Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 3.166 December 15, 1993 1) A dertel (Moshe Waldoks) 2) Gehakte tchainiks (Abe Igelfeld) 3) Thanks to Ellen Prince (Martin Davis) 4) Aunt-uncle/geven-gevezn (Shleyme Axelrod) 5) Words spelled OYF (Meyer David) 6) Tante-mume (Debra Biasca) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Dec 13 16:24:00 1993 From: WALDOKS@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU Subj: A dertel Ikh hob amol geshpilt dertel mit mayn foter, alov hasholem. It is akin to a kind of bridgre and rummy. There was a trump card- it would be wonderful if someone could help jog my memory about this. I loved the game- words that shpilt zich. mit kovid Moshe Waldoksbimen 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Dec 13 17:49:03 1993 From: igelfeld@math.toronto.edu Subject: Gehakte Tchainiks = Crackpots Perhaps some of the ethnolinguists out there in Tuniyadevke can come up with another example of a linguistic community in which people who could do with some lessons before they apply for their poetic licenses pontificate with such nonchalance. Poor Weinreich, to get dragged into a debate on the basis of an introductory textbook. "See Spot run. Look, look." And if he was a little extreme on Germanicisms, is that a reason to pretend that one writes or speaks Yiddish by mixing in a few non-Germanic words into German? Es platzt poshet (or pushet, but not, in this context, einfach) di gal. Is anybody else out there having a tantrum besides me? Abe Igelfeld 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Dec 14 10:48:16 1993 From: davism@turing.cs.nyu.edu (Martin Davis) Subject: Thank you Ellen Prince for a clear, intelligent discussion. in homage i sign, martin davis 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Dec 14 22:09:23 1993 From: Seymour Axelrod Subject: aunt-uncle/geven-gevezn 1. Aunt & uncle: My litvishe tate-mame and their siblings all used tante and onkl. Mume/mime and feter were unknown bay undz in der Brooklyner heym, where anyone accusing us poshete layt of using affected germanisms would have been laughed at as a fool. 2. The recent discussion of leyenen/lezn makes me wonder about geven/gevezn. U. Weinreich's dictionary has only "iz geven" for the past of zayn, though it gives "gevezn" as an adjective meaning "former, past, ex-...". Is gevezn as a verb considered daytshmerish by some? The Yidisher Ortografisher Vegvayzer (Guide to the Standardized Yiddish Orthography, 1961), compiled by Mordkhe Schaechter for a committee including, among others, both M. and U. Weinreich, endorses "geve(z)n" as both legitimate. (A visitor from Israel told me a couple of years ago that in the quest for academic advancement there, it's good to be able to have G.I.A. on one's vita. "G.I.A.?" I asked. "Gevezn in Amerike," he explained.) 3. Anyway, why is the daytshmerizm so called? Why not just plain daytshizm? Does the -mer- make the term more disdainful? Shleyme Axelrod 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Dec 14 23:25:35 1993 From: mhd@world.std.com (Mark H David) Subject: Words spelled OYF -- Schaechter's Spin I thank Reyzl and Mikhl for their input on OYF words. I will try to keep the discussion alive by asking for any comments you might have on what's written on this topic in _Yiddish Tsvey_, (Yiddish II: Intermediate and Advanced Yiddish Textbook), by Mordkhe Schaechter, published in 1993 by the League for Yiddish, page 429: di prepositsie _oyf_ vert fun geboyrene yidish-reders aroysgeredt [AF] in mizrekh-yidish (lite un ukrayine), un [OF] in tsentral-yidish: [AFN TISh/OFN TISh]. in der sovetisher ortografye shraybt men es take _af_. der konverb _oyf_.. vert in di natirlekhe reyd fun geboyrene yidish-reders aroysgeredt [UF] in tsofn-yidish, [IF] in dorem-mizrekh-yidish, [OF/OUF] in tsentral-yidish. in sovetishn yidish shraybt men es take _uf_.. . azoy oykh _aroyf_.. : in tsofn-yidish redt men es aroys [ARU'F], in dorem-mizrekh-yidish [ARI'F], in tsentral-yidish [ARO'F, ARO'UF] un in sovetishn yidish vert es geshribn _aruf_.. . Meyer David 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed Dec 15 01:49:37 1993 From: BIASCA DEBRA HALPERIN Subject: Tante-Mume In my family, we only heard "tante," regardless of the generation of the aunt/great-aunt. Mikhl Hertzog has said his my family hails from Volhynia. I have one more aunt who speaks Yiddish (she's about 80 years old) and she uses both terms to refer to herself. Actually, I don't know where she's from--she's an aunt by marriage. Debra Halperin Biasca ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 3.166 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a Subject: line. 2. Sign your article. Send submissions/responses to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Other business: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files