Subject: Re: Fair price for Atlas shaper?

From: George Edwards <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 10:57:38 -0600

Dennis A. Armstrong wrote:
> 
> These were very popular in the 1950's before the mill-drills started
> showing up on the market.  I can recall nearly every issue of Popular
> Mechanics and Popular Science having advertisements for them.. I don't know
> where they all went, because they rarely show up on the market now.  The
> last one I saw for sale at a car show was $450, and was nice and clean.
> You didn't say what this one was priced at, but if in real nice condition,
> it could be worth up to $600
> --
> Dennis A. Armstrong
> [email-masked]
> 
> [email-masked] wrote in article
> <[email-masked]>...
> > What's a fair price for an Atlas shaper in top condition? I know of one
> > locally, looks showroom new. Stroke appears to be about 7 inches.
> >
> > Pete
> >
I paid $500 for a 7inch Atlas a few months ago....top mechanical
condition with vise, motor, etc.  Have seen them advertized from $400 to
$600 but never got to them in time to see them.  They are getting harder
and harder to find.

George

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From: [email-masked](Dave Ficken)
Date: 9 Dec 1996 01:06:31 GMT

>locally, looks showroom new. Stroke appears to be about 7 inches.

The machine should be worth between $500 and $800 depending on what you
percieve to be excellent condition. Keep in mind that vises for these
shapers as well as the toolholders are rare and expensive. I was
offered $200 for an original Atlas shaper vise in mint condition.
Unfortunately, I had already promised it to the guy buying the shaper.
Also, Atlas made a nice maple top stand for the shaper that is worth
extra money. 

Dave Ficken
Meridian Machinery
http://hre.com/meridian

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From: Roger M Weppelman <[email-masked]>
Date: 9 Dec 1996 14:42:08 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:
>What's a fair price for an Atlas shaper in top condition? 
>
>Pete

I paid $400 locally for a 7 inch Atlas including stand but missing the vice and 
one of the two miter gears which position the stroke. Aside from the gear problem, I 
would describe it as in ok (but not great) shape.

Roger Weppelman

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 10 Dec 1996 02:26:35 GMT

Thanks to everybody who has replied on the Atlas shaper so far. I'm still
collecting data. I've talked to the dealer, who agrees that the
consignment seller thinks it's worth too much, but they don't know what
it's worth either so if I present a range of prices they will probably
deal. All the prices mentioned here seem pretty consistent with one
another -- $1K for absolute top end with lots of goodies, $800 for a
pretty good machine, and $300 for a beater. 

I don't know much about shaper operations. I guess I'll get vol. 2 of the
Moltrecht book. What exactly is the "spline tool" somebody mentioned? I
don't think it's in there, unless that's another name for a keyway tool.
There is one tool included that appears to be like a normal tool except
it's extended outward, sort of an L-shape, which I guess is the keyway
tool. 

Does anybody have a manual and/or parts list for this? Is Atlas still in
business (absorbed by Delta or something?)

I'm off to the local library tonight, there were a few shaper articles in
the 1950s in Popular Mechanix. Looking through the Readers' Guide to
Periodical Literature, you can see that almost nothing came out after
about 1960. Interesting...

Pete

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From: [email-masked] (Scott Logan)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:27:59 GMT

>business (absorbed by Delta or something?)

Atlas was bought by Clausing, though I don't know if they have any
info on the Shaper.

Clausing Industries  (Clausing Colchester, Atlas Lathes)
811 Eisenhower Dr.
PO Box 877
Goshen, IN  46526
Tel. 219-533-0371
Fax  219-533-0403
http://www.gardnerweb.com/imtscd/profiles/clausing/clausing.html

Scott Logan
[email-masked]
www.loganact.com

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 10 Dec 1996 15:00:27 GMT

Scott Logan replies

info on the Shaper.

Duh... I knew that (thump). 

I did some digging in the library (Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature
is a wonderful tool...) and found two interesting articles on shapers (the
metal kind, not the wood kind; today "shaper" almost universally means
upside down routers bolted to the underside of a board). Popular Mechanics
had two articles based on the Atlas 7" shaper, first in Feb 1954, p. 234:
"Know your Metal Shaper" by Sam Brown is a mini-textbook for shaper setup
and use. "Contour Work with a Metal Shaper", same author, Popular
Mechanics, Oct 54, p. 219, shows a few more things you can do with one.
Now I want one...

Pete

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 10 Dec 1996 16:30:16 GMT

I just called Clausing. They have parts lists for the shapers (not that
anything is still available, mind you) but say they were shipped without
user manuals. Does anybody have any other manufacturer's documentation for
these critters? An accessory list/catalog would be nice too; they must
have had some goodies to go with it. Seems to me they must have had a user
manual of some sort. 

I'd be glad to pay for a photocopy to see what I'm getting into here.

Pete

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 10 Dec 1996 17:01:52 GMT

>it's extended outward, sort of an L-shape, which I guess is the keyway

Only one thing you really need to know about shapers, keep your hands out
of the way. You will be amazed at how far past the end of the set srtroke
they can advance to chase carelessly placed hands and fingers. Chomp,
gone.

Peter
Who's true love is a shaper.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 10 Dec 1996 20:29:42 GMT

I have a SB 7" shaper fpr sale, if anyone is interested.  It does not have
a vise, but it will hold .0005 tolerance.  Excellent condition.  Located
near Oklahoma City.
Price $800

Cecil in OK

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From: [email-masked] (Michael Horgan [Lughaid])
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:27:46 GMT

Pete, take a look at my web site at
http://members.aol.com/lughaid/index.htm
for more shaper info and plans.
Also, I recently got some e-mail from a guy who found plans to convert
this particular shaper to a mill, as well.  Looking for those now.

>Mechanics, Oct 54, p. 219, shows a few more things you can do with one.

Michael Horgan ([email-masked])
http://users.aol.com/Lughaid

---

From: "w.j.ward" <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Dec 1996 04:21:28 GMT

...

> Mechanics, Oct 54, p. 219, shows a few more things you can do with one.

I'd like one too.  But, as other posts in this thread indicate, they're
hard to find.  Locally, there is a used industrial tool reseller.  They
have plenty multi-ton behemoths; shapers that could easily poke holes
through busses.  They have lathes 50 ft. long.  But no little shapers.

Hey, maybe it's time for a shaper revival.

-- 
God ==> Man ==> State

W.J.Ward, Redford Twp., Michigan

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From: [email-masked] (Fitch R. Williams)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 05:46:24 GMT

>Who's true love is a shaper.

They can follow you around to places you aint even been yet.
And they will bite the hand that feeds them with out
growling first!

Best advice - After turning it on, don't touch anything but
the off switch till all motion has totally stopped.
Although I'm told there are techniques ... which I am
chicken to try so far.

Fitch
Who still has all 8 fingers and two thumbs fully functional,
but just barely missed donating a thumb to a shaper when a
youngster.  It was a *painful* lesson.  I am still using the
same shaper  42 years later though.  Older, wiser, flexing
fingers, checking them hourely, watching the floor for signs
......

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 7 Dec 1996 03:47:54 GMT

Pete

---

From: [email-masked] (Peter Brooks)
Date: 9 Dec 1996 19:35:56 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:
: What's a fair price for an Atlas shaper in top condition? I know of one
: locally, looks showroom new. Stroke appears to be about 7 inches.

I paid (on the high end) $1000 for a shaper with tooling and a table,
but it seems to be in excellent shape.  I've seen some prices elsewhere
(like in Michigan) where they go down to $300.  Mine was in California
and I got mine from a used-tool seller.

Lovely machine.  I'll use mine as often as I can.

Pete Brooks

---

From: Suzette Perry <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:36:14 -0500

w.j.ward wrote:> 
> hard to find.

I see your in Michigan. I am not sure where Redford Twp. is but I live
in Lansing and there is a 7" South Bend shaper in the paper here for
$500 and it includes the vise, tool holder and all guards. I would buy
it myself but I already have a 7" Atlas so if your really looking to buy
one...

Brian Perry

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From: "Mike Henry" <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Dec 1996 16:35:36 GMT

Please pardon the ignorance, but what does one use a shaper for?  It sounds
like something I'd like to have <g>.

Peter Brooks <[email-masked]> wrote in article
<[email-masked]>...

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From: Paul Pierce <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:44:07 -0700

> like something I'd like to have <g>.

See Lindsay's catalog for shaper books.   Also he has Dave Gingery's
book
on building your own shaper, lathe, drill press, horizontal mill, etc...

-- 
Paul in AJ AZ  NRA Endowment Member

Checkout the Metal Web News at:
new address (11/23/96)

http://www.ten.k12.tn.us/~wgray

Checkout the FAQ at:
http://PLAINS.UWYO.EDU/%7Emetal/index.html
Metalworking Books

LINDSAY PUBLICATIONS

[email-masked]

P. O. Box 538  HC2
BRADLEY IL 60915--0538

Phone:  1-815-935-5353
FAX:    1-815-935-5477

---

From: [email-masked] (Fitch R. Williams)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 06:21:56 GMT

>like something I'd like to have <g>.

A shaper is a machine for planing metal.  It operates by
holding the metal fixed to a table and then passing the tool
across it using linear back and forth strokes.  The work is
fet sideways to present uncut surface, or vertically upward
when performing tasks like cutting keyways.

Usually they are capable of getting surfaces really flat.
My shaper will get s surface flatter than my milling machine
will, but probably not as smooth (due more to its operators
lack of cutter grinding skill than anything else).

A shaper is a "fundamental" sort of tool.  It makes its
stroke and gouges the metal off.  It will also gouge
anything that gets in  the way of its ram.  The fact that it
starts each cut by hitting the edge of the work at full
speed can lead to some spectacular "wrecks" if you are not
careful.

But they are also almost mesmerizing to watch work.  they
tend to have some entertaining almost Rube Goldberg
articulating works to operate the cross feed.  My South Bend
has a cross feed that adjusts in "quantums" of .002"/stroke.

Fitch
Wondering if this was a serious question, or I was just had,
again ...

---

From: Rick Cook <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Dec 1996 09:23:57 GMT

Mike Henry wrote:
>Please pardon the ignorance, but what does one use a shaper for?  It
>sounds like something I'd like to have <g>.
>
Think of a plane for metal. :-) Or a mechanized cold chisel.

A shaper will do a lot of the stuff a milling machine will do, only not as
fast. What's more the cutter is usually a simple device, like a lathe tool,
not a mill.

--RC

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From: "Dennis A. Armstrong" <[email-masked]>
Date: 7 Dec 96 18:37:00 GMT

---

From: [email-masked](Dave Ficken)
Date: 10 Dec 1996 23:27:31 GMT

>I'd be glad to pay for a photocopy to see what I'm getting into here.

Pete,
 Some of the acessories for the atlas shaper can be seen in some of
their early sales brochures. I believe I have one that shows lathes,
mills, shapers all in one brochure. If you or anyone else wants a
photocopy, I will be glad to do it- provided you can wait till the new
year as I am real busy moving my store.
 Also, for a great book on Shaper operations, don't miss "How to Run A
Shaper" by Southbend.
 Don't worry about wether or not Clausing has parts available. You can
find them in the used market. I think I probably have enough parts
floating around to build one from scratch.
 Regards,
 Dave Ficken
 Meridian Machinery
 http://hre.com/meridian

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From: [email-masked] (Peter Brooks)
Date: 11 Dec 1996 18:36:49 GMT

Peter Brooks ([email-masked]) wrote:

: I paid (on the high end) $1000 for a shaper with tooling and a table,
: but it seems to be in excellent shape.  I've seen some prices elsewhere
: (like in Michigan) where they go down to $300.  Mine was in California

Following up my own post:  I thought I paid on the high end (maybe even got
taken), but after what Dave said about the vise, I think I got a fair deal:
complete shaper (well, missing the square-shaft wrench/handle, but I can
work around that) with vise, indexing rig and several tool holders to go along
with the shaper and table.  Rewired mine to 220V and it runs nicely.

Pete Brooks

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From: [email-masked] (Russ Kepler)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 04:18:51 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>and I got mine from a used-tool seller.

I got mine for $250 - great shape, little to no hours, vise & tooling
(inside keyway tool, etc.)  All I'm missing is the doohicky that
helps support the table and the manual that would help me name that
doohicky.

-- 
Russ Kepler                                              [email-masked]

                      Please Don't Feed the Engineers

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From: [email-masked] (Phil Langefeld)
Date: 16 Dec 1996 17:20:05 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] 
says...
>have had some goodies to go with it. Seems to me they must have had a user

I have an AAMCO 7" shaper that I got last summer for less than some of the 
prices suggested here, but it was part of a package deal from a family friend. 
 I have a parts list, accessory list, and what they might have called a 
manual, but I'm not sure that it's any better than what Clausing offers.  The 
total package is 30 pp., but only 4 pp represents any sort of instruction.

Phil Langefeld