Subject: Re: Typical Install Costs questions

From: [email-masked] (Nick Pine)
Date: 2 Jun 1995 03:17:12 -0400

<[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>Whatever you do, do *NOT* install geothermal heating and cooling. It's
>an expensive rip-off.

YMMV.

>Those systems are difficult to find service for, and they don't last. After
>2 years, our compressor quit. We replaced it twice - $450 plus freight each
>time - and it wouldn't work for more than a month before it "froze up"
>and became worthless again.

A local company who manufacture water-source heat pumps says that this is
a common problem, caused by poor design, something to do with pressures that
are too high. Of course a water-source heat pump could literally "freeze up," 
but that's another design problem...

>Please don't make the same mistake we made. Go with a system that will work.

Seems strange to condemn all forms of geothermal heat because of your 
unfortunate experience.

Nick

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From: [email-masked] (FSmothers)
Date: 31 May 1995 12:37:00 -0400

Brae,

The California Energy Commission calculated the payback for solar domestic
water heating in Fresno, Ca. at about 99 years and has dropped the
concept.

I have investigated it for some apartments in Arizona and the paybacks
were also greater than five years.  You might want to perform a robust
analysis before consideration.  Where we are gas is cheap ($.60 per therm,
steady for some time).

Fred Smothers
[email-masked]

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 11:47:47 EDT

In article <[email-masked]>
[email-masked] (Brae Rowe) writes:
 
>So, if we do decide to restore an older home, what would be the
>various options vs costs per 1000 sq.ft. of home?

Whatever you do, do *NOT* install geothermal heating and cooling. It's
an expensive rip-off. We installed geothermal in our house. It cost a bit
more than $11,000 for a 2700-sq ft house. It did heat the house modestly
well, but it NEVER cooled the place below 80 degrees F.

The company that manufactured the damn thing won't talk to us or repair
it. We are going to have to sue them to try to recover some of our
costs.
 
Our geothermal is very energy-efficient, though - since it will not even
start, it doesn't cost us a cent to run.

Nikk Katzman
University of Kentucky
130A Tobacco & Health Research Institute
Lexington, KY 40546-0236
e-mail: [email-masked]
 
=> May I be granted the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
   Courage to change the things I can,
   And the vocal cords to gripe about it either way.

---

From: [email-masked] (Paul Bernhardt)
Date: 31 May 1995 07:48:38 GMT

Brae Rowe ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Hello All,

: I think that this is going to be a fun newsgroup.  ;-)

: in a few years, my fiance and I will be debating as to whether to buy
: a new house or gutting out an old one and restoring it to new. One of
: the things I would be considering is installing a HVAC system in the
: 'to be restored' home. I am curios to know what the typical costs are
: for such an endeavor? Based on home that does not already have
: conduits or vents, what would be the costs (not including labor, just
: hardware) per thousand square foot area for a system using an
: electrical based heat pump combined with a natural gas heating system?

A rough guess (I have been out of the loop for a while) would be about 
1500$ per 1000 square feet.

: Would the combonation of the mentioned two (which has been around for
: years) be better off with separate vents, or the same? I cannot help
: but wonder if it would be better for the heating vents to be floor
: based as opposed to the near-ceiling based ac vents. On the other
: hand, I have seen some old houses in the SE part of the US that have
: ac vents on the floor. Opinions?

While you are correct that this would be the best system, it is usually 
cost prohibitive given the benefits gained. If you are lucky in how the 
ductwork is laid out you might be able to install one of the relatively 
new variable air systems that controls each room with a separate 
thermostat which controls a damper for that room (or set of rooms). That 
would automatically adjust the system for year round, hot or cold, usage. 
Unfortunately, they can be fairly costly. Does anyone know how well these 
systems are holding up regarding maintainence?

: Also, I am considering installation (possably homemade) of a solar
: hot water system. Yes, a solar hw supply. I have heard that corrosion
: can be a problem, but this would be minimal or non-existent if made
: from pvc plumbing.

: So, if we do decide to restore an older home, what would be the
: various options vs costs per 1000 sq.ft. of home?

: I know that what I am asking is quite a lot, and certainly don't
: expect one person to answer them all, but any and all information
: would be appriciated as well as advice & opinions.

If you do get an older home make sure there is plenty of access either to 
the attic or crawlspace if you need to install or revise ductwork. It can 
save some serious bucks in labor. It will also make your installation 
much more practical.

Good Luck!