Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 4.245 December 22, 1994 1) Zhe (Rick Gildemeister) 2) Syntax of _zhe_ (Ellen Prince) 3) Leo Fuld's language (Rick Gildemeister) 4) Bargoens (Marion Aptroot) 5) Malorusish (Bob Rothstein) 6) Barkhes (Bob Rothstein) 7) Klezmer music (Hope Ehn) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 11:13:18 EST From: eeglc@cunyvm.bitnet Subject: Zhe I liked what Yude Rozof and Arre Komar shared with us on the little particle that is so important as Arre said, to soften the tone of a statement. In Peru, where my family hails from, we used to say "no mas". Pase no mas (come on in). When my father moved to Spain he quickly learned that it has the opposite effect and implies impatience and "get it over with". Anyway, this is a Yiddish list not a Spanish one. What I wanted to add to the discussion is the repetition of the tess found in some areas for the 2nd person plural imperative. There is a wonderful book by Ghitta Sternberg issued in 1984 by Pergamon Press and called: Stefanesti: Portrait of a Romanian Shtetl. It's a very charming book; at one point Sternberg discusses songs people sang (this is not a yizkor book, but a scholarly ethnography put together from the author's memories). One was Papirosn, and the words used are: Koyftshet, koyftshet papirosn, doubling the tess. Herts nokh a maase. I worked with a woman who was born here; one parent came from a town with a name something like Berisifske; the other I don't recall, but both were in Lithuania. Her Yiddish was native and flawless; she went from kindergarten to the 12th grade in Workmen's Circle schools, classes in Yiddish. One "flaw" her Yiddish had was the occasional greys instead of groys, but that's very common. However, one day she used sabesdikn loshn! But only one word: z(h)e. I explained to her that it was zhe in the klal shprakh but she wouldn't hear of it. It was ze, not zhe, un fartik! Rick Gildemeister 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 12:10:50 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: syntax of _zhe_ so far as i know, _zhe_ cliticizes only onto imperative verbs and wh-words (v-words), with one exception, _nu_ (_nu-zhe_), which can presumably be explained as having been borrowed in toto, alongside of both _nu_ and _zhe_. questions for fluent native yiddish speakers or linguists who've researched the topic and, for the last question, fluent native slavic speakers or linguists who've researched the topic: 1. is this correct? is there anything else that _zhe_ can cliticize onto? for example, _zhe_ seems syntactically similar to english _the hell_, e.g. _get the hell out of here_, _who the hell said that?_, but the latter can occur on (some!) finite verbs as well, e.g. _i got the hell out of there_. can _zhe_? 2. can _zhe_ occur with a 'double imperative', e.g. _gey veys_, _kumt est_? and, if so, on which verb? (_kumtzhe est_? _kumt estzhe_? _kumtzhe estzhe_? the first sounds a little funny to me but maybe ok while the second two sound very weird but i can't trust my intuitions, alas.) 3. can _zhe_ cliticize onto a v-word in situ, e.g. echo questions like _du host gegesn VOSZHE_? 4. what about multiple v-word fronting? which v-word can get _zhe_? (e.g. _zi veyst nit verzhe mit vemen es shlogt zikh_, _zi veyst nit ver mit vemenzhe es shlogt zikh_, _zi veyst nit verzhe mit vemenzhe es shlogt zikh_. again, the first sounds a little funny to me but maybe ok while the second two off the wall, ober vos veys ikh?) 5. what is the syntax of slavic _zhe_? same? different? a sheynem dank ellen prince 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 13:47:11 EST From: eeglc@cunyvm.bitnet Subject: Leo Fuld's language I want to thank Marion Aptroot for her reply to my query about Leo Fuld. He's an important Yiddish singer -- he was faithfully played at all hours when WEVD had extensive Yiddish music shows. One classic song (Fuld takes all the classics and does them his way, almost with the plaintive voice of a little boy, which I find very endearing) he did was "Oyf der Sudenyu", which he pronounced as "Oyf de-ne-sidenyu". It is definitely not a dialect I had ever heard. The *het ikh* I knew existed, that it could be found in some Yiddish dialects. So when I heard it I knew it wasn't the German "hatte". Anyway, thanks loads, Marion. Rick Gildemeister 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 15:21:08 -0500 (EST) From: aptroot@husc.harvard.edu Subject: Bargoens On Wed, 21 Dec 1994 (Vol. 4.244) Jeff Zucker wrote about _bargoens_ [barkhUns], the Dutch thieves' language. Hartog Beem wrote a book about Dutch words of Hebrew and Yiddish origins entitled _Uit Mokem en de Mediene. Joodse woorden in Nederlandse omgeving_ ("From Mokum [the big city] and the Mediene [the small provincial towns and villages]. Jewish words in Dutch surroundings." Assen: Van Gorcum, 1974). He also includes terms of Semitic origin which entered the language through _bargoens_. The book includes an introduction in which Beem describes with the way he thought these words entered the Dutch language. When one looks at a Bargoens dictionary, one realises that the Semitic component of the thieves' language is very modest. I would like to propose an end to the discussion on the topic of thieves' language. This is a forum on Yiddish. Marion Aptroot 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:46:22 -0500 (EST) From: rar@slavic.umass.edu Subject: Malorusish In connection with the discussion of the term _malorusish_: The name _Malorossiia_ for Ukraine has its origins in Byzantine church terminology of the 13th-14th century. The Russian Tsar Aleksei Mikhailovich, however, seems to have begun the official state use around 1654 (after Ukraine joined Russia), when he designated himself ruler of "Great and Little Russia." _Mal/opolska_ ("Little Poland"), on the other hand, is the historical name for the region around Cracow, as opposed to _Wielkopolska_ ("Great Poland"), the region around Poznan. The two terms are usually explained as mistranslations of the Latin _Minor Polonia_ and _Maior Polonia_, respectively, meaning "junior" and "senior" Poland (since the Polish state traces its origins to Wielkopolska [10th c. CE], with Cracow later becoming the royal capital). Bob Rothstein 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:46:56 -0500 (EST) From: rar@slavic.umass.edu Subject: Barkhes Regarding the discussion of whether _barkhes_ belongs to _milkhiks_ or not: Mildred Grosberg Bellin's _The Jewish Cook Book_ (NY: Bloch, 1944) has a recipe for "butter barches" and one for "barches." The latter "are to be used for a meat meal and are made in the same manner as butter barches, omitting the milk and butter," which is to be replaced with "water and a little shortening of dripping or rendered fat or a vegetable oil." I don't know how traditional or "authentic" the recipes are. The 1944 edition of the cookbook is the third printing of a 1941 revision of a book by the same title, which, according to the publisher, had sold more than a hundred thousand copies. The author of the revision (MGB) is described as "a graduate of Smith College" and "the wife of a physician," who "uses her own kitchen as a laboratory where she combines the knowledge of modern American cooking with old Jewish dishes..." Bob Rothstein 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 20:14:03 +0001 (EST) From: ehn@world.std.com Subject: Klezmer Music (Derivation chart) Having made this chart at the request of a fellow musicologist, I decided to post it on the list for the perusal of anyone else who would find it useful. If you are going to print it, be sure to use a *monospace* font (such as "courier"), and *don't* give any "justify" commands. THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE KLEZMER REPERTORY (c) 1984, 1994 by Hope Ehn Local Synagogue Folk Modes Music | \ / | | \ / | | \ / | | \ / | | Chassidic | | Compositions | | | | | | } Traditional Eastern European Yiddish | Folk Music | \ | \ | \ | Early Yiddish Other Popular | Music Theatre Music of the | (19th c. Europe) Ragtime Jazz 1920s & 1930s | | \ \ | / | | \ \ | / | | \ \ | / | | \ \ | / Traditional Early U.S. Yiddish Yiddish Yiddish Theatre and Folk Theatre Recording Music Music Music This is an ASCII version of the chart printed in "The Klezmer Recorder Band," a collection of (untexted) arrangements of Klezmer music for four recorders that I published in 1984. There is also a second (untexted) book of similar arrangements, "The Lower East Side Recorder Band," published in 1988. Both collections are still in print. For purchasing information, send inquiries to Von Huene Workshop, . (Do *not* send credit-card numbers by E-mail; messages pass unencrypted through many computers.) I am presently working on two more collections of Jewish music arranged for recorders, with alternate parts for string quartet. "Yom Tov: The Jewish Holiday Songbook" will contain songs with Hebrew and/or Yiddish text for the Sabbath, the Festivals, and patriotic holidays. "Sefarad: The Ladino Song Book" will contain songs from the Ladino repertory, with Ladino texts. I hope to finish these books before Passover. When they are ready, I will announce them on this list. Hope Ehn ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 4.245 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) A Table of Contents is now available via anonymous ftp, along with weekly updates. 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