Subject: Re: Brother of HF; how much to make a corpse

From: Steve Herrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:20:03 -0700

I worked in the HF Alkane plant in richmond Cal. and the safety class we
took talked about the dangers of HF. Hydrofluoric acid becomes more
corrosive when mixed with water. The human body is made of primarliy
water. They kept an ambulance on hand to take any exposed personnel to the
hospital. The ambulance was equiped with a 400 gal water tank to irrigate
the exposed area. The idea here was to dilute as much as possible. I will
never knowingly work with HF without MAJOR safety precautions.

Hrolthgar -   [email-masked]
           Steve Herrick

On 19 Jul 1996, Robert Galloway wrote:

> >HF, however, is an extremely powerful acid.  It is the acid of choice for
> >etching glass, which resists practically all other chemicals.  When
> >splashed on the skin (we're talking about fairly concentrated HF, here)
> >it burns rapidly through the skin, making deep, narrow ulcers, and
> >continues until it hits bone!  When it hits the bones, it causes an
> >exothermic ion-exchange reaction, forming Ca2F (I think the 2 is right),
> >another salt.  The reaction is supposed to actually cause flames if the
> >amount of HF is sufficient!  (This takes a massive burn like an industrial
> >accident.)  Definitely not a pretty thought!
> 
> I think the person who gave the above description was taking a little 
> poetic license.  HF is routinely used to remove ceramic that is bonded to 
> Chrome-cobalt alloys.  Technicians have been known to inadvertantly pick 
> pieces of the alloy out of a HF acid bath with bare fingers.  This is a 
> medical emergency but the fingers don't immediately go up in smoke.  It's 
> said (haven't tried it) that the initial reaction is painless.  The HF 
> penetrates the skin with little overt sign of damage.  The finger tips 
> (if that's all you exposed) are eventually lost as in ergotism or frost bite.
> 
> rhg
> 
>

---

From: Joe Hovel <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 23:09:42 +1000

.....
> > poetic license.  

maybe so, but: 

> >HF is routinely used to remove ceramic that is bonded to

I know an anorganic chemistry lecturer who had that happening to him: a
very small amount of HF on the forearm went through the skin and made
its way to the bone. Ther it caused the MOST EXCRUTIATING PAIN
imaginable - he was treated with massive doses of morphine to stop him
constantly passing out or going insane.... He is still emotionally and
physically scarred from the experience. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME OR ANY
OTHER PLACE!!! 
---------------------------------
Joe Hovel
Senior Lecturer
Centre for Rural Health
Monash University - Bendigo
---------------------------------
http://www.hitech.net.au/~jhovel/

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From: [email-masked] (darylb)
Date: 24 Jul 1996 21:28:53 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,

> Hrolthgar -   [email-masked]

Most acids are carried in glass containers. HF eats glass. I think that
about covers it.

Daryl

-- 
Clouds are high flying fogs.

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul Amaranth)
Date: 25 Jul 1996 13:24:52 GMT

>Most acids are carried in glass containers. HF eats glass. I think that

If you think about it, glass is not really a very good container for
acids.  Ever drop a bottle of conc. niric or sulphuric acid?  Loads
of fun.  It just has the best price/performance point.  It is not
uncommon to find small quantities sold in plastic bottles.  Memory is
getting a little dim here, but I think they use nalgene.

For that matter, you can buy all manner of plastic laboratory ware.

Unfortunately, HF dissolves glass, so you can't use it.  Physical
properties can give you indications about materials, but they're not
the whole story.  The most innocuous appearing material can kill you
quite dead.  But properties can certainly alert you to potentially
hazardous situations, which is where I would place HF.

--
Paul Amaranth  Manager User Services - office: (810) 370 4541 (also voicemail)
               (e-mail)     [email-masked]         
               URL http://www.acs.oakland.edu/~amaranth

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From: [email-masked] (Jon Rolfe)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:27:12 GMT

I lost my fingertips due to worn rubber gloves.  There is no unpleasant 
sensation or other warning till it is too late, and the area darkens 
due to subcutaneous bleeding.  The fluoride ion locks up Ca, and the 
tissues die.
The local hospital was unaware of the antidote, calcium gluconate, 
which if injected into the site in time can save the tissues.

While it does not hurt upon exposure, the recovery does.  A LOT. Much 
more than  motorcycle accident, or other things I have sampled.

Watch out for the stuff.
-- 
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