Yiddish Mailing List, Issue #48 October 9, 1991 103 lines =============================== Yiddish orthography (Ellen Prince) Vowel differences for Galitsianer pronunciation (Bob Goldberg) ------------------------ Digest-Message: 48/1 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1991 21:45:38 -0400 From: Ellen Prince i have nothing to add to dave's excellent summary of hebrew vs. yiddish orthography except a few background notes. first, the yiddish orthographic system he describes is very very modern, like 20th century. before, many systems were used, some quite like the hebrew one. second, the practice of retaining the original spelling for hebrew borrowings was not adopted in the soviet union, where ALL words are written according to the standard orthographic system. (and i hope this will not be a casualty of the current westernization of the ussr!) understandably, it was also not adopted in the rest of the world in the writings of the extreme left. i have a wonderful elementary school primer by moyshe nadir published in ny in the 1930s, all in standard orthography (include the author's first name: mem-vov-yod-shin-ayin!), and full of passages on lenin and the horrors of sweatshops and the hope for tomorrow. ------------------------ Digest-Message: 48/2 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1991 18:57:59 -0400 From: xidak!poseidon!bob@uunet.UU.NET (Robert N. Goldberg) Subject: Vowel differences for Galitsianer pronunciation It took me a while to reconcile Yiddish spelling with bobe's and zeyde's pronunciation in galitsianer yiddish, as well as the so-called "sepharidishe" Hebrew davening. Here are the differences I have observed, all in vowels: YIVO Vowel Standard (litvish) Galitsianer ---- ----- ------------------ -------------------- a patakh-aleph English short a same o kometz-aleph "aw" as in law "oo" as in pool (and kometz is pronounced "koometz") y/i yud between short i and long E same e ayin "e" as in led same ey yud-yud English long A varies: long A or I ay yud-yud-patakh English long I varies: long A or I u vov "oo" as in pool i or ee oy vov-yud "oy" as in oy vey same Thus, in Galitsianer, "nokh a mol" is pronounced "nukh a mul" (using YIVO transliteration). Similarly, "du bist do" (you are here) is pronouced "di bist du". I have heard the Galitsianer pronunciation in Hebrew refered to as "davenen sephardish". An example is "burikh atu" instead of "borukh ato", and "v'imeri umayn" instead of "v'imeru omeyn". If you want to hear a native speaker do this, listen to the rabbi in the final scene of the movie, "A Fiddler On The Roof", in which he is chanting the kaddish, and you'll hear "v'imeri umayn". Perhaps due to the effects of Litvish assimilation on my grandparents' pronunciations, I find no consistency in differences between yud-yud and yud-yud-patakh variations. If I consistently pronouce a patakh-less yud-yud as either ey or ay, it does not match the way they spoke, and the standard spelling seems to match most of the time. The New York Yiddish dailies never used a yud-yud-patakh, which I conjecture is due to the many differences in pronunciation of those vowels by readers. Thus, you can hear (using the YIVO vowels) at least three of the following: fleysh mit beyner fleysh mit bayner flaysh mit beyner flaysh mit bayner Another difference in pronunciation that I have noticed is an interchange of "oy" and the Hebrew long O "oh", as in the following: Standard Yiddish My Grandparents ---------------- --------------- moyl (mouth) mohel (rhymes with "coal") mohel (circumcisor) moyl boykh (belly) bohekh ("oh" is long O, and two syllables) Again, I have heard this combined with the other Galitsianer changes in Hebrew prayer, as "ho-ohlam" coming out as "hu-oylem". These are personal observations, and I'd appreciate a pointer to a reference that codifies these differences. ... Bob P.S. I am sending this message to both the MENDELE list and the Yiddish Mailing List, since I'm not clear on which list is more appropriate for this subject. [Since it started here, I'm continuing it here. - DS] ------------------------ SOF FUN NUMER 48 ------------------------ David (Daniel Moishe) Sherman, Toronto Moderator, mail.yiddish dave@lsuc.on.ca (416) 889-7658