Subject: TIG welding from dryer 220V outlet?

From: [email-masked] (Chris Stepanian)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 07:25:38 GMT

Hello;

I am interested in buying a TIG welder for use in welding some 
thin aluminum and steel tubing, specifically for bike frames.  
I've used TIG equipment before and am familiar with the
techniques; my specific question is whether it is possible
to run a small TIG machine like the Miller EconoTIG from
my household dryer plug (220V, 50 A).  The metals are 
not thick; steel about .030 or so and the aluminum maxing
out at .25 in. for some of the pieces and .060 for most of them.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Success/
failure stories? Any help is appreciated.

If replying by mail please respond to [email-masked] 
(I'm borrowing my roomate's newsreader.)  

Thanks,

Eliot

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From: Mark Winlund <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Dec 1996 13:15:45 GMT

Absolutely yes. A dryer oulet has more than enough power to do bike frames with tig. 
I have been on a 50 amp circuit for years. Even a 30 amp 220 would be enough for 
bike frames.  With aluminum over 1/4" you may start to have problems.

Regards, Mark

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From: [email-masked] (Jens)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:02:45 -0800

[email-masked] (Chris Stepanian) wrote:

>my household dryer plug (220V, 50 A).  

Check your breaker panel. More than likely your dryer circuit is a 30
amp circuit even though the plug may be rated higher.

>The metals are 

The Econo Tig will NOT be powerfull enough to work with 0.25 aluminum
no matter how much juice comes out of your dryer plug. I don't know
what the exact limits are for al but it's less than steel because of
the high heat conductivity. The Econo Tig will be ok for the 0.030
steel but I would be reluctant to try it on a dryer line (50 amp would
be ok though).

Disclaimer: I have not run the Econo Tig - just seen it demonstrated
and was astounded how useless it was on aluminum of any appreciable
size.

Jens

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From: [email-masked] (Garfield)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 17:46:15 GMT

On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 19:02:45 -0800, [email-masked] (Jens) wrote:

>no matter how much juice comes out of your dryer plug.

I shall chime in along with Jens (not that he needs any chimes, heh).

My dryer plug was run with same wire and breaker size as my stove, and
IS 50A just like Chris. With my Lincoln SQ175, OR my Millermatic 250
Mig, I can run steel continuously with NO problem. When I do smaller
assemblies of 1/4 Alum plate (with the SQ only, of course), I am only
using max amps for a bit at the start and then pedal down to control the
puddle expansion as the thing heats up, and AM able to weld using this
technique, but it's gotta be right on the hairy edge (not of the SQ, but
the breaker). I CAN pop the breaker if I dial in high amps and try to
run a bead on the surface of a BIG piece of plate alum where I have to
keep the heat on for a long time, but that goes without saying. If you
are only doing runs of less than say 2", on smallish assemblies that are
going to come up to heat fast, I think you'll be fine. Any of the Alum
tubing stuff you would be fine. The SQ is especially good on alum tube,
given it's continuous pedal control. You can control the heat on the
fly.

I would guess that the problem Jens saw with the EconoTig has more to do
with the arc stabilization (it uses High Voltage Spike technology, not
High Frequency like the SQ); OTOH, I do know folks do Alum with the
EcTig, so I dunno for sure what the problem might be.

Garfield

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From: [email-masked] (Jens)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 00:08:31 -0800

[email-masked] (Garfield) wrote:

>IS 50A just like Chris.

Interesting ... up here (BC, Canada) the electrical code calls for a
30 amp breaker ... oh well different ruling bodies I guess.

>EcTig, so I dunno for sure what the problem might be.

I was considering to purchase the Econo Tig at one time. The
demonstration I was referring to happened at the dealer and he was
trying to weld two small pieces of AL together. He would sit over one
area for what seems like an eternity and produce what seemed like a
cold weld at the end. I was utterly amazed on how poorly this thing
welded that itty bitty piece of aluminum. Now granted, I am used to a
Miller 250A mig and do mostly steel so everything proceeds just about
as fast as I can accurately go and I might have been influenced by
that but the overall impression I got from the EcoTig was that it is a
cute little unit/toy that is great for thin stuff and even a little
bigger stuff in steel but is useless with heavier aluminum. Needless
to say I passed on it and if I ever win in the lottery I will get
myself a Lincoln Square Wave 255.

My 0.00002c worth ...

Jens

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From: [email-masked] (Jens)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 21:38:56 -0800

[email-masked] (Ernie Leimkuhler) wrote:

>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
>(Jens) wrote:
>5 in. for some of the pieces and .060 for most of them.
>> 
>> the high heat conductivity.
>> 
>
>Correction here 
>I have been welding 1/4" - 1/2" alluminum for the last 3 years with my econotig.
>Now to be specific, Econotigs don't reallly like thick aluminum, but if
>you takes steps it works just fine.
>The first step is to run a helium / argon mix. This boosts the heat
>considerably and also makes up for the lack of a true high frequency by
>cleaning the weld with the higher heat.
>If the piece is really thick then simply preheat to about 300-400 deg F. I
>have welded pieces of 1" square bar aluminum with very clean results.
>If I had my druthers I would probably choose the newer Lincoln square wave
>175, but 3 years ago I had no other options.

I stand corrected  ... silly me assumed that the dealer trying to sell
me the rig knew what he was doing .....   ooooops

(btw,the demonstration used straight argon)

Jens

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From: [email-masked] (Ernie Leimkuhler)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 01:33:36 -0700

Correction here 

Test drive before buying anything.

> The Econo Tig will be ok for the 0.030

Correction again.
The econotig is difficult to control on any materiel thinner than about
0.045" ( 18ga. ) especially on steel since it lacks a low setting for DC.

Also the machine will run on a 50amp circuit, but it is actually rated for
52 amps max draw. I have mine running on a 60 amp breaker.

-- 
Best of luck

*********************************************************************
                            Ernie Leimkuhler
                   STAGESMITH PRODUCTIONS
                     Custom Metal Fabrication
       ABANA       AWS        SCA        IATSE Local 15/488
                        Renton, Washington, USA
*********************************************************************
" 'Reverse primary thrust, Marvin,' that's what they say to me, 'open airlock number three, Marvin. Marvin, can you pick up that piece of paper?' Can I pick up that piece of paper! Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to ...." - Douglas_Adams

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From: [email-masked] (Reckless)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 07:02:52 GMT

>Garfield

Agree with the above, though I swapped my 50A breaker in the subpanel
for a 100A (it's just a shutoff switch now) and use the 60A subfeed
breaker in the main panel to protect the circuit (all the wiring is
big enough so its safe).  I have a Lincoln SQ175 and have popped the
60A breaker, but only when welding 5/16" aluminum at full power for
fairly long periods of time (several minutes straight).

You want to check that your dryer plug isn't a 30A feed, if it is I
doubt you'll be able to get past 75-100A of welding current.  Fine for
tubing but that 1/4 plate won't happen.

BTW I can recommend the Lincoln unit (I'm very happy with mine),
though I haven't used the Econotig unit.

-Reckless

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From: [email-masked] (Dave Keith)
Date: 16 Dec 1996 20:10:27 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] says...

<good comments edited,  but then you've likely already read them>

>tubing but that 1/4 plate won't happen.

I have my ancient Marquette buzz box set up to plug into my 220v / 30A
dryer outlet.  The machine calls for a 40A circuit.  Its top setting
is 225A.  I testing the machine and ran 150A without popping my breaker.
Didn't try 175,  but my calculations suggest I'd blow the breaker.

Just my experience.

Dave