Subject: AN OIL PUMPING BEARIN

From: [email-masked] (J.p. Wieser)
Date: 03 Nov 95 01:49:00

-=> Quoting Jonathan M. Elson to All <=-

     In re: South Bend lathe headstock bearings:

 JME> 1.  The bearings can't be cast iron, that's the headstock casting. 
 JME> The  bearings should be babbit metal, or babbit on brass.

     Ah, perhaps not on a South Bend, but...Ian Bradley's fine 
book, _The Amateur's Workshop_ (ISBN 0 85242 482 5), tells us 
that:

     "The [Myford] ML10...lathe has been pruned of any item that 
would...raise the price of the basic machine to an unacceptable 
level...the headstock spindle is hardened and ground and runs 
directly in the iron casting of the headstock, an arrangement that 
should provide bearings having long working life if experience 
with cast iron bearings, extending over many years, is any guide."

     There seem to have been a lot of old beasts with cast iron 
bearings; enough that Lindsay's reprint of the 1925 _Popular 
Mechanics Lathe Handbook No. 1_, which arrived here today, states, 
on page 82:

     "REMOVING HARD SPOTS ON LATHE SPINDLE

     "Mechanics who have operated lathes with cast-iron bearings 
appreciate the difficulty of dressing up a worn lathe spindle. The 
small particles of iron which adhere to the surface of the steel 
are so hard that a Swiss file cannot cut them. A small chisel is 
unsatisfactory for this work, and grinding off the spots with a 
portable grinder gives poor results. A good method is to lap off 
the hard spots with a medium-grain oilstone. When almost down to 
the spindle surface, use a fine-grain stone to finish. A fine 
bearing surface results, particularly if the stone is rubbed 
around the circumference."

     There. A cure for a problem you never even knew about...

     Another machine in which you will often find steel-on-cast- 
iron bearings is in sewing machines; the main head casting of the 
machine is usually bored directly to take the hardened and ground 
bearing surfaces of the steel "main shaft," or whatever you call 
it...

 JME> 2.  Find out if a Timken-roller bearing version of this lathe was
 JME> made, and get a conversion kit, or a complete headstock with Timken
 JME> roller bearings.  This is what I will do soon on my Atlas 10" lathe.  I
 JME> can live with the oil leakage, but constantly having to re-shim the
 JME> bearing caps to keep the spindle aligned with the bed is driving me
 JME> nuts!  I move the chuck-side cap forward or backward, then clamp it
 JME> with the clamp bolts until the spindle is true.  Then I have to do it
 JME> again every so often.

     I have an Atlas H36 sitting here in hulk form. Nice to know 
what fun it'll be <roar>...but seriously, your advice is very well 
taken. The bearings show some wear, but are in decent shape 
considering. I will soon be picking up another 10" Atlas for 
parts, and I'm hoping that it has a Timken-equipped headstock. As 
far as I can see, headstocks are not available at all from 
Clausing. Will you be getting a complete headstock from somewhere 
else, or is there a "conversion kit" on the market for these?

     How much is your machine used before you have to re-adjust 
the bearings? My application is strictly one-man, home-shop hobby 
madness for madness' sake. :-)

     By the way, if you have a conventional factory countershaft 
assembly, I'd appreciate knowing:

     * The O.D. of the motor pulley (Part # 10-428)
     * The O.D. of the large, outboard pulley on the countershaft 
(Part # 560-060)
     * The diameters of the step pulley on the countershaft (Part 
# 10-80)

     According to the parts list, these parts are common to both 
the vertical- and horizontal-type countershaft assemblies.

     The countershaft assembly for my machine is probably still 
screwed securely to a workbench in some chicken shed...you know 
how that goes. Therefore, I'll be fabricating what I need. I 
already have a 1/2 horse, 110 V., capacitor-start drip-proof motor 
that should do the trick, and a nice set of 3/4" bore self- 
aligning bearings in pillow blocks; if I can find out the 
diameters of the pulleys, I'll be able to match the speed tables 
in the handbook.

... LIBERTARIAN- 1-800-682-1776
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
|Fidonet:  J.p. Wieser 8:8/0
|Internet: [email-masked]
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

---

From: [email-masked] (Jonathan M. Elson)
Date: 6 Nov 1995 05:33:59 GMT

J.p. Wieser ([email-masked]) wrote:
:  -=> Quoting Jonathan M. Elson to All <=-

:  JME> 2.  Find out if a Timken-roller bearing version of this lathe was
:  JME> made, and get a conversion kit, or a complete headstock with Timken
:  JME> roller bearings.  This is what I will do soon on my Atlas 10" lathe.  I
:  JME> can live with the oil leakage, but constantly having to re-shim the
:  JME> bearing caps to keep the spindle aligned with the bed is driving me
:  JME> nuts!  I move the chuck-side cap forward or backward, then clamp it
:  JME> with the clamp bolts until the spindle is true.  Then I have to do it
:  JME> again every so often.

:      I have an Atlas H36 sitting here in hulk form. Nice to know 
: what fun it'll be <roar>...but seriously, your advice is very well 
: taken. The bearings show some wear, but are in decent shape 
: considering. I will soon be picking up another 10" Atlas for 
: parts, and I'm hoping that it has a Timken-equipped headstock. As 
: far as I can see, headstocks are not available at all from 
: Clausing. Will you be getting a complete headstock from somewhere 
: else, or is there a "conversion kit" on the market for these?

Clausing referred me to 'John Boegeman' who has made molds for some
of the parts of the Atlas, and remanufactures them.  I bought a quick-
change gearbox from him for $500 when I had an accident with the
carriage feed and did some major damage to the gear train.  The rebuilt
quick-change box looked NEW!  It still is visibly cleaner and newer looking
than the rest of the lathe.  He replaced all the bearings, and replaced
a few worn gears - it runs very well.  He has quoted me a price of
$250 for a rebuilt headstock with timken bearings - he replaces the
bearings and does any other refurbishment needed.  My lathe is an
H42, according to Clausing.  I have bought the 'scroll' which closes
the carriage nut from Clausing, and after I got their parts guide
I found out that someone took the bed wipers off, and ordered replacements
for them, too.

:      How much is your machine used before you have to re-adjust 
: the bearings? My application is strictly one-man, home-shop hobby 
: madness for madness' sake. :-)

Well, it seems that I don't need to readjust it more than once every few
years, but I think there is some wander in the spindle, and the oil loss
is a real problem.  I just about locked up the spindle 2 weeks ago,
because the oil cup ran dry - which happens every 4-5 minutes at high
spindle speed.

:      By the way, if you have a conventional factory countershaft 
: assembly, I'd appreciate knowing:

:      * The O.D. of the motor pulley (Part # 10-428)

Standing in front of the lathe, the left sheave is 4.5", the right -
closest to the motor is 1.75.

:      * The O.D. of the large, outboard pulley on the countershaft 
: (Part # 560-060)

The drive pulley on the countershaft is left 7.5", right 9.25"

:      * The diameters of the step pulley on the countershaft (Part 
: # 10-80)

The step pulleys from the left are 6", 5", 4", 3"
The motor is 1/2 Hp, 1725 RPM.  The pulley measurements are from the
outside diameter of the pulley, not the pitch diameter that the belt runs at.