Subject: Switching to oil heat - furance advise

From: [email-masked]
Date: 6 Oct 95 11:41:49 EST

This is a three part scenario

History:
========
We are using heat pumps to heat our house and would like to change the heat 
source from electric to oil. We live in Maryland which does not make the heat
pump a good source of heat durning the colder winter months. To add to the 
problem our family room is located on a cement slab partially under ground 
maiking this room one chilly experience. The heat pumps are the new energy 
efficient types from Carrier.(approx 3years old) The house has several laysers
of floors helping to make the family room (without the thermosat) very cold.
Our electric bills are get very high durning the winter.

Possible Solution:
==================
I was talking to a Heating contractor and he recommend that we use oil forced
air heat with a water baseboard radiator heat in the family room. He said that 
we would still beable to retain the heatpumps as a second source of heating. 
The heating furnace would have a power exhaust unit (no chimney required) vented
out of the side of the house. When the outside tempature was warm enough the
heat pumps would run then when it got inefficient then the oil would take over.
Or he said that we could just run the oil all the time. The unit is a 85000btu
it would heat approx 1500sq ft area. 

Questions:
==========
How efficient are the oil burners?
Is the water radiator heat reliable with not to many problems?
Are the power vents very reliable?
Do the power vents cause the siding of the house to be covered with soot.
How much would we reduce the electric/heating bill by switching to oil?
What is the expected life of the oil furnace.
How reliable are the oil furnaces and how often do they need matenance?

Any and all comments would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Mike Whelan

---

From: Dave Nelsen <[email-masked]>
Date: 7 Oct 1995 03:39:22 GMT

I have done three heat pump to oil conversions for my company. To date we 
have nothing but praise from the homeowners. On Long Island we have the 
highest electric rates in the country so the pay back is about 2 years. 
contact a good full service oil company for an estimate as they will give 
you a good price (they want you as a coustomer). also conntact PMAA 
at703-351-8000 and ask how to contact OMA whick is the Oil Heat 
Manufactures Assocation. They can help you with equipment selection. Send 
me an E-mail if I can be of any futher help. Dave

---

From: Paul Liepe <[email-masked]>
Date: 8 Oct 1995 23:30:00 GMT

Mike,

I'm not sure you've thought all the way through your problem.  Let's try 
to look at your issues and questions one at a time.

1.  Air source heat pumps are a good source of heat at all but the 
coldest of times.  They are used successfully throughout the country.  If 
you have high bills, its probably because you are using backup resistance 
heat too much of the time.  (This implies a leaky house or, more likely, 
leaky ducts.)

2.  Your "underground" room should actually be warmer because the earth 
is generally warmer than the air.  Below the first few feet, the earth 
temperature in your area is between 50 and 55 degrees.  The outside air 
gets colder, no?

3.  What a surprise that an oil dealer would suggest an oil burner to 
solve your problem!  What he's really saying by suggesting the addition 
of baseboard radiation is that there isn't enough heat getting to your 
family room.  If this is true, its not the fault of the heat pump, but 
rather the air distribution system.

4.  In my experience, more than 80 percent of the comfort problems with 
any ducted heating system is in the duct work.  The most likely 
cause of the problem is a leak in the ducts leading to that room -- which 
can actually cause your system to draw-in cold outside air.  Before you 
spend any big money, you should have the ducts checked either with a 
DuctBlaster or with a blower door test.  Your utility should be able to 
help with this.  (The blower door test can also locate leaks in your 
house which may be the cause of your high bill complaint.  Even new 
houses can be very leaky.)

5.  If the ducts are in good shape, you probably want an expert at duct 
design to look at your house.  Perhaps, the ducts to that room are 
undersized, or maybe there's no return air duct.  Again, its unlikely 
that the heat pumps that are the problem.

6.  There's nothing wrong with oil furnaces if you don't mind being 
dependent on someone to deliver the fuel.  But, if you go that way, 
please be sure to get a good carbon monoxide detector and an additional 
smoke alarm. Remember that your introducing combustion which can cause 
both fire and deadly gases.

If I can help you find good testers or contractors in your area, please 
let me know.

---

From: [email-masked] (Gallagher - Sean J.)
Date: 9 Oct 1995 15:54:23 GMT

Paul Liepe ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Mike,

...

: 2.  Your "underground" room should actually be warmer because the earth 
: is generally warmer than the air.  Below the first few feet, the earth 
: temperature in your area is between 50 and 55 degrees.  The outside air 
: gets colder, no?

There still a delta T between the 55 F slab and the 70 F room.  We have a 
similar room in our house which is a split level, and I find a big problem 
being the fact the warm air rises up to the kitchen and the cool air 
falls.  I guess split levels inherently have this problem and a slab 
floor in the family room makes it all the worse.  Our solution has been 
to keep a fire going in the wood stove in that room when it's cold.  Nothing 
like radiant heat to counteract the stratification and cold floor.  Wood is 
alot of work tho, so hydronic baseboard is a more elegant solution, altho 
expensive.

...

: 4.  In my experience, more than 80 percent of the comfort problems with 
: any ducted heating system is in the duct work.  The most likely 
: cause of the problem is a leak in the ducts leading to that room -- which 
: can actually cause your system to draw-in cold outside air.  Before you 
: spend any big money, you should have the ducts checked either with a 
: DuctBlaster or with a blower door test.  Your utility should be able to 
: help with this.  (The blower door test can also locate leaks in your 
: house which may be the cause of your high bill complaint.  Even new 
: houses can be very leaky.)

Perhaps, but if Mike has a stratification problem like me, the only way 
to use the forced air system to maintain 70 F in the family room is to 
jack up the stat (upstairs in my house) and overheat the upstairs.  Gets 
pretty wasteful.  Running the circulating fan continuously can help, but 
the room can still feel cool.  I find supplemental radiant heat for this 
room to be trick.

my $0.02

-- Sean Gallagher -- [email-masked]