Subject: Brazing without acetelene questions

From: [email-masked] (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
Date: 17 May 1996 09:27:39 -0700

I have been wanting to do some brazing for quite an while, and
following the thread on the dangers of acetelene I have decided to try
NOT using it.  I followed up on notes from some of the posters here and
have decided to try to use one of the relatives of propane.

I have a Victor propane Turbo Torch.  A call to Victor confirmed 
that other related gases can be used.  Although it is possible
to do the brazing I want with propane, it takes WAY too long.  More
heat is needed. ( Although not perfect for brazing, this torch is 
GREAT for sweating copper pipe, and cheap to run.  )

Most of my local gas companies had no idea what alternate gases were,
or why anybody would want to use them.  ( And I am not far out of LA --
what do people do on the "sticks"? )  One place explained how MAPP was
a trademark and that similar gases were in common use.  The place said
that "No robotic cutting is done with acetelene any more, it is all
done with kimcane".  (The spelling could be much different, like
"chemkine", or "camcine", the guy was hard to understand.)

I bought a 5 lb propane cylinder and plan to get it filled with this
stuff next week.  My question is, can 1/8" stock be brazed with a Turbo
Torch ( I think the tip is #8, about as big across as my thumb, and
loud enough to require ear plugs ) and MAPP-like gas?  I have aquired a
pile of 1" * 4" channel rolled out of 1/8" sheet stock, and it would
make excellent benches, tables, shelves, etc.  Also, I'd like to be
able to braze some of the stack of nickle-plated 1" square tube I
recently got.  Does anybody out there have practical experience with a
similar setup and similar task?  Just how far can one go?  

-- 
Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@server, x258		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: [email-masked], 714-546-9491x258	 92704       DoD:1097

---

From: [email-masked] (Don Clarke)
Date: 19 May 1996 21:04:34 GMT

>For cutting acetelene lacks the heat content the other 
>gasses and they are far less expensive in gas usage as well 
>as cutting much cleaner. 

Gordon, since that statement is contrary to what I've always 
thought, could you please elaborate on it?  I've been using 
acetylene for 20 years and have never had any problem with 
cutting until I start using it on plates over 4" thick. I 
can't seem to get my speed slow enough when going freehand 
and half the time there is simply no way to run a tracked 
cutter on the piece.

Post some of the gasses / temps that you are basing your 
statements on. I would like to try some of these fuels if I 
like what you post. Price would only be a problem if it's 
more than double acetylene.

Thanks 
Don

---

From: [email-masked] (COUGER GORDON)
Date: 19 May 1996 22:42:04 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>more than double acetylene.
Acetylene is much hotter than propane but does not put out as much
heat as propane. Heat and temperture are not the same thing. 

I too have used Acetylene for cutting but it is more expensive than propane
or mapp. Both propane and MAP leave a cleaner cut than Acetylene. Both of
them make the oxygen go farther than it will with acetylene. I think that
this is due to the chemistry of the flame. 

Acetylene on the other hand is much easier to control and much easier to
light than propane or MAP. It does a much better job brazing than LPG, again
I beleive it is due to the chemestry of the flame. LPG had been almost a 
total failure for weilding steel. Again due to the flame chemistry.

The only place I used LPG over acetylene was in production cutting with a
pattern torch. If I was doing it now I would use a plasma torch. 

On thick steel I think some of the LPG with additives will work much better
on the thick stuff. As I recall in ship yards they cut thick steel with an
oxygen lance. I think it was a peice of steel pipe running pure O2. They made
a puddle on the edge of the sheet and heated the end of the lance and turned
the O2 on and the preheat tourch off. I thing that the lance was consumed
as it cut. It's been a lot of years since I researched this. Maby some one
can help.

Gordon

Gordon Couger Senior Software Specialist
Biosystems & Agricultural Engineering Dept.  Oklahoma State Univ.
114 Ag Hall Stillwater, OK 74075
[email-masked]