Subject: Re: --SUPERBIKE EXHAUST SYSTEMS Made of TITANIUM Anyboy Make Them?--

From: [email-masked] (Jonathan M. Elson)
Date: 11 May 1996 06:16:12 GMT

-Mayo,H.H. ([email-masked]) wrote:
: A friend of mine in Germany has a small business supplying fiberglass
: components to bike racers. He called me about getting some good quality
: exhaust systems from America. He asked me to inquire if anybody made
: them from titanium. So far, nobody seems to use this metal. Frankly,
: I'm not aware of any property of titanium that would make it more
: suitable for exhaust systems than any number of steels. 

: Is anybody aware of any company that fabricates these using titanium?
: I inquired on a couple of the bike groups, and evidently nobody is
: aware of any company that uses it for this application. What would 
: titanium add to a motorcycle exhaust system anyway other than cost?
: I can't imagine the weight savings would be that substantial.

On a car, the advantage would be light weight and rust (corrosion) 
resistance.  Titanium is a highly corrosion resistant, extremely heat
tolerant metal.  it is extremely difficult to work, however.  Nearly all
metal working methods are made difficult on this metal.  Many people
resort to electron-beam welding for Ti.  it is hard to drill, mill
and grind.  It will catch fire and burn like magnesium in air, and explode
violently if water is used in an attempt to extinguish a Ti fire.
The SR-71 aircraft, some fighter jets, etc. are made of Ti, and most of
the 'hot section' of jet engines are made of Ti.  The exhaust pipes of
jet engines are practically all made of Ti.

On a bike, the cost could come in line with reason in racing applications,
but the raw metal would likely cost several hundred dollars, and the process
of converting metal sheet into pipes and mufflers would likely run into
the thousands, due to the reasons cited above.  I don't know if motorbike
exhaust systems burn up at the same rate as car mufflers, but it is an
idea worth considering if they do.

---

From: "Jimmy T." <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:06:01 GMT

-Mayo,H.H. wrote:
> 
> exhaust systems from America. He asked me to inquire if anybody made
> them from titanium. So far, nobody seems to use this metal. Frankly,
> I'm not aware of any property of titanium that would make it more
> suitable for exhaust systems than any number of steels.
> 
> Is anybody aware of any company that fabricates these using titanium?
> I inquired on a couple of the bike groups, and evidently nobody is
> aware of any company that uses it for this application. What would
> titanium add to a motorcycle exhaust system anyway other than cost?
> I can't imagine the weight savings would be that substantial.
> 
>                                        Larry Mayo

I know Yoshimura makes a titanium exhaust system for superbikes. They've
been making their "Duplex" system in titanium for almost 8 years now. I
may be wrong on the price but I believe it sells in the $1200 USD range.
For comparison, I paid approx $300 for the same system in steel for use
on my Supersport class race bike.

Vance and Hines probably makes a Ti exhaust for their Yamaha superbikes
(thought I'm not 100% sure of this).

The main reason for a Ti system is weight.  Even though it may seem that
the savings is slight, at the National or International level of 
competition every little bit counts.

Later,

James.

---

From: Bill Seeley <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 May 1996 06:36:37 GMT

Actually the weight savings of titanium over steel would be 40%.
That is pretty substanial. There might be another consideration: Heat 
travels very slowly in Ti. The system would not tend to pull any heat 
away from the exhaust port. BIll