Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.067 October 5, 1998 1) Forverts (Ellen Prince) 2) Forverts (Zachary M. Baker) 3) "Forvitz" (Allan E. (Avrom Yitzkhok) Blair) 4) Forverts (Andrey Bredsteyn) 5) Camp "No Worries" (Harold L. Orbach) 6) student looking for klezmer musicians to interview (Larry Rosenwald) 7) on the road again (Rukhl Eissenstat) 8) College Yiddish courses (Aviva Starkman) 9) saphir and khnyok(es) (sylvia schildt) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:40:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ellen F. Prince" Subject: "forverts" In Rick Turkel's reply to Kenneth Sipser's question about the word _forverts_, he says: "Huh? To me that spells "forverts," not "forvitz." New Yawka or not, that second resh should be pronounced in Yiddish." Actually, I believe there are dialects of Yiddish (Central Yiddish, for one) that drop postvocalic /r/, just as certain dialects of English (e.g. New York English) do. Ellen Prince 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:26:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Zachary Baker Subject: Forverts The Yiddish-language newspaper "Forverts" took its name directly from the German Social Democratic organ "Vorwaerts." The tes-tsadik ending in Yiddish reflects the orthography of the German model. The word "forverts" is a by-now venerable daytshmerizm meaning "forward" -- however, I doubt whether very many Yiddish speakers, now or in the past, ever used it except when referring to the newspaper. The correct Yiddish word for "forward" is "foroys" (which has also served as the title of a number of Yiddish periodicals). Zachary M. Baker 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:14:16 -0400 (EDT) From: ALLANBLAIR@aol.com Subject: "Forvitz" In answer to Koppel Sipser's question about why the Yiddish newspaper does not end in a tzadik instead of tess-samakh: About the spelling, vays Ikh nisht. However, the paper's name is Forverts. Even the way that you spelled it out, Koppel, it still comes out Forverts. Allan E. (Avrom Yitzkhok) Blair Columbus, Ohio 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 04:45:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrey Bredstein" Subject: Forverts Do hobn mir eygntlekh tsu tun mit dray shayles: farvos hot Ab Kan ongerufn zayn tsaytung mit a daytsh vort, farvos hot men oysgeleygt dos vort azoy un nit andersh, un viazoy redt men aroys dos vort? Koydemkol, dos daytshe vort "forverts" iz shoyn lang aroys fun der yidisher shprakh. Ir vet es gefinen in Harkavi, ober far Vaynraykhn iz es fe! (Der rusish-yidisher verterbukh git dos vort mit a tseykhndl "fareltert".) Der kosherer antonim far "tsurik" iz "foroys". Geven ober aza forshtelung ba di amolike yidn (afile tsvishn di fraynt), az daytshe verter klingen shener in farglaykh mit kugl-shmekndike yidishe verter... "Forverts" iz azoy eyropeish, azoy visnshaftlekh un eydl; un "foroys"... "foroys" toyg far Kasrilevke, ober nisht far Nyu-York. Vayter geyt der oysleyg. S'iz klor vi tog, az dos iz a nokhmakhung, vayl di daytshn shraybn "vorwarts" ("a" mit umlaut iz tomed an "ayen"). Un itst der aroysred. Beyde nuskhoes zaynen barekhtikt, "forverts" un "forvits". Mir hobn dokh "atsind", "atsinder" un "atsindert"; "vintshn" un "vintsheven" ua"v. Ikh hob gehert "forvits" fun Mordkhe Shekhter, un er veyst dokh vos er zogt... Andrey Bredsteyn 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Harold L Orbach Subject: Camp "No Worries" So far as I know and remember, Camp Nishtgedayget (my spelling based on my mother's pronounciation) wasn't spelled in English, but in Yiddish -- that was part of the point. I never saw a photo or any letter about it that wasn't in Yiddish. As most of the people who went were Polish or Russian Jews, spelling it in Litwak Yiddish would be strange. Perhaps an English ad did appear sometime in one of the "roite" English-language newspapers or journals, but it seems not very likely. Coincidentally, my family also hailed from Paterson as did many of their fellow campers. After all. Paterson was about one-fourth Jewish. Harold L. Orbach Manhattan, Kansas 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:11:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Rosenwald Subject: student looking for klezmer musicians to interview Hi - a student where I teach, majoring in music, wants to do a study of American klezmer music, and would be very interested in knowing whether any of the musicians who subscribe to MENDELE would be willing to talk with her, or have any ideas of other musicians she should get in touch with. If you're interested or have ideas, you could get in touch with me, or you could write her directly at rmorin@wellesley.edu (her name's Rebecca Morin). A sheynem dank, gmar khsime toyve, Larry Rosenwald 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:35:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Eissenstat@aol.com Subject: on the road again Altho I am not very musical, I am a Willy Nelson fan. The chorus line "on the road again, we're (?) on the road again" has 5 beats, then 6 beats and I think can be sung in Yiddish as tsurik tsum veg (with the tsu drawn out) mir geyn tsurik tsum veg oy,oy tsurik tsum veg... A gut gebentcht yor tsu alle, ayer kroyvim un khaverim. Rukhl Eissenstat 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:32:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Aviva Starkman Subject: College Yiddish courses Christian Ferman asks about colleges that teach Yiddish. I keep such a list at http://www.starkman.com/aviva/yiddish.html. It is quite incomplete, but it does have links to the web pages of the Yiddish departments at each university. Gmar chasimah tovah to all of Mendele-- Aviva Starkman 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pcreativa@charm.net (Sylvia Schildt) Subject: saphir and khnyok(es) Saphir -- I have heard it also attributed to sapir)n) the gemstone, not Shpier - part of the large family of Jewish names connected to the jewelry industry - a la silver, diamond, burstyn (amber), gold, stein, etc. The etymology of khnyok is fascinating. Another usage these days by some secular israelis is as a pejorative name for the ultra-orthodox, particularly those who come to israel and do not serve in the army or contribute to the gross national product. l'shone teyve ale medelyaner v'al kol yisroyl. sylvia schildt baltimore, maryland ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.067 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html