Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 1 no. 183 February 21, 1992 1) Klafte (Berl Hoberman) 2) Skotsl kumt (Meylekh Viswanath) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1992 11:56 EST From: Robert D Hoberman Subject: Klafte I might not be the only Aramaicist reading Mendele, but no one else spoke up, so here goes. It's a good bet that Yiddish klafte with its pejorative meaning is indeed from Aramaic, because in Jewish Palestinian Aramaic (according to Sokoloff's dictionary) the masculine kalba meant 'dog, base person, male prostitute'. Very likely the corresponding feminine had similar senses, which just happen not to appear in the extant texts. But how was it pronounced? We're all too aware that Yiddish was pronounced differently in different times and places, and that different words had different meanings and uses. Why should Aramaic have been any different? For Yiddish, we turn to different speakers and ask them, how do you say this, and what does that mean. You can't do that for ancient Aramaic. Information as to how Aramaic was pronounced at any particular time and place in antiquity is hard to come by, because it was normally written without any vowel diacritics (pasakh, komets, etc.) The most consistent notation of vowels exists in Syriac, an Aramaic language used by Middle Eastern Christians, davke, and in Syriac the word is attested as kalbta or kalbtha. But it is attested only in the meaning 'forceps', not in the sense of 'female dog' etc. I don't know of any evidence (in dictionaries, etc.) as to the vowels of our word in ancient Jewish manuscripts. So where did Bob Werman get the idea that it should "properly" be pronounced kalb'ta? There is some logic to it, considering that the masculine is kalba, but on the other hand the "absolute state" is klev, and compare the Hebrew diminutive klavlav 'puppy'. Forgive me, Bob, if I'm wrong, but I bet you looked in Jastrow's Dictionary, where it is given as kalbta (kalbso). Where did Jastrow get that idea? From a SYRIAC dictionary, without a doubt. Jastrow also mentions the "traditional pronunciation" klavta, which means simply that he heard yeshiva-trained people -- no doubt Yiddish speakers -- say it that way. Incidentally, Jastrow mentions a few places in Rabbinic literature where the word appears, most of them fairly obscure, except for one: Talmud Bavli, Rosh Hashana 4a, i.e. one of the beginning pages of a commonly studied volume. Without having looked up that blat, I'd guess that's precisely the place Yiddish got the word from. By the way, there are still people -- Christians, Jews, and a few Muslims and Gnostics, from various parts of the Middle East, mainly Kurdistan -- who speak Aramaic, and have continuously since ancient times. In modern Aramaic the word is pronounced kalibta or kalipsa, in different dialects (yes, in some the "soft" taf is pronounced s, like in Ashkenazi Hebrew!) This is support for an earlier pronunciation something like kalbtha (th as in English "thing"). It's reasonable to assume that in most varieties of ancient Aramaic the word was something like kalbtha, but it's certainly not impossible that it was klavta someplace, sometime. A similar change took place in the word for 'daughter', ancient Aramaic bartha, modern brata. I never know how to answer when someone asks how a Hebrew word SHOULD be pronounced. If you intend to talk with Israelis, pronounce it the way Israelis do, no problem. If you're davening, and you intend to talk to the Rebeynesheleylem (I don't want to privilege Israeli, or Yivo, pronunciation), pronounce it the way your grandfather did. But that's not what the questioner means, most often. He wants to know the REAL pronunciation. As pronounced by whom? Meyshe Rabeynu? (Well, his speech wasn't so hot, so let's say his brother Arn.) Shleyme hamelekh? Rebi Yehude Ha-Nosi, of the last generation of native Hebrew speakers? Rashi? The Vilner Geyen? Each of these pronounced Hebrew differently, and there's a limit to how precisely we can find out about how they did speak. What about modern Middle Eastern Jews? Iraqi? Moroccan? Persian? Yemenite? Which town in Yemen? There's no REAL pronunciation, only various sources of information, lines of reasoning, sometimes conflicting conclusions. About some most Semitists would agree, about others not. Why expect it to be simple? Berl 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1992 14:18 EDT From: VISWANATH@DRACO.BITNET Subject: skotsl kumt Skotsl kumt: I believe some time ago, there was a discussion of the phrase 'skotsl kumt'. I just saw something in Harkavy, which I don't think was brought up at that time; di dozike diskusye, if memory serves revolved around cats. Harkavy says that this term is used as a greeting mainly for women; he derives it from 'Gots will' and says that this refers to the brokhe that women say in the morning 'she osoni kirtsono', i.e. according to his will. Sounds very plausible to me. Meylekh ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol 1.183