Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | NN NN AAAA MM MM VV VV EEEEEEE TTTTTTTT | | NNN NN AA AA MMM MMM VV VV EE TT | | NN N NN AA AA MM M M MM VV VV EE TT | | NN N NN AA AA MM M MM VV VV EE TT | | NN N NN AAAAAAAA MM MM VV VV EEEEE TT | | NN N NN AA AA MM MM VV VV EE TT | | NN NNN AA AA MM MM V V EE TT | | NN NN AA AA MM MM VVV EEEEEEE TT | | The International Newsletter for Vietnam Veterans | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ DATA NUMBER Editor in Chief: Todd Looney Viet Vets Valhalla Managing Editor: G. Joseph Peck VETLink #1 (413) 443-6313 Distribution Manager: Bob Morris Pole Climber 2 (203) 287-4085 NAM VET's PAPERBOY: Jerry Hindle 7:48/0 --- Section Editors --- PTSD: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NY Transfer (718) 448-2358 AGENT ORANGE: Martin Kroll Ft Mountain BBS (404) 695-8703 MIA-POW: Glenn Toothman Commo Bunker TX 1:387/801 VA INFO: Jim Hildwine ZEPHYR BBS (703) 620-5418 HOMELESS: Lefty Frizzell Executive B'rdroom 1:106/449 INCARCERATED VETS: Todd Looney Viet Vets Valhalla WOMEN VETS: MEMORIES: G. Joseph Peck VETLink #1 (413) 443-6313 | )| NAM VET is a special _+|__|_ electronic newsletter dedicated to * VIETNAM |--- --| VETERANS * around the world and ------------------------=========================== provided as a \_______________________________________________)free service to participants ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ in the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) available on many bulletin boards throughout the United States, Europe, Canada, and Australia. _ Not all of the articles appearing in here | are written by participants in the IVVEC, but NAM VET | is very much an electronic newsletter by, of -----/_\----- and for Vietnam veterans, their -O==============< : >==============O- friends, wives, and lovers. ( ) (...) ( ) The newsletter is comprised of articles and items from individuals and other sources. | We are not responsible | for the content of this information nor are any of NAM VET's |____====________ contributor's or Section Editors ||__________}____)==================|) =============---------------------===_____ /| | | | |\\ \________|__________|_________|_________|/ \\(O)___(O)___(O)___(O)___(O)___(O)// Duplication in any form permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For other use, contact: Todd Looney at (408) 947-7668 G. Joseph Peck at (413) 442-1660 ================================================================= T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S 1. EDITORIALS New from the Valhalla - A Ghost from the Past? ......... 1 Its all comin' together now!!! .......................... 2 2. Missing!!! Until the last comes home... ............................ 4 They haven't forgutten US!!! ............................ 7 IN TOUCH - New FVVM Project! ............................ 8 IN TOUCH Application! ................................... 9 Find that Veteran!!! .................................... 11 3. Remember Them!!! Self Destruction ........................................ 12 A visit or note once in awhile? ......................... 15 4. Hearts n' Minds The Silent Warrior ...................................... 16 Brothers ................................................ 18 Finally Here!!! ......................................... 20 5. Dealing with 'Nam The Silent Shot - A Remembrance ......................... 21 Families on the Brink ................................... 27 One Vet's Path .......................................... 30 6. Our Flag America...WAKE UP! ...................................... 32 7. Agent Orange HERBICIDE USAGE IN VIET NAM ............................. 33 Cancer and the Viet Vet ................................. 36 How VVA victory affects YOU ............................. 38 8. -- MEMORIES -- Here Kitty, Kitty... .................................... 40 I am a Veteran of Vietnam ............................... 44 Faces of Vietnam ........................................ 45 The Walk ................................................ 46 9. -- LITE SIDE -- Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations ...................... 47 Time Frame .............................................. 49 10. SPECIAL PLACES Viet Nam War Museum ..................................... 50 11. SPECIAL NOTICES! Non-Competitive Jobs!!! ................................. 53 12. MOVING WALL SCHEDULE 1989 Schedule of the Mini-Wall .......................... 54 13. Subscribe Now! Subscribe to Nam Vet .................................... 55 14. IVVEC NODELIST arameters of VIETNAM_VETS echoconference... ............. 56 Some Gave All... ........................................ 64 NAM VET Newsletter Page i Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= E D I T O R I A L S ================================================================= New from the Valhalla - A Ghost from the Past? By: Todd Looney NAM VET's Editor-In-Chief Vietnam Veterans Valhalla San Jose, California Well, as you can see, I am still alive and kicking, although in my old age and prime figure my kick is a little weaker and alive seems to be a state of mind more than not at times. But I thought you might like to hear from me. The Valhalla is still operating as a counselling service, although more in the field than in the office. The BBS system *will* be up and running someday again - not this year - but it WILL! I'll keep my nose in the newsletter every month just so you don't forget how big it is or who it belongs to, so that when the Valhalla comes alive on the data waves again, you will be ready for me. Being as the BBS hasn't been operating, I have taken the opportunities at hand and done a lot of field work as I said above. Lately, I've been able to talk to a lot of incarcerated Vietnam veterans in California's penal system, and came up with some astounding results that I haven't seen addressed in the past so thought I'd share it with you. There's nothing really scientific about my finding, or how I went about *finding* it, so you can take it or leave then, but since I've talked with literally *thousands* of Vietnam veterans since Uncle Sam so generously sent me on several all expense-paid tours of Southeast Asia back in 1970 through 1973, I feel qualified to share my gut reactions. I'll leave it to the article later in the NAM VET called "Self-Destruction". For now, have a nice one, and get ready for the second annual issue of the NAM VET coming to BBS systems near you soon! Ciao for niao Todd NAM VET Newsletter Page 1 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Its all comin' together now!!! By: G. Joseph Peck NAM VET's Managing Editor VETLink #1 FidoNet 1:321/203 AlterNet 7:46/203 (413) 443-6313 It's all starting to come together real nice now. As you may have noticed by our new banner, NAM VET now has SECTION EDITORS and Distribution Managers and a real-dependable paperboy whose got a supply of rubber bands ya wouldn't believe - Jerry Hindle. I'm really pleased to see us ALL begin to work together to continue producing an electronic newsletter that keeps ME in somewhat excited anticipation of putting the NEXT issue together and getting it out to all of ya. No more of those mad minutes tryin' to get everythin' all together in time for the next publish-time of Nam Vet - UNLESS - I've procrastinated up until the very last minute and suddenly discover that "Hey, Joe!!! Ya gotta format these things to fit into the NAM VET structure and, d*mnit, ya forgot to spell-check 'em!!!" It wouldn't be possible without YOU, folks - so keep those articles and submissions coming!!! This month has been pretty busy at VETLink #1. I've finally gotten off my duff and decided to install some POINTS - and, thanks to a lot of PD software, the help of some my very knowledgeable and patient software guru's, VET-NET SysOps, and a lot of friends - PLUS a lot of testing, testing, testing... its now possible to set up a minimal POINT that will receive all the VET-NET echo's ON A 360K Floppy Disk! I'm tryin' to get it even smaller so the end-user (the POINT) will be able to SAVE a few of the messages (not too much room left on a 360k after you've gotten a few messages on 'em) and I've evaluated a couple of systems. I'll try to get together an article or two for next month about how things are progressing. You'll notice a few articles in here from Todd - and I'm pleased that he's been able to stay in touch! He's on TDY for about another 4 - 5 months and then we should be hearing much, much more from him. And lastly, there IS somethin' I've said already in the IVVEC but I'd like to repeat it here... somethin' about each of us NOW takin' our rightful places in Life... I was watchin' CNN's "Sonya Live" about a week ago and a discussion was taking place regarding, I guess ya might say Personal Responsibility for one's actions. The way the discussion went, as best I can recollect, is that the first half of our lives is sorta "co-authored" by those around us - family, close friends, institutions and bureaucracies of one form or another. Come to think of it, a LOT of people AND bureaucracies had a LOT to do with MY earlier years. And, yup, they DID have a lot of influence on what I thought, what my values were, what I THOUGHT I wanted to do with MY life. Well anyway, the discussion went on to say that for a person who NAM VET Newsletter Page 2 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 lived to be 90-years-old, the second half of that persons life would begin at 45; for a 70-year-old, 35. It sorta rang a BELL with me! 35-45... the age-bracket of most our Vietnam vets!!! "What about the second half?" I found myself asking. "It's in the second half of a persons life that they begin to take charge, begin to put into practice all those things they learned during that sometimes-trouble-filled first half! It's the time of life when a person becomes the sole author of his or her own life and begins to realize that what they can or can't do is almost entirely up to them and what they LET others do to them!" "Shades of James Allen ("... He thinks in secret, and it comes to pass: Environment is but his looking glass!)!" I found myself saying. "Personal responsibility to the max!!!" By golly, it IS about time we ALL started letting go of those ghosts yesterday, realize that nothing we can do or say NOW will change what happened then, and begin to go forward - forward with all the knowledge and strength we can! I've written an awful lot in the past about our incarcerated and homeless veterans (I even went homeless for a short time to find out, for myself, what it was like, how it felt); I've written MUCH about the un- and underemployed veteran. I've talked to a lot of veterans, marched in many of their parades, Commanded a 500+ member chapter of Disabled Veterans... I've watched a lot of messages in IVVEC... When ya put the "Now its the Second half" overlay over what most of us have said or lived, couple that with all the knowledge and experience we've gained... it sure appears that there's a tremendous amount of good that we're all gonna do in OUR second halves!!! Well, I gotta go... gotta get this month's NAM VET all together and fired out to all you folk who're lookin' for it... Remember our SECOND ANNIVERSARY edition is right around the corner! Due out 11/11/89! Is there an article you've missed that you'd like to see reproduced? Is there an article that's your favorite? Is there an article you've been workin' on and are just waiting for the "right" moment (breathing, sight picture, sight alignment... )??? Now's the time, folks... Set your left margin at 1, your right margin at 66 - and start typin'! When you're all done with it, save it to an ASCII file and then send it to one of the folks listed on the first sheet of this newsletter - or ask your local IVVEC SysOp to forward it on to us... It's a great feelin' when we're all workin' together... 'til next month... Show a brother or sister veteran That YOU care!!! Ci'ao for Ni'ao -Joe- NAM VET Newsletter Page 3 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= M i s s i n g ! ! ! ================================================================= "Until the last comes home..." Input By: Glenn Toothman NAM VET's MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker of Karnes County TX FidoNet 1:387/801 (PVT) From: the National League of Families Newsletter President Bush's Pledge: "Let me simply state the policy of this new Administration. The fullest possible accounting remains a matter of highest national priority. We will do everything a government can do to recover the missing, and if we discover proof of captivity, we will take action to bring our men home... And so long as you must live without knowing the fate of your loved ones, the United States will insist, in the name of humanity, that the governments of Indochina give the fullest possible accounting." Comment: While serving as Vice President, George Bush's commitment was clear. The President is knowledgeable of and conversant on the POW/MIA issue. His reaffirmed commitment was warmly received by all in attendance. Hopefully, the governments of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia received the clear policy messages which the President delivered. ----ACCOUNTING CONTINUES---- Since the last League newsletter on June 30 identification of the remains of the following Americans was announced: (note: VN= North Vietnam; VS= South Vietnam; CB=Cambodia) MAJ Robert G. Cozart, Jr USA Missing since 3/20/70 VS COL Bobby A. Kirby, USAF 12/21/72 VN COL Merrill R. Lewis, Jr USAF 7/20/66 VN SFC Edward D. Reilly, Jr USA 4/26/66 VS CAPT Albert E. Rodriguez USAF 3/11/68 VN CAPT Henry M. Spengler, III USA 4/5/72 VS CW2 Michael B. Varnado, USA 5/2/70 CB COL Don I Williamson, USAF 7/7/65 VN CW2 Charles C. Windeler, Jr. USA 4/5/72 VS The name of one individual was withheld at the request of his next of kin. To each of the families, the League offers understanding and the hope that this final answer brings long-awaited peace of mind. This brings the number of Americans still prisoner, missing and unaccounted for to 2,338. Comment: All of us clearly recall when the number of Americans listed as missing held at "over 2,500" for many years. While the pace is still far too slow, accountability has increased. Answers are being received by a measurably expanded number of families ending their many years of uncertainty. ----SUIT BROUGHT AGAINST FAMILIES:---- During the annual meeting, Chairman of the Board George Brooks was NAM VET Newsletter Page 4 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 served with a civil summons notification that the League is being sued by Homecoming II, a group now reportedly chaired by Ted Sampley, the individual who attempted a forceful takeover of the League's national office on March 30, 1987. His affiliations have included several "groups" and an outrageous publication entitled, "The Bamboo Connection." now being published under the name of "The U.S. Veteran." The summons must be answered. No additional comment is appropriate at this time except to express the board's view that such an action against the families is appalling, particularly by this purported POW/MIA "support group." ----OPERATION RESCUE AGAIN EXPLOITING THE ISSUE---- Operation Rescue's latest fund-raising appeal futures a report attributed to Mr. Deiter Dengler, a POW who escaped in 1966 from imprisonment in Laos after being held with unreturned civilian POW Eugene De Bruin. Mr. Dengler requested that the League publish his very strong objections to Lt. Col Jack Bailey's exploitation through the Operation Rescue fund-raiser. A copy of Mr. Dengler's letter is available upon request to the League office. ----ACTIVITY RELATED TO JAMES "BO" GRITZ---- A flyer reportedly signed by retired Army LTC Gritz purports that an article which appeared in a Thai language newspaper, THAI RATH, stated "Search for GI's in Vietnam - Washington: The Department of Defense announced last Monday that three groups of specialists were being sent to Hanoi to search for American MIA's from the Indochina war. The Vietnamese Government has admitted that there are 21 left alive." The flyer also stated, "The fact that Nothing was released by USIA (United States Information Agency) is clear evidence that the government is covering up information on our live POW's." The correct translation of this article's last sentence follows: "The Vietnamese Government <> If the flyer was actually published and distributed by Gritz, it is another example of the distortions for which he has become noted. ----VA CEMETERY PROGRAM EXPANDED---- The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has expanded services to veterans and their families through a policy change in the National Cemetery System. Many who served in the Armed Forces are unaware of eligibility for this benefit which is earned by all veterans, except those with a dishonorable discharge; the spouse and children of eligible veterans are also entitled to interment in a national cemetery. Additional information may be obtained by contacting the Director, National Cemetery System (40), Attn: Director of Field Operations, Department of Veterans Affairs, 810 Vermont Avenue, NW, Washington, D.C. 20420. ---- EPILOGUE ---- As a final note from the world of the MIA POW issues, please don't forget that there is an Echo Area on the Vet Net for POW/MIA Issues, please feel free to comment and use it... It is a sad state that there is no usage at the present time. Have we forgotten our brethren who have not come home in ANY WAY. Have we NAM VET Newsletter Page 5 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 forgotten our brethren's families that still have the uncertainty of not knowing if their loved one is missing. I have had the honor of visiting both the Wall and the Traveling Wall, and have heard the comments from those who have lost loved ones in the Nam and can show those who follow the name and what happened. My last trip to the Traveling Wall I overheard a Mother telling her adult daughter (yes adult - about 22 or 23 years old) that this was her father, and he had done what needed to be done and had lost his life in the process. These people have the knowledge that the final outcome of the matter is on the wall, but what about the ones who haven't come home, the ones who are carried as MIA, the almost forgotten ones. As far as this Sysop is able to input to the system I will keep putting any materials that I deem appropriate into the system and/or NamVet for all to read and learn. My MIA came home this past May, we buried him on Memorial Day, this was a young man who I knew in my youth, a young man that I looked up to, a man who rode his "Fox Four" into the dirt. He finally came home. A relief to his family and those of us who knew him. My dedication to this issue is for those who still dream of the possibility, however remote, that the loved one may still be alive and able to be returned home. How many times have we (Namvets) said "There, but for the finger of God, was I." meaning that any of us could have become one of the MIA's some of us were for a while, at least POW (no, I was not), if you do nothing else, just take one moment while reading this area of the NamVet and think of those who are still not accounted for. Think of the families of those who are missing, the children, now adults, who have never had the chances to see, feel, hear, touch, smell, and know their Parent. I'll be going along for now, and keep in mind the motto of the MIA/POW ..... ----YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN---- The above Epilogue was written by me, and has come from the innermost area that I allow very few persons, it just came out through my fingertips to you. Glenn NAM VET Newsletter Page 6 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 W W M M W W M M M M W W \ / M M M M OOOO W W W --*-- M M M IIII O O W W W W / \ M M II O O W W W W M M II O O W W M M II O O II PPPPPP O O ..... II AA PP PP OOOO . '' '' .. IIII A A PP PP ..' '.. A A PPPPPPP ..' ''. A A PP ..' '. AAAAAA PP .' ''. A A PP .' '. A A .' .:::::.. '. .' .::::::::::. ' .' .::::::::::::::. '. .' __ .::::::::::::::::;:... '. .' _- -_ .:::::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' _-_ _ _ -_ ::::::::::::::::::::::::' '. .. _- -!!___!!!-_:::::::::::::::::::::::. .. .' ==_ _- _= .:::::::::::::::::::::::: ', . =-_= _= = :::::::::::::::::::::::: . .' =-_ =_- = ::::::::::::::::::::::: '. .' = - -_ =_:::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' -_ -_- .:::::::::::::::::::;;;. '. .' _-_ ..::::::::::::::::::::::::; '. . _ _ .:;:::::::::::::::::::::;, . ' _ .:::::::::::::::::::::::::. '. Y .'.....::::::::::::::::::::::::::;' '. N ::::::::::::::::::::::::' `''' ': O `::::::::::::::::::::::: \v/ \ / :'E `:::::::::::::::::::::: =========================== :' U `:::::::::::::::::::::. /^\ \ :'T `:::::::::::::::::::: .: A `:::::::::::::::::: .:'T `::::::::::::::::::. .;' R `:::::::::::::::::. .;' T `::::::::::::::::. .;' E `:::::::::gjp::: .:' O `:::::::::::::...........'' G N O T F O R " Bring them home --- NOW !!! " NAM VET Newsletter Page 7 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 From: Friends of the VIETNAM VETERANS MEMORIAL 1350 Connecticut Ave N.W. Suite 300 Washington D.C. 20036 Input By: Glenn Toothman NAM VET's MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker of Karnes County TX FidoNet 1:387/801 (PVT) Dear Friend, Do you remember someone whose name is on the Wall? Would you like to participate in a locator project designed to help families, friends, and men and women who served with persons whose names are on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial to locate each other? A friend, relative or fellow veteran of someone who died (or is missing) in Vietnam, may want to talk to you or others who knew him/her. IN TOUCH is a project sponsored by the Friends of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial as part of its program in support of America's Vietnam veterans, their families, and concerned friends. As an organization which promotes the healing legacy of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, we receive frequent requests for help when veterans and families of deceased or missing veterans attempt to find each other. Family members -- especially many young adults who never got to know their fathers -- are now searching for someone who served with their loved ones in Vietnam. They often wish to communicate with each other as well. Tony Cordero, one of our volunteers on the west coast, is coordinating this network of sons and daughters. If needed, similar networks may also be implemented for the parents, siblings and spouses of those who died in Vietnam. Also, many veterans are looking for the families of fellow soldiers with whom they served during the months, weeks or days before they died. Some have pictures, tapes, mementos or stories that they want to pass along to the families. Many are only now realizing the need to make contacts, fulfill promises and heal old wounds. Through IN TOUCH, the Friends of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial will help to extend the healing process. If you would like to participate in IN TOUCH, please complete the application form and note if you want to participate in the sons and daughters network. If you would like more information about this or any of our projects, please write or callus. Sincerely yours, Wanda Ruffin Projects Coordinator NAM VET Newsletter Page 8 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 IN TOUCH - Application Form (may be duplicated) From: Friends of the VIETNAM VETERANS MEMORIAL 1350 Connecticut Ave N.W. Suite 300 Washington D.C. 20036 Input By: Glenn Toothman NAM VET's MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker of Karnes County TX FidoNet 1:387/801 (PVT) If you wish to communicate either by phone or letter with family, friends or fellow veterans of someone who died (or is missing) in Vietnam, please provide as much information as possible about the person whose name is on the Wall. Also indicate if there is a particular relative or friend of the deceased or missing person you wished to contact. If you cannot or do not wish to answer some items, please do not let it prevent you from participating in the project. When we receive applications, we will enter them in our database and periodically we will search for matches and notify the interested parties when matches are found. We are beginning with a small database, but we hope to progress with the availability of adequate funding and national publicity. For this reason, please do not expect an immediate response. Please fill in the following application as completely as possible being careful to check only one of the two boxes and signing below. < > I give permission to the Friends of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial to release my name, address, phone number and relationship to the other participants in the IN TOUCH project seeking information on the individual below (strike out phone number if you do not want it released). - OR - < > I would like to have the names, addresses and phone numbers of persons who knew my friend or relative, but prefer NOT to have my name, address, and phone number released. I hereby release the Friends of the Vietnam Memorial from any and all liability that may arise from the operation of the IN TOUCH project. Signature______________________________ Date___________________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I understand that the success of IN TOUCH depends on adequate funding. Please accept my donation of $_____________ to help support the IN TOUCH project. (optional) NAM VET Newsletter Page 9 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ----PERSON WHO DID NOT COME BACK FROM VIETNAM---- First Name_________________________ Middle Name___________________________ Last Name__________________________ Relationship to You____________________ ----ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT HIM/HER - IF KNOWN---- Birth Date__________________________ SSAN_____________________ Casualty date______________________ Where Buried______________________________ Dates of Service______________________ Service #______________________________ Branch of service (circle) AR NA AF MC CG RC CIV Fill in his/her equivalent unit designations in the area below Division Brigade Regiment Battalion Company Battles in RVN____________________________________________________ Locations (in RVN)________________________________________________ Nicknames (in RVN)________________________________________________ Hometown (when in RVN)____________________________________________ Home State____________________ ----INFORMATION ABOUT YOU---- Title: Mr._____ Ms.____ Mrs.____ Mr. & Mrs.___ Other_______ Your First Name___________________ Middle/Maiden Name_______________ Last Name_________________________________ SSAN_____________________________ Address___________________________________________________________ City_________________________ State______ Zip_________-______ Your Home Phone ( ) ______________ Work Phone ( )___________ ----IF YOU ARE A VIETNAM-ERA VETERAN---- Dates of Service_______________________________ Rank_______________________ Branch of Service (circle one) AR NA AF MC CG RC CIV Fill in your equivalent unit designations in the boxes below Division Brigade Regiment Battalion Company Battles (in VN)___________________________________________________ Locations (in VN)_________________________________________________ Nicknames (in VN)_________________________________________________ Hometown (when in VN)___________________________ Home State _________________ NAM VET Newsletter Page 10 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 "BOOK HELPS TRACE VETS" Input By: Rod Germain Arcadia, CA 91006 CompuServe I.D. # 73267,3355 In my search for ways to gather information on persons who were in the military and how to locate them I have asked for help from anyone who has an idea that has worked. My son who is a medic in the Army Reserves mentioned this to a lady clerk. She said she had heard about a book that does just that, and was nice enough to forward us a copy of the article she read. Here is the article in it's entirety. "BOOK HELPS TRACE VETS" A recently published book, How to Locate Anyone Who is or Has Been in the Military, gives exact instructions on how to find anyone who is or has been in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Coast Guard, their reserve components, or the National Guard. The book includes a section on how to learn about military unit reunions and a directory of all major veteran and military organizations in the United States and how to contact them. The author is Lt. Colonel Richard S. Johnson, who has more than 27 years experience in the Army. The book is available by mail for $9.95 plus $1.05 postage and handling from Military Information Enterprises, Box 340081, Fort Sam Houston, Texas 78234. Just wanted to pass it on to all who are interested. I'm sending for copy. Anybody out there already read it? I'd like to hear if you have. NAM VET Newsletter Page 11 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= R e m e m b e r T h e m ! ! ! ================================================================= Self Destruction Input By: Todd Looney NAM VET's Editor-In-Chief Vietnam Veterans Valhalla San Jose, California Before I get started, let me qualify a few things. When I start with any new individual or group counselling session, I always like to try and lay some groundwork by probing into several periods of the veterans life - Pre-Vietnam, During Vietnam, Post- Vietnam, and the present. I like to know what emotional state dominated the veterans life during these intervals. The important key states I'm interested are self-esteem and ego. As everyone should already be aware, these states play one of the most consequential roles in determining the path we take in our journey through life, and denigrating or harmful states of self-esteem and/or ego can lead us spiralling to our demise (from a growth perspective). The successful care and feeding of one's ego relates directly to the state of ones self-esteem, which in turn relates directly to one's current state of mind with regard to how (s)he approaches the everyday problems cropping up from time to time in life. This "care and feeding" process should, by all rights, be a constant and consistent endeavor to keep our lives intact and on an even keel; during periods of self-destructive episodes which none of us can avoid from time to time, it should be an all-consuming passion. These episodes of self-destruction make up the context of this article. Among the nearly two-hundred Vietnam veteran inmates of the California penal system I've had the opportunity and dubious honor of interviewing during these past few months, I made a startling discovery (for myself at least). TO A MAN, each suffers from one level or another of low self esteem and have inferior ego perspectives of themselves. This is not always on the surface. Many of the vets I have spoken with could put on a great facade, as even *I* have been known to don from time to time when the mood struck me. This facade, however, required energy to maintain, and they had to borrow energy from other guarded areas of their psyche in order to fuel it, which inevitable allowed me to glimpse into the true souls of these men when they were not aware of my interest in that area. "Sure," you say, "but these men are in JAIL from chrissakes! They can't help but be depressed and have low self esteem!". Well, yes and no is my response to you there. Their current predicament does not account for previous episodes of similar amplitude, nor their tendencies to actually *foster* these states of mind. Depression can, many times, result in feelings of low self-esteem. But in a person with an emotionally healthy psyche (not perfect mind you, because no one, I believe, has a perfect emotional psyche), a person recognizes the depressive ramifications and attempts, subconsciously (if not consciously) to *mend* the boo- boo (not a medical term, by the way). Everyone has a varying degree of self-doubt. We all gyrate through fluctuations of one NAM VET Newsletter Page 12 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 magnitude or another. Vietnam veterans I have recently interviewed in jails though ALL suffer through some awesome fluctuations ranging from extremely high to extremely low, and rarely staying long in the middle. Many professional therapists refer to these radical mood swings as "manic". As many of you will agree, I'm sure, self-destructive tendencies often manifest themselves in crime. Among other manifestations are excessive use of drugs and alcohol, and believe it or not ... in sports. Each and every incarcerated Vietnam veteran I interviewed has been living in a mode of self-destruction since they served in Southeast Asia. Absolutely, some of these men exhibited self destructive tendencies *prior* to the war in Vietnam, but EVERY ONE OF THEM has demonstrated inconceivably consistent self-destructive characteristics since their SEA tour(s). Most have abused drugs and alcohol, most took up a life- threatening sport like sky-, scuba-, and bunji-cord diving, automobile and motorcycle racing, etc., etc. What does this all mean? Well, I'm not really sure. I know for myself that I too have gone through periods like this, where I lived "on-the-edge", had that "Don't mean nuthin'!" attitude about my life, put up the facades - the walls. What I do for *myself* is try and get my ego in order so that I can raise my own self- esteem. What I'm doing for these incarcerated Vietnam veterans is the same. I'm letting them know they aren't by any stretch of the word alone in this world, and that not only Vietnam veterans suffer form this disorder. I'm helping them to discover their place in this world - their unique value to mankind. Just because they are felons doesn't mean they are bad people - we are all entitled to our mistakes, and often mistakes like theirs have deeper roots which can be treated. "I've been living on the edge ever since I was in the Nam," says Bob, who served with the 3rd Marines at Khe Sanh during the worst part of the war. "There was an adrenaline rush unlike anything I've ever experienced since," he continued, his eyes looking down at his worn tennis shoes. Bob is serving time for DUI (Driving Under the Influence) and reckless endangerment. He was arrested after a two and a half hour high speed chase where he and the twenty four police cars pursuing him reached speeds of 140 mph. "When I was rotated out of Nam back to the real world, I ... I felt like maybe I shouldn't have been the one to come home." He looked up at me as though looking for some kind of acceptance, or at least acknowledgement of how he felt. And I knew all too well what he meant. Many of us felt as though we should have died in Vietnam and as a result, have been trying to get it over with back in the states as if we were trying to put things right. "My best buddy was blown apart the day after I left," he went on slowly, tears welling in his eyes, "I shoulda been there ... I just shoulda been there, ya know?" Survivors guilt is a common thread among all of the Vietnam vets I interviewed in the penal system. They all felt as though for some reason, if they had stayed, even one more day in some cases, they could have made a difference. They feel as though they were somehow responsible for the deaths of their comrades in their absence. Of course we can all intellectualize that this is absurd. The war had been raging on for years and went on after NAM VET Newsletter Page 13 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 they left. But try and convince a soldier who has believed at the core of his soul for the last twenty years that HE could not be held accountable for what happened when he wasn't there. The ramifications of such deep-seated guilt can be seen in their everyday lives. It has manifested itself in a need to self- destruct, and if this means destroying those around him who he loves, then that's what happens. All self-destructive tendencies are not carried out on a conscious level. We don't *consciously* get up and say to ourselves, "I think I'll OD on drugs, or rip off a grocery store so maybe the cops will shoot me." But these things are all to often the case in the lives of the thousands of Vietnam veterans who are serving time in our country's prisons and jails. It's a mind boggling experience to discover this, and even more overwhelming to know there's nothing I can do about on a major scale. All I can do is talk to them one by one, and maybe I can make a difference. The prison systems themselves may not be very successful in "rehabilitation", but there's nothing to say a guy can't help out a fellow vet who just happens to have strayed over to the wrong side of the tracks for whatever reason. I hope this has made you think about *yourselves*. Maybe we could all stand a little soul-searching from time to time. Helping to heal others is a great way to help heal yourself. Try it out. Ciao for niao! -Todd- NAM VET Newsletter Page 14 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX \ \ \ \ \XXXX XXXXX XXXXX.::::::::::::::.XXXXX INCARCERATED XXXX XXXXX XXXXX --------- XXXXX \ \ \ \ \ \ \XXXX XXXXX .XXXXX W W I I XXXXX. VETERANS \ \XXXX XXXXX ::XXXXX --------- XXXXX::. \ \ \ \ XXXX XXXXX :::XXXXX ------------- XXXXX:::. XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX K O R E A XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX ------------- XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX ------------- XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX V I E T N A M XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX ------------- XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX::::::::::::::::XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX::::::::::::::::XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX::' `::XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX:: ::XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX `..........''`XXXXX:::: XXXX XXXXX ::::XXXXX .:(O) . (O):. XXXXX:::' XXXX XXXXX ::' XXXXX .. XXXXX:: XXXX XXXXX .:' XXXXX . .. XXXXX: XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX . .. ` XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX ' '.. ` XXXXX. XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX" ' ` XXXXX . XXXX XXXXX ``. XXXXX ' . . . ` XXXXX '. ........., XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX'' ..''.'''. XXXXX .' '.XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX" ':.:'' XXXXX .'' .:::'XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX:.. .:XXXXX.'' .::::' .XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX '.. ..:' XXXXX ..:' . .:::'XXXX XXXXX ....::'XXXXX ':::::;' XXXXX .:''. .:::' XXXX XXXXX .:::::' XXXXX .: XXXXX :'. ..:... XXXX XXXXX.::' :: XXXXX: PREPARED TO XXXXX .'' ''.. XXXX XXXXX::' :: XXXXX`: FIGHT XXXXX.' '.XXXX XXXXX' :: XXXXX ``. XXXXX XXXX XXXXX '' XXXXX PREPARED TO XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX DIE ...'XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX `...' XXXXX XXXX XXXXX `..' XXXXX .' XXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX /\ .' .' XXXX XXXXX /\ \ . . XXXX XXXXX / \ \...' `. .' XXXX XXXXX / NOT PREPARED TO BE DESERTED XXXX XXXXX / .'.' . .`.' XXXX XXXXX / ~ | : : : . XXXX XXXXX / |`. : : . .__________ XXXX XXXXX / ~ ~ ||.` ` : || \ / XXXX XXXXX / WRITE OR VISIT AN INCARCERATED VETERAN SOON ! XXXX XXXXX / ~ || . .'. / / XXXX XXXXX/ ~ ~ ~|| ||/ / XXXX XXXXX ~ ~ ~ || || / XXXX XXXXX || || / XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX \_________XXXXX________|| XgjpX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX NAM VET Newsletter Page 15 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= H e a r t s n ' M i n d s ================================================================= THE SILENT WARRIOR By: Karen Winnett S.I.R.E.N. IS CALLING BBS FidoNet 1:203/11 (916) 971-0589 The fire fights have ended and the big guns no longer roar but the Silent Warrior's fighting like he's never fought before! No point man walks before him and no man takes the rear, no comrade stands beside him though death is always near! He humps no hills or valleys and he sweats no jungle heat. He stalks no Vils or cities, yet has no road to retreat. His field pack long abandoned and his rifle gone to rust, The Silent Warrior battles, because, he has no choice, he must! It's a long range operation, the objective long and hard, to the Valley of the Shadow, where only Angels are. The Silent Warrior battles, where no soul should have to go, and no heart can ever reach him, for his battlefield's unknown! Don't look to the north or south, don't look west or east, look to home and know the truth, this is where the warrior bleeds! His campaigns rage in silence, and he battles here at home, his courage goes unnoticed and his valor, few have known! Behold the Silent Warrior, lost deep within his thoughts, his body frozen solid, never never to unlock! What enemy could do this, what hearts could be so cold, to do him such dishonor, a brother of our own! I look into unseeing eyes and I wonder where he is, and damn the souls who were taught to care, yet did a thing like this! Behold this valiant warrior, who never more shall speak, curled up in a fetal ball on antiseptic sheets! His arms and legs contracted, his body old and frail his honor stripped away and lost where love should not have failed! Look gently on this old one, who battles day and night, and let every warrior cry for him, until Valhalla's in his sights. For such are the forgotten, not dead yet not alive, doing battle on the Veterans wards beyond uncaring eyes! Behold the Silent Warrior, who's stillness screams with rage, who wars in fields of solitude, and there, til death, he stays! I have touched the Silent Warrior, and learned to know his pain, I have fed and I have bathed him, and cried when no one came! I have reached down to his anger and held his ruined hands, and I felt the battle raging, and I cursed, "God damn!" NAM VET Newsletter Page 16 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Behold the Silent Warrior, who battles until death, honor him and know his face, stand guard beside his bed. For such are the forgotten, some lost and some abused, victims of a friendly fire we never can undo. Yes, the Fire fights have ended, and the big guns no longer roar, but the Silent Warriors fighting like he never fought before! Go to him, and speak his name, and understand the truth, don't let him die behind the lines, the next warrior could be you! NAM VET Newsletter Page 17 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 " Brothers " By: Landon Thorne (New York City) 1st Lt. 3rd Marine Div, '68-'69 from: WINNING HEARTS AND MINDS: WAR POEMS BY VIETNAM VETERANS. Edited by Larry Rottmann, Jan Barry, and Basil T. Paquet. (c) 1972, 1st Casualty Press, Brooklyn, NY Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VET's PTSD Section Editor NY Transfer BBS FidoNet 13/1033 (718) 448-2358 Send us, Send us far away, Make us believe what our fathers would like to have been Sons we tried to be but we became brothers When we learned how far we had been sent and how far we had to come To be home. We were told to be heroes because if we were Our fathers would have us back, but we became brothers In a blood house, And we were called heroes because of what Our fathers thought we were But we had learned to save a brother Not a father's fear-dream. Who has the right To tell us what we are Or what a brother is not? Who can tell us What to destroy Or what to protect to be heroes? Is a hero a father's sandwich stuffed with politician's baloney and bombast cheese Delivered cold to a mother's doorstep wrapped in bunting tied with glory ribbon To ease the eating -- Our brother? Is a hero one who showed himself urging others to be brave Or is he one who lay still Searching for his soul, NAM VET Newsletter Page 18 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 not finding strength in danger, His passion, his life To bring home -- Our brother? Here we are father, We are home! We may have lost your face -- a presumptive countenance squinting shyly into a mirror of another day -- But other things are still in reach at fair exchange for limbs and life If they have a heart. It may be we cannot change you but we hope to make you see How we have changed, While you have chosen to be father We have fought -- and are fighting -- To be brothers to our sons. NAM VET Newsletter Page 19 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 It's finally here - a patch which acknowledges the other side of the Vietnam Veteran: His wife! Hardly needing any explanation, it is multicolor with Red, White, Blue, Green and Gold for the Map of Vietnam. While the text drawing below doesn't really do it justice, I think if you run it out on your printer, you'll sorta get the idea of how special this unique patch is. They are available for $5 each from VETLink #1 - Dept. 65 P O Box 2056 Pittsfield, MASSACHUSETTS 01202 (Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery) @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@ @@@ @@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@ V I E T N A M V E T S W I F E @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ :@@@@@@@@@@@: :@@@@@@@@@@@: @@@ @@@ @.............@ @.............@ @@@ @@@ @...............@ @...............@ @@@ @@@ @.................@ @.................@ @@@ @@@ (...................@@...................) @@@ @@@ @............. ..............@ @@@ @@@ @.............. MAP OF USA ..............@ @@@ @@@ @................. .................@ @@@ @@@ @................. WITH .................@ @@@ @@@ @.............. ...............@ @@@ @@@ @............... MAP OF ...............@ @@@ @@@ (........ .......) @@@ @@@ @...... VIET NAM SUPERIMPOSED ......@ @@@ @@@ @........ .........@ @@@ @@@ @.......... OVER IT ............@ @@@ @@@ I @ ............................ @ N @@@ @@@ @............................@ @@@ @@@ @..........................@ A @@@ @@@ S @........................@ @@@ @@@ @....................@ M @@@ @@@ T @..................@ @@@ @@@ @................@ @@@ @@@ A @............@ Y @@@ @@@ @..........@ @@@ @@@ N @......@ M @@@ @@@ @..@ @@@ @@@ D @@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ B Y @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ (c) 1988 VVA Chapter #65 Pittsfield, MA NAM VET Newsletter Page 20 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= D e a l i n g w i t h ' N a m ================================================================= The Silent Shot: A Remembrance by a Vietnam Veteran's Wife Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.d. NAM VET's PTSD Section Editor The NY Transfer BBS FidoNet 1:13/1033 (718) 448-2358 from: THE VETERAN, Vol. 18, Nos.1&2, pp.8-10, Winter 1989 - a Publication of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). National Office: PO Box 408594, Chicago, IL 60640 (312) 327-5756. "As I held his body in my arms," he said softly, "he just looked me in the eye, and told me he never heard the shot, the one that hit him. I guess you never do... hear the one that gets you." All the while he spoke to me, his look was distant. As distant as Vietnam. This was just one of his many memories, some of them unbelievable, all of them horrifying. I never say much during these painful recollections. What do you say? What CAN you say? Don't worry about those children you killed over there? Like the one that dropped a grenade in the gas tank of your truck as you drove past, or the cartload of villagers you and your men wiped out because you had a suspicion that some were Viet Cong. Or the old man sitting atop a water buffalo whom you used for target practice. I know you still have nightmares about that one, except it's you instead of the old man. The list goes on and on. And so does the war. Inside of him, and me. It's part of my life too, now. A part I'd just as soon forget, but one I can't ignore. He's tired of fighting and I'm tired of losing -- losing to an enemy I cannot see. Though not in material form, I know he's there. Much like the one he fought eighteen years ago, which to him seems like yesterday, every day. I know what goes through his mind now when he sees little children, or oriental people, or hears a helicopter. Do you smell the napalm, Joe, or the mud you had to lie in for days at a time? Or the dead bodies lying around that are later thrown in a pile to be burned, or to used as human sacks of sand to protect the men in the trenches? I already know where he's at. I only wonder what scene in this never-ending film he's recalling. He hasn't come home yet. I don't know that he ever will. "It's time to feed the dog," I told him in an effort to bring him out of his trance. "Alright...I'll feed him," he replied slowly, as he came back to America. How long will you stay this time, Joe? I wondered to myself. He walked over to the kennel to let the dog out before feeding him. Luke started his usual jumping and ground-stomping, his regular ritual whenever either of us walked up to his kennel. As Joe opened the lock and lifted the latch, he gave the dog a stern "stay" command. But Luke, being the strong-willed and energetic Chesapeake that he is, darted past, raced down to the end of the yard and back up again, all the while Joe calling his name, yelling "Come!" and trying to catch him. I realized as I NAM VET Newsletter Page 21 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 watched that Luke was going to get a harsh correction, although he wasn't the one whom Joe was really angry with. "I told you to COME!" he shouted as the dog grovelled up to him. He grabbed Luke by the scruff of the neck and dragged his 75-pound body back to the kennel door. Luke let out a loud yelp as Joe threw him as best he could into the kennel. As he closed the latch he look at me. He could tell I was hurt. He knew as well as I that Luke didn't deserve that harsh correction, and I can't stand to see Joe take his frustrations out on him. Luke doesn't know about Vietnam. But he does know he has run out of the kennel before, only to receive praise because he did come back and not take off. "I don't think that was necessary," I told him. "I do. He's lucky I didn't choke him." He looked as if he were ready to. "Why do you think we spend time in obedience classes? He knows better." "I think you overreacted," I said. Something he does a lot of these days, but has little control over. "Hey -- I didn't hurt him. I've done worse things in my life." I gave up the argument. I knew it was useless. I also knew, when he had time to calm down, he would regret his actions and hate himself more. As I turned and walked into the house, I thought back on our eight-year relationship. When I first met him, I thought the 14 years between our ages would be a lot to contend with, but that never became a problem. Vietnam did, although I didn't know it at first. He never talked about it. I knew he had been there, but I didn't know much about it. I did have a feeling something was wrong, but I had blamed his sudden mood swings on myself, the only justification I could find. Now I know better, or should I say worse. Neither of us ate dinner that evening, a common occurrence. His loss of appetite was due to stomach pains the doctors call a "spasmodic colon," the result of his bad nerves and/or Agent Orange contamination. My loss of appetite was caused by anxiety over that knowledge. When he first spoke of the chemical Agent Orange, he explained it was a defoliant that had been sprayed to kill existing vegetation in order to leave their enemy fewer places to hide. I was appalled to know the government never admitted for years its adverse health effects. Joe said it had been everywhere, in their food and in their water. They breathed it and lived in it. And knowing the deliberate denial only contributed to the decline in his patriotism, his mistrust in the government, and added fuel to his internal fire. And my own. His mother called later that evening to see if we were coming over for a visit. It was my duty to answer the phone because of his hatred of dealing with people, even family, making it difficult for us to attend family gatherings. I've become his go- between, his protector. I deal with the outside world while he tends to the matter of war. "Are you coming over?" his mother asked. "No, Joe isn't here," I answered, my frequent reply. "Where is he?" "He went to the mountains," I replied, which is more often than not true. He spends a great deal of time in the woods, alone. It's the only place he can relax, somewhat. It helps him more than any drug, which gives credence to the fact that the mind controls the body, if we both weren't proof enough. NAM VET Newsletter Page 22 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 After I convinced her we'd visit later that week, I hung up the phone and undressed for bed. As I did so, I noticed my steady decrease in weight. My mother always voices her concern for my anorexic appearance. I always insist otherwise; it certainly isn't intentional. I'd be quick to invite ten additional pounds if I could return my nerves to their previous state. Before this post-Vietnam life. But I never explained to her, or any family member, the cause of my weight loss. I want to spare them that worry. The worry of knowing I live with a time bomb ready to go off at any moment. It doesn't make it any easier for me, but that's my choice, be it good or bad. Bad, I thought, as I looked in the mirror and noticed another gray hair had crept up on me. I held my jaw; it felt sore from clenching my teeth, an unconscious habit I do throughout the day and often during the night. When I lay down in bed, I noticed my muscles ached from constant tension. He really didn't want this to happen to me. He's been noticing my forgetfulness, my overreactions to the slightest things. I can't abandon him like his friends and his country. No one else will see this through. I may be the only reason he's still alive, though his doctors have often said it gets worse before it gets better. If it gets better. I closed my eyes in an attempt to fall asleep. I let my mind drift, to someplace far away. To a jungle somewhere, dark and dense. Sitting with my back to a tree, not knowing what the next moment would bring. Perhaps a tiger would come sneaking over the wire, and drag me off into the night. Maybe I'd walk into a booby trap, and they'd find me the next morning, impaled by a poisoned pungi-stick through my chest. Or maybe one of our own men would freak out and lose it. I wonder what it would be like to have to shoot one of our own in the back because he couldn't be trusted.... The following day provided a disheartening experience. It was one of the many days Joe was scheduled to see a psychiatrist at the VA hospital. A first for me, the doctor wanted to see us both. I had been to the other VA facility where they dealt mostly with physically impaired veterans, but never to the "nuthouse," as Joe so often calls it. I sipped my morning coffee in an effort to come alive, as I watched Joe smoke cigarette after cigarette and take three tranquilizers and two antidepressants, his usual morning ritual repeated several times a day. And people wonder why he doesn't work. "This is going to be a real trip for you," he told me on the way to the hospital. "This place is always a trip." A good one or a bad one? I thought to myself, but I figured what the answer would be. As we walked up to the hospital doors, I noticed a man sitting on a bench by himself. Joe mentioned he had tried to put a bullet through his head but didn't quite do the job, the result being a reconstructed face and the probable shame of not completing a task he had, in the past, been so well trained to do. We stepped inside the building and walked down a long hallway. Just then a fire alarm went off by mistake, and a man behind us yelled "Incoming! Incoming!" which confirmed he was a patient. We reached the cafeteria and stood in line for coffee. As Joe poured I looked around. I watched a man walk past with part of NAM VET Newsletter Page 23 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 his face missing. A battle wound or another attempted suicide? Joe saw me looking and confirmed the latter, contributing to the statistic that more men have died from suicide than were actually killed in Vietnam. That thought sent chills up my spine. We wandered into the seating area and sat down next to some men Joe knew from group therapy. As he talked with them, I watched the people around us, mostly patients. I could tell by their appearance. Almost all had long hair and beards, and constantly smoked cigarettes. The ones most readily recognizable are those who walk very slowly with blank faces, the result of their heavy medication. The "Thorazine Shuffle" as it's called. One man walked up to our table, spoke to Joe briefly, then walked away. "That guy there, he killed his parents," Joe said. "Is he an inpatient?" I asked. "No," Joe replied. "He's just here to pick up his medication." I wasn't frightened, just saddened. I suppose they're all murderers in a way, though not by choice. The longer I sat there, the more I realized I wasn't all that uncomfortable being in their presence. I guess I knew where they were coming from and what they were all about. And they knew the same of me. I suggested we make our way up to the shrink's office and as we did, Joe mentioned some of the men there never made it home, physically. "They came straight from 'Nam to this place," he said. "Most of their families have forgotten them." We reached the waiting area and, as I took a seat, Joe checked in. I lit a cigarette which I desperately needed by this time, and watched people filter in and out of the waiting room. I noticed an older man in a wheelchair waiting by the elevator. World War II? He didn't appear as if he knew where he was. I watched as he raised his arms as if he were pointing a rifle at an invisible enemy. Then he yelled "BANG" and his arms jerked back as a rifle would kick after being fired. At that point I just wanted to get up and walk out, but I stayed -- if not for Joe then for the sake of the man sitting next to me who was proceeding to tell me his war stories. He was a large man with light brown hair and sunglasses, smoking cigarette after cigarette. Most of what he told me I already knew, but I didn't say anything. He seemed comfortable talking to a complete stranger; maybe he needed someone to talk to. And maybe by listening I was helping him to stay alive just one more day. Someone from the desk called him over and as he walked away, I felt numb with depression. Now I had to talk with this doctor. I knew there wasn't much he could tell me, either. Joe came over and told me I could go in and see the doctor. He didn't want to go in with me, he'd go in by himself when I was through. It didn't matter to me; I just wanted to get out of that place. We met the doctor as we walked down the hall to his room. As Joe wished, I went in by myself. Dr. Peterson was a tall, heavyset man with a balding head and a completely paralyzed left arm. "Joe has what we call Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder," he told me. I nodded. He continued, "I think he should come into the NAM VET Newsletter Page 24 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 hospital for a while; he hasn't been talking these past few sessions. This is a bad time of year for him." This time of year is bad for him, I repeated to myself. Eighteen years ago this time, Joe was due to come home. He had only a month of duty left, and since he was still in one piece, they wanted to send him home that way. So they put someone new -- just over from the States -- into his job, driving his truck. "A young kid," Joe always says. Young? They were all young, just out of high school. Maybe Joe felt older after 13 months of duty. They aged quickly over there. The day the switch of duty took place all the vehicles were blown away, all the men killed. Joe has felt extremely guilty about that. He always felt it should have been him. And along with the guilt comes the vivid memory of having had to clean the truck of all the blood and pieces of friends and comrades he had just spoken to that morning. When he had told me this, I'd realized why it was difficult for him to get close to anyone, and why it took me a long time to break through that barrier. I agreed with the doctor that he should go in the hospital and told him I could talk Joe into going in better than he. I thanked Dr. Peterson and promised to remove all the guns from the house, more for Joe's sake than mine. Within the next week, Joe was an inpatient. I wasn't sure how long he'd be in. I needed the break as much as he did, but I didn't know if his stay would help him or make him worse. It certainly isn't a good environment for someone suffering from anxiety and depression. I did feel safe in that he couldn't hurt himself or anyone else. They're very strict about the personal belongings brought in, and should someone get out of hand, they pin them to the floor, put them in restraints, and throw them in a room by themselves. I knew Joe couldn't handle that. I knew he'd do his best not to lose it. No sooner was Joe out of the hospital than he was gone again. To the woods. The only place he could find a little peace and comfort, away from people. The next day was opening day of deer season. But he wasn't going for the hunt. The absence of his firearms prevented that. He just wanted to be alone. "I don't think I could stand the sight of blood," he told me. I missed him that first night. I had been looking forward to his return from the hospital, although sometimes when he's with me, I feel alone. I missed his presence anyway. As I lay in bed, I wondered where he was at, what he was thinking. I tried to remember the last time he lay in bed beside me. He always sleeps on the couch for fear of hurting me in his sleep. As much as it keeps me close to him, it keeps me away from him. I wondered how much longer I could live this way. . . . Epilogue The woods were just coming alive as I made my way through the fallen leaves and over the trees that lay in my path. The birds' songs echoed through the trees and some squirrels above me chattered loudly, letting everything in hearing range know I was approaching. I was making enough noise, between my footsteps and NAM VET Newsletter Page 25 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 the pick and shovel I dragged behind me, to sound like a small army. I held the urn close to my body and looked around, getting my bearings and realizing why Joe loved the woods so much. It was here he was truly at peace, it was here he would stay. I looked up at one tree and noticed a hunter's treestand that had been left behind. I kept repeating in my mind: Was it truly an accident? That someone would have mistaken Joe's movement through the woods for a deer is not hard to believe; on opening day especially, they'll shoot at anything that moves. I couldn't understand why Joe had not been wearing any fluorescent orange which all hunters are required to wear, even if he weren't hunting. He knew how trigger-happy any hunter can be. I came to a small clearing, with a stand of pines in the center. Among them was a blue spruce, and I picked a spot beneath it. As I dug the hole, I thought to myself: Was it really too much for you, Joe? Have you finally found the peace and freedom you so desperately wanted? Or was it for me? Is this your way of releasing us both? The war that had a hold on both of us, that robbed us of so many things, had ended with his life. I filled the hole, and looked down upon it. I wondered if he heard the shot, the one that got him. I wiped my tears and walked away. Yes, Joe, for me too, the war is finally over. NAM VET Newsletter Page 26 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 "Families on the Brink" By: Aphrodite Matsakis Published in the September '89 edition of The American Legion Input By: Gjoseph Peck NAM VET's Managing Editor VETLink #1 FidoNet 1:321/203 AlterNet 7:46/203 (413) 443-6313 "Aphrodite Matsakis, Ph.D., a VA psychologist since 1975, works at the VA Medical Center in Washington, D.C. Her book, VIETNAM WIVES: WOMEN AND CHILDREN SURVIVING LIFE WITH VETERANS SUFFERING POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, is published by Woodbine House, 10400 Connecticut Ave. #512, Kensington, MD 20895. Cost is $16.95, plus $2.50 for shipping." Vietnam veterans' wives and children are the forgotten warriors of the Vietnam War. For them, the war never ended, it came home. Often they share their lives with veterans afflicted with Post- Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), the name given to a devastating psychological problem that plagues thousands of Vietnam veterans. Since 1969, about 600,000 Vietnam veterans have sought government help for readjustment difficulties. Nationwide, Vet Centers treat about 150,000 veterans a year and an additional 28,000 are in treatment for PTSD in 13 VA Medical Centers which have special PTSD units. "The psychological casualties of Vietnam are increasing. We still haven't seen the peak," said Dr. Ben Jennings, clinical psychologist at the Vet Center in Silver Spring, MD. Many experts agree that between 500,000 and 1 million Vietnam veterans may suffer from PTSD. Some authorities estimate that the number of veterans in need of psychiatric help may reach 1.5 million. Based on this, 900,000 Vietnam wives and more than 1 million children may also be affected. Among the afflicted families is the wife and children of Vietnam veteran "Big Al." Al and his family are real people. Their names have been changed, to protect their privacy, but their problems are real. "I have never set foot in Vietnam. Yet, I consider myself a veteran, too," said Al's wife, Lisa. "Most Vietnam veterans served for only 13 months. I've lived, breathed, slept and fought with that war for 13 years." As the wife of a combat veteran with an untreated case of severe PTSD, Lisa has lived through many crises. Her husband has suffered from the usual symptoms - flashbacks, nightmares, emotional numbing and rage. Every Fourth of July, Veterans Day and Memorial Day, Lisa can expect smashed record albums or another hole in the wall. She can also expect to stay awake all night holding Al. For Al, and many combat veterans, anger and sorrow go hand in hand. "Basically, Al has a good heart," said Lisa. "But he also has anger, which he sometimes directs at everything and everybody, especially me." When Al falls to the floor with flashbacks, or commands her or the children to "walk the point" with him. Lisa and her children fear for their own safety and his. How can they protect him? How can they protect themselves? How long will it take until he "comes back" or kills himself to end his anguish? At such times, Lisa caresses her husband's face NAM VET Newsletter Page 27 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 and tells him, "It's me, Lisa, your wife. You're home, not in 'Nam. It's me, Lisa, your wife and I love you." Lisa never makes rice, Oriental vegetables or any form of barbecue. Rice and burning meat remind Al of Vietnam. Popcorn is also forbidden because Al might react to the sound of popping kernels as if it were gunfire. Even today, most of the family is unaware of the unique stresses of the Vietnam war. Lisa fears that someone will discuss the Vietnam War or politics and send her husband into a rage or another period of emotional numbing. Sometimes Al can stay behind his impenetrable wall for hours, days or weeks. Like many PTSD veterans, he has periods where he is normal, free of pain and anger. But when he withdraws into himself, Lisa feels as if she is married to a stranger. "A part of Al is unknown to us," said Lisa. "His war medals sit in the middle of the living room, and pictures of Vietnam decorate every wall. But neither I nor the children can mention the word VIETNAM. Newspapers, news magazines and war movies are forbidden, as are most feelings. Al just can't take anger or tears. They give him headaches and make his war injuries hurt. "My biggest fear is that someday my husband's depression will engulf him, that I will lose him entirely." The blunting of emotions experienced by Al, is called psychic or emotional numbing, a core symptom of PTSD. It is not a sign of insanity, but a normal reaction to an abnormal amount of stress. Under traumatic conditions such as combat, the person tends to repress feelings of anger, grief, guilt or powerlessness. At the same time, however, he is shutting off his ability to feel positive emotions such as love, joy and tenderness. Psychic numbing has been found not only among Vietnam vets, but also among World War I, World War II and Korean War veterans, as well as among survivors of other traumas. Psychic numbing was necessary for many veterans to emotionally survive the trauma of war. Problems arose, however, when the numb state persisted after the war. While numbing may not necessarily create problems on the job where intimacy is usually not required, it creates havoc in marriage and other close relationships. "I can tell the minute Al walks through the door whether his 'Vietnam Wall' is going to be up for the night," said Lisa. "If it is, there's no chance of sex or any other kind of communication. "But he loves me," she said. "I know he loves me. And he's a good man, an honest man, who is hurting himself. But in hurting himself, he hurts us. The only reason he can't feel for me is because he can't feel for himself." In an effort to better understand the pressures that PTSD can impose on marriage and children, counselors at each of 189 Vet Centers were asked to complete a questionnaire regarding their observations of the impact of PTSD on family life. The following summary is based on the responses of 102 of the 189 Vet Centers existing in 1988. Ninety percent of the counselors agree that some of the most common problems reported by the wives and girlfriends seen at Vet Centers includes: ù Coping with the veteran's emotional numbing; ù Coping with the veteran's hypersensitivity; ù Loneliness and social isolation; ù Coping with the veteran's verbal abuse; ù Fearing to speak to the veteran; NAM VET Newsletter Page 28 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ù Self-doubts created by the veteran's emotional instability or the family's financial problems; ù Feeling that she has lost her identity in constantly responding to the veteran's needs and many family crises; and ù Coping with the veteran's outbursts of anger, such as destruction of property. The patterns in the marriage of Lisa and Al typify some PTSD- afflicted households. However, their marriage cannot be considered representative of all marriages touched by the war. In the first place, not all Vietnam veterans suffer from PTSD. As stated by (American Legion) Nat'l Cmdr. H.F. "Sparky" Gierke in "PTSD: A Lifetime of Nightmares," in the May 1989 issue of THE AMERICAN LEGION MAGAZINE, "The majority of Vietnam veterans came back from the war, went to school, found careers and started families. Yet there are many veterans from that war who cannot sleep at night or who suffer from other problems that can be traced to their combat experiences. Their lives and those of their families are held hostage by PTSD." Secondly, when PTSD does exist, the ways in which it manifests in the veteran and affects his marriage vary considerably from one household to the next. For example, in some cases PTSD is an overpowering phenomenon that almost totally dominates the life or personality of the veteran, rendering him incapable of working full time for any significant period. In other cases, the veteran has only a mild case of PTSD and rarely experiences symptoms, except when current stresses arise in his life or on the anniversary of the death of a buddy or an important battle. Otherwise, he may be minimally affected. Sometimes the PTSD is hidden. For example, there are veterans with no outward signs of problems who are economically prosperous because of their workaholism, which may represent a means of dealing with, or not dealing with, Vietnam experiences. Some of these successful veterans may be trying to escape their inner torment via achievement. Nevertheless, if they have psychic numbing and adopt a lifestyle devoid of emotion, they may be alienated from their families and, over time, their families may emotionally divorce them. The people and problems discussed in this article are based on clinical experience and research on veteran families who have sought help at Vet Centers, not on the Vietnam veteran population as a whole. Thus, their concerns do not necessarily reflect those of Vietnam veterans and wives who have not sought help. Help is available at VA Medical Centers and at 189 Vietnam Veteran's Outreach Centers. Yet, many suffering veterans and their wives fail to reach out for this help because of the stigma associated with being in emotional pain. Many veterans suffer in silence rather than risk being identified as a "crybaby," "complainer" or "veteran with problems." Seeking help is an act of courage and honesty, not a sign of weakness and many who have sought help have benefited immensely. NAM VET Newsletter Page 29 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 "Healing from the War: One Vet's Path" By: Stan Campbell Member, VVAW Rockford, Illinois from: THE VETERAN, Spring 1989, Vol. 19, No.1 page 10. - a publication of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). National Office: PO Box 408594, Chicago, IL 60640. Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VET's PTSD Section Editor NY Transfer BBS FidoNet 13/1033 (718) 448-2358 I first went to Vietnam in 1970 thinking this would be a noble cause, but I returned knowing it was a horrible mistake. I remember serving with the best group of men and women our country had to offer. I'm glad I went. I am glad I served in Vietnam because I was a firm anti- communist that thought we could kill commies from thirty thousand feet with high explosives. I learned you cannot tell the communists from the normal people who wanted their own country. I am glad I served in Vietnam because I learned to hate war. So I am very happy to return to Vietnam, to lay some ghosts to rest, to work for the return of my comrades' remains, and to seek reconciliation, if not between our two countries, then perhaps between the people who actually did the fighting. Returning to Vietnam was a joyful experience, for this is where I learned to love peace, to rejoice in the humanity of all, and to begin seriously questioning my government's foreign policy. Our country dumped more bombs on Vietnam than on any other country, so I was really surprised when people greeted us with joy and laughter when we told them, "No, we are not Russians, we are Americans." And when they discovered that we were veterans, they quickly ran to get someone who could speak better English, sat us down, and peppered us with questions: "What do you think of our country?" "Why are you here?" "Will more of you visit?" The days were full of meetings and sightseeing, but we had plenty of time to ourselves. Housed in government guest houses, we soon found English-speaking cyclo drivers (bicycles with big seats) who took us on unescorted tours. The beauty of the countryside -- the green beyond any green -- left impressions on me. The poverty is appalling, especially in the south. Former ARVN (South Vietnamese Army veterans) are not treated well, and there is a general malaise on the economy. "We learned the hard way that you cannot disobey the law of the market," said Foreign Minister Dang Nghiem Bai, director of the American Department. "You cannot build socialism while people are walking around without pants. We tried to build a country the same way as we fought the war. We won the war, but lost the economy. The government cannot forever subsidize businesses that lose money. We lost 89% through subsidies; now, with a quasi- market economy, we only lose 20%." Hard words, but you wonder if the government will respond to the challenge. The Vietnamese economy sucks; everyone knows it. The remarkable thing is, everyone has an opinion. Hard-liners NAM VET Newsletter Page 30 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 say, "The Vietnamese people can reconstruct the country themselves, with the help of our friends." "Our friends" does not include the U.S. The head of the VN-US Friendship Society was blunt when he said, "We have had to fire 'heroes of the revolution' from economic positions because they could not run the country." Outdoors, I shopped. I loved the markets, and the prices were amazingly low. The marketplace has had a boost from the government's new "hands-off" (comparatively) approach -- lots of people buy in bulk and sell on the street. Cafes open as boxes overturned on a street corner, the patrons sipping at the sludge called coffee, purchasing tobacco by the cigarette or by the bowl for their individual bongs. Marijuana is cheaper than tobacco and we caught a whiff of the illegal memory down some of these back streets. I bought a pair of scissors that were cut, themselves, by hand and pounded into shape: primitive handmade scissors! They had drop-forged stainless steel scissors at government shops (at high prices -- no more subsidy). People will set up shop selling anything, and they seem to locate themselves in "districts" -- one street dedicated to shoes, the next stocked with larger items: furniture, televisions (assembled in Vietnam for Japan), but in Hanoi, it was spartan living. Ho Chi Minh City is more a tourist town. The climate and the people are warmer (all Vietnam is friendly). Bars are more prevalent, but Hanoi is beginning to swing -- with a disco, some dancing, western dress (coming from the south?) and even bar "girls." Just for the sake of investigating decadence in the capital of Marxism-Leninism, we allowed ourselves to be taken, and we were: thirty bucks for a short time with b-"girls," American coke, and Asian rock 'n' roll at the Cafe Mademoiselle; our hosts: the cyclo drivers! You can see a worn, almost desperate, Saigon. We are well fed: five-course meals for six people for ten bucks. But there were beggars on many streets, and the streets closed up after eleven pm, leaving it to the many homeless men, women and children. We were approached many times with appeals for help, and sometimes with appeals to "help me leave." Vietnam is going to get a good dose of capitalism. While I was eating dinner at the Cuban-built Liberty Hotel, a swarm of 25 Japanese businessmen descended on the place. The American Embassy official we spoke with in Bangkok, Thailand, said the US was having a fit keeping Australia and Japan from buying up Vietnam. Lumber, shrimp farms, tourism, cheap labor, and undeveloped natural resources make Vietnam a dream for venture capital. If anything can bring Vietnam and the United States together, it will be the chance to make a buck.! NAM VET Newsletter Page 31 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= O u r F l a g ================================================================= WHAT DO YOU MEAN "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION?" By: Claude F. Witherspoon SEGUARO BBS FidoNet 1:288/525 (618-656-5447) I sit here with seven months before retirement from the Armed Forces of this great nation. Twenty years for THIS!, something the U.S. Supreme Court calls "A form of their artistic expression or freedom of speech". I'm outraged at this freedom of expression. An expression a Texan would use is "CRAP!" cause that's what it is. I'm talking about FLAG BURNING. The same flag that I used to pledge allegiance too. Does anyone even remember those days. "One nation for which it stands"...etc. I recall that around 1971 there was another law passed to prohibit prayer in schools. What replaced prayer in the halls of our school, drugs and drug users. Hey, "you've come a long way baby". As Merl would put it, "Are we rollin down hill like a snowball headed for Hell?" It sure looks that way to me. They took my rights of personal expression away (prayer in school) and gave flag burning back to us as a form of personal expression. Where is the logic?... I think they all just sit up there and get high. I really get concerned when I think these people may be the same people who think their artistic expression to burn my flag is more important than my moral decision to defend it. Think about it... America wake up! Are we really gonna stand by and let them force this crap on us? What if someone says it's his personal right by freedom of expression, to kick MORE dirt in the face of a veteran. Isn't that exactly what they're saying to us? Are they gonna punish us for defending the flag on the streets of America? We defended it all over the world only to come home to this kinda mentality, train of thought (Ha!, that's a good one), etc. It's just a shame that so many of our women and men have died on foreign soil protecting that flag, only to have our government allow it to be burned right here on American soil. I want my RIGHT to kick the living CRAP outa some jerk that is burning my flag. After all, it's my FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. Sheesh... see how silly that sounds. The flag issue has been running hot and heavy on Capitol Hill, but members of Congress say it's cooling off now. The chairman of the House Judiciary Subcommittee, who conducted hearings on flag burning, reports that more witnesses are leaning toward legislation rather than a Constitutional amendment. Let's not just sit by and watch this silliness take place. If you want to see a Constitutional amendment to prohibit desecration of the flag, then write to your elected representatives. Now! before (as usual), it's TOO LATE!... Ha... Ha... Ha... they'd just love you to drag your feet on this one. Rape is next. Fellow veterans, unite! NAM VET Newsletter Page 32 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= A g e n t O r a n g e ================================================================= HERBICIDE USAGE IN VIET NAM By: Martin H. Kroll NAM VET's Agent Orange Section Editor Fort Mountain PCBoard BBS Chatsworth, GA (404) 695-8703 According to figures released by the Veteran's Administration Review of Literature on Herbicides in October of 1981, there was a total of approximately 19 million gallons of herbicides used during the Viet Nam Conflict. Of this amount, a little over 11 million gallons of the herbicides used was the now famous "Agent Orange". Just imagine 19 million gallons of herbicides being sprayed in South Viet Nam which is approximately half the size of the state of California. Take into account that not all areas of the country were sprayed if you exclude the cities, villages, and rice paddies and you will begin to realize that quite a bit of poison was dropped over there. Furthermore, 16 million gallons was used in just a four year period from 1966 thru 1969 with the heaviest spraying taking place in 1967. The EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) has stated that any exposure to Dioxin is toxic to humans according to NIOSH Bulletin #40, published in 1984. You would not have to be directly sprayed in order to be exposed to Dioxin. You could be exposed in many ways which would include eating contaminated food, bathing or showering in contaminated water, breathing contaminated dust, or contact with the skin or inhalation of spraying drift. I, as many of us will, remember eating snacks and meals in the villages, showering in water hauled from local water holes, breathing tons of dust while on convoy duty, and even watching the jungles being sprayed. If you share these memories with me, what do you think the chances of our being exposed to Dioxin really are? Was the perimeter of your camp sprayed with Agent Orange? Were the roadways that you travelled sprayed with Agent Orange? I am not even going to argue the point about if the Government did or did not know about the toxicity of Agent Orange. What is important to me is that the Government "did" authorize the usage of Agent Orange in South Viet Nam and "did" carry out the application of the chemicals. I am convinced that most of our Veterans who served in South Viet Nam between 1966 and 1969 were indeed exposed to Dioxin! I also want to raise another issue here that we never hear much about. Most of us Viet Nam Veterans were only in South Viet Nam for one or two years. How about the women and children of South Viet Nam who had to stay behind? How long did the Dioxin remain toxic in the soil of South Viet Nam? Should the United States of America be liable for health problems caused by Dioxin exposure to South Vietnamese civilians? Should the United States of America be liable for health problems suffered by our Veterans due to exposure to Agent Orange? It has been stated that the Veteran's Administration began receiving claims in 1978 for disabilities related to Agent Orange. NAM VET Newsletter Page 33 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 I submitted my claim in 1972 only to be denied. I had met a police officer who was also a Viet Nam Veteran and upon seeing the condition of my skin, he advised me that he thought it was connected to the herbicides used in Viet Nam and urged me to apply for benefits. I received a reply from the Veteran's Administration Regional Office in Nashville, Tennessee dated October 11, 1972. In the upper left hand corner it stated "In Reply Refer to: C XX XXX XXX (Veterans Claim # removed by Editor), 320/211." I was granted necessary treatment by the Veteran's Administration for my service connected back injury (which has never really bothered me and I have sought no treatment), but when it came to the part of my claim about my skin condition, it was flat out denied! The letter stated "It was further determined that your disability of contacted dermatitis, was not incurred in or aggravated by your period of military service. Therefore, service connection cannot be established for this condition." Signed...D.W. Williams, Adjudication Officer. Enclosed in the envelope was a form 21-4107 notifying me of my Right to Appeal. I mailed my notice of disagreement on October 28, 1972, and never heard from the VA about it again. Several phone calls got me promises of "I'll check into it for you and get back to you". No one ever contacted me again. Thus, my initiation to the ways of the VA and the United States Government. What really tears me up about all this is that I know that many Viet Nam Veterans have died from cancer since returning home. They are just as much a casualty of the Viet Nam War as the ones killed in action. The difference is that they just got to live a little longer and leave children behind who may also have problems because their father was exposed to Agent Orange. Our Government will "rush" to the aid of people all around the globe and pour out billions of dollars to help them, but when it comes to helping our own they seem to turn a deaf ear. Even if I had the money and were so inclined to seek legal action against the US Government, the "law" says that I can not do so. The amount of money that the Class Action Lawsuit against the chemical companies gained would not even begin to pay for an initial physical examination if it were divided equally among all Viet Nam Veterans that may have been exposed to Agent Orange. I guess we should just forget about any treatment, huh? For many Veterans the hard part to all of this is the "just not knowing." We walk around wondering what the degree of our exposure really was. We wonder if our life will be cut short because of AO or will we be one of the lucky ones. We wonder if our children's ailments are because of it and if their life also will be cut short. And we wonder why the Government is not making a better effort to seek out its Viet Nam Veterans and do whatever it can to help. I will be sending a letter to President George Bush in the near future and hope to publish this letter in the NamVet Newsletter. I also hope to publish his reply, if indeed he does reply at all. My only fear is that he will not personally receive my letter and that I will receive a reply from someone who could care less about our concerns informing me that Mr. Bush will be advised if they can find the time in his busy schedule. I have gained a respect for Mr. Bush and his "kinder and gentler NAM VET Newsletter Page 34 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 America." He seems to be a President that cares about our great nation and it's children. I will encourage him to invoke a plan to "truly" help all Viet Nam Veterans by staging a massive campaign through television, radio, newspapers, and magazines to contact all Veterans, to inform them of the implications of Agent Orange exposure, to provide physical examinations for them and their families, and to answer some of those unanswered questions that we keep wondering about. I will encourage him to seek legislation requiring that the Government provide health care for Viet Nam Veterans for Agent Orange related problems. I can't help but wonder (again) if President George Bush will respond to me, a Viet Nam Veteran. Folks, let's be realistic now. I don't think that any veteran is looking for that "gravy train" from the Government. Monetary compensation would be extremely staggering if the true value were paid directly to the Veterans for damages, emotional stress, and health care. Yeah, it would be very nice to have a bundle of money fall out of the sky on us... but that is not the real issue. The real issue is HEALTH CARE for us and our children. Of course, not a penny was spared for the Iran Hostages when they came home. What were they doing in Iran to begin with? I think it is time for the Government to do an about-face on this issue and do the same for the ones that went to Viet Nam. I have accepted the position of Agent Orange Editor of the NamVet Newsletter as of September, 1989. I can use all the help I can get with this endeavor. If you would like to submit an article or information that will help the cause of Viet Nam veterans seeking Health Care for Agent Orange exposure please contact GJoseph Peck at Vetlink#1, or myself at Fort Mountain BBS, 404-695-8703. Hope to see you here next month! Martin NAM VET Newsletter Page 35 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Cancer and the Vietnam Veteran: Where are the warnings? Input By: Gjoseph Peck NAM VET's Managing Editor VETLink #1 FidoNet 1:321/203 AlterNet 7:46/203 (413) 443-6313 Last December 14, 1988 marked the tenth anniversary of Paul Reutershan's death from a cancer than destroyed his colon, liver, and abdomen. Paul was one of the first Vietnam veterans to claim that "Agent Orange" had been responsible for his terminal cancer. In the Spring of 1978, on the "Today" show he announced: "I died in Vietnam, but I didn't even know it." Paul, along with Frank McCarthy, was a co-founder of Agent Orange Victims International a few months before his death. Also, Paul initiated a lawsuit against Dow, et al, that eventually became THE Agent Orange class action lawsuit which was recently upheld by the Supreme Court on July 5, 1988. Within the ten years since Paul's death there have been many studies done on Vietnam veterans and the other groups exposed to TCDD dioxin. Out of these studies, there have been digestive system death and disease; including a finding of excess digestive system mortality by the USAF in the Ranch Handers. Three studies of people involved in the manufacture of phenoxy herbicides or occupational exposure to TCDD dioxin were also found to have an excess of digestive system disease, including stomach cancer. Since Paul's death ten years ago the following events have occurred concerning the VA and references to cancer. 1. In July 1989, during the Carter Administration (sic), the Veterans Administration (VA) released a pamphlet, "Worried About Agent Orange?"; in which Vietnam veterans were informed that ... "Some reports have suggested that people exposed to dioxin have a higher incidence of some forms of cancer." 2. In March 1982, the VA issued a revised pamphlet, "Agent Orange Information for Veterans Who Served in Vietnam." This new version failed to name the various diseases linked with "Agent Orange" and described any possible link as "only a theory." The Reagan administration's information for Vietnam vets did NOT even contain the word CANCER much less a warning. 3. On December 5, 1982, in the Oklahoma City Times, an article describes a Reagan administration change in the way federal regulatory agencies protect the public from cancer causing substances. The new policy is: "to rely less on laboratory tests on animals and to wait instead for epidemiological studies of sickness and death in human population" ... A BODY COUNT! 4. In May 1983, two VA researchers, Drs. Flicker and Young, used the VA Agent Orange Registry of diseases and conditions reported by Vietnam vets during Agent Orange Exams at VA Medical Centers and Hospitals and they found a statistically significant excess of buccal cavity or pharynx cancer and lymphomas (NHL) in the Vietnam veteran registrants. 5. However, in August 1983, Drs. Flicker and Young presented a paper at the 186th National Meeting of the American Chemical Society, which stated "To ... date, no statistically significant health or reproductive effect has been uncovered." THIS IS JUST NAM VET Newsletter Page 36 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 THE OPPOSITE OF PART OF WHAT WAS KNOWN IN MAY (1983). 6. On Friday, September 4, 1987, the article "Vietnam War: Cancer Link Found" was an AP story printed in the Daily Oklahoman. This article reports on a soon to be released VA study which will show a statistically significant excess of lung cancer and non-Hodgkins lymphomas (NHL) in Vietnam Veteran Marines stationed in I Corps, South Vietnam. I Corps was heavily sprayed with Agent Orange. 7. September 1987, L.B. Hobson, Director, VA Agent Orange Projects Office, in Washington, D.C., said of the lymphoma finding: "I wouldn't say it's terribly worrisome. If I were a Vietnam veteran, I don't think I'd be the least disturbed about it." Frankly, Dr. Hobson, Vietnam Veterans are worried about chemically induced cancer. We in fact, are disturbed; particularly about the lack of warnings. Early detection is essential in order to successfully treat a cancer victim. Those in high risk groups, such as Vietnam veterans, must be informed so that they can make intelligent health care decisions. Because of the lack of VA cancer warnings for Vietnam veterans, the Oklahoma Agent Orange Foundation is providing the following: A LIST OF THE IMPORTANT WARNING SIGNALS OF CANCER 1. Unusual bleeding or discharge from any internal or external body site. 2. A lump or thickening in any area but especially the breast. 3. A sore that does not heal. 4. A change in bowel or bladder habits. 5. Hoarseness or persistent cough. 6. Indigestion or difficulty in swallowing. 7. Change in the size or shape or appearance of a wart or mole. 8. Unexplained loss of weight. These cancer warning signals are not intended to alarm Vietnam veterans, but rather they are presented to inform Vietnam veterans of the possible early warning signs of cancer. NAM VET Newsletter Page 37 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 How the VVA Victory over the VA Agent Orange Rules Applies to you From Various sources Input by: G. Joseph Peck NAM VET's Managing Editor VETLink #1 FidoNet 1:321/203 AlterNet 7:46/203 (413) 443-6313 As a result of the VVA lawsuit over the VA Agent Orange rules, the VA must redo the rules. The VA has announced it will comply and expects to have new rules in place in October 1989. We do not know what those rules will say. We do expect to participate - just like any member of the public can - in the process. The process of preparing new rules requires the VA to publish its proposed rules in the FEDERAL REGISTER and give the public at least 30 days to send in its comments. The VA must review and respond to those comments when it issues the final rules - again published in the FEDERAL REGISTER. You can participate in this process. If you want to receive a copy of the proposed rules as soon as they are published, drop a note to VVA Legal Services, ATTN AO Rules, 2001 S Street, NW, Washington, DC 20009. Regarding your own claim for disability benefits, our advice is depends on what you have or have not done already with the VA. We suggest the following action if you have a disability: 1. If you have never files a VA claim: ùfile now: ùinclude the following sentences on a letter firmly stapled to the VA application: Claim #1: I have _____ (name the disability) which I believe is connected to my military service in Vietnam. Claim #2: I have _____ (name the same disability again) which I believe is connected to my military service in Vietnam and which I believe is due to my exposure to Agent Orange. Do not delay processing Claim #1 because I mentioned Agent Orange in Claim #2. I request that the VA, in addition to the information on my claim form, develop the facts pertinent to this claim. I also request that the VA presume I was exposed to Agent Orange and resolve any reasonable doubt involving my claim in my favor. Enter this Agent Orange claim in the Special Issue Rating System. 2. If you already filed a VA claim and stated the disability was due to Agent Orange and it was denied: ùask the VA to confirm you claim is in the Special Issue Rating System as an Agent Orange claim and obtain your entire claims file from the VA now. Make sure the VA has your current mailing address. Keep in touch with VVA for the latest developments. 3. If your claim was denied by the VA in the past, but you did not tell the VA in writing that you believed the disability or death was due to Agent Orange: ùobtain your entire claims file from the VA and reopen the claim; NAM VET Newsletter Page 38 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ùinclude the following sentences on a letter firmly stapled to the VA application: I am reopening the claim you denied because I now have new and material evidence in recent doctor's reports and because of the results of the following science studies (insert a list of studies, for example, use those described at pages 18-19 of the VVA ON AGENT ORANGE GUIDE or others) Claim #1: I have _____ (name the disability) which I believe is connected to my military service in Vietnam. Claim #2: I have _____ (name the same disability again) which I believe is connected to my military service in Vietnam and which I believe is due to my exposure to Agent Orange. Do not delay processing Claim #1 because I mentioned Agent Orange in Claim #2. I request that the VA, in addition to the information on my claim form, develop the facts pertinent to this claim. I also request that the VA presume I was exposed to Agent Orange and resolve any reasonable doubt involving my claim in my favor. Enter this Agent Orange claim in the Special Issue Rating System. NAM VET Newsletter Page 39 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= - - M E M O R I E S - - ================================================================= Here Kitty, Kitty... (The Lefty Frizzell-Pleiku Saga continues...) By: Lefty Frizzell The Executive Washroom BBS Houston, Texas FidoNet 106/449 (PVT) It was towards the end of the monsoon season, and as mornings went it wasn't too bad. Eddie Roo and I were just finishing up with another evening of guard. It was about 0630 hours and we were leaving the tower, just waiting for the SOG. SOP was that we could go around and remove the caps from the claymores and secure the clacker. Usually we would pop the back of a mine, and borrow a couple of cubes of C-4 for coffee. When all the required actions had been done, it was Miller time. Depending on the SOG at 0700 hours we either secured the area and walked back to the barracks or we remained in place and awaited formal relief. This particular morning we had taken the 60, two cans of ammo, an M-79, our M-16 and other objects of mayhem down from the tower. I had just repacked my duffle bag and poured out my canteen. The two-day-old coffee was starting to grow a mold in it. I grabbed both cans of ammo, both duffle bags, the 79 and walked towards the road. We were supposed to wait on the side of the road and Security would arrive with the gun jeep and retrieve the ammo and platoon weapons. SGT Santos had just arrived and was talking about the last evenings' activities, when he went white as a sheet and started hollering," Look out! LOOK OUT!" I turned around just in time to see this 5 ton Bob Tail truck coming down the road... SIDEWAYS. This clown had come around the corner and had goosed it just as he rounded the bend. This caused the a** end of the truck to lose traction. In the mud and water there wasn't too much to begin with. Here comes this B-I-G truck down the pike, as I jump into the ditch to get out of the way, he runs over the 60, the 79, the ammo, and the damn gun jeep. He almost got SGT Santos and the driver. He never stood a chance of getting Eddie. I have never seen anyone that could put the moves on like Eddie, when he decided that it was time to move out of the AO. Nobody ever did it better. You have to visualize this truck sandwich, with my favorite HAWG under it, my duffle bag under it (my God! The SOB got my NEW radio! SOB!) If I could have gotten my hands on my M-16 I would have shot him. But he had run over that too... This long lanky dude got out of the truck. After nearly taking out 4 people and large chunks of government property, you would think that he would be concerned about us. But, NOOOOO... his first words was about his truck... and his second about his lost miles. His priorities were really hosed. Never did figure out those truck drivers. I think they got an Air Medal or something for a zillion miles with no accident. A kinda CIB for the Truckers. NAM VET Newsletter Page 40 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 To make a long story short, in those days you did not wait for the police. A couple of officers came down and took statements, and we returned to the barracks. The truck driver went on down to the PTP. The Pleiku Truck Park was the Hilton of the Homeless. It was the area that all the truckers came into when they made the trip up from Qui Nhon. Sometimes they would RON there before they went to Kontum. They had showers, a mess hall, a little club that only the truckers could get into. They also had a 12 foot tall fence with concertina around it. There was only one gate, and it had a guard. No one was welcome there that did not belong to the Transportation Corps. I can't understand why. Three-quarters of all the beer in the Central Highlands came and went through this gate. So, I guess you get the picture. Eddie Roo was a guy from Tennessee. He learned to shoot before he could walk. If he could see it, he could hit it. The last time I saw Eddie, he was nearly 40 years old... and had yet to take a legal deer. Eddie was infected with one of the most heinous diseases known to man. Eddie was a hunter. He was continually keeping us supplied with pork, chicken, various and sundry exotic birds. He was especially fond of the Vietnamese deer. They stand about 3 feet high and might weigh 50 pounds (with their antlers still on). Eddie came back from Thailand with two things -- a genuine zebra skin wall hanging... and a raging case of VD. Eddie's one burning desire, other than a trip to the medics, was to have a tiger-skin rug for his cabin floor. I was always asking if they really had wooden floors in Tennessee. During the 9 months that I had known Eddie, he had had two dogs, a monkey, and a coati mundi for a pet. He wanted a bear, but the CO had beaten him to it. The First Sleeve had a baboon (could have been an orangutan), that he used to keep in tied to the front of the Command Bunker. We got hit one night and the monkey decided that the bunker was his, and no one else's. That baboon held the entire might of the US Army at bay during a major rocket attack for nearly 20 minutes. The rockets were coming in... but the CO and crew weren't. They finally shot the ape, just to get some shelter from the shrapnel. Another story entirely. Anyhow, after all the excitement, we got back to the barracks we had been assigned and got some sleep. About 3 pm, I walked out of the barracks and heard this voice, "Hey! Cool! Come check this sh*t out!" I walked over to a 2-1/2 and climbed up on the tailgate. Eddie sat inside holding a chain... and the end of the chain was wrapped around a tiger's neck! I came unglued and jumped from the truck. Eddie came out laughing, jumped off the truck and the tiger followed him. Eddie finally had his tiger. This was the sorriest excuse for a tiger I had ever seen. He had places where the hair had been rubbed off, his claws were gone, and he wasn't looking too good out of his eyes. "Eddie, what the hell ya gonna do with this thing?" "Shoot him" "Shoot him, for what?" "I want his skin for my rug" "Eddie I hardly count this as fair chase" "Well, I'm gonna put him out of his misery" "He does look miserable" "Where did ya get him?" "You don't wanna know" NAM VET Newsletter Page 41 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 "Where ya gonna keep him" "Behind the revetment" "Eddie, he might attack someone" "Frizz, he ain't got no teeth" "No sh*t! Lemme see... Damn! Who ground those off?" "Dunno, must have been the circus" "What circus? "You don't wanna know." This banter went on for nearly an hour. Finally, we agreed to tie him up inside an abandoned ammo bunker, and went to the club for a few beers and a show. Had a little Filipino show with a couple of go-go dancers. Must have been near the end of their tour. Their go-go had just about gone-gone. It is amazing the ways that a song can be butchered and still be recognizable. The club closed at 10 pm. We had grabbed up a mess of chicken bones and leftover goodies for the cat, and staggered back to the hooch. As we tossed chicken bones and Alpo burgers to the cat, we discussed the near miss in the morning. "Man, I sure wanna get even with that guy from the Trans outfit. Imagine that sucker nearly killing us. There has got to be a way. I got half a mind to drag his ass outta that compound and try a little bit on him on." That was the general drift of the conversation. The more it went on the madder we got. The madder we got, the drunker we got. About halfway through a quart of Jim Beam, Eddie came up with this great idea. If we could not get to him, lets see if we could get him to come to us. Eddie, being from the hills of Tennessee knew all about feuds, and hangings and moonshine. He was kinda the professional type when it came to getting revenge. Eddie never hurt a friend. But, he had been known to crap all over some enemies. Eddie took a big pull of the bottle and said, "Wunder how old John Q. Trucker would like to wake up with a tiger in his tank? I would be willing to donate my rug, if you figger out a way to get him inside." "Eddie, my boy, you have come to the right place... I can't see them opening up the gates... but, I wonder how they would feel about us making our own?" With that I ran inside the Commo Bunker and came out with a genuine set of NVA wirecutters. And the rest is history... We walked back up the road. Two men and a ragged, beat up tiger. Singing dirty ditties, and laughing about how clever we were. We came in from behind the Class VI yard, and walked along the fence until we came to a likely looking spot. I was so drunk that I could hardly stand up to work the cutters... and Eddie had laid down and was talking to the cat. After much ado, I finally got a hole cut in the fence, and we put the cat through. "Eddie, take the chain off of him. I'm gonna miss that old cat. Eddie, ya only had him 6 hours. I don't care. You know how sentimental I get. Kiss him good bye, Eddie. I wanna wire this hole up and shag a**." NAM VET Newsletter Page 42 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Eddie, got the cat thru. We picked up two or three welding rods (that were laying around from when the fence was built), and twisted them through the hole. It was a real good job. Left a gap, you could have taken a jeep into. We walked down to the end of the fence and went over behind some bundles of PSP and watched the tiger. He walked slowly around the PTP, sniffing the air. All of a sudden he reared up and climbed into the cab of this 5 ton... and the sh*t hit the fan. "THERE'S A TIGER IN HERE!!!!" And this half naked body hit the ground running. "THERE'S A G*DD*MN TIGER IN MY FRIGGIN' TRUCK!!" That poor old cat looked up to see what the noise was about. He looked at them. They looked at him. He decided LET'S PLAY!!! So for the next 10 minutes Tiger chased man. For 5 minutes after that man chased Tiger. One of the truckers thought it would be cool to shoot the cat with a M-16. Bad idea, there Ace. All it did was piss Tony off. The fact that he was hit in the butt, didn't help matters any. So, for the next 3 or 4 minutes, it was Tiger chasing everyone, everything. He went thru trucks, off of trailers, right thru the front door of Howard Johnsons... and out the back. Thru the screen door of the latrine. It was occupied. Never knew those sounds could come from a human. This cat was at Warp-speed, and at this particular time... just wanted out! Tony was last seen hitting the front gate. He cleared the fence, the road in one jump. The Ditch and a large piece of real estate in a couple more... and then ran right thru Bunker #6. This cat went thru there so fast, that Mike Sadalowski (he was bunker commander that nite) never knew what hit him. He was later heard to remark "Don't know what the hell it was...but it was big, fast and had a HOT breath. (Mike, if you are reading this... now you know.) Tony jumped a triple strand concertina wire fence... with a bunch of tangle foot. Set off two trip flares and a small war. He was last seen heading north at a high rate of speed. Eddie and I were laughing so hard, that we never heard a guy come to the fence until he said, "Who's out there?". We jumped up and moved out smartly... staggered out quickly? Anyhow, we got back to the barracks... and never heard anything about the tiger again. Except the next night on guard, the SOG told us to be on the lookout for a tiger. Seems he had attacked a bunch of guys at the PTP the last evening. Eddie looked at me... I looked and him. And we both laughed. This happened nearly 20 years ago...and other than Eddie and myself... I have never told a living soul. Until today... NAM VET Newsletter Page 43 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 " I Am a Veteran of Vietnam " By: Sue Halpern (Norwalk, Conn.) student, Norwalk High School from: WINNING HEARTS AND MINDS: WAR POEMS BY VIETNAM VETERANS. Edited by Larry Rottmann, Jan Barry, and Basil T. Paquet. (c) 1972, 1st Casualty Press, Brooklyn, NY Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VET's PTSD Section Editor NY Transfer BBS FidoNet 13/1033 (718) 448-2358 I am a veteran of Vietnam. I've been from Hamburger Hill to the DMZ and back again with a mere flick of my wrist. Through my own eyes I've seen people Tortured. Bombed. Burned. Destroyed. Beyond hope of recovery While I sit contently watching ... and let it go on. NAM VET Newsletter Page 44 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Faces of Vietnam By: Kenneth Wolfe Vietnam 1967-1968 H Battery 3/16th Artillery A Battery 2/11th Artillery, 101th AB Input by: Todd Looney NAM VET's Editor-in-Chief Vietnam Veterans Valhalla San Jose, California Old faces ... but no new faces, When I'm in Washington DC and in front of that cold black granite wall with all those names on it I can only think, no, I can only see their faces, not their names, past faces, their faces looking back at me. Whose faces, their faces. Of all those names on the wall, I can't match any of those names with their faces and when I look into those faces I see my face looking back at me, and my face turning into their face, which face or whose face. Their blood dripping from their face onto my hands, I turn and face another panel, those other faces with more blood pouring onto my hands. I see one face, or two faces, or three faces, when will it end? How many more faces until it ends? When I face the wall I now see many more faces looking back at me. My face joining with their faces. Some of those faces I see but can't see. Why? I look into that face and see beyond him into more than 58,000 faces. Some of those faces are VC's, for they have faces too. Their faces, whose faces. A face, a friends face, or the VC's face are coming through the wall to take me on a long trip to see those in the WALL. I see blood dripping from the wall ... on my buddy's face, on this place with all those names. NAM VET Newsletter Page 45 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 " The Walk " By: Charles M. Purcell (Pasadena, Maryland) Sp5, 10th Combat Avn. Brigade '66-'67 Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VET's PTSD Section Editor NY Transfer BBS FidoNet 13/1033 (718) 448-2358 Walking in Suburbia Once only a name Now my home. Streets - quiet and wet Green bags of garbage and leaves Neatly placed by the road. Abruptly another scene pierces my mind Other green bags are remembered Neatly placed by the road. Green bags made from ponchos Bags with legs sticking out the bottoms A nightmare awaiting the man from glad. In the quiet dignified houses Nixon flashes on TV Smiling his asinine smile and waving his asinine wave While men lie along the road like so much garbage. If only a trade could be made Send the garbage and leaves to Nam Send the corpses to suburbia. Take the war out of the TVs and put it in the complacent streets Kick Amerika awake Before it dies in its sleep. NAM VET Newsletter Page 46 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= - - L I T E S I D E - - ================================================================= An Incomplete List of Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations By: Lt. Col Jack Finch, USA (Ret.) Published in the VVA Chapter 111 Springfield, MA Newsletter 1. Military intelligence can be contridiction in terms. 2. Recoilless rifles - aren't 3. A sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow down. 4. The enemy diversion you are ignoring is the main attack. 5. If the enemy is within range, then so are you. 6. Friendly fire - isn't. 7. If it is stupid and works, then it ain't stupid. 8. When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy 9. If you're short of everything, except the enemy, then you are in the combat zone. 10. Try to look unimportant. They may be low on ammo. 11. The easy way is always mined. 12. Tracers work both ways. 13. Sh*t happens. 14. Incoming fire has the right of way. 15. Teamwork is essential. It gives them other people to shoot at 16. Never draw fire - it irritates everyone around you. 17. No combat ready unit has ever passed an inspection. 18. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat. 19. Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out 20. Both sides are convinced they're about to lose, they're both right. 21. Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of dangerous amateurs. 22. Fortify your front and you'll get your rear shot up. 23. When in doubt, empty your magazine. 24. In war, important things are very simple and all simple things are hard. 25. Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire. 26. Communications will fail as soon as you need fire support desperately. 27. Weather ain't neutral. 28. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you. 29. Remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder. 30. If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed towards you 31. All five second grenade fuses are three seconds 32. The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly. 33. If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush. 34. No OPLAN survives first contact intact. 35. If it flies, it dies. 36. When you are forward of your position, the artillery will always be short. 37. Suppressive fire - won't. 38. You are not Superman. 39. Cavalry doesn't always come to the rescue. 40. B-52's are the ultimate in close air support. 41. Sniper's motto: Reach out and touch someone. NAM VET Newsletter Page 47 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 42. Peace is our profession - mass murder's just a hobby 43. Killing for peace is like whoring for virginity 44. There's always a way 45. Murphy was a grunt 46. It's not the one with your name on it - it's the round addressed "to whom it may concern" ya gotta think about 47. Remember napalm is an area weapon 48. Mines are equal opportunity weapons. 50. There is no such thing as the perfect plan. The original authors are unknown, probably military instructors like myself, who have generated these lists for their students' amusement. NAM VET Newsletter Page 48 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 "Daddy, why are all the soldiers here in church today?" "Because its Memorial Day, Son." "What's Memorial Day, Dad?" "Well son, its a day we take time to honor all the living soldiers and the memory of all those killed in the service." "Which service, Dad - the 9:00 or the 10:30 one?" NAM VET Newsletter Page 49 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= S P E C I A L P L A C E S ================================================================= "Viet Nam War Museum" Input By: Glenn Toothman NAM VET's MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker of Karnes County TX FidoNet 1:387/801 (PVT) Viet Nam War Museum Newsletter 9/29/89 July 4, 1989 saw the official opening of the Viet Nam War Museum in San Antonio Texas. The Museum is reputedly the only one of its kind in the country. Certainly it is unique in subject matter as well as presentation. Although called Viet Nam War Museum -- perhaps more for ease of identification than anything else -- the museum is more specifically an effort to educate the public about the life of the Vietnam combat soldier. The reactions of Museum patrons to date have been splendid. Politely and appreciatively solicited from guests as they exit, written comments from highly decorated veterans and high-school students never exposed to the war, and from the full spectrum of people in between, all harmonize well on at least three notes: they praise the Museum's authenticity, they express a gut-level appreciation for the Vietnam veteran and they want more. "More" is the operative word here. First conceived 15 years ago, the Museum is the result of the determined work and outright charity of a handful of vets and is not yet the national-class facility it is destined to be. The citizens of San Antonio have been asked to help -- one at a time, and they have -- but the Museum has received no major funding of any kind, public or private, and consequently little widespread media attention. Two factors, however, unite to insure the Museum will clear this early hurdle: the board of directors consists of men proven in combat as well as readjusted to still sometimes-bitter society -- not a bunch likely to give up -- and the public has almost invariably responded well once to the work going on at the Museum. Yes, "more" is the operative word, alright; more money, more exposure, more understanding. In fact this article is to invite you as a veteran to participate in the Museum in any way you can, as well as to let you know there is at least one place where the Vietnam combat soldier and American public alike are coming together. Appropriately located straight across the plaza from the Alamo, the Museum houses roughly 11,500 square feet of exhibit and activity space. Not to go off on a tangent, but since I used the word 'appropriately' perhaps this is the best place to get something straight (and I speak as a longtime citizen of the Alamo City and one who grew up eating my suppers with the Vietnam war, but the men who fought and died there in simple obedience to higher authority have as much place in the American heart as those whose sacrifice at the Alamo gave birth to a new nation. Any way, beneath that 11,500 square feet of roof lays a collection of artifacts, photographs, memorabilia and exhibits NAM VET Newsletter Page 50 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 consuming all of maybe 4000 square feet. The entry is at street level but the Museum occupies the second and third floors of the building, so the patron is brought necessarily up two short flights of stairs to enter (there is an elevator for the walking impaired persons). This feature has been taken advantage of creatively. Local artists have converted the stairwell walls into a mural of the Vietnamese countryside, and at the center stair landing, helicopters discharge combat troops onto a rocky hill, right into the arms of Museum patrons. Just inside the entry one encounters a smiling young lady who makes the patron welcome and tells him or her a little about the place. Here one particular feature of the Museum becomes apparent which begins to set it apart from other museums: if the young lady cannot answer any of your questions she will promptly find a Museum Staff member who can. In front of her is a glass display case holding several Congressional Medals of Honor, Silver and Bronze Stars and other awards, as well as some noteworthy artifacts. Directly behind the patron at this point hangs the complete skin of an enormous Bengal Tiger, himself a casualty of the war. Turning to view this curiosity the patron is taken directly, by feel and sight, into Viet Nam. The walls are bamboo or weathered clapboard, the photos adorning them are unretouched and straight from the cameras of combat soldiers, the patches and insignia of the units represented are all authentic. Going into the Museum then takes one parallel to a diorama of a firefight over a Vietnamese hill and past several anti-personnel and anti-tank mines. Next the patron comes upon a sandbagged machine gun nest where an M60 lies in easy touching distance. Passing into the next area brings the viewer alongside other weapons of war common to Viet Nam: a crossbow, an M16, an AK47, interspersed with photos and models of Viet Nam combat aircraft. The next exhibit evokes the most visible responses from combat vets: the hooch. Rather than describe it, suffice to say it looks real, from the six-card poker hand between the bottles of Tiger Beer to the rat peeking out from behind Miss May of 1968. Across the aisle is a large diorama-in-progress of a complete firebase, around which is a gallery of photographs, again shot by the soldiers themselves. Adjoining this space is the Viet Nam War Museum Theatre -- seating just over a hundred -- where film footage from, yet again, the cameras of soldiers, is screened daily every two hours. In the interval between these screenings documentary films are usually shown. Back of the theatre is a pill box of sorts -- not quite finished. Next to it will be another hooch, and beyond that a Vietnamese black market is going up. Directly one floor above the young lady and the tiger at the entry is a PX or store where the patrons may purchase patches, hats, shirts, POW/MIA bracelets and other pertinent miscellany, and abutting the store is another gallery displaying photos and Viet Nam era uniforms. At this point that is the extent of the Museum tour; perhaps one can see why so many of the Museum's patrons exit with the comment of NAM VET Newsletter Page 51 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 "More!" They are touched, probably most of all by the photographs (which convey something I cannot here capture,) and drawn to the very real, very human men whom the Museum exposes them. The rash of movies about the Vietnam War shot in the past several years has done something very subtle to the conscience of the American public: as with all media 'events,' it has said, "Okay, we've exhausted that subject; lets put the bad war far behind us now." As one of the T-shirts in the Museum's PX so aptly puts it, "It wasn't a movie." Certainly we must get over our mistakes both personally and nationally, but we must embrace ourselves for what we are, good and bad. This article is no place to preach, but it is a good place to say this: the Viet Nam War will never be far behind us until we do embrace that part of ourselves which led us into it and that part of ourselves which led us back out of it. People know this instinctively, and the Viet Nam War Museum gives them a chance to do just that. It's an education, small but growing, about guys who were, more so than heroes or degenerates, just good men. V.N.W.M NAM VET Newsletter Page 52 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= S P E C I A L N O T I C E S ! ================================================================= "Lifetime eligibility for Vietnam Vets' VRA Appointments" By: U.S. Congressman Esteban E. TORRES U.S. House of Representatives Washington, D.C. 20515 Input By: Gjoseph Peck NAM VET's Managing Editor VETLink #1 FidoNet 1:321/203 AlterNet 7:46/203 (413) 443-6313 September 28, 1989 Dear Friend: The House of Representatives has approved legislation to make permanent a program under which certain Vietnam-veterans may be appointed to federal jobs without having to compete for them. Under the approved bill, H.R. 2486, this federal hiring preference would be expanded to include all service-connected disabled veterans as well as veterans recently discharged from service. The Veterans Readjustment Appointment Authority was established by President Johnson in 1968 and was scheduled to expire on December 31. More than 280,000 veterans have been placed through federal service. H.R. 2486 removes the current requirement that non-disabled veterans have 14 years or fewer of education in order to be eligible for the program. Eligibility for a VRA appointment also would be extended to any veteran within five years from date of discharge from military service; Vietnam-era and service-connected disabled veterans would have lifetime eligibility. Veterans are among the best workers available to any employer and the federal government should be able to hire these exceptional employees quickly and easily. Sincerely, ESTEBAN E. TORRES Member of Congress NAM VET Newsletter Page 53 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= M O V I N G W A L L S C H E D U L E ================================================================= 1989 Schedules of the Mini-Wall Wall "A" - 1989 Oct 16-----22.....Mobile AB Oct 27-Nov-02.....Jacksonville FL Nov 11-----17.....Bayaman PR Wall "B" - 1989 Oct 23-----27.....Orange CA Nov 02-----08.....San Clemente CA Nov 11-----17.....Los Angeles CA Want The Moving Wall exhibited in or near YOUR city? Contact: John Devitt Vietnam Combat Veterans, Ltd. 1267 Alma Court San Jose, CA 95112 (408) 288 6305 NAM VET Newsletter Page 54 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= S u b s c r i b e N o w ! ================================================================= -- SUBSCRIPTION FORM -- The Nam Vet Newsletter is a nonprofit publication available free of charge to anyone wishing to have a copy. It can be obtained in electronic computer format by anyone having access to a computer and modem by dialing up any of the IVVEC hosting bulletin board systems listed in this issue of the Nam Vet. It can also be mailed to you in printed format if you are willing to pay the $1.67 cost for postage and the mailing envelope. If you desire to have the Nam Vet mailed to you in printed format, please complete the subscription form below, clip it out, and mail it to: Nam Vet Newsletter Vietnam Veterans Valhalla 28 Cecil Avenue San Jose, California 95128 If you send your payment in check or money order, please make it payable to Todd Looney. NAME_____________________________________________________________ STREET ADDRESS __________________________________________________ CITY/STATE/ZIP __________________________________________________ AMOUNT ENCLOSED ($1.67 per month desired) _______________________ If this subscription is for someone else, to whom shall we credit the gift? ______________________________________ October89 NAM VET Newsletter Page 55 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 ================================================================= I V V E C N O D E L I S T ================================================================= This message will be placed by myself or Todd Looney in the VIETNAM_VETS echomail area at regular intervals. This message constitutes the parameters regarding the use, access and distribution of the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference. LEGALITIES: VIETNAM_VETS is an International "veteran-support" EchoConference that is privately owned and operated as both a support mechanism and outreach effort by its originator, Todd Looney and G. Joseph Peck, President, Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc. VIETNAM_VETS is jointly moderated by Todd Looney and G. Joseph Peck. The ECHOMAIL COORDINATOR of VIETNAM_VETS is presently G. Joseph Peck - FidoNet 1:321/203; AlterNet 7:46/203 (1-413-443-6313). VIETNAM_VETS is carried as a courtesy and service to America's veterans on the FidoNet echomail "backbone" and through parts of AlterNet and other networks. Where policies of FidoNet or other networks and those of VIETNAM_VETS conflict, every effort will be made to reach an amicable solution to any posed problem. Todd Looney, Originator/Co-Moderator, and G. Joseph Peck, Co-moderator/EchoMail Coordinator, herein reserve the right to remove VIETNAM_VETS from a network should the policies of that network prove to be obstructive rather than conducive to the mission of this EchoConference. OVERVIEW: For some Vietnam Veterans, every day is a bitter struggle to survive as they try to find some way to either escape the horrible memories of that war or to come to terms with themselves so they and their families can begin a normal life. For other veterans of the Vietnam era there is often a fervent desire for comradery with members of the military who also served during that troubled time in our nations history. Until May of 1986 and the creation of the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) at Todd Looney's Vietnam Veterans' Valhalla, finding a way to satisfy the needs of these - the toughest, most persistent and determined veterans in ALL of U.S. history - as well as give non-veterans and others a chance to interact and learn firsthand from the Vietnam veterans about the war and its complexities, was difficult at best. IVVEC has changed all that! DESCRIPTION: VIETNAM_VETS is an "open forum" type conversational conference for the discussion of topics related to service in the SouthEast Asian and other theaters, crisis support and possible intervention, state and federal benefit entitlements, employment rights and guarantees, discharge upgrading, and other veteran service-oriented topics. PURPOSE: The purpose of the International VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference (IVVEC) is to be the support vehicle through which the veteran, particularly the Vietnam veteran, and his or her family will have an opportunity to communicate about his or her war experiences, often for the first time since returning from NAM VET Newsletter Page 56 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Vietnam. Each of us - as veterans, significant and/or concerned others - participate in the IVVEC to help each other with support, suggestions, ideas and comments. Together, as one of America's proudest groups, we can share resources and experiences which will strengthen and build our fellow veterans and may help provide a guide through the labyrinth of state and federal services many of us have honorably earned and have every right to expect. HANDLES: The use of "handles" in VIETNAM_VETS is allowed, only if the handle that you use is the name you normally use on the board on which you access the conference. MESSAGE CONTENT(S): Personal attacks on individuals whose sometimes-strong opinions differ from the IVVEC "norm" are discouraged. The object is to learn from and support others, not argue with them or "go for their throat"! Aside from the parameter concerning attacks upon other users, it is hereby stipulated that messages in the conference will use tasteful language. Flames, comments, suggestions and such should be addressed to the conference moderator/coordinator via netmail at 1:321/203 and NOT posted in the EchoConference. ADVERTISING: Advertising of for-profit organizations is not allowed. Acceptable advertising is that which announces a veteran-oriented BBS, supports a veteran-related enterprise of a veteran-member of the EchoConference, or of the efforts of a nationally recognized veterans' group or organization. DISTRIBUTION: The conference is commonly known as the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) and is distributed throughout America, Canada and parts of Australia as "VIETNAM_VETS". Distribution in America is generally via the FidoNet backbone which is part of the distribution topology currently in effect. Other nets distributing the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference must follow proper procedures for zonegating as established by the FIDONET International Coordinator. All messages in the echo must have a FidoNet compatible origin line. The Origin line should contain the word ORIGIN: followed by the originating systems name, zone, net, node and point number if applicable. Distributing messages between systems of various networks without authorized zonegating and/or changing of distribution topology beyond the original transfer is in direct violation of the distribution topology of this conference. IVVECLST.020 ================================================================== OFFICIAL NODELIST - INTERNATIONAL VIETNAM VETERANS ECHO CONFERENCE ================================================================== 28 August 1989 As of the above date, these are the net/nodes currently receiving the IVVEC Echo that we know of. If you have any ADDITIONS, DELETIONS, or CHANGES to report, please Contact Woody Carmack at 1:153/130 (1-604-462-8753 Data) or leave a message in the IVVEC. We will acknowledge receipt of your note. ================================================================= NAM VET Newsletter Page 57 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 NET/ MAX NODE BBS NAME City/State/Country Phone BAUD ================================================================ 632/350 Yarra Valley BBS Melbourne Austr AU 61-3-848-331 1200 114/113 Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ 1-602-894-1470 2400 114/13 Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ 1-602-894-1470 2400 153/123 DAETECH Burnaby BC 1-604-420-2641 9600 153/130 VETSTAR (Northwest) 1-602-462-8752 2400 HST 24 hrs Headquarters, Vietnam Veterans In Canada 153/508 Ebenezer Christian BBS Mission BC 1-604-826-6607 9600 153/133 Hot Line Data Network Langley BC 1-604-533-0421 2400 220/20 Old Frog's Almanac Nanaimo BC 1-604-758-3072 2400 103/507 Philosopher's Log Anaheim CA 1-714-535-1258 9600 200/100 The Board Room Belmont Shores CA 1-213-498-6425 2400 161/502 Wildcat Benicia CA 1-707-746-5820 2400 161/66 Generic BBS Citrus Heights CA 1-916-722-3659 2400 203/66 Generic BBS Citrus Heights CA 1-916-722-3659 2400 161/1 Nerd's Nook Concord CA 1-415-672-2504 9600 202/401 jabberWOCky Escondido CA 1-619-743-9935 2400 161/34 Now and Zen OPUS Fair Oaks CA 1-916-962-1952 9600 161/56 Nat'l Family Forum Freemont, CA 1-415-651-4147 2400 161/7 Mover Mouse BBS Fremont, CA 1-415-883-1644 2400 200/200 CSULB Long Beach, CA 1-213-494-8737 1200 161/39 Nightline Mather AFB, CA 1-916-362-1755 2400 161/509 Enterprize Pinole, CA 1-415-758-1650 2400 161/11 The Byte Boutique Sacramento CA 1-916-483-8032 2400 161/5 River City II OPUS Sacramento, CA 1-916-646-9678 9600 161/943 Eagle's Nest Sacramento, CA 1-916-334-2822 9600 10/215 Silver BBS San Diego, CA 1-619-226-4502 2400 125/31 Echo Coord San Francisco CA 1-415-621-5206 9600 143/27 Vietnam Veterans Valhalla San Jose CA 1-408-293-7894 2400 Todd Looney 24Hrs 365Days BinkleyTERM 2.0 CM NAM VET Newsletter Page 58 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 *DOWN* Headquarters, Vietnam Veterans Valhalla 143/31 Tranquility Base 143/40 The Dungeon 143/86 Cat's Tail BBS S T O P San Mateo CA 1-415-349-8245 2400 125/78 Living Sober BBS San Mateo, CA 1-415-342-2859 2400 125/12 The Grape Vine Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-546-4938 2400 125/7 Survival Forum Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-545-0746 9600 HST 103/501 Mount Silverthorn Tustin, CA 1-714-544-3369 2400 104/28 Pinecliff BBS Boulder, CO 1-303-444-7073 2400 128/13 COSUG-Colorado's User Clrdo Spg CO 1-404-548-0726 2400 128/16 Firenet Leader Colorado Spring CO 1-303-591-9600 2400 104/739 The Phoenix Parker, CO 1-303-841-9570 2400 104/51 P2 B2 South Denver, CO 1-303-329-3337 2400 141/488 Alice's Restaurant Branford CT 1-203-488-1115 2400 141/250 Wilton Woods Wilton, CT 1-203=762-8481 9600 135/27 Bitsy's Place Miami Beach FL 1-305-865-0495 9600 135/35 The Sober Way Out BBS Miami, FL 1-305-445-6917 2400 363/9 MaMaB--Mark's Bedroom, Orlanda, FL 1-407-894-0807 9600 363/10 Midas Touch Orlando, FL 1-407-648-1133 2400 366/38 Jolly Green Giant Shalimar, FL 1-904-651-3875 9600 370/10 Classic Quick Echo, Athens, GA 1-404-548-0726 2400 370/5 Athens Forum Athens, GA 1-404-546-7857 9600 12/7 HPCUA Honolulu HI 1-808-422-8406 9600 12/1 Aura Net Honolulu, HI 1-808-533-0190 2400 115/761 ICS/TRIX 1 OPUS Chicago, IL 1-312-761-7887 2400 115/529 Elk Grove Repeater Elk Grove Vlg IL 1-312-529-1586 2400 115/20 North Shore BBS Evanston, IL 1-312-491-2611 2400 115/429 Chicago Business Evanston, IL 1-312-491-2611 2400 232/4 Runways End OPUS Peoria, IL 1-309-691-5416 9600 HST 11/202 The SouthSide BBS Indianapolis, IN 1-317-882-9330 1200 NAM VET Newsletter Page 59 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 227/1 Michiana TechLine Mishawaka, IN 1-219-258-0286 9600 227/150 The SX Project Whiting IN 1-219-659-2711 2400 108/90 DATANET Information Syste Erlanger KY 1-606-727-3638 2400 108/50 The ZOO BBS Independence, KY 1-606-283-2040 2400 321/109 PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA 1-413-256-1037 9600 HST 321/203 VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA 1-413-443-6313 2400 G. Joseph Peck 321/210 Berkshire_Estates Pittsfield, MA 1-413-499-1327 9600 HST Pete Farias 109/722 Ronnie's Roadies BBS Camp Springs MD 1-301-736-0135 1200 109/648 Falcon's Rock College Park, MD 1-301-345-7459 2400 109/124 ZEPHYR National Capital Area 1-703-620-5418 HST 9600 13/33 Avi-Technic Lutherville, MD 1-301-252-0717 9600 13/30 The Futurists BBS Perry Hall, MD 1-301-529-0716 9600 261/628 Liberty Hall Reisterstown, MD 1-301-833-8933 2400 261/628.1 Systemhouse Link Reisterstown, MD 1-301-833-8933 2400 261/1044 Firestation BBS, Baltimore, MD 1-301-866-8613 2400 CM Jim Henthorn 109/717 The Tin Badge BBS Silver Spring, MD 1-301-589-2016 1200 379/201 Metro Link Charlotte, NC 1-704-553-9534 9600 151/601 VMC-BBS Winston-Salem_NC 1-919-744-0883 2400 151/100 NC Central Raleigh, NC 1-919-851-8460 9600 151/1000 REDCON Raleigh, NC 1-919-859-3353 9600 285/622 Friend's BBS Omaha, NE 1-402-896-2669 2400 Joan Renne 132/101 BBS Source Archive Nashua, NH 1-603-888-8179 2400 150/803 Jersey Vertex Moorestown, NJ 1-609-869-0139 2400 305/101 NASW New Mexico Las Cruces, NM 1-505-646-2868 2400 381/401 Border Connection White Sands, NM 1-505-678-1318 2400 107/105 NY Transfer Staten Island, NY 1-718-448-2358 2400 108/105 Global Time Systems Cincinnati, OH 1-606-341-7910 2400 157/1 Auer Register Cleveland, OH 1-216-883-0578 2400 NAM VET Newsletter Page 60 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 110/20 EDS Data Dayton, OH 1-513-455-2431 2400 157/501 The PC-Key BBS Girard OH 1-216-545-9205 2400 385/4 Info-Net Lawton, OK 1-405-357-6181 2400 385/6 Bink's Barn Lawton, OK 1-405-357-2473 2400 147/14 Dark Star TBBS Oklahoma City, OK 1-405-691-0863 9600 148/120 Genetic Research Vat Toronto ON 1-416-480-0551 2400 11/700 FCAU IBM Net Toronto, ON 1-416-427-0682 9600 221/156 Waterloo CBCS PUBLIC Waterloo, ON 1-519-746-5020 9600 221/157 Waterloo CBCS Echomail Waterloo, ON Unpublished 9600 105/16 Net 105 EchoMail Hub Portland, OR 1-503-761-3003 2400 105/61 Shotgun OPUS Portland, OR 1-503-760-4521 2400 157/506 Beacon Hill OPUS Transfer, PA 1-412-962-9514 2400 362/1 The Mines of Moria Chattanooga, TN 1-615-344-9601 2400 362/501 Coconut Telegraph Chattanooga, TN 1-615-698-4858 2400 130/5 CUSSNET UTA Arlington, TX 1-817-273-3966 2400 136/200 The Chai Way II Austin, TX 1-214-358-3738 2400 124/4210 Hardwired Dallas TX 1-214-437-4075 9600 124/4214 *CHRYSALIS* Dallas TX 1-214-895-9054 2400 124/106 CHAI Way II Dallas, TX 1-214-250-3323 9600 124/110 Flying Dutchman Dallas, TX 1-214-642-3436 9600 124/117 NCC-1701 Node 1 Dallas, TX 1-214-240-8821 2400 124/4117 NCC-1701 Dallas, TX 124/14 Chrysalis Dallas, TX 1-214-985-9054 2400 124/200 Dallas Outbound Dallas, TX 1-214-437-4075 2400 124/201 Hardweird Dallas, TX 1-204-931-2987 2400 19/5 Micro Application El Paso TX 1-915-594-9738 2400 106/386 Information Center Exchan Houston TX 1-713-872-4429 2400 106/108 Stormy Weather I Houston, TX 1-713-644-4345 9600 106/1108 Stormy Weather II Houston, TX (number & baud unavailable) NAM VET Newsletter Page 61 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 106/111 Shutterbug's OPUS Houston, TX 1-713-880-4329 2400 106/113 The Opus Network Houston, TX 1-713-780-4153 2400 106/114 The Fireside Houston, TX 1-713-496-6319 2400 106/357 TMBBS Houston, TX 1-713-497-5433 2400 106/132 Fast BBS OPUS Katy, TX 1-713-392-0093 2400 382/1 Crystal Palace Lake Travis, TX 1-512-339-8037 2400 382/14 Corona Del Mar Rockport, TX 1-512-729-7026 9600 381/201 Pro Link San Angelo, TX 1-915-944-2952 2400 387/401 Comp-U-Gen II San Antonio TX 1-512-496-9373 2400 387/601 NCOA International BBS San Antonio TX 1-512-653-0409 2400 109/604 ShanErin Alexandria, VA 1-703-941-8291 2400 109/639 The RENEX BBS Woodbridge, VA 1-703-494-8331 2400 343/111 Lessor Puget TB Edmonds, WA 1-206-742-8067 2400 343/9 Everett OPUS Everett, WA 1-206-355-1295 1200 138/4 PTC Net Mount Vernon, WA 1-206-757-5248 2400 1/217 Region 17 Echo Coord Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-5317 2400 138/101 Story Board Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-5317 9600 138/3 Region 17 ADVISOR EMERITUS Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-9232 2400 138/49 The Cohort Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-2646 9600 138/35 US HDS Human Service Seattle, WA 1-206-442-8127 2400 138/52 Burrell's Ballpark Tacoma, WA 1-206-752-4672 2400 139/640 Fox Valley Tech Appleton, WI 1-414-735-2513 2400 154/200 PC-Express Greenfield, WI 1-414-327-5300 2400 261/1004 The PainFrame 1-301-488-7461 UNK 343/26 AFMINS BBS 1-206-488-4309 9600 HST 387/801 The Commo Bunker Phone number not available. 161/208 G.A.D.M. Multi-User Hayward, CA (415) 581-3019 139/630 APPLEGATE Appleton, WI 261/1007 FINAL FRONTIER (301) 947-4404 344/117 LSO QuickBBS, Everett WA (206)334-3088 9600 HST NAM VET Newsletter Page 62 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 7:49/0 ALTERNET The Flying Dutchman, Grand Prairie, TX 7:440/1 Lord Frog Of Swamp (715) 362-3895 7:43/15 NITEWING HST Addr Unk AFIMS BBS *WILDCAT* HST PCP (206)488-4309 231/70 ISU BBS Terre Haute IN 170/203 The GUNNER'S MATE 347/2 Computers on line 370/11 Classic City Vet's Conference, Athens, GA (404)548-0130 143/20 SeaHunt BBS, Burlington, CA (415) 343-5904 9600 Michael Nelson 14/703 Telen-Quest BBS (417)882-5108 154/288 The Inner Circle 19/43 McScott's BBS, Blytheville AR, (502)532-6212 9600 HST 344/9 The Precedent, Everett WA (206)355-1295 322/230.0 Denis's OPUS!, Ayer, MA (Ft.Devens) 1-508-772-6373 Denis Marchand 7:520/563 EEE's BBS, Clifton NJ Ed Edell 107/563 NAM VET Newsletter Page 63 Volume 3, Number 10 October 7, 1989 Some Gave ALL ... Some Still Give!!! O O O SOME GAVE ALL ... ________O__________________________________O______________ ! O O ! ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia ! ! O O ! ! ~~~~~ ~ ~ O~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~~ ~ ~~ O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O) / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ / / O \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~ / PRISONER / \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~~ ~~ / OF /\ \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ / / \ IN \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~ / WAR / ~~ \ \ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / ~ ~~ \ ACTION / ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ! ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow ! !__________________________________________________________! NAM VET Newsletter Page 64