Subject: Re: Build a Gatling gun?

From: [email-masked] (Ron Ginger)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:20:05 LOCAL

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Jay McMunn) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Jay McMunn)
>Subject: Build a Gatling gun?
>Date: 19 Sep 96 15:20:06 GMT

>A friend (net denied) is considering ordering a set of plans for a .22rf
>Gatling gun.  There are two in HSM, I think.  Anybody have any input on
>these units?  He thinks it would be a fun winter project, he has a nice
>machine shop and does nice work.

>thanx,

>Jay, North Idaho

I have seen these at the NAMES show a couple times. They are very interesting 
models. and would be a project for a more experinced machinist.

a friend of mine bought the plans, studied them a bit, and found a few 
discrepancies. Nothing that would have made it impossible to build, but need 
to be carefully worked out.

Ron Ginger
my signature is http://www.ultranet.com/~ginger

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From: [email-masked] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:47:01 GMT

>> Jay McMunn writes:

JM> A friend (net denied) is considering ordering a set of plans for a
JM> .22rf Gatling gun.  There are two in HSM, I think.  Anybody have
JM> any input on these units?  He thinks it would be a fun winter
JM> project, he has a nice machine shop and does nice work.

Don't let anyone raise the "machine gun" ruse, a gatling gun is not
one.  However, without a FFL (Federal Firearms License) and one of the
proper class for *manufacturing* it is illegal to build a firearm of
any kind other than black powder.  The part of the firearm considered
illegal to manufacture without the FFL is the receiver.  Best
suggestion is to take this discussion over to rec.guns as well as
there will be some very knowledgeable people there about the legal
ramifications of this project.  However, there will be some very good
"machining" advice here.

dion

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164                 Email: [email-masked]
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs  San Diego, California

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From: David Einhorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:25:26 -0400

One other possibility is to build one from the original government 
specifications.  You might try calling Don Lutz, at Anitique Ordnance
Publishers for a copy of the specifications, at 810-987-7749

---

From: [email-masked](J.A.Harvey)
Date: 20 Sep 1996 14:31:13 GMT

>> A friend (net denied) is considering ordering a set of plans for a
22rf
>> machine shop and does nice work.

Having seen the plans from the Louisiana Company ( that advertises in
HSM) I can tell you that your friend should be thoroughly prepared to
extrapolate missing dimensions. The plans are contradictory in some
spots, and ambiguous in others. You can still build the model (
although I can't imagine where you are going to find .111 wall brass
tubing 2.09 dia. so that would most likely mean boring a piece of
billet to size. The plans also have duplicated drawing numbers which
gets a bit confusing ( two #12's for example ) . The instructions sound
as if they had been translated from another language in spots, and
there is no source list for some fo the items ( such as the barrels
which I would imagine would be a lot easier to buy than build.).

The construction of the model is primarily brass, so unless you have a
source of scrap, this is not going to be an inexpensove project.

To the good, the company seems to have a good customer serivce, having
sent additional photos of a particularly confusing part ( the pan which
is equivalent to the cylinder on a revolver). They have stated that
they are redrawing the plans to address some of the complaints of the
older issue.

As to the barrel issue, you can substitute blanks for the barrels and
ahve a nice non firing replica, or search out a source for old .22
barrels.

Other than that, you can have a really beautiful model when it is
completed. Plan on spending a good deal of time making this one. And by
the way, there is a lot of silver soldering involved, so brush up on
your soldering skills.

The other company RG-G claims to have a source for parts, but I refuse
to deal with a company which does not publish its phone number.

By the way, there is NO prohibition for building this model, working or
otherwise. It is NOT a machine gun, and you are permitted to make a
firearm for personal use. I think you would be nuts to fire this model
personally, but there is no law against doing so.

Good luck, it's a challenging project

Jim Harvey
[email-masked]
http://hre.com

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From: [email-masked] (Kirk Hays)
Date: 20 Sep 1996 16:20:52 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Dion Hollenbeck <[email-masked]> wrote:
>one.  

This is correct.

>However, without a FFL (Federal Firearms License) and one of the
>any kind other than black powder.  i

This is incorrect.  You can build firearms for your own usage without
any kind of license or permit, as long as the firearm is not
one that is otherwise restricted.

Call your local BATF office, and ask for the regulations covering this
area - they will provide them to you, free of charge.

>The part of the firearm considered

Good plan - I noted there is quite a bit of crossover between the
two groups, membership wise.

--
Kirk Hays
[I don't speak for Sequent.]

---

From: Dan Bollinger <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:20:18 -0700

> machine shop and does nice work.

Jay;

Ought to be a very useful item if fending off a miniature calvary!  

I believe the original units were designed and built in Indianapolis.  A 
.22 version is difficult in that the feed magazines must be able to deal 
with .22s not stacking parallel like the original ammo.  Other than that, 
it ought to be a piece of cake.  

Add an electric motor and electric primers and you have a mini-gun!

Caution:  Does this fall under the heading of semi-auto or full-auto, 
just a thought to your legal department.

Oh, yeah, please post a warning before you start shooting so the rest of 
us can duck..............

Dan Bollinger
Industrial Designer

From Bob Haskell Fri Sep 27 16:08:24 EDT 1996
Article: 35141 of rec.crafts.metalworking
Path: newz.oit.unc.edu!concert!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.PBI.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!zippo!drn
From: Bob Haskell
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: WTB: For 9" SB lathe and Van Norman 1/2 mill
Date: 20 Sep 1996 14:48:51 -0700
Organization: Zippo
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ten2-39.agt.gmeds.com

Want to buy the following for a 1927 9" South Bend Lathe, catalog # 322YC:

	- steady rest
	- follower rest
	- spindle nose cap
	- thread dial

The lathe carriage does not have attachment holes for a thread dial, so I'm
looking for suggestions.

For a Van Norman # 1/2 Mill

	- drawbar - the threads in mine are pretty shot
	- end mill holders
	- documentation - operator/repair manuals, lubrication charts, etc.

I've checked with Sobel (no luck with the lathe items and he's checking on the
mill pieces) and have also sent a message to Dave at meridian machinery.  I'll
be also getting a hold of Metal Lathe Associates.

Thanks,
Bob Haskell

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From: [email-masked] (Reg H. Beardsley)
Date: 20 Sep 1996 16:00:08 GMT

[ snip ]

> it ought to be a piece of cake.

Actually, some of the original Gatling guns were in rimfire.  Can't
remember which though.  While it certainly complicates the feed mechanism,
it is not insurmountable.

Have fun!

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
               I am solely responsible for the contents...

Reginald H. Beardsley                                      [email-masked]

              Exploration Software Consultants Incorporated
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Tom Herbert)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 20:21:30 GMT

>> it ought to be a piece of cake.

The original Gatling guns fired the .45 Gov't cartridge, known to us
now as the .45-70.  They have projecting heads, just like a .22LR.
You just have to exercise reasonable care when loading the magazines.

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From: [email-masked] (Andrew Dornbusch)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:25:52 GMT

>personally, but there is no law against doing so.

As I recall, the way the law runs is that you can build any
non-'destructive device'  firearm you wish for your own
experimentation, BUT YOU CAN NEVER SELL IT.  You 
cannot transfer it in any way, by sale, gift, or inheritance unless
you get a manufacturer's FFL and register it.  I assume when you die
it must be destroyed.

I have copies of the Blue and Yellow books, so if anyone requires the
reference, I will look it up.

BTW, 'Destructive device' refers to machine guns, short-barrel
shotguns, artillery, supressors, and similar restricted items.  Hand
operated Gatling guns are not classified as machine guns.

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From: "Kevin Rhodes, P.E." <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:31:16 -0700

> us can duck..............

Technically, it is not a machine gun although it may sound like one.  It 
would actually be a semi-automatic in that the trigger would be manually 
depressed (by turning the crank) for each shot.  I had read something to 
this effect in Machine Gun News.

The GE mini-gun is not technically a machine gun, but try to convince the 
ATF.

Kevin Rhodes

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From: Chuck Harris <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:42:40 +0000

> any kind other than black powder. 

Sorry Dion, but you are wrong.  You may build any non NFA fire arm you
want, provided you may legally own a firearm.  The only
tricky part is that legally, you may not sell or give the firearm to
anyone, ever.

-----
Chuck Harris
[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Jay McMunn)
Date: 19 Sep 96 15:20:06 GMT

thanx,

Jay, North Idaho

---

From: [email-masked] (PnP Nolan)
Date: 22 Sep 1996 13:24:33 -0400

>tricky part is that legally, you may not sell or give the firearm to

Absolutely correct, Chuck. You do *not* need an FFL. You may build a
firearm providing it conforms to the Class I regulations in effect. e.g
Not a banned 'assault' style, not full auto etc etc, AND providing you can
legally own a firearm. 
This means you could pass the requirements to purchase a gun from any FFL
holder. It is perfectly legal to build a semi-auto 'anything' providing it
conforms to the above specs and it does not have a magazine capacity of
more than 10 rounds. The Gattling falls loosely into the semi-auto
category. Full-auto means hold the trigger down and the gun fires until it
is released.

It does not need a serial number and it does not need to be 'registered'
or on-hold for the Brady waiting period. You build it, you use it. As to
someone's comment about not shooting the Gattling gun, poooh! Providing
you have built the breech and barrel as designed or better yet purchased a
barrel blank for the construction, Go have fun and shoot the sucker, at
your local range, of course.

It is unclear as to what should happen to the gun on your death though. It
can come under the family heirloom issue as long as it is not used, sold
or given away after your death.

If in doubt call the BATF and ask to talk to a firearms inspector. I have
found them to be very helpfull and informative. If you are trying to get
an FFL then they can be anything but helpfull and informative. <grin>

You could also talk to the Department Of Justice and the DA's office as
sometimes local laws will over-ride Federal. Generally though, as long as
you don't have a pound of Dope in your garage *and* home-made guns, there
is little risk of breaking any laws.

Peter

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From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 16:59:56 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>The GE mini-gun is not technically a machine gun, but try to convince the 

Sorry, but according to law a GE mini-gun is a machine gun as it
fires more than one projectile with a single mechanical motion (pull
of the trigger).  As long as you have to move something to make
another cartridge fire it's not a machine gun, thus a Gatling gun, with 
a crank motion to fire another round, is not a machine gun (until you
put a motor on it, anyway).

-- 
Russ Kepler							[email-masked]

                    Please Don't Feed the Engineers

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From: Robert Bickers <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Sep 1996 02:49:05 GMT

>tricky part is that legally, you may not sell or give the firearm to
Chuck, what happens to this gun when one dies, can it be enherited? Cheers Bob

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From: "Kevin Rhodes, P.E." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:27:00 -0700

> put a motor on it, anyway).

I concede the point.

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From: [email-masked] (Paul Pierce)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 15:28:37 GMT

As the late W.C. Fields said about elephants - "They are nice to look at, 
but who wants to feed one" - or something to that  effect..

Paul in AJ AZ
[email-masked]

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From: Dan Bollinger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:27:51 -0700

> >                     Please Don't Feed the Engineers

Another point to consider is that machine guns are not illegal!  As I recall, it is only illegal to own 
one without registering it and paying a one-time fee.  

Dan Bollinger

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From: [email-masked] (Nick Hull)
Date: 27 Sep 1996 11:45:34 GMT

> > machine shop and does nice work.

The magazine may prove to be it's doom.  If it holds more than 10 rounds,
its manufacture is forbidden by the AW & mag ban.  Maybe you can find a
grandfathered magazine, then it would be OK.  If undated, it's
grandfathered.

-- 
[email-masked]
Free men own guns-slaves don't