Subject: Pleasant ENCO experience

From: [email-masked] (Skarsaune)
Date: 23 Sep 1996 22:13:32 -0400

It was with great trepidation that I approached the local Enco outlet,
having
read horror stories on r.c.m for months.  My only experience with them had
been
over the phone and wasn't wonderful either.  But I had to have a bandsaw
and they
had the best price on the little 4"x6" jobs.  Plus I wanted to look at the
rotary 
tables.
  What a pleasant surprise!  The clerk was helpful, practically jovial,
they had what
I wanted in stock, I was in and out in 10 minutes.
  The saw has been a good one two - I followed the recommendations posted
by 
others on the newsgroup re: cleaning out the gearbox, brace the flimsy
legs, and
get a good blade.  It's been cutting up 12L14 and 4150 barstock since the 
afternoon I got it home.
  I heartily second the advice previously posted - go to the outlet and
take what
they have in stock.  My bad experience was with a much delayed phone
order,
similar to previous complainants.

Chuck

---

From: Michael Latcha <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:07:44 -0400

Scott: AMEN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A. Latcha, PhD                     VOICE: (810) 370-2203
Associate Professor                        FAX:   (810) 370-4261
Department of Mechanical Engineering       Email: [email-masked]
Oakland University
Rochester MI 48309-4401

On 24 Sep 1996, Scott Logan wrote:

> 
> 
> In article <[email-masked]>, From [email-masked] 
> (Skarsaune), the following was written:
> > The saw has been a good one two - I followed the recommendations 
> > posted by 
> > get a good blade. 
> Excuse me, but am I the only person here offended by the idea of having
> to "Fix" a brand new piece of machinery?
> 
> Why should you have to clean out the gearbox?  If the legs are no good,
> THEY ARE NO GOOD! PERIOD!
> 
> If Logan Lathes were ever built like that, we'd have been put out of
> business long ago.
> 
> After reading the article in HSM on the Jet Lathe, I was flabbergasted
> that anyone would consider buying such a piece of crap.  If I had
> received that lathe, in that condition, no matter what the price, I
> would have been on the phone to the dealer to get someone out here to
> pick it up, because I wouldn't even pay the return freight.
> 
> If we would all just decide NOT to accept inferior workmanship, the
> quality would have to improve.  Look what happened to the auto industry.
>  We demanded better quality from american manufacturers, and we got it.
> 
> <rant mode off>
>  
> 
> --
>  ----------------------------------------
>  Scott Logan [email-masked]
>  09/24/96 07:35
>  http://www.loganact.com
> 
> 
> 
>

---

From: "Steven O. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:39:23 GMT

Scott--I hope I'm not horning in here.

Felice Luftschein & Nicholas Carter wrote:

> Scott,
> In all respect and with awe at your service, the reason we idiots buy
> all this crap is because
> 1) We have X amount of dollars, period.
> 2) It's cheaper  to fix a problem through service than
> through quality control (I am assuming this, and am writing
> a letter to JET to see if this is the case)

This is always false. There have been a lot of studies done about how
expensive it is to fix problems. It is always cheaper for the
manufacturer to make sure the problem does not occur than to fix the
problem later. If every one takes the attitude that they will fix the
problem at home, then the manufacturer has no reason to change their
practice.

Getting a problem fixed through causing the manufacturer to have better
quality control is admittedly a longer term solution. Folks who don't
complain are part of the problem.

An excellent example is the US automotive industry. The Japanese decided
a bunch of years ago to compete on quality. They can still sell cars for
equivalent money that have higher quality, despite recent American car
manufacturer's advances in quality. Their decision to focus on quality
still gives them an edge in manufacturing.
 
> So, the way I see it, I must challenge you, Scott.
> Go to Asia(or USA), have a respectable foundry do castings for you,
> ship them back to USA, assemble them in your factory, with your
> high level of quality control. Sell this lathe (mill, bandsaw) for no more
> that 20%over the Jet/ENCO/Harbor Freight price. Can this be done?
> Or even offer us a kit of asian castings and USA hardware, bearings etc.
> 
> Can you make a USA tool as inexpensively as a Asia tool?

You don't need to bring the manufacturing to the US to have a quality
machine. Wherever the machine is made, you have to have good, modern
manufacturing practice. This does not cost more, you just have to be
willing to do it. The extra effort to build quality into your products
is more than paid for by dramatically lower scrap rates in your
production line, let alone the benefits of satisfied customers. Lower
scrap rates in production is the tip of the iceberg.

-- 
Steven O. Smith
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Chris Pollard)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 21:41:40 GMT

J.A.Harvey ([email-masked]) wrote:

: This "disposable thinking" bothers me. Are you saying that you are
: never going to use your lathe after the job at hand is done? I don't
: think so. I understand that sometimes we are in a position where we
: need something right away and settle for less than quality. But in the
: long run everything suffers. the quality of your work suffers due to
: the inferior tool it was made on, your reputation suffers because of
: the inferior product you produced etc.
I was building a motorcycle from scratch and had a certain budget to get
it done.  I subcontracted the welding for $200 rather than buy a welder
and used some favors to get the large milling and lathe work done.  I
thought I ended up with a useful lathe for the price.
: For $1000.00 you could have probably called Dave at Meridian or another
: machinery dealer and bought a used "good" lathe that would have
: outperformed the crappy import that you are now saddled with.
I did look - I could have bought a smaller second hand German lathe for
more money with less accessories - I could not  find what I would consider
a good lathe, like a Colchester for $1000 -besides I wouldn't be able to
get it down the stairs to the basement.

: Scott Logan is correct when he says that if we all demand better, we'll
: get it. It's hard to stay in business if no one buys your product. the
: stiff coming out of Asia ranges from pretty good for the money ( MSC )
: to downright criminal ( some of the early Shoptask machines were
: $1200.00 worth of scrap iron.)
I checked on this list before I bought the Grizzly and most responses
indicated that it was a useful buy.  I would really like to buy a Deckel
FP4NC for home use, BUT a)I can't figure out how to move it b)I don't
have the electrical power c)I need parts now not when I can afford it. If I
can't get the job done at all because I spent all my money on
equipment I'm in worse shape.  By this same rule one would only buy IBM
computers and Sears would only have "Best brands".  This is the reason MSC
is so good.  Multiple qualities -  if I want a special sized drill or tap
that I only use once - I'll buy the throwaway.  If I'm going into mass
production I'll buy the TiC coated version - but if not it is a waste of
money (ie resources) to buy more than you need to do a job. So - I don't
buy Mercedes- Benz cars - do you?

---

From: [email-masked] (Scott Logan)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 12:36:23 GMT

<rant mode off>

---

From: [email-masked] (PnP Nolan)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 22:29:52 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Scott

>pick it up, because I wouldn't even pay the return freight.

I wrote that article in HSM after I had owned the lathe for some time. I
guess I was foolish to continue with it but I to use it daily. Since Jet
had replaced a bent one with one with bent parts I figured it was about as
good as could get from Jet.

> We demanded better quality from american manufacturers, and we got it.

Er, excuse me? Just which car or cars are you referring to?? The quality
of US cars is still back in the dark ages when you compare performance,
effiiency and enconomy of *any* European makes. The US makers are good at
adding gadgets like power seats and a driver profile, but what about HP
and economy??

Peter

PS I am currently looking to buy a Logan or a SB lathe and small shaper.

---

From: [email-masked] (Chris Pollard)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 15:32:12 GMT

Scott Logan ([email-masked]) wrote:

: Excuse me, but am I the only person here offended by the idea of having
: to "Fix" a brand new piece of machinery?
Well I could have spent $2000 on a German lathe or the $1000 I did spend
on a Grizzly.  For a few hours work I was able to make it perform almost
as well - maybe it won't last as long but I don't need it to. I was able
to do want I wanted - mostly mitering some tubes.  So the net cost to me
was less - maybe one should think of it as a kit of premachined parts.  
The only "cheaper" alternative would be to build my own - but then I'd be
better off spending the hours working at Mac Donalds and saving up for the
German one.
If you don't absolutely have to have a dead reliable long-lived machine
these imports represent a useful minimal cost solution.
In one case for a piece of assembly equipment - the designers were able to
use a Taiwanese press, throw away most of the parts they didn't need and
ended up with a cheaper solution than designing the whole thing from scratch.
OTOH the high volume, high precision machining vendor I use, who runs
three shifts, buys about the most expensive fastest Japanese CNC machines
he can - because it makes financial sense.
I could buy a $5000 Snap-on tool kit or spend $200 on mixed items to fix
my car - if the Taiwanese sockets break I replace them with US ones.

---

From: [email-masked] (Felice Luftschein & Nicholas Carter)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:31:03 GMT

Scott,

You're one of the most experienced guys on the NG, if
you can't do it, who can?

---

From: [email-masked] (William Gardner)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 04:59:54

>my car - if the Taiwanese sockets break I replace them with US ones.

What do you replace your broken knuckles with??
-----------------------------
Will Gardner
[email-masked]
-----------------------------

---

From: John Stewart <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:10:05 -0400

Chris Pollard wrote:
> as well - maybe it won't last as long but I don't need it to....

What is the resale value? 

In my mind, spending the money for something that will hold its value, because
it is well made and is respected in the marketplace, is money worth spending.

I went from an old 9 inch lathe, which was cheap, to a "newer" Emco Compact-8,
and there was no comparison. The old lathe has not been used since, thanks.

The Emco is a joy to use - there are no surprizes, and was worth every penny
that I spent on it. I bought it used, so its resale value is the same, or more,
than it was. (used prices in the British Magazines indicate that it has increased
its value over the years, for what that comparison is worth)

There are always two sides to every argument, though. I'll admit that forking
over gobs of cash is pretty difficult...

John Stewart
[email-masked]

---

From: "Steven O. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 18:00:22 GMT

> > others on the newsgroup re: cleaning out the gearbox, brace the flimsy
I agree, Scott. Refusing to accept junk is the best long term strategy.
Unfortunately, if you are new to the hobby, you don't know what problems
you have until you build up experience, and then you can't return it. 

My two main experiences with cheap tools were in saw blades and with a
mill-drill. I realized that I had a problem with the cheap hacksaw
blades the first time I tried to cut (annealed) tool steel. They didn't.
I don't buy those any more.

It would be really interesting if someone would actually measure the
effectiveness of different brands of cutting tools. Compare finish,
cutter life, etc. among different brands of blades, mills, etc. I'd be
willing to help with such a project, but I don't know enough about
machining to plan it out.

I bought my mill-drill used. I don't think there were any quality
problems with it--it did well on 'light milling', exactly as advertised.
As my projects developed, I learned that 'light milling' did not
describe most of my projects. 

What I find hardest to follow is why people prefer to buy new machines
over used ones. With just a little education on the part of the buyer,
you can get a much nicer machine for the same money. This is especially
true in saws--I've bought two Keller wet power hacksaws for $150 each,
which are far superior to a small bandsaw. You have to inspect used
stuff carefully, and be willing to wait for a machine to show up.

-- 
Steven O. Smith
[email-masked]

---

From: "Kevin Rhodes, P.E." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 14:08:14 -0700

> my car - if the Taiwanese sockets break I replace them with US ones.

Different strokes.  I am mostly a tinkerer, but I probably will have my 
new old lathe for quite a while.  IMO, I would rather spend an equivalent 
amount of money on used quality than on new equipment that does not 
perform.

---

From: [email-masked](J.A.Harvey)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 18:41:20 GMT

>as well - maybe it won't last as long but I don't need it to. I was
able

This "disposable thinking" bothers me. Are you saying that you are
never going to use your lathe after the job at hand is done? I don't
think so. I understand that sometimes we are in a position where we
need something right away and settle for less than quality. But in the
long run everything suffers. the quality of your work suffers due to
the inferior tool it was made on, your reputation suffers because of
the inferior product you produced etc.

For $1000.00 you could have probably called Dave at Meridian or another
machinery dealer and bought a used "good" lathe that would have
outperformed the crappy import that you are now saddled with.

Don't get me wrong, I own an import Mill/Drill that has given excellent
service since its purchase ( I bought an MSC variety - seems that their
import machinery is a cut above some of the identical "looking"
machines that are out there.) So I am not entirely opposed to using
something from the Asian block. But we knew what we were getting when
we bought it so there were no surprises. We were fortunate to be
located where we could go to MSC and see the machien before hand and
make our purchase based on our own criteria. Not possible when ordering
mail order. Additionally, I don't mind letting a new guy use the Mill/
Drill while no one touches the Bridgeport if you catch my drift.

Scott Logan is correct when he says that if we all demand better, we'll
get it. It's hard to stay in business if no one buys your product. the
stiff coming out of Asia ranges from pretty good for the money ( MSC )
to downright criminal ( some of the early Shoptask machines were
$1200.00 worth of scrap iron.)

As far as Snap-On goes, there is a case of complete overkill as far as
pricing. Snap-On has no qualms about taking something that retails in
its generic form for $100.00 and putting it in a Snap-On box and
charging $300.00 for it. ( Buy a set of their tap extractors sometime,
Wilton sells the same set ( at MSC ) for $39.00 Snap-On over $100.00)

A friend of mine needed a set of test leads for a job he was woring on.
The Snap0-On dealer was at his shop and he (without thinking ) said "
give me a set". For $38.00, the Snap-On dealer sold him a set of test
leads that you can buy at Radio Shack for $5.99 - Whew!
Jim Harvey
[email-masked]
http://hre.com/

---

From: [email-masked](J.A.Harvey)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 05:47:03 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (PnP Nolan)
writes: 
[snip]
>adding gadgets like power seats and a driver profile, but what about
HP

Peter:

 Excuse me? I don't suppose that you ever drove a Quad 4. As much as I
am a Chevy Shop, you are never going to see performance from an import
like that of a 5.o Mustang. and still get 24 mpg if you drive nice. 

Stomp on a Lexus and see the gas gauge drop like my Amtrak stock. If
you're so inclined to a smaller car, I'd put a Saturn up against
anything Japan has to offer. talk about customer satisfaction? Just ask
a Saturn owner if they are happy with their dealer. Technology found in
American cars today is quite impressive. Oldsmobile is a leader in
extracting power and economy from their motors.

Your comments may have held up as recently as 5 or 6 years ago, but not
today.

Jim Harvey
[email-masked]
http://hre.com

---

From: [email-masked] (PnP Nolan)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 02:43:48 -0400

Peter

---

From: [email-masked] (Jens)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:54:47 -0700

>THEY ARE NO GOOD! PERIOD!

Ahh, the mighty dollar speaks .... pay when you buy or pay when you
fix but pay you must :)

> Look what happened to the auto industry.

Excuuuuse me .... my Ford F250 is CERTAINLY NOT an example of that !!!
(but it is a good example of what could be produced in China)

Jens

---

From: [email-masked] (Reg H. Beardsley)
Date: 25 Sep 1996 17:48:43 GMT

I've not seen the start of this thread and with the cancel-spam that took
place this weekend, probably won't (FYI someone launched a net attack by
forging article cancels, while some of the articles were reposted, there
were probably quite a few that were lost)

Some comments:

1)  People buy the machines they can find at prices they can afford.  Most
    of us have to compromise.

2)  Buying and rebuilding old machinery does NOT increase the supply of new
    good quality machines.  If anything, it decreases the production volumes,
    thereby increasing costs and ultimately driving companies from the market.

3)  There are good quality import machines on the market, however, they are
    either very expensive, too big, or both.  I have grave misgivings about
    acquiring a 12"x36" Monarch weighing 5000 lbs. at ANY price.

3)  A semi-finished kit might make economic sense.  Hardening & grinding the
    ways requires machinery probably unavailable to a prospective purchaser.
    On the other hand, boring the headstock using Dave Gingery's method or 
    a variant is viable.  As is handscraping the headstock and tailstock to 
    the ways.

4)  In recent years, the price of American made air compressors has gone down.
    I don't know how they've managed to do it, but clearly they've found 
    way to cut the costs without unduly sacrificing the quality.  Same
    thing with pressure washers.  At $1000 I can't justify buying one,
    but at $250 for a 1500 psi, gasoline driven unit I couldn't refuse.

I'd raised the subject of an a Logan built from Asian castings in an email
to Scott, but haven't received an answer.  Since others have raised the
question here, I'll elaborate a bit.

Using an existing Logan design built in the US from Asian castings, how
much would they have to sell for and how many would you have to sell to
make it worthwhile?  This is purely a business question.  No one can afford
to manufacture machinery just to be a "nice guy".  On the other hand,
there are enough import machines of indifferent quality being sold to
prove that there is a substantial market for a low cost machine.  By 
using an existing Logan design, even if the venture proved unsatisfactory
economically, support for the machines would not be a problem.  If the
rejection rate on castings made production impractical, those that were
acceptable could be sold as spare parts.  While this would reduce the risks,
I'd like to point out to that it would still require quite a lot of capital 
and much of it would be at risk.  Since the importers buy whole machines, 
they don't have to face the same financial exposure.

-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
               I am solely responsible for the contents...

Reginald H. Beardsley                                      [email-masked]

              Exploration Software Consultants Incorporated
------------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Felice Luftschein & Nicholas Carter)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:34:26 GMT

Another way of getting a quality lathe would be if someone
got a no-name chinese dealership, so that the cost to
them was 35% (or whatever the standard dealer price is) less,
then precision rebuilt the lathe to quality standards. This would be the
same as how us idiots do it now, only the work would be done by a professional.
If you look at the difference in price between the JET and the no-name brands,
, just for service, one thinks that people would pay more than the JET price 
for high quality. This assumes that these import tools are worth rebuilding
however. 

Then again, JET(HF, ENCO, Grizzly) could offer two grades of each model, 
crappy and precision.

just thinking....

---

From: [email-masked] (Charles Gallo)
Date: 25 Sep 96 21:08:26 -0700

Jim,
	I'm one of those happy Saturn owners.  You are right.  And if 
_EVERY_ European car is btter than the best American car why is this 
joke funny: How do you double the value of a Yugo? A: Fill the gas 
tank

Charlie

---

From: andy popky <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:46:15 -0400

sorry to disagree jens
but i have owned 2 FORD explores in the past 3 years
they are mechanicly perfect not a single problem in 50,000+miles
and i will most likely buy my third one in june (no i don't work for
FORD)

regards
ap

---

From: [email-masked] (Scott Logan)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 00:58:10 GMT

Reg,

Sorry I hadn't replied to your e-mail, I was trying to compose a proper
response.

Your message makes some very good points, and perhaps I was a bit over
zealous in my attack on low priced machines.

I think that a poorly designed machine, such as the Jet referred to in
the HSM article, can be properly sold at a low price.  Now before I get
flamed, any lathe headstock that relies on set screws, pushing against
hold down bolts, _is_ poorly designed.

OTOH, any machine, well designed or not, should not be delivered with
hammer dings on a pulley, or a headstock which tilts .030" or sand in a
gearbox.  That is what I mean by junk.

As for your comments regarding an "asian" Logan Lathe, this may make
some sense.  There are some other things to consider, though.

#1 - What will people think when they find their nice new
North-American-built machine was built from castings produced in, say,
China?  Using, as some suggest, political prisoner labor?

#2 - Volume.  How many machines can be sold per month?  How many
castings need to be purchased off-shore to be feasible?

#3 - You're right about the capital investment, though I don't know if
you realize how big that investment would have to be. Manufacturing a
lathe (the right way) includes some fairly specialized machinery, such
as bed mills, as well as a lot of pattern work.

#4 - How much will you, and everyone else be willing to pay for product
liability insurance?  A Lathe or any other machine tool has inherent
dangers built into its use. Now we are talking about producing a machine
specifically for the home market. Product liability insurance would not
be optional, and would add many thousands of dollars of overhead per
month to the manufacturer's bottom line.  And believe me, anything that
adds to the expenses of the manufacturer, be it insurance, wages, taxes,
whatever, WILL be passed on to the purchaser.  In today's litigious
society, I would not want to even dream of the insurance costs. 
Consider the multi-million dollar award handed down to the woman who
spilled coffee in her own lap.

 09/25/96 19:58
 http://www.loganact.com

---

From: [email-masked] (Jens)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:16:31 -0700

>and i will most likely buy my third one in june (no i don't work for

I am glad that your experience was so positive. Maybe they are doing
things a bit different for Explorers or maybe I got a
Monday-after-the-long-weekend edition ... who knows. All I know is
that I like the looks of the F250 over the chev trucks and that's why
I bought the Ford. Next time I will try to let better judgement
prevail. I don't know if Chev's are any better but I don't think they
could be worse.

If the Japanese would make a decent 3/4 ton 4*4, I would not hesitate
!!!

Jens

---

From: Mike Patrick <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:50:44 +0000

> and i will most likely buy my third one in june (no i don't work for

Two in a row makes you one lucky guy.  If you lived in Colorado, I'd 
have you buy a lottery ticket for me.  I had a Ford Explorer that took 
four sets of brakes and rotors in less than 30,000 miles.  The Ford 
dealer told me that Ford had a pad/rotor incompatability problem, and 
couldn't fix the front brakes with factory parts.  I went all the way 
up to Ford national, and was told the same thing all the way up.  

Finally, I sold the Explorer at a significant loss, and bought a 4 
year old Landcruiser.  No problems since....

Regards,

Mike

---

From: [email-masked] (Jhko)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 12:50:40 -0400

>hold down bolts, _is_ poorly designed.

By the way folks, Emco-Maier seems to always be held up as an example of a
"good" German (actually Austrian) lathe. True, they do cost three times as
much, figuring the accessory cost (I know, 'cause I bought one). However,
the headstock design on an Emco Compac 8 is *exactly* the same as the
"crappy" Jet (at one third the price). Yep, it has set screws and all, and
is not machined to the ways. Looks exactly like the picture of the Jet
headstock in the article. However, to be fair, the finish and quality feel
is much higher.

Joe Osborn
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Bruce Woltz)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 12:18:07 -0700

In article <[email-masked]>,
Mike Patrick  <[email-masked]> wrote:
:andy popky wrote:
:> 
:> sorry to disagree jens
:> but i have owned 2 FORD explores in the past 3 years
:> they are mechanicly perfect not a single problem in 50,000+miles
:> and i will most likely buy my third one in june (no i don't work for
:> FORD)
:> 
:> regards
:> ap
:
:
:Two in a row makes you one lucky guy.  If you lived in Colorado, I'd 
:have you buy a lottery ticket for me.  I had a Ford Explorer that took 
:four sets of brakes and rotors in less than 30,000 miles.  The Ford 
:dealer told me that Ford had a pad/rotor incompatability problem, and 
:couldn't fix the front brakes with factory parts.  I went all the way 
:up to Ford national, and was told the same thing all the way up.  
:
:Finally, I sold the Explorer at a significant loss, and bought a 4 
:year old Landcruiser.  No problems since....
:
:Regards,
:
:Mike

Isn't the Explorer made by Mazda? Mazda actualy makes a 
2 door SUV that looks exacty like the explorer.

Bruce

---

From: andy popky <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:58:36 -0400

> 2 door SUV that looks exacty like the explorer.

SORRY BRUCE
BUT FORD MAKES THE EXPLORER
AND MADE THE MAZDA 2 DOOR VERSION (NO LONGER MADE)

REGARDS
AP

---

From: [email-masked] (VKruger)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 22:19:29 -0400

No, the Mazda Navajo is in fact a rebadged Ford Exploder (an interesting
reverse of the "badge engineering" embodied in the Ford Courier/Mazda
B2000 pickups!)

---

From: [email-masked] (Robert Fahey)
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:15:34

Re: Mazdas and Ford Explorers

Believe Ford makes the Mazda version for them here in the 
US. It is a "rebadged" Explorer not a "rebadged" Ford.

---

From: [email-masked] (Garry Foster)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 12:53:13 GMT

Are you still making lathes?

---

From: "Kevin Rhodes, P.E." <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:40:05 -0700

> Are you still making lathes?

I have to hope this was an innocent inquiry and not a subtle attempt at a 
cheap shot.

I have only been a member of this NG for a couple of weeks, but have 
found it to be extremely valuable and informative.  Ask and ye shall 
receive good information.

Scott Logan has been conspicuously present as a generous source of good 
information.

Enough said.

Kevin Rhodes

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From: [email-masked] (Scott Logan)
Date: 27 Sep 1996 16:22:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, From [email-masked] (Garry 
> Are you still making lathes?

Not at present.

 09/27/96 11:22
 http://www.loganact.com

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From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:09:45 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Jhko <[email-masked]> wrote:
>                                                                 However,

Often, all the same basic parts and design are used in a cheaper
lathe or mill as in a more expensive model, and the difference is in
the fitting and parts quality used.  Nothing wrong with this, but it
does point out that you had better not judge machine tools by the 
external appearance.

-- 
Russ Kepler							[email-masked]

                    Please Don't Feed the Engineers