Subject: reply to Nick Pine

From: [email-masked] (Newton T. Ellison)
Date: 2 Apr 1995 16:57:15 GMT

Newsgroups: g,news.announce.newusers
Subject: response to Nick Pine
Summary: alt.energy.renewable
Followup-To:alt.energy.renewable 
Distribution: world.alt.energy.renewable
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Keywords:alt.energy.renewable 
With respect, I vote *no* to Nick Pine's call to break up the old
alt.energy.renewable gang, to enable a forum about photovoltaics 
only. I am new to the internet process, but an old hand at advocating 
renewables, especially solar heat to drive hot water, space heating 
and absorption a/c, using natural gas, propane, whatever, as a backup.
   I believe we need a forum as wide as this. There are many ways 
that a sustainable human, etc, civilization on this nice little planet
can happen. The many technologies that will be in the new "mix" are 
already known, but mostly political factors keep the some of them from 
being implemented.
   I expect to be "flamed," so here's my final solution, after we 
replace most of our electricity-guzzling a/c compressors, a.k.a. "heat 
pumps" with solar assisted absorption refrigeration.
   We need to downsize human individuals, starting with offering large 
size people incentives *not* to reproduce so much. It would take 
thousands of years, but a human race with individuals, say, six inches
tall, and individual fauna, flora and automobiles in proportion would 
be nice, and there could be a lot more of us.
   Comments?         [email-masked]

---

From: Lee Butler <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:52:12 GMT

>Dear Harry C......
>     Thanks for response. Maybe somebody did figure out an
>"optimum" human size. I picked 6" arbitrarily. Perhaps we
>need an interim target.  Say, four ft. David Robinson
>notwithstanding, we don't really need too many more seven
>footers, do we?
>
>   What do you think about flatplate collectors, large
>undergroundtank water storage, absorption a/c assisted by natural
>or other gas, hydronic loop space heat & water out of the same
>storage as needed. PVs for lights and small elec. Ethanol for cars.
>More mass transit. Vegetarianism. Acoustic guitars. Bicycles.
>Proportional representation.
>Newton Trey Ellison       210.227.9769
>
Excellent suggestions, however, a much more seriou problem is the mass
denial by most white male people. Consider.....Alvin Toffler explains what
is ahhpening better than I can, however,

There is a crisis of confidence in hard science in the world today.
President Clinton just announced today that the present administration
leadership is planning to cut fifty five thousand jobs (55,000) from the
space program. Good. We should not be spending money to get into space when
there is so much to do here on the ground. We are also wittnessing the end
of another respected icon of our civilization, MIT, the brain trust, which
along with Harvard, has dominated the scientific and business decisions
since the founding of America.

I think it is time to point out that this group of leaders dropped the
atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasakki near the end of world war two. We
know they will use the bomb to destory helpless citizens, in order to bring
their political leaders to their knees. We have seen them destory Kuait and
Nicaraga. They are behind the conflict in Israel, northern Ireland, Tibet,
Bosnia, and the killing which is going on in our own country.

These intellectuals, who can condemn mass populations to death, simply
because of the remarks of one man, their unfortunate leader, who has had
thecourage to speak his own mind about right and wrong in the world and
disagree with the Harvard-MIT brain trust.

 It is a known fact that all killing is wrong. Especially institutionalized
killing and yet our country continues to operate a secret covert operation,
all over the world to dominate and control everything.

alpha lee

Lee Porter Butler
620 Biscayne Drive
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
407-659-7656

Re: reply to Nick Pine