Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 6.286
April 15, 1997

1) Yiddish in Hebrew letters (Morrie Feller)
2) The study of Askenaz (Miriam Isaacs)
3) Nivl-pe (Les Train)
4) Yidishe lider (Raphael Finkel)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:25:34 -1000
From: feller@indirect.com
Subject: Yiddish in Hebrew letters

In response to David Lidsky (6.285), I, too, would like to be able to
send and receive Yiddish written with Hebrew characters.  I have the
Nisus Hebrew program, and I am also on the Mikhtav list.  I receive a
Hebrew post every day with a summary of news from Ha'aretz.  Other
posts by individuals also come in.  And I have the capability of
sending Hebrew messages.  But there is a problem.  All the Hebrew that
you see has absolutely no sign of a Hebrew vowel.  In order to write
standard Yiddish, one needs to use Hebrew vowels.  The current system
does not have this capability, but according to a past notice from
Yankl Halpern, such a system is being worked on.  If he sees this
post, perhaps he would honor us with a brief report on the progress
being made.

Morrie Feller
Phoenix

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:42:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: miriamis@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
Subject: The study of Askenaz

Ikh vil tsugebn tsu Dovid Roskies' forshlag [6.285] far Ashkenaz
Studies, ober... ober vos hengt in "ober". Akhutz di Yidishe shprakh
un yo Rashi, darf men oykh nisht fargesn az men muz zikh farnemen mit
di lebns fun di froyen -- nutzndik di ale naye forshungen vegn
froyenslebn in Ashkenaz. Ikh bin maskim mit Roskies az mir Yidishistn
kenen zikh nisht nor grundn in di shprakh aleyn - akhutz di lingvistn-
unzere dikhters un tuers hobn genutst a sakh shprakhn ober zay hobn
gehert tsu eyn folk.

I would concur with David Roskies remarks of Vol 6.285 with respect to
the concept of Ashkenazi studies as articulated by those at Ohio
State. What I would suggest with respect to Roskies' ordering of
Rashi, Musarists etc. is that his five part suggestion for what would
be required of such studies is lopsided unless it includes attention
to the thoughts, lives and contributions of the women of Ashkenaz. I
would add the works of many contemporary scholars of that subject and
of course Gluckl of Hameln. Such studies would not limit us to one
language, since the Ashkenazi people were and are quintessentially
multilingual and wrote and spoke in numerous languages.

Miriam Isaacs

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:47:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: ltrain@chass.utoronto.ca
Subject: Nivl-pe

Since itis well-documented and accepted that Yiddish by and large
retains the intensive/pointed forms of the bgd-kpt  letters in its
borrowings from Hebrew words and phrases (see Mordkhe Schaechter's
Laitish Mame-Loshn), the question becomes: how did nivl pe break from
the paradigm? After all, dibbik isn't ever attested as divik,
diber/diburim is never heard as div- etc.

Perhaps the answer lies in dissimilation, that is, the influence of a
certain letter  in a certain position of a word, on another similar
letter in the same word. Thus, to break up the string of bilabials
(b's) one (the first) is transformed to a v. This is not an uncommon
phenomenon. Shamash in hebrew becomnes shamis,
shorser<>shorsher<>sorser ('mediator', again from the hebrew), *popul-
becomes bovl, etc.

Les Train

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: raphael@cs.uky.edu
Subject: Yidishe lider

Khaver Bob Freedman hot gezamlt iber di yorn a gevaldike kolektsye
yidishe lider.  er hot zikh bamit arayntsushraybn ale protem in zayn
datn-baze. dort shteyt, lemoshl, der zinger, der mekhaber, di ershte
shure, der nomen fun lid.

letstns hot er geshonken di gantse kolektsye in a bibliotek (U Penn,
mistome), un mir geshikt disketn mit der datn-baze.  iz hob ikh
geleygt arayn in a datn-baze vos men ken adurkhbletern mit a
vebs-bleterer.

der vos farinteresirt zikh in yidishe lider ken zikh venden tsu

	http://www.cs.uky.edu/raphael-cgi-bin/yidsong.cgi

---

Bob Freedman has built over the years an enormous collection of
Yiddish song. He has kept a database with all sorts of details, such
as the singer, the author, the first line, and song title.

He recently gave the entire collection to a library (I think U Penn)
and sent me the database on diskettes.  I have made it available for
Web search.

If you are interested, follow the URL shown above.

Raphael Finkel

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 6.286

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