Subject: Anarschit vs Marxism

From: [email-masked] (iddd)
Date: 6 Apr 1996 03:14:04 -0500

[ Article crossposted from alt.society.anarchy ]
[ Author was iddd ]
[ Posted on 1 Apr 1996 10:24:25 -0500 ]

[ Article crossposted from alt.politics.socialism.trotsky ]
[ Author was iddd ]
[ Posted on 1 Apr 1996 09:53:27 -0500 ]

You are such a hypocrite Mr. Stein and a disgrace to the Jewish peoplefor 
Miamonides was a dilaectical thinker as was Locke and Thomas Paine and 
Socrates and Thomas Jefferson and many GREAT AMERICANS..only in this case 
you denigrate the oppression for you have only excuses for yourself..Yes 
the seeds of Capitalism's ruin will be sown by Capitalism itself look at 
Victorian England the American Colonies,,,the Mexican debt crisis(1996)US 
debt WOrld War I and II...McCarthyism. and the civil War of 1861.YOU 
state the following which I further rebut as you are representitive of 
the modern irresponsible groups of people who politically I describes as 
Modern cut-throats who act as priviteers nothing more and where the 
pirates as the surge of the seven seas no longers exist to thrreatened 
civilized countries and peoples so will you and the corporations of the 
world.

JS> I don't have much use for dialectical reasoning.  I am one of 
JS>those "empiricists" that Lenin warned you about. The dialectical method
JS>is flawed, because in order to make the "categories" come outright, one
JS>usually has to assume what is trying to be proved. Thus Marx assumed
JS>that socialism would follow capitalism, because of capitalism's
JS>"contradictions", although there is no real scientific justification for
JS>this assumption. Capitalism could just as well be followed by something
JS>else, perhaps even worse, say fascism or Stalinism, or environmental
JS>catastrophe. It also does not follow then that capitalism is somehow
JS>laying the groundwork for socialism and is thus, a "historical necessity".
JS> The reason I said Marxist theory can lead to some political opportunism
JS>is that if you assume that capitalism is a necessary stage which society 
JS>must go through to develop the means of production to the point where
JS>socialism is viable, then it only follows that a good marxist might
JS>under certain circumstances take the side of the capitalists against
JS>the workers. By developing the means of production, the capitalists
JS>are supposedly laying the ground for their own destruction. So even
JS>if workers suffer in the short term, in the long term they will 
JS>benefit by the earlier arrival of socialism.:

In Jeff Stein's lengthy pontificating he first denounced the dialectical 
process then proceded in pretense to enlighten us by mean I suppose he 
would claim as rational logical and sensible. Without going into 
theslanderous accusations which are bandied about I wonder if thinks it 
proper that I dare him; As to how such arguement as his could be 
formulatedconstructed and based to be made possible with out the use 
(though opportunist and self serving byy him and his part) of a dialectal 
means which is attempted in application the material conditions which 
exist?Even Bourgeios society uses dialectics though towards different 
ends and based on different perceptions of History I reject the pop 
theories which he and others use taking out of context and defering 
issues on the basis of a false perception of chaos random events 
subjective expressionisticstates said to be existing in nature and as 
such are the luxurious choices for the most part available for the most 
part to those who can afford such luxuries.As a poor person my life's 
choices are determined for me. What schools I will go to what a I will 
eat what I will wear entertainment and often what hours and friends I 
will keep.Mister Stein you can not decry the logical basis and role 
Nature plays in the universe it detmines that we must walk with our feet 
firmly planted on the grounds without assistance though you wish your 
head to be floated ten feet off the ground like a "Cheshire cat" in 
creations even Alice in wonderland did not reveal. All science uses 
dialects! Even the best well known metaphysists claims they can prove 
what they state but everyone knows what's snake oil and you represent not 
an innocent party but a salesman. I don't care how many virtual reality 
you computer can creat they and you and that PC are grounded in a reality 
in the material world if the juice is cut you're out and so you are only 
allowed to state what you say because at present you are allowed to not 
because of any great unexplanable set of circumstances.If you wish to 
state there is no basis except one's opinion in argumentthen say say for 
your self first laugh at yourself and don't belittle those who try and do 
a lot more than talk.Mr Stein is also slandering the dead by calling 
Comrade Karl Marx an Anti-SEmite while the NAZI BASTARDS denigrate him as 
a JEW the two both are sick or maybe the same.

P.O.Box 181 Knickerbocker Station
Manhattan, New York 10002

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From: Melissa Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: 7 Apr 1996 09:13:00 GMT

PLEASE remove alt.support.depression from your followups... thanks.

Melissa
--------------------------------------------
The fundamentals of being human don't change
with the labels we apply to them.