Subject: Re: Substituting 1 picture for 1000 words

From: [email-masked] (Filip M Gieszczykiewicz)
Date: 2 Dec 1996 18:31:39 GMT

In Article <[email-masked]>, through puissant locution, [email-masked] (Kevin  AstirCS "1U"   KO0B) soliloquized:
>>>regarding difficulty of discribing something with words, when a
>>>picture is what is really needed,
>>
>>If you are using a Windows based computer, you can always
>>create .bmp files using paintbrush, or paint, and attach them to your
>>posting...I think.
>
[zap]
>Unfortunatly, due to low quality/quantity ratio of the content,
>(meaning gigabytes of smut) many servers do not carry the alt.
>heirarchy.  Perhaps one of the people with a web page could make a
>sub-page for posting pictures & sketches of projects, problems, and
>ideas.  I'm pretty web ignorant, but heck it worked fine on the old
>dial-up BBSs.

Greetings. This is too true. The web-page idea is what I use for
making programs and image available that I mention in my postings.
Alas, due to the size of my www site, I can only spare about 500KB
at the moment. I would be willing to help in some way. What this
group needs is a communal site... anyone want to sponsor a
10MB account/month? I have been shopping for a mirror and the usual
rate is around 10-15$US per month with no limit on data out. Then
again, I would not expect more than a few hundred transfers for
any one image on the site so exceeding monthly limits should not
be a concern.

Again, KISS is the best policy. It would be trivial to set up a
site with just a main menu and then either by-person, by-project,
or by-general-interest organization. I believe in the web being
a generic and compatible-to-all place so my pages are a bit drab
but they work on all browsers I know of. If you want more, someone
else will have to do it. (http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/REPAIR/)

Anyone have the $$$?

Take care.
-- 
+-->Filip "I'll buy a vowel" Gieszczykiewicz | E-mail: [email-masked]
| http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/ |SCI.ELECTRONICS.REPAIR FAQ + LOTS MORE!
| Enjoy your job, work within the law, make lots of money : Choose any two.
| I think for myself. I listen. I make decisions. I speak what I believe.

---

From: [email-masked] (Filip M Gieszczykiewicz)
Date: 2 Dec 1996 18:36:44 GMT

>any one image on the site so exceeding monthly limits should not

Greetings. I would also like to note that there is no need to go
all the way and register a name for this group site. It now costs
$100/2 years to register one (used to be free for orhanizations but
due to cuts that is no longer the case). I think something like:

http://<provider>/~metalworking

would be just fine until this idea takes off. So, in effect, this
brings down the costs of setting up a site for this group to under
$100 per year... which is not such a big funraising dilema...

Take care.

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From: [email-masked] (Chris Kantarjiev)
Date: 2 Dec 1996 19:20:28 GMT

The problem is access, or rather, access control. We'd like all the
rcm'ers out there to be able to put things onto the public web site, but
not allow all the crackers out there to use it for hiding and
distributing bootleg software or porn...

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From: [email-masked] (Tom Grant)
Date: 6 Dec 1996 15:39:04 -0700

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Chris Kantarjiev) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Chris Kantarjiev)
>Subject: Re: Substituting 1 picture for 1000 words
>Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:53:04 GMT

>Tom,

>If you've got the space, and since you seem to have a fast link to the
>net, perhaps we can collaborate. I have an idea and some space, would be
>willing to write some code, but have only a 28.8 link from the world to
>my web site.

>Here's the idea: set up an email address to which rcm'ers can mail
>MIME-encoded messages, including a binary file and a description. The
>mail is read by a program/script that deposits the pieces into a file on
>your disk, gins up a URL that points to it, and (this is important)
>posts a message to rcm with the text of the description and the author's
>email address.

>The quick among you will notice that this allows one to build up
>complete web pages from afar, incrementally, using the URLs that have
>been assigned (hmm, there's a patent in there...)

>The posting is important, to help keep track of abuse. If there's a
>posting every time a file gets stuck on the web site, people will notice
>abuse. Most public access FTP sites are quickly overwhelmed by one or
>both kinds of freeloaders: porn distributors, or crackers sharing
>bootleg software. I believe that this method will keep that kind of
>traffic down.

>If the traffic gets heavy, Tom, you can impose a retention limit on the
>files and delete them from time to time. 

>The goal is really low overhead for everyone involved, so this is an
>*easy* way to exchange files of various formats...

 I talked to the young lady that maintains our server and she said that
she would set up an upload directory called  "upload". Anyone can upload
anything into it. She also created a directory called RCM. Which can hold 
files posted from the RCM newsgroup. She told me I would have to screen 
each file manually and move it from the upload directory to the RCM directory.
Not a big problem, I dont think that there are going to be so many files as to 
turn it into a full time job or anything....
This is assuming that the users of this group are computer literate enough to 
upload using FTP software. If they are not, they need to learn how to do it 
anyway, it is a good thing to know how to do!
If they could upload a text file with the same name as the graphic that would 
be nice, and it would make it easier to make an index for the directory as 
well.

Would this work?  Will this work, I just checked and the directories are in 
place. There are even files in it already. Now if the man who sent me those 
pictures would just send me some text files to go with them.....

Do you think we can get away with zipping the files or should they be left 
uncompressed so that all platforms can use them?

Tom

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From: [email-masked] (Scott Logan)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 13:05:43 GMT

>uncompressed so that all platforms can use them?

This sounds great!  Now the pictures can be seen to go with the words.

I vote for zipping them, saves a bunch on connect time.  Even with
unlimited connect time from the ISP, some of us still pay for the
phone call.  Plus, I've got better things to do than sit and watch a
download in progress.  If they are zipped, we should also provide an
unzipping tool on the site for the various platforms.

Scott Logan
[email-masked]
www.loganact.com

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 8 Dec 1996 17:10:33 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Scott

>unzipping tool on the site for the various platforms.

Not sure but I suspect JPEG would compress equal or better than ZIP. That
way they are not platform specific, are they?

Peter

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From: [email-masked] (Filip M Gieszczykiewicz)
Date: 9 Dec 1996 03:25:03 GMT

>distributing bootleg software or porn...

Greetings. This is how a PROPERLY setup system works: there is an 
"incoming" directory which is world-write... every so many days
someone "privelaged" logs in and moves the files off to where 
they belong. Each upload comes with a ".rcm" file which describes
the main file, gives the uploader's name & signature & password,
and where they wish the file to go. I don't recommend an auto-
matic system (daemon) to do this as it usually leads to attempts
to exploit it and claim some sort of superiority on alt.2600 :-|

This is how, for example, the Linux FTP sites work. They have a
formal submit file called .lsm (Linux software map) which
contains info about the uploader and uploaded file. They have an
assigned "moderator" who takes care of this... There is also a
message board software which makes it possible to have a
WWW "chat room"... example-off-the-top-of-my-head:

http://www.htmlhelp.com/wwwboard/

and there are countless hundreds of similar setups. Then again,
the POINT here is a center for images and plans and that can
be taken care of with a simple combination of a WWW and FTP
site. Once files are FTP'eble, FTP-to-e-mail services can even
send files to those who are NOT on the www or have FTP.. I 
believe FIDO networks and BBSes fall under this category.

Sigh... this is more complicated than it needs to be. What you
need:

* WWW site with as little as 1MB of space (files stored below)
* FTP site with properly-setup incoming directory
  1) at least 10MB of space in several well-categorized
     directories
  2) privelaged-access to select-few people appointed by the
     group who would sweep the warzone /incoming for files
     with valid ".rcm" files - and dicards the rest. "Those
     there be the rulez".

Something along those lines can be set up for under $200/year.
Of course, we would need volunteers... I'm taking full-time
next term (back in college after ~4 years out...) so I can
just suggest things. Keeping up my own WWW site will be a
circus as it is...

Take care.

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 9 Dec 1996 21:16:02 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Garry Foster)
writes:

>It kinda hurts to say this but I agree with Peter.
>
>

<BG>

Peter

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From: ANDY POPKY <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 09:38:24 -0500

scott

zipped files can be dangerous
you never know what virus is lurking
in it, gets to be a pain
having to virus scan

regards
ap

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From: [email-masked] (Garry Foster)
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 13:35:46 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:

:In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Scott
:Logan) writes:

:>I vote for zipping them, saves a bunch on connect time.  Even with
:>unlimited connect time from the ISP, some of us still pay for the
:>phone call.  Plus, I've got better things to do than sit and watch a
:>download in progress.  If they are zipped, we should also provide an
:>unzipping tool on the site for the various platforms.
:>
:>

:Not sure but I suspect JPEG would compress equal or better than ZIP. That
:way they are not platform specific, are they?

:Peter

It would be a lot easier to leave graphics as graphics. 

Garry