Subject: Interview with a Polish Cavalry Officer From: n8243374@animal.cc.wwu.edu (Kevin Tripp) I'm posting the following interview on behalf of an associate of mine, Todd Warger. Todd is currently working on an MA in Archives and Records Management through the History Department at Western Washington University, Bellingham, Washington, USA. -------------------------- Interview with Major Antoni Leon Landowski, Polish Cavalry by Todd Warger Major Antoni Leon Landowski was born in 1904, in the town of Koscierzyna, near Danzig, in the state of Pomorze. Because Poland did not exist officially at this time, Landowski, like many Poles, was considered a German citizen of Polish nationality. After completing his formal education Landowski joined the army in 1923. By 1926, he was an officer of the cavalry, serving in the 10th, and later, the 1st Strelcow Konnych. After graduating in 1937 from the Academy of war in Warsaw, Landowski was promoted to the rank of captain, and two years later to major and was appointed Quartermaster of Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade. During the last week of August 1939, Major Landowski was responsible for the mobilization of the brigade, which then proceeded to the formation area of Modlin army opposite the East Prussian border. After three days of desperate fighting with the German 3rd Army, Modlin army was forced to fall back to take up defensive positions between the Narew and Bug rivers. As the campaign in the north began to concentrate around besieged cities, the remainder of the Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade rode further south toward Poland's vast plains where it could take advantage of better maneuverability. But the Mazowiecka Brigade was hit several times by the Germans along the Lochow-Minsk Mazowiecka road and was forced to disperse. By mid-September the German army was deep inside Poland. The polish army was collapsing and news had been received of soviet intervention in the east. With the campaign rapidly coming to a close, Major Landowski, with his commander Colonel Jan Karcz, attempted to escape with the remnants of the brigade to the Hungarian border*. However, on September 21, the Germans caught the Mazowiecka brigade outside Suchowola and destroyed what was left of the cavalry brigade. After the September Campaign Landowski spent several months in the underground movement, until he was arrested on the streets of Warsaw. Major Landowski then spent the remainder of the war in Woldenberg and Murnu prison camps, until liberated in April 1945 by American troops. Landowski's remaining days of the war were spent with Polish forces as a captain serving in the British army in Italy. In 1946 Landowski held a position in the Polish Resettlement Corp. and helped to resettle those polish soldiers who refused to return to a communist Poland. Major Landowski retired September 8, 1948 after a 25 year military career. In 1949, Major Landowski was awarded Poland's Cross of Valour by the exiled Polish government for his part in the Polish Campaign of 1939. Today he lives a quiet life in the American southwest. Warger: When did you choose a military career? Landowski: As I was growing up in Poland, my entire youth was surrounded by warfare. My early teenage years saw Poland as an armed camp for the Imperial German Army during the First World War. Then in my late teens, after independence, Poland fought a desperate war against Russia to maintain that independence. Although many Poles saw Russia as the threat to our security after the Russo-Polish War, I still saw Germany as Poland's natural enemy. Therefore, after I completed my education I decided to go to the Polish officer's training school to become a professional soldier. I enlisted in the army in September 1923 and started my career as a private. Poland was in need of Polish officers. During the first years of our independence most of our officers came from foreign countries. They were Russian, Austrian, French, German and many others. There were few Polish officers except those in the Legion of Jozef Pilsudski, the 1st Brigade. They fought in World War I on the side of Austria against Russia. These officers were not of polish schools, because there were no Polish military schools in Austria or anywhere for that matter. They were schooled on the battlefield. Warger: How did one become an officer? Landowski: To become a student in the officer's training school, you had to have an education equivalent to a high school degree or to pass an entry exam. The first year was a common education for all branches of the military, infantry, artillery, cavalry, navy, airforce or engineering. The easiest was to enter the infantry. I wanted the cavalry. It was quite difficult to be accepted to the cavalry. The most important duties included learning how to properly ride a horse and to learn different cavalry tactics. After two years of training, we graduated with the rank of lieutenant and went to one of forty regiments of the cavalry. These included Szwolezerow, Ulans and Strzelcow Konnych. Warger: And where were you assigned? Landowski: I was first appointed from 1926 to 1931 with the 10th regiment of the Strzelcow Konnych and started my duties as a lieutenant in Lancut, in the south of Poland. I remember this because I was just leaving officers training school when Marshal Jozef Pilsudski revolted against the government. Pilsudski was a hero of the Russo-Polish war by defeating the Russians in the famous battle of Warsaw. Pilsudski was now head of state. Warger: What were your duties? Landowski: My duties consisted of a lot of riding, a pleasure, but also educating the recruits in cavalry tactics. Everyday I was awake and in my squadron by four in the morning. I would take an hour for lunch and then I was back in the saddle until six o'clock in the afternoon, sometimes longer. Weekdays we would go through two horses daily, sometimes three. Saturdays were usually the longest day. Sundays were duty free and it was not even in good taste to ride. Beyond the duties and training of the men, was the education of us officers by the commander of our regiment. This would last about five hours during the latter part of the afternoons. The theme was of course cavalry tactics on the regiment level in battle. During winter there were small maneuvers, mostly not far from the garrison. Sometimes this was in very sharp frost. In the autumn every year there were big maneuvers, which my regiment spent mostly in the eastern part of Poland. This was foreseen as the future battleground in a war with Russia. Warger: In 1935 you were accepted into the Academy of War in Warsaw? Landowski: By 1931, I was posted to the 1st Strzelcow Konnych so to be nearer to Warsaw. This way I could prepare myself better for the Academy of War. The entrance exam was very difficult. From the four hundred candidates only about forty or fifty were accepted, but even those did not all finish, many would later withdraw from the academy. I started my studies in 1935 and graduated from the academy in 1937, with the rank of captain. Warger: By the late 1930's Germany was becoming a powerful country again. Had this increased your fear's of Germany being Poland's natural enemy? Landowski: Since Hitler appeared on the political scene, I was never more convinced of a future war, war would not be with Russia, but with Germany. Warger: You were next assigned to the Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade until the end of the war in Poland. What was your position in the brigade and your duties there? Landowski: That's right. For the last two years I served in the Mazowiecka Cavalry. At first my duties included lots of paper shuffling, but again, the most important duty was to train the men and younger officers of the brigade. Then I was promoted to the rank of major and become quartermaster of the brigade. This was a very important and difficult job. You see, each brigade or division in the army required up to four supply columns to support them. Everyday each column would receive from the army ammunition, food and other such articles as medicine, uniforms, etc. As the quartermaster of the brigade, I would write orders for supplies each day and maintain correspondence with the columns. I would tell each column were to go, what supplies to receive from the army and what to deliver to the regiments. It was very difficult to coordinate during peace time and nearly impossible during the war. When the war came in September the army stopped dispensing supplies, which happened already during the first days. I had to find equipment, food and ammunition on my own. That was very difficult because I could only supply the brigade with what the civil population could give or sell me. It was easy to get what the horses required, but not so easy those things fighting men needed. It was impossible to get ammunition. We had to take that from the Germans, when we could. What I remember most during those days was the making of bread. Our bread was made either by the army or by the brigade itself. I myself made bread several times when we were in difficult situations during the war, which was a lot of the time. Bread became a stable diet that September. Warger: What exactly did the Mazowiecka Brigade consist of? Landowski: The brigade consisted of three regiments, the 7th General K. Sosnkowcki's Lubelski Ulans and 11th E. Smigly-Rydz Legionary Ulans, and the Jozef Pilsudski 1st light horse. There was a horse artillery section, which I believe contained 4 batteries, a bicycle squadron, engineer, communication sections and supply columns with many wagons. I should also add, when the war came these same supply wagons were very valuable in evacuating wounded as we were withdrawing from the front lines during the German advance. I remember these supply columns being unarmed at the beginning of the war. I realized this danger and assigned a small unit of twenty-five men to protect each of our four columns. They were positioned as rear guard to protect the evacuating wounded. Warger: How strong was the brigade, in man power? Landowski: I would say about 7000 men and about as many horses. We would later lose many of both men and horses. Warger: Would you say the Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade was at full strength on September, 1, 1939? Landowski: The brigade mobilized before the war broke out, so we had time to assemble all our forces. We had everything that was foreseen in our pre-war plans. Other units were forced to mobilize during the war. They were not so lucky. The professional soldiers and recruits could not arrive in time, nor could they find their pre-assigned assembly areas. Horses were scattered all over. The supply dumps and ammunition magazines were already being bombed by the Luftwaffe. During the war several divisions never made it to full strength. Everything happened so fast. Most of the mobilization was performed with Hitler's forces already inside Poland and under constant Luftwaffe attack. No one was safe from the Luftwaffe. Warger: When did the general mobilization actually begin? Landowski: Just prior to the war. The army was gradually increasing its strength all summer. Many units were alerted during the last week of August, we were one of them. But it wasn't until the last two days that a full mobilization took place across Poland. Warger: What was happening with Mazowiecka Brigade at this time? Landowski: I was in my office when I finally received the word from the brigade commander, Colonel Jan Karcz, to begin full mobilization. This was five days before the outbreak of war. I was responsible for all its planning. I didn't sleep for days and had not a moment to leave my post. When preparations were complete and as the brigade was on the move, I drove to my home in Warsaw to see my family. I had little time to spare and I don't even remember how I said good-bye to my wife and daughter. I then left to rejoin my brigade. Warger: Who was in command of Modlin Army and where was the concentration area? Landowski: We were under the command of Brigadier General Krukowicz-Przedrzymirski. The brigade arrived north of Warsaw and took up positions around Mlawa just opposite of the East Prussian border. Modlin Army consisted of the Mazowiecka and Nowogrodzka cavalry brigades and the 8th and 20th infantry divisions. Also there were other support units, some artillery regiments, armored trains and an air arm. Warger: Had you any idea what German forces you faced? Landowski: Word was that we were facing elements of the German 3rd army, the Wodrig Corps and the Kempf Panzer Division. Warger: what was the atmosphere like? Landowski: The atmosphere was excellent. It was a little like maneuvers. There was much excitement, much anticipation. We were ready to meet the Germans. Warger: What were the brigades' orders when the Germans attacked? Landowski: Orders from the high command were for us to make the march of the enemy as difficult as possible. We were told to hold the line in hopes that England and France would declare war, and attack Germany from the west. Of course the Germans were much stronger than we were. And they had tanks. But we stopped them. We also took a lot of prisoners, but had no place to put them. Many of them just escaped at night. Warger: What happened next? Landowski: We suffered many casualties after three days of intensive fighting and could contain the Germans no longer. The brigade started moving backwards, step by step back toward the direction of Modlin-Warsaw and the Bug River. The 8th Infantry took positions in the defense of Modlin. The 20th Infantry was ordered to Warsaw and the Nowogrodzka Brigade heading south. The Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade fell back to the southeast and linked up with part of Wyszkow Reserve Group. We then tried to hold a defensive line on the Bug river. Warger: How was the morale at this point? Landowski: Nobody was discouraged, not until the night of September 11th. Not far from the town of Zegrze, we were attacked suddenly by a large concentration of infantry and tanks. After heavy fighting the brigade broke contact with the Germans and was divided into three groups, all marching in several directions, some scattered toward the west, a detachment linked up with the Nowogrodzka cavalry brigade further south and I marched south with the main portion of the brigade. We were now on our own. The Wyzakow reserve group was scattered all over the place. Warger: Had you any idea what was happening elsewhere? Landowski: No, we did not know what was happening anywhere, except by mid-September we had heard of fighting outside of Warsaw and north of Lwow. Then on the 17th, news arrived that the Russians were coming to defend us. We knew that was untrue. Once we had recovered from the battle during September 11th, what was left of the brigade marched in the direction of General Ander's Nowogrodzka Brigade. We would try to link up and cross into Hungary. Unfortunately we were stopped by General Dab-Biernacki, Commander of what was left of Group Prusy. He just did not understand the situation we were in. Instead of uniting with Anders and fighting our way to Hungary, Dab-Biernacki made us take another stand against the Germans near the town of Suchowola. This was a disaster. Warger: There must not have been much for a quartermaster to do anymore? Landowski: There was nothing left to take for supplies from a non-existing army. Instead Colonel Karcz made me his operations officer. I would write tactical orders for the regiments and was at all times near the colonel. Warger: On the night of September 21, the Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade fought its last battle. What do you remember? Landowski: We were outside Suchowola when the brigade was encircled by the Germans. I actually received little reports from the field. It was dark and there was much confusion. The engagement lasted about 10 hours and even though I was only a hundred yards from the fighting I saw little of what was happening. I knew it was over for us. We were able to destroy a portion of the Germans, enough to delay them from entirely overrunning us. But in doing this we were unable to bring the brigade together again. Colonel Karcz was very depressed. He gave me an unwritten order to dissolve the brigade and escape to save ourselves from capture. This was my last order as an officer in the Mazowiecka Brigade, and I personally carried it out. Warger: Were many of you able to escape capture? Landowski: I heard later that elements of the 7th and 11th Ulans continued south, how far I do not know. We marched in small groups west toward the San River. A group of officers and I followed Colonel Karcz. The colonel went to a small farm house for civilian clothes for us, then we all went our separate ways. I found out some years after the war that Colonel Karcz was shot and killed at Auschwitz for attempting to lead a revolt at the camp. I was half in uniform and half in civilian clothes. It was difficult to avoid the Germans, they were everywhere. On the road to Warsaw I was captured twice and twice I escaped. It was easy to escape, although one sergeant said to me, "don't try to escape, we will not stop you, we will shoot." When I reached Warsaw I found out that the Germans were ordering all Polish officers to register their names and addresses with them and then we were free to return home. I didn't believe them and refused to register. I was right not to, soon all officers were taken and sent somewhere to the west. Warger: What about you? Landowski: I joined the underground movement, which was forming, called the Armia Krajowa. At this early time we did nothing but recruit and wait. I was only with the movement for three months, because in December I was arrested on the street. I had at first trouble explaining why I wasn't registered. This time they had me. Warger: And you were taken away? Landowski: Yes, because I spoke excellent German it may have saved my life. I could talk my way out of serious trouble, or at least out of execution. They sent me to a temporary camp in Poland and from there to Woldenberg where I remained a prisoner until January 1945. Warger: How were you treated and what was the camp like? Landowski: You didn't know if you would live from one day to the next. Once the guards started to shoot at us while we were outside the barracks walking. No reason for this shooting. Soon epidemics and sickness broke out. There were psychological disorders due to incarceration, many cases ended in suicide. This camp was a test for us, to keep in form, to survive and many of us did survive in quite good shape. The camp was surrounded by three lines of barbed wire. Guards were on towers on every corner and patrolled along the wire with dogs. I remember it being worse for us when the Germans suspected escape tunnels being built. The ones who worried the most were us in the barracks closest to the wire. My barracks, barracks 17, was one of them. It was ridiculous to check the barracks three or four times a week for tunnels, but the commandant did just that. Regardless of the weather or the time, we waited three to six hours outside while inspection went on. The Germans took pleasure in this during snow, frost, rain, the worst conditions to stand outside. Warger: Did you ever try escaping? Landowski: Only once, but it never got off the ground. In 1943, I was told by my superiors in the camp that it was my turn to make the attempt. Sooner or later everyone would at least try to escape. It was during this same time when I was to escape that some of the guards had been stealing our mail and red cross packages. On the day I was to go, my name was found on a parcel from home in the room of one of the guards. I didn't know this at the time when a guard came to me and said, come on Landowski the commandant wants you. At that moment, I had several names of contacts in the underground in my pocket and a map in my other pocket. A bad move on my part to have these. I wanted to get rid of these papers. I told the guard to wait and I would put on a different jacket that was more presentable, but he insisted I come as I was. I was worried because we were normally searched before seeing the commandant. If this list was found I would be interrogated and tortured. Then I got this idea, I took out the map and attempted to destroy it in front of the guard. He was so surprised he grabbed it and hauled me into the commandant's office without searching me. The commandant laughed at me while waving the torn map in my face. "Why would you want to leave us Landowski" he asked, then asked me about my parcel from my family found with the guard and then sent me on my way laughing still at me. I never tried to escape after that. Warger: Were you able to receive much information from the outside? Landowski: Yes, we sometimes received underground newspapers secretly and burnt them after reading them. Also we had a secret radio, through this we could hear London. The radio was hidden in a stove during the summer and in the sick bay area during the winter. During the summer I had daily news from the radio, because it was held in a neighboring barracks. In winter a messenger would run to each barracks with news, when this was possible. Warger: What was happening in the camp toward the end of the war? Landowski: At the end of 1944 and in the beginning of 1945 things were worse. Most of the Russian prisoners were killed and we had to hear such things as, "regardless of the end of this war, you Polish will not survive." There was also an underground movement similar to those on the outside, but it was directed toward collecting information, escape and protection. We were prepared to fight if the guards or the Gestapo were to come into the camp and liquidate us. There was a special battalion of 700 officers under command of a colonel from the Polish general staff before the war. We were all under oath to defend ourselves. Warger: You knew the allies were getting close? Landowski: Oh yes. In January 1945, the front line was so close to our camp the Germans decided to evacuate us to another camp in the west. We knew the Soviets were approaching fast. This was a tragic day. We were forced to march in snow and heavy wind with everything we could carry on our shoulders. We started on January 25th in battalion size groups and covered twenty-five to thirty kilometeres a day. They marched us faster and faster, the Germans were not thinking of us, but themselves. At one point we were under Russian fire. They shot into the prisoners and our escort disappeared for an hour or so. They fought a short battle with the Russians and the escort returned. Seventeen polish officers who survived five years in Woldenberg lost their lives. We marched until we reached the Oder River and from there we were transported by animal wagons to Murnau. The last months were very difficult for us because there was little food. We could only wait and hope for the allies to liberate us. Warger: You didn't have much longer to wait? Landowski: No, in April German troops entered the camp. We thought they were Gestapo come to kill all of us. Only twenty minutes later there was a fight between these men and the Americans right before our eyes. Only a few Germans escaped. Many others were dead in front of the camp. Warger: How did you spend the rest of the war and your career? Landowski: After a few days at Murnau with allied relief, a polish officer came to the camp and told us to stay put and wait to be moved out or head to Italy and join a Polish unit there, the 2nd corps. With that we were off and managed to somehow reach Italy. By then the war was closing. There I met some old friends who I knew in Poland. I joined up with the 2nd Corps, but to my disappointment there was no need for a major or a quartermaster so my rank was reduced to that of a captain. I was then sent to Egypt to learn to drive a tank and shoot from it. There was little work to do. The afternoons were mostly free, a rest after five years of imprisonment. Then in June 1946, I was sent to England to prepare for the Polish Resettlement Corp, which I took an active part in. This was established by the British authorities for those polish soldiers who did not want to return to a communist Poland. We learned different trades so we could find work, but stayed in uniform until 1948. Then given no money, but a new civilian suit we were sent into retirement. Warger: When you reflect back on the war, does any one thought stand out? Landowski: Well, I believe if only General Dab-Biernacki had not interfered, the battle at Suchowola would have never occurred. The Mazowiecka and Nowogrodzka Cavalry Brigades could have linked and we could have reached Hungary. There was no reason to have stopped us. <<>> * Following the Munich Agreement of 1938, the southern portion of Slovakia (where the population was largely Magyar) was ceded to Hungary, giving Poland and Hungary a common border in September 1939. (KNT) ========================================