Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.238 December 15, 1994 1) Trilled 'r'/curses (Yude Rozof) 2) The [RR] proposal (Zellig Bach) 3) Vi got in Frankraykh (Michael Shimshoni) 4) Thieves' Latin or Kokhemer loshn (Ruben Frankenstein) 5) Hob und bin (Bert Steinberg) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 22:02:19 -0500 (EST) From: jrosof@sas.upenn.edu Subject: Trilled 'r'/curses How widespread is the rolled r in Yiddish? Is it found in South German Yiddish as in coterritorial German dialects? Does it vary regionally in Eastern Europe? Re: speech impediment: are some people physically incapable of rolling their r's or is this merely a question of upbrin- ging? I have noticed that a rolled r is common in the Yiddish of recent immigrants from Eastern Europe. Is the current high frequency of the rolled r in this group attributable to interference from the Slavic tongues or does this reflect authentic traditions? Another theme. Yiddish has been a hobby of mine for quite a few years now, and I _still_ know close to zero Yiddish curses. I know "gey kakn afn yam," "kak zikh oys!" and "a shtik drek!" I also know "a pisher, a pots, a shmok, a tsatske". I imagine one can by analogy say "pisht zikh oys!" That about completes my knowledge of Yiddish curses. I have heard enough "ir zolt vaksn vi a tsvibl mitn kop in d'rerd!" I want to see some mamoshesdik shpet-loshn, some real Yiddish vulgarity on a par with German Scheisse, English sh--, f---, etc. No hyphens in Yiddish please! Is Yiddish really such a pristine language? All shmo and beytsim? Lozt hern khevre! Git (shpet) loshn! Yude Rozof 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 22:28:54 -0500 From: zellig@aol.com Subject: The [RR] proposal I greatly appreciate Anno Siegel's comment (4.236,2) about my [RR] proposal, and fully agree with the logic that the [RR] flag, for Review Requested, be published with the text proper and *not* deleted. No shame attaches to anyone acknowledging, even publicly, that he or she does not know a language they did not learn, but wish to learn. The [RR] tag, at the beginning of the message, will serve as a useful indicator that the text has been reviewed prior to publication, and (I quote) "would thus make Mendele an even more valuable instrument in learning (or picking up) some Yiddish." Zellig Bach 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 11:02:36 +0200 From: mash@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il Subject: Vi got in Frankraykh Alan Astro asked: >Also, how German do people feel "gliklekh vi got in frankraykh" is? Does >it have real yikhes in Yiddish? I know that expression (in German, with German spelling) with a minor difference. Instead of "gliklekh" it says "lebt". I took it to refer to the comfortable life and good food of France. Simply, leading a pleasant life. Michael Shimshoni 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 11:26:47 +0100 (MEZ) From: frankens@mibm.ruf.uni-freiburg.de Subject: Thieves' Latin or Kokhemer loshn Eve Jochnowitz [Vol. 4.229] asked about _rotwelsch_. My answer may have been too short. This vernacular of the vagabonds in German lands (similar idioms must be found in Roman languages and in Anglo-Saxon as well) goes back to the 13th century. One of the first studying and writing about it was Martin Luther. Salcia Landmann published in her popular book about Yiddish a small dictionary of this language, just to show the high percentage of hebrew and aramaic words in it, of which quite a lot changed or shifted their meaning. The best source and dictionary of this language was published by Sigmund Wolff, the author of the dictionary of Yiddish (just the words of german origin). Besides the oldest name _rotwelsch_ the language has also a name that stems from Yiddish: _kokhemer loshn_, a German name: _kundenschall_ = sound of the well-informed, and a gipsy name _jenische sprache_ = from the gipsy word "dsan" - to know. It is this language which served as a canal for quite a lot of idioms from the Hebrew through the Yiddish or directly into the colloquial German, like the word Pleite (playte) from the Hebrew "pleyta" for bankruptcy. Ruben Frankenstein 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 09:06:12 -0500 From: mate1920@aol.com Subject: Hob und bin Our Yiddish havorah has been discussing the proper use of the verbs hob and bin for months now -- since many recall using one or the other for the same verbs in the past tense. Is there a rule of grammar which governs here -- or is it purely a dialect variation. Any help is appreciated. Bert Steinberg ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.238 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. Anonymous ftp archives available on: ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files Archives available via gopher on: gopher.cic.net Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu