( ... My understanding is that for the ) new (or at least, current) counties, then the name alone is OK ( (although you do get Cyngor Sir Dyfed I think) Er, that would be because it is a Cyngor Sir, rather than because it is `Sir Dyfed'. To me it brackets to the left, so it is the county council of Dyfed, rather than the council of Dyfed county. I see (hear) nothing odd in `Cyngor Dyfed' in everyday use, since nothing else is called that, but they use the full form in their adverts. Similarly, Cyngor Dosbarth Dwyfor, or Cyngor Dwyfor, but Dwyfor rather than Dosbarth Dwyfor unless, say, you were making a distinction between the area and the administrative District. (A gyda llaw, roedd y bathiad o `cyngor bro' yn lle rhyw gyfieithiad o `community council' yn wyrthiol o ysbrydoledig o ystyried mai rhyw was suful oedd yn gyfrifol, yn ol pob tebyg. Tybed be ddaw o'r drefn newydd?) A gan mod i yma, dyma'r enwau rydw i'n eu harfer ar y trefi yn Y Rhestr Fawr. Dichon bod enwau Cymraeg eraill -- hwyrach y gwnaiff rhywyn ychwanegu atynt: Aylesbury Bath Caerfaddon Bedford Birkenhead Pen Bedw, ond roeddwn ni'n arfer Pen Bedw am `The Wirral' adre, er mai `Cilgwri' neu `Cilgwril' sy'n iawn mae'n debyg Birmingham Blackburn Blackpool Bolton Bournemouth Bradford . Brighton Bristol Bryste, mae Caerodor i'w gael hefyd, ond braidd yn ffuantus Buckingham Cambridge Caergrawnt Carlisle Caerliwelydd Cheltenham Chester Caer usually, Caerllion Fawr for distinction from others (beware Sir Gaer = Sir Gaerfyrddin, Camarthenshire, but Swydd Gaer = Cheshire. Heh; and back home, Sir Gaer = Cheshire. Context.) Chesterfield Chichester Caerfuddai oedd o gynt, ond wn i ddim fuaswn i'n defnyddio hwn Colchester . Coventry Crewe Criw -- honnai Bedwyr Lewis Jones mai ffurf ar y Gymraeg `cryw' (? = Saes. creel, weir) yw'r enw Derby Doncaster Dorchester Dover Durham Ely Exeter Caerwysg Gloucester Caerloyw . Harrogate Hereford Henffordd Hertford Hull Huntingdon Ipswich Lancaster Caerhirfryn Leeds Leicester Caerly+r Leominster Llanlleni (neu Llanlleini, neu Llanllieni, 'dydw i ddim yn sicr) . Lewes Lincoln Liverpool Lerpwl, ond bod Llynlleifiad i'w gael, eto braidd yn ffals London Llundain Ludlow Llwydlo Maidenhead Maidstone Manchester Manceinion Monmouth Trefynwy (not really all that English, that one) Newcastle . Northampton Norwich Nottingham Oxford Rhydychen Penrith Penrhudd Penzance Peterborough Plymouth Portsmouth Preston . Reading Rotherham Rugby Runcorn St. Albans St. Helens Sain Helen (no, really...) Salford Salisbury Caersallog Sheffield Southampton . Stafford Stockport Stoke Swindon Taunton Wakefield Warwick Wigan Wolverhampton Worcester Caerwrangon York Caerefrog, or just Efrog (so Yorkshire is Swydd Efrog, and not Swydd Gaerefrog) And what about: Avon This /ought to be/ the Welsh name, of course... Berkshire Cleveland Cornwall Cernyw Cumbria Devon Dyfnaint Dorset Essex Greater London Greater Manchester . Hampshire Humberside Kent Caint (cf Canterbury = Caergaint) Merseyside Glannau Merswy Norfolk Northumberland / Northumbria Shropshire Swydd Amwythig (cf Shrewsbury = yr Amwythig) Somerset Gwlad yr Haf Suffolk Surrey . Sussex Tyne & Wear West Midlands Wiltshire ( And if I have omitted any English places which do have Welsh names, please ) let me know. Oh, lots of them. That was my (half-serious) point about lists. Almost all the place-names in the Marches, for example, will be corruptions of Welsh names and some people will use the Welsh forms -- in Denbighshire and Cheshire, for example, y Terfyn for Tarvin, yr Orsedd for Rossett, y Groesffordd for Gresford, Brychdyn and Penarla+g for Broughton and Hawarden, Croes Oswallt for Oswestry, Eglwysi Basau for Baschurch; it goes on and on. I am sure that someone from the other end of the border could reel off a similar list for Gwent and Gloucester, but what is the point? Place names are for naming places and if you never need to name the places you never need either of the place names. Glastonbury might be one of those, because it would have been a `Clas', like Clas ar Wy, although these days it -- and Glastonbury Tor also -- is called Ynys Afallon (yes, really, The Island of Avalon, the land of apple-trees). Winchester is Caerwynt, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Welsh name is older there too. Catterick was Catraeth, although the idea of a Catraeth race-course strikes me as odd ('Ffylau a o aeth Catraeth oedd ffraeth eu llu... Ac wedi elwch, betio a fu... ac yn y blaen.) And many places in anglophone Scotland have Welsh names too, but you were asking about English ones. I am ambivalent about Cambrification of English names for places abroad (Pra+g, rather than Praha; Fflorens rather than Firenze) but that seems to be The Thing To Do. I don't see why Mosco or Moscow rather than Moscfa or Moscwa, whereas we talk about Ynysoedd Heledd and Ynysoedd Erch even though they were never Welsh. Ah, and this is not the place to resurrect the squabble about Rhyfel y Cilfor and Rhyfel y Gwlff. The places in the West Country and Cumbria, of course, will have names in other P-celtic languages. I know Penzance has a Cornish name, but I forget what it is -- they are often much less recognisable than corruptions of Welsh names. -------------- Ac, o'r diwedd, y cynnwys: does gen i fawr o grap ar ddearyddiaeth Lloegr, ac mae'n rhaid cyfaddef nad ydw i'n hollol sicr lle mae rhai o'r trefi eraill. Rydw i'n cofio pan oeddwn i'n bryderus am yr anallu i `gyfieithu' enwau. Mae gen i eirfa helaeth, er engraifft, o enwau Cymraeg ar adar, ac un tebyg o enwau Saesneg ar adar, ond prin ar y naw yw'r enwau Cymraeg y gallwn i drosi i'r Saesneg, nag yn ol y ffordd arall, ar wahan i'r rhai amlwg. Roeddwn i'n arfer ystyried bod hwn yn ddiffyg ar un ai fy Nghymraeg neu'm Saesneg, tan yr hyfryd ddydd y torodd gwawr y goleuni -- nid diffyg iaith ond diffyg adaryddiaeth yw'r broblem, gan nad oes gen i dim mwy o syniad pa aderyn yw `telor mawr glas y pentan bach llwyd' na chwaith `greater spotted herbaceous wifflesnatcher' pa obaith gwybod sut i `gyfieithu' o un i'r llall? O'r gollyngdod! Mae gen i syniad bod hi'n haws i rhywun sydd mwy neu lai yn gaeth i un iaith i dwyllo eu hunain eu bod nhw'n `gwybod' rhywbeth am eu bod nhw'n gwybod yr enw arno. Ar y llaw arall, rydw i'n cofio syrthio i'r un fagl. Tan i mi fynd i Loegr i'r coleg, roedd crefydd yn rhywbeth uniaith Gymraeg, ac rydw i'n cofio gofyn i rywun dros baned ar ol Capel un Sul beth oedd ystyr `The Atonement' gyda llythrenau bras amlwg. Fe'i synwyd hithau -- roedd hi'n dilyn cwrs diwinyddiaeth ar y pryd -- gan gwestiwn mor ddi-daro am sylfeini Ffydd, ac fe'i syfrdanwyd hi pan oedd Y Geiriadur Mawr yn ddigon i mi fedru / dweud mod i'n gwybod; nid mod i'n deallt `yr Iawn' dim mwy nag yr oeddwn / i o'r blaen, ond roeddwn i o leiaf yn gwybod beth oedd testun y bregeth. / g