. 94555
        FAX   - (510)713-5038
        BBS   - (510)795-0408
        VOICE - (510)713-5338
        internet - developer_support@logitech.com

Before you get *too* excited, you might like to try one in a shop
or something.  They don't *feel* too great (like they might snap off
in your hand).

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Senior Lecturer             | Dept of Computing Science,
e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk                   | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
   WWW: http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~cph/  | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
  talk: cph@helios.dmu.ac.uk         "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald"

From weinberg@yu1.yu.edu  Fri Jun 10 01:39:38 1994
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 01:39:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Jay Weinberger <weinberg@yu1.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: CYBERMAN From Logitech
To: "Mr G. Fink" <gfink@nellads.cc.monash.edu.au>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, Mr G. Fink wrote about Logitech Cyberman:

> It comes bundled with a few games like Doom and Shadow Caster.
> 
	Did any of you purchase a Cyberman and get doom? does doom work 
with all the 3d controls of the cyberman? mine didn't and doesn't...!?!
Is there a driver for cyberman and doom?
					Steven Weinberger


From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Jun 10 17:13:31 1994
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 14:11:16 PDT
In-Reply-To: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
       "Re: CYBERMAN From Logitech" (Jun 10,  4:02am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>, rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: CYBERMAN From Logitech

They appear to have been deliberately designed to give you
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.  The upturned wrist position is very very
bad for you.

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Artisputtingtogether. Art  s th ow n  aw y.

From jroberts@rci.ripco.com  Fri Jun 10 19:33:42 1994
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From: jroberts@rci.ripco.com (Jack Roberts)
Subject: VR-386?
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what is VR-386, and where can one aquire a copy?

From fullfeed.com!pcvr@fullfeed.fullfeed.com  Sat Jun 11 17:47:30 1994
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ANNOUNCING:

                        PCVR Magazine Issue 16


Theme:  Glove Technology

Contents:

                Current Glove Technology - A review of the current glove
                                                devices

                VR Glove Sources - Where to find gloves

                Build a Better Power Glove - Use the components of a Power
                                             Glove to build a new one with
                                             much better resolution

                VR on the Internet - Where, how and what you will find

                A Look at VRBASIC - A look at Waite Group Press' VRBASIC


Regular Columns

                What's New - VR Industry News

                Telepresence - What's new in this area

                Graphics - Learn more about protected mode graphics programming

                Using VREAM - Giving objects ATTRIBUTES

                Book Reviews - What's new and how are they

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you haven't seen us in a while, you have missed our new professionally
produced and printed magazine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PCVR Magazine is your information source for PC-Based Virtual Reality.  We
provide our readers with the most up-to-date information about the hardware
and software necessary to achieve VR on their own PC.

Each issue of PCVR Magazine gives the reader three levels of information:

        BEGINNER - If you are just starting in the world of VR, you will find
        easy-to-understand articles that give you information about our
        selected theme for that issue. Beginner articles might show you where
        to experience VR or expose you to the current version of a new piece
        of software

        INTERMEDIATE - Those of you who are more advanced in VR will find
        articles about using a particular theme topic in their own virtual
        worlds.  Learn how to code a virtual hand in a VR rendering package.

        EXPERT- Written for the person who has extensive virtual experience,
        the expert articles will focus on reproducing VR hardware or software.
        These articles might show you how to build a arm-based head tracker or
        a head mounted display.

Kits and Products available for all levels of interest and skill

PCVR Magazine invites you to experience VR while still being able to
pay the mortgage

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PCVR Magazine
		--	is available for:

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					$38.00	Overseas

		--	has complete back issues available:

                                        $4.50 each  US/Canada
                                        $6.50 each  Overseas

                        Topics:
                                Issue 1: Interfacing the Mattel Power Glove
                                Issue 2: Power Glove Software
                                Issue 3: Interfacing shutter glasses
                                Issue 4: REND386 Version 3.0
                                Issue 5: Head Tracking
                                Issue 6: 3D Sound
                                Issue 7: VR Motion
                                Issue 8: PCVR Renderer
                                Issue 9: HMD - Build Your Own Under $450
                                Issue 10: Voice Recognition
                                Issue 11: Connectivity: VR over the Modem
                                Issue 12: Input Devices
                                Issue 13: Head Tracking: A Tracker under $25.00
                                Issue 14: Feedback
                                Issue 15: Arcade Systems

                --      accepts Visa, Mastercard, American Express as well as
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		--	can be reached at:

						PCVR Magazine
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			Phone/Fax:		(608) 877 - 0909

			email:			PCVR@FullFeed.Com
						70711.257@compuserve.com
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From kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  Mon Jun 13 00:18:50 1994
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From: Kevin Burke <kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: VR-386?
To: Jack Roberts <jroberts@rci.ripco.com>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, Jack Roberts wrote:

> what is VR-386, and where can one aquire a copy?

VR-386 is an enhanced version of REND-386.

VR-386 is available for downloading via ftp at: psych.tornoto.edu  
/ftp/pub/vr-386/


From BGXF@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA  Mon Jun 13 10:06:00 1994
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Date:        Mon, 13 Jun 94 10:05:30 EDT
From: BGXF000 <BGXF@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: 

Hi!  This is my first entry on the discussion, and as a matter of
fact I'm a VR beginner.  I've just sent a letter to PCVR to get a
copy of rend386, and in the meantime, what I was wondering is this:
can I import scanned photographs, or 3d objects that have been created
elsewhere into rend386?  I'm interested for two reasons - firstly,
I am working on a cognitive social psychology experiment that requires
subjects, who are visually immersed in VR, to manipulate photographs;
secondly, I am involved in a project with a photographer, in which
we will create a 'virtual installation piece', an environment
consisting of her photographs, through which the viewer can fly through.

Thanks in advance!

Chris

From don@math.unb.ca  Tue Jun 14 07:29:50 1994
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From kmac@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  Tue Jun 14 20:38:30 1994
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From: Kevin MacCuish <kmac@eagle.uccb.ns.ca>
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To: BGXF000 <BGXF@musicb.mcgill.ca>
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On Mon, 13 Jun 1994, BGXF000 wrote:

> Hi!  This is my first entry on the discussion, and as a matter of
> fact I'm a VR beginner.  I've just sent a letter to PCVR to get a
> copy of rend386, and in the meantime, what I was wondering is this:
> can I import scanned photographs, or 3d objects that have been created
> elsewhere into rend386?  

REND386 doesn't handle objects / images in the same way in which more 
conventional graphics utilities do.  Each object in rend386 consists of a 
text file describing a set of coordinates that the object occupies in a 
three dimensional grid as well as color, texture, and scale attributes.  
For example, a simple cube can take anywhere from 10 or so to 20 - 30 lines 
of code to produce on screen (depending on the complexity of the cube).  
REND386 then reads the text file and creates a representation of the 
object based on the data in the text file.  

Because of this method of representing objects and virtual worlds, it is 
not possible to import a scene or object from a pcx, gif or similar file 
type scanned or otherwise.  

As for 3d objects that were created elsewhere, it depends on what package 
was used to create the object originally.  While I have not yet tried it, 
I understand that some objects created with the software "3D Studio" can 
be adapted for use with rend386.


From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Thu Jun 16 01:10:51 1994
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Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 01:15:30 -0400
From: "A. Gonni" <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca



	after emerging from the slime of exams, i find that i can no longer
reach david boren on our project involving body databases and animation. 
can anyone out there help me? can you hear me david?

-a. carra



From tori@netcom.com  Thu Jun 16 04:38:07 1994
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From: Beyer/Nagai <tori@netcom.com>
Subject: Bitmaps, Gossamer/Mac, + Rend descendants
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Howdy,

I retrieved and skimmed through the archives for this list and couldn't 
quite find what I was looking for. I'm hoping someone out there can help.

I want to create a 3D space in which 2D (bitmap) and 3D (regular 
REND386-type) objects can be viewed by a "visitor." Ideally this space and 
the objects it contains would be compatible or nearly so with a Macintosh 
tool.

I understand (loosely) the difficulty with realtime handling of a 
"rendered" bitmap ... say a painting (sorry for not speaking the jargon 
correctly yet ...), but I'm wondering if there are tools out there that 
might be less customizable than REND386, but more adapted to the 
application I describe.

At one point in the archives, someone mentioned a couple of games 
(Wolfenstein was one) succeeding in creating "realistic" brick texture 
due to the elimination of planes existing in anything but x,y,z (not 
skewed?) .... (paraphrasing my own) ... and observed that REND386's 
ability to 1) do what it does in real time and 2) rotate in x,y,z made 
the task of correctly/realistically rendering/displaying a bitmap 
impractical.

Any ideas? I've looked a little at VR-386 and AVRIL, but they seem to 
have the same characteristics of REND386 ... being pretty near relatives and 
all. I haven't looked at Gossamer (Mac based, right?) yet, but I 
understand it is or at one time was compatible with REND386 ... or I 
guess the .WLD and .PLG files were/are. Is this still true? Does that 
compatibility carry forward to VR-386 and AVRIL? Are there other tools 
that are compatible with these files as well?

Please point me to a FAQ or another source of information if these are 
"covered" topics. Thanks for any responses. 
------
Paul Nagai:  tori@netcom.com


From kint@tudebg.et.tudelft.nl  Fri Jun 17 04:47:28 1994
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From tpoole@psi.wilmer.com  Fri Jun 17 09:02:16 1994
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From PCH2O@cvikwik.demon.co.uk  Fri Jun 17 14:51:59 1994
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That's sad but I've got to go back to Canada!
-- 
Patrice Carbonneau        | The French-Canadian guy lost in the Queen's country!
                          |
PCH2O@CVIKWIK.DEMON.CO.UK |

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From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Fri Jun 17 21:36:47 1994
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From: "A. Gonni" <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Message-Id: <199406180141.VAA06887@hobbes>
Subject: 2pg!!
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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	ok kids... i got the two gloves hooked up correctly (if power-on and
conductivity tests can be taken seriously), now i need to know: what
modifications need to be made to the configuration and data files in order
for the two gloves to work together?  should this be working already? what
do i need to do?

-a.carra

From mecjf@cara.ma.hw.ac.uk  Sun Jun 19 23:07:06 1994
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

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Jing-Jing Fang		|  Edinburgh, EH14 4AS, UK
PhD student,		|  mecjf@cara.ma.hw.ac.uk 
Mechanical Engineering	|  Fax	: (031) 451-3129	
Heriot-Watt University  |  Tel	: (031) 449-5111 ext 4386

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On Fri, 17 Jun 1994, A. Gonni wrote:

> 
> 	ok kids... i got the two gloves hooked up correctly (if power-on and
> conductivity tests can be taken seriously), now i need to know: what
> modifications need to be made to the configuration and data files in order
> for the two gloves to work together?  should this be working already? what
> do i need to do?
> 
> -a.carra

What you need to do is re-write some of the glove routines. These are 
currently only set-up for one power glove. All of the functions are 
listed in the file VR_API.H . Check and see what ones pertain to the 
glove and modify them.
A few of us here at UCCB are currently working on a similar project. We 
are rewriting to allow for multiple gloves (2) to be used from two 
computers in the same virtual space.

-K. Burke


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From 1.28::cr83::sc3asgjw@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jun 21 05:50:25 1994
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From: 1.28::cr83::sc3asgjw@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (If you can count how many disks you've got, you haven't got enough!)
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Our mail server's being decomissioned over summer, cheers for all the had work,
back in October!


Gavin Williams

From tori@netcom.com  Wed Jun 22 03:29:18 1994
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From: Paul Nagai <tori@netcom.com>
Sender: Paul Nagai <tori@netcom.com>
Reply-To: Paul Nagai <tori@netcom.com>
Subject: Bitmaps, Gossamer/Mac, + Rend descendants
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Thanks to those who responded with tips on other possible software. I 
haven't yet had a chance to go find, retrieve, and play with these 
software suggestions so I can't comment yet. However, Geoff, asked if I had 
had any responses yet and my forwards all bounced from his "preferred" 
address. I hope he's still here, I don't have his other address (on AOL) 
anymore.

So, summing up:

A. Gonni <k93ae02@hobbes.kzoo.edu> thought that XOX or VREAM might do 
what I was looking for. Said VREAM demo was available in: Adventures in 
Virtual Reality, Pub: QUE, Auth: Tom Hayward. Also mentioned he thought a 
demo of an " ... attempt" to hack REND386 so that it could support bitmaps
might be available at sunee.uwaterloo.ca via ftp. Said it required a fast 
machine!

Yueshi Lai <lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de> thought ASK3D might do what 
I was looking for.

Tangentially, it would be nice if, by posting, I didn't subject myself to 
forty or fifty undeliverable mail bounces. I still have these in a log if 
the list administrator would like to look at them and perhaps at least 
remove the bouncing addresses from the list. I sent mail direct to 
rend386-discuss-owner, but haven't yet received a response.

Thanks again, and anyone having additional information related to 3D 
software that can induct bitmap images and display them in a 3D space, 
I'd like to hear more about it.

------
Paul Nagai:  tori@netcom.com
47 Galleries, The Virtual Gallery Company







From gkneighb@eos.ncsu.edu  Wed Jun 22 16:31:44 1994
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From GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA  Wed Jun 22 19:32:29 1994
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From: COOL V <GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA>
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I would like to learn more about this thing.

+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| COOL V                    | riddle me this my brother can you handle it      |
| GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA | your style to mine you can't hold a candle to it |
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
|                   Word is bond like a mud slide - MCA                        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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From tim@bruckner.stoch.uni-linz.ac.at  Thu Jun 23 08:13:39 1994
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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 14:15:03 +0200
From: Tim Boykett <tim@bruckner.stoch.uni-linz.ac.at>
Message-Id: <199406231215.AA28051@bruckner.stoch.uni-linz.ac.at>
To: kmac@eagle.uccb.ns.ca
Subject: Re: your mail
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


there do exist implementationms and variations upon rend386
that allow the importing of gifs, and (i think) the scaling and
turning of them, at least as long as one remains "standing", and
the plane of the gif is also vertical. as i remember, it was
done as an eperiment for texture mapped walls in something
like a doom variation, or to do blitted icons for another
game of some kind.


get in contacy if you would like more info

cheers

tim boykett




> > Hi!  This is my first entry on the discussion, and as a matter of
> > fact I'm a VR beginner.  I've just sent a letter to PCVR to get a
> > copy of rend386, and in the meantime, what I was wondering is this:
> > can I import scanned photographs, or 3d objects that have been created
> > elsewhere into rend386?  
> 
> REND386 doesn't handle objects / images in the same way in which more 
> conventional graphics utilities do.  Each object in rend386 consists of a 
> text file describing a set of coordinates that the object occupies in a 
> three dimensional grid as well as color, texture, and scale attributes.  
> For example, a simple cube can take anywhere from 10 or so to 20 - 30 lines 
> of code to produce on screen (depending on the complexity of the cube).  
> REND386 then reads the text file and creates a representation of the 
> object based on the data in the text file.  
> 
> Because of this method of representing objects and virtual worlds, it is 
> not possible to import a scene or object from a pcx, gif or similar file 
> type scanned or otherwise.  

From mirkes@u.washington.edu  Thu Jun 23 11:56:11 1994
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unsubscribe


From ryan@cs.wits.ac.za  Fri Jun 24 05:44:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 11:16:12 +0200
From: ryan@cs.wits.ac.za (Ryan Sean Rubin)
Message-Id: <9406240916.AA09321@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Subscribe
Reply-To: ryan@cs.wits.ac.za

Please subscribe me to your newsgroup


 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Ryan Sean Rubin                                                        |
| Department of Computer Science (Honours)                               |
| University of the Witwatersrand                                        | 
| Private Bag 3                                                          |
| WITS    	       	     Telephone:-  (011) 716-4080?                |
| 2050    	       	                                                 |
| South Africa    	     Email:-      ryan@concave.cs.wits.ac.za     |
|                                                                        |
| Research :  Power-glove as an alternative input device                 |
|							                 |
|  "Beware of geeks bearing gifs ...  "                                  |

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------


From massing@hal.com  Fri Jun 24 19:56:16 1994
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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 16:41:39 PDT
From: massing@hal.com (Mike Massing)
Message-Id: <9406242341.AA12548@baron.hal.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:  SEGA Glasses

 
Anyone know where I might buy a pair ??
 
Also, does anyone know any other "Cheap" technique
for simulated 3D. The red-blue glasses works great
for monochrome,  but what is the current method
for those glasses they use every once in a while
on Fox tv ??
 
Thanks
Mike


From JoshuaS@aol.com  Mon Jun 27 00:37:10 1994
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	(1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA10050; Sun, 26 Jun 1994 23:19:31 -0400
From: JoshuaS@aol.com
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Sender: "JoshuaS" <JoshuaS@aol.com>
Message-Id: <9406262319.tn55396@aol.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 23:19:30 EDT
Subject: SOmething with TI CCDs

I remember somebody saying something about a $35 CCD chip and the means to
hook it up to a computer...  I have the article here, hold on a sec...  (Like
this is real time!)

The TC-211.  A $35 CCD chip which can be hooked up to a computer via circuit
described in _Telescope Making_ issue 46.

I have a couple of questions.

WHere can I get issue 46? If I can't get it, can I get the schematic off
someone else, possibly on this list?  Also, a reference to the TC-211M is
made.  What exactly is the extra M meaning?  Like, does it come with the
circuit?

I'm just wondering because I want to digitize some drawings for a game I'm
going to eventually get around to writing... :)

Oh, yeah...  Also, where can I get TI's product catalog (also referenced in
the posting)

Oh, to heck with it...  Here's the portion I'm referencing.

<<<
TI makes some very inexpensive CCD chips which should be able to make
cameras good enough for this application.  To quote the comp.robotics
FAQ,

| Texas Instruments
| TI makes a $35 CCD Imager, the TC-211, with 192x165 resolution.
| Following article is on a design for a camera using this chip over a
| parallel port from a PC. Telescope Making, Issue 46, Winter 91/92
| Newark Electronics sells the TC211-M for around US$50.00 See TI's
| Array Image Sensor Products data manual for more details.
>>>

Actually, is that posting still on comp.robotics?  if so, maybe I'll just
look for it here on AOL (now that we have newsgroups and I've subscribed to
comp.robotics!)

Joshua Shagam
/\
\\uantum

of |\.||
   |\|\/

<-======+=====->

Reasoning depends on programming, not on hardware.
  -Frank Herbert, Children of Dune

(Unless if it involves a video capture, of course!)



From lcopley@crl.com  Mon Jun 27 14:20:55 1994
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 11:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lane Copley <lcopley@crl.com>
Subject: Re: SEGA Glasses
To: Mike Massing <massing@hal.com>
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9406242341.AA12548@baron.hal.com>
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Try Weird Stuff Warehouse, (408) 434-0168.  


From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Tue Jun 28 00:17:10 1994
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From: "A. Gonni" <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Message-Id: <199406280421.AAA02961@hobbes>
Subject: activator
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 0:21:00 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


	so, has anyone done any analysis or development work with the SEGA
"activator".  i see it as having potential for the rend virtual environment. 
if anyone has pinouts, stat sheets, or theories/plans for conversion, i'd
love to hear about them!

               __________________________________________          
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			-Information Society
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From kurt@ifki50.informatik.fh-muenchen.de  Tue Jun 28 11:08:50 1994
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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 16:46:46 +0100
From: kurt@ifki50.informatik.fh-muenchen.de (Kurt Knochner)
Message-Id: <9406281546.AA44748@ifki50.informatik.fh-muenchen.de>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Watcom C with rend386
Cc: kurt@ifki50.informatik.fh-muenchen.de


Hi Folks,

is anyone out there who knows how to get rend386
working with Watcom C. I need C-source of that 
files containig asm directives.
If anyone has that C-source, please (please...)
let me know.

Hope to get a lot of response.


Kurt

From jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu  Tue Jun 28 14:04:35 1994
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Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 13:04:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Thompson <jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Unix based rendering class
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9406281255.A20746-0100000@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I am currently developing a networking VR package for Dos. I am creating my
own renderer and using the wattcp code for dos to operate the system.
I am hoping to also write a version for unix machine so that dos systems and
unix machines can interact. However I am in need of some sort of renderer
for unix based machines. Preferably of the Linux flavor. I am preferably 
looking for something written in c++ using a class structure. I do not
need something with a lot of features. Only the ability to render a list of
polygon objects. I don't need extras like device drivers and joystick inputs
etc.. If anyone knows of any packages like this or ones that could be
modified or if you just have a piece of advice I would greatly appreciate it.
I will be releasing the code as I produce it. If anyone knows what site
would be best for the placement of something like this please let me know.
Also if anyone has had experience with a similar project I would be 
interested to hear about it. I would also be happy to answer any questions
about my project or anything for that matter.
			
						Thankyou,
						  Jeff Thompson


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Thompson		Computer Science Major At The University Of Illinois
http://uxa.cso.uiuc.edu/~jwt55187/
Email: 	jwt55187@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu	or 	jwthomp@uiuc.edu
Working on Virtual Reality to Destroy the World! or at least show it a good time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au  Tue Jun 28 19:35:04 1994
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From: eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
Message-Id: <9406282334.AA02579@fir.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) standard
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 09:34:48 +1000 (EST)
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I will send it this time to rend386-discuss instead of -request :-)

Hello Everyone,

This posting is intended to raise some discussion on a new (to some) matter.

I have been on the list for a while now, followed the activity but did not
get involved actively. However, I have a flight simulator which I may try
at some point to integrate with rend386 (it now does it's own wire-frame
graphics). I am waiting for support for high resolutions (320x200 is just
not on, even 640x480 it too low for me).

However, as we are talking VR which often implies an interactive application
with multiple participants, I though it may be appropriate to mention the
emerging DIS standard that defines protocols for Distributed Interactive
Simulation applications. This is the kind of protocols used for a while
by the military in their Simnet, which had multiple simulators connected
in real time.

There is no current (to my knowledge) free implementation of the DIS standard
protocol, however the core is not that complex. I plan to implement it for
my simulator and I am trying to see if there is other interest in a free
and general implementation of DIS for use by other applications.

The benefit of DIS is that different, unrelated applications, can talk to
each other (exchanging location of objects and related info) without the
need to prior design. So a bike simulator and a house fly-through program
can become aware of each other, and you will then see the bike through a
window when it passes by and vv.

I see this as a nice feature for the rend386 project where people can put
together separate application which later can be plugged together into one
scenario and interact (or at least co-exist).

-- 
Regards
	Eyal Lebedinsky		eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au

From kwas@panix.com  Wed Jun 29 09:02:32 1994
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199406291302.AA02393@panix2.panix.com>
Subject: Re: Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) standard
To: eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 09:02:23 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9406282334.AA02579@fir.canberra.edu.au> from "Eyal Lebedinsky" at Jun 29, 94 09:34:48 am
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> [deleted cute stuff :) ]
> 
> I have been on the list for a while now, followed the activity but did not
> get involved actively. However, I have a flight simulator which I may try
> at some point to integrate with rend386 (it now does it's own wire-frame
> graphics). I am waiting for support for high resolutions (320x200 is just
> not on, even 640x480 it too low for me).

You'll notice most commercial flight simulators have a resolution of only 
320x240 or 200.  This is done to get acceptable frame rates.  640x480
without hardware assistance or a multi-cpu setup will be slow.
 
> [description of DIS standard]
> 
> There is no current (to my knowledge) free implementation of the DIS standard
> protocol, however the core is not that complex. I plan to implement it for
> my simulator and I am trying to see if there is other interest in a free
> and general implementation of DIS for use by other applications.

I believe that a company in MA has done something along these lines that
is relatively inexpensive.  You may want to contact jjones@realtech.com, he
can point you in the right direction.  That aside, I'm interested.
 
> The benefit of DIS is that different, unrelated applications, can talk to
> each other (exchanging location of objects and related info) without the
> [description of a typical scenario].
> 
> I see this as a nice feature for the rend386 project where people can put
> together separate application which later can be plugged together into one
> scenario and interact (or at least co-exist).
I would be interested in this.  However, it should not be tied to REND386,
but should be a portable extension, since REND386 is official un-supported.
Something usable with VR-386 , Avril, and others would be of more interest.
> 
> -- 
> Regards
> 	Eyal Lebedinsky		eyal@ise.canberra.edu.au
> 
Later,
   Chris

 _____________________________________________________________________________
/Chris Kwasnicki, Lead Developer, VRacker Inc.  kwas@panix.com  (212)236-1455 \
| VRASP (Virtual Reality Association of Students and Professionals) member    |
| Author of the "Making REND Work" column in PCVR (VR for the PC) Magazine.   |
| Creator of award-winning virtual worlds, ask me about VRASP, PCVR, VRacker  |
| Inc., the VRASP project "uniVRsum", or about designing a world for you      | 
\_____________________________________________________________________________/

From kwas@panix.com  Wed Jun 29 09:12:55 1994
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199406291312.AA02786@panix2.panix.com>
Subject: Re: Polhemus
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 09:12:13 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: kwas@panix.com, bburton@realtech.com, kaugust@caip.rutgers.edu
In-Reply-To: <9406282221.AA26256@caip.rutgers.edu> from "Karin August" at Jun 28, 94 06:21:24 pm
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Hello out there,

Does anyone know of or have drivers for the Polhemus trackers that work with
REND386.  This is for the VRASP project "uniVRsum" being displayed at 
Siggraph, so time is of the essence.

Also, which would be more suitable for REND?  Insidetrak or Fastrak?  

Thanks for your help,

Chris

 _____________________________________________________________________________
/Chris Kwasnicki, Lead Developer, VRacker Inc.  kwas@panix.com  (212)236-1455 \
| VRASP (Virtual Reality Association of Students and Professionals) member    |
| Author of the "Making REND Work" column in PCVR (VR for the PC) Magazine.   |
| Creator of award-winning virtual worlds, ask me about VRASP, PCVR, VRacker  |
| Inc., the VRASP project "uniVRsum", or about designing a world for you      | 
\_____________________________________________________________________________/

From amoreno@unixg.ubc.ca  Wed Jun 29 14:48:09 1994
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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 11:47:59 PDT
From: Andrew Moreno <amoreno@unixg.ubc.ca>
Message-Id: <9406291847.AA19719@unixg.ubc.ca>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Rend386 and Grids


Hi. Dowes anyone have any experience with programming wireframe models
in Rend396? 86?

How can I create a grid of a landscape in Redn386? No solids, I like
the grid effect.

Andrew

From Michael.F.Oblasser@uibk.ac.at  Thu Jun 30 05:00:18 1994
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From hensberg@escmail.orl.mmc.com  Fri Jul  1 08:07:39 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Probably FAQ question
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 08:07:31 -0400
From: Eric Van Hensbergen <hensberg@escmail.orl.mmc.com>


This is probably a FAQ, but anyways:

What are the current 'flavors' of Rend386 (ie. AVRIL, VR-386, the texture
mapping rend386, etc.), and where are they located?

Thanks,
		airwick

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Jul  1 09:44:45 1994
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Subject: Probably FAQ question (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 9:44:51 EDT
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According to Eric Van Hensbergen:
> What are the current 'flavors' of Rend386 (ie. AVRIL, VR-386, the texture
> mapping rend386, etc.), and where are they located?

The final release of REND386 (Version 5.0) is on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in
the pub/rend386 directory; get the read.me file first, since it explains
what's what.

The first release of AVRIL (Version 0.9c) is on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the
pub/avril directory; the file is called avril09c.zip, and there's also a
read.me file there.  A new version should be up some time soon.

As far as I know, the latest release of VR-386 is on psych.utoroton.ca in
the pub/vr-386 directory.

Not sure about the "texture-mapping rend386", but I look forward to becoming
enlightened about it.

From lefebvre@pbush.com  Fri Jul  1 12:40:09 1994
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From: lefebvre@pbush.com (Sting)
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Probably FAQ question


> From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca Fri Jul  1 10:31:17 1994
> X-Redirected-From: sunee.uwaterloo.ca radmail.rad.co.il@watmath.waterloo.edu
> Subject: Probably FAQ question (fwd)
> To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 9:44:51 EDT
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> Content-Length: 735
> 
> According to Eric Van Hensbergen:
> > What are the current 'flavors' of Rend386 (ie. AVRIL, VR-386, the texture
> > mapping rend386, etc.), and where are they located?
 
> Not sure about the "texture-mapping rend386", but I look forward to becoming
> enlightened about it.
> 

	I also remember a while back someone had posted that they had tweeked
rend386 to support texture maps but reported it was slow.  Maybe with the new
processors or moving to Wattcom  would speed this up.  Anyone know of what
I speek?  



From k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu  Sat Jul  2 18:22:38 1994
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From: "A. Gonni" <k93ac02@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
Message-Id: <199407022227.SAA08748@hobbes>
Subject: 3dwdemo
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 94 18:27:17 EDT
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well here's an idead for everyone looking for texture vr:

	at the wuarchive, under the ms dos /demos directory
	there is a demo called 3dwdemo  try it out!
-a carra

From 72662.410@compuserve.com  Sun Jul  3 01:30:06 1994
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Date: 03 Jul 94 01:27:38 EDT
From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@compuserve.com>
To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Freeware DIS Implement
Message-Id: <940703052737_72662.410_DHI18-2@CompuServe.COM>

> Date:       6/28/94 5:39 PM
From: eyal@fir.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
> Subject:    Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) standard
> 
> I though it may be appropriate to mention the
> emerging DIS standard that defines protocols for Distributed Interactive
> Simulation applications. This is the kind of protocols used for a while
> by the military in their Simnet, which had multiple simulators connected
> in real time.
> 
> There is no current (to my knowledge) free implementation of the DIS standard
> protocol, however the core is not that complex. I plan to implement it for
> 

Obviously, <g>, Eric has not read "What Is VR? A Homebrew Introduction and
Information Resource" (ftp://sunee.uwaterloo.ca/pub/vr/papers/whatisvr.txt, i
think), which contains the following paragraphs.....
--------
  The basic DIS protocol has been adopted as a standard for communication
between distributed simulations by the IEEE (IEEE 1278-1993).  Basic
information on DIS and SIMNET, including a C library to support the
communication protocol is available via FTP from the Internet site
taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (pub/warbreaker/NPS_DIS...). Other contact points for
DIS include:

  Danette Haworth Institute for Simulation & Training 12424 Research Parkway,
Suite 300 Orlando, Florida 32826 (407)658-5000

  Defense Modeling and Simulation Office (DMSO) has an Internet site to support
Advanced Distributed Simulation Technology (ADST). The IP address is
137.249.32.17
Administrative Contact: Kevin Mullally 407.382.4580, Technical Contact: Brad
Mohning 408.473.4962
------
Hmm, maybe it doesnt have all that data, but it does have the NPSNET
information. There is also a new release of the NPSNET system V4.0 on Taurus. I
forget exactly where it is located, but there is a WWW (.html) file for the
system that gives directions. This is an excellent site to dig around in.  Be
warned that the V4.0 of NPSNET is heavily dependent on the Performer libraries
from SGI.  The communciation level (IEEE 1278-1993, aka DIS) is not part of
Performer, so it should be accessible.

Also, DIS assumes you have a TCP protocol stack for the lower comm layers.
There are a number of other assumptions that make it work really well for
multiple vechile simulations. However, it is not intended for, or appropriate
to,  applications with direct manipulation (glove) of the environment (pick
things up, etc.)

Jerry Isdale
Illusion Inc.
(author of "What Is VR" - with V3.0 in production)

From ac@cbvox.att.com  Sun Jul  3 01:42:26 1994
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Subject: Re:  unsubscribe

unsubscribe

From plumme16@iscssun.uni.edu  Tue Jul  5 11:36:44 1994
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Subject: PowGlov/HMD
To: \rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 10:36:29 -0500 (CDT)
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	Hello and Harmony!   
		Just purchased VR Creations, and a Nin. Power Glove;
		having troubles finding a HMD or SEGA shutter glasses.
		If anyone has either for sale or knows of a garageVR
		manual that describes construction of a HMD, please 
		let me know! Thanx *0| Psi.


From randyro@microsoft.com  Tue Jul  5 13:23:51 1994
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From wl-cyberpunk-mtr@society.com  Tue Jul  5 18:38:35 1994
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Subject: RAW to FIG conversions.
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 94 18:14:12 EST



I'm curious, are there any programs that will convert the raw
polygon files that some CAD software generates into something more
usable by REND386.  Thanks.

Later... Greg Morgan


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From kwas@panix.com  Tue Jul  5 22:54:01 1994
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
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Subject: Re: RAW to FIG conversions.
To: wl-cyberpunk-mtr@society.com
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Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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> I'm curious, are there any programs that will convert the raw
> polygon files that some CAD software generates into something more
> usable by REND386.  Thanks.
> 
> Later... Greg Morgan
Greg, NorthCad-3D comes with a conversion utility for translating
it's internal format (.NC3) to .PLG

Chris
 _____________________________________________________________________________
/Chris Kwasnicki, Lead Developer, VRacker Inc.  kwas@panix.com  (212)236-1455 \
| VRASP (Virtual Reality Association of Students and Professionals) member    |
| Author of the "Making REND Work" column in PCVR (VR for the PC) Magazine.   |
| Creator of award-winning virtual worlds, ask me about VRASP, PCVR, VRacker  |
| Inc., the VRASP project "uniVRsum", or about designing a world for you      | 
\_____________________________________________________________________________/

From UUFG11A@prodigy.com  Thu Jul  7 18:57:33 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca


connect sunee.uwaterloo.ca
get pub/rend386/list-archive
chunksize 59000


From marc@rednet.co.uk  Tue Jul 12 09:45:24 1994
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From arapsang@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca  Sat Jul 16 12:53:49 1994
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Date: Sat, 16 Jul 94 12:52:53 -0400
From: Chris BELL <arapsang@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca>
Message-Id: <9407161652.AA18612@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: HELP!  Can't seem to get rend386 up and running

Hi.  I got the rend386 file from both PCVR (ordered a back issue) and from
the sunee site.  I'm a novice at programming, and have got the Borland C++
for windows and dos.  I've tried writing and compiling the PCVR 'skeleton' filebut keep getting errors.  (I had the target as dos, but the setup_render function wants parameters defined, if I remember.)  Anyway, I downloaded the zip
file from sunee, and also noticed that this was about 20k bigger.  So, I
unzipped it, and tried to compile the '*.c' files in the Borland (in windows -
can I do this in DOS?) and got plenty of errors.  I made a special 'include'
file of all the vr386 '*.h' and the others specified in the header, but still
get errors.  I'm in Montreal, and ordered through McGill's interlibrary loans
Virtual Reality Creations, and looked at it but not while a the computer.  Why
I did it that way I have no idea, but be that as it may, I had a demo running
on a friend's computer, played with it a bit, and had to get the book back to
the library, without taking advantage of the disk in it, which seems to have
had a much easier installation of rend386.  (The demo I got from the PCVR 
disks.)  So, am I not converting into c properly, or something?  Or am I just
generally inept, and have missed some really simple stuf along the way?
HELP!!
Thanks.
Chris

From netline!mark.furst@proxima.Alt.ZA  Thu Jul 21 19:10:23 1994
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Subject: Rend386
From: mark.furst@netline.co.za (Mark Furst)
Message-Id: <12f.5302.75.0C4DFE95@netline.co.za>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 23:25:00 +0200
Organization: Netline Flagship BBS +27-11-789-6084/5/6/7/8/9

To whom this may concern:

Is this address still valid? I have some enquiries to make regarding
Rend386...

Regards,

Mark Furst (mark.furst@netline.co.za)

From dstampe@psych.toronto.edu  Fri Jul 22 09:41:44 1994
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From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 09:41:45 EST
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: BOF garage VR meet at SIGGRAPH


I've had a few requests to put together a BOF meeting for 
garage VR people at SIGGRAPH.  The question of time arrives: 
the sci-vw BOF is Wednesday 8-9.  How about eaarlier the same day?
Later?  Send me your votes: I'll keep in touch and book something 
if possible.

- Dave Stampe

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From bsc060@department-computer-studies.napier.ac.uk  Thu Jul 28 01:20:08 1994
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unsubscribe rend386 bsc060@uk.ac.napier.dcs


From barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu  Thu Jul 28 19:10:12 1994
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From: barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jason Barile)
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Menelli Box plans


Gosh,  I know this comes up really often, but does anyone know where I
can find the Menelli box plans?  

Thanks!!
-Jason

From cph@de-montfort.ac.uk  Fri Jul 29 22:35:11 1994
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From: Chris Hand <cph@de-montfort.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: Menelli Box plans
To: barilejb@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jason Barile)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 1:45:55 BST
Cc: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Reply-To: cph@de-montfort.ac.uk
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Jason Barile said:
> Gosh,  I know this comes up really often, but does anyone know where I
> can find the Menelli box plans?  

A copy of the circuit diagram (plus a small bit of description) can
be found on WWW at:

	http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~cph/menelli.html

There is also some text description written by Ron Menelli which I've been
unable to find, but I've just uploaded a MS Word for Windows version 2.0
document containing this and the diagram to:

	ftp://ftp.dmu.ac.uk/pub/cms/VR/Menelli/menelli.doc.Z

...because someone else was asking about it.

Chris

-- 
Chris Hand, Senior Lecturer             | Dept of Computing Science,
e-mail: cph@dmu.ac.uk                   | De Montfort University, The Gateway 
   WWW: http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~cph/  | LEICESTER, UK   LE1 9BH            
  talk: cph@helios.dmu.ac.uk         "In Cyberspace nobody knows you're bald"

From wey@lsi.usp.br  Mon Aug  1 12:18:56 1994
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From: wey@lsi.usp.br  (Jose Daniel Ramos Wey)
Message-Id: <9408011354.AA01308@ofelia>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Shutter Glasses Shadow

Hello!
I have built the Sega shutter glasses interface to a COM port,
and it really work out fine, except that in the right eye I got 
some "shadow" from the left eye view. Is it a problem with the
circuit, with my glasses or with the timming?
Did someone else have the same problem? 

Thanks,
Jose Daniel Wey
wey@lsi.usp.br

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From Aneome@aol.com  Tue Aug  2 19:52:19 1994
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From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Wed Aug  3 12:38:09 1994
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From: Alexander Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Using the integer math library
To: Rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
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After much deliberation, I have finally come up with a game to write. The 
design requires a fixed-point math library (like the one in rend386). Has 
anyone ever tried to tear it away from the package? I downloaded the 
sources for devel4.zip (should I use devel5.zip?), and looked through the 
code. 

It seems the main math stuff is in intmath.c, intmathx.c, inttrig.c, 
mathinit.c, matrix.c ... but what I am having trouble with is how to get 
the numbers in <3.29> format and then to <30.2> format (or into <32.32> 
format), when to convert back and forth, etc. I looked through wparse.c 
and the scale3/scale4 functions look favorable but I'm not exactly sure 
what they do. 

I think I will convert the library to a collection of C++ classes. If 
anyone has any interest in this, or any info to offer ... please let me 
know (I read Virtual Reality Creations ... the info is too sparse). 

PS> Don't worry guys ... due credit will be given for all code!

Thanx in advance,
Sandy

----
Mr. Sandy Walsh| I've been carving you, to see what form you'd take. 
sandy@cs.mun.ca| You were hiding in ivory, I just wanted to free your shape
               | - The Tragically Hip



From wey@lsi.usp.br  Thu Aug  4 09:23:07 1994
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Date: Thu, 4 Aug 94 10:10:33 EST
From: wey@lsi.usp.br  (Jose Daniel Ramos Wey)
Message-Id: <9408041310.AA16344@ofelia>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Using the integer math library


Sandy Walsh (sandy@cs.mun.ca) wrote:
> After much deliberation, I have finally come up with a game to write. The 
> design requires a fixed-point math library (like the one in rend386). Has 
> anyone ever tried to tear it away from the package? I downloaded the 
> sources for devel4.zip (should I use devel5.zip?), and looked through the 
> code. 
> 
Well, Dave Stampe rewrote these routines (and many others from REND386) in the 
VR386 package. His intention was to make easier to programming with. Maybe
you should take a look.

> 
> I think I will convert the library to a collection of C++ classes. If 
> anyone has any interest in this, or any info to offer ... please let me 
> know (I read Virtual Reality Creations ... the info is too sparse). 
> 

If you do it, please let us know...

> Thanx in advance,
> Sandy
> 



Jose Daniel Ramos Wey
wey@lsi.usp.br

From Andreas.Roessler@iao.fhg.de  Fri Aug  5 17:33:32 1994
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***  Andreas Roessler                              ***
***                                                ***
***  FhG-IAO                                       ***
***  Nobelstr. 12c                                 *** 
***  70569 Stuttgart                               *** 
***  Germany                                       ***
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From pflaging@seas.gwu.edu  Fri Aug  5 22:35:00 1994
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From: pflaging <pflaging@seas.gwu.edu>
Message-Id: <199408060233.WAA20609@felix.seas.gwu.edu>
Subject: Logitech Tracker Advice & A Question
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 22:33:01 -0400 (EDT)
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Hi,
	I wanted to advise anyone working with a Logitech 3D Mouse /
Head Tracker of the following fact - it will not with Rend386 version 5
unless you disconnect the joystick before running it.  You could also
disable the joystick by changing the source code, but unplugging it is
easier.  There seems to be a conflict between the jostick device driver
and the serial interrupt driver.  Since the Logitech tracker is the only
serial device that works with Rend, it is the only device affected by
the joystick driver.
	I only discovered this after totally rewriting the Logitech
driver, so heed this warning.  I think
the root cause is that the joystick driver messes with the timer chip
(or perhaps it just disables interrupts at an inopportune time), and it
makes the serial driver very unhappy.
	I also have a question, does anyone know of a model of a tank
that already exists in PLG format, or perhaps of a low-polygon-count
tank in some other format?  I found a 10000+ polygon tank in 3DS format,
but I need something smaller.

Thanks in advance,
-Mark Pflaging

70233.1552@Compuserve.com
mtp2@well.sf.ca.us

From knights@gov.on.ca  Sat Aug  6 12:16:02 1994
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From: knights@gov.on.ca (Shawn Knight)
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Subject: Re: Logitech Tracker Advice & A Question
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 94 12:24:24 EDT
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> 
> Hi,
> 	I wanted to advise anyone working with a Logitech 3D Mouse /
> Head Tracker of the following fact - it will not with Rend386 version 5
> unless you disconnect the joystick before running it.  You could also
> disable the joystick by changing the source code, but unplugging it is
> easier.  There seems to be a conflict between the jostick device driver
> and the serial interrupt driver.  Since the Logitech tracker is the only
> serial device that works with Rend, it is the only device affected by
> the joystick driver.

I have no problem with the joystick and tracker on my PC .. the code for the
logitech tracker is screwed up only because of a bug in Borland C 3.1 .. if
you compile logipointer.c with 286 code rather than 386 it works fine!


-- 

From love@MIT.EDU  Sat Aug  6 20:40:09 1994
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From schwarz@sunarmor.dab.ge.com  Sun Aug  7 17:56:19 1994
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From: schwarz@sunarmor.dab.ge.com
Message-Id: <9408072154.AA06233@sunarmor.dab.ge.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Help with Nitendo Power Glove

Hi,

  I am looking to use a Nitendo Power glove I just got with 
REND386. No instructions came with the Glove. I have a book
on Virtual Reality that has some info. I was wondering if anyone
could email be the Power Glove FAQ, since it is no longer available
at it's original site. Also, any info on using it with REND386
would be appreciated.

thanks,

Jim Schwarz
schwarz@sunny.dab.ge.com

From plumme16@iscssun.uni.edu  Sun Aug  7 19:07:20 1994
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From ejp@world.std.com  Sun Aug  7 23:22:17 1994
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From: ejp@world.std.com (Eric J Pierce)
Message-Id: <199408080322.AA00717@world.std.com>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: VR386 Port to Watcom V10

Greetings,

What is the status of porting VR386 to 32 bit compilers
(e.g. Watcom C/C++ V10.0)?

Is this underway?  If not, I'd be interested in helping.

A few months ago there was some mail traffic about this.  Then it faded
away.  What's going on?  I'd prefer not to do this on my own
if it's been done or started already.


				- Eric Pierce
				ejp@world.std.com


From kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  Mon Aug  8 10:01:21 1994
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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 10:39:25 +100 (BST)
From: Kevin Burke <kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Collision Detection
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Myself and another student are currenttly modifying VR386 to support 
collision detection. We are having a few problems trying to modify the 
code. 
Has anyone performed this task before? If so, we would appreciate 
hearing about it. Any help that can be offered is welcome. 

 --------------------------------------------------
|                2     |                           |
|         (Kevin)      |                           |
|     Dx ----------    |  kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  |
|            2         |                           |
|                      |                           |
 --------------------------------------------------





From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Mon Aug  8 10:06:41 1994
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Date: 	Sun, 7 Aug 1994 13:16:58 -0230
From: Alexander Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Which is faster XLIB or VR-386?
To: Rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9408071325.B23757-0100000@garfield.cs.mun.ca>
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Which does a faster (triangle) polygon fill, the polygon fill system 
supplied with Rend386/Vr386 or the Triangle fill routine supplied with 
XLIB[5|6]? Or are they both so close that it doesn't really matter? 
Anyone?

Thanx,
Sandy

PS> I got the integer math stuff working, and I'm going to start on a C++ 
wrapper soon.


From etlpml@etlxdmx.ericsson.se  Tue Aug  9 04:22:57 1994
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Subject: unsubcribe me

unsubcribe me

From Andreas.Roessler@iao.fhg.de  Tue Aug  9 04:34:38 1994
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********************************************************
***  Andreas Roessler         FhG-IAO                ***              ***
***  Tel. 0711-970-2087       Nobelstr. 12c          ***
***  Fax. 0711-970-2299       70569 Stuttgart        *** 
***                           Germany                ***
***  Email: Andreas.Roessler@iao.fhg.de              ***                               ***
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From tmurff@irgate.tnrcc.texas.gov  Fri Aug 12 21:39:41 1994
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From: tmurff@irgate.tnrcc.texas.gov (Trey Murff)
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Subject: New List Member
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Hi all, I am new to this list. Is anyone out there working on any projects
with Rend386. I am particularlly interested in any projects involving
networking virtual worlds through the net. I have already been using software
developed by a friend that allows to pcs to maintain a serial connection via
a tcp or ucp connection (We play Airwarrior with people around the world).
I have also had the opportunity of visiting virtual world and playing RED
PLANET. A cool next step would be to develope a freeware multiplayer game
similar to RED PLANET using Rend386 that would allow people on the net 
to ingage in a stimulating h2h game.

If anyone is interested please contact me at this address.

Trey

From Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com  Sun Aug 14 14:52:55 1994
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From: Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: VRLINK
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: 



A person mentioned Networking Rend386. I would like to also express my
disire to do the same thing ... I have had mixed results running a
Rend386 based game demo over a modem .... 

What I have found out over the last year is two or three techniecs to
network realtime games over either modems/serial or LAN .... a few I have
tryed ... 

Serial/Modem Link : You can basically pip the key strokes from one machine
over to the other and use a case statment to see what remote key was hit,
and then do what ever action is needed.

Problems: This is a start .... but the remote machine will almost immediatly 
get out of sync with the Host .... ( X,Y posistions,heading )

Fix: You can pass a "Token" back and forth between the two machines to keep 
them both rendering at the same speed ... When you use the "Token" techniec 
you can get a VERY good frame rate if both machines are realativlly the same 
speed .... and if not they can stay synced to the slowest machine.

This is the techniec I use and it is "NOT" suitable for "LAN" games since
there is a character being sent over the LAN EVERY frame being rendered ...
let alone 10 people playing !!!!!

A better Techniec :
 There is a better way to code a LAN realtime game and I for one am not 
anywhere near close to getting it done this way ... but here is the way I 
understand it ...

You bascially syncronize your object movement code with the PC's real time 
clock interupt .... by doing this ... ALL the machines playing the game 
are synced together do to the fact that all of them have a real time clock
interupt ... 
You update the objects "coordinant data" ever clock ( or every other or what 
ever)  interupt.... but you don't "RENDER" the objects on the screen right 
away .... this is done in a big WHILE loop or something in the forground .... 
So you basically have every machine cranking out frames as fast as they can 
.... but all networked machines are updating the"object coordinant data" at 
the same time intervals, which makes the fast machines have smooth animation
while the people are moving around .... and the slower machine's having a 
choppy looking frame rate but the same object posistions .... 

This is the way I understand it ... and I have NO code to prove it using 
Rend386 ... One of the problems I was worried about using this techniec
and Rend386 was the fact the Rend mangels the real time clock interupt ....
Now ... this may not be a problem just so long as you can get a steady
timer tick for the coordinant updating. 

I have ALL the code I need for actually sending IPX packets over a LAN
and seeing who is logged in to the same program ... 
What I need is help getting Rend386 syncronized over a LAN/modem/serial
using the above techniec I have explained ... or a variant ...

Does anyone out there have something working that they are willing to
upload ???

Steve Cox
SysOp
Houston Game Designer BBS
(713) 955-8920












From chayres@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us  Sun Aug 14 14:55:08 1994
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                                   FLIN
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From sandy@cs.mun.ca  Mon Aug 15 09:27:57 1994
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From: Alexander Walsh <sandy@cs.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: VRLINK
To: Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I'm in ... this is right up my alley (perhaps vr-386 would be a better 
choice for this work as the API is *much* better).

Sandy

----
Mr. Sandy Walsh| I've been coding you, to see what form you'd take. 
sandy@cs.mun.ca| You were hiding in binary, I just wanted to free your shape.
               | - A variant on a tune from "The Tragically Hip"


From randyro@microsoft.com  Mon Aug 15 12:30:08 1994
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From FULLERWD@delphi.com  Mon Aug 15 19:47:59 1994
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Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 19:23:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: FULLERWD@delphi.com
Subject: HMD
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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HELP
I am looking for a HMD for use for Rend386 or other VR software.
Has anyone used "the alternative HMD" by PCVR or
"forte Vfx1"?  I hopt to put together a V/R sys using glove,hmd
3-sound etc.
ANY advice, info, comments would sure be appreciated.
Thanks for any help.

From oracle@io.org  Thu Aug 18 01:10:13 1994
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Subject: Modeller for rend386?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Hi, I am new to using REND386 but so far I have enjoyed what I have been able
to do with it.  My only problem is that creating scenes by hand with rend386
is extremely hindering.  I was wondering if there was a modeller in existance
that could output rend386 readable .WLD,.PLG, and .FIG files

Anyhelp would be extremely appreciated.


----------------------------------------------\-------------------------------|
|This message has been brought to you by....   \"I don't want to start any    |
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From kmac@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  Thu Aug 18 10:56:00 1994
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 11:30:44 +100 (BST)
From: Kevin MacCuish <kmac@eagle.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Modeller for rend386?
To: oracle@io.org
Cc: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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On Thu, 18 Aug 1994 oracle@io.org wrote:

> Hi, I am new to using REND386 but so far I have enjoyed what I have been able
> to do with it.  My only problem is that creating scenes by hand with rend386
> is extremely hindering.  I was wondering if there was a modeller in existance
> that could output rend386 readable .WLD,.PLG, and .FIG files
> 
> Anyhelp would be extremely appreciated.

Well, we have had some success converting Autodesk 3-D studio objects to 
plg files.  The only problem, is that the converter creates more polygons 
than are necessary.  As the number of polygons in any one object or world 
increases, the rendering speed decreases.  On a powerful 486 or pentium, 
this is not usually a problem.  But on a 386, this can drastically reduce 
performance.  

As for wld files and fig files, I haven't yet run into anything that lets 
you get away from doing them by hand.

 -------------------------------------------------
|                2     |                          |
|         (Kevin)      |                          |
|     Dx ----------    |   kmac@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  |
|            2         |                          |
|                      |                          |
 -------------------------------------------------




From cybercom@panix.com  Thu Aug 18 22:30:24 1994
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 22:30:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Meredith <cybercom@panix.com>
Subject: *.plg creation
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9408182231.A1450-0100000@panix.com>
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There has been a recent question regarding *.plg generators for creating 
objects for use with REND386. Because I thought this might be of general 
interest, I am posting to the group instead of answering the individual 
specifically.
	Although there are a few different ways that operate successfully
to cut creation time, they require either expensive software or patience. 
The two best ways are to use either AutoCad or 3dStudio to create your
environment, and then use a converter like dxf2plg.exe or 3ds2plg.exe
which will convert your files automatically. There is also a utility
called plgx.exe which will remove excess polygons and combine them as much
as possible to help speed things up. If you do not have the budget for the
AutoDesk programs, there is a program called OGRE.EXE which is available
from the PCVR bulletin board that uses a scripting language to create
rather complex *.plg objects with a minimum of hassle. As you might
expect, you have to create the object, load REND386, load the *.plg file
and see if it is what you expected. If not you must exit REND386, re-enter
OGRE and make your adjustments, recreate the object, exit OGRE, load
REND386, load the *.plg file,... etc. Somewhat tedious, but free. 
	Hope this is of some assistance! 
	Bill Meredith
	cybercom@panix.com




From wey@lsi.usp.br  Fri Aug 19 08:39:45 1994
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Date: Fri, 19 Aug 94 09:31:16 EST
From: wey@lsi.usp.br  (Jose Daniel Ramos Wey)
Message-Id: <9408191231.AA10439@ofelia.lsi.usp.br>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: PLG creation, convertion, etc.

Hi.
In answer to oracle@io.org, I should say that many converters for
comercial modelers, like 3DStudio and Autocad, are avaliable at
sunee.uwaterloo.ca, directory /pub/rend386/converters, via anonymous
ftp.
I'm currently working on a better version of the converter from 3Dstudio
to PLG files. This version will support spotlights, textures definition
using 3Dstudio, and maybe later animation via .vue files.
If somebody is interested in helping me, or is working on the same area,
please e-mail me.


Jose Daniel Ramos Wey
wey@lsi.usp.br

From wang@cave5.msfc.nasa.gov  Mon Aug 22 12:05:12 1994
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From: wang@cave5.msfc.nasa.gov (Dr. Peter Hor-Ching Wang CAVE Lab)
Message-Id: <9408221559.AA02284@cave5.msfc.nasa.gov.msfc.nasa.gov>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: rend386

Hi, I am using VPL virtual reality system at NASA/MSFC. And I am new to rend386.
I am thinking to build a PCVR lab. I would appreciate very much if you can give me
some help on h/w configurations and available s/w as well as the data files.

Thanks !

From bladrac@tc2.mhs.compuserve.com  Tue Aug 23 08:31:58 1994
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From: <BLADRAC@tc2.mhs.compuserve.com>
To: <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Virtual Knight- HELP!!!!
Message-Id: <940823123047_555063.0_EHF70-1@CompuServe.COM>

This message is a call for help!  We are developing a VR arcade game called 
Virtual Knight. 

Virtual Knight is a game system where the player can battle another knight 
in a completely immersive environment.  The player dons a HMD and a vest.  
He will have a sword with which he will defend/attack the opposing knight.  


The player will be able to walk around free of incumberances in a 16' 
diameter ring.  In the HMD this is represented as a Medieval arena.    
There will be no cable tether attached to the player.   Video/sound and 
data will be transmitted back and forth to the game platform from a 
backpack on the player and the main computer. 

The sword will shake in the player's hand when a strike is registered and 
the vest will thump when he is hit.  The game can be played where the 
opposing knight is computer controlled or another human player in a second 
game system.

We have completed the prototype testing and have our eyes set on a release 
version with many features.   For information see the July/August issue of 
Computer Pictures magazine on page S-22.

We are in the process of finishing our business plan and already have a 
list of contacts and areas we need to persue.

I am looking for individuals/companies that are wanting to be part of a 
virtual game company in the early stages of development.  

Because we are just getting starting with the actual organization of the 
business, there are many possibilities for profit and partnerships.

We are more interested in being a software game developer for the game 
system rather than the actual production company and distributor.   

We are looking at different possibilities for growth.  These could be:

1.  Venture Capitalists providing the initial investment.
2.  Strategic Partnerships with existing companies that have a product tie 
to VR.
3.  Licensing of the system to third party developers. 
4.   Purchase of the rights for development and release of the entire 
system, while  we retain a commission on units sold and the right for 
future title development.

We have a need for Creative game designers, programmers, and electronic 
engineers who specialize in short range wireless data transmission.  

It is going to be after first quarter '95 before we actually produce the 
next generation of the game system, but we are testing the interest level 
now.

If you would like to get involved, or have any questions please call or 
write to:

Bob Ladrach
Digital Images
2136 Gorman St.
Raleigh, N.C. 27606

(919) 859-1557.

email: bladrac@tc2.mhs.compuserve.com

Thanks in advance for your time. 




From WICKEL@delphi.com  Wed Aug 24 17:22:04 1994
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From WICKEL@delphi.com  Wed Aug 24 17:36:52 1994
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From atiah@jolt.mpx.com.au  Thu Aug 25 03:22:04 1994
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From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Aug 25 18:35:46 1994
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From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Subject: Announcing the first release of AVRIL!
To: rend386-announce-outgoing@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 16:32:28 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


After a delay of several months, the first official release of AVRIL is
now available.

AVRIL is A Virtual Reality Interface Library, a collection of routines
for doing polygon graphics, reading a variety of input devices, and other
activities related to VR.  It is a successor to REND386.

AVRIL requires at least a 386 and a VGA card, and provides support for the
following input devices:

      keypad arrows
      mouse
      joystick
      Logitech Cyberman
      Logitech Red Baron ultrasonic tracker
      Global Devices Controller
      Spatial Systems Spaceball

To develop applications with AVRIL, you currently need Borland C 3.1;
however, support for other compilers (and other platforms) is coming soon.
Yes, there will be a port to Linux, probably some time in the next
few months.

There have been some changes since the pre-release back in April, and
the documentation has almost doubled in size.  If you've already
developed some applications using AVRIL, check out the revision history
in Appendix A for a quick summary of the changes.

AVRIL is available on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/avril directory
(the filename is avril10.zip).  Our site is now connected to the net
with a T1 line, so you should notice much better transfer rates.
Remember to transfer .zip files in binary mode, both when using ftp and
when downloading to your system.

Have fun using AVRIL!


From damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU  Thu Aug 25 19:24:19 1994
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Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 09:15:32 +1000 (EST)
From: Darren Anthony Mason <damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU>
Subject: Sega glasses
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I don't have the FAQ at the moment and I've
only got limited time on the net this morning.

Anyway just aquired a pair of Sega 3D glasses and was looking at the
circuits as per described in the book virtual reality creations.

One diagram shows the parallel port with three connection (D3,D4 and GND).

On the diagram showing the interface to the sega interface module I can
only see where D3 connects. Is there a need to connect the D4 to somewhere?

For those without the book D3 is pin 4 and D4 is pin 5.

Any help appreciated

Darren Mason
damason@socs.uts.edu.au




From wey@lsi.usp.br  Fri Aug 26 09:21:35 1994
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Date: Fri, 26 Aug 94 10:11:59 EST
From: wey@lsi.usp.br  (Jose Daniel Ramos Wey)
Message-Id: <9408261311.AA27635@ofelia.lsi.usp.br>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Sega glasses

> From damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU Fri Aug 26 04:47:03 1994
> Reply-To: <damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU>
> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 09:15:32 +1000 (EST)
> From: Darren Anthony Mason <damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Sega glasses
> To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> 
> Content-Length: 599
> 
> Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I don't have the FAQ at the moment and I've
> only got limited time on the net this morning.
> 
> Anyway just aquired a pair of Sega 3D glasses and was looking at the
> circuits as per described in the book virtual reality creations.
> 
> One diagram shows the parallel port with three connection (D3,D4 and GND).
> 
> On the diagram showing the interface to the sega interface module I can
> only see where D3 connects. Is there a need to connect the D4 to somewhere?
> 
> For those without the book D3 is pin 4 and D4 is pin 5.
> 
> Any help appreciated
> 
> Darren Mason
> damason@socs.uts.edu.au
> 
> 
> 
> 

I used another source for the SEGA code: the Virtual Reality Creations' circuit
isn't very clear. I used the circuit from another book. I have a copy in ASCII 
format, included in this e-mail. This description was written by Frank (?),
and I found it ocasionally one day playing around with Internet...
This circuit uses a 2n2222 transistor, that's not included in the circuit on the
VRC book. It only has the conection to the Serial port (RS 232).

Jose Daniel Wey
wey@lsi.usp.br


--------------------------CUT HERE------------------------------------


Circuit to connect SEGA 3D glasses to RS-232 port.
--------------------------------------------------

       RS-232
     DB25 / DB9
                                                   10K
RTS   4      7  Switching signal +/- 10V  --------vvvvv--+
                                                         |
                                                         |
GND   7      5  Ground ----+-------------+--+---------+--|----+
                           |             |  |         |  |    |
                           |             |  +-|>|--+  |  |    |
                           +--|>|--+    ---        |  |  |    |  Transistor
                                   |    ---  22 uF |  |  |    |   2N2222
                                   |     |         |  |  |  +-+---------+
                                   |     |         |  |  |  | Emitter   |
                                   |     |         |  |  |  |           |
DTR  20      4  Vdd +10V --|>|-----+-----+         +--|--+--+ Base      |
                                         |            |     |           |
                              +--+--+--+-+-vvvvv---+--|-----+ Collector |
                              |  |  |  |    10K    |  |     |           |
                              |  |  |  |           |  |     +-----------+
                      +-------+--+--+--+-----------+--+--+
                      |       1  9  13 14          5  7  |
                      |                                  |
                      |   RCA CD 4030 Quad XOR gate      |
                      |                                  |
                      | 2 11  12       3  6  8   10   4  |
                      +-+--+---+-------+--+--+----+---+--+
                        |  |   |       |  |  |    |   |
                        +--+   |       +--+--+    |   +--- Outside of jack
                           |   |             |    |
                           |   +-vvvvv-+     |    +------- Middle of jack
                           |      22K  |     |
                           |           |     +------------ Centre of jack
                           +-vvvvv-----+     |
                              22K      |     |
                                      ---    |
                              .01 uF  ---    |
                                       |     |
                                       +-----+

Diode:     --|>|--

Resistor:  --vvvvv--

Capacitor:   |
            ---
            ---
             |

This is my best attempt at a rendition of the circuit which connects my
SEGA glasses to my AT. I didn't design the circuit -- I'm a software
rather than hardware person. In fact I barely understand it -- as far as
I can tell, the .01uF capacitor & the 22K resistors act as a delay. The
outputs of the XOR gates feed back into their own inputs, thus producing
an oscillator. The "jack" mentioned in the diagram is the mini-jack
which is connected as standard to the glasses. "Centre", "middle", and
"outside" relate to the external connections, looking at the thing
end-on.

Disclaimer: The circuit diagram above may be entirely wrong. My
description may be wrong.

Caveat emptor... to paraphrase the standard software licence agreement:
It's as good as I can get it. If it doesn't work or blows up your
computer or your glasses and blinds you for life, I'll give you back all
the money you paid me.

Good Luck...    Frank.

From GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA  Sun Aug 28 15:47:10 1994
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+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| COOL V                    | SENDING MY DATA OUT TO ALL THE NATIONS           |
| GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA | LIKE MA BELL, I'VE GOT THE ILL COMMUNICATIONS    |
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

From GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA  Sun Aug 28 15:55:47 1994
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+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| COOL V                    | SENDING MY DATA OUT TO ALL THE NATIONS           |
| GEN5205@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA | LIKE MA BELL, I'VE GOT THE ILL COMMUNICATIONS    |
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------+

From don@math.unb.ca  Mon Aug 29 09:13:35 1994
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From JONK@sofus.hiof.no  Tue Aug 30 02:35:32 1994
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Dear Listowner

Please remove <helgeu@sofus.hiof.no> from the list. This mail-address is no 
longer valid at this site.

Thank you

Regards
Jon Kalnes



To:            Postmaster
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Subject:       Delivery failure

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reason - 'User <helgeu@sofus.hiof.no> not known at this site.'
---
$$<wey@lsi.usp.br>
<helgeu@sofus.hiof.no>

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Date: Fri, 26 Aug 94 10:11:59 EST
From: wey@lsi.usp.br (Jose Daniel Ramos Wey)
Message-Id: <9408261311.AA27635@ofelia.lsi.usp.br>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Sega glasses

> From damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU Fri Aug 26 04:47:03 1994
> Reply-To: <damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU>
> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 09:15:32 +1000 (EST)
> From: Darren Anthony Mason <damason@socs.uts.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Sega glasses
> To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> 
> Content-Length: 599
> 
> Sorry if this is a FAQ, but I don't have the FAQ at the moment and I've
> only got limited time on the net this morning.
> 
> Anyway just aquired a pair of Sega 3D glasses and was looking at the
> circuits as per described in the book virtual reality creations.
> 
> One diagram shows the parallel port with three connection (D3,D4 and GND).
> 
> On the diagram showing the interface to the sega interface module I can
> only see where D3 connects. Is there a need to connect the D4 to somewhere?
> 
> For those without the book D3 is pin 4 and D4 is pin 5.
> 
> Any help appreciated
> 
> Darren Mason
> damason@socs.uts.edu.au
> 
> 
> 
> 

I used another source for the SEGA code: the Virtual Reality Creations' circuit
isn't very clear. I used the circuit from another book. I have a copy in ASCII 
format, included in this e-mail. This description was written by Frank (?),
and I found it ocasionally one day playing around with Internet...
This circuit uses a 2n2222 transistor, that's not included in the circuit on the
VRC book. It only has the conection to the Serial port (RS 232).

Jose Daniel Wey
wey@lsi.usp.br


--------------------------CUT HERE------------------------------------


Circuit to connect SEGA 3D glasses to RS-232 port.
--------------------------------------------------

       RS-232
     DB25 / DB9
                                                   10K
RTS   4      7  Switching signal +/- 10V  --------vvvvv--+
                                                         |
                                                         |
GND   7      5  Ground ----+-------------+--+---------+--|----+
                           |             |  |         |  |    |
                           |             |  +-|>|--+  |  |    |
                           +--|>|--+    ---        |  |  |    |  Transistor
                                   |    ---  22 uF |  |  |    |   2N2222
                                   |     |         |  |  |  +-+---------+
                                   |     |         |  |  |  | Emitter   |
                                   |     |         |  |  |  |           |
DTR  20      4  Vdd +10V --|>|-----+-----+         +--|--+--+ Base      |
                                         |            |     |           |
                              +--+--+--+-+-vvvvv---+--|-----+ Collector |
                              |  |  |  |    10K    |  |     |           |
                              |  |  |  |           |  |     +-----------+
                      +-------+--+--+--+-----------+--+--+
                      |       1  9  13 14          5  7  |
                      |                                  |
                      |   RCA CD 4030 Quad XOR gate      |
                      |                                  |
                      | 2 11  12       3  6  8   10   4  |
                      +-+--+---+-------+--+--+----+---+--+
                        |  |   |       |  |  |    |   |
                        +--+   |       +--+--+    |   +--- Outside of jack
                           |   |             |    |
                           |   +-vvvvv-+     |    +------- Middle of jack
                           |      22K  |     |
                           |           |     +------------ Centre of jack
                           +-vvvvv-----+     |
                              22K      |     |
                                      ---    |
                              .01 uF  ---    |
                                       |     |
                                       +-----+

Diode:     --|>|--

Resistor:  --vvvvv--

Capacitor:   |
            ---
            ---
             |

This is my best attempt at a rendition of the circuit which connects my
SEGA glasses to my AT. I didn't design the circuit -- I'm a software
rather than hardware person. In fact I barely understand it -- as far as
I can tell, the .01uF capacitor & the 22K resistors act as a delay. The
outputs of the XOR gates feed back into their own inputs, thus producing
an oscillator. The "jack" mentioned in the diagram is the mini-jack
which is connected as standard to the glasses. "Centre", "middle", and
"outside" relate to the external connections, looking at the thing
end-on.

Disclaimer: The circuit diagram above may be entirely wrong. My
description may be wrong.

Caveat emptor... to paraphrase the standard software licence agreement:
It's as good as I can get it. If it doesn't work or blows up your
computer or your glasses and blinds you for life, I'll give you back all
the money you paid me.

Good Luck...    Frank.

From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Aug 31 10:03:01 1994
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From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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Subject: *.plg creation (fwd)
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 10:04:10 EDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

> From cybercom@panix.com Thu Aug 18 22:42:17 1994
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 22:30:16 -0400 (EDT)
> From: William Meredith <cybercom@panix.com>
> Subject: *.plg creation
> To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> 
> There has been a recent question regarding *.plg generators for creating 
> objects for use with REND386. Because I thought this might be of general 
> interest, I am posting to the group instead of answering the individual 
> specifically.
> 	Although there are a few different ways that operate successfully
> to cut creation time, they require either expensive software or patience. 

...until now.  A special version of the NorthCAD-3D modeller is included
with the book "Playing God: Creating Virtual Worlds", which should be on
the shelves this week or next.  Also includes *lots* of other programs
for creating objects, etc etc.


From chayres@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us  Wed Aug 31 16:12:14 1994
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                                   FLIN
                   ***************************************
                   *!One seed of faith in the human race!*
                   ***************************************



From chayres@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us  Wed Aug 31 16:13:07 1994
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                                   FLIN
                   ***************************************
                   *!One seed of faith in the human race!*
                   ***************************************



From GROBBINS@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au  Wed Aug 31 20:23:27 1994
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To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: "Graham Robbins"  <GROBBINS@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au>
Organization: Edith Cowan University
Date:         1 Sep 94 07:51:38 +0800
Subject:      "playing God etc
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Bernie,
        In reference to the recent posting about the book "Playing
God.....". To allow for us guys in the back end of everywhere, could
you post the publisher details so we can order it.
Thanks
GRGraham Robbins
Edith Cowan University
(139.230.96.25)























































From broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Sep  1 09:33:42 1994
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Subject: "playing God etc (fwd)
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> From GROBBINS@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au Wed Aug 31 20:38:09 1994
> To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
> From: "Graham Robbins"  <GROBBINS@platypus.cs.cowan.edu.au>
> Subject:      "playing God etc
> 
> Bernie,
>         In reference to the recent posting about the book "Playing
> God.....". To allow for us guys in the back end of everywhere, could
> you post the publisher details so we can order it.

Sure.  The publisher is:

   Waite Group Press
   200 Tamal Plaza
   Corte Madera
   California
   94925

   (415) 924-2575

However, it should be available in bookstores and things very soon...


-- 
	Bernie Roehl
        University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
	Mail: broehl@UWaterloo.ca
	Voice:  (519) 888-4567 x 2607 [work]

From wgrimes@kludge.flc.com  Sat Sep 10 13:00:15 1994
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Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 09:13:27 +0000
From: <wgrimes@kludge.flc.com>
Subject: VGA high-resolution
To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
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I am looking for drivers or modified code that will run on
a Pentium with VGA at resolution of at least 640*480.  The
frame rate is not particularly important, 20-30 FPS will
be more than adequate.  I hope to use rend386 as a visualization
tool to analyze simulations that I am running which model 
automobiles and tractor/trailers...therefore, I can slow the
required frame rate by simply adjusting the output time increment
accordingly.  Any help would be much appreciated.
Wes


From wjyoung@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu  Tue Oct 11 21:00:21 1994
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From: William Young <wjyoung@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu>
Message-Id: <199410120100.AA29425@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu>
Subject: Floating point Info?
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 21:00:14 -0400 (EDT)
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Hi everyone,
  Can any of you point me to where I can get some info on how
currently available floating-point hardware works?  Specifically, I'm
interested in how Pentium processors handle single and double
precision numbers, and about any Cyrix chips that manipulate
floating-point.  Where can I call to get a master index from Cyrix?
From other companies who make floating-point hardware?

						Thanks,
						Bill Young

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Cracking the [WWII] Italian codes	|		William Young
 was something you did at the pub over	|	wjyoung@vela.acs.oakland.edu
 a beer.  It was both relaxing and	|
 enjoyable..."				| <Sir William the Chocolate Knight>
		Peter Hilton		|
		WW2 British Codebreaker	|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From wjyoung@vela.acs.oakland.edu  Wed Oct 12 15:24:31 1994
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From: William Young <wjyoung@vela.acs.oakland.edu>
Message-Id: <199410121924.PAA00689@saturn.acs.oakland.edu>
Subject: Floating Point Info
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 15:24:20 -0400 (EDT)
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Those of you who got a blank message first time, I have no idea what
happened.  Hopefully this message will work.

Hi everyone,
  Can any of you point me to where I can get some info on how
currently available floating-point hardware works?  Specifically, I'm
interested in how Pentium processors handle single and double
precision numbers, and about any Cyrix chips that manipulate
floating-point.  Where can I call to get a master index from Cyrix?
From other companies who make floating-point hardware?

						Thanks,
						Bill Young

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Cracking the [WWII] Italian codes	|		William Young
 was something you did at the pub over	|	wjyoung@vela.acs.oakland.edu
 a beer.  It was both relaxing and	|
 enjoyable..."				| <Sir William the Chocolate Knight>
		Peter Hilton		|
		WW2 British Codebreaker	|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From MC3732@mclink.it  Fri Oct 14 01:40:55 1994
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From csc4aem@gps.leeds.ac.uk  Sun Oct 16 11:21:06 1994
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From vrman@usa.net  Thu Oct 20 00:32:52 1994
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Subscribe


From laux@neutron.com  Thu Oct 20 07:08:45 1994
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From: laux@neutron.com (Thorsten Laux)
Subject: please delete me from list (or mail me)
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:07:51 +0100 (MET)
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please delete laux@lxki.toppoint.de from the mailing list. if i have
to use another adress to unsubscribe, please mail me.

thanks

          Thorsten Laux, Schuhmacherstr. 27/29, 24103 Kiel, FRG,
             Voice: +49 431 9790471, email:  laux@neutron.com

From m234365@svappl04.mdc.com  Fri Oct 21 06:05:56 1994
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subscribe Ray Stephenson


From 73611.1435@compuserve.com  Sun Oct 23 14:17:16 1994
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From: Marj Bisiar <73611.1435@compuserve.com>
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Put me on the list.  We now have access for our students in the classroom.
Marj Bisiar


From al177144@academ01.mty.itesm.mx  Tue Oct 25 11:35:04 1994
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:34:58 -0600 (CST)
From: CIRO MANUEL RIVERA MANRIQUEZ <al177144@academ01.mty.itesm.mx>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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HI!
I AM STUDING IN MONTEREY TECNOLOGY,  MY MAYOR IS INGINEER IN 
COMPUTER SISTEMS. LAST WEEK I FINISHED OF READ A VERY GOOD BOOK, VIRTUAL 
REALITY, WAS GREAT. IN THE BOOK WAS THIS DIRECTION.
I WANT TO BEGIN MAIL CORRESPONDENCE WITH YOU, BACAUSE I AM VERY 
INTERESTING IN KNOW MORE INFORMATION ABOUT VR.
PLEASE SEND ME TITTLES OF ANOTHER BOOKS, PRICES OF ARTICLES, ETC.
ALL THE INFORMATION.
WITH THE BOOK I AM LEARNING HOW TO BUILD VIRTUAL WORLDS AND HOW ANIMATE 
THEM. THATS COOL.
I HOPE YOU DONT FORGET ME AND CONTINUE WITH THE ELECTRONIC MAIL.

		ATTE.

			CIRO RIVERA MANRIQUEZ


From dapalmer@grail.cba.csuohio.edu  Thu Oct 27 15:36:11 1994
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:31:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: darryl palmer <dapalmer@grail.cba.csuohio.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: SEGA glasses and such
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.90.941027082952.20016A-100000@grail.cba.csuohio.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am currently looking for some SEGA glasses, or some inexpensive HMDs to 
use with rend386.  Does anyone know of any suppliers that carry the SEGA 
glasses still, or any other alternatives that I might be able to use.

Darryl
P.S. By inexpensive, I mean under $500.


From 100256.3157@compuserve.com  Sat Oct 29 13:09:42 1994
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Date: 29 Oct 94 12:59:58 EDT
From: DAVID WARDLE <100256.3157@compuserve.com>
To: Subscribe <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Subscribe & info
Message-Id: <941029165958_100256.3157_BHL72-1@CompuServe.COM>

Please include me on your mailing list. Email    100256.3157@COMPUSERVE.COM.
Please send information of any rend386  user groups  and  sources of updates and
code in the UK.


From 100256.3157@compuserve.com  Sat Oct 29 14:15:51 1994
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From: DAVID WARDLE <100256.3157@compuserve.com>
To: REND386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Subscribe
Message-Id: <941029181140_100256.3157_BHL75-1@CompuServe.COM>

Please include me on your mailing list.  Mail to 100256.3157COMPUSERVE.COM.
Please send any information on rend386 user groups and sources of code and
updates in  the U.K.


From coghj@cbr.cpsg.com.au  Sun Oct 30 22:45:47 1994
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From: "Coghlan, John" <coghj@cbr.cpsg.com.au>
To: rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 13:48:00 PST
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Encoding: 1 TEXT
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From hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca  Mon Oct 31 16:03:30 1994
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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 12:24:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Henderson u <hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject: Lack of msgs
Cc: rend386 <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
In-Reply-To: <2EB565E6@federal.cbr.cpsg.com.au>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Is this mailing list still active or have I been recieving odd messages 
that should go somewhere else?  I thought I had unsubscribed during the 
summer but now I have only recieved 3 subscribe requests in the past 3 
months.
 Anyone know whats going on?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick 'I need a cool sig too' Henderson 	||	A Warm Place,	
hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca			||	Far away,
aka Stormshadow				||      From A Cold Place, ON
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
||	In the quiet moments before the STORM,				  ||
||                           ...a lonely SHADOW stands ready.		  || 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From actuary@ix.netcom.com  Tue Dec 13 05:31:44 1994
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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 02:12:55 -0800
Message-Id: <199412131012.CAA24373@ix.ix.netcom.com>
From: actuary@ix.netcom.com (LIONEL GOLDBERG)
Subject: Court Ordered Liquidation - Computer Memory - CPU's & Dsk Drives
To: rc@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu

Choice Trading Company, Court Appointed Liquidators, have 
been assigned to liquidate the following Multi-Million Dollar 
inventory of computer Memory Chips, CPU's and Hard Disk Drives.  
All items are new and come with applicable manufactures warranty. 
Prices quoted include all state and local taxes plus shipping and 
handling.

Order                                                 Cost
Number   Mfg.       Description                      (EACH)

Memory

1524    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x3     70ns  1 meg  $ 25.00
1525    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x9     70ns  1 meg    25.00
1526    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 4x9     70ns  4 meg   100.00

1527    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x3     60ns  1 meg    26.00
1528    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 1x9     60ns  1 meg    26.00
1529    Toshiba    30 Pin Simms 4x9     60ns  4 meg   106.00

1624    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 512x36  70ns  2  meg   50.00
1625    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 1x36    70ns  4  meg  100.00
1626    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 2x36    70ns  8  meg  200.00
1627    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 4x36    70ns  16 meg  400.00
1628    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 8x36    70ns  32 meg  800.00
                                                    
1624    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 512x36  60ns  2  meg   52.00
1625    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 1x36    60ns  4  meg  104.00
1626    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 2x36    60ns  8  meg  208.00
1627    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 4x36    60ns  16 meg  416.00
1628    Toshiba    72 Pin Simms 8x36    60ns  32 meg  832.00

Memory for the Macintosh

1122    Toshiba    1 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns  1 meg   31.00
1123    Toshiba    2 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns  2 meg   62.00
1124    Toshiba    4 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns  4 meg  109.00

CPU's

1276    Intel      80486 DX/33                        115.00
1277    Intel      80486 DX/50                        188.00
1278    Intel      80486 DX-2/66                      156.00
1279    Intel      80486 DX-4/75                      358.00
1280    Intel      80486 DX-4/100                     498.00
1281    Intel      Pentium 80501-60                   366.00
1282    Intel      Pentium 80501-66                   453.00
1283    Intel      Pentium 80502-90                   558.00

Hard Disk Drives

Seagate Barracuda Drives
1351    Seagate    ST11950N 8ms  3.5" 1.69 GB SCSI    658.00
1352    Seagate    ST12550N 8ms  3.5" 2.1  GB SCSI    899.00
1353    Seagate    ST15150N 8ms  3.5" 4.2  GB SCSI  1,526.00
1354    Seagate    ST31200N 11ms 3.5" 1.05 GB SCSI    538.00
1355    Seagate    ST11900N  9ms 3.5" 1.7  GB SCSI    628.00
1366    Seagate    ST2400A   9ms 3.5" 2.1  GB SCSI    856.00
1367    Seagate    ST15230N  9ms 3.5" 4.29 GB SCSI  1,454.00
1368    Seagate    ST41080N 11ms 5.5" 9.08 GB SCSI  2,848.00

Western Digital
1366    Western    AC2340 12ms  3.5"  340  MB IDE     122.00
1367    Western    AC2420 12ms  3.5"  420  MB IDE     136.00
1368    Western    AC2540 12ms  3.5"  540  MB IDE     160.00
1369    Western    AC2700 12ms  3.5"  731  MB IDE     230.00

Conner
1372    Connor     CFS420A  14ms  3.5"  420  MB  IDE  138.00
1373    Connor     CFA540A  10ms  3.5"  540  MB  IDE  168.00
1374    Connor     CFA1080A 10ms  3.5"  1080 MB  IDE  408.00

ORDERING INFORMATION

To order please use a company order form/letterhead or if for
personal use, use a plain white sheet of paper with your return 
address. List the items desired by order number, the quantity
and total cost.  Send your order with check or money order 
payable to Choice Trading Company to:

Choice Trading Company
Order Processing  Lot #1776
86228 Terminal Annex
Los Angeles, Ca. 90086-0228

Orders are processed on a first come basis.  Adjustments and 
refunds will be made immediately for items that have sold out. 
Please allow 2 to 3 Weeks for shipping.  Due to court ordered 
restrictions we are unable to accept COD, phone or credit card 
orders.  

This public offering is valid through December 30, 1994. Any 
unsold inventories will be auctioned.  For auction information
please send a self addressed stamped enveloped to: 

Choice Trading Company
Lot #1776
202 So. Broadway
Los Angeles, Ca. 90012
(213) 856 6172

If you are unable to use this information, please pass it on to 
someone who may.
 
Lionel M. Goldberg
Actuary



From Tony.Longhurst@dlr.de  Mon Dec 19 04:33:29 1994
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Message-Id: <199412190855.AA81249@dv.op.dlr.de>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994  0953 MET
From: Tony Longhurst <Tony.Longhurst@dlr.de>
To: "REND386" <rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: subscribe

***Message text starts here*******************************************
Would you please subscribe me to the REND386 mailing list.

Tony

From kmayers@name1.ak.net  Wed Dec 21 21:42:54 1994
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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 17:44 AKST
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To: "REND386" <rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
From: kmayers@name1.ak.net (John Blagg)
Subject: subscribe
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

***Message text starts here*******************************************
Would you please subscribe me to the REND386 mailing list.

Tony

                                       
                                        John Blagg
                                        Alaska Information
                                        Technology Library
                                        (907)278-1787  (800)770-1787
                                        jblagg@name1.ak.net
                                        http://www.ak.net/jblagg.html


From eng30273@leonis.nus.sg  Sun Jan  8 21:10:14 1995
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Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:10:25 +0800 (SST)
From: LOO YONG YING <eng30273@leonis.nus.sg>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950109100933.464A-100000@leonis.nus.sg>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Subscribe

From 70733.1750@compuserve.com  Wed Jan 18 23:31:53 1995
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Date: 18 Jan 95 23:29:34 EST
From: Gustav von Roth <70733.1750@compuserve.com>
To: rend <rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-Id: <950119042933_70733.1750_CHK74-2@CompuServe.COM>

unsubscribe


From S304335@pcmail.uni-trier.de  Mon Jan 23 10:18:49 1995
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To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
From: "Kloss, Jrg"  <S304335@pcmail.uni-trier.de>
Organization: University of Trier
Date:         23 Jan 95 16:17:57 MET
Subject:      Internat. VRSIG Meeting at VRW '95
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
Message-Id: <1F715983230@pcmail.uni-trier.de>

  *****************************************************
  *****************************************************
  **** International VR-SIG Meeting at the VRW '95 ****
  *****************************************************
  *****************************************************


Introduction
------------

From the 21st to 23rd of February 1995 Europe's most important
VR event takes place: The Virtual Reality World '95. For the
first time the three famous European VR conferences VR-Forum
(Fraunhofer-Institutes IAO and IPA, Stuttgart, D), VR-Expo
(Mecklermedia, London, UK) and VR-Vienna (IDG conferences &
seminars, Vienna, AUT) are united in Stuttgart, Germany. 
Outstanding researchers and industrials from all over the world
will present their latest developments and concepts at the VRW
'95. In addition there will be hands-on tutorials, an exhibition
of state-of-the-art Hardware and Software and an Experience
Park.

During a talk between Christian Bauer (R2, Austria; jointly
responsible for the VRW '95), Joerg Kloss (VRASP Europe,
Germany) and Kornel Szabo (VR-SIG Switzerland) the idea
originated to initiate an international meeting of VR Special
Interest Groups on the occasion of the VRW '95.

The VR-SIG Meeting will be opened by a short talk of one speaker
of each SIG about their activities, projects, ideas or whatever
they think the best is for describing themselves. After that
session there will be the chance to get together over one or
more glasses of beer (party!!!).
Two target groups will mainly profit from this event: members of
the different SIG's who will get in contact with each other for
exchanging their experiences, and visitors of the VRW '95 and
other VR-interested people who will receive information about
activities and contacts to VR-groups in their countries or local
areas.

We hope that also the other VR-SIG's like the idea of an
international meeting, and we are looking forward to this
exciting and funny experiment!

The date for the VR-SIG Meeting is scheduled for February the
23rd from 7 p.m. to officially 9 p.m. (unofficially open-
ended!). Because this time is right after the currently planed
end of the VRW '95 there won't be any overlaps. The location is
not fixed yet. 
We will send another announcement later, which will include the
definite date and location and probably a rough schedule for the
International VR-SIG Meeting.

In case of difficulties to find a lodging in Stuttgart, we are
providing 'emergency' accomodations to VR-SIG members. Don't
forget your sleeping-bags and inform us as soon as possible if
you are planing to enlist this solution.

Speakers of the VR-SIG's receive free entrance to the VRW '95!
The VR-SIG Meeting is free of charge.

Anyway, VR-SIG's of the world, send us your confirmation and a
short abstract about your scheduled talk (max. 10-15 minutes) as
soon as possible. The more answers we receive till January the
25th the greater are our chances to be an official item on the
agenda of the VRW '95!
In ANY case, please send us information about your VR-SIG (at
least name, location, e-mail, meetings and activities), so we
can give a complete list to all interested people.

Furthermore, we would appreciate if you could forward this
announcement to every other VR-SIG you know about (hopefully
this won't be an avalanche ;-)), so that as much as possible
groups will meet each other in Stuttgart and that the
International VR-SIG Meeting will be a success. 
Wouldn't that be great!?!



Deadlines
---------

For notification of participation and abstracts:

Best:     January, the 25th
Ok:       February, the 1st



Contacts
--------

Information, registration and address for the abstracts 
International VR-SIG Meeting:

     VRASP Europe
     Am Weidengraben 86/C5
     54296 Trier, Germany
     Tel. ++49-(0)651-29653
     E-mail: s304335@pcmail.uni-trier.de


Information VRW '95:

     Virtual Reality World '95
     c/o IDG conferences & seminars
     Rheinstrasse 28
     80803 Muenchen, Germany
     Tel. ++49-(0)89-36086-390
     Fax  ++49-(0)89-36086-274
     E-mail: rld@ipa.fhg.de
     WWW:ftp://ftp:IPA.FhG.de/pub/VIRTUAL-REALITY/WWW/VRW95

From mccollw@seq.oit.osshe.edu  Tue Jan 24 02:17:07 1995
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	id AA25804; Tue, 24 Jan 95 02:17:07 EST
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	id AA07497; Mon, 23 Jan 95 23:14:13 -0800
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 23:14:13 -0800
From: mccollw@seq.oit.osshe.edu (William McColl)
Message-Id: <9501240714.AA07497@seq.oit.osshe.edu>
Apparently-To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca

I would like to be put on your mailing list
THANX
		My E-Mail Address is ---mccollw@seq.oit.osshe.edu

From brianchu@cs.wisc.edu  Tue Jan 24 23:06:50 1995
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From: brianchu@cs.wisc.edu (Chu sing yun)
Message-Id: <9501250406.AA16400@picard.cs.wisc.edu>
Received: by picard.cs.wisc.edu; Tue, 24 Jan 95 22:06:46 -0600
Subject: [still going on?]
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 22:06:44 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL11]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Is this group still going on? Except mail about people adding to the mail list
I receive NOTHING al at.

Thanks
Brian

From wey@lsi.usp.br  Thu Jan 26 15:42:45 1995
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	id AA28719; Thu, 26 Jan 95 18:31:54 EDT
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 18:31:54 EDT
From: wey@lsi.usp.br  (Jose Daniel Ramos Wey)
Message-Id: <9501262031.AA28719@ofelia>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: [still going on?]

The listserv is alive, but I don't know... maybe everybody
stoped to use Rend386 at the same time. Who knows? :-)

The fact is that PCVR is gone, nowadays we can buy a
good HMD (VXF1 or Victormaxx) for for less than US$1000
and the VR tecnology is miles ahead Rend386 (take a look 
at Descent, a new game from Dynamixx with 6 DOF and stunning
textures, avalible at forte.mathematik.uni-bremen.de, in some
directory there, I don't remember).
AVRIL may be a good choice, but it have its own listserv.

This may be some reasons why the Rend386 listserv is so
quiet lately. Any suggestions?

Jose Daniel Ramos Wey
wey@lsi.usp.br

From htrefftz@sigma.eafit.edu.co  Thu Jan 26 21:32:00 1995
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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 08:12:08 +0000 (EDT)
From: Helmuth Trefftz <htrefftz@sigma.eafit.edu.co>
To: Chu sing yun <brianchu@cs.wisc.edu>
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: [still going on?]
In-Reply-To: <9501250406.AA16400@picard.cs.wisc.edu>
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On Tue, 24 Jan 1995, Chu sing yun wrote:

> Is this group still going on? Except mail about people adding to the mail list
> I receive NOTHING al at.
> 
> Thanks
> Brian
> 

Good point,
I have the same question....
Thanks
Helmuth


From JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu  Thu Jan 26 22:28:28 1995
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
From: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Return-Receipt-To: jl2232@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu
Subject: .plg files
Date: 26 Jan 95 22:15:20 EST

I'm cheap and still use Rend386 and Avril. Could some one at least ack 
that they received this msg. My question is does a shareware .n3d file 
to .plg converter exist on the net ? I'm working on a converter but it 
has many bugs, as well as being slow. Is anybody else writing or is writing 

or has written a converter for the Northcad 3d shareware version CAD 
program ?
Thanks.
jl2232@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu
SOMEONE PLEASE ACK I'm sending mail to the proper address for response 
!!

From cybercom@panix.com  Thu Jan 26 22:57:57 1995
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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 22:57:33 -0500 (EST)
From: William Meredith <cybercom@panix.com>
To: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: .plg files
In-Reply-To: <9501270328.AA03809@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
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On Thu, 26 Jan 1995 JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu wrote:

> I'm cheap and still use Rend386 and Avril. Could some one at least ack 
> that they received this msg. My question is does a shareware .n3d file 
> to .plg converter exist on the net ? I'm working on a converter but it 
> has many bugs, as well as being slow. Is anybody else writing or is writing 
> 
> or has written a converter for the Northcad 3d shareware version CAD 
> program ?
> Thanks.
> jl2232@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu
> SOMEONE PLEASE ACK I'm sending mail to the proper address for response 
> !!
> 
Take a look at Bernie Roehl`s "PLAYING GOD." I believe that version of 
NorthCAD outputs *.plg files directly. I don`t have my copy here right 
now so I can`t check it for you, but I think it does.
PS Yes this is a response.
Hope this helps.

Bill Meredith
cybercom@panix.com

HMD

From JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu  Thu Jan 26 23:27:06 1995
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To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
From: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Return-Receipt-To: jl2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Subject: PLG files
Date: 24 Jan 95 21:42:12 EST

I am interested in hearing from anyone who is working on .plg converters. 
I'm presently working on a .n3d to .plg converter( exported files from 
Northcad). I'm having trouble generating proper polygons- after checking 
for cycles in a binary tree of vertices.
Thanks.

From lcopley@crl.com  Thu Jan 26 23:38:54 1995
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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 20:38:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Lane Copley <lcopley@crl.com>
To: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: .plg files
In-Reply-To: <9501270328.AA03809@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
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On Thu, 26 Jan 1995 JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu wrote:

> I'm cheap and still use Rend386 and Avril. Could some one at least ack 
> that they received this msg. My question is does a shareware .n3d file 
> to .plg converter exist on the net ? I'm working on a converter but it 
> has many bugs, as well as being slow. Is anybody else writing or is writing 
> or has written a converter for the Northcad 3d shareware version CAD 
> program ?

Yes.  Don't freak, REND386 isn't being used very much.  That's why this 
list is so quiet.  I can't answer your other questions, though, but I 
believe there _is_ a converter (FTP cdrom.com, check the simtel mirror 
site).  

--
Lane Copley
  Je suis terrarement du tout les produits du lait.
  Deiner Film mit den explitzit insectenschadenfreude sehr interessant war.



From uthur@cad.gatech.edu  Fri Jan 27 01:32:46 1995
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From: Joshua Rand Williams <uthur@cad.gatech.edu>
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Subject: Unsub q?
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
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could someone please tell me the listserv address for this
mailing list.


thank you.

-Rand

From jt10549@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu  Fri Jan 27 02:33:33 1995
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From: Jeffrey W Thompson <jt10549@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu>
Message-Id: <199501270733.AA00926@ehsn12.cen.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [still going on?]
To: wey@lsi.usp.br
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 01:33:06 -0600 (CST)
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9501262031.AA28719@ofelia> from "Jose Daniel Ramos Wey" at Jan 26, 95 05:31:54 pm
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> To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
> Subject: Re: [still going on?]
> 
> The listserv is alive, but I don't know... maybe everybody
> stoped to use Rend386 at the same time. Who knows? :-)
> 
> The fact is that PCVR is gone, nowadays we can buy a
> good HMD (VXF1 or Victormaxx) for for less than US$1000
> and the VR tecnology is miles ahead Rend386 (take a look 
> at Descent, a new game from Dynamixx with 6 DOF and stunning
> textures, avalible at forte.mathematik.uni-bremen.de, in some
> directory there, I don't remember).
> AVRIL may be a good choice, but it have its own listserv.
> 
> This may be some reasons why the Rend386 listserv is so
> quiet lately. Any suggestions?
> 
> Jose Daniel Ramos Wey
> wey@lsi.usp.br
> 
I don't believe it is fair to simply call Descent VR technology. Granted
the game is good, but the graphics engine is very specific and cannot
be used for general VR applications as Rend386 can.  I fully admit
that Parallax (the company that coded the game, based in Champaign-Urbana)
did some really neat things and I am still trying to figure out how they
got 6DOF to work at a reasonable speed.  However, their engine is
simply so specialized for descent/doom like games that it is virtually
useless for anything.  So with that said I would say that Rend386 and
AVRIL I imagine (haven't used it) are  still very useful packages.
Though I use GL and OpenGL as most of my work is done on X-Stations.

Jeff


Jeff Thompson(jwthomp@uiuc.edu)          Member of Alternate Aspects of Reality
http://uxa.cso.uiuc.edu/~jwt55187        Computer Game Design Group
Computer Game Design - Paintball - Ice Hockey - RollerBlade Ramp Skating

From PCRVRJon@aol.com  Fri Jan 27 03:08:36 1995
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From: PCRVRJon@aol.com
Message-Id: <950127030824_463993@aol.com>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: .plg files

lcopley@crl.com (Lane Copley) wrote:

>> Don't freak, REND386 isn't being used very much.   <<

Then what *are* people using?  What else is there for the Garage VR developer
with no budget for expensive packages?

-jon

Jon Neill
Resource Consultant
AOL VR Resource Center
PCRVRJon@aol.com

From rms@tko.vtt.fi  Fri Jan 27 03:25:02 1995
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From jcollier@alexandra.mtl.com  Fri Jan 27 14:50:52 1995
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-- 
John A. Collier					e-mail:	jcollier@mtl.com
MTL Systems, Inc.				voice:	(513) 426-3111
3481 Dayton-Xenia Rd.				fax:	(513) 426-8301
Dayton, OH 45432-2796


From dickerson@isuee1.ee.iastate.edu  Fri Jan 27 16:03:30 1995
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To: @watserv2.uwaterloo.ca:htrefftz@sigma.eafit.edu.co, brianchu@cs.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: [still going on?]
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca

 

     












From poh@maemaster.eng.uci.edu  Fri Jan 27 16:25:25 1995
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From: Li Suan Poh <poh@maemaster.eng.uci.edu>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: VR software
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Has anyone used Dimension's Superscape or VREAM? I need indepth comments 
from a first hand  user. 

I'm a grad student in Robotics doing (at least trying to do) VR 
applications in design and manufacturing. We are in the market with 
limited source of funding to buy VR software that is fairly powerful and 
flexible for me to write my own control and dynamics( Newtonian/Lagrangian
dynamics) code. This software must have the capability of supporting 
increasing complexity (i.e 3rd party applications)of the world I create (so 
that I can finish a Phd with it!).
If you have ANY comments or any suggestions,please e-mail me. 

Also, does anyone know people involved in this area or research?
Thanks so much!

LS


From chayres@freenet.columbus.oh.us  Fri Jan 27 16:44:01 1995
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From thinman@netcom.com  Fri Jan 27 16:58:36 1995
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From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:45:46 PST
In-Reply-To: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
       "PLG files" (Jan 24,  9:42pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu, rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: PLG files

Instead of a this->that converter, is anyone working on an
any->any converter?  I've done something similar with sound
files called SOX.  It's really a very handy tool when someone
sends you a random sound file and you want to play it.  Something
similar for polygonal models that knows how to read and write
all of the common model formats would be a wonderful tool
for VR artists.  

-- 

Lance Norskog
thinman@netcom.com
Artisputtingtogether. Art  s th ow n  aw y.

From daniel@chasque.apc.org  Fri Jan 27 20:19:08 1995
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To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca

unsuscribe


From daniel@chasque.apc.org  Fri Jan 27 20:19:10 1995
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From bgj@ccrma.Stanford.EDU  Fri Jan 27 22:08:11 1995
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From tmcbride@sonata.cc.purdue.edu  Fri Jan 27 23:22:42 1995
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From 72662.410@compuserve.com  Sat Jan 28 01:02:40 1995
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From: Jerry Isdale <72662.410@compuserve.com>
To: <rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Any->Any Converter
Message-Id: <950128060043_72662.410_DHL52-5@CompuServe.COM>

Lance Norskog, thinman@netcom.com, wrote:

> Instead of a this->that converter, is anyone working on an
> any->any converter? 

A long while ago, I posted a geometry library called iegeom (iegeom.zip) to
sunee (and other places). It primarily reads PLG files, but it is extremely
easy to make it read and write many other types of files.  I had developed the
core concepts for some old jobs that required modeling for a variety of tools.
It uses a common, easy to access/modify, data structures internally, and you
just need to walk the lists appropriately to export different formats.

I used to toss out x->y converters with it quite rapidly.

Jerry

From kristian@interlink.no  Sat Jan 28 07:18:58 1995
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Subject: rend386 slow
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Why is rend386 so slow. If you compare it to the Descent or Rise of the 
Triad engine, it's extremely slow. On my 486dx2-50 i get very few frames 
per second.

From amkeerie@pine.shu.ac.uk  Sat Jan 28 10:35:33 1995
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Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 14:25:06 PST
From: Alex Keerie <amkeerie@pine.shu.ac.uk>
Subject: still working
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <ECS9501271406C@pine.shu.ac.uk>
Priority: Normal
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Hi, 

I'am currently using Rend386 for my final year project in England.
I had a little peek at Avril but felt Rend was much easier to get to
grips with first, and I am also using the book virtual creations for guidance.

As for the recent discussion on 3-d engines:-

>I don't believe it is fair to simply call Descent VR technology. Granted
>the game is good, but the graphics engine is very specific and cannot
>be used for general VR applications as Rend386 can.  I fully admit
>that Parallax (the company that coded the game, based in Champaign-Urbana)
>did some really neat things and I am still trying to figure out how they
>got 6DOF to work at a reasonable speed.  However, their engine is
>simply so specialized for descent/doom like games that it is virtually
>useless for anything.  So with that said I would say that Rend386 and
>AVRIL I imagine (haven't used it) are  still very useful packages.
>Though I use GL and OpenGL as most of my work is done on X-Stations.
>
>Jeff
>
>
>Jeff Thompson(jwthomp@uiuc.edu)          Member of Alternate Aspects of Reality
>http://uxa.cso.uiuc.edu/~jwt55187        Computer Game Design Group

I totally agree, as the graphics engines are so specific, I doubt you would be
able to generate a solar system and then interact with it.

Alex




From ongsh@singnet.com.sg  Sat Jan 28 13:08:53 1995
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From: Ong Toon Howe Daryl <ongsh@singnet.com.sg>
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From @garfield.cs.mun.ca:sandy@cs.mun.ca  Sat Jan 28 15:13:36 1995
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----
Mr. Sandy Walsh| I wish that I die peacefully in my sleep like my Dad ...
sandy@cs.mun.ca|    and not screaming hysterically like his passengers.


From dapalmer@grail.cba.csuohio.edu  Sat Jan 28 21:34:01 1995
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Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 21:18:04 -0500 (EST)
From: darryl palmer <dapalmer@grail.cba.csuohio.edu>
To: Kristian Loeseth <kristian@interlink.no>
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: rend386 slow
In-Reply-To: <9501281219.AA24387@henry>
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On Sat, 28 Jan 1995, Kristian Loeseth wrote:

> Why is rend386 so slow. If you compare it to the Descent or Rise of the 
> Triad engine, it's extremely slow. On my 486dx2-50 i get very few frames 
> per second.

There are optimization "tricks" that are used to increase performance of
games, rend386 is a general renderer and it has good performance compared
with other programs in its class.  Look at ACK-3D if you are interested 
in gaming tricks you can use to increase speed in Descent or Doom type of 
games.  I know it is available on Compu$erve in the game programmer's 
forum along with some other neat type of stuff.

Darryl


From erg@world.std.com  Sun Jan 29 05:45:18 1995
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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:04:05 -0500
From: erg@world.std.com (Eben R Gay)
Message-Id: <199501261804.AA00598@world.std.com>
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: NorthCAD for REND386

Does anyone have experience with NorthCAD for making models for 
REND386?

What sort of a modelling enviroment is it.  How easy is it to get models
from NorthCAD to REND386?  What are its limitations?  Would it be appropriate
for elementary kids?

This information is for the Natrona County School System in Wyoming which
is currently using REND386 in v.r. classes.  They are building many of their
objects by hand and would like a better way!

Thanks

Eben Gay

Virtual Reality consultant                  ERG Engineering, Inc.
erg@world.std.com        voice: (508) 460-0529  fax: (508) 229-0830
"With imagination you can achieve virtually anything" - v.r. fortune cookie!

From JoshuaS@aol.com  Sun Jan 29 16:43:12 1995
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From: JoshuaS@aol.com
Message-Id: <950129163707_3944913@aol.com>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: [still going on?]

No, it's not going on at all.  Except for the occasional net-chatter-stuff
which people occasionally ask for (i.e. how to subscribe, etc).  It's because
people are still buying VR Creations, even though it's two years out of date!
:) (It was about 6 mos. when it first came out with respect how to subscribe
to this... :)

I'm suprised that the admin of majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca hasn't deleted
this mail-alias yet! :)

Joshua

Perhaps this could be a secret groupie forum or something? :)

(Like, discuss plans to overthrow the US government.  Good thing it's in
Canada... :)

From hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca  Sun Jan 29 21:15:37 1995
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Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 21:16:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Henderson u <hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject: Re: [still going on?]
Cc: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
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Just the event that someone asked if this was still going on brought out 
a whole series of questions.  That makes the list still worth while if 
you ask me.  
  
 I'd like to know where I can get an object editor without having to buy 
Playing God...money is even more scarce now than when I got Creations!  
Anyone who has found *any* object editor worth while  and that can 
generate .plg 's (or a corresponding converter): I would be very pleased 
to hear from them.

--
Rick Henderson
hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca
Wilfrid Laurier University
"If you give me money, I can excite you.
  The more money you have, the more exciting it 
   can be!"         - Stymie,
                        The Little Rascals



From chayres@freenet.columbus.oh.us  Sun Jan 29 23:25:03 1995
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From: Christopher Ayres <chayres@freenet.columbus.oh.us>
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How the hell do i unsubsribe from this dead end discuss group. :)
Just been trying forever. Please any help needed.

The Jade Sceptre
(====---------->




From kwas@panix.com  Mon Jan 30 00:16:19 1995
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To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca, erg@world.std.com (Eben R Gay)
From: kwas@panix.com (Chris Kwasnicki)
Subject: Re: NorthCAD for REND386

>Does anyone have experience with NorthCAD for making models for 
>REND386?
>
>What sort of a modelling enviroment is it.  How easy is it to get models
>from NorthCAD to REND386?  What are its limitations?  Would it be appropriate
>for elementary kids?

I use NorthCAD to create objects both for Rend386 and WTKWIN.  It works very
well - outputs .DXF files, has a converter for NorthCAD->.PLG files (but not
back).  Haven't run into any limits.

I think kids could handle it.

Chris



Chris Kwasnicki       "Virtual Reality        ______  __     _____
Allinfo Inc.           is an attitude,       / VR  /|  _\   / HMD \
kwas@panix.com         not a technology"    /_____//     # (\_____/
VR developer/author                         |____|/      #  >___/


From pepo@lab-cdi.es  Mon Jan 30 03:22:09 1995
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From Steve=Cox%model=shop%Mat=Hou@bangate.compaq.com  Mon Jan 30 11:55:52 1995
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From denz@studenten.ims.uni-stuttgart.de  Mon Jan 30 12:12:54 1995
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From shawnk@navier.highland.nmhs.edu  Mon Jan 30 16:56:36 1995
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From jwebb@spco.com  Mon Jan 30 17:15:20 1995
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Encoding: 887 Text
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To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: How to Unsubscribe SUCESSFULLY!


I'm sorry to send this to all of you, but as folks seem to be attempting to 
unsubscribe in droves I thought I'd send out what I understand to be the 
way to do it right!

To remove yourself from the REND-386 mailing list, send the following 
command in the body of an email to Majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

unsubscribe rend386-discuss <your address>

for example: unsubscribe rend386-discuss jwebb@spco.com

..and leave the subject blank.

If this doesn't work, please recheck your message for typos - automated 
systems generally can't handle them.

Regards...........Jo

Standard disclaimer:              | "There is a logical explanation for  
The only one responsible for me   |  everything...with the possible
*is* me                           |  exception of Little Jimmy Osmond" 
jwebb@spco.com                    |  Holly - Red Dwarf



   
   
   

From lennox@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jan 30 19:32:41 1995
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Subject: test

...test, mail seems to be backed on watserv2 for this id...
Bruce Lennox

From DUDLA4325@a12t.cc.fredonia.edu  Tue Jan 31 01:58:46 1995
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-- 
John A. Collier					e-mail:	jcollier@mtl.com
MTL Systems, Inc.				voice:	(513) 426-3111
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From JOHNSON_T@COMPSC.Mercer.PeachNet.Edu  Tue Jan 31 21:33:20 1995
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From HEJDA@cslab.felk.cvut.cz  Wed Feb  1 01:05:11 1995
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Organization:  Czech Technical University
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 12:17:02 MET-1DST
Subject: PowerGlove driver for IBM PC
Priority: normal
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 Hi REND386 friends,
 
 I would like to ask you for a help. 
 
 I was trying use your software, and other SW for PowerGlove (from Nintendo).
 I have got this thing as a present without any drivers included. 
 My naive question is:
         do I need any driver for running REND386?
 
 And if yes (I am afraid of), do you know, how to get it?
 
 Thank you and more fun with VR.
 
                                 Petr Hejda
                                 hejda@cslab.felk.cvut.cz
 
 

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From brodri@risc.uia.mx  Thu Feb  2 23:43:25 1995
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From kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca  Fri Feb  3 07:39:27 1995
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From: Kevin Burke <kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca>
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I am really starting to despise all of these "unsubscribe" messages!
It's like rats deserting a sinking ship.......

*************************************************************
*  Kevin Burke               *  E-Mail at:                  *
*  ------------------------  *  kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca     *
*  University College of     *  ---- Other Addresses: ----  *
*  Cape Breton               *  kburke@sparc.uccb.ns.ca     *
*  ------------------------  *  kburke@vrlab.uccb.ns.ca     *
*  Bach. of Computer Science *  kb930221@caper1.uccb.ns.ca  *
*************************************************************



From kwas@panix.com  Fri Feb  3 14:30:27 1995
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To: kburke@eagle.uccb.ns.ca (Kevin Burke)
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> 
> I am really starting to despise all of these "unsubscribe" messages!
> It's like rats deserting a sinking ship.......
> 
> *************************************************************
> *  Kevin Burke               *  E-Mail at:                  *

Well, considering that the captains jumped ship a few months ago... :)

Chris Kwasnicki       "Virtual Reality        ______  __     _____
Allinfo Inc.           is an attitude,       / VR  /|  _\   / HMD \
kwas@panix.com         not a technology"    /_____//     # (\_____/
VR developer/author                         |____|/      #  >___/

From temasek!linuxpub!nebula!wor@gate.csah.com  Sat Feb  4 06:09:11 1995
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Reply-To: "wor yuan long" <wor%nebula@csar.csah.com>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:   sega glasses and pglove



Sorry to bother the list but can somebody kindly provide
me with the lastest manufacturer address of both the sega 
glasses and powerglove with the cost as well.I  need them 
urgently for an incoming project.

THANK YOU!

regards,
wor.
-- 



                    
*-------------------------------------------------*
* E-MAIL : wor%nebula@csah.com                    *
*        : WOR.YUAN.LONG@f516.n600.z6.fidonet.org *
*-------------------------------------------------*
* A hundred men may make an encampment,but it
* takes a woman to make a home! :-)


From DUDLA4325@a12t.cc.fredonia.edu  Sat Feb  4 13:44:37 1995
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Date:         Sat, 4 Feb 1995 12:16 pm EST (17:16:29 UT)
From: "Brian A. Dudla" <DUDLA4325@fredonia.edu>
Organization: State University of New York - College at Fredonia
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject:      help me...
Message-Id: <18636020495121628@FREDONIA>


can anyone tell me how to unsubscribe to this blasted list?
Drop me an em if you do.   Thanks!

From mdrp@swabiman.ernet.in  Tue Feb  7 13:53:38 1995
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subscribe prasad mdr



From pflaging@seas.gwu.edu  Fri Feb 10 00:35:36 1995
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From: Mark Pflaging <pflaging@seas.gwu.edu>
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To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Potomac VRASP Meeting Feb. 17
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                            Potomac VRASP

                 The DC / MD / VA based chapter of the
       Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals

                  Invites you to our February meeting


DATE: Friday, February 17, 1995

TIME: 6:00 - 8:30 PM


The Potomac Chapter of the Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and 
Professionals will hold a meeting on February 17 at O'Boyle Hall (room 
G1) on the Catholic University Campus.  The focus of the meeting will be 
interfacing the low-cost Victor Maxx VR helmet, presented by Mark 
Pflaging.  There will be demonstrations of working VR systems.  Anyone 
interested in Virtual Reality is encouraged to attend!

For more information, call Mark Pflaging (703) 658-1416 or email 
70233.1552@compuserve.com
 
For general VRASP info, contact VRASP @ POB 4139, Highland Park,
NJ  08904, or call (908) 463-VRVR or email kaugust@caip.rutgers.edu

DIRECTIONS:

Catholic University is located in North East DC.  O'Boyle Hall is on 
Harewood Rd near the intersection of Harewood and Taylor Roads.  There 
is a Catholic U. metro stop on the red line of the Metro system that is 
within walking distance of the meeting.  Parking is available on 
Harewood Road or directly in front of O'Boyle.

From the North, take Beltway Exit 28 (New Hampshire Ave., Rt 650) South.  
Proceed South on New Hampshire for about 4 miles, then bear left on 
North Capitol Street (if you reach Missouri Ave or the Rock Creek 
Cemetery, you have gone too far on New Hampshire. Stay in the left lane 
when you enter the district and you won't miss it.)  Proceed south on 
North Capitol for about half a mile, then bear left on Taylor St (near 
the top of a hill).  Make your first right onto Harewood Rd, and O'Boyle 
hall is directly to your left.

From the South, take 395 North, all the way to New York Avenue.  (Once 
you cross the Case Bridge, follow signs for 395 North, taking the first 
right-hand exit, and keeping to the left as you leave the second 
tunnel.)  Turn right on New York Avenue, then take the second right on M 
street, proceed 1.5 blocks and bear left onto North Capitol.  Follow 
North Capitol for about 2 miles, and make a right onto Michigan Ave.  
Harewood Road is the second left-hand turn (you'll see the National 
Shrine of the Immaculate Conception on the corner).  O'Boyle Hall is 
about a half mile on the right, almost to the end of Harewood.



From blincoln@SSESCO.com  Fri Feb 10 00:51:42 1995
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From projet50@gel.ulaval.ca  Fri Feb 10 17:02:10 1995
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Please put my e-mail on the rend386 mailing list.

From FULLERWD@delphi.com  Fri Feb 10 19:00:41 1995
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From lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de  Sat Feb 11 05:05:08 1995
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From: Yueshi <lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de>
Subject: The Futur of the Rend386 Discussion List
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 16:27:14 MEZ
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

I think that it is the time to talk about the futur of this list. While the
Rend386 will not be paied big attentions, we should decide whether the list
should be stopped or be continued by a topic with a bigger spectrum (I suggest
that this list should be used for general free VR on Intel x86 platform).

I would be happy if you would post your opinion to this.

Yueshi Lai
Univ. Bielefeld, Germany
E-mail: lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de

From a2angold@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Feb 12 09:58:31 1995
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From jwthomp@sparc14.cs.uiuc.edu  Sun Feb 12 18:19:57 1995
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From: jwthomp@sparc14.cs.uiuc.edu
Message-Id: <199502122319.AA08706@sparc14.cs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: The Futur of the Rend386 Discussion List
To: lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de (Yueshi)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 17:19:35 -0600 (CST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9502101533.AA24340@hermes.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de> from "Yueshi" at Feb 10, 95 10:27:14 am
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> 
> I think that it is the time to talk about the futur of this list. While the
> Rend386 will not be paied big attentions, we should decide whether the list
> should be stopped or be continued by a topic with a bigger spectrum (I suggest
> that this list should be used for general free VR on Intel x86 platform).
> 
> I would be happy if you would post your opinion to this.
> 
> Yueshi Lai
> Univ. Bielefeld, Germany
> E-mail: lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de
> 
Yueshi,

    I think it is a wonderful idea to expand the scope of this list.
However,  I think it would make the most sense to first dismantle this one
and to start a new one fresh.  My reasoning? Simple.  I know that 
after I post this message I will get roughly 75 returned mail messages
because many people's accounts are no longer in existance or are
bouncing mail back for one reason or another.  I think we should
start fresh with a new list and a new name.  Any one care to set this
up?  

Also,  I do believe there is a vr mailing list (homebrew) in existance.
I will try to find its address and post it here. Perhaps we should move to
there?

I welcome any comments.

Jeff Thompson


Jeff Thompson(jwthomp@uiuc.edu)          Member of Alternate Aspects of Reality
http://uxa.cso.uiuc.edu/~jwt55187        Realization of CyberSpace Project
NCSA Mosaic Tech Support - Paintball - Ice Hockey - RollerBlade Ramp Skating

From IVREA@polito.it  Mon Feb 13 03:19:31 1995
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From pag95r@ecs.southampton.ac.uk  Mon Feb 13 21:49:03 1995
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From ejp@world.std.com  Tue Feb 14 09:18:03 1995
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From: ejp@world.std.com (Eric J Pierce)
Message-Id: <199502141418.AA11828@world.std.com>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Suggestion for change


Here's a suggestion.

Why not become a USENET group.  Some possibilities might be:

	sci.virtual-worlds.garage
	sci.virtual-worlds.free
	sci.virtual-worlds.public
	comp.sys.ibm-pc.vr

There is already a sci.virtual-worlds.apps but that is geared toward 
commercial products.  We could always just INVADE it.  However, I think 
there is a significantly large community (despite recent exodus from
this mailing list) of people that use public-domain vr and we should be able 
to get our own place on USENET if we wanted to.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you don't have news you should be able
to get it emailed to you.  If we migrate, we could broadcast what to do.

My suggestion then is that we find a home for free, multi-platform vr 
efforts on USENET.  I think cross fertilization with any other vr386 like 
work that springs up on Macs, PowerPCs, Unix workstations or whatever would 
be a good thing?

			Thoughts anyone?

						- Eric Pierce
						ejp@world.std.com


From kwas@panix.com  Tue Feb 14 10:32:57 1995
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From: Chris Kwasnicki <kwas@panix.com>
Message-Id: <199502141532.AA29745@panix2.panix.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestion for change
To: ejp@world.std.com (Eric J Pierce)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 10:32:21 -0500 (EST)
Cc: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <199502141418.AA11828@world.std.com> from "Eric J Pierce" at Feb 14, 95 09:18:00 am
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> Here's a suggestion.
> 
> Why not become a USENET group.  Some possibilities might be:
> 
> 	sci.virtual-worlds.garage
> 	sci.virtual-worlds.free
> 	sci.virtual-worlds.public
> 	comp.sys.ibm-pc.vr
> 
> There is already a sci.virtual-worlds.apps but that is geared toward 
> commercial products.  
> We could always just INVADE it.  However, I think 
No you cannot - it is moderated, your proposed use of it is against
it's charter, and most important of all, it no longer exists, having been
dropped due to lack of input (the big boys hold their commercial cards
very close to their chests)

> there is a significantly large community (despite recent exodus from
> this mailing list) of people that use public-domain vr and we should be able 
> to get our own place on USENET if we wanted to.
There are procedures in place to propose such an newsgroup.  But why bother?
sci.virtual-worlds allows for discussion of all levels of VR.  For the
amount of traffic this list got, it's just not woth opening up a new
newsgroup yet.

Besides, there is always alt.uu.virtual-worlds.misc.

> Correct me if I'm wrong but if you don't have news you should be able
> to get it emailed to you.  If we migrate, we could broadcast what to do.
> 
> My suggestion then is that we find a home for free, multi-platform vr 
> efforts on USENET.  I think cross fertilization with any other vr386 like 
> work that springs up on Macs, PowerPCs, Unix workstations or whatever would 
> be a good thing?
> 			Thoughts anyone?
> 
> 						- Eric Pierce
> 						ejp@world.std.com
> 

Chris Kwasnicki       "Virtual Reality        ______  __     _____
Allinfo Inc.           is an attitude,       / VR  /|  _\   / HMD \
kwas@panix.com         not a technology"    /_____//     # (\_____/
VR developer/author                         |____|/      #  >___/

From broehl  Tue Feb 14 15:07:41 1995
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From: broehl (Bernie Roehl)
Message-Id: <9502142007.AA07536@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: The REND386 email list
To: rend386-discuss@sunee
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As many of you know, we've had problems with the REND386 email list.
Here's an outline of what's happening:

I've gone through all my old mail looking for subscribe and unsubscribe
requests for rend386-discuss, and processed them by hand; there are now
just under 500 people remaining on the list.

If you are reading this and no longer wish to be on the list, send mail
to majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca with a single line in the body of the
message (*not* the subject line!) saying:

       unsubscribe rend386-discuss

If the address you send the message from is different from the one that
you first subscribed from, then it'll take a few days to process (since
I have to validate those requests by hand).

I'm sending this message to the list, and I'll process the "bounce"
messages as they come back; this has to be done periodically, since people
lose their net access (e.g. by graduating from university) and forget to
unsubscribe from the lists they're on.  That should eliminate the
20+ bounces people have been reporting, but it'll take a day or two to
complete.

The rend386-discuss list will continue, but you can expect it to be very
low-traffic since neither Dave nor myself are working on REND386 itself
anymore.  The rend386-announce list will not continue, since there won't
be any future announcements related to REND386.

I've set up a list for AVRIL (my new VR library).  Actually, there are two
lists (one for announcements, and one for developers).  To subscribe to them,
send a message to majordomo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca with the following lines in
the body (*not* the subject line):

     subscribe avril-announce
     subscribe avril-developers

A new release of AVRIL is due out in a week or two; the software is
finished, and I'm just working on the documentation.  There'll be support
for the CyberMaxx and Virtual i/o HMDs, stereoscopic viewing, Gouraud
shading and more. 

People interested in low-end VR in general should VR join the "homebrew-vr"
list; send a message containing just the word "help" to:

     homebrew-vr-request@acm.uiuc.edu

and it should send you back more information about itself.

-- 
	Bernie Roehl
        University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
	Mail: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
	Voice:  (519) 888-4567 x 2607 [work]

From lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de  Fri Feb 17 22:54:13 1995
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	(1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA06127; Fri, 17 Feb 95 18:27:46 +0100
From: Yueshi <lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de>
Subject: Current state of "The Futur of the Rend386 Discuss"
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 18:27:46 MEZ
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

I have get many replies of my article "The Futur of Rend386 Discussion".
Thanks!

The current state seems to be so:

	- the discussion of VR must be expanded if we want to be active
	- it is to early to let the list becoming a newsgroup
	- we are perhaps forced to get more user

It would be nice if you could continue this discussion in the interest of the
whole 500 user (counted by Bernie Roehl). I think that it is possible to help
the list if you could write articles about rend386-discuss in the newsgroups.

Newsgroups current has be names in the discussion:

	alt.uu.virtual-worlds.misc
	sci.virtual-worlds.apps		(there is also a sci.virtual-worlds)

I think that there are hopes to keep this list alive

Yueshi Lai
Univ. Bielefeld, Germany
E-mail: lai@tc3.chemie.uni-bielefeld.de



From 70401.30@compuserve.com  Sat Feb 18 16:42:23 1995
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From mirkes@u.washington.edu  Mon Feb 20 17:18:52 1995
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From f_paquette@HQSE.CDST.HYDRO.QC.CA  Wed Mar  1 18:02:45 1995
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From: f_paquette@HQSE.CDST.HYDRO.QC.CA
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <0098CB81.912BB480.15@HQSE.CDST.HYDRO.QC.CA>
Subject: Question.

Is it possible to get a pair of LCD glasses here, in Montreal Canada?
If yes where? Do anybody have a pair somewhere?
Please i wanna know.

Tanks.


   ______________________________________________________
   |                                                    |
   |       ________     __________                      |
   |      /       /|   /         /|  Francois Paquette  |
   |     /   ----- |  /   ---   / /  -----------------  |
   |    /   /|___|/  /   /|/   / /                      |
   |   /   /---     /   / /   / /     f_paquette        |
   |  /       /|   /   ---   / /          @             |
   | /    ---  /  /   ______/ /  hqse.cdst.hydro.qc.ca  |
    /    /|__|/  /   /|_____|/                          |
   /____/ /     /___/ /                                 |
   |    |/      |   |/ _________________________________|
   -----        -----


From rat@nosferatu.nas.nasa.gov  Wed Mar  1 18:18:46 1995
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To: f_paquette@hqse.cdst.hydro.qc.ca
Cc: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Question. 
From: The Terminator rAT <rat@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 15:28:51 -0800
Sender: rat@nas.nasa.gov

You write :
 > Is it possible to get a pair of LCD glasses here, in Montreal Canada?
 > If yes where? Do anybody have a pair somewhere?
 > Please i wanna know.

Send mail to Amy Marr <stereo@well.sf.ca.us>.  She is an official rep for 
StereoGraphics, makers of CrystalEyes LCD glasses.

	-rAT

---
"Toaster: A gift that every member of the family appreciates.
  Automatically burns toast." -- Classified Ad               <rat@nas.nasa.gov>

From MJCGT@aol.com  Fri Mar 10 02:13:30 1995
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From: MJCGT@aol.com
Message-Id: <950309213012_44815390@aol.com>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: question

I was wondering if there was any way to incorporate sounds with the program,
like a virtual keyboard?

From porter@gate.net  Fri Mar 10 07:54:49 1995
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From: porter@gate.net (Todd Porter)
Subject: Re: question
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>I was wondering if there was any way to incorporate sounds with the program,
>like a virtual keyboard?
> 

Would be no problem accept that every sound lib I have tried dies under
rend386, VR386, or AVRIL.  Have no idea why but it chokes it.

Todd
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Porter             2Morrow World Buider              porter@gate.net
Jacksonville            Complete VR ToolKit                       Florida
                     http://www.gate.net/~porter


From dapalmer@grail.cba.csuohio.edu  Fri Mar 10 23:33:06 1995
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:01:31 -0500 (EST)
From: darryl palmer <dapalmer@grail.cba.csuohio.edu>
To: Todd Porter <porter@gate.net>
Cc: MJCGT@aol.com, rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: <199503101254.HAA35734@tequesta.gate.net>
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On Fri, 10 Mar 1995, Todd Porter wrote:

> >I was wondering if there was any way to incorporate sounds with the program,
> >like a virtual keyboard?
> > 
> 
> Would be no problem accept that every sound lib I have tried dies under
> rend386, VR386, or AVRIL.  Have no idea why but it chokes it.

Did anyone try using DigiPak and MidiPak?  I know it worked for me when
I tried to connect something with the Object Glove library, but I haven't
tried it with Rend386 or Avril.

Darryl


From mgallowa@quest.arc.nasa.gov  Sun Mar 12 03:05:55 1995
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From: mgallowa@quest.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Galloway)
Message-Id: <199503120805.AAA09405@quest.arc.nasa.gov>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Shutter Glasses

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what occurs with the lcd's in the sega 
shutter glasses when rend386 is executed without enabling the stereo mode.
In my glasses the right eye closes, unfortunatly I don't know if the glasses
are working correctly.

From zor@email.unc.edu  Mon Mar 13 00:48:52 1995
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From: happy-fun-ball <zor@email.unc.edu>
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To: rend386-discuss <rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: PowerGlove specs
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Hi,

I'm new to this list, so i dunno if anyone has posted this before, but....

Does ANYONE know where i can find the specs for rewiring the Mattel 
PowerGlove (dist. by Nintendo)..?
I've found a book that tells me how to do it for PC's, but i'd like to 
know the signals it sends on each line, so that i could wire it to my 
Amiga, etc... 

Also, i've heard that some has been able to use *TWO* 
PowerGLoves at once with REND386... any info on that?

Thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction ;) \|/
                                                            -?-
                                                            /|\

--Allan


From 73212.35@compuserve.com  Sun Mar 26 07:34:07 1995
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Date: 26 Mar 95 07:33:11 EST
From: Ran Fuchs <73212.35@compuserve.com>
To: REND386 <rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Subscribe
Message-Id: <950326123310_73212.35_DHI30-2@CompuServe.COM>

I have encountered REND386 a few weeks ago, I have a version from 1993 and would
like to know if there are newer versions and if there is any further litruture
about it.

Sincerely
Ran Fuchs


From dkerr@st.elec.uow.edu.au  Tue Apr  4 02:04:31 1995
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From: Damien Kerr <dkerr@st.elec.uow.edu.au>
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Subject: subscribe
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please add me to the subscription list for rend386.

dkerr@elec.uow.edu.au

thanx in advance...

From nunez@parcplace.com  Thu Apr  6 16:10:09 1995
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To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
From: nunez@parcplace.com (mike nunez)
Subject: subscribe

I need the newest version of rend386...how can I get one?

thanks, 
nunez


From mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu  Mon Apr 10 15:41:02 1995
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 12:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill McColl <mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu>
Subject: Re: .plg files
To: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <9501270328.AA03809@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
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I do not know. But does anyone know of a DXF23DS converter. Anyway If 
anyone can tell me if there is a way to use 3D-Studio animations for 
interaction with rend-386...... Is there a new version of REND-386, I 
have version 5..............
			mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu



From cybercom@panix.com  Tue Apr 11 09:19:44 1995
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:19:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Meredith <cybercom@panix.com>
To: Bill McColl <mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu>
Cc: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu, rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: .plg files
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On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Bill McColl wrote:

> I do not know. But does anyone know of a DXF23DS converter. Anyway If 
> anyone can tell me if there is a way to use 3D-Studio animations for 
> interaction with rend-386...... Is there a new version of REND-386, I 
> have version 5..............
> 			mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu
> 
> 
> 
Simply buy Bernie`s book "Playing God." There are various utilities to do 
these types of conversions. Also there is a lot of code from Avril in 
there, with some of the original REND386 code/drivers so it really is 
sorta version 6.
Hope this helps.

Bill Meredith
cybercom@panix.com

Director, Virtual Reality Alliance of Students and Professionals (VRASP)
Executive Vice President, Veterans Bedside Network
Executive Director, Project Viarta - Bronx Veterans Affairs Medical Center
Owner, CyberCom


HMD

From cybercom@panix.com  Tue Apr 11 09:26:27 1995
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:26:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Meredith <cybercom@panix.com>
To: Bill McColl <mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu>
Cc: JL2232@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu, rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: .plg files
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On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Bill McColl wrote:

> I do not know. But does anyone know of a DXF23DS converter. Anyway If 
> anyone can tell me if there is a way to use 3D-Studio animations for 
> interaction with rend-386...... Is there a new version of REND-386, I 
> have version 5..............
> 			mccollb@seq.oit.osshe.edu
> 
> 
> 
Oh yes, I don`t know of any way to use the 3ds animations in Rend because 
they are simply a series of keyframes that are pre-rendered and then sent 
out as a fli or tga format. REND386 is rendering each frame in real time 
and uses an internal loop to create or play an animation at each state of 
rendering. Again, I would refer you to Playing God for more details. 
HTH

Bill Meredith
cybercom@panix.com

etc


HMD

From oliver@pipeline.com  Mon Apr 24 11:44:16 1995
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From: Stanley Wolfson <oliver@pipeline.com>
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Message-Id: <199504241543.LAA08712@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: wanted

wanted spark 10 any configuration and sun memory for spark 10's & 20's

From jgb83@uow.edu.au  Wed May  3 03:11:49 1995
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From: Glen Justin Balmer <jgb83@uow.edu.au>
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Message-Id: <199505030711.RAA08531@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au>
Subject: Driver software and object connection
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:11:26 +1000 (EST)
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I have written a .wld file that has a column and a sphere in it.

The problem is, how to I move the sphere in relation to data coming in
from a real-world object.

I'll explain it further.

I have a transmitter-receiver setup connected to a PC via a serial-port
interface.
As the transmitter moves around, the receiver converts the movement to an
angle, which the PC turns into an X/Y/Z location.
This PC sends the info over a network via WATTCP software.
A. I need to write a 6D driver to take the data from the network so
it is available to the rend386 software.
B. Now that the rend386 software has the data, how do I get the sphere
to move in relation to the changing data, IE, attaching the movement
of the sphere to the movement of the transmitter.

Thanx in advance
Bye
Glen Balmer

From sdw@lig.net  Wed May  3 11:31:47 1995
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From: sdw@lig.net (Stephen D. Williams)
Subject: Webspace, VRML, and Rend386
To: jgb83@uow.edu.au (Glen Justin Balmer)
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 12:24:00 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <199505030711.RAA08531@wumpus.cc.uow.edu.au> from "Glen Justin Balmer" at May 3, 95 03:11:26 am
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Is anyone working on VRML code?  There is a free parser available
and joining it with Rend386 would be great, especially with
the glove interface.

TGS's Webspace commerical VRML browser will be available for
download May 15th, and it will sell for $49.  (Hopefully the demo
terms will be similar to Netscape.)  They are heavily involved
with SGI, somewhat with Netscape.

It looks extremely powerful.  I've seen a demo running on an SGI.

Check out http://www.sgi.com under 3d web.

sdw
-- 
Stephen D. Williams 25Feb1965 VW,OH (FBI ID) sdw@lig.net http://www.lig.net/sdw
Senior Consultant, Vienna,VA Mar95-| 513-865-9599 FAX/LIG 703-406-1491 Wrk
OO R&D AI:NN/ES crypto DBMS RPC/CS |21915 Muirfield Cir.Apt101,Sterling,VA20164
Firewall/WWW srvrs|ICBM/GPS: 39 38 34N 84 17 12W home, 38 54 04N 77 15 56W wrk
Pres.: Concinnous Consulting,Inc.;SDW Systems;Local Internet Gateway Co.;24Apr95

From porter@gate.net  Wed May  3 12:32:56 1995
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Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 12:32:48 -0400
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To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
From: porter@gate.net (Todd Porter)
Subject: Re: Webspace, VRML, and Rend386
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>Is anyone working on VRML code?  There is a free parser available
>and joining it with Rend386 would be great, especially with
>the glove interface.

I have created a WWW viewer to view .WLD files created with VR386, AVRIL, 
REND386, 2Morrow, etc...

Its not HTML but much faster anyway.  Check my page - 
http://www.gate.net/~porter - look near the bottom.

I'm not sure If I will do a vrml version or not - I don't think it will be
very fast on a general PC SLIP connection and users will not like it.  If
this turns out to be wrong I will create a Windows VRML version that will
read/convert .WLD files.

Todd Porter
2Morrow Incorporated
http://www.gate.net/~porter


From bogstad@calshp.cals.wisc.edu  Wed May  3 16:11:36 1995
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To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca

>>>***********************************************<<<
>>>********   PLEASE FORWARD AND POST     ********<<<
>>>********                               ********<<<
>>>***********************************************<<<

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
	    VIRTUAL HUMAN BODY
A CU-SeeMe, Internet-Based Performance
of the Human Body --QQ> Technogy
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


LIVE VIDEO / AUDIO AVAILABLE OVER THE INTERNET!

************************************************
***********  A 24-HOUR PERFORMANCE:  ***********
************************************************
STARTING:  Wednesday, May 17, 1995 @12:00 am (CST)
ENDING:    Wednesday, May 17, 1995 @11:59 pm (CST)

on the EDEN MATRIX Reflector: 199.171.21.8
available using CU-SEEME Internet teleconferencing software.

for more information about this performance, try the 
performance Homepage:   http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~void

 other queries, send email to:   void@picard.cs.wisc.edu
or call:  608.257.2326


for information about CU-SeeMe, free video/audio Internet
 teleconferencing software, explore the CU-SeeMe Homepage at:
http://cu-seeme.cornell.edu

to download CU-SeeMe software, ftp to:
 CU-SeeMe.cornell.edu/pub/CU-SeeMe


The VIRTUAL HUMAN BODY is a 24-hour live Performance Art event created
and performed exclusively on the Internet. It involves the broadcast of
digital video/audio data over the Internet and can be experienced anywhere
on the planet that supports an Internet connection and can run CU-SeeMe
teleconferencing software.

************ FOR A 24-HOUR DURATION: *****************************
>>>I will broadcast images of by interactions with technologies
>>>I will welcome and accept comment, critique, and discussion via
	email or CU-SeeMe
>>>I will explore, in part, my relationship with technology - past,
	present, future and ponder the role techology might play
	in a society dedicated to technological advancement and innovation   
******************************************************************
This performance will be broadcast on the EDEN MATRIX multiconferencing
reflector site. You can reach the EDEN MATRIX Homepage @ http://www.eden.com/ 


                               ###

From rek2933@decster.uta.edu  Mon May 15 09:37:40 1995
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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 08:40:16 -0500
From: KUHLER RICHARD EVERETT  <rek2933@decster.uta.edu>
Message-Id: <199505151340.IAA22590@decster.uta.edu>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: rend386 update

is the current version of rend386 available on the internet?

richard kuhler
rek2933@decster.uta.edu

From rek2933@decster.uta.edu  Mon May 15 09:36:04 1995
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Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 08:38:39 -0500
From: KUHLER RICHARD EVERETT  <rek2933@decster.uta.edu>
Message-Id: <199505151338.IAA22550@decster.uta.edu>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe

please add me to the rend386 mailing list

richard kuhler
rek2933@decster.uta.edu

From Catherine.Neary@src.bae.co.uk  Thu Jun  1 07:34:05 1995
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To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: CrystalEyes set up



Hello,

I've been using your program Rend386 (and VR386) for a little while
using a pair of Toshiba LCD glasses for stereo presentation

From Catherine.Neary@src.bae.co.uk  Thu Jun  1 08:17:59 1995
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 12:14:58 BST
Message-Id: <9506011114.AA01556@sun22.src.bae.co.uk>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: CrystalEyes set up


Hello,

I've been using your programs (Rend386 and VR386) for a little while now
with a pair of Toshiba LCD glasses for stereo presentation. I want
to upgrade the glasses mainly because of their low contrast ratio and
have been looking at CrystalEyes. Can Rend386 (or VR386) be set up
for running these LCD glasses? They require the mapping of the left
eye view, vertically compressed, to the top half of the screen, and
the right eye view, also vertically compressed, to the bottom half.
The views are then interlaced using hardware provided by Stereographics
Corp.

If this stereo Mode can't be supported by REND386 can you recommend 
any other glasses besides CrystalEyes that I might try?

Thanks very much

yours

Catherine Neary


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Catherine Neary, Sowerby Research Centre, British Aerospace, FPC 267,
PO Box 5, Filton, Bristol, BS12 7QW, England. Voice: 44-272-366536; 
Fax: 44-272-363733; email: neary@src.bae.co.uk

------------------------------------------------------------------------

From drs@sparkplug.scr.siemens.com  Thu Jun  1 08:31:40 1995
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 08:31:41 -0400
From: David Schwanke <drs@scr.siemens.com>
Message-Id: <199506011231.IAA20769@sparkplug.scr.siemens.com>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE drs@scr.siemens.com

UNSUBSCRIBE drs@scr.siemens.com

Sorry if this is to the list and not the server.

Apparently I forgot to unsubscribe this address TWO YEARS AGO 
and when I retook the job at it the subscription kicked in.

Please forward me the correct address if this is incorrect for server
commands. 

Thank you.


From lhlee@dmu.ac.uk  Mon Jun  5 14:52:53 1995
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From: Leong Hin Lee <lhlee@dmu.ac.uk>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Subscribe render386
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subscribe

From HeatherBrn@aol.com  Wed Jun  7 15:24:52 1995
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From: HeatherBrn@aol.com
Message-Id: <950607130551_64258365@aol.com>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: HI!

Hello!!

   Just a friendly greeting to all the others out there who have an interest
in REND386 and computer animation in general. If anyone is out there, just
grunt and I'll know you're still alive.  :)

Heather

From LONGHURST@gsocmail.rm.op.dlr.de  Thu Jun  8 05:32:41 1995
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From: "Tony Longhurst" <Tony.Longhurst@dlr.de>
Organization:  German Space Operations Centre
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Date:          Thu, 8 Jun 1995 11:32:17 +0200
Subject:       Re: HI!
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> Hello!!
> 
>    Just a friendly greeting to all the others out there who have an interest
> in REND386 and computer animation in general. If anyone is out there, just
> grunt and I'll know you're still alive.  :)
> 
> Heather
> 

Heather,

It sounds like you are having a seance. I suppose this list is 
a little low on traffic.

My introduction to REND386 was via the 'Virtual World Creations' or 
something like that, Waite Group book. I must admit despite the some 
what limited graphics capability of Rend386 I was impressed. (These 
books are all 'cover flash' and no content however, apart from the S/W)

I am interested in the latest version of Rend386 and where to get it 
from. I have tried CompuServe but to no avail.

Also, generally, to everybody, what is the scope of this list?
What about other VR products such as Avril, VR386, 2Morrow, Sense8 
Virtual World Toolkit (Windows + NT) etc. Is there another list, user 
group or Forum that people frequent to discuss these products and 
building virtual worlds. 'Rend386' is good name for a VR list, regardless
of product, because it is how a lot of people got there first experience
of VR.

Perhaps we could spice the list up a little.

Tony Longhurst

Tony Longhurst

German Space Operations Centre - Munich

<GUNNER>

From porter@gate.net  Thu Jun  8 07:57:02 1995
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To: "Tony Longhurst" <Tony.Longhurst@dlr.de>,
        rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
From: porter@gate.net (Todd Porter)
Subject: VR Info
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>

>I am interested in the latest version of Rend386 and where to get it 
>from. I have tried CompuServe but to no avail.

Check Cyberforum and DL AVRIL20.zip for the latest.


>What about other VR products such as Avril, VR386, 2Morrow, Sense8 

Well I'm here to represent 2Morrow!  Anyone who wants to be able to view
their .WLD files over the Internet should be sure to check out my page
at http://www.gate.net/~porter  Look near the bottom for the FREE software
to do this.  Its a plug-in for Netscape. 

Let me know what you think.

Todd Porter

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Todd Porter             2Morrow World Buider              porter@gate.net
Jacksonville            Complete VR ToolKit                       Florida
                     http://www.gate.net/~porter


From broehl  Thu Jun  8 09:44:59 1995
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From: broehl (Bernie Roehl)
Message-Id: <9506081344.AA09276@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: HI!
To: rend386-discuss
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:44:57 -0400 (EDT)
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> I am interested in the latest version of Rend386 and where to get it 
> from. I have tried CompuServe but to no avail.

It's available on sunee.uwaterloo.ca, in the pub/rend386 directory.

> Also, generally, to everybody, what is the scope of this list?
> What about other VR products such as Avril, VR386, 2Morrow, Sense8 
> Virtual World Toolkit (Windows + NT) etc.

There's also Jon Blossom's "Gossamer" for the Mac, which uses the same
wld and plg file formats as REND386, AVRIL and VR386.

There'll soon be many more joining the fray; 3DR from Intel,
Reality Lab from Rendermorphics/Microsoft, Quickdraw 3D from Apple, etc etc.
There are also a lot of other rendering engines available; an excellent
summary of them is being kept on the Web, at the following URL:
<http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~ki/engines.html>.

> Is there another list, user 
> group or Forum that people frequent to discuss these products and 
> building virtual worlds.

There are a number of VR-related lists, but very few that discuss
programming issues.

I'm open to expanding the purpose of this list, if that's what people
want; I'll also be cleaning it up to get rid of a lot of the stale
addresses.

> 'Rend386' is good name for a VR list, regardless
> of product, because it is how a lot of people got there first experience
> of VR.

Fine by me.


From hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca  Sun Jun 11 20:16:53 1995
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 20:05:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Henderson u <hend4830@mach1.wlu.ca>
Subject: Re: HI!
To: HeatherBrn@aol.com
Cc: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
In-Reply-To: <950607130551_64258365@aol.com>
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 Well hello to you to Heather!
  I am here grunting hello  (and flipping through the newest WIRED..not 
bad so far).  Are there any good animation shareware animation programs 
out there?  I'm fiddling with REND386 and Avril when I have time but 
haven't gotten into the animation yet, but I cant wait.  Also...any one 
know of a good 3d object editor to produce Rend-usable objects?

  Looking for a good local Internet server...
      Rick

On Wed, 7 Jun 1995 HeatherBrn@aol.com wrote:

> Hello!!
> 
>    Just a friendly greeting to all the others out there who have an interest
> in REND386 and computer animation in general. If anyone is out there, just
> grunt and I'll know you're still alive.  :)
> 
> Heather
> 

From dscw+test@andrew.cmu.edu  Wed Jul  5 15:07:04 1995
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Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 15:03:49 -0400
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Apparently-To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca

Crash Test, please do not reply. 
Dated: 7/5/95 3:05pm EST

From @HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU:David@wishes.to.remain.anonymous.UA  Wed Jul  5 23:50:51 1995
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   with TCP; Wed, 05 Jul 95 23:32:39 EDT
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 21:32:32 -0600
To: avril-developers@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca, netgame@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca,
        old_rend386t@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca,
        rend386-announce@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca,
        rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
From: David@wishes.to.remain.anonymous.UA
Subject: your romance ad in USSR                                                                                                                             Ae T   A aOo U+ (Unverified)


       ##    meet women of the former USSR through romance ads    ##

     Months ago, Olga Kosmina placed my personal ad in several papers of the
former Soviet Union.  Since that time I have received over 40 responses for
the $50 I mailed Olga.  (I believe she paid the newspapers something around 
$35 and kept the rest for her efforts.)
     I have found greater success and savings by placing my own personal 
romance advertisement rather than purchasing addresses through Russian "bride"
catalog companies.
     If you are interested in placing a personal romance ad as I did, contact
Olga.  She has built up a list of most every newspaper and magazine in the 
former Soviet Union and could help direct your ad to certain areas if you 
wish.  She writes, "please say that I place all ad _throughout_ Russia and 
other countries of former Soviet Union, not only Western Russia."
     Olga is 23 years old, has a bachelors in biology and works full-time as a
florist in Kiev.  She speaks, reads and writes English as well as her native 
languages of Russian and Ukrainian.
     I realize that it is a very trusting person who would put $ into an 
envelope and mail to a foreign country.  If you would rather send a letter of 
inquiry first, Olga will respond to your questions.  It takes about 16 days 
for a letter to travel from the USA to Kiev.

Olga Kozmina
Dekabristov Street 5 - 178
Kiev 253121
Ukraine

     I have found that by placing a single bill between two pieces of 
newsprint inside an envelope, the Ukrainian post cannot see through and does 
not bother to tamper.  I have yet to lose a letter sent to Kiev.  I am sorry 
that Olga does not have e-mail because it would make contact with her much 
easier.
     I am posting anonymously because of the inordinate amount of e-mail which
 I would receive -- inquiries as well as flames.

Best Wishes,

David and Olga

     Although Olga has never seen a newsgroup nor heard of "net-etiquette," 
she believes that helping others exceeds the cost of angering those who feel 
the net should not be used in this fashion.
     IHA (I humbly ask) that you not flame the postmaster of this site.

peace. . .


From broehl  Thu Jul 20 12:03:44 1995
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From: broehl (Bernie Roehl)
Message-Id: <9507201603.AA21091@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: New REND386 worlds available
To: rend386-announce-outgoing@sunee
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Length: 665       

A number of people over on AOL have created some worlds for use with
REND386, Jon Neill of the AOL VR Resource Center has been kind enough
to make them available.
 
They can be found on sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386/worlds directory.
There's also a file called wlds.txt there that describes them.
 
Remember to transfer .zip files in binary mode, both when ftp'ing and when
downloading to your PC.
 
Thanks to Jon and all the world-builders on AOL!

-- 
   Bernie Roehl
   University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
   Mail: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca    Voice:  (519) 888-4567 x 2607 [work]
   URL: http://sunee.uwaterloo.ca/~broehl

From @UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU:romance@in.the.former.USSR.ua  Fri Jul 21 09:09:59 1995
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 09:09:58 EDT
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   Thu, 20 Jul 95 19:51:03 PDT
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca, shadows@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca,
        shadows-updates@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca, uwarc-l@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca,
        iug-talk@rmy.emory.edu
From: romance@in.the.former.USSR.ua
Subject: letter from Olga!  =)                                                                                            (Unverified)


     Not to long ago, I posted a message re: meeting women of the former 
soviet union through romance ads.

     In August, Olga will travel to Moscow from her home in Kiev, Ukraine.  
In Moscow, Olga will have a much easier and cost efficient means to place 
your personal romance ad throughout Russia.

Last week I received the following from Olga:

     "I have already sent your ad to the papers in such towns: Moscow, 
St. Petersburg, Vladimir, Kazan.  At nearest future I will send your ad to the
paper in some more 12 towns of Russia, where papers are published.
     Some times (in winter, spring & now) I placed your ad in other papers, 
but they are not most popular paper in Moscow and some large cities of Russia.
     Besides, I am continuing to place your ad in papers of Ukraine.  I 
promise to place your ad in some other papers when I will come to Moscow in 
August.  I am glad that you have received fairly many letters from Russian & 
Ukrainian girls and I think you will received some more ones and will find 
your ideal in my country soon.
     I thank you very much ones more for your kindness & your help.
My best wishes,

Olga"

     This isn't a scam - call it panhandling if you want. . . I sent her $40 
or $50 and I've received over 45 responses.  Unlike placing romance ads in 
the U.S., women from the former USSR respond.  Although one would guess the 
are doing so in the hopes of American citizenship, I haven't found it so.

     Olga lives in Kiev, Ukraine (population 3 million) and will travel to 
Moscow in August to visit her father.  If you were to send a letter this 
week, she would receive it in time.  The population of Moscow is 10 million 
-- (3 times the size of Los Angeles.)

     Feel free to send a letter and ask her your questions.  She will be happy
to respond.

Olga's address:

Ukraine
Kiev 253121
Dekabristov Street 5 - 178
Olga Kozmina

     I am posting anonymously because of the flames and volume of inquiries 
that would result otherwise.  I think those who are truely interested will 
take the time to write.
_____________________________________________________________________________
To: probable flamer
Subject: polite note

     Although Olga has never seen a newsgroup nor heard of "net-etiquette," 
she believes that offering lonely singles the possibility of romance exceeds 
the cost of angering those who feel the net shouldn't be used in this fashion.
     IHA (I humbly ask) that you not flame the postmaster of this site.

peace. . .


From johnstor@nbnet.nb.ca  Thu Jul 27 19:23:59 1995
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From: Rory Johnston <johnstor@nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: StereoGraphics to release cheaper LCD glasses
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:57:28 AST
Message-Id: <9527195728.EC1A>
X-Mailer: CommSet SMTP Ver:01 Rev:0032  
To: rend386-discuss@sunee.uwaterloo.ca

Having just recently joined this mailing list, I am not sure if anyone has
heard this yet, but thought I'd say it anyway.
While looking for a pair of LCD Shutter Glasses from various manufacturers,
in desperation, I contacted Stereographics to ask about their CrystalEyes
system.  Of course, the first thing I wanted to know was the price.  I
can't remember exact figures, but the basic numbers were $500 for the glasses,
$200 for the IR transmitter.  Needless to say, I was shocked.  For that kind
of price, I'd expect the glasses to walk over, hook themselves up, and put 
themselves on my head while singing to me.  I personally can't imagine why
they are so expensive, but I'm sure there is a reason.  
Anyway, the point is, the sales rep. asked what I planned to use the glasses
for, and I responded, home VR. (or something like that).  So, he tells me
that StereoGraphics is, in fact, currently preparing to release a set of
LCD shutter glasses for home use, called "SimulEyes" (sp?).  Aparantly, these
would be using the same basic stuff as the CrystalEyes, but toned down for
the home market in an unspecified way.  (Apparently, the CrystalEyes are
'industrial strength').  My first question, of course, was, "how much?".  
They're supposed to cost $180 upon release, in mid-September.  This is the
date StereoGraphics is shooting for, but if they can't hit it, they
guarantee release before Christmas (of course).  They are supposed to be 
released all across North America.
I guess I'm wondering a couple things:
Has anybody tried the CrystalEyes system?  If so, what is it like?
What do you think of the price?  (Chances are, it will lower after a few
months)
Is the original CrystalEyes system compatible with Rend386?
And finally, although having NOTHING to do with the above questions, this
has plagued me for some time.
Is the a version 6 of Rend386?  If so, where can I get it?  And where are
.WLD and .PLG files distributed?
Any answers are always appreciated (and desperately needed :)!
                               

From LONGHURST@gsocmail.rm.op.dlr.de  Fri Jul 28 04:25:48 1995
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From: "Tony Longhurst" <Tony.Longhurst@dlr.de>
Organization:  German Space Operations Centre
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Date:          Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:29:21 +0200
Subject:       Re: StereoGraphics to release cheaper LCD glasses
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01)
Message-Id: <1485A7627FB@gsocmail.rm.op.dlr.de>

> Is the original CrystalEyes system compatible with Rend386?
> And finally, although having NOTHING to do with the above questions, this
> has plagued me for some time.
> Is the a version 6 of Rend386?  If so, where can I get it?  And where are
> .WLD and .PLG files distributed?
> Any answers are always appreciated (and desperately needed :)!
>
> Rory Johnston 

Based on your message I found a WWW page for stereographics on:
http://infolane.com/infolane/stereog/sgresponse.html.
I am interested in VR for audiences and I notice that they sell 
projection systems so thanks for the idea.

Other information (that you have probably received from Bernie by 
now but here it is anyway) :

New REND386 worlds can be found at sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the 
pub/rend386/worlds directory.

Also an excellent page is the <http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~ki/engines.html>.
which describes a lot (infact nearly all) of the cheaper graphics/VR 
engines.

I am currently trying to determine which is the better product 
OpenGL/Inventor, Render Lab or RenderWare for providing sapcecraft 
visualisation under Windows NT and Visual C++. Does anybody have any 
ideas on this. It looks like with Microsoft acquistion of 
RenderMorphics that RenderLab may well become the standard. It will 
be bundled with Windows 95.

Did anyone try out the CU-SEEME S/W, what's it like?
Information about CU-SeeMe, free video/audio Internet
teleconferencing software, can be found at the CU-SeeMe Homepage at
http://cu-seeme.cornell.edu.

I have yet to try this and I must also try Todd Porter's 2Morrow S/W,
information at http://www.gate.net/~porter. 

By the way I have tried using VR386 with the Fresnel viewer and it 
does not seem to work as well as Rend386 did. Has anybody else had a 
problem with getting the same resolution in stereo colour?


Tony Longhurst


<German Space Operations Centre - Munich>

From dsawdai@engin.umich.edu  Fri Jul 28 11:07:02 1995
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To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: StereoGraphics to release cheaper LCD glasses 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:57:28 EDT."
             <9527195728.EC1A> 
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:06:48 -0400
From: Donald Sawdai <dsawdai@engin.umich.edu>


>They're supposed to cost $180 upon release, in mid-September.  This is the
>date StereoGraphics is shooting for, but if they can't hit it, they
>guarantee release before Christmas (of course).  They are supposed to be 
>released all across North America.

I have not tried them, but the 3D-Max LCD glasses (http://www.ThreeD-MAX.udac.se)
have been shipping for a while, and they sell for $179.  According to their
literature, it comes with an expansion card and works under both DOS and
Windows.  I do know the Descent supports these glasses already, so I imagine that
other software does also...

--
-> The Generic .signature File (tm)                                      <-
-> Name   : Donald Sawdai                                                <-
-> Address: dsawdai@engin.umich.edu                                      <-
-> Quote of the Day: "All work and no pay makes Jack a grad student."    <-

From hanxl@auto1.cims.tsinghua.edu.cn  Tue Aug  1 20:51:01 1995
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:46:19 +0900
From: Han Xiangli <hanxl@auto1.cims.tsinghua.edu.cn>
Message-Id: <199508010746.QAA00895@auto1.cims.tsinghua.edu.cn>
To: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: How to use OpenGL in MFC 


I know how to bind OpenGL in Windows SDK, but how to use the 
OpenGL in MFC of Visual C ++ 2.0, Who can give me a example.

I want try the version 6 of REND386, how can I get it?

From tleung@cebaf.gov  Sun Aug 13 16:29:49 1995
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Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 15:11:14 -0400
From: Tsz Leung <tleung@cebaf.gov>
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: subscribe

SUBSCRIBE

From broehl  Wed Aug 23 20:38:39 1995
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From: broehl (Bernie Roehl)
Message-Id: <9508240038.AA00619@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: ANNOUNCE: WLD2VRML converter
To: avril-announce-outgoing@sunee, rend386-announce-outgoing@sunee
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 20:38:38 -0400 (EDT)
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I've written a converter that reads WLD files (and the PLG and FIG files
that they reference) into VRML.

VRML is the Virtual Reality Modeling Language, an emerging standard for
representing virtual worlds on the Web.

The converter is available for anonymous FTP.  It can be found on
sunee.uwaterloo.ca in the pub/rend386/converters directory; the filename
is "wld2vrml.zip".  Remember to transfer in binary mode, both when
ftp'ing and when downloading to your PC.

For more information about VRML, point your web browser at
http://vrml.wired.com and start looking around.

-- 
   Bernie Roehl
   University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering
   Mail: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca    Voice:  (519) 888-4567 x 2607 [work]
   URL: http://sunee.uwaterloo.ca/~broehl/index.html

From htrefftz@sigma.eafit.edu.co  Sat Sep  9 11:52:46 1995
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Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 10:32:25 +0000 (EDT)
From: Helmuth Trefftz <htrefftz@sigma.eafit.edu.co>
To: broehl@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Cc: rend386-discuss@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: VR in health sciences
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.91.950909103028.13831C@sigma.eafit.edu.co>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Hi there!

SENA (Servicio Nacional de Aprendizaje) is one of the largest educational 
institutions in Colombia.  One of the areas in which SENA educates the 
colombian people is Health Sciences (infirmary, odontology, hospital 
laboratories, ...).  SENA wants to invest on a high-end Virtual Reality 
system to help the students of Health Sciences improve their skills.

We want to contact companies, universities or researchers who work on 
this area.

Please send information including

Name of the institution
Contact person
Internet address
Regular mail address
Phone number
Fax number

to:

htrefftz@sigma.eafit.edu.co

Thanks!

Helmuth Trefftz
Iliana Molina



From @watserv2.uwaterloo.ca:mark@warp9.demon.co.uk  Tue Sep 26 08:22:46 1995
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subscribe mark@warp9.demon.co.uk


From T.Jabing@eee.salford.ac.uk  Wed Oct 11 19:10:03 1995
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Date: 11 Oct 95 11:48
To: REND386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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I'd like to subscribe to your mailing list.
I am a new user to REND386 and would appreciate any information on the subject.
Thank you.


From @watserv2.uwaterloo.ca:NIEGINEJ@academic.fpc.edu  Tue Oct 31 16:42:33 1995
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From: "EDMUND J NIEGINSKI" <NIEGINEJ@academic.fpc.edu>
Organization:  Franklin Pierce College
To: rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 16:30:50 -0500
Subject:       Re: VIRTUAL REALITY EXPERIMENT 
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22
Message-Id: <99D9EF55AD@academic.fpc.edu>

I hope to god this list isn't dead!

I have an experiment that I am just begining to write and I need some 
technical assistance. . .   
I am preforming a ergonomic responce experiment withg VR.  the idea 
is to use a power glove, mouse and joystick to measure a learning 
curve of VR applications.  The idea is to find a program that will 
incorporate a predeterminded trust action which can measure the 
acuracy, speed, and what not of the user.  Now the problem is 
findinbg or adapting a simple program that can use the power glove 
and a joystick/mouse/keyboard for the interfaces.
I hope that I get a few responces form you all. . .If there is 
anyone out there.  If there aren't any users of this list let me 
know, otherwise I look forward to seeing this list come back to life 
once again.
ED FLEMING
FRANKLIN PIERCE COLLEGE

From jlgarcia@uas.uasnet.mx  Sat Nov 11 19:17:09 1995
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From: "Jorge L. Garcia Valenzuela" <jlgarcia@uasnet.mx>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
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sub rend386 Jorge L. Garcia-Valenzuela


From @watserv2.uwaterloo.ca:deimos@iag.net  Sat Nov 25 15:02:49 1995
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From: deimos@iag.net
Subject: Rend Body 
To: rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu
Cc: homebrew-vr@acm.uiuc.edu
X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

Does anyone know how to attach a body to the users view point? The idea would 
be that you could see your virtual self immersed in the wld, similar to the 
powerglove, but it would remain in a fixed position relative to the user 
position. 

   Thanks,
    deimos@iag.net


From @watserv2.uwaterloo.ca:angelini@ifsic.univ-rennes1.fr  Mon Nov 27 03:40:04 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 03:40:02 -0500
From: pierre-antoine angelini -- atelier <angelini@ifsic.univ-rennes1.fr>
Message-Id: <199511270840.JAA11737@mercure.ifsic.univ-rennes1.fr>
To: rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu

unsubscribe rend386 postmaster@ifsic.univ-rennes1.fr

From wiley@turing.cs.stedwards.edu  Mon Nov 27 17:25:58 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 16:25:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Brandon Wiley <wiley@turing.cs.stedwards.edu>
Subject: My work
To: REND386 list <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
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I am attempting to use REND386 to build a client for a Virtual Reality MOO.
Unfortunately, the program got so big with the COM port routines and all,
that it couldn't run in 640k anymore. As I can't afford Wattcom C/C++ or
the Pharlap dos extender or any other compiler/dos extender that will work
for Turbo C/C++, I am attempting to port the whole thing to DJGPP GCC for
DOS. I'm almost done. All I have left to do now is modify it to get rid of
the "interrupt" keyword, which is unsupported by GCC, and port all of the
assembly code. Unfortunately, I have to port from Intel assembly to AT&T
assembly and the GCC assembly (AS) isn't very reliable. So, I was wondering
if there might be anyone out there who would care to help with this project.
So far it's been just me and I've come a good way and will have a site for
this VR MOO by January 1st. It would be nice if the client was ready by then.
The only real work is going to be debugging the ported assembly code, as I
don't really know what most of it is supposed to do. :-)

					Toiling away for MOO-kind,
						Brandon Wiley
						(Cybermage)
					(wiley@turing.cs.stedwards.edu)


From wiley@turing.cs.stedwards.edu  Mon Nov 27 17:45:26 1995
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From: Brandon Wiley <wiley@turing.cs.stedwards.edu>
Subject: body attachment
To: REND386 list <rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca>
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There is indeed a way. There is an example of doing this in the REND386
book Virtual Worlds or something like that. Unfortunately, I lent it to 
someone and don't have it with me at the moment.

There seems to be very little activity on this list. Are there any others 
which I might join?


From sevilla@ucol.mx  Thu Nov 30 14:24:16 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:47:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Jimmy Hendrix <sevilla@ucol.mx>
Subject: Hola!!
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.53.9511301100.A28330@volcan.ucol.mx>


  Hola!!
   
   Vi su articulo (crear una realidad virtual casera) en la revista cdware
multimedia.

  Me interesa un poco de mas informacion y en su defecto los siguientes
archivos!!!:
             rend386 (el executable)
             devices.csg
             *.wld
             ren*.*

 Tengo algo de equipo virtual en mi trabajo!!

  Trabajo en el departamento de digitalizacion de imagenes y multimedia en
el Centro Nacional Editor De Discos Compactos.
en Colima, Mexico.

   Quisiera se me contestara en la brevedad posible!!

  Atte:
        Marco Antonio Aceves Fdez.

From MESSAGE@SAVER  Thu Nov 30 20:06:22 1995
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Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:47:59 -0500
From: Jimmy Hendrix <sevilla@ucol.mx>
Subject: Hola!!
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.53.9511301100.A28330@volcan.ucol.mx>


  Hola!!

   Vi su articulo (crear una realidad virtual casera) en la revista cdware
multimedia.

  Me interesa un poco de mas informacion y en su defecto los siguientes
archivos!!!:
             rend386 (el executable)
             devices.csg
             *.wld
             ren*.*

 Tengo algo de equipo virtual en mi trabajo!!

  Trabajo en el departamento de digitalizacion de imagenes y multimedia en
el Centro Nacional Editor De Discos Compactos.
en Colima, Mexico.

   Quisiera se me contestara en la brevedad posible!!

  Atte:
        Marco Antonio Aceves Fdez.

From sevilla@ucol.mx  Fri Dec  1 14:19:33 1995
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From: Jimmy Hendrix <sevilla@ucol.mx>
Sender: Jimmy Hendrix <sevilla@ucol.mx>
Reply-To: Jimmy Hendrix <sevilla@ucol.mx>
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Message-Id: <Pine.2.4.53.9511301139.B28151@volcan.ucol.mx>

  Hola!!!

   Vi un articulo en una publicacion espaniola llamada cdware multimedia
(crear una realidad virtual casera).

  Y me intereso el articulo!!


 Quisiera que por favor se me diera un poco mas de informacion y en su
defecto se me mandase los siguientes archivos:

    el executable rend386.exe(o com)
    devices.csg
    todos los *.wld
    y ren*.*

   Tengo algo de equipo de realidad virtual en mi trabajo

  Soy de

From @watserv2.uwaterloo.ca:dagardner@csupomona.edu  Sun Dec 10 17:03:57 1995
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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:50:02 -0500
From: DAVID GARDNER <dagardner@csupomona.edu>
To: rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu
Subject: unsubscribe

Date sent: 10-DEC-1995 



unsubscribe dagardner@csupomona.edu

---
David A. Gardner
Email: dagardner@csupomona.edu
Phone: (818) 964-2493

From Acr@Planet.losandes.com.ar  Fri Dec 15 20:30:01 1995
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From: Acr@Planet.losandes.com.ar
To: rend386@sunee.uwaterloo.ca
Date: 15 Dec 1995 22:37:26 -0400
Subject: <none>

I saw an article on the magazine "Cd-Ware" about the program Rend386,
in that magazine it was an explanatin on how to modify the 3d glases of
sega to use on a PC, and I need your program to use the glases.
I'd like you to send us the program by e-mail.. My addess
is:acr@planet.losandes.com.ar.
Yours faithfully
Alberto Caspi

From bhgeum@pearl.cs.pusan.ac.kr  Tue Jan  9 07:48:21 1996
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content-length: 10

subscribe

From deimos@iag.net  Thu Jan 11 00:23:59 1996
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 00:23 EST
From: deimos@iag.net
Subject: VR Programmer positions
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)
content-length: 2982


<---- Begin Included Message ---->
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:05:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Carl Loeffler <cel+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: Carl Loeffler <cel+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Return-Path: <vr-art-request@mailbase.ac.uk>
Subject: VR Programmer positions
To: vr-art@mailbase.ac.uk

SIMLAB POSITIONS AVAILABLE
   
SIMLAB is a research center for networked, virtual environments with
applications in the arts and education, in interactive television and
virtual entertainment, in industry and medicine. It supports research,
education, and creative production and promotes the collaboration of
experts in many areas.
 
SIMLAB at the NASA/Robotics Engineering Consortium is affiliated with
the Department of Art, College of Fine Arts, and the Robotics Institute,
School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University. The founding of
the new center reflects campus-wide initiatives to transform education
by applying advanced communication technology, and to create new
products improving the interaction between people and information. 
 
SIMLAB includes participating faculty and researchers from departments
across Carnegie Mellon, as well as researchers from other consortium
partners. Carnegie Mellon is located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
 
The following positions are immediately available: 
 
SENIOR PROGRAMMER
One year contract basis, full-time, possibility to renew.
 
Requirements:
BS or MS in Computer Science, or a related degree in a technical field
with significant training and work experience as a software engineer.
 
2+ years relevant experience in industry or university based research 
facility.
 
Extensive C++ capability, and all around Silicon Graphics wizard,
extensive knowledge of  UNIX, IRIX, and Performer. Visual Synthesis and
Designers Workbench a plus.  Competence with virtual reality hardware.
 
Excellent oral skills, and able to work as a member of
multi-disciplinary virtual reality research and production team.
 
 
PROGRAMMER
One year contract basis, full or part-time.
 
Requirements:
Computer Science major, or a related technical field with experience as
a software engineer.
 
1+ years relevant experience in industry or university based research 
facility.
 
Extensive C++ capability, familiarity with Silicon Graphics and virtual
reality hardware. Experience with Performer a plus.
 
Excellent oral skills, and able to work as a member of
multi-disciplinary virtual reality research and production team.
 
This is a summary statement of the responsibilities and qualifications
for these positions.
 
Qualified applicants please forward cover letter, resume and complete
reference information as back ground checks will be conducted (NO PHONE
CALLS). Email is acceptable, however all submissions should be in plain
ASCII text. SIMLAB is an equal opportunity employer.
 
Carl Eugene Loeffler
Research Director
SIMLAB
CFA Room 111
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
15213-3890
cel@andrew.cmu.edu
 




<---- End Included Message ---->


From rend386-discuss-owner  Fri Feb  2 13:26:56 1996
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From: bram_keukelaar@pi.net
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Date: Fri,  2 Feb 96 18:47:16 PST
Subject: subscribe rend386 mailing list
To: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc.
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I would like to subscribe me to the rend386 mailing list, if it still exists.
Thanks
Harm
vhs@pop.pi.net



From rend386-discuss-owner  Sat Feb  3 17:28:52 1996
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Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:28:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Henry White <rick@wam.umd.edu>
To: bram_keukelaar@pi.net
cc: rend386@coulomb.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: subscribe rend386 mailing list
In-Reply-To: <Chameleon.4.01.2.960202184904.bas@>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am not interested in rend386.  I have know idea what it is and would 
appriciate it if you would stop sending me mail.

On Fri, 2 Feb 1996 bram_keukelaar@pi.net wrote:

> I would like to subscribe me to the rend386 mailing list, if it still exists.
> Thanks
> Harm
> vhs@pop.pi.net
> 
> 
> 

