Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 1 no. 112
November 25, 1991
 
1) Negative concord (Ellen Prince)
2) Negative concord (Ellen Prince)
3) Feminine suffixes (Noyekh Miller)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 91 17:32:28 EST
From: Ellen Prince <ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu>
Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.109

[Dan Solomon writes:]

>In discussing negative concord, Ellen Prince takes 
>
>it ain't no cat can't get in no coop
>
>to mean:
>
>no cat can get in a coop, or: there's no cat that can get
in a coop.
>
>She cites an "it" for "there" substitution in partial
>explanation.  I have no authority on which to question this
>reading, but my "ear" takes the sentence to mean quite the
>opposite:
>
>if it can't get in a coop, then it's not a cat
>
>or: there isn't a cat that can't get in a coop.

let me take a wild guess-you're white. the reason that this
sentence has gotten so much attention in the linguistics
literature on black english and negative concord is
precisely that, to a white 'ear', it seems to mean just the
opposite of what was originally meant by the person who
uttered it and what was understood by the person it was
uttered to. believe me, in black english (aka african-
american english vernacular) it means 'no cat can get in a
coop' or there's no cat that can get in a coop.' honest.
the context was a guy who had a flock of pigeons on his
tenement roof and who built a coop for them to protect them
from cats, since 'it ain't no cat can't get in no coop.'
oh--in nonstandard WHITE english dialects that have
negative concord, the negative concord doesn't extend into
subordinate clauses, so a white negative concord speaker
would say 'there ain't no cat can get in a coop.' does that
sound better to your ear? as i said in my previous message,
tho lots of languages/dialects have negative concord, it
works somewhat differently in each one.

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 91 17:40:08 EST
From: Ellen Prince <ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu>
Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.111

>Does German have nicht kein or just kein?-- herschel basser

to my knowledge, bavarian german is the only dialect of
german that has negative concord ('nicht kein'). i assume
by 'german' you mean standard german ('new high german'),
so the answer is 'just kein'.

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91
From: nmiller@trincc
Subject: Feminine suffixes

I recently referred to a neighbor who is married to a
judge, and the word I used was /judgekhe/.  Since it
seemed to come out "naturally", I have two questions.

1.  In my view, the word is pure Yiddish.  For good
measure let's include another term I thought of in
writing this note: /komilfonitse/, a word I've never
heard but for all I know may be used every day in
Belleville.  Am I right in thinking so?

2.  In any event, what was the rule I followed in
adding the /khe/?  And for that matter why did I follow
a different rule in the case of /nitse/?

And while you're up:

It would be most helpful if the sharfe kep on this list
would clarify the suffix issue, especially as it ap-
plies to women, for the rest of us.  Here are some
sample questions.

1.  Is it correct to conclude that /in/ (bekerin,
shnayderin, shusterin, BUT rebbetsin) is losing ground
to /ke/?  I can't think of any New World Yiddish that
uses the final /in/ (butcherke, nextdoorike, even
shnayderke and shusterke).  Does /ke/ equal /ge/? 
Since /ke/ is also a diminutive  (kleyninke), is its
use in referring to women belittling?  Or would it be
better to say that it's a _familiar_ suffix and used as
a social leveller?  Hence benkerke and presidentke.

2.  What of the /te/?  It too seems to be replacing
some older words or at least sharing space with them 
(shokhente as well as shkheyne) but in other cases it
would appear to be old (gabete, khazente).  Is it used
only with Hebrew nouns (areyliste)?

3.  I assume that /(n)itse/ is Slavic and new, and used
mostly with Slavic terms (plimenitse). [But which makes
that much more delicious a word like kolboynitse]. 
Since its male counterpart appears to be the suffix of
choice in coining Yinglish words, why is not /(n)itse/
used as well?   Who ever heard of a nogoodnitse? 

Finally, once we've settled all these questions, why is
nogoodnik Yinglish but judgekhe Yiddish?

Yours unto the 22nd century,

Noyekh

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End of Mendele Vol 1.112