Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 1 no. 144
January 23, 1992
 
1) Visn/kenen and eyn hore (Ellen Prince)
2) Yiddish text (Raphael Finkel)
3) Bar and bal (Melekh Viswanath)
4) Various (Noyekh Miller)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 10:50:07 EST
From: Ellen Prince <ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu>
Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.143

>From: gensym!mhd@harvard.harvard.edu
>Subject: visn v. kenen  &  lebm v. voinen
>
>I've been noticing in talking to people who came in the
>last few years from the former USSR to Boston that they
>"confuse" visn (to know a fact) and kenen (to know, as in
>to be aquainted with, and also to know a language).  The
>same thing happens with lebm (to live, as in to be alive)
>and voinen (to live, as in to dwell).

if i remember correctly, know (someone) and know (that...)
have the same stem in russian, whereas know (a language)
has a different stem. so russian cuts it up differently
from yiddish, a plausible cause for confusion in
bilinguals. similarly, live/voynen and live/lebn have the
same stem in russian, as i recall.

>From: Raphael Finkel <raphael@ms.uky.edu>
>Subject: eyn hore?
>
>A vilde batref:  "keyn eyn hore" hot nit keyn "nit" vayl
>"eyn" hert zikh oys vi "eyn" vos meynt aleyn "nit" of
>loshn-koydesh.  Gramatish iz dos nit, ober efshr?

except that the 'eyn' here is from hebrew ayin 'eye'.
nice try.

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 19:19:28 GMT
From: Raphael Finkel <raphael@ms.uky.edu>
Subject: Yiddish text

I have a working, pretty good version of a package that
allows you to type a file of Yiddish in
Yivo-transliteration and get a TeX output file (a .dvi
file) that can be converted to postscript (and I assume to
other things) and print.  It can also be used for Hebrew
(with all vowels), although that is not its intent.

This package uses the hclassic font developed by Joel M.
Hoffman and the ivd2dvi program that comes with recent TeX
distributions.  I can make the whole thing (including font
and ivd2dvi, which I had to modify) available for anyone
who wants.  It runs on Unix.

I don't read this newsgroup, so I will not see replies sent
to the group.  I can be reached at raphael@ms.uky.edu or
raphael@ukma.bitnet.

If there is enough demand, I will make a public ftp file on
s.ms.uky.edu
called
pub/unix/yiddishtex.tar.Z

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1992 14:21 EDT
From: VISWANATH@DRACO.BITNET
Subject: RE: Mendele Vol 1.142

first of all, I would like to express my appreciation to
Moishe-Nussen. Although I am unused to his transliteration,
it does have the benefit of somehow bringing the scene
alive in my mind!

Second, vus meynt noyekh?

What would you suggest as an appropriate methodology for
coining new yiddish words?  re bal shmoys and bal oyfes,
they sound more like somebody with a lot of names and a
birdkeeper respectively.  Are not bar and bal restricted in
how they may be used to coin new words? melekh

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1992
From: nmiller@trincc
Subject: Various

Mark David:

I'm not absolutely sure I understand your question, but
here's what I think is going on.

1. As you say, voynen un lebn(1) translate as dwell and
live.  Men lebt in a land un me voynt in a hoyz.

2. Lebn(2) is the same as the less-used nebn (cf. ModG
neben) and means near.

3. Lebm may be a contraction of lebn(2) dem.  Mayn shviger
voynt lebm Rebben.

Query 1:

Zog ikh maynem a shokhen: "zetst zikh avek".  Makht er (dos
iz take haynt gesheyen) "vos gor avek?  me darf zogn 'zetst
zikh anider'".  Zog ikh to zikh: mistome a Poylisher.
Ikh'll nokhfregn bay di ayzerne kep.

Would Mikhl or someone please sort this out?

Query 2:

I was thinking about Glikel Hamel's Yiddish the other day
but when I went to look for it I found only the modern
Yiddish 'translation' in the Musterverk series.  So where
did I read the original?  Is it in a collection?

Melekh:

In what sense are the bal/bar constructions restricted?  If
I can say bal guf and bal agule, surely I'm not limited to
the half above the gartel.  What I'm after is a bit of
playfulness and even self-mockery.  That makes Yiddish
Yiddish.

Noyekh
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End of Mendele Vol 1.144