Subject: Re: To Enco or Not to Enco.?..

From: [email-masked] (Jon Winlund)
Date: 22 Apr 1996 20:40:32 -0700

You will really be sorry if you buy from Enco.

The voice of bitter experience.

[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Drumm)
Date: 27 Apr 1996 23:44:21 GMT

In message <[email-masked]> - "Frank J. Mihm" <[email-masked]>
writes:
->
->Jon --
->
->Can you provide a little more detail?  Thanks.
->
->               Frank
->
->\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
->[email-masked] (Jon Winlund) wrote:
->>You will really be sorry if you buy from Enco.
->>
->>The voice of bitter experience.
->>
->>[email-masked]

I'm not Jon, but I can relate my own experiences with ENCO. Case one- a
friend bought 2 self-coiling air hoses from them, the ends were not attached
very well. The first time he  used one of them the end blew off and hit him
in the forehead, one inch either way and it would have been his eye. He tried
to return them as defective, but Enco wouldn't take them back, claiming they
were misused.
Case 2- In Sept. '93 I ordered a 12"x9"x8" angle plate from Enco, which was
is one of their sale flyers, and they claimed was in stock. It took -over- a
year to get it. I wrote them numerous letters about it, each time I'd get a
reply that it would be shipped on a certain date, but never was. In Sept. '94
I wrote to cancel my order and have them remove me from their mailing list,
10 days later the angle plate arrived, exactly 1 year and 2 weeks after
ordering. Of course, the job I wanted to use it for was long gone by then....

[email-masked]
Using Warp/Neologic News/IAK
Wausau, WI. 44d 58m 00s N x 89d 36m 45s W
All opinions are my own, even if they are wrong!

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From: [email-masked] (Walter Black)
Date: 28 Apr 1996 16:37:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Peter Drumm) says:
Stuff deleted
>All opinions are my own, even if they are wrong!

With all these people bashing Enco I am wondering why no one has contacted
the Illinois Attorney General's Consumer Fraud Division in Springfield, IL.
(217)-782-9011.  If these reports of not getting orders for a year, of 
getting defective merchandise which is hazardous, and not being able to
return merchandise is true, the Attorney General can put them out of 
business, or fine them large sums of money!  But the AG can only do this if
he receives complaints from those of you that are getting screwed by Enco!

Walt Black
[email-masked]

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From: "Frank J. Mihm" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:34:24 GMT

Jon --

Can you provide a little more detail?  Thanks.

               Frank

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From: Rich Reitz <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 22:16:55 -0400

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> In article <[email-masked]>, Lycanthrope writes:
> 
> >... these are my questions.
> >
> > I am in the market for a 10-14 inch metal working lathe. I have heard
> some
> >conflicting stories about Enco equipment ....
> 
> DON'T DO IT.
> 
> I bought an entire shop from  ENCO
> I would kill them if I could

An old piece of junk that you'd find on the side of the road
is better than ENCO..All their stuff is made by 5 cent an hour
labor in CHINA...All of it. Buy American or European made products if 
you can.  This stuff will last decades and will actually turn out 
cheaper to own in the long-run. It's the old saying "Buy Cheap-Get 
Cheap", and "You get what you pay for".. I called them two years ago,
to order a lathe.....they were so rude and obnoxious that I hung up.
Since then I've spoken to a lot of machinists about their equipment and
I am really glad they were rude and obnoxious or I would have wound up 
with a $4000. piece of garbage..

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From: Ed Bennett <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Apr 1996 18:25:02 -0700

I've repaired everything I've purchased from Enco at least once.  The Mill
is less than four years old and I've already fixed the spindle brake
several times, replaced the quill return spring, replaced a gear in the
table feed ($50 and six months wait!) and have had the cheap depth gauge
fall apart several times during production runs.  The latest - the plastic
lens covering the led display on the dro fell off.  The glue just gave up. 
I understand from someone else in the newsgroup that has the same mill
that the lead screw in the table feed is metric, so the dial is not
accurate.  I never detected it because I always use the dro.  In fact, as
I recall, the drawbar was metric as well and I had to get a new one before
I could even use the darn thing.  The vise that I bought used a 1/2-12
thread on the screws that hold the jaws (not the standard 1/2-13). 

I bought the thing under their "six months same as cash" deal that they
used to run a few years ago.  What a sham.  There was a clause in the
contract that allowed them to change any or all of the terms of the
contract without my knowledge or concent.  I refused to sign without
crossing out that part.  I got a lot of static about it but when I offered
to bring it to the authorities, they gave in. 

There were some really nice people working in the Bay Area store.  I
always felt sorry for them having to put up with such a slimy company that
regularly screwed them without warning. 

I swore off Enco completely.  Their prices are always tempting but I can't
afford to save that kind of money. 

--
----------
Ed Bennett                 
[email-masked]

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From: Steve Wellcome <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 May 1996 12:53:37 GMT

>afford to save that kind of money. 

Reminds me of a sign I saw in a small gun shop once:  
 
         "Only rich people can afford poor quality."

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From: [email-masked] (Bob Bickers)
Date: Thu, 02 May 96 06:00:29 GMT

I have delt with Enco for about 10 yrs now and I shop [read examine] them very 
carefully, I'd never buy a machine tool from them but, thier 3 mikes for $30 
deal can't be beat. Sure I'd like to be able to afford Starret, but I can't, 
however there are times when nothing less will do. I feel it pays to look and 
go away and think about it, it took me 3 mos. to buy a 4jaw from them and for 
the $150 it cost it was a reasonable deal in the end. In short its the ol 
buyers beware. Bob
PS If its not in stock or they cant tell me where its at I usually dont buy.

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Brooks)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 16:39:31 GMT

Hmm, I'd had pretty good luck with the San Jose store.  I've had orders that
haven't been shipped for a long time, *but* I didn't have to commit any
money until the shipment came in.

The store manager works the counter between 5PM and 5:30 (closing), which
is usually the timeframe that I can get there.  He's sometimes pretty busy, 
but he'll do his best to serve customers.  I've seen him send away a 
delivery trucker (who should have been there at 2PM), but customers get 
service.

BTW, not all the Enco stuff is Chinese.  A lot of the small tools are made
in India (whether this is an improvement is open for debate), and they do sell
some USA made stuff.

I'll go by quality price and service.  Enco has had a lot of my business 
(though 99% of it is from the San Jose store), but I have a Sherline mill 
and an Atlas shaper.  I just keep in mind that the Chinese stuff is "a kit 
of parts rather than a complete machine tool".  With that in mind, I 
haven't been burned.

I'll be checking out the Rutland outlet, but a lot of their stuff seems to
be rather pricy.  For my purposes, I may end up staying with a combination
of used and Enco gear, perhaps with the occasional Grizzley tool sent down
>from  Seattle.

Pete Brooks

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From: [email-masked] (Edk4)
Date: 3 May 1996 15:57:22 -0400

I got quite a shock, yesterday. I received a notification, from Enco, that
something  I had ordered, which had been (what a surprise ...)
back-ordered, would be "just a bit longer in coming".  Enclosed was a form
which I 'had' to fill in and return. If they didn't hear from me by May
13th, they would 'assume that I no longer wanted it'. They enclosed an
SASE, too. Everything was hand written, including the envelope.
 
Amazing. I've been dealing with Enco for about two years, have never
placed an order without at least half of it being back-ordered, waited as
long as 14 months (for a 3/8 x 16 tap!), and this is the first time they
have shown any concern about my business.

No matter that I had been originally promised delivery the week of April
4th - Enco suddenly, really cares about me. 

Yeah, right. Maybe they caught wind of this thread and are trying
something new - 'service'. Come to think of it, isn't there a commerce
regulation that requires a dealer to notify a customer if a delivery will
be delayed a certain number of days and give them exactly this opportunity
to be patient or cancel the order?

It only takes one or two orders with Enco to realize what you can and
can't expect to be of reasonably acceptable quality. I go to the regional
store and look and feel first.
I bought a set of thin parallels without being able to see them first and
two pair were ground about 10 degrees out of square! They barely even
stood up, they leaned so much. To their credit, when I called Chicago and
complained, they told me not to bother sending them back and sent me out
another set. It had one set that leaned, but it was a different size from
the two leaners in the first set, so I ended up with one of each size that
was OK. Not great by any stretch of the imagination, but OK.

Not everything is made in Greater China or India, by the way. I've gotten
taps and milling cutters made in England, Canada and Israel. They were
pretty decent.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is definitely 'caveat emptor',
which with Enco could mean either "Let the buyer beware" or "Abandon all
hope, ye who enter here".

To end on a positive note, I'll add my voice to the chorus of compliments
for MSC. They are nothing less than a joy to deal with and their sales
fliers offer some pretty amazing bargains. I have always received my
orders within 24 hours, unless I ordered on Saturday. And, I have *never*
had an item back-ordered.

------------------
Ed Kingsley

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From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 17:48:37 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>the $150 it cost it was a reasonable deal in the end. In short its the ol 

The problem is not only the initial problems (to use your micrometer
example you really would need to check the thread barrel accuracy,
anvil face flatness at 4 positions, etc. as well as accuracy) but the
quality of the materials used in the construction (continuing: the
hardness of the threaded barrel and nut, anvil hardness or carbide,
quality of frame (settling over time leading to non-matched anvils,
etc.).  I've got enough problems in the shop that I don't need to deal
with someone else's quality problems.

I'm a lot happier with my old tools (average 1960's manufacture, I
expect) of mixed but good manufacturers than a whole set of newly made
Enco tooling, and I'd bet the cost was actually less than I would have
paid for the Enco tooling.  Just be patient, get anything of good
value when it comes up, and let folks know what you have to trade or
sell.  Eventually you fill that Gerstner model 82 chest with something
you can be proud to own and pass on to your grandchildren.

-- 
Russ Kepler posting from home  [email-masked]

                      Please don't feed the Engineers