Subject: Re: Mig Welders-

From: [email-masked]
Date: 2 Oct 1995 15:25:38 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (ErnieLeim) writes:
> Little Mig welders ?
>
>It seems like I am saying the same thing about 12 times a year .
>Considering how many people have asked the same question about baby mig
>welders , I am surprised that there isn't more about them in the FAQ.
>
>One more time ......
>The Hobart, Lincoln , and Miller machines all run close to $500 for a
>package . 
>I would stay away from the cheesier brands on principle  allthough some
>members of this newsgroup have bought them and been quite satisfied.
>The problem is that the low end compamies tend to have probems with
>waranty repairs and replacment parts. Where as the larger companies have
>certified repair stations all over the country.
>All these machines have similar max output amps and tend to max out on 1/4
>inch plate steel. For thick sections just preheat to above 400 deg F.
>
>Good luck with your choice.

The Chicago Electric systems also have a clever marketing scheme that
uses non-standard wire diameters that may commit you to using their
systems and materials only.  That's probably why their machines are
priced rock-bottom, especially through Harbour Freight.

For those asking Mig theory questions, are you getting enough info
in your operator's manual (When all else fails)?  A good little book
on Mig is ESAB's "Mig Welding Handbook" revised in 1994.  Only $7.50
and evaluation copies FREE for students/educators/advisors to schools,
or whatever.  ESAB was once Union Carbide/Linde.  They may sell a 
small Mig unit too, but I am not familiar with theirs.  ESAB's snail
mail is:  PO Box 100545  Florence, SC  29501-0545  and voice is;
803-669-4411.  (I do not work for them, but use their mechanized stuff).

Jim Campbell
Florence, SC

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From: [email-masked] (Dawson Dean)
Date: 3 Oct 1995 03:08:35 GMT

>inch plate steel. For thick sections just preheat to above 400 deg F.

Does this mean these machines *can* weld 1/4 inch plate, but
not thicker? Is it a good weld? Or does it mean they don't
weld 1/4 inch well? I'm just curious. I was planning to buy
a more expensive machine for 1/4 inch plate and band but if
I can get by with a smaller one, then that would be great.

---

From: [email-masked] (ErnieLeim)
Date: 3 Oct 1995 03:30:06 -0400

>I can get by with a smaller one, then that would be great.

When welding 1/4 inch plate with a baby MIG it is important to V-grind the
joint since penetration is minimal. If you do a multiple pass weld it is
very strong and allows a high degree of control.
I've welded 1/2 inch plate with my Handler, but I V-ground the weld and
preheated the  metal with a torch. The weld was as good as my Betamig 250
could have done.
It is important when welding heavy steel with a baby MIG to give the
machine some time to cool down between passes. These little machines have
very inefficient transormers and tend to get pretty hot  when welding
heavy material. So do several light passes with a pronounced weave. If you
try to do straight stringer welds with no weave, you will get tiny weak
welds. Surface area of the weld pass is very important since penetration
is minimal on heavy plate.
Best of luck 

@---------------------------------------------------------@
                    Ernie Leimkuhler                                      

                  Stagesmith Productions                                  
                                          
                 Custom Metal Fabrication                                 
               
*    ABANA   SCA     AWS    USITT   IATSE local 15, 488   *
                        Renton, WA                                        
   
*"For this was a time when men were REAL men, women were REAL women and
small furry creatures from alpha centauri were REAL small furry creatures
>from  alpha centauri." --- Douglas Adams  *
@---------------------------------------------------------@

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From: [email-masked] (ErnieLeim)
Date: 3 Oct 1995 03:33:11 -0400

Stagesmith Productions                                  
                                          
                 Custom Metal Fabrication

---

From: [email-masked] (Andy Dingley)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 16:54:20 GMT

[email-masked] (ErnieLeim) wrote:

>When welding 1/4 inch plate with a baby MIG 

I just wouldn't do it with a mig. You _can_ do it, but you need to be
a _good_ mig welder, and even then a boiler inspector would look twice
at a multi pass weld like this. It's far from easy to get a weld like
this to have any real strength -- try it, and cut sections of it
afterwards to see what it was really like.

1/4" steel is thick enough to be an easy weld with a stick welder, and
stick welders are cheap (esp. S/H). 

I've done a lot of mig work; 22 gauge steel, aluminium, stainless, but
I wouldn't use it for 1/4" steel.

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul Probus)
Date: 4 Oct 1995 02:10:57 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...
>preheated the  metal with a torch. The weld was as good as my Betamig 250

I agree with everything Ernie said, except that I welded 1/2 plate by 
V-grinding it, but I didn't heat it up first.  I still got excellent 
penetration, I had to cut a small piece off and where I cut it, it looked like 
one solid piece of metal whereas on another piece there was a small, obvious 
gap.  However, if you can afford a larger welder, buy it.  If portability is 
what you want (that's one of the main reasons I bought mine) then buy the 
largest portable MIG welder that the company offers.  For example, Daytona 
sells a Pocket MIG and a Pocket Turbo MIG (slightly larger than the Pocket), I 
went with the Pocket Turbo.  Not sorry I did.  

>is minimal on heavy plate.
Yes, you have to give the welder a break.  In my opinion, if this is a second 
welder, as it is in my case, go ahead and buy the baby MIG.  If this is going 
to be your only welder, then get a bigger one.  I recommend a Lincoln or 
Miller, rather then the Daytona.  Don't get me wrong I like the Daytona, but if 
you need parts, you'd be able to get the parts for a Lincoln or Miller from 
just about any welding supplier, whereas I'd have to get my parts (except the 
wire tips) by mail order.

Paul Probus
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 4 Oct 1995 15:58:06 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Paul Probus) writes:
>>>not thicker? Is it a good weld? 

>>joint since penetration is minimal. 

I recommend a Lincoln or 
>wire tips) by mail order.
Home Depot in SC has a Lincoln SPT125 kit for $550 US with manual, video,
shield.  A good buy for medium duyt Mig.  For thicker plate with heavy 
loads, I would not rely on just visually testing a weld.  For safety with
any process and joint I would get a beginning welding book and do a quick
and dirty break or bend test to prove the design and process.  This is 
more important for hobbyists than professionals for safety reasons.

Watch your eyes...watch your ears...and cover your self...Jim

Jim Campbell
Florence-Darlington Tech
Florence, SC