Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 . __ . . -*- N A M V E T -*- ____/ \_ . . ( * \ . . G. Joseph Peck \ Quangtri . . Managing Editor \_/\ \_ Hue . . \_Ashau Phu Bai . . Todd C. Looney - Chief, Emeritus \_* \_ . . \ * ) . . Jerry Hindle _/ Danang . . Distribution Manager ( \_*Chu Lai . . \_ ------- \__ . . Section Editors \_ I Corps \ . . --------------- \ ------- ! . . PTSD: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. /\_____ ! . . AGENT ORANGE: Martin H. Kroll, Sr. / ! \ . . MIA-POW: Rick Stolz ! !___ \ . . Glenn Toothman ! \/\____! . . HOMELESSNESS: Lefty Frizzell ! ! . . FEDERAL BENEFITS: Jim Hildwine / Dak To ! . . INCARCERATED VETS: Todd C. Looney / * / . . Joyce Flory ! \_ . . MEMORIALS: Aaron Schmiedel ! Phu Cat\ . . MEMORIES: G. Joseph Peck \ * * ) . . CHAPLAIN: Rev. Ed Brant \ Pleiku ) . . -**- N A M V E T -**- \ \ . . / / . . "In the jungles of 'Nam, some of us ( -------- ! . . were scared and wary, but we pulled _\ II Corps ! . . one another along and were able / -------- \ . . to depend on each other. That has \ \ . . never changed. Today, free of the ! * / . . criticisms and misunderstandings _/ Nhatrang / . . many veterans have endured, _/ / . . NAM VET is a shining beacon, __/ ! . . a ray of hope, and a _ __/ \ ! . . reminder that the _____( )/ ! Camranh Bay . . lessons learned / !__ ! . . at such a high / \ / . . price shall not \ Bien Hoa \ / . . be forgotten - ! Chu Chi * \ __/ . . nor the errors \_ * --------- \ ___/ . . repeated!!!" ____ \ III Corps \ _/ . . / \_____) )_(_ --------- !__/ Duplication in . . ! ( ___/ any form permitted . . _____! \__ * ___/ for NONCOMMERCIAL . . ! Saigon/ purposes ONLY! . . \___ -------- / \/ . . \ IV Corps / For other use, contact: . . ) -------- / G. Joseph Peck, Managing Editor . . / ! P O Box 2056 Pittsfield, MA 01202 . . / ____/ (413) 442-1660 . . / Mekong/ . . ! Delta/ This newsletter is comprised of articles . . ! ____/ and items from individuals and other . . ! / sources. We are not responsible for the . . ! / content of this information nor are any of . . ! __/ NAM VETs contributors or Section Editors. . . \_/ gjp . . . NAM VET Newsletter Page i Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S 1. EDITORIALS Conflict and growth!!! .................................. 1 Update from the Valhalla ................................ 3 New MIA-POW Section Editor Says "Hello" ................. 4 Distribution of NamVet .................................. 6 A "start" for our Incarcerated Brothers/Sisters ......... 8 Agent Orange Update .................................... 10 2. Agent Orange Vietnam Veterans to Benefit from VA Ruling .............. 12 The DVA's Orange Colored Glasses ........................ 14 Break out the Clearsil ! ............................ 17 A Veterans' Clear Window ................................ 18 Agent Orange Grant Awarded .............................. 21 3. We know THIS language Vietnam Era Glossary .................................... 22 Remember? ............................................... 30 4. Veteran Benefits & Info DVA To Study Benefit Reforms ............................ 34 VA CLAIMS PROCESSING STILL SHORTAGE-PLAGUED ............. 35 Back Pay for Veterans - Revisited ....................... 37 Questions of the VA .................................... 39 VA Still Short! ......................................... 41 Call for Increased VA Budget ............................ 42 5. Missing!!! Homecoming II Project ................................... 44 LIVE POWs reported! ..................................... 47 MIA: San Dewayne Francisco .............................. 62 MIA: James Albert Champion .............................. 63 MIA: Michael Louis Laporte ............................. 65 MIA: Timothy Roy Bodden ................................ 67 They haven't forgutten US!!! ............................ 69 6. 'Nam Today... Boat People in Hong Kong ................................ 70 Campaign Formed To End US Khmer Rouge Support ........... 75 Peace Brigades International in SE Asia ................. 78 7. Remember Them!!! Vietnam -- The Forgotten Warriors ....................... 79 Interview a Vet - Behind Bars ........................... 82 A visit or note once in awhile? ......................... 86 Bridge To Nowhere ....................................... 87 8. When the Chaplain whispers... PTSD: ANGER (FEAR, MANIPULATIVE, WITHDRAWN, NUMB) ....... 89 The Electronic Chapel ................................... 93 9. Here comes Murphy Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations ...................... 94 10. Hearts & Minds Taps .................................................... 96 Life Goes On ............................................ 97 11. Notices of Interest Veteran Amputees? ....................................... 100 USS Liberty Reunion ..................................... 101 Vet does Army CV-2 / USAF C-7 Caribou Research .......... 102 Info on Cerebral Malaria??? ............................. 104 Help for Homeless Vets? ................................. 105 Agent Orange Project for children of Vietnam Veterans ... 106 Lake County, IL Mini-Wall Schedule ...................... 107 Finally Here!!! ......................................... 108 12. Concentrated Service Veteran Service Commissioners/Directors ................. 109 Concentrated Service .................................... 111 Congressman Responds to Service Request ................. 112 13. IVVEC & NamVet - WHERE? Parameters of IVVEC and NODELIST ........................ 113 NamVet Roll Call ........................................ 118 Some Gave All... ........................................ 120 NAM VET Newsletter Page ii Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= E D I T O R I A L S ================================================================= Conflict and growth!!! by: G. Joseph Peck NamVet's Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 It's been a super-busy month here at VETLink #1!!! From all corners of the U.S. we've been hearing "Yes! We want NamVet!!! Please help us get it!" Well, thanks to our Distribution Manger, Jerry Hindle (a NamVet Salute and thanx for a job done well to ya, bro') and the many, many of you "out there" who are willing to call and upload it to your nearby BBS's (THANX!!!), NamVet can be found in almost every US state and in parts of Canada and Australia. We're growing -- and YOU helped us!!! It isn't only NamVet that's been growing. I finally found a job! A very-welcome paycheck is beginning to weakly roll in... 'er... roll in weekly (that's the ticket!) and maybe, just maybe, my family and I will manage to save our house/home and get a few back bills paid. Betchya I got the cleanest hands in Pittsfield, MA too... the "job" is a dishwasher's job at a local truckstop! Honest work; fun to do; helps the family; and helps ME think a little better about myself (thanx all you guys n' gals out there who said "take anything for now" ... it really has a side benefit that I never thought of!). 'Course, since my hours are 3-11pm, it does require a little readjustment for our family and it does take a tad bit of time away from VETLink #1... but the rewards are well worth it! You'll notice in this issue that we have another Section Editor (if we keep addin' Section Editors we'll soon have to do a separate page just to list them!) for our MIA-POW section: Rick Stolz. He's the SysOp of the Reunion BBS in Okauchee, Wisconsin. I've called his BBS and I'm really super-impressed with the amount of detailed work he's done to make all the MIA-POW information available to Reunion BBS users. The articles he's submitted for this month are only SAMPLES of what he's done. If ya get a few extra moments (and a few MA-BELL pennies) ya might wanna call the Reunion BBS and see what he's done. Speakin' of Section Editors... Our Agent Orange Section Editor Martin H Kroll, Sr. (see Martin... I got the middle initial write this time ) has done one outstanding job of keeping right on top of what's been happening with the Agent Orange issue - from writing about it to the highest levels of our government to grabbing the attention of a national veterans' organization. Jim Hildwine has been doing a SUPER job of getting to us all the veterans' benefit information he can come up with - and was even responsible for helping us FINALLY to get on the mailing list of the DVA's Office of Public Affairs. Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor(s) Todd Looney and Joyce Flory have also been doin' a LOT of seemingly thankless legwork to "get the word out" to Commissioners and Directors of Veterans' Affairs, veterans' groups, and anybody who has a name and address of one of our NAM VET Newsletter Page 1 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 incarcerated (we've been hearing about it all the way up here!). Our PTSD Section Editor, Kathleen Kelly, has been doin' a LOT of work tryin' to help us look at the many sides that DO exist to questions and points-of-view. NamVets Chaplain, Ed Brant, has been doin' a lot of writin' that will help our many Christian veterans. And our Memorials Section Editor, Aaron Schmiedel, has been quite busy tryin' to get some stuff up to us (I've seen your message in the IVVEC, Aaron...) Many of you that have called VETLink #1 in the past few weeks have noted that there's some changes going on there, too. MASSIVE changes!!! We're in the process of installing a newer version of our LYNX BBS (Called OSIRIS) and Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc. (VETLink #1's sponsor) has just purchased an even newer, nicer BBS that has the capabilities of an on-line database to display infor- mation concerning MIAs, POWs, Veteran Benefits in YOUR city/state, ALL the NamVets to-date, etc. Additionally, once everything is set up and in-place, we'll hopefully be adding an on-line Vietnam Veterans Bookstore! We're still clearing up some mites that have cropped up in the mail processing section and I hope that all our downstream nodes will keep us posted if there's ANYTHING wrong at all with any of the mail they receive from us. Springtime... a time of the year when Christians commemorate Easter and the beginning of new life; when Jews celebrate their long ago escape from Egypt; when the world rejoices at deliverance from the harsh bite of winter and applauds the promise held in the new buds suddenly appearing on trees and plants, the tiny eggs found in the robin's nest, and envisions a gentle summer. Springtime in the IVVEC isn't too much different!!! 'til next month... Show a brother or sister veteran that YOU care!!! Ci'ao for Ni'ao - Joe - NAM VET Newsletter Page 2 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Update from the Valhalla By: Todd Looney NAM VETs Chief - Emeritus Vietnam Veterans Valhalla - San Jose, CA (408) 737-2402 (Mail Only) There have been numerous issues in my life during the past year which have nearly made it impossible for me to continue operating in any capacity of responsibility at all, and I would like to thank each and every one of you who have demonstrated patience beyond belief at times (and most certainly beyond anything *I* have demonstrated!). Things are slowly looking better though. For the past three months or so I have at least been able to get a system up and running for e-mail purposes, and even though that has not been entirely successful, it smoothed things out a little bit. I have a new PC being donated by Frenchy which should arrive very shortly. I have my old hard drive with the old Valhalla Opus system still installed and all (or most of) the old files which made it the service it was. I still have to pick up a monitor for it but that should not be too difficult. When that happens I'll install my old faithful USR 2400 modem so that even Joe Peck can communicate with me (grin). Hopefully that will cure most of the problems with regard to operations anyway, and we can give Joe that long deserved break he's been waiting for. I feel really badly about the way things have been during the past year or so, but there has been little I could do to prevent most of it. Thanks to a lot of therapy through both the VA's Vet Centers as well as private sources I am able to cope with life once again, and getting better every day. I really look forward to helping manage the NAM VET again and going through the trials and tribulations of making sure that each release is put together on time and with the care it deserves. Joe has, and still is, doing a spectacular job despite the issues which have been plaguing him and his family... I owe him, and many of you, a lot of thanks for standing by me when I'm sure you were wondering if there was any chance in hell for me. Ciao for Niao Todd Looney NAM VET Newsletter Page 3 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Introducing our second MIA-POW Section Editor RICK STOLZ by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 Please let me introduce myself, I'm a man of little wealth, or fame. Well that's over with. I have been asked to be Assistant Editor of NamVet's MIA/POW section. For better or worse I don't know, so here goes. Service: '66-68 Branch: Army Signal Corps VietNam 4/67 - 7/68 43rd Signal Bn Central Highlands Presently I am sysop of Reunion BBS located in Wisconsin. The Board is to assist Veterans of all Era's but since I am a Vietnam Vet that is where I have concentrated most of the resources. There would not be a Reunion BBS if it weren't for the gracious help of others. Publicly now I would like to thank them: My Wife Sue, who has not seen me off the computer for two months; Chuck Schantag of POW Network; Loren Levson; LZ Birmingham who spent time and resources helping and encouraging me in their belief of the need for the board. Also those that helped without their knowing about it: Britt Small and Festival; Chuck and Mary Howard of Project Omega; and those from HomeComing II. What we have at the Reunion BBS is primarily Databases for and about VietNam Vets. There is a Locator database that you can search for vets that you might know. It is a true database that is very fast and efficient. I am hoping in the future to be able to have access to a larger database and just act as a hub. POW/MIA database; With Biographies on over 2000 MIA/POWs. This is an official DIA records database. If someone said that they where a POW it is here. It lists people that where POW's for as little as a few hours. If they ain't here then they weren't POW's. The MIA's area lists even foreign nationals and covers all of Southeast Asia, the men lost in Cambodia, or Laos. Makes no difference. When someone says that the sightings of POW's are only people that wanted to stay there because they went AWOL, just tell them that there are only 18 officially listed as AWOL and that there have been sightings of 20 or more in one group. I will be adding a Reunions database as soon as the files are edited to Dbase. It will have over 1800 reunions that can be searched, to find out if there is a reunion planned for your unit. I expect to have it up by the middle of April. That about says it all for myself, and the board that I can think of for now. I am new to this so if there are suggestions NAM VET Newsletter Page 4 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 please feel free to submit them. The purpose of the Reunion BBS, though, is to bring our MIA/POWs home, and never forget that until they are all back, there is still unfinished business there. You where called on once to do an unpleasant job. If they would have let you do it the way you were supposed to do it and cut out all the diplomacy crap, the list of KIA, MIA, and Pow's wouldn't be so long. Now there is another job to do: to put pressure on the government to get their ass in gear to bring the MIA/POWs home, to let them know that you will not forget that there are still over 3500 reasons not to forget, and to tell them that you will never let them sweep this under the rug like they have done in the past. Traditionally we are not joiners. We have been conditioned not to jump into things. But when the chips are down there was never a doubt that you could be counted on to do the job. Now after 20+ years we are still being called on to bring our brothers and sisters home to live, or to rest in peace - the peace that we still haven't found, the peace that will heal our wounds, cleanse our souls, and allow us to again trust in our fellow man. We are a minority in this country. Why should there be any cry from the majority to bring our people home? They didn't want us when we came back alive. How can you tell someone that thinks Jane Fonda is a hero that it is important to us to see that our brothers and sisters be brought home. It must be fate that we are to fight throughout our lives, that no ground comes easy, that we must always walk point. In this month's newsletter I will try to make the faceless names more real to you by listing the names by state. If you see that there are so many from your state that didn't come back, then there might be more of an understanding, and MIA/POW might be more personal. I will also start to print Personal Biographies on one branch per issue per month. Lets hope that I wont have to print them all. 'til they come home, we aren't home yet.................... Rick%%% NAM VET Newsletter Page 5 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Distribution of NamVet By: Jerry Hindle NamVets Distribution Manager M.R.M.S. Mk VII (7:48/0.0) (7:48/0) Memphis, Tennessee I will be handling the distribution of the namvet newsletter from now on and would like to set up some sort of guidelines for its distribution to any systems wanting it. These rules are fairly simple and will not involve any great inconvience to you, nor will it cost you anything. 1st --- The NAMVET NEWSLETTER will not be restricted by politics within any network. Simply put this means that wherever it is needed it will go. If this conflicts with any nets policy concerning file distribution then all means for working out an agreement (short of modifying my system) will be attempted, however failing that I will continue to send it to anyone who wants it. 2nd --- While I am willing to send it to you I ain't rich by any means. Please be sure your system is crash mailable and will accept mail from my system which is in ALTERNET. This means that those of you running fidonet only systems will need to be sure your system accepts mail from "unlisted" systems, otherwise your end will keep hanging up on my mailer when I attempt to call. 3rd --- While HST connections are preferred, I will send to slower modems or modems like the trailblazer. If you are in a net where there is already a system set up to receive the namvet newsletter, you will be directed to that sysop for a feed. There is NO reason for me to send it to two systems in the same net no matter what the reasons. If there are 2 systems in the same net the system with the HST gets prefference as that is the faster method for me. 4th --- Overseas distribution is being thought of and will be accomodated if I can find the funds. If you are willing to poll for the newsletter and can live with "talking to" an Alternet system, then let me know and we will set it up for you. CANADA is not considered overseas, it is considered to be part of CONUS as far as the telephone is concerned and thus falls under the first three rules. 5th --- And finally if you want the newsletter and can netmail an alterent system then send netmail to 7:48/0 asking for a feed. In that message you will need to tell me the following: net/node number (complete with zone) (ie 7:48/0 or 1:123/7) I presently run fidonet and alterent nodelists and will be adding eggnet and any other "nets" I think are needed to my nodelist. YOUR NAME & VOICE NUMBER I can reach you at in the evenings what type of modem you have (name brand and speed) whether you can accept "crash mail" or not (are you a CM system) NAM VET Newsletter Page 6 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 what hours you operate in mail mode if you are NOT a CM system will your system talk to a SEADOG Mailer (ie you are NOT and FD199B or D'Bridge system without sealink protocol). If you are running either D'Bridge or FrontDoor ver 199B then I will have to try a test shot to you to see if my mailer will talk to yours before I attempt to send the full newsletter. Simple enough, I will handle the rest from here and if I need to contact you I will call you at the number you give me. Like I said I ain't rich by any means but am trying to do my bit. Please let's not go overboard with this. I can handle 20 - 30 systems each month and allow FReq's of the newsletter every day except during NMH. THX Jerry Hindle NAM VET Newsletter Page 7 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 "A Start..." Input by: Joyce Flory NAM VETs Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM (505) 523-2811 The following is an update on my progress and a copy of a letter I got from one of our incarcerated. Here's the latest on my quest for finding that illusive list of incarcerated vets. I've gotten word from Craig McLaren and am awaiting the 6th edition of his list of incarcerated vet groups. I am told this covers over 130 groups in over 39 states. When that list gets here I'll be VERY busy with my printer and probably wear out my tongue licking stamps :). I have also been in touch with George Herbert, VVA Chapter 294. I got a form letter from 4-A-MATCH and they are more visit-oriented than letter writing. I am still being shuffled around in Albany, but think I MAY be getting somewhere, at long last. I have gotten 2 letters from Whitmarsh Bailey, one of the incarcerated vets who's address I've left in my updates. He has provided 3 more names for our list. Jerry Baack #57098 Chris S. Crespin #45523 Dennis E. Prentiss #43497 Any or all may be contacted at P.O. box R (prison #) Buena Vista,Co. 81211 As always,if you have a group for me to contact or think you may have an address I could use,leave it on the Echo, at 1:305/105, or 1825 Evelyn, Las Cruces, NM 88001. I was given permission to copy the following by Whitmarsh Bailey. He says his story is typical of the other vets he is incarcerated with. "Dear Joyce Flory 3/5/90 It was a great surprise to get a letter from you. I'm very glad that some people are taking time to care about incarcerated Vietnam Vets. There are about 10 Vietnam Veterans here at this prison. I went around last night and asked all of them if they were interested but only got 3 names for you. I showed your letter and put in a pitch. Most of the guys said that they wanted to write single women,but to me it doesn't matter. A few didn't like the typed letter they said it should be more personal, which I agree. If you know anything about Vietnam Vets, it's hard for them to open up to people. I know it's hard for me. I will keep trying for you and maybe I will get a few more names for you. Here are the names: Jerry Baack #57098 Chris S. Crespin #45523 Dennis E Prentiss #43497 All have the same address,make shore that the DOC (Department of Corrections) number is on the envelope. NAM VET Newsletter Page 8 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Now a little bit about myself. Well I was in the Army and was in Vietnam in 1970 and 71 and was with the 101st and the 196th and yes I was a Grunt, that's enough of that. I'm 38 years old and was born and raised in Charleston, S.C. I was married for 16 years, but divorced now. There are 2 girls, Lori 17 and Stephane 15. Both of them are under the care of Social Services. That hurts me and I fight with the courts all the time trying for visits, pictures, reports and phone calls. I was arrested in 1986 for 2nd Degree attempted murder (16 year sentence). I was living in Rifle, Co. and was working at the Union Oil, oil shale plant in Parachute. I was a pipe welder and had been welding for about 15 years. Really it was one of the best jobs that I had ever had in my life. Plus raising the kids in a small town really helped alot. There are alot of programs here at the prison that help everybody but there aren't any programs for Vietnam Veterans. I have been diagnosed as having PTSD and get a disability for it, none of the other vets get this and have no way of getting this because there is no one to help them. Don't get me wrong we really have tried, it's just Colorado they don't care one bit. It's a shame to, because most of the vets are in prison on crimes that there crime directs from Vietnam. Drug problems, Killings everything. There are thousands of us in prisons around the country and no one is looking at us and no one even cares. We need help and the lawmakers need to take into account that the Vietnam Vet has been through alot and do make mistakes and prison isn't the answer. There are hospitals and vet groups, in and out patient treatment that would help more than being locked up. Well things that I like to do. Watch TV, sports and good movies, working in Arts and crafts where I make belt buckle and I keep my mine and hands busy and that makes the time go by faster. All of this has been hard for me, I am honored to be writing to you because I know that you care. Maybe when we get to know each other better we can exchange pictures and things like that. Even you might even be able to find an unmarried lady for me to write. New Mexico isn't that far from Colorado and you never know what might happen. You take care of yourself and that family of your. I wish you the best in life and hope to hear from you soon. I feel that we will get to be good friends. Thanks for the lift. Sincerely, Whitmarsh Bailey P.S. We should be on first name basis, everybody calls me "Whit". Thanks again, Joyce" NAM VET Newsletter Page 9 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Agent Orange Update By: Martin H. Kroll NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705 (404) 695-8703 Recent announcements by the Veterans Administration and other government officials are beginning to shine a ray of hope towards Vietnam veterans who have health problems due to "service in Vietnam." Please note that I did not say due to exposure to Agent Orange. Although it has now been officially recognized that there is a link between service in Vietnam and certain cancers, the VA has fallen short of admitting that Agent Orange exposure has caused many of the Vietnam veteran's ills. It has been announced that payments will be made to veterans suffering from certain cancers and illnesses connected to duty in Vietnam. Disability classifications will be forthcoming with the possibility of some veterans receiving as much as $1500 per month and some dependents of deceased Vietnam veterans receiving up to approximately $500 per month. Based upon past actions of the government and the VA, I am curious to see just how this will be handled and the criteria for determining who will be eligible and who will not. We must recognize at this point that not everyone in government and the Department of Veterans Affairs is afraid to speak out on the issues and yes, there are some very fine people working for the cause of Vietnam veterans and their families. There are still those though that continue the battle against us and refuse to admit the harm of Agent Orange and the plight of Vietnam veterans that were exposed to Agent Orange. Since reaching middle age, many veterans have indeed become prosperous and influential and more will continue to join their ranks in the next ten to twenty years. They are being heard and are gaining support on an almost daily basis now and the time is coming when the evidence will be so overwhelming that the government will no longer be able to drag their feet on the Agent Orange issue and will be forced to take the actions that should have been taken years ago. Namely, doing whatever is necessary to provide health care and benefits for those that deserve it. The government's reluctance to admit the Agent Orange link leads me to believe that there is a lot more to the issue than meets the eye. We can not forget that Vietnam veterans were not the only ones affected by the spraying of Agent Orange. Also affected were the countless number of Vietnamese civilians who also had no choice in the matter. Then you must consider all of their children and grandchildren. If our government is finally forced into admitting that the spraying of Agent Orange was a drastic mistake and has affected the health of a nation of civilians as well as our veterans, what will the legal and moral ramifications be? We should remember also that most Vietnam veterans did get to come home to the USA after a year or so of duty but most Vietnamese civilians were stuck there in areas that had been saturated with herbicides. I think that it is obvious that the United States cannot afford to provide health care and benefits on such a scale as this. I am not certain that there would even be any legal recourse that NAM VET Newsletter Page 10 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Vietnam could seek but the thought comes to my mind when I question the reasons that our government has prolonged this issue for so long. They continue to spout "lack of scientific evidence" and "lack of conclusive proof" in light of the fact that many veterans of wars past have been justly awarded disabilities and benefits based upon much less evidence than has been presented in the Agent Orange issue. I for one do not care to sacrifice their health and continue to deny my brother and sister veterans what is justifiably and morally due them because our government made a mistake. Mistakes can be put behind us and in some cases even forgiven but not as long as there is a refusal to admit that mistake and take corrective action. To those officials that still cling to the "no scientific evidence" theory and are so certain that Agent Orange did not affect our veterans health, I have an interesting proposal. Since it is obvious that you were probably never exposed to Agent Orange I think that you would make perfect subjects for a new scientific study that would lay this issue to rest once and for all. Let us develop a viable criteria for a new "scientific study" and since you are so convinced that Agent Orange is harmless, you should then have no qualms about volunteering to be exposed to Agent Orange under controlled circumstances for a period of at least one year. We could then drag this thing out for many more years while we compare the findings of your control group with those of Vietnam veterans and even non-veteran control groups that have not been exposed. If you are willing to do this then your claims may begin to gain a little credibility. If you are not willing to do this then it is time for you to do some very serious soul searching and question your values and morals! Brother and sister veterans, we are gaining momentum and if you have not joined in voicing your opinions and demanding that justice be served now is the time to do so. I urge you to flood Congress, the Senate, the VA, and the White House with your letters stating your concerns. The fire has been smoldering for years and now it begins to get just a little hotter. I urge you, fuel the fire! Martin H. Kroll, Vietnam Veteran 1966-67 NAM VET Newsletter Page 11 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= A g e n t O r a n g e ================================================================= VIETNAM VETERANS TO BENEFIT FROM VA RULING Department of Veterans Affairs Office of Public Affairs - News Service Washington, DC 20420 (202) 233-2741 Input by: G. Joseph Peck NAM VETs Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 Washington, Mar. 29 -- Secretary of Veterans Affairs Edward J. Derwinski, following personal consultation with President Bush, today ruled that Vietnam veterans stricken with a rare form of cancer are entitled to disability payments based on their service in Vietnam. Derwinski said he determined that "there is at the present time enough information for me to give the benefit of the doubt to Vietnam veterans and direct that VA conclude that the disease non- Hodgkin's lymphoma is service-connected with duty in Vietnam." Derwinski said his decision reflects the President's personal concern for veterans whose health may have been affected by military duty. The VA Secretary acted following today's release of study results by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control that showed an increased risk of the disease among veterans who served in Vietnam. The CDC reported that the risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma is 50 percent greater among Vietnam veterans than among veterans who served elsewhere, although it did not point to Agent Orange or any other factor as causing the elevated risk. Agent Orange was sprayed from 1965 to 1970 in Vietnam to destroy enemy crops and ground cover. Derwinski said his decision was not based solely on scientific conclusions or the lack of them. "I am exercising my authority... to make a determination that in my judgment there is enough information to give Vietnam veterans the benefit of the doubt regarding non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and its connection to service in Vietnam." Last May, Derwinski announced he would not appeal a federal court ruling that said VA's cause-and-effect standards were too strict for VA to be in compliance with a 1984 law governing dioxin and radiation claims. Dioxin is a poisonous contaminant that was found in Agent Orange and which some allege causes a variety of health problems. Using a new "significant statistical association" standard, the Veterans Advisory Committee on Environmental Hazards last fall reviewed 31 studies and their relationship to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and reported that while no association could be definitively made, it could not rule out the possibility." NAM VET Newsletter Page 12 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 VA officials announced they would immediately begin to identify and re-open claims filed by veterans who served in Southeast Asia and who alleged that their development of non-Hodgkins lymphoma resulted from Agent Orange exposure. VA years ago established a policy that makes it unnecessary for veterans to prove actual exposure as long as their service record validated in-country Vietnam service. Derwinski said VA will extend as much latitude as possible to award health-care services to Vietnam veterans who believed their health was affected by Agent Orange exposure. VA has also conducted a program offering free comprehensive physical examinations to veterans. More than 230,000 have taken advantage of the program and a registry containing their addresses will be used to make follow-up contact concerning Derwinski's ruling. On May 16, the advisory committee is scheduled to review studies dealing with herbicide exposure and another group of cancers including soft-tissue sarcoma, and porphyria cutanea tarda, a non- fatal liver ailment. Subsequent meetings will address other health issues. NAM VET Newsletter Page 13 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 The DVA's Orange Colored Glasses Input By: Martin H. Kroll NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705 (404) 695-8703 VETERANS ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY WASHINGTON, D.C. 20420 March 14, 1990 Mr. Martin H. Kroll Rt. 7, Box 7702 Chatsworth, Ga. 30705 Dear Mr. Kroll, Your letter to the President regarding Agent Orange was recently referred to this office for response. You mentioned that you and a friend were speculating whether the President would personally read and reply to your letter. We have no way of knowing whether the President actually saw your correspondence. Thousands of letters are received at the White House daily. It would be impossible for the President, with all his respons- ibilities, to read more than a handful of these letters. A large volume of mail is referred to the department or agency with the experience and expertise to respond substantively to each inquiry. Letters are not referred because of any lack of interest by the President or his staff but rather to ensure that the best and most meaningful response possible is prepared. You obviously are totally convinced that Agent Orange damaged your health and caused medical problems for most, if not all, Vietnam veterans. You declared that you are "disgusted with the way our Government has handled the Agent Orange issue" presumably because our actions do not correspond with your beliefs. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) actions on this issue are based on scientific evidence. Despite what you may have heard or read, scientific investigations have not demonstrated that veterans have medical problems that were caused or worsened by exposure to Agent Orange. Notwithstanding the lack of evidence that Agent Orange has caused health problems, VA has developed a multi-faceted program to respond to the concerns expressed by many Vietnam veterans. Since 1978, we have offered a free comprehensive medical exami- nation to all Vietnam veterans who are worried about the possible long-term health effects of exposure to herbicides. This examination is provided at VA health care facilities across the Nation. More than two hundred thousand Vietnam veterans have participated in our examination program, known as the VA Agent Orange Registry. Many of the veterans participating in the examination program have questions regarding Agent Orange. Scientific research is essential to respond to these concerns. For many years, VA has NAM VET Newsletter Page 14 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 been pursuing studies, providing financial assistance for investigations by others, and reviewing and analyzing scientific literature on this subject. While some questions have been essentially answered, others persist. Studies of the possible effects of herbicides on Vietnam veterans are ongoing and will continue into the twenty-first century. We recognize that examinations and research, while of critical importance, are not enough to meet the needs of some Vietnam veterans with serious health problems. Va provides priority medical treatment to Vietnam veterans for disabilities possibly, but not necessarily, related to Agent Orange exposure. Thousands of Vietnam veterans have received necessary care under this priority program. VA also provides disability compensation to many Vietnam veterans. To be eligible for these monthly payments, a veteran must have an injury or illness that was incurred in or aggravated by military service. You urged a "massive" Agent Orange publicity campaign via television, radio, newspapers, and magazines. It is our opinion that there has been a great deal of publicity on this issue during the past decade. Unfortunately, much of the information was erroneous or misleading. VA has taken steps, where possible, to correct or clarify this misinformation. We have produced a newsletter (450,000 copies of the most recent issue were printed), a fact sheet series, several videotapes, an exhibit, several monographs, a multi-volume report of herbicide scientific literature (fourteen volumes published to date), and a non- technical language synopsis of scientific literature. In addi- tion, a number of articles by VA scientists have been published in professional journals. Notice of meetings of our advisory committees are published well in advance of the meeting dates to allow ample public participation. Enclosed are copies of our most recent newsletter, fact sheet series, and poster. While we may not be doing as much as you might like, we think that we are doing a great deal. Our public information campaign is somewhat restrained by the lack of conclusive scientific evidence linking the problems of Vietnam veterans to Agent Orange. It would be a serious disservice to Vietnam veterans if we would abruptly launch a nationwide campaign in view of the unproven dangers of Agent Orange. On the other hand, if research efforts reveal that Agent Orange is causing health problems, we would be obligated to communicate this information expeditiously. Your idea regarding providing an exemption for Vietnam veterans from a percentage of Federal income taxation is very interesting. This proposal would compensate all Vietnam veterans for "pain and suffering due to exposure to Agent Orange." Unlike the VA disability compensation program, under the plan that you propose, veterans who have no medical problems whatsoever would benefit along with those with severe disabilities. In fact, those who are the most prosperous economically and therefore pay a great deal of income tax seem to receive the greatest benefit from your proposal. Veterans who are in poor health tend to suffer financially as well. Since Congress must approve any changes in NAM VET Newsletter Page 15 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 the tax laws, you may wish to share your ideas with your Senators and your Representatives. We can certainly understand your feelings that Vietnam veterans have been shortchanged. Many people who share this view have written to us during the past few years. Please be assured that VA is doing all it can to help these veterans. Indeed, service to America's veterans and their survivors is our only mission. Sincerely yours, Lawrence B. Hobson, M.D., Ph.D. Director, Environmental Medicine Office Enclosure NAM VET Newsletter Page 16 Volume 4, Number 4 April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xxx _ -. . - .-. - . . . . - XXXXXxxXXXXXXXXXXXx -. - .- . - . . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX-. .--. - .- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -.- - -.- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -. -. -. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx .g -. -. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .- j. .- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX . p .-. XXXXXXXX ]XXXXXXXXX ]XXXXXXXX .- - -. XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXX -.- - -- XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX -- - XXXXXXXXX X'`XXX XXXXXXX Y Y XXXXXXXXX XXXXX XXX XXXXXXX X X XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXX XXX XX X XXX XX XX XXXX XX XXX XX XX XX XXXX XXX]XXXXXXXXXXXX XXX[ XX XX XXX XXXXXXXXXX " I t ' s o n l y t e e n a g e a c n e ! " -Robert Nimmo- NAM VET Newsletter Page 17 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 A Veterans' Clear Window By: Martin H. Kroll NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705 (404) 695-8703 April 2, 1990 Martin H. Kroll, Sr. REFER TO - 10B/AO Rt. 7 Box 7702 Chatsworth, Ga. 30705 Lawrence B. Hobson, M.D., Ph.D. Director, Environmental Medicine Office Veterans Administration Department of Medicine and Surgery Washington, D.C. 20420 Dear Dr. Hobson, Thank you for your reply to my letter addressed to President Bush. I also appreciate the enclosures that were included. I understand that the President is a very busy person and letters such as mine are referred to the appropriate departments for response. You stated "Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) actions on this issue (Agent Orange) are based on scientific evidence. Despite what you may have heard or read, scientific investigations have not demonstrated that veterans have medical problems that were caused or worsened by exposure to Agent Orange." It seems to me and many Vietnam veterans that the VA's most difficult problem with completing a so called "scientific investigation" lies not with the facts of the toxicity of Agent Orange, but rather with the alleged inability to verify by military records whether or not individual veterans were exposed to Agent Orange. There has been much scientific evidence released proving the link between herbicide exposure and lymphatic cancer, and also other health problems. The National Cancer Institute and the University of Kansas report that farmers and workers exposed to herbicides are 600% more likely to contact lymphatic than people who were not exposed,(HOAR, 86). The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) considers "any" exposure to dioxin toxic to humans, (NIOSH Bulletin # 40, 1984). "MILHAM, 82" determined that exposure to herbicides may increase the risk of several serious cancers. "SHARON RICE-GRANT,86" determined that over 30% of women Vietnam veterans who had pregnancies also had one or more mis- carriages or stillbirths. This study also revealed that "more" than 50% of the women Vietnam veterans have had a hysterectomy! The list goes on and on... and of course we are expected to believe that none of this information is based upon scientific evidence and that the Doctors and Scientists involved in these studies did not know what they were talking about. The facts are in! There is evidence to show that the chemical companies and the government knew about the potential NAM VET Newsletter Page 18 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 health hazards of dioxin as early as 1957. Nine years later the government undertook a massive spraying program in Vietnam. Military and Civilian personnel in Vietnam were exposed to dioxin and other chemicals through multiple exposure routes, e.g., inhalation and dermal exposure from spray and spraying drift; ingestion of contaminated food and water; inhalation from burning brush which would likely release dioxin by pyrolysis of 2,4,5-t; breathing and ingestion of contaminated dust; and in some cases, the use of discarded pesticide drums for stoves, heaters, showers and storage containers. I would also like to refer you to two articles in the February 1990 issue of the American Legion Magazine. "Bad Science", and "Speak No Evil". I find it abhorrent that the VA and the CDC have contradicted themselves so many times and have hidden "facts" from the public. I find it even more disgusting that the VA's Advisory Committee on Environmental Hazards has established a set of criteria for judging studies that differ from the criteria used by other federal regulatory agencies such as the EPA and the International Agency for Research on Cancer, whose rules have served as models throughout the U.S. and the rest of the world! To top it all off, we now find that the committee includes a variety of experts that were hired by the industry to testify against people injured by dioxin. The committee's methods of "subtracting" four recent positive and valid studies for non- Hodgkins lymphoma and herbicides are no more than dastardly deceit and an attempt to cover up the truth! It was also your opinion that the VA has done a great deal of publicity on this issue in the past decade. As proof, you included a copy of the most recent Agent Orange newsletter of which 450,000 copies were printed. Based upon the fact that over 3,000,000 veterans served in Vietnam that would only be 1 copy for each 6 & 2/3rds veterans that served in Vietnam, with absolutely no copies left over for other interested civilians. Massive publicity? Not hardly! I am a Vietnam veteran myself and have "never" seen any of the material that you sent. I do, however, appreciate the nice poster urging Vietnam Vets to contact the nearest VA Medical Center if they are concerned about Agent Orange. It now hangs in my office and I also hung your letter right below it and highlighted in "Orange" the section where you stated that "scientific investigations have not demonstrated that veterans have medical problems that were caused or worsened by exposure to Agent Orange." Nice bit of "irony" isn't it? You stated "if research efforts reveal that Agent Orange is causing health problems, we would be obligated to 3. communicate this information expeditiously." What kind of "can of worms" would this open for the government? Obviously research efforts have revealed that Agent Orange causes health problems but yet we have no official word from the government. In light of the recent small victory by Vietnam veterans that linked Vietnam duty with lymphoma but stopped short of admitting that Agent Orange was the cause, I would like to point out that the fire is just now beginning to heat up & the battle is far from over. I would urge everyone in a position of trust and authority to uncover the truth and be done with it. Let's get on with the business of taking care of those veterans that served in Vietnam and their families. NAM VET Newsletter Page 19 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 It was interesting to note that you felt that my proposal to provide an exemption for Vietnam veterans was not quite fair to those veterans that are in poor health. It is those veterans that the VA and the government should be taking care of with no questions asked. You suggested that those veterans that are economically prosperous seem to receive the greatest benefit. Does this imply that you do not feel that prosperous veterans should be compensated for the years of rashes, illnesses, mental anguish, ruined clothing from cortisone cremes etc., and the expenses of various over the counter medications that they otherwise would not have had? You were correct though to point out that this was not your ball park and I may wish to share these ideas with my Senators and Representatives. Enclosed, you will find a copy of a letter I received from the VA dated Oct 11, 1972. I served in Vietnam in 66-67 and it was in Vietnam that I experienced my first skin problems. My medical records should attest to the fact that I had rawness of the skin after spraying of the perimeter of our camp. I was given medicated creams from the dispensary and continued to have this problem for many years mostly during the hottest part of the year. I never had a skin problem before going to Vietnam. I learned to live with this problem after never hearing from the VA although I sent in a notice of disagreement with their findings and never received the requested information pertaining to an appeal. Tests have shown that my hearing has become progressively worse over several years and I now have a sore that comes and goes on the back of my left thigh. I am concerned about Agent Orange, my own health, the well-being of my family, my brother and sister veterans, and the integrity of this great nation. Also enclosed is an ASCII Graphic that may interest you... Sincerely yours, Martin H. Kroll, Sr. Vietnam Veteran NAM VET Newsletter Page 20 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Agent Orange Grant Awarded Input by: Robert Knee -=[*] DE OPRESSO LIBER [*]=- 5th S.F. GRP. (1:105/204) Vietnam Veterans Agent Orange Victims, Inc. and The Bradie Schieb Children's Fund Orlando, FL. Amount Awarded: $101,800 (9/19/89) Area of Service: Nationwide Contact Person: Frank McCarthy (800) 842-2946 Vietnam Veterans Agent Orange Victims (VVAOVI) Inc., is awarded funding for a program to provide medical services, particularly corrective surgical services, for children of Vietnam Veterans born with medically correctable disabling conditions. VVAOVI will seek out such children and secure medical assessments of their conditions, and where appropriate, and in conjunction with the Brandie Schieb Children's Fund, arrange for surgical and other medical services which will enable those children to live more fully productive lives. The costs of medical services will be funded throught the AOCAP grant, with a small amount of additional funding being provided for operating the program. Duration of project: One year NAM VET Newsletter Page 21 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= W e k n o w T H I S l a n g u a g e ================================================================= Vietnam Era Glossary From: Vietnam Shared, 1987 Produced by: Operation Vets Haven Saranac Lake, New York Input by: G. Joseph Peck NamVet's Managing Editor Vetlink #1 Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 AO: Area of Operation(s) AGENT ORANGE: (Dioxin) was a defoliant used during much of the Vietnam War that was sprayed by aircraft during Operation Ranch Hand. The purpose of this agent was to denude the jungle so that the enemy had fewer places to hide. Late in the War it was discovered that the primary ingredient of Agent Orange was a chemical known as dioxin, which has been determined to be one of the most toxic substances known to mankind. Many veterans of the war were sprayed while in-country with the stuff, only to return home later to discover that they had many symptoms of severe and oftentimes fatal illness. The military stopped using the substance, but over the years there has been found a high incidence of mortality among Vietnam Veterans, accompanied by severe physical and mental aberrations. There is also evidence that shows there is a higher incidence of birth defects and brain damage among the children of Vietnam Veterans, suggesting that the effects of this substance are passed on to succeeding generations. Class action lawsuits have been filed against the US Government and the chemical companies that produced the stuff. While a settlement has been proposed, it is most certainly not adequate to address the problem. As of this time (11/87), neither the U.S. Government nor the Veteran's Administration, nor the chemical companies are admitting liability or taking responsibility for this matter, which has let many to state that the Vietnam War continues to be a legacy for children of Vets, and as such the War is still being waged. AK-47: 7.62mm NATO Automatic Weapon used by the Viet Cong and the NVA against U.S. Armed forces and the ARVN during the Vietnam War. Mainly of Chinese manufacture, though the USSR also made them. AMERASIAN: Descendants of US military personnel and Vietnamese, often shunned and scorned by their native people. APC: Armored Personnel Carrier. A vehicle for transporting ground troops, similar in construction to a tank. ARM: Armored; as in division, or equipment such as tanks, etc. AWOL: Absent Without Official Leave. ARVN: Army of the Republic of Vietnam (South) allied to US forces. NAM VET Newsletter Page 22 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 BAT: Battalion BATT: Battery BODY BAG: A black or grey plastic bag used to collect casualty remains for the purpose of shipping to either GRC, or for shipment stateside. See: GRC. BODY COUNT: The means by which winning battles was determined, as opposed to conquering territory, or capture. The Vietnam War of Attrition. To COMMAND, success was determined on the daily body- count. BUSTING CAPS: An expression used by some troops to fire their weapons, oftentimes as a prelude to a mission or firefight. CAV: Cavalry, as in the 1st. Cav., well-known combat force in Vietnam (US) CHARLIE: Also known as Charles, VC, Gook, etc. Refers to the Viet Cong, enemy of US and ARVN forces. See: Gook. CHOPPER: see Huey CIL: Central Identification Laboratory located in Hawaii. This laboratory was set up for the purpose of identifying unrecognizable soldier remains, that were war casualties. The laboratory is still functioning under military auspices, for the purpose of identifying remains that are returned from the Vietnamese Government. See: GRC. CINCPAC: Commander in Chief Pacific CINCPACFLT: Commander in Chief Pacific Fleet CO: Commanding Officer COMUSMACV: Commander, U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam CORPSMAN: See: MEDIC CP: Command Post DEROS: Date eligible for return from overseas. DMZ: Demilitarized Zone. The area of demarcation between North Vietnam and South Vietnam, established at the Geneva Accords of 1954, that effectively divided Vietnam in two. DP: Displaced Person FB: Firebase FSB: Fire Support Base FIREFIGHT: Engaging the enemy in battle, usually at night. It could be light or heavy, depending on enemy troop strength and armament. NAM VET Newsletter Page 23 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 FREE FIRE ZONE: A place where anyone (from the US point of view) was considered the enemy and would freely be fired upon as if they were the enemy. Anything that moved could and did get killed in this zone. Politics and command level decisions determined Free Fire Zones. FNG.: F*ckin' New Guy, also "Cherry, Newbie, New Meat, etc.", usually a term of derision applied to new recruits just assigned to Vietnam, who had not learned the ropes yet. Often New Guys were assigned to POINT, if they were combat troops. Mortality was high. If the New Guy survived his first six to eight weeks, he lost his "cherry", and was considered a vet. FRAG: Fragmentation Grenade. Also, to Frag. i.e. to kill another by use of this grenade. After a time, the term came to mean the process by which one soldier (or group) would kill another, usually of higher rank, for improprietous behavior. The victim was usually an officer who, usually inexperienced, endangered the lives of his men. Other means of "justifiable" homicide also constituted fragging; so-called "Friendly Fire" situations could also have been cover-ups for fragging incidents. Fraggings were almost invariably fatal, and left little evidence. FRIENDLY FIRE: Usually an accidental situation in which US troops fired upon their own men, as a result sometimes of the orders of higher command that could not read their grid maps correctly. Inexperienced officers (Ninety Day Wonders) on more than one occasion, caused casualties because of their inexperience. The situation was by no means rare, and many men died as a result. GOOK: (Charlies, VC, NVA. see: CHARLIE) a derogatory term applied to the enemy. It was also used to describe any Vietnamese person whose loyalty was in question or who was considered less than human. GRC: Graves Registration Company, attached to the Quartermaster Corps, whose primary responsibility was to prepare dead soldiers (tag & bag) to be returned home for burial. Two major facilities existed, one in Saigon, and the other in Da Nang. This very unpopular group of men cleaned, embalmed, and identified fatal casualties and otherwise took care of details in this connection, in order that as many remains as possible were returned home to their families. GRC had access to the best professionals in the field, including but not limited to, Pathologists, Forensic Experts, Toxicologists, Identification personnel, as well as the "line embalmers". This was a very much thankless job, though the participants usually were proud of their work and had great compassion for it. Their story is one that is rarely told. GREEN BERET: See SF. GRUNT: A line soldier or Marine who "humped the boonies". Combat or field soldier. GUNSHIP: An HU1B Huey helicopter, outfitted with armament, specially designed for ground assault. HANOI HILTON: Considered the most famous, and worst, of the NAM VET Newsletter Page 24 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Prisoner of War Camps in all of Southeast Asia. HO CHI MINH TRAIL: A marvel of Vietnamese logistics. This was the main supply route by which the NVA moved men and material into the south. This route passed from the North in a southerly direction through portions of Laos and Cambodia into the tunnel complexes of South Vietnam for distribution of arms and other material to the Viet Cong already in place. Named after the founder of the People's Republic of Vietnam (North) HOOTCH: Also spelled Hooch. A dwelling. Some soldiers lived in these. Of very simplistic design, usually of materials that were found on-hand. HUEY: Helicopter manufactured by Bell Co. The mainstay of the Vietnam War, and was used extensively in practically all applications; whether for troop movements, or as gunships, or for medivac. Literally the workhorse of the jungle. See: DUSTOFF, SLICK, MEDIVAC. HQ: Headquarters IN-COUNTRY: Welcome to Vietnam! KIA: Killed in Action LAAW: Light Anti-Armour Weapon, usually used once and then disposed of. LBJ: Long Binh Jail. A place of incarceration for "naughty" military personnel. LOACH: Light observation chopper. LP: Listening Post LRRP: Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol LZ: Landing Zone. A place where a Huey or Chopper would deliver troops. The LZ might be "hot" or "cold". A hot LZ was a place in which the enemy was in control and was about to be engaged, and was extremely dangerous. Conversely, a cold LZ usually was relatively safe. Names were usually assigned to LZ, or numerical designation. MACV: Military Assistance Command Vietnam. Based in Saigon. Command operated headquarters for all operations in country. MASH: Mobile Army Surgical Hospital M-14: Common automatic rifle used primarily by the Marines. Used 7.62mm. NATO ammunition. Very accurate but heavy weapon primarily because it employed wood stock and handgrips. Very durable gun that rarely broke down in the field. M-16: Also called a Mattie Mattel gun, because of its plastic stock and handgrips, and smaller size as compared to the M-14. Originally manufactured by the Fairchild Corporation and later produced by Colt Industries. US Air Force were the first of the NAM VET Newsletter Page 25 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Services to employ the gun, with the Army following suit sometime later after the gun was modified somewhat. Compared to today's version, the "16 of the Vietnam War did tend to jam and, on more than one occasion, caused losses of life because of its mechanical problems. Yet, the gun was lighter and easier to carry, had relatively simple and fewer parts to maintain. Uses the 5.56 NATO ammunition, and was capable of single, semi-auto and fully automatic use. The gun was first developed in 1954. The gun is still used today in its upgraded versions. Civilian model is designated the AR-15, which only operated in the semiautomatic mode. The newer versions have been redesigned and the jamming problem eliminated. It is now a highly thought of weapon. MAMA-SAN: An older Vietnamese woman, usually married, and a mother, as in German, Frau; English, Mrs.. Papa-San is the male counterpart. MEDIC: Soldier trained in basic medical procedures, who was in the field to take care of wounded combat troops and who often treated minor illnesses and sometimes not so minor illnesses. Good medics were prized by the men in their outfits for the obvious reasons. There were some medics so well skilled they could (and did) perform surgery that civilian surgeons would not attempt until they were well into their surgical residency long after medical school. Navy and Marine versions were called Corpsman. Though the medics were not trained anywhere near the degree as a full physician, they were often called "Doc" by their men. MEDIVAC: A Huey or Chopper designed to evacuate wounded combat troops, or the severely ill to medical facilities in the rear or hospital ships. MIA: Missing in Action MOS: Military Occupation Specialty. NCO: Non-Commissioned Officer. NVA: North Vietnamese Army. The "regulars", and usually better trained than the VC, as well as better equipped. The enemy. OD: OD's were the green utility uniform often worn, as opposed to camouflage dress. Also olive drab. POINT: Soldiers, one or two in number, that headed or advanced in front of a column, squad, or in some cases a full company. Their duty was to "clear the way" for the safety of said column and spot and report intelligence on enemy movements in the field. Point men often were FNG's (see FNG), which is to say inexperienced. Point men would look for mines, antipersonnel devices, booby traps, and the enemy. The mortality rate was very high. You became a point man usually by appointment by the CO or your Sergeant. The appointment depended on your experience, or rather the lack of it. Some units, though, used very experienced personnel in this position. POW: Prisoner(s) of War. NAM VET Newsletter Page 26 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 PRC-25: The common radio used for communications in Vietnam. See: RTO PTSD: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. A syndrome that affected Vietnam Veterans after their return stateside that manifested symptoms of flashbacks, nightmares, thought ideation, confusion, and dissociative reactions. A syndrome that is still ongoing for many vets to the present day. It fortunately has a good prognosis with proper treatment. PX: Post Exchange. REMF: Rear Echelon Motherf*cker. See: STRACK ROKA: Republic of Korea Army. Allied to US Forces. Very fierce soldiers, and very accomplished in the Art of War. Their Tiger Division became very famous. ROTATION: Servicemen were "rotated" through their tours or duty. Coming in and then leaving (after tour) was "being rotated". RPG: Rocket Propelled Grenade RTO: Radiotelephone operator. A soldier in a company or unit designated to maintain communications with proper authority by radio usually. His survival rate was poor because his antenna was highly visible and usually an easy target. 2nd lieutenants (shake & bakes, ninety day wonders) who were inexperienced often stayed too close to this soldier and wound up being a casualty himself. The model designation of the radio often was the PRC-25, or known as PRICK 25's. R & R: Rest and recreation, also known as Rape & Riot. A period of time usually 10 days to two weeks in duration where American servicemen got time out from the War. Normally, each man was entitled to one period of R & R during his tour (there were exceptions). Popular places for R & R includes Bangkok, Thailand, The Philippines, Tokyo, Honolulu, New Zealand & Australia. There was also in-country R & R in such places as Cam Rahn Bay. The goal was women, drink, and fun; and quite the dichotomy coming from a combat zone. SAM: Surface-to-Air Missile. SAPPER: A soldier with special training in explosives and mines. In the War situation, it is referred to VC and NVA personnel who were trained to infiltrate and attack American bases from within. Usually a suicide mission on the part of the enemy who utilized explosives. Sappers also came from without and invaded our perimeter. SF: Special Forces, aka: The Green Berets and Navy SEALS. These were specially trained personnel who were considered in some military quarters to be elite, by reason of their training and independence from conventional military units and lifestyle, which did not please some elements of higher echelon command. The Green Berets (so noted because of their distinctive headgear) and SEALS were trained in special guerilla insurgency and counterinsurgency techniques, linguistics, medicine, and cultural exchange. Their NAM VET Newsletter Page 27 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 medical training far exceeded that of the Medic, and they were also trained to live under just about any adverse conditions and apply infiltration techniques to achieve their missions. Oftentimes these men lived in villages with civilian personnel to train the civilians in matters of community services and in defense of those communities. Training of these men was commonly at Ft. Bragg, and under the pall of secrecy, which further annoyed the top brass. But they were goo, especially in the early days of the Vietnam War when their standards were very high. President John Kennedy had a special fondness for the Green Berets and was largely responsible for their continuation under a somewhat hostile military command structure. Kennedy encouraged them tremendously, and contributed much to their popularity with civilians, as did Barry Sadler who, in 1965-66, wrote a song called THE BALLAD OF THE GREEN BERET. The Green Berets were represented at Kennedy's funeral in November 1963. The rank status of most was that of non-commissioned officer. SHAKE & BAKES: Also called 90-day-wonders. These were officers commissioned as 2nd Lieutenants, who graduated from Officer Candidate School (OCS) or were commissioned from college. They were poorly trained, as there was a severe shortage of 2nd Lieutenants. They became "instant" officers, not given enough time for proper training. They often did not live very long, usually as a result of their inexperience, or incompetence, which sometimes caused them to be fragged by the more inexperienced combat vet. See: REMF, STRACK, FRAG, FRIENDLY FIRE. SLICK: A huey used for transporting ground troops, usually eight in number. Two M-60 machine guns were mounted on each side at the doors. SPOOK: Refers to CIA personnel and military intelligence types, who were involved in covert operations, usually in areas where the US was not supposed to be. Examples are Cambodia and Laos. Mainly they gathered intelligence, but would also conduct missions. SPOOKY: Also known as PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON. An aircraft outfitted with special guns that were capable of firing great quantities of bullets (some say in excess of 6000 rounds per minute) that were capable of hitting every square inch of ground the size of a football field in approximately one minute. STRACK: Refers to certain types of officers who were long on spit and shine, but not much on the concepts of the War or the men who fought it. These officers were not well liked because they seemed to be more concerned with military discipline and image than they were with the conditions and morale of the men of the War. Usually these officers knew very little about the actual conditions and needs of the combat or support soldier. They seemed to go out of their way to harass seasoned veterans. Great on the parade field, but that was about all. See: REMF SHORT: Term applied to a troop who was nearing the end of his tour and was about to go home. The closer that time approached the "short" man would do just about anything to avoid a war zone. Especially in the last 45 to 30 days or so. This guy could become very superstitious about anything, the closer his time came. NAM VET Newsletter Page 28 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 There are many instances where a man who was real short wound up dead, even on the day he was to rotate out. See: TOUR TDY: Temporary Duty Assignment. TDY was used extensively in the early part of the War when we were acting in an "advisory" role. Personnel in other parts of the world or stateside often were "TDY" to Vietnam when additional troops were necessary without arousing public suspicion or congressional concern. TDY was also used as a means of assigning troops or others to areas that were technically or politically off-limits, in covert operations. TOUR: A tour of duty in Vietnam lasted 12 months, and was so called. The Marines tour was 13 months, and the Air Force tour was based on flight missions. At the end of which you rotated or DEROS'd home. TUNNEL RAT: Strictly a volunteer soldier or grunt in a unit that would undertake the business of flushing out the enemy who was holed up in tunnels that were all over Vietnam, especially in the Iron Triangle Area of South Vietnam. These tunnels ran for miles and often contained caches of weapons and contained fully underground surgical and hospital facilities along with barracks and intelligence areas. The survival rate for Tunnel Rats was less than 1%. The job was considered about the most dangerous duty in the 'Nam. Oftentimes the tunnel rat would go into these places equipped only with a handgun and a flashlight. Since the Vietnamese people are of such short stature, and with underground areas so small, that the ideal tunnel rat was a man also of short stature. Big on guts though! VIETNAMIZATION: A policy devised under the administration of President Richard M. Nixon by which US Troops would gradually be withdrawn from Vietnam, turning the War effort over to the South Vietnamese Government as the gradual withdrawal took place. The policy ultimately failed as the North Vietnamese overran South Vietnam which culminated in April of 1975 with the emergency evacuation of Saigon of both military and civilian personnel, not to mention many citizens that fled the country later in boats. Thus the term Boat-people. Many of these citizens perished in their escape attempts. Those that did survive, ultimately settled in the United States. WIA: Wounded in Action XO: Executive Officer NAM VET Newsletter Page 29 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Remember from YOUR tour of Duty? Messages in VIETNAM_VETS International Echo To/From: Jim Hildwine Larry Magnello Mike Harris Lefty Frizzell From: Jim Hildwine To: All Do any of you remember any of the following during you tour with the Army 1. Getting up at O Dark Thirty for that famous morning formation in the dark.. i.e 5:30 am... (For you older folks, they don'nt do it any more) 2. Saturday moring inspections? 3. Ye old CMMI Team? (Head Hunters!, caused many a down fall of Company Commanders as well as Motor Sgt's) 4. The crap before the annual IG.. Now called the AIG.. 5. Being paid ONCE a month, and for E-3's and below in the sixties it was less then $100.00 a month (Me was 99.37 before the deductions. 6. Your very frist day in "Basic Training"? Now who can forget that day? Remember your weapons serial number.. Try you will. 7. Remember these? There not used any more.. RA, US (god love em), ER's, and last but least NG (Where is Quale?) 8. Your very frist KP? 9. Any one out there remember your "Welcome" to the 90th Replacment Bn at Long Binh? Remember the lousy chow, got even worse when you got to you new out fit. 10. Remember being an FNG? or what FTA ment (For The Army!!!!) 11. Those famous words well spoken by your favorite NCO... Yea wanna RE-UP??? 12. Day one in Nam, with only 364 to go. What a Bummer! 13. The weather girls name on AFVN TV at night... You know the one with the mini skirt...? 14. Remember what a "Star Light Scope" was? 15. Anyone remember his buddy having a "Spider Monkey"? God they were the worst>>>>>>//. 16. Does anyone remember the famous "Morning Report"... They don't em any more. Took em 30 years to find they really did't need em. 17. When "Mess Halls" were Mess Halls, and not called Dining Facilities? 18. Speaking of Food and Mess Halls remeber the following: SOS, and corned beef, and all the eggs were cooked the same. Overdone!. 19. Remeber when you could write "Free" on you letter and send it any were in the world for nothing? 20. The feeling you had when you pulled a can of "Chopped Ham and Eggs" out of the warm up pot? (Gross) (Many of them were on M-60's to help feed the belt. 21, The taste of C-ration instant Coffee... Ugh.. make that double. 22. Going to Mail call and not getting mail? 23. Being out in the boonies just waiting and talking about going back to the land of Big Px's and round door knobs, and getting NAM VET Newsletter Page 30 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 "Dear Johned"? 24. Your Very 1st Art 15? (some of us did'nt and some of us did) 25. Remember the Following: 20's were Red, Ten's were Blue, and one's were green. Ye old MPC..... the pennies, nickles, dimes etc were the real thing. 26. F&N Ginerale. Triple Ugh..... That stuff was just number 10,000. 27. The Steambath...? 28. When you found out "Slick" did'nt mean what you thought it ment. 29. The added addition to the "Body Count"? 30. Anyone remember Sgt Major of the Army "WoolRidge"... 31. Remember the famous three songs of our time in Nam. a. Leaving on a Jet Plane... You got that right. b. We gotta get out of this place... Thats for sure. c. Rain drops keep falling.... You get bet your sweet dupa on that one. 32. Getting to you new outfit, and the frist guy you meet in going home the next day, and is from your home town....! 33. The free steak dinner when you came home from Nam, and also you now had to pay taxes to Uncle sam again.? 34. Not shining your boots for one "WHOLE YEAR""""""""""""" 35. Being told when you got to Nam you had to take a drivers test? Now that is a joke.... Anyone remember those buses of theirs (RVN)? 36. Anyone remember "Silver Bullets" and the "No Sweat" Pill? 37. What "LBJ" really stood for (Long Binh Jail) Add your own to the list? Federal Benefits? Ask me!!! - Jim - From: Larry Magnello The Steel Valley BBS (1:237/500) To : Jim Hildwine Subj: Remember?:reply No.# (38) The tropical candybar that you could throw to the vietnamese and they would throw it back at you, but they would keep your empty tin cans from your sea rations... No. #(39) The FREEDOM BIRD that flew away when you landed and it dawned on you that you could not leave until you were booked on one. No.# (40) The monkeys that would jump from your head onto another head while you were smokingggg away.. No.$ (41) The first time you prayed because you were in the bush going to the bathroom squatting down and saying Oh God, please don't let me die in this position. From: Mike Harris + T.M.E. + Coos Bay, OR 503/269-1935 (1:152/18) + (8:7700/0) The NETWORK - G rated FAMILY oriented (1:129/34) To : All Subj: Jim's "Remember" list! #42 Remember the "Chicken Man" episodes? A bit of humor in a dark time. #43 Remember the Crown Royal "Tassel" being used to designate a NAM VET Newsletter Page 31 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 shorttimer? #44 Remember the P-38 races? I think we got a can of peaches down to about 7 secs. Remember the callous on your thumb from opening so many cans? #45 Remember the brilliant one liners? "A Dong saved is a Dong earned!" #46 Remember the menagerie a flags on the bases, boats, tracks, etc. Oregon, California, Nebraska, Alabama, etc. Each owner a proud young man fighting for a cause. (I still have mine with shrapnel holes in it! Oregon) #47 Remember seeing your 1st "Red Snake" coming down out of darkness on the horizon. Then later seeing "Green Snakes" coming up at you from the ground? #48 Remember Camp Alpha in Saigon? Feeling like a migrant while waiting to be processed somewhere? #49 Remember NEVER "Popping a top" in Vietnam? Better wait and see it the guys after 7/69 had pop tops! Always had the opener close! #50 Remember searching for the Conex Box that you KNEW was full of beer after the club had closed? (I tried to steal on with a forklift in Dong Tam and got caught!) #51 Remember the sweat running down all parts of your body as you waited in line for your FREEDOM BIRD to take off? No air on and Remember not feeling totally at ease until you could not longer see the coast of Vietnam? What makes me think that this numerical order will get messed up? Come on guys and gals! Let's get some more on here so we can all.. REMEMBER!!! MIKE From: Lefty Frizzell The Exec Washroom "ANet<>VetNet<>Qlink<>RIME Multinet Gate" To : Mike Harris Subj: Jim's "Remember" list! In a message of Mike Harris (1:129/34) writes: MH>#48 Remember Camp Alpha in Saigon? Feeling like a migrant MH>while waiting to be processed somewhere? Remember the guy who stole your bags at Camp Alpha? And claimed that his bag had the name "FRIZZELL" on it in letters 6 inches tall? MH>#49 Remember NEVER "Popping a top" in Vietnam? Better wait MH>and see it the guys after 7/69 had pop tops! Always had the MH>opener close! Still have my church key. My daughter looks at it as if it were a civil war musket.. (Daddy, you mean they didnt even have pop tops back then??) MH>#50 Remember searching for the Conex Box that you KNEW was MH>full of beer after the club had closed? (I tried to steal on MH>with a forklift in Dong Tam and got caught!) NAM VET Newsletter Page 32 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 MH>#51 Remember the sweat running down all parts of your body as MH>you waited in line for your FREEDOM BIRD to take off? No air MH>on and Remember not feeling totally at ease until you could MH>not longer see the coast of Vietnam? Lefty NAM VET Newsletter Page 33 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= V e t e r a n B e n e f i t s & I n f o ================================================================= VA STUDY BENEFIT REFORMS Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md Washington D.C., Feb 28, - Secretary of Veterans Affairs Edward J. Derwinski said today that the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) will soon complete work on a package of benefit reforms that would eliminate inequities and inconsistencies in eligibility criteria for VA health-care services and disability payments. Derwinski said he wanted to be sure there was no misunderstanding that VA intended to scale back current benefits. "What we are doing," Derwinski said, "is identifying those areas that by any definition are patently unfair. Our work is aimed at improving access to the health-care system and correcting numerous imbalances in eligibility criteria." Examples Derwinski provide included equalizing payment of benefits to surviving spouses of disabled veterans. In the only VA benefit program now based on a veterans military rank, current law delivers monetary benefits to surviving spouses of disabled generals and admirals nearly 1 1/2 times greater than payments go to survivors of veterans discharged at the lowest enlisted ranks. "That's an injustice and morally wrong," Derwinski said. "The system needs to be fixed." Other areas of eligibility reform being examined by a VA task force would like the payment of service-connected disability compensation directly to actual performance of military duty. Current law provides benefits for almost all disabling injuries and diseases that occur during military service, even off-duty accidents and health problems not traceable to military exposure. Also under scrutiny are restrictions VA now confronts in offering medical care to low-income veterans -- So-called Category A -- who are not eligible for outpatient care unless a physician certifies that without it hospitalization will be required. "That is an illogical and costly restriction, "Derwinski said. "We ought to be able to see that veteran regularly and help prevent the kind of problems and make hospitalization necessary." Emphasizing that the eligibility reform project was still in development stage, Derwinski said, "We are not engaged in a scheme to deprive veterans of what is rightfully theirs. Furthermore, we will ensure that any proposed changes wouldn't cut benefits to any veteran now receiving them; any increases would go into effect immediately." Derwinski said he would continue his practice of meeting with veterans organizations leaders to discuss the reforms and proposed legislative changes. NAM VET Newsletter Page 34 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 VA CLAIMS PROCESSING STILL PLAGUED BY STAFFING SHORTAGES APPLEGATE CALLS FOR PERFORMANCE TURNAROUND Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md WASHINGTON -- File a claim and wait a minimum of three months. That is what three out of four veterans who apply for compensation benefits from the VA can expect. Further, the likelihood that an error will be made during the process continues to increase. Rep. Douglas Applegate (D-OH), during a house hearing last month on Administration budget proposals, called upon the VA to improve its productivity in claims processing and expressed doubts that current Administration proposals would result in appreciable "recovery" in the timely delivery of benefits. He links ever- lengthening delays in the consideration of veterans' applications for benefits to the sharp decline in funding for VA benefits personnel over the past decade. The latest available statistics show that only 26.7 percent of original compensation claims are being processed within 90 days, well below VA's minimum acceptable level of 35 percent. Applegate and other members of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee believe that at least half of these claims should be processed within a 90-day period. At the moment, according to the VA, there are 381- thousand pending compensation and pension claims. "The only sure way to substantially reduce this backlog is for the Congress to provide sufficient funding for more warm bodies, plain and simple," said Applegate, Chairman of the Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Compensation, Pension and Insurance. "My concern is no way should suggest that we don't have hard-working, dedicated employees in the field ... there just aren't enough of them," he said. Since 1982, staffing levels for these employees in the VA's 58 regional offices who are responsible for processing claims for disability, death, and education benefits have fallen by 25 percent, from 4,832 to 3,664. The Administration has requested only seven additional full-time employees above the actual FY '90 level. Applegate applauded the Administration for its $32-million proposal (1 $13 million increase over FY '90) for modernization initiatives, which includes the implementation of an automated information exchange between VA's benefits and medical divisions. However, he cautioned that hardware alone is not the answer. "Over the years, modernization initiatives have been paid for with staffing cuts, and I don't believe we should permit this trend to continue," says Applegate, adding that "because of the labor intensive nature of the claims processing system, you simply cannot reach a level of automation that makes up for a lack of people." Quality too is a problem. Substantive errors in claims ratings and authorizations have increased. NAM VET Newsletter Page 35 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 "Program complexity, the difficulty of decision making and the rate of legislative change has never been greater ... our error rates have moved away from our goals in recent years," testified Raymond H. Avent, VA's Acting Chief Benefits Director. Applegate and VA officials agree that there must be increased emphasis on employee training. VA has announced plans to enhance it's training activities for new veterans claims examiners and claims it "will explore" the use of such tools as computer- assisted training, videotaping, and video conferencing. "It is a great injustice to subject a veteran to unreasonable delays or any other impediments in obtaining benefits for which he or she might be eligible for having served in this nation's Armed Forces. This injustice is especially compounded if we choose to ignore so obvious a solution -- people -- to reversing the downward performance trend in benefits assistance in our regional offices," said Applegate. NAM VET Newsletter Page 36 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 BACK PAY FOR VETERANS? From: HIRAM PEREZ Subj: Back Pay For Veterans There was a message dated 2-14-90 from Jim Hildwine concerning "Back Pay For Veterans." In it, he stated that any veteran who served on active duty between 10-1-72 and 1-1-73 may be entitled to some back pay. There were several addresses included to write to. I thought you all might be interested in the reply I received. ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY U.S. ARMY FINANCE AND ACCOUNTING CENTER Indianapolis, Indiana 46249-0865 March 13, 1990 Dear Sir: Your correspondence is returned. The article upon which your claim is bases is several years out of date. Claims for the period cited in the article cannot be accepted as the statute of limitations for such claims has expired. We are trying to identify the source of the "Veterans Affairs Newsletter" mentioned in your letter so that we may advise the editors accordingly. We regret that a more favorable response cannot be made to you regarding this matter. Sincerely, Carolyn J. Shaw Claims/Inquiries Division Centralized Pay Operations ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ What I got was obviously a form letter since I've never heard of the "Veterans Affairs Newsletter" much less mentioned it in my inquiry. Although I'm very sure Mr. Hildwine posted the original message in good faith, it appears to be a blind alley. Sure hope no one was planning to retire on this windfall! From: Jim Hildwine To : HIRAM PEREZ Subj: Back Pay For Veterans Hiram, the letter for back pay was passed to me by another Veteran who is retired US Army as me. At the time I received it, I declined to send for the money as it was really not worth all the time and effort for me, as I figured even if due, it would be taxed, and would be less then forty dollars. It was also accompanied by a newspaper article with no date, plus a form to send to your local accounting office ie. Army, Navy, AF, etc... Sorry for the trouble, but it was passed to me in good faith. Will get with my buddy and ask him what the deal is .. Tks for the input.. NAM VET Newsletter Page 37 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Federal Benefits? Ask me!!! - Jim - NAM VET Newsletter Page 38 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Questions Often Asked Of The VA Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md VA EDITOR'S NOTE: Following are representative questions answered daily by VA counselors. Full information is available at any VA office. Q... Are veterans with a service-connected disability seeking Department of Veterans Affairs medical care exempt from VA's Means Test? A... All veterans with service-connected illnesses or disabilities are provided no-cost care regardless of income. Certain other veterans also are exempt from the Means Test, including former prisoners of war, veterans exposed to radiation or herbicides, and veterans of the Spanish-American War, the Mexican Border period and World War I. Q... When a veteran is training under a VA Vocational Rehabilitation Program, does the receipt of subsistence allowance cause any reduction in VA compensation payments? A... No. The veterans may receive both subsistence allowance and disability compensation to which entitled. In addition, VA will pay for the cost of tuition, books and fees involved in the rehabilitation program. Q... I have a five-year level premium term insurance plan with the Department of Veterans Affairs. I would like to convert to one of the permanent plans. Will I have to take a physical to meet certain health requirements? A... The five-year level premium term insurance plan can be converted without meeting health requirements at any time the policy is in force. However, if the veteran is totally disabled, it cannot be converted to an endowment type policy. Q... Is it possible for a veteran to be entitled to a pension and to compensation and receive both benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs? A... A veteran may be technically entitled to both benefits, but cannot be payed(sic) for more than one. Q... May I use my VA home loan benefit to purchase a house for my daughter? A... No. The home must be the principal residence of the veteran. Q... I am a divorced veteran. Can my ex-wife force me to main- tain her as my beneficiary on my VA life insurance policy? A... Under your Government Life Insurance contract, you have the right to designate or change a beneficiary at any time. You can do this without the knowledge or consent of your designated bene- ficiary or beneficiaries. The United States Supreme Court has ruled that state courts cannot restrict your right to make changes to your beneficiary designation. Any changes must be made by sub- mitting your written designation to the Department of Veterans Affairs. NAM VET Newsletter Page 39 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Q... How do I apply for eligibility for VA medical treatment for my service-connected disability while traveling overseas? A... Prior to treatment, authorization must be obtained from the nearest American Embassy or Consulate if treatment is required for a service-connected disability. Q... What type of income should I report on my annual eligibility verification report to continue my VA pension benefits? A... Income from all sources must be reported. VA will determine what sources and amounts will be counted and the amount of income to be excluded. Q... Can I get a release of liability from the Department of Veterans Affairs if a non-veteran assumes my VA-guaranteed home loan? A... If the buyer meets with VA approval, you may be released from liability. Q... If I encounter legal difficulties while purchasing a home using my VA home loan benefit, will the Department of Veterans Affairs provide or pay for any legal assistance I may need? A... No. The Department of Veterans Affairs does not provide legal assistance or advice; nor can the Department pay for legal assistance a veteran obtains to deal with troubles encountered in the purchase or construction of a home. Federal Benefits? Ask me! - Jim - NAM VET Newsletter Page 40 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 VA Rings in New Year With More Staffing, Money Shortages By Ellen Rafshoon --from VETS' FORUM "Service To The Alaskan Veteran" State of Alaska - Division of Veterans' Affairs Jan/Feb 1990 Issue Input by: G. Joseph Peck NamVets Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 Veterans Affairs Department medical employees will find no relief from mounting workloads caused by staffing shortages this year. Due to automatic Gramm-Rudman-Hollings spending cuts and a $94 million miscalculation of personnel costs by the VA, the agency plans to cut 2,000 employees from medical care rolls over the next six months through attrition, said VA spokeswoman Donna St. John. In all, there is a $158 million shortfall, she said. Any job vacancies not deemed to be of absolute necessity at the VAs 172 medical centers will gto unfilled during that period, she said. The agency will therefore not get to the congressionally mandated personnel ceiling of 194,720 for 1990. The VA employs 193,800 people. To prevent any further reductions in staff, the VA will divert funds from its equipment and construction supply accounts to medical care accounts, St. John said. In addition, the $50 million that the VA received for drug-fighting efforts will be funneled to medical centers. Meanwhile, key members of Congress, including Senate Veterans Affairs Committee chairman Alan Cranston, D-CA, and Majority Leader George Mitchell, D-ME, are asking President Bush for an emergency funding bill. The group called on Bush to provide $252 million in emergency aid. An emergency funding bill passed last year baled out the agency with $1.3 billion. Due to increases in special pay rates, the increasing cost of health benefits for employees ad the elimination of pay caps for certain physicians, the VA failed to account for $94 million in personnel costs as part of its 1990 budget request, St. John said. Also, medical centers are forced to absorb 40 percent of the January 1990 pay raise. "VA cannot continue to function on this start-and-stop basis with inconsistent funding levels and inadequate commitment from the administration from year to year," senators warned. They urged Bush to avoid last year's crisis by proposing a 1991 budget of $11.6 billion, $743 million more than the administration's 1990 request. NAM VET Newsletter Page 41 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Committee Calls for Seven Percent Increase in Veterans' Spending Input by: Jim Hildwine NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 Shady Side, Md WASHINGTON --- The Committee on Veterans' Affairs today recommended that next year's budget for veterans' programs be increased to $32.5 billion, a seven percent hike in projected spending for the current year. The proposal now goes to the Budget Committee for consideration before it is submitted to the full House of Representatives. "This is an entirely reasonable request considering the fact that the administration proposed a five percent increase above FY '90 levels," said Committee Chairman G.V. "Sonny" Montgomery (D- MS), "and considering that under the Administration plan, even though it's the best we've seen in years, there's still some significant deficiencies which must not be ignored." "In particular," said Montgomery, "there is a dire need for additional direct care resources for our VA medical facilities, a need which has been well documented and with which I am confronted daily though veterans' letters which cross my desk. If these recommendations are accepted, we will make considerable progress toward reducing delays and backlogs for outpatient and nursing care. Further, while the focus primarily has been on health care in recent years, we must not forget that our regional benefits offices are understaffed, which has severely hampered the Department's ability to deliver services in a timely manner. This simply cannot be allowed to continue," he said. The Committee's ranking Republican agreed. "Our recommendation to the budget Committee should go beyond an amount which merely halts the trend in declining services to the veterans' advocates by requesting a budget which restores access to the system and reestablishes the high degree of quality that veterans deserve," he said. The Committee's changes to the Administration's budget proposal amount to an additional $729 million and 2,832 employees. Among the highlights of the Committee budget as compared to the Administration proposal: - INCREASES staffing of benefits personnel by 577 in order to improve quality, timeliness, and access to services - RESTORES finding for community nursing home care to 1988 levels by adding $96 million. This would allow 10 thousand more veterans to receive contract care - PROVIDES an additional $69 million and 990 full-time employees for outpatient care to allow for an additional one-half million outpatient visits - REJECTS the Administration's proposed legislation to NAM VET Newsletter Page 42 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 increase the mortgage indemnity fee and implement a down payment for home loan guarantees "If the defense budget is reduced as a result of the so- called "Peace dividend" from a thaw in the Cold War, which seems likely, then some of the savings most certainly should go to our veterans. Peace worldwide has been built upon their sacrifices," said Montgomery. NAM VET Newsletter Page 43 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= M i s s i n g ! ! ! ================================================================= Homecoming II Project by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 March 21, 1990 The U.S. Army has refused to confirm or deny that the remains returned and identified as those of SFC Frank C. Parrish which were buried in 1973 were again returned and buried in 1990. Many of us could dig in our files and find that SFC Frank C. Parrish and his comrade, SFC Earl Biggs, were lost in 1968 near My Tho, Vietnam. These two were members of Company D, Detachment A411, 5th Special Forces Group. Their strike force was ambushed. After the fighting, search parties were dispatched. They learned from Vietnamese that Biggs and Parrish had been captured and executed. Both men were classified Missing in Action. The Defense Intelligence Agency further expanded the classification to include an enemy knowledge ranking of 1. Category 1 indicates "confirmed knowledge" and includes all missing personnel who were identified by the enemy by name, identified by reliable information received from escapees or releases, reported by highly reliable intelligence sources, or identified through analysis of all-source intelligence. On January 17, 1972, remains were reported in the vicinity of the Parrish/Biggs action. These remains were recovered and identified in June, 1973 as those of SFC Parrish and returned to Parrish's family for burial. Reports of other remains exhumed by local farmers in this vicinity have been received, but no confirmation has been possible of their identity. No positive word on Earl Biggs surfaced until 1989, when his remains were returned and positively identified. Then in 1990, Parrish was buried...again. What did the Army return to Parrish's family in 1973 that they called Frank Parrish? Did they just not find all of him in 1973? Or did they not really have an identifiable body in 1973? Do they now? As the numbers of remains returned to U.S. control has increased over the past few years, tough questions are being asked about the quality of identification of these remains. Some of the cases are very interesting. One such case concerns a Vietnamese Air Force CH34 helicopter (serial #14-4653) which crashed just inside Laos east of Tchepone on November 30, 1968. The crew of the helicopter was Vietnamese. The American passengers were a team assigned to Command and NAM VET Newsletter Page 44 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Control North, MACV-SOG, U.S. Army Special Forces. The team was being transported to their reconnaissance mission area in Laos. Details of the mission were classified at that time, and remained classified as late as early 1990. American passengers on board the aircraft included: Sgt. Richard A. Fitts, Sgt. Arthur E. Bader, Cpl. Gary R. LaBohn, SSgt. Klaus D. Scholz, Maj. Samuel K. Toomey, Cpl. Michael H. Mein, 1Lt. Raymond C. Stacks. The helicopter was struck by 37mm anti-aircraft fire and crashed in a mass of flames and exploded. The crash site is in heavy jungle, near a stream. No one was seen to leave the aircraft. No ground search was initiated because the location was in a denied area. Later visual search indicated that the pilot's hatch was open, and his helmet was seen 25-30 feet from the helicopter. No survivors were seen. All the personnel aboard the aircraft were declared Missing in Action. In March 1988, the area in which the helicopter crashed was excavated by a joint Lao/US technical team. Remains were returned to the Army Central Identification Laboratory in Hawaii. On January 3, 1990, it was announced that the remains of Richard Fitts had been positively identified from the remains recovered at the crash site. According to Fitts' parents, the other remains found at the site were unidentifiable. The Fitts family had an independent forensic pathologist examine the remains, and accepted the identification. Barely a month later, on February 8, 1990, the Department of Defense announced that the remains of the rest of the crew had been positively identified. These remains are to be buried in a mass grave at Arlington National Cemetery on March 23, 1990. Walter and Rosella Fitts have long been active in the effort to resolve the POW/MIA issue and do not intend to stop now. They believe that Americans are still alive in captivity, even if their son is not among them. If these remains are so incomplete as to contraindicate positive identification, it seems wrong to label these men "accounted for." Even recognizing the peace of mind some families may derive from such a decision, it must also be noted that other families may be subjected to even greater uncertainties and anguish if their loved one is "written off" without specific evidence which applies to that individual. A previous mass burial exemplifies the artificiality of "peace" that is granted by false identification. In late February, 1968, members of Company B, 1st Battalion, 26th Marines were involved in action while on a patrol outside the perimeter of the Khe Sanh Combat Base in South Vietnam. After the long battle was over, the Marine Corps recovered approximately 18 unidentifiable remains from the battlefield.' Soon afterwards, a mass burial was planned for a National Cemetery in St. Louis, Missouri. The families of the men to be buried were notified, flown into St. Louis separately, and lodged in separate hotels. They did not confer with one another, and some felt they were deliberately being kept apart when they might console each NAM VET Newsletter Page 45 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 other, and perhaps learn from each other cherished details of their loved ones' last days. When the families arrived at the cemetery, they were shown the gravesite, but the burial did not take place in their presence. They were told they could come later to see the grave after interment. When one family member returned to the site, it was clear that no burial had taken place. The sod was undisturbed. On January 28, 1973, Sgt. Ronald Ridgeway, one of those 18 "dead" and buried Marines, turned up as a live Prisoner of War. The Marine Corps has admitted that some of those "buried" men could have been taken prisoner, but that it was doubtful. Even though considerable doubt surrounds the identification of the Marines buried in St. Louis, and, indeed, some of them, like Sgt. Ridgeway, might have survived to be captured, all were maintained in Killed in Action status. In short, no one was looking for them. Mrs. Michael Brellenthin, the wife of one of the 18 men asked Sgt. Ridgeway about her husband when she was able to contact him some years later. He was unable to provide any useful information on Michael other than he had not seen him prior to or after the battle. Mrs. Brellenthin questions the validity of the identification of her husband. No one is looking for Lance Corporal Michael Brellenthin. Each time remains are "positively identified" we receive the same assurances that the identifications are scientific, and supportable. Indeed, technology in this area has progressed beyond our imaginations. But can we really say that those like the Special Forces team and the Marine Corps unit have been truly positively identified? It should be no surprise that when remains are returned, families are reluctant to accept the U.S. Government's word that this is their loved one. The ultimate tragedy is that when a report trickles into U.S. Government agencies saying that Michael Brellenthin -- or Gary LaBohn -- or Samuel Toomey -- or any of the others -- is still alive, the verdict will be that this report correlates to an individual who has been accounted for! What if they haven't been accounted for? What if they ARE among those suspected to be alive? What if, like Ronald Ridgeway, they by some miracle showed up on Capitol Hill one day? What would we say to them? Sorry... we were just SURE it was you we buried... NAM VET Newsletter Page 46 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 POWs/MIAs still being seen! Input by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 (Note from Joe: As I edited this article for NamVet inclusion, I could not help but think to myself: "I wonder how true this REALLY is? Is THIS an actual example of the many attempts at psyching the general public to give MORE money to the POW/MIA effort?" I'd be interested in YOUR reaction(s).) 20 August 1989 ******************* ******************* ******************* Dear *********; As per our conversation tonight on the phone, I am enclosing a copy of my report on *************** activities in Thailand. You are one of the very few that have seen it. Although there is no classified information, I think you should be selective in deciding who should have a need to know. I am letting you have it because of your activities and your genuine concern in this issue. I'm sure you will be able to put it to some good use for the cause. ************* and I have parted company for various reasons, one of which you can probably imagine. I did , however, give them a copy also, and may regret it if ***** gets it. I gave it to **********, along with a partial financial report.(copies of the bank acct. and ext.) ************* may not want even this general info out yet, however I feel some people need to know what is going on to help keep the issue alive. As you will see if you read the reports, we had many live sighting reports and we (myself and 2 others know the informants and where to get in touch with them) can and will give it a good try in the near future, to attempt to get some of the POWs repatriated. We also have access to several set of remains which might also clear up several of the cases. I now may possibly have the backing, financially, politically, and etc. to go back within 2 weeks and complete the job we have started. Wish us luck. I'm still trying to get through on the lines to Bangkok tonight. Not much luck yet. I have contacts and friends at AP, UPI, and independent journalist who may be able to help. I'II keep trying. Give me a call if you have any questions, good luck. NAM VET Newsletter Page 47 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Sincerely, ********* August 9, 1989 The following report and summary gives, in general terms, the results of ************* activities in Nakon Phanom Thailand during the period of 1 December 1988 through 5 May 1989. All information in this summary is a compilation of data gathered by *************, and was taken from the daily log books which were kept by ************* personnel at their ************, "***************." This report does not include any specific names or exact locations of agents or Prisoners of War, for obvious reason. However, dates of the interviews and dates of the sightings are correct as reported. Some difficulty was encountered in interpreting some of the entries due to illegible handwriting. However, ****** was able to interpret most of the entries by using his knowledge of the situation and the people involved. Therefore, correctness of this report is the responsibility of ******** only. A note of importance that should be remembered and considered is this; a 90% probability of these testimonies being fraud, deception, or lies, with the intent of taking money from Americans, is very likely. Some of the informants and agents have made a business of taking money from Americans for over 15 years, and are very good at it. One point, however, that sets ************* apart from the other Americans who have been involved in S.E. Asia, is their "No money up front" policy. This policy weeded out the con-men from the beginning of most interviews; they usually did not come back again. The remainder of the informants who persisted in coming back at their own expense, with only the hope of obtaining the $2.4 million dollar reward, were considered to be the most reliable. Any dog-tag reports, remains, or other artifacts were referred to JCRC at the American Embassy in Bangkok. We did not buy any bones or other artifacts. However, we did take pictures and recorded the information. This summary is only intended to show an example of the types of reports we received while in the country. I do not intend to imply that any of the enclosed data is true or factual. It is based solely on the credibility and honesty of the informers. The reader should use his own opinion as to whether this Asia Project is useful, productive, and should otherwise be continued. Any publication or use of this data should be approved of first, by the staff of *************. This summary is only for your general information. The particulars on any individual cases, names, and locations may be obtained from ************* at their discretion. NAM VET Newsletter Page 48 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 SUMMARY : Reports received for the period of 1 December 1988, through 5 May 1989. 1. Number of individual reports concerning 71 "Live POWS:" 2. Total number of Americans reported: 2,212 3. Largest group (number) of POWs reported: 400-500 4. Majority of reports involved groups in 1 to 27 number ranging from: 5. Number of "First-Hand" live sightings, (actual 11 hands on or actual verbal communication with POWs): 6. Number of "Second-Hand" live sightings, (friend 10 or relative who has seen, touched, or talked to POWs): 7. Number of I-D card and dog-tag reports received: 15 8. Number of "remains" reported: 18 9. Number of individual remains actually seen by 6 ************* personnel: 10. Number of pictures reported or actually seen: 6 11. Number of POW Personnel files reported that are 70 available: 12. Number of rescue attempts reported in the last year: 3 13. Number of POWs "Killed" in rescue attempts: 2 (possibly 3) (possibly 3) The following is an abbreviated version of most of the reports we received for the report period. As was previously mentioned, the names, locations, and other important information have been omitted to prevent any detriment to agents or the POWs themselves. 1 December 1988 Dog-tag report with the name ________. 2 December 1988 Report of three men loosely held near VN border. Money wanted up front. 3 December 1988 Report of three sick POWs, part of another group. 6 December 1988 Informant, a Police Lt., with photo of three-four U. S. Officers. Is inquiring if the $2.4 million reward is real. 8 December 1988 NAM VET Newsletter Page 49 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 (1) Thai informant has lowland Lao friend, who came from Laos six to ten months ago. Supposedly has info on POWs, 100- 200 held in caves. Will follow-up. (2) Thai informant knows location of two POWs near VN border. Estimate 20 days travel to that location. (3) Informant knows the location of seven POWs, one possibly CIA. Kept together for ten years. 10 December 1988 (1) Thai informant brought in four dog tags, claims to have the remains of all four. Will bring jaw bone of one later. Also has Laos friend who knows location of two POWs. Brought jaw bone later which was photographed. (2) Report of eight POWs held in cave (two possibly CIA). Six in a cave, two out farming, cave dwellers out twice a week. Guards PL plus hill tribe types. Two farmers (CIA), one with wife, one single. 11 December 1988 Informant has PL friend who has live POWs, wants to defect and bring POWs with them. (56 guards and families). Wants guarantees, good possibility, but too large a number to move unnoticed. 12 December 1988 (1) Local lady brought son and friend in with a dog-tag; friend has seen the remains, skull, bones, uniform artifacts, alleged to be one _______________. (2) Same friend has seen three POWs near NVN border, begging to go home. They feel that they can get them out! 13 December 1988 (1) Three Lao claim to have friend who saw three POWs this year at ____________ All are pilots, originally nine; six died or committed suicide, ages 50-55. Guards and families want to come out. (Possibly 70 people). Round trip for more information (names); possibly 18 days. (2) Report of three POWs held in mountains near VN border. Informant claims good chance to get them out. 15 December 1988 Man reports his friend has the remains of ___________. brought dog-tag information; wants to sell the remains (naturally). 23 December 1988 Informant claims to have seen, talked to, and embraced, two POWs, in October 1988. They are survivors of a group of nine that escaped a VN prison camp in Cambodia in November 1988. Are being held by Lao Resistance now. Want to go home bad. Are very ill and weak. One is named ______________. 24 December 1988 Informant claims friend has several sets of remains with dog- tags and other artifacts. Wants to sell all. Also knows and has talked to two POWs recently who are married, have kids, and do not want to go home, (These later proved to be Frenchmen). 26 December 1988 (1) Informant had a set of remains, took them to the U. S. NAM VET Newsletter Page 50 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Embassy, and received quite a run-around. They were to get back to him, but never did. We have heard this from several people that are very upset. They would like something for their efforts and all they get is a "thank you for your contribution." (2) Informant claims to have seen two POWs at ten feet, one week ago. One man named ____________ they are kept in a cave, out to work on guard's GMC truck, One bald, 55-60, one with mustache and younger. Guards, PL and VC. POWs in this village for one year, (3) Another seven POWs were taken back to VN one year ago. One informant is apparently a PL guard. 2 January 1989 PL informant claims to have the POW personnel files of 70 POWs which he wants to trade for a permit to a third country. Records are of POWs which were moved to VN in 81-82 after Bo Gritz's visit. 9 January 1989 An American brought by dog-tag information to check against our list. VN national friend asked him to check it out. He claims to have two sets of remains buried under the front of his house. Remains are recoverable. Information did not check out on our list but may be on some other individual's list. 10 January 1989 Informant knows well two POWs, married to village chiefs'/officials' daughters. Others still in caves. 14 January 1989 (1) Informant (a very important person) knows two POWs and claims they want to remain in Laos. (???) One is married to a tribal chief's daughter and has three children by her. The other lives in a cave (??) and teaches vc about U.S. infantry tactics. Claims to be able to get POWs out but shows concern for escorts and fears being shot by Thai authorities if they get wind of any POWs coming out. (2) Same informant claims to have had three skulls of American helicopter crew members, from a helo crash site. Turned them over to U. S. Embassy; two checked out as non-Asian. 16 January 1989 Informant claims knowledge of 400-500 POWs being held in the area of the Chinese border. Had picture of two POWs in sleeveless undershirts and with beards. 20 January 1989 (1) Informant claims to have two skeletal remains of Americans named ___________ and ___________. Showed exact location on map where they are kept. (Point where Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia touch). Also has a friend who knows an American now teaching English in VN. POW? Missionary? (2) Had conversation with man claiming knowledge of 50 escaped GI's, mostly black and Hispanic, who were to be court-martialed along with NVA troops. (3) Non-POW information: same informant knows high-ranking NAM VET Newsletter Page 51 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Lao involved in Opium running. Wants out and wants money. Will provide pictures of airplanes and serial numbers involved in air drops into the Gulf of Siam (Thai Airforce) as proof of story (very interesting stories). 21 January 1989 Informant claims to have remains of two Americans named ____________ and _____________. Has other artifacts as well. 22 January 1989 (1) Female case worker at refugee camp told us of many Caucasians being held at _________. Sentries on the mountain tops prevent anyone from going in or out. Her informant has a friend who is one of the Sentries. All the prisoners are old (look to be in their 70's) but most likely in 50's and 60's. (2) Another informant reports seeing one American, red beard and hair, working. Do not know where he went. 24 January 1989 Female informant claims to have seen Americans believed to be POWs, three years ago in northern Laos. (Possible connection with and fits the previous story, (1) on 22 January 1989). 25 January 1989 Informant knows father of Chief guard of POW camp where as many as 400 POWs are being held. They go out in groups of 15 for work details. Has wild plan and scheme to get all out at once. We explained we needed only a couple to break this issue wide open. (This story is concerning the same general location of previous stories, with similar numbers--bears checking out). 3 February 1989 (1) Informant claims 27 POWs are being held by his cousin in ___________, in a large cave near ________________. (2) Cousin also show's him where six more POWs had been moved to the village of ____________ located ______________. These six came from a group of seven which he had recently acquired from another unnamed location. (Checks with other stories we have heard; this also has other interesting aspects to it). 6 February 1989 (1) Informant spoke in generalities of POWs being held in ______________ and __________ areas. Some substantial numbers were indicated. (2) He also knows of one American whose plane went down on VN/Laos border during the war. Was protected by VN women with whom he has had three children. In a very isolated area. (3) Also has friend with pictures of POWs, 1-3 years old. 9 February 1989 (1) Informant saw a light haired, long haired, and bearded six-foot tall man on a buffalo, 20K from ____________ near ____________ 1-I 1/2K from the small village of ________________ Was 30 meters from him when PL (armed guard) ordered him from the area. The guard told him the NAM VET Newsletter Page 52 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 man was a POW and there were several more. They worked on a rotational basis. (Our man is going back to get pictures and other information, 10 days). (2) A friend of his that he was going to see on this trip, gave him the dog-tag of the survivor of a C130 crash (crew of 11). They have the remains of the other ten, bones, dog-tags, etc. 10 February 1989 Female informant reports four POWs in one group, one has Lao wife and two children. Two others are held several K's away. Son knows where these people are located. 13 February 1989 (1) Informant has friend (PL) who saw two POWs in Laos who are guarded by six VC and their families, Are held in the village of __________. One is married to a VN wife and has five kids. *(2) Informant had letter from one of the POWs to be sent or mailed to his U.S. kin. 14 February 1989 Informant has Lao friend who was recently bringing out a POW. He was advancing one-two K's ahead of the POW when he was caught and arrested by VC. POW and other escorts went back to camp, 15 February 1989 (1) Female informant was in Viengsao Prison in 69-75, with husband. She escaped in June 1975. Claims 17 POWs were in the camp also; six were black yanks. Some died, Saw no more Americans during 12 years from 1975 until she entered Thailand in 1987. (2) Informant tells us he and Lao gathered data sheets. "Filled out personally by four POWs and turned them over to two USG types, "Steve and John." Information checked out positive on POWs. Haven't seen Steve or John since 1 November 1988. (3) Also four Thai., one Lao, and two escorted POWs allegedly were killed on their way to the Mekong, near ___________ in June 1988. Who killed them is unknown, bodies not found. However, they were known to have been killed according to groups #3 who was watching from afar, while group #2 was on the Lao side of the river, and group #1 was on the Thai side. (Steve and John?) Trying to find out who the two POWs were and the Thais. 16 February 1989 Same informant as above. Steve and John in and out of ______ most of 1988, paying for information on four POWs located at ______. Same two Americans also allegedly paid 1 million Baht for information on the two POWs who were killed. (Why were they caught and killed, was it a set-up?) We want to find out who Steve and John are, to get the real story. Also want to talk to a Thai, named ________________ who came from BR to help them. 17 February 1989 Same informant as above. Brought in imprint of dog-tag belonging to one ______________. On our list as "No Comment." NAM VET Newsletter Page 53 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Crash site in Laos, location? Brought to him by Lao friends; want money up front for remains. (Steve and John paid before), 21 February 1989 Two Thai informants; information about large camp for pilots at _____________. Have two pictures of Americans; two men in one picture and one in the other. Taken by PL in 1971 (too old to be of much use now; same pictures have been all over S.E. Asia for years). 22 February 1989 (1) Went to see in __________________. He reports one AF POW actually protected now by tribal group. Lives with tribal wife and two children, 6 Km from _______ village in mountains near VN border. Not everyone in village is aware of POW. POW is aware of the reward and wants to come out. X- PL man was point man arrested in an earlier report. (2) Went to see reported remains of a pilot. Allegedly have skull. Was shown material which belong with the skull, Lt./Col. Silver leaf USAF, coat button, two quarters, a nickel, and bone fragments (human?) Photographed these items. Plane crashed in general areas of _____________. Obviously wants money for these items and the location. (3) He also told of friend who saw one POW in tribal village; will give information for money, of course. 23 February 1989 (1) Had breakfast with ________________. Much information reported, including knowledge of "49 POWs." Believes there is a good possibility of there being more. (2) Another dog-tag brought in to check against our list. Alleged remains of _________________________. 24 February 1989 Informant warns us against false dog-tag reports of R. J. Dussult. (Everyone uses this name to get money from Americans). 25 February 1989 (1) Report of civilian named ______________. Supposedly killed in crash. Have ID card and bone fragments (this is a commonly used scam here), (2) Informant also claims to have three skulls and similar dod forms on three men who were captured and shot years ago and buried in ______________. (3) This agent has worked for _______ in 1986 and thinks he is a bad guy because of non-payment. He has gone into Laos for two months and five days, getting information on POWs. This American never paid him for his efforts. (4) Another eyewitness reports seeing, in January and February 1988, four or five white men, presumed to be POWs, in a prison compound with some Lao prisoners of unknown numbers. Location was 10 Km from _______ a village 20 Km S. W. of _________. One is red headed, none seem to be crippled, Prison is presently empty, Prisoners were moved to the Kha village of _______ near the VN border. He has been to old prison, still empty. 29 February 1989 NAM VET Newsletter Page 54 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Received call from French journalist who wants to share information about POWs. Will check him out. 2 March 1989 (1) Informant named ________ called again; two Lao friends had just left. Had brought information on two POWs. (2) Also spoke of two whites, one American, one Aussie, seeking information on POWs. He had avoided them. (3) Another group of Lao had also come to him with information on one POW with Lao wife and family. Works five days a week with Soviet Superior, as an A/C mechanic. Is carefully controlled. (4) Another contact has information on seven POWs in a cave, close to VN, guarded by PL and VC. Wants to sell information; then it's up to us or USG to get them out. 4 March 1989 Informant #1 and Informant #2 have old picture of one F105 pilot in water surroundings (6 December 71). One of two POWs in front of helicopter that was downed is in fair shape. Insist these three are part of a group of 27 now held in highly secure area under the control of a VC General and a VN Col. in the area of ____________. #2 insists he can get more information; he works periodically at the POW camp. Camp is located between mountains and forest at end of __________ road, _____ Km north of ______________. 5 March 1989 Received report of unusual plans to rescue POWs. One POW alleged to be son of Col. __________________ . Cannot divulge anything further at this time. 10 March 1989 Informant _____________returned again, this time with POW information on ___________. Allegedly working as a mechanic under Soviet supervision. Married to daughter of tribal chief, has family in village. Can get any information desired: photos, prints, hand written letters, etc. POW wants to go home. 22 March 1989 (1) _______, reports hearing of PL captured trying to bring out a POW. POW reportedly taken to another prison. Took place in October 1988. (Sounds similar to other reports we received). 23 March 1989 (1) Visit from independent journalist; told story of a black sergeant who is supposedly a deserter. An informer allegedly has video and audio tapes of him. A second story says he has already been moved to Europe. Another story he is following up on is of four-five Americans being brought to Thailand by ship. Presently being held by KR in Southern Cambodia. (2) Informant's cousin knows the location of one American POW 70 Km from here in the village of _________ due east of here near the VN border. Has Lao wife and two children. Works and helps villagers with construction, etc. POW is air crew/not pilot. (3) Informant's Lao brother-in-law actually stood next to, NAM VET Newsletter Page 55 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 and talked to two Americans on New Years (did not know they were valuable at the time). Was there again in February, only one POW was visible. (4) Another illegal informant wants to sell bones; claims to have complete set of remains, including dog-tags. Gave us the name _____________ and other dog-tag information. (5) Received call from _________ in BK. Wants to check out a dog-tag for him and also wants results of two previous names he had given us. 25 March 1989 Met a man in town; has a friend that has many remains to sell. Friend also knows the location of many "live Americans in S.E. Laos." Knows where we live; will get back with more information. 26 March 1989 Informant claims a Lao friend told him of four POWs (close to river). 27 March 1989 Informant claims Lao friends know where seven POWs are kept in the village of _______, ___ Kms due _____ of here. Saw them during the week of 20 March 1989. 28 March 1989 Agent reports having six teams in Laos at present, and feels it is only a matter of time before a successful rescue is accomplished. 31 March 1989 __________ called from _______ shop. A man came into his shop claiming to know where three POWs are detained in Danang area, Claims to be able to get pictures and other information. He is a former border policeman and drug runner, 1 April 1989 (1) A friend came by to see if we were interested in some remains and artifacts; his friend had brought from Laos. We went to see the remains; had upper jaw (lower part of skull), a Flight chit, dog-tags, and bone fragments alleged to belong to one ____________. We took pictures and recorded the information. (2) Further discussion resulted in the Lao informant telling of one live POW in the Hanoi area. Parachuted to safety; only survivor of an eight man crew, now doing mechanic work, under guard, Russian and VN troops near. Last seen in January 1989. Informant is going back to get pictures and information we requested (including letter), 2 April 1989 (1) Our contact on the ______ operation brought us the name of our main contact in Laos. Shooting for an operation start up by 5 April 1989. This mission involves possible rescue of eight POWs, including one well-known POW. (************* is not involved in this operation; this is strictly an independent effort by ________________). (2) Our man also informed us about two USG types holding lectures up and down the border, trying to discredit NAM VET Newsletter Page 56 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ******, Bill Hendon, Jack Bailey, and other groups in the area. (There is much more to this story). (3) _________ called; our operation is approved for go. 3 April 1989 (1) Made further operational planning and arrangements for the _____________ operation. (2) Went to _________camp; made tentative arrangements to start another operation which has been in the planning stages since December 1988. Final arrangements were made; mission is to commence on 6 April 1989. 4 April 1989 (1) The names of all agents involved in the __________ operation were divulged to us by our contact ____________. (2) Made another contact today, named __________ who claims to have a friend knowing where POWs are located. 6 April 1989 Who is going (1) _____ from the shop brought a man by who is going to Laos in one week to visit relatives. Intends to look for POW information; wanted to know the particulars about the reward. (2) Mr. ___________ called; wants to meet us to discuss the POW issue. (3) More work done on the _________ operation. We were given more information about one of the POWs. 7 April 1989 (1) Informer reports he has a friend who knows where a live Negro is, and wants to discuss this with us, Also had a copy of an ID card which belonged to a man killed in Laos. The Negro worked with him. Remains of other man available. (2) Two Thai. and one Lao came in to try to sell remains, also wanted particulars on the $2.4 million reward and how to get it. Mr. __________ is to bring dog-tags and remains here tomorrow. (3) __________ stopped by with a friend. Wants us to go to _______ to see eight sets of remains that his Lao friends are bringing out of Laos for us to see. 8 April 1989 More work on the operation ______ things looking good so far. High level official wants guarantees before coming out with the POWs (eight). 10 April 1989 (1) ______ came by today; very interesting conversation. He filled us in on all the good guys and bad guys working on this issue here. We know who was and is directly responsible for scamming Al Shinkle, Jeff Donahue, Jack Bailey, Bill Hendon, and many other Americans. These names check out on other list we have of highly professional scammers, (2) He also brought information about three POWs near Khe Sanh. (3) Talked to ________ she says several of her VN customers NAM VET Newsletter Page 57 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 tell here there are 150 POWs in VN now. 13 April 1989 ______ came by with the Major's name, who is one of two POWs presently held by _______ mountain people. These two are out of a group of 24; 22 have been moved to "Ho Chi Minh City" recently. Will get the names of the others ASP. 14 April 1989 _____________ came by with Lao friend who is leaving for Laos tomorrow to get the information I had requested on six POWs that his resistance group has maintained constant contact with. He guarantees pictures, fingerprints, letters from them all. 15 April 1989 (1) Checked out the so called Major (previously mentioned) turned out to be an E-4 Marine who is actually listed as captured. (Possible mix-up in the identity of the two POWs) (2) As requested, we went to see two of our informants who supposedly had information on six POWs out of a group of eight; two had died. They claim to be bare to get all information on the six. They also claim to be able to get all six out for 100,000 Baht each: (Approximately $4000.00 each). They also want 40,000 Baht for the information on the six POWs. (Looks like another scam). (3) _______ called, want us to meet with the two ________ villagers who have daily contact with the POW named _______________. These men are our direct contact with ____________________. 19 April 1989 (1) Visited by man from JCRC, discussed remains issue. Seems that much of the information we received is the same as what he has been getting for years (some is not). (2) Taxis driver named ______________ came by with dog-tag information while JCRC man was here; would not talk to us with our visitor here. 21 April 1989 (1) Discussed the issue with the head of ___________ for the entire province. He has a retired Col. friend in Laos at the moment getting information on one POW whom he knows personally. Will get information to us ASP. This friend is a _________ Army Intelligence officer. Very productive meeting with this official; cleared up many questions and fears about the Thai. Government. (2) Discussed the POW issue with the Deputy Minister of Health for all of Thailand. Was interested in our problem. also met and discussed issue with the Head Master of all rural schools; also interested. Made a few good points. 26 April 1989 (1) Received three visitors today; two X-border policemen, now police officers, They claim to know of 150 POWs, within the last year. Some of their friends tried to get four out recently and were nearly caught. Came to see if another attempt would be worth it or not. They also claim NAM VET Newsletter Page 58 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 to have access to a pilot with one hand missing. The village where the POWs are located in _______ near _______. Between _____ and _______ is the location of the cave where 150 POWs are being held (similar to other stories we have heard.) (2) Another informant came in today telling a similar story as above (location and etc.) 26 April 1989 (1) Another informant who has previously worked with us, came today. Is about to bring out POWs; wants to know if we want them delivered to us or should we arrange a pick-up. We told ________ we will make arrangements, just give us location and time. (2) Same agent claims to have three POWs, one of which is begging to be taken to Thailand and promises to send money back to them if he gets home to the states. 28 April 1989 ________ showed up again, still fishing; had dog-tag information. Claims his friends have a complete set of remains. Wants to sell all for 100,000 Baht. He also claims to know where 130 POWs have been brought together from VN, Laos, and Cambodia. They are checked on a daily basis by Soviet, Lao, and VN doctors. ____________ is alleged to be one of them. Under heavy guard, for a possible buy out by _______.(Rumor?) 1 May 1989 Had a conversation with an intelligence operator who claims to have had a conversation with the Lao Ambassador to Thailand for 1 1/2 hours. He was told that Laos had tried to sell 253 POWs to the U. S. for a certain amount of money in 1985 and had been turned down. 3 May 1989 One of our agents returned from Laos empty handed. Was very sad and disappointed. Seems he had convinced the guards to get the information that we had requested. They showed him a new picture with three POWs in T-shirts and shorts, two taller and balding, and one shorter with salt and pepper hair. Are being used as laborers and have several Lao guards. The guards got wise to what he wan doing and now want 400,000 Baht for all the information. (They also had finger prints and letters written by the POWs). We told him to go back and tell them to bring us the information first and if it checked out we would then talk deals--no money up front! Our man went back to take them the message. 5 May 1989 An update on a previous report, of which two reports are similar. Now hearing that 150 POWS are held in ________ in _______________ Province, near _____________. Seen in late 1988. All have had broken appendages and other ailments, are being prepared for a possible sale. Informant also says POWs are being held in ______ area still. Further follow-up on these reports will be difficult without funds. NAM VET Newsletter Page 59 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Upon my return to the U. S., I maintained contact with our interpreter whom I had left in charge until my relief arrived. Within two days of my return, I received word that one of the groups we had sent into Laos had returned with positive proof of POW existence, but would not give it to him. They would only talk to an American. *************, for whatever the reason, failed to or wasn't able to get another American into our base there for more than a month after I left. This, in my estimation, may have ultimately caused at least one American to have to spend the rest of his life in S. E. Asia as a Prisoner. There was another report that several Lao soldiers that we had been working with, had in fact brought an American to the river and waited three days for an American to come and finalize the deal. No one came and I'm afraid that man has been lost, at least temporarily. Much time and effort was put into developing a trust and relationship with certain agents, informers, and captors. Many promises had been made which would have insured a POW release. However, by not following through and having a constant presence of personnel on station, we failed. To me, this is inexplicable and a real shame. Since then ************* has sent another man to take over the operation. Hopefully he will be able to re-establish that trust and relationship with the proper people and the ultimate goal of the reparation of one or more Americans will be realized. CONCLUSION It should be evident by now, if you read any or all of the examples, that this is a very important effort being conducted in Thailand. It should not be taken lightly, and should be pursued with utmost urgency, in light of the upcoming pull-out of VN from Cambodia. If properly operated with good backing, both financially and with the proper personnel on station, there is a real possibility of getting one or more POWs out of S. E. Asia. There is also great potential for gathering information proving the existence of "Live Americans" being held against their will. This information hasn't been available to the general public prior to this effort, only the USG has had access to these types of reports on a scale this large. Even considering a 90+ percent probability of these reports being false, fraud, and scams, there is still enough credence to some of them to be believable. From my experience with different Lao resistance groups, Lao military, Lao refugees, Thai nationals, Thai military, Vietnamese, and even other Americans who are involved in S. E. Asia, there is not doubt in my mind or any of the other ************* personnel that were there that Americans are still being held against their will. In fact, at the latest count (as of 5 May 1989), there are 257 known Americans held in Laos and a total of around 500 in VN, Cambodia, and Laos. These numbers were derived from what I NAM VET Newsletter Page 60 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 consider to be a reliable source. By maintaining a constant presence in Thailand, this effort is accomplishing a very important function; we are in effect insuring the lives of the Americans being held captive by showing their captors and the world that they are valuable to them and us, and that they are not and will not be forgotten. NAM VET Newsletter Page 61 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 CASE SYNOPSIS: FRANCISCO, SAN DEWAYNE Name: San Dewayne Francisco Rank/Branch: Major USAF Unit: Date of Birth: 29 February 1944 Home City of Record: Burbank WA Loss Date: 25 November 1968 Country of Loss: North Vietnam Loss Coordinates: 172000N 1061200E Status (in 1973): Prisoner of War Category: 2 Acft/Vehicle/Ground: F4D Other Personnel In Incident: Joseph C. Morrison (missing) Remarks: VOICE CONTACT ON GROUND SYNOPSIS: Major San D. Francisco and Colonel Joseph Morrison were flying an F4D aircraft when it was lost on November 25, 1968. Both officers safely ejected from the plane and established radio contact on the ground with recovery forces. Their parachutes were spotted with 700 meters of a North Vietnamese encampment. Contact with Francisco was lost within a half hour. Morrison evaded successfully throughout the night, and re-established radio contact on the following day. Recovery was prevented, primarily by weather, and voice and beeper contact was lost. Both Morrison and Francisco were placed in Prisoner of War Status and expected to be released in 1973 when 591 Americans were freed from North Vietnamese prisons. A later coordination of records showed that Francisco and Morrison were both listed as Missing (not Prisoner) by Defense Intelligence Agency and the Air Force, while JCRC (Thailand) carried both Francisco and Morrison as Prisoner (not missing). JCRC was ordered to "delete any references pertaining to PW status" in Francisco's case. No order was issued at that time to change Morrison's status. The reasons behind the order are unclear. Thousands of reports of Americans alive in the hands of the Vietnamese have been received by the U.S. since the end of the war. Many government officials state that they believe Americans are currently being held against their will in Southeast Asia. The question is, who are they, and how will we bring them home? Is one of them Francisco? NAM VET Newsletter Page 62 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Bio of James Albert Champion by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 CASE SYNOPSIS: CHAMPION, JAMES ALBERT Name: James Albert Champion Rank/Branch: E3/US Army Unit: Company L (Ranger), 75th Infantry Regiment, assigned to 101st Airborne Division Date of Birth: 16 November 1949 Home City of Record: Houston TX Date of Loss: April 24, 1971 Country of Loss: South Vietnam Loss Coordinates: 161155N 1071930E (YC484923) Status (in 1973): Missing In Action Category: 2 Aircraft/Vehicle/Ground: Ground Other Personnel In Incident: Issako Malo (released POW); Marvin Duren (rescued); John Sly (killed); (one other team member, the medic, rescued); CWO Fred Behrens (from one of the helicopters, rescued) REMARKS: SYNOPSIS: James A. Champion was a member of a six-man radio Relay Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol being inserted for operation in a saddle at coordinates YC483923, Republic of on Vietnam April 23, 1971. After receiving intense ground fire from their primary landing zone on the west side of the A Shau Valley, the team was inserted into their alternate LZ. Taking the point, Team Leader Marvin Duren was severely wounded by automatic weapons fire, grenade and rifle fire, and was evacuated. His ATL, John Sly, was killed in action in a heroic attempt with the team medic to drag Duren out of the line of enemy fire. CWO Fred Behrens, the MEDEVAC "Dustoff" pilot, was a volunteer, having flown the mission because he felt his chances of succeeding in this hot LZ would be higher than other, newer pilots, but he was shot down during his second attempt to extract Sly from the LZ and found himself on the ground with the team. Several other helicopters with reinforcements were shot down by intense ground fire and Aero Rifle Platoon reinforcements were forced to withdraw and regroup due to heavy fire from the NVA. During the three day battle that began at 1500 hours on April 23, Rangers Champion and Issako Malo left the team's defensive perimeter to seek water. Behrens heard shots, and the two Rangers never returned. PFC Isaako F. Malo, was last seen at about 1600 hours on April 24. Champion was last seen on the morning of 25 April when he left the site of one of the downed helicopters to look for water. From April 25 through April 30, ground and aerial searches were made for Champion without success. Isaako Malo was confirmed captured, and after his release from captivity, he stated that he was captured on the morning of April 25, and at no time did he see PFC Champion in captivity. A reaction force from L/75 Rangers was inserted into the area and successfully drove the NVA elements away from the Ranger Team's position, and survivors were evacuated. No one ever told NAM VET Newsletter Page 63 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 the six-man team how large the enemy force was that they had been up against. However, it was a large enough force to warrant an Arclight strike by B-52 bombers. Evidence mounts that hundreds of Americans still missing in Southeast Asia are still alive, captive, waiting for their country to free them. James Champion may be one of them. NAM VET Newsletter Page 64 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Bio of Michael Louis Laporte by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 CASE SYNOPSIS: LAPORTE, MICHAEL LOUIS Name: Michael Louis Laporte Rank/Branch: E2/US Navy Unit: 1st Force Reconnaissance Co. 1st Force Recon Btn, 1st Marine Division Date of Birth: 21 August 1944 Home City of Record: Los Angeles CA (born Seattle WA) Date of Loss: 05 September 1967 Country of Loss: South Vietnam Loss Coordinates: 155500N 1075800E Status (in 1973): Missing In Action Category: 2 Aircraft/Vehicle/Ground: HCDROP Other Personnel In Incident: (none missing) REMARKS: LOST IN HELICOPTER DROP SYNOPSIS: Hospital Corpsman Chief Petty Officer Michael L. Laporte was assigned to the 1st Force Reconnaissance Company, 1st Reconnaissance Battalion, 1st Marine Division at Da Nang, South Vietnam. On September 3, 1967, Laporte was assigned as the team corpsman of a nine man reconnaissance patrol that was inserted by parachute into Happy Valley, Quang Nam Province, South Vietnam. Laporte was the number five man in the jump sequence. All nine parachutes opened, but a westerly wind of about 30 knots caused the team to drift. Laporte was seen by team members to be drifting out and beyond the others. This was the last time he was seen. He did not join the patrol as planned. The patrol conducted an immediate search with negative results. This was Laporte's 13th jump and he was very experienced in such operations, having been in country 2 years, with a request for another extension. It was generally believed that he was not injured in the jump and that he could evade capture. Later in the day, the patrol was hit by an enemy force of 5-6 Viet Cong. All the other patrol members were recovered. Laporte was listed Missing in Action. Over 8000 reports of Americans still held captive have been received since the end of the Vietnam war. Experts believe that hundreds of Amricans could still be alive, waiting and hoping that their country will someday bring them home. Through the years since Laporte disappeared, reports have filtered in that he was captured by the Viet Cong. In 1979, U.S. Marine PFC Robert Garwood was released from Vietnam, and related that he had known of Laporte. Garwood was held for some time at a POW camp at Happy Valley. According to Garwood, the camp guards called Laporte "Bill" and had brought him to Garwood's camp in June 1970. The last he heard, "Bill" was working as a laborer on a communal farm in North Vietnam near Quang Thien - in 1975 - two years after the U.S. Government declared that there was no reason to believe any POWs were still alive. Garwood was not debriefed by the U.S. Government for some 8 years after he was released, so his knowledge of "Bill" was quite dated by the time it was reluctantly received. Perhaps Laporte is NAM VET Newsletter Page 65 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 still alive, wondering if anyone remembers him - or cares. NAM VET Newsletter Page 66 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Bio of Timothy Roy Bodden by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 CASE SYNOPSIS: BODDEN, TIMOTHY ROY Name: Timothy Roy Bodden Rank/Branch: E5/US Marine Corps Unit: HMM 165, Marine Air Group 36 Date of Birth: 06 November 1942 Home City of Record: Downer's Grove IL Loss Date: 03 June 1967 Country of Loss: Laos Loss Coordinates: 161914N 1064049E (XD795050) Status (in 1973): Missing In Action Category: 2 Acft/Vehicle/Ground: CH46A Other Personnel In Incident: Frank E. Cius (returned POW 1973); Ronald J. Dexter; John G. Gardner; Stephen Hanson; Billy Laney; (all missing); Mr. Ky (Nung Cdr. - wounded and rescued); Charles F. Wilklow (rescued) REMARKS: LAST SEEN IN CRASHED AIRCRAFT SYNOPSIS: On June 3, 1967, Capt. Steven P. Hanson, pilot; 1Lt. John G. Gardner, co-pilot; Sgt. Timothy R. Bodden, crew chief/door gunner; LCpl. Frank E. Cius, doorgunner; SFC Billy R. Laney, SFC Ronald J. Dexter, SFC Charles F. Wilklow and an unknown number of ARVN personnel, all passengers, were aboard a CH46A helicopter (serial #150955) on an extraction mission in Laos. The USMC aircraft picked up a U.S. Army Special Forces team attached to MACV-SOG, Command and Control, and the ARVN troops they were working with. Military Assistance Command Vietnam Studies and Observation Group (MACV-SOG) was a joint service high command unconventional warfare task force engaged in highly classified operations throughout Southeast Asia. The 5th Special Forces channeled personnel into MACV-SOG (not a Special Forces group) through Special Operations Augmentation (SOA) which provided their "cover" while under secret orders to MACV-SOG. These teams performed deep penetration missions of strategic reconnaissance and interdiction which were called, depending on the time frame, "Shining Brass" or "Prairie Fire" missions. The aircraft received extensive automatic small arms fire upon takeoff from the Landing Zone, took numerous hits and crashed 350 meters from the LZ, located about 15 miles inside Laos west of the A Shau Valley. The helicopter did not burn on impact, and continued to receive fire. Three ARVN troops were able to return to the LZ where the troops remaining at the LZ were extracted the following day. The troops waiting at the LZ could not search because of the hostile threat in the area. Air searches located the survivors of the crash, but they could not be evacuated. The only American found to be in a position to be safely evacuated was SFC Wilklow. He gave the following account of what happened to the crew and passengers aboard the CH46: SFC Dexter appeared uninjured and left the wreckage with a large number of ARVN troops. Capt. Hanson was wounded and outside the helicopter, but stated that he had to return to get his carbine. The Marine Corps believes he died of the wounds he received when NAM VET Newsletter Page 67 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 the aircraft was overrun, although Hanson's wife later identified her husband in a widely distributed Vietnamese propaganda photograph of a pilot being captured. When last seen, all the other Americans were still in the wreckage, and enemy troops (the U.S. Army says they were Viet Cong; the U.S. Marines say they were North Vietnamese Army - possibly a joint force of both) were tossing grenades toward the aircraft with no attempt to capture the personnel inside. Wilklow left the crash site, and noted that gunfire suddenly stopped. He continued to evade the enemy and was picked up 3 days later. When Mr. Ky, the Nung Commander was being evacuated by the last helicopter out, he noted several men (undoubtedly Dexter and the ARVN) in a large bomb crater firing red star clusters from a flare gun. Frank Cius was taken prisoner and released from Hanoi in 1973. He was one of the dozen or so captured by the Vietnamese and taken immediately to Hanoi claimed to be the "Laos" prisoners. In reality, none of the dozen had been held in Laos. Ronald Dexter, according to Frank Cius, was captured, and died in captivity on July 29, 1967. John Gardner, according to the USMC, died on the ground after the crash of the aircraft due to intense enemy fire. Billy Laney was last seen lying wounded on the floor of the aircraft between a crewmember with a broken back and the door gunner with a head wound. NOTE: the USMC states that Bodden, crewchief/door gunner was shot in the back and never left the aircraft, but reports received by the National League of Families indicate that he was definitely alive after the aircraft crashed. The U.S. did not know Cius was captured until he was released, evidently believing he never exited the aircraft, and Wilklow had indicated that the Vietnamese were not trying to capture the occupants of the aircraft. Therefore, as door gunner, he must have been the "door gunner with the head wound", and Bodden the "crewmember with a broken back".) Since 1975, the U.S. Government has received thousands of reports relating to Americans still alive in Southeast Asia. Many of them cannot be dismissed as untrue. Officially, the U.S. says it is operating under the assumption that men are being held, and that the matter is of "highest national priority". Yet, we seem unable to resolve the mystery. Nor have they ever negotiated for the "tens of tens" of American prisoners the Lao stated they held. There can be no question that the communists know the fate of those who were last seen on the ill-fated CH 46A that day. The men aboard this craft were inserted into Laos for exceedingly dangerous and important missions. They deserve no less than America's very best efforts to determine their fates. If any of them are alive, they must be brought home. NAM VET Newsletter Page 68 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 W W M M W W M M M M W W \ / M M M M OOOO W W W --*-- M M M IIII O O W W W W / \ M M II O O W W W W M M II O O W W M M II O O II PPPPPP O O ..... II AA PP PP OOOO . '' '' .. IIII A A PP PP ..' '.. A A PPPPPPP ..' ''. A A PP ..' '. AAAAAA PP .' ''. A A PP .' '. A A .' .:::::.. '. .' .::::::::::. ' .' .::::::::::::::. '. .' __ .::::::::::::::::;:... '. .' _- -_ .:::::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' _-_ _ _ -_ ::::::::::::::::::::::::' '. .. _- -!!___!!!-_:::::::::::::::::::::::. .. .' ==_ _- _= .:::::::::::::::::::::::: ', . =-_= _= = :::::::::::::::::::::::: . .' =-_ =_- = ::::::::::::::::::::::: '. .' = - -_ =_:::::::::::::::::::::. '. .' -_ -_- .:::::::::::::::::::;;;. '. .' _-_ ..::::::::::::::::::::::::; '. . _ _ .:;:::::::::::::::::::::;, . ' _ .:::::::::::::::::::::::::. '. Y .'.....::::::::::::::::::::::::::;' '. N ::::::::::::::::::::::::' `''' ': O `::::::::::::::::::::::: \v/ \ / :'E `:::::::::::::::::::::: =========================== :' U `:::::::::::::::::::::. /^\ \ :'T `:::::::::::::::::::: .: A `:::::::::::::::::: .:'T `::::::::::::::::::. .;' R `:::::::::::::::::. .;' T `::::::::::::::::. .;' E `:::::::::gjp::: .:' O `:::::::::::::...........'' G N O T F O R " Bring them home --- NOW !!! " NAM VET Newsletter Page 69 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= ' N a m T o d a y . . . ================================================================= ASIA MONITOR ON OXFAM REPORT RE VIETNAMESE REFUGEES IN HONG KONG The following is a report from Oxfam Hong Kong on the situation concerning Vietnamese Boat People in Hong Kong. Oxfam is interested in gauging the interest and usefulness of this kind of report. Any comments or feedback can be sent care of the Asia Monitor Resource Center Hong Kong mailbox: PEG.AMRC SITUATION REPORT ON VIETNAMESE REFUGEES AND BOAT PEOPLE (August - September 1989) Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY (718) 448-2358 (A) Summary of the HK Present Situation: In accordance with the understanding reached at the 1979 United Nations Conference on Vietnamese boat people, Hong Kong has established and operated a policy of providing first asylum to all arrivals. On 2 July 1982, the Hong Kong Government implemented a closed centre policy in response to the substantial arrival of Vietnamese refugees in the early eighties, hoping that would deter an influx of refugees. However, the policy did not work. From 16 June 1988, a new screening policy on Vietnamese boat people has been implemented whereby all new arrivals will be subject to a refugee status determination procedure. All asylum seekers arriving in Hong Kong after that day are accommodated in detention centres pending screening, and all those asylum seekers who have been determined by the screening process as non-refugees (i.e. economic emigrants) will also be detained in these centres pending repatriation to Vietnam. Up to 21 Sept 1989, a total of 13,213 Vietnamese refugees (including 384 VBP have been screened in as refugees) and 42,870 Vietnamese boat people (including 3,420 screen-outs) are staying in Hong Kong. The total number is 56,083. 1. Massive influx of boat people from March to August this year: - Statistics on the arrival of Vietnamese boat people (VBP) are as follows: (a) Arrival of VBP from March to September, 1987-89 1987 1988 1989 March 104 349 842 April 136 1381 2918 May 85 2974 9194 June 405 4043 9663 July 724 5561 4296 August 738 2375 4443 September 285 368 785 (up to 24 Sept) NAM VET Newsletter Page 70 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 (b) Trend of the VBP arrival and resettlement: Arrival Resettlement 1980 6788 37468 1981 8470 17818 1982 7836 9247 1983 3651 4200 1984 2230 3694 1985 1112 3953 1986 2055 3816 1987 3395 2212 1988 18328 2772 1989 (up to 32611 2715 24/9/89) * Ethnic origins of arrivals: Almost all the arrivals since 1980 (98%) have been ethnic Vietnamese. In 1979 only 27% of arrivals were Vietnamese and the rest were Chinese. Since 1980 the balance between north and south Vietnamese has also changed with the proportion of northerners steadily increasing. In 1984, 28% came from the northern part of Vietnam. In 1985, the proportion was 37%; in 1986, 53%; and the figure in 1987 was 70%. The proportion of northerners has increased to 72.2% during 1988 and to 91.1% during 1989. 2. Local hostility: - three large-scale demonstrations were held in the mid-Sept 1989. More actions against the first asylum policy are likely. - these kinds of protests were mainly organized by the local community leaders and politicians. Hundreds of people took to the streets, and called for the end of first asylum policy and a firm commitment to mandatory repatriation. - these demonstrations should not be regarded as a kind of anti-Vietnamese action. Rather, it is evidence of growing discontent at the hypocrisy of the international communities handling of the refugee situation. 3. Situation of the security units: - the security units include the Correctional Services Department (CSD) and the Royal Hong Kong Police. They are required to man the Vietnamese boat people detention centres. The police, however, do not have any authority to enforce any camp discipline or routine. The police have no legal authority, no training or orientation, no extra equipment or facilities, and insufficient interpreters to manage the camps. They fear attack by the Vietnamese inmates. Needless to say, the morale of the police is low in the camps. - Our observation reveals that the staff shortage of the CSD is serious. They appear however to be more experienced in dealing with the boat people and their experience of a correctional approach is evident. 4. The United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR): - UNHCR is criticized by the HK media, the general public and foreign press for being out of touch. Mr. Robert Van Leeuwen, chief of UNHCR, said that they would give the first priority to the Chinese press in order to strengthen the ties between UNHCR and the public, nothing seems to have improved at the moment. - Relations between UNHCR and security units is relatively NAM VET Newsletter Page 71 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 poor. It is generally found that UNHCR is only saying words without deeds. UNHCR has the responsibility for coordination amongst various voluntary agencies working in the camps but so far this has fallen short of expectations. 5. Camp situation: (a) Disturbances, escapees, crimes and hunger strike: - Several disturbances in the detention centres have occurred in the past three months. Disturbances reported to the public are as follows: July 23-24 Sek Kong Detention Centre July 31 - Aug 1 Shamshuipo Detention Centre August 11 Whitehead Detention Centre August 27-28 Tai Ah Chau August 29 Stonecutters September 1-2 Sek Kong September 1 Lowu September 16 Sek Kong September 27 Whitehead - A hunger strike at Chi Ma Wan detention centre lasted for five days, from September 12 to 17. A total of 120 hunger-strikers were involved. They protested against being screened out on appeal as economic migrants and demanded to see US consular staff. - numbers of boat people have escaped from the different detention centres. Some of them went to other refugee camps while others have hidden elsewhere in the territory. - the Police have stated that the rate of crime committed by the Vietnamese in HK is higher than the general crime rate of the territory. - Disturbances, crimes and escapes have led to the growing hostility of the general public. (c) Refugee camps: - With the implementation of the new screening policy on 16 June 1988, the HK government announced the gradual liberalisation of the closed camps. It is the HK government's intention to transform the closed centres into open centres and place them under the management of the UNHCR. Refugees in the open centre have complete freedom of movement and are allowed to take up employment. - To date, only two refugee camps are managed by the UNHCR. But UNHCR will take over the Bowring closed centre in November and will transform it into an open camp. Sham Shui Po and San Yick closed centres will be closed next year. In other words, UNHCR will take over all the refugee camps and accomplish what has been promised in the previous agreement (i.e. made on September 1988) with HK government. (d) Detention centres: - VBP who are living in ferries or other unfavorable centres will probably be moved into other detention centres such as Whitehead and High Island. Both of them are used for permanent VBP holding centres but they are still under construction. They will become the two major detention centres in HK. The maximum capacity of Whitehead detention centre will be 30,000 while High Island will be over 7,000. - There is no plan to build any other major detention centre in the near future because of the local hostility. Mr. Mike Hanson, the Refugee Coordinator of the HK government, said that the newcomers will very probably be kept in Tai Ah chau if the massive influx of VBP continues next year. But its NAM VET Newsletter Page 72 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 capacity has not yet been determined. (B) Recent Development of Cholera Outbreak: 1. On 8 Sept 1989, the cholera outbreak was claimed to be under control by the Department of Health. According to data from the Government Information Services on 25 Sept, all the patients suffering from cholera were discharged. A total of 21 cases were confirmed, the youngest of whom was an eight- month-old boy. After the outbreak, about 95 per cent of the boat people from Tai Ah Chau have taken the oral preventive medicine against cholera. 2. All the 4,500 boat people on Tai Ah Chau were moved to Hei Ling Chau Detention Centre (HLC) on 11 Sept, hoping the cholera among the boat people can be contained by holding them in quarantine on Hei Ling Chau. The original 3,000 inhabitants on HLC were then evacuated to the Whitehead detention centre in Shatin. HLC, in fact, has been used to accommodate Vietnamese refugees for years and has more facilities for the VBP such as water supply, electricity, toilet, cooking facilities and the like. In other words, their living conditions have improved. However, it is worth noting that the maximum capacity of HLC is merely 2,880. This means the camp has to cope with 50 per cent overcrowding. Also, conditions for people moved out of HLC to Whitehead 2C have worsened. 3. Tai Ah Chau island camp will not be closed after a cleanup, and will probably be used as a reception centre, with maximum capacity of 1,200. The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) is studying the possibility of taking over and running Tai Ah Chau as a centre to house newly-arrived Vietnamese boat people. The capacity of this centre has not yet been determined, ranging from 1,200 to 20,000. If so, the Vietnamese will be involved in the day-to-day running of their lives with the assistance of aid agencies. The police presence will be minimal, along the lines of any normal community. Nevertheless, Mr. Mike Hanson, the Refugee Coordinator of Hong Kong Government, pointed out a lot of problems that will be faced by UNHCR. These include: first, how to supply electricity, clean water and other basic facilities in a barren island; second, how to provide the daily necessities to an outlying island; third, how to handle the inhabitants during the typhoon season; fourth, what is the maximum capacity of the centre; fifth, the security problem. 4. Nevertheless, between the beginning of the month and Sept 25, 115 cases of malaria were diagnosed from the former Tai Ah Chau inmates, and another 100 are believed to have symptoms of the disease. (C) Progress of the voluntary repatriation, screening and resettlement: - voluntary repatriation appears to be unsuccessful at the moment. Only 264 people have returned to Vietnam under this scheme, with 730 still in the pipeline. There is no shortage of voluntary returnees at the moment. UNHCR said that problem is mainly due to the slow pace of the Vietnam's screening process. - the process of screening has been speeded up. About 400 VBP can be screened every week. However, the prime concern of the UNHCR is the fairness of the screening procedure. NAM VET Newsletter Page 73 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 - the process of resettlement is still slow. Although Britain has promised to take 2,000 refugees over the next three years, the last quota of 468 which should have been taken from HK by the end of June still remain to date. Consequently, HK people generally believe that HK people are let down by British government. - So far this year, Canada leads the table for resettlement having taken 1,080 refugees, while the United States has taken 710 and Australia 419. The expected figure of resettlement for Vietnamese refugees this year is: Canada 1,800, US 1,000 and Australia at least 700. But historically, US has taken more refugees than any other country. (D) Oxfam HK plans for the future: - staff and working group members visited three detention centres, including Whitehead, Sek Kong and Chi Ma Wan, in September. The facilities in Whitehead and Chi Ma Wan are basically sufficient as compared to others. The atmosphere is more peaceful and calm. Relations between security unit, Correctional Services Department (CSD) and VBP are fairly good and cooperative. But in Sek Kong, the atmosphere is tense. Policemen are generally afraid of being attacked by the Vietnamese inhabitants. Thus, the main concern of the police force serving there is to safeguard themselves rather than fulfil the basic needs of the VBP. Meanwhile, it was found that most of the adult VBP, especially the single young men, had nothing to do in Sek Kong detention centre. Children were walking around without schooling and toys. The situation in Sek Kong was quite primitive in this sense and more services should be provided immediately. - based upon these findings, Oxfam HK hopes to support more projects in detention centres. In the very near future, we will work with HK government and other voluntary agencies to have a large-scale winter clothing collection for the VBP. Source: PeaceNet reg.seasia NAM VET Newsletter Page 74 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Campaign Formed to End U.S. Support of the Khmer Rouge by: Charles Scheiner (igc:cscheiner) January 26, 1990 Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY (718) 448-2358 As the Vietnamese military withdrawal from Cambodia nears completion, and as international maneuvering around the future of this decimated country seems to take a new turn every week, a coalition of U.S. organizations has come together to form the Campaign to Protect Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge. U.S. economic, moral, and political support for the Khmer Rouge and Prince Sihanouk is the latest atrocity in more than three decades of American horrors inflicted on the people of Indochina. It sabotages sincere, hopeful efforts to prevent escalation of the Cambodian civil war and facilitates a reprise of the genocide of 1975-78, when over 1,000,000 Cambodians were killed. Official obsession with Vietnam, combined with support for the Chinese regime, has blinded the Bush Administration not only to issues of humanity and justice (not unusual), but also to what best serves American interests. Even within the media and liberal establishment, there is consensus against U.S. support for the Khmer Rouge. But the peace movement, by and large, has been silent. The Campaign to Protect Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge will fill a vacuum, providing the vehicle for concerned Americans to work to change U.S. policy. Initiated by some Boston activists, the one-year campaign was kicked off at a Washington meeting on January 12-13, attended by 75 people from more than 35 organizations. The meeting, which included peace, religious, development, refugee relief, Vietnam veterans, solidarity, Cambodian- American, and human rights groups, unanimously agreed that the Khmer Rouge can have no place in Cambodia's future, and that covert and overt U.S. government support for any Cambodian formation which includes the Khmer Rouge must stop. The Campaign adopted the following Statement of Belief: We believe that the Cambodian people have a right to self-determination and to a free, neutral, and independent Cambodia. The Cambodian people must decide their own political future. However, we also believe that the Khmer Rouge, as a political/military entity which has engaged in genocide against the Cambodian people, has no moral right to a place in the future of Cambodia. We believe that the policy of the United States government should support a settlement of the Cambodian crisis based on the exclusion of the Khmer Rouge. Because of the diverse membership of the Campaign, more specific U.S. policy objectives are still under discussion. The campaign will incorporate some revision of the following goals, with a NAM VET Newsletter Page 75 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 structure that allows some church-based and Cambodian-American groups to participate without explicitly endorsing the goals: - Vote to exclude the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea (Sihanouk's CGDK) - dominated by the Khmer Rouge - from the U.N., leaving the seat empty pending a negotiated settlement. - End diplomatic support and de facto recognition of the CGDK as the legitimate government of Cambodia. - Press the U.N. and Thailand to establish a neutral refugee site with adequate international support, guarantee freedom of movement (including the option of voluntary repatriation) to all Cambodians in all camps along the Thai-Cambodian border. [Many of these camps are Khmer Rouge bases and recruiting centers.] - Provide humanitarian support and aid through the U.N., only to civilian camps to which no military force has access. - End all U.S. aid funnelled through the U.N. to the military camps, military personnel, and officials of the Khmer Rouge and its allies. - End all covert U.S. aid and operations on the Thai-Cambodian border. - Withhold overt U.S. aid of all forms from any group allied with the Khmer Rouge. - Use U.S. influence with Thailand to end the critical collaboration of the Thai military with the Khmer Rouge through logistical and combat support, deliveries of Chinese weapons, providing sanctuary, and forcing refugees to live under Khmer Rouge rule. - Provide immediate humanitarian and development aid to help people in Cambodia as they rebuild their lives. - End the U.S. economic embargo against Cambodia. - Pressure China to end their support of the Khmer Rouge. - Support an international tribunal to try the Khmer Rouge leadership for genocide. The Campaign adopted a three-level structure, with Sponsors (organizations who will actively carry out the campaign, and donate money or other resources), Endorsers (organizations or individuals who publicly support the campaign), and Networkers (who will work with the campaign, but cannot publicly identify with it or support all goals). There be two advisory committees -- one of notable public figures, and another of leading members of the Cambodian-American community. An office, with paid staff, will be opened in Washington; AFSC, Oxfam, and the Federation of American Scientists have each committed $5,000 to get the campaign started. More money will be needed, and the Asia Resource Center can accept tax-deductible contributions, earmarked "Cambodia Project." A Steering Committee will guide the campaign, and other committees will deal with outreach, Congressional strategy, and different regions or constituencies. Among the tactics under consideration are a newspaper advertisement, grassroots education, Congressional lobbying, media outreach (including the use of the new video Year Ten), and working with the refugee relief and Cambodian-American communities. The January 13 Paris meeting on Cambodia was happening as the NAM VET Newsletter Page 76 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Campaign was forming, and the Steering Committee telegraphed Secretary of State James Baker and issued a press release. Anne Gallivan of Boston, an organizer of the Campaign, said "Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge practically destroyed Cambodia and the Cambodian people, and yet the Bush administration provides these killers critical material and diplomatic support through a variety of channels." Until the Washington office opens, the Campaign can be reached c/o AFSC, 2161 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge MA 02140. Phone contact can be made through Paul Shannon (617/497-5273), Ros Winsor (617/566-5215), or Kathy Knight (617/965-2422), or through me on Peacenet (igc:cscheiner). Source: PeaceNet cdp:reg.seasia NAM VET Newsletter Page 77 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 PEACE BRIGADES INTERNATIONAL IN SE ASIA Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY (718) 448-2358 Peace Brigades International, a Gandhian organization which works in areas of violence around the world, is currently involved in or developing, projects in Sri Lanka, and Burma. Peace Brigades sends unarmed peace teams invited into areas of violent repression or conflict. These teams can flexibly pursue avenues not open to governments or political groups. Their work is to reduce the violence and support local social justice initiatives through a)protective accompaniment of those whose lives are threatened; b)fostering reconciliation and peace dialogue among conflicting parties; and c) educating and training in nonviolence and human rights. Projects being developed/overseen out of P.B.I.'s SE Asia section are a presence in refugee camps on the Burmese/Thai border, and a reconstruction/reconciliation team in Sri Lanka. BROAD BASED SUPPORT MAKES THESE PROJECTS POSSIBLE. Contact: International Secretariat Peace Brigades International 4722 Baltimore Avenue Philadelphia, Penn. USA (215) 724-1464/727-0989 Source: PeaceNet reg.seasia NAM VET Newsletter Page 78 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= R e m e m b e r T h e m ! ! ! ================================================================= Vietnam -- The Forgotten Warriors By Jack Jones Rochester, NY Democrat And Chronicle Input by: Terry Hayes Waterloo, New York Groveland - They tried to talk about the angry and shameful and confusing things inside them when they were 20 years old and first home from the jungles of Vietnam. But nobody wanted to listen then. In their forties now, they're talking and listening to each other in a barracks-style dormitory like those they shared behind barbed-wire perimeters at base camps in Southeast Asia, obeying orders to wage one of their nation's most divisive wars. But this time, instead of Army green they're wearing prison green - and they're behind a razor-wire perimeter at Groveland Correctional Facility. "I'm 43 and it's the first time I've been in prison and it's devastating," said Edward Spinner. "But for the first time in my life, I've got somebody to talk to about all this garbage I've been carrying around for the past 23 years. Most of us here in this room are over 40 and we're in prison for the first time - because of the amount of anger that built up inside us for so long over Vietnam." Spinner, serving a three-year sentence for a crime he would only describe as "a violent felony," is one of the 30 veterans participating in a unique and intensive residential therapy program at this medium security prison in Livingston County. The men live and sleep side-by-side, as they did in Vietnam, and spend most of their days and nights walking with each other through the nightmares and psychological minefields of the past. Unlike most felons, who embark early on a criminal career and wind up behind bars in their youth, "these men are not your career criminals," said prison counselor David Warne, who established and coordinates the Veterans Residential Therapeutic Program at Groveland. "These incarcerated veterans are truly the forgotten warriors of Vietnam," said Warne. "A lot of them just finally lost control after using drugs and alcohol for more than 20 years to block out the memories of the day their buddy's brains got blown all over their face. "They're offenders who did something wrong, and they've got to be punished for their crimes. But they also have special needs. They're also the same men who fought and bled in Southeast Asia. And finally, after 20 or 25 years, they're back together as a team, working with a common objective - to finally help each other work out the problems that put them here." Walking through the veterans' dormitory at Groveland is a walk down the corridors of memory to a military barracks in Vietnam on an inspection day. Rosaries and religious medallions hang like dogtags from chains that are draped across the ends of tightly made bunks. Framed snapshots of wives, girlfriends and children smile from the NAM VET Newsletter Page 79 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 nightstands that also hold Father's Day cards, birthday greetings and other mementoes of "the world". Floors and walls are polished to a mirror-like shine in a dust-free dormitory that has the look and smell of a well-kept hospital ward. "You can definitely see they've had military training," said Robert Dickerson, a corrections officer and Vietnam veteran assigned to guard his former comrades. "They keep their living quarters cleaner than most people keep their kitchens. They seem to be better able than most of the prisoners to handle their own problems and take care of themselves." Dickerson, who served with the Marines in Vietnam in 1969 and 1970, said that being a veteran helps him communicate and keep order among the prisoners he's assigned to guard. "I guess I can kind of understand some of their problems and relate to them better," he said. "I know what they've been through." As a former New York City firefighter and a former marine Corps reconnaissance sergeant behind enemy lines in Vietnam from 1965 until he was wounded in 1969, Robert Gardner has been through more than most of the inmates. Gardner, 44, has been imprisoned at Groveland for 16 months on a three-year sentence stemming from charges of robbery and unlawful imprisonment - of some Vietnamese people. "The drugs finally got to me and I took over a leather store that some Vietnamese people run in Westchester (County)," he said. "It happened because of Vietnam and drugs." Like the other veterans, Gardner said he never had a chance to unburden himself of the memories of fighting and killing in Vietnam. And even though he returned to action and danger as a firefighter after being released from a Veterans Administration hospital, he turned to drugs to dull the unquiet memories of war. "There's no doubt in my mind, if we'd had something like this program so we could talk this stuff out when we came back from Vietnam. I wouldn't be here today." Gardner said. "I don't think many of us would." Even though he spent 18 months in VA hospitals - including nine months for depression and drugs - "the treatment we got was mostly just to be given more drugs and put back out on the street without counseling for any of the problems that put us there," he said. "You've got to keep in mind the way this country and the VA treated us when we came home." Since joining the residential therapy program at Groveland when it began last October, Gardner and other veterans say they've "come 180 degrees in the way we think about ourselves and what happened in Vietnam." "The camaraderie, working together, helping each other - it's almost like being back in the platoon," he said. "It's vets helping vets." "We saw a lot of violence, a lot of it needless violence," said Justo Rosa, who fought with the First Infantry in 1971 and 1972. "And most of us, we were just kids, 17, 18, 19 years old at the time." "We were trained to kill, and then we were sent back home but we were never untrained. When we came back, they made us feel ashamed of being a Vietnam veteran. If we hadn't been in Vietnam at such an early age, maybe all that anger and stress wouldn't have been with us. Maybe I wouldn't be here now at this time in my life for committing a NAM VET Newsletter Page 80 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 violent felony." "Maybe I wouldn't be here either," said Thomas Sanford. "But because of this vets program, being here had helped me find a part of myself I thought was lost." And Warne said he and other officials inside and outside the prison are taking steps to help the veterans stay in touch with the "parts they thought were lost," after the men pay their debt to society and return to their communities. At Groveland, the former soldiers attend daily counseling sessions where they confront their lingering anger and aggression and issues of shame and guilt that have clouded their relationships, destroyed their marriages, alienated their children and disrupted their careers. Canandaigua Veterans Affairs psychologist Roger Lyman and VA nurse James Robinson, also a Vietnam veteran, have joined volunteer counselors from local chapters of Vietnam Veterans of America and the Veterans Outreach Center in Rochester who meet with the Groveland veterans once a week. "The residential aspects and the intensive counseling these guys are getting is something that's unique and progressive," said Lyman. "The residential aspect of the program makes an enormous amount of good sense. It's just a shame they had to go to prison to get it." Lyman, who heads the post-traumatic stress disorder treatment clinic for veterans at the Canandaigua VA, said he and other psychologists will provide follow-up counseling for the Groveland veterans after their release from prison. The imprisoned veterans said that getting out - and staying out - of prison is what their intensive program is about. "Being with a group of people like this, learning to trust again, it's a real important experience," said Jerry Bates, 42 of Elmira, an infantryman in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969. "It's the closest I've got to people since my friend from Watkins Glen stepped on a land mine and I watched him die in Vietnam. You just don't get close to people after something like that. And you never forget it. "But getting on with our lives outside this place is what we're all about in this group. There's no substitute for being free." NAM VET Newsletter Page 81 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 INTERVIEW A VET -- BEHIND BARS by Daniel Suvak Source: CCCO News Notes, Fall 1989, Vol 41, No 3 Published by: CCCO, 2208 South Street, Philadelphia, PA 19146 CCCO is a center for draft and military counseling. For more information, call Lou Ann Merkle at 215-545-4626 Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D. NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY (718) 448-2358 Vietnam vets in prison. The phrase fixes a clear image: Burned-out, wild-eyed, subdued and maybe sedated by ready to go on a rampage at any moment. And don't forget the fashion statement -- buttons, bandanas, medals, and insignia salvaged and worn in pride, defiance, or uncertainty. Bertrand Russell hated national stereotypes. Said they had a dangerous tendency to lead us to prejudgment. His warning is well-advised, and it's doubly true for stereotyping vets in prison. On a cold, sunny winter day in rural Western Ohio I learned that lesson and found that prisons could be places of healing. It started with CCCO's "Interview a Vet" contest. I knew the contest was intended to help young folks to think about the implications of joining the military. Dave, a prisoner in Lima, Ohio, saw a chance to bring together imprisoned veterans and young people to discuss matters of deepest consequence to both. Dave is struggling to keep together a chapter of the Vietnam Veterans of America in his temporary prison residence. It has been almost 20 years since the war, and he sees people still suffering and even dying from it -- from inside. He knows those who most need to talk about it are the ones who won't even admit they're veterans. Dave wrote CCCO after the first year of the contest. He figured that some young people may want to enter the contest, but they might not know any veterans. Dave was shepherding a whole company of vets, a few of them ready to share their story, and many more needing some encouragement to do so. He said that if any young contestant needed a veteran to talk to, members of his group would be happy to be of service. Due to their imprisonment, the entrants would have to do the traveling. Lou Ann Merkle at CCCO was stopped cold. A flood of paperwork crosses her project-laden desk, but this letter took a powerful hold on her spirit. She contacted the prison authorities and met with discouragement and delays. It would have been easy to give up and forget about this request; God knows it's hard enough for the small staff at CCCO to manage the contest and everything else going on now. Lou Ann saw that this person writing from the lockup was doing something worthwhile and needed support. She tried again and was discouraged. Then she thought of an old friend who lived closer to the prison, had worked in the state correctional system a few years ago, and would have the opportunity to recruit a few college students who might want to NAM VET Newsletter Page 82 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 learn about Vietnam from some people who had been there. She called me. Based at a small liberal arts college in Ohio, I felt it would be easy to gather a contingent of students to visit the Lima prison, talk to the veterans there, and come back with stories for the contest essay. It was easy. A small but enthusiastic band of students responded to a classroom talk on the prison and the contest. One student was past the contest age limit but decided to go anyway. We departed very early in the morning on the second Saturday in February. We coaxed the school's aging diesel Suburban wagon into life, packed the box lunches in the back, clambered in, and hit the road -- five students, John, the sociology professor, and I. During the four-hour drive across Ohio we got acquainted. Most of the students were in their early 20s and their knowledge of Vietnam was spotty. The sociologist and I coached them on a few key facts and major events, but the students' main concern was the encounter they were about to have with the prisoners. Their anxieties ranged from fear of harm to worries about an awkward social situation. What will I say? How should I react? Am I up to this? They were doing all the right things to prepare -- asking questions, playing roles, and supporting each other. Finally, they felt bolstered enough to try. We got off the freeway, spotted the sign: "LIMA CORRECTIONAL FACILITY," wheeled down the driveway, and parked. Time for a minor setback. The sprawling prison was ringed by a double fence topped with concertina wire. The sharp angular steel blades of the coiled wire glistened in the cold winter sun. This was a prison. It was serious. There are compelling reasons why people were sent here. Nervous laughter punctuated the talk, now faster and higher- pitched, and there were jokes about going back. We kept moving and entered the outbuilding for screening. Our papers were in order, and after a metal detector search, our escort took us into the main building, through the lobby, past the visiting room, and into a wing of the prison containing activities rooms and offices. We left the outside world and were rubbing shoulders with prisoners on their Saturday errands -- hearing their jokes and complaints. The prisoners were sizing up their visitors and seemed to approve the fact that it wasn't another "zoo tour," but a group with a real purpose. After a moment in the corridor, our escort led us to the room reserved for the day's interviews. It was a beautiful solarium, with plants and bay windows. The afternoon sun splashed in and softened the atmosphere. Dave, our contact prisoner and head of the veteran's group, led in his band of volunteers. We exchanged greetings and stood nervously for a moment. Then the prisoners offered us some of their "street" coffee, a gesture of genuine hospitality. We broke into groups for the interviews and got down to business. NAM VET Newsletter Page 83 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 The words flowed. For most of us, that afternoon will remain one of those lifetime-memorable, perhaps pivotal encounters. But we came from different perspectives. Now 41, I was opposed to the draft in the late 1960s. At the time, I had a strong personal motivation to closely scrutinize the political context of the war. I, like many of my cohorts, rejected our government's policy. Now I was talking to two men who went to Vietnam for the simplest of reasons: they felt they should fulfill an obligation to the country. After two decades, punctuated by books, articles, editorials, films and long periods of inattention, I felt a healing. This personal exchange of words restored in me a connection between those who opposed the war and those who fought it. Yes, it was the wrong war, but many honest souls fought it for a true, ever so humble reason -- doing one's duty. Most of the students had a similar reaction. They accepted the decision to join the service to avoid violating the law and, career-minded themselves, understood the personal gains of military service -- employment, training, and benefits. More importantly, they could also accept and respect those who did their duty, and even had a little awe of their bravery. These young students were never opposed to the war and were puzzled by society's reaction -- no parades, no welcome home. Hours of interviews flew by. As the afternoon waned, our participants exchanged addresses and said goodbye. We headed for home as the prisoners filed back to their cells. The students seemed more matured, more subdued. They enlivened the return trip with continuous, open exchange. We stopped for dinner at a small- town lounge, and the ... classmates hit the dance floor [as if] to assure themselves they were back. The undergraduates' reactions highlighted a need for careful preparation and follow-up to help them get the most out of encounters of this type. The political and historical context of the war were important to young people in the 1960s, but they do not surface as major issues during these interviews. Questions of self-assurance, duty, honor, and bravery are more likely to arise, and they can have a very powerful pull on one's emotions -- overriding any rational understanding of the war, its causes and campaigns. The session was memorable because the young participants got new perspectives in a personal way, while veterans were able to speak their minds to willing, respectful listeners. The interchange helped both groups examine their life's courses. These are very powerful and timely ideas, especially now that national service proposals are mounting and a draft seems waiting in the wings. Students need preparation to deal with these potent issues, and should be able to explore their reactions in a guided setting afterward. Experiences such as the one at Lima provide a foundation for reflective discussion. Key questions would include: What is one's duty to the state? To whom is this duty owed? If there is such a duty, does one perform it only when coerced? In NAM VET Newsletter Page 84 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 sum: What is an honorable life? There is little doubt we will be able to use these valuable lessons. A contingent of students that missed the trip has asked for one next Spring, and wants to see it become an annual tradition. Notably, the most interested students are not the "peace and social justice" types on campus, but come mainly from two groups: those studying social institutions, and those with career interests closely related to this type of experience, especially pre-law majors. Natural curiosity and self-interest provide the motivation for a trip as risky as this one. Whatever the incentive, the unexpected benefits were the true reward. Ask the students. ------ NAM VET Newsletter Page 85 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX \ \ \ \ \XXXX XXXXX XXXXX.::::::::::::::.XXXXX INCARCERATED XXXX XXXXX XXXXX --------- XXXXX \ \ \ \ \ \ \XXXX XXXXX .XXXXX W W I I XXXXX. VETERANS \ \XXXX XXXXX ::XXXXX --------- XXXXX::. \ \ \ \ XXXX XXXXX :::XXXXX ------------- XXXXX:::. 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XXXX XXXXX.::' :: XXXXX: PREPARED TO XXXXX .'' ''.. XXXX XXXXX::' :: XXXXX`: FIGHT XXXXX.' '.XXXX XXXXX' :: XXXXX ``. XXXXX XXXX XXXXX '' XXXXX PREPARED TO XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX DIE ...'XXXXX XXXX XXXXX :: XXXXX `...' XXXXX XXXX XXXXX `..' XXXXX .' XXXXX XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX /\ .' .' XXXX XXXXX /\ \ . . XXXX XXXXX / \ \...' `. .' XXXX XXXXX / NOT PREPARED TO BE DESERTED XXXX XXXXX / .'.' . .`.' XXXX XXXXX / ~ | : : : . XXXX XXXXX / |`. : : . .__________ XXXX XXXXX / ~ ~ ||.` ` : || \ / XXXX XXXXX / WRITE OR VISIT AN INCARCERATED VETERAN SOON ! XXXX XXXXX / ~ || . .'. / / XXXX XXXXX/ ~ ~ ~|| ||/ / XXXX XXXXX ~ ~ ~ || || / XXXX XXXXX || || / XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX \_________XXXXX________|| XgjpX XXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXX NAM VET Newsletter Page 86 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 "WELCOME HOME" Laura Palmer El Paso Times, Sunday March 25, 1990 Input by: Joyce Flory NAM VETs Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM (505) 523-2811 VETERAN HAD ONLY BRIDGE TO CALL HOME Jimmy Gelinas, a homeless Vietnam veteran,lived in New York's 59th Street Bridge for the last seven years of his life. He collected cans and sold used books on the street to get by, his own career as an East Side florist long since sabotaged by his drinking. At the end of each day, Gelinas headed back to the bridge, past a posh health club where yuppie tycoons spend thousands of dollars to get the kind of body that boot camp gave Gelinas for free. By slipping into the base of a cement tower that supports the bridge,Gelinas entered a world that was as dark as a dungeon and as dirty as shame. After climbing 104 steps, he reached the ugly space that he diligently tried to turn into a home. Rumpled brown blankets cover the thick piece of foam he made into a bed. Above it is a bumper sticker that reads "I am Proud to Be a Vietnam Veteran." Cans of corn and baked beans line his shelves, and his Pall Mall cigarettes are still fresh. By tapping into the nearby power lines,Jimmy managed to rig up an electric light, and for a time, a television. His black cowboy boots are where he left them, near his cassette player and Billy Joel tapes. All that is absent is Jimmy, who was 42 in January with the bridge traffic thundering overhead. His buddies miss him at Manhattan's Vietnam Veterans Outreach Center, where for a year Jimmy had attended a therapy group every Monday night, trying to reassemble his shattered life. "As he kept coming, he kept opening up, he was connecting," says Jose Arroyo, 39, an ex-Marine who says he loved Jimmy for his courage and perseverance. "Every time he came here, he said,' I'm tired of living on that bridge. I'm tired of being on welfare,'" Arroyo says. "This was like his home. He knew he was accepted here and loved here. He'd do anything to help out," recalls Bill Ulrich, 39, who served with Jimmy in the 3rd and 1st Marine divisions in Vietnam in 1969 and 1970. Their emotional reunion at the center came 18 years later. "To me,Jimmy was a tower of strength," Ulrich says. "It changed me a lot by seeing him battle with society and the elements out there. He could have said the hell with it and just given up completely, which he wouldn't do. He chose to fight." Ulrich says Gelinas was also fighting his alcoholism by attending Alcohol Anonymous meetings. Like Gelinas, Ulrich was homeless for two years, and he knows how savage life is on the streets. "It's a nightmare," he says. "It was like being out in the bush again. You feel like death is always knocking at your door." Gelinas also found support at St. James, an Episcopal church on Madison Avenue that is relentlessly committed to the homeless. It was there that his memorial service was conducted. Gelinas' spirit has fared much better than his body, to the dismay and outrage of his friends at the Vet Center and the NAM VET Newsletter Page 87 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 church. Gelinas is now a homeless corpse. Since his body was found in February, the decorated Vietnam vet has been in refrigerated storage in the basement of the city morgue while detectives investigate his death. When that's over, his coffin will be loaded on a barge for Potters Field, where the city buries those who found their hell on Earth. If its bureaucratic requirements can be satisfied, the Veterans Administration says it will eventually dig up Gelinas and bury him in a military cemetery. Then, maybe as an encore after taps, the military bugler could play "Nowhere to Run, Nowhere to Hide," which was the song Jimmy Gelinas loved best in Vietnam." NAM VET Newsletter Page 88 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= W h e n t h e C h a p l a i n w h i s p e r s . . . ================================================================= PTSD: ANGER (FEAR, MANIPULATIVE, WITHDRAWN, NUMB) by: Rev. Ed Brant NAM VETs Protestant Chaplain The Landing Zone - Fall Creek, OR (503) 747-9809 Since my last article, I've talked with a professional counselor, and after nine years of talking to and with Veterans of our war in Vietnam, his observation was that regardless of nationality, background, race, combat or support troops, or whatever the PTSD problem, EVERY VET HAS OR HAS HAD ANGER! Without exception! Now on to the continuation of our topic at hand: ANGER: FEAR Any of you remember taking your fear into a combat situation and turning that fear into anger, because that was the only way you could function and still come "home" alive? The ANGER then giving you the discipline that the Fear would destroy, causing more casualties, you included? Last input we mentioned that there is nothing wrong with anger. It is, if I may, an emotional function, that God gave us. Ultimately, then, it is what we do with that anger that determines if it is to be classified as a sin or not (refer to Jesus' driving the money changers out of the temple, Moses breaking the original stone of Ten Commandments that God Himself had carved.). So! It`s interesting that our society seems to accept fear more easily than anger! Here's an example: Something happens that affects a whole city. Maybe an earthquake with big aftershocks. Or a flood that wipes out a large number of houses, or a tornado that everyone sees coming. It strikes fear into everyone's heart. Now take something on a lesser level. How about a dangerous curve in the road. Do you feel fear? No! Why not? Because you are in control. But there are those that currently are classified as having PTSD in the area of fear! The civilian side of the coin is called panic disorder. This kind of anger will cause the individual to become withdrawn. S/he hides within themselves. They may lock the door and hide under the bed for fear of ... something. They become very uncomfortable in a group setting. Maybe they exhibit an increased and often unexplainable anxiety about a personal relationship. If a person is heavily dependent on the approval of others, then that person will become plagued by fear. Then, because they are plagued by fear, they become angry. They are angry then they are afraid! Then they depend heavily on others approval of themselves. And once again, it is more acceptable, in our society, to be afraid of God than to be angry with Him. WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT FEAR? The old King James version says to fear God in the Old Testament. A better translation might be to reverently trust God. The Old Testament was in the Hebrew language and didn't have a NAM VET Newsletter Page 89 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 word for an abstract thought like fear.) In the New Testament, (Greek) they did have words for abstract thoughts. It was the most complete and perfect language that the world has had to date. It means fear when it says `fear'. Luke 12:32 says, in part, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." Rom. 8:15 "For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; ..." Heb. 13:5,6 ".. for he has said (God) I will never leave you, or forsake you. So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do to me." 1st John 4:11-21. Please look up this passage and read the whole thing. It's short, but to the point. Here is an excerpt of the passage: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear out, because fear has punishment. Next lets look at a person who is manipulative in their anger. The first thing to notice is that these type persons hide their anger very well! They put a covering on their real self and use various means to destroy a group. They'll invariable circumvent their anger by spreading rumors, making negative comments in an effort to undermine leadership, friends, or a whole group of people. Their intent is overtly to give out as much pain as they've received! They'll never confront their anger, until God drives them to that point. And if you recall, one of the first things we must do if we desire healing is to confront that thing that is ruining us! They won't even talk to a person in a face-to-face situation! Here's the problem that invariable crops up in a person like that: There's no way to deal with our anger when we won't even admit that we have anger! It's all handled in an indirect manner, and that in itself makes it impossible to confront! Listen for a person who is always sarcastic. If you find this one, you can be sure that s/he is hiding their anger in their attitude toward life. Well, we have a problem here. You see, the Church has, over the years taught us that all anger is sin. Because of this, the Church has taught, indirectly, the people to hide the anger! But what does the Bible say? Remember? Eph. 4:26 "Be angry, and sin not" and check out Matt. 18:15. It's relevant! It's NOT A SIN TO BE ANGRY!!!! It IS A SIN IF WE DON'T HANDLE OUR ANGER CORRECTLY. Check Proverbs 15:1,and 21:14. You'll find a cure for anger. Next we consider the person who exhibits his/her anger in withdrawal. Very briefly, a person who withdraws in their own self, has no outlet. There is no resolution of their anger. Reread the section above, on the manipulative person. It all applies to the one who withdraws from society, from friends, from their anger. It makes for a VERY lonely life! It'll take a lot of time to help this person. Maybe as much as a year or two. Gain their trust through genuine friendship, real concern for their well- being. Gradually bring them to a recognition of their anger. God loves them, too. So should you. Feel their hurt, their frustration, and show genuine concern for them. Be patient, kind, loving. NAM VET Newsletter Page 90 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Last, consider the one who is angry, but numb! For many of us, this developed in Vietnam, in the midst of combat. (I know, because this is an area that I have a constant battle with.) When there was no time to grieve, we shoved the emotions aside. Or we put then into a packet to be recalled later, when there was time. But we returned to the States and found ourselves in the midst of upheaval and discontent. There wasn't time to bring that hidden packet and to begin to grieve for our lost brothers... So we kept it in dry dock, and hid that packet away, buried it deep. Well, one writer called the result an "anesthesia of feeling". It's not apathy, a lack of care or concern, it's just the thing we've tried for years to bring out into the open, and because our friends, our churches, our pastors, our families, couldn't understand (they weren't there) our feelings of resentment (our buddy died, WHY? The War was unjust, WHY? etc.) got buried deeper and deeper. Those who couldn't understand ignored us (Out of ignorance, in many cases) or they just plain didn't even know that we were there. (How many years did YOU work at a job, before someone finally discovered that YOU were a "VET"?) And so we grieve, and the fire gets hotter. We begin to get angry in public, hoping hope against hope that SOMEONE will notice us. But they didn't. Or they ignored us. And time passes by. And it keeps on passing by. It goes on and on. Eventually, a lot of us began to realize that "they didn't care, that we weren't going to be noticed, no matter what, and we took the righteous indignation that smoldered within us, and we began the tedious process of putting a thick overcoat of anesthesia. We became some of the most calloused people in the United States. You see, when we put our feeling so far down that for all practical purposes feeling cease to exist, then we no longer have to suffer. We DO CARE, but we took the shot, we drowned ourselves in alcohol, and put now we don't have to carry the hurt that we buried so carefully. We no longer care, at least not too much, and we get to the point where we can ...survive. In the Church, or outside the Church. We become "uninvolved" in anything. We become quiet. We choose to not let our anger be seen, because we care about others. And in the process, we build walls, big thick walls, between what may have been good friends. Walls between us and almost anything that would cause us to care. We no longer communicate, but go into isolation. We hide in the woods, in the underpass, in the missions, on the street, in our own closet, whatever it may be. And in the process, we begin the very real process of self destruction. Why? Because our anger has gone unnoticed, this reaction to our anger has pushed us outside the area of recognition where our healing could begin. A person who is ignored for a long period of time, or who has been hurt again and again over a long period of time, may decide finally to quit caring. After all, when we don't care, we can't be hurt - right? But only one thing is wrong with this: The feeling of emotion doesn't go away! We hide them in various levels of inactivity. We become extremely cautious. We remove ourselves from life in general. Hey man! We're cool! But herein lies a problem. You see, we DO CARE! But it's been so long since we've allowed that care to be seen that we've become NUMB! The people around us think that we don't care. That we don't possess any ability to function in our society. My brother, my sister, my fellow Vet, I cry with you. I have come back. I've come home. Because of one who loves me for what I am. For who I am. His name is Jesus Christ. And because of that understanding, because He suffered everything and more than I have (He hung on the Cross, and cried out in absolute anguish, "My NAM VET Newsletter Page 91 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 God! My God! Why have you left me?") I can trust him. Now I can come out of hiding, and I can confront my anger and I can begin to deal with it. I can finally grieve for my fallen companions. Now that I can face the fact that I went into hiding, that I hid my emotions, that I ceased, at least outwardly, to care, I can begin to live again. How refreshing! How wonderful! And it began with God. He uses "tools". The tool may be a friend, a stranger, a counselor, a pastor, a fellow Vet. If you want healing, I'd recommend Point Man Ministries. The fellows who run the various outposts are all vets, like you. Many of us are combat Vets. We've been there! We understand. And I promise that we'll accept you for who you are. Hey! You want healing, to finally put this suffering aside, go to a meeting, and let it out. Talk. That's the first step. Want a newspaper to tell you where to find a POINT MAN meeting? Leave me a message on the Nam Vet Echo, with your name and address. I'll see that you get on the mailing list. My fellow Vet, We all need healing in various places, and areas of life. Start to seek healing now! For your health, and the health of your loved ones, for the health of your relationships. We care. Till next time, I remain, USMC Ret. Rev. Ed. 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IIXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXpX The Vietnam Veteran XII IIXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX has relatives in the III IIIXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX Old and New Testaments III IIIXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX who also experienced loss II IIXXXXXXXXX XXX and grief, guilt and shame, II IIXXXXXXXXX XX rejection and betrayal, I IXXXXXXXXX alienation and estrangement, I IXXXX XX isolation and withdrawal. II IIXXXX II IIX Adam and Eve tried to hide from God; II II Moses, born Hebrew and raised Egyptian IIII IIII searched long and hard for his real self; II II Job, losing his children and all he owned, II II became sorely diseased; IIII III Biblical Joseph was rejected by his brothers, II II lied about and imprisoned; I Peter denied Jesus. II I "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" Matthew 28:20 NAM VET Newsletter Page 93 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= H e r e c o m e s M u r p h y ================================================================= An Incomplete List of Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations By: Lt. Col Jack Finch, USA (Ret.) Published in the VVA Chapter 111 Springfield, MA Newsletter Input by: G. Joseph Peck NAM VETs Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 1. Military intelligence can be contridiction in terms. 2. Recoilless rifles - aren't 3. A sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow down. 4. The enemy diversion you are ignoring is the main attack. 5. If the enemy is within range, then so are you. 6. Friendly fire - isn't. 7. If it is stupid and works, then it ain't stupid. 8. When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy 9. If you're short of everything, except the enemy, then you are in the combat zone. 10. Try to look unimportant. They may be low on ammo. 11. The easy way is always mined. 12. Tracers work both ways. 13. Sh*t happens. 14. Incoming fire has the right of way. 15. Teamwork is essential. It gives them other people to shoot at 16. Never draw fire - it irritates everyone around you. 17. No combat ready unit has ever passed an inspection. 18. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat. 19. Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out 20. Both sides are convinced they're about to lose, they're both right. 21. Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of dangerous amateurs. 22. Fortify your front and you'll get your rear shot up. 23. When in doubt, empty your magazine. 24. In war, important things are very simple and all simple things are hard. 25. Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire. 26. Communications will fail as soon as you need fire support desperately. 27. Weather ain't neutral. 28. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you. 29. Remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder. 30. If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed towards you 31. All five second grenade fuses are three seconds 32. The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly. 33. If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush. 34. No OPLAN survives first contact intact. 35. If it flies, it dies. 36. When you are forward of your position, the artillery will always be short. NAM VET Newsletter Page 94 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 37. Suppressive fire - won't. 38. You are not Superman. 39. Cavalry doesn't always come to the rescue. 40. B-52's are the ultimate in close air support. 41. Sniper's motto: Reach out and touch someone. 42. Peace is our profession - mass murder's just a hobby 43. Killing for peace is like whoring for virginity 44. There's always a way 45. Murphy was a grunt 46. It's not the one with your name on it - it's the round addressed "to whom it may concern" ya gotta think about 47. Remember napalm is an area weapon 48. Mines are equal opportunity weapons. 50. There is no such thing as the perfect plan. The original authors are unknown, probably military instructors like myself, who have generated these lists for their students' amusement. NAM VET Newsletter Page 95 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= H e a r t s & M i n d s ================================================================= "TAPS" --from VETS' FORUM "Service To The Alaskan Veteran" State of Alaska - Division of Veterans' Affairs Jan/Feb 1990 Issue Input by: G. Joseph Peck NAM VETs Managing Editor VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA (413) 443-6313 Taps was composed in July of 1862 by Gen. David Butterfield. He wanted a few bars that could be played exclusively for his brigade. Since the general could neither read nor write music, he sent for the brigade bugler, Oliver W. Norton and whistled the tune for him. A few months later, after a fierce battle, a funeral took place for one of the cannoneers. The enemy was too close to fire the customary three volleys so the general asked the battery bugler to step forward and sound "Taps". Ever since, it has been the soldier's final farewell and tribute. There are several verses and versions. One of the most common is: Day is done, Gone the sun From the lake, from the hills, from the sky. All is well, Safely rest, God is nigh. From MSgt. Fred W. Campbell, Jr., U.S. Army Fort Benjamin Harrison, Indiana NAM VET Newsletter Page 96 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Life Goes On By: Todd Looney NAM VETs Chief - Emeritus Vietnam Veterans Valhalla - San Jose, CA (408) 737-2402 (Mail Only) I heard in some old country western song a long time ago a phrase that has stuck with me and seems to be appropriate during this month of Tet. Metaphorically it went something like, "Memories are like a rearview mirror, the farther you travel the smaller the image gets...". I probably bastardized the lyric horribly but the point I'm trying to make is that things happened a long time ago to all of us and even though the memories diminish with time, they are still there ... often with a haunting quality we'd rather not experience. Although I didn't serve in Vietnam during the infamous Tet invasion of 1968, I, like so many Vietnam veterans, have a "Tet" memory of my own to live with. Many of you know I was a POW for some time, but my Tet isn't about that. My Tet symbolized the frustrations we all felt in the Republic of Vietnam; trying to do our best with what little we had, but knowing deep down that we were there to do a job, and do it we must, and then go on with our lives the best we could. I had been in-country for about 6 months, maybe a little more, and was a medic for a long-range recon team of six guys, myself included. I had gotten close to all the members of my elite little team - a mistake in itself, but something that happened nonetheless. Our gunner (I'll call him Brandy for now) was a big Texan hailing from a small town called Wink or something like that. Anyway, Brandy carried an M-79 grenade launcher and was damned good with it. We were on a night patrol tallying movement on a redball (hard-packed clay trail through the jungle) when we ran into a little trouble. Normally during treks like that Brandy loaded buck shot into his weapon, but we had split into three teams of two men and spread out - Brandy and I were teamed together that night. Before we left he slipped the buck out and reloaded his M-79 with tear gas. I carried a couple grenades with me also so that in the event 'feces' hit the fan (grin) I could chuck them behind us to help us make our getaway. Brandy's job was to fire the gas at our pursuers and give us time to di-di out of there (di-di is Vietnamese for "get the heck out of Dodge". [You may be wondering why a medic would be carrying grenades, well, I found very early on in my first of four tours that scalpels make rotten weapons, and a syringe won't save your life when you're being jumped on. So, like all wizened combat vets, I carried an automatic rifle (a Colt Commando Assault Rifle CAR-15 given to me by a grateful marine under some bridge around Marble Mountain near Da Nang), a 45 automatic pistol, and yes, grenades whenever I could spare the room for them in my medical bag]. Anyway, as you probably might have guessed, it *did* hit the fan and we were forced to book out of there and regroup with the rest of our team at a predesignated spot near the mouth of a small stream running along the trail we had been watching. Brandy and I had to run full out about a thousand yards or so to our rendezvous position, the last leg through a rice paddy. Just as we got near the opposite bank of the muddy paddy, Brandy took a hit in the back that carried all the way through his body, exiting from his NAM VET Newsletter Page 97 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 stomach. Luckily, the rest of our team heard the gun fire and started covering our escape from a knoll ahead of us. I dragged Brandy out of the water and shoved him behind a tree and started packing his belly and back with cotton dressing, finally with mud to staunch the bleeding (I figured that if I could just save his life they could cure the infection from the putrid mud back at Da Nang). Although the ensuing fire fight only lasted for a few minutes, it seemed like hours as I worked to save Brandy's life, him blabbing incoherently to me about home and his family the whole time. I think he told me his whole life story during those last five or six minutes. Just before he died in my arms, he looked up at me and smiled, then reached up and touched my neck with his finger tips. I think it was his way of saying, "Thanks bro, I love you ... goodbye". Although this happened a million years ago, I'll always carry with me the image of his face, the warmth of his touch, and the rush of emotion flooding through my body as he gasped his last breath and closed his eyes. What I'm leading to is that although the event of Brandy's death affected me with unbridled intensity, I was eventually forced to deal with it, put it behind me, and go on with my life. This process took ten long years, and only came about after I spent six months in a mental rehabilitation facility at our local Veterans Administration facility in Menlo Park, California. We all have to look our "Tet's" right in the face and deal with them sooner or later. If we don't, we end up derelict in our responsibilities to not only ourselves, but to our families, friends, and society in general. One of the best methods for me has been to utilize the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) as a support network. When I started the IVVEC several years ago, it was a selfish effort intended to link me up with other Vietnam veterans who could understand what I went through and help me to get through the rough times in my life back then. What it turned out to be, of course, was a support network for thousands of veterans around the world who just need to be heard now and then; they simply need to get things off their chests and be understood. Without help from many kind and generous people, Joe Peck to name one, this "stepping stone" to recovery would not exist. The NAM VET is our way of extending our sphere of influence even further than the realm of the computers and telephone lines it is generated upon (I found a printed copy on a San Jose Transit bus one afternoon last year!). No one can take responsibility for your recovery, that is an element of growth you will have to take control of yourself. But you are not alone. Take advantage of the IVVEC and the NAM VET and *use* them to your advantage! If you have input, we are all more than pleased to provide feedback if that is what you want. You can easily and inexpensively do this by dialing up on of the local IVVEC VetNet nodes in your local area (a loooooong list of nodes is available at the end of this issue of NAM VET), or compose an article for one of the enlightening sections of the NAM VET and ask your local sysop to e-mail it to one of the responsible editors listed on the title page. Either way, *you* must take some responsibility for your own recovery, and these are but two of the many healthy outlets at your disposal. We want to hear from you. Until next month, think happy thoughts and be happy. You have friends who care about you. NAM VET Newsletter Page 98 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Todd Looney NAM VET Newsletter Page 99 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= N o t i c e s o f I n t e r e s t ================================================================= Amputee Support Group - Phone or Pen-Pal Input by: Bill Baughn DD Connection 1, Arlington TX (817/640-7880) (Opus 1:130/10) The North Texas Amputee Support Group was founded in January 1988 to provide peer support to new amputees in our area. We publish a monthly newsletter which attempts to inform and educate amputees and persons affected by limb deficiencies, such as Thalidomide survivors. We are the only group in the U.S. which is completely independent of the medical industry and are therefore able to act as honest advocates for the population we represent. Our original intent was to help amputees locally, but we are receiving requests for information from as far away as England. We are slowly building a data base of limb deficient persons who are willing to contact others in need of their advice. This is especially important with children and those with multiple limb loss who have no local role models. We feel sure that many of our members can benefit from contact with Vietnam Veterans who have coped with limb loss and, perhaps some of the information and contacts we can offer will help the veteran as well. We will be happy to send our newsletter to anyone who requests it. All The Best, Bill Baughn North Texas Amputee Support Group 5427 Redfield Dallas, Tx 75235 (214) 631-7438 *** Those who have been down the road can best point the way. *** NAM VET Newsletter Page 100 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 USS Liberty Reunion By: Joe Meadors SeaBat BBS Home Of USS Liberty Veterans Association (1:160/230) The USS Liberty Veterans Association has just started making preparations for a reunion in Washington, DC in June, 1991. We're ever on the watch for newly-found survivors, former crewmen, family and "other participants" (i.e., pilots sent to our rescue, crewmen of USS Massey, USS Davis or USS America, etc.) who would either like to attend or just contact us to share their experiences. If you know of any, please have them contact us at: USS Liberty Veterans Association P.O. Box 789 Woodinville, Washington 98072 Thanks, Joe Meadors, Chairman NAM VET Newsletter Page 101 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 THE CARIBOU PROJECT Jan Gerstner 1049 Milwaukee St Delafield, WI 53018-1626 (414) 646-8965 Input by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 I am doing an historical project on the Army CV-2 / USAF C-7 Caribou. I need to find people from any service who came into contact with the aircraft during the period 1959 - 1980, in Vietnam and elsewhere. Vietnam vets from the following areas are particularly needed: The siege of Dak To; The siege of Dak Seang; The siege of Khe San; Ben Het; Army operations against NVA/VC units prior to 1967; Special Forces, especially 5th Special Forces; Rangers; LRRPS who were dropped from and recovered by Caribous; Personnel from Fire Base Snuffy; Personnel from Fire Base David (O Rang, Cambodia); Air America personnel who operated Caribous; VNAF Caribou personnel; Thailand IRAN personnel; Other Army ground units who were supported by Army and USAF Caribou units; U.S. Air Force personnel who operated/supported Caribou operations after March, 1972; Army ground units who were evacuated by Caribous after March, 1972; Aerial Port personnel; ALCC and ALCE personnel; Army Caribou Aviation Company, and USAF Squadron Commanders; ANYONE who can evaluate the effectiveness of Caribou operations and support. I was an Air Force Caribou pilot 1970-71. Today I am a professional aviator and freelance writer, specializing in aviation topics. This history of the Caribous is using the official records as a base, but will tell the story in the words of the people who were there. I need narrative histories. To date, I have 400 Caribou pilots from the Army and Air Force on my roster, and the support of the USAF Office of History, the Air Force Archives and the Army Otter-Caribou Association. Information has also been contributed by the de Havilland Corporation and the Rand Corporation. ANYONE who had contact with a Caribou is urged to contact me. Many times even the simplest addition has proved to be one of the more valuable. If you know someone else who may have operated, supported, depended upon, loved or hated a Caribou, please have them contact me. I can be reached through EXEC-PC or at the following NAM VET Newsletter Page 102 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 address: THE CARIBOU PROJECT Jan Gerstner 1049 Milwaukee Street Delafield, WI 53018-1626 (414) 646-8965 <1200 N81N> NAM VET Newsletter Page 103 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Cerebral Malaria and Relation to PTSD by: Rick Stolz NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin (414) 567-0437 Anyone having information on Cerebral malaria, and studies done in Iowa last few years as to its relation to PTSD, please call Chuck Howard, 708-479-1426. Either clinic, doctor, results, new studies, etc. would be appreciated. Original study mentioned in a First Cav Newspaper about 3 years ago. NAM VET Newsletter Page 104 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Help for Homeless Vets" By: Jim Vaughan Greenfield, Massachusetts Chapter 232 of VVA in Greenfield, Massachusetts is on a campaign to provide transitional housing for single Vets and families of Vets to help them acquire permanent housing. Expertise, volunteers and financial support is welcome! Anyone wanting to get involved on any level with this project can and should contact Richard C. Rivers, President Chapter 232 at (413) 648-9744. Thanks! Jim V. NAM VET Newsletter Page 105 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Help for Children of Veterans By: Robert Knee -=[*] DE OPRESSO LIBER [*]=- 5th S.F. GRP. (1:105/204) The Spina Bifida Assoc. of America (SBAA) has been awarded a $359,255 grant by the Agent Orange Class Assistance Project for a program designed to enable the children of Vietnam veterans with severe disabilities, and the families of those children, to pursue more fully integrated, productive and independent lives. The SBAA program will provide direct assistance to an anticipated 700-900 children and/or their families over the grant period (10/19/89 to 10/19/90), in the form of outreach, assessments, case-management, independent living skills training, training in countenance management and provision of rehabilitative and adaptive equipment. The SBAA will work in cooperation with veterans organizations such as the Vietnam Veterans of America and the Paralyzed Veterans of America and various government agencies in delivering services under this project. Any Vietnam veteran who served in or near country between 1961 and 1972 and has a child with a severe disability is eligible for this program. The veteran does not have to be living with the child, and adopted children also qualify. Please call SBAA at their toll- free number for more information: 1-800-872-8058. NAM VET Newsletter Page 106 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 "MINI" WALL SCHEDULE FOR JUNE 1990 By: Jim Gave Director, Lake County VIETNOW P. O. Box 514 Zion, Illinois Lake County VIETNOW, in Lake County Illinois (just north of Chicago) will be displaying our half scale "Mini" traveling wall at the Naval Air Station, Glenview Illinois Air Exposition on the 23rd and 24th of June 1990. From the 25th through the 30th of June the wall will be at Kaskaskia College in southern Illinois for the week long Veterans Awareness Week Celebration. For further information on Lake County VIETNOW activities and the "Mini" wall schedule, contact: LAKE COUNTY VIETNOW P.O.BOX 514 ZION,ILLINOIS 60099 or contact me personally at: (708) 657-2345 (work) (708) 249-1467 (home) NAM VET Newsletter Page 107 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 It's finally here - a patch which acknowledges the other side of the Vietnam Veteran: His wife! Hardly needing any explanation, it is multicolor with Red, White, Blue, Green and Gold for the Map of Vietnam. While the text drawing below doesn't really do it justice, I think if you run it out on your printer, you'll sorta get the idea of how special this unique patch is. They are available for $5 each from VETLink #1 - Dept. 65 P O Box 2056 Pittsfield, MASSACHUSETTS 01202 (Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery) @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@ @@@@@@@@ @@@@ @@@ @@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@@ @@@ V I E T N A M V E T S W I F E @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ :@@@@@@@@@@@: :@@@@@@@@@@@: @@@ @@@ @.............@ @.............@ @@@ @@@ @...............@ @...............@ @@@ @@@ @.................@ @.................@ @@@ @@@ (...................@@...................) @@@ @@@ @............. ..............@ @@@ @@@ @.............. MAP OF USA ..............@ @@@ @@@ @................. .................@ @@@ @@@ @................. WITH .................@ @@@ @@@ @.............. ...............@ @@@ @@@ @............... MAP OF ...............@ @@@ @@@ (........ .......) @@@ @@@ @...... VIET NAM SUPERIMPOSED ......@ @@@ @@@ @........ .........@ @@@ @@@ @.......... OVER IT ............@ @@@ @@@ I @ ............................ @ N @@@ @@@ @............................@ @@@ @@@ @..........................@ A @@@ @@@ S @........................@ @@@ @@@ @....................@ M @@@ @@@ T @..................@ @@@ @@@ @................@ @@@ @@@ A @............@ Y @@@ @@@ @..........@ @@@ @@@ N @......@ M @@@ @@@ @..@ @@@ @@@ D @@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ B Y @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ @@ (c) 1988 VVA Chapter #65 Pittsfield, MA NAM VET Newsletter Page 108 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= C o n c e n t r a t e d S e r v i c e ================================================================= VETERAN SERVICE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT VETLink #1 VETLink #1 and its sponsor, Berkshire Veterans Center, Inc., have been in the process of creating an on-line database/information referral source for our nations veterans and their dependents. We've sent a letter to the Director/Commissioner of all 50 states and a few territories requesting any veteran-related information they'd wish to share. To date, we've received replies from the following states/territories: ALABAMA (Frank D. Wilkes, Director) ALASKA (Charles T. Borg, Director) CALIFORNIA (Jesse G. Ugalde, Director) CONNECTICUT (Joseph C. Barber, Deputy Commissioner) FLORIDA (S. F. Stover, Director) GEORGIA (Pete Wheeler, Commissioner) ILLINOIS (John W. Johnston, Director) INDIANA (S. Jeanne Loveless, Program Coordinator) IOWA (Dale Renaud, Director) LOUISIANA (Printice A. Darnell, Executive Director) MINNESOTA (Terrence A. Logan, Director, Agency Relations) MISSOURI (William V. Haynes, Director) NEW HAMPSHIRE (Conrad V. Moran, Director) NEW JERSEY (William G. Kowalski, Director) NEW YORK (Tom Lewis, Director) NORTH CAROLINA (Charles F. Smith, Assistant Director) OHIO (Col. John P. Seimer , Director of Veteran's Affairs) PENNSYLVANIA (Joseph R. Clelan, Director) RHODE ISLAND (Michael F. Gallagher, Casework Supervisor) SOUTH CAROLINA (Bill J. Sams Director) TEXAS (Texas Veterans' Commission/ Garry Mauro - Land Board) VERMONT (Ms. Lyn Boisjoli, Director - State Veterans Affairs) VIRGIN ISLANDS (Verne I. Richards) WEST VIRGINIA (G. L. Harper, Veterans Affairs Chief) WISCONSIN (John J. Maurer, Secretary of Veterans' Affairs) We presently have on-file (but not on-line) state veteran information from Massachusetts, in addition to copies of Title 38, USC and many veteran organization Service Officer manuals and pamphlets. If you live in any of the states/territories listed below -OR- know the CURRENT Director/Commissioner's Address, PLEASE let us know so that we can get a letter off to 'em and collect the information a veteran may need in the near future: RETURNED - We need CURRENT Names & Addresses for: ARIZONA: Arizona Veterans Service Commission - Last known to be in Phoenix, AZ 85013 NEVADA: Commission for Veterans' Affairs - Last known to be in Reno, NV 89502 NORTH DAKOTA: Department of Veterans' Affairs Last known to be in Fargo, ND 58107 MISSISSIPPI: Veterans' Affairs Commission - Last known to be in Jackson, MS 39205 UTAH: Administrator of Veterans' Affairs NAM VET Newsletter Page 109 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Last known to be in Salt Lake City, UT 84115 We are STILL trying to find names and addresses for: PANAMA: No Director/Commissioner address found WYOMING: No Director/Commissioner address found If you've got veteran-related information that you feel would be helpful to another veteran if s/he found it on-line, please send it to: G. Joseph Peck, President BERKSHIRE VETERANS' CENTER, INC. Post Office Box 2056 Pittsfield, MA 01202 NAM VET Newsletter Page 110 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 NamVet/IVVEC Concentrated Service Report To keep you abreast of HOW NamVet/IVVEC Concentrated Service is doing, we'll try to run a report every month of the status of efforts currently underway and, if appropriate, apprise you of positive or negative results. -- Letter dated 1/1/90 to Massachusetts' DAV Commander, with text- file copy in IVVEC: To date: NO response - VERBAL or WRITTEN (We'll mail another copy during April) -- Copy of above letter dated 1/1/90 to DAV National Commander, with text-file copy in IVVEC: To date: NO response - VERBAL or WRITTEN (We'll mail another copy during April) -- Letter dated 1/13/90 to U.S. Congressman Silvio O. Conte, with text-file copy in IVVEC was received 3/26/90. It is included in this issue of NamVet. (Progress again!!!!) -- Letter(s) dated 1/21/90 to Commissioners and Directors of Veterans Affairs in 50 states and 2 Territories, with text- file copy in IVVEC: To date: 24 positive and helpful responses w/literature; 7 letters returned ADDRESSEE NOT HERE UNABLE TO FORWARD We are now beginning to receive newsletters produced by the Veterans Departments of a few states! I will keep you posted here and in the VIETNAM_VETS echo as to continuing developments on any of the above issues. Yours, in Service to America ... and my fellow man In kindness, honesty, and good faith G. Joseph Peck Moderator, VIETNAM_VETERANS INTERNATIONAL ECHO Managing Editor, NAMVET SysOp - VETLINK #1 President, BERKSHIRE VETERANS' CENTER, INC. NAM VET Newsletter Page 111 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Progress!!! - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - SILVIO O. CONTE WASHINGTON ADDRESS First District, Massachusetts 2300 Rayburn Office Building Washington, DC 20515 COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS Phone: 202-225-5335 Ranking Republican Member CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WASHINGTON, DC 20515 SUBCOMMITTEES Labor - Health and Human DISTRICT OFFICES Services - Education Federal Building Transportation 78 Center Street Arterial Pittsfield, MA 01201 LEGISLATIVE Phone: 413-442-0946 Ex Officio Member Of All Subcommittees 187 High Street Holyoke, MA 01040 COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS Phone: 413-532-7010 Subcommittee on Procurement, Innovation, and Minority Enterprises Development MIGRATORY BIRD CONSERVATION COMMISSION March 19, 1990 BOARD OF REGENTS SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION Mr. G. Joseph Peck XXX XXXX Street Pittsfield, Massachusetts 01201 Dear Mr. Peck: I am writing to advise you that I have received and reviewed the documentation you forwarded to me relative to your request for the Postmaster General's assistance with the problem you have experienced with the United States Postal Service. Please be advised, Mr. Peck, that I have contacted the Postmaster General on your behalf to support and show interest in your claim. I have requested that an expeditious review be afforded in addition to a written response of the finding. As alwayus, I will not delay in contacting you again when I am in receipt of additional information. With my continued best wishes and warm regards, I am Cordially yours, /s/ Silvio O. Conte Member of Congress SOC:cl NAM VET Newsletter Page 112 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 ================================================================= I V V E C & N a m V e t - W H E R E ? ================================================================= Parameters of VIETNAM_VETS echoconference... This message will be placed in the VIETNAM_VETS echomail area at regular intervals. This message constitutes the parameters regarding the use, access and distribution of the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference. LEGALITIES: VIETNAM_VETS is an International "veteran-support" EchoConference that is privately owned and operated as both a support mechanism and outreach effort by its originator, Todd Looney and G. Joseph Peck, President, Berkshire Veterans' Center, Inc. VIETNAM_VETS is moderated by G. Joseph Peck. The ECHOMAIL COORDINATOR of VIETNAM_VETS is presently G. Joseph Peck - FidoNet 1:321/203; AlterNet 7:46/203 (1-413-443-6313). VIETNAM_VETS is carried as a courtesy and service to America's veterans on the FidoNet echomail "backbone" and through parts of AlterNet and other networks. Where policies of FidoNet or other networks and those of VIETNAM_VETS conflict, every effort will be made to reach an amicable solution to any posed problem. The right is herein reserved by the Moderator/EchoMail Coordinator, G. Joseph Peck, to remove VIETNAM_VETS from a network should the policies of that network prove to be obstructive rather than conducive to the mission of this EchoConference. OVERVIEW: For some Vietnam Veterans, every day is a bitter struggle to survive as they try to find some way to either escape the horrible memories of that war or to come to terms with themselves so they and their families can begin a normal life. For other veterans of the Vietnam era there is often a fervent desire for comradery with members of the military who also served during that troubled time in our nations history. Until May of 1986 and the creation of the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) at the Vietnam Veterans' Valhalla, finding a way to satisfy the needs of these - the toughest, most persistent and determined veterans in ALL of US history - as well as give non-veterans and others a chance to interact and learn firsthand from the Vietnam veterans about the war and its complexities, was difficult at best. IVVEC has changed all that! DESCRIPTION: VIETNAM_VETS is an "open forum" type conversational conference for the discussion of topics related to service in the Southeast Asian and other theaters, crisis support and possible intervention, state and federal benefit entitlements, employment rights and guarantees, discharge upgrading, and other veteran service-oriented topics. PURPOSE: The purpose of the International VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference (IVVEC) is to be the support vehicle through which the veteran, particularly the Vietnam veteran, and his or her family will have an opportunity to communicate about his or her war experiences, often for the first time since returning from Vietnam. Each of us - as veterans, significant and/or concerned NAM VET Newsletter Page 113 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 others - participate in the IVVEC to help each other with support, suggestions, ideas and comments. Together, as one of America's proudest groups, we can share resources and experiences which will strengthen and build our fellow veterans and may help provide a guide through the labyrinth of state and federal services many of us have honorably earned and have every right to expect. HANDLES: The use of "handles" in VIETNAM_VETS is allowed, only if the handle that you use is the name you normally use on the board on which you access the conference. MESSAGE CONTENT(S): Personal attacks on individuals whose sometimes-strong opinions differ from the IVVEC "norm" are discouraged. The object is to learn from and support others, not argue with them or "go for their throat"! Aside from the parameter concerning attacks upon other users, it is hereby stipulated that messages in the conference will use tasteful language. Flames, comments, suggestions and such should be addressed to the conference moderator/coordinator via netmail at 1:321/203 and NOT posted in the EchoConference. Generally, messages should relate to the discussion of topics related to service in the Southeast Asian and other theaters, crisis support and possible intervention, state and federal benefit entitlements, employment rights and guarantees, discharge upgrading, as related to prior military service. ADVERTISING: Advertising of for-profit organizations is not allowed. Acceptable advertising is that which announces a veteran-oriented BBS, supports a veteran-related enterprise of a veteran-member of the EchoConference, or of the efforts of a nationally recognized veterans' group or organization. DISTRIBUTION: The conference is commonly known as the International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) and is distributed throughout America, Canada and parts of Australia as "VIETNAM_VETS". Distribution in America is generally via the FidoNet backbone which is part of the distribution topology currently in effect. Other nets distributing the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference are asked to follow proper procedures for zonegating as established by the FIDONET International Coordinator. All messages in the echo MUST have an ORIGIN: line which should contain the word ORIGIN: followed by the originating systems name, zone, net, node and point number if applicable. Distributing messages between systems of various networks without authorized zonegating and/or changing of distribution topology beyond the original transfer is in direct violation of the distribution topology of this conference. Fido-AlterNet Nodelist as of 03/01/90, Sorted by Area Code Also received on RelayNet; MetroLink; QuickLink Max Net/Node Name, City Telephone No Baud ========= ================================= ============== == 7:520/563 3 EEE's BBS, Clifton NJ Ed Edell 1-201-340-3531 96 107/563 EEE's BBS Clifton NJ Ed Edell 1-201-340-3531 96 141/488 Alice's Restaurant Branford CT 1-203-488-1115 24 141/250 Wilton Woods Wilton, CT 1-203-762-8481 96 NAM VET Newsletter Page 114 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 124/201 Hardwired Dallas, TX 1-204-931-2987 24 344/117 LSO QuickBBS, Everett WA 1-206-334-3088 96 344/9 The Precedent, Everett WA 1-206-355-1295 ? 138/35 US HDS Human Service Seattle, WA 1-206-442-8127 24 343/26 AFMINS BBS 1-206-488-4309 96 343/111 Lessor Puget TB Edmonds, WA 1-206-742-8067 24 138/52 Burrell's Ballpark Tacoma, WA 1-206-752-4672 24 138/4 PTC Net Mount Vernon, WA 1-206-757-5248 24 138/49 The Cohort Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-2646 96 138/101 Story Board Puyallup, WA 1-206-848-5317 96 138/3 Reg17 ADVISOR EMERITUS Puyallup WA 1-206-848-9232 24 200/200 CSULB Long Beach, CA 1-213-494-8737 12 200/100 The Board Room Belmont Shores CA 1-213-498-6425 24 124/117 NCC-1701 Node 1 Dallas, TX 1-214-240-8821 24 124/106 CHAI Way II Dallas, TX 1-214-250-3323 96 136/200 The Chai Way II Austin, TX 1-214-358-3738 24 124/4210 Hardwired Dallas TX 1-214-437-4075 96 124/110 Flying Dutchman Dallas, TX 1-214-642-3436 96 124/14 Chrysalis Dallas, TX 1-214-985-9054 24 157/501 The PC-Key BBS Girard OH 1-216-545-9205 24 157/1 Auer Register Cleveland, OH 1-216-883-0578 24 227/1 Michiana TechLine Mishawaka, IN 1-219-258-0286 96 227/150 The SX Project Whiting IN 1-219-659-2711 24 13/33 Avi-Technic Lutherville, MD 1-301-252-0717 96 109/648 Falcon's Rock College Park, MD 1-301-345-7459 24 261/1004 The PainFrame 1-301-488-7461 ? 13/30 The Futurists BBS Perry Hall, MD 1-301-529-0716 96 109/717 Tin Badge BBS Silver Spring, MD 1-301-589-2016 12 109/722 Ronnie's Roadies, Camp Springs MD 1-301-736-0135 12 261/628 Liberty Hall Reisterstown, MD 1-301-833-8933 24 261/1044 Firestation BBS, Baltimore, MD 1-301-866-8613 24 261/1007 FINAL FRONTIER 1-301-947-4404 ? 104/51 P2 B2 South Denver, CO 1-303-329-3337 24 104/28 Pinecliff BBS Boulder, CO 1-303-444-7073 24 128/16 Firenet Leader Colorado Springs CO 1-303-591-9600 24 104/739 The Phoenix Parker, CO 1-303-841-9570 24 135/35 The Sober Way Out BBS Miami, FL 1-305-445-6917 24 135/27 Bitsy's Place Miami Beach FL 1-305-865-0495 96 232/4 Runways End OPUS Peoria, IL 1-309-691-5416 96 115/20 North Shore BBS Evanston, IL 1-312-491-2611 24 115/529 Elk Grove Repeater Elk Grv Vlg IL 1-312-529-1586 24 115/761 ICS/TRIX 1 OPUS Chicago, IL 1-312-761-7887 24 11/202 SouthSide BBS Indianapolis, IN 1-317-882-9330 12 380/5 Duffy's Tavern Recovery Board 1-318-436-2992 96 285/622 Friend's BBS Omaha, NE Joan Renne 1-402-896-2669 24 370/5 Athens Forum Athens, GA 1-404-546-7857 96 370/11 Classic City Vet's Conf, Athens, GA1-404-548-0130 ? 370/10 Classic Quick Echo, Athens, GA 1-404-548-0726 24 128/13 COSUG-Colorado's User Clrdo Spg CO 1-719-633-4563 24 385/6 Bink's Barn Lawton, OK 1-405-357-2473 24 385/4 Info-Net Lawton, OK 1-405-357-6181 24 147/14 Dark Star TBBS Oklahoma City, OK 1-405-691-0863 96 363/10 Midas Touch Orlando, FL 1-407-648-1133 24 363/9 MaMaB--Mark's Bedroom, Orlanda, FL 1-407-894-0807 96 157/506 Beacon Hill OPUS Transfer, PA 1-412-962-9514 24 321/109 PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA 1-413-256-1037 96 321/203 VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA 1-413-443-6313 24 321/210 Berkshire_Estates Pittsfield, MA 1-413-499-1327 96 154/200 PC-Express Greenfield, WI 1-414-327-5300 24 NAM VET Newsletter Page 115 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 139/640 Fox Valley Tech Appleton, WI 1-414-735-2513 24 125/78 Living Sober BBS San Mateo, CA 1-415-342-2859 24 143/20 SeaHunt BBS, Burlington, CA 1-415-343-5904 96 143/86 Cat's Tail BBS STOP San Mateo CA 1-415-349-8245 24 161/208 G.A.D.M. Multi-User Hayward, CA 1-415-581-3019 ? 125/31 Echo Coord San Francisco CA 1-415-621-5206 96 161/56 Nat'l Family Forum Freemont, CA 1-415-651-4147 24 161/1 Nerd's Nook Concord CA 1-415-672-2504 96 161/509 Enterprize Pinole, CA 1-415-758-1650 24 161/7 Mover Mouse BBS Fremont, CA 1-415-883-1644 24 11/700 FCAU IBM Net Toronto, ON 1-416-427-0682 96 148/120 Genetic Research Vat Toronto ON 1-416-480-0551 24 14/703 Telen-Quest BBS 1-417-882-5108 ? 19/43 McScott's BBS, Blytheville AR 1-502-532-6212 96 105/61 Shotgun OPUS Portland, OR 1-503-760-4521 24 105/16 Net 105 EchoMail Hub Portland, OR 1-503-761-3003 24 305/105 Desert Dolphin, Las Cruces, NM 1-505-523-2811 96 322/230 Denis's OPUS, Ayer, MA (Ft.Devins) 1-508-772-6373 ? 382/1 Crystal Palace Lake Travis, TX 1-512-339-8037 24 387/401 Comp-U-Gen II San Antonio TX 1-512-496-9373 24 387/601 NCOA Intl BBS San Antonio TX 1-512-653-0409 24 382/14 Corona Del Mar Rockport, TX 1-512-729-7026 96 110/20 EDS Data Dayton, OH 1-513-455-2431 24 221/156 Waterloo CBCS PUBLIC Waterloo, ON 1-519-746-5020 96 153/130 VETSTAR (Northwest) 1-602-462-8752 24 114/13 Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ 1-602-644-0179 24 132/101 BBS Source Archive Nashua, NH 1-603-888-8179 24 153/123 DAETECH Burnaby BC 1-604-420-2641 96 153/133 Hot Line Data Network Langley BC 1-604-533-0421 24 220/20 Old Frog's Almanac Nanaimo BC 1-604-758-3072 24 153/508 Ebenezer Christian BBS Mission BC 1-604-826-6607 96 108/50 The ZOO BBS Independence, KY 1-606-283-2040 24 108/105 Global Time Systems Cincinnati, OH 1-606-341-7910 24 108/90 DATANET Info System Erlanger KY 1-606-727-3638 24 150/803 Jersey Vertex Moorestown, NJ 1-609-869-0139 24 362/1 The Mines of Moria Chattanooga, TN 1-615-344-9601 24 362/501 Coconut Telegraph Chattanooga, TN 1-615-698-4858 24 10/215 Silver BBS San Diego, CA 1-619-226-4502 24 202/401 jabberWOCky Escondido CA 1-619-743-9935 24 109/639 The RENEX BBS Woodbridge, VA 1-703-494-8331 24 109/124 ZEPHYR National Capital Area 1-703-620-5418 96 109/604 ShanErin Alexandria, VA 1-703-941-8291 24 379/201 Metro Link Charlotte, NC 1-704-553-9534 96 125/7 Survival Forum Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-545-0746 96 125/12 The Grape Vine Santa Rosa, CA 1-707-546-4938 24 161/502 Wildcat Benicia CA 1-707-746-5820 24 106/132 Fast BBS OPUS Katy, TX 1-713-392-0093 24 106/114 The Fireside Houston, TX 1-713-496-6319 24 106/357 TMBBS Houston, TX 1-713-497-5433 24 106/108 Stormy Weather I Houston, TX 1-713-644-4345 96 106/113 The Opus Network Houston, TX 1-713-780-4153 24 106/386 Info Center Exchange Houston TX 1-713-872-4429 24 106/111 Shutterbug's OPUS Houston, TX 1-713-880-4329 24 103/507 Philosopher's Log Anaheim CA 1-714-535-1258 96 103/501 Mount Silverthorn Tustin, CA 1-714-544-3369 24 7:441/1 Lord Frog Of Swamp 1-715-362-3895 ? 13/1033 NY Transfer Staten Island, NY 1-718-448-2358 24 12/7 HPCUA Honolulu HI 1-808-422-8406 96 12/1 Aura Net Honolulu, HI 1-808-533-0190 24 NAM VET Newsletter Page 116 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 130/5 CUSSNET UTA Arlington, TX 1-817-273-3966 24 366/38 Jolly Green Giant Shalimar, FL 1-904-651-3875 96 19/5 Micro Application El Paso TX 1-915-594-9738 24 381/201 Pro Link San Angelo, TX 1-915-944-2952 24 161/943 Eagle's Nest Sacramento, CA 1-916-334-2822 96 161/39 Nightline Mather AFB, CA 1-916-362-1755 24 161/11 The Byte Boutique Sacramento CA 1-916-483-8032 24 161/5 River City II OPUS Sacramento, CA 1-916-646-9678 96 161/34 Now and Zen OPUS Fair Oaks CA 1-916-962-1952 96 151/601 VMC-BBS Winston-Salem NC 1-919-744-0883 24 151/100 NC Central Raleigh, NC 1-919-851-8460 96 151/1000 REDCON Raleigh, NC 1-919-859-3353 96 632/350 Yarra Valley BBS Melbourne AU 61-3-848-331 12 NAM VET Newsletter Page 117 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 The NAM VET Roll Call The following are the current locations where the NamVet newsletter and Annual editions are currently sent and, as I understand it, available for Bark/Wazoo File Requests. FidoNet & AlterNet Nodes: ------------------------ Scott McKnight 1:389/2001 Blytheville, Arkansas Mike Nelson 1:125/20 Burlingame, California Greg Peters 1:103/232 La Mirada, California Sam Saulys 1:141/488 Branford, Connecticut John McCorkle 1:369/10 Fort Lauderdale, Florida Charles Harper 1:370/10 West Athens, Georgia Gene Clayton 1:161/414 Kauai, Hawaii Gordon Kaough 1:380/5 Lake Charles, LA Mort Sternheim 1:321/109 Amherst, Massachusetts G. Joseph Peck 1:321/203 Pittsfield, Massachusetts Pete Farias 1:321/210 Pittsfield, Massachusetts Vern Pero 1:321/212 Dalton, Massachusetts Jim Henthorn 1:261/1044 Baltimore, Maryland Bob Rudolph 1:261/0 Reisterstown, Maryland Wayne Parrish 1:308/20 Alamogordo, New Mexico Chuck Haynes 1:308/60 Alamogordo, New Mexico Mike Connealy 1:305/101 Las Cruces, New Mexico Kathleen Kelly 1:1033/0 Staten Island, New York Tom Mickus 1:480/114 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Bob Currie 1:105/204 Milwaukie, Oregon Luis Salazar 1:367/16 San Juan, P.R. Jerry Hindle 7:48/0 Stratford Heights, Tennessee Aaron Schmiedel 1:124/4106 Dallas, Texas Carrie Brown 1:130/10 Fort Worth, Texas Rick Edwards 1:106/113 Houston, Texas Bob Davis 1:106/116 Houston, Texas Art Fellner 1:106/437 Missouri City, Texas Ray Moreau 1:109/316 Herndon, Virginia Jim Barth 1:350/21 Brownsville, Washington Ralph Sims 1:350/341 Grapeview, Washington Other Nets: ---------- Martin Kroll MetroLink Chatsworth, GA Lefty Frizzell RelayNet Houston, Texas Ed Lucas QuickLink Houston, Texas Edward Green Shop Qbbs Exeter, NH (603)778-1698 Areas not covered: If *-YOUR-* BBS is in any of the areas listed below *-AND-* you have the NAM VET available for File Requests, please let us know your BBS (and SysOp) Name, its net/node number (if any), and its telephone number so that we might be able to direct a user in *- YOUR-* area to you. - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - Australian Continent - All European Continent - All NAM VET Newsletter Page 118 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Alabama Alaska Arizona Calgary, Canada Colorada Delaware Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Maine Minnesota Wisconsin Mississippi Missouri Connecticut Montana Nebraska New Jersey Nevada North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Pennsylvania South Carolina South Dakota Utah Vancouver, B.C Vermonts Washington, D.C. West Virginia Winnipeg, Canada Wyoming Thanx for your help... Ci'ao for Ni'ao -Joe- NamVet's Managing Editor NAM VET Newsletter Page 119 Volume 4, Number 4 April 10, 1990 Some Gave ALL ... Some Still Give!!! O O O SOME GAVE ALL ... ________O__________________________________O______________ ! O O ! ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia ! ! O O ! ! ~~~~~ ~ ~ O~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~~ ~ ~~ O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O) / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ / / O \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ! ! ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~ / PRISONER / \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ ! ! ~~~ ~ ~~ ~~ / OF /\ \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ / / \ IN \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~ / WAR / ~~ \ \ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ / / ~ ~~ \ ACTION / ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ! ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~ ! ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ! ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ! ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow ! !__________________________________________________________! 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