Subject: In Market for Lathe

From: "Kevin Rhodes, P.E." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:38:11 -0700

I am in the market for a used lathe.  9 or 10 inch swing and 24 to 36 
inch bed length.  My use will be primarily for gunsmithing and 
prototyping of smaller items.  I am in the Cincinnati area.

I have looked at several and nearly fell in love with one.  The lathe in 
question is a South Bend 9 x 36, 1/2 HP motor, loose gears, a fair amount 
of tooling.  Scrape marks are still in evidence on parts of the ways.  It 
looks as though a fair amount of TLC has been spent on this one.  Seems 
like a steal to me at $725, but I have never bought one.  Any help?

I am also planning to go to an auction of an out of business defense 
contractor.  They have several Tongil 9 x 18 geared head toolroom lathes 
and several 9 x16 Feller & KBC precision lathes.  How does a geared head 
toolroom lathe differ from an engine lathe?  Does this mean that the 
gears are not quick change?  IsTongil good stuff?  I haven’t heard of it. 
 How about Feller, KBC?  How does a precision lathe differ from an engine 
lathe?

Assuming that the above are reasonably tight.  What would be a reasonable 
bid for them.  Not all,  but one.  Which would be best for the uses I 
have in mind?

Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

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From: [email-masked](Dave Ficken)
Date: 17 Sep 1996 23:25:34 GMT

>I am in the market for a used lathe.  9 or 10 inch swing and 24 to 36
=
>
>inch bed length.  My use will be primarily for gunsmithing and =
>
>I have looked at several and nearly fell in love with one.  The lathe
in =
>
>question is a South Bend 9 x 36, 1/2 HP motor, loose gears, a fair
amount =
>
>of tooling.  Scrape marks are still in evidence on parts of the ways. 
It =
>
>looks as though a fair amount of TLC has been spent on this one. 
Seems =
>like a steal to me at $725, but I have never bought one.  Any help?
<snip>

Kevin,

 You mention the lathe is a 9" Southbend w/ loose change gears. That
could be either a model B or C. The C model does not have power feeds,
it only has 1/2 nuts for threading. The B model has powerfeeds as well
as 1/2 nuts. A model B will have a clutch and three position feed lever
on the apron in addition to the lever for the 1/2 nuts. The B model is
worth a few hundred more than the C model. These lathes are easy to
upgrade. A model B can be made into a model A by adding a quick change
gear box ($300.00 used) A model C can be converted to a B or an A model
for between $250- 500.00.
 The price seems a bit high- UNLESS the bed is really nice. The bed is
the one thing you can't fix or upgrade cheaply. I recently bought a 9"
model C for a few hundred dollars. The bed was as new. I converted it
to a model A with parts from my collection and had a beautiful,
accurate model A when I was done. The lathe sold immediately for $1500
with almost no tooling. If the bed on this machine is near perfect (it
doesn't sound like it from your description) the lathe is worth the
price. If it has lots of accessories like steady rest, follower rest,
taper attachment, it may still be worth the price. Otherwise, pass it
up.
 You mention gunsmithing. I strongly advise you to consider a machine
with 5C collet capacity. You can get a 1-3/8" OD piece through the
headstock that way. The 9" southbend will accept 3/4" through the
spindle, 1/2" with collets. This may plague you throughout your
gunsmithing career.
 Feel free to check out my website at http://hre.com/meridian to get a
better idea of pricing.
Happy Hunting,
Dave Ficken 
Meridian Machinery " A different kind of Machinery Dealer"

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 18 Sep 1996 00:46:30 GMT

In <[email-masked]>, "Kevin Rhodes, P.E." <[email-masked]> writes:
>I am in the market for a used lathe.  9 or 10 inch swing and 24 to 36 =
>
>I have looked at several and nearly fell in love with one.  The lathe in =
>question is a South Bend 9 x 36, 1/2 HP motor, loose gears, a fair amount =
>of tooling.  Scrape marks are still in evidence on parts of the ways.  It =
>looks as though a fair amount of TLC has been spent on this one.  Seems =

The only advise I could give (other than the already mentioned comment
that you should try to obtain tooling with the machine you buy, because 
that stuff is the *real* expense) is that the 9" SB machines do have
a fairly small spindle hole - about .7 inch if I recall correctly.

I specifically remember this as being troublesome on the 9" that I used
to own - plus the collets used (3C or 3AT) are harder to come by
and more expensive.  

These machines tend to be mostly hobby use - so they are often
in fairly good shape as far as wear on the bed, slides, and feed
screws goes.  But they are less rigid, and will not do larger jobs
the way larger lathes will.

Do you want to pass a 1 inch diameter barrel through the headstock?

The 10" SB lathe will take 5C tooling - this is a real plus, as there
is a lot of it around, used and also new imports which are cheaper
than buying 3C hardinge collets.

As a benchmark, my 9" SB cost me $800 about 10 years ago, and it
came with *boxes* of tooling - but had been clearly been used
in a production environment, and was pretty well beat up.

The 10" SB I traded up to also cost $800, and came with much less
tooling, and was just about as badly beat up - but was a much
more servicable machine once refurbished.

I finally traded in for another SB 10", in excellent condition - unworn
flame hard ways, and newly cometiscized.   cost = 1.6K.  It also had
very little tooling along at that price.  

Hope this gives you more food for thought!
===========================================================

 1959 BMW R50                                           Jim Rozen              
 1969 BMW R60US                                (JRR0 @ watson.ibm.com)                 
 1975 BMW R75/6    (The "new" one)        

===========================================================
Machinery *also* done here...

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From: [email-masked] (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: 17 Sep 1996 17:36:03 GMT

The lathe in =

Take a look at our FrankenLathe page (we're almost ready to paint!):

	http://www.dimebank.com/FrankenLathe.html

This wil give you an idea of what kind of work can be involved in 
rebuilding a "good used" machine (I paid $800, probably too much for a
change gear lathe in this shape).

For $725, I would want to see that the ways are in good shape, get a couple
of chucks, dog plate and tooling and a complete set of change gears, maybe a
steady or follower rest (these seem to be impossible to find used).

Plaza Machinery regularly lists South Bend 9x24 model A (quickchange) for
around $900, including chuck, dog plate, drill chuck and tooling. Rests
and taper attachments are desirable extras.

Get a copy of "Machine Tool Reconditioning" and read the chapter on lathes,
to get an idea of how to test a lathe you're thinking of buying...