Subject: Re: Advanced "Toy" Gyroscope

From: "John R. Johnson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:15:29 -0600

On 4 Dec 1996 [email-masked] wrote:
<snip>
> 
>   Quality is like buying oats, if you want nice, clean, fresh oats you
> must pay a fair price.
> However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through
> the horse...
>                                      That comes a little cheaper...
> 

Buying cheap low quality tools puts you in the same condition as the
Missouri farmer.  He couldn't afford oats for his mule, so he started
substituting a little sawdust into the mules ration.  It worked pretty
well so he just sort of gradually increased the sawdust percentage in
the oats.  It was working real well, but just about the time he got 
that old mule on straight sawdust, it up and died.

John

---

From: Jeffrey Prothero <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:12:24 -0800

On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Randy Knott wrote:

> James P. Riser wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Bruce;
> > There were several studies done (for electric auto energy conservation,
> > etc.) on the best shape for the flywheel.  It turned out that it was NOT
> > the typical weight at the rim concept which seems so logical.  You might
> > want to research this before going too far in your designing.
> > Jim
> > 
> > --
> > James P. Riser
> > Home page:  http://www.azstarnet.com/~jriser
> 
> Thats very difficult for me to believe Jim.  Are you sure that the 
> more efficient shape that you mentioned wasn't due to an integraly
> built in generator(wires magnets and such)?
> Clint
> 
At a high enough speed a gyroscope/flywheel will come apart from the 
centrifugal force.  The design for extremely high speed has the outside 
rim smaller and increases toward the center.
				CHeers,

---

From: [email-masked] (James Wilkins)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 08:12:50 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
(Jens) wrote:

> [email-masked] (Gloria Edith Keays) wrote:
> 
> >I'm taking a course in it right now... AARRGHHH!
> 
> My condolences
> 
At least you can appreciate the graffiti incident in Life of Brian.

-- 
James Wilkins
The Mitre Corp.
Bedford, MA

---

From: [email-masked] (Fitch R. Williams)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 06:31:47 GMT

Thank you all for filling that divot in my mental media.

Fitch

Jeffrey Prothero <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Quod est Demonstratum.........That which is to be demonstrated.
>Used at the end of proofs.
>			Cheers,

>On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Fitch R. Williams wrote:

>> [email-masked] (Jens) wrote:
>> 
>> >[email-masked] (Fitch R. Williams) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> >>QED
>> >>
>> >>Fitch
>> 
>> 
>> >QED ?????
>> 
>> I forget the exact latin quote, it appeared at the end of
>> proofs in some of my college math classes like LInear
>> Algebra and Advanced Calculus most of which I would find
>> very confusing now except for the few parts I use
>> frequently!
>> 
>> Fitch
>> 
>> 
>>

---

From: Elliot Burke <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:53:50 -0800

Bruce Roland wrote:
> 
> I'm interested in building a high quality version of the "$5 toy
> gyroscopes". (i.e precision bearings, long run times, maybe larger
> sizes, etc.)  I would be most appreciative if anyone has plans for one
> or knows where I can find plans,
> 
> If not, designs for the bearing portions would be very helpful.
> 
> My ultimate design goals would include a battery powered motor to drive
> the gyroscope for continuous running.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.
> 
My gyro  has a rotating motor and solar cell, the shaft of the motor is
stationary.  Goes like crazy.

Elliot Burke
HighTide Instruments
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked] (Alan Shinn)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 14:25:43 -0800

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

> "One more time - with feeling".  Can anybody give me some ideas for the
> contruction of the gyro (particularly the bearings)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bruce

Think about saphire (jewel) bearings with hard pointed steel shaft. Clock
jewels are not to expensive.

-- 
Al Shinn   (Tinker)
alshinn@ sirius.com

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 4 Dec 1996 04:14:23 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Randy Knott <[email-masked]>
writes:

>James P. Riser wrote:
>> 
>> > [In article <[email-masked]> Bruce Roland
>> > [[email-masked]> wri
>> > [tes:
>> > [
>> > [[I'm interested in building a high quality version of the "$5 toy
>> > [[gyroscopes". (i.e precision bearings, long run times, maybe larger
>> > [[sizes, etc.)  I would be most appreciative if anyone has plans for
one
>> > [[or knows where I can find plans,
>> > [
>> 
>> Bruce;

  I think that what they found out was that they could make a light weight
flywheel stronger. You can then spin it faster and thus get more energy
per pound of weight. A very desirable property if one wants to make his
flywheel mobile. If a guy puts it in a vaccuum then the lighter flywheel
might very well store more energy. 
 
  LWC

   Wayne Cook

---

From: [email-masked] (Gloria Edith Keays)
Date: 2 Dec 1996 07:44:48 GMT

Fitch R. Williams ([email-masked]) wrote:
: [email-masked] (Jens) wrote:

: >[email-masked] (Fitch R. Williams) wrote:

: >>QED
: >>
: >>Fitch

: >QED ?????

Quod erat demonstrandum

which was to be demonstrated

: I forget the exact latin quote, it appeared at the end of
: proofs in some of my college math classes like LInear
: Algebra and Advanced Calculus most of which I would find
: very confusing now except for the few parts I use
: frequently!

Seconded... except that even the parts I use seem confusing, half
the time (could be cause I'm taking a course in it right now... AARRGHHH!)

: Fitch

Rod (on his wife's account)

---

From: [email-masked] (Peter Brooks)
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:12:36 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:

: >QED ?????

: Latin acronym for "It goes without saying"

Nope.  You mean "Sine qua non".  I think.

Pete Brooks

---

From: [email-masked] ("Richard Sewell")
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:36:00 GMT

>Missouri farmer.

What *is* this obsession with expensive tools ? I've done good work with 
cheap tools, and bad work with expensive ones - sure, the expensive & 
well-made ones sometimes produce a much better result, but they are by no 
means inevitably indispensable. The trick is to know when you *need* to 
spend the cash. 

Of course, sometimes it's worth buying the good stuff for its own sake, 
but we should try to treat that as the recreational expense that it 
really is...

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 22:52:36 GMT

[email-masked] (Andy Dingley) wrote:

>The moving finger of Bruce Roland <[email-masked]> having
>written:
>
>Take a small amount of cash and a good surplus shop. All the best
>gyroscopes I've seen have been from missiles. I have a really nice air
[snip]
 Just a thought: I wouldn't expect ex-missile gyros to last long. They
must of course run well while they run, but the missile's flight-time
is very short.

--  Dave Brooks    <http://www.iinet.net.au/~daveb>
PGP public key via <http://www.iinet.net.au/~daveb/crypto.html>, or servers
    "From" line rigged to foil spambots: daveb <at> iinet.net.au

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 22:55:59 GMT

>Nope.  You mean "Sine qua non".  I think.
"QED" = Quod Erat Demonstrandum - That which was to be shown. It
appeared (typically) at the end of formal proofs in geometry, which
would start with a statement such as "To show that AB = AC". A thread
of argument follows, then the punchline: "Hence AB=AC.  QED"

"Sine qua non" = Without which nothing. ie the referenced item is
absolutely essential.

---

From: [email-masked] (Andy Dingley)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 19:49:26 GMT

Take a small amount of cash and a good surplus shop. All the best
gyroscopes I've seen have been from missiles. I have a really nice air
blast gyro (from a Bloodhound SAM, AFAIK) with a brass rotor about a
pound in weight, where the compressed air nozzle also locks the
gimbals in place. On launching, the nozzle pulled out to release the
gimbal. You can blow it up a reasonable speed just by mouth.

It uses plain bearings, a hard steel cone on the spindle running in  a
large brass bush. I've not dismantled it, but there's obviously
something else inside the bush. From the back I can see a hard,
glassy, insert that might be either mirror polished steel, or even
glass itself.

---

From: [email-masked] (Steve Rayner)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:39:38 GMT

In a previous article, [email-masked] (Andy Dingley) says:

>knet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!codesmth.demon.co.uk
>From: [email-masked] (Andy Dingley)
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
>Subject: Re: Advanced "Toy" Gyroscope
>Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 19:49:26 GMT
>Organization: Codesmiths Software Development Ltd.
>Lines: 18
>Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
>References: <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]> <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>NNTP-Posting-Host: codesmth.demon.co.uk
>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: codesmth.demon.co.uk
>X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
>
I have a couple from an old sperry bombsight ( I think ).  The end of the 
shaft is coned, and runs in three steel balls in a matching race.  No cage.
-- 
Steve. 

******************Knowledge is wasted if it is not shared.*******************

---

From: [email-masked] (Michael Horgan [Lughaid])
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:31:49 GMT

>must of course run well while they run, but the missile's flight-time
Ah, but they have to work regularly when  tested, both on the ground,
and in flight, for years, before they are finally used.  Also, of
course, they are designed to work under enormous "G"-loads when used,
so they should work for a long time in hobby use.
Michael Horgan ([email-masked])
http://users.aol.com/Lughaid

---

From: [email-masked] (Orest I Koroluk)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:43:50 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Peter

> Nope.  You mean "Sine qua non".  I think.

QED is written at the conclusion of a developed proof of a concept to
indicate that the original problem has been resolved. It stands for "quod
erat demonstrandum" which translates into "that which was to be
demonstrated".

Orest

-- 
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                           Orest I. Koroluk
                   Technical Officer~Agent technique
     Royal Military College of Canada~College militaire royal du Canada      
     Department of Mechanical Engineering~Departement de genie mecanique 
                   Kingston  Ontario  Canada  K7K 5L0
                                          __     __        
    Voice-(613) 541-6000 ext 6281        / /<^> / / NATIONAL   DEFENSE
    FAX-(613) 542-8612                  / /<__>/ /  DEFENCE    NATIONALE
    e-mail: [email-masked]           /_/  / /_/

---

From: [email-masked] (Andy Dingley)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:07:29 GMT

The moving finger of [email-masked] having written:

> Just a thought: I wouldn't expect ex-missile gyros to last long. 

I'm not so sure. The build quality on this thing far exceeds anything
I can imagine being able to afford by any other means.

---

From: Bruce Roland <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 00:48:54 -0500

Thanks,

Bruce

---

From: [email-masked] (Dave Ide)
Date: 11 Dec 1996 11:41:46 GMT

Andy Dingley ([email-masked]) wrote:
: gyroscopes I've seen have been from missiles. I have a really nice air
: blast gyro (from a Bloodhound SAM, AFAIK) with a brass rotor about a
   
     Where did you get it? I want one.
     David Ide

---

From: [email-masked] (Dave Ide)
Date: 5 Dec 1996 23:34:39 GMT

: : Latin acronym for "It goes without saying"
: Nope.  You mean "Sine qua non".  I think.

    I think "It goes without saying," that the
 individual who started this thread was contemplating
 building an improved gyroscope, the toy many of will
 recall as the toy "sine qua non" of our childhood.
 I certainly enjoyed my gyroscope more than Latin class.
(Whatever happened to High School Latin Class anyway?
    My main problem with the gyros as I recall was that they
 didn't survive being dropped on the ground. The frames
 would get bent and then you couldn't pull very hard on
 the string without pulling the flywheel out. The other
 problem was that even in peak condition they didn't
 spin long enough.
   So I think an advanced model needs a stronger frame.
 I am not so sure that ball bearings are the way to go
 for the fly wheel. Maybe a hardened pointed flywheel
 shaft turning in little carbide "receivers." I haven't
 any idea how to make the carbide pieces. I like the
 human powered, non-electric, idea, but maybe it needs
 a separate geared up winder to really give it some starting
 speed.

 David Ide

---

From: [email-masked] (Peter Brooks)
Date: 11 Dec 1996 18:25:33 GMT

Re: surplus gyros.  Had one in my youth, circa 1966.  Mouth power would
spin the rotor up to a respectable speed, but for thrills, we took it to
the local service station and spun it up with the air hose.  Made one hell
of a siren noise and took a *loooonnnggg* time to spin back down.

Haven't seen gyros at the local surplus shops, but then I haven't asked.
They frequently get *amazing* things in, like the optical table slabs
>from  Lockheed Missle & Space--about 8' x 20'.  No lasers, though--the
government kept them.  Hmm, what kind of laser work needs 2 slabs that
size????

Pete Brooks

---

From: [email-masked] (Andy Dingley)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 01:51:26 GMT

>     Where did you get it? I want one.
Proops of course !    (some time ago)

---

From: [email-masked] (Ray Breakwell)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 05:19:53 +1100

In article <[email-masked]>,
[email-masked] wrote:

> blast gyro ...etc

Hey, _I've_  got  one like that ! It came from a WW2 bomber ... It has
"Directional Gyro"
and other info on the front. It's in an alloy case of about a 6" cube. If
I run the reverse 
vacuum cleaner through it it 'whines' up to extremely high revs and ,
after operating the
'set/release' knob, I can walk anywhere around the house to have the dial
return exactly to
it's original setting. ( Pretty stupid excercise, I admit  :-)   )  

Just a bit of useless trivia !!  I thought only myself and my kids ( when
younger) were interested
 in this sort of stuff.

So I agree with the above writer. If you want an "advanced" gyroscope, a
military 'disposal'
outlet would _have_ to be a good way to go.

....-Ray.

-- 

  " The tide ebbs and flows......but the sea _is_..... always! " 

            __o            ³ Perfect speed                           
          _`\<,_                is Œbeing there¹  ²
 ~~  (@)/ (@)                            - Chiang Seagull.
^#~^+=+²#~~^^+~~+==^v^^^##~^^

Ray Breakwell              [email-masked]   
Central Coast
NSW. Australia.

---

From: Bob Andereck <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:06:52 -0700

> I can imagine being able to afford by any other means.

Any part on a missle is built heavy-duty to withstand the vibration and
shock environments of launch and flight.  Depending on the particular
missile, they may be required to be powered up for extended times.  You
are not likely to wear out a gyro very soon.

Bob