Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 +---------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | NN NN AAAA MM MM VV VV EEEEEEE TTTTTTTT | | NNN NN AA AA MMM MMM VV VV EE TT | | NN N NN AA AA MM M M MM VV VV EE TT | | NN N NN AA AA MM M MM VV VV EE TT | | NN N NN AAAAAAAA MM MM VV VV EEEEE TT | | NN N NN AA AA MM MM VV VV EE TT | | NN NNN AA AA MM MM V V EE TT | | NN NN AA AA MM MM VVV EEEEEEE TT | | | | The International Newsletter for Vietnam Veterans | +---------------------------------------------------------------+ Editor in Chief: Todd Looney Assistant Editor: G. Joseph Peck | NAM VET is a special )| electronic newsletter dedicated to _+|__|_ * VIETNAM |--- --| VETERANS * around the ------------------------=========================== world and \_______________________________________________) provided as a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ service to participants in the International Vietnam Veterans Echo Con- ference (IVVEC) available on many FidoNet (tm) bulletin boards throughout the United States, Europe, Australia, and Canada. _ Not all of the articles appearing in here | are written by participants in the IVVEC, but NAM VET | is very much an electronic newsletter by, -----/_\----- of, and for Vietnam veterans, their -O==============< : >==============O- friends, wives, and lovers. ( ) (...) ( ) If you are a veteran or anyone else wishing to express yourself concerning our Nation's Vietnam or other related experience, you are invited to submit material for publication to the Vietnam Veterans Valhalla (*DOWN*), VETLink #1 (321/203), or to any BBS carrying IVVEC whose sysop can forward your work from there. NAM VET is published | monthly by Vietnam Veterans Valhalla and/or VETLink #1. | The views expressed are not necessarily those of the NAM VET, | its staff, or any of its volunteers. |____====________ The newsletter is ||__________}____)==================|) made up of =============---------------------===_____ articles and items /| | | | |\\from other newsletters \________|__________|_________|_________|/ and a variety of \\(O)___(O)___(O)___(O)___(O)___(O)// other sources We are not responsible for the content of this information nor are any of the above-mentioned parties. ____________ ======= _________________/|_____... | | " === |_______________| |-----::: |._ - " ) |_|___| Duplication and/or distribution is / / |___| permitted for noncommercial purposes only For other /_/use, contact: Todd Looney at (408) 947-7668 - or - G. Joseph Peck at (413) 442-1660 ================================================================= T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S 1. EDITORIALS Alive and Kicking ....................................... 1 A certain magic ......................................... 3 They haven't forgotten FREEDOM ... or YOU!!! ............ 5 2. AMERICAN PRISONERS Vets in Prison .......................................... 6 3. MIA/POW POW's - What's to be done? .............................. 12 Monk Sights POW's! ...................................... 20 Hearts n' Minds remember... ............................. 22 4. CURRENT HOT ISSUES IVVEC Talks about our flag... ........................... 23 Stars and Stripes ....................................... 33 Bush and the Flag ....................................... 45 5. MEMORIES The White Horse ......................................... 46 A light in the storm .................................... 47 Two Walls ............................................... 49 6. GENERAL ARTICLES Going Back .............................................. 52 A Chance to Understand .................................. 57 7. AGENT ORANGE Q&A Re: Agent Orange Payment Program ................... 60 1989 Schedule of the Mini-Wall .......................... 63 Finally Here!!! ......................................... 64 8. ELECTRONIC VETS ........................................................ 65 9. Subscribe Now! Subscription Form ....................................... 71 10. Lest we not forget ........................................................ 72 NAM VET Newsletter Page i Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= E D I T O R I A L S ================================================================= Alive and Kicking By: Todd Looney Vietnam Veterans' Valhalla 28 Cecil Avenue Suite 179 San Jose, CA 95128 I'm sorry it's been so long since I've made contact with all of you. My thanks to Joe Peck for keeping track of the NAM VET as well as moderating the IVVEC during my absence. Things could not get any more hectic than they have been during the past few months, but it looks like things are going to be settling down soon and I'll be back in the midst of it all with you again. Things were bad enough with all the legal expenses incurred (we are still $3,000 in the hole), and to top it off, the company I was working with folded up and laid everyone off a couple weeks ago. I have since found a new job in Sunnyvale, California. One of the things my boss wants to do here is set up a BBS for our company, which will allow me to get online with the IVVEC and other veteran-related conferences again. I should be up as MICROPLUS in the FidoNet nodelist by the time you read this, and I'll get hooked into the echo's again as a #1 priority. The Valhalla will not be up and running for another couple of months, until I can get out from under the deluge of past-due bills which have nearly drowned us since all of this has started. When I do get things running again, I'll try my best to get the old number reinstated. Hang in there. The new position I've taken as a CAD Systems Sales Engineer at MicroPlus Systems Technologies has presented some new twists to life that I would like to share with you this month. I've been working with the Vietnamese community here in San Jose, California for about three years off and on. The motivating factor for doing that was the same as for my starting the Vietnam Veterans' Valhalla - to try and help myself understand my own feelings through working with others. The owners of MicroPlus are both Vietnamese, having left the country in 1954 when the French were there fighting the Viet Mien. Our receptionist left Saigon in 1975 at the age of three, and our Senior Technician left at the age of 24 in 1985. When I was first hired here they were full of questions about my service in Vietnam and of course I had plenty of questions about them, and how they got here. Mai, our receptionist, remembers very little, but can recall the countless stories told her by her parents and brothers who were considerably older when they made the decision to leave Saigon. Her father moved the family during the night in February 1975 to the Da Nang area where they thought they could get help from the American forces there. Her father, having been employed at MACV in Saigon, would certainly have been killed by the VC or North Vietnamese Army had he stayed in Vietnam after the fall of the South. Mai's family could not get transportation immediately from the US forces stationed around the coastal area so they bought passage along with 38 other refugees aboard a boat designed to carry only 10. They had very little to eat and almost no water, yet survived off the coast of Vietnam for NAM VET Newsletter Page 1 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 nearly three weeks before being rescued by a US Navy warship. Lim, our Senior Technician here, recounted the two month-long journey on foot he and his brother made across Vietnam from Camh Rhan Bay to the Thai border, and the harrowing escape they made across the river in the dead of night trying to avoid detection by the patrolling Vietnamese army. He told me of the years of "re- education" many of his older family members were forced to endure, and how they consistently told him they would never kowtow to the Communist leaders of their country. His whole family seemed to work toward one end - the day Lim and his younger brother could escape to the freedom of the United States. He says his family was very disappointed that the Americans left their country in such a mess, but they understood that there was little else that could have been done because of our (USA) own government and the unrest within our own country. He told me that they never felt resentful though, knowing that the US had done what it could at the time against the VC and the North. He is thankful to finally be here, and now is working to get the rest of his family out of Vietnam. Working for Bui and Hien, the owners of MicroPlus, has renewed my faith in man to some extent in that they have struggled to take advantage of the opportunities offered *every* American in this country. They cannot understand why more Americans don't take advantage of what is available for them, but are thankful to be here and are very dedicated to America and its people. There are a number of questions I had for them as well - questions I have never been able to ask because of the difference in cultures, and not wanting to offend or give the wrong impression. Bui and his wife have been very open with their answers and have filled a gap I never knew even existed. If you ever have an opportunity such as the one I have here, I suggest you take it. It's a new experience to be so close to a Vietnamese-American, and I am thankful to have the opportunities it affords in helping me not only to understand what makes *them* tick, but what makes *me* tick as well. Thanks to all of you again for your support in the past, and to those of you who hound Joe for the latest report on what's been going on in my life. I'll be back in the echo soon if not by the time you read this. Until then, Ciao! Todd NAM VET Newsletter Page 2 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 A certain magic by: G. Joseph Peck Assistant Editor, NAM VET Sysop - VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA (413-443-6313) FidoNet 1:321/203 There's a certain magic that comes upon you when you remember what George Bush said when he began his term as our President. "If we forget where we came from, we won't know who we are..." I guess you might say that the "magic" caught me LAST month as I began writing my editorial. I had just come back from our Washington, DC Memorial - The Wall - wrestling again with "the guilty's" and too quickly tried to put something together for our readers. Oh, the thoughts were there - and I really tried my best to capture them but it was as though through a prism I siezed and gave them form on paper (er... in ascii characters). They just didn't seem COMPLETE... To top it all off, I had to learn again how to put this thing together like Todd does... Asking myself constantly "Who am I" I began to look for articles n' stuff for this issue, topic ideas. When my local VVA Chapter asked me to write an editorial for them describing my trip to The Wall, I began to look a little deeper - and the result was "Two Walls", which you'll find further on in this issue. Since July 4th is *THE* day we, as Americans, celebrate our independence, the focus I had chosen for this issue was, basically, our heritage... "Where we came from - and who we are" - Jewish, Black, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican and Canadian veterans; the WHY of incarcerated veterans; better, more definitive answers to the problem of Agent Orange - and how to offer service to the surviving families of deceased Agent Orange veterans (if you know of any, please - please - please, get their name into the Agent Orange registry!!!); and so on and on... As deadline time drew nearer and nearer, I saw comments in IVVEC about how our conversations had drifted away from what they used to be to more pragmatic topics of TODAY; missing, it seemed, were the brother-to-brother conversations and comraderie we often shared there - the "newbie's" on the block, with their questions and comments, were unknowingly fragging our "safe place" - but their "fragging" shouldn't have been able to occur if our place would have been rebuilding the strength within us. WHAT was the common denominator, the or two or three things that could bring us back a little closer again? And then... the Supreme Court and their ruling on the Flag. Now THERE's some controversy! It hasn't really been a quiet month in IVVEC - nor at my office! Did you know: A new court will be established effective September 1, 1989 to hear appeals from the Board of Veterans' Appeal's decisions? If you have been appealing and appealing and NAM VET Newsletter Page 3 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 appealing your VA Claim without results you're satisfied with and you feel certain the "evidence of record" substantiates your claim, your attorney can now argue your case before this court. Remember, though, there will be NO opportunity to introduce any NEW evidence or testimony - the case must be argued from the record as it exists. Also, if you chose this level of appeal, you cannot get your political representatives to intercede in/on your behalf because of the separation of powers. I will keep you updated as more details become available. I'm sure many of you noticed that Todd's back and should be back on-line in the very near future!!! I know we all look forward to having him back ... Can you visit a hospitalized veteran this month? July and August, here in the east anyway, are perfect times to bring a picnic basket to a VA hospital and ask for a veteran to share it with you... PERFECT times... Or how about a visit to an incarcerated veteran - or just a short note? How about the hospitalized or incarcerated veterans' family? Are they doing okay? Is there any help you can be to them? If you have time during the upcoming month, think you could write up your favorite Nam-time or military-time story and get it up to us? These "mad-minutes" are 'bout burnin' both Todd n' me out... 'til next month... Show a brother or sister veteran that YOU care!!! Ci'ao for Ni'ao - Joe - NAM VET Newsletter Page 4 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX \ \ \ \ \XXXX XXXXX XXXXX.::::::::::::::.XXXXX INCARCERATED XXXX XXXXX XXXXX --------- XXXXX \ \ \ \ \ \ \XXXX XXXXX .XXXXX W W I I XXXXX. VETERANS \ \XXXX XXXXX ::XXXXX --------- XXXXX::. \ \ \ \ XXXX XXXXX :::XXXXX ------------- XXXXX:::. 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XXXX XXXXX.::' :: XXXXX: PREPARED TO XXXXX .'' ''.. XXXX XXXXX::' :: XXXXX`: FIGHT XXXXX.' '.XXXX XXXXX' :: XXXXX ``. XXXXX XXXX XXXXX '' XXXXX PREPARED TO XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX DIE ...'XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX `...' XXXXX XXXX XXXXX `..' XXXXX .' XXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX /\ .' .' XXXX XXXXX /\ \ . . XXXX XXXXX / \ \...' `. .' XXXX XXXXX / NOT PREPARED TO BE DESERTED XXXX XXXXX / .'.' . .`.' XXXX XXXXX / ~ | : : : . XXXX XXXXX / |`. : : . .__________ XXXX XXXXX / ~ ~ ||.` ` : || \ / XXXX XXXXX / WRITE OR VISIT AN INCARCERATED VETERAN SOON ! XXXX XXXXX / ~ || . .'. / / XXXX XXXXX/ ~ ~ ~|| ||/ / XXXX XXXXX ~ ~ ~ || || / XXXX XXXXX || || / XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX \_________XXXXX________|| XgjpX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX NAM VET Newsletter Page 5 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= A M E R I C A N P R I S O N E R S ================================================================= US Department of Justice Report VETS IN PRISON US Dept of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin Vets in Prison ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 10-10-78, The Bureau of Justice Statistics, then the Nat'l Criminal Justice Information and Statistics Service (NCJISS) of the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, rec'd a Presidential directive to collect information on incarcerated vets. Nothing was known then about Vietnam vets. Nothing was known then about Vietnam vets in prison. Estimates of their numbers varied widely. Information about the circumstances of their confinement was virtually non-existent. The unique nature of the war in Vietnam and the controversy surrounding it produced a very different homecoming for Vietnam vets than for vets of earlier conflicts. Many experienced serious adjustment difficulties leading, it was felt, to a greater likelihood of incarceration. Specific information on incarcerated vets was needed to develop programs and policies shaped to their circumstances. In response to the Presidential directive, NCJISS included a series of questions on military service and vets' status in its 2d quinquennial Survey of Inmates of State Correctional Facilities. This survey and its companion Census off State Correctional Facilities were conducted in 11-79 for NCJISS by the US Bureau of the Census. The survey, which consisted of personal interviews with a stratified random sample of 12,000 prisoners in State facilities across the country, gathered information on the present offense and length of sentence, criminal history, drug and alcohol history, personal and family characteristics, employment, education, and income. The Census of State Correctional Facilities was conducted through mail questionnaires for all facilities operated by State depts of corrections it measured inmate population by sex, race and ethnicity, physical conditions of the facility including degree of security, capacity and overcrowding, prison staff, health care and inmate programs. This bulletin is the 1st presentation of data from these 2 sources. Future bulletins will cover other topics from the 1979 prison census and inmate survey. Benjamin H Renshaw III, Acting Director ----------------------------------------------------------------- In 11-79, about 1/4th of all State prisoners were vets of military service. [In 4-80, Federal prisons housed 4,883 vets representing 1 of every 5 Federal prisoners, but the era in which they served is not available.] Among the total of 65,500 vets in such prisons-- > 19,500 served in the pre-Vietnam era. NAM VET Newsletter Page 6 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 > 39,500 served in the Vietnam era (8-64 to 7-75); of this number, only 13,000 had been on duty in Southeast Asia [SEA]. > 6,000 served in the post-Vietnam era; of these, 1,200 were serving time for a crime committed while in the service. Vets in State prisons at that time were as well educated as vets in the general population, but they were much more likely to have received a less-than-honorable discharge. Typically, they had been convicted of a violent crime and were serving a lengthy sentence. At the time of the offense for which they were convicted, more than a 1/4th were under the influence of drugs, but more than 1/2 had been drinking. Vietnam vets: There has been a special interest in the number and characteristics of Vietnam vets who are in prison. Data from the survey can only partially address these topics. The survey was a snapshot at a moment of time, 11-79. At that moment, the median age of Vietnam vets in prison was 28, and they had been out of the service for an average of 8 years. It is impossible to know how many Vietnam era vets were imprisoned and released before the survey took place. Similarly, Some vets have entered prison since the survey, but their numbers are probably not as large as those who served time prior to the survey, because Vietnam-era vets are beginning to leave the age groups from which prison populations are primarily drawn. At the time of the survey, Vietnam-era vets who served in SEA made up less than 5% of the inmates of State prisons. Only about a 1/3d of the prisoners who were vets of the Vietnam era actually saw duty in SEA, a smaller proportion than in the general population. This is surprising since it had been assumed that this group would have felt most acutely the difficulties of transition to civilian life. Vet characteristics: On the whole, vets were less likely than non-vets to be in prison. [Comparative data for Vets in the US population are derived from the US Vets Administration, 1979 Annual Report.] This was true for all pre-Vietnam and Vietnam-era vets over age 25. Only among inmates under 25 did vets make up a higher proportion than they did in the same age group in the general population. Even so, vets made up only 13% of these younger prisoners. 5 of every 9 of the younger vets in prison served during the Vietnam era; the other 4 served later. The younger vets from the Vietnam era were quite young--under 21--during that era. At the time of the survey, the age ranges of the 3 imprisoned vet groups overlapped somewhat, but their average ages were quite different. The median age for-- > Pre-Vietnam vets was 45, which is close to the median age (48) of all vets and of all Korean War vets > Vietnam-era vets was 28, closest to that of non-vet inmates > Post-Vietnam vets (all volunteers) was 22. Compared to other vets in State prisons, pre-Vietnam vets were-- > Less likely to have graduated from high school > More likely to have been incarcerated previously NAM VET Newsletter Page 7 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 > Likely to have been serving a longer sentence > More likely to have been separated or divorced. Each of these factors is primarily a function of their greater age. Compared to pre-Vietnam vets in State prisons, Vietnam and post- Vietnam vets were-- > Less likely ever to have married > More likely to have used drugs Education: Regardless of age, as a group vets in prison share many traits. They also share most of these traits with non-vets. A striking exception is education. Vets in prison are much better educated that non-vet prisoners. To some extent, this is a function of age, but it also reflects the educational entry requirements of the military services, Among State prisoners, 60% of all non-vets have completed high school. Among post-Vietnam vets, who on the average were 4 years younger than the non-vets, 55% had completed high school. Vets in prison are much better educated as vets who are not in prison. The median educational attainment of vets in prison was 12.3 years; that of vets outside prison was 12.6 years. Minorities: Among non-vets in prison, minority groups were highly over- represented vets in prison were much less so. About 50% of the non-vets but only 33% of the vets were black. About 10 percent of the non-vets but only 7% of the vets were Hispanic. (Among Vietnam-era vets, blacks and whites were equally likely to have served in SEA.) Type of discharge from service: In the way they left military service, vets in prison parted dramatically from vets in the general population. More than 90% of all servicemen receive an honorable discharge. This was true for only 50% of the vets in prison. Roughly 40% of vets in State prisons received less-than-honorable discharges, but for those who served in SEA the percentage was 30. The large number of less-than-honorable discharges among vets in prison was undoubtedly related to their criminal history while in the military. A 4th of the vets were serving or had previously served time for an offense committed in the military. A 1/5th of the post-Vietnam vets were currently serving time for a crime committed in the military. Vietnam-era vets who were on duty in SEA were no more likely than other vets to have been sentenced for a crime committed in the military. Pre-Arrest income: The high rate of less-than-honorable discharges plus the substantial minority to come out of the service with a conviction surely added to the employment difficulties experienced by vets prior to incarceration. About 14% of the vets reported no income for the year prior to their arrest. Among those who did have an income, it averaged $7,861, somewhat more than the pre-arrest NAM VET Newsletter Page 8 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 income of non-vets but well below the median income of all males ($10,972). Job history: A 1/4th of the vets in prison were without a job at the time of arrest. Well over 1/2 of this group (but 3/4ths of the pre-Vietnam vets) were not even looking for work. It is not known whether the large number not even looking for work had quit out of discouragement, were unable to work, or were engaged in illegal activities. The 1979 unemployment rate for vets in the general population was 3.4%, but this comparison is quite rough because joblessness at time of arrest cannot be translated into an unemployment rate in the conventional of the term; the vets in prison were arrested at various times over a span of many years. Nevertheless, these vets had been loosely attached to the job economy. Crimes: Most vets in State prisons were convicted of a violent crime. In this, they resembled non-vets. A violent crime was the principal offense of 60% of all inmates regardless of vet status. A 1/3d of both vets and non-vets were in prison for a property crime. Drug and public order offenses each were the chief crime of 5% of both groups. Among specific crimes, vets were more likely than non-vets to have been convicted of murder, rape, or assault but less likely to have been convicted of robbery or burglary. White vets were more likely than white non-vets to be serving time for a violent offense (57% vs. 49%). Vet status made no difference for blacks; 2/3ds of both groups had been convicted of a violent crime. White vets appeared to have been slightly less likely than white non-vets to have committed a drug offense, but there was no apparent difference among blacks. The same proportions of white and black vets were serving time for a public order offense. Era of service played little part in the type of crime for which vets were serving. In all 3 groups, the proportion convicted of violent crime was similar. However, post-Vietnam vets were more likely than other vets to have committed a property crime and less likely to have committed a drug offense. Sentences: As a group, vets were serving longer terms than non-vets. Once more, the difference is probably due to their relatively older years. Older prisoners tend to be serving longer sentences because those long sentences have held them in prison while persons their age with shorter sentences have done their time and been released. To a limited extent, this same phenomenon Shows up in the pattern of life-in-prison sentences. About 12% of the Vietnam-era vets, 17% of the pre-Vietnam vets, but only 2% of the post-Vietnam vets were serving life sentences. Criminal careers: There were no major differences in the criminal careers of vets in the 3 eras: > A 1/4th of all vets had committed a crime while in the service, > About a 4th of e@ch group had served time before they entered NAM VET Newsletter Page 9 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 the service, but in some cases the crime was a misdemeanor and the sentence was served in jail rather than prison. > A 1/3d of all imprisoned vets had been on probation at least once before age 20. The percentages for each group were pre-Vietnam 17, Vietnam 36, and post-Vietnam 45. Prior incarceration: As another consequence of vets' age differences, the following had been incarcerated prior to their current sentence: > 50% of the post-Vietnam vets > 60% of the Vietnam-era vets > 75% of the pre-Vietnam vets. Prior incarceration: Compared with non-vet prisoners, vets in prison were slightly less prone to drug abuse and slightly more prone to alcohol abuse: > About 75% of the vets and 80% of the non-vets had used some drug at least once in their lifetime. > About 1/2 the vets and somewhat more than 1/2 the non-vets (48 vs. 56%) had used drugs regularly (at least once a week). > A 1/5th of each group had used heroin regularly. However, vets were less likely than non-vets to have been under the influence of drugs at the time of their offense. Among State prisoners, Vietnam-era and post-Vietnam vets were far more likely to have used drugs than pre-Vietnam vets, who for the most part came of age before the advent of the drug culture. A large majority of the Vietnam-era and post-Vietnam vets used marijuana, but 25% of the Vietnam-era vets used heroin vs. only 10% of the post-Vietnam vets. Vietnam-era vets who served in SEA were only slightly more likely to have used heroin than other Vietnam-era vets. All in all, a 1/4th of the Vietnam-era vets, a 1/5th of the non-vets, and a 1/10th of the vets of other eras had used heroin regularly at some point in their lives but not necessarily while in the service. A 4th of all vets in State prisons, including a 1/3d of Vietnam- vet, had developed a drug or alcohol problem while in the service. Most of these had served during or after the Vietnam era. 1/2 developed a drug problem, 1/3d developed an alcohol problem, and a 1/6th had problems with both drugs and alcohol. Drugs played a more important role in the lives of non-vets than of vets, but the reverse was true for alcohol. This held up even for the post-Vietnam vets, who on the average are younger than the non-vets. About 40% of the post-Vietnam-era vets, 33% of the Vietnam era vets, and 25% of the pre-Vietnam-era vets reported themselves to have been heavy daily drinkers. non-vets were no more likely than pre-Vietnam vets to be heavy drinkers. Vietnam- era vets stationed in SEA drank no more heavily than others who served during that era. Fully 1/2 of all vets had been drinking just prior to their crime. The comparable figure for non-vets was only slightly less. Branch of service: Among all vets in State prisons, 59% had been in the Army, 18% in the Marine Corps, 14% in the Navy, 9% in the Air Force, and a small number in the Coast Guard. Former Marines were the most likely to have served during the Vietnam era and to have been in the combat zone. NAM VET Newsletter Page 10 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Service-related disability: About a 1/10th of all vets in State prisons had been officially recognized by the Vets Administration as having a service-related disability. Vets who had served in SEA were more likely than the other imprisoned vets to be disabled. Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletins are prepared principally by the staff of the Bureau. Carol B Kalish, chief of policy analysis, edits the bulletins. Marilyn Marbrook, head of the Bureau publications unit, administers their publication, assisted by Julie A. Ferguson. This bulletin is based on material developed by Mimi Cantwell and Wilfred Masamura, both of the Bureau of the Census. 11-81, NCJ-79232 To obtain copies of reports or to be added to the bulletin mailing list, write to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, Washng'tn, D.C. 20531 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Table 1: Number and% of vets in State prisons, by era of service, 1979 Number % Total 274,564 100.0 Vets 65,283 23.7 V'nam-era 39,342 14.3 Served in SEA 12,857 4.7 Served elsewhere 26,385 9.6 Pre-V'nam-era 19,498 7.1 Post-V'nam-era 8,008 2.2 Non-vets 208,719 76.O Not avaiIable 562 0.2 -------------------------------------------------------------- Table 2. Vets and non-vets in State prisons, by % in each group with specified characteristic and by age and sentence length, 1979 Pre-V'nam V'nam Post-V'nam Characteristic vets vets vets Non-vets Black 28 35 35 52 Hispanic 7 7 7 10 Not working at time of arrest 24 26 30 31 Convicted of vlolent orime 61 60 52 57 Regular heroin user 13 26 10 22 Heavy daily drinker 27 33 41 26 Less than honorable discharge 39 46 59 N/A Disabled 10 10 2 N/A Age (median years) 45.3 28.5 22.1 26.4 Max sentence (median years) 11.5 10.l 7.8 8.4 NAM VET Newsletter Page 11 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= M I A / P O W ================================================================= THE POW QUESTION - WHAT IS TO BE DONE? Input by: TOM WIEBER So. MD Christian 301 862-3160 HST Calif., MD Formatted for NAM VET by: VETLink #1 The following is from an article in "BRAVO Veterans Outlook". June 1989 issue, written by TASK FORCE OMEGA, INC.: The Prisoner of War issue is one in which many of the basic facts have been misplaced in the overall picture of the Vietnam War. These facts American citizens. We know for a fact the following: Of the Prisoners of War (POW), Missing in Action (MIA), and Killed in Action-Body Not Recovered (KIABNR), 80% are PILOTS and FLIGHTCREWS, only 20% of those unaccounted for AMERICANS are ground personnel. This makes this group of POW/MIA/KIABNR's better educated and trained in all areas including escape and evasion as well as captivity training. They were young, healthy, free-thinking, flexible, and aggressive, the best this country had to offer with a very strong will to adapt and survive. There were no Anzio's or Guadacanal's where thousands of men died in the surf, their remains carried out to sea with no way to ever cover them. There were no ships sunk with hundreds of men going down with their ship in vast bodies of water as happened in World War II. There are men and women, military personnel and civilians, who remain throughout Southeast Asia, both alive and dead. This includes the countries of North Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and China. At the end of the War there were 117 documented and confirmed POW's who were knowingly left behind in captivity. According to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIAM), to be a confirmed POW, there must be two source. The remains of some 47 of those confirmed POW's have been returned over the years leaving 70 in enemy hands. Our government calls these "discrepancy cases", a term used to negate the fact that, either dead or alive, the communists have them. There were over 600 American citizens lost in Laos. With the exception of 9 men who were captured inside Laos by the Vietnamese, transported to Hanoi within a matter of weeks and released there during Operation Homecoming, no POW's held by the communist Pathet Lao were ever released from captivity. Our involvement in Southeast Asia began, in part, because of the void formed when the French left that area of the world, coupled with a request for assistance from an ally who was being threatened with invasion. In the beginning, U.S. presence in both Laos and Vietnam was minimal. Within a matter of a few years, our advisor corps had grown considerably. By 1964, when then President Johnson issued the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which catapulted us into a wide ranging conventional war, some American citizens had spent considerable length of time locked up in captivity. Ultimately, President Johnson would find himself, and NAM VET Newsletter Page 12 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 his administration, making military decisions based solely on political considerations. Quite possibly the most damaging of these North Vietnam. or to his sanctuaries in certain areas of Laos and Cambodia. When he broadcast this decision to the world, he made it perfectly clear that he intended to conduct a no-win war, a fact that was not lost in any way to the communists. It also meant that our military was not allowed to utilize its full conventional capacity to win in the least amount of time while suffering the lowest number of casualties. The reality was that U.S. personnel fought the War with one hand effectively tied behind its back while being forced to use its enemies rules of engagement. By 1972, the American public was totally fed up with our nation's longest War, as well as the manner in which it was being waged. Then President Nixon was faced with the need to extricate the U.S. from Southeast Asia or politically commit suicide. The end result was negotiating strategy so weak that we could not even obtain one single item the U.S. wanted from the settlement, the return of all POW's, the repatriation of remains of the dead, and as full and complete accounting as humanly possible for the rest. By December 1972, the Vietnamese walked away from the peace negotiations and the only recourse available to President Nixon was to order massive air strikes on Hanoi and Haiphong over Christmas. This act, literally, bombed the North Vietnamese back to the conference table. The end result was the 1973. The signatories to the Paris Peace Accords, and later those to the Lao Cease fire Agreement, add to the abandonment of our fellow countrymen. There were only four parties to the Paris Peace Accords. They were the South Vietnamese and the United States on one side, and the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong on the other. There were no provisions for those men and women held captive by the Pathet Lao. In 1975, when the cease fire agreement went into effect in Laos, there were only three parties to it, the Pathet Lao, who we fought, the Royal Lao, who we supported, and the Neutralist Lao. The U.S. was not a party in any way to that agreement, which left those POW's in apolitical limbo. The Pathet Lao stated right from the beginning that if a prisoner was captured and held in Laos, then, he or she would be released by the Laotians in Laos. The Vietnamese are an extremely shrewd people with a proven track record of using any and all means to achieve their goals. Toward the end of the negotiation process, the Vietnamese presented the U.S. with a partial list of POW's, purposely denying having some of the prisoners they knew the U.S. was sure to know they did have. If the Asians had simply left off their list the names the U.S. was not absolutely sure were being held by the Hanoi regime, then the U.S. might have unwittingly accepted their word for it. As it was, the U.S. was forced intended to obtain the release of all its countrymen. This process actually began three days after the peace agreement was signed and was terminated in a matter of months. During Operation Homecoming, the Vietnamese returned 591 men. In addition to not receiving any POW's from captivity in Laos, the only POW's returned from Cambodia were those held by the Vietnamese inside that country. Also conspicuous by there absence were those WOMEN known to be POW's along with WAR WOUNDED AND MENTALLY HANDICAPPED. THERE WAS NOT ONE PERSON MISSING AN EYE, EAR, ARM, OR LEG. THERE WERE NO SEVERE BURN CASES, NOR WERE THERE ANY SEVERE MENTAL CASES. Given the type of warfare fought, the number of air casualties, the high velocity weapons used and NAM VET Newsletter Page 13 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 vicious captivity, it is reasonable to expect that some of our POW's would have suffered those types of mental and physical wounds and survived in spite of them. Not only did we receive surprises by omission, but we also received back some POW's that we had no idea were in captivity in the first place! There were several pilots that were believed to have died in their aircraft and who, by reason of their incident, probably never could be recovered. This includes one pilot whose aircraft was struck by a surface-to-air missile and immediately exploded while six other one saw anything or anyone leave the fireball, nor did the cameras record that man's miraculous escape, even though it was a clear and sunny day. He was immediately listed as Killed in Action-Body Not Recovered, a righteous decision based on all the evidence, but totally wrong. Another surprise was an American civilian whose existence in the Plantation Prison Camp was not known by the other prisoners, and whose name was not on the Vietnamese list of POW's to be repatriated. Operation Homecoming was already underway when he was discovered by accident, huddled in an isolated section of the prison, a section that had been sealed off by the Vietnamese some months earlier when the prisoners had been consolidated. The POW's had been restricted from entering this secured area and only after observing guards on several occasions taking food into it and returning later with an empty tray did one Air Force pilot chance retribution by slipping into it. The other POW's, mostly well known and senior rank, forced the Vietnamese to return that civilian with them by refusing to leave the Plantation unless he went with them. If it had not been for the curiosity of one POW and the courage of all of them to fight for that man's freedom, then undoubtedly, he would not have been returned with the others, and would have been among those others who were abandoned. Since the conclusion of our government is that the returned POW's brought out the names of everyone held in captivity. In reality, of the 591 men who did return, only 387 of them were known to each other! These men were held in North Vietnam in the greater Hanoi Hilton prison complex. In fact, there were men whose names were scratched into the walls of prison cells in this prison who did not return in 1973. Their names were not included on any list of those who Died in Captivity (DICT), nor have their remains been returned to the U.S. In a similar vein, those same returnees were not aware of the 9 men captured by Vietnamese in Laos and moved to North Vietnam immediately until shortly before their release because those 9 men were kept isolated from the rest. The surprise of learning their camp housed men heretofore not known to the general population was quite a shock. It also proved to be an asset to the U.S. Government. Our officials were able to claim the "repatriation of those men from Laos"by these 9 men, and was a ploy that worked for several years. Another little known fact about the returned POW's is that they came from 13 separate camps primarily in North and South Vietnam. Our government intelligence agencies are able to locate and identify only 9 of those 13 camps. In other words, we received POW's from 4 camps whose location was totally unknown to our intelligence experts. Besides holding locations throughout Southeast Asia existed without the knowledge of our government? And in turn, how many Prisoners of War were held in these camps? The DIAM has known since the midİ1970's that the North Vietnamese classified captive Americans into 5 categories because this information was passed to them by a high level Vietnamese official who defected to the U.S. shortly after the peace NAM VET Newsletter Page 14 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 agreement went into effect. It is also known that the DIAM was able to confirm the truthfulness of his information through other means. The categories are: Progressives (those men who yielded to their captors in order to obtain better food and treatment), Reactionaries (those men who resisted their captors in every possible way, those POW's who would be returned, war wounded / mentally handicapped, and known dead. The question of why the communists would continue to hold Americans years after our military involvement ceased, frequently arises. The reasons are both deceivingly simple, and at the same time, quite complex. What do they want? They want money-aid from,and trade with our country. In addition, they want a minimum of $3.25billion in reconstruction aid. War reparations, if you will, which is in the amount promised to the Hanoi regime by former President Nixon, and which was part of a greater aid package for all Southeast Asian countries. The total figure was in excess of $7 billion to be furnished over a ranks high on their list. Face saving is extremely important to Asians, and as strange as it may seem to us, they will not feel "legitimate" in their own eyes until the United States recognizes them. The fact that we have not done so to date continues to gnaw at them terribly. When the U.S. pulled out of Southeast Asia, millions of dollars in equipment was left behind. Without knowledgeable people to maintain it, it is useless to them. The technical knowledge possessed by our people ranging from the lowliest private on up, is reason enough to warrant holding them. Both time and life mean different things to Asians than they do to us. We Americans are an extremely impatient people. We think in terms of minutes, days, and months, while Asians think in terms of years, decades, and centuries. Likewise, life is highly revered by us while to them it is just another commodity to bargain with because, in a communist society, human beings are considered no more than educated animals to be used for the benefit of the state. In the same vein, communists are not restricted by our sense of lie,or use any means at his disposal to achieve his desired goal. Once the best deal possible has been extracted, then, and only then, will POW's been returned. There will be no explanations or apologies, just men and women coming home in various sized groups from throughout Southeast Asia, over a period of time, in the same manner as did the French Legionnaires. The communist policy toward prisoners, criminals, and jail is also alien to us. While we protect our criminal's individual rights to the extreme, under a communist government, a criminal has no individual rights. In their society, once a person is placed in prison for a major offense, he becomes a non-person. In other words, to his family and friends, he is dead. They morn his passing and he can literally never go home again. He is also subjected to the harshest and cruelest treatment imaginable. In our society, such treatment would never be tolerated. During the War, the communists referred to captive Americans as "Yankee Air Pirates", "Bandits", and "War Criminals", or simply criminals, and even threatened publicly to try them as such. In the Asians, eyes, our men and women had no status, and their only value was to be used for local propaganda and to wring whatever concessions possible out of the War,s end, when inquiries are made but our officials about American POW's, by their own definition, they can disclaim holding any of them. Another theory, which has not been politically pursued by our NAM VET Newsletter Page 15 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 government, is that the communists have given local citizenship and names to our prisoners. This tack would allow them to use the ruse of nationality to confuse any negotiations for their release. Through political games and maneuvering, the communists have found ways to justify and deny holding POW's back. Are they prisoners or criminals? Are they Americans or Asians? Those questions can be answered in part by the experience of two Americans who crossed into Laos from Thailand in October 1988, to pass out information about a POW reward offer for an Asian who brings an American prisoner out of captivity. They were held for 41 days, first in the village where they were captured, and later, in Vientaine, where they were moved to. Their interrogators repeatedly asked, "Why did you come to Laos"? To that question they would answer that they were there to try to help American servicemen from the Vietnam War. Over and over again, the communists insisted that THEY ARE CRIMINALS". They also stated repeatedly that even though the War had been over for 13 years, and relations between the Laotian government and the U.S. had improved,they still consider them to be criminals. Both statements are positive in nature, leaving no doubt. During these same negotiations, it became perfectly clear to the Americans that the U.S. government was not negotiating for LIVE POW's, but instead, only for remains, because the Laotian officials told both of them that there was a contract between the two governments for crash site investigations. In the words of the Laotian: "We have a contract with the U.S. government to go to crash sites and dig for bones". The Laotian asked the two of them if they knew about that contract, and when they said yes, that they did, the Laotian would ask, "Then why do you come to Laos"? Their answer to the Laotian was always the same, "Because we are not interested in bones, we are looking for LIVE Americans". The Laotian would again state: "THEY ARE CRIMINALS". The names game, which is played out by Asians and American officials, has gone on since the first U.S. citizen was incarcerated in Southeast Asia in 1961. Even though the labels have been well documented since the beginning, the U.S. continues not to acknowledge the Asian terminology or the philosophy behind it. A question not frequently asked, but one which should be, is what would happen if Prisoners of War were allowed to return to the United States? Quite simply, it would cause political chaos. Both major political parties, four former Presidents plus the present President, along with all of their Vice-Presidents, Secretaries of State and Defense, other bureaucrats, and all members of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives will have to answer for their actions, or lack of them. Based on known facts, there is no doubt that a substantial number of American citizens were wantonly abandoned throughout Southeast Asia by officials of this government. Over the years key officials at all levels have stated their beliefs that live POW's are surviving in communist captivity. The three highest ranking officials in the Reagan administration to do so give us some interesting insights. During an Evans and Novak political forum, former National Security Advisor Robert "Bud" McFarlane stated on October 9. 1985 in response to a direct question that: "there is quite a lot of evidence given by people who have no ulterior motives and no reason to lie, and they are telling things they have seen. I do think there has to be... there have to be live Americans there. What you need to do is to have better intelligence in Vietnam. But, I wouldn't pretend to NAM VET Newsletter Page 16 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 you that we've done enough to even start. and that's bad, and that's a failure". During a very heated discussion with several U.S. Congressmen in the office of one of them, former CIA Director William Cases stated in but there is no groundswell of public support for getting them out. Certainly you are not suggesting we pay for them, surely not saying we could do anything like that with no public support"? Lastly, former Director of the DIAM, Lt. General Eugene Tighe. testified several times before various congressional committees. under oath. in regard to information collected by his agency. He testified that: "During my tenure as Director, I saw more information on POW's than any other man in the world. I was convinced then. and I am convinced today. that Americans are being held against their will by the communists in Southeast Asia. He further added that he requested and received a daily update on this subject. When asked by a committee member how many POW's would he estimate are still alive, the general stated: "There could be 50 or 60 in Vietnam, maybe more". At this time the congressmen did not pursue how many POW's were also being held in Laos, or any other country, for that matter. The first time General Tighe told the House Subcommittee on Pacific and Asian Affairs that live Americans remained in Southeast Asia was on June 5th, 1979, early into his tenure as the director. He continued to testify about living prisoners throughout his time in the Defense Intelligence Agency, but it was not until his testimony of June 25th, 1981 that the importance of what he was telling congress registered on them. Since his great shame on our nation. During the Vietnam War, American military personnel were expected to adhere to a very rigid code of conduct, which was established after the Korean War and which has since been modified to reflect more realistic expectations of them. Enforcement of such a code upon our military carries with it a reciprocal responsibility upon our government. The obligation is legally binding, and not one which our elected or appointed officials can shirk for any reason. It is supported by the U.S. Hostage Act, which states that it is the responsibility of the President to take all action, short of war, to obtain the freedom of any citizen held hostage against their will by a foreign power. There are three basic ways our fellow countrymen can return to us. Each one carries with it a different set of short and long term ramifications which will have far reaching affects. One way they can be repatriated is through government-to-government negotiations. In the short run, if POW's return through this channel, there will be a scream go up across the country, the like of which has not been heard since World War I; but in reality, it will not be that strong or that longlasting. In the long run, little will be done to protect future generations from suffering such abandonment. The next way they can be returned is through a quasi-government operation. In other words, if it is successful, the government can take credit for it; and if it fails, then it's just another crazy private sector effort. In the short run, there will be a greater uproar which will last longer and cause some major changes within the bureaucracy. In the long run, it will not correct those flaws in the system which permitted this travesty to evolve in the first place. The last way in which American POW's can return home is through responsible private sector efforts. In the short run, this country will erupt in a rage which will not easily subside. In NAM VET Newsletter Page 17 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 the long run, it will be the most healthy for this nation because it will trigger a wide range of much needed major reforms. It will also give us the opportunity to regain control of our runaway bureaucracy. Should President Bush choose to do what he is legally and morally obligated to, he has a wide variety of options available to him. In the words of former Secretary of State George Schultz in the mid-80's: "his options range from ransom to black helicopters in the night. The use of diplomatic channels, both direct and indirect, is an unused resource to date. It is important that the President authorize high level negotiations and empower his representative with the ability to do whatever is necessary to gain our POW's release. He also can Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia to intercede in our behalf. Both Vietnam and Laos continue to secure low-interest loans through the Import/Export Bank and World Bank. Since U.S. tax dollars substantially support both institutions, we, as a nation,can economically squeeze them for return of our countrymen, both living and dead. We could also throw them an economic carrot by partially lifting the trade embargo on Vietnam and the aid ban on Laos. By doing so, we could entice the Asians into a quid-pro-quo arrangement. The barter system is their way of life, so this system would make perfect sense to them. Military operations by our government to snatch Prisoners of War out of captivity are viable alternatives to political negotiations. That is, IF the United States government has the courage to do so. There is no doubt the American public would support a successful operation to recover POW's in the same overwhelming way they supported President Reagan when he ordered the invasion of Grenada and the bombing of Libya. Yes, it would mean acknowledgment that our government knowingly deserted American fighting men and civilians to a fate worse then them to that living hell as a non-person in a foreign land with no legal recourse or hope for reprieve. Would the Asians kill the remaining POW's if some of the prisoners were liberated by whatever means available? No, probably not. Except for habitual criminals convicted of major crimes who prove to be incorrigible, it is considered to be greater punishment to imprison them for life than to execute them. Further, it is still the intent of the Asians to wring whatever concessions possible out of our government. The plain fact is, that they know they can get more for a living POW than a dead one. More for remains then just information... and they will get nothing for nothing. Since the discovery of POW's would break the current stalemate on the live Prisoner of War issue, the Asians probably would not be too unhappy if all of a sudden a handful of prisoners showed up on the six o'clock news. After all, that action alone would cause serious negotiation to begin anew on behalf of our countrymen. The policy of the United States government is: "even though we have thus far been unable to prove live Americans remain in Southeast Asia, we operate under the assumption that some are". When general Tighe was asked if the criteria has been met by our intelligence agencies to has. The problem is that there is a mind set to debunk the evidence rather than to prove it". He added that every time the requirements are met, they are then raised, when they are met again, they are raised again. The evidence that filled those requirements to prove prisoners exist today includes thousands of firstİhand eyewitness refugee reports, satellite NAM VET Newsletter Page 18 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 photography, U.S. military operations sources, and other American citizens who were POW's in captivity in the late 1970's and early 1980's. The question is that if the U.S. government, with all of its modern high-tech intelligence capability, has not been able to prove the existence of living POW's, then it is because of incompetence or lack of desire to prove it? Obviously something is wrong, drastically wrong, when stated policy of our government concedes, and has conceded for the last eight years, the high probability that Americans are still alive, and yet the mightiest nation in the world cannot obtain their release. In the final analysis, it does not matter if there are hundreds of Americans in captivity today, or if there is only one. What does matter is they continue to be held against their will and they have the right to freedom. THINK ABOUT IT! (Late note from TOM: Today. 8 June 1989, an early morning news release reported that a Japanese Monk, released from prison in Hanoi after 13 years, reported that he saw 5 or 6 American Prisoners of War being forced to work on construction sites. The guards referred to these prisoners as "America". Get your congressmen off their duffs to get these and other POW's home NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Note from Joe: See VIETNAM CAPTIVE SIGHTS POW's following! NAM VET Newsletter Page 19 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 FREED VIETNAM CAPTIVE SIGHTS POW'S! Input by: TOM WIEBER So. MD Christian 301 862-3160 HST Calif., MD Formatted for NAM VET by: VETLink #1 POW/MIA NEWS EXTRACTED FROM PRINTED MEDIA WASHINGTON TIMES, 9 JUNE 1989 MIAs still alive says freed monk TOKYO -- A Japanese monk released recently after 13 years in a Vietnamese prison said there were American soldiers held with him, a news service reported yesterday. Iwanobu Yoshida, 65, imprisoned for political reasons, said there were five or six American soldiers alive when he was released in January. "There were about 10 Americans when I was first captured...I heard all of them were beaten and tortured as I was. The Vietnamese government, which has returned 196 bodies but has denied Mr. Yoshida's claim, has repeatedly told Washington there are no American prisoners in Vietnam. WASHINGTON POST, 10 JUNE 1989 FREED VIETNAM CAPTIVE REPORTS SEEING U.S. POWS TOKYO, 9 June -- A Japanese Buddhist monk recently released from a Vietnamese prison camp has said he is certain that several white men held with him were U.S. prisoners daughter reported today. Iwanobu Yoshida, 65, has been hospitalized since his release from Vietnam in January and is apparently too frail emotionally, mentally and physically to discuss his imprisonment, which he told his daughter included electric shock torture and regular beatings. But in a telephone interview from her hometown of Sapporo, Keiko Takatsuka, 37, said her father told her he was imprisoned for three years just before his release in a cell with about seven other prisoners, including three men who said they were Americans. If true, Yoshida's revelations would mark the first actual sightings of American POWs in Vietnam. Yoshida described the three as 40 to 50 years old and said that everyday they were taken to work on a prison construction crew. Yoshida suffered a stroke three years ago and was unable to work but he told his daughter he survived because the Americans brought him bananas they collected during work. Yoshida also said that, before his stroke, he had been held in several other prison camps where he saw many Americans. "There are still lots of them," Takatsuka quoted her father as saying. Veterans' organizations and families of missing servicemen have long charged that Vietnam is holding Americans shot down or captured during the Vietnam War. Vietnam has steadfastly denied it. In January, the outgoing Reagan Administration issued a report saying it had found no evidence that Americans were prisoners in North Vietnam after 1973. But the Defense Department reports also missing in Southeast Asia are dead. A U.S. official said today that the account is "Potentially sensational" because it appears to be an eyewitness account. But officials here cautioned that the account remains unconfirmed and lacking in detail. U.S. officials have not been able to interview Yoshida because of his medical situation. The official said it is difficult to know whether the men were Americans without more specific information such as names or very detailed descriptions from Yoshida. Officials also said they wonder why Yoshida's NAM VET Newsletter Page 20 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 information did not emerge when he was first released in January. Takatsuka explained that her father, who was held in Vietnamese prisons since the war,s end in 1975, suffers from a variety of severe ailments and only in the last few weeks has begun to talk a little about his experiences in prison. Yoshida is a Zen Buddhist priest who went to Vietnam 24 years ago as a missionary, eventually setting up his own temple in Saigon just before the Americans withdrew and the North Vietnamese took over the South in 1975. He was immediately arrested, though it was never clear why, and spent the next 13-1/2 years in prison camps. Yoshida is a graduate of Sophia University, one of Tokyo,s international schools. He thus speaks some English, but is not fluent, his daughter said. However, according to his daughter, he apparently knew enough to be able to ask the three men who shared the cell where he was kept for the last three years whether America. That's how we communicated. And they called me Jap". Takatsuka quoted her father as telling her. Takatsuka said her father was released by Vietnamese officials on what they told her were "humanitarian grounds". She said his release followed an Amnesty International report last summer calling attention to his case. Takatsuka said she flew to Hanoi Jan. 20 to pick up her father and returned to Japan via Thailand Jan. 24. He has been hospitalized since. Takatsuka said she is "convinced that what my father said is 100 percent sure," and she added she felt strongly about letting the world know because she of her own experience with the suffering of the families of those missing in Vietnam. "What I am most worried about," she said, "is whether that fact that this has been disclosed could hurt them." U.S. MILITARY ATTACHE IN TOKYO TO INTERVIEW MONK ON POWs TOKYO, June 10 - A U.S. military attache will interview a Japanese monk who reportedly has said he saw American prisoners in the reeducation camp where he was held in Vietnam, a U.S. Embassy spokesman said today. The monk's daughter quoted her father as saying he shared a cell with three American prisoners for the last six years he spent in captivity. She said her father did not remember their names but described them as from mental disorders and a speech impediment. He has been hospitalized since January when he returned to Japan after being released from 14 years of imprisonment in Vietnam. In the last week he has given his first interviews to the Japanese media, saying that he saw Americans held since the Vietnam War. Vietnam denies holding American prisoners, and recently it has cooperated with U.S. officials searching for remains of Americans missing in action. Yoshida's daughter, Keiko Takatsuka, said today that her father communicated with the Americans in his cell through gestures. A U.S. military attache will travel to Sapporo on Sunday to interview Yoshido, a U.S. Embassy spokesman said, speaking anonymously. He said Takatsuka met with a U.S. Naval attache at the Embassy in Tokyo recently to report her father's remarks and that the information was forwarded to Washington for analysis. Takatsuka initially refused to speak with U.S. officials, saying her father was too ill, according to the embassy spokesman. Only Yoshida's daughter can understand what he says, and his speech is at some times incoherent, said a spokesman for the hospital where Yoshida is being treated. NAM VET Newsletter Page 21 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 W W M M W W M M M M W W \ / M M M M OOOO W W W --*-- M M M IIII O O W W W W / \ M M II O O W W W W M M II O O W W M M II O O II PPPPPP O O ..... II AA PP PP OOOO . '' '' .. IIII A A PP PP ..' '.. A A PPPPPPP ..' ''. A A PP ..' '. AAAAAA PP .' ''. A A PP .' '. A A .' .:::::.. '. .' .::::::::::. ' .' .::::::::::::::. '. .' __ .::::::::::::::::;:... '. .' _- -_ .:::::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' _-_ _ _ -_ ::::::::::::::::::::::::' '. .. _- -!!___!!!-_:::::::::::::::::::::::. .. .' ==_ _- _= .:::::::::::::::::::::::: ', . =-_= _= = :::::::::::::::::::::::: . .' =-_ =_- = ::::::::::::::::::::::: '. .' = - -_ =_:::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' -_ -_- .:::::::::::::::::::;;;. '. .' _-_ ..::::::::::::::::::::::::; '. . _ _ .:;:::::::::::::::::::::;, . ' _ .:::::::::::::::::::::::::. '. Y .'.....::::::::::::::::::::::::::;' '. N ::::::::::::::::::::::::' `''' ': O `::::::::::::::::::::::: \v/ \ / :'E `:::::::::::::::::::::: =========================== :' U `:::::::::::::::::::::. /^\ \ :'T `:::::::::::::::::::: .: A `:::::::::::::::::: .:'T `::::::::::::::::::. .;' R `:::::::::::::::::. .;' T `::::::::::::::::. .;' E `:::::::::gjp::: .:' O `:::::::::::::...........'' G N O T F O R " Bring them home --- NOW !!! " NAM VET Newsletter Page 22 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= C U R R E N T H O T I S S U E S ================================================================= International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference discusses the recent Supreme Court Ruling about OUR COUNTRY's FLAG Messages from the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference: ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : All From: Al Marhofke Subj: Supreme Court I'm sure this is a subject that will generate a great deal of comment. I for one normally keep a low profile. But in this case, could not hold back. According to a Supreme Court ruling on July 22, 1989. It is now okay for the great people of the United States to burn our American Flag. The U.S. has always prided itself in the area of freedom. We can print what we want, say what we want etc, So lets all take that special flag we have and burn it! The flag I fought for. And many of my commrades died for. Is now being burned by different radical groups all over the country. I am past upset on the courts ruling on this issue. It may now be legal to burn the american flag. Just don't do it around me. In my heart I am still a soldier. And yes, I still can and will defend the flag, and what it stands for.... Origin: The Inner Circle BBS 1:154/288 Milwaukee, Wi. 414-355-3691 (1:154/288 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Lefty Frizzell Subj: Supreme Court In a message of <23 Jun 89 07:55:00>, Al Marhofke (1:154/288) writes: AM>It may now be legal to burn the american flag. Just don't do AM>it around me. AM>In my heart I am still a soldier. And yes, I still can and AM>will defend the flag, and what it stands for.... Al, your gonna have to get in line...and the end is around the corner. Lefty Origin: T.P.T.B.B. That's just it...Bubba! (1:106/116.1) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Mike Dacus Subj: Supreme Court NAM VET Newsletter Page 23 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Al, it seems to me that the guarantee of the right to express an idea by burning the American Flag ought to pretty well guarantee my right to freely express my ideas by knocking the guy's damned head off if he or she is foolish enough to try anywhere around me. I've watched far too many close friends and comrades-in-arms lie for the last time under that flag as the cold clear notes of Taps expressed the thanks of the Nation that flag represented. This is obviously a case of equal protection under the law. Maybe we'll have the opportunity to see if we're just as protected by the Supreme court as the flag burners. Later. Mike Origin: ZEPHYR, HST, National Capital Area, 703-620-5418 (TComm 1:109/124) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Juan Perez Subj: Re: Supreme Court AM> I'm sure this is a subject that will generate a great deal of AM> comment. AM> I for one normally keep a low profile. But in this case, could AM> not hol back. AM> According to a Supreme Court ruling on July 22, 1989. It is now okay f AM> the great people of the United States to burn our American AM> Flag. The U has always prided itself in the area of freedom. AM> We can print what we say what we want etc, So lets all take AM> that special flag we have and b it! AM> The flag I fought for. And many of my commrades died for. Is AM> now being burned by different radical groups all over the AM> country. I am past upset on the courts ruling on this issue. AM> It may now be legal to burn the american flag. Just don't do AM> it around AM> In my heart I am still a soldier. And yes, I still can and AM> will defend flag, and what it stands for.... AM> * Origin: The Inner Circle BBS 1:154/288 Milwaukee, Wi. 414- AM> 355-3691 (1:154/288 And you can count on me Origin: THE TROJAN EXPRESS II BBS * WPB, FL * [407-832-8971] (1:3609/5) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Christopher Jones Subj: Re: SUPREME COURT AL, I know what you mean. It really makes me mad that this great country which pratically lives around the flag will let these people burn the American flag to make their point. from, NAM VET Newsletter Page 24 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Chris Jones Origin: Blythe Systems TelepsYch: People Reaching People 718-448-2358 (1:1033/0) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Tom Welch Subj: Re: Supreme Court Hello Al: Read you message about the supreme court (the lack of capitol letters is intentional) and there cerebral decision to allow Flag burning and I feel the same way you do! It almost makes me feel the same way I felt back in 1967 after returning home from overseas. Some hippie looking spoiled kid burning the Flag I fought for and still love today!! If you do it around me...you'll have a size 9 1/2 D shoe planted someplace where you least need it!! The only thing that disturbes nme more is the American public's visible response to Flag burning and, as the DAV magazine reported last month, people STANDING on the American Flag at some exhibit!! The only one's who seem to care...at least publically are the DAV and the VFW!!! Maybe there are other people and organizations out there, but I sure don't see them!!! May God Bless You Al...and GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!! Best Regards.....***TOM*** West Palm Origin: THE TROJAN EXPRESS BBS * WPB, FL * [407-832-8971] (1:3609/5) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Steve Strandin Subj: Re: Supreme Court Hi Al, I am a mentally ill vet but not so crazy to burn the flag. I can not imagine why the court passed that law. Steve Strandin Origin: Steves Computer BBS, Seattle Wa. , (1:343/48) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Mike Dacus From: Al Marhofke Subj: Re: Supreme Court Hi Mike: Right on!!! Our attitudes are about the same. The problem is this. If we smack some radical for burning the American flag. Guess who will be the one looking for bail money? Origin: The Inner Circle BBS 1:154/288 Milwaukee, Wi. 414-355-3691 (1:154/288) NAM VET Newsletter Page 25 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Lefty Frizzell Subj: Re: Supreme Court In a message of <27 Jun 89 07:33:00>, Al Marhofke (1:154/288) writes: AM> Hi Mike: AM> Right on!!! Our attitudes are about the same. AM>The problem is this. If we smack some radical for burning the AM>American flag. Guess who will be the one looking for bail AM>money? Send your tax exempt contributions to the "Fund for the Veteran with the Broken Ankle"....... Lefty Origin: T.P.T.B.B. That's just it...Bubba! (1:106/116.1) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Mike Dacus From: Lefty Frizzell Subj: Supreme Court In a message of <24 Jun 89 18:52:00>, Mike Dacus (1:109/124) writes: MD>Al, it seems to me that the guarantee of the right to express MD>an idea by burning the American Flag ought to pretty well MD>guarantee my right to freely express my ideas by knocking the MD>guy's damned head off if he or she is foolish enough to try MD>anywhere around me. I've watched far too many close friends MD>and comrades-in-arms lie for the last time under that flag as MD>the cold clear notes of Taps expressed the thanks of the MD>Nation that flag represented. This is obviously a case of MD>equal protection under the law. Maybe we'll have the MD>opportunity to see if we're just as protected by the Supreme MD>court as the flag burners. Dunno about that Mike, but I am keeping "Bail Money" available. Call me if needed. Lefty Origin: T.P.T.B.B. That's just it...Bubba! (1:106/116.1) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Mike Dacus From: Ken Morrow Subj: Supreme Court Amen bro... Origin: The Pass Too! -- Net 381 Mail Distribution NAM VET Newsletter Page 26 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 (915) 821-5037 (1:381/31) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Juan Perez From: Bill Spurgeon Subj: Re: Supreme Court Juan - I find your argument about burning the flag to be slightly off-base. What you fought for...what you and I defended...was not the flag...which is, after all, just a symbol. We fought to preserve and protect the constitution, a real lfe document outlining our individual and collective rights. This document is so central to our government, to our people, that your loyalty should be placed here, in it's defense. And what the Court has said is that the constitution protects all mannor of political expression, even those you find abhorant. Let me predict there may come a time when you or I need this protection again, as we did when that crook Nixon tried to subvert the proper exercise of government power. Let me ask how you feel when you see someone burn the effigy of Uncle Sam? Why is that a less powerful scene than someone burning the flag. I don't agree with either, but I oppose the right of people like me and you to decide for others the bounds of legitimate political descent. I am not happy with the court's decision, but I can live with it as a part of our great constitution. Origin: National Firearms Assoc., *80386 + HST = FAST* (512)-441-6300 (Opus 1:382/26) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Mike Dacus From: Charles Harper Subj: Re: Supreme Court > Al, it seems to me that the guarantee of the right to > express an idea by burning the American Flag ought to pretty > well guarantee my right to freely express my ideas by knocking > the guy's damned head off if he or she is foolish enough to try > anywhere around me. I've watched far too many close friends and > comrades-in-arms lie for the last time under that flag as the > cold clear notes of Taps expressed the thanks of the Nation that > flag represented. This is obviously a case of equal protection > under the law. Maybe we'll have the opportunity to see if we're > just as protected by the Supreme court as the flag burners. > Later. > Mike I agree I think a quick kick in the rear end from me to anyone that burns our flag should be considered my right of expressing my expressions towards the individual that burned the flag. I personally think we have a some of the worst examples of Judges in the Sureme Court at the present time. Origin: Classic City \/\/ildcat Athens, Ga. NAM VET Newsletter Page 27 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 404-548-0130 (1:370/11) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Lefty Frizzell From: Mike Dacus Subj: Supreme Court Maybe if we hit them fast enough they'll never know what hit them and will have no need for the bail money. Late.r Mike Origin: ZEPHYR, HST, National Capital Area, 703-620-5418 (TComm 1:109/124) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Bill Spurgeon From: Joe Cary Subj: Re: Supreme Court I agree with your answer. Flag burners deserve our contempt but the answer is not to lock them away but to expose the errors in their reasoning. The same for nazis, fascists and white supremists. etc. If they get violent then lock them away. In the orient, the loser of an argument is the first to resort to force. So we have to out reason them, not out muscle them. They wilt if their support is removed. Origin: TCS (301)261-3877 [AKA 7:524/2052] ... (Opus 109/50) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : All From: Al Marhofke Subj: American Flag Because of the recent Supreme Court decision reagarding the American Flag. On July 4th. Myself, and many other organizations in our county. Will be flying our flag at half mast. At this time I ask for your support in this endeavor. And ask that all Vet message boards also be notified of our July 4th plans. I strongly disagree with the Supreme Court on this issue. Too many people are sitting back waiting to see how this controversy will go. This is our chance to show the people of the world. That we love our country and the American Flag. This is one war that we can win. Now let's do it! Origin: The Inner Circle BBS 1:154/288 Milwaukee, Wi. 414-355-3691 (1:154/288) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo NAM VET Newsletter Page 28 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 To : All From: Al Marin Subj: American Flag! Just a quick note to air my feelings a little....when the United States Supreme Court - the Highest court in the land, one that should be respected - decided it was alright for a snot nosed punk to burn our beloved American Flag, my stomach became undescribably noxious! When I think of all the men and women that fought and died for the flag and ALL that it stands for....even the service I did in Nam', I just can't help but wonder...do you remember how it felt when you got back? How YOU were the outcast! What in hell is this country going to? . Origin: The Chess Board - Quick/386/HST/SDS/D'Bridge (1:387/402) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : ALL From: Joe Cary Subj: The Flag This whole uproar about the Supreme Court's decision on flag burning strikes me as misplaced and a wasted effort. I am a VN Vet and I agree with the Supreme Court's decision even though I don't like to see the flag desecrated. In my opinion a Flag- burner is simply trying to get attention and should be ignored. And why waste my tax dollars pursuing the matter in court? A much better approach is to instill the values the flag is supposed to stand for in our citizenry. This should be done at home and in school with our kids and by our own examples. For instance, do you set an example by standing straight and proud, with your hand over your heart when "The Starspangled Banner" is played or when the flag passes during a parade? Or do you just keep gabbing with the people around you? In the latter case you may be showing less respect for the flag than the flag-burner is showing. At least the burner is acknowledging the symbolism and special status of the flag even while burning it. When I went to Vietnam as a draftee it wasn't as a flag-waving, save-the-world-from-communism ideologue but as someone caught up in the flow of events and I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other. But I didn't go so we could lock-up flag burners and I sure as hell didn't go to make it safe for Nixon, Reagan and their cronies to plunder the treasury and subvert the Constitution. There seem to be so many breaking scandals now that I almost hate to read the paper...and the flag waving Republicans seem to be leading the pack. Iran/Contra...defense fraud...HUD & influence peddling ($400,000 to James Watt for a few phone calls, come on!)...Northrop/DEA...S&L failures. The list keeps growing. I don't mean to imply there aren't a few Democrats involved, also. Last night the House of Representatives held an all night session to work out a Constitutional Amendment proposal to ban desecrating the flag. If they would only be so diligent about something that matters. It sounds like this session was instigated by the Republicans who are trying to wrap themselves in the flag. Then, while hiding behind the flag they can plunder the treasury some NAM VET Newsletter Page 29 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 more. It's kind of like patting your victim on the back with one hand while you pick his pocket with the other. Anyway, I think we, as a nation need to get back to a sounder moral foundation and we had better start insisting on better government! A first step towards the latter might be to vote against Representatives with over 8 years of incumbancey. Otherwise they get so entrenched their only worry is getting re- elected regardless of the consequences to the country. So, get involved, Veterans. Your country still needs you. Origin: TCS (301)261-3877 [AKA 7:524/2052] ... (Opus 109/50) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Tom Welch From: Tom Betz Subj: Re: SUPREME COURT People who insist on idolizing the flag are no different than people who idolize the bible or the Ayatollah - all idolaters! They (and you) confuse the moon for the finger pointing at the moon, the symbolized for the symbol. All your emotional baggage is your own lookout. Origin: Blythe Systems TelepsYch: People Reaching People 718-448-2358 (1:1033/0) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Tom Betz From: Lefty Frizzell Subj: Re: SUPREME COURT In a message of <29 Jun 89 18:03:01>, Tom Betz (1:1033/0) writes: TB>People who insist on idolizing the flag are no different than TB>people who idolize the bible or the Ayatollah - all idolaters! TB>They (and you) confuse the moon for the finger pointing at the TB>moon, the symbolized for the symbol. Yeah Tom, and opinions are like a**holes...everyone has one. That is one of the purposes of this conference, to let people express them. He has and you have...I think you are about even. If you have seen the flag draped over as many coffins of friends as I, and Dacus, and Dealy, and Toothman..and just too many more to mention...you might have a different opinion. Wars have been fought over symbols, check out the Crusades...and will be again. My opinion is this...Burn the flag all you want. AWAY FROM ME. Burn it around me...and I BURN YOU. Simple isnt it. Respect my opinion...and I will respect yours. Respect my belief and I respect yours. Trample on me I trample on you. Respect has got to start someplace...it sure has gone to hell in a hand basket in the US. And if it takes a Constitutional Amendment get even a small part of America back on the right track...then so be it. NAM VET Newsletter Page 30 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 I humbly await your reply. Lefty Origin: Setpoint, Inc. Houston, Texas (1:106/116) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : All From: Bill Spurgeon Subj: FLAG BURNING I saw the following on another conference and thought it should be repeated here: "A country with a flag that cannot be burned is not worth defending" Think about that. Many of the vets on this conference think of themselves as super patriots - to the point we are discussing doing harm to the bodys of those who would burn the flag. Have you thought that it IS against the law to burn the flag in any number of other countries...such as Cuba, Russia, Iran, etc. Would you super patriots have US be more like THEM? The right to free speech and expression is basic to our constitution...to our very self-image as a people. I don't burn the flag and I don't agree with those who do, but I am proud that the USA is so free that we can tolerate (without violence) those who choose to do so. One more thing, your loyalty to the flag is admirable, but misplaced. It is the Constitution that is the backbone of this country. This document, more than any other single artifact, defines us as a people and a nation. Free speech takes many forms, some valuable and patriotic, some raucous, subversive and dishonorable, but ALL forms of political expression are worthy of protection. Origin: National Firearms Assoc., *80386 + HST = FAST* (512)-441-6300 (Opus 1:382/26) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : All From: Michael Carver Subj: Flag and Freedom I am a little confused..... This nation was in an uproar over China's arresting and executing "protestors", those who did not believe as the government felt they should. However, the same people have turned around and feel that anyone in the Good Ole U S of A who wishes to protest certain government actions buy burning a "symbol" should be arrested and sent to prison. Where's the logic? I pity anyone who felt they "fought" or even died in battle for a piece of cloth. They did not fight or die for the symbol, but for this great nation where we should charish our freedom to stand up to our country if we feel that they are wrong. Ain't that what the founding fathers wanted? Origin: 5th SF (1:105/204) ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo To : Al Marhofke From: Gjoseph Peck Subj: Re: American Flag NAM VET Newsletter Page 31 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 AM> Because of the recent Supreme Court decision reagarding the AM> American Flag. AM> On July 4th. Myself, and many other organizations in our AM> county. Will be flying our flag at half mast. Ya know, Al... that's a good idea... how's about flying it half-mast *AND* inverted??? (International distress symbol) I'm going to be checking with our local Veteran groups... you're right... united we CAN make a difference... Ci'ao for Ni'ao -Joe- Origin: VETLink #1 "All Veterans Are Created" (413-443-6313) NAM VET Newsletter Page 32 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 STARS AND STRIPES The material has been authenticated by The Flag Heritage Foundation, Lexington, Massachusetts, Dr. Whitney Smith, Executive Director. Published by Shaw-Barton, Coshocton, Ohio (c) 1973 Command Inc. INPUT BY: VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA (1-413-443-6313) FidoNet 1:321/203 FOREWORD From its origin as the British Jack to our modern day Old Glory, our flag represents a dedication to freedom that symbolizes America. Our flag is not made of colored cloth and stitches, but of people; of pioneers like Daniel Boone and Neil Armstrong; of soldiers who fought and died to keep it waving free; of old and young, black and white, rich and poor, great and ordinary people alike who share in common a positive act of pride in hoisting the red, white and blue symbol of our nation. It is a genuine pleasure to present this compact little volume (minus the graphics in this ASCII textfile reproduction completed for NAM VET by Assistant Editor G. Joseph Peck), which brings you the story of the Stars and Stripes, and the history and legends which surround it. It is a fascinating and ageless account of our country's determination for freedom and the banner which gradually evolved to appropriately represent it. OLD FLAGS IN A NEW WORLD The first flag in the new world is believed to have been the black Raven flag of the Vikings, brought here by Leif Ericson early in the 11th century. Almost 500 years passed before Columbus brought the flag of Spain, and in so doing, opened the door to armies of explorers unfurling banners of many colors and designs - a virtual catalogue of the Old World. Cartier charted the St. Lawrence under the fleurs-de-lis of France. Sweden's yellow cross on a blue field flew over a military colony along the Delaware River. The red, white and blue of the Dutch protected the colonists of New Amsterdam. Add to these the old czarist flag of Russia and those of Mexico and the kingdom of Hawaii; all of them staking out colonies and new wealth for the Old World or seeking out a different way of life. Here, too, came the separate flags of England and Scotland, borne by men who more than any others were to determine the future of the new continent. THE BIRTH OF THE COLORS Of all the colors in the spectrum, why is our flag red, white and blue? These colors that would come to symbolize our great union of states were themselves born of another great union. England and Scotland, long bitter rivals, were united under common rule in 1603 when James VI, the Scottish king, also became ruler of England. He faced an immediate controversy - which flag should fly over the new union? The English flag of St. George, with a red cross on a white field? Or the Scottish flag of St. NAM VET Newsletter Page 33 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Andrew, showing a white cross on a blue field? The question was argued until 1606, when King James ordered that the two crosses be joined on a single flag symbolizing the union of two great peoples. Together the red and white English flag and blue and white Scottish flag became the red, white and blue Union Jack. This was the flag that flew over the colonies until the spirit of revolution rose. Although the Union Jack did not remain in this country after that revolution, its colors did. FLAGS OF DISCONTENT Long before the revolution the independent character of the colonies was revealed in their flags. There were as many flags as there were colonies, and many state flags today carry some of the early revolutionary symbols. Rhode Island chose a white flag with a blue anchor and the word "Hope" emblazoned on it. A flag in South Carolina had a white crescent and the word "Liberty". On its flag, Massachusetts inscribed "Appeal to Heaven" beneath a pine tree. That the colonists also were beginning to think of themselves as united was shown by several banners representing regions or common causes. The oldest of these was that of New England, which dated back to 1686. It had a solid red field with a red cross in the white canton and a pine tree in the upper left quadrant of the canton. It was a version of this flag that flew at Bunker Hill. Another colonial resistance flag was the "Rebellious Stripes,." the banner of the Sons of Liberty who staged the Boston Tea Party. It showed nine alternating red and white stripes representing the nine colonies that participated in the Stamp Act Congress. Slowly but inexorably, the colors and patters for the American Flag were coming together. JOIN, or DIE A FLAG OF DEFIANCE One of the most powerful and popular of colonial flag symbols was the rattlesnake. Benjamin Franklin used a "curved and sliced" rattler on the masthead of his famous Gazette, with the warning "Join or Die." America's first naval Commander-in-Chief, Esek Hopkins, had for his personal flag a coiled rattler on a yellow field with another warning, "Don't Tread on Me." Many colonists felt the rattler should be a part of the official flag of a united colonies. They argued: "The rattlesnake is found only in America. It has bright eyes with no lids, symbolizing constant vigilance. It never attacks first. It never surrenders. It never strikes without warning. It commonly has 13 separate yet firmly united rattles on its tail. Each rattle makes little noise by itself,but the 13 together alarm the boldest of men." Our flag might have had a rattlesnake but for the still stronger argument of those colonists who could not see "how or why a venomous serpent could be the emblem of a brave and honest folk fighting to be free." It was an argument to which even the rattlesnake yielded. THE RED DUSTER Even after King James VI established the Union Jack, British ships of trade and war showed a red flag with either the Cross of St. George or the Cross of St. Andrew in the upper hoisting corner. NAM VET Newsletter Page 34 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 In 1707, Queen Anne changed that naval ensign. She ordered that the practice of flying the separate crosses be stopped and that the Union Jack be in the flag's corner. The solid red field remained. This flag became known as the British Red Ensign, or, more popularly, the "Red Duster," and was a common sight in early American harbors and settlements. It was this flag that the colonists, early in 1776, altered and, in so doing, signaled the impending outbreak of war with England. SIGNAL OF REVOLUTION On January 1, 1776, six months before the Declaration of Independence, General George Washington ordered a bold new flag raised at the top of Prospect Hill in Charlestown, Massachusetts, and in so doing announced the creation of the Continental Army. The banner was the British "Red Duster" with the Union Jack in the canton, but with six white stripes cutting through the solid red field. This made thirteen alternating red and white stripes, standing for the thirteen colonies at war with England. This flag became known as the "Continental Colors" or the "Grand Union Flag." For six months this was the flag of the united colonies, and on July 4, 1776, became the flag of an independent United States of America. After that day the people of the new country wanted a distinct flag to symbolize their new independence. Almost a year was to pass, however, before the Continental Congress responded. THE BIRTHDAY OF A FLAG As the war with England wore on, a new flag symbolizing a new nation was in order. On June 14, 1777, the Continental Congress concerned itself with a number of routine matters. Two orders of payment of money to John Murray were approved. A letter from Amos Throop of Providence was read and referred to the Maritime Committee. Various monies were appropriated for military purposes in the war with England. And then, almost incidentally, the Congress passed a resolution: "Resolved: that the Flag of the united states be 13 stripes alternate red and white, that the Union be 13 stars white in a blue field representing a new constellation." With no more fanfare than that the old Union Jack that spoke of loyalty to England was removed and a field of stars joined the red and white stripes. Strange as it may seem today, the resolution that created the flag was not even reported in the newspapers until three months later, and the birthdate of our flag - June 14 - was not officially proclaimed Flag Day until 1915! SYMBOL OF A NEW SEA POWER On the same day Congress gave birth to our flag - June 14, 1777 - it also granted a naval commission to John Paul Jones. That single act was to bring early recognition to the flag it had just created. After Jones outfitted his ship, RANGER, he moved into friendly French water. On February 14, 1778, in the harbor of Quiberon, French and American ships exchanged flag salutes. This was the first foreign recognition of the Stars and Stripes. Two months later, Jones met and defeated the British ship, DRAKE, and for the first time the Stars and Stripes was hoisted NAM VET Newsletter Page 35 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 over a defeated vessel. Most importantly, the victory made our flag a symbol to be reckoned with, a fact which Jones underscored dramatically in one of the great sea battles of our early history. Commanding the BON HOMME RICHARD, Jones met and engaged the British SERAPIS on September 23, 1779. At a point in battle when the balance favored the British, Jones was asked to surrender. He replied, "I have not yet begun to fight." The tide of battle and the future of our navy turned. The SERAPIS fell. The leaders of a young nation had created a flag. John Paul Jones gained for it a new measure of respect. DIFFERENT STARS, DIFFERENT STRIPES The flag resolution adopted by Congress on June 14, 1777, was vague, calling only for 13 alternating red and white stripes and 13 white stars on a blue field. Both the stars and stripes were to correspond with the number of states in the union. Perhaps the oldest version of the Stars and Stripes was the Bennington banner, carried on August 16, 1777, during the Battle of Bennington in New York State, just over the Vermont border. This flag carried an arch of 11 stars beneath which was emblazoned "76". The two upper corners of the blue field also carried a star. There were other major differences between the stars and stripes on early banners and the flag we know today. Early flags had stars with four to seven points; today's have five. The field sometimes started and ended with a white stripe making 7 white and 6 red stripes. Today's starts with a red stripe, having 7 red and 6 white. The clear intent of the 1777 flag resolution was to give our nation a single symbol. It led instead to many versions and, unfortunately, many romantic legends and serious doubts about the true origins of the flag. LEGEND OF A LADY The maker of the first Stars and Stripes remains a mystery. The cherished American tradition is that Betsy Ross was given that task by General Washington himself. No authentic records of the time, however, substantiate the story. The annals of the Continental Congress do not. Nor do the personal writings of anyone, including General Washington. All that is known of Betsy Ross is that she was paid 14 pounds, 12 shillings and twopence by the Pennsylvania State Naval Board in May, 1777, for making ships colors. How then, did the legend begin? Surprisingly, Betsy Ross's supposed connection with the first Stars and Stripes was completely unknown until 1870, almost 100 years after the alleged event, when William J. Canby, grandson of Mrs. Ross, read a paper before the Philadelphia Historical Society. Canby's paper was based primarily on recollections of conversations he'd had with his grandmother. It was an appealing tale, and artists and storytellers of the day were quick to embellish it. But the legend has become so widespread and charming that it is still taught in many schools. A THIRST FOR RECOGNITION The name of the designer of the first Stars and Stripes has never been confirmed, although one man did make a formal claim to that honor. That man was a signer of the Declaration of NAM VET Newsletter Page 36 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Independence and a member of the Congress that made the Stars and Stripes our flag on June 14, 1777. In 1780, Francis Hopkinson of New Jersey requested recognition for some "devices" he had created, including "the flag of the United States of America." Hopkinson wanted a small reward for these "labours of fancy" and suggested a "quarter cask of public wine." Congress demanded a more detailed statement. Hopkinson then put a value of nine pounds - about $45 - hard money on his flag design. Congress refused the claim. Hopkinson, angered by the rejection, resigned his governmental position but continued to press for compensation. In 1783, Congress finally decided that "the report relative to the fancy work of F. Hopkinson out not to be acted upon" and he received neither recognition, nor money, nor public wine. There is no question that Hopkinson did some design work on some flag. Whatever work he did do, however, was not regarded seriously, for the flag was to change many more times - both its stars and its stripes. THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER At the height of the war of 1812, an American, Doctor William Beans, was held prisoner aboard a British warship. He would enter history books because he had a young lawyer friend named Francis Scott Key. Key, with President Madison's blessing, agreed to negotiate for the release of his friend. He went to Chesapeake Bay where the British were massing a fleet for a combined land and sea assault on Fort McHenry. He was cordially received aboard the English ship SURPRISE by Admiral Cochrane and General Ross. The General agreed to release Dr. Beans, but not immediately. Key and his party were to stay aboard the ship until the British "had reduced Fort McHenry to ashes." The British poured shells into the fort throughout the night of September 13, 1814. A relentless barrage shook the countryside. The Stars and Stripes did not yield. It continued to wave defiantly, triumphantly. "At dawn's early light" on September 14, Key, so moved by what he had seen, wrote on the back of a letter the words to the Star Spangled Banner. Later, the music of an old English song, "To Anacreon in Heaven" was adapted to his poem, but it was not until 1931 that it was officially designated by Congress as our National Anthem. FIFTEEN STRIPES The flag Francis Scott Key saw over Fort McHenry was unique in several ways. It was the largest of its time, measuring 30 feet wide and 42 feet long and weighing about 200 pounds. The Star Spangled Banner had 15 stripes and was the only official flag of the United States to show more than 13 stripes. It was created by the Congress in the second flag act of January 12, 1794, to recognize the admission of Vermont (1791) and Kentucky (1792). Each was given a star and a stripe. By 1817, five more states had joined the Union and some people suggested that five more stars and stripes be added to the flag. But there was serious objection. "The stripes will become so small as to be indistinguishable," some legislators observed. Debate went on for almost two years until Congressman Wendover of New York made a resolution: go back to the 13 original stripes, but add a single star in the blue field for each new NAM VET Newsletter Page 37 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 state. That proposal became the third flag act, passed on April 4, 1818. Except for the exact arrangement of the stars, which would wait almost another century, the course of our flag's design was set. A SAILOR SIGHTS THE STARS One of the great heroes of the War of 1812 was Captain Samuel Chester Reid, whose 90-man ship, GENERAL ARMSTRONG, repelled a squadron of three British ships with 2,000 men aboard. When the battle ended, Reid's crew had suffered nine casualties, the British 250. Reid was lesser known, however, for his attempts to end confusion over our flag's design. He suggested, for example, specific patterns of stars to designate military, government and private uses of the flag on both land and sea. This idea was not accepted. His proposal to standardize our flag design was also ignored until President Taft made it fact in 1912. One flag Reid did design - with the stars forming one large star - was widely used, but was never officially adopted. His frustrations in trying to bring order out of chaos may have been somewhat eased when, in 1818, he presented to President Monroe a flag his wife had made. The President in turn had it flown over our nation's Capitol. Reid lived to see 14 new stars added to that flag before his death in 1861. THE LAST FOREIGN FLAG By 1836, our flag had 25 stars, and frontiersmen were pushing forward. But vast areas of the land to their west, though settled largely by Americans, lay under the claim of Mexico. Texans won their independence from Mexico in 1836, and for nine years flew a Lone Star flag as an independent republic. On July 4, 1845, Texans voted to join the United States, and on December 29 of that year, the Lone Star became the state flag of Texas and Texas the 28th star of the Union. Mexico, which had never recognized the Republic of Texas, was furious, and declared war on the United States. Almost simultaneously Californians, who also sought independence from Mexico, staged their Bear Flag Revolt - so named because of the homemade flag they carried, which bore a white field, a single star, the words "California Republic" and the figure of a grizzly bear. Their struggle became part of the U.S. war with Mexico. Within six months, Mexico capitulated and a year later, February 2, 1848, signed the Treaty of Guadalupe- Hidalgo, giving up all land claims north of the Rio Grande. On September 9, 1850, California became the 31st star on the nation's flag. Now the young country had its flag flying from the Atlantic on the east to the Pacific on the west. THE BROTHERS PERRY The flags of two brothers are displayed at the U.S. Naval Academy. One of the brothers, in war, helped to make us a naval force; the other, in peace, helped to make us an international trading power. Their acts were separated by 40 years. In 1813, Oliver Hazard Perry won one of the most brilliant naval victories of our history - the Battle of Lake Erie - which marked the first time in history that an entire English naval squadron was lost by surrender. It was during this battle that Perry sent his now-famous message, "We have met the enemy and NAM VET Newsletter Page 38 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 they are ours." Matthew Perry's battle service was not as renowned as that of his brother, but his tested abilities as seaman and diplomat made him President Fillmore's choice to carry a message to the Emperor of Japan requesting trade agreements. On July 8, 1853, Matthew Perry entered the Bay of Yedo (Tokyo) and for the first time in its history, the Stars and Stripes was unfurled in lands of the Far East. The treaty that followed not only established the U.S. as a world maritime force, it also brought far-reaching changes to Japan, for within two generations that nation would rise from feudalism to a status of world power. THE SOUTHERN CROSS At the outbreak of Civil War in 1861, the Confederacy moved quickly to establish its own flag - a flag that would change many times during its short life. The first of the Confederate flags, created in 1861, had three broad stripes - two red and one white. The canton was blue with a circle of white stars, one for each state. In battle, however, this flag looked so much like the Union's that it confused the troops. Because of this confusion, Southern soldiers adopted the famous Southern Cross with 13 white stars along a blue diagonal cross on a red field. In 1863, the battle cross became the canton on a white field. But this flag, when furled, looked like a white flag of truce. To overcome this, the Confederate Congress, on March 4, 1865, added a broad red vertical stripe to the outer half of the white field. But what of the Stars and Stripes during this period? When the Southern states seceded, angry Northerners demanded that the rebel stars be removed from the Union flag, but President Lincoln would not allow it. Throughout the war, the Stars and Stripes flew in the North as it always had. OLD GLORY "Stars and Stripes" and "Star Spangled Banner" seem natural enough names for our flag. Yet a third and less obvious "Old Glory", has become as popular. This is, perhaps, because it came from the heart of a salty New England sailor. William Driver went to sea at 12 and at 18 became master of his own vessel. Before one of his voyages from Salem, Mass., in 1831, his friends gave him a beautiful American flag. As it was raised to the mast of his ship, CHARLES DOGGETT, he was visibly moved and cried out, "I'll call her Old Glory, boys... Old Glory!" His flag followed him throughout his seafaring days and, finally, to Nashville, Tenn., where he retired. There he flew it on all holidays and on his birthday - even at the outbreak of the Civil War to show his belief in the Union. But when the emotions of the war intensified, he sewed Old Glory between the layers of a quilt to prevent its confiscation. When the Union army entered the city, the Captain ripped open the quilt and brought out his flag. He raised it atop the Nashville Capitol and led the Union troops in shouts of "Old Glory, Old Glory!" After the war that story of the Captain and his flag spread and captured the hearts of millions. The name the salty seaman gave her was anchored in history. 31 WORDS NAM VET Newsletter Page 39 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 The Pledge of Allegiance is a model of concise English that captures the meaning and spirit of our country in just 31 words. The words grew out of a meeting of five men - four state superintendents of education and Francis Bellamy, editorial staff member of YOUTH'S COMPANION. They sought a program to commemorate the 400th anniversary of Columbus Day. In August of 1892, Bellamy wrote the pledge. It was published in the YOUTH'S COMPANION, September 8, 1892. Unfortunately, it also became the center of a heated controversy that lasted almost 50 years. The family of James B. Upham, who was also connected with the YOUTH'S COMPANION, claimed that he was the real author of the pledge and went to great lengths to establish that claim. In 1939, the United States Flag Association appointed a committee to determine the authorship of the pledge. "After weighing all evidence they decided that Mr. Bellamy was unquestionably the author." Except for three changes, the Pledge stands as originally penned. In 1923, the words "the flag of the United States" were substituted for "my flag"; in 1924 the words "of America" were added. Finally, President Eisenhower, in 1954, added the words "under God." THE TRUE FABRIC OF THE FLAG Though the salute and pledge take place countless times in countless classrooms, no single American school child can be forced to do either. For years, state legislators and educators tried to make these acts compulsory, and even passed laws and instituted rules to that effect. For a time, their actions were upheld by the United States Supreme Court. But then on June 14, 1943, the Supreme Court, in a 6 to 3 vote, reversed its earlier decisions. Among the many statements written by the Court in handing down its decision was this by Justice Jackson: "If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith thereto." In short, those liberties for which the early colonists fought were the REAL substance of the flag. Compulsory recitation was a denial of the Pledge itself. It seems most fitting that this ruling came when the country itself was at war with tyranny abroad. While other banners were being used to bend people's will to the wishes of a few, the Stars and Stripes was reaffirmed as the symbol of individual liberty. A FLAG THAT RAISED A NATION Geographically, Iwo Jima is an unlikely dot of land to be immortalized. Yet atop the island's Mount Surabachi was raised a Stars and Stripes that would speak as eloquently as any, past or future, of the valor of our fighting men and the price Americans are willing to pay to preserve the freedom and dignity of men everywhere. The battle of Iwo was one of the fiercest our nation ever fought. Three divisions of Marines were pitted against 23,000 Japanese defenders. The first objective was Surabachi, whose 550 foot height commanded the entire island. It took four days to conquer that summit. When it was finally reached an unknown Marine scrambled up the slopes with the colors tied to a Japanese NAM VET Newsletter Page 40 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 iron pipe to signal others still fighting that this victory had been won. AP photographer, Joe Rosenthal, spotted the six Marines raising the eight-foot flag and took the now-famous photograph. The fight for Iwo Jima cost more than 4,000 American lives, including three of the six men involved in the Surabachi flag raising. Rosenthal's photograph captured their valor and love for the flag, and thereby the hearts and minds of America. THE 30-SECOND FLAG Some time ago senators and congressmen, anxious to do something special for the groups before whom they spoke, ceremoniously presented a flag that had "flown over the Capitol of the United States." That practice gained popularity. In 1971, 27,659 such flags were presented; in 1972, an election year, more than 32,000. These are not the same as the huge flag that flies day and night atop the giant staff above the Capitol. They are instead 3 x 5-foot or 5 x 8-foot flags that are raised on three smaller, nearby poles. Some have flown not more than 30 seconds. But they are properly raised, lowered, folded, boxed and certified as having flown above the Capitol. As might be expected, requests are heaviest for flags that have flown on national holidays or special occasions. Fourth of July and Flag Day lead in popularity. Elections and Pearl Harbor are close. Apollo missions also result in large numbers of requests for these flags. The cost? While the people who carry out the flag raisings are on the Federal payroll, the costs involved for the flag, the ceremony, certification and mailing are borne by the individual senators and congressmen, or by their constituents. THE DILEMMA OF DESECRATION In the mid 1960`s, the flag was to face some of its most trying challenges. Aroused by both domestic and foreign issues, some Americans denounced, burned, defaced and subjected the flag to other acts of contempt. On April 21, 1969, the Supreme Court held that the First Amendment's free speech clause forbids punishing Americans denouncing the flag in words. The Court did not act, however, on the question of physical desecration. Here, the existing Federal laws and those of the 50 states and the District of Columbia still apply. These laws vary considerably and are seldom enforced. The Federal Flag Law carries penalties of up to one year in prison and a maximum fine of $1,000. State laws have a wide range which range from minor penalties, to Texas', which can lead to a 25-year prison sentence. In some nations, desecration of the flag is regarded as treason. But Americans hesitate to carry out punishment, believing with one Congressman who suggested that the foundations of the country are not so weak that they cannot withstand the burning of a flag. Instead they respond in what may be a peculiarly American pattern: for every American who desecrates a flag, many others raise theirs higher. A NEW LIFE FOR OLD GLORIES As a child i England, Amelia Bold Fowler showed a remarkable skill for embroidery. She came to the U.S., married, but was soon widowed and faced with supporting two small children. NAM VET Newsletter Page 41 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Teaching embroidery was her answer. She opened a studio in 1896 - at a time when the practice of painting flags was giving way to embroidering them. Admiral Cole of the Naval Academy asked her to make a Stars and Stripes. In five days it was done, and Amelia was established as a flag maker. One day at the Hall of Flags in Massachusetts, Amelia noted the deteriorating condition of historic flags on display. She remembered a 1000-year-old tapestry she had seen in perfect condition in Bayeux, France. She went there, studied, found the "secret", and developed a method of restoration for which she was granted a U.S. patent. Within a short time, she and a staff of more than 40 were continuously engaged in giving new life to the great military banners. In 1914 she was asked to restore the Star Spangled Banner. With her 10 best craftswomen, Amelia worked more than eight weeks to restore the banner now hanging in the Smithsonian Institution. Since Amelia's time, better methods of preservation have been developed. The method considered best today is the one developed in Sweden by Baron Cederstrom in the 1920's. THE FINAL PATTERN It would have appeared after 1818 that the design of the Stars and Stripes had been resolved. The fixing of the stripes at 13 and adding a star for each new state, adopted by Congress on April 4, 1818, seemed specific enough. But not so for the ingenious and individualistic Americans. Flags of all varieties continued to be flown, even above the Capitol itself. Stars were arranged in rows, in circles, as one large star with many stars within, around an anchor and many other patterns. Some showed seven white stripes and six red; others the reverse. Stars had five, six and seven points. In 1837, the confusion was so great that Holland prompted its representatives to ask precisely what the American flag looked like so they could recognize it and avoid any breach of international etiquette. Despite the confusion, it was not until 1912 - with Europe simmering toward war - that it became expedient to decide precisely what our flag would look like. On October 29, 1912, President Taft signed an executive order - No. 1637 - detailing our flag design - pattern and shape of stars, number of red and white stripes, ratio of length to width, the relative sizes and position of all elements. That order has become the basis of the specifications for the flag we know today. MADE IN THE U.S.A. In the almost 200 years since the first flag was made there's been a curious turnabout that seems to reflect our "Yankee ingenuity" and dedication to doing things better. During Colonial times no one in America had the know-how or machinery to produce flag bunting. For almost 90 years, American flags were made of foreign bunting, and were hand-stitched. It was not until February, 1866, that an American-made flag flew over the Capitol in Washington. Since that time countless flags of all sizes have been made and sold in America. Each holiday or special occasion finds Americans flying their flags. One of the oldest American flag makers is reported to make more than 25,000,000 flags each year. But it is not only the American flag that Yankee looms and NAM VET Newsletter Page 42 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 machines make. Whereas two centuries ago the infant U.S. went abroad to insure that its flags were "the finest that could be made," today the flags of more than 150 countries are "Made in the U.S.A." IN SEARCH OF THE STARS On Sunday afternoon, July 20, 1969, Apollo XI brought men to the surface of the moon. In the time-honored tradition of explorers, they carried with them the flag of their country. That flag is there now, braced by a wire spring to keep it unfurled on the windless moon. There will be no legends about the maker of the flag. Manufacturers' names were deliberately removed. Nor is there any attempt to take a singular honor or derive special gain for that flag from this greatest of man's scientific achievements. A simple plaque near it reads: "Here men from the planet Earth first set foot on the moon. July 1969 A.D. We came in peace for all mankind." Future historians may wonder how it came to be that one of Earth's youngest nations was able in less than 200 years to take man from the saddle of a horse and start him on a journey to the stars. The answer is in the stars of its flag - each a story of men seeking to be free and freely joining others to create "under God" a constellation as bright and lasting as any in the firmament. NAM VET Newsletter Page 43 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 STATES BY ORDER OF RATIFICATION OR ADMISSION Delaware . . . . . . . . . . December 7, 1787 Pennsylvania . . . . . . . . December 12, 1787 New Jersey . . . . . . . . . December 18, 1787 Georgia . . . . . . . . . . January 2, 1788 Connecticut . . . . . . . . January 9, 1788 Massachusetts . . . . . . . February 6, 1788 Maryland . . . . . . . . . . April 28, 1788 South Carolina . . . . . . . May 23, 1788 New Hampshire . . . . . . . June 21, 1788 Virginia . . . . . . . . . . June 25, 1788 New York . . . . . . . . . . July 26, 1788 North Carolina . . . . . . . November 21, 1789 Rhode Island . . . . . . . . May 29, 1790 Vermont . . . . . . . . . . March 4, 1791 Kentucky . . . . . . . . . . June 1, 1792 Tennessee . . . . . . . . . June 1, 1796 Ohio . . . . . . . . . . . . March 1, 1803 Louisiana . . . . . . . . . April 30, 1812 Indiana . . . . . . . . . . December 11, 1816 Mississippi . . . . . . . . December 10, 1817 Illinois . . . . . . . . . . December 3, 1818 Alabama . . . . . . . . . . December 14, 1819 Maine . . . . . . . . . . . March 15, 1820 Missouri . . . . . . . . . . August 10, 1821 Arkansas . . . . . . . . . . June 15, 1836 Michigan . . . . . . . . . . January 26, 1837 Florida . . . . . . . . . . March 3, 1845 Texas . . . . . . . . . . . December 29, 1845 Iowa . . . . . . . . . . . . December 28, 1846 Wisconsin . . . . . . . . . May 29, 1848 California . . . . . . . . . September 9, 1850 Minnesota . . . . . . . . . May 11, 1858 Oregon . . . . . . . . . . . February 14, 1859 Kansas . . . . . . . . . . . January 29, 1861 West Virginia . . . . . . . June 20, 1863 Nevada . . . . . . . . . . . October 31, 1864 Nebraska . . . . . . . . . . March 1, 1867 Colorado . . . . . . . . . . August 1, 1876 North Dakota . . . . . . . . November 2, 1889 South Dakota . . . . . . . . November 2, 1889 Montana . . . . . . . . . . November 8, 1889 Washington . . . . . . . . . November 11, 1889 Idaho . . . . . . . . . . . July 3, 1890 Wyoming . . . . . . . . . . July 10, 1890 Utah . . . . . . . . . . . . January 4, 1896 Oklahoma . . . . . . . . . . November 16, 1907 New Mexico . . . . . . . . . January 6, 1912 Arizona . . . . . . . . . . February 14, 1912 Alaska . . . . . . . . . . . January 3, 1959 Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . August 21, 1959 NAM VET Newsletter Page 44 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 BUSH PUSHES FLAG ISSUE From The Berkshire Eagle July 1, 1989 P. A3 Input by: VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA (413-443-6313) ARLINGTON, VA. (AP) -- President Bush stood before the Iwo Jima statue of flag-raising Marines yesterday to press for a constitutional amendment against desecration of the American flag, "the fabric of our nation." Bush is pushing for a proposed amendment, drafted by Republican congressional leaders, that would set aside last week's Supreme Court ruling that extended freedom-of-speech protection to people who burn the flag as a form of political protest. "Our purpose today transcends politics and patriotism," Bush told an audience of several hundred that included many administration officials and GOP members of Congress. The president praised the amendment's language as "stark... simple and to the point." The proposal states: "The Congress and the states shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." Critics have said such an amendment would open the door for erosion of the Constitution's guarantees of freedom of speech and have said Bush is endangering the First Amendment for political gain. But Bush said, "This amendment preserves the widest conceivable range of options for free expression. It applies only to the flag, the unique symbol of our nation." Later, House Speaker Thomas S. Foley told reporters at the White House he prefers legislation to altering the Constitution to accomplish what he says is a worthwhile goal. "My view is that before we amend the Constitution, we should approach the question with a statutory change." Foley said. "We have to be extraordinarily careful before we amend the First Amendment, which is the basic foundation document for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of the press." Bush made his appearance at the Iwo Jima Memorial, a popular landmark on the banks of the Potomac, before leaving Washington in early afternoon for a five-day Fourth of July vacation at his family complex in Kennebunkport, Maine. Bush declared "Our flag will not be desecrated" as he stood in bright sunlight before the bronze statue of six Marines holding aloft a huge American flag. The flag itself is cloth and fluttered gently in a light morning breeze. "To the touch, this flag is merely fabric. But to the heart, the flag represents and reflects the fabric of our nation - our dreams, our destiny, our very fiber as a people," Bush said. NAM VET Newsletter Page 45 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= M E M O R I E S ================================================================= " THE WHITE HORSE " by Rod Germain A death has befallen us a short time ago, The reason for it we can only guess but never know, A man plagued by his fellow man, Down ridden, tortured, until he ran, The paths to choose were few, As his burden grew, and grew, It's substance composed of thoughts, Thoughts of whys and why nots, Why go on in this hell like world, Why not escape to silence and peace, Why not die, Stories as old as time, Tell of a Death Carriage that comes, With horses black as night, In this case stories don't hold true, For the HORSE on this Death Ride was White. DEDICATED TO DITTER WHO DIED 9/25/71 FROM AN OVERDOSE OF HEROIN. HE WAS 18 DAYS SHORT AND GOT A DEAR JOHN LETTER. NAM VET Newsletter Page 46 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 GEORGE WASHINGTON AND THE JEWISH SOLDIER AT VALLEY FORGE Submitted by: Tzipporah Benavraham L'haim Keshernet BBS 1-718-756-7201 In the cold harsh time of the founding of our country, the history books teach us about George Washington at Valley Forge. It was a bleak time for the revolutionary army. Provisions were scarce, and the winter was bitter. Washington, as Commanding Officer, was often pensive and worried about his army and the fact they were in such deprivation. The founding of this country was hard won and done by the heroics of a few men; loyal to the principle that a free land could be established where their families could thrive and the nation could hold dear a citizenry free from a King over 4500 miles away. It was the wintertime that Valley Forge held hard. The winds blew chills into the ramshackle lean-to's housing the Revolutionary and Washington's army. It was the night before the historic battle of Valley Forge. Washington walked pensive around the woods and saw in the distance a small yet persistent light. A fire near the camp grounds? Who is it? An enemy keeping warm? Washington decided to go over to the source of the very small fire in the distance - sword drawn. When he arrived there, he saw a man sitting huddled over several small shells filled with burning oil. Nut shells! With oil! What is this? And then he heard the soldier, one of his own, say the following words: "who has commanded us to kindle the lights of Hanukkah". Washington stood aghast at this utterance. He walked over to the soldier. Gently he placed a hand on his shoulder. He said to him, "You are a Jew! I heard you say an utterance over your lights. You are from a people who have suffered many years of trials and the Bible tells us your people have fought many many wars. Yet you are still here. Your traditions are an eternal light to you. And your small lights of your holiday you hold dear even today in this bleak time. Just as we strive to survive as a nation your people also struggle. I have gained courage from your lights. I have gained courage from your devotion to those things yet higher than ourselves. In respect to your devotion, and your courage to express your beliefs, I will say this: "I know WE will survive. You have brought the survival of the ages to my camp. In honor of that, our battle for freedom will be waged and won." And he stood there with his hand on the soldier's shoulder. The next morning the attack of Valley Forge occurred. In the words of Hanukkah, the words of the Maccabees reclaiming the temple in Jerusalem from the Hasmodians, Washington and his men drew their swords and muskets, and stated the words of Hanukkah: "Not by might and not by power but by spirit alone all men live." NAM VET Newsletter Page 47 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 And the battle of Valley Forge was won with the inspiration of a small menorah, a devoted soldier, and a visionary of a general. NAM VET Newsletter Page 48 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Two Walls by G. Joseph Peck Sysop - VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA (413-443-6313) FidoNet 1:321/203 I heard them talk about putting their duffle bags in a little building by the 'Nam airbase. "Yeah," said one Marine, "Ours stayed in there for 13 months! For you Army and other guys, it was only 12 months before you were picking them up and riding your Freedom Bird home!" Esprit de Corps... loyalty to YOUR branch of service... still strong 15 - 20 years after civilian clothes became, again, the uniform of the day. Outside, puffy white clouds drifted across a full moon as the bus carrying me and members of Pittsfield, MA's Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 65 rolled towards Washington, D.C. and, for me, another face-to-Wall confrontation with "the guilty's". "You didn't serve in 'Nam; you don't know what it feels like to know there's incoming, or someone shooting at you from the bush, or hoping you'll get caught in one of their booby-traps! You've got NO business in the 'Nam church with these guys; Nothing you've experienced will EVER compare with what they've gone through. What are you tagging along for?" Coins clink; an overhead light is turned off; the bathroom door on the bus is opened and closed again. I thought about the time I went in `82 when we dedicated the Memorial. Same feelings. And same ones again when my wife and I went for the Three Soldiers addition in '84. Now its 1989. If "the guilty's" have changed, they've changed for the worse. I remember my kids at home, staying up until the very last moment so they could say good-bye, savoring every second before I left on this trip. So much like so many years ago... There it is. Black granite rising out of the dew- covered,early-morning earth. Names... names... and I didn't get to go. I wanted to - but a jeep accident ended MY military career. Names... Names... Did I know any of 'em? Do I know who any of them were? What honor can I do their loss? Suddenly, time stops - reverses itself. It's 1963 again. There's my buddy Paul! "Joe, you'll want to make the service your career. Look what its done for me! C'mon... remember JFK's words `Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You - Ask What YOU Can Do For Your Country!' Follow me, buddy - I'm leading the way!" Tears; can't catch my breath; can't talk - only sob. There's Paul's name. William P. Townsend, Jr. Like brothers, we'd camped and hiked and grew up together ... and I tried to follow him. Now I can't go past that part of The Wall without a flood of emotions - and even MORE of "the guilty's". The power of The Wall is in its somber silence... On to Arlington and rows upon rows of crisp-white crosses rising uniform to greet the afternoon sun. The same silent NAM VET Newsletter Page 49 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 power I felt at The Wall is present at the gravesite of John F. Kennedy. Silence... memories... To the Iwo Jima statue where one of the dyed-in-the-wool Army-types, at least temporarily, joined the Marines. Quick ride through the city and we were on our way back. Pittsfield, MA at 1215 on Sunday morning found me still silent, still muffled, still tormented by "the guilty's." Monday morning. Early. The rain clouds blew away just before dawn. When the sun rose, its light made everything seem new. Opened car windows let in the fragrance of freshly cut grass and a forest-like odor curiously reminiscent of a time long ago and far away quickly filled my nostrils. Something stirred, began to gnaw at me. A restless, searching, familiar sensation awoke. I turned the car towards my old home town. The still-wet roads looked newly paved and residents of the sleepy little village were just brewing their coffee when I arrived and parked next to the unopened Post Office. Restless still, I began to walk - to retrace footsteps of many years ago. Familiar sights... the old hardware store next door to where we first lived when we moved into town; the new general store that replaced the one that burned a couple of years ago; memories of happy peals of laughter from my now-20-year-old Active Duty Army son as he frolicked and played with the little blonde girl from next door. A mile down the road and I was at the now-empty converted farmhouse where we'd last lived. The three-story treehouse the little blonde girl with sparkling blue eyes and my son built had stood the test of time. "Just a visit, I suppose," I mumbled to myself, "Guess I'd better get back home." Still restless and feeling like my search hadn't yet ended, I took the backroad way home. Past the horse farm. Past the widow's house. Past the Retired Colonel's ranch. Up to the egg farm and turned again towards the main road. The old church at the junction had been new-painted white. Stopping in the driveway, I remembered the owner of the hardware store. He was my friend - one of those special people with a unique ability to make ANYTHING work with just baling wire and masking tape. He'd died fighting an out-of-control grass fire near his home. He was buried in the cemetery behind the church. "Gotta pay my respects to my local friends, too" I told myself, and drove up the dirt road that led to the cemetery. The sweet smell of flowers and damp forest growth filled the air. The morning sun was bright and the air was yet crisp. The view from the hill was breathtaking. I walked towards my friend's grave... and stopped in shock and disbelief when I read the name on the headstone next to his. My friend's granddaughter - the sparkling blue-eyed, blonde-haired girl that used to play with my children and frolic and build treehouses and squeal with laughter! Didn't even reach her 17th birthday! I could feel "the guilty's" starting to come again. Visions of The Wall, of Paul, of the little blonde girl's flower-carved tombstone all begin to blur... and suddenly they all blended into NAM VET Newsletter Page 50 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 one harmonious, peaceful realization. Through the sadness and tears, I thought about the little blonde girl and her life. Not ONCE did she know the fear of having her village attacked; not ONCE did she have to fear that her freedom would be taken from her, or that she couldn't chose to do what she wished with her life. NOT ONCE!!! And 'WHY NOT?' It was BECAUSE of the prices paid by the 2.3-million like those on the bus and here in the IVVEC who'd served in 'Nam; BECAUSE of prices paid by the 8.7-million like myself who had service in other places; and BECAUSE of prices being paid even now by people like my son, that the freedom we all hold so dear has continued to exist! I remember the speech (Don't think I'll EVER forget it). Many of you do, too. "...ask what YOU can do for your country." For the little blonde girl, and many like her - we DID for our country -and its future! We ALL have a right to be proud! Two Walls... one with names and memories and pain; the other with a flower and memories and pain. "The Guilty's?" All I have to do is remind them of the other Wall and the little blonde girl, spend some time with my own and other children, think of THEIR future - and "the guilty's" vanish in the knowledge that I, too, am a part of what has helped keep America great! And though I really don't know what it's like to hear incoming or know that someone is wishing to see ME dead, I DO know what it's like to stand at the ready and be prepared to serve at a moments notice; I DO know what its like to vigorously train and train and train some more to be one of America's finest! And I DO know what it's like to be part of the greatest team on earth! Two Walls... one shows the PRICE; the other, the PRIZE! NAM VET Newsletter Page 51 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= G E N E R A L A R T I C L E S ================================================================= GOING BACK by Tom Condon The HARTFORD (CONN) COURANT from the 4/19/89 Winston-Salem, NC Journal Input by: VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA (413 443-6313) FidoNet 1:321/203 THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON IN AMERICAN, BUT IN VIETNAM IT IS OVER. AND TWO REMARKABLE THINGS ARE HAPPENING OVER THERE: AMERICANS ARE GOING BACK, AND THE VIETNAMESE ARE WELCOMING THEM. HANOI, VIETNAM -- As the Thai Airways jet eased down toward Hanoi, Bill Johnson could see the brown circles of old bomb craters amid the rectangular green rice paddies. In Manchester, Conn., his wife, Deb, and the kids had been afraid of his return to Vietnam, and had pleaded with him not to go. Their fears had seemed unfounded. Now it occurred to him that the years of countless B-52 strikes might have induced people down there to hold a grudge. As the plane landed, Johnson thought about the American prisoners who had been held and tortured in the prison Americans called the "Hanoi Hilton." "It's hard to forget that Hanoi means POW," he said. But the sturdy, brown-haired Johnson wasn't taken prisoner. He was greeted with handshakes and smiles, and taken to the best hotel in town. "They received us very well," he said. Most Americans would probably share Deb Johnson's apprehension, with good reason: The war is still going on in the United States. The grunts and door gunners are still blasting away in the movies and on TV, and the U.S. government still conducts a cold war against Vietnam by means of a trade embargo. As President Bush said in his inaugural address, the war cost America its confidence and sense of mission, and afflicts the country still. But as Bill Johnson learned, the war is over, over here, and two remarkable things are happening in Vietnam: Americans are going back, and Vietnamese are warmly welcoming them. The Rev. David Knight, a minister from Tacoma, Wash., who served as a chaplain with the U.S. Army's 9th Division during the war, said: "It's almost unbelievable. The people are glad to see us, glad we're at peace and looking forward to a future with America." Despite the disapproval of the U.S. government, hundreds of American veterans have returned to Vietnam in the past two years, and many more want to go. "I could have filled three planes," said Gene T. Spanos, a police officer from Rosemont, Ill., who organized Johnson's trip. Some veterans go back because of the same emotions -- grief, nostalgia, lost youth -- that have motivated soldiers since time immemorial to return to their old battlefields. Charles Porzelt, a firefighter and Navy veteran who went back NAM VET Newsletter Page 52 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 last year, said: "It was such a part of growing up. For us it was the senior class trip." But for Porzelt and many other Vietnam veterans, there's more to it. "The difference between World War II and Vietnam vets is that many Vietnam vets have a vague sense of unfinished business," said John McAuliffe, the director of the U.S.-Indochina Reconciliation Project, an exchange program aimed at normalizing relations between the United States and Vietnam. As McAuliffe, an American knowledgeable about postwar Vietnam, explains it, veterans came back from World War II with a sense of a job-well-done, and got on with their lives. They went to school on the GI Bill, got jobs and bought houses in the suburbs. Many Vietnam vets came back confused, wondering what the point was, and have struggled with it ever since. So most of the returning veterans offer a goodwill gesture of some kind, to help put their troubling war experiences to rest. Johnson and Spanos, for example, went to try to locate mines they'd laid 20 years ago as Marine combat engineers. So far this year, a dozen other groups of vets have gone to build or equip hospitals, orphanages and clinics; provide prosthetic devices for amputees; distribute Bibles; accompany high school students; write books; or start exchange programs. "We're doing now what we thought we were doing 20 years ago - helping the Vietnamese people," said Ralph Timperi, a director of the William Joiner Foundation in Boston, which runs numerous Vietnam-related academic, scientific and humanitarian programs. The chance to go back, to make a conciliatory gesture, is "a tremendous way to resolve the war," said Timperi, who was in Vietnam arranging for shipments of medical equipment to clinics across the country. "It's not for everybody -- maybe half the vets are ready to go back -- but it can be a real healing experience," said Michael Castellano of Guilford, a veteran of the Navy whose company, Indochina Communication Services, takes veterans back to Vietnam. "Some guys need to go back," Johnson said. "Their counselors and psychiatrists are telling them to go back, to put it to rest." The thing that has most surprised returning veterans is the friendly attitude of the Vietnamese. "It was surprising. I don't know what I expected, but I didn't expect that," Porzelt said. The Vietnamese are welcoming the veterans in part because they want better relations with the United States, and in part because Buddha frowns on vengeance and living in the past. Phung Cu, a translator and tour guide, said, "Both the Buddhist and Hindu traditions teach that destruction is the beginning of creation, that when a plant is cut a new one will grow from the stem." THIS GRASSROOTS reconciliation between Americans and Vietnamese seems all the more improbable in light of events after the North Vietnamese victory over the American-supported South Vietnamese government in 1975. When North Vietnamese tanks rolled into Saigon April 30, 1975, they ended four decades of war against the Japanese, French and Americans. The country was devastated, exhausted and depleted. The Northerners didn't stage a blood bath, as some expected, but neither did they display a sense of good fellowship. Thousands of Southerners were interned in "re-education camps." NAM VET Newsletter Page 53 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 The country was largely closed to the West. Hundreds of thousands fled, some on very primitive craft, for a better life abroad. The country adopted a Soviet-model, state-run economy, with collective instead of private farms and a ponderous central bureaucracy. It was a disaster. The proud and tough Vietnamese were worse off economically than they had been during the war. By 1985 all they had was the world's fifth largest army, supplied by the Soviets, and a lot of hungry, unemployed people. The country was forced to send groups of laborers to Eastern-bloc countries to repay loans, and had to send fruits and produce to the Soviet Union that might otherwise have been sold for much-needed cash. The highways are in such bad shape that officials had trouble getting food from the lush Mekong Delta in the south to northern provinces that were experiencing food shortages last summer. Hospitals have to re-use catheters and hypodermic needles. Inflation has run at 800 percent to 1,000 percent in the past two years, by the government's own admission, and the leading tourist hotel in Hanoi won't accept the local currency, the dong, from foreign tourists. Such professionals as doctors in the South who were aligned with the old regime make the equivalent of $13 a month, very low even by Vietnamese standards. Northerners have taken important posts in the South, not unlike the carpetbaggers after the U.S. Civil War. A postwar baby boom has left the country of 63 million with a birthrate much higher than its economy can support. FACED WITH OVERWHELMING evidence of failure, the government decided to change. Nguyen Van Linh, the new general secretary of the country's Communist Party, vowed to return farmland to owners and remove corrupt local officials who had taken the best farmland for themselves. He also ordered most of the camps, where some former officials languished for 13 years, emptied. Government officials say that only about 150 people remain in the camps, and that they will eventually be released. The country's 6th Communist Party Congress in late 1986 took steps toward private enterprise. Private shops and factories with 20 or fewer employees were allowed to open, and hundreds sprang up immediately. Farmers were allowed to keep profits from their crops, after a 10 percent government tithe, and food production increased. Nguyen Xuan Oanh, a key government economic adviser and a member of the National Assembly, was the chief architect of this change, and takes pride in it. "I don't call it capitalism. That's a bad word. I call it a market economy," he said, smiling. "We're South Korea 25 years ago." The Vietnamese are inviting Asian and Western businessmen in, assuring them of cheap land and labor. The Japanese, French, Dutch, Australians, Italians, Danes, Germans, Thais and many others are accepting the invitations. Even Club Med, that symbol of Western decadence, is into the act, building a resort in Nam O, a beautiful coastal village known for its fish sauce and firecrackers. "Vietnam is an Asian socialist country becoming an Asian capitalist country," said C. Peter Timmer, a Harvard professor who was in Vietnam in January with a delegation from the school's NAM VET Newsletter Page 54 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Institute for International Development to plan an exchange program. AFTER THE DOORS OPENED in 1985, the first large group of tourists to return was the Viet Kieu, Vietnamese living abroad, including many from the United States, who are a leading source of currency. They also bring in bicycle parts and other necessities. They were followed, mostly in the past two years, by other Western tourists, including the veterans. The country entertained 25,000 tourists in 1987, 38,000 in 1988 and expects 50,000 in 1989, said Tran Tuan Mau, the deputy manager of Vietnam Tourism, the government agency that controls tourism. He said that 30 percent of these are Viet Kieu. He said that 5,000 of the tourists in 1988 were Westerners, including several hundred U.S. Vietnam veterans. The U.S. government, which does not recognize Vietnam, has tried to discourage these visits. Before Miller, who is in law school in Illinois, went back a year ago, he got a letter from the State Department strongly advising him not to make the trip. He laughed and said, "Where were they when I needed them?" and went anyway. The United States has enforced an embargo on trade with Vietnam since the end of the war, under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Tentative talks on resuming normal relations were stopped when Vietnam invaded Cambodia 10 years ago. Vietnam has announced that its troops will leave Cambodia by September if a political settlement is reached, and by next year if one is not. The Vietnamese are also cooperating on other major issues, including POW-MIAs and the departure of Amerasian youngsters. If relations are normalized, the stream of returning veterans will grow, said Bill Kimball of South Lake Tahoe, Calif., a soldier-turned-minister whose Christian-oriented veterans' group, Vets With A Mission, took 5,000 Bibles to Vietnam last month and plans to build an orphanage i Ho Chi Minh City. As for Bill Johnson's mine mission, time will tell what effect it has. The idea received considerable publicity despite a lack of focus. It wasn't clear whether the Marines were going to give Vietnamese officials some homemade maps, or dig for mines, or try to defuse them. As the idea evolved, they would see whether mine fields they planted 20 years ago were still there. If so, they would recommend to both the U.S. and Vietnamese governments that the problem be corrected. Although some Vietnamese officials downplayed it, it was no secret that unexploded ordnance -- mines, shells, rockets and grenades -- is a problem in Vietnam. Dr. Nguyen Binh Ngo, a chemist and government official, delivered a paper that covered the problem at the American Public Health Association's annual meeting in November in Boston. He said that in Binh Tri Thien province, the site of the DMZ and consistent heavy fighting throughout the war, there were an estimated 10 million unexploded mines and shells in 1975. He said that a three-year government program to clear the explosives, from 1975-78, did not get everything. "It was much worse 10 years ago, but it remains a problem," he said. He said that children dig for shell casings to sell as scrap metal and sometimes set off unexploded rounds or mines. NAM VET Newsletter Page 55 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Farmers' plows sometimes do the same thing. He said that 8,000 people since 1975 have been killed or wounded by the explosives. In three days along the old DMZ, Johnson's group found kids digging for shells, heard reports of mine fields, and saw unexploded artillery rounds lying on the ground at two well-known firebase sites, Khe Sanh and Gio Linh. Gio Linh looked like a potato farm, as children dug with hoes for potentially lethal scrap metal. "There must be a hundred kids over there," Johnson said, pointing to the fields. "There's a whole howitzer left and hundreds of shells lying all over the place. I found a kid with a handful of unused M-16 shells." Whether the visit does any good depends on what happens when word of the problem gets around. The Fox Network is planning a documentary on the trip. If the publicity helps start a removal project, they'll consider the trip a success. If not, the Vietnamese at least appreciate the gesture, Ngo said. For Johnson, it was a chance to "make a statement for myself, to do something positive." - 30 - NAM VET Newsletter Page 56 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 Vietnam: A Chance To Understand Input by: VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA (413-443-6313) FidoNet 1:321/203 BACKGROUND OF "Vietnam: A Chance To Understand" [VACTU] In early 1987, Joe Mariani, a former Army LRRP [Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol], suggested to his friend Bob Janicki, a former Marine, that perhaps they should design a course on the Vietnam War. There didn't seem to be very much in school history books on the subject, nor were businesses seemingly demonstrating much activity in Vietnam Veteran matters. Joe thought the time might be ripe to see if there was an interest either in the school or business environment for a program or a course on the Vietnam War. Joe and Bob decided to test the idea on a group of friends they had met at, or through, the New Haven Vets Outreach Center. Bob also suggested they ask an acquaintance of his, Dave Powell, to serve as an advisor. Dave was an era Vet of the Korean War. Part of his job in the same company where Bob worked was the overall responsibility for the corporate affirmative action plans. Bob knew that Dave had been searching for ways their company could demonstrate support for Vietnam Vet concerns. With his military background, with his years of experience in the Affirmative Action area, and with his network of business contacts around the US, Bob thought Dave might offer some professional guidance as well as provide an objective critique of their efforts. Before long a core group of Vietnam in-country cohorts was formed consisting of: Glenn Nordin - an Army machine gunner wounded in combat Jeanne Christie - a Red Cross program director Dave Dubose - a black Army combat infantryman Kathy Emanuelson - an Army evacuation hospital nurse Bob Janicki - a Marine infantry squad leader Joe Mariani - a member of the elite LRRP forces and: Dave Powell - Advisor After a series of meetings, it was decided that there was a message to be told. Specific objectives were not totally defined. The group did want to share their experiences with those who would listen, and if nothing else communicate that not everyone who served in Vietnam reflected the all too frequently portrayed image of a drug-using hippy. Each of the core group is a successful business person who, despite the impact of that war on their personal lives, is a respected member of his/her community. Another common objective was to illustrate that there was no "one Vietnam experience "; each was affected in a different way, as was each of their families. The group decided they should have a name and selected "The Vietnam Vets Alliance for Understanding". The name selected for the program which was to evolve is "Vietnam: A Chance To Understand". [VACTU] With some fear and trepidation, it was decided the program would NAM VET Newsletter Page 57 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 be tested in New Haven, the scene of one of the major anti-Vietnam uprisings in the US: May Day 1970. If it survived New Haven, the hypothesis that people want to know what that war was all about, might be justified. DESCRIPTION OF "Vietnam: A CHANCE TO UNDERSTAND" [VACTU] PROGRAM The program "Vietnam: A Chance To Understand" is divided into 4 segments. I. Introduction 15 minutes before the official program starts, a video tape of war scenes in Vietnam is shown on a screen in the front of the auditorium. Concurrently an audio tape of music that was popular during the Vietnam war era is played on a cassette player. The purpose of this audio-visual prologue is to get the audience settled down, and serve as a transition from the present to the 1960's. Upon completion of these tapes, the moderator comes forward from the audience and gives an 8-10 minute talk about Vietnam which includes: - Vietnam's location and physical characteristics - the cultural inheritance of the Vietnamese as it pertains to war - the uniqueness of the Vietnam war as compared to any other in which the US has been involved II. Speaker Presentations The 6 members of the Alliance are seated in various locations throughout the audience. Just as you don't always know who is a Vet in your neighborhood or at work, so too you are unaware of who is a Vet in the audience. The moderator introduces each speaker individually, identifying their current occupation, the period they served in Vietnam, and their rank and branch of service. When called upon, each speaker comes to the dais in the front of the auditorium and gives a 12-14 minute talk covering: - why they went to Vietnam - what they did in Vietnam - what happened whey they returned to the US - what the impact of their Vietnam experience is on their current lives These are very broad guidelines designed to give some continuity to the program, yet allow freedom of expression. A slide projector is needed for this part of the program; each speaker shows at least one picture taken while he/she was in Vietnam during the presentation. III. Question and Answer Period Upon conclusion of the presentations, the moderator calls the 6 speakers to the front of the auditorium where there is a table, chairs and microphones. The moderator then solicits questions, comments or reactions from the audience. This part of the program is as much of a learning experience as the individual presentations. The questions inevitably open up lines of communications between the speakers and the various constituencies in the audience: students, other Vets, business people, and NAM VET Newsletter Page 58 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 "significant others". IV. Social Conclusion After the formal part of the program, the audience is invited to join the speakers at a nearby location outside the auditorium to share refreshments. This affords those who for some reason might not have wanted to ask a question in front of the whole group, the opportunity to share their thoughts with any one of the speakers privately. It also gives someone the chance to have a speaker elaborate more fully on a subject that was covered earlier. Future considerations for VACTU include inviting other Vietnam Vets with different military backgrounds, as well as a "significant other" who served on the home front, to join the Alliance and serve as panelists. It is important that the participants have different backgrounds and opinions. One of the main learning points from VACTU is that there in not one "Vietnam Experience". Bob Janicki serves as the Corporate Vets Coordinator for the Southern New England Telephone Company located in New Haven, Ct. Anyone interested in acquiring additional information about VACTU or SNET's internal Vets program can contact him at 203-248-0497. Mail inquiries can be sent to the following address: Bob Janicki, SNET Vets Coordinator 130 Leeder Hill Drive, Room 4C Hamden Ct 06517 NAM VET Newsletter Page 59 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= A G E N T O R A N G E ================================================================= THE AGENT ORANGE VETERAN PAYMENT PROGRAM - Answers to your questions... Answers to your questions about THE AGENT ORANGE VETERAN PAYMENT PROGRAM Q. Who may apply for payments under the Program? A. The only people eligible for payments under The Agent Orange Veteran Payment program are: * VIETNAM VETERANS who were exposed to Agent Orange while serving in or near Vietnam at any time between January 1, 1961 and December 31, 1971, and who became totally disabled before their 60th birthday. * SURVIVING SPOUSES OR DEPENDENT CHILDREN OF DECEASED VIETNAM VETERANS who were exposed to Agent Orange while serving in or near Vietnam during that same period, and who died before their 60th birthday. NOTE: the Program will not make payments for disabilities or deaths caused by accidental, traumatic, or self- inflicted injuries. If you are not a member of a group described above, please do not request an Application for Payment kit right now. Your cooperation will help keep the administrative costs of the Program down, and help ensure that your fellow veterans or their families will receive their payments as quickly as possible. You may request an Application kit in the future if you become eligible before the Program ends on December 31, 1994. Q. Is there a toll-free number I can call for more information? A. YES. If you have any questions about this Program or about your eligibility for disability or survivor payments, call 1-800-225-4712. Q. How will "total disability" be determined? A. The Program will define "disability" as: "The inability to work or engage in any substantial, gainful activity by reason of any medically determinable physical or mental impairment which can be expected to result in death OR which has lasted or can be expected to last for a continuous period of not less than 12 months. Q. If I previously filed a preliminary claim form, must I now reapply? A. YES. Even if you filed a preliminary claim form, you MUST now file an Application for Payment form. Q. What kind of evidence must I submit to show that the veteran was exposed to Agent Orange? A. To meet the Court's test of exposure, you will have to supply NAM VET Newsletter Page 60 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 information about the veteran's activity, locations and movements within Vietnam. This exposure test will not PROVE that the veteran was exposed to Agent Orange. The test will only indicate that the veteran may have been in a situation that might have resulted in exposure. You may submit other evidence of exposure if you wish. You will NOT be required to prove that the veteran's death or disability was caused by Agent Orange. Please do not send any information regarding exposure until you have received an Application for Payment kit. Q. What if I did not previously file a preliminary claim form? A. You may request an Application for Payment Kit by calling 1-800-225-4712 - even if you did not file a preliminary claim form. Q. How much money is available for veterans or their survivors under this Program? A. The Court has set aside $170 million (plus interest and earnings) to make payments to totally disabled veterans or families of deceased veterans who were exposed to Agent Orange. Since the size of the total fund is fixed, the amount of each person's payment depends on the total number of veterans or family members who qualify for benefits. Another $52 million has been set aside to provide funds for selected social service programs for Vietnam veterans and their families. Q. How will payments be made under this Program? A. Veterans who are eligible to receive disability payments will receive a payment for each year they are disabled during the life of the Program. The size of each payment will depend on the number of eligible applicants, the veteran's age, and the length of time he or she has been disabled. Survivors of deceased veterans will receive one lump sum payment. The amount of the payment will depend on the number of eligible applicants, the year of death and the veteran's age at the time of death. Q. If I become totally disabled at some time in the future, may I apply for benefits? A. YES. Veterans who are not totally disabled now but who become totally disabled during the life of the Program must apply for payments within 120 days of the onset of total disability. Survivors of a veteran who dies while this Program is still in effect must apply for payment within 120 days of the veteran's death. Q. When will the Program end? A. The Agent Orange Veteran Payment Program will end on December 31, 1994. Applications for Payment will not be accepted after that date. There are many of us out here who are afflicted with our exposure to Agent Orange. I got mine handling Agent Orange drums at Ft. Eustis, VA - A Transportation Depot not too far away from Newport News/Jamestown, VA so, technically, I'm not eligible for any of the above. BUT - it's important to MANY of us and, in the hopes that you or NAM VET Newsletter Page 61 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 someone you know might benefit from the information, it is being reproduced here. NAM VET Newsletter Page 62 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 1989 Schedules of the Mini-Wall Wall "A" - 1989 Jul 02-----08.....Massena NY 12-----18.....Bronx NY 23-----29.....Greenfield MA Aug 01-----13.....Beverly MA 18-----24.....Oneonta NY 27-Sep 04.....Akron OH Sep 11-----17.....Kokomo IN Oct 16-----22.....Mobile AB 27-Nov-02.....Jacksonville FL Nov 11-----17.....Bayaman PR Wall "B" - 1989 Jul 01-----04.....Rockford IL 09-----15.....Laramie WY 19-----25.....Colorado Springs CO Aug 07-----13.....Grand Island NB 17-----23.....Maryville TN 26-Sep-01.....Nashville TN Sep 06-----12.....Round Rock TX 16-----22.....Ventura CA Oct 23-----27.....Orange CA Nov 02-----08.....San Clemente CA Nov 11-----17.....Los Angeles CA NAM VET Newsletter Page 63 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 It's finally here - a patch which acknowledges the other side of the Vietnam Veteran: His wife! Hardly needing any explanation, it is multicolor with Red, White, Blue, Green and Gold for the Map of Vietnam. While the text drawing below doesn't really do it justice, I think if you run it out on your printer, you'll sorta get the idea of how special this unique patch is. They are available for $5 each from VETLink #1 - Dept. 65 P O Box 2056 Pittsfield, MASSACHUSETTS 01202 (Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery) @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@ @@@ @@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@ V I E T N A M V E T S W I F E @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ :@@@@@@@@@@@: :@@@@@@@@@@@: @@@ @@@ @.............@ @.............@ @@@ @@@ @...............@ @...............@ @@@ @@@ @.................@ @.................@ @@@ @@@ (...................@@...................) @@@ @@@ @............. ..............@ @@@ @@@ @.............. MAP OF USA ..............@ @@@ @@@ @................. .................@ @@@ @@@ @................. WITH .................@ @@@ @@@ @.............. ...............@ @@@ @@@ @............... MAP OF ...............@ @@@ @@@ (........ .......) @@@ @@@ @...... VIET NAM SUPERIMPOSED ......@ @@@ @@@ @........ .........@ @@@ @@@ @.......... OVER IT ............@ @@@ @@@ I @ ............................ @ N @@@ @@@ @............................@ @@@ @@@ @..........................@ A @@@ @@@ S @........................@ @@@ @@@ @....................@ M @@@ @@@ T @..................@ @@@ @@@ @................@ @@@ @@@ A @............@ Y @@@ @@@ @..........@ @@@ @@@ N @......@ M @@@ @@@ @..@ @@@ @@@ D @@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ B Y @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ (c) 1988 VVA Chapter #65 Pittsfield, MA NAM VET Newsletter Page 64 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= E L E C T R O N I C V E T S ================================================================= IVVECLST.018 ================================================================== OFFICIAL NODELIST - INTERNATIONAL VIETNAM VETERANS ECHO CONFERENCE ================================================================== If you have any ADDITIONS, DELETIONS, or CHANGES to report, please Contact Woody Carmack at 1:153/130 (1-604-462-8753 Data) or leave a message in the IVVEC. We will acknowledge receipt of your note. ================================================================= NET/ MAX NODE BBS NAME City/State/Country Phone BAUD ================================================================ 632/350 Yarra Valley BBS Melbourne Austr AU 61-3-848-331 1200 114/113 Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ 1-602-894-1470 2400 114/13 Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ 1-602-894-1470 2400 153/123 DAETECH Burnaby BC 1-604-420-2641 9600 153/130 VETSTAR (Northwest) 1-602-462-8752 9600 HST 24 hrs Vietnam Veterans In Canada ( CP ) 153/508 Ebenezer Christian BBS Mission BC 1-604-826-6607 9600 153/133 Hot Line Data Network Langley BC 1-604-533-0421 2400 220/20 Old Frog's Almanac Nanaimo BC 1-604-758-3072 2400 103/507 Philosopher's Log Anaheim CA 1-714-535-1258 9600 200/100 The Board Room Belmont Shores CA 1-213-498-6425 2400 161/502 Wildcat Benicia CA 1-707-746-5820 2400 161/66 Generic BBS Citrus Heights CA 1-916-722-3659 2400 203/66 Generic BBS Citrus Heights CA 1-916-722-3659 2400 161/1 Nerd's Nook Concord CA 1-415-672-2504 9600 202/401 jabberWOCky Escondido CA 1-619-743-9935 2400 161/34 Now and Zen OPUS Fair Oaks CA 1-916-962-1952 9600 161/56 Nat'l Family Forum Freemont, CA 1-415-651-4147 2400 161/7 Mover Mouse BBS Fremont, CA 1-415-883-1644 2400 200/200 CSULB Long Beach, CA 1-213-494-8737 1200 161/39 Nightline Mather AFB, CA 1-916-362-1755 2400 161/509 Enterprize Pinole, CA 1-415-758-1650 2400 NAM VET Newsletter Page 65 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 161/11 The Byte Boutique Sacramento CA 1-916-483-8032 2400 161/5 River City II OPUS Sacramento, CA 1-916-646-9678 9600 161/943 Eagle's Nest Sacramento, CA 1-916-334-2822 9600 10/215 Silver BBS San Diego, CA 1-619-226-4502 2400 125/31 Echo Coord San Francisco CA 1-415-621-5206 9600 DOWN 143/27 Vietnam Veterans Valhalla San Jose CA 1-408-293-7894 2400 Todd Looney 24Hrs 365Days BinkleyTERM 2.0 CM Headquarters, Vietnam Veterans Valhalla * 143/31 Tranquility Base * 143/40 The Dungeon 143/86 Cat's Tail BBS S T O P San Mateo CA 1-415-349-8245 2400 125/78 Living Sober BBS San Mateo, CA 1-415-342-2859 2400 125/12 The Grape Vine Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-546-4938 2400 125/7 Survival Forum Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-545-0746 9600 HST 103/501 Mount Silverthorn Tustin, CA 1-714-544-3369 2400 104/28 Pinecliff BBS Boulder, CO 1-303-444-7073 2400 128/13 COSUG-Colorado's User Clrdo Spg CO 1-404-548-0726 2400 128/16 Firenet Leader Colorado Spring CO 1-303-591-9600 2400 104/739 The Phoenix Parker, CO 1-303-841-9570 2400 104/51 P2 B2 South Denver, CO 1-303-329-3337 2400 141/488 Alice's Restaurant Branford CT 1-203-488-1115 2400 141/250 Wilton Woods Wilton, CT 1-203=762-8481 9600 135/27 Bitsy's Place Miami Beach FL 1-305-865-0495 9600 135/35 The Sober Way Out BBS Miami, FL 1-305-445-6917 2400 363/9 MaMaB--Mark's Bedroom, Orlanda, FL 1-407-894-0807 9600 363/10 Midas Touch Orlando, FL 1-407-648-1133 2400 366/38 Jolly Green Giant Shalimar, FL 1-904-651-3875 9600 370/10 Classic Quick Echo, Athens, GA 1-404-548-0726 2400 370/5 Athens Forum Athens, GA 1-404-546-7857 9600 12/7 HPCUA Honolulu HI 1-808-422-8406 9600 12/1 Aura Net Honolulu, HI 1-808-533-0190 2400 NAM VET Newsletter Page 66 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 115/761 ICS/TRIX 1 OPUS Chicago, IL 1-312-761-7887 2400 115/529 Elk Grove Repeater Elk Grove Vlg IL 1-312-529-1586 2400 115/20 North Shore BBS Evanston, IL 1-312-491-2611 2400 115/429 Chicago Business Evanston, IL 1-312-491-2611 2400 232/4 Runways End OPUS Peoria, IL 1-309-691-5416 9600 HST 11/202 The SouthSide BBS Indianapolis, IN 1-317-882-9330 1200 227/1 Michiana TechLine Mishawaka, IN 1-219-258-0286 9600 227/150 The SX Project Whiting IN 1-219-659-2711 2400 108/90 DATANET Information Syste Erlanger KY 1-606-727-3638 2400 108/50 The ZOO BBS Independence, KY 1-606-283-2040 2400 321/109 PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA 1-413-256-1037 9600 HST 321/203 VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA 1-413-443-6313 2400 G.Joseph Peck 109/722 Ronnie's Roadies BBS Camp Springs MD 1-301-736-0135 1200 109/648 Falcon's Rock College Park, MD 1-301-345-7459 2400 109/124 ZEPHYR National Capital Area 1-703-620-5418 HST 9600 13/33 Avi-Technic Lutherville, MD 1-301-252-0717 9600 13/30 The Futurists BBS Perry Hall, MD 1-301-529-0716 9600 261/628 Liberty Hall Reisterstown, MD 1-301-833-8933 2400 261/628.1 Systemhouse Link Reisterstown, MD 1-301-833-8933 2400 109/717 The Tin Badge BBS Silver Spring, MD 1-301-589-2016 1200 379/201 Metro Link Charlotte, NC 1-704-553-9534 9600 151/601 VMC-BBS Winston-Salem_NC 1-919-744-0883 2400 151/100 NC Central Raleigh, NC 1-919-851-8460 9600 151/1000 REDCON Raleigh, NC 1-919-859-3353 9600 285/622 Friend's BBS Omaha, NE 1-402-896-2669 2400 Joan Renne 132/101 BBS Source Archive Nashua, NH 1-603-888-8179 2400 150/803 Jersey Vertex Moorestown, NJ 1-609-869-0139 2400 1:305/101 NASW New Mexico Las Cruces, NM 1-505-646-2868 2400 381/401 Border Connection Santa Fe NM 1-505-678-1318 2400 NAM VET Newsletter Page 67 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 107/105 NY Transfer Staten Island, NY 1-718-448-2358 2400 108/105 Global Time Systems Cincinnati, OH 1-606-341-7910 2400 157/1 Auer Register Cleveland, OH 1-216-883-0578 2400 110/20 EDS Data Dayton, OH 1-513-455-2431 2400 157/501 The PC-Key BBS Girard OH 1-216-545-9205 2400 385/4 Info-Net Lawton, OK 1-405-357-6181 2400 385/6 Bink's Barn Lawton, OK 1-405-357-2473 2400 147/14 Dark Star TBBS Oklahoma City, OK 1-405-691-0863 9600 148/120 Genetic Research Vat Toronto ON 1-416-480-0551 2400 11/700 FCAU IBM Net Toronto, ON 1-416-427-0682 9600 221/156 Waterloo CBCS PUBLIC Waterloo, ON 1-519-746-5020 9600 221/157 Waterloo CBCS Echomail Waterloo, ON Unpublished 9600 105/16 Net 105 EchoMail Hub Portland, OR 1-503-761-3003 2400 105/61 Shotgun OPUS Portland, OR 1-503-760-4521 2400 157/506 Beacon Hill OPUS Transfer, PA 1-412-962-9514 2400 362/1 The Mines of Moria Chattanooga, TN 1-615-344-9601 2400 362/501 Coconut Telegraph Chattanooga, TN 1-615-698-4858 2400 130/5 CUSSNET UTA Arlington, TX 1-817-273-3966 2400 136/200 The Chai Way II Austin, TX 1-214-358-3738 2400 124/4210 Hardwired Dallas TX 1-214-437-4075 9600 124/4214 *CHRYSALIS* Dallas TX 1-214-895-9054 2400 124/106 CHAI Way II Dallas, TX 1-214-250-3323 9600 124/110 Flying Dutchman Dallas, TX 1-214-642-3436 9600 124/117 NCC-1701 Node 1 Dallas, TX 1-214-240-8821 2400 124/4117 NCC-1701 Dallas, TX 124/14 Chrysalis Dallas, TX 1-214-985-9054 2400 124/200 Dallas Outbound Dallas, TX 1-214-437-4075 2400 124/201 Hardweird Dallas, TX 1-204-931-2987 2400 19/5 Micro Application El Paso TX 1-915-594-9738 2400 106/386 Information Center Exchan Houston TX 1-713-872-4429 2400 NAM VET Newsletter Page 68 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 106/108 Stormy Weather I Houston, TX 1-713-644-4345 9600 106/1108 Stormy Weather II Houston, TX (number & baud unavailable) 106/111 Shutterbug's OPUS Houston, TX 1-713-880-4329 2400 106/113 The Opus Network Houston, TX 1-713-780-4153 2400 106/114 The Fireside Houston, TX 1-713-496-6319 2400 106/357 TMBBS Houston, TX 1-713-497-5433 2400 106/132 Fast BBS OPUS Katy, TX 1-713-392-0093 2400 382/1 Crystal Palace Lake Travis, TX 1-512-339-8037 2400 382/14 Corona Del Mar Rockport, TX 1-512-729-7026 9600 381/201 Pro Link San Angelo, TX 1-915-944-2952 2400 387/401 Comp-U-Gen II San Antonio TX 1-512-496-9373 2400 387/601 NCOA International BBS San Antonio TX 1-512-653-0409 2400 387/800 NCOA International BBS San Antonio TX 1-800-365-6262 2400 109/604 ShanErin Alexandria, VA 1-703-941-8291 2400 109/639 The RENEX BBS Woodbridge, VA 1-703-494-8331 2400 343/111 Lessor Puget TB Edmonds, WA 1-206-742-8067 2400 343/9 Everett OPUS Everett, WA 1-206-355-1295 1200 138/4 PTC Net Mount Vernon, WA 1-206-757-5248 2400 1/217 Region 17 Echo Coord Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-5317 2400 138/101 Story Board Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-5317 9600 138/3 Region 17 ADVISOR EMERITUS Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-9232 2400 138/49 The Cohort Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-2646 9600 138/35 US HDS Human Service Seattle, WA 1-206-442-8127 2400 138/52 Burrell's Ballpark Tacoma, WA 1-206-752-4672 2400 139/640 Fox Valley Tech Appleton, WI 1-414-735-2513 2400 154/200 PC-Express Greenfield, WI 1-414-327-5300 2400 * 261/1004 The PainFrame 1-301-488-7461 UNK * 343/26 AFMINS BBS 1-206-488-4309 9600 HST * 387/801 The Commo Bunker Phone number not available. * 161/208 G.A.D.M. Multi-User Hayward, CA (415) 581-3019 NAM VET Newsletter Page 69 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 * 139/630 APPLEGATE Appleton, WI * 261/1007 FINAL FRONTIER (301) 947-4404 * 344/117 LSO QuickBBS, Everett WA (206)334-3088 9600 HST * 7:49/0 ALTERNET The Flying Dutchman, Grand Prairie, TX * 7:440/1 Lord Frog Of Swamp (715) 362-3895 * 7:43/15 NITEWING HST * Addr Unk AFIMS BBS *WILDCAT* HST PCP (206)488-4309 * 231/70 ISU BBS Terre Haute IN * 170/203 The GUNNER'S MATE * 347/2 Computers on line * 370/11 Classic City Vet's Conference, Athens, GA (404)548-0130 143/20 SeaHunt BBS, Burlington, CA (415) 343-5904 9600 Michael Nelson * 14/703 Telen-Quest BBS (417)882-5108 * 154/288 The Inner Circle * 19/43 McScott's BBS, Blytheville AR, (502)532-6212 9600 HST * 344/9 The Precedent, Everett WA (206)355-1295 * 322/230.0 Denis's OPUS!, Ayer, MA (Ft.Devens) 1-508-772-6373 Denis Marchand * 7:520/563 EEE's BBS, Clifton NJ Ed Edell NAM VET Newsletter Page 70 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= S u b s c r i b e N o w ! ================================================================= The Nam Vet Newsletter is a nonprofit publication available free of charge to anyone wishing to have a copy. It can be obtained in electronic computer format by anyone having access to a computer and modem by dialing up any of the IVVEC hosting bulletin board systems listed in this issue of the Nam Vet. It can also be mailed to you in printed format if you are willing to pay the $1.67 cost for postage and the mailing envelope. If you desire to have the Nam Vet mailed to you in printed format, please complete the subscription form below, clip it out, and mail it to: Nam Vet Newsletter Vietnam Veterans Valhalla 28 Cecil Avenue San Jose, California 95128 If you send your payment in check or money order, please make it payable to Todd Looney. NAME_____________________________________________________________ STREET ADDRESS __________________________________________________ CITY/STATE/ZIP __________________________________________________ AMOUNT ENCLOSED ($1.67 per month desired) _______________________ If this subscription is for someone else, to whom shall we credit the gift? ______________________________________ June89 NAM VET Newsletter Page 71 Volume 3, Number 7 July 1, 1989 ================================================================= L e s t w e n o t f o r g e t ================================================================= O O O SOME GAVE ALL ... ________O__________________________________O______________ ! O O ! ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia ! ! O O ! ! ~~~~~ ~ ~ O~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~~ ~ ~~ O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O) / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ / / O \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~ / PRISONER / \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~~ ~~ / OF /\ \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ / / \ IN \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~ / WAR / ~~ \ \ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / ~ ~~ \ ACTION / ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ! ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow ! !__________________________________________________________! NAM VET Newsletter Page 72