Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 08.126 February 8, 1999 1) Nouns and adjectives of nationality (Charles Jones) 2) yoshke-pandre (Mordkhe Schaechter) 3) Tumbalalaika (Fradle Pomerantz Freidenreich) 4) olevesholom (Lynda Kraar) 5) Huldah and Bor - "Whence the weasel?" (Gilad J. Gevaryahu) 6) khulda (Jeffrey Veidlinger) 7) Rozhinkes mit mandlen (Chana Mlotek) 8) tkhoyr (Shmuel Batt) 9) tkhoyr (Dovid Braun) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:39:00 -0500 (EST) From: Charles Jones Subject: Nouns and adjectives of nationality The recent discussion of geographical adjectives has raised a problem that's puzzled me for some time, namely, how to use nouns and adjectives of nationality, especially when they occur in predicate position. Just this morning I noticed, in a Forverts article about the next king of Jordan, a sentence beginning "Zayn froy iz a Palestiner, un dos ken ... " Since Weinreich gives "Amerikaner" and "Amerikanerin", I assume that the form "Palestinerin" must also exist. So why wasn't it used? I know, of course, that nouns and adjectives, when they occur in predicate position, often obey special rules. But is that what's going on here? It seems to me that there are at least two possibilities: 1. It's a mistake. Any adjective of the "Amerikaner" type, when used in predicate position, is treated as a noun, and therefore should be in its feminine (noun) form, like "Amerikanerin". 2. You have a choice. You may use either the noun "Palestinerin" or the always uninflected adjective "Palestiner", even when the subject is a woman. I assume that the existence of other alternative forms, such as "daytshke" and "daytshish(e)", must be causing problems for other learners of Yiddish as well, at least when it comes to predicate usage. So, could one of the grammarians on the list perhaps give us a lesson on this topic? Charles Jones Cambridge, Mass. 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:41:24 -0500 (EST) From: MSchaecht@aol.com Subject: yoshke-pandre In response to Gershon Friedlin (vol 8.123): I assume that his "etymology" of Yoshke-pandre was meant in jest. Pandre does not mean 'panther'. The Yiddish word for panther is: der panter, and has become part of the Yiddish zoologic terminology only in the 20th Century while yoshke-pandre is much older. Ber Borochov has called this kind of folk etymology disparagingly "besmedresh- etimologye", but in this case it would be a misnomer. Besmedresh-yidn hobn nisht geredt vegn keyn roymishe legyonern un nisht vegn Yezuses mame. Oyb di kloymershte "etimologye" fun Yoshke-pandre iz gemeynt vi a vits, iz es nisht keyn gerotener vits, gikher a Purim-etimologye, elehey Purim-toyre. Ayer Mordkhe Schaechter 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:27:37 -0500 (EST) From: Fradle Freidenreich Subject: Tumbalalaika Re Itsik Goldenberg's request for additional lyrics to Tumbalalaika (8.113): Here are lyrics which we also sing, in addition to the three usual verses. Some have slight variations of their own, indicated as alternatives in parenthesis. Vos is hekher fun a hoyz Un vos iz flinker fun a moyz Roych (A koymen) iz hekher fun a hoyz A katz iz flinker fun a moyz. Vos iz teefer fun a kvahl Un vos iz biterer vi gahl A hartz (a moyekh) iz tifer fun a kvahl Un toyt (libe, libe) iz biterer vi gahl. (Now come North American Zionist youth movement additions) Ven ven ven ven, zingt a khalutz Ven ven ven ven er iz in kibbutz Er arbet gantz shver Vil er dokh esn Zingt er a lid, er zol dos fargesn. Ven ven ven ven, zingt a shomer Ven ven ven ven er arbet gor shver Ven er arbet gor shver, vil er dokh esn Geyt er arayn in delekatessn. Fradle Pomerantz Freidenreich Tel Aviv 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:35:46 -0500 (EST) From: TelAviv893@aol.com Subject: olevesholom My mother was talking to me about a dear, departed friend named Tamara. She mentioned her name and then remarked, "olevesholom." Why would my mother use the male "alav ha'shalom" rather than the more appropriate "aleha ha'shalom?" My mother is from Lodz. In her circle of Holocaust survivors from Poland, the only blessing I've ever heard in conjunction with a deceased person has been the male form. Is this common? I'd like to hear from the experts. Lynda Kraar [Moderator's note: James Matisoff in his "Blessings, Curses, Hopes, and Fears" explains (p.54): ... oleho ha-sholoym ... is not easily pronounceable in Yiddish, where the whole expression is treated as a single word with strong primary stress on the penult -sho-, so that the first few syllables get weak stress. This has led to haplology of the two successive -ho-/-ha- syllables, yielding olehasholem, or even olesholem. The phonological similarity between this feminine formula and the corresponding masculine one has led to a breakdown of the distinction for many speakers, so that olevasholem can be used indiscriminately for a dead man or woman. Iosif Vaisman] 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:01:50 -0500 (EST) From: Gevaryahu@aol.com Subject: Huldah and Bor - "Whence the weasel?" Mikhl Herzog asks: "Whence the weasel?" in the story of Hulda and Bor since he played it himself, and the animal was really a cat. Well, the weasel was replaced by a cat in some of the variations of this story. For example, the Persian version has a cat and not a weasel. I believe that the replacement has to do with the relative difficulty of identification of the weasel animal as compared with the simplicity of the known cat. For citations see my post from in Mendele Vol 08.123. Gilad J. Gevaryahu 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Jeffrey Veidlinger" Subject: khulda Mikhl Herzog is correct in noting that Goldfadn's Shulamis and Avishalom make their oath before a cat (kats) and a well. In the original fable, however, the oath is made before a well and a "khulda." I believe that "khulda" is properly translated as a rat, but most English translations of the Talmudic legend have rendered it a weasel. It was for this reason that I used the term weasel. In fact, though, I think that Goldfadn was right--it should be a wildcat, as a weasel is unlikely to eat a human child. Jeffrey Veidlinger 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:06:07 -0500 (EST) From: EMlotek@aol.com Subject: Rozhinkes mit mandlen Regarding Rozhinkes mit mandlen, firstly, Avisholem does'nt sing it to Shulamis, but to himself. Regarding the lines of the railroads that will engulf the earth, Goldfaden admitted that it was anachronistic to mention such things in a Biblical play, however, he said, the audience liked it so much, that he left it in. The quote appears in a footnote to the play. Chana Mlotek 8)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:57:00 -0500 (EST) From: samuel batt Subject: "tkhoyr" Hugh Denman (Vol.08.125) is loyt mayn meynung 100% gerekht. Yiddish hot nit gedarft vartn oyf Rusish bikhdey zuleygn tzum vort "khoryok" a "t". Yiddish hot gehat a fartik poylish vort "tkhuzh" (transliterated). un di poylishe shprakh is inem Yiddish a sakh elter vi Rusih. Shmuel Batt 9)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:09:36 -0500 (EST) From: David S Braun Subject: tkhoyr Thanks to Hugh Denman for his correct discussion of the etymology of _tkhoyr_. The facts are also socio-historically enlightening: they indicate that, just as today, their have been skunks among Jews since the 16th century, if not earlier. Dovid Braun Cambridge, MA (in [too?] early anticipation of Purim) ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 08.126 Address for the postings to Mendele: mendele@lists.yale.edu Address for the list commands: listproc@lists.yale.edu Mendele on the Web: http://www2.trincoll.edu/~mendele http://metalab.unc.edu/yiddish/mendele.html