Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 . __ . . ____/ \_ . . -*- N A M V E T -*- ( * \ . . \ Quang Tri . . G. Joseph Peck \_/\ \_ Hue . . Managing Editor \_Ashau Phu Bai . . \_* \_ . . Bob Morris Jerry Hindle \ * ) . . Distribution Managers / Da Nang . . ( \_ . . Section Editors \_ ------- \__ . . --------------- \_ I Corps \ . . PTSD: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. \ ------- ! . . AGENT ORANGE: Martin J. Kroll, Sr. /\_____ ! . . MIA-POW: Glenn Toothman / ! \ . . HOMELESSNESS: Lefty Frizzell ! !___ \ . . FEDERAL BENEFITS: Jim Hildwine ! \/\____! . . INCARCERATED VETS: Todd C. Looney ! ! . . Joyce Flory / Dak To ! . . MEMORIALS: Aaron Schmiedel / * / . . MEMORIES: G. Joseph Peck ! \_ . . CHAPLAIN: Rev. Ed Brant ! Phu Cat\ . . \ * * ) . . -**- N A M V E T -**- \ Pleiku ) . . \ \ . . / / . . "In the jungles of 'Nam, some of us ( -------- ! . . were scared and wary, but we pulled _\ II Corps ! . . one another along and were able / -------- \ . . to depend on each other. That has \ \ . . never changed. Today, free of the ! * / . . criticisms and misunderstandings _/ Nha Trang / . . many veterans have endured, _/ / . . NAM VET is a shining beacon, __/ ! . . a ray of hope, and a _ __/ \ ! . . reminder that the _____( )/ ! Cam Ranh Bay . . lessons learned / !__ ! . . at such a high / \ / . . price shall not \ Bien Hoa \ / . . be forgotten - ! Chu Chi * \ __/ . . nor the errors \_ * --------- \ ___/ . . repeated!!!" ____ \ III Corps \ _/ * . . / \_____) )_(_ --------- !__/ . . ! ( ___/ * Duplication in . . _____! \__ * ___/ any form permitted . . ! Saigon/ for noncommercial . . \___ -------- / \/ purposes only. . . \ IV Corps / . . ) -------- / . . / ! . . / ____/ . . / Mekong/ . . ! Delta/ This newsletter is comprised of articles . . ! ____/ and items from individuals and other . . ! / sources. We are not responsible for the . . ! / content of this information nor are any of . . ! __/ NAM VETs contributors or Section Editors. . . \_/ gjp . ================================================================= T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S 1. EDITORIALS De ja vu???????? ........................................ 1 Coping With Christmas ................................... 3 Veteran's Benefits Threatened ........................... 5 A product of my yesterdays... ........................... 7 2. Special Times Khe Sanh: Vietnam's Most Controversial Battle ........... 11 A Message to My Country ................................. 14 3. Agent Orange VA Awaits Further AO Research ........................... 15 Pass the Clearasil !!! .............................. 16 4. Hearts n' Minds Vietnam Vets - Road to Recovery ......................... 17 Old Salt's Lament ....................................... 25 Say Over, Mary! ......................................... 27 I ain't here alone! ..................................... 32 5. Veteran Benefits VA Pensions increase .................................... 34 Veterans reminded of burial benefits .................... 35 6. Missing!!! Christmas and POW's ..................................... 37 They haven't forgutten US!!! ............................ 39 MIA News ................................................ 40 MIA List - A through E .................................. 42 Memorials Effect Is Deep! ............................... 51 Wall Omissions? ......................................... 53 7. The Chaplain At Nam Vet The Bell Toll's ......................................... 55 NAM VET's Chaplain ...................................... 59 A visit or note once in awhile? ......................... 60 8. They've a special part Vietnam Nurses .......................................... 61 9. Of particular interest Danger to a Generous and Healing Spirit! ................ 68 RAMSEY CLARK AND THE PANAMA INVASION .................... 73 10. Concentrated Service VIETNAM_VETS Echo targets on SERVICE! ................... 77 D.A.V. Service & Involvement requested. ................. 78 11. Military Organizations Service Organizations & BBS's ........................... 80 12. Subscribe Now! Subscribe to Nam Vet .................................... 86 13. IVVEC - Who and What Vietnam Vets Echo Participants ........................ 87 IVVEC Nodelist & Parameters of VIETNAM_VETS Echo ........ 89 Some Gave All... ........................................ 94 NAM VET Newsletter Page i Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= E D I T O R I A L S ================================================================= De ja vu????? by: Glenn Toothman NAM VETs MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker - Karnes County, TX VetPoint 8 (1:321/203.8) & FidoNet 1:387/801 Just the other day I was returning from a business trip, and there was a crowd at the airport that made my moving away from the gate difficult, and when I got up to the commotion I discovered that it was a returning Air Force Capt. from Panama. Well, I was upset (tired from the trip and annoyed at the fact that I wasn't moving as fast as I wanted to), I made the statement that this guy had spent two days in Combat, and he was getting all this attention, and I had spent two years in Combat and got no attention at all. At this point a newsman must have overheard me make the statement, and he asked me about it.. Well I told him that I had no comment and moved on with my business. What I had said bothers me. Why?? Because I've been listening to other Namvets and what they are saying about the older Vets from WW II et al. Hearing us say how unlistening, unconcerned, etc. that they were. Now we have something in common with the Older Vets... Now we are experiencing the 6 o'clock trip to Combat, that our peers experienced. The media is now showing the casualties and wounded, the civilian problems, the warriors sucking mud when sniped at, many of the same things that we experienced in Nam (not to exclude Granada, however due to the news blackout there was not the coverage that there is in Panama). I hear Namvets, (and myself) getting angry, saying things (like I said above) and generally reacting to the new vets in a negative manner. Could it be that we are becoming like the WW II vets, not wanting these "young kids" in our exclusive club?? Are we feeling threatened by these "young kids" experiencing the things we did, fear, anger, frustration?? Will these "young kids" want to join our organizations and tell "war stories" about Panama, and not want to hear about "Nam", are we a thing of the past??? Are we becoming like the WW II vets, "old" warriors, "old" men and women whom no one wants to listen to?? Do we no longer have an exclusive war, jungle war, war with civilians shooting, war with the 6 o'clock news coverage?? Now that we are no longer the youngest vets, will we be put on the "back shelf" and no longer be getting the attention that we feel we deserve?? Must we stand aside and let these "young kids" get all the "glory" of combat?? I, as a combat vet from Nam, feel we should stop and reflect on our own feelings, then put ourselves in the place of the WW II vets, being forced to acknowledge that we are getting old, that it has been quite a few years since we were in combat (25 years ago is when I enlisted and was sent to Nam). Can it be that the hardest thing for us to do now is accept the fact that we can no longer be the "grunt" of the past, that we can no longer be the "youngest vets". Maybe we should take the knowledge we have gleaned from our experiences and share it with the soon to be NAM VET Newsletter Page 1 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 homecoming vets, and help them "get it together". These new "Vets" didn't have to travel half way around the world, move through countless time zones, be exposed to "total" alien concepts, didn't have to go through the anti-war gauntlet that we did, but they HAVE seen the world through the eyes of a combat soldier, have fired shots at an enemy, have been shot at by an enemy, they are indeed Brothers, Brothers of Combat, and we as Brothers should help them make the transition back to the life that they left. These men and women did the same thing we did, they went to war when asked (ordered?) by their country. They went in our place, though many of us would have gladly gone again, for whatever reasons that we may have. It should be our pleasure and pride to assist them upon their return, to welcome them back, to give them the recognition and praise that we never got, to keep them from experiencing the rejection and prosecution that we were, in essence to give them what we were denied, for twenty years..... Panama Vet, you are welcome here, you have a ready ear to talk to, you have a friend to listen to your stories you have a comrade to lean on when remembering those who didn't make it back, Welcome Home, and Welcome Aboard. I really don't know how this article will affect the Namvets, but someone had to say it, I for one do not want these New Warriors to experience what I have, they have experienced enough with the experience of combat, they don't need to have the rejection of being the youngest veterans and shunned for it. Glenn Toothman RVN 66-67 RVN 70-71 NAM VET Newsletter Page 2 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Coping With Christmas By: Todd Looney NAM VETs Editor-In-Chief Vietnam Veterans Valhalla - San Jose, CA (408) 737-2564 (Mail Only) The Thanksgiving/Christmas season has almost always been a tough one for me to handle. I was a POW in Laos for a period of time in the early 70's. Since I was captured in an October, and escaped during a November 2 years later, those months have since held a place in my subconscious apart from the rest of the year. Thanksgiving and Christmas as a child were always times of family and friends, laughter, surprise, glee ... happiness. Those images were clouded while I was in those prison camps because I was forbidden all the pleasures which had for so long accompanied them. After Vietnam, the dreaded images of the holiday season continued to mar my perspective, and since Vietnam it has been extremely difficult at best for me to cope with the months of October through December. In 1983 I spent 6 months in a VA Mental Rehabilitation hospital under the auspices of a "Combat Veterans Program" which succeeded in aiding me to attain the correct perspective on what had happened to me during the four years I spent in Southeast Asia. Now, incarcerated in California's penal system, I found myself replaying those old tapes I had thought were long since played out and erased. In jail, one is isolated from the "spirit" of Christmas almost to the extreme of nonexistence. Oh sure, the inmates have programs inside designed to try and emote a feeling a well being. We decorated the recreation area with boughs, tinsel, colorful streamers and holiday artwork. We threw ourselves a sanctioned "party" during which we "feasted" on deli meat and pizza prepared by volunteers from our prison chow hall. Visitors from outside came in and brought holiday fare with them to help liven the inmates mood and sway the loneliness, but when they left the foreboding feelings of loss and loneliness reemerged in an all-consuming flash. Many of the Vietnam veterans in the Santa Clara County jail, as well as I, were not visited during the holidays and spent them alone for all it was worth. Depression and grief were our bedmates during the holiday season. I took the opportunity open to me to speak with many of the Vietnam veterans incarcerated with me in Santa Clara County's jail system about their feelings. We shared ourselves with one another as openly as we could, and the feelings we had during that month were in common - almost a symphonic tune in their sameness. Each knew how the other felt, but we were helplessly ensnared in the grasp of that pain called Christmas. All we could do was let each other know that we understood. We tried to incarnate better feelings for each other, and were successful for the time we were together, but when we returned to our own little cells we found ourselves once again alone ... thinking about those on the outside and wondering if anyone *really* cared. We wallowed in our own depressions until the next free period when we could all get together again to comfort one another. NAM VET Newsletter Page 3 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Coping with Christmas for a Vietnam veteran incarcerated has been one of the worst experiences I have ever had to face. It was very much akin to the way I felt when I was imprisoned by the North Vietnamese back in 1971 and 1972. Of all the veterans organizations out there I was shocked that there were no efforts by *any* of them to show some support for their brothers and sisters incarcerated in Santa Clara's massive jail system. I made a resolution though. I'll never let another Christmas pass by without at least trying to bring a message of hope and good will to my brother and sister Vietnam veterans who happen to have found themselves incarcerated during the Christmas season. I know the pain I suffered could have been soothed a little if someone had come to visit me bringing with them only a smile and a kind word of support. Ciao Todd NAM VET Newsletter Page 4 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 VETERAN'S BENEFITS THREATENED By: Martin H. Kroll NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705 (404) 695-8703 I don't find it a bit surprising that The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has targeted DISABLED Veterans with their proposals to do away with certain benefits and services. It seems that while members of Congress are reaping the benefits of a pay raise that would be unimaginable to most of us in the labor force, OMB is looking to put over 600,000 service-connected disabled veterans in jeopardy of losing their benefits from the VA. Ironic, isn't it? According to their proposals, they would like to institute a direct performance of duty clause in defining service connected disability entitlements. If this proposal should go through and become law, a soldier serving in a far away land who is injured while off-duty would have no entitlement whatsoever. He could be totally disabled and sent home with no source of income or health care. I feel that this is an outright shame to even consider something of this nature! So what if the soldier was off duty and enjoying himself in downtown Frankfurt? The way I see the scenario now is that the young private gets a pass to go downtown and while he is enjoying a meal in a nice eating establishment, a terrorist bomb rips the place apart and he is left without an arm or his legs, or possibly blinded. The government then sends him back home to mom and dad and says "Hey, tuff luck, the little turkey wasn't on active duty!" " Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you should reimburse us for his medical bills thus far and the expenses for his flight home since he obviously can not fulfill the remainder of his obligation to us!" OK, so maybe that scenario is a little farfetched folks..... but, it IS entirely possible should this clause be approved! I think that we should all remember that a soldier is a soldier 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and had it not been for him being a soldier he would not have been in Frankfurt to begin with! Veterans have enough problems trying to get their due benefits without adding exclusions such as this one. I also feel that if this clause is approved, the armed services will become even less appealing to the young of our country. If the guys at the OMB really want to save money for our country they would do much better to look elsewhere and leave our Disabled Veterans alone! I wrote a letter to President Bush a few months ago concerning Agent Orange and our Viet Nam Veterans. As of this date I still have received no acknowledgement from the White House that the letter has even been received. Of course, after reading the January 1990 issue of DAV Magazine I am not even expecting a reply! According to an article in DAV, "the National Commanders of ten veteran's service organizations have signed a joint letter to the President urging him to reject OMB's budget-cutting schemes and emphasize veterans as a priority in the budget process." The article further states that "At press time, the White House had not responded to the letter or to its request that the President NAM VET Newsletter Page 5 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 meet with the veterans." Oh well, so much for my ideas that President Bush would respond to me, a solitary Viet Nam Veteran. Veterans should be one of the strongest lobbying groups in this country, but for some reason that I don't understand this has not been the case. If all veterans were united and spoke in the numbers that we actually are, then the Government would not dare to drag their feet when it comes to our just benefits. The Agent Orange issue would have been resolved years ago. There would be no talk of taking benefits away from disabled veterans. They wouldn't even dare to think it! The Government would be looking for new ways to better care for the ones that fought for our freedoms and risked and gave all. Why, brothers and sister, have so many of us overlooked this fact? Why do so many of us continue to be silent? Why could we be so brave and courageous in a time of war and come home to be treated as we have... and accept it? Our President is also a veteran. Can we not show enough support to be heard loud and clear from one end of this great nation to the other? I urge you once again brother and sister veterans, sit down and write letters to your Congressmen, write letters to your Senators, write letters to the President, and write letters to anyone that may be able to help in our political situations. Keep tabs on what our politicians are doing to help us or to hurt us. Help those that help us and ruin those that hurt us! The places to do this are in the press and in the VOTING BOOTH! NAM VET Newsletter Page 6 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 "A product of my yesterdays" By: G. Joseph Peck NAM VETs Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 "KED348 to East Fishkill Rescue Squad. Respond to a traffic accident on the eastern side of the Taconic State Parkway at Miller Hill Road. Person trapped in the vehicle. Time out 2240hrs." The Rescue Squad monitor at Joe's bedside went silent. The curve at the bottom of Miller Hill Road was treacherous. Because the parkway veered sharply to the left and the road was banked to the right, many locals claimed that it was engineered wrong. Silently sobbing to himself, Joe restlessly tried to fall asleep. He hoped that he wouldn't be called out again tonight. "Just like in 'Nam," he cried. "Just like it! Another one dies in my arms - and it wasn't his fault!" Scenes from the past hour or so refused to leave him. Unaware of the designed-in danger, the car and driver were suddenly jettisoned through space. Probably the last few things the driver had seen were his car going off the bridge and the gully below quickly coming up to meet him. First on the scene, Joe quickly saw that the ONLY way to get to the man was to scramble through the shattered rear window. Brushing aside crystallized windowglass with his coat sleeve, he crawled through. Stilling himself to everything external, he laid fingertips gently to one of the mans carotid arteries. No pulse! Climbing into the front seat, he had to act quickly! "Okay, Men - by the numbers: 1. Tilt the head back; 2. Clear the airway; 3. Pinch the nose; 4. Make the seal; 5. Breathe into the victim; 6. Do not stop unless you are relieved." "I wish Sarge were here and not me," Joe frantically thought to himself. He tilted the man's head back, ran his fingers through the mouth, quickly made a seal and began mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Blood from the man's mouth and nose, pepper-and- onion tainted breath when forced air was expelled - a signal to Joe that his efforts were futile. Until the ambulance drivers took over, though, Joe continued his vain efforts. Elephant grass... Blood... Broken window glass... Blood... Ambulance drivers... Medevacs... White sheets... OD Body Bags... Blood... Blood... Blood... "Didn't make it..." Joe fitfully tried to fall asleep. Sensing his inner turmoil, his wife gently caressed him and tried to help him forget. It almost worked... "KED348 to East Fishkill Rescue Squad. Respond to an automobile accident on Route 84. State police report a pickup truck has NAM VET Newsletter Page 7 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 crashed into the ravine near the Rest Stop and has come to rest on a ledge halfway to the bottom. Reported person or persons trapped in the vehicle. Time out 0130hrs." Quickly shutting out his own pain and sorrow, Joe hurriedly dressed and raced outside - deafening himself to his wife's anguished cry of "You're not going again, are you, Joe?" Three minutes later he was on the scene. Halfway down the 300-foot deep canyon, precariously rocking from side to side, Joe saw the pickup. A State Trooper was helping a woman climb to the roadside. "My baby! My baby" she was crying. "My son's nowhere to be found! Please find them!" Just as he was nearing the teetering pickup, one of the other rescue squad members, baby in his arms, was beginning to climb. "The baby got stuffed underneath the dash. That's probably what saved her. We haven't found the boy yet, Joe. He was thrown out. He's probably at the bottom!" Joe aimed his flashlight toward the base of the ravine. Nothing. He began to scan the area as he continued downwards. Trying to trace an imaginary trajectory, he began at the underside of the truck with the light's beam. A form! There was the boy! "I see him, I see him! He's pinned underneath!" Joe shouted as he sailed through the air towards the truck. Had it not been for the outstretched arms of John, the Rescue Squad's Captain, centrifugal force would have taken him past the accident to the gorge nearly 150 feet below. "It's too late, Joe. Nothing we can do. He's gone." Two other squad members had just crawled from under the dangerously rocking truck. The slightest movement could send squad members and truck to the bottom. "I can't give up NOW, John... not after the one we just lost. Lemme do a recon. Gimme your penlight. Here... hold my flashlight..." He dropped to the ground. The smell of oil and gas filled the air. It was hot under the truck. "SMOKING LAMP IS OUT!!! SMOKING LAMP IS OUT!!! This thing can go up at any minute. Do NOTHING that will cause any sparks!" Joe cried out to the squad. Joe carefully scanned the boy's body. Not even the slightest movement of his chest to indicate any breathing. He looked kind of blue. "I've gotta get the boy breathing again - and NOW!" Joe quickly surmised. "Okay men - by the numbers: 1. Tilt..." With alarm, Joe discovered that he couldn't fit under the truck. There wasn't a fraction of an inch's clearance. The oil pan was resting right on the boy's back. Each time the truck moved, it NAM VET Newsletter Page 8 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 pushed him further into the ground. "Dammit, Sarge! How the hell am I gonna try to save this kid if I can't even get my head near his! He needs air - and he needs it NOW!!!" The other squad members later said they'd heard it too. A voice coming from nowhere but everywhere. "Dig, FNG! DIG!!! If ya gotta do it with your hands, do it. Now DIG!!!" Joe didn't try to figure out who'd tried to play a military game with his head. He frantically dug, tried to make room enough for at least his head to fit. Time was going too fast! Faster, faster, faster!!! "Almost enough," Joe reacted after trying once more to fit under the truck. "But not time enough. Got to do SOMETHING - and do it NOW!!!" "2. Clear the airway..." Not even a hint of warm air came from the boy's nostrils or mouth. Wiping his hands on the boy's shirt, Joe began to force the boy's mouth open. Whatever was to be done must be done now. The boy still hadn't moved and a grey pallor covered his every feature. "He's gone," one of the squad members told another. "Two out of three saved isn't too bad." "Oh no, God. Please. Not another one! Help me, help me! Please!" The boy's body temperature heralded quickly approaching death. Almost too late for any help... The smell of oil and gas filled the air. The truck moved a little more towards the downside of the ravine. It was as quiet as a morgue around the perimeter of the truck. Hardly anyone except Joe was moving. Time seemed to be standing still. Almost like someone turned a bright light on in his head - as if he had just woken up - Joe pushed three of his fingers down the boy's throat! "One last shot, kid," said Joe. "If this don't work, I've done the best I can." Movement! The boy started to move! Three more times he put his fingers down the boys throat, repeatedly gagging him... pushing deeper and deeper, trying to trigger the kid's automatic gag reflex... tickling the back side of the throat... again and again... Suddenly the boy began to cough and then cry! He was alive! NAM VET Newsletter Page 9 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Rescue squad members quickly sprang into action. A rope was tied from above to hold the truck from falling; shovels were brought down and everyone began to dig. It seemed like only seconds passed before the boy was placed in a stretcher and squad members were carrying him up the hill to a waiting ambulance. Tears streaming down his face, gratefully taking the offered oxygen mask, and trying to relieve the tension of the situation, Joe commented to John: "First time in my life I've ever jump- started a human. I think Sarge woulda been proud..." The house was dark when he'd arrived home. Quietly sliding into bed, he reached over and turned off the monitor. Sleep came easily. Last thing he remembered before falling asleep was thinking to himself: "Who says my military career 'don't mean nuthin'? They shoulda been there..." Newspapers the following day reported that the boy only suffered second and third degree burns to his back and he'd had to have his head shaved. 'Til Next Month Show a brother or sister veteran That YOU care!!! Ci'ao for Ni'ao -Joe- NAM VET Newsletter Page 10 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= S p e c i a l T i m e s ================================================================= Khe Sanh: Vietnam's Most Controversial Battle By: Albert Hemingway Senior Editor - VIETNAM Magazine Input by: Bob Morris NAM VETs Distribution Manager Pole Climber Two - South Durham, Ct. (203) 934-9852 Twenty two years ago this month, January of 1968, North Vietnam embarked on one of the greatest gambles in military history --- the Tet Offensive. The Plan, which was to coincide with Vietnam's sacred holiday of Tet, or the lunar new year, called for over 60,000 Viet Cong/North Vietnamese units to invade major cities in every province of the country. It was hoped the civilian population would rally to the Communist cause and achieve a stunning victory against the U.S. and her allies. Beginning in the early morning hours of January 30th, ten enemy battalions stormed the ancient imperial capitol of Hue. It would take nearly a month to drive the V.C./N.V.A. from their strongholds within the city at a cost of 1,100 Marine and 1,600 South Vietnamese casualties. Other attacks followed: Saigon, Quang Tri City, Da Nang, Nha Trang, Hoi An, Qui Nhon; 36 provincial capitols in all. Fighting raged everywhere. But of all the battles and skirmishes that were fought, one would stand out in the forefront. Prior to Tet, it was an obscure, remote place, located in the northwest corner of South Vietnam near the Laotian border. For 77 days, 6,000 Marines, Green Berets and South Vietnamese Rangers would withstand unmerciful artillery barrages and savage ground assaults by 20,000 N.V.A. troops. It would receive nationwide attention from every newspaper and magazine in the country. And in the end, it would topple a President of the United States. It was known as the siege of Khe Sanh. Before the war, the village of Khe Sanh was a quiet, idyllic hamlet, nestled among the lush, green hills of the Annamese Cordilla mountain range. In 1966, General William C. Westmoreland, commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam envisioned it as a jumping off point for an invasion of Laos to sever North Vietnam's supply lines. He immediately began a massive buildup in the area. A battalion of Marines was sent to establish a base camp several miles from the tiny village. The North Vietnamese followed suit. "It was like setting honey out to attract flies," said one correspondent. By the summer of 1967, the flies had come to take the honey. The illusive enemy entrenched themselves in the mountains encompassing the combat base: 881 North, 881 South, 861A and 558. These hills overlooked the plateau where the camp was situated. And the Marines went after them. Dubbed the "Hill Fights", it was the NAM VET Newsletter Page 11 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 scene of some of the bloodiest fighting thus far in the conflict. In the end, the Leathernecks were victorious and drove their adversaries from the high ground. In December of 1967, with 8,000 plus trucks moving down the Ho Chi Minh Train into South Vietnam, Vo Nguyen Giap, North Vietnam's top military leader, was ready to strike. And Khe Sanh was his first target. The siege started on January 20th, ten days before the actual uprising. The base itself was heavily defended. Colonel David E. Lownds, 26th Marine Regimental commander was confident he could hold. But the hills surrounding him were a different story. His men were scattered over a wide area --- some miles apart. Hill 881 South for example, manned by "India" Company, were 200 strong at the onset of the struggle. When it was over, only 19 Marines were present to answer the roll call. By the end of January, artillery rounds were crashing into the camp. One day alone saw 1,307 shells hit the small compound. The place was a shambles. Everyone buried underground. The ammunition dump was struck igniting 1500 tons of explosives and creating an ear shattering explosion. Black billowing smoke rose from the petroleum fires. A reeking stench hung in the air gagging everyone's throat. Countless rats roamed freely biting chunks of flesh from unsuspecting Marines. The incoming projectiles kept falling. Hidden deep within the jungles of Laos, the enemy guns couldn't be silenced. Helplessness and frustration grew. Resupply as a serious problem. The main encampment, with over half the airstrip ripped apart by the constant bombardments, relied on parachute extractions from the bellies of C-130 and C- 123 planes. It was a test of nerves. Pilots braved "flak alley" to drop off pallets of provisions to the besieged Leathernecks. The hills fared worse. Fifty-one helicopters were either damaged or destroyed attempting to reach the hilltops. Marines went without food, water and ammunition for days at a time. Newsmen compared Khe Sanh to the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, and there were similarities. But there was one decided difference --- American firepower. Fixed wing aircraft, B-52s and 175mm "Long Toms", located just 10miles from the base, prevented the invaders from launching a full scale attack. Other areas weren't so fortunate. The village itself was razed. Thousands of refugees streamed down Route 9 eastward, towards Quang Tri City, to escape certain death. The Green Beret camp at Lang Vei, 4 miles from Khe Sanh, was overrun. Only 100 survived out of the 500 stationed there. Hills 861, 861A and 64 repulsed determined assaults on their positions. President Lyndon Johnson was visibly shaken. He ordered a three dimensional model of Khe Sanh and its surrounding hills constructed especially for him. It was called "The Sandbox". Located in the Situation Room, far beneath the White House, the Texas Democrat would study it in great detail as the siege continued. The war was torturing LBJ by 1968. NAM VET Newsletter Page 12 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 "I couldn't stand it anymore," he said one evening after waking from a nightmare, "I knew that one of my boys must have been killed...". The months of February and March dragged on as the Marines clung stubbornly to their positions. The all-out thrust to penetrate their perimeter never materialized. Then, in early April, the N.V.A. melted back into the jungle. A relief force finally reached the battered camp. The official death toll was 205. But unofficial sources put it closer to 500. Hundreds more were wounded. The siege was over. Looking back, it was doubtful Giap ever wanted Khe Sanh. The American military command, with the exception of the Marines, placed too great an importance on its strategic value. However, it did create an excellent diversion for the Tet Offensive. But the huge gamble did not pay off. The masses didn't rise up as Giap had anticipated. North Vietnam suffered over 45,000 killed and 7,000 taken prisoner. It was an utter failure. Ironically, despite their overwhelming losses, the Communists, with help from the American press, did achieve a psychological victory of sorts. The biased nightly newscasts back in the States reported the allies had endured a terrible setback during Tet. The American people's sentiment turned sour on a victory in Vietnam. The "doves" cooed louder. Finally, on March 31, 1968, Johnson revealed he would not seek reelection. It was the turning point of U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia. "Rarely has contemporary crisis-journalism turned out, in retrospect, to have veered so widely from the truth," said noted journalist and author Peter Braestrup. In June of 1968, the Khe Sanh Combat Base was closed. And so was an agonizing chapter in America's longest war. NAM VET Newsletter Page 13 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 A MESSAGE TO MY COUNTRY By: Ed Howdershelt TOY SHOP-PC BBS - Spring Hill, FL (904) 688-9124 For nearly twenty years it's festered deep within my soul; The time I spent imprisoned in an Asiatic hole; The friends I lost for certain and the guys we never found; And the over fifty thousand who lie six feet underground; The times when those we went to help set traps for us at night; Or cringed behind some cover while we carried on the fight; The government who sent us there but wouldn't let us win; And all the sorry bastards who cursed soldiers 'cause they'd been; The ones who demonstrated, throwing words and sometimes stones; And formed such strong opinions in the safety of their homes; And those who only knew the war from TV's nightly news; By journalists in Saigon who inspired such peoples' views; The heat and dust and then the rain that made it soggy hell; The vermin that disturbed our sleep and constant rancid smell; The night that fifteen hundred rounds of mortar fire came in; And Khe Sanh lay in ruins while we wrote to next of kin; The villages we found where Charlie'd been the night before; To leave his vicious message carved in tortured human gore; The drugs that some men seemed to think would help to keep them sane; The only thing that some could find to handle so much pain; Those men who had a year to go, but died the first few days; And some who had just days to go, but died there anyway; Share feelings of death's presence in the dark from seven yards; Share brotherhood with strangers who can't leave the Veterans' wards... Revision 6; copy at will, but leave copyright intact. Copyright 1989, by Ed Howdershelt 4645 Commodore Ave., Spring Hill, Fl. 34606 Share the poem in a manner that will help another veteran. NAM VET Newsletter Page 14 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= A g e n t O r a n g e ================================================================= VA SECRETARY TO AWAIT FURTHER AGENT ORANGE RESEARCH DATED 24 NOVEMBER 1989 Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md Secretary of Veterans Affairs Edward J. Derwinski today said that he has decided to wait for the results of a major federal study due next spring before determining if any Vietnam veterans should be entitled to disability payments based on their exposure to the herbicide Agent Orange. Derwinski explained that the outcome of a study begun in 1985 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control focusing on cancer incidence among Vietnam veterans should be weighed before he makes any kinds of new policy decision. A Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) advisory committee recently reviewed significant statistical association between non- Hodgkins lymphoma -- a rare form of cancer -- and human exposure to types of chemicals used as defoliants in Vietnam, but that such an association couldn't be ruled out. The committee was guided by new VA regulations that went into effect Nov. 1, following a ruling earlier this year by federal court that said VA's cause-and-effect standards has been too strict in considering claims by veterans that the defoliant caused health problems. - - - - - Jim's Note: Adm. Zumwalt's who first approved the use of the Agent Orange in Vietnam, plus the fact his son who also served in Vietnam died of Cancer is on the advisory panel for Secretary Derwinski.. It seems that the VA is awaiting the final word and works for the CDC in Atlanta Ga. It looks as though the VA would make a sound decision based on what is found from the CDC... The time range should be around the later part of April or NLT mid-May 90... Federal Benefits? Ask me!!! - Jim - NAM VET Newsletter Page 15 Volume 4, Number 1 January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xxx _ -. . - .-. - . . . . - XXXXXxxXXXXXXXXXXXx -. - .- . - . . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-. .--. - .- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -.- - -.- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -. -. -. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx .g -. -. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .- j. .- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX . p .-. XXXXXXXX ]XXXXXXXXX ]XXXXXXXX .- - -. XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXX -.- - -- XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX -- - XXXXXXXXX X'`XXX XXXXXXX Y Y XXXXXXXXX XXXXX XXX XXXXXXX X X XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXX XXX XX X XXX XX XX XXXX XX XXX XX XX XX XXXX XXX]XXXXXXXXXXXX XXX[ XX XX XXX XXXXXXXXXX " I t ' s o n l y t e e n a g e a c n e ! " -Robert Nimmo- NAM VET Newsletter Page 16 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= H e a r t s n ' M i n d s ================================================================= VIETNAM VETERANS: THE ROAD TO RECOVERY by Joel Osler Brende, M.D. and Erwin Randolph Parsons, Ph.D. Copyright 1985 Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY (718) 448-2358 RECOVERY PHASES PART I ------ Recovery from the stress of war moves slowly through a number of phases. Most veterans complete these phases without professional help while others become locked in one, or vacillate from one to another and require assistance in order to progress. To understand the complexities of these phases is mandatory for the Vietnam veteran and those assisting his recovery. The following five phases of recovery have been commonly described: 1. THE EMERGENCY OR OUTCRY PHASE. The survivor experiences his life being threatened and responds with fear, helplessness, and an accompanying physiological "fight-flight" activation of pulse, blood pressure, respiration, and muscle activity. 2. THE EMOTIONAL NUMBING AND DENIAL PHASE. The survivor protects himself by burying the experience in his mind. 3. THE INTRUSIVE-REPETITIVE PHASE. Traumatic dreams, images, and emotions intrude into the survivor's consciousness and sleep. 4. THE REFLECTIVE-TRANSITION PHASE. The survivor develops a larger personal perspective on the traumatic events and becomes positive and constructive; he thinks more about the future and is less fixed on the past. 5. THE COMPLETION OR INTEGRATION PHASE. The veteran has successfully integrated the previously traumatic event with his prior life experiences to restore a sense of equanimity and continuity. Now able to put the war into its proper perspective, the veteran sees the war as merely a past memory. To complete all phases of this progression obviously requires a great deal of personal effort on the part of the veteran and is more often achieved through professional help than without it. Psychologist John Russell Smith, a Vietnam veteran, has suggested a similar view of the recovery process. But in place of the higher-level phase, Smith has described two partial recovery phases: "sealing over" and integration, and a third and final NAM VET Newsletter Page 17 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 recovery phase: atonement. "Sealing over," which enables a veteran to put disturbing memories out of his mind, is made possible by the "sanction" or approval of the American public; this occurred for the young men in World War II. Sanction provided an overall purpose and meaning for the soldiers in that war, relieving feelings of guilt or need to justify their involvement. World War II was clearly a war in which Americans participated in order to save the world from Nazi Germany's destructive use of power and prevent the Japanese from controlling the Pacific. The sanction of their country enabled World War II veterans to live productive and meaningful lives in most cases because they were not burdened with any collective or national guilt and could, for the most part, "seal over" their traumatic experiences. For those individuals who "sealed over" emotionally disturbing traumatic memories, recalling and talking about them over the years helped veterans integrate the memories as they became less disturbing. On the other hand, since Vietnam veterans lacked the moral sanction of their country, many are left with the burden of national guilt on their shoulders and have never regained a sense of meaning in their lives. Some individual veterans, however, have experienced partial sanction from the acceptance of family members, friends, or other veterans, allowing them to "seal over" their combat memories and emotions. In a recovery phase beyond "sealing over," Smith has described integration as a time when a Vietnam veteran finds personal meaning through finally accepting responsibility for his individual actions. This is not an easy phase and requires his recognition of both the good and bad aspects of his war experience in order to "weave each strand of the experience into the overall fabric of his identity." In a final recovery phase that Smith labels "atonement," veterans find "At-One-Ment" with experiences they had previously rejected. Or they may finally feel at one within themselves or with forces much greater than they, such as their entire community, nation, and even religion. The pursuit of atonement may lead to a resolution of guilt and self-acceptance, described by Smith in the following example of a Vietnam veteran who accidentally killed his lifelong friend: "For years after his return [from Vietnam] Bill could not forgive himself for the death of his friend. Daily, he made a detour around the town where his buddy was buried. Billy's judgment of that act was frozen and locked into a value system which allowed him no forgiveness. Several years later, he had come to accept the fact that he had slipped in a moment of panic, accidentally killing his friend. It was only when he could drive to the cemetery, kneel in front of his friend's gave, say he was sorry and accept forgiveness for himself that he could go on with his life." While it has generally been thought that men and women who complete the recovery phases successfully have received therapy, there are some who have achieved such results from life experience alone. Dr.Dan Conlon, a Minneapolis physician and a Vietnam veteran, NAM VET Newsletter Page 18 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 illustrates his own experience of traversing through these phases. He had been exposed to many traumatic experiences, including death and killing. After returning to civilian life and his medical practice, he had considerable problems with nightmares, irritability, and periods of depression. He recalls going through the denial and numbing phase -- a phase he had seen in his own patients. "I'm seeing the similarities between people involved in divorces, involved in the grief reaction with sudden death of loved ones, grief from news of cancer and loss of a limb, etc. The divorce syndrome looks very similar to the posttraumatic stress disorder .... Are ... we ... talking about the same thing in different settings?" He then experienced a degree of sanction, which helped him feel okay about his work in Vietnam for a time; "Unfortunately both myself and my men were all volunteers in hazardous duty apart from our assigned tasks during our stay. At the time it all seemed very worthwhile and we were all on a high, feeling that we were doing something heroic for our country `above and beyond' as they say. The medals we got helped a little but they look cheap to us now." Nevertheless, with the support of his wife, friends, and religious faith, he was able partially to integrate and "seal over" the most disturbing aspects of his agonizing experiences and continue his active career as a family practitioner. But not without some struggle: "I've resumed my `Clark Kent' identity as a family physician ... as though nothing had happened .... I've been carrying the Vietnam experience around in my conscious and unconscious mind since I left Vietnam in January 1968. Hardly a day has gone by that flashbacks ... and confusion about that experience hasn't popped into my mind. But I have conveniently, until just lately [during 1984], shut out all deep thinking into my Vietnam adventure. ... I have managed to somehow sublimate all my thoughts and doubts and frustrations concerning my involvement in Vietnam ... [and] convince myself that nothing really happened to me of significance during my 365 days. But I know it did. I have felt it was unhealthy to be preoccupied with the past." He goes on to say: "Drawing the whole experience to a meaningful conclusion would somehow make it okay .... Recently my thirteen-year-old handed me a stack of envelopes -- unopened -- dated 1968 that I got from my buddies and some of the Montagnards ... after coming home. I was so fed up with the whole thing I guess I just threw them in a pile and forgot about them when I got back. Only now am I able to read them, and they had a great emotional impact on me even now." Finally, beginning the integration and atonement phases, he has begun writing a book and recently taught a course called "Vietnam -- retrospect" at his alma mater college. Clearly, there are many Vietnam veterans who have not been able to traverse the recovery phases in such a remarkable way as this veteran. Many of them remain fixed in one or more of the phases and require professional help in the form of psychological therapy to be able to move forward. Much of what has been learned about psychotherapy began in 1971 when the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) organized "rap groups" and asked NAM VET Newsletter Page 19 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 psychiatrist Robert Lifton for help in leading them. With the help of Chaim Shatan and other colleagues these groups continued successfully for two years. Dr. Lifton found that the group members frequently suffered from the self-condemnation of "self-lacerating" guilt. However, when they were able to talk openly about their war experiences and guilt feelings, they began to make progress. Eventually, self- lacerating guilt gave way to "animating guilt" that enabled them to take responsibility for their past actions and experience a new degree of personal liberation. These veterans became interested in helping others, particularly other Vietnam veterans; they often pursued further education and developed skills at writing, counseling, and public speaking. Through such activities, they experienced a renewed sense of personal integrity. In addition to resolving guilt, an important task of the rap groups was to help the members resolve feelings of "impacted grief," as Dr. Shatan describes: "The `post-Vietnam syndrome' confronts us with the unconsummated grief of soldiers -- `impacted grief' in which an unending, encapsulated past robs the present of meaning. Their sorrow is unspent, the grief of their wounds is untold, their guilt is unexpiated." Since the early 1970s there have been many others who have become involved in the research and application of principles of treatment for Vietnam veterans. Most have found that while therapy often helps them improve, survivors rarely are ever completely free of the imprinting effects of the traumatic events, beginning with the emergency arousal and initial outcry, for example, of Phase 1 -- a time marked by vulnerability and terror acquired from a soldier's brush with death. Vietnam veterans with Phase I symptoms continue to suffer from startle reactions and panic attacks, triggered by dreams and reminders of the event. Because of these physiological responses to memories, it is not difficult to understand why so many of these men complain of physical problems associated with parts of the autonomic nervous system: the heart, stomach, urinary tract, genitals, muscles, nerves, and blood pressure. Researchers, such as Drs. Kolb and Mutalipassi at the VA Medical Center in Albany, New York, have conducted research that found these symptoms to be a result of conditioned responses to trauma. They exposed veterans to noises simulating battle, and found that they responded with muscle tension, rapid heart rate, increased respiration, and increased electrical conduction on the surface of the skin. From these findings, they developed successful treatments using prescribed medications that not only subdued such conditioned physiological responses to memories, but the accompanying anxiety as well. It has also proved useful to teach veterans relaxation techniques, meditation, or biofeedback training for controlling their autonomic nervous system and muscle tension. Weight lifting and jogging are additional ways of maintaining muscle tone and releasing pent-up emotional tension. Some veterans with PTSD have reported other physical symptoms such as recurring dizziness and loss of balance, particularly in stressful situations. When we asked patients with PTSD if they ever suffered from dizzy spells or loss of balance, approximately NAM VET Newsletter Page 20 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 50% said they have had such episodes. One psychiatrist theorizes that these symptoms often reflect a disturbance in brain functioning due to the patient's profound fear of change and loss. If this should be the case, a patient with these symptoms should only be treated with regular therapy to uncover and resolve that fear. A Vietnam veteran often will develop a new physical symptom, a change of dream content, or a spontaneous recollection of a specific traumatic memory associated with an earlier recovery phase as treatment progresses. This is often made possible by the development of a trusting relationship between therapist and patient, permitting the previously blocked memory to begin to surface. If the memory is disguised in the dream or only partially recalled, it may be more fully uncovered through treatment techniques such as hypnosis. As reported earlier, a Vietnam veteran was treated for 15 months and hypnosis was used only when the patient developed a new symptom, the most unusual being a sudden numbness and tingling in his face. A hypnotherapy session discovered that agonizing traumatic events created the symptom. During a hypnotic trance state, he reexperienced the distressing memory that had been partially blocked. He saw himself being shot at point-blank range and felt the pain again of the bullet penetrating the bridge of his nose and piercing through his temple. After being ably supported through this reexperience, he fully regained his memory and the numbness and tingling in his face disappeared. Sometimes a new injury will cause physical symptoms related to a traumatic memory. For example, Lee suffered an injury to his neck in a fall. When the pain persisted, we believed that it partly represented a physiological memory, and suggested a hypnotherapy session. This approach was successful and permitted him to recall vividly a "blocked memory" associated with fear, guilt, grief, and his experience of nearly dying from a violent wound. He experienced complete but only temporary (24 hour) relief from pain following the session. Vietnam veterans with Phase 2-specific symptoms suffer from emotional detachment and numbing, full or partial amnesia, and little pleasure in daily living. If they are recent victims of traumatic experiences, they may respond to therapists who confront their denial by evoking hidden horrifying memories through hypnosis, psychodrama, Gestalt therapy, and other "uncovering" techniques. However, there are veterans fixed in this phase for years, who do not respond to such treatment approaches. Their major psychological defense is a persistent and profound hypervigilance that gives the appearance of a paranoid orientation to the world, as Drs. Herbert Hendin and Ann Pollinger-Haas have observed. These veterans can often be intimidating to other people who sense the presence of smouldering rage. Unable to permit themselves to experience fear or other emotions, they are often consumed by feelings of vengeance, and are prone to periodic aggressive outbursts. They also have major conflicts pertaining to power; they view power as a destructive force and thus distrust people in authority, including therapists. Though Vietnam veterans stuck in this phase have associated their own use of power with NAM VET Newsletter Page 21 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 destruction, they still attempt to control all events in their lives, but often do so in a self-destructive way. Long-term treatment in group and individual therapy has been recommended for Vietnam veterans whose personality traits involve problems with anger, destructive use of power, and fear of vulnerability. They are in need of trusting therapeutic relationships, which can sustain them through the months and sometimes years it takes to change. Through such relationships, gradual acceptance of relative states of helplessness and vulnerability begins to emerge, enabling them to proceed through subsequent phases of recovery. We believe that it is very important for group leaders or individual counselors to remain personable and not detached from their veteran patients. They must also be able to tolerate outbursts of anger and understand the relationship of anger to other emotions. Dr. Arthur Blank has stated: "It helps a lot in groups for the leader to make distinctions clearly among various emotions related to anger -- hatred, rage, jealousy, envy, paranoid suspiciousness, bitterness, contempt, fear, anxiety .... There is often a relationship between anger and grief. Tears are sometimes felt unconsciously as clean anger -- tears of rage may be extremely helpful, and crying from anger may be something to welcome as a part of important growth in a group or individual. There are other kinds of crying -- relief, joy, frustration, a sense of contact and authenticity, sadness. It is good to be able to sense the anger involved sometimes in crying, though you may never say much about it." Yet the process of change for Vietnam veterans whose anger covers over their sense of vulnerability is slow. They frequently become defensive and test out how potentially powerful they or their therapists are, often for at least the first 6 months until trust develops. Psychiatrists Frick and Bogart have reported on their experiences of leading a group during the third through the sixth month when the members reported on many of their violent experiences, felt vulnerable, and then distrusted the leaders' possible misuse of their power over the group members. The psychiatrists, in turn, felt intimidated by the group members, sometimes retreating from them or even feeling like retaliating. When they found themselves doing so, they believed it was important to be honest and to also admit mistakes if they made them. "We sometimes had feelings akin to those of war prisoners being interrogated by their captors. We struggled with our feelings of intimidation, keeping in mind that these men had actually killed and were at times genuinely suicidal. We recognized our own rage ... and accepted part of it as realistic and appropriate. On the other hand, their criticisms were sometimes quite accurate; it was necessary to be aware of our mistakes." Veterans who are less angry, emotionally numb, and guarded suffer from a predominance of Phase 3 -- intrusive-repetitive -- symptoms, as researcher Dr. Mardi Horowitz has described. They reexperience disturbing memories, images, dreams, and emotions of fear, guilt, and grief. These symptoms are generally reenactments of the original traumatic experience; the unconscious mind attempts to replay the experience so as to master it. Certain NAM VET Newsletter Page 22 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 therapeutic approaches can help the survivor undo, or master the associated fear, and help him eventually to understand the nature of his symptoms. These approaches include hypnosis, dream interpretation, and guided imagery -- the uses of imagined "pictures" to remember unpleasant memories. However, there are Vietnam veterans whose intrusive symptoms are so repetitive and disturbing that specific treatments are designed to control them. For example, psychologists John Fairbank and Terence Keane of the VA Medical Center in Jackson, Mississippi, have studied the effectiveness of a specific therapeutic approach called "flooding" for recurrent nightmares, intrusive images, and frightening flashbacks. In a very pleasant state of relaxation, the patient, along with his therapist, is exposed to traumatic scenes and sounds. After a period of eight sessions, anxiety-related images, flashbacks, and nightmares gradually diminish. Similarly, we as therapists have suggested that veterans with recurrent disturbing dreams practice holding the images in their minds as long as possible. This approach sometimes has a paradoxical effect and leads to a spontaneous reduction and disappearance of traumatic images. Other less structured techniques have been used, with varying degrees of success, to end the distressing recurrence of traumatic images. For example, counselor John McQueeney at Bay Pines, Florida, has taught Vietnam veterans the technique of repetitive dream rehearsal and modification, a method that has also been reported on by other researchers. He instructs a patient with a recurrent dream of being ambushed to rehearse mentally a change in the dream, allowing him to take a different path from the one leading to the ambush. With an attitude of expectation when he goes to sleep at night, he soon learns to awaken from the frightening dream and immediately change the outcome; when he goes back to sleep, his mind will then choose the safe path. Eventually, the dream stops recurring. Other therapeutic approaches have also been helpful for the veteran. For example, if a veteran is living in an unstable environment or has experienced a recent major loss in his life, he may need his time and daily routines completely managed until the crisis has passed. Voluntary hospitalization at such a time may be helpful to alleviate his family and job responsibilities, providing him with extra rest, and permitting him a relative state of dependency on staff personnel. During this time, he will be prescribed medications if necessary, will have a therapist, and be able to participate in a supportive group of patients with similar problems. Dr. Horowitz, who has advocated "phase-oriented" psychotherapy, has described the symptoms of trauma victims, which often vacillate between extremes of symptoms typical of Phase 2 (denial-numbing) and Phase 3 (intrusive-repetitive). Survivors who avoid recalling emotionally painful traumatic memories benefit from supportive therapists who can give "tolerable doses of awareness" while helping to maintain a balance between extremes of either group of symptoms. (Next Month: Part II) ------------------- NAM VET Newsletter Page 23 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 From: VIETNAM VETERANS: THE ROAD TO RECOVERY by Joel Osler Brende, MD and Erwin Randolph Parsons, PhD. New York: New American Library, 1986. Signet paperback edition. Chapter 9: "Recovery Phases," pp. 217-236. NAM VET Newsletter Page 24 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Old Salt's Lament Input by: Ray "Frenchy" Moreau Herndon Byte eXchange - Herndon, VA (703) 471-8010 Had this since 1955 - Was given to me when onboard the Edward H. Allen (DE531) at NavShip Yard New York. Went for underway training and tied up in Havana, Cuba in 1957 (just when things got a little muddy with Castro and Baptista). Just another locker full of history or memorabilia. (Author - Unknown) The Navy's very different now From what it used to be. Thus do the old salts all complain To boots like you and me; But we can't help but wonder, As we hear them fan the breeze, If they've not sort of overlooked A few odd facts like these: The firerooms were no cooler In the gold old days of yore; There were just as many hours In a sleepy "twelve-to-four;" There was "turn-to" just as often; And we also understand That the deck were treated then, as now With holystone and sand. They stood the same inspections In the days that used to be, And they stood the same old watches, When the ship put out to sea. Yes, they drank the same old coffee And wore the same regulation blues; And they used the same excuses When caught wearing non-regulation shoes. They had just as many scoffers In the days of long ago, And they showed the same capacity Our modern scoffers show. They had all the same old mess-cooks. And they were just as slow. NAM VET Newsletter Page 25 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 And they growled--but they shipped over In the days of long ago. Yes, the Navy's very different now, As all the old salts state, So boots like you and me accept The stories they relate. But we can't help but wonder As they talk the time away, If the old salts used to tell the tales That the old salts tell today. NAM VET Newsletter Page 26 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 "SAY OVER, MARY" By Jim Boyle, Sgt., USMC Vietnam: `69-`70 Dallas, Texas Mary was seven months pregnant when I left her. I'll never forget how she looked that day, wearing a yellow smock with her beautiful, long, dark hair. We were all gathered in the terminal at Houston's Hobby Airport, making small talk. Her Mom and Dad and two brothers were with us, but all I could do was look at her. When the boarding announcement came she started to cry. One final kiss, and I started down the ramp pausing for one final look. She was sobbing and her makeup was running down her cheeks. I wanted to run back to comfort her, but I turned around and continued walking. I kept reminding myself that thirteen months would go by in no time. Yeah, right! Welcome back to sunny California, and Camp Pendleton. I was assigned to the 3rd Replacement Co., Staging Bn., but after 20 years the memories are a little fuzzy. All Marines who received orders for WESPAC (Western Pacific) were given this little vacation. It was designed to get you back in shape quickly, teach you a little about staying alive, and otherwise put you back into a "Combat Mode". What I remember is the mountains. Strap on a pack, grab your helmet, and go... every "range" we went to was on top of one of those mountains. Eat a little dust and hump, hump. For some strange reason our weapon was the WWII style M-1. The reason given was that "there were a lot of them in `Nam, and you had to know how to use `em". Yeah, right! The days were full and the nights were short. All I looked forward to was the weekend, and THE phone call to Mary. I had filled out a ton of paperwork, setting up a monthly allotment check for her. In our first phone call I told her how it was supposed to work, but there would be a two month delay until the checks started. She would be staying with her folks, but a new baby needed all kinds of stuff! We talked of California where we had spent the few months of our marriage. I had been stationed at the Marine Resupply Depot at Barstow. We talked about our old friends there and I told her I'd try to get up there next weekend. Never got a chance to go. The Marine Corps in it's infinite wisdom is scared to death that every building, on every base, is destined to destruction. So every night someone has to stand "Firewatch". Now, these folks couldn't be left without supervision, so the Duty NCO was born. I spent the next weekend sitting in an office writing "02:00 Post and building all secure", etc. Yeah, right! The next thing I knew we were on buses headed for the Marine Air Station at El Toro. I tried to find a few buddies there, but had no luck. The next morning, bright and early (why is it always early) we were standing in the parking lot with all our gear. I had bought a "cold weather" shirt off another guy, but was still shivering. Little did I know what a fond memory this would become. The moments passed then I heard "Hey, Top" and spun around. "Gunny!, where the hell ya been?" It was Bruce, crazy Bruce. The guys in the barracks had said he was in the hospital. His head had been shaved on one side, he looked a little white, but still had the same evil grin. "What the hell happened to you, they said you NAM VET Newsletter Page 27 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 were in the hospital". He looked a little sheepish. "Well, I racked up the cycle pretty good and they had to put a plate in my scull". "How the hell did you do that?", I replied. He went on to describe how he had been on a `trip', was cruisin' down the freeway and decided to stand on the seat. Apparently the metal divider had kind of broken his fall. Yeah, right! Land in Hawaii, and refuel the plane. Days... later, land in Guam and refuel the plane. Land again, must be time to refuel. Nope, not this time we have arrived in sunny, downtown Okinawa. The end of the line for my WESPAC orders. Get on a bus and head for Camp Henderson, the most Godforsaken place I've ever been. My Marine Corps, in its utter wisdom had decided to cram in as many replacement Marines as could fit, along with as many returning Marines (from `Nam) as, well, you know. What a recipe! The pot, as it were, was the EM Club. Us: Gung Ho, young, immature, ready for action. Them: Fresh from the bush, all-knowing, don't give a shit. It was not pretty.... I had the duty once again. Someone decided it would be fun to drop a Frag in the Club, 50 or 60 wounded as I recall. MP's swinging nightsticks wildly. Marine walks into an office and unloads with a .45 at some Top Sargent. Formations every two hours, and they had you here. Miss a formation and you might not hear your new orders. Since we were assigned to the 9th MAB there were three possible destinations: Stay on Okinawa, go to the Philippines, or go somewhere else south and west of here. At this moment Vietnam was just a word to me. They wouldn't waste all the electronics training they'd put me through, and send me to a damn jungle would they? Yeah, right! It was raining when we landed in Danang. I learned later that we were coming into monsoon season. I can still remember something that one of my Instructors had said in Radar school. "Since you guys have a clearance, they won't put you with the grunts". I thought about that as I rode in the "six-by" to my new outfit at Hill 10, BLT 2/26. When we arrived it was dark, and raining. I still remember the first night. Intermittent bursts of light and the sounds of artillery. We "new-guys" spent the night on a wooden floor of our first "hooch". Since we didn't know the difference between "incoming" and "outgoing" the first loud "whooooossshh" sent us scampering into the foxhole outside. We were greeted with loud guffaws as we landed in a foot of water. Next day, I was formally assigned to H&S Co., Comm Platoon. At that time each Comm Platoon was comprised of a Wire section (responsible for all field-phone and switchboard operation), a Radio section (responsible for insuring all radio operation), and a Tech Shop (responsible for all maintenance on the above). Whirlwind time- get full issue, M-16, Flak jacket, cammo's, canteens, etc. Check in with all other Battalion departments, especially the Mail Room! In the midst of all this the Bn. was packing up, we were going aboard ship. Another "six-by" ride through the countryside, many strange sights, sounds, and smells! We unload finally at Danang harbour. After a little confusion into the Landing Craft we go. Immediately, an argument breaks out between a Sargent and a Navy Chief. "There ain't no way a bunch of gyrenes are gonna get on my ship with loaded ammo". "Dammit, Chief we all just loaded up our clips on the dock". A conversation was held on the radio. A little later we were all standing by the side, flipping round after round into the water. I thought to myself, "Is this any way to run a war?". Yeah, right! NAM VET Newsletter Page 28 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Our new home was the USS New Orleans, a helicopter carrier. The Troop Compartment was a little crowded, row after row of bunks stacked 6 high, with about 18 inches in between. Life settled into quick boredom. Lines for everything: the Head, Messhall, Formations, etc. With time on my hands, the thoughts started. How's Mary and the baby doing? When are we gonna get paid, so I can send her some money? When is my mail ever gonna catch up with me? Mail was so important! I had gotten a few letters while in Staging, but nothing since. News blackout- is everything OK? Without mail you didn't know. The best turn around time for a letter was 10 days. If a question was asked in a letter it took at least that long to receive a reply. Most of the time the letters arrived out of sequence, adding to the confusion. I tried to write every day, and Mary did the same. I just hoped everything was OK. A few memories stick out: Refueling at sea, where a line is shot between the ship and a tanker. Fuel lines are pulled across and the "smoking lamp is out". Some poor soul is transferred to the ship from another using a "bosun's chair". Strapped into a little seat suspended from a cable, he is pulled across. The ships get out of sync, the cable drops and he's dumped into the water. Watching movies on the hangar deck, going back to the fantail to have a smoke. Typhoon in the Gulf of Tonkin, with 30 foot seas. Lots of people seasick, but luckily not me. The plus side was - no lines for a few days! Good news comes in an announcement that all tours are being reduced to 12 months, instead of 13. Only 11 more months to go. The first letter from Mary arrives! News at last, both she and baby are doing fine. I take my first chopper ride. Some of the Comm gear has to go to a higher echelon shop, so we strap it to pack frames and head for the flight deck. The ramp of the CH-46 is slippery and I need help to get up it. We sit down on fold-out canvas seats. Tremendous noise from the engine, cables singing, then nothing. Crew Chief points to 2 people and they get off. More engine noise, chopper kinds of just squats there. The finger points again, and several more leave. This time we slowly get airborne, move off the side of the ship, drop suddenly 20 feet and we're off! The whole trip we move 10 feet above the waves, then the land appears. We get off the chopper and are surrounded with huge stacks of bright orange US Mail sacks. So that's why my mail took so long to arrive. "Through rain, sleet, and the dead of night", but not typhoons. Yeah, right! Welcome to LZ Rockcrusher, about 10 miles further west of Hill 10. The baby is due in about 2 weeks, and I'm starting to get a little crazy. Everyone knows about my situation, especially the Message Center. Fill sand bags, more sand bags. Raining almost constantly now, everything has turned into a sea of mud. We constructed sidewalks made out of empty ammo crates. The Shop gets set up, after a few days the generator arrives, and we get lights. We build an EM Club and then it arrives - beer! Our hootches are built by the Seebees, framed out in wood with a canvas tent stretched over it. Plywood floor and screens all around. Add a cot, pancho liner, ammo crate for a locker, and you have Home, Sweet Home. The Gunny gives us the afternoon off, and a buddy and I head out for Freedom Hill. Except for the corrugated tin roofs and sandbags, it could pass for a shopping center back in the world. Huge PX with aisle after aisle packed with goodies, and air conditioned to boot. Huge movie theater with cushioned seats, just like home. Snack bars which served hamburgers and hotdogs. Ice NAM VET Newsletter Page 29 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 cold beers, it was pig out time for sure. No C-Rats tonight! Time passes and the letters from Mary are sporadic. The baby is due any day, then her letters stop. In a past letter she mentions that the allotment check still hasn't arrived. We get paid, and I send her most of it in a check. More waiting, still no word. Get a military drivers licence for jeeps and ammo carriers. Start making the daily FSR run into Red Beach at Danang. Lots of new sights. Stopped at a road junction on Highway 1, near Dogpatch. Waiting for a long Korean convoy to go by. Kids quickly converge around the jeep, reaching in. I grab my rifle off the steering column and they back off. Finally get moving again. By accident I run into Ron at FSR. He and his wife had been stationed with us in Barstow. We exchange a little small talk. He's working in the Krypto Shop there and wants to know what it's like in the bush. All I could do was laugh, bush, huh! Back to the Rockcrusher. A couple of days pass and now Mary is almost 2 weeks overdue. I talk to the Lieutenant and he gives me permission to go to the 1st Mar Div MARS station and make a call home. I hitch a ride there only to find out that calls can only be made on even numbered days. Aw, sh*t! A few days later I tried again. The MARS station was comprised of a waiting room containing 6 or 8 chairs, and the Radio booth which had a glass window. Just outside this window was a phone. You would give the Radio Operator the phone number back in the states you wanted to call. A Radio call would be transmitted to the MARS station in Hawaii, again giving the phone number. The Operator in Hawaii would then try to locate a HAM operator as close to the city as possible. The HAM operator would patch the radio call into a landline, and the charges were based on the landline call only. This operation requires a strict protocol as conversation only flows in one direction at a time. All operators are listening and must switch between transmit and receive manually. I didn't know any of this then, I just gave the number and had a seat. One by one guys were called over to the phone, made their call and left. Wait some more. Suddenly. I was called over. The operator slid back the glass and said "She's not at home, they said she's in the hospital and just had a baby. We're not supposed to do this, but we're trying to get the number of the hospital. Have a seat". My stomach filled up with butterflies, and it was hard to breathe. I was called over again and picked up the phone. "Cpl. Boyle, you start. Say over when you're done". Taking a deep breath I said "Hi Darlin', what did we have? Over". "Oh, honey I can't believe it's you! We have a little girl and she's so precious. When the man called and said there was a call from you I just couldn't believe it". Pause.... "Say Over, Mary", some voice intervened. "Oh, Over". "Honey, what did we name her? Over". "Her name is Lisa Dawn". Pause.... Again, "Say Over, Mary". "Over". "That's great news,babe! Are you doing OK, and baby, too. Over". "We're both fine, I'm just a little tired" ... "Over". We exchanged a few more words and then it was over. "Hey, don't forget to bring me a cigar the next time you come". I assured him I wouldn't and asked him where I could crash for the night. It was 1 or 2 in the morning and I was suddenly very tired. "Just pull a couple of chairs together, we have people from the bush all the time". Yeah, right! Postscript: I met Mary in Hawaii for R&R, about 3 months later. She brought little Lisa with her, and it was quite a reunion! What can you say when you hold your first child in your arms? And when you haven't seen your young wife in over 6 months! Twenty years NAM VET Newsletter Page 30 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ago. I'm proud to say Lisa isn't "little" any longer. She's quite a young woman, and in her second year at the University of Texas at Austin. And my Mary is still the same, only I love her more. NAM VET Newsletter Page 31 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 I ain't here alone! By Michael J. Martin Input by: Glenn Toothman NAM VETs MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker - Karnes County, TX VetPoint 8 (1:321/203.8) & FidoNet 1:387/801 One night this fellow at the bar started talkin' 'bout the war Tears of Rage welled up in his eyes He said he'd been through Hell In the jungles and the jails Just lost another job and another wife He said, "They just don't understand what it does to a man I just can't seem to shake it from my mind I pulled up a stool said, "Shake the hand of another fool I was there in '68 and 69 (Chorus) "And they ain't gonna bury me while I'm still livin' Aint gonna shut me up 'til my story's been told I don't need o parades... I don't need no forgivin' I just need to know...I aint here alone I said "I aint never been too sure if it was Luck or the Lord I just know that somehow I survived I've slept out in the rain Been damn near blown away But, buddy, I, by God, learned how to fight And when I had to decide if it was Them or Me..gonna Live or Die there was no time for analyzin 'Wrong or Right' I got plenty of regrets got a lot of things I just can't forget But, Buddy, I'm still glad to be alive" (Chorus) Well, he and I were strangers but we talked like we were brothers Laughed about the leeches and the girls on R and R We talked of monsoons and mamasans and the N.V.A and the Viet Cong And we cried about our buddies that died in that damn war And we talked about the waste and all the bitterness and pain of comin back and findin' out nobody cared no more NAM VET Newsletter Page 32 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 We put our arms around each other just two more weary warriors who didn't feel quite so alone as we had felt before And we sang, "they aint gonna bury me.... "(Chorus) NAM VET Newsletter Page 33 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= V e t e r a n B e n e f i t s ================================================================= VA PENSIONS INCREASE FOR VETERANS VA NEWS RELEASE DATED 22 NOVEMBER 1989 Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md. More than 700,000 veterans and dependents will receive up to 4.7 percent increase in Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Improved Pension checks payable Dec 31, 1989. VA Secretary Edward J. Derwinski said he hopes to announce a similar increase in disability compensation rates for disabled veterans before the year is out. VA pensions are paid to wartime veterans totally and permanently disabled from circumstances unrelated to their military service, and to needy survivors of wartime veterans. The pension increase applies to 436,505 veterans of wartime service and 260,708 surviving spouses and children. Payment increases will also go to 31,311 parents of deceased veterans receiving Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) benefits. The increase in monthly payments is automatic and requires no action by recipients. Pension benefits range from annual maximums of $6,76 for a veteran without dependents to $15,222 for a veteran with three dependents who is in need of regular aid an attendance. Unlike compensation benefits paid to veterans disabled by illness or injuries related to military service, pensions are affected by income from other sources, so the exact amount of the increase varies. Increases in Improved Pension to wartime veterans and dependents and DIC payments to deceased veterans' parents are set by law at the same rate and date as Social Security increases. VA pensions other than the Improved Pension remain fixed at the rates in effect in 1978. The income limits that control eligibility for these programs, however, also are increased by 4.7 percent, effective Dec 1. Recipients of these pensions may request transfer to the Improved Pension plan at any time. The VA reviews each request to advise beneficiaries which program would be most advantageous. Veterans and dependents with questions about pensions should contact the nearest VA regional Office. Federal Benefits? Ask me!!! - Jim - NAM VET Newsletter Page 34 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 VETERANS REMINDED OF BURIAL BENEFITS VA News Release Dated: 6 November 1989 Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md Veterans should know that one Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) benefit to which nearly all former armed services members are entitled is burial in a national cemetery. VA's National Cemetery System expects to provide burials to nearly 60,000 veterans and their family members this year. But a VA survey found that only about one-third of veterans are aware that they, their spouses and dependent children may be buried in a national cemetery. Veterans, except those with dishonorable discharges, are entitled to burial in any of VA's national cemeteries that have space. Service members with exclusively Reserve or National Guard service may be interred in a national cemetery only if they die while on active duty for training. Although families cannot reserve gravesites in a national cemetery, a veteran can make things easier for survivors by keeping his or her discharge certificate and other military service records accessible, and verifying eligibility at any VA office. Burial is also available to a veteran's widow or widower (if she or he has not remarried), as well as to unmarried children under age 21 and, under certain circumstances, unmarried adult children. Dependents do not have to be buried in the same cemetery as the veteran. For eligible veterans and family members, VA handles gravesite preparation and burial, furnishes a headstone or marker and flag, and provides perpetual care. In some national cemeteries, graveliners are furnished at no expense. However, VA does not provide funeral arrangements, transportation or military honors, which often can be arranged by funeral directors through nearby military facilities or veterans organizations. When a veteran or dependent dies, documents supporting eligibility should be given to the funeral director who will contact the cemetery where burial is requested. Of VA 113 national cemeteries, 66 have space available for the first casket burials of a family member. In the other 47 -- considered "closed" -- an eligible family member may be buried if a previous family member interment has occurred. Most of the closed national cemeteries can accept cremation burials. Other burial benefits are available to veterans who may not choose national cemetery interment. VA will furnish a headstone or grave marker for a veteran's unmarked grave anywhere in the world and a memorial marker to recognize a veteran whose remains were not recovered or for other reasons were not buried. As an alternative, VA will reimburse up to $80.00 of the cost to purchase a marker privately. Dependent's graves may receive a government marker only in a national or state veterans cemetery. Veterans' families also may receive an American flag for covering a casket and a memorial certificate bearing the signature of the President, expressing the nations's recognition of the NAM VET Newsletter Page 35 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 deceased veteran's service. Information on VA burial benefits is available from most funeral directors, national cemetery offices and VA regional offices, which are listed in the "U.S. Government" section of the telephone directories. Federal Benefits? Ask me!!! - Jim - NAM VET Newsletter Page 36 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= M i s s i n g ! ! ! ================================================================= CHRISTMAS AND POW'S By: Glenn Toothman NAM VETs MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker - Karnes County, TX VetPoint 8 (1:321/203.8) & FidoNet 1:387/801 This holiday season while you are enjoying your meal, looking at the fantastic lights around town and your house, watching your children open their gifts, as you enjoy the services of your choice, celebrate the coming of Christ, or Hanaka, take the time to reflect on our comrades who have not returned yet. These persons may be yet alive, or deceased, whatever the case, we need to reflect on these comrades. As I sit in front of the terminal close to the tree, looking over my shoulder to see the gifts there, I can't help but think "but for the will of God, I might be one of those unfortunate few who are still unaccounted for. I sometimes just think that even if the beings missing, were deceased, they still need to come home, I take time to reflect on this. I look up at the crystal clear sky, look at the stars, the galaxy, the universe, and ponder these men. I take the time to think and feel for them. I still carry the memories of some men that I lost, but they came home... both in my mind (after my trip to the 'wall') and physically (they rest in various places, church cemeteries, veteran cemeteries, city cemeteries) but they still rest in peace. The christmas carol goes through my mind.... Silent Night, Holy Night, all is calm, all is bright, 'round yon virgin, mother and child... sleep in heavenly peace, sleep in heavenly peace. I am not a religious person, however, when I heard that last night, the sky was clear, the stars seemed to be sparkling extra bright, and I remembered my fellow warriors that still have not returned. There is a song written by a couple of Namvets (Mike Martin and Tim 'Doc' Holliday) called 'The Last Firebase' there is a verse in it that rings true to heart for me... in part it says "Sergeant Major can we stand down now? Yes, but keep the homefires burning there's one patrol still out" The one patrol is the MIA-POW persons, and the homefires are kept burning in my heart, at each of the gatherings that I and others sponsor there is a small fire going, regardless if it is 25 degrees or 125 degrees, it is the homefire, to guide the last patrol in... I just sit here and remember some of the times I had over in the Nam.. quite warm, humid, listening to Earnest Tubbs singing 'Blue Christmas' (the only Christmas song we had). I remember in 66 taking a deuce and half and driving out to Indian country, to get a tree, decorating it with C rat cans, smoke and grenade pins, some of the Donut Dollies and USO girls came over and made some decorations... Going down to the 'Club' on Christmas eve and getting depressed because we couldn't be with our loved ones. I had quite a few OD Christmases but only two in country. We still have persons over there that must celebrate this day, at least in their minds or NAM VET Newsletter Page 37 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 memories, these are the men I think of at this time of year... Merry Christmas, to one and all, and especially those who cannot be here in the land of the great PX, and those who have been kept behind, we think of you. Keep your nose in the Mud, from those of us at the Commo Bunker of Karnes County, TX Home of "Vietnam Veterans UnderGround" NAM VET Newsletter Page 38 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 W W M M W W M M M M W W \ / M M M M OOOO W W W --*-- M M M IIII O O W W W W / \ M M II O O W W W W M M II O O W W M M II O O II PPPPPP O O ..... II AA PP PP OOOO . '' '' .. IIII A A PP PP ..' '.. A A PPPPPPP ..' ''. A A PP ..' '. AAAAAA PP .' ''. A A PP .' '. A A .' .:::::.. '. .' .::::::::::. ' .' .::::::::::::::. '. .' __ .::::::::::::::::;:... '. .' _- -_ .:::::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' _-_ _ _ -_ ::::::::::::::::::::::::' '. .. _- -!!___!!!-_:::::::::::::::::::::::. .. .' ==_ _- _= .:::::::::::::::::::::::: ', . =-_= _= = :::::::::::::::::::::::: . .' =-_ =_- = ::::::::::::::::::::::: '. .' = - -_ =_:::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' -_ -_- .:::::::::::::::::::;;;. '. .' _-_ ..::::::::::::::::::::::::; '. . _ _ .:;:::::::::::::::::::::;, . ' _ .:::::::::::::::::::::::::. '. Y .'.....::::::::::::::::::::::::::;' '. N ::::::::::::::::::::::::' `''' ': O `::::::::::::::::::::::: \v/ \ / :'E `:::::::::::::::::::::: =========================== :' U `:::::::::::::::::::::. /^\ \ :'T `:::::::::::::::::::: .: A `:::::::::::::::::: .:'T `::::::::::::::::::. .;' R `:::::::::::::::::. .;' T `::::::::::::::::. .;' E `:::::::::gjp::: .:' O `:::::::::::::...........'' G N O T F O R " Bring them home --- NOW !!! " NAM VET Newsletter Page 39 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 NATIONAL LEAGUE OF FAMILIES OF AMERICAN PRISONERS AND MISSING IN SOUTHEAST ASIA Input by: Glenn Toothman NAM VETs MIA-POW Section Editor The Commo Bunker - Karnes County, TX VetPoint 8 (1:321/203.8) & FidoNet 1:387/801 December 5, 1989 Newsletter MORE ACCOUNTABILITY: The Department of Defense recently announced the names of the following americans, previously listed as unaccounted for in North Vietnam, whose remains were identified and returned to their families: COL Floyd W. Richardson USAF missing 3 March 67 COL Charles D. Roby USAF missing 3 March 67 COL James C. Hartney USAF missing 5 Jan 68 LTC Gordon B. Blackwood USAF missing 27 May 67 LTC Robert Irwin USAF missing 17 Feb 72 MAJ Larry Martin USAF missing 15 Jul 68 CAPT Daniel L. Carrier USAF missing 2 Jun 67 LT David Kardell USNR missing 9 May 65 Including these individuals, 260 americans (231 from Vietnam, 27 from Laos and 2 from PRC) previously missing in Southeast Asia have been accounted for. These latest identifications reduce the number still prisoner, missing and unaccounted for in Indochina to 2,323. Comment: To each of the families involved, the League extends sincere understanding, though grateful that their many years of uncertainty have ended. Those who claim no progress is being made should consider the 184 families whose loved one's remains have been returned since priority was established in 1982. VETERANS DAY: During the Veterans Day ceremony held at Arlington National Cemetery, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Colin L. Powell, speaking on behalf of President Bush, strongly reaffirmed the U.S. Government's commitment to resolving the POW/MIA issue, stating, ". . . We, the veterans who returned -- and indeed all American citizens -- have an obligation to account for these missing comrades in arms. We owe this to their families and we owe it to future generations of Americans, but most of all, we owe to our missing buddies... These missing American veterans did not swerve from their duty to fight for freedom. We must not either. I can assure you that I will not rest, that President Bush will not rest, that this nation will not rest; until we have obtained the fullest possible accounting for our missing in action. This is more than a promise-- it is a solemn oath." EDUCATIONAL VIDEO AVAILABLE SOON: The League's educational video, providing a comprehensive overview of the issue, is scheduled for public release following the first of the year. This VHS video will be available on a secured loan and purchase basis and is ideal in academic settings and to replace speakers at many events. NAM VET Newsletter Page 40 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 OPPOSITION TO H.R. 3603: The board of directors voted unanimously to oppose this legislation, introduced by Representatives Denny Smith (D-OR) and Bob Smith (R-NH), calling for the "heads of Federal departments and agencies to disclose information" concerning Americans classified as POW or MIA dating back to World War II. Public declassification has long been opposed by the League, as such release could jeopardize any American who may still be held. It should be noted that the U.S. Government policy of full disclosure, established in 1982 and enacted into law in 1988, ensures that all information which does or may correlate to a missing American is provided to the primary next-of-kin. SPECIAL MESSAGE FROM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: The Vessey Mission to Hanoi and the Lambertson Mission to the Vientiane were critical to the issue. I am confident in the U.S. Government's commitment to "do all a government can", as stated by President Bush during the League's 20th Annual Meeting. If the Indochinese Governments seriously honor these agreements, there will be greatly expanded results due to increased viability of the process. Going into 1990, there is valid reason for optimism . As always, careful monitoring of the process is crucial. The League has the determination and ability to accomplish that objective. Your prayers and support sustain the board of directors, the staff and me. We are grateful. A special gift to the League in honor of a missing American would be appropriate and welcome during the Holiday Season. Best wishes for a safe, joyful and peace- filled holiday season and a New Year filled with many blessings. NAM VET Newsletter Page 41 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Listing of MIA's - Last Names ending in A through E Input by: Charles Harper Classic City Node-2 - Athens, GA (404) 548-0726 "I got the file off of PC-EXEC in Milwaukee but since then I have seen a few messages in reference to POW BBS on a few boards." - Charles Harper - (Note from Joe: The list is BIG! and includes info on Biographies on the individual MIA's. I've split it into three parts. Parts 2 and 3 will be published in subsequent issues.) From: *** The POW Network *** 319-386-7697 List of Available Bios December 8, 1989 Lastname First Mid. Branch-Rank Incident Country ======== ========== =========== ======== ======= ACALOTTO ROBERT J. ARMY E4 20-Feb-71 LAOS ACKLEY JAMES W. CIV 07-Mar-73 LAOS ACOSTA-ROSARIO HUMBERTO ARMY E3 22-Aug-68 SVN ADACHI THOMAS Y. USAF E5 22-Apr-70 LAOS ADAM JOHN Q. USAF E3 22-May-68 LAOS ADAMS JOHN R. ARMY E2 08-Nov-67 SVN ADAMS LEE A. USAF O2 19-Apr-66 NVN ADAMS OLEY N. USAF E5 17-Jun-66 SVN/OW ADAMS SAMUEL USAF E5 31-Oct-65 SVN ADAMS STEVEN H. USAF E3 18-Oct-66 NVN/OW ADKINS CHARLES L. ARMY E4 02-Feb-68 SVN AGOSTO SANTOS JOSE USMC E3 12-May-67 SVN AHLMEYER HEINZ JR. USMC E1 10-May-67 SVN ALBERTSON BOBBY J. USAF E5 31-May-66 NVN ALBRIGHT JOHN S. II USAF O2 13-Dec-68 LAOS ALDRICH LAWRENCE L. ARMY E4 06-May-68 SVN ALFORD TERRY L. ARMY W1 04-Nov-69 SVN ALFRED GERALD O. JR. USAF O2 11-Dec-66 NVN ALGAARD HAROLD L. ARMY W1 04-Mar-71 NVN ALLARD RICHARD M. ARMY E4 24-Aug-67 SVN ALLEE RICHARD K. USAF O3 21-Dec-68 LAOS ALLEN HENRY L. USAF O2 26-Mar-70 LAOS ALLEN MERLIN R. USMC E3 30-Jun-67 SVN ALLEN WAYNE C. ARMY E5 10-Jan-70 SVN ALLEY GERALD W. USAF O5 22-Dec-72 NVN ALLEY JAMES H. USAF E4 06-Apr-72 SVN ALLGOOD FRANKIE E. USMC O5 26-Mar-68 SVN/OW ALM RICHARD A. USMC O4 01-Feb-66 NVN ALMENDARIZ SAMUEL ARMY E7 12-Jul-67 LAOS ALTIZER ALBERT H. ARMY E3 08-Oct-69 SVN ALWAN HAROLD J. USMC O4 27-Feb-67 SVN/OW AMESBURY HARRY A. JR. USAF O4 26-Apr-72 SVN AMOS THOMAS H. USAF O3 20-Apr-72 SVN AMSPACHER WILLIAM H. USN E4 02-Jun-65 NVN ANDERSON DENIS L. USN O2 11-Jan-68 LAOS ANDERSON EVELYN CIV 27-Oct-72 LAOS ANDERSON GREGORY L. USAF E4 28-Jan-70 NVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 42 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ANDERSON ROBERT D. USAF O5 06-Oct-72 NVN ANDERSON WARREN L. USAF O3 26-Apr-66 NVN ANDREWS STUART M USAF O4 04-Mar-66 SVN ANDREWS WILLIAM L. USAF O3 05-Oct-66 NVN ANGELL MARSHALL J. ARMY E5 12-Dec-63 SVN ANGSTADT RALPH HAROLD USAF O4 18-Oct-66 NVN/OW ANSPACH ROBERT A. ARMY E8 11-Sep-67 SVN ANTON FRANCIS G. ARMY W2 05-Jan-68 SVN/NV ANTUNANO GREGORY A. ARMY E5 24-Jul-71 CAMB APODACA VICTOR J. USAF O3 08-Jun-67 NVN APPELHANS RICHARD D. USAF O3 16-Oct-67 LAOS APPLEBY IVAN D. USAF O4 07-Oct-67 NVN ARD RANDOLPH J. ARMY W1 07-Mar-71 LAOS ARMISTEAD STEVEN R. USMC O2 17-Mar-69 LAOS ARMSTRONG JOHN W. USAF O5 09-Nov-67 LAOS ARPIN CLAUDE CIV 06-APR-70 CAMB ARROYO-BAEZ GERASINO ARMY E6 24-Mar-69 SVN ASHALL ALAN F. USN O2 29-Aug-68 NVN ASHBY CLAYBORN W. JR. USN E5 17-Feb-68 LAOS ASHLOCK CARLOS USMC E4 12-May-67 SVN ASTON JAY S. ARMY W1 18-Jul-71 SVN ASTORGA JOSE M. ARMY E4 02-Apr-72 SVN AUSTIN CHARLES D. USAF O2 26-Apr-67 NVN AUSTIN ELLIS E. USN O4 21-Apr-66 NVN AUXIER JERRY E. ARMY E6 29-Jul-68 SVN AVERY ALLEN J. USAF E6 06-Apr-72 SVN AYRES GERALD F. USAF O4 18-Jun-72 SVN BABCOCK RONALD L. ARMY O3 27-Feb-71 LAOS BACKUS KENNETH F. USAF O2 22-May-67 NVN BADER ARTHUR E. ARMY E5 30-Nov-68 LAOS BADOLATI FRANK N. ARMY E6 29-Jan-66 SVN BAILEY LAWRENCE ROBERT ARMY O4 23-Mar-61 LAOS BAILON RUBEN CIV 25-Dec-65 SVN BALAMONTI MICHAEL D. USAF O4 24-Nov-69 LAOS BALCOM RALPH C. USAF O3 15-May-66 NVN BALLENGER ORVILLE ROGER ARMY E5 22-Apr-61 LAOS BANCROFT WILLIAM W. USAF O2 13-Nov-70 NVN BANKOWSKI ALFONS A. USAF E5 23-Mar-61 LAOS BANNON PAUL W. USAF O4 12-Jul-69 LAOS BARBER THOMAS D. USN E3 17-Mar-68 NVN/OW BARNES CHARLES R. ARMY O3 16-Mar-69 SVN BARNETT CHARLES E. USN O5 23-May-72 NVN BARTOCCI JOHN E. USN O4 31-Aug-68 SVN/OW BATES PAUL J. JR. ARMY O3 10-Aug-71 SVN BATT MICHAEL L. ARMY E4 16-Mar-69 SVN BAUDER JAMES R. USN O4 21-Sep-66 NVN BAUMAN RICHARD L. ARMY W2 17-Mar-71 CAMB BAXTER BRUCE R. ARMY E8 08-Nov-67 LAOS BEALS CHARLES E. ARMY E4 07-Jul-70 SVN BEBUS CHARLES J. USAF E3 21-Dec-72 NVN BECERRA RUDY M. ARMY E4 24-Mar-70 CAMB BECK TERRY L. USN E4 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW BECKER JAMES C. ARMY O2 15-Aug-70 LAOS BECKWITH HARRY M. ARMY E5 24-Mar-71 SVN BEDNAREK JOHNATHAN B. USAF O2 18-May-72 NVN BEECHER QUENTIN R. ARMY W2 11-Jun-67 SVN/OW BEENS LYNN R. USAF O3 21-Dec-72 NVN BELCHER ROBERT A. USAF O4 28-Mar-69 SVN BELL HOLLY G. USAF O4 28-Jan-70 NVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 43 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 BELL MARVIN E. USAF E5 30-Jun-70 LAOS BELL RICHARD W. USN E4 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW BENEDETT DANIEL A. USMC E2 15-May-75 CAMB BENGE MICHAEL CIV 28-Jan-68 SVN BENNETT HAROLD G. ARMY E4 29-Dec-64 SVN BENNETT THOMAS W. JR. USAF O3 22-Dec-72 NVN BENSON LEE D. USN O2 17-Mar-68 NVN/OW BENTON GREGORY R. USMC E2 23-May-69 SVN BERDAHL DAVID D. ARMY E3 20-Jan-72 SVN BERG BRUCE A. ARMY E5 07-Aug-71 SVN BERG GEORGE P. ARMY W1 18-Feb-71 LAOS BERGEVIN CHARLES L. USAF O2 23-Aug-68 NVN BERNHARDT ROBERT E. USAF O2 05-Feb-73 LAOS BERRY JOHN A. ARMY W1 05-Dec-68 SVN BESSOR BRUCE C. ARMY O2 13-May-69 LAOS BEUTEL ROBERT D. USAF O2 26-Nov-71 LAOS BEYER THOMAS J. USAF O3 30-Jul-68 SVN BEZOLD STEVEN ARMY O2 29-Oct-68 NVN BIBBS WAYNE ARMY E3 11-Jun-72 SVN BIBER GERALD MACK ARMY E5 22-Apr-61 LAOS BIDWELL BARRY A. USN E5 18-Jun-71 NVN/OW BIFOLCHI CHARLES L. USAF O2 08-Jan-68 SVN BIGGS EARL R. ARMY E7 16-Jan-68 SVN BINGHAM KLAUS Y. ARMY E6 10-May-71 SVN BIRCHIM JAMES D. ARMY O2 15-Nov-68 SVN BISCHOFF JOHN MALCOM ARMY E7 22-Apr-61 LAOS BISHOP EDWARD J. JR. ARMY E3 29-Apr-70 SVN BISZ RALPH C. USN O2 04-Aug-67 NVN BIVENS HERNDON A. ARMY E4 15-Apr-70 SVN BLACK ARTHUR N. USAF E2 20-Sep-65 NVN BLACK PAUL V. ARMY W1 01-Mar-71 CAMB BLACKBURN HARRY L. JR. USN O5 10-May-72 NVN BLACKMAN THOMAS J. USMC E2 10-May-68 SVN BLACKWOOD GORDON B. USAF O3 27-May-67 NVN BLANTON CLARENCE F. USAF O5 11-Mar-68 LAOS BLESSING LYNN USMC E2 15-May-75 CAMB BLEWETT ALAN L. CIV 14-Jul-62 LAOS BLODGETT DOUGLAS R. ARMY E4 19-Apr-68 SVN BLOOD HENRY F. CIV 01-Feb-68 SVN BLOODWORTH DONALD B. USAF O2 24-Jul-70 LAOS BOBE RAYMOND E. ARMY E3 16-Mar-69 SVN BODDEN TIMOTHY R. USMC E5 03-Jun-67 LAOS BOFFMAN ALAN B. ARMY O2 18-Mar-71 LAOS BOGARD LONNIE P. USAF O3 12-May-72 LAOS BOGIAGES CHRISTO C. JR. USAF O4 02-Mar-69 LAOS BOHLSCHEID CURTIS R. USMC O3 11-Jun-67 SVN BOLES WARREN W. USN O2 18-Jan-68 NVN/OW BOLLINGER ARTHUR R. USAF O3 05-Feb-73 LAOS BOLTE WAYNE L. USAF O4 02-Apr-72 SVN BOLTZE BRUCE E. USMC W2 06-Oct-72 SVN/OW BOND RONALD L. USAF O2 30-Sep-71 LAOS BOOKOUT CHARLES F. ARMY E7 04-Jul-70 LAOS BOOTH GARY P. USN E4 23-Dec-70 SVN/OW BOOTH JAMES E. USAF O2 23-Jun-68 NVN BOOTH LAWRENCE R. ARMY O3 16-Oct-69 LAOS BOOZE DELMAR G. USMC O1 24-Jan-66 SVN BORAH DANIEL V. JR. USN O3 24-Sep-72 SVN BORDEN MURRAY L. USAF O2 13-Oct-66 NVN BORJA DOMINGO R. ARMY E7 21-Feb-67 LAOS NAM VET Newsletter Page 44 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 BORONSKI JOHN A. ARMY E6 24-Mar-70 CAMB BORS JOSEPH C. USAF O4 28-Apr-68 SVN BOSILJEVAC MICHAEL J. USAF O3 29-Sep-72 NVN BOSSIO GALILEO F. USAF O4 29-Jul-66 NVN BOSSMAN PETER R. USN E4 25-Sep-66 SVN BOTT RUSSELL P. ARMY E6 02-Dec-66 LAOS BOUCHARD MICHAEL L. USN O3 20-Dec-68 LAOS BOWERS RICHARD L. ARMY O3 24-Mar-69 SVN BOWMAN MICHAEL L. USN E4 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW BOYANOWSKI JOHN G. ARMY O5 14-Dec-71 SVN/OW BOYD WALTER USMC E2 15-May-75 CAMB BOYER ALAN LEE ARMY E5 28-Mar-68 LAOS BOYLE WILLIAM ARMY E7 28-Feb-70 LAOS BRANCH JAMES A. USAF O3 04-Sep-65 NVN BRANDE HARVEY G. ARMY E7 07-Feb-68 SVN BRANDENBURG DALE USAF E4 05-Feb-73 LAOS BRANDT KEITH A. ARMY O3 18-Mar-71 LAOS BRASHEAR WILLIAM J. USAF O4 08-May-69 LAOS BRASHER JIMMY M. ARMY O2 28-Sep-66 NVN/OW BRASSFIELD ANDREW T. ARMY E6 06-Apr-70 LAOS BRAUNER HENRY P. USAF O4 29-Mar-72 LAOS BRELLENTHIN MICHAEL USMC E3 25-Feb-68 SVN BREMMER DWIGHT A. ARMY E4 14-Dec-71 SVN/OW BRENNAN HERBERT O. USAF O6 26-Nov-67 NVN BRETT ROBERT A. JR. USAF O2 29-Sep-72 NVN BRIDGES JERRY G. ARMY E5 20-Oct-68 SVN BRIDGES PHILIP W. ARMY E4 30-Jun-71 SVN BRIGGS ERNEST F. ARMY E5 05-Jan-68 LAOS BRIGGS RONALD D. ARMY O2 06-Feb-69 SVN BRINCKMANN ROBERT E. USAF O4 04-Nov-66 NVN BROMS EDWARD J. USN O2 01-Aug-68 NVN BROOKS JOHN H. ARMY E4 13-May-69 SVN BROOKS NICHOLAS G. USN O3 02-Jan-70 LAOS BROOKS WILLIAM L. USAF O4 22-Apr-70 LAOS BROWER RALPH W. USAF O3 09-Nov-67 LAOS BROWN EARL C. USAF O3 24-Nov-69 LAOS BROWN EDWARD D. JR. USN O2 29-Jul-65 SVN BROWN GEORGE R. ARMY E8 28-Mar-68 LAOS BROWN HARRY W. ARMY E5 12-Feb-68 SVN BROWN JAMES A. ARMY E4 12-Aug-70 SVN BROWN ROBERT M. USAF O4 07-Nov-72 LAOS BROWN THOMAS E. USN O2 29-Apr-66 NVN BROWN WAYNE G. II USAF O3 17-Jul-72 SVN BROWN WILBUR R. USAF O3 03-Feb-66 SVN BROWN WILLIAM T. ARMY E6 03-Nov-69 LAOS BROWNLEE CHARLES R. USAF O4 24-Dec-68 LAOS BROWNLEE ROBERT W. ARMY O5 25-Apr-72 SVN BRUCH DONALD W. JR. USAF O2 29-Apr-66 NVN BRUCHER JOHN M. USAF O4 18-Feb-69 NVN BRUNSON JACK W. ARMY W2 31-May-71 LAOS BUCHER BERNARD L. USAF O4 12-May-68 SVN BUCK ARTHUR C. USN O2 11-Jan-68 LAOS BUCKLEY LOUIS ARMY E2 21-May-66 SVN BUELL KENNETH R. USN O4 17-Sep-72 NVN BULLOCK LARRY A. ARMY E3 31-Jan-67 SVN BUNKER PARK G. USAF O3 30-Dec-70 LAOS BURD DOUGLAS G. USAF O2 01-Aug-69 SVN BURGESS JOHN L. ARMY E5 30-Jun-70 SVN BURKE MICHAEL J. USMC E3 19-Oct-66 SVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 45 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 BURNAM MANSON I. USAF O3 20-Apr-72 SVN BURNETT DONALD F. USN E8 06-Feb-68 SVN/OW BURNETT SHELDON J. ARMY O5 07-Mar-71 LAOS BURNHAM DONALD D. ARMY O3 02-Feb-68 SVN BURNS FREDERICK J. USMC E3 25-Dec-67 SVN BURNS MICHAEL P. ARMY E4 31-Jul-69 LAOS BURRIS DONALD D. JR. ARMY W2 22-Dec-69 LAOS BUSCH JON T. USAF O2 08-Jun-67 NVN BUSH ELBERT W. ARMY E6 08-Jan-73 SVN BUSH JOHN R. USAF O2 24-Jul-68 NVN/OW BUSH ROBERT E. USAF O3 24-Mar-66 NVN BUTLER DEWEY R. ARMY E3 14-Jul-69 SVN BUTLER JAMES E. ARMY W1 20-Mar-70 SVN BYNUM NEIL S. USAF O2 26-Oct-69 LAOS BYRD HUGH M. JR. ARMY O3 09-Jan-69 SVN BYTHEWAY FRANK L. CIV 02-Oct-68 NVN/OW CADWELL ANTHONY B. ARMY E2 17-Oct-67 SVN CAFFARELLI CHARLES J. USAF O3 21-Dec-72 SVN/OW CAIRNS ROBERT A. USAF E5 17-Jun-66 SVN/OW CALDWELL FLOYD D. ARMY E6 14-Dec-71 SVN/OW CALFEE HAMES HENRY USAF E8 11-Mar-68 LAOS CALHOUN JOHNNY C. ARMY E4 27-Mar-68 SVN CALL JOHN H. III USAF O2 06-Apr-72 SVN CALLIES TOMMY L. USAF O3 01-Aug-69 SVN CALLOWAY PORTER E. ARMY E5 11-Mar-68 SVN CAMACHO ISSAC (IKE) ARMY E7 24-Nov-63 SVN CAMEROTA PETER P. USAF O3 22-Dec-72 NVN CAMPBELL WILLIAM E. USAF O4 29-Jan-69 LAOS CANIFORD JAMES K. USAF E5 29-Mar-72 LAOS CANNON FRANCES E. ARMY E2 08-Jan-68 SVN CAPPELLI CHARLES R. USAF O5 17-Nov-67 NVN CARLSON ALBERT E. ARMY O4 07-Apr-72 SVN CARLSON PAUL V. USN O2 13-Feb-67 SVN/OW CARPENTER HOWARD B. ARMY E5 06-Mar-67 LAOS CARR DONALD G. ARMY O3 06-Jul-71 LAOS CARROLL PATRICK H. USAF O2 02-Nov-69 LAOS CARROLL ROGER W. JR. USAF O4 21-Sep-71 LAOS CARTER GEORGE W. ARMY O4 24-Apr-72 SVN CARTER JAMES D. ARMY W1 13-Jun-68 SVN CARTER JAMES L. USAF O4 03-Feb-66 SVN CARVER HARRY F. ARMY E6 10-Apr-68 SVN CASE THOMAS F. USAF O4 31-May-66 NVN CASEY DONALD F. USAF O5 23-Jun-68 NVN CASTILLO RICHARD USAF O3 29-Mar-72 LAOS CAVAIANI JON R. ARMY E5 05-Jun-71 SVN CAVENDER JAMES R. ARMY W1 04-Nov-69 SVN CECIL ALAN B. ARMY E5 21-Sep-69 LAOS CHAMBERS JERRY L. USAF O4 22-May-68 LAOS CHAMPION JAMES A. ARMY E3 24-Apr-71 SVN CHANEY ARTHUR F. ARMY W1 03-May-68 SVN CHAPA ARMANDO JR. USN E4 06-Feb-68 SVN/OW CHAPMAN PETER H. II USAF O3 06-Apr-72 SVN CHAPMAN RODNEY M. USN O4 18-Feb-69 NVN/OW CHAVIRA STEPHEN ARMY E4 28-May-71 SVN CHESTNUT JOSEPH L. USAF O4 13-Oct-70 LAOS CHIARELLO VINCENT A. USAF O2 29-Jul-66 NVN CHOMEL CHARLES D. USMC E2 11-Jun-67 SVN CHOMYK WILLIAM USAF O3 22-Apr-68 SVN CHRISTENSEN ALLEN D. ARMY E5 03-Apr-72 SVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 46 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 CHRISTENSEN WILLIAM M. USN O2 01-Mar-66 NVN/OW CHRISTIAN DAVID M. USN O2 02-Jun-65 NVN CHRISTIANO JOSEPH USAF O4 24-Dec-65 LAOS CHRISTIANSEN EUGENE ARMY E3 06-Feb-69 SVN CHRISTIE DENNIS R. USMC E3 11-Jun-67 SVN CHRISTOPHERSEN KEITH A. USN O2 21-Jan-73 NVN/OW CHURCHILL CARL R. USAF O3 03-May-70 LAOS CICHON WALTER A. ARMY E4 30-Mar-68 SVN CIUS FRANK E. USMC E3 03-Jun-67 LAOS CLACK CECIL J. ARMY E3 01-Jan-69 SVN CLAPPER DEAN P. USAF E5 29-Dec-67 NVN CLARK JERRY P. ARMY W1 15-Dec-65 SVN CLARK LAWRENCE USAF E5 18-Oct-66 NVN/OW CLARK RICHARD C. USN O2 24-Oct-67 NVN CLARK STANLEY S. USAF O5 14-Feb-69 LAOS CLARK THOMAS E. USAF O3 08-Feb-69 LAOS CLARKE FRED L. USAF E6 13-Dec-68 LAOS CLARKE GEORGE W. USAF O3 16-Oct-67 LAOS CLAXTON CHARLES P. USAF O4 29-Dec-67 NVN CLAY EUGENE L. USAF E5 09-Nov-67 LAOS CLEVE REGINALD D. ARMY W1 22-Mar-71 LAOS CLINE CURTIS R. ARMY E2 18-Sep-69 SVN CLINTON DEAN E. ARMY W1 11-Jun-67 SVN/OW COAKLEY WILLIAM F. USN O4 13-Sep-66 NVN COALSTON ECHOL W. JR. ARMY E5 21-Jan-68 SVN COATES DONALD L. USMC E6 01-Feb-66 NVN COBBS RALPH B. USN O4 17-Jun-66 SVN/OW COCHEO RICHARD N. CIV 31-Jan-68 SVN COCHRAN ISOM CARTER JR. ARMY E3 23-May-68 SVN COCHRANE DEVERTON C. ARMY E6 17-Jun-70 CAMB COEN HARRY B. ARMY E3 12-May-68 SVN COFFEE GERALD L. (JERRY)USN O3 03-Feb-66 NVN COHRON JAMES D. ARMY E6 12-Jan-68 LAOS COLE LEGRANDE O. JR USN O3 30-Jun-67 NVN COLE RICHARD M. JR. USAF E6 18-Jun-72 SVN COLEMAN JIMMY L. ARMY E3 06-Mar-69 SVN COLLAMORE ALLAN P. JR. USN O3 04-Feb-67 NVN COLLAZO RAPHAEL C. ARMY E3 17-Mar-68 SVN COLLETTE CURTIS D. USN E5 17-Jun-66 SVN/OW COLLINS RICHARD F. USN O4 22-Nov-69 LAOS COLNE ROGER CIV 31-May-70 CAMB COLTMAN WILLIAM C. USAF O4 29-Sep-72 NVN COLWELL WILLIAM K. USAF E8 24-Dec-65 LAOS COMER HOWARD B. JR. ARMY W2 24-Nov-69 SVN COMPA JOSEPH J. JR. ARMY E6 10-Jun-65 SVN COMPTON FRANK R. USN O3 21-Mar-66 NVN/OW CONAWAY LAWRENCE Y. USAF O5 03-May-70 LAOS CONDIT DOUGLAS C. USAF O2 26-Nov-67 NVN CONDREY GEORGE T. III ARMY W1 08-May-68 SVN CONGER JOHN E. ARMY E3 27-Jan-69 SVN CONKLIN BERNARD USAF O3 29-Jul-66 NVN CONLON JOHN F. USAF O2 04-Mar-66 SVN CONSOLVO JOHN W. USMC O3 07-May-72 SVN CONWAY JAMES B. ARMY O3 12-Apr-66 SVN COOK DONALD G. USMC O3 31-Dec-64 SVN COOK DWIGHT W. USAF O2 21-Sep-72 LAOS COOK JOSEPH F. USMC E3 10-May-68 SVN COOK KELLY F. USAF O5 10-Nov-67 NVN COOK WILLIAM R. USAF O5 28-Apr-68 SVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 47 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 COOK WILMER P. USN O4 22-Dec-67 NVN COOKE CALVIN C. JR. USAF E5 26-Apr-72 SVN COOLEY DAVID L. USN O4 22-Apr-68 NVN COONS CHESTER L. USN E4 17-Feb-68 LAOS COOPER RICHARD W. JR. USAF O3 19-Dec-72 NVN COOPER WILLIAM E. USAF O5 24-Apr-66 NVN COPACK JOSEPH H. JR. USAF O2 22-Dec-72 NVN COPENHAVER GREGORY S. USMC E3 15-May-75 CAMB COPLEY WILLIAM M. ARMY E4 16-Nov-68 LAOS CORDOVA SAM G. USMC O2 26-Aug-72 LAOS CORNELIUS SAMUEL B. USAF O3 16-Jun-73 CAMB CORNWELL LEROY J. III USAF O3 10-Sep-71 LAOS CORONA JOEL ARMY E3 08-Nov-70 SVN COZART ROBERT G. JR. ARMY O3 20-Mar-70 SVN CRADDOCK RANDALL J. USAF O3 21-Dec-72 NVN CRAFTS CHARLES ARMY E2 29-Dec-64 SVN CRAIG PHILLIP C. USN O3 04-Jul-67 NVN CRAIN CARROLL O. USN O4 08-Mar-67 NVN/OW CRAMER DONALD M. ARMY W2 05-Jan-71 SVN/OW CRAVEN ANDREW J. ARMY E3 12-May-68 SVN CREAMER JAMES E. ARMY E5 21-Apr-68 SVN CREAR WILLIS C. ARMY E4 15-Feb-71 LAOS CREED BARTON S. USN O2 13-Mar-71 LAOS CRESSMAN PETER R. USAF E4 05-Feb-73 LAOS CREW JAMES A. USAF O2 10-Nov-67 NVN CRISTMAN FREDERICK L. ARMY W1 19-Mar-71 LAOS CRONE DONALD E. ARMY E4 15-Feb-71 LAOS CROOK ELLIOTT ARMY E4 16-May-71 SVN CROSBY BRUCE A. JR. ARMY E4 30-Mar-72 SVN CROSBY HERBERT C. ARMY O3 10-Oct-70 SVN/OW CROSBY RICHARD A. ARMY E4 02-Dec-67 SVN CROSSMAN GREGORY J. USAF O2 25-Apr-68 NVN CROWLEY JOHN E. ARMY E3 10-Aug-70 LAOS CROWSON FREDERICK H. ARMY E4 02-May-70 CAMB CROXDALE JACK L. II ARMY E4 19-Nov-67 SVN CRUZ CARLOS R. USAF O3 29-Dec-67 LAOS CUDLIKE CHARLES J. ARMY E4 18-May-69 SVN CUNNINGHAM KENNETH ARMY E2 03-Oct-69 SVN CURLEE ROBERT L. JR. ARMY E6 10-Jun-65 SVN CURRAN PARTICK R. USMC O2 29-Sep-69 LAOS CURTIS THOMAS J. USAF O3 20-Sep-65 NVN CUSHMAN CLIFTON E. USAF O3 25-Sep-66 NVN CUTHBERT BRADLEY G. USAF O3 23-Dec-68 NVN CUTHBERT STEPHEN H. USAF O3 03-Jul-72 NVN CZERWIEC RAYMOND G. ARMY E5 27-Mar-69 SVN CZERWONKA PAUL S. USMC E2 10-May-68 SVN DAFFRON THOMAS C. USAF O3 18-Feb-70 LAOS DAHILL DOUGLAS E. ARMY E4 17-Apr-69 SVN DAILEY DOUGLAS V. USAF E5 13-Dec-68 LAOS DALE CHARLES A. ARMY O2 09-Jun-65 SVN DALTON RANDALL D. ARMY E4 24-Jul-71 CAMB DALY JAMES A. JR. ARMY E3 09-Jan-68 SVN DANIELSON BENJAMIN F. USAF O3 05-Dec-69 LAOS DANIELSON MARK G. USAF O3 18-Jun-72 SVN DARCY EDWARD J. USAF E5 29-Dec-67 NVN DARR CHARLES E. USAF O2 21-Dec-72 NVN DAVIDSON DAVID A. ARMY E6 05-Oct-70 LAOS DAVIES JOSEPH E. USAF O3 19-May-68 NVN DAVIS CHARLIE B. USAF O5 22-Apr-70 LAOS NAM VET Newsletter Page 48 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 DAVIS EDGAR F. USAF O3 17-Sep-68 LAOS DAVIS JAMES WOODROW USAF E6 11-Mar-68 LAOS DAVIS RICARDO G. ARMY E7 20-Mar-69 LAOS DAWES JOHN J. ARMY E7 05-May-66 SVN/OW DAWSON DANIEL G. ARMY O2 06-Nov-64 SVN DAWSON FRANK A. USN E3 17-Feb-68 LAOS DAY DENNIS I. ARMY E4 03-Nov-70 SVN DAYAO ROLANDO C. USN E6 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW DAYTON JAMES L. ARMY W1 08-May-68 SVN DE BLASIO RAYMOND V. USN O2 18-Jun-71 NVN/OW DE BRUIN EUGENE H. CIV 05-Sep-63 LAOS DE CAIRE JACK L. ARMY E6 03-Nov-71 SVN DE HERRERA BENJAMIN D. ARMY E3 19-Nov-67 SVN DE SOTO ERNEST L. USAF O4 12-Apr-69 SVN DE WISPELAERE REXFORD J. USAF E4 24-Nov-69 LAOS DEAN CHARLES CIV 10-Sep-74 LAOS DEAN DONALD C. USN E5 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW DEAN MICHAEL F. USAF E5 30-Jun-70 LAOS DEANE WILLIAM L. ARMY O4 08-Jan-73 SVN DEERE DONALD T. ARMY E4 17-May-66 SVN DEICHELMANN SAMUEL M. USAF O3 06-Sep-68 SVN DEITSCH CHARLES E. ARMY W3 20-Oct-68 SVN DELONG JOE L. ARMY E3 18-May-67 SVN DEMMON DAVID S. ARMY E5 09-Jun-65 SVN DEMPSEY JACK I. USN E2 17-Jun-66 SVN/OW DEMSEY WALTER E. JR. ARMY E4 18-Feb-71 LAOS DENGLER DIETER USN O4 01-Feb-66 LAOS DENNANY JAMES E. USAF O4 12-Nov-69 LAOS DENNIS MARK V. USN HM 15-Jul-66 SVN DENNIS WILLIAM R. ARMY E4 19-Apr-68 SVN DENNISON JAMES R. USN O4 01-Jan-68 NVN/OW DENTON MANUEL R. USN E4 08-Oct-63 SVN DEUTER RICHARD C. USN O2 22-Nov-69 LAOS DEXTER BENNIE L. USAF E3 09-May-66 SVN DEXTER RONALD J. ARMY E8 03-Jun-67 LAOS DI TOMMASO ROBERT J. USAF O2 29-Jul-66 NVN DIBBLE MORRIS F. ARMY E3 05-Dec-65 SVN DILGER HERBERT H. USN O3 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW DILLON DAVID A. ARMY E4 20-Jul-66 SVN DIX CRAIG M. ARMY E4 17-Mar-71 CAMB DODGE EDWARD R. ARMY E7 31-Dec-64 SVN DOLAN EDWARD V. CIV 12-Mar-75 SVN DOLAN THOMAS A. ARMY E5 10-Aug-71 SVN DONAHUE MORGAN J. USAF O2 13-Dec-68 LAOS DONATO PAUL N. USN E6 17-Feb-68 LAOS DONNELLY VERNE G. USN O5 17-Sep-72 NVN DONOVAN LEROY M. ARMY E7 19-May-65 SVN DONOVAN MICHAEL L. USAF O3 30-Sep-71 LAOS DOOLEY JAMES E. USN O2 22-Oct-67 NVN DORITY RICHARD C. ARMY E4 03-Nov-70 SVN DOTSON JEFFERSON S. USAF O2 09-Aug-69 LAOS DOUGLAS THOMAS E. USMC E4 22-Nov-65 SVN DRAEGER WALTER F. JR. USAF 03 04-Apr-65 NVN DRIVER CLARENCE N. CIV 07-Mar-73 LAOS DRIVER DALLAS A. ARMY E4 09-Oct-69 SVN DUBBELD ORIE J. JR. ARMY O2 03-Mar-71 SVN DUCAT PHILLIP A. USMC O3 25-Sep-66 SVN DUCKETT THOMAS A. USAF O2 12-Dec-70 LAOS DUFFY JOHN E. USAF O2 04-Apr-70 SVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 49 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 DUGAN THOMAS W. USAF O4 13-Dec-68 LAOS DUGGAN WILLIAM Y. USAF O4 31-Dec-71 LAOS DUKE CHARLES R. CIV 30-May-70 SVN DUNCAN JAMES E. ARMY E7 03-Mar-71 SVN DUNCAN ROBERT R. USN O2 29-Aug-68 NVN DUNLAP WILLIAM C. ARMY W4 02-Dec-69 SVN DUNN JOHN G. ARMY O3 18-Mar-68 SVN DUNN JOSEPH P. USN O2 14-Feb-68 CHINA DUNN MICHAEL E. USN O3 26-Jan-68 NVN DUNN RICHARD E. USAF E6 26-Apr-72 SVN DUSING CHARLES G. USAF E5 31-Oct-65 SVN DYCZKOWSKI ROBERT R. USAF O3 23-Apr-66 NVN DYE MELVIN C. ARMY E5 19-Feb-68 LAOS DYER IRBY III ARMY E5 02-Dec-66 LAOS EADS DENNIS K. ARMY W1 23-Apr-70 SVN EARLE JOHN S. USN O3 22-Jun-70 SVN/OW EATON NORMAN D. USAF O5 13-Jan-69 LAOS EBY ROBERT G. CIV 21-Aug-67 SVN/OW ECHANIS JOSEPH USAF O3 05-Nov-69 LAOS ECHEVARRIA RAYMOND L. ARMY E8 03-Oct-66 LAOS ECKLEY WAYNE A. USAF E5 29-Dec-67 NVN ECKLUND ARTHUR G. ARMY O2 03-Apr-69 SVN EDMONDSON WILLIAM R. USAF O2 31-May-66 NVN EDWARDS HARRY J. ARMY E4 20-Jan-72 SVN EGAN JAMES T. JR. USMC O2 21-Jan-66 SVN EIDSMOE NORMAN E. USN O4 26-Jan-68 NVN EILERS DENNIS L. USAF O3 24-Dec-65 LAOS EISENBERGER GEORGE J. ARMY E5 05-Dec-65 SVN EISENBRAUN WILLIAM F. ARMY O3 05-Jul-65 SVN ELLEN WADE L. ARMY W1 24-Apr-72 SVN ELLERD CARL J. USN E5 02-Oct-69 NVN/OW ELLIOT ROBERT M. USAF O3 14-Feb-68 NVN ELLIOTT ANDREW J. ARMY W2 09-Jun-70 SVN ELLIOTT JERRY W. ARMY E2 21-Jan-68 SVN ELLIS BILLY J. ARMY E4 03-Jan-68 SVN ELLIS RANDALL S. ARMY E4 18-Apr-69 SVN ELLIS WILLIAM ARMY E3 24-Jun-66 SVN ELLISON JOHN C. USN O4 24-Mar-67 NVN ELZINGA RICHARD G. USAF O3 26-Mar-70 LAOS ENGLANDER LAWRENCE J. ARMY E5 02-May-68 SVN ENTRICAN DANNY D. ARMY O2 18-May-71 SVN ERSKINE JACK D. CIV 13-Nov-68 SVN ESPENSHIELD JOHN L. USAF O4 21-Oct-69 SVN ESTOCIN MICHAEL J. USN O4 26-Apr-67 NVN EVANCHO RICHARD USMC E3 26-Mar-68 SVN/OW EVANS BILLY K. JR. ARMY E5 05-Dec-68 SVN EVANS CLEVELAND JR. USMC E5 13-Mar-68 SVN EVANS WILLIAM A. ARMY E5 02-Mar-69 CAMB EVELAND MICKEY E. ARMY E4 26-Oct-71 SVN/OW EVERT LAWRENCE G. USAF O3 08-Nov-67 NVN NAM VET Newsletter Page 50 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Memorial's effect is profound Input by: Ray "Frenchy" Moreau Herndon Byte eXchange - Herndon, VA (703) 471-8010 From "The Dallas Morning News" Friday, November 10, 1989, pg. 27A by Arnold Isaacs. Arnold R. Isaacs, a correspondent in Vietnam from 1972 to 1975, is the author of Without Honor: Defeat in Vietnam and Cambodia. He teaches history of the war at Towson State University in Maryland. The Wall -------- The Vietnam Veterans Memorial is seven years old this Veteran's Day. In that relatively short time, the polished black wall with its rows and rows of names has secured a special place in America's consciousness. More than 25 million visitors have gone there since the wall was dedicated. Some went to grieve for all of the 58,156 names inscribed on it. Others went to mourn not the abstraction of a nation's loss but for one particular name, representing a specific and unique loss of their own. Over the years, along with such traditional mourning symbols as flowers or candles, visitors have frequently left letters or other remembrances at the wall, trying to tell the dead that they are still missed, honored, remembered and loved. These messages, all of which are collected and saved by the National Park Service, express grief in many different ways but share a common bewilderment and terrible pain at the loss of young lives in an ambiguous and unsuccessful war. They also document, sometimes with astounding force, the emotions that can be released by the wall itself. One mother, in a letter that must also represent the experience of many others, wrote to her dead son: "We had been looking for about half an hour when your father quietly said, 'Honey, here it is.' As I looked to where his hand was touching the black wall, I say your name, William R. Stocks. My heart seemed to stop. I felt as though I couldn't breathe. It was like a bad dream. My teeth chattered. I felt as though I were freezing. God, how it hurt. I looked around at all the people up and down this black wall, this memorial to all those men and women who had lost their lives in Vietnam, these thousands and thousands of names. I reached for your father's hands. They were ice cold. His face was pale. He looked at this black wall and then at me and said, 'What a waste. All these men and women dead, and for what? For fighting a war they had no way of winning.'" If there is hurt at the wall, though, there is also healing. That mother, interviewed by the writer Laura Palmer for her 1987 book "Shrapnel in the Heart, explained: "As I see Bill's name, with all the others, it helps me to know I'm not alone in my pain... When I touch his name, my pain momentarily increases, if you know what I mean, yet it decreases. So what am I trying to say? On this black wall, there is much pain, yet there is much NAM VET Newsletter Page 51 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 love." As well as parents, children, wives, sisters and brothers, mourners at the wall include surviving veterans come to express regret and respect to their fellow soldiers, In the veterans' messages, along with sorrow, there is often an edge of continuing bitterness at the indifference with which the nation responded, for many years, to their experience. "You can tell which are the vets," one wrote. "We are the ones who don't have to ask about the size or type of material used to make the wall. We just stand and look, not caring who sees us cry, just like no one cared who died." As powerful as it is, though, the wall does not represent the whole tragedy of Vietnam, or even the greater part. There is no reminder here to tell us that if Vietnam ever erected a similar memorial, with the names of its dead on both sides inscribed in the same size letters, its wall would not stretch 493 1/2 feet, like the one in Washington, but 25 or 30 times as far: two to three miles long. If the victims in Cambodia and Laos were inscribed as well, that would add perhaps as many names again. Five or six miles of names, altogether - that would be the true measure of the war's suffering and loss. It's natural, of course, for Americans to remember and mourn chiefly our own dead. But perhaps a small acknowledgement of that greater toll wouldn't be out of place; a small sign, off to one side of the memorial, reminding us that not only Americans died. For if we fail to learn that ours is not the only pain to be remembered, the true meaning of Vietnam and its war will continue to escape our understanding. NAM VET Newsletter Page 52 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 "Wall doesn't honor veterans who killed selves after war" Input by: Joyce Flory NAM VETs Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM (505) 523-2811 This is a reprint from The El Paso Times,Sunday 12-31-89 (copied without permission). By Laura Palmer, New York columnist who writes about Vietnam veterans. "This was the decade the United States finally honored the men and women who served in Vietnam. The dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington D.C., in 1982 was a turning point. Engraved in black granite panels are the names of 58,175 U.S. citizens who went to Vietnam and never came home. In dedicating the memorial, we as a nation, were at last able to embrace our own and say: "They were ours. This is what we really lost in Vietnam." An era of healing had begun. But before this decade fades to black, pause for a moment and remember the veterans no one heeds, the ones who committed suicide after the war. In a study published two years ago, the New England Journal of Medicine estimated as many as 59,000 Vietnam veterans may have killed themselves after coming back. "If we put the names of all that have died since we came home on the wall, tragically, we could walk through a canyon down there." says Steve Bentley, 42, who served with the Army in Vietnam from 1967 to '69. Bentley runs the Veterans Employment and Training Services program in Portland, Maine. "In the last year here, we've had at least a half a dozen (suicides). I don't know how many good friends I've had go that way since I got home. I know what killed them was unfinished business from Vietnam they never got away from, but the death certificate won't say that." Bentley, who holds a master's degree in rehabilitation counseling and lectures frequently on post-traumatic stress disorder, attempted suicide himself several times. "I slashed my wrists, I overdosed on Quaaludes once, I was hellbent for it. I remember a couple of times making up my mind I was going to do it but I couldn't locate a shotgun quick enough." Bentley, who no longer drinks or takes drugs, says his trauma after the war was survivor's guilt, which still affects him. But he also says that rarely, just the war is to blame. "We all had childhoods and a lot of those childhoods were traumatic. If you grew up in the ghetto, or if your father was an alcoholic, or you were traumatized at an early age, and I had lots of that, it means you're more susceptible to the kind of trauma Vietnam was." Unresolved trauma, lathered in alcohol and drugs, is combustible, and suicides are often the explosive result. John Paul Kolosowski was one of those casualties. Born in New York, Kolosowski was orphaned and joined the Marines when he was 18. In Vietnam, because of his small size, he became a tunnel rat. His job was to slither through the mazes of communist tunnels hunting for enemy soldiers. In those years after Vietnam, Kolosowski became one of the estimated 110,000 homeless Vietnam veterans. Whiskey became his NAM VET Newsletter Page 53 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 next-of-kin, and he died curled up like a baby in a field in Houston. Bentley says: "I'm not one to say anything is just Vietnam. It's the weight of all that stuff together. We know you don't have to go to Vietnam to have the booze take you out. But it's the booze that kept them from listening to anyone trying to help."" NAM VET Newsletter Page 54 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= T h e C h a p l a i n A t N a m V e t ================================================================= The Bell Tolls by: Rev. Ed Brant NAM VETs Protestant Chaplain The Landing Zone - Fall Creek, OR (503) 747-9809 I am the leader in a group known as "Point Man International Ministries of Lane County" Oregon. My name is not important, but what is important is that I served in Vietnam and have dealt rather heavily with what is called PTSD or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Many of my fellow Veterans have felt the same thing, namely, a malady of living in the present. I am also a Baptist Minister and have found that the Lord has given me, personally, that which the VA has said is not possible. That is, the ability to live and function in the present, without medicines or ongoing counseling. A healing, if you please. No, the painful memories are still there. I discovered this at a meeting of our local Point Man when I told the story of my second trip to Vietnam... to evacuate Saigon, and to recover the ship which had been taken captive, the Mayguyez. In the process, we picked up the boat people as they were fleeing their country. One of the most touching things I have ever seen happened late that first night as we moved out to sea immediately after the evacuation. I was on the USS Blue Ridge and witnessed the first of many boat families to come aboard. The little boy, perhaps 5 or 6 years old, came walking proudly up the ramp at the tail of the ship into the cavern of its well deck, a big bay inside the ship. He was carrying his sister, perhaps a year old. Next came Mama. She looked absolutely haggard, bone tired, and scared. Papa came last. He was bent from much care and also appeared very worn out, beyond fear, and dejected. By their dress, I would guess that they had been living at a higher standard than many of their countrymen. He clutched close a very small bag in which he carried all their worldly possessions. He was a small man who had fled for his life with his family and brought with them almost nothing in their haste to be away. There were more, perhaps twenty in that small rowboat, miles out at sea, but that sight put a scar on my heart and mind like nothing else had in my first thirteen months in that country, during and right after the Tet Offensive of 1969. (After the first tour, I came back to the States and promptly put solid walls up around my feelings about everything, and lost my first wife and family.) That night as the first of the many boat people walked up the ramp to the watching stares of ship's company, the first of many boat people that we would pick up from the waves of the sea, I had to leave the bay because in no way would I want my men to see the sudden onslaught of the tears in my eyes. Compassion? I don't know. Maybe it was just the frustration of putting in my time there, only to return and see the end of all that we had fought for and died for. At any rate, to this day I can't tell the complete story without breaking down and weeping. So I, and many like me, went for years without once saying the NAM VET Newsletter Page 55 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 word "Vietnam". If the subject came up at all I'd just leave the room. When I retired two years ago, I was told that only about 5000 Vietnam veterans were still on active duty in the Marine corps. This created problems, because as we fell out for inspections, etc., only one or two people had any amount of ribbons, personal awards, and unit awards relating to Vietnam, and the young troops would always ask questions... "What was it like? How many did you kill? What is that ribbon for?" and on and on. My reaction was to say nothing at all and walk away, or if pestered, just to say I didn't want to talk about it. I began to have a memory loss, and an anger that was not welcome began to manifest itself in me at people, places, and things. A coldness of attitude touched my relationships, and a depression began to set in. I began to have a bad recurring dream of a certain time, place and action that happened long ago on a lonely hilltop in Vietnam. Why was this building up, affecting the friendships, the relationships, the work in the job I was doing at the time. What was happening? I certainly didn't think anything was exceptionally wrong. But my friends did. Well, in POINT MAN I have found other veterans who share similar difficulties. I can talk to them, and they to me, because they understand. They cry, too, internally, if not, externally. And we've discovered that these damaged emotions can result in unacceptable behavior patterns in our society. The statistics are alarming. Over 100,000 of us are in jail, and 200,000 are on parole; we possess a divorce rate that is double the national average, and many of us seem unable to hold a job for any length of time. The unemployment rate of the Vietnam veteran is two times the national average. One of every four of us earns less than $7000 a year. 79% of all fatal single car accidents is a veteran of Vietnam. The suicide rate is 33% higher than our national average, and 68% higher than our peer group. The statistics say that over 800,000 Viet Vets suffer from PTSD. The symptoms are many, and are similar to the symptoms of many stressful lifestyles. Here are some of them: depression, anger, lack of sleep, flashbacks, or nightmares, emotional coolness, or an apparent lack of emotion, a loss of interest in the everyday affairs of life, distrust of authority, hyperalertness, suicidal feelings, and avoidance of anything that might "key" their memories to their past in Vietnam. Unlike those who have stress as a result of a job or lifestyle, our stress doesn't go away with medicines and counseling, although those things most certainly are a help. In our group, we know that we can trust each other, and we can talk and share our feelings freely. Our preacher may not understand, our wives and families may not understand, and certainly our friends who weren't there cannot possibly know what it is to feel a bottled up grief and guilt come bubbling to the surface years after the fact. Grief and guilt are two of the problems we constantly deal with. It's an accepted fact that in the heat of battle one does not have time to grieve over the death of a close friend. Years later we may begin to wonder "Why him? Why not me?" and depression sets in. When my fellow veterans put their arms around me, slap me on the back, and I see the anguish NAM VET Newsletter Page 56 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 in their eyes, I know that they understand and accept me just the way I am. They may not agree with my lifestyle, or my attitude, but they accept me just the same with no reservation because they are there or they've been there too. That's something that helps to heal me of the symptoms of PTSD. We are a ministry, and as such, we have found that James 5:16 is very true. It says "Confess your faults (PTSD symptoms?) one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed." It's sort of like taking your pack off after 20 years. A great relief (1) that you're not alone, and (2) you have an improved outlook, or perhaps just the ability to work all day without getting mad at the boss and quitting. At our meetings, we don't hold out condemnation just because a man, or woman is different, in attitude, in belief, in dogma, or in lifestyle. We know what is felt, what it is to fear, to be frustrated, to feel alone. We know what counseling is, and had been, what medicines have been given to "calm" us. We, who are POINTMEN, unabashedly say that the secular world has applied a bandage, and a very good one, in some cases. The trouble is that when the medicine ends, the nightmare comes back. When the counseling is all said and done, the memory returns. The bandage falls off, disabling us to the communities around about us. On the other hand, we have found that the Bible offers counsel on how to live in spite of the memories. We go about life without feeling incapacitated if we adhere to its instruction. It is my fondest hope that we who have fought in Vietnam, and those who didn't but supported us, will find the peace we've searched long and hard for, and our rightful place in society. For a subscription to the "Reveille", our newspaper of POINT MAN INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES, a veteran need only write to: PO Box 440, Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043 requesting the paper. In it they will find a listing of each Outpost, its location, a local phone number, and a name to contact for information on how POINT MAN can help. For those of our population who don't know what a point man is, let me give a brief definition: a point man was a person who walked 15 to 20 meters ahead of the squad, or patrol in a combat environment. His job was simply to be the eyes, ears, and smell of the men following. He was to alert them to enemy ambushes, booby traps, mines, and anything that would endanger the lives of those following. The point man often died. In POINT MAN MINISTRIES, we want to be the point man for the veteran who needs deliverance from the effects of PTSD. As an aside, the point man had a counterpart sometimes known as Tail End Charlie. This one followed behind just far enough back to keep the last man in sight. If the patrol walked through an ambush, or if the enemy was closing in behind them, his job was to give the warning. He often didn't live long either. I have a favorite scripture for those who would like to see what a REAL point man is. It's Isaiah 52:11, 12. This is the first of a series. Next month we'll talk about anger, NAM VET Newsletter Page 57 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 it's causes, the impact on the Veteran and how to deal with it. Meanwhile, time at the year's beginning is at a premium, and this paper, done some time ago, will have to do. Copy, share, use it to introduce Our problems to those who don't know. In the meanwhile, fellow veteran, "Keep in the battle" because there IS victory at the end! Rev. 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XXXX XXXXX / |`. : : . .__________ XXXX XXXXX / ~ ~ ||.` ` : || \ / XXXX XXXXX / WRITE OR VISIT AN INCARCERATED VETERAN SOON ! XXXX XXXXX / ~ || . .'. / / XXXX XXXXX/ ~ ~ ~|| ||/ / XXXX XXXXX ~ ~ ~ || || / XXXX XXXXX || || / XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX \_________XXXXX________|| XgjpX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX NAM VET Newsletter Page 60 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= T h e y ' v e a s p e c i a l p a r t ================================================================= Vietnam Nurses These Are the Women Who Went to War by Myra Macpherson In: LONG TIME PASSING VIETNAM AND THE HAUNTED GENERATION Input by: G. Joseph Peck NAM VETs Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 (1984 Note: Myra MacPherson has written for the late Washington "Star" and the New York "Times." She is now a political correspondent for the style section of the Washington "Post" and author of "The Power Lovers" (Putnam's).) The Stars and Stripes office, not far from the United States Capitol, was a sweat house of camaraderie on a rainy night in November, 1982. Finally, a long decade after Vietnam veterans came home, there was a national reunion. The media, from across the country and around the world, recorded a week of tears and laughter among former comrades in arms; men in fatigues and ponytails mingling with those in three-piece suits. THE STARS AND STRIPES, the national veterans' newspaper, was throwing one of the best parties. Sixties rock and country music blared in the cavernous old warehouse. The line was six deep at beer kegs. A crowd stood outside, unmindful of misting rains, telling war stories into the night. Saralee McGoran came to the reunion. She was looking for men she did not know. She knew no faces. She knew no names. She never did. They came and went too fast through the "meat factory" when she was on duty as an operating nurse in an evacuation hospital. But they had haunted her for years. And so she went to the Sheraton Hotel reunion suite of the Army 25th Division and wrote her name in their book: Saralee McGoran, nurse, 12th eva, Cu Chi. She was trying to complete the circle. She starts to tell her Vietnam story. "If I can get through it." McGoran is a tiny, intense woman with curly graying hair, barely five feet two, who was 26 when she went to Vietnam. The horrors of booby-trap wounds are recalled. "A lot of times they would come in with nothing from here down," McGoran says, touching herself in mid-pelvis, above the crotch. "The doctors and nurses would just cry and look at each other. We didn't know whether to work on them or not. I couldn't bear to look at their faces. One guy couldn't have been more than 17. He had red hair... he was just blown apart. We were putting guys back together the best we could. "About three or four days later, I walked into this long Quonset hut and I saw this stretcher and a white sheet. All I could see under the sheet was this little bump. I walked close enough -- to see the red hair. He would LIVE." A little bump under a white sheet. She was plagued by a terrible, impotent rage and helplessness many nurses felt in a war that had so perfected its medevac operations that the bloodiest no longer died on the field NAM VET Newsletter Page 61 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 of battle. They were brought to the operating table only to survive with a half life or to die crying for the assurance that they would live. There were more amputees from Vietnam than any other war; Max Cleland, President Carter's Veterans Administration chief, who lost both legs and one arm, has said, "If I had been in World War II, I'd have died." Some amputees, like Cleland, learned eventually to find joy in being alive, but nurses, caught in the endless stream of mangled and severed bodies in an evacuation hospital, were never to know their fate. For years, McGoran was plagued with thoughts of what happened to that 17-year-old. Whether he was one of the many disabled veteran suicides. There was the terrible uncertainty of whether they should have left him to die. She admits to being in "some kind of shock" when she arrived in the States in January of 1968. "I hardly remember how I cam back." Like so many Vietnam returnees, McGoran felt an alien displacement, like the medic who once told me he somehow felt "safer" in Vietnam than at home. "I felt totally alone," continues McGoran. "Everything was a blank. I'd been home a day and a half in Los Angeles when a siren sounded and I went right to the bottom of the car. We had been shelled a lot." McGoran returned to college in California for her bachelor's degree. Hers is the universal story of veterans in college who were made to feel outcasts. "I was the ENEMY. I didn't tell ANYONE I was a Vietnam veteran." But her mind would not leave Vietnam. "I went to two therapists and neither was able to help me. About that time I had my flashback. One day on the freeway, I saw an Army truck in front of me. I locked in, and I 'saw' bleeding bodies. I almost crashed. There was a recurring nightmare. "In my dream there was a hospital on one side - and a nightclub on the other. All these beds, just FULL of bodies, five or six in a bed, and they all had these bleeding eyes. You know how eyes bleed in death? And on the other side - everyone was partying. And that's how it WAS. Every day, there would be broken bodies and pain - and on the other hand the way we coped, not to FEEL, was to drink beer and have a party." It was echoes of "M*A*S*H." "I did it so well, I cut off all my feelings." A year later, in college, "I couldn't relate to the guys burning draft cards. COULDN'T RELATE TO ANOTHER WOMAN ON CAMPUS. All they wanted were short little answers. I couldn't give the short answers. I feel they may have been the smart ones. They saw what we couldn't see." Perhaps it was inevitable, but McGoran married a Vietnam veteran. They have two children, and both have eye problems. Like many Vietnam veteran parents, when there are abnormalities in their children and no family history of problems, there is always that wonder. "At first I never thought of Agent Orange - but they were spraying it where I was." McGoran's salvation from her deep depression and crying spells was a women veterans' rap group. "I was afraid to go, but glad later. We told our stories - it help me understand." And finally, McGoran was at the Vietnam veterans' reunion for another bit of understanding, another bit of closure on life that was Vietnam. "I HAD to know what the men felt about what we did." "In the Twenty-fifth Division reunion suite everyone was coming up and saying thank you. FOR FOURTEEN YEARS, I NEEDED TO KNOW THAT. I went to the memorial today and all I could do was go from NAM VET Newsletter Page 62 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 panel to panel and cry for the ones I didn't know. I never knew their names." A veteran came up. "I got hit hard by a mortar round in '67. A little nurse, she held my hand and cried all the way to the O.R. with me. Kept saying, 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.' I know she saved my life. A swell bunch of gals. They did a better job than anybody. Worked twice as hard as the doctors.." McGoran interjects: "The doctors were drafted. Didn't want to be there. We volunteered." Why? "I was single, there was a war and American boys were in it, and they needed American nurses." The veteran can't stop praising "the girls." He has his hand on her shoulder. "They were shelled and everything. A little girl, no bigger than you are, pulled me out of bed during mortar rounds, so I wouldn't get hurt." The hulking veteran leans down. The circle was slowly being closed. "Thanks a lot, little lady." He gives her a hug, and they rock back and forth, holding on to each other, holding on to a memory, lost in a time and place of long ago. Lynda Van Devanter tells her story with the flair of an actress now. Since 1980, when she became a national VA spokeswoman for Vietnam women veterans, Van Devanter has told it on television shows and in Congressional hearings and for journalists. To those who have heard it often, there is a staginess to the tremble, the tears, the melodramatic catch in her voice. And yet for years it was not this way. Buried deeply, locked away were her memories of Vietnam. From 1969 to 1970, Van Devanter was an operating room nurse in Pleiku. Years later, she sought psychiatric help. She never dreamed of mentioning Vietnam as any cause of emotional problems. That, she thought, would be "overdramatizing. Vietnam was years ago. It must just be me." Today, she recalls that in those "closet veteran" years, "I had a recurring nightmare that scared the absolute sh*t out of me. There are tons and tons of black, napalm-burned skin about to crash down on me. The dream always starts with this 'plop, plop, plop,' and I always think it is rain. And then I look up and everything over me is covered with black, bloody, STINKING - I can still smell it - burned flesh. And it's all coming down and I think I'm going to drown in it. I would wake up screaming and realized I'd better get into therapy real fast - but I'd sure better not tell him about THIS because he might think I'm crazy, might commit me." Her real stories were hardly different from the nightmares. "Napalm burn just reeks - REEKS. If you try to brush napalm off, it continues to roll down, it just oozes fire along the skin. Burning-flesh smells are so beyond description. Add to that the smell of napalm, a petroleum distillate, AND the infection, which happens with really bad burns, the infection gives off a very distinct odor, a little bit like a sewer. The combination of these three smells you will NEVER EVER lose the memory of." Another memory, so a part of Van Devanter now that it is told by rote, in present tense, is the death of one young man. "It is the largest trail of blood leading to the table that I have ever seen. I slip in it because my eyes are drawn to the gurney. As they move him to the operating table, I watch in horror as the lower portion of his jaw, teeth exposed, dangles from what is left of his face." She chokes. "I have to catch myself to keep from getting sick. He is drowning in blood. I grab a tray of instruments. For the sake of speed, we perform the tracheotomy without donning gloves.... The surgeon grabs instruments from the tray to clamp off the largest bleeders in the face and jaw. The NAM VET Newsletter Page 63 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 soldier is bleeding so fact that it is necessary to start four large needles in his leg, neck, and both arms and pump blood into all of them simultaneously." For several hours Van Devanter does this, moving around the body, continuously pumping blood into those four large needles. "During one of my circuits around the table, I kick his clothes to one side, to get them out of the way, and a snapshot falls out of the pocket of his fatigues." It is a picture of the soldier and his girl - dressed for a prom. He is straight, blond, and tall in his tuxedo. She has shining dark hair and is wearing a long pastel gown. The tears come to Van Devanter again. "Love for him shines in her eyes." For months, Van Devanter had tried to feel as little as possible. "There had been that veneer of unreality. Suddenly, now, he was REAL to me. "Finally, after six hours of surgery, the surgeon decided it was hopeless. He packed his head in pressure dressings and sent him to the post-op intensive care unit to die. After making the room ready for the next casualty, I walked over to post-op ICU to see him. His bandages had become saturated with blood several times over, and the nurses reinforced them with more rolls of bandages, and now his head was grotesquely large under the swath of white." Still, the red stains seeped through. Van Devanter held his hand and asked if he was in pain. He squeezed her hand weakly. Van Devanter called for pain medication. "I held his hand until the life just literally drained out of him. He literally bled to death..." Van Devanter's quest today is to find the thousands of nurses who came back from Vietnam with their own troubled memories, only to receive the same hostility and indifference she and many others found. These women are truly the forgotten Vietnam veterans nobody knows. And, like male veterans, they have diverse feelings about the war. Last year Van Devanter wrote the first account of the war by a woman veteran, HOME BEFORE MORNING (Warner). The autobiography sparked an emotional debate among nurses who said she exaggerated and distorted conditions to bolster her antimilitary political views. But her descriptions of Vietnam are substantiated by other women veterans, and one reader, William Baffa, wrote a letter representative of most. "I read with horror the article about the young soldier who bled to death of head wounds... the tiny children with arms and legs blown off... the pregnant woman and her child who entered the world with a gunshot wound in his belly. IT RUINED MY DAY! My hope is that it ruined the day for many readers... Can anything short of ridding our civilization of the periodical insanity of war really honor the sacrifices that countless millions have made to do what remains a "to-be- continued" cause? How long can we continue to demand this devastating sacrifice of the young and innocent?" "What haunts me," says Van Devanter, "is that nobody knows of the contribution of these women. The major legacy study of Vietnam veterans does not include ONE woman. The mother of the boy who lost his face has no idea that somebody was standing and holding her son's hand. Even the ones who were triaged out, the 'expectant ones,' were not just shunted over to a corner. Somebody would always go and take their hand and speak to them quietly, just in case they COULD hear. The people of this country have no concept of that. Their sons might have died in vain for a cause that was horrendous - but they didn't die alone." NAM VET Newsletter Page 64 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 One of the few research papers on Vietnam nurses is sobering. Eighty-nine Vietnam veteran nurses were asked to complete an exhaustive survey in 1982. An astounding 97 percent complied. Approximately one third of post-traumatic stress symptoms were identified by 25 percent or more of them as PRESENTLY occurring between 10 and 30 times a month. Some 27.6 percent reported having suicidal thoughts between one and nine times a month; 19.2 percent reported feeling depressed between 15 and 30 times a month; 16.1 percent reported feeling an inability to be close to someone they care about between 15 to 30 times a month. And 70 percent of those who reported having experienced stress symptoms stated that those symptoms are still present today. So little is known about the nurses of Vietnam that there are not even accurate statistics on how many were there. Official guesstimates ranges anywhere from 7,500 to 55,000. So it is not surprising that as vets they often feel invisible. "Although animal studies show that females are more susceptible to the reproductive side effects of dioxin, not one female has been included in Agent Orange studies," says Van Devanter." (In February (1984), Congressman March Kaptur (D-Ohio) was joined by more than 100 members of Congress in urging the Veterans Administration to include female Vietnam veterans in Centers for Disease Control epidemiological studies on the effects of Agent Orange on humans. The group also called on the VA to conduct a birth-defect study with the children of women Vietnam veterans. Congresswoman Kaptur is a member of the House Veterans Affairs Committee. --Editors of Ma.) In each town I visited I've made a point of calling the VA hospital and stating clearly that I am a service-connected veteran of Vietnam and I require gynecological care. I was told by nearly every location that they did not have a gyn clinic or a gyn physician." The response of the VA is that since women comprise such a small number of veterans it would not be feasible to provide such services - but that the women were entitled to receive government paid service with a private gynecologist. Yet, Van Devanter claims, "in no case save one was I told that I was entitled to receive that care by contract service with a private physician - and that was only because I pushed it." That was in 1981. Two years later, in March, 1983, for the first time there was finally a General Accounting Office report and a Congressional hearing that indicted the VA for its lack of services and outreach for women. Countless nurses did not know they had been entitled to GI education benefits. Unfortunately for most, the 10-year time period for qualification after leaving the service had expired. Van Devanter and other Vietnam nurses still bristle at the image of nurses in Vietnam. "To many in the States, I was either a lesbian or a hooker. The 'did you have a good time, honey?' sneers." Later, Van Devanter found out that even World War II nurses had experienced similar reactions. World War II movies portrayed them as bravely waiting for their gallant lovers to return, with intermittent forays to the operating table. Or they were given saintly roles - epitomized in one movie where Veronica Lake walks towards a nest of hated Japs, a grenade inside her blouse, a sacrificial kamikaze blond beauty would save the rest of the hospital. In actuality, World War II's massive mobilization brought 350,000 women into the service as well as many others who served NAM VET Newsletter Page 65 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 in quasi-military support units such as the Women's Airforce Service Pilots (WASP) whose 800 women pilots ferried war planes around the world. Women drove trucks, changed tires, repaired planes, rigged parachutes, were gunnery instructors, air traffic controllers, naval air navigators, and nurses. The first Women's Army Corps (WAC) unit landed in Normandy 38 days after D-day. And 65 women were taken captive as POWs on Corregidor. Nurses were on the beachhead at Anzio. Studies of World War II women in service showed that they developed psychological disorders less frequently than men, their venereal rate was negligible, and their disciplinary rates were much lower. During Korea, and then again, during Vietnam, the unpopularity of the wars brought far fewer women into the military. In all wars, women have been killed, maimed, disabled, and injured psychologically. No Vietnam nurses argue that they have a corner on this. However, Vietnam had its special characteristics. Nurses often suffered a more severe emotional mauling than soldiers who had respites from combat. They saw waves of the mutilated fresh from the battlefield, who in previous wars would never have been saved that long. Many nurses tended to overinvest emotionally in their patients, even when their chances of living were poor. One, who worked in hospitals in Da Nang and Long Binh, recalls that on a 7 P.M. to 7 A.M. shift, two nurses and two medics would take care of 78 men. Exhaustion and trying to build a wall around their emotions led to deep depressions for many. "People don't want to hear about the blood and guts," said Cissy Shellabarger, "but that's all I know about. The grief. It was the first time I've ever been that frightened." In the emergency room of an evacuation hospital in Cu Chi she worked around the clock during the Tet Offensive of 1968. Many Vietnam nurses still recall how affected they were by working on men so young, in this teenage war, where the average age was 19. "I've never seen so many wounded in my life. It reminded me of that scene in 'Gone with the Wind' where all the wounded are lined up for miles around the railroad station," says Shellabarger. "And the rumors were so bad - that Saigon had fallen, things like that... Not knowing the truth was the worst." There are eight nurses' names on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, but that small number of dead does not represent the daily fear of death or injury. There were no front lines and few rear areas. Although the antiwar movement made much of American pilots bombing North Vietnam hospitals, enemy mortar rocket attacks on U.S. hospitals were by and large overlooked in the States and formed no part of antiwar rhetoric. For nurses, mortar attacks meant the nightmare of trying to get the wounded under cots, of working in horrifying condition, of not knowing if they would be hit. "Oftentimes, they would bomb the hospitals intentionally," said Van Devanter, "trying to kill a high-ranking POW who had been taken, who was injured and in the hospital. You knew if you had any officer in the North Vietnamese Army over the rank of major, you could COUNT on rocket attacks all night long." Many of the women went because they believed in their government, believed in a Florence Nightingale role, or for adventure, for the sense of helping. Many seem to have been Roman Catholics trained to believe in authority. "If our government said we were helping to stop Communism," said one, "who were we to NAM VET Newsletter Page 66 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 question?" Many returned pacifists, others upheld the view that the war was right but that the toll was terrible. A rather typical reaction was that of a nurse who cannot recall whether she was for or against the war when she went. "I just wanted to go and nurse." After her second day in the emergency room "you look at one more of those boys and you knew we were in the wrong place." NAM VET Newsletter Page 67 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= O f p a r t i c u l a r i n t e r e s t ================================================================= DANGER OF LOSING THE SPIRIT OF GENEROSITY AND HEALING Women's Memorials and Other New Memorials on the Mall Statement by John Wheeler House Subcommittee on National Parks and Public Lands November 14, 1989 Input by: Ray "Frenchy" Moreau Berndon Byte eXchange - Herndon, VA (703) 471-8010 ---------------------------------- NOTICE Your input is NEEDED concerning this statement. Our thanks to John "Jack" Wheeler in making his statement "public" for all of us to comment. Please address your comments in the VIETNAM_VET mail section to JACK WHEELER. ---------------------------------- Chairman Vento and members of the Subcommittee: Today's hearing regards the petition by the Vietnam Womens Memorial Project to commemorate the service of women in Vietnam by placing a memorial work -- not necessarily a statue -- in the area of the Mall in Washington, D.C. I support the women's petition and I support you, Mr. Chairman, in advancing this legislation. I also thank you for the several years of work that you, the Subcommittee and your staff, particularly Heather Huyck, have put into bringing this issue before the public and making such progress. My concern is that the rhetoric being used to advance the cause of the women has gotten simplified and heated up so that the spirit that animated the Vietnam Veterans Memorial and the Lincoln Memorial -- a spirit of generosity and healing -- is being lost. The danger is that the public, including children, will get the wrong message about what these memorials mean and that people, notably groups seeking to honor blacks and Martin Luther King, Jr. will find their efforts unnecessarily complicated. All people involved in these efforts are well motivated, so that I think framing these issues and noting them in the Record today will suffice to help us all focus on the true roots of the good that these memorials can do, and to forego the hot rhetoric that breaks down unity, halts reconciliation, misleads our kids and appears as selfishness and self-concern, rather than concern for others. By way of introduction, I chaired the construction of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Mall and have assisted in constructing some twenty other Vietnam Veterans Memorials, most recently the Texas State Vietnam Veterans Memorial opened by the President last NAM VET Newsletter Page 68 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Saturday in Dallas. LOSS OF SPIRIT OF GENEROSITY To make something happen in Washington, D.C., forceful language is often necessary, in order to animate people and get attention. Still, there is a danger in the language that has been used to support the women's petition. Over Veterans Day weekend, Dana Delaney, the television actress who portrays an Army nurse in Vietnam, wrote about the nurses that "America has never thanked them for their selfless contributions" and that "The Vietnam Veterans Memorial has begun an essential healing process for male Vietnam veterans, but little has been done to address the needs of women veterans." General Wilma Vaught, a retired Air Force brigadier general, said in support of the new Women in Military Service Memorial and the Vietnam Womens Memorial Project, "Goodness knows there are enough statues of men on horseback to go around." These quotes appear in USA Today of November 10, 1989, op-ed page and news pages. The problem that could emerge here is one of "We're here to get ours!" and "Later for other people, Buster!" This is not edifying for children who grow up with the debate buzzing around. The attitude, if it fully emerges, can indirectly but adversely affect the artists who come up with designs, so that designs that unify the Mall and unify people are not created, and instead designs that isolate spots in the Mall area are created, designs that unfortunately say "Me, me!" This risk applies to all who create memorials, especially in the nation's capital. The issue of generosity of spirit is vital, since great memorials can do so much good in being an example for kids and adults, too. The language used by Dana Delaney and General Vaught put existing memorials in a harsh light -- a sound rhetorical technique. It also focusses the purpose of the women's petition here today as being mainly for the sake of the living women vets themselves. But slamming fellow veterans, including dead ones, is unnecessary. And the reason I have long advocated the women's petition is because the representation of a woman near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial would be very helpful for the 1,000,000 young girls, 12 or younger, who visit the Vietnam Memorial each year. I have watched kids at the Memorial for seven years now; little boys relate to it and its symbolism quite easily -- especially at the statue. Girls do not. I think a woman's figure there would help the girls. The figure of a woman would also be important for many men treated by nurses and for the parents of the eight women killed in the war and parents of nurses killed, God forbid, in future wars. So the petition, when advanced in the spirit of generosity is one of helping others and remembering others. It is not really about "Us! Now!" FORGETTING AND MISSTATING THE TRUTH When significant facts are brushed aside, let's watch out. It is bad for education and bad for unifying people. NAM VET Newsletter Page 69 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Dana Delaney's statements, for example, would lead folks to think that women were in some way deliberately or inadvertently omitted from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. General Vaught's could be read in support of Ms. Delaney's view. And General Vaught by her word choice did not show lots of respect for men, like von Steuben, Lafayette or Andrew Jackson who are, yes, on pedestals in town. The original Congressional statute authorizing the Vietnam Veterans Memorial called for it to honor the "men and women" of the United States Armed Forces. We in fact asked Congress for that language. All eight military women killed in Vietnam are listed on the Wall in Washington. The dedication on the Wall, right at the vertex, is to the "men and women" of the United States Armed Forces. The statue of three soldiers was created by us in the face of fierce opponents of the Wall who wanted no Wall at all. We suggested a statue be incorporated. We were then able to go forward. There were months in which any parties anywhere could suggest themes for the statue. No nurses came forward to speak. We decided to present three soldiers -- enlisted guys. Not officers. Not pilots. Not sailors. That is because the grunts are the emotional center of the war, almost any war. My thought is that nurses more than any would applaud the choice because it was those guys who bled so much on the operating tables and stretchers. The design of the memorial itself was open for all Americans 18 or older to join in. "It was in fact designed by a woman", Maya Ying Lin, then 21 years old. The Wall is both a symbol and an instrument of healing for all Americans. For purposes of rhetoric, women veterans now are understandably tempted to point to some great wrong or oversight that must hurriedly be corrected, a slight against them. There was none. The opposite is the truth. Women were instrumental in building the memorial. Sandie Fauriol and Karen Doubek led the fundraising for it. A woman designed it. The American Gold Star Mothers have been the Wall's staunchest ally. FALSE STEREOTYPING OF THE VIETNAM WAR AND THE AMERICANS WHO SERVED THERE. There is a risk that later generations will misinterpret the emphasis that the women's petition is making. Women serve in American wars. That is important for kids to know. But exaggeration and hot language can suggest something that is not true. It is not true that women were everywhere in the war zone in Vietnam. Vietnam was far more than the base camps where hospitals were. Unfortunately, the many good things that shows like "China Beach" or "M*A*S*H" (which was ab out Vietnam but placed in Korea because Vietnam was so sensitive a topic) do are accompanied by the risk that the many women on the set might lead viewers to think that women were everywhere all the time in Vietnam. this is a false image, a false stereotype. NAM VET Newsletter Page 70 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 MAKING LIFE HARDER FOR OTHER MEMORIAL BUILDERS. If an attitude of "We're here for ours!" grows among memorial builders, it will poison the work of others and vastly complicate the work of the fine Arts Commission, this Subcommittee and the memorial builders themselves. There is only so much room on the Mall. Themes of unity and of linking existing memorials together are what help visitors and our country itself. Sharing and generosity are what are needed. So is a sense of proportion, of concern for others and for landscaping and preserving the Mall as a park, not a place virtually paved over. POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS Mr. Chairman, this is a nascent issue, not one that has grown to become a huge obstacle. All involved have very good motives. Simple steps would suffice to address the concerns here: -- Airing this issue will help, and I thank you for receiving this testimony. On thinking about these issues, most people will collect their thoughts and do the right thing. -- The record for this legislation can make plain the intent of Congress that a spirit of generosity and healing be carried forward in the women's work and in the work of all who are involved in memorials, especially on the Mall. -- The Vietnam Womens Memorial Project can consider healing a true and grievous oversight: the omission of a symbol of the Vietnamese. I suggest that thought might be given to a relief or statue that includes a Vietnamese child, expressing the hope for the freedom of all Vietnamese that was a theme of the life and death of the men and women named on the Wall. -- A simple placement of the women's commemoration near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial will solve a space problem that plagues the Park Service. There are only so many good sites left on the Mall, with the Korean War Veterans Memorial being constructed. Placement near the Vietnam Vets Memorial for the women will solve that space problem, and keep them from colliding with those who are seeking to build the memorial on the Mall to Martin Luther King, Jr. In fact, in the spirit of generosity, a great act of statesmanship would be for those building the already approved Black Patriots memorial -- to go on the shore of the kidney shaped pond near the Vietnam Vets Memorial -- to offer to the Martin Luther King, Jr. proponents to share their beautiful space. This would be very fitting and would assure blacks of a prominent, emotionally full memorial, an inspiration to all of us, kids and adults, for generations. The key is the way the women here proceed. Generosity and sharing, and placing of their commemoration in a simple, landscaped setting near the Wall will open up all these possibilities. The women, and all of use, can lead by example. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I respectfully ask that this statement be placed in the record. NAM VET Newsletter Page 71 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 John Wheeler Comments, suggestions and recommendations -- please address yours in the message base, the VIETNAM_VETS echo, to Jack Wheeler. NAM VET Newsletter Page 72 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 RAMSEY CLARK AND THE PANAMA INVASION Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY (718) 448-2358 Former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark on the Invasion of Panama Radio Havana Cuba interview with Ramsey Clark, December 30, 1989 (RHC ANCHOR: Ramsey Clark was United States Attorney General under Lyndon Johnson during the Vietnam War. At the height of that war, he became an outspoken critic of the war of United States policy and is now criticizing the invasion of Panama. In an interview with Radio Havana Cuba, Mr. Clark condemned the 30,000 United States troops that invaded and are now occupying the central American country of Panama. Charging it violates United States and international law. We more from this interview, next on Headliners. With Ramsey Clark, Radio Havana Cuba reporter, Yolanda Fisher.) [ RHC / Yolanda Fisher questions in brackets] [Some people have made charges that President Bush acted outside United States and international law when he launched his attack on Panama. What's your assessment?] RAMSEY CLARK: Well, it's clear beyond argument, in my opinion, that the United States military action in Panama violates international laws designed to maintain peace, and the laws of the United States which are designed to keep the United States out of war, and from committing acts of unlawful military aggression. So I think military actions and all the deaths that have followed have been a result of conduct that violates international laws and the laws of the United States. [George Bush admitted to reporters that the act jeopardized United States relations with Latin America -- do you think this is correct?] It would be bad for Latin America if it hasn't; it certainly ought to. The United States again commits direct military actions against any nation in the Western Hemisphere. All the other nations certainly ought to pay attention; it concerns us all. It shows that the United States is still willing to commit military violence to have its way, as if no other nations or peoples in the whole hemisphere had any rights, any sovereignty, any self- determination opportunities. We begin the last decade of the 20th century pretty much as we ended the first decade of the 20th century: killing people in Panama, in violation of law. At least Teddy Roosevelt had enough sense to admit, when asked by what right he took the Canal Zone, to say, "I simply took it." He used force, illegally, but at least he didn't try to use rationalizations that would only demean the law. NAM VET Newsletter Page 73 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 I think President Bush's invocation of Article One of the UN Charter is particularly unfortunate. If true it would make the UN Charter an enemy of peace. If this is self-defense, then any aggression is permitted under the Charter it means that Charter is a matter of concern for all who care about peace. [You were an outspoken critic of the United States war in Vietnam. And now you're opposing the invasion of Panama; do you see any similarities between these two actions?] Well, there are many differences and many similarities. And complex historical analogies are difficult, but there's one thing in common that is, to me, a major lesson and that is in both instances the United States is ready, it seems, at least the government is, to believe that might makes right, it seems to be willing to use violence and technological sophistication against the lives of poor people living in poor countries, as a means of imposing its will on their lives. People who care about the human species should never tolerate that sort of policy or attitude. [It was said, after the United States lost the War in Vietnam, that the United States people would be reluctant to allow the United States to ever militarily intervene in another third-world country. Can you comment on that?] Well, that was wishful thinking. The Reagan Administration came in to power in 1981 determined, as far as I could tell, to find military conflict wherever it could be sure it could win. We had a stunning illustration of the supremacy of its military forces based on Grenada, which must be the greatest use of military violence by any of the so-called superpowers against a very small country in history. The United States had 25 people in full-time uniformed military service for every man, woman, and child in Grenada; it had three nuclear warheads for each person that lived there. It gave 9,000 medals to soldiers for participating in that military campaign, and they were movies celebrating the courage of Americans invading Grenada, if you can imagine it -- one of the worst examples of the United States' imperialistic military power in the Western Hemisphere. Ronald Reagan, who is always described as an extremely popular President, reached the height of his popularity in the polls immediately after the Grenada invasion, which was such a pitiful use of force. More Grenadians were killed during that invasion, in proportion to the population of Grenada, than the United States lost in four years on all fronts in World War Two, in proportion to its population -- which is kind of a statistical trick, but it also shows how devastating to individual lives in such a small place the United States invasion of Grenada was, and how celebrated it was in the United States. It should have forewarned us that the United States would use military power against third- world countries when its leadership dared, and its military thought it could win. [Do you think that the United States Government met more resistance than it had expected in Panama?] NAM VET Newsletter Page 74 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 We don't know enough about what really happened there. I've often thought that the greatest tragedy of the Grenada invasion of Grenada was the absolute control of information that the United States maintained, including -- well, everywhere, as to the costs and the facts of that invasion; we didn't know. They didn't even allow the United States press on the island of Grenada for over a week after the invasion. In Panama, the thing that is never mentioned, or even suggested, with rare exceptions, is how many Panamanians have lost their lives. There's no way to tell here, the only thing here is 20-odd American soldiers, as if that's all that mattered. The lives of every Panamanian is as valuable as the life of any people anywhere, and we ought to be as concerned for the Panamanian people as we are for our own families and children. And yet no one even asks, much less seems to know, how many Panamanians have been killed, but it's hundreds and hundreds and probably thousands, and it's very important that we find out. That's the most immediate and tragic price, but the greater threat of the invasion of Panama is that if it seems to succeed, it'll simply be a precedent for other military adventurism, until the United States stops its use of military violence as a means of having its will over other people. [General Noriega has taken sanctuary in the Vatican offices in Panama City. What are the realistic options for the Vatican and for General Noriega at this point?] Well, the most obvious and immediate option is -- and it's more than realistic; it's traditional -- is for him to remain in the Vatican compound there, inviolate, pending some resolution of -- that would involve free choice for Noriega and others -- is for him to remain there or go someplace else. The principle of sanctuary is critically important to the hope for peace. If you can go and smash down anyplace you want to, and drag people out and kill them or try them first and then hang them or whatever it is you have in mind -- then we know there's no end to violence. It's just a matter of perceived conquest, that sanctuary tries to put a halt to that, to resist violence rather than provoke violence, and the Vatican has provided great moral leadership with sanctuary. We've tried to emulate it some here in the United States, with people fleeing from El Salvador and elsewhere for their lives, and the United States Government trying to return them to a place where they would be their lives would be endangered, so the churches and others are providing sanctuary here. So I would think the Vatican would maintain its tradition, which is universal or catholic in its importance. If some third country agrees to accept Mr. Noriega, which countries ought to be willing to do, because it's a means of conflict-resolution, preventing wars and violence, then if he chose he can go there or he could perhaps at some later date be released into his own country, which everyone should always have the right to return to. [We've been speaking with Ramsey Clark; this is Yolanda Fisher for Radio Havana Cuba.] NAM VET Newsletter Page 75 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 * * * Transcribed by Kathleen Kelly from RHC's English-language broadcast for The NY Transfer, A Free-Speech Independent BBS: (718) 448-2358 NAM VET Newsletter Page 76 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= C o n c e n t r a t e d S e r v i c e ================================================================= VIETNAM_VETS Echo targets on SERVICE! By: G. Joseph Peck NAM VETs Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 Too often you and I have seen and been involved in instances where "foot dragging" and "lip service" seem to be the Order of the Day. With the beginning of 1990 - a new year and a new decade - VIETNAM_VETS and NAM VET have targeted select areas of veteran services on which to concentrate in order to assure all our veterans access to and receipt of the benefits they have justly EARNED and have every right to expect!!! Initial "grass roots" testing of a letterhead listing the City and State of many IVVEC-NamVet-BVC (Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc.) participants has had mixed results (i.e. Letters of support & evaluation for incarcerated veterans have had positive results; letters accompanying veterans' resumes have resulted in applications being given to the veteran - but no employment; etc.). AFTER all other methods have been exhausted and WHEN there appears to be a possibility of continued delay and non-response, either myself, as President/Service Officer of Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc., or other duly-authorized Service Representative of IVVEC-NamVet-BVC will make public a text-file copy of communications that have been sent on IVVEC-NamVet-BVC stationery to a particular individual and/or organization. This "initial communication" shall be followed by related responses and actions taken unless requested otherwise by any of the involved parties. This "make the efforts public" approach is NOT intended to intimidate, coerce nor pressure an organization or individual to act in a desired manner, but rather to educate and allow the general public examination of actions involved in service-delivery to the veterans of our nation and an awareness of what is involved in attaining them. As the innovator and initiator of the "Electronic Action For Our Veterans" service concept, the first such "text-file copy" of communication(s) delivered on IVVEC-NamVet-BVC stationery has fallen, by lucky-coincidence or poor design upon ME and involves a situation in which *I* am presently involved in. YOUR comments/criticisms/interest regarding the letter which follows are invited. As I can, I will keep you advised of events as they unfold. Ci'ao for Ni'ao -Joe- NAM VET Newsletter Page 77 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 D.A.V. Service & Involvement requested --Initially caused to be published in the FidoNet Echo VIETNAM_VETS on or about 1 January 1990 -- XXX XXXX XXXXXX Pittsfield, Massachusetts 01201 1 January 1990 (A text-file copy of this letter has been made public in an international computer-based bulletin board network dedicated and committed to veterans and the issues that concern them. Unless you request otherwise, your replies and those of DAV National Headquarters in Washington, D.C. - as well as actions taken by DAV - will also be made public in order that we may continue the education of our Nation's veterans of the efforts of the Disabled American Veterans to provide much-needed and valuable services to the veterans it represents.) Everett J. Nygard, Jr. State Commander DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS Department of Massachusetts Room 546 - The State House Boston, Massachusetts 02133 RE: Commonwealth of Massachusetts Land Court Department of the Trial Court Case No. 137397 Request for HELP from DAV attorney's Dear Commander Nygard: As referenced above - and evidenced by the enclosed copy - my family and I are in a little bit of trouble and apparently on the verge of joining the many homeless veterans throughout our U.S. The situation with my present house/home is critical. As a result of my continued unemployability, we are presently making our first mortgage payments to U.S. Dept. of Housing and Urban Development (Account XX-XXXXXX-X). The action in question concerns a home equity loan for which I've fallen in arrears. As somewhat evidenced by the also-enclosed copies, this is not the first time we've been in this type of situation, nor the first time I've asked the DAV (and many others) for HELP in a situation I have done the best I can in. The original closing on my present house/home took place on 13 Mar 86. The Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget Act eliminated my position at the VA Medical Center in Northampton, MA on 14 Mar 86 - and its been downhill since. But its also been very educational regarding the still- challenged loss of my Hillsdale, NY house/home. For instance, research has revealed that, among other things: (a) The XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX Savings Bank failed to provide an accounting statement as required by VA and Federal regulations which would have shown that my VA NAM VET Newsletter Page 78 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Disability Compensation check was being used as a guarantee for the home mortgage/improvement loans; (1) IF the XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX Savings Bank would have properly complied with regulations, Homestead, Soldier & Sailors Act of 1940 as amended, and other protections would have possibly aided; (b) The XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX Savings Bank failed to notify me of the possible intervention of HUD and/or other methods of resolving the situation; (c) In that the mortgage and subsequent home improvement loans were "guaranteed" by my VA Disability Compensation check, by accelerating the payments on the mortgage and home improvement loans, the XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX Savings Bank exerted apparent undue influence in its effort to acquire my property. I could not then, nor can I now, afford an attorney to properly present this matter to the New York State courts - although I HAVE contacted many in the NY Attorney General and NY Dept of Law's offices (among many others) and have been advised to proceed with proper legal representation. VA and DAV records will indicate that I have a long, long- standing claim in for Unemployability - directly related to injuries received in or aggravated by military service - which is presently under review by BVA Chairman Kenneth Eaton as per the 8 Aug 89 written advice of Mr. Anthony J. Principi, Deputy Secretary of the Office of the Administrator of Veterans' Affairs. IF my claim is "assertively represented" rather than "passively processed" the attendant retroactive benefits to which I have long been entitled will quickly resolve this situation and restore my own self-dignity and respect. CAN and WILL the DAV help me save my present home? Yours, in Service to America ... and my fellow man In kindness, honesty and good faith G(eorge) Joseph Peck Past Commander/Service Officer - DAV MA Chapter 15 Pittsfield, MA Life Member # 20015L13624 cc: Vernon V. Cardosi, National Commander - DAV Washington, D.C. 20024 Computer Copy: VIETNAM_VETS International CBCS Echo Files Encl's: 8/2/81 Letter to US Dept of Treasury 2/17/82 Letter to X XXXXX, XXX NAM VET Newsletter Page 79 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= M i l i t a r y O r g a n i z a t i o n s ================================================================= Service Organizations & BBS's From: Armed Forces & Veterans Service Organizations Found on The United States Veterans BBS in Minn. Input by: Joyce Flory NAM VETs Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM (505) 523-2811 Name Address Air Force Ass. 1501 Lee Highway Arlington, VA 22209-1198 (703)-247-5800 Air Force Sgt. Ass. PO Box 31050 Temple Hill,Md 20748 (303)-899-3500 Alliance of Women Vets PO Box 48817 Los Angeles, Ca 90048 (213)-931-6173 American Battleship Ass. PO Box 11247 San Diego,Ca 92111 American Defenders of PO Box 2052 Bataan & Corregidor Inc. New Bern, NC 25861-2052 (919)-637-4044 American Ex-Prisoners of 3201 E.Pioneer Parkway Suite 40 War Inc. Arlington,Tx 76010 (817)-649-2979 American GI Forum of the PO Box 7517 U.S. Albuquerque,NM 87104-7515 (505)-247-4910 American Gold Star 2128 Leroy Place NW Mothers Inc. Wash.DC 20008 (202)-265-0991 American Legion 700 N. Pennsylvania St. Indianapolis,In 46206 (317)-635-8411 American Military 69 Clinton St. Retirees Ass. Plattsburg,NY 12901 (518)-563-9479 American Red Cross 17th & D Sts. NW Washington, DC 20006 (202)-639-3586 American Vets Committee 1735 DeSales St.NW Suite 402 NAM VET Newsletter Page 80 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Washington,DC 20036 (202)-639-8886 American Vets of WWII, 4647 Forbes Blvd. Korea & Vietnam (AMVETS) Lanham, Md. 20706 (301)-459-9600 American War Mothers 2615 Woodley Place NW Washington, DC 20008 (202)-462-2791 Armed Forces Communica- 4400 Fair Lakes Court tion & Electronics Ass. Fairfax,Va 22033-3899 (703)-631-6125 Army & Navy Union,USA PO Box 7429 Station A Inc. Canton,O. 44705-7429 (216)-456-7312 Army Mutual Aid Ass. Fort Myer Arlington Va. 22211 (703)-522-3060 Ass. of the US Army 2425 Wilson Blvd. Arlington, VA 22201 (703)-841-4300 Blind Vets Ass. 1735 DeSales St.NW Suite 600 Washington, DC 20036 (202)-347-4010 Blue Star Mothers of Route 2,Box 335 America Iola, Wi 54945 (715)-445-3733 Catholic War Vets,USA 419 N. Lee St. Inc. Alexandria,Va 22314 (703)-549-3622 Coast Guard Combat Vets 6858 Lafayette Road Ass. Medina,O 44256 (216)-725-6527 Coast Guard SEA Vets 18 Golf Road Clarendon Mid-America Hills,Il 60514 (312)-323-2234 Combat Infantrymen's 43 Dunwell Ave. Ass. Asheville,NC 28806 (704)-253-5493 Combined National Vets 419 N. Lee St. Ass. of America Alexandria,Va 22314 (703)-549-3622 Congressional Medal of Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Honor Society of the USA Museum 12th Ave. at 46th St. New York, NY 10036 (212)-582-5355 NAM VET Newsletter Page 81 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Destroyer Escort Sailors PO Box 680085 Ass. Orlando, FL. 32868-0085 (305)-290-5594 Disabled American Vets PO Box 145550 Cincinnati, OH 42550-5550 (606)-441-7300 Fleet Reserve Ass. 1303 New Hampshire Ave.NW Washington, DC 20036 (202)-785-2786 Gold Star Wives of 1025 Jamaica Court America Ass. Aurora, CO 80010 (303)-364-0300 Italian American War Vets 115 Meridian Road of the US Inc. Youngstown, OH 44509 Jewish War Vets of the 1811 R St. NW US of A Washington, DC 20009 (202)-265-6280 Korean War Vets Ass. PO Box 12205 Baltimore, Md. 21281 (301)-327-2845 Legion of Valor of the 92 Oak Leaf Lane USA Inc. Chapel Hill, NC 27514-9440 (919)-933-0989 Marine Corps League 955 N.Monroe St. Arlington,Va 22201 (703)-524-1137 Mexican Border Vets Inc. 4248 Dryden Circle Sarasota,Fl 34241 (813)-371-2916 Military Chaplains Ass. PO Box 645 Riverdale,Md 20737-0645 (301)-699-3505 Military Order of the 5413-B Blacklick Rd. Purple Heart of USA Inc. Springfield,Va 22151 (703)-642-5360 Military Order of the 435 N.Lee St. World Wars Arlington,Va 22314 (703)-683-4911 NAM-POWs Inc. 5305 Boxwood Lane Austin,Tx 78723 (512)-926-2489 National Amputation 12-45 150th St. Foundation Inc. Whitestone, NY 11357 (212)-767-0596 NAM VET Newsletter Page 82 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 National Ass. for Black 4185 N.Greenbay Ave. Vets Inc. Milwaukee,Wi 53209 (414)-562-8387 National Ass. For Unifor- 5535 Hempstead Way med Services Springfield,Va 22151-4094 (703)-750-1342 National Ass. of Atomic 708 S.Aorora PO Box 409 Vets Eldon,Mo 65026-0409 (314)-392-3361 National Ass. of PO Box 26031 Concerned Vets Washington, DC 20001 (202)-483-0342 National Ass. of Military 4023 25th Road N Widows Arlington,Va 22207 (703)-5274565 National Ass. of Radi- 78 El Camino Real ation Survivors Berkely,Ca 94705 (415)-654-0100 National Congress of 304 Park Ave. Puerto Rican Vets Inc. NY,NY 10010 (212)-260-3000 ext.362 National League of 1608 K St. NW Families of Prisoners & Washington, DC 20006 Missing in S.E. Asia (202)-223-6846 National Order of Battle- 923 E.Garfield Ave. field Commissions Milwaukee,Wi 53212 (414)-562-5890 National Vietnam Vets 1000 Thomas Jefferson St 6th floor Coalition Wash.DC 20007 (202)-338-6882 Naval Reserve Ass. 1619 King St. Alexandria,Va 22314-2793 (703)-548-5800 Naval League of the US 2300 Wilson Blvd. Arlington,Va 22201 (703)-528-1775 Navy Mutual Aid Ass. Arlington Annex Room G-070 Washington, DC 20370 (202)-694-1638 Non-Commissioned 10635 IH 35 N. Officers Ass. Austin,Tx 78233 (512)-653-6161 Paralyzed Vets of 801 18th St.NW NAM VET Newsletter Page 83 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 America Washington, DC 20006 (202)-872-1300 Patrol Craft Sailors Ass. 3921 Maybreeze Rd. Marietta,Ga 30066 (404)-926-7430 Patrol Frigate Sailors 5272 Doris Dr. Ass. Arnold,Mo 63010 (314)-296-5401 Pearl Harbor Survivors 3215 Albert St. Ass. Inc. Orlando,Fl 32806 (305)-423-8344 Polish Legion of American 3024 N.Laramie St. Vets USA Chicago,Il 60641 P.T.Boats Inc. PO Box 109 Memphis,Tn 48101-0109 (901)-272-9980 Regular Vets Ass.of the 1309 Harrison Lane S/511 US Inc. Austin,Tx 78742 (512)-389-2288 Reserve Officers Ass.of 1 Constitution Ave. the US Inc. Washington, DC 20002 (202)-479-2200 Retired Army Nurse Ass. PO Box 39235 Serna Station San Antonio,Tx 78218-1235 Retired Chaplins Ass. 9328 Sonora Ave. Brentwood,Mo 63144 Society of Military 5535 Hempstead Way Widows Springfield,Va 22151-4094 (707)-750-1342 The Retired Enlisted Ass. PO Box 1218 Aurora,Co 80040-1218 (303)-364-8737 Uniformed Services 5909 Alta Monte NE Disabled Retirees Albuquerque,NM 87110 (505)-881-4568 United Spainish War Vets PO Box 1915 Washington, DC 20013 (202)-347-1898 USN Armed Guard,National 5712 Partridge Lane Raleigh,NC 27609 (919)-876-5537 Vets of Foreign Wars of 406 W.34th St. the US (VFW) Kansas City, Mo 64111 (816)-756-3390 NAM VET Newsletter Page 84 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Vets of WWI of the USA 941 N.Capitol St. Inc. Washington, DC 20421 (202)-275-1388 Vietnam Era Vets Ass. 242 Praire Ave. Providence,RI 02907 (401)-521-6710 Vietnam Vets of America 2001 S St. NW Inc. Washington, DC 20009 (202)-332-2700 Military Related BBS's Thanks to The United States Veterans BBS PC-8000 BBS (704)-456-4366 General purpose board run by Wildcat! USCG Headquarters BBS (202)-267-0925 Info for retired & active Coast Guard LZ-Birningham BBS (205)-870-7770 Vietnam specific BBS that specializes in bringing together those who served in Nam. Search by name or unit US Veterans BBS (612)-522-2026 Vet. specific BBS. In Minneapolis,Mn PC Pursuit availiable Silent Service BBS (202)-574-8423 For active duty,retired & vets with emphasis on sub service In Washington, DC PC Pursuit available Fighter Country III BBS (602)-486-1833 General purpose military-oriented By John Savage, retired US Air Force Vietnam Data Rescource (213)-373-6597 Data bank of info for & Electronic Library researchers & Vietnam In suburb of LA PC Pursuit available NAM VET Newsletter Page 85 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= S u b s c r i b e N o w ! ================================================================= -- SUBSCRIPTION FORM -- The Nam Vet Newsletter is a nonprofit publication available free of charge to anyone wishing to have a copy. It can be obtained in electronic computer format by anyone having access to a computer and modem by dialing up any of the IVVEC hosting bulletin board systems listed in this issue of the Nam Vet. It can also be mailed to you in printed format if you are willing to pay the $1.67 cost for postage and the mailing envelope. If you desire to have the Nam Vet mailed to you in printed format, please complete the subscription form below, clip it out, and mail it to: Nam Vet Newsletter Vietnam Veterans Valhalla 28 Cecil Avenue San Jose, California 95128 If you send your payment in check or money order, please make it payable to Todd Looney. NAME_____________________________________________________________ STREET ADDRESS __________________________________________________ CITY/STATE/ZIP __________________________________________________ AMOUNT ENCLOSED ($1.67 per month desired) _______________________ If this subscription is for someone else, to whom shall we credit the gift? ______________________________________ January90 NAM VET Newsletter Page 86 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 ================================================================= I V V E C - W h o a n d W h a t ================================================================= Input by: Lefty Frizzell NAM VETs Homeless Section Editor The Executive Washroom - San Antonion, TX International Vietnam Veterans Echo Conference Sorted ALPHABETICALLY by Origin Line 28 Nov 1989 to 31 Dec 1989 Disgruntled, but still working (1:320/202) *OFFICIAL* FrontDoor Help Node - Oz East Coast (3:711/805.2) -=[ SoundingBoard of Houston (713)821-4148 HST ]=-(Opus 1:106/12) >>Radio Free Jacksonville * Echoes & Texts to go <(1:112/8) Bangor ROS ROSnet#07 *HST* Bangor, ME (1:132/301) Basic'ly Computers: Who's WAZOOming Who? (Opus 1:153/2) BEAR'S LAIR BBS (1:160/205) Berkshire Estates *HST* 413-499-1327 (1:321/210) Cedar Chemical / Southern Belle Gateway - NEC (1:361/13) Classic City Node-1 Athens, Ga. (404)548-0130(1:370/10) Classic City Node-2 Athens, Ga. (404)548-0726 (1:370/10) Cobra BBS! Pearland, Tx (713)996-1460 1:106/993 Combat Arms BBS -Gun files source- 415-537-1777 (1:161/357) Commo Bunker of Karnes County TX "Don't Mean Nuttin" (1:387/801) Dak To Ridge Runner - VetPoint 47 (1:321/203.47) DESERT DOLPHIN WOC'in New Mexico (505) 523-2811 (Opus 1:305/105) Dickinson Night Light Dickinson Tx. (713)337-1452 (1:106/995.0) Disgruntled, but still working (1:320/202) Duffey's Tavern "Remember our POW's & MIA's !" (1:380/5.0) Elk Grove Repeater - (312) 529-1586 Elk Grove, IL (1:115/529) Fleming BBS (1:229/314) Fort Mountain BBS VetPoint 401 (1:321/203.401) HARDWIRED - The WOCin' Bug Zapper (1:124/4210.0) HBX/EDS Vietnam Memorial Update Point (TComm 1:109/316.1) Helping Vets the best we can! ISU BBS - Terre Haute IN (1:231/70) Hotel Six Whiskey Five Three Charlie(1:109/124.600) Jim's Hooch, once part of Meyers Motel, 21st Spec Ops Sq Kauai_1_Kekaha, Hawaii (808-337-9280) (1:161/414) KIC-BBS, from the heart of Cincinnati, Oh. (HST) (1:108/89.0) KramMail, Check/Read/Reply/Quote/Download for OPUS (1:106/437) Long_Island RB (Opus 1:102/138) McScott's BBS, NorthEast Arkansas' VetLink -HST-(1:389/2001) Microplus Systems Technologies (1:204/27) Midas Touch: Where the Great & Wonderful Kahuna IS!!! (1:363/10.0) Moderator of STRESS_MGMT Echo, PCP CASAN 714-952-2110 (1:103/227) NASW New Mexico - Las Cruces,NM - (505) 646-286 (1:305/101) NCC-1701: "Beam me up, Scotty!!" (Opus 1:124/1701) Network Gateway to RBBS-NET (RBBS-PC 1:10/8) Nighthawk - Running WILD! in Phoenix 602-995-3321 HST (1:114/36) Now and Zen Opus HST (916) 962-1952 (1:203/34.0) NPI III (617-592-5772) Lynn, MA USA (Opus 1:101/193) Oregon_XT/AT 1-503-640-6828 (1:105/306) Rocky Mtn Info Exchange Parker, CO (303) 841-9570 (1:104/739) S-P-I-K-E- @ Runway's End (1:232/18) SIREN IS CALLING SACRAMENTO CA [CASAC] (916)971-0589 (1:203/11) Scorpio BBS *PCBoard -> QuickBBS* (704) 542-5135 (1:379/3) SeaBat BBS - Home Of USS Liberty Veterans Association (1:160/230) NAM VET Newsletter Page 87 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 SEGUARO BBS-Somewhere in Illinois (Yuck!) (1:288/525) Setpoint, Inc. Houston, Texas (1:106/116) Software Tools-You'll Never WOC Alone,Sydney OZi4i4 (3:711/403.0) Sonoma Online, RFE! 707/545-0746 Fido V12R/HST (1:125/7) Stingray! - Clovis, CA - [209-298-9461] - HST - (Opus 1:205/12) StormyWeatherI(DEBATER's WOC here)<1-713-644-4345>(Opus1:106/108) STRESS_MGMT&CFS_CFSIDS Avail from CASAN 714-952-2110 (1:103/227) TCS (301)261-3877 [AKA 7:524/2052] ...(Opus (1:109/50) The Buckeye Hamshack ~ Akron,Ohio (216)867-6984, 760Meg, HST The Bullfrog BBS*Memphis,TN * (901)684-1758 "RRrribitt"(1:123/18) The Chai Way : KESHERnet Dallas (214) 239-7607 (1:124/4106) The Debate Place BBS Houston Texas (713)451-6066 (Opus 1:106/113) Executive WashroomPlease flush and turn off the light! (1:106/449) The Fireside Opus, Houston, Texas (1:106/114) The FLIGHT-DECK (201)896-8718 Carlstadt, N.J. (1:107/565) The Jimby BBS! * DB/WC/QBBS * What a Combo! (1:350/21) The NETWORK - G rated FAMILY oriented (1:129/34) The Point After TBBS Multi-Line *HST* (714) 826-0125 (1:103/226) The Precedent, Mukilteo,WA (206) 355-1295 (1:343/9.0) The Soldier's Bored, Missouri City, Tx, 713-437-2859, 14.4 HST The Steel Valley BBS (1:237/505.0) The VETNET Translation BBS (1:106/449.0) The Write Only Memory (Opus 1:109/415) THE ZOO BBS HST(Opus (1:108/50) The ZTRON BBS <> Hubbard, Oh. (Opus 1:237/510) There are only two kinds of ships Subs and Targets *HST*(1:308/60) They're alltryingtosilence TheNYTransfer (718)448-2358 (1:13/1033) TPTBB--That's just it, Bubba...Sic 'im MURPHY! (1:106/116.1) VetPoint - VetCenter on a floppy disk! (1:321/203.707) Vietnam Veterans Valhalla (1:143/27) 408-737-2564 (1:143/27) ZEPHYR, HST, National Capital Area, 703-620-5418(TComm(1:109/124) Zone 8 Echogate The No-Politics No-Games Network(1:129/34) \/irginian /X\etropolis/Churchland VA/804-483-0437 (1:271/309.0) My apologies to the Relaynet and Quicklink personnel. I am working on a way to show your taglines in the NAMVET News. Hopefully, you will show up in the next newsletter. Lefty Frizzell GateHost NAM VET Newsletter Page 88 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Parameters of VIETNAM_VETS echoconference... This message will be placed by myself or Todd Looney in the VIETNAM_VETS echomail area at regular intervals. This message constitutes the parameters regarding the use, access and distribution of the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference. LEGALITIES: VIETNAM_VETS is an International "veteran-support" EchoConference that is privately owned and operated as both a support mechanism and outreach effort by its originator, Todd Looney and G. Joseph Peck, President, Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc. VIETNAM_VETS is jointly moderated by Todd Looney and G. Joseph Peck. The ECHOMAIL COORDINATOR of VIETNAM_VETS is presently G. Joseph Peck - FidoNet 1:321/203; AlterNet 7:46/203 (1-413-443-6313). VIETNAM_VETS is carried as a courtesy and service to America's veterans on the FidoNet echomail "backbone" and through parts of AlterNet and other networks. Where policies of FidoNet or other networks and those of VIETNAM_VETS conflict, every effort will be made to reach an amicable solution to any posed problem. Todd Looney, Originator/Co-Moderator, and G. Joseph Peck, Co-moderator/EchoMail Coordinator, herein reserve the right to remove VIETNAM_VETS from a network should the policies of that network prove to be obstructive rather than conducive to the mission of this EchoConference. OVERVIEW: For some Vietnam Veterans, every day is a bitter struggle to survive as they try to find some way to either escape the horrible memories of that war or to come to terms with themselves so they and their families can begin a normal life. For other veterans of the Vietnam era there is often a fervent desire for comradery with members of the military who also served during that troubled time in our nations history. Until May of 1986 and the creation of the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) at Todd Looney's Vietnam Veterans' Valhalla, finding a way to satisfy the needs of these - the toughest, most persistent and determined veterans in ALL of U.S. history - as well as give non-veterans and others a chance to interact and learn firsthand from the Vietnam veterans about the war and its complexities, was difficult at best. IVVEC has changed all that! DESCRIPTION: VIETNAM_VETS is an "open forum" type conversational conference for the discussion of topics related to service in the SouthEast Asian and other theaters, crisis support and possible intervention, state and federal benefit entitlements, employment rights and guarantees, discharge upgrading, and other veteran service-oriented topics. PURPOSE: The purpose of the International VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference (IVVEC) is to be the support vehicle through which the veteran, particularly the Vietnam veteran, and his or her family will have an opportunity to communicate about his or her war experiences, often for the first time since returning from Vietnam. Each of us - as veterans, significant and/or concerned others - participate in the IVVEC to help each other with support, suggestions, ideas and comments. Together, as one of America's NAM VET Newsletter Page 89 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 proudest groups, we can share resources and experiences which will strengthen and build our fellow veterans and may help provide a guide through the labyrinth of state and federal services many of us have honorably earned and have every right to expect. HANDLES: The use of "handles" in VIETNAM_VETS is allowed, only if the handle that you use is the name you normally use on the board on which you access the conference. MESSAGE CONTENT(S): Personal attacks on individuals whose sometimes-strong opinions differ from the IVVEC "norm" are discouraged. The object is to learn from and support others, not argue with them or "go for their throat"! Aside from the parameter concerning attacks upon other users, it is hereby stipulated that messages in the conference will use tasteful language. Flames, comments, suggestions and such should be addressed to the conference moderator/coordinator via netmail at 1:321/203 and NOT posted in the EchoConference. ADVERTISING: Advertising of for-profit organizations is not allowed. Acceptable advertising is that which announces a veteran-oriented BBS, supports a veteran-related enterprise of a veteran-member of the EchoConference, or of the efforts of a nationally recognized veterans' group or organization. DISTRIBUTION: The conference is commonly known as the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) and is distributed throughout America, Canada and parts of Australia as "VIETNAM_VETS". Distribution in America is generally via the FidoNet backbone which is part of the distribution topology currently in effect. Other nets distributing the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference must follow proper procedures for zonegating as established by the FIDONET International Coordinator. All messages in the echo must have a FidoNet compatible origin line. The Origin line should contain the word ORIGIN: followed by the originating systems name, zone, net, node and point number if applicable. Distributing messages between systems of various networks without authorized zonegating and/or changing of distribution topology beyond the original transfer is in direct violation of the distribution topology of this conference. I. Nodelist as of 01/01/90, Sorted by Area Code Max Net/Node Name, City Telephone No Baud ========= ================================= ============== == 7:520/563 3 EEE's BBS, Clifton NJ Ed Edell 1-201-340-3531 96 107/563 EEE's BBS Clifton NJ Ed Edell 1-201-340-3531 96 141/488 Alice's Restaurant Branford CT 1-203-488-1115 24 141/250 Wilton Woods Wilton, CT 1-203-762-8481 96 124/201 Hardwired Dallas, TX 1-204-931-2987 24 344/117 LSO QuickBBS, Everett WA 1-206-334-3088 96 344/9 The Precedent, Everett WA 1-206-355-1295 ? 138/35 US HDS Human Service Seattle, WA 1-206-442-8127 24 343/26 AFMINS BBS 1-206-488-4309 96 343/111 Lessor Puget TB Edmonds, WA 1-206-742-8067 24 138/52 Burrell's Ballpark Tacoma, WA 1-206-752-4672 24 138/4 PTC Net Mount Vernon, WA 1-206-757-5248 24 NAM VET Newsletter Page 90 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 138/49 The Cohort Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-2646 96 138/101 Story Board Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-5317 96 138/3 Reg17 ADVISOR EMERITUS Puyallup WA 1-206-848-9232 24 200/200 CSULB Long Beach, CA 1-213-494-8737 12 200/100 The Board Room Belmont Shores CA 1-213-498-6425 24 124/117 NCC-1701 Node 1 Dallas, TX 1-214-240-8821 24 124/106 CHAI Way II Dallas, TX 1-214-250-3323 96 136/200 The Chai Way II Austin, TX 1-214-358-3738 24 124/4210 Hardwired Dallas TX 1-214-437-4075 96 124/110 Flying Dutchman Dallas, TX 1-214-642-3436 96 124/14 Chrysalis Dallas, TX 1-214-985-9054 24 157/501 The PC-Key BBS Girard OH 1-216-545-9205 24 157/1 Auer Register Cleveland, OH 1-216-883-0578 24 227/1 Michiana TechLine Mishawaka, IN 1-219-258-0286 96 227/150 The SX Project Whiting IN 1-219-659-2711 24 013/33 Avi-Technic Lutherville, MD 1-301-252-0717 96 109/648 Falcon's Rock College Park, MD 1-301-345-7459 24 261/1004 The PainFrame 1-301-488-7461 ? 013/30 The Futurists BBS Perry Hall, MD 1-301-529-0716 96 109/717 Tin Badge BBS Silver Spring, MD 1-301-589-2016 12 109/722 Ronnie's Roadies, Camp Springs MD 1-301-736-0135 12 261/628 Liberty Hall Reisterstown, MD 1-301-833-8933 24 261/1044 Firestation BBS, Baltimore, MD 1-301-866-8613 24 261/1007 FINAL FRONTIER 1-301-947-4404 ? 104/51 P2 B2 South Denver, CO 1-303-329-3337 24 104/28 Pinecliff BBS Boulder, CO 1-303-444-7073 24 128/16 Firenet Leader Colorado Springs CO 1-303-591-9600 24 104/739 The Phoenix Parker, CO 1-303-841-9570 24 135/35 The Sober Way Out BBS Miami, FL 1-305-445-6917 24 135/27 Bitsy's Place Miami Beach FL 1-305-865-0495 96 232/4 Runways End OPUS Peoria, IL 1-309-691-5416 96 115/20 North Shore BBS Evanston, IL 1-312-491-2611 24 115/529 Elk Grove Repeater Elk Grv Vlg IL 1-312-529-1586 24 115/761 ICS/TRIX 1 OPUS Chicago, IL 1-312-761-7887 24 011/202 SouthSide BBS Indianapolis, IN 1-317-882-9330 12 285/622 Friend's BBS Omaha, NE Joan Renne 1-402-896-2669 24 370/5 Athens Forum Athens, GA 1-404-546-7857 96 370/11 Classic City Vet's Conf, Athens, GA1-404-548-0130 ? 370/10 Classic Quick Echo, Athens, GA 1-404-548-0726 24 128/13 COSUG-Colorado's User Clrdo Spg CO 1-719-633-4563 24 385/6 Bink's Barn Lawton, OK 1-405-357-2473 24 385/4 Info-Net Lawton, OK 1-405-357-6181 24 147/14 Dark Star TBBS Oklahoma City, OK 1-405-691-0863 96 363/10 Midas Touch Orlando, FL 1-407-648-1133 24 363/9 MaMaB--Mark's Bedroom, Orlanda, FL 1-407-894-0807 96 157/506 Beacon Hill OPUS Transfer, PA 1-412-962-9514 24 321/109 PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA 1-413-256-1037 96 321/203 VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA 1-413-443-6313 24 321/210 Berkshire_Estates Pittsfield, MA 1-413-499-1327 96 154/200 PC-Express Greenfield, WI 1-414-327-5300 24 139/640 Fox Valley Tech Appleton, WI 1-414-735-2513 24 125/78 Living Sober BBS San Mateo, CA 1-415-342-2859 24 143/20 SeaHunt BBS, Burlington, CA 1-415-343-5904 96 143/86 Cat's Tail BBS STOP San Mateo CA 1-415-349-8245 24 161/208 G.A.D.M. Multi-User Hayward, CA 1-415-581-3019 ? 125/31 Echo Coord San Francisco CA 1-415-621-5206 96 161/56 Nat'l Family Forum Freemont, CA 1-415-651-4147 24 161/1 Nerd's Nook Concord CA 1-415-672-2504 96 161/509 Enterprize Pinole, CA 1-415-758-1650 24 NAM VET Newsletter Page 91 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 161/7 Mover Mouse BBS Fremont, CA 1-415-883-1644 24 011/700 FCAU IBM Net Toronto, ON 1-416-427-0682 96 148/120 Genetic Research Vat Toronto ON 1-416-480-0551 24 014/703 Telen-Quest BBS 1-417-882-5108 ? 019/43 McScott's BBS, Blytheville AR 1-502-532-6212 96 105/61 Shotgun OPUS Portland, OR 1-503-760-4521 24 105/16 Net 105 EchoMail Hub Portland, OR 1-503-761-3003 24 305/101 NASW New Mexico Las Cruces, NM 1-505-646-2868 24 305/105 Desert Dolphin, Las Cruces, NM 1-505-523-2811 24 381/401 Border Connection White Sands, NM 1-505-678-1318 24 322/230 Denis's OPUS, Ayer, MA (Ft.Devins) 1-508-772-6373 ? 382/1 Crystal Palace Lake Travis, TX 1-512-339-8037 24 387/401 Comp-U-Gen II San Antonio TX 1-512-496-9373 24 387/601 NCOA Intl BBS San Antonio TX 1-512-653-0409 24 382/14 Corona Del Mar Rockport, TX 1-512-729-7026 96 110/20 EDS Data Dayton, OH 1-513-455-2431 24 221/156 Waterloo CBCS PUBLIC Waterloo, ON 1-519-746-5020 96 153/130 VETSTAR (Northwest) 1-602-462-8752 24 114/13 Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ 1-602-644-0179 24 132/101 BBS Source Archive Nashua, NH 1-603-888-8179 24 153/123 DAETECH Burnaby BC 1-604-420-2641 96 153/133 Hot Line Data Network Langley BC 1-604-533-0421 24 220/20 Old Frog's Almanac Nanaimo BC 1-604-758-3072 24 153/508 Ebenezer Christian BBS Mission BC 1-604-826-6607 96 108/50 The ZOO BBS Independence, KY 1-606-283-2040 24 108/105 Global Time Systems Cincinnati, OH 1-606-341-7910 24 108/90 DATANET Info System Erlanger KY 1-606-727-3638 24 150/803 Jersey Vertex Moorestown, NJ 1-609-869-0139 24 362/1 The Mines of Moria Chattanooga, TN 1-615-344-9601 24 362/501 Coconut Telegraph Chattanooga, TN 1-615-698-4858 24 010/215 Silver BBS San Diego, CA 1-619-226-4502 24 202/401 jabberWOCky Escondido CA 1-619-743-9935 24 109/639 The RENEX BBS Woodbridge, VA 1-703-494-8331 24 109/124 ZEPHYR National Capital Area 1-703-620-5418 96 109/604 ShanErin Alexandria, VA 1-703-941-8291 24 379/201 Metro Link Charlotte, NC 1-704-553-9534 96 125/7 Survival Forum Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-545-0746 96 125/12 The Grape Vine Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-546-4938 24 161/502 Wildcat Benicia CA 1-707-746-5820 24 106/132 Fast BBS OPUS Katy, TX 1-713-392-0093 24 106/114 The Fireside Houston, TX 1-713-496-6319 24 106/357 TMBBS Houston, TX 1-713-497-5433 24 106/108 Stormy Weather I Houston, TX 1-713-644-4345 96 106/113 The Opus Network Houston, TX 1-713-780-4153 24 106/386 Info Center Exchange Houston TX 1-713-872-4429 24 106/111 Shutterbug's OPUS Houston, TX 1-713-880-4329 24 103/507 Philosopher's Log Anaheim CA 1-714-535-1258 96 103/501 Mount Silverthorn Tustin, CA 1-714-544-3369 24 7:441/1 Lord Frog Of Swamp 1-715-362-3895 ? 013/1033 NY Transfer Staten Island, NY 1-718-448-2358 24 012/7 HPCUA Honolulu HI 1-808-422-8406 96 012/1 Aura Net Honolulu, HI 1-808-533-0190 24 130/5 CUSSNET UTA Arlington, TX 1-817-273-3966 24 366/38 Jolly Green Giant Shalimar, FL 1-904-651-3875 96 019/5 Micro Application El Paso TX 1-915-594-9738 24 381/201 Pro Link San Angelo, TX 1-915-944-2952 24 161/943 Eagle's Nest Sacramento, CA 1-916-334-2822 96 161/39 Nightline Mather AFB, CA 1-916-362-1755 24 161/11 The Byte Boutique Sacramento CA 1-916-483-8032 24 NAM VET Newsletter Page 92 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 161/5 River City II OPUS Sacramento, CA 1-916-646-9678 96 161/34 Now and Zen OPUS Fair Oaks CA 1-916-962-1952 96 151/601 VMC-BBS Winston-Salem NC 1-919-744-0883 24 151/100 NC Central Raleigh, NC 1-919-851-8460 96 151/1000 REDCON Raleigh, NC 1-919-859-3353 96 632/350 Yarra Valley BBS Melbourne AU 61-3-848-331 12 NAM VET Newsletter Page 93 Volume 4, Number 1 January 7, 1990 Some Gave ALL ... Some Still Give!!! O O O SOME GAVE ALL ... ________O__________________________________O______________ ! O O ! ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia ! ! O O ! ! ~~~~~ ~ ~ O~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~~ ~ ~~ O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O) / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ / / O \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~ / PRISONER / \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~~ ~~ / OF /\ \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ / / \ IN \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~ / WAR / ~~ \ \ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / ~ ~~ \ ACTION / ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ! ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow ! !__________________________________________________________! NAM VET Newsletter Page 94