Subject: Boiler Inspection: Good or Bad

From: [email-masked] (dsg)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 06:28:25 GMT

Could anyone recite what their state's  boiler laws are?

Is there a maximum PSI and Temp where inspection comes into play?

Are private citizens not selling a product be subject to these laws?

dsg
http://www.chatlink.com/~soltherm/

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From: [email-masked] (Roger Mitchell)
Date: 23 Jul 1996 14:21:35 GMT

In the state of Colorado, if you employ anyone to operate a boiler or it
is used to haul the public for a fee, the boiler must be inspected by the
state. The boiler inspection department is under the Department of Labor.
On the Timnath Northwestern, the boiler of the 6 inch to the foot scale
2-6-2 that Alex Schneider and I built is inspected by the state yearly.
Though we designed and built the boiler our selves, we used all code material
in it's construction and got it certified by the state. After we were done
building it, we did an initial hydrostatic test at 1750 PSI followed by a
hydrostatic test of 600 psi for 2 weeks. The boiler has 4 square feet of
grate area and 100 square feet of evaporative surface along with a fire tube
superheater of 20 square feet. it is operated at a working pressure of
140 PSI. It is 20 inches in diameter and about 8 feet long. Hobby boilers 
are exempt from state regulation.
					Roger Mitchell
`					Vice President and Master Mechanic
					Fort Collins Municipal Railway

					Co-Builder, Timnath Northwestern Ry.

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From: Charles Lamont <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:48:58 +0100

Roger Mitchell writes

>we did an initial hydrostatic test at 1750 PSI followed by a
>hydrostatic test of 600 psi for 2 weeks.

>it is operated at a working pressure of 140 PSI.

This is crackers.  If the regulations require a pressure test at over 10
times working pressure, then the people who drew them up are guilty of
terminal wastefulness.  (In my not-so-humble opinion).

-- 
Charles {B.Sc.(Eng.)}

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From: Charles Lamont <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:36:29 +0100

dsg writes
>Could anyone recite what their state's  boiler laws are?

Whether the law requires your boiler to be inspected or not, if it
injures anyone, you are going to be liable.  So you need insurance.  You
will not get it insured without a pressure test.

-- 
Charles

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From: frank <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Jul 1996 20:33:04 GMT

WRT insurance... My wife is an commercial underwriter at [ Big Ins Co ]
and has to deal with steam boiler insurance fairly often.  Her uncle
is a division manager at [ Big Ins Co 2 ] in the steam boiler area.
He maintains his steam boiler certifications and has plenty of 
interesting stories.

Steam boilers can maim and kill plenty of people, demolish buildings, 
etc., when either poorly maintained, or used incorrectly.  In today's
disgustingly litigous world, I'd be hard pressed even to be assocaited
with an organization that even had a steam boiler in the past.

Be sure you have a good insurance agent and underwriter if you plan
to use a home-built steam boiler.  The most stunning lawsuits are
filed for tenuous, or even totally bogus, reasons.  Just a few true
stories would make you vomit and cry...

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From: [email-masked] (Bart Smaalders)
Date: 24 Jul 1996 15:46:18 GMT

Although in general there are no laws regulating hobby boilers,
the accepted practice for Live Steam hobbyists seems to be:

1) Design using suitable materials within ASME
   temperature recommendations.

   This typically means no copper over ~200 psi or so.  Folks
   building superheaters know to keep steel pipe under 800 F to
   avoid quick failures.  

   This info is available in various engineering handbooks...

   This also implies careful design to avoid "hot spots" and
   undercooled areas under all operating conditions including
   no steam flow, full safety discharge, etc.

2) Fabricate using proper joint design to avoid strength & corrosion
   problems... again the boiler code is your friend here when building
   with steel...

3) Initial pressure test to at least 2x max operating pressure.  You can do much
   more than this if you wish and your design has sufficient safety factors...

4) Subsequent yearly pressure tests to 1.5 x max operating pressure with 
   visual inspection.

Small boilers (esp. water tube) have tremendous advantages in safety over the
old large fire tube designs, but there's no substitute for constant care.

- Bart (who fired his new boiler for the Otter (see home page) last weekend
        for the first time).

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Bart Smaalders			Solaris Clustering	SunSoft
[email-masked]		(415) 786-5335		MS UMPK17-301
http://playground.sun.com/~barts			2550 Garcia Ave
							Mt View, CA 94043-1100

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From: [email-masked] (Craig C.)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:15:05 GMT

>terminal wastefulness.  (In my not-so-humble opinion).

If you want to know the minimums for testing, then head for the
nearest university library and pull a copy of ASME B31 ( I think this
is the correct standard) and check the hydrotest and boiler
certification requirements, as well as the design requirements.
Boilers used in different applications have different test criteria. I
sure wouldn't want to be around a boiler designed for low temp steam
and the operator is pushing for superheated steam.....When in doubt on
the design err to the safe side and consult  a  P.E. with the
appropriate experience....

Craig

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From: Mike Rehmus <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Jul 1996 03:41:02 GMT

Actually, I think you had a boiler accident last year when the
gasket on the mud ring cleanout port allowed a steam 'explosion'
in a small steam boat.  I believe the owner and his son/grandson
were killed.  This was during a boiler inspection, by the way.

Seems the gasket or door was installed incorrectly.  The
attending inspector is up on charges, I last heard.

Best regards,

Mike Rehmus

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From: [email-masked] (Bart Smaalders)
Date: 26 Jul 1996 17:38:42 GMT

>From  what I remember of this accident, this was caused by an improperly
installed hand hole cover in a firetube boiler.  The cover yielded when the
boiler was being inspected, and the small stokehold contributed to the 
effect.

> BUT, and it is a big BUT, several have been maimed or killed as a
> result of the failure of steam fittings to the boiler.  Last year
> the owner of a steam-powered boat was killed when something gave
> way on his boat's vertical boiler, which did its best to convert
> several gallons of water instantly into steam in the small
> compartment shared by the boiler and its owner... and fittings
> such as water gauges and valves aren't tested.

I include my valves, water glass, etc in the yearly hydro.  The safety
is on a union so it's readily removable and a plug installed...

I'll be taking the Otter (see homepage) out for the first time this weekend
w/ her new boiler as a shakedown cruise... we're heading for Victoria BC
next month to participate in the Northwest Steam Society's steam boat
meet August 9, 10, and 11th in the inner harbour in front of the Empress Hotel.

On other topic, I was given a piece of 5/8" dia fused silica quartz tubing
with thick walls... I'm using it as a gage glass as it seems much tougher and
certainly thicker than the normal "RedLine" Pyrex.  Any comments on this?
It survived the first firing just fine... 

- Bart

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