Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.052 September 6, 1998 1) What's in a name? (Norman Fruman) 2) viglid (Refoyl finkl) 3) Fogel (Susan Harlap) 4) Feygl and Fogel (Shaya Mitelman) 5) Fogel, bird or flower? (Michael Shimshoni) 6) Yiddish, Present and Past (Bernard Katz) 7) Yiddish, present and past (Ralph Feller) 8) Nokhamol gezindikt (Noyekh Miller) 9) attachments (Ronald Florence) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Norman Fruman Subject: What's in a name? Does anyone have an explanation as to why so many first names of 2nd generation Jewish boys are also the last names of British families, such as Morton, Morris, Murray, Irving, Herbert, Seymour, Sidney, Stanley . . . ? Is there a connection? Norman Fruman 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:01:29 -0400 (EDT) From: raphael@cs.uky.edu (Raphael Finkel) Subject: viglid in der yidish-vokh vos iz letstns geven in akord, n"y, hot di kehile geshribn tsuzamen a nay folks-lid. der forzitser hot gegebn etlekhe klolem: (1) es darf zayn a viglid, (2) der gram-plan darf zayn "abab", (3) dos lid darf onheybn mit a blik in der natur, (4) ergets-vu darf dos lid farglaykhn dos kind tsu a khaye, (5) tsum sof darf dos lid kukn in tsukunft. andersh hot der forzitser bloyz geshribn deyes fun dem oylem un geshtelt kashyes, vi "tsi past dos vort, oder tsi ken men gefinen epes sheners?", oder "vosere verter veln do gramen?" ot iz dos lid vos iz aroys nokh a 2 sho fun shverer arbet: in droysn blozt a shtarker vint, makht men tsu di shoybn. kirtser vert der tog atsind, es dremlen shoyn di toybn. ay, lyu lyu lyu, lyu lyu lyu, es dremlen shoyn di toybn. in drinen veynt dos eyf|ele, zingt men im a nigen. mider vert dos eygele, ligt dos kind antshvign. ay, lyu lyu lyu, lyu lyu lyu, ligt dos kind antshvign. morgn vet di zun oyfgeyn, veln toybn shpringen. feygl mayns, vest oykh oyfshteyn, vet dos hertsl zingen. ay, lyu lyu lyu, lyu lyu lyu, vet dos hertsl zingen. dem nigen dertsu ken men gefinen in http://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/yiddish/viglid.html Refoyl finkl 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:46:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Susan Harlap Subject: Fogel Ben Fogel chooses to take the prerogative of translating his name "Fogel" as "Bird". But surely his ancestors were smarter. "Violet" in hebrew is "sagol" from the root s-g-l which is also the root for "chosen". It isn't very far from s-g-l to f-g-l. Susan Harlap 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:43:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Serge Mitelman Subject: Feygl and Fogel. It looks that derivation of Feyge is controversial. Boris Feldblyum (Russian-Jewish Given Names, Avotaynu, 1998) suggests that it "may be derived from the German Voglein", with this view apparently having been drawn from the works of Osip A.Rabinovich ("O sobstvennykh imenakh evreyev", St.Petersburg, 1880-1888; "O Moshkakh i Yos'kakh", St.Petersburg, 1858) and Iser I.Kulisher ("Sbornik dlya soglasovaniya raznovidnostey imyon - bibleyskikh, natsional'nykh, talmudicheskikh, zaimstvovannykh i drugikh, upotre blyaemykh evreyami v Rossii", Zhitomir, 1911). Feldblyum adds that it may "also be kinnui from Tzipora" (p.59). In another place he lists Feyge among "European names adopted by Jews 1492-1781" (p.27). And it turns out to be typical of Lithuania, the Nort hwest (Vilna, Kovno, Grodno and Minsk provinces), and the Baltic provinces (Estland, Courland and Lyfland), pp.39-41. This book,however, is very controversial in its own right (8.006.7). As to Fogel, a brilliant Parisian onomastician Sasha Beider (A Dictionary of Jewish Surnames from Russian Empire, Avotaynu, 1993) states: "Fogel (Courland) - Vogel [German] bird; see also Fojgel. Fojgel' (Odessa) - {Fojgel'man (Fugel'man, Fukel'man), Fojgl'} from the given name Fojgel' ("foygl" in Yiddish, meaning "bird") {Fojgelis, Fajgel'son}; This given name is a calque of Zipporah (also see Tsiporin), as the latter is derived from "tsipoyr" [Hebrew] bird; Variant of this given name: Fogel' ("fogl" i n Yiddish, from the German Vogel, meaning "bird") {Fogel, Fogel', Fogel'son, Fogelevich (Pogelevich), Fogelovich}; Hypocoristic forms: Fojga ("fojge" in Yiddish) {Fojg}, Foglya ("fogle" in Yiddish) {Foglin}, Fajgel' ("fajgl" in Yiddish) {Fajgel', (Fajdel' , Fagel' (Fadel'), Fajgel'son)}, Fajga ("Fajge" in Yiddish) from Fajgel' {Fajgenzon, Fajgman, Pajgin}, Fajgush and Fajgusha ("fajgush" and "fajgushe" in Yiddish) from Fajgel' {Fajgush, Vajgushin (Vigushin, Viguchin)}, Fejgel' ("fejgl" in Yiddish) {Fejgel', Fejgel'man (Fejngel'man, Figel'man), Fejgel's, Fejgel'son (Fegel'son, Figel'son, Pigel'son), Fejgelev, Fejgelevich, Fejgeliovich,Fejgulevich, Fejgelovich, Fejgelis}, Fejglya ("fejglya" in Yiddish) from Fejgel' {Fejglin (Figlin, Viglin)}, Fejga ("fejge" in Yiddish) {Fejga, Fejgenson, Fejgenzon, Fejginson, Fejginzon, Fejgezon, Fejgson, Fejgin (Fejgen, Fegen, Fel'gin (Fil'gin), Pejgin, Vejgin), Fejginov (Fejgenov), Fejges, Fejgis, Fejgus (Fejgush, Fil'gus), Fejgman (Figman, Vejgman, Vigman), Fejgush ("fejgush" in Yiddish) {Fejgush (Fejgus)}, Fejgasya ("fejgasye" in Yiddish) {Vigasin (Vigsin), Vygasin}; foygl [Yiddish] clever fellow (figuratively)". The variants like "Fogel'nest" (Vogelnest [German] bird's nest) clearly suggest bird over violet. Antshuldikt mir - for so many names, but they do illustrate the point. Shaya Mitelman. 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:29:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Shimshoni Subject: Fogel, bird or flower? In Vol. 08.046 Ben Fogel Re the feygele discussion asks:"Admittedly some Fogels changed to "Peleg". I don't know why. Probably somebody can explain it to me." I can only guess. Many Israelis (me included) chose to change their names to Israeli ones. There are several ways people do it. Some try to have a Hebrew name which sounds somewhat like the former one. Others simply like the meaning of new name while others try to translate their old name into Hebrew, e.g Friedman (freedman) to Ben Horin etc. Also calling oneself after some ancestor is quite common. In the Peleg case another method may have been used, that of essentially keeping the letters of the old name or most of them and forming an anagram which gives a Hebrew word they like. Fogel would be written in Hebrew fe vav gimel lamed. Dropping the vav and interchanging the order of the last two letters gives pe lamed gimel which is Peleg. The fe becomes a pe by Hebrew grammar. Anyhow, this is my guess. Michael Shimshoni 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:31:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernard Katz Subject: Yiddish, Present and Past I was very struck by David Herskovic's comment on the "one vital ingredient which is missing in modern secular yiddish: yiddishkayt, the lifeblood of yiddish". I've a strong positive response to this point of view, as I believe would anyone who has read I.B. Singer's old-country stories in the original Yiddish (or better still has heard him *read* stories such as "Groys un kleyn"!). The Yiddish is so rich and infused with metaphors and similes that relate to Yiddishkeyt - religious and secular. I haven't read any of his new-world stories in the original, but I wouldn't be surprised if the same could be said of them. Of course the great "golden age" writers exhibit the same characteristics, but as a modern writer Singer continues to demonstrate the deep importance of Yiddishkeyt that makes Yiddish such a vital wonderful language. One of the things that my youngest daughter, Reena, is doing to help her learn Yiddish is to study the parshat ha'shavuah in Yiddish each week. This has helped make more accessible to her allusions and biblical references. b'shalom, Bernard Katz Guelph, Ontario 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:16:09 -0400 (EDT) From: RFeller563@aol.com Subject: Yiddish, present and past Re David Herskovic Aug 30 obversation: he is SO right. Yiddish today is great, but without the heimishe background of jewish life in America up to and including the '30s, it has an entirely different tam. We struggled, our parents did marvelous things to keep traditions, without the budget to do so. We all pitched in and helped. I remember coming home from school on a Friday, and while mama made the gefilte fish and an individual small challeh for each kid, I would get down on my knees and scrub the floors, then cover them with pages from the "Forverts." Thank G-d for having allowed us to perpetuate yiddish, but it sure "ain't the same". Ralph Feller 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 17:35:57 -0400 From: Noyekh Miller Subject: Nokhamol gezindikt Oops! I apologize to all Mendelistn for the free-standing post regarding Lingomail. I'd meant it for inclusion in Mendele but for arcane reasons that will interest no one it came to you in the form you saw. While I'm up, I may as well say first that I have no financial interest in Dvir (or in any other company whatsoever). And, second, that it was meant as a suggestion for use in _private_ correspondence, not as a way of communicating with Mendele. der meshiekh iz nokh nisht ongekumen. (veyst ir fun di 'ketznikes'? ikh vel efsher amol shraybn vegn zey.) Noyekh Miller 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:23:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Ronald Florence Subject: attachments Noyekh Miller writes: "This is a Multilingual RichText mail produced by LingoMAIL..." As admirable as the goal of sending email in yiddish characters might be, mailing lists, including Mendele, are meant to be platform indpendent. Some subscribers use PCs; others use Unix workstations, Macs, VMS terminals, and who-knows-what to read their email from the list. For that reason, it is an Internet convention that contributions to mailing lists are in portable ascii characters, or at least in platform-independent Internet mail formats, like PDF (Acrobat) or Postscript that can be read on all machines. However useful PC proprietary formats like LingoMAIL might be for private email, those formats are out of place on an Internet mailing list that reaches subscribers with all sorts of machine architectures. Ronald Florence Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.052 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html