(11) Wed 22 Jun 94 19:33 By: Jim Coleman To: Steve Erickson Re: Energy sources ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 1135 @MSGID: 1:324/127 53a767b2 @TID: FastEcho 1.40 7683 -SE> Are you doing any tinkering or experimenting? I have -SE> done a little and there was a fellow here in Anchorage that put on some -SE> very impressive (to me) demonstrations. Ever seen a -SE> ball-bearing electric motor? That does sound promising. Although I've never done any "tinkering" myself per se, the subject is of interest to me. --- * Origin: Computer Castle, Newton NH 1-603-382-3471 (1:324/127) @PATH: 324/127 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (12) Thu 23 Jun 94 5:54 By: Darwin Teague To: Scott Miller Re: Electric Vehicle - Fiero ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2255/60 5785f60e @PID: JCQWK 2.01 IV beta 02059401 RH> SM> I noticed the thread about electric vehicle heaters and was RH> SM> wondering if anyone "out there" has converted a Pontiac Fiero? RH> SM> We're nearing completion and would like to chat with others who RH> SM> have converted a Fiero. We'd be interested in chatting with RH> SM> people who have converted other vehicles as well... I have a set of plans from Mother Earth News. Is this what you used to guide you? What did you use for a motor? That was what stopped me from doing one, trying to find an airplane generator, or whatever it was... It used the transmission, etc. Seems it used a small gas engine to help recharge the batteries. ---- Dat Bull Shit --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: In Through The Out Door! BBS (317)282-6861 (317)282-1311 (1:2255/60) @PATH: 2255/60 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (13) Fri 24 Jun 94 0:07 By: Scott Miller To: Ron Hammer Re: EV - Fiero ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RH->I would like to find out about your converion. I think the Idea of RH->a Converted Fiero is a good Idea small light weight car. I was RH->wounder about what you did and where you got your info about it RH->Ron Well, we got the info from alot of different books & magazines. We never found a book which had step-by-step plans for converting a Fiero, though. As of now, we have all the ICE parts removed, the electric motor mounted to the transmission, and brackets for the batteries in place... We still need a charger and controller. When it's ready, we're going to keep track of the vital info... Maybe I'll post it. So far, you're the only person who has replied. I was hoping that someone had actually converted one themselves and could provide their range, top speed, etc... Scott * SLMR 2.1a * Why don't bookstores get "looted"? --- FreeMail/GrayQwkMail 2.1 * Origin: * The H.O.M.E. BBS (317)539-6579 * (1:231/710) @PATH: 231/710 120 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (14) Wed 22 Jun 94 8:16 By: Elvis Hargrove To: All Re: off-the-grid-computers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 6b0a61e4 Since we've been discussing the subject of computer control of various off-the-grid devices, it occurred to me that I might be in possession of some uniquely useful display monitors for such applications. Especially applicable to CoCo's and early Commodores, I just happened to discover quite a cache of little DEC monochrome monitors especially designed to run off 12 volts DC. I of course immediately rigged one to work in the car and was pleasantly surprised to find it functioned perfectly as a mobil display. A friend is putting one in his pickup. THese are 11" diagonal measure, both green and amber available, and are built typically DEC anvil-strong with special copper internal shielding. Hook up with a single DB-15 connector for power and video and will work in ANY weird position. As a special thanks for the enjoyment I've derived from this echo, I'll make them available on a first come first served basis to members of this conference for only 35 bucks each, checked out and guaranteed working, FOB McAllen, Texas. BTW, this is not an offer to sell, so much as it is an offer to share my good fortune, so I hope it's not considered as a commercial endeavor. It's not intended as such, since most people don't have access to such weird things as I sometimes come across. SO, lest we arouse the ire of the moderator, if you're interested in one and have the ability, please just NETMAIL me, and let's not clog up the echo. (Unless of course Don wants one. I guess he can say so publicly if he likes. ) BTW#2, I started work on a small pilot model of "The Shadow Knows" PV array tracker, and I'll keep everyone aprised of of the bugs in the design. I'm sure as Jim D says there'll be "some." Maybe I'll be able to run my Vic-20 off it..... How many thermocouples in series does it take in your woodstove to run the CoCo Jim? Did you know that the pilot-pickle out of a gas water heater makes a great EGT sensor for leaning small engines? ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (15) Thu 16 Jun 94 16:35 By: Greg Luckett To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:130/507.0 2e00b774 @TID: FastEcho 1.40 7775 -=> Quoting Malcolm Stebbins to Bill Basford <=- MS> building about as efficiently as burning the fuel in a MS> boiler and circulating steam. Soooo, an engine was just MS> about as good at producing heat from fuel as a steam boiler MS> plus piping, etc. was!! Good news, huh? Without the piping, etc, how was the heat distributed to the building? Ducts? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 OS/2 --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Earth Club (817)465-9193 or (817)465-1941 (1:130/507) @PATH: 130/507 511 55 124/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (16) Fri 24 Jun 94 14:25 By: Jim Fitzsimmons To: Ken Bridges Re: Thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:153/9115.0 2e0b252c @REPLY: 1:325/802.5 e0814523 Hello Ken, Thank-you very much for the info for Homepower via the Internet.I am hoping to make use of it in the near future.Thanks again.. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Blue Sky's BBS (Zulu Hours Only) (1:153/9115) @PATH: 153/9115 918 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (17) Fri 24 Jun 94 16:01 By: Rod Satonica To: All Re: Ergy Saving H2o Softener ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:238/300.0@fidonet 2e0b498c Hi all; An associate popped in the other day and gave me a fax back number (1/414/639-6595 extension 2108) so, I called from my fax phone. I got 7 pages of documentation which included chemistry forumula's. For all I know it could be a receipe to a nuclear bomb. It is SUPPOSED to work for home, dairy, and industry. If this works it is really quite a news worthy item. I was told that LA County, California banned salt water softeners and they are replacing them with this. As for me I don't have a water softener and this looked like an economical alternative. The literature says it sells for $699 and all you do is plug it in a wall socket and wrap a wire around the water line coming in your house 22 times. I think I could handle that. The literature has all kinds of savings figures, testimonials, and the likes. It also has a statement that leads me to believe that it really does what it says; "The ScaleBan will treat calcium, limescale, hardness only. If you suffer from any other poor water quality conditions such as: iron, rust, sulfur, manganese, copper, pH too acidic, pH too basic, sediments, bad taste, bad odors, etc., this device is not for you!" It looks good to me so I thought I would throw it out here and see if anyone else has heard of it or better yet, if anyone else has purchased one. I understand it is being talked about on America Online, Compuserve, and the Internet. Please, let me know if anyone has any additional information on this product. Thanks rds --- þ SLMR 2.1a þ If at first you don't succeed, cry, cry again. --- RBBSMail v18.1 * Origin: The Twilight Zone BBS*Auburndale (715) 652-2758 (1:238/300.0) @PATH: 238/300 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (18) Thu 23 Jun 94 23:58 By: Richard O'Donovan To: Ken Finney Re: reflector material for solar cooking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 3:632/376.0 2e0994ee @REPLY: 1:343/70 539add90 Hi! I may be off track here, I've only just caught this echo, but a cheap way of making a big parabolic reflector is to use space-blanket style material over an air tight vessel of some description, then just evacuate some of the air. You can alter your focal length depending on the size of the drum, and of course how much pressure your material can take, although the typical space blankets are pretty tough. Hope that's of some use to you. Toodles. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Permaculture 1 BBS * Northcote_Aust * +61-3-482-2942 (3:632/376) @PATH: 632/376 711/431 401 712/515 105/42 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (19) Fri 24 Jun 94 17:10 By: Cloyce Osborn To: All Re: NiFe batteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Folks, does anybody have any information on the Nickel-Iron (NiFe) batteries used by railroads for backup power to power their crossing lights, etc? I just fell heir to several of them (which can be series-paralleled to 12V quite nicely) and was wondering about their discharge characteristics, capacity, quirks, etc. For those who are curious, the railroad replaces these on a periodic basis (safety precaution) and has to pay to dispose of the removed batteries. Each cell is a metal can approximately 12" high, 4" wide and 3"thick. A cell measures 1.2 to 1.3 volts on my voltmeter. They're packaged 4 cells to a wooden carrier. I couldn't find any markings indicating their amp-hour capacity. What I have in mind is to mount a 12 volt pack of them on my travel trailer so that I can use its built in 12 volt lights and furnace for more than a day at a time during deer season. With the two 12 volt "deep discharge" batteries I'm using now, one night of running the furnace pretty well discharges the batteries and I have to hook up a motor-generator or my pickup to recharge them. Any information will be appreciated. Regards. Cloyce. --- EZPoint V2.1 * Origin: Res Ipsa Loquitur (1:147/34.13) @PATH: 147/34 20 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (20) Tue 21 Jun 94 17:18 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: THE SHADOW KNOWS... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > As are mine. And I certainly have no axe to grind. (Other than a > long and checkered love for Rube Goldberg devices that work.) Then you'd love my driveway annuciator (Radio Shack photoelectric device mounted in a mailbox) and my "electronic beer tap". I have one of those keg tapper kits mounted in the door of a fridge, but I don't probably have to tell you what a pain it is to run out of beer when things are just getting rolling. So, I mounted a Heathkit electronic bathroom scale under the keg and recalibrated the readout (mounted on the outside of the door, of course) to read "000" with an empty keg and "100" with a full one. I flip the switch to energize the thing, and if it reads, say 043, that's nearly half a keg and we can get with the program. OTOH, if it reads 008, we draw out the remainder into a pitcher and send someone to the store before it closes. It's what I call "a high-tech solution to a non-problem". <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (21) Wed 22 Jun 94 17:26 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Lewis Cosper Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > And, you're correct about the usefulness of the heat output from > the engine, used in a co-generator setup, *if you need the heat*. > > Depending on what part of the country one lives in heat generation > requirements will of course vary. Here on the Oregon coast there is > seldom > a day that we don't stoke up the old wood burner in the morning and > evening. There was a blurb in Popular Science or Popular Mechanics some years ago on a co-generation device that I believe was made in Italy. It was a small engine/alternator setup that started and stopped by the thermostat in the house. Its main function was to heat water for domestic heat, with the power as a "bonus". This would be an ideal application for an "induction generator" (nothing more than an electric motor, driven faster than its syncronous speed). The major disadvantage is that it's relatively high-maintainence, and is relatively sophisticated, compared to a simple furnace. For *me*, probably you, and certainly many in this echo, it wouldn't be too bad, but good ol' grammaw would have some trouble if this thing needed fixing. And, of course, there's oil changes, sparkplugs, starting battery, etc. I'm very tempted to build one for here, just for grins if nothing else. :-) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (22) Thu 23 Jun 94 10:26 By: Thad Sowinski To: Don Kulha Re: SOLAR CELLS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Don, OK Is there a Place I can get some Solar Cell by Mail order or Catalog. Radio Shack is High Price. I want the for Charging Battery for Radios and Camping. I have an Inverter in the Camper. I thought maybe I could Mount some one the Top of the Camper. I have seen some at the Ham Fest and Bought a few and Like them. I need more to go with 12 VDC in parallel for Current. Right now I have 12 Volts with good Sunlight at .35 mA output. Thad * OLX 3.10 25-2575 * VŒçšî¨!¨ Wî d™¥'t g™t ¥™ tŒ¥kŒ¥g vŒçšî!!! --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (23) Thu 23 Jun 94 17:00 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Chris Clark Re: RE: THE SHADOW KNOWS... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > commercial product. that basic stamp thing intrigues me though... > have to get a copy of midnite engineering. There's been a seris on the BASIC Stamp and what they call the "conterfeit stamp" in Nuts & Volts magazine. The latter is a homemade BASIC Stamp of some sort. (don't ask me for details, I didn't pay that close attention) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (24) Thu 23 Jun 94 17:03 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Jeffrey Vandyke Re: ELECTRIC CAR HEATER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I'd have to agree with you there. I didn't notice if your VW > was the diesel car or was it a van? I knew someone that had It's a '91 Jetta Diesel. I had an '83 Rabbit that I sent along down the road with 190,000 miles on the clock; it now has 225,000 on it. Runs nearly as good as new and still gets over 45mpg. My '85 Golf Diesel had 185,000 when I turned it over to the next owner; it, too got 45mpg or so. This Jetta is a bit heavier car and gets in the high 30's and has 117,000 miles so far. Sure do love my VW Diesels. <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (25) Thu 23 Jun 94 17:08 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Ken Uhrick Re: RE: CARBURATOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have seen plans useing a lp carburator and heating gas to vapor > after the pump like the pump at the tank and gas line runing in That's different than gasoline, Ken. An LP carb has a "vaporizer" just ahead of it. The liquid LPG flows into it and is vaporized by the heat of the coolant. The vapor goes through a "zero-pressure regulator", usually part of the vaporizer, then to the carb. The latter is a very simple carb with a nozzle in the venturi. Nothing to it in most cases. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (26) Thu 23 Jun 94 21:57 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Don Kulha Re: EFFICIENT FUEL USE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > many rabbits you pull out of a hat it's unlikely you could boost the > 9mpg figure by more than 20-25% or so...That would an expensive > undertaking as well. Better to have a small fuel efficient vehicle Back in '79, we took my buddy's '79 Chevy 4-wheeler, pulled the 350 V8, and installed a Perkins 6-354 Diesel and a New Process 5-speed/5th-over transmission. You had to look very hard to see that the factory didn't install it. Total cost was probably about a couple of grand or so at the time (the engine was $500.00) He later added a turbocharger to it. W/O the turbo, it got 15+ MPG, a 50% jump from the 10mpg that it got originally. The turbo bought another 2 mpg or so, and considerably more oomph. Still wasn't as good as the old 350, but it wasn't bad. Although I've not seen him recently, I understand that he has about 200K on it now and is still driving it. We were going through a keg of beer every week for several weeks in a row, lemme tell ya. :-) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (27) Wed 22 Jun 94 15:49 By: Don Kulha To: Lewis Cosper Re: Got any idea???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0895b4 @REPLY: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5587b23a LC> How come it tis that one renewable source of energy, alcohol, never seems LC> to get any bandwidth in here? It never seems to make it as far as my fuel tank :-) LC> From what I have read it is easily used in IC engines. LC> It seems to be fairly benign environmentally. LC> It can be made from virtually any crop material. LC> It's not to hard to produce. LC> It's relatively safe to handle. So safe as a matter of fact that it is LC> routinely stored in fragil glass containers in many LC> public stores. Course I don't think I would wanna burn that variety. <> All of the above true....Why not more interest? I dunno. It certainly works well in IC engines as witnessed by all the oval track racers that use it on a weekly basis. In fact oval track sprint cars and midgets use alky specifically because they tend to "flip over" a lot and the alky doesn't explode like gasoline does. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (28) Wed 22 Jun 94 16:03 By: Don Kulha To: Dave Skinner Re: Earth Friendly Cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0898f4 @REPLY: 1:105/711.0 2e053144 DK> While Quaker State is fine I'd heartily reccomend DK> you run a good synthetic for mileage and also for DK> engine longevity. Tests I participated in indicated DK> that engine power would increase around 5% (water brake DK> dynomometer tests on a formula ford motor). DS> Can I infer from this that milage would go up 5%? DS> Most of the miles in my vehicles are from 60+ mile DS> trips thru the desert or over Mt Hood (I must be DS> traveling most of the time at 55mph or faster). I DS> currently change oil every 4000 miles. Not having to DS> change oil and increasing the available power or DS> increasing milage would make me switch. Also, do you DS> have any experience with diesel PU's and a synthetic DS> oil. It would seem that fuel economy would improve though likely not the whole percentage figure (rolling resistance and wind drag staying constant...unless you wax the car). We dynoed the formula ford motor, ran it about 30 minutes with Valvoline 20-50 racing oil and got 100-101hp. We then changed the oil to Red-Line synthetic 10-40 (changed the filter too), ran it another 30 min. then ran the power test and got 107hp. It pretty much has to be a friction reduction that accounts for most of the improvement considering we did nothing else but change the oil(the motor was well broken in when we started testing). I run synthetic in my wife's diesel rabbit. Originally it was the operators of fleet vehicles who championed the synthetic oils...a little anitfreeze in the oil didn't destroy the motor as quickley as if conventional oils were used. Seems to decrease wear on cam lobes and other heavily loaded parts by about 60%. I change the oil in my wife's car at a doubled interval but change the oil filter and add a quart at the normal interval (if the filter clogs you don't want it's internal bypass to open and send unfiltered oil to the bearings). DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (29) Wed 22 Jun 94 16:14 By: Don Kulha To: Chris Clark Re: Re: THE SHADOW KNOWS... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e089b88 CC> i just sent him some info on a servo chip which seems CC> to handle a lot of the needs of a tracker in analog CC> pretty well. it does the return to east thing and CC> provides overcurrent protection and hysteresis if i CC> remember right all on the chip. i like the digital CC> stuff for it's flexibility, but in this case i think CC> analog makes sense, especially if don's trying to CC> develop a prototype of a commercial product. that basic CC> stamp thing intrigues me though... have to get a copy CC> of midnite engineering. CC> -chris Got the info thaks VERY much. Awaiting my EE right now who's coming over to pick up a copy of the info....DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (30) Wed 22 Jun 94 16:20 By: Don Kulha To: Jim Fitzsimmons Re: Solar Book(s)/Internet? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e089cf4 @REPLY: 1:153/9115.0 2e04f53c JF> Hello All, JF> I was wondering if anyone can recommend a good book JF> for starting out with solar power applications? JF> Also is there a area on the Internet that carries the JF> Home-power Mag? If so how can one subscribe to it? JF> Thanks for any assistance.. Yes, there are a few but since I have none I'll reccomend you to others here who can review them. My suggests are to get the "Real Goods" "AE Sourcebook" (about $20, call 800 directory assistance for their number), then call Alternative Energy Engineering @ 800-777-6609 and ask for a copy of their catalog (lots of good info besides product listings). Tell AEE I sent you via the HOMEPOWR conference and they'll likely not charge you for it ($3). If you don't get HP mag you should..it is the best for practical hands-on info. Their offer of the past 6 issues (sent right away) and the next 6 (a year sub) for $35 is a great deal for getting up to speed. I don't know if you will be able to subscribe to Home Power magazine via the internet. I suspect online copies of the magazine will always lag the print issue by about a year. I have to talk with Richard and Karen about this soon. Currently the issues are sent to the printer on two 128mb optical disks. The actual texts in ascii may be difficult to get (or extra work on the publishers end). We'll just have to see. Currently you can find HP issues 1-35 (less 21-25...so far) plus indexes and a bunch of other stuff at Home Power BBS (707)822-8640, on Sonoma Online (707)545-0746, Energy BBS in Florida, Energy Ideas Clearinghouse in Olympia Washington and via the internet at Univ. of N.Carolina, Chapel Hill (sunsite.unc.edu) in the Sustainable Agriculture areas. There is a new Internet Newgroup "Alt.energy.renewable" available now which this conference will be gated into. My collaborator in this Lawrence writes: ** HOMEPOWR on the Internet; archives and mailing lists In about a week alt.energy.renewable will be available at any news site willing to carry it. After a few more days of discussion I will have the newsgroup formed. I will archive it at sunSITE.unc.edu in: pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/energy-resources/ discussion-groups/newsgroups/alt.energy.renewable I have all back issues of Home Power magazine online here as well, accessable via Gopher, etc. plus lots of other alternative energy information. a.e.r will gated to an Internet mailing list renew-energy@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu An Almanac list running at the almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu server and fully gated to the FidoNet conference HOMEPOWR. You could e-mail the sysop, Don Kulha (dkulha@crl.com) about this. E-mail me for further information and an access guide. Lawrence London london@sunSITE.unc.edu --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (31) Sat 18 Jun 94 13:02 By: Gale Barrows To: Ian Woofenden Re: Your Carburetor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e032888 IW>My van is propane only, so I don't know about switching to/from gas IW>on the fly. I keep hoping that if someone ever steals it they will IW>try to gas it up... the thief will get a pile of gas on his foot IW>since the gas tank is gone . At one time I had a van in which I had installed a camper type propane furnace. Since I was too cheap (and broke anyway) to install a proper propane tank, I used a 20 pound bottle. I took a gas filler neck from a Pinto and installed it so that I could just set the bottle outside and run a hose into the van and furnace. i had a regular gas cap on the neck to close out the weather when the gas was not being used. I poulled into a full service gas station and told the attendant to fill her up. He filled the van tank and then I smelled a strong gasoliner odor. He had seen the extra cap and started pumping gas in there also !!! Had about 3 gallons in the back of the van before I got him stopped. He did make an extra sale though. A locking gas cap to go on the propane "filler" !!! * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (32) Sat 18 Jun 94 13:07 By: Gale Barrows To: Terry Buyers Re: Military Surplus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0329b6 TB>Still in the market for a 50s-something Power Wagon, an Ambulance (easier to TB>haul the kids around in) or a couple of Jeeps, though. Try Vintage Power Wagons, Fairfield, Iowa. They have the GI 3/4 tons and ambulances for sale as well as about any part you might want. Later civillian stuff also. TB>But, it is enough to make you yearn for a deuce and a half, multifuel. There is one on the local DRMO auction next week (June 23) !!!! TB>--- Squish v1.01 TB> * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox (803)652-3760 PRNet/SC SURVNet (1:3624/7) * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (33) Sat 18 Jun 94 13:09 By: Gale Barrows To: Terry Buyers Re: Military Surplus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e032a30 Have been asked by DK to keep the GI vehicle stuff to a minimum as it is not properly on topic. Do wish there were an appropriate echo for the subject though. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (34) Sat 18 Jun 94 13:18 By: Gale Barrows To: Jeffrey Vandyke Re: electric car heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e032c4e JV>-- GB> There are also the gasoline burning heaters once commonly seen JV> GB> in Volkswagen air cooled cars. There are also similar gasoline JV> GB> burners available as military surplus that put out even higher JV> GB> amounts of heat. JV>I've been hearing about the ones in cars, but I didn't know JV>about the military ones. Can you tell me about any good JV>surplus places that do mail order? I don't have any addresses in front of me of outfits that have them for sure but you might check with some of the dealers in surplus trucks and also cherck some of the Jeep parts suppliers. Surplus City or Jeep City advertises in some of the four wheel drive magazines. Since there were kits available for Jeeps, they might have them. You might also contact Shadetree Salvage, Passaic, Missouri, (formerly of the LA area) phone number 816-679-3304. Memphis Equipment in Memphis, Tenn. should also be able to help. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (35) Sat 18 Jun 94 13:25 By: Gale Barrows To: Jim Richardson Re: Re: Choices ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e032df4 JR>GB> have been working with has the 9.00X16 GI tires new for $75 !!! JR>$75? does that include inner tube and flap? if so, that's a great price. I JR>got tires for my 715 at WWW for about $150 each including all the stuff, JR>shipping and a 3% amex charge, that was the best I could find at the time JR>for me. Just the tires. The tube and flaps are generaly reusable, though. Address is Shadetree Salvage, Passaic, Missouri. phone # 816-679-3304. He also has several 6X6 trucks. JR> Regarding parts. I have been keeping a list of parts numbers of stuff as I JR>replace it. Most of the running gear stuff are standard industrial parts, JR>just that no-one has M715 Kaiser in their parts books. If you want a list of JR>the parts I have identified with their commercial #'s let me know, things JR>like U-joints and wheel bearings mostly. I have the GI parts manual so just order parts from suppliers of GI parts by GI #. I do wish there were an echo for this type of stuff. DK has already asked me to hold it down as it is wandering from topic !!! * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (36) Thu 23 Jun 94 0:00 By: Lou Schneider To: Ken Finney Re: Nifty idea #45,221 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0908e4 @REPLY: 1:343/70 539ade96 > Or, since we are talking about a significant amount of light being > desired, you could put eleven LEDs in series along with a diode to > protect them from being reversed biased (LEDs are not that rugged) and > you would have a very efficient light source. That's kind of what I had in mind for my porch light - put a string of high output LEDs in series. However, LEDs are picky about the voltage they see - once you pass the turn-on point the current rises dramatically for a slight increase in voltage. This is not good for a situation where the input voltage to the light can vary by a couple of volts (charging voltage vs. low battery) so I've been thinking of using something like a 10 volt string of LEDs and feeding it from a 3 terminal voltage regulator IC. --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (37) Thu 23 Jun 94 0:02 By: Lou Schneider To: Bob Paddock Re: Mazda Water Engine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e09095a @REPLY: 1:2601/553.0 2e04ee16 > What every happened to their three moving part > Wankial (Spelling?) motor? The Wankel rotary piston engine is still being used in the RX-7 sports car. It wasn't too successful as a general purpose engine, largely due to it's excessive fuel consumption. Due to the large surface area of the combustion chamber (essentially the entire circumference of the motor) the engine was a heat sieve. Since more heat was being lost outside the engine, less was available to do work and MPG suffered. The Wankel also had durability problems. The rotor seals travelled at a pretty high speed, and would fail at around 60,000 miles, at which point the engine would have to be rebuilt. --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (38) Thu 23 Jun 94 0:04 By: Lou Schneider To: Bob Paddock Re: Recharger of reg. bat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0909b2 @REPLY: 1:2601/553.0 2e04f126 >> I'd like to know if anybody on this echo has one of those new >> chargers, that recharge REGULAR "C, D, and A" batteries, the kind you >> normally toss out after they're drained. > Can some one explain how this works please? If the battery chemistry > is not designed to be reversible what difference does the charger > make? Also isn't this a fire/explosion hazard? Alkaline batteries could always take a partial recharging, but they quickly heated up and you ran the risk of fire or explosion from the internal pressures recharging generated. The new chargers use a microprocessor to control their charging rate to get around the heating problem. The cells are charged using pulses of electricity, not a continous current. There's a limit to the number of times you can rejuvinate (not really recharge) an alkaline cell. Each charge restores only part of the cell's capacity, so the amount of use you get out of each charge is progressively less. Ray-O-Vac claims a life of 25 cycles for their Renewal alkalines, which have been optimized for recharging. There are two different alkaline chargers on the market. The Ray-O-Vac Renewal charger works only with their Renewal cells. The tips on the Renewals are slightly different and a standard cell won't make contact in the charger. Buddy-L also makes an alkaline battery charger, and they say theirs will work with normal alkaline cells, not just the Renewals. --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (39) Fri 24 Jun 94 13:25 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Ian Woofenden Re: EARTH FRIENDLY CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I also think that driving gently has a lot to do with cars lasting a > long time. I see these people that can't wait to race away from a I run the hell outa my VW Diesels; you'd never get there otherwise. However, I don't *beat* it. <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (40) Wed 22 Jun 94 13:10 By: Steve Erickson To: Bob Paddock Re: Your Carburetor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:4F40 86C90000 BP>JD>5. Engine must be simple enough to maintain that it doesn't BP>JD>require a degree in rocket science. BP> With all of the added on pollution control junk I BP>think todays autos fail on this point. Now they even want BP>to add the stuff to lawn mowers and go carts... The price BP>we pay for clean air.... It has nothing to do with clean air. It is all about overpriced inefficiency. þ OLX 2.1 TD þ The World is run by those who show up. --- WM v2.09/92-0593 * Origin: AmeriKa BBS Anchorage,AK. (907) 272-1776 (1:3550/516) @PATH: 3550/516 500 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (41) Fri 24 Jun 94 18:01 By: Joseph Sanders To: All Re: Electric Vehicle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2601/553.0 2e0b65ac Is it possible to put an electric motor on a motorcycle? Has anyone attempted it yet? Colonel ___ X CmpQwk #UNREGX UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Matric Limited: (814) 437-5647 Franklin, PA HST/DS (1:2601/553) @PATH: 2601/553 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (42) Fri 24 Jun 94 21:21 By: Arthur Torrey To: Wesley Jones Re: Re: CARBURATOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: ProBoard 2.01 rSr -=> ... And Wesley Jones said unto Jack Brannan <=- WJ> I haven't heard of it but an Uncle told me about engines in the WJ> orient running on the gasses produced by baking wood in a WJ> chamber. It seems they had a firebox under a sealed chamber in WJ> which pieces of hardwood were heated until they produced smoke WJ> which was then fed into the engine through a simple valve such as WJ> a propane burning engine uses. This technique is not the worlds most efficient, but it DOES work, and can be used not just with hardwood, but with nearly any form of vegetable matter that is dry enough not to contain major amounts of water... WJ> As a kid I used to put slivers of wood in tin snuff cans with a WJ> small hole in the lid. When these were put on the wood range we WJ> had in the kitchen they would start to smoke out of the hole and WJ> when this was lit it burned with a pure blue, smokeless flame..... This is a technique known as distillation of wood, heating wood drives off several different chemicals that can be captured... I forget just what all the outputs are, but the gas is a low level fuel gas, methane, butane, propane, something like that... (along with steam/water vapour of course...) You also get various wood alcohols, creosote, etc... The remains are basically carbon, in the form of charcoal, and indeed this technique is basically what charcoal producers do.... WJ> Most of the heat to char the wood to produce the gas (smoke) WJ> could come from the exhaust. Yup, once the reaction is started, it is mostly self sustaining over the bulk of the process assuming that the output gases are redirected to supply the reaction heat... ART ... Sleep: The Karmic Payback for inadequate caffeine intake ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- ProBoard v2.01 [Reg] * Origin: The Silver Mage's Guild BBS (CAW) Waltham, MA (1:101/245) @PATH: 101/245 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (43) Sat 25 Jun 94 6:41 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Chris Clark Re: SINCLAIR... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 6c8b9a0e -> when i got one! ... remember the silver paper and the arc-printer? Crude, but effective. Beat the hex out of trying to remember what you'd typed. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (44) Sat 25 Jun 94 6:55 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Lewis Cosper Re: Got any idea???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 6c8b9a0f -> Seems almost a natural for alternative energy folk, but I have seen -> virtually no discussion of the material. Gasahol, even at the nominal 10% alcohol level, got a bad rap becasue it tried to eat certain parts of the fuel system which were designed strictly for petroleum product fuels. There was an aerobatic pilot in Waco, a college professor who flew his Decathlon on even 'stronger' percentages of alcohol and gave demonstrations of how well it performed. It was a real winner. Unfortunately, no one gave a damn. (The FAA seriously frowns on such shenanigans and makes it almost impossible for "normal" folks to do such things.) An engine 'designed' to run on 100% alcohol could theoretically produce perfectly good power and dependability. It remains for someone to PRODUCE alcohol in sufficient quantity and at a competitive PRICE for such use to become commonplace. In the interim the oil companies have us at their mercy. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (45) Sat 25 Jun 94 7:04 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Lewis Cosper Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 6c8b9a10 -> Now this might be a real nice application for computer control. Monitoring -> water temperatures, starting battery, battery bank condition, oil and fuel -> conditions and on demand start requirements. NOW you're talking! Exactly where a computer works best! Dust off your spare Coco Dunmeyer! Get on with designing the control system for a diesel Rabbit woodstove. Quicker than wood heat and probably cheaper to run. ( I was wondering Jim, do you use a chainsaw to cut your wood, or depend on the Paul Bunyan approch to axe?) Best idea you've had today Lewis. And I especially like the idea of having enough reserve power in your IC plant to power shop equipment, lathes, mills, arc welders, saws, etc. Just the everyday things we think we can't live without.... (Gimme an arc welder and a BIG hammer and I can make ANYTHING fit.) ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (46) Sat 25 Jun 94 7:35 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Ian Woofenden Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 6c8b9a11 -> Interesting. I've never been aware of the variation. Or I always blamed it -> on the equipment. Thanks for the perspective. De nada. An old butane truck driver explained it to me. -> What do you look for and why do you bother, and *how* do you make those -> adjustments? Is ignorance bliss, or am I endangering my family and/or -> wasting fuel by not adjusting my range? WEll, my emphysema makes me extremely sensitive to improper combustion products so I know right away when I fire off the stove and it aint right. Mostly, I just adjust the air valve to get the most efficient burning. (Little or no yellow flame at the end of the blue which is perfect combustion.) On a cookstove ANY yellow shows you need to adjust the air. You might also need to pinch off the orifice just a tad. (Which is adjustable with an open end wrench, just inboard of the valve handle.) If you were running off natural gas, the serviceman from the gas company would make all these adjustments on your stoves and water heaters. Probably for free, and probably far safer than tinkering with it yourself. The supplier of your propane may do the same thing. Ask him. -> I run a 13 HP Honda engine belted to a high amperage alternator. I Heck of a good combination! Hard to beat and easy to justify environmentally. A Honda engine burning LPG is about as non-polluting as IC gets. Plus the engine should have an exceptionally long life burning propane. (I have a friend who has a Ford 300 Cu in six pulling an irrigation pump that has run it for almost twenty years, HARD during our dry hot summers, without ever pulling the head. HE figures it has at least half a million miles on it. Oil stays clean as a pin.) -> IW> Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) -> EH> Boy, I wish mine was..... -> Are you moving in that direction? I was for many years. Tried EVERYTHING, up to and including a freon pump windmill. COOLING is where it's at im MY part of the world..... PV's wind machines of various persuasions, pumping the heat from my house down my well..... You name it I've probably tried it. Now that I'm sick, I pretty well have to stay inside or drag that damn little green bottle around, so I'm slowing down considerably. I do still have two emergency light plants. One high-cycle AC-110v / 12Vdc (Aircraft generator) and one surplus army field generator 3 phase delta 120vac, both on LPG (No natrual gas available, ) Primarily because we're in hurricane country and power failures may last a week. I'd VERY much like to have a PV setup to keep the computers on-line, but I simply cannot afford it. (The old F.M. kept the BBS up for two days during the last blow.) IT burns so little fuel under light load it's simply not economically feasible to buy PV's. Tell me more about your physical plant. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (47) Sat 25 Jun 94 7:40 By: Russ Wuertz To: Peter Caffell Re: Muffler ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 2978 @MSGID: 1:374/17 53aa7d06 @REPLY: 3:772/1000.0 2e073bbc I thought that a positive pressure in the carberator would be the best possible use. What... we have 15 pounds of pressure all around us. At least a pound must be lost through the filter, and a couple more due to the resistance of the air cleaner. Its a vacuum when the piston pulls in and unless its filled with a positve pressure, a lot of the cylinder size would be lost. I think this is the theory behind turbo charging, but I'm not positive. --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: Energy * Where people discuss it before it runs out! (1:374/17) @PATH: 374/17 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (48) Sat 25 Jun 94 14:17 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Jack Brannan Re: RE: CARBURATOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > This was common during WWll, especially in the Orient but was also used > in Europe. You can run a car like this without modification (or very > much) by blocking the air intake and feeding the smoke directly into the > carb. It does require a stove of sorts to burn the wood, the less > effecient the stove the better. A lot of smoke and very little fire. The Mother Earth News had an article or 2 about this quite a number of years ago. It is easy to rig up, but is not real efficient. The gases include a lot of nasty compounds that tend to do damage to the engine, so this isn't something you want to do to something you care about. They had some sort of scrubber/filter that helped a bit, and some blower on the "stove" or smoke generator; it was not real easy to control as I recollect. It would be lots better than nothing, I suppose..... --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (49) Sat 25 Jun 94 14:21 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Tony Cygan Re: ELECTRIC CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > is that if there is a limited amount of dino fuel in the ground > as many people think there is (me included), then what will > happen to our ability to travel by plane, boat, etc when it > runs out. This would affect not only pleasure travel, but We were "running out of oil" in 1953; we now have more *years* worth of proven reserves than we did then, and at a far higher rate of consumption. Not saying that conservation isn't worthwhile, it is, but not just because "we're running out of oil". The really easy-to-get stuff has been gotten, but today's wells also produce a LOT more oil than the old ones. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (50) Thu 23 Jun 94 11:21 By: Don Kulha To: Arthur Torrey Re: Re: Carburator ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e09a864 AT> The manifold heat IS useful in other ways though... AT> While I have never heard AT> of anyone actually baking on it, it is standard AT> practice among those that do AT> outdoor construction work and the like, where AT> microwaves and fast food joints AT> aren't common to use the manifolds of their equipment AT> to warm "heat and eat" AT> type canned goods for lunch... I have done such when I was working on the AT> Mississippi River as a deckhand, and while working on AT> an oil seismograph crew... AT> The key things to remember are to wire the can on AT> TIGHTLY, and to make sure AT> you punch a small hole in the lid for pressure relief - AT> otherwise your lunch AT> can be a real bomb.... ;-{ Very true, thanks for pointing that out. Admittedly this is a little "thin" in terms of co-generation but it is practical utilization of waste heat. A brief story to illustrate the point Arthur brings up. I was at a friends house waiting for him to come home and his wife was making dinner. We had gone in the back yard where their 2 year old daughter was playing in a small wading pool when there was an explosion in the house which blew out the kitchen window. I went in the house to check it out and discovered green stuff all over the walls and the room full of steam. My friend was preheating the oven and little Alexis had put a 16 oz can of Spinich in there at some time earlier. The can had exploded blowing the door off the oven, breaking a couple cabinet doors across from it and the force had blown out the window. The sides of the oven were also pushed out a good 3 inches necessitating taking the counter appart to remove the dead oven. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (51) Wed 22 Jun 94 23:09 By: Gale Barrows To: Don Kulha Re: Waste Heat cogen...stone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e08fcce DK> FO> reminds me of my ol datsun- used to have a heat shield between the DK> FO> exhaust manifold & fuel pump to prevent vapor lock. Sometimes on long DK> FO> steep climbs it would conk out. Hadda pee on the fuel pump to resume... DK> FO> the exhaust manifold may be a good source of heat but it is very hard t DK> FO> meter, it varies so. I remember seeing something about some joker DK> FO> rigging up an oven , baking bread while driving. DK> I've done something similar...When driving my 51 Chevy DK>pickup across county to ILL from CA I used to use baleing DK>wire and tie cans of beef stew, etc. to the intake manifold DK>so I had a hot meal when I got to my eve's camping spot. DK>Also used to tie an aluminum canteen to it as well to heat DK>water forinstant coffee and Tom and Jerry's. The intake sat DK>right over the exhaust (235 6 cyl) so it got really warm. I used to drive a 1973 dodge van to gunshows in the winter. Since many of my trips were as much as 1500 miles each way, I often didn't take time to stop for dinner. I always carried a case or two of MRE's (military rations Meals Ready to Eat also known as Meals Rejected by Everyone) and would chow down on them. (some of the meals are not bad) I just placed one of the unopened mylar bags of main entree on the defroster and had a warm meal in about 10 minutes !!! I never did get to the point of tying road kills to the manifold though !!! * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (52) Wed 22 Jun 94 23:23 By: Gale Barrows To: Lewis Cosper Re: Got any idea???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e090018 LC>How come it tis that one renewable source of energy, alcohol, never seems LC>to get any bandwidth in here? LC>From what I have read it is easily used in IC engines. LC>It seems to be fairly benign environmentally. LC>It can be made from virtually any crop material. LC>It's not to hard to produce. LC>It's relatively safe to handle. So safe as a matter of fact that it is LC>routinely stored in fragil glass containers in many public stores. Course I LC>don't think I would wanna burn that variety. <> LC>Even open burning of the stuff is pretty safe. Heck you can put it out with LC>water. LC>Seems almost a natural for alternative energy folk, but I have seen LC>virtually no discussion of the material. I have long been a fan of *ethanol* (*methonal* shall never pass my gas filler neck to paraphrase the temperance folks) as a fuel and fuel aditive. I used it extensively when younger and (if possible) dumber and driving dirt track race cars. More power and much cooler running. I also use it in the form of gasahol whenever I can get it as I think my rigs run better on it. The big drawback I see with it is it's characterictics when burning in the open. It produces a colorless smokeless flame and I have seen several cases of severe burns when a race driver or pit man was in an alcohol fire and nobody knew it till screams were heard. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (53) Sun 26 Jun 94 8:37 By: Jim Overstreet To: all Re: water filter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:396/1.5 e0d773c0 Anyone out there know a source of information on constructing a reverse-osmosis type water filter? Would also need to know a source of the membranes. Thanks. --- * Origin: Esc1.70 - Southport Point (1:396/1.5) @PATH: 30202/5 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (54) Sun 26 Jun 94 8:54 By: Jim Overstreet To: all Re: Tesla Society on Shortwave ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:396/1.5 e0d773c1 Just wanted to pass along that while tuning across the Shortwave bands (I think Friday night) I heard the tail-end of a program produced by the Intl. Tesla Society. There was a fellow discussing his rotary-magnet motor, that supposedly produced over-unity power. I think it was at 0300Z on either WWCR or WHRI. It sounded like this may be a regular weekly program. Does anyone have any details on this program? I dropped off to sleep without recording any details, so did I actually hear this or was I dreaming? The motor's inventor (who had a very heavy accent) said he would be presenting info at the upcoming convention in Colorado. --- timEd-B9 * Origin: Esc1.70 - Southport Point (1:396/1.5) @PATH: 30202/5 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (55) Sat 25 Jun 94 23:23 By: Dave Skinner To: Gale Barrows Re: Military Surplus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:105/711.0 2e0cf49e @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e032a30 GB> Have been asked by DK to keep the GI vehicle stuff to a minimum as it is GB> not properly on topic. Do wish there were an appropriate echo for the GB> subject though. take it to SURVNET survival_oriented. I wont complain about it. --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: /\Oregon Desert/\(503)475-3056(v32b)/\ (1:105/711) @PATH: 105/711 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (56) Sat 25 Jun 94 14:37 By: Don Kulha To: Ian Woofenden Re: Lubricants for Fuel efficency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0c7986 @REPLY: 1:101/525.3 5ff78f67 DK> I always run synthetic oils (lately castrol but previously DK> Redline or Amsoil). One Caveat, never, ever run synthetic DK> oils in a new engine being broken in...the piston rings will DK> never break in properly. IW> Do you have an opening lecture on oils and what's best for what? IW> That's all a mystery to me. My mechanic uses Quaker State. I used to IW> use Valvoline because someone swore by it. What are synthetic oils IW> anyway, and how do I tell them from natural ones? And what IW> difference does it make? And is this off topic? Off topic? Well, we're getting close to the edge... To the extent that we are speaking of vehicle fuel efficency and extending the lifespan of a vehicle which relates over-all life cycle energy cost for the vehicle I think the moderator will let us proceed :-) I don't have any spiel on oils and frankly don't know a whole lot about them (besides what works). I'm sold on synthetics though and know of enough success stories relating to it's use to make me a believer. Synthetic oils are always marked as such and I doubt you'd confuse them with standard oils (especially considering the $4/quart price). They are generally based on normal petroleum base stocks so they are easily recyclable via normal channels for waste oil. They reduce friction in the motor, contributing to fuel use efficency and extended motor life spans. I use synthetics in transmissions and diffentials as well DK> The portion of which is most affected by propane is the valve DK> stem and guide area. First indications of excessive wear is DK> usually smoking at startup IW> I'm starting to see some of that lately. When will I regret it if I IW> don't do something about it now? Will I by nuts to take a 2500 mile IW> trip in August without getting the valves done? No, not necessarily. The smoke at startup comes from oil draining down the valve guides indicating excessive clearance and that the valve stem seals (the OEM parts on small Chevy V8's are a joke) are unable to do their job. To repair the heads right it would take a set of exhaust valves, new valve guides, a valve job and it would be prudent to surface the deck surface of the heads. It's been a while since I had any of this stuff done so I'm not up on current pricing. I'd guess parts and machine shop labor (including the gaskets needed) at about $300. If you decide to do this let me know and I'll netmail you some tips on doing this right. It's worth the effort since it sounds like you plan to "recycle" your vehicle and keep it on the road as opposed to sending it off to the crusher. Since you're using propane this is a "double-win" situation. At some point do the heads and then see how many miles you can squeeze out of the shortblock. Using propane and synthetics you might get 250k miles out of it. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (57) Sat 25 Jun 94 15:23 By: Don Kulha To: Bill Basford Re: EARTH FRIENDLY(er) Cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0c8448 BB> I hadn't heard these numbers from VW before. I would guess that BB> they must have counted all the energy used in turning iron ore into BB> steel, turning sand into glass, etc. Do you know if they made any BB> allowance for energy recovered when an old car is salvaged and BB> recycled? My best guess is that the way to minimize energy BB> consumption now is to recycle most of the big old cars and turn that BB> stored energy into new econo cars, toute suite! I would think they'd have factored recycling the materials in their life-cycle energy costs considering how well they do this with autos in Germany. BB> I did some calculations a few years ago and discovered (if I BB> remember correctly) that, on average, the typical automobile consumes BB> it's own weight in gasoline each year, and will consume roughly ten BB> times it weight in gasoline before being scrapped! That's disgusting! Aaargh! I ran the math and it sounds close to me. Thanks for the info...now I'm depressed. We've gotta stop burning so much of this noxious stuff. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (58) Sat 25 Jun 94 15:43 By: Don Kulha To: Bill Basford Re: COGENeration ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0c88e2 BB> Cogeneration is certainly the best way to use any fuel, but I doubt if BB> it's cost effective to do this for a typical home. However, it IS cost BB> effective for most any industrial site that has a steady heat load. Sounds like it. For a home-scale system I wouldn't want the noise and exhaust on a regular basis to deal with. IMHO we should use biofuels and cogen wherever there aren't clean renewable energy sources we can tap and use fossil fuels only where no alternatives exist. Got an info pack from the Alternative Fuels Development Center at NREL today. They say that, at best, biofuels could supply 20% of domestic energy use. So, to the extent that conservation and other renewables don't offset fossil fuel use it will be with us for some time to come. Makes sense to use it as efficency as possible.... BB> By going to cogeneration using large medium speed diesels that can put BB> out up to 47% as electricity, they could cut their energy costs by BB> about $6 million per year, and reduce total energy consumption (and CO2 BB> emissions) by about 60%. But instead of seriously considering this BB> opportunity, they are still trying to wring more price concessions out BB> of the local electric utility. In fact, I'll bet they are using Cogen BB> as one of their best bargaining chips. To these bureaucrats, immediate BB> profits come first, and there is no second. Bah Humbug! Thanks for the info and providing this excellent example. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (59) Sat 25 Jun 94 16:11 By: Don Kulha To: Dave Halliday Re: Re: LED BULB REPLACING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0c8f56 @REPLY: 1:343/210 86CAFCE5 DH> CC|have you guys heard about the blue ones yet -they're DH> expensive, but i'd like get a couple just to play with. DH> I've also seen something about red/green/blue all... DH> DigiKey has them for sale - couple of bucks each - been tempted to tack DH> one on to an order for "research purposes" :-) DH> The whole arena of opto-electronics just keeps getting more and more and DH> more interesting! While interesting it sounds like you're leaving the "LED's and energy efficient lighting" relm. Please don't stray too far friends..... DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (60) Sat 25 Jun 94 20:36 By: Gale Barrows To: Arthur Torrey Re: Re: Carburator ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0ccd70 AT> -=> ... And Fritz Oppliger said unto Jack Brannan <=- AT> JB>Has anyone here tried or know someone who has tried running their fuel AT> JB>supply line around the exhaust manifold to preheat the gas before it AT> JB>goes in the carb.? I have heard of this being done during WWII and AT> JB>useing gasoline mixed with fuel oil which was easier to get. I heard to AT> JB>that it gave better mileage. AT> FO> reminds me of my ol datsun- used to have a heat shield between the AT> FO> exhaust manifold & fuel pump to prevent vapor lock. Sometimes on long AT> FO> steep climbs it would conk out. Hadda pee on the fuel pump to AT> FO> resume... the exhaust manifold may be a good source of heat but it is AT> FO> very hard to meter, it varies so. I remember seeing something about AT> FO> some joker rigging up an oven , baking bread while driving. AT> I would agree, attempting to pre-heat gasoline is not a good idea, indeed, AT>among the high performance crowd at least, much attention is given to keepin AT>the fuel/air mix as COOL as possible prior to the intake stroke... This is AT>because a cool mix is denser, thus allowing more complete filling of the AT>cylinder during intake... Do you remember the old racer trick of *cooling* the fuel? Ther fuel line formed coils inside a can (insulated on the "delux" versions) and the can was filled with ice. This is still seen on some applications whhere the vehicle is used under heavy load on hot days. I also have used it very sussefuly on a couple vehicles that had bad vapor lock problems. AT> The manifold heat IS useful in other ways though... While I have never hea AT>of anyone actually baking on it, it is standard practice among those that do AT>outdoor construction work and the like, where microwaves and fast food joint AT>aren't common to use the manifolds of their equipment to warm "heat and eat" AT>type canned goods for lunch... I have done such when I was working on the AT>Mississippi River as a deckhand, and while working on an AT>oil seismograph crew... * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (61) Sat 25 Jun 94 0:00 By: Gale Barrows To: All Re: telephone ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e0babca If this is too far off topic, I will find someplace else to look but the folks here seemed most likely to have the answers. Some friends of mine have moved onto a small palce in rugged forrested ground and want phone service (partly to participate in this echo and others). The problem is that there has never ben phone service closer than 3 miles and cellular type systems do not reach there because of topography and sparse customer population. There have been varied quotes of costs of putting in land lines of from $3,500 to over $30,000 for the 3 miles of buried lines required !!! The electric company will not allow phone lines on their poles and the Forrest Service will not allow new lines above or below ground to be run. This seems to leave only some type of radio relay system. Any ideas or suggestions. This place is on a main traveled highway and is 3 miles from the nearest phone. A phone would be of great advantage in case of fire or injury. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/23 1 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (62) Sun 26 Jun 94 6:54 By: Bob Paddock To: Chris Clark Re: Re: RECHARGABLE LITHIUM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2601/553.0 2e0d6c58 CC>out LOTS of current. they sound like a natural for makita- CC>type power packs -no more memory effect and longer run CC>times. CC>i think i'll get a couple more of them for a solar fluorescent flashlight i'm CC>buying. it's 4watts, and takes 4 aa's -should run quite a CC>while on a charge, and be tolerant of partial dischargeing CC>and charging. And will probably be dead every time you REALLY need it. NiMh's have a higher self discharge rate than NiCd; this is one of the may reasons people want rechargable Li. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Matric Limited: (814) 437-5647 Franklin, PA HST/DS (1:2601/553) @PATH: 2601/553 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (63) Sun 26 Jun 94 20:35 By: Bob Paddock To: Steve Erickson Re: Joe Newman's ideas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2601/553.0 2e0e2cc4 SE> Matric Limited is your BBS? It belongs to my Employer, I just stuck FidoNet on it when no one was looking. :-) --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Matric Limited: (814) 437-5647 Franklin, PA HST/DS (1:2601/553) @PATH: 2601/553 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (64) Sun 26 Jun 94 20:40 By: Bob Paddock To: Elvis Hargrove Re: off-the-grid-computers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2601/553.0 2e0e2df2 EH>I of course immediately rigged one to work in the car and was pleasantly EH>surprised to find it functioned perfectly as a mobil display. A friend is EH>putting one in his pickup. Some states will look unkindly on this if it can be seen from the drivers seat. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Matric Limited: (814) 437-5647 Franklin, PA HST/DS (1:2601/553) @PATH: 2601/553 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (65) Sun 26 Jun 94 11:08 By: Cloyce Osborn To: Joseph Sanders Re: Electric bicycle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JS> Is it possible to put an electric motor on a motorcycle? Has anyone JS> attempted it yet? Yes, Joe, it is and I did that very thing back when I was a college freshman (I ain't about to tell you how long ago that's been, though). The ones being made today work much, much better than the one I cobbled together. I started with a 12 volt car battery, a switch and a car heater blower motor. This proved to be unacceptably slow and underpowered (it wouldn't get the bike moving from a standing start). Being a typical farm boy, I thought "well, if a little motor nearly works, a big motor ought to work real good." I then went and found myself a starter motor from a junkyard, removed the bendix and welded a chain sprocket on the shaft. I mounted the motor where the pedals used to go, hooked a starter solenoid up to the on-off switch and mounted the bike to try it out. When I flipped the switch, the starter motor came to life and snapped every spoke out of the rear wheel! I sat there on the ground with a puzzled look on my face while my dad, who had been watching all this from the back porch, laughed himself sick. Right up to his dying day, this was one of his favorite stories about my youthful misadventures. Regards. Cloyce. --- EZPoint V2.1 * Origin: Res Ipsa Loquitur (1:147/34.13) @PATH: 147/34 20 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (66) Sun 26 Jun 94 8:42 By: Jim Fitzsimmons To: Don Kulha Re: Solar Book(s)/Internet? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:153/9115.0 2e0d77ba @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e089cf4 Hello Don, Thank-you for your post that was in responce to my question about Home-power mag. availability via the Internet.I will be looking into a subscription to HPwr soon I think also.Thanks again oao.. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Blue Moon BBS (Zulu Hours Only) (1:153/9115) @PATH: 153/9115 918 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (67) Mon 27 Jun 94 10:51 By: Dave Halliday To: Don Kulha Re: Re: LED BULB REPLACING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:343/210 86CEAA31 DK| DH> CC|have you guys heard about the blue ones yet -they're DK| DH> DigiKey has them for sale - couple of bucks each - been tempted to tack | DH> one on to an order for "research purposes" :-) | DH> The whole arena of opto-electronics just keeps getting more and more an | DH> more interesting! DK| While interesting it sounds like you're leaving the "LED's and energy |efficient lighting" relm. Please don't stray too far friends..... | DCK Well... I never really entered the LED's and efficiency realm so I can't really leave it. I still like to keep tabs on what is going on with the technology! Now some of the things that are happening with the fluorescent lights are pretty amazing - solid-state regulators with efficiencies of 85-90% plus lives of 10,000+ hours! Been replacing the lights in my house with these puppies TTYL - Dave * QMPro 1.51 * day++; dollar++; --- WM v3.11/94-0125 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) @PATH: 343/210 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (68) Sun 26 Jun 94 17:51 By: Ron Hammer To: Scott Miller Re: EV - Fiero ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 @MSGID: 1:282/4019 53ac5d8e SM> Well, we got the info from alot of different books & SM> magazines. We never found a book which had step-by-step plans SM> for converting a Fiero, though. SM> As of now, we have all the ICE parts removed, the SM> electric motor mounted to the transmission, and brackets for SM> the batteries in place... SM> We still need a charger and controller. SM> When it's ready, we're going to keep track of the vital SM> info... SM> Maybe I'll post it. I would like to see your info when your done so pleas do post it. I was wondering what you used for a Electric motor, plus what you did for a controler but you dont have that yet, SM> I was hoping that someone had actually converted one SM> themselves and could provide their range, top speed, etc... Well sory I cant help you there. But when you get done post your sats. Ron --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: Behind THE DOOR (612)774-6976 (1:282/4019) @PATH: 282/4019 85 1 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (69) Sun 26 Jun 94 23:03 By: Terry Buyers To: Gale Barrows Re: Military Surplus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3624/7@fidonet.org 42d790df @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e0329b6 In a msg on , Gale Barrows of 1:125/7 writes: TB>>But, it is enough to make you yearn for a deuce and a half, TB>>multifuel. GB> There is one on the local DRMO auction next week (June 23) !!!! I don't suppose you'd know of anything in this end of the country? We have enough kudzu here to make a biomass burning truck a natural. --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox (803)652-3760 PRNet/SC SURVNet (1:3624/7) @PATH: 3624/7 3603/20 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (70) Sun 26 Jun 94 11:06 By: Chris Clark To: Don Kulha Re: Re: THE SHADOW KNOWS... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- glad i could help... keep me (everybody) posted... -chris --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: DownTown BBS -- Durham, Nawth Car'lina 919-383-4905 (1:3641/220) @PATH: 3641/220 151/1003 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (71) Mon 27 Jun 94 8:10 By: Scott Miller To: Darwin Teague Re: Electric Vehicle - Fiero ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DT->I have a set of plans from Mother Earth News. Is this what you DT->used to guide you? No, we used our own plans. We'd be interested in seeing the plans, though. Could you post the month/year of the magazine? DT->What did you use for a motor? That was what stopped me from doing DT->one, trying to find an airplane generator, or whatever it was... We used a 20hp motor from Advanced D.C. Motors in Syracuse, N.Y. DT-> Seems it used a small gas engine to help recharge the batteries. We might make ours into a hybrid later but we want to see what it'll do w/o the gasoline, first... Scott * SLMR 2.1a * NWO: "All will be equal, but some will be more equal." --- FreeMail/GrayQwkMail 2.1 * Origin: * The H.O.M.E. BBS (317)539-6579 * (1:231/710) @PATH: 231/710 120 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (72) Mon 27 Jun 94 8:14 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Jim Dunmyer Re: RE: CARBURATOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 6d8a98d2 -> It would be lots better than nothing, I suppose..... You really have to want to go to town to drive a wood-burner there. My bro-in-law had rather more experience than he wanted with them in Indionesia. Said, (Direct quote) "They are a double barreled bitch to keep running." I must admit that's ONE thing I've never felt compelled to tinker with. BTW, is the battery backup system on your BBS full time float or switching? I've GOTTA do something about a UPS. Heavy on the *U* ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (73) Mon 27 Jun 94 7:12 By: Ed Noble To: All Re: Real Estate World BBS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:273/931 86CE67B2 REAL ESTATE WORLD BBS Is now sending and recieving...is now sending and recieving Messages....Text...Messages...Origin Lines...Etc.. FROM this conference....and TO this conference For All Your Realestate needs....All Your Realestate needs Hey hey....This echo really works....works.. B-> B-> --- WM v3.10/94-0345 * Origin: A Place To Network in Real Estate 215-426-2268 (1:273/931) @PATH: 273/931 913 10 203 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (74) Fri 24 Jun 94 13:00 By: Mike Masse To: Elvis Hargrove Re: EGT sensor ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:323/146.0 2e0df5f8 --==> On 22 Jun 94 08:16:11, Elvis Hargrove bellowed to All <==-- EH> the CoCo Jim? Did you know that the pilot-pickle out of a gas water EH> heater makes a great EGT sensor for leaning small engines? If you have a moment, could you please explain this? I find some of the topics and ideas in this echo fascinating. I think that American inginuity still lives.. Thanks ..Mike.. ... I'm not paranoid, everyone's out to get me! --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: The Sword of the Spirit! * On the Narrow Path! * (1:323/146) @PATH: 323/146 1012 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (75) Sun 26 Jun 94 15:42 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: OFF-THE-GRID-COMPUTERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > How many thermocouples in series does it take in your woodstove to > run the CoCo > Jim? Did you know that the pilot-pickle out of a gas water heater > makes a > great EGT sensor for leaning small engines? I don't actually operate the COCO from the stove's heat, Elvis; it runs from the AC line with a battery backup feeding the +5VDC line through the cartridge port. As this is a newer COCO (white case), it runs on *just* 5VDC, so could be easily powered from a battery if need be. The gas water heater thermocouple feeds an OpAmp (1/4 of a quad OpAmp, actually) that bumps the voltage to 2-3 volts at normal operating temperatures. The joystick ports will read from 0-5VDC and turn that into a 0-63 reading that you can grab from BASIC. I went back to that Nuts & Volts magazine and re-read the article on the BASIC Stamp computer, and decided that it really sounds ideal for much of what we're talking about. It runs on a single 9-volt battery, and it its auto-sleep mode, will run literally weeks on a battery. The program is loaded through a serial port and stored in some sort of non-volatile RAM, so it doesn't require continuous power like my COCO does. The COCO is no doubt overkill for many applications, including Don's PV tracker, but there are other places where it might be pretty nice. Controlling a hybrid home power system would be a good example, where you have PV, wind, and perhaps a gas/Diesel generator all tied to your battery bank. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (76) Mon 27 Jun 94 21:36 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: GOT ANY IDEA???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > perfectly good power and dependability. It remains for someone to > PRODUCE alcohol in sufficient quantity and at a competitive PRICE for such > use to become commonplace. In the interim the oil companies have us at > their mercy. Elvis, Alcohol is quite expensive to produce by most methods, and has other problems when used as a substitute for gasoline. First is that you use nearly twice as much of it as you do of gasoline, and even tuning the engine for pure alcohol won't make up for it. Secondly, the engines start hard, especially in cold weather, requiring a squirt of gasoline to get 'em going. And, we should be so unlucky as to be at the oil companies' mercy. Gasoline is cheaper now in real terms than at any time in our history. :-) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (77) Mon 27 Jun 94 21:39 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > run. ( I was wondering Jim, do you use a chainsaw to cut your wood, > or depend on the Paul Bunyan approch to axe?) <> I use a Stihl 056 with a 60" 2-man bar to cut the slabwood from the sawmill, and a Stihl 024 for most other stuff. Got a hydraulic splitter, powered by a 15hp 3-phase motor to break the big stuff down. We have to stack by hand, and either use a wheelbarrow to haul it to the stove, or a big (1/3-cord) box that we carry with the forklift. > (Gimme an arc welder and a BIG hammer and I can make ANYTHING fit.) You know, I seriously wonder how someone can even exist without a welder and an oxy-acetylene torch. <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (78) Sun 3 Jul 94 13:20 By: Greg Luckett To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:130/507.0 2e170559 @TID: FastEcho 1.40 7775 -=> Quoting Malcolm Stebbins to Greg Luckett <=- MS> Greg, I don't remember how it was calced out, suspect the idea was MS> hot air ducts, tho' the use of hot water vs. steam may have entered MS> into the thing; the idea was to use the engine's power to run the shop MS> and the heat rejected to heat several buildings, but it was more of an MS> engineers " just suppose" than a serious attempt. Years ago while I was a Seabee stationed at Keflavik, Iceland, we used to heat up enclosed work areas by running our vehicles indoors and using a hose to pipe the exhaust outside. Worked pretty good, but was fuel expensive. Only used for temporay heating on a few occasions. Heat was circulated by the engine cooling fans. ... Talk to me. Make believe I'm your bartender. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 OS/2 [NR] * Origin: The Earth Club (817)465-9193 or (817)465-1941 (1:130/507) @PATH: 130/507 511 55 124/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (79) Mon 4 Jul 94 3:24 By: Chrissie Craige To: All Re: Rainforests ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:124/2113@fidonet.org 72067c3b Can anyone tell me anything about the rainforests in Australia or the developing ozone hole over that country? Thanx --- * * PEN * Informal BBS - Absecon, NJ * 609-652-6182 --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: Lunatic Fringe * Richardson,TX * 214-235-5288 * (1:124/2113) @PATH: 124/2113 2105 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (80) Wed 29 Jun 94 0:47 By: Gale Barrows To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Your Carburetor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e10fcc8 EH>(Gimme an arc welder and a BIG hammer and I can make ANYTHING fit.) Some years ago the US Marine Corps Commandant was said to have said, "Give a Marine an absolutely unbreakable item and a soft rubber hammer and he will break the unbreakable item" !!! * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (81) Wed 29 Jun 94 0:52 By: Gale Barrows To: All Re: quiet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e10fdf6 How can a engine such as a Briggs 8-9 horse be muffled for maximum quiet? In my application (portable generator if you can call 150 pounds portable !!! ) the muffling would have to be all to the exhaust. I have considered running the exhaust through a stock muffler and then into a ssmall bore automotive muffler. How would that work? * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (82) Wed 29 Jun 94 0:59 By: Gale Barrows To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Got any idea???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e10ff9c EH>-> Seems almost a natural for alternative energy folk, but I have seen EH>-> virtually no discussion of the material. EH>Gasahol, even at the nominal 10% alcohol level, got a bad rap becasue it tri EH>to eat certain parts of the fuel system which were designed strictly for EH>petroleum product fuels. The biggest problem was with the blends using methonol which caused corrosion problems and was much harder on rubber parts than ethanol. Ethanol also is much less corosive. If you ever drive through some states like iowa today, you will have a hard time fionding anything but Gasahol blended using ethanol. Ethanol blended Gasahol is still my prefered fuel whenever I can get it without paying a premium as I have to in my town. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (83) Wed 29 Jun 94 1:09 By: Gale Barrows To: Don Kulha Re: Electric M/C ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e1101f6 DK> JS> Is it possible to put an electric motor on a motorcycle? Has anyone DK> JS> attempted it yet? DK> I have seen several electric motorcycles, some electric motor scooters DK>(these are production items), many electricified bikes and DK>even a solar-electric skateboard (?!). The last M/C I saw DK>that was electrified looked like a very nice job and a DK>great use for an older bike that had fried it's motor. It DK>looked to have about a 2 hp motor and it had 2 batterys DK>where the engine went originally. I believe the owner DK>stated the mileage between charges was 50 or so miles. I DK>would choose a m/c chassis with front disk brakes, probably DK>in the 500-750 cc range to make sure the suspension and DK>brakes were properly up to the task. Back in the late 50's or very early 60's (definitly before 1963) a local tinkerer built an electric bicycle. He used a regular car battery and a starter motor. The motor had the starter drive locked so it wouldn't go back and forth and merely pressed the gear against the bike tire. Don't know how far he could go but it sure intrigued me !!! Dad wouldn't let me take the starter and battery out of the tractor to make my own, though. 8-( I remember seeing small gas engine units advertised (even Sears or Wards had them) that would power a bicycle by applying a drive wheel to the bike tire. (usualy on the front tire) Does anybody know of a source for them now. seems a smaller chain saw engine would be about the right size. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (84) Sun 3 Jul 94 21:07 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: CD Ad Redux ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e1760dc OOps!, While I was deep in the throes of a project my feed to HOMEPOWR changed and I didn't realize it...Darn. I likely lost a day or two's mail so if i miss responding to something important please resend..... I posted this on the 2nd and think it may have ended in bit heaven.... SOLAR-1 CD-ROM: Renewable/Alternative Energy and Home Power Shortly we will be shipping a CD we've published that contains a wealth of information on Renewable energy and it's use we've collected over the past several years. It also contains the text and graphics from Home Power mag issues 1-37 and will be a fantastic resource for those researching and implementing these technologies. The CD also contains a basic collection of archived Mac and PC shareware from our BBS, Sonoma Online. We have shipped the master CDR disk to 3M for replication and expect to have disks in hand by July 15th and start shipping July 19th upon my return from SEER. For orders postmarked by July 10th and including a check or money order the postpaid price is $25US, Normal price will be $29 after that (CA add 7.5%). For international orders please add $3 (funds as US dollars). After July 19th we'll post information on phone credit card orders. Send to: Sonoma Online, POB 7518, Santa Rosa CA 95407 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (85) Mon 4 Jul 94 10:12 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: A/C "HELP" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > My theory is that underpowered window units dehumidify better and > run more efficiently since they don't cycle during the heat of the day. > ICOCBW. It's well known that you always want a cooling system sized "just right", NEVER oversized. It'll cool, but won't run long enough to dehumidify the air. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (86) Mon 4 Jul 94 10:19 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Bill Basford Re: LUBRICANTS FOR FUEL EFFIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > If you're not ready for the full valve job yet, it's fairly easy on > most engines to install new valve seals without removing the heads. > This is only a temporary fix of course, but it's worth I've done this several times, just as you described. You can even buy the gadget that you screw into the spark plug hole to attach the air hose to. And, depending on the vehicle, it might not be as "temporary" as you think; I've seen fairly low-mileage cars that were several years old that needed valve guide seals; there was nothing else wrong with them. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (87) Mon 4 Jul 94 10:23 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Bill Basford Re: LUBRICANTS FOR FUEL EFFIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Speaking of lubricants for fuel efficiency, has anyone on this > conference had any experience with those Teflon oil additives that Bill, I've added Slick 50 to the oil of a couple of my VW Diesels and it "seemed" like they produced more power. Probably my imagination. :-) I've used nothing but 15w-40 Shell Rotella T for several years, and Sunoco 15w-40 for years before that. My VWs have routinely gone 200,000 miles or so and are still going. I was prompted to pull the oil pump in my '83 Rabbit and disassemble it; you'd have sworn that it had 20,000 miles or less instead of the 160,000+ that it really had on it. I change oil at 3000-4000 miles. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (88) Mon 4 Jul 94 10:27 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Dave Paxton Re: ELECTRIC BICYCLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > over heals. I never got arround to it but I think this same set up with > an old generator that would work > well as a motor. They tend to "freewheel" better. However, these Seems like I read a LONG time ago about building a kid's electric car, and the guy somehow installed the field coils from a generator in a starter motor in place of the originals. Obviously, he used the same brand of motor and generator with identical frames, and it seems like he'd have wired it up in a shunt arrangement instead of series. It was in an old Popular Science or Pop Mechanics. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (89) Sat 2 Jul 94 19:39 By: Ian Woofenden To: Jim Dunmyer Re: COMPANY COMIN' ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 ce4a4219 On (30 Jun 94) Jim Dunmyer wrote to Ian Woofenden... JD> I have a RS "pulsed infrared photoelectric retro-reflector" JD> gadget (you see them across the doorway at RS stores) mounted JD> so it looks out the back of a mailbox at the reflector on a JD> tree across the drive. So how is it powered? My problem is that I'd like to put such a thing about 1/4 mile from my house if I ever did it. And I'd also like a gadget on my mailbox (1/3 mile) to tell me if the mail has come. JD> The entire thing is about 75 feet from the end of the drive JD> so it doesn't get tripped by someone just turning around. JD> There's a buzzer in the house and in the shop so I know when JD> someone comes in no matter which place I'm in. Sounds great. Next is the remote camera to tell you *who* is coming. JD> You probably wouldn't be interested because of the power JD> consumption, but I saw a gadget in Northern Hydraulic's JD> catalog that used some sort of battery-operated transmitter JD> that tripped a line-powered receiver. Chances are that the JD> receiver could be operated from your non-grid power more JD> easily than my photoelectric gadget. Although the latter JD> probably draws less than 5 watts, that receiver of Northern's JD> probably draws milliwatts during standby. I'll take a look for that in Northern. I certainly can't get into something that draws much, but it shouldn't *need* to to do the job. Thanks, Ian ... If practice makes perfect, but nobody's perfect, why practice? --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (90) Mon 4 Jul 94 23:50 By: Chris Clark To: Elvis Hargrove Re: A/C SHOP AIR... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- in jersey, i remember hearing about guys running real low air pressure in the tires for flotation on the sund dunes, and then airing the tires back up w/ an old a/c compressor... somebody once mentioned to me that the system wouldn't be happy in the long run without an occasional squirt of lubricant to the compressor... any comments? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: DownTown BBS -- Durham, Nawth Car'lina 919-383-4905 (1:3641/220) @PATH: 3641/220 151/1003 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (91) Tue 5 Jul 94 10:54 By: Chris Clark To: Chita Cazares Re: Re: NICAD CHARGER PLANS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MAXIM (I.C. Manufacturer) has a chip that's ideal for charging NiCd's as well as NiMh batteries... Call 'em at 1-800-998-8800 and ask for data on the MAX712 and MAX713 ic's... Their catalog says that they'll sell small qty's.. they also sell "evaluation kits" which may be exactly what you need. these chips work by taking a series ov voltage readings, and dropping back from fast charge to trickle when the cells "peak". 1 to 16 cells can be charged at rates up to 4C. -good luck... -chris --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: DownTown BBS -- Durham, Nawth Car'lina 919-383-4905 (1:3641/220) @PATH: 3641/220 151/1003 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (92) Wed 6 Jul 94 12:00 By: Terry goode To: Jim Dunmyer Re: LUBRICANTS FOR FUEL EFFIC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:106/941.0 2e1af142 my dad had a 1966 ford mech bed truck that worked 7 daya a week well up into the 90's and all i ever saw him do was replace the oil filter ever 500 miles and add a qrt. every 2000 miles and when he died i got the truck and the oil was almost new looking (havolin oil) --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: THE GOLDEN COCO'S OTHER COMPUTER (1:106/941) @PATH: 106/941 8185 202 449 116 170/400 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (93) Tue 5 Jul 94 17:26 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > What size motor would it take to make my meter run backwards.....? It depends entirely on your load at the time. If your water heater was heating, it'd require a quite large motor/induction generator. One of these days, I'm gonna get the time and ambition to lash up this setup and see how it works; everything is here already. Got a Continental 4 cylinder engine w/clutch and PTO shaft, motors up to 15hp, and some iron to hold 'er together. And, I have natural gas right in front of the barn. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (94) Tue 28 Jun 94 6:46 By: Lewis Cosper To: Don Kulha Re: COGENeration ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5986c5be @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e0c88e2 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Don, > For a home-scale system I wouldn't want the noise and exhaust on a > regular basis to deal with. I have pondered on that. I think the noise could be taken care of. The exhaust is a bummer, but I hardly see it any worse than a stuffed wood burner belching smoke all day. > Got an info pack from the Alternative Fuels Development Center at > NREL today. They say that, at best, biofuels could supply 20% of > domestic energy use. WoW! Do you suppose we can extrapolate that to mean that at our present energy consumption rate we are using 80% more energy than is being replaced and stored by the whole earth system on a daily basis? > So, to the extent that conservation and other renewables don't offset > fossil fuel use it will be with us for some time to come. Makes sense to > use it as efficency as possible.... Not to get to philosophical, but from what I have seen of the general populous, conservation only occurs when forced. Kinda looks like we are heading with break neck speed for that forced conservation scenario. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (95) Tue 28 Jun 94 6:56 By: Lewis Cosper To: Jim Dunmyer Re: THE SHADOW KNOWS... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5986f0a4 @PID: FM 2.02 Hello Jim! > So, I mounted a Heathkit electronic bathroom scale under the keg and > recalibrated the readout (mounted on the outside of the door, of course) > to read "000" with an empty keg and "100" with a full one. Now Sir that is pure unadulterated brilliance! I shall have to copy that. Gotta go hit the garage sales. Bound to be one of those digit scales out there some where. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (96) Wed 29 Jun 94 3:48 By: Lewis Cosper To: Gale Barrows Re: Earth Friendly Cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5a03c0f2 @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e0e56f6 @PID: FM 2.02 > in my area. They have to be hauled 50 or more miles to a > crusher, then trucked 400 miles to a shredder, then hauled by rail > over 800 miles to a smelter. Hi Gale, I thought I was at the end of the world. Where in heck are you located any way? Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (97) Wed 29 Jun 94 3:58 By: Lewis Cosper To: Cloyce Osborn Re: Electric bicycle ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5a03d73e @PID: FM 2.02 > back porch, laughed himself sick. Right up to his dying day, > this was one of his favorite stories about my youthful > misadventures. Hi Cloyce, I would love to have seen that little episode. <> Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (98) Wed 29 Jun 94 4:05 By: Lewis Cosper To: Dave Skinner Re: Military Surplus ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5a0414ab @REPLY: 1:105/711.0 2e0cf49e @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Dave, > take it to SURVNET survival_oriented. I wont complain about it. What's that? Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (99) Wed 29 Jun 94 6:32 By: Lewis Cosper To: Don Kulha Re: Electric M/C ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 5a068526 @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e0f0498 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Don, > I would choose a m/c chassis with front disk brakes, probably in the > 500-750 cc range to make sure the suspension and brakes were properly > up to the task. Looks to me like one of the three wheeled bicycles you see being peddled around would be an exceptionally nice critter to convert to electric motivation. Using something like a 1/4 HP permanent magnet motor should be more than enough power. Probably want to gear that thing-ma-bob for a max top end of say 10 mph to keep it in the safe speed range. Using regenerative braking along with the normal hand brakes would probably be sufficient at those speeds. Seems to me it would be a nice little mode of transportation to whiz down to the local market on nice days to pick up a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk. Wouldn't take much in the line of battery to power the thing and construction cost would be minimal. Wonder if something like that would be considered a motor drive vehicle and have to have the associated fees, tag and such. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (100) Thu 14 Jul 94 14:20 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Wind power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000332d3 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Wind power @Message-Id: Date: 14 Jul 94 14:20:57 GMT In article <80b_9407131215@psybbs.durham.nc.us>, Tony Weeks wrote: >In my youth, I was inspired by an antique windmill and had thoughts of >a wind powered home using automotive electrical system parts. If the >cooking and heating was done with natural gas most everything else could >be run on 12 volts. The parts would be cheap and 3 or 4 car batteries >could hold enough power for when the wind is low. Do you know of anyone >that has tried this? This sort of thing was actually pretty common out in the boonies before the coming of the power grid. There are probably still some self-sufficiency types out there who do it, mostly jury-rigging the stuff. Might burn wood instead of propane or LNG, though. -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (101) Thu 14 Jul 94 14:54 By: Alan M. Horowitz To: All Re: Re: Wind power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000333a5 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: horowitz@cod.nosc.mil (Alan M. Horowitz) @Subject: Re: Wind power @Message-Id: <9407141448.AA21545@cod.nosc.mil> Date: 14 Jul 94 14:54:23 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu ------- HEat IS mechanical energy. Use the windmill, through some suitable friction-mediated apparatus, to heat a working fluid. HAve a PV for electric, or a second, smaller widmill, for a generator. Examine your usage of electricity. For example, the power involved in running a washing machine is mostly heating water, pumping the water, turning the tub, and spinning the tub. All of it mechanical energy. Why convert mechanical windpower into electricity and re-convert the elctricity into mechanical power, with losses at each stage? The only juice you _need_ is to operate the timer and the valves. What electricity is, in a windmill, is a mechanism for accomplishingenergy storage and energy dispensing. Perhaps those two goals make it worthwhile to accept the losses - perhaps not. ------- --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (102) Thu 14 Jul 94 14:59 By: Alan M. Horowitz To: All Re: Re:: Mufflers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000333a6 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: horowitz@cod.nosc.mil (Alan M. Horowitz) @Subject: Re:: Mufflers @Message-Id: <9407141455.AA23036@cod.nosc.mil> Date: 14 Jul 94 14:59:34 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu ------- I imagine that bubbling an engine's exhasut throgh water will lead to back pressure problems.... ------- --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (103) Thu 14 Jul 94 15:00 By: arbogast To: All Re: Re: Rayovac Renewal Batteries - anyone using these? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000334a0 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: arbogast@muleears.austin.ibm.com @Subject: Re: Rayovac Renewal Batteries - anyone using these? @Message-Id: Date: 14 Jul 94 15:00:48 GMT @Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) @Reply-To: arbogast@muleears.austin.ibm.com In , wilbe007@gold.tc.umn.edu (Vance Wilber) writes: >I've seen quite a few displays for the "new" rechargable batteries from >RayoVac. They're supposed to be different from the old style rechargables >because they maintain alkaline power (for longer time between charges) but >after 50 charges or so you need to buy new ones. > >Has anyone tried these?? > >-- >Lack job, will travel. > You should find the most recent copy of HOME POWER before you buy these batteries. Maybe the author will share his thoughts on this forum if he reads it. The article provided enough technical data to show these batts. to not be up to snuff after only a few recharges. It really points to nickel hydride or good old NiCads (provided you have a method to fully discharge'em) as the batts of choice. --- * Origin: Usenet:IBM Austin (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (104) Thu 14 Jul 94 15:38 By: Chris Jones To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000334a8 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: jones@vision.mse.vt.edu (Chris Jones) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: <303m66$9h2@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Date: 14 Jul 94 15:38:46 GMT : > Or, if we ever get that fusion thing going ... :) : > : > I think if we use solar or nuclear to dissociate the H2 from : >sea water, and then cause the reaction to occur in a controlled atmosphere, : >we could drive H2 powered cars for the next 10 million years without : >a problem. Maybe by then the Electrical Engineering guys (or us MSE's) : >will have developed either a battery that can drive something a while, or : >a material that can take the several thousand degree temperatures that the : >containment wall of a fusion reaction will require (this is of course outside : >of the magnetic bottle that will be neccessary to contain the reaction itself). : Let's assume there are a million cars in California moving -- on the : average -- 24 hours a day. And lets say each car is moving at a rate : requiring 12 HP. That's a power consumption of 12,000,000 HP total, or : 9,000,000 kilowatts. That's 9,000 megawatts. Your typical modern : nuclear power plant is 1,000 Mw. So California will need at *least* : nine new nukes to charge the batteries of those cars. Not if we use Hudrogen, that's the whole point! :) And besides, when we get fusion power, we can make as many nuke plants as we want (no waste)! BTW I agree with the previous poster who said that todays fission power plants are nonrenewable, and leave a lot of bad waste around. However, you have to crawl before you can walk (or run). : Feel free to adjust the power per car and the number of cars to : whatever value seems more plausible to you. That sounds reasonable, but I wouldn't power them with electricity anyway. Maybe when we get microfusion reactors ...? -- ___ _________________________________ \ \/ __ _________________________/ \ / / / Chris C. Jones \__/ /__/ jones@vision.mse.vt.edu --- * Origin: Usenet:Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (105) Thu 14 Jul 94 15:04 By: arbogast To: All Re: HOW TO DISCHARGE NICADS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00033577 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: arbogast@muleears.austin.ibm.com @Subject: HOW TO DISCHARGE NICADS? @Message-Id: Date: 14 Jul 94 15:04:38 GMT @Sender: news@austin.ibm.com (News id) @Reply-To: arbogast@muleears.austin.ibm.com How do I FULLY discharge NiCads after the dropoff voltage stops my walkman, etc. I understand this is smart to do since they develop a memory as to their level of partial discharge. I hate batteries to second guess me! Thanks in advance..Ted Arbogast --- * Origin: Usenet:IBM Austin (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (106) Fri 15 Jul 94 0:21 By: Jamie Barlow To: All Re: storing energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00033da2 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: grace@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jamie Barlow) @Subject: storing energy @Message-Id: Date: 15 Jul 94 00:21:08 GMT @Sender: news@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (News Account) Does anyone out there know of a good mechanical way of storing energy.Before the invention of the battery was there other ways to store energy efficinetly --- * Origin: Usenet:Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (107) Sat 16 Jul 94 23:37 By: Earl Needham To: Ken Finney Re: Power Consumtion of pelti ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:318/1 f4265d10 @ENI: OL On 07-13-94 KEN FINNEY wrote to ALL... KF> Has anyone out there measured the current at 12 V required to run one KF> of those coolers that use Peltier junctions to stay cold? I KF> understand KF> they aren't very efficient and take quite a lot of current, but how KF> much is "a lot"? Ken, I don't know how much a lot is, but when I used mine to heat instead of cool (reversible plug), the cigar plug melted! Must be a BUNCH! 73 Earl ... OFFLINE 1.50 ""Frankly my dear, I don't give a download!" -Rhett Sysop" --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: The Cellar Door RBBS * <505> 784-3187 (1:318/1) @PATH: 318/1 114/124 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (108) Fri 15 Jul 94 23:31 By: Dennis Keim To: Earl Needham Re: Induction machines ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:285/203.0 86E312D3 @PID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.00h 92-0084 Earl Needham told Jim Dunmyer regarding Your Carburetor : EN> Was just thinking about the induction motor being used as a EN>generator. How do you excite the field? With the line voltage? Just EN>wondering. Might be best if you pick up a book on this rather than go into the details here. The basic induction machine (which can be used as either a motor or generator depending on if one attempts to slow it down or speed it up from it's synchronous speed - 1800 rpm for a four pole motor with a 60 Hz AC imput) uses a "squirrel cage" rotor. This means that it is a series of parallel bars that are shorted out at the ends by rings of metal. When the windings in the exterior frame of the motor are excited by an alternating current they generate an alternating north/south polarity in harmony with the AC signal. Thus in a four pole unit pole number one might be north and then number two pole will become north and then number three pole will become north and then finally number four pole will become north and then the whole system repeats itself. This means that there is a rotating field that is developed within the frame space. The rotor when placed into this field has it's bars crossed by lines of magnetic flux as the field rotates. This in-turn produces a current in the bars which then generates its own magnetic areas on the rotor. Thus the rotor will attempt, once started in motion, to go at the same speed at that of the rotating field of the frame. Any attempt to slow or speed the rotor will induce (ergo the name induction) magnetism in the rotor and generate torque forces on the motor or generator's shaft. This is the normal operation of the induction machine. You may in some special cases get self-excitation if you have certain types of capacitors attached to the machine. Other than that the machine needs external excitation to generate an output. Hope this helps. --- * WinQwk 2.0 a#752 * What do you mean you reformated the cat? --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.00h * Origin: Flite-Line BBS Lincoln Nebraska (402) 421-2434 (1:285/203.0) @PATH: 285/203 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (109) Tue 19 Jul 94 8:25 By: Ian Woofenden To: Jody Gorran Re: swimming pool heater ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 60b07d2a @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0003048d On (11 Jul 94) Jody Gorran wrote to All... JG> If anyone out there in cyberspace is interested in a true JG> application of renewable energy technology, ie. solar JG> swimming pool heating, I'd be happy to make arrangements to JG> send you a free booklet on this subject. Can I turn it on backwards to freeze my pond ? If anyone knows anything about making ice, I'm interested. When pigs can fly, I'm going to have an ice rink. But I don't have grid power, so I need some alternative power source. Any ideas? Ian ... A dry sense of humor is better than slobbering everywhere. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (110) Mon 11 Jul 94 18:53 By: Doug Hoffman To: All Re: Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00031d64 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hoffman@cs.unc.edu (Doug Hoffman) @Subject: Re: QUIET @Message-Id: <2vs4er$jjm@ashe.cs.unc.edu> Date: 11 Jul 94 18:53:15 GMT On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable generators that can run on propane? Do they exist, how long do they run on a tank of gas, do they cost more than gasoline, etc? Regards, Doug -- ===================================================================== ======== Doug L. Hoffman | University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill Liberty, NC 27298 | hoffman@cs.unc.edu ===================================================================== ======== "Democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequals alike" Plato, _The Republic_ --- * Origin: Usenet:The University of North Carolina (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (111) Wed 13 Jul 94 12:39 By: Moshe Braner To: All Re: source for cheap small 12V PV, small 1V fan? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000323ff @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: braner@walden.snr.uvm.edu (Moshe Braner) @Subject: source for cheap small 12V PV, small 1V fan? @Message-Id: <1994Jul13.123913.19751@emba.uvm.edu> Date: 13 Jul 94 12:39:13 GMT @Sender: news@emba.uvm.edu I'd like to obtain a couple of photo-voltaic devices for trickle-charging a 12V gell-cell sort of battery. Can anybody tell me where can I get them for cheap? The $30 (or more) or so I see "car battery maintainers" advertised for seems too much. And I don't need the cigarette lighter socket, etc, just the PV panel. I'm also looking for a tiny fan that'll run on about 1 volt DC and low current. The kind that is built into a "solar hat", but just the fan. I'll be running it off a single nicad cell. Thanks. - Moshe --- * Origin: Usenet:University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (112) Wed 13 Jul 94 14:36 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Flywheel EV Prototype? Bellevue,WA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00032476 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Flywheel EV Prototype? Bellevue,WA @Message-Id: Date: 13 Jul 94 14:36:31 GMT In article <2vvin7$n0b@agate.berkeley.edu>, Ivo Roper wrote: >Howdy all, > >I'm looking at an article by Sean Griffin (McClatchy News Service) >entitled "Flywheel Power". It describes a flywheel 'battery' made >by a company called American Flywheel Systems in partnership with >Honeywell Satellite Systems. > >AFS expects their prototype vehicle (flywheel powered) will have >a range of 370 miles on a 15 minute charge of household current >and zip from zero to 60mph in 6.8 seconds. They expect it to be >completed sometime next year. The article goes on to mention a >few technical details which I'll post if people are interested. Please do. Even assuming that "household current" means a 50 amp 240 volt electric stove circuit, 15 minutes at full current would only be 3 kilowatt- hours of energy. This is only 4 horsepower-hours. I simply refuse to believe that this amount of energy will provide 370 miles of travel. I haven't calculated whether this would be sufficient for the acceleration mentioned, but once accelerated, I expect most of the charge would be gone. >I've left a message on AFS' answering service but I was wondering >if anyone is familiar with them here. Their message implies that >they're receiving a ton of calls and may not be able to get back >to me soon. Hmm. -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (113) Wed 13 Jul 94 14:24 By: Lanny Schlosberg To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars Go Home ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003286d @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: lschlos@pica.army.mil (Lanny Schlosberg) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars Go Home @Message-Id: Date: 13 Jul 94 14:24:13 GMT @Sender: usenet@pica.army.mil (USENET Special Account ) In article , dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) wrote: > > > On 9 Jul 1994, Paul Leventhal wrote: > > > Can we please keep the electric cars threads on sci.energy? They already > > constitute about 75% of the posts on that newsgroup. I don't think > > there's any need for them to take over this one also. > > As one of the co-founders of this list and newsgroup I would be > saddened if the EV discussion were dropped. We specially mentioned > EV's in our mission statement because they fit in to the mix of > renewable energy technologies that will (hopefully) replace those that > are more harmful to our world. EV's are not wholely non-polluting but can > be used in a manner that that minimizes it. Besides, historically it's > pretty tightly integrated in the AE discussion and the hopes of those > involved with it. > Maybe if we encourage folks to leave the bulk of politics elsewhere > folks won't find it too hard to bear.....:). > > > For that matter, perhaps it's time for alt.energy.electric.cars. I have found an EV Discussion group that might be ideal to merge with an offshoot of this group under alt.energy.electric.cars. Whoever is in charge of this group could contact Clide R. Visser, cvisser@math.ucr.edu as he already has mail lists for EV and AE. If you wish to subscribe to his lists send a message to listserv@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu with the message subscribe ev firstname lastname or subscribe ae firstname lastname. It would be nice if his groups could be combined on a segment of alt.energy, because now I get his groups mail sent to my regular mail instead of in a separate file that I log onto to read when I have the time (alt.energy.etc) lschlos@pica.army.mil > > Possibly so. Over the years I've been involved in many networked > discussion groups and what seems to happen is that eventually some thread > builds enough volume and momentum that it spins off a new discussion of > it's own accord. I think it's a bit early to do this but eventually > expect to see many spin offs specific to the various technologies we > discuss here. If we can grow a forum together that helps this happen I'll > feel we've made a good contribution to a renewables future. > Having said that feel free to proceed as you like. My vision may be > off the mark or short-sighted. What I'd really like to see is a: > > alt.energy.renewable.politics (or .implementation, or .?)... > > DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey USA (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (114) Wed 13 Jul 94 16:51 By: MShadowfax To: All Re: Re: anybody tried the new Trace? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000329af @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mshadowfax@aol.com (MShadowfax) @Subject: Re: anybody tried the new Trace? @Message-Id: <30161m$eqt@search01.news.aol.com> Date: 13 Jul 94 16:51:02 GMT @Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com In article , arbogast@muleears.austin.ibm.com writes: "I'm looking to buy THE inverter for my remote adobe. What's the new Trace 4000w like in real world usage? Local heat buildup, noises in the night, trouble with any appliances, stereo/TV noise, etc. Thanks in advance.. Ted Arbogast" How does the statement "I can't wait to order my second one so I can have 220V 2-phase" grab you? I have had my SW4024 in full-time service for 3 months now and have no complaints whatsoever. The unit runs flawlessly and has been able to handle anything I can throw at it from basic lighting and ceiling fans to my 1500w stereo-theater setup and back to running my table saws all afternoon without the fan even switching on (quite a trick on a hot Florida afternoon). As far as noises in the night - nothing more than the usual constant buzz that all inverters make. Mine is located in the garage right next to the living room and I don't even notice it's there. Also, the output from my stereo is noticibly cleaner than it ever was on the grid, not to mention a substantially better TV picture on my monitor. In short - if you have the $$$$ then go for it. You'll be glad you did. Like I said: I can't wait to order my second one so I can have 220V 2-phase. Shadowfax --- * Origin: Usenet:America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (115) Tue 19 Jul 94 22:26 By: Chris Clark To: Larry London Re: THANKS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- i'm glad you answered the post complaining about E.V.'s, etc. the way you did. i was beginning to worry about a change in the "flavor" of the home power area. the internet connection is great if it increases the flow of information, not so great if it reduces it. -chris --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: DownTown BBS -- Durham, Nawth Car'lina 919-383-4905 (1:3641/220) @PATH: 3641/220 151/1003 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (116) Wed 20 Jul 94 2:12 By: Russ Parks To: All Re: Dymaxion house ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:170/110.12 e2cc1471 @PID: SpamMail Anyone know where/how to find information on the Dymaxion house design of R. Buckminster Fuller? All I can remember is it was supposed to be efficient...even to the point of a 'fog-gun' shower to conserve water. E Pluribus Unix, Russ ...I'll never get off this planet. --- EZQuote 4.0 * Origin: Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam (1:170/110.12) @PATH: 170/110 100 400 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (117) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:28 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Marc Visconte Re: "Devices..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 7a80d091 -> What devices, what end use? What control/ running voltage? Enquiring -> minds, and all that... Multiplexed timers. Watering Celery. Twenty-four Volts DC / from 115vac mains or PV cells. These devices, which are relatively simple computerized timers, use matrix outputs to control several hundred solenoid valves located all over a 50-75 acre shaded celery rooting bed. (The solenoids are supplied low pressure water from a central pump/filtration system which the computer also controls.) This is down here in DEEP South Texas where water is a VERY dear commodity. (We have a whole RIVER full of it but it is 'owned' by various users and 'costs' a lot to buy.) In Calif. these systems are used extensively to control irrigation of a great deal of the water sensitive crops. Mostly PV powered, the whole system may run unattended for days at a time under circumstances where several people might be required to open and close irrigation valves and fixtures. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (118) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:48 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Marc Visconte Re: Egt? Get? Teg? Gte? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 7a80d092 -> Where'd you get the plans? -> EGT? Whazzat? Boy, your just FULL of questions aren't you! The Shadow Knows PV tracker is my own design. I'll build almost ANYTHING from scratch without any sign of plans. (Comes to me in my sleep mostly....) (E)xhaust (G)as (T)emperature sensor. Expensive as heck for aircraft. Used to set the mixture to optimum for best engine efficiency. Cheap as the dickens from plumbing supply stores and QUITE useful for adjusting LPG and natural gas fueled engines for max life and efficiency. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (119) Tue 19 Jul 94 11:31 By: Don Kulha To: Tony Weeks Re: Wind power/batteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2bffea @REPLY: 1:105/40.357 9662ac42 TW> In my youth, I was inspired by an antique windmill and had thoughts of TW> a wind powered home using automotive electrical system parts. If the TW> cooking and heating was done with natural gas most everything else could TW> be run on 12 volts. The parts would be cheap and 3 or 4 car batteries TW> could hold enough power for when the wind is low. Do you know of anyone TW> that has tried this? Tony, LOTS of folks are living and working off the grid. One of the first lessons (that folks seem to relearn quite often) is that car batteries are a very poor investment. They are meant for "float" conditions where they are shallow discharged to start a car and nearly immediatly refilled to full. You need a deep discharge battery, at least a gold cart or marine trolling type, better a true deep discharge such as the "L-16" type (6v-350ah). Dependant on how you truely used/recharged a car battery it might only last 6 months (or less). Wind power is immently practical but you have to fully assess the site of a potential windplant. There was a Bergy 850 on a 60 foot mast at SEER which made power maybe 2 hours/day...maybe 1500 watts/day. Some places it would make more, others a lot less. Paul Gipe (sp?) put out an excellent book "Wind Power for Home and Business" which you want to buy prior to buying and planning a wind power system. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (120) Tue 19 Jul 94 11:49 By: Don Kulha To: Dave Paxton Re: ELECTRIC BICYCLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2c0418 @REPLY: 1:369/3 86DE845E DP> Starter/generators are still available today for small engines, even saw DP> one on a Jap engine the other day. As far as the compression release DP> goes most engines over about 6 hp have them. That way the manufacturer DP> can put a cheaper batery and starter on or can sell 20 hp engines with DP> rope starts instead..... Hi Dave, I think it's prudent for me to mention here that we have to be considerate of all current and potential users for this conference. While I know from your long time participation here that you mean no offense some people might take offense at the use of the word "jap" above. We know it's just a contaction of the word Japanese but....Just for future reference.... DCK, HOMEPOWR moderator --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (121) Wed 20 Jul 94 0:32 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Energy CD Shipping ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2ca8e6 We're publishing a CDROM you might want to know about.... *SOLAR-1* Renewable Energy. ISO 9660 format, 350m/3400+ files Content: Text/graphics Home Power Magazine #1-37, Various texts, newsletters, graphics and programs on renewables; Wind, Hydro, PV's, Biofuels, hydrogen, batteries, thermal, and more (45mb). Also: A general collection of Mac and PC software (shareware, PD and demos), GIF's and texts are included. Mac Programs require macbinary conversion before use (305mb). Available Now, $29US postpaid. International Air delivery $3, CA add 7.5% sales tax. Sonoma Online, POB 7518, Santa Rosa CA 95407 Visa/MC orders please call Home Power Magazine @ (916)475-0830 For info: dkulha@crl.com, send SASE or call (707)545-7533. If we're out please leave us your fax number. Thanks...DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (122) Wed 20 Jul 94 16:46 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Ken Bridges Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > JD> (55-gallon drum) buried in the earth. Of course, that's not > JD> too portable. :-) > > I'd love to hear how this would work, it would sure quite down > my generator :) Just bury a drum and run the exhaust into it, Ken. Naturally, you also need an outlet pipe. :-) The idea of any muffler is to smooth out the natural pulsations of the exhaust and make it into a steady "whoosh"; if your outlet pipe is large, the "whoosh" would be quite subdued. You might want some baffles in the drum, or try Ian's idea of filling the drum with large rocks. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (123) Fri 15 Jul 94 4:09 By: Victor Lance Vescovo To: All Re: Re: Flywheel EV Prototype? Bellevue,WA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003420f @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: vescovo@netcom.com (Victor Lance Vescovo) @Subject: Re: Flywheel EV Prototype? Bellevue,WA @Message-Id: Date: 15 Jul 94 04:09:22 GMT Ivo Roper (ivo@remarque.berkeley.edu) wrote: : Howdy all, : AFS expects their prototype vehicle (flywheel powered) will have : a range of 370 miles on a 15 minute charge of household current : and zip from zero to 60mph in 6.8 seconds. They expect it to be : completed sometime next year. The article goes on to mention a : few technical details which I'll post if people are interested. Curious, how in the world do they get by the gyroscope problem created by flywheel-driven vehicles? From what I've heard, flywheel-cars make turning corners or going uphill quite difficult. . . Victor V. -- vescovo@netcom.com --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (124) Fri 15 Jul 94 4:57 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003432c @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 15 Jul 94 04:57:36 GMT In article <303m66$9h2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, Chris Jones wrote: [...] >: Let's assume there are a million cars in California moving -- on the >: average -- 24 hours a day. And lets say each car is moving at a rate >: requiring 12 HP. That's a power consumption of 12,000,000 HP total, or >: 9,000,000 kilowatts. That's 9,000 megawatts. Your typical modern >: nuclear power plant is 1,000 Mw. So California will need at *least* >: nine new nukes to charge the batteries of those cars. > > Not if we use Hudrogen, that's the whole point! :) If you use electricity to make the hydrogen, then you still have to have the power plants... >And >besides, when we get fusion power, we can make as many nuke plants as we ^^^^ I thing you mean "if" [...] > ... Maybe when we get microfusion reactors ...? See, you get a DeLorean, and you use it to go into the future and get a Mr Fusion... -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (125) Wed 20 Jul 94 7:35 By: Dave Willey To: Len Turnbow Re: Amp Meter Shunts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2d0bf4 >From: Len Turnbow >To: DAVE WILLEY Msg #489, Jul-10-94 21:46:42 >Subject: Re: Amp Meter Help (Snip) >Dave, were I you, I would "keep the monster". >Having said that, the answer to your other question is yes, the 100mV >shunt would drop ten times as much voltage across it as your existing >shunt does. It would thus be ten times more sensitive. >(And ten times as wasteful). >Your 50mV shunt will cost you less than 15 wattHours a year to operate, >worst-case. IHMO keep it. >Hope this helps. >--quartlow Hi Len, Thanks for responding. Seems we were missing messages for a few days on the local system. Wasn't sure if my original post made it out. (or if anyone responded.) Two points that have come up since I sent the first message out. I got more and more curious as time went on. So I broke down and called the manufacturer in Wash. state. The tech told me that there is no difference in sensitivity or accuracy between the two units. Both count tenths of a watt, and display watts to the nearest full unit. (Ones) I also should have planned ahead. I ended up driving up to SEER 94 this weekend. That was something else! Enjoyed myself so much on Saturday, I drove back Sunday. Got to talk to many of the "movers and shakers" in the Alt. Power world as well as the product reps. Spent a HECK of a lot more greenbacks than I should have. Walked away with (4) 220ah 6V golf cart batteries, a POWERSTAR 700 watt inverter and a Square D load center. (among many other things. SEER price specials were too good to pass up!) So now I'll probably need the larger capacity meter after all. Now I get to rebuild my system to handle the heavier current draw/capacity. I do thank you for your response about the shunt sizes. Your points are well taken and I'll follow them. _\\///_ (' O-O ') CUL AND 73! --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------------------------------------- | de KD6KWM/QRP ax25 bbs--> WX3K.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA | | Dave Willey pbbs--> KD6KWM-1 on 145.09 | | P. O. Box 3514 FIDONET--> 1:125/7 | | Santa Rosa, CA. 95402 VOICE/FAX--> (707) 577-0558 | --------------------------------------------------------------- --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (126) Wed 20 Jul 94 9:46 By: Tony Cygan To: Patrick Simpson Re: Re: Electric Cars legisl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2d2a98 -=> Quoting Paul Leventhal to All <=- PL> Can we please keep the electric cars threads on sci.energy? They PL> already constitute about 75% of the posts on that newsgroup. I don't PL> think there's any need for them to take over this one also. PL> For that matter, perhaps it's time for alt.energy.electric.cars. PL> Don't take this as a flame against discussing electric cars. I'd just PL> prefer not to slog through all those messages. PL> Besides, since electricity isn't a primary energy source, you can't PL> strictly say that it's either renewable or non-renewable. You can PL> only say that of the source that generates the electricity. Paul, The Alt.Energy.Renewable echo is threaded with the Fidonet HomePower echo and many of us do not have access to discussion areas outside of Fidonet to talk about EV's. Therefore this echo is very important to us. I understand your concern about the amount of messages your seeing, but perhaps your mail reader could sort by subject and you could skip over those that your not interested in. Tony ... Sac EV Assoc. meets 2nd Sat each month at 0930; 6201 S St. Sac, Ca. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (127) Wed 20 Jul 94 12:38 By: Tony Cygan To: Ian Woofenden Re: Human Powered Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2d52ea -=> Quoting Ian Woofenden to Leif Alexi Steinhour <=- LA> Does anyone know of a place that sells human powered LA> vehicles? I'm NOT talking about bicycles, of course, but LA> rather the modified recumbants & tricycles that are covered LA> with plastic/fiberglass shells. I know that MIT used to have LA> a contest every year to race them... 60mph+ from what I've LA> heard... LA> Anyone? LA> mail replies to: leif@owlnet.rice.edu, don't post! IW> Post here too, please. I did a little research on this back in the IW> mid 70's, but didn't come up with much of anything. But I am still IW> interested to know whether any such animal is commercially IW> available. Ian, I went into the Human Powered Fidonet echo can came up with the following information -- Hope it helps... Tony ---------------- - Area: Bikes & Huma --------------------------------------------------------- Msg#: 280 Date: 07-17-94 19:39 From: Gary Walsh Read: Yes Replied: No To: David Linzer Mark: Subj: Recumbent bikes ___------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- -=> Quoting Gary Walsh to David Linzer <=- DL> I was thinking of looking at some recumbent bikes, maybe buying one. Does DL>anyone out there with some experience have any comments DL>or advice for me? It DL>would be greatly appreciated. GW> Recumbents are great. I ride a Linear. Your best bet for information GW> is to subscribe to the Recumbent Cyclist News. Especially get the GW> buyers guide issue #19-20. Here is some subscription info. GW> _____________________________________________________________________ _ GW> Recumbent Cyclist News GW> PO Box 58755 GW> Renton, WA 98058-1755 GW> ____$25 USA Bulk Subscription GW> ____$40.98 Two year RC Sub. GW> ____$40 Supporter-1 USA 1st Class Mail (mailed flat) GW> ____$45 Canadian Sub. / Canadian funds GW> ____$45 Europe Air Mail (USA funds) GW> ____$50 Worldwide Airmail (USA funds) GW> ____$$100 RC Supporter Includes 10 copies of each issue GW> mailed 2nd Day Priority-US/ Can. only. GW> BACK ISSUE ordering information GW> ____$5 RCN#2-Cardboard-Composite/ History SWB Pt.1. GW> ____$5 RCN#3-DH5000 Review/ History SWB Pt.2. GW> ____$5 RCN#4-Ryan Vanguard Review/ F-40 / Flevo/ More SWB History. GW> ____$5 RCM#5-Linear LWB Review/ Omega HPV / HPV Design . GW> ____$5 RCM #6-Tour Easy/ Gold Rush Reviews/ Next Gen. Bike. GW> ____$5 RCM#7-Lightning P-38 Review/ 1st Readers Survey. GW> ____$5 RCM#8-'92 Buyers Guide/ Homebuilder guide; 32 pg. GW> ____$4 RCM#9-A.T.P. R-20 SWB Road Test/BMX , Safety; 32 pg. GW> ____$4 RCM#10-Laid Back-E SWB Review-/ Thebis; 32 pg. GW> ____$5 RCM#11-Counterpoint Presto Test/ SWB Homebuilder; GW> ____$5. RCM#12-Rans Road Test/ Homebuilder SWB/ R'bent GW> ____$4.50 RCM#13-Easy Rider Trike/ Pirahna IV Homebuilder GW> ____$5 RCN#15 The ReBike Review/ Lightning Design History GW> ____$5 RCN#16 The Trice Trike Review GW> ____$5 RCN#17 The BikeE Review GW> ____$5 RCN#18 The Presto vs. Easy Racer Shootout! GW> ____$7.95 USA, $12. CAN, $14 WORLDWIDE AIRMAIL GW> RCN#19/20 1994/95 Recumbent Buyers Guide Issue. GW> This issue includes the most up to date information on how to GW> choose the perfect recumbent bicycle for you. This issue could GW> save you from purchasing the wrong bike. It outlines the uses GW> and strong points of all currently available recumbent designs. GW> It will walk you through the recumbent selection & purchase GW> process. Let RCN help you select the perfect bike! Available GW> NOW! ____$5 RCN#21 Easy Racer Gold Rush Replica/ ATP Vision R-40 double GW> road test. GW> GW> *BACK ISSUES are mailed 3rd class postage. (allow 4-6 weeks for GW> delivery) GW> *FIRST CLASS MAIL/ RUSH SERVICE--ADD $.50 PER ISSUE GW> *CANADIAN-AIR MAIL / RUSH SERVICE ADD $1 PER ISSUE GW> *WORLDWIDE-AIR MAIL ADD $2 ea. ISSUE (Specials below not valid) GW> *SPECIAL-A: Any six back-issues mailed 2nd Day priority for $25.95** GW> *SPECIAL-B: Any twelve back-issues mailed 2nd Day Prority for $49.95** GW> SPECIAL-C: '94 Buyers Guide + the current RCN issue. for $11.99 GW> SPECIAL-D: '94 Buyers Guide + any three back issues. $19.99 GW> **RCN#19/20 counts as two issues GW> *WASHINGTON STATE RES. ADD $8.2% SALES TAX ON BACK ISSUE ORDERS GW> *PAYMENT MUST BE IN USA FUNDS (UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED) GW> *PLEASE SEND PAYMENT WITH ORDER--SORRY, NO CREDIT CARD ORDERS GW> Email address: DrRecumbnt@aol.com GW> Hours: M-F 10am-3:30pm weekdays PST. GW> Call the Recumbent Hotline! Ph# 206-630-7200! GW> Gary Walsh, Richmond Hill, Ontario, GW> Canada. GW> * DeLuxe2 1.26b #5606 * Internet: gary.walsh@canrem.com , Fido: GW> 1:229/15 -!- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' GW> ! Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15) ... Sac EV Assoc. meets 2nd Sat each month at 0930; 6201 S St. Sac, Ca. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (128) Wed 20 Jul 94 16:31 By: Don Kulha To: Ben Ringwald Re: Address ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2d97a2 @REPLY: 1:124/4115.251 2e2b8bc8 JG> Simply e-mail me your name and postal mail address JG> and I'll take care of JG> the rest. I can't wait to hear about that roto tiller, Larry. BR> Tried to send my snail address to 1:3611/223 & it BR> bounced. Checked your BR> other Fido address(1:3641/1) & it's not listed in the BR> current node list either. Are these NEW addresses that.... Her address as referenced in the original message is in the internet, the 3600 series fidonet addresses are for a dedicated mail gateway, porting this conference into the newsgroup and mailing list.....DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (129) Sun 17 Jul 94 21:42 By: ARTHUR TORREY To: TONY WEEKS Re: Re: OLD JUNK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> ... And Tony Weeks said unto John Draper <=- TW> On (13 Jul 94) John Draper wrote to Tony Weeks... JD> I have found that a great cleaner for carburetors and injectors, is JD> naptha. Add 1 oz per gallon of gasoline. I will remove the most JD> stubborn coatings of varnish. DO NOT put into anything plastic JD> however, as it will disolve it. You can get naptha at paint stores. TW> I'll have to try it. This could do the trick for cleaning TW> woith out dissemblly. Warning.... WARNING.... Not sure on this, but you should be careful... Many carbs use PLASTIC floats, as well as Viton rubber needle valve tips, and other assorted plastic and rubber O-rings, gaskets and other goodies... Before dumping Naptha or other solvents besides gasoline in your tank, I would make sure ALL that the components in your fuel system are tolerant of it... Otherwise you risk the old spoof laundry advertisement scenario... "I dumped my carb with ugly varnish into new "SUPER KLEANO" detergent, and look, the varnish is still there, but the ugly carb is all gone...." ;-{ ART ... ORGASM.SYS not found. (R)etry, (U)se foreplay, (G)o to sleep? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.03H1 * Origin: The Silver Mage's Guild BBS (CAW) Waltham, MA (1:101/245) @PATH: 101/245 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (130) Thu 21 Jul 94 7:15 By: Terry Goode To: Ian Woofenden Re: Human Powered Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:106/8185.0 2e2e74da @REPLY: 1:101/525.3 dd0a3f9b just reading in the mag Modern Maturity plamer IND. po box 5707 AJ ENDICOTT NJ 13760 1-800-847-1304 40 mile electic 3 wheel bikes & gas powerd quote" palmer's one hand operated ,double & single seat 3 wheelers are gear driven. picture shows a man & woman on this bike,tiller bar stearing ,basket in back for carring things some what larger tires than a bicycle but not much. hope this helps terry g. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: MICON'still under test' BBS (1:106/8185) @PATH: 106/8185 202 449 116 170/400 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (131) Tue 19 Jul 94 19:38 By: Joie Smith To: Gary Pagac Re: Wind power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 1.11 @MSGID: 1:260/675 53cac92c @REPLY: 1:346/35.0 2e28b74c Gary, Do you know of any good books on alternate energy sources. I haven't run across any in the local book stores. Thanks for your help --- FreeMail 1.09 * Origin: NR-W High School BBS [North Rose-Wolcott,NY,USA] (1:260/675) @PATH: 260/675 621 620 2613/5 260/1 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (132) Sat 16 Jul 94 5:14 By: John Nagle To: All Re: Re: Wind power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00034e12 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) @Subject: Re: Wind power @Message-Id: Date: 16 Jul 94 05:14:42 GMT horowitz@cod.nosc.mil (Alan M. Horowitz) writes: >Heat IS mechanical energy. Use the windmill, through some suitable >friction-mediated apparatus, to heat a working fluid. HAve a PV for >electric, or a second, smaller widmill, for a generator. >Examine your usage of electricity. For example, the power involved in >running a washing machine is mostly heating water, pumping the water, >turning the tub, and spinning the tub. All of it mechanical energy. Why >convert mechanical windpower into electricity and re-convert the electricity >into mechanical power, with losses at each stage? The only juice you _need_ >is to operate the timer and the valves. >What electricity is, in a windmill, is a mechanism for accomplishing energy >storage and energy dispensing. Perhaps those two goals make it worthwhile >to accept the losses - perhaps not. It would be kind of cool to have a workshop, let alone a washing machine, powered through overhead line shafting and belts, just like in the steam era, but you'd probably lose more in frictional losses than in a motor/generator system. Plus, those systems are noisy. The New Alchemy Foundation was at one time pushing hydraulic links between windmill and load, but that was before power semiconductors got good. About the only direct-drive windmill application that really makes sense is water pumping. Even for water pumping, a SloPump, a little electric pump that runs over a wide range of input voltages, may beat out an old mechanical wind-powered water pump. John Nagle --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (133) Sat 16 Jul 94 5:24 By: John Nagle To: All Re: Re: Flywheel EV Prototype? Bellevue,WA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00034e3f @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) @Subject: Re: Flywheel EV Prototype? Bellevue,WA @Message-Id: Date: 16 Jul 94 05:24:55 GMT etoler@csn.org (Eric Toler) writes: >Well, since it is my job to supposedly know about these things, I'll give >you my quick blurb. The good math that was posted earlier is a terriffic >example of what happens when good engineering / physics thought meets a >slick PR campaign. American Flywheel System has yet to produce anything >more than vaporware and all the calculations makes one wonder how sharp >AFS' pencil is. Flywheels are a promising, but not yet proven technology. Flywheels for vehicles have been talked up for about two decades now. The earliest real application I heard of was a hybrid system for a bus back in the 1970s. Buses have such a short start-stop cycle that a system that can store power for a minute or two is a big win. The bus described in Popular Science (sorry, no good cite here) had a Diesel engine and a flywheel in vacuum, coupled mechanically through a transmission and suitable controls. Energy in the flywheel was used to accelerate the bus, and braking cranked up the flywheel. The Diesel took care of long-term power needs. One amusing observation was that drivers and passengers found it disconcerting that the engine note wasn't directly related to acceleration. Stepping on the accelerator produced immediate acceleration, but the Diesel didn't rev up until the flywheel speed had reduced enough that the flywheel needed cranking. John Nagle --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (134) Thu 21 Jul 94 14:42 By: Shaun Peahu To: All Re: MAKING MONEY AT HOME IN Y ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=ð WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO ASSEMBLING OR CLERICAL WORK AT HOME? ð=- þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ºMORE INFORMATION WILL BE GIVEN WHEN LETTER IS RECIEVEDº º That's right! All you need to do is work at home in your º º spare time, making $200...$300...$400...$500...OR MORE EACH º º AND EVERY WEEK!!!!! This is not a scam, all you need to do º º is send a Self addressed stamped envelope, and $1.00 to º º Homeworker's Opportunities úsorry, no º º 6680 Kipapa Road information will be givenº º Kapaa, HI 96746 through E-Mail, send to address <--- º ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° Hector Santos/Santronics Software ... DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"... --- via Silver Xpress V3.02 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hawaii OnLine, Lihue, Kauai - (808) 246-8887(M) 1880(V) (1:345/31) @PATH: 345/31 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (135) Thu 21 Jul 94 14:43 By: Shaun Peahu To: All Re: MAKING MONEY AT HOME IN Y ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=ð WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO ASSEMBLING OR CLERICAL WORK AT HOME? ð=- þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ºMORE INFORMATION WILL BE GIVEN WHEN LETTER IS RECIEVEDº º That's right! All you need to do is work at home in your º º spare time, making $200...$300...$400...$500...OR MORE EACH º º AND EVERY WEEK!!!!! This is not a scam, all you need to do º º is send a Self addressed stamped envelope, and $1.00 to º º Homeworker's Opportunities úsorry, no º º 6680 Kipapa Road information will be givenº º Kapaa, HI 96746 through E-Mail, send to address <--- º ²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²²² ±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° Hector Santos/Santronics Software ... DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"... --- via Silver Xpress V3.02 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hawaii OnLine, Lihue, Kauai - (808) 246-8887(M) 1880(V) (1:345/31) @PATH: 345/31 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (136) Tue 19 Jul 94 21:14 By: Bob Paddock To: Jay Farrell Re: Re: Electric Cars legisl ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2601/553.0 2e2c886c JF>Alot of people have been stating that electric cars are JF>just "moving" where the JF>emissions are being put into the environment. (i.e. from the tail pipe to the JF>smoke stack). As if this is a bad thing. JF> It's my understanding that this is a GOOD thing because: JF> It moves the emissions away from the cities, releaving a health problem. Yeap, the new power plant in Scrubgrass Township in Western PA, moved right into some of the most pristine wilderness in the area here, literately into my back yard. Most of the locals were brain washed into believing they'd get jobs from it. It was build by out of state people, and now that the thing is built, they realized that they got shafted. Their property values have plummeted because of the noise, traffic, and light pollution (before you could see stars, now for 20 miles you see a strobe light, and for 5 miles you hear the roar of the pumps). Sure glad the emissions left the city. :-( JF> If the goal of these "standards" is to help create better JF>air quality in our JF>cities, then I'm all for it. Great, instead of cleaning up the cities, lets pollute the country so we can all share the consequences... With that out of my system, I'm going to post some thing that was on HOMEPOWER here not long ago (with minor revisions), for the people that just joined us from Internet: DK>If power in your area is expensive and comes from a DK>coal burning powerplant using an EV might not bring much DK>benefit. If the power comes from a clean source and is DK>cheap it can be a different picture. I find this attitude annoying. It is far easier to 'scrub' one big source of pollution at one single point. Or to look at it in revers how much does it take to clean up each dino-burner out there? On EACH AND EVERY dino-burner engine we add pollution control stuff that decreases milage and increases wight, running that pollution control stuff does TAKE energy to run; it is not free. Your hauling the weight of that pollution control stuff with each dino-burner. A power plant doesn't have to worry about moving its own wight. Also in a direct drive EV you don't have crank case oil, antifreeze (even a few drops are very toxic to animals), or transmission fluid, nor the pollution/energy waste that comes from their manufacture, and transportation (Ever see a power plant spill electricity all over the ground, like a oil tanker [coal being spilled on the way to the plant not withstanding]?). Based on this information will some one tell me how this Coal Burning Powerplant thing keeps being a reason not to switch to EVs? Just to keep things on the up and up here, I feed my family by being involved in the Coal Mining industry. But personally I'm a advocate of Free Energy (a misnomer, lets not let this side track the thread here). The day Free Energy becomes real, Coal Mining will die and I couldn't be happier. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Matric Limited: (814) 437-5647 Franklin, PA HST/DS (1:2601/553) @PATH: 2601/553 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (137) Fri 22 Jul 94 13:35 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Gale Barrows Re: quiet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 7b125885 Since this message apparently go eaten by the FIDO Message Mangler Mutt, I'm gonna take a chance and repost. Seems about four days of messages didn't make it EITHER direction^..^ -> How can a engine such as a Briggs 8-9 horse be muffled for maximum We've put in a great deal of time and effort (to say nothing of welding rod) researching that question. -> considered running the exhaust through a stock muffler and then into a -> ssmall bore automotive muffler. How would that work? Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick..... but. It seems that restrictions are the best muffling elements for those engines that put out such big 'slugs' of exhaust. Our "best" solution so far has been to hard plumb the engine to a LARGE stock automotive muffler using 3/4" galv. water pipe. Arrange to have a foot or more of the pipe crammed into the muffler, with the end of the pipe PLUGGED.(Or capped as you prefer.) To let the exhaust gas OUT of the pipe, we put a LOT of hacksaw cuts in the pipe. Not so deep near the inlet, almost totally across near the capped end. (Put a pipe union at the inlet for ease of servicing.) Then on the OUTPUT end of the muffler we poke another foot of 3/8" pipe inside and weld a washer around it to plug the muffler and restrict the gas-flow further. This makes a big bore Briggs QUIET! We got our idea from the TINY exhaust port on the Honda generators. Now, the REST of the eternal/infernal racket is probably "fin-ring" (the cooling fins) and piston/bearing noise, which will have to be silenced by more traditional noise abatement processes, but at least the exhaust won't be so raucus. -> * Go Armed, Go Safe Amen brother. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (138) Thu 21 Jul 94 17:13 By: Ian Woofenden To: Jim Dunmyer Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 599202d5 On (18 Jul 94) Jim Dunmyer wrote to Ian Woofenden... JD> I don't really know how big to make it...maybe the size of a JD> small chicken coop, 6' X 8' or so? The air inlet should be JD> quite large and baffled, using sound-absorbent material, so JD> that sound cannot escape that way. OK, thanks for the advice. JD> > Any more advice on how to run the exhaust? It's running JD> > about 6 feet JD> I'd make it exit straight UP, and make the stack fairly tall, JD> as in 10 or 12 feet. If there's a chance that rain would get JD> down into the engine, put one of those "flopper" things on JD> the top end. Is straight up just to get the noise farther away, or for other reasons too. Going out the side is less hassle, since you don't have to keep the rain out. Ian ... Talk is cheap... Except when Congress does the talking... --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (139) Thu 21 Jul 94 17:15 By: Ian Woofenden To: Terry goode Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 b41348e1 @REPLY: 1:106/941.0 2e2ac2be On (18 Jul 94) Terry goode wrote to Ian Woofenden... Tg> two things you can do . 1. insulate the your exhaust"pipe" Tg> with a second "larger"pipe to cut the sound. Good idea. I'll need to double it up to go through the wall or roof anyway. Tg> 2. add a sound wall between you and the motor,something like Tg> a divider curtain (think of it like a speaker and you put your Tg> hand in front of it ) it then becomes somewhat muffled. My current shed is fully insulated, but it's too small. When I enlarge it I'll insulate more, and probably use some sort of acoustical something on the walls and ceiling. Tg> sorry i don't express my self well with words. You're not doing too badly. Thanks for taking a crack at it. Ian ... Active member of Computaholics Anonymous. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (140) Mon 4 Jul 94 8:11 By: Phillip Hill To: Bill Basford Re: GOT ANY IDEA???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00004998 @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 2A4D4C09 @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 Regarding: GOT ANY IDEA???? Request Reply: No --------------------------[ Here are your words ]-------------------------- According to some reports I have seen, growing crops specifically to produce alcohol is impractical because it takes more energy for all the plowing, planting, harvesting, transportation, processing, etc., than you can get from the alcohol. Therefore, alcohol fuels are practical only when you can make them from some byproduct that otherwise goes to waste. I'm not sure where I saw this, but I think it was in one of the Worldwatch papers from several years ago. --------------------------[ This is my response ]-------------------------- Growing produce for that purpose IS impractical! BUT using surplus IS practical! How about all that surplus grain and other feed stock that we give away or waste every year. There's enought there (TONS of it) to make SOME headway I am sure. I worked on an alcohol fuel project and it was great. We designed a one-pass still that that gave us 96% pure product. Still was fired by scrap wood and other fuels like corn cobs and saw dust. Feedstock was initially Citrus and other saccharine products (fuit etc) that was damaged donated by grocery stores across the area. This elliminated the need to mill grain and cook so much. We could go directly to the Ph adjustment stage and then the fermentation stage. It was very cost effective. We even experimented with solar stills. They were not nearly as fast but they were effective and CHEAP to operate! I would like to be involved in a project like that again but there is no interest....don't know why :( <<<* Dark Star VI *>>> Collinsville,IL (618)344-9048 v.32bis VBBS 6.?? --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 * Origin: Dark Star VI (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (141) Thu 7 Jul 94 18:40 By: Larry D. Yuengel To: Don Kulha Re: Gating Newsgroups, Help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00005E9E @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 2E1067DA @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 Re: Gating Newsgroups, Help > 0AREA:HOMEPOWR > With the help of Lawrence London in N. Carolina I've formed a new newsgro > on the internet "alt.energy.renewable". Our original intent was to gate the > existing HOMEPOWR echo I moderate into this newsgroup. Unfortunatly the peopl Are you connected with Home Power Mag.? Popeye Metropolis BBS VBBS 6.14 VNet @1618001 East St. Louis, Illinois USA CD-ROM Multi-Line All 14.400! Games Chat And Much More! 618-398-8186 --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 * Origin: Dark Star VI FIDOnet <-> VirtualNET Gateway (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (142) Tue 12 Jul 94 16:31 By: Phillip Hill To: Ian Woofenden Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00004A79 @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 119CEDD7 @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 Regarding: QUIET Request Reply: No --------------------------[ Here are your words ]-------------------------- Some of the larger ones, at least Hondas, are water cooled. I had a loaner once and it was *super* quiet, considerably more quite than my air cooled Honda. I tried a mini version of the barrel in the ground and decided that it wasn't really worth it. I concluded that Honda has the exhaust about as quiet as it's going to get. I took a military style gas can and welded pipe into it and buried it, but the noise level didn't change significantly. Most of the remaining noise was apparently --------------------------[ This is my response ]-------------------------- What I did before was to construct a pit in the ground and place the generator in it. This is not just a pit but a walkin cellar type thing. works really well, can hear it only if you know it's there. <<<* Dark Star VI *>>> Collinsville,IL (618)344-9048 v.32bis VBBS 6.?? --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 * Origin: Dark Star VI (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (143) Sun 10 Jul 94 9:27 By: James Neighbors To: Dave Paxton Re: ELECTRIC BICYCLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 0000206E @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 86D88616 @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 Regarding: IC BICYCLE Request Reply: Yes ÄÄÄÄÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ[ This is what you said ]ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÄÄÄÄ I once saw an old geneerator from a bus or semi once that I tried to wheel and deal for but didn't get it... that would have made one heck of a motor. BIg Dave ÄÄÄÄÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ[ This is my response ]ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÄÄÄÄ One thing I've always wondered.... Can you get the generators from older cars, and use them for wind power? You know, either direct bladed drive, or sppin the generators with belts, gears, etc... There are enough 12 volt appiances out there, one could actually have nothing but 12 volt appliances in their house... My question.. Is this even possible, and is it a feasible idea? The Terminator --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 * Origin: Dark Star VI FIDOnet <-> VirtualNET Gateway (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (144) Sun 17 Jul 94 2:25 By: Larry D. Yuengel To: Tony Weeks Re: 12volts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 0000617C @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 9662AC42 @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 Re: Wind power > In my youth, I was inspired by an antique windmill and had thoughts of > a wind powered home using automotive electrical system parts. If the > cooking and heating was done with natural gas most everything else could > be run on 12 volts. The parts would be cheap and 3 or 4 car batteries > could hold enough power for when the wind is low. Do you know of anyone > that has tried this? I have heard of using auto lights for indoor lighting. Popeye Metropolis BBS VBBS 6.14 VNet @1618001 East St. Louis, Illinois USA CD-ROM Multi-Line All 14.400! Games Chat And Much More! 618-398-8186 --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 5 * Origin: Dark Star VI FIDOnet <-> VirtualNET Gateway (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (145) Fri 22 Jul 94 7:53 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Doug Hoffman Re: RE: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable > generators that can > run on propane? Do they exist, how long do they run on a tank of Doug, Northern Hydraulics has propane generators; expect similar "mileage" as a gasoline-fueled unit or slightly less. Northern is at 800-533-5545. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (146) Sun 17 Jul 94 17:26 By: Michael McNeil To: All Re: Alternate Energy Fieldstudy/Project ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00035a55 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: memcneil@netcom.com (Michael McNeil) @Subject: Alternate Energy Fieldstudy/Project @Message-Id: Date: 17 Jul 94 17:26:38 GMT I have 250 acres in Northern California upon which I would like to create samples of alternate building and energy systems. I am interested in offering classes and fieldstudy projects to create student designed innovations. Is there interest in participation? I would like to see samples of construction from recycled materials, tires, bottles, cans, throwaways. Straw Bale and adobe. Indian lodges, sweats and treehouses. Indigenous rock and tree and bramble. Energy systems of wind, water, solar, biomass, integrated. Please contact me through Michael McNeil e-mail at memcneil@netcom.com T. Scott posted by Michael McNeil memcneil@netcom.com --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (147) Sun 17 Jul 94 17:34 By: John Nagle To: All Re: Re: LED Lamps ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00035a82 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle) @Subject: Re: LED Lamps @Message-Id: Date: 17 Jul 94 17:34:21 GMT Bob.Paddock@f553.n2601.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Paddock) writes: > I've seen many messages here about LED vers >Incandescent, and thought I'd share this letter with you: >"June 27, 1994 > Thank you for you [SIC] interest in Hewlett-Packard >Components and our recent technology announcement of high >performance LEDs using TS AlInGap. >"For the first time in the history of LEDs, these products >surpass the light efficiency of incandescent lights (25 >lumens/watt vs. 15 lumens/watt). This breakthrought [SIC] >technology means that you can now replace incandescent lamps >with LEDs at a comparable cost. Plus you gain the benefit >of LEDs that have an extremely long lifetime. HP is thinking of taillights, not illumination. Flourescents and high-pressure sodium lamps are still way ahead in efficiency. John Nagle --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (148) Mon 18 Jul 94 5:52 By: brop9555 To: All Re: New Efficient EV Motor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00036052 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: brop9555@utdallas.edu @Subject: New Efficient EV Motor @Message-Id: <30d5as$a48@utdallas.edu> Date: 18 Jul 94 05:52:28 GMT In the April issue of Popular Mechanics I saw a DC brushless motor with a new twist. The motor has a slim silhouette shape that measures 2ft. across and only 8 in. wide. The motor has a slim fly-wheel shaped rotor that is embedded with rare earth magnets. The motor puts out 430hp and weighs only 320 lbs. The motor was developed by Kaman Electromagnetics. I interested in getting more information about this motor. Can anyone tell me more about this motor or tell me were I can reach Kaman Electromagnetics? --- * Origin: Usenet:The University of Texas at Dallas (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (149) Mon 18 Jul 94 8:30 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: storing energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00036073 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: storing energy @Message-Id: Date: 18 Jul 94 08:30:50 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 15 Jul 1994, Jamie Barlow wrote: > Does anyone out there know of a good mechanical way of > storing energy.Before the invention of the battery was there > other ways to store energy efficinetly Efficency is relative to the situation I suppose. Solar or geothermal energy has been used for a long time. Thermal mass is an excelent way to store energy directly. Another way to store it might be in the form of a dam to save water for later energy production. DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (150) Mon 18 Jul 94 9:05 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: Home Power!? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003611e @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: Home Power!? @Message-Id: Date: 18 Jul 94 09:05:56 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 7 Jul 1994, Pete Bergstrom wrote: > (Don Kulha) writes: > > I have been sending our friend Lawrence London copies of Home Power > >mag on disk with encouragement and permission of the Perez's. FTP or > >Gopher to sunsite.unc.edu and you will find many back issues available > >there. The text AND article graphics will also be available on CDROM in > >about a week and covers issues 1-37, plus a bunch of other related stuff. > > Does this CDROM have all the copyright issues taken care of? I'd > really like to get it, but the $25 price seems too good to be true. That's true you're right. The price is now $29 postpaid (US) now. We tried to address all the copyright issues. As far as those of Home Power, they are happy as clams that the info is now on CDROM. You can buy it from them too if you like with VISA or MC by calling their subscription line at (916)475-3179. We just parted ways after a superb mexican dinner in Ukiah where the SEER fair just ended. They have a case of CD's and as soon as Kathleen makes it back to Home Power Central from the fair they'd be pleased to sell you one. We are handling mail order sales here (though you can also send those to Home Power if you wish). DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (151) Mon 18 Jul 94 14:55 By: Stan Bischof To: All Re: Re: EV'S 3 OF 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00036635 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: stanb@hpnmrsb2.sr.hp.com (Stan Bischof) @Subject: Re: EV'S 3 OF 4 @Message-Id: Date: 18 Jul 94 14:55:18 GMT @Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) Bill Basford (Bill.Basford@f406.n326.z1.fidonet.org) wrote: : DK>At 10-15 : DK>cents worth of electricity per hour, opportunity charging is one : DK>of the least expensive way to mitigate pollution in congested areas. : DK>Quick-charge stations are intended to be to the EV what the standard : DK>service station is to the ICE car. You pull in, plug in, get a rapid : DK>recharge, and go on your way. : 10 to 15 cents worth of electricity for a Quick charge??? Again, NOT : LIKELY!! 10 to 15 dollars for a quick charge at a restaurant seems more : likely. Easy enough to estimate: Around here 10 cents will get you perhaps 2kWh worth. That's about 3HP-hours. And that's at off-peak rates. Anyhow, ask yourself how far you could drive something bigger than a skateboard with 3HP-hours worth of energy. Really slick small car might take as little as 10HP to keep going on freeway at say 50MPH. Then your dime will get you approx 15 miles or so before your next 'quick stop charge'. -- Stan Bischof Hewlett Packard Sonoma County --- * Origin: Usenet:HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (152) Mon 18 Jul 94 18:02 By: Russ Brown To: All Re: Re: Energy Balance of Ethanol ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00036b06 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown) @Subject: Re: Energy Balance of Ethanol @Message-Id: <1994Jul18.180242.21015@pmafire.inel.gov> Date: 18 Jul 94 18:02:42 GMT In article , Henry H Rogers wrote: >This text is from a paper written by Dr. Roger K. Conway, Dr. >John McClelland, and Dr. Hosein Shapouri (all of US Dept. of >Agriculture, Office of Energy) and Dr. Michael S. Graboski of >Colorado School of Mines. For more information about the >ethanol/methanol debate contact the American Biofuels Association, >1925 North Lynn Street, Suite 1000, Arligton, VA 22209, (703) 522-3392. > > > AN ANALYSIS OF THE TOTAL ENERGY REQUIREMENTS FOR > ETHANOL MANUFACTURE FROM CORN > > 1/31/94 > > The purpose of this report is to provide a more comprehensive >analysis of the energy requirements to produce ethanol from corn via both >wet milling and dry milling ethanol conversion technologies. stuff deleted. > > More importantly, corn based ethanol can be used to produce liquid >fuels for transportation at high multiples of total petroleum based liquid >fuels used in the overall ethanol cycle. We estimate that the same amount >of crude necessary to produce a BTU of gasoline can produce over eight BTU's >of ethanol. Thus, from a liquid fuel utilization point of view, ethanol can >be used to extend our domestic crude reserves by a factor of eight, at least, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >or similarly reduce our import requirements. There is something radically wrong with this analysis, perhaps in the qualifiers. Previous reports have indicated that ethanol production is a net energy loser...and can only be economically viable with a tax subsidy. With an 8-fold advantage, ethanol producers should be getting rich. Perhaps the refinery process is charged for the primary energy value of petroleum instead of the energy cost of acquiring it. If so, and this is only speculation, then this claim is an accountant's game. More info would be welcome. russ --- * Origin: Usenet:WINCO (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (153) Sat 23 Jul 94 7:44 By: Terry Buyers To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Egt? Get? Teg? Gte? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3624/7@fidonet.org 4440511f @REPLY: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 7a80d092 In a msg on , Elvis Hargrove of 1:397/6@fidonet.org writes: EH> -> Where'd you get the plans? EH> -> EGT? Whazzat? EH> Boy, your just FULL of questions aren't you! EH> The Shadow Knows PV tracker is my own design. I'll build almost EH> ANYTHING from scratch without any sign of plans. (Comes to EH> me in my sleep mostly....) EH> (E)xhaust (G)as (T)emperature sensor. Expensive as heck for EH> aircraft. Used to set the mixture to optimum for best engine EH> efficiency. EH> Cheap as the dickens from plumbing supply stores and QUITE useful EH> for adjusting LPG and natural gas fueled engines for max life EH> and efficiency. Hmmm... means I could run a pair - one in front of each glass pack - across a wheatstone bridge type circuit and meter to balance mixture on both sides of the block? What's the voltage/amperage output of one of those things? How much of the 'tail' is necessary for hookup? Thanks... --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox (803)652-3760 PRNet/SC SURVNet (1:3624/7) @PATH: 3624/7 3603/20 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (154) Sat 23 Jul 94 12:15 By: Tony Weeks To: John Draper Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:105/40.357 453b542c @REPLY: 1:105/40.357 1617d35a On (19 Jul 94) John Draper wrote to Tony Weeks... JD> This had to been a least 10 years ago....I believe the guy lived in JD> the backwoods of Maine. I thought the concept was great. He had two JD> engines; one would be on line, while the other one was on standby. He JD> would run one for a period of time, and do maintenance on the other. JD> I was thinking if you would use a vapor carburetor, and a good JD> friction reducing oil, the cost of operation would really be low. All carburetors are vapor carburetors! That's what a carb does, vaporize fuel because droplets of fuel won't burn efficiently. Miracle vapor carburetors are a myth. Since methane is already a gas a natural gas carb would be required. As for for friction reducing oil, again that's the definition of oil and oils like Slick-50 may (and this is a big maybe) add life to the engine but any improvment in efficiency will be almost unnoticeable. I really like the methane idea but I don't know where to get more info on building such a setup. My father sold the farm so I don'd have a place to experiment with such a set up anyway and I'm wasn't ready to move back to the sticks either. Tony ... Bei Nacht alle Katzen sind grau. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Down and out in Portland, Oregon. (1:105/40.357) @PATH: 105/40 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (155) Sat 23 Jul 94 12:29 By: Tony Weeks To: ARTHUR TORREY Re: OLD JUNK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:105/40.357 c795e08b AT> JD> naptha. Add 1 oz per gallon of gasoline. I will remove the most AT> JD> stubborn coatings of varnish. DO NOT put into anything plastic AT> JD> however, as it will disolve it. You can get naptha at paint stores. AT> AT> TW> I'll have to try it. This could do the trick for cleaning AT> TW> woith out dissemblly. AT> AT> Warning.... WARNING.... AT> AT> Not sure on this, but you should be careful... Many carbs use AT> PLASTIC floats, as well as Viton rubber needle valve tips, and AT> other assorted plastic and rubber O-rings, gaskets and other AT> goodies... Before dumping Naptha or other solvents AT> besides gasoline in your tank, I would make sure ALL that the AT> components in your fuel system are tolerant of it... I was planning on experimenting with some carbs that need rebuilding anyway. You see, I've already rebuilt more carbs than most folks see in a life time. Tony ... Mit pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Down and out in Portland, Oregon. (1:105/40.357) @PATH: 105/40 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (156) Sat 23 Jul 94 13:08 By: Tony Weeks To: Don Kulha Re: Wind power/batteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:105/40.357 28eea85b On (19 Jul 94) Don Kulha wrote to Tony Weeks... DK>TW> In my youth, I was inspired by an antique windmill and had thoughts of DK>TW> a wind powered home using automotive electrical system parts. If the DK>TW> cooking and heating was done with natural gas most everything else DK>TW> could be run on 12 volts. The parts would be cheap and 3 or 4 car DK>TW> batteries could hold enough power for when the wind is low. Do DK>TW> you know of anyone that has tried this? DK> DK> Tony, LOTS of folks are living and working off the grid. One of DK> the first lessons (that folks seem to relearn quite often) is that car DK> batteries are a very poor investment. They are meant for "float" DK> conditions where they are shallow discharged to start a car and nearly DK> immediatly refilled to full. You need a deep discharge battery, at DK> least a gold cart or marine trolling type, better a true deep DK> discharge such as the "L-16" type (6v-350ah). Dependant on how you DK> truely used/recharged a car battery it might only last 6 months (or DK> less). Forgive me my lack of attention to the subject. I was more interested in finding if using cheap alternators would work. I know the difference between a car batter and a deep-cycle battery. I used to have half interest in a auto battery shop and we sold deep-cycle batteries but I've always thought of them as another flavor of car batteries. DK> Wind power is immently practical but you have to fully assess the DK> site of a potential windplant. There was a Bergy 850 on a 60 foot mast DK> at SEER which made power maybe 2 hours/day...maybe 1500 watts/day. DK> Some places it would make more, others a lot less. Paul Gipe (sp?) put DK> out an excellent book "Wind Power for Home and Business" which you DK> want to buy prior to buying and planning a wind power system. It'll be awhile now. I was going to put it up on my father's place in the hills of Sheridan, OR but he has sold the farm and id moving in town. Tony ... Bei Nacht alle Katzen sind grau. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Down and out in Portland, Oregon. (1:105/40.357) @PATH: 105/40 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (157) Sat 23 Jul 94 12:47 By: Tony Weeks To: Jim Dunmyer Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:105/40.357 f917769b On (20 Jul 94) Jim Dunmyer wrote to Ken Bridges... JD> > JD> (55-gallon drum) buried in the earth. Of course, that's not JD> > JD> too portable. :-) JD> > JD> > I'd love to hear how this would work, it would sure quite down JD> > my generator :) JD> JD> Just bury a drum and run the exhaust into it, Ken. Naturally, you also JD> need an outlet pipe. :-) The idea of any muffler is to smooth out the JD> natural pulsations of the exhaust and make it into a steady "whoosh"; JD> if your outlet pipe is large, the "whoosh" would be quite subdued. You JD> might want some baffles in the drum, or try Ian's idea of filling the JD> drum with large rocks. Rocks won't help what you need is baffles. A 55 gallon drum isn't necessary the idea behind burrying the drun is to quell the vibrations of the walls of the drum. An 18 gallon drum should work fine if it's baffled. With out baffles it would be like a cherri bomb muffler, straight through unless the rocks were over 12" in diameter (small boulders, gravel wouldn't do.) Baffled ASCII drum _________________________________ | | | | ---+ | | | ---+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--- | | +--- |_______________|_________________| Well you get the picture. You need to cut 3 or 4 half circles of sheet steel and then weld, braze or pop-rivet them in. Since you're going to bury it anyway small leaks shouldn't be a problem. ... Plagiarize, but please call it research! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: Down and out in Portland, Oregon. (1:105/40.357) @PATH: 105/40 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (158) Thu 21 Jul 94 2:09 By: Larry D. Yuengel To: Paul Leventhal Re: Electric Cars Go Home ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00006884 @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 0002ED9D @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 9 Re: Electric Cars Go Home > Can we please keep the electric cars threads on sci.energy? They already You maybe right but it sure is good to see that so many people are interested in EC's...maybe the "big three" should be logged on. :} Popeye Metropolis BBS VBBS 6.14 VNet @1618001 East St. Louis, Illinois USA CD-ROM Multi-Line All 14.400! Games Chat And Much More! 618-398-8186 --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 9 * Origin: Dark Star VI FIDOnet <-> VirtualNET Gateway (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (159) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:00 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Bill Basford Re: Lubricants For Fuel Effi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2df2c0 - Speaking of lubricants for fuel efficiency, has anyone on this BB> conference had any experience with those Teflon oil additives that BB> promise to reduce engine friction, prolong engine life and improve BB> fuel mileage? We've tried Slick-50 in our '79 Ford 460 1-ton van. It ran a little cooler, idled a little smoother, and I think the mileage went from 8 mpg to maybe 8.5 mpg. There were probably 105,000 or 110,000 miles on it at the time. I have no idea what the long-term effects of it are. We use 15W-40 oil in the summer and 10W-30 in the winter. Jeff ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (160) Tue 12 Jul 94 8:37 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Gale Barrows Re: UPS Systems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e228e6e - Have you looked at or tryed the "Optima" gel cell batteries? I call GB> them "six-pack-batteries" because they look somewhat like a six-pack of GB> beverage cans. The "plates" are wrapped like a roll of paper rather GB> than being flat. They do seem somewhat more vibration and shock GB> resistant than normal lead-acid batteries and can be used even upside GB> down as there is no liquid to leak. In the 5 years I have had one GB> installed in a vehicle, there has been no corrosion on the posts, GB> connections, or steel battery box. These batteries are not advertised GB> as deep cycle but several aquantainces have been using them heavily and GB> successfuly as such for years. Gates formerly built and distributed GB> them. They are also avilable a 6 volt, 24 volt, and 2 volt units. Can you tell me where to get info on these? Especially the 24v units. What's the highest amp-hrs you can get? Jeff ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (161) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:00 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Don Kulha Re: Fuel Efficency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2df2c4 - I captured a file off the internet on Australian battery DK> research but don't recall the details (think I got it off ERIN). DK> It's there....I'll dig it up and look it over...if DK> appro I'll post it to the conference... Thanks, appreciate it. DK> Price will be $29 postpaid...pre-orders till 7/10 DK> are $25 (....it's an expensive undertaking, would DK> be nice to have some cash flow). I'll have to wait to at least the end of the summer. :-( Jeff ... I drive a mussel car -- with overhead clams. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (162) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:00 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Don Kulha Re: Efficient Fuel Use ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2df2c6 - Better to have a small fuel efficient vehicle to use DK> when the capacity of your humungous Ford van isn't needed. I totally agree. Our gas bill goes down 60% when we use our 20 mpg monster car for most traveling, as opposed to using the van for it all. DK> Guess it boils down again to using the right DK> tool for the job (...per usual). Yep. An electric would do us just fine for most of our needs. Jeff ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (163) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:00 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Gale Barrows Re: electric car heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2df2c8 - You might also contact Shadetree Salvage, Passaic, Missouri, Ok, thanks for the info. Jeff ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (164) Thu 21 Jul 94 0:00 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Jim Dunmyer Re: Electric Car Heater ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e2df2ca - Sure do love my VW Diesels. <> Sounds like you really pile on the miles. I wish we has a VW Diesel or an electric. Either one would do us fine. :-) Jeff ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (165) Sat 23 Jul 94 21:42 By: Russ Parks To: Jamie Barlow Re: storing energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:170/110.12 e31c7fa0 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 00033da2 @PID: SpamMail Jamie Barlow quipped to All, and I quote: JB> Does anyone out there know of a good mechanical way of storing JB> energy.Before the invention of the battery was there other ways to JB> store energy efficinetly Flywheels are being used on some mass transit bus systems. The normally 'wasted' energy while decelerating is used later for acceleration. E Pluribus Unix, Russ ...Simple. Change the gravitational constant of the universe. -- Q --- EZQuote 4.0 * Origin: russ.parks@p12.f110.n170.z1.fidonet.org (1:170/110.12) @PATH: 170/110 100 400 209/209 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (166) Wed 20 Jul 94 13:33 By: don walli To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00037c8c @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dwalli@mtu.edu (don walli) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: <30j93a$dk2@mtu.edu> Date: 20 Jul 94 13:33:30 GMT @Sender: dwalli@labmailsrvr.hu.mtu.edu Everyone in this thread seems to have touched on, and subsequently ignored, what seems to be the most likely (most logical? maybe) solution for this whole process, and that's an overall systems approach. By that, I mean using a system of several different technologies to solve the problem (in this case, vehicular power). Most people here are insisting that we need powerplants (coal- or gas-fired, or fission) to generate the energy needed to derive H2 (assumed from water). What about using solar (PV cell) power to drive the electrolysis modules? Yes, you have the initial outlay needed to build the cells, but electrolysis can happen at *very* low voltages, so really high power output is not absolutely essential. And even if your PV cells aren't highly efficient--so what??? The sun is still *free*. Ross hasn't figured out a way to bill us for that one yet. So now you have H2, and you're (rightly) concerned about the potential output of an H2-powered IC engine. What about using a fuel cell instead? Your waste output (with the exception of the eventually-depleted catalyst) is very low, and now you have electric power in your vehicle (or home, or municipality, or whereever you set up the fuel cells. And, yes, the fuel cell does introduce some more losses (as the affordable ones are not all that efficient). However,I would think that those losses might (*might*) be acceptable when you consider that the overall system here does not require the use of any non-renewable resources (in the generation of the fuel, anyway). I have *not* worked out all the numbers here yet, as I'm just getting into this whole idea. If anyone would care to go through the hassle, I would be overjoyed to work with you (provide any info I can find, clarify my outline above, &c.) on refining it. And thanks for providing one of the best newsgroups I've read in a long, long time. || Donald J. Walli Rhetoric and Technical Communication || || dwalli@mtu.edu Michigan Technological University || --- * Origin: Usenet:Michigan Tech - RTC program (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (167) Sun 24 Jul 94 22:42 By: Gary Pagac To: Joie Smith Re: Wind power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:346/35.0 2e332678 On 07-19-94 Joie Smith wrote to Gary Pagac... JS> Gary, JS> Do you know of any good books on alternate energy sources. Well, unfortunately i cannot say i do know any one good book. I have come across some in the past, however. A good school or public library will probably be more likely to have what you want. Plus, you can usually check by book title in a computer. ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * SpokAne, The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area! --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Moonflower (1:346/35) @PATH: 346/35 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (168) Sun 24 Jul 94 17:07 By: Chris Clark To: Shaun Peahu Re: Re: MAKING MONEY AT HOME IN Y ---------------------------------------------------------------------- why is this in the home power area? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: DownTown BBS -- Durham, Nawth Car'lina 919-383-4905 (1:3641/220) @PATH: 3641/220 151/1003 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (169) Fri 22 Jul 94 13:32 By: Ian Woofenden To: Doug Hoffman Re: Propane generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 9fc34a1e @REPLY: 1:3641/223 00031d64 On (11 Jul 94) Doug Hoffman wrote to All... DH> On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable DH> generators that can run on propane? Do they exist, how long DH> do they run on a tank of gas, do they cost more than DH> gasoline, etc? Don't know about *portable* ones, but I've seen ones in AE catalogs in the range of 5 KW that are built for propane. Or you can have a conversion done for a few hundred bucks. They tend to be a bit more expensive, and the fuel consumption is going to be 10-20% more than gasoline, from what I've heard. Engines that run on propane are supposed to last a lot longer, due to the fuel being cleaner. Better on the air too. And I find that it's much easier to let the guy fill my 300 gal tank than to deal with cans of gas every several hours. But I don't know if it would be worth bothering with if you are really talking about a portable gen. No expert here, but questions are welcome, as I do run a homebuilt DC gen on propane. Ian ... Whenever experts agree.... they may be in error! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (170) Fri 22 Jul 94 13:39 By: Ian Woofenden To: All Re: anybody tried the new Trace? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 59097f72 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 000329af On (13 Jul 94) MShadowfax wrote to All... M > "I'm looking to buy THE inverter for my remote adobe. What's M > the new Trace 4000w like in real world usage? I don't know about the new ones, but if they are an improvement on the old ones, they must be *great*! I've been using their 2024 for almost ten years with absolutely no trouble - a great piece of equipment. (The only trouble I've had that I can think of is my Sharp copier doesn't seem to like its power and needs service more than I think it should. But I wouldn't be surprised if the new ones have changed the wave form and are better on this front.) At any rate, my experience with Trace - people and equipment - is all good. Ian ... If you're not confused, you're not paying attention. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (171) Fri 22 Jul 94 13:44 By: Ian Woofenden To: Russ Parks Re: Dymaxion house ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 bcad490b @REPLY: 1:170/110.12 e2cc1471 On (20 Jul 94) Russ Parks wrote to All... RP> Anyone know where/how to find information on the Dymaxion RP> house design of R. Buckminster Fuller? You could try contacting The Buckminster Fuller Institute 2040 Alameda Padre Serra Suite 224 Santa Barbara, CA 93103 phone: 805-962-0022 fax: 805-962-4440 Ian ... My *other* word processor is a #2 pencil. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (172) Sun 24 Jul 94 14:37 By: Dave Paxton To: James Neighbors Re: ELECTRIC BICYCLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 86EA7F24 JN>I once saw an old geneerator from a bus or semi once that I tried to JN>wheel and deal for but didn't get it... that would have made one heck of JN>a motor. JN>BIg Dave JN> ---------------------------[ This is my response ]----------------------- JN>One thing I've always wondered.... Can you get the generators from older JN>cars, and use them for wind power? You know, either direct bladed JN>drive, or sppin the generators with belts, gears, etc... There are enough 1 JN>volt appiances out there, one could actually have nothing but 12 volt JN>appliances in their house... My question.. Is this even possible, and is i JN>a feasible idea? Yes, it is possible... but why? The newer alternators are much more efficient. They produce more at lower speeds. If you use an old generator you would need to turn it at a minimum of 5 times the rpm you would need to turn the alternator The only reason I would keep old generators arround is that they usually make fairly decent motor when wired properly and they can be set up to actually generate voltage when not used as a motor. My first choice for a 12 volt wind system would be a permenet magnet system like those found as "flywheel alternators" on small engines and outboards. Even if the batteries are completely dead, they produce electricity with the first breeze. No "exciteing current" needed. They can be found in 24 volt also. Usually 12 volt and usually either 15 amp or 30 to 50 amp chargeing systems. Yes again, it is feasable to use 12 volt appliances in the house. Many and various devices are available for either cars or campers that would outfit such a house well. Stoves/ovens could be gas, no problem, as well as water heaters. Refers and freezers could be gas or 12 volt absorbtion systems. The main draw back is that DC is a little different in that running wires all over a large house could add enough resistance that the end voltage drop might be a problem. Also, switching might prove to be a slight problem. If you use 12 volt lights and install normal switches in the wall to turn them on and off the contacts in the switches may give you a problem. One of the tecnical people on this echo could probably explain why. I have heard that placeing a capacitor accross the switch can help cure the problem. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * You can check out but you can never leave! --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-771-0041 (1:369/3) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (173) Sun 24 Jul 94 15:22 By: Dave Paxton To: Davehatunen Re: Re: Wind power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 86EA7F25 DA>This sort of thing was actually pretty common out in the boonies before DA>the coming of the power grid. There are probably still some DA>self-sufficiency types out there who do it, mostly jury-rigging the DA>stuff. Might burn wood instead of propane or LNG, though. Ah yes, the good ol days that were the hayday of the Jacobs wind mill company.Might also consider wood and methane gas produced by the homeowner for little or no investment. True, a big digester could be a big investment but small "homestead" set ups have been concocted fairly cheaply to get the gas flowing for a while while a main digester is assembled. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * Decibel: 10 beautiful southern women --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-771-0041 (1:369/3) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (174) Fri 22 Jul 94 8:00 By: Lewis Cosper To: Jim Dunmyer Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 6587f336 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Jim, > I'm familiar with how you sync conventional alternators to an > existing AC source. How does one do that? Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (175) Fri 22 Jul 94 8:01 By: Lewis Cosper To: Dave Skinner Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 6587f337 @REPLY: 1:105/711.0 2e289c20 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Dave, > There has been lots of messages in sci.energy that imply that > the total emissions are *much* larger for ev's than regular old > ICE. Want to enlighten as to how they come to that conclusion? Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (176) Fri 22 Jul 94 8:06 By: Lewis Cosper To: Jim Dunmyer Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 65881b05 @PID: FM 2.02 > drawing it out. It plain will not function at all without power > being applied, at least to start with; there's some discussion > as to whether it might continue to generate electricity once > started. Hi Jim, Ok all ready. You are beginning to get my interest up. Never paid much attention to electric motors except to hook them up to my various power tools. You have any suggestion for reference books on the subject? Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 105/30 50 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (177) Wed 20 Jul 94 19:10 By: Stan Bischof To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000386e3 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: stanb@hpnmrsb2.sr.hp.com (Stan Bischof) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 20 Jul 94 19:10:57 GMT @Sender: news@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (News Administrator) don walli (dwalli@mtu.edu) wrote: : What about using solar (PV cell) power to drive the electrolysis : modules? : Yes, you have the initial outlay needed to build the cells, but : electrolysis : can happen at *very* low voltages, so really high power output is not : absolutely essential. And even if your PV cells aren't highly : efficient--so : what??? The sun is still *free*. Ross hasn't figured out a way to bill : us for that one yet. Well- I'll let you answer that "so what?" for yourself.. Let's say that solar cells are 100% efficient yet cost $1000 per watt installed. The 'fuel' - sunlight - is free. How much would you sell me your electricity for? On a good day you might get me to pay 10 cents per kilowatt hour- which is based upon what I can already get electricity for. Now you install for $1000 a single one watt cell and start pumping juice out to me. Well, every thousand hours of daylight I'll send you a dime. Good deal right- after all the sun is free? The astute observer may notice that I'll be sending something like 30 cents per year so in about 3000 years you might be able to pay back your initial investment. (Though of course the cells will die in a decade or so anyhow- but that's another story.) (And of course a .003 % return on your kilobuck investment might not be considered exactly stellar- but that's yet another story.) Basically you have fallen into a very common trap for solar enthusiasts-- the 'fuel' may be free, but that becomes almost irrelevant to the cost of producing electricity. Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with solar- just that it's easy to ignore economics when presented with seemingly great deals! -- Stan Bischof Hewlett Packard Sonoma County Finally- BTW- the fuel is cheap but definitely not free, since to use it you must likely own the land under which the cells are sitting. Just try intercepting the sunlight which hits someone else's property and see how long before you have a lawsuit. --- * Origin: Usenet:HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID) (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (178) Wed 20 Jul 94 22:21 By: James W Dille To: All Re: Re: EV's 3 of 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00038b3e @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: jwd@cec1.wustl.edu (James W Dille) @Subject: Re: EV's 3 of 4 @Message-Id: <30k81t$kfr@bigfoot.wustl.edu> Date: 20 Jul 94 22:21:49 GMT The pack exchange idea sounds workable, but if, as I have heard, it will $4,000 per year to keep oneself in batteries (on the average), with pack exchange that cost will still have to be borne by someone. If you exchange packs 100 times a year, wouldn't the fee have to be at least $40 a shot? And if an exchange will take you another 100 miles, it's pretty expensive and slow going. --- * Origin: Usenet:Washington University, St. Louis, MO (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (179) Wed 20 Jul 94 21:35 By: Dean Weiten To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00038b4e @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dmw@access.mbnet.mb.ca (Dean Weiten) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics @Message-Id: <30k5ai$1gt@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Date: 20 Jul 94 21:35:14 GMT IMHO, it would be much easier on the environment if we had a few well tuned and well maintained power plants upon which we could put very expensive emission controls (and make them work), rather than having the millions of poorly-tuned ICE automobiles running around with chokes stuck on, cold catalytic converters (I have heard that most catalytic converters don't do much good - the cars don't warm up enough to make them work), and the like. Of course, where I come from (Manitoba, Canada), we are lucky enough to be able to generate electricity from hydraulic sources - but we have also found this not to be quite non-polluting, as several northern native groups can attest. In my ideal world, all power sources would be non-polluting, and IMHO, they would likely be producing electricity. Dean Weiten dmw@Vansco.MB.CA --- * Origin: Usenet:The University of Manitoba (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (180) Wed 20 Jul 94 22:42 By: Nick Lindert To: All Re: electric scooters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00038fb8 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: nlindert@ichips.intel.com (Nick Lindert) @Subject: electric scooters @Message-Id: <30k981$t29@news.jf.intel.com> Date: 20 Jul 94 22:42:09 GMT I once heard of someone having an electric scooter. Does anyone have details on one of these? Who sells them? Cost? etc. -- Nick Lindert Mailstop: JF1-19 Home: (503)614-0731 Work: (503)696-9074 --- * Origin: Usenet:Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (181) Thu 21 Jul 94 2:44 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 000391a7 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 21 Jul 94 02:44:56 GMT In article <30j93a$dk2@mtu.edu>, don walli wrote: [...] >Most people here are insisting that we need powerplants (coal- or >gas-fired, or fission) to generate the energy needed to derive H2 >(assumed from water). >What about using solar (PV cell) power to drive the electrolysi modules? >Yes, you have the initial outlay needed to build the cells, but electrolysis >can happen at *very* low voltages, so really high power output is not >absolutely essential. And even if your PV cells aren't highly efficient--so >what??? The sun is still *free*. Ross hasn't figured out a way to bill >us for that one yet. I seem to keep repeating this everywhere: ALL energy is free. It's the cost of getting it that makes it expensive. The oil is just lying in the ground, free for the taking. So is the coal. So is the uranium. If you knew anything about capitalization and amortization, you might not blow off the cost of the installation so esily. In any case, the output has to be greater than the amount of energy you expect to get from the hydrogen. >So now you have H2, and you're (rightly) concerned about the potential >output of an H2-powered IC engine. What about using a fuel cell >instead? Your waste >output (with the exception of the eventually-depleted catalyst) is very >low, >and now you have electric power in your vehicle (or home, or >municipality, or whereever you set up the fuel cells. And, yes, the >fuel cell does introduce some more losses (as the affordable ones are >not all that efficient). However,I would think that those losses might >(*might*) be acceptable when >you consider that the overall system here does not require the use of >any non-renewable resources (in the generation of the fuel, anyway). Every loss of energy here is energy that had to be generated back at the solar cells. >I have *not* worked out all the numbers here yet, as I'm just getting >into this whole idea. I can tell. >If anyone would care to go through the hassle, I would be >overjoyed to work with you (provide any info I can find, clarify my >outline above, &c.) on refining it. I really think you need to do the calcs, as an exercise. -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (182) Sun 24 Jul 94 15:36 By: Don Kulha To: Larry D. Yuengel Re: Home Power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32c2b0 @REPLY: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00005E9E > With the help of Lawrence London in N. Carolina > I've formed a new newsgroup > on the internet "alt.energy.renewable". Our original > intent was to gate the > existing HOMEPOWR echo I moderate into this > newsgroup..... LDY> Are you connected with Home Power Mag.? A little....They're friends and my subscription has a tendancy to automagically get renewed gratis. I've writtern an article for the next Home Power coming out momentarily; that's a freebie. Oh yeah, forgot, Went out to dinner with them last Sunday when SEER wrapped up. They bought dinner. That's about the extent of my connection (ie., not much...). The great work that Richard, Karen, Therese, Chris, Kathleen and others do with Home Power inspired me to create the HOMEPOWR echoconference in Fidonet three years ago which is now one leg on our international conference now. Their practical, hands-on, earth friendly approach to energy as portrayed by Home Power Magazine served as a model for the original conference. Due to their remote location and difficulty sending data over their radio telephone link they haven't been able to directly participate but likely will soon. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (183) Sun 24 Jul 94 16:13 By: Don Kulha To: Phillip Hill Re: Solar Alky Stills ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32cb86 @REPLY: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00004998 PH> Growing produce for that purpose IS impractical! BUT using surplus IS PH> practical! How about all that surplus grain and other feed stock that we PH> give away or waste every year. There's enought there (TONS of it) to make PH> SOME headway I'm sure. I worked on an alcohol fuel project; it was great. PH> We designed a one-pass still that that gave us 96% pure product.Still was PH> fired by scrap wood and other fuels like corn cobs and saw dust. Feedstock PH> was initially Citrus and other saccharine products (fuit etc) that was PH> damaged donated by grocery stores across the area.This eliminated the need PH> to mill grain and cook so much. We could go directly to the Ph adjustment PH> stage and then the fermentation stage.It was very cost effective.We even PH> experimented with solar stills.They were not nearly as fast but they were PH> effective and CHEAP to operate! I would like to be involved in a project PH> like that again but there is no interest....don't know why :( I suspect most of us just don't know enough about it. If you have any info references for plans or dealers of equipment to setup small scale distillation systems I'm sure lots of us would be interested. I've heard Browns Motor Fuel book is a classic reference. Can you tell us what's required for a small scale still and what the process involves? The last still had anything to do with was in science class 8th grade.... Thanks, DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (184) Sun 24 Jul 94 17:58 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Sri Lanka ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32e412 From Darkness to Light with the Power of the Sun Lalith Gunaratne 1993 Lalith Gunaratne We've brought a gift for you, said Gunaratne Bandara, the agricultural field officer, to a 14-year-old girl, Dayani, who had just returned home from the village school. She was impatient to find what the gift was. A SUNTEC, he answered to her excited query. Over the radio Dayani had heard of SUNTEC, the generic name for solar power in Sri Lanka, and she knew it was the latest way of generating electricity from the sun. Piyasena and Soma, the parents of Dayani and four younger children, own a simple home in a remote village called Deniya in the deep south of Sri Lanka. The family owns two acres of wet land where rice paddy is cultivated. They also grow bananas in a quarter acre of dry land. Their annual income is about $2000 U.S. per year, which affords them a relatively comfortable life. Being situated in a distant region has deprived this family of government-provided grid electricity. Even if the power lines came near their home, its thatched roof disqualifies the house from getting electric power due to safety regulations. The only source of power they have is kerosene, which is used to light a few lamps. Dangers of kerosene use are well known. Often, from careless handling of lamps, village homes are burned down causing death and destruction. So, when Piyasena was chosen by the area agricultural field officer to get a Suntec solar electric system as a demonstrator for the village, he could not contain his excitement. Like a little child when given a toy, he jumped for joy and ran off to inform his wife. That afternoon, the news had spread that Piyasena+s house was getting a SUNTEC. This became an event for the village. The neighbors had all gathered in the usual community spirit to share the happiness with the Piyasena family, and Soma cooked a feast for all. By the evening, the system was installed and like magic the lights were switched on. Piyasena and family had a happy glow on their faces as they entertained their guests to food and drinks. The neighbors commented on how the usual dark surroundings had been lit by Piyasena's home. They also pondered with awe, how the sun had given them electricity. From that evening, Piyasena could operate a few fluorescent lamps and even power his radio, which had previously operated with costly dry cell batteries. The system also produces sufficient power to run a small black-and-white television set which he plans to purchase in the near future. How we in the city take the switch on the wall so much for granted! Imagine living without electric power. Two billion people around the world grope around in the dark after sunset. They have no access to power because they are too far away from the city. Often, they are the backbone of many developing world agricultural economies. Yet, they are left behind due to the high cost of drawing power lines to their areas. Solar power is fast becoming a way of solving the immediate energy problems of the rural masses of the developing world. The ease of installation, maintenance and use of solar systems along with its environmentally benign nature, make PVs very appropriate. Another advantage is that the systems are modular, so when Piyasena wants to increase his available power, he can simply add on solar modules. Solar power already powering a few thousand homes in Sri Lanka is poised to play a significant role in rural electrification as more and more people are opting for it. Piyasena always viewed the sun with reverence. He knew that the sun is the single most important source of energy the lifeline to everything that has ever inhabited the earth. So, the almighty sun+s providing the little energy he needs only strengthens his veneration. As sure as the rising sun, it has brought him light by night. Access Lalith Gunaratne, Joint Managing Director, Power & Sun (Pvt) Ltd., 338 T.B. Jayah Mawatha, Colombo 10, Sri Lanka 686307 FAX 575599 Born in Sri Lanka, Lalith Gunaratne resided in Canada until 1984. Then, he with two other Sri Lankan born Canadians, Pradip Jayewardene and Viren Perera, moved to Sri Lanka with the idea of applying solar technology to serve the rural population. About 70% of Sri Lankans do not have access to power. After much research, the three founded Power & Sun, which is the only manufacturer of PV modules (SUNTEC) and system components in Sri Lanka. Article Courtesy of and Copyright by Home Power Magazine PO Box 520, Ashland OR 97520, Pub 6x/yr, $15 US, $20 Int. Editorial 916.475.3179, Subs & Back Issues 916.475.0830 Note: This article is from an early issue; things change. Online Archives: SOL-BBS 707.545.0746 & HP-BBS 707.822.8640 Also available on SOLAR-1 CDROM from Home Power Magazine --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (185) Sun 24 Jul 94 18:01 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Sol Cooker 1 of 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32e4b6 A Kitchen in the Sun Therese Peffer We've all heard the saying about too many cooks in the kitchen. But what happens when you move your kitchen into the sun? You get a myriad of solar cooker designs, great food, and lots of fun in the sun. We found this out recently at Home Power's 2nd Annual Solar Cooking Contest. Last February, we offered a challenge to our readers: design and build a simple, cheap, and easy to use solar cooker that works well. The rules were simple: the cooker had to cook, meaning it should boil water. The cooker should use common tools and materials appropriate to your area. Durability, and easy duplication would score high points. And our readers responded. We received twelve cooker designs for the contest. Of these twelve, three contestants sent their cookers. Two of the designs arrived at the contest with their designers. We built three of the designs for a total of eight entries in the contest. (We built the designs appropriate to the contest + original designs that were easy to duplicate with complete instructions). The day of the contest Saturday, July 31, dawned clear and bright + a beautiful day for the cooking contest. By nine am, solar cookers covered a fair portion of Camp Creek Campground. Besides the eight contestants, we had eleven other solar ovens smiling at the sun. Jim Shoemaker from Redding brought his cardboard and foil Sun Star type cooker. The Solar Man himself, Phil Wilcox, brought two solar ovens. One small cooker could easily fit into a back pack; the other design was part of the U.S Air Force survival pack in the +50s! Yes, solar cooking has been around for awhile. We also had four Sun Ovens, a Sun Chef, and three other homemade models cooking ribs, peach cobbler and other tasty goodies. By ten o'clock, we placed a cup of pre-soaked pinto beans and a cup of rice in each of the contesting cookers. One result of having this number of solar cooks you get an incredible variety of cookers! Each cooker reflected the designer+s carefully spent time, creativity and imagination; no two were alike. Walking around the cookers, you could hear how the cookers sparked the imagination of all those who came. We looked, appreciated, and used other+s creations as a stepping stone for our own solar cooker dreams. The Contestants Unfortunately, we don't have the space to fully cover the designs for every cooker. What will have to suffice is a brief description, photographs and the designer+s name and address. So take a close look at the photos and be inspired by the ingenuity of the designers! Keep in mind next year's contest. As with last year+s contest, the first place cooker design is described in full. continued.... --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (186) Sun 24 Jul 94 18:02 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Sol Cooker 2 of 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32e4dc The parabolic cookers added a new dimension to the contest they really cook! Two cookers used parabolic dishes to reflect and focus the sun's energy onto a cooking pot. Jack Thompson from San Diego, California sent a design that used a cardboard- ribbed foil-covered parabolic dish. A galvanized pipe frame held the dish and cooking pot. Kathleen and Bob-O built this cooker from Jack+s plans. The other parabolic design arrived with David Baty and Cody Brewer, who hail from Berkeley, California. Their cooker consists of a four foot in diameter sand & cement dish that rests in an old car tire. They used aluminum flashing for the reflective interior. David and Cody had already impressed us the day before by making espresso in their parabolic cooker. On contest day, their rice and beans kept boiling over and needed additional water a few times. Both parabolic cookers cooked the rice and beans to perfection in less than two hours. This left plenty of sun time for a solar cooker first for all of us at the contest solar popped popcorn! Lu Yoder from Albuquerque, New Mexico sent a simple design that used two 2 foot by 3 foot cylindrical concentrators. His plans called for a flexible substrate such as hard plastic, thin plywood or masonite covered with a reflective material, such as polished aluminum cans. The panels were curved to concentrate the sun+s energy on a cooking pot that sat on an insulated box on the ground. We made the cooker with masonite and aluminum litho sheets from our local paper. Dan Freeman sent his cooker from his home in Peoria, Arizona. Dan+s creative portable design used aluminized bubble pack (like Reflectix) as both reflector and insulator that was velcroed to a folding aluminum frame. His cooking box sported a unique curved parabolic-section shape. We were thrilled to receive an international entry. Rodrigo Carpio from Cuenca, Ecuador sent beautifully detailed designs in Spanish for his rugged, but surprisingly lightweight box type cooker. Bill Battagin and I built the cardboard and plywood cooker from Rodrigo+s design. (The crew sat down with a Spanish-English dictionary one night, and also got help from Juan Livingstone to translate the instructions) . The wide flat interior of this box cooker is especially suited for climates near the equator. From Las Vegas, Nevada came a cooker designed by Bohuslav Brudik. This clever design used a store bought rectangular bamboo basket, insulated with cotton batting and rags which was covered with cardboard painted black. Bohuslav used plexigass for a glazing and fashioned reflectors from flattened honey cans supported by dowels. Simple, and worked great! Peter Pearl drove from Bisbee, Arizona to share his solar cooker design and other great ideas. His compact solar cooker had a black beveled steel interior in a small wooden box with a single polished reflector. And finally, Jay Campbell, who won first place in last year+s contest, sent another original cooker from Albuquerque, New Mexico. He designed the cooker using a washtub, insulated with straw, with a box interior. Jay made foldable reflectors of foil- covered masonite. The cheery green cover added to the festive atmosphere at the contest. continued.... --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (187) Sun 24 Jul 94 18:02 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Sol Cooker 3 of 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32e500 The envelope please... Now the toughest job of all. Six judges walked around the cookers to judge the performance, buildability, ruggedness and beauty of design of each entry (see sidebar for details). Anita XXXXX, Sherrie Reiman, Selina XXXXX, Karen Perez, Kathleen Jarschke-Schultze, and Dan Lepinski spent a few hours studying the cookers, sampling their fares, and marking numbers on their detailed sheets. Most cookers had no problem with the rice, but the beans presented a challenge. We decided the point system would allow impartial judging. (After sampling the espresso, Karen was a bit biased towards the cement parabolic cooker. As it is, that cooker now resides at HP Central. If you want your own too, see directions on page 34 this issue.) When the judging was finished and the numbers tallied, we had our winners. Cookers were ranked by total number of points from all judges. Jay Campbell won a Solarex MSX-60 photovoltaic panel for first place with his washtub design. Peter Pearl will be installing a PowerStar 200 watt inverter for winning second place. David Baty and Cody Brewer shared the solar/dynamo radio for winning third place with their cement parabolic cooker. Finally, time to eat rice, beans, salsa, guacamole, ribs, peach cobbler.... And now as promised, details of the winning design by Jay Campbell This year, I chose to work with a developing country right in my own back yard. I designed and built a solar oven based on the needs, foods and materials common to the Navajo Nation. This stunning land spreads across 24,000 square miles of New Mexico, Arizona and Utah, and is home to more than 175,000 people. Of the 500+ tribes in the United States, the Navajo tribe is the largest, and their landholdings the most extensive. They were chosen for this project not for their size, however, but for their need. Despite the beauty of the land, life on the reservation is hard. Much of the tribe has never been +on the grid+, so the concept of going off it is meaningless. Wood and propane supply the primary sources of household energy. The climate and terrain of the Navajos are typical of many tribes in the area. The air is dry, vegetation is sparse and the sun shines brightly. Wood is not available in many areas, so it is hauled in from the distant mountains. The tribal government has been promoting solar electricity for some time now, funding small systems at remote sites, and encouraging members to utilize this abundant resource. They will play a key role in the promotion of this oven. This project would have been impossible without many consultations with JoAnn Willie, a lifelong resident of the of the rural Navajo land. She is also a graduate student in Mechanical Engineering at the University of New Mexico. Her combination of skills was invaluable in the development, testing and promotion of this oven. The information she gave on materials, foods, cookware and eating habits was all blended into this design, and it's ultimate success is hers to enjoy. The Oven The oven is built around several common items in rural Navajo life. The outer box consists of a 2 foot diameter galvanized washtub, commonly used for washing kids, clothes and produce. When they no longer hold water, they are used to feed animals, store wood, and haul whatever needs hauling. These are truly an ubiquitous item in daily living. They are common, abundant, durable and used ones can be found for next to nothing. continued.... --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (188) Sun 24 Jul 94 18:03 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Sol Cooker 4 of 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32e520 The insulation used is straw. The dry land doesn't provide sufficient grass for grazing, so hay, alfalfa and straw are widely used for fodder. This oven requires about 1/10 of a bale of straw, costing about a quarter. The inner box is sized around the most common types of cookware + enameled steel stew pots. The volume is large enough to feed a family of 6. All other materials are made from commonly available items, down to using leather for hinges and weatherstripping. A piece of garden hose, split lengthwise, is used to seal the inner and outer boxes together. The collapsible reflectors reduce storage space requirements when not in use. The exposed surfaces are either painted or galvanized, helping to assure a long life. For outdoor storage, however, a cover would be recommended. A door on top swings open for access to the hot section. The reflectors are mounted securely to the door, and have withstood winds of up to 30 mph. The leatherwork is oiled, to protect it from the elements. The colors of this oven represent something the Navajos are world famous for + their turquoise and silver jewelry. A set of cardboard risers is included to size the cooking space for the cookware. The appropriate riser is placed into the oven, and then covered with a black cardboard square. This way, the food can be raised to the hottest part of the oven, regardless of the cookware. The highest temperature achieved was 330iF (165iC). The time required to boil 1 liter of 20iC water was 56 minutes at this elevation (about 6000 feet). The total cost as built is $10.83, assuming a used washtub. A new one would add about $10 to that price. About 6 hours was spent on actual construction; this could be reduced significantly for any future copies. CONSTRUCTION Assemble per sketches; subassemblies first, then final assembly Cover the inner box with foil, both inside and outside The glass slides into the door, but is not permanently mounted. It can be replaced easily if it breaks. Add a leather strip around the sealing surface, under the door. Use This oven works similar to most multiple reflector ovens. Food is prepared and placed into the oven, using the appropriate riser to keep the food at the top of the oven. Dark enameled steel cookware (the standard in the area) works extremely well in this oven, but a variety of glass and aluminum has also been used. The oven can be left unattended for long periods, but stays hottest if it is turned every hour or so. The round base and handles makes turning it easy. Like most solar ovens, cooking times are about double those for a conventional oven. Foods which require a long, slow simmer are especially well suited to solar cooking. Traditional Navajo meals include green chile stew, mutton stew, roast meats, breads and corn mush. A gallon of stew will cook up nicely in an afternoon, as will a few of quarts of beans. Cornbread has been baked in this model in about 40 minutes. When the food is ready, the reflectors are folded together and fastened to the door. The door swings open and the food can be removed. If desired, the pot can be covered with a couple of towels, and left inside the oven. This way it will retain its heat for quite some time, and even keep on cooking. continued.... --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (189) Sun 24 Jul 94 18:03 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Sol Cooker 5 of 5 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e32e540 ALTERNATIVES The main alternative design tested was with galvanized sheet metal reflectors. The dimensions and overall performance were essentially the same as the model submitted. The increased durability comes at a higher financial cost, and it didn't seem worth it. The masonite reflectors are good enough, and last long enough that occasional replacement would still be cheaper. Better insulation could be used, but only if it were free or very cheap. The multiple radiant barriers (foil and sheet metal) provide much of the thermal protection, and the straw is only a defense against conduction. Conclusions This oven will cook many of the staple foods used in the Navajo Nation. It can be built easily by individuals, or produced in quantities by a small shop, using only basic hand tools.The investment in materials will repay itself in about a month, and continue paying dividends for years to come. The climate in the region will allow its use for over 200 days per year, which can make this a primary, rather than secondary, means of cooking. Although specifically designed around the materials and foods of the Navajo, it is suitable for use over a wide region. Promotional efforts have begun in New Mexico, and show a strong amount of interest.+ The more cooks that move their kitchen into the sun, the better the broth will be! More people entered the contest this year. We saw a wider variety of cookers reflecting the creativity, ingenuity, and love of solar-cooked food from a greater number of people. The solar spark catches and spreads to even more people, so put on your thinking caps and start dreaming of your ideal cooker. If you don+t know how to use some tools, find someone who does (and make him cookies for a job well done). Build a cooker. Cook your meals without fuel, and keep your kitchen cool in the summer. Enjoy some solar-cooked food (and win a PV module next year). Access Solar Cooker Contestants Jay Campbell, PE, Applied Engineering, 218 Dartmouth SE, Albuquerque, NM 87106 N 505-256-1261 N Fax 505-260-1339 Bohuslav Brudik, 4387 Salton Ave #2A, Las Vegas, NV 89109 N 702-792-6662 Dan Freeman, 10735 W. Laurie Ln, Peoria, AZ 85345 N 602-876-8036 Peter Pearl, POB 867, Bisbee, AZ 85603 David R. Baty and Cody Brewer, 2929 M. L. King Jr. Way, Berkeley, CA 94703 N 510- 848-5951 Lu Yoder, Liberation Technology, 315 Harvard SE, Albuquerque, NM 87106 N Rodrigo Carpio C, POB 607, Cuenca, Ecuador N 881501 Author/Eater: Therese Peffer, c/o Home Power, POB 520, Ashland, OR 97520 N 916- 475-3179 Eventually the sun will be harnessed by sincere humans, and the energy created will give our old planet a new lease on life. Let us hope that the sun, even though captured, will be free to the peoples of the world. In a world of accelerated progress we are rapidly running out of energy, yet this world not only is plentifully supplied with energy sources, we waste what we now have and pass up untapped amounts. We, as mental giants, are stupidly ignoring sources of unlimited, free energy. G. don Graham Article Courtesy of and Copyright by Home Power Magazine PO Box 520, Ashland OR 97520, Pub 6x/yr, $15 US, $20 Int. Editorial 916.475.3179, Subs & Back Issues 916.475.0830 Note: This article is from an early issue; things change. Online Archives: SOL-BBS 707.545.0746 & HP-BBS 707.822.8640 Also on the SOLAR-1 CDROM available from Home Power Magazine --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (190) Thu 7 Jul 94 0:47 By: Gale Barrows To: Bill Basford Re: Got Any Idea???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e1b88c4 BB>GB>LC>How come it tis that one renewable source of energy, BB>GB>LC>alcohol, never seems BB>GB>LC>to get any bandwidth in here? BB>GB>LC>From what I have read it is easily used in IC engines. BB>GB>LC>It seems to be fairly benign environmentally. BB>GB>LC>It can be made from virtually any crop material. BB>GB>LC>It's not to hard to produce. BB>GB>LC>Seems almost a natural for alternative energy folk, but I have seen BB>GB>LC>virtually no discussion of the material. BB>Lewis, BB> According to some reports I have seen, growing crops specifically to BB> produce alcohol is impractical because it takes more energy for all BB> the plowing, planting, harvesting, transportation, processing, etc., BB> than you can get from the alcohol. Therefore, alcohol fuels are BB> practical only when you can make them from some byproduct that BB> otherwise goes to waste. One nice thing about alcohol production from grians is that the leftovers make excellent livestock feed with little loss of nutrients. The by products also make good human food as well. The area I live in is not very good for crop production due to short seasons but potatoes do well. I have long thought a potato coop would be a good bussiness. Much land is now just pasture/hay land in small acreages that prohibit individuals from buying and maintaining the equipment to farm it. the hay is even usualy given to anybody with the equipment ot harvest it. my idea is for the owners of patches from 5 acres to 500 to pool the land into a coop. With the large acreage the coop could farm the ground for potatoes (yes VP Dan, I was taught to spell it that was also !!!) to distill into alcohol (maybe even a litle Vodka for consu,ption by members). The potatoe tops would and do make good livestock forage and the remnant mash also is a fine livestock feed. In this way, idle ground could be put back into production and probably produce more feed than it does now as well as fuel. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (191) Thu 7 Jul 94 1:07 By: Gale Barrows To: Bill Basford Re: Lubricants For Fuel Effi ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e1b8d76 BB>Speaking of lubricants for fuel efficiency, has anyone on this BB>conference had any experience with those Teflon oil additives that BB>promise to reduce engine friction, prolong engine life and improve fuel BB>mileage? Two of my acquaintances use it in their cars and claim good BB>results. One is an insurance agent who drives plenty of miles and BB>he claims that it increased fuel mileage in his Buick LeSabre by 3 MPG, BB>from 27 up to 30 MPG, or roughly 10 percent! I use it regularly in my vehicles. I have not seen a large mileage increase but do attribute engine survival to the stuff in a couple cases. One was with my M715 1 1/4 ton truck. On this engine, there is an external rubber oil line that carries all oil to the overhead cam head. I broke the line and lost all the oil before I was able to get off thje side of the road. I had to add oil so I could get pressure and oil flow to find out where the leak was !!! I was told by a Jeep (the manufacturer) that that engine was almost always ruined by such a leak which was not that uncommon and was one of the reasons the engine was discontinued. I had recently treated the engine with Slick50, maybe 100 miles prior. Replaced the line (and it is a mother bear to get to !!!) Started her up and 4,000 miles later can see no damage !!! Remember, the carrier oil is generaly 30 weight (it is usualy posted on the jug) so it is a heavier weight than your 5 or 10/30 !!! And it is ok to add this oil to other weight oils. The same outfits also often make greases for standard transmissions and differential. Those *do* make a big difference, especialy on trucks. Much less drag in the winter and the differentials and transmissions run consederavbly cooler in the summer. The local log haulers awear by QMI brand in the gear boxes and differentials. Those trucks get a lot of abuse and must run in all weather from 30 below to 115 above. They say their mileage is up and maintainance cost way down from the use of the stuff as gear lube. They run it in their engines also wioth equal results. * SLMR 2.1a * Go Armed, Go Safe --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (192) Mon 25 Jul 94 10:58 By: Ken Finney To: Earl Needham Re: Power Consumtion of pelti ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 2394 @MSGID: 1:343/70 53d23866 @REPLY: 1:318/1 f4265d10 > On 07-13-94 KEN FINNEY wrote to ALL... > > KF> Has anyone out there measured the current at 12 V required to run one > KF> of those coolers that use Peltier junctions to stay cold? I > KF> understand > KF> they aren't very efficient and take quite a lot of current, but how > KF> much is "a lot"? > > Ken, I don't know how much a lot is, but when I used > mine to heat > instead of cool (reversible plug), the cigar plug melted! > Must be a BUNCH! > > 73 > Earl > > --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 > * Origin: The Cellar Door RBBS * <505> 784-3187 (1:318/1) I did find an ad that "claimed" 2.5 A average with a 4 A peak. Sounds pretty low considering your experience. --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: (1:343/70) @PATH: 343/70 300 1 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (193) Mon 25 Jul 94 3:18 By: Larry Gowdy To: Larry D. Yuengel Re: Re: 12volts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Larry D. Yuengel to Tony Weeks <=- > In my youth, I was inspired by an antique windmill and had thoughts of > a wind powered home using automotive electrical system parts. If the > cooking and heating was done with natural gas most everything else could > be run on 12 volts. The parts would be cheap and 3 or 4 car batteries > could hold enough power for when the wind is low. Do you know of anyone > that has tried this? LDY> I have heard of using auto lights for indoor lighting. We lived a few years using three marine batteries, one 220v gasoline generator, one home made generator with a Ford alternator powered by a small gasoline motor, and a wood heater. We started out with some old car batteries, but they didn't work worth a darn. Indoors we used 12vdc 40 watt bulbs for lighting. Just about everything was 12vdc except an electric oven. During the summer, we ran the 220v generator for about an hour a day, and while it was on, we'd cook on the stove, run the air conditioner, turn a 120vac stereo up 'real high', and charge the batteries. This would charge the batteries enough to power the TV, several fans, lights, and well pumps for a couple days. In the winter, since we cooked on the wood burner, we usually just ran the little homemade generator for about an hour a day. When the women folk spent some time in the city visiting relatives, I wouldn't have to run the generator for several days. A single male could probably do just fine with 3 marine batteries and 1 or 2 solar panels. Of course, if a person wants to generate enough electricity to run all the gadgets like they do in city homes, its going to require one very large wind generator or an acre of solar panels. Cost wise, no such 'free energy' system would ever pay for itself over the cost of city electricity. Our system was crude, but it was cheap, and it worked. When storms knocked down power lines in the area, we still had heat and lighting, where nobody else did. The 220v generators are not known for dependability. Our's lasted about 6 months each, and I wouldn't recommend doing that again. The little homemade job with a Techumse (s?) engine was still running great after 5 years when we had to move to town. I've thought a lot about wind generators (we have an endless supply of 15-35mph wind here), but being the lazy cuss I am, I'm going with solar panels or maybe a water powered generator this time. ... I'm from Texas... what country are you from? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FMail/386 0.98a * Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (1:352/111) @PATH: 352/111 3 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (194) Tue 26 Jul 94 3:03 By: Larry Gowdy To: Jamie Barlow Re: Re: Storing Energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JB> Does anyone out there know of a good mechanical way of storing JB> energy.Before the invention of the battery was there other ways to JB> store energy efficinetly If you have a hill or such on your land, you can store water in a tank, which can later be used to drive a generator by gravity feed. Not the greatest storage, but it has other benefits too like not needing a pump to supply water to the house, and the ability to water the garden all at the same time. Guess a lot of it would depend on what source of energy you're using now, that would help define what would probably be the best way to store it. As far as what type of energy was used before batteries came along, I'm guessing the only things people had were livestock (horses for transportation and plowing) and hired help to do all the work. Although most city folks had electricity at the turn of the century, people in the country still lived fairly primitively up until just 50 years ago. Oil and gas was so plentiful, nobody cared much about storing or conserving energy. ... I'm from Texas... what country are you from? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FMail/386 0.98a * Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (1:352/111) @PATH: 352/111 3 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (195) Sat 23 Jul 94 0:43 By: John Thompson To: Jody Gorran Re: Re: Hey Guys! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/120 86EB04F4 -=> Quoting Jody Gorran to All <=- JG> From: jgorran@gate.net (Jody Gorran) JG> Date: 11 Jul 94 00:09:03 GMT JG> Greetings: JG> If anyone out there in cyberspace is interested in a true application JG> of renewable energy technology, ie. solar swimming pool heating, I'd JG> be happy to make arrangements to send you a free booklet on this JG> subject. Simply e-mail me your name and postal mail address and I'll JG> take care of the rest. I can't wait to hear about that roto tiller, JG> Larry. Regards, JG> Jody Gorran JG> jgorran@gate.net What type of info? Homebrew systems, or off the shelf equipment? The reason I ask is because I install and service solar pool heaters and solar hot water heaters. BTW: What state are you in? John T. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- WM v3.11/93-0192 * Origin: Bashful Pervert BBS (305) 472-7715 28800 V.32bis (1:369/120) @PATH: 369/120 83 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (196) Sat 23 Jul 94 0:50 By: John Thompson To: Ian Woofenden Re: swimming pool heater ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/120 86EB04F5 -=> Quoting Ian Woofenden to Jody Gorran <=- IW> On (11 Jul 94) Jody Gorran wrote to All... JG> If anyone out there in cyberspace is interested in a true JG> application of renewable energy technology, ie. solar JG> swimming pool heating, I'd be happy to make arrangements to JG> send you a free booklet on this subject. IW> Can I turn it on backwards to freeze my pond ? If you run the pump at night, it will cool it quite a bit, down here in South Florida some people have to do just that in the summer to keep the pool UNDER 100. IW> If anyone knows anything about making ice, I'm interested. When pigs IW> can fly, I'm going to have an ice rink. But I don't have grid power, IW> so I need some alternative power source. Any ideas? Sorry...... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- WM v3.11/93-0192 * Origin: Bashful Pervert BBS (305) 472-7715 28800 V.32bis (1:369/120) @PATH: 369/120 83 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (197) Mon 25 Jul 94 22:03 By: Gary Pagac To: Larry D. Yuengel Re: 12volts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:346/35.0 2e346ed6 On 07-17-94 Larry D. Yuengel wrote to Tony Weeks... LD> LD> I have heard of using auto lights for indoor lighting. Those draw a LOT of juice...like 7 to 13 amps each. There are readily available 12 volt screw-in incandescent bulbs at all trailer supply places. These bulbs look exactly like a standard indoor incandescent. Possibly better yet, look into florescent lighting. It is widely available for home, 120 volt use and it is super efficient. I've converted much of my house. There is also no problem with colors being correct either -- look for the color corrected ones and they'll produce very livable coloring. ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * SpokAne, The Apple Maggot Quarantine Area! --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Moonflower (1:346/35) @PATH: 346/35 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (198) Thu 21 Jul 94 18:17 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00039555 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 21 Jul 94 18:17:55 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Stan Bischof wrote: > Let's say that solar cells are 100% efficient yet cost $1000 per watt > installed. I don't know why I'd ever want to say that Stan, Current PV's are around 13% efficient and the panel cost is around $6 per watt of capacity and concieveably less. New 50 watt panels run about $300 and I can buy good used panels for around $3 per watt (I'm going to). > The astute observer may notice that I'll be sending something like > 30 cents per year so in about 3000 years you might be able to pay > back your initial investment. (Though of course the cells will die in > a decade or so anyhow- but that's another story.) (And of course > a .003 % return on your kilobuck investment might not be considered > exactly stellar- but that's yet another story.) Stan, the cells aren't going to die in 10 years or even 20. They degrade somewhat but most of that happens in the first 10 years. I know of a well instrumented system containing a 20 year old panel that still puts out 88% of it's rated output and hasn't lost any efficency in the last ten years. The knowledgeable folks I know estimate a lifespan of nearly a century with perhaps %25 degradation at 50 years. There are many panels sold now with a 15 year guarantee that they will still put out 90% of rated output. > Basically you have fallen into a very common trap for solar enthusiasts-- > the 'fuel' may be free, but that becomes almost irrelevant to the cost > of producing electricity. I believe you don't understand why folks use solar panels Stan. This is a common misconception. I don't know of few people who have an available grid connection who have gone solar. Most folks using PV's are off the grid. Here in CA PG&E (the utility) gets $30,000 per mile to run power lines (best case situation) for the priviledge of paying them for the power you use. This isn't even an option in many parts of the planet where it's PV's, Wind, Hydro, fossil fuels or nothing. At *current* rates it will take about 16 years to pay off the tracked 400watt PV array (about 3.2kwh/day average) we're putting together. Of course I don't expect the current per kwh rate to remain the same so they payback should be shorter. There's other infrastructure involved in this system (batteries, controller, inverter) but it's going to be far cheaper than paying PG&E $25,000 for the priviledge of paying a monthly bill. Course the sun doesn't shine every day but often when it doesn't the wind blows which explains why we're buying a windplant as well. Some folks like to make their own power as a hobby, others because they want a degree of self sufficency. Me? I just want out of the power loop that supports coal, fossil fired and nuclear generation. > Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with solar- just that > it's easy to ignore economics when presented with seemingly great deals! Speaking of which it's likely the cost of PV's will fall by about half in the next 3-4 years and continue to fall.... DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (199) Thu 21 Jul 94 17:33 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003957a @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics @Message-Id: Date: 21 Jul 94 17:33:15 GMT In article <30k5ai$1gt@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, Dean Weiten wrote: [...] >Of course, where I come from (Manitoba, Canada), we are lucky enough to be >able to generate electricity from hydraulic sources - but we have also found >this not to be quite non-polluting, as several northern native groups can >attest. In my ideal world, all power sources would be non-polluting, >and IMHO, they would likely be producing electricity. A lot of people think hydro is a renewable power source. It's not. All dams are destined to silt up eventually, and become useless for power generation and flood control. There are no economically feasible ways to clear out the silt. The time frame for silting varies from dam to dam, of course, but some very important dams are figured to be silted up within a century or so. Once this happens at Boulder Dam, for instance, there will be downstream catastrophe as the devestating lower Colorado River floods of yesteryear return. And a major source of power will be lost. -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (200) Tue 19 Jul 94 13:44 By: Dennis Keim To: Jim Dunmyer Re: Induction machines ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:285/203.0 86E608AE @PID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.00h 92-0084 Jim Dunmyer told Earl Needham regarding YOUR CARBURETOR : JD> It plain will not function at all without power being applied, at JD> least to start with; there's some discussion as to whether it might JD> continue to generate electricity once started. You can get self-excitation of induction machines if you have enough capacitance on the system. Evidently there may be enough residual flux left on the rotor to get the system rolling under some instances. Seems like the wind power guys at DOE had put out some publications regarding this phenomena. Obviously this can be the good news and the bad news depending on what you are trying to do. --- * WinQwk 2.0 a#752 * They earned it the old fashioned way, stock options. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.00h * Origin: Flite-Line BBS Lincoln Nebraska (402) 421-2434 (1:285/203.0) @PATH: 285/203 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (201) Tue 26 Jul 94 23:06 By: Elvis Hargrove To: James Neighbors Re: ELECTRIC BICYCLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 7d801813 -> appliances in their house... My question.. Is this even possible, and is -> it a feasible idea? Yes, No. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 1 5255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (202) Fri 22 Jul 94 9:28 By: Larry D. Yuengel To: Kenneth T. Cornelius Re: Hey Guys! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 000068D7 @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 0002FEA0 @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 9 Re: Hey Guys! > This is supposed to be about renewable enery, right? What has gummed up > carburetors, ammeter shunts, and electric vehicles of all types got to do > with that? Take it somewhere else, OK? I don't know about that, the title listed here is "Alternative Energy/Home Power". I don't see a problem. (not that i am host). Popeye Metropolis BBS VBBS 6.14 VNet @1618001 East St. Louis, Illinois USA CD-ROM Multi-Line All 14.400! Games Chat And Much More! 618-398-8186 --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 9 * Origin: Dark Star VI FIDOnet <-> VirtualNET Gateway (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (203) Mon 25 Jul 94 8:51 By: Ian Woofenden To: Phillip Hill Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 b175164e @REPLY: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 00004A79 On (12 Jul 94) Phillip Hill wrote to Ian Woofenden... PH> What I did before was to construct a pit in the ground and PH> place the generator in it. This is not just a pit but a PH> walkin cellar type thing. works really well, can hear it only PH> if you know it's there. Sounds ideal. Only trouble here is that it would also require a sump pump, since our water table is pretty high in the winter. And what would happen if the battery power went out on the pump - just start up the gen to charge ... But thanks for the idea. Seems perfect for other applications, and I could consider building a mound around my gen house if it weren't positioned so close to other buildings. Ian ... I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (204) Mon 25 Jul 94 8:55 By: Ian Woofenden To: Larry D. Yuengel Re: 12volts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 6b2f8a74 @REPLY: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 0000617C On (17 Jul 94) Larry D. Yuengel wrote to Tony Weeks... LD> > most everything else could be run on 12 volts. The parts LD> > would be cheap and 3 or 4 car batteries could hold enough LD> > power for when the wind is low. Do you know of anyone that LD> > has tried this? LD> I have heard of using auto lights for indoor lighting. But they are a poor choice, compared to the DC compact fluorescents that are out there. The latter gives probably ten times as much light (OK, I'm not being exact...) for the same power consumption. And as others have said, car batteries are not made for the cycling that happens in HP situations. I'd really suggest that anyone interested in this sort of system order as many of the AE catalogs advertised in HP as you can. There is a lot being done, and you could save re-inventing too many wheels. Many of the catalogs serve as system planning guides too and have much educational material. Ian ... Never assume malice when stupidity may be the answer. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (205) Mon 25 Jul 94 9:00 By: Ian Woofenden To: Tony Weeks Re: Wind power/batteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 c9972c66 @REPLY: 1:105/40.357 28eea85b On (23 Jul 94) Tony Weeks wrote to Don Kulha... TW> Forgive me my lack of attention to the subject. I was more TW> interested in finding if using cheap alternators would work. TW> I know the difference between a car batter and a deep-cycle TW> battery. I used to have half interest in a auto battery shop TW> and we sold deep-cycle batteries but I've always thought of TW> them as another flavor of car batteries. Forgive me my non-expertness, but I think that the "deep-cycle" batteries that you sold *were* just another flavor of car battery, and not true deep cycle batteries, such as the Trojan L-16 that Don was talking about. Better to buy from either an AE dealer, or a battery distributor who knows stationary power systems. Not to knock your experience *too* much, but auto battery people know what it takes to make a good auto battery, but not necessarily a good AE system battery. Ian ... noted Canadian comedian Don Cherry..... --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (206) Tue 26 Jul 94 16:36 By: Ian Woofenden To: Tony Cygan Re: Human Powered Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 8aadb850 @REPLY: 1:125/7.0 2e2d52ea On (20 Jul 94) Tony Cygan wrote to Ian Woofenden... TC> I went into the Human Powered Fidonet echo can came up with TC> the following information -- Hope it helps... Thanks. Good to know that conference is there. Makes me think that at some point it would be nice to have a listing of echoes that are even tangentially connected to our topic here. I'm not super interested in recumbant bikes, but have at times wished that there were something that had the advantages of a car (room for passengers, stuff, and weatherproof) but powered by the occupants. If anyone knows of such a thing, I'm interested in hearing about it. Ian ... That's not line noise--my modem's speaking in tongues! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 336 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (207) Wed 27 Jul 94 17:03 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Lewis Cosper Re: YOUR CARBURETOR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> I'm familiar with how you sync conventional alternators to an >> existing AC source. > > How does one do that? Basically, they have light bulbs connected between the existing line and the alternator. If the alternator is stopped, the bulbs will light up; as the alternator comes up to speed, the bulbs start flickering, slower and slower. When you get them to just go out, you throw the switch to parallel the alternator and the line, then adjust the governor on the engine to pick up the load. The bulbs must be rated at twice the voltage of the power system because if the alternator and line are 180 degrees out of phase, the voltage will be twice "normal". Of course, if you have a cogenerator system like we have at work, the computer just starts the "other" engine and puts it online for you. <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, 14+ gigs, 150,000 files 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (208) Fri 22 Jul 94 4:23 By: Doug Bashford To: all Re: WINDPOWER AND DISARMAMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:102/129.0 2e33c4eb * msg originally in Ecology Well, Robert Goos said to All on 17 Jul 94 about: WINDPOWER AND DISARMAMENT.... RG> My neighbor is attempting to bring together the RG> environmental movement and the nuclear disarmament movement into RG> a visionary project for North Dakota. RG> North Dakota has hundreds of remote missile sites. Most of RG> these sites are eventually doomed to abandonment. The normal RG> reaction of the rural people to this thought is to use political RG> power (through congressmen and senators) to keep the military RG> sites open whether they are militarily needed or not. RG> These sites have very good infrastructure--power, concrete, RG> roads, security systems, etc. My neighbor has received some RG> grants to study the use of these remote missile sites eventually RG> for "hubs" for a vast windpower network he is designing. Since RG> North Dakota has some of the most constant and high prevailing RG> winds in the nation, his idea is makes great sense, even to a RG> sceptic like me. RG> My neighbor just bought a new 486 computer and wants me to RG> help him get onto the "Information Superhighway." I would like RG> to help him, but I have no idea where to find newsgroups, ftp's, RG> etc., etc. regarding windpower, disarmament, etc. Could the RG> readers of this Fido echo help me? If you know how to tap into RG> the Internet (or other on-line services) regarding these RG> subjects, please drop me a note at: RG> robert.goos@flatland.com RG> Thanks a lot!!! RG> ... "Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore--It's too crowded" Yogi RG> Bera ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 RG> -!- FLAME v1.1 RG> ! Origin: Outdoor Sportsman's bbs Fargo ND, (701)-239-6048 (1:288/6) ... Our Earth can support 100 million in lusty luxury forever!! --- Blue Wave/Max v2.10 [NR] * Origin: ONE WORLD Los Angeles 310-372-0987 (1:102/129) @PATH: 102/129 138 2 209/209 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (209) Thu 21 Jul 94 13:45 By: Lanny Schlosberg To: All Re: Re: Human Powered Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 00039dc5 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: lschlos@pica.army.mil (Lanny Schlosberg) @Subject: Re: Human Powered Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 21 Jul 94 13:45:07 GMT @Sender: usenet@pica.army.mil (USENET Special Account ) In article , Ian.Woofenden@p3.f525.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ian Woofenden) wrote: > On (08 Jul 94) Leif Alexi Steinhour wrote to All... > > LA> Does anyone know of a place that sells human powered > LA> vehicles? I'm NOT talking about bicycles, of course, but > LA> rather the modified recumbants & tricycles that are covered > LA> with plastic/fiberglass shells. I know that MIT used to have > LA> a contest every year to race them... 60mph+ from what I've > LA> heard... > > LA> Anyone? > > LA> mail replies to: leif@owlnet.rice.edu, don't post! > > Post here too, please. I did a little research on this back in the > mid 70's, but didn't come up with much of anything. But I am still > interested to know whether any such animal is commercially > available. > > > > Ian > > > > ... The wrong way always seems the more reasonable. I have seen ads for both 3 and 4 wheel pedal powered "vehicles" in both Popular Science and Bicycling Magazines. As far as a low drag shell, don't expect much in an affordable vehicle. Weight vs cost is a problem especially in hilly areas, and it can get very stuffy inside a shell except in cold weather. Lanny --- * Origin: Usenet:Picatinny Arsenal, New Jersey USA (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (210) Fri 22 Jul 94 3:00 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: Egt? Get? Teg? Gte? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003a031 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) @Subject: Re: Egt? Get? Teg? Gte? @Message-Id: Date: 22 Jul 94 03:00:58 GMT Marc Visconte (Marc.Visconte@f25.n275.z1.fidonet.org) wrote: : "Jim? Did you know that the pilot-pickle out of a gas water heater makes a : "great EGT sensor for leaning small engines? Where can I get a calibration curve for one of those? Any reason why it won't work on a large engine? And to keep this on topic, I am of course thinking about running an engine on wood. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (211) Fri 22 Jul 94 15:00 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003a8a4 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 22 Jul 94 15:00:18 GMT In article , Don Kulha wrote: > > >On Wed, 20 Jul 1994, Stan Bischof wrote: > >> Let's say that solar cells are 100% efficient yet cost $1000 per watt >> installed. > > I don't know why I'd ever want to say that Stan, Current PV's are >around 13% efficient and the panel cost is around $6 per watt of capacity >and concieveably less. New 50 watt panels run about $300 and I can buy >good used panels for around $3 per watt (I'm going to). OK. If a one-watt solar cell produces 8 watt-hours/day, then that would be 2.88 kilowatt-hours per year. That $6.00 for the panel is worth $0.48 per year as an investment at 8%. So based on panel cost alone, the cost per kwh will be $0.166/kwh. To that must be added the cost of the land, the cost of the infrastructure (power lines, etc), the initial installation (may be as high as the cost of the panels themselves) and the maintenance. So as a commercial enterprise, solar panels are a long way from being feasible. [...] >> Basically you have fallen into a very common trap for solar enthusiasts-- >> the 'fuel' may be free, but that becomes almost irrelevant to the cost >> of producing electricity. > > I believe you don't understand why folks use solar panels Stan. This >is a common misconception. I don't know of few people who have an >available grid connection who have gone solar. Most folks using PV's are >off the grid. Here in CA PG&E (the utility) gets $30,000 per mile to run >power lines (best case situation) for the priviledge of paying them for >the power you use. This isn't even an option in many parts of the planet >where it's PV's, Wind, Hydro, fossil fuels or nothing. Obviously, people who are in the boondocks are going to use whatever works for them. But those who could easily connect to the grid should at least be aware of the true costs of installing private alternative energy sources. And be aware that a considerable amount of personal free labor may be involved, labor that would not be free to those unable or unknowledgable enough to perform it. And for a private power system a single natural disaster could be a catastrophe. [...] -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (212) Fri 22 Jul 94 15:05 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: swimming pool heater ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003a8a8 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: swimming pool heater @Message-Id: Date: 22 Jul 94 15:05:22 GMT In article , Ian Woofenden wrote: [...] >If anyone knows anything about making ice, I'm interested. When pigs >can fly, I'm going to have an ice rink. But I don't have grid power, >so I need some alternative power source. Any ideas? There are ways of using fire (or heat) to run a refrigeration cycle. Ny grandmother had a Servel gas-powered fridge. It's called the absorption cycle, and is well-known to those who deal in regrigeration design. But it requires ammonia, and is not used very widely for safety reasons, among others. I once considered designing such an air conditioner for VW Beetles, since they had an excess of engine heat at the very time you most wanted air conditioning. No moving parts, either. -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (213) Fri 22 Jul 94 13:22 By: Jack Coats To: All Re: Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003a938 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: jocoats@amoco.com (Jack Coats) @Subject: Re: QUIET @Message-Id: <1994Jul22.082208.5316@amoco.com> Date: 22 Jul 94 13:22:08 GMT @Sender: news@amoco.com @Reply-To: jocoats@amoco.com In article , Doug.Hoffman@psybbs.durham.nc.us (Doug Hoffman) writes: >>From: hoffman@cs.unc.edu (Doug Hoffman) >>On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable generators that can >>run on propane? Do they exist, how long do they run on a tank of gas, do they >>cost more than gasoline, etc? I'd like one that runs on natural gas... Especially if it is fairly quiet... Are there any 'cheap' methods of conversion from gas to nat'l gas? --- #include(standard-disclaimer.h); E-mail: jocoats@amoco.com Fax: 713/366-7570 Voice: 713/366-7120 Personal: 73670.2476@compuserve.com -or- jcoats@hounix.org --- * Origin: Usenet:Amoco Corportation (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (214) Fri 22 Jul 94 14:02 By: Jack Coats To: All Re: Solar Air Conditioner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003a939 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: jocoats@amoco.com (Jack Coats) @Subject: Solar Air Conditioner @Message-Id: <1994Jul22.090219.7671@amoco.com> Date: 22 Jul 94 14:02:19 GMT @Sender: news@amoco.com @Reply-To: jocoats@amoco.com Does anyone have information, or where I could obtain information on solar powered refridgerated air conditioning. Living in the Gulf of Mexico coastal area, heating is a minimal problem, providing significant amounts of AC is our single biggest energy cost, with the possible exception of transportation. We tend to use AC 8 months of the year, and heat 3 months, with a few week transition time on either end where it is nice enough out not to desire/need enviromental control, or where the main problem is just dehumidification. ... Thanks ... Jack --- #include(standard-disclaimer.h); E-mail: jocoats@amoco.com Fax: 713/366-7570 Voice: 713/366-7120 Personal: 73670.2476@compuserve.com -or- jcoats@hounix.org --- * Origin: Usenet:Amoco Corportation (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (215) Wed 27 Jul 94 9:49 By: Dave Paxton To: Ian Woofenden Re: Propane generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 86ED8B61 IW> DH> On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable IW> DH> generators that can run on propane? Do they exist, how long IW> DH> do they run on a tank of gas, do they cost more than IW> DH> gasoline, etc? They do exist... but your probably better off buying a gas model and converting to propane IW>They tend to be a bit more expensive, and the fuel consumption is IW>going to be 10-20% more than gasoline, from what I've heard. Engines True, they use more gas. IW>that run on propane are supposed to last a lot longer, due to the IW>fuel being cleaner. Better on the air too. True also, to a point. There is a minor problem with "top end lubrication" because you don't have the lubricating effect of the pertro. derived fuel. Top end lubricators can be purchased but I find it better to "smoke down" an internal combustion engine that may not be run again for a while. I do this by useing a mechanics oiler full of Mystery Oil. It is a red colored oil that will burn in the combustion chamber but at the same time completely coats all surfaces includeing the exhaust valves. Just pop open the air cleaner and squirt it into the intake untill a large cloud of smoke starts billowing out the exhaust. When started again it will smoke untill it burns all the oil off. I also put some in the crank case too. About one quart to four is a good ratio. That tends to help lub the top end also. IW>No expert here, but questions are welcome, as I do run a IW>homebuilt DC gen on propane. I do not consider myself an expert either. I have about 20 years experience as an engine dealer for a major indust. eng. manufacturer and have seen my fair share of gas conversions but an expert, nahhh. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * You can check out but you can never leave! --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-771-0041 (1:369/3) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (216) Thu 28 Jul 94 1:08 By: James Nepil To: All Re: CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2604/407 2E373E67 I don't remember who was looking for the information on ELECTRIC CARS but here is the information you need! U.S ELECTRIcar 117 Morris St. Sebastopol, Calif. 95472 phone numer is (707) 829-4545 I hope this helps you out ....Will try to get you more information if needed :) Best to you All ! James * SPITFIRE v3.4 --- Alexi/Mail 2.00 (UNREG) * Origin: ~The Sudden Impulse~ Little Ferry,NJ * (201)641-8167 14.4 (1:2604/407) @PATH: 2604/407 0 3615/51 50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (217) Thu 28 Jul 94 7:07 By: Cloyce Osborn To: Gary Pagac Re: Re: 12volts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GP> On 07-17-94 Larry D. Yuengel wrote to Tony Weeks... LD> LD> I have heard of using auto lights for indoor lighting. GP> Those draw a LOT of juice...like 7 to 13 amps each. There are readily GP> available 12 volt screw-in incandescent bulbs at all trailer supply GP> places. These bulbs look exactly like a standard indoor incandescent. You're right, Gary, headlamps do draw a lot of current but I don't think you'd use them for indoor illumination. Larry was thinking of smaller bulbs more on the order of tail light bulbs or dome light bulbs. I'm familiar with the screw in 12 volt bulbs you mention and they work very well. One caution, though. Be careful not to inadvertently screw one of them into a 120 volt socket (they act just like a flash bulb!). GP> Possibly better yet, look into florescent lighting. It is widely GP> available for home, 120 volt use and it is super efficient. There are also 12 volt florescent units available and they are also very efficient. As I replace light fixtures in my travel trailer, I'm converting over to them. Regards. Cloyce. --- EZPoint V2.1 * Origin: Res Ipsa Loquitur (1:147/34.13) @PATH: 147/34 20 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (218) Thu 28 Jul 94 11:15 By: Fred Nowall To: Larry D. Yuengel Re: 12volts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:213/830@fidonet.org 7e0b7d87 LDY> I have heard of using auto lights for indoor lighting. LDY>Popeye this may be a dumb ??? but do you use 26.965 mhz i noticed that you used popeye just wandering? fred --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff097/x] * Origin: InterComm - 702-359-2666 - (1:213/830) @PATH: 213/830 213 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (219) Fri 22 Jul 94 19:15 By: Allen J. Filson To: All Re: Solar South Calculation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b13a @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: afilson@nyx.cs.du.edu (Allen J. Filson) @Subject: Solar South Calculation @Message-Id: <30p5t0$hiq@nyx.cs.du.edu> Date: 22 Jul 94 19:15:44 GMT Greetings, Presently I'm looking at parcels of land in which to build a passive solar house with a P.V. electric system. My question is: (1) How do you determine the location of "Solar South" as opposed to the "Magnetic South"? I know there is a difference between the two but is it great enough to worry about? Possibly someone could direct me to a source for this kind of information relative to the design of energy efficient housing and alternate energy systems. Thanks in advance for your help. Allen --- * Origin: Usenet:University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci. (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (220) Fri 22 Jul 94 22:24 By: Timothy Wilson x4040 To: All Re: Re: Human Powered Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b644 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: timothyw@stortek.com (Timothy Wilson x4040) @Subject: Re: Human Powered Vehicles @Message-Id: Date: 22 Jul 94 22:24:48 GMT @Sender: usenet@stortek.com There is a mailing list that is specifically for HPVs. To subscribe, mail a message to Majordomo@zippy.sonoma.edu. Do not put anything on the subject line. In the body of the message place this line: subscribe hpv I hope this helps Tim --- * Origin: Usenet:StorageTek (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (221) Fri 22 Jul 94 23:17 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: Mazda Water Engine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b6a7 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: Mazda Water Engine? @Message-Id: Date: 22 Jul 94 23:17:31 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 21 Jul 1994, Harry H Conover wrote: > I assume that you are joking about this. > > If you're actually serious, please call me the next time that > you're in Boston. I have a bridge that I can let you have real > cheap! Harry, Although it may sound incredible to you. Mazda actually has such a beast....However it is actually a Hydrogen powered car using hydrogen made from water. I've seen pics of it. Now, this isn't exactly water powered but related to such..... DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (222) Thu 28 Jul 94 12:23 By: Ron Perepolkin To: All Re: Wasted power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:353/460.0 2e37db64 Hi all, I have been lurking here for a month or so and had no intention of posting until I read a post forwarded by Don Kulha regarding solar electricity in Sri Lanka. It hit a nerve so to speak when I read the following passage. "The neighbors commented on how the usual dark surroundings had been lit by Piyasena's home. They also pondered with awe, how the sun had given them electricity. From that evening, Piyasena could operate a few fluorescent lamps" Why did this hit a nerve?.... Why are people so obsessed with lighting up the night sky and invading neighbors homes with their *light pollution*??? Every year poorly designed lighting systems waste more than $1 billion dollars of electricity by lighting nothing but airborne dust and water vapour. Think about it....why not shield the lighting as some cities have or use low pressure sodium lamps? You don't aim you car headlights into the sky to see the ground. You can see the glow of major cities from 150 kilometers. Ever been unable to sleep because of a street light or neighbors flood lamp? San Diego and Tucson residents became aware of the wasteful lighting due to an advertising campaign by city officials and environmental groups, they accepted the change in lighting to low pressure sodium and felt good about it. Why be blinded from the overall glow of the street lighting when it can just be shielded to illuminate the ground. Ask a pilot what they think of "well lit" airports. People have gone to court and won cases against light trespass into their yard. Most homeowners feel they must bathe their yard in light to keep burglars at bay.....*DEAD WRONG* Think about it.... Most burglars prefer a yard with one or two lights, the shadows created gives them a place to hide. If you hear a noise outside and investigate they know your eyes are not as dark adapted as theirs and that you will not see them lurking in the shadows. It's also great to see what they are stealing from you. If however the yard is dark the burglar and you are both on the same level as far as seeing goes and what burglar wants to use a flashlight to see what he is stealing if he is in your yard? The best bet other than a yappy dog is to keep a dark yard and install motion detector lighting. Why spent your $$$ on *security* lighting that burns all night and does not work??? Motion detector lighting is cheap and will scare the hell out of a burglar trying to raid your tool shed. You will save money on your power bill as well, and when you are outside yourself the light can still be left on as any other light can. How many of you have ever seen the river of light and billions of stars in the milky way? The sky at night is very beautiful and unfortunately many city dwellers will never see it. The milky way will actually cast shadows on earth if the location is dark enough. If you would like to get more information on conserving power by reducing wasted light both on your own power bill and your cities power bill (TAXES) write: The International Dark Sky Association at 3545 N. Stewart Avenue, Tucson, AZ 85716. 'nuff said. RP ___ X QMPro 1.02 41-5024 X Explain counter-clockwise to someone with a digital watch --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Big Edge (1:353/460) @PATH: 353/460 400 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (223) Wed 27 Jul 94 10:45 By: Tony Cygan To: Dave Skinner Re: Electric Cars legislatio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e3672ec > There has been lots of messages in sci.energy that imply that > the total emissions are *much* larger for ev's than regular old > ICE. LC> Want to enlighten as to how they come to that conclusion? Yea me too ! People are driving more...(longer commutes, travel, whatever) More people are driving...(increasing population) So even with the "so called" lower emmisions gasoline and better pollution controls on gas cars there will have to be an increase in total output of pollution by the gas cars on the same scale as the population increases their driving. It still comes down to -- 1) How the electricity is generated (coal, natural gas, SOLAR ?) 2) It is still easier to clean up (and maintain) 1 smokestack than a 100,000+ car exhausts. So even with the dirtiest generation source you come out ahead. This sounds like a push from the auto and gas industries to derail the Electric Vehicle from becomming a reality in the Eastern United States, by not allowing them to adopt the California ZEV requirements under the EPA guidelines. If there are bills being pushed in Congress, can you provide the Bill numbers, and the originators name, so we can contact our Congress persons about this issue ? Thanks. Tony ... Sac EV Assoc. meets 2nd Sat each month at 0930; 6201 S St. Sac, Ca. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (224) Wed 27 Jul 94 0:00 By: Tony Cygan To: Stan Bischof Re: Re: EV'S 3 OF 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e35dbc2 -=> Quoting Stan Bischof to All <=- : DK>At 10-15 : DK>cents worth of electricity per hour, opportunity charging is one : DK>of the least expensive way to mitigate pollution in congested areas. : DK>Quick-charge stations are intended to be to the EV what the standard : DK>service station is to the ICE car. You pull in, plug in, get a rapid : DK>recharge, and go on your way. SB> : 10 to 15 cents worth of electricity for a Quick charge??? Again, SB> NOT : LIKELY!! 10 to 15 dollars for a quick charge at a restaurant SB> seems more : likely. SB> Easy enough to estimate: SB> Around here 10 cents will get you perhaps 2kWh worth. That's about SB> 3HP-hours. And that's at off-peak rates. SB> Anyhow, ask yourself how far you could drive something bigger than SB> a skateboard with 3HP-hours worth of energy. Really slick small car SB> might take as little as 10HP to keep going on freeway at say 50MPH. SB> Then your dime will get you approx 15 miles or so before your next SB> 'quick stop charge'. SB> Stan, The idea behind "opportunity charging" at reasturants, grocery stores, etc, is to allow you to extend the effective range of your Electric Vehicle, not allow you to travel great distances on that 10 cent charge. On the other hand a "quick charge" is designed to refill your batteries when they are nearly empty, so on a trip from one town to another you will not run out of "fuel"... Opportunity charging will probably not cost more than normal rates, but quick charging will probably be reasonably related to how gas stations charge for gasoline (market driven). I doubt very much that it would cost $10-15 dollars for this quick charge, but more likely $2-3 dollars for 15 Kilowatts of power. This would give the station owner a healthy profit margin of almost twice the going rate for that power. Tony ... Sac EV Assoc. meets 2nd Sat each month at 0930; 6201 S St. Sac, Ca. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (225) Wed 27 Jul 94 0:00 By: Tony Cygan To: Victor Lance Vescovo Re: Re: Flywheel EV Prototyp ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e35dbc4 -=> Quoting Victor Lance Vescovo to All <=- VLV> : AFS expects their prototype vehicle (flywheel powered) will have VLV> : a range of 370 miles on a 15 minute charge of household current VLV> : and zip from zero to 60mph in 6.8 seconds. They expect it to be VLV> : completed sometime next year. The article goes on to mention a VLV> : few technical details which I'll post if people are interested. VLV> Curious, how in the world do they get by the gyroscope problem created VLV> by flywheel-driven vehicles? From what I've heard, flywheel-cars make VLV> turning corners or going uphill quite difficult. . . Hello, It's my understanding that the flywheel batteries will use counter rotating wheels to offset this effect. ... Support California's ZEV regulations. Call or write CARB ! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (226) Fri 22 Jul 94 23:45 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b7c0 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics @Message-Id: Date: 22 Jul 94 23:45:43 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 21 Jul 1994, Harry H Conover wrote: > As the population wakes up to the real cost of fossil fuels in terms > of environmental destruction, what are today's nightmare concerns about > nukes will shrink. In comparison any combustion base energy source, nuclear > will emerge as both benign and environment friendly. With continuing > improvement in reactor technology, nuclear will not only provided > clean, easily distributed, cost-effective energy, and a potentially > renewable energy resource. > > (omitted....) > > While fission-phobes may try to wish central nuclear away...it IS coming... > and about time, because there is no real alternative. Nuclear power is a dead end as far as the U.S. is concerned except in the hearts of some engineers and others with a vested interest in it's continued existance. Now that the cost of decommissioning plants must be factored into the life cycle operating cost of n-plants no company or utility will touch them with a ten foot pole. They are guaranteed money losers, let alone the fact that we still have no good way of dealing with the "hot" left overs. Maybe we can store them in your garage? I thought not. This conference is for the discussion of clean, earth-friendly power technology. Nuclear does not meet any of those criteria. If you wish to continue this line of discussion please take it to sci.energy where your idea will find many entusiastic supporters. Lots of GE and Westinghouse folks frequent that discussion. We operate under the concept that the only nuke we'll ever need is convieniently 93 million miles away. Don Kulha Moderator HOMEPOWER Co-founder alt.energy.renewable/renew-energy --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (227) Sat 23 Jul 94 0:14 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b843 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 00:14:36 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 21 Jul 1994, DaveHatunen wrote: > A lot of people think hydro is a renewable power source. It's not. All > dams are destined to silt up eventually, and become useless for power > generation and flood control. There are no economically feasible ways > to clear out the silt. Lest someone actually believe Dave's statement about Hydro being a non-renewable resource please keep in mind that he's speaking of large scale hydro. Such may be the case (though the engineer I just spoke to thought not but will check on this and get back to me) for the big stuff but small hydro doesn't have this problem (if it did an afternoon with a shovel ought to fix things in most cases). Hydro is one of the best sources of energy in the renewables field. > The time frame for silting varies from dam to dam, of course, but some > very important dams are figured to be silted up within a century or so. > Once this happens at Boulder Dam, for instance, there will be > downstream catastrophe as the devestating lower Colorado River floods > of yesteryear return. And a major source of power will be lost. I'm skeptical about our inability to do anything about silting Dave. We dredge habors, make canals etc. and can't deal with some silt? I hope to get feedback next week from the people at Hetch hetchy and Hoover so I'll let you know one way or another what I find out. DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (228) Sat 23 Jul 94 0:22 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: QUIET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b86e @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: QUIET @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 00:22:24 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 22 Jul 1994, Jack Coats wrote: > In article , Doug.Hoffman@psybbs.durham.nc.us (Doug Hoffman) writes: > >>From: hoffman@cs.unc.edu (Doug Hoffman) > >>On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable generators that can > >>run on propane? Do they exist, how long do they run on a tank of gas, do they > >>cost more than gasoline, etc? > > I'd like one that runs on natural gas... Especially if it is fairly quiet... > Are there any 'cheap' methods of conversion from gas to nat'l gas? There are many manufacturers offering propane versions of their products and even a few offering "tri-fuel" versions (gas, propane, nat.gas). There are also some aftermarket kits for converting popular generators to dual/tri fuel configurations. Will keep you in mind next time I run across this info. DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (229) Sat 23 Jul 94 1:16 By: Bill Parker To: All Re: deep cycles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b93c @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: bill@brenta.eepo.dialix.oz.au (Bill Parker) @Subject: deep cycles @Message-Id: <9407230853.aa07558@cessysv.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au> Date: 23 Jul 94 01:16:24 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don Kulha (19 Jul 94 16:31:38 GMT) said that "........is that car batteries are a very poor investment. They are meant for "float" conditions where they are shallow discharged to start a car and nearly immediatly refilled to full. You need a deep discharge battery, at least a gold cart or marine trolling type, better a true deep discharge such as the "L-16" type (6v-350ah). Dependant on how you truely used/recharged a car battery it might only last 6 months (or less)." Will someone give their best definition of what is deep cycle, and why. I need this to explain to *complete laypeople* with no knowledge of anything technical. Monosyllabic words and plenty of analogies are especially welcome. "Don't give up the day job" (Dr) Bill Parker - Fax & Phone +619 328 3804 Box 175 North Perth Western Australia 6006 --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (230) Sat 23 Jul 94 1:17 By: Albert Ingman To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003b93d @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Albert.Ingman@launchpad.unc.edu (Albert Ingman) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics @Message-Id: <30pr3s$sm2@lambada.oit.unc.edu> Date: 23 Jul 94 01:17:48 GMT @Sender: bbs@lambada.oit.unc.edu Does not anything that helps to reduce emissions help the enviorment? Electric cars might not be emissions free but they should help lower pollution. Isn't that the aim? Bert +--------------------------------------------+ | From: Bert a.k.a: Albert Ingman | | Reply To: Albert.Ingman@lambada.oit.unc.edu| +--------------------------------------------+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Launchpad is an experimental internet BBS. The views of its users do not necessarily represent those of UNC-Chapel Hill, OIT, or the SysOps. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- * Origin: Usenet:The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, t (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (231) Sat 23 Jul 94 2:44 By: Harry H Conover To: All Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003ba85 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) @Subject: No Opposing Viewpoints Please @Message-Id: <30q073$t8s@sundog.tiac.net> Date: 23 Jul 94 02:44:50 GMT Don Kulha, Moderator of this conference, has apparently taken offense with some of my postings and followups, making it clear that my presence is unwanted. He sums up his opion this way: > This conference is for the discussion of clean, earth-friendly > power technology. Nuclear does not meet any of those criteria. If you > wish to continue this line of discussion please take it to sci.energy > where your idea will find many entusiastic supporters. Lots of GE and > Westinghouse folks frequent that discussion. We operate under the concept > that the only nuke we'll ever need is convieniently 93 million miles away. > > Don Kulha > Moderator HOMEPOWER If I have offended the sensibilities of anyone here, I respectfully offer my appologies. I was under the mistaken opion that this was an unmoderated newsgroup for open, uncensored discussion, including presentation of dissenting viewpoints. Don has pointed out to me that this is, indeed, not the case, and only postings consistent with his own viewpoints are to be made here. This is, of course, unacceptable to me. I cannot retract what I believe to be truth. As I have mentioned to Don, I have no stake in this other than my concern for the environment and the future of our planet. I also believe that many alternative energy ideas are without substance or merit, impractical, or dangerous. Often, schemes touted or promoted by those profiting most from their implementation. My main concern, however, is the way that alternative energy hopes/dreams can distract from the establishment and implementation of an environment and need-responsive, practical, energy policy for the long term. Kindest regards... Harry C. I have responded to Don via E-mail as follows: ---------------------------------------------- Sorry Don. I'll avoid your conference then, except for one final post. I'm sure that you'll at least allow me this. I'm sorry to hear that you hold such a narrrow and provincial prospective on what is good for the environment here on old 'Mother Earth.' Perhaps a little practical education in fundamental science could help, or possibly an extended air survey of some environmentally destroyed portions of the mid-west would help illuminate you. No, I guess that it wouldn't. I realize that it is often easier to bask in New Age magical beliefs, strictly avoiding any head on discussions of the real pros and cons of an issue. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that open discussion of subjects was so restricted here, until you informed me. Although I do resent your inference that I have some financial issues or involvement fueling my posts, I can assure you that this is not the case. I do not now, nor have I ever had any involvment, direct or derivative with the nuclear power industry. Any potential conflicts of interest are on the other side of this discussion. What about you Don, is your heart and conscience as pure as mine...have you any financial motives in any of this? By the was, what is "Homepower"? Have you ever produced, marketed, or sold any alternative energy products? Come on Don, come clean on this. We can't have the kettle callin the pot black, can we Don? My stake in this discussion is a vested interest in our environment, which, quite frankly, your anti-technology attitudes appear Hell-bent-on-destroying (if I may reuse that fine old phrase), albeit by ignorance. For me, I've witnessed enough environmental destruction and public health problems stemming from combustion based energy technology, while clean, safe, nuclear energy remains relatively untapped, except for the more advanced nations. This is due primarily to its hysterical, post-war receiption loudly voice by the anti-techies of out time -- the grandchildren of those that opposed gas lights, and electricity as dangerous, life threatening novelties. These are cousins of the people that characterised a.c. electricity as being "...so dangerous that it is even used for executions." Fortunately, as our nation becomes somewhat more sophisticated, nuclear becomes the lesser of multiple evils, coal, oil, wood, and natural gas now becoming the bad guys. My reaction to potential energy alternatives is, in fact, one of interest. I would love to power my home with solar, or wind, or geothermal energy. Unfortunately, like most of our population, I live in an urban area with only tree acres of land, in a densely populated part of the country. 'Renewable power', sure, show me and I'll listen. However, please don't feed me nonsense, because I will check out the numbers myself, and having an education both in science and technology, I am qualified to do so. Does this make me a dangerous person. If you persist in believing in an Energy Santa Claus, I guess that it does. So I leave you with this thought: Continue to believe in the New Age Renewable Energy Myths if you wish, however, please have the decency to support the expense (fiscal and environmentl) yourselves, and please, please make sure that I am not aversely impacted by your, quaint, but naive ideas. Run your cars on hydrogen, but please, not on the highways that I travel. Heat your homes with wood, but please, don't pollute the air I breathe. Dam up your stream, but don't affect my flow. And continue to use fossil fuel generated electricity, but don't strip-mine in the USA or allow your fossil fuel plan generated acid rain, toxins and carcinogens to fall here either. But most off all, don't get into a discussion of your ideas in a free an open discussion forum. You might just learn something, or even worse, be shown that the entire concept is hum drum! Sorry Don, I thought Usenet was for free and open discussions, including the presentation of opposing viewpoints. Based on your comments, it isn't. The only question that remains is: are you authorized to speak for all of its participants? Kindest regards... Harry C. --- * Origin: Usenet:The Internet Access Company (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (232) Fri 29 Jul 94 0:00 By: Tony Cygan To: Stan Bischof Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e388cd0 -=> Quoting Stan Bischof to All <=- SB> From: stanb@hpnmrsb2.sr.hp.com (Stan Bischof) SB> Date: 20 Jul 94 19:10:57 GMT SB> Let's say that solar cells are 100% efficient yet cost $1000 per ^^^^^^^^^ SB> watt installed. ^^^^ Right now you can get Solar power at $2-5.00 per watt with the panels only 15% effecient. What makes you think this would change to such a drastic amount (20,000 % more !). SB> On a good day you might get me to pay 10 cents per kilowatt hour- SB> which is based upon what I can already get electricity for. Now you SB> install for $1000 a single one watt cell and start pumping juice out SB> to me. SB> Well, every thousand hours of daylight I'll send you a dime. Good SB> deal right- after all the sun is free? SB> The astute observer may notice that I'll be sending something like SB> 30 cents per year so in about 3000 years you might be able to pay SB> back your initial investment. (Though of course the cells will die SB> in a decade or so anyhow- but that's another story.) (And of course SB> a .003 % return on your kilobuck investment might not be considered SB> exactly stellar- but that's yet another story.) SB> Basically you have fallen into a very common trap for solar SB> enthusiasts-- SB> the 'fuel' may be free, but that becomes almost irrelevant to the cost SB> of producing electricity. Using such illogical numbers that you do makes no sense. If it would cost such a drastic amount to get 100% effeciency no one would bother doing it. You would just use more of the "cheap" modules to accomplish your goal. (and many people already do it). SB> Which is not to say that there is anything wrong with solar- just that SB> it's easy to ignore economics when presented with seemingly great SB> deals! SB> -- SB> Stan Bischof SB> Hewlett Packard Sonoma County ... Support California's ZEV regulations. Call or write CARB ! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (233) Fri 29 Jul 94 10:21 By: Tony Cygan To: James W Dille Re: Re: EV's 3 of 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e391e5e -=> Quoting James W Dille to All <=- JWD> From: jwd@cec1.wustl.edu (James W Dille) JWD> Date: 20 Jul 94 22:21:49 GMT JWD> The pack exchange idea sounds workable, but if, as I have heard, it JWD> will $4,000 per year to keep oneself in batteries (on the average), JWD> with pack exchange that cost will still have to be borne by someone. If JWD> you exchange packs 100 times a year, wouldn't the fee have to be at JWD> least $40 a shot? And if an exchange will take you another 100 miles, JWD> it's pretty expensive and slow going. I've never heard these numbers, can you provide me with information on where you heard it from ??? If true then I don't think it would be a plausible solution and would not happen as the market would not accept it, and some other way of fast charging would come out. The big hurdle for battery pack exchange as I see it, is conformity. Every maker of Electric Cars would have to agree on a standard and then keep it, pretty much forever, so it's not likely to happen soon. Tony ... Sacramento Electric Vehicle Association...We're CHARGED up... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (234) Fri 29 Jul 94 0:00 By: Tony Cygan To: Nick Lindert Re: electric scooters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e388cd4 -=> Quoting Nick Lindert to All <=- NL> From: nlindert@ichips.intel.com (Nick Lindert) NL> Date: 20 Jul 94 22:42:09 GMT NL> I once heard of someone having an electric scooter. Does anyone have NL> details on one of these? Who sells them? Cost? etc. NL> -- NL> Nick Lindert NL> Mailstop: JF1-19 NL> Home: (503)614-0731 NL> Work: (503)696-9074 Nick, there are a few people selling these things. You might try calling the following numbers as a place to start. -- Doran Motor Co. at (702)359-7356 -- Green Motor Works at (818)766-3800 Tony ... Sacramento Electric Vehicle Association...We're CHARGED up... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (235) Mon 25 Jul 94 14:13 By: Dean Kuusela To: all Re: Electrical Generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:153/214.86 e34017b0 @PID: timEd/2 1.00 Hello all! I need to pick up a 5000 watt electrical generator for a cabin up in the boonies. For a new generator, does anyone know how much gasoline is used per hour at full load? Also, any recommendations as to brands? Thanks. Catcha later, Dean --- * Origin: Barbary Coast (1:153/214.86) @PATH: 153/214 752 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (236) Sat 23 Jul 94 15:06 By: Larry London To: All Re: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c029 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) @Subject: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please @Message-Id: <30rbl7$nog@bigblue.oit.unc.edu> Date: 23 Jul 94 15:06:15 GMT In article <30q073$t8s@sundog.tiac.net> conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes: Nice try, Harry! :-) :-) :-) :-) Think of all the solar retrofits for your house you could have dreamed up in the time you wasted writing all this drivel. >I was under the mistaken opion that this was >an unmoderated newsgroup for open, uncensored discussion, including >presentation of dissenting viewpoints. You could make that statement about _any_ newsgroup. This one obviously has a certain useful focus to set it apart from the other energy newsgroups. Why can't you go along with this instead of making a stink. Many of us would like to get something out of this conference and not have to wade through distracting, irrelevent rhetoric. >My main concern, however, is the way that alternative energy >hopes/dreams can distract from the establishment and implementation >of an environment and need-responsive, practical, energy policy >for the long term. Now where have I heard that line before; probably from throwbacks attempting to discredit alternative agriculture in similar fashion. I can hear it all over again: "Without chemicals the world would starve". I think I hear what you're saying: "Renewable energy proponents are blocking progress and causing our national energy infrastructure to degenerate" >My stake in this discussion is a vested interest in our environment, Liar. >which, quite frankly, your anti-technology attitudes appear >Hell-bent-on-destroying (if I may reuse that fine old phrase), Ridiculous. See above. >The only question that remains is: are you authorized to speak for all >of its participants? Of course he is. I'll call your bluff. You're just another writer paid by some power company to harass those of us in this conference. Your hopelessly inept attempts to discredit renewable energy techology are ignored here. Go peddle your drivel outside Usenet. --- * Origin: Usenet:University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (237) Sat 23 Jul 94 15:53 By: Fatih A Rifki To: All Re: Re: Solar South Calculation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c0b5 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: rifki@unity.ncsu.edu (Fatih A Rifki) @Subject: Re: Solar South Calculation @Message-Id: <30reeh$okt@taco.cc.ncsu.edu> Date: 23 Jul 94 15:53:53 GMT In article <30p5t0$hiq@nyx.cs.du.edu>, Allen J. Filson wrote: >(1) How do you determine the location of "Solar South" as opposed to the >"Magnetic South"? I know there is a difference between the two but is it >great enough to worry about? > An excellent source is Ed Mazria's Solar Energy Book. The difference between the two depends on where you are located. For example in Maine and Washington state it can be as much as 30 degrees. Locality is also important. For example a site close to a power plant (electric) or tranformer/switchgear may throw the magnetic reading immensely. Good luck. FR --- * Origin: Usenet:North Carolina State University (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (238) Sat 23 Jul 94 5:07 By: Mark O. Wilson To: All Re: Re: GOT ANY IDEA???? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c119 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark O. Wilson) @Subject: Re: GOT ANY IDEA???? @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 05:07:44 GMT @Sender: news@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Usenet News) In <846_9407171000@psybbs.durham.nc.us> Lewis.Cosper@f12.n356.z1.fidonet.org (Lewis Cosper) writes: |Hi Tony, |> If I had a buck for every time I've heard this one I could |> retire today. |Yup me too. |Don't know if it is a truth or not. The author did cite name, date, |location, the year and provided a drawing of the contraption. That's a bit |more challenging than vague rumor. Even assuming perfect combustion. The cars of the 50's still could not have gotten 200 mph. The rest of the engine was to inefficient, and the aerodynamics were not there. Not to mention the sheer frontal area. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.O.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com --- * Origin: Usenet:AT&T Global Information Solutions (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (239) Sat 23 Jul 94 5:12 By: Mark O. Wilson To: All Re: Re: OLD JUNK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c11b @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark O. Wilson) @Subject: Re: OLD JUNK @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 05:12:25 GMT @Sender: news@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Usenet News) In <270_9407161643@psybbs.durham.nc.us> Tony.Weeks@p357.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Tony Weeks) writes: |On (13 Jul 94) John Draper wrote to Tony Weeks... | JD> I have found that a great cleaner for carburetors and injectors, is | JD> naptha. Add 1 oz per gallon of gasoline. I will remove the most | JD> stubborn coatings of varnish. DO NOT put into anything plastic | JD> however, as it will disolve it. You can get naptha at paint stores. | I'll have to try it. This could do the trick for cleaning woith | out dissemblly. Don't many carburetors have platic parts in them? -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.O.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com --- * Origin: Usenet:AT&T Global Information Solutions (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (240) Sat 23 Jul 94 5:22 By: Mark O. Wilson To: All Re: Re: EV'S 3 OF 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c11c @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark O. Wilson) @Subject: Re: EV'S 3 OF 4 @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 05:22:07 GMT @Sender: news@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Usenet News) In <864_9407171000@psybbs.durham.nc.us> Bill.Basford@f406.n326.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Basford) writes: |In part three of the messges on EVs: |Here in Maine, peak loads and peak rates are 8 am to 12 noon, and then |again from 4 to 8 pm. So if an employee with an EV arrives at 8 am, he |is already faced with peak electric rates. The 12 noon to 4 pm period |is called the "shoulder rate" and is typically midway betwen peak and |off-peak rates. Not as bad as peak rates, but still no bargain, so |recharging at the office is not a good option here in Maine. Many people go out to eat at lunch. While they may typically drive only a few miles, they will need to top off agian when they get back to the office. |profit from that investment. That means you can expect to pay more |than just the regular retail price for the electricity. I would hope that the owner could meter the service. -- Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money. Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related. Mark.O.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com --- * Origin: Usenet:AT&T Global Information Solutions (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (241) Sat 23 Jul 94 16:50 By: Scott Evenson To: All Re: Re: Human Powered Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c1ef @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: evenson@cs.sfu.ca (Scott Evenson) @Subject: Re: Human Powered Vehicles @Message-Id: <1994Jul23.165036.19935@cs.sfu.ca> Date: 23 Jul 94 16:50:36 GMT @Sender: news@cs.sfu.ca @Reply-To: evenson@cs.sfu.ca In article 8Er@stortek.com, timothyw@stortek.com (Timothy Wilson x4040) writes: >There is a mailing list that is specifically for HPVs. To subscribe, mail >a message to Majordomo@zippy.sonoma.edu. Do not put anything on the subject >line. In the body of the message place this line: > > subscribe hpv > >I hope this helps > >Tim > I believe you must use majordomo@zippy.sonoma.edu to subscribe, since using Majordomo@zippy.sonoma.edu did not work for me. The general information from the list seems to confirm this, I quote: To subscribe to the list, send an email message ... to this address: majordomo@zippy.sonoma.edu The general information also lists the following mailing lists (which I duplicate here for the benefit of those not interested in HPVs in particular): BikeCommute Silicon Valley bicycle commuters Send mail to bm@bike2work.eng.sun.com BikeAnnounce A subset of BikeCommute, just event and meeting announcements Send mail to bm@bike2work.eng.sun.com ebikes New York cycling discussion Send mail to ebikes-request@mailhost.panix.com ev Electric Vehicle List Send the message SUBSCRIBE EV FIRSTNAME LASTNAME to LISTSERV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU dcbike Washington, DC cycling discussion Send mail to wsilverman@igc.apc.org tandem Tandem Bicycles Send mail to tandem-request@hobbes.ucsd.edu bikecurrent Bicycle Lighting and Electronics Send mail to bikecurrent-request@zule.eng.sun.com bicycle General discussion list Send command (in body of message) SUBSCRIBE BICYCLE real name to listproc@yukon.cren.org Hope this helps! Best regards, Scott. Scott Evenson. evenson@sfu.ca evenson@cs.sfu.ca School of Engineering Science Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, CANADA V5A 1S6 (604) 291-7310 VOICE (home) (604) 291-4951 FAX PS: To the original poster ... try reading the IHPVA (from Rec.Bicycles Frequently Asked Questions): International Human Powered Vehicle Association P.O. Box 51255 Indianapolis, IN 46251 USA They publish Human Power Magazine and HPV News on all aspects of human powered transportation (bikes, aircraft, watercraft.) Dues are US$25/year in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, and US$30 elsewhere. --- * Origin: Usenet:Simon Fraser University (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (242) Thu 28 Jul 94 22:50 By: John Thompson To: Doug Hoffman Re: Propane generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/120 86EE1B23 -=> Quoting Ian Woofenden to Doug Hoffman <=- IW> On (11 Jul 94) Doug Hoffman wrote to All... DH> On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable DH> generators that can run on propane? Do they exist, how long DH> do they run on a tank of gas, do they cost more than DH> gasoline, etc? I was just out at a job today, and what do I see but a Colman generator 12hp (The green ones) hooked up to a propane tank from a gas grill. The carburator looked like it was the stock unit with very little modification. I totaly forgot to ask the homeowner about it though..sorry John T. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- WM v3.11/93-0192 * Origin: Bashful Pervert BBS (305) 472-7715 28800 V.32bis (1:369/120) @PATH: 369/120 83 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (243) Sat 23 Jul 94 19:32 By: Dewey Coffman To: All Re: TCA: Renewables in Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c568 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman) @Subject: TCA: Renewables in Texas @Message-Id: <1994Jul23.193245.17822@sooner.ctci.com> Date: 23 Jul 94 19:32:45 GMT @Sender: dewey@sooner.ctci.com (Dewey Coffman) How can we make Texas powerful again? Renewables are Ready by Tom "Smitty" Smith Director of Public Citizen's Texas office Texas is about to become a net energy importer. Every month, we will be sending money out of state for the energy we are using to power our cars, factories, homes and businesses. Traditionally, we have made money by selling energy, and our state budget has been fattened by severance taxes paid on our energy exports - but no longer. Our oil and gas reserves are dwindling, the cost of imported oil is declining and the utilities are buying coal from Wyoming to meet federal clean air guidelines. We can make Texas powerful again as an energy exporter and renewable energies are ready to do it. Texas is second among the states in its potential to generate electricity with renewable energies such as the wind, sun and geothermal resources. We have enough wind in Texas to supply 5.3 times our needs for electricity and could potentially supply ten percent of all the electricity needed in the U.S. with our wind resources alone. We have the capacity to produce 6.5 times as much electricity as we need with solar power. Wind turbines are now as cheap to build and operate as new coal or gas plants when you count the environmental damages done by burning coal or natural gas. Solar power stations are still more expensive than coal or gas plants, but far cheaper than operating and cleaning up after nuclear powered plants. Solar power is frequently used to provide reliable power in remote locations where the cost of running a powerline is high. Rural homes, barns, gates, oil field equipment, railroad crossing guards and emergency telephone boxes along highways are examples where solar power is a cost effective solution for providing energy. Commercial quality winds for wind power are in far West Texas, the Panhandle, along the Gulf Coast and near Laredo. You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to run or maintain a wind turbine. They require many of the same skills used in the oil fields. Wind turbines use only five percent of each acre of land, thus allowing the existing use of farm and ranch lands to continue. Texans make the equipment necessary to power this next boom. We make wind turbines near Wichita Falls and towers in El Paso. We manufacture photovoltaic systems in Houston, Dallas and other parts of the state. A unique solar dish engine is now being built in Abilene. So why aren't we using renewable energy to meet our needs. Governor Richards' Public Utility Commission has failed to take the actions necessary to create a truly competitive market for electricity in Texas. For over two years they have been stalling passage rules that would require utilities to fairly evaluate all the ways of producing power and choose the cheapest when all the costs are counted. The hidden costs of generating power are enormous. Texas leads the nation in the emission of gases causing acid rain, the greenhouse effect and in toxins form our utilities. Today, utilities don't consider that a new coal plant might mean that we send Texans hard-earned dollars to Wyoming to buy coal or that a dramatic increase in pollution will cause health problems in humans and decrease the productivity of the lands down wind due to acid rain. Currently, five of the top five polluters in Texas generate power. In 24 states the Public Utilities Commissions have passed rules that require comparison of costs prior to permitting new plants. Texas can become powerful again, but the Richards Administration will have to quit fiddling as the coal burns. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Texas Citizen Action Membership Info Membership: $5 minimum a year, $15 a year for newsletter. Newsletter: Quartlerly(if funding warrents) Address: Texas Citizen Action, 3625 Manchaca, #202, Austin, 78704 From: Lisa_M._Kaselak@txinfinet.com (Lisa M. Kaselak) Phone: (512) 444-8588 -- Dewey Coffman dewey@ctci.com dewey@cactus.org dewey@bga.com CTC Texas Inc. Notary Public, after 5pm service available. USDA Zone 8. Compost Happens. All opinions expressed are unrelated to reality. Austin Beer Club "If you fail to plan, plan to fail" "One Dollar, One Vote" --- * Origin: Usenet:CTC, Inc., Austin, TX. U.S. of A. 78731-1819, Grea (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (244) Sat 23 Jul 94 22:29 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c63d @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 @SPLIT: 01 Aug 94 10:11:45 @3641/223 7358 01/02 ++++++++++ From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 22:29:03 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 23 Jul 1994, Harry H Conover wrote: > > Don Kulha, Moderator of this conference, has apparently taken offense > with some of my postings and followups, making it clear that my presence > is unwanted. He sums up his opion this way: > > > This conference is for the discussion of clean, earth-friendly > > power technology. Nuclear does not meet any of those criteria. If you > > wish to continue this line of discussion please take it to sci.energy > > where your idea will find many entusiastic supporters. Lots of GE and > > Westinghouse folks frequent that discussion. We operate under the concept > > that the only nuke we'll ever need is convieniently 93 million miles away. > > > > Don Kulha > > Moderator HOMEPOWER Co-founder alt.energy.renewable/renew-energy (I believe you accidently chopped that part) > If I have offended the sensibilities of anyone here, I respectfully > offer my appologies. I was under the mistaken opion that this was > an unmoderated newsgroup for open, uncensored discussion, including > presentation of dissenting viewpoints. Don has pointed out to me > that this is, indeed, not the case, and only postings consistent > with his own viewpoints are to be made here. This is, of course, > unacceptable to me. My point was/is that I think discussion of the merit/acceptability of fission based power was already ongoing in sci.energy and that the "pro" side was being well represented (who better than the folks building the stuff). Could be that I'm kind of out of line. I thought I included the "Cofounder" bit above in my message to point out that I'm not an offical moderator as such but co-founder of this conference. The HOMEPOWR in the above references a conference on renewable energy on another net I created and helped grow. I feel some ownership and responsibility to help nurture the discussion of renewables here. I think that the vast majority of folks interested in developing renewables consider nuclear a scourge on the earth. Hell, I know they do having talked with so many renewables fans over the years. The mission statement for the discussion and my subsequent posts are intended to dissuade debate on the feasability of nuclear. I haven't heard a whole lot of anti-nuclear stuff either because it's pretty much a dead issue now that plant operators (and potential one's) have to factor in total life cycle costs. > I cannot retract what I believe to be truth. As I have mentioned > to Don, I have no stake in this other than my concern for the > environment and the future of our planet. I also believe that > many alternative energy ideas are without substance or merit, > impractical, or dangerous. Often, schemes touted > or promoted by those profiting most from their implementation. > My main concern, however, is the way that alternative energy > hopes/dreams can distract from the establishment and implementation > of an environment and need-responsive, practical, energy policy > for the long term. Your concern is admirable Sir and history may prove you correct. You are correct that some alternative energy ideas are without merit. I've heard of more free-energy, magneto-dyno-whatsits, and the like over the years than I care for. There are some core renewables technologies that are well proven, do work, and are appropriate for many situations. > Kindest regards... > Harry C. > > I have responded to Don via E-mail as follows: > ---------------------------------------------- > > Sorry Don. I'll avoid your conference then, except for one final post. > I'm sure that you'll at least allow me this. > > I'm sorry to hear that you hold such a narrrow and provincial prospective > on what is good for the environment here on old 'Mother Earth.' Perhaps > a little practical education in fundamental science could help, or possibly > an extended air survey of some environmentally destroyed portions > of the mid-west would help illuminate you. No, I guess that it wouldn't. Think I have a good handle on fundamentals of science and am well aware of how badly we've screwed up our environment. I'm not suggesting burning coal or much of anything except relatively clean bio-fuels and perhaps some hydrogen. I'm really quite concerned with closing the carbon loop. > I realize that it is often easier to bask in New Age magical beliefs, > strictly avoiding any head on discussions of the real pros and cons of > an issue. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that open discussion of > subjects was so restricted here, until you informed me. I take it then that you believe that folks interested in renewable low-impact energy technologies are crackpots? I may be mis-interpreting your use of the "New Age magical" reference above... > Although I do resent your inference that I have some financial issues > or involvement fueling my posts, I can assure you that this is not the > case. I do not now, nor have I ever had any involvment, direct or > derivative with the nuclear power industry. Any potential conflicts > of interest are on the other side of this discussion. What about > you Don, is your heart and conscience as pure as mine...have you any > financial motives in any of this? By the was, what is "Homepower"? > Have you ever produced, marketed, or sold any alternative energy > products? Come on Don, come clean on this. We can't have the kettle > callin the pot black, can we Don? Home Power is the name of a magazine which touts itself as the "Hands on Journal or Home-made power" that deals with renewable energy and specifically it's practical home-scale system application. Home Power provided the inspiration for the conference we started about 3 years ago and has been kind enough to provide us with the text and graphics from their articles over the years to post online free of charge. I certainly hope they benefit some from this exposure at very least to the extent that their allowing us to share the back issues online (37 of 41 issues) cuts into their back issue sales. They're doing great work, good hard nosed factual reporting and have done a lot to promote the growth of renewables technology. They aren't getting rich either though have recently passed up a couple offers to buy their magazine which would have let them retire in comfort. Dedicated and good people. I do receive some compensation from them to the extent that my subscription always seems to automagically get renewed gratis (they did buy me a great burrito at dinner last sunday night too). Most of the folks here likely know that I publish and sell a CDROM which contains the Home Power back issues and several hundred other assorted files on renewable energy, sustainability and environment. For the most part I have downplayed that here (fairly sucessfully based on your message). > My stake in this discussion is a vested interest in our environment, > which, quite frankly, your anti-technology attitudes appear > Hell-bent-on-destroying (if I may reuse that fine old phrase), > albeit by ignorance. For me, I've witnessed enough environmental > destruction and public health problems stemming from combustion > based energy technology, while clean, safe, nuclear energy remains > relatively untapped, except for the more advanced nations. This > is due primarily to its hysterical, post-war receiption loudly > voice by the anti-techies of out time -- the grandchildren of those > that opposed gas lights, and electricity as dangerous, life threatening > novelties. These are cousins of the people that characterised > a.c. electricity as being "...so dangerous that it is even used for > executions." Fortunately, as our nation becomes somewhat more > sophisticated, nuclear becomes the lesser of multiple evils, coal, oil, > wood, and natural gas now becoming the bad guys. I'm far from anti-technology...I just want clean low-impact energy. I'm willing to pay for it and I know it works within reasonable expectations. I have lots of friends using solar, wind and hydro to supply their energy needs who live quite comfortably. Most of them are techies pushing the enevelope of energy technology. Renewable doesn't necessarily mean low tech...usually quite the opposite though often the simplest implementations are the most reliable and cost effective. > My reaction to potential energy alternatives is, in fact, one of interest. > I would love to power my home with solar, or wind, or geothermal energy. > Unfortunately, like most of our population, I live in an urban area with > only tree acres of land, in a densely populated part of the country. > 'Renewable power', sure, show me and I'll listen. However, please don't > feed me nonsense, because I will check out the numbers myself, and > having an education both in science and technology, I am qualified > to do so. Does this make me a dangerous person. If you persist > in believing in an Energy Santa Claus, I guess that it does. Good one. I usually refer to the "energy fairy". I certainly do hope that folks here always investigate and "run the numbers" when presented with new info. Historically such has been the case and nobody gets away with much. By the same token, I also don't believe we have any expectation of continueing on the energy binge we've enjoyed as a nation in the past. > So I leave you with this thought: Continue to believe in the New > Age Renewable Energy Myths if you wish, however, please have the > decency to support the expense (fiscal and environmentl) yourselves, > and please, please make sure that I am not aversely impacted by your, --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (245) Sat 23 Jul 94 17:29 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: 02:Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c63f @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 @SPLIT: 01 Aug 94 10:11:45 @3641/223 7358 02/02 ++++++++++ From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 22:29:03 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > quaint, but naive ideas. Run your cars on hydrogen, but please, not > on the highways that I travel. Heat your homes with wood, but please, > don't pollute the air I breathe. Dam up your stream, but don't affect > my flow. And continue to use fossil fuel generated electricity, > but don't strip-mine in the USA or allow your fossil fuel plan generated > acid rain, toxins and carcinogens to fall here either. > > But most off all, don't get into a discussion of your ideas in > a free an open discussion forum. You might just learn something, > or even worse, be shown that the entire concept is hum drum! > > Sorry Don, I thought Usenet was for free and open discussions, including > the presentation of opposing viewpoints. Based on your comments, it > isn't. > > The only question that remains is: are you authorized to speak for all > of its participants? > > Kindest regards... > > Harry C. > Nope, not by a long shot. I suppose it's somewhat anarchistic of me to create and try and focus this discussion. I feel pretty comfortable championing the technology and trying to help the conference grow. DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (246) Sat 23 Jul 94 22:42 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c680 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: No Opposing Viewpoints Please @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 22:42:14 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 23 Jul 1994, Larry London wrote: > I'll call your bluff. You're just another writer paid by some power company > to harass those of us in this conference. Your hopelessly inept attempts to > discredit renewable energy techology are ignored here. Go peddle your > drivel outside Usenet. Pretty harsh my friend. I doubt this fellow has any but the best intent in mind and likely no commercial interest. I'd mentioned earlier that much of the pro-nuke discussion seems to come from that camp though. You're just touchy from the commercial opposition the there really seems to be in the alt.agriculture arena. His questioning my right and interest in helping create and focus this forum is certainly appropriate though. I think tradionally we've pretty much been open to this level of inquiry. There's no expectation that folks should blindly accept anything presented here. Perhaps I should have ignored the nuke content and let it die on it's own accord. Was afraid that we'd end up with another of those endless pro-can nuke debates though. Probably an unfounded fear DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (247) Sat 23 Jul 94 22:45 By: Don Kulha To: All Re: Re: TCA: Renewables in Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c682 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dkulha@crl.com (Don Kulha) @Subject: Re: TCA: Renewables in Texas @Message-Id: Date: 23 Jul 94 22:45:30 GMT @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 23 Jul 1994, Dewey Coffman wrote: > > How can we make Texas powerful again? Renewables are Ready > > by Tom "Smitty" Smith > Director of Public Citizen's Texas office Many thanks for sharing this interesting article and the contact info with us Dewey. Much appreciated. DCK --- * Origin: Usenet:renew-energy mailing list (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (248) Sun 24 Jul 94 1:05 By: CYBURG To: All Re: Re: Alternative Energy Internet Server ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003c841 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: cyburg@aol.com (CYBURG) @Subject: Re: Alternative Energy Internet Server @Message-Id: <30sent$6kn@search01.news.aol.com> Date: 24 Jul 94 01:05:01 GMT @Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com In article , gronbeck@access.digex.net (Christopher Gronbeck) writes: Hello Christorpher. This is Cynthia feeling my way along the net from America Online's unfinished gateway. I live in a PV powered home off-grid. My husband and I have a solar electric business called Offline Independent Energy Systems. I am intersted always in connecting with others commited to alternative energy. I have alot to learn and also would enjoy sharing my experience with others. From Cynthia Loweburg --- * Origin: Usenet:America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (249) Fri 29 Jul 94 13:56 By: Ken Finney To: Dave Paxton Re: ELECTRIC BICYCLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 2394 @MSGID: 1:343/70 53d7a80e @REPLY: 1:369/3 86EA7F24 Regarding why the switch contacts not rated for DC tend to burn up, it gets all involved with calculus and such. However, there is an easy way to visualize it. The electrons in DC flow continuously, and when the switch tries to break the flow, an arc results and burns up the contacts. On ac, the flow of electrons goes to zero twice every cycle. When you open the switch, before a significant arc can be established, the flow of electrons goes to zero. In effect, in DC the switch being opened stops the current flow, and in ac the switch keeps the flow of current from starting up again. --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: (1:343/70) @PATH: 343/70 300 1 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (250) Fri 29 Jul 94 14:05 By: Ken Finney To: Stan Bischof Re: Re: Hydrogen Vehicles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.01 2394 @MSGID: 1:343/70 53d7aa10 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 000386e3 * In a message originally to All, Stan Bischof said: > From: stanb@hpnmrsb2.sr.hp.com (Stan Bischof) > Date: 20 Jul 94 19:10:57 GMT > don walli (dwalli@mtu.edu) wrote: > : What about using solar (PV cell) power to drive the > electrolysis > : modules? > : Yes, you have the initial outlay needed to build the cells, > Basically you have fallen into a very common trap for solar > enthusiasts-- > the 'fuel' may be free, but that becomes almost irrelevant to > the cost > of producing electricity. You are correct, but in the past utility companies were subsidized to connect to people "off the main roads". THis is gradually being phased out. Power companies generally charge for hook-up if you are over 200 feet from existing lines, plus a charge per foot. Charges per foot are (examples that I know of) between $3.50 and $10 per foot. If you are 1200 feet from the nearest power line, you can expect to pay between $3,500 and $10,000 for the prividge of paying a monthly bill. You can buy a pretty nice AE system for those dollars. In this case, the cost of maintenance is the only factor, not the original cost of the system. --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: (1:343/70) @PATH: 343/70 300 1 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (251) Sat 30 Jul 94 3:12 By: Zachariah Czeck To: Don Kulha Re: offtopic? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e39fd42 EH> Well, let's put it this way. My shop air is from a EH> 1950 Cadillac compressor EH> driven by a 3/4 horse three phase motor, which was EH> built in 1966. In all those EH> years, most of the time left ON 24 hours a day, (NO EH> leaks) I have yet to add DK> Hi Elvis....I appreciate your interesting post and DK> the spirit in which you're sharing information but we are DK> getting a wee bit off the conference topic here....Thanks DK> for your cooperation.....DCK now let's not go over board here. I think that quite often a lot of good conversation and ideas get quashed because they are "off topic", not always necissarily in this echo mind you, but perfectly valid and useful info get shut down far too often (at all is too often:) Now granted i don't know the full story but Elvis' post and the one he was responding to can have alot to do with the subjects in this echo since the eficient working of the compressor (or any machine) is directly related to the amout of energy it needs to run, wich is important not only in the general NEED to not be wasteful, but is much more immediate for someone who is trying to run the thing off there home PV cells or gerbil wheel generator. . .right? thanks zachariahCzeck jason organist * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] * --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (252) Sat 30 Jul 94 13:14 By: Dave Paxton To: John Thompson Re: Propane generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 86F07EAE JT> DH> On the subject of generators, has anyone heard of portable JT> DH> generators that can run on propane? Do they exist, how long JT> DH> do they run on a tank of gas, do they cost more than JT> DH> gasoline, etc? JT> I was just out at a job today, and what do I see but a JT> Colman generator 12hp (The green ones) hooked up to JT> a propane tank from a gas grill. JT> The carburator looked like it was the stock unit with JT> very little modification. Uhoh, the secrets out of the bag. I have seen MANY systems set up as dual fuel generators that uses the original, unmodified, stock carb. They can still shut off the propane and fill it with gas and fire it up. I have seen 2 typs of set-ups. The first uses a plug on the bottom of the carb in the fuel bowl . Just let the fuel run out, put a fitting in the hole in the bottom of the carb and hook up a line. If you use a demand type regulator on the propane system you are ready to roll. You may have to choke it harder than starting on gasoline, if the regulator has a button that causes the reg. to force a shot of gas into the hose this works better than the choke lever. If the fitting has a shut off in the bottom of the carb then you can just shut off the propane and fill it with gas. The other system uses a demand type reg. and just a hose to the air horn or even into the filtered side of the air filter and the "draw" of the engine will suck propane into the engine. In both cases the throtle still works the same. We use to have an engine that almost never was run other than once every month or two to keep it in operating condition. Instead of filling the tank we drained it and left it empty. That way we didn't have to wory about the fuel going stale. We rolled our accetalene torch out ther, stuck the tip in the throat of the carb, turned on the accet. and fired the engine up. We could vary the fuel flow with the knob on the torch. We would run it for a while to bring the engine up to temperature and then would "smoke it down" with mystery oil. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * Women, can't live with'em... end of story. --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-771-0041 (1:369/3) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/459 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (253) Sun 31 Jul 94 13:42 By: ERIC GRAY To: RON PEREPOLKIN Re: Wasted power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:CE96 F4FF6D40 RP> San Diego and Tucson residents became aware of the wasteful lighting > due to an advertising campaign by city officials and environmental I agree w/you about light pollution, but you are wrong on the following part: RP> Most homeowners feel they must bathe their yard in light to keep > burglars at bay.....*DEAD WRONG* Think about it.... RP> Most burglars prefer a yard with one or two lights, the shadows > created gives them a place to hide. If you hear a noise outside and > investigate they know your eyes are not as dark adapted as theirs and > that you will not see them lurking in the shadows. It's also great to > see what they are stealing from you. > If however the yard is dark the burglar and you are both on the same > level as far as seeing goes and what burglar wants to use a flashlight > to see what he is stealing if he is in your yard? If it's dark in both inside and outside, your eyes no matter how adapted to the dark will not see something outside unless there is light to reflect off of whatever is out there. If it's dark outside and lit inside, you see NOTHING outside, only your reflection in the window. If it's light outside and lit inside, you are at a standoff, he can see you, you can see him. NO, the BEST situation is dark inside, and well lit outside. I agree you dont have to put a dozen flood lights out there, and whatever you do put up should be shielded to light your yard, not the sky or your neighbors, but you need the light out there... And THEN you go on about: RP> The best bet other than a yappy dog is to keep a dark yard and > install motion detector lighting. Why spent your $$$ on *security* > lighting that burns all night and does not work??? Motion detector I can't believe you'd do this all in the same msg. You bitch about light pollution, and then just substitue it for noise pollution. I'll tell you what, I can sleep all night long with my neighbors lights shining into my bedroom, (and they do) but when one of the 4 neigbors dogs start barking, there is nothing I can do to get to sleep. With the light, I draw my drapes or simply roll over, I can't do anything about the "yappy dog" you seem to like. Your points about light pollution are valid, and I agree. If you chck out the origin you'll see I'm in Tucson and support the light ordaninces 100% and even argue with my neighbors about their lights. But your points about security are wrong, and your substitution for one form of pollution for another is mis-guided, at best, and hypocritical at worst. RP> How many of you have ever seen the river of light and billions of > stars in the milky way? The sky at night is very beautiful and > unfortunately many city dwellers will never see it. The milky way will > actually cast shadows on earth if the location is dark enough. Even in Tucson w/all our light ordainces, I still have to leave the city to see the milky way, something I do almost every single sat or friday night. :) eric * OLX 2.1 TD * Pointing out errors in ones beliefs aka Porcupine Bathing --- GOMail v1.2 [92-0673] * Origin: The Desert Reef >(;} * Tucson Az * V32B * 602 624 6386 (1:300/507) @PATH: 300/507 53 15 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (254) Sun 31 Jul 94 13:45 By: ERIC GRAY To: TONY CYGAN Re: Re: EV'S 3 OF 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:68D8 F4FF6DA0 TC> The idea behind "opportunity charging" at reasturants, grocery > stores, etc, is to allow you to extend the effective range of > your Electric Vehicle, not allow you to travel great distances > on that 10 cent charge. TC> On the other hand a "quick charge" is designed to refill your > batteries when they are nearly empty, so on a trip from one > town to another you will not run out of "fuel"... TC> Opportunity charging will probably not cost more than normal > rates, but quick charging will probably be reasonably related > to how gas stations charge for gasoline (market driven). TC> I doubt very much that it would cost $10-15 dollars for this > quick charge, but more likely $2-3 dollars for 15 Kilowatts of > power. This would give the station owner a healthy profit > margin of almost twice the going rate for that power. Or even better yet if the station or grociery store puts up a photo-voltaic system on the roof to make his one electricy for his "customers" use! I for one am ready! :) eric * OLX 2.1 TD * Intelligence is limited only by the openess of the mind. --- GOMail v1.2 [92-0673] * Origin: The Desert Reef >(;} * Tucson Az * V32B * 602 624 6386 (1:300/507) @PATH: 300/507 53 15 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (255) Sun 31 Jul 94 15:15 By: ERIC GRAY To: DEAN KUUSELA Re: Electrical Generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:2882 F4FF79E0 DK> Hello all! DK> I need to pick up a 5000 watt electrical generator for a cabin up in the > boonies. For a new generator, does anyone know how much gasoline is used p > hour at full load? Also, any recommendations as to brands? Buy a diesel generator! Much safer, much more fuel efficient. Also you can then buy fuel w/o the hhighway tax added on. eric * OLX 2.1 TD * To a little fish, the waters are always deep. --- GOMail v1.2 [92-0673] * Origin: The Desert Reef >(;} * Tucson Az * V32B * 602 624 6386 (1:300/507) @PATH: 300/507 53 15 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (256) Sun 24 Jul 94 16:41 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: Mazda Water Engine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003ce9e @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) @Subject: Re: Mazda Water Engine? @Message-Id: Date: 24 Jul 94 16:41:23 GMT Don Kulha (dkulha@crl.com) wrote: : On 21 Jul 1994, Harry H Conover wrote: : > I assume that you are joking about this. : > : > If you're actually serious, please call me the next time that : > you're in Boston. I have a bridge that I can let you have real : > cheap! : Harry, Although it may sound incredible to you. Mazda actually has : such a beast....However it is actually a Hydrogen powered car using : hydrogen made from water. I've seen pics of it. Now, this isn't exactly : water powered but related to such..... : DCK Don, "water powered engine" technodrivel is a prime example of what makes the alternative energy movement seem like a bunch of flakes. You contibute to that when you don't make a clear distinction between the absurd claim and the facts. A good share of the people reading this newsgroup don't have the background to be able understand that a hydrogen (from water) burning engine and a water powered engine are absolutely not the same thing. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com --- * Origin: Usenet:NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-470 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (257) Wed 27 Jul 94 18:13 By: Jim Richardson To: Victor Lance Vescovo Re: Re: Flywheel Ev Prototype ---------------------------------------------------------------------- VLV> From: vescovo@netcom.com (Victor Lance Vescovo) VLV> Date: 15 Jul 94 04:09:22 GMT VLV> Ivo Roper (ivo@remarque.berkeley.edu) wrote: VLV> : Howdy all, VLV> : AFS expects their prototype vehicle (flywheel powered) will have VLV> : a range of 370 miles on a 15 minute charge of household current VLV> : and zip from zero to 60mph in 6.8 seconds. They expect it to be VLV> : completed sometime next year. The article goes on to mention a VLV> : few technical details which I'll post if people are interested. VLV> Curious, how in the world do they get by the gyroscope problem created VLV> by VLV> flywheel-driven vehicles? From what I've heard, flywheel-cars make VLV> turning corners or going uphill quite difficult. . . Two solutions, 1, use two contra-rotating flywheels, one located within the other, the precession can be balanced out in this manner. Or 2) couple the flywheel inductively, with electromagnets, and allow the flywheel to precess all it wants on magnetic bearings. Both solutions are workable, both are used in other applications. Jim Ricardson Patriot, pagan and proud of it. --- FMail/386 0.98a * Origin: -->point MUDGE bbs * V32b * Shelton, WA USA<-- (1:352/111) @PATH: 352/111 3 138/1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (258) Sun 24 Jul 94 17:36 By: Paul Leventhal To: All Re: Nuclear Power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003d01e @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: nci@access2.digex.net (Paul Leventhal) @Subject: Nuclear Power @Message-Id: <30u8qa$9ul@news1.digex.net> Date: 24 Jul 94 17:36:10 GMT In this ongoing controversy about whether nuclear power should be discussed here, one very basic and simple point is being ignored: Whether nuclear energy is clean or preferable or not, it is *not* renewable. It's based on uranium, a finite resource. Even if we reprocess spent nuclear fuel to recover plutonium and use that in breeder reactors (giving every nation that does so quick access to nuclear weapons in the process), uranium is still a finite resource. So if it's not renewable, why discuss it in alt.energy.renewable? Steven Dolley --- * Origin: Usenet:Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, M (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (259) Sun 24 Jul 94 18:12 By: Cyber City To: All Re: Re: electric scooters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003d082 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: cyber1@io.org (Cyber City) @Subject: Re: electric scooters @Message-Id: <30uav4$i1q@ionews.io.org> Date: 24 Jul 94 18:12:52 GMT Nick Lindert wrote: > >I once heard of someone having an electric scooter. Does anyone have details >on one of these? Who sells them? Cost? etc. Try this company: Ortho Kinetic, Inc. P.O. Box 1647 Waukesha, Wisconsin 53187 (800) 824-1068 Fax: (414) 542-4258 Their scooters are sold mostly for disabled people, and cost is probably over $2000. Range is ~20 miles. I have no connection to the company. --- * Origin: Usenet:Internex Online, Toronto, Ontario, Canada (416 363 (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (260) Sat 23 Jul 94 3:16 By: Chris Cieszewski To: All Re: Re: Mazda Water Engine? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003d198 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ccieszew@nofc.forestry.ca (Chris Cieszewski) @Subject: Re: Mazda Water Engine? @Message-Id: <30q228$ffa@pan.nofc.forestry.ca> Date: 23 Jul 94 03:16:24 GMT @Reply-To: ccieszew@nofc.forestry.ca In article ied@sundog.tiac.net, conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes: > Marc Visconte (Marc.Visconte@f25.n275.z1.fidonet.org) wrote: > : BP"PC>What ever happened to Mazda's water powered motor? > : intend on selling it). If someone ELSE copied it from YOU... > : (remember the old Breck shampoo commercial? "And SHE told two people, > : and they EACH told two people...") > I assume that you are joking about this. > > If you're actually serious, please call me the next time that > you're in Boston. I have a bridge that I can let you have real > cheap! You don't believe in cars running on water?! How about the Russian water fuelled car??? They've been manufacturing it for years! It's huge and it containes political prizoners in the engine compartment. When you listen to the engine you can hear: get me some water, get me some water,... --- * Origin: Usenet:Northern Forestry Centre, Northwest Region, Canadi (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (261) Sat 23 Jul 94 3:20 By: Chris Cieszewski To: All Re: Re: swimming pool heater ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003d199 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ccieszew@nofc.forestry.ca (Chris Cieszewski) @Subject: Re: swimming pool heater @Message-Id: <30q29j$ffa@pan.nofc.forestry.ca> Date: 23 Jul 94 03:20:19 GMT @Reply-To: ccieszew@nofc.forestry.ca > On (11 Jul 94) Jody Gorran wrote to All... > > JG> If anyone out there in cyberspace is interested in a true > JG> application of renewable energy technology, ie. solar > JG> swimming pool heating, I'd be happy to make arrangements to > JG> send you a free booklet on this subject. I am and I cannot find the original posting... Chris. --- * Origin: Usenet:Northern Forestry Centre, Northwest Region, Canadi (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (262) Sat 30 Jul 94 11:40 By: Don Kulha To: Ron Perepolkin Re: Wasted power...& Miracles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e3a8266 @REPLY: 1:353/460.0 2e37db64 RP> I have been lurking here for a month or so and had no intention of RP> posting until I read a post forwarded by Don Kulha regarding solar RP> electricity in Sri Lanka. It hit a nerve so to speak when I read the RP> following passage. RP> "The neighbors commented on how the usual RP> dark surroundings had been lit by Piyasena's home. They also pondered RP> with awe, how the sun had given them electricity. RP> From that evening, Piyasena could operate a few fluorescent lamps" RP> Why did this hit a nerve?.... Why are people so obsessed with RP> lighting up the night sky and invading neighbors homes with their RP> *light pollution*??? Some are, these folks definatly aren't... This article I posted from Home Power magazine is about bringing electricity to rural area of Sri Lanka that has never had electricity. They aren't using the power from their smallish solar panel to purposely light the area around their thatched hut, it refers to the light that escapes the building in very stark contrast to the darkness that has been the norm for centuries. If yours is the only electric light for miles around even a 15 watt small flourescent will stick out like a 1000w metal halide does in a rural american community. This was about enabling a people to expand their lives and the possibilities of their future with the application of a little light. Now people can read, work on crafts, sew, etc. when before they were slaves to the setting sun. Their lives can be fuller in a lot of respects than it could before. DCK --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (263) Fri 29 Jul 94 3:49 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Re: off-the-grid-compute ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e38b46c - That's why I offered to supply a few of these extraordinarily EH> cheap! I'll NEVER use all the monitors I got at the auction, and EH> they're exceptionally well built and rugged. [snip] EH> I've got 'em. Just send netmail! EH> ^..^ I'll keep you in mind if I ever get enough $$ to replace this computer. You're not ENTHUSIASTIC about them are you? :-)) Jeff ... Fish to Live, Live to Fish ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (264) Fri 29 Jul 94 3:51 By: Jeffrey Vandyke To: Tony Weeks Re: off-the-grid-computers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e38b4e6 - Do you know of a supplier for 12VDC PC power supplies? I was TW> thinkin about getting a UPS and charging the battery from a TW> wind generator. Yes, but it will most likely be quite a while before I can find the little ad I tore out... Jeff ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (265) Sun 31 Jul 94 0:00 By: Zachariah Czeck To: all Re: FREE power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e3b21c0 hay ya'll, Sunday 31-Jul-94 15:02:53 been noticing that some people(tho no one in this echo;'>) are advocating that electricVehicles would actually be more polluting than the messes of internalCombustion engines we have now. . ^ ;'> . .this is a bunch of completely and uterly foolishly inane NONSENSE!!! in fact that STUPID concept doesn't even deserve much disscussion, but let me tell you what i think anyway;'> even considering that ePower plants continue to mostly use EVIL sources like coal, oil, nuclear(fission), and hydra(when *conventional* dammed hydraElectric dies it will go to Purgatory. . uhh no pun intended;) anyway, even IF we do stay evil and not use clean sources like solar, hydrogen, atomic(fussion), wind, squirrel, geoThermall, ETC. There is noWay that having millions(billions?) of IC's *all over the place* smoking in you face and down squirrel holes, chokeing birds out of trees, and dripping oil *everywhere* would be better than having all that polution efficiently concentrated at a few large plants which can be regulated, and tuned, and kept clean much more (efficient)effectively But forget about all that there are much better ways of powering transportation than on the eclectric power grid. EV's would be much more cost effective and less poluting if charged via solar, both on the car and on a more powerful setup at home; and how about partial charging via alternator (recycle! :). Tho i think the best way to go is hydrogen IC, you can generate enough current (i think,) to split water with only the internal alternator(not to even mention solar). this can be done in internaly(realtime? :) on the road. Can you say: "my car is out of gas, can i use your hose?". I can see the Evian stickers now, "Powered by the Swiss Alps". A recolection system is not to unfeasable either. Can you say: "infinite fuel supply" !!! oh did i mention that probably the best way to run any IC (or even indirect IC like steam) is with the bladeless turbine, an invention of Nicoli Tesla (a fellow Slav too i might add:). the bladeless turbine operates on friction with a moving fluid instead of impact; traditional turbines (say at Hoover dam) work by the fluid (water) hitting the blades head on and by the force of impact turns the turbine. in Tesla's bladeless turbine the fluid runs *more* parallel to the "turbine" and pulls it along via the friction betwixt the device and the fluid. btw gas(air) IS a fliud. nother thing, the bladless turbine motor needs one moving part! on the subj of turbins and tubers: the bladeless turbinE would likely be more efficient in hydra and wind electric; dig this instead of damning the river (pun intended), a series of BT's, each running in to the next, and set near the top of the water level and screened off(to prevent the enterence of creatures), with the river continuing to flow over, under, and around the setup Or on a smaller scale water flows into the turbine gravity feed style (ie. funneled into smaller and smaller pipes, greatly increasing the pressure). this can work for wind power too (funneling it down) but obviously wouldn't be feasible on a small scale. Tho all space that mass wind power plants take up i wonder if it wouldn't be feasible to use BT's, (again maybe even in series, so one flows into an other smaller. .) i hav been working on all of these things tho mostly in me head at this point i think i'll be working on some practical results soon. btw all of the GOOD power sources i mentioned above can be used in large scale power plants, yes especially squirrels. and think about this any plants that operate by burning things could easily be converted to hydrogen w/out much new equipment, just (get this) solar panels for electrolizing water and the equipment and plumbing to actualy do the electrolisys and get the H to the place where it is burned. of course, i'm no expert ;'> zachariahCzeck@willits;'> jason organist jorganist@nermal.santarosa.edu * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] * --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (266) Mon 1 Aug 94 0:53 By: Zachariah Czeck To: all Re: *Where?* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/7.0 2e3c7fac Monday 01-Aug-94 00:21:40 willits,california,usa,earth,solsystem,westernarm,milkyway,primeplane ... hey hey hey h-h-hey hey hey hey hey heeeyy h-h-heyheyheyh-gitchYer handsoffa maee-hey hey h-h-heyh-heyhey well i dont knowww. . . er. . um . .wrong brainSector... ..hey hey h#@&#!%& DAMN...sorry... hey guys, ya know what would be real cool. if everyone put their location somwhere in their message maybe a header or part of a tagline or somfin It's really cool to know where people are comming from + it really sucks to read posts that go like this: "Yeah, well way out here we don't even have [insert appropriate commodity] and we have to drive 587,642 miles just to get to a place where you can even look at a picture of it." . which always leaves scratching my head and saying that, yeah, i can see that sort of problem arising way out on Mars! cool to know the real date too zachariahCzeck willits jorganist@nermal.santarosa.edu * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] * --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Sonoma Online, HOMEPOWR Echo (707)545-0746-HST\V32b (1:125/7) @PATH: 125/7 203/530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (267) Mon 25 Jul 94 2:08 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0003d786 @PID GIGO unreg at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Electric Cars legislation/politics @Message-Id: Date: 25 Jul 94 02:08:04 GMT In article , Don Kulha wrote: > > >On Thu, 21 Jul 1994, DaveHatunen wrote: > >> A lot of people think hydro is a renewable power source. It's not. All >> dams are destined to silt up eventually, and become useless for power >> generation and flood control. There are no economically feasible ways >> to clear out the silt. > > Lest someone actually believe Dave's statement about Hydro being a >non-renewable resource please keep in mind that he's speaking of large >scale hydro. Such may be the case (though the engineer I just spoke to >thought not but will check on this and get back to me) for the big stuff >but small hydro doesn't have this problem (if it did an afternoon with a >shovel ought to fix things in most cases). Hydro is one of the best >sources of energy in the renewables field. I agree that almost any backyard power system can be made feasible by someone who doesn't have to meet any economic goals, such as rasonable power costs at a reasonable profit, and is willing to invest a lot of free labor. And I wasn't addressing this narrow case. It has other problems, such as drought. And, depending on the size of the backyard dam, that could be an awful lot of shoveling. And of course, a lot depends on just how much storage the installation needs, i.e., big damv vs little dam. So yes, I was speaking of larger scales. And I got the impression the person I responded to was also. >> The time frame for silting varies from dam to dam, of course, but some >> very important dams are figured to be silted up within a century or so. >> Once this happens at Boulder Dam, for instance, there will be >> downstream catastrophe as the devestating lower Colorado River floods >> of yesteryear return. And a major source of power will be lost. > > I'm skeptical about our inability to do anything about silting Dave. >We dredge habors, make canals etc. and can't deal with some silt? I hope >to get feedback next week from the people at Hetch hetchy and Hoover so >I'll let you know one way or another what I find out. There are already major envorinmental problems due to harbor dredging. The dredging here of the Oakland Estuary for deep-draft ships caused a major flap, because it was going to be dumped at sea where local fisherman say there are major fisheries. It's not "some silt". Check the capacity of, say, Lake Mead, and try to invent an acceptable way to get the silt out if it filled up. Sure, you could build a major railroad to carry train loads of silt to the Sea oc Cortez. But that would be a heavy financial burden. Canal construction usually relies on finding some local use for the dirt. In any case, it's not comparable to a silted up dam. I suspect the problem at Hetch-hetchy isn't the same as at Lake Mead, since Hetch-Hetchy gets its water from a relatively silt-free mountain stream. But the Colorado river has always carried a lot of silt. -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: Usenet:As little as you're likely to find anywhere (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (268) Sun 4 Dec 94 17:27 By: Lawrence London To: ALL Re: test message St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 a9117121 @PID: FM 2.02 test message Lawrence London 1:3641/1.502 --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (269) Mon 21 Nov 94 23:07 By: Mark. Gooley To: All Re: Re: Waterflow power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006a9c1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: gooley@netcom.com (Mark. Gooley) @Subject: Re: Waterflow power @Message-Id: Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 23:07:39 GMT In article Jim.Thisdale@f2661.n320.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Thisdale) writes: > >as for the idea of using the incomming water pressure from the public water >department its not practical, the cost of the water you use would be to high >for the power gen'd. However, if you run the water department something similar may be practical in rare cases. Boulder, Colorado gets much of its water by aqueduct from Arapahoe Glacier. It flows by gravity to a treatment plant, and by gravity from there into town -- past a turbine. I think that the drop from plant to town is a good fraction of 1000 feet. Of course, the drop from glacier to plant is even greater, but I don't think that any of that power is harnessed. Mark. gooley@netcom.com --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Dostoye (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (270) Mon 21 Nov 94 23:19 By: E. Michael Smith To: All Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006a9c7 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ems@cygnus.com (E. Michael Smith) @Subject: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? @Message-Id: @Sender: news@cygnus.com Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 23:19:45 GMT In article <3841720286.1622113@af36.Intermedia.co.uk> Gilgongo@Intermedia.co.uk writes: >I've recently come across this recipe for alternative diesel fuel, and wonder >if anyone can give me some more info about it. > >Ingredients: Vegetable oil (can be used oil, if filtered) > Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) > Methanol Yes, this is right and it works. I did it with Soybean oil. >1. Mix oil with 15% methanol and 0.5% lye. Heat on a stove and stir >constantly, without letting the mixture boil, for 40 mins. I used 19% methanol and 1% lye (dry) by weight. I also did not use any heat (72 F room temp) and let it sit about 1 hour after stirring. Worked OK. >2. Let stand for 24 hours to allow the resultant glycerine to settle. You don't want to do this. The sample that I let sit over night formed soap with the lye. That made separation more difficult. The stuff with stratify into layers in an hour or two. Drain it off the lye as soon as you can. >3. Strain out glycerine and mix with water. Heat again. I didn't do any water mix. Water is Bad Stuff in diesel fuel, and I see no reason to do this. I DID let it stand for a day or two open to the air so that any left over NaOH would turn to sodium carbonate. >4. Remove all water. Allow to cool. A pain... which is why I think the water step is bogus. If it is just to remove the residual lye traces, I'd be inclined to just store the stuff for a day or so in a jar with some aluminum foil ... (Though I'm sure there would be better ways). >pH should be neutral or very slightly acidic. Use as standard diesel fuel. >I'd like to try this, but the above method is a bit sketchy. In particular, >how much water is needed in step 3? In step 4, what exactly does "remove all I used NO water. This looks to me like a crude attempt to get the residual NaOH out of the ester. I used crystals of NaOH ('Red Devil Lye' from the grocery store... drain cleaner...) and they all sat on the bottom. >water" mean? Do you need to boil it off? Remove all water means that you don't want any rust on your injection pump or injectors where tolerances are on the order of 1/10000 inch. Wet Acid solutions will cause you grief. Stronly alkaline ones will etch your aluminum parts (if any). You DO want a near neutral pH... But lots of stuff could be titrated to get neutral. (Heck, I'd expect that ammonia fumes and vinigar fumes would be an easy way to go..) If I was going to be making lots of this stuff, I'd pass it through/over a buffering agent. (Or maybe just let it stand with aluminum foil in it for a while ;-) >The separation of the glycerine sounds a bit tricky. Trivial, actually. Like skimming grease off of water in a roaster... I just poured the top layer off the bottom in a large Pyrex measuring cup. (1 quart sized, from grocery store...). A 'Turkey Baster' can get any drips that this doesn't get. ('Kitchen Science' at its finest!). >You'd probably need a >container with a tap near the bottom to draw it off (and some way of making >sure you'd got it all without taking off anything you didn't want as well). If you make small batches, just use a clear pyrex measuring cup. For large batches, visit your local wine/beer making store and take a look at the gear they have. This is a common issue in getting good wine off of the lees... >I also assume you can get NaOH and methanol at a chemist or somewhere >without much hassle. Yes, but expensive. Find the local 'Hot Rod Race Shop' and ask where to buy fuel for an 'alcohol fueler'. Much cheaper source of methanol. The NaOH can be had in the cleaning department of many grocery stores. Often right next to the "Drano" (which you ought NOT to use, since it has metal filings and other crud in it...) you will find "Red Devil Lye". Makes nice soap, too. >Most importantly, though, does anyone know if it works? It does. I've done it. It's been done in Europe commercially and in New Zealand on a laboratory scale. Bruce Hamilton in sci.energy has pointers to the literature and is damn good on the chemistry side. >It's a bit difficult >to test unless you have an expendable diesel engine lying around... Well, I put it in my Mercedes and I wouldn't consider IT to be expendable. I DID try it in an oil lamp first, though. (Works nicely). And I did start off with a high dilution (90% #2 diesel, 10% ester) and worked up to about 60% #2, 40% ester (at which time I ran out and got a cold and havn't gotten back to make another bigger batch yet...) >Also, >what sort of by-products does this stuff produce? It may be veggie, but that >doesn't automatically mean it's green when combusted. My experience with the Soybean ester was that in the dilutions I used it was not significantly different from normal #2 Diesel. I can also tell you that running straight Soybean (NOT the methylester) smells strongly of burned french fries and at idle (in an old Nissan Turbo Diesel engine) makes an acrid white smoke due to poor combustion. This smoke went away at any engine speed above dead slow. So for plain plant oils you have to keep the percentage under about 50% (i.e. 60% #2, 40% plant oil) or it smells. The esters, though, seemed much more 'environmentally friendly'. BTW, the trick of using serial dilutions of #2 to test a new fuel has worked very well for me with everything from gasoline to used motor oil. Just run your tank to near empty before you start and have a 5 gallon can of #2 aboard. Add the 'funny fuel' a gallon at a time and drive about 20 miles on each test (to get it mixed and to the injectors). Then add the next gallon. If it ever gets too rattly or too smelly, dump in the 5 gallons of #2 and stop the tests until you've run a tank or two of #2 through the car to clean out the tank. I've calibrated my guage (by running all the way dry and putting 2 gallons in the tank), so I can be pretty sure what mix I've got for a couple of dilutions (I've also got good mpg numbers...). Also btw: Used motor oil works OK but runs like cold diesel (smoke and harder starting like in very cold weather) and ought to be kept to about 20% or less. Kerosene works very very well, but should be kept to 50% or less since it doesn't lube well. Kerosene mixed 50/50 with motor oil runs just about like straight #2. I often used kerosene to thin a thick mixture. (The 'thickest' was the Butter Flavored Crisco that was cut 1/3 1/3 1/3 Crisco/#2/Kerosene ... ). ATF works really really well (even used ATF). Gasoline should be kept to under 25% and should be the worst octane you can find (cheap rot gut gasoline). Engines are idiosyncratic in how sensitive they are to funny fuels. My Scout did OK on up to 40% Regular Gasoline, but the Benz gets rattly and unhappy at 25%. The Scout drank used motor oil like it was cold #2, even at 60%. The Benz is a bit smokey at even just 30%. etc. ALL of them love Kerosene, though. (The Benz owners manual recommends up to 50% Kerosene at below freezing temps). The basic conclusion I came to was that you could run just about anything oil derived if you got the viscosity close to #2 Diesel, if it was clean, and if had a good enough cetane rating (which could often be fixed by adding Kerosene). Have fun! -- E. Michael Smith Manager of Stuff Cygnus Support --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Cygnus (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (271) Wed 30 Nov 94 9:56 By: M Barnard To: All Re: Re: Help-Electric bills killing us! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006a9dc @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: barnard@grin.io.org (M Barnard) @Subject: Re: Help-Electric bills killing us! Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 09:56:11 @Message-Id: In article <3bfhu7$v90@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> RMJOHNS@opie.raleigh.ibm.com (Rob Johnston) writes: >>>There's an interesting thought. Does anyone know what would happen if I >>>filtered the dryer output and routed it into the air intake just across from >>>the dryer? I realize the humidity would rise in the house, but that's not >>>entirely undesirable, since the heat pump is a very dry heat source anyway. >>>Would I end up with very damp air ducts that would grow copious amounts of >>>mold, to which I am allergic >I tried something like this within the last month or so. I built a large >box and used a 10"x20" air filter from a heatpump intake. The air from the >dryer was thus filtered but basically vented right into the laundry >room. After a load or two, every door in the room was dripping, you Back at home, my dad had something like this rigged up every winter. We lived in North Bay, which is extremely dry in the winter, and the dryer vent was directed into the large rec room, which was directly under the bedrooms and bathroom on the ground floor. Vents were cut through the floor into the rooms to allow heat to rise more readily. In addition, a wood stove (not a great one, I've since found out) was used for additional heat. Even with filtering we did have a problem with lint build-up, and would have to dust/vacuum regularly, but we never had a problem with moisture that I can remember. M barnard@grin.io.org-------------------------------------------------- --------- Stonehenge is the interrupted dance of obelisks/moving too slowly for the eyes of man to register/like the growth of mountains/like the death of stars --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Interne (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (272) Thu 1 Dec 94 4:22 By: Lawrence F. London, Jr. To: All Re: Re: Solar Panel Water Heating ? (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006a9e0 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence F. London, Jr.) @Subject: Re: Solar Panel Water Heating ? (fwd) Date: 1 Dec 1994 04:22:04 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 10:51:54 -0500 >From: DBHolmes@aol.com To: london@sunsite.unc.edu, 3bfc64$5ud@horus.mch.sni.de, snow@sv5.mch.sni.de Cc: ases@igc.apc.org Subject: Re: Solar Panel Water Heating ? (fwd) Oliver Snow, You asked about solar heating of swimming pools. I would suggest you contact the American Solar Energy Society, Mr. Larry Sherwood, Exec. Director, at e-mail address: ases@igc.apc.org They have a booklet which might help your architect; it is called: "How To Design and Build A Solar Swimming Pool Heater" edited by Francis de Winter published by the Copper Development Association, 1975 47 pages. $5.00 Larry Sherwood may be able to suggest other information sources for you, as well. DBHolmes --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (273) Thu 1 Dec 94 4:28 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006a9e7 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) @Subject: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? @Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 04:28:31 GMT Gilgongo (Gilgongo@Intermedia.co.uk) wrote: : >can you use furnace oil straight in a diesal engine? (heating oil is : >a lot cheaper here due to tax reasons). : I'd be very surprised if you could, as diesel is a different "fraction" from : fuel oil, having different viscosity and combustion characteristics. : BTW, who was the "other poster" in this thread that you referred to? I can't : seem to find them. : DF 2 and #2 heating oil are the same "fraction" as I recall, and have the same general physical properties, including allowable sulpher of 0.5%. Heating oil specs are looser in other areas. Fuel injectors in high speed diesels are rather precise devices, use non-standard fuels at your own risk. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]NETCOM (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (274) Thu 1 Dec 94 2:34 By: Doug Teed To: All Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006a9eb @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: teeddoug@nbnet.nb.ca (Doug Teed) @Subject: temp fluctuation in solarium Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 02:34:56 AST @Message-Id: <941201023456.985915@news.nbnet.nb.ca> I have a 10 x 10 solarium with 30 deg. sloping glass on top. It can be isolated from the house by sliding patio door. Problem: extreme temp fluctu- ations in summer & winter. Exhaust fan hooked to thermostat pumps warm air into basement, which provides some thermal storage. How can I make the solarium more liveable for me and my plants? Would a dark tile floor absorb enough heat to keep the sol. warm at night during winter? Typical nighttime temps between Nov.-Mar. are around -10 to -25 degrees Celcius. Could I cover the dark tiles with a white throw rug in summer to reflect solar energy? I am also considering installing some type of shade or blind for the glass roof which may help shade and insulate. I'd appreciate any suggestions or sources for information. Thanks. Doug Teed --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]NB*Net (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (275) Thu 1 Dec 94 5:03 By: Tom Gray To: All Re: Renew/Eff Financing [long] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aa22 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tom Gray @Subject: Renew/Eff Financing [long] @Message-Id: Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 05:03:54 -0800 (PST) /* Written 5:31 PM Nov 13, 1994 by larris in igc:climate.news */ An Equity Fund For Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency -- Ken Newcombe, Global Environment Coordination Division, Environment Department, The World Bank, and Michael Rubino, Environment Department, International Finance Corporation Controlling global emissions of greenhouse gases is going to be expensive. Unfortunately, there is not going to be enough additional new money from official sources to fund all the worthwhile emission-reduction projects. One solution to this problem would be to channel private capital towards such projects via an international equity investment fund. The International Finance Corporation (IFC), which is the World Bank Group's private sector investment affiliate, may soon undertake a study to assess the feasibility of a private equity or venture capital fund that would invest in renewable energy and energy efficiency projects in developing countries. This fund would invest in wind, solar, geothermal, small hydropower, biomass, and ocean-thermal energy projects. It would also consider projects that conserve energy supplies or use, as well as other energy projects that make financial, environmental, and technical sense when compared to more conventional alternatives. The chosen projects would either promote new technologies or help existing proven technologies to penetrate new markets. Some projects may involve transactions that are too small to be attractive to existing sources of investment. These projects would lead to lower greenhouse gas emissions than would alternative projects, the fund's investments would support the objectives of the Framework Convention on Climate Change. Goals and benefits A number of trends bode well for a more "level playing field" that will enable energy conservation and renewables to compete with traditional energy sources on the basis of fair technological, financial, economic, and environmental comparisons. To start with, the Climate Change Convention and the related national response plans should encourage energy planners and other decision-makers to place a greater reliance on renewables and efficiency. Other international agreements and country- and local-level issues should also make climate change and related environmental concerns more prominent. Meanwhile, regulatory reform in the energy sector is progressing. More and more countries are adopting laws and regulations to eliminate subsidiaries and encourage integrated resource planning and privatisation. These measures will attract more private sector investment to efficient energy products. As a result, a growing number of renewable energy and energy efficiency projects are already being implemented in developing countries. Many more are seeking financing. There appears now to be a real opportunity for a private equity fund to catalyse investment in renewable energy and energy efficiency projects by providing leadership and helping to mobilise capital (including project development funds) that could be combined with funds from other investors. The fund's role would be to: * Bring together the growing network of intermediaries in the private, NGO, and government sectors in order to lower transaction costs and accelerate "win-win" private sector investment in energy efficiency projects; * Combine resources from both the public and private sectors in order to accelerate the adoption of sustainable energy production and use; and * Invest in developing country projects that benefit the international community by cost-effectively reducing GHG emissions. Selecting projects The fund would blend private sector capital seeking competitive returns with concessional funds from foundations and donors. The presence of concessional funds or grants would ensure that private investors could expect a rate of return that is comparable to other international equity funds. The concessional investors would be willing to earn a below-market rate of return because they are motivated by other concerns. For example, OECD countries might consider an investment in such a fund to be GHG insurance. Or the GEF Council might support the fund's objective of attracting private capital by, say, funding the costs of certifying and verifying that GHG mitigation has indeed occurred. The fund managers would choose projects in developing countries that met the following investment criteria: * Cost-effective reduction of GHG emissions compared with the alternative investment if the fund's resources were not applied; * Use of commercially proven technologies for renewable energy or energy conservation that result in low or no GHG emissions; * Satisfaction of project appraisal and the normal due diligence evaluation required by equity capital investors, including such indicators as the project sponsor's financial resources and experience in managing the particular business, plus a market assessment and profitability analysis and other assurances regarding the project's legal, policy, and remuneration aspects; and * Consistency of host government strategies for environmentally sustainable development and/or environmental action plans, and acceptable physical and social environmental impact standards. The fund's managers would have to measure the cost-effectiveness and success of the project in reducing GHG emissions. They would do this by identifying and applying universally acceptable scientific standards and analytical methods for estimating and monitoring carbon-equivalent emission reductions to each investment. They would then certify for fund shareholders the emissions reduction achieved and the unit costs of abatement, and verify and update the certification of emissions reduction for the investment portfolio in the fund's annual reports. The link to global initiatives While the proposed fund would make investments that support the objectives of the Global Environment Facility (GEF) and the Climate Change Convention, it would have no formal legal association of any kind with either of them. It would not generate or purport to sanction any carbon-offset that could be registered under the Convention or which would somehow be interpreted by governments as a contribution under a joint implementation (JI) programme or any other negotiated obligations entered into under the Convention. Nor would it require any resolution or action of any kind by either the Parties to the Convention or the GEF Council in order to operate. The proposed fund could, however, make some indirect contributions to the Convention's implementation. In lieu of a Convention-agreed incentive structure arising from limits on global atmospheric carbon emissions, the fund could act as a catalyst to mobilise private sector resources and public sector concessional financing. In this way it could demonstrate the value of private sector investment in low or zero emissions technologies. The fund could also provide the Conference of the Parties -- without prejudice to its ongoing deliberations and eventual decisions -- a valuable demonstration of the process for analysing, certifying, and verifying projects with a commercial component. This would be useful should the Parties eventually agree on JI arrangements or on emissions reduction targets that would generate an international trade in carbon offsets. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This information excerpted from EcoNet, a nonprofit online system * * specializing in environmental issues. For further information on * * EcoNet membership, send any message to . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (276) Wed 23 Nov 94 10:03 By: Anton Simmons To: All Re: Re: MILK JUG SALVAGE / UNSUBSCRIBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aaaf @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: A.D.Simmons@lut.ac.uk (Anton Simmons) @Subject: Re: MILK JUG SALVAGE / UNSUBSCRIBE Date: 23 Nov 1994 10:03:00 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <2ED30D3A.EF25.0001@lut.ac.uk> @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; Charset=US-ASCII Not only is MILK JUG SALVAGE off the subject - renewable energy (or Home Power if you insist), but what the HELL has Uranium, and its many isotopes and antisocial/antihumanity possibilities, got to do with renewable energy and a sustainable future for the occupants of this planet ? 90% of the contents of this list is utter drivel from people who have obviously got a lot of spare time to 'surf the net' in search of anyone willing to exchange inane views on the utmost trivia. Apologies to the 10% of you who have something important/interesting to communicate, I just don't have the time to wade through the dross to find the nuggets. I've tried to unsubscribe twice, but still the postings keep pouring in. Don Kulha/Larry London or whoever set this thing up - either tighten it up or remove my subscription - yes UNSUBSCRIBE - P L E A S E !!!! Regards Anton Simmons --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (277) Thu 1 Dec 94 19:10 By: Tom Gray To: All Re: Periodic Info Posting: Wind Energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aaef @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tom Gray @Subject: Periodic Info Posting: Wind Energy @Message-Id: Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 19:10:50 -0800 (PST) WIND ENERGY INFORMATION FROM THE AMERICAN WIND ENERGY ASSOCIATION (AWEA) The American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) represents wind energy as a technology that is economically and technically viable today and that will play a major role in providing clean energy for growing electricity needs throughout the world. As part of its mission, AWEA now offers as a public service the following electronic information files on energy technologies and issues at no cost: ENERGY POLICY - OIL ROLLERCOASTER: This is a classic report on the U.S. energy outlook written in 1987 by Denis Hayes (later chairman of Earth Day, former director of the Solar Energy Research Institute), Chris Flavin (now Vice President for Research of Worldwatch Institute) and Jim MacKenzie (now a Senior Associate at the World Resources Institute). Among many telling comments, this report predicts an increasing likeli- hood of wars in the Mideast because of the increasing concentration of world oil supplies in that region. Published originally by the Fund for Renewable Energy and the Environment, now Renew America. Length ~70k. Send e-mail to . CLIMATE CHANGE - LASHOF RESPONSE TO SKEPTICS: Daniel Lashof, a scientist with the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), reviews many of the claims of climate change skeptics and offers a fairly convincing rebuttal. This is an issue of the highest importance--make sure you are well informed. Length ~40k. Send e-mail to . SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT - CO-OP AMERICA: Would you like to learn more about how to put your dollars to work for a better society, from purchasing environmentally sound products to investing in banks and credit unions that specialize in economic development loans in low-income areas? This file contains an introductory letter on Co-op America, a national nonprofit grass-roots organization that advocates socially conscious investing and is on the cutting edge of sustainable development issues. Length ~12k. Send e-mail to . WIND ENERGY - FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS: This is a file of very basic information about wind energy technology, including its potential for energy supply, its cost, and its environmental impacts. Length ~25k. Send e-mail to . WIND ENERGY - INDUSTRY STATUS REPORT 1994: Wind energy is proving itself as a cost-effective, reliable energy resource at installations across the United States and around the world. Technological advancements over the last five years have placed wind energy in a firm position to compete head-to-head with conventional power generation technologies. This file provides a detailed look at the U.S. wind energy's current status. Length ~15k. Send e-mail to . WIND ENERGY - PUBLICATIONS CATALOG: The American Wind Energy Association offers a variety of publications on wind energy, including technical literature, audio/visual resources, information for the prospective residential wind turbine owner, and more. Among items of special interest: _Wind Power for Home & Business_ by Paul Gipe, a complete reference on small wind turbines; audio cassettes from AWEA's Wall Street forum on opportunities for finance and investment in wind; and _Wind Turbine Technology: Fundamental Concepts in Wind Engineering_. Length of catalog is ~28k. Send e-mail to . WIND ENERGY - REMOTE TELECOMMUNICATIONS: Text of "An Overview of Wind Power for Remote Site Telecommunications Facilities," a paper delivered by Michael L. S. Bergey of Bergey Windpower Co. at a conference in the United Kingdom in 1989. Excellent summary of considerations involved in this application of small wind turbine technology. Length ~23k. Send e-mail to . WIND ENERGY - WINDPOWER '95 CALL FOR PAPERS: The American Wind Energy Association has issued a call for papers for its annual national conference, Windpower '95, which will be held March 27-30 in Washington, D.C. Topics to be discussed will include: Domestic and International Project Experience; Technology Advancements; Siting and Resource Assessment; Business and Finance Issues; Economic Development; Utility and Regulatory Issues; Environmental and Public Acceptance Issues; National Policy on Renewables; and more. Length ~15k. Send e-mail to . --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- I also edit _Wind Energy Weekly_, the American Wind Energy Association's newsletter, and distribute excerpts from it in an "electronic edition." The electronic edition is usually around 10k in length and covers industry news, climate change, and other related items. To subscribe, send a message that includes o Your name and organizational affiliation (if any) o Your reason for interest to me . --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Tom Gray --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (278) Wed 23 Nov 94 13:44 By: McBeath To: All Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aaf6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: j321@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (McBeath) @Subject: Anybody know about veggie diesel? Date: 23 Nov 1994 13:44:07 GMT @Message-Id: <3avgv7$488@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> Not quite on topic with the title, another poster seemed to be quite knowledgeable, so i'll ask the question anyway. can you use furnace oil straight in a diesal engine? (heating oil is a lot cheaper here due to tax reasons). i've been told you can, but of course very few people are willing to commit an answer due to the legalities involved with taxes.... thanks rod (i don't even own a diesel, so this is a curiosity question) --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Univers (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (279) Fri 2 Dec 94 4:34 By: McBeath To: All Re: Re: Wood Heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ab04 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: j321@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (McBeath) @Subject: Re: Wood Heat Date: 2 Dec 1994 04:34:24 GMT @Message-Id: <3bm84g$5vc@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> Harry H Conover (conover@max.tiac.net) wrote: : McBeath (j321@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca) wrote: : : Also, consider that the "pollutants" which are released : : are products of natural growth cycles, and are going to be released into : : the atmosphere whether or not we burn the wood (ie. tree dies..... and rots) : : whereas, the power generated from fossil fuels or nuclear energy are not : : using a fuel which is rapidly (geologically) replenished, and the amount : : of increased pollutants to the environment from wood fuel is zilch. : This statement is patently untrue. There is absolutely no connection : between airborne toxic products released through combustion of wood and the : largly benign products produced by natural decay. This is like comparing : the result of using a fertilizer on your garden an inhaling the same : product! : : In a : : way, the use of wood fuel can actually be very good, as young trees (growing : : where the others were cut) take more carbon dioxide etc. out of the air than : : fully grown, sennesant trees. In addition, the remains of wood energy : : production (ash) is a very good fertilizer, and is natural. : I suggest you check on the ecological history of Western New York. Where : once endless maple forest once stood is now essentionally barren of : trees, largely due to the process you are now attempting to promote. What process did i attempt to promote? clearcutting (see other post) I answered fast and not as well as i could have. There is a lot of wood burnt at the side of the road in forestry areas in north america. Use this stuff, the waste from sawmills, the excess hog fuel from paper plants, etc. What do they do with the bark? hog fuel, or dump. This can be very environmentally unfriendly if the wood is in contact with water (don't laugh.... i've seen shavings and bark piles in swamps.... great for the old methyl mercury problem) : Why, because those original immense forests were girdled and burned, : poisoning the soil against subsequent regrowth for, perhaps, a thousand ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ : years. Deadly Nightshade is also natural, but that doesn't make it ^^^^^ Ok. what exactly poisened the soil, and where did the number 1000 come from? If burning the forests poisoned the soil against regrowth, there would be no trees in north america now. I am also unable to easily access information about the ecological history of Western New York.... if you could reference some specific authors and articles and journals, i will attempt to get them ordered in. I would imagine that what you are talking about is hydrophobia, the condition whereby the soil will attempt to repell water after it has been burned in a fire. This is not a major problem, most times.... (note the "most". As far as i know, it is not a problem, but i am not totally sure that it couldn't be a major problem sometimes....) : harmless. : : one question.... although the wood plant would release the pollution of : : 45000 cars, over what period would that be? how much pollution would : : occur if that same amount of energy were generated with fossel fuels? : : also, what about the net increase in CO2 with the use of fossil fuels? I still want to know about the net increase in CO2...... : Actually Rod, as bad as they are, fossil fuels generate much less toxic : pollution than does burning wood. I asked a couple of chemical engineers who do research for the wood science and technology centre in NB, and they disagree with you. They said that given modern equipment for both processes, they are about equal. One thing they said which literally shocked the hell out of me is say wood is better cause it has a much lower radiation problem. I want to check this out independently, but with exams coming, i may not have time for a while. Apparantly, though, a fossil fuel electric plant would not pass the tests for radiation given to a nuclear power plant...... (this is at the smokestack....) surprised the hell out of me.... . : Don't get me wrong on this. I have a fireplace, and I love sitting by : a warm wood fire. Still, I use it minimally (and with some guilt) since : I realize it to be a polluting, environmentally irresponsible luxury. : When it comes to rationalization of the use of wood fuel as beneficial, : I have to draw the line. : Harry C. don't feel guilty... get a modern, polution standard stove... and then enjoy the fire.... great conversation by the way. I am enjoying this..... (even if i think you are wrong.....) --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Univers (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (280) Thu 1 Dec 94 9:16 By: Ian Woofenden To: Jerry McBride Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 be51b5b5 @REPLY: 1:266/28.0 edb1def2 On (29 Nov 94) Jerry McBride wrote to Ian Woofenden... JM> Here's my two cents, also. JM> Electricity from lead-acid batterys is all a chemical JM> reaction. The colder the batterys get, the slower the JM> reaction is and... the less available power. I know you'll JM> think me a bit demented, but are his batterys just sitting JM> "outside" or in a heated/warm enclosure? It will make a JM> difference in his application as well as in electric JM> automobiles... Don't know about the original questioner. Mine are "outside" the building in their own insulated box. I really need to get some heat to them, or get ni-cads that don't mind the cold so much. I don't have the inside space now, and run a wood shop, so I'm concerned about keeping the batteries dust-free if I bring them in. But you're absolutely right, of course, that the cold has a very big effect on the efficiency of batteries. It's amazing (depressing) how much more I have to run the gen when it's cold. Ian ... I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (281) Thu 1 Dec 94 0:25 By: William Stroud To: John Draper Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:151/142.0 2edd5369 -=> Quoting John Draper to William Stroud <=- JD> I've often thought about JD> makeing a coil to resonate at 60 cycles. Now that one, would use JD> capacitors to resonate the coil. Imagine how long the wire would JD> be for a full wave 60 cycle coil! 3,100 miles to be exact within 3 significant digits. Why would you want such a coil? JD> Since you and I both live in Cary, JD> give me a call sometime, and I may be interested in helping you JD> build this thing. Wait until after Christmas, but I have saved your message and would definitely like to see those patents you were talking about. This coil could be an interesting Saturday project! JD> ! Origin: Justice For All BBS (FIDONET 1:151/135) What's the number for this BBS^^^^^ (assuming it's local to Cary). WRS --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: The Soapbox BBS - "Your Infotainment Specialist" (1:151/142) @PATH: 151/142 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (282) Thu 1 Dec 94 10:05 By: John Draper To: William Stroud Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:151/135 2ED7084E The telephone number for this BBS, which is great, is local to Cary, is 460-0523. I like it, 'cause I can sent FidoNet Mail to several friends around the country. The sysop doesn't charge, but I want to send him a donation, because he is doing a great job with this bbs, and he appears to be a real gentleman. In reference to the 60 cycle coil, there is so much 60 cycle noise around from all the 60 cycle AC powered devices, that there is bound to be a lot of energy that can be captured. If you have the time, take a pair of earphones like those used on portable radios, casette players, and conncet 1 wire of the ear phones to a metal water pipe or ground rod, and the other ear phone wire to a 50 foot antenna wire - You will hear a buzz. That buzz is stray 60 cycle current running around. I agree with you after Christmas. I just got moved into my new home, and we're trying to get unpacked, and also get ready for Christmas. If I got involved in a project at this time, my life would be in jeopardy. I've got some great patent copies. One of my MANY interests, is high milage carbeurtors, and other fuel delivery systems. I have over 200 copies of patents of such devices, dating back to 1908. I used to live in the Washington DC area, and I have a good friend who is a patent examiner. I used to go with him when he worked on some Saturdays, and he would let me go through the drawers of patents, and make copies. I have a patent myself, for a method of doubling the output power of photo- voltaic panels. The patent is for a method of wiring the solar panels to the battery cells. I've been unable to get anyone in the industry interested enough to even build up a 2 cell test circuit. Maybe one day..... ...later.. --- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1) * Origin: Justice For All BBS (FIDONET 1:151/135) @PATH: 151/135 103 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (283) Sat 3 Dec 94 9:18 By: Jim Bilderback To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 83bd534a EH> > Our normal "load" is a twelve volt muffin fan pointed right in my face > I've seen 12 volts at half an amp (into a resistive load) so I guess i > wanted to sweat a LOT you could make 10 watts. (I was working pretty > to make six.) > Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially more power .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (357) Sat 3 Dec 94 23:15 By: Stuart Morrison To: All Re: AE Mailing List ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac5b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Stuart Morrison @Subject: AE Mailing List @Message-Id: <5991.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 23:15:07 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am not getting any mail from ae. I tried to send a message to cvisser@ucrmath.ucr.edu as List Manager but it came back User unknown. Who is running AE? How do I get reconnected. ALSO Hydrogen and EV. Help -- Stuart Morrison stuart@stusys.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au Perth Western Australia. Why didn't I think of that? AE Mailing List --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (358) Sat 3 Dec 94 23:42 By: Robin van Spaandonk To: All Re: MHD generators? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac5c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Robin van Spaandonk @Subject: MHD generators? @Message-Id: <7263.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 23:42:28 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Does anyone know of any research done into the concept of using the wind as the motive force in an MHD generator, thus producing electricity with no moving parts? TIA Robin van Spaandonk MHD generators? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (359) Sun 4 Dec 94 3:18 By: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" To: All Re: Re: AE Mailing List ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac6c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" @Subject: Re: AE Mailing List @Message-Id: <17740.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 03:18:44 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Sun, 4 Dec 1994 04:35:11 WST, "Stuart Morrison" wrote: > I am not getting any mail from ae. You're *on* the list. I checked! > stuart@STUSYS.EEPO.DIALIX.OZ.AU Stuart Morrison > I tried to send a message to cvisser@ucrmath.ucr.edu as List Manager > but it came back User unknown. The address *was* broken for a while. It's fixed now. > Who is running AE? I am! > How do I get reconnected. > ALSO > Hydrogen and EV. I manage the EV list as well but not the Hydrogen list. The path to you may be broken somewhere. crv Re: AE Mailing List --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (360) Sun 4 Dec 94 3:31 By: Kerry Miller To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac6d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Kerry Miller @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <18248.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 03:31:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > I am concerned that they incorporated three (3) bathrooms in a four bedroom > home. I too haK e been wondering when the ecology of the indoors is going to take a stand: the place for plumbing is outadoors. Why go to all the trouble of making a nice warm dry weather-tight house and then put a high-humidity-generating shower et cetera in the middle? sounds like rethinking time to me. |{hm Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (362) Sun 4 Dec 94 5:13 By: Alan Horowitz To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac78 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Alan Horowitz @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <23504.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 05:13:29 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Sat, 3 Dec 1994, Kerry Miller wrote: > Why go to all the trouble of making a > nice warm dry weather-tight house and then put a high-humidity-generating > shower et cetera in the middle? Hey Kerry, you mean you eat every day?!?!? You know, that really generates a lot of, uhm, solid waste. You are a real burden on the eco-system, buddy. All over the third world, people are struggling to attain indoor plumbing. Thank God that Kerry will correct the error of countless generations. >sounds like rethinking time to me. OK, how's this for high-tech thinking: an exhaust fan in the bathroom... Alan Horowitz alanh@infi.net Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (363) Thu 24 Nov 94 21:25 By: Kevin Luscott To: All Re: Re: Another drumwall water heater? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac79 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: KLUSCOTT@EESTAFF.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Kevin Luscott) @Subject: Re: Another drumwall water heater? @Message-Id: @Sender: news@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 21:25:49 GMT --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Kevin Luscott E2-3355 Ex 6881 --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Univers (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (367) Fri 25 Nov 94 8:29 By: Tom Gray To: All Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ac95 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tom Gray Date: 25 Nov 94 08:29 PST @Subject: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <2219900005@cdp> @Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway /* Written 5:53 AM Nov 25, 1994 by tomhahn in igc:energy.news */ NEWS RELEASE: APS ENVIRONMENTAL SHOWCASE HOME PROJECT COMPLETION & OPENING The APS Environmental Showcase Home is a demonstration project that showcases energy-efficient and environmentally responsible materials and technologies in a home designed for comfortable living in the Phoenix area. The home, built by Arizona Public Service, Arizona's largest electric utility, incorporates environmental planning philosophies into mainstream architectural and building standards and practices. By demonstrating that these ideas work, the home will assist home builders and home buyers in making decisions which will improve and influence the energy efficiency and environmental responsibility of new homes. The home was designed by Jones Studio, Inc. of Phoenix, AZ, without preconceived ideas about look or type, unlike some other similar projects. By relying on fundamental principles of site selection, home orientation, passive solar, daylighting, energy, water and materials efficiency, a home was designed that uses less energy and natural resources and greatly reduces pollution. The home was built by Homes and Son Contractors, Inc. of Phoenix, AZ, beginning in February, 1994, and finishing in November, 1994. The home is located at 15241 N. 60th St. in Phoenix, at the corner of 60th Street and Greenway Rd. on an urban infill lot. The home is a 2,640 square-foot design with four bedrooms, three bathrooms, and other features and amenities similar to homes in the $125,000-$175,000 range. The APS Environmental Showcase Home is designed to be about 60 percent more energy-efficient than typical 'energy- efficient homes built today and use 60 percent less water. Among the Home's features: Passive solar design; High- efficiency triple function heat pump; Stand-alone heat pump and solar water heating; Photovoltaic panels turning sunlight into energy; Highly insulative glazing in the windows; Unique, energy efficient concrete block walls filled with Super Green polyurethane insulating foam; Cellulose insulation in other exterior walls and the vaulted ceilings; Cementitious foam insulation in the garage roof; Energy efficient lighting and appliances; Naturally daylit interior with light on two sides of every space; Xeriscape landscaping with sub-surface irrigation system and computerized controller; Graywater recycling system and rainwater harvesting system to provide all landscape watering needs; Almost every building material has recycled content or is especially resource-efficient; Indoor paints and finishes selected to reduce indoor air pollution; Carefully selected environmentally sensitive furnishings and accessories with organic fabrics, non-off gassing and recyclable materials; Environmentally responsible swimming pool. For more information contact Tom Hahn at Jones Studio (602) 264-2941, or at the Sol Source (602) 257-9635 or contact APS for media kits or tours at (602) 250-2340. Tom can also be reached by email at tomhahn@igc.apc.org --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (368) Sun 4 Dec 94 11:16 By: "Heather J. Scott" To: All Re: DOE student research program ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aca5 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Heather J. Scott" @Subject: DOE student research program @Message-Id: <7958.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 11:16:01 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Hi all! I'm hoping someone can help me... !!Please respond to this post privately at scot0042@gold.tc.umn.edu!! Yesterday, I received a much awaited package and was very disappointed. I had sent for information and application materials for DOE's summer Student Research Participation Program (SRP), which is operated through the Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education. I was hoping to apply for a position at NREL or one of the labs doing renewables research. Unfortunately, NREL was not on the list of SRP participants in my package. (I've listed the participants below.) They sent very detailed descriptions of the research going on at the participating labs and most of it was nuclear, fossil, hazardous waste, or radiation related. (They even sent a pamphlet on the University COAL Research Internship Program. Yuk!) In fact, only one section of one department of one lab truely had any renewables research listed. The FEDIX site says that NREL (well, SERI) has a summer research program for students. However, this info seems to be very outdated. (I called the phone # for the *SERI* contact and it was disconnected.) Can anyone out there verify the existence of such a program at NREL (or PNL, or any other labs doing renewables research) and direct me to the appropriate contact for application materials? I would greatly appreciate any information you may have. This is a list of the participating labs from my info packet: -Atmospheric Turbulence and Diffusion Division, Oak Ridge, TN -Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility, Newport News, VA -Martin Marietta Energy Systems, Inc., Oak Ridge, TN -Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education, Oak Ridge, TN -Oak Rige National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN -Pittsburgh Energy Technology Center, Pittsburgh, PA -Savannah River Ecology Laboratory, Aiken, SC -Savannah River Technology Center, Aiken, SC -Savannah River Archaeological Research Program, Aiken, SC -Triangle Universities Nuclear Lab, Durham, NC Thanks! Heather ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ Heather J Scott-2 at the {} "The dedicated life University of Minnesota {} is the life worth living. You must give with your whole heart." scot0042@gold.tc.umn.edu {} -Dillard ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ DOE student research program --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (372) Sun 4 Dec 94 13:35 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: DOE student research program ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006acd8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: DOE student research program @Message-Id: <14758.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:35:52 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Actually, I would like to see who is offering renewables programs. This is a good example (what Heather sent) of what we are likely to see if we are not paying attention. I know that some of you are very involved in renewables, but folks, the encouragement of one another in this group can help us to tell the government that if they are going to spend money on scientifc research, and energy in particular, we really want it spent on renewables. Let's speak up. Marge RE: DOE student research program --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (373) Sun 4 Dec 94 13:48 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006acd9 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <15285.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:48:33 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Actually, Kerry and all, a high humidity generating shower might be the best thing to have happen in a house if the house were designed so that the moisture (if needed) could be vented throughout the house. Of course, if the climate is very moist and mold is a problem, a vent going outdoors would help, but seems like there might be a way to creatively and beneficially send the fine mist into the sleeping areas. One of those things that sort of gets pushed aside in our various personal Iditarods... Marge Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (374) Sun 4 Dec 94 16:58 By: List Bill Kovarik To: All Re: More Grease from the Oil Industry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006acdc @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: List Bill Kovarik @Subject: More Grease from the Oil Industry @Message-Id: <24550.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 16:58:50 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Friday, Dec. 2, Charles DeBona (DiBona) of the American Petroleum Institute told journalists that new EPA regulations implementing reformulated gasoline in various non-attainment areas should "put an end to the myth that gasoline is dirty and that we need to turn to alternative fuels. I dont know what universe this guy happens to live in, but the myth that reformulated gasoline is "cleaner" than methanol, ethanol or bio-diesel (which API flogged to little effect in 1992) has been pretty squarely laid to rest by CARB and other tests. But it only stands to reason anyway. The inherently higher useful compression ratios of alternative fuels like methanol and ethanol is simply due to more complete combustion, and therefore alcohols will always be cleaner than the jumble of isomers in the C5 to C12 range we call "gasoline." Reformulated gasoline merely backs out the butanes (lowering volatility, which is good) and improves octane without toxics like benzene and methyl benzene (toluene). But what is the price? The rest of the country will get gasoline which is more volatile and still contains these highly carcinogenic compounds. And the need for fuels that dont wreck the climate for our grandchildren has not gone away, despite the API's fantasies. You know, its one thing to argue that petroleum is cheaper and that the economy is not geared for a major transition. Its another thing for the oil industry to flat out lie about their wonderful products in contrast to the rest. I guess the old ways die hard. Bill Kovarik wkovarik@ruacad.ac.runet.edu More Grease from the Oil Industry R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (376) Sun 4 Dec 94 17:10 By: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." To: All Re: AE list, renew-energy & alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ace3 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." @Subject: AE list, renew-energy & alt.energy.renewable link Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 17:10:19 -0500 @Message-Id: @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII @To: renew-energy@ces.ncsu.edu To: AE%SJSUVM1.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: alt.energy.renewable link Newsgroups: alt.energy.renewable Organization: SunSITE, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill In article <18025.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> you write: >Thanks to Mitch at Cornell.Edu, we now are bi-directionally linked >to the usenet newsgroup alt.energy.renewable. [text deleted] >My name is Clyde R. Visser and I am the list owner of AE, the >Alternative Energy discussion list. I established this list >a little over a year ago to facilitate positive communications >on the subject of alternative and/or renewable energy technologies. [text deleted] >Since the charter of AE and alt.energy.renewable >are essentially the same, we, the "AE People" decided to link up >with the "alt.energy.renewable People". "If anyone objects to this >union, let them speak now or forever hold their peace". Anyway, >if you're reading the newsgroup and want to subscribe to the >mailing list, here's a copy of the standard list announcement... I had alt.energy.renewable and the mailing list to which it is bidirectionally gated, renew-energy@ces.ncsu.edu set up over a year ago. There are over a hundred subscribers to this list which provides e-mail access to a.e.r for those not able to read the newsgroup. The purpose of the list is identical to that of the newsgroup. I hope none of the AE people object to this. Personally, I was suprised and delighted to see AE appear in a.e.r. Alt.energy.renewable and the excellent FidoNet echo, HOMEPOWR have been gated to each other bidirectionally for some time. Lately HOMEPOWR articles have not been seen; I hope this problem can be remedied soon. I remember Ekose'a's envelope house designs from many years ago and am glad to see they are still around and on the Net as well. I archive this newsgroup (containing renew-energy and AE) at sunSITE.unc.edu. - anonymous ftp access: ftp sunsite.unc.edu cd pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/energy-resources cd discussion-groups/alt.energy-renewable/Alt.energy.renewable - gopher access: gopher sunsite.unc.edu go to: ------ Worlds of sunSITE browse sunSITE archives academic environment alternative-energy energy-resources discussion-groups alt.energy-renewable - Lawrence London london@sunSITE.unc.edu - Subscription information for the renew-energy mailing list: ----------------------------------------------------------- From almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 17 17:44:41 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 17:40:03 -0400 From: Almanac Information Server Reply to: owner-almanac@twosocks.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: (null) -------- ## Regarding your request: subscribe renew-energy Dear Subscriber, Your subscription has been accepted by almanac@ces.ncsu.edu. Welcome to the list! Below are instructions on how to use Almanac e-mail lists. Please save this message so that you will have instructions on how to send a message or leave this list. TO SEND A MESSAGE to everyone subscribed to the list, send e-mail to renew-energy@ces.ncsu.edu TO SEE WHO IS SUBSCRIBED, send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message: review TO SUBSCRIBE, send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message: subscribe renew-energy TO UNSUBSCRIBE, send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message: unsubscribe renew-energy TO SEE WHICH LISTS you are subscribed to, send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message: which TO RECEIVE MORE INFORMATION, on Almanac commands send e-mail to almanac@ces.ncsu.edu with the message: send guide Electronically yours, The Almanac System Administrator for NCCES e-mail: Statement of purpose: alt.energy.renewable, renew-energy: --------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Jun 1994 04:14:42 GMT From: Larry London Subject: PROPOSAL: alt.energy.renewable From: Don Kulha (dkulha@crl.com): "The purpose of alt.energy.renewable (and renew-energy) will be to promote open discussion of all aspects of practical renewable energy technology, its application and development. Emphasis will be on real-world systems and technology available now and how people apply it and live with it. This newsgroup is inspired by Home Power magazine and the practical, hands-on, gentle-on-the-Earth approach to renewable energy that it promotes. Some subjects for discussion include solar power, photovoltaics, hydropower, wind power, EV's, energy conservation, solar cookers and cooking, batteries, waste minimization, solar hot water, water pumping and the products available in this field." "We're into safe, clean home-made energy using the only nuke we'll ever need (conveniently 93 million miles away." - Archives of all back issues of HOME POWER magazine and much other alternative energy information are available on the Internet at sunSITE.unc.edu via ftp, Gopher, WWW, and ftpmail. Lawrence London london@sunSITE.unc.edu --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]The Uni (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (377) Mon 5 Dec 94 2:42 By: "Marvin G. Beshirs" To: All Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ad06 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" @Subject: suntube @Message-Id: <22973.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 02:42:02 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I have been corresponding with Marge and we seem to agree that I should post this to the list. So, here goes. I saw an advertisement in a paper from the coop where we get our electricity provided. The ad says no electricity is needed to light your house or at least a particular area. Use in new construction, add ons, studies, retrofitting and whatever. --May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes! e-mail at mbeshirs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us !Please! Following from advertisement in Rural Missouri from White River Electric Cooperative December 1994 (has picture also) Super reflective Surface. Diffuser dome lights entire room. New!! SUNPIPE daylighting system Light up dark spaces with natural daylight...... part deleted More for less. Costs half price of conventional welled in skylights. Installed as low as $395 Call or write for brochure SunPipe RR3-77W Stockton, MO 65785 1-800-707-12226 (This may be toll free only in MO. Try if you want.) suntube --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (378) Mon 5 Dec 94 4:04 By: Ross M Donald To: All Re: Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wrap) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ad0d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ross M Donald @Subject: Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wrap) @Message-Id: <27227.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 04:04:51 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List To: Gmoke - More Boring Home Video Cc: AE-LIST Subject: Photovoltaic Crap (formerly wrap) George, (I've enclosed a message, which has been answered.) I'm not sure about the Argonne support, which would be an outrage, in and of itself, for this pie in the sky; but I do wonder about letting the happy talk about "70% efficiency" persist. As I recall, he was saying 80% last Spring! Do you have the video of the Alvin Marks BASEA Forum? Let's do a screening, for the comments. Only a few seemed to understand what he was talking about, and they didn't agree with him, either. This is the solar version of electricity to cheap to meter! Meanwhile, what we have, becomes obsolete... -ross =>------------------------------ => =>Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:06:04 -0600 =>From: Rick Magyar =>Subject: Photovoltaic wrap => =>I recently came across the following short article in =>the monthly REC magazine I receive from our rural =>electric co-op: => =>"Rooftop photovoltaic plants may get more economical. =>Using a new kind of solar technology that imitates =>photosynthesis, researchers at Advanced Research =>Development in Massachusetts have developed Lumeloid, =>a light-sensitive film. It can be rolled like plastic =>wrap, sold inexpensively in hardware stores, and =>installed easily by consumers. The company began a =>three-year, $1.8-million project with the Argonne =>National Laboratory to develop the product. If it =>works, the film may be able to convert sunlight into =>electricity at 70-percent efficiency." => =>Does anyone know any more information about this =>technology, or at least where in Massachusetts Advanced =>Research Development is located so I can contact them? =>Thanks for your help. => =>Rick Magyar =>Photovoltaic wrap => =>------------------------------ =>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=> ------------------------------------------------------- rnn@world.std.com \ Information Ecologies \ 141 Fisher Avenue \ Boston, MA 02143 USA Ross M. Donald \ 1-617/730-5656 Life of the Party \ "So It Goes" \ -Linda Ellerbee ------------------------------------------------------- --------> Renewable News Network rnn@world.std.com Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wrap) --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (379) Mon 5 Dec 94 4:18 By: Ross M Donald To: All Re: MDH Generators ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ad10 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ross M Donald @Subject: MDH Generators @Message-Id: <27988.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 04:18:45 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From: Ross Donald To: Robin van Spaandonk Robin, Robin, Not bad! Almost all I know about MHD, I read in articles from Scientific American and MIT Technology Review - fluid replaces rotor, look it up under Great Idea! -ross => =>------------------------------ => =>Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 10:39:05 +1100 =>From: Robin van Spaandonk =>Subject: MHD generators? => =>Does anyone know of any research done into the concept =>of using the wind as the motive force in an MHD =>generator, thus producing electricity with no moving =>parts? => =>TIA => =>Robin van Spaandonk => =>MHD generators? => =>------------------------------ => ------------------------------------------------------- rnn@world.std.com \ Information Ecologies \ 141 Fisher Avenue \ Boston, MA 02143 USA Ross M. Donald \ 1-617/730-5656 Life of the Party \ "So It Goes" \ -Linda Ellerbee ------------------------------------------------------- --------> Renewable News Network rnn@world.std.com MDH Generators --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (381) Mon 5 Dec 94 0:40 By: CYBURG To: All Re: Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ad19 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: cyburg@aol.com (CYBURG) @Subject: Re: Trace Inverter cold feet Date: 5 Dec 1994 00:40:31 -0500 @Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com @Message-Id: <3bu94f$qkc@newsbf01.news.aol.com> Is the red low battery light on? Symtoms suggests that inverter shut its self off.. for one reason or another including internal malfunction also check excellent Trace tech support. Cynthia --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]America (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (383) Mon 5 Dec 94 6:24 By: Bill Berggren To: All Re: PHOTOVOLT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ad1d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Bill Berggren @Subject: PHOTOVOLT @Message-Id: <2543.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 06:24:47 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Ross, I am sorry to say but what the guy printed was correct. Actually 99%, but at Argonne they were only able to get 70%. This figure is from many sources. Look at Solar Today Journal, there is a small mention of it in the letters section. Rather than using semiconductors, the cells use some molecule. Haven't read an entire article on it yet though. PHOTOVOLT --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (385) Fri 2 Dec 94 14:57 By: Dadoc To: Ian Woofenden Re: REFRIGERATORS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IW--}Where is this company located? What kind of prices do they have? If IW--}they are better than Sunfrost, why haven't they received attention IW--}in the AE market? Are they a new company? Sub-Zero is an old company and did a lot of commercial production for many years. Only cooks and the like had their boxes in their kitchens. I don't have the address here (I'm in my office now) but I'll look at home. I know I have it there. I'll post a message to you with their phone number at least. I think they have an 800 #. I'll let you konw. Aloha, --==Ziggy==-- INTERNET: dadoc@hol.com Well, got back to this message before it was sent out. The number is (800) 222-7820 I called them the other day and asked for their brochures/catalogue. They tell me it's no the way. --- þ SLMR 2.0 þ If vegitarians eat vegetables, beware of humanitarians! --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hawaii OnLine, Lihue, Kauai - (808) 246-8887(M) 1880(V) (1:345/31) @PATH: 345/31 209/720 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (386) Fri 2 Dec 94 22:21 By: Ian Woofenden To: Jim Bilderback Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 73aeb648 @REPLY: 1:125/42 7ebdef8c On (30 Nov 94) Jim Bilderback wrote to All... JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle JB> and not sweat too much? Enough to run the TV . Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. I scanned the TOC of the last 6 or 8 issues and didn't see anything else. But I know there have been other article on pedal power in the past year or so. Maybe someone has an index of HP handy. Also, I'm pretty sure there was an ad for a single person pedal-powered unit for sale in one or more of the back issues. The back issues of HP are well worth owning, IMO, providing a liberal education on the subject. Ian ... A noisy noise annoys an oyster. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (388) Thu 1 Dec 94 11:45 By: James Rowe To: Darwin Holberton Re: Electric Cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2613/119@fidonet.org 760576e1 @REPLY: 1:2613/111.0 2ecce4a2 I am responding to your inquiry about electric cars. I do not know all that much about them either, but I am trying to find information on compost alcohol to run cars. I am trying to find alternatives which would give more mileage than electric cars which unfortunately need to be charged every fifty miles or so. Kind of a nuisance even going to Buffalo, unless you are planning to spend the night. I am also working on the idea of using compost for methane gas, to replace heating and cooking fuel, and possibly eliminate the need for external power supply completely. Please drop me a line if you hear anything, or have any ideas. --- Ezycom V1.02 01fa0061 * Origin: 1XIS,Webster,NY 28.8vfc,XA,CM (1:2613/119) @PATH: 2613/119 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (392) Sun 4 Dec 94 11:27 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Jim Bilderback Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c20c6335 -> Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially more power -> .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. Your milage may vary..... I really wanted to run a 12 volt 9 inch tv, but I aint mean enough...... ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (400) Sun 4 Dec 94 10:45 By: Ben Ringwald To: William Stroud Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:124/4115.251 2ee19ead @REPLY: 1:151/142.0 2edbc3f9 Hello William! 29 Nov 94 19:55, William Stroud wrote to John Draper: JD>> I've thought JD>> about making a coil tuned to various natural noise sources that JD>> appear at various points across the radio spectrum. WS> Great idea! Then at least no one would complain about you WS> affecting their broadcast patterns, and it would work even Except the FCC! WS> I'm pretty sure the formula I used was right. So, one last WS> question: Does my coil have to be made with bare copper wire? WS> Or will insulated wire of any other metal work as well? Bare or insulated wire would do fine. RF will travel through the insulation with no problems. Ben --- GoldED 2.42.G0615 * Origin: Welcome to Pecan Valley * FW Texas (1:124/4115.251) @PATH: 124/4115 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (403) Mon 5 Dec 94 9:31 By: Arlo Hagler To: All Re: Solar & Electrical services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Arlo Hagler, ELECTRICIAN: Solar power systems, AC & DC Home wiring, phone systems, installation and programming, PROBLEM SOLVING. Call 923-2329 or E-mail at: Arlo@f53.n125.z1.fidonet.org. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (404) Mon 5 Dec 94 9:40 By: Arlo Hagler To: Ian Woofenden Re: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!" I am not a number, I am a person! All of you were persons once. (Who is number one?). As for the batteries, perhaps one of those 12v. heating pads I've seen in AEE and/or Real Goods catalog, placed beneath the batteries. Probably a better way, tho'. Ideas, anyone? --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (406) Mon 5 Dec 94 7:20 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Tony Camillo Re: RE: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > What temp rate do you keep your wood stove at ? Max ? > I usually keep the temp at 400-450 (magnetic type on flue) I run it at 400-600, depending on outside temperature, until the room warms up, then the computer switches it to 200. Most of the time, it's bringing things up to temperature, and I fire it very lightly once things are warm, so I have nearly no creosote buildup. Plus, I use fairly-well seasoned wood, kept under roof. We've not cleaned the stack in years now, and it's still in fine shape; it's a double-wall solid-pack (MetalBestos) type, the ONLY kind to use with a stove. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, Boardwatch Number 55 @ 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (407) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:02 By: Lawrence Lucier To: E. Michael Smith Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:340/204.0 2ee3e342 ::To: All From: E. Michael Smith Subj: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? :: ---------------------- > recipe for alternative diesel fuel, and wonder >if anyone can give me EMS> Yes, this is right and it works. I did it with Soybean oil. EMS> The basic conclusion I came to was that you could run just about > anything oil derived if you got the viscosity close to #2 Diesel, > if it was clean, and if had a good enough cetane rating (which could > often be fixed by adding Kerosene). Just a note to say.....great post!! Don't know if I'll ever get around to playing with this stuff but it sure made interesting reading! EMS> Manager of Stuff Grin....love it! < Walks away muttering " There's so much I don't know about.....> ... Be excellent to each other; Party on, dudes! --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes (1:340/204) @PATH: 340/204 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (408) Mon 5 Dec 94 9:52 By: Kendall Willets To: All Re: LED Lighting Efficiency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae13 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: kendall@slip.net (Kendall Willets) @Subject: LED Lighting Efficiency Date: 5 Dec 1994 09:52:54 GMT @Message-Id: <3buntm$4mp@kadath.zeitgeist.net> @Reply-To: kendall@slip.net After the earlier thread about LED flashlights, I checked the Radio Shack catalog for specs on their LEDs. One thing that struck me, after I did a few calculations, was that the efficiency of their 5-candle LED is quite high. Normally 100 lumens/watt is considered good for a fluorescent lamp, but I got a figure of over 1600 lumens/watt for the LED! Here are my calculations; is there some error? It seems impossibly high, or else there's something about candlepower that I need to learn: Rated 5000 mcd = 5 candles x 12.57 lumens/candle = 62.85 lumens Rated 20 mA @ 1.85 V = .037 W 62.85/.037 = 1698.6 lumens/W BTW I didn't use a Pentium or the Windows calculator for these computations, so we can eliminate those sources of error ;-) For purposes of comparison, a 60-watt bulb is about 700 lumens, so 12 of these LEDs would outshine the bulb and consume .44 Watts. Of course, the light is red, but for many uses that's sufficient. I tried one of these LEDs in a flashlight, and it really does seem bright! --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]UFO Out (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (409) Mon 5 Dec 94 13:38 By: Ronald Kolbe To: All Re: Re: MHD generators? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae1d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: kolbe@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil (Ronald Kolbe) @Subject: Re: MHD generators? Date: 05 Dec 1994 13:38:23 GMT @Message-Id: @In-Reply-To: Robin van Spaandonk's message of Sat, 3 Dec 1994 23:42:28 GMT I am not to sure wind would work. You need a good conductor for the working fluid. Basic idea behind MHD power generation is conductor moves through magnetic field and produces electricity. DOE has been researching high temperature ionized gas at greater than mach 1 with supermagnetics. There may be some work with air and mixed with a conductor, two phase flow, but I am not aware of any. -- Ron Kolbe kolbe@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Naval R (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (410) Mon 5 Dec 94 14:17 By: McBeath To: All Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae20 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: j321@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (McBeath) @Subject: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc. Date: 5 Dec 1994 14:17:32 GMT @Message-Id: <3bv7ds$i5u@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> Harry H Conover (conover@max.tiac.net) wrote: : ben@pmafire.inel.gov wrote: : : Westinghouse made a fortune harvesting the ideas of Russian scientist Nikolai : : Tesla. : First, to set the record straight, Tesla was not Russion -- He was Serbian. : Westinghouse purchased rights to Telsa's patents on the AC Induction Motor, : likely a profitable move for Westinghouse. Unfortunately it was to become : one of the few practical ideas that Tesla produced during his lifetime : (1856-1943). also, Tesla signed a contract for /hp of electricity produced, which was subsequently broken : : : One of his ideas was to put great quantities of conductor on the : : ground and harvest power from the surroundings. : Likely, one of the reasons that Tesla died relative poor. : : This has not been a big money maker for George W. : Not being born a fool, George W. 'passed' when Tesla tried to sell him : on this idea. : : but should be a starting point for someone : : interested in reading about some already performed research. : Unfortunately, reading about the life and work of Nicoli Tesla : will not provide one with a useful role model re productive research. : A brilliant eccentric, Tesla focused on spectacular and flashy work, : rather than the mundane but useful. By today's standards, with the : exception of his basic work on alternating current electricity and : resonant transformers (Tesla Coils), much of Tesla's later work : produced only bizarre ideas. in addition, Tesla was able to build "radio controlled" boats etc. which everybody of the day poo-pooed. he did this before marconi was on his thing, i believe..... (well, he did it very early anyway) also, Edison gave Tesla a bum rap which severely curtailed Tesla's research funds. If Edison had won, we would have power stations about every 10 miles for quite a while. ) : As somewhat of a folk hero, Tesla's work is frequently cited as holding : some sort of a key to modern day energy problems. In fact, his : ideas were eclipsed by scientific progress in the early part of this : century. : Harry C. rod j321@unb.ca --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Univers (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (411) Mon 5 Dec 94 9:01 By: ned.nisson To: All Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae21 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ned.nisson@energy.com @Subject: SUNTUBE @Message-Id: <9412050901.0COC300@energy.com> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 94 09:01:23 > post this to the list. So, here goes. I saw an advertisement in a > paper from the coop where we get our electricity provided. The ad > says > no electricity is needed to light your house or at least a > particular area. > Use in new construction, add ons, studies, retrofitting and > whatever. Sunpipe is a unique and impressive device. It's basically just a _very_ shiny tube with plastic domes on top and bottom. It installs in the ceiling and up through the roof. From the inside, it kind of looks like a light fixture. Even on cloudy days, it brings in quite a bit of light. The ad about "no electricity" may be a bit of an exaggeration; it doesn't work at night when we use the most lighting electricity. We did an analysis of the product in Energy Design Update last year. You can read it online from Energy Design Online - (212)662-0388. Ned Nisson, Editor sent from Energy Design Update Energy Design Online (212)662-0388 [modem] ned.nisson@energy.com (212)662-7428 (voice) --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Energy (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (415) Mon 5 Dec 94 7:11 By: Tom Gray To: All Re: --Canada, Tacke in Turbine Deal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae53 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tom Gray @Subject: --Canada, Tacke in Turbine Deal @Message-Id: Date: Mon, 05 Dec 1994 07:11:36 -0800 (PST) /* Written 7:07 AM Dec 5, 1994 by tgray in igc:energy.news */ CANMET CONTRACTS WITH TACKE FOR NEW 600-KW WIND TURBINE CANMET, the research and development branch of Natural Resources Canada (NRC), recently awarded a contract to Tacke Windpower, Inc. (TWI) of London, Ontario, to "design, construct, and evaluate a 600-kW horizontal axis wind turbine suitable for grid coupled windfarm applications," according to a recent news release from CanWEA. Through this project, "TWI plans to redesign the 600-kW to suit the environmental conditions of North America, the main target market for this machine," said the release. According to Raj Rangi of NRC, the finished Canadian turbine will be essentially the same as the 600-kW machines currently marketed by TWI's parent company, Tacke Windtechnik, in Germany. Rangi said certain components will be altered to handle temperature extremes of -40 to +40 degrees Celsius (-40 to +100 degrees Fahrenheit), which are common in North America but not in Europe. The project will cost Cdn $1.29 million, according to the release, with TWI contributing $940,000 and CANMET putting in $350,000 through the Energy Research and Development Program. The other partners in the project are Diamond Aircraft of London, Ontario, and Canadian Agra Corp. (CAC) of Kincardine, Ont., the bulletin said. "The production of the rotor blades and assembly of the wind turbine will take place at the Diamond Aircraft facilities," the release noted. The tower and nacelle cover will also be manufactured in Canada, but Rangi said that manufacturers for those components have yet to be solicited. Two test turbines will be erected next spring, said Rangi, and the North American 600-kW Tacke machine should be available on the market late next summer or early in the fall. The prototype testing will take place on CAC land near Kincardine, according to the release. "TWI expects this project to generate up to 100 direct and indirect jobs by 1997. At a good site, one of these 600-kW turbines can generate enough energy to meet the electrical needs of 150 to 180 homes. This project is ideally suited for Canada's goal of job creation, sustainable development and environmental protection," concluded the release. _____________________________________________________________________ __________ The American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) has authorized me to offer an electronic edition of its newsletter, _Wind Energy Weekly_, from which the above article is excerpted, at no cost. For those of you who have not previously seen excerpts from back issues on Usenet or Bitnet, the _Weekly_ reports on the outlook for renewable energy, energy-related environmental issues, and renewable energy legislation in addition to wind industry trade news. The electronic edition normally runs about 10kb in length. The free electronic edition of the _Weekly_ is intended as an educational publication for those without a commercial interest in the wind energy industry. If your interest in wind is commercial in nature, please write to for more information about AWEA membership and publications. If you would like a free electronic subscription, send me an e-mail request. Please include information on your position, organization, and reason for interest in the publication. The American Wind Energy Association also offers a variety of publications on wind energy, including technical literature, audio/visual resources, information for the prospective residential wind turbine owner, and more. To learn more about this clean, renewable alternative to conventional electric power plants, send any message to: windpubs-info@igc.apc.org You will receive an automatic reply. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Tom Gray EcoNet/PeaceNet: tgray@igc Internet/Bitnet: tgray@igc.apc.org UUCP: uunet!cdp!tgray --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (417) Mon 5 Dec 94 18:46 By: DaveHatunen To: All Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae5a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hatunen@netcom.com (DaveHatunen) @Subject: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc @Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 18:46:37 GMT In article , William Stroud wrote: > -=> Quoting John Draper to William Stroud <=- > > JD> I've often thought about > JD> makeing a coil to resonate at 60 cycles. Now that one, would use > JD> capacitors to resonate the coil. Imagine how long the wire would > JD> be for a full wave 60 cycle coil! > > 3,100 miles to be exact within 3 significant digits. Why would you > want such a coil? Um. That's the wavelength at 60 Hz. And an appropriate antenna might be half-wave, or 1550 miles long. But that's not what he asked. He asked about a resonant coil. Coils are not, in principle, resonant. One uses capacitance and a coil, either in series or in parallel (depending on your intended use) to create a resonant LC circuit. It is not particularly outrageous to make a 60 Hz resonant circuit, although because of the size of the coil, wire resistance will probably be a significant factor, and it will be necessary to to use the equation for an RLC circuit. These equations are available in any radio handbook, including the ARRL handbook, and even in Schaum's outline for electric circuits. I'm not sure why one would make such a circuit, though. One could make a 60 Hz radio transmitter I suppose (the Navy has even lower frequency radio transmitters in use), but why? -- ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * ******************************************************* --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]As litt (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (418) Mon 5 Dec 94 14:03 By: Paul Clayton To: All Re: Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae5b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: g8907489@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Paul Clayton) @Subject: Re: Peddle Power? Date: 5 Dec 1994 14:03:48 -0500 @Message-Id: <3bvo6k$1vq@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> In article , Jim Bilderback wrote: > EH> > > Our normal "load" is a twelve volt muffin fan pointed right in my face > > I've seen 12 volts at half an amp (into a resistive load) so I guess i > > wanted to sweat a LOT you could make 10 watts. (I was working pretty > > to make six.) > > > >Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially more >power .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. > > * JABBER v1.2 * A couple of months ago I saw a show that breifly mentioned the power output capablilities of a well conditioned athelete. The said that the maximum output for short spurts is about 2.2 hp (1650 watts) and for sustained periods ie. marathons 0.4 hp (300 watts). Don't forget that there will be mechanical and electrical losses, so your net electric power will be considerably less. I hope this helps. Paul C. --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]McMaste (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (420) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:11 By: Howard Smith To: All Re: Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae64 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Howard Smith @Subject: Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wr @Message-Id: <14402.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:11:20 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >Subject: Photovoltaic Crap (formerly wrap) > >George, > > (I've enclosed a message, which has been answered.) > > I'm not sure about the Argonne support, which would >be an outrage, in and of itself, for this pie in the sky; >but I do wonder about letting the happy talk about "70% >efficiency" persist. As I recall, he was saying 80% >last Spring! > > Do you have the video of the Alvin Marks BASEA >Forum? Let's do a screening, for the comments. Only a >few seemed to understand what he was talking about, and >they didn't agree with him, either. > > This is the solar version of electricity to cheap to >meter! Meanwhile, what we have, becomes obsolete... > > -ross > >=>------------------------------ >=> >=>Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:06:04 -0600 >=>From: Rick Magyar >=>Subject: Photovoltaic wrap >=> >=>I recently came across the following short article in >=>the monthly REC magazine I receive from our rural >=>electric co-op: >=> >=>"Rooftop photovoltaic plants may get more economical. >=>Using a new kind of solar technology that imitates >=>photosynthesis, researchers at Advanced Research >=>Development in Massachusetts have developed Lumeloid, >=>a light-sensitive film. It can be rolled like plastic >=>wrap, sold inexpensively in hardware stores, and >=>installed easily by consumers. The company began a >=>three-year, $1.8-million project with the Argonne >=>National Laboratory to develop the product. If it >=>works, the film may be able to convert sunlight into >=>electricity at 70-percent efficiency." >=> >=>Does anyone know any more information about this >=>technology, or at least where in Massachusetts Advanced >=>Research Development is located so I can contact them? >=>Thanks for your help. >=> >=>Rick Magyar >=>Photovoltaic wrap >=> >=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=> > >------------------------------------------------------- >rnn@world.std.com \ Information Ecologies > \ 141 Fisher Avenue > \ Boston, MA 02143 USA >Ross M. Donald \ 1-617/730-5656 > Life of the Party \ "So It Goes" > \ -Linda Ellerbee >------------------------------------------------------- Copied without permission from the Nov/Dec 1994 SOLAR TODAY, a magazine published by the American Solar Energy Society. Solar Cell Roll Joint research between Advanced Research Development, Inc. (ARDI) of Athol, Massachusetts and the U.S. Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory near Chicago will focus on developing a "solar cell on a roll." The product, as presently conceived, would look like a plastic wrap, be stretched over a frame and wired, and would then convert sunlight into electricity with a projected 70 percent efficiency (see SOLAR TODAY, May/June 1993, "A New Solar Electric Invention, page 24) The three-year, $1.8 million, cost-shared project will develop this new solar technology that uses a film instead of layers of semiconductors to convert light into electric power. The project plans to incorporate photo-active molecules developed by Argonne into electrically conductive, stretchable film developed by ARDI. Argonne's molecules convert solar energy into electrical energy with greater than 99 percent efficiency. For more information, contact Dave Baurac, Argonne National Laboratory, 9700 South Cass Avenue, Argonne, Illinois, 60439, (708)252-5584. hhs Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wr R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (421) Mon 5 Dec 94 20:01 By: BOB KELLAND To: All Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae69 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: BOB KELLAND @Subject: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) @Message-Id: <10783.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:01:58 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am observing how a small tiltback windmill reacts to snow and ice build-up on the blades. The windmill is homemade and has been operating since May 94. The blade diameter is 40 inches (2 blades). This morning, with a strong wind blowing, the blades were turning VERY slowly. There is a 1/2 to 3/4 inch ice and snow build-up on the front surface of the blades. The airfoil profile has been drastically modified to say the least. The present temperature is -2 C. The question now is what will happen as the snow and ice is shed from the blades (vibration??). Will post another note on the outcome. Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (422) Mon 5 Dec 94 20:02 By: Lee Butler To: All Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae6a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lee Butler @Subject: none @Message-Id: <10815.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:02:02 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List The University of Ekotecture The environmental art and science school was founded in Palm Beach Florida on December 5, 1994 by Artists Jill Karlin and Architect Lee porter Butler. Correspondance programs in both environmental architecture, solar power, organic permaculture, biodigestion, Ekotecture, Yoga, music and drama are now availible and a data server will soon put the program on the Internet. A special program in interactive Cd ROM intuitive learning games will be availible in 1996. To subscribe to the school catalog and be kept posted on all up coming developments in the field of sustainable construction, environmental ecology, floating architecture, and decentralized solar gravity powered utility systems, paticipatory democratic design sessions for resolution of group process. To subscribe to the catalog, mail check or Money order to Jill Karlin Butler, 620 Biscayne, West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 or call 1-800 -496-4557 and charge to Visa, Mastercharge or American Express. $25 or send information, card # exp. date and address to Internet EMail lbutler@gate.net Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656  NO SUBJECT --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (423) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:29 By: Mike To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae6c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mike@Graphics.Cornell.edu - LITC VAX System Support Mgr @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <15476.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:29:30 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >From: Marge Wood >Actually, Kerry and all, a high humidity generating shower might be the >best thing to have happen in a house if the house were designed so that >the moisture (if needed) could be vented throughout the house. Of course, >if the climate is very moist and mold is a problem, a vent going outdoors >would help, but seems like there might be a way to creatively and >beneficially send the fine mist into the sleeping areas. One of those >things that sort of gets pushed aside in our various personal Iditarods... >Marge There is a heater in my bathroom. I don't like to shiver too much when I step out of the shower, so I tryed to use it to keep the bathroom a little warmer than the rest of the house. In order for that to work I had to keep the door closed. With the door closed, as Marge said, mold/mildew soon began to form. So now what I do is simple. When I get up I turn on the heat in the bathroom and close the door. For a few minutes I do other things while it warms up. Then after my shower I turn the heater back off, and leave the door open. The warm moist air quickly circulates (by convection) out into the rest of the house providing humidity which is needed anyway, and the bathroom dries out quickly before mold can grow. Seems like a pretty good system to me... :) Mike Schroeder Drive Electric today, breath easier tomorrow schroeder@nhqvax.sanders.lockheed.com Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (424) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:31 By: Harry Groot To: All Re: Re: environmental journal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae6d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Harry Groot @Subject: Re: environmental journal @Message-Id: <15546.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:31:12 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Marge asked: > The periodicals librarian just came downstairs and told me that GARBAGE > magazine has ceased publication, and wants to know what good broad-based > environmental magazine would be a good addition to the collection. Any > suggestions? I receive "Solid Waste Technlogies" at work. It's a trade/technical publication with a focus on recycling, compostiing, waste-to-energy, landfilling, and landfill gas-to-energy. The publishers are: HCI Publications 410 Archibald St Kansas City, MO 64111-3046 816 931 1311 Voice 816 931 2015 fax Harry hwgroot@nebula.lib.vt.edu Re: environmental journal R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (425) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:54 By: l-debaillie To: All Re: re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae71 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: l-debaillie@cecer.army.mil @Subject: re: temp fluctuation in solarium Date: 5 Dec 1994 21:54:00 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: teeddoug@nbnet.nb.ca (Doug Teed) Wrote: | | I have a 10 x 10 solarium with 30 deg. sloping glass on | top. It can be | isolated from the house by sliding patio door. Problem: | extreme temp fluctu- | ations in summer & winter. Exhaust fan hooked to | thermostat pumps warm air | into basement, which provides some thermal storage. | How can I make the solarium more liveable for me and my | plants? Would a dark | tile floor absorb enough heat to keep the sol. warm at | night during winter? | Typical nighttime temps between Nov.-Mar. are around -10 | to -25 degrees | Celcius. | Could I cover the dark tiles with a white throw rug in | summer to reflect solar | energy? I am also considering installing some type of | shade or blind for the | glass roof which may help shade and insulate. | | I'd appreciate any suggestions or sources for information. | Thanks. | | Doug Teed | The white throw rug will reflect some visible light back out, but most of the infrared light ("heat") will be trapped in your space- probably not very effective. Your best bet for the summer is shading the roof as you suggested. Summer is somewhat easy, just regulate the amount of sunlight you let in. As for winter, a dark tile floor may help, but it needs enough thermal mass behind it to store enough heat to last the night. Your summer blind on the roof in the winter will help prevent the space from re-radiating heat to the cold night sky - you may even want to consider blinds around the entire sunspace. This way, you could regulate the amount of sunlight coming in in the summer, and "trap" the sun's heat in overnight in the winter. However, if your sunspace's windows do not insulate well, there's nothing you can do about the winter heat loss short of replacing the windows with windows of a higher R-value, or using window "insulators" or curtains. Winter's definitely tougher, but essentially you want to let as much light in as possible in the day and then "enclose" the space to prevent heat loss at night through radiation and conduction/convection. Lee DeBaillie --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (426) Mon 5 Dec 94 20:19 By: Bob Myers To: All Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? In reply to 199412030058 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae73 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Bob Myers @Subject: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? In reply to 199412030058 @Message-Id: <11644.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:19:59 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Truckers use #2 heating oil in place of #2 diesel. Wehn they get caught, by the Fed or the Staties, the pay the big Kio-Buck fine. How do they get caught? The Feds had mandated red dye in the heating oil. Beware, some "enterprising" on road diesel dealers are putting #2 fuel oil in the #2 on raod diesel and charging the tax paid price for it. If that's not bad enough, you pay the fines if you get caught. No, I don't know of a filter to get rid of the red dye. Bob Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? In reply to 199412030058 --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (427) Mon 5 Dec 94 20:20 By: Lee Butler To: All Re: Signing Off Folks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae74 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lee Butler @Subject: Signing Off Folks @Message-Id: <11676.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:20:03 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Greetings earthlings and humanoid creatures, I am Commander Alpha of the Starship Nirvana. We have come to rescue the Genesis project. 4.5 million years ago, we landed here and set up the project. Our crew consisted of me and thirteen female Pledians. Each of the women gave birth to several children each. Each child became a demigod. In addition, I, Alpha, am the androgynous light being, cross walker with the male anatomy and lovers passion, sent by our creators to love, protect , impregnate, empower all thirteen of these women equally and to reproduce with as many primitive earth humanoid women as possible, to introduce the essence of the Pleadian genetic DNA code into the brain and genes of the evolving primitive earthling humanoid beings. Our mission, while it did raise the vibrational level of the earthlings, did not totally reach its mark. We have come back now to correct our failures and save all of you from horrible disasters which lie in wait. In a few years, the present known world will be destroyed by global civil war for resources waged by those who will not allow the abusers to go on using it all up. Massive ecological ignorance and environmental damage, destruction and death, everywhere you look, then, when all is lost, volcanoes will start going off, earthquakes, tidal waves, all over the world, creating rivers of Lava, black clouds hanging in the atmosphere for years, sub zero temperatures, and widespread death. World famine will be the scourge of every nation, even before all of this happens. Skyscrapers will topple into the rivers of lava, then like match sticks falling off of a table, continents will sink, new mountain ranges will arise from beneath the sea. Billions of lives could be lost if we are unsuccessful. Natural forces will physically destroy all that mankind has made upon this earth. Some human beings, if they can listen to this message I am delivering, will build the Ekotecture biospheres,floating cities, complete life support systems, macro ecosystems, held aloft by solar heated hot air balloons, a virtual paradise, heaven on earth if you will. All for the enjoyment of those who "know" Everyone is the entire world should be able to understand what I am saying, once they have it all explained to them properly. It is logical and plain common sense in any language. I, designer, have reinvented the whole world. Physically manifesting and building the design that I have designed-invented will occupy the energies of just about every humanoid type being on planet earth for the next several years. Once word travels to everyone's ears, human beings will learn to understand, cooperate and comprehend, to drop their egos or perish in the up and coming disasters as predicted by so many " people in the know". Until we accept this reality and act to shift the paradigm, to change our entire way of thinking, of seeing everyone work together for a common good, life, we are all doomed. Wake up humanoids. You are caught up in a destructive illusion. Earthis paradise. We are in a state of divine grace and bliss. We invite others to join us whenever they can. We call it a party, we call it a new order, we call it a creative communications center, a place where everyone gets to speak. Come join in our circle of love and learn the secrets of the great pyramids, the Cabal, the Holy Grail,the Lost ARC, come let us touch you, let us show you the way, the ARC. Alpha Lee Rainbow Light Cloud Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656 Signing Off Folks --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (428) Mon 5 Dec 94 20:23 By: Lee Butler To: All Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae75 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lee Butler @Subject: none @Message-Id: <12149.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:23:41 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Dear AE BBS Group, Sorry I have been such a (p.i.t.a.) but I am really trying now. The letter to consultants below outlines the technical areas of my work. My book, Ekose'a Homes describes the initial concept of the Ekose'a Home, specifically referring to passive solar heating and ventilating proceedures and my own invention, the gravity geothermal envelope for heating and cooling without fristion or fossil fuel. My new company is making a library of material on my work, availible to the general public, by subscription. Included in the Ekotecture Journal are the following topics and information. (1) A full color, soft cover ( Architectural Digest Quality ) catalog, Ekose'a Homes =A9 illustrating 23 homes which have been built all over the world by ordinary people like yourself. Thousands of owner occupied homes do not lie. Over the past 15 years government lab.s, universities and individual scientists have monitored and documented the performance of Ekose'a homes. (2) Reprints of pictorial feature stories, interviews, articles, diagrams, drawings and specifications provide general insight to the workings and advantages of the Ekose'a concept. (3) Construction costs for hundreds of homes. Verify and confirm the cost of building an Ekose'a Home before you begin. (4) Ekotecture =A9 The technical paper, presented to the First International Conference on sustainable construction, Tampa Florida, November 6-9, 1994 (5) Third Party Monitoring and Research Material. More than 35 technical papers and research projects have studied the Ekose'a concept of design in some aspect or another. (6) Learn about the ways in which owners tinkered around with the concept and changed their houses. Find out what they result was. (7) Follow the negotiations with the Defense Department, EPA DOE, and HUD for the first prototype community of 5000 homes, completely off the grid. (8) Learn how you can become an Ekotecture concultant, working in a world wide web of utility and manufacturing companies and services. All of this and more with a subscription to the Ekotecture Vision. The cost to be put on this hot line of alternative technology is only $25 per month. Within six months, the company will have a BBS data base server up and running. This will become immediately availible at no additional charge. Details and specifications can then be downloaded instantly. What I am really doing is setting up my new University, right here and now! If you are genuinely interested in the field, you will become a student, paying your way as you go. You will also automatically be in line to go to work for the company. Sincerely, Lee Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656 lbutler@gate.net Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656  NO SUBJECT --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (429) Mon 5 Dec 94 20:38 By: Stuart Morrison To: All Re: Re: AE Mailing List ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae77 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Stuart Morrison @Subject: Re: AE Mailing List @Message-Id: <12752.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:38:17 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Got your reply Clyde. Still not getting anything from ae or ev. Where do you start? Thanks for your prompt reply. -- Stuart Morrison stuart@stusys.EEPO.DIALix.oz.au Perth Western Australia. Why didn't I think of that? Re: AE Mailing List --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (431) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:13 By: Mryka Hall-Beyer To: All Re: Re: circulation in houses ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae7b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mryka Hall-Beyer @Subject: Re: circulation in houses @Message-Id: <14847.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:13:34 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AS> To the point: is there any way to improve the circulation AS> (with fresh air) without compromsing the insulative (word?) AS> qualities of the house/building? AS> I presume you know about heat exchangers. But beyond that, I live in a fairly tight passive solar house. I find that it is worth the small cost to simply open the windows every now and again. As weatherstripping needs replacing, sometimes I don't replace it. There is thus a fair bit of infil- tration. The idea that houses have to be really tight to see just how super- efficient they can be is I think more an exercise in engineering than a way to cope with the real world. This is fine for your house. But in a big building it's another problem. We are located in a building 2 years old now. The union went to bat to get openable windows in our offices. As a result, the building design\ has offices around the perimeter, and services and most classrooms in the centre block. The core is heated and cooled zonally. Each office has its own thermostat for heating. It's a gas-fired hot-water boiler radiator system, so each radiator can be controlled independently. There is no air conditioning in the offices, however. If you want your office cooled, you can close the window and open the door to the hallway and get a measure of cooling that way. Of course, I shoudl note that we live in southern Canada, and the air conditioning load is not too great. As a result, we can usually get by with open windows in the summer. -Mryka Re: circulation in houses --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (432) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:15 By: Mryka Hall-Beyer To: All Re: Re: wood heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae7c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mryka Hall-Beyer @Subject: Re: wood heat @Message-Id: <14916.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:15:57 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Have you just set a pan of water on the top of the stove to evaporate? I tested out my humidity level yesterday, and it was 75% in an exclusively wood-heated house with one saucepan constantly on the stove, not boiling. :) If you really want to humidify the house, try boiling down some sap into maple syrup inside. It's to peel wallpaper... -Mryka Re: wood heat --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (433) Mon 5 Dec 94 21:47 By: "Marvin G. Beshirs" To: All Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006ae82 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" @Subject: none @Message-Id: <16506.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 21:47:04 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List After I posted the message about the SunPipe, I noticed that I did not include the regular phone number. The 800 number may just be good in Missouri, so here is the other number 417 276 3841. The address again in case someone missed it. SunPipe RR3-77W Stockton, MO 65785 1 800 707 1226 (May just be local in MO) --May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes! e-mail at mbeshirs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us !Please! To: ae 1 for list Message-Id: @Subject: Re: DOE student research program @Message-Id: <18490.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 22:25:05 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Dear Heather, Im sure that NREL has a Student Research Participation Program. Try calling human resouces office at 303-231-7230. If this number doesnt work, please write back to me (the phone numbers have been changing a lot lately.) Carrie -- Carrie Schneider National Renewable Energy Lab 1617 Cole Boulevard Golden, CO 80401 303-384-6119 Re: DOE student research program --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (435) Mon 5 Dec 94 22:06 By: Harry Groot To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aea0 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Harry Groot @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <17507.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 22:06:23 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List We heat with wood - a masonry heater-...which is actually a backup to the passive solar... but low humidity is a problem in the winter. We will frequently hang clothes indoors to augment the humidity. The shower room intentionally has no vent so the steam will stay inside. We just open the window in the summer!! We leave a pot with water in it on the top of the stove all the time, too. I've never seen a passive solar buiding where additional humidity wasn't needed. That's why most of them have pools, tubs, or some other sort of water source, which is great for storing heat too. Climate control in air tight dwellings is a challenge and requires a lot more day to day (minute-by-minute) management than a well designed passive system, in my experience. Harry@SunriseValley Farm hwgroot@nebula.lib.vt.edu Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (436) Mon 5 Dec 94 22:12 By: Tom Stanton To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Windmill? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aea1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tom Stanton @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Windmill? @Message-Id: <17567.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 22:12:34 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am familiar with a company that is working on systems that intelligently combine wind, solar photovoltaic, and hydrogen (as energy storage, separated via electrolysis of water). Contact Mr. Alex DePillis, Energy Islands International, 111 King St, Madison Wisconsin 53703. Phone 608/284-0700. --Tom Stanton >He is looking for a way to generate electricy. In the past he had a couple of >alternators hooked up to it, but the generation of electricity was >intermittant. I would like to see him build a hydrogen generator and run some >kind of engine with it. Any ideas on how to do that? > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Name: Tom Stanton E-mail: tstanton@great-lakes.net Date: 12/05/94 Voice: 517/334-6264 (work) 517/374-6402 (home) Time: 09:54:14 FAX: 517/882-5170 Postal Mail: Tom Stanton, Michigan PSC, P.O. Box 30221, Lansing MI 48909 Opinions expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- RE: Hydrogen Windmill? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (437) Mon 5 Dec 94 23:00 By: l-debaillie To: All Re: Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aea6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: l-debaillie@CECER.ARMY.MIL @Subject: Re: temp fluctuation in solarium @Message-Id: <19983.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:00:19 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List teeddoug@nbnet.nb.ca (Doug Teed) Wrote: | | I have a 10 x 10 solarium with 30 deg. sloping glass on | top. It can be | isolated from the house by sliding patio door. Problem: | extreme temp fluctu- | ations in summer & winter. Exhaust fan hooked to | thermostat pumps warm air | into basement, which provides some thermal storage. | How can I make the solarium more liveable for me and my | plants? Would a dark | tile floor absorb enough heat to keep the sol. warm at | night during winter? | Typical nighttime temps between Nov.-Mar. are around -10 | to -25 degrees | Celcius. | Could I cover the dark tiles with a white throw rug in | summer to reflect solar | energy? I am also considering installing some type of | shade or blind for the | glass roof which may help shade and insulate. | | I'd appreciate any suggestions or sources for information. | Thanks. | | Doug Teed | The white throw rug will reflect some visible light back out, but most of the infrared light ("heat") will be trapped in your space- probably not very effective. Your best bet for the summer is shading the roof as you suggested. Summer is somewhat easy, just regulate the amount of sunlight you let in. As for winter, a dark tile floor may help, but it needs enough thermal mass behind it to store enough heat to last the night. Your summer blind on the roof in the winter will help prevent the space from re-radiating heat to the cold night sky - you may even want to consider blinds around the entire sunspace. This way, you could regulate the amount of sunlight coming in in the summer, and "trap" the sun's heat in overnight in the winter. However, if your sunspace's windows do not insulate well, there's nothing you can do about the winter heat loss short of replacing the windows with windows of a higher R-value, or using window "insulators" or curtains. Winter's definitely tougher, but essentially you want to let as much light in as possible in the day and then "enclose" the space to prevent heat loss at night through radiation and conduction/convection. Lee DeBaillie re: temp fluctuation in solarium --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (438) Mon 5 Dec 94 23:03 By: Chris Schroeder To: All Re: PV response curves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aea7 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Chris Schroeder @Subject: PV response curves @Message-Id: <20092.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:03:08 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I was wondering if anyone could explain why the response curves for solar cells are limited on the end of higher energy. I know that the lower bound is related to the energy gap of the semiconductor, but I can't find a corresponding explaination for the higher bound. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Chris Schroeder cschroed@willamette.edu PV response curves --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (440) Mon 5 Dec 94 22:48 By: ben To: All Re: Re: FERC??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeae @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ben@pmafire.inel.gov @Subject: Re: FERC??? @Sender: usenet@pmafire.inel.gov (usenet guy) @Message-Id: <1994Dec5.224803.16630@pmafire.inel.gov> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 94 22:48:03 GMT @Reply-To: ben@pmafire.inel.gov In <3bedqa$2cv@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, lgdorsey@unity.ncsu.edu (Lawrence Glenn Dorsey) writes: >Can anyone tell me what the acronym FERC stands for. I cpied the part of >article after they mentioned what it was??? > Federal Energy Reguatory Committee, I believe. Ben Stutzman ben@pmafire.inel.gov --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Idaho N (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (441) Mon 5 Dec 94 22:50 By: ben To: All Re: Re: FERC??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeaf @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ben@pmafire.inel.gov @Subject: Re: FERC??? @Sender: usenet@pmafire.inel.gov (usenet guy) @Message-Id: <1994Dec5.225000.16820@pmafire.inel.gov> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 94 22:50:00 GMT @Reply-To: ben@pmafire.inel.gov In <3bedqa$2cv@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, lgdorsey@unity.ncsu.edu (Lawrence Glenn Dorsey) writes: >Can anyone tell me what the acronym FERC stands for. I cpied the part of >article after they mentioned what it was??? > > Federal Energy Regulatory Committee, I believe Ben Stutzman ben@pmafire.inel.gov --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Idaho N (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (442) Mon 5 Dec 94 23:39 By: Mryka Hall-Beyer To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeb4 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mryka Hall-Beyer @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <22129.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:39:37 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List MW> a high humidity generating shower might be the MW> best thing to have happen in a house if the house were MW> designed so that the moisture (if needed) could be vented MW> throughout the house. Of course, if the climate is very MW> moist and mold is a problem, a vent going outdoors would MW> help, but seems like there might be a way to creatively and MW> beneficially send the fine mist into the sleeping areas. Just plain regular air circulation can help. I've got my bathroom plunk in the middle of a square house. It has a door in the east wall, and a little 18" square opening about 6' off the ground in the west wall. The opening communicates through to just above the fridge in the kitchen, and the door opens next to a bedroom door into a piano room. There is no fan or vent, and the humidity diffuses nicely throughout the house. The house is all open-plan except for bedrooms since it's partially passive solar. Some people object to the peephole, so I've provided louvered shutters to the opening, but hardly ever use them. It's also handy to wing new soap through. A son has also used a hockey stick to fish my towel off the place where I set it while I was in the shower, then insist I must have forgotten to geone out. I caught him red-handed on the fourth trick. But other than that, the vent system works fine. In a more humid climate, we'd probably need a vent too. Having the bathroom in the middle of the house also keeps the plumbing away from the outer walls, meaning I have little to worry about when leaving the house for long time periods in winter, even with only minimal electrci heat backup for the wood stove (two 1000-watt baseboards for a 2200 sq ft house). -Mryka Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (443) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:06 By: ben To: All Re: Re: FERC??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeb7 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ben@PMAFIRE.INEL.GOV @Subject: Re: FERC??? @Message-Id: <23680.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:06:07 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In <3bedqa$2cv@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, lgdorsey@unity.ncsu.edu (Lawrence Glenn Dorsey) writes: >Can anyone tell me what the acronym FERC stands for. I cpied the part of >article after they mentioned what it was??? > Federal Energy Reguatory Committee, I believe. Ben Stutzman ben@pmafire.inel.gov Re: FERC??? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (444) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:09 By: ben To: All Re: Re: FERC??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeb8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ben@PMAFIRE.INEL.GOV @Subject: Re: FERC??? @Message-Id: <23718.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:09:40 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In <3bedqa$2cv@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, lgdorsey@unity.ncsu.edu (Lawrence Glenn Dorsey) writes: >Can anyone tell me what the acronym FERC stands for. I cpied the part of >article after they mentioned what it was??? > > Federal Energy Regulatory Committee, I believe Ben Stutzman ben@pmafire.inel.gov Re: FERC??? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (445) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:15 By: Brendan A Niemira To: All Re: PV that imitates photosynthesis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeb9 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Brendan A Niemira @Subject: PV that imitates photosynthesis @Message-Id: <24162.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:15:44 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Ross M Donald wrote: > I'm not sure about the Argonne support, which would > be an outrage, in and of itself, for this pie in the sky; > but I do wonder about letting the happy talk about "70% > efficiency" persist. As I recall, he was saying 80% > last Spring! > > This is the solar version of electricity to cheap to > meter! Meanwhile, what we have, becomes obsolete... > > =>"Rooftop photovoltaic plants may get more economical. > =>Using a new kind of solar technology that imitates > =>photosynthesis, researchers at Advanced Research > =>Development in Massachusetts have developed Lumeloid, > =>a light-sensitive film. It can be rolled like plastic > =>wrap, sold inexpensively in hardware stores, and > =>installed easily by consumers. The company began a > =>three-year, $1.8-million project with the Argonne > =>National Laboratory to develop the product. If it > =>works, the film may be able to convert sunlight into > =>electricity at 70-percent efficiency." > => I read about this a few years ago. Photosynthetic light capturing molecules (generally tetrapyrole rings with some kind of electron delocalizer atom like Mg in the center) are very effective at turning light into chemical energy by setting up charged molecules or creating high-energy bonds (ATP, NADH, NADPH, etc). The big problem with transferring this kind of an approach to PV, i.e. big complex organic molecules as opposed to inorganic crystals, is that those big complex organic molecules are constantly being regerated and replaced by the plants. If you interfere with this process, the rings degrade, the molecules fall apart, and light-gathering stops (photo-bleaching). When last I heard about this kind of PV film, they suffered serious performance degredation after a year or two. Have they since been able to stabilize the organic molecules to prevent the degradation/renewal cycle? I would of course never say that Mother Nature has got it all already figured out, but I'd be curious to know how they got around this problem. Brendan A. Niemira niemirab@student.msu.edu Dept. Botany and Plant Pathology Michigan State University PV that imitates photosynthesis R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (446) Mon 5 Dec 94 23:46 By: E. Michael Smith To: All Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aeba @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ems@cygnus.com (E. Michael Smith) @Subject: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? @Message-Id: @Sender: news@cygnus.com Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:46:28 GMT In article dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) writes: >DF 2 and #2 heating oil are the same "fraction" as I recall, and have the >same general physical properties, including allowable sulpher of 0.5%. In California, our 'New' diesel has a lower spec for allowed sulpher... -- E. Michael Smith Manager of Stuff Cygnus Support --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Cygnus (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (447) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:33 By: JOHN W DAILEY To: All Re: Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aebc @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: JOHN W DAILEY @Subject: Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) @Message-Id: <25038.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:33:47 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Yes, please do keep us posted on ice and snow bu7ildup effects on your wind generator's prop. Our Whisper 1000 seems to shed ice and snow fairly soon after our Chinook winds start blowing, with little vibration noticed. Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (448) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:36 By: JOHN W DAILEY To: All Re: Re: Signing Off Folks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aebd @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: JOHN W DAILEY @Subject: Re: Signing Off Folks @Message-Id: <25346.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:36:28 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Whew... Re: Signing Off Folks --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (449) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:55 By: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aebf @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <26032.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:55:16 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil What needs rethinking is your attitude after you've made the 3 AM dash to the outhouse through the snow or rain a few times. If you were pregnant or had diareha, you might change your mind more quickly. Of course, you could empty the chanmber pot yourself every day. Heating water on a stove and taking a shower or bath in the kitchen might give yo a different perspective also. Bob --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** > I am concerned that they incorporated three (3) bathrooms in a four bedroom > home. I too haK e been wondering when the ecology of the indoors is going to take a stand: the place for plumbing is outadoors. Why go to all the trouble of making a nice warm dry weather-tight house and then put a high-humidity-generating shower et cetera in the middle? sounds like rethinking time to me. Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (450) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:58 By: "E. Michael Smith" To: All Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aec0 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "E. Michael Smith" @Subject: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? @Message-Id: <26323.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:58:59 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In article dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) writes: >DF 2 and #2 heating oil are the same "fraction" as I recall, and have the >same general physical properties, including allowable sulpher of 0.5%. In California, our 'New' diesel has a lower spec for allowed sulpher... -- E. Michael Smith Manager of Stuff Cygnus Support Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (451) Mon 5 Dec 94 19:55 By: MShadowfax To: All Re: Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aec1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mshadowfax@aol.com (MShadowfax) @Subject: Re: suntube Date: 5 Dec 1994 19:55:20 -0500 @Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com @Message-Id: <3c0cpo$915@newsbf01.news.aol.com> In article <22973.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu>, "Marvin G. Beshirs" writes: "I have been corresponding with Marge and we seem to agree that I should post this to the list. So, here goes. I saw an advertisement in a paper from the coop where we get our electricity provided. The ad says no electricity is needed to light your house or at least a particular area. Use in new construction, add ons, studies, retrofitting and whatever. "Super reflective Surface. Diffuser dome lights entire room. New!!" I've read about these and had a chance to see them "demonstrated" last week. They work well - provided you have a south or near-south exposure to the daily sunshine. They DO NOT work at night! There is no light source, etc. in there. It is simply a mirrored pipe to a domed reflector mounted on your roof. They reduce your daily energy consumption by negating the need for using electric lights during the day. They seem ideally suited for rooms with few or poorly-oriented/blocked windows, but they're not the Answer to all your power problems by any stretch of the imagination. Shadowfax --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]America (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (452) Tue 6 Dec 94 1:43 By: JOHN APPLETON To: All Re: Unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aec8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: JOHN APPLETON @Subject: Unsubscribe @Message-Id: <28398.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 01:43:31 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Please unsubscribe me from the Alternative Energy list. Thank, John Appleton 74721.3634@compuserve.com appletm6@spanky.badm.scarolina.edu Unsubscribe --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (453) Tue 6 Dec 94 2:23 By: MShadowfax To: All Re: Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aecb @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: MShadowfax @Subject: Re: suntube @Message-Id: <543.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:23:29 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In article <22973.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu>, "Marvin G. Beshirs" writes: "I have been corresponding with Marge and we seem to agree that I should post this to the list. So, here goes. I saw an advertisement in a paper from the coop where we get our electricity provided. The ad says no electricity is needed to light your house or at least a particular area. Use in new construction, add ons, studies, retrofitting and whatever. "Super reflective Surface. Diffuser dome lights entire room. New!!" I've read about these and had a chance to see them "demonstrated" last week. They work well - provided you have a south or near-south exposure to the daily sunshine. They DO NOT work at night! There is no light source, etc. in there. It is simply a mirrored pipe to a domed reflector mounted on your roof. They reduce your daily energy consumption by negating the need for using electric lights during the day. They seem ideally suited for rooms with few or poorly-oriented/blocked windows, but they're not the Answer to all your power problems by any stretch of the imagination. Shadowfax Re: suntube --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (454) Tue 6 Dec 94 2:27 By: Malcolm Sanders To: All Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aecc @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Malcolm Sanders @Subject: none @Message-Id: <638.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:27:10 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > Greetings earthlings and humanoid creatures, etc., etc. Will the real Lee Butler please stand up? --- -Malcolm M. Sanders (physicist at large) \|/ ........ P.O. Box 8155 - o - ( ( ). Ellsworth, Maine 04605 /\ /|\ (... ) ...) /\/^^\ (.....) email: mms@jax.org / \/\ phone: (207)667-2669 ^^^^^ / \^^^^^^^^^ *ACADIA* ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  NO SUBJECT --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (455) Tue 6 Dec 94 2:43 By: James VanBokkelen To: All Re: Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aecd @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: jbvb@elf.com (James VanBokkelen) @Subject: Re: Trace Inverter cold feet Date: 6 Dec 1994 02:43:39 GMT @Message-Id: <3c0j4r$cda@satisfied.elf.com> Ian.Woofenden@p3.f525.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ian Woofenden) writes: >But you're absolutely right, of course, that the cold has a very big >effect on the efficiency of batteries. It's amazing (depressing) how >much more I have to run the gen when it's cold. My battery-box hot-air collector (built around a 34"x76" double-pane door glazing unit w/12v circulating fan on its own PV panel) seems to be working. It's got the box (in unheated barn space) at about 62F right now, which is probably 10F warmer than this time last year. More reports as we get into January & February. -- James B. VanBokkelen Far Acres Farm jbvb@{vax.ftp.com, asylum.sf.ca.us} South Hampton, NH --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Elf Com (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (456) Tue 6 Dec 94 2:52 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: PV that imitates photosynthesis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aecf @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: PV that imitates photosynthesis @Message-Id: <1954.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:52:07 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I called the ARgonne National Lab today and they are sending me the descriptive literature. They are contracting with a firm in Mass. to manufacture the PV film and hope to be marketing it in a year or two. When I get the print stuff I will tell everyone about it. Why don't we wait and see if it works? Personally, I hope it will because I plan to cover several windows with it in the wintertime or some such thing. Mryka and whoever else I am forgetting, those are nifty comments about bathroom humidity. We do not use a dryer but hang our wet laundry on folding drying racks and set them in front of heat vents, unless the weather is nice enough to hang them outside on the clothesline which we usually do. Marge RE: PV that imitates photosynthesis --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (458) Tue 6 Dec 94 2:54 By: Ted Belcer To: All Re: ego freeks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aed1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ted Belcer @Subject: ego freeks @Message-Id: <2326.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:54:32 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Date sent: 5-DEC-1994 20:44:38 Lighten up and drink more beer ego freeks --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (459) Tue 6 Dec 94 2:56 By: Ted Belcer To: All Re: signoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aed2 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ted Belcer @Subject: signoff @Message-Id: <2366.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 02:56:49 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Date sent: 5-DEC-1994 20:46:54 Signoff AE signoff --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (460) Tue 6 Dec 94 3:07 By: "Robert Chisick (Volt Computer)" To: All Re: Lee Butler ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aed4 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Robert Chisick (Volt Computer)" @Subject: Lee Butler @Message-Id: <2893.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 03:07:17 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Do you think he ran out of prozac? -robert Lee Butler --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (461) Tue 6 Dec 94 3:09 By: John HC To: All Re: Re: FERC??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aed5 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: John HC @Subject: Re: FERC??? @Message-Id: <3199.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 03:09:56 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Federal Energy Regulatory Commission One of the more bloated, least useful regulatory agencies in the Federal Government of the United States, it is. Dealt with them for almost a year trying to get them to punish a hydropower operator who drained the river dry on five occasions in as many months, only to have them admit (based on the video and photographic evidence) that the dam operator had violated all established agreements but acknowledge that the dam operator had an economic need to do so. John H-C Re: FERC??? R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (463) Tue 6 Dec 94 0:52 By: Brian McMinn To: All Re: Re: LED Lighting Efficiency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aed7 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: brian@positron.amd.com (Brian McMinn) @Subject: Re: LED Lighting Efficiency @Message-Id: @Sender: news@txnews.amd.com Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 00:52:14 GMT Kendall Willets wrote: > After the earlier thread about LED flashlights, I checked the Radio > Shack catalog for specs on their LEDs. One thing that struck me, after > I did a few calculations, was that the efficiency of their 5-candle LED > is quite high. Normally 100 lumens/watt is considered good for a > fluorescent lamp, but I got a figure of over 1600 lumens/watt for the > LED! The efficiency of LED's has been going up steadily over the past few years. It was only recently, though, that generic LED's surpassed the efficiency of incandescent bulbs. I think it was Spectrum (from IEEE) where I recently read an article on LED's for general illumination. I'll look it up if anyone requests. Brian McMinn brian.mcminn@amd.com --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Advance (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (464) Tue 6 Dec 94 3:24 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aed8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: suntube @Message-Id: <3965.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 03:24:55 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Well, it's always good to hear from someone who has seen the real thing..... Marge Re: suntube --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (466) Tue 6 Dec 94 4:34 By: Lim Lian Hoon To: All Re: Re: Hydrogen Windmill? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aee1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lim Lian Hoon @Subject: Re: Hydrogen Windmill? @Message-Id: <7515.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 04:34:28 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Fri, 2 Dec 1994 10:08:49 PST, (Andrew Cook) jaring!bangate.pge.com!DCPP!NBFM! ALC8 wrote: > > I have an inventor friend who some years ago made a "Portugues Jib Windmill". > It consists of a number of sails strung up in a 8foot circular frame that > looks a bit like a wagon wheel. The outide diameter of the wheel has a groove > for a belt and can turn things very fast. He claims it will generate about 10 > horsepower in a 10mph wind, and that it will turn the same direction no matter > which way the wind is blowing. > 8 ft dia. rotor + 10 mph wind = 10 horsepower ????????? Without wishing to be rude, these numbers indicate that the law of conservation of momentum has been broken. I think such discoveries are usually rewarded by a Nobel prize in physics. For your info, the classical physics that govern wind power give the following relationship between power, windspeed and area : P = 0.5 * rho * A * u^3 * Cp where P = power in watts rho = density of air (1.225 kg/m^3) A = cross sectional area u = windspeed in m/s Cp = power coefficient, max. value 0.593 (known as the Betz limit) Punching nos. gives P = 151 W or slightly over 1/5 hp. LLH Re: Hydrogen Windmill? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (468) Tue 6 Dec 94 5:52 By: Larry London To: All Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aee8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: london@sunsite.unc.edu (Larry London) @Subject: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) Date: 6 Dec 1994 05:52:36 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <9412060446.AA25391@sunsite.oit.unc.edu> ------- start of forwarded message ------- >From: jdjensen@eos.ncsu.edu (Joshua David Jensen) Newsgroups: triangle.general Subject: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? Date: 30 Nov 1994 19:19:34 GMT Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos I'm thinking about modifying my car engine to burn natural gas, or alcohol. Does anyone know if there are places to buy these, or other alternative fuels, around here? Thanks... Info on alternative fuel modification would be also appreciated. Thanks... -- _____ _____ ( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ ) | / | Joshua David Jensen | \ | | / | at North Carolina State University | \ | | / | jdjensen@eos.ncsu.edu | \ | | / | (919) 755-9299 | \ | (_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_ ____) ------- end of forwarded message ------- --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]SunSITE (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (470) Tue 6 Dec 94 7:13 By: hochman To: All Re: alcohol fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006aef6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: hochman @Subject: alcohol fuel @Message-Id: <11986.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 07:13:19 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I recently heard from a well known expert on automobile technologies that alcohol based fuels are impractical since alcohol is highly hydrophilic (water absorbing). He said that every test program so far has been scrapped due to rusting gas tanks, fuel lines etc. All stainless steel parts would be needed. Does anybody have any ideas concerning this? John H. alcohol fuel --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (471) Tue 6 Dec 94 9:05 By: John van Roosmalen To: All Re: Re: Photovoltaic wrap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006af00 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: John van Roosmalen @Subject: Re: Photovoltaic wrap @Message-Id: <14420.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 09:05:59 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List A message from the Netherlands, There were recently some messages about the Argonne/ARDI collaboration on organic, flexible photovoltaic solar cells. At the Netherlands Energy Research Foundation we are interested in organic photovoltaic solar cells. That is why I have read something about it. There was an article on it in the New Scientist, vol. 143, pag. 21, 20-08-1994. There is also a press release on the Argonne Home Page on internet. According to me this could be a very powerful development, for the future. As far as I know, no actual high efficient devices have been made yet. The point I would like to comment on is the efficiencies that are mentioned here and there. The 99% efficiency is an internal quantum efficiency. The organic molecules can turn 99% of the incedent light (within a certain wavelength band) into charge carriers. In silicon solar cells these high internal quantum efficiencies are also obtained. The point is how this internal quantum efficiency can be translated into electricity, giving the overall solar cell efficiency. For silicon solar cells the record is about 24%. Argonne/ARDI might consider themselves lucky if they would obtain device efficiencies above 10%. Up to now the efficiency for organic solar cells was limited to 2%. There recently has been another development in 'organic' solar cells, initiated by prof.dr. M. Gr=84tzel, from EPFL, Lausanne. His group uses a dye which could be an organic molecule, but in this case is an organo-metallic compound, containing ruthenium. This dye is absorbed to a titanium dioxide semiconductor. The point is that the semiconductor has a surface enlargement of about 1000 times. It is built up from 10 nanometer size particles. With this technology on a laboratory scale efficiencies above 10% have been obtained (with quantum efficiencies of 99%). The problem with this technology is the use of a liquid electrolyte, and the long-term stability of the dye (and the electrolyte). Because the Argonne/ARDI concept is an all-solid device, this might be very promissing. I hope that I was able to throw some indecent (sorry, incedent) light on this conversation. John ------------------------------------------ Dr. J.A.M. van Roosmalen Netherlands Energy Research Foundation ECN ECN Renewable Energy Solar Energy vanroosmalen@ecn.nl ------------------------------------------ Re: Photovoltaic wrap --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (472) Tue 6 Dec 94 11:47 By: Mr RJH Paynter To: All Re: Icing on windmill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006af1a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mr RJH Paynter @Subject: Icing on windmill @Message-Id: <18079.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 11:47:09 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List BOB KELLAND Wrote on: Subject: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) I am observing how a small tiltback windmill reacts to snow and ice build-up on the blades. The present temperature is -2 C. The question now is what will happen as the snow and ice is shed from the blades (vibration??). Will post another note on the outcome. {------------------------------------------------------------------- There have been a few studies on this in Europe and generally they found a loss of peformance but no great problems with vibrations. Perhaps when the machine unbalances due to losing a few bits of ice it does vibrate thus helping the rest detatch. I suspect the Icing could get so bad that there will not be enough torque to turn the turbine then you'll just have to wait for the thaw - bad for your availability statistics. It's too mild in English winters for Ice to be a problem, at least I hope so because it would damage my instrumentation. Looking out for further news Robert Paynter Wind Turbine Aero Experimenter Effects of Windmill Blade Icing (Preliminary) Icing on windmill --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (473) Tue 6 Dec 94 13:24 By: Bob Myers To: All Re: "CALCULATES VIOLARTOR'S ECONOMIC BENEFITS FROM NONCOMPLIANCE" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006af1c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Bob Myers @Subject: "CALCULATES VIOLARTOR'S ECONOMIC BENEFITS FROM NONCOMPLIANCE" @Message-Id: <22490.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 13:24:30 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I received a postcard advertisement for "COMPLIANCE SOFTWEARE DIRECTLY FROM THE EPA" from Machalec Communicatons, Inc. NTIS Order Dept., 1401 West 76th St, Minneapolis MN 55423. The text contained the following: " Source: Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Enforcement Summmary: The model calculates the ecomonic benefit that a company gains by delaying payment necessary for compliance with environmental regulations or permits. While the primary purpose of the BEN Model is to calculate the economic benefit of EPA regulation NONCOMPLIANCE ..." Capitalization of the word "noncompliance" is mine. Questions: 1. Why should it be economically advantageous to not comply with regulations? 2. Why is the EPA telling people that? 3. Why is my tax money going towards a project like this? 4. Why is some company receiving $148.00 per copy for something my tax dollars paid for the development of? Bob "CALCULATES VIOLARTOR'S ECONOMIC BENEFITS FROM NONCOMPLIANCE" --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (476) Tue 6 Dec 94 14:00 By: "James W. Swonger" To: All Re: Re: AE Digest - 4 Dec 1994 to 5 Dec 1994 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006af23 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "James W. Swonger" @Subject: Re: AE Digest - 4 Dec 1994 to 5 Dec 1994 @Message-Id: <24214.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:00:36 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List If you look at suppliers of auto racing aftermarket equipment, you can find fuel cells (gas tanks) made of plastic, stainless steel fuel lines, carburetors specifically for alcohol, and all of the other paraphernalia required to run alcohol fuels, because that's exactly what several classes of NHRA do. Re: AE Digest - 4 Dec 1994 to 5 Dec 1994 --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (477) Tue 6 Dec 94 14:22 By: "Marvin G. Beshirs" To: All Re: Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006af2f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" @Subject: Re: suntube @Message-Id: <25201.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:22:10 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From the advertisement and what I have read elsewhere, I would agree completely with you. Thanks for bringing out this point. It should definitively be in addition to some sort of regular lighting system. This is just to cut down the electrical consumption during the day. It looks like in the ad, the tube comes down through the roof and ceiling and would help where a window is small or in a bad direction. --May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes! e-mail at mbeshirs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us !Please! On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, MShadowfax wrote: > In article <22973.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu>, "Marvin G. Beshirs" > writes: > > "I have been corresponding with Marge and we seem to agree that I should > post this to the list. So, here goes. I saw an advertisement in a > paper from the coop where we get our electricity provided. The ad says > no electricity is needed to light your house or at least a particular > area. > Use in new construction, add ons, studies, retrofitting and whatever. > > > > "Super reflective Surface. > Diffuser dome lights entire room. > New!!" > > > > I've read about these and had a chance to see them "demonstrated" > last week. They work well - provided you have a south or near-south > exposure to the daily sunshine. They DO NOT work at night! There is no > light source, etc. in there. It is simply a mirrored pipe to a domed > reflector mounted on your roof. They reduce your daily energy consumption > by negating the need for using electric lights during the day. They seem > ideally suited for rooms with few or poorly-oriented/blocked windows, but > they're not the Answer to all your power problems by any stretch of the > imagination. > > Shadowfax > > > Re: suntube > Re: suntube R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (479) Tue 6 Dec 94 14:41 By: Chris Beatty To: All Re: Re: FERC??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006af31 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Chris Beatty @Subject: Re: FERC??? @Message-Id: <26272.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 14:41:47 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I believe FERC stands for Federal Energy Regulatory "Commission" as opposed to "Committee". Details, details. :) Chris Beatty Ecopress 74451.74@compuserve.com Re: FERC??? R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (482) Tue 6 Dec 94 7:34 By: Fritz Oppliger To: Ian Woofenden Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 86bd543c IW>It's not the inverter's fault. It's your *batteries*. They are cold, IW>not as efficient when cold, they are not charged enough, and the IW>inverter is shutting down to protect them. Happens all the time IW>around here, since we tend to be running close to the wire on power IW>in the cold dark winter. Yabut, the voltage never drops below 12 and it always starts up without complaint. Seems like COLD is doing it: it will cut out / slumber off even when the batteries are relatively full, and NOT do it when they are empty but the weather is just a wee bit warmer (still cold but not COLD). Maybe time to make some more scientifgic measurements of COLD eh? Thanx- Fritz --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (483) Tue 6 Dec 94 13:15 By: Jim Bilderback To: Ian Woofenden Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 86bdf469 IW> On (30 Nov 94) Jim Bilderback wrote to All... > > JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would > JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. > > JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle > JB> and not sweat too much? > > Enough to run the TV . Thanx for the feedback Ian ... > > Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 > pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 > S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. > looks about 70 watts PPP (peak pedaler power) per person. I think i saw this running at the North Country Faire in Arcata late summer. They were making some contribution to an electric band. > I scanned the TOC of the last 6 or 8 issues and didn't see anything > else. But I know there have been other article on pedal power in the > past year or so. Maybe someone has an index of HP handy. Also, I'm > pretty sure there was an ad for a single person pedal-powered unit > for sale in one or more of the back issues. > > The back issues of HP are well worth owning, IMO, providing a > liberal education on the subject. > > I think HP is at the library and will look into the back issues on CD when i get a player. thanx again ... jb * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (484) Tue 6 Dec 94 13:27 By: Jim Bilderback To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 86bd746b EH> -> Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially mo > power > -> .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. > > Your milage may vary..... I really wanted to run a 12 volt 9 in > but I aint mean enough...... > I see what you mean. You might have to settle for one of the little LCD wrist type TVs. Somewhat related: It's pretty amazing how little power it takes to move a person and bicycle along at 10mph! (if it's on the order of 10 watts or so) * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (491) Tue 6 Dec 94 13:43 By: Gale Barrows To: E. Michael Smith Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: >I've recently come across this recipe for alternative diesel fuel, and wonder >if anyone can give me some more info about it. > >Ingredients: Vegetable oil (can be used oil, if filtered) > Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) > Methanol EM>Yes, this is right and it works. I did it with Soybean oil. >1. Mix oil with 15% methanol and 0.5% lye. Heat on a stove and stir >constantly, without letting the mixture boil, for 40 mins. EM>I used 19% methanol and 1% lye (dry) by weight. I also did not use EM>any heat (72 F room temp) and let it sit about 1 hour after stirring. EM>Worked OK. Why was the lye used? When i was in the military, we used an engine (built by Lycoming ?) in our 2 1/2 ton trucks that could use vegetable cooking oil as a fuel, straight. It also could use gasoline, diesel, peanut oil, soybean oil, diesel, jet fuel and many other flammable liquids. I have often wondered why that technology has not been further developed and applied to smaller civillian vehicles and equipment. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (492) Tue 6 Dec 94 13:50 By: Gale Barrows To: McBeath Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <3avgv7$488@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> M>can you use furnace oil straight in a diesal engine? (heating oil is M>a lot cheaper here due to tax reasons). M>i've been told you can, but of course very few people are willing to M>commit an answer due to the legalities involved with taxes.... Several years ago when the tax procedures were simpler, it was common to interchange diesel fuel and heating oil, at least for use in heating systems and agricultural use engines. (Of course at that time taxes paid on diesel were refunded quickly by the simple filing of a 1/2 page statement/form.) Heating fuel worked as well as diesel in engines and diesel fuel worked as well in the furnace. It is still common to use diesel fuel antigel products mixed into the heating oil where the heating oil storage tank is outside the house. Yes, I have outside stored heating oil (even special cold weather blends) gel sdo that the fuel would not flow to the furnace. In fact, that is why I now use propane for heat. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (493) Tue 6 Dec 94 14:00 By: Gale Barrows To: McBeath Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <3avgv7$488@sol.sun.csd.unb.ca> M>can you use furnace oil straight in a diesal engine? (heating oil is M>a lot cheaper here due to tax reasons). M>i've been told you can, but of course very few people are willing to M>commit an answer due to the legalities involved with taxes.... extra reply There must be some compatibility in the fuels as used today since there is a dye added to the non-road taxed fuels. If a highway user is found with dyed fuel in his tanks he is being fined for either/or having high sulphur fuel (allowed in some areas for heating) or untaxed low sulphur fuel being used for highway fuel. I know of a couple highway user groups who have been adding dyes or other colored additives to their fuel and then challenging the feds to test the fuel or otherwise prove that the fuel in their tanks is not legal or has not had the proper taxes paid on it. This is being done primarily to chasllenge enforcement of what they feel are stupid sulphur reduction requirements on a nation wide basis. Politics aside, the fuels must be at least basicly interchangeable or the dye would not be required. BTW- I have adopted the old practice of adding a galon or so of #2 diesel to every other tank of gasoline to improve engine lubrication. In the days of less than 100,000 miles accumulating before an engine overhaul was needed, this adding of diesel helped stretch miles before overhaul as much as 50%. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (494) Sun 4 Dec 94 0:09 By: Larry Kessler To: John Draper Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: BWMAX2 3.05d Beta [Reg] @MSGID: 1:106/31.0 2ee3bd3d Computer, play back the log of John Draper's post to William Stroud on 28 Nov 94 10:51:01: JD> I have to dig out my Amateur Radio Handbook to find the formula for JD> converting frequency to wavelegth for the exact length. A half-wave dipole is calculated as: 468/f where f is MHz (frequency) and the quotient (468/f) is expressed in feet. ... 73 de WB8JEL - just 15 months short of QCWA! (Egad!) --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 OS/2 [NR] * Origin: PIC of the MID Town OS/2 BBS (713) 961-5817 (1:106/31) @PATH: 106/31 993 888 116 170/400 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (496) Mon 5 Dec 94 17:55 By: Russ Williams To: ELVIS HARGROVE Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- While on stage at Woodstock, Elvis Hargrove shouted thusly about Re: Crystal Radio Light, Hi Elvis, EH> And the D*log square losses eat up 99.9 % of what's sent. EH> Each radio absorbs about a mosquito's worth of a hurricane. I hear that.. -> I just read a biography of Tesla, which is what got me wondering. EH> Amazin' man wasn't he? Substantially ahead of his time, EH> though he DID have some rather unpractical ideas. (This train of EH> thought among 'em.) I recently built a five foot version of his famous coil; It really blows people away when I hold a neon tube or a fluorescent tube in my bare hand a few feet away and it lights up. It also fills the garage with ozone. EH> 'Ferinstance, the XERF station had an ERP of 1 MILLION watts. The EH> loudest AM broadcast stations in the US are 100Kw MAX. Reduces the EH> local field strength a LOT. Man, Old engines, motorcycles, Nik Tesla,...we're not related are we? hehe TTYL Russ KB6JNM ... At the center of the earth, which way is down? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- EzyQwk V1.10g2 06fa0007 * Origin: YOUR BBS, Sacramento, ca 916-448-5840 (1:203/9264) @PATH: 203/9264 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (497) Mon 28 Nov 94 20:58 By: Grant Farrington To: DALEXAN Re: AN OPEN LETTER TO THE NAY ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Dalexan@ix.netcom.com to All <=- Da> From: dalexan@ix.netcom.com (marty d'alexander) Da> Date: 25 Nov 1994 18:21:58 GMT Da> Organization: Netcom Da> To the Naysayers: Da> I'm tired of reading that you need hard, tangible, Da> in-your-face evidence before you will believe the UFO phenomenon, Well said ! The FNB'ing skeptics have as a big a mental problem as the FTB's. Cheers, ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- EzyQwk V1.10g2 03fa0067 # Origin: Wild Magic BBS Hervey Bay Qld OZ (3:640/201.3) @GPTH: 640/201 217 382/502 @GATE: 1:382/502.0@fidonet 2ee50d2e * Origin: FidoNet <-> PODNet EchoGate! (1:382/502.0) @PATH: 382/502 91 90 92 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (498) Mon 28 Nov 94 21:14 By: Grant Farrington To: UTFP48A Re: Re: Maybe We need a chang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Utfp48a@prodigy.com to All <=- Ut> Maybe you need to understand religion and have faith in it. It's Ut> people like you with the thoughts you have that will destroy the good Ut> in all of us. Science has not been there for mankind, but God has. Evil Ut> will always be here to tempt us, you have to have faith in God in order Ut> to see results that science can't prove. I have seen and experienced Ut> results of belief and faith in God. He is there, he has created us. Ut> Have faith. I do not have all of the answers to life, creation, and Ut> God. There are a lot of questions that need answers, but the key word Ut> here is FAITH. Faith in a loving god in an insane world ? Take off those glasses pal & have a good look around & tell me again a caring loving super-being is running things. Tell me what is your gods excuse for the incomprehensible-till-you've-experienced-it evil that occurs every nanosecond ? Take your feeble deity fixation delusions somewhere more appropriate. There's enough delusions here already, ones just a little less ridiculous than yours. :-) ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- EzyQwk V1.10g2 03fa0067 # Origin: Wild Magic BBS Hervey Bay Qld OZ (3:640/201.3) @GPTH: 640/201 217 382/502 @GATE: 1:382/502.0@fidonet 2ee50d2e * Origin: FidoNet <-> PODNet EchoGate! (1:382/502.0) @PATH: 382/502 91 90 92 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (499) Wed 7 Dec 94 8:40 By: Arlo Hagler To: Jim Bilderback Re: Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle JB> and not sweat too much? Enough to run the TV . Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119..." There was an article in HP about a pedal-powered unit, based on a Sears excercise bike, claiming 3 amps @12vdc. I don't remember the issue #, unfortunately, but I believe it came out in 1990. Happy hunting. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (500) Wed 7 Dec 94 8:46 By: Arlo Hagler To: E. Michael Smith Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I recently heard, on the radio, an account of a group of women who did a cross-country trip in a Volvo diesel, powered by recycled veg. oil. They made an arrangement w/ a chain of burger franchises, to pick up their used oil. They processed it on-site, I believe, a matter of filtering and adding lye. Now, that's recycling! --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (501) Wed 7 Dec 94 8:53 By: Arlo Hagler To: Jim Bilderback Re: Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "...Also, I'm > pretty sure there was an ad for a single person pedal-powered unit > for sale in one or more of the back issues." Also, Real Goods has (had?) an kit for sale, to convert a bicycle. I haven't seen their sourcebook in a while, but maybe they can still get 'em. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (502) Wed 7 Dec 94 17:26 By: Randy Baer To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:209/319.0 2ee660db EH> Amazin' man wasn't he? Substantially ahead of his time, EH> though he DID have some rather unpractical ideas. (This train of EH> thought among 'em.) EH> 'Ferinstance, the XERF station had an ERP of 1 MILLION watts. The BUT WE MUST REMEMBER THAT ERP IS EFFECTIVE RADIATED POWER. AM STATION GIVEN ALOT OF HEIGHT ON SOME OF THOSE TOWERS COULD GET TO A MILLION OR AT LEAST UNTIL THE FCC FOUND OUT. THEN AGAIN THE PWR BRAGGED BY THE STATION ARE THERE ERP WATTS. MOST FROM A 2KW TRANSMITTER AND A TALL ANTENNA.. EH> loudest AM broadcast stations in the US are 100Kw MAX. Reduces the EH> local field strength a LOT. EH> ^..^ EH> -!- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' EH> ! Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) ... Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon? --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: Henderson Public Libraries (1:209/319) @PATH: 209/319 770 720 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (536) Wed 7 Dec 94 16:53 By: Ron Adams To: ALL Re: "Immunizations" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:264/314@FIDOnet 00018AA3 @PID: VFIDO 7.00.01 @INTL 1:264/300 1:264/314 The following letter was submitted to the editor the the Jackson Citizen Patriot in Jackson, Michigan on 12/7/94. Thought it would be interesting to most. My compliments to the Jackson Citizen Patriot for finally getting it right! Your recent articles, including December 5th, about the "soaring" immunization rates in Jackson County school kids have contained complete information. Without any prompting, you let us all know that our kids need to have signed waivers on file with their schools if their parents have chosen no to immunize them. I wish we could say that much about our school and health department officials. The State of Michigan, in it's "wisdom," has decided to withhold funding from schools that have fewer than 95% of their students either im- munized or exempted from immunizations. As a result, the schools and health department are falling all over themselves to comply. As they should--it's the law. However, they misinform parents that their only option is to im- munize. They should also let them know that there is an exemption out there they can use to comply with the law. It is the parents' choice. Most parents have no idea that they have that right. Many parents do not want their chil- dren immunized for various reasons. However, they are quietly hustled into immunizing their children because they are not provided the inforamtion that they have a choice. Immunizations are not without risk. Jackson County children have been seriously injured or maimed by vaccines over the years because they received a mandated immunization without the knowledge of an exemption. There is a medical exemption, an religious exemption and an exemption for other objections. There is nothing more despicable that school officials, doctors, nurses, and public health officials promoting mandatory immunizations without educating parents about their right to choose not to immunize their children. The shame is you will very rarely be asked if you have a religious or other ob- jection. You are lead to believe there is only one choice--immunize. What you don't know makes things less complicated for the officials. If you don't want to immunize your children, take precautions. Ask your doctor to do a complete exam on your child before he or shee administers the vaccines. This would rule out any medical problems that would contraindi- cate your child receiving a vaccine. Ask your doctor if he or she uses the DPT or the combined DPTH shot. The latter includes a hepatitis vaccine. The "P" part of the shot, pertussis or whooping cough, is the most reactive or risky vaccine administered in the United States. It is possible for your child to receive only a DT (diptheria and tetanus) shot if you choose not to have the pertussis vaccine administered. As required by law, make sure your doctor completely explains the risks and posssible side effects of the vaccines before administering the shots. Ask to see the information sheet included with each container of vaccine so that you can read it. Make sure that your doctor does not have a "hot lot" of either DPT or DPTH on his shelf. A "hot lot" or batch of vaccine is one that has higher reports of injuries and deaths than other batches of vaccine as reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). VAERS is the agency to which your doctor is required by law to report adverse ractions to vaccines. If your doctor refuses to report an adverse reaction in your child, then you, as a parent, have the right to re- port it. Make sure the vaccine lot numbers used for your child are written down in your child's records and also give to you for reference. If your doctor uses the DPTH vaccine, make sure he does not use vaccine from the six-digit lot numbers which start with any of the f following three digits: 358; 360; 366; 369; or 372. If your doctor uses the DPT vaccine, make sure he does not use any from the following lot numbers: 3-C-51020; 3-C-51043; 4-K-51154; 3-E-51112; 3-F-51124; 3-M-41116; or 2-M-31091. Your doctor may not even know what lots are on his shelf. Be informed and ask questions. Know the possible side effects and reactions. Monitor your child for several weeks after a vaccination for pos- sible reactions. Make sure that you know everything you need to know to make a responsible choice. We need safer vaccines, better doctor-reporting of vac- cine reactions to the appropriate agencies and continued education of parents to know what the vaccine reactions are and to report them. The above lot numbers were provided by the National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC). The NVIC is a national, non-profit, education organization dedicated to preventing vaccine injuries and deaths through public education. The organization was founded in 1982 by parents in the Washington, DC area and represents vaccine consumers and health care providers, including paretns whose children were injured or died following vaccination. NVIC supports the right of American consumers to make informed, independent vaccination decisions for themselves and their children. Write to the NVIC at 512 W. Maple Avenue, #206, Vienna VA 22180 or call 1-800-909-SHOT or 1-703-938-DPT3. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- VFIDO 7.00.01 * Origin: The Binary Illusion (1:264/314) @PATH: 264/314 300 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (540) Thu 8 Dec 94 13:39 By: Arlo Hagler To: Utfp48A Re: Re: Maybe We need a chang ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thus spake Utfp48A@Prodigy.Com : ".....will always be here to tempt us, you have to have faith in God in order Ut> to see results that science can't prove. I have seen and experienced Ut> results of belief and faith ......" Please take this drivel elsewhere. There is a christianity conference, as well as a religion conference. This is not the place for obsolete moral philosophy. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (541) Tue 6 Dec 94 21:21 By: William Stroud To: Ben Ringwald Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:151/142.0 2ee646aa -=> Quoting Ben Ringwald to William Stroud <=- WS> Great idea! Then at least no one would complain about you WS> affecting their broadcast patterns, and it would work even BR> BR> Except the FCC! Hello, Ben, in my old home state of Texas! OK, I'll bite. Assuming you meant "Expect" the FCC, why would the Federal Communication Commission care if one extracts power from a naturally occuring radio frequency? How would they even me? WRS ... The 2nd Amendment has worked to preserve liberty for over 200 years. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: The Soapbox BBS - "Your Infotainment Specialist" (1:151/142) @PATH: 151/142 1000 1002 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (542) Wed 7 Dec 94 12:53 By: Shane Day To: All Re: Alternate Power Sources ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:243/67 87123e24 @TID: InterEcho 1.02 6E010813 Any one out there I was wondering if you could help me I'm looking for Statistics on Oil,Coal,Gas,Nuclear VS Solar,Wind,Water,GeoThermol . I'm Also looking for Blue prints for as many as posible . For above I'm looking for Side affects Vs amount of energy It would be much Appreciated for help thanks for the help from the people that can seya . --- RoboBOARD/FX 1.04 * Origin: (1:243/67) @PATH: 243/67 54 3 12/12 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (543) Wed 7 Dec 94 21:36 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Russ Williams Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c4000ff0 -> Man, Old engines, motorcycles, Nik Tesla,...we're not related are we? hehe -> TTYL -> Russ KB6JNM Pretty strange aint it! 73 El x WA5HBE -> I recently built a five foot version of his famous coil; It really blows -> people away when I hold a neon tube or a fluorescent tube in my bare hand a -> few feet away and it lights up. It also fills the garage with ozone. I'll never forget the looks I got when upon moving my trailer to a new location, I was wandering around in the yard with a 40watt flourescent burning brightly as I tested out my inverted Vee installation. The neighbors on each side were FREAKIN OUT! Then I made the "Cut" signal, (Drag finger across throat) my wife cut the carrier and one old biddy almost fainted! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (544) Thu 8 Dec 94 9:32 By: Ben Ringwald To: Robin van Spaandonk Re: MHD generators? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:124/4115.251 2ee6d345 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006ac5c Hello Robin! 03 Dec 94 23:42, Robin van Spaandonk wrote to All: RvS> Does anyone know of any research done into the concept of using the wind RvS> as the motive force in an MHD generator, thus producing electricity with RvS> no moving parts? What's an MHD generator? Tell us how it works with no moving parts. Thanks, Ben --- GoldED 2.42.G0615 * Origin: Welcome to Pecan Valley * FW Texas (1:124/4115.251) @PATH: 124/4115 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (546) Thu 8 Dec 94 12:02 By: Jim Bilderback To: Arlo Hagler Re: Re: Peddle power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 88bd5160 AH> "...Also, I'm > > pretty sure there was an ad for a single person pedal-powered uni > > for sale in one or more of the back issues." > > Also, Real Goods has (had?) an kit for sale, to convert a bicycle. I h > seen their sourcebook in a while, but maybe they can still get 'em. > i'll stop by their store next time i'm down that way. (i gather they're doing rather well in the business) anybody in the woods using these? seems like a great way to let the kids burn off some energy, emergency backup, etc. * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (547) Tue 29 Nov 94 16:35 By: The Muffin Muncher To: Ian Woofenden Re: generator efficiency diesel v propane.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2250/21@FIDOnet 0000061A @REPLY: 1:2250/50@FIDOnet 7DFA8FE8 @PID: VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 10 Re: generator efficiency diesel v propane.... > 0AREA:HOMEPOWR > 0MSGID: 1:101/525.3 7dfa8fe8 > On (10 Oct 94) Cloyce Osborn wrote to Ian Woofenden... > CO> Yes, the warning was intended to be particular to diesel > CO> engines. Gasoline, unlike diesel fuels, doesn't provide any > CO> lubrication so the engines are designed to get lube from > CO> another source (the crankcase). That's why gasoline/propane > CO> conversions, like yours, work so well. > OK. Learn something new every day... > So what do you think about the hybrids that people have been talking > about here lately - like 75% propane and 25% diesel? > CO> Origin: Res Ipsa Loquitur, Oklahoma (1:147/34.13) > Where is this joint? Don't see it on my map . > (Didn't know you Okies could speak latin...) > Ian °°±±²² AlterEgo POS Portland ME, 1-(207)-774-2516 VNet @1207015 °°±±²² °°±±²² Educational & Entertaining Public Online Services °°±±²² °°±±²² North Eastern Regional Programmers Society (N.E.R.P.S) HQ. °°±±²² --- VFIDO 6.20.00 Gamma Candidate 10 * Origin: Dark Star VI FIDOnet <-> VirtualNET Gateway (1:2250/21) @PATH: 2250/21 50 2410/116 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (549) Thu 8 Dec 94 20:11 By: Jerry McBride To: McBeath Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:266/28.0 ee7b3ee2 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006aaf6 McBeath wrote in a message to All: M> Can you use furnace oil straight in a diesal engine? M> (heating oil is a lot cheaper here due to tax reasons). M> i've been told you can, but of course very few people are M> willing to commit an answer due to the legalities involved with M> taxes.... I'll commit to an answer, mainly because the diesel that I fuel with #2 isn't a "road vehicle". Namely, an old Case Construction King 580B back-hoe. I use this piece of equipment on a daily basis on a "farm of sorts" and have had pretty good results running it on heating oil. However, it's not real "user friendly" during the cold season. Number 2, in my back-hoe, demonstrates hard starting and real troublesome waxing of the fuel filters. Especally when the thermometer drops into "winter digits". It can pick the worst possible of times to build up so much wax in the primary and seconday fuel filters that the engine will starve for fuel and shut down! What I've learned early on to help remedy the problem is to mix a bit of kerosene with each fill up, about 1 gallon of kerosene to 5 of #2, and top it off with an occasional "diesel treatment" to help with the waxing problem. Also, the addition of a fuel line heater has helped, but not completely eliminated the wax problem in cold weather. I've been using heating oil in this "hoe" for about 6 years now, not out of choice, but for convience. For what it's worth, two years prior to my switching to #2, I did run diesel fuel in the hoe, and it was much better over all. I've since come to find out that the diesel you buy at the gas station has a much lower wax and sulpher content and has a slew of additives that furnaces don't need or even care about. Basically, if you pay attention to the tune of your equipment (filters and such) running #2 won't hurt anything. However, if you aren't the type to "stay on top" of your equipment, then I'd say buy the diesel from the stations. It's mixed to provide what a diesel engine was designed to expect. M> (i don't even own a diesel, so this is a curiosity question) Cool... Glad to tell you what I know. Have fun! Jerry McBride --- timEd/2 1.01+ * Origin: MoDem_Corner_609-877-0836_EdgeWater_Park_NJ_USA_V.fc (1:266/28) @PATH: 266/28 400 100 505 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (550) Thu 8 Dec 94 20:37 By: Jerry McBride To: Gale Barrows Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:266/28.0 ee7b3ee1 Gale Barrows wrote in a message to E. Michael Smith: GB> When i was in the military, we used an engine (built by GB> Lycoming ?) in our 2 1/2 ton trucks that could use vegetable GB> cooking oil as a fuel, straight. It also could use gasoline, GB> diesel, peanut oil, soybean oil, diesel, jet fuel and many GB> other flammable liquids. I have often wondered why that GB> technology has not been further developed and applied to GB> smaller civillian vehicles and equipment. Hi Gale. That's easy. Multi-Fuel engines are inherently expensive. If you ever raised the hood on that truck or looked at the service/maintenance manual, you'd agree. Thanks, Jerry --- timEd/2 1.01+ * Origin: MoDem_Corner_609-877-0836_EdgeWater_Park_NJ_USA_V.fc (1:266/28) @PATH: 266/28 400 100 505 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (551) Fri 2 Dec 94 8:13 By: Jim Stauffer To: Tony Camillo Re: Woodstove ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:271/270 87276fac On 11-30-94 TONY CAMILLO wrote to JIM STAUFFER... TC> If all fails "Go see the wood Doctor and browse TC> around like your going to buy a new stove". That guy at the "Energy Place" must hate to see me coming. Everyone going in there is ready to buy a $1900.00 automatic pellet stove. I tell him how great the pellet stove is and ask if he has any old used stoves in the back. He usually walks away after that! I bought a flue thermometer from him yesterday for $15.00. I don't understand buying a $1900.00 wood stove. I bought my stove at Lowes for $250.00 a couple years ago to save money. I did not want to get into a high tech or yuppie-preppie-over priced wood stove with a RED door! Also, why buy a wood stove just so I can go buy a $25.00 bag of wood pellets every week? Just don't understand, but they are selling as fast as they can get them in. TC> Lastly, Flame color is not a reliable indication of completeness TC> of combustion in wood fires. Hence, my friend; "Your wasting your TC> time". Something to think about ! Stay warm in Williamsburg-Dude ! You are so technical! I plan on running my exaust temperature around 400 F. What RPM are you running your wood stove? Also, what color flame is associated with 1700 RPM? Thanks for your help! Is it true that you have a Doctors degree in Thermodumbnamics? I will stay warm by your FLAME! I need to cool my computer screen with liquid nitrogen to keep your FLAME from singeing my eyebrows! Cover your eyes to protect your eyelashes Tony. Don't pull your hernia loading wood! Later Technical Man, JS * OFFLINE 1.58 * The smartest people I know don't come here anymore..... --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Virginia Data Exchange (1:271/270) @PATH: 271/270 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (564) Sun 4 Dec 94 12:47 By: Dave Paxton To: Arlo Hagler Re: Re: gas refers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 8772075E AH>Alternative Energy Engineering (800-777-6609) has new units in their catalog AH>by Servel (Dometic), and Consul. Both are full-sixed (the Servel is 7.7 cubi AH>feet, the Consul, 7.8). I have also seen full-sixed units by Dometic, intend AH>for larger mobile homes. They require 12vdc for the electronics. Thanks for the info. I guess these appliance sales people are wrong then, htere are still new units available.I am not sure about Consul but I read some time back that Servel was moveing all their manufacturing to S.America and Holland??? Are they still manufacturing here too? IF POSSIBLE I would rather buy american but if not I will have to buy "exotics". Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * Impeach Clinton... and her husband too! --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-452-5227 (1:369/3.0) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/52 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (566) Fri 9 Dec 94 9:35 By: John Draper To: Larry Kessler Re: RE: CRYSTAL RADIO LIGHT, ETC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your input - I'm at least a month away from digging out my books. I just recently moved, and I can't beleive how much I have accumulated in 27 years in my previous location. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: The Computer Orphanage, Fort Washington, Md. (1:109/412) @PATH: 109/412 2 7 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (567) Thu 8 Dec 94 11:35 By: Gale Barrows To: Russ Williams Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -> I just read a biography of Tesla, which is what got me wondering. EH> Amazin' man wasn't he? Substantially ahead of his time, EH> though he DID have some rather unpractical ideas. (This train of EH> thought among 'em.) RW> RW>I recently built a five foot version of his famous coil; It really blows RW>people away when I hold a neon tube or a fluorescent tube in my bare RW>hand RW>a few feet away and it lights up. It also fills the garage with ozone. Hey, build a bunch more of them and we can have our R-12 back !!! --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (568) Fri 9 Dec 94 9:45 By: Ben Ringwald To: MShadowfax Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:124/4115.251 2ee82861 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006aec1 Hello MShadowfax! 05 Dec 94 19:55, MShadowfax wrote to All: M> I've read about these and had a chance to see them "demonstrated" M> last week. They work well - provided you have a south or near-south M> exposure to the daily sunshine. They DO NOT work at night! There is no M> reflector mounted on your roof. They reduce your daily energy consumption M> by negating the need for using electric lights during the day. They seem M> ideally suited for rooms with few or poorly-oriented/blocked windows, but M> they're not the Answer to all your power problems by any stretch of the What is/are the diameters of these tubes? How long? Prices? Ben --- GoldED 2.42.G0615 * Origin: Welcome to Pecan Valley * FW Texas (1:124/4115.251) @PATH: 124/4115 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (569) Fri 9 Dec 94 1:44 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Lim Lian Hoon Re: Re: Hydrogen Windmill? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c4846b62 -> Punching nos. gives P = 151 W or slightly over 1/5 hp. There ya go! A man who knows what he's talking about. Thanks Lim. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (570) Fri 9 Dec 94 1:51 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Randy Baer Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c4846b63 -> STATION ARE THERE ERP WATTS. MOST FROM A 2KW TRANSMITTER AND A TALL -> ANTENNA.. Sorry Randy, but that aint the way it is..... ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (583) Fri 9 Dec 94 19:33 By: Terry Buyers To: Doug Teed Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3624/7 4b89b556 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006a9eb In a msg on , Doug Teed of 1:3641/223 writes: DT> From: teeddoug@nbnet.nb.ca (Doug Teed) DT> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 02:34:56 AST DT> I have a 10 x 10 solarium with 30 deg. sloping glass on top. It DT> can be isolated from the house by sliding patio door. DT> Problem: extreme temp fluctu- ations in summer & winter. DT> Exhaust fan hooked to thermostat pumps warm air into DT> basement, which provides some thermal storage. How can I DT> make the solarium more liveable for me and my plants? Would DT> a dark tile floor absorb enough heat to keep the sol. warm at DT> night during winter? Typical nighttime temps between DT> Nov.-Mar. are around -10 to -25 degrees Celcius. DT> Could I cover the dark tiles with a white throw rug in DT> summer to reflect solar energy? I am also considering DT> installing some type of shade or blind for the glass roof DT> which may help shade and insulate. DT> I'd appreciate any suggestions or sources for information. DT> Thanks. I'd scrounge 5 or 8 plastic 55 gallon plastic barrels - although metal drums will do if you either don't mind replacing them when they rust or use inhibitors or paint the interiors. Paint the outsides black and line them up along the back wall of the solarium where the lower angle rays of winter sun can hit them squarely. Use these for a thermal flywheel in the winter. In summer, I'd go for the shade, and keep the air moving. A 3" pvc pipe stuck up to the highers point in the solarium with a small fan pulling the air down and dumping it outside will do much to improve the temperature problems. --- Squish v1.01 * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox (803)652-3760 PRNet/SC SURVNet (1:3624/7) @PATH: 3624/7 3603/20 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (585) Sat 10 Dec 94 12:41 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Gale Barrows Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c50f1e70 -> Hey, build a bunch more of them and we can have our R-12 back !!! Hell of a deal! Actually, we have plenty of the stuff, unfortunately, we can't get it to go up there where it's needed. It's O3 or something like that which means it's heavy. Likes to hang around LOW and rot tires..... ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (588) Thu 8 Dec 94 21:59 By: Jim Dunmyer To: Gale Barrows Re: ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT VEGGIE DIESEL? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > sulphur reduction requirements on a nation wide basis. Politics > aside, the fuels must be at least basicly interchangeable or the dye > would not be required. Heating fuel is likely to be higher in sulpher than good Diesel, and lower in Cetane rating. Some Diesel engines won't mind much (older, larger, slower-turning ones), but others won't work as well nor as long on heating oil. I used heating oil in my old tractor and sawmill engine, but my Diesel Rabbit didn't start nearly as well as on Diesel fuel. It also was much quieter in cold weather; this was especially noticable with Standard Diesel Supreme. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Toledo's TBBS, Boardwatch Number 55 @ 313-854-6001 (1:234/2) @PATH: 234/2 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (605) Tue 6 Dec 94 15:00 By: Brian McMinn To: All Re: Re: LED Lighting Efficiency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b254 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Brian McMinn @Subject: Re: LED Lighting Efficiency @Message-Id: <27454.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:00:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Kendall Willets wrote: > After the earlier thread about LED flashlights, I checked the Radio > Shack catalog for specs on their LEDs. One thing that struck me, after > I did a few calculations, was that the efficiency of their 5-candle LED > is quite high. Normally 100 lumens/watt is considered good for a > fluorescent lamp, but I got a figure of over 1600 lumens/watt for the > LED! The efficiency of LED's has been going up steadily over the past few years. It was only recently, though, that generic LED's surpassed the efficiency of incandescent bulbs. I think it was Spectrum (from IEEE) where I recently read an article on LED's for general illumination. I'll look it up if anyone requests. Brian McMinn brian.mcminn@amd.com Re: LED Lighting Efficiency --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (607) Tue 6 Dec 94 15:14 By: BOB KELLAND To: All Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b257 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: BOB KELLAND @Subject: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing @Message-Id: <28235.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:14:12 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List For this first observed icing of the blades on the 2-bladed hawt the build-up was evenly spread over the entire windward surface of the blades to a depth of approximately 3/4 inch. The aerodynamics of the blades were clearly spoiled by the ice as the blades barely turned in a fairly strong wind. (15-20 mph) The ambient temp increased to about 0 degrees C (on Dec 5) and most of the ice was shed by 2pm or so...but this coincided with the winds calming over the period of observation. So for this test the turbine did not turn fast enough to introduce any noticeable vibration. Icing in this area (S. John's Newfoundland) occurs primarily in late winter/early spring. I hope the machine will be operational for observations of the icing effects during that time. Anyone else have experience in this area? Bob Effects of Windmill Blade Icing --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (608) Tue 6 Dec 94 15:37 By: "Linda B. Best" To: All Re: Re: First Hello to Group ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b258 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Linda B. Best" @Subject: Re: First Hello to Group @Message-Id: <29762.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:37:56 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List RICHARD, I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT "THE WATERHEART PROJECT." I MAY BE GOING TO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WITH THE PEACE CORPS JULY 1995. IF SO, I HOPE TO BE DOING SOME WORK IN "NEW" ENERGY PROJECTS- -SUCH AS PV, SOLAR HOT WATER, ECETERA. I'M CURRENTLY COMPILING ALL THE RESOURCES I CAN FIND TO HELP FACILITATE ANY FEASIBLE ENERGY PROJECTS. LINDA P.S. I'M A LOW TECKY WHO LIKES TO INTERNET WITH HIGH TECKIES TO GET THE JOB DONE--YOU DESIGN; I MARKET-- CONCEPTS THROUGH PUBLIC EDUCATION. > >Cathy: I am heartened also to hear form the "low teckies". I'm assuming that >John Duffy is one of your co-workers, hello John. Have you contacted CREST >(Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technologys) in DC? Contact >Christopher Gronbeck at "gronbeck@access.digex.net" Outside of the normal >sources, that I'm sure you already know of, they are a relatively new source >and growing rapidly. > >I'm currently working on what I call "The WaterHeart Project" >The first item being developed is a low cost heliostat for internal building >Daylighting and / or solar concentrator systems. The Heliostat will stand >alone as a viable product in the US as a low cost replacement for existing >heliostats. It is also simple enough to be transferable to the developing >countries. I'm in the patent process now. >The second is a low tech solar fueled steam ("atmosphere") engine that will >develop 1 to 2 HP (shaft). This engine has deliberately been designed to be >as low tech as possible to allow construction in the developing countries. >Would you believe it's mostly wood? >The goal of the project is to teach the "village blacksmith" shops of the >world how to produce there own energy systems for water pumping, agricultural >equipment, small shop power etc. Cottage Industries. The >"Teach-Them-How-to-Fish" approach or better yet "Learn-Together-How-to-Fish". > >I'm still in the design stage but will be building prototypes soon. I would >like to hear more from those with actual experience in the LDCs to give us a >reality check on what is really "appropriate". >For one on one e-mail to mudywater@aol.com >------------------------------------------ >In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an otherwise >barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where little feet >splash happily in the muddy water. >------------------------------------------ >Re: First Hello to Group > -- Linda B. Best E-Mail : lbest@transylv Internet: lbest@transylv.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (704) 884-3109 Re: First Hello to Group R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (609) Tue 6 Dec 94 15:51 By: Rob Knapp To: All Re: Re: Photovoltaic wrap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b259 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Rob Knapp @Subject: Re: Photovoltaic wrap @Message-Id: <498.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:51:28 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List John van Roosmalen -- This is a thank-you for the helpful comments about the "wrap" story. You really helped me put it in perspective. Rob Knapp Evergreen State College, Olympia WA Re: Photovoltaic wrap --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (610) Tue 6 Dec 94 15:56 By: Larry London To: All Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b25b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Larry London @Subject: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) @Message-Id: <1085.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 15:56:25 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List ------- start of forwarded message ------- >From: jdjensen@eos.ncsu.edu (Joshua David Jensen) Newsgroups: triangle.general Subject: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? Date: 30 Nov 1994 19:19:34 GMT Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos I'm thinking about modifying my car engine to burn natural gas, or alcohol. Does anyone know if there are places to buy these, or other alternative fuels, around here? Thanks... Info on alternative fuel modification would be also appreciated. Thanks... -- _____ _____ ( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ ) | / | Joshua David Jensen | \ | | / | at North Carolina State University | \ | | / | jdjensen@eos.ncsu.edu | \ | | / | (919) 755-9299 | \ | (_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_ ____) ------- end of forwarded message ------- Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (612) Tue 6 Dec 94 16:18 By: List Bill Kovarik To: All Re: Re: alcohol fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b260 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: List Bill Kovarik @Subject: Re: alcohol fuel @Message-Id: <2266.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:18:09 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > > I recently heard from a well known expert on automobile technologies that > alcohol based fuels are impractical since alcohol is highly hydrophilic > (water absorbing). True, low carbon alcohols (methyl, ethyl, propyl) are hydrophilic, but that doesnt make them impractical. In some ways that might be helpful. > He said that every test program so far has been > scrapped due to rusting gas tanks, fuel lines etc. Bunk. Hundreds of test programs had no problems with existing materials. SERI (NREL) had a compendium of gasohol and alcohol fuels test programs published in 1984 or 85. Must have been 200 test programs in it. This never came up. > All stainless steel parts would be needed. Not true. Tell me, is your "expert" in some way associated with an oil company? Doesnt he know that the standard attack is: * Less BTU per gallon -- therefore double gas tank size (not true) * Energy balance problems -- takes more to make than it uses (not true) * Not really renewable (he's lying) * Not good for sustainable agriculture (now THERE you have an argument) ... Bill Kovarik coauthor The Forbidden Fuel: Power Alcohol in the 20th Century Re: alcohol fuel R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (613) Tue 6 Dec 94 16:06 By: Rob Johnston To: All Re: Solar Panel Questions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b263 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: RMJOHNS@opie.raleigh.ibm.com (Rob Johnston) @Subject: Solar Panel Questions. Date: 6 Dec 1994 16:06:21 GMT @Message-Id: <3c225t$1fov@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com> @Reply-To: RJOHNSTON@vnet.ibm.com (Rob Johnston) I am looking at adding a passive air based solar panel to my house, and have a couple of beginning questions. For background, basically there would be a panel at ground level, feeding into a rock/brick storage area in the crawl space. The rock storage uses convection to circulate air through the house. Pretty simple, and hopefully relatively inexpensive. 1) I would like to use plexeglass as opposed to glass on the panel, since it will be at ground level (ie kid level) . In my initial shopping, I have found plexeglass able to handle temperatures to 200 and to 800 degrees F, The 800 degree stuff is 5 times more expensive than the 200. I am assuming that 200 is too low of a temperature. I think 800 should be sufficient, although the label says it ignites at 800, which concerns me a bit. Does anyone have a similar setup that could give me an idea of what kind of temperatures to expect at the top of the panel. Are there calculations that could help me with this? Any other issues with plexeglass. 2) Should i assume that "Blocks 98% of UV rays" is a bad thing in this situation. 3) I heard/read about a salt (Glibson salt?? something like that.) that has a melting point of 80 deg F. Within +- 2 degrees of 80, 2 pounds of stuff has the same thermal mass as 600+ pounds of rock. Has anyone heard of this stuff and know whether it is expensive, and where I might get some?? Seems like it would be easier to handle a couple pounds of that versus the brick. On the down side, I expect that once I get outside of 78 - 82 degrees, it has the themal mass of 2 pounds of rock. Any comments? 4) Technically, am I suppose to get a building permit for this type of work? Thanks Rob // My opinions are my own.. Robert Johnston (919) 543-8406 tl 441-8406 RMJOHNS at RALVM14 RMJOHNS at RTP RMJOHNS@rtp.vnet.ibm.com Dept G03A/Building 062 RTP, NC To arouse a desire to create is difficult; To kill that desire is extremely easy. --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]ISSC So (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (614) Tue 6 Dec 94 16:25 By: allen dale sylvester To: All Re: Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b264 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: allen dale sylvester @Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) @Message-Id: <2553.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:25:30 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Speaking of alcohol fuels, I had a couple of questions of my own. first of all, I believe the current accepted figure for generating ethanol from grains is about 1.5 gallons per bushel, anyone have a better figure? At any rate, my questions are: 1) what would be wrong with using alcohol to generate steam and thereby generate electricity in stationary power stations - thereby elminiating the need for stainless steel parts, etc. The cars can then be electric, and one could just swap batterys at these stations. 2) is ethanol actually energetic enough to provide motive power in an engine specifically designed to run on gasoline? For that matter, does anyone have figures on the energetics of ethanol-- flame speed, energy-per-unit released, etc? Thanks! Allen Sylvester asylvest@indiana.edu Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (615) Tue 6 Dec 94 16:28 By: Mike Zimmerman To: All Re: Re: alcohol fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b265 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mike Zimmerman @Subject: Re: alcohol fuel @Message-Id: <2845.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 16:28:18 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In article <11986.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> hochman writes: >From: hochman >Path: uwm.edu!caen!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.graphics.cornell.edu!pcg-gw!use net >Newsgroups: alt.energy.renewable >Subject: alcohol fuel >Message-ID: <11986.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 07:13:19 GMT >Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu >Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > >Lines: 8 >I recently heard from a well known expert on automobile technologies that >alcohol based fuels are impractical since alcohol is highly hydrophilic >(water absorbing). He said that every test program so far has been >scrapped NOT TRUE! due to rusting gas tanks, Fuel tanks on the vehicle or storage? There is water in every conventional gasoline storage and vehicle tank that has been used for very long. On the other hand, since alcohol fuels pick up water, there is little or no water in the alcohol storage tanks or vehicle fuel tanks. Think about the additive for vehicle fuel tanks in the winter to prevent fuel line freeze up. It's alcohol. > fuel lines etc. All stainless steel >parts would be needed. Does anybody have any ideas concerning this? It is true that vehicle fuel tanks and lines are stainless steel to prevent corrosion. Also, the alcohol fuel is well controlled in most demonstration programs, to prevent impurities which will promote corrosion. There are several demonstration programs using M-85 or E-85. Wisconsin's program in its third year. The vehicles are performing extremely well and storage tanks are fine. Re: alcohol fuel --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (616) Tue 6 Dec 94 17:00 By: R.Myers/G-T05 To: All Re: "CALCULATES VIOLARTOR'S ECONOMIC BENEFITS FROM NONCOMPLIANCE" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b267 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil @Subject: "CALCULATES VIOLARTOR'S ECONOMIC BENEFITS FROM NONCOMPLIANCE" Date: 6 Dec 1994 17:00:45 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: I received a postcard advertisement for "COMPLIANCE SOFTWEARE DIRECTLY FROM THE EPA" from Machalec Communicatons, Inc. NTIS Order Dept., 1401 West 76th St, Minneapolis MN 55423. The text contained the following: " Source: Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Enforcement Summmary: The model calculates the ecomonic benefit that a company gains by delaying payment necessary for compliance with environmental regulations or permits. While the primary purpose of the BEN Model is to calculate the economic benefit of EPA regulation NONCOMPLIANCE ..." Capitalization of the word "noncompliance" is mine. Questions: 1. Why should it be economically advantageous to not comply with regulations? 2. Why is the EPA telling people that? 3. Why is my tax money going towards a project like this? 4. Why is some company receiving $148.00 per copy for something my tax dollars paid for the development of? Bob --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (617) Tue 6 Dec 94 17:01 By: List Bill Kovarik To: All Re: Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b269 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: List Bill Kovarik @Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) @Message-Id: <4576.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 17:01:49 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > > Speaking of alcohol fuels, I had a couple of questions of my own. > first of all, I believe the current accepted figure for generating > ethanol from grains is about 1.5 gallons per bushel, anyone have a better > figure? 1 bu corn = 2.3 - 2.5 gals. ethyl alcohol > > > 1) what would be wrong with using alcohol to generate steam and thereby > generate electricity in stationary power stations - thereby elminiating > the need for stainless steel parts, etc. The cars can then be electric, > and one could just swap batterys at these stations. You dont need stainless steel parts to run a car on ethanol. Any car can be converted to ethanol right now simply by making the carburetor jets larger to increase the air in the air fuel ratio. That kind of conversion will not be very satisfactory because you wont take advantage of alcohol higher useful compression ratio. Alcohols are actually far more efficient (and therefore clean burning) than gasoline. The kinds of conversions they were doing in Brazil in the 1970s and 80s involved both carburetor and engine compression increases. There were problems with corrosion of engine surfaces and fuel tanks that were attributed not to alcohol but to acidic impurties in the Brazilian alcohols. There have been studies of methanol in stationary power turbines for peak shaving and although its slightly more expensive than remote coal the ecomoics are favorable for in-city power stations. > > 2) is ethanol actually energetic enough to provide motive power in an > engine specifically designed to run on gasoline? > For that matter, does anyone have figures on the energetics of ethanol-- > flame speed, energy-per-unit released, etc? Gasoline has about 120,000 BTU per gallon Ethanol has about 80,000 BTU per gallon Methanol has about 60,000 BTU per gallon A car designed for ethanol or methanol fuel, taking advantage of the higher useful compression ratio of the alcohol, can go as far on a tankful of alcohol as a gasoline powered car can go on a tankful of gasoline. This has been well documented since the US Geological Survey studies on alcohol fuel in 1906. Bill Kovarik (again) wkovarik@ruacad.ac.runet.edu Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (618) Tue 6 Dec 94 18:03 By: R.Myers/G-T05 To: All Re: Re: First Hello to Group ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b272 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil @Subject: Re: First Hello to Group Date: 6 Dec 1994 18:03:38 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: If your going overseas in a Peace Corps type situation, on of the books I recommend you get is VITA's "Village Technology Handbook". It's US$19.95, which includes US 4th class postage. The ISBN for the english (English?) language version is 086619-275-1. You cold check it out in a library befor you buy it. Here's VITA's entry in the Virginia Solar Council's resource guide, a special edition of SolarDex. Volunteers In Technical Assistance (VITA) 1600 Wilson Blvd 5th floor Arlington VA 22209 Contact: Brij Mathur Phone: 703-276-1800 InterNet: bmathur@vita.org Books for third world, developing, underdeveloped countries, and folks going there to help. Back to basics life-style information. Their books are distributed by Books International Phone: 703-435-3248 Bob InterNet: r.myers/g-t05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil (That's g - t ZERO 5) Voice: 202-267-1355 (Work) Postal: ETCM Bob Myers FAX: 202-267-4106 (Work) U.S. Coast Guard (G-TPS-4) AmRad: KB2DHK 2100 Second Street SW Washington DC 20593-0001 --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Dec 6, 1994 10:18 AM Message ID: 199412061538 From: AE%SJSUVM1.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU/cgsmtp To: Multiple recipients of list AE Copies: Blind CC: Attach: Subject: Re: First Hello to Group RICHARD, I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT "THE WATERHEART PROJECT." I MAY BE GOING TO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WITH THE PEACE CORPS JULY 1995. IF SO, I HOPE TO BE DOING SOME WORK IN "NEW" ENERGY PROJECTS- -SUCH AS PV, SOLAR HOT WATER, ECETERA. I'M CURRENTLY COMPILING ALL THE RESOURCES I CAN FIND TO HELP FACILITATE ANY FEASIBLE ENERGY PROJECTS. LINDA P.S. I'M A LOW TECKY WHO LIKES TO INTERNET WITH HIGH TECKIES TO GET THE JOB DONE--YOU DESIGN; I MARKET-- CONCEPTS THROUGH PUBLIC EDUCATION. > >Cathy: I am heartened also to hear form the "low teckies". I'm assuming that >John Duffy is one of your co-workers, hello John. Have you contacted CREST >(Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technologys) in DC? Contact >Christopher Gronbeck at "gronbeck@access.digex.net" Outside of the normal >sources, that I'm sure you already know of, they are a relatively new source >and growing rapidly. > >I'm currently working on what I call "The WaterHeart Project" >The first item being developed is a low cost heliostat for internal building >Daylighting and / or solar concentrator systems. The Heliostat will stand >alone as a viable product in the US as a low cost replacement for existing >heliostats. It is also simple enough to be transferable to the developing >countries. I'm in the patent process now. >The second is a low tech solar fueled steam ("atmosphere") engine that will >develop 1 to 2 HP (shaft). This engine has deliberately been designed to be >as low tech as possible to allow construction in the developing countries. >Would you believe it's mostly wood? >The goal of the project is to teach the "village blacksmith" shops of the >world how to produce there own energy systems for water pumping, agricultural >equipment, small shop power etc. Cottage Industries. The >"Teach-Them-How-to-Fish" approach or better yet "Learn-Together-How-to-Fish". > >I'm still in the design stage but will be building prototypes soon. I would >like to hear more from those with actual experience in the LDCs to give us a >reality check on what is really "appropriate". >For one on one e-mail to mudywater@aol.com >------------------------------------------ >In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an otherwise >barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where little feet >splash happily in the muddy water. >------------------------------------------ >Re: First Hello to Group > -- Linda B. Best E-Mail : lbest@transylv Internet: lbest@transylv.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (704) 884-3109 Re: First Hello to Group R --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (619) Tue 6 Dec 94 18:17 By: Andrew Cook To: All Re: Alcohol as Fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b273 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Andrew Cook @Subject: Alcohol as Fuel @Message-Id: <8304.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 18:17:13 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I have heard that in countries such as Brazil where ethanol was used extensively, its use was discontinued due to rustings gas tanks and fuel components. Can anyone then explain why we use Ethanol as "Dry GAs" to remove water from gas tanks in cold climates? Drew Cook ALC8@PGE.COM Alcohol as Fuel --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (620) Tue 6 Dec 94 18:46 By: Sean Smith To: All Re: DOE student research program ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b27e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Sean Smith @Subject: DOE student research program @Message-Id: <9888.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 18:46:46 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Last I knew HomePower Magazine offered a diskette containing a listing of current renewable energy educational programs being offered around the country. I don't have the exact info right now, but HOMEPOWER should be able to fill you in. Here's what info I have... Home Power Magazine POB 520, Ashland OR 97520, Editorial and advertising at 916.475.3179 (voice and FAX), Subscriptions and back issue info at 916.475.0830 Home Power BBS at 707.822.8640 richard.perez@homepower.org michael.welch@homepower.org Good Luck..... sean_smith@nps.gov. DOE student research program --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (621) Tue 6 Dec 94 20:02 By: Rob Johnston To: All Re: Solar Panel Questions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b297 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Rob Johnston @Subject: Solar Panel Questions. @Message-Id: <15227.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:02:54 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am looking at adding a passive air based solar panel to my house, and have a couple of beginning questions. For background, basically there would be a panel at ground level, feeding into a rock/brick storage area in the crawl space. The rock storage uses convection to circulate air through the house. Pretty simple, and hopefully relatively inexpensive. 1) I would like to use plexeglass as opposed to glass on the panel, since it will be at ground level (ie kid level) . In my initial shopping, I have found plexeglass able to handle temperatures to 200 and to 800 degrees F, The 800 degree stuff is 5 times more expensive than the 200. I am assuming that 200 is too low of a temperature. I think 800 should be sufficient, although the label says it ignites at 800, which concerns me a bit. Does anyone have a similar setup that could give me an idea of what kind of temperatures to expect at the top of the panel. Are there calculations that could help me with this? Any other issues with plexeglass. 2) Should i assume that "Blocks 98% of UV rays" is a bad thing in this situation. 3) I heard/read about a salt (Glibson salt?? something like that.) that has a melting point of 80 deg F. Within +- 2 degrees of 80, 2 pounds of stuff has the same thermal mass as 600+ pounds of rock. Has anyone heard of this stuff and know whether it is expensive, and where I might get some?? Seems like it would be easier to handle a couple pounds of that versus the brick. On the down side, I expect that once I get outside of 78 - 82 degrees, it has the themal mass of 2 pounds of rock. Any comments? 4) Technically, am I suppose to get a building permit for this type of work? Thanks Rob // My opinions are my own.. Robert Johnston (919) 543-8406 tl 441-8406 RMJOHNS at RALVM14 RMJOHNS at RTP RMJOHNS@rtp.vnet.ibm.com Dept G03A/Building 062 RTP, NC To arouse a desire to create is difficult; To kill that desire is extremely easy. Solar Panel Questions. --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (622) Tue 6 Dec 94 20:15 By: Mryka Hall-Beyer To: All Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b298 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mryka Hall-Beyer @Subject: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed @Message-Id: <16012.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:15:32 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List KM> the place for plumbing is outadoors. Why go to all the KM> trouble of making a nice warm dry weather-tight house and KM> then put a high-humidity-generating shower et cetera in the KM> middle? sounds like rethinking time to me. KM> KM> |{hm Reminds me of the old saw about the country folks shaking their heads in wonder at the summer residents "seems like they got it all backwards - they do their cookin' outdoors and their shittin' inside". But seriously, the key there is summer folks! In any reasonably cold climate, you HAVE to have your plumbing inside if you want any plumbing at all - and even at that, the pipes sometimes freeze inside. You also WANT humidity inside most of the time around here. Even a compost toilet needs more heat than it can generate itself, so couldn't be put outside. Besides, have you ever gotten up in the middle of the night to use anouthouse at 30 degrees, to say nothing of -30? Just goes to show that environmental architecture must be really locally generated. Like the apocryphal stories of Californians building nice solar houses with lots of windows facing north - following plans in an Australian book they didn't bother checking out the place of publication! -Mryka Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (623) Tue 6 Dec 94 20:30 By: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" To: All Re: CREDIT CARD NUMBERS VIA INTERNET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b29a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" @Subject: CREDIT CARD NUMBERS VIA INTERNET @Message-Id: <16897.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 20:30:59 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil I know it's not proper Netiquette to YELL... DONT SEND CREDTI CARD NUMBERS VIA INTERNET! Mr./Ms. Porter just lost what little credibility he/she had with me by making that suggestion. In my prejudiced view, the previous rantings and ravings were slick get attention tactics. Now there's blatant advertising and soliciting being done on InterNet. The "unique" combination of "services" and "courses" offered make me a little curious, but very, very cautious. If you want to spend your money, at least protect your credit and credit card number. Send the informaiton by phone or postal mail, and, check your next statment. Bob 202-267-2355 --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Dec 5, 1994 8:47 AM Message ID: 199412052004 Copies: Blind CC: Attach: Subject: The University of Ekotecture The environmental art and science school was founded in Palm Beach Florida on December 5, 1994 by Artists Jill Karlin and Architect Lee porter Butler. Correspondance programs in both environmental architecture, solar power, organic permaculture, biodigestion, Ekotecture, Yoga, music and drama are now availible and a data server will soon put the program on the Internet. A special program in interactive Cd ROM intuitive learning games will be availible in 1996. To subscribe to the school catalog and be kept posted on all up coming developments in the field of sustainable construction, environmental ecology, floating architecture, and decentralized solar gravity powered utility systems, paticipatory democratic design sessions for resolution of group process. To subscribe to the catalog, mail check or Money order to Jill Karlin Butler, 620 Biscayne, West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 or call 1-800 -496-4557 and charge to Visa, Mastercharge or American Express. $25 or send information, card # exp. date and address to Internet EMail lbutler@gate.net Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656 CREDIT CARD NUMBERS VIA INTERNET --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (624) Tue 6 Dec 94 21:13 By: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" To: All Re: Re: First Hello to Group ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2a0 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" @Subject: Re: First Hello to Group @Message-Id: <19029.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:13:21 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil If your going overseas in a Peace Corps type situation, on of the books I recommend you get is VITA's "Village Technology Handbook". It's US$19.95, which includes US 4th class postage. The ISBN for the english (English?) language version is 086619-275-1. You cold check it out in a library befor you buy it. Here's VITA's entry in the Virginia Solar Council's resource guide, a special edition of SolarDex. Volunteers In Technical Assistance (VITA) 1600 Wilson Blvd 5th floor Arlington VA 22209 Contact: Brij Mathur Phone: 703-276-1800 InterNet: bmathur@vita.org Books for third world, developing, underdeveloped countries, and folks going there to help. Back to basics life-style information. Their books are distributed by Books International Phone: 703-435-3248 Bob InterNet: r.myers/g-t05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil (That's g - t ZERO 5) Voice: 202-267-1355 (Work) Postal: ETCM Bob Myers FAX: 202-267-4106 (Work) U.S. Coast Guard (G-TPS-4) AmRad: KB2DHK 2100 Second Street SW Washington DC 20593-0001 --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Dec 6, 1994 10:18 AM Message ID: 199412061538 Copies: Blind CC: Attach: Subject: Re: First Hello to Group RICHARD, I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT "THE WATERHEART PROJECT." I MAY BE GOING TO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WITH THE PEACE CORPS JULY 1995. IF SO, I HOPE TO BE DOING SOME WORK IN "NEW" ENERGY PROJECTS- -SUCH AS PV, SOLAR HOT WATER, ECETERA. I'M CURRENTLY COMPILING ALL THE RESOURCES I CAN FIND TO HELP FACILITATE ANY FEASIBLE ENERGY PROJECTS. LINDA P.S. I'M A LOW TECKY WHO LIKES TO INTERNET WITH HIGH TECKIES TO GET THE JOB DONE--YOU DESIGN; I MARKET-- CONCEPTS THROUGH PUBLIC EDUCATION. > >Cathy: I am heartened also to hear form the "low teckies". I'm assuming that >John Duffy is one of your co-workers, hello John. Have you contacted CREST >(Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technologys) in DC? Contact >Christopher Gronbeck at "gronbeck@access.digex.net" Outside of the normal >sources, that I'm sure you already know of, they are a relatively new source >and growing rapidly. > >I'm currently working on what I call "The WaterHeart Project" >The first item being developed is a low cost heliostat for internal building >Daylighting and / or solar concentrator systems. The Heliostat will stand >alone as a viable product in the US as a low cost replacement for existing >heliostats. It is also simple enough to be transferable to the developing >countries. I'm in the patent process now. >The second is a low tech solar fueled steam ("atmosphere") engine that will >develop 1 to 2 HP (shaft). This engine has deliberately been designed to be >as low tech as possible to allow construction in the developing countries. >Would you believe it's mostly wood? >The goal of the project is to teach the "village blacksmith" shops of the >world how to produce there own energy systems for water pumping, agricultural >equipment, small shop power etc. Cottage Industries. The >"Teach-Them-How-to-Fish" approach or better yet "Learn-Together-How-to-Fish". > >I'm still in the design stage but will be building prototypes soon. I would >like to hear more from those with actual experience in the LDCs to give us a >reality check on what is really "appropriate". >For one on one e-mail to mudywater@aol.com >------------------------------------------ >In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an otherwise >barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where little feet >splash happily in the muddy water. >------------------------------------------ -- Linda B. Best E-Mail : lbest@transylv Internet: lbest@transylv.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (704) 884-3109 Re: First Hello to Group Re: First Hello to Group --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (625) Tue 6 Dec 94 21:15 By: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" To: All Re: Re: First Hello to Group ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2a1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" @Subject: Re: First Hello to Group @Message-Id: <19149.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:15:42 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil If your going overseas in a Peace Corps type situation, on of the books I recommend you get is VITA's "Village Technology Handbook". It's US$19.95, which includes US 4th class postage. The ISBN for the english (English?) language version is 086619-275-1. You cold check it out in a library befor you buy it. Here's VITA's entry in the Virginia Solar Council's resource guide, a special edition of SolarDex. Volunteers In Technical Assistance (VITA) 1600 Wilson Blvd 5th floor Arlington VA 22209 Contact: Brij Mathur Phone: 703-276-1800 InterNet: bmathur@vita.org Books for third world, developing, underdeveloped countries, and folks going there to help. Back to basics life-style information. Their books are distributed by Books International Phone: 703-435-3248 Bob InterNet: r.myers/g-t05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil (That's g - t ZERO 5) Voice: 202-267-1355 (Work) Postal: ETCM Bob Myers FAX: 202-267-4106 (Work) U.S. Coast Guard (G-TPS-4) AmRad: KB2DHK 2100 Second Street SW Washington DC 20593-0001 --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Dec 6, 1994 10:18 AM Message ID: 199412061538 Copies: Blind CC: Attach: Subject: Re: First Hello to Group RICHARD, I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT "THE WATERHEART PROJECT." I MAY BE GOING TO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WITH THE PEACE CORPS JULY 1995. IF SO, I HOPE TO BE DOING SOME WORK IN "NEW" ENERGY PROJECTS- -SUCH AS PV, SOLAR HOT WATER, ECETERA. I'M CURRENTLY COMPILING ALL THE RESOURCES I CAN FIND TO HELP FACILITATE ANY FEASIBLE ENERGY PROJECTS. LINDA P.S. I'M A LOW TECKY WHO LIKES TO INTERNET WITH HIGH TECKIES TO GET THE JOB DONE--YOU DESIGN; I MARKET-- CONCEPTS THROUGH PUBLIC EDUCATION. > >Cathy: I am heartened also to hear form the "low teckies". I'm assuming that >John Duffy is one of your co-workers, hello John. Have you contacted CREST >(Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technologys) in DC? Contact >Christopher Gronbeck at "gronbeck@access.digex.net" Outside of the normal >sources, that I'm sure you already know of, they are a relatively new source >and growing rapidly. > >I'm currently working on what I call "The WaterHeart Project" >The first item being developed is a low cost heliostat for internal building >Daylighting and / or solar concentrator systems. The Heliostat will stand >alone as a viable product in the US as a low cost replacement for existing >heliostats. It is also simple enough to be transferable to the developing >countries. I'm in the patent process now. >The second is a low tech solar fueled steam ("atmosphere") engine that will >develop 1 to 2 HP (shaft). This engine has deliberately been designed to be >as low tech as possible to allow construction in the developing countries. >Would you believe it's mostly wood? >The goal of the project is to teach the "village blacksmith" shops of the >world how to produce there own energy systems for water pumping, agricultural >equipment, small shop power etc. Cottage Industries. The >"Teach-Them-How-to-Fish" approach or better yet "Learn-Together-How-to-Fish". > >I'm still in the design stage but will be building prototypes soon. I would >like to hear more from those with actual experience in the LDCs to give us a >reality check on what is really "appropriate". >For one on one e-mail to mudywater@aol.com >------------------------------------------ >In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an otherwise >barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where little feet >splash happily in the muddy water. >------------------------------------------ -- Linda B. Best E-Mail : lbest@transylv Internet: lbest@transylv.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (704) 884-3109 Re: First Hello to Group --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (626) Tue 6 Dec 94 21:57 By: allen dale sylvester To: All Re: Selling power on the grid.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2a6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: allen dale sylvester @Subject: Selling power on the grid.... @Message-Id: <21339.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:57:08 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List If, lets say, someone built themselves a windmill farm, or a stationary alcohol powered generator (the larger commercial type generators, like you find as backup generators at hospitals, etc), or whatever, and built it on their own budget, (meaning, a non-business setup) and found that they had more than enough energy being generated....is it possible to sell this energy back out on the normal power grid? For instance, my brother is a farmer in Kansas, and we want to build a grain-alcohol distillery and generate power to run the irrigation systems. When not irrigating, can we sell the power we generate and get a little income from the utility companies? Thanks! Allen Sylvester asylvest@indiana.edu Selling power on the grid.... --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (627) Tue 6 Dec 94 22:13 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: yet another virus (fo'd from a friend at PNL)--pay attention ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2b8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: yet another virus (fo'd from a friend at PNL)--pay attention @Message-Id: <22210.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:13:01 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From: MX%"wh_reid@ccmail.pnl.gov" 6-DEC-1994 15:45:42.41 To: MX%"ng240@ursus.pnl.gov",MX%"mwood@acuvax.acu.edu",MX%"Earthenvir@aol .co m" CC: Subj: YAV (yet another virus) Return-Path: Received: from pnl.gov by ACUVAX.ACU.EDU (MX V4.0-1 VAX) with SMTP; Tue, 06 Dec 1994 15:45:36 CST Received: from ccmail.pnl.gov by pnl.gov (PMDF V4.3-13 #6012) id <01HKBQ0VXVA800004U@pnl.gov>; Tue, 06 Dec 1994 13:45:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 13:40 -0800 (PST) From: wh_reid@ccmail.pnl.gov Subject: YAV (yet another virus) To: ng240@ursus.pnl.gov, mwood@acuvax.acu.edu, Earthenvir@aol.com Message-ID: <01HKBQ0W3JO200004U@pnl.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The "next" virus is called "xxx-1." As with the other, delete w/o opening. yet another virus (fo'd from a friend at PNL)--pay attention --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (628) Tue 6 Dec 94 22:16 By: Andrew Waegel To: All Re: CREST announces RE-Kiosk online! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2bb @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Andrew Waegel @Subject: CREST announces RE-Kiosk online! @Message-Id: <22468.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:16:06 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List -=-=-= CREST announces RE-Kiosk Online =-=-=- The Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technology in Washington DC is pleased to announce a World Wide Web version of its Renewable Energy Educational Kiosk. This exhibit explains the basic renewable energy technologies such as photovoltaics, solar thermal, wind generation, hydroelectrics, geothermal power, and biomass. Each technology is explored through case studies, applications, and theoretical aspects. There are also sections on the economics and environmental impacts of renewable energy. The RE-Kiosk is a part of Solstice, CREST's Internet information service. The RE-Kiosk can be reached on the World Wide Web at http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/re-kiosk/index.shtml For more sustainable energy and development information online, visit the Solstice home page at http://solstice.crest.org/ on the World Wide Web. Solstice can also be reached through gopher at gopher.crest.org, anonymous ftp at ftp.crest.org, and email at info.crest.org. ...Andrew Waegel.asw@crest.org...Internet Services Manager...Center for ...Renewable Energy & Sustainable Technology...http://solstice.crest.org/ CREST announces RE-Kiosk online! --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (629) Tue 6 Dec 94 22:18 By: Alan Horowitz To: All Re: Re: alcohol fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2bc @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Alan Horowitz @Subject: Re: alcohol fuel @Message-Id: <22501.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:18:56 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, hochman wrote: > I recently heard from a well known expert on automobile technologies that > alcohol based fuels are impractical since alcohol is highly hydrophilic > (water absorbing). He said that every test program so far has been > scrapped due to rusting gas tanks, fuel lines etc. All stainless steel > parts would be needed. Does anybody have any ideas concerning this? What is the big deal about making a few parts out of non-rusting materials? Alan Horowitz alanh@infi.net Re: alcohol fuel R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (633) Tue 6 Dec 94 22:54 By: April Allderdice To: All Re: NREL SUMMER INTERNSHIPS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2da @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: April Allderdice @Subject: NREL SUMMER INTERNSHIPS @Message-Id: <24407.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:54:25 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List From the Earth, Wind, Sun Researching Renewable Energy Whether looking to the earth, wind, sun and to new resources and technologies, The National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) in Golden, CO, is nationally recognized for its achievements in the development of cleaner, safer and renewable energy resources. The primary federal laboratory for research, development, and deployment of renewable energy and energy efficient technologies, NREL offers full-time and summer internships to undergraduate and graduate students in the science, engineering and computer science disciplines, and post doctoral research associate appointments. Explore and Discover with NREL Student Internships Engineering Internships, requiring study in: % Mechanical, Electrical and Chemical Engineering % Environmental % Biochemical Scientific Internships, requiring study in: % Microbiology % Chemistry % Molecular Biology % Material Science % Physics % Biochemistry Technology Internships, requiring study in: % Computer Science (UNIX environment; RCS language) % Economics and Policy Analysis To apply for one of these internships, or a graduate fellowship, please request an application from the Associated Western Universities (AWU) (801)273-8911, or send your resume to NREL, Research Participant Program, c/o AWU, 4190 South Highland Drive, #211, Salt Lake City, UT 84124. For information regarding current job opportunities at NREL, contact JOB LINE (303)628-4650 or STUDENT JOB LINE (303)629-3333. Internet to gopherinfo.nrel.gov, or to Worldwide Web (MOSAIC) URL http:forward/info.nrel.gov:70. NREL is proud of its commitment to diversity, and is an Equal Opportunity Employer. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. NREL SUMMER INTERNSHIPS --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (634) Tue 6 Dec 94 23:37 By: Boaz Rahat To: All Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b2df @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: rahat@cs.wisc.edu (Boaz Rahat) @Subject: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds Date: 6 Dec 1994 23:37:31 GMT @Message-Id: <3c2sjr$o37@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Hi, Does anyone know how stratification of water is maintained in solar ponds (such as exist in the experimental facility in the Jordan valley for example)? The principle of operation there, as I understand it, is that the hot water at the bottom of the pond is also more saline, and stays heavier than the top strata. Thus hot water does not rise to the top to lose heat. How are winds prevented from mixing the water? Does anyone have an idea whether baffles are used? Any information on their spacing, how they are held in place, etc.? If there is any other group I should be addressing this question to, I would appreciate a pointer in that direction too ... Perhaps references to books that provide this information? Thanks, Boaz -- Boaz Rahat - 632 Wingra St, apt B, Madison, WI 53715 phone (608) 259-1265 --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]U of Wi (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (642) Wed 7 Dec 94 1:14 By: Michael Totten To: All Re: Re: PV response curves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b31b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mpt@crest.org (Michael Totten) @Subject: Re: PV response curves Date: 7 Dec 1994 01:14:18 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ken Zweibel's outstanding book, Harnessing Solar Power, The Photovoltaics Challenge (Plenum Press, NY, 1990) provides a section on your question. Sorry I don't have it at hand. Michael Totten Director, Center for Renewable Energy & Sustainable Technology (CREST) 777 N. Capitol Street N.E., Suite 805, Washington, DC 20002 Phone: (202) 289-5368 Fax: (202) 289-5354 EMAIL: mpt@crest.org WEB: http://solstice.crest.org/ Gopher: gopher.crest.org FTP: ftp.crest.org On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Chris Schroeder wrote: > I was wondering if anyone could explain why the response curves for solar > cells are limited on the end of higher energy. I know that the lower bound > is related to the energy gap of the semiconductor, but I can't find a > corresponding explaination for the higher bound. Any comments would be > appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Chris Schroeder > cschroed@willamette.edu > PV response curves > --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (643) Wed 7 Dec 94 1:57 By: Troy Savage To: All Re: You DO Have Rights! Wouldn't it be nice, if you had the power and t ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b321 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: jusavage@iglou.iglou.com (Troy Savage) @Subject: You DO Have Rights! @ @ Wouldn't it be nice, if you had the power and the means to do so, @ @ When was the last time you had an attorney represent you for a @Message-Id: @Sender: news@iglou.com (news) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 01:57:08 GMT The next time a contract and pen are shoved in your face with the command "Sign Here!" wouldn't it feel good to walk over to the fax and announce, "I would like my attorney to go over this first". The notice from the IRS arrives, can you afford to call an attorney? Ever had a legal question you needed answered but did not want to pay for an attorney's time? ALL of this and more (covers almost any legal concern) is possible and available to anyone! What health insurance is to doctors, this is to attorney's fees. Costing (depending on your state of residence) between $11.00 and $16.00 a month. For more information Email pplegal-request@iglou.com and in the body of your message put 'info please'. Or call Troy Savage at 502-245-1447. -- --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]IgLou I (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (644) Wed 7 Dec 94 2:20 By: DBHolmes To: All Re: The SunPipe Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b324 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: DBHolmes@aol.com @Subject: The SunPipe Company Date: 7 Dec 1994 02:20:09 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <941206201056_7422102@aol.com> The SunPipe Company regularly advertizes in Solar Today magazine. They list there address and phone number as follows: The SunPipe Company P. O. Box 2223 Northbrook, IL 60065 708/ 272-6977. Perhaps the Missouri address is a local dealer (?). DBHolmes --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (647) Wed 7 Dec 94 2:37 By: Edward M. Cyrana To: All Re: unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b329 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: emc@raster.Kodak.COM (Edward M. Cyrana) @Subject: unsubscribe Date: 7 Dec 1994 02:37:23 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <199412070109.AA20243@sideshowbob.raster.Kodak.COM> unsubscribe renew-energy --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (649) Wed 7 Dec 94 4:12 By: Mark Hutchinson To: All Re: Info Request - Fuel Cycle Emissions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b334 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mark Hutchinson @Subject: Info Request - Fuel Cycle Emissions @Message-Id: <11032.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 04:12:02 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am doing some research on the emissions throughout the fuel cycle (from mining and drilling to refining, transportation, pipeline compression and so forth to eventual use) of oil (mainly naphtha), coal, and natural gas. Does anyone know of resources that are available? An added complication is that I live in Hong Kong and access to information is at times difficult here. I would prefer internet accessible infomation but would like to know about all resources. THANKS! Mark Hutchinson Info Request - Fuel Cycle Emissions --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (653) Wed 7 Dec 94 1:05 By: Marlene Vogelsang To: All Re: RE: FERC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b33e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: mxv6@pge.com (Marlene Vogelsang) @Subject: RE: FERC @Message-Id: Date: 7 Dec 94 01:05:25 GMT @Sender: news@news01.pge.com FERC is the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Pacific (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (654) Wed 7 Dec 94 14:54 By: John Bailey To: All Re: Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b33f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: John Bailey @Subject: Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing @Message-Id: <931.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 14:54:43 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Here in Minnesota, the utility Northern States Power Company (NSP) is currently in the process of gaining a siting permit for the next 100 MW phase of wind power development. In their September 1994 application, submitted to the Minnesota Environmental Quality Board, NSP states that they expect a 5% Power Curve loss due to dirt and ice formation on turbine blades. They have the following table which includes other losses as well, based on experiences of other wind farms. The losses are estimated as follows: Availability 5% Power Curve, Ice 5% Array Losses 4% Controller 3% John. *********************************** John Bailey Institute for Local Self-Reliance 1313 Fifth Street SE, Suite 306 Minneapolis, MN 55414 Tel: 612-379-3815 Fax: 612-379-3920 E-mail: johnb@yoyo.micro.umn.edu ************************************ Re: Effects of Windmill Blade Icing --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (655) Wed 7 Dec 94 13:25 By: Lee Butler To: All Re: Alternative Economy Philosophy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b340 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lee Butler @Subject: Alternative Economy Philosophy @Message-Id: <26192.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 13:25:39 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List It is amazing to me that the estemed members of this board have allowed my personal style to become the main issue. Am I being excluded from further postings? If I am, it just shows why nothing is working in the world. No one is allowed to speak. The power of the word and the truth is obviously so threatening, that few people can stand to hear the debate. Forget who I am. Forget "envelope houses" whatever they are and simply consider that: Until the general public demands an integrated architectural structure with decentralized ( gravity-solar) power and utility systems which also sustains human life even during an earthquake, tidal wave or tornado, human beings will continue to live in fear of death from all these things, air and water pollution,lack of nutritious food, death from fire, drowning or being thrown from a building by wind. I challange anyone to a debate on these basic issues. Let us stop calling each other names and debate the politics of energy. It takes investors to finance the construction of anything given our money oriented society. Investors are fundamental to any project statement. The investor may be a foundation which never expects to get its money back, or it may be an individual who does. In either case, unless someone is prepared to allow others to earn money from their idea, the idea will not appeal top many people. Further more, if no money exchanges hands, it reduces the level of trust which can be established. money is trust. Trust in the value of the concept and the image on the paper. money is saying that you dedicate your abundance to the furtherance of the existence of whatever you are buying. I dwell on this issue because i observe that with most people, this one issue prevents them from seeing what I am saying. Greed, lust and avarice abound in the world. In order to succeed, I must appeal to this evident characteristic in others. It does not mean that I think less of others than I do of myself, it merely means that I am not in denial. Lee Porter Butler (christian name) Alpha Lee Rainbow Light Cloud (inner identity ) The Bird People, Builders of a New Dawn, Eloheim, Arc Angels, light beings, sentient point of persepctive. Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656 Alternative Economy Philosophy --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (656) Wed 7 Dec 94 13:27 By: James VanBokkelen To: All Re: Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b341 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: James VanBokkelen @Subject: Re: Trace Inverter cold feet @Message-Id: <26330.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 13:27:26 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Ian.Woofenden@p3.f525.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Ian Woofenden) writes: >But you're absolutely right, of course, that the cold has a very big >effect on the efficiency of batteries. It's amazing (depressing) how >much more I have to run the gen when it's cold. My battery-box hot-air collector (built around a 34"x76" double-pane door glazing unit w/12v circulating fan on its own PV panel) seems to be working. It's got the box (in unheated barn space) at about 62F right now, which is probably 10F warmer than this time last year. More reports as we get into January & February. -- James B. VanBokkelen Far Acres Farm jbvb@{vax.ftp.com, asylum.sf.ca.us} South Hampton, NH Re: Trace Inverter cold feet --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (657) Wed 7 Dec 94 5:53 By: KathyB3959 To: All Re: unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b342 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: KathyB3959@aol.com @Subject: unsubscribe Date: 7 Dec 1994 05:53:16 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <941206234347_7598559@aol.com> please unsubscribe --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (659) Wed 7 Dec 94 6:28 By: Caroline Le Couteur To: All Re: World Renewable Energy Conference ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b351 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Caroline Le Couteur @Subject: World Renewable Energy Conference @Message-Id: <16258.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 06:28:08 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I have heard that there is to be a world renewable energy confernce in Germany next year. Apparently it follows on from the ones in Reading, England. If anyone knows any information on this, can you let me know. Thanks World Renewable Energy Conference --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (660) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:27 By: Arlo Hagler To: All Re: Solar & Electrical services ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b359 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Arlo Hagler @Subject: Solar & Electrical services @Message-Id: <2769.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:27:03 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Arlo Hagler, ELECTRICIAN: Solar power systems, AC & DC Home wiring, phone systems, installation and programming, PROBLEM SOLVING. Call 923-2329 or E-mail at: Arlo@f53.n125.z1.fidonet.org. Solar & Electrical services --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (661) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:29 By: Elvis Hargrove To: All Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b35a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Elvis Hargrove @Subject: Peddle Power? @Message-Id: <2817.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:29:02 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List -> Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially more power -> .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. Your milage may vary..... I really wanted to run a 12 volt 9 inch tv, but I aint mean enough...... ^..^ Peddle Power? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (662) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:31 By: Arlo Hagler To: All Re: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b35b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Arlo Hagler @Subject: 6 @Message-Id: <2894.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:31:16 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, briefed, debriefed, or numbered!" I am not a number, I am a person! All of you were persons once. (Who is number one?). As for the batteries, perhaps one of those 12v. heating pads I've seen in AEE and/or Real Goods catalog, placed beneath the batteries. Probably a better way, tho'. Ideas, anyone? 6 --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (663) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:33 By: Jim Dunmyer To: All Re: Re: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b35c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Jim Dunmyer @Subject: Re: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR @Message-Id: <3283.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:33:22 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > What temp rate do you keep your wood stove at ? Max ? > I usually keep the temp at 400-450 (magnetic type on flue) I run it at 400-600, depending on outside temperature, until the room warms up, then the computer switches it to 200. Most of the time, it's bringing things up to temperature, and I fire it very lightly once things are warm, so I have nearly no creosote buildup. Plus, I use fairly-well seasoned wood, kept under roof. We've not cleaned the stack in years now, and it's still in fine shape; it's a double-wall solid-pack (MetalBestos) type, the ONLY kind to use with a stove. RE: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (664) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:35 By: James Rowe To: All Re: Electric Cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b35d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: James Rowe @Subject: Electric Cars @Message-Id: <3420.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:35:59 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am responding to your inquiry about electric cars. I do not know all that much about them either, but I am trying to find information on compost alcohol to run cars. I am trying to find alternatives which would give more mileage than electric cars which unfortunately need to be charged every fifty miles or so. Kind of a nuisance even going to Buffalo, unless you are planning to spend the night. I am also working on the idea of using compost for methane gas, to replace heating and cooking fuel, and possibly eliminate the need for external power supply completely. Please drop me a line if you hear anything, or have any ideas. Electric Cars --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (665) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:37 By: Ben Ringwald To: All Re: Crystal Radio Light, etc ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b35e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ben Ringwald @Subject: Crystal Radio Light, etc @Message-Id: <3467.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:37:32 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Hello William! 29 Nov 94 19:55, William Stroud wrote to John Draper: JD>> I've thought JD>> about making a coil tuned to various natural noise sources that JD>> appear at various points across the radio spectrum. WS> Great idea! Then at least no one would complain about you WS> affecting their broadcast patterns, and it would work even Except the FCC! WS> I'm pretty sure the formula I used was right. So, one last WS> question: Does my coil have to be made with bare copper wire? WS> Or will insulated wire of any other metal work as well? Bare or insulated wire would do fine. RF will travel through the insulation with no problems. Ben Crystal Radio Light, etc --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (666) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:39 By: Boaz Rahat To: All Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b35f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Boaz Rahat @Subject: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds @Message-Id: <3511.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:39:51 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Hi, Does anyone know how stratification of water is maintained in solar ponds (such as exist in the experimental facility in the Jordan valley for example)? The principle of operation there, as I understand it, is that the hot water at the bottom of the pond is also more saline, and stays heavier than the top strata. Thus hot water does not rise to the top to lose heat. How are winds prevented from mixing the water? Does anyone have an idea whether baffles are used? Any information on their spacing, how they are held in place, etc.? If there is any other group I should be addressing this question to, I would appreciate a pointer in that direction too ... Perhaps references to books that provide this information? Thanks, Boaz -- Boaz Rahat - 632 Wingra St, apt B, Madison, WI 53715 phone (608) 259-1265 Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (667) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:41 By: Dadoc To: All Re: REFRIGERATORS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b363 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Dadoc @Subject: REFRIGERATORS @Message-Id: <3556.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:41:58 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List IW--}Where is this company located? What kind of prices do they have? If IW--}they are better than Sunfrost, why haven't they received attention IW--}in the AE market? Are they a new company? Sub-Zero is an old company and did a lot of commercial production for many years. Only cooks and the like had their boxes in their kitchens. I don't have the address here (I'm in my office now) but I'll look at home. I know I have it there. I'll post a message to you with their phone number at least. I think they have an 800 #. I'll let you konw. Aloha, --==Ziggy==-- INTERNET: dadoc@hol.com Well, got back to this message before it was sent out. The number is (800) 222-7820 I called them the other day and asked for their brochures/catalogue. They tell me it's no the way. --- ~ SLMR 2.0 ~ If vegitarians eat vegetables, beware of humanitarians! REFRIGERATORS --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (668) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:44 By: Lawrence Lucier To: All Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b364 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lawrence Lucier @Subject: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? @Message-Id: <4023.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:44:08 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List ::To: All From: E. Michael Smith Subj: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? :: ---------------------- > recipe for alternative diesel fuel, and wonder >if anyone can give me EMS> Yes, this is right and it works. I did it with Soybean oil. EMS> The basic conclusion I came to was that you could run just about > anything oil derived if you got the viscosity close to #2 Diesel, > if it was clean, and if had a good enough cetane rating (which could > often be fixed by adding Kerosene). Just a note to say.....great post!! Don't know if I'll ever get around to playing with this stuff but it sure made interesting reading! EMS> Manager of Stuff Grin....love it! < Walks away muttering " There's so much I don't know about.....> ... Be excellent to each other; Party on, dudes! Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (669) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:46 By: Ian Woofenden To: All Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b365 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ian Woofenden @Subject: Peddle Power? @Message-Id: <4066.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:46:08 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On (30 Nov 94) Jim Bilderback wrote to All... JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle JB> and not sweat too much? Enough to run the TV . Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. I scanned the TOC of the last 6 or 8 issues and didn't see anything else. But I know there have been other article on pedal power in the past year or so. Maybe someone has an index of HP handy. Also, I'm pretty sure there was an ad for a single person pedal-powered unit for sale in one or more of the back issues. The back issues of HP are well worth owning, IMO, providing a liberal education on the subject. Ian ... A noisy noise annoys an oyster. Peddle Power? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (670) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:48 By: Michael Totten To: All Re: Re: PV response curves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b366 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Michael Totten @Subject: Re: PV response curves @Message-Id: <4101.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:48:14 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Ken Zweibel's outstanding book, Harnessing Solar Power, The Photovoltaics Challenge (Plenum Press, NY, 1990) provides a section on your question. Sorry I don't have it at hand. Michael Totten Director, Center for Renewable Energy & Sustainable Technology (CREST) 777 N. Capitol Street N.E., Suite 805, Washington, DC 20002 Phone: (202) 289-5368 Fax: (202) 289-5354 EMAIL: mpt@crest.org WEB: http://solstice.crest.org/ Gopher: gopher.crest.org FTP: ftp.crest.org On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Chris Schroeder wrote: > I was wondering if anyone could explain why the response curves for solar > cells are limited on the end of higher energy. I know that the lower bound > is related to the energy gap of the semiconductor, but I can't find a > corresponding explaination for the higher bound. Any comments would be > appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Chris Schroeder > cschroed@willamette.edu > PV response curves > Re: PV response curves --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (671) Wed 7 Dec 94 15:50 By: "Linda B. Best" To: All Re: Re: First Hello to Group ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b367 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Linda B. Best" @Subject: Re: First Hello to Group @Message-Id: <4142.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 15:50:14 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List THANKS FOR THE RESOURCE SUGGESTIONS. I'LL FOLLOW UP ON THIS. LINDA > >From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil > > >If your going overseas in a Peace Corps type situation, on of the books I >recommend you get is VITA's "Village Technology Handbook". It's US$19.95, >which includes US 4th class postage. The ISBN for the english (English?) >language version is 086619-275-1. You cold check it out in a library befor >you buy it. > >Here's VITA's entry in the Virginia Solar Council's resource guide, a special >edition of SolarDex. > >Volunteers In Technical Assistance (VITA) >1600 Wilson Blvd 5th floor >Arlington VA 22209 > Contact: Brij Mathur > Phone: 703-276-1800 >InterNet: bmathur@vita.org >Books for third world, developing, underdeveloped countries, and folks going >there to help. Back to basics life-style information. >Their books are distributed by Books International > Phone: 703-435-3248 > >Bob > >InterNet: r.myers/g-t05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil (That's g - t ZERO 5) > Voice: 202-267-1355 (Work) Postal: ETCM Bob Myers > FAX: 202-267-4106 (Work) U.S. Coast Guard (G-TPS-4) > AmRad: KB2DHK 2100 Second Street SW > Washington DC 20593-0001 > >---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- >****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** > > Date: Dec 6, 1994 10:18 AM Message ID: 199412061538 > > Copies: > Blind CC: > Attach: > Subject: Re: First Hello to Group > >RICHARD, I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT "THE WATERHEART PROJECT." >I MAY BE GOING TO A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY WITH THE PEACE CORPS JULY >1995. IF SO, I HOPE TO BE DOING SOME WORK IN "NEW" ENERGY PROJECTS- >-SUCH AS PV, SOLAR HOT WATER, ECETERA. I'M CURRENTLY COMPILING ALL >THE RESOURCES I CAN FIND TO HELP FACILITATE ANY FEASIBLE ENERGY >PROJECTS. LINDA >P.S. I'M A LOW TECKY WHO LIKES TO INTERNET WITH HIGH TECKIES TO GET >THE JOB DONE--YOU DESIGN; I MARKET-- CONCEPTS THROUGH PUBLIC >EDUCATION. > >> >>Cathy: I am heartened also to hear form the "low teckies". I'm >assuming that >>John Duffy is one of your co-workers, hello John. Have you >contacted CREST >>(Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technologys) in DC? >Contact >>Christopher Gronbeck at "gronbeck@access.digex.net" Outside of >the normal >>sources, that I'm sure you already know of, they are a relatively >new source >>and growing rapidly. >> >>I'm currently working on what I call "The WaterHeart Project" >>The first item being developed is a low cost heliostat for >internal building >>Daylighting and / or solar concentrator systems. The Heliostat >will stand >>alone as a viable product in the US as a low cost replacement for >existing >>heliostats. It is also simple enough to be transferable to the >developing >>countries. I'm in the patent process now. >>The second is a low tech solar fueled steam ("atmosphere") engine >that will >>develop 1 to 2 HP (shaft). This engine has deliberately been >designed to be >>as low tech as possible to allow construction in the developing >countries. >>Would you believe it's mostly wood? >>The goal of the project is to teach the "village blacksmith" shops >of the >>world how to produce there own energy systems for water pumping, >agricultural >>equipment, small shop power etc. Cottage Industries. The >>"Teach-Them-How-to-Fish" approach or better yet >"Learn-Together-How-to-Fish". >> >>I'm still in the design stage but will be building prototypes >soon. I would >>like to hear more from those with actual experience in the LDCs >to give us a >>reality check on what is really "appropriate". >>For one on one e-mail to mudywater@aol.com >>------------------------------------------ >>In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an >otherwise >>barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where >little feet >>splash happily in the muddy water. >>------------------------------------------ > >-- >Linda B. Best >E-Mail : lbest@transylv >Internet: lbest@transylv.ces.ncsu.edu >Phone : (704) 884-3109 >Re: First Hello to Group > -- Linda B. Best E-Mail : lbest@transylv Internet: lbest@transylv.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (704) 884-3109 Re: First Hello to Group R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (674) Wed 7 Dec 94 14:49 By: R.Myers/G-T05 To: All Re: Ice on blades ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b378 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: R.Myers/G-T05@cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil @Subject: Ice on blades Date: 7 Dec 1994 14:49:04 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: "Pam", a spray on cooking coating, works well on snow thrower auger blades. Another idea is some of the new silicone containg car "wax" products. Both are slipery and may reduce the build up by allowing the ice to be slung off by centripidal force. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ****** FORWARDED MESSAGE ****** Date: Dec 7, 1994 11:30 PM Message ID: 199412071235 From: AE%SJSUVM1.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU/cgsmtp To: Multiple recipients of list AE Copies: Blind CC: Attach: Subject: Ice on blades Those of you having problems with ice on your blades, might like to experiment with coatings to prevent ice forming. Some things you might try are: 1) Various oils or fats 2) Glycerine 3) Vaseline 4) Margarine I take no responsibility for any of the above adversely affecting the materials of which your blades are made. You may wish to run independent tests on something else first! Robin van Spaandonk Ice on blades --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (676) Wed 7 Dec 94 9:53 By: LEBR9069%SNYPLAVA.BITNET To: All Re: Re: Selling power on the grid.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b37d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: LEBR9069%SNYPLAVA.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU @Subject: Re: Selling power on the grid.... @Message-Id: <21028.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:53:40 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >From: IN%"AE@SJSUVM1.BITNET" "Alternative Energy Discussion List" 6-DEC-1994 18:39:34.47 >To: IN%"AE@SJSUVM1.BITNET" "Multiple recipients of list AE" >CC: >Subj: Selling power on the grid.... > >Return-path: >Received: from VM.CNUCE.CNR.IT (MAILER@ICNUCEVM) by splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu > (PMDF V4.2-11 #3312) id <01HKC09C6CZ496FRGU@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>; Tue, > 6 Dec 1994 18:38:54 EST >Received: from VM.CNUCE.CNR.IT (NJE origin LISTSERV@ICNUCEVM) by > VM.CNUCE.CNR.IT (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6423; Tue, > 6 Dec 1994 22:59:02 +0100 >Date: Tue, 06 Dec 1994 16:38:34 -0400 >From: allen dale sylvester >Subject: Selling power on the grid.... >Sender: Alternative Energy Discussion List >To: Multiple recipients of list AE >Reply-to: Alternative Energy Discussion List >Message-id: <01HKC09MJKK696FRGU@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu> >X-Envelope-to: LEBR9069 >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >If, lets say, someone built themselves a windmill farm, or a stationary >alcohol powered generator (the larger commercial type generators, like >you find as backup generators at hospitals, etc), or whatever, and built >it on their own budget, (meaning, a non-business setup) and found that >they had more than enough energy being generated....is it possible to >sell this energy back out on the normal power grid? > >For instance, my brother is a farmer in Kansas, and we want to build a >grain-alcohol distillery and generate power to run the irrigation >systems. When not irrigating, can we sell the power we generate and get >a little income from the utility companies? > >Thanks! >Allen Sylvester >asylvest@indiana.edu >Selling power on the grid.... Re: Selling power on the grid.... --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (677) Wed 7 Dec 94 5:11 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: ELECTRIC CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b38a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) @Subject: Re: ELECTRIC CARS @Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 05:11:17 GMT John O'hara (John.O'hara@f1.n374.z1.fidonet.org) wrote: : There is an Electric Vehicle Symposium at Disneyland December 3, 1994 for : details call 800-247-5990 ext 2 at least they picked an appropriate place. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]NETCOM (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (678) Wed 7 Dec 94 5:14 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: Unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b38c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: dbrewste@netcom.com (Dick Brewster) @Subject: Re: Unsubscribe @Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 05:14:09 GMT JOHN APPLETON (APPLETM6@spanky.badm.scarolina.edu) wrote: : Please unsubscribe me from the Alternative Energy list. : Thank, : John Appleton : 74721.3634@compuserve.com : appletm6@spanky.badm.scarolina.edu : Unsubscribe Sorry, but its not that simple. WE have to take a vote first. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]NETCOM (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (679) Wed 7 Dec 94 7:43 By: bill wright To: All Re: Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b38e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Bill@survival.demon.co.uk (bill wright) @Subject: Re: Peddle Power? @Reply-To: bill@survival.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 07:43:51 +0000 @Message-Id: <786786231snz@survival.demon.co.uk> @Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <3bvo6k$1vq@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> g8907489@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "Paul Clayton" writes: > In article , > Jim Bilderback wrote: > > EH> > > > Our normal "load" is a twelve volt muffin fan pointed right in my face > > > I've seen 12 volts at half an amp (into a resistive load) so I guess i > > > wanted to sweat a LOT you could make 10 watts. (I was working pretty > > > to make six.) > > > > > > >Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially more > >power .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. > > > > * JABBER v1.2 * > > > A couple of months ago I saw a show that breifly mentioned the power > output capablilities of a well conditioned athelete. The said that the > maximum output for short spurts is about 2.2 hp (1650 watts) and for > sustained periods ie. marathons 0.4 hp (300 watts). Don't forget that > there will be mechanical and electrical losses, so your net electric > power will be considerably less. > > I hope this helps. > > Paul C. > > I make pedal powered generators single person and four person powered. > > The average person can produce virtually continuously an electrical output > of 75 watts. > > My single person generator can produce up to 140 watts at 12 volts, four > person generator 300 watts continuouse and 1000 watts was managed for a > short time. > > The pedal generators were originally designed for a flying doctor service > in Tanzania to power a shortwave transmitter receiver but later used to > run sounds at music festivals. > > Best of Luck with your work. ===================================================================== ========== E-Mail: bill@survival.demon.co.uk Voice: +44(0)171 987 3240 Fax: +44(0)171 515 9467 ===================================================================== =========== --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Surviva (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (680) Wed 7 Dec 94 17:13 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b395 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds @Message-Id: <9373.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 17:13:19 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List re: experiment station--there is a Wooster, Ohio, with the College of Wooster there. Is that perhaps what you were talking about? College of Wooster is not part of any university. Anyone else know about that time period in Ohio? btw, I didn't go to school there but it is a very fine school. Marge Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (681) Wed 7 Dec 94 17:21 By: Dirk Brandts To: All Re: Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b397 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Dirk Brandts @Subject: Re: Peddle Power? @Message-Id: <10248.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 17:21:53 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle JB> and not sweat too much? Back in my hippie days, a clever friend and I installed a seat and peddle arrangement in the corner of his kitchen. It turned a shaft on which he could place various "food processor" blades, a juicer, and a blender. It made a lot of great smoothies until the novelty wore off. We always thought that it would be great to use peddle power to run the TV. I attended the last SEER conference in Ukiah this summer, and a fellow had a similar rig to generate electricity. It was hardly the most efficient construction (a salvaged Schwinn, the back rim belted to a scavenged VW alternator, I think). The device was wired to an array of light bulbs, four incandescent next to four compact flourescent. It was a fantastic educational experience, though, as I peddled my little heart out trying to keep the incendescents burning, then feeling the immense relief when the current was switched over to the compact flourescents. I immediately gave up the idea of powering a TV, but did run right over to a vendor who sold me enough compact flourescents for our whole house, and we really like them. Regards, Dirk Brandts UCSB Anthropology Graphics Lab Re: Peddle Power? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (682) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:03 By: Pete Bergstrom To: All Re: Alternative Economy Philosophy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b39e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Pete Bergstrom @Subject: Alternative Economy Philosophy @Message-Id: <12868.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:03:04 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >>>>> On Wed, 7 Dec 1994 08:21:28 -0500, Lee Butler said: > It is amazing to me that the estemed members of this board have allowed my > personal style to become the main issue. Am I being excluded from further > postings? If I am, it just shows why nothing is working in the world. No > one is allowed to speak. I don't think anyone would like to see you (or others) excluded from posting. You still have the right to free speech - but I retain the right to ignore you. > The power of the word and the truth is obviously > so threatening, that few people can stand to hear the debate. Speaking personally, the tone of your rhetoric masks most of the content (truth) and leaves me unwilling to wade through your writing. Pete Alternative Economy Philosophy R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (683) Wed 7 Dec 94 17:38 By: DBHolmes To: All Re: The SunPipe Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b39f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: DBHolmes@aol.com @Subject: The SunPipe Company @Message-Id: <11364.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 17:38:32 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List The SunPipe Company regularly advertizes in Solar Today magazine. They list there address and phone number as follows: The SunPipe Company P. O. Box 2223 Northbrook, IL 60065 708/ 272-6977. Perhaps the Missouri address is a local dealer (?). DBHolmes The SunPipe Company --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (684) Wed 7 Dec 94 17:40 By: Troy Savage To: All Re: You DO Have Rights! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3a0 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Troy Savage @Subject: You DO Have Rights! @Message-Id: <11413.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 17:40:36 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Wouldn't it be nice, if you had the power and the means to do so, When was the last time you had an attorney represent you for a Message-ID: Sender: news@iglou.com (news) Organization: IgLou Internet Services Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 01:57:08 GMT Lines: 24 The next time a contract and pen are shoved in your face with the command "Sign Here!" wouldn't it feel good to walk over to the fax and announce, "I would like my attorney to go over this first". The notice from the IRS arrives, can you afford to call an attorney? Ever had a legal question you needed answered but did not want to pay for an attorney's time? ALL of this and more (covers almost any legal concern) is possible and available to anyone! What health insurance is to doctors, this is to attorney's fees. Costing (depending on your state of residence) between $11.00 and $16.00 a month. For more information Email pplegal-request@iglou.com and in the body of your message put 'info please'. Or call Troy Savage at 502-245-1447. -- You DO Have Rights! --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (686) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:39 By: RSTEGEMAN To: All Re: Muddy water-introduction ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3a5 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: RSTEGEMAN@aol.com @Subject: Muddy water-introduction Date: 7 Dec 1994 18:39:10 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <941207121706_7950774@aol.com> Muddy water-introduction I'd like to start a thread on the challenges, low tech approaches and success stories in developing renewable energy sources in the Less Developed Countries (LDCs). There have been some great posts in this area but I find myself swamped by the other AE and RE posts on the board. If we could have a common subject header it would be easier to zero in on the ones dealing with the LDCs. To me "muddy water" brings up all sorts of wonderful images. The village square water fountain with kids playing in the splashover. The irrigation water feeding green shoots. So I'm starting this using "muddy water" but anything would do that would make sense to all. If those interested in this topic could easily identify the thread by the subject header "Muddy water-xxxx" (or whatever) it would save a lot of time. Am I crazy? I'd like some feedback. Thanks: Richard Stegeman For one-on-one e-mail please respond to. mudywater@aol.com (one "d") (helps me separate it from the deluge of mailing list mail) *************************************** In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an otherwise barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where little feet splash happily in the muddy water. *************************************** --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (688) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:05 By: KathyB3959 To: All Re: unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3a8 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: KathyB3959@aol.com @Subject: unsubscribe @Message-Id: <13217.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:05:34 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List please unsubscribe unsubscribe --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (689) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:35 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: ELECTRIC CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3ab @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Dick Brewster @Subject: Re: ELECTRIC CARS @Message-Id: <18911.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:35:41 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List John O'hara (John.O'hara@f1.n374.z1.fidonet.org) wrote: : There is an Electric Vehicle Symposium at Disneyland December 3, 1994 for : details call 800-247-5990 ext 2 at least they picked an appropriate place. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com Re: ELECTRIC CARS --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (691) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:48 By: Marlene Vogelsang To: All Re: Re: FERC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3b3 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marlene Vogelsang @Subject: Re: FERC @Message-Id: <19768.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:48:49 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List FERC is the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission RE: FERC --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (692) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:44 By: Dick Brewster To: All Re: Re: Unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3b4 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Dick Brewster @Subject: Re: Unsubscribe @Message-Id: <19430.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:44:53 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List JOHN APPLETON (APPLETM6@spanky.badm.scarolina.edu) wrote: : Please unsubscribe me from the Alternative Energy list. : Thank, : John Appleton : 74721.3634@compuserve.com : appletm6@spanky.badm.scarolina.edu : Unsubscribe Sorry, but its not that simple. WE have to take a vote first. -- Dick Brewster dbrewste@netcom.com Re: Unsubscribe --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (693) Wed 7 Dec 94 13:08 By: Jonathan Allan To: All Re: Re: LED Lighting Efficiency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3b5 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: xzz0529@rs48069.rchland.ibm.com (Jonathan Allan) @Subject: Re: LED Lighting Efficiency Date: 7 Dec 1994 13:08:02 GMT @Message-Id: <3c4c3i$1et8@locutus.rchland.ibm.com> The current issue of HomePower (#44?) has an article in it on the LEDs. These begin to look more and more promising. Jonathan (I need a new nightlight) Allan -- * Nobody except me has any stake in this opinion, and * * if I'm playing Devils Advocate, even *I* don't. * * Don't bother emailing, it'll bounce. * --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]IBM Roc (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (694) Wed 7 Dec 94 18:45 By: bill wright To: All Re: Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3b6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: bill wright @Subject: Re: Peddle Power? @Message-Id: <19466.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 18:45:54 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In article <3bvo6k$1vq@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> g8907489@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca "Paul Clayton" writes: > In article , > Jim Bilderback wrote: > > EH> > > > Our normal "load" is a twelve volt muffin fan pointed right in my face > > > I've seen 12 volts at half an amp (into a resistive load) so I guess i > > > wanted to sweat a LOT you could make 10 watts. (I was working pretty > > > to make six.) > > > > > > >Elvis ... thanx for the feedback. I was hoping for substantially more > >power .... drat. I would have guessed more like 30-50 watts. > > > > * JABBER v1.2 * > > > A couple of months ago I saw a show that breifly mentioned the power > output capablilities of a well conditioned athelete. The said that the > maximum output for short spurts is about 2.2 hp (1650 watts) and for > sustained periods ie. marathons 0.4 hp (300 watts). Don't forget that > there will be mechanical and electrical losses, so your net electric > power will be considerably less. > > I hope this helps. > > Paul C. > > I make pedal powered generators single person and four person powered. > > The average person can produce virtually continuously an electrical output > of 75 watts. > > My single person generator can produce up to 140 watts at 12 volts, four > person generator 300 watts continuouse and 1000 watts was managed for a > short time. > > The pedal generators were originally designed for a flying doctor service > in Tanzania to power a shortwave transmitter receiver but later used to > run sounds at music festivals. > > Best of Luck with your work. ===================================================================== ========== E-Mail: bill@survival.demon.co.uk Voice: +44(0)171 987 3240 Fax: +44(0)171 515 9467 ===================================================================== =========== Re: Peddle Power? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (695) Wed 7 Dec 94 11:48 By: THOMAS HELLDORFF To: All Re: Re: sign off folks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3be @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: THOMAS HELLDORFF @Subject: Re: sign off folks @Message-Id: <23551.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 11:48:57 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Mr. Lee Butler/all I really understand your tension to sign off. You bring in new ideas but hardly nobody is willing to even thing about your ideas. I think most of your communication partners (if you can call this communication ) have already gone through the brain-washing machineries like universal studies. To be open for new ideas they would have toaccept that most of the things they have learned up to now might be worthless from one second to the other; ten or even more years of hard studies for nothing!?! (Mr. Karer, responsible for education at Olivetti London mentioned last weekend on a conference that it would take him one month to unlearn people coming from universities, to make them open for the real life) Please, Mr Lee Butler, don't give up; you have some readers who at least accept your point of view, and maybe even support your way of thinking. At least I do. To all the others: Wake up; do not hide yourself behind books and common ideas. Remember how long it took that mankind accepts that the world is round. You, signed in in this list should be the last ignoring his point of view. Try to find out more about all that! I'm almost 20 and I found out a lot - it was not hard at all. t.j. PS: sorry for my english, I'm not native re:sign off folks --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (696) Wed 7 Dec 94 12:32 By: Robin van Spaandonk To: All Re: Photovoltaic wrap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3bf @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Robin van Spaandonk @Subject: Photovoltaic wrap @Message-Id: <24638.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:32:15 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 04:40:00 -0800 >From: Howard Smith >Subject: Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wr [SNIP] >Copied without permission from the Nov/Dec 1994 SOLAR TODAY, a magazine >published by the American Solar Energy Society. > >Solar Cell Roll > >Joint research between Advanced Research Development, Inc. (ARDI) of >Athol, Massachusetts and the U.S. Department of Energy's Argonne >National Laboratory near Chicago will focus on developing a "solar cell >on a roll." The product, as presently conceived, would look like a >plastic wrap, be stretched over a frame and wired, and would then >convert sunlight into electricity with a projected 70 percent efficiency >(see SOLAR TODAY, May/June 1993, "A New Solar Electric Invention, page >24) > >The three-year, $1.8 million, cost-shared project will develop this new >solar technology that uses a film instead of layers of semiconductors to >convert light into electric power. The project plans to incorporate >photo-active molecules developed by Argonne into electrically >conductive, stretchable film developed by ARDI. Argonne's molecules >convert solar energy into electrical energy with greater than 99 percent >efficiency. > >For more information, contact Dave Baurac, Argonne National Laboratory, >9700 South Cass Avenue, Argonne, Illinois, 60439, (708)252-5584. > >hhs >Photovoltaic Crap (eh, wr R ______________________________________________________ I live in Australia, and don't fancy the cost of an international call. If someone local calls the above number for more info, could they be so kind as to post the result to the list? Any info would be welcome, but an email address for Dave Baurac would be great. TIA, Robin van Spaandonk Photovoltaic wrap --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (697) Wed 7 Dec 94 12:34 By: Robin van Spaandonk To: All Re: Re: alcohol fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3c0 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Robin van Spaandonk @Subject: Re: alcohol fuel @Message-Id: <24890.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:34:38 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:09:43 -0800 >From: hochman >Subject: alcohol fuel > >I recently heard from a well known expert on automobile technologies that >alcohol based fuels are impractical since alcohol is highly hydrophilic >(water absorbing). He said that every test program so far has been >scrapped due to rusting gas tanks, fuel lines etc. All stainless steel >parts would be needed. Does anybody have any ideas concerning this? > >John H. >alcohol fuel __________________________________________________________ Yes! Idea # 1. Once as a child, I found the solution to this problem and coincidentally many others. To this day it remains tucked away in the back of my mind. As children will, I was playing at heating things up with the flame on the gas stove. At the time, this happened to be a steel fork. When I removed it from the flame, I accidentally brushed it against the plastic of a polyethylene bread bag. The very thin plastic film immediately fused onto the metal. It even retained its pattern. I tried unsuccessfully to burn this layer of plastic off in the gas flame. It remained stuck to the fork, for as long as I can remember, through many cycles of use and washing up. For those of you wishing to play around with this, the temperature may be critical. I may have been very lucky. It seems to me that this could provide a very cheap method of protecting sheet metal from chemical corrosion. I just now tried dissolving a piece of plastic bag in aftershave(alcohol base). It didn't appear to have any effect. This leads me to believe that the above method might work. The plastic could be fused to the sheet metal while it was still hot in the steel mill, thus saving the need to place any unnecessary demands on the environment by reheating the metal at a later stage in the process. This would mean that gas tanks etc. could be constructed from chemically resistant cheap sheet steal. Tubing etc. may still need to be made from stainless steel, copper, or whatever, however I suspect that the gas tank would be the largest part of the cost, if it were made from stainless steel. Idea # 2. Place a small amount of moisture absorbing substance (e.g. silica gel) in a small hollow space in the cap of the gas tank. This will dry the air above the fuel in the tank, preventing it from absorbing too much moisture. When you fill the tank with alcohol, you replace the moisture filter as well. These can be "regenerated" by heating (e.g. left out to dry in the sun on a day with low humidity?), to drive out the absorbed moisture. The potential problem with this solution, is that such a substance would need to be more hydrophilic than alcohol. I'm not sure how many non-toxic, non-polluting substances would meet this requirement. Robin van Spaandonk P.S. Any industrialists out there, wanting to use this, please feel free to send me a cheque, if you happen to feel grateful. (You never know what else I may have that is useful). Re: alcohol fuel --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (698) Wed 7 Dec 94 12:36 By: Robin van Spaandonk To: All Re: Ice on blades ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3c1 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Robin van Spaandonk @Subject: Ice on blades @Message-Id: <24941.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:36:56 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Those of you having problems with ice on your blades, might like to experiment with coatings to prevent ice forming. Some things you might try are: 1) Various oils or fats 2) Glycerine 3) Vaseline 4) Margarine I take no responsibility for any of the above adversely affecting the materials of which your blades are made. You may wish to run independent tests on something else first! Robin van Spaandonk Ice on blades --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (699) Wed 7 Dec 94 19:53 By: "Heather J. Scott" To: All Re: NREL summer research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3c3 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Heather J. Scott" @Subject: NREL summer research @Message-Id: <23109.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:53:57 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Thanks to all who responded to my plea for help. I called the number for Associated Western Universities that April Allderdice posted to the list and it worked. They're going to send me application materials for NREL's student participant program. Again, thanks to all for your suggestions! I'll let you know how it turns out. Heather ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ Heather J Scott-2 at the {} "The dedicated life University of Minnesota {} is the life worth living. You must give with your whole heart." scot0042@gold.tc.umn.edu {} -Dillard ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ NREL summer research --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (700) Wed 7 Dec 94 16:51 By: Mike To: All Re: Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3c6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mike@Graphics.Cornell.edu - LITC VAX System Support Mgr @Subject: Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds @Message-Id: <7642.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:51:59 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >From: Boaz Rahat >Does anyone know how stratification of water is maintained in solar >ponds (such as exist in the experimental facility in the Jordan valley >for example)? The principle of operation there, as I understand it, >is that the hot water at the bottom of the pond is also more saline, >and stays heavier than the top strata. Thus hot water does not rise to >the top to lose heat. >How are winds prevented from mixing the water? Does anyone have an >idea whether baffles are used? Any information on their spacing, how >they are held in place, etc.? Long long ago in a previous lifetime... Back in the early 70's? I visited the "Woster Experiment Station" in Woster Ohio, part of OSU?? They were working on this for the heating of green houses. What I remember is that the "rule of thumb" for size was to make the "pool" equal in volume to the space to be heated. They were using salt water to stop convection, just as you say. There were no baffles, but the "pool" was covered with some kind of plastic to keep rain water from mixing in. I forget which was on top and which was on the bottom, but they filled it by floating a sheet of plywood on the surface with a hose attached to the top such that the water being added flowed smoothly over the plywood, preventing any unwanted mixing. I can't recall exactly how they added the salt to the water, but seem to remember that they did it in distinct stages, not in a gradually varying concentration. Mike Schroeder Drive Electric today, breath easier tomorrow schroeder@nhqvax.sanders.lockheed.com RE: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (701) Wed 7 Dec 94 16:58 By: Tony Tweedale To: All Re: a response & a querry, from 2 posts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3c7 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tony Tweedale @Subject: a response & a querry, from 2 posts @Message-Id: <8195.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 16:58:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > From: Bob Myers > Subject: "CALCULATES VIOLARTOR'S ECONOMIC BENEFITS FROM NONCOMPLIANCE" > > I received a postcard advertisement for "COMPLIANCE SOFTWEARE DIRECTLY FROM > THE EPA" from Machalec Communicatons, Inc. NTIS Order Dept., 1401 West 76th > St, Minneapolis MN 55423. > > The text contained the following: > > " Source: Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Enforcement > Summmary: > The model calculates the ecomonic benefit that a company gains by > delaying payment necessary for compliance with environmental regulations or > permits. While the primary purpose of the BEN Model is to calculate the > economic benefit of EPA regulation NONCOMPLIANCE ..." Capitalization of the > word "noncompliance" is mine. > > Questions: > > 1. Why should it be economically advantageous to not comply with > regulations? epa and other agencies base their fines in part on recovering whatever benefit the violator gained by not complying (until they're amount is knocked down later (just being cynical)). eg, by not stack emissions according to an air quality permit, a factory can produce more/use less raw materials w/out regard to emissions. ben also calculates profits from any competetive advantage gained against market competitors. > 2. Why is the EPA telling people that? > 3. Why is my tax money going towards a project like this? now you know they're saying the opposite, so it's a good use of taxes. > 4. Why is some company receiving $148.00 per copy for something my tax > dollars paid for the development of? good question, i'm forwarding your message to epa. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - the querry: > From: List Bill Kovarik > Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels Avialable??? (fwd) > will not be very satisfactory because you wont take advantage of alcohol > higher useful compression ratio. Alcohols are actually far more efficient > (and therefore clean burning) than gasoline. followed by: > Gasoline has about 120,000 BTU per gallon > Ethanol has about 80,000 BTU per gallon > Methanol has about 60,000 BTU per gallon is this counterintuitive, or am i stupid? i'd think that a fuel that combusts more completly might have more btu's per unit... a response & a querry, from 2 posts --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (702) Wed 7 Dec 94 19:06 By: Mike To: All Re: Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3c9 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mike@Graphics.Cornell.edu - LITC VAX System Support Mgr @Subject: Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds @Message-Id: <20633.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:06:30 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >From: Marge Wood >re: experiment station--there is a Wooster, Ohio, with the College of >Wooster there. Is that perhaps what you were talking about? College of >Wooster is not part of any university. Anyone else know about that time >period in Ohio? btw, I didn't go to school there but it is a very fine >school. It was a long time ago, as I said, but I don't think it is part of Wooster College. Maybe it is part of the Agreculture Extension Service. I know it was definately agreculture related. I've always wanted to try it for a residence. But a pool the size of a house gets pretty expensive. The idea, of course, is that it stores enough energy through the summer to heat the building all winter. They were being hindered by the slow cycle of experiment. Everything they wanted to do took a year to exepriment with. If you want to know, you could call Wooster College, I'm sure they would know of it even if it isn't their facility. That "very fine" school was an arch rival of sorts... I went to school at Ashland College in Ashland Ohio, which is very near. :) Mike Schroeder Drive Electric today, breath easier tomorrow schroeder@nhqvax.sanders.lockheed.com Re: Prevention of mixing water strata in Solar Ponds --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (703) Wed 7 Dec 94 19:47 By: "Marvin G. Beshirs" To: All Re: Re: The SunPipe Company ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3cb @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" @Subject: Re: The SunPipe Company @Message-Id: <22628.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 19:47:36 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List This could be the case. I never checked with them. --May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes! e-mail at mbeshirs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us !Please! On Wed, 7 Dec 1994 DBHolmes@AOL.COM wrote: > The SunPipe Company regularly advertizes in Solar Today magazine. They list > there address and phone number as follows: > > The SunPipe Company > P. O. Box 2223 > Northbrook, IL 60065 > > 708/ 272-6977. > > Perhaps the Missouri address is a local dealer (?). > > DBHolmes > The SunPipe Company > Re: The SunPipe Company R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (704) Wed 7 Dec 94 20:59 By: Richard Stegeman To: All Re: Muddy water-introduction ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b3cf @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Richard Stegeman @Subject: Muddy water-introduction @Message-Id: <26616.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 20:59:10 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Muddy water-introduction I'd like to start a thread on the challenges, low tech approaches and success stories in developing renewable energy sources in the Less Developed Countries (LDCs). There have been some great posts in this area but I find myself swamped by the other AE and RE posts on the board. If we could have a common subject header it would be easier to zero in on the ones dealing with the LDCs. To me "muddy water" brings up all sorts of wonderful images. The village square water fountain with kids playing in the splashover. The irrigation water feeding green shoots. So I'm starting this using "muddy water" but anything would do that would make sense to all. If those interested in this topic could easily identify the thread by the subject header "Muddy water-xxxx" (or whatever) it would save a lot of time. Am I crazy? I'd like some feedback. Thanks: Richard Stegeman For one-on-one e-mail please respond to. mudywater@aol.com (one "d") (helps me separate it from the deluge of mailing list mail) *************************************** In my minds eye I see a green oasis of crops and cottages in an otherwise barren landscape. Solar pumps create this patch of plenty where little feet splash happily in the muddy water. *************************************** Muddy water-introduction --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (705) Sat 10 Dec 94 12:56 By: Daryl Carswell To: All Re: wood stoves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3666/108.0 8775C0BA @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11b 94-0025 HI all, I've heard a lot of talk about outside wood stoves that heat your house by water somehow. I forget what they are called. Anybody got one and do you like it? Daryl * SLMR 2.1a * In this office we backup the backup of the backup of... --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11b * Origin: G-2 BBS 4 Lines/30,000+ Files (704) 324-6164 (1:3666/108.0) @PATH: 3666/108 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (707) Sat 10 Dec 94 8:49 By: Fritz Oppliger To: Jim Bilderback Re: Re: Peddle power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 8abd2246 JB> > Also, Real Goods has (had?) an kit for sale, to convert a bicycle. I h JB> > seen their sourcebook in a while, but maybe they can still get 'em. JB>i'll stop by their store next time i'm down that way. JB>(i gather they're doing rather well in the business) yeah - new building in hopland going up. nice catalog - nice gadgetry - hi class yuppie junk - much money. JB>anybody in the woods using these? seems like a great way to let the kids JB>burn off some energy, emergency backup, etc. I built one for my neighbor, bicycle/ car alternator offa the rear wheel. Was to be his exercise rig, but not used due to lack of space (yeah sure). WOuld put out 5 amps on short spurts, and maintaining 3 amps is pretty hard work. First version had the spoke area of the rear wheel filled with concrete, to make a flywheel. Alas it was poorly balanced and the bearings clearly weren't up to it. Used laundry line for a belt. Space IS a major consideration tho. And noise. I like the idea. Would make watching TV so much more 'correct' --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (708) Sat 10 Dec 94 13:44 By: Fritz Oppliger To: Ian Woofenden Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 8abd826d IW>On (23 Nov 94) Fritz Oppliger wrote to All... IW> FO> When the weather gets cold it sometimes slips from standby IW> FO> (on-demand tick tick) mode into slumber. No ticking, no IW> FO> response when I turn on a load. The remedy is simple, I run IW> FO> out to the inverter, press the ON OFF button twice (once for IW> FO> nominal OFF, then ON again) - and it will come to life. IW> FO> Anybody know about this? anything I can do to avoid it? light IW> FO> a candle under it on cold nights? IW>Here's my guess: IW>It's not the inverter's fault. It's your *batteries*. They are cold, IW>not as efficient when cold, they are not charged enough, and the IW>inverter is shutting down to protect them. Happens all the time IW>around here, since we tend to be running close to the wire on power IW>in the cold dark winter. What is your regular status on the TRACE? I mean, is it in tick2 (=ticktick) mode or do you run permanent AC loads? Mine has never yet shut down when there was a load on it (xept due to overvoltage while the batteries were being charged) - it just goes into limbo from tick2 mode when it gets cold. IW>If I have to run to the switch more than once I know that it's time IW>to fire up the gen or at least turn off some loads - checking the IW>voltage, of course. IW>I have the LBCO (low battery cut-out) option on mine, but I'm IW>thinking even the stock inverter had (has) a cut-out when the IW>voltage gets really low. I'm not sure I do. There is a BATTERY LOW indicator LCD but I have NEVER seen it come on yet. I think my batteries are not THAT low. Anyhow, when I go to start the inverter back up the temperature has not risen at all and yet the trace starts beating its little heart without complaint. The voltage never goes below 12VDC. Even after running the gen the previous evening - if the night is cold I can pretty much rely on the inverter being comatose in the morning. Remember I have the inverter idling (in auto load detect mode) during the night. THere are no significant DC loads either - unless I can't sleep. The cordless phone and a 6V radio adapter is about all. I guess I should be more sigh-end-tiffick about it all, put the thermometer right in with the trace, and one with the batteries (ten inches away in a box) plus hook up some independent measuring equipment to monitor heart (I mean TRACE) rate, voltage etc... IW>The folks at Trace are pretty good about answering questions, so you IW>might want to call to get their opinion. Indeed I shall. Thanks! --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (709) Sat 10 Dec 94 15:18 By: JAMES ROWE To: STEVE WILLIAMSON Re: Re: PASSIVE SOLAR HEAT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:7920 F58A7A40 -=> Quoting Steve Williamson to All <=- SW> 09/14/94 SW> 3:00pm SW> Hello to all: SW> I am interested in any and all info pertaining to Passive solar heat. SW> What did you build? How did it perform? How much energy did you save? SW> Did your passive project take up a lot of space? How much did it cost? SW> I built a passive solar Water heater out of a ten foot piece of PVC SW> pipe. It is sealed at both ends and uses the thickest end caps. I then SW> drilled a hole on one side through the cap & pipe that a 3/4 fitting SW> would fit into. Then I turned the pipe so the other side would be up. SW> Then I drilled another hole the same size & glued another 3/4 SW> connector. I set it in a case w/45deg sides & a flat back. three 1x6 SW> boards w/ribs built into the frame to steady the frame & hold the ten SW> ft pipe. I used a 36in roll of thin aluminum sheet twelve ft long SW> nailed to the inside of the three sided frame as the sun reflector. I SW> ran some high heat 3/4 pvc pipe as the hot water pipe & used common pvc SW> for the cold side. Then all is insulated with sawdust. The hot pipe has SW> its own tube made out of 1x4's filled w/sawdust. the cold is the same SW> way. The whole affair is setup at an aggle that puts the hot side 1.5ft SW> above our w/heater. We then set the angle to face the sun. SW> Work?? you bet. We turned our gas w/heater off fifteen mos ago & SW> havent had too use it again,EVER. This is fantastic. Where do you live? I have been told that this sort of thing wouldn't work in this area, but I think about six months out of the year it would be practical. I live in Rochester NY where it gets rather cold in the winter, but people seem to think that this means that solar powered anything is impractical. It seems to me that they just don't want to THINK!! Please let me know if you have success with the passive home heater idea. I'm pretty tired of supporting the nuclear/petroleum industries, and want to find ways to preserve our land. Thanks in advance....jr ... TOGETHER WE ARE STRONG ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GOMail v2.0s Beta [94-0367] * Origin: Enviro-Link BBS, Rochester, NY (716) 359-0008 (1:2613/208) @PATH: 2613/208 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (710) Sun 11 Dec 94 10:32 By: Jim Bilderback To: Fritz Oppliger Re: Re: Peddle power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 8bbd1054 FO> > yeah - new building in hopland going up. > nice catalog - nice gadgetry - hi class yuppie junk - much money. i saw the hopland site ... and presumed that customers might be financing it :) > I built one for my neighbor, bicycle/ car alternator offa the rear > wheel. > Was to be his exercise rig, but not used due to lack of space (ye > sure). > WOuld put out 5 amps on short spurts, and maintaining 3 amps is prett > hard work. still a reasonable amount of power, i guess. do u suppose the field current, etc ate into this much? > First version had the spoke area of the rear wheel filled with > concrete, to make a flywheel. Alas it was poorly balanced and the > bearings clearly weren't up to it. > Used laundry line for a belt. > Space IS a major consideration tho. > And noise. hadn't considered noise. > I like the idea. Would make watching TV so much more 'correct' make for a bit of life appreciation. it's amazing how much energy we can buy (short term, anyway) for $1. spoz i should wander by CCAT at hsu and see what they've done in this way. thanx for the feedback ... jb * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (715) Wed 7 Dec 94 21:27 By: Doug Heaton To: Gale Barrows Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:342/501@fidonet aa950045 @PID: FM 2.02 >>I've recently come across this recipe for alternative diesel fuel, and wonde > r >>if anyone can give me some more info about it. >> >>Ingredients: Vegetable oil (can be used oil, if filtered) >> Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) >> Methanol Gale: There is a professor at the University of Idaho who is studying this subject seriously. The carbon backbone for an average diesel molecule is 20 (!) carbon atoms long. Canola oil has a similar carbon backbone but with a solitary double bond of no consequence in the middle. Esterification of the carboxylic acid group on the end of a canola oil molecule with either methanol or ethanol, catalyzed with potassium hydroxide under anhydrous conditions, gives as very high yield of "diesel" fuel. Wash the "diesel" with water before use to remove the KOH. Carrying out the esterification with water present produces very low yields due to the reversible hydrolysis reaction. The U of Idaho Agricultural Faculty has been running its tractor on this stuff for several years to examine the effect on the engine, fouling of fuel jets with deposits and so forth. They reckon that the canola oil yield from six acres will produce enough "diesel" fuel to meet the needs of an average Idaho farm. The ultimate scenario is a field of canola, a field of wheat for fermentation to alcohol, a little lye and a distillation unit, and any farmer could be fuel independent. Sounds like Utopia. Doug. --- * Origin: ** Doug's Domain **, Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada (1:342/501) @PATH: 342/501 35 61 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (716) Thu 8 Dec 94 22:02 By: Doug Heaton To: Gale Barrows Re: Veggie Diesel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:342/501@fidonet ab15748a @PID: FM 2.02 >>I've recently come across this recipe for alternative diesel fuel, and wonde > r >>if anyone can give me some more info about it. >> >>Ingredients: Vegetable oil (can be used oil, if filtered) >> Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) >> Methanol Gale: Further to my previous message, I checked up on some of my facts. The source of my information was a paper entitled "Biodiesel, Alcohol Esters of Vegetable Oil: Ethyl Ester of Rape Oil" by R. Korus, D. Hoffman, N. Bam and D. Drown, Department of Chemical Engineering, University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho, 83843. It was delivered at the 18th Annual Conference of the Solar Energy Society of Canada, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, July 4-8, 1992. For further information contact Dr. David Drown. Vegetable oils are triglycerides of fatty acids. Rape oil (canola) contains approximately 51% erucic acid with a carbon backbone of 21 carbon atoms. Biodiesel can be prepared by transesterification using alcohol and KOH (or equivalent) as catalyst with glycerin as the byproduct. Optimal conditions are room temperature, 0.5% sodium methoxide by weight of rape oil (canola), 50% excess absolute ethanol, extremely vigorous agitation with some splashing initially until a homogeneous mixture is achieved then mild agitation for two hours. Washing with water should be carried out with gentle agitation to minimize emulsification. Research has showed that if agricultural land will yield 2,000 pounds of repeseed per acre and if 7 gallons of biodiesel per acre will satisfy the annual fuel requirements for all farm operations, then approximately 6.5% of a farm's acreage will produce sufficient biodiesel for the entire farm. A preliminary cost analysis showed a breakeven cost of $2.00/U.S.gallon in 1991 dollars for biodiesel. A 27 HP Satoh tractor has been powered at the University of Idaho with 100% biodiesel since 1987 with satisfactory performance. However some fouling of the fuel injectors was seen after 200 hours of operation. Trust this satisfies your curiosity. Doug. --- * Origin: ** Doug's Domain **, Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada (1:342/501) @PATH: 342/501 35 61 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (719) Wed 7 Dec 94 10:00 By: Ian Woofenden To: Arlo Hagler Re: warm batteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 59ddef1b On (05 Dec 94) Arlo Hagler wrote to Ian Woofenden... AH> As for the batteries, perhaps one of those 12v. heating pads AH> I've seen in AEE and/or Real Goods catalog, placed beneath AH> the batteries. Probably a better way, tho'. Ideas, anyone? I wonder where the point of diminishing returns is - when you use more power on heat than you gain in efficiency. I'm thinking of blowing warm air into my battery box from the hot loft via a pipe. I think having them in a space that is heated anyway is best. Ian ... This country was FOUNDED by religious nuts with guns! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (720) Wed 7 Dec 94 10:04 By: Ian Woofenden To: Dadoc Re: REFRIGERATORS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 b156066e On (02 Dec 94) Dadoc wrote to Ian Woofenden... D > Sub-Zero is an old company and did a lot of commercial D > production for many years. Only cooks and the like had their D > boxes in their kitchens. D > The number is (800) 222-7820 I called them the other day and D > asked for their brochures/catalogue. They tell me it's no the D > way. Thanks. I called too and will look forward to seeing what they have to offer and how it compares to Sunfrost. At some point I would like to make or buy a freezer, so it will be good to look at all the options. Ian ... Coming soon to a universe near you! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (721) Thu 8 Dec 94 8:50 By: Ian Woofenden To: Fritz Oppliger Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 ea21eac4 @REPLY: 1:125/42 86bd543c On (06 Dec 94) Fritz Oppliger wrote to Ian Woofenden... IW> It's not the inverter's fault. It's your *batteries*. They IW> are cold, not as efficient when cold, they are not charged IW> enough, and the inverter is shutting down to protect them. IW> Happens all the time around here, since we tend to be running IW> close to the wire on power in the cold dark winter. FO> Yabut, the voltage never drops below 12 and it always starts FO> up without complaint. Seems like COLD is doing it: it will FO> cut out / slumber off even when the batteries are relatively FO> full, and NOT do it when they are empty but the weather is FO> just a wee bit warmer (still cold but not COLD). Maybe time FO> to make some more scientifgic measurements of COLD eh? Interesting. That does make it sound more complex than I was guessing. OTOH, I'd do some careful observation just to make sure you are not jumping to conclusions. I'd carefully measure the volts and amps before the temperature, unless the manufacturer confirms your theory. Your batteries could be full, but if you are pulling a load that brings the voltage down near the trip point, the inverter could shut down. It doesn't have to go below 12 volts to trip the low battery cut-out. Mine can trip at 24.1 to 24.3 volts (24 volt inverter) depending on how much I'm drawing at the time. I'd check with the manufacturer (Trace?) to see what it is set at. It may be user programmable - I can't remember. My experience is that the cold doesn't affect my Trace 2024. It is essentially *outside* and doesn't trip because of that. The batteries, OTOH, are seriously affected by the cold. Of course, there could actually be something wrong with your inverter, but it seems wisest to find out how it is supposed to function before assuming that. Just my two cents, Ian ... Clinton makes Nixon look truthful and Carter competent. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (722) Thu 8 Dec 94 8:58 By: Ian Woofenden To: Jim Bilderback Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 19996b52 @REPLY: 1:125/42 86bd746b On (06 Dec 94) Jim Bilderback wrote to Elvis Hargrove... JB> Somewhat related: It's pretty amazing how little power it JB> takes to move a person and bicycle along at 10mph! (if it's JB> on the order of 10 watts or so) I have heard it said that a man on a bicycle is one of the most efficient ways to travel. That assumes you don't have much to haul though, of course. But it does make you think what we could learn from that. Ian ... I dreamt I was a muffler and woke up exhausted! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (724) Fri 9 Dec 94 12:09 By: Gale Barrows To: Kerry Miller Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <18248.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> KM>I too haK KM>e been wondering when the ecology of the indoors is going to take a KM>stand: KM>the place for plumbing is outadoors. Why go to all the trouble of making KM>a KM>nice warm dry weather-tight house and then put a KM>high-humidity-generating KM>shower et cetera in the middle? sounds like rethinking time to me. Like great Gramps said at the last barbeque, "I don't understand things today. Folks cook in the back yard and go in the house to relieve themselves !!!" Myself, I think the greatest invention yet is the heated seat for the outhouse, especialy when it is 20 below zero !!! Now we don't even have the Sears catalog. But we do have Computer Shopper. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (725) Fri 9 Dec 94 12:22 By: Gale Barrows To: Kendall Willets Re: LED Lighting Efficiency ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <3buntm$4mp@kadath.zeitgeist.net> KW>For purposes of comparison, a 60-watt bulb is about 700 lumens, so 12 of KW>these LEDs would outshine the bulb and consume .44 Watts. Of course, KW>the light is red, but for many uses that's sufficient. I tried one of KW>these LEDs in a flashlight, and it really does seem bright! For many if not most uses (at least mine) a red light from a flsh light is an advantage as it does not damage the users "night vision" as much as white light. Just remeber when and how a flash light is normaly used. It is used when the white light source has failed and probably will not be used continualy untill white light is restored. If a white flash light is used, say to find your way across an area, when you get to the destination your eyes have become adjusted to white lightin relative abundance. Turn off the white flash and you are blind for awhile till your eyes readjust. Use a red falsh and your eyes do not have to readjust so much to use what light is available when you turn off the flash. In all my vehicles, I have red instrument lights and red interior lights. For night driving I can see out of the car much better. I can even turn on the interior lights to read a map or such and not have to let my eyes readjust so long to get my full vision accuity back when the lights are turned off. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (726) Fri 9 Dec 94 12:37 By: Gale Barrows To: Bob Myers Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? In reply to 199412030058 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <11644.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> In a message of , Bob Myers (unknown address) writes: BM>From: Bob Myers BM>Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:19:59 GMT BM>Truckers use #2 heating oil in place of #2 diesel. Wehn they get BM>caught, by BM>the Fed or the Staties, the pay the big Kio-Buck fine. How do they get BM>caught? The Feds had mandated red dye in the heating oil. BM>Beware, some "enterprising" on road diesel dealers are putting #2 fuel BM>oil in BM>the #2 on raod diesel and charging the tax paid price for it. If that's BM>not BM>bad enough, you pay the fines if you get caught. BM>No, I don't know of a filter to get rid of the red dye. And some folks are putting red dye in the legal (tax paid and low sulphur formulated) fuel and keeping a good paper trail to prove the taxes have been paid and the fuel is low sulphur. In this way they hope to frustrate the dye scheme the feds use with the idea of lowering enforcement and/or requirements of the low sulphur fuel where it is not environmentaly required which is most of the country. Another problem with the dye scheme is that some of the prefered fuel additives added to the vehicle tank are red colored and give a red tint to the blended fuel. There have been users subjected to the fines falsely because the additive gave a false indication. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (727) Fri 9 Dec 94 12:47 By: Gale Barrows To: Mryka Hall-Beyer Re: Re: wood heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <14916.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> MH> Have you just set a pan of water on the top of the stove to MH>evaporate? MH>I tested out my humidity level yesterday, and it was 75% in an MH>exclusively MH>wood-heated house with one saucepan constantly on the stove, not MH>boiling. Just out of curiosity, I just checked the humidity in my place. 40% on the nose. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (728) Fri 9 Dec 94 11:53 By: Tony Pereira To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: MILK JUG SALVAGE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Malcom ! Milk jugs to uranium, quamtum leap... N-o-t elements, Pa231, Ph232 or Sr87, but isotopes, same element of U238 with 232 atomic mass, I believe it is stable, does not emit a, b or n. I understand military doublespeak, would be nice to clear this one. Pax terra. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (729) Sat 26 Nov 94 1:49 By: Mark Whitaker To: All Re: STATPOWER CHARGERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone out there have any experience with Statpower's truecharge chargers? Good or bad, I would love to hear. To read their brochure of course one would assume that they're the best thing since sliced bread! I need a charger to be able to equalize, run equally well on a generator as on the grid, be cheap, be about 20-40 amps or so, and be quiet. I like my Statpower inverter, and their chargers look good if the advertising is to be believed. thanks mark ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (730) Tue 29 Nov 94 12:13 By: Carol Dollard To: Dana Laude Re: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATURES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The device that you throw in your stove to put out chimney fires is called a CHIMFEX. They cost 5 or 10 bucks and no one with a wood burner should be without one. The way it works is to produce a dense smoke for ten minutes or so which robs the fire of oxygen. Remember that it only "buys you time" because the fire will reignite when the chimfex burns out. So throw it in the stove and call 911 ASAP. In addition, they will not work well in a fire place or leaky stove (you need to get the air source shut down). One other note, as a volunteer firefighter, I have seen many chimney fires and chimney related fires. I clean my chimney a lot more than once a year (4 or 5 times during the heating season). Its an ugly job, but not that hard, and I don't want to take any chances. Also, if you did not install your wood burner, tear into the wall enough so that you can inspect how it was done. We had three fires last year that were the result of poor chimney installation (pipes too close to combustibles). And last but not least, make sure you have at least one smoke alarm that works. Replace the battery every spring and fall when you change your clocks for daylight savings time. Wood burners are great heating devices, but I see too many people that just light 'em and use 'em without proper maintenace. You can bet those are the ones who we'll be getting paged out to in the middle of the night to try and save their house. Adios. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (731) Fri 2 Dec 94 12:12 By: Michael Welch To: Dave Paxton Re: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I recommend looking 2 places: local propane dealership and local classified weeklies. >been almost useless to me. I understand the light >and the THERMOSTAT were 120 volt operation. So, I was wondering if any of yo My propane refrig uses 4 D cells for lighting, and no electricity for thermostat. It is a Consul, and it works GREAT and uses very little propane. Best of luck. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (732) Fri 2 Dec 94 12:17 By: Michael Welch To: Dick Dillman Re: GREENPEACE TRAILER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have left 3 voice messages in the last couple of months to see if we could get Arcata's Renewable Energy Fair on the list of visit sites for Greenpeace's solar system trailer. No return calls. Can you get someone to give me a voice call at Redwood Alliance (707)822-7884? Also, it would be great to publish an itinerary here when one is available. BTW, I'm leaving the message here instead of elsewhere to make sure our BBS is sending out local messages ok. Thanks for all. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (733) Fri 2 Dec 94 0:14 By: Mark Whitaker To: Dave Paxton Re: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Dave Paxton to All <=- DP> maybe even a chest type freezer. Amana was aparently the last American DP> manufacturer and it would have been almost useless to me. I understand DP> the light and the THERMOSTAT were 120 volt DP> operation. So, I was wondering if any of you people out there with your DP> ear to the ground know of anyone that sells used gas powered refers? Alternative Energy Engineering of Garberville, CA sells two different LP fridges, a Servel by Dometic, with a 120VAC backup, and an all gas Consul. the Servel has 7.7 CF capacity, and the Consul has 7.8. The ph# for AEE is 800/777-6609. I'm sure these must be fairly available anywhere tho.. mark ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (734) Sun 4 Dec 94 0:57 By: Mark Whitaker To: Arlo Hagler Re: HELLO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Is this Arlo Hagler the electrician? I helped you put wiring in Paul Schulman's house in Whale Gulch last February. Just thought I'd say hi, anyway. Still in Portland, but I now have PV power for my computer anyway; getting the hang of it. later mark whitaker ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (735) Mon 5 Dec 94 12:34 By: Tony Pereira To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: RE: MILK JUG SALVAGE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Malcom ! Thanks for the info. There's been awhile since I done Nuclear Physics. I have a very clear memory that there is an non-rad isotope of U238, form the ten or so know, in the lower range. It is quite possible that what you are saying is true. I would like more info and references to check it out. I understand what you are saying. Pax terra. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (736) Tue 6 Dec 94 8:34 By: Michael Welch To: All Re: PEDDLE POWER? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IW>Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 pedalle Hey gang, just a reminder that all back issues of Home Power Magazine, including HP#43 and soon #44, are available for download on Redwood Alliance's BBS. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (737) Tue 6 Dec 94 9:01 By: Michael Welch To: All Re: OUR INFO-SERVER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Redwood Alliance's Home Power BBS now has Internet e-mail. One of the advantages of this is that we have info-server capability. The following info is available: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The following should answer commonly asked questions about the HPBBS and its sponsors. For your requested info, please address e-mail messages as follows. Remember, spelling and punctuation is critical for e-mail. It is not important what the text of the message says. The appropriate info will automatically be sent by return Internet E-Mail courtesy of Redwood Alliance's BBS system: info needed use this address ----------- ---------------- What's Home Power Magazine?: hp.whats@homepower.org Subscription Form for HP Magazine: hp.sub@homepower.org Home Power Magazine business: advertising, sub costs, back issues, etc. hp.bus@homepower.org Info about obtaining articles via modem and about Redwood Alliance's non-profit Home Power BBS, sponsored by Home Power Magazine and others: hp.bbs@homepower.org Home Power Magazine articles index: hp.index@homepower.org Writing for Home Power Magazine: hp.writers@homepower.org Info about the Solar1 CDROM: solar1.cdrom@homepower.org This text file, that you are reading right now. hp.info@homepower.org Info on Home Power on the Internet hp.internet@homepower.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ Addresses of individual Home Power Magazine staff are: michael.welch@homepower.org michael.hackleman@homepower.org kathleen.jarschke-schultze@homepower.org therese.peffer@homepower.org clare.bell@homepower.org richard.perez@homepower.org karen.perez@homepower.org bob-o.schultze@homepower.org dan.lepinski@homepower.org sam.coleman@homepower.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ To reach the system operator for Redwood Alliance's Home Power BBS, leave him a message at: sysop@homepower.org --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (738) Tue 6 Dec 94 11:43 By: John Stanley To: Ian Woofenden Re: TRACE INVERTER COLD FEET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IW>Don't know about the original questioner. Mine are "outside" the building in IW>their own insulated box. I really need to get some heat to them, or get IW>ni-cads IW>that don't mind the cold so much. I don't have the inside space now, and run IW>wood shop, so I'm concerned about keeping the batteries dust-free if I bring IW>them in. Ian, I shelled out a fortune for 80 ED-160 reconditioned ni-cads. They now sit unused because after a year of use because they won't even hold enough charge to get me through the night. I now have 24 Trojan L-16's in an insulated, heated garage. The only reliable ni-cads are new ones, and they cost a king's ransom. It would be far more economical for you to get some heat into the battery box. The problem is how to do it without introducing a source of ignition. I've heard of people running a 100W lightbulb into the box as a heater. If you wanted to heat the batteries with propane, you could pour a concrete slab embedded with hydronic heating tubing. A small, thermostatically controlled, low-voltage motor would pump water/glycol from a small propane-fired water heater into the slab underneath the batteries. John (jstanley@solar.win.net) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (739) Thu 8 Dec 94 9:13 By: Michael Welch To: Dick Dillman Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Dick, I'm beginning to wonder if my HOMEPOWR Fidonet messages are going out. Please let me know if you (or anyone else) are seeing messages coming out of the Home Power BBS. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (740) Thu 8 Dec 94 0:35 By: Mark Whitaker To: E. Michael Smith Re: VEGGIES AND DIESELS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would *really* love to hear any info you have about running diesels on veggie oil. Is it necessary to modify the pump or injectors? I am thinking specifically of VW diesel engines. I know only basic diesel theory, and am not an engineer or anything. I am a fairly competent mechanic, and I've loved the diesel VW's I've owned. (even when they got so old that they just wouldn't start anymore :). thx mark ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (742) Sat 10 Dec 94 8:40 By: Mark Richardson To: Ian Woofenden Re: DIESEL ALTERNATIVES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ian, I'm currently investigating a Mother Earth News report of running straight soyoil in a diesel engine w/o major modification. I live in NE Arkansas in the heart of rice, cotton, and soybean country. Could you imagine the economic impact to farming and transportation if soyoil could augment petro-based fuels? If you have any specific resources or points of contact to pass along it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (743) Sat 10 Dec 94 8:57 By: Mark Richardson To: John Mccarthy Re: RE: E-Z HOME AQUACULTURE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You might look into the same setup as done by The New Alchemy Institute: "The Book of the New Alchemists" 1977, Dalton Press; and any more recent publications of theirs. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (744) Sat 10 Dec 94 17:04 By: Michael Welch To: Dick Dillman Re: HEY, MAN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Dick, a couple of things. First, this is kind of a test, because I think that my local homepowr echo messages aren't going out. Second, What's going on with the Greenpeace solar trailer. We would really like it to power this year's renewable energy fair in April, but can't get anyone to return my calls. Also, it would be great to publish the trailer's schedule in this echo. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (745) Sun 11 Dec 94 9:34 By: Dick Dillman To: Michael Welch Re: Re: GREENPEACE TRAILER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Your BBS is working fine, Michael. Regarding "Cyrus", our alternative energy sun power truck, who did you call and at what number? I'd be happy to help but it would be useful to know who you have already attempted to contact. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (746) Sun 11 Dec 94 9:35 By: Dick Dillman To: Michael Welch Re: Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Dick, I'm beginning to wonder if my HOMEPOWR Fidonet messages are > going out. Please let me know if you (or anyone else) are seeing > messages coming out of the Home Power BBS. Loud and clear, Michael. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (747) Sun 11 Dec 94 9:37 By: Dick Dillman To: Arlo Hagler Re: Re: ANYBODY KNOW ABOUT VEGGIE DI ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I recently heard, on the radio, an account of a group of women who > did a > cross-country trip in a Volvo diesel, powered by recycled veg. oil. > They made > an arrangement w/ a chain of burger franchises, to pick up their > used oil. > They processed it on-site, I believe, a matter of filtering and > adding lye. > Now, that's recycling! Yep, the lard mobile came through San Francisco a couple of months ago. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (748) Sat 10 Dec 94 13:13 By: Gale Barrows To: Jim Stauffer Re: Woodstove ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:271/270 87276fac JS>I don't understand buying a $1900.00 wood stove. I bought my stove at JS>Lowes for $250.00 a couple years ago to save money. I did not want to JS>get into a high tech or yuppie-preppie-over priced wood stove with a JS>RED door! Also, why buy a wood stove just so I can go buy a $25.00 JS>bag of wood pellets every week? Just don't understand, but they are JS>selling as fast as they can get them in. I am strongly considering a pellet stove to replace the propane furnace in my trailer. Quite possibly I would go to a unit outside the house connected by air ducts. One thing is that I probably will not burn wood pellets. Coal is atractive as it is not far to the Wyoming fields. However, corn sounds the best. It is usualy cheap and even cheaper if the lower grades are used. Moldy, smutted or other low grades of corn with little market value are still fine for fuel. To top it off, I still own 159 acres of farm ground and I could take junk corn as rent. No cash outlay for fuel and I have my own truck so I could haul about 3-400 bushels a trip myself. Now if I had a still, I could even make my own truck fuel out of that corn and still have the left overs from distilling for furnace fuel. (how's that for coming close to self sufficiency ? ) --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (749) Sat 10 Dec 94 13:28 By: Gale Barrows To: Jim Bilderback Re: Re: Peddle power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:125/42 88bd5160 > > pretty sure there was an ad for a single person pedal-powered uni > > for sale in one or more of the back issues." > > Also, Real Goods has (had?) an kit for sale, to convert a bicycle. I h > seen their sourcebook in a while, but maybe they can still get 'em. > JB>i'll stop by their store next time i'm down that way. JB>(i gather they're doing rather well in the business) JB>anybody in the woods using these? seems like a great way to let the kids JB>burn off some energy, emergency backup, etc. Several years ago, there were a couple articles in Mother Earth News (70's ?) covering bike generator conversions. Supposedly one of the authors had the kids reate enough juice to run the TV and required this be the power source for Saturday cartoons. Seems cartoon watching soon dropped off !!! --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (750) Sat 10 Dec 94 13:33 By: Gale Barrows To: Jerry McBride Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:266/28.0 ee7b3ee1 GB> When i was in the military, we used an engine (built by GB> Lycoming ?) in our 2 1/2 ton trucks that could use vegetable GB> cooking oil as a fuel, straight. It also could use gasoline, GB> diesel, peanut oil, soybean oil, diesel, jet fuel and many GB> other flammable liquids. I have often wondered why that GB> technology has not been further developed and applied to GB> smaller civillian vehicles and equipment. JM>That's easy. Multi-Fuel engines are inherently expensive. If you ever JM>raised the hood on that truck or looked at the service/maintenance JM>manual, you'd agree. May be getting the chance soon !!! There is an auction the 15th of December at the local DRMO. There are 3, 5 ton Dump trucks on the sale that have multi fuels in them. The trucks are in various stages of disrepair but I may well get a couple with the intention of using one for a parts truck. If the engines are too bad, I might just go back to gasoline as I have a spare engine for that truck already. 602 cubic inches of gasoliner burner is going to gulp fuel though !!! The multi fuel would be best for my use as I do not like diesel in cold weather so I could run diesel in the summer and gas when it gets cold. maybe two tanks, one gas, one diesel that I could switch back and forth. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (753) Sun 11 Dec 94 14:16 By: Doug Styles To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: T.A.G. 2.7b Standard @REPLY: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c4000ff0 @MSGID: 1:244/404 2eeb09a9 @TID: FastEcho 1.40 10218 *** Quoting Elvis Hargrove to Russ Williams dated 12-07-94 *** > > I'll never forget the looks I got when upon moving my trailer to a new > location, I was wandering around in the yard with a 40watt flourescent > burning > brightly as I tested out my inverted Vee installation. The neighbors on > each > side were FREAKIN OUT! Then I made the "Cut" signal, (Drag finger > across > throat) my wife cut the carrier and one old biddy almost fainted! > I appear to have shown up late. 8-). I'm very interestd in Nikolai Tesla, wht is this Coil you're talking about, how do you build one, and what was is original purpose? Doug Styles --- T.A.G. 2.7b Standard * Origin: Alone Bbs - Revolution Is Not Too Ideal (1:244/404) @PATH: 244/404 99 12/12 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (760) Mon 12 Dec 94 9:35 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Bob Myers Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? In ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BM> No, I don't know of a filter to get rid of the red dye. Throw in some blue, should come out brown, like old diesel. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (761) Mon 12 Dec 94 9:37 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Lee Butler Re: Re: Signing Off Folks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LB> From: Lee Butler LB> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 20:20:03 GMT LB> cmsa.Berkeley.EDU> LB> LB> Greetings earthlings and humanoid creatures, LB> LB> I am Commander Alpha of the Starship Nirvana. We have come to rescue the O.K. where do we send the money . . . --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (762) Mon 12 Dec 94 9:39 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Lee Butler Re: Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LB> All of this and more with a subscription to the Ekotecture Vision. Ah, now I know. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (763) Mon 12 Dec 94 20:25 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: L-Debaillie Re: Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- L> From: l-debaillie@CECER.ARMY.MIL L> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 1994 23:00:19 GMT L> cmsa.Berkeley.EDU> L> L> teeddoug@nbnet.nb.ca (Doug Teed) Wrote: L> | L> | I have a 10 x 10 solarium with 30 deg. sloping glass on L> | top. It can be L> | isolated from the house by sliding patio door. Problem: L> | extreme temp fluctu- L> | ations in summer & winter. Exhaust fan hooked to Another heat storage method that has worked; use black-painted 55 gal. drums filled with water to absorb heat in day, re-radiate at night. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (764) Mon 12 Dec 94 20:29 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: E. Michael Smith Re: Re: Anybody know about veggie diesel? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EM> In California, our 'New' diesel has a lower spec for allowed sulpher... Yes, along with decreased lubricating qualities, leading some truck engines to self destruct ... ah, the all wise government --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (765) Mon 12 Dec 94 20:39 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Brendan A Niemira Re: Re: PV that imitates photosynthesis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BA> When last I heard about this kind of PV film, they suffered serious perform BA> degredation after a year or two. Have they since been able to stabilize th BA> organic molecules to prevent the degradation/renewal cycle? I would of cou BA> never say that Mother Nature has got it all already figured out, but I'd be BA> curious to know how they got around this problem. BA> BA> Brendan A. Niemira BA> niemirab@student.msu.edu BA> Dept. Botany and Plant Pathology BA> Michigan State University BA> PV that imitates photosynthesis Brendan; I know very little about this stuff, read a couple of articles in - like - popular science or such. I understood they were working on a dipole effect dye molecule incorporated in a poly-? sheet and stretched to orient and dimension the molecules, also a micro etch process - pretty darn micro - to form purely physical antennae: BUT, is photonic energy really that similar to electromagnetic? I'd like to find out more about this, got any info or references? thanks, Malcolm --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (766) Mon 12 Dec 94 20:44 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: "Clyde R. Visser, Kd6Gwn" Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Home Completed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "R> What needs rethinking is your attitude after you've made the 3 AM dash to t "R> outhouse through the snow or rain a few times. If you were pregnant or had "R> diareha, you might change your mind more quickly. Of course, you could emp "R> the chanmber pot yourself every day. "R> "R> Heating water on a stove and taking a shower or bath in the kitchen might "R> give yo a different perspective also. Been there, Done that. It wasn't so bad, except the diarhea --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (767) Mon 12 Dec 94 20:57 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EH> I'll never forget the looks I got when upon moving my trailer to a new EH> location, I was wandering around in the yard with a 40watt flourescent burn EH> brightly as I tested out my inverted Vee installation. The neighbors on eac EH> side were FREAKIN OUT! Then I made the "Cut" signal, (Drag finger across EH> throat) my wife cut the carrier and one old biddy almost fainted! EH> Hey! sounds like fun . . . --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (768) Mon 12 Dec 94 19:26 By: James Rowe To: GALE BARROWS Re: Re: Anybody know about ve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Ingredients: Vegetable oil (can be used oil, if filtered) > Lye (Sodium Hydroxide NaOH) > Methanol EM>Yes, this is right and it works. I did it with Soybean oil. >1. Mix oil with 15% methanol and 0.5% lye. Heat on a stove and stir >constantly, without letting the mixture boil, for 40 mins. EM>I used 19% methanol and 1% lye (dry) by weight. I also did not use EM>any heat (72 F room temp) and let it sit about 1 hour after stirring. EM>Worked OK. GB> Why was the lye used? When i was in the military, we used an engine GB> (built by Lycoming ?) in our 2 1/2 ton trucks that could use vegetable GB> cooking oil as a fuel, straight. It also could use gasoline, diesel, GB> peanut oil, soybean oil, diesel, jet fuel and many other flammable GB> liquids. I have often wondered why that technology has not been GB> further developed and applied to smaller civillian vehicles and GB> equipment. What I would like to know is whether I can convert my normal Unleaded style engine over to something that could use this sort of fuel? I would rather stop supplying the petroleum industry with more money, so anything I can do I want to do. ... G.O.D.=Goodness Over Depravity, not Greed Over Decency! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- EzyQwk V1.02 * Origin: 1XIS,Webster,NY 28.8vfc,XA,CM (1:2613/119) @PATH: 2613/119 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (769) Mon 12 Dec 94 23:15 By: Jean Merrick To: All Re: GREAT NEWS ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:124/2113@fidonet.org c68041cb ************************************************************ *** *** **** Auto-Net Internet Automation v3.0 **** *** *** ************************************************************ AutoNet will be appearing in an Upcoming Internet BOOK from Que Publishing. Make sure and look for it! =-=-=-=-=-= NEW! =-=-=-=-=-=- *** New graphical, colorful interface! *** Added ability to specify PORT, PROVIDER, and SPEED inside Autonet.cfg Current command sent to modem is now displayed on the title bar Now has DIRECT CONNECT option for people with direct TcpIp access. Main menu added. Converted some windows to explosion-style windows. Add graphical effects to some menus when they close. Enhanced UQWK support for both personal and USENET group reading Added UPLOAD capability Added GETMAIL.1 and SENDMAIL.1 agendas, showing how to use UQWK for offline mail reading/responding. AUTONET OFFERS: Download TERABYTES of Internet files without forcing you to sit in front of your computer for hours. FREE new file leeching. Perform ARCHIE searches for files, at a variety of archie sites. Mail your letters automatically, even to hundreds of recipients. Allows super-advanced Internet access using a SHELL account. No expensive SLIP/PPP accounts required. Does FINGER searches quick and easy, and captures them into a file of your choice. Upload/Download files, FAX your associates across the Internet, FINGER, .QWK packets, USENET mail, LEECH Internet sites, all without being home! Full mouse support, hammers at Internet sites that are busy, obtain the latest sports, weather, and daily info, uses personal "signature file", Download Usenet BINARY files, post Usenet messages - up to 1,000 of them Fax people from the Internet, has "enhanced" terminal mode, complete with hotkeys and menus. Find the latest new files and games.. WHILE YOU'RE NOT HOME! Learn how to navigate the Internet with AutoNet's TEACH mode. Use an advanced scripting language to complete all your tasks. Get updates to your favorite programs automatically - direct from their support Internet site. Access the Internet with super-speed. You cannot type as fast as AutoNet can stuff the keys for you! Get a free TRIAL copy from local bulletin boards (filename AUTONT30.ZIP): FREQ: AUTONET from 1:124/7017 or mail: SEND AUTONET to autonet@unicomp.net AVRock - no login needed! (214) 606-1485 Hogard Software Solutions (214) 641-6292 Blues Cafe (214) 638-1181 MindLink (214) 221-9672 TechLine (214) 317-4345 Internet: wuarchive.wustl.edu /pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/utils The author may be contacted: autonet@unicomp.net CompuServe: 71441,2723 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: Lunatic Fringe * Richardson,TX * 214-235-5288 * (1:124/2113) @PATH: 124/2113 2105 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (771) Sat 10 Dec 94 18:35 By: Tom Porter To: Arlo Hagler Re: RE: PEDDLE POWER? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would >JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. > >JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle >JB> and not sweat too much? > > Enough to run the TV . That's a pretty good incentive to peddle, isn't it 8-^) ? > Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 > pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 > S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119..." > > There was an article in HP about a pedal-powered unit, based on a > Sears excercise bike, claiming 3 amps @12vdc. I don't remember the issue > #, unfortunately, but I believe it came out in 1990. Happy hunting. Hi - If folks would post the _Home Power_ Issues and the associated Table of contents, I'd be glad to complie a Data Base and make it available... If you would do a short key-word list for the article it would make the searches easier to perform for articles petaining to what you are searching for... (( Let me introduce ourselves/bbs - We are: Hotel California located in Ukiah, CA Home of Real Goods - they are locating a Super Show room in Hopland NEW Home of Mendocino Power Company We are interested in Amigas (we presently get about *10* Amiga Echos from the Fido Net), Biking, Backpacking, Camping, Computers, DeskTop Pubishing, Gaming (the Doom bug has hit here), HyperCard, Macintosh Computers, Men's Issues, Networking, Tele-Communications, ReCycling, and Alternate Engegy sources... Echos added if there is enough interest to justify them... Hoping to acquire the ABLED echo next (any know about the criteria for hook-up?) We have a varied group of people here from several platforms - from Artist, to Enthusiasts to Programmers, to teachers at the local Community College (teach computers, DTP, HyperCard), a couple of ladies are present to round us out. In addition to the above, we are trying to provide Service to the Community also - We will probably be carrying echos for Batteried, Abused, and Missing Children, as well as Job offers, Health and Enviromental issues... We are the Originators of the MendoNet (we're trying to network Mendocion County) and hope to have a connection the the VineNet, which has about 6 Nodes covering various other location in Grape County - we will have this as soon as the net originate can get Fido capability) -- If anyone would like to explore connectiing with us, we'd more than glad to talk to ya. We welcome those of like inclinations - Stop by and visit a while. <707> 468-5076 Cordially, Tom Porter SysOp)) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hotel_California (1:133/1499) @PATH: 133/1499 201 3656/120 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (772) Tue 6 Dec 94 21:55 By: Jym Dyer To: Jim Thisdale Re: Re: WATERFLOW POWER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- =o= Let's say you have a teeny generator in your showerhead pipe. Surely that would make enough to power, say, a ventilation fan. <_Jym_> --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (773) Tue 13 Dec 94 16:51 By: Lawrence London To: Michael Welch Re: WONDERING St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 ad905061 @PID: FM 2.02 > Hi Dick, I'm beginning to wonder if my HOMEPOWR Fidonet messages > are going out. Please let me know if you (or anyone else) are > seeing messages coming out of the Home Power BBS. > * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) Receiving you here in North Carolina. I'll check to see if your posts are reaching alt.renewable.energy on the Internet via the gateway provided by Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1), Durham NC and Wolve's Den, wolves.durham.nc.us, Durham NC and Planet Connect. Are you seeing Usenet newsgroup alt.energy.renewable posts in HOMEPOWR echo on your BBS? Lawrence 1:3641/1.502 london@sunSITE.unc.edu --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (791) Mon 12 Dec 94 0:49 By: Jeff Ansley To: All Re: SOLAR BOX COOKERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This article was written by Mark Hankins of Energy Alternatives Africa, a consulting and education firm based in Nairobi, Kenya. Solar cookers are often talked about as the answer to Kenya's fuelwood problems. Here's a brief report of his latest activity, a survey of the use of solar cookers that have been placed in the field. Solar cookers: an answer to the greenhouse effect? "Stop deforestation! Stop the greenhouse effect! Stop pollution! Save the environment!" These are the slogans with which solar box cookers are being promoted and large sums of money are being raised to bring this technology to the Third World. Solar cookers seem like a great idea. But are people using them? Do they really stop deforestation and the greenhouse effect? GEF Small Grants Fund funded a survey of solar cookers in Kenya to find out what is actually happening in five solar cooker programmes in the field. The survey was carried out by Climate Network Africa and Energy Alternatives Africa. Results show that most cookers are not in use. Reasons are varied: the cookers built by Dan Kammen's Earthwatch programme are literally falling apart; cookers are too small for large Kenyan families; the three-stone fire is still needed for all its other uses; women in urban slums and rural areas cannot leave the cookers alone for fear the cooker will be stolen or the food tampered with; most women are not sufficiently trained in the use of the cooker and can't afford the risk of spoiling the little food they have. The major problem, however, is in the way the cookers are disseminated. Women are the last to be consulted, and some project leaders said they were "bulldozed" into accepting solar cooking projects. The cookers are highly subsidized, and the survey did not find a single private entrepreneur selling stoves on the market. In answer to the question, "are solar cookers saving trees?", the answer is 'no'. The reason is that women are not the primary cause of deforestation and ghg emissions in Kenya. If stopping the greenhouse effect is the main reason for promoting solar cooking, then the primary target group should be American and European housewives who are cooking on fossil fuel-derived electricity. Does this mean we should give up on solar cookers? No, but we should apply the lessons learned from technology transfer in the past. Sustainable development starts with people, not with pieces of equipment. Contact: CNA or Energy Alternatives Africa, PO Box 76406, Nairobi, Kenya. Tel: +254-2-565616. Or jeff.ansley@wol.com --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (792) Tue 13 Dec 94 8:14 By: Jim Stauffer To: Bob Kelland Re: Effects Of windmill blade ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:271/270 8d273b59 To: BOB KELLAND On 12-05-94 BOB KELLAND wrote to ALL... BK> I am observing how a small tiltback windmill reacts to snow and ice BK> build-up on the blades. BK> BK> The windmill is homemade and has been operating since May 94. The BK> blade diameter is 40 inches (2 blades). Hey Bob, Could you tell me more about your homemade windmill? How did you build it and how much energy can you produce? Sorry to hear that the unit is not "weatherproof." Good luck! Jim...... * OFFLINE 1.58 * I know a good tagline when I steal one. --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Virginia Data Exchange (1:271/270) @PATH: 271/270 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (797) Tue 13 Dec 94 20:08 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Doug Styles Re: Re: Crystal Radio Light, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c6966c26 -> I'm very interestd in Nikolai Tesla, wht is this Coil you're talking about, -> how do you build one, and what was is original purpose? Tesla's coil was basically intended to transmit power over a (relatively) small area. It's just a reasonant high turns ratio coil with a short 'stinger' antenna. The rig I was speaking of was just my 40 watt Ham transmitter into a half wave inverted Vee antenna. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (798) Tue 13 Dec 94 20:10 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase Ho ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c6966c27 -> Been there, Done that. It wasn't so bad, except the diarhea Me too, but I aint NEVER gonna wanta do it again. 'Specially the diahrea! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (801) Tue 13 Dec 94 0:18 By: Tony Camillo To: Jim Stauffer Re: Re: Woodstove ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:271/270 8d27cc78 -=> Quoting Jim Stauffer to Tony Camillo <=- JS> You are so technical! I plan on running my exaust temperature around JS> 400 F. What RPM are you running your wood stove? Also, what color JS> flame is associated with 1700 RPM? Thanks for your help! Is it true JS> that you have a Doctors degree in Thermodumbnamics? I will stay warm JS> by your FLAME! I need to cool my computer screen with liquid nitrogen JS> to keep your FLAME from singeing my eyebrows! Yo Jim Thank you for the compliment. It must be hard being a woodstove erudite, like yourself !!! I'm surprised that you haven't painted flames on the side of your woodstove with all the mod's you've made !! Injecting the woodstove with gas as a stoker surely deserves a patent of some kind! Also, an award is needed for exceeding the temps your woodstove is putting out. I can think of only one other place that has these type of tempertures,"steel mills". I would definitely call the manufacturer and give them the results. Jim, I was wondering if you buy all of your wood at 7-11 ? Well, Mr. Steel mill ! I'll chat with you later. Stay Warm ! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Virginia Data Exchange (1:271/270) @PATH: 271/270 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (805) Sat 3 Dec 94 12:21 By: Lee Butler To: All Re: Sense of humour ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b746 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Lee Butler @Subject: Sense of humour @Message-Id: <4942.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 12:21:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I, like most of you, get up and XXXX every morning. I have the same frustrations, complexes and self destructive tendencies that all of you have.This morning, reading the fantastic replies I have received-generated on the internet has left me belly laughing, delighted and amused.I have finally arrived. I would rather be controversial than ignored. What none of you see every day is my appearance at our gallery showroom, featuring Ekotecture, Art,Music, Poetry and Ideas.It is the center of the new Palm Beach Institute of Environmental Arts and Sciences. An educational center devoted to creative communications. My iconoclastic style is abrasive to some and does frighten naieve people. I am as I am and I believe that I am good. If I frighten people it is because they do not choose to listen to my information and they know, subconsciously, that their lives are in danger. I have hard scientific proof that humankind need never again build another fire in order to live in the kind of creature comforts to which we have become accustomened. That scares the living hell out of most people because they make a living off of death, destruction or fire. They profit from the destruction or they enjoy doing things which cause the destruction of the earth and or they love fire. They love danger, destruction, etcetra. Most people believe they are going to die and then live their life & act accordingly. There is no proof what so ever that people must die. Simply because virtually everyone believes it does not make it true. I am a teacher. I have been rejected, ignored, threatened, silenced, denounced and crucified in the world by the media, but I survive, whole and intact. I am in possesion of my faculties. I am about to raise sevral hundred million dollars to finance a global solar gravity utility architectural manufacturing company. I have been working for 30 years to accumulate the expereince and knowledge to create and direct this new empire. What you wonderful people out there on the internet are wittnessing is an original script. I do not fit into any of the molds you are so quick to throw people into, I am a free thinker, a naked radical, threatening your daughter's virginity, her belief in men, and the rat race. I have been sent to inform everyone, regardless. The ignorant can not be allowed to perish or destroy the earth, simply because their expereince is not large enough to embrace what we are talking about. Twenty years ago, it was the high gurus of passive solar conferences who were my detractors. They could not understand the gravity convection geothermal solar envelope concept so they joked about it and condemned it to obscurity. It threatens people and it is not me or my responsibility that people are threatened. I am sick of being criticised for having the wrong approach. The world has to grow up and wake up and realize I am just the messenger. If some reader is getting up set at hearing all of the above I suggest it is them reliving the pain of rejection which I have gone through for the past thirty years. My own identity and point of view has been trashed and ridiculed by straight society since I was sixteen years old. At this point, not only am I used to it, but frankly, I ignore it. My job, which I did not choose, but was given to me by the source, is to keep other people thinking, transforming. I am very good at it. In less than no time at all, I have the whole world talking about me. I have them wondering what I am talking about. It is my time. I am finally in my element. I am a 55 year old architect who has a plan and a philosophy. I have a brain and a mouth. I am good at using both. I am a natural born leader. Thank you. Alpha Lee Rainbow Light Lee Porter Butler 620 Biscayne Drive West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 407-659-7656 Sense of humour --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (807) Sat 3 Dec 94 16:23 By: "Marvin G. Beshirs" To: All Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b74a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" @Subject: none @Message-Id: <16189.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 16:23:28 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Someone recently put out a request for information on where to buy light tubes for lighting interiors of homes. I did not know of anywhere to get these. Just as couple days later, an advertisement appeared in a paper from our electrical coop advertising just such a thing. I live in Missouri a ways south of Springfield. If the interestered party wants some information about this ad, then send me a reply via e-mail telling what kind of stuff they need such as address and name of company, then I will reply to them. --May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes! e-mail at mbeshirs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us !Please! To: ae 1 for list Message-Id: @Subject: Re: Sense of humour @Message-Id: <17988.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 16:59:48 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Sat, 3 Dec 1994 07:17:37 -0500, "Lee Butler" wrote: > In less than no time at all, I have the whole world talking about me. I > have them wondering what I am talking about. It is my time. I am finally in > my element. I am a 55 year old architect who has a plan and a philosophy. I > have a brain and a mouth. I am good at using both. I am a natural born > leader. Good morning, Lee! Personally, I've enjoyed the dialog that you've generated since joining AE though you might not appreciate my reasons. I've received several private requests to "do something" about you in my function as list owner. If you were a technological nay-sayer who preached "Fossil and nuclear energy forever", my decision would be easy. As an Eco-Messiah and as a natural born leader, I think that the AE list might not your best communication vehicle. I established the AE list to help advance AE *technology* itself, not AE activism nor personal agendas. There are activist oriented mailing lists and newsgroups that might be more appropriate. Or, better still, you may want to consider creating your own list to promote your plan and philosophy. I might even subscribe to it myself. If you like, I can forward some info on creating a LISTSERV based mailing list. I think that if we can discuss the technology itself, without making personal attacks or personal commercials, we'll be that much closer to a sustainable future. crv Re: Sense of humour --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (809) Sat 3 Dec 94 17:02 By: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" To: All Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b74d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" @Subject: alt.energy.renewable link @Message-Id: <18025.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 17:02:48 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Thanks to Mitch at Cornell.Edu, we now are bi-directionally linked to the usenet newsgroup alt.energy.renewable. To those of you who are reading alt.energy.renewable right now, let me introduce myself: My name is Clyde R. Visser and I am the list owner of AE, the Alternative Energy discussion list. I established this list a little over a year ago to facilitate positive communications on the subject of alternative and/or renewable energy technologies. The sci.energy newsgroup was a bit, er, acerbic at times on this topic. Since the charter of AE and alt.energy.renewable are essentially the same, we, the "AE People" decided to link up with the "alt.energy.renewable People". "If anyone objects to this union, let them speak now or forever hold their peace". Anyway, if you're reading the newsgroup and want to subscribe to the mailing list, here's a copy of the standard list announcement... AE on LISTSERV@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu - AE Alternative Energy Discussion Mailing List The AE Alternative Energy Discussion Mailing List is intended to provide a forum to discuss the current state of the art and future direction of alternative energy sources that are renewable and sustainable. It is *not* intended to discuss either AE appropriateness or comparisons with conventional energy sources such as fossil or nuclear fuels. Those "discussions" are best relegated to the appropriate usenet newsgroup. An alternative energy source is taken to include solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, electro-chemical, hydro-electric, or any renewable and sustainable energy source. It is also assumed to exclude fuels such as fossil and nuclear since these literally take an act of God to create. To subscribe to the AE mailing list, send the following command to the LISTSERVer at LISTSERV@SJSUVM1 (bitnet) or LISTSERV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU (InterNet): SUBSCRIBE AE firstname lastname After subscribing, you may enable the digest feature by sending 'SET AE DIGEST' to the LISTSERVer. After subscribing, messages may be sent to the list by sending to: AE@SJSUVM1 (bitnet) or ae@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu (InterNet). List owner: Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN crv alt.energy.renewable link --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (810) Mon 12 Dec 94 9:56 By: "VINCKENBOSCH To: All Re: Re: tracking frames ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b7da @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "VINCKENBOSCH@EIG.UNIGE.CH" @Subject: Re: tracking frames @Message-Id: <256.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 09:56:15 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List R Paul Rogers wrote: >By putting PV modules on a single axis tracking frame how much efficiency >will I gain? You could hope a pi (3.14) factor but due to attenuation at low sun angles you will only get between 1.8 and 2 improvement in electric output with normal tracking (perpendicular to the sun). This normaly requires two axes but you can set your axis to comply your needs (winter, summer) or seasonaly adjust (every 3 monthes) axis angle. The improvement factor depends on sky limpidity. As much important as global output you will also improve power availability along the day (sunny) and be able to reduce PV size as well as storage device. --------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Michel Michel Vinckenbosch vinckenbosch@eig.unige.ch Re: tracking frames --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (811) Sat 10 Dec 94 1:22 By: ifjed To: All Re: solar energy weenie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b7e2 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ifjed@NMSUA.NMSU.EDU @Subject: solar energy weenie @Message-Id: <23970.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 01:22:32 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I guess I'm just a clueless weenie when it comes to solar power, but reading solar energy brochures leaves me knowning nothing. My question is this, Can I afford to put solar energy into my house? My only major appliances are a freezer-refrig (less than five years old), a hot water heater, a stove/oven and my lighting. I don't have a TV, dishwasher, clotheswasher/dryer, computer, hairblower, shaver, air conditioner and anything else. I live at 8000 ft in southern New Mexico and, because of the aspect, the sun only shines on my house from about 10 to 4 this time of the year. Electricity, though non-renewable, is cheap (last bill was $65) co-op power. However, wind storms, which can occur at any time of the year, often disrupt power. But winds are probably not such that wind power is an option. Any solar energy wizards or gurus out there? solar energy weenie --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (812) Sat 10 Dec 94 1:51 By: "F. Arntz" To: All Re: Re: PV response curves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b7e5 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "F. Arntz" @Subject: Re: PV response curves @Message-Id: <25387.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 01:51:30 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Chris Schroeder wrote: > > > I was wondering if anyone could explain why the response curves for solar > > cells are limited on the end of higher energy. I know that the lower bound > > is related to the energy gap of the semiconductor, but I can't find a > > corresponding explaination for the higher bound. Any comments would be > > appreciated. COMMENT: Strongly absorbed uV photons generate hole-electron pairs near the front surface where high rates of surface (or near surface) recombination occurs. Severe doping gradients are used to extend the sensitivity into the uV, but high doping concentrations also distort the lattice and produce additional recombination centers. See text by Sze. Re: PV response curves --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (813) Fri 9 Dec 94 20:55 By: CYBURG To: All Re: Re: PV Wrap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b7e6 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: cyburg@aol.com (CYBURG) @Subject: Re: PV Wrap Date: 9 Dec 1994 20:55:03 -0500 @Sender: news@newsbf01.news.aol.com @Message-Id: <3cb1pn$a7q@newsbf01.news.aol.com> I agree with Marge. Conservation is the first thing to do. Cynthia --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]America (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (814) Sat 10 Dec 94 3:20 By: CYBURG To: All Re: Re: PV Wrap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b82a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: CYBURG @Subject: Re: PV Wrap @Message-Id: <238.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 03:20:36 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I agree with Marge. Conservation is the first thing to do. Cynthia Re: PV Wrap --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (815) Sat 10 Dec 94 3:22 By: McBeath To: All Re: Re: Alcohol as Fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b82b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: McBeath @Subject: Re: Alcohol as Fuel @Message-Id: <532.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 03:22:21 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List List Bill Kovarik (wkovarik@RUACAD.AC.RUNET.EDU) wrote: : Is there a scientific reason it * Should * run better : with a little water? : Well, yes, as I understand it, well-atomized water droplets : in fuel are known to slow down the combustion wave front, : preventing pre-detonation and giving the car a more uniformly : distributed ignition, which is the equivalent of an octane boost. : But that is under highly controlled conditions. there was a big discussion on this in one of the other news groups just recently. i'll try to find it and post the informantion. I believe it was rec.aviation.homebuilt, and yes, it was used for aircraft engines.... : Of course, if your car doesnt run better in the rain, maybe : the little droplets arent getting into the carburetor in a : way that helps it run. I had this problem for quite a while. cracked distributer cap... water+electricity=problems..... wasn't the carburator at all. : So I didnt mean to imply that all cars everywhere run better : in the rain, but rather that was a case where sometimes cars : run better. rod j321@unb.ca Re: Alcohol as Fuel --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (816) Sat 10 Dec 94 3:24 By: "Michael J. Zammit" To: All Re: Re: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b82d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Michael J. Zammit" @Subject: Re: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR @Message-Id: <792.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 03:24:06 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In article Jim.Dunmyer@f2.n234.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Dunmyer) writes: >From: Jim.Dunmyer@f2.n234.z1.fidonet.org (Jim Dunmyer) >Date: 05 Dec 94 07:20:58 -0500 >Subject: RE: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR > > What temp rate do you keep your wood stove at ? Max ? > > I usually keep the temp at 400-450 (magnetic type on flue) >I run it at 400-600, depending on outside temperature, until the room warms up, >then the computer switches it to 200. Most of the time, it's bringing things up >to temperature, and I fire it very lightly once things are warm, so I have >nearly no creosote buildup. Plus, I use fairly-well seasoned wood, kept under >roof. We've not cleaned the stack in years now, and it's still in fine shape; >it's a double-wall solid-pack (MetalBestos) type, the ONLY kind to use with a >stove. I'm familiar with the double-wall solid-pack chimney's your are referring to. How dangerous is it to run a stove off of a tripple wall (hollow) chimney common with zero clearance fire-places. I have this type and installed a rather large wood stove (rated 55,000 BTU/hr). Of course the Fire inspector was not thorough enough to catch this point. Mike Zammit Bellcore Re: RE: WOOD STOVE TEMPERATUR --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (817) Sat 10 Dec 94 3:50 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: Solar Panel Questions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b82f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: Solar Panel Questions. @Message-Id: <2171.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 03:50:49 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List This fascinates me. It sounds easy enough to do. Let me see if I understand. You have built a simple rectangle from 1x2 strips of wood and mounted clear plastic of some sort on it? How do you attach it to your cinderblock walls, and does it fit tightly against the house? Our house is made of stone, so such a panel would not fit tight against it, unless some sort of gasket material were installed to take up the gaps. Which do you think does the most good for keeping those areas warmer, the lack of cold wind or the direct rays of the sun shining on the plastic? We have bushes along the west side of the house where I am thinking it would be a good place to put such panels. If the sun is the main object, the bushes would need to be cut down. If just keeping the cold air away from the walls is the main thing, allowing space for the panels to fit between the house and the bushes would be okay, and some sun would hit the panels. Something along the lines of the person who spoke of putting solar panels on the ground and trapping heat under the house with rocks or salt made me think of something else. Our house has air vents in the foundation so that air can circulate under the house. In the winter time, would it be good to attach something similar to a solar box cooker these vents and make the air entering the crawl space warm and not cold? I imagine if the solar box were large enough, (and that would be a very simple thing to build) it might make the house warmer. Marge Re: Solar Panel Questions. --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (818) Mon 12 Dec 94 8:21 By: William B. Warren To: All Re: Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b837 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: wbw@shore.net (William B. Warren) @Subject: Re: temp fluctuation in solarium Date: 12 Dec 1994 08:21:13 -0500 @Message-Id: <3chio9$l5m@shore.shore.net> In article <18616.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu>, M Barnard wrote: >> I have a 10 x 10 solarium with 30 deg. sloping glass on top. It can be >> isolated from the house by sliding patio door. Problem: extreme temp >> fluctuations in summer & winter. [snip] > >Sorry to suggest lo-tek, but I would plant deciduous trees on the sun-exposed >sides, and coniferous on the north. This would eliminate your worst >problems, if it is feasible. This is my favoured solution to most issues like >this, but I still haven't come up with a good plan for what to do during the >period when the trees are growing. Any similarly lo-tek solutions for this >period out there? > I'm jumping into this thread a little late, so i apologize if this has been suggested previously... How about several 5'x18" Solar algae tanks w/water, algae and perhaps even a few fish?? --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]North S (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (819) Sat 10 Dec 94 7:18 By: Nick Pine To: All Re: solar siding [repost, with comments] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b83e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: nick@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Nick Pine) @Subject: solar siding [repost, with comments] Date: 10 Dec 1994 07:18:42 -0500 @Message-Id: <3cc6b2$i5d@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu> I'm reposting this wonderful and important article ("Gee, somebody finally agrees with Nick" :-), with a few small changes and comments in []... Article: 2644 of alt.energy.renewable From: "VINCKENBOSCH@EIG.UNIGE.CH" Subject: Re: Solar Panel Questions. Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 14:40:50 GMT Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu Rob Johnston writes: >I am looking at adding a passive air based solar panel to my house, and >have a couple of beginning questions. >...1) I would like to use plexeglass as opposed to glass on the panel, since >it will be at ground level (ie kid level). I think it's a good idea to use a transparent polymer for a solar panel. [eg Dynaglas? (408) 997-6100.] Last winter I used 10 sq.m of polyethylene panels with wooden frames (1x2 m) fixed directly and vertically on the west and south facades of my house (I've got no east). I'm adding 10 more sq.m these days. I remove the panels and store them in my garage during warm season. I call that: Removable Transparent Insulation (RTI). [It seems less work to me to leave the panels up, and maybe open a small vent at the top in the summer.] The highest temp I measured in the panel air gap was 140 F, on last February. The panels slightly warp on those days but come back to their flat (more or less) shape at sunset. The insulated external wall part is typically 20-25 F above the non-insulated one, on sunny days. My walls are painted with an ochre color slightly lighter than a cigarette filter. I think color doesn't matter too much. [I think this would work 20-30% better with a darker color, and it would probably work a little better with a couple of holes in the wall, about 1% of the glazed area, at the top and bottom of the wall, with a plastic film backdraft damper that swings into the room on the inside of the top hole, or out from the room on the outside of the bottom hole--nick] The good news is that this solar panel even works at night! I calculated a 25% improvement on thermal transfer. Taking only in count the transfer through the 2 cm air gap (don't make it thicker, it's not worth it). There is an additional greenhouse effect for radiative transfer, but I have no data for PET [I think most plastics have no "greenhouse effect," unlike glass], and also the influence of a smoother than wall-rough-cast surface, if you consider wind effect (no data on average wind speed along the walls). I have 25 cm thick walls made of hollow concrete blocks filled with polystyrene insulation. Global (direct + scattered) solar flux on horizontal, vertical south, vert. west and vertical east are roughly the same in Geneva during winter. We have generally a quite cloudy sky during cold season. I think west is better since morning fog is quite frequent and the walls store heat for the night when you most need it. Look also for setting the insulation where the heaters are on the other side (inside) of the wall. If the walls are thick enough, I don't feel additional heat storage is necessary. I think it is better to use PVC or PET rather than plexiglass. Easier to work with and less fragile. The panels cost around 10$ per sq.m (1$ sq.ft) without my craft work. It seems to work quite well. I noticed an average $80 reduction per month, on my electric bill (guess how I'm heated). I also calculated a 5 cents per "system" (that means whole!) peak (that means a bright sunny march day at 12) watt cost [vs. $5/peak watt with photovoltaic cells?] And a payback between 1 and 2 (winter only) months (with electrical heating of course, 5 times more with fossil fuel). Exercise: estimate the potential of this stuff for U.S. in "do-it-yourself nuclear plant" units. [Who will be the first to sell "solar siding kits"? Real Goods?] Note: When your house gets too hot, open the windows, or remove the panels if spring is well-established. [or open a small screened vent at the top, as described in the 1881 US patent number 246,626.] Michel Vinckenbosch vinckenbosc@eig.unige.ch --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Villano (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (820) Sat 10 Dec 94 13:21 By: Nick Pine To: All Re: solar siding [repost, with comments] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b83f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Nick Pine @Subject: solar siding [repost, with comments] @Message-Id: <24853.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 13:21:44 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I'm reposting this wonderful and important article ("Gee, somebody finally agrees with Nick" :-), with a few small changes and comments in []... Article: 2644 of alt.energy.renewable From: "VINCKENBOSCH@EIG.UNIGE.CH" Subject: Re: Solar Panel Questions. Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 14:40:50 GMT Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu Rob Johnston writes: >I am looking at adding a passive air based solar panel to my house, and >have a couple of beginning questions. >...1) I would like to use plexeglass as opposed to glass on the panel, since >it will be at ground level (ie kid level). I think it's a good idea to use a transparent polymer for a solar panel. [eg Dynaglas? (408) 997-6100.] Last winter I used 10 sq.m of polyethylene panels with wooden frames (1x2 m) fixed directly and vertically on the west and south facades of my house (I've got no east). I'm adding 10 more sq.m these days. I remove the panels and store them in my garage during warm season. I call that: Removable Transparent Insulation (RTI). [It seems less work to me to leave the panels up, and maybe open a small vent at the top in the summer.] The highest temp I measured in the panel air gap was 140 F, on last February. The panels slightly warp on those days but come back to their flat (more or less) shape at sunset. The insulated external wall part is typically 20-25 F above the non-insulated one, on sunny days. My walls are painted with an ochre color slightly lighter than a cigarette filter. I think color doesn't matter too much. [I think this would work 20-30% better with a darker color, and it would probably work a little better with a couple of holes in the wall, about 1% of the glazed area, at the top and bottom of the wall, with a plastic film backdraft damper that swings into the room on the inside of the top hole, or out from the room on the outside of the bottom hole--nick] The good news is that this solar panel even works at night! I calculated a 25% improvement on thermal transfer. Taking only in count the transfer through the 2 cm air gap (don't make it thicker, it's not worth it). There is an additional greenhouse effect for radiative transfer, but I have no data for PET [I think most plastics have no "greenhouse effect," unlike glass], and also the influence of a smoother than wall-rough-cast surface, if you consider wind effect (no data on average wind speed along the walls). I have 25 cm thick walls made of hollow concrete blocks filled with polystyrene insulation. Global (direct + scattered) solar flux on horizontal, vertical south, vert. west and vertical east are roughly the same in Geneva during winter. We have generally a quite cloudy sky during cold season. I think west is better since morning fog is quite frequent and the walls store heat for the night when you most need it. Look also for setting the insulation where the heaters are on the other side (inside) of the wall. If the walls are thick enough, I don't feel additional heat storage is necessary. I think it is better to use PVC or PET rather than plexiglass. Easier to work with and less fragile. The panels cost around 10$ per sq.m (1$ sq.ft) without my craft work. It seems to work quite well. I noticed an average $80 reduction per month, on my electric bill (guess how I'm heated). I also calculated a 5 cents per "system" (that means whole!) peak (that means a bright sunny march day at 12) watt cost [vs. $5/peak watt with photovoltaic cells?] And a payback between 1 and 2 (winter only) months (with electrical heating of course, 5 times more with fossil fuel). Exercise: estimate the potential of this stuff for U.S. in "do-it-yourself nuclear plant" units. [Who will be the first to sell "solar siding kits"? Real Goods?] Note: When your house gets too hot, open the windows, or remove the panels if spring is well-established. [or open a small screened vent at the top, as described in the 1881 US patent number 246,626.] Michel Vinckenbosch vinckenbosc@eig.unige.ch solar siding [repost, with comments] --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (821) Sat 10 Dec 94 14:20 By: Hans Hammarquist To: All Re: Re: Range of electric cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b841 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Hans Hammarquist @Subject: Re: Range of electric cars @Message-Id: <27517.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 14:20:58 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List In article <27040.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> you wrote: : It seems that the range of electric cars is considered to be an obstacle to : their introduction. The simplest solution to this problem would be to design : them with removable battery packs. Current gas stations, could be redesigned : with battery rack exchange bays, where hydraulic machinery could replace a : rack of "empties" with a freshly charged rack, in a matter of seconds. The : price of such a "refill" would be based on the value of the power in the : batteries, and a depreciation rate for the batteries themselves. This could : take the form of an initial payment, with a guaranteed "refund at exchange", : of slightly less than the initial payment. : This way, it becomes possible to make extended journeys, with regular stops : at "gas stations", just as is now the case. : I suspect however, that most people would find that most of the time, : recharging the car each night at home, and/or at work during the day, would : be sufficient. : "Gas stations" could recharge the battery racks from the grid. : Robin van Spaandonk : Range of electric cars Re: Range of electric cars --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (822) Sat 10 Dec 94 14:29 By: Mryka Hall-Beyer To: All Re: Re: Solar Panel Questions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b842 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Mryka Hall-Beyer @Subject: Re: Solar Panel Questions. @Message-Id: <28011.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 14:29:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List MW> Our house has air vents in the foundation so that MW> air can circulate under the house. In the winter time, MW> would it be good to attach something similar to a solar box MW> cooker these vents and make the air entering the crawl MW> space warm and not cold? I imagine if the solar box were MW> large enough, (and that would be a very simple thing to MW> build) it might make the house warmer. MW> Why not kill 2 birds with one stone (an expression now deemed too violent to be used in the public schools of ONtario) and build a small cold frame over the vent intakes? Then you could get the pre-heated air on sunny days, block too much circulation on cloudy windy ones and at night, and grow stuff besides. I did this in ALberta over the south-side basement windows and got a spinach crop in April (yes, Texans, you're supposed to be impressed by this. Normal last frost there is in mid-June). You might have to vent a bit on warm sunny days so as not to cook the plants - or grow something that can cook on the vine? :) -Mryka Re: Solar Panel Questions. --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (823) Sat 10 Dec 94 15:35 By: List Bill Kovarik To: All Re: Re: Alcohol as Fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b844 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: List Bill Kovarik @Subject: Re: Alcohol as Fuel @Message-Id: <1565.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 1994 15:35:56 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I very much appreciated the FAQ on EVs and wondered whether we need a FAQ on alcohol fuel. If there is any interest I will put one together. Bill Kovarik co-author The Forbidden Fuel author Fuel Alcohol: Energy & Environment in a Hungry World author The Ethyl Controversy (being developed) wkovarik@ruacad.ac.runet.edu Re: Alcohol as Fuel R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (826) Tue 13 Dec 94 16:59 By: chem158 To: All Re: Re: Crystalline Cells and Solder Misery ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b84f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: chem158@csc.canterbury.ac.nz @Subject: Re: Crystalline Cells and Solder Misery Date: 13 Dec 94 16:59:04 +1200 @Message-Id: <1994Dec13.165904.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> From: friedrb@iia.org (Bill Friedrich), International Internet Organization Date: 12 Dec 94 17:38:28 +1200 hi,, does anyone have an easy way to connect many solar cell pieces with perhaps a solder substitute, like somekind of conductive glue...? I've made a couple of panels using solder, and its driving me crazy... some days the solder just won't stick! (i get the panels in a grab bag of broken ones from Edmund Scientific) err.. i bought "Liquid Solder" from channel lumber,, the salesman assured me that it was made from metal and conducted electricity,, i got duped... Bill. when soldering do you use flux to clean the surface? it might help when doing a new joint which is dirty or have a coating. Something like duzzal (ZnCl soln) or cleaning prior with an acid such as dil HCl. Also tinning the pieces prior to joining would help. Clint T --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Univers (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (827) Tue 13 Dec 94 4:55 By: Andrew Stark To: All Re: test ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b852 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Andrew Stark @Subject: test @Message-Id: <28895.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 04:55:40 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Please excuse this test. test --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (828) Tue 13 Dec 94 5:04 By: David Mills To: All Re: Re: Australian interest in USA energy policy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b853 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: David Mills @Subject: Re: Australian interest in USA energy policy @Message-Id: <29434.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 05:04:46 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List On Fri, 9 Sep 1994, Charles Ehrlich wrote: > I'd be interested in meeting with you. I work at the PG&E Energy Center > in San Francisco (for now). Hi Chas, I have recently been informed that my submission to the Australian-American Educational Foundation (Fulbright Comission) has been successful. I shall be visiting the USA from July to September 1995. I am currently in the process of developing an itinerary. I hope to include a visit to the PG&E Energy Centre in my itinerary. I shall inform you when I determine when I shall be in San Francisco. I look forward to meeting with you. David Mills Science Policy Research Centre Griffith University Nathan, 4111 AUSTRALIA E-mail: D.Mills@sct.gu.edu.au Re: Australian interest in USA energy policy R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (830) Tue 13 Dec 94 5:54 By: J Eyer To: All Re: PV trackers and "efficien ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b85f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: J Eyer @Subject: PV trackers and "efficien @Message-Id: <877.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 05:54:38 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AE>By putting PV modules on a single axis tracking frame how much AE>efficiency will I gain? AE>No calculations. . .just a rough idea please. AE> R Paul Rogers AE> Dept. of Architecture AE> University of Manitoba Paul: Perhaps this is a semantic pissing match; but, "efficiency" is of little importance to designers except that it will determine how much surface area and mounting structure you'll need. INefficient PV may well be the best buy--lowest capital cost and/or lowest energy cost alternative. You should see an increased ENERGY PRODUCTION of about 20% by using single axis tracking (PV "efficiency" does not change.) But; the tradeoffs are a more complex, costly system with more to go wrong. While the distinction may seem trivial, when PV folks (and others) say efficiency they really do mean conversion efficiency--how much of the sun (light) energy can be converted to electric energy. A good range for commercial, single sun PV modules is 8% - 12%. Jim; The Dark Storm Cloud Gloom and Doom Monger EEEE IIII Jim Eyer EE A II EEE N II CONSULTING j.eyer@microex.com EE D II EEEEE IIII PV trackers and "efficien --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (831) Tue 13 Dec 94 5:56 By: J Eyer To: All Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b860 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: J Eyer @Subject: none @Message-Id: <910.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 05:56:11 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AE>Is there anyone in Portland, OR using photovoltaics in an urban AE>environment? Other AE>renewable sources are unusable at my present location (wind, hydro, AE>ect...). Photovoltaics look like the best bet but I'm looking for AE>empirical data such as AE>efficiency during the winter months (even summer months). AE>Any information would be greatly appreciated. AE>------------------------------------------------------------------ --- AE>------- Tim Gates | Tim As I noted when responding to the other person, efficiency is not really the criterion of merit to focus when evaluating PV. The most important criterion you need to consider is cost per Watt: That is the single biggest determinant of the PV part of the system cost, which itself is often one half or more of total cost. The next criterion to consider is cost per unit energy (kilowatt-hour). That is needed to determine ownership and O&M costs, annual and lifecycle. Efficiency only defines how much stuff you'll need to lug around during construction / installation and indicates how much surface area is needed for the array. Actually, most PV does convert more efficiently when it is cold--given the same light. But; for gross comparisons the difference can be ignored. Assume commercial PV modules convert sunlight at between 8% - 12%. Also, don't rule out a small very cost-effective wind turbines which produce very inexpensive off-grid energy, if coupled with batteries. The AWEA guy (Gray) should be able to suggest contacts for such products that can endure fairly harsh weather. Of course that may make the system more robust and make the design / integration more complex and challenging. Best Regards... Jim; The Gloomin' Non-Benevolent Pessimist. EEEE IIII Jim Eyer EE A II EEE N II CONSULTING j.eyer@microex.com EE D II EEEEE IIII  NO SUBJECT --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (832) Tue 13 Dec 94 6:03 By: J Eyer To: All Re: International Geothermal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b861 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: J Eyer @Subject: International Geothermal @Message-Id: <1019.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 06:03:08 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AE>ssage-ID: <199412130307.AA28555@nntp.crl.com> AE>It was announced here recently that the International Geothermal AE>Association would be offering World Wide Web pages about its AE>activities and geothermal developments world wide. Any progress on the hot dry rock (HDR) front in the UK or Europe? Jim; EEEE IIII Jim Eyer EE A II EEE N II CONSULTING j.eyer@microex.com EE D II EEEEE IIII International Geothermal R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (833) Tue 13 Dec 94 6:04 By: J Eyer To: All Re: Flywheels as battery alte ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b862 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: J Eyer @Subject: Flywheels as battery alte @Message-Id: <1235.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 06:04:52 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AE>out literature/research on this? AE>Flywheels as battery alternative? There has been an upsurge in flywheel technology advocacy and commercialization just in the last two to three years. There are several manufacturers ready to take orders now for stationary applications. Several National Laboratories, the Electric Power Research Institute, utilities and others are investigating flywheels. Flywheels do seem better suited to these stationary electric utility type applications. They are proposed for use as distributed electric resources within the utility power distribution infrastructure and / or on-site where energy is used. Transportation applications are more problematic: heavy expensive containment vessels for the rotor are required and power transfer mechanisms need to be more robust. I suggest a standard lit search at a decent library that ought to turn up some good stuff--from the mainstream press, utility trade materials, and research periodicals. Jim; The Loathsome Unspiritual One EEEE IIII Jim Eyer EE A II EEE N II CONSULTING j.eyer@microex.com EE D II EEEEE IIII Flywheels as battery alte R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (836) Tue 13 Dec 94 5:58 By: JRKuhn To: All Re: unsubscribe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b87c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: JRKuhn@aol.com @Subject: unsubscribe Date: 13 Dec 1994 05:58:39 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: <941212234544_4553153@aol.com> unsubscribe renew-energy john kuhn --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (837) Tue 13 Dec 94 12:11 By: Robin van Spaandonk To: All Re: Re: AE Digest - 11 Dec 1994 to 12 Dec 1994 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b87d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Robin van Spaandonk @Subject: Re: AE Digest - 11 Dec 1994 to 12 Dec 1994 @Message-Id: <16570.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 12:11:09 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 15:49:51 GMT > From: DaveHatunen > Subject: Re: Range of electric cars > [SNIP] > jamming them into your expensive new runabout. Or, alternatively, the > capital expense of an automated battery-handling equipment, including > removing from your car and carrying the battery in to the charger rack, > getting a fresh battery and bringing it back, etc. > > It just ain't gonna work out on I-5 from SF to LA. > > -- Where there's a will, there's a way. > > > ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@netcom.com) ********** > * Daly City California: * > * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * > * and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea * > ******************************************************* Robin van Spaandonk Re: AE Digest - 11 Dec 1994 to 12 Dec 1994 --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (838) Tue 13 Dec 94 12:21 By: LIONEL GOLDBERG To: All Re: Court Ordered Liquidation - Computer Memory - CPU's & Hdsk Drives ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b87e @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: LIONEL GOLDBERG @Subject: Court Ordered Liquidation - Computer Memory - CPU's & Hdsk Drives @Message-Id: <17078.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 12:21:01 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Choice Trading Company, Court Appointed Liquidators, have been assigned to liquidate the following Multi-Million Dollar inventory of computer Memory Chips, CPU's and Hard Disk Drives. All items are new and come with applicable manufactures warranty. Prices quoted include all state and local taxes plus shipping and handling. Order Cost Number Mfg. Description (EACH) Memory 1524 Toshiba 30 Pin Simms 1x3 70ns 1 meg $ 25.00 1525 Toshiba 30 Pin Simms 1x9 70ns 1 meg 25.00 1526 Toshiba 30 Pin Simms 4x9 70ns 4 meg 100.00 1527 Toshiba 30 Pin Simms 1x3 60ns 1 meg 26.00 1528 Toshiba 30 Pin Simms 1x9 60ns 1 meg 26.00 1529 Toshiba 30 Pin Simms 4x9 60ns 4 meg 106.00 1624 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 512x36 70ns 2 meg 50.00 1625 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 1x36 70ns 4 meg 100.00 1626 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 2x36 70ns 8 meg 200.00 1627 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 4x36 70ns 16 meg 400.00 1628 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 8x36 70ns 32 meg 800.00 1624 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 512x36 60ns 2 meg 52.00 1625 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 1x36 60ns 4 meg 104.00 1626 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 2x36 60ns 8 meg 208.00 1627 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 4x36 60ns 16 meg 416.00 1628 Toshiba 72 Pin Simms 8x36 60ns 32 meg 832.00 Memory for the Macintosh 1122 Toshiba 1 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns 1 meg 31.00 1123 Toshiba 2 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns 2 meg 62.00 1124 Toshiba 4 meg x 8 Simm Module 70ns 4 meg 109.00 CPU's 1276 Intel 80486 DX/33 115.00 1277 Intel 80486 DX/50 188.00 1278 Intel 80486 DX-2/66 156.00 1279 Intel 80486 DX-4/75 358.00 1280 Intel 80486 DX-4/100 498.00 1281 Intel Pentium 80501-60 366.00 1282 Intel Pentium 80501-66 453.00 1283 Intel Pentium 80502-90 558.00 Hard Disk Drives Seagate Barracuda Drives 1351 Seagate ST11950N 8ms 3.5" 1.69 GB SCSI 658.00 1352 Seagate ST12550N 8ms 3.5" 2.1 GB SCSI 899.00 1353 Seagate ST15150N 8ms 3.5" 4.2 GB SCSI 1,526.00 1354 Seagate ST31200N 11ms 3.5" 1.05 GB SCSI 538.00 1355 Seagate ST11900N 9ms 3.5" 1.7 GB SCSI 628.00 1366 Seagate ST2400A 9ms 3.5" 2.1 GB SCSI 856.00 1367 Seagate ST15230N 9ms 3.5" 4.29 GB SCSI 1,454.00 1368 Seagate ST41080N 11ms 5.5" 9.08 GB SCSI 2,848.00 Western Digital 1366 Western AC2340 12ms 3.5" 340 MB IDE 122.00 1367 Western AC2420 12ms 3.5" 420 MB IDE 136.00 1368 Western AC2540 12ms 3.5" 540 MB IDE 160.00 1369 Western AC2700 12ms 3.5" 731 MB IDE 230.00 Conner 1372 Connor CFS420A 14ms 3.5" 420 MB IDE 138.00 1373 Connor CFA540A 10ms 3.5" 540 MB IDE 168.00 1374 Connor CFA1080A 10ms 3.5" 1080 MB IDE 408.00 ORDERING INFORMATION To order please use a company order form/letterhead or if for personal use, use a plain white sheet of paper with your return address. List the items desired by order number, the quantity and total cost. Send your order with check or money order payable to Choice Trading Company to: Choice Trading Company Order Processing Lot #1776 86228 Terminal Annex Los Angeles, Ca. 90086-0228 Orders are processed on a first come basis. Adjustments and refunds will be made immediately for items that have sold out. Please allow 2 to 3 Weeks for shipping. Due to court ordered restrictions we are unable to accept COD, phone or credit card orders. This public offering is valid through December 30, 1994. Any unsold inventories will be auctioned. For auction information please send a self addressed stamped enveloped to: Choice Trading Company Lot #1776 202 So. Broadway Los Angeles, Ca. 90012 (213) 856 6172 If you are unable to use this information, please pass it on to someone who may. Lionel M. Goldberg Actuary Court Ordered Liquidation - Computer Memory - CPU's & Hdsk Drives --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (840) Tue 13 Dec 94 21:46 By: ifjed To: All Re: cmsg cancel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b8d4 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ifjed@nmsua.nmsu.edu @Subject: cmsg cancel Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 21:46:54 GMT @Message-Id: --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Alamogo (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (841) Wed 14 Dec 94 7:41 By: walt dennig To: All Re: Re: Solar power for laptop? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b907 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: walt dennig @Subject: Re: Solar power for laptop? @Message-Id: <11720.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 07:41:23 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List >The battery on my pentium laptop lasts about one hour. This simply will not >do when I return to the mountains of Guatemala (five miles from the nearest >electrical outlet). Are there solar panels (backpackable) that would work >for this? I want to buy it, not build it. Yes, there are systems available! I'm gonna get one. Check with Real Goods, 966 Mazzoni St, Ukiah, CA 95482-3471 800-762-7325 or FAX 707-468-9486. They now have email but I can't find it. Have your system requirements handy, if you call. I have a magazine of theirs and they also ask that you have your power cord in hand. Walt Dennig wrdennig@cruzio.com P.O.Box 578 (408) 426-6141 (voice) Santa Cruz CA (408) 457-2104 (FAX) USA 95061-0578 Re: Solar power for laptop? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (842) Tue 13 Dec 94 18:09 By: F. Arntz To: All Re: DOE as proponent of alt energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b908 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: farntz@pearl.tufts.edu (F. Arntz) @Subject: DOE as proponent of alt energy Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 18:09:50 -0500 @Message-Id: What fraction of the DOE budget is directed to non-nuclear and non-petroleum energy alternatives? --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Tufts E (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (843) Wed 14 Dec 94 14:31 By: roberto lamberts To: All Re: signoff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b95c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: roberto lamberts @Subject: signoff @Message-Id: <1140.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:31:46 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List dear all I am very sorry to bother everybody but I am unable to signoff authomatically. My subscription address was ecv1rlr@ibm.ufsc.br and at the moment I am unable to use it for sending mail. Please help me to signoff the list. regards roberto ROBERTO LAMBERTS (ECV1RLR@BRUFSC.BITNET OR ECV1RLR@IBM.UFSC.BR) UNIVERSIDADE FEDERAL DE SANTA CATARINA PHONE: + 55 482 319272 / 9702 FAX: + 55 482 319770 signoff --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (844) Wed 14 Dec 94 14:42 By: Robin van Spaandonk To: All Re: (Slightly off topic) Fresh Water ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b95f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Robin van Spaandonk @Subject: (Slightly off topic) Fresh Water @Message-Id: <1725.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:42:56 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I have often wondered if it would be worthwhile designing thermal power plants to use salt water instead of fresh. As they need to boil water anyway to generate power, it may as well be salt water, and both the condensate (distilled water) and the salt would be extra sources of income. Robin van Spaandonk (Slightly off topic) Fresh Water --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (845) Wed 14 Dec 94 14:46 By: "Marvin G. Beshirs" To: All Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b963 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: "Marvin G. Beshirs" @Subject: Just a thought! @Message-Id: <1976.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:46:57 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I am not trying to put the other gentlemen down, but it did get me to thinking. At a previous address, the house had a wood stove in the front room that we used for heating our house as opposed to using the electric heat. To keep from having to buy so much wood, we got this tool that we put some water in, put newspaper in, rolled it up and let it dry. Presto, a log that has been recycled. Theser were a bit easier to start than a regular log but did last quite a while. I am not putting down recycling paper by other means, but under some circumstances I suppose this might be okay. --May God be with you and yours. Don't criticize me too loudly until Marvin Beshirs (:> you have walked a mile in my shoes! e-mail at mbeshirs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us !Please! On Wed, 14 Dec 1994, Andrew Cowen wrote: > Can anybody lead me towards getting a hand-operated paper shredder? Nobody > seems to know about them, in either new or second-hand shops. I'm sure > I've seen at least one - tell me I'm not going nuts! > I'm in London; if you have one spare I'd like to exchange for it with you, > or if you know somewhere that keeps them in stock - replies gratefully > recieved. > Mat > === > Paper shredder, hand operated: SOURCE REQUEST! > Just a thought! R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (846) Wed 14 Dec 94 14:47 By: Jeff Peterson To: All Re: Re: Solar power for laptop? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b964 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Jeff Peterson @Subject: Re: Solar power for laptop? @Message-Id: <2014.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:47:36 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Sunwize (Kingston, New York) has developed a brief case that has solar cells incorporated in the top for applications such as this. Rick Lewandowski is the president 914-336-7700 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Solar power for laptop? Author: Alternative Energy Discussion List at INTERNET Date: 12/13/94 8:25 PM The battery on my pentium laptop lasts about one hour. This simply will not do when I return to the mountains of Guatemala (five miles from the nearest electrical outlet). Are there solar panels (backpackable) that would work for this? I want to buy it, not build it. Thanks Solar power for laptop? Re: Solar power for laptop? --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (848) Wed 14 Dec 94 15:18 By: Ross M Donald To: All Re: PV Wrap ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b96a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ross M Donald @Subject: PV Wrap @Message-Id: <3492.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 15:18:28 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List ------------------------------ => =>Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 21:34:44 -0800 =>From: Bill Berggren =>Subject: PHOTOVOLT => =>Ross, I am sorry to say but what the guy printed was => No need for sorrow. I'd be the first one to buy the stuff. But, just because something appears in print... =>correct. Actually 99%, but at Argonne they were only =>able to get 70%. This figure is from many sources. => But, nobody is expecting production any time soon; and the projected costs are unacceptable. => Look at Solar Today Journal, there is a small mention =>of it in the letters section. Rather than using =>semiconductors, the cells use some molecule. Haven't =>read an entire article on it yet though. => Are we still talking about Alvin Marks, PV Wrap, or what...I'm losing the thread. :-) --------> Renewable News Network rnn@world.std.com PV Wrap --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (849) Wed 14 Dec 94 15:20 By: Ross M Donald To: All Re: Deregulation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b96b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ross M Donald @Subject: Deregulation @Message-Id: <3525.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 15:20:04 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List ------------------------------ => =>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 13:39:00 PST =>From: Patch George =>Subject: Deregulation => =>Hi, => ...a deregulated electric industry maybe good or bad =>for RE. => =>The Public Utilities Regulation something something act =>(PURPA) says that power companies should pay us the =>"avoided cost" which is has been interpreted as the $ =>the power company saves by not having to add the =>capacity that we are providing. => PURPA provides payment for fuel costs, as I understand it. =>The recent discussion about a "Green Rate", where =>people have been willing to pay more for power knowing =>that their power is coming from a RE source, may hold =>the key to the future of RE in a deregulated industry. => There will be many keys, not merely one; but a big feature of "Green Rates," and also many green products and services is that they can be voluntary, requiring only that the utilities offer them. => ...independent power companies may only be allowed =>to sell to very large customers and thus not helping =>RE.... => =>Any thoughts on how a deregulated industry could help =>RE? => In a deregulated environment, how could independent power companies NOT be allowed to sell to their customer? -ross Deregulation ------------------------------ --------> Renewable News Network rnn@world.std.com Deregulation --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (850) Wed 14 Dec 94 15:22 By: Ross M Donald To: All Re: Deregulation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b96c @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Ross M Donald @Subject: Deregulation @Message-Id: <3824.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 15:22:47 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List To: Scott Rubin Subject: Deregulation =>George Patch writes (in part): =>Any thoughts on how a deregulated industry could help =>RE? =>------------------------------------------------------- => =>The market for electricity generation is becoming =>increasingly competitive and, in some ways, =>deregulated. The major stumbling blocks are (1) =>transmission access and (2) finding customers who will =>pay your rates and accept your level of reliability. => The only problems, which are entirely solvable, in accessing the wires with Renewable sources are minor technical issues, that is, compatability and protection for line workers against backfeeding. Reliability is provided from the grid connection. =>Problem (1) is solved *legally* by the Energy Policy =>Act of 1992, but *in practice* it can still pose =>significant problems....setting transmission prices). => =>Problem (2) is the *real* issue for RE developers. =>Your prices simply are not competitive in the current =>market (which places a low monetary value on =>environmental benefits). Remember, the current market =>is a wholesale market, => Is this true? Wouldn't consumers also purchase RE if available? ...and be more likely to accept other economic, environmental, etc. reasons, as well, in establishing their own energy mix? => ....If you attempt to compete in the generation =>market at 5 cents/kwh, you will lose and lose badly. => This IS a competative price in niche markets. =>Utilities with excess generating capacity and IPPs with =>combined cycle gas turbines can offer high levels of =>reliability to wholesale customers at rates in the 2 to =>3 cent range (give or take). => However this description does not apply across the board. Where there is no excess capacity, and where dangerous, damaging, and/or expensive fuel generated electricity is produced, the situation is ripe for RE. =>So, your only hope... => ...is to look for markets, where there are markets, and not to expect to do the impossible, until the utility world wises up, which will happen in time. => : Scott J. Rubin =>rubin@einstein.susqu.edu : : Public Utility =>Consulting Voice & fax: 717-743-2233 : =>+----------------------------------------------- => =>Deregulation => ------------------------------------------------------- rnn@world.std.com \ Information Ecologies \ 141 Fisher Avenue \ Boston, MA 02143 USA Ross M. Donald \ 1-617/730-5656 Life of the Party \ "So It Goes" \ -Linda Ellerbee ------------------------------------------------------- --------> Renewable News Network rnn@world.std.com Deregulation --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (851) Wed 14 Dec 94 16:00 By: P. A. Watts-Jones To: All Re: (none) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b970 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: P.A.Watts-Jones@reading.ac.uk (P. A. Watts-Jones) @Subject: (none) Date: 14 Dec 1994 16:00:50 -0000 @Sender: daemon@bigblue.oit.unc.edu @Message-Id: @Mime-Version: 1.0 @Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII unsubscribe --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]renew-e (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (852) Wed 14 Dec 94 16:33 By: J Eyer To: All Re: Paper shredder, hand oper ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b97f @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: J Eyer @Subject: Paper shredder, hand oper @Message-Id: <7816.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:33:21 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AE> lead me towards getting a hand-operated paper shredder? Try scissors... Jim; smart ass too EEEE IIII Jim Eyer EE A II EEE N II CONSULTING j.eyer@microex.com EE D II EEEEE IIII Paper shredder, hand oper R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (853) Wed 14 Dec 94 16:35 By: Howard Smith To: All Re: Re: DOE REPORTS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b980 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Howard Smith @Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS @Message-Id: <7935.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:35:19 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS TO: ae%sjsuvm1.bitnet@cmsa.berkeley.edu >From: Harry Groot >Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS >In-Reply-To: ; from "Tom Gray" at Dec 13, 94 7:56 am > >Can we use the power of Internet to get our message across? > >What're the appropriate e-mail addresses? It is probably as effective as a telephone call. Try president@whitehouse.gov vice.president@whitehouse.gov Since Newt Gingrich has been quoted in the press that there is no constituency interested in energy, we should also send him the message. I have found no email address but his telephone number is listed as 202-325-4501 and fax number is listed as 202-325-4656. hhs --- ~ QMPro 1.51 ~ Solar Hydrogen Re: DOE REPORTS R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (854) Wed 14 Dec 94 16:37 By: J Eyer To: All Re: Re: URGENT--DOE about to ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b981 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: J Eyer @Subject: Re: URGENT--DOE about to @Message-Id: <7968.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 16:37:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List AE>wables and energy efficiency. R> The people who desire energy efficiency in their lives, will fund it. Hurrah R. whoever you are. I felt the same reaction but expected a flood of whining and flaming if I stated my opinions on this matter. As a person committed to a career in the renewables and efficiency field, I think the best thing that can happen for new technologies is for government--state and federal--to: 1) stop assuming they can pick technological winners and 2) focus on making a more efficient ECONOMIC AND MARKET environment within which new technology can compete. In such an environment renewables and efficiency WILL exist and thrive if they are competitive (and of course they are already competitive in a growing number of instances). My only concern is that this is a reactionary, you-gotta-do-something response by Billarie to avoid losing the political initiative and to not give the Repubs the opportunity to do it themselves. What we're getting is incrementalism that, indeed, may do more harm than good. Obviously we also need to eliminate "subsidies" for oil, nuclear research programs, and tax rules that are unfair to renewables, to level the playing field. However, subjecting renewables and efficiency technologies to the vagaries and competition of the marketplace will make them more viable in the long run. DOE (and the Department of Education) are two great big government boondoggles that we'll all be better off without (unless you suck from the trough, which I ashamedly admit to myself). They are mostly turf building, exclusionary, parochial programs and are mostly pork barrel efforts that are pet projects of powerful congresspersons. Besides, as a strict libertarian I believe the feds have three roles: 1) run the judiciary, mostly to prevent fraud and to resolve interstate issues, 2) defend our boarders, and 3) manage our foreign interests. Thats it! Nowhere in the Constitution are there provisions for development of and foisting of energy policy onto US citizens. By the way, California is hopefully going to dump its huge Energy Commission too. Jim; oh no, more naysaying gloom! EEEE IIII Jim Eyer EE A II EEE N II CONSULTING j.eyer@microex.com EE D II EEEEE IIII Re: URGENT--DOE about to R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (855) Wed 14 Dec 94 17:02 By: Marge Wood To: All Re: Re: DOE REPORTS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b984 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Marge Wood @Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS @Message-Id: <9347.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 17:02:27 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List re: Newt Gingrich--the phone number that was posted a few minutes ago for Newt Gingrich is not the correct one; it is 202 225 4501 and I LOVE the idea for all of us to call and tell him we like renewable energy. You can love it without changing parties.... Marge Re: DOE REPORTS --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (856) Wed 14 Dec 94 2:37 By: James Jarrett To: All Re: Here is an interesting problem to be solved. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b987 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: ozzyman@jazzmin.vnet.net (James Jarrett) @Subject: Here is an interesting problem to be solved. Date: 14 Dec 1994 02:37:53 -0000 @Message-Id: <3cllq1$jqa@jazzmin.vnet.net> This may not be the best place to post this, but here goes. Some months ago, my wife and I bought a hot tub. We bought it both for recreation and to help me treat my arthritis. We have since fallen in love with it and would rather pull teeth than part with it, but the electric bills to heat the beast are obscene!! First some background, the tub is a 300+- gallon 5 man tub. Truth is tho four is really the best you can get in it and it really works best with 2. It is housed in our garage. The garage is being converted into a game room and has been properly insulated and will have the sheet rock up soon and the celing/roof insulation in place. I know this will help matters, I even built a small 3" riser wall that the tub sits on (to get it off the concrete floor that was sucking away all the heat). I know all these things will help, but I am still looking for ways to make it more efficent. The tub has a cover (a 3" R 21 sheet of dow blueboard wrapped in vynal). I am now looking for ways to further lower what it costs to heat this thing. I know that when the room is fully insulated (and maybe heated) it will be better but.... I was wondering if there are any companies that offer replacement or supp- lemental heaters for hot tubs that run on propane gas? (We don't get nat gas yet) I know there are a few heaters that use wood, but that requires a fire be built and the water allowed to warm, I usually like to soak a while just after I get up and when I get home from work. I know this has been a little long, but if anyone has ANY ideas as to how we can cut our costs on this thing (long term, I don't mind spending some money now to save more later) please e-mail me. Thanx, James --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]Vnet In (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (857) Wed 14 Dec 94 17:55 By: allen dale sylvester To: All Re: Online Science-fair. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b98d @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: allen dale sylvester @Subject: Online Science-fair. @Message-Id: <12327.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 17:55:14 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List I love the idea of an online science-fair, Marge. Problem is, who would supply the source? If we've got a hundred kids putting up hypertext displays online, that's going to suck down alot of space on some site. Also, not every student has this kind of access, though I wish they did. This is a subject very near and dear to my heart, as I am a computer scientist who has gone back to get his teaching certificate. I participated in the science fairs when I was in High School - qualified for the international competitions in Puerto Rico and Fort Worth. The sad thing I remember is that these kids have amazing ideas, but the adults judging them have that 'oh that's nice' attitude. I'd like to see some of the ideas these kids have become viable in the marketplace, and not patted on the head and told to go play now. Actually, we should all band together, as proponents of AE and create an award to fund research in the more promising ideas these kids have. Nothing big, just a grant for materials and supplies. If everyone who is interested in AE and was part of any listserv gave a dollar a year, I'd be willing to bet that eventually we'd have quite a fund. Mind you, I'm not soliciting, I'm just bouncing an idea. Allen asylvest@indiana.edu Online Science-fair. --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (858) Wed 14 Dec 94 18:22 By: Charles W Good To: All Re: Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b995 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: cgood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles W Good) @Subject: Re: Just a thought! Date: 14 Dec 1994 18:22:54 GMT @Message-Id: <3cnd5u$b8@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> With respect to gizmos that let you make newspaper logs, you don't need them. Just roll a bunch of papers up by hand, stick the roll between your knees, and tie with twine. When you throw these into your wood stove the twine burns off, but the newspapers don't immediately unfold and fly all over the place. The papers stay rolled up in the stove and burn slowly IF they have been sitting around tied up with twine for a couple of weeks. I have been burning newspaper logs this way in my stove for years. NEVER have these papers gone flaming up the flue and caused problems. Regards, Charles Good --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]The Ohi (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (859) Wed 14 Dec 94 18:40 By: Howard Smith To: All Re: Re: DOE REPORTS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b996 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Howard Smith @Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS @Message-Id: <14525.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 18:40:29 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS >From: Marge Wood >Subject: Re: DOE REPORTS > >re: Newt Gingrich--the phone number that was posted a few minutes ago for > >Newt Gingrich is not the correct one; it is 202 225 4501 > >and I LOVE the idea for all of us to call and tell him we like renewable >energy. You can love it without changing parties.... >Marge Marge, You are correct. The fax number quoted before was also in error. The correct fax number for Newt Gingrich should be 202-225-4656. Sorry about the errors. hhs --- ~ QMPro 1.51 ~ Solar Hydrogen BBS Palo Alto, CA Re: DOE REPORTS R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (860) Wed 14 Dec 94 18:47 By: BOB ALLEN 0310 To: All Re: Re[2]: URGENT--DOE about to ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b998 @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: BOB ALLEN 0310 @Subject: Re[2]: URGENT--DOE about to @Message-Id: <15048.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 18:47:34 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List . >response by Billarie to avoid losing the political initiative and to not Please, no ad hominum attacks ... >a strict libertarian I believe the feds have three roles: 1) run the >judiciary, mostly to prevent fraud and to resolve interstate issues, 2) >defend our boarders, and 3) manage our foreign interests. Thats it! But our foreign policy is our energy policy... battleships=oil Our foreign interests is our energy policy... you sell us oil cheaply, or we will kill you . very simple policy, huh ================================================================ Bob Allen psba@atuvm.atu.edu Professor of Chemistry Arkansas Tech University 501-968-0310 Russellville, Ar 72801 Re[2]: URGENT--DOE about to R --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (861) Wed 14 Dec 94 18:57 By: Tom Gray To: All Re: Re: URGENT--DOE about to ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b99a @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: Tom Gray @Subject: Re: URGENT--DOE about to @Message-Id: <15570.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 18:57:57 GMT @Sender: usenet@Graphics.Cornell.edu @Reply-To: Alternative Energy Discussion List Jim Eyer writes: > R> The people who desire energy efficiency in their lives, will fund it. > > Hurrah R. whoever you are. I felt the same reaction but expected a > flood of whining and flaming if I stated my opinions on this matter. Hmmm, nothing like discounting the opinions of those who disagree with you before they can be expressed. Anyway, so you won't be disappointed, whine, whine, flame flame. Now, on to some discussion. > As a person committed to a career in the renewables and efficiency > field, I think the best thing that can happen for new technologies is > for government--state and federal--to: 1) stop assuming they can pick > technological winners All I know about is wind, and in that field, I don't believe government assumes anything of the kind. They hold a competition for wind turbine designs, for example, and pick the ones they think are the best, but everyone knows it's being done on a wing and a prayer. The government is probably never going to have enough money to fund equipment designs all the way into the commercial market and so, at a certain point, the private sector will have to step in and carry the ball. They are getting much more sophisticated as time goes on, by the way. The more recent competitions usually require that a company (1) provide substantial cost-sharing, and (2) come to the table with some industrial partners who give it a fair chance of ultimate success once it gets off the ground. Any company that enters such a competition knows in advance that its development efforts will be bogged down by government bureaucracy and paperwork, so for the companies that do it, it's usually a fairly hard-headed decision that it represents their best chance of succeeding anyway. > and 2) focus on making a more efficient ECONOMIC AND MARKET environment > within which new technology can compete. In such an environment > renewables and efficiency WILL exist and thrive if they are competitive > (and of course they are already competitive in a growing number of > instances). This sounds reasonable, but it's hard to say for sure without more details. Are you referring to accounting for environmental costs, or what? > My only concern is that this is a reactionary, you-gotta-do-something > response by Billarie to avoid losing the political initiative and to not > give the Repubs the opportunity to do it themselves. What we're getting > is incrementalism that, indeed, may do more harm than good. This part I don't understand, unless you mean by what follows that it would be better to wipe the slate clean. If so, it's worth considering. > Obviously we also need to eliminate "subsidies" for oil, nuclear > research programs, and tax rules that are unfair to renewables, to level > the playing field. However, subjecting renewables and efficiency > technologies to the vagaries and competition of the marketplace will make > them more viable in the long run. Sure, but the question is, how long would the run be? Wind energy is pretty close to being competitive today, although it's still more expensive than gas cogen. But in my humble opinion, its cost today is about one-fourth of what it would have been without government support, and it's about 20 years closer to being commercial, *and* it's possible that future wind turbines will be American, rather than European. > DOE (and the Department of Education) are two great big government > boondoggles that we'll all be better off without (unless you suck from > the trough, which I ashamedly admit to myself). They are mostly turf > building, exclusionary, parochial programs and are mostly pork barrel > efforts that are pet projects of powerful congresspersons. Besides, as > a strict libertarian I believe the feds have three roles: 1) run the > judiciary, mostly to prevent fraud and to resolve interstate issues, 2) > defend our boarders, and 3) manage our foreign interests. Thats it! > Nowhere in the Constitution are there provisions for development of and > foisting of energy policy onto US citizens. As a non-libertarian, I believe our government has considerably broader appropriate responsibilities. The Constitution doesn't say anything about overseeing stocks and bonds, either, but since the Great Depression, there hasn't been much sentiment for doing away with the Securities and Exchange Commission. And I could go on with many other examples. The whole reason DOE is there, in the first place, is because the free market hasn't done squat to insulate us from excessive dependence on foreign energy sources, nor will it, *ever*, as long as those sources remain cheap. > By the way, California is hopefully going to dump its huge Energy > Commission too. Yeah, and that is probably a bad idea also. Because of its limitations on coal-burning, California is more dependent than most states on outside energy sources, and someone should be figuring out what to do about that. My guess is that this will turn out to be just about like the stock market. Around the time we get to wiping these agencies out, there will be a shift in the world energy market that will make us remember why they are there. Tom Re: URGENT--DOE about to --- * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (862) Wed 14 Dec 94 19:15 By: Harry H Conover To: All Re: Re: (Slightly off topic) Fresh Water ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/223 0006b99b @PID GIGO+ sn 175 at psybbs vsn 0.99 pl1 From: conover@max.tiac.net (Harry H Conover) @Subject: Re: (Slightly off topic) Fresh Water Date: 14 Dec 1994 19:15:01 GMT @Message-Id: <3cng7l$qg3@sundog.tiac.net> No. Bolier scale and the pitting of turbine blades would cost more than a reverse osmosis desalination plant. In fact, boiler water is periodically de-ionized at significant cost just to reduce the scale and pitting problem. Harry C. --- * Origin: [via Psychotronic BBS = Durham, NC = 919-286-4542]The Int (1:3641/1) @PATH: 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (868) Mon 12 Dec 94 6:36 By: Dick Dillman To: Michael Welch Re: Re: HEY, MAN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Dick, a couple of things. First, this is kind of a test, because > I think that my local homepowr echo messages aren't going out. Messages from your BBS are appearing on the echo just fine it seems. > Second, What's going on with the Greenpeace solar trailer. We would > really like it to power this year's renewable energy fair in April, > but can't get anyone to return my calls. > > Also, it would be great to publish the trailer's schedule in this > echo. Regarding "cyrus", please let me know who you have been trying to contact and I'll do my best to get the information you need. PS: This the second reply message on both topics as I received your earlier messages as well. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (869) Mon 12 Dec 94 8:32 By: Michael Welch To: Dave Paxton Re: RE: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for the info. I guess these appliance sales people are wrong > then, htere are still new units available.I am not sure about Consul I'm pretty sure consul is still available. As a matter of fact, last year I saw a model almost identical to my own 10 yr old model, which works great! > I read some time back that Servel was moveing all their > manufacturing to > S.America and Holland??? Are they still manufacturing here too? IF My consul was made in south america. > POSSIBLE I would rather buy american but if > not > I will have to buy "exotics". At the risk of starting an off-topic of discussion, here, I think you should give a little more thought to that subject. What makes you think they don't need more jobs in other countries? They probably "need" them more than we do. Sorry, I just had to respond. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (870) Wed 14 Dec 94 10:02 By: Leroy Ikerd To: John O'hara Re: ELECTRIC CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JO>There is an Electric Vehicle Symposium at Disneyland December 3, 1994 for JO>details call 800-247-5990 ext 2 John. Thanks for the info. I just returned from out of town and didn't get your message in time. I was wondering if the Disneyland your were refering to was the one in Florida, or the one in California? Not that it matters now, of course. <:)) I am still having trouble with the fact that we are conversing across the length of our country with such ease. It has been raining for three days straight here and if it wasn't for the shop to work in, cabin fever would make me crazy. I hope that the weather is warmer there and your Christmas is a happy one. Leroy in N. Ca. * SLMR 2.1a * Clinton dosen't inhale, he sucks! --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (871) Wed 14 Dec 94 10:02 By: Leroy Ikerd To: Hubert Johnston Re: electric cars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HJ> I'm also one of those who likes electric golf carts. Would you mind HJ>discussing with me what you had in mind? Hubert. When I first got this three wheel golf cart, I thought to make a ranch vehicle of it so my grandkids could use it around here. Seems that I don't have the time to get to that project. The kids got a four wheel Suzuki to ride and the cart just sits for now. I have been in the shop for many days fixing all the things that I broke during the summer. If I can get caught up before I have to go back to work in the spring I may get to fool around with it yet. The person I got the cart from said it would work when he got it, but the bat. were completly gone. and he could only drive it as far as the battery charger cord whould reach. It seems very heavy for my needs and If I can I would like to put the running gear on something like a dune buggy frame only much lighter. Any ideas? Leroy in N. Ca. HJ> * Origin: The Federal Post -{*}- Spring-Lake, NC (1:3634/2) * SLMR 2.1a * Clinton dosen't inhale, he sucks! --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (873) Wed 14 Dec 94 12:02 By: James Rowe To: LEE BUTLER Re: Re: none ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LB> (1) A full color, soft cover ( Architectural Digest Quality ) catalog, LB> Ekose'a Homes =A9 illustrating 23 homes which have been built all over LB> the world by ordinary people like yourself. Thousands of owner occupied LB> homes do not lie. Over the past 15 years government lab.s, universities LB> and individual scientists have monitored and documented the performance LB> of Ekose'a homes. LB> (2) Reprints of pictorial feature stories, interviews, articles, LB> diagrams, drawings and specifications provide general insight to the LB> workings and advantages of the Ekose'a concept. LB> (3) Construction costs for hundreds of homes. Verify and confirm the LB> cost of building an Ekose'a Home before you begin. LB> (4) Ekotecture =A9 The technical paper, presented to the First LB> International Conference on sustainable construction, Tampa Florida, LB> November 6-9, 1994 LB> (5) Third Party Monitoring and Research Material. More than 35 LB> technical papers and research projects have studied the Ekose'a concept LB> of design in some aspect or another. LB> (6) Learn about the ways in which owners tinkered around with the LB> concept and changed their houses. Find out what they result was. LB> (7) Follow the negotiations with the Defense Department, EPA DOE, and LB> HUD for the first prototype community of 5000 homes, completely off the LB> grid. LB> (8) Learn how you can become an Ekotecture concultant, working in a LB> world wide web of utility and manufacturing companies and services. LB> All of this and more with a subscription to the Ekotecture Vision. LB> The cost to be put on this hot line of alternative technology is only LB> $25 per month. Within six months, the company will have a BBS data base LB> server up and running. This will become immediately availible at no LB> additional charge. Details and specifications can then be downloaded LB> instantly. LB> What I am really doing is setting up my new University, right here and LB> now! If you are genuinely interested in the field, you will become a LB> student, paying your way as you go. You will also automatically be in LB> line to go to work for the company. Great, wonderful beautiful, excellent!!! Until I saw the price tag! Yumpin Yimminy!!! I'm a poor man! $25 a month is like a weeks worth of food for my girlfriend and myself. ALL INFORMATION SHOULD BE FREE!!!! Sorry, this is not a personal attack. I really appreciate what you are doing and I under- stand what you are doing. But there is a much easier way, and you will be able to provide all the information for free. The key to this, and all of the world's problems is simple; cooperation. What needs to be done is that the art community in your area needs to have a 3-4 day event, and the proceeds should go toward setting up your University. The primary recipients of `scholarships' for lack of a better word would be those people who helped to set this up in the first place, i.e. free membership for the art community. This could also incorporate farming of all sorts. If someone provides food for the community, yourself included of course, then that person should get a free membership. See what I mean? As long as you are putting in, you should be getting out. Some of us do not have $$ to put in, and I personally would prefer not to trouble myself with the stuff. But anyway, I don't expect you to really jump at this idea, but please think it over. ... Goodness Over Depravity ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- EzyQwk V1.02 * Origin: 1XIS,Webster,NY 28.8vfc,XA,CM (1:2613/119) @PATH: 2613/119 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (877) Tue 13 Dec 94 10:52 By: Gale Barrows To: Doug Heaton Re: Veggie Diesel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:342/501@fidonet ab15748a DH>Research has showed that if agricultural land will yield 2,000 pounds of DH>repeseed per acre and if 7 gallons of biodiesel per acre will satisfy DH>the annual fuel requirements for all farm operations, then approximately DH>6.5% of a farm's acreage will produce sufficient biodiesel for the DH>entire farm. Sounds good. Sort of like going back to the time when a certain portion of the farm was dedicated to feeding the horses to work the rest for market. The main drawback I see is that the horse could do it's own processing of the feed materials while the canola would require extra equipment to rocess it into a usable fuel. This would seem to be fairly easily overcome (and probably with much more efficiency) with cooperative processing among several users in an area. It also might have helped farmer acceptance if the experimentation had been done using a common US or Canadian built tractor rather than an unknown make. Farmers are likely to say "well it worked in one of them rice burner toys but would it work in my John Deere or Case?". Untill researchers start using test equipment the farmer is familiar with, it will be harder to sell to them. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (880) Wed 14 Dec 94 21:27 By: Arlo Hagler To: Ian Woofenden Re: Re: warm batteries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IA: "...I'm thinking of blowing warm air into my battery box from the hot loft via a pipe. I think having them in a space that is heated anyway is best..." Sounds like it should work. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (881) Wed 14 Dec 94 21:35 By: Arlo Hagler To: Mark Whitaker Re: Re: HELLO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MW: "...Still in Portland, but I now have PV power for my computer anyway; getting the hang of it." Hi Mark! Good to hear from you. Let's keep in touch. Curious to hear about the lighting business, etc. Internet address is; ArloHag@f53.n125.z1.fidonet.org. Peace, etc. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (882) Wed 14 Dec 94 21:43 By: Arlo Hagler To: Michael Welch Re: Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, Michael. Just taking the time to say hi, and, if you run accross anything i could use for the Environment show, I would appreciate you're sending it my way, through here, or at my e-mail; ArloHag@f53.n125.z1.fidonet.org. Peace, etc. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (898) Wed 14 Dec 94 23:03 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Tony Pereira Re: Re: RE: MILK JUG SALVAGE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TP> Hi Malcom ! Thanks for the info. There's been awhile since I done TP> Nuclear Physics. I have a very clear memory that there is an non-rad TP> isotope of U238, form the ten or so know, in the lower range. It is quite TP> possible that what you are saying is true. I would like more info and TP> references to check it out. I understand what you are saying. Pax terra. Hi Tony, I'll root around some too, meeet ya back here when I have more info. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (899) Wed 14 Dec 94 23:08 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Michael Welch Re: Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MW> Hi Dick, I'm beginning to wonder if my HOMEPOWR Fidonet messages are going MW> out. Please let me know if you (or anyone else) are seeing messages coming MW> out of the Home Power BBS. they're getting down here to Garberville's REDNET, 'course we get ours from Eureka, so it could be a hangup (so to speak) down the line, , , --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (900) Tue 13 Dec 94 22:19 By: Dave Zingg To: Gale Barrows Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase H ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:212/1006.0 2eee1dd6 Quoting Gale Barrows to Kerry Miller GB> Myself, I think the greatest invention yet is the heated GB> seat for the outhouse, especialy when it is 20 below zero GB> !!! Now we don't even have the Sears catalog. But we do GB> have Computer Shopper. The folks at Ziff-Davis are going to love that one ... :) ... Words fail me, much to the relief of the audience. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (901) Tue 13 Dec 94 22:41 By: Dave Zingg To: Bob Kelland Re: Effects of Windmill Blad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:212/1006.0 2eee2300 Quoting Bob Kelland to All BK> For this first observed icing of the blades on the 2-bladed hawt the BK> build-up was evenly spread over the entire windward surface of the BK> blades to a depth of approximately 3/4 inch. The aerodynamics of the BK> blades were clearly spoiled by the ice as the blades barely turned in a BK> fairly strong wind. (15-20 mph) Aircraft pilots don't like ice on their aerodynamic surfaces (wings) either. It makes the aircraft heavier and also destroys lift, when it's needed more than ever. I've heard that the Cessna Centurion has an inflatable surface along the leading edge of the wing that repeatedly inflates and deflates to prevent ice buildup. I haven't ever seen one first hand nor do I know how well it would work for your application. Dave ... Windows would look better with curtains. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (902) Tue 13 Dec 94 23:02 By: Dave Zingg To: Ian Woofenden Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:212/1006.0 2eee27ee Quoting Ian Woofenden to All IW> Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 IW> pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 IW> S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. IW> The back issues of HP are well worth owning, IMO, providing a IW> liberal education on the subject. I'm getting a bit overloaded on magazines. I wonder if HP would consider putting one or more year's of back issues on a cd-rom? Or did I hear Don mention something like this a few months back? ... No, Taco Bell is NOT the Mexican telephone company! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (903) Tue 13 Dec 94 23:18 By: Dave Zingg To: Michael Welch Re: Wondering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:212/1006.0 2eee2bb0 Quoting Michael Welch to Dick Dillman MW> Hi Dick, I'm beginning to wonder if my HOMEPOWR Fidonet MW> messages are going out. Please let me know if you (or MW> anyone else) are seeing messages coming out of the Home MW> Power BBS. They made it to San Luis Obispo, CA. I think that this bbs is fed via Planet Connect, so you message should be fairly widespread. I'm not too crazy about the internet stuff in the echo. It seems that their messages are much longer and have less content. The duplicates don't help much either, but I guess that''s just a temporary condition. ... Open the pod bay doors, Hal. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (922) Fri 16 Dec 94 21:52 By: Lawrence London To: Dave Zingg Re: Wondering St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 af15b68a @REPLY: 1:212/1006.0 2eee2bb0 @PID: FM 2.02 > I'm not too crazy about the internet stuff in the echo. It seems > that their messages are much longer and have less content. Gating between HOMEPOWR and alt.renewable.energy (which has the maining lists AE and renew-energy gated R/W into it) has been discontinued as of tonight, Friday, Dec. 16th 1994. There will be no more "internet stuff" in this echo until someone else provides gating. Lawrence London EARTH*Net Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo FidoNet: 1:3641/1.502 Internet: london@sunSITE.unc.edu Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (926) Thu 15 Dec 94 19:17 By: Tom Porter To: Michael Welch Re: GREENPEACE TRAILER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I have left 3 voice messages in the last couple of months to see if > we could get Arcata's Renewable Energy Fair on the list of visit sites > for Greenpeace's solar system trailer. No return calls. Can you get > someone to give me a voice call at Redwood Alliance (707)822-7884? Hi Michael - If you get the 'list', we'd be interested too... > Also, it would be great to publish an itinerary here when one is > available. Agreed - Hopefully someone will drop it in a message > BTW, I'm leaving the message here instead of elsewhere to make sure > our BBS is sending out local messages ok. Hey, doing _great_ - Got out to Atlanta, GA and back to Ukiah, CA ;-) > Thanks for all. You're Welcome - Tom Porter, Hotel_California, Ukiah, CA --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hotel_California (1:133/1499) @PATH: 133/1499 201 3656/120 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (934) Wed 14 Dec 94 13:52 By: Ian Woofenden To: MShadowfax Re: suntube ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 2a7dcca6 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006aec1 On (05 Dec 94) MShadowfax wrote to All... M > I've read about these and had a chance to see them M > "demonstrated" last week. They work well - provided you have M > a south or near-south exposure to the daily sunshine. They DO M > NOT work at night! There is no light source, etc. in there. M > It is simply a mirrored pipe to a domed reflector mounted on M > your roof. They reduce your daily energy consumption by M > negating the need for using electric lights during the day. M > They seem ideally suited for rooms with few or M > poorly-oriented/blocked windows, but they're not the Answer M > to all your power problems by any stretch of the imagination. What advantage(s) do these have over skylights (of which I am an advocate)? The first *disadvantage* I can see is that it doesn't sound like you can see through them. Ian ... Alright, who g r e a s e d the tagline? --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (935) Wed 14 Dec 94 13:57 By: Ian Woofenden To: JOHN W DAILEY Re: Whisper 1000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 8fd90ca1 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006aebc On (06 Dec 94) JOHN W DAILEY wrote to All... JW> Yes, please do keep us posted on ice and snow bu7ildup JW> effects on your wind generator's prop. Our Whisper 1000 seems JW> to shed ice and snow fairly soon after our Chinook winds JW> start blowing, with little vibration noticed. How long have you had your Whisper, John? Are you happy with it? We just received ours recently and I plan to gather the rest of the materials I need and get it flying soon. Have any sage advice on installation? Did you do it yourself? I decided to spring for the composite blades, since I saw what happened to the wood ones on our old Wincharger. I'm really looking forward to having the increased power, especially after going without wind power for a year here. Ian ... Why is the origin line at the end if it means the beginning? --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (936) Wed 14 Dec 94 14:08 By: Ian Woofenden To: Fritz Oppliger Re: Trace Inverter cold feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 1137d0d5 @REPLY: 1:125/42 8abd826d On (10 Dec 94) Fritz Oppliger wrote to Ian Woofenden... FO> What is your regular status on the TRACE? I mean, is it in FO> tick2 (=ticktick) mode or do you run permanent AC loads? No permanent AC loads here. FO> Mine has never yet shut down when there was a load on it FO> (xept due to overvoltage while the batteries were being FO> charged) - it just goes into limbo from tick2 mode when it FO> gets cold. How about if you leave a permanent load on it overnight when it's cold? FO> I'm not sure I do. There is a BATTERY LOW indicator LCD but I FO> have NEVER seen it come on yet. I'd have to look, but I think that is *really* low battery, like low enough to hurt the inverter or something. I have never seen mine on either. I can't put my hands on my manual, but it seems to me that there is a low battery cut out at some low level even if you didn't buy the add on option, but it probably depends on the model. FO> Anyhow, when I go to start the inverter back up the FO> temperature has not risen at all and yet the trace starts FO> beating its little heart without complaint. It won't complain. It will try again and again. I mean, mine will if it has cut out. Then if I don't charge or reduce loads, after a brief time it will cut out again. But I may be beating a horse here - dead or alive. Time to call Trace on your model and see what they say. FO> The voltage never goes below 12VDC. But does it hover around 12.0 to 12.2? FO> I guess I should be more sigh-end-tiffick about it all, put FO> the thermometer right in with the trace, and one with the FO> batteries (ten inches away in a box) plus hook up some FO> independent measuring equipment to monitor heart (I mean FO> TRACE) rate, voltage etc... Yeah . How about waiting for a cold night and putting a heater next to the Trace (but *not* the batteries) and see if the results differ? Ian ... Consult a real expert - Call your mother! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (937) Wed 14 Dec 94 20:35 By: Michael Welch To: Brian Mcminn Re: RE: LED LIGHTING EFFICIENCY ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The efficiency of LED's has been going up steadily over the past few > years. It was only recently, though, that generic LED's surpassed > the > efficiency of incandescent bulbs. I think it was Spectrum (from > IEEE) > where I recently read an article on LED's for general illumination. > I'll look it up if anyone requests. > Check out the article in the Dec issue of Home Power about a couple of multi-led lights commercially available. The article's photos don't do them justice, they work better than they appear in the photos. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (938) Thu 15 Dec 94 17:45 By: Will Rausch To: Mike Re: RE: PREVENTIO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Does anyone know how stratification of water is maintained in solar > >ponds (such as exist in the experimental facility in the Jordan > valley > >for example)? The principle of operation there, as I understand > it, > >is that the hot water at the bottom of the pond is also more > saline, > >and stays heavier than the top strata. Thus hot water does not rise > to > >the top to lose heat. > > >How are winds prevented from mixing the water? Does anyone have an > >idea whether baffles are used? Any information on their spacing, > how > >they are held in place, etc.? Years ago I read an article in Popular Science on these ponds in Isreal and how they worked, and the theory behind their operation. I beleave it was in the late 1960s or 1970s but may have been a bit later. In any event the article was better than 10 years ago. (It was prior to my divorce - Thats how I gague time.) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: NCC-1701 ENTERPRISE Platteville, CO 303-785-0217 (1:104/769) @PATH: 104/769 169 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (939) Fri 16 Dec 94 9:03 By: Arlo Hagler To: Michael Welch Re: Re: RE: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MW: "...> POSSIBLE I would rather buy american but if > not > I will have to buy "exotics". At the risk of starting an off-topic of discussion, here, I think you should give a little more thought to that subject. What makes you think they don't need more jobs in other countries? They probably "need" them more than we do. Sorry, I just had to respond." Also, with GATT and NAFTA passing, "American Made" will soon become irrelevant. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (953) Fri 16 Dec 94 14:49 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Dave Zingg Re: Effects of Windmill Blad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c8101726 -> I've heard that the Cessna Centurion has an inflatable surface along the -> leading edge of the wing that repeatedly inflates and deflates to prevent -> ice buildup. I haven't ever seen one first hand nor do I know how well it -> would work for your application. On most airplanes licensed to flight into "Known Icing" conditions the leading edges of the wings are either heated or provided with De-icing boots which as you say, flex and break the ice before it gets thick and heavy enough to cause problems. Boots require the attention of the pilot however. Heat does not. On propellers they mostly have what's called "Hot Props" which are resistance heating elements which prevent ice forming. This is a well known and mature technology for propellers and other rotating airfoils. There are also instances of WET props which have anti icing sprays afixed to spray anti-freeze onto the blades. That might be the best approach on windmachines. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (969) Fri 16 Dec 94 8:16 By: Angela Burns To: Bob Roach Re: Divert dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.02 80357 @MSGID: 1:394/4 548fea48 @REPLY: 1:271/270 7527c499 I divert the heat from our dryer into the house in the winter by attaching a pantyhose leg to the dryer vent with a fat rubber band. Just check the pantyhose "lint collector" regularly to make sure it's not too full. We do laundry just constantly at our house -- 3 or 4 loads a day -- and have to change out the collector only about once a week. Also, it's just a lot easier to throw it away when full instead of fighting with it to empty it. No sense in throwing away all that heat to the outside! --- * Origin: The EDGE, Hammond_LA *1-504-345-3797* (1:394/4) @PATH: 394/4 7 396/2 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (971) Fri 16 Dec 94 8:51 By: Vic Dura To: Lee Butler Re: ALTERNATIVE ECONOMY PHILO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3670/10@fidonet.org a03ea9b8 LB> Lee Porter Butler (christian name) LB> Alpha Lee Rainbow Light Cloud (inner identity ) The Bird People, Builders LB> of a New Dawn, Eloheim, Arc Angels, light beings, sentient point of LB> persepctive. You should live in Boulder CO. You would feel very comfortable there. Regards, Vic Dura (victor.dura@woodybbs.com) Rogersville, AL --- * RM 1.3 01752 * Those not part of the solution, are part of the problem. --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0087 * Origin: Data Stream BBS 205-232-2400 28.8K Athens,Ala (1:3670/10) @PATH: 3670/10 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (972) Thu 15 Dec 94 11:01 By: Dave Paxton To: Michael Welch Re: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 877A9650 MW>My propane refrig uses 4 D cells for lighting, and no electricity for MW>thermostat. It is a Consul, and it works GREAT and uses very little MW>propane. Best of luck. Is Consul made in USA or an import? If at all possible I would like to buy US but if I can't find any will have to go with an import. Big dave * SLMR 2.1a * Some dance to remember, some dance to forget! --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-452-5227 (1:369/3.0) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/52 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (973) Thu 15 Dec 94 11:03 By: Dave Paxton To: Mark Whitaker Re: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 877A9651 MW>Alternative Energy Engineering of Garberville, CA sells two different LP MW>fridges, a Servel by Dometic, with a 120VAC backup, and an all gas Consul. MW>the Servel has 7.7 CF capacity, and the Consul has 7.8. The ph# for AEE is MW>800/777-6609. I'm sure these must be fairly available anywhere tho.. MW>mark Thanks for the input. Is servel made in US? I was under the conception they closed down in the US and are only imported from S.Am. and Europe. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * We are all prisoners of our own device! --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-452-5227 (1:369/3.0) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/52 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (974) Thu 15 Dec 94 19:49 By: Ian Woofenden To: ifjed Re: solar energy weenie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 d290f239 @REPLY: 1:3641/223 0006b7e2 On (10 Dec 94) ifjed@NMSUA.NMSU.EDU wrote to All... i > I guess I'm just a clueless weenie when it comes to solar i > power, but reading solar energy brochures leaves me knowning i > nothing. Whose brochures? Get the catalog from Sunelco at 1-800-338-6844. It's an education. There are other good ones too. i > My question is this, Can I afford to put solar energy into my i > house? My only major appliances are a freezer-refrig (less i > than five years old), a hot water heater, a stove/oven and my i > lighting. I don't have a TV, dishwasher, clotheswasher/dryer, i > computer, hairblower, shaver, air conditioner and anything i > else. I live at 8000 ft in southern New Mexico and, because i > of the aspect, the sun only shines on my house from about 10 i > to 4 this time of the year. Electricity, though i > non-renewable, is cheap (last bill was $65) co-op power. You won't make a PV system pay for quite a while at that rate. Forget about the water heater and range on PV, those would be propane or natural gas in an AE house. i > However, wind storms, which can occur at any time of the i > year, often disrupt power. If *this* and a desire to use renewable energy are enough for you (ie - it doesn't have to be "cost effective"), go for it. Start to set up a little back up system for power outages, or gradually convert the whole house. Some people are going PV "a circuit at a time". i > Any solar energy wizards or gurus out there? Not me. Just a semi-knowledgeable user. Get _Home Power_. All the gurus and wizards hang out there. Buying all the back issues would be a great investment to make. Ian ... So many alternative energy people either have never heard of the laws of thermodynamics or else they expect Congress to repeal them. - Don Lancaster --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (978) Fri 16 Dec 94 23:05 By: Michael Davis To: John Stanley Re: Trace Inverter Cold Feet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:207/225@fidonet.org 43a4a4bf S>I shelled out a fortune for 80 ED-160 reconditioned ni-cads. They now JS>sit unused because after a year of use because they won't even hold JS>enough charge to get me through the night. I now have 24 Trojan L-16's JS>in an insulated, heated garage. Hi John, Would you like to sell those Ni-Cads? Remember to make it cheap. Mike ___ * MR/2 2.09A NR * --- QScan v1.131b / 01-0417 * Origin: Prime Connection - Riverside,CA - 909.274.9637*USR/DS (1:207/225) @PATH: 207/225 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (983) Wed 14 Dec 94 18:52 By: Glen Todd To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:128/203 2eef3f43 @TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 8271 Bright the day, Malcolm! Monday December 12 1994 20:25, Malcolm Stebbins wrote to L-Debaillie@Cecer.Army.Mil: MS> Another heat storage method that has worked; use black-painted 55 gal. MS> drums filled with water to absorb heat in day, re-radiate at night. Suggestions on a good (salvage) source for these, please. I.m getting ready to expand our solar setup, and this dounds like a good bet. Wind to thy wings, Glen Drunk Borg: "Rsilience in floor tile. Wan'be similated?" --- d'Bridge 1.58/FastEcho 1.41 * Origin: >>>====> High Reaches CyberSchool BBS <====<<< (1:128/203) @PATH: 128/203 1320 1300 1 158 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (984) Sat 17 Dec 94 0:00 By: John O'hara To: Leroy Ikerd Re: ELECTRIC CARS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leroy, It was at Disneyland (which is in Anaheim, CA). Disneyworld is here in Florida. Sorry you missed the note. My wife works for the Florida Solar Energy Center here in Cape Canaveral which has been doing research in using hydrogen as a vehicle fuel source. The recent world conference brought several organizations in that are developing electric cars using fuel cells. This so far is the most practical means for electrical energy because of the reduced weight and increased power and range. Vehicles can do upto 70 mph and cruise about 120 miles on just pennies worth of fuel. A home unit running off 220 v. produces the hydrogen. Other variations will allow hydrogen production as a recharge function. This technology looks very promising. Combined with composite materials the prototypes I have seen are not far from production vehicles. For more info contact FSEC at (407) 783-3000. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Techtalk BBS, Cocoa, FL 407-635-8833 (1:374/1) @PATH: 374/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (985) Thu 15 Dec 94 9:34 By: Gale Barrows To: James Rowe Re: Re: Anybody know about ve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >1. Mix oil with 15% methanol and 0.5% lye. Heat on a stove and stir >constantly, without letting the mixture boil, for 40 mins. JR> EM>I used 19% methanol and 1% lye (dry) by weight. I also did not use EM>any heat (72 F room temp) and let it sit about 1 hour after stirring. EM>Worked OK. GB> Why was the lye used? When i was in the military, we used an engine GB> (built by Lycoming ?) in our 2 1/2 ton trucks that could use vegetable GB> cooking oil as a fuel, straight. It also could use gasoline, diesel, GB> peanut oil, soybean oil, diesel, jet fuel and many other flammable GB> liquids. I have often wondered why that technology has not been GB> further developed and applied to smaller civillian vehicles and GB> equipment. JR> JR> What I would like to know is whether I can convert my normal Unleaded JR>style engine over to something that could use this sort of fuel? I JR>would JR>rather stop supplying the petroleum industry with more money, so JR>anything I JR>can do I want to do. Yes you can but at *GREAT* expense. After all, GM converted one of their gasoline engines to diesel. All ity took was a redesigned cylinder head and pistons. Had to substitute a fuel injector pump and fuel injectors for the carburetor and spark plugs. Problem was, the engine didn't last worth a hoot and most cars using that engine have had it replaced with a regular gasoline engine. If you want a diesel you are far better off just starting with an engine designed from the start as a diesel. The multi fuel engines were diesels modified to use about any flammible liquid ranging from gasoline to realy poor diesel to cooking oil. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (987) Sat 17 Dec 94 16:29 By: Doug Heaton To: Gale Barrows Re: Veggie Diesel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:342/501@fidonet af9051b7 @PID: FM 2.02 Gale: > Sounds good. Sort of like going back to the time when > a certain portion of the farm was dedicated to feeding > the horses to work the rest for market. The main > drawback I see is that the horse could do it's own > processing of the feed materials while the canola > would require extra equipment to rocess it into a > usable fuel. This would seem to be fairly easily > overcome (and probably with much more efficiency) with > cooperative processing among several users in an area. True but at what point would the government tax the ideas out of existance or would the Exxon's of the world move in to mess it all up? This may be better left to the small scale amateurs. > It also might have helped farmer acceptance if the > experimentation had been done using a common US or > Canadian built tractor rather than an unknown make. > Farmers are likely to say "well it worked in one of > them rice burner toys but would it work in my John > Deere or Case?". I understand that the U of Idaho is also feeding this fuel to a GMC 3/4 ton truck. Do we consider General Motor's products to be rice burners? Commercial diesel is pretty junky stuff when you see how it is made. All of the waste hydrocarbon streams from a refinery end up in the diesel tank. A little create blending and Voila! the diesel is ready for market. Doug. --- * Origin: ** Doug's Domain **, Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada (1:342/501) @PATH: 342/501 35 61 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1002) Sun 18 Dec 94 15:17 By: Mike Hipp To: All Re: Solar and/or wind based energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2613/310 2EF49C76 Hi, I am a first time user of any BBS, so I hope this works. My question is about self produced energy. In my "dream" home I would like to produce my own energy. Is solar more efficient than a windmill? Does it depend on geographic locations? Which costs more to initially set up and which would be more efficient? I have heard that they now make solar panels which require very little light, and even if it is cloudy that would still be light enough. What type of laws regulate the utility companies and obligate them to buy back surplus energy produced? And finally, is there any form of self-contained energy that I am not aware of? I thank you for your response. * SPITFIRE v3.4 --- Alexi/Mail 2.00 (#117) * Origin: Maritime Discovery Center, Rochester NY, 716-581-0328 (1:2613/310) @PATH: 2613/310 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1042) Sun 18 Dec 94 21:14 By: James Rowe To: Gale Barrows Re: Re: Anybody know about ve ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2613/119@fidonet.org 764aa718 GB>Yes you can but at *GREAT* expense. After all, GM converted one GB>of their gasoline engines to diesel. All ity took was a GB>redesigned cylinder head and pistons. Had to substitute a fuel GB>injector pump and fuel injectors for the carburetor and spark GB>plugs. Problem was, the engine didn't last worth a hoot and most GB>cars using that engine have had it replaced with a regular GB>gasoline engine. If you want a diesel you are far better off just GB>starting with an engine designed from the start as a diesel. The GB>multi fuel engines were diesels modified to use about any GB>flammible liquid ranging from gasoline to realy poor diesel to GB>cooking oil. Well thankyou for the response. Although I am disappointed, I expected no less. I would like to use alternative energy sources whenever possible. I can't seem to find a clean way to travel if I want to make any sort of time at all. Now if I were to find an diesel engine made by VW, does anyone have a clue whether it would be compatible with my transmission, cooling system and so on? And would it really have that much impact on my pollution output, or would I be wasting my money? --- Ezycom V1.02 01fa0061 * Origin: 1XIS,Webster,NY 28.8vfc,XA,CM (1:2613/119) @PATH: 2613/119 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1045) Mon 19 Dec 94 12:03 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Mike Hipp Re: Solar and/or wind based e ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org c98c14c5 -> Hi, I am a first time user of any BBS, so I hope this works. It did. You done good. -> energy. Is solar more efficient than a windmill? Does it depend on -> geographic locations? Which costs more to initially set up and which would -> be more efficient Efficiency is a nebulous term, and is substantially in the eye of the proponent. (Or manufacturer. ) Pretty much as is cost effectiveness. I prefer solar because where I live the sun shines a LOT. But then P V cells cost a lot and I can't make them myself, so most of my experience has been with wind power. After twenty years or so of tinkering with it and building some pretty terrible wind machines, (Eyesores according to my wife) I figure I've generated almost enough juice to electrocute a gnat. (Blow one up at least... I've generated Hydrogen via electrolysis with a large percentage of the Wind generated electricity I've made.) Under the wind conditions I endure, dead calm one day, a full gale the next, it's best used to charge batteries or other forms of storage, NOT to be relied upon as a primary source of power. Where there are relatively smooth, relatively consistent winds, the situation is much improved. Near the coast where ON-shore breezes can be relied upon, substantial power is available. Other locations may also have good wind conditions, but as a general rule you must locate WHERE the wind blows consistently if you want to benefit from it. -> I have heard that they now make solar panels which require very -> little light, and even if it is cloudy that would still be light enough. Don't count on THAT! The amount of usable power you get is Directly proportional to the amount of light available to the P V's, and while you make "some" power on cloudy days you won't make "enough." (Actually, there's NEVER "enough!" You'll find uses for ALL you can make if you're like most folks.) -> type of laws regulate the utility companies and obligate them to buy back -> surplus energy produced? You'll find that unless you're in an EXCEPTIONAL location this is the LEAST of your worries. In any case they won't pay you enough for it to make it worth your effort. (They can make it cheaper!) -> And finally, is there any form of self-contained energy that I am not -> aware of? Only God can answer that, Mike. -> I thank you for your response. And we ALL thank -you- for politely asking intelligent questions. You wouldn't believe how many first time users DON'T! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1047) Mon 19 Dec 94 8:37 By: Ben Ringwald To: Dave Zingg Re: Wondering ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:124/4115.251 2ef54756 @REPLY: 1:212/1006.0 2eee2bb0 Hello Dave! 13 Dec 94 23:18, Dave Zingg wrote to Michael Welch: DZ> I'm not too crazy about the internet stuff in the echo. It seems that DZ> their messages are much longer and have less content. The duplicates don't DZ> help much either, but I guess that''s just a temporary condition. That's what I've been thinking ever since "Internet" came into this echo.... Lot's of junk & dupes, & almost NO GOOD info. I'm deleting most of their junk! Perhaps it will get better. Ben --- GoldED 2.42.G0615 * Origin: Welcome to Pecan Valley * FW Texas (1:124/4115.251) @PATH: 124/4115 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1072) Mon 19 Dec 94 16:24 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Dave Zingg Re: Re: Effects of Windmill Blad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DZ> I've heard that the Cessna Centurion has an inflatable surface along the DZ> leading edge of the wing that repeatedly inflates and deflates to prevent DZ> ice buildup. I haven't ever seen one first hand nor do I know how well it on wings, there are both heated and inflatable cuffs, as well as anti-freeze drizzlers (buncha little holes along leading edge) these are on many general aviation aircraft as well as almost all commercial birds, doubt this is a technology you want, tho it might sbe worth a try; seems like the destruction of the airfoil shape is prob'ly retarder enough to keep the thing from self destructing, --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1073) Mon 19 Dec 94 16:54 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Glen Todd Re: Re: temp fluctuation in solarium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GT> Suggestions on a good (salvage) source for these, please. I.m getting re GT> to expand our solar setup, and this dounds like a good bet. Prob'ly the easiest is either the local petroleum distributors, or large restaurant supply businesses. Check the yellow pages, , etc. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1076) Wed 14 Dec 94 15:58 By: Tom Lent To: Mark Richardson Re: Re: DIESEL ALTERNATIVES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Interchem Industries (9135 barton, Overland Park, KS 66214, 913/599-0800) produces a "biodiesel" from soy oil that is a drop in replacement for petroleum based diesel. We drove a tractor trailer (pulling a solar generator) 25,000 miles using blends ranging from 20/80 (soy/petrol) to 100/0 depending upon how much of the stuff we had around at the time with no significant problems. Tech specs are virtually identical: acceleration and MPG are the same. Only conversion issue: It eats rubber, so any rubber fuel lines must be changed out to teflon or other plastic. Safety? Like any veggie oil, rags soaked in it are prone to spontaneous combustion - use the same procedures you would with linseed oil (water soak). Otherwise, it is far safer to handle than diesel wil no volatility, no fumes, low toxicity. Best of all the tailpipe smells more like the back of a McDonalds than a refinery..... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (1:125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1077) Wed 14 Dec 94 16:03 By: Tom Lent To: Michael Welch Re: Re: HEY, MAN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyrus, the solar generator is sitting in the southern California desert sun topping off its batteries right now with no clear future in sight for the moment. A major downsizing at Greenpeace (just like the for profit corporations!) has resulted in the end of Greenpeace Records, the part of Greenpeace that put the trailer together and cut the CD with it. As a result, there is no one to coordinate its use right now, and even more to the point, no budget to support its travels (driver pay, fuel, taxes, tractor rental, insurance, etc. - it cost alot to keep it on the road). SHould this change, I certainly will keep you in mind. Tom --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (1:125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1078) Wed 14 Dec 94 16:19 By: Tom Lent To: Steve Williamson Re: PLANS FOR YOUR PASSIVE SOLAR DHW? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Your description was quite interesting (of your PVC pipe solar water heater) however the limits of the written word are on my ailing brain. DO you have a sketch of what you did that you could share? I'd love to see it. Tom Lent Greenpeace, 568 Howard St, 3rd Floor, SF, CA 94105 Thanks... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (1:125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1079) Thu 15 Dec 94 10:14 By: Michael Welch To: Sean Smith Re: DOE STUDENT RESEARCH PROG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SS>Last I knew HomePower Magazine offered a diskette containing a listing of >current renewable energy educational programs being offered around the count > I don't have the exact info right now, but HOMEPOWER should be able to fill >you in. Here's what info I have... SS>Home Power Magazine POB 520, Ashland OR 97520, SS>Editorial and advertising at 916.475.3179 (voice and FAX), Subscriptions and >back issue info at 916.475.0830 Home Power BBS at 707.822.8640 For further info on the cdrom and other Home Power stuff, sent e-mail to our info-server: hp.info@homepower.org --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1080) Fri 16 Dec 94 9:17 By: Michael Welch To: Tom Porter Re: RE: PEDDLE POWER? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi - If folks would post the _Home Power_ Issues and the associated > Table of contents, I'd be glad to complie a Data Base and make it > available... If you would do a short key-word list for the Hello Tom, I'm the one that put together all the hp articles to be made available on our bbs. If you would like to have them online as well, give me a call or call our bbs. Redwood Alliance & the Home Power BBS 707-822-7884 voice 707-822-8640 bbs --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1081) Fri 16 Dec 94 9:22 By: Michael Welch To: Jean Merrick Re: GREAT NEWS ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks a million for the totally inappropriate, irrelevant, too long advertisement. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1084) Sun 18 Dec 94 13:12 By: Gale Barrows To: Dave Zingg Re: Re: AZ Enviro Showcase H ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:212/1006.0 2eee1dd6 In a message of , Dave Zingg (1:212/1006) writes: DZ> Quoting Gale Barrows to Kerry Miller GB> Myself, I think the greatest invention yet is the heated GB> seat for the outhouse, especialy when it is 20 below zero GB> !!! Now we don't even have the Sears catalog. But we do GB> have Computer Shopper. DZ> The folks at Ziff-Davis are going to love that one ... :) Gotta do something with the old ones !!! Besides, that coated paper leaves too much ash in the burner. I remeber a saying scrawled on about all latrine walls, "Don't use the Stars and Stripes (the GI newspaper) for toilet paper. The propaganda causes a rash." --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1085) Sun 18 Dec 94 13:21 By: Gale Barrows To: Lee Butler Re: Sense of humour ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <4942.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> In a message of , Lee Butler (unknown address) writes: LB>From: Lee Butler LB>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 12:21:27 GMT LB>I, like most of you, get up and XXXX every morning. I have the same LB>frustrations, complexes and self destructive tendencies that all of you LB>have.This morning, reading the fantastic replies I have LB>received-generated LB>on the internet has left me belly laughing, delighted and amused.I have LB>finally arrived. I would rather be controversial than ignored. Sorry about that but from here on out you will just be ignored, at least by me !!! --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1086) Sun 18 Dec 94 13:25 By: Gale Barrows To: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" Re: Re: Sense of humour ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <17988.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> In a message of , "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" (unknown address) writes: "R>From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" "R>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 16:59:48 GMT "R>On Sat, 3 Dec 1994 07:17:37 -0500, "Lee Butler" "R>wrote: "R>Good morning, Lee! Personally, I've enjoyed the dialog that you've "R>generated since joining AE though you might not appreciate my reasons. "R>I've received several private requests to "do something" about you "R>in my function as list owner. First, I don't even know if you will get this message as I am not on internet but work Fido net which is the origin and home of this echo. Next, what is a "list owner"? Is it something like a Fido moderator as Don Kuhla is for this echo ? --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1087) Sun 18 Dec 94 13:32 By: Gale Barrows To: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <18025.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> In a message of , "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" (unknown address) writes: "R>From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" "R>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 17:02:48 GMT "R>Thanks to Mitch at Cornell.Edu, we now are bi-directionally linked "R>to the usenet newsgroup alt.energy.renewable. "R>To those of you who are reading alt.energy.renewable right now, "R>let me introduce myself: What is the connection and who is boss on Fido-Net echo Homepowr which is where I am readng this message !!! As far as i know, Don Kuhla is boss and God here. "R>My name is Clyde R. Visser and I am the list owner of AE, the "R>Alternative Energy discussion list. I established this list "R>a little over a year ago to facilitate positive communications "R>on the subject of alternative and/or renewable energy technologies. "R>The sci.energy newsgroup was a bit, er, acerbic at times on "R>this topic. Since the charter of AE and alt.energy.renewable "R>are essentially the same, we, the "AE People" decided to link up "R>with the "alt.energy.renewable People". "If anyone objects to this "R>union, let them speak now or forever hold their peace". Anyway, "R>if you're reading the newsgroup and want to subscribe to the "R>mailing list, here's a copy of the standard list announcement... "R>AE on LISTSERV@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu - AE Alternative Energy "R> Discussion Mailing List "R>The AE Alternative Energy Discussion Mailing List is intended to "R>provide a forum to discuss the current state of the art and "R>future direction of alternative energy sources that are renewable "R>and sustainable. It is *not* intended to discuss either AE "R>appropriateness or comparisons with conventional energy sources "R>such as fossil or nuclear fuels. Those "discussions" are best "R>relegated to the appropriate usenet newsgroup. "R>An alternative energy source is taken to include solar, wind, "R>geothermal, tidal, electro-chemical, hydro-electric, or any "R>renewable and sustainable energy source. It is also assumed to "R>exclude fuels such as fossil and nuclear since these literally "R>take an act of God to create. This is in opposition to the goals and origins of Homepowr which was and is also intersted in home use of fossil fuels (and probably nuclear if the Russians were to offer their submarine reactors on the surplus market 8-} ) as an alternative to using utility supplied energy. In fact it is my understanding that your side of the echo exists as a courtesy from the Fido-Net side which apparently predates your internet side. Perhaps seperation is in order if Johny Come Lately's try to change the scope of the echo. I would hate to see such a thing come to be as there is *some* [ 8-)] good info coming from your side. "R>To subscribe to the AE mailing list, send the following command "R>to the LISTSERVer at LISTSERV@SJSUVM1 (bitnet) or "R>LISTSERV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU (InterNet): "R>SUBSCRIBE AE firstname lastname "R>After subscribing, you may enable the digest feature by sending "R>'SET AE DIGEST' to the LISTSERVer. "R>After subscribing, messages may be sent to the list by sending "R>to: AE@SJSUVM1 (bitnet) or ae@sjsuvm1.sjsu.edu (InterNet). "R>List owner: Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN "R>crv "R>alt.energy.renewable link "R>--- "R> * Origin: Psychotronic BBS (1:3641/1) --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1088) Sun 18 Dec 94 13:46 By: Gale Barrows To: McBeath Re: Re: Alcohol as Fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <532.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> M>List Bill Kovarik (wkovarik@RUACAD.AC.RUNET.EDU) wrote: M>: Is there a scientific reason it * Should * run better M>: with a little water? M>: Well, yes, as I understand it, well-atomized water droplets M>: in fuel are known to slow down the combustion wave front, M>: preventing pre-detonation and giving the car a more uniformly M>: distributed ignition, which is the equivalent of an octane boost. M>: But that is under highly controlled conditions. M>there was a big discussion on this in one of the other news groups M>just recently. i'll try to find it and post the informantion. I M>believe it was rec.aviation.homebuilt, and yes, it was used for M>aircraft engines.... M>: Of course, if your car doesnt run better in the rain, maybe M>: the little droplets arent getting into the carburetor in a M>: way that helps it run. Water injection is nothing new for gasoline engine use. It has been around since the 1920's in cars and farm tractors. The term is possibly a misnomer as water is simply sprayed in a mist form into the airstream as it passes through the carburetor or intake manifold. the efect is as described above. It does work, especialy with low grade gasoline. There is also a power gain and there is less carbon build up in the cylinder heads. The system was even used in fighter aircraft before they started going high enough that freezing was a problem. Even then the system was used with an alcohol addition to prevent freezing. I believe the systems can still be bought through such sources as J.C. Whitney. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1089) Sun 18 Dec 94 14:09 By: Gale Barrows To: Robin van Spaandonk Re: (Slightly off topic) Fresh Water ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <1725.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> Rv>I have often wondered if it would be worthwhile designing thermal Rv>power plants to use salt water instead of fresh. As they need to Rv>boil water anyway to generate power, it may as well be salt water, Rv>and both the condensate (distilled water) and the salt would be Rv>extra sources of income. If it were not an economicaly insurmountable problem to prevent/control build ups of salt and other minerals, it would seem this would be the way to go. Especialy where salt water might be more economicaly obtained than fresh water or water low in minerals. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1090) Sun 18 Dec 94 14:14 By: Gale Barrows To: "Marvin G. Beshirs" Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <1976.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> "G>I am not trying to put the other gentlemen down, but it did get me to "G>thinking. At a previous address, the house had a wood stove in the "G>front room that we used for heating our house as opposed to using the "G>electric heat. To keep from having to buy so much wood, we got this "G>tool "G>that we put some water in, put newspaper in, rolled it up and let it "G>dry. Presto, a log that has been recycled. Theser were a bit easier to "G>start than a regular log but did last quite a while. I am not putting "G>down recycling paper by other means, but under some circumstances I "G>suppose this might be okay. My former residence was also heated primarily with wood. I used rolled up newspapers as fuel. I had a little machine that made it easier to roll them tightly. (a similar machine is available from Northern Hydraulics) After rolling I frequently set them in a pan of used motor oil and let them soak up the oil after which I put the rolls in another pan to let the excess oil drip out. The "logs" made great fuel, gave better heat and easier lighting than plain paper, and got rid of 50 or so gallons of old oil a month. I am in the proces of getting materials together for a new place and will be using these "logs" again to supplement a furnace run on used motor oil. There will also be a stoker/wood pellet furnace burning low grade corn or possibly even pelleted left overs from a distillery. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1091) Sun 18 Dec 94 14:22 By: Gale Barrows To: Jeff Peterson Re: Re: Solar power for laptop? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <2014.usenet@merckx.graphics.cornell.edu> JP>The battery on my pentium laptop lasts about one hour. This simply will JP>not JP>do when I return to the mountains of Guatemala (five miles from the JP>nearest JP>electrical outlet). Are there solar panels (backpackable) that would JP>work JP>for this? I want to buy it, not build it. Wouldn't a small gasoline fired generator be quicker and cheaper? More portable also. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1092) Sun 18 Dec 94 14:28 By: Gale Barrows To: James Jarrett Re: Here is an interesting problem to be solved. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: <3cllq1$jqa@jazzmin.vnet.net> JJ>This may not be the best place to post this, but here goes. This is about as close a place as possible as this echo was founded for helpig with home energy situations like yours rather than acres of wind mills etc.. JJ>Some months ago, my wife and I bought a hot tub. We bought it both for JJ>recreation and to help me treat my arthritis. We have since fallen in JJ>love JJ>with it and would rather pull teeth than part with it, but the electric JJ>bills to heat the beast are obscene!! JJ>First some background, the tub is a 300+- gallon 5 man tub. Truth is JJ>tho JJ>four is really the best you can get in it and it really works best with JJ>2. Would probably hold many more if you were all very "friendly" !!!! JJ>I am now looking for ways to further lower what it costs to heat this JJ>thing. JJ>I know that when the room is fully insulated (and maybe heated) it will JJ>be JJ>better but.... JJ>I was wondering if there are any companies that offer replacement or JJ>supp- JJ>lemental heaters for hot tubs that run on propane gas? (We don't get JJ>nat gas yet) I know there are a few heaters that use wood, but that JJ>requires a fire be built and the water allowed to warm, I usually like JJ>to soak a while just after I get up and when I get home from work. I have been involved in instaling several hot tubs on the cheap. The ususal instalation is a redwood livestock watering tank of the appropriate size with livestock tank heaters as normaly used to prevent freezing in very severe cold weather. Most instalations have been with wood heaters but some have used propane heaters. These heaters are regular items as sold at farm supply stores. The heaters fit right in the water but could be riged with an outside the tub tank just big enough to hold the heater with enough water around the heater to absorb the heat. The heated water could then be circulated with a pump or by gravity flow into the main tank. If the heater was in the main tank a metal guard could easily and cheaply be made to keep you from getting against the heated heater. You might look at the possibility of improving the insulation around the tank itself also. Many farm supply stores also offer insulating blankets to put around the outside of stock tanks and one of these might be used for your application. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1093) Sun 18 Dec 94 14:47 By: Gale Barrows To: Dave Zingg Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:212/1006.0 2eee27ee IW> Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 IW> pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 IW> S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. IW> The back issues of HP are well worth owning, IMO, providing a IW> liberal education on the subject. DZ> I'm getting a bit overloaded on magazines. I wonder if HP would DZ>consider DZ> putting one or more year's of back issues on a cd-rom? Or did I hear DZ>Don DZ> mention something like this a few months back? Don has such a C/D that he sells for under $30. (don't you love that phrase !! why dont they just say $29.99 ?????? ) In fact, that is one of the prime reasons I am planning a computer up grade so I can get a CD reader !!! I wonder when Don will be back up ? Last time I talked to him he only figured his shop and BBS would be shut down for 2-3 days due to his move. I miss him !!! It has been over 2 weeks now. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1094) Mon 19 Dec 94 19:16 By: Gale Barrows To: all Re: alky conversions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- What is required equipment for conversion to use 85% alcohol motor fuel? How high must the compresion be in the engine. I have a couple engines in vehicles that are used localy that I would consider changing over but i don't know if they would work well. One is a 230" flathead 6 with 6.5:1 compression. the other is a 602 " overhead 6 with 6:1 compression (5 3/8" stroke, 4 7/8" bore). Other engines that might be considered are a 1982 Chevy 3/4 ton with a 305" V8 at 8:1 compression and a 1991 Chevy Blazer with 350" V8 and 8.5:1 compression. All are carbureted except the Blazer which is injected. I know the jets on the carbureted engines could be hogged out but could a reprogrammed chip be used in the Blazer to up the amount of fuel injected? --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1098) Tue 20 Dec 94 20:35 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Mike Hipp Re: Re: Solar and/or wind based energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MH> energy. Is solar more efficient than a windmill? Does it depend on MH> geographic locations? Which costs more to initially set up and which would MH> more efficient? I have heard that they now make solar panels which require MH> very little light, and even if it is cloudy that would still be light enoug Hi, some of this I'm not qualified to tackle, but the "efficiency" is less of a constraint than the just plain availability of the energy source; generally speaking, solar panels are maybe 10% efficient, but they work and are trouble free, get as many as you can afford, they don't let you down. On the other hand, if you should live in a perennial fog belt, this would be a not too good choice - see what I mean? There are reports now and then of new tech panels, or films, or whatever, maybe they'll work, who knows? Wait til they've been out a while and people know more about them; Water power, micro-hydro, is great for the winters when the sun doesn't shine much providing you've got lotsa water or lotsa drop from source to site. The all time best suggestion I can give you is to get a subscription to Home Power magazine; these folks are straight and have just the sort of info you need to get started; lots of back issues with articles that can acquaint you with the nitty gritty of it. Call them at 916-475-3179 or write to P.O.Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1108) Mon 19 Dec 94 1:03 By: Bob Roach To: Angela Burns Re: Divert Dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:271/270 94276922 AB> On propellers they mostly have what's called "Hot Props" which are EH> resistance heating elements which prevent ice forming. This is a well EH> known and mature technology for propellers and other rotating airfoils. EH> There are also instances of WET props which have anti icing sprays EH> afixed to spray anti-freeze onto the blades. That might be the best EH> approach on windmachines. Since the windmachine is permanently anchored to one spot, the anti-freeze approach doesn't sound very appealing to me, unless the anti-freeze is biodegradable. The idea of trying to heat something in an icy wind makes me wonder how much energy we'd lose. Not as much as stopping, the blade I guess. ... User Error: Replace user and hit any key to continue... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1115) Wed 21 Dec 94 10:15 By: Lawrence London To: Gale Barrows Re: Sense of humour St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 b18a1be7 @PID: FM 2.02 > "R>From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" > "R>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 16:59:48 GMT [text deleted] > First, I don't even know if you will get this message as I am not > on internet but work Fido net which is the origin and home of this > echo. Next, what is a "list owner"? Is it something like a Fido > moderator as Don Kuhla is for this echo ? He won't get your reply. Gating of HOMEPOWR into the Internet via the Usenet newsgroup alt.energy.renewable has been discontinued by the two systems (12 miles away from me in Durham, NC) providing the service. Both were having hardware and software problems which caused intermittent traffic flow, dupes and articles with garbled headers causing yet more dupes. Maybe someone else will be interested in providing the gating. Lawrence 1:3641/1.502 london@sunSITE.unc.edu --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1116) Tue 20 Dec 94 1:54 By: Kevin Benton To: Mike Hipp Re: Solar and/or wind based energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:157/516.0 ef66eed7 @REPLY: 1:2613/310 2EF49C76 Mike Hipp wrote in a message to All: MH> Hi, I am a first time user of any BBS, so I hope this works. MH> My question is about self produced energy. In my "dream" MH> home I would like to produce my own energy. Is solar more MH> efficient than a windmill? Does it depend on geographic MH> locations? Which costs more to initially set up and which MH> would be more efficient? I have heard that they now make MH> solar panels which require very little light, and even if it MH> is cloudy that would still be light enough. What type of MH> laws regulate the utility companies and obligate them to buy MH> back surplus energy produced? And finally, is there any MH> form of self-contained energy that I am not aware of? I MH> thank you for your response. * SPITFIRE v3.4 In making a decision about solar or wind, you must look at many things. The first two would of course be the average daily windspeed and average light available at the points you intend to mount your "generators." If you intend to use a wind turbine, being in a valley can be bad news unless you expect to go very high with a tower to get your turbine into reliable wind. On solar, you need to look at placement away from overhead obstructions, etc. Also, in both cases, you'll need power storage capability and conversion from DC to AC. If you want to sell back to the power company, it gets expensive to buy good trace inverters which will produce AC that's seen as "high enough quality" to put back into the grid. If you do go this route, you no longer need a battery. The electric grid becomes your battery, unless there is a power failure on a calm night :-) Kevin --- timEd-B9 * Origin: Project Thunder Coshocton,OH(614)622-9026;v32b/v42b (1:157/516) @PATH: 157/516 534 110 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1135) Mon 19 Dec 94 7:48 By: Vic Dura To: James Jarrett Re: HERE IS AN INTERESTING PR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3670/10@fidonet.org a70f61e1 JJ> I am now looking for ways to further lower what it costs to JJ> heat this thing. I know that when the room is fully JJ> insulated (and maybe heated) it will be better but.... I used to have a hot tub of the same size when I lived in Calif. I think the optimal solution would be a solar heater panel on the roof. A tub that size only needs one panel. With the insulation you describe, if you use the tub after noon and before midnight, you probably will be able to supply all the heat (on most days) from the panel. I assume that you live in the S.E. Regards, Vic Dura (victor.dura@woodybbs.com) Rogersville, AL --- * RM 1.3 01752 * The problem is the People. --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0087 * Origin: Data Stream BBS 205-232-2400 28.8K Athens,Ala (1:3670/10) @PATH: 3670/10 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1139) Sat 17 Dec 94 8:13 By: Dick Dillman To: Dave Zingg Re: Re: EFFECTS OF WINDMILL BLAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I've heard that the Cessna Centurion has an inflatable surface > along the > leading edge of the wing that repeatedly inflates and deflates to > prevent > ice buildup. I haven't ever seen one first hand nor do I know how > well it > would work for your application. De-icing via inflatable cuffs on the leading edge of the wings and tail surfaces of aircraft are common to many models and go back quite a ways. Take a look at the next DC-3 you see and you'll find 'em. Other de-icing methods I know about include the "wet wing" in which glycol is expressed through tiny holes along the leading edge and, I think, hot bleed air. This last would be limited to turbine powered aircraft. Don't know if any of this would have application for a wind turbine. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Environet, the Greenpeace BBS - San Francisco, CA (1:125/21) @PATH: 125/21 260 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1140) Sat 17 Dec 94 1:00 By: Mark Whitaker To: Arlo Hagler Re: HELLO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Arlo Hagler to Mark Whitaker <=- AH> Hi Mark! Good to hear from you. Let's keep in touch. Curious to hear AH> about the lighting business, etc. Internet address is; AH> ArloHag@f53.n125.z1.fidonet.org. Peace, etc. I'll reply in this echo for now since I can't fit your internet address into the TO: slot on my reader. My internet address is mark.whitaker@homepower.org; maybe if you send me mail there I can reply to it. Anyway, the lighting biz has gone nowhere really. I posted several messages on HP BBS trying to get feedback on what people want in off-grid light fixtures, but heard not a word. I sent a sample fixture that I made to AEE, but they weren't really interested either. That was a 120vac fixture. Anyway, I had other stuff to do for awhile, (like tear off and re-roof my house!) so I let the lighting thing slide. I finished my PV system this fall too, and got a dealership from AEE. Unfortun- ately, its pretty hard to sell PV systems to grid connected people in the city so that isn't going anywhere in a big hurry either. So, I have actually been thinking about light fixtures again. Especially since we may end up living in So Humboldt and I won't keep the AEE dealership if we do that. We're hoping to sell our house here in the spring and come down to so humbodlt for the summer and work reggae again. If things click and we can find some land in a community that we can afford, then we'll probably stay. We've been loking for similar communities in Oregon, but haven't found anything really. Anyway, that's the scoop. If I had some input, I might do a few fixtures. Do you have occasion to help sell some fixtures? I can do 12v or 120v, halogen, fluor- escent, what have you. I would make them from brass parts; the fluorescents would be a little expensive ($60-75 or so) but I think I could do some MR16 halogen thing pretty cheap ($25-35 or so). well, I should go; I've been trying to run the computer solely off the PV system, and it's been raining for DAYS. later love and peace mark --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1141) Mon 19 Dec 94 14:36 By: Michael Welch To: Tom Porter Re: GREENPEACE TRAILER ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TP>Hi Michael - If you get the 'list', we'd be interested too... us a bit about the Redwood Alliance? Interested as we're new to the echo and >more, or less, right in your back yard> Thanks. RE: Cyrus, check out Tom's message about Greenpeace cutbacks. Hey everybody, Greenpeace is a great organization and the Cyrus is a great resource. How about sending them a check and the suggestion they put it back on the road! For those of you that don't know, Redwood Alliance is an environmental organization that works on grass-roots energy issues. We focus mostly on small scale, decentralized energy production, and operate the Home Power BBS (707)822-8640. We started out as an anti-nuclear group in 1978, and successfully fought the reopening of the Humboldt Bay nuke plant. We got tired of being purely "anti" so we've branched out into this new exciting area. I am the office coordinator for Redwood Alliance, and also work part-time writing and editing for Home Power Magazine. Current projects include: two p-v demonstration centers and a project for obtaining photovoltaic installations via rate-based incentives (see Home Power #44 pages 20 & 71). --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1142) Mon 19 Dec 94 9:18 By: Michael Welch To: Dave Paxton Re: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DP>Is Consul made in USA or an import? If at all possible I would like to buy U >but if I can't find any will have to go with an import. Thought I answered that one: South America. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1143) Mon 19 Dec 94 13:38 By: Michael Welch To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MS>MW> Hi Dick, I'm beginning to wonder if my HOMEPOWR Fidonet messages are goi >MW> out. Please let me know if you (or anyone else) are seeing messages com >MW> out of the Home Power BBS. they're getting down here to Garberville's >REDNET, 'course we get ours from Eureka, so it could be a hangup (so to spe >down the line, , , Thanks Malcolm & everyone else. I discovered a little glitch in our setup, but is seems that mostly the problem is timing. These messages can take quite awhile to get from here to there. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1144) Mon 19 Dec 94 13:48 By: Michael Welch To: Dave Zingg Re: PEDDLE POWER? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DZ> I'm getting a bit overloaded on magazines. I wonder if HP would consider > putting one or more year's of back issues on a cd-rom? Or did I hear Don > mention something like this a few months back? Don's communication on this echo is spotty these days, so I'll try to answer on his behalf here. He was planning on redoing and re-releasing his solar cdrom eventually, or so he told me. But I don't think it would be worth it for anyone to try to do a new cdrom based on just 1 or 2 year's back issues of HP. What I recomment you do, is download the index from our BBS, and then make quick calls to get specific articles you need. The files are all zipped and download very fast. Plus, most of the files are in better shape than on the CD because when I originally did them, I didn't know as much as I do now about both graphics and mac to plain text translations. Don's cd has our older versions of the files. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1145) Mon 19 Dec 94 13:51 By: Michael Welch To: Dave Zingg Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DZ>I'm not too crazy about the internet stuff in the echo. It seems that their >messages are much longer and have less content. The duplicates don't help mu I too have mixed feelings. It seems like it was much more usable and readable before. I have one related request for everyone, specially those coming in through internet newsgroups - PLEASE BE GENTLE ON THE QUOTING. There often is a tendancy to over-quote. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1146) Mon 19 Dec 94 14:21 By: Michael Welch To: Ian Woofenden Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IW>What advantage(s) do these have over skylights (of which I am an advocate)? Less heat loss, easier to weather seal, can pipe through longer spaces (like tall attic areas), less construction costs. They're most appropriate where it is hard to put skylights and windows. I saw these units both at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair and at SEER, and I like them. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1193) Fri 16 Dec 94 11:15 By: Dave Paxton To: Michael Welch Re: RE: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 877B3FE1 MW>I'm pretty sure consul is still available. As a matter of fact, last year I MW>saw a model almost identical to my own 10 yr old model, which works great! I have seen gas refers that were 30 to 50 years that were still going strong. I remember one that was OLD that was a kerosine refer. MW> > POSSIBLE I would rather buy american but if MW> > not MW> > I will have to buy "exotics". MW>At the risk of starting an off-topic of discussion, here, I think you should MW>give a little more thought to that subject. What makes you think they don't MW>need more jobs in other countries? They probably "need" them more than we d MW>Sorry, I just had to respond. The formost reason is that if the world economy goes bust you may have no source for parts or even information on the product. If made in this country the possibility of getting parts and info is increased greatly. Secondly, I personaly feel that too many products that come from other countries are produced with unfare advantages and not on an even competiton playing field. I have heard but have no proof of manufactured items from china, tiawan, korea, and other countries being produced with state prisoner labor. The manufacturers get a boost of cheap labor and the gov't gets a boost in recieving funds to help pay for the keep of the prisoners. But the US manufacturers have to compete with the lower prices of the import product. Now I know were off topic. The first reply about cascadeing world financial colapse was on topic but this is getting into politics. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * Women, can't live with'em... end of story. --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-452-5227 (1:369/3.0) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/52 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1194) Sun 18 Dec 94 21:02 By: Bill Basford To: Jim Bilderback Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:325/802.0 2ef4e998 On (30 Nov 94) Jim Bilderback wrote to All... JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle JB> and not sweat too much? IW>Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 IW>pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 IW>S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. Jim, I missed your original message, but I looked into pedal power several years ago and even collected some of the needed parts, although I never got the whole contraption built. If I remember correctly, I calculated that one hour of pedalling should run a typical color TV for about 30 minutes. Working from information in the ASHRAE guidebooks, a typical college athlete should be able to peddle at about 300 watts for an hour or more. A typical middle aged male in reasonable condition should be able to produce 100 watts for the 30 or so minutes required for a good aerobic workout. Of course this works best if you can adjust the seat, handlebars, etc. to the same positions used for racing bicycles, and to make the pedalling action resemble a real bicycle, you will need some type of flywheel to get the pedals past the top and bottom positions. The alternator from a typical small sedan should work well, along with the basic parts of an auto electrical system, including the battery, voltage regulator, etc. To get reasonably efficient power generation, you will need to gear up the alternator speed to 2000 RPM or more, while maintaining a reasonable pedal speed, which is usually between 60 and 100 RPM if I remember correctly. That means you will need a "gear ratio" somewhere around 28 to 1. To do this with rubber V belts, you will probably need to use an intermediate shaft and two sets of belts and pulleys. According to a lecture I once heard at the Univ. of Maine, to get good workouts without risking a sudden heart attack, you should pedal with moderate effort for the first twenty minutes of each workout, then pedal hard for most of the remainder of the workout, and then pedal easy for the last five minutes or so. And don't forget, the typical couch potato (did you mean yourself?) should consult with a doctor before indulging in vigorous workouts on a pedal machine. Au Revoir ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X About 20% of land in most cities is taken up for cars. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Wormhole II * 802-626-8809 * Lyndonville, VT (1:325/802) @PATH: 325/802 805 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1195) Sat 17 Dec 94 12:10 By: Ian Woofenden To: Dave Zingg Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 70b275db @REPLY: 1:212/1006.0 2eee27ee On (13 Dec 94) Dave Zingg wrote to Ian Woofenden... IW> The back issues of HP are well worth owning, IMO, providing a IW> liberal education on the subject. DZ> I'm getting a bit overloaded on magazines. I wonder if HP DZ> would consider putting one or more year's of back issues on a DZ> cd-rom? Or did I hear Don mention something like this a few DZ> months back? Yep. Sonoma Online POB 7518, Santa Rosa, CA 95407 has a CD Rom that includes the first 35 issues, as well as a bunch of other stuff (250 Mb). It's $29 ppd. Ian ... When marriage is outlawed only outlaws will have in-laws. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1202) Tue 20 Dec 94 11:45 By: Michael Welch To: All Re: GREAT JOB OPPORTUNITY ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was from MICHAEL WELCH to ALL, and was forwarded to you by MICHAEL WELCH. ------------------------- I just heard of a wonderful job opportunity for the right person. This ad is to be published in the next "Get a Job" section of Home Power Magazine, but you can get a jump on it. Job description: MAINTENANCE MANAGER CARIBBEAN ECO-RESORT Hands-on problem solver with ability to teach and manage others. Knowledge of alternate energy systems, sewage treatment, refrigeration, auto mechanics, etc. a plus. Working couple OK. Resume and letter to: Maho Bay - NY Office, 17 E 73 St., NYC, NY 10021 ------------------------------------ From what I hear, they need to fill this position right away, so don't hesitate. I hear that room and board at this resort is free which means you can bank your pay. Pay includes profit-sharing, use of a vehicle and a good salary. Above was the ad they faxed me, but they said you could also call or e-mail them, probably because they are in a hurry to fill the position. Call Lisa Kaplowitz at 1-800-392-9004 or e-mail mahobay@igc.apc.org --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1203) Tue 20 Dec 94 14:30 By: Michael Welch To: All Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Û Ö· ÖÄ Ö· Ö· Ö· Ö· Ö· Ö· Ö· ÖÄ ÖÄ ÖÒ· Ò Ö· Ö· Ö·  ÛÛÛ Ó· Ç Ç¶ Ó· ºº ºº Ó· º · ǽ Ç Ç º º ºº º· Ó·  ÛÛÛÛÛ Ó½ ÓÄ ½Ó Ó½ Ó½ ½Ó Ó½ Ó ½ ½Ó ÓÄ ÓÄ Ð Ð ½Ó Ó½ Ó½  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ Ö·  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ×Ä Ö· Ö· ÖÒ ·  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  Ó Ó Ó½ ÓÓÓ  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ Ö· Ö· Ö· Ö· ÖÒ· Ö· Ö· Ö·  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ Ƕ ǽ º Ƕ º Ƕ º Ƕ  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ½Ó ½Ó Ó½ ½Ó Ð ½Ó Ó½ ½Ó  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ home of the  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛ ·Ö Ö· ÖÒ· ÖÄ Ö· Ö· · Ö ÖÄ Ö·  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ Ƕ ºº ºÐº Ç Ç½ ºº ºÒº Ç Ç½  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ½Ó Ó½ ½ Ð ÓÄ ½ Ó½ Óн ÓÄ ½Ó  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ±[ 40mÛÛ ±ÛÛ ±ÛÛ ±[ 35mÛÛ ±ÛÛ  ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ±[ 40mÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  (707)822-7884ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ Thanks for your ±ÛÛ ±ÛÛ [31 m±ÛÛ ±ÛÛ ±ÛÛ  n-8-1 ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ support o ver the years. ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ Û ±ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ  --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1204) Tue 20 Dec 94 18:02 By: John Stanley To: Ian Woofenden Re: WHISPER 1000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IW>How long have you had your Whisper, John? Are you happy with it? I have a Whisper 1000 (not installed by me) and it is a great little unit. Mine is mounted on an 84' tilt-up tower about a quarter mile from the house where it has clear wind in all directions. It sends 240v wild three phase ac to the house through 10ga wire into a large transformer that steps it down to 24v. We burnt two of those transformers to a crisp at no charge to us before they shipped us one that was much beefier. The only other problem was with the first set of wooden blades: they were really noisy. Again, at no cost to us, they were replaced, and now it lives up to the Whisper moniker. I like the product so much that I plan on adding a Whisper 3000 on a 120' tilt-up tower. John (jstanley@solar.win.net) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1205) Tue 20 Dec 94 18:05 By: John Stanley To: Michael Davis Re: TRACE INVERTER COLD FEET ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [WRT my unused dud Ni-Cd batteries] MD>Would you like to sell those Ni-Cads? Remember to make it cheap. I plan on using them in an outbuilding, so unless you'd like to give me $2500 for 'em [half price], they're not for sale. John (jstanley@solar.win.net) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1209) Thu 22 Dec 94 5:30 By: Michael Davis To: Mike Hipp Re: Solar And/or Wind Based E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:207/225@fidonet.org a5107e30 MH>Is solar more efficient than a windmill? Depends on where you are at, if you have sunlight solar works, if you have wind then a windmill works. As far as most efficient they both cost about the same when you work in initial costs. MH>Does it depend on geographic locations? Yes it does a lot. On top of a hill you are going to get a lot of sun and wind, in a valley you will get less. MH>Which costs more to initially set up and which would be more efficient? Again both cost about the same for the initial setup. A efficient setup would have both systems built in. Normally when the sun shines you have little wind, and when the wind blows you have little sun. By using both you will be able to get power `most' of the time. MH>What type of laws regulate the utility companies and obligate them MH>to buy back surplus energy produced? The federal law is still on the books that require utilities to purchase the energy, but it only requires advoided costs, which most say is the cost for the fuel needed to produce the energy. Only if you have a steady large surplus of power does in become worthwhile to sell it to the utility, beware the costs involved in getting setup to sell. MH>is there any form of self-contained energy that I am not aware of? A few, how about hydro. Its clean, easy and cheap. And you get power 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. With as little as a 100 watts output at the generator you get 2.4KWhrs a day of energy, get 500 watts output and you have got 12KWhrs of power. It is a simple steady source of power. How about geo-thermal. Bio-gas(run a engine). Wood(Steam power). Corn(Alcohol). etc. All of the above methods are in use today to produce self-contained power. Mike ___ * MR/2 2.09A NR * Hire teenagers while they still know everything. --- QScan v1.131b / 01-0417 * Origin: Prime Connection - Riverside,CA - 909.274.9637*USR/DS (1:207/225) @PATH: 207/225 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1229) Thu 22 Dec 94 17:16 By: Mike Hipp To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Solar and/or wind based e ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2613/310 2EF9FCC6 Hi, I am very excited that my message worked and someone took the time to answer it, I thank you. I guess I should consider other areas of the country to relocate to when I am in a position to do something like this. I live in cold, Rochester NY and although it's "home" I've always thought of relocating to possibly a Southeastern state like Georgia. Actually, Rochester is right up there on the list of one of the LEAST sunniest places in the country, although we do get some pretty decent winds off of Lake Ontario.(You can't eat the fish because of pollution, so fishing is no good.) It's a no win situation either way. Being that I am relatively young(22), I have often thought of saving enough money to move before I have any real roots in anywhere. In the house that I live in now, we have a florida room that does a great job of heating the house when the sun does shine. But, at night it is the coldest room in the house. I think once spring comes I am going to attempt a small project in the backyard to try and understand some of the principles of energy conversion. We have a small pond with a stream running through it. Nothing even remotely close to powerful, but I'd like to attempt some kind of watermill(?) to see if I can run a small radio or something like that. Any suggestions? I also noticed your BBS is named Board of Occult. Is that occult as in supernatural? I hapen to be active in Spiritualism and other forms of paranormal investigation\study. Is this an interest of yours? I hope I have found an online comrade to correspond with. I eagerly await your reply! Happy Holidays Mike H. * SPITFIRE v3.4 --- Alexi/Mail 2.00 (#117) * Origin: Maritime Discovery Center, Rochester NY, 716-581-0328 (1:2613/310) @PATH: 2613/310 5 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1232) Sun 18 Dec 94 12:19 By: Chris Clark To: All Re: alternate light source ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2340/70.0 877D140A @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 93-0278 has anyone out there had any experience with electroluminescent panels? i just picked one us surplus to play with. lady said it'd light on 110vac. i put a line cord on it, and sure enough, it glows. kinda blue-green. played around with it a bit, and it seems to work at various ac voltages. (tried as low as 24vac) I'd like to find out more about it's intended operation, as well as some numbers on efficiency. it seems like it's pretty good, as it remains quite cool for the light it puts out. no gas to ionize, so it'll probably not mind the cold. i'll havta check that theory out, though. see ya -chris ... Catch the Blue Wave! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: The Gateway BBS (1:2340/70.0) @PATH: 2340/70 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1234) Thu 22 Dec 94 22:33 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Gale Barrows Re: Re: Alcohol as Fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GB> Water injection is nothing new for gasoline engine use. It has been around GB> since the 1920's in cars and farm tractors. The term is possibly a misnomer GB> water is simply sprayed in a mist form into the airstream as it passes thro GB> the carburetor or intake manifold. the efect is as described above. It does GB> work, especialy with low grade gasoline. There is also a power gain and the GB> is less carbon build up in the cylinder heads. The system was even used in GB> fighter aircraft before they started going high enough that freezing was a GB> problem. Even then the system was used with an alcohol addition to prevent GB> freezing. I believe the systems can still be bought through such sources as GB> J.C. Whitney. Couple of things to note; too much water, and you get erosion of piston tops, valves, alloy heads. Buick used a water-alcohol injection in about '63 in their turbocharged aluminum v-8s, worked well as long as you kept the reservoir filled --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1235) Thu 22 Dec 94 22:45 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Arlo Hagler Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AH> Fossil and Nuclear? Since when? I thought we'd hashed that one out months a AH> Hey, Don! Hey Arlo; We continue to use fossil fuels, so what's wrong with trying to do it more efficiently, safely, etc. And, again; the fact that the government used nuclear technology poorly does not mean that anyone interested in exploring the topic is evil at worst or bound to doom us all with the same mistakes again. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1236) Thu 22 Dec 94 22:52 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Michael Welch Re: Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MW> Thanks Malcolm & everyone else. I discovered a little glitch in our MW> setup, but is seems that mostly the problem is timing. These messages MW> can take quite awhile to get from here to there. It's the glitches that get us \, every time. Wonder if you can help me with a question; The military is using "depleted" uranium in shells, possibly in small arms bullets, and I'm curious just what Depleted uranium might be. So far asI know there is no non-radioactive form of uranium, do you know someone who is informed on nuclear matters that could answer this point? --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1252) Thu 22 Dec 94 8:33 By: Andy Eng To: All Re: Lost heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval] @MSGID: 1:382/100.0 2ef99c23 Greetings All, We've just moved from the deep south where we would be out running around in shorts and T-shirts to the north up near Canada where it's a tad bit cooler outside. While puttering around in the basement, I noticed that the exhaust stacks for the gas fired water heater and furnace was pretty hot to the touch. My question is: Is there a practical way of inserting an in-line type of heat exchanger (air-to-air) to skim off a few more of the BTUs heading outside? Thanks to anybody who may have some knowledge with this. Andy ... Let it snow! --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Honey, time to wind up the rubberband... (1:382/100) @PATH: 382/100 10 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1256) Tue 20 Dec 94 19:55 By: Ian Woofenden To: Mike Hipp Re: Solar and/or wind based energy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 26d3730d @REPLY: 1:2613/310 2EF49C76 On (18 Dec 94) Mike Hipp wrote to All... MH> Hi, I am a first time user of any BBS, so I hope this works. Received here in the Pacific NW, no problem. You must be doing *something* right . MH> My question is about self produced energy. In my "dream" home MH> I would like to produce my own energy. You've come to the right place then. MH> Is solar more efficient than a windmill? I'm gonna get flack for this, and I stand by to be educated, but I'm not convinced that "efficiency" matters. To me the questions are: Are you getting what you want and can you afford to get it? MH> Does it depend on geographic locations? Definitely. Solar is much more universally applicable than wind. You really need a good site to make wind pay. MH> Which costs more to initially set up and which would be more MH> efficient? Well, let's see, you can get a 1KW windplant for about $1500, but then you need the tower and wiring and such, which *could* double that depending on your site. And 1 KW of PVs will run you around $7K. But generally, you'll get a *lot* more out of the PVs than the wind, again, depending on your site. Both together work very well in the right location. PVs are more modular, so you can buy one or two at a time as you can afford them. Beyond that, the battery and other systems costs are common to both sources. Unless you have a fabulous wind site, I think it usually makes sense to start with PV (or hydro, if you are lucky enough to have it) and branch out from there if desirable. MH> I have heard that they now make solar panels which require MH> very little light, and even if it is cloudy that would still MH> be light enough. I don't know about that. There's no free lunch. PVs generate by how much *light* there is. Full sun gives you full output. Half sun gives you half. My experience with them in low light (anything but *very* light cloud cover) is that they don't do very much. MH> What type of laws regulate the utility companies and obligate MH> them to buy back surplus energy produced? Not my department . Someone else answer that. From what I've heard, many utilities do not pay very high rates for the power they *buy* from individuals. Now when they sell, OTOH... MH> And finally, is there any form of self-contained energy that MH> I am not aware of? Hydro is #1 if you have enough water and enough head. If so, feel fortunate. Let's see, some folks are fooling with thermo-electric, but it doesn't sound very cost effective yet. And pedal power is working for very small systems. There are probably others, but not any that I can think of that have widespread application (you don't have a thermal geyser in your back yard, do you ?). MH> I thank you for your response. You are welcome. I'm just a user, running my house and shop on solar and wind. I really strongly recommend that you subscribe to _Home Power_ magazine and get the available back issues (many are still in print, all are on CD-ROM). That is a wonderful education, and is down to earth, with lots of stories of people actually *using* this stuff. Then find a dealer (local if possible) you can trust. If s/he won't answer all the questions you have, find another. More questions welcome. TTYL Ian ... So many alternative energy people either have never heard of the laws of thermodynamics or else they expect Congress to repeal them. - Don Lancaster --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1265) Wed 21 Dec 94 22:43 By: Larry Kessler To: Charles W Good Re: Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: BWMAX2 3.05d Beta [Reg] @MSGID: 1:106/31.0 2efa1cb1 You said to All on 14 Dec 94 18:22:54: CWG> With respect to gizmos that let you make newspaper logs, you don't CWG> need them. Just roll a bunch of papers up by hand, stick the roll CWG> between your knees, and tie with twine. When you throw these into CWG> your wood stove the twine burns off, but the newspapers don't CWG> immediately unfold and fly all over the place. The papers stay rolled CWG> up in the stove and burn slowly IF they have been sitting around tied CWG> up with twine for a couple of weeks. I have been burning newspaper CWG> logs this way in my stove for years. NEVER have these papers gone CWG> flaming up the flue and caused problems. What about the soot buildup from the ink in the newsprint? ... Brain damage? No thanks, I already have some. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: PIC of the MID Town OS/2 BBS (713) 961-5817 (1:106/31) @PATH: 106/31 993 888 116 170/400 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1274) Fri 23 Dec 94 19:51 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Michael Welch Re: Holiday greetings. NOT!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org cb9447e0 Thanks so much for the holiday greetings which TOTALLY screwed up my video system! If you MUST get creative and send such crap through Fido, at least have the decency to RE establish normal video after you've finished! It's taken me two soft resets and finally a hard reboot to get my monitor back to where I can read ANYTHING! Next time you feel the urge to do something similar....... DON'T! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1275) Fri 23 Dec 94 20:01 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Mike Hipp Re: Solar and/or wind based e ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org cb9447e1 -> Hi, I am very excited that my message worked and someone took the time to -> answer it, I thank you. Think nothing of it. Always willing to help. Unfortunately, where I live it's so flat that water doesn't RUN so I don't know a thing about hydro. Especially low-head hydro. Yes, my BBS used to be totally devoted to the Occult, but in the last five or six years most of my occult users have moved away or lost interest. Now we're more oriented toward Writing, and technical subjects. (And of course Fido.) ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1296) Fri 23 Dec 94 19:29 By: David Hatfield To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:203/9264@Fidonet 765e6ed2 MS>And, again; the fact that the MS>government used nuclear technology poorly does not mean that anyone MS>interested in exploring the topic is evil at worst or bound to doom us all MS>with the same mistakes again. The government wasn't the only one who made mistakes! There is a really good book out called "Nuclear Renewal". It's fairly easy reading and is only about 100 pages long. In it the author (I can't remember his name) chronicles the decline of the US nuclear industry. He also describes what others have done right. It is very interesting reading: historical, political and technical. Also, this month in "Energy and Environment" the lead essay is on the environmental benefits of nuclear power. I haven't read the article, yet, but when I do I will post a digest of it. By the way, is anyone interested in plans for a parabolic trough solar hot dog cooker? Might be a good Scout project. Grace and peace. Dave .... ... Unknown Error on Unknown Device for Unexplainable Reason. --- Ezycom V1.10g2 06fa0007 * Origin: YOUR BBS, Sacramento, ca 916-448-5840 (1:203/9264) @PATH: 203/9264 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1301) Fri 23 Dec 94 19:50 By: Gale Barrows To: Michael Welch Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RE Suntubes: IW>What advantage(s) do these have over skylights (of which I am an advocate)? MW>Less heat loss, easier to weather seal, can pipe through longer spaces MW>(like tall attic areas), less construction costs. MW>They're most appropriate where it is hard to put skylights and windows. MW>I saw these units both at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair and at MW>SEER, and I like them. What are these things? I get the impresion they are basicly a skylight/pipe cross. Are there any optics or are they just a tube witj glazing? What diameter do they run. Could they be home built using large diameter (12-18") plastic pipe? --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1302) Fri 23 Dec 94 20:19 By: John Luker To: Michael Welch Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:275/102@fidonet.org cc004080 MW>IW>What advantage(s) do these have over skylights (of which I am an advocate MW>Less heat loss, easier to weather seal, can pipe through longer spaces >(like tall attic areas), less construction costs. MW>They're most appropriate where it is hard to put skylights and windows. MW>I saw these units both at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair and at >SEER, and I like them. Michael, is someone selling suntubes? any more info?, I just caught the tail end of this conversation thanks John * OLX 2.1 TD * john.luker@sourcebbs.com Fido (1:275/102) Rime ->1369 --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff096/a] * Origin: SelectiveSourceVirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102) @PATH: 275/102 114 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1314) Fri 23 Dec 94 21:18 By: Gale Barrows To: Chris Clark Re: alternate light source ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:2340/70.0 877D140A CC>has anyone out there had any experience with electroluminescent panels? CC>i just picked one us surplus to play with. lady said it'd light on CC>110vac. CC>i put a line cord on it, and sure enough, it glows. kinda blue-green. CC>played around with it a bit, and it seems to work at various ac CC>voltages. CC>(tried as low as 24vac) I'd like to find out more about it's intended CC>operation, as well as some numbers on efficiency. CC>it seems like it's pretty good, as it remains quite cool for the light CC>it CC>puts out. no gas to ionize, so it'll probably not mind the cold. CC>i'll havta check that theory out, though. Could this be a similar decice to what Timex uses as a "night lite" on their Indiglow watches? --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1315) Fri 23 Dec 94 21:20 By: Gale Barrows To: Lawrence London Re: Sense of humour St: Rcvd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:3641/1.502 b18a1be7 > "R>From: "Clyde R. Visser, KD6GWN" > "R>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 16:59:48 GMT LL>[text deleted] > First, I don't even know if you will get this message as I am not > on internet but work Fido net which is the origin and home of this > echo. Next, what is a "list owner"? Is it something like a Fido > moderator as Don Kuhla is for this echo ? LL>He won't get your reply. Gating of HOMEPOWR into the Internet via the LL>Usenet newsgroup alt.energy.renewable has been discontinued by the two LL>systems (12 miles away from me in Durham, NC) providing the service. LL>Both were having hardware and software problems which caused LL>intermittent traffic flow, dupes and articles with garbled headers LL>causing yet more dupes. Maybe someone else will be interested in LL>providing the gating. Originaly I think, there was a gate in California that Don Kuhla had set up. Perhaps that is still operational. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1318) Fri 23 Dec 94 3:39 By: Kevin Benton To: Dave Zingg Re: Re: Effects of Windmill Blad ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:157/516.0 efa67020 Malcolm Stebbins wrote in a message to Dave Zingg: DZ> I've heard that the Cessna Centurion has an inflatable surface along the DZ> leading edge of the wing that repeatedly inflates and deflates to prevent DZ> ice buildup. I haven't ever seen one first hand nor do I know how well it MS> on wings, there are both heated and inflatable cuffs, as MS> well as anti-freeze drizzlers (buncha little holes along MS> leading edge) these are on many general aviation aircraft MS> as well as almost all commercial birds, doubt this is a MS> technology you want, tho it might sbe worth a try; seems MS> like the destruction of the airfoil shape is prob'ly MS> retarder enough to keep the thing from self destructing, Dave, on aircraft as Malcom stated, there are two basic types of propeller ice handling systems. One, is like a balloon and inflates to force the ice to break off the leading edge. The main problem with this sytem is if it is used too soon, the ice will break away partly and form a small cave where the boot can inflate into but will no longer have an effect on the ice. The other type of propeller system is called a slinger ring which "slings" alcohol onto the propeller surface. As the propeller spins, the alcohol travels outward on the prop, preventing the ice from forming, and if ice has formed, the alcohol changes the freezing point of the water and melts it. The problem with the slinger ring system is that it requires a constant supply of alcohol to keep the propeller clean when the system is in use. As far as windmills go, personally, I'd most likely go with a boot of some sort, and if I saw a large amount of ice on the prop, I'd activate the boot to break ice off. Any amount less than 1/4th of an inch may not break off easily and create problems. With this system all I would need to do is provide air. No alcohol needed. Kevin - CFI ASE, IA --- timEd-B9 * Origin: Project Thunder Coshocton,OH(614)622-9026;v32b/v42b (1:157/516) @PATH: 157/516 534 110 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1338) Fri 23 Dec 94 10:44 By: Dave Zingg To: Gale Barrows Re: Home Power CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:212/1006.0 2efaa9f2 Quoting Gale Barrows to Dave Zingg GB> Don has such a C/D that he sells for under $30. (don't you love that GB> phrase !! why dont they just say $29.99 ?????? ) In fact, that is one GB> of the prime reasons I am planning a computer up grade so I can get a GB> CD reader !!! I'm upgrading too. Trying to replace an old ESDI hd and controller with a new SCSI one ... haven't sorted everything out yet. GB> I wonder when Don will be back up ? Last time I talked to him he only GB> figured his shop and BBS would be shut down for 2-3 days due to his GB> move. I miss him !!! It has been over 2 weeks now. I love bbsing on fidonet, but it sure eats up time. Maybe Don is still so busy with the move that he just can't break loose with enough time to set everything back up? -- Dave ... Facts that do not conform to theory must be disposed of. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1339) Fri 23 Dec 94 10:54 By: Dave Zingg To: Michael Welch Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:212/1006.0 2efaac4c Quoting Michael Welch to Dave Zingg MW> But I don't think it would be worth it for anyone to try to do a new MW> cdrom based on just 1 or 2 year's back issues of HP. I wouldn't care how much other stuff is on the cd, I'd probably like that too. MW> What I recomment you do, is download the index from our BBS, and then MW> make quick calls to get specific articles you need. The files are all MW> zipped and download very fast. Plus, most of the files are in better MW> shape than on the CD because when I originally did them, I didn't know MW> as much as I do now about both graphics and mac to plain text MW> translations. Don's cd has our older versions of the files. Thanks for the tips and the implied invitation. I'll probably end up calling to dl the index. -- Dave ... What I really need is a Noise Supressor that works on my kids. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Beta BBS - Los Osos,CA - 805.528.6829 (1:212/1006) @PATH: 212/1006 1001 2001 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1358) Sun 25 Dec 94 5:22 By: Michael Davis To: Chris Clark Re: Alternate Light Source ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:207/225@fidonet.org 6ed0aba1 Hi, I have used them in a couple of applications. Aircraft, used to light up panels, holes drilled in them and circuit breakers and switches mounted (backed by sheet metal). Reverse silk screen, paint everything except what you want to light up. Status boards, mounted flat on a wall with a overlay covering them. Mike ___ * MR/2 2.09A NR * --- QScan v1.131b / 01-0417 * Origin: Prime Connection - Riverside,CA - 909.274.9637*USR/DS (1:207/225) @PATH: 207/225 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1359) Sun 25 Dec 94 5:22 By: Michael Davis To: Mike Hipp Re: Solar And/or Wind Based E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:207/225@fidonet.org 2a363941 H>principles of energy conversion. We have a small pond with a stream running MH>through it. Nothing even remotely close to powerful, but I'd like to attempt MH>some kind of watermill(?) to see if I can run a small radio or something like MH>that. Any suggestions? I also noticed your BBS is named Board of Occult. Hi, If conditions are right with that stream you have got one of the best sources of power. How much head and flow do you estimate you have? Head: The vertical distance from the surface of the water to the discharge point. Flow: Amount of water in gallons that pass a point in a second. With as little as 1 foot of head you can get usable power if you have the flow. Mike ___ * MR/2 2.09A NR * --- QScan v1.131b / 01-0417 * Origin: Prime Connection - Riverside,CA - 909.274.9637*USR/DS (1:207/225) @PATH: 207/225 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1367) Fri 23 Dec 94 22:11 By: Ian Woofenden To: Michael Welch Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 dc52a416 On (19 Dec 94) Michael Welch wrote to Ian Woofenden... IW> What advantage(s) do these have over skylights (of which I am IW> an advocate)? MW> Less heat loss, easier to weather seal, can pipe through MW> longer spaces (like tall attic areas), less construction MW> costs. MW> They're most appropriate where it is hard to put skylights MW> and windows. MW> I saw these units both at the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair MW> and at SEER, and I like them. OK, thanks for the feedback, Michael. I did get the literature from the number that was posted here, and the things look interesting to me. I'm already dreaming of trying one out here. I do love skylights for the natural light and the fact that you can see the sky. They come in handy for monitoring the wind generator too... BTW, the number posted was just for the distributor in MO. He was perfectly helpful, and would be happy to sell to anyone, but folks might also want to contact the manufacturer. The number on the brochure, out of Northbrook, IL is 800-844-4786. Ian ... In my back yard I have a set of mood swings. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1394) Sun 25 Dec 94 10:53 By: Ian Smith To: Michael Welch Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 3:711/431@fidonet f0a7e268 @PID: MaltEd 1.0.b5 MW>  MW>  Û Ö· ÖÄ Ö· Heh heh. After a gap of a few weeks, and a major reorganisation of international feeds, Australia is getting this echo again. Well, a few of us are. A cool Christmas day, it's only 82F after some rain, after some 100F days :) MW> @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 105/103 42 712/515 711/401 431 It's not so far when you look at it like that ... Cheers, Ian --- * Origin: Ansanet Development - Lismore, Far East Australia (3:711/431) @PATH: 711/431 401 712/515 105/42 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1409) Mon 26 Dec 94 13:53 By: Tom Porter To: Elvis Hargrove Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS. NOT!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks so much for the holiday greetings which TOTALLY screwed up my video > system! If you MUST get creative and send such crap through Fido, at least > have the decency to RE establish normal video after you've finished! > > It's taken me two soft resets and finally a hard reboot to get my > monitor back to where I can read ANYTHING! > > Next time you feel the urge to do something similar....... DON'T! I must of missed this message - what did it do to video? Curious, Tom --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hotel_California -<707>- 468-5076 (1:133/1499) @PATH: 133/1499 201 3656/120 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1410) Mon 26 Dec 94 13:55 By: Tom Porter To: Elvis Hargrove Re: SOLAR AND/OR WIND BASED E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, my BBS used to be totally devoted to the Occult, but in the > last five or six years most of my occult users have moved away or lost > interest. Now we're more oriented toward Writing, and technical subjects. > (And of course Fido.) So, are you going to change the name, since your not Occult oriented now? Tom --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Hotel_California -<707>- 468-5076 (1:133/1499) @PATH: 133/1499 201 3656/120 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1422) Sat 24 Dec 94 10:06 By: Ian Woofenden To: John Stanley Re: WHISPER 1000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 37f52ce2 On (20 Dec 94) John Stanley wrote to Ian Woofenden... JS> I have a Whisper 1000 (not installed by me) and it is a great JS> little unit. Wonderful. All reports make it sound great, and I'm getting anxious to get mine flying. Aiming to put some time into it right after Christmas, with dreams of power by the new year. I compared all the available machines on paper, and it seemed like the best buy for the size range I was looking at. And I love the fact that it is light weight, after putting our old Wincharger up (and down and up and down ). The Whisper is half the weight, but twice the output. Plus the fact that it does better in low winds - we're looking forward to not using the gen so much. JS> It sends 240v wild three phase ac to the house through 10ga JS> wire into a large transformer that steps it down to 24v. We JS> burnt two of those transformers to a crisp at no charge to us JS> before they shipped us one that was much beefier. What happened when the transformers burnt out? I thought these things couldn't run without a load without damaging the windings. That's what I did to my Wincharger. I have some concern about putting a fuse in the line (per the manual), since if it blows, I wonder if I'm risking the machine. OTOH, I don't know that much, so I'm going to ask a lot of questions of them that do before I do it. JS> The only other problem was with the first set of wooden JS> blades: they were really noisy. Again, at no cost to us, they JS> were replaced, and now it lives up to the Whisper moniker. I paid the extra dough for the composite blades. I saw what the turbulence and time and weather here can do to wood blades on the old machine. Plus, we're 1/2 mile from saltwater, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to go with the best. I think it will be money well spent if it saves trips up and down the tower to fix the prop. JS> I like the product so much that I plan on adding a Whisper JS> 3000 on a 120' tilt-up tower. Do you have a cumulative amp hour meter on your 1000 so you know what you're getting? I have one for our PVs and one for the wind machine, so it will be interesting to see how the Whisper compares with the years with the Wincharger. In general, I found that our 600 watts of PVs gave me about 8 to 10 times as much power as our 450 watts of Wincharger. *But* the wind comes through when we desperately need the power, so it's worth it to us. Do you also have PVs? I also dream of putting up a bigger machine, but I want to see what the 1000 will do first before investing that much time and $. A couple of years of metering should tell whether it would be better to put the money into PVs or more wind, or both. Thanks for the info, Ian ... "So simple, even a child prodigy can operate it." --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1423) Mon 26 Dec 94 15:29 By: Ian Woofenden To: John Luker Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 76c9e849 @REPLY: 1:275/102@fidonet.org cc004080 On (23 Dec 94) John Luker wrote to Michael Welch... JL> Michael, is someone selling suntubes? any more info?, I just JL> caught the tail end of this conversation The manufacturer is in Northbrook, IL at 800-844-4786 Someone also posted a dealer's name in MO at 417-276-3841. JL> * Origin: SelectiveSourceVirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 JL> (1:275/102) John, didn't you have some connection to Anacortes, WA? I seem to remember your name from a few years ago. Ian ... Free the bound periodicals! --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1424) Mon 26 Dec 94 15:59 By: Ian Woofenden To: Gale Barrows Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 a92e5f5b On (23 Dec 94) Gale Barrows wrote to Michael Welch... GB> What are these things? I get the impresion they are basicly a GB> skylight/pipe cross. Are there any optics or are they just a GB> tube witj glazing? What diameter do they run. Could they be GB> home built using large diameter (12-18") plastic pipe? According to SunPipe's literature, the key is the reflective pipe that they use. They say that two other manufacturers use less reflective pipe, and smaller diameters, with significantly inferior results. Theirs are 13" and 21". They say you can run them up to at least 12'. They also have an optional scoop that you can put on top to reflect more light in. *Sounds* neat. I'll let you know if I ever put one in. Ian ... People say I'm apathetic, but I don't care. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1425) Mon 26 Dec 94 16:05 By: Ian Woofenden To: Chris Clark Re: alternate light source ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 88afe5fe @REPLY: 1:2340/70.0 877D140A On (18 Dec 94) Chris Clark wrote to All... CC> has anyone out there had any experience with CC> electroluminescent panels? What exactly *are* these, and how do they work? Out here in the Pacific NW, we enjoy seeing *bio*luminescence in the salt water. Looks pretty wild when you're running an outboard through it at night! I've never tried to tap it as a light source, but the kids have brought water home in a bucket and stirred it up with an egg beater. Now *that* would be an alternative energy source ... CC> i just picked one us surplus to play with. lady said it'd CC> light on 110vac. i put a line cord on it, and sure enough, it CC> glows. kinda blue-green. played around with it a bit, and it CC> seems to work at various ac voltages. (tried as low as 24vac) CC> I'd like to find out more about it's intended operation, as CC> well as some numbers on efficiency. Where did you get it, and at what cost? And what is the proposed purpose of these things? Ian ... OPERATOR! Trace this call and tell me where I am. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1426) Fri 23 Dec 94 22:23 By: Arlo Hagler To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MS: "Hey Arlo; We continue to use fossil fuels, so what's wrong with trying to do it more efficiently, safely, etc. And, again; the fact that the government used nuclear technology poorly does not mean that anyone interested in exploring the topic is evil at worst or bound to doom us all with the same mistakes again." Currently we use fossil fuels. It is our ambition to replace these with renewable sources. Until then I view fossil fuels as a necessary evil. I can see discussing genset backups, but I agree with John Gofman, MD, that no safe use of nuclear fission is possible. Cold fusion may be different (I'm still waiting to see some info here on that), but what I've read so far does not convince me of its viability, at least at present. That could change any time, though... I was responding to Gale's (?) assertion that we could use nuclear fuel from Russion subs. That does not sound like cold fusion. It sounds like fission as usual. Happy Holidays. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1427) Sat 24 Dec 94 12:41 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: Arlo Hagler Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AH> Currently we use fossil fuels. It is our ambition to replace these with AH> renewable sources. Until then I view fossil fuels as a necessary evil. I ca AH> see discussing genset backups, but I agree with John Gofman, MD, that no sa AH> use of nuclear fission is possible. Cold fusion may be different (I'm still AH> waiting to see some info here on that), but what I've read so far does not AH> convince me of its viability, at least at present. That could change any ti AH> though... AH> I was responding to Gale's (?) assertion that we could use nuclear fuel fro AH> Russion subs. That does not sound like cold fusion. It sounds like fission AH> usual. Happy Holidays. I think he was yanking on someones lower extremity. Anyhow, I'd prefer to saee both topics discussed openly; If we're going to learn anything new about e.g. cold fusion, it's going to be us that does it - or maybe the Japanese - cuz the hotshot nuclear honcho, Huizenga put his rep on the line five years ago and bad rapped cold fusion unmercifully. It is now U.S. Pat off. policy (until mid 94, it turns out )to Not grant patents on any - that's ANY - cold fusion work - great climate for research investment, doncha know. You are simply adding to the problem if you blanket reject research in this or other fields. Cold Fusion Magazine can be reached for subscription and other info at 70 Rt. 202 North, Peterborough, NH 03458. It's expensive, not making it financially cuz of the attitudes expressed as above, he's down to news letter format. Sooo, if you're truly interested I'llloan you the first few issues upon deposit of y9ou right arm and access to you bank account - or other security - (just kidding). --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1428) Sun 25 Dec 94 0:31 By: Arlo Hagler To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: cold fusion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MS "... Cold Fusion Magazine can be reached for subscription and other info at 70 Rt. 202 North, Peterborough, NH 03458. It's expensive, not making it financially cuz of the attitudes expressed as above, he's down to news letter format. " It seems to me that the Borderlands BBS would also be interested in this. --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1429) Mon 26 Dec 94 11:46 By: Malcolm Stebbins To: David Hatfield Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DH> Also, this month in "Energy and Environment" the lead essay is on the DH> environmental benefits of nuclear power. I haven't read the article, yet, DH> when I do I will post a digest of it. DH> Thanks, Dave - I'd appreciate it! Malcolm Stebbins --- Renegade v10-05 Exp * Origin: In The Heart Of The Redwoods -Redwood Network- (1:125/53) @PATH: 125/53 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1443) Sun 25 Dec 94 10:53 By: Ian Smith To: Michael Welch Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- MW>  MW>  Û Ö· ÖÄ Ö· Heh heh. After a gap of a few weeks, and a major reorganisation of international feeds, Australia is getting this echo again. Well, a few of us are. A cool Christmas day, it's only 82F after some rain, after some 100F days :) MW> @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 105/103 42 712/515 711/401 431 It's not so far when you look at it like that ... Cheers, Ian * Origin: Ansanet Development - Lismore, Far East Australia (3:711/431) --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: Peachy Keeno Inn BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190) @PATH: 138/190 1 103 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1474) Sun 25 Dec 94 20:22 By: Geoff Moist To: All Re: Home Power Mag. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2612/114.0 8787006A @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 94-0019 Can someone please give me the address for subscribing to Home Power Magazine, and the cost? Thanks alot. --- * OLX 2.1 TD * Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: Hafa Adai Exchange, Great Mills MD 301-994-9460/62 (1:2612/114.0) @PATH: 2612/114 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1483) Wed 28 Dec 94 23:25 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Tom Porter Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS. NOT!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org ce179640 -> I must of missed this message - what did it do to video? Curious, Tom Turned ALL the attributes off, apparently. That's the SPECIFIC reason high ASCII characters are outlawed in Fido. There's no telling what improper MODE instructions might do to a mail handling system. Anything from formatting the hard drive to just fouling up the display....... ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1484) Wed 28 Dec 94 23:25 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Tom Porter Re: SOLAR AND/OR WIND BASED E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org ce179641 -> So, are you going to change the name, since your not Occult oriented now? -> Tom Haven't felt the urge to. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1490) Wed 28 Dec 94 9:15 By: David Hatfield To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:203/9264@Fidonet 767127cf Hi Malcolm- I'm home sick with strep (sp?) for a couple of days, but when I get back to the office I'll scan the essay for you and post it. Grace and peace. Dave .... ... Error 15 - Unable to exit Windows. Try the door. --- Ezycom V1.10g2 06fa0007 * Origin: YOUR BBS, Sacramento, ca 916-448-5840 (1:203/9264) @PATH: 203/9264 530 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1502) Wed 28 Dec 94 6:37 By: Jim Coleman To: Michael Welch Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.02 79135 @MSGID: 1:324/127 549fa510 @TID: GE 1.11+ Holiday Greetings to you as well Michael! BTW have you or any other memebers of the echo heard of MAGNETIC RESEARCH INC, which I believe is in NJ. A recent mention of them by Don Lancaster in ELECTRONICS TODAY? caught my attention. Thanks for any info...and have a great '95! --- * Origin: Computer Castle, Newton NH 1-603-382-3471 (1:324/127) @PATH: 324/127 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1503) Thu 29 Dec 94 6:28 By: Jim Coleman To: Arlo Hagler Re: cold fusion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.02 79135 @MSGID: 1:324/127 54a0f478 @TID: GE 1.11+ Hello Arlo.. just caught your post re the above, and wanted to recommend BAD SCIENCE, a book about the cold fusion odyssey. This book was brot to my attention by Don Lancaster's hardware hacker column in ELECTRONICS NOW. It's a great read at 600+ pages or so. An interesting tidbit is Pons? is I beleive now working in Japan, fo a company owned by Toyota. So work contiunes in this field. --- * Origin: Computer Castle, Newton NH 1-603-382-3471 (1:324/127) @PATH: 324/127 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1516) Tue 27 Dec 94 9:07 By: Michael Welch To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >"depleted" uranium in shells, possibly in small arms bullets, and I'm curio >just what Depleted uranium might be. So far asI know there is no >non-radioactive form of uranium, do you know someone who is informed on Hmmm, a little out of my field. Sorry to say I don't know anything about it other than what we've seen in this echo. You might leave a voice message for Dave Keniston at Citizens for Social Responsibility, 707-822-7005. He's in and out, but will return your call. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1517) Tue 27 Dec 94 9:18 By: Michael Welch To: Gale Barrows Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GB>What are these things? I get the impresion they are basicly a skylight/pipe >cross. Are there any optics or are they just a tube witj glazing? What diame >do they run. Could they be home built using large diameter (12-18") plastic >pipe? They have a highly reflective interior on the pipe, a bubble at the top, and at the bottom a bubble to diffuse rather than concentrate the light. They go clear through the roof just like stove chimney with a flashing just like a chimney or a stand pipe. Would be hard to make, and be as efficient as the real thing, but I'm sure that something could be done. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1518) Tue 27 Dec 94 9:28 By: Michael Welch To: John Luker Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JL>Michael, is someone selling suntubes? any more info?, I just caught the tail >end of this conversation G&A Natural Lighting is a retailer of these units. They were the ones showing them off at SEER. 408-541-8930 I also noticed an ad in Solar Today for SunPipe (tm). I'm not sure if this a second company manufacturing something similar, or if it is the same unit we've been talking about. 708-272-6977 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1519) Tue 27 Dec 94 0:04 By: Mark Whitaker To: Dave Paxton Re: GAS REFERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Dave Paxton to Mark Whitaker <=- DP> Thanks for the input. Is servel made in US? I was under the conception DP> they closed down in the US and are only imported from S.Am. and Europe. Don't know about that... mark --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1540) Sat 31 Dec 94 21:23 By: Lawrence London To: ALL Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic converter for woodstove 2) pine as fuel St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 b6955a8d @PID: FM 2.02 Anyone have info on: 1) Availability and use of catalytic converters retrofitted in woodburning heaters 2) What I might need to know regarding burning only (Hybrid Loblolly) pine in a woodstove. I have access to a free lifetime supply of pine logs, mostly 3"-10" diameter. Many thanks for any feedback. Lawrence London FidoNet: 1:3641/1.502 Internet: london@sunSITE.unc.edu --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1575) Thu 29 Dec 94 10:34 By: Jim Bilderback To: Bill Basford Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 9dbd4b54 BB> Bill ... thanx for the peddle info ... > I missed your original message, but I looked into pedal power sever > years ago and even collected some of the needed parts, although I > never got the whole contraption built. If I remember correctly, I > calculated that one hour of pedalling should run a typical color TV > for about 30 minutes. > > Working from information in the ASHRAE guidebooks, a typical > college athlete should be able to peddle at about 300 watts for an > hour or more. A typical middle aged male in reasonable condition > should be able to produce 100 watts for the 30 or so minutes > required for a good aerobic workout. Of course this works best if there seems to be some discrepency (sp?) regarding power output, guess it's ineffencies of the power conversion. > According to a lecture I once heard at the Univ. of Maine, to get > good workouts without risking a sudden heart attack, you should ped > with moderate effort for the first twenty minutes of each workout, > then pedal hard for most of the remainder of the workout, and then > pedal easy for the last five minutes or so. And don't forget, the > typical couch potato (did you mean yourself?) should consult with a > doctor before indulging in vigorous workouts on a pedal machine. ... and he died with 10 amp hours in his deep cycle battery, we hope the kids spend it well :) happy newt year ... jb * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1588) Fri 30 Dec 94 20:50 By: Chita Cazares To: Gale Barrows Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:202/212 54a3102c @PID: RA 2.02 21817 About that machine you used to make "firewood" out of old newspapers - I got hold of one at a swap meet a couple of years ago. It's quite ornate old iron, with a split rod down the center of a metal trough and a handle to wind it all. Are you supposed to put water into that trough? Did you try it that way? I'm interested in getting rid of excess used oil this way, but I wonder what's coming out of the chimney when you burn oil-soaked papers. What do you think? How long did you wait before burning it? --- FMailX/386 1.0g * Origin: The Open Forum SD CA (619)284-2924 (1:202/212) @PATH: 202/212 203 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1629) Thu 29 Dec 94 13:34 By: Gale Barrows To: Arlo Hagler Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable link ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AH>I was responding to Gale's (?) assertion that we could use nuclear fuel AH>from AH>Russion subs. That does not sound like cold fusion. It sounds like AH>fission as AH>usual. Happy Holidays. That statement was made as a jest about the origions of this echo. It started out to be simply a echo discussing backyard home based energy generation and utilization, largely for the folks who wanted to or were forcced to get by without utility supplied energy. I made the comment that if Russia were selling off the *reactors* from retired submarines, somebody here would have come up with a way to put it in his back yard. When I started in this echo, it wasn't even an echo yet and was just one area on one BBS!!! The discussions had little to do with the world environement etc. but consisted more of how to build a generator out of scrap lawn mowers and such things. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1630) Sat 31 Dec 94 19:59 By: Brad Reckamp To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: RE: MILK JUG SALVAGE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:365/200.0 2f05fe88 Hello, I'm new around here and I may be responding to this a little late but here it goes... U238 does not have an "isotope". Urainum has several isotopes, 1 of which is U-238. I have in front of me a chart of the nuclides. Thats like a periodic table of all isotopes of all elements. It lists selected proproties of the various isotopes. There are 14 isotopes of Uranium listed all of which are radioactive, that is they all have a half life. I hope this info will be of assistance. NUKES do it all night!! --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Sherwood Forest (1:365/200) @PATH: 365/200 866 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1631) Sat 31 Dec 94 20:11 By: Brad Reckamp To: Angela Burns Re: RE: Divert dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:365/200.0 2f060140 @REPLY: 1:394/4 548fea48 AB> I divert the heat from our dryer into the house in the AB> winter by attaching a pantyhose leg to the dryer vent AB> with a fat rubber band. Just check the pantyhose AB> "lint collector" regularly to make sure it's not too Cool idea, why didn't I think of that? Nukes do it all night!! --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Sherwood Forest (1:365/200) @PATH: 365/200 866 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1632) Sat 31 Dec 94 20:15 By: Brad Reckamp To: Ian Woofenden Re: solar energy weenie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:365/200.0 2f06023a @REPLY: 1:101/525.3 d290f239 IW> ... So many alternative energy people either have never IW> heard of the laws of thermodynamics or else they expect IW> Congress to repeal them. - Don Lancaster You can say that again!! --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Sherwood Forest (1:365/200) @PATH: 365/200 866 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1633) Sat 31 Dec 94 20:21 By: Brad Reckamp To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:365/200.0 2f0603ac MS> you can help me with a MS> question; The military is using "depleted" uranium in MS> shells, possibly in MS> small arms bullets, and I'm curious just what Depleted MS> uranium might be. So MS> far asI know there is no non-radioactive form of MS> uranium, do you know someone MS> who is informed on nuclear matters that could answer this point? Depleted Uranium means that they have removed some of the U-235 from the mix. As you may know, all samples of a given element contain a variety of differant isotopes of that element. Uranium consists of U-233, U234, U235, ect... When you enrich some Uranium for use as fule that means you are increasing the concentration of U-235 (the fissionable isotope of Uranium) in the sample. Actually I am assuming that depleted Uranium refers to Uranium that has been depleted of U-235. Every isotope of Uranium on my chart of the nuclides is radioactive. Each different isotope decays w/ a different scheem. In general, a sample of uranium will give off alpha radiation. I think thats enough for now, if you want to hear more let me know. I'll see if I can answer any questions about radiation or nuclear power and I'll try not to b.s. if I don't know the answer. I'll say when I don't have a clue. OK? NUKES do it all night!! --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Sherwood Forest (1:365/200) @PATH: 365/200 866 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1652) Sat 31 Dec 94 12:21 By: Aubrey Kaigler To: All Re: FREE #'S ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.02 2978 @MSGID: 1:374/17 54a3ea46 @TID: GE 1.11+ Free 800 number and Low Cost Long Distance You may have noticed lately that the major phone companies have been coming out with all kinds of "special" programs to SAVE YOU MONEY on your long distance calls. Well I think I have the one that will give you more of what you want!! Long distance services at a low cost and a FREE 800 number to boot. There are never any non usage fee (no installation costs, no setup fee and no surcharge costs) Our rates are very reasonable at 15 cents per minute for day time calling and 13 cents for non-day calling. These rates apply to both "Dial-1 outbound and 800 inbound calls. Our billing is done in six-second increments instead of whole minutes, We offer international rates as well. Additionally we offer a calling card that has no per-call surcharges and is billed at 20 cents per call instead of the 90 cents charged by some other companies. The following are typical questions that are asked. Who is ISI Telecommunications? ISI is a switched line distance vendor and telecom integration group providing the full range of telecommunications services to both large and small business customers. A Washington, DC based corporation, ISI is considered the fastest growing Facilities -Based Carrier/Reseller in the industry. Are there any fees involved? There are never any non usage fees involved to take advantage of ISI's service If we are not charged, how does ISI make a profit? Through FCC specified Interexchange Service agreements with National Carriers like AT&T, MCI and WilTel, ISI purchases millions of dollars of long distance service each year. This buying-power qualifies us for large volume discounts. We pass on a portio n of these discounts to our customers and retain the other portion as our revenue. How does billing work? Your calls will be timed and transported by the National Carriers' Networks, ISI then receives the billing information on tape and prepares your bill. When you receive your bill from ISI you will find additional information showing your flat rate per mi nute, detaining your savings on each call, and summarizing you total dollar savings for the month. What about the discounts I am already receiving? The group rate we quote you will effectively replace your current plan, with savings up to and exceeding 20 % above and beyond that plan. What if I am not satisfied? ISI is committed to providing the best value in the long distance industry. Therefore, we do not need term agreements to attract and hold customers. We do keep customers the old fashioned way: with great service, excellent quality, and always the most c ompetitive rates. How do I get started ? Simply provide me with your name and mailing address or FAX number and I will mail or FAX the enrollment form out to you. Just complete the form and fax it or mail it and you or all finished. In several days you will be contacted about the services you have chosen. Thank you for taking the time to find out about this excellent service and if you would like to enroll in this service I will Email the form . Fill it out and FAX the signed copy to me and that is all it takes. I can be of any further service or if you have any questions please don't hesitate to Email or call me at 1-800-576-3952 ext. 200. --- GEcho 1.11+ * Origin: Energy * Where people discuss it before it runs out! (1:374/17) @PATH: 374/17 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1671) Sat 31 Dec 94 13:42 By: Gale Barrows To: Elvis Hargrove Re: SOLAR AND/OR WIND BASED E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:397/6@fidonet.org ce179641 -> So, are you going to change the name, since your not Occult oriented now? -> Tom EH>Haven't felt the urge to. EH> * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) Sounds like you could change the spelling to BORED though !!!! 8-) --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1672) Sat 31 Dec 94 13:45 By: Gale Barrows To: Michael Welch Re: SUNTUBE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- GB>What are these things? I get the impresion they are basicly a skylight/pipe >cross. Are there any optics or are they just a tube witj glazing? What diame >do they run. Could they be home built using large diameter (12-18") plastic >pipe? MW>They have a highly reflective interior on the pipe, a bubble at the top, MW>and at the bottom a bubble to diffuse rather than concentrate the MW>light. They go clear through the roof just like stove chimney with a MW>flashing just like a chimney or a stand pipe. MW>Would be hard to make, and be as efficient as the real thing, but I'm MW>sure that something could be done. The bubbles at each end would be simple as such pieces are available commercialy. Tube could be plastic or metal with aluminum foil carefully glued to the inside wall with the shiny side exposed. Flashing again could be easily constructed to match the requirements. Could even wrap fiberglass batts around the outside to insulate the tube. Realy probably not even a nead for the tube to be round. The assembly could be made of wood and the interior lined with mirrors or mirror tiles. If you wanted a round tube you could use old 55 gallon oil drums. Lots of possibilities here !!! --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1673) Sat 31 Dec 94 10:48 By: Geoff Moist To: Malcolm Stebbins Re: debleted Uranium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2612/114.0 878A2A53 @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 94-0019 Depleted Uranium is U-238, the most abundant form of Uranium found in nature. It is "depleted" of U-235, the Uranium most desired for fission in nuclear reactors. U-235 is separated out(it's about .7% of natural uranium) and the leftover is mostly U-238. It is radioactive but only at a low level. It emits Beta, Gamma, and Alpha radiation. It is very dense, that's why it's used for bullets. Hope this helps. --- * OLX 2.1 TD * Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: Hafa Adai Exchange, Great Mills MD 301-994-9460/62 (1:2612/114.0) @PATH: 2612/114 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1677) Sun 1 Jan 95 20:15 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Gale Barrows Re: Re: alt.energy.renewable ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 10970e76 -> had little to do with the world environement etc. but consisted more of how -> to build a generator out of scrap lawn mowers and such things. Hey! Sounds like my kind of place! BTW, I'm sure glad we got it back from the burp-net guys..... I never saw so many enviro-nuts. (and I had always thought I WAS one.....) ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1712) Sat 31 Dec 94 22:26 By: DENNIS LUTWEN To: ANDY ENG Re: saving heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:90FB F59FB340 * Original msg to: Andy Eng Here's an idea I've been using on my wood stove that might work for you. Surround your 4" outlet stack with a 6" tin wood stove type chimney. Put a cleanout tee on the bottom extend it out a foot or so from the hot heater and use a cooking stove exhaust fan on one side and plug the other. Leave a gap near the ceiling or wherever your water heater exhaust pipe goes out. This is where the room air comes in and of course you can aim it where you want after the fan connection at the bottom. A thermostat mounted near the inlet gap would shut off the fan when the temp of the water heater pipe was too low and avoid blowing cold air around. Another idea is to make a long horizontal run of your exhaust pipe to the other side of the room. ( this is the way Russians use their wood stoves) but it might be impractical for you. ... Thank god we don't get as much government as we pay for! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GOMail v1.2 [92-0631] * Origin: The First Thing We Do Is Kill All of the Lawyers (1:102/760) @PATH: 102/760 752 2 209/720 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1723) Mon 2 Jan 95 19:51 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Gale Barrows Re: SOLAR AND/OR WIND BASED E ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 111408aa -> Sounds like you could change the spelling to BORED though !!!! 8-) Hee hee! There's already one of those here..... look up 397/3 in your nodelist..... We're still interested in being HIDDEN though, which is what OCCULT "*Really*" means. BOO! is private except via Fidonet. No local number is advertized. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1770) Sat 31 Dec 94 7:30 By: John Stanley To: Ian Woofenden Re: WHISPER 1000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- IW>What happened when the transformers burnt out? It happened during the construction of the house in the dead of winter when I was basking in the Florida sun, so I don't know all the particulars. The workmen said that at one point you could feel the warmth radiating from it from 5 feet away. I think they just shut it down. IW>I paid the extra dough for the composite blades. I don't believe they were available when we bought ours. When the wooden blades need replacing I will definitely spring for the composite blades. IW>Do you have a cumulative amp hour meter on your 1000 so you know IW>what you're getting? Yeah, but I'm too lazy to actually record the readings. I'd like to replace all the Cruising Equipment meters with a setup hooked up to my old 386 laptop that will record everything including temperatures. IW>Do you also have PVs? Yep, about 2000 peak watts worth. IW>I also dream of putting up a bigger machine, but I want IW>to see what the 1000 will do first before investing that much time IW>and $. A couple of years of metering should tell whether it would IW>be better to put the money into PVs or more wind, or both. The Whisper 1000 will power my house by itself when it puts out almost full capacity, but much of the time when there is no sun the wind is only sufficient for 200-500 watts. That's just not enough. So I'd like to have the Whisper 3000 for marginal energy days. I still have the Trace 2624 that was replaced with a 4024 as well as a 1500 watt Powerstar, so I will use the 4024's aux relays to run all sorts of loads off the extra inverters when I have too much juice coming in on high energy days. John (jstanley@solar.win.net) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1771) Sat 31 Dec 94 17:09 By: Mark Richardson To: Tom Lent Re: RE: DIESEL ALTERNATIVES ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom, thanks for the great info. Are there any published reports on your use of soy? How did you deal with the viscosity difference between diesel and soy oil when you ran straight soy oil (fuel tank, pumps,etc.)? If you have any other sources of info please forward at your convenience. Also, what's the phone # for the Greenpeace BBSS.F.? Do they have any other BBS's closer to me (ARKANSAS close to Memphis,TN) or toll free access? Thanks again! Mark.... --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1772) Sat 31 Dec 94 0:10 By: Mark Whitaker To: Geoff Moist Re: HOME POWER MAG. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=> Quoting Geoff Moist to All <=- GM> @MSGID: 1:2612/114.0 8787006A GM> @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 94-0019 Can someone please give me the GM> address for subscribing to Home Power Magazine, and the cost? Thanks GM> alot. -!- Write to: Home Power Magazine PO Box 520 Ashland, OR 97520 The cost is $15 per year for 2nd class delivery, $30 per year for 1st class delivery. One year is six issues. Its worth every penny :) mark --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1773) Mon 2 Jan 95 13:09 By: Tom Biggs To: All Re: RE: Divert dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:273/203@fidonet.org 118b1d71 > AB> I divert the heat from our dryer into the house in the > AB> winter by attaching a pantyhose leg to the dryer vent > AB> with a fat rubber band. Just check the pantyhose > AB> "lint collector" regularly to make sure it's not too >Cool idea, why didn't I think of that? I did that but it clogs very soon. Even before it clogs it reduces the airflow out of the dryer significantly, reducing its efficiency. I found an old plastic box, and cut a hole in it to receive the dryer hose. I bungee'd an old heater filter over the open side of the box. (I cleaned the filter first, by blowing compressed air through it backwards.) This is a low restriction filter that takes weeks before it starts to clog significantly. I have been using it for a couple of years now. Since I have forced-air heat, I have a continuous source of filters to recycle. Ultimately, I'd rather have an efficient heat-exchanger on the output of the dryer instead. The dryer is venting into my basement, which is also my workshop, and my tools are getting a bit rusty. --- þ SLMR 2.1a þ Cogito ergo cogito ! --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: DSC BBS * Ivyland, PA * 215-443-7390 * 6,000 SIGS! * (1:273/203) @PATH: 273/203 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1778) Mon 2 Jan 95 23:10 By: Michael Davis To: Kevin Benton Re: Re: Effects Of Windmill B ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:207/225@fidonet.org 4e051cc7 Hi, The boots on the aircraft propellers do not inflate, they have heating elements built into them. These could be used for a windgen but at what cost, they may draw more than the generator is putting out. Mike ___ * MR/2 2.09A NR * --- QScan v1.131b / 01-0417 * Origin: Prime Connection - Riverside,CA - 909.274.9637*USR/DS (1:207/225) @PATH: 207/225 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1782) Sun 1 Jan 95 19:24 By: Gale Barrows To: Chita Cazares Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:202/212 54a3102c CC>About that machine you used to make "firewood" out of old newspapers - I CC>got hold of one at a swap meet a couple of years ago. It's quite ornate CC>old iron, with a split rod down the center of a metal trough and a CC>handle to wind it all. Are you supposed to put water into that trough? CC>Did you try it that way? I'm interested in getting rid of excess used CC>oil this way, but I wonder what's coming out of the chimney when you CC>burn oil-soaked papers. What do you think? How long did you wait before CC>burning it? Your machine doesn't sound quite like mine but is probably close. Mine has a sort of trough also but it is actualy just a guide to supposedly help roll the papers. I don't think anything is supposed to go in the trough. I just let the paper "log" soak up the oil and then set it aside on a drain tray. Usualy ovenight was enough to let any excess oil drain off. Just let enough drain off so that the "log" doesn't drip. The smoke is rather dark and sometimes about black if there is a lot of oil held in the "log". Not as black as when I drip feed oil straight into the firebox, though. --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1794) Tue 3 Jan 95 3:35 By: Marc Visconte To: Vic Dura Re: ALTERNATIVE ECONOMY PHILO ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:275/30@@fidonet.org 6e24db05 From: VIC DURA Refer#: NONE To: LEE BUTLER Recvd: NO Subj: ALTERNATIVE ECONOMY PHILO Conf: (287) F-Home Pow --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ LB> Lee Porter Butler (christian name) LB> Alpha Lee Rainbow Light Cloud (inner identity ) The Bird People, Builders LB> of a New Dawn, Eloheim, Arc Angels, light beings, sentient point of LB> persepctive. VD>You should live in Boulder CO. You would feel very comfortable there. Vic, I noticed he mentioned ARCing angels... I won't discuss the legal aspects, but, are there any figures for efficiency and power consumption? How high a voltage is required to get them to arc? Are there any by-products or other things we should know. For that matter, I'm not sure whether they are being used to provide Light, Heat, or power, although the apellation "light beings" leads me to think that a few smaller angels, mounted strategically (ontop of the Christmas tree?) might be used to zone illuminaion. Lee, Vic, others, any illuminating thoughts will be pondered... * SLMR 2.1a * Cry RAPE!? Just say BLAM! BLAM!BLAM!BLAM BLAM! --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0061 * Origin: Straight Board BBS VA. BCH. VA 804-468-6454/6528 (1:275/30) @PATH: 275/30 9 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1795) Tue 3 Jan 95 3:35 By: Marc Visconte To: Michael Welch Re: REFER gas... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:275/30@@fidonet.org 7d93ea6c MW>My propane refrig uses 4 D cells for lighting, and no electricity for MW>thermostat. It is a Consul, and it works GREAT and uses very little MW>propane. Best of luck. DP>Is Consul made in USA or an import? If at all possible I would like to >buy US but if I can't find any will have to go with an import. In addition, what is the size of it (cubic feet capacity)? [scrap that last, I just read your subsequent message describing a 7.7-7.8 cu ft. refer - which leads to the NEXT question] Is it large enough for your preferance? How cold does it get? Not being totally up on them, I wonder if they get cold enough to freeze water (if it has a freezer section). Thanks, -m. * SLMR 2.1a * And if they take away my guns, I'll fight with 'taters! --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0061 * Origin: Straight Board BBS VA. BCH. VA 804-468-6454/6528 (1:275/30) @PATH: 275/30 9 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1796) Tue 3 Jan 95 3:35 By: Marc Visconte To: Jim Bilderback Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:275/30@@fidonet.org 9cc02705 BB>On (30 Nov 94) Jim Bilderback wrote to All... BB>JB> can anybody point me towards 12v peddle power designs? would >JB> prefer something relatively current (no pun) and efficient. BB>JB> any idea how much power a typical couch potatoe can peddle >JB> and not sweat too much? BB>IW>Let's see. _Home Power_ #43 has an article about a unit that uses 14 >IW>pedallers to generate up to one KW. Contact is Bart Orlando at 115 >IW>S. G St., Arcata, CA 95221. Message phone 707-239-5119. BB>Jim, > I missed your original message, but I looked into pedal power several > years ago and even collected some of the needed parts, although I > never got the whole contraption built. If I remember correctly, I > calculated that one hour of pedalling should run a typical color TV > for about 30 minutes. Additionally, Jim, look into a book from Rodale Press (Emmhaus, PA) call, curiously enough, "Pedal Power". If is about using bike/pedal related power plants for various power needs. Included in it is a small plan for pedal electric for TV use. One of the better things they have is a recumbant/reclining design - allows more eficient use of muscles. They cover flywheels and PTO's and lots of neat stuff. If you can't find it in the book shops, or would rather see it before purchasing it, you will probably have great luck in getting a local library to either get it on intra-library loan or order it outright. Another good book on pedal power is "Bicycle Science" (or "Bicycling Science" - I can't remember), put out by MIT Press. Luck, Lux, and Pax -m. * SLMR 2.1a * Attention Congress: I've got a LOT to live for. Revenge. --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0061 * Origin: Straight Board BBS VA. BCH. VA 804-468-6454/6528 (1:275/30) @PATH: 275/30 9 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1797) Tue 3 Jan 95 3:35 By: Marc Visconte To: Dave Paxton Re: Rocket(sled) Science... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:275/30@@fidonet.org 803abcba 'Lo Dave, and everybody... On the subject of gas refridgerators... With the thought that these guys have been around for decades, the technologies used can't be too technical. How hard would it be to home-brew one of these beasties? Granted, it may not perform as well as the new ones, in fact maybe not as well as the old ones, but with group discussion and design, and applied newer technologies, we could probably come out with a good design after a few cycles. I don't knkow the pressures required, but I'm sure that it wouldn't be anything too hard to replicate with simple but good design. For survival reasons, I'd LOVE to get plans and give it a thought. Think about a refer that could be run off solar off a simple collector setup. I wonder if this would be reversable (like a heat pump) for winter use? ...assuming maybe a ground loop for heat pickup. For that matter, by careful design and judicious placement, I wonder if wall mounted setups could serve as low-capacity air conditioners? For that matter, what capacity are we talking about here? I wonder what patents covered the original designs... the technology of the day would probably be pretty easy to replicate today. Gee, I ramble (therefore, I am). -m. * SLMR 2.1a * Cthulha in '96 - stop choosing the lesser of two evils... --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0061 * Origin: Straight Board BBS VA. BCH. VA 804-468-6454/6528 (1:275/30) @PATH: 275/30 9 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1822) Fri 30 Dec 94 17:57 By: Ian Woofenden To: Geoff Moist Re: Home Power Mag. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 f92587cf @REPLY: 1:2612/114.0 8787006A On (25 Dec 94) Geoff Moist wrote to All... GM> Can someone please give me the address for subscribing to GM> Home Power Magazine, and the cost? Thanks alot. POB 520 Ashland, OR 97520 916-475-0830. $15 per year. Ian ... If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1831) Sat 31 Dec 94 17:22 By: Ian Woofenden To: All Re: Happy New Year ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:101/525.3 eeb42293 My New Year's present to myself was getting our new Whisper 1000 windplant installed. Just got down from the tower a couple of hours ago, and am now anxiously awaiting the wind! It has spun the thing a little, but not enough to generate and reassure me that I got everything wired right. I must say that the Whisper manual could use some improvement. Not that a person of average intelligence can't figure it out. But there are some contradictory things in there, and other things are just left out - like it never tells you to connect the main leads off the machine, or to put the tail on! Looks like a pretty nice machine though. I'll report on its production if it ever blows. Wouldn't you know that it has been blustering around for weeks and now that I got it up it's dead calm. I *am* thankful to have had a couple of calm days in which to install it. Ian ... Good day for flying but bad day for landings.... --- PPoint 1.80 * Origin: A Solar and Wind Powered Point on Earth (1:101/525.3) @PATH: 101/525 330 180 324/288 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1837) Mon 2 Jan 95 11:13 By: Michael Welch To: Elvis Hargrove Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS. NOT!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EH>Turned ALL the attributes off, apparently. That's the SPECIFIC reason high >ASCII characters are outlawed in Fido. There's no telling what improper MOD Are you saying that one of the Fido rules outlaws the use of ANSI code? I would be surprised, but if so, would you please quote it to me. Also if so, I apologize to all. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1838) Mon 2 Jan 95 11:18 By: Michael Welch To: John Stanley Re: WHISPER 1000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- JS>Yeah, but I'm too lazy to actually record the readings. I'd like to >replace all the Cruising Equipment meters with a setup hooked up to my >old 386 laptop that will record everything including temperatures. Check out the Omnimeter from Sun Selector. (304)485-7150 It has a computer interface that is pretty neat! --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1850) Tue 3 Jan 95 20:21 By: Gale Barrows To: Brad Reckamp Re: RE: Divert dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:365/200.0 2f060140 AB> I divert the heat from our dryer into the house in the AB> winter by attaching a pantyhose leg to the dryer vent AB> with a fat rubber band. Just check the pantyhose AB> "lint collector" regularly to make sure it's not too BR>Cool idea, why didn't I think of that? Use the whole pair. Twice the capacity for lint. Those legs waving around can lead to a lot of laughs, especialy when a litter of kittens finds them !!! --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1851) Tue 3 Jan 95 20:29 By: Gale Barrows To: Lawrence London Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic converter for woodstove 2) pine as fuel St: Rcvd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @REPLY: 1:3641/1.502 b6955a8d LL>1) Availability and use of catalytic converters retrofitted in LL> woodburning heaters No info here as there has never been a need for such. LL>2) What I might need to know regarding burning only (Hybrid Loblolly) LL> pine in a woodstove. I have access to a free lifetime supply of LL> pine logs, mostly 3"-10" diameter. About all I have burned in the past has been ponderosa pine. Other woods like cottonwood and quaking aspen has been used on rare occaisions but I much prefered pine as it was easier to get and split. About the only thing against pine is that it does build up more creosote, especialy when the fire is banked down or when using an air tight stove. My experience has been with cookstoves (where pine is probably best especialy if it is just a hair on the pitchy side for a quick fire), box stoves, barrel stoves, and the best room/house heater, a Warm Morning US Army surplus pot belly. Small chunks for a quick hot fire,m large chunks for a sustained fire. Pitch for kindling but very little pitch for normal use unless you want a quick hot fire in the cookstove. LL>Many thanks for any feedback. LL>Lawrence London LL>FidoNet: 1:3641/1.502 LL>Internet: london@sunSITE.unc.edu LL>--- LL> * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) --- msged 2.05 * Origin: Custer's Last Stand - Custer, SD. (1:109/120.303) @PATH: 109/120 104 370 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1853) Wed 4 Jan 95 20:38 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Marc Visconte Re: Rocket(sled) Science... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 1217d5f5 -> For survival reasons, I'd LOVE to get plans and give it a thought. For survival reasons it might pay you to know they use AMMONIA gas. (No, not the stuff in the kitchen.) It's dangerous, poisonous, and a PAIN to deal with. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1873) Tue 3 Jan 95 23:32 By: Angela Burns To: Bob Roach Re: Divert Dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @PID: RA 2.02 80357 @MSGID: 1:394/4 54a87c18 @REPLY: 1:271/270 94276922 I never worry about the moisture here in Louisiana; it's nearly always so damp you could wring water out of the air if you could get hold of it! In a drier climate I would certainly think that would be a concern. I just don't see the sense in sending all those BTU's outside -- I need 'em! --- * Origin: The EDGE, Hammond_LA *1-504-345-3797* (1:394/4) @PATH: 394/4 7 396/2 1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1903) Thu 5 Jan 95 10:20 By: Jim Bilderback To: Marc Visconte Re: Peddle Power? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:125/42 25be8b52 MV> > Additionally, Jim, look into a book from Rodale Press (Emmhaus, PA) > call, curiously enough, "Pedal Power". If is about using bike/pedal > related power plants for various power needs. Included in it is a > small plan for pedal electric for TV use. One of the better things > they have is a recumbant/reclining design - allows more eficient use > of muscles. They cover flywheels and PTO's and lots of neat stuff. > If you can't find it in the book shops, or would rather see it > before purchasing it, you will probably have great luck in getting a > local library to either get it on intra-library loan or order it > outright. > > Another good book on pedal power is "Bicycle Science" (or "Bicycling > Science" - I can't remember), put out by MIT Press. > thanx much for the peddle power update. the local library is currently down due to quake damage but will check in with them when they're back in business. * JABBER v1.2 * --- MsgToss 2.0c (r) * Origin: Humboldt Exchange -Eureka, CA.- USR 28.8k V34/VFC (1:125/42) @PATH: 125/42 37 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1906) Wed 4 Jan 95 17:36 By: Raul Almquist To: All Re: Home Power ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:282/62.105 AB308D42 @PID: MacKennel 2.0.12 #MK24RAUL Is anyone from Home Power Magazine's publishing staff in here? --- MacKennel 2.0.12 * Origin: ShadowMac BBS - Twin Cities - Minnesota (1:282/62.105) @PATH: 282/62 1 270/101 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1937) Wed 4 Jan 95 10:21 By: Michael Welch To: Aubrey Kaigler Re: FREE #'S ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Free 800 number and Low Cost Long Distance Please take your advertising elsewhere. If every businessperson in this echo did as you just did, it would ruin the echo. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 826-8640 (1:125/402) @PATH: 125/402 40 125 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1948) Fri 6 Jan 95 11:29 By: Jim Poston To: All Re: Loss of Usenet gate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:213/742.0 2f0d99fc Is it just me, or has the signal-to-noise ratio gone up since the Usenet gate has gone down? ___ X SLMR 2.1a X "It has many other uses as well. Allow me." - Worf --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Library COM -* Reno, NV USA *- (702) 785-4191 (1:213/742) @PATH: 213/742 213 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1951) Fri 6 Jan 95 0:23 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Michael Welch Re: HOLIDAY GREETINGS. NOT!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 13041bae -> Are you saying that one of the Fido rules outlaws the use of ANSI code? In a word, YES! Apparently you're new to Fidonet. It has always been a problem that people assume ALL systems react similarly to Hi ASCII and /or ANSI codes. Taint so. IBM is only one of MANY systems using Fido, and even all of THEM aren't the same. SO... It is almost universally accepted, and similarly prohibited that we do NOT use Hi ASCII characters in messages, and NEVER in any header or addressing areas. Folks who DO are generally unaware of the prohibition, and may never know what havoc they have wreaked on systems throughout Fido. In your case, *MY* system went totally dark, causing me to have to re-boot to regain my display. The resulting reset grunged ALL the files my system had opened at the time, causing me to lose two complete message bases and most of several more. I'm NOT defending the way my system reacted, but it never WOULD have done that had you not sent improper codes in your message. It's a good thing I was not aware of just HOW MUCH damage you'd done when I replied initially, or your ears would have burnt for REAL! -> I would be surprised, but if so, would you please quote it to me. I have plenty to do besides hunt up the pertinent files, but I can tell you that if you look in the instruction part of the Elist, you'll find that the moderators of most echo's have pretty clear rules established for such infractions. -> Also if so, I apologize to all. Believe me, it's fact, and it happens altogether too often for anyone to plead extended ignorance of the problems caused. SO, if you REALLY doubt me try the same message on one of the echos where the moderator has recently had HIS system gunged, and see what sort of reception, (Read as BOOTEDyerASSOUT) you get. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1952) Fri 6 Jan 95 12:56 By: Nolan Lee To: All Re: Kerosene ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:390/5@fidonet 4cf735b0 What is the storage life of kerosene? Are stabilizers available for kerosene available as for gasoline? How is storage life affected by tempature? Will bacteria grow in kerosene if water is present as in diesel fuel? Are diesel fuel biocides compatable with kerosene? Which kinds of plastics are safe to store kerosene in? thanks in advance, Nolan --- Msgedsq 2.2e * Origin: WSTPC*Files*Echos*504-886-2157*USR HST & V.everything (1:390/5) @PATH: 390/5 1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1953) Fri 6 Jan 95 6:33 By: Lewis Cosper To: Gale Barrows Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic converter for woodstove 2) pine as fuel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 03068bb5 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Gale, > My experience has been with cookstoves Been toying with the idea of getting us one of those. Do you know of anyone that still manufactures them? > box stoves, Had one of those. Fairly nice stove. It was kinda spendy, although. > barrel stoves, Got one of those now with a cast iron door complete with asbestos door seals, and pretty much air tight. We keep a couple inches of ashes in the bottom and put a row of 1 inch fire bricks along the sides. Haven't had to change the barrel in 5 years of constant use and here on the coast we seldom have a day that we don't build a fire. This time of the year there is virtually a fire in the critter 24 hours a day. Found a large piece of channel iron and that sets on top for a small low temp cook top. Best all around heating stove I have ever used and it sure has reduced my wood cutting time. Thing will hold up to 32 inch wood. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1954) Fri 6 Jan 95 6:44 By: Lewis Cosper To: Elvis Hargrove Re: alt.energy.renewable ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 0306b96e @REPLY: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 10970e76 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Elvis, GB> had little to do with the world environement etc. but consisted more of GB> how to build a generator out of scrap lawn mowers and such things. > Hey! Sounds like my kind of place! Yup, I could learn to like this. > BTW, I'm sure glad we got it back from the burp-net guys..... I never > saw so many enviro-nuts. (and I had always thought I WAS one.....) > Was kinda boring there for a while. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1955) Fri 6 Jan 95 6:45 By: Lewis Cosper To: Ian Woofenden Re: Happy New Year ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 0306b96f @REPLY: 1:101/525.3 eeb42293 @PID: FM 2.02 > My New Year's present to myself was getting our new Whisper > 1000 windplant installed. Congrats Ian. Bet you will really enjoy the extra power. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1956) Fri 6 Jan 95 7:18 By: Lewis Cosper To: Lawrence London Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic converter for woodstove 2) pine as fuel St: Rcvd ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 030749b3 @REPLY: 1:3641/1.502 b6955a8d @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Lawerence, > 2) What I might need to know regarding burning only (Hybrid Loblolly) > pine in a woodstove. I have access to a free lifetime supply of > pine logs, mostly 3"-10" diameter. I guess I have burned darn near every variety of wood there is to be had including construction scraps. I am not very particular. <> Rules of the road for me. - Dry wood is best (here on the Oregon coast that isn't always easy). Puts out more btu per pound and smokes a lot less. If you are cutting and packing, those btu's per pound become important. - Get yourself one of the little magnetic thermometers and stick it to the stack about eye level. Keep the flue stack temperature up. On my setup that is around 200 - 300 degrees. Some experimenting will be in order to determine the optimum temperature of your arrangement. A good stack temperature will keep the stove drawing well and reduce the amount of condensation of creosote. - Burn a hot fire. That is to say rather than stuffing the stove and cutting back with the draft try to keep just enough fuel in there so that you can let it burn HOT. This alone will dramatically reduce creosote condensation accumulations. When you get the conditions correct there will be only a very small amount of visible smoke coming from the chimney. - Clean the chimney a few times during the heating season. BTW this can be done from inside the house if you are using a metal insulated flue rather than from the roof and with little mess. If you are interested I will relate how I do that. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1957) Fri 6 Jan 95 7:29 By: Lewis Cosper To: Tom Biggs Re: Divert dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 03077bea @REPLY: 1:273/203@fidonet.org 118b1d71 @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Tom, > I found an old plastic box, and cut a hole in it to receive the dryer > hose. I bungee'd an old heater filter over the open side of the box. That is an absolutely excellent idea. > The dryer is venting into my basement, which is also my workshop, and my > tools are getting a bit rusty. Spray them with WD40 on occasion. Here on the wet oregon coast that is the only way I have found to keep metal tools from rusting even in a wood heated shop. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1958) Fri 6 Jan 95 7:40 By: Lewis Cosper To: Gale Barrows Re: Just a thought! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 0307ad1a @PID: FM 2.02 Hi Gale, > I just let the paper "log" soak up the oil and then set it aside on a > drain tray. Never had the chance to try the paper logs, but I do take cardboard, cut it to about 3 inches wide, roll it up into a about a 3 inch roll with the open pores up and soak them with old motor oil. Makes a really nice fire starter. > Not as black as when I drip feed oil straight into the firebox, though. The only way I was ever able to get that to work with out excessive smoke was to use a blower on the critter. It was a bit on the noisy side, but it sure did put out the heat. Lewis --- * Origin: The Mansion (Charleston, Oregon) USA (1:356/12) @PATH: 356/12 18 280/1 396/1 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1990) Mon 2 Jan 95 23:38 By: Robert Bushorr To: Brad Reckamp Re: Re: WONDERING ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @EID:0ebd 1e22bcc2 @MSGID: 1:321/302.0 2f088e5c @REPLY: 1:365/200.0 2f0603ac Can you tell me if the projectiles will be radioactive to the point that a person carrying some over a long period of time has reason to be concerned? Or what about riding around in a tank with 30 shells surrounding you? Also, could the radioactivity be detected from a distance, possibly giving away your position? Thanks --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: SpaceMet South (Holyoke, MA) (1:321/302) @PATH: 321/302 109 152 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1993) Sat 7 Jan 95 9:43 By: Geoff Moist To: Mark Whitaker Re: HOME POWER MAG. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2612/114.0 8790437B @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 94-0019 MW>Home Power Magazine MW>PO Box 520 MW>Ashland, OR 97520 MW>The cost is $15 per year for 2nd class delivery, $30 per year for 1st class MW>delivery. One year is six issues. Its worth every penny :) Thank you very much! --- * OLX 2.1 TD * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: Hafa Adai Exchange, Great Mills MD 301-994-9460/62 (1:2612/114.0) @PATH: 2612/114 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1994) Sat 7 Jan 95 9:44 By: Geoff Moist To: Ian Woofenden Re: Home Power Mag. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:2612/114.0 8790437C @TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 94-0019 IW>POB 520 Ashland, OR 97520 916-475-0830. $15 per year. Thank you Ian. --- * OLX 2.1 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.10 * Origin: Hafa Adai Exchange, Great Mills MD 301-994-9460/62 (1:2612/114.0) @PATH: 2612/114 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1995) Sat 7 Jan 95 3:52 By: Marc Visconte To: Elvis Hargrove Re: ROCKET(SLED) SCIENCE... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:271/266@fidonet.org 8b7010a6 Me> For survival reasons, I'd LOVE to get plans and give it a thought. Thee: EH>For survival reasons it might pay you to know they use AMMONIA gas. EH>(No, not the stuff in the kitchen.) It's dangerous, poisonous, and a EH>PAIN to deal with. Yeah, it might be. Then again, so's gun powder, knives, snares, heavy machinery, cold weather, gasoline, etc. I can't let SIMPLE things (danger, poison, pain - GRIN) keep me from ensuring my survival. Freon - while not toxic to humans directly is toxic to the environment and is also being phased out. We have a technology here that could save energy, runs (as the descriptions go) forever. Ammonia (full strength), while poisonous, is also useful. I would not turn down fire, just because it burns. P.S. I *think* that it can also be run off of other fluids... --- þ POW 1.2 On Trial þ "And here's me with Elvis and the aliens at the trailer." --- QScan v1.14b / 01-0765 * Origin: Olympus BBS, Newport News Va. 804-595-0117 (1:271/266) @PATH: 271/266 265 255 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1997) Fri 6 Jan 95 22:12 By: Dave Paxton To: Marc Visconte Re: Rocket(sled) Science... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 878F3B23 MV>For survival reasons, I'd LOVE to get plans and give it a thought. MV>Think about a refer that could be run off solar off a simple MV>collector setup. There were companies just 10 years or so ago that were makeing solar refers. For some reason they didn't catch on (or work out???) MV>I wonder if this would be reversable (like a heat pump) for winter MV>use? ...assuming maybe a ground loop for heat pickup. I don't think so, but I'll keep thinking about it. MV>For that matter, by careful design and judicious placement, I wonder MV>if wall mounted setups could serve as low-capacity air conditioners? MV>For that matter, what capacity are we talking about here? Actually, it did cross my mind. I can remember gas air conditioners but mostly LARGE units for dept. stores, office bldgs, ect. MV>I wonder what patents covered the original designs... the MV>technology of the day would probably be pretty easy to replicate MV>today. Gee, I ramble (therefore, I am). I never thought about the patents. I think I'm gonna plan a trip soon to the Miami Library. They have the complete catalog of US patents available and you can get computerized drawings of the patents. (at least that is what I have heard, never been there) Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * Decibel: A southern girl one better than a nine --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-452-5227 (1:369/3.0) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/52 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1998) Fri 6 Jan 95 22:16 By: Dave Paxton To: Elvis Hargrove Re: Rocket(sled) Science... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:369/3 878F3B24 EH>For survival reasons it might pay you to know they use AMMONIA gas. (No, no EH>the stuff in the kitchen.) It's dangerous, poisonous, and a PAIN to deal wit I didn't mention that because I thought everyone already knew it. Everyone keeps worying about the amonia gas but I have never heard of anyone with one of these units ever haveing a problem with this. I have known probably 100 units that were darn good refers and no one ever spoke of a leak or any other problem with the gas. Big Dave * SLMR 2.1a * Decibels:10 beautiful southern women --- WM v3.11/92-0203 * Origin: Daybreak Mail System - *V32/28.8* - 305-452-5227 (1:369/3.0) @PATH: 369/3 101 74 32 135/52 94 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1999) Sat 7 Jan 95 19:59 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Lewis Cosper Re: alt.energy.renewable ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 13971d3e -> Yup, I could learn to like this. -> Was kinda boring there for a while. Riight! So it's COLD where you are these days? We got all the way down to 44F this week. Brrrrrrr! (I just left the 486 on. Warmed my room fine.) Big dogs are pretty warm too. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2000) Sat 7 Jan 95 20:01 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Lewis Cosper Re: Happy New Year ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 13971d3f -> Congrats Ian. Bet you will really enjoy the extra power. Yeah Ian! Me too. I wish *I* had one! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2001) Sat 7 Jan 95 20:13 By: Elvis Hargrove To: Lewis Cosper Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:397/6@fidonet.org 13971d40 -> I guess I have burned darn near every variety of wood there is to be had -> including construction scraps. I am not very particular. <> Me too! Construction scraps by the TON! But I have a question for ya about oil-drip barrel stoves. I had one in my mechanic shop years ago when I lived where it GOT cold. Mine was home-made, and worked REAL good, burning clean and hot and was easy to light and run. My friend up the road has a shop much like the one I had and services a fleet of candy-butcher trucks so he has a LOT of burnt crankcase oil to dispose of and has built himself a stove similar to the one I had. His though is a disaster! Mine burnt clean, his smokes BAD! Mine was HOT, his doesn't get warm enough to bother with. Somehow, I can't figure out why his doesn't work. Mine had a splash plate that the oil dropped on where it vaporized and burned almost smokeless. HIS has a plate, but for some reason POLLUTION is all his seems to make. What the heck have I forgotten after all these years of being warm all the time? His smokestack emmissions would gag a maggot! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) @PATH: 397/6 100 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2004) Thu 5 Jan 95 9:42 By: Kevin Benton To: Michael Davis Re: Re: Effects Of Windmill B ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:157/516.0 f0c03d43 @REPLY: 1:207/225@fidonet.org 4e051cc7 Michael Davis wrote in a message to Kevin Benton: MD> Hi, MD> The boots on the aircraft propellers do not inflate, they MD> have heating elements built into them. These could be used MD> for a windgen but at what cost, they may draw more than the MD> generator is putting out. Interesting. The systems I was referring to were available on leading edges of wings. You're right that some aircraft props have electrical heating elements on them. The speed that turbine blades spin at should be slow enough that de-icing boots would be adequate, though they would continuously use some power because they would need to have a pump running for suction to keep the boot against the surface. Of the systems, looking at it, if I were going to install an anti-ice system on a wind turbine prop, it would probably be an electrical heating element, with timers to rotate pads in use to reduce overall electrical consumption. We must remember, though, that this system will not work well to remove ice already formed, but to prevent ice from forming. I probably wouldn't install one unless icing was a regular problem because of the costs involved in maintaining such a system. When it comes to de-icing equipment, if the prop speeds are low enough, inflatable boots could be used, however, in order to use them, someone would need to make sure that at least a quarter to half inch of ice had developed on the leading edge before operating the boot. Any operation at amounts less than that will have a general tendency to push the ice out enough to form a cavern for the boot to operate in, effectively disabling it. Because of the need for a person to be present for the system, I would not want to install this particular de-icing system. Kevin - CFI ASE, IA; SA/A&P --- timEd-B9 * Origin: Project Thunder Coshocton,OH(614)622-9026;v32b/v42b (1:157/516) @PATH: 157/516 534 110 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2011) Sat 7 Jan 95 0:47 By: Bob Roach To: Angela Burns Re: Divert Dryer heat ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:271/270 28263227 AB>< I never worry about the moisture here in Louisiana; it's nearly >< I just don't see the sense in sending all those BTU's outside -- I need ><'em! I know what you mean about humidity. You can drown mildew here in august. Bob * SLMR 2.1a * Will herd cats for food. --- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93 * Origin: Virginia Data Exchange (1:271/270) @PATH: 271/270 3615/50 3641/1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2041) Sun 8 Jan 95 21:20 By: Lawrence London To: Lewis Cosper Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic converter for woodstove 2) pine as fuel St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 0415403d @REPLY: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 03068bb5 @PID: FM 2.02 > Been toying with the idea of getting us one of those. Do you know > of anyone > that still manufactures them? Call Woodman Associates New Hampshire 1-800-522-8216 Talk to Jim They have a large stock of catalytic converts and do mail order > Got one of those now with a cast iron door complete with asbestos > door seals, You can get fiberglass rope to replace the asbestos with. --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (2042) Sun 8 Jan 95 21:24 By: Lawrence London To: Lewis Cosper Re: Info needed: 1) catalytic converter for woodstove 2) pine as fuel St: Local Sent ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @MSGID: 1:3641/1.502 0415403e @REPLY: 1:356/12@fidonet.org 030749b3 @PID: FM 2.02 > Rules of the road for me. [great info deleted] > - Clean the chimney a few times during the heating season. BTW > this can be > done from inside the house if you are using a metal insulated > flue That's what I have, Metalbestos Pipe > rather than from the roof and with little mess. If you are > interested I > will relate how I do that. I'd be interested in knowing about this. Thanks much for the feedback. Lawrence --- * Origin: EARTH*Net-Host:SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE Echo (1:3641/1.502)