Yiddish Mailing List, Issue #30 August 12, 1990 190 lines =============================== New member (Shobbse Dubin) Yiddish joke theory (Shobbse Dubin) More about the "Russians" (Nahum Goldmann) New member (Stan Zietz) Language of Russian Olim (Dovid-Noyekh Miller) [Nu, ver vil shikn a pur verter farn nekstn numer...? - DS] ------------------------ Digest-Message: 30/1 From: Shobbse Date: Sat, 28 Jul 90 08:56:39 EDT Subject: [new member] A sheinem dank for sending me the "fun" issue. I heard about the mailing list from Chaver Stan Zietz when he sent me a message asking what "post-rishime" means. Do you have a standard transliteration table for Yiddish into roman letters? I have a Macintosh with the Mac in Hebrew desk accessory and it would be a fun project to make a transliteration program. My parents - aleihem hasholem - spoke Yiddish in the home, but that was many years ago. I studied a bit of Hebrew formally (Gratz College and Machon L'Madrichei Chutz L'Aretz) but that was also a rather long time ago (1958). I am particularly interested in Yiddish as it relates to the "labor" culture and the arts. Although I was frumm as a youth (I began the study of veterinary medicine after getting my certification in shechita and milah) I have become quite disillusioned with the paid rabbinical leadership and the rabinnical approach to Judaism in general. My current "daytime gig" is college teaching in a program of biomedical engineering, and I have a small company that makes teaching and clinical decision support software for veternary medicine. Bring on that good ole mumma loosh'n! ------------------------ Digest-Message: 30/2 Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 09:15:36 EDT From: Shobbse Subject: Yiddish joke theory There has been some little discussion in the U.S. press lately over whether obscenity should be judged by group cultural standards as compared to the customary local community standards. In particular this theory has been raised with respect to the lyrics of "rap" songs. Although the Jewish community has always respected the sensitivities of the local milchama, I believe that there is a major difference in the tone or flavor of obscenity in the Yiddish culture. From my early childhood,It has been my strong perception that really bad (punishable) language was chillul Hashem - vain taking or, chas v'shalom, desecration of holy things. I received a substantial knip for saying things like, "Gee Whiz," "Jiminy Cricket," "Cripes." ,"Bloody" (by our lady)etc.; not to mention the more explicit names for the famous early Christian religious leader. Kal v'choimer if I ever made reference to God trivially or disrespectfully. As with Chaver Yossel, this ban extended to "Gosh," "darn," "Gol dang," et sui generis. Goodbye ( along with "Vaya con Dios) was no problem since it was said as a blessing. By comparison, reference to body parts, reproduction and excretion was restricted only by aesthetic sensitivity. My bubbas and zeidas - aleihem hasholom - often told jokes and stories with reproductive and scatologic overtones to the exquisite delight of all us kinderlach. I have included just such a story in gemishte Anglo/Yiddish which I believe illustrates my theory. Of course, if my theory is incorrect, you should not "publish" the story due to its naughtiness. A successful Yid from New York visited his old shtet'l in Russia. After a few days he was confronted by the irate Rebbe of the town. "Reb Chaim, you must either cease and desist from your blasphemy or leave our little shtet'l m'yad." "Rebbenu," he replied," I have tried to be a frumme Yid, and I am not aware of any chillul Hashem that I have committed here." The Rebbe is ehrclairt, "You have told my people that in your town of New York, there are buildings vus gein gleich in Himmel. Vir vissen az nur Gott is in Himmel and there are no buildings which may go into heaven (cf. Tower of Babbel)." Apologetically the New Yorker held up his hand with the thumb and index finger held about an inch apart. He said," Rebbe, az nit gleich in Himmel, nor a zoi veiter!" The rabbi responded," Although your town may be much larger, we have miracles and marvels in our little shtet'l as well. Last week a fru is geboiren a kind derech dem toochas." The New Yorker protested that such an occurence was not only anatomically absurd, but contrary to the laws of God. Now it was the rabbi's turn to make hold up his hand with the thumb and index finger poised about an inch apart. He said, with simple piety," Az nit gleich derech dem toochas, Nor a zoi veiter!!" ------------------------ Digest-Message: 30/3 Subject: Still about the "Russians" Date: Fri, 27 Jul 90 10:30:00 EDT From: Nahum (N.) Goldmann Seth R Rosenthal writes on the Russians speaking Yiddish: >> They told me that this >> was more natural in the smaller towns and villages where >> Jews still live. In the big cities very few speak Yiddish >> as it is considered provincial and non-cosmopolitan... Also, >> ...survival of Yiddish outside the Chassidic world means in >> day-to-day dealings (first language). As such, I don't think >> my example applies. Their day-to-day language is Russian, >> they used Yiddish when it was clear Russian wouldn't work for >> me, etc... All of the above is absolute truth but is only a partial truth. The reality also is that even the people who are proud to speak Yiddish would not dare to use it in public,in a small town or a large city, as it will certainly provoke - at best - a negative reaction from the non-Jews and - at worst - a violent reaction from some dranks on the street (any Soviet provincial town is usually full of dranks who would not have a better entertainment than to beat a couple of "Zhids"). Especially bad is a plight of a kid who would be known to his classmates to use Yiddish, even at home with parents. This hits the very survival of this language. None of the above should be taken as an indication that all the Russians, Ukrainians, and Bielorussians are anti-semitic. But a very substantial portion of impoverished population is glad to blame the Jews. Yiddish provides the clear-cut identification and thus is especially avoided outside of the narrow circle of older family and friends. As a result, it has in the USSR a strange aura of SUBVERSIVE activity, which our still older friends in Florida would not even comprehend (and good for them). ------------------------ Digest-Message: 30/4 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 90 22:44:32 EDT From: szietz@king.mcs.drexel.edu (Stanley Zietz) Subject: a dank Thank you for placing me on the mailing list. I received the newsletter you sent me. I found out about the Mailing list while browsing through a list of lists that was posted to our system. Growing up in New York, although my parents could communicate in Yiddish, I only learned to understand a smattering, and could not read at all. Only in recent years have I started to teach myself to read by working through College Yiddish. This was (and is) slow going, since I would have preferred to have a bilingual work to read, for the immediate feedback. Hopefull, we are transmitting to our daughters (now 8 & 3) a firmer background in Yiddish. (Are there bilingl books for children available? I look forward to future issues. Stan Zietz P.S. I have spread the word both to colleagues who have email and also to some that aren't networked yet. ------------------------ Digest-Message: 30/5 From: DNMILLER@OSU-20.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU (David Neal Miller) Subject: Re: Language of Russian olim Date: 22 Jul 90 13:45:25 GMT The assertion that "only the older generation knows Yiddish" is incorrect. Jewish emigrants, especially (but not exclusively) from the Baltic republics, may be presumed to know Yiddish. Of course, this is not always the case, but many Jews have learned from their Soviet experience not to flag themselves as ethnic or "nationalist." Add to this the general (and, happily, waning) Israeli antipathy to things Yiddish, and Soviet emigrants are often apprehensive about using their (in the case of younger people, often imperfect) Yiddish. Allowing for exceptions, Yiddish is _still_ the language of choice for communicating with Soviet immigrants. Even those of us with Russian might try speaking to a Jew in his/her Jewish language: you'd be surprised at how many defenses drop and how much more intimate the exchange. ------------------------ SOF FUN NUMER 30 ------------------------ David (Daniel Moishe) Sherman, Toronto Moderator, mail.yiddish uunet!attcan!lsuc!dave or {AT&T sites}!att!lsuc!dave dave@lsuc.on.ca attcan!lsuc!dave@uunet.uu.net