Subject: Re: The Oxy-acetylene1/7th Rule"??

From: [email-masked](Arthur A. Van Hecke)
Date: 12 May 1996 05:38:40 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (CBear81438)
writes: 
>
>We have laid acetylene bottles down in welding trucks for years.  No
>problem!!!!!!!1  Maybe just lucky!!!!!!!!!
>
Cecil in OK,

What is supposed to happen if you lay an acetelene bottle down?  The
smaller bottles (M is our designation here) are transported laying down
every day.  Personally, I have laid the big bottles down with no ill
effect.  I would not recommend USING an acetelene bottle when it is
laying down.  The chance of the tank pressure pushing some of the
acetone through the gauges and torch is definately there.  We generally
do not use a BIG tank for an hour after moving it from a laying-down to
an upright condition.

--Art

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Drumm)
Date: 12 May 1996 22:25:20 GMT

In message <[email-masked]> -
[email-masked](Arthur A. Van Hecke) writes:
->
->In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (CBear81438)
->writes: 
->>
->>We have laid acetylene bottles down in welding trucks for years.  No
->>problem!!!!!!!1  Maybe just lucky!!!!!!!!!
->>
->Cecil in OK,
->
->What is supposed to happen if you lay an acetelene bottle down?  The
->smaller bottles (M is our designation here) are transported laying down
->every day.  Personally, I have laid the big bottles down with no ill
->effect.  I would not recommend USING an acetelene bottle when it is
->laying down.  The chance of the tank pressure pushing some of the
->acetone through the gauges and torch is definately there.  We generally
->do not use a BIG tank for an hour after moving it from a laying-down to
->an upright condition.
->
->--Art
->

I was told by the local welding supplier that the acetone(which holds the
acetylene) settles out of the foam inside the cylinder when it's laid on it's
side, and this has caused them to _explode_ just by being jostled around(like
in the back of a pickup). They also said that once a acet cylinder has been
laid on it's side, it _must_ be set upright for a time equal to the time it
was laid down before use, ie. if it's sideways for 4 hours, it has to be set
upright for 4 hours before using it. 

[email-masked]
Using Warp/Neologic News/PMMail/iLink2/IAK
Wausau, WI. 44d 58m 00s N x 89d 36m 45s W
All opinions are my own, even if they are wrong!

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From: [email-masked] (Jens)
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 19:43:26 -0700

>upright for 4 hours before using it. 

This seems a perfect example of why you should always collect a range
of opinions and then decide yourself - rather than taking some
'expert's' advise.
I would think that you must have talked to the hired (minimum wage)
bottle shuffler - lot's of brawn and little brain .....
Regards
Jens

PS.: sorry for the abruptness and language but I was knocked over by
the fact that somebody who should know better would come up with this
kind of 'advise'.

---

From: [email-masked](Arthur A. Van Hecke)
Date: 13 May 1996 16:07:44 GMT

>upright for 4 hours before using it. 
Does this apply to the big cylinders only?  Like I said we transport
the M cylinders laying down all the time.  On the big cylinders, the
reason for the kapok or cement in cylinders is to provide more surface
area for the acetone to outgas the acetelene.  It also makes it easier
to fill the cylinders.  If you had the same amount of acetone in an
empty cylinder (if it has acetone it isn't empty) the surface area
would be much less than a Kapok filled cylinder and of course the
gas/liquid interface would be less (in area).  It is this increased
surface area that allows you to draw heavy flow from the cylinder.

Once the acetelene gas in in the acetone, it won't come out until the
vapor (acetelene) pressure is decreased by drawing the acetelene off
the cylinder.  I agree with the down/up wait time for large cylinders,
and we kind of do that.  I am going to check on the danger of laying
down a cylinder as I may be screwing-up in that area.

Thanks,

--Art
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Drumm)
Date: 13 May 1996 23:21:50 GMT

In message <[email-masked]> - [email-masked]
(Jens)Sun, 12 May 1996 19:43:26 -0700 writes:
:->
:->[email-masked] (Peter Drumm) wrote:
:->
:->>I was told by the local welding supplier that the acetone(which holds the
:->>acetylene) settles out of the foam inside the cylinder when it's laid on it's
:->>side, and this has caused them to _explode_ just by being jostled around(like
:->>in the back of a pickup). They also said that once a acet cylinder has been
:->>laid on it's side, it _must_ be set upright for a time equal to the time it
:->>was laid down before use, ie. if it's sideways for 4 hours, it has to be set
:->>upright for 4 hours before using it. 
:->
:->This seems a perfect example of why you should always collect a range
:->of opinions and then decide yourself - rather than taking some
:->'expert's' advise.
:->I would think that you must have talked to the hired (minimum wage)
:->bottle shuffler - lot's of brawn and little brain .....
:->Regards
:->Jens
:->
:->PS.: sorry for the abruptness and language but I was knocked over by
:->the fact that somebody who should know better would come up with this
:->kind of 'advise'.

<also sent via e-mail>
Actually, the person that told me that is the owner/manager of the
business, he's been doing this work for 20+ years, so I tend to
believe him. I also have a very great respect for acetylene, ever
since a torch exploded in my hands(I've also seen a oxygen cylinder
turned into a rocket when the valve got broke off, lot's of
destruction).

You can do whatever you want with your cylinders, but I'm gonna treat
mine with TLC :)

[email-masked]
Using Warp/Neologic News/PMMail/iLink2/WebEx
Wausau, WI. 44d 58m 00s N x 89d 36m 45s W

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From: [email-masked] (Don Clarke)
Date: 14 May 1996 20:21:20 GMT

>upright for 4 hours before using it. 

Tanks I use weigh about 400 pounds and we transport them 
laying down. I've always just stood them up and waited 1 
hour before using them, never had any problem. Supplier said 
"absolute minimum is 30 min when tank warm"

Regards
Don

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From: [email-masked] (Al Amaral - SunSoft PC Desktop Integration)
Date: 16 May 1996 19:25:50 GMT

>of opinions and then decide yourself - rather than taking some

I don't mean to flame you, but in this case your advice on safety issues seems 
equally dubious.

Collect a range of OPINIONS then DECIDE for YOURSELF?  I don't think that
it's wise to listen to ANYONE's __OPINION__ when it comes to whether they
THINK a tank of acetylene is going to blow your backside to kingdom come.
I also don't think that it's wise to DECIDE for YOURSELF...  What if you
DECIDE WRONG!  It's not like the acetylene is going to care what your
decision is...  It's going to do it's thing whether or not you and a hundred
other so called experts have DECIDED otherwise.

How about checking out the FACTS instead.  Call an acetylene manufacturer 
and ask to speak to a REAL expert on the subject.  The manufacturer will
know how to handle acetylene gas properly.

In the mean time it never hurts to err on the side of caution.

--Al Amaral--
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al Amaral				  [email-masked]
"G'day, and welcome to All Things Delta.  If it's not Delta, IT'S CRAP!" 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked](Arthur A. Van Hecke)
Date: 17 May 1996 04:15:48 GMT

>know how to handle acetylene gas properly.
Al, I am not flaming, but there aren't any acetelene "manufacturers";
acetelene gas is generated from calcium carbide and water (usually) in
an acetelene generator.  You really can't ship acetelene around in
anything except bottles, but you're right, call the supplier (like
Airco's main office or Linde) or call the local guy and see who fills
his bottles).

--Art