Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 1 no. 135
January 5, 1992
 
1) Various (Mikhl Herzog)
2) Various (Moishe-Nussen Etyan)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 92  20:08 EST
From: ZOGUR@CUVMB.BITNET
Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.133

Oy   Ellen, you really ARE so elegant.
 
Bob Goldberg: I think you're right. Wherever "alternate"
forms (synonyms?) occur in an individual's speech, s/he
probably invests them with some social or stylistic
differences. It's probably something that should be studied
separately for every case and every individual. Other
examples in Yiddish are nit/nisht, ken/kon, alternate
plural types, etc. Sometimes, the two forms in question
were originally regionally differentiated: nit is clearly
the northeas tern form, nisht prevails elsewhere. I use
both and it might take some inmtro spection to determine
which I use when, and why. I prefer geven as further from
German than gevezn, but I use both. I use zenen in speech
but I think I write only zaynen. A worthy topic for an MA
thesis. Mikhl.

RE: Mendele Vol 1.134

Moishe   Nusn: Listen more carefully to the native speakers
of Alsatian Yiddish. Don't they pronounce, e.g., initial t
and d the same way, as something more or less in
between--so that talis (prayer shawl) and dalis 'poverty'
'sound' the same? What city are you in? Are you interested
in Alsatian Yiddish?
 
How about trying your hand, now, at the etymology of
gra(y)zn and an the origin of the expression noyekh mit
zibn gra(y)zn

RE: Mendele Vol 1.132

Bob Goldberg: I'm glad there's no broygez. Your message is
long and your queries (challenges) numerous. Your patience
will be appreciated.

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 92 10:53:23 GMT
From: me@SUZUKA.U-STRASBG.FR
Subject: RE:  Mendele Vol 1.133, 132

To Ellen Prince:
 
I don't know what sense "dreydl, while familiar" has for
you. For me, the Draidl is what children play with at
`Hanikeh and _my_ folk etymology makes it derive from
'draien' (german 'drehen'?), 'to turn' -- which is exactly
what you do to run it. Never heard about 'di reydl' which
I would take to be the more folk-etymology of the two, but
as you say it is in blissful ignorance of fact.
 
My congratulations to your Father for Nebekh. By the way,
have the netters heard the folk-etymology of 'yekeh'
current in Israel? -- it is an acronym for 'yehudi kshe
havanah'; and they sure are!
 
To Mikhl Herzog:
 
your comments about 'lokshen' are very interesting; however
I am a native speaker of Hungarian and haver never heard
anything like it. As for 'graz' it seems to me the standard
word for a spelling-mistake. What do you mean by etymology?
-- the Mittel-Deutsch origin? As for noie`h mit 7 grazen
it's obvious -- but again one man's medicine... Happy New
Year to you too -- and well over the Fast.
 
To Bob Goldberg
 
I would read 'azoyner' to rhyme with 'sheyner' only in
Litvish ('azeyner'), since they pronoumce the `hoilem as
'ey', but not being a Litvak I might be mistaken.

Since I am new to the list, I don't know what the
discussion about the 'ayin' (or, in my notation, "`ayin")
was, but as I said in my message (vol1.134, 2) I know many
people here in Strasbourg (Sepharads, of course, myself
excepted) who _do_ pronounce the `ayin: I am trying to get
my kids to pronounce it the right way -- and I have
succeded with my 2nd one, whom I taught to read Ivrith
(but alas, not the 1st one who learnt in Talmud Torah in
Fontenay aux Roses, a Paris suburb where we used to live).
As for Arabic, it has _three_ guttural stops; one of them
corresponds to the Gimel without a dagesh that the
Teimanim used to pronounce as a near-g guttural stop
(whence the G in Gaza).
 
For 'bal-mitsve' vs 'bar-mitsve' just listen to a Japanese.
Again, a universal phonetic phenomenon that people on the
list attribute to Yiddish; again I am not the one
qualified to explain these phenomena, since there are
professional linguists on the list. Analoguous comments to
'bubby' vs 'bubbe'...
 
Ok that's more than enough fighting wind-mills. Zait mir
gezint
 
==Moishe Nussen

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End of Mendele Vol 1.135