Subject: Re: MRA free energy hobby project!

From: [email-masked] (Nick Pine)
Date: 17 Apr 1995 05:11:18 -0400

DaveHatunen <[email-masked]> wrote:

A very nice evaluation of an MRA device... 

I think I'm beginning to understand these things. I wonder how they can be
useful. How about loosely coupling 1 to 3 60 Hz MRAs to the output windings
of an automobile alternator (without the diodes), connected to a windmill, as
an energy source, and connecting the MRA output to the 60 Hz power grid,
somehow, with suitable safety circuitry? It seems to me that the windmill
might be able to synchronize at multiple rotational speeds this way, and still
provide a 60 Hz output at a high voltage...

Nick

---

From: [email-masked] (Nick Pine)
Date: 18 Apr 1995 04:13:56 -0400

Harry H Conover <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Nick Pine ([email-masked]) wrote:
 
>: I think I'm beginning to understand these things. I wonder how they can be
>: useful...
 
>Nick, wouldn't a Trace Inverter  be  better choice for this applicaton than 
>using a previously discredited MRA? ^---error1              error2--^
   ^---error3 

Trace inverters seem pretty complicated for this task, and an MRA
would seem to have some multiple rotational speed synchronization 
and load matching potential that is not in the Trace...

And Trace as a company seems leery of synchronous utility interfaces,
for political or business reasons, I guess... ("Yes, our box could
operate in that mode, but we don't want to irritate the utilities.")

>Remember, MRA is already demonstrated to be an energy sink without 
>any obvious useful function or application, not an energy source. 

Oh, I forgot. But what does that have to do with the price of cheese?
Previously discredited tools can be useful too, in new applications.
I hesitate to mention a certain architect, enamored of eternal harmonies.

Jeez Harry, I wish you would act less like an ignorant, illiterate,
backward-thinking, incorrigible curmudgeon, and more like me... :-)

Nick

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From: [email-masked] (Nick Pine)
Date: 18 Apr 1995 13:18:28 -0400

Harry H Conover <[email-masked]> wrote:
>: Trace inverters seem pretty complicated for this task, and an MRA
>: would seem to have some multiple rotational speed synchronization 
>: and load matching potential that is not in the Trace...
>
>Seems like an appules and orgis comparison to me, Nick.  I suspekt
>that yur reeding mor sophistication into MRA curkuts then most of
>us elektronics and injuneering types do.

As I understand it, these things are resonant circuits, and if you are
somehow able to attach the output of a 60 Hz version to a power line,
and chop the low voltage alternator output, and loosely couple it to
the MRA input, you could end up with a windmill that would have a
reasonably high effective output voltage, as a fairly pure sine wave,
loosely phase locked to the chopping frequency. If the windmill
rotational speed changed a bit, and the chopping freq were fairly high
compared to 60 Hz and the rotational speed, it seems possible that one
could lock to a new, slightly different rotational speed. So this
would be a sort of synchronous system, with highish multiply/divide ratios
that would change as the windspeed changed. I'm just kinda rambling here.
Does this make sense at all? I don't have a detailed plan, or even a clear
idea of how this might work, and I don't really give a hoot about all this,
but sometimes these crude ideas work out nicely...

I'd say there is some potential. Something further to explore. I do have
a couple of EE degrees, and 25 years of experience as an engineer, so
I can speak ex-catheter on this particular hunch, if I'm sitting down...

>: And Trace as a company seems leery of synchronous utility interfaces,
>: for political or business reasons, I guess... ("Yes, our box could
>: operate in that mode, but we don't want to irritate the utilities.")

That's an actual quote from a Trace employee, BTW...

>Posubly tru, but bare in mind that wen you use powur lines for electrical
>sinks and not (as they were intenduded) sorces, you exxtend the risk
>and ramufucatons of your mistukes and inncompetunce from yur locul domaan
>to the greatur comunety, with a potental imppact on pubblic safty.
>This is wy injuneers dooring this kind of theeng are licunsed.

I can relate to that. But PEs do a lot of silly things too, and
sometimes they just try to make their lives simple, vs designing
inspired cool systems... The last time I employed a PE was when a house
I owned had a fire, and the building inspector (who had a high-school
education) refused to let me reconstruct it as it had stood for the
last hundred years. So I did a bunch of beam strength calculations,
and got a PE to stamp a dwg, and everyone ended up happy, altho one of
us was a tad poorer. I guess bribing the building inspector might have
been cheaper, and equally safe, from a stuctural point of view :-)

Of course there are people who also believe that one should not do
high-temperature experimental sewage treatment in the attic, that it
makes more sense for licenced professionals to treat sewage in 50 million
dollar treatment plants, connected to every house in the county by pipes
and pumps and sewage blenders. I do think that certain architect would agree
with me that there are alternatives to this sort of over-centralization,
were he to realize that we are on the same side here. 

I just took a PE review course, BTW, and intended to take the exam last
weekend, but the state licensing board had a fire that apparently destroyed
all their EIT records, so I have to somehow go prove that I passed that test
10 years ago... Yuck.

>: >Remember, MRA is already demonstrated to be an energy sink without 
>: >any obvious useful function or application, not an energy source. 
>
>: Oh, I forgot. But what does that have to do with the price of cheese?
>: Previously discredited tools can be useful too, in new applications.
>: I hesitate to mention a certain architect, enamored of eternal harmonies.
>
>Well Nick, acktully, I would mor expekt that certun arketek to champiun the
>MRA klugge than suphistikated persuns like you and I.  :-)

Perhaps if it had a convective loop, or a gravity battery, certain
cylindrical seers would so champeen it.
 
>: Jeez Harry, I wish you would act less like an ignorant, illiterate,
>: backward-thinking, incorrigible curmudgeon, and more like me... :-)
>
>Wurken on it, Nick!  Unfortunetally, my resurch on combinin expoxy with
>Capt. Krunch cerual to prodooce new, strngg, lite strukturel materieels 
>eats intu my avalable time.  Stil, I'm tryun!

Sounds good, Harry. Sounds a bit like Bucky's patented "stockade system."

Have you been using a strange spell-checker lately? Or perhaps a Griz filter?
 
Nick